Please take all imapmove-related mail there. =A0That will be= the official mailing list for the new working group when it is chartered.<= /div>

Barry

--e0cb4efe32a2080b2704c24aae62-- From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Tue Jun 12 12:49:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07B6621F86E3 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:49:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gbx-foa4PkF5 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55C9021F86D8 for ; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 12:49:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 42F2AF8EAFF; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:49:01 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1339530540-16486-16485/10/20; Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:49:00 +0000 Message-Id: <4FD79D32.7000509@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 21:49:06 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: imapext@ietf.org References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 18:41:01 -0700 Subject: Re: [imapext] imapmove discussions go to X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Jun 2012 19:49:03 -0000 Do any of you know anyone working at either Icewarp, TIMS or earthlink? All three have IMAP servers that advertise X-MOVE (so says Timo). Arnt From tss@iki.fi Tue Jun 19 20:27:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D909411E80D2 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:27:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -107.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-107.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VtqZ3QyZxxkH for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:27:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [193.210.130.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D00211E808E for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 20:27:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.10.2] (a88-112-255-76.elisa-laajakaista.fi [88.112.255.76]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEBE81AE8770 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:27:53 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> From: Timo Sirainen To: imapext@ietf.org Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:27:47 +0300 Organization: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" X-Mailer: Evolution 3.2.2-1+b1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Mime-Version: 1.0 Subject: [imapext] MOVE X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 03:27:59 -0000 I implemented the current draft to upcoming Dovecot v2.2. If target mailbox doesn't exist it returns [TRYCREATE], just like COPY. Actually I implemented it as a small "move" flag on top of the existing COPY code, so their functionality is pretty much identical. It doesn't advertise the MOVE capability yet, just in case if the spec still changes. From tss@iki.fi Tue Jun 19 21:15:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6456C11E809A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:15:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -109.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-109.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yHT6Z3djDix5 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [193.210.130.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF81A21F86F8 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 21:15:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.10.101] (a88-112-255-76.elisa-laajakaista.fi [88.112.255.76]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68BA1AE8770 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:15:29 +0300 (EEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) From: Timo Sirainen In-Reply-To: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:15:30 +0300 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> To: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: Re: [imapext] MOVE X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:15:31 -0000 On 20.6.2012, at 6.27, Timo Sirainen wrote: > I implemented the current draft to upcoming Dovecot v2.2. If target > mailbox doesn't exist it returns [TRYCREATE], just like COPY. Actually = I > implemented it as a small "move" flag on top of the existing COPY = code, > so their functionality is pretty much identical. It doesn't advertise > the MOVE capability yet, just in case if the spec still changes. Also: Since the same code could be used to implement both, it would be = trivial for me to add support for (non-UID) MOVE command. Since COPY = already allows server to send EXPUNGEs, I don't think there would be any = problems with adding it to the spec. But then again, I don't know if = anyone actually wants to use it and if it would be more difficult for = others to implement. I don't really have an opinion on if it should = exist or not. From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Tue Jun 19 23:21:47 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6077521F86B9 for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:21:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CZ7gqi08Wc+t for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:21:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD0521F852A for ; Tue, 19 Jun 2012 23:21:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5209FF8C0D8; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:21:45 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1340173304-6884-6883/10/2; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:21:44 +0000 Message-Id: <4FE16C05.8020607@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:21:57 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: imapext@ietf.org References: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> In-Reply-To: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [imapext] MOVE X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 06:21:47 -0000 On 06/20/2012 05:27 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: > It doesn't advertise > the MOVE capability yet, just in case if the spec still changes. I think there's a 50% chance the spec will change, to add MSN-based MOVE. IIRC Cyrus as client author would like to use MSNs to move messages, Adrien as server author had problems with it. Noone else has mentioned any substantive preference as far as I can recall. (Several people have mentioned a principled preference that MOVE should have both MSN- and UID-based commands, because so many other IMAP commands do.) Arnt From brong@fastmail.fm Wed Jun 20 01:36:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857EC21F8733 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:36:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6oIU8CgRW-WZ for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B409A21F8713 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 01:36:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute2.internal (compute2.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.42]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1AC20AC5; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.216]) by compute2.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:36:10 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= message-id:from:to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:references; s=mesmtp; bh= 6eAJfxXoFYqERNSIxb4pr/FJGmA=; b=ZvzQU44f+zAL6uDmJfD+9Dbdr6gjYg0V iOgbHcMZ07BD5HnkQINg2YsYH6rsaWNQFFvAIpzSaA48sBHZl/BvFHAUFoH456FG 27gJfLkcsNNg983WE7sO66QlNifq9P7eenZKtT1JXudsPUsX61opfRIwRFWv9igJ ZsA99kyNq7g= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to :references; s=smtpout; bh=6eAJfxXoFYqERNSIxb4pr/FJGmA=; b=IxlRG tGLrWOTJb0TCRBLZxMdzYgY3nvoO5BJvMTPN/PqJU+5hiOABuLsLXh0I2EmiOwYu gZcDXbJlBB5rAzsDRF1OJmISAA+bltUB2kgHbWNLIpKmln1BhGP8NW8kSRV2Mqqm yC5hAA3H+Cd+dc6kJlvW4lvjTSz4R4qxLlyD8U= Received: by web6.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id 67F0A68449F; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 04:36:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1340181370.8128.140661091599669.0553BC5C@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: ZLrcnvbwMnZQmOXo93VTJDzGAV4XKx7oKo0YUkSd7tbM 1340181370 From: Bron Gondwana To: Timo Sirainen , imapext@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:36:10 +0200 In-Reply-To: References: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> Subject: Re: [imapext] MOVE X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:36:12 -0000 On Wed, Jun 20, 2012, at 07:15 AM, Timo Sirainen wrote: > On 20.6.2012, at 6.27, Timo Sirainen wrote: > > > I implemented the current draft to upcoming Dovecot v2.2. If target > > mailbox doesn't exist it returns [TRYCREATE], just like COPY. Actually I > > implemented it as a small "move" flag on top of the existing COPY code, > > so their functionality is pretty much identical. It doesn't advertise > > the MOVE capability yet, just in case if the spec still changes. > > Also: Since the same code could be used to implement both, it would be trivial for me to add support for (non-UID) MOVE command. Since COPY already allows server to send EXPUNGEs, I don't think there would be any problems with adding it to the spec. But then again, I don't know if anyone actually wants to use it and if it would be more difficult for others to implement. I don't really have an opinion on if it should exist or not. I support both in Cyrus - and indeed I did it exactly the same way, a simple flag to COPY called "ismove" which causes it to run the expunge as well. non-UID is nice to use from TELNET sessions at least :) Bron. -- Bron Gondwana brong@fastmail.fm From cyrus@daboo.name Wed Jun 20 07:59:50 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC60921F8732 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:59:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.366 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.366 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.233, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XEHuCGwQNH+R for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:59:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daboo.name (daboo.name [173.13.55.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A5C21F86FA for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 07:59:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8F4D29B8C95; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:48 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daboo.name Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (daboo.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hrV5231A9Nyr; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from caldav.corp.apple.com (unknown [17.45.162.46]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A45B829B8C85; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:45 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 10:59:42 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Arnt Gulbrandsen , imapext@ietf.org Message-ID: <3EAD7840FEFA64FD280FD21C@caldav.corp.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <4FE16C05.8020607@gulbrandsen.priv.no> References: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> <4FE16C05.8020607@gulbrandsen.priv.no> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a3 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; size=868 Subject: Re: [imapext] MOVE X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 14:59:50 -0000 Hi Arnt, --On June 20, 2012 8:21:57 AM +0200 Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: >> It doesn't advertise >> the MOVE capability yet, just in case if the spec still changes. > > I think there's a 50% chance the spec will change, to add MSN-based MOVE. > > IIRC Cyrus as client author would like to use MSNs to move messages, > Adrien as server author had problems with it. Noone else has mentioned > any substantive preference as far as I can recall. (Several people have > mentioned a principled preference that MOVE should have both MSN- and > UID-based commands, because so many other IMAP commands do.) I can live without MSN support if it really is a blocking issue, but just for completeness it seems to me we ought to have it. But since virtually no one actually uses my client now, my preference should not block progress. -- Cyrus Daboo From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Wed Jun 20 08:12:37 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E62D521F85BD for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:12:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pibyXUAfWXuC for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36A2021F85E1 for ; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 08:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DA35F8D803; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:12:35 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1340205154-6884-6883/11/9; Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:12:34 +0000 Message-Id: <4FE1E86F.7050808@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 17:12:47 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: Cyrus Daboo References: <1340162867.5967.62.camel@hurina> <4FE16C05.8020607@gulbrandsen.priv.no> <3EAD7840FEFA64FD280FD21C@caldav.corp.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <3EAD7840FEFA64FD280FD21C@caldav.corp.apple.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] MOVE X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jun 2012 15:12:37 -0000 On 06/20/2012 04:59 PM, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > I can live without MSN support if it really is a blocking issue, but > just for completeness it seems to me we ought to have it. But since > virtually no one actually uses my client now, my preference should not > block progress. I too would prefer to have it, if we can have it without the kind of soul-destroying discussion that we've had over each previous MOVE proposal. There are, at last count, 11 servers that either have MOVE, have committed to it, or have some *MOVE of their own. IMO, if all 11 can do MSN-based MOVE and none of us find a terrible problem with its specification, then my intuition is to include it. Uniformity is not a bad trait in protocols. Arnt From iesg-secretary@ietf.org Tue Jun 26 09:17:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF5521F84A2; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:17:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.538 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.538 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.061, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id axnYKf-K0nKv; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890EF21F84AF; Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.21 Message-ID: <20120626161705.13241.31749.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 09:17:05 -0700 Cc: imapmove WG Subject: [imapext] WG Action: Formed IMAP MOVE extension (imapmove) X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Jun 2012 16:17:06 -0000 A new IETF working group has been formed in the Applications Area. For additional information please contact the Area Directors or the WG Chairs. IMAP MOVE extension (imapmove) ------------------------------------------------ Current Status: Proposed Working Group Chairs: Alexey Melnikov Ned Freed Assigned Area Director: Barry Leiba Mailing list Address: imapext@ietf.org To Subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext Archive: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/imapext/ Charter of Working Group: The Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP), defined in RFC 3501, specifies a protocol for transferring email messages between a server that implements a message store, and a client. It also includes commands for manipulating the message store -- creating, deleting, and renaming mailboxes, adding a message to a mailbox, and copying messages from one mailbox to another. It's often the case that an IMAP client needs to move (not copy) messages from one mailbox to another. The mechanism that IMAP provides to do that is a multi-step process: 1. Copy the messages from the source mailbox to the target mailbox. 2. Flag the original messages in the source mailbox as deleted. 3. Expunge the deleted messages from the source mailbox. Implementors have long pointed out some shortcomings with this approach. Because the moving of a message is not an atomic process, interruptions can leave messages in intermediate states. Because multiple clients can be accessing the mailboxes at the same time, clients can see messages in intermediate states even without interruptions. If the source mailbox contains other messages that are flagged for deletion, the third step can have the side effect of expunging more than just the set of moved messages. And servers with certain types of back-end message stores might have efficient ways of moving messages, which don't involve actual copying of data. Such efficiencies are often not available to the copy/flag/expunge process. The IMAP MOVE extension (imapmove) working group has the single task of developing an IMAP MOVE extension that defines a single command to move a set of messages from a source mailbox to a target mailbox in a single operation. The group will use draft-gulbrandsen-imap-move as a starting point, and will produce a Standards Track document. As part of the protocol development, implementation experience on both the client and server side is highly desireable, so that the actual operational value of this extension can be assessed. The working group will document the results of this experience on the working group wiki. No other IMAP extension work is in scope for this working group. Milestones: Jul 2012 - Initial adoption of IMAP MOVE protocol document Jul 2012 - Establishment of implementation tracking on the working group wiki Aug 2012 - Initial assessment of implementation results Sep 2012 - Final report on implementation results Oct 2012 - IMAP MOVE protocol document to IESG as Proposed Standard From fanf2@hermes.cam.ac.uk Wed Jun 27 12:15:05 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DFFD11E8086; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:15:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.169 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.169 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.430, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oTlr6vNxu8Li; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ppsw-52.csi.cam.ac.uk (ppsw-52.csi.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.152]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E643D11E80AA; Wed, 27 Jun 2012 12:15:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Cam-AntiVirus: no malware found X-Cam-SpamDetails: not scanned X-Cam-ScannerInfo: http://www.cam.ac.uk/cs/email/scanner/ Received: from hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk ([131.111.8.54]:60175) by ppsw-52.csi.cam.ac.uk (smtp.hermes.cam.ac.uk [131.111.8.159]:25) with esmtpa (EXTERNAL:fanf2) id 1Sjxhe-0003MB-G6 (Exim 4.72) (return-path ); Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:15:03 +0100 Received: from fanf2 (helo=localhost) by hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk (hermes.cam.ac.uk) with local-esmtp id 1Sjxhe-0004AL-Tf (Exim 4.67) (return-path ); Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:15:02 +0100 Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:15:02 +0100 From: Tony Finch X-X-Sender: fanf2@hermes-2.csi.cam.ac.uk To: imapext@ietf.org, ietf-smtp@ietf.org Message-ID: User-Agent: Alpine 2.00 (LSU 1167 2008-08-23) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: Tony Finch Subject: [imapext] draft-fanf-dane-mua-00 X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 19:15:05 -0000 The below should be of interest to members of these lists too. Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ Humber, Thames: South or southeast 3 or 4, occasionally 5 later. Slight or moderate. Thundery showers, fog patches. Moderate, occasionally very poor. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 20:09:56 +0100 From: Tony Finch To: dane@ietf.org Subject: [dane] draft-fanf-dane-mua-00 At long last, I have got what I hope is a plausible spec for using DANE with IMAP, POP3, and message submission. I think my main struggle was working out what I did not need to put in the document. The compatibility bits are particularly tricky. The structure owes a fair amount to Matt Miller and PSA's XMPP draft, and to RFC 6186. I have also made a minor revision to my other draft which is now draft-fanf-dane-smt-04. This is mainly to flag up points for discussion in Vancouver. All questions / comments / suggestions welcome! Tony. -- f.anthony.n.finch http://dotat.at/ Trafalgar: Variable mainly northwesterly 3 or 4, but easterly 5 to 7 at first in far southeast. Rough at first in far southeast, otherwise slight or moderate. Showers, fog patches. Moderate or good, occasionally very poor. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Wed, 27 Jun 2012 11:58:10 -0700 From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: dot@dotat.at Subject: New Version Notification for draft-fanf-dane-mua-00.txt A new version of I-D, draft-fanf-dane-mua-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Tony Finch and posted to the IETF repository. Filename: draft-fanf-dane-mua Revision: 00 Title: DNSSEC and TLSA records for IMAP, POP3, and message submission Creation date: 2012-06-27 WG ID: Individual Submission Number of pages: 8 URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-fanf-dane-mua-00.txt Status: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fanf-dane-mua Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-fanf-dane-mua-00 Abstract: This specification describes the effect that DNSSEC has on SRV-based autoconfiguration and TLS certificate verification in the mail user agent protocols IMAP, POP3, and message submission. It also describes how to use TLSA DNS records to provide stronger authentication of server TLS certificates. The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ dane mailing list dane@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/dane From Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Thu Jun 28 14:15:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BA3E11E80A1; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:15:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mzNHUx3leTBa; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:15:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E28EE21F8551; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:15:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.21p1 Message-ID: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:15:01 -0700 Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:15:03 -0000 --NextPart A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IMAP MOVE extension Working Group of the IETF. Title : The IMAP Move Extension Author(s) : A. Gulbrandsen Filename : draft-ietf-imapmove-command Pages : 7 Date : June 28, 2012 The MOVE extension provides a new command, UID MOVE, which moves one or more messages from the selected mailbox to a named mailbox. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-imapmove-command"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2012-06-28141501.I-D@ietf.org> --NextPart-- From dkarp@zimbra.com Thu Jun 28 14:47:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0B79121F8621 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:47:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tNUzO+7YjjRK for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:47:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta02.zimbra.com (mta02.zimbra.com [205.140.197.62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8135721F8616 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:47:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 534977C001C for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:47:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.com Received: from mta02.zimbra.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta02.zimbra.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ET2-hFjwlmcF for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dogfood.zimbra.com (dogfood.zimbra.com [10.113.63.59]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 45C637C0019 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:47:03 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 14:47:01 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Karp To: imapext@ietf.org Message-ID: <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> In-Reply-To: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.0_BETA5_5277 (ZimbraWebClient - GC20 (Mac)/8.0.0_BETA5_5277) Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt Thread-Index: 6GGUZq23POg4824xzyLd0QoCcubvsA== Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 21:47:32 -0000 > 3. UID MOVE > First, each message SHOULD either be moved or unaffected. The server > SHOULD NOT leave a message in neither or both mailboxes afterwards > (even if the server returns a tagged NO response). Can there be a situation where some messages in the set are moved and others are unaffected? > Second, the messages MUST NOT have the \Deleted flag set in the > target mailbox. What if the original messages already had the \Deleted flag set? > Third, the server is not required to send FETCH FLAGS responses for > the messages it expunges. Why would it have to do this in any case? - Dan From blong@google.com Thu Jun 28 15:03:03 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9267911E80E3 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d0sNr5Tdqbrp for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8058411E80E1 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qaea16 with SMTP id a16so308978qae.10 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; bh=GQFcY5oNHJLap2NOnCgllk7EfLW7l2Cy+SolOIw4BmY=; b=Dl6ZSaL9Wr691/+obiIoo9lkwqNnZZlOXHExcCG9aAxqOWKjiivFkRxxUuida1E2LS JgXSRlOVg/Zpi3CFwm8sZWZBmsGGLCqevYr1rDcQdr70zn49i+Q81VmPNO5Nket3C3DL DdKk5ypQeEPEiWmIOYTzx2Y11dMVGy5lWcB299DoSg/lSlNTCxozBkHoeAXTsVZEtDYP lIMokjn0CB/tyssTWl+x+bdWLNpEWDdKsqtc912X3KZmnBuAIwiTKCTB857NJwY3qLWk hiqMp/wCue2qoSaWapCFdQsmgIu63XLMWpT+DJQ5VuU8qsZiGd1tBuWaaBvRR6T4PrvD WfgA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-system-of-record:x-gm-message-state; bh=GQFcY5oNHJLap2NOnCgllk7EfLW7l2Cy+SolOIw4BmY=; b=WaCoxg1duczsGMAnmrwZrQar9HfXUgZsHXUuVmPUyrpgEyPKR15GPVkD5zA3Hh61jG cdl6M8CmAy3f8flt3amV3WEWdRn5vQSMiceZURc/WVXObQpfkl/Qf4I+nBHWxgSdrkez 63BzPDZE8sLaSy9O8Ka4CzhnC5LxnuNofSfWmNxag2YmF9PwBV7FCWY1nuqgGdHwBDIr tR8o/VgpWvnAQfDVSAyLMB1HZJ3gl+gGXuWIskLG0Bnzu3MS+AF8YGx/WSHvacSeryEp RsgZGUmuCHWOTi0N6xMI5MSAsr5IIHyb915GEHDoUdVlJbermQ8v20MTil7uQFrI6dLN EcmQ== Received: by 10.224.109.199 with SMTP id k7mr6016383qap.98.1340920981842; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.224.109.199 with SMTP id k7mr6016358qap.98.1340920981692; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.60.229 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:01 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:03:01 -0700 Message-ID: From: Brandon Long To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=20cf3074b3ccc91ff404c38f7e75 X-System-Of-Record: true X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnfmpm2OF++b+CsuS/XCKRr3N+4iw0LC2tMuXFYtqVgL0VoDBpRgrazJvWGPi5tkNomST4jqql8q0Gn2SJLhh6A/CXRggRYQZP4GqNWkLKi90u8No1oA5IOFTxQvJJUSv8dF+S3g8+T/4tOhw0m57pdwkXqdTy+fMoO1zI5p+dgXDZUJB5arIyX4Mw2bWUAvpweXgvY Cc: imapext@ietf.org, i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:03:03 -0000 --20cf3074b3ccc91ff404c38f7e75 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 A general question: if one wanted to implement the draft, does one then make it available as XMOVE? (er, UID XMOVE?) And then, potentially, need to support XMOVE for some very long time? Or does one just export it as specified in the draft, and update over time as drafts come out? This is probably more of a request for opinions, I assume there isn't a single correct way to go. Brandon On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 2:15 PM, wrote: > A new Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IMAP MOVE extension Working Group of the > IETF. > > Title : The IMAP Move Extension > Author(s) : A. Gulbrandsen > Filename : draft-ietf-imapmove-command > Pages : 7 > Date : June 28, 2012 > > The MOVE extension provides a new command, UID MOVE, which moves one > or more messages from the selected mailbox to a named mailbox. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > _______________________________________________ > imapext mailing list > imapext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext > > --20cf3074b3ccc91ff404c38f7e75 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable A general question: if one wanted to implement the draft, does one then mak= e it available as XMOVE? (er, UID XMOVE?) =A0And then, potentially, need to= support XMOVE for some very long time?

Or does one just= export it as specified in the draft, and update over time as drafts come o= ut?

This is probably more of a request for opinions, I assu= me there isn't a single correct way to go.

Bra= ndon

On = Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 2:15 PM, <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

A new Internet-Draft is available from the o= n-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IMAP MOVE extension Working Group of the I= ETF.

=A0 =A0 Title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : The IMAP Move Extension
=A0 =A0 Author(s) =A0 =A0 : A. Gulbrandsen
=A0 =A0 Filename =A0 =A0 =A0: draft-ietf-imapmove-command
=A0 =A0 Pages =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : 7
=A0 =A0 Date =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: June 28, 2012

The MOVE extension provides a new command, UID MOVE, which moves one
=A0 =A0or more messages from the selected mailbox to a named mailbox.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-im= apmove-command-00.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp= .ietf.org/internet-drafts/

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

_______________________________________________
imapext mailing list
imapext@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext

--20cf3074b3ccc91ff404c38f7e75-- From brong@fastmail.fm Thu Jun 28 15:15:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DD1411E80D7; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:15:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.001, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lnlK3IfZaKZJ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D06E11E80D0; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:15:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute6.internal (compute6.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.46]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FF8B2142A; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:15:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.216]) by compute6.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:15:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:in-reply-to:references:subject:date; s=mesmtp; bh= ANubWc8O6DgZ8whvL6k4bEaJYNs=; b=CK9og0MP//5BcHPDwM/mTkJMzq4mn3Qm Xte7MEK8sbiWJCr94BaXkhJRHb/Fooj1H3+7GMnYOQU4sZKPfs/fFepgTp7fCJvN qx+xI7P5LfBIgCYc7kOVB8Z4gsUpElueNmvGsjisYMjhs9Ylk2ZzCCA5vyObNwjw rE7xns2VC5E= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:cc:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:in-reply-to:references :subject:date; s=smtpout; bh=ANubWc8O6DgZ8whvL6k4bEaJYNs=; b=QkL hmOt6VrDmrXciOR44VploYHBgFurxQ5A2V/AcuUdfF2fymT7WuuXkc539cuiZSGd TRPxfTSCBFBStfvECJ9g9P+1/u1s9CWNMQ5sJwD4D/+WjymFe6Io/9CL5H5YHlR1 eUYsIGQA+qRG3GgxhM/qdpj5cFsO6pCp7VhocsRU= Received: by web6.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id D0BFE68449B; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1340921739.11449.140661095425141.66EB8DD3@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: Mq06XQ97n4dGbCWpbpfvdDxe6cAO9TX/82v2DCnUKGqM 1340921739 From: Bron Gondwana To: Brandon Long , Internet-Drafts@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_----------=_1340921739114492"; charset="utf-8" X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface In-Reply-To: References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:15:39 +0200 Cc: imapext@ietf.org, i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:15:42 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --_----------=_1340921739114492 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain On Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 03:03 PM, Brandon Long wrote: A general question: if one wanted to implement the draft, does one then make it available as XMOVE? (er, UID XMOVE?) And then, potentially, need to support XMOVE for some very long time? Or does one just export it as specified in the draft, and update over time as drafts come out? This is probably more of a request for opinions, I assume there isn't a single correct way to go. I thought X was out. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6648/ That said, I'm offering both in Cyrus now, and planning to leave them both in, since it doesn't hurt except by making CAPABILITY even longer than it already is. Bron. -- Bron Gondwana brong@fastmail.fm --_----------=_1340921739114492 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/html

On Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 03:03 PM, Brandon Long wrote:

A general question: if one wanted to implement the draft, does one then make it available as XMOVE? (er, UID XMOVE?) And then, potentially, need to support XMOVE for some very long time?

Or does one just export it as specified in the draft, and update over time as drafts come out?

This is probably more of a request for opinions, I assume there isn't a single correct way to go.

I thought X was out.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/rfc6648/

That said, I'm offering both in Cyrus now, and planning to leave them both in, since it doesn't hurt except by making CAPABILITY even longer than it already is.

Bron.

Bron Gondwana

brong@fastmail.fm

--_----------=_1340921739114492-- From brong@fastmail.fm Thu Jun 28 15:23:30 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BC1E11E80D0 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:23:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSOUExf9823d for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A36711E80C6 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 15:23:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute4.internal (compute4.nyi.mail.srv.osa [10.202.2.44]) by gateway1.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix) with ESMTP id E139F2135A; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web6.nyi.mail.srv.osa ([10.202.2.216]) by compute4.internal (MEProxy); Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:23:28 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=fastmail.fm; h= message-id:from:to:mime-version:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to:references; s=mesmtp; bh= DlEUT13vDkDcR9SF0vjdgpZjWGo=; b=IdPGxvaY9sJxploUqTxjHcaDOcA3MaXw msWSvNZn0xufuZCxcPExJPP2OwJTwk6BKMQCf6pjZoTlNKxJYrMUfAIgL/1odlQo JeTWJ4HNEd56mNGZqm+zzNW24hWdK35GY7zwibA1gIsxe4Y7iCLAgZkh+RO0I6B+ FQaTwAfbHMc= DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=message-id:from:to:mime-version :content-transfer-encoding:content-type:subject:date:in-reply-to :references; s=smtpout; bh=DlEUT13vDkDcR9SF0vjdgpZjWGo=; b=UdMsw auUsUQl8IMZWNGnV0JdXDlGkrS+uWojiLc+dDb38AKnfzUGB/i4Id0YpaphTmQXi rjIAO+s0R3WsDwlraJzZ8UHrbwbLVooDvC/dMg/hpeKzboyvz9PaEQWszvwnSoFJ 4A6kTWsYU6l7s5dP6wxGXO4Qk3OTAQzM1MRV8I= Received: by web6.nyi.mail.srv.osa (Postfix, from userid 99) id BE2BB68449B; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 18:23:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <1340922208.12729.140661095425773.038A3173@webmail.messagingengine.com> X-Sasl-Enc: 61IrOBEe8Sv5Hes/CoDerXKCnVfk4dGuEK00tVHYlEwl 1340922208 From: Bron Gondwana To: Dan Karp , imapext@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:23:28 +0200 In-Reply-To: <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:23:30 -0000 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012, at 02:47 PM, Dan Karp wrote: > > 3. UID MOVE > > > First, each message SHOULD either be moved or unaffected. The server > > SHOULD NOT leave a message in neither or both mailboxes afterwards > > (even if the server returns a tagged NO response). > > Can there be a situation where some messages in the set are moved and > others are unaffected? I suspect it's going to be implementation dependent. Worst cases are always things like crashes and filesystem corruption, where all bets are a bit off... > > Second, the messages MUST NOT have the \Deleted flag set in the > > target mailbox. > > What if the original messages already had the \Deleted flag set? My memory of the recent(ish) discussions would lead me to suggest wording that goes something like: "Messages SHOULD have the same flags set as they did in the source mailbox and MUST NOT have \Deleted set if it was not set on the source message before the MOVE". The reasoning for the SHOULD is that different mailboxes might not support some flags (probably a bogus argument, but hey) There's an argument for stripping \Deleted during a move, since chances are that the user indended to delete them and you just caught a race. Then again, there's an argument for flat-out rejecting the move if you hit a message with \Deleted set too... But the simplest and clearest is "it's EXACTLY THE SAME as COPY + STORE + UID EXPUNGE" - so semantics should match that, and COPY will transfer the \Deleted flag if it's set, so do that. > > Third, the server is not required to send FETCH FLAGS responses for > > the messages it expunges. > > Why would it have to do this in any case? That looks confused to me. It should say "is not required to send EXPUNGE untagged responses for ...". And I am in favour of stripping this and saying send them. Same argument - it should be identical to COPY + STORE + UID EXPUNGE. Bron. -- Bron Gondwana brong@fastmail.fm From dkarp@zimbra.com Thu Jun 28 16:27:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2545821F84B5 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ddq9BgIgrU8z for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mta02.zimbra.com (mta02.zimbra.com [205.140.197.62]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93ED811E8088 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43D0A7C000A; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at zimbra.com Received: from mta02.zimbra.com ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mta02.zimbra.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PWoeBiM2PueB; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dogfood.zimbra.com (dogfood.zimbra.com [10.113.63.59]) by mta02.zimbra.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE0E27C0005; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 16:27:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Dan Karp To: Bron Gondwana Message-ID: <113416384.25468.1340926038527.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> In-Reply-To: <1340922208.12729.140661095425773.038A3173@webmail.messagingengine.com> References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> <1340922208.12729.140661095425773.038A3173@webmail.messagingengine.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.0.0_BETA5_5277 (ZimbraWebClient - GC20 (Mac)/8.0.0_BETA5_5277) Thread-Topic: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt Thread-Index: 1O+Qb124pgaWvCsjodzy7sZiDCoMAA== Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 23:27:43 -0000 > > > Third, the server is not required to send FETCH FLAGS responses > > > for the messages it expunges. > > > > Why would it have to do this in any case? Actually, I see why it'd do this. We're defining UID MOVE as "the same effect as a sequence of UID COPY, UID STORE +FLAGS \DELETED and UID EXPUNGE". If we changed it to "UID STORE +FLAGS.SILENT \DELETED", this issue would go away (and the MOVE definition would probably be clearer). - Dan From cyrus@daboo.name Thu Jun 28 17:20:25 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BF8811E80D3 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:20:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PFBc6NBR4orp for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from daboo.name (daboo.name [173.13.55.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B59DC11E808D for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 17:20:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28B232A2C35E; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:20:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at daboo.name Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (daboo.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zH49yBQGqpGl; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:20:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [17.45.162.249] (unknown [173.13.55.49]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 612132A2C353; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 28 Jun 2012 20:20:20 -0400 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Dan Karp , Bron Gondwana Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <113416384.25468.1340926038527.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> <1340922208.12729.140661095425773.038A3173@webmail.messagingengine.com> <113416384.25468.1340926038527.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a3 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; size=462 Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 00:20:25 -0000 Hi Dan, --On June 28, 2012 4:27:18 PM -0700 Dan Karp wrote: >> > Why would it have to do this in any case? > > Actually, I see why it'd do this. We're defining UID MOVE as "the same > effect as a sequence of UID COPY, UID STORE +FLAGS \DELETED and UID > EXPUNGE". If we changed it to "UID STORE +FLAGS.SILENT \DELETED", this > issue would go away (and the MOVE definition would probably be clearer). Yes! Good suggestion. -- Cyrus Daboo From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Thu Jun 28 22:55:43 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7637511E80CA for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:55:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F+28igW1-Ik2 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:55:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3C9611E808F for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:55:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107D8F8DA95; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:55:42 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1340949341-3762-3762/11/6; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:55:41 +0000 Message-Id: <4FED4361.3050907@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 07:55:45 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: imapext@ietf.org References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1340921739.11449.140661095425141.66EB8DD3@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1340921739.11449.140661095425141.66EB8DD3@webmail.messagingengine.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:55:43 -0000 On 06/29/2012 12:15 AM, Bron Gondwana wrote: > That said, I'm offering both in Cyrus now, and planning to leave them > both in, since it doesn't hurt except by making CAPABILITY even longer > than it already is. There are four independent XMOVEs. Although they doubtlessly do the same general thing, I do wonder what confusion different details might wreap upon clients. Personally I'd just as soon stay away from XMOVE. Arnt From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Thu Jun 28 22:57:40 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 650C011E8085 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:57:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LewLqXX--2lX for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:57:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9552C11E808F for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 22:57:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1629FF8DA95; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:57:39 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1340949458-3762-3762/11/7; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:57:38 +0000 Message-Id: <4FED43D6.8080506@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 07:57:42 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: imapext@ietf.org References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> <1340922208.12729.140661095425773.038A3173@webmail.messagingengine.com> <113416384.25468.1340926038527.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> In-Reply-To: <113416384.25468.1340926038527.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 05:57:40 -0000 On 06/29/2012 01:27 AM, Dan Karp wrote: > If we changed it to "UID STORE +FLAGS.SILENT \DELETED", this issue would > go away (and the MOVE definition would probably be clearer). Duh. Done. Arnt From arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no Thu Jun 28 23:33:06 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7A7121F865D for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 23:33:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zx+vvvgniGCh for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 23:33:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from strange.aox.org (strange.aox.org [IPv6:2001:4d88:100c::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 163ED21F8657 for ; Thu, 28 Jun 2012 23:33:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (unknown [127.0.0.1]) by strange.aox.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0ADEAF8DB0A; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:33:05 +0000 (UTC) Received: from arnt@gulbrandsen.priv.no by fri.gulbrandsen.priv.no (Archiveopteryx 3.1.4) with esmtpsa id 1340951584-3762-3762/11/8; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:33:04 +0000 Message-Id: <4FED4C25.2000903@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 08:33:09 +0200 From: Arnt Gulbrandsen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:12.0) Gecko/20120430 Thunderbird/12.0.1 Mime-Version: 1.0 To: imapext@ietf.org References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> In-Reply-To: <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 06:33:06 -0000 On 06/28/2012 11:47 PM, Dan Karp wrote: >> First, each message SHOULD either be moved or unaffected. The server >> > SHOULD NOT leave a message in neither or both mailboxes afterwards >> > (even if the server returns a tagged NO response). > Can there be a situation where some messages in the set are moved and > others are unaffected? A couple of people asked for it, at least. Problems might become apparent underway, when half the messages have been moved. Moving all error checking to the head of the command handler is desirable, but AFAICT not always practical. It's a bit 1990-ish, but consider what happens if you run out of disk space wherever the target mailbox is hosted halfway through. >> > Second, the messages MUST NOT have the \Deleted flag set in the >> > target mailbox. > What if the original messages already had the \Deleted flag set? I deleted that sentence now. Whoever asked for it can come forward. Arnt From blong@google.com Fri Jun 29 11:30:42 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3266B21F8812 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.785 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.785 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.790, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, SARE_HTML_USL_OBFU=1.666, SARE_MILLIONSOF=0.315, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kF4fOUI6S1sV for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qa0-f51.google.com (mail-qa0-f51.google.com [209.85.216.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A495821F87AE for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by qaea16 with SMTP id a16so839001qae.10 for ; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-system-of-record; bh=vWW07UG3cLJrLuvArXbMCBanaRUPu5GbhO3i6JkPu1s=; b=eBhEa1tBbFSe75peDd9iQ3VtSvFmMEN/dB1Cchk5T0OP+jKRmJJp9txF3HS0ur37Be I69m4deRu3R0cMbNqBdOAyb4NGQL+LsYBCVd7e5JGJWI+TM57zvGFt7wiC9EJXd4CPek ZIWRubxEKkZ44n0m6AI64A6FetHfBWpMwCYQBYa2VjIXSreqMDwCCqgWKRQqlKoCULjW RsYFBnZrAd9CL75vzEGS1dkw6v5gpHMPBQ/8vWyVrDQ3rzJrAeRZve1B+z6aXPxRMrJs /mn67LFHnBtqxUDihw19OQn6EOJL/FsNCKo4gSBubOMSTwpfimNliT/S2zgdJ+GaLcZ2 BeFw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type:x-system-of-record:x-gm-message-state; bh=vWW07UG3cLJrLuvArXbMCBanaRUPu5GbhO3i6JkPu1s=; b=Cw1VSuJevr+ok6richaPFXSGJ4Lx0EUTbAQvgaJbztFSwCDJA9/45843To93Hhs8G8 iNkUtAciOj6zR2MFjGhBsZDJpH+K7kw1qmcrZ1Qv91/SopnYXo/3VY5BUTOcH3/lULMe bxxuYfF8X0mKMSygMfJli71VvW+ck+ptGd74AmBVeK0XRu4OL8+JL+zCKAz5SMHWq2Wg LMrJLWPc85Y8TZaFNfSKvLLRo/H278vdCKNG3EVbmhyaWO1pcOF3obYOikmJef+/vAJC 3i59lI4A1yK6qCKiv1coI/H391bJik5OMe/AEU22642sbvorjRxGNvC/aSCXRCjGYj+i iddw== Received: by 10.229.105.205 with SMTP id u13mr1373826qco.9.1340994639001; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.229.105.205 with SMTP id u13mr1373816qco.9.1340994638759; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.229.60.229 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:38 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <4FED4C25.2000903@gulbrandsen.priv.no> References: <20120628211501.4968.42901.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <1265104974.20556.1340920021370.JavaMail.root@zimbra.com> <4FED4C25.2000903@gulbrandsen.priv.no> Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 11:30:38 -0700 Message-ID: From: Brandon Long To: Arnt Gulbrandsen Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0022158c0f0d16c62404c3a0a590 X-System-Of-Record: true X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmThJH6b/J13yGOp+KGXtSZUtZGVZ/MttvR5QUxFOZ4x2TNEXBGbOUmC/XjxwB0a4WiUZfnUf+9L24Jrtn5B+vXCO43hnj+SQRUmeZrkZb1EMKFWwbgJj4lz/M+Ub8inF1p2eRpyDNhViG2bTTM6JIc16sn88OMew+rZOhOZPxZdameSZk89BMsNU4jrAnyoKItIVrA Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-imapmove-command-00.txt X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2012 18:30:42 -0000 --0022158c0f0d16c62404c3a0a590 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Thu, Jun 28, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Arnt Gulbrandsen wrote: > On 06/28/2012 11:47 PM, Dan Karp wrote: > >> First, each message SHOULD either be moved or unaffected. The server >>> > SHOULD NOT leave a message in neither or both mailboxes afterwards >>> > (even if the server returns a tagged NO response). >>> >> Can there be a situation where some messages in the set are moved and >> others are unaffected? >> > > A couple of people asked for it, at least. Problems might become apparent > underway, when half the messages have been moved. Moving all error checking > to the head of the command handler is desirable, but AFAICT not always > practical. > > It's a bit 1990-ish, but consider what happens if you run out of disk > space wherever the target mailbox is hosted halfway through. For us, given that any IMAP command can affect any number of messages (millions?), its impractical for us to do them all in a single transaction. Doing so could take an hour (or more), preventing any other mailbox transactions for the entire time. Splitting it into multiple transactions, however, does mean that one of them may fail, leaving us in a middle state. Its non-ideal, and of course with the right backend you might be able to avoid these issues, but there are a lot of competing interests in a backend such as ours, and executing a change across millions of messages wasn't in the initial design. Brandon > > > Second, the messages MUST NOT have the \Deleted flag set in the >>> > target mailbox. >>> >> What if the original messages already had the \Deleted flag set? >> > > I deleted that sentence now. Whoever asked for it can come forward. > > Arnt > > ______________________________**_________________ > imapext mailing list > imapext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/**listinfo/imapext > --0022158c0f0d16c62404c3a0a590 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, J= un 28, 2012 at 11:33 PM, Arnt Gulbrandsen <arnt@gu= lbrandsen.priv.no> wrote:

On 06/28/2012 11:47 PM, Da= n Karp wrote:

=A0 First, each message SHOULD either be moved or unaffected. The server > =A0 =A0SHOULD NOT leave a message in neither or both mailboxes afterwa= rds
> =A0 =A0(even if the server returns a tagged NO response).

Can there be a situation where some messages in the set are moved and
others are unaffected?

A couple of people asked for it, at least. Problems might become apparent u= nderway, when half the messages have been moved. Moving all error checking = to the head of the command handler is desirable, but AFAICT not always prac= tical.

It's a bit 1990-ish, but consider what happens if you run out of disk s= pace wherever the target mailbox is hosted halfway through.

For us, given that any IMAP command can affect any number = of messages (millions?), its impractical for us to do them all in a single = transaction. =A0Doing so could take an hour (or more), preventing any other= mailbox transactions for the entire time. =A0Splitting it into multiple tr= ansactions, however, does mean that one of them may fail, leaving us in a m= iddle state.

Its non-ideal, and of course with the right backend you= might be able to avoid these issues, but there are a lot of competing inte= rests in a backend such as ours, and executing a change across millions of = messages wasn't in the initial design.

Brandon=A0

> =A0 =A0Second, the messages MUST NOT have the \Deleted flag set in the=
> =A0 =A0target mailbox.

What if the original messages already had the \Deleted flag set?

I deleted that sentence now. Whoever asked for it can come forward.

Arnt

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imap= ext@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext<= br>