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From: Tal Mizrahi <talmi@marvell.com>
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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: "ioam@ietf.org" <ioam@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group
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Cc: "Carlos Pignataro \(cpignata\)" <cpignata@cisco.com>, Tal Mizrahi <talmi@marvell.com>, "Shwetha Bhandari \(shwethab\)" <shwethab@cisco.com>, joel jaeggli <joelja@bogus.com>, "Benoit Claise \(bclaise\)" <bclaise@cisco.com>, "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>
Subject: [Ioam] Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group
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Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG =
mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a=
 dedicated working group to progress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below y=
ou'll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG t=
hat several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so=
 that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quick p=
rogress.

We appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos


IOAM working group charter
In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo=
ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat=
a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced=
ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav=
ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg=
er, and export the embedded telemetry information.

The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:

* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification =
information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela=
y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ =
OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace.
* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i=
n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live traffic a c=
lassifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal an=
d retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing procedur=
e to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.
*  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a=
 specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and remove=
d at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. =
Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and error ha=
ndling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-=
situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.
*  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them =
independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM =
will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN=
-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware=
 dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.
* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in =
case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor=
ds could be present in every transport protocol layer.



The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:
* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo=
r in-situ OAM.
* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d=
ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi=
ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the=
 associated data packets).
In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th=
e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) =
in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.


Milestones

April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG.
March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.
April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure=
s document.

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Following the discussions and g=
eneral support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance f=
rom Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a dedicated working group to pro=
gress normative work on in-situ OAM.
 Below you&#8217;ll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in=
-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp a=
nd focused, so that we can built on the past discussions and work as well a=
s make quick progress.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We appreciate your thoughts and=
 comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, C=
arlos<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"mso-element:para-border-div;border:none;border-bottom:solid w=
indowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"border:none;padding:0cm"><span lang=3D"EN-U=
S"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IOAM working group charter<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In-situ OAM provides real-time =
telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry in=
formation which is embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends =
to define data formats and associated
 procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and pa=
th-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure=
, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The IOAM WG will define the fol=
lowing in-situ OAM components:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">* Data-records for in-situ OAM =
to cover path-tracing and path verification information (node-ids, ingress/=
egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence num=
bers, application-defined metadata.
 In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace. <o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">* Procedures to add, update, re=
move, retrieve and export data-records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and =
active probing.&nbsp; In case of live traffic a classifier to select subset=
 of live traffic for addition, update, removal
 and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing proce=
dure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.<o:p=
></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">*&nbsp; Scope of in-situ OAM op=
eration. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a specific operational doma=
in. In-situ OAM data-records are added and removed at domain boundaries and=
 updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM
 domain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and=
 error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling=
 when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">*&nbsp; Data-records for in-sit=
u OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them independent from the trans=
port protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded i=
nto transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6,
 VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve. <o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">* Procedures and data-records o=
ptimized for software dataplane and hardware dataplane implementations of i=
n-situ OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">* In-situ OAM to support layeri=
ng. If several transport protocols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked =
on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every tr=
ansport protocol layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The IOAM working group intends =
to work on and publish:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">* Definition of the data-type f=
ormats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces for in-situ OAM.<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">* Definition of procedures that=
 in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on data traffic that carries in-sit=
u OAM information (e.g., introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and =
exporting the telemetry information
 from the associated data packets).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In-situ OAM data records could =
be embedded into a variety of transports. The transports are expected to be=
 defined in the respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM w=
orking group documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Milestones<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">April 2018 - submit data format=
 and associated procedures document to IESG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">March 2018 - WGLC for data form=
at and associated procedures document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">April 2017 - working group adop=
tion of data format and associated procedures document.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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-- 
Thanks,
Ramki

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
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From nobody Mon Jan 30 15:11:56 2017
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From: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
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Frank:
The first sentence of the proposed charter says:
In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets =
and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along wit=
hin data packets

So the key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthet=
ic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encod=
ed into the user data packets. Correct?

Does it mean "Telemetry information that doesn't have user payload" is out =
of the scope?

Thanks, Linda Dunbar


From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne at cisco.com<mailto:fbrockne@D=
OMAIN.HIDDEN>>
________________________________

Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG =
mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a=
 dedicated working group to progress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below y=
ou'll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG t=
hat several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so=
 that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quick p=
rogress.

We appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos


IOAM working group charter
In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo=
ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat=
a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced=
ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav=
ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg=
er, and export the embedded telemetry information.

The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:

* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification =
information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela=
y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ =
OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace.
* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i=
n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live traffic a c=
lassifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal an=
d retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing procedur=
e to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.
*  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a=
 specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and remove=
d at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. =
Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and error ha=
ndling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-=
situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.
*  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them =
independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM =
will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN=
-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware=
 dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.
* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in =
case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor=
ds could be present in every transport protocol layer.



The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:
* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo=
r in-situ OAM.
* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d=
ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi=
ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the=
 associated data packets).
In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th=
e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) =
in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.


Milestones

April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG.
March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.
April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure=
s document.



Huawei USA IP Technology Lab
5340 Legacy Drive,
Plano, TX 75024
Tel: +1 469-277 - 5840
Fax: +1 469 -277 - 5900


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Frank: <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">The first sentence of =
the proposed charter says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">In-situ OAM (IOAM) =
provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is ba=
sed on telemetry information which is embedded along
 within data packets</span><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span style=3D"color=
:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">So the key differences=
 between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthetic data packets (i.e. =
dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encoded into the user data =
packets. Correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Does it mean &#8220;Te=
lemetry information that doesn&#8217;t have user payload&#8221; is out of t=
he scope?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda Dunbar<o=
:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><i><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><i><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><i><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Rom=
an&quot;,serif">From</span></i><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">: &quot;Frank Brockners (fbrockne)&quot;
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@DOMAIN.HIDDEN"><span style=3D"color:blue">f=
brockne at cisco.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM o=
n the OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance from
 Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a dedicated working group to progre=
ss normative work on in-situ OAM. Below you&#8217;ll find a first draft of =
a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. T=
he scope is intentionally crisp and focused,
 so that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quic=
k progress.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">We appreciate your thoughts and comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">IOAM working group charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data pa=
ckets and flows. It is based on telemetry information
 which is embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define=
 data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanis=
ms for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as pro=
cedures to employ, configure, trigger,
 and export the embedded telemetry information.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path =
verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress
 interfaces), timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, =
application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an=
 in-situ OAM namespace.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-=
records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active
 probing.&nbsp; In case of live traffic a classifier to select subset of li=
ve traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-=
records. In case of active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data=
 records to the source of the probe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">*&nbsp; Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations=
 are defined for a specific operational domain. In-situ
 OAM data-records are added and removed at domain boundaries and updated by=
 nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challe=
nges in packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path =
MTU and ICMP message handling when
 in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">*&nbsp; Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a wa=
y that makes them independent from the transport protocol
 used. Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport=
 protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane=
 and hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ
 OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protoc=
ols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top
 of each other, in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every transpor=
t protocol layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and =
namespaces for in-situ OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will=
 perform on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM
 information (e.g., introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and expor=
ting the telemetry information from the associated data packets).<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of t=
ransports. The transports are expected to be defined
 in the respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working g=
roup documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Milestones<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures docu=
ment to IESG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures do=
cument.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associa=
ted procedures document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Huawei USA IP Te=
chnology Lab</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt"><o:p=
></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">5340 Legacy Driv=
e, <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Plano, TX 75024<=
o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Tel: &#43;1 469-=
277 - 5840 <o:p>
</o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">Fax: &#43;1 469 =
-277 - 5900 <o:p>
</o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2SJCEML702CHMchi_--


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Subject: [Ioam] New Non-WG Mailing List: ioam -- Discussion on In-Situ OAM which provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows.
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Purpose:

In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within data packets. This BOF is to form a WG. The to be created WG would define attributes for In-situ OAM. These attributes include the specification of data formats and associated procedures for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information.


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To: "Ioam@ietf.org" <Ioam@ietf.org>, "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
References: <4A95BA014132FF49AE685FAB4B9F17F6592396A2@SJCEML702-CHM.china.huawei.com>
From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Message-ID: <e5858396-2bbb-7ff8-e38d-8d76a5896e60@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 10:45:07 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter
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Frank

We have other insitu approaches in flight and I hope that there is going 
to be no resultant confusion.

There are proposals in MPLS and IPPM to perform loss, delay and jitter 
measurements on live packets using packet marking. The important 
difference between the approach taken there and this approach is that we 
have imposed a constraint that the forwarding plane cannot be modified.

It would be useful to clarify that there are other ongoing IETF 
approaches to OAM on live traffic that are out of scope for this WG.

- Stewart

On 30/01/2017 23:10, Linda Dunbar wrote:
>
> Frank:
>
> The first sentence of the proposed charter says:
>
> In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data 
> packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is 
> embedded along within data packets
>
> So the key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses 
> synthetic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ 
> OAM are encoded into the user data packets. Correct?
>
> Does it mean “Telemetry information that doesn’t have user payload” is 
> out of the scope?
>
> Thanks, Linda Dunbar
>
> //
>
> //
>
> /From/: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne at cisco.com 
> <mailto:fbrockne@DOMAIN.HIDDEN>>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the 
> OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are 
> to propose a dedicated working group to progress normative work on 
> in-situ OAM. Below you’ll find a first draft of a working group 
> charter for an in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. The scope is 
> intentionally crisp and focused, so that we can built on the past 
> discussions and work as well as make quick progress.
>
> We appreciate your thoughts and comments.
>
> Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos
>
> IOAM working group charter
>
> In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets 
> and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded 
> along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats 
> and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for 
> capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as 
> procedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export the embedded 
> telemetry information.
>
> The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:
>
> * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path 
> verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), 
> timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, 
> application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined 
> using an in-situ OAM namespace.
>
> * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records 
> for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live 
> traffic a classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, 
> update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of 
> active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the 
> source of the probe.
>
> *  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined 
> for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added 
> and removed at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the 
> in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in 
> packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU 
> and ICMP message handling when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ 
> OAM domain.
>
> *  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes 
> them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for 
> in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as 
> IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
>
> * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and 
> hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.
>
> * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols 
> (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ 
> OAM data-records could be present in every transport protocol layer.
>
> The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:
>
> * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and 
> namespaces for in-situ OAM.
>
> * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform 
> on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., 
> introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and exporting the 
> telemetry information from the associated data packets).
>
> In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of 
> transports. The transports are expected to be defined in the 
> respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working 
> group documents.
>
> Milestones
>
> April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to 
> IESG.
>
> March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.
>
> April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated 
> procedures document.
>
> *Huawei USA IP Technology Lab***
>
> *5340 Legacy Drive, *
>
> *Plano, TX 75024*
>
> *Tel: +1 469-277 - 5840 *
>
> *Fax: +1 469 -277 - 5900 *
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ioam mailing list
> Ioam@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam


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    Frank<br>
    <br>
    We have other insitu approaches in flight and I hope that there is
    going to be no resultant confusion.<br>
    <br>
    There are proposals in MPLS and IPPM to perform loss, delay and
    jitter measurements on live packets using packet marking. The
    important difference between the approach taken there and this
    approach is that we have imposed a constraint that the forwarding
    plane cannot be modified.<br>
    <br>
    It would be useful to clarify that there are other ongoing IETF
    approaches to OAM on live traffic that are out of scope for this WG.<br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 30/01/2017 23:10, Linda Dunbar
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
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      <div class="WordSection1">
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Frank: <o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">The first
            sentence of the proposed charter says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-left:36.0pt"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,serif">In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time
            telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based
            on telemetry information which is embedded along within data
            packets</span><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><a moz-do-not-send="true"
            name="_MailEndCompose"></a><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">So the key
            differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses
            synthetic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas
            In-situ OAM are encoded into the user data packets. Correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Does it mean
            “Telemetry information that doesn’t have user payload” is
            out of the scope?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D"><o:p> </o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:#1F497D">Thanks, Linda
            Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p> </o:p></span></i></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"
          style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><i><span
              style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
              Roman&quot;,serif">From</span></i><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,serif">: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" &lt;<a
              moz-do-not-send="true"
              href="mailto:fbrockne@DOMAIN.HIDDEN"><span
                style="color:blue">fbrockne at cisco.com</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
        <div class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:center" align="center"><span
            style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
            Roman&quot;,serif">
            <hr align="center" size="3" width="100%">
          </span></div>
        <table class="MsoNormalTable" style="width:100.0%" border="0"
          cellpadding="0" cellspacing="3" width="100%">
          <tbody>
            <tr>
              <td style="padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">Following the discussions and
                    general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG mailing
                    list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we
                    are to propose a dedicated working group to progress
                    normative work on in-situ OAM. Below you’ll find a
                    first draft of a working group charter for an
                    in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. The scope
                    is intentionally crisp and focused, so that we can
                    built on the past discussions and work as well as
                    make quick progress.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">We appreciate your thoughts and
                    comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha,
                    Carlos<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">IOAM working group charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">In-situ OAM provides real-time
                    telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It
                    is based on telemetry information which is embedded
                    along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to
                    define data formats and associated procedures for
                    in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path
                    and path-traversal related information as well as
                    procedures to employ, configure, trigger, and export
                    the embedded telemetry information.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">The IOAM WG will define the
                    following in-situ OAM components:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">* Data-records for in-situ OAM to
                    cover path-tracing and path verification information
                    (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps,
                    transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers,
                    application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM
                    data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM
                    namespace.
                    <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">* Procedures to add, update,
                    remove, retrieve and export data-records for in-situ
                    OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of
                    live traffic a classifier to select subset of live
                    traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval
                    of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active
                    probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data
                    records to the source of the probe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">*  Scope of in-situ OAM
                    operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a
                    specific operational domain. In-situ OAM
                    data-records are added and removed at domain
                    boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ
                    OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various
                    challenges in packet forwarding and error handling
                    such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message
                    handling when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ
                    OAM domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">*  Data-records for in-situ OAM
                    are to be defined in a way that makes them
                    independent from the transport protocol used.
                    Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be
                    embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4,
                    IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
                    <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">* Procedures and data-records
                    optimized for software dataplane and hardware
                    dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">* In-situ OAM to support
                    layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in
                    case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other,
                    in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every
                    transport protocol layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">The IOAM working group intends to
                    work on and publish:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">* Definition of the data-type
                    formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces for
                    in-situ OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">* Definition of procedures that
                    in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on data
                    traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g.,
                    introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and
                    exporting the telemetry information from the
                    associated data packets).<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">In-situ OAM data records could be
                    embedded into a variety of transports. The
                    transports are expected to be defined in the
                    respective working group(s) in consultation with the
                    IOAM working group documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">Milestones<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif"> <o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">April 2018 - submit data format
                    and associated procedures document to IESG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">March 2018 - WGLC for data format
                    and associated procedures document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
                <p class="MsoNormal"
                  style="mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-alt:auto"><span
                    style="font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New
                    Roman&quot;,serif">April 2017 - working group
                    adoption of data format and associated procedures
                    document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
              </td>
            </tr>
          </tbody>
        </table>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Huawei
              USA IP Technology Lab</span></b><b><span
              style="font-size:10.0pt" lang="FR"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">5340
              Legacy Drive, <o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Plano, TX
              75024<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Tel: +1
              469-277 - 5840 <o:p>
              </o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt">Fax: +1
              469 -277 - 5900 <o:p>
              </o:p></span></b></p>
        <p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p>
      </div>
      <br>
      <fieldset class="mimeAttachmentHeader"></fieldset>
      <br>
      <pre wrap="">_______________________________________________
Ioam mailing list
<a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:Ioam@ietf.org">Ioam@ietf.org</a>
<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam</a>
</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

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On 31/01/2017 13:56, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote:

> While clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly 
> mention that this new-WG will also coordinate with other related WGs 
> (list them!) as needed.
>

Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly 
interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes.

- Stewart


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    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 31/01/2017 13:56, Alvaro Retana
      (aretana) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote
      cite="mid:074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com"
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    <blockquote
      cite="mid:074B5B76-3C6E-4E0B-8108-AF5702F7EC40@cisco.com"
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span
            style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">While
            clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly
            mention that this new-WG will also coordinate with other
            related WGs (list them!) as needed.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly
    interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes.<br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
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From: Ram Krishnan <ramkri123@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 07:08:15 -0800
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Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter
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Good discussion. IPPM is another relevant WG group since this work has
direct impact on performance measurement.

Thanks,
Ramki

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
wrote:

>
>
> On 31/01/2017 13:56, Alvaro Retana (aretana) wrote:
>
>
>
>
> While clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly mention
> that this new-WG will also coordinate with other related WGs (list them!)
> as needed.
>
>
> Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly
> interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes.
>
> - Stewart
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ioam mailing list
> Ioam@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam
>
>


-- 
Thanks,
Ramki

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier =
new,monospace">Good discussion. IPPM is another relevant WG group since thi=
s work has direct impact on performance measurement.</div><div class=3D"gma=
il_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">Thanks,</di=
v><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:courier new,monospace">=
Ramki</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Tue=
, Jan 31, 2017 at 6:27 AM, Stewart Bryant <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:stewart.bryant@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">stewart.bryant@gmail.com=
</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin=
:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
 =20
   =20
 =20
  <div bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF" text=3D"#000000">
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <br>
    <div class=3D"m_-232672358079351779moz-cite-prefix">On 31/01/2017 13:56=
, Alvaro Retana
      (aretana) wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
     =20
     =20
     =20
     =20
     =20
      <div class=3D"m_-232672358079351779WordSection1"></div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    <blockquote type=3D"cite">
      <div class=3D"m_-232672358079351779WordSection1"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><u></u><u></u></span>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
Calibri"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
        <p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
Calibri">While
            clarifying what is out of scope, we should also explicitly
            mention that this new-WG will also coordinate with other
            related WGs (list them!) as needed.</span></p>
      </div>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
    Yes. 6man and MPLS being obvious examples since they will be greatly
    interested in discussing the impact on their forwarding planes.<span cl=
ass=3D"HOEnZb"><font color=3D"#888888"><br>
    <br>
    - Stewart<br>
    <br>
  </font></span></div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ioam mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ioam@ietf.org">Ioam@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/ioam</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear=3D"all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_signature" data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr">=
Thanks,=C2=A0<div>Ramki<br></div></div></div>
</div></div>

--94eb2c13057236bc3a0547654d47--


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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work
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I believe I sent this question to the requirements authors, but now that 
there is a dedicated list for the topic, it seems appropriate to ask it 
here.

The In-Situ OAM Work looks interesting.
However, it also looks like a new attempt to standardize a mechanism 
whose close relatives have failed before.

Why should we expect In-Situ OAM to work when earlier efforts such as 
record route have ended up ineffective at best?

Yours,
Joel


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From: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
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On 31/01/2017 15:34, Joel M. Halpern wrote:
> I believe I sent this question to the requirements authors, but now 
> that there is a dedicated list for the topic, it seems appropriate to 
> ask it here.
>
> The In-Situ OAM Work looks interesting.
> However, it also looks like a new attempt to standardize a mechanism 
> whose close relatives have failed before.
>
> Why should we expect In-Situ OAM to work when earlier efforts such as 
> record route have ended up ineffective at best?

I also wonder whether applications that care that much about the detail 
of the path shouldn't be using
SR to force the path. Indeed I wonder whether SR couldn't help with the 
recoding of transit,
at least in the V6 case where each segment identifier could be replaced 
with an opaque token
of transit as the packet passed through that intermediate node.

Stewart



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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, Ram Krishnan <ramkri123@gmail.com>, Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter
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Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 17:48:46 +0000
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Cc: "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>, "Ioam@ietf.org" <Ioam@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter
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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>, "Ioam@ietf.org" <Ioam@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions to IOAM proposed charter
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Linda,

please see inline (...FB)

From: Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
Sent: Dienstag, 31. Januar 2017 00:11
To: Ioam@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Subject: Questions to IOAM proposed charter

Frank:
The first sentence of the proposed charter says:
In-situ OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets =
and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along wit=
hin data packets

So the key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthet=
ic data packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encod=
ed into the user data packets. Correct?

...FB: Yes, partially. Key qualities of "in-situ OAM" is that the OAM data-=
records are carried within the user-traffic, that in-situ OAM applies to a =
specific domain, and that nodes within the domain might update the in-situ =
OAM data-records as the traffic traverses the network. There are several mo=
re attributes of in-situ OAM, which is why the scope statement of the propo=
sed IOAM WG a bit long.

Does it mean "Telemetry information that doesn't have user payload" is out =
of the scope?

...FB: Given that we're still in the process of defining the scope, let me =
turn the question back to you: Should it be included?

Thanks, Frank

Thanks, Linda Dunbar


From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne at cisco.com<mailto:fbrockne@D=
OMAIN.HIDDEN>>
________________________________

Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM on the OPSAWG =
mailing list and the guidance from Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a=
 dedicated working group to progress normative work on in-situ OAM. Below y=
ou'll find a first draft of a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG t=
hat several of us drafted. The scope is intentionally crisp and focused, so=
 that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quick p=
rogress.

We appreciate your thoughts and comments.

Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos


IOAM working group charter
In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo=
ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat=
a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced=
ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav=
ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg=
er, and export the embedded telemetry information.

The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:

* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification =
information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela=
y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ =
OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace.
* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i=
n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live traffic a c=
lassifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal an=
d retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing procedur=
e to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.
*  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a=
 specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and remove=
d at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. =
Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and error ha=
ndling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-=
situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.
*  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them =
independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ OAM =
will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN=
-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware=
 dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.
* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in =
case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor=
ds could be present in every transport protocol layer.



The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:
* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo=
r in-situ OAM.
* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d=
ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi=
ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the=
 associated data packets).
In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th=
e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) =
in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.


Milestones

April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG.
March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.
April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure=
s document.



Huawei USA IP Technology Lab
5340 Legacy Drive,
Plano, TX 75024
Tel: +1 469-277 - 5840
Fax: +1 469 -277 - 5900


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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Linda,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">please see inline (...FB)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:#1F497D;mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Linda Dunbar [mailto:linda.dunbar@huawei.com]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Dienstag, 31. Januar 2017 00:11<br>
<b>To:</b> Ioam@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;fbrockne@cisco.com=
&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Questions to IOAM proposed charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Frank: =
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">The fir=
st sentence of the proposed charter says:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US" st=
yle=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">In-s=
itu OAM (IOAM) provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and =
flows. It is based on telemetry information which
 is embedded along within data packets</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"=
color:#1F497D"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"></a><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
 style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">So the =
key differences between In-situ OAM and BFD is that BFD uses synthetic data=
 packets (i.e. dedicated OAM packets), whereas In-situ OAM are encoded into=
 the user data packets. Correct?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8230;=
FB: Yes, partially. Key qualities of &#8220;in-situ OAM&#8221; is that the =
OAM data-records are carried within the user-traffic, that in-situ OAM appl=
ies to a specific domain, and that nodes within the domain
 might update the in-situ OAM data-records as the traffic traverses the net=
work. There are several more attributes of in-situ OAM, which is why the sc=
ope statement of the proposed IOAM WG a bit long.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Does it=
 mean &#8220;Telemetry information that doesn&#8217;t have user payload&#82=
21; is out of the scope?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">&#8230;=
FB: Given that we&#8217;re still in the process of defining the scope, let =
me turn the question back to you: Should it be included?
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,=
 Frank<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D"><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:#1F497D">Thanks,=
 Linda Dunbar<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></i></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quo=
t;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">From</span></i><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D=
"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">:
 &quot;Frank Brockners (fbrockne)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@DOMA=
IN.HIDDEN"><span style=3D"color:blue">fbrockne at cisco.com</span></a>&gt;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align:center"><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman=
&quot;,serif">
<hr size=3D"3" width=3D"100%" align=3D"center">
</span></div>
<table class=3D"MsoNormalTable" border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=
=3D"0" width=3D"100%" style=3D"width:100.0%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Following the discussions and general support of in-situ OAM o=
n the OPSAWG mailing list and the guidance from
 Ops and Routing ADs, we are to propose a dedicated working group to progre=
ss normative work on in-situ OAM. Below you&#8217;ll find a first draft of =
a working group charter for an in-situ OAM WG that several of us drafted. T=
he scope is intentionally crisp and focused,
 so that we can built on the past discussions and work as well as make quic=
k progress.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">We appreciate your thoughts and comments.<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Regards, Frank, Tal, Shwetha, Carlos<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">IOAM working group charter<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data pa=
ckets and flows. It is based on telemetry information
 which is embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define=
 data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanis=
ms for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as pro=
cedures to employ, configure, trigger,
 and export the embedded telemetry information.&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path =
verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress
 interfaces), timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, =
application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an=
 in-situ OAM namespace.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-=
records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active
 probing.&nbsp; In case of live traffic a classifier to select subset of li=
ve traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-=
records. In case of active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data=
 records to the source of the probe.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">*&nbsp; Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations=
 are defined for a specific operational domain. In-situ
 OAM data-records are added and removed at domain boundaries and updated by=
 nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various challe=
nges in packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path =
MTU and ICMP message handling when
 in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">*&nbsp; Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a wa=
y that makes them independent from the transport protocol
 used. Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport=
 protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane=
 and hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ
 OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protoc=
ols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top
 of each other, in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every transpor=
t protocol layer.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and =
namespaces for in-situ OAM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will=
 perform on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM
 information (e.g., introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and expor=
ting the telemetry information from the associated data packets).<o:p></o:p=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of t=
ransports. The transports are expected to be defined
 in the respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working g=
roup documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">Milestones<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures docu=
ment to IESG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures do=
cument.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:auto;mso-margin-bottom-a=
lt:auto"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&=
quot;,serif">April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associa=
ted procedures document.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">H=
uawei USA IP Technology Lab</span></b><b><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-si=
ze:10.0pt"><o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">5=
340 Legacy Drive,
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">P=
lano, TX 75024<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">T=
el: &#43;1 469-277 - 5840
<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt">F=
ax: &#43;1 469 -277 - 5900
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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--_000_921396d4753c4b5a85ffa29d7fb0d2f4XCHRCD008ciscocom_--


From nobody Tue Jan 31 11:48:57 2017
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To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>, "ioam@ietf.org" <ioam@ietf.org>
References: <568f4fa0115e4fac8880e455dd9c29b1@XCH-RCD-008.cisco.com>
From: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" <bwietf@bwijnen.net>
Message-ID: <539dc382-6411-deed-ee8e-f7f66c5fb292@bwijnen.net>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 20:48:49 +0100
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Subject: Re: [Ioam] Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group
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inline
On 30/01/2017 19:25, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:
>
> IOAM working group charter
>
> In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flows. It is based on telemetry information which is 
> embedded along within data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated procedures for in-situ OAM, 
> including mechanisms for capturing path and path-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, 
> trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information.
>
> The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:
>
> * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), 
> timestamps, transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined 
> using an in-situ OAM namespace.
>
> * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case 
> of live traffic a classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal and retrieval of in-situ OAM 
> data-records. In case of active probing procedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.
>
> *  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records 
> are added and removed at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM domain. Procedure to deal with various 
> challenges in packet forwarding and error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling when in-situ OAM is 
> enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.
>
> *  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes them independent from the transport protocol used. 
> Data-records for in-situ OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, 
> Geneve.
>
Mmmm... why LISP? As far as I can tell, LISP IETF documents are all experimental or informational !!??
Correct me if I am wrong.

NSH is NFC Service Header. Is that then a protocol ??

Geneve is a tunnelling protocol/mechanism.

So are other tunneling protocols excluded?

Would it be better to use generic "tunneling protocols" ??

Bert
>
> * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.
>
> * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, 
> in-situ OAM data-records could be present in every transport protocol layer.
>
> The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:
>
> * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces for in-situ OAM.
>
> * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., 
> introducing, removing, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the associated data packets).
>
> In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. The transports are expected to be defined in the 
> respective working group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.
>
> Milestones
>
> April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG.
>
> March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.
>
> April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedures document.
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ioam mailing list
> Ioam@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam



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From: Alia Atlas <akatlas@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 31 Jan 2017 16:48:05 -0500
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To: "Bert Wijnen (IETF)" <bwietf@bwijnen.net>
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Subject: Re: [Ioam] Draft charter for in-situ OAM (IOAM) working group
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--001a1140973e14b83105476ae318
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Bert Wijnen (IETF) <bwietf@bwijnen.net>
wrote:

> inline
> On 30/01/2017 19:25, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:
>
>>
>> IOAM working group charter
>>
>> In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and
>> flows. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within
>> data packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated
>> procedures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and
>> path-traversal related information as well as procedures to employ,
>> configure, trigger, and export the embedded telemetry information.
>>
>> The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:
>>
>> * Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path
>> verification information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps,
>> transit-delay, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined
>> metadata. In-situ OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM
>> namespace.
>>
>> * Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for
>> in-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.  In case of live traffic a
>> classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, removal
>> and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing
>> procedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.
>>
>> *  Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined for
>> a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and
>> removed at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM
>> domain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and
>> error handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling
>> when in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.
>>
>> *  Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes
>> them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ
>> OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6,
>> VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.
>>
>> Mmmm... why LISP? As far as I can tell, LISP IETF documents are all
> experimental or informational !!??
> Correct me if I am wrong.
>

LISP is chartered to produce standards track documents now.


> NSH is NFC Service Header. Is that then a protocol ??
>

No - it's coming from SFC and is "transport-agnostic" so it can run inside
anything from UDP to MPLS to Ethernet.  The details of which transports are
likely hasn't really been discussed.


> Geneve is a tunnelling protocol/mechanism.
>

Both Geneve and VXLAN-GPE, as currently described in NVO3, are unlikely to
progress to be published
as standards track documents.  NVO3 currently has a design team that is
coming up with a merged solution
that is intended to progress.  Obviously, a charter needs to consider
carefully what work is intended as standards track.


> So are other tunneling protocols excluded?
>
> Would it be better to use generic "tunneling protocols" ??
>

It's likely and possible that there may be differences - both in terms of
what data-records might be carried and in terms of how the packets are
carried.  I don't think an open charter that supports any tunneling
protocol is likely to be beneficial for focus.

Regards,
Alia



> Bert
>
>>
>> * Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and
>> hardware dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.
>>
>> * In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g.
>> in case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM
>> data-records could be present in every transport protocol layer.
>>
>> The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:
>>
>> * Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces
>> for in-situ OAM.
>>
>> * Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on
>> data traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing,
>> removing, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information
>> from the associated data packets).
>>
>> In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports.
>> The transports are expected to be defined in the respective working
>> group(s) in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.
>>
>> Milestones
>>
>> April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to
>> IESG.
>>
>> March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.
>>
>> April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated
>> procedures document.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Ioam mailing list
>> Ioam@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Ioam mailing list
> Ioam@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam
>

--001a1140973e14b83105476ae318
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:48 PM, Bert Wijnen (IETF) <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:bwietf@bwijnen.net" target=3D"_blank">bwietf@bwijnen.n=
et</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">inline<span clas=
s=3D""><br>
On 30/01/2017 19:25, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote:<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<br>
IOAM working group charter<br>
<br>
In-situ OAM provides real-time telemetry of individual data packets and flo=
ws. It is based on telemetry information which is embedded along within dat=
a packets. The IOAM WG intends to define data formats and associated proced=
ures for in-situ OAM, including mechanisms for capturing path and path-trav=
ersal related information as well as procedures to employ, configure, trigg=
er, and export the embedded telemetry information.<br>
<br>
The IOAM WG will define the following in-situ OAM components:<br>
<br>
* Data-records for in-situ OAM to cover path-tracing and path verification =
information (node-ids, ingress/egress interfaces), timestamps, transit-dela=
y, transit jitter, sequence numbers, application-defined metadata. In-situ =
OAM data-records are defined using an in-situ OAM namespace.<br>
<br>
* Procedures to add, update, remove, retrieve and export data-records for i=
n-situ OAM to live traffic and active probing.=C2=A0 In case of live traffi=
c a classifier to select subset of live traffic for addition, update, remov=
al and retrieval of in-situ OAM data-records. In case of active probing pro=
cedure to return the in-situ OAM data records to the source of the probe.<b=
r>
<br>
*=C2=A0 Scope of in-situ OAM operation. In-Situ OAM operations are defined =
for a specific operational domain. In-situ OAM data-records are added and r=
emoved at domain boundaries and updated by nodes within the in-situ OAM dom=
ain. Procedure to deal with various challenges in packet forwarding and err=
or handling such as ECMP processing, path MTU and ICMP message handling whe=
n in-situ OAM is enabled in an in-situ OAM domain.<br>
<br>
*=C2=A0 Data-records for in-situ OAM are to be defined in a way that makes =
them independent from the transport protocol used. Data-records for in-situ=
 OAM will need to be embedded into transport protocols such as IPv4, IPv6, =
VXLAN-GPE, LISP, NSH, SRv6, Geneve.<br>
<br>
</blockquote></span>
Mmmm... why LISP? As far as I can tell, LISP IETF documents are all experim=
ental or informational !!??<br>
Correct me if I am wrong.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>LISP is chart=
ered to produce standards track documents now.=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-lef=
t:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
NSH is NFC Service Header. Is that then a protocol ??<br></blockquote><div>=
<br></div><div>No - it&#39;s coming from SFC and is &quot;transport-agnosti=
c&quot; so it can run inside anything from UDP to MPLS to Ethernet.=C2=A0 T=
he details of which transports are likely hasn&#39;t really been discussed.=
=C2=A0</div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Geneve is a tunnelling protocol/mechanism.<br></blockquote><div><br></div><=
div>Both Geneve and VXLAN-GPE, as currently described in NVO3, are unlikely=
 to progress to be published</div><div>as standards track documents.=C2=A0 =
NVO3 currently has a design team that is coming up with a merged solution</=
div><div>that is intended to progress.=C2=A0 Obviously, a charter needs to =
consider carefully what work is intended as standards track.=C2=A0</div><di=
v>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
So are other tunneling protocols excluded?<br>
<br>
Would it be better to use generic &quot;tunneling protocols&quot; ??<br></b=
lockquote><div><br></div><div>It&#39;s likely and possible that there may b=
e differences - both in terms of what data-records might be carried and in =
terms of how the packets are carried.=C2=A0 I don&#39;t think an open chart=
er that supports any tunneling protocol is likely to be beneficial for focu=
s.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Alia=C2=A0</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
Bert<br>
<blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1p=
x #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><span class=3D"">
<br>
* Procedures and data-records optimized for software dataplane and hardware=
 dataplane implementations of in-situ OAM.<br>
<br>
* In-situ OAM to support layering. If several transport protocols (e.g. in =
case of tunneling) are stacked on top of each other, in-situ OAM data-recor=
ds could be present in every transport protocol layer.<br>
<br>
The IOAM working group intends to work on and publish:<br>
<br>
* Definition of the data-type formats used in in-situ OAM and namespaces fo=
r in-situ OAM.<br>
<br>
* Definition of procedures that in-situ OAM enabled nodes will perform on d=
ata traffic that carries in-situ OAM information (e.g., introducing, removi=
ng, processing, modifying, and exporting the telemetry information from the=
 associated data packets).<br>
<br>
In-situ OAM data records could be embedded into a variety of transports. Th=
e transports are expected to be defined in the respective working group(s) =
in consultation with the IOAM working group documents.<br>
<br>
Milestones<br>
<br>
April 2018 - submit data format and associated procedures document to IESG.=
<br>
<br>
March 2018 - WGLC for data format and associated procedures document.<br>
<br>
April 2017 - working group adoption of data format and associated procedure=
s document.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br></span>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ioam mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ioam@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Ioam@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/ioam</a><br>
</blockquote>
<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Ioam mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Ioam@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Ioam@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/l<wbr>istinfo/ioam</a><br>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--001a1140973e14b83105476ae318--


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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [OPSAWG] WG adoption poll for In-Situ OAM drafts
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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:26:58 +0000
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work
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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:37:13 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work
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Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:41:27 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Linda Dunbar <linda.dunbar@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter
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Cc: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>, "Ioam@ietf.org" <Ioam@ietf.org>, Ram Krishnan <ramkri123@gmail.com>, "Frank Brockners \(fbrockne\)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>, "Alvaro Retana \(aretana\)" <aretana@cisco.com>
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: Stewart Bryant <stewart.bryant@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter
Thread-Index: AdJ7TaVDkBDSxtoZREqAMwObOsORpAAi1nSAACPy9YA=
Date: Wed, 1 Feb 2017 03:54:28 +0000
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Cc: "Ioam@ietf.org" <Ioam@ietf.org>, "Frank Brockners \(fbrockne\)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: [Ioam] Questions to IOAM proposed charter
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To: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
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From: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
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Subject: Re: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work
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Your comment about fast-path processing seems almost as over-generalized 
as my question.

Can some hardware process some potential in-situ messages in the fast 
path?  Of course.
Is there likely to be hardware that can process all possible in-situ 
messages in the fast path?  Seem unlikely.
Can existing hardware that handles some of these tunnels handle in-situ 
in the fast path?  Probably not.

Can we define a useful sdt of in-situ functions that can be processed 
efficiently, can avoid giving out inappropriate information to external 
parties, and are useful?  Probably.
But unless we are explicit about the constraints we will not achieve that.

As an example, some of the in-situ proposals have called for each device 
in the path to add information to the packet, expanding the packet. 
While it is theoretically possible to do that in a fast path, it usually 
does not work out.

Separately, you and I may have seen different things.  The usage I saw 
people wanting for record-route was to get what we eventually delivered 
in a messier fashion with traceroute.  I will agree that the need to 
slow-path the packets is a significant contributor to the failure.

Yours,
Joel

On 1/31/17 10:37 PM, Carlos Pignataro (cpignata) wrote:
> Hi, Joel,
>
>> On Jan 31, 2017, at 10:34 AM, Joel M. Halpern <jmh@joelhalpern.com> wrote:
>>
>> I believe I sent this question to the requirements authors, but now that there is a dedicated list for the topic, it seems appropriate to ask it here.
>>
>> The In-Situ OAM Work looks interesting.
>
> Indeed. Thanks.
>
>> However, it also looks like a new attempt to standardize a mechanism whose close relatives have failed before.
>>
>> Why should we expect In-Situ OAM to work when earlier efforts such as record route have ended up ineffective at best?
>>
>
> That statement and question, as phrased, seem to both overgeneralize and oversimplify.
>
> Efforts like record route did not have the same objective as In-situ OAM does. Consequently, success / effectiveness of those different goals is measured under different and incomparable bars.
>
> Here’s a fundamental difference: I have used first-hand Record Route in real large-scale provider network troubleshooting — but only to force a packet to be process-switched to differentiate from a fast path and debug. However, it is not hard to see how dataplane technology and silicon improved since the 1981 from RFC 791, and how that’s no longer the case necessarily.
>
> Today’s data path can fast-switch with these features, in a way that the penalty is less than a traditional tunneling encapsulation.
>
> Net-net, 1981’s record route seems to be not a useful comparison, certainly not anything to correlate effectiveness with.
>
> Thanks!
>
> — Carlos.
>
>> Yours,
>> Joel
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ioam
>
> _______________________________________________
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Joel M. Halpern" <jmh@joelhalpern.com>
Thread-Topic: [Ioam] Question regarding IOAM work
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