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From: "Wijnen, Bert (Bert)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
To: wsawyer@ieee.org, ipcdn@ietf.org
Cc: "Thomas Narten (E-mail)" <narten@us.ibm.com>,
        "Erik Nordmark (E-mail)"
	 <Erik.Nordmark@sun.com>,
        "Bert Wijnen (E-mail)" <bwijnen@lucent.com>
Date: Tue, 1 Oct 2002 17:27:58 +0200 
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Subject: [ipcdn] MIB Doctor review of: draft-ietf-ipcdn-subscriber-mib-06.txt
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Took a bit longer than I had hoped. Oh well, here we go

More or less serious issues/concerns:
- 2nd para in Section 2 starts off with:
    "Much of this MIB duplicates capabilities found in 
     the DOCSIS Cable Device MIB [17]."
  So I immediately wonder why we need to duplicate any of
  that other stuff, even without looking at the details.
  Pls explain/justify. 
  The other praragraphs in this section try to explain some 
  of it I think. But what is not clear is: will this MIB
  then obsolete the one in reference [17].
  If it only partially obsoletes/replaces it, then maybe
  that should be made clear and the [17] may need a 
  revision to deprecate the objects being replaced.
- In sect 2.1 you write:
     "The docsSubMgtCpeControlTable, docsSubMgtCpeIpTable,
      and docsSubMgtCmFilterTable augment the 
      docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable from [18]."
  I do see this is true for docsSubMgtCpeControlTable but
  for docsSubMgtCmFilterTable you are not using the AUGMENTS
  clause. So maybe it is only a sparse augmentation? If so,
  the better say so. If it is a real AUGMENT then use the
  AUGMENTS clause.
- Mmm... sect 2.2 starts to talk about the use of TFTTTP... 
  what does that have to do with the MIB? Maybe explain that
  a bit (better). FOr example, why such is needed. And maybe
  you can add a reference where people can find info about it.
  The good news is that you do mention possible security aspects 
  (with references) in the Security Considerations section. Hope
  it is acceptable to Security ADs.
- Sect 2.3
  I really wonder if this is smart. Why not give a much larger range
  to the index objects and then specify via the MODULE COMPLIANCE 
  that they only need to support up to 1024. That way you do not
  have to change the MIB in the future if you ever need more
  than 1024. You then add another compliance statement (which
  can actually be done in a different module/document)
- The MIB MODULE-IDENTITY also talks about experimental.
  You want to removethat if you go for STDs track
- In the MIB you must use 4-digit year notation, so
  change 
           LAST-UPDATED    "0202280000Z" -- February 28, 2002
  into
           LAST-UPDATED    "200202280000Z" -- February 28, 2002
  and also 
           REVISION "0202280000Z" -- February 28, 2002
  into
           REVISION "200202280000Z" -- February 28, 2002
- Normally, for a new RFC, we only have one REVISION clause. Whatever
  changes were made during the WG process are not recorded in revision
  clauses, so you can remove the 2nd revision clause.
  In fact the one and only revision clause should say something like:

           REVISION "200202280000Z" -- February 28, 2002
           DESCRIPTION "Initial version, published as RFC xxxx."
           -- RFC Editor to assign xxxx
- I am not comfortable with you putting this MIB under { docsDev 5 }
  How does DCOSIS keep track as to hwo makes assignments under
  the docsDev OID subtree?
  Why can this not be another assignment under mib-2 ??
  Certainly it should not have been docsDev 5 while you were making
  all sorts of changes during the WG process or while it was so
  called "experimental" ...
- I see:
    docsSubMgtCpeControlReset OBJECT-TYPE
       SYNTAX  TruthValue
       MAX-ACCESS read-write
       STATUS  current
       DESCRIPTION
           "This object always returns false on read.  If this object is
       set to true, the rows with  'learned' addresses in
       docsSubMgtCpeIpTable for this CM are deleted from that table."
  Mmm.. so if I SET the object to true and do a GET afterwards then it is
  back in false? I need to check if SNMP/MIB people are really happy with
  this.
- I am kind of wondering about the AUGEMENTS for
          AUGMENTS { docsIfCmtsCmStatusEntry }
  Are all the WG members and potential implementers aware that you are
  adding read-write objects to an otherwise read-only table?
  I guess it would be good to spell out in the DESCRIPTION clause
  of this table:
  - that it AUGEMENTS (instead of extends) the docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable
  - that it adds 4 WRITEable objects.
- the following 3 objects that define defaults. Can you explain how
  that works and when they come into play. I see that hey do when the
  registration fails. So is it that when a cable modem registers, then
  this MIB-table (at a device in the provider premises?) gets populated
  with whatever the user registers? And if he does not register you still 
  add entries to this MIB-table and the defaults get picked up in that case?
  I may be confused, because neither in this document
  nor in RFC2669/2670 did I find where this MIB and the others reside.
  Would be good to have a picture of the devices involved, where they
  are located adn what their function is.
- table docsSubMgtPktFilterTable is a read-create table.
  I see no StorageType object and no words at all about the persistency
  of that table. We need to understand the behaviour for persistency.
  This comment applies to all your read-create tables. In fact it also
  applies (I think) to read-write values of other objects and other
  tables as well.
- I see:
       docsSubMgtPktFilterGroup        Integer32,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterIndex        Integer32,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterSrcAddrType  InetAddressType,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterSrcAddr      InetAddress,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterSrcMaskType  InetAddressType,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterSrcMask      InetAddress,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterDstAddrType  InetAddressType,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterDstAddr      InetAddress,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterDstMaskType  InetAddressType,
       docsSubMgtPktFilterDstMask      InetAddress,
  A few remarks/questions
  - that would give me the impression that the addressType for
    address and mask could be different.
  - it also gives me the impression that addressType for source
    and destination can be different.
  - From your COMPLIANCE section that seems not to be the case
    for current implementers of this MIB.
    Not clear if it will never be the case in the future.
  - Anyway, if addressType is the same, then only one such object
    is needed. Maybe an old version of the INET-ADDRESS-MIB did
    suggest that you needed multiple. But the current version
    as per RFC 3291.
  - This new version also suggest to use InetAddressPrefixLength
    instead of a mask. Pls take a look at that.
- if the DEFVAL for    docsSubMgtPktFilterSrcAddrType is ipv4,
  then why is the DEFVAL for    docsSubMgtPktFilterSrcAddr not 0.0.0.0?
- same for Destination address
- object docsSubMgtPktFilterUlp says:
       DESCRIPTION
       "Upper level protocol to match.  If this value is 256,
       matches ALL ULP values.  Otherwise, this matches the specific
       protocol value.  Note that if the packet ULP is either 6 (tcp) or
       17 (udp), then docsSubMgtPktTcpUdpFilterTable must also be
       consulted (if its entry exists) to see if this entry matches.
       If this value is neither tcp(6) nor udp(17), then that
       table is not consulted." 
  while object    docsSubMgtTcpUdpFilterTable says:
       DESCRIPTION ".... This table
            is not consulted unless the upper-layer protocol is TCP,
            UDP, or 'any'."
  So that seems to conflict with each other. (I would also add (256)
  after 'any' so it is easier to make the connection.
  In the first object you say it is onlu consulted for tcp and udp
  and in the table itself you say that it is also consulted for 'any'
- I see: 
   docsSubMgtPktFilterAction OBJECT-TYPE
       SYNTAX      INTEGER
                      {
                      accept(1),
                      drop(2)
                      }
       MAX-ACCESS  read-create
       STATUS      current
       DESCRIPTION
           "The action to take upon this filter matching.  Accept means
       to accept the packet for further processing.  Drop means to drop
       the packet."
   And I wonder: what does "further processing" mean? Will it be checked
   against the next filter... or will it be forwarded, or what.
   "drop" seems clear in that the packet gets dropped.
- I see:
       docsSubMgtTcpUdpSrcPort     Integer32,
       docsSubMgtTcpUdpDstPort     Integer32,
  These probably should be of type InetPortNumber instead, see RFC3291
- object    docsSubMgtTcpFlagValues
  says: ..................... An attempt to violate this constraint
       returns an inconsistentValue error for an SNMPv2 or v3 agent
       and a badValue error for an SNMPv1 agent.
  We prefer that you just talk about the inconsistentValue error and
  not mention SNMPvx at all. RFC2576 has common procedures to translate
  such errors between different versions of SNMP.
- For rowStatus objects, you MUST also indicate which objects must have
  proper values before the row can be made active. See RowStatus TC
  in RFC2579. SO this comment applies to all your rowStatus objects.
- you have no Notifications, so there seems to be no need to define
    docsSubMgtNotification OBJECT IDENTIFIER  ::= { docsSubMgt 2 }
- Why have you commented out (in the MODULE COMPLIANCE)
          -- SYNTAX InetAddressType { ipv4(1) }
  because if you only requite support for IPv4, then that is
  exactly how you specify it in the MIB. I know that some older
  version of SMICng complians about it... but you can ignore that
  error/warning. See for example RFC3289 that uses it too.
  Now ... are cable modems not supporting IPv6 and will they not
  do so in the (near) future?
  Cuase. what might be a problem though is that in principle the
  IETF requires support for IPv4 and IPv6 these days.
  Thomas or Erik, any comment on that?
- In the security section, you MUST list the objects that are
  sensitive (read or read-write or read-create) and then for
  each of them explain why they are sensitive and need protection.

Administrative/editorial nits:
- In the abstract, it talks about "experimental portion".
  Should be just "portion" if you're heading for PS.
- the RFC-Editor does not want unfamiliar acronyms in the
  title. See http://www.rfc-editor.org/policy.html
  I think MIB is OK, but DOSCIS is probably not OK.
  Same comment for abstract.
- 2nd para in abstract is not needed. That is already part
  of the MIB boiler plate as you have it in sect 1.
- references need to be split in normative and informative.
  Again see: http://www.rfc-editor.org/policy.html
  For the references in the MIB boiler-plate, a good sample
  of the split is in draft-ietf-rmonmib-hc-alarm-mib-02.txt
- object  docsSubMgtCpeIpAddr has a decription clause that
  talks about "wiretapping". Not sure you want to use that term.

Thanks,
Bert 
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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Fri Oct  4 12:26:58 2002
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From: "Samant, Shrinivas (Shrinivas)" <ssamant@lucent.com>
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 r-mib-06
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Hi,
docsSubMgtPktFilterEntry is a read-create object. Hence, it can be read, created, modified, deleted at any time.
docsSubMgtCmFilterTable binds the cable modem to an ordered list of filters defined in docsSubMgtPktFilterEntry.

My question is...

Can an entry from docsSubMgtPktFilterEntry be deleted, if it is being used by a cable modem? If yes, then what filter criteria should be applied to these packets?

Thanks,

-Shrini
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From: "Woundy, Richard" <RWoundy@broadband.att.com>
To: "IPCDN (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
cc: "Jean-Francois Mule (E-mail)" <jf.mule@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: [ipcdn] IPCDN WG at Atlanta
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Folks,

Jean-Francois and I plan to hold a two hour working group session for the
IPCDN WG in Atlanta. The precise block of time has not been confirmed yet.

Please forward any agenda requests to the working group co-chairs (copied
above) as soon as possible.

Note the deadlines for Internet draft submissions and pre-registration are
rapidly approaching.

October 28, Monday - Internet Draft cut-off for initial document (-00)
submission at 09:00 ET
October 29, Tuesday - Working Group and BOF scheduling closes at 17:00 ET
November 4, Monday - Internet Draft final submission cut-off at 09:00 ET
November 8, Friday - Registration and Pre-payment cut-off at 12:00 noon ET
November 13, Wednesday - Registration cancellation cut-off at 17:00 ET
November 14, Thursday - Working Group agendas by 12:00 ET
November 17-21 - 55th IETF Meeting in Atlanta, GA

See <http://www.ietf.org/meetings/IETF-55.html> for more details.

-- Rich

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Subject: [ipcdn] help help help ( DOCSIS Subscriber Management MIB   )
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Dear All,
I want to restrict IP address behind a cable modem , means say I 
give 192.168.1.2 to the pc ( A static IP address ) . Now behind a 
given cable modem only this IP should be able to access the 
network , i.e if i change the ip to 192.168.1.3 it should not work 
. I am using Cisco Docsis CPE configurator V3.6 for creating the 
configuration files . I am using motorola surfboard cable modems 
.
In the docsis configurator there is a option for configuring the 
subscriber management IP table , and allowing only permitted IP 
address to access the network , but it is not happening .
Also if you can help me out if it possible through the DOCSIS 
Subscriber Management MIB  . I would be highly obliged
thanks
raj
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To: Raj P Panchal <ispnetwork@rediffmail.com>
Cc: wsawyer@ieee.org, ipcdn@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [ipcdn] help help help ( DOCSIS Subscriber Management MIB   )
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Raj -

In general, this group can answer questions about its work items - e.g. about
the IPCDN set of MIBs.   It generally won't respond to questions about the use
of specific company's products (e.g. the cisco product) and will suggest you
go ask them.

That said, look at the Cable Device MIB filtering section and if you have
specific questions of the form "what objects need to be created to do X type
of filtering?" I'll bet you'll probably have a better chance of getting an
error.

In any event, it sounds like you need to chat with either or both of Cisco or
Motorola FIRST before coming here.  

Mike


On 14 Oct 2002 08:13:13 -0000 Raj P Panchal <ispnetwork@rediffmail.com> wrote:

> Dear All,
> I want to restrict IP address behind a cable
> modem , means say I 
> give 192.168.1.2 to the pc ( A static IP
> address ) . Now behind a 
> given cable modem only this IP should be able
> to access the 
> network , i.e if i change the ip to 192.168.1.3
> it should not work 
> . I am using Cisco Docsis CPE configurator V3.6
> for creating the 
> configuration files . I am using motorola
> surfboard cable modems 
> .
> In the docsis configurator there is a option
> for configuring the 
> subscriber management IP table , and allowing
> only permitted IP 
> address to access the network , but it is not
> happening .
> Also if you can help me out if it possible
> through the DOCSIS 
> Subscriber Management MIB  . I would be highly
> obliged
> thanks
> raj
> _______________________________________________
> IPCDN mailing list
> IPCDN@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn
> 

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From: Jean-Francois Mule <jf.mule@cablelabs.com>
To: "'ipcdn@ietf.org'" <ipcdn@ietf.org>,
        "Richard Woundy (E-mail)"
	 <RWoundy@broadband.att.com>
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Subject: [ipcdn] 2669bis - additional objects for http download
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All,

For some CableLabs devices like PacketCable Standalone MTAs, we would like to re-use 2669.  Most objects of the cable device MIB meet what we need.
The additions are all related to http software download as an option.  See below the proposed changes against draft-ietf-ipcdn-device-mibv2-02. Feel free to rework some of what is proposed in there to align it with the rest of the draft (inserted object position, object names/description clause, etc.).

Comments welcome.
Jean-Francois.
-
-- 1.
-- current text
   docsDevSwServerAddressType OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      InetAddressType
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      current
           DESCRIPTION
               "The type of address of the TFTP server used for software
                upgrades."
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 6 }

-- new text:

   docsDevSwServerAddressType OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      InetAddressType
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      current
           DESCRIPTION
               "The type of address of the TFTP or HTTP server used for 
                software upgrades."
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 6 }

-- 2.
-- current text

   docsDevSwServerAddress OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      InetAddress
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      current
           DESCRIPTION
               "The address of the TFTP server used for software upgrades.

               If the TFTP server is unknown, return the zero length address
               string (See the TextualConvention).  If docsDevSwServer is
               also implemented in this agent, this object is tied to it.  A
               set of this object to an IPv4 address will result in the value
               of docsDevSwServer also being set to that address.  If this
               object is set to an IPv6 address, docsDevSwServer is set to
               0.0.0.0.  If docsDevSwServer is set, this object is also set
               to that value.  Note that if both are set in the same action,
               the order of which one sets the other is undefined - so both
               should be the same value."
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 7 }

-- new text
   docsDevSwServerAddress OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      InetAddress
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      current
           DESCRIPTION
               "The address of the TFTP or HTTP server used for software 
               upgrades.

               If the TFTP/HTTP server is unknown, return the zero length 
               address string (See the TextualConvention).  
               If docsDevSwServer is also implemented in this agent, this 
               object is tied to it.  A set of this object to an IPv4 
               address will result in the value of docsDevSwServer also 
               being set to that address.  If this object is set to an IPv6
               address, docsDevSwServer is set to 0.0.0.0.  
               If docsDevSwServer is set, this object is also set to that 
               value.  Note that if both are set in the same action, the 
               order of which one sets the other is undefined - so both
               should be the same value."
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 7 }

-- 3.
-- new text
   feel free to modify this below.  Idea is to have a rw object to set the protocol used for sw download.

   SwServerTransportProtocol ::= TEXTUAL-CONVENTION  
           STATUS current  
           DESCRIPTION  
                "This convention is a bit map.  Each bit represents a   
                 transport protocol.  If a bit has value 1, then that   
                 selected transport protocol is in some way dependent
                 on the context of the object using this convention.     
                 If a bit has value 0, then that transport protocol  
                 is not selected.  Combinations of bits can be   
                 set when multiple transport protocols are selected.  
  
                 bit 0   : a protocol other than those defined here.  
                 bit 1   : TFTP.   
                 bit 2   : HTTP."  
           SYNTAX     BITS {   
                            other(0),  -- none of the following  
                            tftp(1),  
                            http(2) 
           }   

   docsDevSwServerTransportProtocol OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      SwServerTransportProtocol
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      current
           DESCRIPTION
               "This object specifies the transport protocol to be used 
                for software upgrades.

               If a combination of bits is set, the device supports multiple
               transport protocol and the device will attempt software 
               upgrades using the protocol set in the lowest bit first, then
               attempt using the other protocol(s) if the first attempt is
               not successful.  For e.g., if both tftp and http bits are set
               the device will attempt software download via tftp.  If it fails
               to get a successful tftp connection, it will attempt http 
               download."
           DEFVAL { {tftp}}
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 8 }

-- 4.
-- current text

   docsDevSwFilename OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..64))
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      current
           DESCRIPTION
               "The file name of the software image to be loaded into this
                device. Unless set via SNMP, this is the file name
                specified by the provisioning server that corresponds to
                the software version that is desired for this device.
                If unknown, the string '(unknown)' is returned."
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 2 }

-- new text
   deprecate docsDevSwFilename, add docsDevSwFilenameURL instead.

   docsDevSwFilename OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..64))
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      deprecated
           DESCRIPTION
               "The file name of the software image to be loaded into this
                device. Unless set via SNMP, this is the file name
                specified by the provisioning server that corresponds to
                the software version that is desired for this device.
                If unknown, the string '(unknown)' is returned."
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 2 }

   docsDevSwFilenameURL OBJECT-TYPE
           SYNTAX      SnmpAdminString (SIZE (0..64))
           MAX-ACCESS  read-write
           STATUS      current
           DESCRIPTION
           	"The file name of the software image to be loaded into this
             	device in the URL format. The format being:
                 <Protocol>://<server name>[:Port Number][/<path>/]<sw 
                 filename>.
                 Where Protocol MUST be HTTP or TFTP ( Case insensitive)
                  Unless set via SNMP, this is the file name
                  specified by the provisioning server that corresponds to
             	the software version that is desired for this device.
             	If unknown, the string '(unknown)' is returned.
                  If docsDevSwFilename is also implemented in this agent, 
                  this object is tied to it.  A set of this object to an 
                  tftp URL will result in the value of docsDevSwFilename 
                  also being set to that URL.  If this object is set to 
                  an http URL, docsDevSwFilename is set to an empty string.
                  If docsDevSwFilename is set, this object is also set
                  to that value.  Note that if both are set in the same action,
                  the order of which one sets the other is undefined - so both
                  should be the same value."
           ::= { docsDevSoftware 9 }




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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Tue Oct 15 18:38:18 2002
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From: "Woundy, Richard" <RWoundy@broadband.att.com>
To: "'Samant, Shrinivas (Shrinivas)'" <ssamant@lucent.com>
cc: "IPCDN (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] deletion of DoscSubMgtPktFilterEntry -
 draft-ietf-ipc dn-subscribe r-mib-06
Date: Tue, 15 Oct 2002 16:39:05 -0600
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Shrini,

I'm surprised that no one has answered your question.

My understanding is that a row of docsSubMgtPktFilterTable can be modified
or deleted, regardless of whether any modems belong to the relevent filter
group for which the row applies. I think this is implied by the definition
of docsSubMgtPktFilterStatus.

If a row is deleted from the docsSubMgtPktFilterTable, then the remaining
rows for the filter group apply.

Right?

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Samant, Shrinivas (Shrinivas) [mailto:ssamant@lucent.com]
Sent: Friday, October 04, 2002 12:27 PM
To: 'ipcdn@ietf.org'
Subject: [ipcdn] deletion of DoscSubMgtPktFilterEntry -
draft-ietf-ipcdn-subscribe r-mib-06


Hi,
docsSubMgtPktFilterEntry is a read-create object. Hence, it can be read,
created, modified, deleted at any time.
docsSubMgtCmFilterTable binds the cable modem to an ordered list of filters
defined in docsSubMgtPktFilterEntry.

My question is...

Can an entry from docsSubMgtPktFilterEntry be deleted, if it is being used
by a cable modem? If yes, then what filter criteria should be applied to
these packets?

Thanks,

-Shrini
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To: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Hi everyone,
 
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.
 
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Hi
everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Please find
attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and =
compliance
statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since v4 =
regarding
new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate =
massaging.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Comments
are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that time =
an
official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the =
IETF last
call process, leading to RFC =
designation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks very
much,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Dave<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle15><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span><![endif]--><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue'>************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>David =
Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite =
202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>K2K 3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>613.592.1052<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>ext 222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
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style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></span></font></i><font =
size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><span =
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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Mon Oct 21 18:14:04 2002
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From: "Bob Himlin" <rhimlin@correlant.com>
To: "'Raftus, David'" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "'Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)'" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "'Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)'" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
        "'Ipcdn List (E-mail)'" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
Date: Mon, 21 Oct 2002 15:14:16 -0700
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Regarding the 64-bit docsIfSigQ codeword counters, is it the intent of the
authors to deprecate the 32-bit counters, or to have both 32-bit and 64-bit
counters, similar to ifTable & ifXTable octet counters?  If the intent is to
deprecate the 32-bit counters, the 32-bit objects should be listed as
deprecated, not as current.  If not, perhaps a note in the description of
the 32-bit counters should state that the 32-bit counters are intended to
reflect the 32 LSBs of the 64-bit counters.  This would prevent any unwanted
‘special’ behavior of the 32-bit counters on rollover, an example of which
might be to reset all the 32-bit counts to 0 when the highest one rolls (a
behavior I have observed in the past).

Also, the 64-bit counters are not referenced in any compliance statement.
Given they are not required by compliance statements, do you expect them to
be implemented?

Bob

-----Original Message-----
From: ipcdn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:ipcdn-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Raftus,
David
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 12:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25

Hi everyone,

Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.

Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.

Thanks very much,
Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************



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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Regarding the =
64-bit
docsIfSigQ codeword counters, is it the intent of the authors to =
deprecate the
32-bit counters, or to have both 32-bit and 64-bit counters, similar to =
ifTable
&amp; ifXTable octet counters?<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</span>If
the intent is to deprecate the 32-bit counters, the 32-bit objects =
should be listed
as deprecated, not as current.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</span>If
not, perhaps a note in the description of the 32-bit counters should =
state that
the 32-bit counters are intended to reflect the 32 LSBs of the 64-bit =
counters.<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>This would prevent any =
unwanted &#8216;special&#8217;
behavior of the 32-bit counters on rollover, an example of which might =
be to
reset all the 32-bit counts to 0 when the highest one rolls (a behavior =
I have observed
in the past).<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Also, the 64-bit =
counters
are not referenced in any compliance statement.<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>Given they are not required by compliance statements, =
do you
expect them to be implemented?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Bob<o:p></o:p></span=
></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
ipcdn-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:ipcdn-admin@ietf.org]<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of </span></b>Raftus,
David<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, October 18, =
2002
12:55 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Docsis 20 Reflector =
(E-mail);
Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Raftus, David<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [ipcdn] rf mib =
draft v5 -
comment period end Friday Oct 25</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
9.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Hi
everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Please find
attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and =
compliance
statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since v4 =
regarding new
mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate =
massaging.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Comments
are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that time =
an
official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the =
IETF last
call process, leading to RFC =
designation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks very
much,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Dave<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span><![endif]--><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue'>************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
:italic'>David
Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
:italic'>Imedia
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
:italic'>340
Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
:italic'>Ottawa
Canada<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>K2K =
3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
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!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
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<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>ext =
222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;font-style=
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style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></span></font></i><font =
size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
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From: "Woundy, Richard" <RWoundy@broadband.att.com>
To: "'Raftus, David'" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
cc: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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David,
 
Here are four comments based mostly on MIB compiling this version of the
MIB:
 
1. You need to import IANAifType FROM IANAifType-MIB at the top of the MIB.
 
2. You need to change your date strings to be in extended UTC format, aka
Y2K friendly syntax. You should also reduce the number of REVISION clauses
down to two: one for the original RFC, and one for your RFC version. For
example:
 
docsIfMib MODULE-IDENTITY
        LAST-UPDATED    "200210180000Z" -- October 18, 2002
        ORGANIZATION    "IETF IPCDN Working Group"
        CONTACT-INFO
            "        David Raftus
             Postal: Imedia Semiconductor       
                     340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
                     Ottawa Ontario
                     Canada
             Phone:  +1 613 592 1052 ext.222
             E-mail: david.raftus@imedia.com
<mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com>            
 
             IETF IPCDN Working Group
             General Discussion: ipcdn@ietf.org <mailto:ipcdn@ietf.org> 
             Subscribe: http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn
<http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn> 
             Archive: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn
<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn> 
             Co-chairs: Richard Woundy, RWoundy@broadband.att.com
<mailto:RWoundy@broadband.att.com> 
                        Jean-Francois Mule, jf.mule@cablelabs.com
<mailto:jf.mule@cablelabs.com> "
        DESCRIPTION
            "This is the MIB Module for DOCSIS 2.0 compliant Radio
             Frequency (RF) interfaces in Cable Modems (CM) and
             Cable Modem Termination Systems (CMTS)."
        REVISION "200210180000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Modified by David Raftus to ..."
        REVISION "199908190000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Initial Version, published as RFC 2670.
             Modified by Mike StJohns to fix problems identified by
             the first pass of the MIB doctor.  Of special note,
             docsIfRangingResp and docsIfCmtsInsertionInterval were
             obsoleted and replaced by other objects with the same
             functionality, but more appropriate SYNTAX."
        ::= { transmission 127 }
 
3. The object docsIfCmtsChannelUtId needs a range, because it serves as an
index for the docIfCmtsChannelUtilizationTable. Should this object have the
same value range of ifIndex, i.e. (1..2147483647)? Or can it be constrained
to a much smaller value, e.g. a maximum of 1024 or 65536?
 
4. Here are the objects that are missing from the compliance statements:
 
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (698,1) Item "docsIfUpChannelPreEqEnable" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1030,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUnerroreds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1043,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtCorrecteds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1056,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUncorrectables" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1424,1) Item "docsIfCmStatusEqualizationData" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2746,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtilizationInterval"
is not contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2810,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module

-- Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,
 
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.
 
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 

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<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>David,</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>Here=20
are four comments based mostly on MIB compiling this version of the=20
MIB:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>1. You=20
need to&nbsp;import IANAifType FROM IANAifType-MIB at the top of the=20
MIB.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>2. You=20
need to change your date strings&nbsp;to be in extended UTC format, aka =
Y2K=20
friendly syntax. You should also reduce the number of REVISION clauses =
down to=20
two: one for the original RFC, and one for your RFC version. For=20
example:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>docsIfMib =
MODULE-IDENTITY<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
LAST-UPDATED&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "200210180000Z" -- October 18,=20
2002<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
ORGANIZATION&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; "IETF IPCDN Working=20
Group"<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
CONTACT-INFO<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; David=20
Raftus<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
Postal: Imedia Semiconductor&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite=20
202<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Ottawa=20
Ontario<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Canada<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;=20
Phone:&nbsp; +1 613 592 1052=20
ext.222<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;=20
E-mail: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com">david.raftus@imedia.com</A>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
IETF IPCDN Working=20
Group<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
General Discussion: <A=20
href=3D"mailto:ipcdn@ietf.org">ipcdn@ietf.org</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Subscribe: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn">http://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/ipcdn</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Archive: <A=20
href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/i=
etf-mail-archive/ipcdn</A><BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Co-chairs: Richard Woundy, <A=20
href=3D"mailto:RWoundy@broadband.att.com">RWoundy@broadband.att.com</A><=
BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
Jean-Francois Mule, <A=20
href=3D"mailto:jf.mule@cablelabs.com">jf.mule@cablelabs.com</A>"<BR>&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
DESCRIPTION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
"This is the MIB Module for DOCSIS 2.0 compliant=20
Radio<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
Frequency (RF) interfaces in Cable Modems (CM)=20
and<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
Cable Modem Termination Systems=20
(CMTS)."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REVISION=20
"200210180000Z"<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
DESCRIPTION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
"Modified by David Raftus to =
..."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
REVISION "199908190000Z"<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
DESCRIPTION<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
"Initial Version, published as RFC=20
2670.<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
Modified by Mike StJohns to fix problems identified=20
by<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;=20
the first pass of the MIB doctor.&nbsp; Of special=20
note,<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;=20
docsIfRangingResp and docsIfCmtsInsertionInterval=20
were<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
obsoleted and replaced by other objects with the=20
same<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
functionality, but more appropriate=20
SYNTAX."<BR>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::=3D { =
transmission 127=20
}</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>3. The=20
object docsIfCmtsChannelUtId needs a range, because it&nbsp;serves =
as&nbsp;an=20
index for the docIfCmtsChannelUtilizationTable. Should this object have =
the same=20
value range of ifIndex, i.e. (1..2147483647)? Or can it be constrained =
to a much=20
smaller value, e.g. a&nbsp;maximum of 1024 or =
65536?</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>4.=20
Here are&nbsp;the objects that are missing from the compliance=20
statements:</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff=20
size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>W:=20
f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (698,1) Item "docsIfUpChannelPreEqEnable" is not =
contained=20
in any group defined in the current module<BR>W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), =
(1030,1)=20
Item "docsIfSigQExtUnerroreds" is not contained in any group defined in =
the=20
current module<BR>W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1043,1) Item =
"docsIfSigQExtCorrecteds"=20
is not contained in any group defined in the current module<BR>W:=20
f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1056,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUncorrectables" is not =
contained=20
in any group defined in the current module<BR>W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), =
(1424,1)=20
Item "docsIfCmStatusEqualizationData" is not contained in any group =
defined in=20
the current module<BR>W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2746,1) Item=20
"docsIfCmtsChannelUtilizationInterval" is not contained in any group =
defined in=20
the current module<BR>W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2810,1) Item=20
"docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization" is not contained in any group defined =
in the=20
current module</DIV>
<DIV><BR></DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D686474122-21102002><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#0000ff size=3D2>--=20
Rich</DIV></FONT></SPAN>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Raftus, David=20
  [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Friday, October 18, =
2002 3:55=20
  PM<BR><B>To:</B> Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector =
(E-mail);=20
  Ipcdn List (E-mail)<BR><B>Cc:</B> Raftus, David<BR><B>Subject:</B> =
[ipcdn] rf=20
  mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Hi=20
  everyone,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=

  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Please find=20
  attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and =
compliance=20
  statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since v4 =
regarding=20
  new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate=20
  massaging.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=

  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Comments are=20
  welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that time =
an=20
  official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the =
IETF last=20
  call process, leading to RFC =
designation.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=

  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Thanks very=20
  much,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Dave<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle15><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>=

  <P class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span><![endif]--><FONT=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">************************************<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P=
>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">David=20
  Raftus<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Imedia=20
  Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">340=20
  Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Ottawa=20
  Canada<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>K2K=20
  3A2<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">david.raftus@imedia.com<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">613.592.1052<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>ext=20
  222<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">************************************<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></I><FONT =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;</SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Tue Oct 22 08:15:28 2002
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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Bob Himlin'" <rhimlin@correlant.com>,
        "Raftus, David"
	 <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "'Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)'"
	 <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "'Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)'"
	 <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
        "'Ipcdn List (E-mail)'" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Hi Bob,
 
Thanks for your comments. Here are replies:
 
1) There is no intention to deprecate the 32 bit docsIfSigQ counters. The
situation is the same as the 32 and 64 bit counters in the
docsIfCmServiceTable introduced last year.
 
2) The new 64 bit counters already have a note saying they are a 64 bit
version of the 32 bit counters. A note could be added to the 32 bit version
to complete the loop, but there is no precedent in other 32-64 bit tandem
counter implementations for this. The 'special' behavior you cite is a
vendor specific implementation detail that would not seem to be supported by
the mib guidelines.
 
3) I haven't yet completed the compliance statements and other supporting
documentation. I wanted to get the mib in the community for comment asap, so
sent it out when the 'meat' was done. Compliance, etc will be done before
the mib goes to the IETF and before it becomes the subject of a Docsis ecr.
 
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Himlin [mailto:rhimlin@correlant.com]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 6:14 PM
To: 'Raftus, David'; 'Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)'; 'Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail)'; 'Ipcdn List (E-mail)'
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
 
Regarding the 64-bit docsIfSigQ codeword counters, is it the intent of the
authors to deprecate the 32-bit counters, or to have both 32-bit and 64-bit
counters, similar to ifTable & ifXTable octet counters?  If the intent is to
deprecate the 32-bit counters, the 32-bit objects should be listed as
deprecated, not as current.  If not, perhaps a note in the description of
the 32-bit counters should state that the 32-bit counters are intended to
reflect the 32 LSBs of the 64-bit counters.  This would prevent any unwanted
'special' behavior of the 32-bit counters on rollover, an example of which
might be to reset all the 32-bit counts to 0 when the highest one rolls (a
behavior I have observed in the past).
 
Also, the 64-bit counters are not referenced in any compliance statement.
Given they are not required by compliance statements, do you expect them to
be implemented?
 
Bob
 
-----Original Message-----
From: ipcdn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:ipcdn-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of Raftus,
David
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 12:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
 
Hi everyone,
 
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.
 
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 

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<div class=3DSection1>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Hi =
Bob,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks for
your comments. Here are replies:<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>1) There is
no intention to deprecate the 32 bit docsIfSigQ counters. The situation =
is the
same as the 32 and 64 bit counters in the docsIfCmServiceTable =
introduced last
year.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>2) The new
64 bit counters already have a note saying they are a 64 bit version of =
the 32
bit counters. A note could be added to the 32 bit version to complete =
the loop,
but there is no precedent in other 32-64 bit tandem counter =
implementations for
this. The 'special' behavior you cite is a vendor specific =
implementation
detail that would not seem to be supported by the mib =
guidelines.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>3) I
haven't yet completed the compliance statements and other supporting
documentation. I wanted to get the mib in the community for comment =
asap, so
sent it out when the 'meat' was done. Compliance, etc will be done =
before the
mib goes to the IETF and before it becomes the subject of a Docsis =
ecr.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Dave<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle18><font=20
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span style=3D"mso-spacerun:=20
yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail Signature&quot; <span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue'>************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>David =
Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite =
202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>K2K 3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>613.592.1052<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>ext 222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>************************************<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></span></font></i><font =
size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
9.0pt'><img src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C279A3.4A9EDAB0"
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width=3D0
height=3D0 class=3Dshape =
style=3D'display:none;width:0;height:0'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype =

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o:connecttype=3D"rect"/>
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</v:shapetype><v:shape id=3D"_x0000_i1026" type=3D"#_x0000_t75" =
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 <v:imagedata src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C279A3.4A9EDAB0" =
o:title=3D"imedia"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img width=3D154 height=3D46
src=3D"cid:image002.jpg@01C279A3.4A9EDAB0" =
v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1026"><![endif]></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle18><font=20
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->=
<span
class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Bob Himlin
[mailto:rhimlin@correlant.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October =
21, 2002
6:14 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Raftus, David'; =
'Docsis 20
Reflector (E-mail)'; 'Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)'; 'Ipcdn List =
(E-mail)'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ipcdn] rf =
mib draft
v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
9.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span><o:p></o:p></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Regarding the 64-bi=
t
docsIfSigQ codeword counters, is it the intent of the authors to =
deprecate the
32-bit counters, or to have both 32-bit and 64-bit counters, similar to =
ifTable
&amp; ifXTable octet counters?<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; =
</span>If
the intent is to deprecate the 32-bit counters, the 32-bit objects =
should be
listed as deprecated, not as current.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;
</span>If not, perhaps a note in the description of the 32-bit counters =
should
state that the 32-bit counters are intended to reflect the 32 LSBs of =
the
64-bit counters.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>This =
would
prevent any unwanted &#8216;special&#8217; behavior of the 32-bit =
counters on rollover, an
example of which might be to reset all the 32-bit counts to 0 when the =
highest
one rolls (a behavior I have observed in the =
past).<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Also, the 64-bit =
counters are
not referenced in any compliance statement.<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>Given they are not required by compliance =
statements, do you
expect them to be implemented?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Bob<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
ipcdn-admin@ietf.org
[mailto:ipcdn-admin@ietf.org]<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>On =
Behalf Of </span></b>Raftus,
David<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, October =
18, 2002
12:55 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Docsis 20 Reflector =
(E-mail);
Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Raftus, David<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [ipcdn] rf mib =
draft v5 -
comment period end Friday Oct 25</span></font><o:p></o:p></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
7.5pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Hi
everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Please find
attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and =
compliance
statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since v4 =
regarding
new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate =
massaging.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Comments
are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that time =
an
official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the =
IETF last
call process, leading to RFC =
designation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks very
much,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Dave<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
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Message-ID: <E54A98375651D511816A00306E06B97077714F@OTNOAMEXCH01>
From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Woundy, Richard'" <RWoundy@broadband.att.com>,
        "Raftus, David"
	 <david.raftus@imedia.com>
Cc: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
        "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 05:24:02 -0700
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Hi Rich,
 
Thanks - will incorporate.
 
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Woundy, Richard [mailto:RWoundy@broadband.att.com]
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 6:58 PM
To: 'Raftus, David'
Cc: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
 
David,
 
Here are four comments based mostly on MIB compiling this version of the
MIB:
 
1. You need to import IANAifType FROM IANAifType-MIB at the top of the MIB.
 
2. You need to change your date strings to be in extended UTC format, aka
Y2K friendly syntax. You should also reduce the number of REVISION clauses
down to two: one for the original RFC, and one for your RFC version. For
example:
 
docsIfMib MODULE-IDENTITY
        LAST-UPDATED    "200210180000Z" -- October 18, 2002
        ORGANIZATION    "IETF IPCDN Working Group"
        CONTACT-INFO
            "        David Raftus
             Postal: Imedia Semiconductor       
                     340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
                     Ottawa Ontario
                     Canada
             Phone:  +1 613 592 1052 ext.222
             E-mail: david.raftus@imedia.com
<mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com>            
 
             IETF IPCDN Working Group
             General Discussion: ipcdn@ietf.org <mailto:ipcdn@ietf.org> 
             Subscribe: http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn
<http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn> 
             Archive: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn
<ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn> 
             Co-chairs: Richard Woundy, RWoundy@broadband.att.com
<mailto:RWoundy@broadband.att.com> 
                        Jean-Francois Mule, jf.mule@cablelabs.com
<mailto:jf.mule@cablelabs.com> "
        DESCRIPTION
            "This is the MIB Module for DOCSIS 2.0 compliant Radio
             Frequency (RF) interfaces in Cable Modems (CM) and
             Cable Modem Termination Systems (CMTS)."
        REVISION "200210180000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Modified by David Raftus to ..."
        REVISION "199908190000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Initial Version, published as RFC 2670.
             Modified by Mike StJohns to fix problems identified by
             the first pass of the MIB doctor.  Of special note,
             docsIfRangingResp and docsIfCmtsInsertionInterval were
             obsoleted and replaced by other objects with the same
             functionality, but more appropriate SYNTAX."
        ::= { transmission 127 }
 
3. The object docsIfCmtsChannelUtId needs a range, because it serves as an
index for the docIfCmtsChannelUtilizationTable. Should this object have the
same value range of ifIndex, i.e. (1..2147483647)? Or can it be constrained
to a much smaller value, e.g. a maximum of 1024 or 65536?
 
4. Here are the objects that are missing from the compliance statements:
 
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (698,1) Item "docsIfUpChannelPreEqEnable" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1030,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUnerroreds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1043,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtCorrecteds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1056,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUncorrectables" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1424,1) Item "docsIfCmStatusEqualizationData" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2746,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtilizationInterval"
is not contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2810,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
 
-- Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
Hi everyone,
 
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.
 
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle19><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Hi =
Rich,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle19><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle19><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Thanks - will =
incorporate.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle19><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle19><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'>Dave<o:p></o:p></sp=
an></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle19><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle19><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span style=3D"mso-spacerun:=20
yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail Signature&quot; <span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue'>************************************<o:p></o:p></span></font=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>David =
Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite =
202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
color:blue;font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>K2K 3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

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color:blue;font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

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color:blue;font-style:italic'>613.592.1052<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp; </span>ext 222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Woundy, Richard
[mailto:RWoundy@broadband.att.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Monday, October =
21, 2002
6:58 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> 'Raftus, David'<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Docsis 20 Reflector =
(E-mail);
Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ipcdn] rf =
mib draft
v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25</span></font></p>

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style=3D'font-size:
9.0pt'><![if =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>David,</span></font><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>Here are four comments based mostly on MIB compiling =
this
version of the MIB:</span></font><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>1. You need to&nbsp;import IANAifType FROM =
IANAifType-MIB at
the top of the MIB.</span></font><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>2. You need to change your date strings&nbsp;to be =
in
extended UTC format, aka Y2K friendly syntax. You should also reduce =
the number
of REVISION clauses down to two: one for the original RFC, and one for =
your RFC
version. For example:</span></font><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>docsIfMib MODULE-IDENTITY<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
LAST-UPDATED&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;200210180000Z&quot; -- October 18, 2002<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
ORGANIZATION&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;IETF IPCDN Working Group&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; CONTACT-INFO<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; David Raftus<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

Postal: Imedia Semiconductor&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Ottawa Ontario<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Canada<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

Phone:&nbsp; +1 613 592 1052 ext.222<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

E-mail: <a =
href=3D"mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com">david.raftus@imedia.com</a>&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></font><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
IETF IPCDN Working Group<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

General Discussion: <a =
href=3D"mailto:ipcdn@ietf.org">ipcdn@ietf.org</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

Subscribe: <a =
href=3D"http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn">http://www.ietf.org/=
mailman/listinfo/ipcdn</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

Archive: <a =
href=3D"ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn">ftp://ftp.ietf.org/i=
etf-mail-archive/ipcdn</a><br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

Co-chairs: Richard Woundy, <a =
href=3D"mailto:RWoundy@broadband.att.com">RWoundy@broadband.att.com</a><=
br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
Jean-Francois Mule, <a =
href=3D"mailto:jf.mule@cablelabs.com">jf.mule@cablelabs.com</a>&quot;<br=
>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &quot=
;This
is the MIB Module for DOCSIS 2.0 compliant Radio<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

Frequency (RF) interfaces in Cable Modems (CM) and<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 Cable
Modem Termination Systems (CMTS).&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REVISION =
&quot;200210180000Z&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&quot;Modified
by David Raftus to ...&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; REVISION =
&quot;199908190000Z&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; DESCRIPTION<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
&quot;Initial Version, published as RFC 2670.<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

Modified by Mike StJohns to fix problems identified by<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
 the
first pass of the MIB doctor.&nbsp; Of special note,<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

docsIfRangingResp and docsIfCmtsInsertionInterval were<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

obsoleted and replaced by other objects with the same<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=

functionality, but more appropriate SYNTAX.&quot;<br>
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; ::=3D { transmission 127 =
}</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>3. The object docsIfCmtsChannelUtId needs a range, =
because
it&nbsp;serves as&nbsp;an index for the =
docIfCmtsChannelUtilizationTable.
Should this object have the same value range of ifIndex, i.e. =
(1..2147483647)?
Or can it be constrained to a much smaller value, e.g. a&nbsp;maximum =
of 1024
or 65536?</span></font><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>4. Here are&nbsp;the objects that are missing from =
the
compliance statements:</span></font><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New =
Roman"'>&nbsp;</span></font><font
size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:"Times New =
Roman";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (698,1) Item
&quot;docsIfUpChannelPreEqEnable&quot; is not contained in any group =
defined in
the current module<br>
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1030,1) Item =
&quot;docsIfSigQExtUnerroreds&quot; is not
contained in any group defined in the current module<br>
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1043,1) Item =
&quot;docsIfSigQExtCorrecteds&quot; is not
contained in any group defined in the current module<br>
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1056,1) Item =
&quot;docsIfSigQExtUncorrectables&quot; is
not contained in any group defined in the current module<br>
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1424,1) Item =
&quot;docsIfCmStatusEqualizationData&quot;
is not contained in any group defined in the current module<br>
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2746,1) Item =
&quot;docsIfCmtsChannelUtilizationInterval&quot;
is not contained in any group defined in the current module<br>
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2810,1) Item =
&quot;docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization&quot;
is not contained in any group defined in the current =
module<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;color:blue'>-- Rich<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:auto;margin-bottom:12.0pt;
margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma'>-----Original =
Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Raftus, David
[mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, October =
18, 2002
3:55 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Docsis 20 Reflector =
(E-mail);
Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Raftus, David<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> [ipcdn] rf mib =
draft v5 -
comment period end Friday Oct 25</span></font><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:"Times New Roman";
color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>Hi everyone,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. =
The TOC
and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions =
received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October =
25. At
that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for =
submission to
the IETF last call process, leading to RFC =
designation.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>Thanks very much,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>Dave<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><!--[if =
supportFields]><span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span style=3D"mso-spacerun:=20
yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail Signature&quot; <span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span><![endif]--><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue'>********=
****************************<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>David Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite =
202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;
</span>K2K 3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>613.592.1052<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;
</span>ext 222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><i><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dblue
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;color:blue;
font-style:italic'>************************************<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></span></font></i><font =
size=3D2><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt'><span =
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><font size=3D1 =
color=3Dblack
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:9.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:9.0pt'><img
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C279A4.6F904B00"
v:src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C279A4.6F904B00" v:shapes=3D"_x0000_Mail" =
width=3D0
height=3D0 class=3Dshape =
style=3D'display:none;width:0;height:0;display:none;
height:0px;width:0px'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id=3D"_x0000_i1025" =
type=3D"#_x0000_t75"=20
 style=3D'width:115.5pt;height:34.5pt'>
 <v:imagedata src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C279A4.6F904B00" =
o:title=3D"imedia"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img border=3D0 width=3D154 =
height=3D46
src=3D"cid:image003.jpg@01C279A4.6F904B00" =
v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1025"><![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D1><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:36.0pt'><!--[if =
supportFields]><span=20
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span><![endif]-->&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p>=


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Subject: [ipcdn] IPCDN meeting minutes from the Yokohama IETF
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Folks,

I finally finished editing the IPCDN meeting minutes. Sorry about how long
this lingered on my hard drive.

-- Rich

IETF IPCDN Meeting
Yokohama, Japan
July 15, 2002

Reported by Ted Lemon (Ted.Lemon@nominum.com)
Edited by Rich Woundy (rwoundy@broadband.att.com)


WG Meeting Summary
------------------

Approximately 30 members of the IP over Cable Data Networks WG met at the
Yokohama IETF on July 15, 2002. The WG discussed the status of its work
items, the four individual internet-draft submissions for
PacketCable/IPCablecom (to support voice over IP over cable), and the
ongoing charter revision. In addition to the four PacketCable/IPCablecom
submissions, the WG has submitted three updates to existing internet-drafts
since the last IETF meeting. Total meeting time was a little more than one
hour.

Two WG drafts were submitted to the IESG for approval: "Application of the
IGMP MIB to DOCSIS 1.1", and "DOCSIS Subscriber Management MIB". Other WG
drafts require some fixes to address minor concerns raised in last-call
before submission to the IESG.


WG Status and Charter Revision
------------------------------

Jean-Francois Mule from CableLabs is joining Rich Woundy as WG co-chair.
This was confirmed by Thomas Narten during the WG meeting.

Thanks to coordination by Matt Osman, four new individual contributions
related to PacketCable/IPCablecom technology have been submitted to the WG
(see slides). Some of the draft authors are associated with CableLabs, some
with ITU/ETSI. This is the first time this WG has seen cooperation on MIB
drafts between North American and European cable technical bodies.

The WG needs to work on revised timelines and milestones for the WG charter.
The WG faces a vortex of expired drafts; updates from authors need to start
happening really soon. Richard Woundy may be resubmitting the DVB/Euromodem
MIB drafts as historic or experimental, since all the authors are gone.

The WG needs tighter coordination with Cablelabs, particularly with the
timing of CableLabs vendor product certification waves and RFC publication.
The next CableLabs certification wave after this WG meeting is
"Certification Wave 24" (CW24), which may result in the first certifications
of PacketCable devices. It gets really difficult to modify the behavior of
certified vendor devices (e.g. changing the MIB object implementations
within the devices) after the cable operators have purchased and deployed
millions of such devices, and built operational support systems around the
original behavior. The WG needs to explore if we can do anything about this.


PacketCable/IPCablecom MIBs
---------------------------

Matt Osman presented slides on the history, motivations, and high-level
structures of the PacketCable MIBs. Matt was the key person who coordinated
the efforts of many authors of the individual contributions.

The primary focus of the PacketCable/IPCablecom project is to enable voice
services over cable networks, to copy most of the PSTN functionality into
the cable network environment. PacketCable/IPCablecom will expand to support
other multimedia services that require QoS over cable networks.

When CableLabs initiated the PacketCable project for the North American
cable operators, they defined a number of MIBs associated with its
Packetcable architecture. These MIBs were rooted under a private cablelabs
branch.

The PacketCable architecture has been adopted by the ETSI and ITU for
international use under the name of IPCablecom. The ETSI group requires some
additional MIB objects in the IPCablecom Signaling MIB. The various cable
technical bodies agreed to use a common definition of PacketCable/IPCablecom
MIBs, managed by a neutral interested standards body, i.e. the IPCDN WG.

PacketCable/IPCablecom introduces four MIB internet-drafts (see slides). The
first draft summarizes the management architecture and general MIB
requirements. The other three drafts define the MIBs for basic management of
the Multimedia Terminal Adapter (MTA), for VoIP signaling within the MTA,
and event messaging for the MTA.

There are two basic flavors of MTAs: an embedded MTA is built within the
cable modem enclosure, and a standalone MTA operates in conjunction with
(but outside of) the cable modem. A new standalone MTA MIB is in the works,
primarily to support secure software download to the standalone MTA.

A member of the WG asked what are the drivers for these MIBs: was it
PacketCable or something else? Matt Osman responded that these drafts are
PacketCable MIBS, and the goal is to make these MIBs into a WG item for
IPCDN. Rich Woundy added that his understanding is that the European cable
operators are going to leverage pretty much the same Voice over IP
technology as the North America operators. Part of the problem is that both
groups are making changes to the same MIB. We want to make it into a common
MIB so that everybody can contribute to it in a coordinated fashion. The MIB
drafts will be reviewed by both groups when there are changes. There has
been some agreement so far that what has been submitted is passable to both
groups.

A member asked whether there is effort for defining a Call Management Server
(CMS) MIB. Matt responded that this is future work, and that the authors are
concentrating on Packetcable 1.x technology. The authors have left
placeholder OIDs in every MIB, with the anticipation that there will be
other components. The authors are concentrating on what is required for
CableLabs certification for Packetcable, and more immediate deployment plans
by cable operators. Perhaps a CMS MIB will eventually be added; this will be
an interesting project because the direction for Packetcable/Cablelabs has
been CMS subscriber provisioning via XML messages.

A member asked whether there are any PacketCable MIB requirements for the
CMTS. Matt responded that there are no specific PacketCable MIBs for the
CMTS. When asked if there was a plan for any PacketCable CMTS MIBs, Matt
replied that eventually some MIBs may be defined, but at present the CMTS
requirement is to implement all the DOCSIS 1.1 MIBs.

Rich asked for a quick show of hands for how many members had read the
drafts. No hands went up.

A member asked whether the Entity MIB was taken under consideration, with
respect to the MTA MIB. The Entity MIB already includes the serial number,
software, and memory information for a generic device, and might be more
appropriate for a cable modem. Matt responded that the MTA has a separate IP
address and is completely independent from the cable modem, even when it is
embedded. Even if the cable modem and MTA are one physical unit, they have
separate IP addresses and MAC addresses.

Rich wondered whether the management of the MTA and cable modem has been
worked out. For example, if I see something happening with an MTA, how can I
figure out which cable modem it is in. These comments are worth taking under
advisement. It is one integrated device, but from the PacketCable
architecture point of view this device is separately manageable: the data
access provider could manage the CM component, and the telephony provider
could manage the MTA component. Rich asked if any other cable operators were
present; none spoke up. Rich noted that divided management of the MTA/CM
between two independent companies doesn't seem to be an accurate model
anymore.

As a side note, the PacketCable/IPCablecom MIB drafts are all private,
individual submissions -- not WG drafts. The WG chairs are going to work
with Thomas Narten to figure out what to do as the next step. Rich believes
the WG will be able to add these drafts as WG items in our charter. The
immediate question is, how should the WG respond to these particular drafts?
Publish the existing drafts immediately as experimental or informational as
a baseline, and then adopt the drafts as WG items? Or wait until IPCDN/IETF
completes its own standards-track version? This is a topic of WG and IESG
discussion.

Rich pointed out that DOCSIS 1.0 cable modems implemented an early,
internet-draft version of the Cable Device MIB (the so-called "CD-4" MIB).
Cable operators deployed these cable modems and used this pre-RFC MIB for CM
configuration and network management. Later DOCSIS 1.0 modems implemented
both the CD-4 MIB as well as the RFC 2669 MIB, so many operators continued
to use the CD-4 MIB for backward compatibility with the existing installed
base of CD-4-only modems. DOCSIS 1.1 requires that cable modems must only
implement the RFC 2669 MIB, so cable operators have to discover whether a
particular modem is 1.0 or 1.1 before using the CD-4/RFC 2669 MIB objects
(or restrict the population of cable modems in the field to particular
vendors/models, which limits the retail market). We would like to prevent
this from happening again.


Status of WG Drafts
-------------------

Application of the IGMP MIB to DOCSIS 1.1, and the Subscriber Management
MIB. These two drafts have finished WG review and are on the IESG queue.

QoS MIB. There are two outstanding editorial issues (see slides), and the
draft has expired. Rich will work this with the authors.

BPI+ MIB. There are three outstanding issues (see slides), and the draft has
expired. Rich will work this with the author.

DOCSIS 2.0 RFI MIB (RFC 2670 update). Rich was curious about what people
think about the maturity of this MIB. The WG attempted last call on this
draft last year, but perhaps that was too early. The development of this MIB
since then seems to have stabilized; perhaps one last version is needed
before a successful WG last call

DOCSIS Cable Device MIB. Rich released a new draft version, and asked for
some help with the disposition of docsDevNmAccessTable. On the one hand,
docsDevNmAccessTable should be deprecated due to its overlap with the SNMP
coexistence document (RFC 2576), e.g. the objects in SNMP-COMMUNITY-MIB. On
the other hand, CableLabs still requires the implementation of
docsDevNmAccessTable for backward compatibility reasons.

DVB/Euromodem MIBs. Rich proposed a September deadline to determine whether
there is interest in the Euromodem technical community to continue the
effort on the four (expired) drafts.

DOCSIS 1.1 event notifications. A whole new MIB draft is being circulated in
CableLabs, that must be reconciled with this (expired) draft.

There are seven new internet drafts within the scope of the WG.


Charter Status and Close
------------------------

What are we going to do in general about embedded DOCSIS devices (e.g.
devices with an embedded DOCSIS cable modem)? This is a real problem for
DHCP, SNMP, and many other protocols. What are we going to do about firmware
management? If you have a device that's both a PacketCable MTA and a DOCSIS
cable modem, which mechanism should be used for secure firmware downloads?
Use RFC 2669 plus the secure download functionality in the BPI+ MIB? Or
define a new MIB for secure download that includes HTTP as well as TFTP?
What's the "maximum number of CPEs" that an embedded DOCSIS device should
allow to forward traffic?  AT&T Broadband thought that the number of CPEs
included internal components like PacketCable MTAs, but it turns out that
Time Warner Cable has been telling vendors the opposite. Different embedded
DOCSIS devices use different values for DHCP option 60 -- is this destroying
the value of DHCP option 60 with what we're doing?

Rich noted the need for new milestones for WG items.

Rich offered to build a small website for communication to the IPCDN WG, in
addition to the standard IETF IPCDN website. This would prevent a recent
incident where people couldn't find an (expired) draft on the IETF website,
resulting in much mis-communication on CableLabs mailing lists.

A member asked about whether the WG was going to work on an Accounting MIB.
Rich mentioned that there was mild interest in such a MIB about a year ago,
but there was little cable operator interest and no author volunteers. Such
a MIB can be discussed on the mailing list, but unless there's a MIB to
discuss there's not much to say. An item doesn't have to be a MIB to be a WG
item, but things we discuss in the WG are to be related to drafts.

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From: "Woundy, Richard" <RWoundy@broadband.att.com>
To: "'Raftus, David'" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
cc: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
        "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:33:21 -0600
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David,

Here are some non-MIB-compiler comments on your draft.

1. In many subsections of section 3.2.5, you refer to "MAC packets as well
as data packets" (e.g. section 3.2.5.1.1, ifOutOctets), or refer to "data
packets as well as MAC layer packets". Would it be correct and more precise
to change "MAC packets" and "MAC layer packets" to "MAC management
messages"?

2. Please remove the extraneous 'n' from the DESCRIPTION of:

docsIfCmtsCmStatusIpAddress OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX      IpAddress
        MAX-ACCESS  read-only
        STATUS      deprecated
        DESCRIPTION
            "IP address of this Cable Modem. If the Cable Modem has no
             IP address assigned, or the IP address is unknown, this
             object returns a value of 0.0.0.0. If the Cable Modem has
             multiple IP addresses, this object returns the IP address
             associated with the Cable interface.n 
             This object has been deprecated and replaced by
             docsIfCmtsCmStatusInetAddressType and
             docsIfCmtsCmStatusInetAddress, to enable IPv6 addressing
             in the future."
        ::= { docsIfCmtsCmStatusEntry 3 }

3. Please update references [23], [25], and [26] with the most current
versions of these specifications. Note that [16] is not used anywhere, and
refers to an old version of RFI 1.0.

I am still working on some Security Considerations comments for your draft,
that I will send out tonight.

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Woundy, Richard 
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 6:58 PM
To: 'Raftus, David'
Cc: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


David,

Here are four comments based mostly on MIB compiling this version of the
MIB:

1. You need to import IANAifType FROM IANAifType-MIB at the top of the MIB.

2. You need to change your date strings to be in extended UTC format, aka
Y2K friendly syntax. You should also reduce the number of REVISION clauses
down to two: one for the original RFC, and one for your RFC version. For
example:

docsIfMib MODULE-IDENTITY
        LAST-UPDATED    "200210180000Z" -- October 18, 2002
        ORGANIZATION    "IETF IPCDN Working Group"
        CONTACT-INFO
            "        David Raftus
             Postal: Imedia Semiconductor       
                     340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
                     Ottawa Ontario
                     Canada
             Phone:  +1 613 592 1052 ext.222
             E-mail: david.raftus@imedia.com           

             IETF IPCDN Working Group
             General Discussion: ipcdn@ietf.org
             Subscribe: http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn
             Archive: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn
             Co-chairs: Richard Woundy, RWoundy@broadband.att.com
                        Jean-Francois Mule, jf.mule@cablelabs.com"
        DESCRIPTION
            "This is the MIB Module for DOCSIS 2.0 compliant Radio
             Frequency (RF) interfaces in Cable Modems (CM) and
             Cable Modem Termination Systems (CMTS)."
        REVISION "200210180000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Modified by David Raftus to ..."
        REVISION "199908190000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Initial Version, published as RFC 2670.
             Modified by Mike StJohns to fix problems identified by
             the first pass of the MIB doctor.  Of special note,
             docsIfRangingResp and docsIfCmtsInsertionInterval were
             obsoleted and replaced by other objects with the same
             functionality, but more appropriate SYNTAX."
        ::= { transmission 127 }

3. The object docsIfCmtsChannelUtId needs a range, because it serves as an
index for the docIfCmtsChannelUtilizationTable. Should this object have the
same value range of ifIndex, i.e. (1..2147483647)? Or can it be constrained
to a much smaller value, e.g. a maximum of 1024 or 65536?

4. Here are the objects that are missing from the compliance statements:

W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (698,1) Item "docsIfUpChannelPreEqEnable" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1030,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUnerroreds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1043,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtCorrecteds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1056,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUncorrectables" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1424,1) Item "docsIfCmStatusEqualizationData" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2746,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtilizationInterval"
is not contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2810,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module


-- Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,
 
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.
 
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 

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From: "Margo Dolas" <mdolas@broadcom.com>
To: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Dave,

I have one minor comment on the docsIfCmtsChannelUtilization object.

For granted slots, once the CMTS has made the grant, that bandwidth is
"utilized" regardless of whether the CM actually puts a burst in that slot
or not.  I think that the wording in the mib spec needs to be modified so
that any grant counts as "utilized".

How about the following text change?
Replace -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS received an
              upstream burst from any CM on the physical channel, regardless
              of burst type.

With -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS granted bandwidth
to
              any CM on the physical channel, regardless of burst type.

Regards,
Margo


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com [mailto:owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com]On
Behalf Of Raftus, David
Sent: Friday, 18 October, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,

Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.

Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.

Thanks very much,
Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************




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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'" <Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM>,
        "Raftus, David"
	 <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
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Hi Greg,
 
Appreciate your point, but this utilization model was actually suggested by
the MSOs.  The statistics are given per physical channel, whereas other
maintained counts accessible through SNMP are per logical channel.
Parameters used in the utilization calculations such as raw bandwidth,
filler bits, etc are not readily available through snmp. 
 
Not to sound like a salesman, but this method also provides a convenient one
line per physical channel summary of utilization stats.
 
Thanks,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:35 PM
To: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
 

Hi Dave, 

We have a comment regarding the percentage utilization calculation: 
docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization OBJECT-TYPE
       SYNTAX       Integer32 (0..100)
       UNITS        "percent"

We couldn't find a precedent for computing a running percentage 
in any of the existing standard MIBs required by DOCSIS. 
Usually an SNMP agent just reports a set of counter values when 
polled by an SNMP manager. The manager then polls the MIB counters 
at an interval that it sets (ala MRTG) and then computes the delta 
utilization and percentage from these samples.  This would also allow 
multiple managers to poll at independent rates. 

Regards, 
Greg 






 
"Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com> 
Sent by: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com 
10/18/02 02:55 PM 
        
        To:        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
"Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>, "Ipcdn List
(E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org> 
        cc:        "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com> 
        Subject:        rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25



Hi everyone, 
  
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging. 
  
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation. 
  
Thanks very much, 
Dave 
  
************************************ 
David Raftus 
Imedia Semiconductor 
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202 
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2 
  
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222 
************************************               
  

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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>H=
i Greg,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>A=
ppreciate
your point, but this utilization model was actually suggested by the =
MSOs. <span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>The statistics are given per =
physical
channel, whereas other maintained counts accessible through SNMP are =
per
logical channel. Parameters used in the utilization calculations such =
as raw
bandwidth, filler bits, etc are not readily available through snmp. =
<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>N=
ot to
sound like a salesman, but this method also provides a convenient one =
line per
physical channel summary of utilization =
stats.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
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color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
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hanks,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

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color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
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12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
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<span
class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if =
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<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM
[mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, October =
25, 2002 3:35
PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Raftus, David; =
Docsis 20
Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List =
(E-mail)<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: rf mib =
draft v5 -
comment period end Friday Oct 25</span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>Hi =
Dave,</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>We =
have a
comment regarding the percentage utilization =
calculation:</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization
OBJECT-TYPE<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;SYNTAX &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Integer32 =
(0..100)<br>
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;UNITS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;&quot;percent&quot;<br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>We =
couldn't find
a precedent for computing a running percentage</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>in any =
of the
existing standard MIBs required by DOCSIS.</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Usually an SNMP agent
just reports a set of counter values when</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>polled =
by an
SNMP manager. The manager then polls the MIB =
counters</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'>at an =
interval
that it sets (ala MRTG) and then computes the delta</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>utilization and
percentage from these samples. &nbsp;This would also allow =
</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>multiple
managers to poll at independent rates.</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><br>
Regards,</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> =
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>Greg</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<table border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" =
style=3D'width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:
 1.5pt;mso-padding-alt:0pt 0pt 0pt 0pt'>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><font =
size=3D3
  color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy;
  mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
>&quot;Raftus,
  David&quot; &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;</span></font></b><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Sent by: =
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
  =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
  <p><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
  font-family:Arial;color:black'>10/18/02 02:55 PM</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
  =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;
  &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'><br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: =
&nbsp;
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)&quot; =
&lt;docsis-20@cablelabs.com&gt;,
  &quot;Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)&quot; =
&lt;docsis-oss@cablelabs.com&gt;,
  &quot;Ipcdn List (E-mail)&quot; =
&lt;ipcdn@ietf.org&gt;</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: =
&nbsp;
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Raftus, David&quot; =
&lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
Subject:
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;rf mib draft v5 - comment period end =
Friday Oct 25</span></font><font
  color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Hi everyone,</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Please find attached a draft of the =
Docsis RF
Interface mib v5. The TOC and compliance statements have not been =
updated, but
suggestions received since v4 regarding new mib objects have been =
incorporated
after appropriate massaging.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Comments are welcome on this draft until =
5pm EST
Friday October 25. At that time an official version of the draft will =
be
prepared for submission to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC
designation.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Thanks very much,</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Dave</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
color:blue'>************************************</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>David =
Raftus</span></font></i><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor</span></font></i><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, =
Suite 202</span></font></i><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada &nbsp;K2K =
3A2</span></font></i><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>&nbsp;</span></font></i>=
<font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com =
&nbsp;
&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </span></font></i><font color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>613.592.1052 &nbsp;ext =
222</span></font></i><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dnavy><span
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>************************=
************
&nbsp;</span></font></i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
color:black'> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
</span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;
color:black'>&nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;
mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

</div>

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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Fri Oct 25 20:58:20 2002
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From: "Woundy, Richard" <RWoundy@broadband.att.com>
To: "'Raftus, David'" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
cc: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
        "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:58:44 -0600
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David,

One concrete comment on the Security Considerations: please replace the
(non-existent) object 'docsIfCmtsServerQosProfile' with
'docsIfCmtsServiceQosProfile' in the text. This is an error carried over
from RFC 2670.

I am trying to evaluate whether any of the MIB objects are "sensitive",
according to the Security Considerations text in
<http://www.ops.ietf.org/security.html>. In particular, I am wondering
whether the MAC addresses and IP addresses (and how they are related) in the
docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable and docsIfCmtsMacToCmTable are "sensitive". If they
are, we would need to add text similar to the following:

   There are a number of managed objects in this MIB that may contain
   sensitive information. These are:

       < list the objects and state why they are sensitive >

   It is thus important to control even GET access to these objects and
   possibly to even encrypt the values of these object when sending them
   over the network via SNMP.  Not all versions of SNMP provide features
   for such a secure environment.

If we don't get a timely answer for the "sensitive objects" question above,
I would go ahead and publish a draft for WG last-call, incorporating the
rest of the comments from myself and others on the mailing list.

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Woundy, Richard 
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:33 PM
To: 'Raftus, David'
Cc: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn
List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


David,

Here are some non-MIB-compiler comments on your draft.

1. In many subsections of section 3.2.5, you refer to "MAC packets as well
as data packets" (e.g. section 3.2.5.1.1, ifOutOctets), or refer to "data
packets as well as MAC layer packets". Would it be correct and more precise
to change "MAC packets" and "MAC layer packets" to "MAC management
messages"?

2. Please remove the extraneous 'n' from the DESCRIPTION of:

docsIfCmtsCmStatusIpAddress OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX      IpAddress
        MAX-ACCESS  read-only
        STATUS      deprecated
        DESCRIPTION
            "IP address of this Cable Modem. If the Cable Modem has no
             IP address assigned, or the IP address is unknown, this
             object returns a value of 0.0.0.0. If the Cable Modem has
             multiple IP addresses, this object returns the IP address
             associated with the Cable interface.n 
             This object has been deprecated and replaced by
             docsIfCmtsCmStatusInetAddressType and
             docsIfCmtsCmStatusInetAddress, to enable IPv6 addressing
             in the future."
        ::= { docsIfCmtsCmStatusEntry 3 }

3. Please update references [23], [25], and [26] with the most current
versions of these specifications. Note that [16] is not used anywhere, and
refers to an old version of RFI 1.0.

I am still working on some Security Considerations comments for your draft,
that I will send out tonight.

-- Rich

-----Original Message-----
From: Woundy, Richard 
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2002 6:58 PM
To: 'Raftus, David'
Cc: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


David,

Here are four comments based mostly on MIB compiling this version of the
MIB:

1. You need to import IANAifType FROM IANAifType-MIB at the top of the MIB.

2. You need to change your date strings to be in extended UTC format, aka
Y2K friendly syntax. You should also reduce the number of REVISION clauses
down to two: one for the original RFC, and one for your RFC version. For
example:

docsIfMib MODULE-IDENTITY
        LAST-UPDATED    "200210180000Z" -- October 18, 2002
        ORGANIZATION    "IETF IPCDN Working Group"
        CONTACT-INFO
            "        David Raftus
             Postal: Imedia Semiconductor       
                     340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
                     Ottawa Ontario
                     Canada
             Phone:  +1 613 592 1052 ext.222
             E-mail: david.raftus@imedia.com           

             IETF IPCDN Working Group
             General Discussion: ipcdn@ietf.org
             Subscribe: http://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn
             Archive: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf-mail-archive/ipcdn
             Co-chairs: Richard Woundy, RWoundy@broadband.att.com
                        Jean-Francois Mule, jf.mule@cablelabs.com"
        DESCRIPTION
            "This is the MIB Module for DOCSIS 2.0 compliant Radio
             Frequency (RF) interfaces in Cable Modems (CM) and
             Cable Modem Termination Systems (CMTS)."
        REVISION "200210180000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Modified by David Raftus to ..."
        REVISION "199908190000Z"
        DESCRIPTION
            "Initial Version, published as RFC 2670.
             Modified by Mike StJohns to fix problems identified by
             the first pass of the MIB doctor.  Of special note,
             docsIfRangingResp and docsIfCmtsInsertionInterval were
             obsoleted and replaced by other objects with the same
             functionality, but more appropriate SYNTAX."
        ::= { transmission 127 }

3. The object docsIfCmtsChannelUtId needs a range, because it serves as an
index for the docIfCmtsChannelUtilizationTable. Should this object have the
same value range of ifIndex, i.e. (1..2147483647)? Or can it be constrained
to a much smaller value, e.g. a maximum of 1024 or 65536?

4. Here are the objects that are missing from the compliance statements:

W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (698,1) Item "docsIfUpChannelPreEqEnable" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1030,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUnerroreds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1043,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtCorrecteds" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1056,1) Item "docsIfSigQExtUncorrectables" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (1424,1) Item "docsIfCmStatusEqualizationData" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2746,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtilizationInterval"
is not contained in any group defined in the current module
W: f(DOCS-IF-MIB.mi2), (2810,1) Item "docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization" is not
contained in any group defined in the current module


-- Rich
-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Friday, October 18, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: [ipcdn] rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,
 
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.
 
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 

_______________________________________________
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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn


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https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipcdn



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From: Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM
To: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: [ipcdn] Re: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Hi Dave,

We have a comment regarding the percentage utilization calculation:
docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX       Integer32 (0..100)
        UNITS        "percent"

We couldn't find a precedent for computing a running percentage
in any of the existing standard MIBs required by DOCSIS.
Usually an SNMP agent just reports a set of counter values when
polled by an SNMP manager. The manager then polls the MIB counters
at an interval that it sets (ala MRTG) and then computes the delta
utilization and percentage from these samples.  This would also allow 
multiple managers to poll at independent rates.

Regards,
Greg







"Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
Sent by: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
10/18/02 02:55 PM

 
        To:     "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>, "Docsis Oss 
Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" 
<ipcdn@ietf.org>
        cc:     "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
        Subject:        rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,
 
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC 
and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received 
since v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after 
appropriate massaging.
 
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At 
that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission 
to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
 
Thanks very much,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com 
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************   

 

--=_alternative 006B9A9A86256C5D_=
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"


<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Hi Dave,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">We have a comment regarding the percentage utilization calculation:</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization OBJECT-TYPE<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;SYNTAX &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Integer32 (0..100)<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;UNITS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;percent&quot;<br>
</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">We couldn't find a precedent for computing a running percentage</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">in any of the existing standard MIBs required by DOCSIS.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Usually an SNMP agent just reports a set of counter values when</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">polled by an SNMP manager. The manager then polls the MIB counters</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">at an interval that it sets (ala MRTG) and then computes the delta</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">utilization and percentage from these samples. &nbsp;This would also allow </font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">multiple managers to poll at independent rates.</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Regards,</font>
<br><font size=2 face="Courier New">Greg</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>&quot;Raftus, David&quot; &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;</b></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">10/18/02 02:55 PM</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)&quot; &lt;docsis-20@cablelabs.com&gt;, &quot;Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)&quot; &lt;docsis-oss@cablelabs.com&gt;, &quot;Ipcdn List (E-mail)&quot; &lt;ipcdn@ietf.org&gt;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Raftus, David&quot; &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="Arial">Hi everyone,</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate massaging.</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Thanks very much,</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Dave</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Times New Roman">************************************</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>David Raftus</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>Imedia Semiconductor</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>Ottawa Canada &nbsp;K2K 3A2</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>&nbsp;</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>david.raftus@imedia.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>613.592.1052 &nbsp;ext 222</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>************************************ &nbsp;</i></font><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<p>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font>
<p>
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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2002 12:04:00 -0700
To: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
From: Minnie Lu <milu@cisco.com>
Cc: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
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Hi, Raftus,

    There is conflict between RFI spec. and the following MIB object range

  docsIfQosProfMaxTransmitBurst OBJECT-TYPE
         SYNTAX      Integer32 (0..1522)  <===========
         MAX-ACCESS  read-create
         STATUS      current
         DESCRIPTION
             "The maximum number of bytes that may be requested for a
              single upstream transmission. A value of zero means there
              is no limit. Note: This value does not include any
              physical layer overhead.
              MUST NOT be changed while this row is active."
         REFERENCE
             "Document [25] from References, Appendix C.1.1.4."
         DEFVAL { 0 }
         ::= { docsIfQosProfileEntry 9 }

In RFIv1.1 (C1.1.4.6) and RFIv2.0 (C1.1.4.6), it defined 2 bytes and does 
not have upper limit to 1522.    This conflict exists in v4 version which 
is in use by OSSI spec. (1.1, and 2.0).

  Any reason for MIB to have such upper limit ? If not, would you please 
correct this error in the MIB file ?



Thanks a lot !
Minnie


At 12:55 PM 10/18/2002 -0700, Raftus, David wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>
>
>Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC 
>and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received 
>since v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after 
>appropriate massaging.
>
>
>
>Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At 
>that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission 
>to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
>
>
>
>Thanks very much,
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>************************************
>
>David Raftus
>
>Imedia Semiconductor
>
>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
>
>Ottawa Canada
>
>david.raftus@imedia.com613.592.1052************************************ 
>58147a.jpg581498.jpg
>
>
>
>

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From: Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM
To: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
Cc: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
        "'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'" <Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM>,
        "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>, owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
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Subject: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Dave,

Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email.

Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the 
basic premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a 
physical interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even 
discussing how many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these 
statistical measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so 
we acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements.

We also like the idea of "displaying one line per physical channel summary of utilization stats in 
displays", but the manner in which the data is displayed seems not to be related to 
how the data is stored in the MIB. We think that the goal of displaying 
one line per physical channel can be accomplished in many ways without 
affecting the manner in which the data is stored or sampled. 

There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we 
wanted to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described 
in the draft.

Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that 
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can occur 
as a result of that approach.

1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS. 
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact 
that it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the 
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In 
that case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and 
destroys the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers 
that were already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP 
managers are not even aware that their data collection was corrupted 
without checking.

2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is 
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) and 
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of time. 
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to support 
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display 
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the low-resolution 
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas 
the high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst) 
measurements.

3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling 
interval is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short 
sampling interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution 
statistic (with a long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to 
store ALL of the samples that the agent creates with the short sampling 
intervals and "averaging the averages". However, to do this averaging of 
averages, the SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to 
the sampling window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. 
Otherwise,  it may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more 
than once. Since it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be 
synchronized with the CMTS sampling interval, this approximation (using an 
average of averages) is unlikely to be correct in a real-world 
implementation.

Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that 
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had 
originally intended. 

We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the 
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems 
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified 
approach should be based on counters.

All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw bandwidth, 
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be 
sampled from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to 
their desired resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter 
sample at the beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample 
at the end of the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values 
and divide by the window size to create the average. As a result of this 
approach, multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere 
with one another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both 
long-term and short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and 
long windows that are overlapping one another. We believe that this 
approach provides more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that 
MSOs want. Using this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may 
accommodate the needs of more MSOs. 

Thanks,
Tom


Tom Cloonan
CTO- Broadband Division
ARRIS

Phone:  630-281-3050
Fax:       630-955-9870
e-mail:    tom.cloonan@arrisi.com




"Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
Sent by: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
10/25/2002 04:17 PM

 
        To:     "'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'" <Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com>, "Raftus, David" 
<david.raftus@imedia.com>, "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" 
<docsis-20@cablelabs.com>, "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" 
<docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>
        cc: 
        Subject:        RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi Greg,
 
Appreciate your point, but this utilization model was actually suggested 
by the MSOs.  The statistics are given per physical channel, whereas other 
maintained counts accessible through SNMP are per logical channel. 
Parameters used in the utilization calculations such as raw bandwidth, 
filler bits, etc are not readily available through snmp. 
 
Not to sound like a salesman, but this method also provides a convenient 
one line per physical channel summary of utilization stats.
 
Thanks,
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com 
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************   

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:35 PM
To: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector 
(E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: Re: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
 

Hi Dave, 

We have a comment regarding the percentage utilization calculation: 
docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization OBJECT-TYPE
       SYNTAX       Integer32 (0..100)
       UNITS        "percent"

We couldn't find a precedent for computing a running percentage 
in any of the existing standard MIBs required by DOCSIS. 
Usually an SNMP agent just reports a set of counter values when 
polled by an SNMP manager. The manager then polls the MIB counters 
at an interval that it sets (ala MRTG) and then computes the delta 
utilization and percentage from these samples.  This would also allow 
multiple managers to poll at independent rates. 

Regards, 
Greg 





 
"Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com> 
Sent by: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com 
10/18/02 02:55 PM 
 
        To:        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" 
<docsis-20@cablelabs.com>, "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" 
<docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org> 
        cc:        "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com> 
        Subject:        rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25



Hi everyone, 
  
Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC 
and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received 
since v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after 
appropriate massaging. 
  
Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At 
that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission 
to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation. 
  
Thanks very much, 
Dave 
  
************************************ 
David Raftus 
Imedia Semiconductor 
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202 
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2 
  
david.raftus@imedia.com 
613.592.1052  ext 222 
************************************   
 


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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Dave,</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the basic premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a physical interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing how many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We also like the idea of </font><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">&quot;displaying one line per physical channel summary of utilization stats in displays&quot;,</font><font size=2 face="sans-serif"> but the manner in which the data is displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. We think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can be accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the data is stored or sampled. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we wanted to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in the draft.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can occur as a result of that approach.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS. The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact that it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In that case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and destroys the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that were already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers are not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without checking.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) and with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of time. Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to support this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the low-resolution sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas the high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst) measurements.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling interval is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short sampling interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic (with a long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of the samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals and &quot;averaging the averages&quot;. However, to do this averaging of averages, the SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the sampling window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise, &nbsp;it may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. Since it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the CMTS sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) is unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had originally intended. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified approach should be based on counters.</font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw bandwidth, data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be sampled from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their desired resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at the beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end of the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide by the window size to create the average. As a result of this approach, multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with one another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term and short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long windows that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach provides more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. Using this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod!
 ate the needs of more MSOs. </font>
<br>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">Thanks,<br>
Tom</font>
<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif"><br>
<br>
Tom Cloonan<br>
CTO- Broadband Division<br>
ARRIS<br>
<br>
Phone: &nbsp;630-281-3050<br>
Fax: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 630-955-9870<br>
e-mail: &nbsp; &nbsp;tom.cloonan@arrisi.com</font>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td>
<td><font size=1 face="sans-serif"><b>&quot;Raftus, David&quot; &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;</b></font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">Sent by: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com</font>
<p><font size=1 face="sans-serif">10/25/2002 04:17 PM</font>
<br>
<td><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'&quot; &lt;Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com&gt;, &quot;Raftus, David&quot; &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;, &quot;Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)&quot; &lt;docsis-20@cablelabs.com&gt;, &quot;Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)&quot; &lt;docsis-oss@cablelabs.com&gt;, &quot;Ipcdn List (E-mail)&quot; &lt;ipcdn@ietf.org&gt;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</font>
<br><font size=1 face="sans-serif">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25</font></table>
<br>
<br>
<br><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">Hi Greg,</font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">Appreciate your point, but this utilization model was actually suggested by the MSOs. &nbsp;The statistics are given per physical channel, whereas other maintained counts accessible through SNMP are per logical channel. Parameters used in the utilization calculations such as raw bandwidth, filler bits, etc are not readily available through snmp. </font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">Not to sound like a salesman, but this method also provides a convenient one line per physical channel summary of utilization stats.</font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">Thanks,</font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">Dave</font>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial">************************************</font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>David Raftus</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>Imedia Semiconductor</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>Ottawa Canada &nbsp;K2K 3A2</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>&nbsp;</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>david.raftus@imedia.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>613.592.1052 &nbsp;ext 222</i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>************************************ &nbsp;</i></font><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial"> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<p><img src=cid:_2_37AC00004ED0007EE59E86256C5D>
<p><font size=2 color=#000080 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Tahoma">-----Original Message-----<b><br>
From:</b> Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]<b><br>
Sent:</b> Friday, October 25, 2002 3:35 PM<b><br>
To:</b> Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)<b><br>
Subject:</b> Re: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25</font>
<p><font size=3 color=#000080 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font>
<p><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Hi Dave,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
We have a comment regarding the percentage utilization calculation:</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
docsIfCmtsChannelUtUtilization OBJECT-TYPE<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; SYNTAX &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Integer32 (0..100)<br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; UNITS &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;percent&quot;</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
</font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
We couldn't find a precedent for computing a running percentage</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
in any of the existing standard MIBs required by DOCSIS.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Usually an SNMP agent just reports a set of counter values when</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
polled by an SNMP manager. The manager then polls the MIB counters</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
at an interval that it sets (ala MRTG) and then computes the delta</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
utilization and percentage from these samples. &nbsp;This would also allow <br>
multiple managers to poll at independent rates.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
<br>
Regards,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=2 face="Courier New"><br>
Greg</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> <br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
</font>
<p>
<table width=100%>
<tr valign=top>
<td width=1%><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp;</font>
<td width=26%><font size=1 face="Arial"><b>&quot;Raftus, David&quot; &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;</b></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 face="Arial"><br>
Sent by: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=1 face="Arial">10/18/02 02:55 PM</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<td width=71%><font size=1 face="Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)&quot; &lt;docsis-20@cablelabs.com&gt;, &quot;Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)&quot; &lt;docsis-oss@cablelabs.com&gt;, &quot;Ipcdn List (E-mail)&quot; &lt;ipcdn@ietf.org&gt;</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 face="Arial"><br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Raftus, David&quot; &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font><font size=1 face="Arial"><br>
 &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25</font></table>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"><br>
<br>
</font><font size=2 face="Arial"><br>
Hi everyone,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate massaging.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Thanks very much,</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">Dave</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 face="Arial">&nbsp;</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Times New Roman">************************************</font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>David Raftus</i></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>Imedia Semiconductor</i></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202</i></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>Ottawa Canada &nbsp;K2K 3A2</i></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>&nbsp;</i></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>david.raftus@imedia.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </i></font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>613.592.1052 &nbsp;ext 222</i></font><font size=3 face="Times New Roman"> </font>
<p><font size=2 color=blue face="Arial"><i>************************************ &nbsp;</i></font><font size=2 face="Times New Roman"> &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </font>
<p><font size=3 face="Times New Roman">&nbsp; </font>
<p>
<p>
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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Mon Oct 28 09:32:23 2002
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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Margo Dolas'" <mdolas@broadcom.com>,
        "Raftus, David"
	 <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)"
	 <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Hi Margo,

Thanks for your comments. However, I don't think your suggestion would
provide an actual real-world view of utilization as required by the MSOs.
Since the scheduler cannot have any gaps in the upstream, your model would
always provide close to 100% utilization, which is deceptive.  Also, UGS
grants from the CMTS when the channel is idle may increase the utilization
figure.

I do think that the actual upstream bursts received from the CM provide a
truer picture of utilization.

Thanks,
Dave 

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


-----Original Message-----
From: Margo Dolas [mailto:mdolas@broadcom.com]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:46 PM
To: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25

Dave,

I have one minor comment on the docsIfCmtsChannelUtilization object.

For granted slots, once the CMTS has made the grant, that bandwidth is
"utilized" regardless of whether the CM actually puts a burst in that slot
or not.  I think that the wording in the mib spec needs to be modified so
that any grant counts as "utilized".

How about the following text change?
Replace -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS received an
              upstream burst from any CM on the physical channel, regardless
              of burst type.

With -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS granted bandwidth
to
              any CM on the physical channel, regardless of burst type.

Regards,
Margo


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com [mailto:owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com]On
Behalf Of Raftus, David
Sent: Friday, 18 October, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,

Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.

Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.

Thanks very much,
Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************


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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Mon Oct 28 09:36:11 2002
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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Minnie Lu'" <milu@cisco.com>,
        "Raftus, David"
	 <david.raftus@imedia.com>
Cc: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
        "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>,
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	 <rwoundy@broadband.att.com>
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Hi Minnie,

Thanks for your suggestion. I don't have an issue with increasing the upper
range of this object from 1522 to 65535. The limit of 1522 was chosen when
the object was created since it seemed to be an accurate value that would
not require change. This has proven to be short-sighted.

Thanks,
Raftus (:))


************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


-----Original Message-----
From: Minnie Lu [mailto:milu@cisco.com]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:04 PM
To: Raftus, David
Cc: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail); milu@cisco.com
Subject: Re: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25

Hi, Raftus,

    There is conflict between RFI spec. and the following MIB object range

  docsIfQosProfMaxTransmitBurst OBJECT-TYPE
         SYNTAX      Integer32 (0..1522)  <===========
         MAX-ACCESS  read-create
         STATUS      current
         DESCRIPTION
             "The maximum number of bytes that may be requested for a
              single upstream transmission. A value of zero means there
              is no limit. Note: This value does not include any
              physical layer overhead.
              MUST NOT be changed while this row is active."
         REFERENCE
             "Document [25] from References, Appendix C.1.1.4."
         DEFVAL { 0 }
         ::= { docsIfQosProfileEntry 9 }

In RFIv1.1 (C1.1.4.6) and RFIv2.0 (C1.1.4.6), it defined 2 bytes and does
not have upper limit to 1522.    This conflict exists in v4 version which
is in use by OSSI spec. (1.1, and 2.0).

  Any reason for MIB to have such upper limit ? If not, would you please
correct this error in the MIB file ?



Thanks a lot !
Minnie


At 12:55 PM 10/18/2002 -0700, Raftus, David wrote:

>Hi everyone,
>
>
>
>Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC
>and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received
>since v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after
>appropriate massaging.
>
>
>
>Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At
>that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission
>to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
>
>
>
>Thanks very much,
>
>Dave
>
>
>
>************************************
>
>David Raftus
>
>Imedia Semiconductor
>
>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
>
>Ottawa Canada
>
>david.raftus@imedia.com613.592.1052************************************
>58147a.jpg581498.jpg
>
>
>
>
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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Mon Oct 28 10:20:18 2002
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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'" <Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com>,
        "Raftus, David"
	 <david.raftus@imedia.com>
Cc: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2
	5
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Hi Tom,

Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially though
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel utilization
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured their
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be seen as
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already have
expressed their desires.

Please see individual responses inline.

Regards,
Dave



Dave, 

Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email. 

Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the basic
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a physical
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing how
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements. 

We also like the idea of "displaying one line per physical channel summary
of utilization stats in displays", but the manner in which the data is
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. We
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can be
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the data is
stored or sampled. 

There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we wanted
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in the
draft. 

Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can occur as
a result of that approach. 

1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS.
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact that
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In that
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and destroys
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that were
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers are
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without checking. 

<dave>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management problem.
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be an
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table could
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the others.
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when the
most recent interval started, or when it would end.  
<end dave>


2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) and
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of time.
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to support
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the low-resolution
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas the
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst)
measurements.
 
<dave>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from doing
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup sampling
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. The
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical channel
utilization.
<end dave>

3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling interval
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short sampling
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic (with a
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of the
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals and
"averaging the averages". However, to do this averaging of averages, the
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the sampling
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise,  it
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. Since
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the CMTS
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) is
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation. 

<dave>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick fairly
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from gathering
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want through
other methods available to them.
<end dave>

Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had
originally intended. 

We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified
approach should be based on counters. 

All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw bandwidth,
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be sampled
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their desired
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at the
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end of
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide by
the window size to create the average. As a result of this approach,
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with one
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term and
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long windows
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach provides
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. Using
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate the
needs of more MSOs. 

Thanks,
Tom 


Tom Cloonan
CTO- Broadband Division
ARRIS

Phone:  630-281-3050
Fax:       630-955-9870
e-mail:    tom.cloonan@arrisi.com

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com [mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] 
Sent:	Friday, October 25, 2002 7:04 PM
To:	Raftus, David
Cc:	Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
Subject:	[ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
25

 << Message:  >>  << File: image001.png >>  << File: image002.jpg >> 
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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Minnie Lu'" <milu@cisco.com>,
        "Raftus, David"
	 <david.raftus@imedia.com>
Cc: "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
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Subject: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Hi Minnie,

Please see oss-n-02106/oss2-n-02107.

Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


-----Original Message-----
From: Minnie Lu [mailto:milu@cisco.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 1:52 PM
To: Raftus, David
Cc: 'Minnie Lu'; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)
Subject: RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25

Hi, Raftus,

Thanks a lot for fixing the conflicts.
By the way, before v5 is accepted by CableLabs, I think that we need an ECR
for v4 for OSSI spec..

Thanks!
Minnie

At 06:36 AM 10/28/2002 -0800, Raftus, David wrote:
>Hi Minnie,
>
>Thanks for your suggestion. I don't have an issue with increasing the upper
>range of this object from 1522 to 65535. The limit of 1522 was chosen when
>the object was created since it seemed to be an accurate value that would
>not require change. This has proven to be short-sighted.
>
>Thanks,
>Raftus (:))
>
>
>************************************
>David Raftus
>Imedia Semiconductor
>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
>Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
>
>david.raftus@imedia.com
>613.592.1052  ext 222
>************************************
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Minnie Lu [mailto:milu@cisco.com]
>Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 3:04 PM
>To: Raftus, David
>Cc: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
>(E-mail); milu@cisco.com
>Subject: Re: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
>
>Hi, Raftus,
>
>     There is conflict between RFI spec. and the following MIB object range
>
>   docsIfQosProfMaxTransmitBurst OBJECT-TYPE
>          SYNTAX      Integer32 (0..1522)  <===========
>          MAX-ACCESS  read-create
>          STATUS      current
>          DESCRIPTION
>              "The maximum number of bytes that may be requested for a
>               single upstream transmission. A value of zero means there
>               is no limit. Note: This value does not include any
>               physical layer overhead.
>               MUST NOT be changed while this row is active."
>          REFERENCE
>              "Document [25] from References, Appendix C.1.1.4."
>          DEFVAL { 0 }
>          ::= { docsIfQosProfileEntry 9 }
>
>In RFIv1.1 (C1.1.4.6) and RFIv2.0 (C1.1.4.6), it defined 2 bytes and does
>not have upper limit to 1522.    This conflict exists in v4 version which
>is in use by OSSI spec. (1.1, and 2.0).
>
>   Any reason for MIB to have such upper limit ? If not, would you please
>correct this error in the MIB file ?
>
>
>
>Thanks a lot !
>Minnie
>
>
>At 12:55 PM 10/18/2002 -0700, Raftus, David wrote:
>
> >Hi everyone,
> >
> >
> >
> >Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC
> >and compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received
> >since v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after
> >appropriate massaging.
> >
> >
> >
> >Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At
> >that time an official version of the draft will be prepared for
submission
> >to the IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.
> >
> >
> >
> >Thanks very much,
> >
> >Dave
> >
> >
> >
> >************************************
> >
> >David Raftus
> >
> >Imedia Semiconductor
> >
> >340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
> >
> >Ottawa Canada
> >
> >david.raftus@imedia.com613.592.1052************************************
> >58147a.jpg581498.jpg
> >
> >
> >
> >
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Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5
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All,

Since I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have channel utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some comments.

Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did raise some interesting points about the side-effects of making a very simple snapshot view of channel utilization available via the MIB.  If we can come up with an alternative that still meets the operators' needs and does not have these side-effects, then I think it would not be a difficult sell.

Just thinking out-loud here....

If running counters were used, I think the following would be all that is absolutely necessary for calculating upstream utilization.

1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical channel
2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical channel

I don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is available now.

In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation is clear: query both objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take the ratio of the two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over the interval.

In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the calculation is not as straightforward.  Assuming that counter 1 includes minislots allocated to the null SID (while the logical channel is idle), then the operator could calculate % utilization for each logical channel, and sum them to get the total utilization for the physical channel. There is some ambiguity in the case where initial maintenance slots are shared between the logical channels, but that exists regardless of how utilization is reported, and even if not resolved would probably have a negligible impact on the end result.

The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to associate the logical channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting these counters in aggregate for the physical channel.


So rather than a single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the utilization, the operator would (in general) have to identify the ifIndex of the physical channel in question, query the ifStackTable to identify all logical channels associated with that physical channel, then query the two counters on each logical channel at the start and end of the interval and do the math above.  It certainly isn't as straightforward as a single MIB object for utilization percentage, but also doesn't have the side-effects that Tom brought up.

A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization table as is, and add the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable.  Since the CMTS probably has to maintain these counters anyway in order to report utilization, maybe this would not add much overhead.  Something similar would have to be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as well.

Thoughts?

-Greg






-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM
To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; Raftus, David
Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
2 5


Hi Tom,

Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially though
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel utilization
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured their
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be seen as
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already have
expressed their desires.

Please see individual responses inline.

Regards,
Dave



Dave, 

Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email. 

Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the basic
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a physical
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing how
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements. 

We also like the idea of "displaying one line per physical channel summary
of utilization stats in displays", but the manner in which the data is
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. We
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can be
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the data is
stored or sampled. 

There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we wanted
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in the
draft. 

Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can occur as
a result of that approach. 

1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS.
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact that
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In that
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and destroys
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that were
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers are
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without checking. 

<dave>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management problem.
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be an
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table could
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the others.
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when the
most recent interval started, or when it would end.  
<end dave>


2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) and
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of time.
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to support
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the low-resolution
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas the
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst)
measurements.
 
<dave>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from doing
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup sampling
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. The
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical channel
utilization.
<end dave>

3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling interval
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short sampling
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic (with a
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of the
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals and
"averaging the averages". However, to do this averaging of averages, the
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the sampling
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise,  it
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. Since
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the CMTS
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) is
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation. 

<dave>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick fairly
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from gathering
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want through
other methods available to them.
<end dave>

Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had
originally intended. 

We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified
approach should be based on counters. 

All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw bandwidth,
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be sampled
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their desired
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at the
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end of
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide by
the window size to create the average. As a result of this approach,
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with one
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term and
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long windows
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach provides
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. Using
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate the
needs of more MSOs. 

Thanks,
Tom 


Tom Cloonan
CTO- Broadband Division
ARRIS

Phone:  630-281-3050
Fax:       630-955-9870
e-mail:    tom.cloonan@arrisi.com

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


 -----Original Message-----
From: 	Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com [mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] 
Sent:	Friday, October 25, 2002 7:04 PM
To:	Raftus, David
Cc:	Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
Subject:	[ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
25

 << Message:  >>  << File: image001.png >>  << File: image002.jpg >> 
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From: "Margo Dolas" <mdolas@broadcom.com>
To: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-20@cablelabs.com>,
        "Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail)" <docsis-oss@cablelabs.com>,
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Date: Mon, 28 Oct 2002 15:49:16 -0500
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Subject: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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Dave,

I think that you misunderstood what I meant by granted slots.  Granted slots
are unicast slots granted to a real CM on the plant; grants assigned to the
null SID and contention regions are not considered granted slots.

I would also argue that UGS grants from the CMTS increase the utilization
figure
whether or not the channel is idle.  This is because whether the CM uses it
or not,
it is still bandwidth that the CMTS cannot grant to another CM.

However, in order to measure the utilization of contention regions, the
actual
upstream burst needs to be measured.

I think that the text needs to be updated to adequately cover both of these
cases.
I suggest the following clarification -

              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots utilized on the physical channel,
              regardless of burst type.  For contention regions, utilized
              minislots are those in which the CMTS received an upstream
              burst from any CM on the physical channel.  For all other
              regions, utilized minislots are those in which the CMTS
              granted bandwidth to any unicast SID on the physical channel.

If the vendor community chooses to go along with Greg's suggestion, I
believe
that this distinction needs to be maintained.

Regards,
Margo


-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Monday, 28 October, 2002 9:32 AM
To: 'Margo Dolas'; Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis
Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi Margo,

Thanks for your comments. However, I don't think your suggestion would
provide an actual real-world view of utilization as required by the MSOs.
Since the scheduler cannot have any gaps in the upstream, your model would
always provide close to 100% utilization, which is deceptive.  Also, UGS
grants from the CMTS when the channel is idle may increase the utilization
figure.

I do think that the actual upstream bursts received from the CM provide a
truer picture of utilization.

Thanks,
Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: Margo Dolas [mailto:mdolas@broadcom.com]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:46 PM
To: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25

Dave,

I have one minor comment on the docsIfCmtsChannelUtilization object.

For granted slots, once the CMTS has made the grant, that bandwidth is
"utilized" regardless of whether the CM actually puts a burst in that slot
or not.  I think that the wording in the mib spec needs to be modified so
that any grant counts as "utilized".

How about the following text change?
Replace -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS received an
              upstream burst from any CM on the physical channel, regardless
              of burst type.

With -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS granted bandwidth
to
              any CM on the physical channel, regardless of burst type.

Regards,
Margo


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com [mailto:owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com]On
Behalf Of Raftus, David
Sent: Friday, 18 October, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,

Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.

Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.

Thanks very much,
Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************





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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP over Cable Data Network Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Multimedia Terminal Adapter (MTA) Management 
                          Information Base for PacketCable 1.0 compliant devices
	Author(s)	: M. Osman, E. Nechamkin
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ipcdn-pktc-mtamib-00.txt
	Pages		: 30
	Date		: 2002-10-28
	
This memo is a draft document of the initial version of the 
document. This document does not have any predecessors.  
This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB) 
for use with network management protocols in the Internet community. 
In particular, it defines a basic set of managed objects for SNMP-
based management of PacketCable 1.0 compliant Media Terminal 
Adapter(MTA) devices.  
This memo specifies a MIB module in a manner that is compliant to 
the SNMP SMIv2 [5][6][7]. The set of objects are consistent with the 
SNMP framework and existing SNMP standards.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipcdn-pktc-mtamib-00.txt

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP over Cable Data Network Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Network Control Signaling (NCS) Signaling MIB for 
                          PacketCable/IPCablecom MTAs
	Author(s)	: C. Schell et al.
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ipcdn-pktc-signaling-00.txt
	Pages		: 49
	Date		: 2002-10-28
	
This memo defines the Signaling Management Information Base (MIB)  
for use with network management protocols in the Internet community. 
In particular, it provides a common data and format representation  
for PacketCable/IPCablecom compliant Multimedia Terminal Adapter  
devices.  
This memo specifies a MIB module in a manner that is compliant to  
the SNMP SMIv2 [5][6][7].  The set of objects are consistent with  
the SNMP framework and existing SNMP standards.

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From mailnull@www1.ietf.org  Tue Oct 29 15:30:55 2002
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Thread-Topic: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25
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From: "Greg White" <g.white@CableLabs.com>
To: "Margo Dolas" <mdolas@broadcom.com>,
        "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List" <docsis-20@CableLabs.com>,
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I agree with Margo's clarification.

-Greg


-----Original Message-----
From: Margo Dolas [mailto:mdolas@broadcom.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 1:49 PM
To: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Dave,

I think that you misunderstood what I meant by granted slots.  Granted slots
are unicast slots granted to a real CM on the plant; grants assigned to the
null SID and contention regions are not considered granted slots.

I would also argue that UGS grants from the CMTS increase the utilization
figure
whether or not the channel is idle.  This is because whether the CM uses it
or not,
it is still bandwidth that the CMTS cannot grant to another CM.

However, in order to measure the utilization of contention regions, the
actual
upstream burst needs to be measured.

I think that the text needs to be updated to adequately cover both of these
cases.
I suggest the following clarification -

              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots utilized on the physical channel,
              regardless of burst type.  For contention regions, utilized
              minislots are those in which the CMTS received an upstream
              burst from any CM on the physical channel.  For all other
              regions, utilized minislots are those in which the CMTS
              granted bandwidth to any unicast SID on the physical channel.

If the vendor community chooses to go along with Greg's suggestion, I
believe
that this distinction needs to be maintained.

Regards,
Margo


-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Monday, 28 October, 2002 9:32 AM
To: 'Margo Dolas'; Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis
Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi Margo,

Thanks for your comments. However, I don't think your suggestion would
provide an actual real-world view of utilization as required by the MSOs.
Since the scheduler cannot have any gaps in the upstream, your model would
always provide close to 100% utilization, which is deceptive.  Also, UGS
grants from the CMTS when the channel is idle may increase the utilization
figure.

I do think that the actual upstream bursts received from the CM provide a
truer picture of utilization.

Thanks,
Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************


-----Original Message-----
From: Margo Dolas [mailto:mdolas@broadcom.com]
Sent: Friday, October 25, 2002 2:46 PM
To: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); Ipcdn List (E-mail)
Subject: RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25

Dave,

I have one minor comment on the docsIfCmtsChannelUtilization object.

For granted slots, once the CMTS has made the grant, that bandwidth is
"utilized" regardless of whether the CM actually puts a burst in that slot
or not.  I think that the wording in the mib spec needs to be modified so
that any grant counts as "utilized".

How about the following text change?
Replace -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS received an
              upstream burst from any CM on the physical channel, regardless
              of burst type.

With -
              Upstream Channel Utilization Index:
              The upstream channel utilization index is expressed as a
              percentage of minislots for which the CMTS granted bandwidth
to
              any CM on the physical channel, regardless of burst type.

Regards,
Margo


-----Original Message-----
From: owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com [mailto:owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com]On
Behalf Of Raftus, David
Sent: Friday, 18 October, 2002 3:55 PM
To: Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector (E-mail); Ipcdn List
(E-mail)
Cc: Raftus, David
Subject: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 25


Hi everyone,

Please find attached a draft of the Docsis RF Interface mib v5. The TOC and
compliance statements have not been updated, but suggestions received since
v4 regarding new mib objects have been incorporated after appropriate
massaging.

Comments are welcome on this draft until 5pm EST Friday October 25. At that
time an official version of the draft will be prepared for submission to the
IETF last call process, leading to RFC designation.

Thanks very much,
Dave

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************




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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP over Cable Data Network Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Management Event MIB for PacketCable/IPCablecom MTAs
	Author(s)	: W. De Ketelaere, E. Nechamkin
	Filename	: draft-ietf-ipcdn-pktc-eventmess-00.txt
	Pages		: 29
	Date		: 2002-10-29
	
This memo defines a portion of the Management Information Base (MIB)  
for use with network management protocols in the Internet community. 
In particular, it provides a common data and format definition for  
events and specifies by what means events are transmitted for  
PacketCable/IPCablecom compliant Multimedia Terminal Adapter devices. 
This memo specifies a MIB module in a manner that is compliant to the 
SNMP SMIv2 [5][6][7].  The set of objects are consistent with the 
SNMP framework and existing SNMP standards.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipcdn-pktc-eventmess-00.txt

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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'" <Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM>,
        Greg White
	 <g.white@CableLabs.com>
Cc: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
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Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2
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Hi,
 
Ok, 4 new 64 bit counters to be added. The most appropriate place would seem
to be the docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable - one instance of this table exists for
each CM connected to the CMTS, and is the defacto placeholder for CM related
counters.
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted
Counter64
64bit counter for raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per CM)
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed
Counter64
64bit counter for used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per CM)
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxTotalBits
Counter64
64bit counter for total bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie
per CM)
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxDataBits
Counter64
64bit counter for actual data bits transmitted downstream per physical
channel (ie per CM)
 
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:30 PM
To: Greg White
Cc: Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List;
Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5
 

We are agreeable with your suggestion. 
And we can compromise for the utilization table if still desired by the
MSOs. 

Regards, 
Greg & Tom C. 





 
"Greg White" <g.white@CableLabs.com> 
10/28/02 01:05 PM 
        
        To:        "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
<Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com> 
        cc:        "DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List" <docsis-20@CableLabs.com>,
"DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List" <docsis-oss@CableLabs.com>,
"Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM" <Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com>, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)"
<ipcdn@ietf.org>, "Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)" <rwoundy@broadband.att.com> 
        Subject:        RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end
Friday Oct 2 5



All,

Since I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have
channel utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some comments.

Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did raise some interesting
points about the side-effects of making a very simple snapshot view of
channel utilization available via the MIB.  If we can come up with an
alternative that still meets the operators' needs and does not have these
side-effects, then I think it would not be a difficult sell.

Just thinking out-loud here....

If running counters were used, I think the following would be all that is
absolutely necessary for calculating upstream utilization.

1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical channel
2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical channel

I don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is available
now.

In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation is clear: query
both objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take the ratio
of the two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over the
interval.

In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the calculation is not as
straightforward.  Assuming that counter 1 includes minislots allocated to
the null SID (while the logical channel is idle), then the operator could
calculate % utilization for each logical channel, and sum them to get the
total utilization for the physical channel. There is some ambiguity in the
case where initial maintenance slots are shared between the logical
channels, but that exists regardless of how utilization is reported, and
even if not resolved would probably have a negligible impact on the end
result.

The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to associate the logical
channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting these counters in
aggregate for the physical channel.


So rather than a single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the
utilization, the operator would (in general) have to identify the ifIndex of
the physical channel in question, query the ifStackTable to identify all
logical channels associated with that physical channel, then query the two
counters on each logical channel at the start and end of the interval and do
the math above.  It certainly isn't as straightforward as a single MIB
object for utilization percentage, but also doesn't have the side-effects
that Tom brought up.

A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization table as is, and add
the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable.  Since the CMTS
probably has to maintain these counters anyway in order to report
utilization, maybe this would not add much overhead.  Something similar
would have to be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as well.

Thoughts?

-Greg






-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM
To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; Raftus, David
Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
2 5


Hi Tom,

Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially though
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel utilization
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured their
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be seen as
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already have
expressed their desires.

Please see individual responses inline.

Regards,
Dave



Dave, 

Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email. 

Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the basic
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a physical
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing how
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements. 

We also like the idea of "displaying one line per physical channel summary
of utilization stats in displays", but the manner in which the data is
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. We
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can be
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the data is
stored or sampled. 

There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we wanted
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in the
draft. 

Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can occur as
a result of that approach. 

1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS.
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact that
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In that
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and destroys
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that were
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers are
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without checking. 

<dave>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management problem.
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be an
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table could
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the others.
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when the
most recent interval started, or when it would end.  
<end dave>


2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) and
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of time.
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to support
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the low-resolution
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas the
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst) 
measurements.

<dave>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from doing
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup sampling
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. The
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical channel
utilization.
<end dave>

3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling interval
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short sampling
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic (with a
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of the
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals and
"averaging the averages". However, to do this averaging of averages, the
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the sampling
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise,  it
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. Since
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the CMTS
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) is
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation. 

<dave>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick fairly
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from gathering
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want through
other methods available to them.
<end dave>

Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had
originally intended. 

We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified
approach should be based on counters. 

All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw bandwidth,
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be sampled
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their desired
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at the
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end of
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide by
the window size to create the average. As a result of this approach,
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with one
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term and
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long windows
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach provides
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. Using
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate the
needs of more MSOs. 

Thanks,
Tom 


Tom Cloonan
CTO- Broadband Division
ARRIS

Phone:  630-281-3050
Fax:       630-955-9870
e-mail:    tom.cloonan@arrisi.com

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


-----Original Message-----
From:                  Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com
[mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] 
Sent:                 Friday, October 25, 2002 7:04 PM
To:                 Raftus, David
Cc:                 Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss
Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
Subject:                 [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end
Friday Oct
25

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New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
total bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie per =
CM)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>d=
ocsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxDataBits<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>C=
ounter64<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
actual data bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie per =
CM)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:navy'>Dave</span></font><span
class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>***********************************=
*<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>David =
Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, =
Suite 202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>K2K =
3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<=
span
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>613.592.1052<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>ext =
222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>************************=
************<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></span></font></i><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p=
></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><img
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C280E4.CC3A0B10"
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v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1025"><![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dnavy><span =
style=3D'color:navy;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font><=
/p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle16><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->=
<span
class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM
[mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October =
30, 2002
12:30 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Greg White<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Raftus, David; =
DOCSIS 2.0
Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich =
Woundy
(Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ipcdn] RE: =
rf mib
draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>We are agreeable with your
suggestion.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>And we can compromise for =
the utilization
table if still desired by the MSOs.</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Regards,</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Greg &amp; Tom =
C.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
<br>
<br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<table border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" =
style=3D'width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:
 1.5pt'>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><font =
size=3D3
  color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;
  mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack =
face=3Dsans-serif><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;font-weight:=
bold'>&quot;Greg
  White&quot; &lt;g.white@CableLabs.com&gt;</span></font></b><font =
color=3Dblack><span
  style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
  mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  <p><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
  font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>10/28/02 01:05 =
PM</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
  =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;
  &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'><br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;
  &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Raftus, David&quot;
  &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;, =
&lt;Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com&gt;</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;
  &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo =
List&quot;
  &lt;docsis-20@CableLabs.com&gt;, &quot;DOCSIS OSS Majordomo =
List&quot;
  &lt;docsis-oss@CableLabs.com&gt;, &quot;Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM&quot;
  &lt;Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com&gt;, &quot;Ipcdn List (E-mail)&quot; =
&lt;ipcdn@ietf.org&gt;,
  &quot;Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)&quot; =
&lt;rwoundy@broadband.att.com&gt;</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;
  &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib =
draft v5 -
  comment period end Friday Oct 2 5</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
  =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>All,<br>
<br>
Since I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have =
channel
utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some comments.<br>
<br>
Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did raise some interesting =
points
about the side-effects of making a very simple snapshot view of channel
utilization available via the MIB. &nbsp;If we can come up with an =
alternative
that still meets the operators' needs and does not have these =
side-effects,
then I think it would not be a difficult sell.<br>
<br>
Just thinking out-loud here....<br>
<br>
If running counters were used, I think the following would be all that =
is
absolutely necessary for calculating upstream utilization.<br>
<br>
1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical channel<br>
2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical channel<br>
<br>
I don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is =
available
now.<br>
<br>
In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation is clear: =
query both
objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take the ratio =
of the
two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over the =
interval.<br>
<br>
In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the calculation is not =
as
straightforward. &nbsp;Assuming that counter 1 includes minislots =
allocated to
the null SID (while the logical channel is idle), then the operator =
could
calculate % utilization for each logical channel, and sum them to get =
the total
utilization for the physical channel. There is some ambiguity in the =
case where
initial maintenance slots are shared between the logical channels, but =
that
exists regardless of how utilization is reported, and even if not =
resolved
would probably have a negligible impact on the end result.<br>
<br>
The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to associate the =
logical
channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting these counters in
aggregate for the physical channel.<br>
<br>
<br>
So rather than a single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the =
utilization,
the operator would (in general) have to identify the ifIndex of the =
physical
channel in question, query the ifStackTable to identify all logical =
channels
associated with that physical channel, then query the two counters on =
each
logical channel at the start and end of the interval and do the math =
above.
&nbsp;It certainly isn't as straightforward as a single MIB object for
utilization percentage, but also doesn't have the side-effects that Tom =
brought
up.<br>
<br>
A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization table as is, =
and add
the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable. &nbsp;Since =
the CMTS
probably has to maintain these counters anyway in order to report =
utilization,
maybe this would not add much overhead. &nbsp;Something similar would =
have to
be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as well.<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
-Greg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]<br>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM<br>
To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; Raftus, David<br>
Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss =
Reflector<br>
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);<br>
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)<br>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday =
Oct<br>
2 5<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Tom,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially =
though<br>
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel =
utilization<br>
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured =
their<br>
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be =
seen as<br>
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already =
have<br>
expressed their desires.<br>
<br>
Please see individual responses inline.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dave, <br>
<br>
Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email. <br>
<br>
Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the =
basic<br>
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a =
physical<br>
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing =
how<br>
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical<br>
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we<br>
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements. <br>
<br>
We also like the idea of &quot;displaying one line per physical channel =
summary<br>
of utilization stats in displays&quot;, but the manner in which the =
data is<br>
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. =
We<br>
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can =
be<br>
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the =
data is<br>
stored or sampled. <br>
<br>
There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we =
wanted<br>
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in =
the<br>
draft. <br>
<br>
Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement =
that<br>
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can =
occur as<br>
a result of that approach. <br>
<br>
1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the =
CMTS.<br>
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact =
that<br>
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing =
the<br>
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In =
that<br>
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and =
destroys<br>
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that =
were<br>
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers =
are<br>
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without =
checking. <br>
<br>
&lt;dave&gt;<br>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management =
problem.<br>
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be =
an<br>
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table =
could<br>
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the =
others.<br>
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when =
the<br>
most recent interval started, or when it would end. &nbsp;<br>
&lt;end dave&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that =
is<br>
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) =
and<br>
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of =
time.<br>
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to =
support<br>
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that =
display<br>
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the =
low-resolution<br>
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements =
whereas the<br>
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term =
(burst)</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>measurements.<br>
<br>
&lt;dave&gt;<br>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from =
doing<br>
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup =
sampling<br>
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. =
The<br>
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their<br>
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical =
channel<br>
utilization.<br>
&lt;end dave&gt;<br>
<br>
3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling =
interval<br>
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short =
sampling<br>
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic =
(with a<br>
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of =
the<br>
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals =
and<br>
&quot;averaging the averages&quot;. However, to do this averaging of =
averages,
the<br>
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the =
sampling<br>
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise, =
&nbsp;it<br>
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. =
Since<br>
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the =
CMTS<br>
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) =
is<br>
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation. <br>
<br>
&lt;dave&gt;<br>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick =
fairly<br>
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from =
gathering<br>
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want =
through<br>
other methods available to them.<br>
&lt;end dave&gt;<br>
<br>
Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe =
that<br>
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you =
had<br>
originally intended. <br>
<br>
We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with =
the<br>
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three =
problems<br>
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the =
modified<br>
approach should be based on counters. <br>
<br>
All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw =
bandwidth,<br>
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be =
sampled<br>
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their =
desired<br>
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at =
the<br>
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end =
of<br>
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide =
by<br>
the window size to create the average. As a result of this =
approach,<br>
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with =
one<br>
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term =
and<br>
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long =
windows<br>
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach =
provides<br>
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. =
Using<br>
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate =
the<br>
needs of more MSOs. <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Tom <br>
<br>
<br>
Tom Cloonan<br>
CTO- Broadband Division<br>
ARRIS<br>
<br>
Phone: &nbsp;630-281-3050<br>
Fax: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 630-955-9870<br>
e-mail: &nbsp; &nbsp;tom.cloonan@arrisi.com<br>
<br>
************************************<br>
David Raftus<br>
Imedia Semiconductor<br>
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202<br>
Ottawa Canada &nbsp;K2K 3A2<br>
<br>
david.raftus@imedia.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
613.592.1052 &nbsp;ext 222<br>
************************************ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;
&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com [mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] <br>
Sent: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, =
October
25, 2002 7:04 PM<br>
To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Raftus, =
David<br>
Cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Raftus, =
David;
Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector<br>
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);<br>
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com<br>
Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
[ipcdn] RE: rf
mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct<br>
25<br>
<br>
&lt;&lt; Message: &nbsp;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;&lt;&lt; File: image001.png =
&gt;&gt;
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style=3D'mso-special-character:
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style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
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From: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>
To: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'"
	 <Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM>,
        "'Greg White'" <g.white@CableLabs.com>
Cc: "'DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List'" <docsis-20@CableLabs.com>,
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	 <rwoundy@broadband.att.com>,
        "'Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM'"
	 <Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2
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A revision for this proposal. It was not my intention to require downstream
counts per attached CM - merely per downstream physical channel. It is
inappropriate to place these downstream counts in the downstreamChannelTable
- they are not maintained by the CM, and there is no precedent for counters
in this table. If these downstream counts are required, a new table
implemented only at the CMTS and indexed by physical channel would be
required.
 
Therefore, only these 2 counters added to the docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable:
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted
Counter64
64bit counter for raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per CM)
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed
Counter64
64bit counter for used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per CM)
 
 
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David 
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:52 PM
To: 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Greg White
Cc: Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List;
Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5
 
Hi,
 
Ok, 4 new 64 bit counters to be added. The most appropriate place would seem
to be the docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable - one instance of this table exists for
each CM connected to the CMTS, and is the defacto placeholder for CM related
counters.
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted
Counter64
64bit counter for raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per CM)
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed
Counter64
64bit counter for used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per CM)
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxTotalBits
Counter64
64bit counter for total bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie
per CM)
 
docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxDataBits
Counter64
64bit counter for actual data bits transmitted downstream per physical
channel (ie per CM)
 
Dave
 
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
 
david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               

 
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:30 PM
To: Greg White
Cc: Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List;
Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5
 

We are agreeable with your suggestion. 
And we can compromise for the utilization table if still desired by the
MSOs. 

Regards, 
Greg & Tom C. 





 
"Greg White" <g.white@CableLabs.com> 
10/28/02 01:05 PM 
        
        To:        "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
<Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com> 
        cc:        "DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List" <docsis-20@CableLabs.com>,
"DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List" <docsis-oss@CableLabs.com>,
"Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM" <Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com>, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)"
<ipcdn@ietf.org>, "Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)" <rwoundy@broadband.att.com> 
        Subject:        RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end
Friday Oct 2 5



All,

Since I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have
channel utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some comments.

Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did raise some interesting
points about the side-effects of making a very simple snapshot view of
channel utilization available via the MIB.  If we can come up with an
alternative that still meets the operators' needs and does not have these
side-effects, then I think it would not be a difficult sell.

Just thinking out-loud here....

If running counters were used, I think the following would be all that is
absolutely necessary for calculating upstream utilization.

1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical channel
2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical channel

I don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is available
now.

In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation is clear: query
both objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take the ratio
of the two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over the
interval.

In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the calculation is not as
straightforward.  Assuming that counter 1 includes minislots allocated to
the null SID (while the logical channel is idle), then the operator could
calculate % utilization for each logical channel, and sum them to get the
total utilization for the physical channel. There is some ambiguity in the
case where initial maintenance slots are shared between the logical
channels, but that exists regardless of how utilization is reported, and
even if not resolved would probably have a negligible impact on the end
result.

The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to associate the logical
channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting these counters in
aggregate for the physical channel.


So rather than a single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the
utilization, the operator would (in general) have to identify the ifIndex of
the physical channel in question, query the ifStackTable to identify all
logical channels associated with that physical channel, then query the two
counters on each logical channel at the start and end of the interval and do
the math above.  It certainly isn't as straightforward as a single MIB
object for utilization percentage, but also doesn't have the side-effects
that Tom brought up.

A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization table as is, and add
the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable.  Since the CMTS
probably has to maintain these counters anyway in order to report
utilization, maybe this would not add much overhead.  Something similar
would have to be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as well.

Thoughts?

-Greg






-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM
To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; Raftus, David
Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
2 5


Hi Tom,

Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially though
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel utilization
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured their
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be seen as
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already have
expressed their desires.

Please see individual responses inline.

Regards,
Dave



Dave, 

Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email. 

Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the basic
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a physical
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing how
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements. 

We also like the idea of "displaying one line per physical channel summary
of utilization stats in displays", but the manner in which the data is
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. We
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can be
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the data is
stored or sampled. 

There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we wanted
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in the
draft. 

Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can occur as
a result of that approach. 

1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS.
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact that
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In that
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and destroys
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that were
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers are
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without checking. 

<dave>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management problem.
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be an
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table could
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the others.
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when the
most recent interval started, or when it would end.  
<end dave>


2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) and
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of time.
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to support
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the low-resolution
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas the
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst) 
measurements.

<dave>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from doing
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup sampling
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. The
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical channel
utilization.
<end dave>

3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling interval
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short sampling
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic (with a
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of the
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals and
"averaging the averages". However, to do this averaging of averages, the
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the sampling
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise,  it
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. Since
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the CMTS
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) is
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation. 

<dave>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick fairly
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from gathering
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want through
other methods available to them.
<end dave>

Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had
originally intended. 

We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified
approach should be based on counters. 

All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw bandwidth,
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be sampled
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their desired
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at the
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end of
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide by
the window size to create the average. As a result of this approach,
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with one
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term and
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long windows
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach provides
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. Using
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate the
needs of more MSOs. 

Thanks,
Tom 


Tom Cloonan
CTO- Broadband Division
ARRIS

Phone:  630-281-3050
Fax:       630-955-9870
e-mail:    tom.cloonan@arrisi.com

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


-----Original Message-----
From:                  Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com
[mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] 
Sent:                 Friday, October 25, 2002 7:04 PM
To:                 Raftus, David
Cc:                 Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss
Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
Subject:                 [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end
Friday Oct
25

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face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'>A revision for this proposal. It was not my intention to require
downstream counts per attached CM - merely per downstream physical =
channel. It
is inappropriate to place these downstream counts in the =
downstreamChannelTable
- they are not maintained by the CM, and there is no precedent for =
counters in
this table. If these downstream counts are required, a new table =
implemented
only at the CMTS and indexed by physical channel would be =
required.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
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style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
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docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable:<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

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New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#993366;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#993366'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:"Courier =
New";color:#993366;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>d=
ocsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>C=
ounter64<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#993366"
face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:
Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle18><font=20
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>***********************************=
*<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>David =
Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, =
Suite 202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>K2K =
3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<=
span
style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>613.592.1052<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span>ext =
222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i style=3D'mso-bidi-font-style:normal'><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:blue;font-style:italic'>************************=
************<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></span></font></i><font =
size=3D2
color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366'><span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#993366;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></=
o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3D"#993366" face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:#993366'><img
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C280EA.1C0C0E90"
v:src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C280EA.1C0C0E90" v:shapes=3D"_x0000_Mail" =
width=3D0
height=3D0 class=3Dshape =
style=3D'display:none;width:0;height:0'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype =

 id=3D"_x0000_t75" coordsize=3D"21600,21600" o:spt=3D"75" =
o:preferrelative=3D"t"=20
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 <v:stroke joinstyle=3D"miter"/>
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  <v:f eqn=3D"if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/>
  <v:f eqn=3D"sum @0 1 0"/>
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  <v:f eqn=3D"prod @2 1 2"/>
  <v:f eqn=3D"prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/>
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 <v:path o:extrusionok=3D"f" gradientshapeok=3D"t" =
o:connecttype=3D"rect"/>
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o:title=3D"imedia"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img width=3D154 height=3D46
src=3D"cid:image002.jpg@01C280EA.1C0C0E90" =
v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1026"><![endif]></span></font><font
color=3D"#993366"><span =
style=3D'color:#993366;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></fon=
t></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle18><font=20
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->=
<span
class=3DEmailStyle18><font size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" =
face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Raftus, David <br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Thursday, October =
31, 2002
1:52 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> =
'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Greg
White<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Raftus, David; =
DOCSIS 2.0
Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich =
Woundy
(Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ipcdn] RE: =
rf mib
draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5</span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:
12.0pt'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>H=
i,<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>O=
k, 4 new
64 bit counters to be added. The most appropriate place would seem to =
be the
docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable - one instance of this table exists for each CM
connected to the CMTS, and is the defacto placeholder for CM related =
counters.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>d=
ocsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted<o:p></o:p></span></font></span=
></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>C=
ounter64<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>d=
ocsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>C=
ounter64<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier New";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>d=
ocsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxTotalBits<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></=
p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>C=
ounter64<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
total bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie per =
CM)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>d=
ocsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxDataBits<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p=
>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>C=
ounter64<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:navy'>64bit =
counter for
actual data bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie per =
CM)</span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier New";color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:
"Courier =
New";color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Courier =
New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:navy'>Dave</span></font><span
class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><o:p></o:p></span></=
font></span></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 =
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle17><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![end=
if]--><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:blue'>***********************************=
*<o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'>David Raftus<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'>Imedia =
Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite =
202<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'>Ottawa Canada<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;
</span>K2K 3A2<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'>david.raftus@imedia.com<span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'>613.592.1052<span style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;
</span>ext 222<o:p></o:p></span></font></i></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><i><font size=3D2 color=3Dblue face=3DArial><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial;co=
lor:blue;
font-style:italic'>************************************<span
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </span></span></font></i><font =
size=3D2
color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:navy'><span style=3D"mso-spacerun:
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;</span></span></font><font
size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:=
p></span></font></p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dnavy face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:navy'><img
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C280EA.1C0C0E90"
v:src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C280EA.1C0C0E90" v:shapes=3D"_x0000_Mail" =
width=3D0
height=3D0 class=3Dshape =
style=3D'display:none;width:0;height:0;display:none;
height:0in;width:0in'><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id=3D"_x0000_i1025" =
type=3D"#_x0000_t75"=20
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 <v:imagedata src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C280EA.1C0C0E90" =
o:title=3D"imedia"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><img width=3D154 height=3D46
src=3D"cid:image003.jpg@01C280EA.1C0C0E90" =
v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1025"><![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle17><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]-->=
<span
class=3DEmailStyle17><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=


<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DTahoma><span =
style=3D'font-size:
10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original Message-----<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> =
Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM
[mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, October =
30, 2002
12:30 PM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Greg White<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Cc:</span></b> Raftus, David; =
DOCSIS 2.0
Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich =
Woundy (Work)
(E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM<br>
<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> RE: [ipcdn] RE: =
rf mib
draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
Roman"><span
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]></span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>We are agreeable with your =
suggestion.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>And we can compromise for the =
utilization table
if still desired by the MSOs.</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Regards,</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
font-family:Arial;color:black'>Greg &amp; Tom C.</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
<br>
<br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

<table border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" =
style=3D'width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:
 1.5pt;mso-padding-alt:0pt 0pt 0pt 0pt'>
 <tr>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><font =
size=3D3
  color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;
  mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack =
face=3DArial><span
  =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black;font-weight:bold'=
>&quot;Greg
  White&quot; &lt;g.white@CableLabs.com&gt;</span></font></b><font =
color=3Dblack><span
  style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
  mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  <p><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
  font-family:Arial;color:black'>10/28/02 01:05 PM</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
  =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
</p>
  </td>
  <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
  <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
  style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;
  &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black'><br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; To: =
&nbsp;
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;Raftus, David&quot;
  &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;, =
&lt;Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com&gt;</span></font><font
  color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: =
&nbsp;
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&quot;DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List&quot;
  &lt;docsis-20@CableLabs.com&gt;, &quot;DOCSIS OSS Majordomo =
List&quot;
  &lt;docsis-oss@CableLabs.com&gt;, &quot;Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM&quot;
  &lt;Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com&gt;, &quot;Ipcdn List (E-mail)&quot;
  &lt;ipcdn@ietf.org&gt;, &quot;Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)&quot;
  &lt;rwoundy@broadband.att.com&gt;</span></font><font =
color=3Dblack><span
  style=3D'color:black'> <br>
  </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:
  7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
Subject:
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment =
period
  end Friday Oct 2 5</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;
  mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
  </td>
 </tr>
</table>

<p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-bottom:12.0pt'><font size=3D3 =
color=3Dblack
face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
<br>
<br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>All,<br>
<br>
Since I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have =
channel
utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some comments.<br>
<br>
Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did raise some interesting =
points
about the side-effects of making a very simple snapshot view of channel
utilization available via the MIB. &nbsp;If we can come up with an =
alternative
that still meets the operators' needs and does not have these =
side-effects,
then I think it would not be a difficult sell.<br>
<br>
Just thinking out-loud here....<br>
<br>
If running counters were used, I think the following would be all that =
is
absolutely necessary for calculating upstream utilization.<br>
<br>
1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical channel<br>
2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical channel<br>
<br>
I don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is =
available
now.<br>
<br>
In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation is clear: =
query both
objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take the ratio =
of the
two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over the =
interval.<br>
<br>
In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the calculation is not =
as
straightforward. &nbsp;Assuming that counter 1 includes minislots =
allocated to
the null SID (while the logical channel is idle), then the operator =
could
calculate % utilization for each logical channel, and sum them to get =
the total
utilization for the physical channel. There is some ambiguity in the =
case where
initial maintenance slots are shared between the logical channels, but =
that
exists regardless of how utilization is reported, and even if not =
resolved
would probably have a negligible impact on the end result.<br>
<br>
The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to associate the =
logical
channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting these counters in
aggregate for the physical channel.<br>
<br>
<br>
So rather than a single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the =
utilization,
the operator would (in general) have to identify the ifIndex of the =
physical
channel in question, query the ifStackTable to identify all logical =
channels
associated with that physical channel, then query the two counters on =
each
logical channel at the start and end of the interval and do the math =
above.
&nbsp;It certainly isn't as straightforward as a single MIB object for
utilization percentage, but also doesn't have the side-effects that Tom =
brought
up.<br>
<br>
A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization table as is, =
and add
the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable. &nbsp;Since =
the CMTS
probably has to maintain these counters anyway in order to report =
utilization,
maybe this would not add much overhead. &nbsp;Something similar would =
have to
be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as well.<br>
<br>
Thoughts?<br>
<br>
-Greg<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]<br>
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM<br>
To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; Raftus, David<br>
Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss =
Reflector<br>
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);<br>
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)<br>
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday =
Oct<br>
2 5<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi Tom,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially =
though<br>
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel =
utilization<br>
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured =
their<br>
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be =
seen as<br>
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already =
have<br>
expressed their desires.<br>
<br>
Please see individual responses inline.<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Dave<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Dave, <br>
<br>
Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email. <br>
<br>
Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the =
basic<br>
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a =
physical<br>
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing =
how<br>
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical<br>
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we<br>
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements. <br>
<br>
We also like the idea of &quot;displaying one line per physical channel =
summary<br>
of utilization stats in displays&quot;, but the manner in which the =
data is<br>
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. =
We<br>
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can =
be<br>
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the =
data is<br>
stored or sampled. <br>
<br>
There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we =
wanted<br>
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in =
the<br>
draft. <br>
<br>
Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement =
that<br>
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can =
occur as<br>
a result of that approach. <br>
<br>
1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the =
CMTS.<br>
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact =
that<br>
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing =
the<br>
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In =
that<br>
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and =
destroys<br>
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that =
were<br>
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers =
are<br>
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without =
checking. <br>
<br>
&lt;dave&gt;<br>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management =
problem.<br>
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be =
an<br>
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table =
could<br>
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the =
others.<br>
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when =
the<br>
most recent interval started, or when it would end. &nbsp;<br>
&lt;end dave&gt;<br>
<br>
<br>
2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that =
is<br>
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) =
and<br>
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of =
time.<br>
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to =
support<br>
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that =
display<br>
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the =
low-resolution<br>
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements =
whereas the<br>
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term =
(burst)</span></font><font
color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
</span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3D"Courier New"><span
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Courier =
New";color:black'>measurements.<br>
<br>
&lt;dave&gt;<br>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from =
doing<br>
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup =
sampling<br>
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. =
The<br>
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their<br>
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical =
channel<br>
utilization.<br>
&lt;end dave&gt;<br>
<br>
3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling =
interval<br>
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short =
sampling<br>
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic =
(with a<br>
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of =
the<br>
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals =
and<br>
&quot;averaging the averages&quot;. However, to do this averaging of =
averages,
the<br>
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the =
sampling<br>
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise, =
&nbsp;it<br>
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. =
Since<br>
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the =
CMTS<br>
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) =
is<br>
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation. <br>
<br>
&lt;dave&gt;<br>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick =
fairly<br>
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from =
gathering<br>
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want =
through<br>
other methods available to them.<br>
&lt;end dave&gt;<br>
<br>
Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe =
that<br>
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you =
had<br>
originally intended. <br>
<br>
We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with =
the<br>
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three =
problems<br>
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the =
modified<br>
approach should be based on counters. <br>
<br>
All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw =
bandwidth,<br>
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be =
sampled<br>
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their =
desired<br>
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at =
the<br>
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end =
of<br>
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide =
by<br>
the window size to create the average. As a result of this =
approach,<br>
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with =
one<br>
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term =
and<br>
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long =
windows<br>
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach =
provides<br>
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. =
Using<br>
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate =
the<br>
needs of more MSOs. <br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Tom <br>
<br>
<br>
Tom Cloonan<br>
CTO- Broadband Division<br>
ARRIS<br>
<br>
Phone: &nbsp;630-281-3050<br>
Fax: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 630-955-9870<br>
e-mail: &nbsp; &nbsp;tom.cloonan@arrisi.com<br>
<br>
************************************<br>
David Raftus<br>
Imedia Semiconductor<br>
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202<br>
Ottawa Canada &nbsp;K2K 3A2<br>
<br>
david.raftus@imedia.com &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; <br>
613.592.1052 &nbsp;ext 222<br>
************************************ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;
&nbsp; <br>
<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;
&nbsp;Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com [mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] <br>
Sent: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, =
October
25, 2002 7:04 PM<br>
To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Raftus, =
David<br>
Cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Raftus, =
David;
Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector<br>
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);<br>
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com<br>
Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
[ipcdn] RE: rf
mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct<br>
25<br>
<br>
&lt;&lt; Message: &nbsp;&gt;&gt; &nbsp;&lt;&lt; File: image001.png =
&gt;&gt;
&nbsp;&lt;&lt; File: image002.jpg &gt;&gt; <br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:
line-break'>
<![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
<![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>

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Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5
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From: "Greg White" <g.white@CableLabs.com>
To: <Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM>
Cc: "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>,
        "DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List" <docsis-20@CableLabs.com>,
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Does anyone else have an opinion on this?

I will try to flesh out the proposal:

Leave the utilization table as is (with the clarification that Margo proposed IMO), and add the following objects:

docsIfUpChannelTotalMinislots OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX      Counter64
        MAX-ACCESS  read-only
        STATUS      current
        DESCRIPTION
            "Current count, from CMTS initialization, of minislots 
		defined for this upstream (logical) channel.  This count 
		includes all minislots, even those allocated to the NULL 
		SID for a 2.0 logical channel which is inactive.  For the
		CM this object is reported as 0."
        ::= { docsIfUpstreamChannelEntry 20 }

docsIfUpChannelUsedMinislots OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX      Counter64
        MAX-ACCESS  read-only
        STATUS      current
        DESCRIPTION
            "Current count, from CMTS initialization, of minislots 
		utilized on the upstream (logical) channel, regardless 
		of burst type.  For contention regions, utilized 
		minislots are those in which the CMTS received an 
		upstream burst from any CM on the upstream (logical) 
		channel.  For all other regions, utilized minislots are 
		those in which the CMTS granted bandwidth to any unicast 
		SID on the logical channel. For the CM this object is 
		reported as 0."
        ::= { docsIfUpstreamChannelEntry 21 }

docsIfDownChannelTotalBytes OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX      Counter64
        MAX-ACCESS  read-only
        STATUS      current
        DESCRIPTION
		"The total number of bytes in the DOCSIS Payload portion of 
		DOCSIS MPEG Packets (i.e. not including MPEG Header or 
		pointer_field, nor including any non-DOCSIS MPEG packets) 
		transported by this downstream channel since CMTS 
		initialization. For the CM this object is reported as 0."
        ::= { docsIfDownstreamChannelEntry 8 }

docsIfDownChannelUsedBytes OBJECT-TYPE
        SYNTAX      Counter64
        MAX-ACCESS  read-only
        STATUS      current
        DESCRIPTION
		"The total number of DOCSIS data bytes transported by this downstream 
		channel since CMTS initialization. The number of data bytes is 
		defined as the total number of bytes transported in DOCSIS Payloads
		minus the number of stuff_bytes transported in DOCSIS Payloads. For 
		the CM this object is reported as 0."
        ::= { docsIfDownstreamChannelEntry 9 }



-----Original Message-----
From: Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 10:30 AM
To: Greg White
Cc: Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5



We are agreeable with your suggestion. 
And we can compromise for the utilization table if still desired by the MSOs. 

Regards, 
Greg & Tom C. 




"Greg White" <g.white@CableLabs.com> 
10/28/02 01:05 PM 
        
        To:        "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>, <Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com> 
        cc:        "DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List" <docsis-20@CableLabs.com>, "DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List" <docsis-oss@CableLabs.com>, "Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM" <Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com>, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>, "Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)" <rwoundy@broadband.att.com> 
        Subject:        RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5



All,

Since I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have channel utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some comments.

Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did raise some interesting points about the side-effects of making a very simple snapshot view of channel utilization available via the MIB.  If we can come up with an alternative that still meets the operators' needs and does not have these side-effects, then I think it would not be a difficult sell.

Just thinking out-loud here....

If running counters were used, I think the following would be all that is absolutely necessary for calculating upstream utilization.

1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical channel
2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical channel

I don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is available now.

In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation is clear: query both objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take the ratio of the two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over the interval.

In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the calculation is not as straightforward.  Assuming that counter 1 includes minislots allocated to the null SID (while the logical channel is idle), then the operator could calculate % utilization for each logical channel, and sum them to get the total utilization for the physical channel. There is some ambiguity in the case where initial maintenance slots are shared between the logical channels, but that exists regardless of how utilization is reported, and even if not resolved would probably have a negligible impact on the end result.

The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to associate the logical channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting these counters in aggregate for the physical channel.


So rather than a single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the utilization, the operator would (in general) have to identify the ifIndex of the physical channel in question, query the ifStackTable to identify all logical channels associated with that physical channel, then query the two counters on each logical channel at the start and end of the interval and do the math above.  It certainly isn't as straightforward as a single MIB object for utilization percentage, but also doesn't have the side-effects that Tom brought up.

A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization table as is, and add the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable.  Since the CMTS probably has to maintain these counters anyway in order to report utilization, maybe this would not add much overhead.  Something similar would have to be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as well.

Thoughts?

-Greg






-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM
To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; Raftus, David
Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
2 5


Hi Tom,

Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially though
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel utilization
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured their
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be seen as
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already have
expressed their desires.

Please see individual responses inline.

Regards,
Dave



Dave, 

Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email. 

Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the basic
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a physical
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing how
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements. 

We also like the idea of "displaying one line per physical channel summary
of utilization stats in displays", but the manner in which the data is
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. We
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can be
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the data is
stored or sampled. 

There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we wanted
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in the
draft. 

Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can occur as
a result of that approach. 

1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS.
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact that
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In that
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and destroys
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that were
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers are
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without checking. 

<dave>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management problem.
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be an
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table could
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the others.
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when the
most recent interval started, or when it would end.  
<end dave>


2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) and
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of time.
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to support
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the low-resolution
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas the
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst) 
measurements.

<dave>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from doing
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup sampling
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. The
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical channel
utilization.
<end dave>

3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling interval
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short sampling
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic (with a
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of the
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals and
"averaging the averages". However, to do this averaging of averages, the
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the sampling
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise,  it
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. Since
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the CMTS
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) is
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation. 

<dave>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick fairly
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from gathering
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want through
other methods available to them.
<end dave>

Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had
originally intended. 

We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified
approach should be based on counters. 

All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw bandwidth,
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be sampled
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their desired
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at the
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end of
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide by
the window size to create the average. As a result of this approach,
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with one
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term and
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long windows
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach provides
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. Using
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate the
needs of more MSOs. 

Thanks,
Tom 


Tom Cloonan
CTO- Broadband Division
ARRIS

Phone:  630-281-3050
Fax:       630-955-9870
e-mail:    tom.cloonan@arrisi.com

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com           
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************               


-----Original Message-----
From:                  Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com [mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] 
Sent:                 Friday, October 25, 2002 7:04 PM
To:                 Raftus, David
Cc:                 Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
Subject:                 [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
25

<< Message:  >>  << File: image001.png >>  << File: image002.jpg >> 
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Oops, looks like our emails crossed in the mail.=20
=20
I don't think the intention was to count on a per CM basis, only on a =
per channel basis.  See my proposal for what I had in mind.
=20
-Greg
=20
=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 12:30 PM
To: Raftus, David; 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; 'Greg White'
Cc: 'DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List'; 'DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List'; 'Ipcdn =
List (E-mail)'; 'Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)'; 'Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM'
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct =
2 5


A revision for this proposal. It was not my intention to require =
downstream counts per attached CM - merely per downstream physical =
channel. It is inappropriate to place these downstream counts in the =
downstreamChannelTable - they are not maintained by the CM, and there is =
no precedent for counters in this table. If these downstream counts are =
required, a new table implemented only at the CMTS and indexed by =
physical channel would be required.
=20
Therefore, only these 2 counters added to the docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable:
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted
Counter64
64bit counter for raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)
=20
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed
Counter64
64bit counter for used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)
=20
=20
=20
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
=20
david.raftus@imedia.com          =20
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************              =20

=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David=20
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2002 1:52 PM
To: 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Greg White
Cc: Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; =
Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct =
2 5
=20
Hi,
=20
Ok, 4 new 64 bit counters to be added. The most appropriate place would =
seem to be the docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable - one instance of this table =
exists for each CM connected to the CMTS, and is the defacto placeholder =
for CM related counters.
=20
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted
Counter64
64bit counter for raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)
=20
docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed
Counter64
64bit counter for used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per =
CM)
=20
docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxTotalBits
Counter64
64bit counter for total bits transmitted downstream per physical channel =
(ie per CM)
=20
docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxDataBits
Counter64
64bit counter for actual data bits transmitted downstream per physical =
channel (ie per CM)
=20
Dave
=20
************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2
=20
david.raftus@imedia.com          =20
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************              =20

=20
-----Original Message-----
From: Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]
Sent: Wednesday, October 30, 2002 12:30 PM
To: Greg White
Cc: Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; =
Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct =
2 5
=20

We are agreeable with your suggestion.=20
And we can compromise for the utilization table if still desired by the =
MSOs.=20

Regards,=20
Greg & Tom C.=20





=20
"Greg White" <g.white@CableLabs.com>=20
10/28/02 01:05 PM=20
       =20
        To:        "Raftus, David" <david.raftus@imedia.com>, =
<Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com>=20
        cc:        "DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List" =
<docsis-20@CableLabs.com>, "DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List" =
<docsis-oss@CableLabs.com>, "Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM" =
<Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com>, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)" <ipcdn@ietf.org>, "Rich =
Woundy (Work) (E-mail)" <rwoundy@broadband.att.com>=20
        Subject:        RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period =
end Friday Oct 2 5



All,

Since I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have =
channel utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some =
comments.

Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did raise some interesting =
points about the side-effects of making a very simple snapshot view of =
channel utilization available via the MIB.  If we can come up with an =
alternative that still meets the operators' needs and does not have =
these side-effects, then I think it would not be a difficult sell.

Just thinking out-loud here....

If running counters were used, I think the following would be all that =
is absolutely necessary for calculating upstream utilization.

1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical channel
2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical channel

I don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is =
available now.

In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation is clear: query =
both objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take the =
ratio of the two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over =
the interval.

In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the calculation is not as =
straightforward.  Assuming that counter 1 includes minislots allocated =
to the null SID (while the logical channel is idle), then the operator =
could calculate % utilization for each logical channel, and sum them to =
get the total utilization for the physical channel. There is some =
ambiguity in the case where initial maintenance slots are shared between =
the logical channels, but that exists regardless of how utilization is =
reported, and even if not resolved would probably have a negligible =
impact on the end result.

The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to associate the logical =
channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting these counters in =
aggregate for the physical channel.


So rather than a single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the =
utilization, the operator would (in general) have to identify the =
ifIndex of the physical channel in question, query the ifStackTable to =
identify all logical channels associated with that physical channel, =
then query the two counters on each logical channel at the start and end =
of the interval and do the math above.  It certainly isn't as =
straightforward as a single MIB object for utilization percentage, but =
also doesn't have the side-effects that Tom brought up.

A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization table as is, and =
add the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable.  Since the =
CMTS probably has to maintain these counters anyway in order to report =
utilization, maybe this would not add much overhead.  Something similar =
would have to be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as well.

Thoughts?

-Greg






-----Original Message-----
From: Raftus, David [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM
To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; Raftus, David
Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)
Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct
2 5


Hi Tom,

Thanks for your well-considered comments. I need to state initially =
though
that the MSOs have already told us what they want - the channel =
utilization
mib design originated with them, not with me. I simply structured their
needs into the mib design. I fear that your proposed changes may be seen =
as
an attempt to 'tell the customer what they want', when they already have
expressed their desires.

Please see individual responses inline.

Regards,
Dave



Dave,=20

Thanks for the quick response on Greg's email.=20

Greg and I were discussing this topic earlier, and we agreed that the =
basic
premise behind your proposal (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a =
physical
interface) is very sound and quite desirable. We were even discussing =
how
many MSOs already acquired and displayed a lot of these statistical
measurements via MRTG calculations of SNMP-acquired counts, so we
acknowledge the value of the statistical measurements.=20

We also like the idea of "displaying one line per physical channel =
summary
of utilization stats in displays", but the manner in which the data is
displayed seems not to be related to how the data is stored in the MIB. =
We
think that the goal of displaying one line per physical channel can be
accomplished in many ways without affecting the manner in which the data =
is
stored or sampled.=20

There are a few fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we =
wanted
to discuss alternatives to the specific approach that was described in =
the
draft.=20

Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the requirement that
there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several problems can =
occur as
a result of that approach.=20

1) Consider the case where multiple SNMP managers are accessing the =
CMTS.
The biggest problem with the proposal in the draft seems to be the fact =
that
it precludes multiple SNMP managers from simultaneously accessing the
statistical data if they have different desired sampling intervals. In =
that
case, the last SNMP manager to set the sampling interval wins and =
destroys
the resolution of the accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that =
were
already accessing the CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers =
are
not even aware that their data collection was corrupted without =
checking.=20

<dave>
If this situation occurs, I believe it would be an MSO management =
problem.
Multiple snmp managers with write access to the CMTS would seem to be an
undesirable dangerous situation. Writable parameters in any table could
conceivably be changed by one manager without being known by the others.
I could see the merit in adding an object to record when either when the
most recent interval started, or when it would end. =20
<end dave>


2) The problem also shows up if you have a single SNMP manager that is
trying to collect data with high-resolution (short sampling intervals) =
and
with low-resolution (long sampling intervals) for the same window of =
time.
Unless I am missing something, the proposed approach seems not to =
support
this requirement, which we have seen to be desired by MSOs that display
their statistics with MRTG. This is desirable, because the =
low-resolution
sampling is useful for displaying long-term average measurements whereas =
the
high-resolution sampling is useful for displaying short-term (burst)=20
measurements.

<dave>
I do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from doing
this. They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup sampling
intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated statistical scenarios. =
The
new utilization table is there for their convenience and at their
suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple physical =
channel
utilization.
<end dave>

3) If stored in the fashion that you described and if the sampling =
interval
is set up to collect high resolution statistics (with a short sampling
interval), then collecting an approximate low resolution statistic (with =
a
long sampling interval) will require the SNMP manager to store ALL of =
the
samples that the agent creates with the short sampling intervals and
"averaging the averages". However, to do this averaging of averages, the
SNMP manager's collection process must be synchronized to the sampling
window on the CMTS to sample ALL of the sampling intervals. Otherwise,  =
it
may miss some of the samples or over-sample a window more than once. =
Since
it is not likely that the SNMP manager will be synchronized with the =
CMTS
sampling interval, this approximation (using an average of averages) is
unlikely to be correct in a real-world implementation.=20

<dave>
Similar reply as to 2). Please view the utilization table as a quick =
fairly
accurate summary of activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from gathering
statistics and garnering the more detailed information they want through
other methods available to them.
<end dave>

Because of these deficiencies within the proposed draft, we believe that
MSOs may find the resulting MIB objects to be less useful than you had
originally intended.=20

We believe that you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the
data they need to create the statistics) and circumvent the three =
problems
listed above if you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified
approach should be based on counters.=20

All of the data required for the statistical measurements (raw =
bandwidth,
data passed, etc.) can be passed up as counters. The counters can be =
sampled
from each SNMP manager with sampling rates that correspond to their =
desired
resolutions. Thus, an SNMP manager can take a first counter sample at =
the
beginning of the desired window and a second counter sample at the end =
of
the window, and it can then subtract the two counter values and divide =
by
the window size to create the average. As a result of this approach,
multiple SNMP managers can access the counters and not interfere with =
one
another. In addition, a single SNMP manager can maintain both long-term =
and
short-term statistics by taking samples with both short and long windows
that are overlapping one another. We believe that this approach provides
more flexibility in displaying the statistical data that MSOs want. =
Using
this counter approach may permit more flexibility and may accommod! ate =
the
needs of more MSOs.=20

Thanks,
Tom=20


Tom Cloonan
CTO- Broadband Division
ARRIS

Phone:  630-281-3050
Fax:       630-955-9870
e-mail:    tom.cloonan@arrisi.com

************************************
David Raftus
Imedia Semiconductor
340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202
Ottawa Canada  K2K 3A2

david.raftus@imedia.com          =20
613.592.1052  ext 222
************************************              =20


-----Original Message-----
From:                  Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com =
[mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com]=20
Sent:                 Friday, October 25, 2002 7:04 PM
To:                 Raftus, David
Cc:                 Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis =
Oss Reflector
(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List (E-mail);
owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com
Subject:                 [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period =
end Friday Oct
25

<< Message:  >>  << File: image001.png >>  << File: image002.jpg >>=20



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<DIV><SPAN class=3D201163319-31102002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>Oops,=20
looks like our emails crossed in the mail. </FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D201163319-31102002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D201163319-31102002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =
size=3D2>I=20
don't think the intention was to count on a per CM basis, only on a per =
channel=20
basis.&nbsp; See my proposal for what I had in mind.</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D201163319-31102002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D201163319-31102002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2>-Greg</FONT></SPAN></DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D201163319-31102002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><SPAN class=3D201163319-31102002><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#0000ff =

size=3D2></FONT></SPAN>&nbsp;</DIV>
<BLOCKQUOTE dir=3Dltr style=3D"MARGIN-RIGHT: 0px">
  <DIV class=3DOutlookMessageHeader dir=3Dltr align=3Dleft><FONT =
face=3DTahoma=20
  size=3D2>-----Original Message-----<BR><B>From:</B> Raftus, David=20
  [mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]<BR><B>Sent:</B> Thursday, October 31, =
2002=20
  12:30 PM<BR><B>To:</B> Raftus, David; 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; 'Greg=20
  White'<BR><B>Cc:</B> 'DOCSIS 2.0 Majordomo List'; 'DOCSIS OSS =
Majordomo List';=20
  'Ipcdn List (E-mail)'; 'Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)';=20
  'Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM'<BR><B>Subject:</B> RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib =
draft v5 -=20
  comment period end Friday Oct 2 5<BR><BR></FONT></DIV>
  <DIV class=3DSection1>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">A=20
  revision for this proposal. It was not my intention to require =
downstream=20
  counts per attached CM - merely per downstream physical channel. It is =

  inappropriate to place these downstream counts in the =
downstreamChannelTable -=20
  they are not maintained by the CM, and there is no precedent for =
counters in=20
  this table. If these downstream counts are required, a new table =
implemented=20
  only at the CMTS and indexed by physical channel would be=20
  required.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3D#993366=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Therefore,=20
  only these 2 counters added to the=20
  docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable:<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FON=
T></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Counter64<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">64bit counter=20
  for raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per=20
  CM)</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#993366 =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#993366 =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" color=3D#993366 size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: #993366; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
/SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Counter64<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">64bit counter=20
  for used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per=20
  CM)<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
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style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![endi=
f]--><FONT=20
  face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">************************************<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>=

  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
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  Raftus<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Imedia=20
  Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">340=20
  Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Ottawa=20
  Canada<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>K2K=20
  3A2<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">david.raftus@imedia.com<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I style=3D"mso-bidi-font-style: normal"><FONT =
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  color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
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  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>ext=20
  222<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
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FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">************************************<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></I><FONT =
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  color=3D#993366 size=3D2><SPAN=20
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  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
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  <P class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle18><font=20
size=3D2 color=3D"#993366" face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]--><=
SPAN=20
  class=3DEmailStyle18><FONT face=3DArial color=3D#993366 size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B> =
Raftus,=20
  David <BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> =
Thursday,=20
  October 31, 2002 1:52 PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: =
bold">To:</SPAN></B>=20
  'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Greg White<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 =
Majordomo=20
  List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy =
(Work)=20
  (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib =
draft v5=20
  - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5</SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Hi,<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Ok, 4=20
  new 64 bit counters to be added. The most appropriate place would seem =
to be=20
  the docsIfCmtsCmStatusTable - one instance of this table exists for =
each CM=20
  connected to the CMTS, and is the defacto placeholder for CM related=20
  counters.<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsGranted<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FON=
T></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Counter64<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">64bit counter=20
  for raw minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per=20
  CM)</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">docsIfCmtsCmStatusUpstreamMinislotsUsed<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
/SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Counter64<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">64bit counter=20
  for used minislots, per upstream logical channel (ie - per=20
  CM)</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxTotalBits<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT><=
/SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Counter64<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">64bit counter=20
  for total bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie per=20
  CM)</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">docsIfCmtsCmStatusDownstreamTxDataBits<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></=
SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">Counter64<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">64bit counter=20
  for actual data bits transmitted downstream per physical channel (ie =
per=20
  CM)</SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'"><![if !supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier New'; =
mso-color-alt: windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">Dave</SPAN></FONT><SPAN=20
  class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><SPAN class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dnavy=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle17><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-begin'></span><span=20
style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp;</span>AUTOTEXTLIST \s &quot;E-mail=20
Signature&quot; <span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-separator'></span></span></font></span><![endi=
f]--><FONT=20
  face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">************************************<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>=

  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">David=20
  Raftus<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Imedia=20
  Semiconductor<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">340=20
  Terry Fox Drive, Suite 202<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">Ottawa=20
  Canada<SPAN style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>K2K=20
  3A2<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">david.raftus@imedia.com<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  </SPAN><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt">613.592.1052<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN>ext=20
  222<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></I></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><I><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblue size=3D2><SPAN =

  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: blue; FONT-STYLE: italic; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt">************************************<SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: yes">&nbsp; </SPAN></SPAN></FONT></I><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: navy; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt"><SPAN=20
  style=3D"mso-spacerun: =
yes">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;</SPAN></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; =
mso-bidi-font-size: 12.0pt; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dnavy =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: navy"><IMG class=3Dshape=20
  style=3D"DISPLAY: none; WIDTH: 0in; HEIGHT: 0in" height=3D0=20
  src=3D"cid:201163319@31102002-2159" width=3D0 v:src =3D=20
  "cid:image001.png@01C280EA.1C0C0E90" v:dpi =3D "96" width =3D "1" =
height =3D "1"><!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shape id=3D"_x0000_i1025" =
type=3D"#_x0000_t75"=20
 style=3D'width:115.5pt;height:34.5pt'>
 <v:imagedata src=3D"cid:image001.png@01C280EA.1C0C0E90" =
o:title=3D"imedia"/>
</v:shape><![endif]--><![if !vml]><IMG height=3D46=20
  src=3D"cid:201163319@31102002-2167" width=3D154=20
  v:shapes=3D"_x0000_i1025"><![endif]></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><!--[if supportFields]><span =
class=3DEmailStyle17><font=20
size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:
12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><span =
style=3D'mso-element:field-end'></span></span></font></span><![endif]--><=
SPAN=20
  class=3DEmailStyle17><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dnavy size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY: Arial; mso-bidi-font-size: =
12.0pt"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></SPAN></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DTahoma color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Tahoma">-----Original=20
  Message-----<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">From:</SPAN></B>=20
  Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM [mailto:Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM]<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Sent:</SPAN></B> Wednesday, October 30, =
2002 12:30=20
  PM<BR><B><SPAN style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">To:</SPAN></B> Greg =
White<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Cc:</SPAN></B> Raftus, David; DOCSIS 2.0 =
Majordomo=20
  List; DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List; Ipcdn List (E-mail); Rich Woundy =
(Work)=20
  (E-mail); Tom.Cloonan@ARRISI.COM<BR><B><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Subject:</SPAN></B> RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib =
draft v5=20
  - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack =
size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">We are =
agreeable=20
  with your suggestion.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">And we=20
  can compromise for the utilization table if still desired by the=20
  MSOs.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black">=20
  <BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">Regards,</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: Arial">Greg &amp; =
Tom=20
  C.</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> =
<BR><BR><BR=20
  style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR=20
  style=3D"mso-special-character: =
line-break"><![endif]></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
  <TABLE=20
  style=3D"WIDTH: 100%; mso-cellspacing: 1.5pt; mso-padding-alt: 0pt 0pt =
0pt 0pt"=20
  cellPadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" border=3D0>
    <TBODY>
    <TR>
      <TD=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
      vAlign=3Dtop>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><![if =
!supportEmptyParas]><![endif]>&nbsp;<FONT=20
        face=3D"Times New Roman" color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
      <TD=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
      vAlign=3Dtop>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><B><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-WEIGHT: bold; FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; =
FONT-FAMILY: Arial">"Greg=20
        White" &lt;g.white@CableLabs.com&gt;</SPAN></FONT></B><FONT=20
        color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: black"> </SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
        color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
        style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P>
        <P><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack size=3D1><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">10/28/02=20
        01:05 PM</SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN style=3D"COLOR: =
black">=20
        </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
        style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></TD>
      <TD=20
      style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 0.75pt; PADDING-LEFT: 0.75pt; =
PADDING-BOTTOM: 0.75pt; PADDING-TOP: 0.75pt"=20
      vAlign=3Dtop>
        <P class=3DMsoNormal><FONT face=3DArial color=3Dblack =
size=3D1><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
        &nbsp; &nbsp; </SPAN></FONT><FONT color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
        style=3D"COLOR: black"><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
        size=3D1><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
        &nbsp; &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"Raftus, David"=20
        &lt;david.raftus@imedia.com&gt;,=20
        &lt;Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com&gt;</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
        style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
        size=3D1><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
        &nbsp; &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;"DOCSIS 2.0 =
Majordomo List"=20
        &lt;docsis-20@CableLabs.com&gt;, "DOCSIS OSS Majordomo List"=20
        &lt;docsis-oss@CableLabs.com&gt;, "Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM"=20
        &lt;Greg.Gohman@arrisi.com&gt;, "Ipcdn List (E-mail)"=20
        &lt;ipcdn@ietf.org&gt;, "Rich Woundy (Work) (E-mail)"=20
        &lt;rwoundy@broadband.att.com&gt;</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
        style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3DArial =
color=3Dblack=20
        size=3D1><SPAN=20
        style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 7.5pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: =
Arial">&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
        &nbsp; &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;RE: [ipcdn] =
RE: rf mib=20
        draft v5 - comment period end Friday Oct 2 5</SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
        color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
        style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
  <P class=3DMsoNormal style=3D"MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt"><FONT face=3D"Times =
New Roman"=20
  color=3Dblack size=3D3><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 12pt; COLOR: =
black"><BR><BR><BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Courier New" color=3Dblack size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">All,<BR><BR>Since=20
  I originally presented to this group the desire of MSOs to have =
channel=20
  utilization information, I thought I'd chime in with some=20
  comments.<BR><BR>Dave's comments notwithstanding, I think Tom did =
raise some=20
  interesting points about the side-effects of making a very simple =
snapshot=20
  view of channel utilization available via the MIB. &nbsp;If we can =
come up=20
  with an alternative that still meets the operators' needs and does not =
have=20
  these side-effects, then I think it would not be a difficult =
sell.<BR><BR>Just=20
  thinking out-loud here....<BR><BR>If running counters were used, I =
think the=20
  following would be all that is absolutely necessary for calculating =
upstream=20
  utilization.<BR><BR>1) 64bit counter for raw minislots, per logical=20
  channel<BR>2) 64bit counter for minislots used, per logical =
channel<BR><BR>I=20
  don't think that either of these counters, or anything close, is =
available=20
  now.<BR><BR>In the case of a single logical channel, the calculation =
is clear:=20
  query both objects at the start of the interval, then at the end, take =
the=20
  ratio of the two deltas and you get the utilization, in percent, over =
the=20
  interval.<BR><BR>In the case of two (or more) logical channels, the=20
  calculation is not as straightforward. &nbsp;Assuming that counter 1 =
includes=20
  minislots allocated to the null SID (while the logical channel is =
idle), then=20
  the operator could calculate % utilization for each logical channel, =
and sum=20
  them to get the total utilization for the physical channel. There is =
some=20
  ambiguity in the case where initial maintenance slots are shared =
between the=20
  logical channels, but that exists regardless of how utilization is =
reported,=20
  and even if not resolved would probably have a negligible impact on =
the end=20
  result.<BR><BR>The operator would have to use the ifStackTable to =
associate=20
  the logical channels, since I don't see a simple way of reporting =
these=20
  counters in aggregate for the physical channel.<BR><BR><BR>So rather =
than a=20
  single MIB object to query to get a snapshot of the utilization, the =
operator=20
  would (in general) have to identify the ifIndex of the physical =
channel in=20
  question, query the ifStackTable to identify all logical channels =
associated=20
  with that physical channel, then query the two counters on each =
logical=20
  channel at the start and end of the interval and do the math above. =
&nbsp;It=20
  certainly isn't as straightforward as a single MIB object for =
utilization=20
  percentage, but also doesn't have the side-effects that Tom brought=20
  up.<BR><BR>A possible compromise would be to leave the utilization =
table as=20
  is, and add the two counters above to the docsIfUpstreamChannelTable.=20
  &nbsp;Since the CMTS probably has to maintain these counters anyway in =
order=20
  to report utilization, maybe this would not add much overhead. =
&nbsp;Something=20
  similar would have to be added to the docsIfDownChannelTable as=20
  =
well.<BR><BR>Thoughts?<BR><BR>-Greg<BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR><BR>-----Origi=
nal=20
  Message-----<BR>From: Raftus, David =
[mailto:david.raftus@imedia.com]<BR>Sent:=20
  Monday, October 28, 2002 8:21 AM<BR>To: 'Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com'; =
Raftus,=20
  David<BR>Cc: Raftus, David; Docsis 20 Reflector (E-mail); Docsis Oss=20
  Reflector<BR>(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; Ipcdn List=20
  (E-mail);<BR>owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com; Rich Woundy (Work)=20
  (E-mail)<BR>Subject: RE: [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 - comment period =
end=20
  Friday Oct<BR>2 5<BR><BR><BR>Hi Tom,<BR><BR>Thanks for your =
well-considered=20
  comments. I need to state initially though<BR>that the MSOs have =
already told=20
  us what they want - the channel utilization<BR>mib design originated =
with=20
  them, not with me. I simply structured their<BR>needs into the mib =
design. I=20
  fear that your proposed changes may be seen as<BR>an attempt to 'tell =
the=20
  customer what they want', when they already have<BR>expressed their=20
  desires.<BR><BR>Please see individual responses=20
  inline.<BR><BR>Regards,<BR>Dave<BR><BR><BR><BR>Dave, <BR><BR>Thanks =
for the=20
  quick response on Greg's email. <BR><BR>Greg and I were discussing =
this topic=20
  earlier, and we agreed that the basic<BR>premise behind your proposal=20
  (allowing MSOs to view statistics on a physical<BR>interface) is very =
sound=20
  and quite desirable. We were even discussing how<BR>many MSOs already =
acquired=20
  and displayed a lot of these statistical<BR>measurements via MRTG =
calculations=20
  of SNMP-acquired counts, so we<BR>acknowledge the value of the =
statistical=20
  measurements. <BR><BR>We also like the idea of "displaying one line =
per=20
  physical channel summary<BR>of utilization stats in displays", but the =
manner=20
  in which the data is<BR>displayed seems not to be related to how the =
data is=20
  stored in the MIB. We<BR>think that the goal of displaying one line =
per=20
  physical channel can be<BR>accomplished in many ways without affecting =
the=20
  manner in which the data is<BR>stored or sampled. <BR><BR>There are a =
few=20
  fundamental areas of concern within the draft, so we wanted<BR>to =
discuss=20
  alternatives to the specific approach that was described in =
the<BR>draft.=20
  <BR><BR>Our biggest concern with the existing proposal was the =
requirement=20
  that<BR>there be a fixed sampling interval. We believe several =
problems can=20
  occur as<BR>a result of that approach. <BR><BR>1) Consider the case =
where=20
  multiple SNMP managers are accessing the CMTS.<BR>The biggest problem =
with the=20
  proposal in the draft seems to be the fact that<BR>it precludes =
multiple SNMP=20
  managers from simultaneously accessing the<BR>statistical data if they =
have=20
  different desired sampling intervals. In that<BR>case, the last SNMP =
manager=20
  to set the sampling interval wins and destroys<BR>the resolution of =
the=20
  accesses for all of the other SNMP managers that were<BR>already =
accessing the=20
  CMTS data. In addition, the other SNMP managers are<BR>not even aware =
that=20
  their data collection was corrupted without checking.=20
  <BR><BR>&lt;dave&gt;<BR>If this situation occurs, I believe it would =
be an MSO=20
  management problem.<BR>Multiple snmp managers with write access to the =
CMTS=20
  would seem to be an<BR>undesirable dangerous situation. Writable =
parameters in=20
  any table could<BR>conceivably be changed by one manager without being =
known=20
  by the others.<BR>I could see the merit in adding an object to record =
when=20
  either when the<BR>most recent interval started, or when it would end. =

  &nbsp;<BR>&lt;end dave&gt;<BR><BR><BR>2) The problem also shows up if =
you have=20
  a single SNMP manager that is<BR>trying to collect data with =
high-resolution=20
  (short sampling intervals) and<BR>with low-resolution (long sampling=20
  intervals) for the same window of time.<BR>Unless I am missing =
something, the=20
  proposed approach seems not to support<BR>this requirement, which we =
have seen=20
  to be desired by MSOs that display<BR>their statistics with MRTG. This =
is=20
  desirable, because the low-resolution<BR>sampling is useful for =
displaying=20
  long-term average measurements whereas the<BR>high-resolution sampling =
is=20
  useful for displaying short-term (burst)</SPAN></FONT><FONT =
color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black"> <BR></SPAN></FONT><FONT face=3D"Courier New" =
color=3Dblack=20
  size=3D2><SPAN=20
  style=3D"FONT-SIZE: 10pt; COLOR: black; FONT-FAMILY: 'Courier =
New'">measurements.<BR><BR>&lt;dave&gt;<BR>I=20
  do not see that the new utilization table precludes an MSO from =
doing<BR>this.=20
  They are certainly free to use existing counters to setup=20
  sampling<BR>intervals, etc as they wish for more complicated =
statistical=20
  scenarios. The<BR>new utilization table is there for their convenience =
and at=20
  their<BR>suggestion. It provides an easy method of measuring simple =
physical=20
  channel<BR>utilization.<BR>&lt;end dave&gt;<BR><BR>3) If stored in the =
fashion=20
  that you described and if the sampling interval<BR>is set up to =
collect high=20
  resolution statistics (with a short sampling<BR>interval), then =
collecting an=20
  approximate low resolution statistic (with a<BR>long sampling =
interval) will=20
  require the SNMP manager to store ALL of the<BR>samples that the agent =
creates=20
  with the short sampling intervals and<BR>"averaging the averages". =
However, to=20
  do this averaging of averages, the<BR>SNMP manager's collection =
process must=20
  be synchronized to the sampling<BR>window on the CMTS to sample ALL of =
the=20
  sampling intervals. Otherwise, &nbsp;it<BR>may miss some of the =
samples or=20
  over-sample a window more than once. Since<BR>it is not likely that =
the SNMP=20
  manager will be synchronized with the CMTS<BR>sampling interval, this=20
  approximation (using an average of averages) is<BR>unlikely to be =
correct in a=20
  real-world implementation. <BR><BR>&lt;dave&gt;<BR>Similar reply as to =
2).=20
  Please view the utilization table as a quick fairly<BR>accurate =
summary of=20
  activity. This doesn't stop the MSO from gathering<BR>statistics and =
garnering=20
  the more detailed information they want through<BR>other methods =
available to=20
  them.<BR>&lt;end dave&gt;<BR><BR>Because of these deficiencies within =
the=20
  proposed draft, we believe that<BR>MSOs may find the resulting MIB =
objects to=20
  be less useful than you had<BR>originally intended. <BR><BR>We believe =
that=20
  you can accomplish your goal (of providing MSOs with the<BR>data they =
need to=20
  create the statistics) and circumvent the three problems<BR>listed =
above if=20
  you slightly modify your approach. We think the modified<BR>approach =
should be=20
  based on counters. <BR><BR>All of the data required for the =
statistical=20
  measurements (raw bandwidth,<BR>data passed, etc.) can be passed up as =

  counters. The counters can be sampled<BR>from each SNMP manager with =
sampling=20
  rates that correspond to their desired<BR>resolutions. Thus, an SNMP =
manager=20
  can take a first counter sample at the<BR>beginning of the desired =
window and=20
  a second counter sample at the end of<BR>the window, and it can then =
subtract=20
  the two counter values and divide by<BR>the window size to create the =
average.=20
  As a result of this approach,<BR>multiple SNMP managers can access the =

  counters and not interfere with one<BR>another. In addition, a single =
SNMP=20
  manager can maintain both long-term and<BR>short-term statistics by =
taking=20
  samples with both short and long windows<BR>that are overlapping one =
another.=20
  We believe that this approach provides<BR>more flexibility in =
displaying the=20
  statistical data that MSOs want. Using<BR>this counter approach may =
permit=20
  more flexibility and may accommod! ate the<BR>needs of more MSOs.=20
  <BR><BR>Thanks,<BR>Tom <BR><BR><BR>Tom Cloonan<BR>CTO- Broadband=20
  Division<BR>ARRIS<BR><BR>Phone: &nbsp;630-281-3050<BR>Fax: &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; 630-955-9870<BR>e-mail: &nbsp;=20
  =
&nbsp;tom.cloonan@arrisi.com<BR><BR>************************************<=
BR>David=20
  Raftus<BR>Imedia Semiconductor<BR>340 Terry Fox Drive, Suite =
202<BR>Ottawa=20
  Canada &nbsp;K2K 3A2<BR><BR>david.raftus@imedia.com &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR>613.592.1052 &nbsp;ext=20
  222<BR>************************************ &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; <BR><BR><BR>-----Original Message-----<BR>From: &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com =

  [mailto:Tom.Cloonan@arrisi.com] <BR>Sent: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Friday, October 25, 2002 7:04 PM<BR>To: &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Raftus, David<BR>Cc: &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Raftus, David; Docsis 20 =
Reflector=20
  (E-mail); Docsis Oss Reflector<BR>(E-mail); 'Greg.Gohman@ARRISI.COM'; =
Ipcdn=20
  List (E-mail);<BR>owner-docsis-20@cablelabs.com<BR>Subject: &nbsp; =
&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; [ipcdn] RE: rf mib draft v5 =
-=20
  comment period end Friday Oct<BR>25<BR><BR>&lt;&lt; Message: =
&nbsp;&gt;&gt;=20
  &nbsp;&lt;&lt; File: image001.png &gt;&gt; &nbsp;&lt;&lt; File: =
image002.jpg=20
  &gt;&gt; <BR style=3D"mso-special-character: line-break"><![if =
!supportLineBreakNewLine]><BR=20
  style=3D"mso-special-character: =
line-break"><![endif]></SPAN></FONT><FONT=20
  color=3Dblack><SPAN=20
  style=3D"COLOR: black; mso-color-alt: =
windowtext"><o:p></o:p></SPAN></FONT></P></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BODY></HTML=
>

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