From slusarz@horde.org Sat Mar 2 19:44:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4912F21F85CE for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2013 19:44:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W0hlTYs09T78 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2013 19:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:43:76:96:30:16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF44421F85C3 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2013 19:44:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.92]) by qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 6rZl1l0031zF43QA1rk8b8; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 03:44:08 +0000 Received: from bigworm.curecanti.org ([71.229.167.0]) by omta24.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 6rk71l00300qwSn8krk78F; Sun, 03 Mar 2013 03:44:08 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: slusarz) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 938BD4E003 for ; Sat, 2 Mar 2013 20:44:06 -0700 (MST) Received: from schrute.curecanti.org (schrute.curecanti.org [172.18.5.4]) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Sat, 02 Mar 2013 20:44:06 -0700 Date: Sat, 02 Mar 2013 20:44:06 -0700 Message-ID: <20130302204406.Horde.F1MSc2N1qPDPJxI1DEFgPg1@bigworm.curecanti.org> From: Michael M Slusarz To: imapext@ietf.org References: <8f052fc1-7b93-4ab7-a5f2-93b1f9e30734@flaska.net> <1361840733.26475.140661196848569.316FD765@webmail.messagingengine.com> In-Reply-To: <1361840733.26475.140661196848569.316FD765@webmail.messagingengine.com> User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H5 (6.0.5-git) Accept-Language: en X-Originating-IP: 172.18.5.4 X-Remote-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:19.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/19.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1362282248; bh=JjHcdxvz+yljNLbRe3G/PjB4cxnaghwnDu+cxB/q338=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-ID:From:To: Subject:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=HLI/P+8kwz/6FaE4fBr1ZLvKaPOsl1cxNDZiDLebhFjH/DSaqIq3IXmzAnBCrXxwc KgVSmlRQVjEl3YpItkHZJ01wh0ZUPeC0KeuNYrN+h9i+i+Nym7jBm6MEtrif5Nxau/ mCGVWysk/d19MNPYJy1kPO87XlpTfu4+GBlzD7bCD8GgocIRsLVhWO0tvDZR4su5NK xm0D3ER85dVbXMZA+8oDMmIhEnGvHMt0hAKwVskmlGaC5yGutE/Kc9HJ34ZuZAi48j HvMaFX4NcbSmMTwGkrb1XuxA6CRFD+AvryFVjPALsnCjn9YpbCKOKs+kAEf9u/buVw DavcPRaBQu/Vg== Subject: Re: [imapext] Accepting an "ESORT" response instead of an ESEARCH X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Mar 2013 03:44:09 -0000 Quoting Bron Gondwana : > On Tue, Feb 26, 2013, at 04:31 AM, Jan Kundrát wrote: >> On Monday, 25 February 2013 17:58:42 CEST, Dave Cridland wrote: >> > I don't see why we need standardized responses anyway; we may as >> well use a >> > machine learning technique to extract the semantics of each response at >> > runtime. >> >> Yes, we have to drive the line somewhere. On the other hand, >> Trojita is probably the only client which has ever sent ESTORE to >> any IMAP server out there. Yes, it sucks to be the first one. >> However, this won't be the first or the last interoperability quirk >> I add to the code base. >> >> I wonder what other client authors do here? Would you accept the ESORT here? > > I would. But I'm a hard-core pragmatist instead of the sticklers for rules > that seem to populate this newsgroup. To be an even harder-corer pragmatist - what happens when a different broken server in the future sends back an ESORT response, and this response is different than a SORT response? At that point do you try to workaround your workaround? Or do you decide that trying to handle blatantly incorrect responses is more trouble than its worth. (I don't have an answer to that question.) Personally, I would probably remove the ESORT capability from the cached list of available extensions for the current server and retry the query. After all: if the server author couldn't get something right as basic as the response syntax (of which there are plain examples in the RFC), there's probably not a whole lot of trust that other aspects of the implementation are also correct. michael ___________________________________ Michael Slusarz [slusarz@horde.org] From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Tue Mar 5 06:57:27 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 760BD21F88F0 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 06:57:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NrORjk5EADgW for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 06:57:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A400221F88EF for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 06:57:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1362495444; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=k0THOTdHBZcPZKmVBFWOsIUkY9qL43207xK7k489crs=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=jkNYmnv5Ck3fOjHtWp+BTmYlA02QpfiaH88Hk28xwIA6FjehfylZRtmcQn0Yl7a5VXMSd5 2Hdv3uJqJHl+GayUK2Lv5j39dDdCEAfs8MzHbQ8zPjG0GKtRIVCiOwG9P2/2to7roX8IhG 0qPO9suejfutjRTkMB0ao9njuXZCOuk=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:57:24 +0000 Message-ID: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:57:25 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 To: "imapext@ietf.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 14:57:27 -0000 Hi, I've noticed some surge in activity related to implementing CONDSTORE (RFC 4551)/QRESYNC (RFC 5162) in both clients and servers, so I drafted a new WG charter proposal to update/clarify these: ----------- The Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP), defined in RFC 3501, specifies a protocol for accessing email messages on a server that implements a message store from a client. It also includes commands for manipulating the message store -- creating, deleting, and renaming mailboxes, adding a message to a mailbox, and copying messages from one mailbox to another. Base IMAP as described in RFC 3501 requires that in order to discover flag changes and expunged messages in a mailbox, the client has to fetch flags for all messages it knows in the mailbox and compare returned results with its own state. This can generate a significant amount of traffic for big mailboxes. The IMAP CONDSTORE extension (RFC 4551) provides a facility for IMAP clients to quickly resynchronize mailbox flag changes in a mailbox. The IMAP QRESYNC extension (RFC 5162) extended CONDSTORE to also cover expunged messages and reduced the number of round trips needed to resynchronize by extending the SELECT/EXAMINE command. Both extensions seen deployment in both clients and servers. These deployments has exposed errors and clarity issues in the specifications, which need correcting. The IMAP QRESYNC extension (imapqresync) working group has the task of updating CONDSTORE and QRESYNC extensions as Proposed Standards. The working group might produce one (combined) or two separate documents (as now) updating these extensions. The working group will review errata and update the documents as needed to incorporate those, and will correct significant errors and inconsistencies, but will keep changes at this stage to a minimum. In the event that implementation experience would dictate an incompatible change to one (or both) of these extensions, the corresponding IMAP capability identifiers would be changed. No other IMAP extension work is in scope for this working group. --------- So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing and on the proposed charter text. I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which addressed most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If a new WG is to be formed, I propose that the document is used as one of the initial documents. Thank you, Alexey From tss@iki.fi Tue Mar 5 11:01:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 809D011E8109 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:01:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nZy0+LXas6O3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:01:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [193.210.130.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D83611E80E9 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.57.31.11] (gprs-internet-bceea0-11.dhcp.inet.fi [188.238.160.11]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F91A1AE837A; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:01:53 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Timo Sirainen In-Reply-To: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:01:53 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <211A410D-C67D-4FF6-AACB-4007F75F7148@iki.fi> References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> To: Alexey Melnikov X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: "imapext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:01:58 -0000 On 5.3.2013, at 16.57, Alexey Melnikov = wrote: > I've noticed some surge in activity related to implementing CONDSTORE = (RFC 4551)/QRESYNC (RFC 5162) in both clients and servers, so I drafted = a new WG charter proposal to update/clarify these: .. > So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing and on = the proposed charter text. Can we keep it on this mailing list? I've too many mailing lists = already. :) > I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis = (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which addressed = most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If a new WG is to = be formed, I propose that the document is used as one of the initial = documents. Sounds like a good idea. I didn't read it yet, but some = QRESYNC/CONDSTORE things that come to my mind: - command length limits as discussed by Michael - don't allow server to send VANISHED duplicates - algorithm how server uses the seq/uid mapping could be better to = reduce how much data to send (I was planning on thinking this through = but never got around to it) - \recent flag changes highestmodseq? probably nobody cares and makes = it more difficult for server. - condstore: is anyone really using per-flag modseq counters? From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Tue Mar 5 11:09:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82F6E11E812C for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:09:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8uymX7i+zEf3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:09:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E58711E812A for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:09:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1362510578; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=U/x3KBv3lkxWKoMExuzVbeamYkijS1wrE8YTg+CYVx0=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=uoMpqnJllrV8S5YS1rDjnTIW28hhZzgmPOSSGJjIQBKnKjVs35s10dXQ6M5r6xgWL6Pexx ZhB8FKPPEogg46hE1js9iRP915xiZ9Qz2VUdfG03jjlLZZg12SAtvTwB08ANn8qGZlTU/y sp1tX2RpQTtfVzwBvm+G965eLtb59p8=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:09:38 +0000 Message-ID: <513642F3.3080904@isode.com> Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:09:39 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 To: Timo Sirainen References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <211A410D-C67D-4FF6-AACB-4007F75F7148@iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <211A410D-C67D-4FF6-AACB-4007F75F7148@iki.fi> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "imapext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:09:46 -0000 On 05/03/2013 19:01, Timo Sirainen wrote: > On 5.3.2013, at 16.57, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >> I've noticed some surge in activity related to implementing CONDSTORE (RFC 4551)/QRESYNC (RFC 5162) in both clients and servers, so I drafted a new WG charter proposal to update/clarify these: > .. >> So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing and on the proposed charter text. > Can we keep it on this mailing list? I've too many mailing lists already. :) If our ADs are agreeable, the idea is to reuse imapext@ietf.org. >> I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which addressed most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If a new WG is to be formed, I propose that the document is used as one of the initial documents. > Sounds like a good idea. I didn't read it yet, but some QRESYNC/CONDSTORE things that come to my mind: All good questions, a couple of quick comments: > - command length limits as discussed by Michael > - don't allow server to send VANISHED duplicates I think I dealt with this in the most recent draft. But yes, this needs to be fixed. > - algorithm how server uses the seq/uid mapping could be better to reduce how much data to send (I was planning on thinking this through but never got around to it) > - \recent flag changes highestmodseq? No. > probably nobody cares and makes it more difficult for server. > - condstore: is anyone really using per-flag modseq counters? From dave@cridland.net Tue Mar 5 11:14:23 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9768311E812C for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:14:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.976 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.976 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cXgfwD6D-rjK for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:14:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-oa0-f43.google.com (mail-oa0-f43.google.com [209.85.219.43]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A4A21F8570 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:14:22 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-oa0-f43.google.com with SMTP id l10so11415242oag.16 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 11:14:21 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=AqqjeoMpEMVAFC/ENAJt8sZLl5QgvWjotSTP9zxsavc=; b=UTJxyiDL4VwUfN8lUP8SgTg4Elo91MciIOJtj9FgZEEPRUEVpFPWCZtz+vSupSD9cM RM2kPsprxSF4wcz2TrnVf/LXuEkkXgP5NPgnJ/A8bpIv0DgLskpOphfV7qMB3zTjB95B 0GU12QI9tabcWt+KKEd8hkK35usi0sjWhipP0= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=AqqjeoMpEMVAFC/ENAJt8sZLl5QgvWjotSTP9zxsavc=; b=MHu2BYQTdU43z1fm766jcffLfmIM5TlgjOkfQHKPOmTE82UVS3Tg7vCsnYOqPTdYlW 6sIFr5Z5d1IZaTkmMIMKqw23pQjW9gYp+3hTdbkERhFBvudP9feNyYE3HnmGlxPtf+Kh gvLZKS+puNV3247yyLE6UAtU0p2CSk66oBEizkR5m7uEvvntI/asFTguJ+R5/EsOXQ84 0oxWArMXIiEp0MHFOjR7e3bLCwcjYCndRbsOKr/3kg/kGyvwsqKASATGAQan/rfbk2vv dgkil9GB5TM/dU+0OpWitAnaQ2lafFBz4coLwo5WPRtL6mxnXJpm7drN1XTbrtQUWcvY RkUA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.115.34 with SMTP id jl2mr20415524obb.9.1362510861619; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 11:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.10.72 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:14:21 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.10.72 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:14:21 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:14:21 +0000 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: Alexey Melnikov Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d04448141e8f12d04d7324713 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQnrXZzE3xY3xKfa9eZWIMu2/oRce3iHyP6+5tGw5EGsVa7ZL4Dw5/VdXpJQgX3VVVyjanfW Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:14:23 -0000 --f46d04448141e8f12d04d7324713 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mar 5, 2013 9:57 AM, "Alexey Melnikov" wrote: > > Hi, > I've noticed some surge in activity related to implementing CONDSTORE (RFC 4551)/QRESYNC (RFC 5162) in both clients and servers, so I drafted a new WG charter proposal to update/clarify these: For the record, I'm keen to get this working group chartered, and I'm in a position to dedicate a reasonable amount of time to it, with the support of my employer. In particular I'm able to volunteer to co-edit either or both specifications as needed. (For those who haven't noticed, my employer has changed recently; I'm back in the client game) Dave. --f46d04448141e8f12d04d7324713 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1


On Mar 5, 2013 9:57 AM, "Alexey Melnikov" <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
> I've noticed some surge in activity related to implementing CONDSTORE (RFC 4551)/QRESYNC (RFC 5162) in both clients and servers, so I drafted a new WG charter proposal to update/clarify these:

For the record, I'm keen to get this working group chartered, and I'm in a position to dedicate a reasonable amount of time to it, with the support of my employer.

In particular I'm able to volunteer to co-edit either or both specifications as needed.

(For those who haven't noticed, my employer has changed recently; I'm back in the client game)

Dave.

--f46d04448141e8f12d04d7324713-- From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Tue Mar 5 11:35:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 584B121F8540 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:35:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.617 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.617 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.361, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uVunV6OOE+5s for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:35:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-f169.google.com (mail-ve0-f169.google.com [209.85.128.169]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDAF221F853E for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f169.google.com with SMTP id 15so6016193vea.14 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=9f2srY9Q1RNk0wtCpkkXAUjz9/F/UxOF36FSG04HUsQ=; b=kk727HqmQfUzFmFtfnhHD69r3b4BSOb7TRD6RsWSmy0uAbLu9p3XkDgP/fZ5zeFIgM B+8HJOhkkNJFG4ZdqRYGg3fOOZmPhBdhBi24kmC8fB3d2w/10RrOwzTx614Y45DzH8hQ 0dMHpIEYQwQoP5Y0NvR8gj/vcLFzkEh5br8zeBs4gaXJ9izkTrZIKtRMdxDdurFOcdlk /mfF1bG/hPIJmNiPFEFnMLSlBbMM2Krz4+uwi2qCClyHvCo7iJKJlL9FAnfzKa0RX7Yf UIFbXW/xk5yEBaBNIfGTm6tzhfoJSVVqUOOHTzDyXWvaTLgNp+F2WRHsJyM5S7TK3H0d 873Q== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.69.74 with SMTP id c10mr8851078vdu.3.1362512145280; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.59.3.41 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 11:35:45 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <513642F3.3080904@isode.com> References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <211A410D-C67D-4FF6-AACB-4007F75F7148@iki.fi> <513642F3.3080904@isode.com> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 14:35:45 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: bG-Y0ZFeirx-JfHTarb5V4RiR4E Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Alexey Melnikov Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: Timo Sirainen , "imapext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:35:46 -0000 >> Can we keep it on this mailing list? I've too many mailing lists already. >> :) > > If our ADs are agreeable, the idea is to reuse imapext@ietf.org. Yes, that's my plan as well. It worked well for imapmove. Barry, one of our ADs From groups@maclean.com Tue Mar 5 17:48:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FA3011E80E6 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:48:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_COM=0.553, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ls3mYnEzaZMn for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from cs8-dallas.accountservergroup.com (unknown [108.174.144.176]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFB0411E80A3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 17:48:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool-96-235-221-27.lyncva.east.verizon.net ([96.235.221.27]:50643 helo=Samsung-RF711.maclean.com) by cs8-dallas.accountservergroup.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from ) id 1UD3TF-0000Pm-5w; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:48:41 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 20:47:31 -0500 To: Alexey Melnikov , "imapext@ietf.org" From: Pete Maclean In-Reply-To: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cs8-dallas.accountservergroup.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - maclean.com Message-Id: <20130306014842.AFB0411E80A3@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 01:48:43 -0000 I am at the point of almost completing a QRESYNC implementation in my server and I would very much like to see some clarifications in the spec. I am sorry to say this to an audience that includes its authors but making sense of RFC 5162 proved to be very taxing on my brain. Even now, a colleague and I have differing interpretations of parts of it that we have yet to definitely resolve. Pete Maclean From barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Tue Mar 5 18:06:39 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB2E111E80D2 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:06:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.653 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.653 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.324, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FP5+A7iBySLe for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ve0-f180.google.com (mail-ve0-f180.google.com [209.85.128.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61DB411E80A3 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:06:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ve0-f180.google.com with SMTP id jx10so6261650veb.39 for ; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 18:06:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:sender:in-reply-to:references:date :x-google-sender-auth:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=xwR4WLm+ZjrTceWQIbik0umNJVIgYNuKm16x+39jKOI=; b=LqiukWugBS8iWusRuprgvfkE5RaTqAoMr8OhL/Uu7mDAOayS33wOQrcbzAihVNWSTd zWo0XSCe1a+dZXL7H1QR9xB8sYWWbM1Qk3s4u1hfnCVPpklnQMTFhhJnG7S/ee9a9XLU NWbj47Z89a0OESgyMQKeVaFlXws7edZKISD0ATvkRmfTL6g176yGwmZubmLPSVjYdwQZ yK8tZL2xzE0pusHL18JKuF+T1E/MVm0InLdADxU7EfrGiJ5s5Nmi7W3tlGgtZnDS2T5a ppInDw9pDkz6dNLZEGe/cQ82+dUNMBioznB2FkMr7kIyd8FC5WRSC2Gz20GNzVAl9QqH AHaw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.155.5 with SMTP id vs5mr6159687vdb.24.1362535598810; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 18:06:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: barryleiba.mailing.lists@gmail.com Received: by 10.59.3.41 with HTTP; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:06:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <20130306014842.AFB0411E80A3@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <20130306014842.AFB0411E80A3@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 5 Mar 2013 21:06:38 -0500 X-Google-Sender-Auth: c87M_SN6PadW2SjrJM-WW0MUD7A Message-ID: From: Barry Leiba To: Pete Maclean Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "imapext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:06:40 -0000 > I am at the point of almost completing a QRESYNC implementation in my server > and I would very much like to see some clarifications in the spec. I am > sorry to say this to an audience that includes its authors but making sense > of RFC 5162 proved to be very taxing on my brain. Even now, a colleague and > I have differing interpretations of parts of it that we have yet to > definitely resolve. Please don't be "sorry" to say it: the authors, as much as (or more than) anyone, want to get the spec right. Your recent implementation experience with certainly be critical in determining what's wrong and what needs clarification. Please stick with us, and help fix it. In particular, while we're going through a formal chartering process now, there's no reason to wait for that before posting a list of what parts you had problems with. Alexey's actively working on an update, and he'll start incorporating fixes for your issues right away. Barry From slusarz@horde.org Tue Mar 5 18:54:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B34221F860A for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:54:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gRnG+aEIkPuC for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:43:76:96:30:32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A805721F85FD for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 18:54:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from omta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.27]) by qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 7pDC1l0020b6N64A32ux52; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:54:57 +0000 Received: from bigworm.curecanti.org ([71.229.167.0]) by omta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 82uw1l00800qwSn8P2uwvi; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:54:57 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) (Authenticated sender: slusarz) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 872886A079 for ; Tue, 5 Mar 2013 19:54:55 -0700 (MST) Received: from schrute.curecanti.org (schrute.curecanti.org [172.18.5.4]) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:54:55 -0700 Date: Tue, 05 Mar 2013 19:54:55 -0700 Message-ID: <20130305195455.Horde.N1ImkwPKgAcfZPGunyn_UQ1@bigworm.curecanti.org> From: Michael M Slusarz To: imapext@ietf.org References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <211A410D-C67D-4FF6-AACB-4007F75F7148@iki.fi> In-Reply-To: <211A410D-C67D-4FF6-AACB-4007F75F7148@iki.fi> User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H5 (6.0.5-git) Accept-Language: en X-Originating-IP: 172.18.5.4 X-Remote-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:19.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/19.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1362538497; bh=Wqll3qUdhzTuHI+oglMh1qMXhxkqAWfh9Dlcl5bJLWY=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-ID:From:To: Subject:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=YScnUj3Vh2YiUeok8g4u2v+4Vz7acebJ9anXc99z9RVcVPyo1/7BB0nou0mqTdzIK aSztxFeVVVv6z9XWg8ARcI8wo0cYPAAUSqa9dynVvNjMVFWuVpHYr3No2M9HMboofR uWVe1ztBZn5Q9IXv35KmzjeGrvNUmfeNW+e59q1ebzu4iau/HsY3fpjMN7Pk6tKqCe 2ie76CO4jEMeZa5j5qpMP3MP5UuVpZvlOBSds47nogDbw5a9ZffvS37ckSYlXJZxvW fW/vba9cIzWx3IGDGTc2zv5pzJOrXK1tVH9UMNS5u2u/Ltf2ufj4I5ySpGz05hDqkE Xp1unzddy/2ww== Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 02:54:58 -0000 Quoting Timo Sirainen : > On 5.3.2013, at 16.57, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > >> I've noticed some surge in activity related to implementing >> CONDSTORE (RFC 4551)/QRESYNC (RFC 5162) in both clients and >> servers, so I drafted a new WG charter proposal to update/clarify >> these: > .. >> So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing and >> on the proposed charter text. > > Can we keep it on this mailing list? I've too many mailing lists already. :) > >> I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis >> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which >> addressed most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If >> a new WG is to be formed, I propose that the document is used as >> one of the initial documents. > > Sounds like a good idea. I didn't read it yet, but some > QRESYNC/CONDSTORE things that come to my mind: > > - command length limits as discussed by Michael > - don't allow server to send VANISHED duplicates > - algorithm how server uses the seq/uid mapping could be better to > reduce how much data to send (I was planning on thinking this > through but never got around to it) > - \recent flag changes highestmodseq? probably nobody cares and > makes it more difficult for server. > - condstore: is anyone really using per-flag modseq counters? Adding to Timo's list of things to possibly discuss/consider: - Make VANISHED responses mandatory - or at least an option to allow for this (I think I saw some placeholder text in the draft regarding this) - There was discussion a few weeks ago about whether a server should return "ENABLED QRESYNC" or "ENABLED QRESYNC CONDSTORE" to an "ENABLE QRESYNC" command - Editorial suggestion: A better discussion, or at least a more open discussion, that in practical use servers don't tend to "remember" expunged messages for long. It was a bit confusing and tripped me up as a client author since this implementation detail is sort of buried in the server implementation sections. E.g. Section 3.2 could probably use an example of a server that only remembers expunges over the last 100 modseqs and has consolidated all expunges before that into a single checkpointed stored value. So people aren't as surprised, as I was, the first time they see a VANISHED FETCH of (HIGHESTMODSEQ - 50) that somehow returns tens of thousands of UIDs when in reality only a few were actually expunged in that modseq timeframe. - condstore: this might be more of an implementation tip, but this is valid response in CONDSTORE that is not necessarily intuitive and needs to be handled: a SELECT INBOX (CONDSTORE) [...] * 2 EXISTS * OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 5] Highest a OK [READ-WRITE] SELECT completed. b UID FETCH 5 (UID) * 1 FETCH (UID 5) * 2 FETCH (FLAGS (\Seen) MODSEQ (6)) b OK FETCH completed. michael ___________________________________ Michael Slusarz [slusarz@horde.org] From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Wed Mar 6 02:00:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63D4821F86C4 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:00:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.203 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.203 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sMcUJHfUnz0A for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:00:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B6821F86AF for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 02:00:33 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1362564031; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=41HY6644wE/+xxCXVYNLPp6XaCm3VnAb7QYkWJo5bqg=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=aPIi9/eZAyZo7JJtmWpfaoloXIgWZ0Pb3L5npueLZIPzVk2KVZA+kp22606il6tCOgjznP r+qQou3/hxwSpPkwGnNDUEmK/0jysNrEttkvSICJt3jcQWE3crHMlNJ9VGCjwoefxfYam8 BbGV7xoxceRjjnWfCizpy6ooKvvaeEM=; Received: from [188.28.118.188] (188.28.118.188.threembb.co.uk [188.28.118.188]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:00:29 +0000 References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <20130306014842.AFB0411E80A3@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20130306014842.AFB0411E80A3@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPad Mail (9B206) From: Alexey Melnikov Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:01:27 +0000 To: Pete Maclean MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "imapext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 10:00:45 -0000 Hi Pete, I am very interested to see your list of issues. Please send it either here o= r directly to me (the former is preferred). Best Regards, Alexey On 6 Mar 2013, at 01:47, Pete Maclean wrote: > I am at the point of almost completing a QRESYNC implementation in my serv= er and I would very much like to see some clarifications in the spec. I am s= orry to say this to an audience that includes its authors but making sense o= f RFC 5162 proved to be very taxing on my brain. Even now, a colleague and I= have differing interpretations of parts of it that we have yet to definitel= y resolve. >=20 > Pete Maclean From cyrus@daboo.name Wed Mar 6 07:57:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7479721F8BF6 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:57:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x1JIuLeTJOjp for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:57:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from daboo.name (daboo.name [173.13.55.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB9EA21F8970 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 07:57:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 483D03E9BF2A; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:57:53 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at example.com Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (daboo.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fo1zgbHY9SfC; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:57:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from caldav.corp.apple.com (unknown [17.45.162.46]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 0A1713E9BF1B; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:57:50 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 10:57:47 -0500 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Alexey Melnikov , imapext@ietf.org Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a3 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; size=1197 Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 15:57:54 -0000 Hi Alexey, --On March 5, 2013 at 2:57:25 PM +0000 Alexey Melnikov wrote: > So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing and on > the proposed charter text. > > I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis > (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which addressed > most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If a new WG is to > be formed, I propose that the document is used as one of the initial > documents. What about also doing an update to RFC4549? I think the big thing client implementors want is a single clear specification of extensions that describe how to accurately do mailbox synchronization. To that end I would even argue that we should be looking at pieces to take out to achieve that goal. For example, how many clients actually make use of the condition store piece of CONDSTORE, as opposed to just the SELECT/SEARCH sync operations? Same goes for QRESYNC - what pieces of it have actually been used by clients? Are there bits that could be removed? So I'd like to see more than a simple rev of the documents to fix errata - or at least lets not rule that out right now. -- Cyrus Daboo From dave@cridland.net Wed Mar 6 09:43:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CC2C21F86D2 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:43:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.833, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pUTWxA91Cttb for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:43:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ob0-x231.google.com (mail-ob0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c01::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7723621F860A for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:43:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ob0-f177.google.com with SMTP id eh20so3674252obb.22 for ; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:43:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=jd7xj/etncrGHW+Rjj2gNlMjnLQ8NaPUV0KcWiqvy70=; b=ULVpDArHt3qDeYP8Xs2H3RaeA9u6R3YZOOBiEoSm+ShB7Mw7QQ8irZP6XQkRE1Pxei 6URmu/baj3txBjukOepYr9H57bbH6CHB0xzT9on0tr/bHNNAuZCSwLn5sS2g4ws33vI/ wG1rnwUXpldscZRRePlr/aZqF3pPyvqn0y35U= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=jd7xj/etncrGHW+Rjj2gNlMjnLQ8NaPUV0KcWiqvy70=; b=lYRL3K1YolIhAuMQoRE6H1HjeVxiNgZ9XEqwE25xLI8zfuDTWHDKCueVkEzO8yt+9L UZo3AU+IZ+koeah0Wl3qtP0of2ImtaPNfGgDz3l5thPX9hMSoSLkx+axyvBkN+UO1HOc PEGCaubkAfOIirzPdY3v4VssQ3D8zQRe3izCWJBItMLSV0r6qXJP9fg1kjlO1VtMfEC3 DeicpIOFxiVNdtqWHtRf0QKOsXehcwO8fI0LtOYvHaH0+i3JFJxPqJLshB86Jrvo2tR8 3PgL6HUFfy6d+6tLgwwfoCVvrYn1iXrAzD4N3rjvgkv53NKzl7KWOg9BoS2IQAiTJF4j uS+g== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.182.136.72 with SMTP id py8mr15369421obb.0.1362591822977; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 09:43:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.121.74 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:43:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.60.121.74 with HTTP; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 09:43:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 17:43:42 +0000 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: Cyrus Daboo Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f5039bc9536a004d74521fc X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmkvdCCQ11NZIQBTiYZf74mvR0guwS8254AYIWXKH3t0Qcm2eMIvnJqT+utQ0Wa2lvdr1iV Cc: Alexey Melnikov , imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 17:43:51 -0000 --e89a8f5039bc9536a004d74521fc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 On Mar 6, 2013 10:57 AM, "Cyrus Daboo" wrote: > > Hi Alexey, > > > --On March 5, 2013 at 2:57:25 PM +0000 Alexey Melnikov < alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote: > >> So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing and on >> the proposed charter text. >> >> I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis >> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which addressed >> most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If a new WG is to >> be formed, I propose that the document is used as one of the initial >> documents. > > > What about also doing an update to RFC4549? > > I think the big thing client implementors want is a single clear specification of extensions that describe how to accurately do mailbox synchronization. To that end I would even argue that we should be looking at pieces to take out to achieve that goal. For example, how many clients actually make use of the condition store piece of CONDSTORE, as opposed to just the SELECT/SEARCH sync operations? Same goes for QRESYNC - what pieces of it have actually been used by clients? Are there bits that could be removed? > > So I'd like to see more than a simple rev of the documents to fix errata - or at least lets not rule that out right now. There's certainly unused pieces, like the complex per flag modseq, that can be dropped. I'm not totally sure that general conditional store is something that's so onerous that our needs dropping, though. I'm in ready agreement that the QRESYNC document could use some serious improvements to its prose, too. It was hard to write effectively, not least because the technique was relatively new, and the reviewers were almost entirely server side as I recall. I'm hopeful that with many more client side reviewers we can write a clearer description of how it all works. Dave. --e89a8f5039bc9536a004d74521fc Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Mar 6, 2013 10:57 AM, "Cyrus Daboo" <cyrus@daboo.name> wrote:
>
> Hi Alexey,
>
>
> --On March 5, 2013 at 2:57:25 PM +0000 Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote:<= br> >
>> So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing an= d on
>> the proposed charter text.
>>
>> I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis
>> (= http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which addressed<= br> >> most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If a new WG= is to
>> be formed, I propose that the document is used as one of the initi= al
>> documents.
>
>
> What about also doing an update to RFC4549?
>
> I think the big thing client implementors want is a single clear speci= fication of extensions that describe how to accurately do mailbox synchroni= zation. To that end I would even argue that we should be looking at pieces = to take out to achieve that goal. For example, how many clients actually ma= ke use of the condition store piece of CONDSTORE, as opposed to just the SE= LECT/SEARCH sync operations? Same goes for QRESYNC - what pieces of it have= actually been used by clients? Are there bits that could be removed?
>
> So I'd like to see more than a simple rev of the documents to fix = errata - or at least lets not rule that out right now.

There's certainly unused pieces, like the complex per flag modseq, t= hat can be dropped. I'm not totally sure that general conditional store= is something that's so onerous that our needs dropping, though.

I'm in ready agreement that the QRESYNC document could use some seri= ous improvements to its prose, too. It was hard to write effectively, not l= east because the technique was relatively new, and the reviewers were almos= t entirely server side as I recall. I'm hopeful that with many more cli= ent side reviewers we can write a clearer description of how it all works.<= /p>

Dave.

--e89a8f5039bc9536a004d74521fc-- From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Wed Mar 6 10:10:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C5F9321F89DC for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:10:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fo6xc8eTWqzj for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:10:06 -0800 (PST) Received: from statler.isode.com (statler.isode.com [62.3.217.254]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1799121F89AE for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 10:10:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1362593401; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=G1uvbT42EJaTIbQoNtekT+9dTe0mSgB4HDeG6P//uQs=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=AC4jVbgOFqL+LeKWOifp4aFyo67b7sqzuOD9d5CEaBG73MMZ3/YO/aS16O/wSOU0FZzJ3J zl8jlwDhAEmuJlB97MuDdWzVA5eByqmsNVcXWr05uOiFWgGwTpYkhIS/GM2UByoQGHIcpE U47tdgtb5ISjqoer8bo6KzU4nRJ81ig=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by statler.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 18:10:01 +0000 Message-ID: <5137867C.9070106@isode.com> Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 18:10:04 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 To: Cyrus Daboo References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 18:10:10 -0000 On 06/03/2013 15:57, Cyrus Daboo wrote: > Hi Alexey, > > --On March 5, 2013 at 2:57:25 PM +0000 Alexey Melnikov > wrote: > >> So please comment on whether you think this work is worth doing and on >> the proposed charter text. >> >> I've also posted a new version of RFC 5162bis >> (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-melnikov-5162bis-01), which addressed >> most (but not all) of existing errata on the document. If a new WG is to >> be formed, I propose that the document is used as one of the initial >> documents. > > What about also doing an update to RFC4549? I am not against revising RFC 4549, for example to fold sections from CONDSTORE & QRESYNC into it. But I am somewhat worried to volunteer for something that might drag beyond the end of 2013. I think I would like to hear what other people think about this. > I think the big thing client implementors want is a single clear > specification of extensions that describe how to accurately do mailbox > synchronization. To that end I would even argue that we should be > looking at pieces to take out to achieve that goal. For example, how > many clients actually make use of the condition store piece of > CONDSTORE, as opposed to just the SELECT/SEARCH sync operations? Same > goes for QRESYNC - what pieces of it have actually been used by > clients? Are there bits that could be removed? Per flag modseq is an interesting question to discuss. Another thing I would like to obsolete is the old SEARCH MODSEQ response syntax, I would really like to move to ESEARCH. But these are just some ideas to think about and discuss. > So I'd like to see more than a simple rev of the documents to fix > errata - or at least lets not rule that out right now. Ack. From slusarz@horde.org Wed Mar 6 12:26:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC67821F8CAC for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:26:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FgccP00Q+DLa for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:43:76:96:30:32]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68DE521F8CC5 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:26:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from omta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.36]) by qmta03.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 8Du31l0060mlR8UA3LSies; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:26:42 +0000 Received: from bigworm.curecanti.org ([71.229.167.0]) by omta11.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 8LSf1l00R00qwSn8XLSf1c; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:26:41 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2D0F36A079 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 13:26:39 -0700 (MST) Received: from schrute.curecanti.org (schrute.curecanti.org [172.18.5.4]) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:26:39 -0700 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:26:39 -0700 Message-ID: <20130306132639.Horde.Oocpd2gMfWYIANwy71pLXA3@bigworm.curecanti.org> From: Michael M Slusarz To: imapext@ietf.org References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H5 (6.1.0-git) Accept-Language: en X-Originating-IP: 172.18.5.4 X-Remote-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:19.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/19.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1362601602; bh=LQarLMgcQYn9avYb+Yuob87YQn7V1tHpw7Htt10V7U0=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-ID:From:To: Subject:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=OgyFC5/RJAag1RMtHjGNng78FsXKTfQKIQ3Gn5b+USBKksj1z8K4G2BVjSA2hyCSZ Ub21RMZn/Yr64mbuoe4tiQ1ULVOfdA+mBq/HmOfj9xaBYoQAPrEVccpQ5pM/Eo/kl6 IL5sGEXfRQoHfY3+kIqr82qlTt5wENuEdgeeYPqXEZVz87e+6+QOCXHHXKJ7cI9qEF SdNsN7eOqTe0NvRYw23Vm+bPUvKeQJ1iwXFXiTrGw1vMEJm+SHQrVgluIH2bdWps9k lVIdIGYMHx2B5gAVrzt+I9iFzve/5RP8v8CWA0GeloDE98omhcavtiOChtZSeZoYNX Swonl4Pcm6S8A== Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:26:43 -0000 Quoting Dave Cridland : > On Mar 6, 2013 10:57 AM, "Cyrus Daboo" wrote: >> >> For example, how many clients >> actually make use of the condition store piece of CONDSTORE, as opposed to >> just the SELECT/SEARCH sync operations? > > There's certainly unused pieces, like the complex per flag modseq, that can > be dropped. I'm not totally sure that general conditional store is > something that's so onerous that our needs dropping, though. FWIW, we use it: C: 8 UID STORE 46041 (UNCHANGEDSINCE 70609) +FLAGS \deleted S: * 12 FETCH (UID 46041 MODSEQ (70610) FLAGS (\Deleted \Seen $junk)) S: 8 OK Store completed. michael ___________________________________ Michael Slusarz [slusarz@horde.org] From cyrus@daboo.name Wed Mar 6 12:30:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B5C21F842F for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:30:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aYqtEvUJSIXl for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:30:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from daboo.name (daboo.name [173.13.55.49]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2BB021F841D for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:30:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62F973E9F869; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:30:50 -0500 (EST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at example.com Received: from daboo.name ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (daboo.name [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b47Wrf03U-79; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:30:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from caldav.corp.apple.com (unknown [17.45.162.46]) by daboo.name (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 2C9E83E9F855; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 15:30:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 15:30:40 -0500 From: Cyrus Daboo To: Michael M Slusarz , imapext@ietf.org Message-ID: <1F0CB4240B5D9D75576605C0@caldav.corp.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <20130306132639.Horde.Oocpd2gMfWYIANwy71pLXA3@bigworm.curecanti.org> References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <20130306132639.Horde.Oocpd2gMfWYIANwy71pLXA3@bigworm.curecanti.org> X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.1.0a3 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; size=582 Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:30:51 -0000 Hi Michael, --On March 6, 2013 at 1:26:39 PM -0700 Michael M Slusarz wrote: >> There's certainly unused pieces, like the complex per flag modseq, that >> can be dropped. I'm not totally sure that general conditional store is >> something that's so onerous that our needs dropping, though. > > FWIW, we use it: > > C: 8 UID STORE 46041 (UNCHANGEDSINCE 70609) +FLAGS \deleted > S: * 12 FETCH (UID 46041 MODSEQ (70610) FLAGS (\Deleted \Seen $junk)) > S: 8 OK Store completed. What do you do when there is a failure due to a conflicting change? -- Cyrus Daboo From slusarz@horde.org Wed Mar 6 12:40:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2441D21F8AC3 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:40:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.437 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.437 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, FH_RELAY_NODNS=1.451, HELO_MISMATCH_NET=0.611, RDNS_NONE=0.1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EqHv+izPCzPg for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net (qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net [IPv6:2001:558:fe2d:43:76:96:30:16]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8DC921F8AB2 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:40:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from omta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net ([76.96.30.19]) by qmta01.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 8EsB1l0080QkzPwA1LgddF; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:40:37 +0000 Received: from bigworm.curecanti.org ([71.229.167.0]) by omta02.emeryville.ca.mail.comcast.net with comcast id 8Lgc1l00M00qwSn8NLgcxn; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:40:37 +0000 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A122F6A079 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 13:40:05 -0700 (MST) Received: from schrute.curecanti.org (schrute.curecanti.org [172.18.5.4]) by bigworm.curecanti.org (Horde Framework) with HTTP; Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:40:05 -0700 Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 13:40:05 -0700 Message-ID: <20130306134005.Horde.a0HnnakGKoRhjEAWcc-Bsg6@bigworm.curecanti.org> From: Michael M Slusarz To: imapext@ietf.org References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <20130306132639.Horde.Oocpd2gMfWYIANwy71pLXA3@bigworm.curecanti.org> <1F0CB4240B5D9D75576605C0@caldav.corp.apple.com> In-Reply-To: <1F0CB4240B5D9D75576605C0@caldav.corp.apple.com> User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H5 (6.1.0-git) Accept-Language: en X-Originating-IP: 172.18.5.4 X-Remote-Browser: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:19.0) Gecko/20100101 Firefox/19.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed; DelSp=Yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Disposition: inline DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=comcast.net; s=q20121106; t=1362602437; bh=oZG+9SnUCB8zzFVlxzM3KwrDI7xBQ8xtXGnTORSsoHg=; h=Received:Received:Received:Received:Date:Message-ID:From:To: Subject:Content-Type:MIME-Version; b=oARB6g49pGYaaB107/Yrdg98NoAHEZwe7ozi7RdFDARUu+UejF37NPy22Da2fbC8Y 7bcX+P+XQEnbdX+vEv3vUe7URxWZhWhcWJIEsh812vKWr66KkB5ay1f2oHAlAlHgoK XR7YYwDWqWUB5rAnfhwbuWgM0NogjyoXue6g9gbimFQUzcBSw/F8XqyQWvn6Xt2a5y OrEAsVKqhXrV13nCuUrwI/KNwAmai6oWmulElsIrazG4dxkVFNVkUjm5qzbKkRMWAf a4n/jWSiLu6jVkguGF9m92tuNJywPFG9xcPGi3TSGEhMAbJ9ODPkqev3brMcMkRmkr vucG3nXwBPNCw== Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:40:38 -0000 Quoting Cyrus Daboo : >> C: 8 UID STORE 46041 (UNCHANGEDSINCE 70609) +FLAGS \deleted >> S: * 12 FETCH (UID 46041 MODSEQ (70610) FLAGS (\Deleted \Seen $junk)) >> S: 8 OK Store completed. > > What do you do when there is a failure due to a conflicting change? Refresh mailbox/message view with new flag state; generic error message to user to the effect of "[mailbox actions: at least one message flag/message actions: the flags] could not be set as another process has changed the message flags on the server". Probably a bit techie in terms of language, but this is also not a common occurrence so I haven't really felt the need to tweak. I think we ignore for delete actions, but I can't recall for sure. michael ___________________________________ Michael Slusarz [slusarz@horde.org] From tss@iki.fi Wed Mar 6 12:48:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A003311E810B for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:48:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hEW3j0ciIt8u for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:48:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from dovecot.org (dovecot.org [193.210.130.67]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B422211E80E5 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:47:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.58.34.124] (gprs-internet-bceea3-124.dhcp.inet.fi [188.238.163.124]) by dovecot.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1D081AE835C; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 22:47:55 +0200 (EET) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 6.2 \(1499\)) From: Timo Sirainen In-Reply-To: <20130306134005.Horde.a0HnnakGKoRhjEAWcc-Bsg6@bigworm.curecanti.org> Date: Wed, 6 Mar 2013 22:47:54 +0200 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <513607D5.4090808@isode.com> <20130306132639.Horde.Oocpd2gMfWYIANwy71pLXA3@bigworm.curecanti.org> <1F0CB4240B5D9D75576605C0@caldav.corp.apple.com> <20130306134005.Horde.a0HnnakGKoRhjEAWcc-Bsg6@bigworm.curecanti.org> To: Michael M Slusarz X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1499) Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:48:01 -0000 On 6.3.2013, at 22.40, Michael M Slusarz wrote: > Quoting Cyrus Daboo : >=20 >>> C: 8 UID STORE 46041 (UNCHANGEDSINCE 70609) +FLAGS \deleted >>> S: * 12 FETCH (UID 46041 MODSEQ (70610) FLAGS (\Deleted \Seen = $junk)) >>> S: 8 OK Store completed. >>=20 >> What do you do when there is a failure due to a conflicting change? >=20 > Refresh mailbox/message view with new flag state; generic error = message to user to the effect of "[mailbox actions: at least one message = flag/message actions: the flags] could not be set as another process has = changed the message flags on the server". Probably a bit techie in = terms of language, but this is also not a common occurrence so I haven't = really felt the need to tweak. >=20 > I think we ignore for delete actions, but I can't recall for sure. I don't really see any point in using UNCHANGEDSINCE for any system = flags. For \Seen you've clearly seen it even if someone else has done = something with the message. For \Deleted you've clearly decided it's not = worth having the message. For \Answered you've again clearly answered = the message regardless of what someone else may have done. \Draft = probably should be only used in APPEND. \Flagged is probably usually = also something you don't care if someone else has changed the flags, but = depending on use I guess there could be a reason.. Now, for custom keywords there can be a ton of possibilities for = UNCHANGEDSINCE. So I'm not interested in removing that feature. The = per-flag modseqs seem quite pointless though (I still haven't really = understood how they even work, not that I've really tried to either). From adrien@qbik.com Wed Mar 6 12:51:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 886C91F0C74 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:51:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IHZArnJ-Kim3 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:51:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.qbik.com (smtp.qbik.com [210.55.214.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD9B921F88C1 for ; Wed, 6 Mar 2013 12:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: From [192.168.0.10] (unverified [192.168.0.10]) by SMTP Server [192.168.0.1] (WinGate SMTP Receiver v7.5.0 (Build 3505)) with SMTP id <0019554960@smtp.qbik.com>; Thu, 07 Mar 2013 09:51:22 +1300 From: "Adrien W. de Croy" To: "Timo Sirainen" , "Michael M Slusarz" Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:51:23 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: eM_Client/5.0.17595.0 Cc: "imapext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Adrien W. de Croy" List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Mar 2013 20:51:48 -0000 I've also been researching on and off support for QRESYNC. It's fairly=20 involved, especially relating to storing historic data about expunged=20 records. So any clarification that would make implementation easier I'd= =20 be keen on. We've had CONDSTORE for quite some time. We didn't implement per-flag mod sequences, I didn't see any point. Do any clients use it? I'd be very interested to know which clients support QRESYNC. Regards Adrien ------ Original Message ------ From: "Timo Sirainen" To: "Michael M Slusarz" Cc: "imapext@ietf.org" Sent: 7/03/2013 9:47:54 a.m. Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise=20 CONDSTORE & QRESYNC >On 6.3.2013, at 22.40, Michael M Slusarz wrote: > >> Quoting Cyrus Daboo : >> >>>> C: 8 UID STORE 46041 (UNCHANGEDSINCE 70609) +FLAGS \deleted >>>> S: * 12 FETCH (UID 46041 MODSEQ (70610) FLAGS (\Deleted \Seen=20 >>>>$junk)) >>>> S: 8 OK Store completed. >>> >>> What do you do when there is a failure due to a conflicting change? >> >> Refresh mailbox/message view with new flag state; generic error=20 >>message to user to the effect of "[mailbox actions: at least one=20 >>message flag/message actions: the flags] could not be set as another=20 >>process has changed the message flags on the server". Probably a bit=20 >>techie in terms of language, but this is also not a common occurrence=20 >>so I haven't really felt the need to tweak. >> >> I think we ignore for delete actions, but I can't recall for sure. > >I don't really see any point in using UNCHANGEDSINCE for any system=20 >flags. For \Seen you've clearly seen it even if someone else has done=20 >something with the message. For \Deleted you've clearly decided it's=20 >not worth having the message. For \Answered you've again clearly=20 >answered the message regardless of what someone else may have done.=20 >\Draft probably should be only used in APPEND. \Flagged is probably=20 >usually also something you don't care if someone else has changed the=20 >flags, but depending on use I guess there could be a reason.. > >Now, for custom keywords there can be a ton of possibilities for=20 >UNCHANGEDSINCE. So I'm not interested in removing that feature. The=20 >per-flag modseqs seem quite pointless though (I still haven't really=20 >understood how they even work, not that I've really tried to either). > >_______________________________________________ >imapext mailing list >imapext@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext From alexey.melnikov@isode.com Thu Mar 7 05:50:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B533F21F8CD3 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 05:50:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DV5LdMGfVK+a for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 05:50:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (cl-125.lon-03.gb.sixxs.net [IPv6:2a00:14f0:e000:7c::2]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B7AC21F8B1C for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 05:50:26 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1362664224; d=isode.com; s=selector; i=@isode.com; bh=786v0Em1HXC1PtpjX43obXD5q+NWdUfk2/w7wfd2JFY=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=Qdt0v+upV/vmVRI5GSB0RihAiN4azuG1Hl9DV8uxJe7BMAHDKMAsYYefX1EdW5YG7OwMUX 3pPT+Hc/lwzLp0i2p4l0cegcpF3zdOD4hTCWLc4FyqL+kVfyt6TY4oQIIOhCHOsOxC6wdV 6pu3mDEFb8VJ1PEuQCykpBdQRrEivHM=; Received: from [172.16.1.29] (shiny.isode.com [62.3.217.250]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPA id ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 13:50:24 +0000 Message-ID: <51387114.4070305@isode.com> Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 10:51:00 +0000 From: Alexey Melnikov User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:13.0) Gecko/20120614 Thunderbird/13.0.1 To: "imapext@ietf.org" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [imapext] rfc4551bis conversion from text to XML X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 13:50:31 -0000 Is there a kind soul that can convert my textual copy of rfc4551bis to XML? I can guarantee an acknowledgment and a beer (or an alternative drink of your choice) at one of IETF meetings. Also, if people can point me to a tool that might help with the conversion process, that would be awesome as well. From jkt@flaska.net Thu Mar 7 06:31:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1795521F8C16 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 06:31:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4efqfdBfoohj for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 06:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from latimerie.flaska.net (latimerie.flaska.net [IPv6:2a02:2b88:2:1::4a7:333]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7932321F87D2 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 06:31:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by latimerie.flaska.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id DA9D260A30; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:31:37 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= To: Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 15:31:38 +0100 User-Agent: trojita/v0.3.92-5-g31c56ea; Qt/4.8.4; X11; Linux; MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [imapext] =?iso-8859-1?q?_Re=3A_Proposal_for_a_new_IMAP_Working_G?= =?iso-8859-1?q?roup_to_revise_CONDSTORE_=26_QRESYNC?= X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 14:31:42 -0000 On Wednesday, 6 March 2013 21:51:23 CEST, Adrien W. de Croy wrote:=0A> = I'd be very interested to know which clients support QRESYNC.=0A=0AI lo= oked at some mobile clients in my thesis last summer [1]. The results c= an be summarized roughly like this:=0A=0A- Trojita supports QRESYNC, of= course.=0A=0A- QRESYNC is supported by Modest/Tinymail (Nokia N900) an= d the QMF (Nokia N9, N950 -- the MeeGo Harmattan series).=0A=0A- CONDST= ORE (only) is supported by iOS.=0A=0A- Android's stock client doesn't s= upport anything; K9 doesn't have any support for CONDSTORE/QRESYNC, eit= her.=0A=0A- Thunderbird's source code contains references to CONDSTORE,= so it looks like it supports it, but not QRESYNC.=0A=0AHope this helps= ,=0AJan=0A=0A[1] http://trojita.flaska.net/msc-thesis.pdf=0A=0A-- =0ATr= ojit=C3=A1, a fast Qt IMAP e-mail client -- http://trojita.flaska.net/ From adrien@qbik.com Thu Mar 7 15:45:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4790B21F86BE for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:45:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-2.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xoeb+CvIcJd2 for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:45:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp.qbik.com (smtp.qbik.com [210.55.214.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B7821F854E for ; Thu, 7 Mar 2013 15:45:46 -0800 (PST) Received: From [192.168.0.10] (unverified [192.168.0.10]) by SMTP Server [192.168.0.1] (WinGate SMTP Receiver v7.5.0 (Build 3507)) with SMTP id <0019558526@smtp.qbik.com>; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 12:45:44 +1300 From: "Adrien W. de Croy" To: =?utf-8?q?Jan=20Kundr=c3=a1t?= , "imapext@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 23:45:43 +0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=utf-8 In-Reply-To: Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: eM_Client/5.0.17595.0 Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: "Adrien W. de Croy" List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Mar 2013 23:45:50 -0000 Thanks for that Jan did you check recent versions of iOS? anyone else know of any common desktop clients supporting QRESYNC? I did a wee audit a while ago and got * Horde_Imap_Client * RoundCubeMail (0.7-beta onwards) * em Client Adrien ------ Original Message ------ From: "Jan Kundr=C3=A1t" To: "imapext@ietf.org" Sent: 8/03/2013 3:31:38 a.m. Subject: [imapext] Re: Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise=20 CONDSTORE & QRESYNC >On Wednesday, 6 March 2013 21:51:23 CEST, Adrien W. de Croy wrote: >>I'd be very interested to know which clients support QRESYNC. > >I looked at some mobile clients in my thesis last summer [1]. The=20 >results can be summarized roughly like this: > >- Trojita supports QRESYNC, of course. > >- QRESYNC is supported by Modest/Tinymail (Nokia N900) and the QMF=20 >(Nokia N9, N950 -- the MeeGo Harmattan series). > >- CONDSTORE (only) is supported by iOS. > >- Android's stock client doesn't support anything; K9 doesn't have any=20 >support for CONDSTORE/QRESYNC, either. > >- Thunderbird's source code contains references to CONDSTORE, so it=20 >looks like it supports it, but not QRESYNC. > >Hope this helps, >Jan > >[1] http://trojita.flaska.net/msc-thesis.pdf > >-- Trojit=C3=A1, a fast Qt IMAP e-mail client -- http://trojita.flaska.net= / >_______________________________________________ >imapext mailing list >imapext@ietf.org >https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext From jkt@flaska.net Fri Mar 8 01:26:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B59421F86A1 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 01:26:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id S2g+0aVmxNbP for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 01:25:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from latimerie.flaska.net (latimerie.flaska.net [IPv6:2a02:2b88:2:1::4a7:333]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B02C21F863A for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 01:25:57 -0800 (PST) Received: by latimerie.flaska.net (Postfix, from userid 1000) id AB00360A31; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 10:25:53 +0100 (CET) From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= To: Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 10:25:52 +0100 User-Agent: trojita/v0.3.92-5-g31c56ea; Qt/4.8.4; X11; Linux; MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <0ed10920-9204-49f7-a98a-4851e18a27f2@flaska.net> In-Reply-To: References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [imapext] =?iso-8859-1?q?_Re=3A_Proposal_for_a_new_IMAP_Working_G?= =?iso-8859-1?q?roup_to_revise_CONDSTORE_=26_QRESYNC?= X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 09:26:02 -0000 On Friday, 8 March 2013 00:45:43 CEST, Adrien W. de Croy wrote:=0A> did= you check recent versions of iOS?=0A=0AWhat I did was looking at the p= ublicly available information in their changelogs, release notes and de= veloper information. The CONDSTORE was documented as being added in som= e version, but there was no such information about the QRESYNC.=0A=0AWi= th kind regards,=0AJan=0A=0A-- =0ATrojit=C3=A1, a fast Qt IMAP e-mail c= lient -- http://trojita.flaska.net/ From dave@cridland.net Fri Mar 8 06:18:52 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6018B21F86A1 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:18:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.411 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.411 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.267, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nY0wAh8ZsJr2 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-vb0-x229.google.com (mail-vb0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c02::229]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF20521F85D6 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:18:47 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-vb0-f41.google.com with SMTP id l22so682458vbn.0 for ; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 06:18:39 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=0XkV8bNYFoVvqFL271Dq6kzwAk4xOoa+i+eOP+YwZhQ=; b=LWh47Y41A3J/zybPrWbdzst/Pss9KTjsgkR4NLU0VrvgyOV0IiK7SklK/ejUlo2Z3O QFDHH5oOUaVqsWkiRqC9iHaupStWrojq87RK6QOfyIoSpJwwBB7MF/9CUY9fr7ySScCd DqWOaLWR9AzqgMbRI5BtY3o0IQ0FuZIeH65j8= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:x-received:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id :subject:from:to:cc:content-type:x-gm-message-state; bh=0XkV8bNYFoVvqFL271Dq6kzwAk4xOoa+i+eOP+YwZhQ=; b=ZGKP8eUkfMbgJgl5md2DQIUblZZ6g/ANylJVgxUZ8f96gVBUkMaJ83FT3DGmp3h/VH PjWTqPlxsVkWaqniYQWS3wkMOjtNc40q6HFsMnTp9SE/pUch0Qm0yONFA2AE1OQO55gV v1pg9D8SCjhzoQeMV7BeWZ7OVk8zeF60VrTWX6obAi1XVpK4aFB22kacsxstVrC7TJ1v +1Rn0tv52U0in713EYBQ43W7lVjbs16UL1hpliPiirSUcUin4pU/67DxcAy4+FuDuI0f dB6/Y5ShD2pKq2eu5JhYhj7iGMd2onQMQGcEAqUJaoLn+aFkyymOyiG9LmG5WaP1kSXl M+zQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.52.155.228 with SMTP id vz4mr883604vdb.5.1362752319561; Fri, 08 Mar 2013 06:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.117.67 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:18:39 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.58.117.67 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:18:39 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <0ed10920-9204-49f7-a98a-4851e18a27f2@flaska.net> References: <0ed10920-9204-49f7-a98a-4851e18a27f2@flaska.net> Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 09:18:39 -0500 Message-ID: From: Dave Cridland To: =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jan_Kundr=E1t?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=bcaec53aee9eecb21c04d76a7f22 X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQk1QC/juDJC/4796ufIfLMutSbIPP+973XHllXgEBYglp2In5xCS0++u3YcLvhrof0MfBB6 Cc: imapext@ietf.org Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:18:52 -0000 --bcaec53aee9eecb21c04d76a7f22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 8 Mar 2013 04:26, "Jan Kundr=E1t" wrote: > > On Friday, 8 March 2013 00:45:43 CEST, Adrien W. de Croy wrote: >> >> did you check recent versions of iOS? > > > What I did was looking at the publicly available information in their changelogs, release notes and developer information. The CONDSTORE was documented as being added in some version, but there was no such information about the QRESYNC. I have to admit I thought QRESYNC was in there - is anyone with an iPhone and a QRESYNC-supporting mailserver able to check? Dave. --bcaec53aee9eecb21c04d76a7f22 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On 8 Mar 2013 04:26, "Jan Kundr=E1t" <jkt@flaska.net> wrote:
>
> On Friday, 8 March 2013 00:45:43 CEST, Adrien W. de Croy wrote:
>>
>> did you check recent versions of iOS?
>
>
> What I did was looking at the publicly available information in their = changelogs, release notes and developer information. The CONDSTORE was docu= mented as being added in some version, but there was no such information ab= out the QRESYNC.

I have to admit I thought QRESYNC was in there - is anyone w= ith an iPhone and a QRESYNC-supporting mailserver able to check?

Dave.

--bcaec53aee9eecb21c04d76a7f22-- From aclark@ghoti.org Fri Mar 8 06:50:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: imapext@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1663121F85B4 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:50:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gj97rt-Sum+D for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from calypso.ghoti.org (calypso.ghoti.org [173.255.202.253]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F47A21F8514 for ; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:50:27 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by calypso.ghoti.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1314B210103; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:50:27 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at ghoti.org Received: from calypso.ghoti.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (calypso.ghoti.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zBNV19dM__VP; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:50:22 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.180.73.207] (102.sub-70-199-75.myvzw.com [70.199.75.102]) by calypso.ghoti.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 893F32100FE; Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:50:22 -0800 (PST) References: <0ed10920-9204-49f7-a98a-4851e18a27f2@flaska.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-2C00EC4F-0391-4DED-96E4-B8F0B5960C4F; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (10B322) From: Ashley Clark Date: Fri, 8 Mar 2013 06:50:21 -0800 To: Dave Cridland Cc: =?GB2312?Q?Jan_Kundr=A8=A2t?= , "imapext@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [imapext] Proposal for a new IMAP Working Group to revise CONDSTORE & QRESYNC X-BeenThere: imapext@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: Discussion of IMAP extensions List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Mar 2013 14:50:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail-2C00EC4F-0391-4DED-96E4-B8F0B5960C4F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D5227D6B-83A7-4A0D-9A99-98B09A257736 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --Apple-Mail-D5227D6B-83A7-4A0D-9A99-98B09A257736 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable iOS added support for CONDSTORE in 4.0. It does not support QRESYNC. =E2=80=93Ashley On Mar 8, 2013, at 6:18 AM, Dave Cridland wrote: >=20 > On 8 Mar 2013 04:26, "Jan Kundr=C3=A1t" wrote: > > > > On Friday, 8 March 2013 00:45:43 CEST, Adrien W. de Croy wrote: > >> > >> did you check recent versions of iOS? > > > > > > What I did was looking at the publicly available information in their ch= angelogs, release notes and developer information. The CONDSTORE was documen= ted as being added in some version, but there was no such information about t= he QRESYNC. >=20 > I have to admit I thought QRESYNC was in there - is anyone with an iPhone a= nd a QRESYNC-supporting mailserver able to check? >=20 > Dave. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > imapext mailing list > imapext@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/imapext --Apple-Mail-D5227D6B-83A7-4A0D-9A99-98B09A257736 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
iOS added support for CONDSTORE in 4.0= . It does not support QRESYNC.

=E2=80=93Ashley

On Mar 8, 2013, at 6:18 AM, Dave Cridland <dave@cridland.net> wrote:


On 8 Mar 2013 04:26, "Jan Kundr=C3=A1t" <jkt@flaska.net> wrote:
>
> On Friday, 8 March 2013 00:45:43 CEST, Adrien W. de Croy wrote:
>>
>> did you check recent versions of iOS?
>
>
> What I did was looking at the publicly available information in their c= hangelogs, release notes and developer information. The CONDSTORE was docume= nted as being added in some version, but there was no such information about= the QRESYNC.

I have to admit I thought QRESYNC was in there - is anyone wi= th an iPhone and a QRESYNC-supporting mailserver able to check?

Dave.

____________________= ___________________________
imapext mailing list
<= span>imapext@ietf.org
https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/imapext
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