From nobody Sat Dec 2 13:35:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8EEFC128DF2; Sat, 2 Dec 2017 13:35:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Yaron Sheffer To: Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org, int-area@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151225050650.7531.17448190244687268847@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 13:35:06 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 Dec 2017 21:35:07 -0000 Reviewer: Yaron Sheffer Review result: Has Issues Summary The Security Considerations section is extensive, given that this is not a major protocol. However I think a few additional security risks should be mentioned, see below. In addition, there are several points where this (arguably uneducated) reader was confused, and which could benefit from additional clarity. Details (security-related) * The probed interface can be identified by an IEEE 802 address (presumably, a MAC address). This is an important detail from a security point of view. Normally you don't expect a remote node to be able to access machines by MAC address, and many firewall deployments enforce access control solely at the IP level. * Similarly, in an IPv4 setting, the proxy can be identified by a routable address, and used to probe a non-routable (RFC 1918) address. * "The incoming ICMP Extend Echo Request carries a source address that is not explicitly authorized for the incoming ICMP Extended Echo Request L-bit setting" - this implies a per-node whitelist listing all IP addresses that are allowed to probe it. I don't think we mean seriously to list all the addresses that can ping a given node, so this smells like security theater - sorry. Other Details * Abstract: I think the word "alternatively" should really be "instead" (also in the Introduction). * "The proxy interface resides on a probed node" - this contradicts the previous paragraph that states that either the proxy is on the same node, or it has direct connectivity to it (and is presumably on a different node). * "The probed interface can reside on the probed node or it can be directly connected to the probed node." I'm confused. This contradicts the first paragraph of the Intro: "The probing interface resides on a probing node while the probed interface resides on a probed node." * "encapsulated in an IP header" - shouldn't that be "in an IP packet" (at least for IPv4)? * "Ethernet is running on the probed interface" - is this well-defined? There are numerous 802.* protocols. Do we mean any of them? Or just 802.3? From nobody Mon Dec 4 06:01:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 731F8127522; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 06:01:51 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Stefan Winter To: Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org, int-area@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.66.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151239611143.6427.18267553739051828038@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 06:01:51 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Opsdir telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:01:51 -0000 Reviewer: Stefan Winter Review result: Has Issues Issues: * Introduction states "[...] if it appears in the IPv4 Address Resolution Protocol (ARP) table [RFC0826] or IPv6 Neighbor Cache [RFC4861]." "Appears" is a rather loose word, as entries in those tables can have multiple states. E.g. for IPv6, which of the states DELAY, STALE, REACHABLE do you mean? All? Or only a subset? In IPv4, do you mean the "C" flag exclusively? Also, when the proxy operates remotely (i.e. bases the reply on ARP/Neighbor Cache rather than ifOperStatus), does it actively ping the interface in question itself? If not, how does it handle an interface address which is not in the ARP/Neighbour table simply because the entry has timed out? The interface might be up and active nontheless. In such a case, reporting "does not exist" is false. * Request -> L-Bit. I don't get it. The Request part of the spec is used by the probING node. It always sends the request to a proxy node. The proxy node then is the one to figure out by local state if the interface that is to be probed is local to itself, or on a link. Now the question is of course: what purpose does setting the L-Bit on the *request* serve? The probed interface either is local to the proxy node or it's not; no amount of flipping bits changes the reality. I can see how this L-bit information could be set in a *Response* as an information element. But that's not what the document says; the document actually states two contradictory things a) L (local) - The L-bit is set if the probed interface resides on the probed node. The L-bit is clear if the probed interface is directly connected to the probed node [doesn't make sense, see above] b) If the L-bit is set, the Interface Identification Object identifies the probed interface by name, index or address. It the L-bit is clear, the Interface Identification Object identifies the probed interface by address. [ makes more sense, but conflicts with previous statement] The latter formulation be also begs the questions a) why would one ever clear the L-Bit; identifying an interface by address is also possible when it's set, so setting the L-bit is fit for all situations envisaged and provides a true superset of functionality that L-Bit cleared offers; b) what do you mean with "name, index **or** address". Is that an exclusive OR, or any subset of the three, or can they all three be set? Later text suggests that each Interface Identification Object can carry only one of the three (XOR), but previous text suggests that two such Objects might be required for unique idenficiation. So in the end either one or two can be used to identify an object, but not all three? That's totally fine, but could be made more obvious. I also suggest to ditch the L-Bit and operate in a mode as if the L-Bit was always set. It adds no value. I also contemplate later in the text that L-Bit set is default-on while L-Bit clear is default off already. * Response (chapter 3) The choice of flag names is not very intuitive. Why is IPv4 "F" and IPv6 "S"? I understand that those are the first letters of the words FOUR and SIX in English. But maybe the flags could actually be named "4" and "6". Those are ASCII characters like any other, and have a more direct recognition by humans (e.g. when the flags are displayed in protocol decoders). Chapter 4, authorisation: "not explicitly authorized for the incoming ICMP Extended Echo Request L-bit setting" I don't understand why the L-bit is a major decision point for authorisation checks. It is in principle superfluous anyway as above, and then one is expecting that policy decisions of sorts "this probing address is allowed ask for interfaces based on properties different from the address, but this other node is only allowed to operate on address"? The use case for that escapes me; and also, it can be achieved with "define enabled query types" as per Security Considerations. * Security Considerations "For example, a malicious party can use PROBE to discover interface names." This would be discovery by brute forcing the interface name space? Because the reply doesn't give away the name when the request was via address - right? It would be good to make clear that this discovery has to happen as a hit-and-miss of guessed names rather than getting an enumeration on the silver platter. OTOH, there are many well-known naming conventions for interfaces and it's more like a dictionary attack rather than simple brute-force. Nits: * Chapter 2, Page 4, first bullet of the "ICMP fields" enumeration. The value is TTTT0 (four T's) but you then ask IANA to register things with only TTTx (three T's). The fourth T is superfluous. From nobody Mon Dec 4 13:19:29 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 583271289C3; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:19:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTA2GfNazPfz; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2387F127A90; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:19:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AF369A01A3; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:19:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1512422354; bh=SaXV7rKMFtog14zJYEpinLAb0+3O2nHh67D3bTSv3RY=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=Hf5FfOTII+Ju9VhZ1mAI+PrM8BdOmOaQjL0baPWSaMPm9ypwixxwQJqQm44fpkDEp J0h6nBrT0PUNhA7twf21AFhQZPKaiFJqSq/0K2fya56gCWQitzmCa0VpE30RF41mCF fxS/MV2erOoS6yZwB2DZCJoqnuj4t5q83g0QYYkY= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [50.225.209.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 259E69A0156; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 13:19:13 -0800 (PST) To: Ron Bonica , "gen-art@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <5fabd8f9-9663-4c7f-370b-6095f999b7b2@joelhalpern.com> Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 16:19:12 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 21:19:16 -0000 Thank you Ron. On the E-bit (or P-Bit), is the important goal that it is a virtual interface, that it is pseudowire, or ? It might help there text indicating what a receiver might do differently based on this bit being set or unset. Having said that, Ethernet Pseudowire is at least a clearer distinction than just "Ethernet". And as long as the bit has a clear definition, any disagreement about what "should" be identified is clealry NOT a show stopper. Yours, Joel On 12/4/17 4:13 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: > Hi Joel, > > Thanks for the review. Responses inline...... > > Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joel Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:45 PM >> To: gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org >> Subject: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> >> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >> Review result: Almost Ready >> >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review >> Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for >> the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your document shepherd or AD >> before posting a new version of the draft. >> >> For more information, please see the FAQ at >> >> > 3A__trac.ietf.org_trac_gen_wiki_GenArtfaq&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr >> 6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=hKAAxSQXBFWxkxtwUUKzdYcvZ22_3zrp0OZhHK >> V2AH4&s=X_Kje37D5HB_DdICxGgn_TkAqoXymCuJdJetUjwYPy4&e=>. >> >> Document: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >> Review Date: 2017-11-30 >> IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-13 >> IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >> >> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a Proposed >> Standard RFC. >> >> Major issues: >> I can not determine from the text why two identification objects are >> sometimes allowed, or how they are to be used. The texts seems to >> indicate >> that they can be somehow combined to identify a single probed interface. >> But I can not see how. > > [RB ] > Good catch. > > At one time I thought that this was necessary because IPv6 link-local addresses are not necessarily unique to the node. So, you might need to probe by IP address and something else (e.g., ifName). However, ifName is unique to the node. So, one instance of the interface identification object is enough. > > I will remove that sentence. > > >> >> Minor issues: >> In section 2.1 in describing the usage when the probed interface is >> identified by name or ifindex, the text refers to MIBII, RFC 2863. I would >> expect to see it refer instead (or at least preferentially) to RFC 7223, >> the YANG model for the Interface stack. > > [RB ] > Fair enough. I will make that change in the next version. > >> >> The E bit in the Extended ICMP Echo reply seems a bit odd. Shall we try to >> encode all the possible interface types in this field? Shall we try to >> distinguish Ethernet directly over fiber from Ethernet over ...? What >> about an emulated Ethernet interface (pseudowire, etc.) I do not >> understand why this is here, and fear it is ambiguous. > [RB ] > Looking back, I described that badly. This bit is set if the interface is a pseudowire endpoint and it is running Ethernet. > > Maybe I should call it the P-bit for Pseudowire endpoint. We don't need to specify what type of pseudowire it is. > > What do you think? > >> >> Nits/editorial comments: >> I find the description of the node containing the proxy interface as being >> "the probed node" as being somewhat odd, as it is not the node containing >> the probed interface. I would have expected it to be called "the proxy >> node"? > [RB ] > > Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. > >> >> Very nitpicky: In section 4, the step reading "If the Code Field is equal >> to No Error (0) and the L-bit is clear, set the A-Bit." probably ought to >> say "otherwise, clear the A-bit." >> > [RB ] > Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. > > From nobody Mon Dec 4 14:05:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 05B31128BC8; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:05:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rHUMTGy7J_HI; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:05:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1712040318 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 22:48:42 -0000 Sm9lbCwNCg0KVGhlIGltcG9ydGFudCBwaWVjZSBvZiBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBpcyB0aGF0IHRoaXMg aXMgYSBwc2V1ZG93aXJlIGVuZHBvaW50LiBUaGVzZSBkYXlzLCBtb3N0IHBzZXVkb3dpcmUgZW5k cG9pbnRzIHNlZW0gdG8gYmUgRXRoZXJuZXQuIEJ1dCBzb21lIGFyZW4ndC4gVGhlcmUgYXJlIHN0 aWxsIHNvbWUgbGVnYWN5IGxheWVyIDIgcHNldWRvd2lyZXMgaGFuZ2luZyBhcm91bmQuDQoNClNv LCBzaW5jZSB3ZSBjYW4ndCBlbnVtZXJhdGUgZXZlcnkgdHlwZSBvZiBwc2V1ZG93aXJlIGVuZHBv aW50LCB3ZSBtaWdodCBhcyB3ZWxsIGp1c3QgY2FsbCBpdCBhIHBzZXVkb3dpcmUgZW5kcG9pbnQg YW5kIHByb3ZpZGUgbm8gZnVydGhlciBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBhYm91dCB0aGUgdHlwZS4NCg0KICAg 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with ESMTP id 5701F128D44; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:55:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OjH4Y6Wg1aHl; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 43763128D0F; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:55:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2CA0524D4A1; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:55:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1512428100; bh=5f0VdVA3vF/u0mWhpjTXXmLBi1rdj8OQVYvT1p8fvNY=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=O0dHx24qNQ1L1P74yTl1GfI8uCI9vU8hetYKuYm2kxiOaIk7KqcWngp2Ycl+7p7g6 gEGHfG4/2GOwNoNU/OOhLBK3ycEr5gr0Wx53RTPKrncv1ENG8oPkmXp/VfitWWw/69 0w4y6Lcewt0QpwrWdqATrJ7iOAqLVBeW46pFwt6o= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [50.225.209.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 4AFEC240A33; Mon, 4 Dec 2017 14:54:59 -0800 (PST) To: Ron Bonica , "gen-art@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> <5fabd8f9-9663-4c7f-370b-6095f999b7b2@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:54:58 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 Dec 2017 22:55:02 -0000 Good enough. Joel On 12/4/17 5:48 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: > Joel, > > The important piece of information is that this is a pseudowire endpoint. These days, most pseudowire endpoints seem to be Ethernet. But some aren't. There are still some legacy layer 2 pseudowires hanging around. > > So, since we can't enumerate every type of pseudowire endpoint, we might as well just call it a pseudowire endpoint and provide no further information about the type. > > Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >> Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 4:19 PM >> To: Ron Bonica ; gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> >> Thank you Ron. >> >> On the E-bit (or P-Bit), is the important goal that it is a virtual interface, that it >> is pseudowire, or ? It might help there text indicating what a receiver might >> do differently based on this bit being set or unset. >> Having said that, Ethernet Pseudowire is at least a clearer distinction than just >> "Ethernet". And as long as the bit has a clear definition, any disagreement >> about what "should" be identified is clealry NOT a show stopper. >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 12/4/17 4:13 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: >>> Hi Joel, >>> >>> Thanks for the review. Responses inline...... >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joel Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:45 PM >>>> To: gen-art@ietf.org >>>> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; >>>> ietf@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>> >>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>> Review result: Almost Ready >>>> >>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by >>>> the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your >>>> document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >>>> >>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>>> >>>> >>> >> 3A__trac.ietf.org_trac_gen_wiki_GenArtfaq&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr >>>> 6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >>>> >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=hKAAxSQXBFWxkxtwUUKzdYcvZ22_3zrp0OZhHK >>>> V2AH4&s=X_Kje37D5HB_DdICxGgn_TkAqoXymCuJdJetUjwYPy4&e=>. >>>> >>>> Document: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>> Review Date: 2017-11-30 >>>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-13 >>>> IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >>>> >>>> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a Proposed >>>> Standard RFC. >>>> >>>> Major issues: >>>> I can not determine from the text why two identification objects are >>>> sometimes allowed, or how they are to be used. The texts seems >>>> to indicate >>>> that they can be somehow combined to identify a single probed >> interface. >>>> But I can not see how. >>> >>> [RB ] >>> Good catch. >>> >>> At one time I thought that this was necessary because IPv6 link-local >> addresses are not necessarily unique to the node. So, you might need to >> probe by IP address and something else (e.g., ifName). However, ifName is >> unique to the node. So, one instance of the interface identification object is >> enough. >>> >>> I will remove that sentence. >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Minor issues: >>>> In section 2.1 in describing the usage when the probed interface is >>>> identified by name or ifindex, the text refers to MIBII, RFC 2863. I >> would >>>> expect to see it refer instead (or at least preferentially) to RFC 7223, >>>> the YANG model for the Interface stack. >>> >>> [RB ] >>> Fair enough. I will make that change in the next version. >>> >>>> >>>> The E bit in the Extended ICMP Echo reply seems a bit odd. Shall we try >> to >>>> encode all the possible interface types in this field? Shall we try to >>>> distinguish Ethernet directly over fiber from Ethernet over ...? What >>>> about an emulated Ethernet interface (pseudowire, etc.) I do not >>>> understand why this is here, and fear it is ambiguous. >>> [RB ] >>> Looking back, I described that badly. This bit is set if the interface is a >> pseudowire endpoint and it is running Ethernet. >>> >>> Maybe I should call it the P-bit for Pseudowire endpoint. We don't need to >> specify what type of pseudowire it is. >>> >>> What do you think? >>> >>>> >>>> Nits/editorial comments: >>>> I find the description of the node containing the proxy interface as >> being >>>> "the probed node" as being somewhat odd, as it is not the node >> containing >>>> the probed interface. I would have expected it to be called "the proxy >>>> node"? >>> [RB ] >>> >>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>> >>>> >>>> Very nitpicky: In section 4, the step reading "If the Code Field is equal >>>> to No Error (0) and the L-bit is clear, set the A-Bit." probably ought to >>>> say "otherwise, clear the A-bit." >>>> >>> [RB ] >>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>> >>> From nobody Tue Dec 5 10:03:19 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E90AD127871; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:03:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Kgnjq1BtbgZ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:03:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with 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bWVhbiBhbnkgb2YgdGhlbT8gT3IganVzdCA4MDIuMz8NCj4gDQpbUkIgXSANCkpvZWwgSGFscGVy biByYWlzZWQgdGhlIHNhbWUgaXNzdWUgaW4gaGlzIHJldmlldy4gV2Ugd2lsbCByZW5hbWUgdGhp cyBiaXQgdG8gaW5kaWNhdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBpcyBhIFBzZXVkb3dpcmUgZW5kcG9pbnQsIHdpdGhv dXQgbWVudGlvbmluZyB3aGF0IGtpbmQgb2YgUFcgZW5kcG9pbnQgaXQgaXMuDQoNCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgUm9uDQoNCg0K From nobody Tue Dec 5 10:35:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F65B129440 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:35:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JALIyB0iN-u2 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBEA912708C for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:35:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBF86AA00AA for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:35:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1512498950; bh=78soEKegw38qUUpWO21T41W388uaiI3V33LgOZ7wcag=; h=From:Subject:To:References:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=H6N2gz3ABluqxfIZCcmJSlCK6xN9vAZUvoboZv054POIPJOT14R5Xq5R2wJqLVU/E /RYxE0F7fS0MhU3Zh75mRqjPWNsM+wr8RcC049jqxHSF1mk6GzEe+fji9d1g4m9Q7O nIICuzFfDXnujId5P14JwEXlQoo4KW63u9iswLeA= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [50.225.209.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 5F820AA00C0 for ; Tue, 5 Dec 2017 10:35:50 -0800 (PST) From: Joel Halpern To: Internet Area References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> <5fabd8f9-9663-4c7f-370b-6095f999b7b2@joelhalpern.com> <0c4b98c8-7f1a-ce25-2619-2db279d58d62@joelhalpern.com> Message-ID: <01d6a506-bc38-ee6c-d938-176512d9a8cd@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 5 Dec 2017 13:35:48 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 Dec 2017 18:35:52 -0000 I followed up with Ron on this a bit off-list to try to understand the goal of the E (or P) bit. (My understanding was clealry not a show stopper for advancing the draft.) After some explanation, I asked the following question (Ron suggested I send it to the list.) It seems you are trying to provide clarity for the neither F nor S case? If one had a pure bridge, with IP control, that supported this probe mechanism, couldn't you get the same "neither F nor S" answer? Or an ATM switch, or ...? Yours, Joel O From nobody Wed Dec 6 02:45:04 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D641212969E; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:45:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.951 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.951 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DATE_IN_PAST_12_24=1.049, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5oFFWBHmGVQJ; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:45:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31BD11279E5; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 02:45:00 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id j4so2028432pgp.1; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 02:45:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=v7RNXADvPuPt8t1HxAJZbOgVFQYC6L2ecpZmFgXQ5Ms=; b=FZb+bwWVlhEiJejPGfBF2eyth57NG+hFhwxeWeXgbuuJxzs688jjfdWi3o9aTclP79 fYfIiDmNnL3RFTf5OlmPxumOH6m+n6v3wjIzvyGTLFLuW/jztK7n4HGlbTwBWMA7x+sH YwFjzmnxZLIf38rXKGp2mDSa4WgSFxTawoBES2dIinL/ducK7pPIQYUsrb6bdSqo+0OO bMNSmimSeLA0e59aMUVxTm6ysvfesEU3hCRZka/LFQFxwYO50MmAotRcwPX50H8lv05w eOZetVWjlkIM+9L/inVebBCY0oE1Ve5XrI92KV3TzBr970VVV45UC7ATOZ6VWVTC2UhM SxNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=v7RNXADvPuPt8t1HxAJZbOgVFQYC6L2ecpZmFgXQ5Ms=; b=BD78jiE+rlQ0yJschLRJJO0VoQI3mWhZcl6n2agKbXU6pYIRUnWQtjWkh5kqnK7mdf UPTLYvnw00vjjVNw59q/zvaSdMkKpsU9btkeQaCnwzNMPrQdYZ8C9GNe548wEtQKnp1X B39M5UKfvzCJb8RWriGRkxo1I3Z13e3XBm0S0Q1ltpLhKoTYCn38sV5hB6XrVSRvshUT pHd9Cnsx/2Cwo5VsRgRT7no7rleDTGUSme1pKLTmAB98pWan5w9Ld+pNqR08P7CVj8Ko PXoiKgEK2bvA45XmMcO9QQyEiiMSvwdQTsM776/Kyi7idU0EszyPKwBpZ6QAR9jXtym1 tlLg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mI7AOuviWQ1x5INsqzK5IOJXTJsN3PhPSbD6JXds92XCvhP5Ljg IvleX33lXekmE05EcaWSeAVlh87n X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZab94n+msYFhYwEdoF5GzmpYi7cur1O8u6h2VTsCSk0hgF0uEeOrwu0QX6/V9GAknHGclFOg== X-Received: by 10.98.150.221 with SMTP id s90mr2303462pfk.151.1512557099424; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 02:44:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from [172.19.249.8] ([104.153.224.169]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t202sm3489857pgb.75.2017.12.06.02.44.50 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Dec 2017 02:44:58 -0800 (PST) To: Ron Bonica , "secdir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" References: <151225050650.7531.17448190244687268847@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Yaron Sheffer Message-ID: <925c8acc-b3c4-fed5-6cc4-055b945975b8@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 00:40:41 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:45:02 -0000 Hi Ron, Thanks for putting me right about the expected use case. Please consider including these paragraphs more or less as-is in the security considerations. While informal, they give the reader a good idea how to use this facility securely. Regards, Yaron On 05/12/17 20:03, Ron Bonica wrote: > Hello Yaron, > > Thanks for the thoughtful review. Responses inline...... > > Ron > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Yaron Sheffer [mailto:yaronf.ietf@gmail.com] >> Sent: Saturday, December 2, 2017 4:35 PM >> To: secdir@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org >> Subject: Secdir telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> >> Reviewer: Yaron Sheffer >> Review result: Has Issues >> >> Summary >> >> The Security Considerations section is extensive, given that this is not a major >> protocol. However I think a few additional security risks should be >> mentioned, see below. In addition, there are several points where this >> (arguably uneducated) reader was confused, and which could benefit from >> additional clarity. >> >> Details (security-related) >> >> * The probed interface can be identified by an IEEE 802 address (presumably, >> a MAC address). This is an important detail from a security point of view. >> Normally you don't expect a remote node to be able to access machines by >> MAC address, and many firewall deployments enforce access control solely >> at the IP level. * Similarly, in an IPv4 setting, the proxy can be identified by a >> routable address, and used to probe a non-routable (RFC 1918) address. * >> "The incoming ICMP Extend Echo Request carries a source address that is not >> explicitly authorized for the incoming ICMP Extended Echo Request L-bit >> setting" - this implies a per-node whitelist listing all IP addresses that are >> allowed to probe it. I don't think we mean seriously to list all the addresses >> that can ping a given node, so this smells like security theater - sorry. >> > [RB ] > I agree with all of the points that you raise above, except for the part about white listing. This isn't security theater. It's real. > > For the most part, hosts will stick with the default PROBE configuration. That is, they won't honor an ICMP Extended Echo Request of any type from any source. > > A good number of network operators will enable PROBE on their routers, but for the reasons that you point out above, they won't want their routers being probed from untrusted subnetworks. They will probably restrict probe access to a few trusted subnets that are within their administrative domain (e.g., the NOC, network controllers). > > I doubt if anyone will expose their routers to PROBING from all points on the Internet. > >> Other Details >> >> * Abstract: I think the word "alternatively" should really be "instead" (also in >> the Introduction). > [RB ] > I can fix that in the next version > > * "The proxy interface resides on a probed node" - this >> contradicts the previous paragraph that states that either the proxy is on the >> same node, or it has direct connectivity to it (and is presumably on a different >> node). > [RB ] > Joel Halpern raised the same point in his review. In the next version, the probed node will be called the proxy node. > > * "The probed interface can reside on the probed node or it can be >> directly connected to the probed node." I'm confused. This contradicts the >> first paragraph of the Intro: "The probing interface resides on a probing node >> while the probed interface resides on a probed node." > [RB ] > Same fix as above > > * > "encapsulated in an >> IP header" - shouldn't that be "in an IP packet" (at least for IPv4)? > [RB ] > I will check RFC 792 and use whatever words they used > * >> "Ethernet is running on the probed interface" - is this well-defined? There >> are numerous 802.* protocols. Do we mean any of them? Or just 802.3? >> > [RB ] > Joel Halpern raised the same issue in his review. We will rename this bit to indicate that it is a Pseudowire endpoint, without mentioning what kind of PW endpoint it is. > > Ron > > From nobody Wed Dec 6 06:41:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 304F9124BAC; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 03:24:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wYeIr7aJyn2c; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 03:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wm0-x235.google.com (mail-wm0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c09::235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2EEEC124205; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 03:24:10 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wm0-x235.google.com with SMTP id g75so6661495wme.0; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 03:24:10 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=pOqAWRdGA+COCD0b7SBN1/GHgMcorzpe5SKM/eL6XjY=; b=WUvye78DUwkVqvHJK17pvg6Sd+ZGkLzSQ+HKVwKXzQcIavkV8qiDLWTK/GUssLlmhL jQK31aXIeYmDBlxo2CmPlTcJL0izOdCkB6XwVMMFDip8JhXC9QPIVmdVhb0qUiRR605E 1wXoUQRdai4tGPZE28PvM1Aa8QHm5f54t1ZUyJSPzwj+W+mefG4umZJssNIE0cn7Ka7Y yBHBlXR2oXD5d0w2wsA+CsJcMEkkyi15gXuzpF8l/guOiXJXrTEQsVg51TCJ+KcXdtLr FpoG5Jkd1iJWn+EdTv0lYTj9kJohywVcc3CE0u4GCf+yHsxe9NbModKfSGmwxksL51Xt ilCQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=pOqAWRdGA+COCD0b7SBN1/GHgMcorzpe5SKM/eL6XjY=; b=KvphGPxxq8jDklNh03EXYnQJAVdnbgDs+jy0z9MdUD28VhefU7Gyq3poFrIyfQ3OC1 qNXSyU27++IqBARcTRqQEXCNURLEV3cm4fDSF/Xtptmjt/Mml9Xq0PVmnjyHBIYUiqtQ lMjgGO7uc9cLvv7mQRK8pGRcGu/o6ywLI78piEW4Uor6cJ6qwPLkf6TT2Af5kGmfMkNc 7GL6rpxSrK954jHTWV1eaGha2aQnLV8TO6YPtL9qoSbkN76+m4yI1ccg3nOudH+3WAMv d/wiMnTqYsnMohQ/aQVqWkEBtoJlHyBMLGJa4/ViUEjIFRMqIJ4LJTRiwhlhnOcUlCoA +Ebg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIVJEC52GovkxSeEXeLEZKoVpoFyvPoh1wRIxkWTXQvy3M+lAMN wfY/gZ+1SVWaupqhxDG4qU69d7NG X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZHxzN0g93UzrSeyJXAX0b8i1D6BXO/1kk8uPExvcQZkNMl7Xmf9gIX1RbClLm+cY0ClZeuiA== X-Received: by 10.28.178.135 with SMTP id b129mr7742583wmf.103.1512559448207; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 03:24:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id l31sm3433441wrc.50.2017.12.06.03.24.06 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Dec 2017 03:24:07 -0800 (PST) To: Ron Bonica , "Joel M. Halpern" , "gen-art@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "pals-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org, The IESG References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> <5fabd8f9-9663-4c7f-370b-6095f999b7b2@joelhalpern.com> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:24:06 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 06:41:17 -0800 Subject: Re: [Int-area] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 11:24:13 -0000 I cannot quite work out from the document how this works, but if we are going to PING non-IP interfaces I think the groups that work on those need some time to reflect on the implications. There are certainly a number of non-IP interfaces that may have Ethernet addresses. However, I am not sure from a quick look at the text how you would address any interface running a PW other than Ethernet. Bottom line, I think this needs to either preclude non-IP interfaces, or the groups that work with non-IP interfaces need to think through the implications, and possibly propose new identifier types. - Stewart On 04/12/2017 22:48, Ron Bonica wrote: > Joel, > > The important piece of information is that this is a pseudowire endpoint. These days, most pseudowire endpoints seem to be Ethernet. But some aren't. There are still some legacy layer 2 pseudowires hanging around. > > So, since we can't enumerate every type of pseudowire endpoint, we might as well just call it a pseudowire endpoint and provide no further information about the type. > > Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >> Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 4:19 PM >> To: Ron Bonica ; gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> >> Thank you Ron. >> >> On the E-bit (or P-Bit), is the important goal that it is a virtual interface, that it >> is pseudowire, or ? It might help there text indicating what a receiver might >> do differently based on this bit being set or unset. >> Having said that, Ethernet Pseudowire is at least a clearer distinction than just >> "Ethernet". And as long as the bit has a clear definition, any disagreement >> about what "should" be identified is clealry NOT a show stopper. >> >> Yours, >> Joel >> >> On 12/4/17 4:13 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: >>> Hi Joel, >>> >>> Thanks for the review. Responses inline...... >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joel Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:45 PM >>>> To: gen-art@ietf.org >>>> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; >>>> ietf@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>> >>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>> Review result: Almost Ready >>>> >>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by >>>> the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your >>>> document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >>>> >>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>>> >>>> >>> >> 3A__trac.ietf.org_trac_gen_wiki_GenArtfaq&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr >>>> 6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >>>> >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=hKAAxSQXBFWxkxtwUUKzdYcvZ22_3zrp0OZhHK >>>> V2AH4&s=X_Kje37D5HB_DdICxGgn_TkAqoXymCuJdJetUjwYPy4&e=>. >>>> >>>> Document: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>> Review Date: 2017-11-30 >>>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-13 >>>> IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >>>> >>>> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a Proposed >>>> Standard RFC. >>>> >>>> Major issues: >>>> I can not determine from the text why two identification objects are >>>> sometimes allowed, or how they are to be used. The texts seems >>>> to indicate >>>> that they can be somehow combined to identify a single probed >> interface. >>>> But I can not see how. >>> [RB ] >>> Good catch. >>> >>> At one time I thought that this was necessary because IPv6 link-local >> addresses are not necessarily unique to the node. So, you might need to >> probe by IP address and something else (e.g., ifName). However, ifName is >> unique to the node. So, one instance of the interface identification object is >> enough. >>> I will remove that sentence. >>> >>> >>>> Minor issues: >>>> In section 2.1 in describing the usage when the probed interface is >>>> identified by name or ifindex, the text refers to MIBII, RFC 2863. I >> would >>>> expect to see it refer instead (or at least preferentially) to RFC 7223, >>>> the YANG model for the Interface stack. >>> [RB ] >>> Fair enough. I will make that change in the next version. >>> >>>> The E bit in the Extended ICMP Echo reply seems a bit odd. Shall we try >> to >>>> encode all the possible interface types in this field? Shall we try to >>>> distinguish Ethernet directly over fiber from Ethernet over ...? What >>>> about an emulated Ethernet interface (pseudowire, etc.) I do not >>>> understand why this is here, and fear it is ambiguous. >>> [RB ] >>> Looking back, I described that badly. This bit is set if the interface is a >> pseudowire endpoint and it is running Ethernet. >>> Maybe I should call it the P-bit for Pseudowire endpoint. We don't need to >> specify what type of pseudowire it is. >>> What do you think? >>> >>>> Nits/editorial comments: >>>> I find the description of the node containing the proxy interface as >> being >>>> "the probed node" as being somewhat odd, as it is not the node >> containing >>>> the probed interface. I would have expected it to be called "the proxy >>>> node"? >>> [RB ] >>> >>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>> >>>> Very nitpicky: In section 4, the step reading "If the Code Field is equal >>>> to No Error (0) and the L-bit is clear, set the A-Bit." probably ought to >>>> say "otherwise, clear the A-bit." >>>> >>> [RB ] >>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>> >>> > _______________________________________________ > Gen-art mailing list > Gen-art@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/gen-art From nobody Wed Dec 6 08:15:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0173A126C19; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:13:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ABO0rZhrs6oA; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C2F1C124F57; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:13:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108163.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vB6GAK49015517; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:13:48 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=Tb1OeBbMDEkicU3AGYNBwwJUo62nRV/wWLXa0IeCYp0=; b=xlRfapQ1T1FyP6Mxu6ZLjoGz9/tdNjdwMIEmtAcWfJhJ0lr41pcnr6kPWNEIQrYCyh+y cX+XK8aCtcWUTugG4TeQi/co6QSNcL1XeIT+2R0I1pIj3XBLYuqmp3R6fm+hmM0oVdU1 vwdXp6pIcOpgFIwYgGrnha60GQD8uj3eq/eyBeH61/9wiEwjkluf+4z4qMVkXLQUhzjf WR4u+z8/cAOvF87AwR3Q5RCJ9dOSKwfyaII4Jhha7akF9YjHmkuBA7/pXF9qU9+gMQ4C osz15XTLnlRa7YXUC2BxNsDDUw+F4UCYbXybPx/n8bKf21TQP2YG1I42WX6c4ul2rcha 9w== Received: from nam03-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2nam03lp0047.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.47]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2epjpegaej-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 06 Dec 2017 08:13:48 -0800 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) by BLUPR0501MB2049.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.19) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.302.2; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:13:45 +0000 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) with mapi id 15.20.0302.007; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:13:45 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Stewart Bryant , "Joel M. Halpern" , "gen-art@ietf.org" CC: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "pals-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , "l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG Thread-Topic: [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 Thread-Index: AQHTaiRuRafa/tTkJkyxmsfBUNAviKMzrbSwgAAJEgCAABf5QIACZmwAgABQBZA= Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 16:13:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> <5fabd8f9-9663-4c7f-370b-6095f999b7b2@joelhalpern.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR0501MB2049; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 806a62dc-f77d-4967-64c0-08d53cc45376 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 06 Dec 2017 16:13:45.3692 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2049 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-06_07:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 impostorscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1709140000 definitions=main-1712060234 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 08:15:33 -0800 Subject: Re: [Int-area] [Gen-art] Genart telechat 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.701 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.701 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LD6CS500jzzR; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mailb2.tigertech.net (mailb2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5CD44124F57; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FDDA1C06FE; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:16:44 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1512577004; bh=hC+/ksq9XwvMkbDsO3oFCvmXDcYVn3KZBDlTHCqqf4Q=; h=Subject:To:Cc:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=oegMQ6/MxNRDWVTe5/vJ+VPr1nqD8aQ++FaletkIFTvQ5UkFsZ5FnyfmEDHKAly7n 8ojQ/B5uz1UGQ0ZsRPD807i3oXn84S2GN92VyFbrNuPa4F1/tCb150CmXfDVQWinuv U4GDN9v0akoG3W1GqkLYJr5BZBHQ53rgKE57/PSg= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at b2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [50.225.209.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailb2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4B931C00A0; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 08:16:41 -0800 (PST) To: Ron Bonica , Stewart Bryant , "gen-art@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "pals-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , "l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> <5fabd8f9-9663-4c7f-370b-6095f999b7b2@joelhalpern.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 11:16:40 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 08:20:42 -0800 Subject: Re: [Int-area] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 16:16:47 -0000 That would be fa reasoanble way to address my genart review question. Yours, Joel On 12/6/17 11:13 AM, Ron Bonica wrote: > Stewart, > > Having thought about it for a while, you may be right. PROBE was meant to be an IP tool. Pseudo-wire endpoints were an afterthought, and not a very good afterthought at that. > > Let's remove the E-bit (aka P-bit) and limit Probe to querying the status of IP interfaces. > > Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:24 AM >> To: Ron Bonica ; Joel M. Halpern >> ; gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; >> pals-chairs@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org; The >> IESG >> Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> >> I cannot quite work out from the document how this works, but if we are >> going to PING non-IP interfaces I think the groups that work on those need >> some time to reflect on the implications. >> >> There are certainly a number of non-IP interfaces that may have Ethernet >> addresses. >> >> However, I am not sure from a quick look at the text how you would address >> any interface running a PW other than Ethernet. >> >> Bottom line, I think this needs to either preclude non-IP interfaces, or the >> groups that work with non-IP interfaces need to think through the >> implications, and possibly propose new identifier types. >> >> - Stewart >> >> >> On 04/12/2017 22:48, Ron Bonica wrote: >>> Joel, >>> >>> The important piece of information is that this is a pseudowire endpoint. >> These days, most pseudowire endpoints seem to be Ethernet. But some >> aren't. There are still some legacy layer 2 pseudowires hanging around. >>> >>> So, since we can't enumerate every type of pseudowire endpoint, we >> might as well just call it a pseudowire endpoint and provide no further >> information about the type. >>> >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 4:19 PM >>>> To: Ron Bonica ; gen-art@ietf.org >>>> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; >>>> ietf@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>> >>>> Thank you Ron. >>>> >>>> On the E-bit (or P-Bit), is the important goal that it is a virtual >>>> interface, that it is pseudowire, or ? It might help there text >>>> indicating what a receiver might do differently based on this bit being set >> or unset. >>>> Having said that, Ethernet Pseudowire is at least a clearer >>>> distinction than just "Ethernet". And as long as the bit has a clear >>>> definition, any disagreement about what "should" be identified is clealry >> NOT a show stopper. >>>> >>>> Yours, >>>> Joel >>>> >>>> On 12/4/17 4:13 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: >>>>> Hi Joel, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the review. Responses inline...... >>>>> >>>>> Ron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Joel Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:45 PM >>>>>> To: gen-art@ietf.org >>>>>> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; >>>>>> ietf@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>>>> >>>>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>>>> Review result: Almost Ready >>>>>> >>>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >>>>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >> by >>>>>> the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your >>>>>> document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >>>>>> >>>>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >> 3A__trac.ietf.org_trac_gen_wiki_GenArtfaq&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr >>>>>> 6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >>>>>> >>>> >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=hKAAxSQXBFWxkxtwUUKzdYcvZ22_3zrp0OZhHK >>>>>> V2AH4&s=X_Kje37D5HB_DdICxGgn_TkAqoXymCuJdJetUjwYPy4&e=>. >>>>>> >>>>>> Document: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>>>> Review Date: 2017-11-30 >>>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-13 >>>>>> IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a >>>>>> Proposed Standard RFC. >>>>>> >>>>>> Major issues: >>>>>> I can not determine from the text why two identification objects are >>>>>> sometimes allowed, or how they are to be used. The texts >>>>>> seems to indicate >>>>>> that they can be somehow combined to identify a single probed >>>> interface. >>>>>> But I can not see how. >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Good catch. >>>>> >>>>> At one time I thought that this was necessary because IPv6 >>>>> link-local >>>> addresses are not necessarily unique to the node. So, you might need >>>> to probe by IP address and something else (e.g., ifName). However, >>>> ifName is unique to the node. So, one instance of the interface >>>> identification object is enough. >>>>> I will remove that sentence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Minor issues: >>>>>> In section 2.1 in describing the usage when the probed interface is >>>>>> identified by name or ifindex, the text refers to MIBII, RFC >>>>>> 2863. I >>>> would >>>>>> expect to see it refer instead (or at least preferentially) to RFC 7223, >>>>>> the YANG model for the Interface stack. >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Fair enough. I will make that change in the next version. >>>>> >>>>>> The E bit in the Extended ICMP Echo reply seems a bit odd. >>>>>> Shall we try >>>> to >>>>>> encode all the possible interface types in this field? Shall we try to >>>>>> distinguish Ethernet directly over fiber from Ethernet over ...? What >>>>>> about an emulated Ethernet interface (pseudowire, etc.) I do not >>>>>> understand why this is here, and fear it is ambiguous. >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Looking back, I described that badly. This bit is set if the >>>>> interface is a >>>> pseudowire endpoint and it is running Ethernet. >>>>> Maybe I should call it the P-bit for Pseudowire endpoint. We don't >>>>> need to >>>> specify what type of pseudowire it is. >>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>>> Nits/editorial comments: >>>>>> I find the description of the node containing the proxy >>>>>> interface as >>>> being >>>>>> "the probed node" as being somewhat odd, as it is not the >>>>>> node >>>> containing >>>>>> the probed interface. I would have expected it to be called "the >> proxy >>>>>> node"? >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> >>>>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>>>> >>>>>> Very nitpicky: In section 4, the step reading "If the Code Field is >> equal >>>>>> to No Error (0) and the L-bit is clear, set the A-Bit." probably ought to >>>>>> say "otherwise, clear the A-bit." >>>>>> >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gen-art mailing list >>> Gen-art@ietf.org >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- >> 3A__www.ietf.org_mail >>> man_listinfo_gen-2Dart&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> ndb3voDT >>> XcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=3aYviNNhuXQukU >>> cgg_np7tq6-CJZDv9M_hHVW_ulyzo&s=7TxRC3k3Vsozba6OX8GmaFv_c- >> 9INm2pcVkjqx >>> sPpr0&e= > From nobody Wed Dec 6 10:51:47 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63B1D1275FD; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 09:18:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id B0bXprred0OX; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 09:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-wr0-x22a.google.com (mail-wr0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DE7A1275F4; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 09:18:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-wr0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id z34so4677981wrz.10; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 09:18:56 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:content-language; bh=a09ofW4gdwYjGg0mWJPX2PwvyNqM1hJNTLZwMs63+80=; b=lCtjCq3Y6RlyPvip0srEYYJGJ2h8O/YzuZVjKHrUFhW2/jpAz1TNnW2JCI9SwynO+j c6nloMN6hbzMLJ3FdH8QUMup/TUUrlvD+t1XCCoF3Waa4POpxBqbcWkMv4iJ9ar84vuA MVuH/CzPvr4aBzy4wAXVkIB9NDXxqXmCXo5JLKNEqhF/pj4Hm240V49GOTD13Hi2bZfk M/zpnP8J7cscAPiCIhUnJ1W4b4qPV0fSEG2UEQHmUs35I2hjywW+TFB1IRmr99ewCsHV XloOJ1oFAnIGqXoZLFzfpDR2VqSa64RaHWZCvU5ghZ8BKOFcLV7KvCVFSyOjM3isIyt2 eOsQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding :content-language; bh=a09ofW4gdwYjGg0mWJPX2PwvyNqM1hJNTLZwMs63+80=; b=AmJML35+cf9giS3cb/QmPq31NuOrMhDUeL6CfGaWmlSpDJJJUoviQO2aulViZ4FUb/ qxeoMlBO2PN74JbvGZ7p7LWo6ofueDL2RdcDwx+IBFCUjveu+4JH5MZx7NJXHRn0NX36 3bHcj1AwzK4+DWsXUZbFsBd4utXoaJH0XZKWb5h9i5r9OYlpPJ2gVyF2F9/VgcgCBtf9 eOidDgeaaTlH5sgTOCamnIMEjYbZ4oKaCSVYIcq+c4/M9zGDkfflhdavOXbKky+uFXLJ Yd8SiLEmP64s7gKoiNLNHI/3Jd+E9O7hdQQ2uyv5SzwcSei+2FnOj/iLrmFXH2GFwvdF fUUA== X-Gm-Message-State: AJaThX5HhV2auN78OP6CLPGqA2apqS83Y7FrTtcQ6yawfcdm3ZLkCm4U 1GZ3r5UXsJXvdN3kSlHnzHC0NsoP X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGs4zMZaJjKaSOPYVs2kgJ8fJKnWBpRLbRcmLp+LyVqwx30hx/KMvszk/zJNcL6vbsGSm7oZpmxQUg== X-Received: by 10.223.154.182 with SMTP id a51mr19384462wrc.48.1512580734632; Wed, 06 Dec 2017 09:18:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.2.126] (host213-123-124-182.in-addr.btopenworld.com. [213.123.124.182]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id a74sm4397777wrc.7.2017.12.06.09.18.53 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 06 Dec 2017 09:18:53 -0800 (PST) To: Ron Bonica , "Joel M. Halpern" , "gen-art@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" , "pals-chairs@tools.ietf.org" , "mpls-chairs@ietf.org" , "l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org" , The IESG References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> <5fabd8f9-9663-4c7f-370b-6095f999b7b2@joelhalpern.com> From: Stewart Bryant Message-ID: Date: Wed, 6 Dec 2017 17:18:52 +0000 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:51:45 -0800 Subject: Re: [Int-area] [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Dec 2017 17:18:59 -0000 Ron, Yes you can always add it in later as an update after thinking through the problem in more detail. - Stewart On 06/12/2017 16:13, Ron Bonica wrote: > Stewart, > > Having thought about it for a while, you may be right. PROBE was meant to be an IP tool. Pseudo-wire endpoints were an afterthought, and not a very good afterthought at that. > > Let's remove the E-bit (aka P-bit) and limit Probe to querying the status of IP interfaces. > > Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 6, 2017 6:24 AM >> To: Ron Bonica ; Joel M. Halpern >> ; gen-art@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@ietf.org; >> pals-chairs@tools.ietf.org; mpls-chairs@ietf.org; l2tpext-chairs@ietf.org; The >> IESG >> Subject: Re: [Gen-art] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> >> I cannot quite work out from the document how this works, but if we are >> going to PING non-IP interfaces I think the groups that work on those need >> some time to reflect on the implications. >> >> There are certainly a number of non-IP interfaces that may have Ethernet >> addresses. >> >> However, I am not sure from a quick look at the text how you would address >> any interface running a PW other than Ethernet. >> >> Bottom line, I think this needs to either preclude non-IP interfaces, or the >> groups that work with non-IP interfaces need to think through the >> implications, and possibly propose new identifier types. >> >> - Stewart >> >> >> On 04/12/2017 22:48, Ron Bonica wrote: >>> Joel, >>> >>> The important piece of information is that this is a pseudowire endpoint. >> These days, most pseudowire endpoints seem to be Ethernet. But some >> aren't. There are still some legacy layer 2 pseudowires hanging around. >>> So, since we can't enumerate every type of pseudowire endpoint, we >> might as well just call it a pseudowire endpoint and provide no further >> information about the type. >>> >>> Ron >>> >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Joel M. Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 4:19 PM >>>> To: Ron Bonica ; gen-art@ietf.org >>>> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; >>>> ietf@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>> >>>> Thank you Ron. >>>> >>>> On the E-bit (or P-Bit), is the important goal that it is a virtual >>>> interface, that it is pseudowire, or ? It might help there text >>>> indicating what a receiver might do differently based on this bit being set >> or unset. >>>> Having said that, Ethernet Pseudowire is at least a clearer >>>> distinction than just "Ethernet". And as long as the bit has a clear >>>> definition, any disagreement about what "should" be identified is clealry >> NOT a show stopper. >>>> Yours, >>>> Joel >>>> >>>> On 12/4/17 4:13 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: >>>>> Hi Joel, >>>>> >>>>> Thanks for the review. Responses inline...... >>>>> >>>>> Ron >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Joel Halpern [mailto:jmh@joelhalpern.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2017 4:45 PM >>>>>> To: gen-art@ietf.org >>>>>> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; >>>>>> ietf@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>>>> >>>>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>>>> Review result: Almost Ready >>>>>> >>>>>> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >>>>>> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed >> by >>>>>> the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your >>>>>> document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >>>>>> >>>>>> For more information, please see the FAQ at >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >> 3A__trac.ietf.org_trac_gen_wiki_GenArtfaq&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr >>>>>> 6Scbfh0UjBXeMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >>>>>> >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=hKAAxSQXBFWxkxtwUUKzdYcvZ22_3zrp0OZhHK >>>>>> V2AH4&s=X_Kje37D5HB_DdICxGgn_TkAqoXymCuJdJetUjwYPy4&e=>. >>>>>> >>>>>> Document: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >>>>>> Reviewer: Joel Halpern >>>>>> Review Date: 2017-11-30 >>>>>> IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-13 >>>>>> IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >>>>>> >>>>>> Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a >>>>>> Proposed Standard RFC. >>>>>> >>>>>> Major issues: >>>>>> I can not determine from the text why two identification objects are >>>>>> sometimes allowed, or how they are to be used. The texts >>>>>> seems to indicate >>>>>> that they can be somehow combined to identify a single probed >>>> interface. >>>>>> But I can not see how. >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Good catch. >>>>> >>>>> At one time I thought that this was necessary because IPv6 >>>>> link-local >>>> addresses are not necessarily unique to the node. So, you might need >>>> to probe by IP address and something else (e.g., ifName). However, >>>> ifName is unique to the node. So, one instance of the interface >>>> identification object is enough. >>>>> I will remove that sentence. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> Minor issues: >>>>>> In section 2.1 in describing the usage when the probed interface is >>>>>> identified by name or ifindex, the text refers to MIBII, RFC >>>>>> 2863. I >>>> would >>>>>> expect to see it refer instead (or at least preferentially) to RFC 7223, >>>>>> the YANG model for the Interface stack. >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Fair enough. I will make that change in the next version. >>>>> >>>>>> The E bit in the Extended ICMP Echo reply seems a bit odd. >>>>>> Shall we try >>>> to >>>>>> encode all the possible interface types in this field? Shall we try to >>>>>> distinguish Ethernet directly over fiber from Ethernet over ...? What >>>>>> about an emulated Ethernet interface (pseudowire, etc.) I do not >>>>>> understand why this is here, and fear it is ambiguous. >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Looking back, I described that badly. This bit is set if the >>>>> interface is a >>>> pseudowire endpoint and it is running Ethernet. >>>>> Maybe I should call it the P-bit for Pseudowire endpoint. We don't >>>>> need to >>>> specify what type of pseudowire it is. >>>>> What do you think? >>>>> >>>>>> Nits/editorial comments: >>>>>> I find the description of the node containing the proxy >>>>>> interface as >>>> being >>>>>> "the probed node" as being somewhat odd, as it is not the >>>>>> node >>>> containing >>>>>> the probed interface. I would have expected it to be called "the >> proxy >>>>>> node"? >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> >>>>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>>>> >>>>>> Very nitpicky: In section 4, the step reading "If the Code Field is >> equal >>>>>> to No Error (0) and the L-bit is clear, set the A-Bit." probably ought to >>>>>> say "otherwise, clear the A-bit." >>>>>> >>>>> [RB ] >>>>> Fair enough. I can make that change in the next revision. >>>>> >>>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Gen-art mailing list >>> Gen-art@ietf.org >>> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- >> 3A__www.ietf.org_mail >>> man_listinfo_gen-2Dart&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> ndb3voDT >>> XcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=3aYviNNhuXQukU >>> cgg_np7tq6-CJZDv9M_hHVW_ulyzo&s=7TxRC3k3Vsozba6OX8GmaFv_c- >> 9INm2pcVkjqx >>> sPpr0&e= From nobody Wed Dec 6 10:51:52 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE68D124F57; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:10:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YP-z2UqXUL9w; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com [208.84.65.16]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D259F1241F5; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:10:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108156.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vB6I98cN015177; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 10:10:09 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : cc : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=OFXMHFfR13RMI+9kkCx+ij6CgSwTwod9mURYH4VQKYs=; b=19sO3u9/sFJ8QyzBLEzBXKqSSxQv/ZMichOQj8Wbs/XS7jl6NS3KCWIn6zOYYVDTw2Bz 2fbOLRCBg8DBgEMNxG+dAC31Rkkb8iexPGmReou6zVYymfe6GuBRSZSpttPCHYQ4M1sg rNJVg9W56JEm/NhTUU36cteDh9WJ3/f8uROR7nGsGwmYpt7VgFww36ueyebN1qgHXSjO 0PJjBIEzAyyMIJXorFg45DiDDuewMUniBxrhrv0rqiZHtSiorrsz0/DKYrmtJl2oXO5V aNnCXo+m8XvQN8kKgnX5KQp9sk9BiePboViRcu01KOyKspCKSwsYKZ3W+tqooUtoYvFb rw== Received: from nam01-bn3-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-bn3nam01lp0183.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.183]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2epmuc85st-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 06 Dec 2017 10:10:08 -0800 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) by BLUPR0501MB2052.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.22) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.302.2; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 18:10:05 +0000 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) with mapi id 15.20.0302.007; Wed, 6 Dec 2017 18:10:05 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Stewart Bryant , "Joel M. 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<151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:54:23 -0500 Cc: gen-art , draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org, int-area@ietf.org Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <6B745A78-5221-4ADD-83C7-C64F61A8464D@cooperw.in> References: <151207827781.25922.11037452280009787600@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Joel Halpern X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3124) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Genart telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 19:54:28 -0000 Joel, thanks for your review. Ron, thanks for engaging with Joel. I have = entered a No Objection ballot. I gather the change will be reflected in = the next rev. Alissa > On Nov 30, 2017, at 4:44 PM, Joel Halpern wrote: >=20 > Reviewer: Joel Halpern > Review result: Almost Ready >=20 > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed > by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please wait for direction from your > document shepherd or AD before posting a new version of the draft. >=20 > For more information, please see the FAQ at >=20 > . >=20 > Document: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 > Reviewer: Joel Halpern > Review Date: 2017-11-30 > IETF LC End Date: 2017-12-13 > IESG Telechat date: 2017-12-14 >=20 > Summary: This document is almost ready for publication as a Proposed = Standard > RFC. >=20 > Major issues: > I can not determine from the text why two identification objects = are > sometimes allowed, or how they are to be used. The texts seems to = indicate > that they can be somehow combined to identify a single probed = interface.=20 > But I can not see how. >=20 > Minor issues: > In section 2.1 in describing the usage when the probed interface is > identified by name or ifindex, the text refers to MIBII, RFC 2863. = I would > expect to see it refer instead (or at least preferentially) to RFC = 7223, > the YANG model for the Interface stack. >=20 > The E bit in the Extended ICMP Echo reply seems a bit odd. Shall = we try to > encode all the possible interface types in this field? Shall we = try to > distinguish Ethernet directly over fiber from Ethernet over ...? = What > about an emulated Ethernet interface (pseudowire, etc.) I do not > understand why this is here, and fear it is ambiguous. >=20 > Nits/editorial comments: > I find the description of the node containing the proxy interface = as being > "the probed node" as being somewhat odd, as it is not the node = containing > the probed interface. I would have expected it to be called "the = proxy > node"? >=20 > Very nitpicky: In section 4, the step reading "If the Code Field is = equal > to No Error (0) and the L-bit is clear, set the A-Bit." probably = ought to > say "otherwise, clear the A-bit." >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area From nobody Tue Dec 12 12:59:17 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90DA712955F; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:59:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151311235654.14136.17354137197980264900@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 12:59:16 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 20:59:17 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces Authors : Ron Bonica Reji Thomas Jen Linkova Chris Lenart Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-12-12 Abstract: This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to query the status of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed interfaces. Instead, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly connected. This document updates RFC 4884. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 12 13:36:05 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 919FA128BC8; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:36:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=joelhalpern.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JlNtzjtunfe0; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from maila2.tigertech.net (maila2.tigertech.net [208.80.4.152]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C9DB127444; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:36:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 68604240F47; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:36:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=joelhalpern.com; s=1.tigertech; t=1513114561; bh=ZBMmi1qPlPtE6uzhwZ0ChZBsNXh7fGhxaMLafIwoIKI=; h=Subject:To:References:From:Date:In-Reply-To:From; b=qkbEYzEbfU6Y4S860RikOyepsxATBV8QmSq2Y0rmYKxZE2EEbjtKftNu7Dk9PSheW hSPMBqJUtozMD5nzoU3cTH1U4DkxfopQi9swVt5UMnxW/SBgePy9evYOr78hY5oBrv fK/SiMKw43dlKpFa+XPuyTrJ/Mred+n9RQ5odaVo= X-Virus-Scanned: Debian amavisd-new at maila2.tigertech.net Received: from Joels-MacBook-Pro.local (unknown [50.225.209.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by maila2.tigertech.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 07A91B8034B; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:35:59 -0800 (PST) To: Ron Bonica , "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , Stewart Bryant , Stefan Winter , Yaron Sheffer , Jean-Michel Combes , "iana-issues@iana.org" References: <151311235688.14136.16514177051945871238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: "Joel M. Halpern" Message-ID: <495098ab-9e50-ff00-627b-41752166138c@joelhalpern.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:35:59 -0500 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.12; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:36:04 -0000 Thanks Ron. The changes related to our discussions nicely address my concerns. Yours, Joel On 12/12/17 4:14 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: > Folks, > > I have posted a new version of draft-ietf-intarea-probe reflecting IETF LC comments from Joel, Stewart, Stephan, Yaron and Amanda. Please take a look at the document to make sure that I have addressed your comments satisfactorily. > > Ron > > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 3:59 PM > To: Ron Bonica ; Mohamed Boucadair ; Jen Linkova ; Reji Thomas ; J. Linkova ; Chris Lenart > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt has been successfully submitted by Ron Bonica and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-intarea-probe > Revision: 08 > Title: PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces > Document date: 2017-12-12 > Group: intarea > Pages: 17 > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 > > Abstract: > This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. > PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to query the status > of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not > require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed > interfaces. Instead, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity > between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy > interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it > can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly > connected. This document updates RFC 4884. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > From nobody Tue Dec 12 13:36:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD52C12956D; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:36:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.978 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.978 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, MISSING_HEADERS=1.021, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-2.8, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3MC19edfD7yj; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtp01.icann.org (smtp01.icann.org [192.0.46.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 902A912956B; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:36:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from request3.lax.icann.org (request1.lax.icann.org [10.32.11.221]) by smtp01.icann.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5A1CE0CE8; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:36:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: by request3.lax.icann.org (Postfix, from userid 48) id 6BED5C20667; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:36:04 +0000 (UTC) RT-Owner: Nobody From: "Amanda Baber via RT" Reply-To: iana-issues-comment@iana.org In-Reply-To: References: <151311235688.14136.16514177051945871238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Message-ID: X-RT-Loop-Prevention: IANA X-RT-Ticket: IANA #992480 X-Managed-BY: RT 4.2.9 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/) X-RT-Originator: amanda.baber@icann.org CC: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org, stefan.winter@restena.lu, jeanmichel.combes@gmail.com, yaronf.ietf@gmail.com, stewart.bryant@gmail.com, int-area@ietf.org, rbonica@juniper.net, michelle.cotton@iana.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" X-RT-Original-Encoding: utf-8 Precedence: bulk Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:36:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] [IANA #992480] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:36:09 -0000 Hi Ron, We need to ask for one more thing that we didn't ask for in our review, and it's because there's an error in the registration procedure data in the registries. Both https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters and https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmp-parameters incorrectly state that the IESG Approval or Standards Action are the registration procedures for all "Code" registries. However, RFC 4443 and RFC 2780 state that "The policy for assigning Code values for new IPv6 ICMP Types not defined in this document should be defined in the document defining the new Type" (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4443#section-6.1) and "The policy for assigning Code values for new IPv4 ICMP Types should be defined in the document defining the new Type value" (https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2780, section 6). Can you provide registration procedures for all of the Code registries? For our purposes, these could be added to the document as late as after IESG approval, when we're completing the actions, if that's more convenient/appropriate. Was our identification of 15 as the maximum values for the Code registries correct? Amanda On Tue Dec 12 21:14:40 2017, rbonica@juniper.net wrote: > Folks, > > I have posted a new version of draft-ietf-intarea-probe reflecting > IETF LC comments from Joel, Stewart, Stephan, Yaron and Amanda. Please > take a look at the document to make sure that I have addressed your > comments satisfactorily. > > Ron > > > -----Original Message----- > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 3:59 PM > To: Ron Bonica ; Mohamed Boucadair > ; Jen Linkova ; Reji > Thomas ; J. Linkova ; Chris > Lenart > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt has been > successfully submitted by Ron Bonica and posted to the IETF > repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-intarea-probe > Revision: 08 > Title: PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces > Document date: 2017-12-12 > Group: intarea > Pages: 17 > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 > > Abstract: > This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. > PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to query the > status > of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not > require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed > interfaces. Instead, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity > between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy > interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it > can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly > connected. This document updates RFC 4884. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > From nobody Tue Dec 12 13:55:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDC8A1289B0; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:55:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with 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, "stefan.winter@restena.lu" , "jeanmichel.combes@gmail.com" , "yaronf.ietf@gmail.com" , "stewart.bryant@gmail.com" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "michelle.cotton@iana.org" Thread-Topic: [IANA #992480] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt Thread-Index: AQHTc4wYsv5r5Sa6CkSuNs0JBd/gsKNAMf2AgAAJVwCAAAUtEA== Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:55:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151311235688.14136.16514177051945871238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR0501MB2050; 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IG9mDQo+ID4gc3VibWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBh cmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0DQo+ID4gdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQo+ID4NCj4gPiBUaGUgSUVURiBT ZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0KPiA+DQo+IA0KPiANCg0K From nobody Tue Dec 12 14:04:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2542124217; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:04:57 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151311629769.30080.3125742991216151158@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:04:57 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:04:58 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces Authors : Ron Bonica Reji Thomas Jen Linkova Chris Lenart Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-12-12 Abstract: This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to query the status of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed interfaces. Instead, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly connected. This document updates RFC 4884. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue Dec 12 14:14:57 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A973D128959; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:14:55 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alexey Melnikov To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151311689568.30177.4846988478833759505.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:14:55 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:14:55 -0000 Alexey Melnikov has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is a fine document. One small comment about the note in the IANA Considerations section suggesting that the whole section is to be removed before publication. This note is not correct, as IANA needs to be able to point to documents which originated various IANA actions. From nobody Tue Dec 12 14:23:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58428127444; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:23:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 1CmTmgeTyXy8; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:23:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2A7012420B; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:23:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from pps.filterd (m0108162.ppops.net [127.0.0.1]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (8.16.0.21/8.16.0.21) with SMTP id vBCLEYhC004633; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:14:35 -0800 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=juniper.net; h=from : to : subject : date : message-id : references : in-reply-to : content-type : content-transfer-encoding : mime-version; s=PPS1017; bh=fHI5fX10a+YRTohixGJ89rrHfGPkK+0JIInvd+FVARs=; b=GIOq9tmFODyZwcjO9amj43Tc0X+Qu6Q/dVLM41HpNYKICEWee2/lEjGx8IJGn9OzrrdV i+g5cRhoUf7Nc6rLGnBVa8OUmXvuuEOPKY84BGJe4WvDx7+IZwV6W3xlvZPmPIIIoJkj 1nYxGWFPFwHRJrgPSb2s1GXtUFYjxfQW7Rorg8E31G1LtZzVpFg3qFdvcdkS+FvAm1By d9P4zNaDzcJ+ZGIAKiPie1fkFhWqtUDs8lPcTFdDLxynH2bpTAbHTRNgIVyyLsme2hj8 oJ+Iu9Qj/D7J3SRtKrO59tAJxZJSxYBiKv1QrauHbajoCMJsUPHzO602q+cCjzvQCn7l JQ== Received: from nam02-cy1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02lp0050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.50]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2etp0e84rk-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 12 Dec 2017 13:14:34 -0800 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) by BLUPR0501MB2050.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.323.4; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:14:25 +0000 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) with mapi id 15.20.0323.011; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:14:25 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "Joel M. Halpern" , Stewart Bryant , Stefan Winter , "Yaron Sheffer" , Jean-Michel Combes , "iana-issues@iana.org" Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt Thread-Index: AQHTc4wYsv5r5Sa6CkSuNs0JBd/gsKNAMf2A Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 21:14:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151311235688.14136.16514177051945871238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151311235688.14136.16514177051945871238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR0501MB2050; 6:NIvazWntkG4hj+eRcZGfQn9Ga/8DT9t7F2dEicdvKnxu6orgJkoR1618suUZHPUAvv4YxHOEQvroBM5LKTox3J4oSEzLHVqFmATcIgHtYukGBnbbcx1ieNjvXSnk4kdP2FDe0mjIChbXYkmwmjXRcP/NI1QSRzVF2XsB5r/BpqBq5TXn491wO0BTO8HbYZ11ujZ1skpui39SvEma0HNbQwVKfU97Tw5NGktV1hs5t7XNAN7EeRYfv4TuRTdK5Kqd05U216nsi+QZ8WND61YlGlzOwUdNnfQXUeyGgXZaCg8OCmC5EYxB786wuxd8PECdFQGG26YIDoP1ARIX/A56y5zO9lldM27XEgJR9aQk31E=; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2050; H:BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 67215dfe-15a2-42a4-2c43-08d541a552eb X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Dec 2017 21:14:25.8252 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2050 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-12_10:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712120302 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 22:23:10 -0000 Rm9sa3MsDQoNCkkgaGF2ZSBwb3N0ZWQgYSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWludGFy ZWEtcHJvYmUgcmVmbGVjdGluZyBJRVRGIExDIGNvbW1lbnRzIGZyb20gSm9lbCwgU3Rld2FydCwg U3RlcGhhbiwgWWFyb24gYW5kIEFtYW5kYS4gUGxlYXNlIHRha2UgYSBsb29rIGF0IHRoZSBkb2N1 bWVudCB0byBtYWtlIHN1cmUgdGhhdCBJIGhhdmUgYWRkcmVzc2VkIHlvdXIgY29tbWVudHMgc2F0 aXNmYWN0b3JpbHkuIA0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICBSb24NCg0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTog aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3JnIFttYWlsdG86aW50ZXJuZXQtZHJhZnRzQGlldGYub3Jn XSANClNlbnQ6IFR1ZXNkYXksIERlY2VtYmVyIDEyLCAyMDE3IDM6NTkgUE0NClRvOiBSb24gQm9u aWNhIDxyYm9uaWNhQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PjsgTW9oYW1lZCBCb3VjYWRhaXIgPG1vaGFtZWQuYm91 Y2FkYWlyQG9yYW5nZS5jb20+OyBKZW4gTGlua292YSA8ZnVycnlAZ29vZ2xlLmNvbT47IFJlamkg VGhvbWFzIDxyZWppdGhvbWFzQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PjsgSi4gTGlua292YSA8ZnVycnlAZ29vZ2xl LmNvbT47IENocmlzIExlbmFydCA8Y2hyaXMubGVuYXJ0QHZlcml6b24uY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDog TmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC1pZXRmLWludGFyZWEtcHJvYmUtMDgu dHh0DQoNCg0KQSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBJLUQsIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaW50YXJlYS1wcm9iZS0w OC50eHQgaGFzIGJlZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IHN1Ym1pdHRlZCBieSBSb24gQm9uaWNhIGFuZCBw b3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0KTmFtZToJCWRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaW50YXJl YS1wcm9iZQ0KUmV2aXNpb246CTA4DQpUaXRsZToJCVBST0JFOiBBIFV0aWxpdHkgRm9yIFByb2Jp bmcgSW50ZXJmYWNlcw0KRG9jdW1lbnQgZGF0ZToJMjAxNy0xMi0xMg0KR3JvdXA6CQlpbnRhcmVh DQpQYWdlczoJCTE3DQoNClRoZSBJRVRGIGRhdGF0cmFja2VyIHN0YXR1cyBwYWdlIGZvciB0aGlz IGRyYWZ0IGlzOg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1p bnRhcmVhLXByb2JlLw0KDQpUaGVyZSBhcmUgYWxzbyBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9ucyBhdmFpbGFi bGUgYXQ6DQpodHRwczovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1pbnRhcmVhLXBy b2JlLTA4DQpodHRwczovL2RhdGF0cmFja2VyLmlldGYub3JnL2RvYy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LWlldGYt aW50YXJlYS1wcm9iZS0wOA0KDQpBIGRpZmYgZnJvbSB0aGUgcHJldmlvdXMgdmVyc2lvbiBpcyBh dmFpbGFibGUgYXQ6DQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9yZmNkaWZmP3VybDI9ZHJhZnQtaWV0 Zi1pbnRhcmVhLXByb2JlLTA4DQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCBkZXNjcmli ZXMgYSBuZXR3b3JrIGRpYWdub3N0aWMgdG9vbCBjYWxsZWQgUFJPQkUuDQogICBQUk9CRSBpcyBz aW1pbGFyIHRvIFBJTkcsIGluIHRoYXQgaXQgY2FuIGJlIHVzZWQgdG8gcXVlcnkgdGhlIHN0YXR1 cw0KICAgb2YgYSBwcm9iZWQgaW50ZXJmYWNlLiAgSXQgZGlmZmVycyBmcm9tIFBJTkcgaW4gdGhh dCBpdCBkb2VzIG5vdA0KICAgcmVxdWlyZSBiaWRpcmVjdGlvbmFsIGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eSBiZXR3 ZWVuIHRoZSBwcm9iaW5nIGFuZCBwcm9iZWQNCiAgIGludGVyZmFjZXMuICBJbnN0ZWFkLCBQUk9C RSByZXF1aXJlcyBiaWRpcmVjdGlvbmFsIGNvbm5lY3Rpdml0eQ0KICAgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgcHJv YmluZyBpbnRlcmZhY2UgYW5kIGEgcHJveHkgaW50ZXJmYWNlLiAgVGhlIHByb3h5DQogICBpbnRl cmZhY2UgY2FuIHJlc2lkZSBvbiB0aGUgc2FtZSBub2RlIGFzIHRoZSBwcm9iZWQgaW50ZXJmYWNl IG9yIGl0DQogICBjYW4gcmVzaWRlIG9uIGEgbm9kZSB0byB3aGljaCB0aGUgcHJvYmVkIGludGVy ZmFjZSBpcyBkaXJlY3RseQ0KICAgY29ubmVjdGVkLiAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVudCB1cGRhdGVzIFJG QyA0ODg0Lg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQoNCg0KUGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhh dCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhlIHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlz c2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBhcmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0 IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0KDQo= From nobody Tue Dec 12 16:20:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1FE3112785F; Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:20:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Eric Rescorla To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151312445212.30031.10241103164330453479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:20:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 00:20:52 -0000 Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I share Yaron Sheffer's concern about the incoming ACL. Do you really mean to list all the probe-capable nodes? or IPv6 Neighbor Cache [RFC4861]. Otherwise, it reports that the interface does not exist. Hmm... So you don't try to ping it yourself? That's interesting. the probed node. The L-bit is clear if the probed interface is directly connected to the probed node. Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does the probing node know? I.e., can it address by IP address and set L=0? View Inlinedraft-ietf-intarea-probe.txt:365 Ethernet is running on the probed interface. Otherwise, the E-bit is clear. This seems pretty limited. Does "WiFi" count for instance? 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[66.146.167.162]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 131sm739070itf.25.2017.12.12.23.21.57 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:21:58 -0800 (PST) To: "Joel M. Halpern" , Ron Bonica , "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , Stewart Bryant , Stefan Winter , Jean-Michel Combes , "iana-issues@iana.org" References: <151311235688.14136.16514177051945871238.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <495098ab-9e50-ff00-627b-41752166138c@joelhalpern.com> From: Yaron Sheffer Message-ID: <9f597be7-23a4-ab87-f4ef-1f96a9b571f7@gmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 23:21:56 -0800 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <495098ab-9e50-ff00-627b-41752166138c@joelhalpern.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 07:22:02 -0000 Same here. Thanks, Yaron On 12/12/17 13:35, Joel M. Halpern wrote: > Thanks Ron.  The changes related to our discussions nicely address my > concerns. > Yours, > Joel > > On 12/12/17 4:14 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: >> Folks, >> >> I have posted a new version of draft-ietf-intarea-probe reflecting >> IETF LC comments from Joel, Stewart, Stephan, Yaron and Amanda. Please >> take a look at the document to make sure that I have addressed your >> comments satisfactorily. >> >>                                                        Ron >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org] >> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 3:59 PM >> To: Ron Bonica ; Mohamed Boucadair >> ; Jen Linkova ; Reji >> Thomas ; J. Linkova ; Chris >> Lenart >> Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt >> >> >> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08.txt has been >> successfully submitted by Ron Bonica and posted to the IETF repository. >> >> Name:        draft-ietf-intarea-probe >> Revision:    08 >> Title:        PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces >> Document date:    2017-12-12 >> Group:        intarea >> Pages:        17 >> >> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ >> >> There are also htmlized versions available at: >> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 >> >> A diff from the previous version is available at: >> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-08 >> >> Abstract: >>     This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. >>     PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to query the status >>     of a probed interface.  It differs from PING in that it does not >>     require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed >>     interfaces.  Instead, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity >>     between the probing interface and a proxy interface.  The proxy >>     interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it >>     can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly >>     connected.  This document updates RFC 4884. >> >> >> >> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of >> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at >> tools.ietf.org. >> >> The IETF Secretariat >> From nobody Wed Dec 13 10:13:00 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A07112704B; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:12:59 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Kathleen Moriarty To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151318877929.30204.3784427299489982417.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 10:12:59 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Kathleen Moriarty's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 18:12:59 -0000 Kathleen Moriarty has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for your responses on the SecDir review. There were 3 points and I think you've come to a conclusion on each of them, but let me verify from the updated text in versions 8 and 9. >From the review: * The probed interface can be identified by an IEEE 802 address (presumably, a MAC address). This is an important detail from a security point of view. Normally you don't expect a remote node to be able to access machines by MAC address, and many firewall deployments enforce access control solely at the IP level. KMM: The following was added in 4.1: "o The L-bit is set and the ICMP Extension Structure does not identify any local interfaces o The L-bit is clear and the address or addresses found in the Interface Identification object appear in neither the IPv4 Address Resolution Protocol (ARP) Table nor the IPv6 Neighbor Cache" And that's an improvement, thank you. * Similarly, in an IPv4 setting, the proxy can be identified by a routable address, and used to probe a non-routable (RFC 1918) address. KMM: I don't see added text to point out this as was requested. Can you point me to the text or add some? * "The incoming ICMP Extend Echo Request carries a source address that is not explicitly authorized for the incoming ICMP Extended Echo Request L-bit setting" - this implies a per-node whitelist listing all IP addresses that are allowed to probe it. I don't think we mean seriously to list all the addresses that can ping a given node, so this smells like security theater - sorry. KMM: The last one - I agree with Ron, it is common practice to have explicit allow only lists, at least for any organization I worked. I think this is a good recommendation to keep in the document. Thank you! From nobody Wed Dec 13 13:17:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A0C1128DF6; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:17:16 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: Alvaro Retana To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151319983629.30177.6703576748992856921.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:17:16 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:17:16 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) The Code field of the Request is set to 0 - what happens if a different value is received? (2) The Request includes 2 fields (Identifier and Sequence Number) that are used “to aid in matching Extended Echo Replies to Extended Echo Requests”. Their use seems to be a local matter (as the values are simply copied in to the Reply. Can you please provide guidance on their use? Why are there 2 fields (and not just a single one)? I’m assuming/hoping that the design had use cases in mind that can be reflected in the document. (3) It would be nice to set up a registry for the Reserved fields. (4) I’m not sure I understand the use/intention of the L-bit. The description says that it is used (on the Request) to indicate whether the probed interfaces resides on the proxy node (or not). How does the originator of the Request know that information? The other function of this bit seems to be to control how the Interface Identification Object can identify the probed interface…while it seems to make sense that a probed interface that doesn’t reside on the proxy node would only be identified by it’s address, it still makes me wonder how the sender of the Request would know, and why it even matters that it does and that it indicates it to the proxy node. 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 0020ea40-c335-4bba-a425-08d5426edaa0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Dec 2017 21:17:02.3496 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2050 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-13_12:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712130292 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: 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nw== Received: from nam03-by2-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-by2nam03lp0053.outbound.protection.outlook.com [216.32.180.53]) by mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2eub0sg5w6-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:22:15 -0800 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.323.4; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:22:13 +0000 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) with mapi id 15.20.0323.011; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:22:13 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Alexey Melnikov , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , Luigi Iannone , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "ggx@gigix.net" , "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ccb277f7-c969-4a38-9963-08d5426f93fc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Dec 2017 21:22:13.3307 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2051 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-13_12:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712130293 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Alexey Melnikov's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: 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IiBjb3VudCBmb3IgaW5zdGFuY2U/DQo+IA0KW1JCIF0gDQpUaGUgRS1iaXQgd2FzIHJlbW92ZWQg aW4gcmVzcG9uc2UgdG8gbGFzdCBjYWxsIGNvbW1lbnRzDQoNCg== From nobody Wed Dec 13 13:54:11 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 590B11201F8; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:10 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Warren Kumari To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151320205036.30085.4282694850670112463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 13:54:10 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 21:54:10 -0000 Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: Discuss When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- DISCUSS: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- This is, I believe a minor DISCUSS, and I'll happily clear it once a commitment is made that it will be addressed / on the call (AKA, I'm not going to hold up the document, but there isn't a "Comment" and "Very important comment" in the datatracker). Stefan Winter's OpsDir review contains: "* Introduction states "[...] if it appears in the IPv4 Address Resolution Protocol (ARP) table [RFC0826] or IPv6 Neighbor Cache [RFC4861]." "Appears" is a rather loose word, as entries in those tables can have multiple states. E.g. for IPv6, which of the states DELAY, STALE, REACHABLE do you mean? All? Or only a subset? In IPv4, do you mean the "C" flag exclusively? Also, when the proxy operates remotely (i.e. bases the reply on ARP/Neighbor Cache rather than ifOperStatus), does it actively ping the interface in question itself? If not, how does it handle an interface address which is not in the ARP/Neighbour table simply because the entry has timed out? The interface might be up and active nontheless. In such a case, reporting "does not exist" is false." Ron Bonica's suggested solution in: https://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/int-area/current/msg06136.html works for me, but I do not see it in the version being discussed. This would make a substantive change to the document, I wanted to draw attention to it. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- In the version I'd initially reviewed there were codes for things like: "E (Ethernet) - The E-bit is set if the A-bit is also set and IPv4 is running on the probed interface. Otherwise, the E-bit is clear." I was going to fuss and ask what makes Ethernet special -- but, seeing as this is removed in the newest version I have nothing to fuss about. :-) From nobody Wed Dec 13 14:16:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 949EC128854 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vyYpdXeBddmJ for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-yb0-x22c.google.com (mail-yb0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 417F61205F0 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:38 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-yb0-x22c.google.com with SMTP id z11so2042410ybm.1 for ; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=rtfm-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Ar6pBxbLT8JNMgDv/1BNK5U7YZP/6wx26zj/1YPdRzY=; b=s+YbxQzzF4xclwrf4C2xRzF2W45hNBJNEB/6yGPBadBBuCjGqdktYlBUFBdcHVgQH3 jk/g8KKZfwrcPO8fJRljlywaOuSbY+70i6WNe1lc6nnjf8I9Ezp6Hex5GNg/uEQF2Xnn xoNzwSJFYTFZ36sMyqsxbSTgk3vi5/ORoe1oqErfFWfbEBYEMjqlEEgJJyGNMvkkODlY y64LDNAuXs1Elbj65QChQW/F+X9Y9RuyKRSxAdPfmy1naLg9tw/0QZRiKYYASDVboujR evonweEhmYMRzUWlUhHLMxoSlbumNxVm9qk6TvJHoZsOF+BMTOiOGFtAHJniSLE0pYnO YaFQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Ar6pBxbLT8JNMgDv/1BNK5U7YZP/6wx26zj/1YPdRzY=; b=HBQebMKPEe2ozjGCSETdb08VcT20sDf7vFPOiRrILBRbD7SFaPXyaaUjsIZFKjl8hF KGARymqC1LBymyrrSN4ZKVsscM9HzZugUuKtiDPF3Gw1ech3Mty5Z1SoKVV/Ub1uw92V G/sW38hFPYV9yrFsRMlJOk/y0ftRmySD9o+sTGV9zjufOzYeI1J3BLw4JbVgU0+rqnhO uC1gWJ5uwYEkNzsBK/W/+KPto+pTeez9ukohEskeKDBNqx6xHP0cwmFhUQ9OSZ8ZMSzx SuFpuF+EMsjf1ZhwiQuVln8v5ENp6SBUScDp5osievrA9tsYmpLQnKlEk8vxv+taNhUO ak3g== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mIOko/P178st14zsWCe5KUfMhTHgDcTkbPDX7QlUYxZMyDX/ch5 cwTxgISAJq8UhDWF8QBPWWHucgkaicT53SUVHM1bPg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBotyMWb1/qgW4yNwYkuC7VMDMkNiaPz8X4zRaNl1rgrfmqKv6FTJKwalrj6/RTzr7Bgx0O62lDJGW5u9n4U8kWs= X-Received: by 10.37.224.215 with SMTP id x206mr3010053ybg.200.1513203397430; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:16:37 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.129.123.132 with HTTP; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:15:56 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <151312445212.30031.10241103164330453479.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Eric Rescorla Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 14:15:56 -0800 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , Luigi Iannone , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c086896fa27420560401e17" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 22:16:42 -0000 --94eb2c086896fa27420560401e17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Ron Bonica wrote: > Hi Eric, > > Thanks for the review. Responses inline...... > > Ron > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:21 PM > > To: The IESG > > Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org; Luigi Iannone ; > > intarea-chairs@ietf.org; ggx@gigix.net; int-area@ietf.org > > Subject: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: > (with > > COMMENT) > > > > Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for > > draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection > [RB ] > [snip] > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > COMMENT: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > I share Yaron Sheffer's concern about the incoming ACL. Do you really > mean > > to list all the probe-capable nodes? > [RB ] > The ACL doesn't list all probe-capable nodes. It is configure on a > probe-capable node and it enumerates the prefixes from which it will accept > an ICMP Extended Echo Request. > > For example, assume that an ISP deploys PROBE capable software on its > routers. By default, these routers won't accept an ICMP Extended Echo > Request from anybody. The ISP will probably want to enable PROBE, but only > if the ICMP Extended Echo Request comes from the NOC or from a few other > trusted prefixes. So, the ISP will put those prefixes into the ACL. > > I am thinking that the number of prefixes will typically be very small > (e.g., the NOC). > Thanks. > or IPv6 Neighbor Cache [RFC4861]. Otherwise, it reports that the > > interface does not exist. > > Hmm... So you don't try to ping it yourself? That's interesting. > [RB ] > The proxy node could ping the probed interface, but that would require the > router to main state. We don't want to go there for scaling and security > reasons. > > Rather than doing that, PROBE looks for an entry in the ARP Table and > Neighbor Cache. Prior version 08 of this draft, the proxy node assumed that > the probed interface does not exist if it is not in the ARP Table and > Neighbor Cache. IETF LC reviewers pointed out that this assumption is not > safe. So now, the proxy node reports that the table entry does not exist. > In no longer reports that the interface does not exist. > OK. > the probed node. The L-bit is clear if the probed interface is > > directly connected to the probed node. > > Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does the probing node know? > > I.e., can it address by IP address and set L=0? > [RB ] > This is a parameter to the Probe application. See the appendix. > I did note that. It seems kind of limited, but it's your choice, obviously -Ekr --94eb2c086896fa27420560401e17 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 1:43 PM, Ron Bonica <rbonica@juniper.net= > wrote:
Hi Eric,

Thanks for the review. Responses inline......

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 Ron


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eric Rescorla [mailto:ekr@rtfm.c= om]
> Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2017 7:21 PM
> To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>= ;
> Cc: draft-ietf-in= tarea-probe@ietf.org; Luigi Iannone <ggx@gigix.net>;
> intarea-chairs@ietf.org= ; ggx@gigix.net; int-area@ietf.org
> Subject: Eric Rescorla's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-= 09: (with
> COMMENT)
>
> Eric Rescorla has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection
[RB ]
[snip]
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
> COMMENT:
> ------------------------------------------------------------= ----------
>
> I share Yaron Sheffer's concern about the incoming ACL. Do you rea= lly mean
> to list all the probe-capable nodes?
[RB ]
The ACL doesn't list all probe-capable nodes. It is configure on a prob= e-capable node and it enumerates the prefixes from which it will accept an = ICMP Extended Echo Request.

For example, assume that an ISP deploys PROBE capable software on its route= rs. By default, these routers won't accept an ICMP Extended Echo Reques= t from anybody. The ISP will probably want to enable PROBE, but only if the= ICMP Extended Echo Request comes from the NOC or from a few other trusted = prefixes. So, the ISP will put those prefixes into the ACL.

I am thinking that the number of prefixes will typically be very small (e.g= ., the NOC).

Thanks.


>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 or IPv6 Neighbor Cache [RFC4861].=C2=A0 Otherwise, it rep= orts that the
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 interface does not exist.
> Hmm... So you don't try to ping it yourself? That's interestin= g.
[RB ]
The proxy node could ping the probed interface, but that would require the = router to main state. We don't want to go there for scaling and securit= y reasons.

Rather than doing that, PROBE looks for an entry in the ARP Table and Neigh= bor Cache. Prior version 08 of this draft, the proxy node assumed that the = probed interface does not exist if it is not in the ARP Table and Neighbor = Cache. IETF LC reviewers pointed out that this assumption is not safe. So n= ow, the proxy node reports that the table entry does not exist. In no longe= r reports that the interface does not exist.

OK.


>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0the probed node.=C2=A0 The L-bit is clear if= the probed interface is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0directly connected to the probed node.
> Maybe I'm missing something here, but how does the probing node kn= ow?
> I.e., can it address by IP address and set L=3D0?
[RB ]
This is a parameter to the Probe application. See the appendix.

I did note that. It seems kind of limited, but it&= #39;s your choice, obviously
-Ekr


<= /div>
--94eb2c086896fa27420560401e17-- From nobody Wed Dec 13 19:11:21 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4EA8120727; Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:11:20 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ben Campbell To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151322108093.6178.3442590912691561741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 13 Dec 2017 19:11:20 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 03:11:21 -0000 Ben Campbell has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- -1.2: There is at least one lower case MUST. Unless that is intended as normative, please consider using the boilerplate from RFC8174. -8, last paragraph: "MUST NOT leak information" seems more like a goal or a statement of fact than a normative requirement. (I think the 2nd MUST in that paragraph describes the real normative requirement") From nobody Thu Dec 14 04:28:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 629FD128D16; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:28:17 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind?= To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151325449739.6152.11072339811800099297.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 04:28:17 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_dra?= =?utf-8?q?ft-ietf-intarea-probe-09=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 12:28:17 -0000 Mirja Kühlewind has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- I just had a very brief read of this document, but otherwise I'm missing something, I believe the bit lengths of the fields of the Interface Identification Object are not specified. Is there maybe an image missing? From nobody Thu Dec 14 06:25:23 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21FD11200CF; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:25:18 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Benoit Claise To: "The IESG" Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org, Luigi Iannone , intarea-chairs@ietf.org, ggx@gigix.net, int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.67.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151326151813.6075.3567143190416738307.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 06:25:18 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 14:25:18 -0000 Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- No objection to the publication of this document. However, some comments. So basically you specify the same functionality as remote ping MIB in RFC4560 where - probing interface = SNMP manager - proxy interface = SNMP agent - probed agent = destination Right? So any connection with RFC4560? I guess this mechanism is a similar functionality as RFC 6812, where - proxy agent = sender - responder = destination ... even the technology is not based on the ICMP extended echo As such I believe that the RFC 6812 IPR applies here as well. However, I'm not the one to make the call. So I will forward to the appropriate persons. Potentially the OWAMP IPRs apply as well. https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=draft&id=draft-ietf-ippm-owdp From nobody Thu Dec 14 08:26:36 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7ED9127522; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:26:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9pJ0pgSU9eAa; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:26:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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F18LmqWDBh4BM6qxt0C7RzLbs/SCPwUdHVtEliEcZTABFUGSETZZf8mMIND+AADwOKSf YA== Received: from nam02-cy1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-cys01nam02lp0050.outbound.protection.outlook.com [207.46.163.50]) by mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 2eurxg0jep-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 08:26:23 -0800 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) by BLUPR0501MB2050.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.20) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.323.4; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:26:20 +0000 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) with mapi id 15.20.0323.011; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:26:20 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Benoit Claise , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , Luigi Iannone , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "ggx@gigix.net" , "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdOdgbe2G1NExNkyqID6YNTKRP6NC/5Tg Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 16:26:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151326151813.6075.3567143190416738307.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151326151813.6075.3567143190416738307.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.12] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR0501MB2050; 6:oZv+q0f76PUL9QuvJz3AbGY5Ed6/0TxlsRZfL/N8N9DJni+7FDHSwwEo31aPyUrudCNeHaF8fNsjtoG9yNmRkUc+ZXL/pwoTgzHBb2VuRVU11PDGrcd+kzTB+gVl2UoBtCDHrdlYHjrqnTtBWNA9U+3EIVYqsUYgdkrxYC1Nz+FoFltth/8j4UcVL+4pbdVOiL6V7OB3VcVFNpYK/RRWVL6BHiiKB7vBTKXmjrwOWvszocSiKt+0u9D7UgWadU0fyiax9uIQe5TVFUZ0Y1U6jNM3yTPQRMZyZFZbj4ZVBEsz/V0q1vtSDn+Xc0txwPYCjltf0Czn3WOHZx3sfq5PPx5RH+ILxTnki4NLphuJDrg=; 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c4caccec-3012-466b-6707-08d5430f6909 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Dec 2017 16:26:20.7181 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2050 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-14_10:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712140224 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list 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from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com (10.164.23.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA384_P256) id 15.20.323.4; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:03:54 +0000 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) with mapi id 15.20.0323.011; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:03:54 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Ben Campbell , The IESG CC: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , Luigi Iannone , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "ggx@gigix.net" , "int-area@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdIk6qHHqeqa6VUCMqya37elQT6NDDTuA Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:03:54 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151322108093.6178.3442590912691561741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <151322108093.6178.3442590912691561741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Accept-Language: en-US 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2051; H:BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: a313ba80-291b-436b-5f76-08d54314a837 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Dec 2017 17:03:54.1995 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2051 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-14_11:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712140233 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:04:01 -0000 SGkgQmVuLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHRoZSByZXZpZXcuIENvbW1lbnRzIGlubGluZS4uLi4uDQoN CiAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgUm9uDQoNCj4gLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0N Cj4gRnJvbTogQmVuIENhbXBiZWxsIFttYWlsdG86YmVuQG5vc3RydW0uY29tXQ0KPiBTZW50OiBX ZWRuZXNkYXksIERlY2VtYmVyIDEzLCAyMDE3IDEwOjExIFBNDQo+IFRvOiBUaGUgSUVTRyA8aWVz Z0BpZXRmLm9yZz4NCj4gQ2M6IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaW50YXJlYS1wcm9iZUBpZXRmLm9yZzsgTHVp 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 6b7497b7-f1fd-4410-4d1a-08d543173bb6 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Dec 2017 17:22:20.7436 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2049 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-14_11:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712140236 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_dr?= =?utf-8?q?aft-ietf-intarea-probe-09=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org 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ZmllZC4gSXMgdGhlcmUgbWF5YmUgYW4gaW1hZ2UgbWlzc2luZz8NCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Dec 14 15:23:32 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D8BAA1287A5; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:23:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.879 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.879 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, T_SPF_HELO_PERMERROR=0.01, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ev2aZpMgUT8c; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from nostrum.com (raven-v6.nostrum.com [IPv6:2001:470:d:1130::1]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C084C12714F; Thu, 14 Dec 2017 15:23:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.0.1.99] (cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22]) (authenticated bits=0) by nostrum.com (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPSA id vBENNQG3048869 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:23:27 -0600 (CST) (envelope-from ben@nostrum.com) X-Authentication-Warning: raven.nostrum.com: Host cpe-66-25-7-22.tx.res.rr.com [66.25.7.22] claimed to be [10.0.1.99] From: Ben Campbell Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A3B83966-7EDE-422B-A2F5-4FB0EA0B11DF"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.2 \(3445.5.20\)) Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 17:23:25 -0600 In-Reply-To: Cc: The IESG , "ggx@gigix.net" , "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" To: Ron Bonica References: <151322108093.6178.3442590912691561741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.5.20) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Dec 2017 23:23:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A3B83966-7EDE-422B-A2F5-4FB0EA0B11DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Dec 14, 2017, at 11:03 AM, Ron Bonica wrote: >=20 > Hi Ben, >=20 > Thanks for the review. Comments inline..... >=20 > Ron >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Ben Campbell [mailto:ben@nostrum.com] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 10:11 PM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org; Luigi Iannone ; >> intarea-chairs@ietf.org; ggx@gigix.net; int-area@ietf.org >> Subject: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: = (with >> COMMENT) [=E2=80=A6] > [RB ] > I respectfully disagree. If PROBE leaks information between routing = instances, we will have created a rather serious security vulnerability. = So, this is a standing-on-our-heads-serious requirement. I agree it=E2=80=99s really important, but it=E2=80=99s still a = statement of fact. It=E2=80=99s not normative in the sense that it = doesn=E2=80=99t offer instruction to implementers so much as it offers a = reason for the _next_ requirement: "Therefore, when a node receives an ICMP Extended Echo Request and the = proxy interface is in a different VPN than the probed interface, the = node MUST return an ICMP Extended Echo Reply with error code equal to = (2) No Such Interface. =E2=80=9C Isn=E2=80=99t _that_ the real normative requirement? In any case, this is not a blocking comment, so feel free to ignore it = :-) Thanks! Ben. >=20 > = Ron >=20 >=20 --Apple-Mail=_A3B83966-7EDE-422B-A2F5-4FB0EA0B11DF Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEExW9rpd7ez4DexOFOgFZKbJXz1A0FAlozB+0ACgkQgFZKbJXz 1A2Yfg//Z9LxqGHI/TERXtSr1JomvioNTmISmUNwWCTng/oKFHTPYVRG44VaB/QR wnasI8zdEqXS1fKlUHHxcjIC56cub6d3nqonWWBpxGu2y+OoppGbWV7LUt7rAbdp CnhNAQAaw6ClCiziutK0Rvse65xuOzI6LOZAJgfhA69akMr4lnw0fBmCW8F77nIc vrCV13P8ovjxORMvcwFfivD5fsXu1oEz8hXcksCrPLSSKcxUpE57d++rSfVOF5Fu vJ7AJmoZhwdBGOpA91AeaFXvKnC+ze7zIpIMSse6BLrA9Ba6O/pT59f7vtnxfGMb RJ9YV38R9ydTJQ2kICbfxhRY54y/luTVXAA/5XDzdxq8Wu6DmJ+fPoYI5GXjLPSk pixtqKc44gSI+/smncYmMf+BxAW1HMMi1jB10uOIAo67ju6uoGGbNlQbe+JTsqZQ XAl1MTtosvnNMsT2lauljXzVReEEC9YwiJmiLKa/7/zagSQb8sbTkwqL1Q59nrgu WjYY3n9Si1H27w+1eH147CpeamvEPx6dTHqJLqcu+5TaN/qKsawDyDZGdoW7Uu+Y x/asLWrzEaGVri2wRmku/xGPLPFW44Nj491KzhdkQsc92HRPaVViN/k8XqdlPBKj dRrE86fU11z0WSRdRm+/NXBzuWWOblw9t/474HbxpQn48nz8faQ= =cB2g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_A3B83966-7EDE-422B-A2F5-4FB0EA0B11DF-- From nobody Fri Dec 15 07:17:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BBFB6128B93; 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Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:17:29 +0000 Received: from BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) by BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([10.164.23.21]) with mapi id 15.20.0323.015; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:17:29 +0000 From: Ron Bonica To: Ben Campbell CC: The IESG , "ggx@gigix.net" , "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) Thread-Index: AQHTdIk6qHHqeqa6VUCMqya37elQT6NDDTuAgABuxoCAAQpuEA== Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:17:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <151322108093.6178.3442590912691561741.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.11] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; BLUPR0501MB2050; 6:76ARHeAt3+1/IlXhAOUVeMgC8Ssc1OyCJ59xRJzZb6Uktf/8RdQB3VFTuHss+kJ1G+sKIs+fj640OgzoO1RqP7onwHWxZwWDBqD058spXHwt4YEmRDXk+peuGjbyhlVnaKdJ3ptKHtgR1EZ+1q7j8fUW1z4dLo+Z7FClQofWsWgt8EP0g3sgJ165CK5xFHr81xIrxvOghzzqwpZMU6riZr03ldxrZqyoSNisv4s60ahDYReb8TXqs3qonzGxpwChaIoowLczRn9Zw46zNsj7cMIHuiYcRM7oeJU9NsiDNedtMXjwWL6R9+I9hIYePHPSke8eLWtjIL0x9ktijzyHL0sDcMsfhDpiD57JsH4x/pg=; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; SCL:1; SRVR:BLUPR0501MB2050; H:BLUPR0501MB2051.namprd05.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; LANG:en; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: juniper.net does not designate permitted sender hosts) spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 4d3d1efd-089a-4379-e0ee-08d543cef4c5 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Dec 2017 15:17:29.0632 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2050 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-15_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712150214 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Ben Campbell's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:17:36 -0000 QmVuLA0KDQpJIGFtIGNvbnZpbmNlZC4gSSB3aWxsIGNoYW5nZSB0aGUgZmlyc3QgTVVTVCBOT1Qg dG8gbG93ZXIgY2FzZSBpbiB2ZXJzaW9uIDEwLg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBSb24NCg0KDQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+ IEZyb206IEJlbiBDYW1wYmVsbCBbbWFpbHRvOmJlbkBub3N0cnVtLmNvbV0NCj4gU2VudDogVGh1 cnNkYXksIERlY2VtYmVyIDE0LCAyMDE3IDY6MjMgUE0NCj4gVG86IFJvbiBCb25pY2EgPHJib25p Y2FAanVuaXBlci5uZXQ+DQo+IENjOiBUaGUgSUVTRyA8aWVzZ0BpZXRmLm9yZz47IGdneEBnaWdp eC5uZXQ7IGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaW50YXJlYS0NCj4gcHJvYmVAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGludC1hcmVhQGll dGYub3JnOyBpbnRhcmVhLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBTdWJqZWN0OiBSZTogQmVuIENhbXBi ZWxsJ3MgTm8gT2JqZWN0aW9uIG9uIGRyYWZ0LWlldGYtaW50YXJlYS1wcm9iZS0wOToNCj4gKHdp dGggQ09NTUVOVCkNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gPiBPbiBEZWMgMTQsIDIwMTcsIGF0IDExOjAzIEFN LCBSb24gQm9uaWNhIDxyYm9uaWNhQGp1bmlwZXIubmV0PiB3cm90ZToNCj4gPg0KPiA+IEhpIEJl biwNCj4gPg0KPiA+IFRoYW5rcyBmb3IgdGhlIHJldmlldy4gQ29tbWVudHMgaW5saW5lLi4uLi4N Cj4gPg0KPiA+ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBSb24NCj4gPg0KPiA+PiAtLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFs IE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KPiA+PiBGcm9tOiBCZW4gQ2FtcGJlbGwgW21haWx0bzpiZW5Abm9zdHJ1 bS5jb21dDQo+ID4+IFNlbnQ6IFdlZG5lc2RheSwgRGVjZW1iZXIgMTMsIDIwMTcgMTA6MTEgUE0N Cj4gPj4gVG86IFRoZSBJRVNHIDxpZXNnQGlldGYub3JnPg0KPiA+PiBDYzogZHJhZnQtaWV0Zi1p bnRhcmVhLXByb2JlQGlldGYub3JnOyBMdWlnaSBJYW5ub25lIDxnZ3hAZ2lnaXgubmV0PjsNCj4g Pj4gaW50YXJlYS1jaGFpcnNAaWV0Zi5vcmc7IGdneEBnaWdpeC5uZXQ7IGludC1hcmVhQGlldGYu b3JnDQo+ID4+IFN1YmplY3Q6IEJlbiBDYW1wYmVsbCdzIE5vIE9iamVjdGlvbiBvbiBkcmFmdC1p ZXRmLWludGFyZWEtcHJvYmUtMDk6DQo+ID4+ICh3aXRoDQo+ID4+IENPTU1FTlQpDQo+IA0KPiBb 4oCmXQ0KPiANCj4gPiBbUkIgXQ0KPiA+IEkgcmVzcGVjdGZ1bGx5IGRpc2FncmVlLiBJZiBQUk9C RSBsZWFrcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbiBiZXR3ZWVuIHJvdXRpbmcNCj4gaW5zdGFuY2VzLCB3ZSB3aWxs IGhhdmUgY3JlYXRlZCBhIHJhdGhlciBzZXJpb3VzIHNlY3VyaXR5IHZ1bG5lcmFiaWxpdHkuIFNv LCB0aGlzDQo+IGlzIGEgc3RhbmRpbmctb24tb3VyLWhlYWRzLXNlcmlvdXMgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQu DQo+IA0KPiBJIGFncmVlIGl04oCZcyByZWFsbHkgaW1wb3J0YW50LCBidXQgaXTigJlzIHN0aWxs IGEgc3RhdGVtZW50IG9mIGZhY3QuIEl04oCZcyBub3Qgbm9ybWF0aXZlDQo+IGluIHRoZSBzZW5z ZSB0aGF0IGl0IGRvZXNu4oCZdCBvZmZlciBpbnN0cnVjdGlvbiB0byBpbXBsZW1lbnRlcnMgc28g bXVjaCBhcyBpdA0KPiBvZmZlcnMgYSByZWFzb24gZm9yIHRoZSBfbmV4dF8gcmVxdWlyZW1lbnQ6 DQo+IA0KPiAiVGhlcmVmb3JlLCB3aGVuIGEgbm9kZSByZWNlaXZlcyBhbiBJQ01QIEV4dGVuZGVk IEVjaG8gUmVxdWVzdCBhbmQgdGhlDQo+IHByb3h5IGludGVyZmFjZSBpcyBpbiBhIGRpZmZlcmVu dCBWUE4gdGhhbiB0aGUgcHJvYmVkIGludGVyZmFjZSwgdGhlIG5vZGUNCj4gTVVTVCByZXR1cm4g YW4gSUNNUCBFeHRlbmRlZCBFY2hvIFJlcGx5IHdpdGggZXJyb3IgY29kZSBlcXVhbCB0byAoMikg Tm8NCj4gU3VjaCBJbnRlcmZhY2UuIOKAnA0KPiANCj4gSXNu4oCZdCBfdGhhdF8gdGhlIHJlYWwg bm9ybWF0aXZlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50Pw0KPiANCj4gSW4gYW55IGNhc2UsIHRoaXMgaXMgbm90IGEg YmxvY2tpbmcgY29tbWVudCwgc28gZmVlbCBmcmVlIHRvIGlnbm9yZSBpdCA6LSkNCj4gDQo+IFRo YW5rcyENCj4gDQo+IEJlbi4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiA+DQo+ID4NCj4gPiBSb24N Cj4gPg0KPiA+DQoNCg== From nobody Fri Dec 15 07:49:38 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D42F01292D3 for ; 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(217.225.31.84) by kuehlewind.net with ESMTPSA (DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted, authenticated); 15 Dec 2017 16:42:52 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) From: "Mirja Kuehlewind (IETF)" In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:42:52 +0100 Cc: The IESG , "ggx@gigix.net" , "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <010C164E-6C4B-4043-8069-BFE3E9BD164E@kuehlewind.net> References: <151325449739.6152.11072339811800099297.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: Ron Bonica X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) X-PPP-Message-ID: <20171215154252.22402.68971@lvps83-169-45-111.dedicated.hosteurope.de> X-PPP-Vhost: kuehlewind.net Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] =?utf-8?q?Mirja_K=C3=BChlewind=27s_No_Objection_on_dr?= =?utf-8?q?aft-ietf-intarea-probe-09=3A_=28with_COMMENT=29?= X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 15:49:37 -0000 Ah, thanks! Missed that! > Am 14.12.2017 um 18:22 schrieb Ron Bonica : >=20 > Hi Mirja, >=20 > The bit lengths are in the RFC 4884 Object Header, along with = Class-num and c-type. >=20 > Ron >=20 >=20 >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind [mailto:ietf@kuehlewind.net] >> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 7:28 AM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org; Luigi Iannone ; >> intarea-chairs@ietf.org; ggx@gigix.net; int-area@ietf.org >> Subject: Mirja K=C3=BChlewind's No Objection on = draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: >> (with COMMENT) >>=20 >> Mirja K=C3=BChlewind has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection >>=20 >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all = email >> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this = introductory >> paragraph, however.) >>=20 >>=20 >> Please refer to https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- >> 3A__www.ietf.org_iesg_statement_discuss- >> 2Dcriteria.html&d=3DDwIDaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DFch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=3DwagsA7kXLCdoNtV0n85HcSoIuslPMmwR7Eo8Af >> __X3s&s=3DjXHhgSCYDvkd1s2Fm7b3SLmbqU8wul5-ZOOunwtOkgs&e=3D >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>=20 >>=20 >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps- >> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dintarea- >> 2Dprobe_&d=3DDwIDaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DFch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=3DwagsA7kXLCdoNtV0n85HcSoIuslPMmwR7Eo8Af >> __X3s&s=3Ddywj-fNrHXVcnSy65NvAMNEyI1au-yphW1XjT9rn1SM&e=3D >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> = ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>=20 >> I just had a very brief read of this document, but otherwise I'm = missing >> something, I believe the bit lengths of the fields of the Interface >> Identification Object are not specified. Is there maybe an image = missing? >>=20 >=20 From nobody Fri Dec 15 08:06:54 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 62788126D3F; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:06:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zKgSIZ_39YnR; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 08:06:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0b-00273201.pphosted.com [67.231.152.164]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher 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1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 3ad60716-2e80-49f0-1682-08d543d5d5e8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 15 Dec 2017 16:06:43.7395 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: bea78b3c-4cdb-4130-854a-1d193232e5f4 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BLUPR0501MB2052 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:, , definitions=2017-12-15_06:, , signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_spam_notspam policy=outbound_spam score=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1015 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 impostorscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.0.1-1711220000 definitions=main-1712150226 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org 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<151320205036.30085.4282694850670112463.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Warren Kumari Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:19:00 -0500 Message-ID: To: Ron Bonica Cc: The IESG , "draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org" , Luigi Iannone , "intarea-chairs@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 16:19:45 -0000 On Fri, Dec 15, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Ron Bonica wrote: > Hi Warren, > > Thanks for the review. Comments inline....... > > Happy Holidays, > Ron > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Warren Kumari [mailto:warren@kumari.net] >> Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2017 4:54 PM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org; Luigi Iannone ; >> intarea-chairs@ietf.org; ggx@gigix.net; int-area@ietf.org >> Subject: Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with >> DISCUSS and COMMENT) >> >> Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: Discuss >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all em= ail >> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introd= uctory >> paragraph, however.) >> >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> This is, I believe a minor DISCUSS, and I'll happily clear it once a com= mitment >> is made that it will be addressed / on the call (AKA, I'm not going to h= old up >> the document, but there isn't a "Comment" and "Very important comment" >> in the datatracker). >> >> Stefan Winter's OpsDir review contains: >> "* Introduction >> states "[...] if it appears in the IPv4 Address Resolution Protocol (ARP= ) table >> [RFC0826] or IPv6 Neighbor Cache [RFC4861]." "Appears" is a rather loose >> word, as entries in those tables can have multiple states. E.g. for IPv6= , which >> of the states DELAY, STALE, REACHABLE do you mean? All? Or only a subset= ? >> In IPv4, do you mean the "C" flag exclusively? Also, when the proxy oper= ates >> remotely (i.e. bases the reply on ARP/Neighbor Cache rather than >> ifOperStatus), does it actively ping the interface in question itself? I= f not, >> how does it handle an interface address which is not in the ARP/Neighbou= r >> table simply because the entry has timed out? The interface might be up = and >> active nontheless. In such a case, reporting "does not exist" is false." >> >> Ron Bonica's suggested solution in: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_mail= - >> 2Darchive_web_int- >> 2Darea_current_msg06136.html&d=3DDwICaQ&c=3DHAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBX >> eMK-ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=3DFch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=3D-FTEnwX0qAUuswd5C59LJixx92pB- >> lCmDysSzvMuD4E&s=3DeYX_7OsniE8LwWIAtu0fANguom6rE7Uvol5fgVcNQCU& >> e=3D works for me, but I do not see it in the version being discussed. T= his >> would make a substantive change to the document, I wanted to draw >> attention to it. >> > [RB ] > Stephan raised the following legitimate points: > > 1) The presence of an ARP TABLE / Neighbor Cache entry on the proxy node = is not sufficient evidence to prove that the probed interface is active > 2) The absence of an ARP Table / Neighbor Cache entry on the proxy node i= s not sufficient evidence to prove that the probed interface does not exist > > We addressed the second point by changing an error message. When the prox= y node probes the ARP Table / Neighbor Cache and finds nothing, it used to = return an ICMP Echo Reply with code equal to "No Such Interface". Now it re= turns an ICMP Echo Reply message with code equal to "No Such Table Entry". = This is more accurate. > > Frankly, we didn't address Stephan's first point. I think that we should = address it by making the ICMP Echo Reply Message report more accurately. Sp= ecifically, when the proxy node searches the ARP Table / Neighbor Cache and= finds an entry: > > - Set the code to 0 (No Error) > - Clear the A-bit, the 4-bit and the 6-bit > - return the state of the neighbor cache entry > > What do you think? > That sounds perfectly fine to me. Note that I have cleared my DISCUSS on the telechat - I was only holding it so that I got a chance to note on the call that these changes will require what could be argued is a substantive change to the document, and to make sure that, like me, the rest of the IESG was fine with that. The above sounds fine to me, and I (of course) trust y'all and Suresh to make whatever changes seem sensible. W > >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> In the version I'd initially reviewed there were codes for things like: = "E >> (Ethernet) - The E-bit is set if the A-bit is also set and IPv4 is runni= ng on the >> probed interface. Otherwise, the E-bit is clear." I was going to fuss a= nd ask >> what makes Ethernet special -- but, seeing as this is removed in the new= est >> version I have nothing to fuss about. :-) >> > --=20 I don't think the execution is relevant when it was obviously a bad idea in the first place. This is like putting rabid weasels in your pants, and later expressing regret at having chosen those particular rabid weasels and that pair of pants. ---maf From nobody Fri Dec 15 11:33:48 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 578DB126E3A; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:33:41 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ovwUL8NhAS8; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 11:33:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 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List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Dec 2017 22:28:06 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : PROBE: A Utility For Probing Interfaces Authors : Ron Bonica Reji Thomas Jen Linkova Chris Lenart Mohamed Boucadair Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-probe-10.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2017-12-15 Abstract: This document describes a network diagnostic tool called PROBE. PROBE is similar to PING, in that it can be used to query the status of a probed interface. It differs from PING in that it does not require bidirectional connectivity between the probing and probed interfaces. Instead, PROBE requires bidirectional connectivity between the probing interface and a proxy interface. The proxy interface can reside on the same node as the probed interface or it can reside on a node to which the probed interface is directly connected. This document updates RFC 4884. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-probe/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-10 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-probe-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-probe-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Fri Dec 15 14:32:28 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 218F21241FC; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:32:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=juniper.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OJreh4nVHlss; Fri, 15 Dec 2017 14:32:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com (mx0a-00273201.pphosted.com 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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Dec 2017 20:13:17 -0000 Hi Ron, > Hi Benoit, > > Thanks for the review. > > AFAICS, RFC 4560 gives the user a way to initiate legacy PING/TRACEROUTE/LOOKUP remotely, from a management station. But, are still talking about legacy PING/TRACEROUTE/LOOKUP. All of their shortcomings are still evident when initiated remotely. For example, there is no way to PING an unnumbered interface with RFC 4560. ok. > > Are you sure that the reference to RFC 6812 is correct? Yes. > I don't see how that RFC is related. > > I'm not qualified to comment on whether OWAMP IPR claims apply. Regards , Benoit > > Ron > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com] >> Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2017 9:25 AM >> To: The IESG >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe@ietf.org; Luigi Iannone ; >> intarea-chairs@ietf.org; ggx@gigix.net; int-area@ietf.org >> Subject: Benoit Claise's No Objection on draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: (with >> COMMENT) >> >> Benoit Claise has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-intarea-probe-09: No Objection >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email >> addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory >> paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- >> 3A__www.ietf.org_iesg_statement_discuss- >> 2Dcriteria.html&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=AynMJ1Dzf- >> NhKyZnImzuXC5wMSHzVpAgxNc6oY_kJms&s=WfTrBgbi3gm4XVJHaelwKLXs >> qZgCA9TU1b7kBLY4rug&e= >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- >> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dintarea- >> 2Dprobe_&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=AynMJ1Dzf- >> NhKyZnImzuXC5wMSHzVpAgxNc6oY_kJms&s=7JAC48ovLm_D080mPs2ZiFnfc >> 9YJrCko88elATpBbqk&e= >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> No objection to the publication of this document. However, some >> comments. >> >> So basically you specify the same functionality as remote ping MIB in RFC4560 >> where >> - probing interface = SNMP manager >> - proxy interface = SNMP agent >> - probed agent = destination >> Right? So any connection with RFC4560? >> >> I guess this mechanism is a similar functionality as RFC 6812, where >> - proxy agent = sender >> - responder = destination >> ... even the technology is not based on the ICMP extended echo As such I >> believe that the RFC 6812 IPR applies here as well. >> However, I'm not the one to make the call. So I will forward to the >> appropriate persons. >> >> Potentially the OWAMP IPRs apply as well. >> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https- >> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_ipr_search_-3Fsubmit-3Ddraft-26id-3Ddraft- >> 2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dowdp&d=DwICaQ&c=HAkYuh63rsuhr6Scbfh0UjBXeMK- >> ndb3voDTXcWzoCI&r=Fch9FQ82sir-BoLx84hKuKwl- >> AWF2EfpHcAwrDThKP8&m=AynMJ1Dzf- >> NhKyZnImzuXC5wMSHzVpAgxNc6oY_kJms&s=6AQ1PoqsbVEWizOFnRjyUCN >> g5vXkexXALSuBika7XfE&e= >> From nobody Thu Dec 21 10:49:46 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 86DAF126BF7 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:49:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kA-EJroh-wzx for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x230.google.com (mail-qk0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::230]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AA596124BE8 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:49:43 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id r184so24441409qke.8 for ; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:49:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=qlmP3GVCAP26+e3UKhhgEXOBgbkOiIZF/ADLQ6igvJA=; b=I7FKFzgf9bLtqUj71oqJravqGUZVwIfonzzhFw4JOOrQE5gjt+o1USOVDRqcnWcQu5 hA84uRNqfLfnblKGosH9Bgw6FwkKCCGnU1jO5yWtIOSZtrBpEEeui4lJQDIoywKenmX0 7ivUE/X9vps4RPJIeW67FBjdQp13jEiFMaUgoxLSKPrtwvNFj4VzmpTxzYAE+X0uDfMi F8bW4jlzqVSBk5kRnuyScte4sW7b3WNJ+TdQGeULas9vIStdei8nTM6tFUSYlFx+raaO 1HhCtB2j1lDkVkrF1bXj7RS/zVhdl65BU+blueYi58Anb5kZA4scVf29j5FYXHwRAJn/ 4dkA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=qlmP3GVCAP26+e3UKhhgEXOBgbkOiIZF/ADLQ6igvJA=; b=FueC9BnVl/cApPCJI1lsQm5jDJaBOswpLiZde50WTMCBy1HjU5DZUv0Gh/OjClrnzc OuYsihKz59Y+MkedNl+fySHzfug7EqKYt1zjaIgvd8d0dJ24mnisfUJW5BPlBGid3+j8 EtuntewUX9oIwh532cKlIqz8jaNhMERo502BLcQ/f6Jh1C74TLArn3H43s8yrQAmfNQ/ CV5jCsFNOzrzTxe3eQLh+6zchF3FBdz3LfCwwAlMywY/EiqdXIpy00oktukkQlevmabh Uwpcq9/IIgWQv4IGMzwcPVmjuo9m/cmVdPY3ZNsgChb2GxGQw7UM4B5rmg1ST189PT2O OLpg== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mKePowH107b5zj0lSJ3C73RivPPAfW3qhkmwRUYjbqY06qjdAlI AiKGSSrkpOXJlxdxQcRcPlBKzujyDPuP4uzHVmu74Q== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBou7Ic0ul+c3tfFjWa7Jd+vGXkA/bol+oOSj5zetsUbIE8OVRs0i30fPahdECCT5HzdvifzGKrt5SCQTxlcyW5o= X-Received: by 10.55.0.143 with SMTP id t15mr5417158qkg.225.1513882182635; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:49:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.43.121 with HTTP; Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:49:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <151388046073.12945.8976523026906607554.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 10:49:42 -0800 Message-ID: To: int-area@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-herbert-ila-ilamp-00.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Dec 2017 18:49:45 -0000 Hello, I have posted a new draft for ILA Mapping Protocol. Tom ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Thu, Dec 21, 2017 at 10:21 AM Subject: New Version Notification for draft-herbert-ila-ilamp-00.txt To: Tom Herbert A new version of I-D, draft-herbert-ila-ilamp-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Tom Herbert and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-herbert-ila-ilamp Revision: 00 Title: Identifier Locator Addressing Mapping Protocol Document date: 2017-12-21 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 20 URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-herbert-ila-ilamp-00.txt Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-herbert-ila-ilamp/ Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-herbert-ila-ilamp-00 Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-herbert-ila-ilamp-00 Abstract: Identifier-locator protocols rely on a mapping system that is able to map identifiers to locators. ILA nodes that perform ILA translations need to access the mapping system via a protocol. This document specifies the ILA Mapping Protocol that is used by ILA forwarding nodes and hosts to populate and maintain a cache of ILA mappings. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat From nobody Fri Dec 22 03:46:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5FFA120227; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 03:46:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.91 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.91 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.01, WEIRD_PORT=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LeiFFbuJP_jY; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 03:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from smtprelay.restena.lu (smtprelay.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1::62]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8EDA5124239; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 03:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from aragorn.restena.lu (aragorn.restena.lu [IPv6:2001:a18:1:8::155]) by smtprelay.restena.lu (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 67703403BF; Fri, 22 Dec 2017 12:46:03 +0100 (CET) To: Ron Bonica , "ops-dir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" References: <151239611143.6427.18267553739051828038@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Stefan Winter Openpgp: id=AD3091F3AB24E05F4F722C03C0DE6A358A39DC66; url=http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=get&search=0xC0DE6A358A39DC66 Message-ID: <0595b042-f211-cd65-69f5-5e91d06506f5@restena.lu> Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 12:46:03 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="0RniLT5xnwkzvrHWJMZ49tukLROEyT2Dk" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Int-area] [OPS-DIR] Opsdir telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 11:46:09 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --0RniLT5xnwkzvrHWJMZ49tukLROEyT2Dk Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="pmKknqWcW1BD5g9hrtpWv89zIuxX21zXs"; protected-headers="v1" From: Stefan Winter To: Ron Bonica , "ops-dir@ietf.org" Cc: "draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org" , "int-area@ietf.org" , "ietf@ietf.org" Message-ID: <0595b042-f211-cd65-69f5-5e91d06506f5@restena.lu> Subject: Re: [OPS-DIR] Opsdir telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 References: <151239611143.6427.18267553739051828038@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: --pmKknqWcW1BD5g9hrtpWv89zIuxX21zXs Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------5769B229E1021D31A6FEF2E5" Content-Language: lb-LU This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------5769B229E1021D31A6FEF2E5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, I've taken a look at -10 now. All of my nittry-gritty has cleared. The one thing I'm still not sure about the /wording/ is the L-bit question. With your explanations below, I think I now get the intent of the L-bit and understand its usefulness. The text I see in -10 still doesn't seem to be in line with those explanations. Maybe it's just English grammar issues, feel free to tell me if I'm on the wrong side of the language barrier. * I understood your explanations to mean: with the L-Bit, the probING interface directs the PROXY interface: - L-Bit set: probing interface requests that proxy interface only considers the internal state of (its own) probED interface - L-Bit not set: probING interface instructs PROXY interface to consult ARP/NC to infer the state of probED interface It is then a simple corollary that clearing the L-bit only makes sense when probing by address; because that's the only identifier that is contained in the ARP / NC databases. But when I read chapter 2 / ICMP fields: L bit text: "The L-bit is set if the probed interface resides on the proxy node. The L-bit is clear if the probed interface is directly connected to the proxy node." And this is where I difficulties. The relationship between proxy and prob= ed is either "resides-on" or "connected-to". So the probING device does a= lmost never have a degree of freedom when populating the L-bit. The only = opportunity when it can make a choice is if it is identifying the probed = interface by-address, and the address exists both on the proxy node and o= n a link on a directly connected node. Then, and only then, the L-Bit act= ually signals "I mean the remote one / I mean the local one". In all othe= r cases, the L-Bit is superfluous as its set/notset state is dictated by = the network architecture. This is, ultimately, what the quoted text above says - but it's written i= n a back-to-front way IMHO; it doesn't tell an implementer what to /do/ w= ith the L-bit, but rather where it's value came from. =C2=A0 With my interpretation of the intent, a text which fits much more natural= ly to me would be along the lines of: "If the L-bit is set, the proxy interface must infer the most adequate re= ply from its internal state; if it is not set, the proxy interface must c= onsult the ARP and/or Neighbor Cache databases for the probed interface a= ddress to determine its state." If I'm still totally besides the point, I'm prepared to give up and let g= o on this point :-) The only other significant point I'd like some more discussion on is: "As you point out, the node upon which the proxy interface resides cannot= infer that an interface is active because it appears in the ARP Table / = Neighbor Cache. Likewise, the node upon which the proxy interface resides= cannot infer that an interface does not exist because it does not appea= r in the ARP Table / Neighbor Cache. So, I recommend that we change the procedure as follows: - Search ARP Table / Neighbor Cache for the address that appear in the In= terface Identification Object. - If no entry is found, send a reply stating No Such ARP / NC Entry (This= is a new error code) - If an entry is found, send a reply with error code equal to 0 and the A= , F, and S flags all clear Does this work for you?" That's much better than before! It now comes out clearer that any reply t= hat's given does not have certainty ("No such Entry" !=3D "doesn't exist"= ; "No error" !=3D "Interface active right now". That reply has a low oper= ational value though (it had that before the wording change already). I.e= =2E I sent a PROBE to find out if address X is alive and kicking, but the= reply is "maybe" because old entries in ARP/NC might not reflect current= reality. I wouldn't trust PROBE's results if operating in cleared-L-Bit = mode (and, ultimately, wouldn't care to use it at all in many circumstanc= es). I believe the draft could do more to get actual, fresh data from directly= connected probed interfaces: it could allow the proxy interface to execu= te a PING of its own towards the address to get an /actual, real-time/ st= atus. That's an information I would trust much more than merely looking a= t ARP/NC. Text-wise, it's simple to retrofit this: just before the ARP/NC lookup in= troduce a MAY execute PING4/6 which updates the DB if active. Of course, = this does generate extra traffic, and it's a question if this is desirabl= e. IMHO, the freshness of the resulting data warrants it.=20 It might make sense to add - a Request flag "Active Probing" (probing node allows proxy node to acti= vely reach out to probed interface) - a Reply flag "Real-Time" (proxy interface signals that it has fresh dat= a; arguably one could then also set the "A" flag as the interface is then= known to be active) I realise I'm feature-creeping here. Do what you like with it :-) Greetings, Stefan > Stephan, > > Thanks for the thoughtful review. Responses inline. > > Rpn > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: ietf [mailto:ietf-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Stefan Winter >> Sent: Monday, December 4, 2017 9:02 AM >> To: ops-dir@ietf.org >> Cc: draft-ietf-intarea-probe.all@ietf.org; int-area@ietf.org; ietf@iet= f.org >> Subject: Opsdir telechat review of draft-ietf-intarea-probe-07 >> >> Reviewer: Stefan Winter >> Review result: Has Issues >> >> Issues: >> >> * Introduction >> states "[...] if it appears in the IPv4 Address Resolution Protocol (A= RP) table >> [RFC0826] or IPv6 Neighbor Cache [RFC4861]." "Appears" is a rather loo= se >> word, as entries in those tables can have multiple states. E.g. for IP= v6, which >> of the states DELAY, STALE, REACHABLE do you mean? All? Or only a subs= et? >> In IPv4, do you mean the "C" flag exclusively? Also, when the proxy op= erates >> remotely (i.e. bases the reply on ARP/Neighbor Cache rather than >> ifOperStatus), does it actively ping the interface in question itself?= If not, >> how does it handle an interface address which is not in the ARP/Neighb= our >> table simply because the entry has timed out? The interface might be u= p and >> active nontheless. In such a case, reporting "does not exist" is false= =2E > > [RB ]=20 > If the L-bit is clear, the proxy interface does not ping the probed int= erface. Instead, the node upon which the proxy interface resides executes= the following procedure: > > - Search ARP Table / Neighbor Cache for the address that appear in the = Interface Identification Object. > - If no entry is found, send a reply stating No Such Interface > - If an entry is found, send a reply stating that the interface is acti= ve > > As you point out, the node upon which the proxy interface resides canno= t infer that an interface is active because it appears in the ARP Table /= Neighbor Cache. Likewise, the node upon which the proxy interface reside= s cannot infer that an interface does not exist because it does not appe= ar in the ARP Table / Neighbor Cache. > > So, I recommend that we change the procedure as follows: > > - Search ARP Table / Neighbor Cache for the address that appear in the = Interface Identification Object. > - If no entry is found, send a reply stating No Such ARP / NC Entry (Th= is is a new error code) > - If an entry is found, send a reply with error code equal to 0 and the= A, F, and S flags all clear > > Does this work for you? > >> * Request -> L-Bit. >> I don't get it. The Request part of the spec is used by the probING no= de. It >> always sends the request to a proxy node. The proxy node then is the o= ne to >> figure out by local state if the interface that is to be probed is loc= al to itself, or >> on a link. > [RB ]=20 > Sometimes, this is not possible. For example, assume that a router has = interfaces ge-0/0/0.0 and ge-0/0/1.0. The local side of ge-0/0/0.0 had th= e IPv6 link local address fe80::dead:beef. The remote side of the interfa= ce ge-0/0/1.0 has the same IPv6 link local address. > > The user can set or clear the L-bit to indicate which interface is bein= g probed. Without the L-but, PROBE would return an error (Multiple Interf= aces Satisfy Query). > > [RB ] > Now the question is of course: what purpose does setting the L-= Bit >> on the *request* serve? The probed interface either is local to the pr= oxy >> node or it's not; no amount of flipping bits changes the reality. I ca= n see how >> this L-bit information could be set in a *Response* as an information >> element. But that's not what the document says; > [RB ]=20 > See above > > the document actually >> states two contradictory things a) L (local) - The L-bit is set if the= probed >> interface resides on >> the probed node. The L-bit is clear if the probed interface is >> directly connected to the probed node >> [doesn't make sense, see above] > [RB ]=20 > > How are these contradictory? The user sets the L-bit if the proxy and p= robed interfaces are on the same node. The user clears the L-bit of the p= roxy interface is on a node that is directly connected to the probed inte= rface? > >> b) If the L-bit is set, the Interface Identification Object identifies= >> the probed interface by name, index or address. It the L-bit is >> clear, the Interface Identification Object identifies the probed >> interface by address. >> [ makes more sense, but conflicts with previous statement]=20 > [RB ]=20 > > I don't see the contradiction. If you are querying a non-local interfac= e, you are going to search the ARP Table / Neighbor Cache. So, you need t= o query by address. You don't know the remote interface name or interface= index. > > The latter >> formulation be also begs the questions a) why would one ever clear the= L-Bit; >> identifying an interface by address is also possible when it's set, so= setting >> the L-bit is fit for all situations envisaged and provides a true supe= rset of >> functionality that L-Bit cleared offers; b) what do you mean with "nam= e, >> index **or** address". Is that an exclusive OR, or any subset of the t= hree, or >> can they all three be set? Later text suggests that each Interface >> Identification Object can carry only one of the three (XOR), but previ= ous text >> suggests that two such Objects might be required for unique idenficiat= ion. So >> in the end either one or two can be used to identify an object, but no= t all >> three? That's totally fine, but could be made more obvious. I also sug= gest to >> ditch the L-Bit and operate in a mode as if the L-Bit was always set. = It adds no >> value. I also contemplate later in the text that L-Bit set is default-= on while L- >> Bit clear is default off already. > [RB ]=20 > I'm not sure that I follow this paragraph > >> * Response (chapter 3) >> The choice of flag names is not very intuitive. Why is IPv4 "F" and IP= v6 "S"? I >> understand that those are the first letters of the words FOUR and SIX = in >> English. But maybe the flags could actually be named "4" and "6". Thos= e are >> ASCII characters like any other, and have a more direct recognition by= >> humans (e.g. when the flags are displayed in protocol decoders). >> > [RB ]=20 > Fair enough. I will change them to 4-bit and 6-bit > >> Chapter 4, authorisation: >> "not explicitly authorized for the incoming ICMP Extended Echo Request= L-bit >> setting" I don't understand why the L-bit is a major decision point fo= r >> authorisation checks. It is in principle superfluous anyway as above, = and then >> one is expecting that policy decisions of sorts "this probing address = is allowed >> ask for interfaces based on properties different from the address, but= this >> other node is only allowed to operate on address"? The use case for th= at >> escapes me; and also, it can be achieved with "define enabled query ty= pes" >> as per Security Considerations. > [RB ]=20 > This objection may be cleared up as a side effect of clearing the previ= ous objection > >> * Security Considerations >> "For example, a malicious party can use PROBE to discover interface na= mes." >> This would be discovery by brute forcing the interface name space? Bec= ause >> the reply doesn't give away the name when the request was via address = - >> right? It would be good to make clear that this discovery has to happe= n as a >> hit-and-miss of guessed names rather than getting an enumeration on th= e >> silver platter. >> OTOH, there are many well-known naming conventions for interfaces and = it's >> more like a dictionary attack rather than simple brute-force. > [RB ]=20 > It is a dictionary attack using a very small dictionary ;-) > > My point wasn't so much to explain how an attacker might discover inter= face names, but to warn that it is possible. > >> Nits: >> * Chapter 2, Page 4, first bullet of the "ICMP fields" enumeration. Th= e value >> is TTTT0 (four T's) but you then ask IANA to register things with only= TTTx >> (three T's). The fourth T is superfluous. > [RB ]=20 > Good catch. Fixed in the next version. > > --=20 Stefan WINTER Ingenieur de Recherche Fondation RESTENA - R=C3=A9seau T=C3=A9l=C3=A9informatique de l'Education= Nationale et de la Recherche 2, avenue de l'Universit=C3=A9 L-4365 Esch-sur-Alzette Tel: +352 424409 1 Fax: +352 422473 PGP key updated to 4096 Bit RSA - I will encrypt all mails if the recipie= nt's key is known to me http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=3Dget&search=3D0xC0DE6A358A39DC66 --------------5769B229E1021D31A6FEF2E5 Content-Type: application/pgp-keys; name="0x8A39DC66.asc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="0x8A39DC66.asc" -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK----- Version: GnuPG v2 mQINBFIplEwBEADTSz+DS8nio+RSvfSLLfaOnCGi1nqpn8Pb1laVUyEvnAAzZ5je miS88GxfiDH6hUGlWzcaW0hCfUHGiohr485adbjxRksPngWgAt/1bRxpifsW3zOb Fjgog01WWQV5Sihlwc4zr8zvYbFA5BJZ6YdkR9C5J015riv5OS30WTjA65SSXgYr b7zJWPwmegTFwE093uBFvC39waz3xYpVu5j87nO6w2MVQt/8sY2/2BFPEq+xfOaj 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--------------5769B229E1021D31A6FEF2E5-- --pmKknqWcW1BD5g9hrtpWv89zIuxX21zXs-- --0RniLT5xnwkzvrHWJMZ49tukLROEyT2Dk Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v2 iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJaPPB7AAoJEMDeajWKOdxmz2UP/j4lCDVN8VHjmsQ/I29vj/Ak EJBVSPaLkCLW++7nW0kBc3HWF7KcXofbNX3pBMSyVhKTIW97cLSFOaye9wGiNXhG PbHMG8vwhmEeGx/nTniEBmBCyp2mj58Q3pTvtcH1RYEPjD1WYrA77pv+2q4jXTUN L9jQXszQN6FWEMl+y3a8vn+UJmf97DDrbn2ZIbLC+GJPmedx+jme74ZcvydDmDqi 7jikvg82VRb+fWAyzoaYG+NZgkpQC0MkBiafGGPIDzYywQizs1aUP5ZNmXJCX2QR RYQP/tAqFZVP4Oe8fibUKF2xl+QMo6jhYjciHSIN3lU0oPDddfhB7+oCgRCMahPj sFyzM0oVZk8V3lnX2E+jQH7mXJFHfqN02G8OBeLzsvrYEIyy/ePxACJ/ZTyFS48t wOxu33EirmftCvKvIz/OnHGTlFM0OAq1d7K5L4z6RYVgJ6ThdHVC/XU9kxg2v2xo BdjvM5wv55pDf+XzwOAethOViNA1IWnEPOtrDQpTozPKyuOeJKOZZqjXKHLh876f 2xWgFvGvACeoeS5NLT1TYuc5TFpS2UEAKEqHh4rs45YiEZhzQbKkYK0Bn8W27+pM 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2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Dec 2017 16:30:19 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Wassim Haddad, a Chair of the intarea working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Internet Area Working Group Area Name: Internet Area Session Requester: Wassim Haddad Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1.5 Hours Number of Attendees: 80 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: t2trg lisp saag dhc 6lo v6ops 6man 6tisch lpwan Second Priority: softwire sunset4 tsvwg dnsop netconf nfvrg People who must be present: Wassim Haddad Suresh Krishnan Juan Carlos Zuniga Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Wed Dec 27 10:28:18 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost 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int-area@ietf.org Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC88812426E; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:07:42 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: int-area@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.68.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <151466086274.3991.14165848796156583684@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:07:42 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:07:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : Generic UDP Encapsulation Authors : Tom Herbert Lucy Yong Osama Zia Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2017-12-30 Abstract: This specification describes Generic UDP Encapsulation (GUE), which is a scheme for using UDP to encapsulate packets of different IP protocols for transport across layer 3 networks. By encapsulating packets in UDP, specialized capabilities in networking hardware for efficient handling of UDP packets can be leveraged. GUE specifies basic encapsulation methods upon which higher level constructs, such as tunnels and overlay networks for network virtualization, can be constructed. GUE is extensible by allowing optional data fields as part of the encapsulation, and is generic in that it can encapsulate packets of various IP protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-gue/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Dec 30 11:14:53 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: int-area@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFCD912706D for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:14:52 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VV0F__PyGuxo for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:14:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-qk0-x232.google.com (mail-qk0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400d:c09::232]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03E3712426E for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:14:50 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-qk0-x232.google.com with SMTP id x7so38599284qkb.0 for ; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:14:50 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=herbertland-com.20150623.gappssmtp.com; s=20150623; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=79m5CA9+ujtk+aqgW50XNUpzFUmLTYm1mAbky/dzRhU=; b=ewg28+ITJHepIwbqoKAeYFd/zWPZZQ6et7MxG9C18ULNWkAgOYsmfe4XYJL4FjDEbW W+AbwPZb5fPj64jwyR+AplKrQ9wVYKMQuXyfWnELZkXVI00iZAHJZjZM6nIwIHPGR7+T zLv7QqSdpQEHgmJ3AWNfzv3PMNRTTxJ7R4rMUDhsl6miiDOkHp6U6tti7L8NQnD+7Mg7 FCVvNGoYi6RqbIJ/fMU8YvBMFbuG4xjD3YNCt5t9P2IZdFJ50IBSjxIBY02P5uKA2ZI1 c+Aq8YEyEm7dx1gmRup/owqTMoGsAqVGySQ+8y9kgqLyODoX0lPJrGBS6uSHj9DaCxRd BiwA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=79m5CA9+ujtk+aqgW50XNUpzFUmLTYm1mAbky/dzRhU=; b=SpCjxkUqfl/wdO9NySaOERs9axtQmcEZGN88m1461FssK8nfhbO31QyMfBoR767HVG UXcIyJZNJgrPpPTFX9kJCKKgxkit8pj0sCJveFn+yaicXH/ePob0xXmI36Te2V5xt0wX wLicPol7zgvIgbwdWoRqy+r+ez3CQ/q604itJB7sMPnYFuzt+6QT6Iz9LTbqg6RNK3/q CItUMnhr9ITdFLSeKclI0FbT4LfaYV7VF/8G8+cBIk6sca4zArRbLF/Z2IRIHrt8iA3T L1LX2WHko1aGR95U++PjQRFnPCZ3cxUViVgUj5mzcBrL69Nd8bfujuhwj9G9RAb7hHC8 l32A== X-Gm-Message-State: AKGB3mJAailLrPTJuxE7rI2txYjB58KRh8FwSLF/BeLbZ6QYxeMYGHo3 ze4f2Bkjbi6Nx+OR6Su4/nc8hNRna4o02Yi8tjGlqA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACJfBovIR58Ui/RCa2dDyhkaT8hQWRva/ELzm4czUM0BzTxHaAz7JPgQd5lx+/8W27tpyzzVoH6jkkzZlxkDgPtY+yc= X-Received: by 10.55.195.82 with SMTP id a79mr41480178qkj.189.1514661289666; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:14:49 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.200.43.121 with HTTP; Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:14:49 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <151466086274.3991.14165848796156583684@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <151466086274.3991.14165848796156583684@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tom Herbert Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 11:14:49 -0800 Message-ID: To: int-area@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [Int-area] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05.txt X-BeenThere: int-area@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF Internet Area Mailing List List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Dec 2017 19:14:53 -0000 Hello, I posted an update to the GUE draft. The major change is to rename GUE "version" field to be GUE "variant" field in order to reflect the fact that this field can be used to indicate either version or an alternate form of a version. This is to address Joe Touch's concern that increasing version numbers imply succession of earlier forms of a protocol. Happy New Year! Tom ---------- Forwarded message ---------- From: Date: Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 11:07 AM Subject: [Int-area] I-D Action: draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05.txt To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: int-area@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Internet Area Working Group WG of the IETF. Title : Generic UDP Encapsulation Authors : Tom Herbert Lucy Yong Osama Zia Filename : draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2017-12-30 Abstract: This specification describes Generic UDP Encapsulation (GUE), which is a scheme for using UDP to encapsulate packets of different IP protocols for transport across layer 3 networks. By encapsulating packets in UDP, specialized capabilities in networking hardware for efficient handling of UDP packets can be leveraged. GUE specifies basic encapsulation methods upon which higher level constructs, such as tunnels and overlay networks for network virtualization, can be constructed. GUE is extensible by allowing optional data fields as part of the encapsulation, and is generic in that it can encapsulate packets of various IP protocols. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-intarea-gue/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-intarea-gue-05 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ Int-area mailing list Int-area@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area