From nobody Wed Aug 3 08:38:26 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F5312B058 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 08:38:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.92 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.92 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FnQYND_0A8dL for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 08:38:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lizzard.sbs.de (lizzard.sbs.de [194.138.37.39]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4ADDD12B024 for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 08:37:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1.sbs.de (mail1.sbs.de [192.129.41.35]) by lizzard.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id u73FavjP015418 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 17:36:58 +0200 Received: from DEFTHW99ERKMSX.ww902.siemens.net (defthw99erkmsx.ww902.siemens.net [139.22.70.147]) by mail1.sbs.de (8.15.2/8.15.2) with ESMTPS id u73FavWY031720 (version=TLSv1 cipher=AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL) for ; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 17:36:57 +0200 Received: from DEFTHW99ER1MSX.ww902.siemens.net (139.22.70.71) by DEFTHW99ERKMSX.ww902.siemens.net (139.22.70.147) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.301.0; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 17:36:57 +0200 Received: from DEFTHW99EL4MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([169.254.5.89]) by DEFTHW99ER1MSX.ww902.siemens.net ([139.22.70.71]) with mapi id 14.03.0301.000; Wed, 3 Aug 2016 17:36:56 +0200 From: "Kovatsch, Matthias" To: "iotsi@iab.org" Thread-Topic: 1st International Workshop on Semantic Interoperability for the IoT (SIFI) Thread-Index: AdHtnN0+z1sbIOJsQK+8Su8ZGvEboA== Date: Wed, 3 Aug 2016 15:36:55 +0000 Message-ID: <4EBB3DDD0FBF694CA2A87838DF129B3C0184BE99@DEFTHW99EL4MSX.ww902.siemens.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: de-DE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [139.22.70.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: Subject: [Iotsi] 1st International Workshop on Semantic Interoperability for the IoT (SIFI) X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Aug 2016 15:38:24 -0000 Dear all We are trying to get an academic community together that is interested in t= he sweetspot between semantics and practical IoT applications! This is dire= ctly related to the work in the IRTF T2TRG and the WoT IG. The workshop wil= l be co-located with the 6th International Conference on the Internet of Th= ings (IoT 2016) will take place November 7-9, 2016=A0in Stuttgart, Germany. http://sifi-workshop.github.io/ ## Call for Papers The International Workshop on Semantic Interoperability for the IoT (SIFI) = targets authors from the Semantic Web and the Internet of Things (IoT) appl= ication layer to form a community that explores machine-understandable info= rmation and interaction models for Thing-to-Thing communication. While the = IoT promises products and higher-value services based on the widespread and= integrated use of connected devices, we are currently witnessing applicati= on silos with custom interfaces, heterogeneous network communication mechan= isms, and individual data models. The workshop aims to overcome scenario-dr= iven, not reusable, isolated islands of solutions, so that everyday objects= are not only network-enabled, but can finally participate in integrated sc= enarios. The challenges include: * __Connectivity and Integration:__ There is a heterogeneous landscape of b= oth wired and wireless communication standards to fulfill different applica= tion requirements. Manual integration via gateways increases the implementa= tion effort and the complexity of the solutions. * __Information Models:__ Each application usually comes with its own data = model, although the information about the physical world is relevant even a= cross application domains. The IoT requires shared formats and models so th= at information can be understood and interpreted by all applications. * __Security and Privacy:__ Each IoT platform typically comes with its own = security mechanisms and policies. To make use of a common information model= and interact with integrated IoT devices, these must be declared in a mach= ine-understandable manner. * __Flexibility and Scalability:__ IT systems have usually been developed a= nd deploying with only the current or immediate future needs in mind. IoT s= ystems need to be able to handle change and evolve with their environment, = in particular when being part of long-lived infrastructure. * __Monitoring and Analysis:__ IoT systems will produce a huge stream of qu= asi real-time data. This requires innovative ways to analyze and assess inf= ormation to notify users in time or even to act autonomously. The first SIFI workshop primarily seeks position papers to gather researche= rs who want to follow a practical approach of Semantic Web technology or wh= o want to enrich their IoT applications, protocols, and security profiles w= ith semantic information. Promising concepts and solutions may be pursued f= urther within the IRTF [Thing-to-Thing Research Group](https://github.com/t= 2trg/) and the W3C [Web of Things Interest Group](https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG= /). ## Important Dates * __Paper submission deadline:__ September 19, 2016 * __Notification of acceptance:__ October 10, 2016 * __Camera-ready papers due:__ October 24, 2016 * __Workshop date:__ t.b.d. (November 7-9, 2016) ## Submissions * __Position paper (preferred):__ 1-4 ACM conference format pages * __Full paper (limited slots):__ 6-8 ACM conference format pages Both types of research paper must be original prior unpublished work and no= t under review elsewhere as they will be published to the ACM digital libra= ry and listed on DBLP. All submissions will be peer-reviewed and selected b= ased on their originality, merit, and relevance to the workshop. Submission= requires at least one author to present the paper on-site. If you can, we = encourage authors of accepted papers to bring a prototype and demonstrate i= t at the workshop, as part of an open demonstration session. ## Organizers * Matthias Kovatsch - Siemens AG and ETH Zurich, DE/CH * Maria Maleshkova - KIT, DE * Michael Mrissa - Universit=E9 de Pau, FR From nobody Mon Aug 22 12:23:25 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28F9C12D134; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:23:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.689 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.689 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nhAFSknRpTVp; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-oi0-x22a.google.com (mail-oi0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4003:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62F5C12D756; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:23:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-oi0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id f189so165671678oig.3; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:23:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=pro7yZU9GOg2G8dsuLBqk5ATDlKG8UqhxQd6PtJc1gA=; b=ELjiGfdXZXUxnUfqopvTyFqBfOB2xHjNoxMEJF5EXpEKMAD9qaYg8+uDv8KXFzuatP I3Lc8tTih7ezBUcedos+4mEjfiDBvmcWLvg4tJZXgQZQt/p4LpTMz7nsh+CxHnsd2mNw O2gz5cXdHcbMyj7/XexAhNUl8TT1KGd+t5JUMG29ARYPBE3pIa5nUaxmWWUUYGxRX3i8 q4lMUZ3nUK5XjJ2cOmgz7Xy8Nql0gA3wBVUOPRKfXDKV3DThITG7WGrPZt4ukW6WKg3s ANoerIxebxAtkOmPAQt6ONnZ7RrbxqA5vK7SrvXhNffhYoatIwtOTEk8fZ1M1msJ4xB2 TUSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=pro7yZU9GOg2G8dsuLBqk5ATDlKG8UqhxQd6PtJc1gA=; b=SRDzTamEdKksAByjOIzTSl4JWsTynS83MLbL2cBHiO1IBP6M8sW8qLKG7jBFQP5PfG JAPGnt3eSUw4SQdRXbrqWooFkgFEROFcTPcj35EDNl73ctnqUfA+M+m1LnVACvkz4eTR x2MrtgdATIuX6ea/U0Ry2Do6sj5r44l3RhD7xd70C2TIM/DjGOaBo/4GpZlzjkUOlSa0 FqeGAUk/U5m/C0sL37dKd52UTzUznlp22W3/daeEFWFi7eVLhidsHqeciS/bNYBuguF6 SmctIJndjmFr9yogVhNMxWVeDTBNFgBJZ1yZB6JYubQ7F68+2qIlmoB0qYJeSbxkUPcE XCsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouvlnmOO/yOwv6FbGTp//rlVM5c8DDbHhtG9b+8agINHBXTW6LGmHlSfT+NS+kftwnEMO4msMbSHywYkJQ== X-Received: by 10.157.18.168 with SMTP id g37mr14872685otg.48.1471893801232; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:23:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.202.78.138 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:22:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Ted Hardie Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 12:22:50 -0700 Message-ID: To: Internet Architecture Board , iotsi@iab.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c03bfd62b714b053aadfb15 Archived-At: Subject: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 19:23:24 -0000 --94eb2c03bfd62b714b053aadfb15 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Howdy, As you may remember from the IOTSI workshop, there was some discussion about setting up a "Rosetta stone" site for schemas and ontologies related to IoT devices and systems. Some of the folks in that conversation have had some further discussion about the prospect with the folks at schema.org, which does a similar thing for web-based schemas. That resulted in schema.org folks volunteering to set up an "iot.schema.org", which is meant to help both "things" and services interoperate on a semantic level, as a common look-up site for types, properties, and enumerated values for structured data found in IoT. *There is a short paper outlining the initial work here and a mailing list . * *If you are interested, *please do join the mailing list. (Since some of the folks were not part of IOTSI or other IAB efforts, it might be good when you do to introduce yourself) *.* regards, Ted --94eb2c03bfd62b714b053aadfb15 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Howdy,

As you may remember from the IO= TSI workshop, there was some discussion about setting up a "Rosetta st= one" site for schemas and ontologies related to IoT devices and system= s.=C2=A0 Some of the folks in that conversation have had some further discu= ssion about the prospect with the folks at sc= hema.org, which does a similar thing for web-based schemas.=C2=A0=C2=A0= That resulted in schema.org folks volunt= eering to set up an "iot.schema.org<= /a>", which is meant to help both "things" and services inte= roperate on a semantic level, as a common look-up site for types, propertie= s, and enumerated values for structured data found in IoT.


The= re is a short paper ou= tlining the initial work here an= d a ma= iling list.
<= /p>=

If you are interested,= please do join the mailing list.=C2= =A0 (Since some of the folks were not part of IOTSI or other IAB efforts, i= t might be good when you do to introduce yourself).

regards,

Ted
=
--94eb2c03bfd62b714b053aadfb15-- From nobody Mon Aug 22 13:20:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 977CE12D7F6; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:20:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FORGED_FROMDOMAIN=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HEADER_FROM_DIFFERENT_DOMAINS=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RWFqWm5lGbWI; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb0-x242.google.com (mail-yb0-x242.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4002:c09::242]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7152812D178; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:20:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb0-x242.google.com with SMTP id e31so3229170ybi.0; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:20:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id :subject:to:cc; bh=nUp9OK43MrgAplLtWyK/JJJy3vUH8o+hPUoeZRdZ5UA=; b=Dnsw2yyB4RSyTy96uXG7RBw0RFY/gvZLe58F0xygl/m99wPYKyyX/eWW0CEbesFwxj 6ry4QvzDx8T0gKSi4nxCEBNHJAGIKKCK6XxKeh3nho+TyvLuKwWAAAqj0HIFqIxvZb3h ZMCRVFpRwTIvyvVn8D2BX3JsHfoKIe+npVgREkPn6LwqNWcXOjIONxOeigt4Uqze+7Wc HtRf4ZW3i0Cq3R+Y1Xrt4l72UNCIFg0dQQ/OT4Fgp4Q2c9z8vqoZyXoxrP7gsx2QLbBB ZQ+o68pLQfbDGx+Mw6Gp6DofNHC91FoiB3UEDymV9o7Z/hlTtFIPPsXkmdWeBzgvQx54 LKHQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:from :date:message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=nUp9OK43MrgAplLtWyK/JJJy3vUH8o+hPUoeZRdZ5UA=; b=V/42txMscvbH6+gutow5RTw3Pud4DUAkB+GKUEjxazWdVc8RND896PuUo8tA/Fo+RB MoRUP4/DEdXJq63W1rjIXDplDQItfi+YRppR6ySp5vXTO5wvGz61EcJKJmcdMofSuDQ6 UOgidyrZMfXie89b4p4wQMm+9AWP8Jr0NGBpmADBLjqMLRMSUYkPlCZLBjDemse9v3SB PIiyCL3XNmx7cZYoLfe+pkQ+nGEdUBEsMjtOTVziYemum2Bu2iat7TaNWukYqCOTAXor O0daQW0bzTllwLKKf/ZqzHHM2Lrb100arHgalRa3KZPTHbg7/dHZPZiBmm23nJU5btlP KMAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AEkoouvuNMk7fjCL8tPyfFAR88ynIDaCQcTzLBE6XRKHGPqpSWUXD3zjZFFPmpPU5UP+2HVT2Jor5Bt8CMIoUQ== X-Received: by 10.37.220.4 with SMTP id y4mr18705505ybe.150.1471897215514; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:20:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: davidjanes@gmail.com Received: by 10.13.201.1 with HTTP; Mon, 22 Aug 2016 13:19:55 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: From: David Janes Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 16:19:55 -0400 X-Google-Sender-Auth: FD0MIMJ73jQu5qVf2Q6qMKW6EO4 Message-ID: To: Ted Hardie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=94eb2c18ede8ad3f92053aaec67e Archived-At: Cc: iotsi@iab.org, Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 22 Aug 2016 20:20:18 -0000 --94eb2c18ede8ad3f92053aaec67e Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Hi Ted, everyone, Great idea. I'd just like to strong suggest that IOTDB would get mentioned, which is built exactly upon the concepts being mentioning - i.e. core indivisible concepts "atoms" related to IoT (such as turning things on and off, setting the temperature, changing the color, "am I measuring", "am I sensing", etc), and building on top of schema.org Here's the position paper submitted to the IAB https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2016/03/2016-02-IOTDB- Interoperability-Through-Semantic-Metastandards.pdf And here's the vocabularies https://iotdb.org/pub/iot-purpose.html https://iotdb.org/pub/iot-purpose.jsonld https://github.com/dpjanes/iotdb-vocabulary/tree/master/ src/iot-purpose/Purpose Regards, etc.... David On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Ted Hardie wrote: > Howdy, > > As you may remember from the IOTSI workshop, there was some discussion > about setting up a "Rosetta stone" site for schemas and ontologies related > to IoT devices and systems. Some of the folks in that conversation have > had some further discussion about the prospect with the folks at > schema.org, which does a similar thing for web-based schemas. That > resulted in schema.org folks volunteering to set up an "iot.schema.org", > which is meant to help both "things" and services interoperate on a > semantic level, as a common look-up site for types, properties, and > enumerated values for structured data found in IoT. > > > > > *There is a short paper outlining the initial work here > > and a mailing list . * > *If you are interested, *please do join the mailing list. (Since some of > the folks were not part of IOTSI or other IAB efforts, it might be good > when you do to introduce yourself) > *.* > regards, > > Ted > > _______________________________________________ > Iotsi mailing list > Iotsi@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/iotsi > > --94eb2c18ede8ad3f92053aaec67e Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Ted, everyone,

Great idea.
<= br>
I'd just like to strong suggest that IOTDB would get ment= ioned, which is built exactly upon the concepts being mentioning - i.e. cor= e indivisible concepts "atoms" related to IoT (such as turning th= ings on and off, setting the temperature, changing the color, "am I me= asuring", "am I sensing", etc), and building on top of schema.org

Here's the position paper submitted to the IAB

On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Howdy,

As you may remember from the IOTSI worksho= p, there was some discussion about setting up a "Rosetta stone" s= ite for schemas and ontologies related to IoT devices and systems.=C2=A0 So= me of the folks in that conversation have had some further discussion about= the prospect with the folks at schema.org, which does a similar thing for web-based schemas.=C2= =A0=C2=A0 That resulted in = schema.org folks volunteering to set up an "iot.schema.org", which is meant to h= elp both "things" and services interoperate on a semantic level, = as a common look-up site for types, properties, and enumerated values for s= tructured data found in IoT.


There is a short paper ou= tlining the initial work here an= d a mailing list.=


If you are interested, pleas= e do join the mailing list.=C2=A0 (Since some of the folks were not part of= IOTSI or other IAB efforts, it might be good when you do to introduce your= self).

regar= ds,

Ted<= b style=3D"font-weight:normal">

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--94eb2c18ede8ad3f92053aaec67e-- From tim@coote.org Tue Aug 23 01:58:32 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ED95C12D8A4 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:58:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=coote.org header.b=UPVpgwGa; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=coote.org header.b=nf+sH08F Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JKW9dfhnfbs1 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.coote.org (575185b4.skybroadband.com [87.81.133.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1957412D890 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 01:58:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mercury.coote.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 3B12A16C1330; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:58:28 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mercury.coote.org 3B12A16C1330 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1471942708; bh=/dLd4+B9bpyubQWYAVVKoSpch7FyVMYIY9DfEHD3rSo=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=UPVpgwGaroDdi0D2uII7R8TUKeiLQn5G66sBE302y6qNWtWO4RkN9I/OSZjvaXsQC UOVhrxFDpLHpXcPGI1/VxC1MjIlKfsuWjBwX9u/qs/w4D0UmG7SuZqwE9WiUwbWI4j pc8bVAjBAoqvge8RYZtZ3UUAoOmvikFC4KNjEFpw= X-Original-To: iotsi@iab.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mercury.coote.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 651A916C1137; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:58:27 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mercury.coote.org 651A916C1137 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1471942707; bh=/dLd4+B9bpyubQWYAVVKoSpch7FyVMYIY9DfEHD3rSo=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=nf+sH08F5F8Gc/R0Xuwb05DnvLjbGJ9j8j0fcmZOctm+KOM0PLbBstEc+9ptPKKam YV0Y0w6sF7ydBam4x3o0fViu0vi+gjdTrmHi/e6JMQ96DMV/J9UxwA6QqNR+WMSjQ1 KEGN83cQhqwfXxCkwUB5qvTFe3dgSa3C0kG13zZ0= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_2531587F-A453-4A4B-9220-8C550892BF20" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Tim Coote In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:58:26 +0100 Message-Id: References: To: David Janes X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-Spambayes-Classification: ham; 0.00 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:35:26 -0700 Cc: iotsi@iab.org, Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 09:11:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_2531587F-A453-4A4B-9220-8C550892BF20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hullo Based on practical experience, one of the biggest challenges is to have = a view of the overall system state. This is partly covered in the = concepts of interim (interstitial?) states in this paper, but bugs and = potential bugs in composed components need to be accounted for (I = think). This degree of uncertainty can be modelled, but probably not in = the hardware scope of Things themselves as they tend to be = under-powered.* However, there is a significant issue that the deployed Things do not = necessarily tell (or know) the truth about what they are or their = current state. *Is there a taxonomy for the different types of =E2=80=98Thing=E2=80=99: = I=E2=80=99ve previously distinguished between the real-world, the = sensors/actuators that interact with the real world, the software = representations of the sensors/actuators and compositions of such = software representations (which must still support minimal behaviours = such as re-initialise). tc=20 > On 22 Aug 2016, at 21:19, David Janes > wrote: >=20 > Hi Ted, everyone, >=20 > Great idea. >=20 > I'd just like to strong suggest that IOTDB would get mentioned, which = is built exactly upon the concepts being mentioning - i.e. core = indivisible concepts "atoms" related to IoT (such as turning things on = and off, setting the temperature, changing the color, "am I measuring", = "am I sensing", etc), and building on top of schema.org = >=20 > Here's the position paper submitted to the IAB >=20 > = https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2016/03/2016-02-IOTDB-Interoper= ability-Through-Semantic-Metastandards.pdf = >=20 > And here's the vocabularies =20 >=20 > https://iotdb.org/pub/iot-purpose.html = > https://iotdb.org/pub/iot-purpose.jsonld = > = https://github.com/dpjanes/iotdb-vocabulary/tree/master/src/iot-purpose/Pu= rpose = >=20 > Regards, etc.... > David >=20 > On Mon, Aug 22, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Ted Hardie > wrote: > Howdy, >=20 > As you may remember from the IOTSI workshop, there was some discussion = about setting up a "Rosetta stone" site for schemas and ontologies = related to IoT devices and systems. Some of the folks in that = conversation have had some further discussion about the prospect with = the folks at schema.org , which does a similar thing = for web-based schemas. That resulted in schema.org = folks volunteering to set up an "iot.schema.org = ", which is meant to help both "things" and = services interoperate on a semantic level, as a common look-up site for = types, properties, and enumerated values for structured data found in = IoT. >=20 > There is a short paper outlining the initial work here = and a mailing list = . =20 >=20 > If you are interested, please do join the mailing list. (Since some = of the folks were not part of IOTSI or other IAB efforts, it might be = good when you do to introduce yourself). >=20 > regards, >=20 > Ted >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Iotsi mailing list > Iotsi@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/iotsi = >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Iotsi mailing list > Iotsi@iab.org > https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/iotsi = --Apple-Mail=_2531587F-A453-4A4B-9220-8C550892BF20 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hullo

Based on = practical experience, one of the biggest challenges is to have a view of = the overall system state. This is partly covered in the concepts of = interim (interstitial?) states in this paper, but bugs and potential = bugs in composed components need to be accounted for (I think). This = degree of uncertainty can be modelled, but probably not in the hardware = scope of Things themselves as they tend to be under-powered.*

However, there is a = significant issue that the deployed Things do not necessarily tell (or = know) the truth about what they are or their current state.

*Is there a taxonomy for = the different types of =E2=80=98Thing=E2=80=99: I=E2=80=99ve previously = distinguished between the real-world, the sensors/actuators that = interact with the real world, the software representations of the = sensors/actuators and compositions of such software representations = (which must still support minimal behaviours such as = re-initialise).

tc 
On 22 Aug 2016, at 21:19, David = Janes <davidjanes@davidjanes.com> wrote:

Hi Ted, everyone,

Great idea.

I'd just like to strong suggest that = IOTDB would get mentioned, which is built exactly upon the concepts = being mentioning - i.e. core indivisible concepts "atoms" related to IoT = (such as turning things on and off, setting the temperature, changing = the color, "am I measuring", "am I sensing", etc), and building on top = of schema.org

Here's the position paper submitted to the IAB

https://www.iab.org/wp-content/IAB-uploads/2016/03/2016-02-IOTDB-Interoperability-Through-Semantic-Metastandards.pdf

And here's the = vocabularies  

https://iotdb.org/pub/iot-purpose.html
https://iotdb.org/pub/iot-purpose.jsonld
https://github.com/dpjanes/iotdb-vocabulary/tree/master/src/iot-purpose/Purpose

Regards, = etc....
David

On Mon, = Aug 22, 2016 at 3:22 PM, Ted Hardie <ted.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
Howdy,

As you may = remember from the IOTSI workshop, there was some discussion about = setting up a "Rosetta stone" site for schemas and ontologies related to = IoT devices and systems.  Some of the folks in that conversation = have had some further discussion about the prospect with the folks at schema.org, = which does a similar thing for web-based schemas.   That = resulted in schema.org folks volunteering to set up an "iot.schema.org", which is meant to help both "things" and = services interoperate on a semantic level, as a common look-up site for = types, properties, and enumerated values for structured data found in = IoT.

There is a short = paper outlining the = initial work here and a mailing = list.

If you are interested, please do join the mailing = list.  (Since some of the folks were not part of IOTSI or other IAB = efforts, it might be good when you do to introduce yourself).

regards,

Ted

_______________________________________________
Iotsi mailing list
Iotsi@iab.org
https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/iotsi


_______________________________________________
Iotsi = mailing list
Iotsi@iab.org
https://www.iab.org/mailman/listinfo/iotsi

= --Apple-Mail=_2531587F-A453-4A4B-9220-8C550892BF20-- From nobody Tue Aug 23 03:52:51 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F67B12D933; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:52:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.07 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.07 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vNoioOoLzJLY; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:52:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-4.cisco.com (aer-iport-4.cisco.com [173.38.203.54]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 21CE312D0ED; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:52:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=2605; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1471949567; x=1473159167; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=9ivJh1IB5wZK9XyQWmuBTMC8DX2TOPJohocxd6cJfTE=; b=fYTElg52btqH9KW91Xio6vjFsQibqdMEWWODX0Jzrlc4CsLCfvLlPJ/U UFpqwpV3c5oXw7eXUPhYrV3X4krDU+i/fhEdRirqqIVNFkhHkiwPQOx6i 9y4oZY7TWOhroLGgdya/jmf8fl2ipL935xXodZBPnrAEbmbcxVhqeh+LS Q=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CxBACEKrxX/xbLJq1egykBAQEBAXIqU?= =?us-ascii?q?rgGgX0chgECgiQSAgEBAQEBAQFeJ4RhAQUjVhALGCoCAlcGAQwIAQGILa5ekAM?= =?us-ascii?q?BAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQERDoglCIJNh0GCWgEEiDGRF4M+gXNviQGCO4ceh?= =?us-ascii?q?XeQOSULJIN8OjSGEQEBAQ?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,565,1464652800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="645879272" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Aug 2016 10:52:45 +0000 Received: from [10.61.107.145] (dhcp-10-61-107-145.cisco.com [10.61.107.145]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u7NAqiHW020540; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:52:44 GMT To: Tim Coote , David Janes References: From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:52:44 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="cHVTgheOD0Ts5eK4oJvRBKIIx4dRRX72u" Archived-At: Cc: iotsi@iab.org, Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:52:49 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --cHVTgheOD0Ts5eK4oJvRBKIIx4dRRX72u Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="w24PsAF8LtQ4ucDh5I4ICfJppNluIdk9a" From: Eliot Lear To: Tim Coote , David Janes Cc: iotsi@iab.org, Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org References: In-Reply-To: --w24PsAF8LtQ4ucDh5I4ICfJppNluIdk9a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, On 8/23/16 10:58 AM, Tim Coote wrote: > Hullo > > Based on practical experience, one of the biggest challenges is to > have a view of the overall system state. This is partly covered in the > concepts of interim (interstitial?) states in this paper, but bugs and > potential bugs in composed components need to be accounted for (I > think). This degree of uncertainty can be modelled, but probably not > in the hardware scope of Things themselves as they tend to be > under-powered.* > > However, there is a significant issue that the deployed Things do not > necessarily tell (or know) the truth about what they are or their > current state. This is the exact use case we have focused on in our work. The approach we take to address that is MUD+802.1AR so that assertions are made by the manufacturer of the Thing and not the Thing itself. I'll have more to say about the latter later. Eliot --w24PsAF8LtQ4ucDh5I4ICfJppNluIdk9a-- --cHVTgheOD0Ts5eK4oJvRBKIIx4dRRX72u Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJXvCr8AAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozVUIH/10apDtkD7ahfiMq+On4aoMc xSUmqHnvcsA+3wsGNlqPJkz/NERDM8YDL6u8+WoBqA3esespE5pW+013NSwvrBVc xQYVGBQh6Pnr9qH+GFIIl2YKrVM5fU7KaX9gpa4Pnm+AJQw5r3mhscWVxUPN4ZPR tqXy80U0ayLF9cVqJr5e6xZh/XVHgoaieQijoZdJ/wsRKkZZFSUO0loqo9oDWx7c POeIiXv6jvmzXQ+hAsNCys9I70hoxIcHpVXSA4dYKU4gVqUe9EHTWOAc6/cd+sFA MU1z7sBYoagCiSJqxJnMWPk46qznZqK3BIutFrE5amMrTmDWrUogMxCxHC0E5d8= =+yoH -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --cHVTgheOD0Ts5eK4oJvRBKIIx4dRRX72u-- From nobody Tue Aug 23 03:57:01 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39F3712D0AA for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 03:56:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.111 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.111 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:56:52 +0100 Received: from HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.175.34.148) by HE1PR0802MB2476.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.175.34.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA_P384) id 15.1.587.9; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:56:50 +0000 Received: from HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.175.34.148]) by HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.175.34.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0587.013; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:56:50 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: Eliot Lear , Tim Coote , David Janes Thread-Topic: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org Thread-Index: AQHR/Kqr3hMKG6+WdEitaKovx/7MeaBVa8KAgADT7QCAAB/vAIAAAKDA Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:56:50 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [195.149.223.166] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bd8768c7-3b07-4201-9ffc-08d3cb442f79 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR0802MB2476; H:HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Aug 2016 10:56:50.2795 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0802MB2476 X-MC-Unique: YCEfNGCHM9SeQO7WZwQBMw-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 10:56:59 -0000 RWxpb3QsIFRpbSwNCg0KSSBiZWxpZXZlIHlvdSBhcmUgdGFsa2luZyBhYm91dCB0d28gZGlmZmVy ZW50IHR5cGVzIG9mIHN0YXRlcy4NCg0KVGhlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHlvdSBhcmUgdGFsa2luZyBh Ym91dCwgRWxpb3QsIGlzIHJhdGhlciBzdGF0aWMgYW5kIGRvZXMgbm90IGNoYW5nZSB3aGVyZWFz IG15IHJlYWRpbmcgb2YgdGhlIGVtYWlsIFRpbSBzZW50IHdhcyBtb3JlIGFib3V0IGluZm9ybWF0 aW9uIHRoYXQgc2Vuc29yIGFuZCBhY3R1YXRvcnMgZXhoaWJpdC4NCg0KSXMgbXkgdW5kZXJzdGFu ZGluZyBjb3JyZWN0PyBUaW0sIG1heWJlIHlvdSBjYW4gZWxhYm9yYXRlIGEgYml0IG1vcmUgYWJv dXQgdGhlICcgb3ZlcmFsbCBzeXN0ZW0gc3RhdGUnIHlvdSBhcmUgcmVmZXJyaW5nIHRvLg0KDQpD aWFvDQpIYW5uZXMNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IElvdHNpIFtt YWlsdG86aW90c2ktYm91bmNlc0BpYWIub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgRWxpb3QgTGVhcg0KU2Vu dDogMjMgQXVndXN0IDIwMTYgMTI6NTMNClRvOiBUaW0gQ29vdGU7IERhdmlkIEphbmVzDQpDYzog aW90c2lAaWFiLm9yZzsgVGVkIEhhcmRpZTsgSW50ZXJuZXQgQXJjaGl0ZWN0dXJlIEJvYXJkDQpT dWJqZWN0OiBSZTogW0lvdHNpXSBOZXcgSW9UIGVmZm9ydCBhdCBzY2hlbWEub3JnDQoNCkhpIFRp bSwNCg0KDQpPbiA4LzIzLzE2IDEwOjU4IEFNLCBUaW0gQ29vdGUgd3JvdGU6DQo+IEh1bGxvDQo+ DQo+IEJhc2VkIG9uIHByYWN0aWNhbCBleHBlcmllbmNlLCBvbmUgb2YgdGhlIGJpZ2dlc3QgY2hh bGxlbmdlcyBpcyB0bw0KPiBoYXZlIGEgdmlldyBvZiB0aGUgb3ZlcmFsbCBzeXN0ZW0gc3RhdGUu IFRoaXMgaXMgcGFydGx5IGNvdmVyZWQgaW4gdGhlDQo+IGNvbmNlcHRzIG9mIGludGVyaW0gKGlu dGVyc3RpdGlhbD8pIHN0YXRlcyBpbiB0aGlzIHBhcGVyLCBidXQgYnVncyBhbmQNCj4gcG90ZW50 aWFsIGJ1Z3MgaW4gY29tcG9zZWQgY29tcG9uZW50cyBuZWVkIHRvIGJlIGFjY291bnRlZCBmb3Ig KEkNCj4gdGhpbmspLiBUaGlzIGRlZ3JlZSBvZiB1bmNlcnRhaW50eSBjYW4gYmUgbW9kZWxsZWQs IGJ1dCBwcm9iYWJseSBub3QNCj4gaW4gdGhlIGhhcmR3YXJlIHNjb3BlIG9mIFRoaW5ncyB0aGVt c2VsdmVzIGFzIHRoZXkgdGVuZCB0byBiZQ0KPiB1bmRlci1wb3dlcmVkLioNCj4NCj4gSG93ZXZl ciwgdGhlcmUgaXMgYSBzaWduaWZpY2FudCBpc3N1ZSB0aGF0IHRoZSBkZXBsb3llZCBUaGluZ3Mg ZG8gbm90DQo+IG5lY2Vzc2FyaWx5IHRlbGwgKG9yIGtub3cpIHRoZSB0cnV0aCBhYm91dCB3aGF0 IHRoZXkgYXJlIG9yIHRoZWlyDQo+IGN1cnJlbnQgc3RhdGUuDQoNClRoaXMgaXMgdGhlIGV4YWN0 IHVzZSBjYXNlIHdlIGhhdmUgZm9jdXNlZCBvbiBpbiBvdXIgd29yay4gIFRoZSBhcHByb2FjaCB3 ZSB0YWtlIHRvIGFkZHJlc3MgdGhhdCBpcyBNVUQrODAyLjFBUiBzbyB0aGF0IGFzc2VydGlvbnMg YXJlIG1hZGUgYnkgdGhlIG1hbnVmYWN0dXJlciBvZiB0aGUgVGhpbmcgYW5kIG5vdCB0aGUgVGhp bmcgaXRzZWxmLiAgSSdsbCBoYXZlIG1vcmUgdG8gc2F5IGFib3V0IHRoZSBsYXR0ZXIgbGF0ZXIu DQoNCkVsaW90DQoNCg0KSU1QT1JUQU5UIE5PVElDRTogVGhlIGNvbnRlbnRzIG9mIHRoaXMgZW1h aWwgYW5kIGFueSBhdHRhY2htZW50cyBhcmUgY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIGFuZCBtYXkgYWxzbyBiZSBw cml2aWxlZ2VkLiBJZiB5b3UgYXJlIG5vdCB0aGUgaW50ZW5kZWQgcmVjaXBpZW50LCBwbGVhc2Ug bm90aWZ5IHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHkgYW5kIGRvIG5vdCBkaXNjbG9zZSB0aGUgY29u dGVudHMgdG8gYW55IG90aGVyIHBlcnNvbiwgdXNlIGl0IGZvciBhbnkgcHVycG9zZSwgb3Igc3Rv cmUgb3IgY29weSB0aGUgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaW4gYW55IG1lZGl1bS4gVGhhbmsgeW91Lg0K From nobody Tue Aug 23 04:06:56 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F8CA12D0E1; 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Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:06:46 GMT To: Hannes Tschofenig , Tim Coote , David Janes References: From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:06:46 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="OiTdOCeEc2oAWxbFLuota8PI9MhuB8l14" Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:06:55 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --OiTdOCeEc2oAWxbFLuota8PI9MhuB8l14 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="USaw5T38cxrgNQwOhmgtl7cr7MDBFP5kX" From: Eliot Lear To: Hannes Tschofenig , Tim Coote , David Janes Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Message-ID: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org References: In-Reply-To: --USaw5T38cxrgNQwOhmgtl7cr7MDBFP5kX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Hannes, On 8/23/16 12:56 PM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: > Eliot, Tim, > > I believe you are talking about two different types of states. > > The information you are talking about, Eliot, is rather static and does= not change whereas my reading of the email Tim sent was more about infor= mation that sensor and actuators exhibit. > > Is my understanding correct? Tim, maybe you can elaborate a bit more ab= out the ' overall system state' you are referring to. Tim wrote: > However, there is a significant issue that the deployed Things do not > necessarily tell (or know) the truth about what they are or their > current state. It's the "who they are" part below that I'm working on now. That's what MUD+802.1AR gives you. In that case, as I wrote, the assertion is from the manufacturer of the Thing, and not the Thing itself. As to the device's operational state, that gets us into other areas that is not unique to Things, and leads us toward the age old question: =E2=80=9Chow = do you know whether a device is sane or has been hacked?=E2=80=9D And there are= ways to address that, imperfect though they may be. Eliot --USaw5T38cxrgNQwOhmgtl7cr7MDBFP5kX-- --OiTdOCeEc2oAWxbFLuota8PI9MhuB8l14 Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJXvC5GAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozxIsIAM3lF7c+pB6jZTy29Wl3b263 L2JyVbMziE2hK70N91TJMm3ef0yvAN7NwQ0hNAm/V24sAubcVNaVy2ruK9xOWhVw 4Pvpti5ygHNoPHX6a2ePXWGmLPqHSF7QdXLOwUGFAk5BascWe6CHFTUFRCFQTI6C dIgBtLXhMjgDIjgeZCgnvkSBWzpPPkLDWcfI5CSkFIxUnEKyp/60ArvJ9rLXOzEt npYuaNSNuQJvt4BPcXyO7xmvU3oyNUB9WcKi4yEpFTKOpKxrrYJfitX4H+jw0WGI gawx5w5QFD2sYffuhEt6jbNvFBM9nOd43iAUCVA33N8GwXW9oK48ajv9S5C5PkA= =8lFq -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --OiTdOCeEc2oAWxbFLuota8PI9MhuB8l14-- From nobody Tue Aug 23 04:26:55 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FD2D126579 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:26:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=coote.org header.b=IYGK2XQ3; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=coote.org header.b=dy1ixRSG Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gwiE1zSWd5Az for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:26:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.coote.org (575185b4.skybroadband.com [87.81.133.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7200312B011 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:26:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mercury.coote.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 9E8BE16C1329; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:26:38 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mercury.coote.org 9E8BE16C1329 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1471951598; bh=oaPGj9NXdQtyYQkT2KQKFx+X/yY2nCx8I6op7vNYYOc=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=IYGK2XQ31Lvcyb8A+rb3VbUnuegPsV1acFPVilvdH4eLZSXS+5nDUeZpbR5g7ylmv f/sUpDIaKUsgAnwXjqQXuQjciOr4VXkQcaP4a+l/kq6Neb4JO1Z7TNxNSdrgFEyoFm /jyNwPTTAtNXP/97AtT7+Hx9+3ueHh5C9nOTmcrg= X-Original-To: iotsi@iab.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mercury.coote.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CAB116C1137; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:26:37 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mercury.coote.org 7CAB116C1137 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1471951597; bh=oaPGj9NXdQtyYQkT2KQKFx+X/yY2nCx8I6op7vNYYOc=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=dy1ixRSGHHgXgZHGy5733CepDUOJ6cUEIxJHKmNZ3hgasMHGvnap05AVC5XVQbhPN ldDYtzmYe4Mt+QICccqrjSLFqPE/xG4l9D2QyeQEcZ0I8RmhmEOnS6/GpB5lTyEc68 XL8nxYvrbMUti+IH9ieEl12hdl2yV5Y8mFDeHnZg= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Tim Coote In-Reply-To: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:26:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> To: Eliot Lear X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-Spambayes-Classification: ham; 0.00 Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , David Janes , Hannes Tschofenig , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:26:42 -0000 Hullo I=E2=80=99ll write up a simple example later today to illustrate the = sorts of issues that I=E2=80=99m trying to describe. > On 23 Aug 2016, at 12:06, Eliot Lear wrote: >=20 > Hi Hannes, >=20 >=20 > On 8/23/16 12:56 PM, Hannes Tschofenig wrote: >> Eliot, Tim, >>=20 >> I believe you are talking about two different types of states. >> Is my understanding correct? Tim, maybe you can elaborate a bit more = about the ' overall system state' you are referring to. >=20 > Tim wrote: >> However, there is a significant issue that the deployed Things do not >> necessarily tell (or know) the truth about what they are or their >> current state. >=20 > It's the "who they are" part below that I'm working on now. That's = what > MUD+802.1AR gives you. In that case, as I wrote, the assertion is = from > the manufacturer of the Thing, and not the Thing itself. As to the > device's operational state, that gets us into other areas that is not > unique to Things, and leads us toward the age old question: =E2=80=9Chow= do you > know whether a device is sane or has been hacked?=E2=80=9D And there = are ways > to address that, imperfect though they may be. >=20 > Eliot >=20 >=20 There=E2=80=99s a commercial asymmetry here, which means that Thing = Makers may not know what they have released (their focus is on shifting = boxes) and any assertion, unless backed up by a legal contract is worth = little. Whoever is dropping in hardware based Things may put in a new = version or a replacement from a different supplier that claims to be the = same as something else. But isn=E2=80=99t.=20 My conclusion was that the owner of the service delivered to the = customer must define automated tests and behaviour categorisations that = are used to accept new components and to identify rogues in production. = Testing Hardware Things should have the same sorts of dependency = injection as is common in s/w test approaches. Any uncertainty of = what=E2=80=99s in the overall configuration needs to be flagged to = relevant users as soon as it is identified. Although =E2=80=98is a device sane=E2=80=99 is an old problem, IoT types = of systems have many more degrees of freedom than traditional areas = where this question has arisen and the markets are being addressed by = firms with varying engineering capabilities. I have seen Things where a = firmware bump was a/ not identifed by the Thing and b/ caused a failure = on Thursday=E2=80=99s with specific configuration combinations. tc= From nobody Tue Aug 23 04:32:47 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 757DF12D0D1; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:32:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.07 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.07 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D6yCr_qjwGuA; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:32:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 81F6612D0B2; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 04:32:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3206; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1471951963; x=1473161563; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=QZee3QxZ7mz0L6dlQ2Ru2D02l2QHw2k9TMPqqGoQ/30=; b=X5EEwKiE/GE0jiIZ5j2nEjVJfUzEvlnZHi3M57vTWljv16DeSGZY9SCy lLTHahAwnxK3UrerhjNpcTo5nQQTHOAr8jgPWQ+WqhZ37zbSwHnHcOAJa y19AH+7c5mWRcHkVgbMWsgvJ63GyXIZMxpwHSZjaLnN3i/klV6xpEq8Ay U=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0CzBABuM7xX/xbLJq1UCoMpAQEBAQFyK?= =?us-ascii?q?lK6AxyGAQKCJhACAQEBAQEBAV4nhGABAQQBI1YQCxgqAgJXBg0IAQGIJQiuaJA?= =?us-ascii?q?GAQEBAQEBAQMBAQEBAQEBEg6IJQiCTYQIEIMpgloBBJlIgz6Bc2+JAYI7hx6Fd?= =?us-ascii?q?4RGi3M1H4N8OjSEW4E2AQEB?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.28,565,1464652800"; d="asc'?scan'208";a="685603720" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 23 Aug 2016 11:32:36 +0000 Received: from [10.61.107.145] (dhcp-10-61-107-145.cisco.com [10.61.107.145]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u7NBWa9s001228; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:32:36 GMT To: Tim Coote References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:32:35 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.2.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="s3pbwiQnBuGM844FEVahFesahtGDG04Hr" Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , David Janes , Hannes Tschofenig , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 11:32:45 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --s3pbwiQnBuGM844FEVahFesahtGDG04Hr Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Cf0ciaLp7orh1HxUEUEkbRGiM277CkmJc" From: Eliot Lear To: Tim Coote Cc: Hannes Tschofenig , David Janes , "iotsi@iab.org" , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> In-Reply-To: <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> --Cf0ciaLp7orh1HxUEUEkbRGiM277CkmJc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Going down... On 8/23/16 1:26 PM, Tim Coote wrote: > > There=E2=80=99s a commercial asymmetry here, which means that Thing Mak= ers may not know what they have released (their focus is on shifting boxe= s) and any assertion, unless backed up by a legal contract is worth littl= e. Whoever is dropping in hardware based Things may put in a new version = or a replacement from a different supplier that claims to be the same as = something else. But isn=E2=80=99t.=20 I think what you are saying is that there are white label products out there. It is true that one might simply not ask the question. I don't find that particularly satisfying, and I know my enterprise friends are even less enthralled. They need a way to identify what is accessing their networks. > > My conclusion was that the owner of the service delivered to the custom= er must define automated tests and behaviour categorisations that are use= d to accept new components and to identify rogues in production. Sure. That amounts to NEA, perhaps with a protocol tweak here or there. But the challenge is getting Things to divulge ANY information in a way that doesn't actually place them on shodan.io. Eliot --Cf0ciaLp7orh1HxUEUEkbRGiM277CkmJc-- --s3pbwiQnBuGM844FEVahFesahtGDG04Hr Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" Content-Description: OpenPGP digital signature Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG/MacGPG2 v2 iQEcBAEBCAAGBQJXvDRUAAoJEIe2a0bZ0nozomkIALdAZ7bsd++6gTlwE/nGXBfR VEA7/x6yOJFq2RbeDVeLLqkujv28AoLkO61MqsXAFCPTafuxiCit79rF3EquFZOS ouZnepSCyLF0iHX/LnEdf6VoWNONcEhDBK6ZmumSvD4YnSlaiPVdEoKXfH5114hw To8OyEvKjEmiVefE2T9bWj1ilpUDKdtT3sU38oxkqYCdqe1lg9aDPJVOkT0jrjJa ZmLalc6lkdaj05dh3Z42/xxc3xRtU+WwUysnCR2WQp1p8/lRnomMqPPTxkb3GLGK pmMJv4ui8LeHPdHRHymmY9a5iH5w/RwZWdOwo3mRfiXOt9qms1LhHKItSmYRM0g= =N2u8 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --s3pbwiQnBuGM844FEVahFesahtGDG04Hr-- From nobody Tue Aug 23 05:03:21 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15FF412D941 for ; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 05:03:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIM_INVALID=0.01] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:03:12 +0100 Received: from HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.175.34.148) by HE1PR0802MB2476.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com (10.175.34.149) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_CBC_SHA_P384) id 15.1.587.9; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:03:09 +0000 Received: from HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.175.34.148]) by HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com ([10.175.34.148]) with mapi id 15.01.0587.013; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:03:09 +0000 From: Hannes Tschofenig To: Eliot Lear , Tim Coote Thread-Topic: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org Thread-Index: AQHR/Kqr3hMKG6+WdEitaKovx/7MeaBVa8KAgADT7QCAAB/vAIAAA/JJgAAFhoCAAAGrgIAACE5Q Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:03:09 +0000 Message-ID: References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [195.149.223.166] x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 90c5a11d-cfe9-4950-29f1-08d3cb4d7356 x-microsoft-exchange-diagnostics: 1; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR0802MB2476; H:HE1PR0802MB2475.eurprd08.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: arm.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 23 Aug 2016 12:03:09.4366 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: f34e5979-57d9-4aaa-ad4d-b122a662184d X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0802MB2476 X-MC-Unique: Hjj27kVLOPiWkEzwj1FoXQ-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , David Janes , Internet Architecture Board , Ted Hardie Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:03:21 -0000 RWxpb3QsDQoNCkkgd291bGQgbGlrZSB0byBoZWFyIHlvdXIgdmlldyBvbiB3aHkgTkVBIGhhcyBi ZWVuIGEgZmFpbHVyZS4NCg0KQ2lhbw0KSGFubmVzDQoNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdl LS0tLS0NCkZyb206IEVsaW90IExlYXIgW21haWx0bzpsZWFyQGNpc2NvLmNvbV0NClNlbnQ6IDIz IEF1Z3VzdCAyMDE2IDEzOjMzDQpUbzogVGltIENvb3RlDQpDYzogSGFubmVzIFRzY2hvZmVuaWc7 IERhdmlkIEphbmVzOyBpb3RzaUBpYWIub3JnOyBUZWQgSGFyZGllOyBJbnRlcm5ldCBBcmNoaXRl Y3R1cmUgQm9hcmQNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlOiBbSW90c2ldIE5ldyBJb1QgZWZmb3J0IGF0IHNjaGVt YS5vcmcNCg0KR29pbmcgZG93bi4uLg0KDQoNCk9uIDgvMjMvMTYgMToyNiBQTSwgVGltIENvb3Rl IHdyb3RlOg0KPg0KPiBUaGVyZeKAmXMgYSBjb21tZXJjaWFsIGFzeW1tZXRyeSBoZXJlLCB3aGlj aCBtZWFucyB0aGF0IFRoaW5nIE1ha2VycyBtYXkgbm90IGtub3cgd2hhdCB0aGV5IGhhdmUgcmVs ZWFzZWQgKHRoZWlyIGZvY3VzIGlzIG9uIHNoaWZ0aW5nIGJveGVzKSBhbmQgYW55IGFzc2VydGlv biwgdW5sZXNzIGJhY2tlZCB1cCBieSBhIGxlZ2FsIGNvbnRyYWN0IGlzIHdvcnRoIGxpdHRsZS4g V2hvZXZlciBpcyBkcm9wcGluZyBpbiBoYXJkd2FyZSBiYXNlZCBUaGluZ3MgbWF5IHB1dCBpbiBh IG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9yIGEgcmVwbGFjZW1lbnQgZnJvbSBhIGRpZmZlcmVudCBzdXBwbGllciB0 aGF0IGNsYWltcyB0byBiZSB0aGUgc2FtZSBhcyBzb21ldGhpbmcgZWxzZS4gQnV0IGlzbuKAmXQu DQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgd2hhdCB5b3UgYXJlIHNheWluZyBpcyB0aGF0IHRoZXJlIGFyZSB3aGl0ZSBs YWJlbCBwcm9kdWN0cyBvdXQgdGhlcmUuICBJdCBpcyB0cnVlIHRoYXQgb25lIG1pZ2h0IHNpbXBs eSBub3QgYXNrIHRoZSBxdWVzdGlvbi4gIEkgZG9uJ3QgZmluZCB0aGF0IHBhcnRpY3VsYXJseSBz YXRpc2Z5aW5nLCBhbmQgSSBrbm93IG15IGVudGVycHJpc2UgZnJpZW5kcyBhcmUgZXZlbiBsZXNz IGVudGhyYWxsZWQuICBUaGV5IG5lZWQgYSB3YXkgdG8gaWRlbnRpZnkgd2hhdCBpcyBhY2Nlc3Np bmcgdGhlaXIgbmV0d29ya3MuDQoNCg0KPg0KPiBNeSBjb25jbHVzaW9uIHdhcyB0aGF0IHRoZSBv d25lciBvZiB0aGUgc2VydmljZSBkZWxpdmVyZWQgdG8gdGhlIGN1c3RvbWVyIG11c3QgZGVmaW5l IGF1dG9tYXRlZCB0ZXN0cyBhbmQgYmVoYXZpb3VyIGNhdGVnb3Jpc2F0aW9ucyB0aGF0IGFyZSB1 c2VkIHRvIGFjY2VwdCBuZXcgY29tcG9uZW50cyBhbmQgdG8gaWRlbnRpZnkgcm9ndWVzIGluIHBy b2R1Y3Rpb24uDQoNClN1cmUuICBUaGF0IGFtb3VudHMgdG8gTkVBLCBwZXJoYXBzIHdpdGggYSBw cm90b2NvbCB0d2VhayBoZXJlIG9yIHRoZXJlLiAgQnV0IHRoZSBjaGFsbGVuZ2UgaXMgZ2V0dGlu ZyBUaGluZ3MgdG8gZGl2dWxnZSBBTlkgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gaW4gYSB3YXkgdGhhdCBkb2Vzbid0 IGFjdHVhbGx5IHBsYWNlIHRoZW0gb24gc2hvZGFuLmlvLg0KDQpFbGlvdA0KDQpJTVBPUlRBTlQg Tk9USUNFOiBUaGUgY29udGVudHMgb2YgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBhbmQgYW55IGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIGFy ZSBjb25maWRlbnRpYWwgYW5kIG1heSBhbHNvIGJlIHByaXZpbGVnZWQuIElmIHlvdSBhcmUgbm90 IHRoZSBpbnRlbmRlZCByZWNpcGllbnQsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBpbW1lZGlh dGVseSBhbmQgZG8gbm90IGRpc2Nsb3NlIHRoZSBjb250ZW50cyB0byBhbnkgb3RoZXIgcGVyc29u LCB1c2UgaXQgZm9yIGFueSBwdXJwb3NlLCBvciBzdG9yZSBvciBjb3B5IHRoZSBpbmZvcm1hdGlv biBpbiBhbnkgbWVkaXVtLiBUaGFuayB5b3UuDQo= From nobody Tue Aug 23 05:52:20 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9CC8712B03D for ; 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a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1471956706; bh=40dvMuuLgeDrtrx9wAxs3lFVIcvU478qSK7Vb+T+fGM=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=TI7PKgHYEi7XTmkzvrsAApAkXAIlD7boO/veRSf2TV9vfflHOQ5BoJ+8xkqAOTEjN 0jNKkZJQP2bOhSZnEgykdqL0EuYj+GS0Qhl500Drupq5dzQuPvaZQWAkuBgncKiaGn NYdBz9FKIhCu9FllsSnJn3LPwkEbNjE1+gx7yjeE= X-Original-To: iotsi@iab.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mercury.coote.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E60216C0F3F; Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:51:45 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mercury.coote.org 1E60216C0F3F DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1471956705; bh=40dvMuuLgeDrtrx9wAxs3lFVIcvU478qSK7Vb+T+fGM=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=dljQNwyXJfXpjARi/TGM62O3Nev4NuNKLGERM5BSJtQdtN8/sGrR3F7pvdXCs+sTy Azv6FBry4YnRETD/96oksu0Erg0mU4bZ+35zjWpNuOffyzxUj64/O3KLQg8mdp1fAZ XPn+MnWfGdQQH/teo4HN+ITPxLpzzp27hEUF0AQI= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Tim Coote In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 13:51:44 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> To: Eliot Lear X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-Spambayes-Classification: ham; 0.00 Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , David Janes , Hannes Tschofenig , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2016 12:52:19 -0000 >=20 > I think what you are saying is that there are white label products out > there. It is true that one might simply not ask the question. I = don't > find that particularly satisfying, and I know my enterprise friends = are > even less enthralled. They need a way to identify what is accessing > their networks. Not just white label products. Most consumer oriented IoT like systems = only focus on the happy-path. As there=E2=80=99s no integration and the = owners are early adopters, that=E2=80=99s fine. Industrial Thing Makers = tend to be domain experts in the industry, and have very immature s/w = engineering awareness. The question needs to be asked. There may be an = answer. For some usecases, it will be possible to trust the answer. >=20 >=20 > Sure. That amounts to NEA, perhaps with a protocol tweak here or > there. But the challenge is getting Things to divulge ANY information > in a way that doesn't actually place them on shodan.io. >=20 Never seen shodan before. Seems to confuse Address, Name and Identity. = NEA sounds like a good idea to me. But I=E2=80=99ve not read it (yet). = Thanks for introducing that, too.= From nobody Tue Aug 30 05:23:43 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 434FC12D134 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2016 05:23:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=coote.org header.b=f7HLHnzr; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=coote.org header.b=qkUtgcck Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Bn3hU_uJulsq for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2016 05:23:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mercury.coote.org (575185b4.skybroadband.com [87.81.133.180]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 289FC127077 for ; Tue, 30 Aug 2016 05:23:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mercury.coote.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 74E4F16C1267; Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:23:30 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mercury.coote.org 74E4F16C1267 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1472559810; bh=MWBuwrAMCvdIU/OZZr3hVSII/wTId1dbqnoukKAlUE4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=f7HLHnzrqydK5Sn+UFJlRh5M7N5V+/BKBE25CmcnKKyj4cgymY0yDZE46flgXBuEc NUArk0HDB8gF5SxqwpKmx0bj7DXQRR0D12Ps3n546XBYc7Q30Uef81KJQR3H3MCd+e Z3XG6xWkfUkYwN5JKaOnNQzlQRFX/p3DODAaQqmo= X-Original-To: iotsi@iab.org Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by mercury.coote.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46E0D16C10FE; Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:23:29 +0100 (BST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.10.3 mercury.coote.org 46E0D16C10FE DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=coote.org; s=default; t=1472559809; bh=MWBuwrAMCvdIU/OZZr3hVSII/wTId1dbqnoukKAlUE4=; h=Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To:From; b=qkUtgcckZ4HzGETVc+plCgDM/l4IBUlVTSC6RKEqtT//eGdOYk7gvD2aMzlpVeQft 3/eAOZtQvH47PjHqussWaXwEC4FQB8iYNeMTo5IA0vEul5KAdwW+7ukeitSyOnYKPe XDzF13lyFEUMP6EPRaRu8FNJ8mr5HLnXMYYAZ53c= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 8.2 \(2104\)) From: Tim Coote In-Reply-To: <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 13:23:28 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7B4581BE-EAB1-4106-8A62-7E2D42426912@coote.org> References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> To: Eliot Lear X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.2104) X-Spambayes-Classification: ham; 0.00 Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , David Janes , Hannes Tschofenig , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2016 12:23:42 -0000 > On 23 Aug 2016, at 12:26, Tim Coote wrote: >=20 > Hullo >=20 > I=E2=80=99ll write up a simple example later today to illustrate the = sorts of issues that I=E2=80=99m trying to describe. Sorry, "Planning Fallacy". My intention here is to highlight that key aspects of devices do not = relate to the obvious AD and DA conversions to and from the real world. = Encoding the simple measurements and controls that a sensor/actuator = handles may, IMO, give the impression of a more complete solution than = such encoding can handle. The easy answer may just be to note the gap. Let=E2=80=99s take something to control the environment of the home to = keep it comfortable without wasting energy. For simplicity, I=E2=80=99ll = just describe one dimension: keeping it warm enough, and ignoring = location prediction, etc. Such a system has sensors (thermometers = t[1-n]), which may be located in fixed places or be moved around. = Let=E2=80=99s call this system Homes. Some of the h/w thermometers may be composed into what I=E2=80=99d call = Synthetic Things (st[1-m]) which measure the temperatures of the living = spaces using some integration of the individual hardware components. = (e.g. harmonic mean of the reported temperatures within each room). There will also be at least one actuator to turn on the heating = (a[1-n]). If the designer=E2=80=99s smart, the UI to the state of the system will = be maintained in one place and made rendered on a phone or similar. Part = of the UI is also the living environment (are the radiators on? Does it = feel comfortable, etc). More typically, the UI also extends into wall = based thermostats with embedded systems. Such a model often confuses = end-users as it tends to give inconsistent information depending on the = channel. The attractiveness of this anti-pattern is that the devices can = be easily sourced and will work stand-alone. The digital interface to all actuators and sensors is a low power, high = latency, meshed network with 6LoWPAN mapping (PHY1). [this assumes that = the application level aspects of most such networks are ignored in = favour of enabling device interoperability] A typical system like this would have one application for controlling = the temperature, configured and used by, say, a million homes, with 1.5M = users. Configuration would include providing the metadata on device = disposition and a model of the home. The typical commercial model has = no direct relationship between makers of t[1-n] and the application that = controls the home. The types of issue that I=E2=80=99m concerned about include: - standardised approaches to associating t1 - tn with the network, so = that the system and the user have the same view as to which is which - when t2 gets a firmware update, the change to this Configuration Item = [in the ITIL sense] is not reported by t2. However, the behaviour of t2 = does change. - when the user introduces tn+1 using an off-the-shelf product from the = hardware store, it declares that it=E2=80=99s the same as some = recognised thermometer. But it isn=E2=80=99t and behaves oddly. - introducing tn+1 changes the behaviour of PHY1. - st1 has to understand how current the values reported to it are and to = spot gaps so that it can raise alarms if one of the t=E2=80=99s that it = is taking input from has disappeared. Such reports and timeliness need = to be consistent across all components that are listening to each t (or = st). - changes in the house change the timings of PHY1, so the expected = behaviours of PHY1 need to be codified. - the vast variation of numbers and timing variations of devices need to = be handled consistently and tested for by the application, and the = application must have some awareness of to what extent each in-home = configuration has been tested. - calibration variation between physical thermometers, including how = they are positioned for measuring a temperature. hth Tim From nobody Wed Aug 31 23:32:49 2016 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iotsi@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28E6612B061; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 23:32:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -15.069 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-15.069 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.548, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zHNN76kbcvgK; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 23:32:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher DHE-RSA-SEED-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D77F912B037; Wed, 31 Aug 2016 23:32:45 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=10987; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1472711566; x=1473921166; h=subject:to:references:cc:from:message-id:date: mime-version:in-reply-to; bh=+2KoG70l1uxqBkKJ6YTS3ucCD62/BmXC9cOkB6Ld9Ck=; b=Lh/Hdk08Xx54WXpRffG51l/lrGwwkjpHQKElfRWnLg4RUa+GVFEkj5RX VYPEia4C0GT8NWhQZaQralYABxVK726kKQ2xjAy8pb9JAK9FpQvdQfgIl 1OXKZG6C9XgSq9hderxyhT2ZQTmbV36S00cI69IyoSEikfRCr45X9LYuH U=; X-Files: signature.asc : 481 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: =?us-ascii?q?A0ClDwADy8dX/xbLJq1TCoNQAQEBAQF1K?= =?us-ascii?q?lKzG4UNggEchgACggITAQIBAQEBAQEBXieEYQEBBAEjVhALGCoCAlcGDQgBAYg?= =?us-ascii?q?8CK4cjGwBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEODognglWEGIMqgloBBJlQgz6Bc?= =?us-ascii?q?2+JEYI7hyCFfIRLi3YgAjKEMzo0hmwBAQE?= X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.30,265,1470700800"; d="asc'?scan'208,217";a="644802083" Received: from aer-iport-nat.cisco.com (HELO aer-core-4.cisco.com) ([173.38.203.22]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP/TLS/DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384; 01 Sep 2016 06:32:43 +0000 Received: from [10.61.209.230] ([10.61.209.230]) by aer-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id u816WhSm021529; Thu, 1 Sep 2016 06:32:43 GMT To: Tim Coote References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> From: Eliot Lear Message-ID: <27ef5545-8b4f-a79f-9efc-2378cec1e61b@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2016 08:32:45 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.11; rv:45.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/45.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha256; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="lqekLnpmAeTBH7IaG9uXWNl9hX3UmBhL5" Archived-At: Cc: "iotsi@iab.org" , David Janes , Hannes Tschofenig , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org X-BeenThere: iotsi@iab.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.17 Precedence: list List-Id: Internet of Things Semantic Interoperability Workshop List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Sep 2016 06:32:48 -0000 This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156) --lqekLnpmAeTBH7IaG9uXWNl9hX3UmBhL5 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="MTdQLMPtWru1bS1srXUnaWTbrcvgT209U"; protected-headers="v1" From: Eliot Lear To: Tim Coote Cc: Hannes Tschofenig , David Janes , "iotsi@iab.org" , Ted Hardie , Internet Architecture Board Message-ID: <27ef5545-8b4f-a79f-9efc-2378cec1e61b@cisco.com> Subject: Re: [Iotsi] New IoT effort at schema.org References: <56171746-364d-ec04-44b9-78068f50e6c1@cisco.com> <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> In-Reply-To: <49919A41-7CDA-4515-8509-8A93DD11F97B@coote.org> --MTdQLMPtWru1bS1srXUnaWTbrcvgT209U Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------BDF5CA06BE06C381A516F263" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------BDF5CA06BE06C381A516F263 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tim, I'm responding to both this and your other message. On 8/23/16 1:26 PM, Tim Coote wrote: > There=E2=80=99s a commercial asymmetry here, which means that Thing Mak= ers may not know what they have released (their focus is on shifting boxe= s) and any assertion, unless backed up by a legal contract is worth littl= e. Whoever is dropping in hardware based Things may put in a new version = or a replacement from a different supplier that claims to be the same as = something else. But isn=E2=80=99t.=20 You are raising two issues: * One is the old =E2=80=9CI'm a Vendor X inkjet cartridge=E2=80=9D prob= lem. As we have seen in the market, Vendor X has an incentive to prevent counterfeiting. IEEE 802.1AR provides the standards basis to address that very problem. * The second issue is the old =E2=80=9CI am a VT100=E2=80=9D trick, whi= ch is also the less old =E2=80=9CI am browser X=E2=80=9D trick, done not so much to = counterfeit, but to indicate compatibility and interoperability. These two are related. In a business sense, a vendor has an incentive to see that only published interfaces are used, so that they can make changes to private interfaces. From a vendor perspective typically they will publish interfaces for the components they don't want to build, themselves. That includes integration with other control systems. In the example you gave in the other message of a heating control system, that might be the temperature sensor if the margins are sufficiently low, but playing against that are service assurance concerns. Systems integrators can step into that market if it is what the vendor wishes/needs. At that point it will be the SIs who do the testing.=20 That's their value add. For less critical systems there are certification systems such as the WiFi Alliance (as an example) and CableLabs. We will see IoT versions of those, I'm sure, for the consumer space, but they may be granular. The one that has bedeviled consumers has been the entertainment system remote control. Various HDMI standards provide for *some* integration, but who among us has but one remote control? > > My conclusion was that the owner of the service delivered to the custom= er must define automated tests and behaviour categorisations that are use= d to accept new components and to identify rogues in production. Testing = Hardware Things should have the same sorts of dependency injection as is = common in s/w test approaches. Any uncertainty of what=E2=80=99s in the o= verall configuration needs to be flagged to relevant users as soon as it = is identified. If the SIs from above want to do that testing, then a mechanism like NEA may be helpful, and it may even be desirable from a vendor perspective if they want to open interfaces and address service assurance. But I think it has to be combined with 802.1AR or something similar. That provides for some accountability as well as some limits: if it's counterfeit the vendor can wash his hands of the matter or better yet make a sale. > > Although =E2=80=98is a device sane=E2=80=99 is an old problem, IoT type= s of systems have many more degrees of freedom than traditional areas whe= re this question has arisen and the markets are being addressed by firms = with varying engineering capabilities. I have seen Things where a firmwar= e bump was a/ not identifed by the Thing and b/ caused a failure on Thurs= day=E2=80=99s with specific configuration combinations. > Yes, and I would say that the market is highly immature. A good thing.=20 It means there's lots of room for growth and development of approaches. Eliot --------------BDF5CA06BE06C381A516F263 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tim,

I'm responding to both this and your other message.


On 8/23/16 1:26 PM, Tim Coote wrote: 

      
There=E2=80=99s a commercial asymmetry here, which m=
eans that Thing Makers may not know what they have released (their focus =
is on shifting boxes) and any assertion, unless backed up by a legal cont=
ract is worth little. Whoever is dropping in hardware based Things may pu=
t in a new version or a replacement from a different supplier that claims=
 to be the same as something else. But isn=E2=80=99t. 

    

    

    You are raising two issues:

    
    
      
  • One is the old =E2=80=9CI'm a Vendor X inkjet cartridge=E2=80=9D=
 problem.=C2=A0 As
        we have seen in the market, Vendor X has an incentive to prevent
        counterfeiting.=C2=A0 IEEE 802.1AR provides the standards basis t=
o
        address that very problem.
    • 
      
  • The second issue is the old =E2=80=9CI am a VT100=E2=80=9D tric=
k, which is
        also the less old =E2=80=9CI am browser X=E2=80=9D trick, done no=
t so much to
        counterfeit, but to indicate compatibility and interoperability.<=
/li>
    

    
These two are related.=C2=A0 In a business sense, a vendor has an
      incentive to see that only published interfaces are used, so that
      they can make changes to private interfaces.=C2=A0 From a vendor
      perspective typically they will publish interfaces for the
      components they don't want to build, themselves.=C2=A0 That include=
s
      integration with other control systems.=C2=A0 In the example you ga=
ve
      in the other message of a heating control system, that might be
      the temperature sensor if the margins are sufficiently low, but
      playing against that are service assurance concerns.=C2=A0 Systems
      integrators can step into that market if it is what the vendor
      wishes/needs.=C2=A0 At that point it will be the SIs who do the
      testing.=C2=A0 That's their value add.=C2=A0 For less critical syst=
ems there
      are certification systems such as the WiFi Alliance (as an
      example) and CableLabs.=C2=A0 We will see IoT versions of those, I'=
m
      sure, for the consumer space, but they may be granular.=C2=A0 The o=
ne
      that has bedeviled consumers has been the entertainment system
      remote control.=C2=A0 Various HDMI standards provide for some
      integration, but who among us has but one remote control?

    

    


    

    

      

My conclusion was that the owner of the service delivered to the customer=
 must define automated tests and behaviour categorisations that are used =
to accept new components and to identify rogues in production. Testing Ha=
rdware Things should have the same sorts of dependency injection as is co=
mmon in s/w test approaches. Any uncertainty of what=E2=80=99s in the ove=
rall configuration needs to be flagged to relevant users as soon as it is=
 identified.

    

    

    If the SIs from above want to do that testing, then a mechanism like
    NEA may be helpful, and it may even be desirable from a vendor
    perspective if they want to open interfaces and address service
    assurance.=C2=A0 But I think it has to be combined with 802.1AR or
    something similar.=C2=A0 That provides for some accountability as wel=
l as
    some limits: if it's counterfeit the vendor can wash his hands of
    the matter or better yet make a sale.

    

    

      

Although =E2=80=98is a device sane=E2=80=99 is an old problem, IoT types =
of systems have many more degrees of freedom than traditional areas where=
 this question has arisen and the markets are being addressed by firms wi=
th varying engineering capabilities. I have seen Things where a firmware =
bump was a/ not identifed by the Thing and b/ caused a failure on Thursda=
y=E2=80=99s with specific configuration combinations.



    

    

    Yes, and I would say that the market is highly immature.=C2=A0 A good=

    thing.=C2=A0 It means there's lots of room for growth and development=
 of
    approaches.

    

    Eliot

    

  


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