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From: Dave Thaler <dthaler@microsoft.com>
To: "int-dir@ietf.org" <int-dir@ietf.org>, "int-ads@tools.ietf.org" <int-ads@tools.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: INT Dir review: draft-ietf-lwig-ikev2-minimal-03
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Subject: [Int-dir] INT Dir review: draft-ietf-lwig-ikev2-minimal-03
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Hi,


I am an assigned INT directorate reviewer for draft-ietf-lwig-ikev2-minimal=
-03.

These comments were written primarily for the benefit of the Internet

Area Directors.  Document editors and shepherd(s) should treat these

comments just like they would treat comments from any other IETF

contributors and resolve them along with any other Last Call comments

that have been received. For more details on the INT Directorate,

see http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate.html.



A marked up copy with my comments in line is at
http://research.microsoft.com/~dthaler/draft-ietf-lwig-ikev2-minimal-03.pdf



Possibly technical:

1)      Page 5 discusses cryptographic algorithms but does not state, nor r=
eference

any other document that states, what algorithm(s) are mandatory to

implement in a minimal implementation.  Without that, implementations

may not interoperate.

2)      Page 6 talks about agreeing on a PRF.   But it does not state, nor =
reference

anywhere else that states, how such is agreed upon or what is mandatory

to implement.

3)      I am not familiar with IKEv2 protocol details, but the second parag=
raph

of section 2.1 implies that only initiators send requests, and only

responders send responses, and only requests are retransmitted.  However,

much of the rest of the document, including parts of section 2.1, imply

that initiators (especially minimal implementations of an initiator)

receive requests such as CREATE_CHILD_SA, etc.   This contradiction

should be addressed.

4)      Several places talk about what a "typical" minimal implementation w=
ould

do, or what a minimal implementation would "usually" do.  However, it's

not clear what the alternative(s) are.  Since an implementation of this dra=
ft

is not RFC 7296 compliant, it's unclear whether there are other atypical

things that are also non-compliant but legal in this document, or whether

the only alternatives are to do exactly what RFC 7296 says.

5)      The security considerations section needs work.  Since this documen=
t

removes functionality that is mandatory in RFC 7296, it needs to discuss

the considerations resulting from lacking that support.  For example, if

that support was there to close security holes, then this document would

introduce new security vulnerabilities, or at least narrow the cases where

this is safe to use.  E.g., is a minimal implementation lacking that other

functionality dangerous to put on the public Internet?  Why or why not?


Editorial:

6)      Question: What if a doc comes along that Updates RFC 7296?   Is suc=
h a doc

expected to Update this document too or not?  How do we ensure that such

authors are aware of this document since this one doesn't Update RFC 7296

itself?

7)      The document needs a number of English grammar fixes throughout.

I propose editorial fixes using tracked changes in place in the PDF

above for most such cases where I could tell what was intended.
There were a number of cases where I could not tell what the authors
intended though, and so called those out with comments.

8)      A number of terms are used without definition or reference, at leas=
t

before they're used.  I've called out a number of such cases in the marked

up copy.  Examples include IKE_SA_INIT in section 1, "home area network

server" in section 1.1, "child SA" in section 2.1, etc.  If a reader is exp=
ected

to know these terms before reading this document, it would be good for

the Introduction to say what is expected pre-reading.   Another example

is the use of the term "server" which is unclear as to whether it's

synonymous with "responder", since the term "server" is undefined.

If they are synonymous, it would be better to use consistent terminology.

9)      [IPSECARCH] is cited on Page 12 but is not in the references sectio=
n.

Dave

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">I am an assigned INT directorate reviewer for dra=
ft-ietf-lwig-ikev2-minimal-03.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">These comments were written primarily for the ben=
efit of the Internet
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Area Directors.&nbsp; Document editors and shephe=
rd(s) should treat these<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">comments just like they would treat comments from=
 any other IETF<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">contributors and resolve them along with any othe=
r Last Call comments<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">that have been received. For more details on the =
INT Directorate,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">see <a href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directora=
te.html">http://www.ietf.org/iesg/directorate.html</a>.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">A marked up copy with my comments in line is at<o=
:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://research.microsoft.com/~dthaler/dr=
aft-ietf-lwig-ikev2-minimal-03.pdf">http://research.microsoft.com/~dthaler/=
draft-ietf-lwig-ikev2-minimal-03.pdf</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText">Possibly technical:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">1)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Page 5 discusses cryptographic algorithms but does =
not state, nor reference<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">any other document tha=
t states, what algorithm(s) are mandatory to<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">implement in a minimal=
 implementation.&nbsp; Without that, implementations<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">may not interoperate.<=
o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">2)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Page 6 talks about agreeing on a PRF.&nbsp;&nbsp; B=
ut it does not state, nor reference<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">anywhere else that sta=
tes, how such is agreed upon or what is mandatory<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">to implement.<o:p></o:=
p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">3)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>I am not familiar with IKEv2 protocol details, but =
the second paragraph<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">of section 2.1 implies that only initiators s=
end requests, and only
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">responders send responses, and only requests =
are retransmitted.&nbsp; However,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">much of the rest of the document, including p=
arts of section 2.1, imply<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">that initiators (especially minimal implement=
ations of an initiator)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">receive requests such as CREATE_CHILD_SA, etc=
.&nbsp;&nbsp; This contradiction<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">should be addressed.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">4)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Several places talk about what a &#8220;typical&#82=
21; minimal implementation would<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">do, or what a minimal implementation would &#=
8220;usually&#8221; do.&nbsp; However, it&#8217;s<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">not clear what the alternative(s) are.&nbsp; =
Since an implementation of this draft<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">is not RFC 7296 compliant, it&#8217;s unclear=
 whether there are other atypical<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">things that are also non-compliant but legal =
in this document, or whether<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">the only alternatives are to do exactly what =
RFC 7296 says.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">5)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>The security considerations section needs work.&nbs=
p; Since this document
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">removes functionality that is mandatory in RF=
C 7296, it needs to discuss
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">the considerations resulting from lacking tha=
t support.&nbsp; For example, if
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">that support was there to close security hole=
s, then this document would
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">introduce new security vulnerabilities, or at=
 least narrow the cases where<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">this is safe to use.&nbsp; E.g., is a minimal=
 implementation lacking that other<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">functionality dangerous to put on the public =
Internet?&nbsp; Why or why not?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Editorial:<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">6)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>Question: What if a doc comes along that Updates RF=
C 7296?&nbsp;&nbsp; Is such a doc<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">expected to Update this document too or not?&=
nbsp; How do we ensure that such
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">authors are aware of this document since this=
 one doesn&#8217;t Update RFC 7296<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">itself?<span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in;text-indent:-.25in;mso-=
list:l1 level1 lfo5">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">7)<span style=3D"font:=
7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>The document needs a number of English grammar fixe=
s throughout.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">I propose editorial fi=
xes using tracked changes in place in the PDF
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoPlainText" style=3D"margin-left:.5in">above for most such ca=
ses where I could tell what was intended.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">There were a number of ca=
ses where I could not tell what the authors<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"text-indent:.5in">intended though, and so c=
alled those out with comments.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">8)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>A number of terms are used without definition or re=
ference, at least<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">before they&#8217;re used.&nbsp; I&#8217;ve c=
alled out a number of such cases in the marked<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">up copy.&nbsp; Examples include IKE_SA_INIT i=
n section 1, &#8220;home area network<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">server&#8221; in section 1.1, &#8220;child SA=
&#8221; in section 2.1, etc.&nbsp; If a reader is expected<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">to know these terms before reading this docum=
ent, it would be good for<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">the Introduction to say what is expected pre-=
reading.&nbsp;&nbsp; Another example<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">is the use of the term &#8220;server&#8221; w=
hich is unclear as to whether it&#8217;s<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">synonymous with &#8220;responder&#8221;, sinc=
e the term &#8220;server&#8221; is undefined.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph">If they are synonymous, it would be better to=
 use consistent terminology.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo5"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">9)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>[IPSECARCH] is cited on Page 12 but is not in the r=
eferences section.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dave<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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