From nobody Tue Jan 5 16:56:01 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2576D3A1031 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 16:55:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MQAiv8rVAd7K for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 16:55:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 327E13A1037 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 16:55:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1ECA33899A for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 19:57:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id UqNgyWzeLCgi for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 19:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id BC2DF38999 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 19:56:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB273115 for ; Tue, 5 Jan 2021 19:55:55 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: iotops@ietf.org X-Attribution: mcr X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Date: Tue, 05 Jan 2021 19:55:55 -0500 Message-ID: <25790.1609894555@localhost> Archived-At: Subject: [Iotops] is chartering done? X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 00:55:59 -0000 There are two architecture documents that are on my todo list, but if the WG isn't going forward, then ??? 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Wed, 6 Jan 2021 18:38:18 +0000 From: "Rob Wilton (rwilton)" To: Michael Richardson CC: "iotops@ietf.org" , Warren Kumari Thread-Topic: [Iotops] is chartering done? 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X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Jan 2021 18:38:35 -0000 Hi Michael, Sorry, I owe you a reply. The plan is that the WG should go forward, but I'm afraid that a heavy work= load running up to Christmas + 2 weeks of PTO got in the way. Obviously, it isn't on this week's telechat, but hopefully we should be abl= e to get on the next one. Regards, Rob > -----Original Message----- > From: Iotops On Behalf Of Michael Richardson > Sent: 06 January 2021 00:56 > To: iotops@ietf.org > Subject: [Iotops] is chartering done? >=20 > There are two architecture documents that are on my todo list, but if the > WG > isn't going forward, then ??? >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Iotops mailing list > Iotops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iotops From nobody Wed Jan 20 08:18:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietf.org Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18F2D3A128F; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 08:17:58 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alvaro Retana via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alvaro Retana Message-ID: <161115947751.21755.6306155717554025962@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 08:17:58 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Iotops] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 16:17:58 -0000 Alvaro Retana has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-iotops/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) "within (e.g., RFC 8799) limited domains" While I like rfc8799 a lot, it is not an IETF consensus document. Making reference to it in a charter, even as an example, seems problematic to me. Taking the reference out should still be clear enough. (2) Revision, updates, and extensions related to existing WGs will be done in those WGs. Where new protocols may be needed, IOTOPS will help identify candidate venues within IETF for their development. What about revisions, updates, or extensions to technology related to closed WG -- or where new protocols are not needed? I assume the answer is the same (IOTOPS will help identify...); it would be nice for it to be explicit. (3) "Discussing issues related to IoT operational security." It seems to me that "operational security" could be added as another bullet in item 1 without any loss in meaning. Is there a specific reason for it to be called out separately that is not obvious from the text? (4) "Publish operational practice and document requirements." It is not clear to me whether the expectation is to publish (in an RFC) the requirements or just document them (in a draft) so they can be passed on to where solutions will be worked on. [nits] s/The IOTOPS Working Group is for the discussion/The IOTOPS Working Group is chartered for the discussion There's a mismatch between "devices that are:" and the bullets: "networked...have...are". s/devices that are/devices that s/networked/are networked s/extensions related to existing WGs/extensions to technology related to existing WGs From nobody Wed Jan 20 10:16:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D8D13A11AD; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 10:16:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id k14cZeGMwyv4; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 10:16:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCDEB3A11AF; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 10:16:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4105938B94; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:18:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id AthjZwkRkCAI; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:18:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFBE538B93; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:18:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30D08D2C; Wed, 20 Jan 2021 13:16:09 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Alvaro Retana cc: "The IESG" , iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <161115947751.21755.6306155717554025962@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <161115947751.21755.6306155717554025962@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Iotops] Alvaro Retana's No Objection on charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Jan 2021 18:16:18 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alvaro Retana via Datatracker wrote: > (1) "within (e.g., RFC 8799) limited domains" > While I like rfc8799 a lot, it is not an IETF consensus document. > Making reference to it in a charter, even as an example, seems > problematic to me. Taking the reference out should still be clear > enough. As it's just an "e.g.", is it really a problem? If we write "limited domains" without any reference, I think someone else will be upset? > (2) Revision, updates, and extensions related to existing WGs will be > done in those WGs. Where new protocols may be needed, IOTOPS will he= lp > identify candidate venues within IETF for their development. > What about revisions, updates, or extensions to technology related to > closed WG -- or where new protocols are not needed? I assume the > answer is the same (IOTOPS will help identify...); it would be nice f= or > it to be explicit. > (4) "Publish operational practice and document requirements." It is > not clear to me whether the expectation is to publish (in an RFC) the > requirements or just document them (in a draft) so they can be passed > on to where solutions will be worked on. to be parsed, I think, as: (Publish operational practice) and (document requirements). so there is no charter *mandate* to publish requirements. I think though, that the answer to both is that it's up to the discretion of the WG chairs, in consultation with the responsible AD as to what to do with closed WGs. I feel certain that once a clear requirement for a protocol document is established, that the IESG will hear about the problem. The IESG is mostly not into requirements-only documents, but sometimes that makes sense. No single answer will apply to all situations. > (3) "Discussing issues related to IoT operational security." It seems > to me that "operational security" could be added as another bullet in > item 1 without any loss in meaning. Is there a specific reason for it > to be called out separately that is not obvious from the text? IoT operational security is part of the lifecycle of the device. Point (1) is about lifecycle issues, although that word seems to gotten lost from that part of the text. IoT Operational Security is often about the environment in which the device lives, not about the device itself. (For instance, DNS vs DNSSEC in a local recursive resolver, is not a lifecycle issue with the device itself) But, your point is well taken in the greater scheme of things. =2D- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh network= s [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect = [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails = [ =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAIc2gACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXM4wf/U6Dbjv2G6+JqB8nhqpqPNByCJZ/imWJBijV9lhCid2z0XW759K0mLyTB DOkPs8wGG0Pwzbfra3hDKYwmk/AQ/fadgijAlWHbCZvQQVlvk7HZjUeg5E6Mmg4k mcrm+BUzi1sqlhB95S4ujxal2rmcIbLj/CIyZ/6XQJWabHRfI175mZmjfOrZkYp6 411QWk0QFmUcFzq6weKpKsniX1MhaJfs1CB6xAKqvxNoGVylQstkoE1Yn5j29DQq FJeVQN8y3IaCqvAwxEi03kKnotr0qJnHYCK5W7xlYsppZI++Z9jcITKUNk4TahgO b4GBJHjVcvev9bk52JFGcNCgphXRAg== =yBuN -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jan 21 05:53:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietf.org Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 26BF13A0DEB; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 05:53:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alissa Cooper Message-ID: <161123720749.26475.15346633681665853684@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 05:53:28 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Iotops] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 13:53:34 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: Block When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-iotops/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- BLOCK: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- (1) I agree with Alvaro that the reference to RFC 8799 is not appropriate in this charter. Using the well understood "administrative domain" terminology would be better. (2) The charter contains some contradictory language about its scope. Looking at this: "The IETF is or has worked on a number of technologies related to IoT. These include work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, and 6TISCH. IOTOPS is intended to be a discussion venue where people can discuss how the various technologies developed in these WGs fit together, what gaps remain, what has been learnt from deploying these, etc. IOTOPS will solicit input on IoT-device-related operational issues and practices, and existing and proposed technologies related to the deployment, operational management, and lifecycle management of IoT devices. IOTOPS provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested parties to engage in discussions of IoT requirements of networking standards, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology in IoT specific scenarios." Comparing this to the numbered list of work areas at the end of the charter, it seems that the objective is to be much more focused than the text above implies. I would suggest some edits to the text above, condensing down to one paragraph: The IETF is or has worked on a number of technologies related to IoT. These include work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, and 6TISCH. IOTOPS will solicit input on IoT-device-related operational issues and practices, and existing and proposed technologies related to the deployment, operational management, and lifecycle management of IoT devices. IOTOPS provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested parties to engage in discussions of operational IoT requirements, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology related to IoT device and network operations. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- s/The IETF is or has worked on/The IETF works on/ OLD These include work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, and 6TISCH. NEW This includes work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, 6TISCH, and other working groups. Is the list of WGs supposed to be limited or exhaustive? In addition to the missing ones others have pointed out there is TEEP. OLD Revision, updates, and extensions related to existing WGs will be done in those WGs. NEW Revision, updates, and extensions related to work in existing WGs will be done in those WGs. From nobody Thu Jan 21 07:37:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A5783A10FF; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 07:37:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.87 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.87 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.248, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NEUTRAL=0.779, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nwDD3k_zIduH; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 07:37:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:40]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3DABE3A10FE; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 07:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de [IPv6:2001:638:a000:4134::ffff:52]) by faui40.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07BEA548072; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:36:57 +0100 (CET) Received: by faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de (Postfix, from userid 10463) id 02D7D440163; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:36:56 +0100 (CET) Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:36:56 +0100 From: Toerless Eckert To: Alissa Cooper Cc: The IESG , iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org Message-ID: <20210121153656.GA35983@faui48f.informatik.uni-erlangen.de> References: <161123720749.26475.15346633681665853684@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <161123720749.26475.15346633681665853684@ietfa.amsl.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.10.1 (2018-07-13) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Iotops] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 15:37:07 -0000 Alissa, Alvaro, *: "administrative domain" is IMHO not a good equivalent for "limited domain" because in general an "administrative domain" could be interpreted as an Internet administrative domain, and for that a lot of Internet requirements apply. Such as for example everything related to congestion control. I thought to remember that before rfc8799 introduced the term "limited domain" that we referred to these type of networks as "controlled networks". But actually, trying to find a reference, i would suggest potentially this here: RFC8085 - "UDP Usage Guidelines" Section 3.6: "Controlled Environments" just as a suggestion. E.g.: "controlld environments" (i personally like "controlled" a lot better than "limited".., but matter of opinion) Cheers toerless On Thu, Jan 21, 2021 at 05:53:28AM -0800, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker wrote: > Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for > charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: Block > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > introductory paragraph, however.) > > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-iotops/ > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > BLOCK: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > (1) I agree with Alvaro that the reference to RFC 8799 is not appropriate in > this charter. Using the well understood "administrative domain" terminology > would be better. > > (2) The charter contains some contradictory language about its scope. Looking > at this: > > "The IETF is or has worked on a number of technologies related to IoT. These > include work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, > and 6TISCH. IOTOPS is intended to be a discussion venue where people can > discuss how the various technologies developed in these WGs fit together, what > gaps remain, what has been learnt from deploying these, etc. > > IOTOPS will solicit input on IoT-device-related operational issues and > practices, and existing and proposed technologies related to the deployment, > operational management, and lifecycle management of IoT devices. IOTOPS > provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested parties to engage in > discussions of IoT requirements of networking standards, as well as proposals > for new uses of IP technology in IoT specific scenarios." > > Comparing this to the numbered list of work areas at the end of the charter, it > seems that the objective is to be much more focused than the text above > implies. I would suggest some edits to the text above, condensing down to one > paragraph: > > The IETF is or has worked on a number of technologies related to IoT. These > include work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, > and 6TISCH. IOTOPS will solicit input on IoT-device-related operational issues > and practices, and existing and proposed technologies related to the > deployment, operational management, and lifecycle management of IoT devices. > IOTOPS provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested parties to engage > in discussions of operational IoT requirements, as well as proposals for new > uses of IP technology related to IoT device and network operations. > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > COMMENT: > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > s/The IETF is or has worked on/The IETF works on/ > > OLD > These include work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, > SUIT, and 6TISCH. > > NEW > This includes work done in ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, > SUIT, 6TISCH, and other working groups. > > Is the list of WGs supposed to be limited or exhaustive? In addition to the > missing ones others have pointed out there is TEEP. > > OLD > Revision, updates, and extensions related to existing WGs will be done in those > WGs. > > NEW > Revision, updates, and extensions related to work in existing WGs will be done > in those WGs. > > > > -- > Iotops mailing list > Iotops@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iotops From nobody Thu Jan 21 08:07:03 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6153A1250; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 08:07:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Su14YLnek1_U; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 08:06:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D5353A1264; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 08:06:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F81F38B5C; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:08:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id JRsxdFMLInNG; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:08:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8F2C338B5B; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:08:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99BB34AB; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:06:40 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: Alissa Cooper cc: "The IESG" , iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <161123720749.26475.15346633681665853684@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <161123720749.26475.15346633681665853684@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Iotops] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 16:07:00 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alissa Cooper via Datatracker wrote: > IOTOPS will solicit input on IoT-device-related operational issues and > practices, and existing and proposed technologies related to the > deployment, operational management, and lifecycle management of IoT > devices. IOTOPS provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested > parties to engage in discussions of IoT requirements of networking > standards, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology in IoT > specific scenarios." > Comparing this to the numbered list of work areas at the end of the > charter, it seems that the objective is to be much more focused than > the text above implies. I would suggest some edits to the text above, > condensing down to one paragraph: yes, hardly surprising since many points below were removed :-) > Is the list of WGs supposed to be limited or exhaustive? In addition = to > the missing ones others have pointed out there is TEEP. Not exhaustive, maybe prefix with e.g. > OLD Revision, updates, and extensions related to existing WGs will be > done in those WGs. > NEW Revision, updates, and extensions related to work in existing WGs > will be done in those WGs. I don't object, but I don't hold the pen. =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQEzBAEBCgAdFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmAJppAACgkQgItw+93Q 3WXUGAgArjHLjQYVkJCKrgh57XXF7GQadw0vm6kQlbgR0gWXo+ef+BQ/ZTWngGYw EKtK+d4B0tOUifQSF3zyh6I0HfwaiVzL/rnViO7QJxYNDiPzMUyoHCk7tzBrqIp1 8nyGMVzFia9ls0AmZq5Y0g7a8fZBcOUkB6GHyscY6AqWp89VneL7JM27Dmv3EQdK +qbMxl4dkxlYOyWT5V57pq3ZtZNWNSOFJvxYxFpyv+EoZx9aSR5j+YdLW5pI1eRS 8TRvESXQcLRPIN+qAhCGL4pYJOw0Af0tW4hWgq4zO07UiHx6gbvOLfRmfDxr6CtX BDRk1FeH0xhldEM8ZBJVXKB/PtFECg== =kQ/p -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu Jan 21 09:10:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E28B3A12E7; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 09:10:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.62 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.62 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: MN2PR11MB4366.namprd11.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: ea8deb8d-3bbe-4164-9ed2-08d8be2f640b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Jan 2021 17:10:02.2969 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 5ae1af62-9505-4097-a69a-c1553ef7840e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: cAssQ2U1ZnTiaMykewXXP6EbPuHEdi2Lzy/ab2jIbJX1pMlriTieQvbPVm9kI/7eWxTzGsIyiQ4Rf4vM01oFIA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MN2PR11MB4511 X-OriginatorOrg: cisco.com X-Outbound-SMTP-Client: 173.37.102.14, xch-rcd-004.cisco.com X-Outbound-Node: rcdn-core-12.cisco.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Iotops] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 17:10:11 -0000 SGkgQWxpc3NhLA0KDQpXYXJyZW4gYW5kIEkgaGF2ZSBoYWQgYSBnbyBhdCB1cGRhdGluZyB0aGUg dGV4dCAobXVsdGlwbGUgdGltZXMgZHVlIHRvIGl0IGJlaW5nIHVuaGFwcHkgd2l0aCByZW5kZXJp bmcgb3VyIGZpcnN0IGxpc3QpIHRvIHRyeSBhbmQgYWRkcmVzcyB5b3VyIGJsb2NrIGFuZCB0aGUg b3RoZXIgY29tbWVudHMsIHBsZWFzZSBjYW4geW91IGNoZWNrIHRoZSBsYXRlc3QgY2hhcnRlciB0 ZXh0IHRvIHNlZSBpZiBpdCByZXNvbHZlcyB5b3VyIGJsb2NrLg0KDQpUaGFua3MsDQpSb2INCg0K DQo+IC0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQo+IEZyb206IGllc2cgPGllc2ctYm91bmNl c0BpZXRmLm9yZz4gT24gQmVoYWxmIE9mIE1pY2hhZWwgUmljaGFyZHNvbg0KPiBTZW50OiAyMSBK YW51YXJ5IDIwMjEgMTY6MDcNCj4gVG86IEFsaXNzYSBDb29wZXIgPGFsaXNzYUBjb29wZXJ3Lmlu Pg0KPiBDYzogaW90b3BzLWNoYWlyc0BpZXRmLm9yZzsgVGhlIElFU0cgPGllc2dAaWV0Zi5vcmc+ OyBpb3RvcHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gU3ViamVjdDogUmU6IFtJb3RvcHNdIEFsaXNzYSBDb29wZXIn cyBCbG9jayBvbiBjaGFydGVyLWlldGYtaW90b3BzLTAwLTA5Og0KPiAod2l0aCBCTE9DSyBhbmQg Q09NTUVOVCkNCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBBbGlzc2EgQ29vcGVyIHZpYSBEYXRhdHJhY2tlciA8bm9yZXBs eUBpZXRmLm9yZz4gd3JvdGU6DQo+ICAgICA+IElPVE9QUyB3aWxsIHNvbGljaXQgaW5wdXQgb24g SW9ULWRldmljZS1yZWxhdGVkIG9wZXJhdGlvbmFsIGlzc3Vlcw0KPiBhbmQNCj4gICAgID4gcHJh Y3RpY2VzLCBhbmQgZXhpc3RpbmcgYW5kIHByb3Bvc2VkIHRlY2hub2xvZ2llcyByZWxhdGVkIHRv IHRoZQ0KPiAgICAgPiBkZXBsb3ltZW50LCBvcGVyYXRpb25hbCBtYW5hZ2VtZW50LCBhbmQgbGlm ZWN5Y2xlIG1hbmFnZW1lbnQgb2YgSW9UDQo+ICAgICA+IGRldmljZXMuICBJT1RPUFMgcHJvdmlk ZXMgYSB2ZW51ZSBmb3IgSW9UIGV4cGVydHMgYW5kIG90aGVyDQo+IGludGVyZXN0ZWQNCj4gICAg ID4gcGFydGllcyB0byBlbmdhZ2UgaW4gZGlzY3Vzc2lvbnMgb2YgSW9UIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBv ZiBuZXR3b3JraW5nDQo+ICAgICA+IHN0YW5kYXJkcywgYXMgd2VsbCBhcyBwcm9wb3NhbHMgZm9y IG5ldyB1c2VzIG9mIElQIHRlY2hub2xvZ3kgaW4gSW9UDQo+ICAgICA+IHNwZWNpZmljIHNjZW5h cmlvcy4iDQo+IA0KPiAgICAgPiBDb21wYXJpbmcgdGhpcyB0byB0aGUgbnVtYmVyZWQgbGlzdCBv ZiB3b3JrIGFyZWFzIGF0IHRoZSBlbmQgb2YgdGhlDQo+ICAgICA+IGNoYXJ0ZXIsIGl0IHNlZW1z IHRoYXQgdGhlIG9iamVjdGl2ZSBpcyB0byBiZSBtdWNoIG1vcmUgZm9jdXNlZCB0aGFuDQo+ICAg ICA+IHRoZSB0ZXh0IGFib3ZlIGltcGxpZXMuIEkgd291bGQgc3VnZ2VzdCBzb21lIGVkaXRzIHRv IHRoZSB0ZXh0DQo+IGFib3ZlLA0KPiAgICAgPiBjb25kZW5zaW5nIGRvd24gdG8gb25lIHBhcmFn cmFwaDoNCj4gDQo+IHllcywgaGFyZGx5IHN1cnByaXNpbmcgc2luY2UgbWFueSBwb2ludHMgYmVs b3cgd2VyZSByZW1vdmVkIDotKQ0KPiANCj4gICAgID4gSXMgdGhlIGxpc3Qgb2YgV0dzIHN1cHBv c2VkIHRvIGJlIGxpbWl0ZWQgb3IgZXhoYXVzdGl2ZT8gSW4gYWRkaXRpb24NCj4gdG8NCj4gICAg ID4gdGhlIG1pc3Npbmcgb25lcyBvdGhlcnMgaGF2ZSBwb2ludGVkIG91dCB0aGVyZSBpcyBURUVQ Lg0KPiANCj4gTm90IGV4aGF1c3RpdmUsIG1heWJlIHByZWZpeCB3aXRoIGUuZy4NCj4gDQo+ICAg ICA+IE9MRCBSZXZpc2lvbiwgdXBkYXRlcywgYW5kIGV4dGVuc2lvbnMgcmVsYXRlZCB0byBleGlz dGluZyBXR3Mgd2lsbA0KPiBiZQ0KPiAgICAgPiBkb25lIGluIHRob3NlIFdHcy4NCj4gDQo+ICAg ICA+IE5FVyBSZXZpc2lvbiwgdXBkYXRlcywgYW5kIGV4dGVuc2lvbnMgcmVsYXRlZCB0byB3b3Jr IGluIGV4aXN0aW5nDQo+IFdHcw0KPiAgICAgPiB3aWxsIGJlIGRvbmUgaW4gdGhvc2UgV0dzLg0K PiANCj4gSSBkb24ndCBvYmplY3QsIGJ1dCBJIGRvbid0IGhvbGQgdGhlIHBlbi4NCj4gDQo+IC0t DQo+IE1pY2hhZWwgUmljaGFyZHNvbiA8bWNyK0lFVEZAc2FuZGVsbWFuLmNhPiAgIC4gbyBPICgg SVB2NiBJw7hUIGNvbnN1bHRpbmcgKQ0KPiAgICAgICAgICAgIFNhbmRlbG1hbiBTb2Z0d2FyZSBX b3JrcyBJbmMsIE90dGF3YSBhbmQgV29ybGR3aWRlDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQoNCg== From nobody Thu Jan 21 09:40:09 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietf.org Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE0B63A1263; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 09:40:03 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Alissa Cooper via Datatracker To: "The IESG" Cc: iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: Alissa Cooper Message-ID: <161125080376.14690.13412235086084362990@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 09:40:03 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Iotops] Alissa Cooper's No Objection on charter-ietf-iotops-00-15: (with COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 17:40:04 -0000 Alissa Cooper has entered the following ballot position for charter-ietf-iotops-00-15: No Objection When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this introductory paragraph, however.) The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-iotops/ ---------------------------------------------------------------------- COMMENT: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Thanks for addressing my concerns. The edit below was left out and I think it would make this charter more crisp but it's more editorial. OLD IOTOPS provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested parties to engage in discussions of IoT requirements of networking standards, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology in IoT specific scenarios. NEW IOTOPS provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested parties to engage in discussions of operational IoT requirements, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology related to IoT device and network operations. From nobody Thu Jan 21 11:39:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 08E223A0AF9; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:39:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.36 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.36 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NICE_REPLY_A=-0.262, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eHN6wcPCNOdd; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pj1-x1032.google.com (mail-pj1-x1032.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1032]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 990693A0AF7; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:39:08 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1032.google.com with SMTP id md11so2310933pjb.0; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:39:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date:user-agent :mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=laKbolUGjVXXmw5/PtWmGvgRC16eaFVukRtg8uJlF+E=; b=W10WDHE/a1pEg3k9RsSsXe6ISOAS3rGYN5+xbg02MwunCgtjOZFOhwbt/p4EJiFLu5 cs6K2eZw8MWO46iMLlRwTMdMeD6ANUHarEG6bR7RT4lZip64FC7V2OUyLtW90EDHGMUo tr4/v0QvXPzr+zG20b8uUvVsIjqGt0neT0F/Y71VnVYii4XhKhUI2X7iSJ0Zk3WU6bEz /vKOsNmIxKTXVSRZgu87osH4BBhViqcjdqp2IQHHAG6ta1PBFmtg7oGAkCNj0Azasjga 9seJtkv4KjuJoibRJS+lW86q241GDmFlVqlVNuqBSmjFK7wZXvr4AaaeNmiQEZUUeF2S 8viw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=laKbolUGjVXXmw5/PtWmGvgRC16eaFVukRtg8uJlF+E=; b=CXTEkiqctwYUFG6dEvzWkIezuBaeEEBBfZCkeOhjGXTqJt9SSs+1BU6dvnA09cqBgY XVbJ4eMVRaEM+AA8NIsZ0reX836BoVz9qYh45hJ4DHqsWPUFVH3ttWssmsXmx2FaylMI J/B7nPEsqw9EPaAGHiDxt4a8fO22fCeGDrx8DqwkLyifx7B5Kl0IBLzyezmqm71YNMrG qKuqFjCiYX9mevDH98Q8C2DYCLTZG/qY8DAOjvF4D9e7i/N95/fPhOYPNBQs33Kw3ZCb oi8XUsPOIFjoFfmpIl0472hWY6bF3O3otfCQF6bN+f5S5TINZk2KAZWpUAk5V8QV6bwi TWyA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530RLkHki4KuVBiemSoWMHDZiVPfkBnMFblj/IFs5jUa/peOvqY8 SmTn9MgWekmOoeoDl+GOVC2T7g7WU2MChQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzzLLtiQ/t2ls28+JD0228JHx/jvdWtdJvupIQ1wIBee1BvjPmCCDYDk/tQ8varLrLoo7ZQDQ== X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:a9c5:b029:de:43a0:1498 with SMTP id b5-20020a170902a9c5b02900de43a01498mr851344plr.46.1611257947784; Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:39:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.178.20] ([151.210.131.28]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id x8sm3237786pjf.55.2021.01.21.11.39.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Jan 2021 11:39:07 -0800 (PST) To: Alissa Cooper , The IESG Cc: iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org References: <161123720749.26475.15346633681665853684@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Message-ID: Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 08:39:04 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; WOW64; rv:60.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/60.9.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <161123720749.26475.15346633681665853684@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [Iotops] Alissa Cooper's Block on charter-ietf-iotops-00-09: (with BLOCK and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Jan 2021 19:39:10 -0000 On 22-Jan-21 02:53, Alissa Cooper via Datatracker wrote: ... > (1) I agree with Alvaro that the reference to RFC 8799 is not appropriate in > this charter. Using the well understood "administrative domain" terminology > would be better. fwiw, I am quite happy with the approved text "limited administrative domains". However, one of the implications of RFC 8799 is precisely that it isn't sufficient to limit (or control) a domain administratively. We actually need some secure technology to do so automatically. There's an attempt to state rqeuirements for that at https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc8799.html#name-functional-requirements-of- Regards Brian From nobody Fri Jan 22 11:19:20 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotops@ietf.org Delivered-To: iotops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 473E63A1452; Fri, 22 Jan 2021 11:19:14 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Cc: iotops@ietf.org Reply-To: iesg@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <161134315420.13237.4576082618010535124@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 11:19:14 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Iotops] WG Review: IOT Operations (iotops) X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Jan 2021 19:19:14 -0000 A new IETF WG has been proposed in the Operations and Management Area. The IESG has not made any determination yet. The following draft charter was submitted, and is provided for informational purposes only. Please send your comments to the IESG mailing list (iesg@ietf.org) by 2021-02-01. IOT Operations (iotops) ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Current status: Proposed WG Chairs: Henk Birkholz Alexey Melnikov Assigned Area Director: Warren Kumari Operations and Management Area Directors: Warren Kumari Robert Wilton Mailing list: Address: iotops@ietf.org To subscribe: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iotops Archive: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/iotops/ Group page: https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/iotops/ Charter: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/charter-ietf-iotops/ The IOTOPS Working Group is chartered for the discussion of operational issues related to Internet of Things (IoT) devices, in particular related to device onboarding and lifecycle management. IoT has a rather nebulous definition with different meanings for different people. For the purposes of this WG, its focus is on devices that - are networked, either to the Internet or within limited administrative domains - have a very limited end user interface or no end-user interface at all - are deployed in sufficiently large numbers that they cannot easily be managed or maintained manually The IETF works on a number of technologies related to IoT. This includes, but is not limited to work done in ACE, ANIMA, CBOR, CORE, DRIP, LAKE, LPWAN, LWIG, ROLL, SUIT, TEEP, 6LO, 6TISCH, and other working groups. IOTOPS is intended to be a discussion venue where people can discuss how various IoT-related technologies fit together. IOTOPS provides a venue for IoT experts and other interested parties to engage in discussions of operational IoT requirements, as well as proposals for new uses of IP technology related to IoT device and network operations. Revision, updates, and extensions to work from existing WGs will be done in those WGs. Where new protocols may be needed, IOTOPS will help identify candidate venues within IETF for their development. IOTOPS WG charter is restricted to: 1) Taking input and discussing issues related to the operational management of IoT devices. This includes (but is not limited to): - factory provisioning of devices - onboarding of devices - access control of devices to network resources - administrative control of devices - software/firmware upgrades - isolation/quarantine of devices - remediation of broken devices - end of life management of devices 2) Discussing issues related to IoT operational security. 3) Publishing operational practice. 4) Documenting requirements. 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Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:06:52 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: iotops-chairs@ietf.org, iotops@ietf.org, lflynn@amsl.com, warren@kumari.net X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.24.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <161194721175.18938.4564951117986715857@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 11:06:52 -0800 Archived-At: Subject: [Iotops] iotops - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 110 X-BeenThere: iotops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IOT Operations List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Jan 2021 19:06:52 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Liz Flynn, on behalf of the iotops working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: IOT Operations Area Name: Operations and Management Area Session Requester: Liz Flynn Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 1 Hour Number of Attendees: 100 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: dmarc emailcore opsawg extra jmap Technology Overlap: ace anima cbor core drip lake lpwan lwig roll suit teep 6lo 6tisch Key Participant Conflict: rats People who must be present: Alexey Melnikov Warren "Ace" Kumari Henk Birkholz Resources Requested: Special Requests: ---------------------------------------------------------