From nobody Fri Sep 1 09:41:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 955E11326FE; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:41:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150428410356.3237.17926628624505203081@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 09:41:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-05.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 16:41:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces Authors : Ron Bonica Reji Thomas Jen Linkova Chris Lenart Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-probe-05.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2017-09-01 Abstract: This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to test the status of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed interfaces. Alternatively, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly connected. This document updates RFC 4884. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Sep 1 12:16:08 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1848F134595 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 12:16:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.068 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=1.187, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sMzh-Y3DWrBi for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 12:16:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092069036.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.69.36]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3FED91323B4 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 12:16:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=WlUBKPSXYx+W9/lUNKYjwVY5F7ThM+H4cnHQnYhLq5w=; b=fhyNfkWTjnFmLgVvEHdQvvB1e2W/XQFN6MpGho0BX7ff3Ixdd9ZYyVa8p0CpsrolX/wJUaZlSNVNlP7CfmkzH+D+B/WwBUHaGhXV3Uyuy4NvdGHk2Cl6Gt5drsz/54UMDz2JoXlxbbJEZGi2fwKC+w+3Aqv8M1nosB20PBq+EQrIT+blf4SlJUyE2Brh0+wGGwnMvufDNvECbUjyGL00a71t70Qzcc78dXADJvRKGEVIU7OW0DFg/goT84J4hvhUjrHAzCEoWBy4Ve60lgUDNOvTX+/Yh4VLrZTWh0XAwP8U/BmZ0rHJUObzJHKwFDaTyfpbx4598ET02Fdd9vLiQA== Received: from VE1EUR02FT047.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.12.55) by VE1EUR02HT149.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.13.25) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.1.1385.11; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:16:02 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.12.60) by VE1EUR02FT047.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.13.237) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1385.11 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:16:02 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1cf:dba6:255a:dca]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::b1cf:dba6:255a:dca%18]) with mapi id 15.20.0013.012; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:16:02 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: int-area Thread-Topic: IPv10. Thread-Index: AdMjVbrmj2/x9/8zTX+gD6oILfbofw== Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:16:02 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:B42E787B0DA78630721D751663DB859F96A3939BA0DDCD1926E111EBCA51B26F; UpperCasedChecksum:901D2980898D1E164A3C27327356F6EF7E6F21CD060ACD026235FEA99A36A379; SizeAsReceived:6773; Count:43 x-tmn: [hUFCo6xkcEJpHc9kGgPOl8xt0JtBd9Yq] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VE1EUR02HT149; 6:G74vE4inz2RjonsDNEyZIcFrHSV+/RbRifaFea/YeZdmigIzP3q0FUSQ+a91pgNyAKbeoBlkdGyKpMAcf9Tcntohufbz1Kq5LfcJ2OZxotrLO1syZgQeZr+74Qf3LOokdIGbIgSrl5Yc4TMXRdTAEBfy7LfxgJj8CaNb01jtkTSftCK4JUB1bQ8469NvaWvGfENQtN+XMpQAJQTgj7I/JTFHNaHgflPDKN5x7h04yq8zdWJ9EDKkhip5oHupfz8C+EEO7vNIgLSBKxwDauEq1jNUGV3eWCb4XH3QzhrPURUwHaLeTllPhsOA66LUOhMxRVs0Vgn3ccsPSOjhBsdbWA==; 5:6ay8MR5EMHVFJ5D9Fkl+QdD+xzaYjO00cXwtnIe++cQH+1T/BGPZJTeQeDI3aKOkEN9l/wMPqYY2+9/ZbseJcKsRZSctRvsfmfFfLm6R/mapfdPjQjN6ubT9tfANBDeZTCAHUtrSaNJ0qQtFMVkyiw==; 24:5JCZuf8uwf1S36+Hd1uqt/2K4zULfwZEX6HAIXz9vrM+IjpYaHdTbiIj0oKc/vb7tvwGlwkR9ag3pIDoMyLzr6Yk3RgcFd0w6FWd1+hM3IU=; 7:yIaJKsopN3wYRFWBBC86Ukl50m4/7y+GJWZHHVchJS3ldoe1Kgtj98y84vC0+6XOT11hOAj1KKxA4Pcgdd0AivBpnvD9Qa4rYWT6q+/V797zMakkZ26nBNK3bvnBAbElHTmBK5GfbIjyn7bMfobe6Ul3Wmwuqj+U5Q9LWw8d33kkNByvT1OwIhA2yh08FZC4oN63b+d3Mxu09alZxd+qEHe5SCneJNdXVcmeBShefkE= x-incomingheadercount: 43 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d8beed75-f85f-4286-a71f-08d4f16de2e1 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(300000503095)(300135400095)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:VE1EUR02HT149; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VE1EUR02HT149: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(120809045254105)(21748063052155); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031); SRVR:VE1EUR02HT149; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:VE1EUR02HT149; x-forefront-prvs: 0417A3FFD2 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:VE1EUR02HT149; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB22411332FAA7D25D56A49ABEBD920AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Sep 2017 19:16:02.4532 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VE1EUR02HT149 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 19:16:07 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB22411332FAA7D25D56A49ABEBD920AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Everyone, We still can continue the discussion of the IPv10 I-D, I'm asking all of yo= u if interested to take it easy to start that discussion to participate thr= ough the Internet Area WG or somewhere else (Private or whatever). Below you can find a link to the IPv10 I-D. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-omar-ipv10/ Statistics still shows slow speed of IPv6 adoption and the IPv6 only hosts = are having a limited access to the internet resources. Best regards, Khaled Omar --_000_AM4PR0401MB22411332FAA7D25D56A49ABEBD920AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Everyone,

 

We still can continue the discussion of the IPv10 I-= D, I’m asking all of you if interested to take it easy to start that = discussion to participate through the Internet Area WG or somewhere else (P= rivate or whatever).

 

Below you can find a link to the IPv10 I-D.

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-omar-ipv10/

 

Statistics still shows slow speed of IPv6 adoption a= nd the IPv6 only hosts are having a limited access to the internet resource= s.

 

Best regards,

 

Khaled Omar

 

--_000_AM4PR0401MB22411332FAA7D25D56A49ABEBD920AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Fri Sep 1 13:14:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 973A013420A; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:14:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QAayCC8nx_mU; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usplmg21.ericsson.net (usplmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A4F1B134589; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:14:40 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-0f7ff70000002d27-96-59a9794c5443 Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usplmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id BB.CE.11559.C4979A95; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 17:14:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [155.53.28.105] (147.117.188.8) by smtp-am.internal.ericsson.com (147.117.188.98) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.352.0; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 16:14:39 -0400 From: Wassim Haddad Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Message-ID: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:14:39 -0700 CC: Wassim Haddad , To: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFupgluLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonQde3cmWkwb8mXosbs26yWMx+4OXA 5LFkyU+mAMYoLpuU1JzMstQifbsEroxDn2ezF5xhrrj99Dt7A+Nnpi5GTg4JAROJPw+/MHcx cnEICRxllDh49C4bhLOWUeJW82FWkCo2AQOJr8vPAtkcHMwCmhLrd+mDhJkFtCWWLXzNDGLz CuhLvNr9kx3EFhbwklhybx0LRNxe4ln3HbAxLAIqEs+7vjNC9HpKtP/6DlYjIiAusefkCaiD ZCVuzb4ENlNIQF1iyq0JLBMY+WYhbJ6FZPMsJJsXMDKvYuQoLS7IyU03MtzECAyfYxJsjjsY 9/Z6HmIU4GBU4uHtyF0ZKcSaWFZcmXuIUYKDWUmE99R6oBBvSmJlVWpRfnxRaU5q8SFGaQ4W JXHed+UXIoQE0hNLUrNTUwtSi2CyTBycUg2MgXN/soUfeZdQcXjfQo2iDWdLfy6q/q1k9WSP WV8d66aH9fuOcC+5dpHv8c2AO1lZiVdf5Lb9NAraUKtTr2b7c+08h91P16b8DTs+fVMRUxXP 7fbr+rEKXxgEDtpwyjdI+rG6fwnblHLC4+Xhqb1RMyLyMgoPeYmx/Jmd99L+wbHQoxcv5dxw UmIpzkg01GIuKk4EACaLCx8bAgAA Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 20:14:42 -0000 Dear all, Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we would = like to start a WG adoption call for = draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 on "Discovering = Provisioning Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D: = https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.txt Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is = September 18th. Regards, Wassim & Juan Carlos From nobody Fri Sep 1 13:54:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E40D13438E for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:54:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.499 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.499 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id X7494XDM61dH for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:54:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob15.registeredsite.com (atl4mhob15.registeredsite.com [209.17.115.53]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 02BE2132E7B for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 13:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.209]) by atl4mhob15.registeredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v81Ks5Dm025947 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 16:54:05 -0400 Received: (qmail 3268 invoked by uid 0); 1 Sep 2017 20:54:05 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 72.221.14.181 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.160?) (lee@asgard.org@72.221.14.181) by 0 with ESMTPA; 1 Sep 2017 20:54:04 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.2.170228 Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 16:54:02 -0400 From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar , int-area Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 20:54:10 -0000 From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar Date: Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:16 PM To: int-area Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. >Hi Everyone, >=20 >We still can continue the discussion of the IPv10 I-D, I=E2=80=99m asking all of >you if interested to take it easy to start that discussion to participate >through the Internet Area WG or somewhere else (Private or whatever). > > > I thought you threatened us with legal action if we ever mentioned it again? I=E2=80=99m going to respond respectfully and seriously. > >=20 >Below you can find a link to the IPv10 I-D. >=20 >https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-omar-ipv10/ > > > Detailed review below. > >=20 >Statistics still shows slow speed of IPv6 adoption and the IPv6 only >hosts are having a limited access to the internet resources. > The draft says 15% adoption as of April 2017, but the same resource (Google) now shows over 20% adoption, four months later. If you use a logistic adoption curve, most Internet connections will be over IPv6 in less than two years: https://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/project.php?metric=3Dp&timeforward=3D365&time backward=3D365&country=3Dww Other notes on the draft: In several places you say =E2=80=9Cdid not,=E2=80=9D where I think =E2=80=9Chave not=E2=80=9D is mo= re appropriate. For instance, =E2=80=9Cmost enterprises did not do this migration=E2=80=9D should be =E2=80=9Cmost enterprises have not done this migration.=E2=80=9D The time to migrate has not passed: they simply have not done it yet. Maybe they never will, but we don=E2=80=99t know. I recommend changing the list under"The recent solutions for IPv4 and IPv6 coexistence are:=E2=80=9D Native dual stack (IPv4 and IPv6) Dual-stack Lite NAT64 464xlat MAP (other technologies also exist, like lw6over4; they may have more specific use cases) =E2=80=9CDual stack=E2=80=9D not =E2=80=9CDual stacks.=E2=80=9D There are two kinds of tunneling techniques: IPv4 over IPv6 (DS-Lite, 4rd, MAP) and IPv6 over IPv4 (6rd, NAT-PMT). NAT-PT was deprecated (except under managed circumstances) by RFC4966 "Reasons to Move the Network Address Translator - Protocol Translator (NAT-PT) to Historic Status" Section 3 isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9CAdvantages,=E2=80=9D it=E2=80=99s the protocol description. Move t= he =E2=80=9Cadvantages=E2=80=9D discussion to the end, if you keep it at all. Section 3.1 In the packet header, you show =E2=80=9CData=E2=80=9D prior to the addresses. Is it a packet footer? I don=E2=80=99t understand the format. I referred to Section 4, where it looks like a more conventional packet header, but comparing the two it still looks like data precedes source address (at least in Section 3). The documentation prefixes are 2001:db8:: (rfc3849) and 192.0.2.0/24, 198.51.100.0/24 and 203.0.113.0/24 (rfc5737). How does the IPv10 sending host know the ASN and MAC of the IPv4 destination host?=20 Given the concerns expressed in rfc4941 "Privacy Extensions for Stateless Address Autoconfiguration in IPv6=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t there a privacy concern with using the MAC address? What benefit is there in using ASN and MAC? Why not just pad with zeroes? You have the host configuration include an IPv4 address for the DNS Address. How will an IPv6-only how use an IPv4 DNS server? If your answer is =E2=80=9CIPv10=E2=80=9D then I think there=E2=80=99s a bootstrap problem of how to reach t= he server so you can get information needed to reach the server. Section 3.2 This example is even clearer. In the example, the network is dual stack all the way to the default gateway. If it were dual-stack that far, why not dual-stack the host? Using NAT44, or any of the myriad transition protocols available. In fact, that=E2=80=99s the current dual-stack scenario (native IPv6 plus NAT44), and one which you point out is untenable as we run out of IPv4 addresses to assign to networks. A residential ISP can=E2=80=99t dual-stack a customer=E2=80=99s CPE when they=E2=80=99re out of IPv4 addresses, so how = can IPv10 work? Further, if the network is dual-stack, why not enable dual-stack on the host, using existing protocols? Why develop a new one, and require the host to implement all of IPv4, IPv6, and IPv10, and then disable either IPv4 or IPv6? Same question as in 3.1 about the packet format, and how an IPv4 host uses an IPv6 name server. I understand how a host might be able to insert its MAC address into a 128 bit source address, but how does it know its ASN? What does it do if it=E2=80=99s behind NAT44, as is almost universally the case? The routers would have to be updated to recognize the IPv10 address and translate just the IPv4 address bits, right? Firewalls would have to be updated to recognize the IPv10 address format. In the example, it=E2=80=99s confusing to have the packet going from right to left. You=E2=80=99ve changed the order of the header fields, but not the bits in the fields. Section 3.3 Without seeing full header information, I can=E2=80=99t tell how this is differen= t than native IPv6. Section 3.4 In addition to the questions from Section 3.2, I=E2=80=99m confused about why you need IPv10 in this case, when you have two hosts that speak IPv4 and all networks in between speak IPv4. The =E2=80=9CImportant Notes=E2=80=9D should be its own section. As you point out, I cannot understand why this would be faster to deploy than IPv6 when: "IPv4 and IPv6 routing must be enabled on all routers=E2=80=9D and "All Internet connected hosts must be IPv10 hosts=E2=80=9D IPv6 has a 20% head start over IPv10. IPv10 isn=E2=80=99t useful until it=E2=80=99s 100% deployed. How will it ever catch up? I think you=E2=80=99ve said in the past that IPv10 only requires software updates= , but if a header has to be parsed to decide whether to forward over IPv4 or IPv6 (but it can=E2=80=99t use IPv4 because it=E2=80=99s not IPv4, so you have a whole = new forwarding plane to develop) it needs to be done at hardware speeds. Punting to the route engine at Internet scale means dropping packets. Section 4 This should come before Section 3, IMHO. Are the Traffic Class, Flow Label, and Next Header field values identical to IPv6 fields? In summary: This might be possible, with enough work, but I can=E2=80=99t see how it will overtake the momentum of IPv6 deployment and existing transition mechanisms. Here=E2=80=99s a possible timeline, being very generous to IPv10: IPv6 IPv10 2018 50% of US WG discussion 2019 50% of world IETF nearing consensus (into 2020) 2021 75% of world first vendor code ships 2026 99% of world Old hardware that couldn=E2=80=99t support new code is cycling out You can prove me wrong: 1. Write an implementation. Show how an IPv4+IPv10 host can communicate with an IPv6+IPv10 host over a dual-stack (or triple-stack) network. If the router implementation is an open-source router, that=E2=80=99s fine at this stage. 2. Have someone else write an implementation that interoperates with yours. That will demonstrate that the document is detailed enough and clear enough. 3. Do some performance testing. Show that it is easier to update to IPv10 than to dual-stack (including IPv6+transition), and that there is no performance penalty for doing so. 4. Convince a router vendor to implement in test code, and run load testing, to demonstrate that it works at Internet scale. If you can get through Step 3, you may be able to get to Step 4, and if you can do Step 4 you have a good shot at convincing other vendors to implement. If you can get through at least Step 3, you=E2=80=99ll be in good shap= e in looking for IETF consensus, because you=E2=80=99ll have running code. While I am skeptical of this specific proposal, I wish you luck and hope you will engage with other work in the IETF. 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cm5ldCBzY2FsZS4NCg0KSWYgeW91IGNhbiBnZXQgdGhyb3VnaCBTdGVwIDMsIHlvdSBtYXkgYmUg YWJsZSB0byBnZXQgdG8gU3RlcCA0LCBhbmQgaWYgeW91IGNhbiBkbyBTdGVwIDQgeW91IGhhdmUg YSBnb29kIHNob3QgYXQgY29udmluY2luZyBvdGhlciB2ZW5kb3JzIHRvIGltcGxlbWVudC4gSWYg eW91IGNhbiBnZXQgdGhyb3VnaCBhdCBsZWFzdCBTdGVwIDMsIHlvdeKAmWxsIGJlIGluIGdvb2Qg c2hhcGUgaW4gbG9va2luZyBmb3IgSUVURiBjb25zZW5zdXMsIGJlY2F1c2UgeW914oCZbGwgaGF2 ZSBydW5uaW5nIGNvZGUuDQoNCg0KV2hpbGUgSSBhbSBza2VwdGljYWwgb2YgdGhpcyBzcGVjaWZp YyBwcm9wb3NhbCwgSSB3aXNoIHlvdSBsdWNrIGFuZCBob3BlIHlvdSB3aWxsIGVuZ2FnZSB3aXRo IG90aGVyIHdvcmsgaW4gdGhlIElFVEYuDQoNCkxlZQ0KDQoNCg0KDQo= From nobody Fri Sep 1 17:12:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27E8A132FE8 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 17:12:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 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h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=sS51JKAcptIAObH1kYy83OcbnlIX8/X+zxiEESaKZuc=; b=W6hHzJPOMP121WXniGktRId3rx1/SHIBk+ImakwMK4/yLfff+9zO81E0bLiPgwp71q mhrrOpQUN+j23UJ7P8v33BIYrrt6DWykUf8VOVTExJ0sviRv/RAYE4aOq8I4/KNrrvSZ 1WemxQy2rfwpX/hEJVOuDrX0Svz8SGXRlqAgXWlwIPmO8q+joZNFXjGp6oQs5j61WxvJ 8aYaRs5tiVdPhYEKeFR1d5jb4AwbtNIZMLVjRf7rQvRP7eW4KtyLVFiMcy8Qi1Kj7XvV Qxgs1rNRTO3MPBBiiT06i3QXtL2BsCaPxsoHQateBqMFH4ez9CmrxoFBFen3xA0FCiQm MoSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=sS51JKAcptIAObH1kYy83OcbnlIX8/X+zxiEESaKZuc=; b=TdkGvc9VTfHTzp8oQiQq/XDMd2f5qN9JaY6OlRBIB7QLuX5McZvAEhOrEBxhcf/Tb+ zEXcUzAmbOQWAIZnOgqYWx6PFbyMYEdN+qEgl6PzzwiwSHae7IlKW0Hm85X8MtQ5kqoj M4I6hz1JgkaCzyR60oanvR/msAIW9FtjUdkPy4bgr9b43slhZpqU6flRYh564vwuRYvO aXJRLjYc0ZORIqTK1wUai4XTiMHtKn0P2JEeFIJlGARGIR1IPH289oUtYFyOavdARhky LvUKf6crucLYZMspXD4cfn8FjsWLzdimNM6dOMa6D/ALxJkc5MvVWfJ6xBn1NxaTFRcM 3r9g== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUg3+5BvWDts9qEB7TAZq+9x20DxbT10T7G+N/qOtAC+R2QaJEXr 6EN5Rbrer8qgBIewF0REWaUrVvnnxSBt X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb4KbTYNzH8CtnSluQDQkS9rDtwflJEXYmd7V/nS3qvmpfbFmbmU4CvEEFzUEiFn+MOCM1bVSZlhsbNpQyjHgfw= X-Received: by 10.98.163.19 with SMTP id s19mr4194764pfe.228.1504311144988; Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:12:24 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.152.98 with HTTP; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 17:11:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> From: Ted Lemon Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 20:11:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: Wassim Haddad Cc: int-area@ietf.org, intarea-chairs@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a113a37886dd638055829bb87" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2017 00:12:27 -0000 --001a113a37886dd638055829bb87 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I would like to see this work adopted. This has the potential to be very useful for multi-homed sites. On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Wassim Haddad wrote: > Dear all, > > Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we would > like to start a WG adoption call for draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-d= omains-02 > on "Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D: > > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.txt > > Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is > September 18th. > > > Regards, > > Wassim & Juan Carlos > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > --001a113a37886dd638055829bb87 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I would like to see this work adopted.=C2=A0 =C2=A0This ha= s the potential to be very useful for multi-homed sites.

On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 4:14 PM= , Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com> wrote:=
Dear all,

Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we would lik= e to start a WG adoption call for draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-d= omains-02 on "Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D:=

https://www.ietf.org/id/dra= ft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.txt

Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is Sept= ember 18th.


Regards,

Wassim & Juan Carlos





_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

--001a113a37886dd638055829bb87-- From nobody Fri Sep 1 18:38:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8722E132D95 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:38:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.718 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.718 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZbtpY3HFVbGA for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:38:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob19.registeredsite.com (atl4mhob19.registeredsite.com [209.17.115.112]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CD7A41344CF for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 18:38:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.211]) by atl4mhob19.registeredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v821cAdX046461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 21:38:10 -0400 Received: (qmail 16160 invoked by uid 0); 2 Sep 2017 01:38:10 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 68.100.68.25 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.160?) (lee@asgard.org@68.100.68.25) by 0 with ESMTPA; 2 Sep 2017 01:38:10 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.2.170228 Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 21:38:07 -0400 From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar CC: int-area Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2017 01:38:22 -0000 On 9/1/17, 6:04 PM, "Khaled Omar" wrote: > > >After all these concerns, I would like to thank you again for adding your >name again to the I-D :-) Leaving aside all other concerns, I have not added my name to the draft. Please do not try again to list me as a co-author. Lee > >Best Regards, > >Khaled Omar > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] >Sent: Friday, September 1, 2017 10:54 PM >To: Khaled Omar; int-area >Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > >From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar > >Date: Friday, September 1, 2017 at 3:16 PM >To: int-area >Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. > > >>Hi Everyone, >>=20 >>We still can continue the discussion of the IPv10 I-D, I=E2=80=99m asking all >>of you if interested to take it easy to start that discussion to >>participate through the Internet Area WG or somewhere else (Private or >>whatever). >> >> >> > >I thought you threatened us with legal action if we ever mentioned it >again? > >I=E2=80=99m going to respond respectfully and seriously. > >> >>=20 >>Below you can find a link to the IPv10 I-D. >>=20 >>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-omar-ipv10/ >> >> >> > >Detailed review below. > >> >>=20 >>Statistics still shows slow speed of IPv6 adoption and the IPv6 only >>hosts are having a limited access to the internet resources. >> > >The draft says 15% adoption as of April 2017, but the same resource >(Google) now shows over 20% adoption, four months later. >If you use a logistic adoption curve, most Internet connections will be >over IPv6 in less than two years: >https://www.vyncke.org/ipv6status/project.php?metric=3Dp&timeforward=3D365&tim >e >backward=3D365&country=3Dww > >Other notes on the draft: >In several places you say =E2=80=9Cdid not,=E2=80=9D where I think =E2=80=9Chave not=E2=80=9D is m= ore >appropriate. For instance, =E2=80=9Cmost enterprises did not do this migration=E2=80= =9D >should be =E2=80=9Cmost enterprises have not done this migration.=E2=80=9D The time to >migrate has not passed: they simply have not done it yet. Maybe they >never will, but we don=E2=80=99t know. > >I recommend changing the list under"The recent solutions for IPv4 and >IPv6 coexistence are:=E2=80=9D >Native dual stack (IPv4 and IPv6) >Dual-stack Lite >NAT64 >464xlat >MAP >(other technologies also exist, like lw6over4; they may have more >specific use cases) > >=E2=80=9CDual stack=E2=80=9D not =E2=80=9CDual stacks.=E2=80=9D >There are two kinds of tunneling techniques: IPv4 over IPv6 (DS-Lite, 4rd, >MAP) and IPv6 over IPv4 (6rd, NAT-PMT). >NAT-PT was deprecated (except under managed circumstances) by RFC4966 >"Reasons to Move the Network Address Translator - Protocol Translator >(NAT-PT) to Historic Status" > >Section 3 isn=E2=80=99t =E2=80=9CAdvantages,=E2=80=9D it=E2=80=99s the protocol description. Move = the >=E2=80=9Cadvantages=E2=80=9D discussion to the end, if you keep it at all. > >Section 3.1 >In the packet header, you show =E2=80=9CData=E2=80=9D prior to the addresses. Is it a >packet footer? I don=E2=80=99t understand the format. I referred to Section 4, >where it looks like a more conventional packet header, but comparing the >two it still looks like data precedes source address (at least in Section >3). > >The documentation prefixes are 2001:db8:: (rfc3849) and 192.0.2.0/24, >198.51.100.0/24 and 203.0.113.0/24 (rfc5737). > >How does the IPv10 sending host know the ASN and MAC of the IPv4 >destination host?=20 >Given the concerns expressed in rfc4941 "Privacy Extensions for Stateless >Address Autoconfiguration in IPv6=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t there a privacy concern with >using the MAC address? >What benefit is there in using ASN and MAC? Why not just pad with zeroes? > >You have the host configuration include an IPv4 address for the DNS >Address. How will an IPv6-only how use an IPv4 DNS server? If your answer >is =E2=80=9CIPv10=E2=80=9D then I think there=E2=80=99s a bootstrap problem of how to reach = the >server so you can get information needed to reach the server. > > >Section 3.2 >This example is even clearer. In the example, the network is dual stack >all the way to the default gateway. If it were dual-stack that far, why >not dual-stack the host? Using NAT44, or any of the myriad transition >protocols available. In fact, that=E2=80=99s the current dual-stack scenario >(native IPv6 plus NAT44), and one which you point out is untenable as we >run out of IPv4 addresses to assign to networks. A residential ISP can=E2=80=99t >dual-stack a customer=E2=80=99s CPE when they=E2=80=99re out of IPv4 addresses, so how= can >IPv10 work? > >Further, if the network is dual-stack, why not enable dual-stack on the >host, using existing protocols? Why develop a new one, and require the >host to implement all of IPv4, IPv6, and IPv10, and then disable either >IPv4 or IPv6? > >Same question as in 3.1 about the packet format, and how an IPv4 host >uses an IPv6 name server. >I understand how a host might be able to insert its MAC address into a >128 bit source address, but how does it know its ASN? >What does it do if it=E2=80=99s behind NAT44, as is almost universally the case? >The routers would have to be updated to recognize the IPv10 address and >translate just the IPv4 address bits, right? >Firewalls would have to be updated to recognize the IPv10 address format. > >In the example, it=E2=80=99s confusing to have the packet going from right to >left. You=E2=80=99ve changed the order of the header fields, but not the bits in >the fields. > > >Section 3.3 >Without seeing full header information, I can=E2=80=99t tell how this is >different than native IPv6. > >Section 3.4 >In addition to the questions from Section 3.2, I=E2=80=99m confused about why yo= u >need IPv10 in this case, when you have two hosts that speak IPv4 and all >networks in between speak IPv4. > > >The =E2=80=9CImportant Notes=E2=80=9D should be its own section. >As you point out, I cannot understand why this would be faster to deploy >than IPv6 when: >"IPv4 and IPv6 routing must be enabled on all routers=E2=80=9D >and >"All Internet connected hosts must be IPv10 hosts=E2=80=9D > >IPv6 has a 20% head start over IPv10. >IPv10 isn=E2=80=99t useful until it=E2=80=99s 100% deployed. How will it ever catch up= ? > >I think you=E2=80=99ve said in the past that IPv10 only requires software >updates, but if a header has to be parsed to decide whether to forward >over IPv4 or >IPv6 (but it can=E2=80=99t use IPv4 because it=E2=80=99s not IPv4, so you have a whole >new forwarding plane to develop) it needs to be done at hardware speeds. >Punting to the route engine at Internet scale means dropping packets. > >Section 4 >This should come before Section 3, IMHO. > >Are the Traffic Class, Flow Label, and Next Header field values identical >to IPv6 fields? > > > >In summary: >This might be possible, with enough work, but I can=E2=80=99t see how it will >overtake the momentum of IPv6 deployment and existing transition >mechanisms. Here=E2=80=99s a possible timeline, being very generous to IPv10: > IPv6 IPv10 >2018 50% of US WG discussion >2019 50% of world IETF nearing consensus (into 2020) >2021 75% of world first vendor code ships >2026 99% of world Old hardware that couldn=E2=80=99t support new code is cyclin= g >out > > >You can prove me wrong: >1. Write an implementation. Show how an IPv4+IPv10 host can communicate >with an IPv6+IPv10 host over a dual-stack (or triple-stack) network. If >the router implementation is an open-source router, that=E2=80=99s fine at this >stage. >2. Have someone else write an implementation that interoperates with >yours. That will demonstrate that the document is detailed enough and >clear enough. >3. Do some performance testing. Show that it is easier to update to IPv10 >than to dual-stack (including IPv6+transition), and that there is no >performance penalty for doing so. >4. Convince a router vendor to implement in test code, and run load >testing, to demonstrate that it works at Internet scale. > >If you can get through Step 3, you may be able to get to Step 4, and if >you can do Step 4 you have a good shot at convincing other vendors to >implement. If you can get through at least Step 3, you=E2=80=99ll be in good >shape in looking for IETF consensus, because you=E2=80=99ll have running code. > > >While I am skeptical of this specific proposal, I wish you luck and hope >you will engage with other work in the IETF. > >Lee > > > > From nobody Sat Sep 2 00:47:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8882013437E for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 00:47:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jqMxgvn9eLzb for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 00:47:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22e.google.com (mail-yw0-x22e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C56931321B7 for ; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 00:47:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22e.google.com with SMTP id t188so9408322ywb.1 for ; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 00:47:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KiqRuKe9RIP4wvLYzn5iKd3H6+Wes3A4284xT+qeMVo=; b=vawtLPv0h+bLuinmFfLAKcHFisVFrg/keDMIYeElRjnpUSWVSwEU7WA3woVOuGIkIS CcweI1U1kpOKld6NYXGFY+bFEOl+1UopBcneTw3TfwFCurqV3bF1779a4kETS6RQWVuP NuVtwn2qQOcVYoffqd+ZPVXrczxR+7rgK3d/kXHjThOZOu9LU3mD/UAYX5ao7rPkaf2C z3R8dQKCGU2DxIhHed1/qqBdiH5OhOIJ5zg+ICHzm52zrSKTPjcvkodLV1k7uTfb7xSz iiG27vEP8uuRXWKvPmEs3IAsJsqzJD2V30abzZ37O6g0P4Yll0cz+CGGoI/koZLHpX7F oePg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KiqRuKe9RIP4wvLYzn5iKd3H6+Wes3A4284xT+qeMVo=; b=Qc75XHqzrfFN5CAkNDv7cfUvGzrGqZfRAybX9qwBNqNFfI+OLoiwyesbWLemnnW1gS TnNT8hgxqPwbzKD8pbVg0QJ8Ac9mvAQ2PTX+G/WqTZTk3PweAjUVQg7QRDMdGxVnjFr1 YijqN535jLEDsNWDR7mD8VBcY/MLklVGneFcddNHLMvbxguja+CSmcWly2/59z56w8Qv ZD9oaaVe0P+OjKWD5GFOY3T7VjzpQEbMoGZ/PbUtutT2BB/iuvhPvpWwPB17NWTeNgYN nsmIkMHqpJpkbPbMQJvd5zd8jShRKlqXv7lcNDFWh52/GMd/r7/6CbZ20tZxiPbl2e2l g7kQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUi188oSIHF1bKKrris8Ip+HwmyY7WGYPOmhK4Nqnwb6Kt/+Kke8 NZUGbSq6jIOeJVKdAFah+e2/HU0aAruY X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5SpGPRKMD7MSMQ9sSmpoEB/IL/vjWF0S58aQTOw9Tl5T+sXNHC7gS36DiijKCexetMPy58I14hEj1N50OAGkI= X-Received: by 10.37.75.69 with SMTP id y66mr3866511yba.337.1504338440759; Sat, 02 Sep 2017 00:47:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.37.207.84 with HTTP; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 00:47:00 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> From: Erik Kline Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 16:47:00 +0900 Message-ID: To: Ted Lemon Cc: Wassim Haddad , Internet Area , intarea-chairs Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="94eb2c09439e6930140558301638" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2017 07:47:23 -0000 --94eb2c09439e6930140558301638 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable +1 I think we'll be finding many more uses for this work going forward. On 2 September 2017 at 09:11, Ted Lemon wrote: > I would like to see this work adopted. This has the potential to be ver= y > useful for multi-homed sites. > > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Wassim Haddad > wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we would >> like to start a WG adoption call for >> draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 on "Discovering Provisioni= ng >> Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D: >> >> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.tx= t >> >> Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is >> September 18th. >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Wassim & Juan Carlos >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > --94eb2c09439e6930140558301638 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIIS3wYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIS0DCCEswCAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADALBgkqhkiG9w0BBwGg ghBFMIIEXDCCA0SgAwIBAgIOSBtqDm4P/739RPqw/wcwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQELBQAwZDELMAkGA1UE BhMCQkUxGTAXBgNVBAoTEEdsb2JhbFNpZ24gbnYtc2ExOjA4BgNVBAMTMUdsb2JhbFNpZ24gUGVy c29uYWxTaWduIFBhcnRuZXJzIENBIC0gU0hBMjU2IC0gRzIwHhcNMTYwNjE1MDAwMDAwWhcNMjEw 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Thread-Index: AQHTI2R9oV3Dj/HmtUCGe/CLZof6YaKgiUQQgABIM4CAAJ56gA== Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2017 11:06:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: asgard.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;asgard.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:52BEC9A35E0162B0BFFC69C77957326DCA07BE864E681728ED94B7CBEE7B38BF; UpperCasedChecksum:45D43267648A389A864E29EC34A5B29EB9E559B49A740E627DDF4C5FD6EA65EE; SizeAsReceived:7065; Count:46 x-tmn: [OWsBOjv/SdJ9mKVC4RSQzY+G5iwG87Q4] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR03HT163; 6:33K1FcwWpsiYhbAZc/qUwKk4CmXd5enzaItxrBdEH6aX3ERDQsepBpFI5WlYxASnxo5wCM5y3ZDDObt4xwmuGfkJOfN3i/RRolhj9YTEvHWLsiZ6exNv9APMJO+5t2tB/dh8PYegNDQKZHJRctG3yLaTKVFj7Ss0LfilnAMirGsO/HUj43bDYpGSFr2ou2w3B5P8/xv4xb/noIEEqVJlRlPoHoMKL/f2garq1zNU5wTyaQ/dOaFcSElFGFK2Jsu1GxblKAQsvSlW2AXETrMufzwE3M51jCOSxvsI480wOMT3H82mn3ZTX9ZahfHscyRAkA8dQ/DbNhOHsQ0o5V/njg==; 5:l+obCT8izdxANK4CXDj2GqvysPlc8C18nBdpCxTANt+liAZHM25zkISV6X9WOVnrAJ5RCl/0N+ucrObO4NCdxLH/EGoZVciziDViE7ymKRckZYDVdnyc4G+bh/nVg5vZHUdFolmbrzGwYzRWX/LSEQ==; 24:N3MmXPKEinMAtXHkkbq3hNcxyLPonNz/bqAaObWHsH1N0HzHyarHUb5Dr6qndKhbQ/n2G7MHZx3Qi46SsyRl5gVXzu7McRb1gUWOLsX9mnM=; 7:7wXKZpveDmz04vm9sXSOKvWOHynvZyGdJRhM+B4/4HJKKc3ku66x+D6aRfL3SAfX+EyJ+/Tj8eBrPXuCIYRLbyNe5Om+RI2b48rzgGAy2mkWCe3ahB7xxcr9Az/gqig8i8u79I9qbHZBBQjQny6DXEF0lG9TDelQTfz85iENax6GYLmTMaZwJ3hYaFsnL93Bot1RqBoe/O/ixrRHVS8SouSfl5pO1stRoD2Qwf1qY3Y= x-incomingheadercount: 46 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 8c1563ac-30ef-4772-ae8e-08d4f1f2bad7 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(300000503095)(300135400095)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT163; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM5EUR03HT163: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(158342451672863)(120809045254105)(100405760836317)(130873036417446)(194151415913766); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT163; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:AM5EUR03HT163; x-forefront-prvs: 04180B6720 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR03HT163; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 02 Sep 2017 11:06:58.4221 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR03HT163 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. 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X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15A5354b) In-reply-to: Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2017 06:06:32 -0700 Cc: Ted Lemon , Internet Area , intarea-chairs Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> To: Erik Kline X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUi2FAYrBv/b3WkwbQHTBafb89jt7gx6yaL xewHXhZv1hxhcmDxaLqwjN1jwaZSjyVLfjIFMEdx2aSk5mSWpRbp2yVwZdyZP425YDtPxeee XSwNjGu4uhg5OSQETCS+3DrJ0sXIxSEksIZJYsLJrewwia0PT7JBJLYwSmx63MQMkuAVEJT4 MfkeUAcHB7OAusSUKbkQNXOYJCY1HWUFiQsLSEhs3pMIUi4sECVxdsZ9NhCbTUBF4vi3DcwQ 8xUkDuzcxApicwoES6xd/p0dpJVFQFVi9ookkDCzQL7EnMfvmSFsbYkn7y6wQlxgI7Fs3gdW iLVnGSXaJm8Du1lEQE7i/K27YDdLCDSzS+x6N5FtAqPwLCRnz0I4exaSuQsYmVcxCucmZubo ZuYZmeglFhTkpOol5+duYgQF/WomiR2MX14bHmIU4GBU4uHd8H9VpBBrYllxZe4hRmkOFiVx Xg8WoJBAemJJanZqakFqUXxRaU5q8SFGJg5OqQbGg43OCddyGE+/njy5oNHi6KHHDgu4JXYc 7/t7iSfUyf6L4b7fQcoMb9rXcB1Y9kiJsS7eRvXkQemc/V2PYpKnHPmWe6ls8dZPnR8btaNT 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Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2017 13:06:43 -0000 As a co-author, I also support adoption of this PvD work in intarea.=20 Thanks, Tommy > On Sep 2, 2017, at 12:47 AM, Erik Kline wrote: >=20 > +1 >=20 > I think we'll be finding many more uses for this work going forward. >=20 >> On 2 September 2017 at 09:11, Ted Lemon wrote: >> I would like to see this work adopted. This has the potential to be ver= y >> useful for multi-homed sites. >>=20 >> On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Wassim Haddad >> wrote: >>>=20 >>> Dear all, >>>=20 >>> Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we would >>> like to start a WG adoption call for >>> draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 on "Discovering Provisioni= ng >>> Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D: >>>=20 >>> https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.tx= t >>>=20 >>> Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is >>> September 18th. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Regards, >>>=20 >>> Wassim & Juan Carlos >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Int-area mailing list >>> Int-area@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Sun Sep 3 07:06:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B4B3E1321AC; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 07:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 719CxTbRxXcx; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 07:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 823AA1320D8; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 07:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 34F55B1; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 16:06:29 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1504447589; bh=a8ygKruX6mXx+8icFQIqPNwtTCnLXoAFD33GcN9yHEE=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=moacYf32Dg2hLUPjDVnvo9FV7U+6aty6qNZ7Inl335ooDGMSLJOYvcJN/vBBhUSOy fR6PEzDSSv/aeJ++oYtGdh14X+euc8Bz/V4R00xvA1CD8mVlOyW4CEYgPzz9g+wR4u lILIuWtQGlFDraoWYl7+YFikpX7YTAyoJDuyDe4M= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BAFCB0; Sun, 3 Sep 2017 16:06:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Sun, 3 Sep 2017 16:06:29 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Wassim Haddad cc: int-area@ietf.org, intarea-chairs@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> Message-ID: References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="-137064504-2084682781-1504447589=:29378" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 03 Sep 2017 14:06:35 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. ---137064504-2084682781-1504447589=:29378 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8BIT On Fri, 1 Sep 2017, Wassim Haddad wrote: > Dear all, > > Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we would like to start a WG adoption call for draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 on "Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data”: > > https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.txt > > Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is September 18th. I would like to see this document adopted as WG document. I find PVDs to be of very high interest and usefullnes. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se ---137064504-2084682781-1504447589=:29378-- From nobody Mon Sep 4 01:22:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B745C1321AA; Mon, 4 Sep 2017 01:22:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.031 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.031 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=1.989, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=microsoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_DB6PR83MB0197DF5DC20ED7090A1332D590910DB6PR83MB0197EURP_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: microsoft.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 04 Sep 2017 08:22:11.4953 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 72f988bf-86f1-41af-91ab-2d7cd011db47 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB6PR83MB0213 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 08:22:18 -0000 --_000_DB6PR83MB0197DF5DC20ED7090A1332D590910DB6PR83MB0197EURP_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: Tim Chown In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 4 Sep 2017 09:30:39 +0100 Cc: Ted Lemon , Wassim Haddad , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-ID: References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> To: Marcus Keane X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-smtpf-Report: sid=y839Ui153240240600; tid=y839Ui15324024069K; client=relay,forged,no_ptr,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=5:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: v848Uiaf009949 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Sep 2017 08:31:05 -0000 Hi, I also support this work, building on the foundations of RFC7556. Tim > On 4 Sep 2017, at 09:22, Marcus Keane = wrote: >=20 > I agree. Personally, I think it could be particularly useful for = larger enterprises. > Marcus > =20 > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ted = Lemon > Sent: 02 September 2017 01:12 > To: Wassim Haddad > Cc: int-area@ietf.org; intarea-chairs@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning = Domain Names and Data > =20 > I would like to see this work adopted. This has the potential to be = very useful for multi-homed sites. > =20 > On Fri, Sep 1, 2017 at 4:14 PM, Wassim Haddad = wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we = would like to start a WG adoption call for = draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 on "Discovering = Provisioning Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D: >=20 > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from = "na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com" claiming to = behttps://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.tx= t >=20 > Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is = September 18th. >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Wassim & Juan Carlos >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from = "na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com" claiming to = behttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Wed Sep 6 04:06:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 107541323A3; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 04:06:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -14.521 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-14.521 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-cpUCyQppMO; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 04:06:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com [173.37.86.80]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 38A7113271F; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 04:06:32 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1286; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1504695992; x=1505905592; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-id:content-transfer-encoding: mime-version; bh=8zsucMBIBA7mv9pid9aD8KCnqnyQ1KlOxhOrTB2dgJs=; b=QUZofNLll+cE6gpFDi+giXQ5X2vtOvVQDS3gdVlWgplL2hGqe3A65+aV lFVzVGdLFxTtkd6sqWYY2yKlaPlsGWmkxYEGtNYF+UGVm2MngkzZ5swN6 ueTpOSJ9gxayP2vbMV0rV4uBYC4NR0+F50xVnsrmRy0AzAez8QbgDTrK9 Y=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0DIAADB1a9Z/4MNJK1eGQEBAQEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBBwEBAQEBg1pkgRUHg3CKIZAhmBkOggQKGA2FGQIahCE/GAECAQEBAQEBAWs?= =?us-ascii?q?ohRkCAQMBARsGEToLEAIBCBoCJgICAiULFRACBAENBYoxEK8igieLNwEBAQEBA?= =?us-ascii?q?QEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBARgFgQ2CHYICgU6CDoJ9hD1PgnwwgjEFoHQClE+CE4V?= =?us-ascii?q?nineUfgIRGQGBOAEfOIENdxVJEgGHCHYBiRWBDwEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.41,483,1498521600"; d="scan'208";a="289744712" Received: from alln-core-1.cisco.com ([173.36.13.131]) by rcdn-iport-9.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA; 06 Sep 2017 11:06:31 +0000 Received: from XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (xch-rtp-014.cisco.com [64.101.220.154]) by alln-core-1.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id v86B6VrP013685 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 6 Sep 2017 11:06:31 GMT Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com (64.101.220.155) by XCH-RTP-014.cisco.com (64.101.220.154) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1263.5; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 07:06:30 -0400 Received: from xch-rtp-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) by XCH-RTP-015.cisco.com ([64.101.220.155]) with mapi id 15.00.1263.000; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 07:06:30 -0400 From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" To: Wassim Haddad , "int-area@ietf.org" CC: "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data Thread-Index: AQHTI173JP8b2Vaqf0igf0R0DE1Bp6KoHjkA Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 11:06:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.1e.0.170107 x-ms-exchange-messagesentrepresentingtype: 1 x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.228.34.194] Content-Type: text/plain; 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SRVR:AM5EUR02HT043; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 07 Sep 2017 16:21:10.2806 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR02HT043 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] FW: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 16:21:14 -0000 -----Original Message----- From: Khaled Omar=20 Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 2:26 PM To: 'Volker Tanger' Subject: RE: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 Hi V.Tanger, >>>> 3. An alternative form that is sometimes more convenient when dealing with a mixed environment of IPv4 and IPv6 nodes is x:x:x:x:x:x:d.d.d.d, where the 'x's are the hexadecimal values of the six high-order 16-bit pieces of the address, and the 'd's are the= decimal values of the four low-order 8-bit pieces of the address (standard IPv4 representation). Examples: 0:0:0:0:0:0:13.1.68.3 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:129.144.52.38 or in compressed form: ::13.1.68.3 ::FFFF:129.144.52.38 This is not the idea of IPv10, IPv10 means the source address can be IPv4 a= nd the destination address can be IPv6 and vice versa, this is not mapping = as mentioned in RFC4291. =20 Best regards, Khaled Omar -----Original Message----- From: Volker Tanger [mailto:volker.tanger@wyae.de]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 1:19 PM To: eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com Subject: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 Greetings! I read your suggested IPv10 at https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omar-ipv10-06.html In RfC 4291 (https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4291.txt) section 2.5.5. there alr= eady is a mechanism to directly map IPv4 adresses into IPv6. This already e= nables 4-4/6-6/6-4/4-6 adressing/rewriting. Maybe you could elaborate on why IPv10 is superiour, especially as the dire= ct mapping of IPv4 into IPv6 as described in RfC4291 has the advantage that= the stack already is implemented, mapping on 4-6 / 6-4 gateways is dead si= mple and that it does not need a 3rd packet parser stack? Thanks a lot! Volker Tanger --=20 Volker Tanger http://www.wyae.de/volker.tanger/ -------------------------------------------------- volker.tanger@wyae.de PGP Fingerprint 378A 7DA7 4F20 C2F3 5BCC 8340 7424 6122 BB83 B8CB From nobody Thu Sep 7 10:58:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15F4A126DD9 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:58:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jLQfLuKqYOtp for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 469F01204DA for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:58:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 88665B1; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 19:58:47 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1504807127; bh=TGHkivFKuTN+Wm5eKfNrRTlT1zgaArzciOnaZNkmLZg=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=k6+0WjyAD5K453f1L+3wHWqfiwBcRICmZVF43l+0GdhoITXGSrlhwDUAUaxUI1dn7 LsGJV8xuUitJIynsLlb4Kbm94J9YPBGrMQFrL5pbx8qJIRl6zcBDE4u3GmR/lz8LBq FONxzaKDQlsIbzSmlHi3vGB82KSn65XVENoJjbes= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F56AF; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 19:58:47 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 19:58:47 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Khaled Omar cc: int-area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <97091e0ca77b89fd78e73f705f883c30@wyae.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 17:58:51 -0000 When are you going to learn not to forward private email to public lists? Do you have the Volker Tangers permission to submit this text to the IETF? On Thu, 7 Sep 2017, Khaled Omar wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Khaled Omar > Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 2:26 PM > To: 'Volker Tanger' > Subject: RE: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 > > Hi V.Tanger, > >>>>> 3. An alternative form that is sometimes more convenient when dealing > with a mixed environment of IPv4 and IPv6 nodes is > x:x:x:x:x:x:d.d.d.d, where the 'x's are the hexadecimal values of > the six high-order 16-bit pieces of the address, and the 'd's are the decimal values of the four low-order 8-bit pieces of the > address (standard IPv4 representation). Examples: > > 0:0:0:0:0:0:13.1.68.3 > > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:129.144.52.38 > > or in compressed form: > > ::13.1.68.3 > > ::FFFF:129.144.52.38 > > This is not the idea of IPv10, IPv10 means the source address can be IPv4 and the destination address can be IPv6 and vice versa, this is not mapping as mentioned in RFC4291. > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Volker Tanger [mailto:volker.tanger@wyae.de] > Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 1:19 PM > To: eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com > Subject: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 > > Greetings! > > I read your suggested IPv10 at > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omar-ipv10-06.html > > In RfC 4291 (https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4291.txt) section 2.5.5. there already is a mechanism to directly map IPv4 adresses into IPv6. This already enables 4-4/6-6/6-4/4-6 adressing/rewriting. > > Maybe you could elaborate on why IPv10 is superiour, especially as the direct mapping of IPv4 into IPv6 as described in RfC4291 has the advantage that the stack already is implemented, mapping on 4-6 / 6-4 gateways is dead simple and that it does not need a 3rd packet parser stack? > > Thanks a lot! > > Volker Tanger > > > -- > > Volker Tanger http://www.wyae.de/volker.tanger/ > -------------------------------------------------- > volker.tanger@wyae.de PGP Fingerprint > 378A 7DA7 4F20 C2F3 5BCC 8340 7424 6122 BB83 B8CB > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Thu Sep 7 11:27:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05BC132D40 for ; 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This is for letting others know so no one will discuss the same topic again= , I've received the same comments many times before. > Do you have the Volker Tangers permission to submit this text to the IETF= ? This email was for the int-area mailing list not for the IETF mailing list. A question for you, why you keep talking with someone else's tongue? He can= tell me this and then I will discuss that with him. regards, Khaled Omar -----Original Message----- From: Mikael Abrahamsson [mailto:swmike@swm.pp.se]=20 Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 7:59 PM To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in= RfC4291 When are you going to learn not to forward private email to public lists? Do you have the Volker Tangers permission to submit this text to the IETF? On Thu, 7 Sep 2017, Khaled Omar wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Khaled Omar > Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 2:26 PM > To: 'Volker Tanger' > Subject: RE: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 > > Hi V.Tanger, > >>>>> 3. An alternative form that is sometimes more convenient when dealing > with a mixed environment of IPv4 and IPv6 nodes is > x:x:x:x:x:x:d.d.d.d, where the 'x's are the hexadecimal values of > the six high-order 16-bit pieces of the address, and the 'd's are th= e decimal values of the four low-order 8-bit pieces of the > address (standard IPv4 representation). Examples: > > 0:0:0:0:0:0:13.1.68.3 > > 0:0:0:0:0:FFFF:129.144.52.38 > > or in compressed form: > > ::13.1.68.3 > > ::FFFF:129.144.52.38 > > This is not the idea of IPv10, IPv10 means the source address can be IPv4= and the destination address can be IPv6 and vice versa, this is not mappin= g as mentioned in RFC4291. > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Volker Tanger [mailto:volker.tanger@wyae.de] > Sent: Thursday, September 7, 2017 1:19 PM > To: eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com > Subject: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 > > Greetings! > > I read your suggested IPv10 at > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-omar-ipv10-06.html > > In RfC 4291 (https://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4291.txt) section 2.5.5. there a= lready is a mechanism to directly map IPv4 adresses into IPv6. This already= enables 4-4/6-6/6-4/4-6 adressing/rewriting. > > Maybe you could elaborate on why IPv10 is superiour, especially as the di= rect mapping of IPv4 into IPv6 as described in RfC4291 has the advantage th= at the stack already is implemented, mapping on 4-6 / 6-4 gateways is dead = simple and that it does not need a 3rd packet parser stack? > > Thanks a lot! > > Volker Tanger > > > --=20 > > Volker Tanger http://www.wyae.de/volker.tanger/ > -------------------------------------------------- > volker.tanger@wyae.de PGP Fingerprint > 378A 7DA7 4F20 C2F3 5BCC 8340 7424 6122 BB83 B8CB > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > --=20 Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Mon Sep 11 13:54:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C2D5B132F35; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:54:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.145 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.145 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ie3N3Jkdb18W; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:54:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092069087.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.69.87]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A08AB132F3A; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 13:54:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=zSkvzoIkKK7rfNBxpp0zrZ4Mm/qu3IOf22kKYUDzxhU=; b=uzEc3qKVOoShqkB5U92EHLzxFhBTPD85vt8NkXIsatQJ1MREAjxzSjJcIFO7DZYOoIxhWvq00QCa1n+Erzqqme/tHFIw1q1g4I89NbEVyx36PF4BOOfWpCoxtWZtFTQZNFRnQwWgZsI4491fK08SRoN0TcPSdIL4AZZHTWy0HO7VzCqdFwIccnPZh/ZZSZOYVs5pQzmXVS27W0t9oSuRBptsMzcWHK1HjCIFT/mqeQvDwE6yO8pXvReQ8laM0o90hegDYvVGkkdZ1Q3G3hmJgGWVwqeQaf+Ukf01FsV7JyiYKeDJzu2ayUmpv0gVDFOwgcie7Z0UiMtT39aGUjrUxg== Received: from AM5EUR02FT014.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.8.51) by AM5EUR02HT059.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.9.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.13.11; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:53:58 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.8.57) by AM5EUR02FT014.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.8.175) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.13.11 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:53:58 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0035.021; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:53:58 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: int-area CC: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs Thread-Topic: IPv10. Thread-Index: AdMrPxUZfrAz5Q2ZSaynM5P9f9plVg== Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:53:58 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:7283775380A3166CA2B48A47E327CFB74BB92658FF3B603063D50EE7D9F1E4BA; UpperCasedChecksum:D9A3DCF97BD1638D1621A6F892A84EC7DD1447BF883CDFDE4F6BDF3F86E7FFDC; SizeAsReceived:6849; Count:44 x-tmn: [wlYfbWIOAg56JYDsDSX+oPj/rDRsJZ3Q] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR02HT059; 6:Ls/NZN8iyUcxsuI8HM/D+HsuiY1LXzz9D/0SYO6GY84dHR/CMgmHBkxGzTgISEvyvuqbmpLMmGQiqHXNeMfp27dhhxVgfGNNQxRbH2sbX5nEYcBuMdsRkfBL10/BHVTLu/5LSC7Gr6fiX/Ig8NHigXYVbzDPGzp29peg/i10a0KsthxYObySFyPY5Loc+t29EsbUn9xLxhoxBlBzcP7+5LSa+ZCceL2ckiYcxNV6akuBoivVdphikl4oy5tXNlJQJjhm4BoXs/hVK0AHmXuc8DbwCQaDozvWKzh7BXiPWHgZNSXuWfNbNhJXesYJ58rIBPbLv39krzEgTFXAC8v4HQ==; 5:jWq4tLonKuWcaqmvy1oyDIzuwb9oqUaYr/YN5DBhzgXyXyX832SyN5MdKiA/hDRkKP3Wlk9zWZLlrCypEN5ZHU0ge/Iw1o4rowbywEYPA1IRPTDuQk5OZSU7bAS6Z6ZWpDOElcVRQ2+7eQA/XSy7fA==; 24:q0zGQ/0Nm0vlfwyHscp58BihVFVq1GajsjZbQH5+t3u2Zzoavh5rFrwNfHbmo9gESEypjhFEURU7khA/Qlaz3JARrFKhlj8iXhXG7fjLTfM=; 7:x4A5/x07nrCb1+NtlXMJM93mI0fPBIVBhTG6S0pHrnwc4FSW3RMVLrWb9WwCLemeRCJO2QOiJCmIw35wbPYBjh7Ule0J9BBbY+MtQhd86D8UnpEsy0t6GnaBlY45kKrTGJQExQexs287drTZL8B/iTQz3KXv8C5w8qeWbip8q7kDJQ08GyNXpLq3rGhxVMhfdo8zKxRsV0ij7hOhzzRdUPGaIbkncBn6oqz+b8Jzsck= x-incomingheadercount: 44 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: dacc630f-152a-4168-699b-08d4f9573963 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(300000500095)(300135000095)(300000501095)(300135300095)(22001)(300000502095)(300135100095)(300000503095)(300135400095)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045)(300000504095)(300135200095)(300000505095)(300135600095)(300000506095)(300135500095); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT059; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM5EUR02HT059: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(100405760836317)(21748063052155); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT059; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT059; x-forefront-prvs: 04270EF89C x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR02HT059; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB224151E42FC72E9BC59A04E8BD680AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 11 Sep 2017 20:53:58.5901 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR02HT059 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:54:06 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB224151E42FC72E9BC59A04E8BD680AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the discussio= n phase has passed. I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D, but= still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my hands. I don't know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is responsibl= e for its final decision, either still some work to be done for adoption or= start publishing the I-D. Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a short time = for the presentation and we may face another remote technical problem as oc= curred at IETF 98. Best regards, Khaled Omar --_000_AM4PR0401MB224151E42FC72E9BC59A04E8BD680AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda= , I think the discussion phase has passed.

 

I would like thank everyone who participated or revi= ewed the IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decisio= n is out of my hands.

 

I don’t know how consensus be calculated at th= e IETF and whom is responsible for its final decision, either still some wo= rk to be done for adoption or start publishing the I-D.

 

Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as= there is a short time for the presentation and we may face another remote = technical problem as occurred at IETF 98.

 

Best regards,

 

Khaled Omar

 

 

 

--_000_AM4PR0401MB224151E42FC72E9BC59A04E8BD680AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 16:20:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2413413213D; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:19:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bviWsWWAXxUM; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x233.google.com (mail-yw0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91773127005; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:19:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x233.google.com with SMTP id q80so24875896ywg.2; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:19:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=7ejVRY0cHQqQ0gYvtKWfbtwUvrVbRo2JeaEAAe3nN2k=; b=EIhZkZMg9ecI4jJ46+NDjLGepnEJTsD/UHkzPDlJmna3jYoKxcl0ENKM5+eZxTLfRt Y4pNBkx8f24LloXP3Gn7oWsN+lfJnJVUl7B0W0j+Ec/nI0kzGOOdNTHOx61tVp1LqDqT vv7AOK+hA3DcSymiRFLQc4iDj8HqFDiCGQi0tkJPq1S4f+u6dQTOh/5ONBBvdYgY1zC/ FtpyxOeVBbg9SL4OkaGwl4tBLQLbgdXFYEKp/S/cOgctZEl/EiMazO6zOuf5abeFIZQL 2yREjEmwbNFMnwcBMSiDist7fJ68j8GkWHAe+UFs2a8dtYSj5jAjTQIWm+LF8Vz0ZUX1 jzAg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=7ejVRY0cHQqQ0gYvtKWfbtwUvrVbRo2JeaEAAe3nN2k=; b=sqBRiL+Z2D5vt7ovYA+2ud59NFNJBwvqXu00ixSFXILfR4as5bbvCgd6mox87sjN+Z GQ0iOdOmJXo1sxjON7Beu6xQR5/tAzHsMBYtRRHLn6sGoRJEbfRMkz6bdHvTBTDN+8fc ewZQZxm/zKeweYzD7ZjG1TL564+Gb/ZkSifdV7o1C+PAR/G0Ej8G0wSalp0GReJSq2g6 Le/ZAA6q3m8d0x2XL7J1I4VMcnPZAv/j11mi2ElYHeV/A5bpsvmzvFFROQnfswAGHdXd KBWfXxY3TurHzkbYijr78p9eaXGKqIJg7fc/hBoOIGMrM7OncdwS5UmV+dLqXMRnQ8WW FyXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUiuByrdZTvDSQyHRYMoSMFotALPRovfFUUss2Mu87iCC2/4N1FQ KQNkNo3nviS4IA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5rCAMDfDqR3R4Mig62KMCfzu6S3OMr1As04qLUyTbOkZVgil9RY7nmdFXae90oc8XfIr5N4g== X-Received: by 10.129.112.85 with SMTP id l82mr10736243ywc.191.1505171996753; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:19:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.12] (45-19-110-76.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. [45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 205sm3368169ywz.68.2017.09.11.16.19.55 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 11 Sep 2017 16:19:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Suresh Krishnan Message-Id: <428F47BE-3087-48CE-AF08-FCFF733D60B0@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_36E89DD7-AB69-4B85-A4EC-8BC2EE4E9812" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 19:19:55 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: int-area , intarea-ads , intarea-chairs To: Khaled Omar References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2017 23:19:59 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_36E89DD7-AB69-4B85-A4EC-8BC2EE4E9812 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Khaled, > On Sep 11, 2017, at 4:53 PM, Khaled Omar = wrote: >=20 > Hi all, > =20 > Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the = discussion phase has passed. > =20 > I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 = I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of = my hands. Not sure what you mean here. The work to be done is certainly (and = entirely) in your hands, as it is your individual draft. You have = received a lot of excellent and useful feedback regarding your proposal = on this list. It is up to you to address those comments and publish new = version(s) of your draft if you have an intent to progress it further. I = have not seen this done yet. > =20 > I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom = is responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be done = for adoption or start publishing the I-D. The consensus in the IETF based on discussions both at face-to-face = meetings and ultimately on the mailing list.=20 > =20 > Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a short = time for the presentation and we may face another remote technical = problem as occurred at IETF 98. Right. Thanks Suresh --Apple-Mail=_36E89DD7-AB69-4B85-A4EC-8BC2EE4E9812 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Khaled,

On Sep 11, 2017, at 4:53 PM, = Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi all,
 
Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think = the discussion phase has passed.
 
I would like thank everyone who = participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to = be done and the decision is out of my hands.

Not = sure what you mean here. The work to be done is certainly (and entirely) = in your hands, as it is your individual draft. You have received a lot = of excellent and useful feedback regarding your proposal on this list. = It is up to you to address those comments and publish new version(s) of = your draft if you have an intent to progress it further. I have not seen = this done yet.

 
I don=E2=80= =99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is = responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be done = for adoption or start publishing the = I-D.

The = consensus in the IETF based on discussions both at face-to-face meetings = and ultimately on the mailing list. 

 
Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is = a short time for the presentation and we may face another remote = technical problem as occurred at IETF 98.

Right.

Thanks
Suresh

= --Apple-Mail=_36E89DD7-AB69-4B85-A4EC-8BC2EE4E9812-- From nobody Mon Sep 11 20:29:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB7BA1329F9 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:29:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YJaT-xLzJKf4 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BED41321A6 for ; Mon, 11 Sep 2017 20:29:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2F007AF; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:29:28 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1505186968; bh=mldUxZVIImc3qQFsovTP5iuhnPUnqW7zg6tgHbqkJbY=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=cLtuABFjMG0TS4vZSPiOD/Av8pWLWnx5W1wBWpPqhR/LQvSOviZSA2fI0Md5P0lQr 3+DHFIOMXVqx1b2F/TfroGZraCBocp1dTeU5XAAJ05sZYQSfKohTwk7J7w1NIi7Kwa EP+s34mGIkgyjIZAVTnA4HmVAn1neIPTTBGq9ilw= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15AE084; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:29:28 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 05:29:28 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Khaled Omar cc: int-area In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <97091e0ca77b89fd78e73f705f883c30@wyae.de> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: FW: The idea behind IPv10 is already implemented in RfC4291 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 03:29:33 -0000 On Thu, 7 Sep 2017, Khaled Omar wrote: >> When are you going to learn not to forward private email to public lists? > > This is for letting others know so no one will discuss the same topic again, I've received the same comments many times before. Then you write your own text on this subject without forwarding others text. >> Do you have the Volker Tangers permission to submit this text to the IETF? > > This email was for the int-area mailing list not for the IETF mailing list. int-area@ietf.org is an IETF mailing list. All email sent to any IETF mailing list is an IETF contribution. > A question for you, why you keep talking with someone else's tongue? He can tell me this and then I will discuss that with him. Because if I ever sent you an email directly I might not want it submitted to the IETF without my permission. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Tue Sep 12 06:08:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5895132F7A for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 06:07:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qw9rEop_jIfS for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 06:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from atl4mhob17.registeredsite.com (atl4mhob17.registeredsite.com [209.17.115.110]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 964E7132153 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 06:07:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.211]) by atl4mhob17.registeredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v8CD7uvB002830 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:07:56 -0400 Received: (qmail 9170 invoked by uid 0); 12 Sep 2017 13:07:56 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 68.100.68.25 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.160?) (lee@asgard.org@68.100.68.25) by 0 with ESMTPA; 12 Sep 2017 13:07:56 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.2.170228 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 09:07:52 -0400 From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar , int-area Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3588052077_11997981" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:07:59 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3588052077_11997981 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). If there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many people willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m = not an AD, but I would question one who thought there was consensus support for IPv10. If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is worth working on. If you have received private statemetns of support, those peopl= e need to send messages to the list. Lee From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM To: int-area Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. > Hi all, > =20 > Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the discuss= ion > phase has passed. > =20 > I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D, b= ut > still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my hands. > =20 > I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is respon= sible > for its final decision, either still some work to be done for adoption or > start publishing the I-D. > =20 > Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a short tim= e for > the presentation and we may face another remote technical problem as occu= rred > at IETF 98.=20 > =20 > Best regards, > =20 > Khaled Omar > =20 > =20 > =20 > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --B_3588052077_11997981 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
What evidence do you see that= there is consensus support for this?
For an IETF document, it sho= uld get adopted by a working group (WG). If there is no existing WG which co= uld include this in its charter, you might need to create a WG; Area Directo= rs (ADs) would want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and = many people willing to work on it. I’m not an AD, but I would question= one who thought there was consensus support for IPv10.

=
If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. The= re can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is wo= rth working on. If you have received private statemetns of support, those pe= ople need to send messages to the list. 

Lee


From: = Int-area <int-area-bounces@iet= f.org> on behalf of Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM
To: int-area <= int-area@ietf.org>
Cc: inta= rea-ads <intarea-ads@ietf.org&g= t;, intarea-chairs <intarea-chai= rs@ietf.org>
Subject: [Int-= area] IPv10.

Hi all,

 

Is IPv10 sti= ll not considered on your list of agenda, I think the discussion phase has p= assed.

 

I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I= -D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my ha= nds.

 

I don’t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is= responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be done for a= doption or start publishing the I-D.

 

Waiting for the coming meeting is not = a good idea as there is a short time for the presentation and we may face an= other remote technical problem as occurred at IETF 98.

 

Best regards,

 

Khaled Omar

 =

 

 

_______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/int-area
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[209.17.115.50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 752371326DF for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:16:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mailpod.hostingplatform.com ([10.30.71.211]) by atl4mhob12.registeredsite.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id v8CEGtWO023007 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 10:16:55 -0400 Received: (qmail 22765 invoked by uid 0); 12 Sep 2017 14:16:55 -0000 X-TCPREMOTEIP: 72.221.14.181 X-Authenticated-UID: lee@asgard.org Received: from unknown (HELO ?192.168.1.160?) (lee@asgard.org@72.221.14.181) by 0 with ESMTPA; 12 Sep 2017 14:16:54 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.2.170228 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 10:16:51 -0400 From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar CC: int-area Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3588056214_12105154" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 14:17:06 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3588056214_12105154 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable From: Khaled Omar Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard Cc: int-area Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. > After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or priva= tely > the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep updating the I-D = to make > it more clear for other people reading the draft for the 1st time. > =20 > If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There > can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is worth = working > on. If you have received private statements of support, those people need= to > send messages to the list. > =20 > Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is a wg f= or > IPv10 or not. There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are people interested in form= ing a working group. Lee > =20 > =20 >=20 > From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM > To: Khaled Omar; int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > =20 >=20 > What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? >=20 > For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). If t= here > is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you might need= to > create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would want to see that there was broad > support for the effort, and many people willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not = an AD, > but I would question one who thought there was consensus support for IPv1= 0. >=20 > =20 >=20 > If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There > can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is worth = working > on. If you have received private statemetns of support, those people need= to > send messages to the list. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Lee >=20 > =20 >=20 > =20 >=20 > From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar > > Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM > To: int-area > Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs > > Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 > =20 >>=20 >> Hi all, >> =20 >> Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the discus= sion >> phase has passed. >> =20 >> I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D, = but >> still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my hands. >> =20 >> I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is respo= nsible >> for its final decision, either still some work to be done for adoption o= r >> start publishing the I-D. >> =20 >> Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a short ti= me >> for the presentation and we may face another remote technical problem as >> occurred at IETF 98. >> =20 >> Best regards, >> =20 >> Khaled Omar >> =20 >> =20 >> =20 >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --B_3588056214_12105154 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable


From: Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM
To: Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org>
Cc: int-area <int-area@ietf.org>= ;
Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10.

<= meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Word 15 (filtered medium)">

After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or p= rivately the discussion stops at this point, that’s why I keep updatin= g the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the draft for the 1st time.

 

If there are people who want to work on= IPv10, they need to say so. There can’t be consensus if only one or t= wo people think a document is worth working on. If you have received private= statements of support, those people need to send messages to the list.

=  

Yes,= they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is a wg for IPv1= 0 or not.


There won’t be a working group unless there are people interested in= forming a working group.

Lee

<= span id=3D"OLK_SRC_BODY_SECTION">

<= /span>

 <= /o:p>

=  

From: Lee Howa= rd [mailto:lee@asgard.org]
Sent:<= /b> Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM
To: Khaled Omar; int-area<= br>Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.

 

What evidence do you see that there is consensus s= upport for this?

For an IETF document, it should get ado= pted by a working group (WG). If there is no existing WG which could include= this in its charter, you might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) wo= uld want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many people w= illing to work on it. I’m not an AD, but I would question one who thou= ght there was consensus support for IPv10.

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal"> 

If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to sa= y so. There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a docum= ent is worth working on. If you have received private statemetns of support, those people need to send messages to the list. 

 

Lee

<= p class=3D"MsoNormal"> 

 

<= b>From: Int-a= rea <int-area-bounces@ietf.org= > on behalf of Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, September= 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM
To: int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
Cc: intarea-ads <intarea-ads@ietf.org>, intarea-chairs <intarea-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: [Int-area] IPv10.

 =

Hi all,

 

Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the discus= sion phase has passed.

 

I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the I= Pv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of= my hands.

 

I don’t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is res= ponsible for its final decision, either still some work to be done for adopt= ion or start publishing the I-D.

<= span style=3D"color:black"> 

Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as= there is a short time for the presentation and we may face another remote t= echnical problem as occurred at IETF 98.

 =

Best re= gards,

&= nbsp;

Kh= aled Omar

 

 

=  

_______________________________________________ = Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

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header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CndrQ_cnTaFJ for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:31:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D03C13305B for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:31:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1505226687; x=1505831487; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=mDiMXVSFgbOLdqZakTTzARFlv MlSo076fKntXGRNSpY=; b=M14SR4q24IhB9bCkZIPVJdv5JSuGDg1MJA2BkWOG0 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int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 22:31:10 +0800 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: int-area Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 14:31:39 -0000 So, you expect that we change the rules for you, or we should change them f= or everybody? Rules have been defined by the community for a good reason. If we change the rules for everybody, then you should expect thousands of W= Gs being created every other day, with no consensus, lot of community time = lost and nobody paying attention to the real work, so we could shutdown IET= F. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 22:25 Para: Lee Howard CC: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know who is= interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. From: Lee Howard=20 To: Khaled Omar=20 CC: int-area=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Khaled Omar Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard Cc: int-area Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 >After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or pr= ivately the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep updat= ing the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the draft for > the 1st time. >=20 >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. Th= ere can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document i= s worth working on. If you have received private statements > of support, those people need to send messages to the list. >=20 >Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is a w= g for IPv10 or not. > > > =20 =20 There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are people interest= ed in forming a working group. =20 =20 Lee =20 =20 > >=20 > >=20 >From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] > >Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM >To: Khaled Omar; int-area >Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > >=20 >What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? > >For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). I= f there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you migh= t need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would > want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many peo= ple willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would question one = who thought there was consensus support for IPv10. > >=20 > >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. Th= ere can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document i= s worth working on. If you have received private statemetns > of support, those people need to send messages to the list.=20 > >=20 > >Lee > >=20 > >=20 > >From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar >Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM >To: int-area >Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs >Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. > >=20 > >>Hi all, >>=20 >>Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the dis= cussion phase has passed. >>=20 >>I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-= D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my ha= nds. >>=20 >>I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom= is responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be done f= or adoption or start publishing the I-D. >>=20 >>Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a short= time for the presentation and we may face another remote technical problem= as occurred at IETF 98. >> >>=20 >>Best regards, >>=20 >>Khaled Omar >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list >>Int-area@ietf.org=20 >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 > > > =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the i= ndividual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if p= artially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be cons= idered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware t= hat any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this in= formation, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibi= ted, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the origin= al sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From nobody Tue Sep 12 07:35:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 16114132332 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:35:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CqcoNKR7Zr_o for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pf0-x231.google.com (mail-pf0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c00::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B34C71326ED for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:35:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pf0-x231.google.com with SMTP id y29so18213271pff.0 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:35:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=xq/LLjG2bVe4QswpFt1FX9ZhSSabHuYFdkR3pcHef/Q=; b=WDOSuhJNgFEMLRBEXmLI9kx0JbB39MelJhPQyM4zwVeUvX+2t2Nw7vbnXR5L3hU/0n AWlUzqZiTANo9irH6at7Q+QM/a+zxzpdaSBg7mnwJZ2vtvMTjX8fWUzYPlFW/4BIT+et 5zuEV6RrAxs1n9C7UJraFLiFOvXQqfXY4U7OUwsUG73f2Rg1nCZ8kKTpNmbtFGHRNAu8 +YY9x0GElg85P3rEShgLZ/zPjTaEkbs7tnixk2nV/i1p0JynsP6MLbRGFQR9bC5OYtxl Key9nKaiKZBdjCUwRQojTjZzQwLJv0PLPeZ9DTUUoX0kFZJiDWayOa6n91w1LnXFI2rd NLRA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=xq/LLjG2bVe4QswpFt1FX9ZhSSabHuYFdkR3pcHef/Q=; b=XOh4qPRq69weNKfZmnrmqZhI91bdNcnSqpUmCqzpsRqt/Qxqt6EEGSOJzK2cBGKDKP yjZHIKJOClZ2g8Mjsth21v8NLEJGr62MKpWdprlnoKiczPvPZckyodi0BcHs6SZ2Fi/n XKNPd8lQFx82SGTOFrvNs9LgYGcA3r8kWuVP+9yVwbjFBzTHv/+jhH5olNZxlxEw6BLD vtIpxhON858vYPHpqkWj76+c5dWwpGNlpkyUTuHVZ5gwNvC12lqEzfLR1fBeqNsUHNs6 KH3ou/6kBiuYoEpgBfXQD9o6Ct/FOGjNsljOekEOKQK8ho4VAp8exOgiRvNZx8lFqDeA iItA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgB8+j4E3k+UtRYccksOuq8J1/FeDKSPPA+WtEZq94xS3ps/WXO I/VuoYEU49tT4nE3j+roPzPdnsS3WNnO X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb4jvThLeNzuD7T5VYFKHux53wnHgFox1OSvZwOqSIftmvSRpvq2IzpVvtij48ztc5CqluttxxeynYKxePnfc10= X-Received: by 10.101.73.4 with SMTP id p4mr14865956pgs.215.1505226945103; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:35:45 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.100.181.199 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:35:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.100.181.199 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 07:35:44 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: Suresh Krishnan Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 10:35:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area , Lee Howard Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="089e082209c05e8f5d0558fef5ef" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 14:35:48 -0000 --089e082209c05e8f5d0558fef5ef Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Khaled, No. That is not how things work. Please take a look at RFC2418 for more details on how IETF working groups operate. Specifically look at Section 2.1 regarding some of the criteria for wg formation. As of now I don't see the IPv10 proposal meeting many (if any) of those criteria. Regards Suresh On Sep 12, 2017 10:25 AM, "Khaled Omar" wrote= : > We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know who is > interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. > > Khaled Omar > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > From: Lee Howard > To: Khaled Omar > CC: int-area > > > > > From: Khaled Omar > Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM > To: Lee Howard > Cc: int-area > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. > > After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or > privately the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep u= pdating > the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the draft for the = 1 > st time. > > > > If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There > can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is = worth > working on. If you have received private statements of support, those > people need to send messages to the list. > > > > Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is a wg > for IPv10 or not. > > > There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are people interested= in > forming a working group. > > Lee > > > > > > *From:* Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org ] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM > *To:* Khaled Omar; int-area > *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > > What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? > > For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). If > there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you migh= t > need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would want to see that there wa= s > broad support for the effort, and many people willing to work on it. I=E2= =80=99m > not an AD, but I would question one who thought there was consensus suppo= rt > for IPv10. > > > > If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There > can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is = worth > working on. If you have received private statemetns of support, those > people need to send messages to the list. > > > > Lee > > > > > > *From: *Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar < > eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> > *Date: *Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM > *To: *int-area > *Cc: *intarea-ads , intarea-chairs < > intarea-chairs@ietf.org> > *Subject: *[Int-area] IPv10. > > > > Hi all, > > > > Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the > discussion phase has passed. > > > > I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D, > but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my han= ds. > > > > I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is > responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be done for > adoption or start publishing the I-D. > > > > Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a short tim= e > for the presentation and we may face another remote technical problem as > occurred at IETF 98. > > > > Best regards, > > > > Khaled Omar > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > --089e082209c05e8f5d0558fef5ef Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Khaled,
=C2=A0 No. That is not how th= ings work. Please take a look at RFC2418 for more details on how IETF worki= ng groups operate. Specifically look at Section 2.1 regarding some of the c= riteria for wg formation. As of now I don't see the IPv10 proposal meet= ing many (if any) of those criteria.=C2=A0

Regards
Suresh=C2=A0
<= div class=3D"gmail_extra">
On Sep 12, 2017 10= :25 AM, "Khaled Omar" <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
=
We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know who is int= erested to work on the IPv10 I-D.

Khaled Omar


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.
From: Lee Howard
To: Khaled Omar
CC: int-area




From: Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail= .com>
Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 a= t 9:17 AM
To: Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org>
Cc: int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10.

After answering questi= ons of people who send me e-mails publicly or privately the discussion stop= s at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep updating the I-D to make it more= clear for other people reading the draft for the 1st time.

=C2=A0

If ther= e are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There can=E2= =80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is worth wo= rking on. If you have received private statements of support, those people need to send messages to the list.<= /span>

= =C2=A0

Yes, they have to send= to the list but some are asking if there is a wg for IPv10 or not.<= /p>


There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are people interes= ted in forming a working group.

Lee

<= /p>

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org]
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM
To: Khaled Omar; int-area
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.

=C2=A0

What ev= idence do you see that there is consensus support for this?

For an = IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). If there is n= o existing WG which could include this in its charter, you might need to cr= eate a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many people w= illing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would question one who t= hought there was consensus support for IPv10.

= =C2=A0

If ther= e are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There can=E2= =80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is worth wo= rking on. If you have received private statemetns of support, those people need to send messages to the list.=C2=A0

= =C2=A0

Lee<= /u>

= =C2=A0

= =C2=A0

From: Int-area <int-area-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Kha= led Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM
To: int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
Cc: intarea-ads <intarea-ads@ietf.org>, intarea-chairs <intarea-chairs@ietf.org&= gt;
Subject: [Int-area] IPv10.

= =C2=A0

Hi all,

=C2=A0

Is IPv10 still not consi= dered on your list of agenda, I think the discussion phase has passed.

=C2=A0

I would like thank every= one who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of wor= k to be done and the decision is out of my hands.

=C2=A0

I don=E2=80=99t know how= consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is responsible for its final = decision, either still some work to be done for adoption or start publishin= g the I-D.

=C2=A0

Waiting for the coming m= eeting is not a good idea as there is a short time for the presentation and= we may face another remote technical problem as occurred at IETF 98.

=C2=A0

Best regards,<= /u>

=C2=A0

Khaled Omar

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______= ________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area


_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

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dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bNV2ltXnGimH for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 10:09:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3EBA2133035 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 10:09:08 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1505236144; x=1505840944; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=5Nu9XtZQ3YNeqVI/gb75IjPDD hW3Hv6C1UtflCubqvQ=; b=Az78fRs8cV00gm4ztD7q4U8bXQhZkPX0VxwxEJQtS 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int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 01:08:49 +0800 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: int-area Message-ID: <7F88B7B9-A5E5-41F9-BFD4-2B527B80A91A@consulintel.es> Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:09:10 -0000 I believe everybody here is taking it very easy, but seems that some folks = insist in not reading all the suggestions received and specially all the IE= TF documents prepared for new participants, including the ones available in= every IETF meeting during the Sunday tutorials. Several of us, have explained you and public and private, how it works, and= that you must read those documents to make our participation profitable fo= r everyone. Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking it really= easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you don't respect = us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in general b= y continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that are wron= g and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you, not helpin= g anyone. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 23:06 Para: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. This was a suggestion, take it easy. =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PA= LET MARTINEZ Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:31 PM To: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 So, you expect that we change the rules for you, or we should change th= em for everybody? =20 Rules have been defined by the community for a good reason. =20 If we change the rules for everybody, then you should expect thousands = of WGs being created every other day, with no consensus, lot of community t= ime lost and nobody paying attention to the real work, so we could shutdown= IETF. =20 Regards, Jordi =20 =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 22:25 Para: Lee Howard CC: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 =20 We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know wh= o is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. From: Lee Howard=20 To: Khaled Omar=20 CC: int-area=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Khaled Omar Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard Cc: int-area Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 >After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly o= r privately the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep u= pdating the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the draft fo= r > the 1st time. >=20 >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so= . There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a docume= nt is worth working on. If you have received private statements > of support, those people need to send messages to the list. >=20 >Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is= a wg for IPv10 or not. > > > =20 =20 There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are people inte= rested in forming a working group. =20 =20 Lee =20 =20 > >=20 > >=20 >From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] > >Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM >To: Khaled Omar; int-area >Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > >=20 >What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? > >For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG= ). If there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you = might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would > want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many= people willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would question = one who thought there was consensus support for IPv10. > >=20 > >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so= . There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a docume= nt is worth working on. If you have received private statemetns > of support, those people need to send messages to the list.=20 > >=20 > >Lee > >=20 > >=20 > >From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Oma= r >Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM >To: int-area >Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs >Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. > >=20 > >>Hi all, >>=20 >>Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the= discussion phase has passed. >>=20 >>I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv1= 0 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of m= y hands. >>=20 >>I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and = whom is responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be do= ne for adoption or start publishing the I-D. >>=20 >>Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a s= hort time for the presentation and we may face another remote technical pro= blem as occurred at IETF 98. >> >>=20 >>Best regards, >>=20 >>Khaled Omar >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ Int-area mailing = list >>Int-area@ietf.org=20 >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 > > > =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company =20 This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or= confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of t= he individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosu= re, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even = if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be = considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be awa= re that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thi= s information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly pro= hibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the or= iginal sender to inform about this communication and delete it. =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. 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dXQgdGhpcyBjb21tdW5pY2F0aW9uIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgaXQuDQoNCg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KSW50LWFyZWEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0 DQpJbnQtYXJlYUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5m by9pbnQtYXJlYQ0K From nobody Tue Sep 12 10:29:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E89A132D8E for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 10:29:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from 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d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=E1VnOMMeafZgc2cgl0b5xjguoOZNZ+PVA7jtofKj/ISgH4mEI5Vc8ucNQ6R8 sBEZXxOnwyltSUJy06OVTMiqnxsSVRZVwl5X2nHijHQda22NTzHZLPDNG 1IPQliKigf4jRG8sRDsi5rMj8L6afpif+LpErihCpNwNHKJpYcLYxc=; X-MDAV-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Tue, 12 Sep 2017 19:29:20 +0200 X-Spam-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Tue, 12 Sep 2017 19:29:18 +0200 Received: from [172.16.0.246] by mail.consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50005549598.msg for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 19:29:18 +0200 X-MDOP-RefID: re=0.000,fgs=0 (_st=1 _vt=0 _iwf=0) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:170912:md50005549598::l0DaNbM63PM15cmF:00002Ngn X-Return-Path: prvs=14289c8416=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 01:29:02 +0800 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: int-area Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: <7F88B7B9-A5E5-41F9-BFD4-2B527B80A91A@consulintel.es> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:29:26 -0000 Respecting people and their time means that before asking once and again ab= out changing the process for you, or the process itself, you MUST have read= the process documents, which doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be the case. If you did that, then you don=E2=80=99t understand the documents, and then = you need some help *before* contributing, to clarify your mind about the pr= ocess. Otherwise you waste your time and the rest of us time. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 13 de septiembre de 2017, 1:24 Para: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >>>> Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking = it really easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you don't= respect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in = general by continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that= are wrong and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you, n= ot helping anyone. =20 Why you say I disrespect you ? I don't like waste of time because if I = feel things are not going good with the IETF members or participants, simpl= y I will go away. =20 All what I was asking for is a WG so all interested people participate = on the discussion and to avoid repeating questions many times. =20 Eventually, please stop saying claims about me like:=20 =20 " but I think many of us here believe that you don't respect us, neithe= r our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in general by continuo= usly forwarding private emails and repeating things that are wrong and have= been explained to you several times" =20 Because if I do, I wouldn't be here answering people's questions and kn= ow more people. =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PA= LET MARTINEZ Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:09 PM To: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 I believe everybody here is taking it very easy, but seems that some fo= lks insist in not reading all the suggestions received and specially all th= e IETF documents prepared for new participants, including the ones availabl= e in every IETF meeting during the Sunday tutorials. =20 Several of us, have explained you and public and private, how it works,= and that you must read those documents to make our participation profitabl= e for everyone. =20 Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking it re= ally easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you don't resp= ect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in gener= al by continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that are = wrong and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you, not he= lping anyone. =20 Regards, Jordi =20 =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 23:06 Para: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 This was a suggestion, take it easy. =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORD= I PALET MARTINEZ Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:31 PM To: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 So, you expect that we change the rules for you, or we should chang= e them for everybody? =20 Rules have been defined by the community for a good reason. =20 If we change the rules for everybody, then you should expect thousa= nds of WGs being created every other day, with no consensus, lot of communi= ty time lost and nobody paying attention to the real work, so we could shut= down IETF. =20 Regards, Jordi =20 =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar <= eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> Responder a: Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 22:25 Para: Lee Howard CC: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 =20 We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will kno= w who is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. From: Lee Howard=20 To: Khaled Omar=20 CC: int-area=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Khaled Omar Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard Cc: int-area Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 >After answering questions of people who send me e-mails public= ly or privately the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I ke= ep updating the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the draf= t for > the 1st time. >=20 >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to sa= y so. There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a do= cument is worth working on. If you have received private statements > of support, those people need to send messages to the list. >=20 >Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if ther= e is a wg for IPv10 or not. > > > =20 =20 There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are people = interested in forming a working group. =20 =20 Lee =20 =20 > >=20 > >=20 >From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] > >Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM >To: Khaled Omar; int-area >Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > >=20 >What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for t= his? > >For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group= (WG). If there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, = you might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would > want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and = many people willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would quest= ion one who thought there was consensus support for IPv10. > >=20 > >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to sa= y so. There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a do= cument is worth working on. If you have received private statemetns > of support, those people need to send messages to the list.= =20 > >=20 > >Lee > >=20 > >=20 > >From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled= Omar >Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM >To: int-area >Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs >Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. > >=20 > >>Hi all, >>=20 >>Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think= the discussion phase has passed. >>=20 >>I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the = IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out = of my hands. >>=20 >>I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF = and whom is responsible for its final decision, either still some work to b= e done for adoption or start publishing the I-D. >>=20 >>Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is= a short time for the presentation and we may face another remote technical= problem as occurred at IETF 98. >> >>=20 >>Best regards, >>=20 >>Khaled Omar >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> >> >>_______________________________________________ Int-area mail= ing list >>Int-area@ietf.org=20 >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 > > > =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company =20 This electronic message contains information which may be privilege= d or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use = of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disc= losure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, e= ven if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will= be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be= aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of= this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly= prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to th= e original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company =20 This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or= confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of t= he individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosu= re, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even = if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be = considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be awa= re that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thi= s information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly pro= hibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the or= iginal sender to inform about this communication and delete it. =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the i= ndividual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if p= artially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be cons= idered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware t= hat any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this in= formation, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibi= ted, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the origin= al sender to inform about this communication and delete it. 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DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N63JVJSUOl0t for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x229.google.com (mail-wm0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8312C126B6D for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x229.google.com with SMTP id i189so1414054wmf.1 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=kumari-net.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CbqJXoZnOj0CskRypjQxTj3EhgjiXwiNtXTHsOR7fCU=; b=d4PYjFwyclO610hsA2jmwNEgSqB6aLkKrDNYw5u52QD00HZooXvJlJB10Hr/BkXe7b wwmOn5M6cjolCfNrTdloFXJgVtT+wKchSG9dcS4aJpP8zj22pzBKaD/dMNIsa+FR8Fzn 1XjBLe8Lc37n8nqaU5vxMx5nEdXltYrkFpeybd0Md5ZDP8Ehw/xte0/H9q9jj22giBjb lKulG6AHUSEGmuQ0BpXUtpXkb20NnUp7pF8qH0IthtvKBOhxfpZC6TsGRkfRtxg4YxA0 O3LUJQGYWjzy/ZM1No2wE/x3MgKserDhMne13+XDjqf8p9nwCR2jbmv8GWSGnhscN+l4 4RSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=CbqJXoZnOj0CskRypjQxTj3EhgjiXwiNtXTHsOR7fCU=; b=kzzMs42Fw/sxGo753eToOHhW5sVhEdW1KzEkY0/480/i5Q3atV+XHTOp26l4q/2Jqy lt9Ar3wV2NWxVZwFrWUD2GestmfrR6JvkRtbPxX5fAlNFhnTrf9BSgzzmJ4Bb6v0LnCF wjZvP3lJ1ZFBwlBjP4J0O89wo+UfIM02vW47imlsHWcCWgfs2aIXZ6xLXMoufbUiZGbl ND2tX6X2pgRI2spQOHbknG5zIDjVFVisk3IPvoxgMi5mjewFc/+F+U78AEXTa86X6xW8 HF1kckYxLx55pb2pM/rdOcTQP0H611Hgi8rH/j34UGPBQiQIZZ3VE1QHHVCwZr77d/s3 YZNA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjrQLSa27m58GLsu7eY0XZ+qki5owCWrS6X/hevJHKmpSy73COF +eCduUtKw3jzpJo42dcD65HhQwG6Ff2x X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBuQSN50qv61kiITz9XiDe1Df1S6R7Fj7wer1E6rjRAI5hRvSbf5EdJ/ubeM4dGkWKkNTNgyLdQbOJMwBuV6yA= X-Received: by 10.28.148.203 with SMTP id w194mr347959wmd.91.1505240864744; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:44 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.141 with HTTP; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:27:03 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <7F88B7B9-A5E5-41F9-BFD4-2B527B80A91A@consulintel.es> From: Warren Kumari Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 14:27:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:27:50 -0000 On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 1:39 PM, Khaled Omar wrote: > So in your opinion, what should happen now? Updating the I-D only? Or we = should go forward? Or the IPv10 draft is not interesting at all? I believe that the IETF has shown no interest in working on the IPv10 draft, and so you should a: abandon it or b: consider working on it in some other standards organization. W > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PALE= T MARTINEZ > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:29 PM > To: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > Respecting people and their time means that before asking once and again = about changing the process for you, or the process itself, you MUST have re= ad the process documents, which doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be the case. > > If you did that, then you don=E2=80=99t understand the documents, and the= n you need some help *before* contributing, to clarify your mind about the = process. Otherwise you waste your time and the rest of us time. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: > Fecha: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 13 de septiembre de 2017, 1:24 > Para: int-area > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > >>>> Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m takin= g it really easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you don= 't respect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful i= n general by continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things th= at are wrong and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you,= not helping anyone. > > Why you say I disrespect you ? I don't like waste of time because if = I feel things are not going good with the IETF members or participants, sim= ply I will go away. > > All what I was asking for is a WG so all interested people participat= e on the discussion and to avoid repeating questions many times. > > Eventually, please stop saying claims about me like: > > " but I think many of us here believe that you don't respect us, neit= her our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in general by contin= uously forwarding private emails and repeating things that are wrong and ha= ve been explained to you several times" > > Because if I do, I wouldn't be here answering people's questions and = know more people. > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI = PALET MARTINEZ > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:09 PM > To: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > I believe everybody here is taking it very easy, but seems that some = folks insist in not reading all the suggestions received and specially all = the IETF documents prepared for new participants, including the ones availa= ble in every IETF meeting during the Sunday tutorials. > > Several of us, have explained you and public and private, how it work= s, and that you must read those documents to make our participation profita= ble for everyone. > > Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking it = really easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you don't re= spect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in gen= eral by continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that ar= e wrong and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you, not = helping anyone. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: > Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 23:06 > Para: int-area > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > This was a suggestion, take it easy. > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JO= RDI PALET MARTINEZ > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:31 PM > To: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > So, you expect that we change the rules for you, or we should cha= nge them for everybody? > > Rules have been defined by the community for a good reason. > > If we change the rules for everybody, then you should expect thou= sands of WGs being created every other day, with no consensus, lot of commu= nity time lost and nobody paying attention to the real work, so we could sh= utdown IETF. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar= Responder a: > Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 22:25 > Para: Lee Howard > CC: int-area > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > > > We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will k= now who is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. > > Khaled Omar > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > From: Lee Howard > To: Khaled Omar > CC: int-area > > > > > > > > From: Khaled Omar > Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM > To: Lee Howard > Cc: int-area > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > > >After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publ= icly or privately the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I = keep updating the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the dr= aft for > > the 1st time. > > > >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to = say so. There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a = document is worth working on. If you have received private statements > > of support, those people need to send messages to the list. > > > >Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if th= ere is a wg for IPv10 or not. > > > > > > > > > There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are peopl= e interested in forming a working group. > > > Lee > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] > > > >Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM > >To: Khaled Omar; int-area > >Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > > > > > >What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for= this? > > > >For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working gro= up (WG). If there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter= , you might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would > > want to see that there was broad support for the effort, an= d many people willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would que= stion one who thought there was consensus support for IPv10. > > > > > > > >If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to = say so. There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a = document is worth working on. If you have received private statemetns > > of support, those people need to send messages to the list. > > > > > > > >Lee > > > > > > > > > > > >From: Int-area on behalf of Khal= ed Omar > >Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM > >To: int-area > >Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs > >Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > > > > > >>Hi all, > >> > >>Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I thi= nk the discussion phase has passed. > >> > >>I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed th= e IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is ou= t of my hands. > >> > >>I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IET= F and whom is responsible for its final decision, either still some work to= be done for adoption or start publishing the I-D. > >> > >>Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there = is a short time for the presentation and we may face another remote technic= al problem as occurred at IETF 98. > >> > >> > >>Best regards, > >> > >>Khaled Omar > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >>_______________________________________________ Int-area ma= iling list > >>Int-area@ietf.org > >>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privile= ged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive us= e of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized di= sclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information,= even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and wi= ll be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient = be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents = of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strict= ly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to = the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged = or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of= the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclo= sure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, eve= n if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will b= e considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be a= ware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of t= his information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly p= rohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the = original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or c= onfidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the= individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure= , copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if= partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be co= nsidered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware= that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this = information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohi= bited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the orig= inal sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Tue Sep 12 11:54:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A4481330B7 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:54:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.126 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.126 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1Y2sMcb43lOs for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092071068.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.71.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F3F7813293A for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 11:54:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=HzOKKHBinPD/yWyqXkVTUU2fQq4bjUBvipA2rmRT2vs=; b=bmqdHQNixeZWot1B8IA4mPPkU/WPvR6ZZCMPvnjUJ2GYwNVjo3Xa6A/pccIM3GFXAzMxfOgWG5BPcFW/YrlBt8qlNAkyu9Hqp7tKoI5xQym1UQ907L1M33pJmcYYGsGIFqCInRf50Poe692++rXgWg6oErsnTxM9R6cYr94fhH0kNGn9Vlfb5Aj9dBYlZzusUbpcMzYSBknouhRb2OrrOSklblnbEmnuIjJENGN++rXdtZIUJUWWyFuJEAfwYREgHAC5cGf5lvvUWhjpBBYLkPbjqYx/slUOJGkcV9r96IYTKPTTFvmj+Q7S8GrSZj5rGLZW8jSe8hwwoFHZrOdV0w== Received: from DB5EUR03FT052.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.20.55) by DB5EUR03HT068.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.20.184) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.13.11; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:54:11 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.20.59) by DB5EUR03FT052.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.21.82) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.13.11 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:54:11 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0035.021; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:54:10 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Warren Kumari CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. 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dA0KPiBJbnQtYXJlYUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xp c3RpbmZvL2ludC1hcmVhDQoNCg0KDQotLQ0KSSBkb24ndCB0aGluayB0aGUgZXhlY3V0aW9uIGlz IHJlbGV2YW50IHdoZW4gaXQgd2FzIG9idmlvdXNseSBhIGJhZCBpZGVhIGluIHRoZSBmaXJzdCBw bGFjZS4NClRoaXMgaXMgbGlrZSBwdXR0aW5nIHJhYmlkIHdlYXNlbHMgaW4geW91ciBwYW50cywg YW5kIGxhdGVyIGV4cHJlc3NpbmcgcmVncmV0IGF0IGhhdmluZyBjaG9zZW4gdGhvc2UgcGFydGlj dWxhciByYWJpZCB3ZWFzZWxzIGFuZCB0aGF0IHBhaXIgb2YgcGFudHMuDQogICAtLS1tYWYNCg== From nobody Tue Sep 12 12:27:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 655A3132D91 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:27:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, 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[24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id u7sm8557314qte.88.2017.09.12.12.27.11 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Sep 2017 12:27:12 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0BA46D7C-F2AB-4B85-BC1C-479720B45F6C" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 15:27:09 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: Warren Kumari , int-area To: Khaled Omar References: <7F88B7B9-A5E5-41F9-BFD4-2B527B80A91A@consulintel.es> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 19:27:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0BA46D7C-F2AB-4B85-BC1C-479720B45F6C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sep 12, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Khaled Omar = wrote: > This means that the issue is not on the technical details, the issue = is personal that shouldn't be at the IETF because it doesn't matter from = where the author is or people looking for more things other than = technical discussion. Forgive me if I am saying something you already understand, but the way = that you do work in the IETF is to find other IETF participants who are = interested in the same topic that you are interested in, demonstrate to = the IETF as a whole that there is sufficient interest in the work to = justify the IETF allocating agenda time for it, and then those people = meet and discuss the topic and write documents based on those = discussions. It's really not the case that you can just come to the IETF with a = document and get it published. That's not how the IETF process works. So when you say that the issue is personal, that simply isn't correct. = The issue is that you haven't done the work you need to do. If you = can't get anybody interested in what you are interested in, that means = that the work can't be done in the IETF. It isn't personal. This = happens a lot. There are things I'd like to work on for which there is = no interest in the IETF, and I have some very clear ideas about how to = do other things that the IETF is working on, but I don't get my way: the = working group doesn't agree with me, and so we produce something that's = different than what I would have done. What we hope happens as a result of this is that what is produced is = better; that's not even always the case. But we are successful often = enough that many of us still consider it to be worth the effort. If you are not willing to follow this process, then what you have = discovered is that you do not consider it to be worth the effort. --Apple-Mail=_0BA46D7C-F2AB-4B85-BC1C-479720B45F6C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Sep 12, 2017, at 2:54 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
This means that the issue is not on the = technical details, the issue is personal that shouldn't be at the IETF = because it doesn't matter from where the author is or people looking for = more things other than technical discussion.

Forgive= me if I am saying something you already understand, but the way that = you do work in the IETF is to find other IETF participants who are = interested in the same topic that you are interested in, demonstrate to = the IETF as a whole that there is sufficient interest in the work to = justify the IETF allocating agenda time for it, and then those people = meet and discuss the topic and write documents based on those = discussions.

It's really not the case that you can just come to the IETF = with a document and get it published.   That's not how the IETF = process works.

So when you say that the issue is personal, that simply isn't = correct.   The issue is that you haven't done the work you need to = do.   If you can't get anybody interested in what you are = interested in, that means that the work can't be done in the IETF. =   It isn't personal.   This happens a lot.   There are = things I'd like to work on for which there is no interest in the IETF, = and I have some very clear ideas about how to do other things that the = IETF is working on, but I don't get my way: the working group doesn't = agree with me, and so we produce something that's different than what I = would have done.

What we hope happens as a result of this is that what is = produced is better; that's not even always the case.   But we are = successful often enough that many of us still consider it to be worth = the effort.

If = you are not willing to follow this process, then what you have = discovered is that you do not consider it to be worth the = effort.

= --Apple-Mail=_0BA46D7C-F2AB-4B85-BC1C-479720B45F6C-- From nobody Tue Sep 12 13:02:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 560971330C6 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:02:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ecs.soton.ac.uk Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sdI2BmvPwXJm for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:02:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [IPv6:2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 00D2C132F5E for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 13:02:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v8CK1uRb012792; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:01:56 +0100 X-DKIM: Sendmail DKIM Filter v2.8.2 falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk v8CK1uRb012792 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha1; c=simple/simple; d=ecs.soton.ac.uk; s=201304; t=1505246517; bh=k6iVHuW2IKUggsqSU8LtZfaPYc0=; h=From:Mime-Version:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References; b=trR9VVct+EfDekOujHl6lZ2SERLZPT3LfKGoN2aYDZz2RY6tucOXgDBcn7pbLzRuW OFhLZpUrQsDZl4pChMG63RK4mdK/36lbxm5Zs9AhGG2IvhrvW11T/6+WSW90TrpEwx xmtTeTNWbSH9jD5KaabIk2mleWdCkrzYnhh/LSek= Received: from gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25d]) by falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk (falcon.ecs.soton.ac.uk [2001:630:d0:f102::25e]) envelope-from with ESMTP (valid=N/A) id y8BL1u1015311842Hc ret-id none; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:01:56 +0100 Received: from [192.168.49.112] ([185.52.220.72]) (authenticated bits=0) by gander.ecs.soton.ac.uk (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id v8CK1pSJ015518 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:01:51 +0100 From: Tim Chown Message-ID: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6120E3AC-F4B5-4864-93A5-2FA28683E958" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:01:51 +0100 In-Reply-To: Cc: int-area To: Khaled Omar References: <7F88B7B9-A5E5-41F9-BFD4-2B527B80A91A@consulintel.es> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-ECS-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-ECS-MailScanner-SpamScore: ss X-smtpf-Report: sid=y8BL1u101531184200; tid=y8BL1u1015311842Hc; client=relay,ipv6; mail=; rcpt=; nrcpt=2:0; fails=0 X-ECS-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-ECS-MailScanner-ID: v8CK1uRb012792 X-ECS-MailScanner-From: tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 20:02:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6120E3AC-F4B5-4864-93A5-2FA28683E958 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On 12 Sep 2017, at 18:39, Khaled Omar = wrote: >=20 > So in your opinion, what should happen now? Updating the I-D only? Or = we should go forward? Or the IPv10 draft is not interesting at all?=20 I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g. ipv10@ietf.org = to discuss your proposal. But to form a WG you need to meet the criteria of RFC 5434 - see = https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5434 = , and as it stands, I=E2=80=99m = afraid you don=E2=80=99t meet any of the criteria to even have a = WG-forming BoF approved. The IETF works on rough consensus and running = code, and you don=E2=80=99t have either, at least yet. Tim >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI = PALET MARTINEZ > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:29 PM > To: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 > Respecting people and their time means that before asking once and = again about changing the process for you, or the process itself, you = MUST have read the process documents, which doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be = the case. >=20 > If you did that, then you don=E2=80=99t understand the documents, and = then you need some help *before* contributing, to clarify your mind = about the process. Otherwise you waste your time and the rest of us = time. >=20 > Regards, > Jordi >=20 >=20 > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar = Responder a: > Fecha: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 13 de septiembre de 2017, 1:24 > Para: int-area > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 >>>>> Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking = it really easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you = don't respect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are = respectful in general by continuously forwarding private emails and = repeating things that are wrong and have been explained to you several = times. Not helping you, not helping anyone. >=20 > Why you say I disrespect you ? I don't like waste of time because = if I feel things are not going good with the IETF members or = participants, simply I will go away. >=20 > All what I was asking for is a WG so all interested people = participate on the discussion and to avoid repeating questions many = times. >=20 > Eventually, please stop saying claims about me like:=20 >=20 > " but I think many of us here believe that you don't respect us, = neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in general by = continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that are = wrong and have been explained to you several times" >=20 > Because if I do, I wouldn't be here answering people's questions = and know more people. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Khaled Omar >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:09 PM > To: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 > I believe everybody here is taking it very easy, but seems that = some folks insist in not reading all the suggestions received and = specially all the IETF documents prepared for new participants, = including the ones available in every IETF meeting during the Sunday = tutorials. >=20 > Several of us, have explained you and public and private, how it = works, and that you must read those documents to make our participation = profitable for everyone. >=20 > Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking = it really easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you = don't respect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are = respectful in general by continuously forwarding private emails and = repeating things that are wrong and have been explained to you several = times. Not helping you, not helping anyone. >=20 > Regards, > Jordi >=20 >=20 > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar = Responder a: > Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 23:06 > Para: int-area > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 > This was a suggestion, take it easy. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Khaled Omar >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = JORDI PALET MARTINEZ > Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:31 PM > To: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 > So, you expect that we change the rules for you, or we should = change them for everybody? >=20 > Rules have been defined by the community for a good reason. >=20 > If we change the rules for everybody, then you should expect = thousands of WGs being created every other day, with no consensus, lot = of community time lost and nobody paying attention to the real work, so = we could shutdown IETF. >=20 > Regards, > Jordi >=20 >=20 > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled = Omar Responder a: = > Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 22:25 > Para: Lee Howard > CC: int-area > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will = know who is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. >=20 > Khaled Omar >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > From: Lee Howard=20 > To: Khaled Omar=20 > CC: int-area=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > From: Khaled Omar > Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM > To: Lee Howard > Cc: int-area > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 >=20 >=20 >> After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or = privately the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep = updating the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the = draft for >> the 1st time. >>=20 >> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. = There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a = document is worth working on. If you have received private statements >> of support, those people need to send messages to the list. >>=20 >> Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is a = wg for IPv10 or not. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 > There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are = people interested in forming a working group. >=20 >=20 > Lee >=20 >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] >>=20 >> Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM >> To: Khaled Omar; int-area >> Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? >>=20 >> For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). = If there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you = might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would >> want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many = people willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would = question one who thought there was consensus support for IPv10. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. = There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a = document is worth working on. If you have received private statemetns >> of support, those people need to send messages to the list.=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> Lee >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar = >> Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM >> To: int-area >> Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs = >> Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> Hi all, >>>=20 >>> Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the = discussion phase has passed. >>>=20 >>> I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 = I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of = my hands. >>>=20 >>> I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and = whom is responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be = done for adoption or start publishing the I-D. >>>=20 >>> Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a = short time for the presentation and we may face another remote technical = problem as occurred at IETF 98. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>>=20 >>> Khaled Omar >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing = list >>> Int-area@ietf.org=20 >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area = =20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company >=20 > This electronic message contains information which may be = privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the = exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further = non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of = the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached = files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. = If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even = if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be = considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender = to inform about this communication and delete it. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company >=20 > This electronic message contains information which may be = privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the = exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further = non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of = the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached = files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. = If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even = if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be = considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender = to inform about this communication and delete it. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company >=20 > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged = or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use = of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized = disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this = information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly = prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the = intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution = or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including = attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal = offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this = communication and delete it. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail=_6120E3AC-F4B5-4864-93A5-2FA28683E958 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On 12 Sep 2017, at 18:39, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

So = in your opinion, what should happen now? Updating the I-D only? Or we = should go forward? Or the IPv10 draft is not interesting at all?

I believe = you can request an IETF mail list, e.g. ipv10@ietf.org to discuss your = proposal.

But to form a WG you need = to meet the criteria of RFC 5434 - see https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5434, and as it stands, = I=E2=80=99m afraid you don=E2=80=99t meet any of the criteria to even = have a WG-forming BoF approved.  The IETF works on rough consensus = and running code, and you don=E2=80=99t have either, at least = yet.

Tim



-----Original Message-----
From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI = PALET MARTINEZ
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:29 = PM
To: int-area
Subject: Re: [Int-area] = IPv10.

Respecting people and their time = means that before asking once and again about changing the process for = you, or the process itself, you MUST have read the process documents, = which doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be the case.

If= you did that, then you don=E2=80=99t understand the documents, and then = you need some help *before* contributing, to clarify your mind about the = process. Otherwise you waste your time and the rest of us time.

Regards,
Jordi


-----Mensaje original-----
De: = Int-area <int-area-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Khaled Omar = <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> Responder a: <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
Fecha: = mi=C3=A9rcoles, 13 de septiembre de 2017, 1:24
Para: = int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
Asunto: Re: = [Int-area] IPv10.

Will all the respect = from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking it really easy and calm, = but I think many of us here believe that you don't respect us, neither = our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in general by = continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that are = wrong and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you, not = helping anyone.

   Why you say I disrespect you ? I don't = like waste of time because if I feel things are not going good with the = IETF members or participants, simply I will go away.

   All what I was asking for is a WG so all = interested people participate on the discussion and to avoid repeating = questions many times.

=    Eventually, please stop saying claims about me like: =

   " but I think many of = us here believe that you don't respect us, neither our work, neither our = time, neither are respectful in general by continuously forwarding = private emails and repeating things that are wrong and have been = explained to you several times"

=    Because if I do, I wouldn't be here answering people's = questions and know more people.

=    Best regards,

=    Khaled Omar


=    -----Original Message-----
=    From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI = PALET MARTINEZ
   Sent: Tuesday, September = 12, 2017 7:09 PM
   To: int-area
   Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.

   I believe everybody here is = taking it very easy, but seems that some folks insist in not reading all = the suggestions received and specially all the IETF documents prepared = for new participants, including the ones available in every IETF meeting = during the Sunday tutorials.

=    Several of us, have explained you and public and = private, how it works, and that you must read those documents to make = our participation profitable for everyone.

=    Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99= m taking it really easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe = that you don't respect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither = are respectful in general by continuously forwarding private emails and = repeating things that are wrong and have been explained to you several = times. Not helping you, not helping anyone.

=    Regards,
   Jordi


   -----Mensaje = original-----
   De: Int-area <int-area-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Khaled Omar = <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> Responder a: <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
=    Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 23:06
   Para: int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
   Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.

=        This was a suggestion, take it = easy.

=        Best regards,

       Khaled Omar

=        -----Original Message-----
       From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI = PALET MARTINEZ
=        Sent: Tuesday, September 12, = 2017 4:31 PM
=        To: int-area
=        Subject: Re: [Int-area] = IPv10.

=        So, you expect that we change = the rules for you, or we should change them for everybody?

=        Rules have been defined by the = community for a good reason.

=        If we change the rules for = everybody, then you should expect thousands of WGs being created every = other day, with no consensus, lot of community time lost and nobody = paying attention to the real work, so we could shutdown IETF.

=        Regards,
=        Jordi


=        -----Mensaje original-----
       De: Int-area = <int-area-bounces@ietf.org> en nombre de Khaled Omar = <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> Responder a: <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
=        Fecha: martes, 12 de = septiembre de 2017, 22:25
=        Para: Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org>
       CC: int-area = <int-area@ietf.org>
=        Asunto: Re: [Int-area] = IPv10.




=            We can = make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know who is = interested to work on the IPv10 I-D.

=            Khaled = Omar


=            --------= Original Message --------
=            Subject:= Re: [Int-area] IPv10.
=            From: = Lee Howard
=            To: = Khaled Omar
=            CC: = int-area







=            From: = Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
=            Date: = Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM
=            To: = Lee Howard <lee@asgard.org>
=            Cc: = int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
=            Subject:= RE: [Int-area] IPv10.



After answering = questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or privately the = discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep updating the = I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the draft for
the 1st time.

If there are = people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. There can=E2=80=99t= be consensus if only one or two people think a document is worth = working on. If you have received private statements
of = support, those people need to send messages to the list.
Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if = there is a wg for IPv10 or not.





=            There = won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are people interested in = forming a working group.


=            Lee






From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org]

Sent: = Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM
To: Khaled Omar; = int-area
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.



What evidence do you see that = there is consensus support for this?

For an = IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). If there = is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you might = need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would
want to = see that there was broad support for the effort, and many people willing = to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would question one who = thought there was consensus support for IPv10.



If there are people who want to = work on IPv10, they need to say so. There can=E2=80=99t be consensus if = only one or two people think a document is worth working on. If you have = received private statemetns
of support, those people need = to send messages to the list.



Lee





From: Int-area = <int-area-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Khaled Omar = <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
Date: = Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM
To: int-area <int-area@ietf.org>
Cc: intarea-ads <intarea-ads@ietf.org>, intarea-chairs <intarea-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: = [Int-area] IPv10.



Hi all,

Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think = the discussion phase has passed.

I would = like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D, but = still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my = hands.

I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus = be calculated at the IETF and whom is responsible for its final = decision, either still some work to be done for adoption or start = publishing the I-D.

Waiting for the coming = meeting is not a good idea as there is a short time for the presentation = and we may face another remote technical problem as occurred at IETF = 98.


Best regards,

Khaled Omar





_______________________________________________ Int-area = mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area>








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=        This electronic message = contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The = information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) = named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, = distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if = partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be = considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be = aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents = of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is = strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must = reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and = delete it.



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=    **********************************************
   IPv4 is over
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=    This electronic message contains information which may = be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the = exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further = non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of = the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached = files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. = If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even = if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be = considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender = to inform about this communication and delete it.



=    _______________________________________________
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   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
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   https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area




**********************************************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet = ?
http://www.consulintel.es
The IPv6 = Company

This electronic message contains = information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is = intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above = and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution = or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including = attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal = offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any = disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this = information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly = prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to = the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it.



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I = believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g. ipv10@ietf.org to = discuss your proposal.

This is subject to approval from the IESG, and = typically requires that (many) more than one person express interest in = the work.

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(lee@asgard.org@72.221.14.181) by 0 with ESMTPA; 12 Sep 2017 21:15:49 -0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.7.2.170228 Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 17:15:44 -0400 From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar , Ted Lemon CC: int-area Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3588081348_13571038" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2017 21:15:55 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3588081348_13571038 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable I navigated this way: www.ietf.org > Info for Newcomers > Other general mailing lists and I got to https://www.ietf.org/list/ Which says: > * Non-Working Group Lists : > including lists hosted @ietf.org and elsewhere that may be of interest to= IETF > participants. Addition of a new list or modification of an existing entry= both > require the approval of an Area Director. > =20 >=20 > Please note that mailing lists @ietf.org are for conducting official IETF > business only and must be approved by an IETF Area Director, the IETF Cha= ir, > or the IAB Chair. Statements addressed to these lists are considered IETF > contributions and are subject to the IETF intellectual property rights ru= les > as defined in RFC 5378 , "Rights > Contributors Provide to the IETF Trust," and RFC 3979 > , "Intellectual Property Rights in= IETF > Technology." > =20 >=20 > To request a new working group mailing list, please see "How to Request a= New > Working Group Mailing List at the IETF > ." To request a non-WG mailing l= ist, > please refer to "IETF Non-WG Mailing Lists > ." That last link is the answer to your question. It doesn=E2=80=99t need to be an IETF-hosted mailing list. Just a discussion list= to show there=E2=80=99s interest and progress. Lee From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 4:24 PM To: Ted Lemon Cc: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > Hi Ted, >=20 > From who I can request IPv10 mailing list? >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > From: Ted Lemon=20 > To: Tim Chown=20 > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area >=20 >=20 >> On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chown wrote: >>> I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g. ipv10@ietf.org to dis= cuss >>> your proposal. >>=20 >> This is subject to approval from the IESG, and typically requires that (= many) >> more than one person express interest in the work. >>=20 > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --B_3588081348_13571038 Content-type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable
I navigated this way:
www.ie= tf.org > Info for Newcomers > Other general mailing lists  
=

Which says:
      <= li> Non-Working Group Lis= ts: including lists hosted @ietf.org and elsewhere that may be of interest to IETF participants. Addition of a new list or modification of an existing entry both require the approval of an Area Director.

Please note that mailing lists @ietf.org are for conducting official IETF business only and must be approved by an IETF Area Director, the IETF Chair, or the IAB Chair. Statements addressed to these lists are considered IETF contributions and are subject to the IETF intellectual property rights rules as defined in RFC 5378, "Rights Contributors Provide to the = IETF Trust," and RFC 3979= , "Intellectual Property Rights in IETF Technology."

To request a new working group mailing list, please see "How to Reques= t a New Working Group Mailing List at the IETF." To request a non-WG mai= ling list, please refer to "IETF Non-WG Mailing Lists."

That la= st link is the answer to your question.

It doesn= 217;t need to be an IETF-hosted mailing list. Just a discussion list to show= there’s interest and progress.

Lee




From: Int-area <int-area-bounce= s@ietf.org> on behalf of Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>
Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 4:24 PM
To: Ted Lemon <mellon@fugue.com>
Cc: = int-area <int-area@ietf.org>Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.
<= /div>

Hi Ted,

>From who I can request IPv10 mailing list?


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.
From: Ted Lemon
To: Tim Chown
CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area <= br>

On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chown <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk> wrote:
I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g. ipv10@ietf.o= rg to discuss your proposal.

<= /div>
This is subject to approval from the IESG, and typically requires = that (many) more than one person express interest in the work.
_______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/int-area
--B_3588081348_13571038-- From nobody Tue Sep 12 18:19:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757F9133207 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:19:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1szjI9ytmnuu for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:19:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8912133205 for ; Tue, 12 Sep 2017 18:19:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1505265559; x=1505870359; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=UKgsJZGDreVIkrwhWVO+D0Mnj pzSupWzcI7R+rxErxo=; b=FHGmHHh5LXQIoTf2Gg1piuvRaSa6U2JvBI52i1K+P Co51hauFaQ2VqJfUtALHpkq75408Tx33bmLLT/sq07KKSHE84TX0btpl9EpstU3s 4jQPbomlSxePNvGQ1FRmBxaHbRhsvSnIEbRVf1XI3lByNBH8iV4CRbu/+qPq+fJm Lw= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=FhAygYGXi6R1kPlHPo9NShb6/8VvnpUccr0FznEP+J6bwKzelEl6Iy8SH+bI am71EVJ1g4CAm10Nr5cXpN10uzvxJeMg+2uGCAvLtVKYYmhUkzQnb1J3h 1smG2dAMrboLtfsItxlrbB610jHvrvpBfybB5hiAlq+Rkfq6nTIefI=; X-MDAV-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Wed, 13 Sep 2017 03:19:19 +0200 X-Spam-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Wed, 13 Sep 2017 03:19:18 +0200 Received: from [220.247.156.145] by mail.consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50005549964.msg for ; Wed, 13 Sep 2017 03:19:17 +0200 X-MDOP-RefID: re=0.000,fgs=0 (_st=1 _vt=0 _iwf=0) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:170913:md50005549964::KDMe+JS1+eP6oHal:00002pa1 X-Return-Path: prvs=1429868568=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.25.0.170815 Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 09:19:00 +0800 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: int-area Message-ID: <8071BB6A-DDEE-48C3-98B0-F2E401801A2B@consulintel.es> Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: <7F88B7B9-A5E5-41F9-BFD4-2B527B80A91A@consulintel.es> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 01:19:25 -0000 Several of us have told him the same several times about a year ago. I pers= onally insisted him to ask the IESG for a mailing list, talk to the ADs, et= c. =E2=80=A6 so I insist he is not reading the documents, may be not even r= eading all the emails =E2=80=A6 so not worth the effort to reply anymore. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Tim Chown Responder a: Fecha: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 13 de septiembre de 2017, 4:02 Para: Khaled Omar CC: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. On 12 Sep 2017, at 18:39, Khaled Omar wro= te: =20 =20 So in your opinion, what should happen now? Updating the I-D only? Or w= e should go forward? Or the IPv10 draft is not interesting at all?=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g. ipv10@ietf.org to dis= cuss your proposal. =20 But to form a WG you need to meet the criteria of RFC 5434 - see https:= //tools.ietf.org/html/rfc5434, and as it stands, I=E2=80=99m afraid you don= =E2=80=99t meet any of the criteria to even have a WG-forming BoF approved.= The IETF works on rough consensus and running code, and you don=E2=80=99t= have either, at least yet. =20 Tim =20 =20 =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORDI PA= LET MARTINEZ Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:29 PM To: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 Respecting people and their time means that before asking once and agai= n about changing the process for you, or the process itself, you MUST have = read the process documents, which doesn=E2=80=99t seem to be the case. =20 If you did that, then you don=E2=80=99t understand the documents, and t= hen you need some help *before* contributing, to clarify your mind about th= e process. Otherwise you waste your time and the rest of us time. =20 Regards, Jordi =20 =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar Responder a: Fecha: mi=C3=A9rcoles, 13 de septiembre de 2017, 1:24 Para: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking it re= ally easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you don't resp= ect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in gener= al by continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that are = wrong and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you, not he= lping anyone. =20 =20 =20 Why you say I disrespect you ? I don't like waste of time because i= f I feel things are not going good with the IETF members or participants, s= imply I will go away. =20 All what I was asking for is a WG so all interested people particip= ate on the discussion and to avoid repeating questions many times. =20 Eventually, please stop saying claims about me like:=20 =20 " but I think many of us here believe that you don't respect us, ne= ither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in general by cont= inuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that are wrong and = have been explained to you several times" =20 Because if I do, I wouldn't be here answering people's questions an= d know more people. =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of JORD= I PALET MARTINEZ Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 7:09 PM To: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 I believe everybody here is taking it very easy, but seems that som= e folks insist in not reading all the suggestions received and specially al= l the IETF documents prepared for new participants, including the ones avai= lable in every IETF meeting during the Sunday tutorials. =20 Several of us, have explained you and public and private, how it wo= rks, and that you must read those documents to make our participation profi= table for everyone. =20 Will all the respect from my side, believe me, I=E2=80=99m taking i= t really easy and calm, but I think many of us here believe that you don't = respect us, neither our work, neither our time, neither are respectful in g= eneral by continuously forwarding private emails and repeating things that = are wrong and have been explained to you several times. Not helping you, no= t helping anyone. =20 Regards, Jordi =20 =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Omar <= eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> Responder a: Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 23:06 Para: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 This was a suggestion, take it easy. =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of = JORDI PALET MARTINEZ Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 4:31 PM To: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 So, you expect that we change the rules for you, or we should c= hange them for everybody? =20 Rules have been defined by the community for a good reason. =20 If we change the rules for everybody, then you should expect th= ousands of WGs being created every other day, with no consensus, lot of com= munity time lost and nobody paying attention to the real work, so we could = shutdown IETF. =20 Regards, Jordi =20 =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Khaled Om= ar Responder a: Fecha: martes, 12 de septiembre de 2017, 22:25 Para: Lee Howard CC: int-area Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 =20 We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will= know who is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. From: Lee Howard=20 To: Khaled Omar=20 CC: int-area=20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Khaled Omar Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard Cc: int-area Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 =20 After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or pri= vately the discussion stops at this point, that=E2=80=99s why I keep updati= ng the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the draft for the 1st time. =20 If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. The= re can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is= worth working on. If you have received private statements of support, those people need to send messages to the list. =20 Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is a wg= for IPv10 or not. =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 There won=E2=80=99t be a working group unless there are peo= ple interested in forming a working group. =20 =20 Lee =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] =20 Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM To: Khaled Omar; int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? =20 For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). If= there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, you might= need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many peopl= e willing to work on it. I=E2=80=99m not an AD, but I would question one wh= o thought there was consensus support for IPv10. =20 =20 =20 If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. The= re can=E2=80=99t be consensus if only one or two people think a document is= worth working on. If you have received private statemetns of support, those people need to send messages to the list.=20 =20 =20 =20 Lee =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 From: Int-area on behalf of Khaled Omar Date: Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM To: int-area Cc: intarea-ads , intarea-chairs Subject: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 =20 Hi all, =20 Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the discu= ssion phase has passed. =20 I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 I-D,= but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is out of my hand= s. =20 I don=E2=80=99t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom i= s responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be done for= adoption or start publishing the I-D. =20 Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a short t= ime for the presentation and we may face another remote technical problem a= s occurred at IETF 98. =20 =20 Best regards, =20 Khaled Omar =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org=20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company =20 This electronic message contains information which may be privi= leged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive = use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized = disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this informatio= n, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and = will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipien= t be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the content= s of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is stri= ctly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply t= o the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company =20 This electronic message contains information which may be privilege= d or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use = of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disc= losure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, e= ven if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will= be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be= aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of= this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly= prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to th= e original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company =20 This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or= confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of t= he individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosu= re, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even = if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be = considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be awa= re that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of thi= s information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly pro= hibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the or= iginal sender to inform about this communication and delete it. =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the i= ndividual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if p= artially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be cons= idered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware t= hat any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this in= formation, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibi= ted, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the origin= al sender to inform about this communication and delete it. 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X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2017 10:51:07 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB22416B29A2BFF266FB5AF277BD6E0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: Khaled Omar Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:42 PM To: 'Suresh Krishnan' Cc: 'Lee Howard'; 'Ted Lemon' Subject: IETF Non-Working Group List for IPv10 Request. Hi Suresh, I would like to make a request for an IETF non-working group list for IPv10= discussion. Please find the following information below: * The name and email address of the submitter =3D=3D> Khaled Omar, eng.= khaled.omar@hotmail.com * The name of the list =3D=3D> IPv10. * The URL or email address of the list =3D=3D> ipv10@ietf.org * The name(s) and email address(es) of the list administrator(s) =3D=3D= >Khaled Omar, eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com * A summary description of the list to be included in the table on this= page =3D=3D> IPv10 allows communication between IPv4 and IPv6 hosts. * A more detailed explanation of the purpose of the list to be included= on the mailman page and sent in the announcement of the list that is sent = to the community =3D=3D> IP version 10 (IPv10) is a new version of the Inte= rnet Protocol, designed to allow IP version 6 [RFC-2460] to communicate to = IP version 4 (IPv4) [RFC-791] and vice versa. * The IETF Area to which the list belongs =3D=3D> Int-area. Please forward the approved request to =3D=3D> list-manager@ietf.org Thanks in advance, Khaled Omar --_000_AM4PR0401MB22416B29A2BFF266FB5AF277BD6E0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

From: Khaled Omar
Sent: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 11:42 PM
To: 'Suresh Krishnan'
Cc: 'Lee Howard'; 'Ted Lemon'
Subject: IETF Non-Working Group List for IPv10 Request.

 

Hi Suresh,

 

I would like to make a request for an IETF non-worki= ng group list for IPv10 discussion.

 

Please find the following information below:

 

Please forward the approved request to &e= grave; list-manager@ietf.org

Thanks in advance,

Khaled Omar

 

 

 

 

--_000_AM4PR0401MB22416B29A2BFF266FB5AF277BD6E0AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Thu Sep 14 08:57:20 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A2731326F3 for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:57:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.135 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.135 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wE0xtYBYcyFw for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:57:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092071067.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.71.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C45CF132DFB for ; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 08:57:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=QOHebzqda4t+OG09JkmFYIKexaRLxCjHlbbVocIfeuk=; b=dXvyNKXn9XoWhCF/GnJYhndiquoJ8XQBljobm3FK+1ykvRCOSNd4S7S1uCxhELGzKBwB3RCYB9X6MBcqncBIv3nBRdtyfA0xwQ8CQEltdTbTCeGtMIfx2emvV1hc/DMMR5zCV0CQB1oVmYGBITcvAXBvV6KoQrEJyCb0t2iQWo6qJQAtRPHwvJFOhJEM6mWKIzW4lVejucF+hfklbkydqGaviyatCZoGzuutthwulUtge/l1o8xq/J7KsX1zZJB2EbQ7xqVuvE66A1o0MkDpIRhQDL3j8Uq8dJ4l0LAyUWGun0qZ9yNYbJB07Ht3n/bKr2ofQSiSafMZ3oRE8OKIeA== Received: from VE1EUR03FT007.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.18.55) by VE1EUR03HT047.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.19.160) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.35.14; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:57:12 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.18.57) by VE1EUR03FT007.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.18.114) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.35.14 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:57:12 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0035.021; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 15:57:12 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Lee Howard , Suresh Krishnan CC: int-area Thread-Topic: IETF Non-Working Group List for IPv10 Request. 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[24.60.163.103]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a35sm1144376qtb.16.2017.09.21.08.08.59 for (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Lemon Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5688953C-D6ED-4775-8C20-9432160ECBAD" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:08:58 -0400 References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> To: int-area In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <21A03685-11BA-41F8-A0F9-A5D68D872B97@fugue.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] [v6ops] Fwd: WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:09:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5688953C-D6ED-4775-8C20-9432160ECBAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On Sep 21, 2017, at 11:02 AM, Suresh Krishnan = wrote: > The intarea working group is considering adoption of a draft = concerning provisioning domains. The response to the adoption call has = been a bit on the quieter side but generally positive. I am spreading = out this adoption call in the hopes of getting wider feedback from = related working groups. Please send your thoughts (Thanks in advance!!) = by September 27th 2017 to the intarea working group mailing list at = int-area@ietf.org . Eight in favor, none objecting? I'd say it's just not controversial, like e.g. = let-localhost-be-localhost... --Apple-Mail=_5688953C-D6ED-4775-8C20-9432160ECBAD Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii On Sep 21, 2017, at 11:02 AM, Suresh Krishnan <suresh.krishnan@gmail.com> wrote:
  The = intarea working group is considering adoption of a draft concerning = provisioning domains. The response to the adoption call has been a bit = on the quieter side but generally positive. I am spreading out this = adoption call in the hopes of getting wider feedback from related = working groups. Please send your thoughts (Thanks in advance!!) by = September 27th 2017 to the intarea working group mailing list at int-area@ietf.org.

Eight in favor, none objecting?

I'd say it's just not controversial, like = e.g. let-localhost-be-localhost...

= --Apple-Mail=_5688953C-D6ED-4775-8C20-9432160ECBAD-- From nobody Thu Sep 21 08:38:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D84DB13292E for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:38:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.199, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cHnNZOQqjmI3 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:38:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf0-x233.google.com (mail-lf0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4010:c07::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B8FDB126B6D for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:38:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf0-x233.google.com with SMTP id r17so6177467lff.6 for ; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:38:14 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=+KivHjn0qQQ+3/J1yrX0EFXYipQeNlfIUR4zaeNlfJg=; b=i8nVgIYoRVIqrD2dOWsMJga7Yo6r7nHzf7luYhbiHQa/h3l0Ap8HHYBqQTRXXWWlk5 /Qoxlx8sxTwH6ca77DSoXfzuPjQ7uS/b2u2cC/nTA4Qjs7B1WEHIbUSdbQsHX3Qkcbds f9cwLr57vBlnEx2xWw5rzbxON6t4MuXvJPMH9GmEYRyb/nv5PNsa463/GqqQTxcJDHMZ 0avXaS+wZIMAdBViK+/VqSe/wzV0awkmEn9qBdTEcJNuAbDZjHLGwEJDSpJ5sbG6kF8B 79r6YyIBA53E3taRg1QVTPS1rhbwHOOOl8ZwOr04Q3LCKulUBs7FyCOcyZtHm6f0klZU +oQg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=+KivHjn0qQQ+3/J1yrX0EFXYipQeNlfIUR4zaeNlfJg=; b=de65Y4Rno8ICoANZs3JDoBOX0GjC0Y9N8nXAwq1RFVwaUtXGkdDdbgt3Odj848jJVz SNrjdQt74YB/wyUoBaA+Fm9dQyaY+F2mnba8wCZoMrN0CLG+9l5SzelCnyvqHFIqNiWv vQGx+2rgDNQ5ytFDxGWHQp2HismVm+e1YpR0TkSd1OPHL1nWbJK8LgUcFjHMxfiFSsUI OugIE99eR8OWOGV8L5Hl7JN/MHF1/9nuRkjBS8QlJN/8Ur+529xSe9mJnbrZCpdYBdwm qT8zNB9x2ntnrsv8sQg+gq1Aq2qBOs2CJOTv50eteZs7Y000Ec2KuXPrbEn1EWBUaixy WJ6w== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUj2H7ZnBRt1XJo+GdsKE83a9VvNlKlmhxsn0uF5ocDgFuz5pzuj yHUZ6RQNREzrvT50VhPkkNTph148UG0+l+Fs97Q= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCivH7T4dn/hhqEbjJYJUCNP+QADe9rgFrKS9V2JuBYCNfjzAu3RTXMGUhq+JUqpba567/8lJL5QnCuhGvsEA8= X-Received: by 10.25.219.216 with SMTP id t85mr1073614lfi.88.1506008292850; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:38:12 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: mglt.ietf@gmail.com Received: by 10.46.97.18 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:38:12 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <21A03685-11BA-41F8-A0F9-A5D68D872B97@fugue.com> References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> <21A03685-11BA-41F8-A0F9-A5D68D872B97@fugue.com> From: Daniel Migault Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:38:12 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: KSM48iy0qQrO9qIdtl_wwophTXY Message-ID: To: Ted Lemon Cc: int-area Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c184a3252fffc0559b4e126" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] [v6ops] Fwd: WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:38:17 -0000 --94eb2c184a3252fffc0559b4e126 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I am supporting the adoption. Yours, Daniel On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Ted Lemon wrote: > On Sep 21, 2017, at 11:02 AM, Suresh Krishnan > wrote: > > The intarea working group is considering adoption of a draft concerning > provisioning domains. The response to the adoption call has been a bit on > the quieter side but generally positive. I am spreading out this adoption > call in the hopes of getting wider feedback from related working groups. > Please send your thoughts (Thanks in advance!!) by September 27th 2017 to > the intarea working group mailing list at int-area@ietf.org. > > > Eight in favor, none objecting? > > I'd say it's just not controversial, like e.g. > let-localhost-be-localhost... > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > --94eb2c184a3252fffc0559b4e126 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I am supporting the adoption.
Yours,
Daniel

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 11:08 AM, Ted Lemon <<= a href=3D"mailto:mellon@fugue.com" target=3D"_blank">mellon@fugue.com&g= t; wrote:
On Sep 21, 2017, at 11:02 AM, Suresh Krishnan = <suresh.k= rishnan@gmail.com> wrote:
=C2=A0 = The intarea working group is considering adoption of a draft concerning pro= visioning domains. The response to the adoption call has been a bit on the = quieter side but generally positive. I am spreading out this adoption call = in the hopes of getting wider feedback from related working groups. Please = send your thoughts (Thanks in advance!!) by September 27th 2017 to the inta= rea working group mailing list at=C2=A0int-area@ietf.org.

Eight in favor, none objecting?

I'd say it's ju= st not controversial, like e.g. let-localhost-be-localhost...

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area


--94eb2c184a3252fffc0559b4e126-- From nobody Sun Sep 24 00:32:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2401C132D49; Sun, 24 Sep 2017 00:32:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Carlos Bernardos To: Cc: int-area@ietf.org, draft-ietf-intarea-broadcast-consider.all@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150623836210.5031.17716199391295946656@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 00:32:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Intdir early review of draft-ietf-intarea-broadcast-consider-04 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 24 Sep 2017 07:32:42 -0000 Reviewer: Carlos Bernardos Review result: Ready with Nits The document is well written and clear to follow. I have not found any major issue. I have some recommendations/questions for the authors: * Page 3: RFC 7919 --> RFC 7819. * It would be good to have a section (maybe an annex) in which authors describe the differences (if any) found in the experiments performed with IPv4 vs IPv6. Since IPv6 does not do broadcast, there may be important differences to highlight. * While I understand that the authors do not provide details about the apps analyzed, it would be good to include more information for example about the distribution of the frequency of broadcast/multicast messages found in the experiments. And it would also be nice (though I don't know if this would be feasible) to provide some recommended values for the frequencies to use (an app developer could benefit from some additional guidelines). * Page 5: "In that respect broadcast can be [...]" --> "In that respect, multicast can be [...]" or "In that respect, broadcast/multicast can be [...]". Note that the examples used are IPv6, so "broadcast" alone would not apply. 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([169.254.5.133]) by GAALPA1MSGHUBAF.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.8.218.155]) with mapi id 14.03.0361.001; Mon, 25 Sep 2017 10:12:10 -0400 From: "STARK, BARBARA H" To: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data Thread-Index: AdM2CEVI1SiiFL4PRtC0hHiqXoynMw== Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2017 14:12:09 +0000 Message-ID: <2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DC3DCE1@GAALPA1MSGUSRBF.ITServices.sbc.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.226.90] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2D09D61DDFA73D4C884805CC7865E6114DC3DCE1GAALPA1MSGUSRBF_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-09-25_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 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OzwvbzpwPjwvc3Bhbj48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_1301971C29C942798523FF5CC8617875ciscocom_-- From nobody Tue Sep 26 08:23:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 77858134285; Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:23:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.62.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150643940344.20857.17992251986775088343@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 08:23:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-06.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Sep 2017 15:23:23 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces Authors : Ron Bonica Reji Thomas Jen Linkova Chris Lenart Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-probe-06.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-09-26 Abstract: This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to test the status of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed interfaces. Alternatively, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly connected. This document updates RFC 4884. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:10:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6D9A134704 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:10:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JuW61cNJ15KD for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:10:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E6A04134702 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:10:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SCAUHO084236 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:10:30 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id F2F5A20B829 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:10:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E99B320B37C for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:10:29 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SCAT6i018826 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:10:29 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <8F377143-3061-432D-9F2B-1C32D151D293@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:10:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IETF Non-Working Group List for IPv10 Request. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:10:34 -0000 This is the way I see it. https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv10 does not exist. Name IPv10 for a mailing list at IETF sounds as a non starter. In the past several people proposed IPv7, IPv8 or IPv9. Each had pros and cons. I think the current wisdom is that it is nonsense to talk any other v than IPv4 or IPv6 in the Internet. IPv4 and IPv6 are not like Windows7 and Windows 10, nor like firefox 35 and firefox 53. That said. I think there are many improvements necessary in the IP protocols. These could be explored in a separate email list. It could also be an IRTF email list ('R' for Research, instead of 'E' for Engineering; Research is a good thing too). Have you asked this? Second, the problem of connecting the existing IPv4 Internet to a future Internet Protocol like IPv6 is a real problem. Alex Le 14/09/2017 à 17:57, Khaled Omar a écrit : >>> In my own estimation, there is simply not enough support for this > proposal, and overwhelming opposition. > > Yes, I understand. > > Thanks for everyone > > Khaled > > *From:*Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 14, 2017 3:25 PM > *To:* Khaled Omar; Suresh Krishnan > *Subject:* Re: IETF Non-Working Group List for IPv10 Request. > > *From: *Khaled Omar > > *Date: *Thursday, September 14, 2017 at 7:28 AM > *To: *Suresh Krishnan > > *Cc: *Lee Howard > > *Subject: *RE: IETF Non-Working Group List for IPv10 Request. > > Hi Suresh, > > The non-working group mailing list will show if there is interest on > discussing IPv10 or not. > > If there is no demonstrated support for something, the IETF should not > spend resources on it. Otherwise, we are vulnerable to a denial of > service attack of unsupported ideas. > > Since IPv10 I-D was uploaded to the IETF, I received dozens of > e-mail from people who are interested on this discussion, and from > people who are not interested as well, let’s take a step forward and > we will see it clearly. > > If they are unwilling to demonstrate support on the IETF mailing list a > few months ago, or in the int-area mailing list now, why would a new > list make a difference? > > As I said before, you are welcome, even encouraged, to set up your own > mailing list, using any email provider you choose, to give people a > place to start working on this. > > In my own estimation, there is simply not enough support for this > proposal, and overwhelming opposition. > > Lee > > *From:*Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 14, 2017 1:09 AM > *To:* Khaled Omar > *Cc:* Lee Howard; Ted Lemon > *Subject:* Re: IETF Non-Working Group List for IPv10 Request. > > Hi Khaled, > >   I have not seen interest in this draft that warrants a creation > of a non-WG mailing list for this purpose. > > Thanks > > Suresh > > On Sep 12, 2017, at 5:41 PM, Khaled Omar > > wrote: > > Hi Suresh, > > I would like to make a request for an IETF non-working group > list for IPv10 discussion. > > Please find the following information below: > > * The name and email address of the submitterèKhaled > Omar,eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com > > * The name of the listèIPv10. > * The URL or email address of the listèipv10@ietf.org > > * The name(s) and email address(es) of the list > administrator(s)èKhaled Omar,eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com > > * A summary description of the list to be included in the > table on this pageèIPv10 allows communication between IPv4 > and IPv6 hosts. > * A more detailed explanation of the purpose of the list to be > included on the mailman page and sent in the announcement of > the list that is sent to the communityèIP version 10 (IPv10) > is a new version of the Internet Protocol, designed to allow > IP version 6 [RFC-2460] to communicate to IP version 4 > (IPv4) [RFC-791] and vice versa. > * The IETF Area to which the list belongsèInt-area. > > Please forward the approved request toèlist-manager@ietf.org > > > Thanks in advance, > > Khaled Omar > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:11:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C2B41346F5 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:11:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GOQ3Yh0U8vOT for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 912E8132D54 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:11:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SCBXEb084947 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:11:33 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id CCC2820573D for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id B6E5A2054FD for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:11:33 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SCBXqN019803 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:11:33 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:11:33 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:11:37 -0000 Le 12/09/2017 à 22:24, Khaled Omar a écrit : > Hi Ted, > > From who I can request IPv10 mailing list? I'd rather ask: Does it make sense to ask an IPv10 email list? If not, what would be another name? Alex > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > From: Ted Lemon > To: Tim Chown > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area > > > On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chown > wrote: >> I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g.ipv10@ietf.org >>  to discuss your proposal. > > This is subject to approval from the IESG, and typically requires > that (many) more than one person express interest in the work. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:14:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F8F41346F5 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:14:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jLBf4VugG-8Q for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:14:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C4A33132D54 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:14:26 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1506600864; x=1507205664; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=CNfM/SSV7EUGr5Yyzc46Ir9r7 yD75NbYnq8M2I+O/xI=; b=boe3CqXikCZJvOWd+J1jRkIkXWJ6+rZT96Y9gHr7A vXRrsAQF5IHHgth5EfdFFxGUHdf+BtlRmtHWwo/jCF+uS8UGIh5M6VhvyjGMKzTu DFk21MUsqvVv1EGo+y23FMfRw+QTgiS69IrxsHm/dSyI0Wp61aVlkXQgOHNNIhnL ck= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=QTQLX6HuUQTOyIVotqdsvvgFVGMr5Hm91zy5mlspjUsIDofVxBVEoXx7Z+vs 7yBIj2f5clz4jVfvSv1WYnXzZQGDC7yWHaPKjM7P8wC0eNA1gubhmfxIA IVIQvskJkhuL/Ur902H4O9SNbxGcfK8ZcKouo9fNhinhHPCFvfme9k=; X-MDAV-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:14:24 +0200 X-Spam-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:14:23 +0200 Received: from [10.10.10.135] by mail.consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50005570761.msg for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:14:22 +0200 X-MDOP-RefID: re=0.000,fgs=0 (_st=1 _vt=0 _iwf=0) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:170928:md50005570761::zgOMFdL14RN1pVqn:000009cH X-Return-Path: prvs=14445c1049=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.26.0.170902 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:14:14 +0200 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: Message-ID: <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv10. References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:14:29 -0000 Maybe re-ipng ? We can start working in the successor of IPv6, so we have now 400-500 years= to develop it and we are not late deploying it when we run out of IPv6 add= resses. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu Responder a: Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 14:11 Para: Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. =20 =20 Le 12/09/2017 =C3=A0 22:24, Khaled Omar a =C3=A9crit : > Hi Ted, >=20 > From who I can request IPv10 mailing list? =20 I'd rather ask: Does it make sense to ask an IPv10 email list? If not,= =20 what would be another name? =20 Alex =20 >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > From: Ted Lemon > To: Tim Chown > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area >=20 >=20 > On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chown > wrote: >> I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g.ipv10@ietf.org >> to discuss your proposal. >=20 > This is subject to approval from the IESG, and typically requires > that (many) more than one person express interest in the work. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the i= ndividual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if p= artially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be cons= idered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware t= hat any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this in= formation, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibi= ted, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the origin= al sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:15:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0C2E132D54 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:15:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y_F4BjX4lo-e for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 621751345EF for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:15:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SCFG3o087169 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:15:16 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 8976B205593 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:15:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7F886205387 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:15:16 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SCFGko023129 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:15:16 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:15:16 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:15:21 -0000 Le 12/09/2017 à 16:25, Khaled Omar a écrit : > We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know who is > interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. People did something like this in the past. They were so happy to get their WG but without clear idea what to do in it. WGs come and go anyway. One may even create a very ephemeral assembly, in which a few people talk about the same thing, during few hours, and agree on next steps. It's a very elightening experience. Alex > > Khaled Omar > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > From: Lee Howard > To: Khaled Omar > CC: int-area > > > > > From: Khaled Omar > > Date: Tuesday, September 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM > To: Lee Howard > > Cc: int-area > > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. > > After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly > or privately the discussion stops at this point, that’s why I > keep updating the I-D to make it more clear for other people > reading the draft for the 1^st time. > > If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say > so. There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a > document is worth working on. If you have received private > statements of support, those people need to send messages to the > list. > > Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there > is a wg for IPv10 or not. > > > There won’t be a working group unless there are people interested in > forming a working group. > > Lee > > *From:* Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 12, 2017 3:08 PM > *To:* Khaled Omar; int-area > *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? > > For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group > (WG). If there is no existing WG which could include this in its > charter, you might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) > would want to see that there was broad support for the effort, > and many people willing to work on it. I’m not an AD, but I > would question one who thought there was consensus support for > IPv10. > > If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say > so. There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a > document is worth working on. If you have received private > statemetns of support, those people need to send messages to the > list. > > Lee > > *From: *Int-area > on behalf of Khaled Omar > > > *Date: *Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM > *To: *int-area > > *Cc: *intarea-ads >, intarea-chairs > > > *Subject: *[Int-area] IPv10. > > Hi all, > > Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I > think the discussion phase has passed. > > I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the > IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the > decision is out of my hands. > > I don’t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and > whom is responsible for its final decision, either still > some work to be done for adoption or start publishing the I-D. > > Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there > is a short time for the presentation and we may face another > remote technical problem as occurred at IETF 98. > > Best regards, > > Khaled Omar > > _______________________________________________ Int-area > mailing list Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:18:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AD19C1346F8 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:18:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.233 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.233 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IUQjBj9735Fo for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83FCB13292F for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:18:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SCIZJq020328 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:18:35 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id CE73720B829 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:18:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBE6B20B37C for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:18:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SCIZNd026064 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:18:35 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <8a275499-59be-67b7-d27e-4a5b36298927@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:18:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:18:39 -0000 I agree with this. One should be very careful with Author names. One cant just paste someone's name in a draft. There should be willingness, invitation, agreement, even retiring names some times. This can take time, but it should happen. Alex > > > On 9/1/17, 6:04 PM, "Khaled Omar" wrote: >> >> >> After all these concerns, I would like to thank you again for adding your >> name again to the I-D :-) From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:35:42 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95DDD134706 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:35:40 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YPWmnv5o4JtM for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 50DAC134705 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:35:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SCZaIe038893 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:35:36 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id A2C3C20B972 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:35:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9976220B945 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:35:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SCZaDB009024 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:35:36 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <3903fdf5-339b-ab3c-cc88-600ac0532c83@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:35:36 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 and Countries X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:35:41 -0000 Le 01/09/2017 à 22:54, Lee Howard a écrit : [...] > In summary: > This might be possible, with enough work, but I can’t see how it will > overtake the momentum of IPv6 deployment and existing transition > mechanisms. Here’s a possible timeline, being very generous to IPv10: > IPv6 IPv10 > 2018 50% of US WG discussion > 2019 50% of world IETF nearing consensus (into 2020) > 2021 75% of world first vendor code ships > 2026 99% of world Old hardware that couldn’t support new code is cyclin out I am very happy to see the left column. Because it shows IPv6 adoption is happening on a large scale. This is encouraging. I would like, however, to express a risk, and at the same time, an opportunity of further comparison. The points of view are very different from country to country: 50% penetration in US; I think Egypt is something like 0.2% penetration. 50 is significantly bigger than 0.2. This can be interpreted as too overwhelming. Listing US vs World may also be a risk of interpretation - sounds as if US is not part of the world. However, a common denominator could be: IPv6 is present (or not) in country x vs country y. Then one can discuss why, in a certain Country, the IPv6 presence is posing problems of interconnectivity to IPv4 Internet. Also, I agree it's hard to talk US, world, or even Country, in an interconnected system like Internet. My two cents worth. Alex > > > You can prove me wrong: > 1. Write an implementation. Show how an IPv4+IPv10 host can communicate > with an IPv6+IPv10 host over a dual-stack (or triple-stack) network. If > the router implementation is an open-source router, that’s fine at this > stage. > 2. Have someone else write an implementation that interoperates with > yours. That will demonstrate that the document is detailed enough and > clear enough. > 3. Do some performance testing. Show that it is easier to update to IPv10 > than to dual-stack (including IPv6+transition), and that there is no > performance penalty for doing so. > 4. Convince a router vendor to implement in test code, and run load > testing, to demonstrate that it works at Internet scale. > > If you can get through Step 3, you may be able to get to Step 4, and if > you can do Step 4 you have a good shot at convincing other vendors to > implement. If you can get through at least Step 3, you’ll be in good shape > in looking for IETF consensus, because you’ll have running code. > > > While I am skeptical of this specific proposal, I wish you luck and hope > you will engage with other work in the IETF. > > Lee > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:40:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 12DB9134684 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:40:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4gD3IeWoUeDw for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:40:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D66B513304B for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:40:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SCec4v042114 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:40:38 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3078C20B9CC for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:40:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 237F420542E for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:40:38 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SCebRP013838 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:40:38 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <12fe8ece-d1fb-cdaf-214c-8a5a66f76027@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:40:37 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:40:42 -0000 Jordi, :-) But I suppose the original poster intends to work now on some topic. I can understand a little bit of irony in your message. I saw it in other messages as well. However, we dont have a document "Top 10 reasons why IPv!=[46] is nonsense" We do have many documents "Top 10 reasons why IPv4 and IPv6 make sense" Alex Le 28/09/2017 à 14:14, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a écrit : > Maybe re-ipng ? > > We can start working in the successor of IPv6, so we have now 400-500 years to develop it and we are not late deploying it when we run out of IPv6 addresses. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu > Responder a: > Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 14:11 > Para: > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > > Le 12/09/2017 à 22:24, Khaled Omar a écrit : > > Hi Ted, > > > > From who I can request IPv10 mailing list? > > I'd rather ask: Does it make sense to ask an IPv10 email list? If not, > what would be another name? > > Alex > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > From: Ted Lemon > > To: Tim Chown > > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area > > > > > > On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chown > > wrote: > >> I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g.ipv10@ietf.org > >> to discuss your proposal. > > > > This is subject to approval from the IESG, and typically requires > > that (many) more than one person express interest in the work. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Int-area mailing list > > Int-area@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 05:47:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6B2F134716 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:47:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UBwWEkgUcprq for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:47:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FD2E1345AE for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 05:47:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=daUWG/mc1AFQ3L6YNWt88xsrDdr0W4nKZAfHfBqBjxs=; b=TRp+IRY0oLktSphp9tL6boiNL 3n58RCw2IAoJE2HGLeVGWq9RyRBfeA+NKo/7UwpJAl5w8Fs4Jn5tPFOV01+++/d4u5/LjQoxxE4ef Bt7uJAgCpgTzGbef1pOm3/uBD8cPvfgL3NdOQVGXU1JYPZj3X6Q6rvZjlHV54Iwx55aTOK36jtW1J 2vbNCO6sW4PPHK8XgnlibNanaIeqeyJjKSX9oqyp3sc4mXuTZkyHtEWoWbGuv1taK6/zjdfgLLL91 fBcWgEmoEApFqxzP1TLH8npYSiemmOJsFM5nroI1477e6jcCJR8IV704LVlvZahLP3onepTO8IY9P DGBpw35EA==; Received: from mfe5636d0.tmodns.net ([208.54.86.254]:41852 helo=[100.169.172.228]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dxYDS-002SYY-AS; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 08:46:59 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:46:53 +0100 Cc: int-area@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <46FF7206-0E2D-4EDA-883B-6E6691ADCDD0@strayalpha.com> References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:47:02 -0000 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 1:14 PM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: >=20 >=20 > I'd rather ask: Does it make sense to ask an IPv10 email list? If not,= =20 > what would be another name? Anything that does not appear to squat on a code point. Like an IP version n= umber. And yes, that goes for doc titles too.=20 Joe= From nobody Thu Sep 28 06:07:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EDA134714 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:07:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.925 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.925 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t0xHO786TunW for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:07:07 -0700 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VE1EUR01HT235.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.3.253) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.56.11; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:07:04 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.2.58) by VE1EUR01FT053.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.3.37) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.56.11 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:07:04 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.016; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:07:04 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 Thread-Index: AQHTOFN4n6kY6WYBDU62HhMnO+GpPqLKQhLA Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:07:04 +0000 Message-ID: References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: 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Zm8vaW50LWFyZWENCj4gDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fDQpJbnQtYXJlYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkludC1hcmVhQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRw czovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2ludC1hcmVhDQo= From nobody Thu Sep 28 06:24:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B70133057 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:24:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id r8zsiI02Xla3 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:24:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7984F13472D for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:24:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1506605038; x=1507209838; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=wTP4kvWlXEQR/Plk6BGtlaJ1g RH963Il405VhWGST5Y=; b=iOY2xbz3G1C3/gINoMPlPxi/CQOix0rkgGLfYOHLm 8SMZpJ7n7/i6lXUJCpr6HvmYf/oHzQWaHqrG2BRefRKtKJe1tHR6G9xmMoK+Q0QL MtWqBRCTmAKX9OnoQLIZSoItbxVzky+8M2/o5jsoZmNZPvxr8N22wCYMqJChh4Dm 0k= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=t7zRoVZxRdvj5mcZT6AQW/KsK/CD6N8TDXunH+AMxXqigUmTi26PN7hRvOYy UkAO06QE3qvWcNMCs1JOaIC9P/tTEgX25MtH4uhU5522hA5UyGO+3fBzl D3/u1OSMIImAG+W+bPyh/0n+Y+u/exl8VJN9/6z3I2KGffffzGxuR4=; X-MDAV-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:23:58 +0200 X-Spam-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:23:57 +0200 Received: from [10.10.10.135] by mail.consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50005570875.msg for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:23:57 +0200 X-MDOP-RefID: re=0.000,fgs=0 (_st=1 _vt=0 _iwf=0) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:170928:md50005570875::3BGu4k4tiXMV+2KA:000008mm X-Return-Path: prvs=14445c1049=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.26.0.170902 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:23:53 +0200 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: Message-ID: <2E8ABCD5-4D4F-4C6A-8FAC-31FF5F3C7BB9@consulintel.es> Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> <12fe8ece-d1fb-cdaf-214c-8a5a66f76027@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <12fe8ece-d1fb-cdaf-214c-8a5a66f76027@gmail.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:24:28 -0000 The irony part is that I don=E2=80=99t think we will exhaust IPv6 before we= really have other news for a new protocol =E2=80=9Cor something else=E2=80= =9D. I don=E2=80=99t think even in those 500 years, we will run out of IPv6= addresses, but probably IoT and many other usages of Internet that we even= can=E2=80=99t guess today, will force us to have something new. So ASAP we start thinking on that, even if not yet developing anything, muc= h better we will do it and more chances to avoid mistakes and long unnecess= ary =E2=80=9Ctransition=E2=80=9D phases. Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Int-area en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu Responder a: Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 14:40 Para: Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. Jordi, =20 :-) =20 But I suppose the original poster intends to work now on some topic. =20 I can understand a little bit of irony in your message. I saw it in=20 other messages as well. =20 However, we dont have a document "Top 10 reasons why IPv!=3D[46] is nonsense" =20 We do have many documents "Top 10 reasons why IPv4 and IPv6 make sense" =20 Alex =20 Le 28/09/2017 =C3=A0 14:14, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ a =C3=A9crit : > Maybe re-ipng ? >=20 > We can start working in the successor of IPv6, so we have now 400-500= years to develop it and we are not late deploying it when we run out of IP= v6 addresses. >=20 > Regards, > Jordi > =20 >=20 > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Alexandre Petre= scu > Responder a: > Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 14:11 > Para: > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >=20 > =20 > =20 > Le 12/09/2017 =C3=A0 22:24, Khaled Omar a =C3=A9crit : > > Hi Ted, > > > > From who I can request IPv10 mailing list? > =20 > I'd rather ask: Does it make sense to ask an IPv10 email list? = If not, > what would be another name? > =20 > Alex > =20 > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > From: Ted Lemon > > To: Tim Chown > > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area > > > > > > On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chown > > wrote: > >> I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g.ipv10@ie= tf.org > >> to discuss your proposal. > > > > This is subject to approval from the IESG, and typically r= equires > > that (many) more than one person express interest in the w= ork. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Int-area mailing list > > Int-area@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > =20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company >=20 > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged = or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of= the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclo= sure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, eve= n if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will b= e considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be a= ware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of t= his information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly p= rohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the = original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 =20 _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the i= ndividual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if p= artially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be cons= idered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware t= hat any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this in= formation, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibi= ted, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the origin= al sender to inform about this communication and delete it. From nobody Thu Sep 28 06:28:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5FB013304A for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:28:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MGZ4VDFk5e69 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:28:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E3E0B134725 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 06:28:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SDS2Po026134; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:28:02 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id B488920B9B9; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:28:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A6D612054FD; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:28:02 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SDS2rg027139; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:28:02 +0200 To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:28:02 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 13:28:14 -0000 Le 28/09/2017 à 15:07, Khaled Omar a écrit : > Hi Alex, > >> People did something like this in the past. They were so happy to >> get their WG but without clear idea what to do in it. One may even >> create a very ephemeral assembly, in which a few people talk about >> the same thing, during few hours, and agree on next steps. It's a >> very enlightening experience. > > We didn't try this with IPv10 yet to have an influence regarding the > participants and consensus, I dont understand that - can you please repeat? [...] > Regarding the name, I think there is a second name suggested on the > draft which is IPmix, "IPmix" can sound good, although it can sound also like a 'soup' or 'mixture'. Makes me also think of MMIX which is a computer architecture with a second meaning: it means 2009 in latin numbering (the year it was supposed to get into production, which unfortunately did not happen). > it can be used instead of IPv10 which IMHO better to identify the > packet. It will not be possible to get a number like '10' to identify IP packets, like 4 or 6 does. They wont give it, however hard one may try. I think that is because there is not enough place left. At the rate of one version every 10 years it will be quickly exhausted. Can you please look where are these numbers defined: 4 and 6, for IP. Alex > > Regards, > > Khaled Omar > > -----Original Message----- From: Int-area > [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 2:15 PM To: int-area@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > > > Le 12/09/2017 à 16:25, Khaled Omar a écrit : >> We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know >> who is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. > > People did something like this in the past. They were so happy to > get their WG but without clear idea what to do in it. > > WGs come and go anyway. > > One may even create a very ephemeral assembly, in which a few people > talk about the same thing, during few hours, and agree on next steps. > It's a very elightening experience. > > Alex > >> >> Khaled Omar >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >> From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar CC: int-area >> >> >> >> >> From: Khaled Omar > > Date: Tuesday, September 12, >> 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard > > Cc: int-area > > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. >> >> After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly >> or privately the discussion stops at this point, that’s why I keep >> updating the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading >> the draft for the 1^st time. >> >> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say >> so. There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a >> document is worth working on. If you have received private >> statements of support, those people need to send messages to the >> list. >> >> Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is >> a wg for IPv10 or not. >> >> >> There won’t be a working group unless there are people interested >> in forming a working group. >> >> Lee >> >> *From:* Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] *Sent:* Tuesday, >> September 12, 2017 3:08 PM *To:* Khaled Omar; int-area *Subject:* >> Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >> >> What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? >> >> For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group >> (WG). If there is no existing WG which could include this in its >> charter, you might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would >> want to see that there was broad support for the effort, and many >> people willing to work on it. I’m not an AD, but I would question >> one who thought there was consensus support for IPv10. >> >> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say >> so. There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a >> document is worth working on. If you have received private >> statemetns of support, those people need to send messages to the >> list. >> >> Lee >> >> *From: *Int-area > > on behalf of Khaled Omar >> > >> *Date: *Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM *To: *int-area >> > *Cc: *intarea-ads >> >, >> intarea-chairs > > *Subject: *[Int-area] IPv10. >> >> Hi all, >> >> Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the >> discussion phase has passed. >> >> I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the IPv10 >> I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision is >> out of my hands. >> >> I don’t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is >> responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be >> done for adoption or start publishing the I-D. >> >> Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a >> short time for the presentation and we may face another remote >> technical problem as occurred at IETF 98. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Khaled Omar >> >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing >> list Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing >> list Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >> > > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 07:18:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A817C13473B for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:18:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.448 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.448 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT=0.25, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oBC6VcUNQAHF for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:18:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x234.google.com (mail-oi0-x234.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::234]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 91485133057 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:18:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x234.google.com with SMTP id r20so2492823oie.0 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:18:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=Nx3qkSx55ixhkOMGW1zmJbqsTCiTi0fG0RuQbmcEnlQ=; b=PuAsno9AR9B09LaI9Wbt5Bm7k7ZO2eV8eEQ1FrTIFA0qDgHLvOigPfy/u97fVql1fi /XlmTD5ubUf1uAc49C89h2zNDxV34BqrhwWdJaxLNUyJ1v8bCWhEyc0tmr2/EDZC2E7D jXHfT4H2eni02baQRITeZxuKDucuM89cTpfN1JW+Vx05haBrI5S+tIjR7xDWbMHlmtrw WADIRDRGnsEM5voYHpFu7/G4+0I46xW+gXbfvpUL2lz7cDiRY7PvrOa7z/mtm3x33cWz m/XwoBTlT2UrpUjeXgsMOZme3bY4bV7TZvqV13mFRiKlOqvQkG5yKtuDepvVam+9u+JC YrVw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=Nx3qkSx55ixhkOMGW1zmJbqsTCiTi0fG0RuQbmcEnlQ=; b=uWaZtSOCJ6IXaSu1vmnMkC5VKY8sT1wyuNPQM19prIYnwHBelgJTDDEbouNwTKaztD BievNzQp/x/ZybzWAAqIAIYxqsp1gaQ446TIVO8Iyh3xY+nnPmaOFTrwNjMlgRS7jSHY Ckv7RkGgb1TzNmSjg/RYjifbUyn8ik0aNn94/r+e6wzOkSIYZmcoy7biXtlryLNf7awu 16gJbSs3cZ7xQnVDUuDnDc7YpmMcjwfmxOv8E/OZMcY9DK1EM5/+yq3gLhVkdET3c6lo BFf1hKQx3I6Eizlr4Dvduo4vPnG6LICDL1oAFZaSQHD4WaD9LwwQZ3GjwvUtbqisCArM Vf/w== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXRBwxvSGuLlSTB+ovkoHsSl/wtPPKr9AV063/a7mF+MYjLPJmF O1QLB/vHMhsL5TO7UsQLvKol4Pf18MJHY9j1sQ2Bhw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCxMeVLTirk1UjdCRyQRq4a4lTP6BFkv/ZmterG2JNxcHDYhmOLSqtTcGlqR29tMHyA2wY7lCJJRsxoOPkvib0= X-Received: by 10.157.81.138 with SMTP id y10mr1150625otg.395.1506608306666; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:18:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.168.73.134 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:18:11 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> From: Donald Eastlake Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:18:11 -0400 Message-ID: To: Internet Area Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="f403043d7d48ef4728055a4094b4" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:18:37 -0000 --f403043d7d48ef4728055a4094b4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought it was well known that IPv6 is IP-ng. The next thing is IP-ds9. Thanks, Donald =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Donald E. Eastlake 3rd +1-508-333-2270 (cell) 155 Beaver Street, Milford, MA 01757 USA d3e3e3@gmail.com On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:14 AM, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ < jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote: > Maybe re-ipng ? > > We can start working in the successor of IPv6, so we have now 400-500 > years to develop it and we are not late deploying it when we run out of > IPv6 addresses. > > Regards, > Jordi > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Int-area en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu = < > alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com> > Responder a: > Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 14:11 > Para: > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > > > Le 12/09/2017 =C3=A0 22:24, Khaled Omar a =C3=A9crit : > > Hi Ted, > > > > From who I can request IPv10 mailing list? > > I'd rather ask: Does it make sense to ask an IPv10 email list? If no= t, > what would be another name? > > Alex > > > > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. > > From: Ted Lemon > > To: Tim Chown > > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area > > > > > > On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chown > > wrote: > >> I believe you can request an IETF mail list, e.g.ipv10@ietf.or= g > >> to discuss your proposal. > > > > This is subject to approval from the IESG, and typically requir= es > > that (many) more than one person express interest in the work. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Int-area mailing list > > Int-area@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or > confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of > the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized > disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this > information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly > prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the > intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or > use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including > attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal > offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this > communication and delete it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > --f403043d7d48ef4728055a4094b4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I thought it was well known that IPv6 is IP-ng. T= he next thing is IP-ds9.

=
On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:14 AM, JORDI PALET= MARTINEZ <jordi.palet@consulintel.es> wrote:
Maybe re-ipng ?

We can start working in the successor of IPv6, so we have now 400-500 years= to develop it and we are not late deploying it when we run out of IPv6 add= resses.

Regards,
Jordi


-----Mensaje original-----
De: Int-area <int-area-boun= ces@ietf.org> en nombre de Alexandre Petrescu <alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com>
Responder a: <alexandre.= petrescu@gmail.com>
Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 14:11
Para: <int-area@ietf.org> Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.



=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Le 12/09/2017 =C3=A0 = 22:24, Khaled Omar a =C3=A9crit :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Hi Ted,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 From who I can request IPv10 mailing list?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 I'd rather ask: Does it make sense to ask an IPv10 email = list?=C2=A0 If not,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 what would be another name?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Alex

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > -------- Original Message --------
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > From: Ted Lemon
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > To: Tim Chown
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0On Sep 12, 2017, at 4:01 PM, Tim Chow= n <tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:tjc@ecs.soton.ac.uk>> wrote:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0I believe you can request an IETF= mail list, e.g.ipv10@ietf.org =C2=A0 =C2=A0 >>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<mailto:ipv10@ietf.org> to discuss your proposal.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0This is subject to approval from the = IESG, and typically requires
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0that (many) more than one person expr= ess interest in the work.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Int-area mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Int-area@ietf.org
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l= istinfo/int-area
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 >

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 _______________________________________________
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Int-area mailing list
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Int-area@ietf.org =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin= fo/int-area




********************************= **************
IPv4 is over
Are you ready for the new Internet ?
= http://www.consulintel.es
The IPv6 Company

This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the i= ndividual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if p= artially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be cons= idered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware t= hat any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this in= formation, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibi= ted, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the origin= al sender to inform about this communication and delete it.



____________________________= ___________________
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--f403043d7d48ef4728055a4094b4-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 07:29:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73622133057 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:29:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yoqaPigU8APD for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:29:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x236.google.com (mail-wm0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9D46613301E for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x236.google.com with SMTP id i124so2663057wmf.3 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:29:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version :in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=P2Q4e+NIpm+/NWOgdd1l0bZAGEbL+kgaa/XyEvCd4d8=; b=KqdJZFDzyRozjLuWTuPGQT8ETOMI2j4XxfLLN7vUpRlHy3/H1tp3qM4w/DT2OGnFSW mgmq1K54zbt1dQADvZp7ZKxy9HGkDdPtPLFLQpwCkgx+Qs7HgS1AdXEv0ZSVsbw5xUkt WWDez6LfI012K2wYCrLUthxrNvd0fZiDZ8GwdRi5MU4B0bDIr+xFNIH8oQ/wTtbvcaE0 /QGvJ9MKqtnFTUlaniWxHC7Xd0cki5OvyEG1gidkJaw3Ss7doBroJ9OO/SS17tjWH8Xe +8pv4EpoGgFo9bp256hAfQtJwy7axdUFiF4ojUIRZ6ua+85Lj5kFPZR8MAEXqXjmZKsQ LNdw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=P2Q4e+NIpm+/NWOgdd1l0bZAGEbL+kgaa/XyEvCd4d8=; b=uJpS6bL47WAXyTZ+R4prkRngDSjEbTYPaXOgCQXbfCSlIH6Rc4b/39i/eKxvcjAr9R myOnmTyUhZ5/4josavD2QhlA0cyAmYIV5hGy+aEbXMYLWTuef2StEbF+PB860ShLcBkS RrEUfyRvEqiZOKCZjYm6VCTxET1TZXjII2r+xyfz6tcV8rePrg20pBytBtOlZW5l4sb2 NUIm1+Okf1MS0edhVeBt75dy88YlWjRuKvX2B9Vg94wHheTwbsbnEhhws0H8QRmRnl59 kyf9Qxe9dGs/jDgN6y05R173mpnEQ0gOz4KjGsYCbtaf6qtM+xj6Si/mho6fy6QOKi9y 7PoA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjGZ29q25ogidipxTj8iIlqPidLci879uMqK69QhKL1E86afUr4 2+P5m0fVTiWGq9OY8G1NA4sZ9RqE X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCTs/ps27mUcP+j/YjgEYx5spzc2Mt13CT/CaRZq0ZEUUj5KwQOj3uRnwXYOXvfc3/RRcp8vA== X-Received: by 10.80.132.101 with SMTP id 92mr6142978edp.165.1506608948969; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:29:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i6sm1550076edl.61.2017.09.28.07.29.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:29:08 -0700 (PDT) To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es, int-area@ietf.org References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> <12fe8ece-d1fb-cdaf-214c-8a5a66f76027@gmail.com> <2E8ABCD5-4D4F-4C6A-8FAC-31FF5F3C7BB9@consulintel.es> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:29:05 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <2E8ABCD5-4D4F-4C6A-8FAC-31FF5F3C7BB9@consulintel.es> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:29:12 -0000 On 28/09/2017 14:23, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > I don’t think even in those 500 years, we will run out of IPv6 addresses, I hope you are right, but: I am sure that the original IPv4 designers thought that 2^32 was likely to be an infinity of IP addresses, but then the Internet was hugely successful, and now they are all allocated. I am also sure that the IEEE though that thought that 2^48 was likely to be an infinity of MAC addresses, but then VMs were invented, and now they are worried. People are proposing to use IP addresses for all sorts of things other than host addresses. For example, video fragments was one idea presented at the last IETF, but once that flood gate is opened, who knows what people will be wanting to address with IPv6 addresses, and how many they will need. So whilst 2^128 seems a pretty safe bet, history is not with us. - Stewart From nobody Thu Sep 28 07:33:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0EFC41331E7 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:33:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=consulintel.es; domainkeys=pass (1024-bit key) header.from=jordi.palet@consulintel.es header.d=consulintel.es Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xgfmG0LO0RGZ for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.consulintel.es (mail.consulintel.es [217.126.185.215]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 577CD1331E4 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:33:29 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple; d=consulintel.es; s=MDaemon; t=1506609207; x=1507214007; q=dns/txt; h=DomainKey-Signature: Received:User-Agent:Date:Subject:From:To:Message-ID:Thread-Topic: References:In-Reply-To:Mime-version:Content-type: Content-transfer-encoding:Reply-To; bh=aCR7THfu6D+FPUy3w7h/cfjpy /skz8E7pXtvSS9x19U=; b=gMydwIaeanfK+F7HhxBetG9Zy/SacNu8nqQnRwCVh wYToGUzx6UoZVFGFcAxXQ68OaR5QefOr/W8x/TQvpvd9Pe7RS1maJA1Y8Oa/XuHu gIEwlGmKEbENCwNNMyu6j1evKrklyoNxvR82wKwb546v4ziCJfecYuBb3I/jeAd+ dc= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; s=MDaemon; d=consulintel.es; c=simple; q=dns; h=from:message-id; b=QPFtljVmsZM8IcLY9cmPYlyCcl9SnhOJmsxkl7NNeTmBH2Eqn74u3JxA1A3E EVdYHxhg73IRFzakBH+qr1zQOWcPLcopUODN7ghc0CUtARCf8O5GmU+9N FSBDPO+fR4Iykv54cvIqEg2tuOrZpdM4bxtuxDTtDOHzcWwRj0TCjA=; X-MDAV-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:33:27 +0200 X-Spam-Processed: mail.consulintel.es, Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:33:27 +0200 Received: from [10.10.10.135] by mail.consulintel.es (MDaemon PRO v11.0.3) with ESMTP id md50005570947.msg for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:33:26 +0200 X-MDOP-RefID: re=0.000,fgs=0 (_st=1 _vt=0 _iwf=0) X-Authenticated-Sender: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-HashCash: 1:20:170928:md50005570947::ocPMzUQ3nUCyL4m+:0000CNq2 X-Return-Path: prvs=14445c1049=jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-Envelope-From: jordi.palet@consulintel.es X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: int-area@ietf.org User-Agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/f.26.0.170902 Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:33:25 +0200 From: JORDI PALET MARTINEZ To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> <12fe8ece-d1fb-cdaf-214c-8a5a66f76027@gmail.com> <2E8ABCD5-4D4F-4C6A-8FAC-31FF5F3C7BB9@consulintel.es> In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Reply-To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:33:31 -0000 Maybe, who knows, bute ven using it for many more things than just videos, = I always recall Tony Hain calculation: =E2=80=9Cif you project 32 B (2^35) people over the lifetime of IPv6, and a= llocate all of them 4 /48's at 50% routing efficiency, you get 2^10 version= s of that. If each of them took a year to build out, you are still well ove= r 500 years=E2=80=9D Somebody suggested me also to send this link: https://xkcd.com/865/ Regards, Jordi =20 -----Mensaje original----- De: Stewart Bryant Responder a: Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 16:29 Para: , Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. =20 =20 On 28/09/2017 14:23, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > I don=E2=80=99t think even in those 500 years, we will run out of IPv= 6 addresses, =20 I hope you are right, but: =20 I am sure that the original IPv4 designers thought that 2^32 was likely= =20 to be an infinity of IP addresses, but then the Internet was hugely=20 successful, and now they are all allocated. =20 I am also sure that the IEEE though that thought that 2^48 was likely t= o=20 be an infinity of MAC addresses, but then VMs were invented, and now=20 they are worried. =20 People are proposing to use IP addresses for all sorts of things other= =20 than host addresses. For example, video fragments was one idea presente= d=20 at the last IETF, but once that flood gate is opened, who knows what=20 people will be wanting to address with IPv6 addresses, and how many the= y=20 will need. =20 So whilst 2^128 seems a pretty safe bet, history is not with us. =20 - Stewart =20 =20 =20 ********************************************** IPv4 is over Are you ready for the new Internet ? http://www.consulintel.es The IPv6 Company This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or con= fidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the i= ndividual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, = copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if p= artially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be cons= idered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware t= hat any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this in= formation, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibi= ted, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the origin= al sender to inform about this communication and delete it. 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR01HT048 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:37:07 -0000 PiBIb3cgbWFueSB2ZXJzaW9ucyBvZiBJUCBjYW4gdGhlcmUgYmU/ICAod2hhdCBpcyB0aGUgc2l6 ZSBvZiB0aGUgc3BhY2U/KQ0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIHRoaXMgd2lsbCBiZSB0aGUgbGFzdCBvbmUsIGJl Y2F1c2UgaXQgY29tYmluZXMgYm90aCB2ZXJzaW9ucycgYWRkcmVzcyBzcGFjZS4NCg0KS2hhbGVk DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBBbGV4YW5kcmUgUGV0cmVzY3Ug W21haWx0bzphbGV4YW5kcmUucGV0cmVzY3VAZ21haWwuY29tXSANClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBT ZXB0ZW1iZXIgMjgsIDIwMTcgNDoyOSBQTQ0KVG86IEtoYWxlZCBPbWFyDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTog W0ludC1hcmVhXSBJUC1ub3QtdjEwDQoNCg0KDQpMZSAyOC8wOS8yMDE3IMOgIDE1OjQwLCBLaGFs 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[213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i6sm1587242edl.61.2017.09.28.07.48.19 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:48:20 -0700 (PDT) To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es, int-area@ietf.org References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> <12fe8ece-d1fb-cdaf-214c-8a5a66f76027@gmail.com> <2E8ABCD5-4D4F-4C6A-8FAC-31FF5F3C7BB9@consulintel.es> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <385687fe-fab1-3040-99bc-fb3ce3c513ae@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:48:16 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:48:25 -0000 On the other hand it is only  2^48 addresses per planet in just this universe. I have long since given us being surprised that practical infinities are frequently too small. - Stewart On 28/09/2017 15:33, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > Maybe, who knows, bute ven using it for many more things than just videos, I always recall Tony Hain calculation: > > “if you project 32 B (2^35) people over the lifetime of IPv6, and allocate all of them 4 /48's at 50% routing efficiency, you get 2^10 versions of that. If each of them took a year to build out, you are still well over 500 years” > > > Somebody suggested me also to send this link: > > https://xkcd.com/865/ > > Regards, > Jordi > > > -----Mensaje original----- > De: Stewart Bryant > Responder a: > Fecha: jueves, 28 de septiembre de 2017, 16:29 > Para: , > Asunto: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. > > > > On 28/09/2017 14:23, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > > I don’t think even in those 500 years, we will run out of IPv6 addresses, > > I hope you are right, but: > > I am sure that the original IPv4 designers thought that 2^32 was likely > to be an infinity of IP addresses, but then the Internet was hugely > successful, and now they are all allocated. > > I am also sure that the IEEE though that thought that 2^48 was likely to > be an infinity of MAC addresses, but then VMs were invented, and now > they are worried. > > People are proposing to use IP addresses for all sorts of things other > than host addresses. For example, video fragments was one idea presented > at the last IETF, but once that flood gate is opened, who knows what > people will be wanting to address with IPv6 addresses, and how many they > will need. > > So whilst 2^128 seems a pretty safe bet, history is not with us. > > - Stewart > > > > > > > ********************************************** > IPv4 is over > Are you ready for the new Internet ? > http://www.consulintel.es > The IPv6 Company > > This electronic message contains information which may be privileged or confidential. The information is intended to be for the exclusive use of the individual(s) named above and further non-explicilty authorized disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited and will be considered a criminal offense. If you are not the intended recipient be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the contents of this information, even if partially, including attached files, is strictly prohibited, will be considered a criminal offense, so you must reply to the original sender to inform about this communication and delete it. > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Thu Sep 28 07:54:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BA0891332E3 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:54:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.946 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.946 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKBto2dJLfpd for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:54:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (50-245-122-97-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [50.245.122.97]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 793F5133200 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 07:54:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=loggedin (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=184.157.84.200; From: "Susan Hares" To: "'Stewart Bryant'" , , References: <809BBA86-855E-4002-8435-92AC8A243733@fugue.com> <2ffea06d-b5f7-bfdd-3158-bc0afc17549c@gmail.com> <522A75E7-0786-49F4-B779-3A245DF5AAAE@consulintel.es> <12fe8ece-d1fb-cdaf-214c-8a5a66f76027@gmail.com> <2E8ABCD5-4D4F-4C6A-8FAC-31FF5F3C7BB9@consulintel.es> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:37:34 -0400 Message-ID: <012401d33867$532f1da0$f98d58e0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQG1F8uX1TMiAw4MbKBLjicsPQ0dRwGlGMUJAqk1PCACK8s1ZAGGhMBfAXKaz6wBBY/3a6Ky15wQ Content-Language: en-us X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:54:09 -0000 +1 to Stewart's comment. Think growth.=20 As one who argued for variable length address fields during the IPng = debates - and time has shown the success gives us continual growth in = MAC or IP addresses needed.=20 Since the IPng, we've figure out how to make short-cut addresses for = routing (mpls, bier, etc.) - so the argument that the routers cannot = handle it is no longer valid.=20 Cheerily, Sue Hares -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stewart = Bryant Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 10:29 AM To: jordi.palet@consulintel.es; int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv-not-10. On 28/09/2017 14:23, JORDI PALET MARTINEZ wrote: > I don=E2=80=99t think even in those 500 years, we will run out of IPv6 = > addresses, I hope you are right, but: I am sure that the original IPv4 designers thought that 2^32 was likely = to be an infinity of IP addresses, but then the Internet was hugely = successful, and now they are all allocated. I am also sure that the IEEE though that thought that 2^48 was likely to = be an infinity of MAC addresses, but then VMs were invented, and now = they are worried. People are proposing to use IP addresses for all sorts of things other = than host addresses. For example, video fragments was one idea presented = at the last IETF, but once that flood gate is opened, who knows what = people will be wanting to address with IPv6 addresses, and how many they = will need. So whilst 2^128 seems a pretty safe bet, history is not with us. - Stewart _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Thu Sep 28 08:36:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C87B3135148 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:04:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w-G2V0oYiuD1 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3AB8B135145 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:04:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id v3so407100pgv.3 for ; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:04:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=HPEVita6iAQFH4+J/RviYMM29SFWXX8gOwmBKNggG48=; b=lTw88pOzhuWVsr5ksHhMLS6z7fcX4oKvWfLQ44ntcW0F3Up48WJ55+GhjkvwvvGWXk 814UZdpD8ln1WO1gs5+eWn/owMzn0WPsLpJhGOF4HPY3+ZuZt4vZQ2CjuNj3QJBZNkkA YO4jOto3W/ge0yCs4Bd9fq8804aPbdEKqQfmDHnklDLfxCqdYNkeIVHm7ydpP7r/uq/u mnJ4laAo5rjhyaKD8Fit6rtr6rhdJkVeiW7n6nz0bg1GY9SFiP1LbcP0qST9lQslwNNZ 1lBztPDF1LJD1kd0hdlO90A3IYOqd5a4hSDCQg4FJZ1WhwM868Tz5ykUYuhpMIxighv2 /eIg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=HPEVita6iAQFH4+J/RviYMM29SFWXX8gOwmBKNggG48=; b=nDo2XoLh9+QyJXybZWwmeu4qNeuCBjV0jBzYU/ve+1iqw+qz8gxxDEoAiRRHr9s4k+ a/nF7EyyMvArPNIrwzuLzCuXJxbTYTtiFD1zFJfj9abCeIkpk1mZju1pnLCeRpN/rbv/ ucSUnWWoaAQTt3DStnxvbJtU7CuKkyJulGObr/h0MRIgr/UxAhJKeniTlKD4Mu1pw1VB BecEdnRjw10TN2/XEwGGnOwIMzn5g2jM1z1xEJ8Qe9cAhBfn5H+meWXN4SjJ6e25vRTM 8pKN7aEGthKochVmqfSMe7PsfqbOXZU5PYbemONRi+7xNPDSv7T519Aqs+QehU9BxXu1 bF3Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhCPWPvTEualFp4JM2uAyvChHyZUeBojgT4QMIF525Cf4/lVdnG Ptm/+19hN7a6i2hboSEY00cR12// X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QB0ZgwlqLQE03drG9LHTnb0NRXo4jDMWYSQHZd54PdwZRGD/ONG1/LyJBZuIEkYaHh+ZQaRcA== X-Received: by 10.99.191.75 with SMTP id i11mr2416104pgo.136.1506549850904; Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:04:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.16.224.219] ([209.97.127.34]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id i84sm22103186pfj.105.2017.09.27.15.04.08 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:04:09 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <03AB3EF5-3004-4BBD-96CB-E6550DFEABE8@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_52A0179B-FAD7-4DDA-9C1C-AA2A823973B8"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 15:04:06 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: int-area References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 08:36:50 -0700 Subject: Re: [Int-area] [v6ops] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 22:04:19 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_52A0179B-FAD7-4DDA-9C1C-AA2A823973B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi, I read the document and have some comments. Overall I think working on Provisioning Domains is fine in Int-Area, but = I think the document has issues that need to be resolved. I will leave = it for the w.g. chairs to decide if they need to be fixed before or = after adoption. Specific comments below. They range from serious to editorial. Bob >=20 > intarea P. Pfister, = Ed. > Internet-Draft = Cisco > Intended status: Informational D. = Schinazi I don=E2=80=99t think this can Informational. It defines an IPv6 RA = option and requests IANA allocations. It should be Standards Track. > Expires: January 29, 2018 T. = Pauly > = Apple > E. = Vyncke > = Cisco > B. = Bruneau > Ecole = Polytechnique > July 28, = 2017 >=20 >=20 > Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data > draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 >=20 > Abstract >=20 > An increasing number of hosts and networks are connected to the > Internet through multiple interfaces, some of which may provide > multiple ways to access the internet by the mean of multiple IPv6 > prefix configurations. >=20 > This document describes a way for hosts to retrieve additional > information about their network access characteristics. The set of > configuration items required to access the Internet is called a > Provisioning Domain (PvD) and is identified by a Fully Qualified > Domain Name (FQDN). This identifier, retrieved using a new Router > Advertisement (RA) option, is associated with the set of = information > included within the RA and may later be used to retrieve additional > information associated with the PvD by the mean of an HTTP request. >=20 > Status of This Memo >=20 > This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the > provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute > working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current = Internet- > Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. >=20 > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six = months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at = any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." >=20 > This Internet-Draft will expire on January 29, 2018. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 1] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > Copyright Notice >=20 > Copyright (c) 2017 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the > document authors. All rights reserved. >=20 > This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal > Provisions Relating to IETF Documents > (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of > publication of this document. Please review these documents > carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with = respect > to this document. Code Components extracted from this document = must > include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of > the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as > described in the Simplified BSD License. >=20 > Table of Contents >=20 > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 3 > 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 3 > 3. Provisioning Domain Identification using Router > Advertisements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 4 > 3.1. PvD ID Option for Router Advertisements . . . . . . . . . = 4 > 3.2. Router Behavior . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 5 > 3.3. Host Behavior . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 5 > 3.3.1. DHCPv6 configuration association . . . . . . . . . . = 6 > 3.3.2. DHCPv4 configuration association . . . . . . . . . . = 7 > 3.3.3. Interconnection Sharing by the Host . . . . . . . . . = 7 > 4. Provisioning Domain Additional Information . . . . . . . . . = 7 > 4.1. Retrieving the PvD Additional Information . . . . . . . . = 7 > 4.2. Providing the PvD Additional Information . . . . . . . . = 9 > 4.3. PvD Additional Information Format . . . . . . . . . . . . = 9 > 4.3.1. Connectivity Characteristics Information . . . . . . = 10 > 4.3.2. Private Extensions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 11 > 4.3.3. Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 11 > 5. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 11 > 6. Privacy Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 12 > 7. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 12 > 8. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 12 > 9. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 13 > 9.1. Normative references . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 13 > 9.2. Informative references . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 13 > Appendix A. Changelog . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 15 > A.1. Version 00 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 15 > A.2. Version 01 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 15 > A.3. Version 02 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 16 > Appendix B. Connection monetary cost . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 16 > B.1. Conditions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 17 > B.2. Price . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 17 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 2] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > B.3. Examples . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 18 > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . = 19 >=20 > 1. Introduction >=20 > It has become very common in modern networks that hosts have = internet > or more specific network access through different networking > interfaces, tunnels, or next-hop routers. The concept of > Provisioning Domain (PvD) was defined in [RFC7556] as a set of > network configuration information which can be used by hosts in = order > to access the network. >=20 > This specification provides a way to identify explicit PvDs with > Fully Qualified Domain Names called PvD IDs, which are included in = a > new Router Advertisement [RFC4861] option. This new option, when > present, is used to associate the correlated set of configuration > information with the identified PvD. It is worth noting that > multiple PvDs with different PvD IDs could be provisioned on any = host > interface, as well as noting that the same PvD ID could be used on > different interfaces in order to inform the host that both PvDs, on > different interfaces, ultimately provide identical services. >=20 > This document also introduces a way for hosts to retrieve = additional > information related to a specific PvD by the mean of an = HTTP-over-TLS > query using an URI derived from the PvD ID. The retrieved JSON > object contains additional network information that would typically > be considered unfit, or too large, to be directly included in the > Router Advertisements. This information can be used by the > networking stack, the applications, or even be partially displayed = to > the users (e.g., by displaying a localized network service name). I object to this inclusion of using HTTP to obtain additional = information. More specific comments later, but will make the mechanism = much less robust as it crosses many layers. I suspect it will also = create many security issues. > 2. Terminology >=20 > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "NOT RECOMMENDED", "MAY", = and > "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in > [RFC2119]. >=20 > In addition, this document uses the following terminology: >=20 > PvD: A Provisioning Domain, a set of network configuration > information; for more information, see [RFC7556]. >=20 > PvD ID: A Fully Qualified Domain Name (FQDN) used to identify a > PvD. >=20 > Explicit PvD: A PvD uniquely identified with a PvD ID. for more > information, see [RFC7556]. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 3] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > Implicit PvD: A PvD associated with a set of configuration > information that, in the absence of a PvD ID, is associated with > the advertising router. >=20 > 3. Provisioning Domain Identification using Router Advertisements >=20 > Each provisioning domain is identified by a PvD ID. The PvD ID is = a > Fully Qualified Domain Name (FQDN) which MUST belong to the network > operator in order to avoid ambiguity. The same PvD ID MAY be used = in > several access networks when the set of configuration information = is > identical (e.g. in all home networks subscribed to the same = service). >=20 > 3.1. PvD ID Option for Router Advertisements >=20 > This document introduces a new Router Advertisement (RA) option > called the PvD ID Router Advertisement Option, used to convey the > FQDN identifying a given PvD. >=20 > 0 1 2 3 > 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Type | Length |H|L| Reserved | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > | Sequence | ... > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ PvD ID FQDN ... > ... ... > ... +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ > ... | Padding | > +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ >=20 > PvD ID Router Advertisements Option format >=20 > Type : (8 bits) To be defined by IANA. >=20 > Length : (8 bits) The length of the option (including the = Type > and Length fields) in units of 8 octets. >=20 > H-flag : (1 bit) Whether some PvD Additional Information is > made available through HTTP over TLS, as described in Section 4. >=20 > L-flag : (1 bit) Whether the router is also providing IPv4 > access using DHCPv4 (see Section 3.3.2). This is the first instance of an IPv6 extension including information = about IPv4 I can remember. I find this troublesome. As far as I can = tell, the IETF approach has been to keep the two protocols separate. = This builds in a dependency that will make turning off IPv4 difficult in = the future. Also, the text "router is also providing IPv4 access using DHCPv4=E2=80=9D= doesn=E2=80=99t parse well. Router don=E2=80=99t provide IPv4 access = by using DHCPv4. DHCPv4 may be used to provide IPv4 addresses. Not = sure what this is intended to mean. >=20 > Reserved : (14 bits) Reserved for later use. It MUST be set = to > zero by the sender and ignored by the receiver. >=20 > Sequence : (16 bits) Sequence number for the PvD Additional > Information, as described in Section 4. Is 16 bits long enough? What is the expected frequency of using this, = what happens if it wraps, etc.? Has there been any analysis? >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 4] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > PvD ID FQDN : An ASCII string representation of the FQDN used as > PvD ID. The string ends at the first byte set to zero, or the = end > of the option, whichever comes first. Is this a standard way of representing FQDNs? Shouldn=E2=80=99t this = reference Section 3.1 of [RFC1035]. Or is some other new representation = being used? >=20 > Padding : Zero or more padding octets such as to set the = option > length (Type and Length fields included) to eight times the = value > of the Length field. It MUST be set to zero by the sender and > ignored by the receiver. >=20 > Routers MUST NOT include more than one PvD ID Router Advertisement > Option in each RA. In case multiple PvD ID options are found in a > given RA, hosts MUST ignore all but the first PvD ID option. >=20 > Note: The existence and/or size of the sequence number is subject = to > discussion. The validity of a PvD Additional Information object is > included in the object itself, but this only allows for 'pull = based' > updates, whereas the RA options usually provide 'push based' = updates. >=20 > 3.2. Router Behavior >=20 > A router MAY insert at most one PvD ID Option in its RAs. The I think this should say =E2=80=9CA router MAY insert only one PvD ID = Option in a RA=E2=80=9D. I found the current text to not be clear. > included PvD ID is associated with all the other options included = in > the same RA (e.g., Prefix Information [RFC4861], Recursive DNS = Server > [RFC6106], Routing Information [RFC4191] options). >=20 > In order to provide multiple independent PvDs, a router MUST send > multiple RAs using different source link-local addresses (LLA) (as > proposed in [I-D.bowbakova-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming]), each = of This is creating a normative reference dependency, but the document is = listed as Informational. > which MAY include a PvD ID option. In such cases, routers MAY > originate the different RAs using the same datalink layer address. >=20 > If the router is actually a VRRP instance [RFC5798], then the > procedure is identical except that the virtual datalink layer = address > is used as well as the virtual IPv6 addresses. >=20 > 3.3. Host Behavior >=20 > RAs are used to configure IPv6 hosts. When a host receives an RA That not quite right, RAs do not configure IPv6 hosts, they provide = information to IPv6 hosts. > message including a PvD ID Option, it MUST associate all the > configuration objects which are updated by the received RA (e.g., > Prefix Information [RFC4861], Recursive DNS Server [RFC6106], = Routing > Information [RFC4191] options) with the PvD identified by the PvD = ID > Option, even if some objects are already ssociated with a different > explicit or implicit PvD. The correct reference is RFC8106, not RFC6101. The title is "IPv6 = Router Advertisement Options for DNS Configuration=E2=80=9D Are there any other RA options should should be considered? >=20 > If the received RA does not include a PvD ID Option, the host MUST > associate the configuration objects which are updated by the = received > RA with an implicit PvD, even if some objects were already = associated >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 5] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > with a different explicit or implicit PvD. This implicit PvD is > identified by the link-local address of the router sending the RA = and > the interface on which the RA was received. This text is saying that all current deployed IPv6 nodes much do this. = I think the text should be saying that nodes implementing this document = should do this. Hard to changed current devices :-( >=20 > This document does not update the way Router Advertisement options > are processed. But in addition to the option processing defined in > other documents, hosts implementing this specification MUST = associate > each created or updated object (e.g. address, default route, more > specific route, DNS server list) with the PvD associated with the > received RA. >=20 > Note: There is a discussion whether there can be multiple implicit > PvDs on a single interface (i.e. whether the router link-local > address should be used to identify the implicit PvDs). >=20 > While resolving names, executing the default address selection Should a reference be added that says how to resolve names? > algorithm [RFC6724] or executing the default router selection > algorithm ([RFC2461], [RFC4191] and [RFC8028]), hosts MAY consider > only the configuration associated with an arbitrary set of PvDs. >=20 > For example, a host MAY associate a given process with a specific > PvD, or a specific set of PvDs, while associating another process > with another PvD. A PvD-aware application might also be able to > select, on a per-connection basis, which PvDs should be used for a > given connection. In particular, constrained devices such as small > battery operated devices (e.g. IoT), or devices with limited CPU or > memory resources may purposefully use a single PvD while ignoring > some received RAs containing different PvD IDs. This seems somewhat vague. Does it belong here? >=20 > The way an application expresses its desire to use a given PvD, or = a > set of PvDs, or the way this selection is enforced, is out of the > scope of this document. Useful insights about these considerations > can be found in [I-D.kline-mif-mpvd-api-reqs]. >=20 > 3.3.1. DHCPv6 configuration association >=20 > When a host retrieves configuration elements using DHCPv6, they = MUST > be associated with the explicit or implicit PvD of the RA received = on > the same interface, using the same link-local address, and with the > O-flag set [RFC4861]. If no such PvD is found, or whenever = multiple > different PvDs are found, the host behavior is unspecified. Perhaps something more specific should be describe in this case. >=20 > This process requires hosts to keep track of received RAs, = associated > PvD IDs, and routers link-local addresses. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 6] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > 3.3.2. DHCPv4 configuration association >=20 > When a host retrieves configuration elements from DHCPv4, they MUST > be associated with the explicit PvD received on the same interface, > whose PVD ID Options L-flag is set and, in the case of a non point- > to-point link, using the same link-layer address. If no such PvD = is > found, or whenever multiple different PvDs are found, the > configuration elements coming from DHCPv4 MUST be associated with = an > IPv4-only implicit PvD identified by the interface on which the > DHCPv4 transaction happened. Same comments above about including IPv4 information, and using IPv6 to = manage IPv4. I suggest removing it. >=20 > 3.3.3. Interconnection Sharing by the Host >=20 > The situation when a host becomes also a router by acting as a = router > or ND proxy on a different interface (such as WiFi) to share the > connectivity of another interface (such as cellular), also known as > "tethering" is TBD but it is expected that the one or several PvD > associated to the shared interface will also be advertised to the > clients. See Section 2 of RFC8200 and the Note at the end of the section. A host = doesn=E2=80=99t become a router=E2=80=A6. >=20 > 4. Provisioning Domain Additional Information >=20 > Once a new PvD ID is discovered, it may be used to retrieve > additional information about the characteristics of the provided > connectivity. This set of information is called PvD Additional > Information, and is encoded as a JSON object [RFC7159]. >=20 > The purpose of this additional set of information is to securely > provide additional information to hosts about the connectivity that > is provided using a given interface and source address pair. It > typically includes data that would be considered too large, or not > critical enough, to be provided within an RA option. The = information > contained in this object MAY be used by the operating system, = network > libraries, applications, or users, in order to decide which set of > PvDs should be used for which connection, as described in > Section 3.3. >=20 > 4.1. Retrieving the PvD Additional Information >=20 > When the H-flag of the PvD ID Option is set, hosts MAY attempt to > retrieve the PvD Additional Information associated with a given PvD > by performing an HTTP over TLS [RFC2818] GET query to = https:// >/.well-known/pvd [RFC5785]. Inversely, hosts MUST NOT do so > whenever the H-flag is not set. I think creates all kinds of problem and security issues by having = something that is learned in an RA initing getting configuration via = HTTP. Will this work if the RA processing is done in the kernel? Is there really a problem including enough information in an RA? Is = there really going to be more than ~1300 bytes in the common case? This = mechanism is adding a lot of complexity to make this work. Who decides what the /.well-known/pvd is, how does it get = provisioned in a router? What if a bad actor on the LAN sends it? = What happens if there isn=E2=80=99t access to the Internet at the time = the RA is received? Etc., etc. >=20 > Note: Should the PvD AI retrieval be a MAY or a SHOULD ? Could the > object contain critical data, or should it only contain = informational > data ? >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 7] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > Note that the DNS name resolution of as well as the actual > query MUST be performed using the PvD associated with the PvD ID. = In > other words, the name resolution, source address selection, as well > as the next-hop router selection MUST be performed while using > exclusively the set of configuration information attached with the > PvD, as defined in Section 3.3. In some cases, it may therefore be > necessary to wait for an address to be available for use (e.g., = once > the Duplicate Address Detection or DHCPv6 processes are complete) > before initiating the HTTP over TLS query. >=20 > If the HTTP status of the answer is greater than or equal to 400 = the > host MUST abandon and consider that there is no additional PvD > information. If the HTTP status of the answer is between 300 > included and 399 included it MUST follow the redirection(s). If = the > HTTP status of the answer is between 200 included and 299 included > the host MAY get a file containing a single JSON object. When a = JSON > object could not be retrieved, an error message SHOULD be logged = and/ > or displayed in a rate-limited fashion. My initial impression when I read this was =E2=80=9CWOW=E2=80=9D. = Should this really be defining rules on how HTTP errors are processed? = Is there a reference to these error codes? Are they standard, or common = practice? >=20 > After retrieval of the PvD Additional Information, hosts MUST watch > the PvD ID Sequence field for change. In case a different value = than > the one in the RA Sequence field is observed, or whenever the > validity time included in the PVD Additional Information JSON = object > is expired, hosts MUST either perform a new query and retrieve a = new > version of the object, or deprecate the object and stop using it. >=20 > Hosts retrieving a new PvD Additional Information object MUST check > for the presence and validity of the mandatory fields Section 4.3. = A > retrieved object including an outdated expiration time or missing a > mandatory element MUST be ignored. In order to avoid traffic = spikes > toward the server hosting the PvD Additional Information when an > object expires, a host which last retrieved an object at a time A, > including a validity time B, SHOULD renew the object at a uniformly > random time in the interval [(B-A)/2,A]. >=20 > The PvD Additional Information object includes a set of IPv6 = prefixes > which MUST be checked against all the Prefix Information Options > advertised in the Router Advertisement. If any of the prefixes > included in the Prefix Information Options is not included in at > least one of the listed prefixes, the PvD associated with the = tested > prefix MUST be considered unsafe and MUST NOT be used. While this > does not prevent a malicious network provider, it does complicate > some attack scenarios, and may help detecting misconfiguration. >=20 > The server providing the JSON files SHOULD also check whether the > client address is part of the prefixes listed into the additional > information and SHOULD return a 403 response code if there is no >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 8] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > match. The server MAY also use the client address to select the > right JSON object to be returned. >=20 > 4.2. Providing the PvD Additional Information >=20 > Whenever the H-flag is set in the PvD RA Option, a valid PvD > Additional Information object MUST be made available to all hosts Who or what does this =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D apply to? I don=E2=80=99t = understand what is intended. > receiving the RA. In particular, when a captive portal is present, > hosts MUST still be allowed to access the object, even before = logging > into the captive portal. >=20 > Routers MAY increment the PVD ID Sequence number in order to inform > host that a new PvD Additional Information object is available and > should be retrieved. >=20 > 4.3. PvD Additional Information Format >=20 > The PvD Additional Information is a JSON object. >=20 > The following array presents the mandatory keys which MUST be > included in the object: >=20 > = +----------+-------------------+-----------+------------------------+ > | JSON key | Description | Type | Example = | > = +----------+-------------------+-----------+------------------------+ > | name | Human-readable | UTF-8 | "Awesome Wifi" = | > | | service name | string | = | > | expires | Date after which | [RFC3339] | "2017-07-23T06:00:00Z" = | > | | this object is | | = | > | | not valid | | = | > | prefixes | Array of IPv6 | Array of | ["2001:db8:1::/48", = | > | | prefixes valid | strings | "2001:db8:4::/48"] = | > | | for this PVD | | = | > = +----------+-------------------+-----------+=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2= =80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80=94=E2=80= =94+ Is the specification of this adequate? What defines UTF-8? Etc. >=20 > A retrieved object which does not include a valid string associated > with the "name" key at the root of the object, or a valid date > associated with the "expiration" key, also at the root of the = object, > MUST be ignored. In such cases, an error message SHOULD be logged > and/or displayed in a rate-limited fashion. >=20 > The following table presents some optional keys which MAY be = included > in the object. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 9] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > = +-----------------+-----------------------+---------+---------------+ > | JSON key | Description | Type | Example = | > = +-----------------+-----------------------+---------+---------------+ > | localizedName | Localized user- | UTF-8 | "Wifi Genial" = | > | | visible service name, | string | = | > | | language can be | | = | > | | selected based on the | | = | > | | HTTP Accept-Language | | = | > | | header in the | | = | > | | request. | | = | > | noInternet | No Internet, set when | boolean | true = | > | | the PvD only provides | | = | > | | restricted access to | | = | > | | a set of services. | | = | > | characteristics | Connectivity | JSON | See Section = | > | | characteristics | object | 4.3.1 = | > | metered | metered, when the | boolean | false = | > | | access volume is | | = | > | | limited. | | = | > = +-----------------+-----------------------+---------+---------------+ >=20 > It is worth noting that the JSON format allows for extensions. > Whenever an unknown key is encountered, it MUST be ignored along = with > its associated elements. >=20 > 4.3.1. Connectivity Characteristics Information >=20 > The following set of keys can be used to signal certain > characteristics of the connection towards the PvD. >=20 > They should reflect characteristics of the overall access = technology > which is not limited to the link the host is connected to, but = rather > a combination of the link technology, CPE upstream connectivity, = and > further quality of service considerations. >=20 > = +---------------+--------------+---------------------+--------------+ > | JSON key | Description | Type | Example = | > = +---------------+--------------+---------------------+--------------+ > | maxThroughput | Maximum | object({down(int), | {"down": = | > | | achievable | up(int)}) in kb/s | 10000, "up": = | > | | throughput | | 5000} = | > | minLatency | Minimum | object({down(int), | {"down": 10, = | > | | achievable | up(int)}) in ms | "up": 20} = | > | | latency | | = | > | rl | Maximum | object({down(int), | {"down": = | > | | achievable | up(int)}) in losses | 0.1, "up": = | > | | reliability | every 1000 packets | 1} = | > = +---------------+--------------+---------------------+--------------+ >=20 >=20 Are there any units associated with this? For example, is it bps, KBps, = MBps? Time in seconds, days, years, msec? What does =E2=80=9CMax = achievable reliability=E2=80=9D even mean? >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 10] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > 4.3.2. Private Extensions >=20 > JSON keys starting with "x-" are reserved for private use and can = be > utilized to provide information that is specific to vendor, user or > enterprise. It is RECOMMENDED to use one of the patterns "x-FQDN- > KEY" or "x-PEN-KEY" where FQDN is a fully qualified domain name or > PEN is a private enterprise number [PEN] under control of the = author > of the extension to avoid collisions. >=20 > 4.3.3. Example >=20 > Here are two examples based on the keys defined in this section. >=20 > { > "name": "Foo Wireless", > "localizedName": "Foo-France Wifi", > "expires": "2017-07-23T06:00:00Z", > "prefixes" : ["2001:db8:1::/48", "2001:db8:4::/48"], > "characteristics": { > "maxThroughput": { "down":200000, "up": 50000 }, > "minLatency": { "down": 0.1, "up": 1 } > } > } >=20 > { > "name": "Bar 4G", > "localizedName": "Bar US 4G", > "expires": "2017-07-23T06:00:00Z", > "prefixes": ["2001:db8:1::/48", "2001:db8:4::/48"], > "metered": true, > "characteristics": { > "maxThroughput": { "down":80000, "up": 20000 } > } > } >=20 > 5. Security Considerations >=20 > Although some solutions such as IPsec or SEND [RFC3971] can be used > in order to secure the IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Protocol, actual > deployments largely rely on link layer or physical layer security > mechanisms (e.g. 802.1x [IEEE8021X]) in conjunction with RA Guard > [RFC6105]. >=20 > This specification does not improve the Neighbor Discovery Protocol > security model, but extends the purely link-local configuration > retrieval mechanisms with HTTP-over-TLS communications. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 11] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > During the exchange, the server authenticity is verified by the = mean > of a certificate, validated based on the FQDN found in the Router > Advertisement (e.g. using a list of pre-installed CA certificates, = or > DNSSec [RFC4035] with DNS Based Authentication of Named Entities > [RFC6698]). This authentication creates a secure binding between = the > information provided by the trusted Router Advertisement, and the > HTTP server. But this does not mean the Advertising Router and the > PvD server belong to the same entity. How is the certificate provisioned? Who does it? Who pre-installed = them? In an IoT device? This needs to be fleshed out in the main part of the document. >=20 > The IPv6 prefixes list included in the PvD Additional Information > JSON object is used to validate that the prefixes included in the > Router Advertisements are really part of the PvD. An adversarial > router willing to fake the use of a given explicit PvD, without any > access to the actual PvD, would need to perform NAT66 in order to > circumvent this check. >=20 > It is also RECOMMENDED that the PvD server checks the source > addresses of incoming connexions (see Section 4.1). This check > ensures that the internet access provided by any router advertising = a > given PvD eventually reaches the internet using the actual PvD > (Tunneling can still be used). >=20 > For privacy reasons, it is desirable that the PvD Additional > Information object may only be retrieved by the hosts using the = given > PvD. Host identity SHOULD be validated based on the client address > that is used during the HTTP query. The Security Considerations should be describing issues, not defining = mechanisms. The later should be in the document. See: RFC3552 = "Guidelines for Writing RFC Text on Security Considerations=E2=80=9D. >=20 > 6. Privacy Considerations >=20 > TBD > 7. IANA Considerations >=20 > IANA is kindly requested to allocate a new IPv6 Neighbor Discovery > option number for the PvD ID Router Advertisement option. >=20 > The URI used to retrieve the PvD Additional Information JSON object > is the well known URI (see [RFC5785]) with the URI suffix "pvd". >=20 > TBD: JSON keys will need a new registry. This will have to be defined here. >=20 > 8. Acknowledgements >=20 > Many thanks to M. Stenberg and S. Barth for their earlier work: > [I-D.stenberg-mif-mpvd-dns]. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 12] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > Thanks also to Ray Bellis, Lorenzo Colitti, Thierry Danis, Marcus > Keane, Erik Kline, Jen Lenkova, Mark Townsley, James Woodyatt and > Mikael Abrahamson for useful and interesting discussions. >=20 > Finally, many thanks to Thierry Danis for his implementation work > ([github]), Tom Jones for his integration effort into the Neat > project and Rigil Salim for his implementation work. >=20 > 9. References >=20 > 9.1. Normative references >=20 > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. >=20 > [RFC2461] Narten, T., Nordmark, E., and W. Simpson, "Neighbor > Discovery for IP Version 6 (IPv6)", RFC 2461, December > 1998. >=20 > [RFC2818] Rescorla, E., "HTTP Over TLS", RFC 2818, DOI 10.17487/ > RFC2818, May 2000, > . >=20 > [RFC4861] Narten, T., Nordmark, E., Simpson, W., and H. Soliman, > "Neighbor Discovery for IP version 6 (IPv6)", RFC 4861, > September 2007. >=20 > [RFC7159] Bray, T., Ed., "The JavaScript Object Notation (JSON) = Data > Interchange Format", RFC 7159, DOI 10.17487/RFC7159, = March > 2014, . >=20 > 9.2. Informative references >=20 > [RFC3339] Klyne, G. and C. Newman, "Date and Time on the Internet: > Timestamps", RFC 3339, DOI 10.17487/RFC3339, July 2002, > . >=20 > [RFC3971] Arkko, J., Kempf, J., Zill, B., and P. Nikander, "SEcure > Neighbor Discovery (SEND)", RFC 3971, March 2005. >=20 > [RFC4035] Arends, R., Austein, R., Larson, M., Massey, D., and S. > Rose, "Protocol Modifications for the DNS Security > Extensions", RFC 4035, DOI 10.17487/RFC4035, March 2005, > . >=20 > [RFC4191] Draves, R. and D. Thaler, "Default Router Preferences = and > More-Specific Routes", RFC 4191, November 2005. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 13] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > [RFC5785] Nottingham, M. and E. Hammer-Lahav, "Defining Well-Known > Uniform Resource Identifiers (URIs)", RFC 5785, DOI > 10.17487/RFC5785, April 2010, > . >=20 > [RFC5798] Nadas, S., Ed., "Virtual Router Redundancy Protocol = (VRRP) > Version 3 for IPv4 and IPv6", RFC 5798, DOI 10.17487/ > RFC5798, March 2010, > . >=20 > [RFC6105] Levy-Abegnoli, E., Van de Velde, G., Popoviciu, C., and = J. > Mohacsi, "IPv6 Router Advertisement Guard", RFC 6105, = DOI > 10.17487/RFC6105, February 2011, > . >=20 > [RFC6106] Jeong, J., Park, S., Beloeil, L., and S. Madanapalli, > "IPv6 Router Advertisement Options for DNS = Configuration", > RFC 6106, November 2010. >=20 > [RFC6698] Hoffman, P. and J. Schlyter, "The DNS-Based = Authentication > of Named Entities (DANE) Transport Layer Security (TLS) > Protocol: TLSA", RFC 6698, DOI 10.17487/RFC6698, August > 2012, . >=20 > [RFC6724] Thaler, D., Draves, R., Matsumoto, A., and T. Chown, > "Default Address Selection for Internet Protocol Version = 6 > (IPv6)", RFC 6724, September 2012. >=20 > [RFC7556] Anipko, D., Ed., "Multiple Provisioning Domain > Architecture", RFC 7556, DOI 10.17487/RFC7556, June = 2015, > . >=20 > [RFC8028] Baker, F. and B. Carpenter, "First-Hop Router Selection = by > Hosts in a Multi-Prefix Network", RFC 8028, DOI = 10.17487/ > RFC8028, November 2016, > . >=20 > [I-D.bowbakova-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming] > Baker, F., Bowers, C., and J. Linkova, "Enterprise > Multihoming using Provider-Assigned Addresses without > Network Prefix Translation: Requirements and Solution", > draft-bowbakova-rtgwg-enterprise-pa-multihoming-01 (work > in progress), October 2016. >=20 > [I-D.stenberg-mif-mpvd-dns] > Stenberg, M. and S. Barth, "Multiple Provisioning = Domains > using Domain Name System", = draft-stenberg-mif-mpvd-dns-00 > (work in progress), October 2015. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 14] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > [I-D.kline-mif-mpvd-api-reqs] > Kline, E., "Multiple Provisioning Domains API > Requirements", draft-kline-mif-mpvd-api-reqs-00 (work in > progress), November 2015. >=20 > [PEN] IANA, "Private Enterprise Numbers", = assignments/enterprise-numbers>. >=20 > [IEEE8021X] > IEEE, "IEEE Standards for Local and Metropolitan Area > Networks: Port based Network Access Control, IEEE Std", = . >=20 > [github] Cisco, "IPv6-mPvD github repository", = IPv6-mPvD>. >=20 > Appendix A. Changelog >=20 > Note to RFC Editors: Remove this section before publication. >=20 > A.1. Version 00 >=20 > Initial version of the draft. Edited by Basile Bruneau + Eric = Vyncke > and based on Basile's work. >=20 > A.2. Version 01 >=20 > Major rewrite intended to focus on the the retained solution based = on > corridors, online, and WG discussions. Edited by Pierre Pfister. > The following list only includes major changes. >=20 > PvD ID is an FQDN retrieved using a single RA option. This = option > contains a sequence number for push-based updates, a new H-flag, > and a L-flag in order to link the PvD with the IPv4 DHCP server. >=20 > A lifetime is included in the PvD ID option. >=20 > Detailed Hosts and Routers specifications. >=20 > Additional Information is retrieved using HTTP-over-TLS when the > PvD ID Option H-flag is set. Retrieving the object is optional. >=20 > The PvD Additional Information object includes a validity date. >=20 > DNS-based approach is removed as well as the DNS-based encoding = of > the PvD Additional Information. >=20 > Major cut in the list of proposed JSON keys. This document may = be > extended later if need be. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 15] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > Monetary discussion is moved to the appendix. >=20 > Clarification about the 'prefixes' contained in the additional > information. >=20 > Clarification about the processing of DHCPv6. >=20 > A.3. Version 02 >=20 > The FQDN is now encoded with ASCII format (instead of DNS = binary) > in the RA option. >=20 > The PvD ID option lifetime is removed from the object. >=20 > Use well known URI "https:///.well-known/pvd" >=20 > Reference RFC3339 for JSON timestamp format. >=20 > The PvD ID Sequence field has been extended to 16 bits. >=20 > Modified host behavior for DHCPv4 and DHCPv6. >=20 > Removed IKEv2 section. >=20 > Removed mention of RFC7710 Captive Portal option. A new I.D. > will be proposed to address the captive portal use case. >=20 > Appendix B. Connection monetary cost I suggest removing this Appendix. It=E2=80=99s not mentioned in the = rest of the document. The Area Directors should decide if it=E2=80=99s = even within scope of this working group. >=20 > NOTE: This section is included as a request for comment on the > potential use and syntax. >=20 > The billing of a connection can be done in a lot of different ways. > The user can have a global traffic threshold per month, after which > his throughput is limited, or after which he/she pays each = megabyte. > He/she can also have an unlimited access to some websites, or an > unlimited access during the weekends. >=20 > An option is to split the bill in elementary billings, which have > conditions (a start date, an end date, a destination IP = address...). > The global billing is an ordered list of elementary billings. To > know the cost of a transmission, the host goes through the list, = and > the first elementary billing whose the conditions are fulfilled = gives > the cost. If no elementary billing conditions match the request, = the > host MUST make no assumption about the cost. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 16] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > B.1. Conditions >=20 > Here are the potential conditions for an elementary billing. All > conditions MUST be fulfill. >=20 > = +-----------+-------------+---------------+-------------------------+ > | Key | Description | Type | JSON Example = | > = +-----------+-------------+---------------+-------------------------+ > | beginDate | Date before | ISO 8601 | "1977-04-22T06:00:00Z" = | > | | which the | | = | > | | billing is | | = | > | | not valid | | = | > | endDate | Date after | ISO 8601 | "1977-04-22T06:00:00Z" = | > | | which the | | = | > | | billing is | | = | > | | not valid | | = | > | domains | FQDNs whose | array(string) | ["deezer.com","spotify. = | > | | the billing | | com"] = | > | | is limited | | = | > | prefixes4 | IPv4 | array(string) | ["78.40.123.182/32","78 = | > | | prefixes | | .40.123.183/32"] = | > | | whose the | | = | > | | billing is | | = | > | | limited | | = | > | prefixes6 | IPv6 | array(string) | ["2a00:1450:4007:80e::2 = | > | | prefixes | | 00e/64"] = | > | | whose the | | = | > | | billing is | | = | > | | limited | | = | > = +-----------+-------------+---------------+-------------------------+ >=20 > B.2. Price >=20 > Here are the different possibilities for the cost of an elementary > billing. A missing key means "all/unlimited/unrestricted". If the > elementary billing selected has a trafficRemaining of 0 kb, then it > means that the user has no access to the network. Actually, if the > last elementary billing has a trafficRemaining parameter, it means > that when the user will reach the threshold, he/she will not have > access to the network anymore. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 17] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > = +------------------+------------------+--------------+--------------+ > | Key | Description | Type | JSON Example = | > = +------------------+------------------+--------------+--------------+ > | pricePerGb | The price per | float | 2 = | > | | Gigabit | (currency | = | > | | | per Gb) | = | > | currency | The currency | ISO 4217 | "EUR" = | > | | used | | = | > | throughputMax | The maximum | float (kb/s) | 100000 = | > | | achievable | | = | > | | throughput | | = | > | trafficRemaining | The traffic | float (kB) | 12000000 = | > | | remaining | | = | > = +------------------+------------------+--------------+--------------+ >=20 > B.3. Examples >=20 > Example for a user with 20 GB per month for 40 EUR, then reach a > threshold, and with unlimited data during weekends and to > example.com: >=20 > [ > { > "domains": ["example.com"] > }, > { > "prefixes4": ["78.40.123.182/32","78.40.123.183/32"] > }, > { > "beginDate": "2016-07-16T00:00:00Z", > "endDate": "2016-07-17T23:59:59Z", > }, > { > "beginDate": "2016-06-20T00:00:00Z", > "endDate": "2016-07-19T23:59:59Z", > "trafficRemaining": 12000000 > }, > { > "throughputMax": 100000 > } > ] >=20 > If the host tries to download data from example.com, the conditions > of the first elementary billing are fulfilled, so the host takes = this > elementary billing, finds no cost indication in it and so deduces > that it is totally free. If the host tries to exchange data with > foobar.com and the date is 2016-07-14T19:00:00Z, the conditions of > the first, second and third elementary billing are not fulfilled. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 18] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > But the conditions of the fourth are. So the host takes this > elementary billing and sees that there is a threshold, 12 GB are > remaining. >=20 > Another example for a user abroad, who has 3 GB per year abroad, = and > then pay each MB: >=20 > [ > { > "beginDate": "2016-02-10T00:00:00Z", > "endDate": "2017-02-09T23:59:59Z", > "trafficRemaining": 3000000 > }, > { > "pricePerGb": 30, > "currency": "EUR" > } > ] >=20 > Authors' Addresses >=20 > Pierre Pfister (editor) > Cisco > 11 Rue Camille Desmoulins > Issy-les-Moulineaux 92130 > France >=20 > Email: ppfister@cisco.com >=20 >=20 > David Schinazi > Apple >=20 > Email: dschinazi@apple.com >=20 >=20 > Tommy Pauly > Apple >=20 > Email: tpauly@apple.com >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 19] > Internet-Draft Provisioning Domains July = 2017 >=20 >=20 > Eric Vyncke > Cisco > De Kleetlaan, 6 > Diegem 1831 > Belgium >=20 > Email: evyncke@cisco.com >=20 >=20 > Basile Bruneau > Ecole Polytechnique > Vannes 56000 > France >=20 > Email: basile.bruneau@polytechnique.edu >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Pfister, et al. Expires January 29, 2018 [Page = 20] --Apple-Mail=_52A0179B-FAD7-4DDA-9C1C-AA2A823973B8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZzCBXAAoJEK7rdBF357uoBcgIAJ6ni07Ut34jhylsIQ1znbKW UiEgLdyIQErPN8Y2apWJkcwK2YAEpRenzIXSS0khqWWcfMyFvlMHTjCY9jIVirBN BZTI37V2sPbQ6Fk+KojRbtUFefGBSQ8cAmJknd6/h14XkTjWxodZK/8abDMGDexh ord/O2XjoupvHXIjWSMzxMZw+wApwWtYY6VbCcZ/s4W9tGhfLmJmPaG/uP386k91 6U3WKCJ4Am4LbuHxCa33lcUWQwTFyKFZOo8CVELoPp/iA/uHtMq0QBSU2+rat62J 6yvrQbHe56+HMqXxt/SxdibzSVELEiBS++iQyH/l3WVD5H61bvVCuFtaqvHpkT4= =9l0L -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_52A0179B-FAD7-4DDA-9C1C-AA2A823973B8-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 08:37:35 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost 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Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:37:34 -0000 SXMgdGhlcmUgYW55IHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24gZm9yIHRoZSBJLUQgbmFtZSBvdGhlciB0aGFuIElQdjEw Pw0KDQpLaGFsZWQNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEFsZXhhbmRy ZSBQZXRyZXNjdSBbbWFpbHRvOmFsZXhhbmRyZS5wZXRyZXNjdUBnbWFpbC5jb21dIA0KU2VudDog VGh1cnNkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAyOCwgMjAxNyA0OjI5IFBNDQpUbzogS2hhbGVkIE9tYXINClN1 YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbSW50LWFyZWFdIElQLW5vdC12MTANCg0KDQoNCkxlIDI4LzA5LzIwMTcgw6Ag MTU6NDAsIEtoYWxlZCBPbWFyIGEgw6ljcml0IDoNCj4gQWxleCwNCj4gDQo+PiBJIGRvbnQgdW5k ZXJzdGFuZCB0aGF0IC0gY2FuIHlvdSBwbGVhc2UgcmVwZWF0Pw0KPiANCj4gV2UgZGlkbid0IHRy eSB0byBoYXZlIGEgV0cgb3IgZXZlbiBhIG1haWwgbGlzdCBmb3IgSVB2MTAgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMg DQo+IHNvIHdlIGNhbiB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIHdobyBpcyBwYXJ0aWNpcGF0aW5nIGFuZCBpZiB0aGVy 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cmVhQGlldGYub3JnIA0KPj4+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8v aW50LWFyZWENCj4+PiANCj4+IA0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX18gSW50LWFyZWEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IA0KPj4gSW50LWFyZWFAaWV0Zi5v cmcgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbnQtYXJlYQ0KPj4gDQo= From nobody Thu Sep 28 09:24:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A123132FB1 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:24:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I1r1izBKcFtV for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9221F13207A for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:24:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SGOVJw011425; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:24:31 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 3C69620BEBB; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:24:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E7F220BE94; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:24:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.142] ([132.166.84.142]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SGOU6C020388; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:24:30 +0200 To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <1c180c44-51aa-5223-001b-83ee4f6554c7@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:24:30 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:24:37 -0000 Le 28/09/2017 à 16:37, Khaled Omar a écrit : >> How many versions of IP can there be? (what is the size of the >> space?) > > I think this will be the last one, because it combines both versions' > address space. Khaled - I read you; it sounds overly optimistic about our capability to solve very many problems with just one version number :-) I am not so optimistic about my own capability to achieve that. But, if I may come back to my question of how many versions of IP can there be. The "Version" field in both the IPv6 and IPv4 Header Formats is 4 bits long, where we could encode maximum 16 versions for IP. IPv4 was in 1981, IPv10 in 2017, and so very soon we may reach IPv16. Fearing that exhaustion, I would try to look at other things than at the Version number in IP. I would maybe look in the other fields of IPv6. Maybe look at the Extension Headers. They are made especially for those, including myself, would like to extend IPv6 further and beyond. The mechanism that you describe in section 3.1 "IPv6 Host to IPv4 Host" can happen with an extension header, rather than with the base header where the Version number sits. Starting with Extension Headers would allow one to experiment on computers (not just on paper). What do you think about using Extension Headers, rather than a new Version number? Alex > > Khaled > > -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Petrescu > [mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 28, > 2017 4:29 PM To: Khaled Omar Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > > > Le 28/09/2017 à 15:40, Khaled Omar a écrit : >> Alex, >> >>> I dont understand that - can you please repeat? >> >> We didn't try to have a WG or even a mail list for IPv10 >> discussions so we can understand who is participating and if there >> will be a consensus or not. > > That's a long phrase. Too long for me to understand. > > [...] > >> Why IANA will not reserve version number 10 as it is not already >> assigned >> https://www.iana.org/assignments/version-numbers/version-numbers.xhtml > >> >> >> > How many versions of IP can there be? (what is the size of the > space?) > > Alex > >> >> Regards, >> >> Khaled Omar >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Petrescu >> [mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September >> 28, 2017 3:28 PM To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area Subject: Re: >> [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >> >> Le 28/09/2017 à 15:07, Khaled Omar a écrit : >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>>> People did something like this in the past. They were so happy >>>> to get their WG but without clear idea what to do in it. One >>>> may even create a very ephemeral assembly, in which a few >>>> people talk about the same thing, during few hours, and agree >>>> on next steps. It's a very enlightening experience. >>> >>> We didn't try this with IPv10 yet to have an influence regarding >>> the participants and consensus, >> >> I dont understand that - can you please repeat? >> >> [...] >>> Regarding the name, I think there is a second name suggested on >>> the draft which is IPmix, >> >> "IPmix" can sound good, although it can sound also like a 'soup' >> or 'mixture'. >> >> Makes me also think of MMIX which is a computer architecture with >> a second meaning: it means 2009 in latin numbering (the year it >> was supposed to get into production, which unfortunately did not >> happen). >> >>> it can be used instead of IPv10 which IMHO better to identify >>> the packet. >> >> It will not be possible to get a number like '10' to identify IP >> packets, like 4 or 6 does. They wont give it, however hard one >> may try. I think that is because there is not enough place left. At >> the rate of one version every 10 years it will be quickly >> exhausted. >> >> Can you please look where are these numbers defined: 4 and 6, for >> IP. >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Khaled Omar >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Int-area >>> [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre >>> Petrescu Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 2:15 PM To: >>> int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 12/09/2017 à 16:25, Khaled Omar a écrit : >>>> We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will >>>> know who is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. >>> >>> People did something like this in the past. They were so happy >>> to get their WG but without clear idea what to do in it. >>> >>> WGs come and go anyway. >>> >>> One may even create a very ephemeral assembly, in which a few >>> people talk about the same thing, during few hours, and agree on >>> next steps. It's a very elightening experience. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> >>>> Khaled Omar >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Int-area] >>>> IPv10. From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar CC: int-area >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Khaled Omar >>> > Date: Tuesday, September >>>> 12, 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard >>> > Cc: int-area >>> > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. >>>> >>>> After answering questions of people who send me e-mails >>>> publicly or privately the discussion stops at this point, >>>> that’s why I keep updating the I-D to make it more clear for >>>> other people reading the draft for the 1^st time. >>>> >>>> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say >>>> so. There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a >>>> document is worth working on. If you have received private >>>> statements of support, those people need to send messages to >>>> the list. >>>> >>>> Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there >>>> is a wg for IPv10 or not. >>>> >>>> >>>> There won’t be a working group unless there are people >>>> interested in forming a working group. >>>> >>>> Lee >>>> >>>> *From:* Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] *Sent:* Tuesday, >>>> September 12, 2017 3:08 PM *To:* Khaled Omar; int-area >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >>>> >>>> What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for >>>> this? >>>> >>>> For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group >>>> (WG). If there is no existing WG which could include this in >>>> its charter, you might need to create a WG; Area Directors >>>> (ADs) would want to see that there was broad support for the >>>> effort, and many people willing to work on it. I’m not an AD, >>>> but I would question one who thought there was consensus >>>> support for IPv10. >>>> >>>> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say >>>> so. There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a >>>> document is worth working on. If you have received private >>>> statemetns of support, those people need to send messages to >>>> the list. >>>> >>>> Lee >>>> >>>> *From: *Int-area >>> > on behalf of Khaled Omar >>>> >>> > *Date: *Monday, September >>>> 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM *To: *int-area >>> > *Cc: *intarea-ads >>>> >, >>>> intarea-chairs >>> > *Subject: *[Int-area] IPv10. >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think >>>> the discussion phase has passed. >>>> >>>> I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the >>>> IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the >>>> decision is out of my hands. >>>> >>>> I don’t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom >>>> is responsible for its final decision, either still some work >>>> to be done for adoption or start publishing the I-D. >>>> >>>> Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is >>>> a short time for the presentation and we may face another >>>> remote technical problem as occurred at IETF 98. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Khaled Omar >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Int-area >>>> mailing list Int-area@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Int-area >>>> mailing list Int-area@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing >>> list Int-area@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>> From nobody Thu Sep 28 09:27:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44ACE132FB1 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:27:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c5s2-HajcBdD for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67045132D44 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 09:27:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SGQRGt006612; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:26:27 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 9B24D20BE14; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:26:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D75120BDE6; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:26:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.142] ([132.166.84.142]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SGQQCm021850; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:26:27 +0200 To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:26:26 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 16:27:05 -0000 Le 28/09/2017 à 17:37, Khaled Omar a écrit : > Is there any suggestion for the I-D name other than IPv10? "IPv6 Extension Headers for IPv4-IPv6 Translation" EXPERIMENTAL status Plan for experimenting. Alex > > Khaled > > -----Original Message----- > From: Alexandre Petrescu [mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 4:29 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > > > Le 28/09/2017 à 15:40, Khaled Omar a écrit : >> Alex, >> >>> I dont understand that - can you please repeat? >> >> We didn't try to have a WG or even a mail list for IPv10 discussions >> so we can understand who is participating and if there will be a >> consensus or not. > > That's a long phrase. Too long for me to understand. > > [...] > >> Why IANA will not reserve version number 10 as it is not already >> assigned >> https://www.iana.org/assignments/version-numbers/version-numbers.xhtml > > How many versions of IP can there be? (what is the size of the space?) > > Alex > >> >> Regards, >> >> Khaled Omar >> >> -----Original Message----- From: Alexandre Petrescu >> [mailto:alexandre.petrescu@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, September 28, >> 2017 3:28 PM To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area Subject: Re: [Int-area] >> IP-not-v10 >> >> Le 28/09/2017 à 15:07, Khaled Omar a écrit : >>> Hi Alex, >>> >>>> People did something like this in the past. They were so happy to >>>> get their WG but without clear idea what to do in it. One may even >>>> create a very ephemeral assembly, in which a few people talk about >>>> the same thing, during few hours, and agree on next steps. >>>> It's a very enlightening experience. >>> >>> We didn't try this with IPv10 yet to have an influence regarding the >>> participants and consensus, >> >> I dont understand that - can you please repeat? >> >> [...] >>> Regarding the name, I think there is a second name suggested on the >>> draft which is IPmix, >> >> "IPmix" can sound good, although it can sound also like a 'soup' or >> 'mixture'. >> >> Makes me also think of MMIX which is a computer architecture with a >> second meaning: it means 2009 in latin numbering (the year it was >> supposed to get into production, which unfortunately did not happen). >> >>> it can be used instead of IPv10 which IMHO better to identify the >>> packet. >> >> It will not be possible to get a number like '10' to identify IP >> packets, like 4 or 6 does. They wont give it, however hard one may >> try. I think that is because there is not enough place left. At the >> rate of one version every 10 years it will be quickly exhausted. >> >> Can you please look where are these numbers defined: 4 and 6, for IP. >> >> Alex >> >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Khaled Omar >>> >>> -----Original Message----- From: Int-area >>> [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu >>> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 2:15 PM To: int-area@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >>> >>> >>> >>> Le 12/09/2017 à 16:25, Khaled Omar a écrit : >>>> We can make the opposite, first creating a wg, then we will know who >>>> is interested to work on the IPv10 I-D. >>> >>> People did something like this in the past. They were so happy to >>> get their WG but without clear idea what to do in it. >>> >>> WGs come and go anyway. >>> >>> One may even create a very ephemeral assembly, in which a few people >>> talk about the same thing, during few hours, and agree on next steps. >>> It's a very elightening experience. >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> >>>> Khaled Omar >>>> >>>> >>>> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >>>> From: Lee Howard To: Khaled Omar CC: int-area >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> From: Khaled Omar >>> > Date: Tuesday, September 12, >>>> 2017 at 9:17 AM To: Lee Howard >>> > Cc: int-area >>> > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IPv10. >>>> >>>> After answering questions of people who send me e-mails publicly or >>>> privately the discussion stops at this point, that’s why I keep >>>> updating the I-D to make it more clear for other people reading the >>>> draft for the 1^st time. >>>> >>>> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. >>>> There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a document >>>> is worth working on. If you have received private statements of >>>> support, those people need to send messages to the list. >>>> >>>> Yes, they have to send to the list but some are asking if there is a >>>> wg for IPv10 or not. >>>> >>>> >>>> There won’t be a working group unless there are people interested in >>>> forming a working group. >>>> >>>> Lee >>>> >>>> *From:* Lee Howard [mailto:lee@asgard.org] *Sent:* Tuesday, >>>> September 12, 2017 3:08 PM *To:* Khaled Omar; int-area >>>> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IPv10. >>>> >>>> What evidence do you see that there is consensus support for this? >>>> >>>> For an IETF document, it should get adopted by a working group (WG). >>>> If there is no existing WG which could include this in its charter, >>>> you might need to create a WG; Area Directors (ADs) would want to >>>> see that there was broad support for the effort, and many people >>>> willing to work on it. I’m not an AD, but I would question one who >>>> thought there was consensus support for IPv10. >>>> >>>> If there are people who want to work on IPv10, they need to say so. >>>> There can’t be consensus if only one or two people think a document >>>> is worth working on. If you have received private statemetns of >>>> support, those people need to send messages to the list. >>>> >>>> Lee >>>> >>>> *From: *Int-area >>> > on behalf of Khaled Omar >>>> > >>>> *Date: *Monday, September 11, 2017 at 4:53 PM *To: *int-area >>>> > *Cc: *intarea-ads >>>> >, intarea-chairs >>>> > *Subject: >>>> *[Int-area] IPv10. >>>> >>>> Hi all, >>>> >>>> Is IPv10 still not considered on your list of agenda, I think the >>>> discussion phase has passed. >>>> >>>> I would like thank everyone who participated or reviewed the >>>> IPv10 I-D, but still some steps of work to be done and the decision >>>> is out of my hands. >>>> >>>> I don’t know how consensus be calculated at the IETF and whom is >>>> responsible for its final decision, either still some work to be >>>> done for adoption or start publishing the I-D. >>>> >>>> Waiting for the coming meeting is not a good idea as there is a >>>> short time for the presentation and we may face another remote >>>> technical problem as occurred at IETF 98. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> >>>> Khaled Omar >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing >>>> list Int-area@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing >>>> list Int-area@ietf.org >>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list >>> Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>> From nobody Thu Sep 28 10:03:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23A8413476A for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:03:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UNfSeAn4dKyy for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm0-x22c.google.com (mail-wm0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4068E132025 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id t69so3604917wmt.2 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:03:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=FGDuZx4e3NXIAh3EwPu+PXoXwXAKlXK/jl7bK2HbwAg=; b=FEJOb8Q28c+R6bN7G8vrP58RflMGua8iEbCDD1V3XfbjFdoUVf+BJwxgMUC1hNu8pX Al3VKDr+vbo6GbIiSOsxFifuIcdN6uUXSiUI1m8nohCav5fDuy4O/kVJmje35ff+AFDx Zuno83pJLr3ioHwvTY5odEj1YXjUoQ8LhYJzWqw12TmkfxZUI5rvukWoIrx+rwloOV4c Z3qFBlS22SU1sT92GnaXJEFyAGOAurdVdbql/KQVDg0W4fHxY7vPaY6segRfMDskamUu ARvrFH7VX1a0iUfo/bO38034uMXDHtHvgTTeCebF6oCGE3TlZoF0W16UZj+nFze2ulPU 7P9w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=FGDuZx4e3NXIAh3EwPu+PXoXwXAKlXK/jl7bK2HbwAg=; b=PYl25ncYKxjlSh5OPM+Uli43pqo1s1zrNSDLMbLhkpBg+Oy7Cfys4RPPFwXJR7Phgy 099Fr296nR59ltM9ACICxCg5m8junE9dP/qVlDgwWNIyq4cG6jOLyEJ0WUTS/uFyzUGz c/Anocs9BmZieTrBhTIhFWexuR63bVXBpouQjXO4mTYAqCRIwLsk0KS6NXn2UVDatGhz rJOlwTJnqsPRr4xPikVgyBUbJaxHdpOp+RkoMRvIRXSxDqTDK08G+k2CoFnVelsDBgan fZNvtJMHAlltZHywGdueG53KZVReXCo9Cz4TN/KPcZpP2sbgXYmHcBW+wuz6WqpXbGRf EaTA== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaXfOfixJ5CtiM0WkcdV9ZcfA3IEQm1blKw0uJAayh4S0Q1njd1v xsYpqBSUPs5NckZxooMEIL9nbD+o X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBuwW+8vLpOjyMRFAVmNnLU82YIhWM6Rv1gYgqD9fQgBuwZWzFYcFpojtecVXArL+DI6SIJkQ== X-Received: by 10.28.93.145 with SMTP id r139mr1674048wmb.72.1506618197705; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:03:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id r41sm1979911wrb.43.2017.09.28.10.03.16 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:03:17 -0700 (PDT) To: Khaled Omar , Alexandre Petrescu Cc: int-area References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: <8102c328-8bfb-7369-ef34-6dabb0cb71e1@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:03:14 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 17:03:26 -0000 How about Future IP. - Stewart On 28/09/2017 16:37, Khaled Omar wrote: > Is there any suggestion for the I-D name other than IPv10? > > Khaled From nobody Thu Sep 28 10:07:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 276281342F0 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:07:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NAEg0C9W8DuI for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:06:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D4E6D1321A7 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:06:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8SH6sEL028574; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:06:54 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 9803020BE72; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:06:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7EB5C20BE04; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:06:54 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.142] ([132.166.84.142]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SH6rfL012274; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:06:53 +0200 To: Stewart Bryant , Khaled Omar Cc: int-area References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> <8102c328-8bfb-7369-ef34-6dabb0cb71e1@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <4e13049d-bfeb-4f41-3e8e-9f31a3205915@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:06:53 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <8102c328-8bfb-7369-ef34-6dabb0cb71e1@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 17:07:00 -0000 I like it. Le 28/09/2017 à 19:03, Stewart Bryant a écrit : > How about Future IP. > > - Stewart > > > On 28/09/2017 16:37, Khaled Omar wrote: >> Is there any suggestion for the I-D name other than IPv10? >> >> Khaled > > From nobody Thu Sep 28 10:21:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED51C1342CB for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 10:21:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.926 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.926 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W1b66MQ5qFdn for ; 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FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Sep 2017 17:21:15.2201 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VE1EUR01HT149 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 17:21:21 -0000 VSBtZWFuIElQZiwgc291bmRzIGdvb2QgYnV0IGFmdGVyIGl0IGlzIGltcGxlbWVudGVkIGl0IHdp bGwgbm90IGJlIGZ1dHVyZS4NCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTog U3Rld2FydCBCcnlhbnQgW21haWx0bzpzdGV3YXJ0LmJyeWFudEBnbWFpbC5jb21dIA0KU2VudDog VGh1cnNkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAyOCwgMjAxNyA3OjAzIFBNDQpUbzogS2hhbGVkIE9tYXI7IEFs ZXhhbmRyZSBQZXRyZXNjdQ0KQ2M6IGludC1hcmVhDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0ludC1hcmVhXSBJ UC1ub3QtdjEwDQoNCkhvdyBhYm91dCBGdXR1cmUgSVAuDQoNCi0gU3Rld2FydA0KDQoNCk9uIDI4 LzA5LzIwMTcgMTY6MzcsIEtoYWxlZCBPbWFyIHdyb3RlOg0KPiBJcyB0aGVyZSBhbnkgc3VnZ2Vz dGlvbiBmb3IgdGhlIEktRCBuYW1lIG90aGVyIHRoYW4gSVB2MTA/DQo+DQo+IEtoYWxlZA0KDQo= From nobody Thu Sep 28 11:46:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1AD2B13479A for ; 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Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:46:07 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 750D620C071 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:46:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet2.intra.cea.fr (muguet2.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.7]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61D5120BFE5 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:46:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.142] ([132.166.84.142]) by muguet2.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8SIk63E028144 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:46:07 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> <8102c328-8bfb-7369-ef34-6dabb0cb71e1@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:46:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 18:46:11 -0000 Le 28/09/2017 à 19:21, Khaled Omar a écrit : > U mean IPf, sounds good but after it is implemented it will not be future. I agree with you, but IMHO I am more modest about the future. "IPf" is a name that was already used in implementations to mean "IP filters". I think that "Future IP" could regroup efforts of: IPv10 (Khaled), IPv9 (China), IPv6 (ETSI "Transition to IPv6"), IP-ds9 (see Mr. Eastlake's email). Alex > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 7:03 PM > To: Khaled Omar; Alexandre Petrescu > Cc: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > How about Future IP. > > - Stewart > > > On 28/09/2017 16:37, Khaled Omar wrote: >> Is there any suggestion for the I-D name other than IPv10? >> >> Khaled > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 11:56:13 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82B241347E2 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 11:56:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.145 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.145 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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bh=7qQpyAHb9n35uu1PkRSro/wqiQ+CTebAIPb2LpfYOm4=; b=5l61lujeaT9bNTPu8YcUE1sdp MOFsqQJtns1ifFiqgIYikzrOiEMjqlx6L8VlQhAAfstjuKP3+64dPKjl2cg9JXeQnatPRWFLzx1GA wgUlurY7aaIkNDnclcqk3N/YT0qFvQ3SQK1dG3QLT5l/CLl/im1rvcWOZE1czgpoDjhtZNcVAj4Zq cdf0QrFuY0HZzePyr6oBRL+Rmvtlb9k7ildCzTC04Yjhr0Gv0CsUvfus6cUJ+8TCLpcbUr7cwwsHm XXLzoHtEyLdV8rEzzzz525Zw4D3g9nJ3p/rQB4h87iJ4DoRslDb+EeLINRWGuLPLCi2l/X18tMvEx cDiwlvaFg==; Received: from host81-159-99-98.range81-159.btcentralplus.com ([81.159.99.98]:61870 helo=[192.168.3.111]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dxe9n-0041E4-3K; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:07:36 -0400 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:07:28 +0100 Cc: Alexandre Petrescu , int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <024AE379-B7BC-4079-9EA7-42F12FD8B5E3@strayalpha.com> References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> <8102c328-8bfb-7369-ef34-6dabb0cb71e1@gmail.com> To: Khaled Omar X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:08:57 -0000 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal qua= lifies for that assignment. You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as a= name. Joe From nobody Thu Sep 28 12:11:41 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96C7513483F for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:11:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.021 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.021 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6_6dG3R6uZlZ for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:11:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from NAM01-BN3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01on0133.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.33.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D72EA13482B for ; 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SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2051; x-forefront-prvs: 0444EB1997 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(10019020)(6009001)(376002)(346002)(189002)(199003)(8936002)(478600001)(3846002)(6246003)(53936002)(66066001)(99286003)(9686003)(97736004)(6116002)(86362001)(102836003)(50986999)(5640700003)(33656002)(3660700001)(54356999)(3280700002)(6436002)(305945005)(2501003)(189998001)(106356001)(68736007)(101416001)(55016002)(81156014)(77096006)(6506006)(229853002)(81166006)(2906002)(74316002)(230783001)(7736002)(2900100001)(25786009)(8676002)(105586002)(316002)(14454004)(7696004)(2351001)(5660300001)(6916009); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2051; H:BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Sep 2017 19:09:26.1676 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2051 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:11:40 -0000 Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that it purports t= o solve, as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will generate. After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a new ver= sion of IP at all. Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there will b= e yet another version of IP may confuse the industry. = Ron From nobody Thu Sep 28 12:15:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6595813491C for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:15:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_NONELEMENT_30_40=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wvpEjrMEGhAo for ; 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Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:13:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.6 with HTTP; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:13:48 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org In-Reply-To: <024AE379-B7BC-4079-9EA7-42F12FD8B5E3@strayalpha.com> References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> <8102c328-8bfb-7369-ef34-6dabb0cb71e1@gmail.com> <024AE379-B7BC-4079-9EA7-42F12FD8B5E3@strayalpha.com> From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 14:13:48 -0500 Message-ID: To: Joe Touch Cc: Khaled Omar , int-area Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1b5e8a450c8a055a44b548" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:16:30 -0000 --94eb2c1b5e8a450c8a055a44b548 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch wrote: > > > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar > wrote: > > > > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 > > That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal > qualifies for that assignment. > > You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even = as a name. > > You can say version number TBD and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and say 10 is preferred. Regards, Behcet > Joe > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > --94eb2c1b5e8a450c8a055a44b548 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com> wrote:


> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10<= br>
That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol prop= osal qualifies for that assignment.

You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as= a name.


You can say version number TBD
and in IANA= Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and say 10 is pr= eferred.

Regards,
Behcet
Joe



_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
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Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:20:12 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-EA396617-434D-4785-84C8-605E12ADABCB Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:20:04 +0100 Cc: int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: <024AE379-B7BC-4079-9EA7-42F12FD8B5E3@strayalpha.com> To: Khaled Omar X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:22:17 -0000 --Apple-Mail-EA396617-434D-4785-84C8-605E12ADABCB Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Ok, but how we get that assignment before discussing the idea. You do not, for this type of codepoint. >=20 > After it is completed we can ask for version number 10 which is unassigned= by IANA recently. After you satisfy the requirements, a codepoint can be requested. Some other= proposal may get 10 before you, or you might never qualify for an assignmen= t.=20 Until you get an assignment, you should never assume, use, or refer to one. Joe >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Joe Touch=20 > To: Khaled Omar=20 > CC: Alexandre Petrescu ,int-area=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar wrote: > >=20 > > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 >=20 > That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal q= ualifies for that assignment. >=20 > You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even a= s a name. >=20 > Joe >=20 >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail-EA396617-434D-4785-84C8-605E12ADABCB Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Ok, but how we get that assignment before discussing the idea.

You do not, for this type of codepoint.

After it is completed we can ask for version number 10 which is unassigned b= y IANA recently.

After you satisfy the requirements, a= codepoint can be requested. Some other proposal may get 10 before you, or y= ou might never qualify for an assignment. 

Unt= il you get an assignment, you should never assume, use, or refer to one.


Joe

=


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Joe Touch
To: Khaled Omar
CC: Alexandre Petrescu ,int-area




> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar w= rote:
>
> I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10

That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal qua= lifies for that assignment.

You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as a= name.

Joe



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Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:24:37 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-D981DA4F-3618-49DA-833E-A0075D29BC30 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:24:33 +0100 Cc: Khaled Omar , int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <0FFF8E80-5F78-46F1-AF09-C4B9EF1F246C@strayalpha.com> References: <048d1210-8264-cf6f-6af2-219de8aac471@gmail.com> <1605bb1a-d07f-dd49-6ea5-1d713b77879a@gmail.com> <8102c328-8bfb-7369-ef34-6dabb0cb71e1@gmail.com> <024AE379-B7BC-4079-9EA7-42F12FD8B5E3@strayalpha.com> To: sarikaya@ieee.org X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:24:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail-D981DA4F-3618-49DA-833E-A0075D29BC30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Behcet Sarikaya wrot= e: >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar w= rote: >> > >> > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 >>=20 >> That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal q= ualifies for that assignment. >>=20 >> You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even a= s a name. >>=20 >=20 > You can say version number TBD > and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and s= ay 10 is preferred. FWIW, this also means that all examples and header diagrams must use TBD, no= t 10. And running code must use a value that won=E2=80=99t pollute the landscape i= f 10 isn=E2=80=99t eventually assigned.=20 Joe >=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 --Apple-Mail-D981DA4F-3618-49DA-833E-A0075D29BC30 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sep 2= 8, 2017, at 8:13 PM, Behcet Sarikaya <sarikaya2012@gmail.com> wrote:



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch &= lt;touch@strayalph= a.com> wrote:


> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10

That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol propo= sal qualifies for that assignment.

You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as a= name.


You can say version number TBD
and in IANA C= onsiderations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and say 10 is prefe= rred.

FWIW, th= is also means that all examples and header diagrams must use TBD, not 10.

And running code must use a value that won=E2=80=99t p= ollute the landscape if 10 isn=E2=80=99t eventually assigned. 

Joe


<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #= ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">


_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area<= br>

= --Apple-Mail-D981DA4F-3618-49DA-833E-A0075D29BC30-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 12:25:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B9CFB134845 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:25:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.986 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.986 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTML_NONELEMENT_30_40=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3hkuwb3A7Bti for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:25:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 82D10134830 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:25:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=lFvB8K4009uPFfJUeW0PU3bZmkFyA1OtNWCXrA2ls5c=; b=i+7qflKXI8kGAxCriH90GuRRr 26EmdG0XSB2N26elIUzdVZQU01E7LI4HzuQH/3IGx4j8qEpfq5wocCZkxBnIbGAoTx4mpF8NDgZcH xhm1t7ykeXQWadwKKQW0JJamX40wu1eA8u2cY7gdd/H+1S5zpUM87kwwmFsOmqzaWneF3wM1X7GTb vpFWq6R5yK17uMwKsFLJ+B5luODnrIvc5U6IxzO8jj3W/7M1MaH+7q9JBCdZxkPDVJmjYtRbgLNcR LGkjStF5/K7dBwAcjLleNBcyHIanVQbmpGet+otCchhTzjC+8MZaEa3yzIDN2V/BKJEo7UBRWfno9 ddAbvf7rQ==; Received: from host81-159-99-98.range81-159.btcentralplus.com ([81.159.99.98]:61986 helo=[192.168.3.111]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dxeQh-004MDT-1L; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:25:04 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-B9116E6F-5DD7-409F-BC4E-D432D8B38984 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:25:02 +0100 Cc: Behcet Sarikaya , int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <58EEDC98-AFF0-47E9-91F1-7875F8635AE3@strayalpha.com> References: To: Khaled Omar X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:25:20 -0000 --Apple-Mail-B9116E6F-5DD7-409F-BC4E-D432D8B38984 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable No, IMO. It still refers to a codepoint. Joe > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Can we use IPvTen? >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Behcet Sarikaya=20 > To: Joe Touch=20 > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >> > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar w= rote: >> > >> > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 >>=20 >> That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal q= ualifies for that assignment. >>=20 >> You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even a= s a name. >>=20 >=20 > You can say version number TBD > and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and s= ay 10 is preferred. >=20 > Regards, > Behcet >> Joe >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail-B9116E6F-5DD7-409F-BC4E-D432D8B38984 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
No, IMO.

It still refers to a codepoint.

Joe

On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Can we use IPvTen?


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Behcet Sarikaya
To: Joe Touch
CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalp= ha.com> wrote:


> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10

That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol propo= sal qualifies for that assignment.

You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as a= name.


You can say version number TBD
and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD a= nd say 10 is preferred.

Regards,
Behcet
Joe



_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area<= br>

____________________= ___________________________
Int-area mailing list
= Int-area@ietf.org
<= span>https://www.= ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
<= /html>= --Apple-Mail-B9116E6F-5DD7-409F-BC4E-D432D8B38984-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 12:27:37 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E47101347F8 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:27:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nefkH5QFL7WS for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:27:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 46A111342F5 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:27:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=d7FlU+kppIbI7QF38q4rhSC1xQKmq/SqA00DWQD+gDo=; b=ftCKbaonRtCbMDorzEDFqSJBh 3liirLud/sjkaCAM8pQBnMj0e5Du9Sb0eyB/KOTkPxBLEiPPPPZa95HTuH5GbLUQcWEXMe3vZ4VRp QX2p9tMEWaLjm5jdfw2nz7fm4xbYA2+lkC6Ngb1StcP2RltNUGFshVNrWXWnB33mpjHnI9AJxweee UJjvq52wtl5U8wtX0envJyu99Bwdvw2gprLXKw4fbmw3zrFB8UeSczEbPcBSGFjdzqdfZgr+Itqt4 RyvisvA6b0hFC9HPJMSUdO6AgSU1zqTyulgGKJJVgTEaS5i501zNPVHtnIAHvTzKhWG3jiTTyQ5vC 89T2hZ61w==; Received: from host81-159-99-98.range81-159.btcentralplus.com ([81.159.99.98]:61995 helo=[192.168.3.111]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dxeT2-004ONu-M7; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:27:32 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-BAEEACF5-0ED0-47EE-BB9F-6514499CE427 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:27:25 +0100 Cc: Ron Bonica , int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: References: To: Khaled Omar X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:27:35 -0000 --Apple-Mail-BAEEACF5-0ED0-47EE-BB9F-6514499CE427 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:19 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > We can call the mailing list any name that describes the solution but the c= ontents remains the same. >=20 > The industry for sure will understand the new version as it is described i= n details what is IPv10 and why number 10. Not if someone else gets 10 before your proposal does (e.g., their proposal g= oes faster or yours doesn=E2=80=99t succeed). Call it =E2=80=98after6=E2=80=99 if that=E2=80=99s what you want. At least y= ou won=E2=80=99t be affecting the value of 10 for others if you do not succe= ed. Joe >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Ron Bonica=20 > To: int-area@ietf.org > CC:=20 >=20 >=20 > Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that it purports t= o solve, as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will generate. >=20 > After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a new ve= rsion of IP at all. >=20 > Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there will b= e yet another version of IP may confuse the industry. >=20 > Ron >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail-BAEEACF5-0ED0-47EE-BB9F-6514499CE427 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sep 2= 8, 2017, at 8:19 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

We can call the mailing list any name that describes the solution but the co= ntents remains the same.

The industry for sure will understand the new version as it is described in d= etails what is IPv10 and why number 10.

Not if someone else gets 10 before yo= ur proposal does (e.g., their proposal goes faster or yours doesn=E2=80=99t s= ucceed).

Call it =E2=80=98after6=E2=80=99 if that=E2= =80=99s what you want. At least you won=E2=80=99t be affecting the value of 1= 0 for others if you do not succeed.

Joe
<= br>



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Ron Bonica
To: int-area@ietf.org
CC:


Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that it purports to= solve, as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will generate.

After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a new vers= ion of IP at all.

Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there will be= yet another version of IP may confuse the industry.

Ron

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
____________________= ___________________________
Int-area mailing list
= Int-area@ietf.org
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cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D8B0B13487D for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:28:46 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c618062d-f51209c000004f0a-85-59cd65f07e54 Received: from EUSAAHC005.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.87]) by usplmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id E1.FC.20234.0F56DC95; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 23:13:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [155.53.28.94] (147.117.188.8) by smtp-am.internal.ericsson.com (147.117.188.89) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.3.352.0; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:28:39 -0400 From: Wassim Haddad Message-ID: <84CEF41F-9CB8-481B-B8B2-6440DAEEB65A@ericsson.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6DACED4B-1573-40A7-85E9-843CBA154C3B"; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1 MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:28:49 -0700 In-Reply-To: CC: Wassim Haddad , "int-area@ietf.org" To: Ron Bonica References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPuO7H1LORBr3L+C1uzLrJYnHgu4MD k8eSJT+ZPK43XWUPYIrisklJzcksSy3St0vgyvh7bztjwQSfihkzDrI1MN5262Lk5JAQMJHY 0j6DqYuRi0NI4CijxMx/l9ggnLWMEhu7b7ODVLEJGEh8XX6WFcTmFbCXWLh1BROIzSwwhVFi 7l8hiLi+xKvdP8HqhQWUJG62HGUEsVkEVCXuvzsGZnMKJErcX7AeyOYA6o2UeLO9CCQsIqAi sfbPJBYQW0ggQWL19OuMEMfJStyafYkZIq4uMeXWBJYJjPyzkGyehWQzRDxJ4tmKe6wQtrbE soWvmWeBbdORmLyQEVUYwv54/ggThG0q8froR6gaa4kZvw6yQdiKElO6H7IvYORaxchRWlyQ k5tuZLCJERgJxyTYdHcw3p/ueYhRgINRiYf3TPjZSCHWxLLiytxDjCpArY82rL7AKMWSl5+X qiTCO9kDKM2bklhZlVqUH19UmpNafIhRmoNFSZx3wvkLEUIC6YklqdmpqQWpRTBZJg5OqQZG +6a7XwXWxDzM0bn7/pahB/Ncpc+zb+T8/3Bo4oPtU6vlV2f+c3V9Zu6f6eXRX7ucia/z96vV 80/kf2y3EbpWf3L6/W0n/715KrZVx8XdhvFB6GG9P02r4zbJZi4qLnfTiXNlK+sJexZy8rHF ibsPdrouKeReWPnU3eq5dMTU8q0+M822Zy8QVGIpzkg01GIuKk4EALz0BlOMAgAA Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:28:52 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6DACED4B-1573-40A7-85E9-843CBA154C3B Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AEA2EBCE-787A-4757-8F78-2402990320ED" --Apple-Mail=_AEA2EBCE-787A-4757-8F78-2402990320ED Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Regards, Wassim H. > On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:09, Ron Bonica wrote: >=20 > Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that it = purports to solve =3D> Which is?? Wassim H. > , as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will generate. >=20 > After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a = new version of IP at all. >=20 > Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there = will be yet another version of IP may confuse the industry. >=20 > = Ron >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail=_AEA2EBCE-787A-4757-8F78-2402990320ED Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Regards,

Wassim H.




On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:09, Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>= wrote:

Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that = it purports to solve

=3D> Which is??


Wassim H.

, as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will = generate.

After all, we have no idea = whether the mailing list will generate a new version of IP at all.

Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name = that suggests that there will be yet another version of IP may confuse = the industry.

=             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp; Ron

_______________________________________________
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Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

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X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:29:04 -0000 --Apple-Mail-4E3B73C7-578F-4618-9954-E3086C6609BC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggested by stewart. Yes, those are ok IMO. >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Joe Touch=20 > To: Khaled Omar=20 > CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area=20 >=20 >=20 > No, IMO. >=20 > It still refers to a codepoint. >=20 > Joe >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 >> Can we use IPvTen? >>=20 >>=20 >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >> From: Behcet Sarikaya=20 >> To: Joe Touch=20 >> CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch wrote:= >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar = wrote: >>> > >>> > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 >>>=20 >>> That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal= qualifies for that assignment. >>>=20 >>> You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even= as a name. >>>=20 >>=20 >> You can say version number TBD >> and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and= say 10 is preferred. >>=20 >> Regards, >> Behcet >>> Joe >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Int-area mailing list >>> Int-area@ietf.org >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail-4E3B73C7-578F-4618-9954-E3086C6609BC Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Sep 2= 8, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggested by stewart.

Yes, those are ok IMO.


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Joe Touch
To: Khaled Omar
CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area

No, IMO.

It still refers to a codepoint.

Joe

On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Can we use IPvTen?


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Behcet Sarikaya
To: Joe Touch
CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area



On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalp= ha.com> wrote:


> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10

That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol propo= sal qualifies for that assignment.

You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as a= name.


You can say version number TBD
and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD a= nd say 10 is preferred.

Regards,
Behcet
Joe



_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area<= br>

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area
<= /touch@strayalpha.com>
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boundary="_000_BLUPR0501MB2051FE32819F4FE3080FDAF4AE790BLUPR0501MB2051_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Sep 2017 19:37:42.5939 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2049 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:37:47 -0000 --_000_BLUPR0501MB2051FE32819F4FE3080FDAF4AE790BLUPR0501MB2051_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Wassim, Your question is not only appropriate, it is telling! IMHO, the next steps for Khaled are: - To articulate his problem statement, without anticipating a solu= tion - Determine whether solutions to the problem already exist - Determine whether to problem is pressing enough to require a so= lution Only the can we determine what kind of solution is required (e.g., a new ve= rsion of IP, a new operational model, a new whatever). By talking about IP version X, we anticipate the outcome of the discussion.= We also confuse the popular press. In my mind, the name of the mailing list MUST NOT suggest that a new versio= n of IP is on the way. Khaled, Can you coin one or two words that capture the problem, not the solution. = Ron From: Wassim Haddad [mailto:wassim.haddad@ericsson.com] Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:29 PM To: Ron Bonica Cc: Wassim Haddad ; int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 Regards, Wassim H. On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:09, Ron Bonica > wrote: Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that it purports t= o solve =3D> Which is?? Wassim H. , as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will generate. After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a new ver= sion of IP at all. Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there will b= e yet another version of IP may confuse the industry. = Ron _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --_000_BLUPR0501MB2051FE32819F4FE3080FDAF4AE790BLUPR0501MB2051_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Wassim,

 

Your question is not only appropriate= , it is telling!

 

IMHO, the next steps for Khaled are:<= o:p>

 

-   =        To articulate his problem sta= tement, without anticipating a solution

-   =        Determine whether solutions t= o the problem already exist

-   =        Determine whether to problem = is pressing enough to require  a solution

 

Only the can we determine what kind o= f solution is required (e.g., a new version of IP, a new operational model,= a new whatever).

By talking about IP version X, we anticipate the outcome of the discussion.= We also confuse the popular press.

In my mind, the name of the mailing list MUST NOT suggest that a new versio= n of IP is on the way.

 

Khaled,

 

Can you coin one or two words that ca= pture the problem, not the solution.

 

       =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =       Ron

 

&nbs= p;

From: Wassim Haddad [mailto:wassim.h= addad@ericsson.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 3:29 PM
To: Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net>
Cc: Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com>; int-area@ietf.= org
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10

 

 

Regards,

 =

Wassim H.

 =

 

 

On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:09, Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net> wrote:<= /p>

 

Maybe the mailing list should be named after the pro= blem that it purports to solve

 

=3D> Which is??

 

 

Wassim H.



, as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will = generate.

After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a new ver= sion of IP at all.

Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there will b= e yet another version of IP may confuse the industry.

            &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;            =             &nb= sp;Ron

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf= .org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

 

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b3RlPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ibG9ja3F1b3Rl Pg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_AM4PR0401MB224109141D364E3FCD117CBFBD790AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 12:41:22 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54F4B134830 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:41:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0cQXEO7GcpHa for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:41:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 191FA13430D for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:41:19 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Ept8JL/TWOH7CQdT6lgOEFawTwYtMQmdzPxLAG1/8Jg=; b=Kv18wkSPXoPVzohYSa1Ya/HhH qAC6tnoWd11q5SuzvEAkwHqK78+/oNPeemLtmYDqAmrq3kORQrEqqlZcne1+cAcdXu2w0b1ZE+cVi G7BlHTzl1tOwku5itjVo8PKqsO+9as+tZ8Hsojghd2LVKHED0FqXCHN0qcvJTXTHPVITNWtd8j4m2 BFONLstIi2cpPUr+Yb5fkK65KDHC5VIClEVCrmsbKXRrMtvreYsfbo/4+2UkOmocnnQ41UfszyxB7 L39OYDV2Eq/LFOQ9GiHnOTwVPIs89cdoQ3r0fe3guETQ+ieG7fXI8gRO1yp4kur8Yr5PenKzIt8Ip R/EiJlLDQ==; Received: from host81-159-99-98.range81-159.btcentralplus.com ([81.159.99.98]:62075 helo=[192.168.3.111]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dxegO-000ALR-Ul; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:41:18 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-C198BA0D-8487-4150-A583-152BA25DF1A2 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:41:14 +0100 Cc: int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <2A89F82D-A37C-4B2D-850D-1F9BE0218ED4@strayalpha.com> References: <58EEDC98-AFF0-47E9-91F1-7875F8635AE3@strayalpha.com> <0246D507-488E-465F-9693-6D101202A40E@strayalpha.com> <8C97260E-7849-4FBF-83AE-6AA4F1B1E1CF@strayalpha.com> To: Khaled Omar X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:41:21 -0000 --Apple-Mail-C198BA0D-8487-4150-A583-152BA25DF1A2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMO remove =E2=80=9C10=E2=80=9D everywhere, including the document name (I.e= ., the file name). Joe > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Sorry, I forgot to Cc the int-area mailing list, but I forwarded it before= you remind me. > =20 > =20 > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:36 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > =20 > Please post to the list. I do not want to engage in offline discussions. >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Do we need to change the whole I-D to refer to the new name or the content= s remains the same except replacing IPv10 to IPmix or IPf? > =20 > =20 > =20 > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:29 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Cc: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > =20 > =20 >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggested by stewart. > =20 > Yes, those are ok IMO. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Joe Touch=20 > To: Khaled Omar=20 > CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > No, IMO. > =20 > It still refers to a codepoint. > =20 > Joe >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Can we use IPvTen? >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Behcet Sarikaya=20 > To: Joe Touch=20 > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >=20 >=20 > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar w= rote: > > > > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 >=20 > That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal q= ualifies for that assignment. >=20 > You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even a= s a name. >=20 > =20 > You can say version number TBD > and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and s= ay 10 is preferred. > =20 > Regards, > Behcet > Joe >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail-C198BA0D-8487-4150-A583-152BA25DF1A2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
IMO remove =E2=80=9C10=E2=80= =9D everywhere, including the document name (I.e., the file name).

Joe

On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Khaled Omar &= lt;eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.co= m> wrote:

Sorry, I forgot to Cc the i= nt-area mailing list, but I forwarded it before you remind me.

 

 

From: Joe Touch= [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:36 PM
To: Khaled Omar
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10

 

Please post to the list.  I do not want to engag= e in offline discussions.


On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Do we need to change the wh= ole I-D to refer to the new name or the contents remains the same except rep= lacing IPv10 to IPmix or IPf?

 

 

 

From: Joe Touch= [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:29 PM
To: Khaled Omar
Cc: int-area
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10

 

 


On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggeste= d by stewart.

 

Yes, those are ok IMO.






-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Joe Touch
To: Khaled Omar
CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area



No, IMO.

 

It still refers to a codepoint.

 

Joe


On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Can we use IPvTen?



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Behcet Sarikaya
To: Joe Touch
CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area



 

 

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com= > wrote:



> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10

That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal qua= lifies for that assignment.

You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as a= name.

 

You can say version number TBD

and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign= a number to TBD and say 10 is preferred.

 

Regards,

Behcet

= Joe




_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

 

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

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([2406:e007:6d3c:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id s17sm3902228pgq.25.2017.09.28.12.44.42 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:44:43 -0700 (PDT) To: Bob Hinden , int-area References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> <03AB3EF5-3004-4BBD-96CB-E6550DFEABE8@gmail.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:44:49 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <03AB3EF5-3004-4BBD-96CB-E6550DFEABE8@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] [v6ops] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:44:47 -0000 Commenting on a few of Bob's comments: On 28/09/2017 11:04, Bob Hinden wrote: =2E.. >> L-flag : (1 bit) Whether the router is also providing IPv4 >> access using DHCPv4 (see Section 3.3.2). >=20 > This is the first instance of an IPv6 extension including information a= bout IPv4 I can remember. I find this troublesome. As far as I can tell= , the IETF approach has been to keep the two protocols separate. This bu= ilds in a dependency that will make turning off IPv4 difficult in the fut= ure. I'm not sure. This might be the one exception to that issue, as long as t= he rule for this flag is for IPv6-only hosts to simply ignore it. After all, swit= ching off the L-flag announces that we're switching off IPv4. Hurrah! > Also, the text "router is also providing IPv4 access using DHCPv4=E2=80= =9D doesn=E2=80=99t parse well. Router don=E2=80=99t provide IPv4 access= by using DHCPv4. DHCPv4 may be used to provide IPv4 addresses. Not sur= e what this is intended to mean. Seems to mix two quite different indications: IPv4 is routed and DHCP (v4= ) is available. It's a separate question whether the router and the DHCP server have the = same IPv4 address. Am I the only person here to remember that IPv4 used to work just fine wi= thout DHCP? =2E.. >> PvD ID FQDN : An ASCII string representation of the FQDN used as >> PvD ID. The string ends at the first byte set to zero, or the e= nd >> of the option, whichever comes first. >=20 > Is this a standard way of representing FQDNs? Shouldn=E2=80=99t this = reference Section 3.1 of [RFC1035]. Or is some other new representation = being used? "FQDN" is a strange case because it isn't defined in the basic DNS docume= nts. Also, technically speaking, DNS labels aren't actually restricted to ASCI= I by RFC1035 (section 3.1 says "labels can contain any 8 bit values in octe= ts"). Thus a zero octet is technically speaking allowed as part of a DNS label = (it would be represented as '\000' in the zone file). So, if the intention here is the colloquial meaning of FQDN the specifica= tion indeed needs to be tighter. Among other things, do you require 'thing.exa= mple.org', 'thing.example.org.', or either? Do you mean to include IDN? =2E..>> 4.2. Providing the PvD Additional Information >> >> Whenever the H-flag is set in the PvD RA Option, a valid PvD >> Additional Information object MUST be made available to all hosts >=20 > Who or what does this =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D apply to? I don=E2=80=99t= understand what is intended. It's wrong. Since using http to retrieve the additional information is defined earlier as a MAY, then by definition it doesn't matter if it fail= s. It's common sense that if a router sets the H flag, the additional information needs to exist, but we don't need to make it a normative requirement. Brian From nobody Thu Sep 28 12:46:07 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AEE4A1330AD for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:46:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.987 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=strayalpha.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wnn4hUBtiLTk for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:46:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from server217-3.web-hosting.com (server217-3.web-hosting.com [198.54.115.226]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7077D1348C2 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:46:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=strayalpha.com; s=default; h=To:References:Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Cc:Date:In-Reply-To:From:Subject:Mime-Version: Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=EnEGgm/0DsdpqUrdOTCh7h0119+qCXyXMsMXUVUDmIc=; b=ug3K5g3/gBqVFIXlbTjcF0fIE 92poKmKwwEjF4ztUGlc5WXun3AQy5pZTgp2wudbLR3BcZXojJpZfOlsT6APxia1Juxq5yUQAMPats f/pwCQBLiCyhDTteCSniw6vCdeIPerqKsW55HCRGjgJxFO0JU1TdZuUyDfXS7Gjx68k2oUgv3fuLV 9Elx+mJXHmQiUyPm0ATXljDlQxujewWc31skm/FEqELsQ+vA+ixYRxY3nn1e18g4AnC3ZjhGl2/4l NX6LS1Yu22KdNlG34kZgGAxqu6lOMVgTXAOdpP0ajTUQzTUASa3GH58AZcfZ4ZCMbv3z3g44UXXzL m7edl353w==; Received: from host81-159-99-98.range81-159.btcentralplus.com ([81.159.99.98]:62087 helo=[192.168.3.111]) by server217.web-hosting.com with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1dxeky-000E69-Ub; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:46:03 -0400 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-9987150D-415E-4F67-B6D1-C37015DF4CC3 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) From: Joe Touch X-Mailer: iPad Mail (15A372) In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 20:45:57 +0100 Cc: int-area Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-Id: <40D0960F-1A7E-4268-A1F0-50CDC9ACE795@strayalpha.com> References: <58EEDC98-AFF0-47E9-91F1-7875F8635AE3@strayalpha.com> <0246D507-488E-465F-9693-6D101202A40E@strayalpha.com> <8C97260E-7849-4FBF-83AE-6AA4F1B1E1CF@strayalpha.com> <2A89F82D-A37C-4B2D-850D-1F9BE0218ED4@strayalpha.com> To: Khaled Omar X-OutGoing-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.0 X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - server217.web-hosting.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - strayalpha.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: server217.web-hosting.com: authenticated_id: touch@strayalpha.com X-Authenticated-Sender: server217.web-hosting.com: touch@strayalpha.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 19:46:07 -0000 --Apple-Mail-9987150D-415E-4F67-B6D1-C37015DF4CC3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think that=E2=80=99s fine. The current ones will timeout and you can say t= hat these new ones were updates of the current ones when you submit the new o= nes. > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:43 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Can we make another new I-D with the new name, and keep the recent one as i= t is? > =20 > =20 > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:41 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Cc: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > =20 > IMO remove =E2=80=9C10=E2=80=9D everywhere, including the document name (I= .e., the file name). > =20 > Joe >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Sorry, I forgot to Cc the int-area mailing list, but I forwarded it before= you remind me. > =20 > =20 > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:36 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > =20 > Please post to the list. I do not want to engage in offline discussions. >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Do we need to change the whole I-D to refer to the new name or the content= s remains the same except replacing IPv10 to IPmix or IPf? > =20 > =20 > =20 > From: Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:29 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Cc: int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > =20 > =20 >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggested by stewart. > =20 > Yes, those are ok IMO. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Joe Touch=20 > To: Khaled Omar=20 > CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > No, IMO. > =20 > It still refers to a codepoint. > =20 > Joe >=20 > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar wro= te: >=20 > Can we use IPvTen? >=20 >=20 > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Behcet Sarikaya=20 > To: Joe Touch=20 > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > =20 > =20 > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch wrote: >=20 >=20 > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar w= rote: > > > > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10 >=20 > That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal q= ualifies for that assignment. >=20 > You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even a= s a name. >=20 > =20 > You can say version number TBD > and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a number to TBD and s= ay 10 is preferred. > =20 > Regards, > Behcet > Joe >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > =20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail-9987150D-415E-4F67-B6D1-C37015DF4CC3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I think that=E2=80=99s fine= . The current ones will timeout and you can say that these new ones were upd= ates of the current ones when you submit the new ones.

On Sep 2= 8, 2017, at 8:43 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Can we make another new I-D= with the new name, and keep the recent one as it is?

 

 

From: Joe Touch= [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:41 PM
To: Khaled Omar
Cc: int-area
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10

 

IMO remove =E2=80=9C10=E2=80=9D everywhere, including= the document name (I.e., the file name).

 

Joe


On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Sorry, I forgot to Cc the i= nt-area mailing list, but I forwarded it before you remind me.

 

 

From: Joe Touch= [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:36 PM
To: Khaled Omar
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10

 

Please post to the list.  I do not want to engag= e in offline discussions.


On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Do we need to change the wh= ole I-D to refer to the new name or the contents remains the same except rep= lacing IPv10 to IPmix or IPf?

 

 

 

From: Joe Touch= [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:29 PM
To: Khaled Omar
Cc: int-area
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10

 

 


On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggeste= d by stewart.

 

Yes, those are ok IMO.







-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Joe Touch
To: Khaled Omar
CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area




No, IMO.

 

It still refers to a codepoint.

 

Joe


On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Can we use IPvTen?



-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10
From: Behcet Sarikaya
To: Joe Touch
CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area




 

 

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch <touch@strayalpha.com= > wrote:



> On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> I still didn't recognize what is the problem of version number 10

That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - a protocol proposal qua= lifies for that assignment.

You don=E2=80=99t have that assignment, so you should stop using it even as a= name.

 

You can say version number TBD

and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign= a number to TBD and say 10 is preferred.

 

Regards,

Behcet

= Joe




_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

 

_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.= org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

= --Apple-Mail-9987150D-415E-4F67-B6D1-C37015DF4CC3-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 12:48:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF999134897 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:48:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.144 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.144 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 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cXVvdGU+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYmxvY2txdW90ZT4NCjwvZGl2Pg0KPC9ib2R5Pg0KPC9odG1sPg0K --_000_AM4PR0401MB22415781155BF20F240818E2BD790AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 15:31:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68C08134470 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:31:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id h7Tp_rMjqPfF for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 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p1sm4301053pfb.53.2017.09.28.15.31.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 28 Sep 2017 15:31:26 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <69C7391F-0D6A-4CA0-A347-C8C19EE38B59@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_FB8AB3B7-B00A-427A-9169-A476C7C23424"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 12:56:01 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: Bob Hinden , int-area To: Brian Carpenter References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> <03AB3EF5-3004-4BBD-96CB-E6550DFEABE8@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] [v6ops] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:31:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_FB8AB3B7-B00A-427A-9169-A476C7C23424 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Brian, > On Sep 28, 2017, at 12:44 PM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Commenting on a few of Bob's comments: >=20 > On 28/09/2017 11:04, Bob Hinden wrote: > ... >>> L-flag : (1 bit) Whether the router is also providing IPv4 >>> access using DHCPv4 (see Section 3.3.2). >>=20 >> This is the first instance of an IPv6 extension including information = about IPv4 I can remember. I find this troublesome. As far as I can = tell, the IETF approach has been to keep the two protocols separate. = This builds in a dependency that will make turning off IPv4 difficult in = the future. >=20 > I'm not sure. This might be the one exception to that issue, as long = as the rule > for this flag is for IPv6-only hosts to simply ignore it. After all, = switching > off the L-flag announces that we're switching off IPv4. Hurrah! This is essentially using an IPv6 mechanism to manage IPv4. Maybe we want a more direct RA option called =E2=80=9CTurn off IPv4=E2=80=9D= , or in this case =E2=80=9CTurn off IPv4 in this PvD=E2=80=9D :-) >=20 >> Also, the text "router is also providing IPv4 access using DHCPv4=E2=80= =9D doesn=E2=80=99t parse well. Router don=E2=80=99t provide IPv4 = access by using DHCPv4. DHCPv4 may be used to provide IPv4 addresses. = Not sure what this is intended to mean. >=20 > Seems to mix two quite different indications: IPv4 is routed and DHCP = (v4) is available. > It's a separate question whether the router and the DHCP server have = the same IPv4 address. >=20 > Am I the only person here to remember that IPv4 used to work just fine = without DHCP? I can still remember :-) There are, of course, lots of places where manual configuration of IPv4 = is done. Bob >=20 > ... >>> PvD ID FQDN : An ASCII string representation of the FQDN used as >>> PvD ID. The string ends at the first byte set to zero, or the = end >>> of the option, whichever comes first. >>=20 >> Is this a standard way of representing FQDNs? Shouldn=E2=80=99t = this reference Section 3.1 of [RFC1035]. Or is some other new = representation being used? >=20 > "FQDN" is a strange case because it isn't defined in the basic DNS = documents. > Also, technically speaking, DNS labels aren't actually restricted to = ASCII > by RFC1035 (section 3.1 says "labels can contain any 8 bit values in = octets"). > Thus a zero octet is technically speaking allowed as part of a DNS = label (it > would be represented as '\000' in the zone file). >=20 > So, if the intention here is the colloquial meaning of FQDN the = specification > indeed needs to be tighter. Among other things, do you require = 'thing.example.org', > 'thing.example.org.', or either? Do you mean to include IDN? >=20 > ...>> 4.2. Providing the PvD Additional Information >>>=20 >>> Whenever the H-flag is set in the PvD RA Option, a valid PvD >>> Additional Information object MUST be made available to all hosts >>=20 >> Who or what does this =E2=80=9CMUST=E2=80=9D apply to? I don=E2=80=99t= understand what is intended. >=20 > It's wrong. Since using http to retrieve the additional information is > defined earlier as a MAY, then by definition it doesn't matter if it = fails. > It's common sense that if a router sets the H flag, the additional > information needs to exist, but we don't need to make it a normative > requirement. >=20 > Brian >=20 --Apple-Mail=_FB8AB3B7-B00A-427A-9169-A476C7C23424 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZzVPSAAoJEK7rdBF357uoYpQH/2cw9GaSAoRw7UVgzYQqj2Hg CCGnHwFBGp1gztYfkAirw6xCfQd6AjYM27SiFNop341sbs1XmcBCFBBuhfVy3lZL 3JfpFBhqTZcWhaWutZvJqHnuD8URF/XAfJ/iADXFTPfgQ3VF2KqZp6xxgoqhhwR1 RixSEaAIte6CO7Pen6Nhu39AFM/KsXBbFdBQGgHcqaOQpCap3v/LaqeC4ZCmJv/j gCUuki25yKiTQGaZai5nC9jCEOaQIrJCB0IMEAkzfukccAjjT7yR7GWD1+Mz9dZ2 UNitx4lhGIX2Bc7nqI1l8ZijTFqV04jVGaJG1viYTZ1oCM+JmgwjA8oAXALO2D4= =kBnN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_FB8AB3B7-B00A-427A-9169-A476C7C23424-- From nobody Thu Sep 28 22:00:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83B5A132D67 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:00:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N7rrKX8G9X2o for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 886B61321DE for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:00:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8T50Epl007385 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:00:14 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id C8C80202C61 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:00:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFDE3201CED for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:00:14 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.41] ([132.166.84.41]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8T50ER8016025 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:00:14 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <0ddf037e-cd62-6a5d-d336-8910cbfbd004@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:00:13 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 05:00:19 -0000 Khaled, excuse me if I am too much tutorial-like. It is in my nature, sorry. It does not mean I am right. I will only post this idea once. Le 28/09/2017 à 21:19, Khaled Omar a écrit : > We can call the mailing list any name that describes the solution but > the contents remains the same. That is quite a strong requirement. It's hard to assume one brings work at IETF and that initial work stays the same. People would work on it, there would be suggestions, changes. As for the email list, here is what happens usually: One requests an email list, and provides reasons; then email list is created. But then a very important step happens: the person who requested the email list waits to see how many people subscribe. It's like when one creates a web site and waits to see how many people look at it. One can not forcefully subscribe people to email lists - it is a practice little appreciated. If one closes the topic very much (MUST be IPv10), then it is likely that few people will subscribe. If one opens it a lot (MUST be something about migration and compatibility between IP versions), then there may be many people who join. Given that, how many subscribers would you expect to be on your list? 10? 500? > The industry for sure will understand the new version as it is described > in details what is IPv10 and why number 10. I am not sure. When someone here invokes industry it's because s/he knows something about it, so better listen. Alex > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Ron Bonica > To: int-area@ietf.org > CC: > > > Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that it > purports to solve, as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will > generate. > > After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a > new version of IP at all. > > Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there > will be yet another version of IP may confuse the industry. > > Ron > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 22:01:55 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDA6B132D67 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:01:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tfAneTOwXw8N for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:01:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C0AB71321DE for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:01:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8T51pRC008689 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:01:51 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D1A0202C61 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:01:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 039EB200D0F for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:01:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.41] ([132.166.84.41]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8T51oME017090 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:01:50 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <58EEDC98-AFF0-47E9-91F1-7875F8635AE3@strayalpha.com> <0246D507-488E-465F-9693-6D101202A40E@strayalpha.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:01:50 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 05:01:55 -0000 Le 28/09/2017 à 21:34, Khaled Omar a écrit : > *From:*Khaled Omar > *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:34 PM > *To:* 'Joe Touch' > *Subject:* RE: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > Do we need to change the whole I-D to refer to the new name or the > contents remains the same except replacing IPv10 to IPmix or IPf? Too early to think about that. Leave your draft alone at this time. It's already at version 9 I think. Make others write drafts. Alex > > *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:29 PM > *To:* Khaled Omar > *Cc:* int-area > *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar > wrote: > > Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggested by stewart. > > Yes, those are ok IMO. > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Joe Touch > To: Khaled Omar > CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area > > No, IMO. > > It still refers to a codepoint. > > Joe > > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar > > wrote: > > Can we use IPvTen? > > > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > From: Behcet Sarikaya > To: Joe Touch > CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area > > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch > > wrote: > > > > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar > > wrote: > > > > I still didn't recognize what is the problem of > version number 10 > > That number is assigned by IANA if - and only when - > a protocol proposal qualifies for that assignment. > > You don’t have that assignment, so you should stop > using it even as a name. > > You can say version number TBD > > and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to assign a > number to TBD and say 10 is preferred. > > Regards, > > Behcet > > Joe > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Thu Sep 28 22:03:10 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDE2F1344E7 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:03:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wSBHiA9wNWMO for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:03:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 248DB132D67 for ; Thu, 28 Sep 2017 22:03:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8T535po009574 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:03:05 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 66AB5202200 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:03:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CE95200F72 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:03:05 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.41] ([132.166.84.41]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8T534ZP017970 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:03:05 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <58EEDC98-AFF0-47E9-91F1-7875F8635AE3@strayalpha.com> <0246D507-488E-465F-9693-6D101202A40E@strayalpha.com> <8C97260E-7849-4FBF-83AE-6AA4F1B1E1CF@strayalpha.com> <2A89F82D-A37C-4B2D-850D-1F9BE0218ED4@strayalpha.com> <40D0960F-1A7E-4268-A1F0-50CDC9ACE795@strayalpha.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <7aa64b90-7098-babe-6bb8-549cc2ffcc62@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:03:04 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <40D0960F-1A7E-4268-A1F0-50CDC9ACE795@strayalpha.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 05:03:09 -0000 Le 28/09/2017 à 21:45, Joe Touch a écrit : > I think that’s fine. The current ones will timeout and you can say that > these new ones were updates of the current ones when you submit the new > ones. I agree. Alex > > On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:43 PM, Khaled Omar > wrote: > >> Can we make another new I-D with the new name, and keep the recent one >> as it is? >> >> *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:41 PM >> *To:* Khaled Omar >> *Cc:* int-area >> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >> >> IMO remove “10” everywhere, including the document name (I.e., the >> file name). >> >> Joe >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:38 PM, Khaled Omar > > wrote: >> >> Sorry, I forgot to Cc the int-area mailing list, but I forwarded >> it before you remind me. >> >> *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:36 PM >> *To:* Khaled Omar >> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >> >> Please post to the list.  I do not want to engage in offline >> discussions. >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:33 PM, Khaled Omar >> > >> wrote: >> >> Do we need to change the whole I-D to refer to the new name or >> the contents remains the same except replacing IPv10 to IPmix >> or IPf? >> >> *From:*Joe Touch [mailto:touch@strayalpha.com] >> *Sent:* Thursday, September 28, 2017 9:29 PM >> *To:* Khaled Omar >> *Cc:* int-area >> *Subject:* Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:27 PM, Khaled Omar >> > > wrote: >> >> Then I think IPmix can be the name or IPf as suggested by >> stewart. >> >> Yes, those are ok IMO. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >> From: Joe Touch >> To: Khaled Omar >> CC: Behcet Sarikaya ,int-area >> >> >> >> >> No, IMO. >> >> It still refers to a codepoint. >> >> Joe >> >> >> On Sep 28, 2017, at 8:23 PM, Khaled Omar >> > > wrote: >> >> Can we use IPvTen? >> >> >> >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 >> From: Behcet Sarikaya >> To: Joe Touch >> CC: Khaled Omar ,int-area >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 2:07 PM, Joe Touch >> > > wrote: >> >> >> >> > On Sep 28, 2017, at 7:56 PM, Khaled Omar >> > > wrote: >> > >> > I still didn't recognize what is the >> problem of version number 10 >> >> That number is assigned by IANA if - and >> only when - a protocol proposal qualifies >> for that assignment. >> >> You don’t have that assignment, so you >> should stop using it even as a name. >> >> You can say version number TBD >> >> and in IANA Considerations section say IANA to >> assign a number to TBD and say 10 is preferred. >> >> Regards, >> >> Behcet >> >> Joe >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >> > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Fri Sep 29 00:01:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F0721344CD for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:01:03 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.32 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.32 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=telekom.de Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u1giqQw4i8QL for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:01:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from MAILOUT21.telekom.de (MAILOUT21.telekom.de [80.149.113.251]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 288E7132F6C for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 00:00:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=telekom.de; 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Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:59:50 +0200 Received: from HE105662.EMEA1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::442c:834e:c489:d2c4]) by HE105662.emea1.cds.t-internal.com ([fe80::442c:834e:c489:d2c4%26]) with mapi id 15.00.1293.002; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:59:50 +0200 From: To: , Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 Thread-Index: AdM4jU7URRCi0iTMT2als2ho3i0crAAYqapw Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 06:59:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [10.213.199.154] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 07:01:03 -0000 Hi, well, it's starts already confusing the industry: https://www.cnx-software.com/2017/09/08/ipv10-specification-released-for-ip= v6-ipv4-communications/ http://www.computerpartner.at/sites/dynamic.pl?id=3Dnews20080805131662703=20 (german only) Regards Nic -----Urspr=FCngliche Nachricht----- Von: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] Im Auftrag von Ron Bonica Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. September 2017 21:09 An: int-area@ietf.org Betreff: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 Maybe the mailing list should be named after the problem that it purports t= o solve, as opposed the solution that Khaled hopes it will generate. After all, we have no idea whether the mailing list will generate a new ver= sion of IP at all. Furthermore, giving the mailing list a name that suggests that there will b= e yet another version of IP may confuse the industry. = Ron _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Fri Sep 29 03:34:49 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FF64126C7A for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 03:34:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.926 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.926 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2017 10:34:42.5330 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR01HT038 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:34:47 -0000 QWxleCwgdGhlIGRyYWZ0IG5hbWUgaGFzIGNoYW5nZWQgdG8gSVBtaXgsIEknbGwgYXNrIHRoZSBJ bnQtYXJlYSBBRCBmb3IgYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3Qgc28gd2UgY2FuIGNvbnRpbnVlIHRoZSB0ZWNo bmljYWwgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbS4NCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTog SW50LWFyZWEgW21haWx0bzppbnQtYXJlYS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2Yg 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Thread-Index: AdM5EANDzz2e4l2WSSaNIONpXCmFKA== Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:47:50 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:D8B100D05ACFA0ECAEDBA40EF4D12D4BF3ECA9EDF00B16338803057B7CEC80E7; UpperCasedChecksum:0CE48C9B4338F86651560592CB36DBB9F4B19BF03B96FE0F8A0593A5B4164FC8; SizeAsReceived:6870; Count:44 x-tmn: [dl1zmA+p72q88altP2jqnqKZTS6F4ujn] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; HE1EUR01HT046; 6:HSN3MhfBlH48UNbFKckb8EPZmKSVy2fUD0HEf+scFS0SsOsi4S6hqrJatvZAexxivj9IPKujmH1menxadthU9dcI358/Ms9aMhh74fKtcb1Y1+Rc5m+AykljCED5ZONeqiqbgNLYsh2qMu0GYv149tSkIRDsM31xR4IpDyI6YArVWjpZI7b9Y5vvlzxTMN5w6IcuYULBXQXOHU68hsoSxzOVroIoTIyHq27FL9/grzdfz0kVuW8at5r3thsj683Rm6X+1FdzEf+U++Vq/MFbuwPq4oiQbFbqUeb+DE1uJ87zWHp4lnKgsA/dMFTTjLbCxs9hZXF3HSZ32k8bE+Fzfw==; 5:srCckh59ysIQwCgMRDnKyAP9piK6pAuynJKXjq0kloIyUbldS/v5wnshCjmKRQT3/BBcFTX6b+28jvqA7E4qGNEZTtK2YYHSemKtbRJdg0CTSuYHcV5Y4z0WiP6Lf1IA3sYoQFZGf3zoFaev7xyuAg==; 24:yLG0ojUGhcoJJmTITnPonazWTPF9CwHdBpIKC40noyBbOp4tckl5Ae2h6J2fGusYOBreAwtbPk+GPlUgkFH7nelAnAafUSgpguNVGQZL9VM=; 7:oRO3OfHSzMGRvkU1D8SAOyDO9Ho9ggYiqv/sqmo4lAfaurrAOiZTqucYqA5St+gEMrLpALvZT/lNPgM+VOC1zsYBeD5zXaJh7tU1/IJJont2vkZbzqsvgcQfSNavkYmA/FBKacwtk7YaIvNO2+mlkBplV9lm5GT98EljtB3Kz4Bvpkk+Jdb0fAVqrZrFFPditAOwA0YZuRitgqPHQQ0BZNDoI4Y72vtNxl1X/6LfU8c= x-incomingheadercount: 44 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 240fa583-2136-4dbf-e43b-08d507278802 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:HE1EUR01HT046; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: HE1EUR01HT046: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(100405760836317)(21748063052155); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031); SRVR:HE1EUR01HT046; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:HE1EUR01HT046; x-forefront-prvs: 0445A82F82 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1EUR01HT046; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB2241ACB65D9CF5489D254AFCBD7E0AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2017 10:47:50.9490 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1EUR01HT046 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:47:55 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241ACB65D9CF5489D254AFCBD7E0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Suresh, As you can see, many people are discussing IPmix through the internet area = WG, so it will be better if we create a mailing list specifically for the I= Pmix discussion so we can let the discussion more focused and we can know t= he number of participants and if there will be consensus or not. Thanks in advance, Khaled Omar --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241ACB65D9CF5489D254AFCBD7E0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Suresh,

 

As you can see, many people are discussing IPmix thr= ough the internet area WG, so it will be better if we create a mailing list= specifically for the IPmix discussion so we can let the discussion more fo= cused and we can know the number of participants and if there will be consensus or not.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Khaled Omar

--_000_AM4PR0401MB2241ACB65D9CF5489D254AFCBD7E0AM4PR0401MB2241_-- From nobody Fri Sep 29 08:34:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 247F81331D7 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:34:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id I-Cj0TqO40Dr for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:34:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E42CA133187 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:34:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v8TFYAKv048520; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:34:12 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.238.222]) by phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v8TFY2Tn048461 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:34:02 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:34:02 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 08:34:02 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Khaled Omar , Alexandre Petrescu CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 Thread-Index: AdM4jU7Un6kY6WYBDU62HhMnO+GpPgAjTLCAAAuuhAAABENGMA== Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 15:34:02 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0ddf037e-cd62-6a5d-d336-8910cbfbd004@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 15:34:14 -0000 V2h5IG5vdCBjYWxsIGl0ICJJUHZMWCIgLSBpdCBkb2VzIG5vdCBzcXVhdCBvbiBhIGNvZGVwb2lu dCwgYW5kIGl0IGlzDQoidGVuIHRpbWVzIGJldHRlciB0aGFuIElQdjYiLg0KDQpGcmVkDQo= From nobody Fri Sep 29 09:12:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04A10132F76; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:12:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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[45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x23sm1975211ywx.104.2017.09.29.09.12.21 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:12:21 -0700 (PDT) From: Suresh Krishnan Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_01B0A16C-ECD1-435F-9FB4-2F864E797EF5" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:12:23 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: intarea-ads , int-area To: Khaled Omar References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:12:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_01B0A16C-ECD1-435F-9FB4-2F864E797EF5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hi Khaled, > On Sep 29, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Khaled Omar = wrote: >=20 > Hi Suresh, > =20 > As you can see, many people are discussing IPmix through the internet = area WG, so it will be better if we create a mailing list specifically = for the IPmix discussion so we can let the discussion more focused and = we can know the number of participants and if there will be consensus or = not. Can you please write up a concise description of the problem you are = trying to solve? I have seen the discussion, and it does not look like = people discussing IPmix but rather people pondering the future of IP. Regards Suresh --Apple-Mail=_01B0A16C-ECD1-435F-9FB4-2F864E797EF5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Hi Khaled,

On = Sep 29, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Suresh,
 
As you can see, many people are discussing IPmix through the = internet area WG, so it will be better if we create a mailing list = specifically for the IPmix discussion so we can let the discussion more = focused and we can know the number of participants and if there will be = consensus or not.

Can you please write up a concise description of the = problem you are trying to solve? I have seen the discussion, and it does = not look like people discussing IPmix but rather people pondering the = future of IP.

Regards
Suresh

= --Apple-Mail=_01B0A16C-ECD1-435F-9FB4-2F864E797EF5-- From nobody Fri Sep 29 09:32:03 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BB87132EC4 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:32:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.925 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.925 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VDkxwiYNs7-J for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:32:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-DB5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092064032.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.64.32]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B4984120724 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:31:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=OC98Dn9XHMO1TgACrjOXDgC1rCSagPGAJ1EY4lZC5yM=; b=Miz/Ritt3i0yFKe0ITO8X+RigxYjw2TONT8Vwvty5nb6rdwbkpQxLLrM4/JXF5pqaRoJRGlghCnkmVV3vpKVV7KNNAPOgWqxN+Q5RzYYWRgFXHUA53HB7ai1x45ZyBUMm5vW87uQ17Af+pnrv1ojgXDw6PdmzEmnWa5dZVuBGrxtlX2vW81i8SQauVxqb088xObbMV9kSP2luDzPsj3sXrf7dXU8yaCZRLkwLz6+Af+dD3k4gWn3Ibyir6p/SICmDzNuZ187PruRj561EMuCdwFnPp3UxjIZumBR1dEMz6LmnbCBneFMEFkUjFksXyUMai5ILjUBvBXkTdafYVLfgw== Received: from VE1EUR01FT032.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.2.58) by VE1EUR01HT224.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.3.173) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.56.11; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:31:57 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.2.53) by VE1EUR01FT032.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.2.222) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.56.11 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:31:57 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.016; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:31:57 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Suresh Krishnan CC: int-area Thread-Topic: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. Thread-Index: AdM5EANDzz2e4l2WSSaNIONpXCmFKAALbiCAAAB0TIA= Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:31:57 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:D28E4041F4E54FB908EB95708D363DB8E4807461C14CBD3830F07B36CCE44CAE; UpperCasedChecksum:8427A96760501CD1B53C7936520AFADC53053ED0DA48156BED90623F8DE16BBA; SizeAsReceived:7122; Count:46 x-tmn: [6PJZjIsPbEtYmEQMOJ6F3bGrocIRAocJ] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; VE1EUR01HT224; 6:hNtJaQAa4VgnqHw4WvVmBmtfNzOHrqXUESmK21DHzPxktlQFFznw7Tyr+Fa9gik7EY07OdHQL7Hpg0OHExCOAOjYlzRkC4p0IeKjtqrVT+7qor5qE3EjDqcEjhdK7b5rSnKIuIEokhu6V65MwE3dziMp4QoqRd5mKKM2RP3wmFTtY5ssoP6VJkcxyKYv+2RzDOvQr1fjJMSe9T3Y6bKx/ESPSm51/aLMT8Kd6X3uLNJ0lcddAU/m5PZuN+hRZMwSUccN1w7hWSfLPlKq8wvmnmCy0CvqOysdE+37wb658DSy9XRcDaberS8kTGs8LsfG3+8ZJ62MbeyWJv7NKMbI7g==; 5:y06RqbHiDqIHpwLiyvm9lboQdYIiTJINK1za7CO81+m/nxRgfhgpYHpGNJJJkRDwhLdbq+GEqxF9oIqJY2SqhJLB8BrYO/suYVqMCbikyC4GYNrWPOelKX6rjo/d6DoxIj5qhBoBwf5h74XmGWRbFA==; 24:6EaGw5y/WlJG1bJcMV0zp8vf8RaY1BsuHEYpBUN5P3o4vKfOUwVVoUmJL0ul085awhS1fwIAWpBh5O8eY2ey72bjrn19Ni3KhkzI1N7iUAM=; 7:8PKOf2UhS8hA2XEKixr9iAOdMVxiVRAifF10ebrjUAx0OIsJbJ8UH+hio9oXA6y4UFQpHpN4ksx1LGXry1TCvafKDXxjHi+U6IeIaX0gbkb3GCrvU2LBuyKNM3QZ1SyZv9ADrKa0oc5YXYWYnV9q3PnoYtJSs+tyotQ+myuHSG3C661GxoF3Z3TQzkAij30wM2Ss0692lAxIL8akYQaIBZCElJQXa5q3VWUND2gingA= x-incomingheadercount: 46 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e1d7c0a4-4de9-4834-200f-08d507579a35 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1601125374)(1603101448)(1701031045); SRVR:VE1EUR01HT224; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: VE1EUR01HT224: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(100405760836317)(130873036417446)(194151415913766)(21748063052155); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031); SRVR:VE1EUR01HT224; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:VE1EUR01HT224; x-forefront-prvs: 0445A82F82 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:VE1EUR01HT224; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_AM4PR0401MB2241582ECD92B4B875495249BD7E0AM4PR0401MB2241_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 29 Sep 2017 16:31:57.2890 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: VE1EUR01HT224 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:32:02 -0000 --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241582ECD92B4B875495249BD7E0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Suresh, The problem I'm trying to solve is to overcome the depletion of IPv4 addres= s space and the lack of implementing IPv6 , this will cause the IPv6 only h= osts not to be able to access the whole internet as there will be IPv6 only= hosts (18% of the Internet traffic) against the domination of IPv4 only ho= sts (82% of the Internet traffic), IPmix allows IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts and vice ver= sa, and this will allow the coexistence of both version without any separat= ion or division on the Internet Best Regards, Khaled Omar From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:12 PM To: Khaled Omar Cc: intarea-ads; int-area Subject: Re: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. Hi Khaled, On Sep 29, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Khaled Omar > wrote: Hi Suresh, As you can see, many people are discussing IPmix through the internet area = WG, so it will be better if we create a mailing list specifically for the I= Pmix discussion so we can let the discussion more focused and we can know t= he number of participants and if there will be consensus or not. Can you please write up a concise description of the problem you are trying= to solve? I have seen the discussion, and it does not look like people dis= cussing IPmix but rather people pondering the future of IP. Regards Suresh --_000_AM4PR0401MB2241582ECD92B4B875495249BD7E0AM4PR0401MB2241_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Suresh,

 <= /p>

The problem I’m try= ing to solve is to overcome the depletion of IPv4 address space and the lac= k of implementing IPv6 , this will cause the IPv6 only hosts not to be able to access the whole internet as there will be IPv6 only hosts (= 18% of the Internet traffic) against the domination of IPv4 only hosts (82%= of the Internet traffic),

 <= /p>

IPmix allows IPv6 only ho= sts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts and vice versa, and this will allow t= he coexistence of both version without any separation or division on the Internet

 <= /p>

Best Regards,<= /span>

 <= /p>

Khaled Omar

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

 <= /p>

From: Suresh= Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:12 PM
To: Khaled Omar
Cc: intarea-ads; int-area
Subject: Re: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D.

 

Hi Khaled,

 

On Sep 29, 2017, at 6:47 AM, Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com>= wrote:

 

Hi Suresh,

 

As you can see, many people are discuss= ing IPmix through the internet area WG, so it will be better if we create a= mailing list specifically for the IPmix discussion so we can let the discussion more focused and we can know the number of particip= ants and if there will be consensus or not.

 

Can you please write up a concise description of the= problem you are trying to solve? I have seen the discussion, and it does n= ot look like people discussing IPmix but rather people pondering the future= of IP.

 

Regards

Suresh

 

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Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:43:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.223.164.6 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:43:02 -0700 (PDT) Reply-To: sarikaya@ieee.org In-Reply-To: References: <0ddf037e-cd62-6a5d-d336-8910cbfbd004@gmail.com> From: Behcet Sarikaya Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:43:02 -0500 Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c1b5e8af4a3d5055a56b70e" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: IP-not-v10 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:43:07 -0000 --94eb2c1b5e8af4a3d5055a56b70e Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" LX is 60 in Roman numbers, so it is 10 times 6 :) Behcer On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Khaled Omar > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:34 PM > To: 'Templin, Fred L' > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > What IPvLX means ? > > We already changed the name to IPmix without using any version numbers. > > Khaled > > -----Original Message----- > From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com] > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 5:34 PM > To: Khaled Omar; Alexandre Petrescu > Cc: int-area > Subject: RE: [Int-area] IP-not-v10 > > Why not call it "IPvLX" - it does not squat on a codepoint, and it is "ten > times better than IPv6". > > Fred > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > --94eb2c1b5e8af4a3d5055a56b70e Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
LX is 60 in Roman numbers, so it is 10 times 6 :)
=
Behcer

On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 11:34 AM, Khaled Omar &l= t;eng.khal= ed.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

-----Original Message-----
From: Khaled Omar
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:34 PM
To: 'Templin, Fred L'
Subject: RE: [Int-area] IP-not-v10

What IPvLX means ?

We already changed the name to IPmix without using any version numbers.

Khaled

-----Original Message-----
From: Templin, Fred L [mailto:= Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com]
Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 5:34 PM
To: Khaled Omar; Alexandre Petrescu
Cc: int-area
Subject: RE: [Int-area] IP-n= ot-v10

Why not call it "IPvLX" - it does not squat on a codepoint, and i= t is "ten times better than IPv6".

Fred
_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

--94eb2c1b5e8af4a3d5055a56b70e-- From nobody Fri Sep 29 09:47:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60DBF133073 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:47:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kdVQ07w61IEW for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:47:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yw0-x22c.google.com (mail-yw0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c05::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC5F9126E64 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:47:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yw0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id w22so133938ywa.13 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:47:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=A+RtlYc9IKknUF63tZqUp+haavCdSSWaExQakaCyNdM=; b=hydM+Kx9WyNuTmwDHYb6i7LNnnWMoQD/J6btrYKqxVCoAlidrK4O8vtE2yFJOioyym 7+vr8ph2Dr5Md+J1BLmN/3QUyKipie7lzERiQiQjVXdir3UiEv87WFPvaPtkmLcq/Lde ThUszqZgahFt4r5ZWxzuwwn5p1zGHQvq7VJIsNyVHxQO4VmMKMH/AFy/JpbzCHkOI62b H4D8ePzaaLnWKVsex53BZiqLT1HO/g0PtbJDoKW7OQcIWKaiAZ/WC20iCl3LrcaQf8mx jlEYNnmFIhAqIQ4PPgxl0JnNVbWssFbEBkgUdVqG2cw/lxJd0Cr7xDEgAOf0DxOXABL0 2khQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=A+RtlYc9IKknUF63tZqUp+haavCdSSWaExQakaCyNdM=; b=oO9MCcdN54hsh8w1IxIK9HI3nnpuSi6kJesF6vPvgwvDOzUOomu4wBMgglg342YVvk kS0Wx9yVwjmwFMqWzCQAa+J8ba8tnstz/07dbItIA26IbOwzUW0h68eqjiAwpLFm6KZt uvFOXg0/G4DeTv6c9aX+EJf1hEn8QGTfQvW+jGRF4ggyeKiCbS92PPJzsqzcTJfIxuG6 zPihhDtAmjob/SZSc5oi9dHPdttkwTiGvYj3935Ikiy7TF6cRt2ZOElDG2iN7bFaxx1y dRMRI8ZarXN/Q6y0HZJ0mnb8SvwhWOSyaeDYbz1kQTKe42DmgPYpGoBoHTq2Czetcw4k hLCQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhOtly7IIkGdgc/P8bf3+tslOdotqKG1jZYT1Hw5sdFyaWa0OO8 TS1tx1wloG6j6DQcXFZv4mk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCe42vO6zRCD4oTefUl1vC2cAcUamLKB3SWMfyXINXOkXgqFi+xlBU6mWjyR4Us9+cgpuuI2A== X-Received: by 10.37.22.6 with SMTP id 6mr6472687ybw.206.1506703628952; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:47:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [10.0.0.12] (45-19-110-76.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net. [45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k83sm1979405ywb.48.2017.09.29.09.47.07 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Sep 2017 09:47:08 -0700 (PDT) From: Suresh Krishnan Message-Id: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_9FC9061B-6BEF-4262-9893-47F1385EB119" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 12:47:07 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: int-area To: Khaled Omar References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 16:47:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_9FC9061B-6BEF-4262-9893-47F1385EB119 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Khaled, > On Sep 29, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Khaled Omar = wrote: >=20 > Hi Suresh, > =20 > The problem I=E2=80=99m trying to solve is to overcome the depletion = of IPv4 address space and the lack of implementing IPv6 , this will = cause the IPv6 only hosts not to be able to access the whole internet as = there will be IPv6 only hosts (18% of the Internet traffic) against the = domination of IPv4 only hosts (82% of the Internet traffic), The part that is not clear is why you believe IPv10 will be any more = successful or quicker to widespread deployment than IPv6. Can you share = your thoughts? > =20 > IPmix allows IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts and = vice versa, and this will allow the coexistence of both version without = any separation or division on the Internet NAT64 (RFC6146) already allows "IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 = only hosts and vice versa=E2=80=9D. Regards Suresh --Apple-Mail=_9FC9061B-6BEF-4262-9893-47F1385EB119 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi Khaled,

On Sep 29, 2017, at 12:31 PM, = Khaled Omar <eng.khaled.omar@hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi Suresh,
 
The problem I=E2=80=99m = trying to solve is to overcome the depletion of IPv4 address space and = the lack of implementing IPv6 , this will cause the IPv6 only hosts not = to be able to access the whole internet as there will be IPv6 only hosts = (18% of the Internet traffic) against the domination of IPv4 only hosts = (82% of the Internet = traffic),

The part that is not clear is why you = believe IPv10 will be any more successful or quicker to widespread = deployment than IPv6. Can you share your thoughts?

 
IPmix allows IPv6 only = hosts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts and vice versa, and this will = allow the coexistence of both version without any separation or division = on the Internet

NAT64 (RFC6146) already allows "IPv6 only hosts to = communicate to IPv4 only hosts and vice versa=E2=80=9D.

Regards
Suresh

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Received: by mail-qk0-x235.google.com with SMTP id b82so301693qkc.4 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:20:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=22pEzRJQlLAEYkq6qh+pUQf18tAs2Q2Z2wTtmZBsM6g=; b=XmOZX5jzF2Wur3u5wam/pzKDwVpiL1c1g0QLHTy0ECqfc86+KYnZq2PcF6dmkVt6Fn Gjeyfnfd4f5fu408VpHSv8ErffCTDGkH+8pOCra31qM47iHx0SY4pN3Y9gJsvQlFua8D vlTi1169NzrA1ME68PEKQMt1MHPRD2B9Lf7wO+BHNMzRFP4naFd7iVR2jFQPyNTaTQSZ rwFUn6VyYBnNsZXVHz3yPFkgYgqKos3GyQk7bJ2NGV+uksDjhAfbh1hlBokzV7HDdY8n Ng7y6Nis0nyJ/ySPkDWJql8YI4JOGhxH6q7S2wQZ+dr2tCtWPcG/DU+8bY7QjQrOJVqQ +PqA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=22pEzRJQlLAEYkq6qh+pUQf18tAs2Q2Z2wTtmZBsM6g=; b=AI34HSuLxoiWkgDRDYIv2MpAB0aJPFTCcDWe4KXX4fznpUbNd8DVY1RUk8byYpcnl9 YMi/5bIZuamb7FZD/IBlN46ALUJxndRSLA5Isil/RE7B9pTbVTL5bgYVHvgWh0VOP26Y TEhYv5V30knnFlbMH7LjnKADZiQ56dLJe3m/urkFFtmM3P/vjfXc+BExIZCqFNPLbWjf Bm5beT5WrZ1On5QC2tg5N2N03GN4h9EIBmxlvlZ+qfMAEqG0Fgz3nZ6dRMPERGjv9n3Q rs4OCy/23xqiDLadJoHBoCo4cqEmQuwPFzwM5rR3gcRRhHXbc0XZ2i1RTaGHMchjmWPf 94Qw== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaWwRCjGKmv2SxdemUKbkyhOmUmkZGeip3Yn47sMA4n9I7l5g5iW GiUQ9/eQpkBsF+aPeObcF7PfgXMud5jenr/FDXREYw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QDuk/DyeHv00aMSzNYsquBTPdhAUpyLGiLedNki5t+3wYpOJE7bC+W1icxKBS/wuo+nQuxDeiT/XwRoqbuENVw= X-Received: by 10.55.109.131 with SMTP id i125mr4126385qkc.17.1506705649751; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:20:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.61.196 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:20:49 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:20:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: Suresh Krishnan , int-area Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 17:20:53 -0000 On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: > Hi Suresh, > > > >> The part that is not clear is why you believe IPv10 will be any more >> successful or quicker to widespread deployment than IPv6. Can you share = your >> thoughts? > > > > The deployment of IPv10 is a software development process, this can be > accomplished by technology companies in a short time, there will be no > dependence on enterprises=E2=80=99 users who didn=E2=80=99t migrate to IP= v6 till now and > this migration took so much time without full migration. > Khaled, Probably all hardware supports IPv6, continued IPv6 deployment is a software problem or more aptly it is an infrastructure and management problem. Regarding this statement: "this can be accomplished by technology companies in a short time" -- I see no technical basis for this claim. Since the initial posting of the IPv10, I and and others have asked several times for an implementation. Have you started on one? Without even a prototype it's highly unlikely that technology companies, many of which of representation on this list, are going to put any stock in your arguments about how easy the protocol is to develop and deploy. They're certainly aren't going to take resources off of IPv6 or more tangible projects based on unqualified statements like this. Tom > > > > > > > From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com] > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:47 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Cc: int-area > Subject: Re: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. > > > > Hi Khaled, > > > > On Sep 29, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Khaled Omar > wrote: > > > > Hi Suresh, > > > > The problem I=E2=80=99m trying to solve is to overcome the depletion of I= Pv4 address > space and the lack of implementing IPv6 , this will cause the IPv6 only > hosts not to be able to access the whole internet as there will be IPv6 o= nly > hosts (18% of the Internet traffic) against the domination of IPv4 only > hosts (82% of the Internet traffic), > > > > The part that is not clear is why you believe IPv10 will be any more > successful or quicker to widespread deployment than IPv6. Can you share y= our > thoughts? > > > > > > IPmix allows IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts and vice > versa, and this will allow the coexistence of both version without any > separation or division on the Internet > > > > NAT64 (RFC6146) already allows "IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 on= ly > hosts and vice versa=E2=80=9D. > > > > Regards > > Suresh > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Fri Sep 29 10:33:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DEE1332E1 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:32:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.136 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.136 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oq04E27sTtO8 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:32:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092068069.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.68.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81FE813207A for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:32:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=0ahI1O+kdxwmjPj9jA1IyEviTyccDlMpWUm0z2C2Zec=; b=HCw6dBrEydF0f6NxH5C5u5DMYdEDSm2rwSjEFtAy1ueYwmhWBhMcuNmSpgC4s4ocxAO/BhsmC3mP2lsBSECkCrkhqy1zUSizS3ECAi+S06VZJFLR8knLwHSCBz4x6tRnaYUorNk2AnHhkLt8Pv66VpKmz8JuX6tnQ8qH6FnRux8P1dpnh6Jh1t8eH9v11br4ttWt7qream/gAEBzE8sgBDUhwQvLFVuwCqdRsdvi1UwdgpMPfgWYn+baY461lwB4WO7uE55XUeMBICD6X1rPd7/YQnpvd7oicy4yIKyn5I9Rf2e7fBgCej9TtEN/EKvMJvGP5Eo15g5Ek+6dmC9lDQ== Received: from VE1EUR02FT064.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.12.55) by VE1EUR02HT101.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.13.130) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.56.11; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 17:32:55 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.12.58) by VE1EUR02FT064.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.13.199) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.56.11 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 17:32:55 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.016; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 17:32:55 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. 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AOwi7QCcdYsb74+4rPkYyIavWXzoKTm7WePj6XG3Zm8gsDp8/p5ysvy2O1AUmxV0nwVq8AtV3SrpIpjnJw/tMgUyudM= X-Received: by 10.237.59.221 with SMTP id s29mr7515266qte.27.1506707093608; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:44:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.61.196 with HTTP; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:44:53 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 10:44:53 -0700 Message-ID: To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 17:44:56 -0000 On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: > > -----Original Message----- > From: Khaled Omar > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 7:32 PM > To: 'Tom Herbert' > Subject: RE: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. > > Hi Tom. > >> Regarding this statement: "this can be accomplished by technology compan= ies in a short time" -- I see no technical basis for this claim. > > The technical basis is to allow encapsulation of both versions in the sam= e L3 packet header. > >> Since the initial posting of the IPv10, I and and others have asked seve= ral times for an implementation. > > Yes, this have to be tested because theoritically it works fine and I'm n= ot a software developer to test it by myself. > The statement "theoritically it works fine" is another unqualified statement that won't convince anyone. If there's no plan for running code then maybe this work, as well as a discussion about the long term plan for IP, belong in IRTF? Thanks, Tom > Khaled > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tom Herbert [mailto:tom@herbertland.com] > Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 7:21 PM > To: Khaled Omar > Cc: Suresh Krishnan; int-area > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Khaled Omar wrote: >> Hi Suresh, >> >> >> >>> The part that is not clear is why you believe IPv10 will be any more >>> successful or quicker to widespread deployment than IPv6. Can you >>> share your thoughts? >> >> >> >> The deployment of IPv10 is a software development process, this can be >> accomplished by technology companies in a short time, there will be no >> dependence on enterprises=E2=80=99 users who didn=E2=80=99t migrate to I= Pv6 till now >> and this migration took so much time without full migration. >> > Khaled, > > Probably all hardware supports IPv6, continued IPv6 deployment is a softw= are problem or more aptly it is an infrastructure and management problem. > > Regarding this statement: "this can be accomplished by technology compani= es in a short time" -- I see no technical basis for this claim. > Since the initial posting of the IPv10, I and and others have asked sever= al times for an implementation. Have you started on one? Without even a pro= totype it's highly unlikely that technology companies, many of which of rep= resentation on this list, are going to put any stock in your arguments abou= t how easy the protocol is to develop and deploy. > They're certainly aren't going to take resources off of IPv6 or more tang= ible projects based on unqualified statements like this. > > Tom > >> >> >> >> >> >> >> From: Suresh Krishnan [mailto:suresh.krishnan@gmail.com] >> Sent: Friday, September 29, 2017 6:47 PM >> To: Khaled Omar >> Cc: int-area >> Subject: Re: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. >> >> >> >> Hi Khaled, >> >> >> >> On Sep 29, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Khaled Omar >> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> Hi Suresh, >> >> >> >> The problem I=E2=80=99m trying to solve is to overcome the depletion of = IPv4 >> address space and the lack of implementing IPv6 , this will cause the >> IPv6 only hosts not to be able to access the whole internet as there >> will be IPv6 only hosts (18% of the Internet traffic) against the >> domination of IPv4 only hosts (82% of the Internet traffic), >> >> >> >> The part that is not clear is why you believe IPv10 will be any more >> successful or quicker to widespread deployment than IPv6. Can you >> share your thoughts? >> >> >> >> >> >> IPmix allows IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts and >> vice versa, and this will allow the coexistence of both version >> without any separation or division on the Internet >> >> >> >> NAT64 (RFC6146) already allows "IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 >> only hosts and vice versa=E2=80=9D. >> >> >> >> Regards >> >> Suresh >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Int-area mailing list >> Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >> > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Fri Sep 29 11:17:33 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DAD8413420E for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:17:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JxwZGrbruNwO for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:17:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x232.google.com (mail-wr0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EB977133343 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:17:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x232.google.com with SMTP id y95so277456wrb.4 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:17:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=9kcaRccEsj15opptBFrCnTlc1SSOmO8AmMfL08jTjkM=; b=H5bpnY3LolKwM3tb8ttMWUGwVsLLN/l/tN+f/elkRkF25oLxzU8z3Zwo2mtiIwKpwL rPw3t4hulM+h0EXfIOA4Gb3CZ3y9LkDUBGKCMrZQrZNzF2PwwZn+Q7WMa8RhBqn6PVuD VVcn2Z3nTkeB22PyHe9VOiZEb7FuhBgQ/SIT5Y5PBHBKJH/+0ZH8u5COU/p2AwCljQLc pPjWk40a59DR11JI21j21eii2yA9069hWKMSHstqtqvWmWMMLIMYH0uDB4XRuC7jUejX GxtZpnWnt8CTAMumxZkZ+eM/DG0SEUn97HowlLSZdZzF5y/3I4SBd9TclRKfmJ/9tzJ+ Es9A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=9kcaRccEsj15opptBFrCnTlc1SSOmO8AmMfL08jTjkM=; b=VC428r7kMKM8rRRIwSb9J1wkHVcP3VohiMPgHjWEYlIXtFVR2EXM+G8GB2oVX6O656 jY0Q/FSRc7bQbOoUfPaMQrk21KNY0yt2Kt2paDNgtd3VGhc4nhlrUeP6yCPhujy6bYal BLmSbh4p0gwg82DskF7hlQBy5yqZqfqbttG/slALSxRjeSa1dNiAdWo+0CUhCw9Djdi3 buBjeQEd6TL8ZKrAFkTynMQp9iIPsELAj8WxIuiqOCksAi21WrwwwUTM1x34xbfOrr/j hS3XYurzkZXYqog5NBfUV9FUicRfTkYCE5YFCudXthDcCI6/puPlK0FPfjynwUbEyy9e XpRA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgswi+nPjFtziuGylST24+hrEgEICT7P0HNKz4ZS9EbhAv1pvrr IplHT6b5WCdxzwOFXdaVj94RqMEY X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAEEg8Y1Zu4Mivm5fbDuEawqNE0qjmP0Yw3k3NO0xMZy/BMa626hwFTX2urdfodPH6nsjRs0A== X-Received: by 10.223.135.97 with SMTP id 30mr7634930wrz.245.1506709046983; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a19sm5330769wra.64.2017.09.29.11.17.26 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 29 Sep 2017 11:17:26 -0700 (PDT) To: Tom Herbert , Khaled Omar Cc: int-area References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 19:17:23 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 18:17:31 -0000 On 29/09/2017 18:44, Tom Herbert wrote: > maybe this work, as well as a > discussion about the long term plan for IP, belong in IRTF? I think IRTF would be a fine place to put work on the long term evolution of the Internet. Stewart From nobody Fri Sep 29 13:46:39 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D265B132D51 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 13:46:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.136 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.136 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H5=-1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5sJsfCDMqM-x for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 13:46:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR01-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092065070.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.65.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D43C1323F7 for ; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 13:46:24 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=UMFL7wjeVs/fH9XJuXJPnnmdCuj71U1DaWL9EP7ztaQ=; b=AuUEJUQWFS2gG5XdeYt//riRft0J09ygjsTTQ8FjNoUgljl5pHK8bqGo8g87anCcX04GwkSjBbjnGApb/myO8sgQDRC1ZS/BWv3H0wrzkzIcUf1dQMUTTno70aYjnqf1wKXxrRrQt912xamez5K4iAENBljW4MBszbqcam1NcWZLLuSgC5xqZYl4GINYxM4J6fA+32HUT1ngK1x6Y8/hgjP/m9Q/l9PecNXKz1mpJtpMFs+jg/p9vBhQoXTw67X+ywgMYXfqtZSvbR+aA/9xlv95HUqAkimtim7vpgkZFypfZCoN0beWF+xKW0Kgyo1sOxsInlnoy+6fkla5SXQ/ww== Received: from HE1EUR01FT047.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.0.52) by HE1EUR01HT132.eop-EUR01.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.0.238) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.56.11; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:46:22 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.0.57) by HE1EUR01FT047.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.1.5) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.56.11 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:46:22 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.016; Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:46:21 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Stewart Bryant , Tom Herbert CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. 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X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Sep 2017 20:46:29 -0000 V2hhdCB0byBkbyB3aXRoIHRoZSBJUlRGIHRvIGRpc2N1c3MgYW4gSS1EPw0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3Jp Z2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBTdGV3YXJ0IEJyeWFudCBbbWFpbHRvOnN0ZXdhcnQu YnJ5YW50QGdtYWlsLmNvbV0gDQpTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAyOSwgMjAxNyA4OjE3 IFBNDQpUbzogVG9tIEhlcmJlcnQ7IEtoYWxlZCBPbWFyDQpDYzogaW50LWFyZWENClN1YmplY3Q6 IFJlOiBbSW50LWFyZWFdIEZXOiBSZXF1ZXN0IGZvciBhIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdCB0byBJUG1peCBJ LUQuDQoNCg0KT24gMjkvMDkvMjAxNyAxODo0NCwgVG9tIEhlcmJlcnQgd3JvdGU6DQo+IG1heWJl IHRoaXMgd29yaywgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBhDQo+IGRpc2N1c3Npb24gYWJvdXQgdGhlIGxvbmcgdGVy bSBwbGFuIGZvciBJUCwgYmVsb25nICBpbiBJUlRGPw0KDQpJIHRoaW5rIElSVEYgd291bGQgYmUg YSBmaW5lIHBsYWNlIHRvIHB1dCB3b3JrIG9uIHRoZSBsb25nIHRlcm0gZXZvbHV0aW9uIG9mIHRo ZSBJbnRlcm5ldC4NCg0KU3Rld2FydA0K From nobody Sat Sep 30 01:07:40 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D88601344B0 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 01:07:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.632 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.632 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oGJHtD9iDau2 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 01:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 44A07124239 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 01:07:37 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8U87YMW033946 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:07:34 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 450CE20143B for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:07:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD26200CD1 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:07:34 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.51] ([132.166.84.51]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8U87VwQ015266 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:07:33 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <8f3723b9-dad8-1b17-6266-52dbf4b1349f@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:07:31 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 08:07:39 -0000 Le 29/09/2017 à 18:47, Suresh Krishnan a écrit : > Hi Khaled, > >> On Sep 29, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Khaled Omar > > wrote: >> >> Hi Suresh, >> The problem I’m trying to solve is to overcome the depletion of IPv4 >> address space and the lack of implementing IPv6 , this will cause the >> IPv6 only hosts not to be able to access the whole internet as there >> will be IPv6 only hosts (18% of the Internet traffic) against the >> domination of IPv4 only hosts (82% of the Internet traffic), > > The part that is not clear is why you believe IPv10 will be any more > successful or quicker to widespread deployment than IPv6. Can you share > your thoughts? > >> IPmix allows IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts and >> vice versa, and this will allow the coexistence of both version >> without any separation or division on the Internet > > NAT64 (RFC6146) already allows "IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 > only hosts and vice versa”. I think I agree. NAT64 may have some advantages, have a user base, but it may also have some drawbacks. The same about DNS64 RFC6147. If I remember correctly, NAT64, and/or DNS64, maye have been worked in the v6ops WG? Was it considered to bring this work to v6ops? Alex > > Regards > Suresh > > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Sat Sep 30 01:30:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC72D126DD9 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 01:30:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.633 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.633 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.665] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id u1AQVJnNnd16 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 01:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 700E61243F6 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 01:30:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8U8UUH1139978 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:30:30 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 24250203A95 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:30:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B3B7200CD1 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:30:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.51] ([132.166.84.51]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8U8UTd3025935 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:30:29 +0200 To: int-area@ietf.org References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:30:29 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 08:30:35 -0000 Le 29/09/2017 à 19:32, Khaled Omar a écrit : > > -----Original Message----- From: Khaled Omar Sent: Friday, September > 29, 2017 7:32 PM To: 'Tom Herbert' Subject: RE: [Int-area] Request > for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. > > Hi Tom. > >> Regarding this statement: "this can be accomplished by technology >> companies in a short time" -- I see no technical basis for this >> claim. > > The technical basis is to allow encapsulation of both versions in the > same L3 packet header. Well, there are multiple ways to encapsulate versions of IP in a same packet header. One is to use IP-in-IP encapsulation. You could do IPvx-in-IPv6. Another is to multiplex with a number below IP. For example, you have an EtherType for IPv4 and another EtherType for IPv6. The EtherType field is in an Ethernet header which is below IP. You could see EtherType quickly if you download the free tool 'wireshark'. You dont have to be a software developper to do that. Architects use wireshark extensively. Another one is to use an IPv6 Extension Header called "Routing Header". You could put an IPv4 destination address _and_ an IPv6 destination address in the same Routing Header. As a result, the packet would be travelling to IPv4 Computers and to IPv6 Computers too. That said, I agree with you that that the technical basis is to allow encapsulate versions of IP in a same packet header. I would also rather say: the technical issue is how to use different versions of IP in a same IP packet. >> Since the initial posting of the IPv10, I and and others have asked >> several times for an implementation. > > Yes, this have to be tested because theoretically it works fine I agree with you. Many concepts are first imagined in someone's mind, then sketched with a pencil on a paper, and discussed. These concepts work fine theoretically. > and I'm not a software developer to test it by myself. You are not. But can you make their job easy? Me too I can sketch a concept car on paper, but I doubt any manufacturer will ever make one :-) Because I dont know how to make cars. Alex From nobody Sat Sep 30 04:36:06 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3E1DC124B17 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 04:36:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.145 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.145 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=0.874, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id loSggFFAV_OY for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 04:36:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092070095.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.70.95]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4A3D01321AC for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 04:36:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=CEw5Kk+FoXkz9QY+n8ukYgcnzDZOtjctP4RlcO/tIkE=; b=O9rH5ZzZTO7b7JLOMRs14Z+8zD47iNFCg576dTO/h7BovW6YxPOX8ZN6ih1JLpoXxWDqi7+zQojXgKkvda2H2cjdZx+1zygmtrzAIWVtZAU65Ocq4Cc5nJQKKIiIAnFpZQVmI6ADU02Q0C0r6rvxobD7saucpSeUDcGO9p09a+krCbe1ZjAwrNKhcPRL57ML61m3GiGhqAX+jgbgA6NaAw3dW2pEcbB/kqbpsgC0vgbUXCGkeXU6NtrXg/OPZSWpEnu6WJQk5tWuPBtvu81wPBbnTV04UmA1hpI2ckYlo8wTMXDoISM07kKbqux56ZX+s90K9F5Nsd4CiVNmognhPQ== Received: from AM5EUR03FT052.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.16.53) by AM5EUR03HT107.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.17.71) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.56.11; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:36:00 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.16.60) by AM5EUR03FT052.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.17.161) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.77.10 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:36:00 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.016; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:36:00 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Alexandre Petrescu CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. 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Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:42:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.48.144 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:42:51 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:42:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:42:55 -0000 > That said, I agree with you that that the technical basis is to allow > encapsulate versions of IP in a same packet header. > This does not justify the statements that this protocol can be developed and deployed in a short time by technology companies. Deploying anything at Internet scale is hard, developing and deploying a new IP version is at least an order of magnitude harder. Even if you were to just change the version number of IPv4 and make no other changes to the protocol, it still would be a stunning amount of work that touches a myriad of devices and systems. End hosts need to change several ways, NIC HW needs to change to support protocol specific features, routers and switches need to be able to deal with new version which most likely will require hardware changes, middleboxes and firewalls need to deal with this, security needs to be fully considered. Monitoring and diagnostic tools need to change, management and administration need changes. But, on top of all that, there's no magic switch that can turn up this new IP version on all hosts and routers on the Internet instantaneously so we need to implement more backoffs like happy eyeballs. Sorry, there is just no easy path here; if there were it would have been applied to IPv6 long ago... > I would also rather say: the technical issue is how to use different > versions of IP in a same IP packet. > >>> Since the initial posting of the IPv10, I and and others have asked >>> several times for an implementation. >> >> >> Yes, this have to be tested because theoretically it works fine > > > I agree with you. Many concepts are first imagined in someone's mind, > then sketched with a pencil on a paper, and discussed. These concepts > work fine theoretically. > >> and I'm not a software developer to test it by myself. > > > You are not. But can you make their job easy? > > Me too I can sketch a concept car on paper, but I doubt any manufacturer > will ever make one :-) Because I dont know how to make cars. > IETF is "rough consensus and running code". It's incumbent on the advocates of a proposed protocol to push for both of these. There's no concept that protocol experts bring their protocols to IETF and then throw over the wall to the protocol developers who happily go off and implement the spec. If you don't have the skills for implementation, then please find someone else to work with who can do it for you. Tom > Alex > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Sat Sep 30 09:54:31 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E64E1332CE for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:54:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.068 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=1.187, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RIts-xvTUhD4 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:54:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-VE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092072069.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.72.69]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 09CA31332CA for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 09:54:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=7XDZBkDRjxAgei28MVgWJD8Wqnn2HFSJXR10n7l7o00=; b=JVoT4iX07ud7xbv2Fg6P1qdoE1YgPvPmF4aNVO1kqoK0/4GbtXv6011/rr6n57lIzkO/UF4mZ4Huy0gjRPHHNxqHzfeSxnYKhAJ5o3+XQ/YY8isPe+zq1OM/iK5QbbnPvOVabjbk87Gah9dC48DUZBEJPzQemZ3j27WBLHhROFv3LzWhQNHm2DDr5mOG/ZqYd7hDhPMVQI8DNK47ZwpGF7BmdCfZjV0WDHP4Tj6loeDZP83R7RUMqMaGSQqROUaFVBmSf7CgdyJxQvlL2MdDjShDLvsiQfuH2mG48nCddmMWHHVgB2p9SINR6Gk8AUMbmLUjml/2NfvXuQnN0PZlpQ== Received: from DB5EUR03FT006.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.20.51) by DB5EUR03HT178.eop-EUR03.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.21.205) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.77.10; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:54:25 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.20.54) by DB5EUR03FT006.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.20.106) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.77.10 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:54:25 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.016; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:54:25 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: Tom Herbert CC: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. Thread-Index: AQHTOcZmbVMoHnv6U0OkVVj1RIgEHaLNosKAgAABU7A= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:54:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:4C4079727827415A52EA709328DF86068CB9D4441182A2A376BE5BCFE38DFAFC; UpperCasedChecksum:234D194978A7AEBFA57C8A82FB74F1021AF7B72B02984B2A214FE10145B6CA40; SizeAsReceived:7665; Count:46 x-tmn: [/LL1gCYDoB6KGUQkYIycf4s5GtkyeEC0] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; DB5EUR03HT178; 6:3Mm55nrczfkyjiKEFk/E8PmpZ14RBWH6WG1CbsoIxuZ5XbUEwFgtpXRU/Io1RKY7Z6nKjSuoNaDmFZNL2dt9kfLgVm3zkjLBFfGS1021aHM+F9fFs27Qy+u2lebNdTH745e+6Na3dkBsXLfqcZusUsOwbSIgFoTXNkzpnkp49+V8EHkwGefneA3PMv6q055tLbC845Z4cODaxvtKPJT7TY3WoxBG2cdj1zTEUH6qucwwNOGARqLbqPTW17wBWuhcZzTKEt/lMl3VK66tsUwD1EpwcPgj3sl7lnc1UVEpA+VRzp1Q0HVrGX/Qlguk7iJftR0jQB8s7TTVx2wI07JXUQ==; 5:ACslRRDbG097VujK5lrkvd4KXhBNy+AvMYcXHBi0E1S7KwhJ6K5sH8K892I5v8B4ftYXvfw7KBz1JPYYiTkazTd/+MfH4QWJ6npPpM0XICeM2LczL+ajlI4pkpvTQ/ardXGlc9Mg24F1VLth9S5Wdg==; 24:gFfugU7lqIlBGjpHwf3l5wDvV3IV29G05KcRsQp+utJDZCHmrbSFGeYvEd87h4/k+ZyttduipoxfW7DkwlpjJb16oOddxa2MztZAODf+OtQ=; 7:UaDBcHgAbaWEqsOwloQTWGypmeC6/03/ShHSLXhvYt+05LK7bFViYquFGXx1vxk6VQiULMZIM0jA0iIUPnJx0VE5Gnz+kIelPo/8A5cP5EnERJw0QiPBDFava6wGfv7NkSc4Hp0fK6HwQ4Z0IZ4i57jkzh0Xlo6dfprC7YuSkA2gz3zY6R5LyNPIhKWB4BSZ5bYm9VeO9rlP04+njtWNyILOpzllvGb6ewiBc6goBAQ= x-incomingheadercount: 46 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: cd02cd8f-b2ae-4e77-afc1-08d50823e85a x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045); SRVR:DB5EUR03HT178; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DB5EUR03HT178: authentication-results: outbound.protection.outlook.com; spf=skipped (originating message); dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(72170088055959)(192374486261705)(100405760836317)(231250463719595); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031); SRVR:DB5EUR03HT178; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:DB5EUR03HT178; x-forefront-prvs: 0446F0FCE1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:DB5EUR03HT178; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Sep 2017 16:54:25.7302 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: DB5EUR03HT178 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:54:30 -0000 Hi Tom, I agree with most of what you have said, but changing the way of encapsulat= ion is not a hard work for running a code for all network devices and hosts= to be able to understand the new packet. There is difference between deploying IPv6 and implementing IPv6, IPv6 was = deployed in almost all OSs and network devices in a short time, but impleme= nting IPv6 by enterprises' users is the problem because there is a dependen= ce on them, they have to do it by themselves. For IPmix, there is only deployment process that will be done by technology= companies, and enterprises' users will do nothing, they will keep using th= eir version of IP and regardless of the version they are using, they will b= e able to access 100% of the Internet. Regarding running a code, there is no problem in that, a wg of people will = make things easier than letting only one do it by himself, collaboration is= requested. Khaled -----Original Message----- From: Int-area [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tom Herbert Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 6:43 PM To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: int-area@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. > That said, I agree with you that that the technical basis is to allow=20 > encapsulate versions of IP in a same packet header. > This does not justify the statements that this protocol can be developed an= d deployed in a short time by technology companies. Deploying anything at Internet scale is hard, developing and deploying a ne= w IP version is at least an order of magnitude harder. Even if you were to = just change the version number of IPv4 and make no other changes to the pro= tocol, it still would be a stunning amount of work that touches a myriad of= devices and systems. End hosts need to change several ways, NIC HW needs t= o change to support protocol specific features, routers and switches need t= o be able to deal with new version which most likely will require hardware = changes, middleboxes and firewalls need to deal with this, security needs t= o be fully considered. Monitoring and diagnostic tools need to change, mana= gement and administration need changes. But, on top of all that, there's no= magic switch that can turn up this new IP version on all hosts and routers= on the Internet instantaneously so we need to implement more backoffs like= happy eyeballs. Sorry, there is just no easy path here; if there were it w= ould have been applied to IPv6 long ago... > I would also rather say: the technical issue is how to use different=20 > versions of IP in a same IP packet. > >>> Since the initial posting of the IPv10, I and and others have asked=20 >>> several times for an implementation. >> >> >> Yes, this have to be tested because theoretically it works fine > > > I agree with you. Many concepts are first imagined in someone's =20 > mind, then sketched with a pencil on a paper, and discussed. These=20 > concepts work fine theoretically. > >> and I'm not a software developer to test it by myself. > > > You are not. But can you make their job easy? > > Me too I can sketch a concept car on paper, but I doubt any=20 > manufacturer will ever make one :-) Because I dont know how to make cars= . > IETF is "rough consensus and running code". It's incumbent on the advocates= of a proposed protocol to push for both of these. There's no concept that = protocol experts bring their protocols to IETF and then throw over the wall= to the protocol developers who happily go off and implement the spec. If y= ou don't have the skills for implementation, then please find someone else = to work with who can do it for you. Tom > Alex > > > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Sat Sep 30 10:00:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7583D13318C for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:00:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=Guyf0P7i; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=yitter.info header.b=U+eI5c7r Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AGTM_9a9T9ri for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx4.yitter.info (mx4.yitter.info [159.203.56.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4FAF5132A89 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 10:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx4.yitter.info (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93EA6BEDA1 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:59:44 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1506790784; bh=Y9jbYatOkPtZvHa2UnQp9BIxu27t+c76mGQkEnrIKKI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=Guyf0P7iJcnOtI7OIKRQGxfYWM5xy90uwDcrxsDiRaSbBspEBcDAYpD1POw7BT0iq S+/JtYb0Swvbh5hoJrXpOZxbGYT/4WZMF0A5AjjgYMuR++xVR7OqqGTKujje3VKj7V VhR0ArFuRnQ5Nc2XSyBvtEUOlvImSp/FigRoR6uk= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at crankycanuck.ca Received: from mx4.yitter.info ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mx4.yitter.info [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GbHzkZZtul5w for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 16:59:43 +0000 (UTC) Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:59:40 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yitter.info; s=default; t=1506790783; bh=Y9jbYatOkPtZvHa2UnQp9BIxu27t+c76mGQkEnrIKKI=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:References:In-Reply-To:From; b=U+eI5c7ra6aoH/GoQuAnfyIn1KJifPNPuYY4AXTnQPMoBxkFl3ivsGIKB0oh2TdqD pzh3O5s2S3kJLuQsXFAuK32p5PZToRh7dHwt8GbPZTixsSbjieY7spWeahltc8GdSV vcbvPpA1//xYAKDY8jss4qz44zddyo667Dt+BJss= From: Andrew Sullivan To: int-area@ietf.org Message-ID: <20170930165940.2rpmulms6nkxb277@mx4.yitter.info> References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 17:00:16 -0000 Hi, The fact that this topic won't go away from this list in which I am otherwise interested gives us a pragmatic reason to give it its own list. Can we please do that so that I can stop hearing about this visit from either the Bad Idea Fairy or the Late Idea Fairy? Best regards, A -- Andrew Sullivan ajs@anvilwalrusden.com From nobody Sat Sep 30 11:43:50 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6D26132F30 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:43:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.125 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.125 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.972, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L38bYHb2iZzs for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:43:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B54EA128D0D for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:43:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8UIhhJf027399; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:43:43 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id A71A72061A1; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:43:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99A9820143B; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:43:43 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.97] ([132.166.84.97]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8UIhfVb026632; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:43:41 +0200 To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <8f3723b9-dad8-1b17-6266-52dbf4b1349f@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <5693b85d-1100-9ba2-13b3-db6977bfaf7c@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:43:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:43:50 -0000 Khaled, Le 30/09/2017 à 13:36, Khaled Omar a écrit : > Hi Alex, > >> NAT64 (RFC6146) already allows "IPv6 only hosts to communicate to >> IPv4 only hosts and vice versa”. > > As mentioned on the draft, NAT64 requires so much translations Why NAT64 requires translation? > binding in addition to getting the DNS64 involved in the > communication process that’s why NAT64 is not widespread. NAT64 is not very widespread, but there is running code for it. Running code is a really great thing. Alex > > Khaled > > -----Original Message----- From: Int-area > [mailto:int-area-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Alexandre Petrescu > Sent: Saturday, September 30, 2017 10:08 AM To: int-area@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. > > > > Le 29/09/2017 à 18:47, Suresh Krishnan a écrit : >> Hi Khaled, >> >>> On Sep 29, 2017, at 12:31 PM, Khaled Omar >>> >> > wrote: >>> >>> Hi Suresh, The problem I’m trying to solve is to overcome the >>> depletion of IPv4 address space and the lack of implementing IPv6 >>> , this will cause the IPv6 only hosts not to be able to access >>> the whole internet as there will be IPv6 only hosts (18% of the >>> Internet traffic) against the domination of IPv4 only hosts (82% >>> of the Internet traffic), >> >> The part that is not clear is why you believe IPv10 will be any >> more successful or quicker to widespread deployment than IPv6. Can >> you share your thoughts? >> >>> IPmix allows IPv6 only hosts to communicate to IPv4 only hosts >>> and vice versa, and this will allow the coexistence of both >>> version without any separation or division on the Internet >> >> NAT64 (RFC6146) already allows "IPv6 only hosts to communicate to >> IPv4 only hosts and vice versa”. > > I think I agree. > > NAT64 may have some advantages, have a user base, but it may also > have some drawbacks. > > The same about DNS64 RFC6147. > > If I remember correctly, NAT64, and/or DNS64, maye have been worked > in the v6ops WG? > > Was it considered to bring this work to v6ops? > > Alex > >> >> Regards Suresh >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing >> list Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area >> > > _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing > list Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Sat Sep 30 11:46:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 628E2132F30 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:46:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.126 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.126 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.972] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wWXXQWgb14-B for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:46:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (cirse-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.148]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ACEBB128D0D for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by cirse-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8UIkClt026012; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:46:12 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id A36D8205F93; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CDE9203683; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:46:12 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.97] ([132.166.84.97]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8UIkBiu027087; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:46:12 +0200 To: Khaled Omar Cc: int-area References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: <6a5aaf1b-544c-4275-8c79-5bedafcaa841@gmail.com> Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:46:11 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:46:18 -0000 Le 30/09/2017 à 13:39, Khaled Omar a écrit : >> and I'm not a software developer to test it by myself. >>> You are not. But can you make their job easy? > > I cannot do everything by myself, that’s why I'm discussing with the > IETF to make a group of participants working together to achieve the > same purpose which is IPmix. But before one can dream of getting a group, one must meet people at IETF face-to-face meetings. Do you plan to come to IETF face-to-face meetings? The next one is in a country in Asia, in November. Alex From nobody Sat Sep 30 11:51:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C1C3A1331FF for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:51:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.068 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.068 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD2=1.187, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=hotmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OxoU0WsU8Cva for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:51:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR02-HE1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-oln040092068096.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.92.68.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BD4EE128D0D for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:51:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=hotmail.com; s=selector1; h=From:Date:Subject:Message-ID:Content-Type:MIME-Version; bh=ID0ekaC8qoueMsr0Cr7hIEcCMLy4T40df7g412jJRuo=; b=fZ/BmRaf4nMZtmM4P0dqRnIYV2UHsCfUMkgL/pa+9vlRktzwVrhfotzzP/DvVcAICc2ZigXYF3uCBu2qrzBjab+vnmmy5wohq6e64XFjf09YtQlTrpBt1Quz30KHRrIy20+zENaJyECl5s46Qx9UKfvgQAzwBSbp2ifmoJ14WuN7o3Na5U/Lg/i3bU5AF5noSCDY4CZowauUoc3mGyzMiGAKqG8OPta2Cah+w4FYMwa34QulW5QBK3d7V+yWCmSvBagrjtAWBq6TsGiWdPOJr3ZeG+WtzBxZOFOMJXvDwVXAjsGGC7OKuFLqZTjRKVw22bHTIfg3teLNDRTmWWafpA== Received: from AM5EUR02FT045.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.8.52) by AM5EUR02HT161.eop-EUR02.prod.protection.outlook.com (10.152.9.133) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P384) id 15.20.77.10; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:51:52 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com (10.152.8.57) by AM5EUR02FT045.mail.protection.outlook.com (10.152.9.159) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.20.77.10 via Frontend Transport; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:51:52 +0000 Received: from AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc]) by AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::a057:8f46:bb80:fbc%17]) with mapi id 15.20.0077.016; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:51:52 +0000 From: Khaled Omar To: int-area Thread-Topic: [Int-area] Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. Thread-Index: AdM5EANDzz2e4l2WSSaNIONpXCmFKAALbiCAAAB0TIAAAMI/gAAgJQSAAAc56RAADv3dgAAALg5gAAAXh7A= Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:51:52 +0000 Message-ID: References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <8f3723b9-dad8-1b17-6266-52dbf4b1349f@gmail.com> <5693b85d-1100-9ba2-13b3-db6977bfaf7c@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=hotmail.com; x-incomingtopheadermarker: OriginalChecksum:F30284664888E0B65C1FD40DBFBC4F2A419001660D8273C5CCDE115461E42180; UpperCasedChecksum:E28D719EA8FEBAC9E616AFF6E7548E077D1E3CDE30339B8BB5CC13A309EB5446; SizeAsReceived:7395; Count:44 x-tmn: [DT8aTTDx5l+cqVCD3S9wGxmwe57oKTS7] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; AM5EUR02HT161; 6:c6yTQdmrwjDHfOtvMWdtCXp31+q0TTQvB/CvPiWoMoN3xYTubvYj9/MCKKXK5ZqsFCMUY+iN0IwVFeEEuEKeaqNUSuO+wggPe7Zrb6P6Y9LUbKOY61X4I50Z3zqjzSAQrkoW3kAEleKu1sx8u0es+8uFLosXOT+gISYivzh1RNJjU4CEzwmDQeNSVhSFthtVpLqMHaHvoXvVcAjki/M/ovRaQOR4//pM0+PcuKjCH0AhDXziGdsumYWS562eFHxbQP3ZDHsxVUFhrfF7vL8AudsH7fON1XXzqqdleB9sUK6K/p2mbSte0p0XaV3dOcSVhf7hT9rGoN0kxzazlnQk+w==; 5:EvqbcQbTyqgko8LsFetYzxZMw69S9ryP7QlodrWHE2nOwPymj4rM2+k2tOweoQHPR/CSFesb3ReECh5WBMFWYsrXUS7l1ZBTvcbReiT4qyxoRA7vrcRVNDai/W0ZfrnqEx4g88vLQfXxXGoJh/GecQ==; 24:fpNTf/9PvHldsIhit9IS3eq/r1fu03dJNp2kbYLmjAzq61uyJ/WblpsAsSEY9n0lFn9hGwnvUR84fI/XF04CFc8NRnqukKbzLhebll1Ma8s=; 7:qYGZROF5w4BL6PtadlLw0UO+wQrYQMV7DbQpE3CZZEAuaM+FJyfAS5aq+1s3jJ8/2K7G5dxT9iVm1gLyRvgZA+nyE02nECtgIMP4htGbiDtAGkNhfoMmbOaNxsOvx/85PIFSylh+wuC7fZGO0F1MH53P5GsUVrczP58xMzdpC5oFpE+DY1tUrXPl8i7uf1CvXxjC7+RBF7Xx22WeciB22E7LASsv7on3124J8xi6QIQ= x-incomingheadercount: 44 x-eopattributedmessage: 0 x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: e8090f5b-925a-450d-8d1f-08d5083450b5 x-microsoft-antispam: UriScan:; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(22001)(201702061074)(5061506573)(5061507331)(1603103135)(2017031320274)(2017031324274)(2017031323274)(2017031322404)(1603101448)(1601125374)(1701031045); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT161; x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: AM5EUR02HT161: x-exchange-antispam-report-test: UriScan:(130873036417446)(194151415913766); x-exchange-antispam-report-cfa-test: BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000700101)(100105000095)(100000701101)(100105300095)(100000702101)(100105100095)(444000031); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT161; BCL:0; PCL:0; RULEID:(100000800101)(100110000095)(100000801101)(100110300095)(100000802101)(100110100095)(100000803101)(100110400095)(100000804101)(100110200095)(100000805101)(100110500095); SRVR:AM5EUR02HT161; x-forefront-prvs: 0446F0FCE1 x-forefront-antispam-report: SFV:NSPM; SFS:(7070007)(98901004); DIR:OUT; SFP:1901; SCL:1; SRVR:AM5EUR02HT161; H:AM4PR0401MB2241.eurprd04.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 30 Sep 2017 18:51:52.7408 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM5EUR02HT161 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:51:58 -0000 LS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEtoYWxlZCBPbWFyIA0KU2VudDogU2F0 dXJkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAzMCwgMjAxNyA4OjUxIFBNDQpUbzogJ0FsZXhhbmRyZSBQZXRyZXNj dScNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJFOiBbSW50LWFyZWFdIFJlcXVlc3QgZm9yIGEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IHRv IElQbWl4IEktRC4NCg0KQWxleCwNCg0KPiBXaHkgTkFUNjQgcmVxdWlyZXMgdHJhbnNsYXRpb24/ DQoNCkhvdyBhIGRlc3RpbmF0aW9uIElQdjQgd2lsbCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kIGFuIElQdjYgcGFja2V0 IHdpdGhvdXQgdHJhbnNsYXRpb24gYnkgc3RhdGljYWxseSBjb25maWd1cmVkIGJpbmRpbmchIQ0K DQpLaGFsZWQNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEFsZXhhbmRyZSBQ ZXRyZXNjdSBbbWFpbHRvOmFsZXhhbmRyZS5wZXRyZXNjdUBnbWFpbC5jb21dDQpTZW50OiBTYXR1 cmRheSwgU2VwdGVtYmVyIDMwLCAyMDE3IDg6NDQgUE0NClRvOiBLaGFsZWQgT21hcg0KQ2M6IGlu dC1hcmVhDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0ludC1hcmVhXSBSZXF1ZXN0IGZvciBhIG1haWxpbmcgbGlz dCB0byBJUG1peCBJLUQuDQoNCktoYWxlZCwNCg0KTGUgMzAvMDkvMjAxNyDDoCAxMzozNiwgS2hh bGVkIE9tYXIgYSDDqWNyaXQgOg0KPiBIaSBBbGV4LA0KPiANCj4+IE5BVDY0IChSRkM2MTQ2KSBh bHJlYWR5IGFsbG93cyAiSVB2NiBvbmx5IGhvc3RzIHRvIGNvbW11bmljYXRlIHRvDQo+PiBJUHY0 IG9ubHkgaG9zdHMgYW5kIHZpY2UgdmVyc2HigJ0uDQo+IA0KPiBBcyBtZW50aW9uZWQgb24gdGhl IGRyYWZ0LCBOQVQ2NCByZXF1aXJlcyBzbyBtdWNoIHRyYW5zbGF0aW9ucw0KDQpXaHkgTkFUNjQg cmVxdWlyZXMgdHJhbnNsYXRpb24/DQoNCj4gYmluZGluZyBpbiBhZGRpdGlvbiB0byBnZXR0aW5n IHRoZSBETlM2NCBpbnZvbHZlZCBpbiB0aGUgY29tbXVuaWNhdGlvbiANCj4gcHJvY2VzcyB0aGF0 4oCZcyB3aHkgTkFUNjQgaXMgbm90IHdpZGVzcHJlYWQuDQoNCk5BVDY0IGlzIG5vdCB2ZXJ5IHdp ZGVzcHJlYWQsIGJ1dCB0aGVyZSBpcyBydW5uaW5nIGNvZGUgZm9yIGl0Lg0KDQpSdW5uaW5nIGNv ZGUgaXMgYSByZWFsbHkgZ3JlYXQgdGhpbmcuDQoNCkFsZXgNCg0KPiANCj4gS2hhbGVkDQo+IA0K PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLSBGcm9tOiBJbnQtYXJlYSANCj4gW21haWx0bzpp bnQtYXJlYS1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgQWxleGFuZHJlIFBldHJlc2N1 DQo+IFNlbnQ6IFNhdHVyZGF5LCBTZXB0ZW1iZXIgMzAsIDIwMTcgMTA6MDggQU0gVG86IGludC1h cmVhQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IFN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbSW50LWFyZWFdIFJlcXVlc3QgZm9yIGEgbWFp bGluZyBsaXN0IHRvIElQbWl4IEktRC4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gTGUgMjkvMDkvMjAxNyDDoCAx ODo0NywgU3VyZXNoIEtyaXNobmFuIGEgw6ljcml0IDoNCj4+IEhpIEtoYWxlZCwNCj4+IA0KPj4+ IE9uIFNlcCAyOSwgMjAxNywgYXQgMTI6MzEgUE0sIEtoYWxlZCBPbWFyIA0KPj4+IDxlbmcua2hh bGVkLm9tYXJAaG90bWFpbC5jb20gPG1haWx0bzplbmcua2hhbGVkLm9tYXJAaG90bWFpbC5jb20+ Pg0KPj4+IHdyb3RlOg0KPj4+IA0KPj4+IEhpIFN1cmVzaCwgVGhlIHByb2JsZW0gSeKAmW0gdHJ5 aW5nIHRvIHNvbHZlIGlzIHRvIG92ZXJjb21lIHRoZSANCj4+PiBkZXBsZXRpb24gb2YgSVB2NCBh ZGRyZXNzIHNwYWNlIGFuZCB0aGUgbGFjayBvZiBpbXBsZW1lbnRpbmcgSVB2NiAsIA0KPj4+IHRo aXMgd2lsbCBjYXVzZSB0aGUgSVB2NiBvbmx5IGhvc3RzIG5vdCB0byBiZSBhYmxlIHRvIGFjY2Vz cyB0aGUgDQo+Pj4gd2hvbGUgaW50ZXJuZXQgYXMgdGhlcmUgd2lsbCBiZSBJUHY2IG9ubHkgaG9z dHMgKDE4JSBvZiB0aGUgSW50ZXJuZXQNCj4+PiB0cmFmZmljKSBhZ2FpbnN0IHRoZSBkb21pbmF0 aW9uIG9mIElQdjQgb25seSBob3N0cyAoODIlIG9mIHRoZSANCj4+PiBJbnRlcm5ldCB0cmFmZmlj KSwNCj4+IA0KPj4gVGhlIHBhcnQgdGhhdCBpcyBub3QgY2xlYXIgaXMgd2h5IHlvdSBiZWxpZXZl IElQdjEwIHdpbGwgYmUgYW55IG1vcmUgDQo+PiBzdWNjZXNzZnVsIG9yIHF1aWNrZXIgdG8gd2lk ZXNwcmVhZCBkZXBsb3ltZW50IHRoYW4gSVB2Ni4gQ2FuIHlvdSANCj4+IHNoYXJlIHlvdXIgdGhv dWdodHM/DQo+PiANCj4+PiBJUG1peCBhbGxvd3MgSVB2NiBvbmx5IGhvc3RzIHRvIGNvbW11bmlj YXRlIHRvIElQdjQgb25seSBob3N0cyBhbmQgDQo+Pj4gdmljZSB2ZXJzYSwgYW5kIHRoaXMgd2ls bCBhbGxvdyB0aGUgY29leGlzdGVuY2Ugb2YgYm90aCB2ZXJzaW9uIA0KPj4+IHdpdGhvdXQgYW55 IHNlcGFyYXRpb24gb3IgZGl2aXNpb24gb24gdGhlIEludGVybmV0DQo+PiANCj4+IE5BVDY0IChS RkM2MTQ2KSBhbHJlYWR5IGFsbG93cyAiSVB2NiBvbmx5IGhvc3RzIHRvIGNvbW11bmljYXRlIHRv DQo+PiBJUHY0IG9ubHkgaG9zdHMgYW5kIHZpY2UgdmVyc2HigJ0uDQo+IA0KPiBJIHRoaW5rIEkg YWdyZWUuDQo+IA0KPiBOQVQ2NCBtYXkgaGF2ZSBzb21lIGFkdmFudGFnZXMsIGhhdmUgYSB1c2Vy IGJhc2UsIGJ1dCBpdCBtYXkgYWxzbyBoYXZlIA0KPiBzb21lIGRyYXdiYWNrcy4NCj4gDQo+IFRo ZSBzYW1lIGFib3V0IEROUzY0IFJGQzYxNDcuDQo+IA0KPiBJZiBJIHJlbWVtYmVyIGNvcnJlY3Rs eSwgTkFUNjQsIGFuZC9vciBETlM2NCwgbWF5ZSBoYXZlIGJlZW4gd29ya2VkIGluIA0KPiB0aGUg djZvcHMgV0c/DQo+IA0KPiBXYXMgaXQgY29uc2lkZXJlZCB0byBicmluZyB0aGlzIHdvcmsgdG8g djZvcHM/DQo+IA0KPiBBbGV4DQo+IA0KPj4gDQo+PiBSZWdhcmRzIFN1cmVzaA0KPj4gDQo+PiAN Cj4+IA0KPj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18g SW50LWFyZWEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IA0KPj4gSW50LWFyZWFAaWV0Zi5vcmcgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cu aWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pbnQtYXJlYQ0KPj4gDQo+IA0KPiBfX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXyBJbnQtYXJlYSBtYWlsaW5nIGxp c3QgDQo+IEludC1hcmVhQGlldGYub3JnIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vaW50LWFyZWENCj4gDQo= From nobody Sat Sep 30 11:53:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4BBB013309D for ; 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X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:53:37 -0000 PiBCdXQgYmVmb3JlIG9uZSBjYW4gZHJlYW0gb2YgZ2V0dGluZyBhIGdyb3VwLCBvbmUgbXVzdCBt ZWV0IHBlb3BsZSBhdCBJRVRGIGZhY2UtdG8tZmFjZSBtZWV0aW5ncy4NCg0KPiBEbyB5b3UgcGxh biB0byBjb21lIHRvIElFVEYgZmFjZS10by1mYWNlIG1lZXRpbmdzPyAgVGhlIG5leHQgb25lIGlz IGluIGEgY291bnRyeSBpbiBBc2lhLCBpbiBOb3ZlbWJlci4NCg0KSXQgd2lsbCBiZSBteSBwbGVh c3VyZSB0byBtZWV0IGFsbCBvZiB5b3UgZmFjZS10by1mYWNlIGFuZCBJIGhvcGUgdG8gYmUgYWJs ZSB0byBhdHRlbmQgdGhlIG5leHQgSUVURiBtZWV0aW5nLg0KDQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBN ZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEFsZXhhbmRyZSBQZXRyZXNjdSBbbWFpbHRvOmFsZXhhbmRyZS5w ZXRyZXNjdUBnbWFpbC5jb21dIA0KU2VudDogU2F0dXJkYXksIFNlcHRlbWJlciAzMCwgMjAxNyA4 OjQ2IFBNDQpUbzogS2hhbGVkIE9tYXINCkNjOiBpbnQtYXJlYQ0KU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtJbnQt YXJlYV0gRlc6IFJlcXVlc3QgZm9yIGEgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0IHRvIElQbWl4IEktRC4NCg0KTGUg MzAvMDkvMjAxNyDDoCAxMzozOSwgS2hhbGVkIE9tYXIgYSDDqWNyaXQgOg0KPj4gYW5kIEknbSBu b3QgYSBzb2Z0d2FyZSBkZXZlbG9wZXIgdG8gdGVzdCBpdCBieSBteXNlbGYuDQo+Pj4gWW91IGFy ZSBub3QuICBCdXQgY2FuIHlvdSBtYWtlIHRoZWlyIGpvYiBlYXN5Pw0KPiANCj4gSSBjYW5ub3Qg ZG8gZXZlcnl0aGluZyBieSBteXNlbGYsIHRoYXTigJlzIHdoeSBJJ20gZGlzY3Vzc2luZyB3aXRo IHRoZSANCj4gSUVURiB0byBtYWtlIGEgZ3JvdXAgb2YgcGFydGljaXBhbnRzIHdvcmtpbmcgdG9n ZXRoZXIgdG8gYWNoaWV2ZSB0aGUgDQo+IHNhbWUgcHVycG9zZSB3aGljaCBpcyBJUG1peC4NCg0K QnV0IGJlZm9yZSBvbmUgY2FuIGRyZWFtIG9mIGdldHRpbmcgYSBncm91cCwgb25lIG11c3QgbWVl dCBwZW9wbGUgYXQgSUVURiBmYWNlLXRvLWZhY2UgbWVldGluZ3MuDQoNCkRvIHlvdSBwbGFuIHRv IGNvbWUgdG8gSUVURiBmYWNlLXRvLWZhY2UgbWVldGluZ3M/ICBUaGUgbmV4dCBvbmUgaXMgaW4g YSBjb3VudHJ5IGluIEFzaWEsIGluIE5vdmVtYmVyLg0KDQpBbGV4DQo= From nobody Sat Sep 30 11:59:14 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54C4213309D for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:59:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.125 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.125 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.972, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cwaSEQgSFc9O for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 40FA7132125 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 11:59:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v8UIx8qi036474; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:59:08 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id E597220624B; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:59:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8FBA206120; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:59:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [132.166.84.97] ([132.166.84.97]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v8UIx6fK029162; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:59:07 +0200 To: Tom Herbert Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 20:59:06 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 18:59:13 -0000 Tom, Le 30/09/2017 à 18:42, Tom Herbert a écrit : >> That said, I agree with you that that the technical basis is to >> allow encapsulate versions of IP in a same packet header. >> > This does not justify the statements that this protocol can be > developed and deployed in a short time by technology companies. > Deploying anything at Internet scale is hard, I agree putting anything at Internet scale is hard. Internet is a large system. People who try the migration from IPv4 to IPv6 are not dumb. They try very hard. Yet, it takes decades. That is explained by the fact that Internet is already very large. It is not as simple as the 1980 migration from NCP to TCP protocol, which happened in months. The Internet was much smaller at that time. There is absolutely no expectation that some new IP-v-something can be any more successful than what IPv6 already achieved at Internet scale. Such expectation can be qualified as foolish. [...] > End hosts need to change several ways, NIC HW needs to change to > support protocol specific features, routers and switches need to be > able to deal with new version [...] I agree. But I would like to understand whether the proposal (no name) may work without modifying all the intermediary routers. If all intermediary routers must be modified to support it, then (proposal) can not work. Also, some of the most widespread deployments of IPv6 do _not_ modify the intermediary routers: they are tunnelled in IPv4. So maybe this (proposal) could also be a tunnelled overlay network. But we'd need running code to see it :-) [...] > IETF is "rough consensus and running code". It's incumbent on the > advocates of a proposed protocol to push for both of these. There's > no concept that protocol experts bring their protocols to IETF and > then throw over the wall to the protocol developers who happily go > off and implement the spec. If you don't have the skills for > implementation, then please find someone else to work with who can do > it for you. I fully agree. Alex > > Tom > >> Alex >> >> >> _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing >> list Int-area@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area > From nobody Sat Sep 30 12:24:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 17C4D1332E1 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:24:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wwYjVUSfyuIV for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:24:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-qk0-x236.google.com (mail-qk0-x236.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::236]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0CD191330B3 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:24:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-qk0-x236.google.com with SMTP id u7so1766853qku.13 for ; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:24:27 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=n7mDSJwDy4TC3VLA03hi2ZI9ol5xHyQLTfoF5LtL5Sc=; b=BL8afL3BoS63LjTaluT1B3dlBINyZGoNcOw/x/KZ6aRnY6ODnEjmNWS8BLMxrImp1Q zVhhliiLzE+Ef3Bs7wJPhJuHjgXAvUrKZgEIZioG4YKMlZzqW6n2T2iZmoQilXIDc3uY B121qvZs5lbuQg0zNOqyX7AmHIO522usXd/U1eTYMKJRu0nmfVCVGw+utSbWvkFoWJIS 7utU724qe0MUE5YfCyLHrRkWT5nn9tX7v0BnFBireqaIWYTthmiTtkEgW/6sE2Oes0e/ j4Lax9YSyFRqJH8xFSyYPKuqwSYTUygy1Dic28aWkxpIG2NzIMy9vffvE9Hky5Ol5Zqc oDQQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=n7mDSJwDy4TC3VLA03hi2ZI9ol5xHyQLTfoF5LtL5Sc=; b=kUihrEFV+6NjEHglNhS0ElXgOhzWZE4FXvcPUmIySZePQ9PY1pffut7v6bhxhTldhx HcaQpMVFMLhsojohBIilpyV4q5SCFNyhZKEijMrflCobRF1lIyljyRFPj8GHoCFi7tD8 z/gSTCI9Hl0fPqDfiVrZOXvxyiAeqL7ey9u1xi8CAiCIG5H8qGae488+yLmcX2eBkWTe QU9YJ1VU1rOP1HrMZKOx7Sf0yl5+RGN5rh6tTy3g4gj1AxRFEUjRKuTrIJTeUv2j81rx AX/DLi6lLzXwdfJToXuZOmJeHk/AyWgsdIV29aN32hT0tazIcBF4m7zlUBbxtSaVnBw6 fb2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AMCzsaUQUfSf8C7iaOSih3iCLPQY9EqCMN8xfOTqrC2viyWgx3TbFbnF cqXHrkU2oRARAfntNBH/2HgHXrpjXw4NXEyeCMG3Gw== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QCSKTyRsjgdAVBvfuew7dT1qf4mN/68HOW99IQGUPdDrszNcJpy0brWzgQgRAOkPnSBEvuqLbPuGbTI+kmZJmc= X-Received: by 10.55.76.200 with SMTP id z191mr8876748qka.102.1506799467146; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:24:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.48.144 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:24:26 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <888CE74B-7945-4B4E-87CC-1A455FEC806E@gmail.com> <42fec588-6de0-6baa-64f0-70b9cfe380b3@gmail.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 12:24:26 -0700 Message-ID: To: Alexandre Petrescu Cc: "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: Request for a mailing list to IPmix I-D. X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Sep 2017 19:24:29 -0000 Alexandre, > But I would like to understand whether the proposal (no name) may work > without modifying all the intermediary routers. If all intermediary > routers must be modified to support it, then (proposal) can not work. > Then that would end up tunneling the new protocol over IPv6 and IPv4. But we already can tunnel both v4 and v6 over v4 and v6 in all combinations. And as pointed out NAT64 can do protocol translations to have hosts running different version be able to communicate. > Also, some of the most widespread deployments of IPv6 do _not_ modify > the intermediary routers: they are tunnelled in IPv4. > > So maybe this (proposal) could also be a tunnelled overlay network. > Sure it could be, but what is the value of it? If you want to tunnel there are already enough encapsulations and translations to cover the various combinations. Tom