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Thread-Index: AQHSqfSos1f70z39pEiy56Z0WIwUU6Gu1o4QgAApDICAAADwEIAA+EKAgABjUkA= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:10:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1d67d033-8a0f-c7eb-ae37-ec99f5a34660@kit.edu> <5fbcf078-4e05-3ea8-01a8-e0228659eb86@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: <5fbcf078-4e05-3ea8-01a8-e0228659eb86@bogus.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: bogus.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;bogus.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:722F8740BA1462219E1C552C232275C56BF8A5683CD28AF81CAF9F5C399F90FA; UpperCasedChecksum:24B818ADA40473105344ABD5F292BFEC760596A7225C756A039CA0406B755D01; SizeAsReceived:8631; Count:42 x-tmn: [heXCtTskPFJRsJsRfBwmApQ8ygQ0yVEW] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR03HT246; 5:6dS75x0+AsawZ6DX1pBJM12cJGcwfkO6zL9LB3PHyveckCpjwbx+hGm456KqWxaWEnaKwzUl/eqjXzERkTokfI+rGh+n1wEaqxUKNb5kNiGXVNSO2AGuVlmDkpTjNQB8BC1ilpoteecBqiUF/AmvSw==; 24:+aXPRtdN9ykh5MSpX6PUfZPSMVwOym6goZsLc0MTHD8KQWz0oOlXArE/vxd+SdCYn3mlYwlex0SR9gyMLUDX2nQ+hLzkRIYkHV49tFMj9cw=; 7:pcdfoobG+gcanAHiLkxHLmQAbil5XqDHUQcJ0U1ow+nyn1aYSJeBoEOeYFteehL/ZMrQnJAqWWxBwmAQMnI1V5Ki6n9y47HHN3uCSCRsK18RN9hoM2OXOFsuNmCpVyv5klf21aLFUJT+sJ/jjdvyAVKMJcws0H0yryBP5BgDRjhe48+Q+1epr5Vn3p4Ysxxjq9uaJeIe9E8XuNM2Vi7SNIb1Fn2NixRRR4PEP0GuNGZl0viVraoc2yQ4/8b7Su/OuYUYGdAblLsRvj1E64kUIdAp3XYi6Mrct7RNcV1zCKOjxe+rh4YSdfqx4UgPnsYy x-incomingheadercount: 42 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT246; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c2fc2b4c-427c-4693-f35b-08d478efb0df x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322274)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT246; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT246; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT246; x-forefront-prvs: 0264FEA5C3 spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Apr 2017 11:10:22.4855 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR03HT246 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 11:10:27 -0000 Joel, The idea is to let devices handling the IPv10 packet to understand what is = the IP address stored within the IPv10 packet whether it is an IPv4 or an I= Pv6 address, the field size is fixed (128-bit) so in case of an IPv4 addres= s, the 1st 96-bits should be 0s, once a device finds out these 0s in the 1s= t 96-bits, and a binary stream in the 2nd 32-bits, it must understand that = this address is an IPv4 address, it is that easy. =20 -----Original Message----- From: joel jaeggli [mailto:joelja@bogus.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:11 AM To: Khaled Omar; Tom Herbert Cc: int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. On 3/31/17 09:24, Khaled Omar wrote: >> "all OSs will be updated to support IPv10 which is an easy task"... >>> What makes you think it is ever an easy task to get all OSes to=20 >>> uniformly support anything? Please provide an implementation so we=20 >>> can evaluate the prospects. >=20 > For the 2nd time: >=20 > "I shouldn't list all devices that need to support IPv10, simply,=20 > anything will process a L3 packet, should understand that the IPv10=20 > packet can contain a mixture of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses." Assuming for the sake of argument that I am designing a forwarding asic. When I pass over the ethertype code in the frame, I decide what forwarding = lookup path I am going to exercise the ipv4 or ipv6 one. If i choose door n= umber 1 the ipv4 path due to 0x0800 and destination mac being me the byte= offset for the source is 12 and the destination is 4 bytes later at byte o= ffset 16. if these fields are of variable length then a 16 byte source addr= ess overflows the fixed offset where the destination is supposed and the = destination address is lost to me because it's where optional fields might = otherwise be. If I choose the v6 path due to 0x86DD then I find the source address addres= s at byte 8 and the destination beginning at byte 24 there, there are of co= urse several ways to represent a an ipv4 mapped address within ipv6, none o= f them are of any use to an native ipv4 speaker. The fields in the packet header are not self-described (they could be, pack= et header could be json for example but in the interest of performance the= y were / are not), therefore in the interestes of clarity a new ethertype = for ipv10 with either a fixed size source and destination address size or = a whay of specifying the offset, and a bit or multiple bit field for the AF= of both the source and destination would greatly facilitate the design of = a parser that would be able to handle the selection of AF for lookup. at th= e point you've go an entirely new header which is not compatible with eithe= r V4 or V6 parsers. in practical terms that means the useful deployment of = a v10 compatible parser at internet scale is approximately as hard as deplo= ying the the v6 compatible parser would be if we started now instead of in = 1995 when the internet was much smaller. joel >=20 > -----Original Message----- From: Tom Herbert=20 > [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 4:19 PM To: > Khaled Omar Cc: Bless, Roland (TM); int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: > [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. >=20 > On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 5:13 AM, Khaled Omar=20 > wrote: >>> As has been stated again and again. Your proposal would have been=20 >>> interesting if it was presented in 1995, or perhaps even in 2000. >>=20 >> FYI, IPv10 will allow IPv4 to communicate to IPv6 and vice versa, how=20 >> can it be interesting if it was presented before IPv6 was even=20 >> developed ! >>=20 >>> Most likely, even if Microsoft could be convinced that IPv10 is=20 >>> something they need to support, this would only happen in Windows=20 >>> 10. Then we have the rest of the ecosystem with access routers, load=20 >>> balancers, SAVI-functionality for BCP38 compliance in access=20 >>> devices, core routers etc. >>=20 >> Please, let's not be against ourselves, all OSs will be updated to=20 >> support IPv10 which is an easy task, OSs will not require support for=20 >> a new IP version like IPv6, they will just be enabled to support the=20 >> encapsulation of both version on the same L3 packet header. >=20 > "all OSs will be updated to support IPv10 which is an easy task"...=20 > What makes you think it is ever an easy task to get all OSes to=20 > uniformly support anything? Please provide an implementation so we can=20 > evaluate the prospects. >=20 > Tom >=20 >>=20 >> Also, networking devices will be upgraded to understand the new >> IPv10 packet, I said earlier I don't mind If the process will take=20 >> some time but we should eventually reach consensus, I shouldn't list=20 >> all devices that need to support IPv10, simply, anything will process=20 >> a L3 packet, should understand that the IPv10 packet can contain a=20 >> mixture of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- From: Int-area=20 >> [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bless, Roland (TM) >> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 9:51 AM To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: >> int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. >>=20 >> Hi Mikael, >>=20 >> thanks for clarifying again, everything +1! >>=20 >> Regards, Roland >>=20 >> Am 31.03.2017 um 08:17 schrieb Mikael Abrahamsson: >>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017, Khaled Omar wrote: >>>=20 >>>> You can read the IPv10 I-D again and all your concerns will be =20 >>>> obvious, I don't mind if you have already a series of new questions=20 >>>> that will add a new value to the discussion but the time to deploy=20 >>>> IPv10 is an important factor. >>>>=20 >>>> We need consensus after understanding how IPv10 works and how it=20 >>>> will be deployed. >>>=20 >>> As has been stated again and again. Your proposal would have been =20 >>> interesting if it was presented in 1995, or perhaps even in 2000. >>>=20 >>> Let me give you an IPv6 deployment timeline: >>>=20 >>> Standards were worked out in the mid 90-ties, afterwards operating=20 >>> system vendors started working on it and "real" support started=20 >>> cropping up in the early to mid 2000:nds, with a large milestone=20 >>> being Windows Vista in 2006, where as far as I know this was the=20 >>> first widely used consumer operating system to implement this. It=20 >>> then took until Windows 7 timeframe around >>> 2010 before people started moving off of Windows XP in ernest, and=20 >>> we're still seeing Windows XP in non-trivial numbers. So now in 2017=20 >>> we're seeing most operating systems have comprehensive (albeit=20 >>> perhaps not as well-tested as we would like) support for IPv6,=20 >>> where the application ecosystem still has a way to go. >>> We're still working on better APIs to handle the dual-stackedness=20 >>> problem. >>>=20 >>> Most likely, even if Microsoft could be convinced that IPv10 is=20 >>> something they need to support, this would only happen in Windows=20 >>> 10. Then we have the rest of the ecosystem with access routers, load=20 >>> balancers, SAVI-functionality for BCP38 compliance in access=20 >>> devices, core routers etc. Most of these will require a hardware=20 >>> fork-lift in order to support your proposal, because they do not=20 >>> forward packets in a CPU, they forward it in purpose-designed=20 >>> hardware that is a lot less flexible in what they can do. >>>=20 >>> So even if we all united now (which won't happen) around your >>> IPv10 proposal, it would take 5-10 years before the first devices=20 >>> out on the market had support for it. Probably 5-10 years after that=20 >>> before support is widely available. >>>=20 >>> IPv10 would delay and confuse deployment of something that is not=20 >>> IPv4. While IPv6 is not perfect, there are now hundreds of millions=20 >>> of devices on the Internet with IPv6 access. It's proven to work,=20 >>> it's not perfect, but we have a decently good idea what to do to=20 >>> make it better. >>>=20 >>> IPv10 is only injecting FUD into where we need to go debate, which=20 >>> is IPv6 deployment for all. >>>=20 >>> Please stop. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list=20 >> Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list=20 >> Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list=20 > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 From nobody Sat Apr 1 04:12:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62AC4127286 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 04:12:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.147 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9gPvKIiUt5ia for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 04:12:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092071105.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.71.105]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91908126C89 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 04:12:50 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=Vu/xfzuLaQVSot5sekBoqqYIsz+gNYSYD5B4hZviQjM=; b=BS0ttdfMbqK0IqBHWbCKd9TrqWYmB1YLj/0HUm9rdV0s+31cAjspy9KKxKJYVxwplNzU/LKxOI/jqCyxHYx1DlWn2I3jBHNtjLD9DfL/qNur7QsrwgYc8xjOvoU7sWg+ajv3OXTq3hh03fC6RZail1x3q6Kq2COksZrxkbqxiGzUcTPxGP7Zm4w7HuDpj/fQ5jHHZjC6X5FNyYM5Q9Z8413aIXP6mF7iC4giw++gVScwk+FLLQev+tg6qxW3ZLb8gsIZGTUvcz2LobPBwJsCN8Yxnn7jJZ6ypuLYxL+l6qirCWKZZf+V9tT1WEYHg+EhAhzn6PL0WUnvbhbleEOS8Q== Received: from AM5EUR03FT039.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.16.51) by AM5EUR03HT013.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.16.97) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.977.7; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:12:48 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.16.58) by AM5EUR03FT039.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.17.185) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1005.5 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:12:48 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1005.016; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:12:48 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: joel jaeggli CC: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. Thread-Index: AQHSqfSos1f70z39pEiy56Z0WIwUU6Gu1o4QgAApDICAAADwEIAA+EKAgABkx4A= Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:12:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1d67d033-8a0f-c7eb-ae37-ec99f5a34660@kit.edu> <5fbcf078-4e05-3ea8-01a8-e0228659eb86@bogus.com> In-Reply-To: <5fbcf078-4e05-3ea8-01a8-e0228659eb86@bogus.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: bogus.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;bogus.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:D37254C92D377975DE86A6C710C026B01395AAAB044193DA3A1284E095582316; UpperCasedChecksum:46699EB1EC2E7E06BA161F1848F20E1959A5FD4F1A9B4710D1EF164CD267FB27; SizeAsReceived:8632; Count:42 x-tmn: [1TqNK4qNf1TW3iuMeLLVx9AsVIqD7nXW] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR03HT013; 5:fKLphjJKlcpq5A708e4ALrjFuo2KyGjWoY6f+UE66XUXWp5yMniecpnenEIq6+XdQRcUK7+MYIk2eGBKUuwyQilDGsSoLfKZIGCGzzs9eMv7tEqM/Fan3azZng4vIejAsGFt2rIgu3WongQYMwdgwQ==; 24:Bsi5S1W+jeq1RcjGGkOoVcJ7gjGkggu+d4YYsM/zSzuoeCPfzk/C7i/elukPN5x4BJ33oLCbP8WVc1MW4x1PMbz8ZZhEAOKGyR6G3gkHGfc=; 7:gh0c3I6qumCKo3XnkqFmy5yXm8bbvoTPTvqJJHy7840gV3+y2M6e2OYFDrgAh518oBXO0LhbFL9m8B9pN5HXyjthWXWXVKD1Muxucg6ntRMZ+JIanfQYreFoa5GdpOGVAtFgz+Bxj3wQgbyDe043PQUv7uTJaxJehr1poPC8jU7cdhNzkYipshwqkU8QaGAxak+rwQzOZL9/lcU86k7PbSn9mnjFvJNz8F2pPoVtIjmzcUnBVUGEJtD7qyK+jxwLMnGWaq3gjideO8L1ZyqRAD3lCqsB5Ddhvt3xaMKHI+VveG7D3ZdFTorNY8kb2zOl x-incomingheadercount: 42 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT013; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 85fb8b92-342d-4331-7af3-08d478f007b8 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322274)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT013; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT013; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT013; x-forefront-prvs: 0264FEA5C3 spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Apr 2017 11:12:48.2316 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR03HT013 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 11:12:53 -0000 > If I choose the v6 path due to 0x86DD then I find the source address addr= ess at byte 8 and the destination beginning at byte 24 there, there are of = course several ways to represent a an ipv4 mapped address within ipv6, none= of them are of any use to an native ipv4 speaker. That's why all Internet hosts must be IPv10 hosts. -----Original Message----- From: joel jaeggli [mailto:joelja@bogus.com]=20 Sent: Saturday, April 1, 2017 7:11 AM To: Khaled Omar; Tom Herbert Cc: int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. On 3/31/17 09:24, Khaled Omar wrote: >> "all OSs will be updated to support IPv10 which is an easy task"... >>> What makes you think it is ever an easy task to get all OSes to=20 >>> uniformly support anything? Please provide an implementation so we=20 >>> can evaluate the prospects. >=20 > For the 2nd time: >=20 > "I shouldn't list all devices that need to support IPv10, simply,=20 > anything will process a L3 packet, should understand that the IPv10=20 > packet can contain a mixture of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses." Assuming for the sake of argument that I am designing a forwarding asic. When I pass over the ethertype code in the frame, I decide what forwarding = lookup path I am going to exercise the ipv4 or ipv6 one. If i choose door n= umber 1 the ipv4 path due to 0x0800 and destination mac being me the byte= offset for the source is 12 and the destination is 4 bytes later at byte o= ffset 16. if these fields are of variable length then a 16 byte source addr= ess overflows the fixed offset where the destination is supposed and the = destination address is lost to me because it's where optional fields might = otherwise be. If I choose the v6 path due to 0x86DD then I find the source address addres= s at byte 8 and the destination beginning at byte 24 there, there are of co= urse several ways to represent a an ipv4 mapped address within ipv6, none o= f them are of any use to an native ipv4 speaker. The fields in the packet header are not self-described (they could be, pack= et header could be json for example but in the interest of performance the= y were / are not), therefore in the interestes of clarity a new ethertype = for ipv10 with either a fixed size source and destination address size or = a whay of specifying the offset, and a bit or multiple bit field for the AF= of both the source and destination would greatly facilitate the design of = a parser that would be able to handle the selection of AF for lookup. at th= e point you've go an entirely new header which is not compatible with eithe= r V4 or V6 parsers. in practical terms that means the useful deployment of = a v10 compatible parser at internet scale is approximately as hard as deplo= ying the the v6 compatible parser would be if we started now instead of in = 1995 when the internet was much smaller. joel >=20 > -----Original Message----- From: Tom Herbert=20 > [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 4:19 PM To: > Khaled Omar Cc: Bless, Roland (TM); int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: > [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. >=20 > On Fri, Mar 31, 2017 at 5:13 AM, Khaled Omar=20 > wrote: >>> As has been stated again and again. Your proposal would have been=20 >>> interesting if it was presented in 1995, or perhaps even in 2000. >>=20 >> FYI, IPv10 will allow IPv4 to communicate to IPv6 and vice versa, how=20 >> can it be interesting if it was presented before IPv6 was even=20 >> developed ! >>=20 >>> Most likely, even if Microsoft could be convinced that IPv10 is=20 >>> something they need to support, this would only happen in Windows=20 >>> 10. Then we have the rest of the ecosystem with access routers, load=20 >>> balancers, SAVI-functionality for BCP38 compliance in access=20 >>> devices, core routers etc. >>=20 >> Please, let's not be against ourselves, all OSs will be updated to=20 >> support IPv10 which is an easy task, OSs will not require support for=20 >> a new IP version like IPv6, they will just be enabled to support the=20 >> encapsulation of both version on the same L3 packet header. >=20 > "all OSs will be updated to support IPv10 which is an easy task"...=20 > What makes you think it is ever an easy task to get all OSes to=20 > uniformly support anything? Please provide an implementation so we can=20 > evaluate the prospects. >=20 > Tom >=20 >>=20 >> Also, networking devices will be upgraded to understand the new >> IPv10 packet, I said earlier I don't mind If the process will take=20 >> some time but we should eventually reach consensus, I shouldn't list=20 >> all devices that need to support IPv10, simply, anything will process=20 >> a L3 packet, should understand that the IPv10 packet can contain a=20 >> mixture of IPv4 and IPv6 addresses. >>=20 >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- From: Int-area=20 >> [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Bless, Roland (TM) >> Sent: Friday, March 31, 2017 9:51 AM To: Mikael Abrahamsson Cc: >> int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. >>=20 >> Hi Mikael, >>=20 >> thanks for clarifying again, everything +1! >>=20 >> Regards, Roland >>=20 >> Am 31.03.2017 um 08:17 schrieb Mikael Abrahamsson: >>> On Thu, 30 Mar 2017, Khaled Omar wrote: >>>=20 >>>> You can read the IPv10 I-D again and all your concerns will be =20 >>>> obvious, I don't mind if you have already a series of new questions=20 >>>> that will add a new value to the discussion but the time to deploy=20 >>>> IPv10 is an important factor. >>>>=20 >>>> We need consensus after understanding how IPv10 works and how it=20 >>>> will be deployed. >>>=20 >>> As has been stated again and again. Your proposal would have been =20 >>> interesting if it was presented in 1995, or perhaps even in 2000. >>>=20 >>> Let me give you an IPv6 deployment timeline: >>>=20 >>> Standards were worked out in the mid 90-ties, afterwards operating=20 >>> system vendors started working on it and "real" support started=20 >>> cropping up in the early to mid 2000:nds, with a large milestone=20 >>> being Windows Vista in 2006, where as far as I know this was the=20 >>> first widely used consumer operating system to implement this. It=20 >>> then took until Windows 7 timeframe around >>> 2010 before people started moving off of Windows XP in ernest, and=20 >>> we're still seeing Windows XP in non-trivial numbers. So now in 2017=20 >>> we're seeing most operating systems have comprehensive (albeit=20 >>> perhaps not as well-tested as we would like) support for IPv6,=20 >>> where the application ecosystem still has a way to go. >>> We're still working on better APIs to handle the dual-stackedness=20 >>> problem. >>>=20 >>> Most likely, even if Microsoft could be convinced that IPv10 is=20 >>> something they need to support, this would only happen in Windows=20 >>> 10. Then we have the rest of the ecosystem with access routers, load=20 >>> balancers, SAVI-functionality for BCP38 compliance in access=20 >>> devices, core routers etc. Most of these will require a hardware=20 >>> fork-lift in order to support your proposal, because they do not=20 >>> forward packets in a CPU, they forward it in purpose-designed=20 >>> hardware that is a lot less flexible in what they can do. >>>=20 >>> So even if we all united now (which won't happen) around your >>> IPv10 proposal, it would take 5-10 years before the first devices=20 >>> out on the market had support for it. Probably 5-10 years after that=20 >>> before support is widely available. >>>=20 >>> IPv10 would delay and confuse deployment of something that is not=20 >>> IPv4. While IPv6 is not perfect, there are now hundreds of millions=20 >>> of devices on the Internet with IPv6 access. It's proven to work,=20 >>> it's not perfect, but we have a decently good idea what to do to=20 >>> make it better. >>>=20 >>> IPv10 is only injecting FUD into where we need to go debate, which=20 >>> is IPv6 deployment for all. >>>=20 >>> Please stop. >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list=20 >> Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list=20 >> Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list=20 > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 From nobody Sat Apr 1 11:22:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8E2C12964F for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:22:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id skSaw86JtVzx for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x242.google.com (mail-wr0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0DBC912964B for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 11:22:03 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x242.google.com with SMTP id p52so24619969wrc.2 for ; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 11:22:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fu+3RnTEIoP9aUSBNQyAj25OGy5c7i7p8Gf/BpZ8H9s=; b=fHWm7Ii1Tm4jk42VYgjUDXzZ85PXJhYl6FwAErDl8jq8DTpoxI/LGBVcmJYM/fHdZN Juk17YnlqA0dRFriEFig2//yebpIGrIa+TGZFk2iWtBWy9ZabXdJLgWXw/Nm3fcSdj8L xsKWcMbGBQNG+hTjBXG/BIKu6ZtsxUiRz5rCG3dLZjUeuvtkhAxM5wFaHMcIVXqNjmOt k5IJoraxCdh1axfMpTSKknMP6pVIOxJQR4TdT/Tl1qu3IitdV0CPXMq2sTTSnLcrgesg LftjVgqgCT8CtsFI9n6fHlaKsww+bUbd4Dh7EqYd/SIoIaxagqDTNcDehRt7ESNhE22Z WvEw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=fu+3RnTEIoP9aUSBNQyAj25OGy5c7i7p8Gf/BpZ8H9s=; b=Yvof2xuOChxjQ1ejiT2wcr1BwF9Cwgas0nZT6LjCp9i5Nn7cLMmsu+R80ElT1Svu4Z PjLR4XxTQ1nvuLgEt7kermW2JHvygXgNNoDByqQaMZNGikSBa8Cbh7/038PnAlJp/pcT 5AcGZcDnVLH+jRR/zPNyZD1PTbS5YlJ7yY4Gmd598P23wrzN3agKXOjE4h9E11uaURmE JCLsERXBHVJ6OlrM2ACphj+mp1mgRH999nDSkio7UMhMAbbvTu2G/QjSsuVMudLl3nBM FjduNULsjn2FtdDdNcGQ4qIEbWDWNJIyL3LYIzJv9rS8dLZSK4FvvVgezaM5+IMcAzYk jxEQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H3mNEwUK3/CkDcsUzE/w0rgeS/v+hAkvb8s/MCVZ9+8UI2ejJ+ZQ5uEFlSSYgaQyA== X-Received: by 10.223.136.246 with SMTP id g51mr7909885wrg.83.1491070921611; Sat, 01 Apr 2017 11:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.170.12.73] (82-132-241-90.dab.02.net. [82.132.241.90]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b13sm7586075wmf.6.2017.04.01.11.22.00 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Sat, 01 Apr 2017 11:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Stewart Bryant X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14D27) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 13:21:54 -0500 Cc: joel jaeggli , "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1d67d033-8a0f-c7eb-ae37-ec99f5a34660@kit.edu> <5fbcf078-4e05-3ea8-01a8-e0228659eb86@bogus.com> To: Khaled Omar Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Fw: Continuing IPv10 I-D discussion. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 18:22:05 -0000 On 1 Apr 2017, at 6:12 am, Khaled Omar wrote: >>=20 >=20 > That's why all Internet hosts must be IPv10 hosts. If all hosts can be made IPv10, they can all be made IPv6. Thereby reducing t= his to a previously solved problem. ... or should I have looked more closely at the posting date? 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Sat, 01 Apr 2017 19:19:39 -0400 Received: (qmail 26428 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2017 23:19:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO [192.168.1.100]) (Authenticated-user:_huitema@huitema.net@[172.56.42.160]) (envelope-sender ) by xmail02.myhosting.com (qmail-ldap-1.03) with ESMTPA for ; 1 Apr 2017 23:19:37 -0000 To: "int-area@ietf.org" From: Christian Huitema Message-ID: <68d4f945-8ece-45b0-ed4b-51847720740f@huitema.net> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2017 16:19:35 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Originating-IP: 168.144.250.177 X-SpamExperts-Domain: xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-SpamExperts-Username: 168.144.250.0/24 Authentication-Results: antispamcloud.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=168.144.250.0/24@xsmtpout.mail2web.com X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Class: unsure X-SpamExperts-Outgoing-Evidence: Combined (0.35) X-Recommended-Action: accept X-Filter-ID: s0sct1PQhAABKnZB5plbIVbU93hg6Kq00BjAzYBqWlVTHAar8Je/lORhy3PZJU8LERWeKKG4PAQY Nyavp7c49L/N1imVzxQGuMdyq1ILpVFTugiLDom8V25hond3K4RsO76XSTAwtV4mg4i2ouCDa4AU hvIWAV5xUW/+gAh4vXrqQH3GdejsBzdIhzsyD8+3RcOb18WfxGyg6Om6u4YYmySxOhwEqHBVZiN+ 25LatPQ5hjoyEb9Oq0NWpyO3vrfYNrJwCbVSZviV1vzVlxiUlT3dKxLhoxcmaInYbR5vlqGudzLe k2TYFBStSOMccbr5Uz0sPgnpAk2KA2vJwMd1uWhCmLzOxTAcQmFWVARhgNqBNFD3an3wiMp49rVr ybSBe34TY+s3lj/RgDQoaICKQ3TFgIfDMShmlQFqCr5hA8xAXSGwpLGc/Znuh3MoIpK0R/z5ctp0 Xk6w2p7umgr8+bbRF0J+AL6gRRwFcty0/RGJ+cv73CChOPjKA0/DVd83mzKXD5o/Ia+BqyQ7Q0nt IZ2PVtMHd8bHCmdzlxzVIEgwyGTHIAoNFX+jcW7DGmdE6eBVl9/A6GtGi+mfMSANmjLzCyMdOETT xDqixVDal2Zqxiuap5uKiBpffUsHYsfmrbtbs8GJuRKR6hnrta1usy6F/SOWlhnS7qkS/mOkSgAg eNjxIyqtWcsHzPElnaBFglzR8EKamCCPLRQqfIrw/gkjqdXk6qmyDQ4w/U/UBMWgxFIzsjPI5quM 23m6o9WaGyoCJJa3e874rwXXGPuEmSKg33smtlc64dR/aNUnR+kcQlvCYTspYJdGl64rm9ixxYJS vH1uwzGpXypuXzvU+UENvSgP50fgFRnQVhHNu8xf/tvEsq8ECzFNZ6L8s8pn X-Report-Abuse-To: spam@quarantine5.antispamcloud.com Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2017 23:19:52 -0000 Since there has been lots of exchanges on the list, I decided to actually write a review of draft-omar-ipv10-01. This "IPv10" proposal can be summarized as a version of IPv6 in which the source and destination addresses will be either native IPv6 addresses, or IPv6 addresses with embedded IPv4 addresses. The author makes many claims of interoperability and deployment properties, but does not present any interoperabilty mechanism between "IPv10" and legacy IPv4 nodes.. As such, I find the draft both unnecessary, since it mainly restates an existing option of the IPv6 protocol, and unconvincing, since it basically relies on a magical update of all existing nodes. I don't see value in pursuing discussion of this draft in the IETF. The short draft starts with a description of Internet evolution as perceived by the author, Omar Khaled, which he uses to motivate the introduction of a new Internet Protocol, which he calls "IPv10". Section 2 makes a number of assertions about the supposed qualities of IPv10. Section 3 presents the supposed advantages of the proposal, and section 10 presents the proposed "IPv10" format. This short section, exactly one page long, constitutes the technical part of the document, and this is where I will start my review. The IPv10 headers can carry source and destination addresses that will be either IPv6 or IPv4 addresses. Specifically, the addresses can be either 128 bit IPv6 addresses, or IPv4 addresses encoded as 96 zero bits. The header format is identical to the IPv6 header format, with the exception of the version field with encode whether the addresses are IPv4 (v =3D 4), IPv6 ( v =3D 6), or a mix of IPv4 and IPv6 (v =3D 10). The obvious observation is that the encoding of IPv4 addresses proposed in the draft is exactly the "IPv6 Addresses with Embedded IPv4 Addresses" format specified in section 2.4.4 of RFC 1884, the original "IP Version 6 Addressing Architecture" authored by Bob Hinden and Steve Deering in December 1995. The IPv10 format expressed in the draft is thus equivalent to the IPv6 format proposed in December 1995 in RFC 1883, with an emphasis on the "embedded IPv4 Addresses" defined in RFC 1884. The change in protocol type proposed by the author is actually not necessary, since the presence of IPv4 addresses is indicated by the 96 bit zero prefix of the address format. In fact, the use of the protocol type 4 for indicating the presence of 2 IPv4 addresses is probably dangerous, since this version is reserved for IPv4, which uses a different header format. After analyzing the proposed header format, I went back to review the section 1, in which the author presents his motivations. This section is riddled with some errors. For example, it states that IPv6 was defined in 1998, while the drafts were produced as early as 1993, leading to RFC 1883 in 1995. More importantly, it dismisses NAT64, stating that "NAT64 requires so much protocol translations and statically configured bindings, and also getting a DNS64 involved in the communication process." The author is entitled to his opinions, but NAT64 is in fact widely deployed. Also, there is no proposal in the short draft of any mechanism letting IPv10 hosts communicate with unmodified IPv4 hosts. Dismissing a deployed mechanism without proposing an alternative is poor engineering practice. This glaring omission of any interoperability mechanism with existing hosts makes the properties and advantages claims in section 2 and 3 unsubstantiated. For example, the author claims that "IPv10 allows hosts from two IP versions (IPv4 and IPv6) to be able to communicate," but in practice that would only happen if the hosts all changed their software. The difficulty comes precisely from the existing deployed IPv4 systems, many of which will not be able to change their software, and in some cases their hardware. If they could be updated to a new protocol, they could just as well switch to IPv6. My advice to the author is that he studies the deployment constraints that drove the evolution towards the current NAT64 mechanisms. The IPv10 draft is best abandoned, but there may very well be a better way to perform the NAT64 functions. Work on that would be welcome! -- Christian Huitema From nobody Sat Apr 1 17:19:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8155C12785F for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 17:19:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P5i-Kkw256Lq for ; 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Sun, 2 Apr 2017 00:19:31 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.10.56) by HE1EUR02FT021.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.10.85) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1005.5 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 00:19:30 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1005.016; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 00:19:30 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Christian Huitema CC: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 Thread-Index: AQHSqz58sctllBpSK0+MvF+P5B9/NKGxL+Yg Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 00:19:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <68d4f945-8ece-45b0-ed4b-51847720740f@huitema.net> In-Reply-To: <68d4f945-8ece-45b0-ed4b-51847720740f@huitema.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: huitema.net; 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SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1EUR02HT064; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d0b599a4-fd37-4fe0-7c91-08d4795dee6e x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322274)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:HE1EUR02HT064; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:HE1EUR02HT064; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:HE1EUR02HT064; x-forefront-prvs: 02652BD10A spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Apr 2017 00:19:30.4679 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR02HT064 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 00:19:39 -0000 This review is unofficial but thanks for the initiative. Let me clarify many things: > This "IPv10" proposal can be summarized as a version of IPv6 in which th= e source and destination addresses will be either native IPv6 addresses, or= IPv6 addresses with embedded IPv4 addresses. This "IPv10" proposal can be summarized as a version of IPv6 in which the = source and destination addresses will be either native IPv6 addresses, or "= native IPv4 addresses" but the 96 zero bits are to make the packet size fix= ed, and the requested updates should makes devices extract the native IPv4 = address when the 1st 96-bits are zeros, because for IPv6 there is no IPv6 a= ddress starts with zeros and ends with IID, but full zeros is ok and this i= s not our case, devices will be intelligent to differentiate and extract th= e pure IPv4 address.=20 > The author makes many claims of interoperability and deployment propertie= s, but does not present any interoperabilty mechanism between "IPv10" and l= egacy IPv4 nodes. True, but you have to understand that there is no communication between IPv= 10 and IPv4 or IPv10 and IPv6, the communication is between IPv6 and IPv4, = all should be IPv10 hosts. > As such, I find the draft both unnecessary, since it mainly restates an e= xisting option of the IPv6 protocol, and unconvincing, since it basically r= elies on a magical update of all existing nodes. What about the IPv6 migration? ... it requested the whole world to change t= heir existing network to another version, with a new address structure, wha= t this hard work will bring for those poor people after this migration? ...= any solution will request modification, and the more applicable modificati= on makes a better solution, updating all existing nodes is not a hard reque= st, at least, the poor people will not get involved in solving a problem th= at they never did. I will not give more replies to your review because they have been repeated= many times earlier, but thanks for your time. Before I forget, in 1995 I was 9-years old, so I didn't realize what the IE= TF was doing, but from reading their produced standards, the IPv6 RFC 2460 = states the date when IPv6 became a standard, I can't guess when actually th= at proposal was issued. -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christian Hu= itema Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 1:20 AM To: int-area@ietf.org Subject: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 Since there has been lots of exchanges on the list, I decided to actually w= rite a review of draft-omar-ipv10-01. This "IPv10" proposal can be summarized as a version of IPv6 in which the = source and destination addresses will be either native IPv6 addresses, or I= Pv6 addresses with embedded IPv4 addresses. The author makes many claims of= interoperability and deployment properties, but does not present any inter= operabilty mechanism between "IPv10" and legacy IPv4 nodes.. As such, I fin= d the draft both unnecessary, since it mainly restates an existing option o= f the IPv6 protocol, and unconvincing, since it basically relies on a magic= al update of all existing nodes. I don't see value in pursuing discussion o= f this draft in the IETF. The short draft starts with a description of Internet evolution as perceive= d by the author, Omar Khaled, which he uses to motivate the introduction of= a new Internet Protocol, which he calls "IPv10". Section 2 makes a number of assertions about the supposed qualities of IPv10. Section 3 presents the supposed advantages of the proposal, and section 10 presents the proposed "IPv10" format. This short section, exactly one pa= ge long, constitutes the technical part of the document, and this is where = I will start my review. The IPv10 headers can carry source and destination addresses that will be = either IPv6 or IPv4 addresses. Specifically, the addresses can be either 12= 8 bit IPv6 addresses, or IPv4 addresses encoded as 96 zero bits. The header= format is identical to the IPv6 header format, with the exception of the v= ersion field with encode whether the addresses are IPv4 (v =3D 4), IPv6 ( v =3D 6), or a mix of IPv4 and IPv6 (v =3D 10). The obvious observation is that the encoding of IPv4 addresses proposed in = the draft is exactly the "IPv6 Addresses with Embedded IPv4 Addresses" form= at specified in section 2.4.4 of RFC 1884, the original "IP Version 6 Addre= ssing Architecture" authored by Bob Hinden and Steve Deering in December 19= 95. The IPv10 format expressed in the draft is thus equivalent to the IPv6 = format proposed in December 1995 in RFC 1883, with an emphasis on the "embe= dded IPv4 Addresses" defined in RFC 1884. The change in protocol type proposed by the author is actually not necessar= y, since the presence of IPv4 addresses is indicated by the 96 bit zero pre= fix of the address format. In fact, the use of the protocol type 4 for indi= cating the presence of 2 IPv4 addresses is probably dangerous, since this v= ersion is reserved for IPv4, which uses a different header format. After analyzing the proposed header format, I went back to review the secti= on 1, in which the author presents his motivations. This section is riddled= with some errors. For example, it states that IPv6 was defined in 1998, wh= ile the drafts were produced as early as 1993, leading to RFC 1883 in 1995. More importantly, it dismisses NAT64, stating that "NAT64 req= uires so much protocol translations and statically configured bindings, and= also getting a DNS64 involved in the communication process." The author is= entitled to his opinions, but NAT64 is in fact widely deployed. Also, ther= e is no proposal in the short draft of any mechanism letting IPv10 hosts co= mmunicate with unmodified IPv4 hosts. Dismissing a deployed mechanism without proposing an alternative is poor en= gineering practice. This glaring omission of any interoperability mechanism with existing hosts= makes the properties and advantages claims in section 2 and 3 unsubstantia= ted. For example, the author claims that "IPv10 allows hosts from two IP ve= rsions (IPv4 and IPv6) to be able to communicate," but in practice that wo= uld only happen if the hosts all changed their software. The difficulty comes precisely from the existing deployed IPv4 systems, man= y of which will not be able to change their software, and in some cases the= ir hardware. If they could be updated to a new protocol, they could just as= well switch to IPv6. My advice to the author is that he studies the deployment constraints that = drove the evolution towards the current NAT64 mechanisms. The IPv10 draft is best abandoned, but there may very well be a better way to p= erform the NAT64 functions. Work on that would be welcome! -- Christian Huitema _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Sat Apr 1 23:10:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3391126D05 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 23:10:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sWyAEh_2bF4D for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 23:10:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 134FC127097 for ; Sat, 1 Apr 2017 23:10:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 8EACDA2; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 08:10:20 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1491113420; bh=wi38ZnaXweugj02nFQReiENwX6OpbMwxGz7+XdPKoHg=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=XRPq16N897/p6h2zP2L4QQvajbjaCcdjDqXmJ1pfAOq5jPDY4M3jWL2dxjajyvH+r dZIz3YrXRw9KxaNO51NC3HzgwcawFGgSSUK1krwb+tKEWeaDD9aLtYRS902Nk380CI FwlnMVxCByBBMqBARebkatKBEm0QNHd2Q/5J3xUU= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C29088; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 08:10:20 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 08:10:20 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Khaled Omar cc: "int-area@ietf.org" In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <68d4f945-8ece-45b0-ed4b-51847720740f@huitema.net> User-Agent: Alpine 2.02 (DEB 1266 2009-07-14) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 06:10:27 -0000 On Sun, 2 Apr 2017, Khaled Omar wrote: > What about the IPv6 migration? ... it requested the whole world to > change their existing network to another version, with a new address > structure, what this hard work will bring for those poor people after > this migration? ... any solution will request modification, and the more > applicable modification makes a better solution, updating all existing > nodes is not a hard request, at least, the poor people will not get > involved in solving a problem that they never did. Khaled, I admire your energy. I just wish you would direct it in a more productive direction. Implementing a new on-wire format is a 10-20 year process in todays Internet with many many billions of hosts and network devices. Christian made some interesting observations, and I think you should read his email again. The interesting point he made was that your proposal basically uses the IPv6 on-wire format. This means that if re-think your solution to instead work within the IPv6 packet format (because it's by now a lot easier to IPv6 enable the rest of the hosts on the Internet, than it is to IPv10-enable all the hosts). The biggest problem is that we have IPv4-only hosts on IPv4-only Internet access. This is the real problem. If they can be upgraded to IPv10, they can be upgraded to IPv6, solving the problem with a solution that is 20 years old, instead of one that is currently on the drawing board (IPv10). But now, if they can't and they need to interoperate, then we need to use IPv4<->IPv6 translation mechanism. There are numerous of these in the IETF. If you have an idea how to do that which is better than what has already been proposed, then I (and most likely others) are very interested in hearing about it. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Sun Apr 2 06:24:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E59AE12704B for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 06:24:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.553 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.553 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RCVD_IN_PSBL=2.7, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WXJKtsYDAerf for ; 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Sun, 2 Apr 2017 13:24:29 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.4.60) by DB5EUR01FT060.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.5.232) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1005.5 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 13:24:29 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1005.016; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 13:24:29 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Christian Huitema CC: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 Thread-Index: AQHSqz58sctllBpSK0+MvF+P5B9/NKGxL+YggAAUBoCAAM1FUA== Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 13:24:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <68d4f945-8ece-45b0-ed4b-51847720740f@huitema.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: huitema.net; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;huitema.net; 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SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:DB5EUR01HT186; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 95b99812-85a4-4423-1a89-08d479cb9783 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322274)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:DB5EUR01HT186; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:DB5EUR01HT186; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:DB5EUR01HT186; x-forefront-prvs: 02652BD10A spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Apr 2017 13:24:29.1674 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB5EUR01HT186 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 13:24:34 -0000 > I understand that is what you are saying, but you are failing to listen t= o what others are telling you. If we could magically upgrade software and h= ardware on all legacy IPv4 nodes, we would have converted all of them to IP= v6 long ago. If there is a better solution introduced, I would follow it with pleasure. > I am concerned by the way this discussion is going. Specifically, I am co= ncerned that you will end up embittered by the rejection of your proposal. = I have seen that happen before. A young researcher presents what he believe= s is a brilliant idea, reviewers point out major flaws, and after the rejec= tion the young researchers either marginalizes himself, or abandons the fie= ld of networking. I would much rather help you work on your next proposal! Rejecting my proposal is not my decision, I'm waiting for the official deci= sion and will accept it regardless what it is, then I will make my decision= regarding sharing my ideas with the IETF or not. -----Original Message----- From: Christian Huitema [mailto:huitema@huitema.net]=20 Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 3:05 AM To: Khaled Omar Subject: Re: [Int-area] Review of draft-omar-ipv10-01 On 4/1/2017 5:19 PM, Khaled Omar wrote: > True, but you have to understand that there is no communication between I= Pv10 and IPv4 or IPv10 and IPv6, the communication is between IPv6 and IPv4= , all should be IPv10 hosts. I understand that is what you are saying, but you are failing to listen to = what others are telling you. If we could magically upgrade software and har= dware on all legacy IPv4 nodes, we would have converted all of them to IPv6= long ago. I am concerned by the way this discussion is going. Specifically, I am conc= erned that you will end up embittered by the rejection of your proposal. I = have seen that happen before. A young researcher presents what he believes = is a brilliant idea, reviewers point out major flaws, and after the rejecti= on the young researchers either marginalizes himself, or abandons the field= of networking. I would much rather help you work on your next proposal! -- Christian Huitema From nobody Sun Apr 2 07:04:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C362129435 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 07:04:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zonq9354gvCZ for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 07:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092070102.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.70.102]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 97F5E129439 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 07:04:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=VHv2B1sa98CYf+4gPTkkZEFw6ZvX0ORpmkZogDQJIXg=; b=AhYWOwx6L40Xn5yKQOgb78RPJuH0YJBWJr0DqZvCAWxui3ZYplIfih/pK13P5foqbX7rJA0FzD5k3Ol3QMt+6fEiF3sAtBYXRU7WUM10fSgrt7R3OFNY35Li5yEMeI67nsCqXv1KJKYAWfDnZzNjRqbBPHG2Xbe3zxIiltxK4J6bmJt7lHLDx3Kso028ejzRZsCt5Fpz66zCqqx0lsLW7+uAxIR9S1naCoQ4uWkEgvWVCFriC6YfvasR9dVh9ivN3KqCD3971h7HO5UBh2s4shS8uNADYK7L39CKcmVRQ28zAeANbt+mRU1rgamvAsPjyNtCAK8zwwJGMew6d2AIzA== Received: from AM5EUR03FT049.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.16.56) by AM5EUR03HT154.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.17.91) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.977.7; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 14:04:38 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.16.57) by AM5EUR03FT049.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.17.130) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1005.5 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 14:04:39 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1005.016; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 14:04:38 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Stopping IPv10 Discussion. Thread-Index: AdKruJEx1nCTqdAcQJaAhbkcIQzytg== Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 14:04:38 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:96E4BCB24E7D0F0EA9193FD16CDED15503E0E3D4D6A22E78A7E2388237A50937; UpperCasedChecksum:803BFEA6C71671CC37B19DE7884FCCB21629F197B2023D12BB4FEF31C954C9EA; SizeAsReceived:8065; Count:40 x-tmn: [Ncr5u6C5qXLobM2UN1zSD5Xd7sqaJR+l] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR03HT154; 5:hDLn64Gur7CThOyBbMth9ayWIq4s2Bm7GeDnM73oXXe+JKpuNmahWncvRUHO44F4PYItlN9kQAPzU7+qQcw3pXsq1AxwLEC1CC7L34Syi4Xo23nSGjz99UCzTJPShl0jFKdPGeYIf1ct0hPnjbc8ZQ==; 24:cMCVhCk2k4XDuqDbgEGTZIuuL4A9Hl3i/OQkAzrljn3XTRpi+WWz7Rlzdaj0/DQeLelpAzSUt9hfynp9YP9YmsxPw+alMIMYddldxWTadwA=; 7:bEiojVhrQGdzt4akgPJLmrOGir2NuIVLM2VwpzkEmTRQAs9aL4KlK3uvyaWlWPuyMtJMWm3U1o74zAWHd8nGP3doDSNG3AOo6VXOWWFvkFP7Vbw/UkOmZ05uyXocbN/fWJ+OiZP7Vd4FM3rIc5nMGYfYzxQuImKe+oQnC6zrFf4BXCaGBwulA9QdVMR2r7artPy2QSyb19pihe5lVQ6DptLwELw8Ao8NTpr2nYiP7WD/Aw1JiAdK6qGJv6wl/7UhcHEf/lgUojfyq8aV23LMHpc4yugIJPlTbeoV6No8FK6sKRAq4jy5d90Qq/dHKBNl x-incomingheadercount: 40 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT154; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 5a581071-ce53-4a0a-89ed-08d479d1339f x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322274)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT154; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT154; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT154; x-forefront-prvs: 02652BD10A spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB2241638AD75FD74ED2CBFB20BD090AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Apr 2017 14:04:38.6281 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR03HT154 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Stopping IPv10 Discussion. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 14:04:44 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241638AD75FD74ED2CBFB20BD090AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, Thanks for your constructive and destructive opinions, of course it is not = a waste of time, but what is not interesting is that some people participat= es on the discussion and they even not interested on it, so why you partici= pate if you think it is a bad, not applicable, waste of time, etc. What is funny is that some people think there is no problem at all and he s= till think after more than 17 years that IPv6 will dominate on the internet= traffic soon and new clients will not have a problem accessing all resourc= es on the internet, so how can I keep discussing with these views that is b= ased on wrong facts! I cannot keep convincing people who insists that what = shines in the morning is the moon not the sun. So please let's stop the IPv10 menial discussion that makes no progress, or= even no suggestions offered or a respectful replacement solution for that = problem and waits for the Chairs decision because I'm busy now with KHALED = Routing Protocol (KRP) and want to finish it soon as I'm not expecting part= icipants from the IETF and this new EGP is almost done with 90% of its comp= letion. Thanks all, --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241638AD75FD74ED2CBFB20BD090AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear all,

 

Thanks for your constructive and destructive opinion= s, of course it is not a waste of time, but what is not interesting is that= some people participates on the discussion and they even not interested on= it, so why you participate if you think it is a bad, not applicable, waste of time, etc.

 

What is funny is that some people think there is no = problem at all and he still think after more than 17 years that IPv6 will d= ominate on the internet traffic soon and new clients will not have a proble= m accessing all resources on the internet, so how can I keep discussing with these views that is based on wrong facts= ! I cannot keep convincing people who insists that what shines in the morni= ng is the moon not the sun.

 

So please let’s stop the IPv10 menial discussi= on that makes no progress, or even no suggestions offered or a respectful r= eplacement solution for that problem and waits for the Chairs decision beca= use I’m busy now with KHALED Routing Protocol (KRP) and want to finish it soon as I’m not expecting participants f= rom the IETF and this new EGP is almost done with 90% of its completion.

 

Thanks all,

 

--_000_AM4PR0401MB2241638AD75FD74ED2CBFB20BD090AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Sun Apr 2 09:47:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A501129471 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 09:47:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.147 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.147 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rLUIKYOZ9Q-9 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 09:47:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092071031.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.71.31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8460E127A90 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 09:47:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=KuH49FR7qjjzzxVoEAz7HNPWWhm+8PKj5aWJMDZ6LXg=; b=u+vSdXGeF+uSF9MFceKIUcR/bh6B1i8kjTJGek9ivvfps5BnKvLdzWYEioUoEpyApX0E94bikYHY3J+ZFugg+4huQJIljTG7u/N/rq88nYcrmyt05NngRR3OJA8QY7mo83MjBV+Wc9G0ao4QWVrXkqx+nj8GOySD/HMc3L9s4kgg0cN5solzxIaaYfIZ6De49bq4rSDhv38uqhCJn35IbSSp8DU+pVU8A2Bw7UII/PtaGBkHYofQ/NOBC+EE0jINkATeVwe09H6VhAQYHNmbCAhczfVJFXSFTfenCo8DCGO5nSByia3qCCWSBrsTpthVwxUroNo0OtYas/ChXj/KnA== Received: from VE1EUR03FT004.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.18.56) by VE1EUR03HT179.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.19.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1005.5; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 16:46:58 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.18.56) by VE1EUR03FT004.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.18.106) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1005.5 via Frontend Transport; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 16:46:58 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1005.016; Sun, 2 Apr 2017 16:46:58 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Ted Lemon CC: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Stopping IPv10 Discussion. Thread-Index: AdKruJEx1nCTqdAcQJaAhbkcIQzytgAB6ncAAAQVL5A= Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2017 16:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <927A2BDB-D31B-47A1-80A3-0808BA8414D6@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: <927A2BDB-D31B-47A1-80A3-0808BA8414D6@fugue.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: fugue.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;fugue.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:C0976AB55C56B7744859E6CCCFB14A7F99AE459DF9BE6D917D8F7865FCB75B87; UpperCasedChecksum:A9D56CEB5C217C99A23D746AB7DE652F87F368762161C9A07406CFDB371970B1; SizeAsReceived:8200; Count:42 x-tmn: [yTsjjhbDr0pCw5Ek3ziVy84pm8utOUx2] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VE1EUR03HT179; 5:Hx/8gC2UEvf2C2JhErfmCNyrlXlA3x/de2t0xfql/DkFbbj6zBbe19G0PiLxUtEj/WROW4K6+L3i/eaFDQI67r0k+OTe4qDfwrQqc3oohJ0DVUcyRTXc1XY8mHHh2Ex85ADK7uZ2JqQdgYpl33356A==; 24:lwSUA4U6ES7dFbJPJqyY0cocveIb+uRx5agIHUDDEuohXkGnHNq8yVQI507nxvmeJK8P9ZF/vtXlWfq5U4XKnPgjv3zWyK+oqdzhWkcQNIs=; 7:wmDVB3bJxSvwz41gfrFWnSWDVVhRHVFZ6qefQyRFjLhG9ENxp5zbiJqJUah8pZlAyhxaL+WNwuNe+dc40rjaqLHUoQip+sZsNA4MaDM6yBJRM432SPbtK9o+Be7F864tzLbzPqsvxjogVE8N0BSBwn+/RRPE7vopIYM8I5kI4XtCWbHh0kBCkzKY4GElPmR31iG0y2jEMwLU4o5WTN4o0tQ37RPFMbW8X30dCPnLjqCuQKe12gTtoAPGDNR3k6FTZBptIwVd7czEbHgSan5aBBUaFjVgqoOAxxjXYtzZeBocWjfEvfvR3hzzIEAEl+Nn x-incomingheadercount: 42 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:VE1EUR03HT179; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b13415b7-88c9-43eb-9371-08d479e7e0e9 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322274)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:VE1EUR03HT179; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:VE1EUR03HT179; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:VE1EUR03HT179; x-forefront-prvs: 02652BD10A spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Apr 2017 16:46:58.1780 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VE1EUR03HT179 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Stopping IPv10 Discussion. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2017 16:47:03 -0000 Yes, forget about my proposals, I don't need them to be discussed by the ie= tf, chairs, or any group. -----Original Message----- From: Ted Lemon [mailto:mellon@fugue.com]=20 Sent: Sunday, April 2, 2017 4:49 PM To: Khaled Omar Subject: Re: [Int-area] Stopping IPv10 Discussion. If you are interested in doing real work with the IETF, you should pay a li= ttle bit of respect to our culture. The IETF culture is an egalitarian cu= lture. Our motto is "We do not believe in kings or presidents. We believe= in rough consensus and running code." The idea of naming a protocol "Khaled's Protocol" is simply not something t= hat could ever happen within the IETF. If you want to invent "Khaled's Pr= otocol," the IETF is not the place to invent it. Protocols developed (not= invented!) in the IETF are developed _by the IETF_, not by Khaled or by Te= d. When you talk about waiting for the working group chairs to make a decision= , you are misunderstanding the process. Working group chairs do not make = decisions. Working group chairs try to figure out what the decision is th= at has been made by the group. So if everybody but one person in the grou= p says "this is a bad idea," then the working group chairs have no choice i= n the matter: they have to say no. The IETF as a whole has actually paid you a great deal of respect, although= I'm sure it does not feel that way. Christian read your draft carefully.= That is unusual: normally nobody reads an individual submission unless t= here is some belief within the working group that it is a good idea. He d= id it because you've been so disrespectful of the IETF process. Ironicall= y, this is another part of the IETF culture: sometimes being disrespectful,= as you have been, is the right thing to do: it gets people to consider you= r ideas when being respectful isn't working. But the limit of this approach is that your idea has to be convincing. Wh= en people take a close look at it, it has to stand up to inspection, and it= has to be something that others become enthusiastic about supporting. Th= at has not happened here. Several senior IETF participants have given you= their time and their respect, but the outcome has been that your ideas wer= e not convincing to them. You can take this in one of three ways. First, you can simply decide that= we are bad people who are being unfair to you. It would be a shame if yo= u did that, because that would prevent you from participating in the IETF. = Second, you can give up on the IETF. I think that would be a shame too.= =20 Your third option is to learn to approach the IETF with humility. Do not = assume that you are smarter than the people you are talking to. Do not as= sume that your idea is better. Do not assume that we are not in favor of = your idea because we are bad people, or because we do not like you. Inste= ad, listen to the criticism and learn from it. Change your ideas in respo= nse to the criticism. If you think the criticism is wrong, be ready to ex= plain why it is wrong, and have data to back up what you are saying. The IETF tries very hard to be inclusive, and we are enthusiastic about hel= ping new participants to learn how to join in our activities. If you are = willing to meet us halfway, it can be a very good relationship. But you c= an never be a prince here. The best you can hope for is to be one of us. 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"int-area@ietf.org" , Wassim Haddad , "Dorothy Stanley (DStanley@arubanetworks.com)" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: IP over Intentionally Partitioned Links Thread-Index: AQHScpxO+lEWKzah3E+5mqsDI9bBLaFKUEuAgAEwkQCAEd1yAIABTo8AgCMAPNCAK34SgIAHKYgA Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 17:34:22 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Mon, 3 Apr 2017 17:33:34 +0000 Message-ID: <2545a911bed74cdb8a655cda48d144e9@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> References: <923f7967-0e76-fa13-9cd3-fc5e153df784@acm.org> <425de076ca264ac0bca2fc56aa4b60c6@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.61.254.62] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: IP over Intentionally Partitioned Links X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF 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Thread-Index: AdKuHRR28RpzEBpmQHKKk6YUcTcEtQ== Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2017 15:02:30 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:322A4BF2347F7D484BABA327241E9313D5C3DFC52493C18A4BE786D1EE48929C; UpperCasedChecksum:EFC7BE414469BFD12EBEFC26A6DE691ACE673CF2262FE00F61E6AF559894D682; SizeAsReceived:8032; Count:40 x-tmn: [93x4Cd0dwqZweXkuzguODEVcGUDmCHLa] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR03HT067; 5:8k5XPmHgyBH2h3T+yGpLhWWGy1jHBJI5S1Zz19AzgCX61xA7mwOtU+NOCYkHiilCO03y42QEyCAk1wRO3LeJYRnToZuHnOiVfB3ezCVlR5ttLjFm4lnkeJo8GaTebHaqQz8RGeV38PVO5i3lR3gDsA==; 24:dDWCad2DvIu2jfKTSpfnkO/VEubV1+H28EL7YpHh4JJlxPes7hR3VwxbYwQdUaRuPcoM05Yy7RS8oU4il68CLDwaKOU9/Gjp3yyjRKe9aWg=; 7:L4x5tRlegWeTuG+NJcu2afC5IPPSdyFkrmvVNOFBhG6kjIMFAQvr+QbSekDbRC0n7A5ufwOm4ML81E3Fe/HFa40fmtxbyWSHEjMGtmSxFLeDDz/REDnSVPWB8H86VCrRfdzkLxtHWiqZ69N0zc75iPiRLRnHmNdVC3XtcSUQo78VxpJrQk8Yj/Z7Az5gUki0G1qLynJ7f1WmrDks0lYFuZQnwL4p8SjSb/wAzHup2EgdhtuhnzrdfRA4Vx5E59OY09+aikvGtABwPC7p5gtO8erTyza351pHaP9FPRuqPLltelmXWHq6s0aawfP7JwKi x-incomingheadercount: 40 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT067; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: aa011520-9312-4ab6-bde3-08d47c34c848 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031322274)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT067; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT067; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT067; x-forefront-prvs: 0268246AE7 spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB22415F075901158AFF1EEA2ABD0A0AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 05 Apr 2017 15:02:30.5355 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR03HT067 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Decisions regarding IPv10 I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 15:02:35 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB22415F075901158AFF1EEA2ABD0A0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi ALL, Is there any official decision will be taken regarding the IPv10 I-D whethe= r assigning to a reviewer, changing the status, or publishing the Standard. Of course all of you know that the added value by this I-D will affect all = of us in a positive way so we shouldn't wait more than that. Best Regards, Khaled Omar --_000_AM4PR0401MB22415F075901158AFF1EEA2ABD0A0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi ALL,

 

Is there any official decision will be taken regardi= ng the IPv10 I-D whether assigning to a reviewer, changing the status, or p= ublishing the Standard.

 

Of course all of you know that the added value by th= is I-D will affect all of us in a positive way so we shouldn’t wait m= ore than that.

 

Best Regards,

 

Khaled Omar

--_000_AM4PR0401MB22415F075901158AFF1EEA2ABD0A0AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Wed Apr 5 12:32:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E293129490 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 12:32:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.918 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.918 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O2jj4Gn5aow6 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 12:32:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob20.registeredsite.com (atl4mhob20.registeredsite.com [209.17.115.114]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B14B112709D for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 12:32:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.208]) by atl4mhob20.registeredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v35JW2tB010556 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2017 15:32:02 -0400 Received: (qmail 24467 invoked by uid 0); 5 Apr 2017 19:32:01 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 68.100.68.25 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.160?) (lee@asgard.org@68.100.68.25) by 0 with ESMTPA; 5 Apr 2017 19:32:00 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.2.170228 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 15:31:57 -0400 From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" CC: "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Decisions regarding IPv10 I-D. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3574251120_142627650" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Decisions regarding IPv10 I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2017 19:32:16 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3574251120_142627650 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable To move forward, there must be a clear and documented consensus, as judged by the WG chairs (as you can see at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ they are Wassim Haddad and Juan-Carlos Z=FA=F1iga). Then the WG would adopt the draft, make edits, and make a WGLC (Working Group Last Call). If there was consensus, there would be an IETF Last Call. Based on email traffic, if the WG tried to adopt this, I would appeal the decision.=20 You have another choice: Independent Submission, see rfc6548. The Independent Submission Editor has different requirements and processes, and is designed for alternate perspectives. However, based on the technical objections raised here, I do not think your draft would meet the editorial standards of the ISE. To understand the process, I recommend https://www.ietf.org/tao.html, and https://www.ietf.org/edu/tutorials.html Lee From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 11:02 AM To: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Subject: [Int-area] Decisions regarding IPv10 I-D. > Hi ALL, > =20 > Is there any official decision will be taken regarding the IPv10 I-D whet= her > assigning to a reviewer, changing the status, or publishing the Standard. > =20 > Of course all of you know that the added value by this I-D will affect al= l of > us in a positive way so we shouldn=B9t wait more than that. > =20 > Best Regards, > =20 > Khaled Omar=20 > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --B_3574251120_142627650 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
To move forward, there must b= e a clear and documented consensus, as judged by the WG chairs (as you can s= ee at  https://datatracker.i= etf.org/wg/ they are Wassim Haddad and Juan-Carlos Z=FA=F1iga). Then th= e WG would adopt the draft, make edits, and make a WGLC (Working Group Last = Call). If there was consensus, there would be an IETF Last Call.
<= br>
Based on email traffic, if the WG tried to adopt this, I would= appeal the decision. 

You have another choice= : Independent Submission, see rfc6548. The Independent Submission Editor has= different requirements and processes, and is designed for alternate perspec= tives. However, based on the technical objections raised here, I do not thin= k your draft would meet the editorial standards of the ISE.

To understand the process, I recommend https://www.ietf.org/tao.html, and https://www.ietf.org/edu/tutorials.html



From: Int-area <int-area-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of K= haled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@= hotmail.com>
Date: Wednesda= y, April 5, 2017 at 11:02 AM
To: "= intarea-ads@ietf.org" <intarea-ads@ietf.org>
Cc: "int-area@ie= tf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>= , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" <= ;intarea-chairs@ietf.org>Subject: [Int-area] Decisions regard= ing IPv10 I-D.

Hi ALL,

 

Is there any= official decision will be taken regarding the IPv10 I-D whether assigning t= o a reviewer, changing the status, or publishing the Standard.

 

Of course al= l of you know that the added value by this I-D will affect all of us in a po= sitive way so we shouldn’t wait more than that.

 

Best Regards,

 

Khaled= Omar

_______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/int-area
--B_3574251120_142627650-- From nobody Fri Apr 7 15:17:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B848A12714F for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 15:17:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ieee-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1rYldgBw0ohX for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 15:17:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x235.google.com (mail-oi0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 15CEB129439 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 15:17:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x235.google.com with SMTP id b187so101078025oif.0 for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2017 15:17:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ieee-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CnyVSyTIZK0cq+n+HEtDGY/qa04OVZsGrgMGCuZKP0Q=; b=2HdZy+NXdY1OwTEZZX00QLj3hUQReYdh+RqXOc2niF/hhj2hPwhTztz1/EALIbCtku Dlpc1Dw24Sh4eEBEfYA5t2jKgyooJk5aGryg6b2Fv+Z/jMWIIh4vD0MA69WYBP6I5/ya AU3jhlC0OOY0H5Nipwjv6hrNlt3IUNWSOQoZ6TDbXygwFrogNYEZpzt6g88DeNAbmVDr 64Gny6hVxG/v6YBBjcpShYjZCNRBccWZCYFF9tjfua73umy7i326Z/pXPdc3AC1z+OW+ O+8H06/428InyjapTWlVMrpR8gUxi9+wzhCQIoCLtfABdjlPVfbbBfOXJVQKEVhlE2SS xQCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=CnyVSyTIZK0cq+n+HEtDGY/qa04OVZsGrgMGCuZKP0Q=; b=HrTP23gMzSJ0VSfQm0srg3uFISHjTYcg5XXzW96ukX8IT9ZeVacsHwW5ZwfFDPYhK+ MTLaOoRT7DsVMcB42rodAVKYeO3y38H7d12uf5QQHMJAOnjL5QKYjtiYLftnHryojpLF knrK2OMbypQvPJFmF7VWKMm8l3jQeQp+8JV+t/qgc/s+WnkeATDbnQKl+Xm+eu6PO4Ex u1YJKZ4g1Tt8ItfpKs8E9yBve3d4/9ccO2Kw71vN70roVeAdeLV/ZM9xA/1qRMpWA+p0 DMVIyoHls7IsOTnF/ixgWvTDeb+EwqxKe1LuQVSNY2fHl+B0tXgxdak/eIsAFHdVfD8+ CjCA== X-Gm-Message-State: AFeK/H0JzTVS+H4R2yUomUN6GKLcip5ARLtNUvfObp27Y7noXIpR5cmdeO+Tn8TJO8bx8SD+GCLlc4CtGZYCJs7U X-Received: by 10.157.60.187 with SMTP id z56mr11464743otc.34.1491603443128; Fri, 07 Apr 2017 15:17:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.96.69 with HTTP; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 15:17:22 -0700 (PDT) From: Juan Carlos Zuniga Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 18:17:22 -0400 Message-ID: To: int-area@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c1924945fc616054c9afd3e Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] IETF 98 Minutes X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2017 22:17:30 -0000 --94eb2c1924945fc616054c9afd3e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hello, The minutes of the IntArea meeting at IETF 98 in Chicago are here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-98-intarea/ Thanks again to Ian Farrer for taking notes during the meeting. Best, Juan Carlos & Wassim --94eb2c1924945fc616054c9afd3e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello,

The minutes of the IntArea meeti= ng at IETF 98 in Chicago are here:


Thanks again t= o Ian Farrer for taking notes during the meeting.

= Best,

Juan Carlos & Wassim
--94eb2c1924945fc616054c9afd3e-- From nobody Fri Apr 7 15:35:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1166B128B8E for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 15:35:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.145 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.145 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a4r8YCkp4i4S for ; 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Fri, 7 Apr 2017 22:35:11 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.2.51) by VE1EUR01FT010.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.2.83) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1019.14 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 22:35:11 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::bd5b:1ace:ba8d:6166%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1005.023; Fri, 7 Apr 2017 22:35:10 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Juan Carlos Zuniga , "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IETF 98 Minutes Thread-Index: AQHSr+zFs09Kx+lURU6wQGRhCdNJqA== Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2017 22:35:10 +0000 Message-ID: References: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ieee.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ieee.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:2CB03D585A112DF6369DCCCF592C5E7DACD7CD3889C12F121FA3491FA9F87C74; 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Sun, 9 Apr 2017 12:37:18 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:2d50:0:c85:8cff:fe0f:63fe]) (Authenticated sender: linus.luessing@c0d3.blue) by mail.aperture-lab.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 12:37:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 12:37:16 +0200 From: Linus =?utf-8?Q?L=C3=BCssing?= To: int-area@ietf.org Cc: j.c.zuniga@ieee.org, draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802@ietf.org, "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Message-ID: <20170409103716.GE10335@otheros> References: <6464383E-6F47-4890-982E-3ADA9ADE80B3@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <6464383E-6F47-4890-982E-3ADA9ADE80B3@cisco.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] [pim] Fwd: [ieee-ietf-coord] draft on Multicast Considerations over IEEE 802 Wireless Media X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 10:37:24 -0000 > From: Juan Carlos Zuniga > > Date: March 31, 2017 at 8:33:01 AM CDT > To: ieee-ietf-coord@ietf.org, Juan Carlos Zuniga > > Subject: [ieee-ietf-coord] draft on Multicast Considerations over IEEE 802 Wireless Media > > Hello all, > > This is the draft that I mentioned during the meeting. Please take a look and provide inputs either here or in the IntArea WG list (int-area@ietf.org): > > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802-02 Hi everyone, Thanks for raising awareness of the potential pitfalls concerning multicast on 802.11! Had to find out about them the hard way back then, so I am really looking forward to this RFC :). My comment/wish is just about multicast group awareness: In "3.2.3. - MLD issues" I would have expected some notes regarding the issue of IGMP/MLD report suppression and how this makes it difficult to track per STA group membership state. I would have then expected a section regarding "Multicast Group Awareness / Multicast Snooping" in "4 - Multicast protocol optimizations", explaining how it can improve performance, but what would need to be done to mitigate those report suppression issues: If applying some multicast group awareness then how RFC4541 would need to be translated from bridges to APs (i.e. by interpreting each STA as an individual "switch port" - and emphasizing again where to and where not to forward IGMP/MLD reports). An older version of OpenWRT missed RFC4541 for its group-aware multicast-to-unicast implementation some years ago entirely, resulting in ugly packetloss back then... Regards, Linus From nobody Sun Apr 9 04:15:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB95E1293EB; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 04:15:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id be22tw9OWN4b; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 04:15:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.aperture-lab.de (mail.aperture-lab.de [IPv6:2a01:4f8:171:314c::100:a1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3D290126BF0; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 04:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.aperture-lab.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82EA2E24CA; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 13:15:03 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at aperture-lab.de Received: from mail.aperture-lab.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.aperture-lab.de [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10025) with ESMTP id 9ENmGiwTlkJt; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 13:15:03 +0200 (CEST) Received: from localhost (unknown [IPv6:2001:67c:2d50:0:c85:8cff:fe0f:63fe]) (Authenticated sender: linus.luessing@c0d3.blue) by mail.aperture-lab.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA; Sun, 9 Apr 2017 13:15:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2017 13:15:00 +0200 From: Linus =?utf-8?Q?L=C3=BCssing?= To: int-area@ietf.org Cc: j.c.zuniga@ieee.org, draft-perkins-intarea-multicast-ieee802@ietf.org, "Alvaro Retana (aretana)" Message-ID: <20170409111500.GF10335@otheros> References: <6464383E-6F47-4890-982E-3ADA9ADE80B3@cisco.com> <20170409103716.GE10335@otheros> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <20170409103716.GE10335@otheros> User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.24 (2015-08-30) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] [pim] Fwd: [ieee-ietf-coord] draft on Multicast Considerations over IEEE 802 Wireless Media X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2017 11:15:07 -0000 On Sun, Apr 09, 2017 at 12:37:16PM +0200, Linus Lüssing wrote: > An older version of OpenWRT missed RFC4541 for its group-aware > multicast-to-unicast implementation some years ago entirely, > resulting in ugly packetloss back then... By the way, the according (fixed/working :) ) patch got accepted upstream in the Linux kernel just recently. There had been quite some discussions on the according mailinglists, because the according patch was basically hijacking the Linux bridge code (the "software switch" implementation in Linux which conveniently already provided IGMP/MLD snooping). Also, there was a submission at the same time for a non-group-aware multicas-to-unicast patch which was done entirelly in the Linux wireless stack though. So there were some thoughts and discussions on moving smartness more into the Linux wireless stack. Regarding the IETF-IEEE coordination I would be curious to know how much smartness to implement into a generic wireless stack makes sense. For instance, does it make sense to implement some group-aware, QoS-aware, clever algorithm in a wireless stack to convert a multicast packet to a mix of multicast and unicast frames to be transmitted at various, selected 802.11 bitrates? Or will wifi chips be able to provide a superior, more convenient solution in the future? Regards, Linus From nobody Thu Apr 13 09:40:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1C5B0129521 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:40:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=ieee-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jwj2lUz-VKGx for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:40:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22f.google.com (mail-oi0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D85D129555 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id r203so71154560oib.3 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:40:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=ieee-org.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Ci27eUnlw5tjt83nzdjyORKb/UrtWTy8aeR0+upPX7c=; b=lWZDu7DiW50BlxHmOOsGA8o1NY93FBji7gqon+8HNJjLIWkJ5d2DssHWqP4TLUGYWf fQ+86w/MB/CwuKDV1aDAkkbKrQrpa7AgKWIVN5Pp3bhkp22D0KXmfynppj0LSLoOO2jU ai8STc72rG8FSDZ4Wr97B8EniOY8FWMGl0BNN2kKaYz4IAiZbwJRKm3vORUVDWaXq3rn NmEMmGAC2JZS4xUF8vXdrnNMBLzHOhb/yHVBFnL+ju9cZ0Kf0sRmWQ3BJVadf3JRqAAE BK3U6yZIc/FUDi5GIjguwTfeW43sA2tVrz+hq6FezuxA8XoNw3/dlMahWPI6M+ezGja4 s+mA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ci27eUnlw5tjt83nzdjyORKb/UrtWTy8aeR0+upPX7c=; b=JSkSJ8Bf4c+4QB8aKzQB0QLb8UpOo/QM1y2cNcRDa0Chxt1Aje2BTtfDi8VotvOH6n fyyGw3VZCE5wZUBsBO1aHJsJQ4uboLt6McCJPBvuAM1YNKBxXTXL7o4/U2hDsi7IoqyK SFgmtIj3hlv65zT4y3nntuSdVWUpMVKGF6sgonA5GOj+ob0csv7ZMkMIFfxyhjkxRgyZ HUFoYN3kayvqiSNEOiR0RqnQNWqhaQCE5biaAeWMv2hOSOYDlFDfU4VRYKRD5e+HPS5d rQh6vSOSV6DI1iuqTaHHbp5vXiTRIjTPQ8ZLay37Mu+54fKaWJoU/KfyNwht5ogPzxIh 276A== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/6ImUvbvpJ2KdpJO3Giha/EUzOYV+s8V9gDFe00MT9DQnXQIgAk CEyQGAHEStxcSA/hv56Ip9zAYOfNZUmF X-Received: by 10.202.61.65 with SMTP id k62mr2237823oia.43.1492101639562; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:40:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.221.65 with HTTP; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 09:40:39 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Juan Carlos Zuniga Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 12:40:39 -0400 Message-ID: To: Lee Howard Cc: Khaled Omar , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113cc1e8320cc8054d0efc39 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Decisions regarding IPv10 I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 16:40:44 -0000 --001a113cc1e8320cc8054d0efc39 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello all, As explained to Khaled, since there is no rough consensus and based on the technical feedback, we will not be progressing the draft. Thanks to Christian, Lee, Mikael, and others for their technical reviews and procedural advice given to the author. Best, Juan Carlos & Wassim (IntArea WG chairs) On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 3:31 PM, Lee Howard wrote: > To move forward, there must be a clear and documented consensus, as judge= d > by the WG chairs (as you can see at https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ the= y > are Wassim Haddad and Juan-Carlos Z=C3=BA=C3=B1iga). Then the WG would ad= opt the > draft, make edits, and make a WGLC (Working Group Last Call). If there wa= s > consensus, there would be an IETF Last Call. > > Based on email traffic, if the WG tried to adopt this, I would appeal the > decision. > > You have another choice: Independent Submission, see rfc6548. The > Independent Submission Editor has different requirements and processes, a= nd > is designed for alternate perspectives. However, based on the technical > objections raised here, I do not think your draft would meet the editoria= l > standards of the ISE. > > To understand the process, I recommend https://www.ietf.org/tao.html, and > https://www.ietf.org/edu/tutorials.html > > Lee > > > > From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar < > eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> > Date: Wednesday, April 5, 2017 at 11:02 AM > To: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" > Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" < > intarea-chairs@ietf.org> > Subject: [Int-area] Decisions regarding IPv10 I-D. > > Hi ALL, > > > > Is there any official decision will be taken regarding the IPv10 I-D > whether assigning to a reviewer, changing the status, or publishing the > Standard. > > > > Of course all of you know that the added value by this I-D will affect al= l > of us in a positive way so we shouldn=E2=80=99t wait more than that. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Khaled Omar > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > --001a113cc1e8320cc8054d0efc39 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hello all,

As explained to Khaled, sinc= e there is no rough consensus and based on the technical feedback, we will = not be progressing the draft.

Thanks to Christian,= Lee, Mikael, and others for their technical reviews and procedural advice = given to the author.

Best,

Juan Carlos & Wassim
(IntArea WG chairs)

On Wed, Apr 5, 2017 at 3= :31 PM, Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org> wrote:
To move forward, there must be a= clear and documented consensus, as judged by the WG chairs (as you can see= at =C2=A0ht= tps://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/=C2=A0they are Wassim Haddad and Jua= n-Carlos Z=C3=BA=C3=B1iga). Then the WG would adopt the draft, make edits, = and make a WGLC (Working Group Last Call). If there was consensus, there wo= uld be an IETF Last Call.

Based on email traffic, = if the WG tried to adopt this, I would appeal the decision.=C2=A0

You have another choice: Independent Submission, see rfc654= 8. The Independent Submission Editor has different requirements and process= es, and is designed for alternate perspectives. However, based on the techn= ical objections raised here, I do not think your draft would meet the edito= rial standards of the ISE.

To understand the proce= ss, I recommend=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/tao.html, and=C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/edu/= tutorials.html

Lee



From: <= /span> Int-area <int-area-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.oma= r@hotmail.com>
Date: Wed= nesday, April 5, 2017 at 11:02 AM
To: <= /span> "inta= rea-ads@ietf.org" <intarea-ads@ietf.org>
Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" <int-area@ietf.org>, "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" <intarea-chairs@iet= f.org>
Subject: [Int-are= a] Decisions regarding IPv10 I-D.

=

Hi ALL,<= /u>

=C2=A0

Is there any official decision will be taken regarding the IPv10 I-D whet= her assigning to a reviewer, changing the status, or publishing the Standar= d.

=C2=A0

Of course all of you know that the added value by this I-D w= ill affect all of us in a positive way so we shouldn=E2=80=99t wait more th= an that.

=C2=A0

Best Regards,

= =C2=A0

Khaled Omar

_______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area


--001a113cc1e8320cc8054d0efc39-- From nobody Thu Apr 13 11:15:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 852D6131571; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:15:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03CjNRkIzNBN; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:15:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D96EC13156B; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:15:14 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-42bff700000058cf-8b-58ef79d5205d Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 92.A3.22735.5D97FE85; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 15:15:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [155.53.28.126] (147.117.188.8) by smtp-am.internal.ericsson.com (147.117.188.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.339.0; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:15:11 -0400 From: Wassim Haddad Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_EB6B0074-2447-4895-B178-A837E63D3CF4" MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:15:29 -0700 CC: Wassim Haddad , To: "int-area@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFlrILMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPgu6NyvcRBltmSlrcmHWTxWL2Ay8H Jo8lS34yBTBGcdmkpOZklqUW6dslcGXMfLiYveA6b8W+T33sDYzzeLoYOTkkBEwkWi/3MnUx cnEICWxglHi+6BI7hLOOUaJhxQ9GkCo2AQOJr8vPsoLYzAJJEm1vtrCA2LwC+hKvdv9kB7GF gWpm79/DCBG3l7hz5QNYDYuAqsShT5OYIXo9Jdp/fQeLiwhoS+x/coAF4gpZiVuzL4HVCAmo S0y5NYFlAiPvLCTrZiFZBxHXlli28DXzLEYOIFtTYv0ufVRhEFtDonXOXPYFjGyrGDlKiwty ctONDDcxAgPumASb4w7Gvb2ehxgFOBiVeHgVfN5HCLEmlhVX5h5ilOBgVhLhrdoKFOJNSays Si3Kjy8qzUktPsQozcGiJM77rvxChJBAemJJanZqakFqEUyWiYNTqoFRN2nBhhNmLR4Hjt2u X+82yVCmkz/nhF2SyDMVJ1evq1bTN19+vVi2R8yzwNQgpW2h3yX/rbJuB1pEOWdcfvz/+77c /l01P6fcl1NbXu/2W+Zzl+23/Qs38frdNX/476a2VUhVwsm9B9jtlR4rsDBKVZ5gU92ydUKA g7FkqpaBTqlggCvD1lAlluKMREMt5qLiRABO3cKgNAIAAA== Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 18:15:18 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_EB6B0074-2447-4895-B178-A837E63D3CF4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Dear all, We would like to start a WG adoption call for = draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04 (=E2=80=9CExtended Ping (Xping)=E2=80=9D): https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04.txt = Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is = April 28th. Regards, Wassim & Juan Carlos --Apple-Mail=_EB6B0074-2447-4895-B178-A837E63D3CF4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Dear all,

We would like to start = a WG adoption call = for draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04 (=E2=80=9CExtended Ping = (Xping)=E2=80=9D):

https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04.txt=

Please = indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is April = 28th.


Regards,

Wassim = & Juan Carlos




= --Apple-Mail=_EB6B0074-2447-4895-B178-A837E63D3CF4-- From nobody Thu Apr 13 14:37:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 666AD129AA4; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:37:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.145 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.145 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v9lpwczF0sam; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:37:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092070106.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.70.106]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD934127843; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 14:37:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=YcXucF6rTrVl7YDbRBDutSLnlevtujp82ObrrQHpP/E=; b=i65558I0JcRHeOBG5TQMCb+p6s4jVEoGIJewz7Muv6Cj1MI5qDkJ6KpfEk03zZBLim8T4UkmA6XcVbjMGxy2bjrRfL4bQNfMAziTQTsEeHn9kRCVXKEES2aIxkXkilLinLst5FjBX2Ga8pPrzwyjeMM4Pykoy/YF1Qslk3UTrJqDS+JlvbN7P0o2UmdpCYwdY2xzh1ASLStI/W6wZWBkLepk7cvu1o0QqKBabtWu4LMb4BXFYZ2GgWLNixh0EymvXlZJOz3O14fum4c+FJCgBdjuzCojZquPw46W+25B+czLl1VytUMonI8/GYEHat0K8wriB0/2oBbTJs8ByStQKQ== Received: from AM5EUR03FT047.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.16.54) by AM5EUR03HT132.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.17.206) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1019.14; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:37:05 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.16.54) by AM5EUR03FT047.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.16.197) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1019.14 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:37:05 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1019.026; Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:37:05 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: "ietf-draft-submission@ietf.org" CC: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "Juan Carlos Zuniga" Thread-Topic: Internet Protocol Mixture (IPmix) I-D. Thread-Index: AdK0jdyM2+gXTb+TR7+T08kbjR2QcwADPC4AAACpQWA= Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:37:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:BA117BF2C0F8F32823431B8DE9FC3FA1DE0087F63B8C6A9ABA060C2D51E093F9; UpperCasedChecksum:DA938707A6AA029D8B098FA65E12C4D2C19D5649734C737F1E79C72DEFDFBBE1; SizeAsReceived:8388; Count:42 x-tmn: [PECdFsdTfS/HR+3XKk0uduXzAKPC2mev] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR03HT132; 5:ztJRsdm+Tkjo9WBCJxuBeXvPeC0RzKmSF0i+2yqtDksnunI6DTkSMUQW1IziHQBv+wVuhfG+4hBzeei85Sj6/C2VaIltwbDhiZTlBEZ9vE0SRRVvscLoQUCpcfowOnxtPWloZ3mVtEn19GJGHEu+ag==; 24:sRqn7P0Kkls3LTAkOI18c87JSThq8UgKA5Gx5ZUqI6Cz1I1eDHDCT8zR2iobTW+PS5mJDpk/0OMVGJIUx8sqDrkDIGbaT3E8KL9duAUz3gs=; 7:RGZhWgbOPSHlEMCqGyWhS3fYL3/CKkGvjhMVHUkTUhmgw2ndIZfF67k2jnxJmbhkFevxuTyUeTtuy3HlOzUCL69zNNOv9uym/jrA+MwtafrWEDvplIHvH951fnK0wZDcuorYHZFvzWmZ8Db0aUUKlUPTeKA0AP0jNlcPCynTWw+87bfIFQPpDJzcAlnv8mXlDdqkZPTP4wvEVtHOZB61a3BC+QyDNZXR8R7WfzymguejPcC9/VGitRSZ+d5qoLBvIFEszEcl6XUqCFW3o4TCfnPkLO31KM6Xm43nV7dBcTt7KacRWMs7L++k5e0Ybl2l x-incomingheadercount: 42 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT132; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 06eeab97-a8b3-4708-df50-08d482b53b02 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322274)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT132; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT132; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT132; x-forefront-prvs: 02760F0D1C spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB2241465670D6F446979D8A9EBD020AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Apr 2017 21:37:05.4866 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR03HT132 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Internet Protocol Mixture (IPmix) I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 21:37:10 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241465670D6F446979D8A9EBD020AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Juan, The new I-D is not uploaded yet, anyway forget it, I'll ask Jasmine again f= or not uploading it. Jasmine, I know it is weird to ask for something then ask for the opposite,= but please don't upload the new IPmix I-D. Thanks juan for the decision regarding IPv10 I-D, wish you all good luck in= finding an alternative solution for the IPv4 address exhaustion problem. From: Juan Carlos Zuniga [mailto:juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com] Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 11:24 PM To: Khaled Omar; ietf-draft-submission@ietf.org Cc: intarea-chairs@ietf.org; intarea-ads@ietf.org; ietf-secretariat@ietf.or= g Subject: RE: Internet Protocol Mixture (IPmix) I-D. (cc'ing IntArea Chairs and Area Directors for record) Khaled, You are free to write your own internet-drafts, but you have no right to us= e other people's name and affiliation without their consent. I have not given you consent to use my name, my company's name, nor I have = contributed to your draft. Since this could have some legal implications, I ask you for the last time = to stop using my name and my company's details for your individual submissi= ons. Otherwise, I will be obliged to take active action against it. Please don't do it again. Respectfully, Juan-Carlos ZUNIGA From: Khaled Omar [mailto:eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com] Sent: April 13, 2017 9:41 PM To: ietf-draft-submission@ietf.org Cc: Juan Carlos Zuniga > Subject: Internet Protocol Mixture (IPmix) I-D. Hi Jasmine, Sorry if I'm bothering you, but thanks for your added value. It is the same as before, I still not able to upload by myself, so please u= pload the new IPmix I-D attached. Best Regards, Khaled Omar --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241465670D6F446979D8A9EBD020AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Juan,

 

The new I-D is not upl= oaded yet, anyway forget it, I’ll ask Jasmine again for not uploading= it.

 

Jasmine, I know it is = weird to ask for something then ask for the opposite, but please don’= t upload the new IPmix I-D.

 

Thanks juan for the de= cision regarding IPv10 I-D, wish you all good luck in finding an alternativ= e solution for the IPv4 address exhaustion problem.

   

 

From: Juan Carlos Zuniga [mailto:juancarlos.z= uniga@sigfox.com]
Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2017 11:24 PM
To: Khaled Omar; ietf-draft-submission@ietf.org
Cc: intarea-chairs@ietf.org; intarea-ads@ietf.org; ietf-secretariat@= ietf.org
Subject: RE: Internet Protocol Mixture (IPmix) I-D.

 

(cc’ing IntArea Chairs an= d Area Directors for record)

 

Khaled,

 

You are free to write your own = internet-drafts, but you have no right to use other people’s name and= affiliation without their consent.

 

I have not given you consent to= use my name, my company’s name, nor I have contributed to your draft= .

 

Since this could have some lega= l implications, I ask you for the last time to stop using my name and my co= mpany’s details for your individual submissions. Otherwise, I will be= obliged to take active action against it.

 

Please don’t do it again.=

 

Respectfully,=

 

Juan-Carlos ZUNIGA

 

 

 

 

 

From: Khaled Omar [mailto:eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com]
Sent: April 13, 2017 9:41 PM
To: ietf-draft-sub= mission@ietf.org
Cc: Juan Carlos Zuniga <juancarlos.zuniga@sigfox.com>
Subject: Internet Protocol Mixture (IPmix) I-D.

 

Hi Jasmine,

 

Sorry if I’m bothering you, but thanks for you= r added value.

 

It is the same as before, I still not able to upload= by myself, so please upload the new IPmix I-D attached.

 

Best Regards,

 

Khaled Omar

--_000_AM4PR0401MB2241465670D6F446979D8A9EBD020AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Fri Apr 14 07:07:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C7B1E129445 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 07:07:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.921 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.921 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=junipernetworks.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eBtNSpVk7cSK for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 07:07:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM03-DM3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-dm3nam03on0126.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.41.126]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 42D2B12F24E for ; 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dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR0501MB2052; 7:fgtm6zp0OqIgVSq1mYEt+CvzVE1TAzmORy2ojrTx+juUuKc4m+NGMX1oJrdHI3l7Xga8rQn6tXaK8z1TSha7UYwEQ94IoDB8/cNuR+/EKuRemKEigmbDU+6KjYc3KsaPkIZ25Z8IaXjsDMpVCjxMaDiN1c0UayFReELaam/Ws9MEkG0Cp7JzreLVt+AZw8/y0JfpioSh2Lu4Bllg5Ih82C0BtWWV/HPnjYAMB/gI9yp465J2E7XI1LPALmIoxYmumHLy26A8WxVx/6NW1orr7X9r+Gt3zeKOVmJW0JGrj90k4vBPYz2cvGzaaRUXkDrHKfdb2hmldJRH6RVBDHHMBQ== x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 78805233-921a-40b7-4daf-08d4833f8baf x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(2017030254075)(48565401081)(201703131423075)(201703031133081)(201702281549075); SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2052; x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(37575265505322); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(6040450)(601004)(2401047)(5005006)(8121501046)(10201501046)(3002001)(93006095)(93001095)(6055026)(6041248)(20161123560025)(201703131423075)(201702281528075)(201703061421075)(20161123555025)(20161123564025)(20161123562025)(6072148); SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2052; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2052; x-forefront-prvs: 02778BF158 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(39410400002)(39400400002)(39860400002)(39850400002)(39840400002)(39450400003)(512874002)(81166006)(54356999)(50986999)(229853002)(8936002)(189998001)(7696004)(9686003)(6306002)(55016002)(99286003)(6436002)(6506006)(5640700003)(53936002)(8676002)(122556002)(6916009)(77096006)(7736002)(305945005)(2351001)(6246003)(5660300001)(110136004)(38730400002)(2900100001)(3660700001)(3280700002)(2501003)(66066001)(33656002)(86362001)(25786009)(6116002)(3846002)(102836003)(74316002)(2906002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2052; H:BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Apr 2017 14:07:11.4532 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2052 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2017 14:07:19 -0000 Speaking as a co-author, I support it. >=20 > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2017 11:15:29 -0700 > From: Wassim Haddad > To: "int-area@ietf.org" > Cc: Wassim Haddad , > > Subject: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > We would like to start a WG adoption call for draft-bonica-intarea-eping-= 04 > (?Extended Ping (Xping)?): >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04.txt > >=20 > Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is Ap= ril > 28th. >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Wassim & Juan Carlos >=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Apr 14 15:58:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D67E4129B06; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:58:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mXbW8PQu853C; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:58:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092067045.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.67.45]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 65CC3129AC7; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 15:58:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=3pbBJlprme4Cyhw/fyZxoTIGdP3kA39sOiJ0w1JoIRc=; b=daVHLAU1f9HcjBoVP9Yo+11YREPG7chOeVoeEV1RCwtcI7l5eNe1tPde0X3CHev/mhVgjG5lYluvLFZp6P1CgMlt7p2K8fecGYsQ0ROgbd1YAGznSKkxIUOouD11kAuIwSMUXKjtr3a2gvfpX4Af2kDiYcP0Au8o6y9GchEYmbKDwEAQU9uZnwKp/zSvPi4yJ2vvrswwkLH6/fh2PUNrAjuKsvdUEdq2+fsneF74sKbNS+9Jw+uEL/16dMNyJYFh4PP3f0Pr0vf7nZHh9hCMl/csOgv5av6kKKSKWW2v7E81ocGifwOOeQnreX9PTF+OR8O7Rgdwfd+TcHbiwwLM8Q== Received: from HE1EUR02FT043.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.10.56) by HE1EUR02HT210.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.11.156) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1019.14; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:58:31 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.10.53) by HE1EUR02FT043.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.11.140) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1019.14 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:58:31 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1034.013; Fri, 14 Apr 2017 22:58:30 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Juan Carlos Zuniga CC: "ietf-draft-submission@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [www.ietf.org/rt #165925] RE: Internet Protocol Mixture (IPmix) I-D. 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X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:57:10 -0000 DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBLaGFsZWQgT21hciBbbWFpbHRv OmVuZy5raGFsZWQub21hckBob3RtYWlsLmNvbV0gDQpTZW50OiBTYXR1cmRheSwgQXByaWwgMTUs IDIwMTcgMzowOSBQTQ0KVG86IGludC1hcmVhDQpDYzogaW50YXJlYS1hZHM7IGludGFyZWEtY2hh aXJzOyBpZXRmDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBHb29nbGUgU3RhdGlzdGljcyBmb3IgSVB2NiBhZG9wdGlvbi4N Cg0KSGkgYWxsLA0KDQpQbGVhc2UgY2hlY2sgb3V0IHRoaXMgbGluayB0aGF0IHNob3dzIHRoZSBz dGF0aXN0aWNzIG9mIHRoZSBJUHY2IGFkb3B0aW9uIG92ZXIgdGhlIHBhc3QgMTAgeWVhcnMgbWF5 YmUgaXQgd2lsbCBtYWtlIHlvdSBiZWxpZXZlIHdoYXQgd2FzIHNhaWQgZWFybGllci4NCg0KIGh0 dHBzOi8vd3d3Lmdvb2dsZS5jb20vaW50bC9lbi9pcHY2L3N0YXRpc3RpY3MuaHRtbA0KDQpSZWNl bnQgSVB2NiBhZG9wdGlvbiAoQXByaWwsIDIwMTcpIGlzOg0KMTQuODMlIE5hdGl2ZSAtIDAuMDMl IDZ0bzQgLSAxNC44NyUgVG90YWwNCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpLaGFsZWQgT21hcg0K From nobody Sat Apr 15 08:58:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46263129404 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:58:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CyYt9VpzGi8u for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x22f.google.com (mail-qk0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 895C0127ABE for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:58:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id h67so83163045qke.0 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:58:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=UszIpvke2QHBN8CmYvc1ta4oGZxnglPUugWH7H50MJc=; b=tYMQpWccfyYNSf5nlI9WN9fyIkNqpLEl6XdhrjiofO+gAJldl+dXPiB9/ZadzufJjN XGTeXpYWEdia7uVdcbXvXbwk9ffZ+T8eXY7LE8ApKYBXPtaCc5gQTobGvHBeVUkdfyUr U/c9q+uf8kcgyT3k8KGogdc0PnZu/6f4GgqXzryI5XtvSsVbWARKJetYh8SGxIz6WmEg FRCB+bCX0+RgNDH01yJtoLiMUamkavm9sRjYDMfTtFtxOPTwFGNRc/0YYjZGAAYhDsS2 touXgohQe09U9v7InZv5BHkA/FYV81gWHIOM/pKJQ1Mpdnt/SolVsSlwHGEU3oJPm7FE aC+w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=UszIpvke2QHBN8CmYvc1ta4oGZxnglPUugWH7H50MJc=; b=g5bYXQr3azhtTh0QrEfFk4CyR2/G5D+i3HRseMxL+0WvvU3yWlYHwSa3OTka69z8np BnrW9UtEsKIflf/ZA5J9aNPKGGIS3W3m51QbAqcWS0xJILy2J16OwJx9+MRMn5d0Z1L3 JgAGGSeZjQcgH8ZAV+7go8EIFCT4psfgpt/DlhlD6ggQ8V3cgoKaEw0sGtEqhfXPM8bF zVcEQSXfzmEFFvfeFYVxZcCs+N4Ymh9O55bMns9W6PnPkoxjGEuw5+0cIuuFiLm0GdUM /8KIFn8ExS7BC83tfNVRhNK7yTVN3wGi9mK7rm/e1DdF1FBhp3F5r3g09Dn/1uOHBjHd ZNmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5v5WVf0SsSQGrs0uaFJ9XkKs3N5nHUyaTVltnI4P07JLJtVsm3 5t/kN03+h9Dtfc2sakVJ5cl7/OlyKw== X-Received: by 10.55.16.32 with SMTP id a32mr2275023qkh.34.1492271905673; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:58:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:58:25 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tom Herbert Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 08:58:25 -0700 Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 15:58:28 -0000 On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Khaled Omar [mailto:eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:09 PM > To: int-area > Cc: intarea-ads; intarea-chairs; ietf > Subject: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. > > Hi all, > > Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 adoption over the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said earlier. > If you carefully at those graphs it's obvious that there has been exponential growth of IPv6 over the past ten years and we're still on the exponential part of the curve. The data does not support the idea that design, implementation, and deployment of another IP version is needed to solve the problem of IPv6 adoption. Tom > https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html > > Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is: > 14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Sat Apr 15 09:08:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8F1D129400 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 09:08:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ooJIca-0ie0J for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 09:08:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092072100.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.72.100]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 965AF1293FF for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 09:08:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=G1PiA05cyF35oj5AA+nb/XrqbCXAyLB89Xnftf78KVY=; b=TjbGRKL76g3oR+ke5KMM7YtdpTz/a1VmM0uUH/FkGlRHvDhcvYvIgB1qj4Lu8W3LpJJ5eZ34XBthbesXUpyUjl+e/FKfngE/iKqe3pOKaoHhxWl2CBhz5bsgaDZddJsGT4nETbF+soaM0u8Yb9O6PccoTmilGC8MkIqTJnErMpzK4i3SJxzkPkZ/tseAXoM/Crb1riO6cDnhCVnWoqiRniFG2JnrR1lbljPX9Gzsz9xpQPSPLAv3DBi8dwe8nPc7mnxSuVV+qr+0mHG8nsRGc/8UwjD4KHmKdvsXO5KppmN8S6cb34iiVKClq97SSKLidsAv0vTlzX1/qOmHBd8xbw== Received: from DB5EUR03FT028.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.20.60) by DB5EUR03HT106.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.21.159) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1019.14; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 16:08:36 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.20.56) by DB5EUR03FT028.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.20.99) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1019.14 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 16:08:36 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1034.013; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 16:08:35 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Tom Herbert CC: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] FW: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. 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Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:15:31 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: christopher.morrow@gmail.com Received: by 10.140.93.5 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:15:30 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Christopher Morrow Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 13:15:30 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: q_sMWEmKYz7RADjZaLmrC-re_EE Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area , intarea-ads , ietf , intarea-chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11400a988db46e054d37b40c Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:15:34 -0000 --001a11400a988db46e054d37b40c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: > Hi all, > > Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 adoption > over the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said earlier. > 'what was said earlier' - citation requested. > > https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html > > Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is: > 14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar --001a11400a988db46e054d37b40c Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.oma= r@hotmail.com> wrote:
Hi al= l,

Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 adoption o= ver the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said earlier.=

'what was said earlier' - cita= tion requested.
=C2=A0

=C2=A0https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/= statistics.html

Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is:
14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total

Best regards,

Khaled Omar

--001a11400a988db46e054d37b40c-- From nobody Sat Apr 15 10:52:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EBDD12922E; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:52:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.146 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.146 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QjLm7eviDx4O; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092067013.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.67.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D74D124281; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 10:52:25 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=2Uuyny40c7yMku2/r+t2avQKj1g/b+HYEUMk7AfYFEQ=; b=TEoXJDz5CyAubFeeQZV5eJxOakN7lQ/eIPhxxg8jboAXLvPGUmQ1pI9EaZA3K3DUkkO1qvWlxsa/fXU+b5GwSF1ShXCWTqfm7JqiecJdbBGHHExfgu5Gs5Fk9Z/CPmU0ci/IFvY618uXo8CWQIEJhPF5P6iJAL+Sc3oeMyHW/G/FlURcTVfh6W4WcLOgOILelxu+0E2sCrFRdFZ87qlfE/PolT+SxjpF7kzcPn8hlH4KT6rXUABX1BMSctnGc5haIoXZCBtcltSbsLHJhBltNgyyGZfKNcloGFBkXf9nrohJ8bfP8eiKXAxIrBguDZ0u2S748Lo5T78C4ULsEb3liQ== Received: from AM5EUR02FT065.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.8.57) by AM5EUR02HT003.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.8.135) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1019.14; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:52:23 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.8.52) by AM5EUR02FT065.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.9.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1019.14 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:52:23 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1034.013; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:52:23 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Christopher Morrow CC: "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. Thread-Index: AQHStemMObrieeNbo0ud4Z8rRPM6OKHGq/AAgAAIk3A= Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 17:52:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:9D9B6F54CA7E90502FE05CE401C9B33784DEFEFC969016AAE24B40E6F95D1F42; UpperCasedChecksum:AE03A5ED14940F6C9D07CEC0E22E58C03A58235E911BC83A2BE53F5D0FBEF25C; SizeAsReceived:8318; Count:42 x-tmn: [VjPDzs/GdplTmEDyXZNtAUhxzaF6MWQ1] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR02HT003; 5:qkvpgu/cCxu8AEYKIIVKVuYZul/Tl1q6sXqgnqjPq0g77/8lXsbgng29JG4OsmJxZsHK9NGP0EI5i9nrb246wuYT2f2TEEGRBkKtBxzhAiIEE3BgN1M/MCWqNNK2QqK8Xvgz7+5ZhBwI+5oMMcEeDQ==; 24:1oM4JQv6l5jwab00vvp19jqctBhdCDxvAfcdkIUYUocAICmsyZpkSi8+AH0CaJ29YiB8xkxP1Kzg+/WkWuXeeJ0/dHAdH8Wx09hKVNqEYP4=; 7:9/aRrO8dgEVI+s+gYCyCCXstF+GVFvV51sw3s3Bwm1b4eMJ2Rzesjqzb351EZzW21fE7qUTKy0me/++qA7txAqhn9Qk8SsKaAtDOQwrwkX7CdPNQCYLrgvkPpQAfamdbXq5eqOT5eOvWJfWAkSWFbsnqmx0JHliqssH9co8rSPLwFlaKhOKctBKRaY2kEb/9n9h4CxhdIXmDMs2IdWuHMvYqYt3gLz6TtE9brQ4Wtqc3Cpdk1CQrFC/BcarK3jTbW0r2i1r72m4rXuzlcpZmBL1UhE1gECt0aOnWfMutIFAxGROEo3w5QwRvMGbExviz x-incomingheadercount: 42 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR02HT003; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 4b2ace8a-c27a-4a69-4bfe-08d484282be8 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322274)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT003; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT003; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:AM5EUR02HT003; x-forefront-prvs: 02788FF38E spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB2241F94B536F114D83190A14BD040AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Apr 2017 17:52:23.4973 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR02HT003 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. 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HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id brEdt9ahyWLb; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from puck.nether.net (puck.nether.net [204.42.254.5]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82D2B12783A; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 11:47:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:2603:3015:3603:8e00:393d:652c:6409:ddf8] (unknown [IPv6:2603:3015:3603:8e00:393d:652c:6409:ddf8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by puck.nether.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4D0AF5408BA; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:47:21 -0400 (EDT) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-6FED0A38-EFE2-47DC-8A24-3ED36D34AE2B Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Jared Mauch X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (14E304) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:47:20 -0400 Cc: Christopher Morrow , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <40315FF7-DD5D-4A3D-BCA5-C6D4C17CE8A9@puck.nether.net> References: To: Khaled Omar Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 18:47:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail-6FED0A38-EFE2-47DC-8A24-3ED36D34AE2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable There is not a correlation between this graph and traffic the way you purpor= t hence the [missing citation] aspect of the discussion. An enterprise actua= lly moves less traffic than a consumer on a per user basis, so if a home is I= Pv6 enabled and runs a lot of YouTube, Netflix, etc the bits per IP are not e= qual.=20 Enterprise, eyeball and wholesale networks have vastly different traffic cha= racteristics. If you use the Alexa top 1000 or 1 million you see many IPv6 e= nabled sites as they are hosted on cloudflare which dual stacks by default v= s other CDNs that don't.=20 Using one datapoint, an ad network (google) is helpful to understand what br= owser users might look like but a set top box without a browser may move sig= nificantly more bits and not be apparent at all in the IPv6 stats at google.= =20 Hope this helps.=20 Jared Mauch > On Apr 15, 2017, at 1:52 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Hi Christopher, > =20 > > 'what was said earlier' - citation requested. > =20 > What I said means that since I wrote the IPv10 I-D on Google blogger, I wr= ote that the deployment of IPv6 is about 5% of the Internet traffic, and I g= ot responses from some IETF members Just claiming that this is a wrong perce= ntage and the real exceeds 60% and gave me some examples of mobile providers= =E2=80=99 statistics. > =20 > So, this Google statistics confirms what I had said earlier because I got t= his percent from some online statistics that belongs to the IP address assig= nment process. > =20 > I would like to thank Google for the efforts made to make this measurement= s and provide a respectful and real statistics that describes the recent sit= uation so we can make decisions based on it. > =20 > Best Regards, > =20 > Khaled Omar > =20 > =20 > From: christopher.morrow@gmail.com [mailto:christopher.morrow@gmail.com] O= n Behalf Of Christopher Morrow > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:16 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Cc: int-area; intarea-ads; ietf; intarea-chairs > Subject: Re: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. > =20 > =20 > =20 > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Khaled Omar = wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 adoption o= ver the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said earlier. > =20 > 'what was said earlier' - citation requested. > =20 >=20 > https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html >=20 > Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is: > 14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Khaled Omar > =20 --Apple-Mail-6FED0A38-EFE2-47DC-8A24-3ED36D34AE2B Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
There is not a correlation between thi= s graph and traffic the way you purport hence the [missing citation] aspect o= f the discussion. An enterprise actually moves less traffic than a consumer o= n a per user basis, so if a home is IPv6 enabled and runs a lot of YouTube, N= etflix, etc the bits per IP are not equal. 

Enterprise, eyeball and wh= olesale networks have vastly different traffic characteristics. If you use t= he Alexa top 1000 or 1 million you see many IPv6 enabled sites as they are h= osted on cloudflare which dual stacks by default vs other CDNs that don't.&n= bsp;

Using one datapoint, an ad network (google) is helpful to understand w= hat browser users might look like but a set top box without a browser may mo= ve significantly more bits and not be apparent at all in the IPv6 stats at g= oogle. 

Hope this helps. 

Jared Mauch

On Apr= 15, 2017, at 1:52 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Christopher,<= /span>

 

> 'what was said earlier' - citation requested.

 

What I said means that since I wrote the IPv10 I-D on= Google blogger, I wrote that the deployment of IPv6 is about 5% of the Inte= rnet traffic, and I got responses from some IETF members Just claiming that t= his is a wrong percentage and the real exceeds 60% and gave me some examples of mobile providers=E2=80=99= statistics.

 

So, this Google statistics confirms what I had said e= arlier because I got this percent from some online statistics that belongs t= o the IP address assignment process.

 

I would like to thank Google for the efforts made to m= ake this measurements and provide a respectful and real statistics that desc= ribes the recent situation so we can make decisions based on it.<= /p>

 

Best Regards,

 

Khaled Omar

 

 

From: christopher.morrow@gmail.com [mailto:christopher.morrow@gmail.= com] On Behalf Of Christopher Morrow
Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:16 PM
To: Khaled Omar
Cc: int-area; intarea-ads; ietf; intarea-chairs
Subject: Re: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption.

 

 

 

On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar= @hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,

Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 adoption ov= er the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said earlier.

 

'what was said earlier' - citation requested.

 


 https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html

Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is:
14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total

Best regards,

Khaled Omar

 

= --Apple-Mail-6FED0A38-EFE2-47DC-8A24-3ED36D34AE2B-- From nobody Sat Apr 15 12:43:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 72CC6129478 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:43:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Pav532EyUvGv for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x22a.google.com (mail-qk0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 80443129471 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:43:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id d131so84725415qkc.3 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:43:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4v3s8OarNxknO31i9ix2Tg9DN2RAPYS9UCJj6WcM8+0=; b=B5aR1na/jazUG5B/yfG/fixjfpxAWnycn38gqir7Zn9jRAxAUG22qlS3vz3AnTqqe6 JUpOmsCurQOcbgHwo+aLXt4L3jany0ymv+J00UQa0BwOrY4TQA0/0+5G9La0qEjoi1Dv 5HBgA7WfyZdy7Syniy2ON8fNLISV0QoPiVH2GKyI6O6cYXpCeyJkdIV9VpawnU1cWbdK 9oZZeYSQik7ymodCgdsRSbOqSHmxDV6tR9dP9od9fOuNgNjG5cODF/UrSEIKugTybbHI eFKoFiaVdIuic67euXHxJA3y0Kx0RSKVVwBf7JFlUMHAhALvGfiJSxa9HZ2srUwnkNj4 Tvdg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=4v3s8OarNxknO31i9ix2Tg9DN2RAPYS9UCJj6WcM8+0=; b=HtocF4qQX/BqvSyIzB07dsgU2pAfPhl28rmqFPdWIvzMT3UVEWAjdDBqvQc0kc8Z/8 T5QOTxWaYIbrw2tuNwA85PqK0Um79ife3XKTlWh3Janm5CFjRiN5AQF/9ZwJlSBVNTDw JwSuQCRB1Z/ULbIUJh+caF23bZKk6Zq8ZIoJa4E/QxH64KR61r6Y3ooMoTD7cW18xNdE OQbg1ef/0GEELIdi6zCx/VrGt6jePcjeIYLH9A6KTkbIwrZbjOv/HPOeegN93et8BwvC AQoIzuytejhDo+D6sZWXrizdbIejrJaBMPi7fjkwf9yqd25ylSuffFJ0+ya2diClmC4F V1SA== X-Gm-Message-State: AN3rC/5hg/+9UFhPqlJdSBS199C9MvcEHVjDb4nwIGXrGr8lkT+oDSnX PYjdUgu+wYV/xKP5nDFAi1q9iybXRQ== X-Received: by 10.55.16.32 with SMTP id a32mr2795810qkh.34.1492285399636; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:43:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.140.97.10 with HTTP; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:43:19 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Tom Herbert Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 12:43:19 -0700 Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 19:43:22 -0000 On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: > Hi Tom, > > If there growth will be about 5% for each year, then the full migration w= ill be accomplished after 17 years, during this period, internet hosts will= face the division problem and will not have full access to all resources, = which mean the internet will be worse. > > Using IPv10 during this 17 years can be the solution, if the growth of IP= v6 will grow rapidly, then IPv10 will disappear automatically after all hos= ts are using IPv6, and all Internet hosts will be automatically IPv6 hosts = instead of IPv10 hosts, no intervention will be required. > Again, you seem eager to completely disregard the realities of deploying a new protocol on the Internet. You said yourself that IPv10 requires changes to all hosts and routers. That is a _huge_ deal and such an undertaken would take _longer_ to deploy than just get IPv6 universally deployed. All hosts and routers support IPv6 at this point, continued adoption is a matter of enabling the protocol in networks. Khaled, you obviously have a lot energy and passion for the problem, but there's simply no logic and no data that supports an IPv10 protocol. I'd suggest you look more closely into current IPv6 deployment issues and see if there's problems there you might want to tackle. Tom > Best Regards, > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 5:58 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Cc: int-area@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. > > On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 7:57 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Khaled Omar [mailto:eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 3:09 PM >> To: int-area >> Cc: intarea-ads; intarea-chairs; ietf >> Subject: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. >> >> Hi all, >> >> Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 adoptio= n over the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said earli= er. >> > If you carefully at those graphs it's obvious that there has been exponen= tial growth of IPv6 over the past ten years and we're still on the exponent= ial part of the curve. The data does not support the idea that design, impl= ementation, and deployment of another IP version is needed to solve the pro= blem of IPv6 adoption. > > Tom > >> https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html >> >> Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is: >> 14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total >> >> Best regards, >> >> Khaled Omar >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Sat Apr 15 14:21:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCB3126B6D for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:21:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a4z28yWLd24t for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:20:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FD7312948B for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 14:20:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1492291257; x=1492896057; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: Mime-version:Content-type:Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=x9Egf1tnb1kKi+VbgdT+7LcfHwtzJgS8gz9btyTJZvs=; b=Gqyq2u10g2W3B s1rGoOcteDEzLr1R+9wQizHNmNGXPQqM585CYOrQLsQ13yX3sqEv174hbRzVaH8a /lCLwCmw6JPB1eDJmhprbmo12vo6YDJX/NU6s/ZpUIrbJs52WRpy7l4Cb+zM/pDD B8691hDSi0keJhRplea/X8uNy46Wak= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=UcutvCMUaCPq0jBt3HVgJHYQq+Jo8IHXaKfRX6lx27dboVE7vzZaxl5cLWLw YflVFUgI5gRMyCCdY4hJpkGQyUdFfX2QOC21S04h8uYXJuH62y96123Sz 9m5jqZJqI3yTYSMWoRfiOYcV2Sq89VbixyD3lSzWD7mOyVb4vIRTcw=; X-MDAV-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:20:57 +0200 X-Spam-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:20:56 +0200 Received: from [10.10.10.99] by mail.consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50005409066.msg for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:20:56 +0200 X-MDOP-RefID: re=0.000,fgs=0 (_st=1 _vt=0 _iwf=0) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:170415:md50005409066::Ty5qBI/3hSO+DwY8:00003pno X-Return-Path: prvs=12782475d1=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.21.0.170409 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 23:20:56 +0200 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <1DD1280A-CAF0-4555-87E3-730A609C9423@consulintel.es> Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2017 21:21:01 -0000 Stats are always a reference, but if you look only to a single data set, yo= u will have a broken view. Look at the data of the mobile operators in many countries, that only deliv= er IPv6 connectivity, such as US, India, few EU countries, now Japan, or ev= en wireline providers in every continent of the world, that have IPv6 penet= ration figures much higher than what Google average is showing. For those that work every day deploying IPv6 since many years ago, we have = seen a trend change, the light at the end of the tunnel, already a few year= s ago. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: s=C3=A1bado, 15 de abril de 2017, 19:52 Para: Christopher Morrow CC: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org"= Asunto: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. Hi Christopher, =20 > 'what was said earlier' - citation requested. =20 What I said means that since I wrote the IPv10 I-D on Google blogger, I= wrote that the deployment of IPv6 is about 5% of the Internet traffic, and= I got responses from some IETF members Just claiming that this is a wrong = percentage and the real exceeds 60% and gave me some examples of mobile providers=E2= =80=99 statistics. =20 So, this Google statistics confirms what I had said earlier because I g= ot this percent from some online statistics that belongs to the IP address = assignment process. =20 I would like to thank Google for the efforts made to make this measurem= ents and provide a respectful and real statistics that describes the recent= situation so we can make decisions based on it. =20 Best Regards, =20 Khaled Omar=20 =20 =20 From: christopher.morrow@gmail.com [mailto:christopher.morrow@gmail.com= ] On Behalf Of Christopher Morrow Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:16 PM To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area; intarea-ads; ietf; intarea-chairs Subject: Re: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. =20 =20 =20 On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: =20 Hi all, =20 Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 adopti= on over the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said earl= ier. =20 =20 =20 =20 'what was said earlier' - citation requested. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html =20 Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is: 14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(= s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any dis= closure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, = including attached files, is prohibited. 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header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XS9jhoDz4kUz for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 01:32:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 811DF127449 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 01:32:37 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1492331555; x=1492936355; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=Hx2F6ylKCt2/EM0HF68x4VGMx DskVTnNOF9muYXEwjo=; b=hv3+jLE68jiYXacQpfu0o5J3TrOJnf0JLhDQpSLYl +SXRk4XzPZRy9Eaat6eyMJCmLm4qR7QwlPjA5L1FWrOkXIN9M82CKAELCW2VVGUb 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Apr 2017 10:32:30 +0200 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: "ietf@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. References: <1DD1280A-CAF0-4555-87E3-730A609C9423@consulintel.es> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 08:32:39 -0000 And actually, in general, nobody complains that any hosts in IPv4 is not ab= le to access resources at IPv6 hosts. This is why we have the transition me= chanism, that are being deployed in parallel to the IPv6 deployment. Nobody is so crazy to just deploy IPv6 and do not provide those transition = mechanisms. If that happens, clearly is the fault of somebody that doesn=E2=80=99t know= how to do his job. This can happen exactly the same if your protocol becom= es approved and some folks don=E2=80=99t update their hosts or routers to c= omply with your protocol, right? Saludos, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: domingo, 16 de abril de 2017, 3:31 Para: "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" CC: "ietf@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org"= Asunto: RE: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. Hi Jordi, =20 Internet is a global network that covers the whole world (of course it = is known by all), a single host that resides in one region should access re= sources everywhere, it will be a shame when this one host can access only r= esources from the same IP version that he uses. =20 It is good that IPv6 is deployed on the most well-known websites (such = as Google, Facebook, etc.) but that doesn't mean that the Internet is only = websites, there are many other resources (services), eventually all must be= assigned an IP address. =20 The case is to allow IPv4 only hosts to communicate with IPv6 only host= s (for 6-to-6 and 4-to-4 is not the problem), so deploying a solution for t= hat division problem should be introduced ASAP or the Internet will have a = bad reputation due to the separation between hosts. =20 The IETF should take that responsibility over the shoulder, because thi= nk about those with IPv6 only address, they can access only 15% of the Inte= rnet, will they have to wait some other years to be able to access everythi= ng on the Internet, I don't think they should do that. =20 Anyway, I think the solution is on your hands now, the decision to publ= ish it is not my responsibility, but I'm sure a solution will be found for = this problem regardless it will be IPv10 or something else. =20 Best Regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 -----Original Message----- From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PALET MART= INEZ Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 11:21 PM To: intarea-ads@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; intarea-cha= irs@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. =20 Stats are always a reference, but if you look only to a single data set= , you will have a broken view. =20 Look at the data of the mobile operators in many countries, that only d= eliver IPv6 connectivity, such as US, India, few EU countries, now Japan, o= r even wireline providers in every continent of the world, that have IPv6 p= enetration figures much higher than what Google average is showing. =20 For those that work every day deploying IPv6 since many years ago, we h= ave seen a trend change, the light at the end of the tunnel, already a few = years ago. =20 Regards, Jordi =20 =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: s=C3=A1bado, 15 de abril de 2017, 19:52 Para: Christopher Morrow CC: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" = , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.= org" Asunto: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. =20 Hi Christopher, =20 > 'what was said earlier' - citation requested. =20 What I said means that since I wrote the IPv10 I-D on Google blogge= r, I wrote that the deployment of IPv6 is about 5% of the Internet traffic,= and I got responses from some IETF members Just claiming that this is a wr= ong percentage and the real exceeds 60% and gave me some examples of mobile providers= =E2=80=99 statistics. =20 So, this Google statistics confirms what I had said earlier because= I got this percent from some online statistics that belongs to the IP addr= ess assignment process. =20 I would like to thank Google for the efforts made to make this meas= urements and provide a respectful and real statistics that describes the re= cent situation so we can make decisions based on it. =20 Best Regards, =20 Khaled Omar=20 =20 =20 From: christopher.morrow@gmail.com [mailto:christopher.morrow@gmail= .com] On Behalf Of Christopher Morrow Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2017 7:16 PM To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area; intarea-ads; ietf; intarea-chairs Subject: Re: Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. =20 =20 =20 On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 9:09 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: =20 Hi all, =20 Please check out this link that shows the statistics of the IPv6 ad= option over the past 10 years maybe it will make you believe what was said = earlier. =20 =20 =20 =20 'what was said earlier' - citation requested. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 https://www.google.com/intl/en/ipv6/statistics.html =20 Recent IPv6 adoption (April, 2017) is: 14.83% Native - 0.03% 6to4 - 14.87% Total =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company =20 This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or= confidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individ= ual(s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any= disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this informati= on, including attached files, is prohibited. =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(= s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any dis= closure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, = including attached files, is prohibited. From nobody Sun Apr 16 05:06:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7E7E12741D; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 05:06:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=employees.org; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=otroan@employees.org header.d=employees.org Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LdDnflDm4lqT; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 05:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from esa01.kjsl.com (esa01.kjsl.com [IPv6:2607:7c80:54:3::87]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 32F3B124D6C; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 05:06:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cowbell.employees.org ([198.137.202.74]) by esa01.kjsl.com with ESMTP; 16 Apr 2017 12:06:35 +0000 Received: from cowbell.employees.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cowbell.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id D763BD788D; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 05:06:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=relaxed; d=employees.org; h=from :message-id:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to :cc:to:references; s=selector1; bh=ZJunYXOPlSDE27AO+s18JwO9KOo=; b= FhEECMFFR8GqL66wxZuOA58Oueyup4syLKZw/HAaxJJ53Xt5sussoEapoIfsi1qm aLTdvx14P6h/UIfeOV8aMgeRgByhLH+NRb9+Yww877N78GcuynibbDKfiWN2f0dl uoX6ywMBsrRXxAg9KlTeavOxjTLjpiosOuHh3c+kb4U= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=employees.org; h=from :message-id:content-type:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to :cc:to:references; q=dns; s=selector1; b=ZmpN3sXojJXmJM1CVckrf5C IoJHXqk5jR9owwvFrkVUA19vwwWP58EcwfC+CMaNyxP8lCDVbROB4eAGmr5szC/z V6GMW5fyKNeTVrzwCl/T/ZNsq8jv/01j2IVpI6xvUfJJGrvYQ29pOqLGSwTxPliY bJKxuQazwIOwSb7JIFko= Received: from h.hanazo.no (77.16.75.18.tmi.telenormobil.no [77.16.75.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: otroan) by cowbell.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 65EAAD788B; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 05:06:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by h.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2584AA9DBB5D; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 14:06:30 +0200 (CEST) From: otroan@employees.org Message-Id: <8A03EE98-1C94-4A82-A0E3-B1A144B6B1AB@employees.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_22D5E9C8-A319-45BD-9EDF-24D27908AFE2"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 14:06:29 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: "ietf@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es References: <1DD1280A-CAF0-4555-87E3-730A609C9423@consulintel.es> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 12:06:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_22D5E9C8-A319-45BD-9EDF-24D27908AFE2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Jordi, > And actually, in general, nobody complains that any hosts in IPv4 is = not able to access resources at IPv6 hosts. This is why we have the = transition mechanism, that are being deployed in parallel to the IPv6 = deployment. This is not true. The plan was for a short period where hosts were dual stack and then as = soon as IPv6 was everywhere, turn IPv4 off. That's not where we are. I would expect the number of IPv6 only = networks and services to grow. Possibly without IPv4 support at all, or = where the cost and responsibility of legacy support will be pushed out = towards the IPv4 only users. > Nobody is so crazy to just deploy IPv6 and do not provide those = transition mechanisms. >=20 > If that happens, clearly is the fault of somebody that doesn=E2=80=99t = know how to do his job. This can happen exactly the same if your = protocol becomes approved and some folks don=E2=80=99t update their = hosts or routers to comply with your protocol, right? The transition has turned out to be a real pain. I understand the problem Khaled set out to solve. Unfortunately his solution is not practical nor deployable. And we have in fact tried many of the same flavours of solution before. Given Khaled's apparent non-interest in two-way communication I wouldn't = imagine any number of emails would help in that regard. Best regards, Ole --Apple-Mail=_22D5E9C8-A319-45BD-9EDF-24D27908AFE2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJY815FAAoJEL7aWKiYQt92sJwP/AltEf3MK+gK9QqVtNj4Fk9M 3jR3eJUegO/8CdfwhWF0XD7rZ7OL/xYN4ZOc9n39xmcRTbxyhOzmKkkmd068deHC JNpl+pBg5iJQJyENYiG15htoxjhOHhNmbOhCEZFitu5H6Xnp8NP/Haph90QMZZPL GsbAMp+jynAuTdUqWI7w/KKWM5RUPBue2PRdgjXNamOitVwhYeMlYX3Jnv1WixFw 42te9knUmgANDOZdsJVglhmqIrN5isZq+l3WydZggwooMzv/hPU46ea+f+PfDALZ 2VUZH3vXa+BsPuKPWi+v1VS+oUESPl40Mi3WDyFIZoTL7SwIrexiae224MXznoX4 pt1U6bfnRJOLOBqSXC/LlV96XzGDX8DTx/VUCym4VFEU8gNLdoYjsRdO0S3eRBZV DcHM4F9a1eOnDSfgjIH0QhRsQLyRqViHQYRsZb+QSLlP/z8+P9tqEPV31zNf+6az pBGTJDYHPZ1Mp+nLhhhNvkK+C84CSDmnlM82Ro6UvLKeSoIBXk2im6SUXN3IFWcj pRl9E3Ko6j9PeKojWwkh1hEaO5TC22AXu+6PjoOU+uWXd4UGwEQQNWm3oeVI6NtZ 9Wtr39ajASOeiuMEQF5rvU6loE7Qcps9IVGV7h8N1ZICeJpNjLQsUbijLsgT/BDu UnMQywGXq0bp1xzuMWyY =5Fiq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_22D5E9C8-A319-45BD-9EDF-24D27908AFE2-- From nobody Sun Apr 16 06:05:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC85512706D for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 06:05:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1m92Lm1tFZMa for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 06:05:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 639C9128B90 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 06:05:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1492347942; x=1492952742; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=FPl0qJOBq8mYX9JJvBStMiCap cLQAlY0NfTG63rc1YQ=; b=POmyH1WKjkjFNJlr3vGZ7r6xNP/RyGr2bPVSRu33C BSN6HVZKP/Y4NjoAU6h6HWDF34xgEGg/ozF/5GaVuPj5PPYUMNr15GH7Lwwh4HEY L3eDM1Xp5JuQga0HXH47IDaWMPwEEwH7z6t7qUs7UwtMRuFTx2n4XwpdXsE+c4NT 7E= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=YogCNipNELfijeKgYdusK9emWhEtnTGFD1YjvB+rUHaRkW7c5WN/8euUudCc p7R7XkTheppHsOw9wtJPnbubom51aKvfE1wVR6SvrTGPYNbe0RrFHdsi+ SYsNxM5P1VrZ9hJ3oxQLBYrDZPjjXnM/8E0N+2i7MAnDs26rrataFg=; X-MDAV-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:05:42 +0200 X-Spam-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:05:41 +0200 Received: from [100.127.23.20] by mail.consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50005409216.msg for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:05:40 +0200 X-MDOP-RefID: re=0.000,fgs=0 (_st=1 _vt=0 _iwf=0) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:170416:md50005409216::KLsY6kkZhOa+/ylc:00009X+j X-Return-Path: prvs=12793c0608=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.21.0.170409 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:05:35 +0200 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. References: <1DD1280A-CAF0-4555-87E3-730A609C9423@consulintel.es> <8A03EE98-1C94-4A82-A0E3-B1A144B6B1AB@employees.org> In-Reply-To: <8A03EE98-1C94-4A82-A0E3-B1A144B6B1AB@employees.org> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 13:05:47 -0000 I agree that that was the plan (and it is in the medium term), but my respo= nse is to Khaled specific point that seems to say (I understood that at lea= st) that only 15% can access (now) to IPv6-only. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: ietf en nombre de Responder a: Fecha: domingo, 16 de abril de 2017, 14:06 Para: CC: "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org"= Asunto: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. Jordi, =20 > And actually, in general, nobody complains that any hosts in IPv4 is = not able to access resources at IPv6 hosts. This is why we have the transit= ion mechanism, that are being deployed in parallel to the IPv6 deployment. =20 This is not true. The plan was for a short period where hosts were dual stack and then as= soon as IPv6 was everywhere, turn IPv4 off. That's not where we are. I would expect the number of IPv6 only networ= ks and services to grow. Possibly without IPv4 support at all, or where the= cost and responsibility of legacy support will be pushed out towards the I= Pv4 only users. =20 > Nobody is so crazy to just deploy IPv6 and do not provide those trans= ition mechanisms. >=20 > If that happens, clearly is the fault of somebody that doesn=E2=80=99= t know how to do his job. This can happen exactly the same if your protocol= becomes approved and some folks don=E2=80=99t update their hosts or router= s to comply with your protocol, right? =20 The transition has turned out to be a real pain. I understand the problem Khaled set out to solve. Unfortunately his solution is not practical nor deployable. And we have in fact tried many of the same flavours of solution before. Given Khaled's apparent non-interest in two-way communication I wouldn'= t imagine any number of emails would help in that regard. =20 Best regards, Ole =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the use of the individual(= s) named above. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any dis= closure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, = including attached files, is prohibited. 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Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:18:47 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::167:4fb:cc08:25a5%19]) with mapi id 15.01.1034.013; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:18:47 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: "jordi.palet@consulintel.es" CC: "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. Thread-Index: AQHSti47/uaUGNjULEOCU6EGG8PHPKHHMY2wgAB6DwCAADvJgIAAEIOAgAAktTA= Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:18:47 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1DD1280A-CAF0-4555-87E3-730A609C9423@consulintel.es> <8A03EE98-1C94-4A82-A0E3-B1A144B6B1AB@employees.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: consulintel.es; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; consulintel.es; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:A6DC2D4A35583EDE2E5B780957AA95CA3D5FC086D7ECE2A441A28757BD0DE4F7; UpperCasedChecksum:D94CC8A85E3DB673A3C52173936D59EBC4684CFCB14FA12FEADB48545524D06A; SizeAsReceived:8505; Count:42 x-tmn: [vInLFG8m7lv8SY1vCIxbUsoniQENxcFL] x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1EUR01HT037; 5:7tWWDLhVobn4aqm2+zJhkiJv++rNFsJ84G19o15bYJ4UtTsQunB2g8e/D9GZ7W1yqlTgPAT3+HVoZ3j+y876w7bPzccXCwhg1QCGT1+XjkB8Mxt9whKCBqLv1Bg82uSsHyhrXGjXhldqdPnFC0iQLg==; 24:S97heX5Xb5+QrrgBwJCT0wk5sLqjg1oPUpkv6DalduDJcFPgOwA+yND0ztMKch3MqkNMBVXHVINwEW0aCXDXMd7NLfha3WUyWtz1fDwqmJE=; 7:apz+4vAHyX8l/UQEQ5xtAQUUPSq4U0Ni93xI6ylRLvXApeHPPWqAcFHuIGZmc+N2GxQ4s5WEvbqflKTUDHIKbhfrq++gVXNXRq5YyMPiNOg9zbzHy3vMjdNBD8FtUoCOSDE9VERzckGxOSyd7owg8ZlC8xhTS3YAU5j3NsJSRGPPgD5oQpQD/5At5QKPrnzv7syJRzutIRUeB0US/2MgYhatkpp1ukvNNgVPO8jyFi9HdefC15Aj/a1rFyFx4s+YjsIoxjWJLfpK5uA87P5BfJmZhB9/bkb6Y710qpCNPp4IYr0Msm9x4SGr8RELF3Ik x-incomingheadercount: 42 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-forefront-antispam-report: EFV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1EUR01HT037; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 6ef7e3cc-b9d6-4f9c-2e28-08d484dbe12f x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322274)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045); SRVR:HE1EUR01HT037; x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(444000031); SRVR:HE1EUR01HT037; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:; SRVR:HE1EUR01HT037; x-forefront-prvs: 0279B3DD0D spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 16 Apr 2017 15:18:47.6332 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR01HT037 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 15:18:52 -0000 Sm9yZGksDQoNCj4gSSBhZ3JlZSB0aGF0IHRoYXQgd2FzIHRoZSBwbGFuIChhbmQgaXQgaXMgaW4g dGhlIG1lZGl1bSB0ZXJtKSwgYnV0IG15IHJlc3BvbnNlIGlzIHRvIEtoYWxlZCBzcGVjaWZpYyBw b2ludCB0aGF0IHNlZW1zIHRvIHNheSAoSSB1bmRlcnN0b29kIHRoYXQgYXQgbGVhc3QpIHRoYXQg b25seSAxNSUgY2FuIGFjY2VzcyAobm93KSB0byBJUHY2LW9ubHkuDQoNClRoaW5rIGFib3V0IHdo ZW4gdGhlIHBlcmNlbnRhZ2Ugd2lsbCBiZSA1MCUsIGl0IHdpbGwgYmUgYSByZWFsIGRpdmlzaW9u IGZvciB0aGUgaW50ZXJuZXQgZm9yIGJvdGggSVB2NCBvbmx5IGFuZCBJUHY2IG9ubHkgaG9zdHMu DQoNCkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNCg0KS2hhbGVkIE9tYXINCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdl LS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGlldGYgW21haWx0bzppZXRmLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIE9uIEJlaGFs ZiBPZiBKT1JESSBQQUxFVCBNQVJUSU5FWg0KU2VudDogU3VuZGF5LCBBcHJpbCAxNiwgMjAxNyAz OjA2IFBNDQpUbzogaW50YXJlYS1hZHNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGludC1hcmVhQGlldGYub3JnOyBpZXRm QGlldGYub3JnOyBpbnRhcmVhLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtJbnQtYXJl YV0gR29vZ2xlIFN0YXRpc3RpY3MgZm9yIElQdjYgYWRvcHRpb24uDQoNCkkgYWdyZWUgdGhhdCB0 aGF0IHdhcyB0aGUgcGxhbiAoYW5kIGl0IGlzIGluIHRoZSBtZWRpdW0gdGVybSksIGJ1dCBteSBy ZXNwb25zZSBpcyB0byBLaGFsZWQgc3BlY2lmaWMgcG9pbnQgdGhhdCBzZWVtcyB0byBzYXkgKEkg dW5kZXJzdG9vZCB0aGF0IGF0IGxlYXN0KSB0aGF0IG9ubHkgMTUlIGNhbiBhY2Nlc3MgKG5vdykg dG8gSVB2Ni1vbmx5Lg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KSm9yZGkNCiANCg0KLS0tLS1NZW5zYWplIG9yaWdp bmFsLS0tLS0NCkRlOiBpZXRmIDxpZXRmLWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+IGVuIG5vbWJyZSBkZSA8 b3Ryb2FuQGVtcGxveWVlcy5vcmc+IFJlc3BvbmRlciBhOiA8b3Ryb2FuQGVtcGxveWVlcy5vcmc+ DQpGZWNoYTogZG9taW5nbywgMTYgZGUgYWJyaWwgZGUgMjAxNywgMTQ6MDYNClBhcmE6IDxqb3Jk aS5wYWxldEBjb25zdWxpbnRlbC5lcz4NCkNDOiAiaW50YXJlYS1hZHNAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxpbnRh cmVhLWFkc0BpZXRmLm9yZz4sICJpbnQtYXJlYUBpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGludC1hcmVhQGlldGYub3Jn PiwgImlldGZAaWV0Zi5vcmciIDxpZXRmQGlldGYub3JnPiwgImludGFyZWEtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYu b3JnIiA8aW50YXJlYS1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc+DQpBc3VudG86IFJlOiBbSW50LWFyZWFdIEdv b2dsZSBTdGF0aXN0aWNzIGZvciBJUHY2IGFkb3B0aW9uLg0KDQogICAgSm9yZGksDQogICAgDQog ICAgPiBBbmQgYWN0dWFsbHksIGluIGdlbmVyYWwsIG5vYm9keSBjb21wbGFpbnMgdGhhdCBhbnkg aG9zdHMgaW4gSVB2NCBpcyBub3QgYWJsZSB0byBhY2Nlc3MgcmVzb3VyY2VzIGF0IElQdjYgaG9z dHMuIFRoaXMgaXMgd2h5IHdlIGhhdmUgdGhlIHRyYW5zaXRpb24gbWVjaGFuaXNtLCB0aGF0IGFy ZSBiZWluZyBkZXBsb3llZCBpbiBwYXJhbGxlbCB0byB0aGUgSVB2NiBkZXBsb3ltZW50Lg0KICAg IA0KICAgIFRoaXMgaXMgbm90IHRydWUuDQogICAgVGhlIHBsYW4gd2FzIGZvciBhIHNob3J0IHBl cmlvZCB3aGVyZSBob3N0cyB3ZXJlIGR1YWwgc3RhY2sgYW5kIHRoZW4gYXMgc29vbiBhcyBJUHY2 IHdhcyBldmVyeXdoZXJlLCB0dXJuIElQdjQgb2ZmLg0KICAgIFRoYXQncyBub3Qgd2hlcmUgd2Ug YXJlLiBJIHdvdWxkIGV4cGVjdCB0aGUgbnVtYmVyIG9mICBJUHY2IG9ubHkgbmV0d29ya3MgYW5k IHNlcnZpY2VzIHRvIGdyb3cuIFBvc3NpYmx5IHdpdGhvdXQgSVB2NCBzdXBwb3J0IGF0IGFsbCwg b3Igd2hlcmUgdGhlIGNvc3QgYW5kIHJlc3BvbnNpYmlsaXR5IG9mIGxlZ2FjeSBzdXBwb3J0IHdp bGwgYmUgcHVzaGVkIG91dCB0b3dhcmRzIHRoZSBJUHY0IG9ubHkgdXNlcnMuDQogICAgDQogICAg PiBOb2JvZHkgaXMgc28gY3JhenkgdG8ganVzdCBkZXBsb3kgSVB2NiBhbmQgZG8gbm90IHByb3Zp ZGUgdGhvc2UgdHJhbnNpdGlvbiBtZWNoYW5pc21zLg0KICAgID4gDQogICAgPiBJZiB0aGF0IGhh cHBlbnMsIGNsZWFybHkgaXMgdGhlIGZhdWx0IG9mIHNvbWVib2R5IHRoYXQgZG9lc27igJl0IGtu b3cgaG93IHRvIGRvIGhpcyBqb2IuIFRoaXMgY2FuIGhhcHBlbiBleGFjdGx5IHRoZSBzYW1lIGlm IHlvdXIgcHJvdG9jb2wgYmVjb21lcyBhcHByb3ZlZCBhbmQgc29tZSBmb2xrcyBkb27igJl0IHVw ZGF0ZSB0aGVpciBob3N0cyBvciByb3V0ZXJzIHRvIGNvbXBseSB3aXRoIHlvdXIgcHJvdG9jb2ws IHJpZ2h0Pw0KICAgIA0KICAgIFRoZSB0cmFuc2l0aW9uIGhhcyB0dXJuZWQgb3V0IHRvIGJlIGEg cmVhbCBwYWluLg0KICAgIEkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGUgcHJvYmxlbSBLaGFsZWQgc2V0IG91dCB0 byBzb2x2ZS4NCiAgICBVbmZvcnR1bmF0ZWx5IGhpcyBzb2x1dGlvbiBpcyBub3QgcHJhY3RpY2Fs IG5vciBkZXBsb3lhYmxlLg0KICAgIEFuZCB3ZSBoYXZlIGluIGZhY3QgdHJpZWQgbWFueSBvZiB0 aGUgc2FtZSBmbGF2b3VycyBvZiBzb2x1dGlvbiBiZWZvcmUuDQogICAgR2l2ZW4gS2hhbGVkJ3Mg YXBwYXJlbnQgbm9uLWludGVyZXN0IGluIHR3by13YXkgY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbiBJIHdvdWxkbid0 IGltYWdpbmUgYW55IG51bWJlciBvZiBlbWFpbHMgd291bGQgaGVscCBpbiB0aGF0IHJlZ2FyZC4N CiAgICANCiAgICBCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQogICAgT2xlDQogICAgDQoNCg0KDQoqKioqKioqKioq KioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqDQpJUHY0IGlzIG92ZXINCkFyZSB5 b3UgcmVhZHkgZm9yIHRoZSBuZXcgSW50ZXJuZXQgPw0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5jb25zdWxpbnRlbC5l cw0KVGhlIElQdjYgQ29tcGFueQ0KDQpUaGlzIGVsZWN0cm9uaWMgbWVzc2FnZSBjb250YWlucyBp bmZvcm1hdGlvbiB3aGljaCBtYXkgYmUgcHJpdmlsZWdlZCBvciBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwuIFRoZSBp bmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpcyBpbnRlbmRlZCB0byBiZSBmb3IgdGhlIHVzZSBvZiB0aGUgaW5kaXZpZHVh bChzKSBuYW1lZCBhYm92ZS4gSWYgeW91IGFyZSBub3QgdGhlIGludGVuZGVkIHJlY2lwaWVudCBi ZSBhd2FyZSB0aGF0IGFueSBkaXNjbG9zdXJlLCBjb3B5aW5nLCBkaXN0cmlidXRpb24gb3IgdXNl IG9mIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyBvZiB0aGlzIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uLCBpbmNsdWRpbmcgYXR0YWNoZWQg ZmlsZXMsIGlzIHByb2hpYml0ZWQuDQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Sun Apr 16 10:02:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 53ACB127775; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:02:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tznRhHyQNMcl; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:02:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from execdsl.com (remote.shinkuro.com [50.56.68.178]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB05D127735; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:02:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dummy.name; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:02:27 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2C966588-8643-4E8B-80E3-A977A81DCD37" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 9.3 \(3124\)) From: Steve Crocker In-Reply-To: Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 13:02:25 -0400 Cc: "Stephen D. Crocker" , "otroan@employees.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Message-Id: <120F5DC0-AB17-448F-83E3-E633CBF7B1C3@shinkuro.com> References: <1DD1280A-CAF0-4555-87E3-730A609C9423@consulintel.es> <8A03EE98-1C94-4A82-A0E3-B1A144B6B1AB@employees.org> To: Khaled Omar X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:02:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2C966588-8643-4E8B-80E3-A977A81DCD37 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 There was a flag day for the transition from NCP to TCP/IP. There will = never be another flag day. Any transition solution, whether from IPv4 = to IPv6 or a successor protocol elsewhere on the stack, has to be = designed to permit overlap and interoperability during the very long = period when both the old and new protocols will be operating. Further, there will have to be two incentives at work for the transition = to succeed. One is in favor of the the new protocol. The other is = against the old protocol. If the former is missing, the new protocol = won=E2=80=99t be adopted. If the latter is missing, the old protocol = will persist indefinitely. To repeat: there will never be another flag day. If this is one of your = assumptions, step back and think about the problem again. Steve > On Apr 16, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Khaled Omar = wrote: >=20 > That's right, and there should be a place like the IETF that should = organize this process until all technology companies prepare the updates = and there should be a flag day for the deployment, > If a host still not updated, will not gain access to the Internet = until updating the OS. --Apple-Mail=_2C966588-8643-4E8B-80E3-A977A81DCD37 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 There was a flag day for the transition from NCP to TCP/IP. =  There will never be another flag day.  Any transition = solution, whether from IPv4 to IPv6 or a successor protocol elsewhere on = the stack, has to be designed to permit overlap and interoperability = during the very long period when both the old and new protocols will be = operating.

Further, = there will have to be two incentives at work for the transition to = succeed.  One is in favor of the the new protocol.  The other = is against the old protocol.  If the former is missing, the new = protocol won=E2=80=99t be adopted.  If the latter is missing, the = old protocol will persist indefinitely.

To repeat: there will never be another = flag day.  If this is one of your assumptions, step back and think = about the problem again.

Steve


On Apr 16, 2017, at 11:15 AM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

That's right, and there should be a place like = the IETF that should organize this process until all technology = companies prepare the updates and there should be a flag day for the = deployment,
If a host still not updated, will not gain = access to the Internet until updating the OS.

= --Apple-Mail=_2C966588-8643-4E8B-80E3-A977A81DCD37-- From nobody Sun Apr 16 10:26:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94573126C22; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.392 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.392 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=fail (1024-bit key) reason="fail (message has been altered)" header.d=dcrocker.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id l9g4lgbYYXOr; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from simon.songbird.com (simon.songbird.com [72.52.113.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 13228120724; Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:25:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.168] (76-218-8-128.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net [76.218.8.128]) (authenticated bits=0) by simon.songbird.com (8.14.4/8.14.4/Debian-4.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id v3GHSBmD021491 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:28:12 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dcrocker.net; s=default; t=1492363692; bh=svqI3EyS3sBqMW2wFzyYFJIG9iYVNzvDWFpwyXy4cbc=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:Reply-To:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=aYvLiyLS5Ey2MDL3bhYPCqvmo5A8t1BavpFv/USD3CZ6lX/j9IB+/PmuAdj6M9Zag DYvjX+uyQzygRlmcDB4Umb1o7quMrSan/LS/CaBAQNS0nT+TwRQWTF5TNLfutgN06H m2R89xhgzgEsFOl339wH4+l3vG45ck89V/VSO7qQ= To: Steve Crocker , Khaled Omar Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" References: <1DD1280A-CAF0-4555-87E3-730A609C9423@consulintel.es> <8A03EE98-1C94-4A82-A0E3-B1A144B6B1AB@employees.org> <120F5DC0-AB17-448F-83E3-E633CBF7B1C3@shinkuro.com> Reply-To: dcrocker@bbiw.net From: Dave Crocker Organization: Brandenburg InternetWorking Message-ID: Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 10:25:49 -0700 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <120F5DC0-AB17-448F-83E3-E633CBF7B1C3@shinkuro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2017 17:25:59 -0000 On 4/16/2017 10:02 AM, Steve Crocker wrote: > Any transition solution, whether from IPv4 to IPv6 or a successor > protocol elsewhere on the stack, has to be designed to permit overlap > and interoperability during the very long period when both the old and > new protocols will be operating. Given the amount of time any Internet-scale transition must/will take, the term 'transition' is tending to be problematic, because it encourages of tone of temporariness. When the scale is one or more decades -- as we seem to be seeing regularly -- the better model is long-term dual-stack with interoperability support (gateways and tunnels.) > Further, there will have to be two incentives at work for the transition > to succeed. +1, but the challenge is figuring out who to incentivize and making sure the incentives are powerful and real (and usually immediate.) We all have a tendency to imagine incentives that are convenient to our goals, whereas those doing the uptake often prove remarkably uncooperative to our view... d/ -- Dave Crocker Brandenburg InternetWorking bbiw.net From nobody Wed Apr 19 03:13:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D2D36120454 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 03:13:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.081 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OINmISZsCM6B for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 03:13:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7B851286B1 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 03:13:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v3JADnIX025202 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:13:49 +0100 Received: from 950129200 (251.129.113.87.dyn.plus.net [87.113.129.251]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v3JADmX2025156 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:13:49 +0100 Reply-To: From: "Adrian Farrel" To: Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:13:45 +0100 Message-ID: <03e001d2b8f5$a17e6840$e47b38c0$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AdK49TUKvCEYUNDWTX6OgXuGPvWo5w== Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1679-8.1.0.1062-23016.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--3.460-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--3.460-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: vyKRAY7HOrIyLaonsERWTpV0Vx03XunfGbJMFqqIm9wNcckEPxfz2Ahe 6NI+f4LlL0THpg/duvO+cxMBxtB5NrgSigd+50bafFMOK/HqfAZBXoFkn1Z4VrMpZn8Wx17x5se P+3nPvM3j0rj7aZ13xIZ33gc99frfbBkLGPxXO7v/QotNualNMQBzfxM7vRJxmyiLZetSf8nJ4y 0wP1A6AGP1xUvrlhy1DV8DVAd6AO/dB/CxWTRRuwihQpoXbuXFOvs1qa3iu1L5OZE9+/KwYr8eI EmokRegvO8DPUKidQ2pr+Zyas07hWqSBU9suBmmv1pStiXts5oysKibcSKe325pemREzNPqkc8v ZYcPwmShurVaY1hyX4xdVwkeE3a3UyOqrFz2uoieqD9WtJkSIw== Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Apologies/fumble while hiding from IPv10 [Was: WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping)] X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 10:13:56 -0000 Hi, Sorry, I zoned out (aka unsubscribed) to avoid the fascinating discussions on IPv10 with their varied subject lines. Wassim wrote: > We would like to start a WG adoption call for draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04 > ("Extended Ping (Xping)"): > > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04.txt > > Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is April 28th. I think this is a no-brainer! That we have got this far without a proper ping tool for unnumbered interfaces seems remarkable. That we should go on without a proper ping tool for link-local addressed interfaces seems unwise. I support adoption of (and rapid completion of) this document. Adrian From nobody Wed Apr 19 04:45:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E15CB1294DA for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 04:45:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B-4iEFIvO9be for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 04:45:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-1.cisco.com (alln-iport-1.cisco.com [173.37.142.88]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2A4CF1294C7 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 04:45:44 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1163; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1492602344; x=1493811944; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=La5F8WaJMN5srRRPZnqDR0KRcBx3wOqHTNXOycUVLCE=; b=XS80VlVwQ41IPaTG1lOqmduQlzI7Vgf7UKGlDk6sB2kBF/EqyZ2TkdPp k7TM/cV7Hz1zTo0NTJTMQEIu2nzEisHtz4M7UzV6bZZOUOuhWOGCWHQRN +0mqMvo2HNkZs94rj+tAjwNNLWOXUjGElJf9RqxPGLLp3rillZmBFukPR g=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DQAAD3TPdY/4wNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1RhgQsHjXWRY5Vigg8hC4V4AoN8PxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIUVAQE?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQIBAQEbHRQgEAcEAgEIEQQBAR8FBAcnCxQJCAEBBAESCBUEiXAIDqxhiy0BA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEYBYZThHaKPAWdLQGHBItgggmFMYoalA8BHzg?= =?us-ascii?q?+R2MVRIUbgUp1AYgHgQ0BAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.37,221,1488844800"; d="scan'208";a="411551694" Received: from alln-core-7.cisco.com ([173.36.13.140]) by alln-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 19 Apr 2017 11:45:43 +0000 Received: from XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (xch-rcd-004.cisco.com [173.37.102.14]) by alln-core-7.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3JBjhxT005782 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:45:43 GMT Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com (173.37.102.11) by XCH-RCD-004.cisco.com (173.37.102.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 06:45:42 -0500 Received: from xch-rcd-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) by XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com ([173.37.102.11]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 06:45:42 -0500 From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" To: "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Apologies/fumble while hiding from IPv10 [Was: WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping)] Thread-Index: AdK49TUKvCEYUNDWTX6OgXuGPvWo5wADQHMw Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:45:13 +0000 Deferred-Delivery: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:45:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3dce1822d7f848c5bdfe92088b121478@XCH-RCD-001.cisco.com> References: <03e001d2b8f5$a17e6840$e47b38c0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: <03e001d2b8f5$a17e6840$e47b38c0$@olddog.co.uk> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.228.216.30] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Apologies/fumble while hiding from IPv10 [Was: WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping)] X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 11:45:46 -0000 +1 -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Adrian Farre= l Sent: mercredi 19 avril 2017 12:14 To: int-area@ietf.org Subject: [Int-area] Apologies/fumble while hiding from IPv10 [Was: WG Adopt= ion Call: Extended Ping (Xping)] Hi, Sorry, I zoned out (aka unsubscribed) to avoid the fascinating discussions = on IPv10 with their varied subject lines. Wassim wrote: > We would like to start a WG adoption call for=20 > draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04 ("Extended Ping (Xping)"): > > https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-bonica-intarea-eping-04.txt > > Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is=20 > April 28th. I think this is a no-brainer! That we have got this far without a proper ping tool for unnumbered interfa= ces seems remarkable. That we should go on without a proper ping tool for link-local addressed in= terfaces seems unwise. I support adoption of (and rapid completion of) this document. Adrian _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Wed Apr 19 05:14:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 078E912950A; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 05:14:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.618 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.618 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x2uMIvbb3LYs; Wed, 19 Apr 2017 05:14:54 -0700 (PDT) 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(Xping) Thread-Index: AQHStIHsK4fK38mSHka/70iu2j+sDKHMncCQ Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 12:14:51 +0000 Message-ID: <787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5073F@OPEXCLILMA3.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5073FOPEXCLILMA3corp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2017 12:14:56 -0000 --_000_787AE7BB302AE849A7480A190F8B933009E5073FOPEXCLILMA3corp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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7bit From: "\"IETF Meeting Session Request Tool\"" To: Cc: suresh.krishnan@gmail.com, Wassim.Haddad@ericsson.com, int-area@ietf.org, intarea-chairs@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149279411209.22330.17017038422589914561.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 10:01:52 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] intarea - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 99 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 17:01:52 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Wassim Haddad, a Chair of the intarea working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Internet Area Working Group Area Name: Internet Area Session Requester: Wassim Haddad Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: lpwan 6tisch 6man homenet v6ops irtfopen 6lo dhc saag lisp nvo3 t2trg Second Priority: softwire sunset4 tsvwg dnsop netconf nfvrg People who must be present: Wassim Haddad Suresh Krishnan Juan Carlos Zuniga Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Apr 21 13:31:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9ECE128768; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:31:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.902 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.902 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FG2U8aVOZ5ni; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de (mail1.net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de [IPv6:2001:638:809:ff11:130:149:220:242]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B0B3127B57; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:31:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.inet.tu-berlin.de (firewall.seclab.cs.ucsb.edu [128.111.48.252]) by mail.net.t-labs.tu-berlin.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4568873; Fri, 21 Apr 2017 22:31:18 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 13:31:15 -0700 From: Tobias Fiebig To: Jared Mauch Cc: Khaled Omar , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-ads@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Message-ID: <20170421203114.GA19501@mail.inet.tu-berlin.de> References: <40315FF7-DD5D-4A3D-BCA5-C6D4C17CE8A9@puck.nether.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In-Reply-To: <40315FF7-DD5D-4A3D-BCA5-C6D4C17CE8A9@puck.nether.net> User-Agent: Mutt/1.8.0 (2017-02-23) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Google Statistics for IPv6 adoption. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2017 20:31:25 -0000 Heho, On Sat, Apr 15, 2017 at 02:47:20PM -0400, Jared Mauch wrote: > ... > > Using one datapoint, an ad network (google) is helpful to > understand what browser users might look like but a set top box > without a browser may move significantly more bits and not be > apparent at all in the IPv6 stats at google. I would like to chim in on that point. Actually google has a strong bias for IPv6 adoption in devices speaking to google. While natural, this really skews the numbers: The BigN (Google (YouTube), Facebook, Akamai, Cloudflare, Netflix etc.) account for a major part of overall traffic, especially in access networks. Incidentily, most of these orgs have deployed v6 on the server side. Hence, as soon as an access network rolls out v6, the traffic share of v6 skyrockets, as a major portion of the remotes causing most traffic well... support v6. However, this observation does not hold for the heavy tail of the Internet. Actually, I am currently investigating other datasources, that are not biased towards end-users and "BigN" content providers; There, v6 adoption for the heavy tail actually ranges more in the field of 1%... With best Regards, Tobias Fiebig -- Tobias Fiebig building MAR, 4th floor, room 4.003 Fachgebiet INET - Sekr. MAR 4-4 phone: +49 162 243 205 2 Technische Universität Berlin gpg-fp: 21A9 91EB 4971 ED48 001E Marchstrasse 23 - 10587 Berlin FBBC B6AF 3CD8 59A2 795B From nobody Sat Apr 22 18:24:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3F1128708; Sat, 22 Apr 2017 18:24:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from 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XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Sat, 22 Apr 2017 21:24:23 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: Wassim Haddad CC: "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) Thread-Index: AQHStIHtoQd/vjXhG0GYT7vEH3pJ3qHSerYA Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 01:24:23 +0000 Message-ID: <1DEBF891-EA30-4989-8C24-139F6FEDA7AC@cisco.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.212.155] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1DEBF891EA3049898C24139F6FEDA7ACciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (xch-rtp-013.cisco.com [64.101.220.153]) by alln-core-5.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3QGZePZ011192 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 26 Apr 2017 16:35:40 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-013.cisco.com (64.101.220.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:35:39 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Wed, 26 Apr 2017 12:35:39 -0400 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" , "Wassim Haddad" , "int-area@ietf.org" CC: "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) Thread-Index: AQHStIHsK4fK38mSHka/70iu2j+sDKHMncCQgAu0FgA= Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 16:35:39 +0000 Message-ID: <9DD6CAA8-6F35-45E3-AB99-E8A074630716@cisco.com> References: 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To: Cc: int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.50.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <149325388839.2971.9034527763058133077@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2017 17:44:48 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-gue-02.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 00:44:48 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group of the IETF. Title : Generic UDP Encapsulation Authors : Tom Herbert Lucy Yong Osama Zia Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-gue-02.txt Pages : 38 Date : 2017-04-26 Abstract: This specification describes Generic UDP Encapsulation (GUE), which is a scheme for using UDP to encapsulate packets of different IP protocols for transport across layer 3 networks. By encapsulating packets in UDP, specialized capabilities in networking hardware for efficient handling of UDP packets can be leveraged. GUE specifies basic encapsulation methods upon which higher level constructs, such as tunnels and overlay networks for network virtualization, can be constructed. GUE is extensible by allowing optional data fields as part of the encapsulation, and is generic in that it can encapsulate packets of various IP protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-gue/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-gue-02 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-gue-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-gue-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Apr 27 11:56:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A9B91294D2 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 11:55:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K0ylTBQ5Aslu for ; 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Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:52:40 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) Thread-Index: AdK/h3CkXDSskNoHQm6/xuytoLuCZw== Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:52:39 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=juniper.net; x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.13] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; SN1PR0501MB2064; 7:xotnbQpB2IfwR5LLuYNw/vmuEWOi2gFEE1lh6ZYx08o4jYI9kVsHxD/6wHI2AVCYI5WENh6Syega2SkE0rrhP4dOo9E6oOg0SjC0pQkHk8kk2sHoem4D8LtCxIptlnZrpifdKPKqIsEgU9XRScDuEnqs3eLDes3LIVbiw29DXg2G2xZiBei/2dKhKd6SXWindGiLJ2AYCwU8FrgtsZTg1TX3eB5Kp82CFYNOfKQ6j6HBI2nw7JX1MmrbBxxAtaT/T1xpxYrMdnneRsVA6nQXCEmxyCqWzJvCxlg8G/LF3d4aV2o++FrCDUG3ZAGfyM9PP5jk5UXWYz8848m0vqRzbw== x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 768cecc6-2fe3-4995-5e02-08d48d9e9464 x-ms-office365-filtering-ht: Tenant x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:SN1PR0501MB2064; H:SN1PR0501MB2062.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; MLV:sfv; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 27 Apr 2017 18:52:39.9256 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SN1PR0501MB2064 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 18:55:59 -0000 Hi Carlos, Thanks for the review.=20 Regarding comment 1), I agree completely. I didn't know that there were any other utilities called "Extended Ping". C= ould you send me a pointer. I never liked the name XPING, anyway. Can you suggest a better name? Mayb= e "probe"? The following also come to mind: - ahoy - hola - ciao=20 But maybe they are too cute? Ron >=20 > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2017 01:24:23 +0000 > From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" > To: Wassim Haddad > Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" > > Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) > Message-ID: <1DEBF891-EA30-4989-8C24-139F6FEDA7AC@cisco.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8" >=20 > Hi, >=20 > This document aims at addressing a real operational problem, describing a > very useful approach. >=20 > I support its adoption by Int-area. >=20 > That said, three comments: >=20 > 1. Given the generally applicable tool it describes, an ?Implementatio= n > Status? Section [RFC 7942] ought to be included. > 2. The name ?extended ping? and short name ?xping? are currently used > by other tools and methods. Is this *the* extended ping? Or a different > name? > 3. I send a few comments on the next detail-level to the authors direc= tly. >=20 > Thanks! >=20 > ? Carlos. >=20 From nobody Thu Apr 27 13:32:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E15B129C03 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:32:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.522 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.522 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v-0fcDAa7GnO for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:32:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com [173.37.86.78]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91AED129AF3 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 13:29:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3744; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1493324966; x=1494534566; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=2P7qQ82voGebtShctSuxRTCIzYUxMnYEBqrCL0i7Zd0=; b=JY3K9V0F3j1b/EtX8c9mVjv0bWfuzG7xh9mvw6B3/wRoZSYvmKbTrBKs hCRj3k2uWYUlKxFwQcak+tcLiOk13+6Ui+4/0xdq+P4ni5CL605K5XjIv I0gwBa0lfzGuKdeCR1LXtC7sirBYd/jGWBmECRH+EI/tgGqcIIdHZNl+Y w=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CqAQBaUwJZ/4UNJK1cGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1VhgQwHg2GKGJFLlWyCDyELhXgCGoQJPxgBAgEBAQEBAQFrKIU?= =?us-ascii?q?VAQEBAQIBAQEhEToLBQsCAQgRAwECAQICJgICAiULFQgIAQEEDgWKFQgOrX2CJ?= =?us-ascii?q?osEAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBGAWBC4VJggmCb4RfF4JvLoIxBZAPhkO?= =?us-ascii?q?GfgGTC5FelCYBHziBCm8VRBIBhF4cgWN1iACBDQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.37,385,1488844800"; d="scan'208";a="236750489" Received: from alln-core-11.cisco.com ([173.36.13.133]) by rcdn-iport-7.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 27 Apr 2017 20:29:25 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com (xch-rtp-017.cisco.com [64.101.220.157]) by alln-core-11.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v3RKTNpl030495 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:29:25 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com (64.101.220.160) by XCH-RTP-017.cisco.com (64.101.220.157) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1210.3; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:29:24 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) by XCH-RTP-020.cisco.com ([64.101.220.160]) with mapi id 15.00.1210.000; Thu, 27 Apr 2017 16:29:24 -0400 From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" To: "Ronald P. Bonica" CC: "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) Thread-Index: AdK/h3CkXDSskNoHQm6/xuytoLuCZwALws2A Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:29:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.82.251.5] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <0B7AC2F6D117C24EB9B721731439290A@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Extended Ping (Xping) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2017 20:32:44 -0000 SGksIFJvbiwNCg0KQW55dGltZSENCg0K4oCcRXh0ZW5kZWQgUGluZ+KAnSBpcyB0aGUgbmFtZSBm b3IgdGhlIGludGVyYWN0aXZlIHZlcnNpb24gb2YgdGhlIHBpbmcgdXRpbGl0eS4gQSBzZWFyY2gg ZW5naW5lIHNlZW1zIHRvIGZpbmQgYSBidW5jaCBvZiBvdGhlcnMgKGl0IGlzIGEgbmF0dXJhbCBl eHRlbnNpb24gZm9yIGEgbmFtZSA6LSkNCg0KVGhpcyBwYXJ0aWN1bGFyIHV0aWxpdHkgc2VlbXMg dG8gaGF2ZSBsZXNzIGNvbW1vbmFsaXR5IHRvIGBwaW5nYCB0aGFuIHRvIGFuIGF0b21pYyBxdWVy eSBmb3IgcmVtb3RlIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIHN0YXRlLiBGb3IgZXhhbXBsZSwgaW4gYSB0b3BvbG9n eSBsaWtlIEEtLS0tLUlQdjRfb25seV9uZXQtLS0tLUIsIHdoZXJlIEIgaGFzIGFuIElQdjYgaW50 ZXJmYWNlLiBJZiB4cGluZyBpcyBzZW50IGFzIGFuIElDTVB2NCwgcXVlcnlpbmcgZm9yIGFuIElQ djYgaW50ZXJmYWNlLCB3aWxsIGl0IHJldHVybiDigJxVcOKAnSBldmVuIHRob3VnaCB0aGVyZSBp cyBubyBJUCBjb25uZWN0aXZpdHkgdG8gdGhhdCBpbnRlcmZhY2U/DQoNCklmIHNvLCB0aGF04oCZ cyBsZXNzIGEgcHJvYmUgYW5kIG1vcmUgYSBnZXRfaW50ZXJmYWNlX3N0YXRlLg0KDQpUaGF0IGNv dWxkIG90aGVyd2lzZSBiZSB0d28gZGlmZmVyZW50IHJlcG9ydHMsIG9uZSBmb3IgcGF0aCBjb25u ZWN0aXZpdHkgYW5kIHRoZSBvdGhlciBmb3IgaW50ZXJmYWNlIHN0YXRlLCB3aXRob3V0IGFnZ2x1 dGluYXRpbmcgdGhlbSBvciBtaXhpbmcgQUZzLg0KDQpJIG11c3Qgc2F5IHRob3VnaCB0aGF0IEkg YWN0dWFsbHkgcmVhbGx5IGxpa2UgdGhlIHNhbHV0YXRpb24tdGhlbWVkIG5hbWluZy4gS29ubmlj aGl3YSBpcyBwZXJoYXBzIHRvbyBsb25n4oCmIFlvPyBIZXk/IFRvbyBpbmZvcm1hbOKApiA6LSkg SXQgaXMgYSBzb3J0LW9mIEFZVSAoQXJlIFlvdSBVcD8pDQoNCuKAlCBDYXJsb3MuDQoNCj4gT24g QXByIDI3LCAyMDE3LCBhdCAyOjUyIFBNLCBSb24gQm9uaWNhIDxyYm9uaWNhQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0 PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+IEhpIENhcmxvcywNCj4gDQo+IFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlldy4g DQo+IA0KPiBSZWdhcmRpbmcgY29tbWVudCAxKSwgSSBhZ3JlZSBjb21wbGV0ZWx5Lg0KPiANCj4g SSBkaWRuJ3Qga25vdyB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIHdlcmUgYW55IG90aGVyIHV0aWxpdGllcyBjYWxsZWQg IkV4dGVuZGVkIFBpbmciLiBDb3VsZCB5b3Ugc2VuZCBtZSBhIHBvaW50ZXIuDQo+IA0KPiBJIG5l dmVyIGxpa2VkIHRoZSBuYW1lIFhQSU5HLCBhbnl3YXkuICBDYW4geW91IHN1Z2dlc3QgYSBiZXR0 ZXIgbmFtZT8gIE1heWJlICJwcm9iZSI/DQo+IA0KPiBUaGUgZm9sbG93aW5nIGFsc28gY29tZSB0 byBtaW5kOg0KPiANCj4gLSBhaG95DQo+IC0gaG9sYQ0KPiAtIGNpYW8gDQo+IA0KPiBCdXQgbWF5 YmUgdGhleSBhcmUgdG9vIGN1dGU/DQo+IA0KPiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICBSb24NCj4gDQo+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBNZXNzYWdlOiAxDQo+PiBEYXRlOiBTdW4sIDIzIEFw ciAyMDE3IDAxOjI0OjIzICswMDAwDQo+PiBGcm9tOiAiQ2FybG9zIFBpZ25hdGFybyAoY3BpZ25h dGEpIiA8Y3BpZ25hdGFAY2lzY28uY29tPg0KPj4gVG86IFdhc3NpbSBIYWRkYWQgPHdhc3NpbS5o YWRkYWRAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tPg0KPj4gQ2M6ICJpbnQtYXJlYUBpZXRmLm9yZyIgPGludC1hcmVh QGlldGYub3JnPiwgImludGFyZWEtY2hhaXJzQGlldGYub3JnIg0KPj4gCTxpbnRhcmVhLWNoYWly c0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbSW50LWFyZWFdIFdHIEFkb3B0aW9uIENhbGw6 IEV4dGVuZGVkIFBpbmcgKFhwaW5nKQ0KPj4gTWVzc2FnZS1JRDogPDFERUJGODkxLUVBMzAtNDk4 OS04QzI0LTEzOUY2RkVEQTdBQ0BjaXNjby5jb20+DQo+PiBDb250ZW50LVR5cGU6IHRleHQvcGxh aW47IGNoYXJzZXQ9InV0Zi04Ig0KPj4gDQo+PiBIaSwNCj4+IA0KPj4gVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBh aW1zIGF0IGFkZHJlc3NpbmcgYSByZWFsIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIHByb2JsZW0sIGRlc2NyaWJpbmcg YQ0KPj4gdmVyeSB1c2VmdWwgYXBwcm9hY2guDQo+PiANCj4+IEkgc3VwcG9ydCBpdHMgYWRvcHRp b24gYnkgSW50LWFyZWEuDQo+PiANCj4+IFRoYXQgc2FpZCwgdGhyZWUgY29tbWVudHM6DQo+PiAN Cj4+ICAxLiAgR2l2ZW4gdGhlIGdlbmVyYWxseSBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIHRvb2wgaXQgZGVzY3JpYmVz LCBhbiA/SW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24NCj4+IFN0YXR1cz8gU2VjdGlvbiBbUkZDIDc5NDJdIG91Z2h0 IHRvIGJlIGluY2x1ZGVkLg0KPj4gIDIuICBUaGUgbmFtZSA/ZXh0ZW5kZWQgcGluZz8gYW5kIHNo b3J0IG5hbWUgP3hwaW5nPyBhcmUgY3VycmVudGx5IHVzZWQNCj4+IGJ5IG90aGVyIHRvb2xzIGFu ZCBtZXRob2RzLiBJcyB0aGlzICp0aGUqIGV4dGVuZGVkIHBpbmc/IE9yIGEgZGlmZmVyZW50DQo+ PiBuYW1lPw0KPj4gIDMuICBJIHNlbmQgYSBmZXcgY29tbWVudHMgb24gdGhlIG5leHQgZGV0YWls LWxldmVsIHRvIHRoZSBhdXRob3JzIGRpcmVjdGx5Lg0KPj4gDQo+PiBUaGFua3MhDQo+PiANCj4+ ID8gQ2FybG9zLg0KPj4gDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KPiBJbnQtYXJlYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gSW50LWFyZWFAaWV0Zi5v cmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbnQtYXJlYQ0KDQo=