From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Mon Jun 6 08:24:07 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA25159 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 08:24:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DfGz6-0007zj-FQ for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Jun 2005 08:45:41 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j56Bg8pY029384 for ; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:42:08 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j56Bg81V029383 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:42:08 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j56BfcaE029361 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT); Mon, 6 Jun 2005 12:41:39 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42A43672.6050401@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:41:38 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk CC: Bernhard Collini-Nocker , margaret@thingmagic.com Subject: Re: Change to example A in: draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-05 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bert Wijnen (IESG) noted that the IPv6 addresses used in ANNEX B of the current ULE Spec, page 41 are: Source IPv6: 2001:660:3008:1789::5 Destination IPv6: 2001:660:3008:1789::6 However, to avoid problems arising from people testing with the default addresses specified in RFCs, the IETF requires all RFCs to reference addresses in a "mythical" prefix that should not be routed to the general Internet. This is described in RFC3849, which has reserved: prefix 2001:DB8::/32 as a documentation-only prefix in the IPv6 address registry. No end party is to be assigned this address. The example in the appendix has thus been reworked by Bernhard, and new proposed text follows at the end of this email. I propose to use this new example in a revised rev, which will also include the fixes to typos and additional sentences agreed following discussion with the IESG. Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst (ipdvb WG Chair) --------------------------------------------------------- ANNEX B: Informative Appendix - SNDU Encapsulation An example of ULE encapsulation carrying an ICMPv6 packet generated by ping6. ULE SNDU Length : 63 decimal D-bit value : 0 (NPA destination address present) ULE Protocol Type : 0x86dd (IPv6) Destination ULE NPA Address: 00:01:02:03:04:05 ULE CRC32 : 0x7c171763 Source IPv6: 2001:DB8:3008:1965::1 Destination IPv6: 2001:DB8:2509:1962::2 SNDU contents (including CRC-32): 0000: 00 3f 86 dd 00 01 02 03 04 05 60 00 00 00 00 0d 0016: 3a 40 20 01 0d b8 30 08 19 65 00 00 00 00 00 00 0032: 00 01 20 01 0d b8 25 09 19 62 00 00 00 00 00 00 0048: 00 02 80 00 9d 8c 06 38 00 04 00 00 00 00 00 7c 0064: 17 17 63 From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 14 02:30:39 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA13809 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:30:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Di5J0-00069Y-5J for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 02:53:51 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5E5uTGl019756 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:56:29 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5E5uTsB019755 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:56:29 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from wproxy.gmail.com (wproxy.gmail.com [64.233.184.201]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5E5u4GE019735 for ; Tue, 14 Jun 2005 06:56:05 +0100 (BST) Received: by wproxy.gmail.com with SMTP id 68so162380wri for ; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:55:59 -0700 (PDT) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:reply-to:to:subject:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition; b=UVO646HB4MzM+xrVjnprIBM7Jz2Ziop3EfWJXpYcjZ1RBAb+8ciLhQo/hIr/rJ+mS59QcO/wxIa0joxdDPIBbatl1HNs6iP9nS35AGrHrLpg6SHHjG8BZ4fnvnk0fnD48Z5u/PJEBb9jyOa/EJucwZNd5HyfJo/JPozk8eY5A0w= Received: by 10.54.31.48 with SMTP id e48mr2996257wre; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.54.23.38 with HTTP; Mon, 13 Jun 2005 22:55:59 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <601d808d05061322552fb97c32@mail.gmail.com> Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2005 11:25:59 +0530 From: raj kumar To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: regarding DVB-H Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Disposition: inline X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5E5uSem019752 Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello everybody I am new to DVB-H..I am reading the dvb-h standard.I have few queries: 1) What is the motivation for ip datacasting of audio,video and other form of data in dvb-h?As far as i understand the main challenge for DVB-H was to solve signal problem and battery problem? which were taken care by introducing MPE-FEC(Forward Error Correction) and Time-Slicing respectively. 2)In the DVB-T standard,the general approach to get elementary stream at the receiver side was as follows: To find the TS having PID-0 ie.TS containg PAT table. To find the PMT PID's from the PAT table To get the elementary stream PID's and informations from the Program Map Table. To filter out the needed audio, video streams What is the general approach to get elementary stream in case of DVB-H? What are the issues involved? Thanks and regards, Raju From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Jun 17 06:06:40 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA01206 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DjE7N-0006hn-GS for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 06:30:33 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5H9WQjw020900 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:32:26 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5H9WQ43020899 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:32:26 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5H9VEpR020848 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:31:15 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42B29861.7040205@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 10:31:13 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The following is the announcement of a new WG draft. This draft draws together many discussions on and off the list over the past 12 months or so. Please do consider if you can contribute on any topic relating to addressing over such networks. All questions and all inputs (no matter how small or large) are welcome! Gorry Fairhurst ---- New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP over DVB Working Group of the IETF. Title : Address Resolution for IP datagrams over MPEG-2 networks Author(s) : G. Fairhurst, M. Montpetit Filename : draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-00.txt Pages : Date : 2005-6-16 This document describes the process of binding/associating IPv4/IPv6 addresses with MPEG-2 Transport Streams (TS). This procedure is known as Address Resolution (AR), or Neighbour Discovery (ND). Such address resolution complements the higher layer resource discovery tools that are used to advertise IP sessions. In MPEG-2 networks, an IP address must be associated with a Packet ID (PID) and a specific Transmission Multiplex The document reviews current methods. It also describes the interaction with well-known protocols for address management including DHCP, ARP, and NDP, and provides guidance on usage. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv at ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Jun 17 08:46:55 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12316 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 08:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DjGcS-0001CG-PC for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:10:50 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5HCHhZT025005 for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:17:43 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5HCHg86025003 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:17:42 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5HCH8LT024982 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:17:08 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42B2BF43.9090202@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 13:17:07 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: IETF cut-off dates for IETF Paris meeting Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please not the note below, received from ietf secretariat. If you are intending to submit a NEW document for consideration by the working group or if you are intending to present your document, then please do email me to ensure you do appear on the draft Agenda. Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst ------- There are two (2) Internet-Draft cutoff dates for the 63rd IETF Meeting in Paris, France: July 11th: Cutoff Date for Initial (i.e., version -00) Internet-Draft Submissions All initial Internet-Drafts (version -00) must be submitted by Monday, July 11th at 9:00 AM ET. As always, all initial submissions with a filename beginning with "draft-ietf" must be approved by the appropriate WG Chair before they can be processed or announced. The Secretariat would appreciate receiving WG Chair approval by Tuesday, July 5th at 9:00 AM ET. July 18th: Cutoff Date for Revised (i.e., version -01 and higher) Internet-Draft Submissions All revised Internet-Drafts (version -01 and higher) must be submitted by Monday, July 18th at 9:00 AM ET. Initial and revised Internet-Drafts received after their respective cutoff dates will not be made available in the Internet-Drafts directory or announced until on or after Monday, August 1st at 9:00 AM ET, when Internet-Draft posting resumes. Please do not wait until the last minute to submit. PLEASE NOTE THE CHANGE OF PROCEDURE: If you submit an initial or revised Internet-Draft after their respective cutoff deadlines, then your document will be retained and posted when Internet-Draft processing resumes. You will no longer be required to resubmit the document. Thank you for your understanding and cooperation. If you have any questions or concerns, then please send a message to internet-drafts@ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat FYI: The Internet-Draft cutoff dates as well as other significant dates for the 63rd IETF Meeting can be found at http://www.ietf.org/meetings/cutoff_dates_63.html. _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 04:46:29 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA25052 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 04:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dkemk-00064d-8Q for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 05:11:12 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5L86pVZ009615 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:06:51 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5L86pcC009613 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:06:51 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from mermoz.ensica.fr (loghost.ensica.fr [192.70.110.90]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5L85bHq009555 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 09:05:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from miura2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mermoz.ensica.fr (8.10.2+Sun/jtpda-5.3.1) with ESMTP id j5L86GK16799 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:06:16 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9r=F4me_Lacan?= To: Subject: IP over DVB-S2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:05:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcV2N/rMiad9rGtOR5+z5wzILZ+svg== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, With our colleagues from Alcatel-Space, we are working on the mapping of IP over DVB-S2. Recall that DVB-S2 is the "second generation" DVB system for broadband satellite service. It will probably replace DVB-S in the next few years. You can find the specifications in ETSI document - EN 302 307. One of the main business targets of DVB-S2 is IP packet transmission. The mapping/encapsulation of IP over this system remains an open research issue. Actually, DVB-S2 proposes 2 modes to transport the data. The first one, Transport Stream-TS, is designed to transport MPEG2-TS packets whereas the second one, Generic Stream-GS, is designed to transport continuous streams (which can be compound of variable size packets). Regardless of the chosen mode, the resulting data are then mapped on Data Fields (of length varying from 16008 to 58192 bits) to be encoded by the FEC (LDPC + BCH). Several options can be considered for this mapping. We think that the ipdvb group is a good place to start a discussion on this subject. If you are interested on this subject, could you please manifest your interest? best regards, Jerome Lacan ENSICA/TeSA/LAAS-CNRS Toulouse, France From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 06:00:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA29672 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 06:00:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DkfwN-0007l4-SN for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 06:25:18 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5L9WqoK011523 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:32:52 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5L9Wqd1011522 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:32:52 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from istanbul.uab.es (istanbul.uab.es [158.109.120.18]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5L9W6Ou011494 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:32:06 +0100 (BST) Received: from istanbul.uab.es (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by istanbul.uab.es (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.10 (built Jan 6 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IIF00L75H5VHF20@istanbul.uab.es> for ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:32:19 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([158.109.69.162]) by istanbul.uab.es (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.10 (built Jan 6 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IIF00KAGH5V8MC0@istanbul.uab.es> for ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:32:19 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:33:05 +0200 From: Fausto Vieira Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 In-reply-to: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Message-id: <42B7DED1.6050500@sunaut.uab.es> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5L9WqoK011523 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I would like to participate in this discussion. I think we could start=20 to identify the objectives. Another important thing would be to identify possible problems to solve. Regards -------=20 Fausto Vieira Researcher Dpt. Telecomunicaci=F3 i d'Enginyeria de Sistemes ETSE - UNIVERSITAT AUT=D2NOMA DE BARCELONA Campus Universitari, s/n 08193 Bellatera Barcelona SPAIN Phone :(34) 935813843 Fax :(34) 935814031=20 J=E9r=F4me Lacan wrote: >Dear all, > >With our colleagues from Alcatel-Space, we are working on the mapping of= IP >over DVB-S2. > >Recall that DVB-S2 is the "second generation" DVB system for broadband >satellite service. It will probably replace DVB-S in the next few years. >You >can find the specifications in ETSI document - EN 302 307. > >One of the main business targets of DVB-S2 is IP packet transmission. Th= e >mapping/encapsulation of IP over this system remains an open research is= sue. >Actually, DVB-S2 proposes 2 modes to transport the data. The first one, >Transport Stream-TS, is designed to transport MPEG2-TS packets whereas t= he >second one, Generic Stream-GS, is designed to transport continuous strea= ms >(which can be compound of variable size packets). Regardless of the chos= en >mode, the resulting data are then mapped on Data Fields (of length varyi= ng >from 16008 to 58192 bits) to be encoded by the FEC (LDPC + BCH). > >Several options can be considered for this mapping. We think that the ip= dvb >group is a good place to start a discussion on this subject. >If you are interested on this subject, could you please manifest your >interest? > >best regards, > >Jerome Lacan >ENSICA/TeSA/LAAS-CNRS >Toulouse, France > > =20 > From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 07:17:17 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA05645 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:17:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dkh8f-0001Bd-J0 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:41:59 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LAfGSM013438 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:41:16 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5LAfGid013437 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:41:16 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from loewe.cosy.sbg.ac.at (loewe.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.12]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LAdfnH013363 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:39:42 +0100 (BST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (milbe.cosy.sbg.ac.at [141.201.2.21]) by loewe.cosy.sbg.ac.at (8.8.8/8.8.7) with ESMTP id MAA05907 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:39:41 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <42B7EE4D.7070600@cosy.sbg.ac.at> Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:39:09 +0200 From: Bernhard Collini-Nocker User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0.2 (Windows/20050317) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> <6.1.2.0.0.20050621115605.01d83688@mailer.ing.unirc.it> In-Reply-To: <6.1.2.0.0.20050621115605.01d83688@mailer.ing.unirc.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I guess in general most if not all participants of the ipdvb WG and this mailing list are interested in the topic, although ths topic is not specifically chartered in the ipdvb wg. In my view it would be a logical step to continue the discussions that have started from IP over fixed sized TS packets on IP over variable sized S2 frames... Gorry, do you think it is appropriate to continue the discussions on this mailing list? I would opt for in order to avoid opening another track of discussions on another mailing list... Kind regards, Bernhard From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 07:23:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA06112 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:23:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DkhEF-0001Ll-Q9 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:47:52 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5L9x2ft012293 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:59:02 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5L9x2RB012292 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:59:02 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from mailer.ing.unirc.it ([192.167.48.204]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5L9wQHM012262 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:58:27 +0100 (BST) Received: from acer-nh48myhexr.ing.unirc.it (pulitano.ing.unirc.it [192.167.50.211]) by mailer.ing.unirc.it (8.12.10+Sun/8.12.5) with ESMTP id j5LA6CAF019800 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:06:13 +0200 (CEST) Message-Id: <6.1.2.0.0.20050621115605.01d83688@mailer.ing.unirc.it> X-Sender: pulitano@mailer.ing.unirc.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.1.2.0 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:58:11 +0200 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk From: Salvatore =?iso-8859-1?Q?Pulitan=F2?= Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 In-Reply-To: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed; x-avg-checked=avg-ok-59A63C30 X-yoursite-MailScanner-Information: Please contact the ISP for more information X-yoursite-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5L9x09Z012289 Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5L9x2ft012293 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bc60ec82efc80c84b8d02f4b0e4de22 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I like to participate in this discussion too. The identification of the=20 objectives could be the first step of our work. Regards Salvatore -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---------------------- Eng. Salvatore Pulitan=F2 Dept. DIMET University "Mediterranea" of Reggio Calabria Faculty of Engineering Tel. +39 0965 875 420 --=20 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.9/23 - Release Date: 20/06/2005 From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 07:34:15 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA07023 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:34:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DkhP8-0001cx-TV for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:58:59 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LB4G7D014048 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:04:16 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5LB4GQ8014047 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:04:16 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk (IDENT:exim@prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk [131.227.76.5]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LB31oE013975 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:03:02 +0100 (BST) Received: from argos.ee.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.89.15] ident=eep1lw) by prue.eim.surrey.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #4) id 1DkgWr-00079Z-00; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:02:53 +0100 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:02:51 +0100 (BST) From: Lloyd Wood X-X-Sender: eep1lw@argos.ee.surrey.ac.uk To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk cc: jerome.lacan@ensica.fr, "" Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 In-Reply-To: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> Message-ID: References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> Organization: speaking for none X-url: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/L.Wood/ X-no-archive: not really MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-Spam-Status: No, hits=-102.0 required=7.0 tests=IN_REP_TO,QUOTED_EMAIL_TEXT,REFERENCES,REPLY_WITH_QUOTES, USER_AGENT_PINE,USER_IN_WHITELIST version=2.55 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.55 (1.174.2.19-2003-05-19-exp) X-Scanner: exiscan *1DkgWr-00079Z-00*s8DsZerXvbw* (SECM, UniS) X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-MIME-Autoconverted: from QUOTED-PRINTABLE to 8bit by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5LB4EqK014044 Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5LB4G7D014048 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, J=E9r=F4me Lacan wrote to the ipdvb mailing list: > With our colleagues from Alcatel-Space, we are working on the > mapping of IP over DVB-S2. > > Recall that DVB-S2 is the "second generation" DVB system for > broadband satellite service. It will probably replace DVB-S in the > next few years. You can find the specifications in ETSI document - > EN 302 307. > > One of the main business targets of DVB-S2 is IP packet > transmission. The mapping/encapsulation of IP over this system > remains an open research issue. Actually, DVB-S2 proposes 2 modes to > transport the data. The first one, Transport Stream-TS, is designed > to transport MPEG2-TS packets whereas the second one, Generic > Stream-GS, is designed to transport continuous streams (which can be > compound of variable size packets). Regardless of the chosen mode, > the resulting data are then mapped on Data Fields (of length varying > from 16008 to 58192 bits) to be encoded by the FEC (LDPC + BCH). > > Several options can be considered for this mapping. We think that > the ipdvb group is a good place to start a discussion on this > subject. One approach to transporting continuous streams is to carry a continuous HDLC stream; once you come out of your DVB-S2-capable modem the HDLC stream would be ready to go right into a serial port on any router for the IP packets to be handled there -- and integrating modem and router becomes easy. This HDLC approach has been proposed in the space agency domain for their CCSDS protocols, as easier than the various existing and arcane IP-in-CCSDS encapsulations. A new IP-over-CCSDS space links workgroup: http://public.ccsds.org/sites/cwe/sis-ipo/default.aspx has been formed to discuss this, in a kind of parallel way to this IP-over-DVB IETF workgroup. This sapproach separates the layering quite cleanly. You'll find a description of the engineering advantages of layering an HDLC stream over your link in: K. Hogie, E. Criscuolo and R. Parise, Using standard Internet Protocols and applications in space, Computer Networks, special issue on Interplanetary Internet, vol. 47 no. 5, pp. 603-650, April 2005. ...which describes the HDLC-into-modem case (with a number of practical anecdotes) and proposes the HDLC-into-CCSDS-device case. One source for a copy of that paper is: http://www.uni-bamberg.de/wiai/ktr/html/lehre/2005ss/hauptsem/unterlagen/= hogie.pdf If you think of DVB-S2 as, like CCSDS, being a very complex link layer, this approach makes a lot of sense. L. > If you are interested on this subject, could you please manifest your > interest? > > best regards, > > Jerome Lacan > ENSICA/TeSA/LAAS-CNRS > Toulouse, France From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 07:45:20 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA08465 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:45:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DkhZp-00025n-C4 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:10:03 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LB9ZVd014265 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:09:35 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5LB9Yve014262 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:09:35 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from postfix3-2.free.fr (postfix3-2.free.fr [213.228.0.169]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LB7bl5014169 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:07:37 +0100 (BST) Received: from juju (bonnefoy-2-81-56-86-188.fbx.proxad.net [81.56.86.188]) by postfix3-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id ED9C7C0D0 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:07:34 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001101c57652$ca52d870$bc563851@juju> From: "Julien Fasson" To: References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> <6.1.2.0.0.20050621115605.01d83688@mailer.ing.unirc.it> Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:17:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5LB9ZVd014265 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear all, I will be glad to participate to this discussion too since I am working a bit on this topic. DVB-S2 seems to offer good perspectives for IP support, but it seems interesting to identify first the issues of IP integration, their differences with IP over DVB-S problems, and therefore the objectives of this discussion. Best Regards, ****************************************** ** Julien Fasson ** ** D=E9partement R=E9seaux et T=E9l=E9communications ** ** ENSEEIHT / Laboratoire IRIT ** ** Tel: 05 61 58 80 22 ** ** Email: julien.fasson@tesa.prd.fr ** ****************************************** From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 10:58:16 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27799 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 10:58:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dkkab-0007ca-6Y for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:23:02 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LESOF1019760 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:28:24 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5LESOxc019759 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:28:24 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from fmsfmr005.fm.intel.com (fmr15.intel.com [192.55.52.69]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LERkut019717 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 15:27:47 +0100 (BST) Received: from fmsfmr100.fm.intel.com (fmsfmr100.fm.intel.com [10.253.24.20]) by fmsfmr005.fm.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-outer.mc,v 1.1 2004/09/17 17:50:56 root Exp $) with ESMTP id j5LERepX023368 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:27:40 GMT Received: from fmsmsxvs040.fm.intel.com (fmsmsxvs040.fm.intel.com [132.233.42.124]) by fmsfmr100.fm.intel.com (8.12.10/8.12.10/d: major-inner.mc,v 1.2 2004/09/17 18:05:01 root Exp $) with SMTP id j5LERBhw025169 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 14:27:40 GMT Received: from fmsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com ([132.233.42.148]) by fmsmsxvs040.fm.intel.com (SAVSMTP 3.1.7.47) with SMTP id M2005062107274028554 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:27:40 -0700 Received: from fmsmsx404.amr.corp.intel.com ([132.233.42.208]) by fmsmsx332.amr.corp.intel.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.211); Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:27:40 -0700 x-mimeole: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7226.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: IP over DVB-S2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 07:27:40 -0700 Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C57632.7BA6D2A0"; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=SHA1 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: yes Thread-Topic: IP over DVB-S2 Thread-Index: AcV2UV6QvZsJ8GElQG6voI9zSOiZTwAG7Uuw From: "Shanbhogue, Vedvyas" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Jun 2005 14:27:40.0571 (UTC) FILETIME=[614A76B0:01C5766D] X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.44 X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 6907f330301e69261fa73bed91449a20 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C57632.7BA6D2A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Bernhard, I am quite interested in this discussion. sincerely, Vs -- Vedvyas Shanbhogue SSA, IPD o:(503) 677 - 6409, c:(503) 851 - 2088 -----Original Message----- From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk [mailto:owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk] On Behalf Of Bernhard Collini-Nocker Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 3:39 AM To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 Dear all, I guess in general most if not all participants of the ipdvb WG and this mailing list are interested in the topic, although ths topic is not specifically chartered in the ipdvb wg. In my view it would be a logical step to continue the discussions that have started from IP over fixed sized TS packets on IP over variable sized S2 frames... Gorry, do you think it is appropriate to continue the discussions on this mailing list? I would opt for in order to avoid opening another track of discussions on another mailing list... 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MIIBAAYLKoZIhvcNAQkQAgsxgfCgge0wgd4xHDAaBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWDXBraUBpbnRlbC5jb20x CzAJBgNVBAYTAlVTMQswCQYDVQQIEwJDQTEPMA0GA1UEBxMGRm9sc29tMRowGAYDVQQKExFJbnRl bCBDb3Jwb3JhdGlvbjE9MDsGA1UECxM0SW5mb3JtYXRpb24gVGVjaG5vbG9neSBFbnRlcnByaXNl IEJ1c2luZXNzIENvbXB1dGluZzE4MDYGA1UEAxMvSW50ZWwgQ29ycG9yYXRpb24gQmFzaWMgRW50 ZXJwcmlzZSBJc3N1aW5nIENBIDECClxtfvQAAAAAKJswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEgYBz+hbfDjCK yPqXWJrewWuxOYVfxAhUo3DE8TrZ8Omb9MYEK14KSdAoGRLda1ZIFHOt2VZqNRco8pp45pG0LEoi rmRLuSi7ZAm+/i8IESq9lvpfwMJXjrxa4t+oD2FwJkWnAnYYhFyUq9VHbjSBcxK/VXkrMgvh8/70 pay8IxDI0QAAAAAAAA== ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C57632.7BA6D2A0-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 11:48:15 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02606 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 11:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DklMz-0000hb-CE for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:13:03 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LFOies021153 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:24:44 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5LFOibP021152 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:24:44 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from nmta1.jpl.nasa.gov (nmta1.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.160.214]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LFO9wK021128 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=EDH-RSA-DES-CBC3-SHA bits=168 verify=NOT) for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 16:24:11 +0100 (BST) Received: from xmta2.jpl.nasa.gov (xmta2.jpl.nasa.gov [137.78.160.56]) by nmta1.jpl.nasa.gov (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5LFO1n0007422; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:24:02 -0700 Received: from hooke.jpl.nasa.gov (hookepc2.jpl.nasa.gov [137.79.10.110]) by xmta2.jpl.nasa.gov (Switch-3.1.7/Switch-3.1.7) with ESMTP id j5LFO0nD029394; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:24:01 -0700 Message-Id: <6.2.1.2.2.20050621074046.02d2b148@mail.jpl.nasa.gov> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.2.1.2 Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 08:24:00 -0700 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk From: "Adrian J. Hooke" Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 Cc: jerome.lacan@ensica.fr, "IP-over-CCSDS Links" In-Reply-To: References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_493255812==.ALT" X-Source-IP: hookepc2.jpl.nasa.gov [137.79.10.110] X-Source-Sender: adrian.j.hooke@jpl.nasa.gov X-AUTH: Internal IP X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a --=====================_493255812==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 04:02 AM 6/21/2005, Lloyd Wood of Cisco wrote: >This HDLC approach has been proposed in the space agency domain for their >CCSDS protocols, as easier than the various existing and arcane >IP-in-CCSDS encapsulations. "Easier" and "arcane" are subjective terms. The current four variants of internationally standardized space link protocols that are defined by the CCSDS Space Link Services Area http://public.ccsds.org/publications/default.aspx provide standard mechanisms for directly multiplexing variable-length IP packets into the link framing mechanisms, as well as a lightweight encapsulation mechanism http://public.ccsds.org/sites/cwe/rids/Lists/1331R3/Attachments/133x1r3.pdf that may be useful for carrying a variety of upper layer data units such as IPv6 (including jumbograms). The current standards also allow a serial stream to be carried point-to-point across a single link. The goal of the current BOF is to examine whether there is a need to more clearly and centrally define how these various IP transfer options operate. We would welcome a liaison relationship with the new IP over DVB-S2 study. Best regards Adrian J. Hooke Chairman, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group (CESG) NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Interplanetary Network Directorate Pasadena, California, USA --=====================_493255812==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable At 04:02 AM 6/21/2005, Lloyd Wood of Cisco wrote:
This HDLC approach has been proposed in the space agency domain for their CCSDS protocols, as easier than the various existing and arcane IP-in-CCSDS encapsulations.

"Easier" and "arcane" are subjective terms. The current four variants of internationally standardized space link protocols that are defined by the CCSDS Space Link Services Area http://public.ccsds.org/publications/default.aspx provide standard mechanisms for directly multiplexing variable-length IP packets into the link framing mechanisms, as well as a lightweight encapsulation mechanism http://public.ccsds.org/sites/cwe/rids/Lists/1331R3/Attachments/133x1r3.pdf= that may be useful for carrying a variety of upper layer data units such as IPv6 (including jumbograms). The current standards also allow a serial stream to be carried point-to-point across a single link. The goal of the current BOF is to examine whether there is a need to more clearly and centrally define how these various IP transfer options operate. We would welcome a liaison relationship with the new IP over DVB-S2 study.

Best regards

Adrian J. Hooke
Chairman, CCSDS Engineering Steering Group (CESG)
NASA Jet Propulsion Laboratory,
Interplanetary Network Directorate
Pasadena, California, USA
--=====================_493255812==.ALT-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Tue Jun 21 12:36:08 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA06368 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 12:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dkm7J-00023Q-60 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 13:00:56 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LG8iYo022215 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:08:44 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5LG8hBF022214 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:08:44 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from venezia.uab.es (venezia.uab.es [158.109.120.15]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5LG7uve022183 for ; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 17:07:58 +0100 (BST) Received: from venezia.uab.es ([127.0.0.1]) by venezia.uab.es (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.10 (built Jan 6 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IIF00K30ZK13780@venezia.uab.es> for ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:09:37 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([158.109.69.162]) by venezia.uab.es (Sun Java System Messaging Server 6.1 HotFix 0.10 (built Jan 6 2005)) with ESMTP id <0IIF00JWHZK15LI0@venezia.uab.es> for ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk; Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:09:37 +0200 (CEST) Date: Tue, 21 Jun 2005 18:13:33 +0200 From: Fausto Vieira Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 In-reply-to: <6.2.1.2.2.20050621074046.02d2b148@mail.jpl.nasa.gov> To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Message-id: <42B83CAD.6010709@sunaut.uab.es> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-Accept-Language: en-us, en References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> <6.2.1.2.2.20050621074046.02d2b148@mail.jpl.nasa.gov> User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Windows/20041206) X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5LG8iYo022215 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Due to the different length sizes for the data fields, clearly the first=20 objective is: - Support multiple IP packets in one data field. A not so obvious one is the support for packet segmentation. For me, I would be in favour of making this optional. When you have=20 large data fields, you loose at maximum 11999 bytes (8*MTU-1 bit). But of small data fields this is quite important. Of course, the delay could have important consequences. Imagine the=20 scenario where you transmit the first part of the packet in one data=20 field. In the next scheduler slot, the user is experiencing bad channel=20 conditions and if you transmit in the same data field, the user will=20 receive the packet corrupted. This would mean that by system design, the=20 segmented packets would need to be outside the mechanism that decides=20 the appropriate Coding and modulation rate. I don't know if I was very clear with this example. =20 --=20 Fausto Vieira Researcher Dpt. Telecomunicaci=F3 i d'Enginyeria de Sistemes ETSE - UNIVERSITAT AUT=D2NOMA DE BARCELONA Campus Universitari, s/n 08193 Bellatera Barcelona SPAIN Phone :(34) 935813843 Fax :(34) 935814031=20 From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 08:12:40 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA01791 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:12:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dl4U5-0005Rm-1P for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:37:38 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5MBhLsf018176 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:43:21 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5MBhLJG018175 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:43:21 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from mermoz.ensica.fr (hermes.ensica.fr [192.70.110.90]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5MBgcV2018149 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 12:42:38 +0100 (BST) Received: from miura2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mermoz.ensica.fr (8.10.2+Sun/jtpda-5.3.1) with ESMTP id j5MBhJP29309 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:43:19 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200506221143.j5MBhJP29309@mermoz.ensica.fr> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9r=F4me_Lacan?= To: Subject: RE: IP over DVB-S2 Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:42:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcV2fTmk9UHfBq2fQmeUxDCLdzVe+QAiZWrw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <42B83CAD.6010709@sunaut.uab.es> X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Due to the different length sizes for the data fields, > clearly the first objective is: > - Support multiple IP packets in one data field. Yes, it seems mandatory because the size of the Data Fields can be very large (until 58192 bits) compared to the IP packet length. > > A not so obvious one is the support for packet segmentation. > For me, I would be in favour of making this optional. When > you have large data fields, you loose at maximum 11999 bytes > (8*MTU-1 bit). > But of small data fields this is quite important. "11999 bits", it's better :-) Intuitively, on average, without segmentation, you should loose about half of the average length of an IP packet per Data field. For short Data Fields, it can be very important. > Of course, the delay could have important consequences. > Imagine the scenario where you transmit the first part of the > packet in one data field. In the next scheduler slot, the > user is experiencing bad channel conditions and if you > transmit in the same data field, the user will receive the > packet corrupted. > > This would mean that by system design, the > segmented packets would need to be outside the mechanism that > decides the appropriate Coding and modulation rate. I think that the segmentation is indeed one of the things that should be evaluated by taking into account all the parameters, including delays, probabilities of data field corruption, .... Jerome Lacan From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 08:50:34 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA05096 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 08:50:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dl54k-0006dE-1x for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 09:15:32 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5MCGipV019116 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:16:44 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5MCGi4H019115 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:16:44 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5MCGHbN019097 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:16:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42B95692.9070904@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:16:18 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Discussion on IP over DVB-S2 - References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> In-Reply-To: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5MCGipV019116 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I think DVB-S2 is a topic which seems related to the work of the ipdvb WG= , and=20 that there is probably sufficient expertise within this WG to discuss thi= s=20 (I've seen several responses already). I'd encourage three things: (i) This is an IETF mailing list - all contributions must adhere to the I= ETF=20 copyright rules, please do not introduce things that include IPR, unless = you=20 notify the IETF of this. (ii) This topic does not address a current Charter item of the ipdvb Work= ing=20 Group. The discussion of the topic on the list does NOT imply the willing= ness=20 of the IETF to standardise a new method. This is an IESG decision, that w= ould=20 require prior publication of an Internet Draft, and much discussion. (iii) I think we need to start with a requirement for what needs to be do= ne,=20 this would be useful to many in this WG. The normal way to contribute suc= h=20 documents is again, by publishing of an Internet-Draft on the topic. I do= =20 encourage you to do this. Best wishes, Gorry (ipdvb WG Chair) P.S. I am also interested in this topic. J=E9r=F4me Lacan wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > With our colleagues from Alcatel-Space, we are working on the mapping o= f IP > over DVB-S2. >=20 > Recall that DVB-S2 is the "second generation" DVB system for broadband > satellite service. It will probably replace DVB-S in the next few years. > You > can find the specifications in ETSI document - EN 302 307. >=20 > One of the main business targets of DVB-S2 is IP packet transmission. T= he > mapping/encapsulation of IP over this system remains an open research i= ssue. > Actually, DVB-S2 proposes 2 modes to transport the data. The first one, > Transport Stream-TS, is designed to transport MPEG2-TS packets whereas = the > second one, Generic Stream-GS, is designed to transport continuous stre= ams > (which can be compound of variable size packets). Regardless of the cho= sen > mode, the resulting data are then mapped on Data Fields (of length vary= ing > from 16008 to 58192 bits) to be encoded by the FEC (LDPC + BCH). >=20 > Several options can be considered for this mapping. We think that the i= pdvb > group is a good place to start a discussion on this subject. > If you are interested on this subject, could you please manifest your > interest? >=20 > best regards, >=20 > Jerome Lacan > ENSICA/TeSA/LAAS-CNRS > Toulouse, France >=20 >=20 From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jun 22 13:15:46 2005 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA03887 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:15:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dl9DT-0007qf-Ku for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 13:40:48 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5MGf1dB025552 for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:41:01 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5MGf1gh025551 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:41:01 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5MGeSHf025527 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:40:29 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42B9947D.3080103@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Jun 2005 17:40:29 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: IP over DVB-S2 References: <200506210806.j5L86GK16799@mermoz.ensica.fr> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5MGf1dB025552 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The article bu K. Hogie et al is interesting, but seems not to have taken= a=20 detailed look at DVB, specifically, I notice on page 661, section 4, it s= ays; "one of the most important issues in this paper is to note that unlike cu= rrent=20 space communication systems, commercial network products perform=20 forward-error-correction (FEC) coding, such as Reed-Solomon or convolutio= nal,=20 independently from the data link framing. This is..." - I don't believe this was true of DVB bearers, in which the R-S codec is= =20 synchronised using the MPEG-2 TS Synch byte, rather than embedding a=20 physical-layer synch word. - In DVB-S2, the waveform is more like a burst modulation. Two modes are=20 supported. One mode uses MPEG-2 TS formatting, the other mode (GS) could=20 utilise the BB frame header construct as the synchronisation point for a = new=20 encapsulation protocol directly mapping IP and other network protocols to= the=20 BB frame. The details of this have still to be defined. Gorry Lloyd Wood wrote: > On Tue, 21 Jun 2005, J=E9r=F4me Lacan wrote to the ipdvb mailing list: >=20 >=20 >>With our colleagues from Alcatel-Space, we are working on the >>mapping of IP over DVB-S2. >> >>Recall that DVB-S2 is the "second generation" DVB system for >>broadband satellite service. It will probably replace DVB-S in the >>next few years. You can find the specifications in ETSI document - >>EN 302 307. >> >>One of the main business targets of DVB-S2 is IP packet >>transmission. The mapping/encapsulation of IP over this system >>remains an open research issue. Actually, DVB-S2 proposes 2 modes to >>transport the data. The first one, Transport Stream-TS, is designed >>to transport MPEG2-TS packets whereas the second one, Generic >>Stream-GS, is designed to transport continuous streams (which can be >>compound of variable size packets). Regardless of the chosen mode, >>the resulting data are then mapped on Data Fields (of length varying >>from 16008 to 58192 bits) to be encoded by the FEC (LDPC + BCH). >> >>Several options can be considered for this mapping. We think that >>the ipdvb group is a good place to start a discussion on this >>subject. >=20 >=20 > One approach to transporting continuous streams is to carry a > continuous HDLC stream; once you come out of your DVB-S2-capable modem > the HDLC stream would be ready to go right into a serial port on any > router for the IP packets to be handled there -- and integrating > modem and router becomes easy. >=20 > This HDLC approach has been proposed in the space agency domain for > their CCSDS protocols, as easier than the various existing and arcane > IP-in-CCSDS encapsulations. A new IP-over-CCSDS space links workgroup: > http://public.ccsds.org/sites/cwe/sis-ipo/default.aspx > has been formed to discuss this, in a kind of parallel way to this > IP-over-DVB IETF workgroup. >=20 > This sapproach separates the layering quite cleanly. You'll find a > description of the engineering advantages of layering an HDLC stream > over your link in: >=20 > K. Hogie, E. Criscuolo and R. Parise, Using standard Internet > Protocols and applications in space, Computer Networks, special issue > on Interplanetary Internet, vol. 47 no. 5, pp. 603-650, April 2005. >=20 > ...which describes the HDLC-into-modem case (with a number of > practical anecdotes) and proposes the HDLC-into-CCSDS-device case. >=20 > One source for a copy of that paper is: > http://www.uni-bamberg.de/wiai/ktr/html/lehre/2005ss/hauptsem/unterlage= n/hogie.pdf >=20 > If you think of DVB-S2 as, like CCSDS, being a very complex link > layer, this approach makes a lot of sense. >=20 > L. >=20 >=20 >>If you are interested on this subject, could you please manifest your >>interest? >> >>best regards, >> >>Jerome Lacan >>ENSICA/TeSA/LAAS-CNRS >>Toulouse, France >=20 >=20 > >=20 >=20 From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Jun 24 10:04:17 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dlon3-0002vY-JV for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:04:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10762 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:04:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DlpBb-0002X1-7H for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:29:39 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5ODVATG020968 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:31:10 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5ODV9vt020967 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:31:09 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from mermoz.ensica.fr (mailhost.ensica.fr [192.70.110.90]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5ODUgw4020949 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 14:30:43 +0100 (BST) Received: from miura2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mermoz.ensica.fr (8.10.2+Sun/jtpda-5.3.1) with ESMTP id j5ODVPP26609 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:31:25 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200506241331.j5ODVPP26609@mermoz.ensica.fr> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9r=F4me_Lacan?= To: Subject: RE: Discussion on IP over DVB-S2 - Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:30:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcV3J0EgBgMQutM2Sbi1ZegvwoE5DABmL/ng X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <42B95692.9070904@erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean X-MIME-Autoconverted: from quoted-printable to 8bit by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5ODV8Lm020964 Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5ODVATG020968 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk=20 > [mailto:owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk] De la part de Gorry Fairhurst > Envoy=E9 : mercredi 22 juin 2005 14:16 > =C0 : ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk > Objet : Re: Discussion on IP over DVB-S2 - >=20 >=20 > I think DVB-S2 is a topic which seems related to the work of=20 > the ipdvb WG, and that there is probably sufficient expertise=20 > within this WG to discuss this (I've seen several responses already). >=20 > I'd encourage three things: >=20 > (i) This is an IETF mailing list - all contributions must=20 > adhere to the IETF copyright rules, please do not introduce=20 > things that include IPR, unless you notify the IETF of this. >=20 > (ii) This topic does not address a current Charter item of=20 > the ipdvb Working Group. The discussion of the topic on the=20 > list does NOT imply the willingness of the IETF to=20 > standardise a new method. This is an IESG decision, that=20 > would require prior publication of an Internet Draft, and=20 > much discussion. >=20 > (iii) I think we need to start with a requirement for what=20 > needs to be done, this would be useful to many in this WG.=20 > The normal way to contribute such documents is again, by=20 > publishing of an Internet-Draft on the topic. I do encourage=20 > you to do this. OK. I propose you to begin the preparation of this I-D. Is it possible to have an agenda slot at the next IETF meeting to present= it ?=20 Jerome >=20 > Best wishes, >=20 > Gorry > (ipdvb WG Chair) >=20 > P.S. I am also interested in this topic. >=20 > J=E9r=F4me Lacan wrote: >=20 > > Dear all, > >=20 > > With our colleagues from Alcatel-Space, we are working on=20 > the mapping=20 > > of IP over DVB-S2. > >=20 > > Recall that DVB-S2 is the "second generation" DVB system=20 > for broadband=20 > > satellite service. It will probably replace DVB-S in the=20 > next few years. > > You > > can find the specifications in ETSI document - EN 302 307. > >=20 > > One of the main business targets of DVB-S2 is IP packet=20 > transmission.=20 > > The mapping/encapsulation of IP over this system remains an=20 > open research issue. > > Actually, DVB-S2 proposes 2 modes to transport the data. The first=20 > > one, Transport Stream-TS, is designed to transport MPEG2-TS packets=20 > > whereas the second one, Generic Stream-GS, is designed to transport=20 > > continuous streams (which can be compound of variable size=20 > packets).=20 > > Regardless of the chosen mode, the resulting data are then=20 > mapped on=20 > > Data Fields (of length varying from 16008 to 58192 bits) to=20 > be encoded by the FEC (LDPC + BCH). > >=20 > > Several options can be considered for this mapping. We=20 > think that the=20 > > ipdvb group is a good place to start a discussion on this subject. > > If you are interested on this subject, could you please=20 > manifest your=20 > > interest? > >=20 > > best regards, > >=20 > > Jerome Lacan > > ENSICA/TeSA/LAAS-CNRS > > Toulouse, France > >=20 > >=20 >=20 From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Jun 24 10:59:21 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DlpeL-0002hu-3b for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:59:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA15967 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 10:59:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dlq2s-0004kk-95 for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:24:43 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OEQWPF022645 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:26:32 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5OEQWBm022644 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:26:32 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OEP1nT022567 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:25:02 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42BC17BE.8040200@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 15:25:02 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Re: Discussion on IP over DVB-S2 - References: <200506241331.j5ODVPP26609@mermoz.ensica.fr> In-Reply-To: <200506241331.j5ODVPP26609@mermoz.ensica.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >>(iii) I think we need to start with a requirement for what >>needs to be done, this would be useful to many in this WG. >>The normal way to contribute such documents is again, by >>publishing of an Internet-Draft on the topic. I do encourage >>you to do this. > > > OK. I propose you to begin the preparation of this I-D. > Is it possible to have an agenda slot at the next IETF meeting to present it > ? > > Jerome > Yes, no problem. Let me know what the name of the draft will be, as soon as you can.. I'm assuming you'll use a name draft-xxx-ipdvb-yyy-00.txt. Send an email choosing x= your name, and y= something appropriate, and I will add it to the Agenda. Gorry (ipdvb WG Chair) From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Fri Jun 24 11:30:26 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dlq8Q-0007XT-EL for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:30:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA17920 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:30:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DlqWx-00063R-Kl for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 11:55:49 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OF3EHg023849 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:03:14 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5OF3Eo2023848 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:03:14 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from mermoz.ensica.fr (mailhost.ensica.fr [192.70.110.90]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5OF1T9J023791 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 16:01:29 +0100 (BST) Received: from miura2 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mermoz.ensica.fr (8.10.2+Sun/jtpda-5.3.1) with ESMTP id j5OF2CP19226 for ; Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:02:12 +0200 (MEST) Message-Id: <200506241502.j5OF2CP19226@mermoz.ensica.fr> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?J=E9r=F4me_Lacan?= To: Subject: RE: Discussion on IP over DVB-S2 - Date: Fri, 24 Jun 2005 17:01:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 Thread-Index: AcV4yzJypKxfNV8rTzWR0eSmsKT7cwAAX5yQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 In-Reply-To: <42BC17BE.8040200@erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7bac9cb154eb5790ae3b2913587a40de Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I'm assuming you'll use a name draft-xxx-ipdvb-yyy-00.txt. > > Send an email choosing x= your name, and y= something > appropriate, and I will add it to the Agenda. ok, the name of the draft is draft-cantillo-ipdvb-S2encaps-00.txt Jerome From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jun 29 07:54:12 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Dnb8u-0002Zz-Gm for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:54:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA09022 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 07:54:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DnbYR-0001gt-9o for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:20:36 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5TBGTkv010821 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:29 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5TBGSjv010820 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:16:28 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5TBFGBl010772 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:15:18 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42C282C4.6070104@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:15:16 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : A Secure Extension for the Unidirectional Lightweight Encapsulation (ULE) protocol Author(s) : H. Cruickshank, et al. Filename : draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-00.txt Pages : Date : 2005-6-28 This document proposes a security framework for the Unidirectional- Lightweight Encapsulation (ULE) protocol. It provides threat analysis and defines the requirements for ULE security. It also proposes an extension format for the Unidirectional-Lightweight Encapsulation (ULE) protocol. This work is intended as a work item of the ipdvb WG, and contributions are sought from the IETF on this topic. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv at ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Wed Jun 29 08:28:45 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnbgL-0005Ou-64 for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:28:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA12844 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:28:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Dnc5s-0003Tr-GW for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 08:55:10 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5TBhaXp011749 for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:43:36 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5TBhZSV011748 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:43:36 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5TBgVjx011705 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:42:32 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42C28927.1030707@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Jun 2005 12:42:31 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: REPOST: I-D ACTION:draft-miloucheva-udlr-mipv6-00.txt Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by erg.abdn.ac.uk id j5TBhaXp011749 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d0bdc596f8dd1c226c458f0b4df27a88 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For you informatton, a related I-D which may be appropriate to our charte= r,=20 please send comments and questions to the ipdvb list and the authors. Best wishes, Gorry Fairhurst (ipdvb WG Chair) ---- A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct= ories. Title : Support of mobile nodes with unidirectional li= nks in MIPv6 Author(s) : I. Miloucheva, O. Menzel Filename : draft-miloucheva-udlr-mipv6-00.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2005-6-2 This document discusses mechanisms for dynamic establishment of bidirectional link layer connectivity of mobile nodes with unidirectional links in Mobile Ipv6 (MIPv6) environment. Requirements are derived from the need to support services in mobile Ipv6 based on unidirectional technologies, for instance Digital Video Broadcasting, using multicast protocols, such as Protocol Independent Multicast Routing =FB Sparse Mode (PIM-SM) and Multicast Listener Discovery (MLDv2). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-miloucheva-udlr-mipv6-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the usern= ame "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-miloucheva-udlr-mipv6-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-miloucheva-udlr-mipv6-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail rea= ders exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Thu Jun 30 07:07:37 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1DnwtN-0001Aw-Cd for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:07:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA28006 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1DnxIv-0006lK-Lp for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 07:34:03 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5UATFUJ013004 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:29:15 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5UATFQx013003 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:29:15 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from erg.abdn.ac.uk (gresley.erg.abdn.ac.uk [139.133.207.106]) (authenticated bits=0) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5UASm8d012983 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:28:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <42C3C960.4020108@erg.abdn.ac.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:28:48 +0100 From: Gorry Fairhurst Organization: Univesrity of Aberdeen User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC Mac OS X Mach-O; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: 63rd IETF Meeting Paris 31st July - 5th August 2005 - Draft agenda ipdvb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit The 63rd IETF Meeting is being held in Paris this Summer during the period of 31st July - 5th August 2005. The web page for this event is: http://www.ietf.org/meetings/IETF-63.html Please find below the draft Agenda for the ipdvb WG to be held at IETF-63. I encourage as many people as possible in this working group to come to this event - particularly if you come from Europe, since the IETF only infrequently meets in Europe, so this is an excellent opportunity to come and participate (or watch if you prefer). The meeting is open to all! If you wish add to this Agenda, please do send any new items to me as soon as possible, and preferably by the close of the 7th July. Best wishes, Gorry (ipdvb WG Chair) gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk ------ IP over Digital Video Broadcast (ipdvb) WG XXX, August X, 2005 Internet Area ******** Draft Agenda ******** 1. Agenda Bashing (5 minutes) - Chair * Agenda changes * Election of Scribe for Proceedings * Jabber Scribe 2. Document Status (10 minutes) - Chair * Documents in Last Call - None. * Documents in IESG Review - None. draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-06 (Proposed Standard) Assignment of DVB/ATSC/SMPTE code-points * Documents in RFC Editor Queue draft-ietf-ipdvb-arch-04 (Informational) * Published RFCs None. 3. Address Resolution (15 minutes) - M-J Montpetit/G Fairhurst http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-00.txt * L2 Resolution * L3 Resolution: ND, UDLR, etc. 4. IP Address Configuration for ipdvb (10 minutes) - M Stiemerling http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stiemerling-ipdvb-config-00.txt * Requirements and scenarios 5. ULE Security Extension (20 minutes) - Haitham Cruikshank http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-00.txt * Rationale * Security Header Extension proposal 6. IP encapsulation for DVB-S2 (15 minutes) - Jerome Lacan (proposed noname: draft-cantillo-ipdvb-S2encaps-00.txt * No current I-D, timeslot subject to issue of draft. 7. Review of Milestones (10 minutes) - Chair 8. A.O.B. Archive: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ipdvb/archive Other related drafts: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bormann-rohc-over-802-01.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-montpetit-ipdvb-config-00.txt http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-miloucheva-udlr-mipv6-00.txt From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Thu Jun 30 11:54:40 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Do1NA-0005EQ-Cd for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:54:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26827 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 11:54:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Do1mx-000605-1y for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 12:21:19 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5UFEgXc020654 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:14:42 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5UFEfm6020651 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:14:41 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de (kyoto.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.21]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5UFDH4m020592; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:13:17 +0100 (BST) Received: from [195.37.70.131] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 83EF61BAC4D; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:13:12 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:13:06 +0200 From: Martin Stiemerling To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk, Gorry Fairhurst Subject: Re: 63rd IETF Meeting Paris 31st July - 5th August 2005 - Draft agenda ipdvb Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <42C3C960.4020108@erg.abdn.ac.uk> References: <42C3C960.4020108@erg.abdn.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="==========E063E01A9741A2CE2C79==========" X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68ba2b07ef271dba6ee42a93832cfa4c --==========E063E01A9741A2CE2C79========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Gorry, Thanks for the presentation slot at the next IPDVB meeting. I'm going to submit the updated version of the address configuration draft by tonight. Best wishes, Martin --On Donnerstag, 30. Juni 2005 11:28 Uhr +0100 Gorry Fairhurst=20 wrote: | | The 63rd IETF Meeting is being held in Paris this Summer during the | period of 31st July - 5th August 2005. The web page for this event is: | http://www.ietf.org/meetings/IETF-63.html | | Please find below the draft Agenda for the ipdvb WG to be held at = IETF-63. | | I encourage as many people as possible in this working group to come to | this event - particularly if you come from Europe, since the IETF only | infrequently meets in Europe, so this is an excellent opportunity to come | and participate (or watch if you prefer). The meeting is open to all! | | If you wish add to this Agenda, please do send any new items to me as | soon as possible, and preferably by the close of the 7th July. | | Best wishes, | | Gorry | (ipdvb WG Chair) | gorry@erg.abdn.ac.uk | | | ------ | | IP over Digital Video Broadcast (ipdvb) WG | | XXX, August X, 2005 | Internet Area | | ******** Draft Agenda ******** | | 1. Agenda Bashing (5 minutes) - Chair | * Agenda changes | * Election of Scribe for Proceedings | * Jabber Scribe | | 2. Document Status (10 minutes) - Chair | * Documents in Last Call - None. | * Documents in IESG Review - None. | draft-ietf-ipdvb-ule-06 (Proposed Standard) | Assignment of DVB/ATSC/SMPTE code-points | * Documents in RFC Editor Queue | draft-ietf-ipdvb-arch-04 (Informational) | * Published RFCs | None. | | 3. Address Resolution (15 minutes) - M-J Montpetit/G Fairhurst | http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipdvb-ar-00.txt | * L2 Resolution | * L3 Resolution: ND, UDLR, etc. | | 4. IP Address Configuration for ipdvb (10 minutes) - M Stiemerling | http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-stiemerling-ipdvb-config-00.txt | * Requirements and scenarios | | 5. ULE Security Extension (20 minutes) - Haitham Cruikshank | http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-cruickshank-ipdvb-sec-00.txt | * Rationale | * Security Header Extension proposal | | 6. IP encapsulation for DVB-S2 (15 minutes) - Jerome Lacan | (proposed noname: draft-cantillo-ipdvb-S2encaps-00.txt | * No current I-D, timeslot subject to issue of draft. | | 7. Review of Milestones (10 minutes) - Chair | | 8. A.O.B. | | Archive: http://www.erg.abdn.ac.uk/ipdvb/archive | | Other related drafts: | http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-bormann-rohc-over-802-01.txt | http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-montpetit-ipdvb-config-00.txt | http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-miloucheva-udlr-mipv6-00.txt | | --==========E063E01A9741A2CE2C79========== Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIFggYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIFczCCBW8CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3 DQEHAaCCAwYwggMCMIICa6ADAgECAgMPATswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwYjELMAkG A1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4x LDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4X DTA1MDYyNDA5MjczMFoXDTA2MDYyNDA5MjczMFowbjEUMBIGA1UEBBMLU3RpZW1l cmxpbmcxDzANBgNVBCoTBk1hcnRpbjEbMBkGA1UEAxMSTWFydGluIFN0aWVtZXJs aW5nMSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlzdGllbWVybGluZ0BuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMIIB IjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAyHSp3FsKkHJPKmDfsbxcMUia nWa3/c1AE2LKJJE3tofAd2b7+vF28oNGbeLBusoEBAfqWaHaaUZ4DVrDmO23VDm/ RDQmABwFfnW73tKsfCY2pIokvAo1b9av1usY+5hSIN9kHWzis75AYvxawPBvCqSZ 8po7D5KXI9ftfHRxvb2PVco0FMU53xJBBMI3Cq8XxmrpGDSPz1yZvrBMdp4t/YA6 6ByMfE6pf43TcI0kMNafk6lD9vFFD18J+D/467AlsKdV1yizlHH0Qq3Dt6jMdpPW thVHw47ATYmYNXndoIhKCX/g3WVG6327T0fhlvoOdJ7efX+fRVL7m7lXYLx9KQID AQABozYwNDAkBgNVHREEHTAbgRlzdGllbWVybGluZ0BuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMAwG A1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAvGwas8VChR/4Hb7OIUxC5+Vn UebD6dwNImPuw2irUfl3crmD8qs1g6KJ0Cl4JLNkBsY+pMk1E1lmJe5b8nPhp0xB aYuf5yQXIFZzbZjCNFMaSlCasMQ+bi3HRRkcmw3q86MsWjkBKu4GI4MpVJb4AfSs E6uT5IwUGtyXfRPsnlkxggJEMIICQAIBATBpMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYD VQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3 dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIDDwE7MAkGBSsOAwIaBQCg gbEwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMDUw NjMwMTUxMzA2WjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUnQD15opw19rFa8I7nydRcNL1Mvkw UgYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMUUwQzAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYI KoZIhvcNAwICAUAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEB BQAEggEAC6A4p9SxYamZpy4kRCCc8qhNmX9ZTk3Zm+nWA8pZkhcSjhZZ8iHmtLbq M/bZjrp88WyebILze8NqgmfkH76cPDyISR9Ze9VASomp55ErHnCiMb0WPaM/RRBf 9oUkKwzWuh13usVUCeUN6AoUacBmD1ebGMzCnf4om2KgVDgKTix5zBB9FF75MCWO uvANH3DDju/0d+IkxtaJVgCa56hjeh3vZWCfR62QdD8ToeoDTlMdIQI8eLQXgWL7 dqy1pi2Fp1EtFqOioDA7wLdZ5jPPrmMGsSfrVNwlnOY0rPBw+z7U+vcfj/8jtDEj 7+suZoyKFearOvK0KKhWw/Q+klxgfg== --==========E063E01A9741A2CE2C79==========-- From owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Thu Jun 30 16:41:29 2005 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Do5qf-0008U3-Kp for ipdvb-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:41:26 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA21800 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 16:41:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk ([139.133.204.77] helo=erg.abdn.ac.uk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Do6GT-0003NU-WE for ipdvb-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 17:08:07 -0400 Received: from mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5UKENYw027457 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:14:23 +0100 (BST) Received: (from majordomo.lists@localhost) by mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.2/Submit) id j5UKENN5027456 for ipdvb-subscribed-users; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:14:23 +0100 (BST) X-Authentication-Warning: mavis.erg.abdn.ac.uk: majordomo.lists set sender to owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk using -f Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de (kyoto.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.21]) by erg.abdn.ac.uk (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id j5UKDXVS027420 for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 21:13:33 +0100 (BST) Received: from [195.37.70.131] (p54ACA2C7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.172.162.199]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8651BAC9E for ; Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:13:29 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 30 Jun 2005 22:06:22 +0200 From: Martin Stiemerling To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Subject: Updated draft about address configuration in IPDVB Message-ID: <4D6E5FF2B7FCED0506662045@753F3B888A9969457862729D> X-Mailer: Mulberry/3.1.6 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; boundary="==========5ED9AF3EBC86F8BA9F6E==========" X-ERG-MailScanner: Found to be clean, Found to be clean Sender: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-ERG-MailScanner-From: owner-ipdvb@erg.abdn.ac.uk X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b4a0a5f5992e2a4954405484e7717d8c --==========5ED9AF3EBC86F8BA9F6E========== Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, I have submitted an updated version of the "Problem Statement: IP Address Configuration for IPDVB" (draft-stiemerling-ipdvb-config-01.txt) to the I-D repository. You can find the draft at this location before it will appear in the I-D repository: A html version is available here and a diff version between the -00 and -01 is available here too Regards, Martin Stiemerling NEC Europe Ltd. -- Network Laboratories stiemerling@netlab.nec.de PGP Key at: http://www.stiemerling.org/stiemerling_nec.gpg WWW: http://www.netlab.nec.de --==========5ED9AF3EBC86F8BA9F6E========== Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIIFggYJKoZIhvcNAQcCoIIFczCCBW8CAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMAsGCSqGSIb3 DQEHAaCCAwYwggMCMIICa6ADAgECAgMPATswDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQAwYjELMAkG A1UEBhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4x LDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4X DTA1MDYyNDA5MjczMFoXDTA2MDYyNDA5MjczMFowbjEUMBIGA1UEBBMLU3RpZW1l cmxpbmcxDzANBgNVBCoTBk1hcnRpbjEbMBkGA1UEAxMSTWFydGluIFN0aWVtZXJs aW5nMSgwJgYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhlzdGllbWVybGluZ0BuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMIIB IjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAyHSp3FsKkHJPKmDfsbxcMUia nWa3/c1AE2LKJJE3tofAd2b7+vF28oNGbeLBusoEBAfqWaHaaUZ4DVrDmO23VDm/ RDQmABwFfnW73tKsfCY2pIokvAo1b9av1usY+5hSIN9kHWzis75AYvxawPBvCqSZ 8po7D5KXI9ftfHRxvb2PVco0FMU53xJBBMI3Cq8XxmrpGDSPz1yZvrBMdp4t/YA6 6ByMfE6pf43TcI0kMNafk6lD9vFFD18J+D/467AlsKdV1yizlHH0Qq3Dt6jMdpPW thVHw47ATYmYNXndoIhKCX/g3WVG6327T0fhlvoOdJ7efX+fRVL7m7lXYLx9KQID AQABozYwNDAkBgNVHREEHTAbgRlzdGllbWVybGluZ0BuZXRsYWIubmVjLmRlMAwG A1UdEwEB/wQCMAAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEEBQADgYEAvGwas8VChR/4Hb7OIUxC5+Vn UebD6dwNImPuw2irUfl3crmD8qs1g6KJ0Cl4JLNkBsY+pMk1E1lmJe5b8nPhp0xB aYuf5yQXIFZzbZjCNFMaSlCasMQ+bi3HRRkcmw3q86MsWjkBKu4GI4MpVJb4AfSs E6uT5IwUGtyXfRPsnlkxggJEMIICQAIBATBpMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYD VQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3 dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIDDwE7MAkGBSsOAwIaBQCg gbEwGAYJKoZIhvcNAQkDMQsGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAcBgkqhkiG9w0BCQUxDxcNMDUw NjMwMjAwNjIyWjAjBgkqhkiG9w0BCQQxFgQUukzvwr9mPrCR1iTgYvXwL/3t6Uww UgYJKoZIhvcNAQkPMUUwQzAKBggqhkiG9w0DBzAOBggqhkiG9w0DAgICAIAwDQYI KoZIhvcNAwICAUAwBwYFKw4DAgcwDQYIKoZIhvcNAwICASgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEB BQAEggEAdwC+xb9LSQuAFDqU5o0p87NwbW+KUuKQbsMmwWI+Z4E0Ky1qNTNZ8gph wQ9sk7VWFx9NMkIcKmIUIB456SthYVThd1E7c57uzCgNRSy9mP5TSEGFSUF3r2Y2 rrY8zHaGbUx1wMGWTMxZoXAcozI/erwhzsCDx05X8HVcq6qwoK8/IscdMmajVK4e MdyE03r+8ja2uGZNi/FjSrqU0H6IRZP3gAT3LJ39urF0cpdIzF1DKGa1i+10fryP U4tK13NEdLPCrCuiQi5bzFgDioa623d+fJy4I7LuA4e3pjMI31TfFd00ah/IMLXO fvPdbACjh4e9O29ewZJWtkbSwYnSIg== --==========5ED9AF3EBC86F8BA9F6E==========--