From owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Thu Feb 8 02:07:27 2001 Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id CAA29534 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 02:07:27 -0500 (EST) Received: from engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.13]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id XAA16069; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:06:50 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunroof.eng.sun.com (sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.168.88]) by engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id XAA15325; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) id f1875Xh02788 for ion-dist; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:05:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM (engmail1 [129.146.1.13]) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1875O202781 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:05:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lukla.Sun.COM (lukla.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.5.31]) by engmail1.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id XAA15167 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:05:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lohi.eng.telia.fi (lohi.eng.telia.fi [195.10.149.18]) by lukla.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id AAA27455 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:05:23 -0700 (MST) Received: (from jh@localhost) by lohi.eng.telia.fi (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f1875J106378; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:05:19 +0200 From: Juha Heinanen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14978.17711.393009.635412@lohi.eng.telia.fi> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:05:19 +0200 (EET) To: nbvpn@bbo.com CC: ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Subject: (ION) InARP Over Unidirectional VCs X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Precedence: bulk X-Info: [Un]Subscribe to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Submissions to ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Email archive at ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ion/ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit i just submitted the following internet draft: Inverse ARP over Unidirectional Virtual Circuits ftp://lohi.eng.telia.fi/tmp/draft-heinanen-inarp-uni-00.txt Abstract This memo describes operation of an Inverse Address Resolution Protocol (InARP) over unidirectional virtual circuits such as MPLS LSPs. looks like the ion wg (on the cc line) doesn't exist anymore. if so, may be the bmvpn wg could consider adopting this i-d? we need an inarp for mpls in order to autoconfigure the cpes in mpls based network provisioned l2 vpns. in addition, we need an mpls version of lmi. -- juha X-Info: To unsubscribe, email 'majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com' with X-Info: 'unsubscribe ion' in the body of the message. From owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Thu Feb 8 13:05:33 2001 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA15127 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:05:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from engmail3.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.144.170.5]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16684; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:04:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunroof.eng.sun.com (sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.168.88]) by engmail3.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id JAA01520; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:58:32 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) id f18HuhA03832 for ion-dist; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:56:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from engmail3.Eng.Sun.COM (engmail3 [129.144.170.5]) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f18Hua203825 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:56:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from venus.Sun.COM (venus.EBay.Sun.COM [129.150.69.5]) by engmail3.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id JAA01138 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:56:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from duck.prod.itd.earthlink.net (duck.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.117]) by venus.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28118 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:56:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from AMALIS.vivacenetworks.com ([195.129.11.217]) by duck.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA20556; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:56:05 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010208124909.03b31820@viva.vivacenet.com> X-Sender: (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:56:00 -0500 To: Juha Heinanen From: "Andrew G. Malis" Subject: Re: (ION) InARP Over Unidirectional VCs Cc: nbvpn@bbo.com, ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com In-Reply-To: <14978.17711.393009.635412@lohi.eng.telia.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Precedence: bulk X-Info: [Un]Subscribe to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Submissions to ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Email archive at ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ion/ Juha, You seem to be presupposing an MPLS interface to a box that is participating in MPLS signaling (in order to set up LSPs), but not participating in network-provided IP routing (else, there would not be a need for InARP). Are you setting up point-to-point LSPs between the CE routers in the VPN, using MPLS as your L2? And are you using LDP as your LSP setup protocol between the CE and PE routers? Right now, when people are talking about MPLS-based L2 VPNs, they are mostly discussing emulated FR or ATM connections as in the Martini or Kompella drafts. Cheers, Andy -------- At 2/8/2001 09:05 AM +0200, Juha Heinanen wrote: >i just submitted the following internet draft: > > Inverse ARP over Unidirectional Virtual Circuits > ftp://lohi.eng.telia.fi/tmp/draft-heinanen-inarp-uni-00.txt > >Abstract > > This memo describes operation of an Inverse Address Resolution > Protocol (InARP) over unidirectional virtual circuits such as MPLS > LSPs. > >looks like the ion wg (on the cc line) doesn't exist anymore. if so, >may be the bmvpn wg could consider adopting this i-d? > >we need an inarp for mpls in order to autoconfigure the cpes in mpls >based network provisioned l2 vpns. in addition, we need an mpls version >of lmi. > >-- juha >X-Info: To unsubscribe, email 'majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com' with >X-Info: 'unsubscribe ion' in the body of the message. X-Info: To unsubscribe, email 'majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com' with X-Info: 'unsubscribe ion' in the body of the message. From owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Thu Feb 8 13:13:35 2001 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA15502 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:13:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.144.134.6]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA20669; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:12:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunroof.eng.sun.com (sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.168.88]) by engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id KAA08766; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:11:47 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) id f18IAY604025 for ion-dist; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:10:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM (engmail4 [129.144.134.6]) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f18IAP204018 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from saturn.sun.com (saturn.EBay.Sun.COM [129.150.69.2]) by engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id KAA08546 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:10:25 -0800 (PST) Received: from lohi.eng.telia.fi (lohi.eng.telia.fi [195.10.149.18]) by saturn.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12341 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:10:24 -0800 (PST) Received: (from jh@localhost) by lohi.eng.telia.fi (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f18IAJF27113; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:10:19 +0200 From: Juha Heinanen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14978.57611.677726.119990@lohi.eng.telia.fi> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:10:19 +0200 (EET) To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: nbvpn@bbo.com, ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Subject: Re: (ION) InARP Over Unidirectional VCs In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010208124909.03b31820@viva.vivacenet.com> References: <14978.17711.393009.635412@lohi.eng.telia.fi> <5.0.2.1.2.20010208124909.03b31820@viva.vivacenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Precedence: bulk X-Info: [Un]Subscribe to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Submissions to ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Email archive at ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ion/ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew G. Malis writes: > You seem to be presupposing an MPLS interface to a box that is > participating in MPLS signaling (in order to set up LSPs), but not > participating in network-provided IP routing (else, there would not be a > need for InARP). no, i assume the same thing as with current network provided frame relay or atm vpns, where the network provides a set of lsps that terminate at the interface towards the cpe. > Are you setting up point-to-point LSPs between the CE > routers in the VPN, using MPLS as your L2? And are you using LDP as your > LSP setup protocol between the CE and PE routers? in order to fully automate things, the network edge router needs to somehow tell the cpe router about the lsps that are configured at the network edge-cpe interface. if may be possible that the network edge can push the lsps using ldp (i haven't looked at that yet) or then an mpls version of lmi would need to be invented. > Right now, when people are talking about MPLS-based L2 VPNs, they are > mostly discussing emulated FR or ATM connections as in the Martini or > Kompella drafts. yes, but i would like to use mpls lsps all the way to the cpe in order to make things simpler and to preserve the same qos properties on both sides of the provider edge-cpe interface. in addition, mpls label stacking brings other benefits that are not available in fr and atm case. -- juha X-Info: To unsubscribe, email 'majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com' with X-Info: 'unsubscribe ion' in the body of the message. From owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Thu Feb 8 13:47:44 2001 Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Sun.COM [192.18.98.43]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id NAA16351 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:47:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.144.134.6]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA04350; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:47:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunroof.eng.sun.com (sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.168.88]) by engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id KAA17264; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:47:02 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) id f18IjjX04251 for ion-dist; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:45:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM (engmail2 [129.146.1.25]) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f18Ijc204244 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:45:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from patan.sun.com (patan.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.5.43]) by engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id KAA16347 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:45:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from duck.prod.itd.earthlink.net (duck.prod.itd.earthlink.net [207.217.121.117]) by patan.sun.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA02716 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:45:36 -0800 (PST) Received: from AMALIS.vivacenetworks.com ([195.129.11.217]) by duck.prod.itd.earthlink.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA23195; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 10:45:28 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.0.2.1.2.20010208134237.03be2fe8@viva.vivacenet.com> X-Sender: (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:44:49 -0500 To: Juha Heinanen From: "Andrew G. Malis" Subject: Re: (ION) InARP Over Unidirectional VCs Cc: "Andrew G. Malis" , nbvpn@bbo.com, ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com In-Reply-To: <14978.57611.677726.119990@lohi.eng.telia.fi> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010208124909.03b31820@viva.vivacenet.com> <14978.17711.393009.635412@lohi.eng.telia.fi> <5.0.2.1.2.20010208124909.03b31820@viva.vivacenet.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Precedence: bulk X-Info: [Un]Subscribe to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Submissions to ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Email archive at ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ion/ Juha, Given what you said below, your InARP draft should work, but you can't stop there - as you noted, you need to automate things either by using LDP to push the labels, or an MPLS LMI. Otherwise, the CE can't know when to send the InARP requests. Cheers, Andy ------- At 2/8/2001 08:10 PM +0200, Juha Heinanen wrote: >Andrew G. Malis writes: > > > You seem to be presupposing an MPLS interface to a box that is > > participating in MPLS signaling (in order to set up LSPs), but not > > participating in network-provided IP routing (else, there would not be a > > need for InARP). > >no, i assume the same thing as with current network provided frame relay >or atm vpns, where the network provides a set of lsps that terminate at >the interface towards the cpe. > > > Are you setting up point-to-point LSPs between the CE > > routers in the VPN, using MPLS as your L2? And are you using LDP as your > > LSP setup protocol between the CE and PE routers? > >in order to fully automate things, the network edge router needs to >somehow tell the cpe router about the lsps that are configured at the >network edge-cpe interface. if may be possible that the network edge >can push the lsps using ldp (i haven't looked at that yet) or then an >mpls version of lmi would need to be invented. > > > Right now, when people are talking about MPLS-based L2 VPNs, they are > > mostly discussing emulated FR or ATM connections as in the Martini or > > Kompella drafts. > >yes, but i would like to use mpls lsps all the way to the cpe in order >to make things simpler and to preserve the same qos properties on both >sides of the provider edge-cpe interface. in addition, mpls label >stacking brings other benefits that are not available in fr and atm >case. > >-- juha X-Info: To unsubscribe, email 'majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com' with X-Info: 'unsubscribe ion' in the body of the message. From owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Thu Feb 8 15:08:34 2001 Received: from mercury.Sun.COM (mercury.Sun.COM [192.9.25.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with SMTP id PAA18420 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:08:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM ([129.146.1.25]) by mercury.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA12597; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:07:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from sunroof.eng.sun.com (sunroof.Eng.Sun.COM [129.146.168.88]) by engmail2.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id MAA07212; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:07:48 -0800 (PST) Received: (from majordomo@localhost) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) id f18K6ko04514 for ion-dist; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:06:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM (engmail4 [129.144.134.6]) by sunroof.eng.sun.com (8.11.2+Sun/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f18K6b204507 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:06:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from lukla.Sun.COM (lukla.Central.Sun.COM [129.147.5.31]) by engmail4.Eng.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3/ENSMAIL,v2.1p1) with ESMTP id MAA05899 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:06:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lohi.eng.telia.fi (lohi.eng.telia.fi [195.10.149.18]) by lukla.Sun.COM (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA26090 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 13:06:34 -0700 (MST) Received: (from jh@localhost) by lohi.eng.telia.fi (8.11.1/8.11.1/Debian 8.11.0-6) id f18K6UK27266; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:06:30 +0200 From: Juha Heinanen MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <14978.64581.527281.358427@lohi.eng.telia.fi> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:06:29 +0200 (EET) To: "Andrew G. Malis" Cc: nbvpn@bbo.com, ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Subject: Re: (ION) InARP Over Unidirectional VCs In-Reply-To: <5.0.2.1.2.20010208134237.03be2fe8@viva.vivacenet.com> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010208124909.03b31820@viva.vivacenet.com> <14978.17711.393009.635412@lohi.eng.telia.fi> <5.0.2.1.2.20010208134237.03be2fe8@viva.vivacenet.com> X-Mailer: VM 6.75 under Emacs 19.34.1 Sender: owner-ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com Precedence: bulk X-Info: [Un]Subscribe to majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Submissions to ion@sunroof.eng.sun.com X-Info: Email archive at ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ion/ Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Andrew G. Malis writes: > Given what you said below, your InARP draft should work, but you can't stop > there - as you noted, you need to automate things either by using LDP to > push the labels, or an MPLS LMI. Otherwise, the CE can't know when to send > the InARP requests. it seems that downstream unsolicited label mapping and label withdraw messages could be used for this purpose. if the necessary subset of ldp is not considered an overkill, an i-d would need to written to describe the details of this ldp application. -- juha X-Info: To unsubscribe, email 'majordomo@sunroof.eng.sun.com' with X-Info: 'unsubscribe ion' in the body of the message.