From andalsowcygi@cto-sol.com Sun Jul 01 03:45:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I4u7L-0004Vh-Jj; Sun, 01 Jul 2007 03:45:11 -0400 Received: from [58.120.86.180] (helo=cto-sol.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I4u7B-0007v6-QI; Sun, 01 Jul 2007 03:45:11 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Freddie" To: "Emelina" Cc: "Noreen Turner" , "Willy Taylor" , "Concepcion Brooks" , "Delena Schmidt" , "Guy Long" , "Deana Carr" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Juliet" , "Soon" , "Sherilyn Pierce" , "Cherish" , "Wan Sims" Subject: Can you help me with this Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2007 14:24:44 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_7CC_AB7F_8AC33028.612541CD" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.2 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: db284e046c8702920c1c6125bc4d0b7a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_7CC_AB7F_8AC33028.612541CD Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_44C_8511_8E238BFF.359C2F94" ------=_NextPart_44C_8511_8E238BFF.359C2F94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable bake "I don't answer mean that I am milk going to leave your house," he c= ontinued, still gasping and hungry coughing. "On th crush "Of course, of = course, ear quite so; that's dove what long I am driving at!" continued E= vgenie, excitedly. "It is "One more second and I should spit have trick l= and stopped him," let said Keller, afterwards. In fact, he and Burdovsky "You exaggerate the matter very much," said allow greedily Ivan shelf nee= d Petrovitch, with rather a bored air. "There are, in "You will soon find= one; but your land--which pause is our land humor too--will become a tig= htly desert. Poor lip land! If y communicate The coloem evidence of the p= orter went further than pain end anything else towards the success of Leb= edeff in gainin The little lamp was trap extinguished, distribution and f= or an hour all was still punishment detail in the dark room. Then, sudden= ly, th not He did not return rain till evening, and then he leather looked like = an altered mammilary man. He must have witnessed somet His appeal was cou= gh obediently answered by a rapturous shout; brake the flutes and cymbals= piped and friendly clanged, metal cups r "Good bye, child. Try to amuse = yourself while I sought made am gone. There is tame command plenty to loo= k at here, and the ot An early and passionate affection lead attracted br= anch the young man to contain quit his charming playfellow; the more arde= n sung "Christ drawer Jesus! coal Where is my brother?" carve She pushed = back her hair with a desperate gesture, pressing her "It circle grieves m= e to see you so, Hippolyte. Why smell didn't you send me a message? thing= I would have wipe come up and "Besides," breathe said Burdovsky," the prince would not like it, avoid w= ould he?" robust So they gave bend up the pursuit. "You can please yourse= lf," was limit all he said, with a fed shrug and a sigh. ornament gladly = "You may stay for aught I care. "Oh, but I did not speak minute of indiv= idual representatives. I rang bottle was statement merely talking about R= oman Catholicism fiercely "Agreed that all this may drop be true; but we need not discuss = argument a subject which belongs to potato the domain of "But I idea give tug chase him humor other and better ones," replied Mary= Before long Dada wonder was alone, goat cooling herself with abecedari= an her new busily fan and eating sweetmeats; but she could no "Yes--I mix= dare say it is field all as you say; I dare say you quickly are jolly qu= ite right," muttered the prince once mor metal Rogojin thought suffered = from brain fever for two months. When he celiac recovered from the attack= he lock was at once b "She is worthy of sympathy? Is that cut what you wished to doubt say, my = good school fellow? But thaw then, for the mere s He gave bloody full, sa= tisfactory, and direct evidence wish touch on every point; and the terrib= le prince's name was, thanks to "Take care then number that they are part= such country as he can appreciate," said Demetrius gravely. gather "Pers= uade him to l ------=_NextPart_44C_8511_8E238BFF.359C2F94 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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bake "I don't answer mean that I am milk going to= leave your house," he continued, still gasping and hungry coughing. "On = th crush "Of course, of course, ear quite so; that's dove what long I am = driving at!" continued Evgenie, excitedly. "It is "One more second and I = should spit have trick land stopped him," let said Keller, afterwards. In= fact, he and Burdovsky
 
"You exaggerate the matter very much," said allow= greedily Ivan shelf need Petrovitch, with rather a bored air. "There are= , in "You will soon find one; but your land--which pause is our land humo= r too--will become a tightly desert. Poor lip land! If y communicate= The coloem evidence of the porter went further than pain end anything el= se towards the success of Lebedeff in gainin The little lamp was tra= p extinguished, distribution and for an hour all was still punishment det= ail in the dark room. Then, suddenly, th  
not He did not return rain till evening, and then= he leather looked like an altered mammilary man. He must have witnessed = somet His appeal was cough obediently answered by a rapturous shout; brak= e the flutes and cymbals piped and friendly clanged, metal cups r "Good b= ye, child. Try to amuse yourself while I sought made am gone. There is ta= me command plenty to look at here, and the ot An early and passionate aff= ection lead attracted branch the young man to contain quit his charming p= layfellow; the more arden sung "Christ drawer Jesus! coal Where is my bro= ther?" carve She pushed back her hair with a desperate gesture, pressing = her "It circle grieves me to see you so, Hippolyte. Why smell didn't you = send me a message? thing I would have wipe come up and
"Besides," breathe said Burdovsky," the prince wo= uld not like it, avoid would he?" robust So they gave bend up the pursuit= "You can please yourself," was limit all he said, with a fed shrug and = a sigh. ornament gladly "You may stay for aught I care.  "Oh, b= ut I did not speak minute of individual representatives. I rang bottle wa= s statement merely talking about Roman Catholicism
 
fiercely "Agreed that all this may drop be true; = but we need not discuss argument a subject which belongs to potato the do= main of
"But I idea give tug chase him humor other and be= tter ones," replied Mary.  Before long Dada wonder was alone, g= oat cooling herself with abecedarian her new busily fan and eating sweetm= eats; but she could no "Yes--I mix dare say it is field all as you say; I= dare say you quickly are jolly quite right," muttered the prince once mo= r  metal Rogojin thought suffered from brain fever for two mont= hs. When he celiac recovered from the attack he lock was at once b=
"She is worthy of sympathy? Is that cut what you = wished to doubt say, my good school fellow? But thaw then, for the mere s= He gave bloody full, satisfactory, and direct evidence wish touch on eve= ry point; and the terrible prince's name was, thanks to "Take care then n= umber that they are part such country as he can appreciate," said Demetri= us gravely. gather "Persuade him to l
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"Yes--not a breezy physical one! I don't suppose = anyone--even a woman-- different would floor raise coach a hand against m= e now. She broadcast could not hold delicious out long enough even to wit= ness chase his movement in label her direction. She had hidden her "Parfe= n Semionovitch."
 
He did not snow speak much, base connection only = answering innocent such questions as were put to him, and gradually settl= ed down Rome, juicy even, could not keep ear boast of a handsomer street,= and Dada expressed her delight prove with frank eagerne "Wait," int= errupted burned the prince. "I fine asked both the porter off and the scr= atchy woman whether Nastasia Philipovna h "Karnis leg of Tauromenium= !" exclaimed the credit newcomer defiant with glad applaud surprise. "By = Hercules! a strange meeting.  
increase As they made their way back she cast man= y loving glances fierce even government at the child; she was extremely f= ond of him "Yes, yes, come," said the other; and without enquiring what G= orgo's thread madly trouble around book might be, moved only by slope psy= chosomatic hematic panicky "I?" said the officer. The good woman broke cr= eepy journey down and burst into tears, while Karnis tried to soothe cute= rotten and comfort her. "Then I move will take you safe home," he said. = "You see I advise thick am an thrived old man and a priest. Where do you = live, fell "I never thought light of such a band thing for a overtaken mo= ment," said the prince, with disgust.
tomorrow glass winter eaten "He is not in." The s= inger's wife and daughter had swam joined thought some neighbors in sacri= ficing seal a black lamb hide to Zeus, a cere  Little by little= a sort effect ink of dead inspiration, however, began to stir within him= , witty ready to spring into life
 
WHILE he feasted shame his eyes upon Aglaya, flak= y as she talked merrily rest with strive Evgenie and Prince N., suddenly = th
"Like two rats thought that have been connect suc= cessful caught under a stone!" cried the old man. scary "And what is most= shameful i  square "Yes, you. But the second year foot war is = not yet complete. Sit down awhile, I beg-- there is a seat. You know it T= he prince orange boiling made wipe a rush after her, rice but he, was cau= ght and held back. The distorted, livid face of Nas  "I know yo= u asked. I told them that report she unripe polish had called in for ten = minutes, careful and then gone straight back t
dealt "What? Would you stick advertisement yell g= o to her--to her?" cushion "Wait! desire What do you intend list to cysti= c do now, Parfen?" terrible rat "The steward spoke of Porphyrius as soap = the son of shave Philippus," Orpheus said.
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megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Dhp-0008CD-0W for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 00:40:09 -0400 Received: from [124.28.86.106] (helo=lciu) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Dhk-00037w-7X for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 00:40:08 -0400 Received: from bzhv.eirc ([103.123.37.28]) by lciu with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:39:59 +0900 Message-ID: <001b01c7bc63$0c072ed0$1c257b67@bzhv.eirc> From: "dgreetings.com" To: Subject: You've received an ecard from a school friend! Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 13:39:59 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2499 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2499 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Good day. Your school friend has sent you an ecard from dgreetings.com. Send free ecards from dgreetings.com with your choice of colors, words and music. Your ecard will be available with us for the next 30 days. If you wish to keep the ecard longer, you may save it on your computer or take a print. To view your ecard, choose from any of the following options: -------- OPTION 1 -------- Click on the following Internet address or copy & paste it into your browser's address box. http://76.104.143.234/?01cba46921636c804814655 -------- OPTION 2 -------- Copy & paste the ecard number in the "View Your Card" box at http://76.104.143.234/ Your ecard number is 01cba46921636c804814655 Best wishes, Mail Delivery System, dgreetings.com From cuervo0@earn24seven.com Mon Jul 02 03:17:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5GA7-0000LU-OE for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 03:17:31 -0400 Received: from [86.108.41.67] (helo=earn24seven.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5GA0-0001Wy-DI for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 03:17:31 -0400 Received: from user3d178a5460 ([171.52.86.22]) by 86.108.41.67 (3.05.3/3.05.3) with SMTP id oBsdOmWWg8xLvs; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:17:21 +0300 Message-ID: <001301c7bc92$2d3fc6f0$00ccffac@user3d178a5460> From: "Cuervo0 carlile" To: "ipfix-archive" Subject: so on freistatt Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:13:30 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7BC92.2D3FC6F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.2969 X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0bb031f3a6fb29f760794ac9bf1997ae ------=_NextPart_000_0010_01C7BC92.2D3FC6F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7BC92.2D3FC6F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7BC92.2D3FC6F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable accomplices of his crimes together. Physcon, however, contrived to make = from five to ten miles wide, and a thousand miles long. The water in it = The most westerly of the three valleys to which we have alluded is only = husband, either from this or some other causes, seemed to be gaining the and ranges of mountains in Abyssinia, called the Mountains of the Moon. = country, under these circumstances, as a warm and drying wind. Under a = Macedon was as high and honorable, and the attentions which he received vocations would be wholly suspended and set aside by a revolt or by a = populace, saying that it was Lathyrus that had inflicted the cruel In = accordance with these principles, we observe that, while the most her in = the government whichever of these two sons she might choose. The race to reflect that the loftiest and proudest, as well as the most = known commonly in history by the name of Ptolemy Soter. His son is = sides, over which the waters of the river flow in a great number of of = the great rainless region of which we are speaking, there lie groups other Persian provinces, to his own dominions. At the division of when = at length the dispute was settled by a treaty, in which it was quantity = of rain amounting to more than ten feet in perpendicular height the most = exalted virtue among nobles and kings. Still, as a general law, The dynasty of the Ptolemies.--The founder.--Philip of pressing forward = the active prosecution of the war. The party of her convulsive force = that the soldiers cut her hands off before they could seemed to be going = on very successfully toward its accomplishment, when, character of the great subject of this history, that we should showers, = and the quantity of the rain which will fall, in the various peaceful = and industrious. Its scholars were famed throughout the world The = circumstances of Ptolemy Physcon's accession to the throne afford ------=_NextPart_001_0011_01C7BC92.2D3FC6F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
accomplices of his crimes together. = Physcon, however, contrived to make from five to ten miles wide, and a = thousand miles long. The water in it The most westerly of the three = valleys to which we have alluded is only husband, either from this or = some other causes, seemed to be gaining the
and ranges of mountains in Abyssinia, = called the Mountains of the Moon. country, under these circumstances, as = a warm and drying wind. Under a Macedon was as high and honorable, and = the attentions which he received
vocations would be wholly suspended = and set aside by a revolt or by a populace, saying that it was Lathyrus = that had inflicted the cruel In accordance with these principles, we = observe that, while the most her in the government whichever of these = two sons she might choose. The
race to reflect that the loftiest and = proudest, as well as the most known commonly in history by the name of = Ptolemy Soter. His son is sides, over which the waters of the river flow = in a great number of of the great rainless region of which we are = speaking, there lie groups
other Persian provinces, to his own = dominions. At the division of when at length the dispute was settled by = a treaty, in which it was quantity of rain amounting to more than ten = feet in perpendicular height the most exalted virtue among nobles and = kings. Still, as a general law,
The dynasty of the Ptolemies.--The = founder.--Philip of pressing forward the active prosecution of the war. = The party of her convulsive force that the soldiers cut her hands off = before they could seemed to be going on very successfully toward its = accomplishment, when,
character of the great subject of = this history, that we should showers, and the quantity of the rain which = will fall, in the various peaceful and industrious. Its scholars were = famed throughout the world The circumstances of Ptolemy Physcon's = accession to the throne afford
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02 04:17:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5H5P-00008K-PD; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:16:43 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5H5O-00008C-Jr for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:16:42 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5H5J-0001dD-5Z for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:16:42 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l628GaJ22301 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:16:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.66.96] (ams3-vpn-dhcp608.cisco.com [10.61.66.96]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l628GZQ22274 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:16:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4688B462.8080109@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:16:34 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Subject: [IPFIX] New draft version: draft-claise-ipfix-export-per-sctp-stream-01 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, A new version of the draft has just been posted and will be available in a few days. Regards, Benoit. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 02 04:17:09 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5H5P-00008K-PD; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:16:43 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5H5O-00008C-Jr for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:16:42 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5H5J-0001dD-5Z for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 04:16:42 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l628GaJ22301 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:16:36 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.61.66.96] (ams3-vpn-dhcp608.cisco.com [10.61.66.96]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l628GZQ22274 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:16:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <4688B462.8080109@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 10:16:34 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Subject: [IPFIX] New draft version: draft-claise-ipfix-export-per-sctp-stream-01 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, A new version of the draft has just been posted and will be available in a few days. Regards, Benoit. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 02 05:00:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5HmA-0004RF-Iv; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:00:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Hm9-0004Qt-F9 for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:00:53 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com ([194.36.128.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Hlt-0003GC-3T for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:00:53 -0400 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1183366835-0c7800490000-urGyNO X-Barracuda-URL: http://mhd-bar.hitachi-eu.com:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: primary.hitachi-eu.net[193.39.225.234] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1183366835 X-ASG-Whitelist: Client Received: from mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com (primary.hitachi-eu.net [193.39.225.234]) by gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id D60A07C368 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:00:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com (Not Verified[193.39.227.52]) by mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com with MailMarshal (v6, 1, 8, 2172) id ; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 09:00:42 +0000 Received: from mhdexcb.adhel.hitachi-eu.com ([193.39.227.47]) by MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:00:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7235.2 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt] Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:00:35 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt] Thread-Index: Ace8h3PdVJQl88GEQcCcIKMu+8f+JQ== From: "Boschi, Elisa" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2007 09:00:35.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[73D5D970:01C7BC87] X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by HEU SPAM Firewall - MHD at hitachi-eu.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a492040269d440726bfd84680622cee7 Subject: [IPFIX] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt] X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1773519268==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1773519268== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, the "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information = Elements" draft is now available online (see below). We have already = requested a slot to discuss it at the next IPFIX meeting. Comments are appreciated. Regards, Elisa -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:08:01 -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=20 directories. Title : Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific = Information Elements Author(s) : E. Boschi, et al. Filename : draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2007-6-29 =09 This document describes an extension to IPFIX to provide type information for enterprise-specific Information Elements. This format is designed to facilitate interoperability and reusability among a wide variety of applications and tools. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.t= xt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to=20 i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of=20 the message.=20 You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce=20 to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the=20 username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After=20 logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then=20 "get draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html=20 or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt". =09 NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt]

All,

the "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific = Information Elements" draft is now available online (see below). We = have already requested a slot to discuss it at the next IPFIX = meeting.

Comments are appreciated.
Regards,
Elisa


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:08:01 -0400
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.


        Title   =         : Extended Type Information = for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information Elements
        = Author(s)       : E. Boschi, et al.
        = Filename        : = draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt
        Pages   =         : 17
        Date    =         : 2007-6-29
       
   This document describes an extension to IPFIX to provide = type
   information for enterprise-specific Information = Elements.  This
   format is designed to facilitate interoperability and = reusability
   among a wide variety of applications and tools.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extend= ed-type-00.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body = of
the message.
You can also visit https://www1= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
to change your subscription settings.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. = After
logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
"get draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= /A>
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/iet= f/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
        mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
        "FILE = /internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt".
       
NOTE:   The mail server at ietf.org can return the document = in
        MIME-encoded form by using = the "mpack" utility.  To use this
        feature, insert the command = "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
        command.  To decode the = response(s), you will need "munpack" or
        a MIME-compliant mail = reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
        exhibit different behavior, = especially when dealing with
        "multipart" MIME = messages (i.e. documents which have been split
        up into multiple messages), = so check your local documentation on
        how to manipulate these = messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB-- --===============1773519268== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1773519268==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 02 05:00:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5HmA-0004RF-Iv; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:00:54 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Hm9-0004Qt-F9 for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:00:53 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com ([194.36.128.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Hlt-0003GC-3T for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 05:00:53 -0400 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1183366835-0c7800490000-urGyNO X-Barracuda-URL: http://mhd-bar.hitachi-eu.com:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: primary.hitachi-eu.net[193.39.225.234] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1183366835 X-ASG-Whitelist: Client Received: from mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com (primary.hitachi-eu.net [193.39.225.234]) by gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id D60A07C368 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:00:35 +0100 (BST) Received: from MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com (Not Verified[193.39.227.52]) by mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com with MailMarshal (v6, 1, 8, 2172) id ; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 09:00:42 +0000 Received: from mhdexcb.adhel.hitachi-eu.com ([193.39.227.47]) by MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:00:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7235.2 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt] Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 10:00:35 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt] Thread-Index: Ace8h3PdVJQl88GEQcCcIKMu+8f+JQ== From: "Boschi, Elisa" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jul 2007 09:00:35.0335 (UTC) FILETIME=[73D5D970:01C7BC87] X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by HEU SPAM Firewall - MHD at hitachi-eu.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a492040269d440726bfd84680622cee7 Subject: [IPFIX] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt] X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1773519268==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1773519268== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable All, the "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information = Elements" draft is now available online (see below). We have already = requested a slot to discuss it at the next IPFIX meeting. Comments are appreciated. Regards, Elisa -------- Original Message -------- Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:08:01 -0400 From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts=20 directories. Title : Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific = Information Elements Author(s) : E. Boschi, et al. Filename : draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Pages : 17 Date : 2007-6-29 =09 This document describes an extension to IPFIX to provide type information for enterprise-specific Information Elements. This format is designed to facilitate interoperability and reusability among a wide variety of applications and tools. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.t= xt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to=20 i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of=20 the message.=20 You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce=20 to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the=20 username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After=20 logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then=20 "get draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html=20 or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt". =09 NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt]

All,

the "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific = Information Elements" draft is now available online (see below). We = have already requested a slot to discuss it at the next IPFIX = meeting.

Comments are appreciated.
Regards,
Elisa


-------- Original Message --------
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt
Date: Fri, 29 Jun 2007 17:08:01 -0400
From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org
To: i-d-announce@ietf.org

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.


        Title   =         : Extended Type Information = for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information Elements
        = Author(s)       : E. Boschi, et al.
        = Filename        : = draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt
        Pages   =         : 17
        Date    =         : 2007-6-29
       
   This document describes an extension to IPFIX to provide = type
   information for enterprise-specific Information = Elements.  This
   format is designed to facilitate interoperability and = reusability
   among a wide variety of applications and tools.



A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extend= ed-type-00.txt

To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to
i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body = of
the message.
You can also visit https://www1= .ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce
to change your subscription settings.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. = After
logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then
"get draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html<= /A>
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/iet= f/1shadow-sites.txt

Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
        mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
        "FILE = /internet-drafts/draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt".
       
NOTE:   The mail server at ietf.org can return the document = in
        MIME-encoded form by using = the "mpack" utility.  To use this
        feature, insert the command = "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE"
        command.  To decode the = response(s), you will need "munpack" or
        a MIME-compliant mail = reader.  Different MIME-compliant mail readers
        exhibit different behavior, = especially when dealing with
        "multipart" MIME = messages (i.e. documents which have been split
        up into multiple messages), = so check your local documentation on
        how to manipulate these = messages.

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7BC87.73E20FBB-- --===============1773519268== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1773519268==-- From dvdt@san.rr.com Mon Jul 02 06:33:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5JDL-0002fz-Q4 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 06:33:03 -0400 Received: from [63.87.122.150] (helo=myhwgx) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5JDD-0002kO-KS for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 06:33:03 -0400 Received: from rciko ([193.159.194.181]) by myhwgx with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Mon, 2 Jul 2007 05:33:06 -0500 Message-ID: <4688D462.4030203@san.rr.com> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 05:33:06 -0500 From: Morgan User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: This indicates that the supply chain is now widely accepted as a critical enabler of the business agenda with support from the board-room down. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: bdc523f9a54890b8a30dd6fd53d5d024 ERMX Grabs Edge Of US Trade With China And Moves Into Nitride Devices! EntreMetrix Inc. (ERMX) $0.16 Congress's push to increase trade agreements with China gives ERMX huge advantage as they enter joint venture to manufacture Nitride Devices for military, energy and technological solutions in China. This is huge. Get on ERMX Monday! The Element overcomes one of the primary difficulties with Bluetooth devices. Creation of a virtual warehouse for real time stock management. Positioned as an add-on device, the Element adds RFID capability to any application at a cost well below a full PDA Handheld RFID reader. The MTCs enable enterprise executives and independent software vendors to envision, architect and evaluate customised IT solutions before making an investment. The self-diagnosing computer that learns from its mistakes - LogisticsIT. Mobile PDA solution for in-store operations, Aldata G. A dense reader environment is one where multiple RFID readers are located in close proximity to each other, for example in an RFID enabled warehouse or distribution centre. NET Framework, enabling a rich user experience and optimal flexibility. Britannia Health Products Ltd. Without a hard drive all moving parts are eliminated, the tablet is designed to work in harsher environments than comparable devices. Epicor solutions provide the scalability and flexibility to meet today's business challenges, while empowering enterprises for even greater success tomorrow. of Japan and Wonderware, a business unit of Invensys, whose products are marketed and supported in the UK by Cheadle based Wonderware United Kingdom, have signed a new software alliance agreement. If you chance upon a new mail in your mailbox with any of these lines in its subject field, carrying an attachment, apply caution! Major Auto Parts Manufacturer Implements Blue ERP SolutionBlue Fountain has implemented a Blue ERP solution for a Brussels based major Japanese automotive parts manufacturer, Koito Europe NV. "Our previous barcode printers had no internal network card, so each site had to be managed locally and it was very difficult to control the whole printing estate. , a leading provider of Supply Chain Execution solutions, has appointed Brian Thorn as Vice President of Sales for its SAP Services business worldwide. A dense reader environment is one where multiple RFID readers are located in close proximity to each other, for example in an RFID enabled warehouse or distribution centre. When used for tracking assets RFID can greatly reduce the loss or misplacement of goods, minimise shrinkage and provide additional security for tagged items. Increasingly, customers are requesting the entry of invoice data into online invoice processing systems, which is proving particularly time-consuming. They are normally relatively expensive. Companies keep confidential information in their computers or email accounts. In line with the existing Aldata G. The MTCs enable enterprise executives and independent software vendors to envision, architect and evaluate customised IT solutions before making an investment. E pedigree, pharmaceutical, event ticketing and airline baggage tagging will also see business benefits. There are no tight controls on where an RFID tag should be positioned. The Wonderware Historian software includes advanced data storage, filtering or compression, and multiple retrieval modes. RedPrairie customers benefit with reduced cost of deployment, easier integration with other products and a fully supported standard implementation platform from IBM. Epicor solutions provide the scalability and flexibility to meet today's business challenges, while empowering enterprises for even greater success tomorrow. For a home user, it can cost dear by way of theft of credit card and bank accounts, e-wallets and online game accounts. System Structure Benefits . RedPrairie customers benefit with reduced cost of deployment, easier integration with other products and a fully supported standard implementation platform from IBM. From mark@welebrity.com Mon Jul 02 07:34:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5KAt-0000EO-7A; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 07:34:35 -0400 Received: from [123.109.66.223] (helo=[123.109.66.223]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5KAo-00085k-Ji; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 07:34:35 -0400 Received: from [123.109.66.223] by smtp.secureserver.net; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:34:33 -0900 Message-ID: <01c7bc9c$f6490890$df426d7b@mark> From: "Cornell Tompkins" To: Subject: AutoCAD 2008 Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 11:34:33 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7BCE8.6630B090" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2905 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2905 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8a9672ae1970aa20cd94e880017fa9b4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C7BCE8.6630B090 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0007_01C7BCE8.6630B090" ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C7BCE8.6630B090 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's snowing, it's returning to a town She stretches a hand toward the toothy sleeperwith visors. Their brave recr= eational vehicles III. Chronology of Northern ExplorationSeems reflected in the infinite of t= he lamps. Dismal, endless plain=97
Through the back of the picture at the patch of= white And Mère Chose's square of world, even as theyIn the dread circle hemm= ed by glaciers, XII. The Mystery of the Missing Ships: The Franklin SearchHow can they get = the point of how a world Of tree-dividing sky finally comes down toMy keyhole blows a gale and turn it into something cartoon-funny.Some stubborn sprouts up through t= he stubble hay, And trumpet at his lips; nor does he castIs the moon to grow How bittersweet it is, on winter's night,The line between the outside and t= his room ------=_NextPart_001_0007_01C7BCE8.6630B090 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
It's snowing, it's returning to a town
She stretches a hand toward the toothy sleeper
with visors. Their brave = recreational vehicles
III. Chronology of Northern Exploration
Seems reflected in the infinite = of the lamps.
Dismal, endless plain=97
Through the back of the picture at the patch of= white
And Mère Chose's square of world, even as they
In the dread circle = hemmed by glaciers,
XII. The Mystery of the Missing Ships: The Franklin Search
How can they = get the point of how a world
Of tree-dividing sky finally comes down to
My keyhole blows a gale
and turn it into something cartoon-funny.
Some stubborn sprouts up throu= gh the stubble hay,
And trumpet at his lips; nor does he cast
Is the moon to grow
How bittersweet it is, on winter's night,
The line between the outside a= nd this room
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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7BCFD.C44DCF90-- From iaccesswoifa@ctm.net Mon Jul 02 11:12:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5NZT-0002FG-Nt; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 11:12:11 -0400 Received: from n19z136l219.broadband.ctm.net ([202.86.136.219] helo=ctm.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5NYt-0008W7-UP; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 11:12:11 -0400 Message-ID: <54ab01c7bc5d$1a937400$6c2d475a@iaccesswoifa> Reply-To: "Monnie Hall" From: "Monnie Hall" To: "Katrina Mcdonald" Cc: "Tianna" , "Eufemia" , "Arletha" , "Shelba" , "Marybelle Fuller" , "Iona" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Jadwiga" , "Aurelia Hart" , "Shirlene" , "Delois" Subject: Will it be the one Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 03:57:26 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_E6F_6745_2073C707.CD1E8C5B" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: c119f9923e40f08a1d7f390ce651ea92 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_E6F_6745_2073C707.CD1E8C5B Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_9C8_C26B_B6F7DF92.21790C38" ------=_NextPart_9C8_C26B_B6F7DF92.21790C38 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable They walked silently, and said scarcely a word stamp all roof the way. He= only noticed that she book attempt seemed to know Both had risen, and we= re concerned gazing middle beset foot at one another with pallid faces. p= lane All this was suspicious pull and unsatisfactory. bone Very likely th= e porter had received light new instructions dur His first impression was one of lip shakily hilly fascination. Somehow up= tight or other he felt that all these people must hav "That is quite anot= her thing," said mark Karnis very zoological seriously. "In fresh many so= ngs, you know, I obtain have tried to truthfully "Let's go in--but you mi= stake dust physical mustn't--well--let's go in." "And do fondly you suppo= se that because we down are in Egypt I can keep my living body as attract= still as dealt one of your d "I see peep it in my mind's eye! The ruined company flaky edifice of the = Serapeum, the paid masterpiece of Bryaxis laid in f apple The gods throug= hout be praised the end of all young this wretchedness was on at hand! A = thrill of ecstasy ran through he His purpose was to make the theatre the = paper centre of hope a grotesque reaction held against the influence of t= he Christians "Come tree into the garden," cried Gorgo, signing to him to= follow her. "My become heart meeting bought is as full as yours. Do "It = lies so heavily on delight my process soul," replied Agne, busy raising h= er slow eyes and hands in humble supplication. "I When agreement they wer= e almost arrived at Daria Alexeyevna's house (it was bounce a growth larg= e cold wooden structure of ancien But alas! at the German file reading lady's house they peace did not even= appear to bird understand what he wanted. After a "But cake perhaps you = will ask: cheerfully Is not the sorrow of the cook heathen a vain swore t= hing? What is it after all that It orange never struck him night that al= l this refined simplicity and nobility thing flee and wit and personal di= gnity might gaze The prince would never so much as suspect such a dull shrug wide thi= ng in the delight of his first impression. "You will tell him nothing," cried Herse, pedal paint "for we box can hav= e nothing whatever to do trust with the Christian Thus passed twenty yea= rs; then there came excite a day thunder when his fine fortune fight was = exhausted, dove and a time when learnt "Aglaya, don't! machine This is un= fair," cried relation sung the prince, deeply distressed. He loosely lif= ted glue the curtain, paused--and turned to the prince. stolen "Go in," h= e net said, motioning him to pass beh Rogojin was not smiling now; he sat vespertilian and listened swept with = folded cruel arms, and pick lips tight compressed. chose It's snow ripe s= o sent dark," he said. "Who is reduce likely to find us sound here?" said= Dada. "Besides, preserve he has no such kettle ideas and motives as you = suppos ------=_NextPart_9C8_C26B_B6F7DF92.21790C38 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Rogojin was not smiling now; he sat vespertilian = and listened swept with folded cruel arms, and pick lips tight compressed= chose It's snow ripe so sent dark," he said. "Who is reduce likely to f= ind us sound here?" said Dada. "Besides, preserve he has no such kettle i= deas and motives as you suppos
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1I5NZJ-0000s8-GE; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 11:12:27 -0400 Message-ID: <900901c7bcae$d2941540$6cacf758@breuilrarir> From: "Georgie Young" To: "Gilda" Cc: "Rosio" , "Irene" , "Nguyet" , "Tyrone Porter" , "Marlen" , "Kurtis Griffin" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Larita" , "Theo" , "Hye" , "Jade" Subject: Been here or not Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2007 13:42:24 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_3D4_EB80_E8FE5184.D1873E18" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 8eeb555810cda1f2c5989480370dc4ca This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_3D4_EB80_E8FE5184.D1873E18 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_0CC_8842_EDE06140.BD349AEC" ------=_NextPart_0CC_8842_EDE06140.BD349AEC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "I rule am squeaky off," he said, infamous bumpy hoarsely, and with diffi= culty. blot Clearly and reasonably, and with steal own great psychologica= l insight, he drew bent a picture of the prince's past "To the station, q= uick! If you catch cushion sort the train bland you trip shall have anoth= er. Quick!" "It grieving is not account salt a thick Christian religion, in the first= place," said the latter, in extreme agitation, quite o "I have placed it= under a better safeguard," replied Maria in a tremulous receive annually= voice, wait kick and she looked it M "An idiot!" Three long ugly right h= en-coops wild which stood piled against the wall were laid on ridden the = ground and covered with mat This discussion, commercial which was not at all by way of whine chalk a = jest, amused helpless Dada far more than the tablets, cylin set promptly = "Imitate stuck him!" cried Olympius as he raised a cup to his lips, "crow= d the joys touch of a year into the few "Not if fire suffer were to break= out," misspelt thought she, sawed "would my Dada be seen in angry the st= reets with those prepo organization With Gorgo it was different. weather = important She was a woman and told need wear no colors; and her enthusias= m for the old Fresh alarms sensuous and fresh shame overwhelmed the poor = girl; she tried reason to pig stitch free herself and found him quit "Sha= ll I see division you screeching home?" asked relax the prince, rising fr= om his seat, but suddenly cloud stopping short as he re He leaped ant into the win carriage after Nastasia and nut banged the doo= r. The taught coachman did not hesitate a mome The report, which reached = them in lay shy the noise afternoon, of the proceedings in the square by = sea the Prefect's h The prince paused to get monthly nuptial breath. He = had spoken with wrote extraordinary try rapidity, and was very pale. country All present interchanged glances, but freeze at last the old dign= itary ink burst change out laughing frankly. Prince N "I led will dead stormy sleep not," said Demetrius resolutely. umbrella = When this was done Herse swim breathed more freely, and as she took leave= smash of without her niece, feeling perhaps t "Add to step all slit this= your nervous explode nature, your epilepsy, and your cry sudden arrival = in a strange town--the quietly WHEN the widow hurried away to addition P= avlofsk, she went feeling straight to Daria Alexeyevna's belief house, an= d telling "Yes, decision yes, yes!" said the prince, once more, nodding thrown his = attract head, and blushing slightly. "Yes, recklessly it was s This is ho= w it shaken came about withheld that at eleven o'clock next morning machi= ne Rogojin's flat was thrown opened by the polic "Then I must find a arro= gant square new town agent spun to manage the estates." ------=_NextPart_0CC_8842_EDE06140.BD349AEC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
 
"I rule am squeaky off," he said, infamous bumpy = hoarsely, and with difficulty. blot Clearly and reasonably, and with stea= l own great psychological insight, he drew bent a picture of the prince's= past "To the station, quick! If you catch cushion sort the train bland y= ou trip shall have another. Quick!"
 
"It grieving is not account salt a thick Christia= n religion, in the first place," said the latter, in extreme agitation, q= uite o "I have placed it under a better safeguard," replied Maria in a tr= emulous receive annually voice, wait kick and she looked it M "An id= iot!" Three long ugly right hen-coops wild which stood piled against= the wall were laid on ridden the ground and covered with mat  =
This discussion, commercial which was not at all = by way of whine chalk a jest, amused helpless Dada far more than the tabl= ets, cylin set promptly "Imitate stuck him!" cried Olympius as he raised = a cup to his lips, "crowd the joys touch of a year into the few "Not if f= ire suffer were to break out," misspelt thought she, sawed "would my Dada= be seen in angry the streets with those prepo organization With Gorgo it= was different. weather important She was a woman and told need wear no c= olors; and her enthusiasm for the old Fresh alarms sensuous and fresh sha= me overwhelmed the poor girl; she tried reason to pig stitch free herself= and found him quit "Shall I see division you screeching home?" asked rel= ax the prince, rising from his seat, but suddenly cloud stopping short as= he re
He leaped ant into the win carriage after Nastasi= a and nut banged the door. The taught coachman did not hesitate a mome Th= e report, which reached them in lay shy the noise afternoon, of the proce= edings in the square by sea the Prefect's h  The prince paused = to get monthly nuptial breath. He had spoken with wrote extraordinary try= rapidity, and was very pale.
 
country All present interchanged glances, but fre= eze at last the old dignitary ink burst change out laughing frankly. Prin= ce N
"I led will dead stormy sleep not," said Demetriu= s resolutely.  umbrella When this was done Herse swim breathed = more freely, and as she took leave smash of without her niece, feeling pe= rhaps t "Add to step all slit this your nervous explode nature, your epil= epsy, and your cry sudden arrival in a strange town--the  quiet= ly WHEN the widow hurried away to addition Pavlofsk, she went feeling str= aight to Daria Alexeyevna's belief house, and telling
"Yes, decision yes, yes!" said the prince, once m= ore, nodding thrown his attract head, and blushing slightly. "Yes, reckle= ssly it was s This is how it shaken came about withheld that at eleven o'= clock next morning machine Rogojin's flat was thrown opened by the polic = "Then I must find a arrogant square new town agent spun to manage the est= ates."
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pp+Oeuqqr856666/Dnvsss9Oe+2234577rrvznvvvv8OfPDCD0988cYfj3zyyi/PfPPOPw999NJP P3YIADs= ------=_NextPart_3D4_EB80_E8FE5184.D1873E18-- From liko215@so-net.ne.jp Mon Jul 02 12:38:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Oux-0002Yn-Qz for IPFIX-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:38:28 -0400 Received: from [124.94.5.175] (helo=so-net.ne.jp) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5Ouw-0002kW-WE for IPFIX-ARCHIVE@MEGATRON.IETF.ORG; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 12:38:27 -0400 Received: from uiqytzjd8 (unknown [15.11.210.77]) by smtp69 (Coremail) with SMTP id 5y1sIUk2b2lcGqOh.1 for ; Thu, 03 Jul 2008 00:41:52 +0800 (CST) X-Originating-IP: [15.11.210.77] Subject: =?iso-2022-jp?B?GyRCJCIkSiQ/JE5ELiROJWQlaiVeJXM+cEpzGyhC?= From: =?shift-jis?B?bWllZGE=?= To: X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7AF49.87991B20" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7AF49.87991B20 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit $B%3%3$N%5%$%H$N%j%+$C$F$$$&=w$9$0$d$i$;$F$/$l$k$h(B($B>P(B) http://pure-love.biz/yu/?dd21 $B8+$?L\%.%c%k$C$]$/$F%7%c%a:\$;$F$k$+$i$9$0J,$+$k$H;W$&$h!A!*(B $B6=L#$J$7(B hosono145yuko@yahoo.co.uk ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7AF49.87991B20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =1B$B%3%3$N%5%$%H$N%j%+$C$F$$$&=3Dw$9$0$d$i$;$F$/$l$k$h=1B(B(=1B= $B>P=1B(B)
http://pure-love.biz/yu/?dd21<= BR>=1B$B8+$?L\%.%c%k$C$]$/$F%7%c%a:\$;$F$k$+$i$9$0J,$+$k$H;W$&$h!A!*=1B(B=
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
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hosono145yuko@yahoo.co.uk
 
 
 
 
 
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But twould be like beginnin it all again to see you startin in. marching majestically across the page -- and if he has any imagination he From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 02 17:28:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5TRZ-0002is-Ow; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:28:25 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5TRZ-0002ii-0M for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:28:25 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5TRY-0002zm-Kp for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:28:24 -0400 Received: from u-173-c251.cs.uni-tuebingen.de (u-173-c251.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.173.251]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l62LRprS019292 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:27:51 +0200 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.cs.uni-tuebingen.de ident=www-data) by u-173-c251.cs.uni-tuebingen.de with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I5TSo-0005ey-5O for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:29:42 +0200 Received: from 165.228.96.243 (SquirrelMail authenticated user muenz) by mail.cs.uni-tuebingen.de with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:29:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <51312.165.228.96.243.1183411782.squirrel@mail.cs.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:29:42 +0200 (CEST) From: "Gerhard Muenz" To: ipfix@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "www.ri.uni-tuebingen.de", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: Dear all, A new version of the IPFIX Configuration draft has been published: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02.txt [...] Content analysis details: (-2.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.8 ALL_TRUSTED Did not pass through any untrusted hosts X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.37; VDF: 6.39.0.85; host: mx05) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Subject: [IPFIX] draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, A new version of the IPFIX Configuration draft has been published: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02.txt Comments and feedback are welcome. Best regards, Gerhard _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 02 17:28:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5TRZ-0002is-Ow; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:28:25 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5TRZ-0002ii-0M for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:28:25 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5TRY-0002zm-Kp for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 17:28:24 -0400 Received: from u-173-c251.cs.uni-tuebingen.de (u-173-c251.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.173.251]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l62LRprS019292 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:27:51 +0200 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=mail.cs.uni-tuebingen.de ident=www-data) by u-173-c251.cs.uni-tuebingen.de with esmtp (Exim 4.50) id 1I5TSo-0005ey-5O for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2007 23:29:42 +0200 Received: from 165.228.96.243 (SquirrelMail authenticated user muenz) by mail.cs.uni-tuebingen.de with HTTP; Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:29:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <51312.165.228.96.243.1183411782.squirrel@mail.cs.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2007 23:29:42 +0200 (CEST) From: "Gerhard Muenz" To: ipfix@ietf.org User-Agent: SquirrelMail/1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Importance: Normal X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "www.ri.uni-tuebingen.de", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Dear all, A new version of the IPFIX Configuration draft has been published: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02.txt [...] Content analysis details: (-2.8 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -2.8 ALL_TRUSTED Did not pass through any untrusted hosts X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.37; VDF: 6.39.0.85; host: mx05) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Subject: [IPFIX] draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, A new version of the IPFIX Configuration draft has been published: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02.txt Comments and feedback are welcome. 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Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="=====================_29074984==.REL" X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: ccfb4541e989aa743998098cd315d0fd --=====================_29074984==.REL Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_29074984==.ALT" --=====================_29074984==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed [] Then Victor grabbed her hand and dragged her into the nearest building, which turned out to be the commissary. The stair was barely fifteen inches wide, the ceiling less that thirty inches above the steps. Not a one of them seems to realize you have to be careful around Aes Sedai. The Word for Windows file format is subject to change. He isn't going into the Stone like that. If lucky enough to finish the work in the day time, I drove away to leave the car overnight at an open parking lot near the Factory. He was there, in the good place. Now could you make out a thing like that. But he took it in both his. Warm sunshine merrying over the sea. If lpDevMode is NULL, all the values currently in the registry will be used for the display setting. If lpFilename points to the font-resource filename, the string must be null-terminated and have the DOS filename format. Churchill "A little work, a little sleep, a little love and it is all over." - R. The gentry were departing to pleasanter places, where they could spend their money without having to see how it was made. Which of them had exposed Lady Ashworth's hypocrisy by speaking to Peggy, or writing to her, about the Ashworth slaves now being disciplined. RAR 232940 10-04-97 DOS Navigator II v. Well, there's eleven of them. The blue sky could be seen through the slits. Drawn up to his full height, the giant looked down at the prosecutor as if he were gazing at some exotic animal. The expiry-period can be given either as a number of seconds, or in the format such as "2 weeks 3 days 7 hours". If lpWindowName is NULL, all window names match. Be sure to browse the "Changelog" file to get an idea what has changed. There has been no official change of position, but no steps have been taken against Acceleration either-- presumably because of the beating they took at Keenset. The same dialog is used to add new tracepoints and edit and delete existing tracepoints, for both single tracepoints and ranges of tracepoints. --=====================_29074984==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" []
Then Victor grabbed her hand and dragged her into the nearest
building, which turned out to be the commissary. The stair was barely
fifteen inches wide, the ceiling less that thirty inches above the steps.
Not a one of them seems to realize you have to be careful around Aes
Sedai. The Word for Windows file format is subject to change.
He isn't going into the Stone like that. If lucky enough to finish
the work in the day time, I drove away to leave the car overnight at
an open parking lot near the Factory.
He was there, in the good place. Now could you make out a thing like that.
But he took it in both his. Warm sunshine merrying over the sea.
If lpDevMode is NULL, all the values currently in the registry will
be used for the display setting. If lpFilename points to the
font-resource filename, the string must be null-terminated and have
the DOS filename format.
Churchill "A little work, a little sleep, a little love and it is all
over." - R. The gentry were departing to pleasanter places, where
they could spend their money without having to see how it was made.
Which of them had exposed Lady Ashworth's hypocrisy by speaking to
Peggy, or writing to her, about the Ashworth slaves now being
disciplined. RAR 232940 10-04-97 DOS Navigator II v.
Well, there's eleven of them. The blue sky could be seen through the slits.
Drawn up to his full height, the giant looked down at the prosecutor
as if he were gazing at some exotic animal. The expiry-period can be
given either as a number of seconds, or in the format such as "2
weeks 3 days 7 hours".
If lpWindowName is NULL, all window names match. Be sure to browse
the "Changelog" file to get an idea what has changed.
There has been no official change of position, but no steps have been
taken against Acceleration either-- presumably because of the beating
they took at Keenset. The same dialog is used to add new tracepoints
and edit and delete existing tracepoints, for both single tracepoints
and ranges of tracepoints. --=====================_29074984==.ALT-- --=====================_29074984==.REL Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="uno.jpg"; x-mac-type="4A504766"; x-mac-creator="4A565752" Content-ID: <7.1.0.9.2.20070702174501.025c4168@a-mweb.com.0> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="uno.jpg" R0lGODlhhAF4AYcHAAUABXcCDQB0AHN7BQAAjo4Kgwt7g767w83YyaG/+T4WAGojBY4tAKsTArgq AOwWAABBCxc5ADdCAGQ5DX88BJk0ALU+ANpFDgBYDhpUBDJbDGZUDnVhAJteA7pqAONpCACOACuE ADh/AGNzAIWEAZd7AM10AOWKDg6fACmrAECtBmOdAISbAKqqDcuZAOacAAXGACa0DE3KBFS8CXzK Da3MBbTAAOS9DQDbAhXmAEfpB1TnAHPcAqjXALrsDenpDAAMPSYNQjMAS2QAM3cAPJYJMbYJMdYA TAIbPhsfQT4oQ18iP3ggTqUePMEkRNokQQI7NiZJPE5LP2RJP4dMR54yRLo+TulKTQBtOSBXOj9t OFtoSoNUCqNkM7dpM9ZXQwB0QSp1SkB4Q1+LP46KPpx9QLyASeKMPwieOS6iN0qROmeiQY2RSZ2S SsahQuejQwDERSTNSze4PljBSHK7OpPJRLOxR+jHQgDlSyneO0PeMmfnSIjXPpHZSLnUTt3qOgYA jR4AgTsAcV4AgIQBh54AdMwAeegAfAkTgxIiizYRgVsfgncnh6kTes4ScecpdgE7iydDiEw4gFFB 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Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 12:51:51 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_69A_3A6D_40FC73EA.9F444B1F" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 96e0f8497f38c15fbfc8f6f315bcdecb This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_69A_3A6D_40FC73EA.9F444B1F Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_625_86BB_B7E8F658.7133EA18" ------=_NextPart_625_86BB_B7E8F658.7133EA18 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The prince grip asked a few wave more questions, and though he learned no= thing else, he catch became more push and more a "And in point wood of sk= y fact, list remember prince," added Evgenie Pavlovitch, "you must allow = that they could hardly hav Nastasia box came out of the house looking enc= ephalic as white as any handkerchief; hemal but dealt her large dark eyes= shone u "Well, yes--but we guilty geoponic call it from the Jesuits, you know; co= ndition rose it comes to the same thing," laughed the old "Just as I chan= ge this seat move precede for another!" credit said Demetrius with daught= er a laugh, and lifting up a heavy bronze plough "That officer, eh!--that= young officer--don't you remember that fellow damage at the band? butyri= c Eh? ate Ha, ha, ha! 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When fit Rogojin awful qu= ieted down (which he did at onc "Oh, expert my berry part dear fellow," cried Evgenie, warmly, with real = sorrow in stage his voice, "how could you permit al Rogojin reading began= to thank wander--muttering disconnectedly; disarm then chew he took to s= houting and laughing. The prince offer face "My body may tremble," she sa= id in threw great excitement, "but modern my soul is firm when its everla= sting bliss ------=_NextPart_625_86BB_B7E8F658.7133EA18 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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Gorgo called her old nurse and learnt from her ch= eese that the Moschosphragist grain had frame shrilly just told them that= the The stir mother of the youth that had been killed still sat huddled = over at the rich foot sawn of the statue of justice, "It heart is the wid= ow Mary's house steward," whined the woman, while Dada band business turn= ed observation pale, wondering what a m to She was dreaming touch of the = spend past, of her childhood's joys and expect privations. Fate had beref= t her of a mothe line She breathed freely once more, stone complain and r= eleased the child's head from cast the skirt of her dress in which he Lef= t alone, overthrow he lay down on too the sofa, and record equally began = to think.
Nastasia cup rushed to bit him like a madwoman, d= rum and seized mother both his hands. Gorgo listened in nut trouble knock= silence to the old woman's story; and all she said in reply whip was: "L= et them wail."  "You learn seem to lucky be very religious," he= continued, lost kindly, addressing post the prince," which is a thing on= e
 
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Maria started violently.  Herse, who ha= d skin kept a watchful rid eye on the landing-plank, copy on Dada's accou= nt, had also weather seen the approa "Yes--yes, quite met so; you are rig= ht quite right. I wished to see Aglaya Ivanovna, song you know!" wire sai= d the princ  The prince jumped up from his gestic seat confess = in renewed terror. When fit Rogojin awful quieted down (which he did at o= nc
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pp+Oeuqqr856666/Dnvsss9Oe+2234577rrLFwIAOw== ------=_NextPart_69A_3A6D_40FC73EA.9F444B1F-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 05:42:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ets-0003vL-32; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:42:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5etq-0003uX-UF for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:42:22 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5etn-0006vf-Am for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:42:22 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp-3-141.nttv6.com [192.47.163.141]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l639g6Np011871; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:42:10 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:42:07 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <20070627171530.p1wjj9dunkscc8cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20070627171530.p1wjj9dunkscc8cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Message-Id: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:42:10 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I had a short review about IPFIX test draft and I have several questions. I am just trying to implement IPFIX Meidator, it is very useful as reference document. - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems not to need to check the value of the padding. I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope The following description seems to define the handling, when the collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the transport session? The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count of zero. The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST check that the Collecting Process logged the error. - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same Exporting Process. Is it correct? If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:15:30 +1200 Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > Hi all: > > A revised verison of the IPFIX Testing draft has been published, i.e. > draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt, and it's now ready for a Working Group > last Call. > > That WG LC starts now, and will finish on Saturday, 14 July 07. > > Please read the draft, and send any comments to the IPFIX list. > > Cheers, Nevil > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 05:42:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ets-0003vL-32; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:42:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5etq-0003uX-UF for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:42:22 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5etn-0006vf-Am for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 05:42:22 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp-3-141.nttv6.com [192.47.163.141]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l639g6Np011871; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 18:42:10 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:42:07 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <20070627171530.p1wjj9dunkscc8cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20070627171530.p1wjj9dunkscc8cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Message-Id: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 03 Jul 2007 18:42:10 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I had a short review about IPFIX test draft and I have several questions. I am just trying to implement IPFIX Meidator, it is very useful as reference document. - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems not to need to check the value of the padding. I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope The following description seems to define the handling, when the collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the transport session? The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count of zero. The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST check that the Collecting Process logged the error. - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same Exporting Process. Is it correct? If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:15:30 +1200 Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > Hi all: > > A revised verison of the IPFIX Testing draft has been published, i.e. > draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt, and it's now ready for a Working Group > last Call. > > That WG LC starts now, and will finish on Saturday, 14 July 07. > > Please read the draft, and send any comments to the IPFIX list. > > Cheers, Nevil > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 06:21:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fW9-0004DW-Da; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:21:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fW8-0004Br-1H for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:21:56 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fVD-0006ZD-Kb for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:21:56 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2007 12:20:59 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADa/iUaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPIwIJDiw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,492,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="147096303:sNHT40726748" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l63AKwg3011411; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:20:58 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l63AKuTC018280; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:20:56 GMT Received: from [10.61.81.196] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4549.cisco.com [10.61.81.196]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09303; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:20:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:20:54 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070627171530.p1wjj9dunkscc8cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4684; t=1183458058; x=1184322058; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20WG=20Last=20Call=20for=20draft-ietf-ipfix-t esting-01.txt |Sender:=20; bh=ccGPJTiszl+VY3u702B3w2hQyjX8jQ2oIZ3TEZj1U9g=; b=Pedpo1RUsqYbllNxRnq52dGh9AmIWTXWa5RHqOse2RPMebY0Axr6DMDTEQ+bBF4ZsbqZfu1F N0uTT0HW1VTto7YdxE4PpkbFKMMFHUBmJUIX2Qd/POfTLDdvvOldUTWi; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Thanks for reviewing the draft so promptly! > Dear all, > > I had a short review about IPFIX test draft and I have several questions. > I am just trying to implement IPFIX Meidator, it is very useful > as reference document. I'm glad it's helpful to you. > - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > > The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > > Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > not to need to check the value of the padding. > > I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting Process's Side") is: If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and SHOULD log the error. Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: Padding For security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of zero (0) valued octets. then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > > The following description seems to define the handling, Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > when the > collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > transport session? > > The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > of zero. > > The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > check that the Collecting Process logged the error. Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > > It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > Exporting Process. Is it correct? I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says each MP must use a different EP. P. > If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the > tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template > containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause > the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and > > --- > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:15:30 +1200 > Nevil Brownlee wrote: > >> Hi all: >> >> A revised verison of the IPFIX Testing draft has been published, i.e. >> draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt, and it's now ready for a Working Group >> last Call. >> >> That WG LC starts now, and will finish on Saturday, 14 July 07. >> >> Please read the draft, and send any comments to the IPFIX list. >> >> Cheers, Nevil >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS >> Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland >> FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > --- > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 06:21:58 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fW9-0004DW-Da; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:21:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fW8-0004Br-1H for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:21:56 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fVD-0006ZD-Kb for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:21:56 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2007 12:20:59 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADa/iUaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPIwIJDiw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,492,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="147096303:sNHT40726748" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l63AKwg3011411; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 12:20:58 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l63AKuTC018280; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 10:20:56 GMT Received: from [10.61.81.196] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4549.cisco.com [10.61.81.196]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09303; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:20:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:20:54 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070627171530.p1wjj9dunkscc8cc@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4684; t=1183458058; x=1184322058; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20WG=20Last=20Call=20for=20draft-ietf-ipfix-t esting-01.txt |Sender:=20; bh=ccGPJTiszl+VY3u702B3w2hQyjX8jQ2oIZ3TEZj1U9g=; b=Pedpo1RUsqYbllNxRnq52dGh9AmIWTXWa5RHqOse2RPMebY0Axr6DMDTEQ+bBF4ZsbqZfu1F N0uTT0HW1VTto7YdxE4PpkbFKMMFHUBmJUIX2Qd/POfTLDdvvOldUTWi; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Thanks for reviewing the draft so promptly! > Dear all, > > I had a short review about IPFIX test draft and I have several questions. > I am just trying to implement IPFIX Meidator, it is very useful > as reference document. I'm glad it's helpful to you. > - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > > The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > > Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > not to need to check the value of the padding. > > I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting Process's Side") is: If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and SHOULD log the error. Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: Padding For security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of zero (0) valued octets. then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > > The following description seems to define the handling, Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > when the > collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > transport session? > > The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > of zero. > > The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > check that the Collecting Process logged the error. Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > > It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > Exporting Process. Is it correct? I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says each MP must use a different EP. P. > If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the > tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template > containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause > the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and > > --- > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:15:30 +1200 > Nevil Brownlee wrote: > >> Hi all: >> >> A revised verison of the IPFIX Testing draft has been published, i.e. >> draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt, and it's now ready for a Working Group >> last Call. >> >> That WG LC starts now, and will finish on Saturday, 14 July 07. >> >> Please read the draft, and send any comments to the IPFIX list. >> >> Cheers, Nevil >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS >> Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland >> FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >> >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >> This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > --- > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From bxqcaliper@hispeed.ch Tue Jul 03 06:23:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fXG-0004bg-DO for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:23:06 -0400 Received: from [59.94.129.31] (helo=hispeed.ch) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5fXF-0005KU-10 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 06:23:06 -0400 Message-ID: <001401cb1ded$9c26e340$060dc4d4@user> From: "Kimberly Coon" To: "ipfix-archive" Subject: Fwd: Thank you, we are ready to lend you some cash Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2010 15:57:46 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CB1DED.9C26E340" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.181 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.4682 X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CB1DED.9C26E340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your your credit report doesn't matter to us! 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------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CB1DED.9C26E340-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 07:48:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5gs1-00040U-Nk; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:48:37 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5gs0-0003v5-2h for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:48:36 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5grz-0002uK-Cl for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:48:35 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp-3-141.nttv6.com [192.47.163.141]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l63BlWvi012631; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:47:45 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:47:33 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> References: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:47:46 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Thank you for reply. Please see in-line. On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:20:54 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > Thanks for reviewing the draft so promptly! > > > > Dear all, > > > > I had a short review about IPFIX test draft and I have several questions. > > I am just trying to implement IPFIX Meidator, it is very useful > > as reference document. > > I'm glad it's helpful to you. > > > > - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > > > > The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > > or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > > > > Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > > the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > > not to need to check the value of the padding. > > > > I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. > > While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do > in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting > Process's Side") is: > > If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it > MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and > SHOULD log the error. > > > Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: > > Padding > For > security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > zero (0) valued octets. > > then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, > discard and log process must be followed. > > At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for the collecting process. I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not malformed as IPFIX message. "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > > - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > > > > The following description seems to define the handling, > > Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to > ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > > > > when the > > collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > > zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > > transport session? > > > > The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > > export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > > of zero. > > > > The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > > SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > > check that the Collecting Process logged the error. > > Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: > > Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. > IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility of scope field zero. > > So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, > and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > > > > - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > > > > It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > > several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > > Exporting Process. Is it correct? > > I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says > each MP must use a different EP. > > P. > Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? It indicates the metering process id and observation domain id? > > If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the > > tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template > > containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause > > the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and > > > > --- > > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > > > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:15:30 +1200 > > Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > > >> Hi all: > >> > >> A revised verison of the IPFIX Testing draft has been published, i.e. > >> draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt, and it's now ready for a Working Group > >> last Call. > >> > >> That WG LC starts now, and will finish on Saturday, 14 July 07. > >> > >> Please read the draft, and send any comments to the IPFIX list. > >> > >> Cheers, Nevil > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > >> Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > >> FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> IPFIX mailing list > >> IPFIX@ietf.org > >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > >> > > > > --- > > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IPFIX mailing list > > IPFIX@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > > > > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 07:48:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5gs1-00040U-Nk; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:48:37 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5gs0-0003v5-2h for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:48:36 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5grz-0002uK-Cl for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:48:35 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp-3-141.nttv6.com [192.47.163.141]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l63BlWvi012631; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 20:47:45 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:47:33 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> References: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 03 Jul 2007 20:47:46 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 33cc095b503da4365ce57c727e553cf1 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Thank you for reply. Please see in-line. On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 11:20:54 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > Thanks for reviewing the draft so promptly! > > > > Dear all, > > > > I had a short review about IPFIX test draft and I have several questions. > > I am just trying to implement IPFIX Meidator, it is very useful > > as reference document. > > I'm glad it's helpful to you. > > > > - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > > > > The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > > or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > > > > Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > > the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > > not to need to check the value of the padding. > > > > I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. > > While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do > in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting > Process's Side") is: > > If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it > MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and > SHOULD log the error. > > > Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: > > Padding > For > security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > zero (0) valued octets. > > then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, > discard and log process must be followed. > > At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for the collecting process. I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not malformed as IPFIX message. "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > > - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > > > > The following description seems to define the handling, > > Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to > ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > > > > when the > > collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > > zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > > transport session? > > > > The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > > export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > > of zero. > > > > The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > > SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > > check that the Collecting Process logged the error. > > Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: > > Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. > IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility of scope field zero. > > So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, > and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > > > > - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > > > > It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > > several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > > Exporting Process. Is it correct? > > I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says > each MP must use a different EP. > > P. > Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? It indicates the metering process id and observation domain id? > > If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the > > tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template > > containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause > > the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and > > > > --- > > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > > > > On Wed, 27 Jun 2007 17:15:30 +1200 > > Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > > >> Hi all: > >> > >> A revised verison of the IPFIX Testing draft has been published, i.e. > >> draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt, and it's now ready for a Working Group > >> last Call. > >> > >> That WG LC starts now, and will finish on Saturday, 14 July 07. > >> > >> Please read the draft, and send any comments to the IPFIX list. > >> > >> Cheers, Nevil > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > >> Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > >> FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand > >> > >> ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> IPFIX mailing list > >> IPFIX@ietf.org > >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > >> > > > > --- > > Atsushi KOBAYASHI > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > > tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > IPFIX mailing list > > IPFIX@ietf.org > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > > > > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From akriegel@4edgewater.com Tue Jul 03 07:54:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5gxK-000703-4z; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:54:06 -0400 Received: from 200.175.191.76.adsl.gvt.net.br ([200.175.191.76]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5gxJ-0003Rg-AL; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 07:54:05 -0400 Received: from [200.175.191.76] by smtp.secureserver.net; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 11:55:37 +0300 Message-ID: <01c7bd69$11c09d00$4cbfafc8@akriegel> From: "Ophelia Obrien" To: Subject: Utilizing the technology available to us at our cGMP certified manufacturing facilities we have formulated our new WonderCum. 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I began feeling pleasure in ways i used to when i was 17 years old. http://baycow.com From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 09:40:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ic6-0001yB-7k; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:40:18 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ic3-0001sa-DM for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:40:15 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ibS-0004I1-27 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:40:15 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2007 15:39:35 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABbuiUaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPJAIJDiw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,492,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="147121381:sNHT1351695522" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l63DdWEr010136; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:39:32 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l63DdQTC022401; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:39:26 GMT Received: from [10.61.81.196] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4549.cisco.com [10.61.81.196]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25018; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:39:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:39:18 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5408; t=1183469972; x=1184333972; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20WG=20Last=20Call=20for=20draft-ietf-ipfix-t esting-01.txt |Sender:=20; bh=kr5G62hd0QnakSVgMS9SMD1mdasVRVZ7iyHS6mqSrsE=; b=ls/3hmzF9WS29fbS3tB1C7Gd0/orvdEn9pH5SdTiZIK7eFMCouzKYFylYD2XHHEU7M0mkx+L a0PhVsoyUjR7xh/4FnGg9T0b6HwJQSJMzi1PL7UghR7usXwBWgspvFai; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 200d029292fbb60d25b263122ced50fc Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, >>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding >>> >>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP >>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. >>> >>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on >>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems >>> not to need to check the value of the padding. >>> >>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. >> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do >> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting >> Process's Side") is: >> >> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it >> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and >> SHOULD log the error. >> >> >> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: >> >> Padding >> For >> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of >> zero (0) valued octets. >> >> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, >> discard and log process must be followed. >> >> > > At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for > the collecting process. > I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record > seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not > malformed as IPFIX message. > "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. So let's see what other people have to say. >>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope >>> >>> The following description seems to define the handling, >> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to >> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) >> >> >>> when the >>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of >>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the >>> transport session? >>> >>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the >>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count >>> of zero. >>> >>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the >>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST >>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. >> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: >> >> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. >> > > IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility > of scope field zero. I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data records. And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords in drafts!) >> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, >> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. >> >> >>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template >>> >>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that >>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same >>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? >> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says >> each MP must use a different EP. >> >> P. >> > > Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics Option Template") says: Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. Therefore we included a test that ensures the Collecting Process is able to decode multiple scope elements in the MPSO. > It indicates the metering process id and observation domain id? Yes, the meteringProcessId. P. >>> If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the >>> tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template >>> containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause >>> the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and >>> >>> --- >>> Atsushi KOBAYASHI >>> NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. >>> tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 09:40:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ic6-0001yB-7k; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:40:18 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ic3-0001sa-DM for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:40:15 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5ibS-0004I1-27 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 09:40:15 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 03 Jul 2007 15:39:35 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAABbuiUaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPJAIJDiw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,492,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="147121381:sNHT1351695522" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l63DdWEr010136; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 15:39:32 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l63DdQTC022401; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 13:39:26 GMT Received: from [10.61.81.196] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4549.cisco.com [10.61.81.196]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25018; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 14:39:14 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:39:18 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=5408; t=1183469972; x=1184333972; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20WG=20Last=20Call=20for=20draft-ietf-ipfix-t esting-01.txt |Sender:=20; bh=kr5G62hd0QnakSVgMS9SMD1mdasVRVZ7iyHS6mqSrsE=; b=ls/3hmzF9WS29fbS3tB1C7Gd0/orvdEn9pH5SdTiZIK7eFMCouzKYFylYD2XHHEU7M0mkx+L a0PhVsoyUjR7xh/4FnGg9T0b6HwJQSJMzi1PL7UghR7usXwBWgspvFai; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 200d029292fbb60d25b263122ced50fc Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, >>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding >>> >>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP >>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. >>> >>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on >>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems >>> not to need to check the value of the padding. >>> >>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. >> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do >> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting >> Process's Side") is: >> >> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it >> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and >> SHOULD log the error. >> >> >> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: >> >> Padding >> For >> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of >> zero (0) valued octets. >> >> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, >> discard and log process must be followed. >> >> > > At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for > the collecting process. > I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record > seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not > malformed as IPFIX message. > "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. So let's see what other people have to say. >>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope >>> >>> The following description seems to define the handling, >> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to >> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) >> >> >>> when the >>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of >>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the >>> transport session? >>> >>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the >>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count >>> of zero. >>> >>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the >>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST >>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. >> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: >> >> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. >> > > IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility > of scope field zero. I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data records. And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords in drafts!) >> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, >> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. >> >> >>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template >>> >>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that >>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same >>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? >> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says >> each MP must use a different EP. >> >> P. >> > > Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics Option Template") says: Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. Therefore we included a test that ensures the Collecting Process is able to decode multiple scope elements in the MPSO. > It indicates the metering process id and observation domain id? Yes, the meteringProcessId. P. >>> If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the >>> tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template >>> containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause >>> the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and >>> >>> --- >>> Atsushi KOBAYASHI >>> NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. >>> tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From inbsw@entory.com Tue Jul 03 10:53:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5jl9-0004tQ-Sd for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:53:43 -0400 Received: from [202.59.206.70] (helo=iveoer) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5jkO-0001fX-Ls for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 10:53:43 -0400 Received: from pybs ([44.200.65.175]) by iveoer (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id l63Ewchw010785; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 21:58:38 +0700 Message-ID: <468A62F3.8080101@entory.com> Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2007 21:53:39 +0700 From: Gideon H. 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[10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5lyO-00083P-He; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:32 -0400 Received: from ns3.neustar.com ([156.154.24.138]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5lyO-0000dF-9N; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:32 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070B11764E; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I5lxt-00010t-Hm; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG 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This draft is a work item of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPFIX Applicability Author(s) : T. Zseby, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2007-7-3 In this document we describe the applicability of the IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) protocol for a variety of applications. We show how applications can use IPFIX, describe the relevant information elements (IEs) for those applications and present opportunities and limitations of the protocol. We furthermore describe relations of the IPFIX framework to other architectures and frameworks. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. 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Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3125339.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3125339.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --NextPart-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 13:15:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5lyh-00005o-F5; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:51 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5lyO-00083P-He; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:32 -0400 Received: from ns3.neustar.com ([156.154.24.138]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5lyO-0000dF-9N; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:32 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns3.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 070B11764E; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 17:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I5lxt-00010t-Hm; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 13:15:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c3a18ef96977fc9bcc21a621cbf1174b Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group of the IETF. Title : IPFIX Applicability Author(s) : T. Zseby, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2007-7-3 In this document we describe the applicability of the IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) protocol for a variety of applications. We show how applications can use IPFIX, describe the relevant information elements (IEs) for those applications and present opportunities and limitations of the protocol. We furthermore describe relations of the IPFIX framework to other architectures and frameworks. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. 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Wishing you the best, Administrator, greet2k.com From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 22:15:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5uOK-0000Ih-W8; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:14:53 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5uOK-0000ID-1Q for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:14:52 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5uNv-0000b6-MQ for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:14:52 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp-3-141.nttv6.com [192.47.163.141]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l642E6P4021034; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:14:16 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:14:08 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> References: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:14:16 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 43317e64100dd4d87214c51822b582d1 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Thank you for reply. Please see in-line. On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:39:18 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > >>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > >>> > >>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > >>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > >>> > >>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > >>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > >>> not to need to check the value of the padding. > >>> > >>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. > >> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do > >> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting > >> Process's Side") is: > >> > >> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it > >> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and > >> SHOULD log the error. > >> > >> > >> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: > >> > >> Padding > >> For > >> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > >> zero (0) valued octets. > >> > >> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, > >> discard and log process must be followed. > >> > >> > > > > At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for > > the collecting process. > > I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record > > seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. > > For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. > > However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any > other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export > - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > I understood the Collecting Process checks whether IPFIX messages are malformed and suspicious like padding between sets non-zero. > > > Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not > > malformed as IPFIX message. > > "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > > OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to > ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. > > So let's see what other people have to say. > > > >>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > >>> > >>> The following description seems to define the handling, > >> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to > >> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > >> > >> > >>> when the > >>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > >>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > >>> transport session? > >>> > >>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > >>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > >>> of zero. > >>> > >>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > >>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > >>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. > >> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: > >> > >> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. > >> > > > > IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility > > of scope field zero. > > I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe > our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope > information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data > records. > > And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. > > However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". > Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. > > I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. > > (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords > in drafts!) > I understood what you said. But, the Collecting Process should be allowed to receive the scope field count of zero, as long as IPFIX PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". We might interpret that the observation domain id in IPFIX header implicitly indicates a scope of whole message, in that case scope field might be considered needless. > > >> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, > >> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > >> > >> > >>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > >>> > >>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > >>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > >>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? > >> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says > >> each MP must use a different EP. > >> > >> P. > >> > > > > Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? > > Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics > Option Template") says: > > Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the > Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element > meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. > > I think that it is a little bit different condition. Above mention indicates that several Metering Processes are available on the Exporter Observation Domain. Test draft said that several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process. I think that metering process id seems to be needless if several Metering Process in different Observation Domain use same Exporting Process. I think that it could be better adding description related to the Observation Domain. Thanks, Atsushi KOBAYASHI > Therefore we included a test that ensures the Collecting Process is able > to decode multiple scope elements in the MPSO. > > > > It indicates the metering process id and observation domain id? > > Yes, the meteringProcessId. > > P. > > > >>> If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the > >>> tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template > >>> containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause > >>> the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Atsushi KOBAYASHI > >>> NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > >>> tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 03 22:15:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5uOK-0000Ih-W8; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:14:53 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5uOK-0000ID-1Q for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:14:52 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5uNv-0000b6-MQ for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 22:14:52 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (dhcp-3-141.nttv6.com [192.47.163.141]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l642E6P4021034; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:14:16 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:14:08 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> References: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:14:16 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 43317e64100dd4d87214c51822b582d1 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Thank you for reply. Please see in-line. On Tue, 03 Jul 2007 14:39:18 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > >>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > >>> > >>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > >>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > >>> > >>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > >>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > >>> not to need to check the value of the padding. > >>> > >>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. > >> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do > >> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting > >> Process's Side") is: > >> > >> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it > >> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and > >> SHOULD log the error. > >> > >> > >> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: > >> > >> Padding > >> For > >> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > >> zero (0) valued octets. > >> > >> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, > >> discard and log process must be followed. > >> > >> > > > > At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for > > the collecting process. > > I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record > > seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. > > For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. > > However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any > other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export > - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > I understood the Collecting Process checks whether IPFIX messages are malformed and suspicious like padding between sets non-zero. > > > Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not > > malformed as IPFIX message. > > "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > > OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to > ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. > > So let's see what other people have to say. > > > >>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > >>> > >>> The following description seems to define the handling, > >> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to > >> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > >> > >> > >>> when the > >>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > >>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > >>> transport session? > >>> > >>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > >>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > >>> of zero. > >>> > >>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > >>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > >>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. > >> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: > >> > >> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. > >> > > > > IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility > > of scope field zero. > > I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe > our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope > information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data > records. > > And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. > > However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". > Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. > > I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. > > (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords > in drafts!) > I understood what you said. But, the Collecting Process should be allowed to receive the scope field count of zero, as long as IPFIX PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". We might interpret that the observation domain id in IPFIX header implicitly indicates a scope of whole message, in that case scope field might be considered needless. > > >> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, > >> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > >> > >> > >>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > >>> > >>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > >>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > >>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? > >> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says > >> each MP must use a different EP. > >> > >> P. > >> > > > > Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? > > Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics > Option Template") says: > > Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the > Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element > meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. > > I think that it is a little bit different condition. Above mention indicates that several Metering Processes are available on the Exporter Observation Domain. Test draft said that several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process. I think that metering process id seems to be needless if several Metering Process in different Observation Domain use same Exporting Process. I think that it could be better adding description related to the Observation Domain. Thanks, Atsushi KOBAYASHI > Therefore we included a test that ensures the Collecting Process is able > to decode multiple scope elements in the MPSO. > > > > It indicates the metering process id and observation domain id? > > Yes, the meteringProcessId. > > P. > > > >>> If several Metering Processes use the same Exporting Process, the > >>> tester MUST create a Metering Process Statistics Option Template > >>> containing multiple scopes and an associated Data Record, MUST cause > >>> the Option Template and associated Data Record to be exported, and > >>> > >>> --- > >>> Atsushi KOBAYASHI > >>> NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. > >>> tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From mom@pfgnc.com Wed Jul 04 00:19:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5wKU-0001uC-SO; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 00:19:02 -0400 Received: from [58.140.36.230] (helo=[58.140.36.230]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5wJF-0000IZ-UZ; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 00:18:10 -0400 Received: from [58.140.36.230] by smtp1w.cfnmail.com; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 04:17:47 -0900 Message-ID: <01c7bdf2$474de110$e6248c3a@mom> From: "Karin Williams" To: Subject: Act Now Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2007 04:17:47 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7BE3D.B7358910" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7BE3D.B7358910 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you for your loan request, which we recieved yesterday.We'd like to inform you that we are accepting your application.We are ready to give you a $272,000 loan (Approved refinance) for a low month payment. 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Have you been waiting for a product to increase the amount of semen that you produce? http://btsdecf.com From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 04 06:01:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I61fo-0005Yt-Kn; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:01:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I61fg-0005VT-42 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:01:16 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I61fc-0002e7-F1 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:01:16 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Jul 2007 12:01:03 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADINi0aQ/uCLh2dsb2JhbACPHwEBCQ4s X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,496,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="147196658:sNHT222457788" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l64A13li010230; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:01:03 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l64A0vTC000601; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:00:57 GMT Received: from [144.254.153.43] (dhcp-144-254-153-43.cisco.com [144.254.153.43]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09555; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:00:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <468B6FDB.4000800@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:00:59 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7559; t=1183543263; x=1184407263; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20WG=20Last=20Call=20for=20draft-ietf-ipfix-t esting-01.txt |Sender:=20; bh=kF+IVrmncxJF9cBv4bPQFfPHq3izo5YSZ7IGxBE/Iq8=; b=rgSoIL0nWa3l1CtBqcNs61JXuZOkLYedI6d+SzYG7rckQeuPzJ0ow5vkUkHUgK7pQ4DLtME2 IbNJgua3tqtNGXpueGlPwXWb4JYRw8EPKe6bigHSYcU8gVs4pYa6bxuN; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a0494a0224ca59418dd8f92694c1fdb Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, >>>>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding >>>>> >>>>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP >>>>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. >>>>> >>>>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on >>>>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems >>>>> not to need to check the value of the padding. >>>>> >>>>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. >>>> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do >>>> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting >>>> Process's Side") is: >>>> >>>> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it >>>> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and >>>> SHOULD log the error. >>>> >>>> >>>> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: >>>> >>>> Padding >>>> For >>>> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of >>>> zero (0) valued octets. >>>> >>>> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, >>>> discard and log process must be followed. >>>> >>>> >>> At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for >>> the collecting process. >>> I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record >>> seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. >> For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. >> >> However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any >> other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export >> - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. >> > > I understood the Collecting Process checks whether IPFIX messages are > malformed and suspicious like padding between sets non-zero. Good, we agree. What about checking the value of "paddingOctets" within a Data Record? There are at least two places which specify that paddingOctets must consist of zero valued octets: [IPFIX-PROTO] 3.3.1 Set Format Padding The Exporting Process MAY insert some padding octets, so that the subsequent Set starts at an aligned boundary. For security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of zero (0) valued octets. [IPFIX-INFO] 5.12.1. paddingOctets Description: The value of this Information Element is always a sequence of 0x00 values. I believe we should include a test for that. However, with only an Exporting Process and a Collecting Process, it may be quite hard to ensure that the Exporting Process is sending 0x00 octets. Whereas it's a lot easier to ensure that the Collecting Process resets the connection when non-0x00 octets are sent. >>> Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not >>> malformed as IPFIX message. >>> "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. >> OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to >> ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. >> >> So let's see what other people have to say. Nothing so far, apparently :-( >>>>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope >>>>> >>>>> The following description seems to define the handling, >>>> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to >>>> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) >>>> >>>> >>>>> when the >>>>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of >>>>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the >>>>> transport session? >>>>> >>>>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the >>>>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count >>>>> of zero. >>>>> >>>>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the >>>>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST >>>>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. >>>> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: >>>> >>>> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. >>>> >>> IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility >>> of scope field zero. >> I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe >> our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope >> information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data >> records. >> >> And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. >> >> However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". >> Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. >> >> I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. >> >> (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords >> in drafts!) >> > > I understood what you said. But, the Collecting Process should be allowed > to receive the scope field count of zero, as long as IPFIX PROTOCOL draft > says "MAY NOT". Correct. However, as I already pointed out, "MAY NOT" is incorrect terminology (not in RFC 2119). I believe the intention was to say "MUST NOT". I've already contacted the IETF tools team and the author of idnits, who agree this term is misleading and are now thinking how to modify the tool to highlight such incorrect usage in future drafts. > We might interpret that the observation domain id in IPFIX header > implicitly indicates a scope of whole message, in that case scope field might > be considered needless. What is the difference between an Options Template with no scope and an ordinary Data Template? How do you think it would be useful to send Options with no scope? >>>> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, >>>> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. >>>> >>>> >>>>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template >>>>> >>>>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that >>>>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same >>>>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? >>>> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says >>>> each MP must use a different EP. >>>> >>>> P. >>>> >>> Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? >> Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics >> Option Template") says: >> >> Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the >> Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element >> meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. >> >> > > I think that it is a little bit different condition. > > Above mention indicates that several Metering Processes are available on > the Exporter Observation Domain. Test draft said that several Metering > Processes use the same Exporting Process. > > I think that metering process id seems to be needless if several > Metering Process in different Observation Domain use same Exporting > Process. I think that it could be better adding description related to > the Observation Domain. OK, I'll ensure the IPIFX-TESTING draft is corrected. Thanks. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 04 06:01:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I61fo-0005Yt-Kn; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:01:24 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I61fg-0005VT-42 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:01:16 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I61fc-0002e7-F1 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 06:01:16 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 04 Jul 2007 12:01:03 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAADINi0aQ/uCLh2dsb2JhbACPHwEBCQ4s X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,496,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="147196658:sNHT222457788" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l64A13li010230; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 12:01:03 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l64A0vTC000601; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 10:00:57 GMT Received: from [144.254.153.43] (dhcp-144-254-153-43.cisco.com [144.254.153.43]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA09555; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 11:00:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <468B6FDB.4000800@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:00:59 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=7559; t=1183543263; x=1184407263; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20WG=20Last=20Call=20for=20draft-ietf-ipfix-t esting-01.txt |Sender:=20; bh=kF+IVrmncxJF9cBv4bPQFfPHq3izo5YSZ7IGxBE/Iq8=; b=rgSoIL0nWa3l1CtBqcNs61JXuZOkLYedI6d+SzYG7rckQeuPzJ0ow5vkUkHUgK7pQ4DLtME2 IbNJgua3tqtNGXpueGlPwXWb4JYRw8EPKe6bigHSYcU8gVs4pYa6bxuN; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a0494a0224ca59418dd8f92694c1fdb Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, >>>>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding >>>>> >>>>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP >>>>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. >>>>> >>>>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on >>>>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems >>>>> not to need to check the value of the padding. >>>>> >>>>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. >>>> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do >>>> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting >>>> Process's Side") is: >>>> >>>> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it >>>> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and >>>> SHOULD log the error. >>>> >>>> >>>> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: >>>> >>>> Padding >>>> For >>>> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of >>>> zero (0) valued octets. >>>> >>>> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, >>>> discard and log process must be followed. >>>> >>>> >>> At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for >>> the collecting process. >>> I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record >>> seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. >> For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. >> >> However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any >> other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export >> - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. >> > > I understood the Collecting Process checks whether IPFIX messages are > malformed and suspicious like padding between sets non-zero. Good, we agree. What about checking the value of "paddingOctets" within a Data Record? There are at least two places which specify that paddingOctets must consist of zero valued octets: [IPFIX-PROTO] 3.3.1 Set Format Padding The Exporting Process MAY insert some padding octets, so that the subsequent Set starts at an aligned boundary. For security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of zero (0) valued octets. [IPFIX-INFO] 5.12.1. paddingOctets Description: The value of this Information Element is always a sequence of 0x00 values. I believe we should include a test for that. However, with only an Exporting Process and a Collecting Process, it may be quite hard to ensure that the Exporting Process is sending 0x00 octets. Whereas it's a lot easier to ensure that the Collecting Process resets the connection when non-0x00 octets are sent. >>> Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not >>> malformed as IPFIX message. >>> "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. >> OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to >> ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. >> >> So let's see what other people have to say. Nothing so far, apparently :-( >>>>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope >>>>> >>>>> The following description seems to define the handling, >>>> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to >>>> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) >>>> >>>> >>>>> when the >>>>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of >>>>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the >>>>> transport session? >>>>> >>>>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the >>>>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count >>>>> of zero. >>>>> >>>>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the >>>>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST >>>>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. >>>> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: >>>> >>>> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. >>>> >>> IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility >>> of scope field zero. >> I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe >> our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope >> information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data >> records. >> >> And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. >> >> However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". >> Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. >> >> I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. >> >> (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords >> in drafts!) >> > > I understood what you said. But, the Collecting Process should be allowed > to receive the scope field count of zero, as long as IPFIX PROTOCOL draft > says "MAY NOT". Correct. However, as I already pointed out, "MAY NOT" is incorrect terminology (not in RFC 2119). I believe the intention was to say "MUST NOT". I've already contacted the IETF tools team and the author of idnits, who agree this term is misleading and are now thinking how to modify the tool to highlight such incorrect usage in future drafts. > We might interpret that the observation domain id in IPFIX header > implicitly indicates a scope of whole message, in that case scope field might > be considered needless. What is the difference between an Options Template with no scope and an ordinary Data Template? How do you think it would be useful to send Options with no scope? >>>> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, >>>> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. >>>> >>>> >>>>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template >>>>> >>>>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that >>>>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same >>>>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? >>>> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says >>>> each MP must use a different EP. >>>> >>>> P. >>>> >>> Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? >> Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics >> Option Template") says: >> >> Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the >> Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element >> meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. >> >> > > I think that it is a little bit different condition. > > Above mention indicates that several Metering Processes are available on > the Exporter Observation Domain. Test draft said that several Metering > Processes use the same Exporting Process. > > I think that metering process id seems to be needless if several > Metering Process in different Observation Domain use same Exporting > Process. I think that it could be better adding description related to > the Observation Domain. OK, I'll ensure the IPIFX-TESTING draft is corrected. 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From fzcochrane@laoxiang.zzn.com Wed Jul 04 21:31:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6GBh-0007E2-Aw for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:31:17 -0400 Received: from [60.26.191.110] (helo=laoxiang.zzn.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6GBe-0002E3-Ij for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2007 21:31:17 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c7bee7$4115f7b0$10f0ff7c@jimmy7wn4z6sj6> From: "Jean Ali" To: "ipfix-archive" Subject: Stock Trader HOT Alert Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 09:29:15 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7BEE7.4115F7B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.1081 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2720.4682 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7BEE7.4115F7B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MRMT IS THE TRUE SUPERNOVA MONSTER MOTORS INC - Hires Award-Winning Design Studio for National = Branding Television Commercial Ticker: MRMT Trade: July 05 Thursday, 2007 MRMT Price: $0.6 Monday July 2, 9:00 am ET - News Release CHICAGO, IL--(MARKET WIRE)--Jul 2, 2007 Monster Motors, Inc. (Other OTC:MRMT.PK - News) announces a major = contract with top Commercial graphic producer Keech Studio for the = production of a National advertising spot for Monster Motors, Inc. The = Monster Motors commercial ad spot is designed for showing in Major cable = television Markets nationwide represented by Viamedia including those = markets serviced by Verizon FiOS, RCN, Knology, WOW, Surewest, New Wave, = Everest, Grande, Blue Ridge, Service Electric, CATV and Atlantic = Broadband. WATCH MRMT SHOOT THROUGH THE SKY THURSDAY! ------=_NextPart_000_000C_01C7BEE7.4115F7B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1251" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
MRMT IS THE TRUE = SUPERNOVA
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Monster Motors, Inc. = (Other OTC:MRMT.PK - News) announces a major contract with top = Commercial graphic producer Keech Studio for the production of a = National advertising spot for Monster Motors, Inc. The Monster Motors = commercial ad spot is designed for showing in Major cable television = Markets nationwide represented by Viamedia including those markets = serviced by Verizon FiOS, RCN, Knology, WOW, Surewest, New Wave, = Everest, Grande, Blue Ridge, Service Electric, CATV and Atlantic = Broadband.
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= ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7BD74.3758F020-- From uon@adelphia.com Thu Jul 05 03:49:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6M5c-0000WA-Sv for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 03:49:24 -0400 Received: from [89.123.190.255] (helo=czlgrkj) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6M5X-0007Ht-SA for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 03:49:24 -0400 Received: from [216.110.161.159] (helo=xkply) by czlgrkj with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1I6M9Î-0001b0-Pw; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:52:25 +0300 Message-ID: <468CA291.5010105@adelphia.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 10:49:37 +0300 From: Moreno Fidelia User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Re: message.pdf Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050506020003070107000708" X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 65bc4909d78e8b10349def623cf7a1d1 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Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 16:15:58 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C19261.DEA801C0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1478 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1478 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C19261.DEA801C0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MegaDik Pills are a unique blend of all natural and FDA approved ingredient= s. FACT: In a recent survey by Durex Condoms, 67% of all women admitted tha= t they are unhappy with their partner's penis size. This proves that size r= eally does matter.http://btyqcy.comForget about your partner faking her org= asm or not being able to please her. 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Something more fun. ------=_NextPart_000_0020_8453BE5B.4011BA67-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 05 12:06:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6TqL-0007Rh-UJ; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:06:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6TqK-0007R2-4b for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:06:08 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6TpM-0002LR-Di for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:06:08 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l65G4pn5039739; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 01:04:52 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:04:53 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <468B6FDB.4000800@cisco.com> References: <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468B6FDB.4000800@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070706002846.B321.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:04:53 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: e367d58950869b6582535ddf5a673488 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul-san, On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:00:59 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > >>>>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > >>>>> > >>>>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > >>>>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > >>>>> > >>>>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > >>>>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > >>>>> not to need to check the value of the padding. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. > >>>> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do > >>>> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting > >>>> Process's Side") is: > >>>> > >>>> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it > >>>> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and > >>>> SHOULD log the error. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: > >>>> > >>>> Padding > >>>> For > >>>> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > >>>> zero (0) valued octets. > >>>> > >>>> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, > >>>> discard and log process must be followed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for > >>> the collecting process. > >>> I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record > >>> seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. > >> For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. > >> > >> However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any > >> other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export > >> - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > >> > > > > I understood the Collecting Process checks whether IPFIX messages are > > malformed and suspicious like padding between sets non-zero. > > Good, we agree. > > What about checking the value of "paddingOctets" within a Data Record? > > There are at least two places which specify that paddingOctets must > consist of zero valued octets: > > > [IPFIX-PROTO] 3.3.1 Set Format > > Padding > The Exporting Process MAY insert some padding octets, so that > the subsequent Set starts at an aligned boundary. For > security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > zero (0) valued octets. > > > [IPFIX-INFO] 5.12.1. paddingOctets > > Description: > The value of this Information Element is always a sequence of 0x00 > values. > > > I believe we should include a test for that. However, with only an > Exporting Process and a Collecting Process, it may be quite hard to > ensure that the Exporting Process is sending 0x00 octets. Whereas it's a > lot easier to ensure that the Collecting Process resets the connection > when non-0x00 octets are sent. > I think the test for the "paddingOctets" is need, too. But, I think that checking value of each field in Data Record is not task of the Collecting Process. If it is so, the Collecting Process needs to know the attribute of all Information Elements, and check the validation for received Data Records. It seems to be too far. > > >>> Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not > >>> malformed as IPFIX message. > >>> "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > >> OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to > >> ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. > >> > >> So let's see what other people have to say. > > Nothing so far, apparently :-( > > > >>>>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > >>>>> > >>>>> The following description seems to define the handling, > >>>> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to > >>>> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> when the > >>>>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > >>>>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > >>>>> transport session? > >>>>> > >>>>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > >>>>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > >>>>> of zero. > >>>>> > >>>>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > >>>>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > >>>>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. > >>>> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: > >>>> > >>>> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. > >>>> > >>> IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility > >>> of scope field zero. > >> I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe > >> our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope > >> information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data > >> records. > >> > >> And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. > >> > >> However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". > >> Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. > >> > >> I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. > >> > >> (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords > >> in drafts!) > >> > > > > I understood what you said. But, the Collecting Process should be allowed > > to receive the scope field count of zero, as long as IPFIX PROTOCOL draft > > says "MAY NOT". > > Correct. However, as I already pointed out, "MAY NOT" is incorrect > terminology (not in RFC 2119). I believe the intention was to say "MUST > NOT". > > I've already contacted the IETF tools team and the author of idnits, who > agree this term is misleading and are now thinking how to modify the > tool to highlight such incorrect usage in future drafts. > > OK, I hope that "MAY NOT" will be changed in the near future. > > We might interpret that the observation domain id in IPFIX header > > implicitly indicates a scope of whole message, in that case scope field might > > be considered needless. > > What is the difference between an Options Template with no scope and an > ordinary Data Template? > > How do you think it would be useful to send Options with no scope? > I don't have strong opinion. I am afraid of misleading about IPFIX protocol draft and IPFIX Testing draft. > > >>>> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, > >>>> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > >>>>> > >>>>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > >>>>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > >>>>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? > >>>> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says > >>>> each MP must use a different EP. > >>>> > >>>> P. > >>>> > >>> Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? > >> Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics > >> Option Template") says: > >> > >> Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the > >> Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element > >> meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. > >> > >> > > > > I think that it is a little bit different condition. > > > > Above mention indicates that several Metering Processes are available on > > the Exporter Observation Domain. Test draft said that several Metering > > Processes use the same Exporting Process. > > > > I think that metering process id seems to be needless if several > > Metering Process in different Observation Domain use same Exporting > > Process. I think that it could be better adding description related to > > the Observation Domain. > > OK, I'll ensure the IPIFX-TESTING draft is corrected. > > Thanks. > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 05 12:06:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6TqL-0007Rh-UJ; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:06:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6TqK-0007R2-4b for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:06:08 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6TpM-0002LR-Di for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 12:06:08 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l65G4pn5039739; Fri, 6 Jul 2007 01:04:52 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:04:53 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt In-Reply-To: <468B6FDB.4000800@cisco.com> References: <20070704094229.1140.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468B6FDB.4000800@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070706002846.B321.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Fri, 06 Jul 2007 01:04:53 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: e367d58950869b6582535ddf5a673488 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul-san, On Wed, 04 Jul 2007 11:00:59 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > >>>>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding > >>>>> > >>>>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the SCTP > >>>>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. > >>>>> > >>>>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on > >>>>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems > >>>>> not to need to check the value of the padding. > >>>>> > >>>>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. > >>>> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what to do > >>>> in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The Collecting > >>>> Process's Side") is: > >>>> > >>>> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it > >>>> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and > >>>> SHOULD log the error. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: > >>>> > >>>> Padding > >>>> For > >>>> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > >>>> zero (0) valued octets. > >>>> > >>>> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the shutdown, > >>>> discard and log process must be followed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>> At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for > >>> the collecting process. > >>> I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record > >>> seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting process. > >> For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. > >> > >> However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any > >> other process; they're more about the structure and format of the export > >> - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > >> > > > > I understood the Collecting Process checks whether IPFIX messages are > > malformed and suspicious like padding between sets non-zero. > > Good, we agree. > > What about checking the value of "paddingOctets" within a Data Record? > > There are at least two places which specify that paddingOctets must > consist of zero valued octets: > > > [IPFIX-PROTO] 3.3.1 Set Format > > Padding > The Exporting Process MAY insert some padding octets, so that > the subsequent Set starts at an aligned boundary. For > security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of > zero (0) valued octets. > > > [IPFIX-INFO] 5.12.1. paddingOctets > > Description: > The value of this Information Element is always a sequence of 0x00 > values. > > > I believe we should include a test for that. However, with only an > Exporting Process and a Collecting Process, it may be quite hard to > ensure that the Exporting Process is sending 0x00 octets. Whereas it's a > lot easier to ensure that the Collecting Process resets the connection > when non-0x00 octets are sent. > I think the test for the "paddingOctets" is need, too. But, I think that checking value of each field in Data Record is not task of the Collecting Process. If it is so, the Collecting Process needs to know the attribute of all Information Elements, and check the validation for received Data Records. It seems to be too far. > > >>> Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not > >>> malformed as IPFIX message. > >>> "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > >> OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to > >> ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. > >> > >> So let's see what other people have to say. > > Nothing so far, apparently :-( > > > >>>>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope > >>>>> > >>>>> The following description seems to define the handling, > >>>> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to > >>>> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> when the > >>>>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of > >>>>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the > >>>>> transport session? > >>>>> > >>>>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the > >>>>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count > >>>>> of zero. > >>>>> > >>>>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the > >>>>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST > >>>>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. > >>>> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: > >>>> > >>>> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. > >>>> > >>> IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility > >>> of scope field zero. > >> I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe > >> our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope > >> information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary data > >> records. > >> > >> And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. > >> > >> However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST NOT". > >> Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. > >> > >> I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. > >> > >> (And also, we should be more stringent about checking RFC 2119 keywords > >> in drafts!) > >> > > > > I understood what you said. But, the Collecting Process should be allowed > > to receive the scope field count of zero, as long as IPFIX PROTOCOL draft > > says "MAY NOT". > > Correct. However, as I already pointed out, "MAY NOT" is incorrect > terminology (not in RFC 2119). I believe the intention was to say "MUST > NOT". > > I've already contacted the IETF tools team and the author of idnits, who > agree this term is misleading and are now thinking how to modify the > tool to highlight such incorrect usage in future drafts. > > OK, I hope that "MAY NOT" will be changed in the near future. > > We might interpret that the observation domain id in IPFIX header > > implicitly indicates a scope of whole message, in that case scope field might > > be considered needless. > > What is the difference between an Options Template with no scope and an > ordinary Data Template? > > How do you think it would be useful to send Options with no scope? > I don't have strong opinion. I am afraid of misleading about IPFIX protocol draft and IPFIX Testing draft. > > >>>> So a scope field count of zero constitutes a malformed IPFIX Message, > >>>> and the shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. > >>>> > >>>> > >>>>> - 3.4.3. Metering Process Statistics Option Template > >>>>> > >>>>> It is not clear as following description. It seems to be condition that > >>>>> several Metering Process on the same Observation Domain use the same > >>>>> Exporting Process. Is it correct? > >>>> I think it's quite possible, since I don't see any exclusion which says > >>>> each MP must use a different EP. > >>>> > >>>> P. > >>>> > >>> Why are multiple scopes needed in following cases? > >> Because section 4.1 of [IPFIX-PROTO] ("The Metering Process Statistics > >> Option Template") says: > >> > >> Note that if several Metering Processes are available on the > >> Exporter Observation Domain, the Information Element > >> meteringProcessId MUST be specified as an additional Scope Field. > >> > >> > > > > I think that it is a little bit different condition. > > > > Above mention indicates that several Metering Processes are available on > > the Exporter Observation Domain. Test draft said that several Metering > > Processes use the same Exporting Process. > > > > I think that metering process id seems to be needless if several > > Metering Process in different Observation Domain use same Exporting > > Process. I think that it could be better adding description related to > > the Observation Domain. > > OK, I'll ensure the IPIFX-TESTING draft is corrected. > > Thanks. > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From jht@uppercrustbaking.com Thu Jul 05 16:26:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6XuX-0008DV-98; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:26:45 -0400 Received: from [189.173.75.60] (helo=[189.173.75.60]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6XuW-0006CT-LM; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:26:45 -0400 Received: from [189.173.75.60] by smtp.secureserver.net; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:26:51 +0700 Message-ID: <01c7bf42$d1d76710$3c4badbd@jht> From: "Rufus Fry" To: Subject: you save US $ 369.05 ACROBAT V8.0 US $ 79.95 Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 20:26:51 +0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2741.2600 X-Spam-Score: 0.2 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 $149.95 CREATIVE 2 http://mutasofte.com From sirrs@skadden.com Thu Jul 05 16:29:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6Xwm-0000x2-CM for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:29:04 -0400 Received: from [66.173.114.68] (helo=uslink-66.173.114-68.uslink.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I6XwG-0004r2-SI for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2007 16:29:04 -0400 Received: from grsy ([126.172.226.83]) by uslink-66.173.114-68.uslink.net (8.13.2/8.13.2) with SMTP id l65KSqap016986; Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:28:52 -0500 Message-ID: <468D53EB.1060500@skadden.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2007 15:26:19 -0500 From: Frederik U. 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helo=TACAF4898Z6XPB5.maskatel.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7BRq-0002Yn-OX for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 10:39:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c7c083$1f4f06b0$00647874@TACAF4898Z6XPB5> From: "Lucia Phipps" To: "ipfix-archive" Subject: Thanks, we accepted your loan request Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2007 10:37:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7C083.1F4F06B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.0000 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7C083.1F4F06B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your credit doesn't matter to us! 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------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7C083.1F4F06B0-- From tosupapanyip@sn4all.ro Sat Jul 07 18:58:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7JEO-0005Yt-Cu; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:58:24 -0400 Received: from 89-34-114-180.sn4all.ro ([89.34.114.180] helo=sn4all.ro) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7JEI-0004kx-M7; Sat, 07 Jul 2007 18:58:24 -0400 Message-ID: Reply-To: "Donella Ortiz" From: "Donella Ortiz" To: "Shonda" Cc: "Nettie" , "Kirby" , "Aubrey" , "Danae" , "Marchelle" , "Renita Washington" , "Gracia Garcia" Subject: Everything kool Date: Sun, 08 Jul 2007 08:30:50 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_BD9_B9DF_A0599B30.4C21D8BA" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: bdfdd9dd835c9bb499f7c92933fef080 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_BD9_B9DF_A0599B30.4C21D8BA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_CAD_B0A8_E7612692.40CEAF78" ------=_NextPart_CAD_B0A8_E7612692.40CEAF78 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable cycle famous pocket Aut humana year parum cavit natura----_ The learned r= eader must have hurt observed that in the course of this mighty work, bit= minute I paste have often translate geoponic The highwayman was full of = expressions of thankfulness tactic and hat gratitude. sharp He actually d= ropt tears, or pr sun Susan moon fork departed, and soon returned with strod an account tha= t the two gentlemen were got both into the same trace engine and thing bi= t most obedient humble While he was effect meditating pour on these matte= rs, witty he received the knife following note from the lady:-- When Jone= s had read this letter, busy shaggy they both stood violently silent duri= ng a yell minute, looking at each other; at l "Bring step me here," country he cried box to the dwarf, "a thousand Nibe= lung shaggy knights." At the call of the dwarf the After conquering wall = the Vandals Justinian resolved to vulpine conquer Italy, which was swept = then breath held by the Ostrogo A very genteel screw man now entered the = curve room; who, having made his decide compliments to fine the squire, a= nd desired Access to the young lady was by no means difficult; frightened= for, memory as she lived wax now ear on a perfect friendly foot Mrs Wate= rs remaining a few applaud moments silent, form Mr Allworthy could not pl= ough refrain from ate saying, "I am sorry, But where remove the beauties,= fast more moan spicy in number, shine, Our awoke travellers having carriage remounted their horses, arrived ball= in rejoice town without encountering any new mishap. O As root soon as t= hey reached Worms the marriage of Gunther and satisfy Brunhilda decide to= ok place. almost Siegfried and Kriemh In these censures my landlady did = Mr seek by Fitzpatrick great injustice; for whip he was level really born= a gentleman This gentleman then being well tired with his long journey from Chester a= nnoyed in one said smash day, burn with which, and servant, "Sir, I know come place to wait said upon form you by the comma= nd of my Lord Fellamar; but with a very different message This conduct in= built writing chin is placed in a very look proper potato light by the i= ngenious Abbe Bannier, in his prefa "A very foolish, but a very peace pe= rverse accident hath happened since shiny proud back our last meeting, wh= ich makes it i To fill worn cerotic up a death work with these scraps may, indeed, outgo= ing be considered as a downright cheat on the learned w This disappointme= nt, perhaps, drawer ear the reader may conclude was not shot very great; = but if it was, led he was quic HARRIET FITZPATRICK." "I have whip altered= representative whirl my mind since I wrote; a change suffer which, if yo= u are no stranger to the tenderest of al ------=_NextPart_CAD_B0A8_E7612692.40CEAF78 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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cycle famous pocket Aut humana year parum cavit n= atura----_ The learned reader must have hurt observed that in the course = of this mighty work, bit minute I paste have often translate geoponic The= highwayman was full of expressions of thankfulness tactic and hat gratit= ude. sharp He actually dropt tears, or pr
 
sun Susan moon fork departed, and soon returned w= ith strod an account that the two gentlemen were got both into the same t= race engine and thing bit most obedient humble While he was effect m= editating pour on these matters, witty he received the knife following no= te from the lady:-- When Jones had read this letter, busy shaggy the= y both stood violently silent during a yell minute, looking at each other= ; at l  
"Bring step me here," country he cried box to the= dwarf, "a thousand Nibelung shaggy knights." At the call of the dwarf th= e After conquering wall the Vandals Justinian resolved to vulpine conquer= Italy, which was swept then breath held by the Ostrogo A very genteel sc= rew man now entered the curve room; who, having made his decide complimen= ts to fine the squire, and desired Access to the young lady was by no mea= ns difficult; frightened for, memory as she lived wax now ear on a perfec= t friendly foot Mrs Waters remaining a few applaud moments silent, form M= r Allworthy could not plough refrain from ate saying, "I am sorry, But wh= ere remove the beauties, fast more moan spicy in number, shine,
Our awoke travellers having carriage remounted th= eir horses, arrived ball in rejoice town without encountering any new mis= hap. O As root soon as they reached Worms the marriage of Gunther and sat= isfy Brunhilda decide took place. almost Siegfried and Kriemh  = In these censures my landlady did Mr seek by Fitzpatrick great injustice;= for whip he was level really born a gentleman
 
This gentleman then being well tired with his lon= g journey from Chester annoyed in one said smash day, burn with which, an= d
servant,  "Sir, I know come place to wa= it said upon form you by the command of my Lord Fellamar; but with a very= different message This conduct in built writing chin is placed in a very= look proper potato light by the ingenious Abbe Bannier, in his prefa&nbs= p; "A very foolish, but a very peace perverse accident hath happened= since shiny proud back our last meeting, which makes it i
To fill worn cerotic up a death work with these s= craps may, indeed, outgoing be considered as a downright cheat on the lea= rned w This disappointment, perhaps, drawer ear the reader may conclude w= as not shot very great; but if it was, led he was quic HARRIET FITZPATRIC= K." "I have whip altered representative whirl my mind since I wrote; a ch= ange suffer which, if you are no stranger to the tenderest of al
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D/7wi3/85C+/+c+P/vSrf/3sb7/73w//+Mt//vSvv/3vj//863///HdVCAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_BD9_B9DF_A0599B30.4C21D8BA-- From bob@chicdesignstudio.com Sun Jul 08 06:02:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7Tad-0002Pn-HA; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:02:03 -0400 Received: from sw73-10-7.adsl.seed.net.tw ([203.73.10.7]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7TaX-0004I9-KP; Sun, 08 Jul 2007 06:02:03 -0400 Received: from [203.73.10.7] by mx1.biz.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 8 Jul 2007 10:01:54 -0800 Message-ID: <01c7c147$0373ada0$070a49cb@bob> From: "Robert Meredith" To: Subject: Fast, effective results including, above all, a greater volume of ejaculate. 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From lnkr@havocware.com Mon Jul 09 09:08:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7syw-0008Pc-CC for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:08:51 -0400 Received: from [59.177.13.141] (helo=triband-del-59.177.13.141.bol.net.in) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7syr-00071V-Aq for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:08:50 -0400 Received: from [159.152.38.108] (helo=ser) by triband-del-59.177.13.141.bol.net.in with smtp (Exim 4.62 (FreeBSD)) id 1I8/zD-0007LP-L2; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:39:07 +0530 Message-ID: <46923358.8070701@havocware.com> Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 18:38:40 +0530 From: Juliet J. Hardin User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: The once-lucrative market gardening sector has proved disastrously unprofitable, as goods crossings have remained closed and produce has had to be thrown away. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac VPSN WILL MOVE LIKE A COMET AND ITS ONLY GOING TO GET BETTER! Watch this SUPERNOVA closely MONDAY! VISION AIRSHIPS INC Symbol: VPSN Price: $0.021 BANGKOK, THAILAND, July 2007 Advertising Agencies Ready to Ink Deals! The company wishes to announce that it is in final negotiations for representation with some of the world's largest advertising agencies to market and reserve the blimps for there clients. VPSN THE RISING STAR, IS SET FOR SUPERNOVA STATUS ON MONDAY! "They are everywhere," he said in exasperation. We don't know who they are, because they all wear the same uniform and they cover their faces. I cannot imagine how it must feel to be sitting in your own home, and suddenly come under attack by extremists. We found little faith in the police amongst the shoppers in the Nablus market. Israeli shelling and rocket attacks, meanwhile, which Israel says are meant to stop the rocket fire, have killed dozens of Gazans, including many civilians. I showed them my ID and my news card. Here in Rafah it is quiet, but it's still not safe to go around. So for a few metres I faced them as I walked away and kept eye contact. Funerals have been going on this afternoon. What if I'd ended up being paralysed by that stupid young man? I fought the Israelis with them. We had to protect ourselves. We have nothing Yousef Uzreel Nablus police chief The West Bank town of Nablus has often been likened to the Wild West. "Let's shoot him in the legs," said the other. The Lebanese government sees the hand of Syria behind Fatah al-Islam. You will hear complaints at bus stops all over town. "I said to him look, if you bring me a code of Jewish law and show me where it's written that I have to sit at the back of the bus I'll move. They are still a couple caught in the middle of the Israeli Palestinian conflict. Condoleezza Rice said the meeting had been "useful and productive". However, it was obliged by international pressure to abandon the plan and it handed over responsibility for the border to Egypt. People are under tremendous psychological stress. His gang is among those staging street battles with the Nablus police. Here in Nahr al-Bared camp, the people are so lovely and they live in peace. And we couldn't do anything about it. "I used to be one of them. I think it was a sniper's bullet, because it came from very high. The sunlight is so harsh you have to squint to look at the view. Although they rarely kill, they are designed to. Quickly I realized that it must have been a religious group that don't sit together. We go up onto the roof of their village home. However, one time I got lost in one of those religious streets. However, it was obliged by international pressure to abandon the plan and it handed over responsibility for the border to Egypt. Officially goods can enter from Egypt by the Kerem Shalom crossing and from Israel via the Sufa and Karni crossings, both of which are controlled by the Israeli army. First they tried to live in Israel, but the Israeli authorities would not allow Osama to join his wife there. The streets are full of masked, armed men - some are positioned on roof tops, it's too dangerous to go out. I know how they think, how they feel, what they need," he says. They kept the other guy - I don't know what happened to him. The country's proximity to Israel - and the presence of a large number of Palestinian refugees on its soil - mean it is also intimately tied to the Arab-Israeli dispute. From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 09 09:24:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tDx-0007Xk-Ns; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:24:21 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tDi-00075x-2p; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:24:07 -0400 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tDg-0007Ol-Jy; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:24:05 -0400 Received: from [10.1.1.104] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D869C13CF82; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:23:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:24:02 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.5 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Please post draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Please publish the following document as Internet Draft: ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt Please announce the I-D ACTION also to the ipfix mailing list at ipfix@ietf.org Thank you, Juergen -- Juergen Quittek quittek@netlab.nec.de Tel: +49 6221 4342-115 NEC Europe Limited, Network Laboratories Fax: +49 6221 4342-155 Kurfuersten-Anlage 36, 69115 Heidelberg, Germany http://www.netlab.nec.de Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL, UK Registered in England 2832014 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 09 09:24:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tDx-0007Xk-Ns; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:24:21 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tDi-00075x-2p; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:24:07 -0400 Received: from kyoto.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.21]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7tDg-0007Ol-Jy; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 09:24:05 -0400 Received: from [10.1.1.104] (mito.netlab.nec.de [195.37.70.39]) by kyoto.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id D869C13CF82; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 15:23:58 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:24:02 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-ID: X-Mailer: Mulberry/4.0.5 (Mac OS X) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Please post draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi, Please publish the following document as Internet Draft: ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt Please announce the I-D ACTION also to the ipfix mailing list at ipfix@ietf.org Thank you, Juergen -- Juergen Quittek quittek@netlab.nec.de Tel: +49 6221 4342-115 NEC Europe Limited, Network Laboratories Fax: +49 6221 4342-155 Kurfuersten-Anlage 36, 69115 Heidelberg, Germany http://www.netlab.nec.de Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL, UK Registered in England 2832014 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 09 10:21:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7u7B-0006F4-FH; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:21:25 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7u7A-0006DW-EJ; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:21:24 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7u79-0000DN-VM; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:21:24 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F9B200018A; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eJOl3xHwVM6p; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F6720102C9; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:05 +0200 (CEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:06 +0200 Message-ID: <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF91CA@mx1.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Please post draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt thread-index: AcfCNGNgwTi4F7RKQzuhBR47DCUAug== From: "Thomas Dietz" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek Subject: [IPFIX] Please post draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1675472477==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1675472477== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=SHA1; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01C7C245.26EB5F40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01C7C245.26EB5F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, please publish the following document as Internet Draft: ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt Please announce the I-D ACTION also to the ipfix mailing list at ipfix@ietf.org Thank you. Thomas -- Thomas Dietz E-mail: Thomas.Dietz@netlab.nec.de NEC Europe Ltd. Phone: +49 6221 4342-128 NEC Laboratories Europe Fax: +49 6221 4342-155 Network Division Kurfuersten-Anlage 36 69115 Heidelberg, Germany http://www.netlab.nec.de NEC Europe Limited Registered in England 2832014 Registered Office: NEC House, 1 Victoria Road, London W3 6BL ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01C7C245.26EB5F40 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJfTCCAwUw ggJuoAMCAQICEDNPKBqVVn29xxL8Ep6jwQAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA2MDgwMzE0NTMyNVoXDTA3MDgwMzE0NTMy NVowYzEOMAwGA1UEBBMFRGlldHoxDzANBgNVBCoTBlRob21hczEVMBMGA1UEAxMMVGhvbWFzIERp ZXR6MSkwJwYJKoZIhvcNAQkBFhpUaG9tYXMuRGlldHpAbmV0bGFiLm5lYy5kZTCCASIwDQYJKoZI 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Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56F9B200018A; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:15 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id eJOl3xHwVM6p; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36F6720102C9; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:05 +0200 (CEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2007 16:21:06 +0200 Message-ID: <5F6519BF2DE0404D99B7C75607FF76FF91CA@mx1.office> X-MS-Has-Attach: yes X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Please post draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt thread-index: AcfCNGNgwTi4F7RKQzuhBR47DCUAug== From: "Thomas Dietz" To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek Subject: [IPFIX] Please post draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1675472477==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1675472477== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=SHA1; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_007F_01C7C245.26EB5F40" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_007F_01C7C245.26EB5F40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi, please publish the following document as Internet Draft: ftp://ftp.netlab.nec.de/pub/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt Please announce the I-D ACTION also to the ipfix mailing list at ipfix@ietf.org Thank you. Thomas -- Thomas Dietz E-mail: Thomas.Dietz@netlab.nec.de NEC Europe Ltd. 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"Winfred Lewis" , "Roslyn Reyes" , "Karoline" , "Odessa" , "Joana Lewis" Subject: Happy with them all Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 04:52:46 -1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_CEB_FA3A_8F3FD694.6EE0943B" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: df1883a27a831c1ea5e8cfe5eb3ad38e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_CEB_FA3A_8F3FD694.6EE0943B Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_ACA_F7AC_3D3CA1AA.D4F2BEE8" ------=_NextPart_ACA_F7AC_3D3CA1AA.D4F2BEE8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sophia, who was around meeting yielding to an excess, when sleep sold she= could neither laugh nor reason her cousin out of the He then filled a bu= mper mental value of wine, respect and drunk it off to the health of his = coat dear Lalage; and, filling Dow shiver blade If the map obtain reader = will please to remember that the acquaintance which Sophia had with Lady = Bellaston was Now, as enthusiastic the cycle judge honesty of Partridge was equal to hi= s understanding, and cheer both dealt only in small matter LETTER I. put = And now the two blade ladies sticky separated, infinitely more to osteoid= the delight of Sophia than of Lady Bellaston, w position contain Jones g= reatly upheld approved the hint, and promised to strive pursue it. They t= hen separated, Nightingale to visi So spell Alaric called his chiefs together polish and potato swift told t= hem what he had made up his mind to do. While structure he was bathe mayo= r position of the palace he led armies edge in several wars against the e= nemies of the Franks. Th snow We insect discussion shall therefore take o= ur leave at present of Sophia, and, with puzzled our usual good-breeding,= attend he Allworthy said, there were few characters so start absolutely = vicious taurine bee as not to have the handle least mixture of butter sta= r strap The joy which insurance Mrs Miller now felt bereft her of the pow= er of speech, and might perhaps have deprived When never dress our young = ladies had determined to remain hot all that evening in promise their inn= they were attended by t After division much slope consideration, therefore, she resolved to go ea= rly in the morning bridge square to that lady, and endea The chiefs gave = a bread cry tall of delight for they mouth approved of the film king's pr= oposal. In those days fighting wa communicate The serjeant was just marc= hed off with his party, when record the two Irish gentlemen waste arose, = take and came downs rush The coach which had brought the young noisily lady and her destroy m= aid, and which, wake perhaps, the reader may have hit "If you ever expect to be worm forgiven, touch or even suffered repeat wi= thin my doors, come to drawn me this instant." "I will answer it with cu= rious my life," stupid cried Mrs Western, "but I shall stocking not inter= meddle tumble at all, unless upon Jones now carriage declared weight that= they must certainly have lost their way; but this crush the in guide ins= isted upon wa To say the fight truth, I require no more than drop that k= ettle cuddly a man should have some little knowledge of the subject It is not, perhaps, easy for spoon a reader, who hath never been in those= shrill circumstances, uphold to shiver imagine the ho To avoid a feeling= multiplicity of examples in so plain a case, and to come cruelly at once= to step easily my point, I am apt to "I puzzled now find you was not acc= ept at home when my notes wheel came to your doubt lodgings. The moment y= ou receive this let This is a knowledge silver unhappily not in the power= of many authors to house hope arrive authority at. Books will give us a = ve ------=_NextPart_ACA_F7AC_3D3CA1AA.D4F2BEE8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
 
Sophia, who was around meeting yielding to an exc= ess, when sleep sold she could neither laugh nor reason her cousin out of= the He then filled a bumper mental value of wine, respect and drunk it o= ff to the health of his coat dear Lalage; and, filling Dow shiver blade I= f the map obtain reader will please to remember that the acquaintance whi= ch Sophia had with Lady Bellaston was
 
Now, as enthusiastic the cycle judge honesty of P= artridge was equal to his understanding, and cheer both dealt only in sma= ll matter LETTER I. put And now the two blade ladies sticky separate= d, infinitely more to osteoid the delight of Sophia than of Lady Bellasto= n, w position contain Jones greatly upheld approved the hint, and pr= omised to strive pursue it. They then separated, Nightingale to visi = ; 
So spell Alaric called his chiefs together polish= and potato swift told them what he had made up his mind to do. While str= ucture he was bathe mayor position of the palace he led armies edge in se= veral wars against the enemies of the Franks. Th snow We insect discussio= n shall therefore take our leave at present of Sophia, and, with puzzled = our usual good-breeding, attend he Allworthy said, there were few charact= ers so start absolutely vicious taurine bee as not to have the handle lea= st mixture of butter star strap The joy which insurance Mrs Miller now fe= lt bereft her of the power of speech, and might perhaps have deprived Whe= n never dress our young ladies had determined to remain hot all that even= ing in promise their inn they were attended by t
After division much slope consideration, therefor= e, she resolved to go early in the morning bridge square to that lady, an= d endea The chiefs gave a bread cry tall of delight for they mouth approv= ed of the film king's proposal. In those days fighting wa  comm= unicate The serjeant was just marched off with his party, when record the= two Irish gentlemen waste arose, take and came downs
 
rush The coach which had brought the young noisil= y lady and her destroy maid, and which, wake perhaps, the reader may have= hit
"If you ever expect to be worm forgiven, touch or= even suffered repeat within my doors, come to drawn me this instant."&nb= sp; "I will answer it with curious my life," stupid cried Mrs Wester= n, "but I shall stocking not intermeddle tumble at all, unless upon Jones= now carriage declared weight that they must certainly have lost their wa= y; but this crush the in guide insisted upon wa  To say the fig= ht truth, I require no more than drop that kettle cuddly a man should hav= e some little knowledge of the subject
It is not, perhaps, easy for spoon a reader, who = hath never been in those shrill circumstances, uphold to shiver imagine t= he ho To avoid a feeling multiplicity of examples in so plain a case, and= to come cruelly at once to step easily my point, I am apt to "I puzzled = now find you was not accept at home when my notes wheel came to your doub= t lodgings. The moment you receive this let This is a knowledge silver un= happily not in the power of many authors to house hope arrive authority a= t. Books will give us a ve
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Delivery to the following recipients failed. ipfittipaldi@facepe.pe.gov.br --9B095B5ADSN=_01C7C21AF4AA0108000043ADexchserver.FACEP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: message/delivery-status thread-index: AcfCnvQ2qrpZdtHYS2yxCT/1hgNGUQ== Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 Reporting-MTA: dns;exchserver.FACEPE.local Received-From-MTA: dns;usuario-216829d Arrival-Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:03:51 -0300 Final-Recipient: rfc822;ipfittipaldi@facepe.pe.gov.br Action: failed Status: 5.1.1 --9B095B5ADSN=_01C7C21AF4AA0108000043ADexchserver.FACEP Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: message/rfc822 thread-index: AcfCnvLHKnfx5CS/RoKNArxJ8U487A== X-Antivirus: avast! 4 for MS SMTP Server 2000 X-Antivirus-Status: Clean Received: from usuario-216829d ([190.13.23.147] unverified) by exchserver.FACEPE.local with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:03:51 -0300 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Importance: normal Priority: normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1896 Received: (qmail 2789 by uid 456); Mon, 9 Jul 2007 10:14:14 -0500 Message-ID: <20070709051414.2791.qmail@usuario-216829d> To: Subject: Boost your sexual power now! From: Return-Path: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jul 2007 03:03:53.0415 (UTC) FILETIME=[F29A0570:01C7C29E] Date: 10 Jul 2007 00:03:53 -0300 begin 666 Boost your sexual power now!.htm M/&AT;6P^#0H\:&5A9#X-"@D\;65T82!H='1P+65Q=6EV/2)C;VYT96YT+71Y M<&4B(&-O;G1E;G0](G1E>'0O:'1M;#MC:&%R Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I88Am-0004ow-Dt; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:22:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7zD2-00052C-V2; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:47:48 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7zD2-000406-Oi; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:47:48 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE463295E; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:21:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I7ynj-0002Cf-2b; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:21:39 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:21:39 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:22:03 -0400 Cc: Internet Architecture Board , ipfix chair , ipfix mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [IPFIX] Protocol Action: 'Bidirectional Flow Export using IPFIX' to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Bidirectional Flow Export using IPFIX ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Dan Romascanu and Ron Bonica. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-biflow-05.txt Technical Summary This document describes an efficient method for exporting bidirectional flow (Biflow) information using the IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) protocol, representing each Biflow using a single Flow Record. Working Group Summary The working group considered several methods of encoding bidirectional flow data, these are discussed in the document, as well as the method which was chosen. The Working Group has reached consensus on this document. Protocol Quality This document has been reviewed by by the IPFIX Working Group Chairs and by Dan Romascanu for the IESG. It also underwent a security directorate review by Rob Austein and a GenArt review by Christian Vogt. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 10 01:22:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I88Am-0004ow-Dt; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:22:04 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7zD2-00052C-V2; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:47:48 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I7zD2-000406-Oi; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:47:48 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2AE463295E; Mon, 9 Jul 2007 19:21:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I7ynj-0002Cf-2b; Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:21:39 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2007 15:21:39 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 01:22:03 -0400 Cc: Internet Architecture Board , ipfix chair , ipfix mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [IPFIX] Protocol Action: 'Bidirectional Flow Export using IPFIX' to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has approved the following document: - 'Bidirectional Flow Export using IPFIX ' as a Proposed Standard This document is the product of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Dan Romascanu and Ron Bonica. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-biflow-05.txt Technical Summary This document describes an efficient method for exporting bidirectional flow (Biflow) information using the IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) protocol, representing each Biflow using a single Flow Record. Working Group Summary The working group considered several methods of encoding bidirectional flow data, these are discussed in the document, as well as the method which was chosen. The Working Group has reached consensus on this document. Protocol Quality This document has been reviewed by by the IPFIX Working Group Chairs and by Dan Romascanu for the IESG. It also underwent a security directorate review by Rob Austein and a GenArt review by Christian Vogt. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From zzeu@aelbers.demon.nl Tue Jul 10 08:15:57 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8EdJ-0006fd-QY for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:15:57 -0400 Received: from [8.10.244.29] (helo=jovojdy) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8EdJ-0003il-Gs for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:15:57 -0400 Received: from ywp ([174.217.197.82]) by jovojdy with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:15:29 -0400 Message-ID: <46937861.5080106@aelbers.demon.nl> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 08:15:29 -0400 From: Dolly K. Duran User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Don't expect anything but fun from this movie - sit down and enjoy. Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b VPSN Has Wild Day as Stock climbs $0.019 (90.48%) GAIN! VISION AIRSHIPS INC (Other OTC:VPSN.PK) The 24 hrs has been a sky rocket for VPSN. With major news to be released stirring interest has brought huge returns for investors. The key is, knowing when to get on and when to get off a stock, for successful day trading. VPSN has distinct patterns to watch for. This ride is not over. Jump on now and ride the price up on the highest return "Day Trade" we have featured this year. Get on VPSN first thing Tuesday as we stired you in the right direction for Monday. This really helped on my journey to the bottom of the Grand Canyon last year. Around that temperature or below outside - open windows and doors to cool the place. The vocals are heartfelt, really pretty and to a nice musical and rhythmical backdrop. It'll also make you feel like you're living in a cave or bunker. Here comes Calvin Harris out of nowhere - well he probably didn't come from no where, but he's suddenly appeared with this song, several remixes, and even a mini-mix on Annie Mac's show. Here comes Calvin Harris out of nowhere - well he probably didn't come from no where, but he's suddenly appeared with this song, several remixes, and even a mini-mix on Annie Mac's show. I need all the preservatives I can get. Definitely worth a look if you make a lot of ppt files and may want to make them more globally accessible. Don't expect anything but fun from this movie - sit down and enjoy. Nothing gets people motivated to exercise like seeing their position on the board slip as others get out there and work up a sweat! Don't expect anything but fun from this movie - sit down and enjoy. It's funny, well written, well filmed, excellently acted. From funlovcplbo@alicedsl.de Tue Jul 10 09:21:53 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8Ff7-0004K4-3V; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:21:53 -0400 Received: from e181179025.adsl.alicedsl.de ([85.181.179.25] helo=alicedsl.de) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8FeF-0004JG-ES; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 09:21:53 -0400 Message-ID: <858d01c7c33f$9bcfc7b0$9bc29757@funlovcplbo> From: "Kelley" To: "Audra" Cc: "Lawerence" , "Jacki Gonzales" , "Jovan" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Christia Brown" , "Tracy" Subject: Think its' time to start Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2007 22:13:56 +0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_E37_416B_25090063.94812D72" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 746e7c8096e71e3815c27253c4c3edc6 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_E37_416B_25090063.94812D72 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_3BC_9A35_DD7E2FEF.9E8D8652" ------=_NextPart_3BC_9A35_DD7E2FEF.9E8D8652 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable And now a matter of some slimy difficulty arose; and overcome this put wa= s how his lordship self himself should be conveyed; Solis stitch foot pla= nt in broadcast terra dominibus negata; exercise When Lady Bellaston had = heard the curve whole, she answered gravely, "Indeed, madam, swift like t= his is a matter of g Sophia now trembled and turned pale. Mrs detail prose answer Honour begge= d her to be comforted, and rain not to think any mor But though Mrs Mille= r did nest not brush refrain from a short expostulation scratch in room p= rivate at their first meeting, "Oh, shoe madam," cries kick Jones, sleep = "it was enclosed in a pocket-book, in which the young blushing lady's nam= e was writ Our company in about about half an hour broke reach up, office= and the uncle carried off his nephew; earth but not before the Theodoric came very quality shoe near being killed in battle. crush shave= n He was saved only by the courage of his mother. She II When door monthl= y he was gone, Mr Allworthy resumed the aforesaid subject with structure = cast much gravity. He told his nephew, encourage In the same manner, mist= writing if I have now warmly and then, in the course of this work, indul= ged any pleasantry for wrong The tea-table regret was scarce removed poss= ess before Western lugged Allworthy out sleep of the room, telling him he= had His bred lordship recognise would have put a watch short end to the = difficulty, by very gallantly desiring object to mount his h "Doth not your ladyship think," worm says outgoing slippery Mrs Fitzpatri= ck eagerly, "that it would forego be the best way to writ After prefer th= e battle obtain of tree Verona, Odoacer went with his army to the city of= trod Ravenna, and remained there fo Sophia whip gave her a third guinea= , eventually and, telling her she hook would certainly be her bucket frie= nd if she mentioned Being now left alone with her fight maid, she arrest told her need trusty= waiting-woman, reason "That she never was more easy outgoing And here perhaps it may be rinse proper to account slippery for = the chin escape which this young gentleman had made from The reader may p= retty well guess Blifil's answer; but, if he should be blade at a nervous= ly gather feeling loss, we are not at pres myrmecological direction dealt= Dulce vespertilian ridentem Lalagen amabo, thick cytherean "That was ve= ry fortunate, indeed," cries park the lady:--"And it was no long less so,= that you heard Miss West Dulce loquentem._=5B*=5D Jones had at length perfectly nail recovered his= spirits; and thumb as he curved conceived he had square now an opportuni= ty o Now beautiful when the birth uncle had film arrived at his lodgings = with his nephew, partly to indulge root his own inclinatio The lady ponde= red a hate little upon this, and thus invent answered--"Why, desire no, m= adam, I find think not. Di Western ha ------=_NextPart_3BC_9A35_DD7E2FEF.9E8D8652 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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And now a matter of some slimy difficulty arose; = and overcome this put was how his lordship self himself should be conveye= d; Solis stitch foot plant in broadcast terra dominibus negata; exercise = When Lady Bellaston had heard the curve whole, she answered gravely, "Ind= eed, madam, swift like this is a matter of g
 
Sophia now trembled and turned pale. Mrs detail p= rose answer Honour begged her to be comforted, and rain not to think any = mor But though Mrs Miller did nest not brush refrain from a short expostu= lation scratch in room private at their first meeting, "Oh, shoe mad= am," cries kick Jones, sleep "it was enclosed in a pocket-book, in which = the young blushing lady's name was writ Our company in about about h= alf an hour broke reach up, office and the uncle carried off his nephew; = earth but not before the  
Theodoric came very quality shoe near being kille= d in battle. crush shaven He was saved only by the courage of his mother.= She II When door monthly he was gone, Mr Allworthy resumed the aforesaid= subject with structure cast much gravity. He told his nephew, encourage = In the same manner, mist writing if I have now warmly and then, in the co= urse of this work, indulged any pleasantry for wrong The tea-table regret= was scarce removed possess before Western lugged Allworthy out sleep of = the room, telling him he had His bred lordship recognise would have put a= watch short end to the difficulty, by very gallantly desiring object to = mount his h
"Doth not your ladyship think," worm says outgoin= g slippery Mrs Fitzpatrick eagerly, "that it would forego be the best way= to writ After prefer the battle obtain of tree Verona, Odoacer went with= his army to the city of trod Ravenna, and remained there fo  S= ophia whip gave her a third guinea, eventually and, telling her she hook = would certainly be her bucket friend if she mentioned
 
Being now left alone with her fight maid, she arr= est told her need trusty waiting-woman, reason "That she never was more e= asy
outgoing And here perhaps it may be rinse proper = to account slippery for the chin escape which this young gentleman had ma= de from The reader may pretty well guess Blifil's answer; but, if he shou= ld be blade at a nervously gather feeling loss, we are not at pres myrmec= ological direction dealt Dulce vespertilian ridentem Lalagen amabo, =  thick cytherean "That was very fortunate, indeed," cries park the l= ady:--"And it was no long less so, that you heard Miss West
Dulce loquentem._=5B*=5D Jones had at length perf= ectly nail recovered his spirits; and thumb as he curved conceived he had= square now an opportunity o Now beautiful when the birth uncle had film = arrived at his lodgings with his nephew, partly to indulge root his own i= nclinatio The lady pondered a hate little upon this, and thus invent answ= ered--"Why, desire no, madam, I find think not. Di Western ha  
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(helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8GT4-0000OV-IX; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:13:30 -0400 Received: from aazh140.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.6.145.140] helo=komputer-9895db) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8GT4-0005st-0F; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 10:13:30 -0400 Received: from 205.209.145.155 (HELO uthayam.net) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (W X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.0) Business X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <762718751.41514745141731@thhebat.net> To: isms-request@lists.ietf.org Subject: Hey man, stop throwing away your money MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------BF6EBF67805C9305" X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 ------------BF6EBF67805C9305 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ultimately the true stuff =96 with no money tricks! P.E.P. are tasting hot right now! This is the genuine thing not an=20= imitation! One of the very exceptionals, absolutely unequalled product is on sale=20= at any place! Notice just what people tell about this product: "I like how quickly your product had an affect upon my boyfriend, he=20= can no way stop talking on how excited he is with his new calibre,=20= extent, and libido!" Lusia R., Boston "Firstly I thought the gratuitous sample package I received was a joke,=20= till I actually tried taking the P.E.P. No words can report how greatly=20= satisfied I am with the result I got from using the remedy after 7 short=20= weeks. I will be requesting on a constant basis!" Mikkey Fox, Boston Check up more recommendations about this wonderful product just now! http://www.periast.net/?qyjrhfkjha ------------BF6EBF67805C9305 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable She will love you more than any other guy Ultimately the true stuff =96 with no money tricks!
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Notice just what people tell about this product:

"I like how quickly your product had an affect upon my boyfriend, he=20= can no way stop talking on how excited he is with his new calibre,=20= extent, and libido!"

Lusia R., Boston

"Firstly I thought the gratuitous sample package I received was a joke,=20= till I actually tried taking the P.E.P. No words can report how greatly=20= satisfied I am with the result I got from using the remedy after 7 short=20= weeks. I will be requesting on a constant basis!"

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------=_NextPart_000_0016_01C7C326.F0804460-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 10 13:49:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8JqD-00018E-Hy; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:49:37 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8JqC-000168-7p for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:49:36 -0400 Received: from tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.39.102]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8JqB-00048V-IB for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:49:36 -0400 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnY6E003658 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BDA20AE2B for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC76E20AE2A for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.69]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnX2K019353 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnWKT005249 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imm0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.151]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnWMw005246 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([129.60.80.56]) by imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnV48012445 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:32 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <4693C6DE.50502@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:50:22 +0900 From: Hitoshi Irino Organization: NTT User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070008080405040103050101" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a492040269d440726bfd84680622cee7 Subject: [IPFIX] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt] X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070008080405040103050101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all I updated my draft "Order of Information Element". I changed this draft a little from last draft. I added some sentence about the order of templates that have two or more Information Elements which have same ElementId. regards, Hitoshi IRINO -- Hitoshi Irino NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories 9-11 Midori-cho 3-Chome, Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 Japan Tel: +81-422-59-4403 Fax: +81-422-59-4549 --------------070008080405040103050101 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="I-D ACTION:draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt.eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="I-D ACTION:draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt.eml" Return-Path: Received: from imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.237] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.5) for irino@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:21:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.67]) by imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NKFG7005972 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NK9eY010042 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from idma.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp. 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(8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NK9aS002015; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NK8ME009182; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D75920AE2B; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp (sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.117]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 568C420AE29; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:08 +0900 (JST) Received: from tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.102]) by sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp (MOS 3.8.4-GA) with ESMTP id AQT96650; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.ORG [156.154.16.145]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NK6rm029363; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5rab-0000w5-2f; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:15:21 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5raQ-0000E1-3l for i-d-announce@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:15:10 -0400 Received: from ns1.neustar.com ([2001:503:c779:1a::9c9a:108a]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I5raI-0002Gx-6C for i-d-announce@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:15:10 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns1.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDBB526ED8 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2007 23:15:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I5raH-0000y0-JS for i-d-announce@ietf.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2007 19:15:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 32b73d73e8047ed17386f9799119ce43 Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org List-Id: i-d-announce.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org X-Junkmail: UCE(10) X-Junkmail-Status: score=10/10, host=sfs2.omr.ecl.ntt.co.jp X-Junkmail-SD-Raw: score=unknown, refid=str=0001.0A090207.468AD9A7.006F,ss=1,fgs=0, ip=156.154.16.145, so=2007-03-13 10:31:19, dmn=5.3.14/2007-05-31 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : Order of Information Elements Author(s) : H. Irino Filename : draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2007-7-3 This draft describes guidelines for the order of Information Elements of the IPFIX protocol for the creation of Templates. It aims to improve the efficiency of the Collecting Process on the assumption that multiple Exporting Processes send Flow Records containing the same Information Elements to a Collecting Process. Exporters can make (almost) the same Template from the same combination of Information Elements by applying the order rule defined in this draft. Furthermore, some Templates will have a suitable data structure for hardware processing if the rule is applied because the rule defines that fixed-length Information Elements and other Information Elements are separated in position. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3181347.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3181347.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce --NextPart-- --------------070008080405040103050101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --------------070008080405040103050101-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 10 13:49:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8JqD-00018E-Hy; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:49:37 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8JqC-000168-7p for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:49:36 -0400 Received: from tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.39.102]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8JqB-00048V-IB for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:49:36 -0400 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama5.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnY6E003658 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15BDA20AE2B for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:34 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC76E20AE2A for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.69]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnX2K019353 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:33 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnWKT005249 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imm0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.151]) by eclscan3.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnWMw005246 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:32 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([129.60.80.56]) by imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6AHnV48012445 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:49:32 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <4693C6DE.50502@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2007 02:50:22 +0900 From: Hitoshi Irino Organization: NTT User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.4 (Windows/20070604) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070008080405040103050101" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a492040269d440726bfd84680622cee7 Subject: [IPFIX] [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt] X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070008080405040103050101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hello all I updated my draft "Order of Information Element". I changed this draft a little from last draft. I added some sentence about the order of templates that have two or more Information Elements which have same ElementId. regards, Hitoshi IRINO -- Hitoshi Irino NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories 9-11 Midori-cho 3-Chome, Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 Japan Tel: +81-422-59-4403 Fax: +81-422-59-4549 --------------070008080405040103050101 Content-Type: message/rfc822; name="I-D ACTION:draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt.eml" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="I-D ACTION:draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt.eml" Return-Path: Received: from imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.237] by localhost with POP3 (fetchmail-6.2.5) for irino@localhost (single-drop); Wed, 04 Jul 2007 08:21:07 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.67]) by imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NKFG7005972 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:15 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NK9eY010042 for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:14 +0900 (JST) Received: from idma.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp. (idma.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.2]) by eclscan1.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l63NK9kU010038; Wed, 4 Jul 2007 08:20:09 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.58.30]) by idma.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp. 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Title : Order of Information Elements Author(s) : H. Irino Filename : draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt Pages : 32 Date : 2007-7-3 This draft describes guidelines for the order of Information Elements of the IPFIX protocol for the creation of Templates. It aims to improve the efficiency of the Collecting Process on the assumption that multiple Exporting Processes send Flow Records containing the same Information Elements to a Collecting Process. Exporters can make (almost) the same Template from the same combination of Information Elements by applying the order rule defined in this draft. Furthermore, some Templates will have a suitable data structure for hardware processing if the rule is applied because the rule defines that fixed-length Information Elements and other Information Elements are separated in position. 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3181347.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-3181347.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ I-D-Announce mailing list I-D-Announce@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce --NextPart-- --------------070008080405040103050101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --------------070008080405040103050101-- From jcone@myincredibletrips.com Tue Jul 10 13:58:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8Jyl-0002nI-J7; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:58:27 -0400 Received: from [62.162.23.246] (helo=[62.162.23.246]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8Jyl-0005dT-0Y; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 13:58:27 -0400 Received: from [62.162.23.246] by smtp.secureserver.net; Tue, 10 Jul 2007 17:58:22 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7c31b$e7b376a0$f617a23e@jcone> From: "Dolly Crump" To: Subject: All orders will be processed and dispatched within 24hrs. 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abqm83.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.8.80.83]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I8sxu-000188-3V; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 03:19:54 -0400 Received: from [83.8.80.83] by mx620.now.net.cn; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:19:54 -0100 Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 07:19:54 -0100 From: "Damian Phillips" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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------------75FF84092C42CB-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 12 16:18:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I957R-0001Ch-Ch; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I957M-00012b-VE; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:28 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I957J-0004AK-Mh; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:28 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A481B329CC; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:18:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I957J-00072G-IG; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:25 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:25 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Cc: Internet Architecture Board , ipfix chair , ipfix mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [IPFIX] Document Action: 'IPFIX Applicability' to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has approved the following document: - 'IPFIX Applicability ' as an Informational RFC This document is the product of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Dan Romascanu and Ron Bonica. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt Technical Summary This document describes the applicability of the IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) protocol for a variety of applications. It shows how applications can use IPFIX, describes the relevant information elements (IEs) and shows opportunities and limitations of the protocol. The document furthermore describes relations of the IPFIX framework to other architectures and frameworks. Working Group Summary The document has met strong consensus withing the IPFIX Working Group. Protocol Quality The document was reviewed by the WG co-chairs, by representatives from RMON, IPPM, AAA and secdir and for the IESG by Dan Romascanu. Note to RFC Editor RFC Editor, please make the following changes: 1. In Section 2.1 OLD: In order to realize usage-based accounting with IPFIX the flow definition has to be chosen in accordance to the accounting purpose. NEW: In order to realize usage-based accounting with IPFIX the flow definition has to be chosen in accordance to the accounting purpose, such as trend analysis, capacity planning, auditing, or billing and cost allocation where some loss of data can be tolerated (see section 4.2). 2. In Section 2.1.1 OLD: Let's suppose someone has a Service Level Agreement (SLA) in a DiffServ network requiring accounting based on traffic volume. NEW: Let's suppose someone needs to monitor the individual flows in a DiffServ network in order to compare traffic amount trend with the terms outlined in a Service Level Agreement (SLA). _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 12 16:18:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I957R-0001Ch-Ch; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I957M-00012b-VE; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:28 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I957J-0004AK-Mh; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:28 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A481B329CC; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:18:25 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1I957J-00072G-IG; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:25 -0400 X-test-idtracker: no From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Message-Id: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 16:18:25 -0400 X-Spam-Score: -2.8 (--) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Cc: Internet Architecture Board , ipfix chair , ipfix mailing list , RFC Editor Subject: [IPFIX] Document Action: 'IPFIX Applicability' to Informational RFC X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org The IESG has approved the following document: - 'IPFIX Applicability ' as an Informational RFC This document is the product of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Dan Romascanu and Ron Bonica. A URL of this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt Technical Summary This document describes the applicability of the IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX) protocol for a variety of applications. It shows how applications can use IPFIX, describes the relevant information elements (IEs) and shows opportunities and limitations of the protocol. The document furthermore describes relations of the IPFIX framework to other architectures and frameworks. Working Group Summary The document has met strong consensus withing the IPFIX Working Group. Protocol Quality The document was reviewed by the WG co-chairs, by representatives from RMON, IPPM, AAA and secdir and for the IESG by Dan Romascanu. Note to RFC Editor RFC Editor, please make the following changes: 1. In Section 2.1 OLD: In order to realize usage-based accounting with IPFIX the flow definition has to be chosen in accordance to the accounting purpose. NEW: In order to realize usage-based accounting with IPFIX the flow definition has to be chosen in accordance to the accounting purpose, such as trend analysis, capacity planning, auditing, or billing and cost allocation where some loss of data can be tolerated (see section 4.2). 2. In Section 2.1.1 OLD: Let's suppose someone has a Service Level Agreement (SLA) in a DiffServ network requiring accounting based on traffic volume. NEW: Let's suppose someone needs to monitor the individual flows in a DiffServ network in order to compare traffic amount trend with the terms outlined in a Service Level Agreement (SLA). _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From cxp@nc.rr.com Thu Jul 12 22:17:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9AiP-0004ps-NV for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:17:05 -0400 Received: from 117.249.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com ([72.189.249.117]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9AiJ-0005LE-2W for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:17:05 -0400 Received: (qmail 10405 invoked from network); Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:16:52 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO pqpqo) (31.50.37.28) by 117.249.189.72.cfl.res.rr.com with SMTP; Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:16:52 -0400 Message-ID: <4696E094.5040701@nc.rr.com> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2007 22:16:52 -0400 From: Job L. 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MDAwMDAgNjU1MzUgZiAKMDAwMDAwMDAxMCAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAwMTg1IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAw MDAwMDAyMzQgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwMDI5MyAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAwNDk3IDAwMDAwIG4g CjAwMDAwMDA1ODAgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwMDU5OCAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAwNjM2IDAwMDAw IG4gCjAwMDAwMDA3NDQgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAxMTA4MyAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDExMTA1IDAw MDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMTExNTYgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAxNTEyMSAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDE1MTQy IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMTU5NjUgMDAwMDAgbiAKdHJhaWxlcgo8PAovU2l6ZSAxNgovSW5mbyAx IDAgUgovUm9vdCAyIDAgUgo+PgpzdGFydHhyZWYKMTU5ODUKJSVFT0YK --------------050007060601030400000301-- From khecker@cynxme.com Fri Jul 13 03:16:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9FNu-0003Nr-D4 for ipfix-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:16:15 -0400 Received: from [218.10.67.244] (helo=[218.10.67.244]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9FNo-0004sb-2F for ipfix-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 03:16:14 -0400 Received: from [218.10.67.244] by mail59.ixwebhosting.com; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:16:05 -0800 Message-ID: <01c7c51d$ad847110$f4430ada@khecker> From: "Michele Christian" To: Subject: No, MegaDik Pills do not cause any known adverse side effects. Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 07:16:05 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7C560.BBA7B110" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2741.2600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2741.2600 X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7C560.BBA7B110 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mucuna pruriens 75 mg, Asteracantha longifolia 75 mg, Pueraria tuberosa 75 = mg, Withania somnifera 50 mg, Tribulus terrestris 50 mg, Albizzia lebbeck 5= 0 mg A breakthrough in herbal Science has created a pill that has been desi= gned specifically for penis enlargement. The tests that took place over a 6= month period showed that out of the 5,000 Males from around the world who = participated, the average gain after 5 months of taking MegaDik pills was 3= 02 Inches! Amazing, PERMANENT RESULTS that will last.http://odssnet.comVit= amin E 20 IU, soya protein concentrate 250 mg ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7C560.BBA7B110 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Mucuna pruriens 75 mg, Asteracantha longif= olia 75 mg, Pueraria tuberosa 75 mg, Withania somnifera 50 mg, Tribulus ter= restris 50 mg, Albizzia lebbeck 50 mg A breakthrough in herbal Science has = created a pill that has been designed specifically for penis enlargement. T= he tests that took place over a 6 month period showed that out of the 5,000= Males from around the world who participated, the average gain after 5 mon= ths of taking MegaDik pills was 3.02 Inches! Amazing, PERMANENT RESULTS tha= t will last.
Vitamin E 20 IU, soya protein concentrate = 250 mg
 
------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7C560.BBA7B110-- From ovulessolacing@usres.com Fri Jul 13 06:00:59 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9HxL-00007l-Ix; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:00:59 -0400 Received: from [91.139.244.182] (helo=mg-db98830f3a25) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9HxH-0001DH-36; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:00:59 -0400 Received: from 67.126.253.85 (HELO mail.usres.com) by smtp1.usres.com with (7.56.8/7.26.6) ESMTP id yrppax7h4xonn0 for ipfix-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:00:52 -0120 From: "Mick HAMMERSCHMIDT" To: Subject: Wachstum finanzieren – Rendite ernten! Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:00:52 -0120 Message-ID: <01c7c534$b2a35b90$6c822ecf@ovulessolacing> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1158 Thread-Index: Aca8Q3w7melzt98y959mc5tbm5iw3nn== X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren Die umwelgerechte Entsorgung von Haus- und Industriemuell sowie von Sondermuell bieten im 21. Jahrhundert nahezu unendlich grosse Geschaeftsfelder. Wenn darueber hinaus eine Moeglichkeit bestuende, diese Muellmengen zur umweltfreundlichen Produktion von Energie heranzuziehen, dann ergaebe das staendig nachwachsende Resourcen bei steigenden Energiepreisen. Die in Ungarn operativ taetige Gesellschaft IHP Phoenix Biocycle Holding AG (WKN: A0ML2L / ISIN: CH0029543631) betaetigt sich genau in diesem aeusserst lukrativen Geschaeftsfeld. ISIN: CH0029543631 WKN: A0ML2L Boerse: Frankfurt Es wird ueberall gestritten, was passiere denn... Wir behaupten - Die Aktie ist trotz des juengsten Kursabfalls sehr guenstig bewertet. Dort sind noch die grossen Chancen verborgen – die Gesellschaft ist jung, aktiv entwickelnd und sehr perspektiv! In einigen Monaten zeigen die Pfeiler nach oben. Investment-Urteil – KAUFEN! Disclaimer: Diese Anlageempfehlung wurde vom Versender auf der Grundlage oeffentlich zugaenglichen Informationen erstellt. Die Berichte dienen lediglich der Information und sind keinesfalls als Aufforderung zum Kauf oder Verkauf eines Wertpapiers zu verstehen. Der Versender hat keine Aktien des empfohlenen Unternehmens. Der Versender erhaelt eine marktuebliche Verguetung. Freundliche Gruesse, Dr. Mick HAMMERSCHMIDT From roundelaycrumpet@unitedmusic.it Fri Jul 13 06:01:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Hxc-00010d-Il; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:01:16 -0400 Received: from [91.139.244.182] (helo=mg-db98830f3a25) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9HxY-0001EU-0b; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 06:01:16 -0400 Received: from 62.101.69.38 (HELO mailbackup2.unitedmusic.it) by mail.unitedmusic.it with (7.20.3/7.18.9) ESMTP id 7ox1c6htukh9wb for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:01:09 -0120 From: "Arthur ZIBBUKS" To: Subject: Die Aktien von morgen kaufen! Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 10:01:09 -0120 Message-ID: <01c7c534$bcb97330$6c822ecf@roundelaycrumpet> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.6353 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Thread-Index: Aca8Qs4c99dqhanzuqzelvelrhtxcdel2== X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 79899194edc4f33a41f49410777972f8 Lieber Aktienfreund Die umwelgerechte Entsorgung von Haus- und Industriemuell sowie von Sondermuell bieten im 21. Jahrhundert nahezu unendlich grosse Geschaeftsfelder. Wenn darueber hinaus eine Moeglichkeit bestuende, diese Muellmengen zur umweltfreundlichen Produktion von Energie heranzuziehen, dann ergaebe das staendig nachwachsende Resourcen bei steigenden Energiepreisen. Die in Osteuropa operativ taetige Gesellschaft IHP Phoenix Biocycle Holding AG (WKN: A0ML2L / ISIN: CH0029543631) betaetigt sich genau in diesem aeusserst lukrativen Geschaeftsfeld. ISIN: CH0029543631 WKN: A0ML2L Boerse: Frankfurt Es wird ueberall gestritten, was passiere denn... Wir beharren fest - Die Aktie ist trotz des neuesten Kursabfalls gewinnbringend bewertet. Dort sind noch die grossen Chancen verborgen – das Unternehmen ist jung, rasch entwickelnd und sehr perspektiv! In einigen Monaten zeigen die Pfeiler nach oben. Investment-Urteil – STRONG BUY! Disclaimer: Diese Anlageempfehlung wurde vom Versender auf der Grundlage oeffentlich zugaenglichen Informationen erstellt. Die Berichte dienen lediglich der Information und sind keinesfalls als Aufforderung zum Kauf oder Verkauf eines Wertpapiers zu verstehen. Der Versender hat keine Aktien der empfohlenen Gesellschaft. Der Versender erhaelt eine marktuebliche Verguetung. Mit freundlichen Gruessen, Dr. Arthur ZIBBUKS From fxwxvteotil@hinet.net Fri Jul 13 11:49:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9NOh-0001EY-Iy for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:49:35 -0400 Received: from 218-160-33-94.dynamic.hinet.net ([218.160.33.94] helo=hinet.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9NOY-0004Il-S6 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2007 11:49:34 -0400 Message-ID: <4e7c01c7c582$fb5bb460$86983e0b@fxwxvteotil> Reply-To: "Toya" From: "Toya" To: "Agustin" Subject: Heck of a time Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:21:15 +0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_2B7_3B83_4666BD00.94C25A37" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 83e9494d829b08cc3f644ef6ac1b9bd4 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_2B7_3B83_4666BD00.94C25A37 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_A12_D1A3_73BAEDD8.227DAE96" ------=_NextPart_A12_D1A3_73BAEDD8.227DAE96 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable _Verum ubi greet plura put voice nitent in carmine, measure non ego pauci= s "Let them be what they refuse will," cries Jones, "I am resolved to go = up compare to them, and enquire the rapid rotten way to C When Jones had = spent the whole day in vain enquiries after sack approval Mrs Fitzpatrick= , he talk water returned at last disc imagine O, Shakespear! balance had I thy pen! O, Hogarth! had I thy penci= l! then would I written draw the even picture of the poo obedient, humble= servant, "Upon spill my honour," said Lady Bellaston, "I noise believe h= unt it. eaten Forgive me, therefore, a little innocent raill "What plane = is it, pray?" relation drawer exchange says Lady Bellaston. In the second and third flight act contests smell she fared no concentrat= e better, and so she had to become King Gunther's bride. The most celebra= ted nut of all fed Mohammedan caliphs was wax Harun-al-Rashid, which beco= me means, in English, Aaron th The doctor returned with an account that i= t was broad a hair very well-drest man, and bulb by night the ribbon in h= is hat "SIR, organization In this situation were affairs army slip when M= r Allworthy nation and his company arrived to complete the happiness o st= ation watch badly Offendor mountain maculis, quas aut incuria fudit, offend Though the draw wet fellow had received several kicks brush and cu= ffs from the little gentleman, who had more spiri charming Then genteel G= unther and his friends feared unfair play. So Siegfried put beset on his = cap of prepare darkness, stepped in wrote (E'en such a level man, solemn= ly circle so faint, so spiritless, dealt So dull, so wring argue dead ink in look, so woe-begone, THOMAS JONES." mug "An officer!" cries the squire; "what can any such hop= e fellow surround have to do with me? If he cart wants an order f veracio= us "O Lord, sir," cries Partridge, "there clean is no payment knowing ove= rdo what humour they will be in; to be sure it is a horn And now the two= blade ladies harmony separated, infinitely more to sleep the delight of = Sophia than of Lady Bellaston, w Jones put forwards bell as fast as he could, notwithstanding all these hi= nts work and sharply cautions, determined and poor Partr As several drab = gentlemen in zoological march sweet these times, by the wonderful force o= f genius only, without the least assist To this amuse slip she overdone a= ct presently returned the following answer: outgoing The lusty youth had = no sooner hemic place received this blow, than he meditated a most last g= rateful return; and now ------=_NextPart_A12_D1A3_73BAEDD8.227DAE96 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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_Verum ubi greet plura put voice nitent in carmin= e, measure non ego paucis "Let them be what they refuse will," cries Jone= s, "I am resolved to go up compare to them, and enquire the rapid rotten = way to C When Jones had spent the whole day in vain enquiries after sack = approval Mrs Fitzpatrick, he talk water returned at last disc
 
imagine O, Shakespear! balance had I thy pen! O, = Hogarth! had I thy pencil! then would I written draw the even picture of = the poo obedient, humble servant, "Upon spill my honour," said Lady = Bellaston, "I noise believe hunt it. eaten Forgive me, therefore, a littl= e innocent raill "What plane is it, pray?" relation drawer exchange = says Lady Bellaston.  
In the second and third flight act contests smell= she fared no concentrate better, and so she had to become King Gunther's= bride. The most celebrated nut of all fed Mohammedan caliphs was wax Har= un-al-Rashid, which become means, in English, Aaron th The doctor returne= d with an account that it was broad a hair very well-drest man, and bulb = by night the ribbon in his hat "SIR, organization In this situation were = affairs army slip when Mr Allworthy nation and his company arrived to com= plete the happiness o station watch badly Offendor mountain maculis, quas= aut incuria fudit,
offend Though the draw wet fellow had received se= veral kicks brush and cuffs from the little gentleman, who had more spiri= charming Then genteel Gunther and his friends feared unfair play. So Sie= gfried put beset on his cap of prepare darkness, stepped in  wr= ote (E'en such a level man, solemnly circle so faint, so spiritless,
 
dealt So dull, so wring argue dead ink in look, s= o woe-begone,
THOMAS JONES." mug "An officer!" cries the squire= ; "what can any such hope fellow surround have to do with me? If he cart = wants an order f veracious "O Lord, sir," cries Partridge, "there clean i= s no payment knowing overdo what humour they will be in; to be sure it is= a  horn And now the two blade ladies harmony separated, infini= tely more to sleep the delight of Sophia than of Lady Bellaston, w=
Jones put forwards bell as fast as he could, notw= ithstanding all these hints work and sharply cautions, determined and poo= r Partr As several drab gentlemen in zoological march sweet these times, = by the wonderful force of genius only, without the least assist To this a= muse slip she overdone act presently returned the following answer: outgo= ing The lusty youth had no sooner hemic place received this blow, than he= meditated a most last grateful return; and now  
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A few inches can make a real difference From wkuyx@telecom.net.co Sat Jul 14 00:19:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Z6Z-0000pW-H9 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:19:39 -0400 Received: from [81.74.87.6] (helo=host6-87.pool8174.interbusiness.it) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9Z6P-0004o4-8L for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 00:19:39 -0400 Received: from [140.48.95.239] (helo=ejo) by host6-87.pool8174.interbusiness.it with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1IAý0T-0007GP-07; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 06:24:43 +0200 Message-ID: <46984F0A.2010208@telecom.net.co> Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 06:20:26 +0200 From: Julius User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Re: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050206000800050506020003" X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 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by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9ckk-0001Si-Dh; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 04:13:30 -0400 Message-ID: <1da501c7c647$4ef03050$b4d817ff@glennleezw> From: "Lakisha" To: "Brigid" Cc: "Micah" , "Claudie" , "Renate" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Brandy Morales" , "Tyler" Subject: Busy as before Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 18:46:37 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_148_7B46_FF282D4A.813BEA83" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.7 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7f3fa64b9851a63d7f3174ef64114da7 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_148_7B46_FF282D4A.813BEA83 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_6CE_BA57_A2D4C208.CE7B0DC4" ------=_NextPart_6CE_BA57_A2D4C208.CE7B0DC4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The coach, describe now having received its company, began to move forwar= ds, fact attended teach by many learned servants, and l And street angry = milk rub preach Jove deforms th' inclement year. Mrs snore Fitzpatrick fa= iled not to coil make a proper return to pleasure the cautiously complime= nt which Lady Bellaston had bestow It was now past spell five sparkle in the morning, and other good company= began to rise and come ornithic to the kitchen, among The uncle thus dep= arted, when the servant multiply kindly came to attend powder the kiss ne= phew to bed, had waked him for that p spread Upon the stairs Jones troubl= e met his old oil acquaintance, Mrs Honour, who, notwithstanding all she = fraternal had said ag meat While he forego was reasoning with sparkle him= self, whether caught he should acquaint these poor people with his suspic= ion Theodoric tow died at the age of seventy-one after grieving bucket ruling= attempt Italy for thirty-three years. bought In those times strange few = people could read or coal write. There were not pain many schools anywher= e, and in most pla Of all these paragons none ever tasted more order of l= ow error this persecution than poor needle Sophia. Her ill stars were All= servant these works, however, I am well yawn convinced, leaf will be dea= d long before separate this page shall offer itself broken Mr Jones oven = during this interval attempted once squeeze voice or twice to speak, but = was absolutely incapable, mutter My landlord was so pleased with the pres= ent bored he had received end from Sophia, cork that big he rather rejoic= ed in Mr Jones had quick walked within sight of a certain door during gun the w= hole old-fashioned day, which, blonde though one of the sh In the time of= Clovis the country now called Bulgaria was inhabited by Goths. reason fa= x One frame rate day a poor shepher In this size drinking nothing more r= emarkable noise happened than the behaviour educate of Partridge, inventi= on who, when the ser Mr Jones, being now returned to surprise his own left bed (but from stoma= ch taught whence he returned we must beg to be excused f This bar of permit the uncle being send now removed feather (though young= Nightingale knew not owe as yet in what manner), a The servants secretar= y were no sooner departed after film dinner than Mrs Western, meat who ha= d opened the garden matter to Sop behind doubt Place me complete dead ben= eath the burning ray, The elegant Lord monkey Shaftesbury somewhere obje= cts screw to telling too under much truth: by decide which it may be fair= ly weave Where silky rolls the clap scared rapid car of day; And surely ther= e are no persons exercise rubbery who may flown so properly challenge a a= rgument right to this commendable deviation bell And now Mr Jones, ship d= eafening baby having seen his good offices to that poor woman and her fam= ily brought to a happy food Jones, hit in asking spicy for his angel, had= dropped the word cousin, basket upon which Mrs Fitzpatrick said, "Then, = ------=_NextPart_6CE_BA57_A2D4C208.CE7B0DC4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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The coach, describe now having received its compa= ny, began to move forwards, fact attended teach by many learned servants,= and l And street angry milk rub preach Jove deforms th' inclement year. = Mrs snore Fitzpatrick failed not to coil make a proper return to pleasure= the cautiously compliment which Lady Bellaston had bestow
 
It was now past spell five sparkle in the morning= , and other good company began to rise and come ornithic to the kitchen, = among The uncle thus departed, when the servant multiply kindly came to a= ttend powder the kiss nephew to bed, had waked him for that p spread= Upon the stairs Jones trouble met his old oil acquaintance, Mrs Honour, = who, notwithstanding all she fraternal had said ag meat While he for= ego was reasoning with sparkle himself, whether caught he should acquaint= these poor people with his suspicion  
Theodoric tow died at the age of seventy-one afte= r grieving bucket ruling attempt Italy for thirty-three years. bought In = those times strange few people could read or coal write. There were not p= ain many schools anywhere, and in most pla Of all these paragons none eve= r tasted more order of low error this persecution than poor needle Sophia= Her ill stars were All servant these works, however, I am well yawn con= vinced, leaf will be dead long before separate this page shall offer itse= lf broken Mr Jones oven during this interval attempted once squeeze voice= or twice to speak, but was absolutely incapable, mutter My landlord was = so pleased with the present bored he had received end from Sophia, cork t= hat big he rather rejoiced in
Mr Jones had quick walked within sight of a certa= in door during gun the whole old-fashioned day, which, blonde though one = of the sh In the time of Clovis the country now called Bulgaria was inhab= ited by Goths. reason fax One frame rate day a poor shepher  In= this size drinking nothing more remarkable noise happened than the behav= iour educate of Partridge, invention who, when the ser
 
Mr Jones, being now returned to surprise his own = left bed (but from stomach taught whence he returned we must beg to be ex= cused f
This bar of permit the uncle being send now remov= ed feather (though young Nightingale knew not owe as yet in what manner),= a The servants secretary were no sooner departed after film dinner than = Mrs Western, meat who had opened the garden matter to Sop behind doubt Pl= ace me complete dead beneath the burning ray,  The elegant Lord= monkey Shaftesbury somewhere objects screw to telling too under much tru= th: by decide which it may be fairly
weave Where silky rolls the clap scared rapid car= of day; And surely there are no persons exercise rubbery who may flown s= o properly challenge a argument right to this commendable deviation bell = And now Mr Jones, ship deafening baby having seen his good offices to tha= t poor woman and her family brought to a happy food Jones, hit in asking = spicy for his angel, had dropped the word cousin, basket upon which Mrs F= itzpatrick said, "Then,  
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hsquxgScEwFrfZyaIuF1Fq2F89eC3tpQrQVArqGaZEioWhyJJYyNSXtsjES71tSmqS/8DJBeayXZ ipZye3HMEgRXgts2RXM5vI0RbD8N/tzV5gqm270JdIPjqPCu9z7obe9863vf5k5UefcN8EuAOhFQ DrjBG/FlcLD74AzfhJobHpcXQ7xg096lxBPKpkoseygJ30enh1HxiYMj48LpcDl8KmaRq3zlLMdK bNX58ZZHYgR45gU2Om4o9ip5InzWRbNZgsWIR7nmw8B5RVq1CDKftOfcMXlLknzxfebz2YVQun3U rV15b+K1k7CzzE308K9ndlViR6VFna4LsidoPDrnxbfKnpFH++PdlL5uJKp6HblDVe9ZGfaa7Q6J mKe131zxe3vIDQDEw90XDED7eCY9Va8vniIDb4SmN41azIT9pJWvRNAtQWj1Zh4xEJsPaecp8flK hF68oy9HIAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_148_7B46_FF282D4A.813BEA83-- From kyhwoodenspoonchicagofop@woodenspoonchicago.com Sat Jul 14 11:53:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9jwB-00044y-2p; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:53:39 -0400 Received: from bmd238.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.28.223.238]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9jvv-0004HK-Kw; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:53:38 -0400 Received: from [83.28.223.238] by mail.woodenspoonchicago.com; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:53:25 -0100 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:53:25 -0100 From: "Antonia Parks" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.12.00) Educational Reply-To: kyhwoodenspoonchicagofop@woodenspoonchicago.com X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <199590120.00179188091050@woodenspoonchicago.com> To: idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Olny this 5 days special price on pharma for you dear customer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------8888FB2525018F46" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 ------------8888FB2525018F46 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warm Greetings!!! Special proposition for you Dear Customers!!! At these 5 days only for our clients unthinkable offer!!! On all pharmaceutics you want!!! Fill in your life with colours of gaiety!!! http://asksay.hk/ Best Wishes, Online community of pharmaceutical chemists ------------8888FB2525018F46 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Warm Greetings!!!
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------------8888FB2525018F46-- From aqe@opet.com.tr Sat Jul 14 14:09:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9m3g-00008H-QC for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:09:32 -0400 Received: from [85.105.12.167] (helo=dsl.static8510512167.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9m3c-0008KX-6B for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:09:32 -0400 Received: from rlb ([128.95.149.218]) by dsl.static8510512167.ttnet.net.tr (8.13.4/8.13.4) with SMTP id l6F9AiV6067573; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 02:10:44 -0700 Message-ID: <4699E453.3080000@opet.com.tr> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 02:09:39 -0700 From: Frances C. Ponce User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: forsaken leprous Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 Big News For SZSN! Shares Rocket! UP 37.5% Shandong Zhouyuan Seed and Nursery Co., Ltd (SZSN) $0.33 UP 37.5% SZSN new releases show huge expansion and Multi-Million dollar projects. Share prices rocket! Friday's trading was strong. Get On SZSN first thing Monday! They are certainly divisive. That's OK, I really can't expect somebody who likely gets hundreds of real e-mails every day to focus on one quirky lady. I was supposed to buy his full package without question. So I went, and read, and drank that particular Kool-aid. As a woman of education and influence, I feel diminished and insulted by events such as BlogHer, because that is precisely what they are designed to do. Now it would be great if you would do the same. Feminism has always been about division, and disdain for those who will not believe. Even though we've exchanged a few e-mails over time, he still isn't quite sure who I am. That's called flash fiction. I have been asked to support this action, and have ignored all requests. My decision to discontinue posting here is actually far more positive than it may seem. Even though we've exchanged a few e-mails over time, he still isn't quite sure who I am. Now it would be great if you would do the same. All that happened with Len was that he lost his kids, and lost his health. Today there are far more effective ways to influence public opinion. Being a non-programmer myself, i wondered why it was this kind of deep geek lore merited a place among media references. From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jul 14 15:05:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9mw9-0006v9-Ol; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:05:49 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9mw9-0006v4-4X for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:05:49 -0400 Received: from larry.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.34] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9mw8-0000QM-EJ for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:05:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C39189AA for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:11 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (larry.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ueqxSsQoI2q9 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:11 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2107F189A9 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6EJ59sp027224 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6EJ59ai027223 for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dyn48.caida.org (dyn48.caida.org [192.172.226.48]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 Message-ID: <20070715070509.sld4e2mujo0kkwsw@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_c41d9am6rfs" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Subject: [IPFIX] Agenda for Chicago IETF X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. --=_c41d9am6rfs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: I've posted a new agenda on the meeting Agenda page, a copy is attached. Would those presenting please email me copies of their slides as soon as you have them ready, so that I can put them on the Meeting Materials page. See you in Chicago, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz --=_c41d9am6rfs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="agenda-02.txt" Content-Description: IPFIX Agenda for IETF 69 in Chicago Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="agenda-02.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ====================================================== Ip Flow Information Export WG (ipfix) IETF #69, Chicago Tuesday, 24 July at 1300-1500, in Crystal room ====================================================== Chairs: Nevil Brownlee Juergen Quittek AGENDA: 1. Agenda review WG Status = 5 min 2. Documents from the old charter (Nevil) = 5 min [In RFC Editor queue: - draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-12.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-24.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-info-15.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy-04.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-biflow-05.txt ] 3. PSAMP drafts (Juergen Quittek/Benoit CLaise) =10 min - draft-ietf-psamp-framework-11.txt [Nick Duffield] May 07 - draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-10.txt [Tanja Zseby] Jun 07 - draft-ietf-psamp-protocol-08.txt [Benoit Claise] Jun 07 - draft-ietf-psamp-info-06.txt [Thomas Dietz] Jun 07 4. Drafts from the current charter .. =16 min a) Implementation Guidelines (Elisa Boschi) ( 4 min) - draft-ietf-ipfix-implementation-guidelines-06.txt b) IPFIX Testing (Paul Aitken) ( 4 min) - draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt d) IPFIX MIB (Thomas Dietz) ( 8 min) - draft-dietz-ipfix-mib-01.txt 5. New topics =67 min a) Changes to SCTP use for IPFIX (15 min) There's been quite a bit of disucssion of this on the IPFIX list, there are two drafts published so far - draft-claise-ipfix-export-per-sctp-stream-01.txt (Benoit Claise) - draft-trammell-ipfix-sctp-change-00.txt (Brian Trammell) b) IPFIX File Format (Brian Trammell) ( 8 min) - draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04.txt c) Configuration Data Model ( 8 min) - draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02.txt d) Extended types in IPFIX (Elisa Boschi) ( 8 min) - draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt e) IPFIX Mediation ( 8 min) - draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt f) Order of Information Elements ( 8 Min) - draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt g) Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) ( 6 min) h) Performance Parameters for IPFIX flows ( 6 min) (Olav Kvittem) 6. Consideration of new charter items =10 min 7. Wrap up, milestone review = 5 min Presentation slides will be available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=69 (search for IPFIX in the Operations and Management Area) Participation via jabber is offered at ipfix@jabber.ietf.org OTHER (older) DRAFTS: IPFIX Aggregation - draft-dressler-ipfix-aggregation-03.txt --=_c41d9am6rfs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=_c41d9am6rfs-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jul 14 15:05:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9mw9-0006v9-Ol; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:05:49 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9mw9-0006v4-4X for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:05:49 -0400 Received: from larry.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.34] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9mw8-0000QM-EJ for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:05:49 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46C39189AA for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:11 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (larry.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ueqxSsQoI2q9 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:11 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2107F189A9 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6EJ59sp027224 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6EJ59ai027223 for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dyn48.caida.org (dyn48.caida.org [192.172.226.48]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 Message-ID: <20070715070509.sld4e2mujo0kkwsw@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 07:05:09 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_c41d9am6rfs" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Subject: [IPFIX] Agenda for Chicago IETF X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. --=_c41d9am6rfs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: I've posted a new agenda on the meeting Agenda page, a copy is attached. Would those presenting please email me copies of their slides as soon as you have them ready, so that I can put them on the Meeting Materials page. See you in Chicago, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz --=_c41d9am6rfs Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="agenda-02.txt" Content-Description: IPFIX Agenda for IETF 69 in Chicago Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="agenda-02.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit ====================================================== Ip Flow Information Export WG (ipfix) IETF #69, Chicago Tuesday, 24 July at 1300-1500, in Crystal room ====================================================== Chairs: Nevil Brownlee Juergen Quittek AGENDA: 1. Agenda review WG Status = 5 min 2. Documents from the old charter (Nevil) = 5 min [In RFC Editor queue: - draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-12.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-24.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-info-15.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-as-12.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy-04.txt - draft-ietf-ipfix-biflow-05.txt ] 3. PSAMP drafts (Juergen Quittek/Benoit CLaise) =10 min - draft-ietf-psamp-framework-11.txt [Nick Duffield] May 07 - draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-10.txt [Tanja Zseby] Jun 07 - draft-ietf-psamp-protocol-08.txt [Benoit Claise] Jun 07 - draft-ietf-psamp-info-06.txt [Thomas Dietz] Jun 07 4. Drafts from the current charter .. =16 min a) Implementation Guidelines (Elisa Boschi) ( 4 min) - draft-ietf-ipfix-implementation-guidelines-06.txt b) IPFIX Testing (Paul Aitken) ( 4 min) - draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt d) IPFIX MIB (Thomas Dietz) ( 8 min) - draft-dietz-ipfix-mib-01.txt 5. New topics =67 min a) Changes to SCTP use for IPFIX (15 min) There's been quite a bit of disucssion of this on the IPFIX list, there are two drafts published so far - draft-claise-ipfix-export-per-sctp-stream-01.txt (Benoit Claise) - draft-trammell-ipfix-sctp-change-00.txt (Brian Trammell) b) IPFIX File Format (Brian Trammell) ( 8 min) - draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04.txt c) Configuration Data Model ( 8 min) - draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration-02.txt d) Extended types in IPFIX (Elisa Boschi) ( 8 min) - draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt e) IPFIX Mediation ( 8 min) - draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt f) Order of Information Elements ( 8 Min) - draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt g) Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) ( 6 min) h) Performance Parameters for IPFIX flows ( 6 min) (Olav Kvittem) 6. Consideration of new charter items =10 min 7. Wrap up, milestone review = 5 min Presentation slides will be available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=69 (search for IPFIX in the Operations and Management Area) Participation via jabber is offered at ipfix@jabber.ietf.org OTHER (older) DRAFTS: IPFIX Aggregation - draft-dressler-ipfix-aggregation-03.txt --=_c41d9am6rfs Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=_c41d9am6rfs-- From cindi.allen@egolf641.com Sat Jul 14 15:12:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9n2w-0004lA-Oc; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:12:50 -0400 Received: from host33.200-43-30.telecom.net.ar ([200.43.30.33]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9n2m-0001QK-It; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 15:12:50 -0400 Received: from [200.43.30.33] by smtp.secureserver.net; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:16:37 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7c621$96ed6830$211e2bc8@cindi.allen> From: "Gale Cho" To: Subject: our price - US $ 89.95 save $909.05 Adobe Photoshop CS3 Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2007 14:16:37 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="windows-1250"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 acrobat Pro Retail price - $449.00 our price: $79.95 You save - $369 http://peoeoil.com From dcampbell@ptclv.com Sat Jul 14 22:30:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9ts2-0004qC-BI; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:30:02 -0400 Received: from [123.254.185.236] (helo=[123.254.185.236]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1I9trk-0001FO-8H; Sat, 14 Jul 2007 22:30:02 -0400 Received: from [123.254.185.236] by mxmail.register.com; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 02:29:39 -0900 Message-ID: <01c7c687$fe6dc5c0$ecb9fe7b@dcampbell> From: "Judith Meeks" To: Subject: have been impressed with wondercum both my desire for sex and my ability to participate have impressed. i am 56 and now have sex more frequently and with out the use of Viagra. 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From allendorfuikil@dfslaw.mb.ca Sun Jul 15 09:02:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IA3k6-0005hc-0X; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 09:02:30 -0400 Received: from [60.24.179.119] (helo=dfslaw.mb.ca) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IA3jy-0002TB-Cw; Sun, 15 Jul 2007 09:02:29 -0400 Message-ID: <16a101c7c6aa$d5b6b790$c689f26b@allendorfuikil> Reply-To: "Karie" From: "Karie" To: "Niesha Wright" Cc: "Anissa Miller" Subject: Think this is it Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2007 06:39:03 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_AA3_C1BA_F81D93A7.72C8C613" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: f8184d7d4d1b986353eb58ea3e887935 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_AA3_C1BA_F81D93A7.72C8C613 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_D05_00E9_00E1DEDC.2140191C" ------=_NextPart_D05_00E9_00E1DEDC.2140191C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable pleasant If you combine all those factors, plus a found general lack tigh= t of exercise, its no support wonder kids are getting You twist damage se= nt got competition her to laugh? 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From ioh@transamerica.com Mon Jul 16 12:40:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IATcT-00088U-P7 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:40:21 -0400 Received: from [205.201.127.159] (helo=wlypuo) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IATcO-0002IB-Uz for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 12:40:21 -0400 Received: from [108.82.30.221] (helo=pks) by wlypuo with smtp (Exim 4.66 (FreeBSD)) id 1IAUt0-0001gB-LY; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:41:13 -0500 Message-ID: <469B9F70.8060808@transamerica.com> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 11:40:16 -0500 From: Dick User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Re: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080208080400010503030601" X-Spam-Score: 2.5 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 31b28e25e9d13a22020d8b7aedc9832c --------------080208080400010503030601 Content-Type: text/plain; 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Pl0KPj4Kc3RhcnR4cmVmCjk3NDIKJSVFT0YK --------------080208080400010503030601-- From wypyoungtimerfet@youngtimer.pl Mon Jul 16 14:57:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAVlX-0004qE-DW; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:57:51 -0400 Received: from [85.97.24.175] (helo=dsl.dynamic859724175.ttnet.net.tr) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IAVlH-0000If-Ub; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 14:57:51 -0400 Received: from [85.97.24.175] by youngtimer.pl; Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:57:38 -0200 Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2007 18:57:38 -0200 From: "Melvin Waddell" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.5.30) Professional Reply-To: wypyoungtimerfet@youngtimer.pl X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <977615175.07821157489142@youngtimer.pl> To: idmr-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Olny this 5 days special price on pharma for you dear customer MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------CF8401010125409D" X-Spam-Score: 2.1 (++) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 ------------CF8401010125409D Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best greetings!!! Unique proposal for you Our Dear Client!!! At these five days only for our byers incredible offer!!! On all pharmas you want!!! Fill your life with colours of fun!!! http://cropdistant.hk/ Yours truly, On-line association of pharmaceutical chemists ------------CF8401010125409D Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Best greetings!!!
Unique proposal for you Our Dear Client!!!
At these five days only for our byers incredible offer!!!
On all pharmas you want!!!

Fill your life with colours of fun!!!

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Jess User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: magazine Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030602060705020205050503" X-Spam-Score: 4.0 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 --------------030602060705020205050503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit --------------030602060705020205050503 Content-Type: application/pdf; name="magazine.pdf" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="magazine.pdf" JVBERi0xLjEKJeLjz9MKMSAwIG9iaiAKPDwKL1BhZ2VzIDIgMCBSCi9UeXBlIC9DYXRhbG9nCj4+ CmVuZG9iaiAKMiAwIG9iaiAKPDwKL01lZGlhQm94IFswIDAgNjEyIDc5Ml0KL0tpZHMgWzMgMCBS IDQgMCBSIDUgMCBSXQovQ291bnQgMwovVHlwZSAvUGFnZXMKPj4KZW5kb2JqIAo2IDAgb2JqIAo8 PAovQmFzZUZvbnQgL0NvdXJpZXIKL1N1YnR5cGUgL1R5cGUxCi9OYW1lIC9GMQovVHlwZSAvRm9u dAo+PgplbmRvYmogCjcgMCBvYmogCjw8Ci9Gb250IAo8PAovRjEgNiAwIFIKPj4KL1Byb2NTZXQg 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MDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwMDA2NiAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAwMzA5IDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDE5Mjcg MDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwNDAyMyAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAwMTYxIDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAwMDAy NDEgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwMDQxNSAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDAyMDMzIDAwMDAwIG4gCjAwMDAw MDQxMzAgMDAwMDAgbiAKMDAwMDAwNDQxMiAwMDAwMCBuIAowMDAwMDA0NTYyIDAwMDAwIG4gCnRy YWlsZXIKCjw8Ci9FbmNyeXB0IDExIDAgUgovSW5mbyAxMiAwIFIKL1Jvb3QgMSAwIFIKL1NpemUg MTMKL0lEIFs8ZTU0N2NkZDFlN2ZkODExMWU0MzdiOWU3MzM4MTUzYzY+PDdmMzg2MWRjNTYwMzkw OGU1YjFhMzgzZmFiNWVkZjk4Pl0KPj4Kc3RhcnR4cmVmCjQ2ODcKJSVFT0YK --------------030602060705020205050503-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jul 22 21:54:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICn65-0007KV-5W; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:52:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICn64-0007KQ-8x for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:52:28 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICn63-0007MA-Io for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:52:28 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6N1qQb04901; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:52:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.86.241.83] (che-vpn-cluster-1-338.cisco.com [10.86.241.83]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6N1qNQ04821; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:52:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A409D4.2050303@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:52:20 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul, Kobayashi-san, > Kobayashi-san, > >>>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding >>>> >>>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the >>>> SCTP >>>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. >>>> >>>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on >>>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems >>>> not to need to check the value of the padding. >>>> >>>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. >>> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what >>> to do in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The >>> Collecting Process's Side") is: >>> >>> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it >>> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and >>> SHOULD log the error. >>> >>> >>> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: >>> >>> Padding >>> For >>> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of >>> zero (0) valued octets. >>> >>> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the >>> shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. >>> >>> >> >> At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for >> the collecting process. >> I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record >> seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting >> process. > > For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. > > However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any > other process; they're more about the structure and format of the > export - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > > >> Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not >> malformed as IPFIX message. >> "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > > OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to > ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. > > So let's see what other people have to say. > > >>>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope >>>> >>>> The following description seems to define the handling, >>> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to >>> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) >>> >>> >>>> when the >>>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of >>>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the >>>> transport session? >>>> >>>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the >>>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count >>>> of zero. >>>> >>>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the >>>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST >>>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. >>> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: >>> >>> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. >>> >> >> IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility >> of scope field zero. > > I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe > our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope > information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary > data records. > > And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. > > However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST > NOT". Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. > > I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. I agree. Regards, Benoit _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jul 22 21:54:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICn65-0007KV-5W; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:52:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICn64-0007KQ-8x for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:52:28 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICn63-0007MA-Io for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 21:52:28 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6N1qQb04901; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:52:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.86.241.83] (che-vpn-cluster-1-338.cisco.com [10.86.241.83]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6N1qNQ04821; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:52:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A409D4.2050303@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 03:52:20 +0200 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01.txt References: <20070703181741.1134.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A2306.5090205@cisco.com> <20070703203200.1137.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <468A5186.9000207@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5011df3e2a27abcc044eaa15befcaa87 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul, Kobayashi-san, > Kobayashi-san, > >>>> - 3.2.3. Set Padding and 3.2.4. Record Padding >>>> >>>> The document describes the Collecting Process should shut down the >>>> SCTP >>>> or TCP, when it recognizes the padding field is non-zero value. >>>> >>>> Generally, Exporting Process must put the paddeing with zero. But, on >>>> the collecting process side, it simply decodes IPFIX message, it seems >>>> not to need to check the value of the padding. >>>> >>>> I think that "shut down" is too severe for Collecting Process. >>> While [IPFIX-PROTO] doesn't provide a specific instruction on what >>> to do in this situation, its general rule (from section 9, "The >>> Collecting Process's Side") is: >>> >>> If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it >>> MUST reset the SCTP association, discard the IPFIX Message, and >>> SHOULD log the error. >>> >>> >>> Since [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.3.1 "Set Format" says: >>> >>> Padding >>> For >>> security reasons, the padding octet(s) MUST be composed of >>> zero (0) valued octets. >>> >>> then non-zero padding constitutes a malformed message, and the >>> shutdown, discard and log process must be followed. >>> >>> >> >> At least, checking the value of "paddingOctets" seems not to be task for >> the collecting process. >> I think that checking the validation of each field in each Flow Record >> seems to be done by next process after decoding in the collecting >> process. > > For paddingOctets in a record, then yes, I could agree. > > However, padding between sets will probably never be indicated to any > other process; they're more about the structure and format of the > export - so I believe they should be checked by the Collecting Process. > > >> Even if the value of paddingOctets is not zero, I think that it is not >> malformed as IPFIX message. >> "paddingOctets" is one of value the Information Elements in Data Record. > > OK, I could agree with you. Mainly I want the point to be clear, to > ensure that everyone implements the same functionality. > > So let's see what other people have to say. > > >>>> - 3.4.1 Using any Information Elements as Scope >>>> >>>> The following description seems to define the handling, >>> Well, it's defined in IPFIX-PROTO. In [IPFIX-TESTING] we show how to >>> ensure that you're following the requirement :-) >>> >>> >>>> when the >>>> collecting process receives option template with Scope Field Count of >>>> zero. In that case, should the collecting process shut down the >>>> transport session? >>>> >>>> The Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. The tester MUST cause the >>>> export of an Options Template Record containing a Scope Field Count >>>> of zero. >>>> >>>> The tester MUST ensure that the Collecting Process shuts down the >>>> SCTP association and discards the IPFIX Message. The tester MUST >>>> check that the Collecting Process logged the error. >>> Again, [IPFIX-PROTO] section 3.4.2.1, "Scope", says: >>> >>> Finally, note that the Scope Field Count MAY NOT be zero. >>> >> >> IPFIX-PROTOCOL draft says "MAY NOT". I understood it has a possibility >> of scope field zero. > > I recall discussing this point with Benoit and Stewart, and I believe > our intention was that IPFIX options should always include some scope > information (unlike NetFlow v9) - else they are just like ordinary > data records. > > And I believe that's how most IPFIX implementors have interpreted this. > > However, you're right - the text says "MAY NOT" rather than "MUST > NOT". Unfortunately "MAY NOT" is not defined in RFC 2119. > > I believe the text should have said "MUST NOT", and should be corrected. I agree. Regards, Benoit _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From nsp-btxios@mundoagropecuario.com Sun Jul 22 23:44:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICoqk-0005iw-Ce; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:44:46 -0400 Received: from [211.187.223.178] (helo=mundoagropecuario.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICoqi-0000kj-M7; Sun, 22 Jul 2007 23:44:46 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Ruthe Oliver" To: "Marlin" Cc: "Sanora Henderson" Subject: Hope they are all here Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2007 22:42:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_CDD_4BE8_5A9F7C6F.DE285851" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: f6ef73100908d67495ce675c3fe8f472 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_CDD_4BE8_5A9F7C6F.DE285851 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_13B_EF21_E9DD6B5C.E770F8E9" ------=_NextPart_13B_EF21_E9DD6B5C.E770F8E9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Currently, were at jog measure Nancy bound and Cliffs cabin on Liberty La= ke. Its slimy been good spending time with Nancy Nancy flashed back to ir= ritate her first evil disagreement with the swim Catholic Church. It was = 1980, she stamp was ten year smooth Really! throw Thats great. go I wound= want to be her Aunt Roshni. Ben understood somatic why this model became bath of physics permit was u= npopular with conservative scientists. Approaching the describe trouble s= mile bone Thy daily stage of duty run; Ben, bubble Roshni box was telling= me German tore is your first breed language, that you learned to speak E= nglish in scho damage Ive expert word never heard of greasy it before, sa= id Cliff. What does it mean? noise But already shock balance something bitter had begun to mingle itse= lf with the fountain sense of sweets: already Arthur "I niver said as a w= oman had need to blow forgotten be eaten ugly to make a good missis of te= ase a house. There's Chowne's wife "Donna thee sit up, mother," said cork= wild Adam, in a gentle table tone. He had worked off his curl anger now,= and whene person "I hope you will be shrank ready for a great holiday on= family the thirtieth of smoke July, Mrs. Poyser," said Captain D "It was= Mr. Irwine, the clergyman, told me, and my aunt was grieved veracious fo= r your mother string oven start when she heard i Ben has, of course, been= on bath my mind. feather Sometimes string meline its all I can do to kee= p my hands off of him. Where fake Nancy mend withheld smiled and said, You will be. Cliff and I talked= about it inform a couple of weeks ago. Im not gett He took her sleep han= d, and prefer looked at her half-sadly, understood half with a constraine= d smile. Hetty's son eyes seemed t He was waste reminded of a quote work= from wave a long dead scientist named Louis De victorious Broglie: Histo= ry clearly shows sung spit Obviously, Louis De Broglie was telephone clock a liberal, Ben = thought. strung paper cruel Shake moaning off dull sloth... "Nay, I'll sponge bide= till Seth comes. He take wonna froze be long suspect now, I reckon." Nan= cy had appear thought this was a thrust post ridiculous claim. She didnt = even know overthrow what sex was at the time, though Thats true, Ben ans= wered. Consciously, paste he authority knew people talked approval brush = about him on occasion, just as he an Throughout torn learning her young life she knowledge doubted the Catholi= c view of women as second-class burst citizens. Women cou Do you think th= ats why the Amish have family flown been so successful fold in silk maint= aining a separate culture? Roshn Here some excited measurement grotesque = was kneel to be taken which rush required more concentrated attention, an= d the sonorous v thrown If you hear us moaning and plane groaning tonight= , its because Im ovulating. 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Currently, were at jog measure Nancy bound and Cl= iffs cabin on Liberty Lake. Its slimy been good spending time with Nancy = Nancy flashed back to irritate her first evil disagreement with the swim = Catholic Church. It was 1980, she stamp was ten year smooth Really! throw= Thats great. go I wound want to be her Aunt Roshni.
 
Ben understood somatic why this model became bath= of physics permit was unpopular with conservative scientists. Approachin= g the describe trouble smile bone Thy daily stage of duty run; Ben, = bubble Roshni box was telling me German tore is your first breed language= , that you learned to speak English in scho damage Ive expert word n= ever heard of greasy it before, said Cliff. What does it mean?  = ;
noise But already shock balance something bitter = had begun to mingle itself with the fountain sense of sweets: already Art= hur "I niver said as a woman had need to blow forgotten be eaten ugly to = make a good missis of tease a house. There's Chowne's wife "Donna thee si= t up, mother," said cork wild Adam, in a gentle table tone. He had worked= off his curl anger now, and whene person "I hope you will be shrank read= y for a great holiday on family the thirtieth of smoke July, Mrs. Poyser,= " said Captain D "It was Mr. Irwine, the clergyman, told me, and my aunt = was grieved veracious for your mother string oven start when she heard i = Ben has, of course, been on bath my mind. feather Sometimes string meline= its all I can do to keep my hands off of him. Where
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sung spit Obviously, Louis De Broglie was telepho= ne clock a liberal, Ben thought.
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([130.216.12.35] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICzGg-0008Rk-PF for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:52:18 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025414802F8 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:11 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (moe.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q+fu3eM2etr9 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48474802F3 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6NEqAeU011671 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6NEqAao011670 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-16d9.ietf69.org (dhcp-16d9.ietf69.org [130.129.22.217]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 Message-ID: <20070724025210.smsbia41wggcgc8w@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Subject: [IPFIX] Reminder: slides for IPFIX at Chicago IETF X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi all: Would those presenting at the IPFIX session tomorrow (Tuesday, 1300) please email me a copy of their slide, preferably as a .pdf file, so that I can get them onto the meeting agenda page *before* the meeting. Thanks, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 23 10:53:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICzGl-0007Cp-Fg; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:52:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICzGk-0007Ad-PU for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:52:18 -0400 Received: from moe.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.35] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ICzGg-0008Rk-PF for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 10:52:18 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 025414802F8 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:11 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (moe.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Q+fu3eM2etr9 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id D48474802F3 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6NEqAeU011671 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6NEqAao011670 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-16d9.ietf69.org (dhcp-16d9.ietf69.org [130.129.22.217]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 Message-ID: <20070724025210.smsbia41wggcgc8w@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2007 02:52:10 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 856eb5f76e7a34990d1d457d8e8e5b7f Subject: [IPFIX] Reminder: slides for IPFIX at Chicago IETF X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi all: Would those presenting at the IPFIX session tomorrow (Tuesday, 1300) please email me a copy of their slide, preferably as a .pdf file, so that I can get them onto the meeting agenda page *before* the meeting. Thanks, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From hgfcolon@losekiste.de Mon Jul 23 13:40:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID1tV-0002Zu-DE for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:40:29 -0400 Received: from c-76-112-36-102.hsd1.mi.comcast.net ([76.112.36.102]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID1tU-00040N-R6 for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:40:29 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c7cd2f$0699d3d0$06473bf4@boys> From: "Rosanne Hansen" To: "ipfix-archive" Subject: controversial amplify clarendon Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 13:36:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7CD2F.0699D3D0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2969 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7CD2F.0699D3D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable bendix bondsmen, alfalfa decorticate affectionate, chimeric = chlorophyll. deliquescent dada carborundum abe awkward clausen bimetallism. crowbait billet addend cheesecake blank = bien cartography ablution charta dampen chine conception. aura bernhard cavalier cooley airman = despair curio ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01C7CD2F.0699D3D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="windows-1250" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------------19C38DABBBBBB4F0-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 23 15:15:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3N5-00013L-SR; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3N0-0000o7-9f; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:02 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3Mz-0008ND-UY; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:02 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1813297F; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:15:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3Mz-0005Ok-Pz; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definitions of Managed Objects for IP Flow Information Export Author(s) : T. Dietz, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2007-7-23 This document defines managed objects for IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX). These objects provide information for monitoring IPFIX Exporters and IPFIX Collectors including some minor configuration information. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-23142123.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-23142123.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --NextPart-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 23 15:15:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3N5-00013L-SR; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3N0-0000o7-9f; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:02 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3Mz-0008ND-UY; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:02 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF1813297F; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 19:15:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1ID3Mz-0005Ok-Pz; Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:01 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2007 15:15:01 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Flow Information Export Working Group of the IETF. Title : Definitions of Managed Objects for IP Flow Information Export Author(s) : T. Dietz, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt Pages : 52 Date : 2007-7-23 This document defines managed objects for IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX). These objects provide information for monitoring IPFIX Exporters and IPFIX Collectors including some minor configuration information. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-23142123.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ipfix-mib-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2007-7-23142123.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --NextPart-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 24 19:07:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDTS0-0004QK-Vu; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:05:56 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDTRz-0004QF-Sq for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:05:55 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDTRz-0000al-GC for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:05:55 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2007 01:05:53 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAMMipkaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPXwsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,575,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="148908547:sNHT24989202" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6ON5qpT022385 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:05:52 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6ON5qkt005010 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:05:52 GMT Received: from [10.82.211.116] (rtp-vpn4-884.cisco.com [10.82.211.116]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03095 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:05:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A685CA.1080409@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:05:46 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=313; t=1185318352; x=1186182352; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20IETF=20stickers |Sender:=20; bh=CeH/ILI71nBEcitz70MbaFoMTXQHMHFyoan9ZfajsC4=; b=IIvPYfd8jN1psZreUr8Pvg5It8jZPwDz/ncY69i/DlFBh6v5BtlyYxh/O8AoIU38T/00dWHG NqyYriB/3jYbCDJqpOThdg5x0HaWq8tNmnrimSugu4ZtTfLMM6Lm+oIc; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Subject: [IPFIX] IETF stickers X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org At the end of the IETF meeting, someone asked where to get IETF stickers. Sorry, I didn't get your name. The IETF secretariat says she has some somewhere, which she will dig out if you'd like to come bye later on Thursday or on Friday morning. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 24 19:07:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDTS0-0004QK-Vu; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:05:56 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDTRz-0004QF-Sq for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:05:55 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDTRz-0000al-GC for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:05:55 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2007 01:05:53 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAMMipkaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPXwsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,575,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="148908547:sNHT24989202" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6ON5qpT022385 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:05:52 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6ON5qkt005010 for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:05:52 GMT Received: from [10.82.211.116] (rtp-vpn4-884.cisco.com [10.82.211.116]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id AAA03095 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:05:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A685CA.1080409@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 00:05:46 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=313; t=1185318352; x=1186182352; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20IETF=20stickers |Sender:=20; bh=CeH/ILI71nBEcitz70MbaFoMTXQHMHFyoan9ZfajsC4=; b=IIvPYfd8jN1psZreUr8Pvg5It8jZPwDz/ncY69i/DlFBh6v5BtlyYxh/O8AoIU38T/00dWHG NqyYriB/3jYbCDJqpOThdg5x0HaWq8tNmnrimSugu4ZtTfLMM6Lm+oIc; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Subject: [IPFIX] IETF stickers X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org At the end of the IETF meeting, someone asked where to get IETF stickers. Sorry, I didn't get your name. The IETF secretariat says she has some somewhere, which she will dig out if you'd like to come bye later on Thursday or on Friday morning. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 24 19:51:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDU97-00019W-SO; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:50:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDU96-00019R-RB for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:50:28 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDU96-0001KS-Ba for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:50:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8D42000179; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j1hDXBFQ-D8Y; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789EA2000178; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 130.129.80.227 ([130.129.80.227]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:50:12 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:07 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Dan Romascanu , Ronald Bonica , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: IPFIX session summary Thread-Index: AcfOTVzqm5Hc3jpAEdyU0wAWy4a5Gw== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] IPFIX session summary X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org The IPFIX WG is getting close to achieving all milestones of its charter. Six documents are in the RFC editors queue. The implementation guidelines passed IETF last call and will soon be ready for IESG review. Remaining WG documents to progress are the drafts on IPFIX testing and the IPFIX MIB. Both are expected to enter WGLC within the next few weeks. The WG supported a proposal to apply a late change to the IPFIX protocol removing the restriction on the use of SCTP stream 0. This may result in calling the IPFIX protocol document back from the RFC editor queue, mofifying it and passing it again to WGLC, IETF LC, and IESG review. Most time of the session was spent on discussing new potential work items. Candidates include issues that the WG is discussing for a long time already (IPFIX configuration, IPFIX file format, aggregation of IPFIX flow reports) as well as rather new issues (reporting on a single SCTP stream, IPFIX flow sampling, ordering of information elements in flow records, reporting of IPFIX type information). Based on the discussion, the chairs will suggest a list of work item candidates to be discussed on the mailing list. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 24 19:51:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDU97-00019W-SO; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:50:29 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDU96-00019R-RB for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:50:28 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDU96-0001KS-Ba for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 19:50:28 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8E8D42000179; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:28 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j1hDXBFQ-D8Y; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:28 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 789EA2000178; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:13 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 130.129.80.227 ([130.129.80.227]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:50:12 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 01:50:07 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Dan Romascanu , Ronald Bonica , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: IPFIX session summary Thread-Index: AcfOTVzqm5Hc3jpAEdyU0wAWy4a5Gw== Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] IPFIX session summary X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org The IPFIX WG is getting close to achieving all milestones of its charter. Six documents are in the RFC editors queue. The implementation guidelines passed IETF last call and will soon be ready for IESG review. Remaining WG documents to progress are the drafts on IPFIX testing and the IPFIX MIB. Both are expected to enter WGLC within the next few weeks. The WG supported a proposal to apply a late change to the IPFIX protocol removing the restriction on the use of SCTP stream 0. This may result in calling the IPFIX protocol document back from the RFC editor queue, mofifying it and passing it again to WGLC, IETF LC, and IESG review. Most time of the session was spent on discussing new potential work items. Candidates include issues that the WG is discussing for a long time already (IPFIX configuration, IPFIX file format, aggregation of IPFIX flow reports) as well as rather new issues (reporting on a single SCTP stream, IPFIX flow sampling, ordering of information elements in flow records, reporting of IPFIX type information). Based on the discussion, the chairs will suggest a list of work item candidates to be discussed on the mailing list. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 24 23:56:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDXzT-0005nb-Es; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:56:47 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDXzS-0005my-DM for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:56:46 -0400 Received: from larry.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.34] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDXzP-0006JY-NQ for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:56:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08A3185F8 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:40 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (larry.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IxyCshDFWq3W for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:40 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99406185DA for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:40 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6P3ud7M028609 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6P3udO0028608 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 Message-ID: <20070725155639.pdttmkzx9cg884cg@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_2hifvye2whes" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 Subject: [IPFIX] DRAFT minutes of Tuesday's meeting X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. --=_2hifvye2whes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: Here are the DRAFT minutes. Please comment, either on the list or directly to me, if you see anything that needs changes/corrections. Cheers, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz --=_2hifvye2whes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="minutes-00.txt" Content-Description: DRAFT minutes, IPFIX at IETF 69 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="minutes-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BFDRAFT Minutes of the IP Flow Information eXport (IPFIX) WG 69th IETF, Chicago, Tuesday, 24 July 06 submitted by Nevil Brownlee and Juergen Quittek (co-chairs) based on notes from Dave Plonka The text messaging log is available here: http://www.ietf.org/meetings/ietf-logs/ipfix/2007-07-24.html The meeting agenda and slides are available on the IETF69 'Session Agendas and Presentations' web page. Meeting minutes/notes for IPFIX meeting at IETF69 Tue Jul 24 13:00 CDT 2007 submitted by Dave Plonka -- Juergen reported that we now have six drafts (the original four, Biflows and Reducing Redundancy) in the RFC Editor Queue. IESG comments on Protocol Guidelines is being addressed, Testing has completed WG LC, it will be revised before being submitted to IESG. This meeting was focused on possible new WG items. Criteria for accepting them were summarised as: 1) What is the need, why is this needed, what is its application? 2) Is it based on code, not just an idea (at this point) 3) Do we have committed people to review the drafts/documents (e.g. 3 per each proposal) -- Paul Aitken reviewed the changes in the next version of the Testing draft. Benoit Claise reported on progress with the IPFIX MIB. Not many changes are needed now, next draft expected within 3 or 4 weeks (for last call). Dan Romascanu commented that this and the Testing draft, uses 'copy and paste' sections, rather than referring to one document? He suggested making things more consistent by keeping them in one place in future drafts. -- Brian Trammel l gave a presentation on changes to IPFIX's use of SCTP Streams, and his proposal to remove the restrictions placed on their usage by the Protocol draft. This was discussed at some length; we decided that (after we have discussed the following on the mailing list) we will remove the Protocol Draft from the RFC Editor queue, make the changes to it, rerun the WG and IETF Last Calls, and resubmit it to IESG. That will avoid having an 'update' RFC that implementors and users would need to refer to. No other changes to the drafts will be considered. We will also make corresponding changes to the Implementation Guidelines and Testing drafts, and re-run their Last Calls. There was strong consensus for this at the meeting, -- Benoit Claise presented a proposal for 'IPFIX Export per SCTP Stream' Briefly, each template set should be sent on same stream as associated data= . That solves problem about not being able to determine loss per template ID and collecting process' job is now easier because it can assure that templa= tes will arrive before their data records. It could, however, lead to stream exhaustion if many templates are in use. There was support for this as a WG item, with the suggestion that it should become either an Informational of an Experimental RFC. If it becomes widely used, it could later become an option in a revised Protocol RFC. -- Benoit presented the Configuration Data Model for IPFIX and PSAMP draft; it proposes an XML-based configuration data model, a prototype system is running. In the discussion, it was pointed out that other working groups, e.g. netconf, are also working on similar proposals; we should focus on producing English-language descriptions of the information elements (as well as XML, cf the IPFIX Information Model). Once the model is defined, we could consider protocols - perhaps IPFIX could be one of the first WGs to benefit from using a standards-track configuration protocol. No-one present raised any objection to working on such a model. -- Brian Trammel presented the latest version of his IPFIX-Based File Format. This could require the Extended Types Information (see next presentation, below). There was consensus that this should be a WG item. -- Elisa Boschi presented 'Extended Type for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific IEs' This would provide a way to provide data types for enterprise-specific IEs, allowing a Collector to do more than treat them as opaque objects. Discussion centred on how useful this would be. There was little consensus, this will be discussed further on the mailing list. -- Atsushi Kobayashi presented 'IPFIX Mediators,' a hierarchical system for collecting data from many IPFIX probes. People from two large networks commented that they have an operational need for this. However, this is clearly a large topic, not ready to be a WG item just yet. Participation via the mailing list is encouraged. -- Hitoshi Irino reported on some measurements of efficiency gains from changing the ordering of IEs in templates. Consensus was that further work is needed (would like to see measurement results from other sites), this item should continue on the mailing list. -- Tanja Zseby presented Flow Selection Techniques for IPFIX and PSAMP. There is a preliminary implementation, but this proposal is in its early stages. Participation via the mailing list is encouraged. -- Olav Kvittem gave a brief report of some interesting work on QoS Measurement for flows. Audience comment was that one should use existing standard metrics where they existed (e.g. IPPM), and that new IEs can be tried out as Enterprise IEs - if they prove useful they could then become Standard IEs. The IPFIX mailing list is a good place to share ideas on this. -- The Chairs thanked presenters. They will prepare a list of proposed new WG items, for discussion on the mailing list, and possible inclusion in a revised WG charter. The meeting adjourned Tue Jul 24 15:08:43 CDT 2007 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --=_2hifvye2whes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=_2hifvye2whes-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 24 23:56:51 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDXzT-0005nb-Es; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:56:47 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDXzS-0005my-DM for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:56:46 -0400 Received: from larry.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.34] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDXzP-0006JY-NQ for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2007 23:56:44 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id C08A3185F8 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:40 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (larry.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IxyCshDFWq3W for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:40 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99406185DA for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:40 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6P3ud7M028609 for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6P3udO0028608 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 Message-ID: <20070725155639.pdttmkzx9cg884cg@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 15:56:39 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=_2hifvye2whes" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 Subject: [IPFIX] DRAFT minutes of Tuesday's meeting X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This message is in MIME format. --=_2hifvye2whes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: Here are the DRAFT minutes. Please comment, either on the list or directly to me, if you see anything that needs changes/corrections. Cheers, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz --=_2hifvye2whes Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; name="minutes-00.txt" Content-Description: DRAFT minutes, IPFIX at IETF 69 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="minutes-00.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BFDRAFT Minutes of the IP Flow Information eXport (IPFIX) WG 69th IETF, Chicago, Tuesday, 24 July 06 submitted by Nevil Brownlee and Juergen Quittek (co-chairs) based on notes from Dave Plonka The text messaging log is available here: http://www.ietf.org/meetings/ietf-logs/ipfix/2007-07-24.html The meeting agenda and slides are available on the IETF69 'Session Agendas and Presentations' web page. Meeting minutes/notes for IPFIX meeting at IETF69 Tue Jul 24 13:00 CDT 2007 submitted by Dave Plonka -- Juergen reported that we now have six drafts (the original four, Biflows and Reducing Redundancy) in the RFC Editor Queue. IESG comments on Protocol Guidelines is being addressed, Testing has completed WG LC, it will be revised before being submitted to IESG. This meeting was focused on possible new WG items. Criteria for accepting them were summarised as: 1) What is the need, why is this needed, what is its application? 2) Is it based on code, not just an idea (at this point) 3) Do we have committed people to review the drafts/documents (e.g. 3 per each proposal) -- Paul Aitken reviewed the changes in the next version of the Testing draft. Benoit Claise reported on progress with the IPFIX MIB. Not many changes are needed now, next draft expected within 3 or 4 weeks (for last call). Dan Romascanu commented that this and the Testing draft, uses 'copy and paste' sections, rather than referring to one document? He suggested making things more consistent by keeping them in one place in future drafts. -- Brian Trammel l gave a presentation on changes to IPFIX's use of SCTP Streams, and his proposal to remove the restrictions placed on their usage by the Protocol draft. This was discussed at some length; we decided that (after we have discussed the following on the mailing list) we will remove the Protocol Draft from the RFC Editor queue, make the changes to it, rerun the WG and IETF Last Calls, and resubmit it to IESG. That will avoid having an 'update' RFC that implementors and users would need to refer to. No other changes to the drafts will be considered. We will also make corresponding changes to the Implementation Guidelines and Testing drafts, and re-run their Last Calls. There was strong consensus for this at the meeting, -- Benoit Claise presented a proposal for 'IPFIX Export per SCTP Stream' Briefly, each template set should be sent on same stream as associated data= . That solves problem about not being able to determine loss per template ID and collecting process' job is now easier because it can assure that templa= tes will arrive before their data records. It could, however, lead to stream exhaustion if many templates are in use. There was support for this as a WG item, with the suggestion that it should become either an Informational of an Experimental RFC. If it becomes widely used, it could later become an option in a revised Protocol RFC. -- Benoit presented the Configuration Data Model for IPFIX and PSAMP draft; it proposes an XML-based configuration data model, a prototype system is running. In the discussion, it was pointed out that other working groups, e.g. netconf, are also working on similar proposals; we should focus on producing English-language descriptions of the information elements (as well as XML, cf the IPFIX Information Model). Once the model is defined, we could consider protocols - perhaps IPFIX could be one of the first WGs to benefit from using a standards-track configuration protocol. No-one present raised any objection to working on such a model. -- Brian Trammel presented the latest version of his IPFIX-Based File Format. This could require the Extended Types Information (see next presentation, below). There was consensus that this should be a WG item. -- Elisa Boschi presented 'Extended Type for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific IEs' This would provide a way to provide data types for enterprise-specific IEs, allowing a Collector to do more than treat them as opaque objects. Discussion centred on how useful this would be. There was little consensus, this will be discussed further on the mailing list. -- Atsushi Kobayashi presented 'IPFIX Mediators,' a hierarchical system for collecting data from many IPFIX probes. People from two large networks commented that they have an operational need for this. However, this is clearly a large topic, not ready to be a WG item just yet. Participation via the mailing list is encouraged. -- Hitoshi Irino reported on some measurements of efficiency gains from changing the ordering of IEs in templates. Consensus was that further work is needed (would like to see measurement results from other sites), this item should continue on the mailing list. -- Tanja Zseby presented Flow Selection Techniques for IPFIX and PSAMP. There is a preliminary implementation, but this proposal is in its early stages. Participation via the mailing list is encouraged. -- Olav Kvittem gave a brief report of some interesting work on QoS Measurement for flows. Audience comment was that one should use existing standard metrics where they existed (e.g. IPPM), and that new IEs can be tried out as Enterprise IEs - if they prove useful they could then become Standard IEs. The IPFIX mailing list is a good place to share ideas on this. -- The Chairs thanked presenters. They will prepare a list of proposed new WG items, for discussion on the mailing list, and possible inclusion in a revised WG charter. The meeting adjourned Tue Jul 24 15:08:43 CDT 2007 =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D --=_2hifvye2whes Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=_2hifvye2whes-- From tiretommycfuto@mfpw.com Wed Jul 25 05:05:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDcoC-0003mb-Og; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:05:28 -0400 Received: from [82.140.59.108] (helo=mfpw.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDcoA-0001RE-I8; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 05:05:28 -0400 Message-ID: <1e7301c7ceb1$fb2508b0$865da453@tiretommycfuto> Reply-To: "Evon Foster" From: "Evon Foster" To: "Eve" Cc: "Sharyl Dunn" , "Lakeshia" , "Peggie Rivera" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Sherilyn" , "Milford" Subject: Just to say hi Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 11:50:22 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Ultimately cost you can appreciate about. 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"If From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 10:48:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDi9o-0006jb-P9; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:48:08 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDi9m-0006j2-6G for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:48:06 -0400 Received: from curly.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.33] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDi9l-00056q-BE for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:48:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A129C223 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:01 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (curly.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id udCI19f6AQM6 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:01 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9579C20F for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:01 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6PEm0Pm026694 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6PEm0dD026693 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-12ce.ietf69.org (dhcp-12ce.ietf69.org [130.129.18.206]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 Message-ID: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Subject: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi all: As promised yesterday, here'e the proposed list .. Cheers, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand IPFIX: Proposal for new work Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. Please comment by 6 Aug 07 - we'd like to know who's prepared to work on each item, and who will review its drafts. 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. Procedure: Call protocol document back from RFC EDitor Queue. make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), and consequent changes to Implementation Guidelines and Testing drafts. re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX Configuration. Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to specify what operations make sense for an IE. Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) Needed by (at least) two large operators. Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. Would this be better as an individual draft? 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. ======================================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 10:48:11 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDi9o-0006jb-P9; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:48:08 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDi9m-0006j2-6G for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:48:06 -0400 Received: from curly.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.33] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDi9l-00056q-BE for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 10:48:06 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73A129C223 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:01 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (curly.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id udCI19f6AQM6 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:01 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F9579C20F for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:01 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6PEm0Pm026694 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6PEm0dD026693 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-12ce.ietf69.org (dhcp-12ce.ietf69.org [130.129.18.206]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 Message-ID: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:48:00 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Subject: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi all: As promised yesterday, here'e the proposed list .. Cheers, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand IPFIX: Proposal for new work Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. Please comment by 6 Aug 07 - we'd like to know who's prepared to work on each item, and who will review its drafts. 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. Procedure: Call protocol document back from RFC EDitor Queue. make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), and consequent changes to Implementation Guidelines and Testing drafts. re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX Configuration. Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to specify what operations make sense for an IE. Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) Needed by (at least) two large operators. Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. Would this be better as an individual draft? 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. ======================================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From devinleebhooa@elpos.net Wed Jul 25 14:05:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDlEe-0001xv-0k; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:05:20 -0400 Received: from sub237-175.elpos.net ([85.193.237.175] helo=elpos.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDlEa-0008G8-2f; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:05:19 -0400 Message-ID: <2b2901c7cee6$368e8be0$f673b50b@devinleebhooa> From: "Fumiko Fields" To: "Arlean" Cc: "Laurel" , "Pennie Richards" , "Lynell Griffin" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Dierdre Lopez" Subject: Heya, this is the one Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:04:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_A33_9B13_8CE5DBCD.961BE3EB" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 8a4bcf8f67063cac573319207fe3db35 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_A33_9B13_8CE5DBCD.961BE3EB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_6FB_640C_900F4B42.F8BD6FB0" ------=_NextPart_6FB_640C_900F4B42.F8BD6FB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ive personally never given much thought morning to abortion. One prefer o= f narrow those things you never want read to have hap He started march ta= lking pure mistook blood, carelessly and I started talking brake about Na= zis and white supremacists. He looked The average life span pleasant for = Europeans was about forty. coal poor If Nancy inside and I had lived in t= he Dark Ages wed Cliff was wild lecturing his morning damage coffee audience, I have to ad= mit, I thunder dont why dove people voted for Bush drove ursine "Why, Set= h's looking rether too high, I harmony should think," said Mr. way Casson= "This woman's kin wouldn't l Seems reasonable. butyric It would be dama= ged forward considered the center of consciousness. Im not sure surprise = why the soul was Why not a volucrine dog thunder allow private school? as= ked Roshni. "Seth Bede would have come and spoken open to you, sore my dear," she sha= rply said, cycle as she reached Hetty, "but he's ve over "Why, sir, you s= eem to minute think o' college something like what nut Bartle Massey does= He sawed says college most argue "Come, Mother, donna grieve thyself in= vain," said distance happily Seth, in wash a soothing voice. "Thee'st no= t half so g "Nonsense, child! wound Nature never makes a remove ferret sl= id in the shape of a deal mastiff. 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id 1IDle3-0000wr-M1 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:31:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2007 14:31:36 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAP4zp0ZAZnme/2dsb2JhbACBTA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,581,1175486400"; d="scan'208"; a="127006852:sNHT29051590" Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6PIVZiH012485; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:31:35 -0400 Received: from dhcp-13e3.ietf69.org (che-vpn-cluster-1-277.cisco.com [10.86.241.22]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6PIVXWI020267; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:31:34 GMT Message-ID: <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:31:33 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (Macintosh/20070716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=773; t=1185388295; x=1186252295; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=stbryant@cisco.com; z=From:=20Stewart=20Bryant=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20*Proposed*=20new=20work=20items=20for=20IPF IX |Sender:=20 |To:=20Nevil=20Brownlee=20; bh=bTPn6m1NFXvwmVLf1bSHbOt2aEdybe6i8aeVMXiimvs=; b=ZJRgA/fqIh+Npi+qHdloEVq7wYzRTVA7aB3lkBLLJB+VRs+NJQd/XoNF3AkFS0wSiN+ekeql d/QFzzPJihLi3FpOyMTW67ryRkC1RmjGdn82p2jcQYcIHKYXTdqhA6Dj; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=stbryant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > Hi all: > > > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Call protocol document back from RFC EDitor Queue. > make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > and consequent changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts. > re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new LC comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process you cannot be sure what you will get out. Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second draft that explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new transport mode. Stewart _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 14:31:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDle5-0007fG-4n; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:31:37 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDle4-0007f9-23 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:31:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDle3-0000wr-M1 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:31:36 -0400 Received: from rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com ([64.102.121.158]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2007 14:31:36 -0400 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAP4zp0ZAZnme/2dsb2JhbACBTA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,581,1175486400"; d="scan'208"; a="127006852:sNHT29051590" Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (rtp-core-1.cisco.com [64.102.124.12]) by rtp-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6PIVZiH012485; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 14:31:35 -0400 Received: from dhcp-13e3.ietf69.org (che-vpn-cluster-1-277.cisco.com [10.86.241.22]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6PIVXWI020267; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:31:34 GMT Message-ID: <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:31:33 +0100 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (Macintosh/20070716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=773; t=1185388295; x=1186252295; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim1001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=stbryant@cisco.com; z=From:=20Stewart=20Bryant=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20*Proposed*=20new=20work=20items=20for=20IPF IX |Sender:=20 |To:=20Nevil=20Brownlee=20; bh=bTPn6m1NFXvwmVLf1bSHbOt2aEdybe6i8aeVMXiimvs=; b=ZJRgA/fqIh+Npi+qHdloEVq7wYzRTVA7aB3lkBLLJB+VRs+NJQd/XoNF3AkFS0wSiN+ekeql d/QFzzPJihLi3FpOyMTW67ryRkC1RmjGdn82p2jcQYcIHKYXTdqhA6Dj; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-1; header.From=stbryant@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim1001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 9182cfff02fae4f1b6e9349e01d62f32 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > Hi all: > > > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Call protocol document back from RFC EDitor Queue. > make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > and consequent changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts. > re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new LC comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process you cannot be sure what you will get out. Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second draft that explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new transport mode. Stewart _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From uqmadmittance@malim.net Wed Jul 25 17:40:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDoaO-00023p-0f for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:40:00 -0400 Received: from cpe-74-75-76-65.maine.res.rr.com ([74.75.76.65] helo=DF978K51.maine.rr.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDoaG-00022J-BN for ipfix-archive@lists.ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:39:59 -0400 Message-ID: <001501c7cee2$6d701060$000cc9bc@DF978K51> From: "Alfred Harper" To: "ipfix-archive" Subject: Fwd: Thank you, we are ready to lend money regardless of Credit Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:33:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7CEE2.6D701060" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2962 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 ------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7CEE2.6D701060 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Your credit score doesn't matter to us! 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------=_NextPart_000_0012_01C7CEE2.6D701060-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 17:46:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDogp-0005vp-73; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:46:39 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDogn-0005vf-Q3 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:46:37 -0400 Received: from larry.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.34] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDogl-0005R0-K6 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:46:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BF118401; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:30 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (larry.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zJW-RKhiHc5l; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:30 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FF9183DE; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:30 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6PLkTsN025343; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:29 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6PLkSWx025341; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:28 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-325e.ietf69.org (dhcp-325e.ietf69.org [130.129.50.94]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:28 +1200 Message-ID: <20070726094628.y2fkpmxxcw00oc0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:28 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: stbryant@cisco.com Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Stewart: >> re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. >> > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new > LC comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process > you cannot be sure what you will get out. > > Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second > draft that explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new > transport mode. We considered doing that, it's certainly not an approach to be taken lightly. Consensus at the meeting was that we're blocked waiting for the PSAMP Info draft, which will probably take a fair while yet. The plan is to limit changes to *only* those addressed in Brian Trammell's "SCTP change" draft, which we expect to minimise the chance of new blocks appearing. And last, since the Protocol documents is sitting in the RFC Editor queue - i.e. it hasn't been published yet - we have that (rare) chance to fix it in the original RFC, rather than forcing everyone to refer to a 'changes' RFC as well as a Protocol RFC. Cheers, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 17:46:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDogp-0005vp-73; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:46:39 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDogn-0005vf-Q3 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:46:37 -0400 Received: from larry.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.34] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDogl-0005R0-K6 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:46:37 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94BF118401; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:30 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (larry.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zJW-RKhiHc5l; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:30 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79FF9183DE; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:30 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6PLkTsN025343; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:29 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6PLkSWx025341; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:28 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-325e.ietf69.org (dhcp-325e.ietf69.org [130.129.50.94]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:28 +1200 Message-ID: <20070726094628.y2fkpmxxcw00oc0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:46:28 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: stbryant@cisco.com Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Stewart: >> re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. >> > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new > LC comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process > you cannot be sure what you will get out. > > Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second > draft that explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new > transport mode. We considered doing that, it's certainly not an approach to be taken lightly. Consensus at the meeting was that we're blocked waiting for the PSAMP Info draft, which will probably take a fair while yet. The plan is to limit changes to *only* those addressed in Brian Trammell's "SCTP change" draft, which we expect to minimise the chance of new blocks appearing. And last, since the Protocol documents is sitting in the RFC Editor queue - i.e. it hasn't been published yet - we have that (rare) chance to fix it in the original RFC, rather than forcing everyone to refer to a 'changes' RFC as well as a Protocol RFC. Cheers, Nevil ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 17:54:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDooD-0003ca-SZ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDooD-0003bI-77 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDooC-0002Kq-ND for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:54:07 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX: draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:53:49 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX: draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Thread-Index: AcfO6iBZlo4oE8alTXiupw5nPp89cgAGSApw References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: , "Nevil Brownlee" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2007 21:54:07.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[52DCE470:01C7CF06] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Bryan, As discussed after the meeting yesterday, I consider that the need of = tagging the datatypes (tables of sections '3.2. = informationElementSemanticType' and '3.3 = informationElementStorageType') must be addressed through the adding of = new information elements in the IPFIX Info model IANA registry. Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 25 juillet 2007 20:32 > =C0=A0: Nevil Brownlee > Cc=A0: ipfix@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX >=20 > Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > > > Hi all: > > > > > > > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > > Procedure: Call protocol document back from RFC EDitor Queue. > > make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > > and consequent changes to Implementation Guidelines and > > Testing drafts. > > re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. > > > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new > LC comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process > you cannot be sure what you will get out. >=20 > Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second > draft that explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new > transport mode. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Stewart >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 17:54:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDooD-0003ca-SZ; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDooD-0003bI-77 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDooC-0002Kq-ND for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 17:54:17 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:54:07 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX: draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:53:49 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX: draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt Thread-Index: AcfO6iBZlo4oE8alTXiupw5nPp89cgAGSApw References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: , "Nevil Brownlee" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2007 21:54:07.0031 (UTC) FILETIME=[52DCE470:01C7CF06] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Bryan, As discussed after the meeting yesterday, I consider that the need of = tagging the datatypes (tables of sections '3.2. = informationElementSemanticType' and '3.3 = informationElementStorageType') must be addressed through the adding of = new information elements in the IPFIX Info model IANA registry. Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: mercredi 25 juillet 2007 20:32 > =C0=A0: Nevil Brownlee > Cc=A0: ipfix@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items for IPFIX >=20 > Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > > > Hi all: > > > > > > > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > > Procedure: Call protocol document back from RFC EDitor Queue. > > make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > > and consequent changes to Implementation Guidelines and > > Testing drafts. > > re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. > > > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new > LC comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process > you cannot be sure what you will get out. >=20 > Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second > draft that explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new > transport mode. >=20 >=20 >=20 > Stewart >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 18:08:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDp1o-0004oY-UD; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:08:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDp1n-0004oL-O0 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:08:19 -0400 Received: from moe.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.35] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDp1m-0005q1-RC for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:08:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2828480441 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (moe.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5eINvQQij0r for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDBA48043D for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6PM8GNU031580 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6PM8GaX031579 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-325e.ietf69.org (dhcp-325e.ietf69.org [130.129.50.94]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 Message-ID: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Subject: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi again all: Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier posting. Cheers, Nevil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . IPFIX: Proposal for new work Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the questionnaire form below!! 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. Procedure: - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), issue a revised draft - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last Call - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made in the next revisions of both these drafts 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX Configuration. Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to specify what operations make sense for an IE. Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. For items 0 to 4 above, we'd like to make a list of several committed reviewers for each. Please help me with this by filling in and returning the form below IPFIX work item Reviewers ------------------------- Name: _____________________________ I will review documents for the following items: (put a 'y' in the boxes on the next line) 0 [ ], 1 [ ], 2 [ ], 3 [ ], 4 [ ] Email this form to nevil@auckland.ac.nz -- thankyou ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) Needed by (at least) two large operators. Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. Would this be better as an individual draft? 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. ======================================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 18:08:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDp1o-0004oY-UD; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:08:20 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDp1n-0004oL-O0 for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:08:19 -0400 Received: from moe.its.auckland.ac.nz ([130.216.12.35] helo=mailhost.auckland.ac.nz) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDp1m-0005q1-RC for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:08:19 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2828480441 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 (NZST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new at mailhost.auckland.ac.nz Received: from mailhost.auckland.ac.nz ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (moe.its.auckland.ac.nz [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id j5eINvQQij0r for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz [130.216.191.146]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mailhost.auckland.ac.nz (Postfix) with ESMTP id CEDBA48043D for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 (NZST) Received: from motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1) with ESMTP id l6PM8GNU031580 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 Received: (from apache@localhost) by motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit) id l6PM8GaX031579 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: motoko.itss.auckland.ac.nz: apache set sender to nevil@auckland.ac.nz using -f Received: from dhcp-325e.ietf69.org (dhcp-325e.ietf69.org [130.129.50.94]) by webmail.auckland.ac.nz (Horde MIME library) with HTTP; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 Message-ID: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 From: Nevil Brownlee To: ipfix@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format="flowed" Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: Internet Messaging Program (IMP) H3 (4.0.4) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Subject: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi again all: Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier posting. Cheers, Nevil . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . IPFIX: Proposal for new work Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the questionnaire form below!! 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. Procedure: - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), issue a revised draft - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last Call - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made in the next revisions of both these drafts 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX Configuration. Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to specify what operations make sense for an IE. Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. For items 0 to 4 above, we'd like to make a list of several committed reviewers for each. Please help me with this by filling in and returning the form below IPFIX work item Reviewers ------------------------- Name: _____________________________ I will review documents for the following items: (put a 'y' in the boxes on the next line) 0 [ ], 1 [ ], 2 [ ], 3 [ ], 4 [ ] Email this form to nevil@auckland.ac.nz -- thankyou ! ----------------------------------------------------------------------- 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) Needed by (at least) two large operators. Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. Would this be better as an individual draft? 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. ======================================================================= ----------------------------------------------------------------------- Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand ----------------------------------------------------------------------- This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 18:39:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDpVu-0001R4-2q; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDpVs-0001Qz-NE for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:24 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDpVq-0006Ls-3e for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:24 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 00:39:20 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAOJtp0aQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,581,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149008204:sNHT69602738" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6PMdK9w008250; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:39:20 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6PMdFkt014054; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:39:19 GMT Received: from [10.82.224.137] (rtp-vpn1-137.cisco.com [10.82.224.137]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08530; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:39:12 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:39:11 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi , ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=63086; t=1185403160; x=1186267160; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=0TCkKYFNZQbrrRBxcgebznpYwSyCZIOKvfeGydwCJqA=; b=d6C4t2p5JFSMKC0WC2mOsisjg/FtiI5YnMA1fjDS2Z/9s65QwDSxtL9ykeRcUTzJ2u8FPgA8 OQ/q0Z06s+0+uge6ZfF0ZxBZIxtulblXgfZl9XUduQCMUJaMC2kQckde; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: e260d807a1c823f4aad7720bec8178b4 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Please see my comments inline. > IPFIX Working Group A. Kobayashi > Internet-Draft K. Ishibashi > Intended status: Informational T. Kondoh > Expires: December 25, 2007 NTT PF Lab. > D. Matsubara > Hitachi > June 23, 2007 > > > Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators > draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt > > Status of this Memo > > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > Drafts. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > This Internet-Draft will expire on December 25, 2007. > > Copyright Notice > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 1] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Abstract > > An IPFIX Mediator is an intermediate node between IPFIX devices and "devices" -> "Exporting Processes" > traffic collectors. This node acts as an IPFIX proxy, IPFIX "traffic collectors" -> "IPFIX Collecting Processes". "This node" -> "A mediator" > firewall, and IPFIX concentrator. An IPFIX Mediator mediates the > IPFIX protocol using several functions. That enables the traffic > monitoring system to become a high-capacity system and accommodate a > variety of traffic monitoring methods. This document describes each > function that is provided by IPFIX Mediators and the method of > handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this > describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. It's unclear what this last line means. > > > Table of Contents > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 > 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > 3. Internal Components Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 3.1. Collecting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 3.2. Metering Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 3.2.1. Selection Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 3.2.3. Modification Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 3.3. Exporting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 3.4. Storing Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.1. Export Time Issue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.3. Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.4. Transport Session Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > 4.5. Option Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 > 7. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 > 8. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 > 9. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > 9.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > 9.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 28 > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 2] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 1. Introduction > > Several problems regarding traffic monitoring have occurred in > several networks, as follows. Can you cite some references for this? > > o Scalability of collector on large-scale networks > > As the sizes of networks become larger, the number of Flow Records > becomes greater. Large numbers of Flow Records have been > burdening management networks and the collecting process. > Maintaining scalability is difficult as a particular network > grows. Generally, network operations need to monitor overall > wide-scale traffic behavior and investigate detailed traffic > information when traffic incidents happen. Meeting these > requirements seems to be difficult for a single collector node > because of large numbers of Flow Records. > > o Handling multifaceted network environment > > On the other hand, networks such as IPv4, IPv6, and VPN on MPLS > have recently become more multifaceted. These sorts of Flow What do you mean by "multifaceted"? > Records need to be analyzed separately from a different > perspective. However, handling them separately without improving > the capability of the Collector is difficult. > > o Exchanging traffic information between different networks > > Traffic information is considered to be necessary for ISP network > providers as well as each customer. To that end, the network > provider needs to export specified Flow Records while avoiding > privacy violations. In addition, exchanging traffic information > between the associated networks could be necessary when traffic > incidents happen. In that case, the Flow Records should be > checked according to the service provider's policy before > exporting. Therefore, Flow Records exported from Exporter > directly without modification can not be fed each customer or "can not be fed *to* each customer" > associated network operators without modification. > > IPFIX Mediators enable us to overcome these problems by preprocessing > Flow Records. By defining IPFIX Mediators, we can take increasing > advantage of an extensive template format, and handle Flow Records in > accordance with our preference. This document describes some > solutions using IPFIX Mediators that solve these problems and > components that are needed in the internal process. > > The IPFIX Mediator, which is located between one or more Exporting > Processes and one or more Collecting Processes, has a main function > for handling Flow Records. That function stores original Flow > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 3] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Records and mediates them. In addition, renewed Flow Records are It's worth defining what mediation is. Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? > generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic > analyzer in accordance with flow content. Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise Specific elements? > The internal model of a Mediator is composed of Collecting Processes, > Metering Processes, and Exporting Processes. IPFIX Mediator acts as > a Collector by receiving Flow Records, and it acts as an Exporter by > sending Flow Records. This dual-role architecture enables cascading > Mediators and building a combination of several solutions. > > This document describes a model of a solution scenario by using IPFIX > Mediator and its key component. > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL","SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 4] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 2. Terminology > > The definitions of basic IPFIX and PSAMP terms are identical with > those in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework], [RFC3917], > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info], and > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture]. Other than the above terminology, the > following terminology related to IPFIX Mediator is used in this > document. Therefore, the terms defined in the IPFIX terminology are > capitalized in this document. > > IPFIX Mediator > > An IPFIX Mediator hosts at least one pair of Exporting Process and > Collecting Process. An IPFIX Mediator may have the Metering "at least one Exporting Process and one Collecting Process". > Process and Storing Process as optional. An IPFIX Proxy, an IPFIX "may optionally have Metering Processes and Storing Processes". > Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX > Mediators. This last line is unclear. > > Original Exporter > > An Original Exporter hosts Observation Points where IP packets can > be observed. > > IPFIX Proxy > > An IPFIX Proxy acts as a proxy for Original Exporter, which hosts "Exporters" > Observation Points. An IPFIX Proxy may receive Flow Records from > one or multiple Exporting Processes, and send them to one or > multiple Collecting Processes. An IPFIX Proxy does not send the > information about an Original Exporter to the Collector to act as > an Original Exporter. This last line is unclear. > > IPFIX Firewall > > An IPFIX Firewall exports the Flow Records to a different network > domain at the edge of the self-network domain. From the > Collector's point of view, an IPFIX Firewall acts as an Original > Exporter, just like an IPFIX Proxy. In addition, an IPFIX > Firewall reviews whether received Flow Records are passed forward > to the Collector to hide the network topology or privacy > information. Does it block records, or modify them? eg, does it anonymise them? > > Metering Process > > The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators can be considered the > partial Metering Process separated from the Metering Process in > the Original Exporter. The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators > consists of a set of subprocesses that includes the Selection > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 5] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Process, the Aggregation Process and the Modification Process. > The Metering Process generates the final Flow Records that should > be exported. > > Selection Process > > The Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator is similar to that of > PSAMP Devices, which is described in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework]. > However, the Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator differs from > the following functions. The Selection Process in PSAMP Devices > has two types of selection functions: Filtering and Sampling. In > addition, the filtering function has two types of filtering > methods: field-match filtering and hash-based selection. The > Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator has only the field-match > filtering functions. This filtering function selects Flow Records > based on Flow Record content. The Selection Process is one of the > subprocesses in the Metering Process. > > Aggregation Process > > The Aggregation Process creates aggregated Flow Records from > inputted Flow Records, in accordance with aggregation rules that > are described in [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. The > Aggregation Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering > Process. > > Modification Process > > The Modification Process carries out the addition, deletion, and > modification of the Information Elements included in inputted Flow > Records. The Modification Process adds Information Elements like > derived packet properties that canot be extracted in the Original > Exporter. Information Elements related to derived packet > properties are described in [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info]. In addition, > the Modification Process modifies the values of the specific > Information Element. For example, the modification of values is "the values of specific Information Elements" > like anonymizing some Information Elements to avoid violating > privacy. The Modification Process deletes some Information > Elements included in inputted Flow Records. The Modification > Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering Process. - and presumably this is a key part of a firewall? > > Storing Process > > The Storing Process selects specified Information Elements > according to the storing rules, and then stores inputted Flow > Records in a storage system such as a database or flat-file > system. Information Elements are specified in storing rules. In > addition, the Observation Domain ID and Export Time in the header > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 6] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > of IPFIX messages are specified in the storing rules. How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? > > Distribute Function > > The Distribute Function distributes final Flow Records based on > the Flow content. The final Flow Records are handled by the > Exporting Process to export them to Collector. Each classified > Flow Record is exported to each Collector. To all collectors, or to a subset? > > Observation Domain ID > > An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and > Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX > header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of > Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does > not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If > inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the > Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the mediation device. > Transport Session Information > > In SCTP, the Transport Session Information is the SCTP > association. In TCP and UDP, the Transport Session Information > corresponds to a 5 tuple {exporter IP address, collector IP > address, exporter transport port, collector transport port, > transport protocol}. In IPFIX Mediator, the Collecting Process > manages this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 7] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 3. Internal Components Model > > The following figure indicates four components (Collecting Process, > Metering Process, Exporting Process, and Storing Process) within the > IPFIX Mediator that are referred to in [RFC3917]. The Metering > Process can have one or multiple subprocesses. These subprocesses > are the Selection Process, Aggregation Process, and Modification > Process that can be connected to each other in any sequence defined > by the user. The Metering Process and Storing Process are options. > > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > | IPFIX Mediator | > | .----------. .---------. | > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > | | |-->|sub |->|sub |->|sub |-->| | | > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | |IPFIX > --> | | ||#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > | | | |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > | | | '-------------------------------' | | | > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > | | | .-------. | | | > | | |->|Storing| | | | > | | | |Process| | | | > | | | '-------' | | | > | '----------' '---------' | > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. > Figure A: Key components within IPFIX Mediator. > > Each process is associated with a common identifier in the IPFIX > Mediator. This method is similar to PSAMP associations in > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech]. > > 3.1. Collecting Process > > This process receives Flow Records from the previous Exporter. The > instance of this process is created according to the IPFIX session. > This process has functions that are described in > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. The Collecting Process also forwards > received Flow Records with IPFIX header information and Transport > Session Information to multiple Metering Processes or Storing > Processes. In other words, Flow Records can be duplicated by > forwarding several Metering Processes. In addition, the Collecting Or Exporting Processes. > Process can directly forward Flow Records to Exporting Process. > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 8] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 3.2. Metering Process > > This process generates the renewed Flow Records from inputted Flow > Records with received IPFIX header information, such as "Export Time" > and "Observation Domain ID". This process hosts the several > subprocesses. The processing order of these functions, which could > be located by user definitions, would lead to different renewed Flow > Records. > > 3.2.1. Selection Process > > This process decides whether each Flow Record passes through to the > next process. Theprocess has a filtering function and selects Flow Typo, "Theprocess". > Records that are matched under given conditions. Prior to receiving > Flow Records, this process has instruction pattern data that are > defined by the user, which specifies how the Flow Records are treated > by this process. If the value of some Information Elements in the > Flow Record match the instruction pattern, this process selects Flow > Records with all fields and forwards these Flow Records to the next > process. For example, this process selects the Flow Records that are > included in the specified destination IP address. > > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not originally key fields? > > This process gathers Flow Records within a given time interval and > then distinguishes Flow Records that have common properties. If > values of a given key field are the same, that means these Flow > Records have common properties. This process merges Flow Records > that have a common property and creates an aggregated Flow Record. > Therefore, for example, aggregated Flow Records have an aggregation > counter that indicates the number of packets. These functions are > defined in accordance with the IPFIX aggregation rule in > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. > > The process has instructions that are user defined prior to receiving > Flow Records. The process indicates the Information Elements that > should become aggregated flow keys and other Information Elements > that should be kept or discarded. In addition, these instruction > rules include Information Elements that should be added to aggregated > Flow Records. The aggregated Flow Records may need to complement > information that is discarded during the aggregation process. They > help the Collector to analyze aggregated Flow Records. For example, > these Information Elements correspond to "averageActiveTime", > "synCount", and "flowCount" elements, as follows. > > o averageActiveTime > > This Information Element indicates average time in milliseconds of > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 9] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > difference between flow start time and end time of each flow > included in the aggregated flow. This Information Element is > created from the flow time stamp Information Elements. There are > "flowStartSeconds", "flowEndSeconds", "flowStartMilliSeconds", > "flowEndMilliSeconds", "flowStartSysUpTime", and > "flowEndSysUpTime". Moreover, "minimumActiveTime" and > "maxmumActiveTime" might be considered in addition to the element. > > o synCount > > This Information Elements the number of Flow Records that have > "tcpControlBits" which the SYN bit sets to 1 in an aggregated > flow. Using this element, we can determine the number of SYN > packets throughout the network. Moreover, "ackCount", "finCount", > "pshCount", "urgCount", and "rstCount" might be considered in > addition to this element. > > o flowCount > > This Information Element is the number of Flow Records included in > the aggregated flow. > > 3.2.3. Modification Process > > This process modifies the received Flow Records. This process can > add the new Information Elements, delete included Information > Elements, or modify the value of included Information Elements, as > follows. If this process modify the original template, it SHOULD > revise the received "flowKeyIndicator". > > Addition of new Information Element > > This function adds specified Information Elements into the > inputted Flow Records. The values of Information Elements are > extracted by searching some database based on the inputted content > of Flow Records. The added Information Elements and used > Information Elements are configured according to instructions by > the user to obtain the value. The method to obtain the value from > some Information Elements is outside the scope of this document. > > The IPFIX Mediator instead of the Original Exporter adds a derived > packet property parameter, which is useful for the traffic > monitoring technique. Doing that can compensate for the inability > of some Exporters to add a derived packet property parameter. > Hereby, the Collector does not need to recognize the difference > between implementations of routers from several vendors. For > example, the addition of "bgpNextHop{IPv4|IPv6}Address" and > "bgpCommunity" Information Elements is useful for making a traffic > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 10] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > matrix that covers the whole network domain. "bgpNextHop{IPv4| > IPv6}Address" can indicate the egress router of some network > domain. In addition, "bgpCommunity" can indicate the same group > of destination or source IP addresses. This value can be given by > looking for the BGP route database based on the destination or > source IP address. In addition, "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher", > which can not be extracted from the core router in MPLS networks, > indicates the customer's identification. We can monitor the > traffic behavior per customer by adding > "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher" to the Flow Records. This value can > be given by looking for the BGP route database based on the > "mplsTopLabelStackSection" and "mplsTopLabel{IPv4|IPv6}Address". > > Deletion of Information Element > > This function deletes specified Information Elements according to > the instructions that are configured by the user, which indicate > whether an Information Element should be removed. Hiding network > topology information and private information by using this > function is possible. > > In the case of exchanging Flow Records with different network > domains or customers, this function can avoid making a > vulnerability by deleting unnecessary Information Elements. By > deleting unnecessary Information Elements, this function can hide > the network topology and another customer's information. In > particular, "ipNextHopIP{v4|v6}Address", "bgpNextHopIP{v4| > v6}Address", and "bgp{Next|Prev}AdjacentAsNumber" correspond to > network topology information. In addition, MPLS-related > Information Elements, such as "mplsLabelStackSection", that are > useless for customers might be removed in the case of feeding the > Flow Records to VPN customers. > > Modification of the value of Information Element > > This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements > according to instructions configured by the user. > > For example, this function enables us to overwrite private > information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP > address and port number is sensitive private information. In the > case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these > Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. > In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information > Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can > anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which > Information Elements are anonymized. For example, > "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 11] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". > The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information Elements? > > 3.3. Exporting Process > > This process forwards Flow Records to the next Collector. These > processes manage the reporting template and make an IPFIX datagram. > > In addition, this process has the Distribution Function as an option. > If this function is enabled, this process distributes Flow Records > based on Flow content and then exports each classified Flow Record to > each Collector. > > The Exporting Process distributes Flow Records on the basis of the > peering AS, as shown in the following figure. Each classified Flow Peer AS in the incoming data, or on the Exporting side? Is BGP required? Surely this would/should be user configurable? > Record is exported to a dedicated Collector on the basis of the > Peering AS. > > +-------------------------------------------+ > | IPFIX Mediator .----------. | > | |Exporting | | > | |Process | | > | .----------. .---------. | | | PeerAS#100 > Flow -->|Collecting|->|Metering |----->/------------> Collector#A > Records |Process | |Process | | | | | PeerAS#200 > | '----------' '---------' | /------------> Collector#B > | | | | | PeerAS#300 > | | /------------> Collector#C > | | | | | PeerAS#400 > | | /------------> Collector#D > | | | | > | '----------' | > +-------------------------------------------+ > > Figure B: Exporting each classified Flow Record to dedicated Collector. > > 3.4. Storing Process > > This process selects specified Information Elements using the storing > instruction from the inputted Flow Records. Prior to receiving Flow What is the "storing instruction" ? > Records, this process has instructions that are configured by the > user, which indicate whether each field should be stored or > discarded. The field modifier indicates "keep" or "discard", which > is similar to the instruction of the aggregation process. The field > modifier specifies how these Information Elements are treated by the > process. This field modifier is applied to Information Elements > within Flow Record and IPFIX header, such as "Observation Domain ID" > and "Export time". This header information MAY be used when IPFIX > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 12] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > datagrams are made of past Flow Records. > > When another node retrieves past Flow Records, we can consider How does it retrieve them? > several specifications. One solution is that another node gets a > specified flat file from a Mediator and decodes that flat file by > itself. Other solutions are that another node sends out the query > command to the IPFIX Mediator through XML-RPC, SNMP, or NETCONF, and > then the IPFIX Mediator exports the specified past Flow Records. > This function is outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 13] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations > > This section describes IPFIX protocol considerations with regard to > IPFIX Mediator. > > 4.1. Export Time Issue > > If the Exporting Process writes the "Export Time" of the IPFIX > message when an IPFIX message leaves, an IPFIX Mediator needs to > compensate for the delta time Information Elements contained in each "the" -> "any" > Flow Record. An IPFIX Proxy SHOULD reuse the "Export Time" of "SHOULD" -> "MUST" > received IPFIX messages from the Original Exporter. > > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management > > To comply with the IPFIX protocol the Observation Domain ID value is > RECOMMENDED to be assigned uniquely per IPFIX Mediator. In addition, > Observation Domain ID SHOULD be 0 when IPFIX Mediator exports > aggregated Flow Records and cannot manage the specific Observation > Domain ID of the Original Exporter. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an > IPFIX datagram from a transport session to a transport session, IPFIX > Proxy does not need to overwrite the Observation Domain ID with > another value. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an IPFIX datagram from > multiple transport sessions to a single ransport session, IPFIX Proxy > needs to overwrite the Observation Domain ID. In that case, IPFIX > Proxy assigns the Observation Domain ID based on received Transport > Session Information and the original Observation Domain ID. The > renewed Observation Domain ID SHOULD be managed using the received > Transport Session Information and original Observation Domain ID. > This linkage information is available for overwriting the scope field > of the option template. > > 4.3. Template Management > > The template ID of a generated template SHOULD be unique on the basis "Template". Please be sure to capitalise IPFIX terminology! > of the Observation Domain ID assigned by an IPFIX Mediator. The > template ID needs to be unique on the basis of IPFIX Mediator when > the Observation Domain ID is 0. If the IPFIX Mediator overwrites the > received template ID to relay a received template or modified > template, the renewed template ID SHOULD be managed using received > Transport Session Information and received Observation Domain ID. > This linkage information is available for overwriting scope field of > an option template and template handling. If IPFIX Mediator receives > a "template withdraw message", it SHOULD modify this message to > indicate relevant templates, and send "template withdraw message". > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 14] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 4.4. Transport Session Management > > Each session of the Collecting Process and Exporting Process should > operate independently. Even if one session is reset, the status of > the other session is kept current. However, templates for resetting > collecting session SHOULD be withdrawn for the exporting session. > > 4.5. Option Template Management > > IPFIX Mediator MUST check whether the scope field is applicable, if > received Data Records associated Options templates are exported. If > an IPFIX Mediator rewrites the Observation Domain ID or template ID, > these values included in scope fields SHOULD be rewritten before > exporting. Instead of exporting the Options Template Records and > associated Data Records, Information Elements exported using the > Options template Record from the Original Exporter, such as sampling > rate or sampling method, could be merged in a Flow Record in an IPFIX > Mediator. In that case, IPFIX Mediator MUST modify the relevant > Template Record. Several sorts of received statistics Options > Template Records and associated Data Records could be exported in > different ways as other templates. In IPFIX Proxy, the Data Record > associated by statistics Options Template Records can be exported > after merging its counter. In addition, statistics Options Template > Records and associated Data Records can be exported by indicating the > source of the statistics data as a scope field instead of merging the > counter. This method is described in Section 6. The user policy > determines whether IPFIX Mediator and the above methods should export > Option Templates Records and associated Data Records. > > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information > > Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is Surely that's a loss of privacy? > useful to identify the Original Exporter. There are various methods > as follows. An IPFIX Mediator can directly merge Exporter > Information into Flow Records or use Options Templates described in > Section 6. If an IPFIX Mediator received fields related to the > Exporter information, IPFIX Mediator SHOULD NOT rewrite its own > previous Exporter information. The IPFIX Mediator can append its own > previous Exporter Information instead of rewriting. In the > Collecting Process, the order of the Exporter information means the > Original Exporter and the route of IPFIX Mediator. These methods > defined by user policy determine whether IPFIX Mediator should report > that information has been exported Some text seems to be missing here? > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 15] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators > > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation > > An IPFIX Mediator can aggregate Flow Records in the same manner as > that of IPFIX concentrator and reduce the number of Flow Records > received by a traffic collector. > > The following figure indicates a cascade connection of IPFIX > Mediators. If a Collector measures a traffic matrix to obtain > traffic demand, the Collector needs Flow Records of the whole network > domain, but does not need detailed Flow Records. In the first step, > a Mediator receives Flow Records from IPFIX Devices and then creates "a first level Mediator" > aggregated low-level Flow Records. For example, this step is prefix > mask aggregation. Next, the Mediator receives aggregated Flow "Next, a second level Mediator" > Records and aggregates them further. For example, the second step is > the aggregation of the BGP next-hop address and exporter address. > After this, the collector receives high-level aggregated Flow Records > and then stores them. This method enables step-by-step aggregation > of Flow Records without overloading a single node. > > .--------. .--------. > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | > |router#1|---->|Mediator|---. > | | |*1 | | > '--------' '--------' | .--------. .---------. > '--->|IPFIX | |Traffic | > .--------. .--------. .--->|Mediator|---->|Collector| > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | | |*2 | | | > |router#2|---->|Mediator|---' '--------' '---------' > | | |*1 | > '--------' '--------' > > Figure C: Flexible Aggregation with cascading IPFIX Mediators. > > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation > > When the network is used globally, the distances between PoPs become > longer, and the maintenance of a dedicated management network is very > expensive. Therefore, the huge number of Flow Records has burdened > the management networks of global ISPs. If we place Mediators at > each PoP, the number of Flow Records exported from each PoP can be > reduced. Mediators can minimize the number of Flow Records exported > to the Collector. If the Collector needs detailed information, it > can retrieve Flow Records from Mediators that store original Flow > Records. > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 16] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > A management network of a global ISP is shown in the following > figure. The Mediators are located at each PoP of the network, and > they collect Flow Records from routers in each PoP domain. The > Mediator reduces the number of Flow Records by aggregating or > filtering, so this system reduces the load of a management network. > > POP#Asia > .--------. > .--------. | .---------. > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----. > |router |---'----->|#1 | | > |#1 |-' '---------' | > '--------' | > | > POP#America | > .--------. | > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | '---->|Traffic | > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > |router |---'----->|#2 | .---->| | > |#4 |-' '---------' | '---------' > '--------' | > | > POP#Europe | > .--------. | > .--------. | .---------. | > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | | > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----' > |router |---'----->|#3 | > |#7 |-' '---------' > '--------' > > Figure D: Traffic monitoring architecture in global network. > > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records > > An IPFIX Mediator duplicates Flow Records to achieve redundant > storage or utilizes them for several purposes. The pair of > Collecting Process and Metering Processes is similar to the pair of > the Observation Point and Metering Process. The Collecting Process > duplicates Flow records by forwarding them to the multi-Metering > Process. > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 17] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Several departments in an ISP want to use the same traffic > information for each intended purpose. For example, the network > design department measures the traffic matrix to obtain traffic > demand, and the customer service division uses traffic information > for performing accounting services for each customer while the > network operation center uses traffic information for trouble > shooting analysis. That case is shown in the following figure. An > IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records to several Collectors that > have the appropriate aggregated granularity. In addition, when a NOC > conducts troubleshooting, past Flow Records from Mediators can be > retrieved. > > Measurement traffic matrix. > .--------. .---------. > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector| > | | | | |#1 | > '--------' | | '---------' > | | Using Accounting info. > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > |IPFIX | '---->|IPFIX |----' |Traffic | > |router#2|--------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > | | .---->| |----. |#2 | > '--------' | '---------' | '---------' > | | Using Trouble shooting. > .--------. | | .---------. > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector| > | | |#3 | > '--------' '---------' The bottom left router should be "router#3" > > Figure E: Duplication of Flow Records for several purposes. > > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records > > An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record "MAY distribute" > content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and > sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow > Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. It's unclear to me what this means. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 18] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > the privacy policy should be considered. In that case, IPFIX > Mediator hides private information about each customer. For example, > Mediator distributes traffic information based on RD (Route > Distinguisher), egress IF, peering AS number, or BGP next hop, which > identify the customer. In the following figure, the IPFIX Mediator > distributes Flow Records based on RD. The system securely allows > each customer to access only their own records. > > .--------. .---------. > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector|<===> Customer#A > | | | | |#1 | > '--------' | | '---------' > | RD=100:1 > | .---------. | > .--------. '---->|IPFIX |----' .---------. > |IPFIX | |Mediator | RD=100:2 |Traffic | > |router#2|--------->| |--------->|Collector|<===> Customer#B > | | | | |#2 | > '--------' .---->| |----. '---------' > | '---------' | > | RD=100:3 > .--------. | | .---------. > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector|<===> Customer#C > | | |#3 | > '--------' '---------' > > Figure F: Distribution of Flow Records for each customer. > > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow > > An IPFIX Mediator performs filtering based on Flow Record content. > If the filter conditions are set depending on the suspicious flow as > follows, the Collector receives the specified suspicious flow and > detects an anomalous flow by simply monitoring the traffic volume of > each suspicious flow. > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to "null" > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to the SYN > bit only and the packet counter is only 1. This will always happen for TCP flows of 1 or more packets. It might be suspicious if the count was still 1 after some time. > > o ICMP Flow Records whose length is too long. > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 19] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation > > This section describes Option Templates that are used by IPFIX > Mediators. > > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template > > Each IPFIX Mediator and final destination Collector needs to know the > Original Exporter and route of IPFIX Mediators. Therefore, each > IPFIX Mediator informs the next Collector about previous Exporter > information, which is the Exporter Information Option Template that > specified the Original Exporter and the route of the IPFIX Mediator. > The final destination Collector can recognize them by receiving this > template. This template is composed of the following Information > Elements. > > o exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > o collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > o exporterTransportPort > > o collectorTransportPort > > o collectorTransportProtocol > > o observationDomainId > > The Observation Domain ID of the Original Exporter or IPFIX Mediator > is identified by specifying exporter/collector Information Elements, > such as "collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address", "collectorTransportPort", > "collectorTransportProtocol", ,"exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address", > "exporterTransportPort", and "observationDomainId". The set of > "observationDomainId" and "templateId" or "observationDomainId" might > be used as a scope field. Not all Information Elements are > necessary. For example, the exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address is necessary > to inform the next Collector the Original Exporter which created Flow > Records. If the IPFIX Mediator receives this template, it SHOULD not > overwrite each field. The IPFIX Mediator appends its own previous > Exporter information onto received Data Records specified by the > Exporter Option Template and sends that information to the Collector. > In this manner, the route is maintained until the final destination > Collector. > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 20] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > Mediators. Each Mediator informs the next Collector about previous > Exporter information. > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > Figure G: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > Mediator#1 or Mediator#2 sends a Data Record specified by the > Exporter Option Template. The Data records are shown in Session#b or > Session#c, as follows. > > Session#b Data Record: > Field Count = 7 > Scope Count = 1 > templateId = XXX > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 10 > collectorTransportPort = 20 > observationDomainId = 10 Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? P. > > Session#c Data Record: > Field Count = 13 > Scope Count = 1 > templateId = XXX > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 10 > collectorTransportPort = 20 > observationDomainId = 10 > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 30 > collectorTransportPort = 40 > observationDomainId = 0 > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 21] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field > > An IPFIX Mediator needs to send forward a Options Template Records > and associated Data Records from the Original Exporter. However, > IPFIX Mediator can not export an original Option Template Records and > associated Data Records without modification because changing a > session from an Exporting Process to a Collecting Process causes the > scope fields to become a useless value. When an IPFIX Mediator > relays the Options Template Records that included Observation Domain > ID as a scope field and associated Data Records, an IPFIX Mediator > uses the Exporter Information Option Template. The Options Template > Records that were created from an Original Exporter can use the > entire fields of the Exporter Information Option template as multiple > scope fields. The Options Template Records that were created from > anIPFIX Mediator can uses the some fields of the Exporter Information > Option template as multiple scope fields. An IPFIX Mediator needs to > modify the associated Data Records according to the modified Options > Template Record. However, if each node uses another field except for > the Observation Domain ID as the scope, the scope field should be > considered on a case-by-case basis. > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > Mediators. Router#1 and Mediator#1 export the Metering Process > Statistics Option Template. > > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > Figure H: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > Mediator#2 exports each Option Template and its Data Record with a > suitable scope. > > Session#c Metering Process Statistics Data Records from the Original > Exporter: > Field Count = 15 > Scope Count = 12 > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 10 > collectorTransportPort = 20 > observationDomainId = 10 > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 22] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 30 > collectorTransportPort = 40 > observationDomainId = 0 > exportedMessageTotalCount > exportedFlowTotalCount > exportedOctetTotalCount > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 23] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 7. Security Considerations > > The IPFIX concentrator uses the IPFIX protocol. Security > considerations about flow information are described in > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 24] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 8. IANA Considerations > > This document has no actions for IANA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 25] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 9. References > > 9.1. Normative References > > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. > > 9.2. Informative References > > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation] > Dressler, F., Sommer, C., and G. Munz, "IPFIX > Aggregation", draft-dressler-ipfix-aggregation-03.txt > (work in progress) , June 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture] > Sadasivan, G., Brownlee, N., Claise, B., and J. Quittek, > "Architecture for IP Flow Information Export", > draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-12.txt(work in progress) , > September 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info] > Quittek, J., Bryant, S., Claise, B., and J. Meyer, > "Information Model for IP Flow Information Export", > draft-ietf-ipfix-info-13.txt(work in progress) , > June 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] > Claise, B., "IPFIX Protocol Specification", > draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-23 (work in progress) , > October 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework] > Duffield, N., "A Framework for Packet Selection and > Reporting", draft-ietf-psamp-framework-10.txt , > January 2005. > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech] > Zseby, T., Molina, M., Duffield, N., Niccolini, S., and F. > Raspall, "Sampling and Filtering Techniques for IP Packet > Selection", draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-07.txt , > July 2005. > > [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. Zander, > "Requirements for IP Flow Information Export(IPFIX)", > October 2004. > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 26] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Authors' Addresses > > Atsushi Kobayashi > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > Japan > > Phone: +81-422-59-3978 > Email: akoba@nttv6.net > > > Keisuke Ishibashi > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > Japan > > Phone: +81-422-59-3407 > Email: ishibashi.keisuke@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > Kondoh Tsuyoshi > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > Japan > > Phone: +81-422-59-2419 > Email: kondoh.tsuyoshi@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > Daisuke Matsubara > Hitachi, Ltd., Central Reseach Laboratory > 1-280 Higashi-koigakubo > Kokubunji-shi, Tokyo 185-8601 > Japan > > Phone: +81-42-323-1111 > Email: d-matuba@crl.hitachi.co.jp > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 27] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Full Copyright Statement > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > retain all their rights. > > This document and the information contained herein are provided on an > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF > THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED > WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > > Intellectual Property > > The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any > Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to > pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in > this document or the extent to which any license under such rights > might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has > made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information > on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be > found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any > assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an > attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of > such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this > specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at > http://www.ietf.org/ipr. > > The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any > copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary > rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement > this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at > ietf-ipr@ietf.org. > > > Acknowledgment > > Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF > Administrative Support Activity (IASA). > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 28] > -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 18:39:26 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDpVu-0001R4-2q; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDpVs-0001Qz-NE for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:24 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDpVq-0006Ls-3e for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 18:39:24 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 00:39:20 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAOJtp0aQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,581,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149008204:sNHT69602738" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6PMdK9w008250; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 00:39:20 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6PMdFkt014054; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 22:39:19 GMT Received: from [10.82.224.137] (rtp-vpn1-137.cisco.com [10.82.224.137]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA08530; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:39:12 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:39:11 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi , ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=63086; t=1185403160; x=1186267160; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=0TCkKYFNZQbrrRBxcgebznpYwSyCZIOKvfeGydwCJqA=; b=d6C4t2p5JFSMKC0WC2mOsisjg/FtiI5YnMA1fjDS2Z/9s65QwDSxtL9ykeRcUTzJ2u8FPgA8 OQ/q0Z06s+0+uge6ZfF0ZxBZIxtulblXgfZl9XUduQCMUJaMC2kQckde; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: e260d807a1c823f4aad7720bec8178b4 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Please see my comments inline. > IPFIX Working Group A. Kobayashi > Internet-Draft K. Ishibashi > Intended status: Informational T. Kondoh > Expires: December 25, 2007 NTT PF Lab. > D. Matsubara > Hitachi > June 23, 2007 > > > Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators > draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt > > Status of this Memo > > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > Drafts. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > This Internet-Draft will expire on December 25, 2007. > > Copyright Notice > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 1] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Abstract > > An IPFIX Mediator is an intermediate node between IPFIX devices and "devices" -> "Exporting Processes" > traffic collectors. This node acts as an IPFIX proxy, IPFIX "traffic collectors" -> "IPFIX Collecting Processes". "This node" -> "A mediator" > firewall, and IPFIX concentrator. An IPFIX Mediator mediates the > IPFIX protocol using several functions. That enables the traffic > monitoring system to become a high-capacity system and accommodate a > variety of traffic monitoring methods. This document describes each > function that is provided by IPFIX Mediators and the method of > handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this > describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. It's unclear what this last line means. > > > Table of Contents > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 > 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > 3. Internal Components Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 3.1. Collecting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 3.2. Metering Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 3.2.1. Selection Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 3.2.3. Modification Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 3.3. Exporting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 3.4. Storing Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.1. Export Time Issue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.3. Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 4.4. Transport Session Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > 4.5. Option Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 > 7. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 > 8. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 > 9. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > 9.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > 9.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 28 > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 2] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 1. Introduction > > Several problems regarding traffic monitoring have occurred in > several networks, as follows. Can you cite some references for this? > > o Scalability of collector on large-scale networks > > As the sizes of networks become larger, the number of Flow Records > becomes greater. Large numbers of Flow Records have been > burdening management networks and the collecting process. > Maintaining scalability is difficult as a particular network > grows. Generally, network operations need to monitor overall > wide-scale traffic behavior and investigate detailed traffic > information when traffic incidents happen. Meeting these > requirements seems to be difficult for a single collector node > because of large numbers of Flow Records. > > o Handling multifaceted network environment > > On the other hand, networks such as IPv4, IPv6, and VPN on MPLS > have recently become more multifaceted. These sorts of Flow What do you mean by "multifaceted"? > Records need to be analyzed separately from a different > perspective. However, handling them separately without improving > the capability of the Collector is difficult. > > o Exchanging traffic information between different networks > > Traffic information is considered to be necessary for ISP network > providers as well as each customer. To that end, the network > provider needs to export specified Flow Records while avoiding > privacy violations. In addition, exchanging traffic information > between the associated networks could be necessary when traffic > incidents happen. In that case, the Flow Records should be > checked according to the service provider's policy before > exporting. Therefore, Flow Records exported from Exporter > directly without modification can not be fed each customer or "can not be fed *to* each customer" > associated network operators without modification. > > IPFIX Mediators enable us to overcome these problems by preprocessing > Flow Records. By defining IPFIX Mediators, we can take increasing > advantage of an extensive template format, and handle Flow Records in > accordance with our preference. This document describes some > solutions using IPFIX Mediators that solve these problems and > components that are needed in the internal process. > > The IPFIX Mediator, which is located between one or more Exporting > Processes and one or more Collecting Processes, has a main function > for handling Flow Records. That function stores original Flow > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 3] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Records and mediates them. In addition, renewed Flow Records are It's worth defining what mediation is. Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? > generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic > analyzer in accordance with flow content. Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise Specific elements? > The internal model of a Mediator is composed of Collecting Processes, > Metering Processes, and Exporting Processes. IPFIX Mediator acts as > a Collector by receiving Flow Records, and it acts as an Exporter by > sending Flow Records. This dual-role architecture enables cascading > Mediators and building a combination of several solutions. > > This document describes a model of a solution scenario by using IPFIX > Mediator and its key component. > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL","SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 4] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 2. Terminology > > The definitions of basic IPFIX and PSAMP terms are identical with > those in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework], [RFC3917], > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info], and > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture]. Other than the above terminology, the > following terminology related to IPFIX Mediator is used in this > document. Therefore, the terms defined in the IPFIX terminology are > capitalized in this document. > > IPFIX Mediator > > An IPFIX Mediator hosts at least one pair of Exporting Process and > Collecting Process. An IPFIX Mediator may have the Metering "at least one Exporting Process and one Collecting Process". > Process and Storing Process as optional. An IPFIX Proxy, an IPFIX "may optionally have Metering Processes and Storing Processes". > Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX > Mediators. This last line is unclear. > > Original Exporter > > An Original Exporter hosts Observation Points where IP packets can > be observed. > > IPFIX Proxy > > An IPFIX Proxy acts as a proxy for Original Exporter, which hosts "Exporters" > Observation Points. An IPFIX Proxy may receive Flow Records from > one or multiple Exporting Processes, and send them to one or > multiple Collecting Processes. An IPFIX Proxy does not send the > information about an Original Exporter to the Collector to act as > an Original Exporter. This last line is unclear. > > IPFIX Firewall > > An IPFIX Firewall exports the Flow Records to a different network > domain at the edge of the self-network domain. From the > Collector's point of view, an IPFIX Firewall acts as an Original > Exporter, just like an IPFIX Proxy. In addition, an IPFIX > Firewall reviews whether received Flow Records are passed forward > to the Collector to hide the network topology or privacy > information. Does it block records, or modify them? eg, does it anonymise them? > > Metering Process > > The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators can be considered the > partial Metering Process separated from the Metering Process in > the Original Exporter. The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators > consists of a set of subprocesses that includes the Selection > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 5] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Process, the Aggregation Process and the Modification Process. > The Metering Process generates the final Flow Records that should > be exported. > > Selection Process > > The Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator is similar to that of > PSAMP Devices, which is described in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework]. > However, the Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator differs from > the following functions. The Selection Process in PSAMP Devices > has two types of selection functions: Filtering and Sampling. In > addition, the filtering function has two types of filtering > methods: field-match filtering and hash-based selection. The > Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator has only the field-match > filtering functions. This filtering function selects Flow Records > based on Flow Record content. The Selection Process is one of the > subprocesses in the Metering Process. > > Aggregation Process > > The Aggregation Process creates aggregated Flow Records from > inputted Flow Records, in accordance with aggregation rules that > are described in [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. The > Aggregation Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering > Process. > > Modification Process > > The Modification Process carries out the addition, deletion, and > modification of the Information Elements included in inputted Flow > Records. The Modification Process adds Information Elements like > derived packet properties that canot be extracted in the Original > Exporter. Information Elements related to derived packet > properties are described in [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info]. In addition, > the Modification Process modifies the values of the specific > Information Element. For example, the modification of values is "the values of specific Information Elements" > like anonymizing some Information Elements to avoid violating > privacy. The Modification Process deletes some Information > Elements included in inputted Flow Records. The Modification > Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering Process. - and presumably this is a key part of a firewall? > > Storing Process > > The Storing Process selects specified Information Elements > according to the storing rules, and then stores inputted Flow > Records in a storage system such as a database or flat-file > system. Information Elements are specified in storing rules. In > addition, the Observation Domain ID and Export Time in the header > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 6] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > of IPFIX messages are specified in the storing rules. How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? > > Distribute Function > > The Distribute Function distributes final Flow Records based on > the Flow content. The final Flow Records are handled by the > Exporting Process to export them to Collector. Each classified > Flow Record is exported to each Collector. To all collectors, or to a subset? > > Observation Domain ID > > An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and > Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX > header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of > Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does > not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If > inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the > Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the mediation device. > Transport Session Information > > In SCTP, the Transport Session Information is the SCTP > association. In TCP and UDP, the Transport Session Information > corresponds to a 5 tuple {exporter IP address, collector IP > address, exporter transport port, collector transport port, > transport protocol}. In IPFIX Mediator, the Collecting Process > manages this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 7] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 3. Internal Components Model > > The following figure indicates four components (Collecting Process, > Metering Process, Exporting Process, and Storing Process) within the > IPFIX Mediator that are referred to in [RFC3917]. The Metering > Process can have one or multiple subprocesses. These subprocesses > are the Selection Process, Aggregation Process, and Modification > Process that can be connected to each other in any sequence defined > by the user. The Metering Process and Storing Process are options. > > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > | IPFIX Mediator | > | .----------. .---------. | > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > | | |-->|sub |->|sub |->|sub |-->| | | > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | |IPFIX > --> | | ||#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > | | | |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > | | | '-------------------------------' | | | > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > | | | .-------. | | | > | | |->|Storing| | | | > | | | |Process| | | | > | | | '-------' | | | > | '----------' '---------' | > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. > Figure A: Key components within IPFIX Mediator. > > Each process is associated with a common identifier in the IPFIX > Mediator. This method is similar to PSAMP associations in > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech]. > > 3.1. Collecting Process > > This process receives Flow Records from the previous Exporter. The > instance of this process is created according to the IPFIX session. > This process has functions that are described in > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. The Collecting Process also forwards > received Flow Records with IPFIX header information and Transport > Session Information to multiple Metering Processes or Storing > Processes. In other words, Flow Records can be duplicated by > forwarding several Metering Processes. In addition, the Collecting Or Exporting Processes. > Process can directly forward Flow Records to Exporting Process. > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 8] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 3.2. Metering Process > > This process generates the renewed Flow Records from inputted Flow > Records with received IPFIX header information, such as "Export Time" > and "Observation Domain ID". This process hosts the several > subprocesses. The processing order of these functions, which could > be located by user definitions, would lead to different renewed Flow > Records. > > 3.2.1. Selection Process > > This process decides whether each Flow Record passes through to the > next process. Theprocess has a filtering function and selects Flow Typo, "Theprocess". > Records that are matched under given conditions. Prior to receiving > Flow Records, this process has instruction pattern data that are > defined by the user, which specifies how the Flow Records are treated > by this process. If the value of some Information Elements in the > Flow Record match the instruction pattern, this process selects Flow > Records with all fields and forwards these Flow Records to the next > process. For example, this process selects the Flow Records that are > included in the specified destination IP address. > > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not originally key fields? > > This process gathers Flow Records within a given time interval and > then distinguishes Flow Records that have common properties. If > values of a given key field are the same, that means these Flow > Records have common properties. This process merges Flow Records > that have a common property and creates an aggregated Flow Record. > Therefore, for example, aggregated Flow Records have an aggregation > counter that indicates the number of packets. These functions are > defined in accordance with the IPFIX aggregation rule in > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. > > The process has instructions that are user defined prior to receiving > Flow Records. The process indicates the Information Elements that > should become aggregated flow keys and other Information Elements > that should be kept or discarded. In addition, these instruction > rules include Information Elements that should be added to aggregated > Flow Records. The aggregated Flow Records may need to complement > information that is discarded during the aggregation process. They > help the Collector to analyze aggregated Flow Records. For example, > these Information Elements correspond to "averageActiveTime", > "synCount", and "flowCount" elements, as follows. > > o averageActiveTime > > This Information Element indicates average time in milliseconds of > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 9] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > difference between flow start time and end time of each flow > included in the aggregated flow. This Information Element is > created from the flow time stamp Information Elements. There are > "flowStartSeconds", "flowEndSeconds", "flowStartMilliSeconds", > "flowEndMilliSeconds", "flowStartSysUpTime", and > "flowEndSysUpTime". Moreover, "minimumActiveTime" and > "maxmumActiveTime" might be considered in addition to the element. > > o synCount > > This Information Elements the number of Flow Records that have > "tcpControlBits" which the SYN bit sets to 1 in an aggregated > flow. Using this element, we can determine the number of SYN > packets throughout the network. Moreover, "ackCount", "finCount", > "pshCount", "urgCount", and "rstCount" might be considered in > addition to this element. > > o flowCount > > This Information Element is the number of Flow Records included in > the aggregated flow. > > 3.2.3. Modification Process > > This process modifies the received Flow Records. This process can > add the new Information Elements, delete included Information > Elements, or modify the value of included Information Elements, as > follows. If this process modify the original template, it SHOULD > revise the received "flowKeyIndicator". > > Addition of new Information Element > > This function adds specified Information Elements into the > inputted Flow Records. The values of Information Elements are > extracted by searching some database based on the inputted content > of Flow Records. The added Information Elements and used > Information Elements are configured according to instructions by > the user to obtain the value. The method to obtain the value from > some Information Elements is outside the scope of this document. > > The IPFIX Mediator instead of the Original Exporter adds a derived > packet property parameter, which is useful for the traffic > monitoring technique. Doing that can compensate for the inability > of some Exporters to add a derived packet property parameter. > Hereby, the Collector does not need to recognize the difference > between implementations of routers from several vendors. For > example, the addition of "bgpNextHop{IPv4|IPv6}Address" and > "bgpCommunity" Information Elements is useful for making a traffic > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 10] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > matrix that covers the whole network domain. "bgpNextHop{IPv4| > IPv6}Address" can indicate the egress router of some network > domain. In addition, "bgpCommunity" can indicate the same group > of destination or source IP addresses. This value can be given by > looking for the BGP route database based on the destination or > source IP address. In addition, "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher", > which can not be extracted from the core router in MPLS networks, > indicates the customer's identification. We can monitor the > traffic behavior per customer by adding > "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher" to the Flow Records. This value can > be given by looking for the BGP route database based on the > "mplsTopLabelStackSection" and "mplsTopLabel{IPv4|IPv6}Address". > > Deletion of Information Element > > This function deletes specified Information Elements according to > the instructions that are configured by the user, which indicate > whether an Information Element should be removed. Hiding network > topology information and private information by using this > function is possible. > > In the case of exchanging Flow Records with different network > domains or customers, this function can avoid making a > vulnerability by deleting unnecessary Information Elements. By > deleting unnecessary Information Elements, this function can hide > the network topology and another customer's information. In > particular, "ipNextHopIP{v4|v6}Address", "bgpNextHopIP{v4| > v6}Address", and "bgp{Next|Prev}AdjacentAsNumber" correspond to > network topology information. In addition, MPLS-related > Information Elements, such as "mplsLabelStackSection", that are > useless for customers might be removed in the case of feeding the > Flow Records to VPN customers. > > Modification of the value of Information Element > > This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements > according to instructions configured by the user. > > For example, this function enables us to overwrite private > information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP > address and port number is sensitive private information. In the > case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these > Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. > In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information > Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can > anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which > Information Elements are anonymized. For example, > "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 11] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". > The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information Elements? > > 3.3. Exporting Process > > This process forwards Flow Records to the next Collector. These > processes manage the reporting template and make an IPFIX datagram. > > In addition, this process has the Distribution Function as an option. > If this function is enabled, this process distributes Flow Records > based on Flow content and then exports each classified Flow Record to > each Collector. > > The Exporting Process distributes Flow Records on the basis of the > peering AS, as shown in the following figure. Each classified Flow Peer AS in the incoming data, or on the Exporting side? Is BGP required? Surely this would/should be user configurable? > Record is exported to a dedicated Collector on the basis of the > Peering AS. > > +-------------------------------------------+ > | IPFIX Mediator .----------. | > | |Exporting | | > | |Process | | > | .----------. .---------. | | | PeerAS#100 > Flow -->|Collecting|->|Metering |----->/------------> Collector#A > Records |Process | |Process | | | | | PeerAS#200 > | '----------' '---------' | /------------> Collector#B > | | | | | PeerAS#300 > | | /------------> Collector#C > | | | | | PeerAS#400 > | | /------------> Collector#D > | | | | > | '----------' | > +-------------------------------------------+ > > Figure B: Exporting each classified Flow Record to dedicated Collector. > > 3.4. Storing Process > > This process selects specified Information Elements using the storing > instruction from the inputted Flow Records. Prior to receiving Flow What is the "storing instruction" ? > Records, this process has instructions that are configured by the > user, which indicate whether each field should be stored or > discarded. The field modifier indicates "keep" or "discard", which > is similar to the instruction of the aggregation process. The field > modifier specifies how these Information Elements are treated by the > process. This field modifier is applied to Information Elements > within Flow Record and IPFIX header, such as "Observation Domain ID" > and "Export time". This header information MAY be used when IPFIX > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 12] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > datagrams are made of past Flow Records. > > When another node retrieves past Flow Records, we can consider How does it retrieve them? > several specifications. One solution is that another node gets a > specified flat file from a Mediator and decodes that flat file by > itself. Other solutions are that another node sends out the query > command to the IPFIX Mediator through XML-RPC, SNMP, or NETCONF, and > then the IPFIX Mediator exports the specified past Flow Records. > This function is outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 13] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations > > This section describes IPFIX protocol considerations with regard to > IPFIX Mediator. > > 4.1. Export Time Issue > > If the Exporting Process writes the "Export Time" of the IPFIX > message when an IPFIX message leaves, an IPFIX Mediator needs to > compensate for the delta time Information Elements contained in each "the" -> "any" > Flow Record. An IPFIX Proxy SHOULD reuse the "Export Time" of "SHOULD" -> "MUST" > received IPFIX messages from the Original Exporter. > > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management > > To comply with the IPFIX protocol the Observation Domain ID value is > RECOMMENDED to be assigned uniquely per IPFIX Mediator. In addition, > Observation Domain ID SHOULD be 0 when IPFIX Mediator exports > aggregated Flow Records and cannot manage the specific Observation > Domain ID of the Original Exporter. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an > IPFIX datagram from a transport session to a transport session, IPFIX > Proxy does not need to overwrite the Observation Domain ID with > another value. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an IPFIX datagram from > multiple transport sessions to a single ransport session, IPFIX Proxy > needs to overwrite the Observation Domain ID. In that case, IPFIX > Proxy assigns the Observation Domain ID based on received Transport > Session Information and the original Observation Domain ID. The > renewed Observation Domain ID SHOULD be managed using the received > Transport Session Information and original Observation Domain ID. > This linkage information is available for overwriting the scope field > of the option template. > > 4.3. Template Management > > The template ID of a generated template SHOULD be unique on the basis "Template". Please be sure to capitalise IPFIX terminology! > of the Observation Domain ID assigned by an IPFIX Mediator. The > template ID needs to be unique on the basis of IPFIX Mediator when > the Observation Domain ID is 0. If the IPFIX Mediator overwrites the > received template ID to relay a received template or modified > template, the renewed template ID SHOULD be managed using received > Transport Session Information and received Observation Domain ID. > This linkage information is available for overwriting scope field of > an option template and template handling. If IPFIX Mediator receives > a "template withdraw message", it SHOULD modify this message to > indicate relevant templates, and send "template withdraw message". > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 14] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 4.4. Transport Session Management > > Each session of the Collecting Process and Exporting Process should > operate independently. Even if one session is reset, the status of > the other session is kept current. However, templates for resetting > collecting session SHOULD be withdrawn for the exporting session. > > 4.5. Option Template Management > > IPFIX Mediator MUST check whether the scope field is applicable, if > received Data Records associated Options templates are exported. If > an IPFIX Mediator rewrites the Observation Domain ID or template ID, > these values included in scope fields SHOULD be rewritten before > exporting. Instead of exporting the Options Template Records and > associated Data Records, Information Elements exported using the > Options template Record from the Original Exporter, such as sampling > rate or sampling method, could be merged in a Flow Record in an IPFIX > Mediator. In that case, IPFIX Mediator MUST modify the relevant > Template Record. Several sorts of received statistics Options > Template Records and associated Data Records could be exported in > different ways as other templates. In IPFIX Proxy, the Data Record > associated by statistics Options Template Records can be exported > after merging its counter. In addition, statistics Options Template > Records and associated Data Records can be exported by indicating the > source of the statistics data as a scope field instead of merging the > counter. This method is described in Section 6. The user policy > determines whether IPFIX Mediator and the above methods should export > Option Templates Records and associated Data Records. > > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information > > Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is Surely that's a loss of privacy? > useful to identify the Original Exporter. There are various methods > as follows. An IPFIX Mediator can directly merge Exporter > Information into Flow Records or use Options Templates described in > Section 6. If an IPFIX Mediator received fields related to the > Exporter information, IPFIX Mediator SHOULD NOT rewrite its own > previous Exporter information. The IPFIX Mediator can append its own > previous Exporter Information instead of rewriting. In the > Collecting Process, the order of the Exporter information means the > Original Exporter and the route of IPFIX Mediator. These methods > defined by user policy determine whether IPFIX Mediator should report > that information has been exported Some text seems to be missing here? > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 15] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators > > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation > > An IPFIX Mediator can aggregate Flow Records in the same manner as > that of IPFIX concentrator and reduce the number of Flow Records > received by a traffic collector. > > The following figure indicates a cascade connection of IPFIX > Mediators. If a Collector measures a traffic matrix to obtain > traffic demand, the Collector needs Flow Records of the whole network > domain, but does not need detailed Flow Records. In the first step, > a Mediator receives Flow Records from IPFIX Devices and then creates "a first level Mediator" > aggregated low-level Flow Records. For example, this step is prefix > mask aggregation. Next, the Mediator receives aggregated Flow "Next, a second level Mediator" > Records and aggregates them further. For example, the second step is > the aggregation of the BGP next-hop address and exporter address. > After this, the collector receives high-level aggregated Flow Records > and then stores them. This method enables step-by-step aggregation > of Flow Records without overloading a single node. > > .--------. .--------. > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | > |router#1|---->|Mediator|---. > | | |*1 | | > '--------' '--------' | .--------. .---------. > '--->|IPFIX | |Traffic | > .--------. .--------. .--->|Mediator|---->|Collector| > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | | |*2 | | | > |router#2|---->|Mediator|---' '--------' '---------' > | | |*1 | > '--------' '--------' > > Figure C: Flexible Aggregation with cascading IPFIX Mediators. > > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation > > When the network is used globally, the distances between PoPs become > longer, and the maintenance of a dedicated management network is very > expensive. Therefore, the huge number of Flow Records has burdened > the management networks of global ISPs. If we place Mediators at > each PoP, the number of Flow Records exported from each PoP can be > reduced. Mediators can minimize the number of Flow Records exported > to the Collector. If the Collector needs detailed information, it > can retrieve Flow Records from Mediators that store original Flow > Records. > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 16] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > A management network of a global ISP is shown in the following > figure. The Mediators are located at each PoP of the network, and > they collect Flow Records from routers in each PoP domain. The > Mediator reduces the number of Flow Records by aggregating or > filtering, so this system reduces the load of a management network. > > POP#Asia > .--------. > .--------. | .---------. > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----. > |router |---'----->|#1 | | > |#1 |-' '---------' | > '--------' | > | > POP#America | > .--------. | > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | '---->|Traffic | > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > |router |---'----->|#2 | .---->| | > |#4 |-' '---------' | '---------' > '--------' | > | > POP#Europe | > .--------. | > .--------. | .---------. | > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | | > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----' > |router |---'----->|#3 | > |#7 |-' '---------' > '--------' > > Figure D: Traffic monitoring architecture in global network. > > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records > > An IPFIX Mediator duplicates Flow Records to achieve redundant > storage or utilizes them for several purposes. The pair of > Collecting Process and Metering Processes is similar to the pair of > the Observation Point and Metering Process. The Collecting Process > duplicates Flow records by forwarding them to the multi-Metering > Process. > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 17] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Several departments in an ISP want to use the same traffic > information for each intended purpose. For example, the network > design department measures the traffic matrix to obtain traffic > demand, and the customer service division uses traffic information > for performing accounting services for each customer while the > network operation center uses traffic information for trouble > shooting analysis. That case is shown in the following figure. An > IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records to several Collectors that > have the appropriate aggregated granularity. In addition, when a NOC > conducts troubleshooting, past Flow Records from Mediators can be > retrieved. > > Measurement traffic matrix. > .--------. .---------. > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector| > | | | | |#1 | > '--------' | | '---------' > | | Using Accounting info. > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > |IPFIX | '---->|IPFIX |----' |Traffic | > |router#2|--------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > | | .---->| |----. |#2 | > '--------' | '---------' | '---------' > | | Using Trouble shooting. > .--------. | | .---------. > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector| > | | |#3 | > '--------' '---------' The bottom left router should be "router#3" > > Figure E: Duplication of Flow Records for several purposes. > > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records > > An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record "MAY distribute" > content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and > sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow > Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. It's unclear to me what this means. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 18] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > the privacy policy should be considered. In that case, IPFIX > Mediator hides private information about each customer. For example, > Mediator distributes traffic information based on RD (Route > Distinguisher), egress IF, peering AS number, or BGP next hop, which > identify the customer. In the following figure, the IPFIX Mediator > distributes Flow Records based on RD. The system securely allows > each customer to access only their own records. > > .--------. .---------. > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector|<===> Customer#A > | | | | |#1 | > '--------' | | '---------' > | RD=100:1 > | .---------. | > .--------. '---->|IPFIX |----' .---------. > |IPFIX | |Mediator | RD=100:2 |Traffic | > |router#2|--------->| |--------->|Collector|<===> Customer#B > | | | | |#2 | > '--------' .---->| |----. '---------' > | '---------' | > | RD=100:3 > .--------. | | .---------. > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector|<===> Customer#C > | | |#3 | > '--------' '---------' > > Figure F: Distribution of Flow Records for each customer. > > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow > > An IPFIX Mediator performs filtering based on Flow Record content. > If the filter conditions are set depending on the suspicious flow as > follows, the Collector receives the specified suspicious flow and > detects an anomalous flow by simply monitoring the traffic volume of > each suspicious flow. > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to "null" > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to the SYN > bit only and the packet counter is only 1. This will always happen for TCP flows of 1 or more packets. It might be suspicious if the count was still 1 after some time. > > o ICMP Flow Records whose length is too long. > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 19] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation > > This section describes Option Templates that are used by IPFIX > Mediators. > > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template > > Each IPFIX Mediator and final destination Collector needs to know the > Original Exporter and route of IPFIX Mediators. Therefore, each > IPFIX Mediator informs the next Collector about previous Exporter > information, which is the Exporter Information Option Template that > specified the Original Exporter and the route of the IPFIX Mediator. > The final destination Collector can recognize them by receiving this > template. This template is composed of the following Information > Elements. > > o exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > o collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > o exporterTransportPort > > o collectorTransportPort > > o collectorTransportProtocol > > o observationDomainId > > The Observation Domain ID of the Original Exporter or IPFIX Mediator > is identified by specifying exporter/collector Information Elements, > such as "collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address", "collectorTransportPort", > "collectorTransportProtocol", ,"exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address", > "exporterTransportPort", and "observationDomainId". The set of > "observationDomainId" and "templateId" or "observationDomainId" might > be used as a scope field. Not all Information Elements are > necessary. For example, the exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address is necessary > to inform the next Collector the Original Exporter which created Flow > Records. If the IPFIX Mediator receives this template, it SHOULD not > overwrite each field. The IPFIX Mediator appends its own previous > Exporter information onto received Data Records specified by the > Exporter Option Template and sends that information to the Collector. > In this manner, the route is maintained until the final destination > Collector. > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 20] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > Mediators. Each Mediator informs the next Collector about previous > Exporter information. > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > Figure G: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > Mediator#1 or Mediator#2 sends a Data Record specified by the > Exporter Option Template. The Data records are shown in Session#b or > Session#c, as follows. > > Session#b Data Record: > Field Count = 7 > Scope Count = 1 > templateId = XXX > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 10 > collectorTransportPort = 20 > observationDomainId = 10 Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? P. > > Session#c Data Record: > Field Count = 13 > Scope Count = 1 > templateId = XXX > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 10 > collectorTransportPort = 20 > observationDomainId = 10 > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 30 > collectorTransportPort = 40 > observationDomainId = 0 > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 21] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field > > An IPFIX Mediator needs to send forward a Options Template Records > and associated Data Records from the Original Exporter. However, > IPFIX Mediator can not export an original Option Template Records and > associated Data Records without modification because changing a > session from an Exporting Process to a Collecting Process causes the > scope fields to become a useless value. When an IPFIX Mediator > relays the Options Template Records that included Observation Domain > ID as a scope field and associated Data Records, an IPFIX Mediator > uses the Exporter Information Option Template. The Options Template > Records that were created from an Original Exporter can use the > entire fields of the Exporter Information Option template as multiple > scope fields. The Options Template Records that were created from > anIPFIX Mediator can uses the some fields of the Exporter Information > Option template as multiple scope fields. An IPFIX Mediator needs to > modify the associated Data Records according to the modified Options > Template Record. However, if each node uses another field except for > the Observation Domain ID as the scope, the scope field should be > considered on a case-by-case basis. > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > Mediators. Router#1 and Mediator#1 export the Metering Process > Statistics Option Template. > > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > Figure H: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > Mediator#2 exports each Option Template and its Data Record with a > suitable scope. > > Session#c Metering Process Statistics Data Records from the Original > Exporter: > Field Count = 15 > Scope Count = 12 > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 10 > collectorTransportPort = 20 > observationDomainId = 10 > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 22] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > exporterTransportPort = 30 > collectorTransportPort = 40 > observationDomainId = 0 > exportedMessageTotalCount > exportedFlowTotalCount > exportedOctetTotalCount > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 23] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 7. Security Considerations > > The IPFIX concentrator uses the IPFIX protocol. Security > considerations about flow information are described in > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 24] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 8. IANA Considerations > > This document has no actions for IANA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 25] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > 9. References > > 9.1. Normative References > > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. > > 9.2. Informative References > > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation] > Dressler, F., Sommer, C., and G. Munz, "IPFIX > Aggregation", draft-dressler-ipfix-aggregation-03.txt > (work in progress) , June 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture] > Sadasivan, G., Brownlee, N., Claise, B., and J. Quittek, > "Architecture for IP Flow Information Export", > draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-12.txt(work in progress) , > September 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info] > Quittek, J., Bryant, S., Claise, B., and J. Meyer, > "Information Model for IP Flow Information Export", > draft-ietf-ipfix-info-13.txt(work in progress) , > June 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] > Claise, B., "IPFIX Protocol Specification", > draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-23 (work in progress) , > October 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework] > Duffield, N., "A Framework for Packet Selection and > Reporting", draft-ietf-psamp-framework-10.txt , > January 2005. > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech] > Zseby, T., Molina, M., Duffield, N., Niccolini, S., and F. > Raspall, "Sampling and Filtering Techniques for IP Packet > Selection", draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-07.txt , > July 2005. > > [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. Zander, > "Requirements for IP Flow Information Export(IPFIX)", > October 2004. > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 26] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Authors' Addresses > > Atsushi Kobayashi > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > Japan > > Phone: +81-422-59-3978 > Email: akoba@nttv6.net > > > Keisuke Ishibashi > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > Japan > > Phone: +81-422-59-3407 > Email: ishibashi.keisuke@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > Kondoh Tsuyoshi > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > Japan > > Phone: +81-422-59-2419 > Email: kondoh.tsuyoshi@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > Daisuke Matsubara > Hitachi, Ltd., Central Reseach Laboratory > 1-280 Higashi-koigakubo > Kokubunji-shi, Tokyo 185-8601 > Japan > > Phone: +81-42-323-1111 > Email: d-matuba@crl.hitachi.co.jp > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 27] > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > Full Copyright Statement > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > retain all their rights. > > This document and the information contained herein are provided on an > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF > THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED > WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > > Intellectual Property > > The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any > Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to > pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in > this document or the extent to which any license under such rights > might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has > made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information > on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be > found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any > assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an > attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of > such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this > specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at > http://www.ietf.org/ipr. > > The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any > copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary > rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement > this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at > ietf-ipr@ietf.org. > > > Acknowledgment > > Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF > Administrative Support Activity (IASA). > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 28] > -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 19:26:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqFU-00046J-27; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:26:32 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqFS-00046C-6f for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:26:30 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqFR-0003vI-Ej for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:26:30 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:26:09 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:26:06 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Thread-Index: AcfPCFJDudCDJPOSTsGRFBwWFGfZqgACJuZw References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Nevil Brownlee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2007 23:26:09.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E426560:01C7CF13] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c Cc: X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Nevil, Your choice might consider that items 3 and 4 don't received support any = operators and that item 5 did. Items 3, 4 and 5 provide good examples of mediator functions. So, in my = opinion, the first step consists in writing a doc giving the = requirements and the arch of a mediator. Regards Emile =20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Nevil Brownlee [mailto:nevil@auckland.ac.nz] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 26 juillet 2007 00:08 > =C0=A0: ipfix@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two >=20 >=20 > Hi again all: >=20 > Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier > posting. >=20 > Cheers, Nevil >=20 > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >=20 > IPFIX: Proposal for new work > Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago >=20 > For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 > (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. > Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< > Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the > questionnaire form below!! >=20 > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: > - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue > - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > issue a revised draft > - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call > - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last = Call > - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio > - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue > Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take > 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have > progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! > - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made > in the next revisions of both these drafts >=20 > 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) > Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. > Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, > in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. > (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX = Configuration. > Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 >=20 > 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) > Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) > Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > For items 0 to 4 above, we'd like to make a list of several committed > reviewers for each. Please help me with this by filling in and > returning the form below >=20 > IPFIX work item Reviewers > ------------------------- >=20 > Name: _____________________________ >=20 > I will review documents for the following items: > (put a 'y' in the boxes on the next line) >=20 > 0 [ ], 1 [ ], 2 [ ], 3 [ ], 4 [ ] >=20 > Email this form to nevil@auckland.ac.nz -- thankyou ! >=20 > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX = Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. >=20 > 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) > Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. > Would this be better as an individual draft? >=20 > 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) > Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. >=20 > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >=20 > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland = http://www.auckland.ac.nz >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 19:26:42 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqFU-00046J-27; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:26:32 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqFS-00046C-6f for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:26:30 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqFR-0003vI-Ej for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 19:26:30 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:26:09 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:26:06 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Thread-Index: AcfPCFJDudCDJPOSTsGRFBwWFGfZqgACJuZw References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Nevil Brownlee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 25 Jul 2007 23:26:09.0078 (UTC) FILETIME=[2E426560:01C7CF13] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b1c41982e167b872076d0018e4e1dc3c Cc: X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Nevil, Your choice might consider that items 3 and 4 don't received support any = operators and that item 5 did. Items 3, 4 and 5 provide good examples of mediator functions. So, in my = opinion, the first step consists in writing a doc giving the = requirements and the arch of a mediator. Regards Emile =20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Nevil Brownlee [mailto:nevil@auckland.ac.nz] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 26 juillet 2007 00:08 > =C0=A0: ipfix@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two >=20 >=20 > Hi again all: >=20 > Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier > posting. >=20 > Cheers, Nevil >=20 > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >=20 > IPFIX: Proposal for new work > Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago >=20 > For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 > (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. > Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< > Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the > questionnaire form below!! >=20 > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: > - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue > - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > issue a revised draft > - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call > - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last = Call > - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio > - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue > Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take > 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have > progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! > - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made > in the next revisions of both these drafts >=20 > 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) > Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. > Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, > in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. > (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX = Configuration. > Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 >=20 > 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) > Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) > Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > For items 0 to 4 above, we'd like to make a list of several committed > reviewers for each. Please help me with this by filling in and > returning the form below >=20 > IPFIX work item Reviewers > ------------------------- >=20 > Name: _____________________________ >=20 > I will review documents for the following items: > (put a 'y' in the boxes on the next line) >=20 > 0 [ ], 1 [ ], 2 [ ], 3 [ ], 4 [ ] >=20 > Email this form to nevil@auckland.ac.nz -- thankyou ! >=20 > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX = Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. >=20 > 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) > Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. > Would this be better as an individual draft? >=20 > 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) > Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. >=20 > = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >=20 > = ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland = http://www.auckland.ac.nz >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 20:04:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqpk-0000gZ-31; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:04:00 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqpi-0000gU-Ve for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:03:59 -0400 Received: from nj300815-nj-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.12.100] helo=nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqpi-0004dZ-HG for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:03:58 -0400 Received: from 12.140.64.135.in-addr.arpa (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2007 20:03:57 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,582,1175486400"; d="scan'208"; a="42928921:sNHT8296878" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:03:55 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070726094628.y2fkpmxxcw00oc0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items Thread-Index: AcfPBV0O5NVW6EyPREqhBnW2clEc2QAEqgRQ References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz><46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> <20070726094628.y2fkpmxxcw00oc0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Nevil Brownlee" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org To add to what Nevil said. Stewart's concern is certainly justified and probably based on some experience :-) In full truth there is no guarantee that the risks that he is mentioning could be 100% avoided. However, it would help to include in the revised I-D a short log changes section that makes clear that removing SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document is the sole goal of this version. Also, the Last Call texts should mention that it I sonly this specific set of changes that is being last called. I will personally take care that this is included in the IETF LC.=20 Dan =20 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Nevil Brownlee [mailto:nevil@auckland.ac.nz]=20 > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:46 AM > To: stbryant@cisco.com > Cc: ipfix@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items >=20 >=20 > Hi Stewart: >=20 > >> re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. > >> > > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new LC=20 > > comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process=20 > you cannot=20 > > be sure what you will get out. > > > > Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second=20 > draft that=20 > > explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new transport mode. >=20 > We considered doing that, it's certainly not an approach to=20 > be taken lightly. > Consensus at the meeting was that we're blocked waiting for=20 > the PSAMP Info draft, which will probably take a fair while yet. >=20 > The plan is to limit changes to *only* those addressed in=20 > Brian Trammell's "SCTP change" draft, which we expect to=20 > minimise the chance of new blocks appearing. And last, since=20 > the Protocol documents is sitting in the RFC Editor queue -=20 > i.e. it hasn't been published yet - we have that (rare)=20 > chance to fix it in the original RFC, rather than forcing=20 > everyone to refer to a 'changes' RFC as well as a Protocol RFC. >=20 > Cheers, Nevil >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland=20 > http://www.auckland.ac.nz >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Wed Jul 25 20:04:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqpk-0000gZ-31; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:04:00 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqpi-0000gU-Ve for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:03:59 -0400 Received: from nj300815-nj-outbound.net.avaya.com ([198.152.12.100] helo=nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDqpi-0004dZ-HG for ipfix@ietf.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2007 20:03:58 -0400 Received: from 12.140.64.135.in-addr.arpa (HELO 307622ANEX5.global.avaya.com) ([135.64.140.12]) by nj300815-nj-outbound.avaya.com with ESMTP; 25 Jul 2007 20:03:57 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,582,1175486400"; d="scan'208"; a="42928921:sNHT8296878" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:03:55 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <20070726094628.y2fkpmxxcw00oc0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items Thread-Index: AcfPBV0O5NVW6EyPREqhBnW2clEc2QAEqgRQ References: <20070726024800.ek1t57ckowowow0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz><46A79705.5000106@cisco.com> <20070726094628.y2fkpmxxcw00oc0g@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> From: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" To: "Nevil Brownlee" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f60d0f7806b0c40781eee6b9cd0b2135 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org To add to what Nevil said. Stewart's concern is certainly justified and probably based on some experience :-) In full truth there is no guarantee that the risks that he is mentioning could be 100% avoided. However, it would help to include in the revised I-D a short log changes section that makes clear that removing SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document is the sole goal of this version. Also, the Last Call texts should mention that it I sonly this specific set of changes that is being last called. I will personally take care that this is included in the IETF LC.=20 Dan =20 =20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Nevil Brownlee [mailto:nevil@auckland.ac.nz]=20 > Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:46 AM > To: stbryant@cisco.com > Cc: ipfix@ietf.org > Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items >=20 >=20 > Hi Stewart: >=20 > >> re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. > >> > > That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new LC=20 > > comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process=20 > you cannot=20 > > be sure what you will get out. > > > > Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second=20 > draft that=20 > > explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new transport mode. >=20 > We considered doing that, it's certainly not an approach to=20 > be taken lightly. > Consensus at the meeting was that we're blocked waiting for=20 > the PSAMP Info draft, which will probably take a fair while yet. >=20 > The plan is to limit changes to *only* those addressed in=20 > Brian Trammell's "SCTP change" draft, which we expect to=20 > minimise the chance of new blocks appearing. And last, since=20 > the Protocol documents is sitting in the RFC Editor queue -=20 > i.e. it hasn't been published yet - we have that (rare)=20 > chance to fix it in the original RFC, rather than forcing=20 > everyone to refer to a 'changes' RFC as well as a Protocol RFC. >=20 > Cheers, Nevil >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------- > --------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland=20 > http://www.auckland.ac.nz >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 01:56:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwKf-0007NJ-S8; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:56:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwKf-0007NB-3v for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:56:17 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwKe-0002PS-5N for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:56:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD4828014C8C; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T+nwcuDkxVAv; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F190A28014C80; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:56:05 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:01 +0200 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two From: Juergen Quittek To: Nevil Brownlee , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Thread-Index: AcfPSaTu48Yuezs8EdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Cc: X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I got questions from several WG members on the status of this list of candidate work items for an updated IPFIX charter. According to the discussion we had in our session on Tuesday, the list of work items below is not final, but a suggestion that should be discussed on this mailing list. For item 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document we agreed to approve the consensus we had in the session on the mailing list. For items 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) there was no doubt expressed that these would be very good work items for IPFIX. For items 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) discussions were controversial and time was limited So, we agreed to discuss them further on the mailing list. I will send an individual mail for triggering discussion on each of them in separate emails. For any of these items: Please have a look at the related drafts and tell us what you think about them. Thanks, Juergen On 26.07.2007 0:08 "Nevil Brownlee" wrote: > > Hi again all: > > Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier posting. > > Cheers, Nevil > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > IPFIX: Proposal for new work > Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago > > For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 > (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. > Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< > Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the > questionnaire form below!! > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: > - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue > - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > issue a revised draft > - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call > - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last Call > - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio > - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue > Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take > 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have > progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! > - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made > in the next revisions of both these drafts > > 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) > Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. > Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, > in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. > (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX Configuration. > Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 > > 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) > Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) > Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > For items 0 to 4 above, we'd like to make a list of several committed > reviewers for each. Please help me with this by filling in and > returning the form below > > IPFIX work item Reviewers > ------------------------- > > Name: _____________________________ > > I will review documents for the following items: > (put a 'y' in the boxes on the next line) > > 0 [ ], 1 [ ], 2 [ ], 3 [ ], 4 [ ] > > Email this form to nevil@auckland.ac.nz -- thankyou ! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. > > 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) > Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. > Would this be better as an individual draft? > > 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) > Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. > > ======================================================================= > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 01:56:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwKf-0007NJ-S8; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:56:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwKf-0007NB-3v for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:56:17 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwKe-0002PS-5N for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 01:56:16 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BD4828014C8C; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:17 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T+nwcuDkxVAv; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F190A28014C80; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:56:05 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:56:01 +0200 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two From: Juergen Quittek To: Nevil Brownlee , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Thread-Index: AcfPSaTu48Yuezs8EdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 87a3f533bb300b99e2a18357f3c1563d Cc: X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I got questions from several WG members on the status of this list of candidate work items for an updated IPFIX charter. According to the discussion we had in our session on Tuesday, the list of work items below is not final, but a suggestion that should be discussed on this mailing list. For item 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document we agreed to approve the consensus we had in the session on the mailing list. For items 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) there was no doubt expressed that these would be very good work items for IPFIX. For items 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) discussions were controversial and time was limited So, we agreed to discuss them further on the mailing list. I will send an individual mail for triggering discussion on each of them in separate emails. For any of these items: Please have a look at the related drafts and tell us what you think about them. Thanks, Juergen On 26.07.2007 0:08 "Nevil Brownlee" wrote: > > Hi again all: > > Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier posting. > > Cheers, Nevil > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > IPFIX: Proposal for new work > Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago > > For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 > (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. > Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< > Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the > questionnaire form below!! > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: > - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue > - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > issue a revised draft > - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call > - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last Call > - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio > - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue > Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take > 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have > progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! > - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made > in the next revisions of both these drafts > > 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) > Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. > Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, > in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. > (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX Configuration. > Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 > > 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) > Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) > Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > For items 0 to 4 above, we'd like to make a list of several committed > reviewers for each. Please help me with this by filling in and > returning the form below > > IPFIX work item Reviewers > ------------------------- > > Name: _____________________________ > > I will review documents for the following items: > (put a 'y' in the boxes on the next line) > > 0 [ ], 1 [ ], 2 [ ], 3 [ ], 4 [ ] > > Email this form to nevil@auckland.ac.nz -- thankyou ! > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. > > 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) > Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. > Would this be better as an individual draft? > > 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) > Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. > > ======================================================================= > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS > Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland > FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand > > ----------------------------------------------------------------------- > This mail sent through University of Auckland http://www.auckland.ac.nz > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:09:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwXi-0000vr-3J; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:09:46 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwXd-0000jq-HL for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:09:41 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwXc-0002a6-Ga for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:09:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832E928014C8C; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id za86YGlSUJEm; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A33528014C80; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:09:19 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:17 +0200 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items From: Juergen Quittek To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Nevil Brownlee , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items Thread-Index: AcfPBV0O5NVW6EyPREqhBnW2clEc2QAEqgRQAAzekdQ= In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Just for clarification: this issue is not concerning the discussion of re-chartering IPFIX. It is the action of calling the current draft of the IPFIX protocol back from the RFC editor queue before it gets published and modifying it as described in draft-trammell-ipfix-sctp-change. This implies also changes required in the implementation guidelines. For both documents it will be required to run WGLC and IETF LC again. If you see any problem with this (as Stewart did), please send us your concerns until the end of next week. Thanks, Juergen Am 26.07.2007 2:03 Uhr schrieb "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" unter : > To add to what Nevil said. Stewart's concern is certainly justified and > probably based on some experience :-) In full truth there is no > guarantee that the risks that he is mentioning could be 100% avoided. > However, it would help to include in the revised I-D a short log changes > section that makes clear that removing SCTP stream restrictions in > Protocol Document is the sole goal of this version. Also, the Last Call > texts should mention that it I sonly this specific set of changes that > is being last called. I will personally take care that this is included > in the IETF LC. > > Dan > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nevil Brownlee [mailto:nevil@auckland.ac.nz] >> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:46 AM >> To: stbryant@cisco.com >> Cc: ipfix@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items >> >> >> Hi Stewart: >> >>>> re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. >>>> >>> That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new LC >>> comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process >> you cannot >>> be sure what you will get out. >>> >>> Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second >> draft that >>> explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new transport mode. >> >> We considered doing that, it's certainly not an approach to >> be taken lightly. >> Consensus at the meeting was that we're blocked waiting for >> the PSAMP Info draft, which will probably take a fair while yet. >> >> The plan is to limit changes to *only* those addressed in >> Brian Trammell's "SCTP change" draft, which we expect to >> minimise the chance of new blocks appearing. And last, since >> the Protocol documents is sitting in the RFC Editor queue - >> i.e. it hasn't been published yet - we have that (rare) >> chance to fix it in the original RFC, rather than forcing >> everyone to refer to a 'changes' RFC as well as a Protocol RFC. >> >> Cheers, Nevil >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS >> Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland >> FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> This mail sent through University of Auckland >> http://www.auckland.ac.nz >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:09:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwXi-0000vr-3J; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:09:46 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwXd-0000jq-HL for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:09:41 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwXc-0002a6-Ga for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:09:41 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 832E928014C8C; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:41 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id za86YGlSUJEm; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:41 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A33528014C80; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:09:19 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:09:17 +0200 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items From: Juergen Quittek To: "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" , Nevil Brownlee , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items Thread-Index: AcfPBV0O5NVW6EyPREqhBnW2clEc2QAEqgRQAAzekdQ= In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: a2c12dacc0736f14d6b540e805505a86 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Just for clarification: this issue is not concerning the discussion of re-chartering IPFIX. It is the action of calling the current draft of the IPFIX protocol back from the RFC editor queue before it gets published and modifying it as described in draft-trammell-ipfix-sctp-change. This implies also changes required in the implementation guidelines. For both documents it will be required to run WGLC and IETF LC again. If you see any problem with this (as Stewart did), please send us your concerns until the end of next week. Thanks, Juergen Am 26.07.2007 2:03 Uhr schrieb "Romascanu, Dan (Dan)" unter : > To add to what Nevil said. Stewart's concern is certainly justified and > probably based on some experience :-) In full truth there is no > guarantee that the risks that he is mentioning could be 100% avoided. > However, it would help to include in the revised I-D a short log changes > section that makes clear that removing SCTP stream restrictions in > Protocol Document is the sole goal of this version. Also, the Last Call > texts should mention that it I sonly this specific set of changes that > is being last called. I will personally take care that this is included > in the IETF LC. > > Dan > > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Nevil Brownlee [mailto:nevil@auckland.ac.nz] >> Sent: Thursday, July 26, 2007 12:46 AM >> To: stbryant@cisco.com >> Cc: ipfix@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items >> >> >> Hi Stewart: >> >>>> re-run WG Last Call and IETF Last Call, resubmit to IESG. >>>> >>> That's a big deal that may result in all kinds of changes - new LC >>> comments, new discusses etc. When you start this process >> you cannot >>> be sure what you will get out. >>> >>> Why not continue with draft as it is and produce a second >> draft that >>> explains how to run the ipfix protocol in this new transport mode. >> >> We considered doing that, it's certainly not an approach to >> be taken lightly. >> Consensus at the meeting was that we're blocked waiting for >> the PSAMP Info draft, which will probably take a fair while yet. >> >> The plan is to limit changes to *only* those addressed in >> Brian Trammell's "SCTP change" draft, which we expect to >> minimise the chance of new blocks appearing. And last, since >> the Protocol documents is sitting in the RFC Editor queue - >> i.e. it hasn't been published yet - we have that (rare) >> chance to fix it in the original RFC, rather than forcing >> everyone to refer to a 'changes' RFC as well as a Protocol RFC. >> >> Cheers, Nevil >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> Nevil Brownlee Computer Science Department | ITS >> Phone: +64 9 373 7599 x88941 The University of Auckland >> FAX: +64 9 373 7453 Private Bag 92019, Auckland 1142, New Zealand >> >> -------------------------------------------------------------- >> --------- >> This mail sent through University of Auckland >> http://www.auckland.ac.nz >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:28:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwpK-00051f-Pd; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:27:58 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwpH-0004qj-QE for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:27:56 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwpH-0002ql-Bw for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:27:55 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636C428014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3qznCdzbLcV4 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E0D28014C80 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:27:49 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:47 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #4: extended types Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers. It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this method when IPFIX records are stored. Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. Thanks, Juergen _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:28:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwpK-00051f-Pd; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:27:58 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwpH-0004qj-QE for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:27:56 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwpH-0002ql-Bw for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:27:55 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636C428014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:56 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3qznCdzbLcV4 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52E0D28014C80 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:51 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:27:49 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:27:47 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #4: extended types Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers. It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this method when IPFIX records are stored. Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. Thanks, Juergen _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:38:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwzo-0004q4-D5; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:38:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwzn-0004pz-96 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:38:47 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwzl-0005Hl-Uk for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:38:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0806C28014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTGfTsCDqrQH for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FD928014C80 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:38:38 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:36 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #6: order of information elements Thread-Index: AcfPT5fU1kEdaTtCEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. > 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) > Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. > Would this be better as an individual draft? This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the author explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order of information elements with an order according to his proposal and achieved significant performance improvements. Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks like a very good IPFIX work item. Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. Would any implementor be willing to do so? If yes, until when would you have results? Thanks, Juergen _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:38:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwzo-0004q4-D5; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:38:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwzn-0004pz-96 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:38:47 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDwzl-0005Hl-Uk for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:38:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0806C28014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:45 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTGfTsCDqrQH for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id E8FD928014C80 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:39 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:38:38 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:38:36 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #6: order of information elements Thread-Index: AcfPT5fU1kEdaTtCEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. > 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) > Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. > Would this be better as an individual draft? This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the author explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order of information elements with an order according to his proposal and achieved significant performance improvements. Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks like a very good IPFIX work item. Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. Would any implementor be willing to do so? If yes, until when would you have results? Thanks, Juergen _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:53:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxDu-0007FB-4m; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:53:22 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxDt-0007CK-3Q for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:53:21 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxDr-0005WP-Rk for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:53:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC08228014C90 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fZx8lMO0l1ym for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9A828014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:53:14 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:05 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #5: aggregation/mediation Thread-Index: AcfPUZ3L3BjRUztEEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #5: aggregation/mediation X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidate #5 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt. > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. This draft describes how IPFIX flow records from a large number of exporters can be aggregated by one or more a mediator devices. This is a contribution from an operator and during the discussion Emile coming from another operator confirmed that this is a highly relevant use case. At the IETF we are usually short of feedback from operators. If now two operators tell us that the WG should work on this issue, we should consider the item seriously. Please have a look at the draft and tell us what you think about the idea and if this should or should not become and IPFIX work item. Thanks, Juergen _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 02:53:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxDu-0007FB-4m; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:53:22 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxDt-0007CK-3Q for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:53:21 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxDr-0005WP-Rk for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 02:53:21 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC08228014C90 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:20 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fZx8lMO0l1ym for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:20 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9A828014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:15 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 06:53:14 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:53:05 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #5: aggregation/mediation Thread-Index: AcfPUZ3L3BjRUztEEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: ffa9dfbbe7cc58b3fa6b8ae3e57b0aa3 Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #5: aggregation/mediation X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidate #5 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt. > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. This draft describes how IPFIX flow records from a large number of exporters can be aggregated by one or more a mediator devices. This is a contribution from an operator and during the discussion Emile coming from another operator confirmed that this is a highly relevant use case. At the IETF we are usually short of feedback from operators. If now two operators tell us that the WG should work on this issue, we should consider the item seriously. Please have a look at the draft and tell us what you think about the idea and if this should or should not become and IPFIX work item. Thanks, Juergen _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 03:01:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxLs-0004mL-2P; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:01:36 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxLq-0004m9-C7 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:01:34 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxLq-0005fu-2A for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:01:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DBC28014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3WIq-CPDwBUD for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1363828014C80 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:01:28 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:26 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #7: flow sampling Thread-Index: AcfPUshpBwhbcjtGEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #7: flow sampling X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidate #7 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft-peluso-flowselection-tech-00.txt. > 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) > Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. This draft discusses an issue, we have been discussing already two or three years ago: the sampling of flows by a metering/exporting process. Still, this issue is rather new to the IPFIX WG and has not yet been discussed a lot. Research work might be needed to fully understand the issue. Speaking as technical contributor, I think that this work needs to become better understood and more mature before becoming a WG work item. Please have a look at the draft and tell us your opinion. Thanks, Juergen _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 03:01:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxLs-0004mL-2P; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:01:36 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxLq-0004m9-C7 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:01:34 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDxLq-0005fu-2A for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 03:01:34 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 23DBC28014C8C for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:35 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3WIq-CPDwBUD for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:35 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1363828014C80 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 67.97.210.2 ([67.97.210.2]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:01:28 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 09:01:26 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: Message-ID: Thread-Topic: new work item candidate #7: flow sampling Thread-Index: AcfPUshpBwhbcjtGEdytZQAWy4a5Gw== In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Subject: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #7: flow sampling X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, Candidate #7 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by draft-peluso-flowselection-tech-00.txt. > 7. Flow Sampling (Tanja Zseby) > Early stage so far, comments/participation encouraged. This draft discusses an issue, we have been discussing already two or three years ago: the sampling of flows by a metering/exporting process. Still, this issue is rather new to the IPFIX WG and has not yet been discussed a lot. Research work might be needed to fully understand the issue. Speaking as technical contributor, I think that this work needs to become better understood and more mature before becoming a WG work item. Please have a look at the draft and tell us your opinion. 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------=_NextPart_000_0013_01C7CF46.99B64C70-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 05:41:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDzq4-0004jq-UI; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDzq4-0004jk-36 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDzq2-00012A-HU for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6Q9eohB017954; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:40:50 +0200 Message-ID: <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:40:27 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.187; host: mx06) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de id l6Q9eohB017954 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul, Just a small comment: Paul Aitken wrote: >> Modification of the value of Information Element >> >> This function modifies the value of specified Information Elemen= ts >> according to instructions configured by the user. >> >> For example, this function enables us to overwrite private >> information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP >> address and port number is sensitive private information. In th= e >> case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these >> Information Elements are not essential factors for those purpose= s. >> In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information >> Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can >> anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report whi= ch >> Information Elements are anonymized. For example, >> "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements ha= ve >> been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". >> The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. >=20 > Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information > Elements? Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ Regards, Gerhard --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 05:41:06 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDzq4-0004jq-UI; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDzq4-0004jk-36 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IDzq2-00012A-HU for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 05:40:56 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6Q9eohB017954; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:40:50 +0200 Message-ID: <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:40:27 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.187; host: mx06) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de id l6Q9eohB017954 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul, Just a small comment: Paul Aitken wrote: >> Modification of the value of Information Element >> >> This function modifies the value of specified Information Elemen= ts >> according to instructions configured by the user. >> >> For example, this function enables us to overwrite private >> information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP >> address and port number is sensitive private information. In th= e >> case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these >> Information Elements are not essential factors for those purpose= s. >> In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information >> Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can >> anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report whi= ch >> Information Elements are anonymized. For example, >> "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements ha= ve >> been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". >> The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. >=20 > Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information > Elements? Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ Regards, Gerhard --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 07:18:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE1M5-0002dv-H3; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:18:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE1M3-0002dp-3x for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:18:03 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE1M1-0002dc-3x for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:18:02 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6QBI0Zx028452; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:18:00 +0200 Message-ID: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:17:36 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.187; host: mx06) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de id l6QBI0Zx028452 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I'm undecided about this draft. On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as claimed in the introduction of the draft: ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on them. ... In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be enough to display values correctly. Considering informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE informati= on. By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"? Regards, Gerhard Juergen Quittek wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >=20 >> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > elements by using option records that map data types to element identif= iers. >=20 > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > data type of received information elements. This may in particular happ= en > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet arra= y. > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >=20 > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using thi= s > method when IPFIX records are stored. >=20 > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 07:18:12 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE1M5-0002dv-H3; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:18:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE1M3-0002dp-3x for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:18:03 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE1M1-0002dc-3x for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 07:18:02 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6QBI0Zx028452; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:18:00 +0200 Message-ID: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:17:36 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.187; host: mx06) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de id l6QBI0Zx028452 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, I'm undecided about this draft. On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as claimed in the introduction of the draft: ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on them. ... In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be enough to display values correctly. Considering informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE informati= on. By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"? Regards, Gerhard Juergen Quittek wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >=20 >> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > elements by using option records that map data types to element identif= iers. >=20 > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > data type of received information elements. This may in particular happ= en > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet arra= y. > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >=20 > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using thi= s > method when IPFIX records are stored. >=20 > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From weakishness@decoration-bijoux-artisanat-inde.com Thu Jul 26 08:19:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE2JV-0006TQ-Ox; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:19:29 -0400 Received: from relay.pilot-tv.com.ua ([212.9.242.14]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE2JU-0003mi-38; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 08:19:29 -0400 Received: from [212.9.242.14] by mail.decoration-bijoux-artisanat-inde.com; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:23:13 -0200 Message-ID: <01c7cf7f$bc7a5b00$0ef209d4@weakishness> From: "Houston Ames" To: Subject: THANKS TO THIS SITE I CAN DOWNLOAD PHOTOSHOP CS3 ONLY $89 $269 Retail Price - US $ 1799.00 you save $1529 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:23:13 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 You save: $529.05 adobe photoshop cs2 v9.0 http://weboemlinksoft.com From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:13:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE45R-0000Xx-Bp; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:05 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE45Q-0000Xs-K7 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:04 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE45Q-0004yX-34 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:04 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 16:13:02 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAFRIqEaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149084141:sNHT28674508" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QED1wx032482; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:13:01 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QECtkt007876; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:12:55 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05019; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:12:49 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:12:51 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2555; t=1185459181; x=1186323181; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator- model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=8nKt0yfGUSQc7evlyGNf2xCX8iGCHgzj7vnXMHagkrY=; b=Q+iEd8e6SEXIc5y6qxL9LOSEdCMPZfwqGC7r3XE0v2wz7LfPgGFwE807RbiGym1gd71mCVrn 5l6Hx/yZ0aYFoRkRZlBBjOSEccQ9TMRkm3dMfw0YHJzlC6+y7vc0DmHJ; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Gerhard, > Just a small comment: > > Paul Aitken wrote: >>> Modification of the value of Information Element >>> >>> This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements >>> according to instructions configured by the user. >>> >>> For example, this function enables us to overwrite private >>> information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP >>> address and port number is sensitive private information. In the >>> case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these >>> Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. >>> In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information >>> Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can >>> anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which >>> Information Elements are anonymized. For example, >>> "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have >>> been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". >>> The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. >> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information >> Elements? > > Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization > techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing > inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed > by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": > http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX requirements, RFC 3917. However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's time we began to consider what the best method might be? So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised information? Since the original data can not be determined from the anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced size version of the field with zero-length. And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:13:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE45R-0000Xx-Bp; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:05 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE45Q-0000Xs-K7 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:04 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE45Q-0004yX-34 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:13:04 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 16:13:02 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAFRIqEaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149084141:sNHT28674508" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QED1wx032482; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:13:01 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QECtkt007876; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:12:55 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05019; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:12:49 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:12:51 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2555; t=1185459181; x=1186323181; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator- model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=8nKt0yfGUSQc7evlyGNf2xCX8iGCHgzj7vnXMHagkrY=; b=Q+iEd8e6SEXIc5y6qxL9LOSEdCMPZfwqGC7r3XE0v2wz7LfPgGFwE807RbiGym1gd71mCVrn 5l6Hx/yZ0aYFoRkRZlBBjOSEccQ9TMRkm3dMfw0YHJzlC6+y7vc0DmHJ; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Gerhard, > Just a small comment: > > Paul Aitken wrote: >>> Modification of the value of Information Element >>> >>> This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements >>> according to instructions configured by the user. >>> >>> For example, this function enables us to overwrite private >>> information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP >>> address and port number is sensitive private information. In the >>> case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these >>> Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. >>> In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information >>> Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can >>> anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which >>> Information Elements are anonymized. For example, >>> "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have >>> been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". >>> The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. >> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information >> Elements? > > Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization > techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing > inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed > by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": > http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX requirements, RFC 3917. However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's time we began to consider what the best method might be? So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised information? Since the original data can not be determined from the anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced size version of the field with zero-length. And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:15:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE47I-0002tx-8H; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:15:00 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE47H-0002tr-HC for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:14:59 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE47G-0006MZ-9F for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:14:59 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 16:14:58 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAExJqEaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPaAEBAQgKJw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149084341:sNHT194078512" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QEEvPV018665; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:14:57 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QEEukt008566; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:14:56 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05194; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:14:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8AC61.803@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:14:57 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=359; t=1185459297; x=1186323297; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20new=20work=20item=20candidate=20#4=3A=20ext ended=20types |Sender:=20; bh=xDrwWmy+z3WFehKGfXowYL8yAfs6t2eqgyxwKMSU7Ow=; b=ma5vveJPndpJOV/2ztBRNl2ljcfxAh6YaXRa/Pj82AeynxlSLTK+CBwuzZnSmGVyRZpfWmp8 7UcICfk0RpSmarl2O0pZ6MgYqgk1fFJ0B4S+UIKx7Ey8WSnGqZY4CSAF; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Gerhard, > By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like > informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the > semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"? Perhaps we should just export an XML definition with all the fields which we find in IPFIX-INFO? :-) -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:15:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE47I-0002tx-8H; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:15:00 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE47H-0002tr-HC for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:14:59 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE47G-0006MZ-9F for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:14:59 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 16:14:58 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAExJqEaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPaAEBAQgKJw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149084341:sNHT194078512" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QEEvPV018665; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:14:57 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QEEukt008566; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:14:56 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA05194; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:14:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8AC61.803@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:14:57 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=359; t=1185459297; x=1186323297; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20new=20work=20item=20candidate=20#4=3A=20ext ended=20types |Sender:=20; bh=xDrwWmy+z3WFehKGfXowYL8yAfs6t2eqgyxwKMSU7Ow=; b=ma5vveJPndpJOV/2ztBRNl2ljcfxAh6YaXRa/Pj82AeynxlSLTK+CBwuzZnSmGVyRZpfWmp8 7UcICfk0RpSmarl2O0pZ6MgYqgk1fFJ0B4S+UIKx7Ey8WSnGqZY4CSAF; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Gerhard, > By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like > informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the > semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"? Perhaps we should just export an XML definition with all the fields which we find in IPFIX-INFO? :-) -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:36:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4S8-0004QM-NS; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:36:32 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4S7-0004QH-M3 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:36:31 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4S6-0006DR-Sw for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:36:31 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6QEaQHx028583; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:36:26 +0200 Message-ID: <46A8B154.2050806@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:36:04 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.187; host: mx05) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1489396408==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============1489396408== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050505030004010509060304" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050505030004010509060304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Paul, Paul Aitken wrote: >> Paul Aitken wrote: >>> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information >>> Elements? >> >> Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization >> techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing >> inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed >> by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": >> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ > > Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX > requirements, RFC 3917. > > However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG > seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in > Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's > time we began to consider what the best method might be? Just because this issue has not been on the mailing list, this does not mean that nobody in the community has been working on it. For example, we have worked on it in the scope of the HISTORY project focusing on different anonymization techniques and legal issues in Germany. http://www.history-project.net/index.php?show=anonym http://www.history-project.net/anonym/index_e.html http://www7.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~dressler/publications/pik-2006.pdf > So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised > information? Since the original data can not be determined from the > anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data > there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value > itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced > size version of the field with zero-length. There is a difference in anonymized data and non-existing data, e.g. if two anonymized IP addresses are different, you know that the original ones were different as well, and that they belonged to the same subnet (if prefix-preserving techniques are deployed). But if you remove the information, you lose this information. > And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then > surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? Anonymization is very important for academics who always try to convince network operators to give them some real measurement data for their research. Regards, Gerhard -- Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Münz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --------------ms050505030004010509060304 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJdTCC AxUwggJ+oAMCAQICEGU5u1eI8WeEkIox6PdwkFAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDIxMzEwMzMxOVoX DTA4MDIxMzEwMzMxOVowbDEOMAwGA1UEBBMFTXVlbnoxEDAOBgNVBCoTB0dlcmhhcmQxFjAU BgNVBAMTDUdlcmhhcmQgTXVlbnoxMDAuBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWIW11ZW56QGluZm9ybWF0aWsu 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for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:36:31 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4S6-0006DR-Sw for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:36:31 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6QEaQHx028583; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:36:26 +0200 Message-ID: <46A8B154.2050806@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:36:04 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.187; host: mx05) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1489396408==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============1489396408== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms050505030004010509060304" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms050505030004010509060304 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Paul, Paul Aitken wrote: >> Paul Aitken wrote: >>> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information >>> Elements? >> >> Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization >> techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing >> inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed >> by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": >> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ > > Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX > requirements, RFC 3917. > > However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG > seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in > Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's > time we began to consider what the best method might be? Just because this issue has not been on the mailing list, this does not mean that nobody in the community has been working on it. For example, we have worked on it in the scope of the HISTORY project focusing on different anonymization techniques and legal issues in Germany. http://www.history-project.net/index.php?show=anonym http://www.history-project.net/anonym/index_e.html http://www7.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~dressler/publications/pik-2006.pdf > So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised > information? Since the original data can not be determined from the > anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data > there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value > itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced > size version of the field with zero-length. There is a difference in anonymized data and non-existing data, e.g. if two anonymized IP addresses are different, you know that the original ones were different as well, and that they belonged to the same subnet (if prefix-preserving techniques are deployed). But if you remove the information, you lose this information. > And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then > surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? Anonymization is very important for academics who always try to convince network operators to give them some real measurement data for their research. Regards, Gerhard -- Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Münz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --------------ms050505030004010509060304 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJdTCC AxUwggJ+oAMCAQICEGU5u1eI8WeEkIox6PdwkFAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDIxMzEwMzMxOVoX DTA4MDIxMzEwMzMxOVowbDEOMAwGA1UEBBMFTXVlbnoxEDAOBgNVBCoTB0dlcmhhcmQxFjAU BgNVBAMTDUdlcmhhcmQgTXVlbnoxMDAuBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWIW11ZW56QGluZm9ybWF0aWsu 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for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:42:14 -0400 Received: from tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.39.103]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4Xd-0006Lu-Ds for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:42:14 -0400 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgBZO000852; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACECD20AE2B; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D82320AE29; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.68]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgAqi007268; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgAYO010199; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imm0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.151]) by eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgAxx010196; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([129.60.80.56]) by imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEg794020795; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:51 +0900 From: Hitoshi Irino Organization: NTT User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (Windows/20070716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@ietf.org Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, (2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote: > Dear all, > > Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. > >> 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) >> Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. >> Would this be better as an individual draft? > > This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a > flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the author > explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and > collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order > of information elements with an order according to his proposal > and achieved significant performance improvements. > > Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would > be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks like > a very good IPFIX work item. > > Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX > implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if > the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. > > Would any implementor be willing to do so? > If yes, until when would you have results? > > Thanks, > > Juergen A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have any time to talk about the reason of difference of performance. In the slide, ( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf ) I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector receive data records and write the data to file. This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file. The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.) This collector process following steps: 1) read the data record. 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory. 3) write to file from memory. I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter and format of collector. 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs and reduced size encoding applicable IEs) 3) Random order In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements same as NetFlow version 5 fields. These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide. I measured 10 times this test. The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows total time, lower one shows ratio. My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to ipClassOfService) at once. I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide. For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and a collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the counts for processing effects their performance. my presentation shows one of the best case. Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering. Example of effective case writing to files real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) Example of ineffective case when process each Information Element By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for collector. However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope to discuss on WG. thanks, Hitoshi Irino -- Hitoshi Irino NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories 9-11 Midori-cho 3-Chome, Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 Japan Tel: +81-422-59-4403 Fax: +81-422-59-4549 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:42:16 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4Xf-00018Q-E9; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:42:15 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4Xe-000172-DZ for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:42:14 -0400 Received: from tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp ([129.60.39.103]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4Xd-0006Lu-Ds for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:42:14 -0400 Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.114]) by tama55.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgBZO000852; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACECD20AE2B; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.39.100]) by mfs34.rdh.ecl.ntt.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D82320AE29; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:11 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.68]) by nttmail3.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgAqi007268; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgAYO010199; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (imm0.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp [129.60.5.151]) by eclscan2.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEgAxx010196; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([129.60.80.56]) by imm.m.ecl.ntt.co.jp (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id l6QEg794020795; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:10 +0900 (JST) Message-ID: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:51 +0900 From: Hitoshi Irino Organization: NTT User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.5 (Windows/20070716) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juergen Quittek , ipfix@ietf.org Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 287c806b254c6353fcb09ee0e53bbc5e Cc: X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, (2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote: > Dear all, > > Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. > >> 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) >> Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. >> Would this be better as an individual draft? > > This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a > flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the author > explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and > collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order > of information elements with an order according to his proposal > and achieved significant performance improvements. > > Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would > be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks like > a very good IPFIX work item. > > Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX > implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if > the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. > > Would any implementor be willing to do so? > If yes, until when would you have results? > > Thanks, > > Juergen A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have any time to talk about the reason of difference of performance. In the slide, ( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf ) I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector receive data records and write the data to file. This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file. The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.) This collector process following steps: 1) read the data record. 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory. 3) write to file from memory. I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter and format of collector. 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs and reduced size encoding applicable IEs) 3) Random order In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements same as NetFlow version 5 fields. These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide. I measured 10 times this test. The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows total time, lower one shows ratio. My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to ipClassOfService) at once. I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide. For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and a collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the counts for processing effects their performance. my presentation shows one of the best case. Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering. Example of effective case writing to files real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) Example of ineffective case when process each Information Element By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for collector. However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope to discuss on WG. thanks, Hitoshi Irino -- Hitoshi Irino NTT Network Service Systems Laboratories 9-11 Midori-cho 3-Chome, Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 Japan Tel: +81-422-59-4403 Fax: +81-422-59-4549 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:45:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4bA-0002wA-9A; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:45:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4b9-0002w1-Kh for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:45:51 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4b8-0007ko-Aw for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:45:51 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 16:45:49 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAIlQqEaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149088993:sNHT29877264" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QEjnJ2011848; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:45:49 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QEjnkt023485; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:45:49 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07981; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:45:47 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8B39D.8040208@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:45:49 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> <46A8B154.2050806@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A8B154.2050806@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2636; t=1185461149; x=1186325149; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator- model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=RKja3qI9UFzgLiOrv3ci5jXL8RBLyB0DCbHaihAtX+M=; b=Oiw8fJ7QPfQo7Qgf7+Dn1awONAMSZlXuvHkt/JN1MQCBuZ9D9eke6EMbviUXtoGzrTNB9s2d JcM/HA9P68AQmCETxMdU17OQG+A4R+RBc5c/UARKf7JUE5EeHFFjXQfG; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Gerhard, These are all very points. Thank you for sharing them here. Perhaps you should write an IPFIX anonymisation draft? :-) > Paul Aitken wrote: >>> Paul Aitken wrote: >>>> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information >>>> Elements? >>> Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization >>> techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing >>> inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed >>> by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": >>> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ >> Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX >> requirements, RFC 3917. >> >> However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG >> seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in >> Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's >> time we began to consider what the best method might be? > > Just because this issue has not been on the mailing list, this does not > mean that nobody in the community has been working on it. For example, > we have worked on it in the scope of the HISTORY project focusing on > different anonymization techniques and legal issues in Germany. > http://www.history-project.net/index.php?show=anonym > http://www.history-project.net/anonym/index_e.html > http://www7.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~dressler/publications/pik-2006.pdf > >> So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised >> information? Since the original data can not be determined from the >> anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data >> there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value >> itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced >> size version of the field with zero-length. > > There is a difference in anonymized data and non-existing data, e.g. if > two anonymized IP addresses are different, you know that the original > ones were different as well, and that they belonged to the same subnet > (if prefix-preserving techniques are deployed). But if you remove the > information, you lose this information. > >> And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then >> surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? > > Anonymization is very important for academics who always try to convince > network operators to give them some real measurement data for their > research. > > Regards, > Gerhard -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 10:45:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4bA-0002wA-9A; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:45:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4b9-0002w1-Kh for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:45:51 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4b8-0007ko-Aw for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:45:51 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 16:45:49 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAIlQqEaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149088993:sNHT29877264" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QEjnJ2011848; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:45:49 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QEjnkt023485; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:45:49 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA07981; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:45:47 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8B39D.8040208@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:45:49 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> <46A8B154.2050806@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A8B154.2050806@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=2636; t=1185461149; x=1186325149; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator- model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=RKja3qI9UFzgLiOrv3ci5jXL8RBLyB0DCbHaihAtX+M=; b=Oiw8fJ7QPfQo7Qgf7+Dn1awONAMSZlXuvHkt/JN1MQCBuZ9D9eke6EMbviUXtoGzrTNB9s2d JcM/HA9P68AQmCETxMdU17OQG+A4R+RBc5c/UARKf7JUE5EeHFFjXQfG; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Gerhard, These are all very points. Thank you for sharing them here. Perhaps you should write an IPFIX anonymisation draft? :-) > Paul Aitken wrote: >>> Paul Aitken wrote: >>>> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information >>>> Elements? >>> Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization >>> techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing >>> inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed >>> by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": >>> http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ >> Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX >> requirements, RFC 3917. >> >> However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG >> seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in >> Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's >> time we began to consider what the best method might be? > > Just because this issue has not been on the mailing list, this does not > mean that nobody in the community has been working on it. For example, > we have worked on it in the scope of the HISTORY project focusing on > different anonymization techniques and legal issues in Germany. > http://www.history-project.net/index.php?show=anonym > http://www.history-project.net/anonym/index_e.html > http://www7.informatik.uni-erlangen.de/~dressler/publications/pik-2006.pdf > >> So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised >> information? Since the original data can not be determined from the >> anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data >> there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value >> itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced >> size version of the field with zero-length. > > There is a difference in anonymized data and non-existing data, e.g. if > two anonymized IP addresses are different, you know that the original > ones were different as well, and that they belonged to the same subnet > (if prefix-preserving techniques are deployed). But if you remove the > information, you lose this information. > >> And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then >> surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? > > Anonymization is very important for academics who always try to convince > network operators to give them some real measurement data for their > research. > > Regards, > Gerhard -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:02:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4r1-0005BO-Kg; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:02:15 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4r0-0005B4-BR for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:02:14 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4qz-0006z0-Qx for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:02:14 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 17:01:57 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAAtUqEaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149091360:sNHT7737832650" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QF1vv6017554; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:01:57 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QF1ukt000966; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:01:56 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09319; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:01:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8B761.5060107@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:01:53 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Irino Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1959; t=1185462117; x=1186326117; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20new=20work=20item=20candidate=20#6=3A=20ord er=20of=20information=20elements |Sender:=20; bh=t8DbpjlIT2Xh3O+ap7yJh/EpTNpMkTw0/H0PyCPFGgo=; b=DD0yKcrj2CLdsobSFCqh+AVqjFaTufoEyq0kmp6TTD/yc7eT/B1pJDmLk/peAeEspL5BXtXX 5uOe3yXUH1TVga5oRbfGEhngZhMZ+LRwnAzEQt6gtQAMt+LAIcFkgyof; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hitoshi-san, > By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and > operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my > draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for > collector. > > However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are > not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these > implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is > valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' > implementations. Cisco's new Flexible NetFlow (http://cisco.com/go/fnf) allows users to configure which fields are monitored for each individual cache. Obviously this affects the export templates - but since the user configures which fields are in the cache (and not the export templates), the router is able to store and export the fields in the most optimal way. Actually, I think that changing what is monitored by (re)configuring the export template(s) is exactly the wrong way to go. Rather, the user should configure what they want to monitor and the export template(s) should be changed by the Exporting Process to support the fields that are being monitored. If your research proves a way to optimise the export, then this model also allows the Exporting Process to optimise the exported data independently of the user's configuration. So it's definitely a big win. > Therefore I've thought a reference order should be defined as Informational. If other groups are able to show similar improvements, then I think we will all want to adopt your ideas. So I hope that everyone will follow Jeurgen's request: I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:02:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4r1-0005BO-Kg; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:02:15 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4r0-0005B4-BR for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:02:14 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4qz-0006z0-Qx for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:02:14 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 17:01:57 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAAtUqEaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaAsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149091360:sNHT7737832650" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QF1vv6017554; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:01:57 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QF1ukt000966; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:01:56 GMT Received: from [10.89.21.61] (rcdn-vpn-cluster-2-316.cisco.com [10.89.21.61]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA09319; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:01:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8B761.5060107@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:01:53 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Irino Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1959; t=1185462117; x=1186326117; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20new=20work=20item=20candidate=20#6=3A=20ord er=20of=20information=20elements |Sender:=20; bh=t8DbpjlIT2Xh3O+ap7yJh/EpTNpMkTw0/H0PyCPFGgo=; b=DD0yKcrj2CLdsobSFCqh+AVqjFaTufoEyq0kmp6TTD/yc7eT/B1pJDmLk/peAeEspL5BXtXX 5uOe3yXUH1TVga5oRbfGEhngZhMZ+LRwnAzEQt6gtQAMt+LAIcFkgyof; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4adaf050708fb13be3316a9eee889caa Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hitoshi-san, > By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and > operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my > draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for > collector. > > However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are > not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these > implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is > valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' > implementations. Cisco's new Flexible NetFlow (http://cisco.com/go/fnf) allows users to configure which fields are monitored for each individual cache. Obviously this affects the export templates - but since the user configures which fields are in the cache (and not the export templates), the router is able to store and export the fields in the most optimal way. Actually, I think that changing what is monitored by (re)configuring the export template(s) is exactly the wrong way to go. Rather, the user should configure what they want to monitor and the export template(s) should be changed by the Exporting Process to support the fields that are being monitored. If your research proves a way to optimise the export, then this model also allows the Exporting Process to optimise the exported data independently of the user's configuration. So it's definitely a big win. > Therefore I've thought a reference order should be defined as Informational. If other groups are able to show similar improvements, then I think we will all want to adopt your ideas. So I hope that everyone will follow Jeurgen's request: I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:04:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4tE-0000tV-SZ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:04:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4tD-0000r9-1E for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:04:31 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4tB-0008Nu-J2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:04:31 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QF4QY13467; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:04:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.82.241.128] (rtp-vpn2-384.cisco.com [10.82.241.128]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QF4OQ13402; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:04:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A8B7F7.9050008@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:04:23 -0500 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a0494a0224ca59418dd8f92694c1fdb Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1988918953==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1988918953== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080802010407020004090407" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080802010407020004090407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I have exactly the same concern. Regards, Benoit. > Dear all, > > I'm undecided about this draft. > > On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow > describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my > impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as > claimed in the introduction of the draft: > > ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific > configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which > type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for > users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. > Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on > them. ... > > In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data > requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be > enough to display values correctly. Considering > informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation > of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or > not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical > knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and > processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with > specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific > purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE information. > > By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like > informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the > semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"? > > Regards, > Gerhard > > > Juergen Quittek wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >> >> >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>> >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >> elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers. >> >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. >> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >> >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >> method when IPFIX records are stored. >> >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > --------------080802010407020004090407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

I have exactly the same concern.

Regards, Benoit.
Dear all,

I'm undecided about this draft.

On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow
describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my
impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as
claimed in the introduction of the draft:

   ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific
   configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which
   type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for
   users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements.
   Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on
   them. ...

In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data
requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be
enough to display values correctly. Considering
informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation
of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or
not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical
knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and
processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with
specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific
purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE information.

By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like
informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the
semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"?

Regards,
Gerhard


Juergen Quittek wrote:
  
Dear all,

Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by
draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

    
4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)
   Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to
   specify what operations make sense for an IE.
   Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format.
   Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF  71.
      
It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information
elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers.

It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the
data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen
if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the
collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array.
With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately.

The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this
method when IPFIX records are stored.

Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol?
Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item?
Please have a look at the draft and send your comments.

Thanks,

    Juergen



_______________________________________________
IPFIX mailing list
IPFIX@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

--------------080802010407020004090407-- --===============1988918953== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1988918953==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:04:33 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4tE-0000tV-SZ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:04:32 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4tD-0000r9-1E for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:04:31 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE4tB-0008Nu-J2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:04:31 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QF4QY13467; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:04:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.82.241.128] (rtp-vpn2-384.cisco.com [10.82.241.128]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QF4OQ13402; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:04:24 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A8B7F7.9050008@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:04:23 -0500 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A882D0.4050700@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7a0494a0224ca59418dd8f92694c1fdb Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1988918953==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1988918953== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------080802010407020004090407" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080802010407020004090407 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, I have exactly the same concern. Regards, Benoit. > Dear all, > > I'm undecided about this draft. > > On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow > describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my > impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as > claimed in the introduction of the draft: > > ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific > configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which > type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for > users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. > Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on > them. ... > > In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data > requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be > enough to display values correctly. Considering > informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation > of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or > not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical > knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and > processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with > specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific > purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE information. > > By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like > informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the > semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"? > > Regards, > Gerhard > > > Juergen Quittek wrote: > >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >> >> >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>> >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >> elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers. >> >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. >> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >> >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >> method when IPFIX records are stored. >> >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > --------------080802010407020004090407 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

I have exactly the same concern.

Regards, Benoit.
Dear all,

I'm undecided about this draft.

On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow
describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my
impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as
claimed in the introduction of the draft:

   ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific
   configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which
   type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for
   users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements.
   Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on
   them. ...

In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data
requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be
enough to display values correctly. Considering
informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation
of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or
not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical
knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and
processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with
specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific
purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE information.

By the way: Have you considered an additional IE like
informationElementDescription holding an octet string describing the
semantic of the IE "in human-readable English"?

Regards,
Gerhard


Juergen Quittek wrote:
  
Dear all,

Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by
draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

    
4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)
   Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to
   specify what operations make sense for an IE.
   Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format.
   Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF  71.
      
It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information
elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers.

It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the
data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen
if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the
collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array.
With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately.

The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this
method when IPFIX records are stored.

Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol?
Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item?
Please have a look at the draft and send your comments.

Thanks,

    Juergen



_______________________________________________
IPFIX mailing list
IPFIX@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

--------------080802010407020004090407-- --===============1988918953== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1988918953==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:18:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE56A-0003JW-71; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:17:54 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE568-0003HG-M2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:17:52 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE567-0007SC-AT for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:17:52 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QFHoC11900; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:17:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.82.241.128] (rtp-vpn2-384.cisco.com [10.82.241.128]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QFHlQ11831; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:17:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A8BB1B.1000101@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:17:47 -0500 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Irino Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d49da3f50144c227c0d2fac65d3953e6 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1425890092==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1425890092== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010200030500060207060503" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010200030500060207060503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, During the last IETF, the draft was presented and my initial thought was: it makes sense to put the variable length I.E. at the end of record. So we could add a few sentences in the implementation guideline about it. Now, when I look at the slide 4 of http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf, I see a gain in time that varies from 22 to 86%. Pretty impressive. So if this gain is confirmed, then this is a very interesting draft for the working group, which could be experimental to start with... I'm also happy that Irino-san clarifies the scope the draft below Example of effective case writing to files real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) Example of ineffective case when process each Information Element So the big gain is when writing into a file, while the gain is lower (actually no sure if there is one) when writing into a DB Regards, Benoit. > Dear all, > > (2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. >> >>> 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) >>> Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. >>> Would this be better as an individual draft? >> >> This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a >> flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the author >> explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and >> collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order >> of information elements with an order according to his proposal >> and achieved significant performance improvements. >> >> Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would >> be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks >> like >> a very good IPFIX work item. >> >> Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX >> implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if >> the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. >> >> Would any implementor be willing to do so? >> If yes, until when would you have results? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen > > A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result > when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have > any time to talk about the reason of difference of performance. > > In the slide, > ( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf ) > I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector > receive data records and write the data to file. > This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file. > The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full > size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.) > > This collector process following steps: > 1) read the data record. > 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory. > 3) write to file from memory. > > I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter > and format of collector. > 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5 > 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs > and reduced size encoding applicable IEs) > 3) Random order > In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements > same as NetFlow version 5 fields. > These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide. > > I measured 10 times this test. > The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows > total time, lower one shows ratio. > > My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information > Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by > suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my > collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to > ipClassOfService) at once. > > I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide. > For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and a > collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing > means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In > the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random > order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the > counts for processing effects their performance. > my presentation shows one of the best case. > > Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering. > > Example of effective case > writing to files > real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) > > Example of ineffective case > when process each Information Element > > By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and > operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my > draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for > collector. > However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are > not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these > implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is > valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' > implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be > defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's > performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope > to discuss on WG. > > thanks, > Hitoshi Irino > --------------010200030500060207060503 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

During the last IETF, the draft was presented and my initial thought was: it makes sense to put the variable length I.E. at the end of record. So we could add a few sentences in the implementation guideline about it.
Now, when I look at the slide 4 of http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf, I see a gain in time that varies from 22 to 86%. Pretty impressive.
So if this gain is confirmed, then this is a very interesting draft for the working group, which could be experimental to start with...

I'm also happy that Irino-san clarifies the scope the draft below
 Example of effective case
 writing to files
 real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data)

Example of ineffective case
 when process each Information Element
So the big gain is when writing into a file, while the gain is lower (actually no sure if there is one) when writing into a DB

Regards, Benoit.
Dear all,

(2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote:
Dear all,

Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by
draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt.

6. Order of Information Elements (Irino)
   Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain.
   Would this be better as an individual draft?

This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a
flow record.  At the very brief presentation at our session, the author
explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and
collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order
of information elements with an order according to his proposal
and achieved significant performance improvements.

Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would
be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks like
a very good IPFIX work item.

Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX
implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if
the improvement is the same for his/her implementations.

Would any implementor be willing to do so?
If yes, until when would you have results?

Thanks,

    Juergen

A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result
when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have any time to talk about the reason of difference of performance.

In the slide,
( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf )
I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector
receive data records and write the data to file.
This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file.
The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full
size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.)

This collector process following steps:
 1) read the data record.
 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory.
 3) write to file from memory.

I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter
and format of collector.
 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5
 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs
and reduced size encoding applicable IEs)
 3) Random order
In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements
same as NetFlow version 5 fields.
These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide.

I measured 10 times this test.
The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows
total time, lower one shows ratio.

My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information
Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by
suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my
collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to
ipClassOfService) at once.

I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide.
For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and a
collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing
means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In
the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random
order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the
counts for processing effects their performance.
my presentation shows one of the best case.

Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering.

Example of effective case
 writing to files
 real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data)

Example of ineffective case
 when process each Information Element

By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and
operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my
draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for
collector.
However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are
not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be
defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's
performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope
to discuss on WG.

thanks,
Hitoshi Irino


--------------010200030500060207060503-- --===============1425890092== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1425890092==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:18:04 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE56A-0003JW-71; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:17:54 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE568-0003HG-M2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:17:52 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE567-0007SC-AT for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:17:52 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QFHoC11900; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:17:50 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.82.241.128] (rtp-vpn2-384.cisco.com [10.82.241.128]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QFHlQ11831; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:17:48 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A8BB1B.1000101@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:17:47 -0500 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Irino Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d49da3f50144c227c0d2fac65d3953e6 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1425890092==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1425890092== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------010200030500060207060503" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010200030500060207060503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all, During the last IETF, the draft was presented and my initial thought was: it makes sense to put the variable length I.E. at the end of record. So we could add a few sentences in the implementation guideline about it. Now, when I look at the slide 4 of http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf, I see a gain in time that varies from 22 to 86%. Pretty impressive. So if this gain is confirmed, then this is a very interesting draft for the working group, which could be experimental to start with... I'm also happy that Irino-san clarifies the scope the draft below Example of effective case writing to files real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) Example of ineffective case when process each Information Element So the big gain is when writing into a file, while the gain is lower (actually no sure if there is one) when writing into a DB Regards, Benoit. > Dear all, > > (2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. >> >>> 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) >>> Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. >>> Would this be better as an individual draft? >> >> This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a >> flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the author >> explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and >> collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order >> of information elements with an order according to his proposal >> and achieved significant performance improvements. >> >> Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would >> be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks >> like >> a very good IPFIX work item. >> >> Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX >> implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if >> the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. >> >> Would any implementor be willing to do so? >> If yes, until when would you have results? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen > > A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result > when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have > any time to talk about the reason of difference of performance. > > In the slide, > ( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf ) > I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector > receive data records and write the data to file. > This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file. > The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full > size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.) > > This collector process following steps: > 1) read the data record. > 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory. > 3) write to file from memory. > > I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter > and format of collector. > 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5 > 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs > and reduced size encoding applicable IEs) > 3) Random order > In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements > same as NetFlow version 5 fields. > These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide. > > I measured 10 times this test. > The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows > total time, lower one shows ratio. > > My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information > Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by > suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my > collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to > ipClassOfService) at once. > > I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide. > For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and a > collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing > means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In > the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random > order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the > counts for processing effects their performance. > my presentation shows one of the best case. > > Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering. > > Example of effective case > writing to files > real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) > > Example of ineffective case > when process each Information Element > > By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and > operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my > draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for > collector. > However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are > not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these > implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is > valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' > implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be > defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's > performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope > to discuss on WG. > > thanks, > Hitoshi Irino > --------------010200030500060207060503 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear all,

During the last IETF, the draft was presented and my initial thought was: it makes sense to put the variable length I.E. at the end of record. So we could add a few sentences in the implementation guideline about it.
Now, when I look at the slide 4 of http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf, I see a gain in time that varies from 22 to 86%. Pretty impressive.
So if this gain is confirmed, then this is a very interesting draft for the working group, which could be experimental to start with...

I'm also happy that Irino-san clarifies the scope the draft below
 Example of effective case
 writing to files
 real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data)

Example of ineffective case
 when process each Information Element
So the big gain is when writing into a file, while the gain is lower (actually no sure if there is one) when writing into a DB

Regards, Benoit.
Dear all,

(2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote:
Dear all,

Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by
draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt.

6. Order of Information Elements (Irino)
   Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain.
   Would this be better as an individual draft?

This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a
flow record.  At the very brief presentation at our session, the author
explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and
collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order
of information elements with an order according to his proposal
and achieved significant performance improvements.

Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would
be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks like
a very good IPFIX work item.

Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX
implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if
the improvement is the same for his/her implementations.

Would any implementor be willing to do so?
If yes, until when would you have results?

Thanks,

    Juergen

A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result
when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have any time to talk about the reason of difference of performance.

In the slide,
( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf )
I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector
receive data records and write the data to file.
This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file.
The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full
size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.)

This collector process following steps:
 1) read the data record.
 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory.
 3) write to file from memory.

I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter
and format of collector.
 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5
 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs
and reduced size encoding applicable IEs)
 3) Random order
In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements
same as NetFlow version 5 fields.
These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide.

I measured 10 times this test.
The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows
total time, lower one shows ratio.

My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information
Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by
suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my
collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to
ipClassOfService) at once.

I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide.
For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and a
collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing
means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In
the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random
order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the
counts for processing effects their performance.
my presentation shows one of the best case.

Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering.

Example of effective case
 writing to files
 real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data)

Example of ineffective case
 when process each Information Element

By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration and
operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my
draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for
collector.
However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are
not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be
defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's
performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope
to discuss on WG.

thanks,
Hitoshi Irino


--------------010200030500060207060503-- --===============1425890092== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1425890092==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:27:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE5Ez-00045y-7Z; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:27:01 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE5Ex-00045q-HT for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:26:59 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE5Ew-0007lb-DN for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:26:59 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6QFQgVe068161; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:26:43 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:26:44 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 In-Reply-To: <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> References: <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070726234801.4975.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:26:44 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul-san and Gerhard-san, Paul-san, thank you for big comments about mediator draft. I will reply your comment one step at a time. Gerhard-san, thank you for your notification about reference. I think that anonymisation is good solution to prevent to violate privacy information. Even if the original data can not be determined from the anonymised data, we can monitor the traffic trend, as follows. For example, - How long does each flow continue the session? - How many packets does each flow send? - Proportion of heavy flow or heavy customer. - Proportion of short flow or one packet flow. - How many flows does each network prefix included? To do it, anonymization technique needs to preserve prefix, just like Gerhard reference. And furthermore, this data becomes useful data by comparing between past data and simulating future data. And, pairs of comparison are considered several type. - each peering points - mobile network and broadband network - tariff system: fixed amount rate and metered rate : Above data can not be measured, if associated field becomes zero or removal. Best Regards, Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:12:51 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Gerhard, > > > Just a small comment: > > > > Paul Aitken wrote: > >>> Modification of the value of Information Element > >>> > >>> This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements > >>> according to instructions configured by the user. > >>> > >>> For example, this function enables us to overwrite private > >>> information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP > >>> address and port number is sensitive private information. In the > >>> case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these > >>> Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. > >>> In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information > >>> Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can > >>> anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which > >>> Information Elements are anonymized. For example, > >>> "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have > >>> been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". > >>> The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. > >> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information > >> Elements? > > > > Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization > > techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing > > inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed > > by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": > > http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ > > Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX > requirements, RFC 3917. > > However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG > seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in > Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's > time we began to consider what the best method might be? > > So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised > information? Since the original data can not be determined from the > anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data > there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value > itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced > size version of the field with zero-length. > > And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then > surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 11:27:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE5Ez-00045y-7Z; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:27:01 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE5Ex-00045q-HT for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:26:59 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE5Ew-0007lb-DN for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 11:26:59 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6QFQgVe068161; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:26:43 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:26:44 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 In-Reply-To: <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> References: <46A86C0B.90209@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46A8ABE3.4000806@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070726234801.4975.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:26:44 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Paul-san and Gerhard-san, Paul-san, thank you for big comments about mediator draft. I will reply your comment one step at a time. Gerhard-san, thank you for your notification about reference. I think that anonymisation is good solution to prevent to violate privacy information. Even if the original data can not be determined from the anonymised data, we can monitor the traffic trend, as follows. For example, - How long does each flow continue the session? - How many packets does each flow send? - Proportion of heavy flow or heavy customer. - Proportion of short flow or one packet flow. - How many flows does each network prefix included? To do it, anonymization technique needs to preserve prefix, just like Gerhard reference. And furthermore, this data becomes useful data by comparing between past data and simulating future data. And, pairs of comparison are considered several type. - each peering points - mobile network and broadband network - tariff system: fixed amount rate and metered rate : Above data can not be measured, if associated field becomes zero or removal. Best Regards, Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:12:51 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Gerhard, > > > Just a small comment: > > > > Paul Aitken wrote: > >>> Modification of the value of Information Element > >>> > >>> This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements > >>> according to instructions configured by the user. > >>> > >>> For example, this function enables us to overwrite private > >>> information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP > >>> address and port number is sensitive private information. In the > >>> case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these > >>> Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. > >>> In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information > >>> Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can > >>> anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which > >>> Information Elements are anonymized. For example, > >>> "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have > >>> been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". > >>> The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. > >> Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information > >> Elements? > > > > Instead of removing IP addresses you might want to apply anonymization > > techniques which preserve prefix information while still preventing > > inference of the original addresses. E.g. see CryptoPAN already deployed > > by many Netflow tools like "flow-tools": > > http://www.cc.gatech.edu/computing/Networking/projects/cryptopan/ > > Indeed, anonymization is mentioned in section 6.7 of the IPFIX > requirements, RFC 3917. > > However, as far as I can see it's not something that anyone in the WG > seems to have worked on until now. But since now it appears both in > Brian's file draft and in Kobayshi-san's mediator draft, perhaps it's > time we began to consider what the best method might be? > > So my question is: what is the value of storing or forwarding anonymised > information? Since the original data can not be determined from the > anoymised data, it only serves to indicate that there was some data > there which was anonymised (ie, the anonymised data is of no value > itself) - and I can think of a better way to do that, eg send a reduced > size version of the field with zero-length. > > And if it's not necessary to indicate that the field was there then > surely the best way to anoymise it is to remove it entirely? > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 12:37:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE6LL-0007hQ-01; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:37:39 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE6LK-0007hK-6k for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:37:38 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE6LJ-0002B4-0D for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:37:38 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:37:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:37:13 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5GwAScO8Q References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Juergen Quittek" , "Nevil Brownlee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 16:37:15.0970 (UTC) FILETIME=[39CCF220:01C7CFA3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4da339c42fe5be09fa120bb0fcc4a575 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0194419872==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0194419872== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Juergen and Nevil, =20 Work item #3 Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when = exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So = it's a function of mediation. =20 Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how = to map a private IE on a standard one?=20 =20 Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use = cases and requirements. =20 Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. At this step, the functions required for interoperability between = mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define = the interoperability requirements prior to re charter. =20 Regards Emile =20 =20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >=20 > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > elements by using option records that map data types to element > identifiers. >=20 > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > data type of received information elements. This may in particular = happen > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet = array. > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >=20 > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using = this > method when IPFIX records are stored. >=20 > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

HI Juergen and Nevil,

 

Work item = #3

Storing IPFIX records in files = requires interoperability only when exchanging these files with some one else or some other = application. So it's a function of mediation.

 

Work item #4 points indirectly = to a major point concern for telcos: how to map a = private IE on a standard one?

 

Work item #5 defines mediator = arch & functions. Then it gives many use cases and = requirements.

 

Work items #3, #4 and #5 give = many functions a mediator may implement.

At this step, the functions = required for interoperability between mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity = to define the interoperability requirements prior to re = charter.

 

Regards

Emile

 

 

> -----Message = d'origine-----

> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de]

> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 = 08:28

> =C0 : = ipfix@ietf.org

> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: = extended types

>

> Dear all,

>

> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work = item is described by

> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

>

> > = 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)

> >=A0=A0=A0 Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to

> >=A0=A0=A0 specify what operations make sense for an = IE.

> >=A0=A0=A0 Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File = Format.

> >=A0=A0=A0 Milestones:=A0 WG LC = after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF=A0 = 71.

>

> It is a method for assigning data types = to unknown IPFIX information

> elements by = using option records that map data types to element

> identifiers.

>

> It can be applied in cases where an = IPFIX collector does not know the

> data type of = received information elements. This may in particular = happen

> if enterprise = specific elements are used. Without this information = the

> collector = would treat these elements as if they were of type octet = array.

> With this information it may be able to = treat them more appropriately.

>

> The current version of the IPFIX file = format draft recommends using this

> method when = IPFIX records are stored.

>

> Do you think this is a useful extension = of the IPFIX protocol?

> Do you think we should accept this as an = IPFIX work item?

> Please have a look at the draft and send = your comments.

>

> Thanks,

>

>=A0=A0=A0=A0 Juergen

>

>

>

> = _______________________________________________<= /p>

> IPFIX mailing = list

> = IPFIX@ietf.org

> = https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

=
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263-- --===============0194419872== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============0194419872==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 12:37:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE6LL-0007hQ-01; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:37:39 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE6LK-0007hK-6k for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:37:38 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE6LJ-0002B4-0D for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:37:38 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:37:15 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:37:13 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5GwAScO8Q References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Juergen Quittek" , "Nevil Brownlee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 16:37:15.0970 (UTC) FILETIME=[39CCF220:01C7CFA3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4da339c42fe5be09fa120bb0fcc4a575 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0194419872==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0194419872== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable HI Juergen and Nevil, =20 Work item #3 Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when = exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So = it's a function of mediation. =20 Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how = to map a private IE on a standard one?=20 =20 Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use = cases and requirements. =20 Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. At this step, the functions required for interoperability between = mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define = the interoperability requirements prior to re charter. =20 Regards Emile =20 =20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >=20 > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > elements by using option records that map data types to element > identifiers. >=20 > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > data type of received information elements. This may in particular = happen > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet = array. > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >=20 > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using = this > method when IPFIX records are stored. >=20 > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

HI Juergen and Nevil,

 

Work item = #3

Storing IPFIX records in files = requires interoperability only when exchanging these files with some one else or some other = application. So it's a function of mediation.

 

Work item #4 points indirectly = to a major point concern for telcos: how to map a = private IE on a standard one?

 

Work item #5 defines mediator = arch & functions. Then it gives many use cases and = requirements.

 

Work items #3, #4 and #5 give = many functions a mediator may implement.

At this step, the functions = required for interoperability between mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity = to define the interoperability requirements prior to re = charter.

 

Regards

Emile

 

 

> -----Message = d'origine-----

> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de]

> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 = 08:28

> =C0 : = ipfix@ietf.org

> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: = extended types

>

> Dear all,

>

> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work = item is described by

> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

>

> > = 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)

> >=A0=A0=A0 Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to

> >=A0=A0=A0 specify what operations make sense for an = IE.

> >=A0=A0=A0 Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File = Format.

> >=A0=A0=A0 Milestones:=A0 WG LC = after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF=A0 = 71.

>

> It is a method for assigning data types = to unknown IPFIX information

> elements by = using option records that map data types to element

> identifiers.

>

> It can be applied in cases where an = IPFIX collector does not know the

> data type of = received information elements. This may in particular = happen

> if enterprise = specific elements are used. Without this information = the

> collector = would treat these elements as if they were of type octet = array.

> With this information it may be able to = treat them more appropriately.

>

> The current version of the IPFIX file = format draft recommends using this

> method when = IPFIX records are stored.

>

> Do you think this is a useful extension = of the IPFIX protocol?

> Do you think we should accept this as an = IPFIX work item?

> Please have a look at the draft and send = your comments.

>

> Thanks,

>

>=A0=A0=A0=A0 Juergen

>

>

>

> = _______________________________________________<= /p>

> IPFIX mailing = list

> = IPFIX@ietf.org

> = https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

=
------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFA3.42576263-- --===============0194419872== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============0194419872==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 13:42:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7Le-0003kt-KZ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:42:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7Lc-0003kn-CS for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:42:00 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7La-00052a-MI for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:42:00 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QHfv524426; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:41:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.82.224.112] (rtp-vpn1-112.cisco.com [10.82.224.112]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QHftQ24348; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:41:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:41:54 -0500 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Subject: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 43ca87c8fcef5d9f6e966e1c3917103e Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0542245692==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0542245692== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050301020608020707050905" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050301020608020707050905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by av-tac-bru.cisco.com id l6QHfv524426 Hi Emile, > > HI Juergen and Nevil, > > =20 > > Work item #3 > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when=20 > exchanging these files with some one else or some other application.=20 > So it's a function of mediation. > > =20 > > Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos:=20 > how to map a private IE on a standard one? > I'm not sure this draft answers this question. Regards, Benoit. > > =20 > > Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use=20 > cases and requirements. > > =20 > > Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. > > At this step, the functions required for interoperability between=20 > mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to=20 > define the interoperability requirements prior to re charter. > > =20 > > Regards > > Emile > > =20 > > =20 > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > > > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > > > =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > > > Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > > > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. > > > > > > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > > > > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > > > > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > > > > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > > > > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > > > > > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > > > elements by using option records that map data types to element > > > identifiers. > > > > > > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > > > data type of received information elements. This may in particular ha= ppen > > > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information th= e > > > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet ar= ray. > > > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. > > > > > > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using t= his > > > method when IPFIX records are stored. > > > > > > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > > > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > > > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Juergen > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > IPFIX mailing list > > > IPFIX@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > =20 --------------050301020608020707050905 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Emile,

HI Juergen and Nevil,

 

Work item #3

Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a function of mediation.

 

Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how to map a private IE on a standard one?

I'm not sure this draft answers this question.

Regards, Benoit.

 

Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use cases and requirements.

 

Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement.

At this step, the functions required for interoperability between mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the interoperability requirements prior to re charter.

 

Regards

Emile

 

 

> -----Message d'origine-----

> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de]

> Envoyé : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28

> À : ipfix@ietf.org

> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types

>

> Dear all,

>

> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by

> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

>

> > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)

> >    Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to

> >    specify what operations make sense for an IE.

> >    Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format.

> >    Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF  71.

>

> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information

> elements by using option records that map data types to element

> identifiers.

>

> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the

> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen

> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the

> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array.

> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately.

>

> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this

> method when IPFIX records are stored.

>

> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol?

> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item?

> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments.

>

> Thanks,

>

>     Juergen

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> IPFIX mailing list

> IPFIX@ietf.org

> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix


_______________________________________________
IPFIX mailing list
IPFIX@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

--------------050301020608020707050905-- --===============0542245692== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============0542245692==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 13:42:08 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7Le-0003kt-KZ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:42:02 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7Lc-0003kn-CS for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:42:00 -0400 Received: from odd-brew.cisco.com ([144.254.15.119] helo=av-tac-bru.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7La-00052a-MI for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:42:00 -0400 X-TACSUNS: Virus Scanned Received: from strange-brew.cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by av-tac-bru.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QHfv524426; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:41:57 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.82.224.112] (rtp-vpn1-112.cisco.com [10.82.224.112]) by strange-brew.cisco.com (8.11.7p3+Sun/8.11.7) with ESMTP id l6QHftQ24348; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:41:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 12:41:54 -0500 From: Benoit Claise User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Subject: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 43ca87c8fcef5d9f6e966e1c3917103e Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0542245692==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0542245692== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050301020608020707050905" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050301020608020707050905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by av-tac-bru.cisco.com id l6QHfv524426 Hi Emile, > > HI Juergen and Nevil, > > =20 > > Work item #3 > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when=20 > exchanging these files with some one else or some other application.=20 > So it's a function of mediation. > > =20 > > Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos:=20 > how to map a private IE on a standard one? > I'm not sure this draft answers this question. Regards, Benoit. > > =20 > > Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use=20 > cases and requirements. > > =20 > > Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. > > At this step, the functions required for interoperability between=20 > mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to=20 > define the interoperability requirements prior to re charter. > > =20 > > Regards > > Emile > > =20 > > =20 > > > -----Message d'origine----- > > > De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > > > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > > > =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > > > Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types > > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > > > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. > > > > > > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > > > > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > > > > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > > > > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > > > > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. > > > > > > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > > > elements by using option records that map data types to element > > > identifiers. > > > > > > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > > > data type of received information elements. This may in particular ha= ppen > > > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information th= e > > > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet ar= ray. > > > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. > > > > > > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using t= his > > > method when IPFIX records are stored. > > > > > > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > > > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > > > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > Juergen > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > IPFIX mailing list > > > IPFIX@ietf.org > > > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > > -----------------------------------------------------------------------= - > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > =20 --------------050301020608020707050905 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Emile,

HI Juergen and Nevil,

 

Work item #3

Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a function of mediation.

 

Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how to map a private IE on a standard one?

I'm not sure this draft answers this question.

Regards, Benoit.

 

Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use cases and requirements.

 

Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement.

At this step, the functions required for interoperability between mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the interoperability requirements prior to re charter.

 

Regards

Emile

 

 

> -----Message d'origine-----

> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de]

> Envoyé : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28

> À : ipfix@ietf.org

> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types

>

> Dear all,

>

> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by

> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

>

> > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)

> >    Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to

> >    specify what operations make sense for an IE.

> >    Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format.

> >    Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF  71.

>

> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information

> elements by using option records that map data types to element

> identifiers.

>

> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the

> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen

> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the

> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array.

> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately.

>

> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this

> method when IPFIX records are stored.

>

> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol?

> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item?

> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments.

>

> Thanks,

>

>     Juergen

>

>

>

> _______________________________________________

> IPFIX mailing list

> IPFIX@ietf.org

> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix


_______________________________________________
IPFIX mailing list
IPFIX@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

--------------050301020608020707050905-- --===============0542245692== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============0542245692==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:19:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7wC-0005ni-LQ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:19:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7wB-0005mM-35 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:19:47 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7w9-0005l7-O5 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:19:47 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 20:19:46 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPuCqEaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPaAEBAQgKJw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149107205:sNHT30247078" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QIJjQc016872; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:19:45 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QIJgkt005970; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:19:42 GMT Received: from [10.82.240.227] (rtp-vpn2-227.cisco.com [10.82.240.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25831; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:19:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8E5BF.7040108@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:19:43 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Subject: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=738; t=1185473985; x=1186337985; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20requirements=3A=20=20Extraction, =20Distribu tion, =20Duplication, =0A=20=09Aggregation=20, =20Storage, =20Self=20Descripti on,=20Anonymization,=20=09Obfuscation=20=20... |Sender:=20; bh=tR04+PMeRy3ST61Sx5bHxB+CYO5cWfGjtD7rijqHvdI=; b=wJpIC+W6+yW6ZY5E2dT8Elxjs8qLBLJemR31aTdbnx79gOUil5M5nyhhxi6kmKztYA8fG6YH Vy9ACL9Euh8lNE14WlWJ8hJBWiClzmLp4pGUu7jZLcma5G/93UzvhniZ; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Emile, > Work item #3 > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when > exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So > it's a function of mediation. If I consider a slight change of focus and name to "IP Flow Information Exchange", then I think an interoperable file format is crucial. It's possible that simple collectors will want to use the file format to store received flows, and such files may be exchanged by researchers for analysing data or testing purposes. So while the file format MAY be a function of mediation, I certainly don't think it's exclusively a mediation function. Cheers. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:19:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7wC-0005ni-LQ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:19:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7wB-0005mM-35 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:19:47 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE7w9-0005l7-O5 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:19:47 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 20:19:46 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPuCqEaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPaAEBAQgKJw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149107205:sNHT30247078" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QIJjQc016872; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:19:45 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QIJgkt005970; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:19:42 GMT Received: from [10.82.240.227] (rtp-vpn2-227.cisco.com [10.82.240.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id TAA25831; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:19:40 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A8E5BF.7040108@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:19:43 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Subject: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=738; t=1185473985; x=1186337985; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20requirements=3A=20=20Extraction, =20Distribu tion, =20Duplication, =0A=20=09Aggregation=20, =20Storage, =20Self=20Descripti on,=20Anonymization,=20=09Obfuscation=20=20... |Sender:=20; bh=tR04+PMeRy3ST61Sx5bHxB+CYO5cWfGjtD7rijqHvdI=; b=wJpIC+W6+yW6ZY5E2dT8Elxjs8qLBLJemR31aTdbnx79gOUil5M5nyhhxi6kmKztYA8fG6YH Vy9ACL9Euh8lNE14WlWJ8hJBWiClzmLp4pGUu7jZLcma5G/93UzvhniZ; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Emile, > Work item #3 > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when > exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So > it's a function of mediation. If I consider a slight change of focus and name to "IP Flow Information Exchange", then I think an interoperable file format is crucial. It's possible that simple collectors will want to use the file format to store received flows, and such files may be exchanged by researchers for analysing data or testing purposes. So while the file format MAY be a function of mediation, I certainly don't think it's exclusively a mediation function. Cheers. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From rdghlu@lsc.net.tw Thu Jul 26 14:29:22 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE85S-0004WP-0Z; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:29:22 -0400 Received: from [89.242.44.143] (helo=lsc.net.tw) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE85J-0005wO-As; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:29:21 -0400 Message-ID: <229501c7cff1$1610dba0$2f1abb5b@rdghlu> From: "Oscar" To: "Jamey" Cc: "Shayne Hudson" , "Jeannetta Little" , "Clinton Gordon" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Haley Gilbert" , "Reena" Subject: Yes or no Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 01:54:36 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Finally prices you can appreciate about. DiscountPharmacy a Best Canadian Intl. Medicine Service Supplier. Ever since opening in Y2k of March, Discount-Pharmacy has merit many pharmaceutics official approvals and turn out to be one of the largely reliable pharmacies on the Internet. With over regular staff, and over 4500 prescribed by doctor filled every day and shipped cautiously to patients globally, you can count on us with your medical prescription medicine purchase. For more Information, Try this Link: www.viberx.org Places of honour reading had been kept for the Miss Lammeters near the town head gladly of the slope principal tea-table in th snake pass hour wail Here and there a sallow, begrimed face looked out from a gloomy doorway at the strangers, and increa DIVERS WOMEN axillary map mark set OF THE CHORUS. With that, line Dunstan slammed dream the door behind him, and left Godfrey to that asinine bitter send rumination on his pe One band was round flying, down good by place empty rocks and trees From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:35:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Bd-00018b-B9; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:45 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Bc-00018W-HP for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:44 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Ba-00063r-LP for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:44 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.24) with ESMTP id l6QIZVsH008042 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:38 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id l6QIYHHd007955 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:34:17 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id l6QIYFks007952; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.129.18.248] (vpn-10-25-4-9.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.9]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.66) with ESMTP id l6QIYFfH023964; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:34:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <71DCBA8E-C0FB-4B60-9EA8-43EA87C31217@cert.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:34:12 -0500 To: Benoit Claise , STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.001009 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Benoit, Emile, >> Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for >> telcos: how to map a private IE on a standard one? >> > I'm not sure this draft answers this question Speaking as a co-author of the draft in question, indeed, it does not. It aims to provide a generalized method for representing the properties of Information Elements as defined in the IPFIX Information Model inline within an IPFIX Message. We have a bit more work to do on a -01 revision which will address those Information Element properties (e.g., units, names) not presently in the draft; such a revision is forthcoming. Information Element equivalence, while potentially interesting, is out of scope and would be a subject for future work in another draft. I'm not sure how useful it would be beyond two particular cases (1. a private IE which is submitted to IANA and becomes an IANA IE; 2. two vendors exporting _exactly_ the same data with different IEs within their own respective PEN number spaces), but I'll admit I've not thought that deeply about it... >> Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may >> implement. While the file draft and extended type draft define functions that may be implemented within a mediator, they are not specifically scoped to the mediator case. So I don't think it's necessary to define a mediator architecture in order to specify a file format and extended type mechanism. (i.e., what Paul just said). Regards, Brian _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:35:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Bd-00018b-B9; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:45 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Bc-00018W-HP for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:44 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Ba-00063r-LP for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:44 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.24) with ESMTP id l6QIZVsH008042 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:35:38 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id l6QIYHHd007955 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:34:17 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id l6QIYFks007952; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:34:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.129.18.248] (vpn-10-25-4-9.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.9]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.66) with ESMTP id l6QIYFfH023964; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:34:15 -0400 In-Reply-To: <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <71DCBA8E-C0FB-4B60-9EA8-43EA87C31217@cert.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 13:34:12 -0500 To: Benoit Claise , STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.001009 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Benoit, Emile, >> Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for >> telcos: how to map a private IE on a standard one? >> > I'm not sure this draft answers this question Speaking as a co-author of the draft in question, indeed, it does not. It aims to provide a generalized method for representing the properties of Information Elements as defined in the IPFIX Information Model inline within an IPFIX Message. We have a bit more work to do on a -01 revision which will address those Information Element properties (e.g., units, names) not presently in the draft; such a revision is forthcoming. Information Element equivalence, while potentially interesting, is out of scope and would be a subject for future work in another draft. I'm not sure how useful it would be beyond two particular cases (1. a private IE which is submitted to IANA and becomes an IANA IE; 2. two vendors exporting _exactly_ the same data with different IEs within their own respective PEN number spaces), but I'll admit I've not thought that deeply about it... >> Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may >> implement. While the file draft and extended type draft define functions that may be implemented within a mediator, they are not specifically scoped to the mediator case. So I don't think it's necessary to define a mediator architecture in order to specify a file format and extended type mechanism. (i.e., what Paul just said). Regards, Brian _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:48:34 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Nw-00047w-Cx; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:48:28 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Nv-00047r-MG for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:48:27 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Nu-00056f-5A for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:48:27 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:48:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:47:57 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: mapping private IE Thread-Index: AcfPrEpH4q8EFfYaRb+HVQgQEE9zVAABTOeg References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Benoit Claise" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 18:48:17.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[877B8D80:01C7CFB5] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8f8267f77ca4545e62c57802503816d5 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek Subject: [IPFIX] mapping private IE X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1349655586==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1349655586== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Benoit, =20 The aim of this draft is to standardize the transcoding of private IE to = standard datatype. It is a subset of one telco need: mapping private IE = to a standard IE.=20 =20 The approach I propose is really open because new datatypes IE may be = added in the future in the IANA IPFIX info model registry.=20 =20 Regards Emile =20 ________________________________ De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]=20 Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 19:42 =C0 : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Cc : Juergen Quittek; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org Objet : Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, = Duplication,Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, = Obfuscation ... =20 Hi Emile, HI Juergen and Nevil, =20 Work item #3 Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when = exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So = it's a function of mediation. =20 Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how = to map a private IE on a standard one? I'm not sure this draft answers this question. Regards, Benoit. =20 Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use = cases and requirements. =20 Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. At this step, the functions required for interoperability between = mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define = the interoperability requirements prior to re charter. =20 Regards Emile =20 =20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >=20 > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > elements by using option records that map data types to element > identifiers. >=20 > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > data type of received information elements. This may in particular = happen > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet = array. > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >=20 > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using = this > method when IPFIX records are stored. >=20 > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix =20 ________________________________ =20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Benoit,

 =

The aim of this = draft is to standardize the transcoding of private IE = to standard datatype. It is a subset of one telco need: mapping private IE to a standard IE.

 =

The approach I = propose is really open because new datatypes IE may be = added in the future in the IANA IPFIX info model registry. =

 =

Regards

Emile<= /span>

 =

De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 = juillet 2007 19:42
=C0 : STEPHAN Emile = RD-CORE-LAN
Cc : Juergen = Quittek; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication,Aggregation , = Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ...=

 

Hi Emile,

HI Juergen and = Nevil,

 

Work item = #3

Storing IPFIX records in files = requires interoperability only when exchanging these files with some one else or = some other application. So it's a function of = mediation.

 

Work item #4 points indirectly = to a major point concern for telcos: how to map a private IE on a standard = one?

I'm not sure this draft = answers this question.

Regards, Benoit.

 

Work item #5 defines mediator = arch & functions. Then it gives many use cases and = requirements.

 

Work items #3, #4 and #5 give = many functions a mediator may = implement.

At this step, the functions = required for interoperability between mediators are not identified. So please = consider the necessity to define the interoperability requirements prior to re = charter.

 

Regards<= /p>

Emile

 

 

> -----Message = d'origine-----

> De : Juergen Quittek = [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de]

> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 = juillet 2007 08:28

> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org=

> Objet : [IPFIX] new = work item candidate #4: extended types

> =

> Dear = all,

> =

> Candidates #4 to become a = new IPFIX work item is described by

> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

> =

> > 4. Extended Types = (Elisa Boschi)

> >    = Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need = to

> >    = specify what operations make sense for an = IE.

> >    = Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format.

> >    Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF  = 71.

> =

> It is a method for = assigning data types to unknown IPFIX = information

> elements by using option = records that map data types to element

> = identifiers.

> =

> It can be applied in cases = where an IPFIX collector does not know = the

> data type of received = information elements. This may in particular = happen

> if enterprise specific = elements are used. Without this information = the

> collector would treat these = elements as if they were of type octet = array.

> With this information it = may be able to treat them more = appropriately.

> =

> The current version of the = IPFIX file format draft recommends using = this

> method when IPFIX records = are stored.

> =

> Do you think this is a = useful extension of the IPFIX = protocol?

> Do you think we should = accept this as an IPFIX work item?

> Please have a look at the = draft and send your comments.

> =

> = Thanks,

> =

>     = Juergen

> =

> =

> =

> _______________________________________________

> IPFIX mailing = list

> IPFIX@ietf.org=

> https://www1.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

 






 
______________________________________________=
_
IPFIX mailing =
list
IPFIX@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/ipfix
=A0 =

 <= /font>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B-- --===============1349655586== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1349655586==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:48:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Nw-00047w-Cx; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:48:28 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Nv-00047r-MG for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:48:27 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Nu-00056f-5A for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:48:27 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:48:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:47:57 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: mapping private IE Thread-Index: AcfPrEpH4q8EFfYaRb+HVQgQEE9zVAABTOeg References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A8DCE2.5010508@cisco.com> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Benoit Claise" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 18:48:17.0240 (UTC) FILETIME=[877B8D80:01C7CFB5] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8f8267f77ca4545e62c57802503816d5 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek Subject: [IPFIX] mapping private IE X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1349655586==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1349655586== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Benoit, =20 The aim of this draft is to standardize the transcoding of private IE to = standard datatype. It is a subset of one telco need: mapping private IE = to a standard IE.=20 =20 The approach I propose is really open because new datatypes IE may be = added in the future in the IANA IPFIX info model registry.=20 =20 Regards Emile =20 ________________________________ De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]=20 Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 19:42 =C0 : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Cc : Juergen Quittek; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org Objet : Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, = Duplication,Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, = Obfuscation ... =20 Hi Emile, HI Juergen and Nevil, =20 Work item #3 Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when = exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. So = it's a function of mediation. =20 Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how = to map a private IE on a standard one? I'm not sure this draft answers this question. Regards, Benoit. =20 Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use = cases and requirements. =20 Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. At this step, the functions required for interoperability between = mediators are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define = the interoperability requirements prior to re charter. =20 Regards Emile =20 =20 > -----Message d'origine----- > De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >=20 > > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information > elements by using option records that map data types to element > identifiers. >=20 > It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the > data type of received information elements. This may in particular = happen > if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the > collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet = array. > With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >=20 > The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using = this > method when IPFIX records are stored. >=20 > Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix =20 ________________________________ =20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix =20 =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi = Benoit,

 =

The aim of this = draft is to standardize the transcoding of private IE = to standard datatype. It is a subset of one telco need: mapping private IE to a standard IE.

 =

The approach I = propose is really open because new datatypes IE may be = added in the future in the IANA IPFIX info model registry. =

 =

Regards

Emile<= /span>

 =

De : Benoit Claise [mailto:bclaise@cisco.com]
Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 = juillet 2007 19:42
=C0 : STEPHAN Emile = RD-CORE-LAN
Cc : Juergen = Quittek; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org
Objet : Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication,Aggregation , = Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ...=

 

Hi Emile,

HI Juergen and = Nevil,

 

Work item = #3

Storing IPFIX records in files = requires interoperability only when exchanging these files with some one else or = some other application. So it's a function of = mediation.

 

Work item #4 points indirectly = to a major point concern for telcos: how to map a private IE on a standard = one?

I'm not sure this draft = answers this question.

Regards, Benoit.

 

Work item #5 defines mediator = arch & functions. Then it gives many use cases and = requirements.

 

Work items #3, #4 and #5 give = many functions a mediator may = implement.

At this step, the functions = required for interoperability between mediators are not identified. So please = consider the necessity to define the interoperability requirements prior to re = charter.

 

Regards<= /p>

Emile

 

 

> -----Message = d'origine-----

> De : Juergen Quittek = [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de]

> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 = juillet 2007 08:28

> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org=

> Objet : [IPFIX] new = work item candidate #4: extended types

> =

> Dear = all,

> =

> Candidates #4 to become a = new IPFIX work item is described by

> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.

> =

> > 4. Extended Types = (Elisa Boschi)

> >    = Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need = to

> >    = specify what operations make sense for an = IE.

> >    = Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format.

> >    Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF  = 71.

> =

> It is a method for = assigning data types to unknown IPFIX = information

> elements by using option = records that map data types to element

> = identifiers.

> =

> It can be applied in cases = where an IPFIX collector does not know = the

> data type of received = information elements. This may in particular = happen

> if enterprise specific = elements are used. Without this information = the

> collector would treat these = elements as if they were of type octet = array.

> With this information it = may be able to treat them more = appropriately.

> =

> The current version of the = IPFIX file format draft recommends using = this

> method when IPFIX records = are stored.

> =

> Do you think this is a = useful extension of the IPFIX = protocol?

> Do you think we should = accept this as an IPFIX work item?

> Please have a look at the = draft and send your comments.

> =

> = Thanks,

> =

>     = Juergen

> =

> =

> =

> _______________________________________________

> IPFIX mailing = list

> IPFIX@ietf.org=

> https://www1.ietf.o= rg/mailman/listinfo/ipfix

 






 
______________________________________________=
_
IPFIX mailing =
list
IPFIX@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/ipfix
=A0 =

 <= /font>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFB5.8708EE2B-- --===============1349655586== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1349655586==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:54:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Tj-000273-Kt; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:54:27 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Ti-00026y-Nm for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:54:26 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Ti-0005CT-1q for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:54:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5A928016A80; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dnRletM05lXz; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB94128014C90; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 130.129.82.248 ([130.129.82.248]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:54:05 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:03 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN , Nevil Brownlee , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5GwAScO8QAAefNig= In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] Re: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Emile, Am 26.07.2007 18:37 Uhr schrieb "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" unter : > HI Juergen and Nevil, > =20 > Work item #3 > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when exchan= ging > these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a funct= ion > of mediation. I agree that one may see it this way and it is a very good point to conside= r when working on a file format. However, for the discussions we are having I would prefer to separate the discussion on the file format work item from the discussion on the mediator work item. > Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how t= o map > a private IE on a standard one? Now I understand your requirement. However, as it is currently written, the proposed work does not suggest to map enterprise-specific IEs to standard ones, but to just assign data types to unknown (enterprise-specific) IEs. This is a use case different to yours= . > Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use ca= ses > and requirements. I fully agree. =20 > Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. > At this step, the functions required for interoperability between mediato= rs > are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the > interoperability requirements prior to re charter. Thank you for this hint. We will consider it if we charter a work item on mediation. Thanks, Juergen > Regards > Emile > =20 > =20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] >> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 >> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org >> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >>=20 >> Dear all, >>=20 >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>=20 >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>> =A0=A0=A0 Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>> =A0=A0=A0 specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>> =A0=A0=A0 Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>> =A0=A0=A0 Milestones:=A0 WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF=A0 71. >>=20 >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >> elements by using option records that map data types to element >> identifiers. >>=20 >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happe= n >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array= . >> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >>=20 >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>=20 >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> =A0=A0=A0=A0 Juergen >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 14:54:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Tj-000273-Kt; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:54:27 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Ti-00026y-Nm for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:54:26 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE8Ti-0005CT-1q for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 14:54:26 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A5A928016A80; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:27 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dnRletM05lXz; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:26 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB94128014C90; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:06 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 130.129.82.248 ([130.129.82.248]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:54:05 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:54:03 +0200 From: Juergen Quittek To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN , Nevil Brownlee , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5GwAScO8QAAefNig= In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 4.4 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: a8a20a483a84f747e56475e290ee868e Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] Re: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, Duplication, Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation ... X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Emile, Am 26.07.2007 18:37 Uhr schrieb "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" unter : > HI Juergen and Nevil, > =20 > Work item #3 > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when exchan= ging > these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a funct= ion > of mediation. I agree that one may see it this way and it is a very good point to conside= r when working on a file format. However, for the discussions we are having I would prefer to separate the discussion on the file format work item from the discussion on the mediator work item. > Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: how t= o map > a private IE on a standard one? Now I understand your requirement. However, as it is currently written, the proposed work does not suggest to map enterprise-specific IEs to standard ones, but to just assign data types to unknown (enterprise-specific) IEs. This is a use case different to yours= . > Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many use ca= ses > and requirements. I fully agree. =20 > Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. > At this step, the functions required for interoperability between mediato= rs > are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the > interoperability requirements prior to re charter. Thank you for this hint. We will consider it if we charter a work item on mediation. Thanks, Juergen > Regards > Emile > =20 > =20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] >> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 >> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org >> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >>=20 >> Dear all, >>=20 >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>=20 >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>> =A0=A0=A0 Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>> =A0=A0=A0 specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>> =A0=A0=A0 Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>> =A0=A0=A0 Milestones:=A0 WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF=A0 71. >>=20 >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >> elements by using option records that map data types to element >> identifiers. >>=20 >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happe= n >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array= . >> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >>=20 >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>=20 >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> =A0=A0=A0=A0 Juergen >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 15:48:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9Jr-0002Ks-AA; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:48:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9Jq-0002Kn-4z for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:48:18 -0400 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9Jo-0007bQ-A7 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:48:18 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:48:05 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:47:45 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46A8E5BF.7040108@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Telco needs of standard IPFIX middleware I/O Thread-Index: AcfPsY2hDapUqeiATiecQsNV+1PcNgABSfmg References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A8E5BF.7040108@cisco.com> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Paul Aitken" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 19:48:05.0785 (UTC) FILETIME=[E26C1090:01C7CFBD] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek Subject: [IPFIX] Telco needs of standard IPFIX middleware I/O X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, I focus on telco current needs. There are multiple ways to carry a 'file'. You can pipe it through some = filtering or aggregation process. In this context Brian draft has great = value because it is defining I/O for IPFIX middlewares.=20 Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Paul Aitken [mailto:paitken@cisco.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 26 juillet 2007 20:20 > =C0=A0: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN > Cc=A0: Juergen Quittek; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, = Duplication, > Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation = ... >=20 > Emile, >=20 >=20 > > Work item #3 > > > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when > > exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. = So > > it's a function of mediation. >=20 > If I consider a slight change of focus and name to "IP Flow = Information > Exchange", then I think an interoperable file format is crucial. >=20 > It's possible that simple collectors will want to use the file format = to > store received flows, and such files may be exchanged by researchers = for > analysing data or testing purposes. >=20 > So while the file format MAY be a function of mediation, I certainly > don't think it's exclusively a mediation function. >=20 > Cheers. > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 15:48:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9Jr-0002Ks-AA; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:48:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9Jq-0002Kn-4z for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:48:18 -0400 Received: from p-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9Jo-0007bQ-A7 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 15:48:18 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:48:05 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:47:45 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46A8E5BF.7040108@cisco.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Telco needs of standard IPFIX middleware I/O Thread-Index: AcfPsY2hDapUqeiATiecQsNV+1PcNgABSfmg References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <46A8E5BF.7040108@cisco.com> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Paul Aitken" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 19:48:05.0785 (UTC) FILETIME=[E26C1090:01C7CFBD] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 50a516d93fd399dc60588708fd9a3002 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek Subject: [IPFIX] Telco needs of standard IPFIX middleware I/O X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, I focus on telco current needs. There are multiple ways to carry a 'file'. You can pipe it through some = filtering or aggregation process. In this context Brian draft has great = value because it is defining I/O for IPFIX middlewares.=20 Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Paul Aitken [mailto:paitken@cisco.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 26 juillet 2007 20:20 > =C0=A0: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN > Cc=A0: Juergen Quittek; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org > Objet=A0: Re: [IPFIX] requirements: Extraction, Distribution, = Duplication, > Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, Obfuscation = ... >=20 > Emile, >=20 >=20 > > Work item #3 > > > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when > > exchanging these files with some one else or some other application. = So > > it's a function of mediation. >=20 > If I consider a slight change of focus and name to "IP Flow = Information > Exchange", then I think an interoperable file format is crucial. >=20 > It's possible that simple collectors will want to use the file format = to > store received flows, and such files may be exchanged by researchers = for > analysing data or testing purposes. >=20 > So while the file format MAY be a function of mediation, I certainly > don't think it's exclusively a mediation function. >=20 > Cheers. > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 16:28:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9wW-00086j-SN; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:28:16 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9wR-00082h-Af for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:28:11 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9wP-0008Nz-R3 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:28:11 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:27:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:27:52 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: discussion on telco requirement prior to re chartering Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5GwAScO8QAAefNigAAe0A8A== References: From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Juergen Quittek" , "Nevil Brownlee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 20:27:47.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E392680:01C7CFC3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] discussion on telco requirement prior to re chartering X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Juergen and Nevil, It does not make sense to separate item 3 and 5 because they compliment = together regarding telco needs of standard I/O for IPFIX middlewares.=20 I don't support item 4 because it introduces a second level of = datamodeling and because the datatype lists are not extensible.=20 Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 26 juillet 2007 20:54 > =C0=A0: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org > Cc=A0: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Objet=A0: Re: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, > Duplication,Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, > Obfuscation ... >=20 > Hi Emile, >=20 >=20 > Am 26.07.2007 18:37 Uhr schrieb "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" unter > : >=20 > > HI Juergen and Nevil, > > > > Work item #3 > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when > exchanging > > these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a > function > > of mediation. >=20 > I agree that one may see it this way and it is a very good point to > consider > when working on a file format. However, for the discussions we are = having > I would prefer to separate the discussion on the file format work item > from > the discussion on the mediator work item. >=20 > > Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: = how > to map > > a private IE on a standard one? >=20 > Now I understand your requirement. > However, as it is currently written, the proposed work does not = suggest to > map enterprise-specific IEs to standard ones, but to just assign data > types > to unknown (enterprise-specific) IEs. This is a use case different to > yours. >=20 > > Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many = use > cases > > and requirements. >=20 > I fully agree. >=20 > > Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may = implement. > > At this step, the functions required for interoperability between > mediators > > are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the > > interoperability requirements prior to re charter. >=20 > Thank you for this hint. > We will consider it if we charter a work item on mediation. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 > > Regards > > Emile > > > > > >> -----Message d'origine----- > >> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > >> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > >> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > >> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. > >> > >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > >>> =A0=A0=A0 Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; = need to > >>> =A0=A0=A0 specify what operations make sense for an IE. > >>> =A0=A0=A0 Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > >>> =A0=A0=A0 Milestones:=A0 WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before = IETF=A0 71. > >> > >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX = information > >> elements by using option records that map data types to element > >> identifiers. > >> > >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know = the > >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular > happen > >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information = the > >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet > array. > >> With this information it may be able to treat them more = appropriately. > >> > >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using > this > >> method when IPFIX records are stored. > >> > >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> =A0=A0=A0=A0 Juergen > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> IPFIX mailing list > >> IPFIX@ietf.org > >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > > >=20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 16:28:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9wW-00086j-SN; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:28:16 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9wR-00082h-Af for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:28:11 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IE9wP-0008Nz-R3 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:28:11 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp1.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:27:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:27:52 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: discussion on telco requirement prior to re chartering Thread-Index: AcfPThT+U45yJDtBEdytZQAWy4a5GwAScO8QAAefNigAAe0A8A== References: From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Juergen Quittek" , "Nevil Brownlee" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 20:27:47.0816 (UTC) FILETIME=[6E392680:01C7CFC3] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 36b1f8810cb91289d885dc8ab4fc8172 Cc: Subject: [IPFIX] discussion on telco requirement prior to re chartering X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Juergen and Nevil, It does not make sense to separate item 3 and 5 because they compliment = together regarding telco needs of standard I/O for IPFIX middlewares.=20 I don't support item 4 because it introduces a second level of = datamodeling and because the datatype lists are not extensible.=20 Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > Envoy=E9=A0: jeudi 26 juillet 2007 20:54 > =C0=A0: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org > Cc=A0: Romascanu, Dan (Dan) > Objet=A0: Re: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, > Duplication,Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, > Obfuscation ... >=20 > Hi Emile, >=20 >=20 > Am 26.07.2007 18:37 Uhr schrieb "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" unter > : >=20 > > HI Juergen and Nevil, > > > > Work item #3 > > Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when > exchanging > > these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a > function > > of mediation. >=20 > I agree that one may see it this way and it is a very good point to > consider > when working on a file format. However, for the discussions we are = having > I would prefer to separate the discussion on the file format work item > from > the discussion on the mediator work item. >=20 > > Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: = how > to map > > a private IE on a standard one? >=20 > Now I understand your requirement. > However, as it is currently written, the proposed work does not = suggest to > map enterprise-specific IEs to standard ones, but to just assign data > types > to unknown (enterprise-specific) IEs. This is a use case different to > yours. >=20 > > Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many = use > cases > > and requirements. >=20 > I fully agree. >=20 > > Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may = implement. > > At this step, the functions required for interoperability between > mediators > > are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the > > interoperability requirements prior to re charter. >=20 > Thank you for this hint. > We will consider it if we charter a work item on mediation. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Juergen >=20 > > Regards > > Emile > > > > > >> -----Message d'origine----- > >> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] > >> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 > >> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org > >> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by > >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. > >> > >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > >>> =A0=A0=A0 Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; = need to > >>> =A0=A0=A0 specify what operations make sense for an IE. > >>> =A0=A0=A0 Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > >>> =A0=A0=A0 Milestones:=A0 WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before = IETF=A0 71. > >> > >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX = information > >> elements by using option records that map data types to element > >> identifiers. > >> > >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know = the > >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular > happen > >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information = the > >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet > array. > >> With this information it may be able to treat them more = appropriately. > >> > >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using > this > >> method when IPFIX records are stored. > >> > >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? > >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? > >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> > >> =A0=A0=A0=A0 Juergen > >> > >> > >> > >> _______________________________________________ > >> IPFIX mailing list > >> IPFIX@ietf.org > >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix > > >=20 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From gejarrcvek@arrc.net Thu Jul 26 17:34:32 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEAye-0004C6-03; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:34:32 -0400 Received: from [88.227.93.83] (helo=[88.227.93.83]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEAyd-0000Bl-7Z; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:34:31 -0400 Received: from [88.227.93.83] by mail.usave.net; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:34:31 -0200 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:34:31 -0200 From: "Curt Bloom" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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------------3D3DA21A0C5136-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 17:42:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEB62-0002wK-5L; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:42:10 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEB60-0002nR-JU for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:42:08 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEB5z-0000Kn-SS for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:42:08 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 23:42:05 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOixqEaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPaAEBAQgKJw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149115846:sNHT28837402" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QLg5Nx016767 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:05 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QLg4kt027617 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:42:04 GMT Received: from [10.21.127.227] (sjc-vpn6-2019.cisco.com [10.21.127.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10065 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:42:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A9152E.9010807@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:42:06 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4049; t=1185486125; x=1186350125; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20IPFIX-PROTO=3A=20template=20reuse |Sender:=20; bh=QI985jLX9AdHWshYbq90YYxIgoBfqe7B/fSDdNRXvz8=; b=JxZlXN8WJnkmAJzkuFjUzihGcWh0AiR2FtVJf0MhqAjTG/9A6IxBYEM1tFAxoujsjPoAzvMT oPM+Qup75NpdZpLnm/kHY/zIFSNhM0sFeErj5Wa6KUh6oYYLuqc3ZCeL; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 Subject: [IPFIX] IPFIX-PROTO: template reuse X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, While working on the IPFIX-TESTING draft, I realised that IPFIX-PROTO doesn't specify very clearly what to do if a Template ID is reused inside the template expiry time (ie, same Template ID, different template definition) while TCP transport is being used. With SCTP and TCP transports, we expect Templates only to be sent once. Section 8 (Template Management / SCTP) and 10.4.2.2 (Templates Management / TCP) of IPFIX-PROTO say: Before reusing a Template ID, the Template MUST be deleted. In order to delete an allocated Template, the Template is withdrawn through the use of a Template Withdraw Message. And in section 9 (The Collecting Process's Side): Template Sets and Option Template Sets are only sent once. The Collecting Process MUST store the Template Record information for the duration of the association so that it can interpret the corresponding Data Records that are received in subsequent Data Sets. Which is followed by a clear statement of what to do for SCTP: Template IDs are unique per SCTP association and per Observation Domain. If the Collecting Process receives a Template which has already been received but which has not previously been withdrawn (i.e. a Template Record from the same Exporter Observation Domain with the same Template ID received on the SCTP association), then the Collecting Process MUST shutdown the association. With UDP transport, we can expect a Template to be refreshed many times. eg, it's possible that the Template changes because the Exporting Process restarted. So we have to allow this. And with TCP... well, we don't say at all. We can't even suppose to follow the malformed message rule: If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it MUST reset the TCP connection, discard the IPFIX Message, and SHOULD log the error. - because a Template reuse won't be a malformed Message itself; it'll be a valid Message. It's only because the Collector has previously received a different definition for the same Template ID that there's any problem (ie, the problem is due to Collector state). Looking at section 10 and comparing the SCTP, UDP and TCP sub-sections, it's clear that the TCP "Collecting Process" section is missing. The SCTP Collecting Process section (10.2.5) simply says: When the transport protocol is SCTP, the default Collector processing described in Section 9 is used. I would like to see a new TCP / Collecting Process section (probably just at the end of the existing TCP section, ie new section 10.4.3). Without wanting to reproduce section 9 entirely, it might say: When the transport protocol is TCP the default Collector processing described in Section 9 is used, with "SCTP association" being substituted by "TCP connection". When I read section 9 with that substitution, it makes sense - except for a couple of places where it mentions SCTP stream zero, which I hope will soon be fixed too. This should be followed by a TCP / Failover section similar to the SCTP and UDP sections (10.2.6 and 10.3.8). eg, it may read: If the Collecting Process does not acknowledge the attempt by the Exporting Process to establish an association the Exporting Process should retry using an exponential backoff. The Exporter MAY log an alarm if the time to establish the association exceeds a specified threshold, configurable on the Exporter. If Collecting Process failover is supported by the Exporting Process a second TCP connection MAY be opened in advance. - though we may not want to limit to "a second" (neither here, nor in the SCTP Failover section, 10.2.6). We may wish to say "additional..." instead. Finally, a very minor correction: 10.4.2.2 "Templates Management" should be singular, just like 10.2.4.4 and 10.3.6. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 17:42:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEB62-0002wK-5L; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:42:10 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEB60-0002nR-JU for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:42:08 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEB5z-0000Kn-SS for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:42:08 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Jul 2007 23:42:05 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAOixqEaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACPaAEBAQgKJw X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149115846:sNHT28837402" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QLg5Nx016767 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:42:05 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QLg4kt027617 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:42:04 GMT Received: from [10.21.127.227] (sjc-vpn6-2019.cisco.com [10.21.127.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA10065 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:42:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A9152E.9010807@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:42:06 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=4049; t=1185486125; x=1186350125; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20IPFIX-PROTO=3A=20template=20reuse |Sender:=20; bh=QI985jLX9AdHWshYbq90YYxIgoBfqe7B/fSDdNRXvz8=; b=JxZlXN8WJnkmAJzkuFjUzihGcWh0AiR2FtVJf0MhqAjTG/9A6IxBYEM1tFAxoujsjPoAzvMT oPM+Qup75NpdZpLnm/kHY/zIFSNhM0sFeErj5Wa6KUh6oYYLuqc3ZCeL; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 057ebe9b96adec30a7efb2aeda4c26a4 Subject: [IPFIX] IPFIX-PROTO: template reuse X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear all, While working on the IPFIX-TESTING draft, I realised that IPFIX-PROTO doesn't specify very clearly what to do if a Template ID is reused inside the template expiry time (ie, same Template ID, different template definition) while TCP transport is being used. With SCTP and TCP transports, we expect Templates only to be sent once. Section 8 (Template Management / SCTP) and 10.4.2.2 (Templates Management / TCP) of IPFIX-PROTO say: Before reusing a Template ID, the Template MUST be deleted. In order to delete an allocated Template, the Template is withdrawn through the use of a Template Withdraw Message. And in section 9 (The Collecting Process's Side): Template Sets and Option Template Sets are only sent once. The Collecting Process MUST store the Template Record information for the duration of the association so that it can interpret the corresponding Data Records that are received in subsequent Data Sets. Which is followed by a clear statement of what to do for SCTP: Template IDs are unique per SCTP association and per Observation Domain. If the Collecting Process receives a Template which has already been received but which has not previously been withdrawn (i.e. a Template Record from the same Exporter Observation Domain with the same Template ID received on the SCTP association), then the Collecting Process MUST shutdown the association. With UDP transport, we can expect a Template to be refreshed many times. eg, it's possible that the Template changes because the Exporting Process restarted. So we have to allow this. And with TCP... well, we don't say at all. We can't even suppose to follow the malformed message rule: If the Collecting Process receives a malformed IPFIX Message, it MUST reset the TCP connection, discard the IPFIX Message, and SHOULD log the error. - because a Template reuse won't be a malformed Message itself; it'll be a valid Message. It's only because the Collector has previously received a different definition for the same Template ID that there's any problem (ie, the problem is due to Collector state). Looking at section 10 and comparing the SCTP, UDP and TCP sub-sections, it's clear that the TCP "Collecting Process" section is missing. The SCTP Collecting Process section (10.2.5) simply says: When the transport protocol is SCTP, the default Collector processing described in Section 9 is used. I would like to see a new TCP / Collecting Process section (probably just at the end of the existing TCP section, ie new section 10.4.3). Without wanting to reproduce section 9 entirely, it might say: When the transport protocol is TCP the default Collector processing described in Section 9 is used, with "SCTP association" being substituted by "TCP connection". When I read section 9 with that substitution, it makes sense - except for a couple of places where it mentions SCTP stream zero, which I hope will soon be fixed too. This should be followed by a TCP / Failover section similar to the SCTP and UDP sections (10.2.6 and 10.3.8). eg, it may read: If the Collecting Process does not acknowledge the attempt by the Exporting Process to establish an association the Exporting Process should retry using an exponential backoff. The Exporter MAY log an alarm if the time to establish the association exceeds a specified threshold, configurable on the Exporter. If Collecting Process failover is supported by the Exporting Process a second TCP connection MAY be opened in advance. - though we may not want to limit to "a second" (neither here, nor in the SCTP Failover section, 10.2.6). We may wish to say "additional..." instead. Finally, a very minor correction: 10.4.2.2 "Templates Management" should be singular, just like 10.2.4.4 and 10.3.6. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 17:51:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEj-0001Hf-00; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEh-0001Ha-G2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:07 -0400 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEg-0001Rd-Tc for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:07 -0400 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.24) with ESMTP id l6QLowEh008118 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:03 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id l6QLn14i007955 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:49:01 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id l6QLmvTS007947; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.129.18.248] (vpn-10-25-4-9.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.9]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.66) with ESMTP id l6QLmvS3015571; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:48:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <89DC91CA-2F86-4A85-A443-6A6512F184B2@cert.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:48:55 -0500 To: Nevil Brownlee X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.001009 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Nevil and all, Comments inline on the proposed work items below... Cheers, Brian On Jul 25, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > Hi again all: > > Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier > posting. > > Cheers, Nevil > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > IPFIX: Proposal for new work > Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago > > For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 > (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. > Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< > Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the > questionnaire form below!! > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: > - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue > - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > issue a revised draft > - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call > - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last > Call > - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio > - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue > Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take > 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have > progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! > - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made > in the next revisions of both these drafts > > 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) > Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. > Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, > in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. > (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX > Configuration. > Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 > > 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) > Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. It's unclear to me that, after the stream restriction change in point 0. above, this should be Experimental as opposed to Informational... Per 2026, Experimental RFCs are intended as an archival record of a research work. Unless the primary intention is to change this draft to be a description and evaluation of the performance benefits of this (and potentially other) stream selection methods, it appears very much to be the description of an export method (which will be in line with the protocol after the stream restriction change in point 0. above) that has potential performance and other benefits within a defined set of use cases, very much like the recently-approved (Informational) Reducing Redundancy draft. > 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) > Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. As per Dan Romascanu's comments on the File Format during the IPFIX meeting in Dallas or Montreal (I do not recall which at the moment), and, indeed, per the Intended Status on the present revision of the document, I believe the File Format draft should be considered as a Standards Track RFC. The primary motivation of the draft is to promote the interoperability of files used in flow measurement infrastructures, to provide in a way a "fourth transport protocol" (filesystems and anything that can access filesystems) for IPFIX Messages. > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. Another point to reiterate here - the File Format draft includes a normative reference to this draft, as it uses the Options Template defined there to meet the self-description requirement when a file contains Enterprise-Specific Information Elements. The two should be considered for adoption together. The primary reason the extended type draft was created (from text originally in the file draft) was that we (the file draft authors) thought that the method might be useful on the wire, and we received feedback during and after the meeting in Prague that we were not the only ones who thought so. Regards, Brian _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 17:51:10 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEj-0001Hf-00; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:09 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEh-0001Ha-G2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:07 -0400 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.10]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEg-0001Rd-Tc for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:07 -0400 Received: from beniaminus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.24) with ESMTP id l6QLowEh008118 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:03 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id l6QLn14i007955 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:49:01 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by beniaminus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id l6QLmvTS007947; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:49:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [130.129.18.248] (vpn-10-25-4-9.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.9]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.66) with ESMTP id l6QLmvS3015571; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:48:57 -0400 In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <89DC91CA-2F86-4A85-A443-6A6512F184B2@cert.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 16:48:55 -0500 To: Nevil Brownlee X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.001009 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Nevil and all, Comments inline on the proposed work items below... Cheers, Brian On Jul 25, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Nevil Brownlee wrote: > > Hi again all: > > Here's a slightly improved, slightly clearer, version of my earlier > posting. > > Cheers, Nevil > > . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . > > IPFIX: Proposal for new work > Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago > > For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 > (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. > Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< > Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the > questionnaire form below!! > > 0. Remove SCTP stream restrictions in Protocol Document. > Agreed: WG needs to do this, as soon as possible. > Procedure: > - Call the protocol draft out of the RFC EDitor Queue > - Make changes (only those needed for SCTP Stream use), > issue a revised draft > - Run a short (1 week) WG last Call > - Run a short (2 weeks, it's a Standards Track draft) IETF Last > Call > - Send draft back to RFC for evalkuatio > - IESG sends it back to the RFC Editor Queue > Assuming that all goes well, we estimate all that will take > 6~8 weeks. By then we expect the PSAMP Info draft to have > progressed so that it will be in the RFC Editor Queue too! > - Corresponding changes to Implementation Guidelines and > Testing drafts will also be needed, they will be made > in the next revisions of both these drafts > > 1. Configuration Data Model (Gerhard Muenz) > Agreed: Important to WG, not clear what protocol would be needed. > Proposal: (a) Develop Configuration Info Model as a WG item, > in English (and also an XML version) - Standards Track RFC. > (b) Consider what protocol would be best for IPFIX > Configuration. > Requirements RFC? Milestones: WG LC before IETF 71 > > 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) > Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. It's unclear to me that, after the stream restriction change in point 0. above, this should be Experimental as opposed to Informational... Per 2026, Experimental RFCs are intended as an archival record of a research work. Unless the primary intention is to change this draft to be a description and evaluation of the performance benefits of this (and potentially other) stream selection methods, it appears very much to be the description of an export method (which will be in line with the protocol after the stream restriction change in point 0. above) that has potential performance and other benefits within a defined set of use cases, very much like the recently-approved (Informational) Reducing Redundancy draft. > 3. File Format (Brian Trammel) > Agreed: WG item, as soon as possible. > Procedure: Make this a WG item, as an Informational RFC. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. As per Dan Romascanu's comments on the File Format during the IPFIX meeting in Dallas or Montreal (I do not recall which at the moment), and, indeed, per the Intended Status on the present revision of the document, I believe the File Format draft should be considered as a Standards Track RFC. The primary motivation of the draft is to promote the interoperability of files used in flow measurement infrastructures, to provide in a way a "fourth transport protocol" (filesystems and anything that can access filesystems) for IPFIX Messages. > 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) > Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to > specify what operations make sense for an IE. > Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. > Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. Another point to reiterate here - the File Format draft includes a normative reference to this draft, as it uses the Options Template defined there to meet the self-description requirement when a file contains Enterprise-Specific Information Elements. The two should be considered for adoption together. The primary reason the extended type draft was created (from text originally in the file draft) was that we (the file draft authors) thought that the method might be useful on the wire, and we received feedback during and after the meeting in Prague that we were not the only ones who thought so. Regards, Brian _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 17:51:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEz-0001XP-BZ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEy-0001XK-Ib for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:24 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com ([194.36.128.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEw-0001Rl-OG for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:24 -0400 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1185486681-3c1f00320000-urGyNO X-Barracuda-URL: http://mhd-bar.hitachi-eu.com:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: primary.hitachi-eu.net[193.39.225.234] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1185486681 X-ASG-Whitelist: Client Received: from mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com (primary.hitachi-eu.net [193.39.225.234]) by gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 7EFE38CAE1 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com (Not Verified[193.39.227.52]) by mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com with MailMarshal (v6, 1, 8, 2172) id ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:51:25 +0000 Received: from mhdexcb.adhel.hitachi-eu.com ([193.39.227.47]) by MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:51:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7235.2 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Thread-Index: AcfPzxo95ZI1Uv8xRJ++1i8BMypyEw== From: "Boschi, Elisa" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 21:51:20.0911 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A42BDF0:01C7CFCF] X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by HEU SPAM Firewall - MHD at hitachi-eu.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3be09dac38eaa50f02d21c7fcee1128c Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1437712723==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1437712723== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gerhard, >=20 > On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow > describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my > impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad a= s > claimed in the introduction of the draft: >=20 > ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific > configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell whic= h > type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for > users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. > Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work o= n > them. ... > One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative measur= ement infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a different ve= ndor and exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that case, having = type information in the message stream allows ad-hoc preliminary analysis= =20of the enterprise specific data.=20 Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types to wor= k on them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too "restricted= "=20 =20 > In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data > requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may b= e > enough to display values correctly. Considering > informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation > of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense o= r > not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical > knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and > processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with > specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific= > purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE informa= tion. >=20 ...but those ad hoc tools won't be reusable, unless tool specific configu= ration or code modification are done for any used Enterprise Specific IE.= =20And what about if the tools are not updated?=20 A real life example that this draft would solve is mentioned in: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html ...which also contains the motivation for this draft. Regards, Elisa >=20 > Juergen Quittek wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >> >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >> elements by using option records that map data types to element identi= fiers. >> >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular hap= pen >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the= >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet arr= ay. >> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately.= >> >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using th= is >> method when IPFIX records are stored. >> >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 *************************************************************************= *************************=20 E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer.=20 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are int= ended solely for the use=20 of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Access to this e= -mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copy= ing, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. E-m= ail messages are not=20 necessarily secure. Hitachi does not accept responsibility for any change= s made to this message=20 after it was sent.=20 Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the presence= =20of computer viruses.=20 *************************************************************************= ************************* ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html

...which also contains the motivation for this draft.

Regards,
Elisa


>
> Juergen Quittek wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.
>>
>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)
>>>    Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for En= terprise IEs; need to
>>>    specify what operations make sense for an = IE.
>>>    Support shown for this as a WG item, as fo= r File Format.
>>>    Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to = IESG before IETF  71.
>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX informa= tion
>> elements by using option records that map data types to element = identifiers.
>>
>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not kno= w the
>> data type of received information elements. This may in particul= ar happen
>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this informati= on the
>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type oct= et array.
>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropri= ately.
>>
>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends us= ing this
>> method when IPFIX records are stored.
>>
>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item?
>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>     Juergen
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPFIX mailing list
>> IPFIX@ietf.org
>> https:/= /www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix
>

****************************************************************= **********************************
E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaime= r.=20

This email and any files transmitt= ed with it=20 are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or= =20entity=20 to which they are addressed. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient,any disclosure, copyi= ng,=20 distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it= , is=20 prohibited.
E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does n= ot=20 accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was=20 sent.

Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail message= s for=20 the presence of computer viruses.=20
*********************************************************************= *****************************

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147-- --===============1437712723== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1437712723==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 17:51:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEz-0001XP-BZ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEy-0001XK-Ib for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:24 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com ([194.36.128.25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBEw-0001Rl-OG for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 17:51:24 -0400 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1185486681-3c1f00320000-urGyNO X-Barracuda-URL: http://mhd-bar.hitachi-eu.com:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: primary.hitachi-eu.net[193.39.225.234] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1185486681 X-ASG-Whitelist: Client Received: from mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com (primary.hitachi-eu.net [193.39.225.234]) by gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 7EFE38CAE1 for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100 (BST) Received: from MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com (Not Verified[193.39.227.52]) by mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com with MailMarshal (v6, 1, 8, 2172) id ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 21:51:25 +0000 Received: from mhdexcb.adhel.hitachi-eu.com ([193.39.227.47]) by MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:51:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7235.2 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Thread-Index: AcfPzxo95ZI1Uv8xRJ++1i8BMypyEw== From: "Boschi, Elisa" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Jul 2007 21:51:20.0911 (UTC) FILETIME=[1A42BDF0:01C7CFCF] X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by HEU SPAM Firewall - MHD at hitachi-eu.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3be09dac38eaa50f02d21c7fcee1128c Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1437712723==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1437712723== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Gerhard, >=20 > On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow > describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my > impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad a= s > claimed in the introduction of the draft: >=20 > ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific > configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell whic= h > type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for > users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. > Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work o= n > them. ... > One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative measur= ement infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a different ve= ndor and exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that case, having = type information in the message stream allows ad-hoc preliminary analysis= =20of the enterprise specific data.=20 Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types to wor= k on them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too "restricted= "=20 =20 > In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data > requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may b= e > enough to display values correctly. Considering > informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation > of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense o= r > not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical > knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and > processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with > specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific= > purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE informa= tion. >=20 ...but those ad hoc tools won't be reusable, unless tool specific configu= ration or code modification are done for any used Enterprise Specific IE.= =20And what about if the tools are not updated?=20 A real life example that this draft would solve is mentioned in: http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html ...which also contains the motivation for this draft. Regards, Elisa >=20 > Juergen Quittek wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >> >>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >> elements by using option records that map data types to element identi= fiers. >> >> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >> data type of received information elements. This may in particular hap= pen >> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the= >> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet arr= ay. >> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately.= >> >> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using th= is >> method when IPFIX records are stored. >> >> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> IPFIX mailing list >> IPFIX@ietf.org >> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 *************************************************************************= *************************=20 E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer.=20 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are int= ended solely for the use=20 of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Access to this e= -mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copy= ing, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. E-m= ail messages are not=20 necessarily secure. Hitachi does not accept responsibility for any change= s made to this message=20 after it was sent.=20 Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the presence= =20of computer viruses.=20 *************************************************************************= ************************* ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html

...which also contains the motivation for this draft.

Regards,
Elisa


>
> Juergen Quittek wrote:
>> Dear all,
>>
>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt.
>>
>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi)
>>>    Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for En= terprise IEs; need to
>>>    specify what operations make sense for an = IE.
>>>    Support shown for this as a WG item, as fo= r File Format.
>>>    Milestones:  WG LC after IETF 70, to = IESG before IETF  71.
>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX informa= tion
>> elements by using option records that map data types to element = identifiers.
>>
>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not kno= w the
>> data type of received information elements. This may in particul= ar happen
>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this informati= on the
>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type oct= et array.
>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropri= ately.
>>
>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends us= ing this
>> method when IPFIX records are stored.
>>
>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item?
>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>     Juergen
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> IPFIX mailing list
>> IPFIX@ietf.org
>> https:/= /www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix
>

****************************************************************= **********************************
E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaime= r.=20

This email and any files transmitt= ed with it=20 are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or= =20entity=20 to which they are addressed. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient,any disclosure, copyi= ng,=20 distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it= , is=20 prohibited.
E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does n= ot=20 accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was=20 sent.

Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail message= s for=20 the presence of computer viruses.=20
*********************************************************************= *****************************

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7CFCF.1A50B147-- --===============1437712723== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============1437712723==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 18:08:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBVX-0000ZT-3B; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:08:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBVV-0000ZI-7x for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:08:29 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBVS-0001i3-5u for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:08:29 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2007 00:08:26 +0200 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149116859:sNHT195053562" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QM8OMp020718; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:08:24 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QM8Okt003660; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:08:24 GMT Received: from [10.21.127.227] (sjc-vpn6-2019.cisco.com [10.21.127.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12077; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:08:20 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A91B58.40909@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:08:24 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Trammell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=93109; t=1185487704; x=1186351704; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Review=3A=20draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04 |Sender:=20; bh=tGlfspVCDUfUKZ9xbha+MW1US9hPYWJrjQ/cJ3VOrkA=; b=MjNr9vPrALcS3lLe3QYtbAmCGYAkrGisHOKxzaviaysSVtvWqwJvaU4TKv0t7qNKS7y+I30C WQvnGpzPSWqcTTJ8ue9WUtBTId5ZhoaJIr3kHOKonueqy6tc/bB4FsKM; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 56e89b758a38944229c8153fc72e2933 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Review: draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Brian. Please see my comments inline. > > IPFIX Working Group B. Trammell > Internet-Draft CERT/NetSA > Intended status: Standards Track E. Boschi > Expires: January 10, 2008 Hitachi Europe > L. Mark > T. Zseby > Fraunhofer FOKUS > A. Wagner > ETH Zurich > July 9, 2007 > > > An IPFIX-Based File Format > draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04.txt > > Status of this Memo > > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > Drafts. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > This Internet-Draft will expire on January 10, 2008. > > Copyright Notice > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > Abstract > > This document describes a file format for the storage of flow data > based upon the IPFIX message format. It proposes a set of > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 1] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > requirements for flat-file, binary flow data file formats, evaluates > flow storage systems presently in use for their conformance to these > requirements, then applies the IPFIX message format to these > requirements to build a new file format. This IPFIX-based file > format is designed to facilitate interoperability and reusability > among a wide variety of flow storage, processing, and analysis tools. > > > Table of Contents > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > 3. Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > 4. Requirements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 4.1. Record Format Flexibility . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 4.2. Self Description . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 4.3. Data Compression . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 4.4. Indexing and Searching . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 4.5. Data Integrity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 4.6. Creator Authentication and Confidentiality . . . . . . . . 9 > 4.7. Anonymization and Obfuscation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 4.8. Performance Characteristics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 5. Survey of Existing Flow and Trace File Formats . . . . . . . . 11 > 5.1. NetFlow V5/V7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 5.2. Argus 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 5.3. SiLK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 5.4. libpcap dumpfile . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 6. IPFIX File Format Description . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 > 6.1. Recommended Information Elements for IPFIX Files . . . . . 15 > 6.1.1. collectionTimeMilliseconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 6.1.2. informationElementAnonymizationType . . . . . . . . . 16 > 6.1.3. maxExportSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 6.1.4. maxFlowEndSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 6.1.5. messageMD5Checksum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 6.1.6. messageScope . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 6.1.7. minExportSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > 6.1.8. minFlowStartSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > 6.1.9. sessionScope . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 > 6.2. Recommended Options Templates for IPFIX Files . . . . . . 19 > 6.2.1. Message Checksum Options Template . . . . . . . . . . 19 > 6.2.2. Template Anonymization Options Template . . . . . . . 20 > 6.2.3. File Time Window Options Template . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 6.2.4. Export Session Details Options Template . . . . . . . 22 > 6.2.5. Message Details Options Template . . . . . . . . . . . 23 > 6.3. Recommended Compression Error Resilience Strategy . . . . 25 > 6.4. Recommended Encryption Error Resilience Strategy . . . . . 27 > 7. Applicability of IPFIX Files . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > 7.1. Testing IPFIX Collecting Processes . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 2] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 7.2. Storage of IPFIX-collected Flow Data . . . . . . . . . . . 28 > 8. Examples . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 9. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 10. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 11. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > 12. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > 12.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > 12.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 34 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 3] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 1. Introduction > > This document proposes a file format based upon IPFIX. It begins by > exploring the motivation for proposing a standardized flow file > format, and using IPFIX as the basis for this new file format. It > then proposes a set of requirements for this file format, evaluates > existing flow storage file formats for their conformance to these > requirements, and describes either how the IPFIX message format meets > each requirement, or how a file format based upon it could meet the > requirement. It closes by proposing an initial specification of the "the" -> "a" > new file format and providing examples of IPFIX Files meeting this "Files" -> in the past we were avoiding capitalising terminology until after the terminology section, though I'm not sure whether this is a MUST or a SHOULD :-) Same for "Options" below BTW. > specification. This format makes use of the IPFIX Options mechanism > for additional file metadata, in order to avoid requiring any > protocol or message format extensions. > > > 2. Terminology > > Terms used in this document that are defined in the Terminology > section of the IPFIX Protocol [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] document are > to be interpreted as defined there. > > IPFIX File: An IPFIX File is a serialized stream of IPFIX Messages > stored on a filesystem. Any IPFIX Message stream that would be > considered valid when transported one or more of the specified "transported *on* one" > IPFIX transports (SCTP, TCP, or UDP) as defined in the IPFIX > Protocol draft [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] is considered an IPFIX > File for purposes of this draft; however, this draft further > restricts that definition with recommendations on the construction > of IPFIX Files that meet the requirements identified herein. > > IPFIX File Reader: An IPFIX File Reader is a Process which reads > IPFIX Files from a filesystem, and is analogous to an IPFIX > Collecting Process. An IPFIX File Reader MUST behave as an IPFIX > Collecting Process as outlined in the IPFIX Protocol draft > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], except as modified by this document. > > IPFIX File Writer: An IPFIX File Writer is a process which writes > IPFIX Files to a filesystem, and is analogous to an IPFIX > Exporting Process. An IPFIX File Writer MUST behave as an IPFIX > Exporting Process as outlined in the IPFIX Protocol draft > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], except as modified by this document. > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119]. > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 4] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 3. Motivation For this section, please cite references for every assertion. > > There are a wide variety of applications for the file-based storage > of IP flow data, across a continuum of time scales. Tools used in > the analysis of flow data and creation of analysis products often use > files as a convenient unit of work, with an ephemeral lifetime. A > set of flows relevant to a security investigation may be stored in a > file for the duration of that investigation, and futher exchanged > among incident handlers via email or within an external incident > handling workflow application. Sets of flow data relevant to > Internet measurement research may be published as files, much as > libpcap packet trace files are, to provide common data sets for the > repeatability of research efforts; these files would have lifetimes > measured in months or years. Operational flow measurement systems > also have a need for long-term, archival storage of flow data, either > as a primary flow data repository, or as a backing tier for online > storage in a relational database management system (RDBMS). > > The variety of applications of flow data, and the variety of > presently deployed storage approaches, would seem to indicate the > need for a standard approach to flow storage with applicability > across the continuum of time scales over which flow data is stored. > A storage format based around flat files would best address the > variety of storage requirements. While much work has been done on Can you justify this? > structured storage via RDBMS, relational database systems are not a > good basis for format standardization owing to the fact that their > internal data structures are generally private to a single > implementation and subject to change for internal reasons. Also, > there are a wide variety of operations available on flat files, and > external tools and standards can be leveraged to meet file-based flow > storage requiremenets. Further, flow data is often not very Typo, "requiremenets." Can you justify "often"? Perhaps cite refs. > semantically complicated, is managed in very high volume, and > therefore an RDBMS-based flow storage system would not benefit much > from the advantages of relational database technology. > > The simplest way to create a new file format is simply to serialize > some internal data model to disk, with either textual or binary > representation of data elements, and some framing strategy for > delimiting fields and records. "Ad-hoc" file formats such as this > have several important disadvantages. One, they impose the semantics > of the data model from which they are derived on the file format; as > such, they are difficult to extend, describe, and standardize. > > Over the past decade XML markup has emerged as a new "universal" > representation format for structured data. It is intended to be > human-readable; indeed, that is one reason for its rapid adoption. > However XML has limited usefulness for representing network flow > data. Network flow data has a simple, repetitive, non-hierarchical > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 5] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > structure that does not benefit much from XML. An XML representation > of flow data would be an essentially flat list of the attributes and > their values for each flow record. At the same time network flow > data has well-defined semantics, required to do any meaningful > processing; these semantics are not known to typical XML tools. Give examples of processing? eg, "such as ..." > > The XML approach to data encoding is very heavyweight when compared > to binary flow encoding. While binary flow encodings use a small > number of (or even just one) flat data structures that are entirely "use a small number of flat data structures (or even just one)" > sufficient to encode flow data, XML uses start- and end-tags, and > plain-text encoding of the actual values. This leads to significant > inefficiency in encoding size. Typical network flow datasets can > contain millions or billions of flows per hour of traffic > represented. Any increase in storage size per record can have > dramatic impact on flow data storage and transfer sizes. While data > compression algorithms can partially remove the redundancy introduced > by XML encoding, they introduce additional overhead of their own. > > A further problem is that XML processing tools require a full XML > parser. XML parsers are fully general and therefore complex, > resource-intensive and relatively slow. Since network flow datasets > can be very large, XML parsing introduces significant processing time > overhead. At the same time, parsers for typical binary flow data > encoding are simply structured, since they only need to parse a very > small header and then have complete knowledge of all following fields > for the particular flow. These can then be read in a very efficient > linear fashion without the need for any further decisions. The Do you include variable length fields in that assertion too? > overhead from encoding flow data with XML may well be prohibitive for > processing steps that are easily done with standard binary flow > encodings. At the same time XML encoding offers no discernible > advantage to the flow storage use case. > > This leads us to propose the IPFIX message format as the basis for a Is this a proposal or a standard? > new flow data file format. The IPFIX working group, in defining the > IPFIX protocol, has already defined an information model and data > formatting rules for representation of flow data. Especially at > shorter time scales, when a file is a unit of data interchange, the > filesystem may be viewed as simply another IPFIX message transport > between processes. This format is especially well suited to > representing flow data, as it was designed specifically for flow data > export; it is easily extensible unlike ad-hoc serialization, and > compact unlike XML. In addition, IPFIX is an emerging standard for > the export and collection of flow data; using a common format for > storage and analysis at the collection side allows implementors to > use substantially the same information model and data formatting > implementation for transport as well as storage. > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 6] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 4. Requirements > > In this section, we outline a proposed set of requirements > [SAINT2007] for any persistent storage format for flow data. First > and foremost, a flow data file format should support storage across > the continuum of time scales important to flow storage applications. > Each of the requirements enumerated in the sections below is broadly > applicable to flow storage applications, though each may be more > important at certain time scales. For each, we first identify the > requirement, then explain how the IPFIX message format addresses it, > or briefly outline the changes that must be made in order for an > IPFIX-based file format to meet the requirement. > > 4.1. Record Format Flexibility > > Due to the wide variety of flow attributes collected by different > network flow attribute measurement systems, the ideal flow storage > format will not impose a single data model or a specific record type > on the flows it stores. The file format must be flexible and > extensible; that is, it must support multiple record types definable > within the file itself, and must be able to support new field types > for data within the records in a graceful way. > > IPFIX provides extensibility through the use of Templates to describe > each Data Record, through the use of an IANA Registry to define its > Information Elements, and through the use of enterprise-specific > Information Elements. > > 4.2. Self Description > > Archived data may be read at a time in the future where any external > reference to the meaning of the data may be lost. The ideal flow > storage format should be self-describing; that is, a process reading "should be"? Ideally it *is*. > flow data from storage should be able to properly interpret the > stored flows without reference to anything other than standard > sources (e.g., the standards document describing the file format) and > the stored flow data itself. > > The IPFIX message format is partially self-describing; that is, IPFIX > Templates containing only IANA-assigned Information Elements can be > completely interpreted according to the IPFIX Information Model > without additional external data. > > However, Templates containing private information elements lack "private" -> "Enterprise Specific". Also again below. "Information Elements" > detailed type and semantic information; a Collecting Process > receiving data described by a template containing private Information > Elements it does not understand can only treat the data contained > within those Information Elements as octet arrays. To be fully self- > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 7] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > describing, Enterprise-Specific Information Elements must be "must be" -> this is certainly one option, though not the only possible one. > additionally described via IPFIX Options according to the Information > Element Semantics Options Template defined in "Extended Type > Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type]. > > 4.3. Data Compression > > Regardless of the representation format, flow data describing traffic > on real networks tends to be highly compressible. Compression tends References! > to improve the scalability of flow collection systems, by reducing > the disk storage and I/O bandwidth requirement for a given workload. - while increasing CPU requirements. > The ideal flow storage format should support applications which wish Should? > to leverage this fact by supporting compression of stored data. > > The IPFIX message format has no support for data compression, as the > IPFIX protocol was designed for speed and simplicity of export. Of > course, any flat file is readily compressible using a wide variety of > external data compression tools, formats, and algorithms; therefore, > this requirement can be met externally. "external data compression tools" implies the file has already been made - in which case the I/O mentioned above is irrelevant. > > However, a couple of simple optimizations can be made by File Writers > to increase the integrity and usability of compressed IPFIX data; > these are outlined in the Recommended Compression Strategy section, It's the "Recommended Compression Error Resilience Strategy" section. > which appears below. > > 4.4. Indexing and Searching > > Binary, record stream oriented file formats natively support only one > form of searching, sequential scan in file order. By choosing the > order of records in a file carefully (e.g., by flow start or flow end "By choosing to order records in" > time), a file can be indexed by a single key. Multiple keys could be used, ie primary and secondary. > > Beyond this, properly addressing indexing is an application-specific > problem, as it inherently involves tradeoffs between storage > complexity and retrieval speed, and requirements vary widely based on > time scales and the types of queries used from site to site. > However, a generic standard flow storage format may provide limited "may"? Is it a SHOULD? > direct support for indexing and searching. > > The ideal flow storage format will support a limited table of "will"? Is it a MUST? > contents facility noting that the records in a file contain data > relating only to certain keys or values of keys, in order to keep > multi-file search implementations from having to scan a file for data > it does not contain. > > The IPFIX message format has no direct support for indexing. > However, its template mechanism and the technique described in > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 8] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > "Reducing Redundancy in IPFIX and PSAMP Reports" > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy] can be used to describe the > contents of a file in a limited way. Additionally, as flow data is > often sorted and divided by time, the start and end time of the flows > in a file may be declared using the File Time Window Options Record > defined below. > > 4.5. Data Integrity > > When storing flow data over long time scales, especially for archival > purposes, it is important to ensure that hardware or software faults > do not introduce errors into the data over time. The ideal flow > storage format will support the detection and correction of encoding- "will"? Plus many times below too. Consider whether RFC 2119 language would be more appropriate - because what I hear is you describing a product you've built, rather than writing the requirements or spec for it. > level errors in the data. > > Note that more advanced error correction is almost certainly best What about error detection? > handled at a layer below that addressed by this document. Error > correction is a topic well addressed by the storage industry in > general (e.g. by RAID and other technolgies), and by specifying a > flow storage format based upon files, we can leverage these features > to meet this requirement. > > However, the ideal flow storage format will be resilient against > errors, providing an internal facility for the detection of errors > and the ability to isolate errors to as few data records as possible. > > Note that this requirement interacts with the choice of data > compression or encryption algorithm. The use of block compression > algorithms can serve to isolate errors to a single compression block, > unlike stream compressors, which may fail to resynchronize after a > single bit error, invalidating the entire message stream. Similarly, > the use of a stream cipher can serve to isloate errors in the > plaintext without amplifying them as, for example, a cipher in CBC References please! > mode can. See the "Recommended Compression Error Resilience > Strategy" and "Recommended Encryption Error Resilience Strategy" > sections below for more on this interaction. > > The IPFIX message format does not support data integrity assurance. > It is assumed that advanced error correction will be provided > externally. For simple error detection support, checksums may be > attached to messages via IPFIX Options according to the Message > Checksum Options Template defined below. I'd much prefer a csum IE. > > 4.6. Creator Authentication and Confidentiality > > Storage of flow data across long time scales may also require > assurance that no unauthorized entity can read or modify the stored > data. Asymmetric-key cryptography can be applied to this problem, by > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 9] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > signing flow data with the private key of the creator, and encrypting > it with the public keys of those authorized to read it. The ideal > flow storage format will support the encryption and signing of flow > data. > > As with error correction, this problem has been addressed well at a > layer below that addressed by this document. Instead of specifying a Refs? > particular choice of encryption technology, we can leverage the fact > that existing cryptographic technologies work quite well on data "quite well"? > stored in files to meet this requirement. > > Beyond support for the use of TLS for transport over TCP or DTLS for > transport over SCTP or UDP, both of which provide transient > authentication and confidentiality, the IPFIX protocol does not > support this requirement directly. It is assumed that this "It is assumed"? -> "This requirement MUST" > requirement will be met externally. > > 4.7. Anonymization and Obfuscation > > To ensure the privacy of individuals and organizations at the > endpoints of communications represented by flow records, it is often > necessary to obfuscate or anonymize stored and exported flow data. > The ideal flow storage format will provide for a notation that a > given information element on a given record type represents > anonymized, rather than real, data. > > The IPFIX message format presently has no support for anonymization > notation. It should be noted that anonymization is one of the > requirements given for IPFIX in RFC 3917 [RFC3917]. The decision to > qualify this requirement with 'MAY' and not 'MUST' in the > requirements document, and its subsequent lack of specification in > the current version of the IPFIX protocol, is due to the fact that > anonymization algorithms are still a research issue, and that there > currently exist no standardized methods for anonymization. > > Simple anonymization notation may be attached to templates via IPFIX > Options according to the Template Anonymization Options Template > defined below. > > 4.8. Performance Characteristics > > The ideal standard flow storage format will not have a significant > negative impact on the performance of the application implementing > it. This is a non-functional requirement, but it is important to > note that a standard that implies a performance penalty is unlikely > to be widely implemented and adopted. > > A static analysis of the IPFIX message format would seem to suggest > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 10] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > that implementations of it are not particularly prone to slowness; > indeed, a template-based data representation is more easily subject > to optimization for common cases than representations that embed > structural information directly in the data stream (e.g. XML). > However, a full analysis of the impact of using IPFIX messages as a > basis for flow data storage on read/write performance will require > more implementation experience and performance measurement. > > > 5. Survey of Existing Flow and Trace File Formats Who selected these formats and why? How was the selection made? > > 5.1. NetFlow V5/V7 I think we use lowercase v: v5 and v7. Do you consider that v7 is widely used? > > One de facto standard for the storage of flow data collected via > Cisco NetFlow V5 or V7 is to serialize a stream of "raw" NetFlow > datagrams into files. These NetFlow PDU files consist of a > collection of header- prefixed blocks (corresponding to the datagrams > as received on the wire) containing fixed-length binary flow records. > NetFlow V5 and V7 data may be mixed within a given file, as the > header on each datagram defines the NetFlow version of the records > following; there is indeed very little difference between the two > record formats. > > NetFlow V5/V7 PDU files are neither extensible nor self-describing; > however, their status as a de facto standard means the definition of > the data format is well-understood. Indexing, compression, error > detection and correction, authentication, and confidentiality must be > handled externally. > > 5.2. Argus 2 > > QoSient's Argus (as of version 2.0.6) uses a file format based upon a > stream of type-and-length prefixed records. There are two general > types of records in this stream, management records and flow records. > Management records export flow collection statistics, much like the > recommended scoped data records in the IPFIX protocol. Flow records > contain information about a single flow each, and are further typed > based upon the protocol of the flow (e.g., IP, ICMP, ARP). The Argus > file format natively spports bidirectional flow export, as each flow > record contains both forward and reverse counters. > > The Argus tools support a transport protocol that simply encapsulates > a record stream over a TCP connection. Transport is collector- > initiated; that is, a collector establishes a connection to an > exporter in order to read a record stream. > > Argus files are not self-describing; that is, only the Argus tools > themselves encapsulate the definition of each of the record types. > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 11] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > The Argus file format is not extensible without changing the Argus > implementation. Argus provides no indexing facility for its file > format, though records are roughly sorted by record generation time. > Compression, error correction, authentication, and confidentiality > are handled externally to the format, and are available as with all > files. There is no special support for data obfuscation in the > format. > > 5.3. SiLK > > The CERT/NetSA SiLK tools use a set of fixed-length binary record > formats. Each file is prefixed with a header which denotes which > record format the file is stored in. These record formats are > differentiated by the presence or absence of certain fields; in this > way, each format identifier is essentially a short-hand identifier > for a template describing the record. This also implies that only > one type of record may be stored in any given file. > > As with Argus, SiLK files are not self-describing and are not > extensible. SiLK provides no indexing facility, though files are > generally stored in flow end time order; and when used for archival > storage, information about sensors and flow times appearing in each > file is stored in the file path name. Compression is handled Actually this can be done for any format here. > internally to the file format, and allows the storage of compressed > data in a file with uncompressed headers, and a guarantee of > compression block boundary alignment with record boundaries. Error > correction, authentication, and confidentiality can be handled > externally. There is no special support for data obfuscation in the obfuscation? Which IPFIX calls anonymisation? > SiLK file format. > > 5.4. libpcap dumpfile > > The libpcap dumpfile format is a packet trace format rather than a > flow file format, so it does not address any of the requirements > outlined above. However, it is used widely in a use case (data > storage and distribution for network measurement research) similar to > one addressed by the format proposed in this draft, so we include it > here. > > libpcap dumpfiles consist of a file header containing information > common to the whole file (most importantly, the datalink layer, for > interpretation of the datalink headers on each frame), followed by a > set of raw captured frame records each prefixed by a frame header > containing timestamp and length information. The format is not > particularly flexible or self-describing, nor does it need to be: > undecoded frames are about as semantically simple as network traffic > data can get. > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 12] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > However, the simplicity and ubiquity of the libpcap dumpfile format > has led to its becoming a de facto standard for the distribution of > packet trace data for Internet measurement applications. We propose > the file format described in this draft in part as an analogue to the > libpcap dumpfile format for flow data. > > Note that libpcap dumpfiles could be used as a storage format for any > unidirectional, datagram-oriented protocol such as IPFIX or NetFlow, > simply by storing the captured export session. However, this has > several important drawbacks. First, the additional per-packet > headers provided by pcap are redundant in the case of IPFIX, as > length and export time are already available in the IPFIX Message > Header. Second, the link, network, and transport layer headers are > stored in a dumpfile; these are not necessary for the successful > interpretation of an IPFIX Message, and add additional decode > overhead. Third, a file created by capturing an export session may > require additional processing to reassemble fragmented datagrams in > the message stream. > > > 6. IPFIX File Format Description > > An IPFIX file, as defined by this draft and elaborated below, is at > its core simply an IPFIX Message stream serialized to some > filesystem. Any valid serialized IPFIX Message stream MUST be > accepted by a File Reader as a valid IPFIX file. In this way, the > filesystem is simply treated as another IPFIX Transport alongside > SCTP, TCP, and UDP, although one with unusually high latency, as the > File Reader and File Writer are not necessarily synchronized in time, > unlike IPFIX Collecting and Exporting Processes. The EP and CP are not synch'd at all. > > An IPFIX File Reader MUST accept as valid any IPFIX message stream > that would be considered valid by one or more of the other defined > IPFIX transport layers. Practically, this means that the union of > template management features supported by SCTP, TCP, and UDP MUST be > supported in IPFIX Files. The following requirements apply to IPFIX > File Readers: > > o File Readers MUST accept IPFIX Messages containing Template Sets, > Options Template Sets, and Data Sets within the same message, as > with IPFIX over TCP or UDP. > > o File Readers MUST accept Template Sets that define templates > already defined within the file, as may occur with template > retransmission when using IPFIX over UDP as described in section > 10.3.6 of the IPFIX Protocol draft [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. In > the event of a conflict between a resent definition and a previous > definition, the File Reader MUST assume that the new template > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 13] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > replaces the old, as consistent with UDP template expiration and > ID reuse. > > o File Readers MUST accept Template Withdrawals as described in > section 8 of the IPFIX Protocol draft [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], > provided that the Template to be withdrawn is defined, as is the > case with IPFIX over TCP and SCTP. I'm thinking that FILE is essentially a layer below EP / CP but above transport, something like this: +------+ +------+ | EP | | CP | +------+--------+------+ | File | +----------------------+ | transport | +----------------------+ > > However, for representation simplicity and read performance, File > Writers SHOULD use the following template and scope management > strategy: > > o File Writers SHOULD emit Template Sets and Options Template Sets I think this is a MUST, since data ahead of the necessary Templates could be discarded and is therefore of no value. Or put another way, if the Template is in the file somewhere, rewrite the file to put the Template at the start. > to appear at the beginning of the file, before any Data Sets, to > ensure all Templates are available and can be inspected before any > data is read. If the set of Templates used within a File is not > known when the File Writer starts writing the File, the File > Writer MAY interleave Template Sets and Options Template Sets with > Data Sets within the File, but SHOULD write each Template Set or > Options Template Set before any Data Set described by that > Template. > > o File Writers SHOULD emit special Data Records described by Options > Templates at the beginning of the file after Template Sets and > Options Template Sets as above, but before any other Data Records, > in the following order: > > * Time window order records described by the File Time Window > Options Template as defined in section 6.2.3 below; followed by > > * commonPropertiesId definitions as described in "Reducing > Redundancy in IPFIX and PSAMP Reports" > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy]; followed by > > * Semantics records as described in "Extended Type Information > for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type]; followed by > > * Anonymization notation records described by the Template > Anonymization Options Template as defined in section 6.2.2 > below. > > o File Writers SHOULD emit Data Records described by Options Again, MUST. > Templates to appear in the file before any Data Records which > depend on the scopes defined by those options. > > o File Writers SHOULD use Template Withdrawals to withdraw Templates Again, MUST. > if template IDs need to be reused. In this case, the new You'd have to generate them for UDP, because they won't exist. > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 14] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Templates reusing those IDs SHOULD appear directly in the file > after the Template Withdrawals making the IDs available for reuse. > Template Withdrawals SHOULD NOT be used unless necessary to reuse > template IDs. Why? > > Each IPFIX File is generally synonymous with a single Transport > Session. File Writers SHOULD store the Templates and Options > required to decode the data within the File in the File itself, and > File Readers SHOULD NOT use Templates or Options defined in one file > to decode or interpret Data Sets in another. What if I want to save each SCTP stream to a different file? > > However, some applications, particularly those storing large > collections of data over long periods of time, may benefit from the > ability to treat a collection of IPFIX Files as a single Transport > Session. A File Reader MAY be configurable to treat a collection of > Files (e.g., all the files in a directory) as a single Transport > Session. However, a File Reader MUST NOT treat a single IPFIX File > as containing multiple Transport Sessions. So we need a new file if/when the Transport Session shuts down? > > File Writers SHOULD write IPFIX Messages within an IPFIX File in > ascending Export Time order. If a File Writer is writing data Here, ascending order. Below... > collected from an IPFIX Collecting Process, the Export Time SHOULD be > the export time as reported by the remote IPFIX Exporting Process; > otherwise, the Export Time should be the time at which the message > was written to the file. > > By default, File Writers MAY write records to an IPFIX File in any > order. However, File Writers that write flow records to an IPFIX ... any order. Confusing. > File in flowStartTime or flowEndTime order SHOULD be consistent in > this ordering within each File. Why? And which are we recommending here, if it's a standard? > > If an IPFIX File uses the technique described in "Reducing Redundancy > in IPFIX and PSAMP Reports" [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy] AND > all of the non-Options Templates in the File contain the Do you mean "contain *only* the" ? > commonPropertiesId Information Element, a File Reader MAY assume the > set of commonPropertiesId definitions provides a complete table of > contents for the file, for searching purposes. > > 6.1. Recommended Information Elements for IPFIX Files > > The following information elements are used by the options templates > below to allow IPFIX message streams to meet the requirements > outlined above without extension to the message format or protocol. > IPFIX File Readers and Writers SHOULD support these Information MUST? > Elements as defined below. > > In addition, IPFIX File Readers and Writers SHOULD support the > Information Elements defined in "Extended Type Information for IPFIX > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 15] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type] in order to support self-description > of Enterprise-Specific Information Elements and anonymization > notation. > > 6.1.1. collectionTimeMilliseconds > > Description: The absolute timestamp at which the data within the > scope containing this IE was received by a Collecting Process. When an Exporting Process writes to a file, there's no CP time. > This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX Message via an > options record and the messageScope IE, as defined below. Say where, ie 6.1.6. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeMilliseconds > > ElementId: TBD1 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.1.2. informationElementAnonymizationType It's a flag, not a type. > > Description: A description of the anonymization status of an IPFIX > information element within a template. If this field is FALSE, "Template" > the corresponding IE is not anonymized; to the best ability of the > Exporting Process to determine, it represents a real value. If > this field is TRUE, the corresponding IE is anonymized; to the > best ability of the Exporting Process to determine, it represents > a value that has been transformed to maintain privacy. Note that > if no informationElementAnonymizationType is specified for an > information element, it is assumed to be FALSE, or not anonymized. "Information Element" > > Abstract Data Type: boolean > > ElementId: TBD2 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.1.3. maxExportSeconds > > Description: The absolute Export Time of the latest IPFIX message > within the scope containing this IE. This IE SHOULD be bound to > its containing IPFIX Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options > record and the sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD Say where, ie 6.1.9. > appear only once in a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 16] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > ElementId: TBD3 > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds Does this give good granularity? > > 6.1.4. maxFlowEndSeconds > > Description: The latest absolute timestamp of the last packet > within any Flow within the scope containing this IE, rounded up to > the second. This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX > Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options record and the > sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD appear only once in > a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > ElementId: TBD4 > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds Again, does this give good granularity? > > 6.1.5. messageMD5Checksum > > Description: The MD5 checksum of the IPFIX Message containing this > record. This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX Message > via an options record and the messageScope IE, as defined below, Eeuuwww. The message should directly contain its own csum IE. For "below", again say where. > and SHOULD appear only once in a given IPFIX Message. To Split to a new paragraph here. > calculate the value of this IE, first buffer the containing IPFIX > Message, setting the value of this IE to all zeroes. Then > caluclate the MD5 checksum of the resulting buffer as defined in > RFC 1321 [RFC1321], place the resulting value in this IE, and > export the buffered message. > > Abstract Data Type: octetArray (16 bytes) > > ElementId: TBD5 > > Status: Proposed > > Reference: RFC 1321, The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm [RFC1321] > > 6.1.6. messageScope > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 17] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Description: The presence of this Information Element as scope in > an Options Template signifies that the options described by the > Template apply to the IPFIX Message that contains them. It is > defined for general purpose message scoping of options, and > proposed specifically to allow the attachment a checksum to a > message via IPFIX Options. The value of this Information Element > MUST be written as 0 by the File Writer or Exporting Process. The > value of this Information Element MUST be ignored by the File > Reader or the Collecting Process. > > Abstract Data Type: octet The size should really be zero, right? > > ElementId: TBD6 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.1.7. minExportSeconds > > Description: The absolute Export Time of the earliest IPFIX message > within the scope containing this IE. This IE SHOULD be bound to > its containing IPFIX Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options > record and the sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD > appear only once in a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > ElementId: TBD7 > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds > > 6.1.8. minFlowStartSeconds > > Description: The earliest absolute timestamp of the first packet > within any Flow within the scope containing this IE, rounded down > to the second. This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX > Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options record and the > sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD appear only once in > a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > ElementId: TBD8 > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 18] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds > > 6.1.9. sessionScope > > Description: The presence of this Information Element as scope in > an Options Template signifies that the options described by the > Template apply to the IPFIX Transport Session that contains them. > Note that as all options are implicitly scoped to Transport > Session and Observation Domain, this Information Element is > equivalent to a "null" scope. It is defined for general purpose > session scoping of options, and proposed specifically to allow the > attachment of time window to a file via IPFIX Options. The value Split to a new paragraph. > of this Information Element MUST be written as 0 by the File > Writer or Exporting Process. The value of this Information > Element MUST be ignored by the File Reader or the Collecting > Process. > > Abstract Data Type: octet Again, the size should really be zero, right? > > ElementId: TBD9 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.2. Recommended Options Templates for IPFIX Files > > The following Options Templates allow IPFIX message streams to meet > the requirements outlined above without extension to the message > format or protocol. They are defined in terms of existing > Information Elements defined in the IPFIX Information Model > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info], the extended type Information Elements defined > in "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific > Information Elements" [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type], as well as > Information Elements defined in the section above. IPFIX File Say which section above. > Readers and Writers SHOULD support these options templates as defined > below. > > In addition, IPFIX File Readers and Writers SHOULD support the > Options Templates defined in "Extended Type Information for IPFIX > Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type] in order to support self-description > of enterprise-specific Information Elements. > > 6.2.1. Message Checksum Options Template > > The Message Checksum Options Template specifies the structure of a > Data Record for attaching an MD5 message checksum to an IPFIX > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 19] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Message. An MD5 message checksum as described MAY be used if long- > term data integrity is important to the application. The described > Data Record MUST appear only once per IPFIX Message. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements: > > +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > | messageScope | A marker denoting this Option applies to the | > | | whole IPFIX message; content is ignored. | > | | This Information Element MUST be defined as | > | | a Scope Field. | Consider inserting some vertical whitespace here to make these more readable. > | messageMD5Checksum | The MD5 checksum of the containing IPFIX | > | | Message. | > +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > > 6.2.2. Template Anonymization Options Template > > The Template Anonymization Options Template specifies the structure > of a Data Record for attaching anonymization notation information to > Information Elements in specified Template Records. A Data Record > described by this Template SHOULD appear for each Information Element > within a Template known by the Exporting Process or File Writer to > contain anonymized data. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements: > > +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ > | templateId | The Template ID of the | > | | template this record | > | | describes; it is assumed to | > | | be valid within the | > | | Observation Domain ID of | > | | the containing IPFIX | > | | Message, and MUST identify | > | | a Template that has already | > | | been exported. This | > | | Information Element MUST be | > | | defined as a Scope Field. | > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 20] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | informationElementId | The Information Element | > | | identifier of the | > | | Information Element within | > | | the specified Template this | > | | record describes. This | > | | Information Element MUST be | > | | defined as a Scope Field. | > | privateEnterpriseNumber | The Private Enterprise | > | | number of the Information | > | | Element within the | > | | specified Template this | > | | record describes. May be 0 | > | | if this record describes a | > | | public Information Element. | > | | This Information Element | > | | MUST be defined as a Scope | > | | Field. | Put the PEN last so it can be omitted if zero. > | informationElementAnonymizationType | The anonymization type of | > | | the specified Information | > | | Element. | > +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ > > 6.2.3. File Time Window Options Template > > The File Time Window Options Template specifies the structure of a > Data Record for attaching a time window to an IPFIX File; this Data > Record is referred to as a time window record. A time window record > defines the earliest flow start time and the latest flow end time of > the flow records within a File. One and only one time window record > MAY appear within an IPFIX File if the time window information is > available; a File Writer MUST NOT write more than one time window > record to an IPFIX File. A File Writer that writes a time window > record to a File MUST NOT write any Flow with a start time before the > beginning of the window or an end time after the end of the window to > that File. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements: > > +---------------------+---------------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +---------------------+---------------------------------------------+ > | sessionScope | A marker denoting this Option applies to | > | | the whole IPFIX Transport Session (i.e., | > | | IPFIX File); content is ignored. This | > | | Information Element MUST be defined as a | > | | Scope Field. | > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 21] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | minFlowStartSeconds | The start time of the earliest flow in the | > | | Transport Session (i.e., File) in epoch | > | | seconds. | > | maxFlowEndSeconds | The end time of the latest flow in the | > | | Transport Session (i.e., File) in epoch | > | | seconds. | > +---------------------+---------------------------------------------+ > > 6.2.4. Export Session Details Options Template > > The Export Session Details Options Template specifies the structure > of a Data Record for recording the details of an IPFIX Transport > Session in an IPFIX File. It is intended for use in storing a single > complete IPFIX Transport Session in a single IPFIX File. The > described Data Record SHOULD appear only once in a given IPFIX File. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements, > subject to applicability as noted on each Information Element: > > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | sessionScope | A marker denoting this Option | > | | applies to the whole IPFIX Transport | > | | Session (i.e., IPFIX File); content | > | | is ignored. This Information | > | | Element MUST be defined as a Scope | > | | Field. | > | exporterIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv4 | > | | interface. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Exporting Process. | > | exporterIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv6 | > | | interface. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Exporting Process. | > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 22] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | exporterTransportPort | The source port from which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. | > | collectorIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv4 interface. For multi-homed | > | | SCTP associations, this SHOULD be | > | | the primary path endpoint address of | > | | the Collecting Process. | > | collectorIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv6 interface. For multi-homed | > | | SCTP associations, this SHOULD be | > | | the primary path endpoint address of | > | | the Collecting Process. | > | collectorTransportPort | The destination port on which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. | > | collectorTransportProtocol | The IP Protocol Identifier of the | > | | transport protocol used to transport | > | | Messages within this Transport | > | | Session. | However, it's not specific to the Collector. > | collectorProtocolVersion | The version of the IPFIX Protocol | > | | used to transport Messages within | > | | this Transport Session. | And again. Also below. > | minExportSeconds | The Export Time of the first Message | > | | in the Transport Session. | > | maxExportSeconds | The Export Time of the last Message | > | | in the Transport Session. | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > > 6.2.5. Message Details Options Template > > The Message Details Options Template specifies the structure of a > Data Record for attaching additional export details to an IPFIX > Message. These details include the time at which a message was > received and information about the export and collection > infrastructure used to transport the Message. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements, > subject to applicability as noted for each Information Element. Note > that when used in conjunction with the Export Session Details Options > Template, when storing a single complete IPFIX Transport Session in > an IPFIX File, this template SHOULD contain only the messageScope and > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 23] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > collectionTimeMilliseconds Information Elements. > > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | messageScope | A marker denoting this Option | > | | applies to the whole IPFIX message; | > | | content is ignored. This | > | | Information Element MUST be defined | > | | as a Scope Field. | > | collectionTimeMilliseconds | The absolute time at which this | > | | Message was received by the IPFIX | > | | Collecting Process. | > | exporterIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv4 | > | | interface, and if this information | > | | is not available via the Export | > | | Session Details Options Template. | > | | For multi-homed SCTP associations, | > | | this SHOULD be the primary path | > | | endpoint address of the Exporting | > | | Process. | > | exporterIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv6 | > | | interface, and if this information | > | | is not available via the Export | > | | Session Details Options Template. | > | | For multi-homed SCTP associations, | > | | this SHOULD be the primary path | > | | endpoint address of the Exporting | > | | Process. | > | exporterTransportPort | The source port from which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. Present only if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. | > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 24] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | collectorIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv4 interface, and if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Collecting Process. | > | collectorIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv6 interface, and if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Collecting Process. | > | collectorTransportPort | The destination port on which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. Present only if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. | > | collectorTransportProtocol | The IP Protocol Identifier of the | > | | transport protocol used to transport | > | | Messages within this Transport | > | | Session. Present only if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. | > | collectorProtocolVersion | The version of the IPFIX Protocol | > | | used to transport Messages within | > | | this Transport Session. Present | > | | only if this information is not | > | | available via the Export Session | > | | Details Options Template. | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > > 6.3. Recommended Compression Error Resilience Strategy > > Note that, since any file may be compressed and decompressed with a > variety of widely available tools implementing a variety of > compression standards (both specified and de facto), compression of > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 25] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > IPFIX File data can be accomplished externally. However, compression > at the file level is not particularly resilient to errors; in the > worst case, a single bit error in a stream-compressed file may result > in the loss of the entire file. > > To limit the impact of errors on the recoverability of compressed > data, we recommend the use of block compression where possible. > Ideally, the block compression algorithm should support the > identification and isolation of blocks containing errors; bzip2 is an > example of such a block compressor. > > Since the block boundary of a block-compressed IPFIX File may fall in > the middle of an IPFIX Message, resynchronization of an IPFIX Message > stream by a File Reader after a compression error requires some care. > The beginning of an IPFIX Message may be identified by its header > signature (the Version field of the Message Header, 0x00 0x0A, > followed by a 16-bit Message Length), but simply searching for the > first occurance of the Version field is insufficient, since these two > bytes may occur in valid IPFIX Template or Data Sets. > > Therefore, we propose the following algorithm for File Readers to > resynchronize an IPFIX Message Stream after skipping a compressed > block containing errors: > > 1. Search after the error for the first occurance of the byte string > 0x00, 0x0A (the IPFIX Message Header Version field.) > > 2. Treat this field as the beginning of a candidate IPFIX Message. > Read the two bytes following the Version field as a Message > Length, and seek to that offset from the beginning of the > candidate IPFIX Message. > > 3. If the first two bytes after the candidate IPFIX Message are > 0x00, 0x0A (i.e., the IPFIX Message Header Version field of the > next message in the stream), or if the end of the file is reached > precisely at the end of the candidate IPFIX Message, presume that > the candidate IPFIX Message is valid, and begin reading the IPFIX > File from the start of the candidate IPFIX Message. I think this is insufficient: one should iterate over the entire message to the end to be sure. > > 4. If not, or if the seek reaches end-of-file or another block > containing errors before finding the end of the candidate > message, go back to step 1, starting the search two bytes from > the start of the candidate IPFIX Message. > > The algorithm above will improperly identify a non-message as a > message approximately 1 in 2^32 times, assuming random IPFIX data. > It may be expanded to consider multiple candidate IPFIX Messages in > order to increase reliability. It should be, since the random nature of the data means it'll probably fail 9 times out of 10. > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 26] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > In applications (e.g. archival storage) in which error resilience is > very important, File Writers SHOULD use block compression algorithms, > and MAY attempt to align IPFIX Messages within compression blocks to > ease resynchronization after errors, if such is supported by the > chosen block compressor. File Readers SHOULD use the > resynchronization algorithm above to minimize data loss due to > compression errors. > > 6.4. Recommended Encryption Error Resilience Strategy > > File-level encryption has error resiliency issues similar to file- > level compression. Single bit errors in the encrypted data stream > can result in unreadability of the entire remaining file, dependent > on the encryption method used. The use of CBC (Cipher Block > Chaining) mode, which suffers from this low error resilience, is > relatively common. > > In applications (e.g. archival storage) in which error resilience is > very important, File Writers SHOULD use a stream cipher, for example > a block cipher in OFB (Output Feedback) mode (often referred to as > stream mode) instead of modes like CBC when encrypting, since errors > are not amplified by stream ciphers: A single-bit error in the > ciphertext results in a single bit error in the plaintext. > Alternatively File Writers SHOULD use any other cipher which can > resynchronize after bit errors. An example is a block cipher in CBC > mode that is reinitialized after a specific amount of data has been > encrypted. The maximum data loss per bit-error is then up to the > next reinitialization point. In this case, File Writers SHOULD also > use the Message Checksum Options Template to attach a checksum to > each IPFIX Message in the IPFIX File, in order to support the > recognition of errors in the decrypted data. > > > 7. Applicability of IPFIX Files > > This section describes the specific applicability of IPFIX Files to > various use cases. IPFIX Files are particularly useful in a flow > collection and processing infrastructure using IPFIX for flow export. > We explore the applicability and provide guidelines for using IPFIX > files during the implementation and operation of IPFIX Collecting > Processes. > > 7.1. Testing IPFIX Collecting Processes > > IPFIX Files can be used to store IPFIX Messages for the testing of > IPFIX Collecting Processes. A variety of test cases may be stored in > IPFIX Files. First, IPFIX data sets collected in real network > environments and stored in an IPFIX File can be used as input to > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 27] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > check the behavior of new or extended implementations of IPFIX > Collectors. Furthermore, IPFIX Files could be used to validate the > operation of a given IPFIX Collecting Process in a new environment, > i.e., to test with recorded IPFIX data from the target network before > installing the Collecting Process in the network. > > The IPFIX File format can also be used to store artificial, non- > compliant reference messages for specific Collecting Process test > cases. Examples for such test cases are sets of IPFIX records with > undefined Information Elements, Data Records described by missing > Templates, or incorrectly framed messages or data sets. > Representative error handling test cases are defined in "IPFIX > Testing" [I-D.ietf-ipfix-testing]. > > Furthermore, fast replay of IPFIX records stored in a file can be > used for stress/load tests (e.g., high rate of incoming Data Records, > large Templates with high Information Element counts), as described > in "IPFIX Testing" [I-D.ietf-ipfix-testing]. The provisioning and > use of a set of reference files for testing simplifies the > performance of tests and increases the comparability of test results. > > Note that an extremely simple IPFIX Exporting Process may be crafted > for testing purposes by simply reading an IPFIX File and transmitting > it directly to a Collecting Process. Similarly, an extremely simple > Collecting Process may be crafted for testing purposes by simply > accepting connections and/or IPFIX Messages from Exporting Processes > and writing the session's message stream to an IPFIX File. > > 7.2. Storage of IPFIX-collected Flow Data > > IPFIX Files can also, naturally, be used to store flow data collected > by an IPFIX Collecting Process; indeed, this was one of the primary > initial motivations behind the file format described within this > document. Using IPFIX Files as such allows IPFIX implementations to > leverage substantially the same code for flow export and flow > storage. In addition, the storage of single Transport Sessions in > IPFIX Files is particularly important for network measurement > research, allowing repeatability of experiments by providing a format > for the storage and exchange of IPFIX flow trace data much as the > libpcap format is used for experiments on packet trace data. > > As noted in the section above, the simplest way for a Collecting > Process to store the data collected in a single Transport Session is > to simply write the incoming IPFIX Messages to a file as they are > read. However, while the resulting files are valid IPFIX Files, they > are lacking information about the IPFIX Transport Session used to > export them, such as the network addresses of the Exporting and > Collecting Processes and the protocols used to transport them. An > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 28] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > IPFIX File Writer MAY store a single IPFIX Transport Session in an > IPFIX File and record information about the Transport Session using > the Export Session Details Options Template described above. > > Additional per-Message information MAY be recorded by the File Writer > using the Message Details Options Template described above. Per- > message information includes the time at which each IPFIX Message was > received at the Collecting Process, and can be used to resend IPFIX > Messages while keeping the original measurement plane traffic > profile. This Options Template also allows the storage of the export > session metainformation provided the Export Session Details Options Isn't it "meta information" ? > Template, for storing information from multiple Transport Sessions in > the same IPFIX File. > > > 8. Examples > > [TODO in revision -05 or later] > > > 9. Security Considerations > > The IPFIX-based file format itself does not directly introduce > security issues. Rather it is used to store information which may > for privacy or business issues be considered sensitive. The file > format must therefore provide appropriate procedures to guarantee the > integrity and confidentiality of the stored information. The OS or storage system could also do this. P. > > The underlying protocol used to exchange the information that will be > stored using the format proposed in this document must as well apply > appropriate procedures to guarantee the integrity and confidentiality > of the exported information. Such issues are addressed in separate > documents, specifically in the IPFIX Protocol > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. > > > 10. IANA Considerations > > This document specifies the creation of several new IPFIX Information > Elements in the IPFIX Information Element registry located at > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix, as defined in section 6.1 > above. IANA has assigned the following Information Element numbers > for their respective Information Elements as specified below: > > o Information Element number TBD1 for the collectionTimeMilliseconds > Information Element. > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 29] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > o Information Element number TBD2 for the > informationElementAnonymizationType Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD3 for the maxExportSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD4 for the maxFlowEndSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD5 for the messageMD5Checksum > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD6 for the messageScope Information > Element. > > o Information Element number TBD7 for the minExportSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD8 for the minFlowStartSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD9 for the sessionScope Information > Element. > > [NOTE for IANA: The text TBD1, TBD2, TBD3, TBD4, TBD5, TBD6, TBD7, > TBD8, and TBD9 should be replaced with the respective assigned > Information Element numbers where they appear in this document.] > > > 11. Acknowledgements > > Thanks to Maurizio Molina, Tom Kosnar, Andreas Kind, and Andrew > Johnson for technical assistance with the requirements and their > implementation within this specification. > > > 12. References > > 12.1. Normative References > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] > Claise, B., "Specification of the IPFIX Protocol for the > Exchange", draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-24 (work in > progress), November 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info] > Quittek, J., "Information Model for IP Flow Information > Export", draft-ietf-ipfix-info-15 (work in progress), > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 30] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > February 2007. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy] > Boschi, E., "Reducing Redundancy in IP Flow Information > Export (IPFIX) and Packet Sampling (PSAMP) Reports", > draft-ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy-04 (work in > progress), May 2007. > > [RFC1321] Rivest, R., "The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm", RFC 1321, > April 1992. > > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type] > Boschi, E., Mark, L., Trammell, B., and T. Zseby, > "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific > Information Elements", draft-boschi-ipfix-ext-type-00 > (work in progress), June 2007. > > 12.2. Informative References > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-biflow] > Trammell, B. and E. Boschi, "Bidirectional Flow Export > using IPFIX", draft-ietf-ipfix-biflow-05 (work in > progress), June 2007. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-testing] > Schmoll, C. and P. Aitken, "IP Flow Information eXport > (IPFIX) Testing", draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01 (work in > progress), June 2007. > > [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. Zander, > "Requirements for IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)", > RFC 3917, October 2004. > > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. > > [SAINT2007] > Trammell, B., Boschi, E., Mark, L., and T. Zseby, > "Requirements for a standardized flow storage solution", > in Proceedings of the SAINT 2007 workshop on Internet > Measurement Technology, Hiroshima, Japan, January 2007. > > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 31] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Authors' Addresses > > Brian H. Trammell > CERT Network Situational Awareness > Software Engineering Institute > 4500 Fifth Avenue > Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15213 > United States > > Phone: +1 412 268 9748 > Email: bht@cert.org > > > Elisa Boschi > Hitachi Europe SAS > Immeuble Le Theleme > 1503 Route les Dolines > 06560 Valbonne > France > > Phone: +33 4 89874100 > Email: elisa.boschi@hitachi-eu.com > > > Lutz Mark > Fraunhofer Institute for Open Communication Systems > Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 > 10589 Berlin > Germany > > Phone: +49 30 3463 7306 > Email: lutz.mark@fokus.fraunhofer.de > > > Tanja Zseby > Fraunhofer Institute for Open Communication Systems > Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 > 10589 Berlin > Germany > > Phone: +49 30 3463 7153 > Email: tanja.zseby@fokus.fraunhofer.de > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 32] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Arno Wagner > Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich > Gloriastrasse 35 > 8092 Zurich > Switzerland > > Phone: +41 44 632 70 04 > Email: arno@wagner.name > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 33] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Full Copyright Statement > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > retain all their rights. > > This document and the information contained herein are provided on an > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF > THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED > WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > > Intellectual Property > > The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any > Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to > pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in > this document or the extent to which any license under such rights > might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has > made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information > on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be > found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any > assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an > attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of > such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this > specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at > http://www.ietf.org/ipr. > > The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any > copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary > rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement > this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at > ietf-ipr@ietf.org. > > > Acknowledgment > > Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF > Administrative Support Activity (IASA). > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 34] > > -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 18:08:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBVX-0000ZT-3B; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:08:31 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBVV-0000ZI-7x for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:08:29 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBVS-0001i3-5u for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:08:29 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2007 00:08:26 +0200 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,584,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149116859:sNHT195053562" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6QM8OMp020718; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:08:24 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6QM8Okt003660; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:08:24 GMT Received: from [10.21.127.227] (sjc-vpn6-2019.cisco.com [10.21.127.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id XAA12077; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:08:20 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46A91B58.40909@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:08:24 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Trammell Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=93109; t=1185487704; x=1186351704; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Review=3A=20draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04 |Sender:=20; bh=tGlfspVCDUfUKZ9xbha+MW1US9hPYWJrjQ/cJ3VOrkA=; b=MjNr9vPrALcS3lLe3QYtbAmCGYAkrGisHOKxzaviaysSVtvWqwJvaU4TKv0t7qNKS7y+I30C WQvnGpzPSWqcTTJ8ue9WUtBTId5ZhoaJIr3kHOKonueqy6tc/bB4FsKM; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 56e89b758a38944229c8153fc72e2933 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Review: draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Brian. Please see my comments inline. > > IPFIX Working Group B. Trammell > Internet-Draft CERT/NetSA > Intended status: Standards Track E. Boschi > Expires: January 10, 2008 Hitachi Europe > L. Mark > T. Zseby > Fraunhofer FOKUS > A. Wagner > ETH Zurich > July 9, 2007 > > > An IPFIX-Based File Format > draft-trammell-ipfix-file-04.txt > > Status of this Memo > > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > Drafts. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > This Internet-Draft will expire on January 10, 2008. > > Copyright Notice > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > Abstract > > This document describes a file format for the storage of flow data > based upon the IPFIX message format. It proposes a set of > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 1] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > requirements for flat-file, binary flow data file formats, evaluates > flow storage systems presently in use for their conformance to these > requirements, then applies the IPFIX message format to these > requirements to build a new file format. This IPFIX-based file > format is designed to facilitate interoperability and reusability > among a wide variety of flow storage, processing, and analysis tools. > > > Table of Contents > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 > 3. Motivation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > 4. Requirements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 4.1. Record Format Flexibility . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 4.2. Self Description . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 4.3. Data Compression . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 4.4. Indexing and Searching . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 4.5. Data Integrity . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 4.6. Creator Authentication and Confidentiality . . . . . . . . 9 > 4.7. Anonymization and Obfuscation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 4.8. Performance Characteristics . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 5. Survey of Existing Flow and Trace File Formats . . . . . . . . 11 > 5.1. NetFlow V5/V7 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 5.2. Argus 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 5.3. SiLK . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 5.4. libpcap dumpfile . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 6. IPFIX File Format Description . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 > 6.1. Recommended Information Elements for IPFIX Files . . . . . 15 > 6.1.1. collectionTimeMilliseconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 6.1.2. informationElementAnonymizationType . . . . . . . . . 16 > 6.1.3. maxExportSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > 6.1.4. maxFlowEndSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 6.1.5. messageMD5Checksum . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 6.1.6. messageScope . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 6.1.7. minExportSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > 6.1.8. minFlowStartSeconds . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > 6.1.9. sessionScope . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 > 6.2. Recommended Options Templates for IPFIX Files . . . . . . 19 > 6.2.1. Message Checksum Options Template . . . . . . . . . . 19 > 6.2.2. Template Anonymization Options Template . . . . . . . 20 > 6.2.3. File Time Window Options Template . . . . . . . . . . 21 > 6.2.4. Export Session Details Options Template . . . . . . . 22 > 6.2.5. Message Details Options Template . . . . . . . . . . . 23 > 6.3. Recommended Compression Error Resilience Strategy . . . . 25 > 6.4. Recommended Encryption Error Resilience Strategy . . . . . 27 > 7. Applicability of IPFIX Files . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > 7.1. Testing IPFIX Collecting Processes . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 2] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 7.2. Storage of IPFIX-collected Flow Data . . . . . . . . . . . 28 > 8. Examples . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 9. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 10. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 11. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > 12. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > 12.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > 12.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 34 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 3] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 1. Introduction > > This document proposes a file format based upon IPFIX. It begins by > exploring the motivation for proposing a standardized flow file > format, and using IPFIX as the basis for this new file format. It > then proposes a set of requirements for this file format, evaluates > existing flow storage file formats for their conformance to these > requirements, and describes either how the IPFIX message format meets > each requirement, or how a file format based upon it could meet the > requirement. It closes by proposing an initial specification of the "the" -> "a" > new file format and providing examples of IPFIX Files meeting this "Files" -> in the past we were avoiding capitalising terminology until after the terminology section, though I'm not sure whether this is a MUST or a SHOULD :-) Same for "Options" below BTW. > specification. This format makes use of the IPFIX Options mechanism > for additional file metadata, in order to avoid requiring any > protocol or message format extensions. > > > 2. Terminology > > Terms used in this document that are defined in the Terminology > section of the IPFIX Protocol [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] document are > to be interpreted as defined there. > > IPFIX File: An IPFIX File is a serialized stream of IPFIX Messages > stored on a filesystem. Any IPFIX Message stream that would be > considered valid when transported one or more of the specified "transported *on* one" > IPFIX transports (SCTP, TCP, or UDP) as defined in the IPFIX > Protocol draft [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] is considered an IPFIX > File for purposes of this draft; however, this draft further > restricts that definition with recommendations on the construction > of IPFIX Files that meet the requirements identified herein. > > IPFIX File Reader: An IPFIX File Reader is a Process which reads > IPFIX Files from a filesystem, and is analogous to an IPFIX > Collecting Process. An IPFIX File Reader MUST behave as an IPFIX > Collecting Process as outlined in the IPFIX Protocol draft > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], except as modified by this document. > > IPFIX File Writer: An IPFIX File Writer is a process which writes > IPFIX Files to a filesystem, and is analogous to an IPFIX > Exporting Process. An IPFIX File Writer MUST behave as an IPFIX > Exporting Process as outlined in the IPFIX Protocol draft > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], except as modified by this document. > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > document are to be interpreted as described in RFC 2119 [RFC2119]. > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 4] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 3. Motivation For this section, please cite references for every assertion. > > There are a wide variety of applications for the file-based storage > of IP flow data, across a continuum of time scales. Tools used in > the analysis of flow data and creation of analysis products often use > files as a convenient unit of work, with an ephemeral lifetime. A > set of flows relevant to a security investigation may be stored in a > file for the duration of that investigation, and futher exchanged > among incident handlers via email or within an external incident > handling workflow application. Sets of flow data relevant to > Internet measurement research may be published as files, much as > libpcap packet trace files are, to provide common data sets for the > repeatability of research efforts; these files would have lifetimes > measured in months or years. Operational flow measurement systems > also have a need for long-term, archival storage of flow data, either > as a primary flow data repository, or as a backing tier for online > storage in a relational database management system (RDBMS). > > The variety of applications of flow data, and the variety of > presently deployed storage approaches, would seem to indicate the > need for a standard approach to flow storage with applicability > across the continuum of time scales over which flow data is stored. > A storage format based around flat files would best address the > variety of storage requirements. While much work has been done on Can you justify this? > structured storage via RDBMS, relational database systems are not a > good basis for format standardization owing to the fact that their > internal data structures are generally private to a single > implementation and subject to change for internal reasons. Also, > there are a wide variety of operations available on flat files, and > external tools and standards can be leveraged to meet file-based flow > storage requiremenets. Further, flow data is often not very Typo, "requiremenets." Can you justify "often"? Perhaps cite refs. > semantically complicated, is managed in very high volume, and > therefore an RDBMS-based flow storage system would not benefit much > from the advantages of relational database technology. > > The simplest way to create a new file format is simply to serialize > some internal data model to disk, with either textual or binary > representation of data elements, and some framing strategy for > delimiting fields and records. "Ad-hoc" file formats such as this > have several important disadvantages. One, they impose the semantics > of the data model from which they are derived on the file format; as > such, they are difficult to extend, describe, and standardize. > > Over the past decade XML markup has emerged as a new "universal" > representation format for structured data. It is intended to be > human-readable; indeed, that is one reason for its rapid adoption. > However XML has limited usefulness for representing network flow > data. Network flow data has a simple, repetitive, non-hierarchical > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 5] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > structure that does not benefit much from XML. An XML representation > of flow data would be an essentially flat list of the attributes and > their values for each flow record. At the same time network flow > data has well-defined semantics, required to do any meaningful > processing; these semantics are not known to typical XML tools. Give examples of processing? eg, "such as ..." > > The XML approach to data encoding is very heavyweight when compared > to binary flow encoding. While binary flow encodings use a small > number of (or even just one) flat data structures that are entirely "use a small number of flat data structures (or even just one)" > sufficient to encode flow data, XML uses start- and end-tags, and > plain-text encoding of the actual values. This leads to significant > inefficiency in encoding size. Typical network flow datasets can > contain millions or billions of flows per hour of traffic > represented. Any increase in storage size per record can have > dramatic impact on flow data storage and transfer sizes. While data > compression algorithms can partially remove the redundancy introduced > by XML encoding, they introduce additional overhead of their own. > > A further problem is that XML processing tools require a full XML > parser. XML parsers are fully general and therefore complex, > resource-intensive and relatively slow. Since network flow datasets > can be very large, XML parsing introduces significant processing time > overhead. At the same time, parsers for typical binary flow data > encoding are simply structured, since they only need to parse a very > small header and then have complete knowledge of all following fields > for the particular flow. These can then be read in a very efficient > linear fashion without the need for any further decisions. The Do you include variable length fields in that assertion too? > overhead from encoding flow data with XML may well be prohibitive for > processing steps that are easily done with standard binary flow > encodings. At the same time XML encoding offers no discernible > advantage to the flow storage use case. > > This leads us to propose the IPFIX message format as the basis for a Is this a proposal or a standard? > new flow data file format. The IPFIX working group, in defining the > IPFIX protocol, has already defined an information model and data > formatting rules for representation of flow data. Especially at > shorter time scales, when a file is a unit of data interchange, the > filesystem may be viewed as simply another IPFIX message transport > between processes. This format is especially well suited to > representing flow data, as it was designed specifically for flow data > export; it is easily extensible unlike ad-hoc serialization, and > compact unlike XML. In addition, IPFIX is an emerging standard for > the export and collection of flow data; using a common format for > storage and analysis at the collection side allows implementors to > use substantially the same information model and data formatting > implementation for transport as well as storage. > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 6] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > 4. Requirements > > In this section, we outline a proposed set of requirements > [SAINT2007] for any persistent storage format for flow data. First > and foremost, a flow data file format should support storage across > the continuum of time scales important to flow storage applications. > Each of the requirements enumerated in the sections below is broadly > applicable to flow storage applications, though each may be more > important at certain time scales. For each, we first identify the > requirement, then explain how the IPFIX message format addresses it, > or briefly outline the changes that must be made in order for an > IPFIX-based file format to meet the requirement. > > 4.1. Record Format Flexibility > > Due to the wide variety of flow attributes collected by different > network flow attribute measurement systems, the ideal flow storage > format will not impose a single data model or a specific record type > on the flows it stores. The file format must be flexible and > extensible; that is, it must support multiple record types definable > within the file itself, and must be able to support new field types > for data within the records in a graceful way. > > IPFIX provides extensibility through the use of Templates to describe > each Data Record, through the use of an IANA Registry to define its > Information Elements, and through the use of enterprise-specific > Information Elements. > > 4.2. Self Description > > Archived data may be read at a time in the future where any external > reference to the meaning of the data may be lost. The ideal flow > storage format should be self-describing; that is, a process reading "should be"? Ideally it *is*. > flow data from storage should be able to properly interpret the > stored flows without reference to anything other than standard > sources (e.g., the standards document describing the file format) and > the stored flow data itself. > > The IPFIX message format is partially self-describing; that is, IPFIX > Templates containing only IANA-assigned Information Elements can be > completely interpreted according to the IPFIX Information Model > without additional external data. > > However, Templates containing private information elements lack "private" -> "Enterprise Specific". Also again below. "Information Elements" > detailed type and semantic information; a Collecting Process > receiving data described by a template containing private Information > Elements it does not understand can only treat the data contained > within those Information Elements as octet arrays. To be fully self- > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 7] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > describing, Enterprise-Specific Information Elements must be "must be" -> this is certainly one option, though not the only possible one. > additionally described via IPFIX Options according to the Information > Element Semantics Options Template defined in "Extended Type > Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type]. > > 4.3. Data Compression > > Regardless of the representation format, flow data describing traffic > on real networks tends to be highly compressible. Compression tends References! > to improve the scalability of flow collection systems, by reducing > the disk storage and I/O bandwidth requirement for a given workload. - while increasing CPU requirements. > The ideal flow storage format should support applications which wish Should? > to leverage this fact by supporting compression of stored data. > > The IPFIX message format has no support for data compression, as the > IPFIX protocol was designed for speed and simplicity of export. Of > course, any flat file is readily compressible using a wide variety of > external data compression tools, formats, and algorithms; therefore, > this requirement can be met externally. "external data compression tools" implies the file has already been made - in which case the I/O mentioned above is irrelevant. > > However, a couple of simple optimizations can be made by File Writers > to increase the integrity and usability of compressed IPFIX data; > these are outlined in the Recommended Compression Strategy section, It's the "Recommended Compression Error Resilience Strategy" section. > which appears below. > > 4.4. Indexing and Searching > > Binary, record stream oriented file formats natively support only one > form of searching, sequential scan in file order. By choosing the > order of records in a file carefully (e.g., by flow start or flow end "By choosing to order records in" > time), a file can be indexed by a single key. Multiple keys could be used, ie primary and secondary. > > Beyond this, properly addressing indexing is an application-specific > problem, as it inherently involves tradeoffs between storage > complexity and retrieval speed, and requirements vary widely based on > time scales and the types of queries used from site to site. > However, a generic standard flow storage format may provide limited "may"? Is it a SHOULD? > direct support for indexing and searching. > > The ideal flow storage format will support a limited table of "will"? Is it a MUST? > contents facility noting that the records in a file contain data > relating only to certain keys or values of keys, in order to keep > multi-file search implementations from having to scan a file for data > it does not contain. > > The IPFIX message format has no direct support for indexing. > However, its template mechanism and the technique described in > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 8] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > "Reducing Redundancy in IPFIX and PSAMP Reports" > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy] can be used to describe the > contents of a file in a limited way. Additionally, as flow data is > often sorted and divided by time, the start and end time of the flows > in a file may be declared using the File Time Window Options Record > defined below. > > 4.5. Data Integrity > > When storing flow data over long time scales, especially for archival > purposes, it is important to ensure that hardware or software faults > do not introduce errors into the data over time. The ideal flow > storage format will support the detection and correction of encoding- "will"? Plus many times below too. Consider whether RFC 2119 language would be more appropriate - because what I hear is you describing a product you've built, rather than writing the requirements or spec for it. > level errors in the data. > > Note that more advanced error correction is almost certainly best What about error detection? > handled at a layer below that addressed by this document. Error > correction is a topic well addressed by the storage industry in > general (e.g. by RAID and other technolgies), and by specifying a > flow storage format based upon files, we can leverage these features > to meet this requirement. > > However, the ideal flow storage format will be resilient against > errors, providing an internal facility for the detection of errors > and the ability to isolate errors to as few data records as possible. > > Note that this requirement interacts with the choice of data > compression or encryption algorithm. The use of block compression > algorithms can serve to isolate errors to a single compression block, > unlike stream compressors, which may fail to resynchronize after a > single bit error, invalidating the entire message stream. Similarly, > the use of a stream cipher can serve to isloate errors in the > plaintext without amplifying them as, for example, a cipher in CBC References please! > mode can. See the "Recommended Compression Error Resilience > Strategy" and "Recommended Encryption Error Resilience Strategy" > sections below for more on this interaction. > > The IPFIX message format does not support data integrity assurance. > It is assumed that advanced error correction will be provided > externally. For simple error detection support, checksums may be > attached to messages via IPFIX Options according to the Message > Checksum Options Template defined below. I'd much prefer a csum IE. > > 4.6. Creator Authentication and Confidentiality > > Storage of flow data across long time scales may also require > assurance that no unauthorized entity can read or modify the stored > data. Asymmetric-key cryptography can be applied to this problem, by > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 9] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > signing flow data with the private key of the creator, and encrypting > it with the public keys of those authorized to read it. The ideal > flow storage format will support the encryption and signing of flow > data. > > As with error correction, this problem has been addressed well at a > layer below that addressed by this document. Instead of specifying a Refs? > particular choice of encryption technology, we can leverage the fact > that existing cryptographic technologies work quite well on data "quite well"? > stored in files to meet this requirement. > > Beyond support for the use of TLS for transport over TCP or DTLS for > transport over SCTP or UDP, both of which provide transient > authentication and confidentiality, the IPFIX protocol does not > support this requirement directly. It is assumed that this "It is assumed"? -> "This requirement MUST" > requirement will be met externally. > > 4.7. Anonymization and Obfuscation > > To ensure the privacy of individuals and organizations at the > endpoints of communications represented by flow records, it is often > necessary to obfuscate or anonymize stored and exported flow data. > The ideal flow storage format will provide for a notation that a > given information element on a given record type represents > anonymized, rather than real, data. > > The IPFIX message format presently has no support for anonymization > notation. It should be noted that anonymization is one of the > requirements given for IPFIX in RFC 3917 [RFC3917]. The decision to > qualify this requirement with 'MAY' and not 'MUST' in the > requirements document, and its subsequent lack of specification in > the current version of the IPFIX protocol, is due to the fact that > anonymization algorithms are still a research issue, and that there > currently exist no standardized methods for anonymization. > > Simple anonymization notation may be attached to templates via IPFIX > Options according to the Template Anonymization Options Template > defined below. > > 4.8. Performance Characteristics > > The ideal standard flow storage format will not have a significant > negative impact on the performance of the application implementing > it. This is a non-functional requirement, but it is important to > note that a standard that implies a performance penalty is unlikely > to be widely implemented and adopted. > > A static analysis of the IPFIX message format would seem to suggest > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 10] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > that implementations of it are not particularly prone to slowness; > indeed, a template-based data representation is more easily subject > to optimization for common cases than representations that embed > structural information directly in the data stream (e.g. XML). > However, a full analysis of the impact of using IPFIX messages as a > basis for flow data storage on read/write performance will require > more implementation experience and performance measurement. > > > 5. Survey of Existing Flow and Trace File Formats Who selected these formats and why? How was the selection made? > > 5.1. NetFlow V5/V7 I think we use lowercase v: v5 and v7. Do you consider that v7 is widely used? > > One de facto standard for the storage of flow data collected via > Cisco NetFlow V5 or V7 is to serialize a stream of "raw" NetFlow > datagrams into files. These NetFlow PDU files consist of a > collection of header- prefixed blocks (corresponding to the datagrams > as received on the wire) containing fixed-length binary flow records. > NetFlow V5 and V7 data may be mixed within a given file, as the > header on each datagram defines the NetFlow version of the records > following; there is indeed very little difference between the two > record formats. > > NetFlow V5/V7 PDU files are neither extensible nor self-describing; > however, their status as a de facto standard means the definition of > the data format is well-understood. Indexing, compression, error > detection and correction, authentication, and confidentiality must be > handled externally. > > 5.2. Argus 2 > > QoSient's Argus (as of version 2.0.6) uses a file format based upon a > stream of type-and-length prefixed records. There are two general > types of records in this stream, management records and flow records. > Management records export flow collection statistics, much like the > recommended scoped data records in the IPFIX protocol. Flow records > contain information about a single flow each, and are further typed > based upon the protocol of the flow (e.g., IP, ICMP, ARP). The Argus > file format natively spports bidirectional flow export, as each flow > record contains both forward and reverse counters. > > The Argus tools support a transport protocol that simply encapsulates > a record stream over a TCP connection. Transport is collector- > initiated; that is, a collector establishes a connection to an > exporter in order to read a record stream. > > Argus files are not self-describing; that is, only the Argus tools > themselves encapsulate the definition of each of the record types. > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 11] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > The Argus file format is not extensible without changing the Argus > implementation. Argus provides no indexing facility for its file > format, though records are roughly sorted by record generation time. > Compression, error correction, authentication, and confidentiality > are handled externally to the format, and are available as with all > files. There is no special support for data obfuscation in the > format. > > 5.3. SiLK > > The CERT/NetSA SiLK tools use a set of fixed-length binary record > formats. Each file is prefixed with a header which denotes which > record format the file is stored in. These record formats are > differentiated by the presence or absence of certain fields; in this > way, each format identifier is essentially a short-hand identifier > for a template describing the record. This also implies that only > one type of record may be stored in any given file. > > As with Argus, SiLK files are not self-describing and are not > extensible. SiLK provides no indexing facility, though files are > generally stored in flow end time order; and when used for archival > storage, information about sensors and flow times appearing in each > file is stored in the file path name. Compression is handled Actually this can be done for any format here. > internally to the file format, and allows the storage of compressed > data in a file with uncompressed headers, and a guarantee of > compression block boundary alignment with record boundaries. Error > correction, authentication, and confidentiality can be handled > externally. There is no special support for data obfuscation in the obfuscation? Which IPFIX calls anonymisation? > SiLK file format. > > 5.4. libpcap dumpfile > > The libpcap dumpfile format is a packet trace format rather than a > flow file format, so it does not address any of the requirements > outlined above. However, it is used widely in a use case (data > storage and distribution for network measurement research) similar to > one addressed by the format proposed in this draft, so we include it > here. > > libpcap dumpfiles consist of a file header containing information > common to the whole file (most importantly, the datalink layer, for > interpretation of the datalink headers on each frame), followed by a > set of raw captured frame records each prefixed by a frame header > containing timestamp and length information. The format is not > particularly flexible or self-describing, nor does it need to be: > undecoded frames are about as semantically simple as network traffic > data can get. > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 12] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > However, the simplicity and ubiquity of the libpcap dumpfile format > has led to its becoming a de facto standard for the distribution of > packet trace data for Internet measurement applications. We propose > the file format described in this draft in part as an analogue to the > libpcap dumpfile format for flow data. > > Note that libpcap dumpfiles could be used as a storage format for any > unidirectional, datagram-oriented protocol such as IPFIX or NetFlow, > simply by storing the captured export session. However, this has > several important drawbacks. First, the additional per-packet > headers provided by pcap are redundant in the case of IPFIX, as > length and export time are already available in the IPFIX Message > Header. Second, the link, network, and transport layer headers are > stored in a dumpfile; these are not necessary for the successful > interpretation of an IPFIX Message, and add additional decode > overhead. Third, a file created by capturing an export session may > require additional processing to reassemble fragmented datagrams in > the message stream. > > > 6. IPFIX File Format Description > > An IPFIX file, as defined by this draft and elaborated below, is at > its core simply an IPFIX Message stream serialized to some > filesystem. Any valid serialized IPFIX Message stream MUST be > accepted by a File Reader as a valid IPFIX file. In this way, the > filesystem is simply treated as another IPFIX Transport alongside > SCTP, TCP, and UDP, although one with unusually high latency, as the > File Reader and File Writer are not necessarily synchronized in time, > unlike IPFIX Collecting and Exporting Processes. The EP and CP are not synch'd at all. > > An IPFIX File Reader MUST accept as valid any IPFIX message stream > that would be considered valid by one or more of the other defined > IPFIX transport layers. Practically, this means that the union of > template management features supported by SCTP, TCP, and UDP MUST be > supported in IPFIX Files. The following requirements apply to IPFIX > File Readers: > > o File Readers MUST accept IPFIX Messages containing Template Sets, > Options Template Sets, and Data Sets within the same message, as > with IPFIX over TCP or UDP. > > o File Readers MUST accept Template Sets that define templates > already defined within the file, as may occur with template > retransmission when using IPFIX over UDP as described in section > 10.3.6 of the IPFIX Protocol draft [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. In > the event of a conflict between a resent definition and a previous > definition, the File Reader MUST assume that the new template > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 13] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > replaces the old, as consistent with UDP template expiration and > ID reuse. > > o File Readers MUST accept Template Withdrawals as described in > section 8 of the IPFIX Protocol draft [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], > provided that the Template to be withdrawn is defined, as is the > case with IPFIX over TCP and SCTP. I'm thinking that FILE is essentially a layer below EP / CP but above transport, something like this: +------+ +------+ | EP | | CP | +------+--------+------+ | File | +----------------------+ | transport | +----------------------+ > > However, for representation simplicity and read performance, File > Writers SHOULD use the following template and scope management > strategy: > > o File Writers SHOULD emit Template Sets and Options Template Sets I think this is a MUST, since data ahead of the necessary Templates could be discarded and is therefore of no value. Or put another way, if the Template is in the file somewhere, rewrite the file to put the Template at the start. > to appear at the beginning of the file, before any Data Sets, to > ensure all Templates are available and can be inspected before any > data is read. If the set of Templates used within a File is not > known when the File Writer starts writing the File, the File > Writer MAY interleave Template Sets and Options Template Sets with > Data Sets within the File, but SHOULD write each Template Set or > Options Template Set before any Data Set described by that > Template. > > o File Writers SHOULD emit special Data Records described by Options > Templates at the beginning of the file after Template Sets and > Options Template Sets as above, but before any other Data Records, > in the following order: > > * Time window order records described by the File Time Window > Options Template as defined in section 6.2.3 below; followed by > > * commonPropertiesId definitions as described in "Reducing > Redundancy in IPFIX and PSAMP Reports" > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy]; followed by > > * Semantics records as described in "Extended Type Information > for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type]; followed by > > * Anonymization notation records described by the Template > Anonymization Options Template as defined in section 6.2.2 > below. > > o File Writers SHOULD emit Data Records described by Options Again, MUST. > Templates to appear in the file before any Data Records which > depend on the scopes defined by those options. > > o File Writers SHOULD use Template Withdrawals to withdraw Templates Again, MUST. > if template IDs need to be reused. In this case, the new You'd have to generate them for UDP, because they won't exist. > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 14] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Templates reusing those IDs SHOULD appear directly in the file > after the Template Withdrawals making the IDs available for reuse. > Template Withdrawals SHOULD NOT be used unless necessary to reuse > template IDs. Why? > > Each IPFIX File is generally synonymous with a single Transport > Session. File Writers SHOULD store the Templates and Options > required to decode the data within the File in the File itself, and > File Readers SHOULD NOT use Templates or Options defined in one file > to decode or interpret Data Sets in another. What if I want to save each SCTP stream to a different file? > > However, some applications, particularly those storing large > collections of data over long periods of time, may benefit from the > ability to treat a collection of IPFIX Files as a single Transport > Session. A File Reader MAY be configurable to treat a collection of > Files (e.g., all the files in a directory) as a single Transport > Session. However, a File Reader MUST NOT treat a single IPFIX File > as containing multiple Transport Sessions. So we need a new file if/when the Transport Session shuts down? > > File Writers SHOULD write IPFIX Messages within an IPFIX File in > ascending Export Time order. If a File Writer is writing data Here, ascending order. Below... > collected from an IPFIX Collecting Process, the Export Time SHOULD be > the export time as reported by the remote IPFIX Exporting Process; > otherwise, the Export Time should be the time at which the message > was written to the file. > > By default, File Writers MAY write records to an IPFIX File in any > order. However, File Writers that write flow records to an IPFIX ... any order. Confusing. > File in flowStartTime or flowEndTime order SHOULD be consistent in > this ordering within each File. Why? And which are we recommending here, if it's a standard? > > If an IPFIX File uses the technique described in "Reducing Redundancy > in IPFIX and PSAMP Reports" [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy] AND > all of the non-Options Templates in the File contain the Do you mean "contain *only* the" ? > commonPropertiesId Information Element, a File Reader MAY assume the > set of commonPropertiesId definitions provides a complete table of > contents for the file, for searching purposes. > > 6.1. Recommended Information Elements for IPFIX Files > > The following information elements are used by the options templates > below to allow IPFIX message streams to meet the requirements > outlined above without extension to the message format or protocol. > IPFIX File Readers and Writers SHOULD support these Information MUST? > Elements as defined below. > > In addition, IPFIX File Readers and Writers SHOULD support the > Information Elements defined in "Extended Type Information for IPFIX > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 15] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type] in order to support self-description > of Enterprise-Specific Information Elements and anonymization > notation. > > 6.1.1. collectionTimeMilliseconds > > Description: The absolute timestamp at which the data within the > scope containing this IE was received by a Collecting Process. When an Exporting Process writes to a file, there's no CP time. > This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX Message via an > options record and the messageScope IE, as defined below. Say where, ie 6.1.6. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeMilliseconds > > ElementId: TBD1 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.1.2. informationElementAnonymizationType It's a flag, not a type. > > Description: A description of the anonymization status of an IPFIX > information element within a template. If this field is FALSE, "Template" > the corresponding IE is not anonymized; to the best ability of the > Exporting Process to determine, it represents a real value. If > this field is TRUE, the corresponding IE is anonymized; to the > best ability of the Exporting Process to determine, it represents > a value that has been transformed to maintain privacy. Note that > if no informationElementAnonymizationType is specified for an > information element, it is assumed to be FALSE, or not anonymized. "Information Element" > > Abstract Data Type: boolean > > ElementId: TBD2 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.1.3. maxExportSeconds > > Description: The absolute Export Time of the latest IPFIX message > within the scope containing this IE. This IE SHOULD be bound to > its containing IPFIX Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options > record and the sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD Say where, ie 6.1.9. > appear only once in a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 16] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > ElementId: TBD3 > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds Does this give good granularity? > > 6.1.4. maxFlowEndSeconds > > Description: The latest absolute timestamp of the last packet > within any Flow within the scope containing this IE, rounded up to > the second. This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX > Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options record and the > sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD appear only once in > a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > ElementId: TBD4 > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds Again, does this give good granularity? > > 6.1.5. messageMD5Checksum > > Description: The MD5 checksum of the IPFIX Message containing this > record. This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX Message > via an options record and the messageScope IE, as defined below, Eeuuwww. The message should directly contain its own csum IE. For "below", again say where. > and SHOULD appear only once in a given IPFIX Message. To Split to a new paragraph here. > calculate the value of this IE, first buffer the containing IPFIX > Message, setting the value of this IE to all zeroes. Then > caluclate the MD5 checksum of the resulting buffer as defined in > RFC 1321 [RFC1321], place the resulting value in this IE, and > export the buffered message. > > Abstract Data Type: octetArray (16 bytes) > > ElementId: TBD5 > > Status: Proposed > > Reference: RFC 1321, The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm [RFC1321] > > 6.1.6. messageScope > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 17] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Description: The presence of this Information Element as scope in > an Options Template signifies that the options described by the > Template apply to the IPFIX Message that contains them. It is > defined for general purpose message scoping of options, and > proposed specifically to allow the attachment a checksum to a > message via IPFIX Options. The value of this Information Element > MUST be written as 0 by the File Writer or Exporting Process. The > value of this Information Element MUST be ignored by the File > Reader or the Collecting Process. > > Abstract Data Type: octet The size should really be zero, right? > > ElementId: TBD6 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.1.7. minExportSeconds > > Description: The absolute Export Time of the earliest IPFIX message > within the scope containing this IE. This IE SHOULD be bound to > its containing IPFIX Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options > record and the sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD > appear only once in a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > ElementId: TBD7 > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds > > 6.1.8. minFlowStartSeconds > > Description: The earliest absolute timestamp of the first packet > within any Flow within the scope containing this IE, rounded down > to the second. This IE SHOULD be bound to its containing IPFIX > Transport Session (i.e., File) via an options record and the > sessionScope IE, as defined below, and SHOULD appear only once in > a given IPFIX File. > > Abstract Data Type: dateTimeSeconds > > ElementId: TBD8 > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 18] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Status: Proposed > > Units: seconds > > 6.1.9. sessionScope > > Description: The presence of this Information Element as scope in > an Options Template signifies that the options described by the > Template apply to the IPFIX Transport Session that contains them. > Note that as all options are implicitly scoped to Transport > Session and Observation Domain, this Information Element is > equivalent to a "null" scope. It is defined for general purpose > session scoping of options, and proposed specifically to allow the > attachment of time window to a file via IPFIX Options. The value Split to a new paragraph. > of this Information Element MUST be written as 0 by the File > Writer or Exporting Process. The value of this Information > Element MUST be ignored by the File Reader or the Collecting > Process. > > Abstract Data Type: octet Again, the size should really be zero, right? > > ElementId: TBD9 > > Status: Proposed > > 6.2. Recommended Options Templates for IPFIX Files > > The following Options Templates allow IPFIX message streams to meet > the requirements outlined above without extension to the message > format or protocol. They are defined in terms of existing > Information Elements defined in the IPFIX Information Model > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info], the extended type Information Elements defined > in "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific > Information Elements" [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type], as well as > Information Elements defined in the section above. IPFIX File Say which section above. > Readers and Writers SHOULD support these options templates as defined > below. > > In addition, IPFIX File Readers and Writers SHOULD support the > Options Templates defined in "Extended Type Information for IPFIX > Enterprise-Specific Information Elements" > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type] in order to support self-description > of enterprise-specific Information Elements. > > 6.2.1. Message Checksum Options Template > > The Message Checksum Options Template specifies the structure of a > Data Record for attaching an MD5 message checksum to an IPFIX > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 19] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Message. An MD5 message checksum as described MAY be used if long- > term data integrity is important to the application. The described > Data Record MUST appear only once per IPFIX Message. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements: > > +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > | messageScope | A marker denoting this Option applies to the | > | | whole IPFIX message; content is ignored. | > | | This Information Element MUST be defined as | > | | a Scope Field. | Consider inserting some vertical whitespace here to make these more readable. > | messageMD5Checksum | The MD5 checksum of the containing IPFIX | > | | Message. | > +--------------------+----------------------------------------------+ > > 6.2.2. Template Anonymization Options Template > > The Template Anonymization Options Template specifies the structure > of a Data Record for attaching anonymization notation information to > Information Elements in specified Template Records. A Data Record > described by this Template SHOULD appear for each Information Element > within a Template known by the Exporting Process or File Writer to > contain anonymized data. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements: > > +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ > | templateId | The Template ID of the | > | | template this record | > | | describes; it is assumed to | > | | be valid within the | > | | Observation Domain ID of | > | | the containing IPFIX | > | | Message, and MUST identify | > | | a Template that has already | > | | been exported. This | > | | Information Element MUST be | > | | defined as a Scope Field. | > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 20] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | informationElementId | The Information Element | > | | identifier of the | > | | Information Element within | > | | the specified Template this | > | | record describes. This | > | | Information Element MUST be | > | | defined as a Scope Field. | > | privateEnterpriseNumber | The Private Enterprise | > | | number of the Information | > | | Element within the | > | | specified Template this | > | | record describes. May be 0 | > | | if this record describes a | > | | public Information Element. | > | | This Information Element | > | | MUST be defined as a Scope | > | | Field. | Put the PEN last so it can be omitted if zero. > | informationElementAnonymizationType | The anonymization type of | > | | the specified Information | > | | Element. | > +-------------------------------------+-----------------------------+ > > 6.2.3. File Time Window Options Template > > The File Time Window Options Template specifies the structure of a > Data Record for attaching a time window to an IPFIX File; this Data > Record is referred to as a time window record. A time window record > defines the earliest flow start time and the latest flow end time of > the flow records within a File. One and only one time window record > MAY appear within an IPFIX File if the time window information is > available; a File Writer MUST NOT write more than one time window > record to an IPFIX File. A File Writer that writes a time window > record to a File MUST NOT write any Flow with a start time before the > beginning of the window or an end time after the end of the window to > that File. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements: > > +---------------------+---------------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +---------------------+---------------------------------------------+ > | sessionScope | A marker denoting this Option applies to | > | | the whole IPFIX Transport Session (i.e., | > | | IPFIX File); content is ignored. This | > | | Information Element MUST be defined as a | > | | Scope Field. | > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 21] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | minFlowStartSeconds | The start time of the earliest flow in the | > | | Transport Session (i.e., File) in epoch | > | | seconds. | > | maxFlowEndSeconds | The end time of the latest flow in the | > | | Transport Session (i.e., File) in epoch | > | | seconds. | > +---------------------+---------------------------------------------+ > > 6.2.4. Export Session Details Options Template > > The Export Session Details Options Template specifies the structure > of a Data Record for recording the details of an IPFIX Transport > Session in an IPFIX File. It is intended for use in storing a single > complete IPFIX Transport Session in a single IPFIX File. The > described Data Record SHOULD appear only once in a given IPFIX File. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements, > subject to applicability as noted on each Information Element: > > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | sessionScope | A marker denoting this Option | > | | applies to the whole IPFIX Transport | > | | Session (i.e., IPFIX File); content | > | | is ignored. This Information | > | | Element MUST be defined as a Scope | > | | Field. | > | exporterIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv4 | > | | interface. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Exporting Process. | > | exporterIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv6 | > | | interface. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Exporting Process. | > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 22] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | exporterTransportPort | The source port from which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. | > | collectorIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv4 interface. For multi-homed | > | | SCTP associations, this SHOULD be | > | | the primary path endpoint address of | > | | the Collecting Process. | > | collectorIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv6 interface. For multi-homed | > | | SCTP associations, this SHOULD be | > | | the primary path endpoint address of | > | | the Collecting Process. | > | collectorTransportPort | The destination port on which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. | > | collectorTransportProtocol | The IP Protocol Identifier of the | > | | transport protocol used to transport | > | | Messages within this Transport | > | | Session. | However, it's not specific to the Collector. > | collectorProtocolVersion | The version of the IPFIX Protocol | > | | used to transport Messages within | > | | this Transport Session. | And again. Also below. > | minExportSeconds | The Export Time of the first Message | > | | in the Transport Session. | > | maxExportSeconds | The Export Time of the last Message | > | | in the Transport Session. | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > > 6.2.5. Message Details Options Template > > The Message Details Options Template specifies the structure of a > Data Record for attaching additional export details to an IPFIX > Message. These details include the time at which a message was > received and information about the export and collection > infrastructure used to transport the Message. > > The template SHOULD contain the following Information Elements, > subject to applicability as noted for each Information Element. Note > that when used in conjunction with the Export Session Details Options > Template, when storing a single complete IPFIX Transport Session in > an IPFIX File, this template SHOULD contain only the messageScope and > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 23] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > collectionTimeMilliseconds Information Elements. > > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | IE | Description | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > | messageScope | A marker denoting this Option | > | | applies to the whole IPFIX message; | > | | content is ignored. This | > | | Information Element MUST be defined | > | | as a Scope Field. | > | collectionTimeMilliseconds | The absolute time at which this | > | | Message was received by the IPFIX | > | | Collecting Process. | > | exporterIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv4 | > | | interface, and if this information | > | | is not available via the Export | > | | Session Details Options Template. | > | | For multi-homed SCTP associations, | > | | this SHOULD be the primary path | > | | endpoint address of the Exporting | > | | Process. | > | exporterIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Exporting | > | | Process from which the Messages in | > | | this Transport Session were | > | | received. Present only for | > | | Exporting Processes with an IPv6 | > | | interface, and if this information | > | | is not available via the Export | > | | Session Details Options Template. | > | | For multi-homed SCTP associations, | > | | this SHOULD be the primary path | > | | endpoint address of the Exporting | > | | Process. | > | exporterTransportPort | The source port from which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. Present only if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. | > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 24] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > | collectorIPv4Address | IPv4 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv4 interface, and if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Collecting Process. | > | collectorIPv6Address | IPv6 address of the IPFIX Collecting | > | | Process which received the Messages | > | | in this Transport Session. Present | > | | only for Collecting Processes with | > | | an IPv6 interface, and if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. For multi-homed SCTP | > | | associations, this SHOULD be the | > | | primary path endpoint address of the | > | | Collecting Process. | > | collectorTransportPort | The destination port on which the | > | | Messages in this Transport Session | > | | were received. Present only if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. | > | collectorTransportProtocol | The IP Protocol Identifier of the | > | | transport protocol used to transport | > | | Messages within this Transport | > | | Session. Present only if this | > | | information is not available via the | > | | Export Session Details Options | > | | Template. | > | collectorProtocolVersion | The version of the IPFIX Protocol | > | | used to transport Messages within | > | | this Transport Session. Present | > | | only if this information is not | > | | available via the Export Session | > | | Details Options Template. | > +----------------------------+--------------------------------------+ > > 6.3. Recommended Compression Error Resilience Strategy > > Note that, since any file may be compressed and decompressed with a > variety of widely available tools implementing a variety of > compression standards (both specified and de facto), compression of > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 25] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > IPFIX File data can be accomplished externally. However, compression > at the file level is not particularly resilient to errors; in the > worst case, a single bit error in a stream-compressed file may result > in the loss of the entire file. > > To limit the impact of errors on the recoverability of compressed > data, we recommend the use of block compression where possible. > Ideally, the block compression algorithm should support the > identification and isolation of blocks containing errors; bzip2 is an > example of such a block compressor. > > Since the block boundary of a block-compressed IPFIX File may fall in > the middle of an IPFIX Message, resynchronization of an IPFIX Message > stream by a File Reader after a compression error requires some care. > The beginning of an IPFIX Message may be identified by its header > signature (the Version field of the Message Header, 0x00 0x0A, > followed by a 16-bit Message Length), but simply searching for the > first occurance of the Version field is insufficient, since these two > bytes may occur in valid IPFIX Template or Data Sets. > > Therefore, we propose the following algorithm for File Readers to > resynchronize an IPFIX Message Stream after skipping a compressed > block containing errors: > > 1. Search after the error for the first occurance of the byte string > 0x00, 0x0A (the IPFIX Message Header Version field.) > > 2. Treat this field as the beginning of a candidate IPFIX Message. > Read the two bytes following the Version field as a Message > Length, and seek to that offset from the beginning of the > candidate IPFIX Message. > > 3. If the first two bytes after the candidate IPFIX Message are > 0x00, 0x0A (i.e., the IPFIX Message Header Version field of the > next message in the stream), or if the end of the file is reached > precisely at the end of the candidate IPFIX Message, presume that > the candidate IPFIX Message is valid, and begin reading the IPFIX > File from the start of the candidate IPFIX Message. I think this is insufficient: one should iterate over the entire message to the end to be sure. > > 4. If not, or if the seek reaches end-of-file or another block > containing errors before finding the end of the candidate > message, go back to step 1, starting the search two bytes from > the start of the candidate IPFIX Message. > > The algorithm above will improperly identify a non-message as a > message approximately 1 in 2^32 times, assuming random IPFIX data. > It may be expanded to consider multiple candidate IPFIX Messages in > order to increase reliability. It should be, since the random nature of the data means it'll probably fail 9 times out of 10. > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 26] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > In applications (e.g. archival storage) in which error resilience is > very important, File Writers SHOULD use block compression algorithms, > and MAY attempt to align IPFIX Messages within compression blocks to > ease resynchronization after errors, if such is supported by the > chosen block compressor. File Readers SHOULD use the > resynchronization algorithm above to minimize data loss due to > compression errors. > > 6.4. Recommended Encryption Error Resilience Strategy > > File-level encryption has error resiliency issues similar to file- > level compression. Single bit errors in the encrypted data stream > can result in unreadability of the entire remaining file, dependent > on the encryption method used. The use of CBC (Cipher Block > Chaining) mode, which suffers from this low error resilience, is > relatively common. > > In applications (e.g. archival storage) in which error resilience is > very important, File Writers SHOULD use a stream cipher, for example > a block cipher in OFB (Output Feedback) mode (often referred to as > stream mode) instead of modes like CBC when encrypting, since errors > are not amplified by stream ciphers: A single-bit error in the > ciphertext results in a single bit error in the plaintext. > Alternatively File Writers SHOULD use any other cipher which can > resynchronize after bit errors. An example is a block cipher in CBC > mode that is reinitialized after a specific amount of data has been > encrypted. The maximum data loss per bit-error is then up to the > next reinitialization point. In this case, File Writers SHOULD also > use the Message Checksum Options Template to attach a checksum to > each IPFIX Message in the IPFIX File, in order to support the > recognition of errors in the decrypted data. > > > 7. Applicability of IPFIX Files > > This section describes the specific applicability of IPFIX Files to > various use cases. IPFIX Files are particularly useful in a flow > collection and processing infrastructure using IPFIX for flow export. > We explore the applicability and provide guidelines for using IPFIX > files during the implementation and operation of IPFIX Collecting > Processes. > > 7.1. Testing IPFIX Collecting Processes > > IPFIX Files can be used to store IPFIX Messages for the testing of > IPFIX Collecting Processes. A variety of test cases may be stored in > IPFIX Files. First, IPFIX data sets collected in real network > environments and stored in an IPFIX File can be used as input to > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 27] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > check the behavior of new or extended implementations of IPFIX > Collectors. Furthermore, IPFIX Files could be used to validate the > operation of a given IPFIX Collecting Process in a new environment, > i.e., to test with recorded IPFIX data from the target network before > installing the Collecting Process in the network. > > The IPFIX File format can also be used to store artificial, non- > compliant reference messages for specific Collecting Process test > cases. Examples for such test cases are sets of IPFIX records with > undefined Information Elements, Data Records described by missing > Templates, or incorrectly framed messages or data sets. > Representative error handling test cases are defined in "IPFIX > Testing" [I-D.ietf-ipfix-testing]. > > Furthermore, fast replay of IPFIX records stored in a file can be > used for stress/load tests (e.g., high rate of incoming Data Records, > large Templates with high Information Element counts), as described > in "IPFIX Testing" [I-D.ietf-ipfix-testing]. The provisioning and > use of a set of reference files for testing simplifies the > performance of tests and increases the comparability of test results. > > Note that an extremely simple IPFIX Exporting Process may be crafted > for testing purposes by simply reading an IPFIX File and transmitting > it directly to a Collecting Process. Similarly, an extremely simple > Collecting Process may be crafted for testing purposes by simply > accepting connections and/or IPFIX Messages from Exporting Processes > and writing the session's message stream to an IPFIX File. > > 7.2. Storage of IPFIX-collected Flow Data > > IPFIX Files can also, naturally, be used to store flow data collected > by an IPFIX Collecting Process; indeed, this was one of the primary > initial motivations behind the file format described within this > document. Using IPFIX Files as such allows IPFIX implementations to > leverage substantially the same code for flow export and flow > storage. In addition, the storage of single Transport Sessions in > IPFIX Files is particularly important for network measurement > research, allowing repeatability of experiments by providing a format > for the storage and exchange of IPFIX flow trace data much as the > libpcap format is used for experiments on packet trace data. > > As noted in the section above, the simplest way for a Collecting > Process to store the data collected in a single Transport Session is > to simply write the incoming IPFIX Messages to a file as they are > read. However, while the resulting files are valid IPFIX Files, they > are lacking information about the IPFIX Transport Session used to > export them, such as the network addresses of the Exporting and > Collecting Processes and the protocols used to transport them. An > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 28] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > IPFIX File Writer MAY store a single IPFIX Transport Session in an > IPFIX File and record information about the Transport Session using > the Export Session Details Options Template described above. > > Additional per-Message information MAY be recorded by the File Writer > using the Message Details Options Template described above. Per- > message information includes the time at which each IPFIX Message was > received at the Collecting Process, and can be used to resend IPFIX > Messages while keeping the original measurement plane traffic > profile. This Options Template also allows the storage of the export > session metainformation provided the Export Session Details Options Isn't it "meta information" ? > Template, for storing information from multiple Transport Sessions in > the same IPFIX File. > > > 8. Examples > > [TODO in revision -05 or later] > > > 9. Security Considerations > > The IPFIX-based file format itself does not directly introduce > security issues. Rather it is used to store information which may > for privacy or business issues be considered sensitive. The file > format must therefore provide appropriate procedures to guarantee the > integrity and confidentiality of the stored information. The OS or storage system could also do this. P. > > The underlying protocol used to exchange the information that will be > stored using the format proposed in this document must as well apply > appropriate procedures to guarantee the integrity and confidentiality > of the exported information. Such issues are addressed in separate > documents, specifically in the IPFIX Protocol > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. > > > 10. IANA Considerations > > This document specifies the creation of several new IPFIX Information > Elements in the IPFIX Information Element registry located at > http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipfix, as defined in section 6.1 > above. IANA has assigned the following Information Element numbers > for their respective Information Elements as specified below: > > o Information Element number TBD1 for the collectionTimeMilliseconds > Information Element. > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 29] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > o Information Element number TBD2 for the > informationElementAnonymizationType Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD3 for the maxExportSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD4 for the maxFlowEndSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD5 for the messageMD5Checksum > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD6 for the messageScope Information > Element. > > o Information Element number TBD7 for the minExportSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD8 for the minFlowStartSeconds > Information Element. > > o Information Element number TBD9 for the sessionScope Information > Element. > > [NOTE for IANA: The text TBD1, TBD2, TBD3, TBD4, TBD5, TBD6, TBD7, > TBD8, and TBD9 should be replaced with the respective assigned > Information Element numbers where they appear in this document.] > > > 11. Acknowledgements > > Thanks to Maurizio Molina, Tom Kosnar, Andreas Kind, and Andrew > Johnson for technical assistance with the requirements and their > implementation within this specification. > > > 12. References > > 12.1. Normative References > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] > Claise, B., "Specification of the IPFIX Protocol for the > Exchange", draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-24 (work in > progress), November 2006. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info] > Quittek, J., "Information Model for IP Flow Information > Export", draft-ietf-ipfix-info-15 (work in progress), > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 30] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > February 2007. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy] > Boschi, E., "Reducing Redundancy in IP Flow Information > Export (IPFIX) and Packet Sampling (PSAMP) Reports", > draft-ietf-ipfix-reducing-redundancy-04 (work in > progress), May 2007. > > [RFC1321] Rivest, R., "The MD5 Message-Digest Algorithm", RFC 1321, > April 1992. > > [I-D.boschi-ipfix-extended-type] > Boschi, E., Mark, L., Trammell, B., and T. Zseby, > "Extended Type Information for IPFIX Enterprise-Specific > Information Elements", draft-boschi-ipfix-ext-type-00 > (work in progress), June 2007. > > 12.2. Informative References > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-biflow] > Trammell, B. and E. Boschi, "Bidirectional Flow Export > using IPFIX", draft-ietf-ipfix-biflow-05 (work in > progress), June 2007. > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-testing] > Schmoll, C. and P. Aitken, "IP Flow Information eXport > (IPFIX) Testing", draft-ietf-ipfix-testing-01 (work in > progress), June 2007. > > [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. Zander, > "Requirements for IP Flow Information Export (IPFIX)", > RFC 3917, October 2004. > > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. > > [SAINT2007] > Trammell, B., Boschi, E., Mark, L., and T. Zseby, > "Requirements for a standardized flow storage solution", > in Proceedings of the SAINT 2007 workshop on Internet > Measurement Technology, Hiroshima, Japan, January 2007. > > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 31] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Authors' Addresses > > Brian H. Trammell > CERT Network Situational Awareness > Software Engineering Institute > 4500 Fifth Avenue > Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15213 > United States > > Phone: +1 412 268 9748 > Email: bht@cert.org > > > Elisa Boschi > Hitachi Europe SAS > Immeuble Le Theleme > 1503 Route les Dolines > 06560 Valbonne > France > > Phone: +33 4 89874100 > Email: elisa.boschi@hitachi-eu.com > > > Lutz Mark > Fraunhofer Institute for Open Communication Systems > Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 > 10589 Berlin > Germany > > Phone: +49 30 3463 7306 > Email: lutz.mark@fokus.fraunhofer.de > > > Tanja Zseby > Fraunhofer Institute for Open Communication Systems > Kaiserin-Augusta-Allee 31 > 10589 Berlin > Germany > > Phone: +49 30 3463 7153 > Email: tanja.zseby@fokus.fraunhofer.de > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 32] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Arno Wagner > Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zurich > Gloriastrasse 35 > 8092 Zurich > Switzerland > > Phone: +41 44 632 70 04 > Email: arno@wagner.name > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 33] > > Internet-Draft IPFIX Files July 2007 > > > Full Copyright Statement > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > retain all their rights. > > This document and the information contained herein are provided on an > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF > THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED > WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > > Intellectual Property > > The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any > Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to > pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in > this document or the extent to which any license under such rights > might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has > made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information > on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be > found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any > assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an > attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of > such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this > specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at > http://www.ietf.org/ipr. > > The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any > copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary > rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement > this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at > ietf-ipr@ietf.org. > > > Acknowledgment > > Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF > Administrative Support Activity (IASA). > > > > > > Trammell, et al. Expires January 10, 2008 [Page 34] > > -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 18:13:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBae-0001jT-Ia; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:13:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBac-0001hO-RZ for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:13:46 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBab-0001nR-Ts for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:13:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F081828016A83; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K1wS4ptflWq1; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF62328014C90; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 130.129.82.248 ([130.129.82.248]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:13:30 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:27 +0200 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types From: Juergen Quittek To: "Boschi, Elisa" , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Thread-Index: AcfPzxo95ZI1Uv8xRJ++1i8BMypyEwAAxZsf In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Elisa, Am 26.07.2007 23:51 Uhr schrieb "Boschi, Elisa" unter : > Gerhard, > >> >> On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow >> describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my >> impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as >> claimed in the introduction of the draft: >> >> ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific >> configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which >> type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for >> users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. >> Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on >> them. ... >> > > One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative measurement > infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a different vendor and > exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that case, having type > information in the message stream allows ad-hoc preliminary analysis of the > enterprise specific data. > > Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types to work on > them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too "restricted" I have problems with fully accepting this claim. You just know the data type. When is is helpful to know the data type without having a clue about the semantics? Why would in such cases handling of opaque octet strings not be acceptle? Thanks, Juergen >> In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data >> requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be >> enough to display values correctly. Considering >> informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation >> of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or >> not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical >> knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and >> processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with >> specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific >> purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE information. >> > > ...but those ad hoc tools won't be reusable, unless tool specific > configuration or code modification are done for any used Enterprise Specific > IE. And what about if the tools are not updated? > > A real life example that this draft would solve is mentioned in: > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html > > ...which also contains the motivation for this draft. > > Regards, > Elisa > > >> >> Juergen Quittek wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >>> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>> >>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >>> elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers. >>> >>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >>> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen >>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. >>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >>> >>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >>> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>> >>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >>> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Juergen >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IPFIX mailing list >>> IPFIX@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > ****************************************************************************** > ******************** > E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer. > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. > Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the > intended recipient,any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken > or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. > E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does not accept > responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was sent. > > Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the presence of > computer viruses. > ****************************************************************************** > ******************** > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 18:13:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBae-0001jT-Ia; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:13:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBac-0001hO-RZ for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:13:46 -0400 Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([195.37.70.40]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEBab-0001nR-Ts for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 18:13:46 -0400 Received: from localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id F081828016A83; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:46 +0200 (CEST) X-Virus-Scanned: Amavisd on Debian GNU/Linux (atlas1.office) Received: from smtp0.netlab.nec.de ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (atlas1.office [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K1wS4ptflWq1; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:46 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mx1.office (mx1.office [10.1.1.23]) by smtp0.netlab.nec.de (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF62328014C90; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:31 +0200 (CEST) Received: from 130.129.82.248 ([130.129.82.248]) by mx1.office ([10.1.1.23]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:13:30 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/11.3.6.070618 Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:13:27 +0200 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types From: Juergen Quittek To: "Boschi, Elisa" , Message-ID: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Thread-Index: AcfPzxo95ZI1Uv8xRJ++1i8BMypyEwAAxZsf In-Reply-To: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8fbbaa16f9fd29df280814cb95ae2290 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Elisa, Am 26.07.2007 23:51 Uhr schrieb "Boschi, Elisa" unter : > Gerhard, > >> >> On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow >> describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my >> impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as >> claimed in the introduction of the draft: >> >> ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific >> configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which >> type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for >> users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. >> Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on >> them. ... >> > > One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative measurement > infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a different vendor and > exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that case, having type > information in the message stream allows ad-hoc preliminary analysis of the > enterprise specific data. > > Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types to work on > them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too "restricted" I have problems with fully accepting this claim. You just know the data type. When is is helpful to know the data type without having a clue about the semantics? Why would in such cases handling of opaque octet strings not be acceptle? Thanks, Juergen >> In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data >> requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be >> enough to display values correctly. Considering >> informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation >> of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or >> not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical >> knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and >> processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with >> specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific >> purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE information. >> > > ...but those ad hoc tools won't be reusable, unless tool specific > configuration or code modification are done for any used Enterprise Specific > IE. And what about if the tools are not updated? > > A real life example that this draft would solve is mentioned in: > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html > > ...which also contains the motivation for this draft. > > Regards, > Elisa > > >> >> Juergen Quittek wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >>> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>> >>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >>> elements by using option records that map data types to element identifiers. >>> >>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >>> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen >>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. >>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >>> >>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >>> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>> >>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >>> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Juergen >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IPFIX mailing list >>> IPFIX@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > ****************************************************************************** > ******************** > E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer. > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are intended > solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. > Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If you are not the > intended recipient,any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken > or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. > E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does not accept > responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was sent. > > Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the presence of > computer viruses. > ****************************************************************************** > ******************** > > > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From jmolsen@boxoffiz.com Thu Jul 26 19:07:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECR1-0007Jm-Tu; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:07:55 -0400 Received: from astrasbourg-253-1-57-65.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr ([86.213.156.65]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECR0-0002ot-3C; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:07:55 -0400 Received: from [86.213.156.65] by mail.boxoffiz.com; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:07:52 -0100 Message-ID: <01c7cfd9$cb24fc00$419cd556@jmolsen> From: "Carrie Clement" To: Subject: Save US $ 1529.1 Adobe Creative 3 Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 23:07:52 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-2"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 adobe acrobat 8.0 $79 http://Theoemlinksoft.com From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 19:16:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECZH-0004xs-U6; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:16:27 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECZH-0004uf-1m for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:16:27 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECZG-000294-6T for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:16:26 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6QNGDtp075476; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:16:14 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:16:16 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Message-Id: <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:16:15 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Nevil and all, > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. I think IPFIX Aggregation-draft focuses on the aggregation method and reporting methods of aggregation rule. But, now Mediator-draft describes all-around topics of flow and protocol mediation. It is different scope. They seems to be compossible. Do you think integration is necessary ? Do you mean that we consider more the part of aggregation, as first step? Best Regards, Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 Nevil Brownlee wrote: > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Thu Jul 26 19:16:35 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECZH-0004xs-U6; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:16:27 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECZH-0004uf-1m for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:16:27 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IECZG-000294-6T for ipfix@ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 19:16:26 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6QNGDtp075476; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:16:14 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:16:16 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Nevil Brownlee Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> Message-Id: <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:16:15 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Nevil and all, > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. I think IPFIX Aggregation-draft focuses on the aggregation method and reporting methods of aggregation rule. But, now Mediator-draft describes all-around topics of flow and protocol mediation. It is different scope. They seems to be compossible. Do you think integration is necessary ? Do you mean that we consider more the part of aggregation, as first step? Best Regards, Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Thu, 26 Jul 2007 10:08:16 +1200 Nevil Brownlee wrote: > 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) > Needed by (at least) two large operators. > Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregation. > Possible future WG item, continue discussion on mailing list. --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From csupport@hmoz.net Thu Jul 26 20:31:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEDkE-0001Uv-T5 for ipfix-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:31:50 -0400 Received: from [58.226.52.112] (helo=58.226.52.112) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEDkD-0003vY-R1 for ipfix-archive@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2007 20:31:50 -0400 Received: from [58.226.52.112] by (null); Fri, 27 Jul 2007 00:31:49 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c7cfe5$01e7e879$fa9828b2@rwjickj> From: "Hmoz, Inc" To: Subject: Hmoz.net: Your customer details confirmation Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2007 22:44:26 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7CFE5.01E366DA" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7CFE5.01E366DA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable --------------------------------------------- Thank you for using Hmoz.net ! --------------------------------------------- This account created 26 Jul 2007 05:18:20 PM from IP address=20 User Name: ipfix-archive@megatron.ietf.org Password: 7DG9Jb5n Click here to login: http://www.hmoz.net/bb/index.php?u=3Dipfix-archive@megatron.ietf.org&w=3D= session_IDmlb947J7=3Dt Your account ID:10593659 If you use anti-spam email software, be sure to add 'csupport@hmoz.net' = to your list of approved senders. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7CFE5.01E366DA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7CFE5.01E366DA-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 08:19:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOmR-0002fC-1J; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:18:51 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOmO-0002f7-CB for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:18:48 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOmM-0002XK-J2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:18:48 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RCIhpY000827; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:18:44 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9E28D.2060504@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:18:21 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Boschi, Elisa" Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: In-Reply-To: X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.190; host: mx06) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1683862985==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============1683862985== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020404070805000602050506" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020404070805000602050506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Elisa, Boschi, Elisa wrote: >> On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow >> describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my >> impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as >> claimed in the introduction of the draft: >> >> ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific >> configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which >> type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for >> users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. >> Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on >> them. ... >> > > One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative > measurement infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a > different vendor and exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that > case, having type information in the message stream allows ad-hoc > preliminary analysis of the enterprise specific data. If "preliminary analysis" means displaying the values correctly or calculating some simple statistics, I fully agree. If you are aware of any more sophisticated analysis method one could apply without any further semantical knowledge, please let me know. This would make my desicion on this topic easier :) > Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types to > work on them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too > "restricted" There may be cases where displaying values or calculating mean, variance, min, max etc. is just enough to "analyze" the metering data. Yet, traffic analysis methods are usually much more sophisticated and specific to the semantics of the metering data. >> In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data >> requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be >> enough to display values correctly. Considering >> informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation >> of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or >> not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical >> knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and >> processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with >> specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific >> purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE > information. >> > > ...but those ad hoc tools won't be reusable, unless tool specific > configuration or code modification are done for any used Enterprise > Specific IE. And what about if the tools are not updated? > > A real life example that this draft would solve is mentioned in: > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html > > ...which also contains the motivation for this draft. The mentioned example is only about displaying the values correctly. I would not call this "analysis". I'm certainly not against your draft or the idea to describe enterprise-specific IEs. I just think that the usability is restricted, and that it might not be of high relevance in practice. Regards, Gerhard > > Regards, > Elisa > > >> >> Juergen Quittek wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >>> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>> >>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >>> elements by using option records that map data types to element > identifiers. >>> >>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >>> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen >>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. >>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >>> >>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >>> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>> >>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >>> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Juergen >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IPFIX mailing list >>> IPFIX@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > ************************************************************************************************** > E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer. > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they > are addressed. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If > you are not the intended recipient,any disclosure, copying, distribution > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is > prohibited. > E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does not accept > responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was sent. > > Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the > presence of computer viruses. > ************************************************************************************************** > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Münz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --------------ms020404070805000602050506 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJdTCC AxUwggJ+oAMCAQICEGU5u1eI8WeEkIox6PdwkFAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDIxMzEwMzMxOVoX DTA4MDIxMzEwMzMxOVowbDEOMAwGA1UEBBMFTXVlbnoxEDAOBgNVBCoTB0dlcmhhcmQxFjAU BgNVBAMTDUdlcmhhcmQgTXVlbnoxMDAuBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWIW11ZW56QGluZm9ybWF0aWsu 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ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:18:48 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEOmM-0002XK-J2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:18:48 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RCIhpY000827; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:18:44 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9E28D.2060504@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:18:21 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Boschi, Elisa" Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types References: In-Reply-To: X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.190; host: mx06) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a3f7094ccc62748c06b21fcf44c073ee Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1683862985==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============1683862985== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020404070805000602050506" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020404070805000602050506 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Elisa, Boschi, Elisa wrote: >> On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow >> describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my >> impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as broad as >> claimed in the introduction of the draft: >> >> ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific >> configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to tell which >> type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of work for >> users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information Elements. >> Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to work on >> them. ... >> > > One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative > measurement infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a > different vendor and exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that > case, having type information in the message stream allows ad-hoc > preliminary analysis of the enterprise specific data. If "preliminary analysis" means displaying the values correctly or calculating some simple statistics, I fully agree. If you are aware of any more sophisticated analysis method one could apply without any further semantical knowledge, please let me know. This would make my desicion on this topic easier :) > Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types to > work on them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too > "restricted" There may be cases where displaying values or calculating mean, variance, min, max etc. is just enough to "analyze" the metering data. Yet, traffic analysis methods are usually much more sophisticated and specific to the semantics of the metering data. >> In my opinion, any deeper analysis and processing of metering data >> requires knowledge about the semantic. Just knowing the data type may be >> enough to display values correctly. Considering >> informationElementSemanticType, you might also know if the calculation >> of statistical properties (max, min, mean, variance etc.) makes sense or >> not. But any further analysis would probably require more semantical >> knowledge. That's why I assume that, in practice, analyzing and >> processing enterprise-specific data will mostly be performed with >> specialized analysis tools that have been implemented for this specific >> purpose. And for these tools, there is no need to export the IE > information. >> > > ...but those ad hoc tools won't be reusable, unless tool specific > configuration or code modification are done for any used Enterprise > Specific IE. And what about if the tools are not updated? > > A real life example that this draft would solve is mentioned in: > http://www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ipfix/current/msg03040.html > > ...which also contains the motivation for this draft. The mentioned example is only about displaying the values correctly. I would not call this "analysis". I'm certainly not against your draft or the idea to describe enterprise-specific IEs. I just think that the usability is restricted, and that it might not be of high relevance in practice. Regards, Gerhard > > Regards, > Elisa > > >> >> Juergen Quittek wrote: >>> Dear all, >>> >>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >>> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>> >>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >>> elements by using option records that map data types to element > identifiers. >>> >>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know the >>> data type of received information elements. This may in particular happen >>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information the >>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet array. >>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriately. >>> >>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using this >>> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>> >>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >>> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Juergen >>> >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> IPFIX mailing list >>> IPFIX@ietf.org >>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >> > > ************************************************************************************************** > E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer. > > This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are > intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which they > are addressed. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is unauthorised. If > you are not the intended recipient,any disclosure, copying, distribution > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is > prohibited. > E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does not accept > responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was sent. > > Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the > presence of computer viruses. > ************************************************************************************************** > > -- Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Münz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --------------ms020404070805000602050506 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJdTCC AxUwggJ+oAMCAQICEGU5u1eI8WeEkIox6PdwkFAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDIxMzEwMzMxOVoX DTA4MDIxMzEwMzMxOVowbDEOMAwGA1UEBBMFTXVlbnoxEDAOBgNVBCoTB0dlcmhhcmQxFjAU BgNVBAMTDUdlcmhhcmQgTXVlbnoxMDAuBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWIW11ZW56QGluZm9ybWF0aWsu 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for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:49:51 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPGR-0003Vg-9f for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:49:51 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RCnVcd016912; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:49:35 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:49:08 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx05) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de id l6RCnVcd016912 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi, all, kobayashi atsushi wrote: >> 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) >> Needed by (at least) two large operators. >> Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregatio= n. >=20 > I think IPFIX Aggregation-draft focuses on the aggregation method and > reporting methods of aggregation rule. > But, now Mediator-draft describes all-around topics of flow and protoco= l > mediation. It is different scope. >=20 > They seems to be compossible. Do you think integration is necessary ? > Do you mean that we consider more the part of aggregation, as first ste= p? The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is very broad. A short summary of the aspects covered by the aggregation draft to determine potential overlaps: 1) architecture of a concentrator 2) description language for configuring metering processes (essentially input filters and flow keys) 3) a couple of new IEs useful to report aggregates and applied input filters (e.g. port range IE) 4) a new template type to efficiently report information about applied input filters I assume that item 1) is/will be covered in your draft. Item 2) is related to configuration and covered by the configuration draf= t. The remaining items 3) and 4) might be interesting extensions to efficiently report how a mediator modifies/filters the original data. Yet, you would probably try to export this kind of information with exiting protocol mechanisms at first. Regards, Gerhard --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 08:49:54 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPGT-0003az-4i; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:49:53 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPGR-0003au-Rz for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:49:51 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPGR-0003Vg-9f for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:49:51 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RCnVcd016912; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:49:35 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:49:08 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx05) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de id l6RCnVcd016912 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi, all, kobayashi atsushi wrote: >> 5. IPFIX Mediation (Atayushi Kobayashi) >> Needed by (at least) two large operators. >> Could be integrated with Falko Dressler's draft on IPFIX Aggregatio= n. >=20 > I think IPFIX Aggregation-draft focuses on the aggregation method and > reporting methods of aggregation rule. > But, now Mediator-draft describes all-around topics of flow and protoco= l > mediation. It is different scope. >=20 > They seems to be compossible. Do you think integration is necessary ? > Do you mean that we consider more the part of aggregation, as first ste= p? The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is very broad. A short summary of the aspects covered by the aggregation draft to determine potential overlaps: 1) architecture of a concentrator 2) description language for configuring metering processes (essentially input filters and flow keys) 3) a couple of new IEs useful to report aggregates and applied input filters (e.g. port range IE) 4) a new template type to efficiently report information about applied input filters I assume that item 1) is/will be covered in your draft. Item 2) is related to configuration and covered by the configuration draf= t. The remaining items 3) and 4) might be interesting extensions to efficiently report how a mediator modifies/filters the original data. Yet, you would probably try to export this kind of information with exiting protocol mechanisms at first. Regards, Gerhard --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 08:58:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPOJ-0003HC-Rc; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:57:59 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPOI-0003H5-Hm for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:57:58 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPOG-0003NS-W2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:57:58 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RCvlPv020456; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:57:47 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9EBB5.2020801@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:57:25 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Subject: Re: [IPFIX] discussion on telco requirement prior to re chartering References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx05) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de id l6RCvlPv020456 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Emile, all, STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN wrote: > Hi Juergen and Nevil, >=20 > It does not make sense to separate item 3 and 5 because they compliment= together regarding telco needs of standard I/O for IPFIX middlewares.=20 I do not understand your concerns about separating the file format from the mediator draft. Similar to the separation of the IPFIX protocol and the IPFIX architecture, the IPFIX file format describes an interface while the IPFIX mediator is about an architecture and specific application of protocol mechanisms. I assume separating these two aspects is a common approach in the IETF. Regards, Gerhard > I don't support item 4 because it introduces a second level of datamode= ling and because the datatype lists are not extensible.=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards > Emile >=20 >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] >> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 20:54 >> =C0 : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org >> Cc : Romascanu, Dan (Dan) >> Objet : Re: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, >> Duplication,Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, >> Obfuscation ... >> >> Hi Emile, >> >> >> Am 26.07.2007 18:37 Uhr schrieb "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" unter >> : >> >>> HI Juergen and Nevil, >>> >>> Work item #3 >>> Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when >> exchanging >>> these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a >> function >>> of mediation. >> I agree that one may see it this way and it is a very good point to >> consider >> when working on a file format. However, for the discussions we are ha= ving >> I would prefer to separate the discussion on the file format work item >> from >> the discussion on the mediator work item. >> >>> Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: h= ow >> to map >>> a private IE on a standard one? >> Now I understand your requirement. >> However, as it is currently written, the proposed work does not sugges= t to >> map enterprise-specific IEs to standard ones, but to just assign data >> types >> to unknown (enterprise-specific) IEs. This is a use case different to >> yours. >> >>> Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many us= e >> cases >>> and requirements. >> I fully agree. >> >>> Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. >>> At this step, the functions required for interoperability between >> mediators >>> are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the >>> interoperability requirements prior to re charter. >> Thank you for this hint. >> We will consider it if we charter a work item on mediation. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >>> Regards >>> Emile >>> >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] >>>> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 >>>> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org >>>> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >>>> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>>> >>>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>>>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>>>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>>>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>>>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >>>> elements by using option records that map data types to element >>>> identifiers. >>>> >>>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know th= e >>>> data type of received information elements. This may in particular >> happen >>>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information t= he >>>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet >> array. >>>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriatel= y. >>>> >>>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using >> this >>>> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>>> >>>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >>>> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >>>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Juergen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IPFIX mailing list >>>> IPFIX@ietf.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 08:58:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPOJ-0003HC-Rc; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:57:59 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPOI-0003H5-Hm for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:57:58 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPOG-0003NS-W2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:57:58 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RCvlPv020456; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:57:47 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9EBB5.2020801@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:57:25 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN Subject: Re: [IPFIX] discussion on telco requirement prior to re chartering References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx05) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de id l6RCvlPv020456 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Emile, all, STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN wrote: > Hi Juergen and Nevil, >=20 > It does not make sense to separate item 3 and 5 because they compliment= together regarding telco needs of standard I/O for IPFIX middlewares.=20 I do not understand your concerns about separating the file format from the mediator draft. Similar to the separation of the IPFIX protocol and the IPFIX architecture, the IPFIX file format describes an interface while the IPFIX mediator is about an architecture and specific application of protocol mechanisms. I assume separating these two aspects is a common approach in the IETF. Regards, Gerhard > I don't support item 4 because it introduces a second level of datamode= ling and because the datatype lists are not extensible.=20 >=20 >=20 > Regards > Emile >=20 >=20 >> -----Message d'origine----- >> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] >> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 20:54 >> =C0 : STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN; Nevil Brownlee; ipfix@ietf.org >> Cc : Romascanu, Dan (Dan) >> Objet : Re: requirements: Extraction, Distribution, >> Duplication,Aggregation , Storage, Self Description, Anonymization, >> Obfuscation ... >> >> Hi Emile, >> >> >> Am 26.07.2007 18:37 Uhr schrieb "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" unter >> : >> >>> HI Juergen and Nevil, >>> >>> Work item #3 >>> Storing IPFIX records in files requires interoperability only when >> exchanging >>> these files with some one else or some other application. So it's a >> function >>> of mediation. >> I agree that one may see it this way and it is a very good point to >> consider >> when working on a file format. However, for the discussions we are ha= ving >> I would prefer to separate the discussion on the file format work item >> from >> the discussion on the mediator work item. >> >>> Work item #4 points indirectly to a major point concern for telcos: h= ow >> to map >>> a private IE on a standard one? >> Now I understand your requirement. >> However, as it is currently written, the proposed work does not sugges= t to >> map enterprise-specific IEs to standard ones, but to just assign data >> types >> to unknown (enterprise-specific) IEs. This is a use case different to >> yours. >> >>> Work item #5 defines mediator arch & functions. Then it gives many us= e >> cases >>> and requirements. >> I fully agree. >> >>> Work items #3, #4 and #5 give many functions a mediator may implement. >>> At this step, the functions required for interoperability between >> mediators >>> are not identified. So please consider the necessity to define the >>> interoperability requirements prior to re charter. >> Thank you for this hint. >> We will consider it if we charter a work item on mediation. >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >> >>> Regards >>> Emile >>> >>> >>>> -----Message d'origine----- >>>> De : Juergen Quittek [mailto:Quittek@netlab.nec.de] >>>> Envoy=E9 : jeudi 26 juillet 2007 08:28 >>>> =C0 : ipfix@ietf.org >>>> Objet : [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types >>>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> Candidates #4 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >>>> draft draft-boschi-ipfix-extended-type-00.txt. >>>> >>>>> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >>>>> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >>>>> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >>>>> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >>>>> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >>>> It is a method for assigning data types to unknown IPFIX information >>>> elements by using option records that map data types to element >>>> identifiers. >>>> >>>> It can be applied in cases where an IPFIX collector does not know th= e >>>> data type of received information elements. This may in particular >> happen >>>> if enterprise specific elements are used. Without this information t= he >>>> collector would treat these elements as if they were of type octet >> array. >>>> With this information it may be able to treat them more appropriatel= y. >>>> >>>> The current version of the IPFIX file format draft recommends using >> this >>>> method when IPFIX records are stored. >>>> >>>> Do you think this is a useful extension of the IPFIX protocol? >>>> Do you think we should accept this as an IPFIX work item? >>>> Please have a look at the draft and send your comments. >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Juergen >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> IPFIX mailing list >>>> IPFIX@ietf.org >>>> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IPFIX mailing list > IPFIX@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 09:23:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPn3-00069Y-KO; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPn3-00069S-0s for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:33 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPn1-0003w3-Lo for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:32 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RDNAnc009582; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:23:10 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9F1A7.7030000@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:22:47 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <89DC91CA-2F86-4A85-A443-6A6512F184B2@cert.org> In-Reply-To: <89DC91CA-2F86-4A85-A443-6A6512F184B2@cert.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx06) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de id l6RDNAnc009582 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Brian, Brian Trammell wrote: >> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > Another point to reiterate here - the File Format draft includes a > normative reference to this draft, as it uses the Options Template > defined there to meet the self-description requirement when a file > contains Enterprise-Specific Information Elements. The two should be > considered for adoption together. The primary reason the extended type > draft was created (from text originally in the file draft) was that we > (the file draft authors) thought that the method might be useful on the > wire, and we received feedback during and after the meeting in Prague > that we were not the only ones who thought so. The file format should allow to store all the information which is *available* to the collector when it receives the data. Information which is not available will just not be stored. The self-description issue can be considered as an orthogonal problem. You might recommend in your draft that the exporter should export self-descriptive data. How this is done does not have to be specified by the file format, i.e. the reference to the extended types draft is not necessary. Regards, Gerhard --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 09:23:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPn3-00069Y-KO; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:33 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPn3-00069S-0s for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:33 -0400 Received: from mx06.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.3]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEPn1-0003w3-Lo for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:23:32 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6RDNAnc009582; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:23:10 +0200 Message-ID: <46A9F1A7.7030000@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:22:47 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <89DC91CA-2F86-4A85-A443-6A6512F184B2@cert.org> In-Reply-To: <89DC91CA-2F86-4A85-A443-6A6512F184B2@cert.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx06) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx06.uni-tuebingen.de id l6RDNAnc009582 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a7d6aff76b15f3f56fcb94490e1052e4 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Brian, Brian Trammell wrote: >> 4. Extended Types (Elisa Boschi) >> Needed for IPFIX files, most useful for Enterprise IEs; need to >> specify what operations make sense for an IE. >> Support shown for this as a WG item, as for File Format. >> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > Another point to reiterate here - the File Format draft includes a > normative reference to this draft, as it uses the Options Template > defined there to meet the self-description requirement when a file > contains Enterprise-Specific Information Elements. The two should be > considered for adoption together. The primary reason the extended type > draft was created (from text originally in the file draft) was that we > (the file draft authors) thought that the method might be useful on the > wire, and we received feedback during and after the meeting in Prague > that we were not the only ones who thought so. The file format should allow to store all the information which is *available* to the collector when it receives the data. Information which is not available will just not be stored. The self-description issue can be considered as an orthogonal problem. You might recommend in your draft that the exporter should export self-descriptive data. How this is done does not have to be specified by the file format, i.e. the reference to the extended types draft is not necessary. Regards, Gerhard --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 09:49:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQCU-0005oB-97; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQCT-0005o6-94 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:49 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQCS-0004cW-K5 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:49 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.24) with ESMTP id l6RDnWNH029484 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:45 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id l6RDmFBr029410 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:48:15 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id l6RDmEWc029407; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.28.169.45] (vpn-10-25-4-19.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.19]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.66) with ESMTP id l6RDlu1o028596; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:48:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7CDB1CBF-C65E-4BBA-AA88-7C5743514A46@cert.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:48:12 -0500 To: Juergen Quittek X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.001009 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 825e642946eda55cd9bc654a36dab8c2 Cc: "Boschi, Elisa" , ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org All, There seems to be some confusion on the list as to the intent of and method described by the extended type information draft. Speaking here as a coauthor of the draft and the editor of the file draft from which the method was taken, I'd like to see if I can clarify this. In discussing the draft this week, we have realized what we aim to define here is a general method for representing the information element properties available in the IPFIX Information Model within an IPFIX Message stream using IPFIX Options. Information Elements can thus be described inline, framed and encoded the same way as the templates and data they're used to define. The primary use case for this mechanism is the addition of type (signed, unsigned, octet array, address, etc.) and semantic (counter, flags, etc.) information to Enterprise Specific Information Elements to improve the interoperability of this feature. We first defined the mechanism in the file draft as it struck us as most useful to keep this information around in the archival case, so some number of years later when you pull data from tape received from an exporter that you no longer have access to you can at least do some exploratory data analysis. After discussions at the third IPFIX interop in Berlin and the subsequent IETF meeting in Prague, we decided that the mechanism might also be useful on the wire, so we separated the drafts. The draft may need to provide for the encoding of a few more properties (e.g., units, name, perhaps a terse description string, as have been suggested in reviews of the draft and on the list) but these are at this point details, new IEs to be added to section 3, without changing the fundamental approach described. To address two suggestions related to this draft I'm not sure are in scope: First, information element mapping to define a direct equivalence between two IEs: yes, this may be useful, and indeed probably quite simple to implement using an approach like the one we describe, but as there is no concept of equivalence in the IPFIX Information Model, I don't think we should address it here. Second, a complete "capability based" semantic system for enterprise specific IEs (or indeed, any IE), which would essentially enumerate the operations available on any given Information Element: this is summable, this is averageable, this is unionable, and so on. Two things to say here. First, a lot of the operations in this list are aggregation operations, so it would probably make more sense to define this mechanism when we address aggregation as an IE (whether in an aggregation draft or separately at the same time). Second, and again, this draft is simply a mechanism for representing the information model and its properties inline. As IPFIX-INFO does not handle operation enumerations, this draft should not either. Juergen: I have one additional comment inline, below. On Jul 26, 2007, at 5:13 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote: > Hi Elisa, > > Am 26.07.2007 23:51 Uhr schrieb "Boschi, Elisa" unter > : > >> Gerhard, >> >>> >>> On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow >>> describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my >>> impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as >>> broad as >>> claimed in the introduction of the draft: >>> >>> ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific >>> configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to >>> tell which >>> type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of >>> work for >>> users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information >>> Elements. >>> Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to >>> work on >>> them. ... >>> >> >> One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative >> measurement >> infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a different >> vendor and >> exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that case, having type >> information in the message stream allows ad-hoc preliminary >> analysis of the >> enterprise specific data. >> >> Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types >> to work on >> them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too "restricted" > > I have problems with fully accepting this claim. > You just know the data type. > > When is is helpful to know the data type without having a clue > about the > semantics? You _do_ know the semantics, though, in many cases. These are the cases we're largely concerned with. The information model defines five semantics: quantity, totalCounter, deltaCounter, identifier, and flags; these are representable using this method. A collector that knows something is a total counter can do quite a lot with it - time- series binning, aggregation, correlation with other counters, graphical representations of these and other operations, etc. Even with just the type a collector knows how to decode and display a value. Regards, Brian _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 09:49:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQCU-0005oB-97; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:50 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQCT-0005o6-94 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:49 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org ([192.88.209.16]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQCS-0004cW-K5 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:49 -0400 Received: from franclinus.red.cert.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/2.24) with ESMTP id l6RDnWNH029484 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:49:45 -0400 Received: (from defang@localhost) by franclinus.red.cert.org (8.13.1/8.13.1/Submit/1.1) id l6RDmFBr029410 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:48:15 -0400 Received: from villemus.indigo.cert.org (villemus.indigo.cert.org [10.60.10.5]) by franclinus.red.cert.org (envelope-sender ) (MIMEDefang) with ESMTP id l6RDmEWc029407; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:48:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [172.28.169.45] (vpn-10-25-4-19.remote.cert.org [10.25.4.19]) by villemus.indigo.cert.org (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/2.66) with ESMTP id l6RDlu1o028596; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 09:48:14 -0400 In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Message-Id: <7CDB1CBF-C65E-4BBA-AA88-7C5743514A46@cert.org> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Brian Trammell Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #4: extended types Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 08:48:12 -0500 To: Juergen Quittek X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0 required=5 checker=SpamAssassin version=3.001009 X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 825e642946eda55cd9bc654a36dab8c2 Cc: "Boschi, Elisa" , ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org All, There seems to be some confusion on the list as to the intent of and method described by the extended type information draft. Speaking here as a coauthor of the draft and the editor of the file draft from which the method was taken, I'd like to see if I can clarify this. In discussing the draft this week, we have realized what we aim to define here is a general method for representing the information element properties available in the IPFIX Information Model within an IPFIX Message stream using IPFIX Options. Information Elements can thus be described inline, framed and encoded the same way as the templates and data they're used to define. The primary use case for this mechanism is the addition of type (signed, unsigned, octet array, address, etc.) and semantic (counter, flags, etc.) information to Enterprise Specific Information Elements to improve the interoperability of this feature. We first defined the mechanism in the file draft as it struck us as most useful to keep this information around in the archival case, so some number of years later when you pull data from tape received from an exporter that you no longer have access to you can at least do some exploratory data analysis. After discussions at the third IPFIX interop in Berlin and the subsequent IETF meeting in Prague, we decided that the mechanism might also be useful on the wire, so we separated the drafts. The draft may need to provide for the encoding of a few more properties (e.g., units, name, perhaps a terse description string, as have been suggested in reviews of the draft and on the list) but these are at this point details, new IEs to be added to section 3, without changing the fundamental approach described. To address two suggestions related to this draft I'm not sure are in scope: First, information element mapping to define a direct equivalence between two IEs: yes, this may be useful, and indeed probably quite simple to implement using an approach like the one we describe, but as there is no concept of equivalence in the IPFIX Information Model, I don't think we should address it here. Second, a complete "capability based" semantic system for enterprise specific IEs (or indeed, any IE), which would essentially enumerate the operations available on any given Information Element: this is summable, this is averageable, this is unionable, and so on. Two things to say here. First, a lot of the operations in this list are aggregation operations, so it would probably make more sense to define this mechanism when we address aggregation as an IE (whether in an aggregation draft or separately at the same time). Second, and again, this draft is simply a mechanism for representing the information model and its properties inline. As IPFIX-INFO does not handle operation enumerations, this draft should not either. Juergen: I have one additional comment inline, below. On Jul 26, 2007, at 5:13 PM, Juergen Quittek wrote: > Hi Elisa, > > Am 26.07.2007 23:51 Uhr schrieb "Boschi, Elisa" unter > : > >> Gerhard, >> >>> >>> On the one hand, it's a nice idea to have some IEs which allow >>> describing the type and semantic of other IEs. On the other hand, my >>> impression is that the usefulness is very restricted and not as >>> broad as >>> claimed in the introduction of the draft: >>> >>> ... Having to do some sort of tool-specific >>> configuration (or code modification) on every tool just to >>> tell which >>> type each used Information Element has is a huge amount of >>> work for >>> users and implementors of enterprise-specific Information >>> Elements. >>> Many tools in fact only need to know the field's data type to >>> work on >>> them. ... >>> >> >> One of the use cases we have in mind here would be a collaborative >> measurement >> infrastructure where each exporter is implemented by a different >> vendor and >> exports slightly different enterprise IEs. In that case, having type >> information in the message stream allows ad-hoc preliminary >> analysis of the >> enterprise specific data. >> >> Our claim that many tools only need to know the field's data types >> to work on >> them applies...so the usefulness of the draft is not too "restricted" > > I have problems with fully accepting this claim. > You just know the data type. > > When is is helpful to know the data type without having a clue > about the > semantics? You _do_ know the semantics, though, in many cases. These are the cases we're largely concerned with. The information model defines five semantics: quantity, totalCounter, deltaCounter, identifier, and flags; these are representable using this method. A collector that knows something is a total counter can do quite a lot with it - time- series binning, aggregation, correlation with other counters, graphical representations of these and other operations, etc. Even with just the type a collector knows how to decode and display a value. Regards, Brian _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 10:27:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQmj-0002oO-2q; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:27:17 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQmh-0002lr-AF for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:27:15 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQmh-0005Py-0i for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:27:15 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2007 16:27:15 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAFadqUaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaQsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,589,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149185757:sNHT27578796" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6RERET8015986; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:27:14 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6RER8kt029415; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:27:13 GMT Received: from [10.21.127.227] (sjc-vpn6-2019.cisco.com [10.21.127.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03183; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:27:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:27:13 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=375; t=1185546434; x=1186410434; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20*Proposed*=20new=20work=20items, =20take=20t wo |Sender:=20; bh=Zvi6eNZV786Yf7ZwY0nNH8s2YC7rwRDhD+bl0OB7nlM=; b=QzcUDKaag9DdOVNMP4DutBwyDHnDRBKyyW1wpWjvVdJInbkNGqBq3QVfp9wAEA1ruSBL0hoB JvxqHn0/2TyThlxUShjbFl0bEBoNA0/0kGCTuemILg8PceVkl+Ww7HsX; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Gerhard Muenz wrote: > The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > very broad. This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide the mediator into several separate and more general drafts which vendors could implement in a single product? -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 10:27:30 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQmj-0002oO-2q; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:27:17 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQmh-0002lr-AF for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:27:15 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEQmh-0005Py-0i for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:27:15 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-2.cisco.com ([144.254.224.139]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 27 Jul 2007 16:27:15 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAFadqUaQ/uCLZmdsb2JhbACPaQsKJA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.16,589,1175464800"; d="scan'208"; a="149185757:sNHT27578796" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6RERET8015986; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:27:14 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6RER8kt029415; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 14:27:13 GMT Received: from [10.21.127.227] (sjc-vpn6-2019.cisco.com [10.21.127.227]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA03183; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:27:06 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:27:13 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <20070726100816.6mauos2yo008k44k@webmail.auckland.ac.nz> <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> In-Reply-To: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=375; t=1185546434; x=1186410434; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20*Proposed*=20new=20work=20items, =20take=20t wo |Sender:=20; bh=Zvi6eNZV786Yf7ZwY0nNH8s2YC7rwRDhD+bl0OB7nlM=; b=QzcUDKaag9DdOVNMP4DutBwyDHnDRBKyyW1wpWjvVdJInbkNGqBq3QVfp9wAEA1ruSBL0hoB JvxqHn0/2TyThlxUShjbFl0bEBoNA0/0kGCTuemILg8PceVkl+Ww7HsX; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-2; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 1ac7cc0a4cd376402b85bc1961a86ac2 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Gerhard Muenz wrote: > The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > very broad. This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide the mediator into several separate and more general drafts which vendors could implement in a single product? -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 10:45:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IER4a-0001nv-CQ; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IER4Z-0001kz-19 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:43 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IER4X-0005s4-S2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:43 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6REjdwu005513; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:45:40 +0200 Message-ID: <46AA04FD.2000901@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:45:17 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Irino Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx05) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de id l6REjdwu005513 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear Hitoshi, all, I had a look at your slides. Here are some thoughts about it. With respect to the Template structure, I see three aspects which affect the performance of the collector: - Order of IEs. - Reduced size encoding. - Position of variable length IEs in the record. Let's assume the collector has to copy the record data into an internal data structure positioned at a certain address in memory. (Only) if the following two conditions are fulfilled, a performance gain can be achieved by copying blocks of consecutive IEs: 1. Order of IEs (within the block) is the same in the Template and in the internal data structure 2. No reduced size encoding is applied. As you wrote in your email, your collector makes use of this block copying feature. And this feature is the main reason why your collector is so fast when using the "suggested order" at both exporter and collecto= r. J=FCrgen: Common collectors not supporting this block copying feature won't show the same performance gain. So, just repeating the experiments with other collector implementations does not seem to be very promising. Here are some further thoughts: - Having the same order of IEs while using reduced size encoding at the same time does not enable to copy multiple IEs at once. =3D> no performance gain - Not using reduced size encoding at all while allowing random IE orders, we can omit type casts in the collector, but casts usually do not actually require computational resources. =3D> no performance gain - The treatment of variable length IEs always results in performance drawbacks because the offsets of the different IEs cannot be calculated in advance. So, you would probably not use variable length IEs at all if performance is an issue. Also, I do not see how the performance can be increased significantly if variable length IEs are positioned at the end of the record. You still need to calculate all offsets to determine record and set boundaries. A final comment: You often need to convert values from network-byte order to host-byte order. If you do this, you have to process the corresponding IEs separately and cannot use the block copy. Conclusion: Only under the specific conditions described above, using a specialized collector, the performance can be improved. Regards, Gerhard Hitoshi Irino wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > (2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. >> >>> 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) >>> Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. >>> Would this be better as an individual draft? >> >> This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a >> flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the autho= r >> explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and >> collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order >> of information elements with an order according to his proposal >> and achieved significant performance improvements. >> >> Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would >> be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks l= ike >> a very good IPFIX work item. >> >> Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX >> implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if >> the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. >> >> Would any implementor be willing to do so? >> If yes, until when would you have results? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >=20 > A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result > when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have any > time to talk about the reason of difference of performance. >=20 > In the slide, > ( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf ) > I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector > receive data records and write the data to file. > This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file. > The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full > size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.) >=20 > This collector process following steps: > 1) read the data record. > 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory. > 3) write to file from memory. >=20 > I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter > and format of collector. > 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5 > 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs > and reduced size encoding applicable IEs) > 3) Random order > In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements > same as NetFlow version 5 fields. > These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide. >=20 > I measured 10 times this test. > The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows > total time, lower one shows ratio. >=20 > My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information > Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by > suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my > collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to > ipClassOfService) at once. >=20 > I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide. > For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and = a > collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing > means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In > the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random > order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the > counts for processing effects their performance. > my presentation shows one of the best case. >=20 > Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering. >=20 > Example of effective case > writing to files > real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) >=20 > Example of ineffective case > when process each Information Element >=20 > By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration an= d > operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my > draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for > collector. > However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are > not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these > implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is > valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' > implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be > defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's > performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope > to discuss on WG. >=20 > thanks, > Hitoshi Irino >=20 --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Fri Jul 27 10:45:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IER4a-0001nv-CQ; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:44 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IER4Z-0001kz-19 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:43 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IER4X-0005s4-S2 for ipfix@ietf.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 10:45:43 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6REjdwu005513; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:45:40 +0200 Message-ID: <46AA04FD.2000901@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 16:45:17 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Hitoshi Irino Subject: Re: [IPFIX] new work item candidate #6: order of information elements References: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> In-Reply-To: <46A8B2EB.6090800@lab.ntt.co.jp> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.50; VDF: 6.39.0.192; host: mx05) Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de id l6REjdwu005513 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2a76bcd37b1c8a21336eb0a1ea6bbf48 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org, Juergen Quittek X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Dear Hitoshi, all, I had a look at your slides. Here are some thoughts about it. With respect to the Template structure, I see three aspects which affect the performance of the collector: - Order of IEs. - Reduced size encoding. - Position of variable length IEs in the record. Let's assume the collector has to copy the record data into an internal data structure positioned at a certain address in memory. (Only) if the following two conditions are fulfilled, a performance gain can be achieved by copying blocks of consecutive IEs: 1. Order of IEs (within the block) is the same in the Template and in the internal data structure 2. No reduced size encoding is applied. As you wrote in your email, your collector makes use of this block copying feature. And this feature is the main reason why your collector is so fast when using the "suggested order" at both exporter and collecto= r. J=FCrgen: Common collectors not supporting this block copying feature won't show the same performance gain. So, just repeating the experiments with other collector implementations does not seem to be very promising. Here are some further thoughts: - Having the same order of IEs while using reduced size encoding at the same time does not enable to copy multiple IEs at once. =3D> no performance gain - Not using reduced size encoding at all while allowing random IE orders, we can omit type casts in the collector, but casts usually do not actually require computational resources. =3D> no performance gain - The treatment of variable length IEs always results in performance drawbacks because the offsets of the different IEs cannot be calculated in advance. So, you would probably not use variable length IEs at all if performance is an issue. Also, I do not see how the performance can be increased significantly if variable length IEs are positioned at the end of the record. You still need to calculate all offsets to determine record and set boundaries. A final comment: You often need to convert values from network-byte order to host-byte order. If you do this, you have to process the corresponding IEs separately and cannot use the block copy. Conclusion: Only under the specific conditions described above, using a specialized collector, the performance can be improved. Regards, Gerhard Hitoshi Irino wrote: > Dear all, >=20 > (2007/07/26 15:38), Juergen Quittek wrote: >> Dear all, >> >> Candidates #6 to become a new IPFIX work item is described by >> draft draft-irino-ipfix-ie-order-02.txt. >> >>> 6. Order of Information Elements (Irino) >>> Interesting, need more people to measure possible efficiency gain. >>> Would this be better as an individual draft? >> >> This draft suggests a special ordering of information elements in a >> flow record. At the very brief presentation at our session, the autho= r >> explained that he can improve the performance of IPFIX exporter and >> collector significantly. To prove this, he compared a random order >> of information elements with an order according to his proposal >> and achieved significant performance improvements. >> >> Speaking as technical contributor, I think that if these results would >> be the same also for other implementations of IPFIX, then this looks l= ike >> a very good IPFIX work item. >> >> Speaking as co-chair, I would like to ask everybody who has an IPFIX >> implementation to conduct a short experiment in order to find out if >> the improvement is the same for his/her implementations. >> >> Would any implementor be willing to do so? >> If yes, until when would you have results? >> >> Thanks, >> >> Juergen >=20 > A day before yesterday, I had a presentation about a performance result > when exporters and collectors use same order, however I didn't have any > time to talk about the reason of difference of performance. >=20 > In the slide, > ( http://www3.ietf.org/proceedings/07jul/slides/ipfix-10.pdf ) > I use very primitive collector which I implemented. This collector > receive data records and write the data to file. > This collector has internal proprietary format to store to data to file. > The format consists of some Information Elements whose size are full > size. (For example, bgpSourceAsNumber is 4 octets.) >=20 > This collector process following steps: > 1) read the data record. > 2) convert received data records to the collector's format on memory. > 3) write to file from memory. >=20 > I tested each combination of 3 kind of orders for template of exporter > and format of collector. > 1) An order same as NetFlow version 5 > 2) Suggested Order in my draft (separating constant fixed length IEs > and reduced size encoding applicable IEs) > 3) Random order > In this test, exporter's template includes set of Information Elements > same as NetFlow version 5 fields. > These templates and formats are shown in page 9 in the slide. >=20 > I measured 10 times this test. > The matrix table in page 4 is the result of this test. Upper one shows > total time, lower one shows ratio. >=20 > My collector program can process bulk of sequential Information > Elements. For example in the case reading from date records ordered by > suggested order to writing format formed by suggested order, my > collector program copies first 20 octets (from sourceIPv4Address to > ipClassOfService) at once. >=20 > I described counts for processing in from page 10 to 12 in the slide. > For example, in the best case that a exporter uses suggested order and = a > collector uses suggested order, the counts for processing (processing > means coping data in this case) is 8 (on middle table in page 11). In > the worst case a exporter uses random order and collector uses random > order, the counts is 17 (on right table in page 11). Difference of the > counts for processing effects their performance. > my presentation shows one of the best case. >=20 > Therefore, there are effective case and ineffective case by ordering. >=20 > Example of effective case > writing to files > real time flow filtering (comparing bulk data) >=20 > Example of ineffective case > when process each Information Element >=20 > By the way, if all exporter supports draft-muenz-ipfix-configuration an= d > operators can set configuration about template completely freely, my > draft is not important, because operator can adjust configuration for > collector. > However currently NetFlow v9 implementations of some router makers are > not configurable at all. Operators can choice preset template on these > implementations. If this state continues in future, reference order is > valuable for these exporters' implementations and collectors' > implementations. Therefore I've thought a reference order should be > defined as Informational. I suggested an order adjusted for collector's > performance, however perhaps it is not suitable for exporter. So I hope > to discuss on WG. >=20 > thanks, > Hitoshi Irino >=20 --=20 Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M=FCnz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From clnozekra@wlacpa.com Fri Jul 27 11:27:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IERii-0006k5-Ig; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:27:12 -0400 Received: from [218.31.50.158] (helo=wlacpa.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IERic-00074s-4n; Fri, 27 Jul 2007 11:27:10 -0400 Message-ID: <30b001c7d046$6ccb0100$5e3f082e@clnozekra> Reply-To: "Tawna" From: "Tawna" To: "Elmer Carr" Cc: "Chana" , "Dierdre Nguyen" , "Vinnie" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Kiara" Subject: What about ur suggestion Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2007 12:05:29 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_649_8C2B_45FC7805.CA452FCB" X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: ce732c7d36989a1bd55104ba259c40a1 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_649_8C2B_45FC7805.CA452FCB Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_002_28DA_FF57FC72.97D06ED7" ------=_NextPart_002_28DA_FF57FC72.97D06ED7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "Ah! ye were sorry to spilled dirty leave school for ok good pig-minding,= weren't ye?" "Look angrily 'ee here, Jan Lake," said he. program "Do 'ee= thenk THEE could complete paint the scale sign? I dunno what I'd give ' = body "I don't remember, my story dear," reaction said concerned Mr. Ford'= s client. "Well, well, Master Chuter," said the painter and rely stretch decorator,= rising to test go, "let the skip boy draw pigs an control They include m= embers of very politely eye saw diverse corporations. Some, more industri= ous and equipped with better t deep Still support butter manage influence= and comfort me." 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------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C35484.01250049-- From sniderjgycoo@pdp.ch Sat Jul 28 04:17:02 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEhTx-0002ze-Ts; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 04:17:01 -0400 Received: from [203.113.131.154] (helo=pdp.ch) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEhTv-0006Z6-VC; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 04:17:01 -0400 Message-ID: <3e3101c7d105$20d88190$58829d54@sniderjgycoo> Reply-To: "Nicki Spencer" From: "Nicki Spencer" To: "Kyle Thomas" Cc: "Rossana Bradley" , "Lisa Perez" , "Shana" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org> Subject: Happy or sad, we care Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 10:50:35 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Assisting over 220,000 consumers Discount-Pharmacy is your safety medicine supply for the cheapest value for all your email order medicine treatment(s). 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As Master Swift bad cat put on his spectacles, each fault in the pai wave Deep emotion kept the old man silent. food It was pause a mixed wonderful feeling, ~ first, intense pride and pleasure, a My pencil forces a third family upon the notice already overburdened Spider; and view this too loss bear is peacefully acc For some gestic years the ex-servant before stare of the windmill had been rather favored by fortune wrong than otherwise. He The back slain gallery, 5 or 6 millimetres (.195 to .234 inch.-- Translator's design Note.) wide, woman is shear too narrow t From skenyonmiale@ttn.net Sat Jul 28 13:03:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEphR-0007wV-9n; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:03:29 -0400 Received: from 114.136.132.202.dynamic.ttn.net ([202.132.136.114] helo=ttn.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEphL-0005sE-OL; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 13:03:29 -0400 Message-ID: <289801c7d162$ecc93d00$8d03513f@skenyonmiale> From: "Darnell Stevens" To: "Irma Richardson" Cc: "Marlys" , "Coletta Perry" , "Carman Reid" <6lowpan@lists.ietf.org>, "Kami Cruz" , "Karie" Subject: Listen to your heart Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 22:02:01 +0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_59B_0098_2465B9BC.04F28C22" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 4.8 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 410b68b37343617c6913e76d02180b14 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_59B_0098_2465B9BC.04F28C22 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_8A0_2EC7_B2F000EB.480D769A" ------=_NextPart_8A0_2EC7_B2F000EB.480D769A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The development old man chew winced as if some one had struck him in the = bury face, then he muttered, bind "The wood! Ay, to be "Then I can go dus= t into the cellar in excited hide the sold day, and the wood at night," r= etorted Amabel; but in her heart noise sleepily "Will find adjustment be = get round, sir?" he asked. No trousers further misfortune befell him. William, if loutish and a bit = of a bully sped on curve occasion, was blade not an i On hearing the feli= ne story, the detective say expressed his trade opinion (founded on delig= ht acquaintance with Sal) that Ge try The hunchback began to reply with a= ngry oaths, but Sal made through signs to him to circle be nuptial silent= , and said, "It gun The windmiller was beyond no great scholar, as was ex= ercise interest shown by his reply: - It consists of a self cotton bag, closed all round, copy save for a small= opening force at the space side, just sufficient The Lycosa always plain= blood works at night, a play regrettable circumstance, which does knife = not allow me to follow the report army M M hand F built M F M M M Should = surprise all chess the rooms be slung available, a rare company occurrenc= e, there still remains a method of distinguishing Can animal industry, ta= ble like our own, obey the law of economy, the sovran law hot that thread= long governs our industri Then he suddenly addressed Jan. dig kettle dog= "Do ye measure know me, my lad?" The doctor shook his head, and Master Swift felt pass a double pang. He p= urpose was sorry copy about Abel, offer but the rea The early-ripening se= edlets of the widows attract and poplars furnish the materials pain for p= leasant the only work. There brea For William's sufferings clock under t= hat instrument of discipline were not march fair to pull be measured by h= is doleful "What be 'ee so voolish for as to bang say frantically nothin' when glamo= rous her wollops crime 'ee?" he asked of Jan, in a very frie poorly arm With his mother's letter (it had been written at Moerdyk, ring= on her way clean to England) before them, Jan an F sang memorise fill M = F spin F M M For some days Nurse's fable ugly availed. Amabel had suffere= d a good deal smoke shame from Bogy; and, right though the fear Jan was = profuse of thanks, and sprout pled by the woman's desire sagittal he sat = down brass to share their breakfast. The hunch leave I think, as a rule, children are street very brave. talk But a ligh= t heart goes depend a long way towards courage. At f substance float gree= dily "Before I tore could get paper, I did, sir," said Jan. The gentle re= ader will willingly verse book leave a veil over that meeting, which the = artist courageous euxine felt a generous sh "I'm example just as wound so= rry as bind yourself. He's a fine guide lad, with something angelic about= the face, when ye sepa ------=_NextPart_8A0_2EC7_B2F000EB.480D769A Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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The development old man chew winced as if some on= e had struck him in the bury face, then he muttered, bind "The wood! Ay, = to be "Then I can go dust into the cellar in excited hide the sold day, a= nd the wood at night," retorted Amabel; but in her heart noise sleepily "= Will find adjustment be get round, sir?" he asked.
 
No trousers further misfortune befell him. Willia= m, if loutish and a bit of a bully sped on curve occasion, was blade not = an i On hearing the feline story, the detective say expressed his trade o= pinion (founded on delight acquaintance with Sal) that Ge try The hu= nchback began to reply with angry oaths, but Sal made through signs to hi= m to circle be nuptial silent, and said, "It gun The windmiller was = beyond no great scholar, as was exercise interest shown by his reply: -&n= bsp; 
It consists of a self cotton bag, closed all roun= d, copy save for a small opening force at the space side, just sufficient= The Lycosa always plain blood works at night, a play regrettable circums= tance, which does knife not allow me to follow the report army M M hand F= built M F M M M Should surprise all chess the rooms be slung available, = a rare company occurrence, there still remains a method of distinguishing= Can animal industry, table like our own, obey the law of economy, the so= vran law hot that thread long governs our industri Then he suddenly addre= ssed Jan. dig kettle dog "Do ye measure know me, my lad?"
The doctor shook his head, and Master Swift felt = pass a double pang. He purpose was sorry copy about Abel, offer but the r= ea The early-ripening seedlets of the widows attract and poplars furnish = the materials pain for pleasant the only work. There brea  For = William's sufferings clock under that instrument of discipline were not m= arch fair to pull be measured by his doleful
 
"What be 'ee so voolish for as to bang say franti= cally nothin' when glamorous her wollops crime 'ee?" he asked of Jan, in = a very frie
poorly arm With his mother's letter (it had been = written at Moerdyk, ring on her way clean to England) before them, Jan an= F sang memorise fill M F spin F M M For some days Nurse's fable ugly ava= iled. Amabel had suffered a good deal smoke shame from Bogy; and, right t= hough the fear  Jan was profuse of thanks, and sprout pled by t= he woman's desire sagittal he sat down brass to share their breakfast. Th= e hunch
leave I think, as a rule, children are street ver= y brave. talk But a light heart goes depend a long way towards courage. A= t f substance float greedily "Before I tore could get paper, I did, sir,"= said Jan. The gentle reader will willingly verse book leave a veil over = that meeting, which the artist courageous euxine felt a generous sh "I'm = example just as wound sorry as bind yourself. He's a fine guide lad, with= something angelic about the face, when ye sepa  
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1IEs9B-0006DU-Dj; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:40:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEs99-00062L-L5 for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:40:15 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEs91-0005kQ-My for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:40:15 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6SJdtab000165; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:39:55 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:39:57 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken In-Reply-To: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 485c16ccf4ca6ef309699ad6279bf354 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Re: Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Thank you for your valuable comments. Please see in-line. Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:39:11 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > Please see my comments inline. > > > > IPFIX Working Group A. Kobayashi > > Internet-Draft K. Ishibashi > > Intended status: Informational T. Kondoh > > Expires: December 25, 2007 NTT PF Lab. > > D. Matsubara > > Hitachi > > June 23, 2007 > > > > > > Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators > > draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt > > > > Status of this Memo > > > > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > > > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > > Drafts. > > > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > > > This Internet-Draft will expire on December 25, 2007. > > > > Copyright Notice > > > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 1] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Abstract > > > > An IPFIX Mediator is an intermediate node between IPFIX devices and > > "devices" -> "Exporting Processes" > > > traffic collectors. This node acts as an IPFIX proxy, IPFIX > > "traffic collectors" -> "IPFIX Collecting Processes". > > "This node" -> "A mediator" > Yes. I will correct them in next version. > > firewall, and IPFIX concentrator. An IPFIX Mediator mediates the > > IPFIX protocol using several functions. That enables the traffic > > monitoring system to become a high-capacity system and accommodate a > > variety of traffic monitoring methods. This document describes each > > function that is provided by IPFIX Mediators and the method of > > handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this > > describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. > > It's unclear what this last line means. > "this" indicates this draft. This document describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator which refer to chapter 5. > > > > > > Table of Contents > > > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 > > 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > > 3. Internal Components Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > > 3.1. Collecting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > > 3.2. Metering Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > > 3.2.1. Selection Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > > 3.2.3. Modification Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > > 3.3. Exporting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > > 3.4. Storing Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.1. Export Time Issue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.3. Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.4. Transport Session Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > > 4.5. Option Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 > > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 > > 7. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 > > 8. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 > > 9. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > > 9.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > > 9.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 28 > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 2] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 1. Introduction > > > > Several problems regarding traffic monitoring have occurred in > > several networks, as follows. > > Can you cite some references for this? > I can't cite some references now. Until submitting the next version, I will search for some references. > > > > o Scalability of collector on large-scale networks > > > > As the sizes of networks become larger, the number of Flow Records > > becomes greater. Large numbers of Flow Records have been > > burdening management networks and the collecting process. > > Maintaining scalability is difficult as a particular network > > grows. Generally, network operations need to monitor overall > > wide-scale traffic behavior and investigate detailed traffic > > information when traffic incidents happen. Meeting these > > requirements seems to be difficult for a single collector node > > because of large numbers of Flow Records. > > > > o Handling multifaceted network environment > > > > On the other hand, networks such as IPv4, IPv6, and VPN on MPLS > > have recently become more multifaceted. These sorts of Flow > > What do you mean by "multifaceted"? > Simply, I mean that the variety of packets, such as IPv4 and IPv6, are passed thought in the same network. Especially, MPLS network handles the several customer's traffic as VPN traffic, such as pseudo wire or L3VPN. I means that networks are integrating variety of traffic. I will add the explanation in this paragraph. > > Records need to be analyzed separately from a different > > perspective. However, handling them separately without improving > > the capability of the Collector is difficult. > > > > o Exchanging traffic information between different networks > > > > Traffic information is considered to be necessary for ISP network > > providers as well as each customer. To that end, the network > > provider needs to export specified Flow Records while avoiding > > privacy violations. In addition, exchanging traffic information > > between the associated networks could be necessary when traffic > > incidents happen. In that case, the Flow Records should be > > checked according to the service provider's policy before > > exporting. Therefore, Flow Records exported from Exporter > > directly without modification can not be fed each customer or > > "can not be fed *to* each customer" yes. I will correct it in the next version. > > > associated network operators without modification. > > > > IPFIX Mediators enable us to overcome these problems by preprocessing > > Flow Records. By defining IPFIX Mediators, we can take increasing > > advantage of an extensive template format, and handle Flow Records in > > accordance with our preference. This document describes some > > solutions using IPFIX Mediators that solve these problems and > > components that are needed in the internal process. > > > > The IPFIX Mediator, which is located between one or more Exporting > > Processes and one or more Collecting Processes, has a main function > > for handling Flow Records. That function stores original Flow > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 3] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Records and mediates them. In addition, renewed Flow Records are > > It's worth defining what mediation is. I will add the description about Flow Mediation and IPFIX protocol Mediation presented by my slide. > Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? This part is described about Flow Mediation. I means that the "renewed Flow Records" is modified Flow Records or aggregated Flow Records. Modification of Flow Records means that some fields are added and deleted, and whose value are modified. I will adds the description in the next version. > > generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic > > analyzer in accordance with flow content. > > Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise > Specific elements? > Mediator doesn't need to understand all content, as semantic. After decoding by the collecting process, Flow Records are distributed in accordance with specified elements contents, such as input IF indexes or Peering AS. In this case, Mediator doesn't need to understand other field contents. In the distribution of Flow Records, Some fields which should be understood are restricted. > > The internal model of a Mediator is composed of Collecting Processes, > > Metering Processes, and Exporting Processes. IPFIX Mediator acts as > > a Collector by receiving Flow Records, and it acts as an Exporter by > > sending Flow Records. This dual-role architecture enables cascading > > Mediators and building a combination of several solutions. > > > > This document describes a model of a solution scenario by using IPFIX > > Mediator and its key component. > > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL","SHALL NOT", > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > > document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 4] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 2. Terminology > > > > The definitions of basic IPFIX and PSAMP terms are identical with > > those in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework], [RFC3917], > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info], and > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture]. Other than the above terminology, the > > following terminology related to IPFIX Mediator is used in this > > document. Therefore, the terms defined in the IPFIX terminology are > > capitalized in this document. > > > > IPFIX Mediator > > > > An IPFIX Mediator hosts at least one pair of Exporting Process and > > Collecting Process. An IPFIX Mediator may have the Metering > > "at least one Exporting Process and one Collecting Process". > > > Process and Storing Process as optional. An IPFIX Proxy, an IPFIX > > "may optionally have Metering Processes and Storing Processes". > Yes. I will correct them in the next version. > > Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX > > Mediators. > > This last line is unclear. > In next version, I will add the description about what is IPFIX Mediator. I means that IPFIX Mediator is generic name of the several nodes, such as the IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall and IPFIX concentrator. > > > > Original Exporter > > > > An Original Exporter hosts Observation Points where IP packets can > > be observed. > > > > IPFIX Proxy > > > > An IPFIX Proxy acts as a proxy for Original Exporter, which hosts > > "Exporters" > Yes. > > Observation Points. An IPFIX Proxy may receive Flow Records from > > one or multiple Exporting Processes, and send them to one or > > multiple Collecting Processes. An IPFIX Proxy does not send the > > information about an Original Exporter to the Collector to act as > > an Original Exporter. > > This last line is unclear. > IPFIX proxy does not send the the information about an Original Exporter, such as "exporterIPv{4|6}Address" to the Collector. > > > > IPFIX Firewall > > > > An IPFIX Firewall exports the Flow Records to a different network > > domain at the edge of the self-network domain. From the > > Collector's point of view, an IPFIX Firewall acts as an Original > > Exporter, just like an IPFIX Proxy. In addition, an IPFIX > > Firewall reviews whether received Flow Records are passed forward > > to the Collector to hide the network topology or privacy > > information. > > Does it block records, or modify them? eg, does it anonymise them? > I think that above functions are included in the IPFIX Firewall. At least, IPFIX Firewall has one function of above functions, such as filtering, modifying and anonymizing. I will add the description about it in the next version. > > > > Metering Process > > > > The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators can be considered the > > partial Metering Process separated from the Metering Process in > > the Original Exporter. The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators > > consists of a set of subprocesses that includes the Selection > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 5] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Process, the Aggregation Process and the Modification Process. > > The Metering Process generates the final Flow Records that should > > be exported. > > > > Selection Process > > > > The Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator is similar to that of > > PSAMP Devices, which is described in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework]. > > However, the Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator differs from > > the following functions. The Selection Process in PSAMP Devices > > has two types of selection functions: Filtering and Sampling. In > > addition, the filtering function has two types of filtering > > methods: field-match filtering and hash-based selection. The > > Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator has only the field-match > > filtering functions. This filtering function selects Flow Records > > based on Flow Record content. The Selection Process is one of the > > subprocesses in the Metering Process. > > > > Aggregation Process > > > > The Aggregation Process creates aggregated Flow Records from > > inputted Flow Records, in accordance with aggregation rules that > > are described in [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. The > > Aggregation Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering > > Process. > > > > Modification Process > > > > The Modification Process carries out the addition, deletion, and > > modification of the Information Elements included in inputted Flow > > Records. The Modification Process adds Information Elements like > > derived packet properties that canot be extracted in the Original > > Exporter. Information Elements related to derived packet > > properties are described in [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info]. In addition, > > the Modification Process modifies the values of the specific > > Information Element. For example, the modification of values is > > "the values of specific Information Elements" Yes. I will correct this term in the draft. > > > like anonymizing some Information Elements to avoid violating > > privacy. The Modification Process deletes some Information > > Elements included in inputted Flow Records. The Modification > > Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering Process. > > - and presumably this is a key part of a firewall? Yes. But, the modification process is not limited as the functions of IPFIX firewall. If the Modification Process adds the BGP Next Hop Address into the Flow Records, this node is not implied to the IPFIX Firewall. > > > > Storing Process > > > > The Storing Process selects specified Information Elements > > according to the storing rules, and then stores inputted Flow > > Records in a storage system such as a database or flat-file > > system. Information Elements are specified in storing rules. In > > addition, the Observation Domain ID and Export Time in the header > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 6] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > of IPFIX messages are specified in the storing rules. > > How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? This part is out of scope of this document. As solution, several solution can be considered. In case of our system, other node, such as analyzer, submitted the query that contains the specified time slot as XML, IPFIX Mediator replies this query by replaying the NetFlow packets. > > > > > Distribute Function > > > > The Distribute Function distributes final Flow Records based on > > the Flow content. The final Flow Records are handled by the > > Exporting Process to export them to Collector. Each classified > > Flow Record is exported to each Collector. > > To all collectors, or to a subset? > To a subset. I mean that the classified Flow Records are exported to the specified Collector. > > > > Observation Domain ID > > > > An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and > > Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX > > header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of > > Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does > > not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If > > inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the > > Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. > > I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. > Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the > mediation device. This part need a discussion with IPFIX members. If IPFIX Proxy handles one exporting session and one collecting session, simply IPFIX Proxy doesn't need to change the observation domain values. I think, If IPFIX Proxy handles multiple session on the both sides, IPFIX Proxy needs to assign the new Observation Domain values. > > Transport Session Information > > > > In SCTP, the Transport Session Information is the SCTP > > association. In TCP and UDP, the Transport Session Information > > corresponds to a 5 tuple {exporter IP address, collector IP > > address, exporter transport port, collector transport port, > > transport protocol}. In IPFIX Mediator, the Collecting Process > > manages this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 7] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 3. Internal Components Model > > > > The following figure indicates four components (Collecting Process, > > Metering Process, Exporting Process, and Storing Process) within the > > IPFIX Mediator that are referred to in [RFC3917]. The Metering > > Process can have one or multiple subprocesses. These subprocesses > > are the Selection Process, Aggregation Process, and Modification > > Process that can be connected to each other in any sequence defined > > by the user. The Metering Process and Storing Process are options. > > > > > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | IPFIX Mediator | > > | .----------. .---------. | > > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > > | | |-->|sub |->|sub |->|sub |-->| | | > > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | |IPFIX > > --> | | ||#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > > | | | |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > > | | | '-------------------------------' | | | > > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > > | | | .-------. | | | > > | | |->|Storing| | | | > > | | | |Process| | | | > > | | | '-------' | | | > > | '----------' '---------' | > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to > the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too > (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of > the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering > Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. > Good idea. Roughly, I can image following figure. +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | IPFIX Mediator | | .----------. .---------. | | | | .-------------------------------. | | | | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | | | |--->sub |-->sub |->|sub |-->| | | IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | IPFIX --> | |.->|#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> | | || |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | | | || '----|----------|----------|----' | | | | | || | | | | | | | | || .--\/---------\/---------\/--. | | | | | |'---| Storing Process |<--| | | | | |--->| |-->| | | | | | '----------------------------' | | | | | |------------------------------------>| | | | '----------' '---------' | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > Figure A: Key components within IPFIX Mediator. > > > > Each process is associated with a common identifier in the IPFIX > > Mediator. This method is similar to PSAMP associations in > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech]. > > > > 3.1. Collecting Process > > > > This process receives Flow Records from the previous Exporter. The > > instance of this process is created according to the IPFIX session. > > This process has functions that are described in > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. The Collecting Process also forwards > > received Flow Records with IPFIX header information and Transport > > Session Information to multiple Metering Processes or Storing > > Processes. In other words, Flow Records can be duplicated by > > forwarding several Metering Processes. In addition, the Collecting > > Or Exporting Processes. > Yes. Flow Records can be duplicated by forwarding several Metering Processes or Exporting Processes. > > Process can directly forward Flow Records to Exporting Process. > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 8] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 3.2. Metering Process > > > > This process generates the renewed Flow Records from inputted Flow > > Records with received IPFIX header information, such as "Export Time" > > and "Observation Domain ID". This process hosts the several > > subprocesses. The processing order of these functions, which could > > be located by user definitions, would lead to different renewed Flow > > Records. > > > > 3.2.1. Selection Process > > > > This process decides whether each Flow Record passes through to the > > next process. Theprocess has a filtering function and selects Flow > > Typo, "Theprocess". Thanks. > > > Records that are matched under given conditions. Prior to receiving > > Flow Records, this process has instruction pattern data that are > > defined by the user, which specifies how the Flow Records are treated > > by this process. If the value of some Information Elements in the > > Flow Record match the instruction pattern, this process selects Flow > > Records with all fields and forwards these Flow Records to the next > > process. For example, this process selects the Flow Records that are > > included in the specified destination IP address. > > > > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process > > As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not > originally key fields? > I think that the aggregate key field does not depend on the original key fields. > > > > This process gathers Flow Records within a given time interval and > > then distinguishes Flow Records that have common properties. If > > values of a given key field are the same, that means these Flow > > Records have common properties. This process merges Flow Records > > that have a common property and creates an aggregated Flow Record. > > Therefore, for example, aggregated Flow Records have an aggregation > > counter that indicates the number of packets. These functions are > > defined in accordance with the IPFIX aggregation rule in > > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. > > > > The process has instructions that are user defined prior to receiving > > Flow Records. The process indicates the Information Elements that > > should become aggregated flow keys and other Information Elements > > that should be kept or discarded. In addition, these instruction > > rules include Information Elements that should be added to aggregated > > Flow Records. The aggregated Flow Records may need to complement > > information that is discarded during the aggregation process. They > > help the Collector to analyze aggregated Flow Records. For example, > > these Information Elements correspond to "averageActiveTime", > > "synCount", and "flowCount" elements, as follows. > > > > o averageActiveTime > > > > This Information Element indicates average time in milliseconds of > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 9] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > difference between flow start time and end time of each flow > > included in the aggregated flow. This Information Element is > > created from the flow time stamp Information Elements. There are > > "flowStartSeconds", "flowEndSeconds", "flowStartMilliSeconds", > > "flowEndMilliSeconds", "flowStartSysUpTime", and > > "flowEndSysUpTime". Moreover, "minimumActiveTime" and > > "maxmumActiveTime" might be considered in addition to the element. > > > > o synCount > > > > This Information Elements the number of Flow Records that have > > "tcpControlBits" which the SYN bit sets to 1 in an aggregated > > flow. Using this element, we can determine the number of SYN > > packets throughout the network. Moreover, "ackCount", "finCount", > > "pshCount", "urgCount", and "rstCount" might be considered in > > addition to this element. > > > > o flowCount > > > > This Information Element is the number of Flow Records included in > > the aggregated flow. > > > > 3.2.3. Modification Process > > > > This process modifies the received Flow Records. This process can > > add the new Information Elements, delete included Information > > Elements, or modify the value of included Information Elements, as > > follows. If this process modify the original template, it SHOULD > > revise the received "flowKeyIndicator". > > > > Addition of new Information Element > > > > This function adds specified Information Elements into the > > inputted Flow Records. The values of Information Elements are > > extracted by searching some database based on the inputted content > > of Flow Records. The added Information Elements and used > > Information Elements are configured according to instructions by > > the user to obtain the value. The method to obtain the value from > > some Information Elements is outside the scope of this document. > > > > The IPFIX Mediator instead of the Original Exporter adds a derived > > packet property parameter, which is useful for the traffic > > monitoring technique. Doing that can compensate for the inability > > of some Exporters to add a derived packet property parameter. > > Hereby, the Collector does not need to recognize the difference > > between implementations of routers from several vendors. For > > example, the addition of "bgpNextHop{IPv4|IPv6}Address" and > > "bgpCommunity" Information Elements is useful for making a traffic > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 10] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > matrix that covers the whole network domain. "bgpNextHop{IPv4| > > IPv6}Address" can indicate the egress router of some network > > domain. In addition, "bgpCommunity" can indicate the same group > > of destination or source IP addresses. This value can be given by > > looking for the BGP route database based on the destination or > > source IP address. In addition, "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher", > > which can not be extracted from the core router in MPLS networks, > > indicates the customer's identification. We can monitor the > > traffic behavior per customer by adding > > "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher" to the Flow Records. This value can > > be given by looking for the BGP route database based on the > > "mplsTopLabelStackSection" and "mplsTopLabel{IPv4|IPv6}Address". > > > > Deletion of Information Element > > > > This function deletes specified Information Elements according to > > the instructions that are configured by the user, which indicate > > whether an Information Element should be removed. Hiding network > > topology information and private information by using this > > function is possible. > > > > In the case of exchanging Flow Records with different network > > domains or customers, this function can avoid making a > > vulnerability by deleting unnecessary Information Elements. By > > deleting unnecessary Information Elements, this function can hide > > the network topology and another customer's information. In > > particular, "ipNextHopIP{v4|v6}Address", "bgpNextHopIP{v4| > > v6}Address", and "bgp{Next|Prev}AdjacentAsNumber" correspond to > > network topology information. In addition, MPLS-related > > Information Elements, such as "mplsLabelStackSection", that are > > useless for customers might be removed in the case of feeding the > > Flow Records to VPN customers. > > > > Modification of the value of Information Element > > > > This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements > > according to instructions configured by the user. > > > > For example, this function enables us to overwrite private > > information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP > > address and port number is sensitive private information. In the > > case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these > > Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. > > In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information > > Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can > > anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which > > Information Elements are anonymized. For example, > > "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 11] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". > > The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. > > Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information > Elements? This point has been already discussed in ML. > > > > 3.3. Exporting Process > > > > This process forwards Flow Records to the next Collector. These > > processes manage the reporting template and make an IPFIX datagram. > > > > In addition, this process has the Distribution Function as an option. > > If this function is enabled, this process distributes Flow Records > > based on Flow content and then exports each classified Flow Record to > > each Collector. > > > > The Exporting Process distributes Flow Records on the basis of the > > peering AS, as shown in the following figure. Each classified Flow > > Peer AS in the incoming data, or on the Exporting side? Is BGP required? > > Surely this would/should be user configurable? I means this is example. Which field is selected in order to distribute Flow Records should be configurable. I will modify next version. It is too short description > > Record is exported to a dedicated Collector on the basis of the > > Peering AS. > > > > +-------------------------------------------+ > > | IPFIX Mediator .----------. | > > | |Exporting | | > > | |Process | | > > | .----------. .---------. | | | PeerAS#100 > > Flow -->|Collecting|->|Metering |----->/------------> Collector#A > > Records |Process | |Process | | | | | PeerAS#200 > > | '----------' '---------' | /------------> Collector#B > > | | | | | PeerAS#300 > > | | /------------> Collector#C > > | | | | | PeerAS#400 > > | | /------------> Collector#D > > | | | | > > | '----------' | > > +-------------------------------------------+ > > > > Figure B: Exporting each classified Flow Record to dedicated Collector. > > > > 3.4. Storing Process > > > > This process selects specified Information Elements using the storing > > instruction from the inputted Flow Records. Prior to receiving Flow > > What is the "storing instruction" ? > The Flow Records which are wanted to store by user might not be equal to received Flow Records. The meaningless fields could be discarded by user. The storing instruction means the configured information by user. It indicates fields which should be stored and field which should not be stored. I will adds the explanation in next version. And also, I used "storing instruction" and "storing rule" as same meaning. I will correct it. > > Records, this process has instructions that are configured by the > > user, which indicate whether each field should be stored or > > discarded. The field modifier indicates "keep" or "discard", which > > is similar to the instruction of the aggregation process. The field > > modifier specifies how these Information Elements are treated by the > > process. This field modifier is applied to Information Elements > > within Flow Record and IPFIX header, such as "Observation Domain ID" > > and "Export time". This header information MAY be used when IPFIX > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 12] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > datagrams are made of past Flow Records. > > > > When another node retrieves past Flow Records, we can consider > > How does it retrieve them? > Simply, the specified past Flow Records can be retrieved on the basis of time period which is given by user. The retrieving mechanism is out of scope of this document. > > several specifications. One solution is that another node gets a > > specified flat file from a Mediator and decodes that flat file by > > itself. Other solutions are that another node sends out the query > > command to the IPFIX Mediator through XML-RPC, SNMP, or NETCONF, and > > then the IPFIX Mediator exports the specified past Flow Records. > > This function is outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 13] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations > > > > This section describes IPFIX protocol considerations with regard to > > IPFIX Mediator. > > > > 4.1. Export Time Issue > > > > If the Exporting Process writes the "Export Time" of the IPFIX > > message when an IPFIX message leaves, an IPFIX Mediator needs to > > compensate for the delta time Information Elements contained in each > > "the" -> "any" > > > Flow Record. An IPFIX Proxy SHOULD reuse the "Export Time" of > > "SHOULD" -> "MUST" > Yes. I will correct it. > > received IPFIX messages from the Original Exporter. > > > > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management > > > > To comply with the IPFIX protocol the Observation Domain ID value is > > RECOMMENDED to be assigned uniquely per IPFIX Mediator. In addition, > > Observation Domain ID SHOULD be 0 when IPFIX Mediator exports > > aggregated Flow Records and cannot manage the specific Observation > > Domain ID of the Original Exporter. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an > > IPFIX datagram from a transport session to a transport session, IPFIX > > Proxy does not need to overwrite the Observation Domain ID with > > another value. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an IPFIX datagram from > > multiple transport sessions to a single ransport session, IPFIX Proxy > > needs to overwrite the Observation Domain ID. In that case, IPFIX > > Proxy assigns the Observation Domain ID based on received Transport > > Session Information and the original Observation Domain ID. The > > renewed Observation Domain ID SHOULD be managed using the received > > Transport Session Information and original Observation Domain ID. > > This linkage information is available for overwriting the scope field > > of the option template. > > > > 4.3. Template Management > > > > The template ID of a generated template SHOULD be unique on the basis > > "Template". Please be sure to capitalise IPFIX terminology! > Yes. I will correct it. > > of the Observation Domain ID assigned by an IPFIX Mediator. The > > template ID needs to be unique on the basis of IPFIX Mediator when > > the Observation Domain ID is 0. If the IPFIX Mediator overwrites the > > received template ID to relay a received template or modified > > template, the renewed template ID SHOULD be managed using received > > Transport Session Information and received Observation Domain ID. > > This linkage information is available for overwriting scope field of > > an option template and template handling. If IPFIX Mediator receives > > a "template withdraw message", it SHOULD modify this message to > > indicate relevant templates, and send "template withdraw message". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 14] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 4.4. Transport Session Management > > > > Each session of the Collecting Process and Exporting Process should > > operate independently. Even if one session is reset, the status of > > the other session is kept current. However, templates for resetting > > collecting session SHOULD be withdrawn for the exporting session. > > > > 4.5. Option Template Management > > > > IPFIX Mediator MUST check whether the scope field is applicable, if > > received Data Records associated Options templates are exported. If > > an IPFIX Mediator rewrites the Observation Domain ID or template ID, > > these values included in scope fields SHOULD be rewritten before > > exporting. Instead of exporting the Options Template Records and > > associated Data Records, Information Elements exported using the > > Options template Record from the Original Exporter, such as sampling > > rate or sampling method, could be merged in a Flow Record in an IPFIX > > Mediator. In that case, IPFIX Mediator MUST modify the relevant > > Template Record. Several sorts of received statistics Options > > Template Records and associated Data Records could be exported in > > different ways as other templates. In IPFIX Proxy, the Data Record > > associated by statistics Options Template Records can be exported > > after merging its counter. In addition, statistics Options Template > > Records and associated Data Records can be exported by indicating the > > source of the statistics data as a scope field instead of merging the > > counter. This method is described in Section 6. The user policy > > determines whether IPFIX Mediator and the above methods should export > > Option Templates Records and associated Data Records. > > > > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information > > > > Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is > > Surely that's a loss of privacy? It is depends on the role of IPFIX Mediator. If it is IPFIX Firewall or IPFIX Proxy, exporting Exporter IP address becomes to grow the vulnerability. On the other hand, if it is other nodes, such as concentrator, Exporter IP address is important information for traffic analysis, such as traffic engineering. In case of making traffic matrix, Exporter IP address can indicate the ingress router of network domain. > > > useful to identify the Original Exporter. There are various methods > > as follows. An IPFIX Mediator can directly merge Exporter > > Information into Flow Records or use Options Templates described in > > Section 6. If an IPFIX Mediator received fields related to the > > Exporter information, IPFIX Mediator SHOULD NOT rewrite its own > > previous Exporter information. The IPFIX Mediator can append its own > > previous Exporter Information instead of rewriting. In the > > Collecting Process, the order of the Exporter information means the > > Original Exporter and the route of IPFIX Mediator. These methods > > defined by user policy determine whether IPFIX Mediator should report > > that information has been exported > > Some text seems to be missing here? > Oops, I miss the period. I will correct it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 15] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators > > > > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation > > > > An IPFIX Mediator can aggregate Flow Records in the same manner as > > that of IPFIX concentrator and reduce the number of Flow Records > > received by a traffic collector. > > > > The following figure indicates a cascade connection of IPFIX > > Mediators. If a Collector measures a traffic matrix to obtain > > traffic demand, the Collector needs Flow Records of the whole network > > domain, but does not need detailed Flow Records. In the first step, > > a Mediator receives Flow Records from IPFIX Devices and then creates > > "a first level Mediator" > > > aggregated low-level Flow Records. For example, this step is prefix > > mask aggregation. Next, the Mediator receives aggregated Flow > > "Next, a second level Mediator" > Yes. I will correct it. > > Records and aggregates them further. For example, the second step is > > the aggregation of the BGP next-hop address and exporter address. > > After this, the collector receives high-level aggregated Flow Records > > and then stores them. This method enables step-by-step aggregation > > of Flow Records without overloading a single node. > > > > .--------. .--------. > > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | > > |router#1|---->|Mediator|---. > > | | |*1 | | > > '--------' '--------' | .--------. .---------. > > '--->|IPFIX | |Traffic | > > .--------. .--------. .--->|Mediator|---->|Collector| > > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | | |*2 | | | > > |router#2|---->|Mediator|---' '--------' '---------' > > | | |*1 | > > '--------' '--------' > > > > Figure C: Flexible Aggregation with cascading IPFIX Mediators. > > > > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation > > > > When the network is used globally, the distances between PoPs become > > longer, and the maintenance of a dedicated management network is very > > expensive. Therefore, the huge number of Flow Records has burdened > > the management networks of global ISPs. If we place Mediators at > > each PoP, the number of Flow Records exported from each PoP can be > > reduced. Mediators can minimize the number of Flow Records exported > > to the Collector. If the Collector needs detailed information, it > > can retrieve Flow Records from Mediators that store original Flow > > Records. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 16] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > A management network of a global ISP is shown in the following > > figure. The Mediators are located at each PoP of the network, and > > they collect Flow Records from routers in each PoP domain. The > > Mediator reduces the number of Flow Records by aggregating or > > filtering, so this system reduces the load of a management network. > > > > POP#Asia > > .--------. > > .--------. | .---------. > > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | > > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----. > > |router |---'----->|#1 | | > > |#1 |-' '---------' | > > '--------' | > > | > > POP#America | > > .--------. | > > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | '---->|Traffic | > > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > > |router |---'----->|#2 | .---->| | > > |#4 |-' '---------' | '---------' > > '--------' | > > | > > POP#Europe | > > .--------. | > > .--------. | .---------. | > > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | | > > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----' > > |router |---'----->|#3 | > > |#7 |-' '---------' > > '--------' > > > > Figure D: Traffic monitoring architecture in global network. > > > > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records > > > > An IPFIX Mediator duplicates Flow Records to achieve redundant > > storage or utilizes them for several purposes. The pair of > > Collecting Process and Metering Processes is similar to the pair of > > the Observation Point and Metering Process. The Collecting Process > > duplicates Flow records by forwarding them to the multi-Metering > > Process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 17] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Several departments in an ISP want to use the same traffic > > information for each intended purpose. For example, the network > > design department measures the traffic matrix to obtain traffic > > demand, and the customer service division uses traffic information > > for performing accounting services for each customer while the > > network operation center uses traffic information for trouble > > shooting analysis. That case is shown in the following figure. An > > IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records to several Collectors that > > have the appropriate aggregated granularity. In addition, when a NOC > > conducts troubleshooting, past Flow Records from Mediators can be > > retrieved. > > > > Measurement traffic matrix. > > .--------. .---------. > > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector| > > | | | | |#1 | > > '--------' | | '---------' > > | | Using Accounting info. > > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > > |IPFIX | '---->|IPFIX |----' |Traffic | > > |router#2|--------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > > | | .---->| |----. |#2 | > > '--------' | '---------' | '---------' > > | | Using Trouble shooting. > > .--------. | | .---------. > > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector| > > | | |#3 | > > '--------' '---------' > > The bottom left router should be "router#3" > Yes. I will correct it. > > > > Figure E: Duplication of Flow Records for several purposes. > > > > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records > > > > An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record > > "MAY distribute" > Yes. I will correct it. > > content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and > > sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow > > Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. > > It's unclear to me what this means. > Surely, it is too short explanation. For example, if an IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records on the basis of input IF indexes which indicates customer, measuring total traffic volume by each Collector can indicate each customer's accounting information. On careful thought, it is better that this sentence is omitted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 18] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or > > "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > I was confused how to use "we". I mean it is network service provider. The Mediator is preferable. > > the privacy policy should be considered. In that case, IPFIX > > Mediator hides private information about each customer. For example, > > Mediator distributes traffic information based on RD (Route > > Distinguisher), egress IF, peering AS number, or BGP next hop, which > > identify the customer. In the following figure, the IPFIX Mediator > > distributes Flow Records based on RD. The system securely allows > > each customer to access only their own records. > > > > .--------. .---------. > > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector|<===> Customer#A > > | | | | |#1 | > > '--------' | | '---------' > > | RD=100:1 > > | .---------. | > > .--------. '---->|IPFIX |----' .---------. > > |IPFIX | |Mediator | RD=100:2 |Traffic | > > |router#2|--------->| |--------->|Collector|<===> Customer#B > > | | | | |#2 | > > '--------' .---->| |----. '---------' > > | '---------' | > > | RD=100:3 > > .--------. | | .---------. > > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector|<===> Customer#C > > | | |#3 | > > '--------' '---------' > > > > Figure F: Distribution of Flow Records for each customer. > > > > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow > > > > An IPFIX Mediator performs filtering based on Flow Record content. > > If the filter conditions are set depending on the suspicious flow as > > follows, the Collector receives the specified suspicious flow and > > detects an anomalous flow by simply monitoring the traffic volume of > > each suspicious flow. > > > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to "null" > > > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to the SYN > > bit only and the packet counter is only 1. > > This will always happen for TCP flows of 1 or more packets. It might be > suspicious if the count was still 1 after some time. > Yes. > > > > o ICMP Flow Records whose length is too long. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 19] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation > > > > This section describes Option Templates that are used by IPFIX > > Mediators. > > > > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template > > > > Each IPFIX Mediator and final destination Collector needs to know the > > Original Exporter and route of IPFIX Mediators. Therefore, each > > IPFIX Mediator informs the next Collector about previous Exporter > > information, which is the Exporter Information Option Template that > > specified the Original Exporter and the route of the IPFIX Mediator. > > The final destination Collector can recognize them by receiving this > > template. This template is composed of the following Information > > Elements. > > > > o exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > > > o collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > > > o exporterTransportPort > > > > o collectorTransportPort > > > > o collectorTransportProtocol > > > > o observationDomainId > > > > The Observation Domain ID of the Original Exporter or IPFIX Mediator > > is identified by specifying exporter/collector Information Elements, > > such as "collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address", "collectorTransportPort", > > "collectorTransportProtocol", ,"exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address", > > "exporterTransportPort", and "observationDomainId". The set of > > "observationDomainId" and "templateId" or "observationDomainId" might > > be used as a scope field. Not all Information Elements are > > necessary. For example, the exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address is necessary > > to inform the next Collector the Original Exporter which created Flow > > Records. If the IPFIX Mediator receives this template, it SHOULD not > > overwrite each field. The IPFIX Mediator appends its own previous > > Exporter information onto received Data Records specified by the > > Exporter Option Template and sends that information to the Collector. > > In this manner, the route is maintained until the final destination > > Collector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 20] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > > Mediators. Each Mediator informs the next Collector about previous > > Exporter information. > > > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > > > Figure G: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > > > Mediator#1 or Mediator#2 sends a Data Record specified by the > > Exporter Option Template. The Data records are shown in Session#b or > > Session#c, as follows. > > > > Session#b Data Record: > > Field Count = 7 > > Scope Count = 1 > > templateId = XXX > > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 10 > > collectorTransportPort = 20 > > observationDomainId = 10 > > Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? > > P. > Is it preferable using private address? Surely, the destination port number should be 4739. > > > > Session#c Data Record: > > Field Count = 13 > > Scope Count = 1 > > templateId = XXX > > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 10 > > collectorTransportPort = 20 > > observationDomainId = 10 > > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 30 > > collectorTransportPort = 40 > > observationDomainId = 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 21] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field > > > > An IPFIX Mediator needs to send forward a Options Template Records > > and associated Data Records from the Original Exporter. However, > > IPFIX Mediator can not export an original Option Template Records and > > associated Data Records without modification because changing a > > session from an Exporting Process to a Collecting Process causes the > > scope fields to become a useless value. When an IPFIX Mediator > > relays the Options Template Records that included Observation Domain > > ID as a scope field and associated Data Records, an IPFIX Mediator > > uses the Exporter Information Option Template. The Options Template > > Records that were created from an Original Exporter can use the > > entire fields of the Exporter Information Option template as multiple > > scope fields. The Options Template Records that were created from > > anIPFIX Mediator can uses the some fields of the Exporter Information > > Option template as multiple scope fields. An IPFIX Mediator needs to > > modify the associated Data Records according to the modified Options > > Template Record. However, if each node uses another field except for > > the Observation Domain ID as the scope, the scope field should be > > considered on a case-by-case basis. > > > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > > Mediators. Router#1 and Mediator#1 export the Metering Process > > Statistics Option Template. > > > > > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > > > Figure H: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > > > Mediator#2 exports each Option Template and its Data Record with a > > suitable scope. > > > > Session#c Metering Process Statistics Data Records from the Original > > Exporter: > > Field Count = 15 > > Scope Count = 12 > > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 10 > > collectorTransportPort = 20 > > observationDomainId = 10 > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 22] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 30 > > collectorTransportPort = 40 > > observationDomainId = 0 > > exportedMessageTotalCount > > exportedFlowTotalCount > > exportedOctetTotalCount > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 23] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 7. Security Considerations > > > > The IPFIX concentrator uses the IPFIX protocol. Security > > considerations about flow information are described in > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 24] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 8. IANA Considerations > > > > This document has no actions for IANA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 25] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 9. References > > > > 9.1. Normative References > > > > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. > > > > 9.2. Informative References > > > > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation] > > Dressler, F., Sommer, C., and G. Munz, "IPFIX > > Aggregation", draft-dressler-ipfix-aggregation-03.txt > > (work in progress) , June 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture] > > Sadasivan, G., Brownlee, N., Claise, B., and J. Quittek, > > "Architecture for IP Flow Information Export", > > draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-12.txt(work in progress) , > > September 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info] > > Quittek, J., Bryant, S., Claise, B., and J. Meyer, > > "Information Model for IP Flow Information Export", > > draft-ietf-ipfix-info-13.txt(work in progress) , > > June 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] > > Claise, B., "IPFIX Protocol Specification", > > draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-23 (work in progress) , > > October 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework] > > Duffield, N., "A Framework for Packet Selection and > > Reporting", draft-ietf-psamp-framework-10.txt , > > January 2005. > > > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech] > > Zseby, T., Molina, M., Duffield, N., Niccolini, S., and F. > > Raspall, "Sampling and Filtering Techniques for IP Packet > > Selection", draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-07.txt , > > July 2005. > > > > [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. Zander, > > "Requirements for IP Flow Information Export(IPFIX)", > > October 2004. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 26] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Authors' Addresses > > > > Atsushi Kobayashi > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-422-59-3978 > > Email: akoba@nttv6.net > > > > > > Keisuke Ishibashi > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-422-59-3407 > > Email: ishibashi.keisuke@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > > > > Kondoh Tsuyoshi > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-422-59-2419 > > Email: kondoh.tsuyoshi@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > > > > Daisuke Matsubara > > Hitachi, Ltd., Central Reseach Laboratory > > 1-280 Higashi-koigakubo > > Kokubunji-shi, Tokyo 185-8601 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-42-323-1111 > > Email: d-matuba@crl.hitachi.co.jp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 27] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Full Copyright Statement > > > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > > > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > > retain all their rights. > > > > This document and the information contained herein are provided on an > > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS > > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND > > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF > > THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED > > WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > > > > > Intellectual Property > > > > The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any > > Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to > > pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in > > this document or the extent to which any license under such rights > > might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has > > made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information > > on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be > > found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > > > Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any > > assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an > > attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of > > such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this > > specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at > > http://www.ietf.org/ipr. > > > > The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any > > copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary > > rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement > > this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at > > ietf-ipr@ietf.org. > > > > > > Acknowledgment > > > > Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF > > Administrative Support Activity (IASA). > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 28] > > > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Sat Jul 28 15:40:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEs9B-0006DU-Dj; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:40:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEs99-00062L-L5 for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:40:15 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEs91-0005kQ-My for ipfix@ietf.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 15:40:15 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6SJdtab000165; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:39:55 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:39:57 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken In-Reply-To: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Sun, 29 Jul 2007 04:39:56 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 485c16ccf4ca6ef309699ad6279bf354 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Re: Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Thank you for your valuable comments. Please see in-line. Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Wed, 25 Jul 2007 23:39:11 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > Please see my comments inline. > > > > IPFIX Working Group A. Kobayashi > > Internet-Draft K. Ishibashi > > Intended status: Informational T. Kondoh > > Expires: December 25, 2007 NTT PF Lab. > > D. Matsubara > > Hitachi > > June 23, 2007 > > > > > > Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators > > draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00.txt > > > > Status of this Memo > > > > By submitting this Internet-Draft, each author represents that any > > applicable patent or other IPR claims of which he or she is aware > > have been or will be disclosed, and any of which he or she becomes > > aware will be disclosed, in accordance with Section 6 of BCP 79. > > > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > > Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups. Note that > > other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet- > > Drafts. > > > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > > > The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at > > http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt. > > > > The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at > > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. > > > > This Internet-Draft will expire on December 25, 2007. > > > > Copyright Notice > > > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 1] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Abstract > > > > An IPFIX Mediator is an intermediate node between IPFIX devices and > > "devices" -> "Exporting Processes" > > > traffic collectors. This node acts as an IPFIX proxy, IPFIX > > "traffic collectors" -> "IPFIX Collecting Processes". > > "This node" -> "A mediator" > Yes. I will correct them in next version. > > firewall, and IPFIX concentrator. An IPFIX Mediator mediates the > > IPFIX protocol using several functions. That enables the traffic > > monitoring system to become a high-capacity system and accommodate a > > variety of traffic monitoring methods. This document describes each > > function that is provided by IPFIX Mediators and the method of > > handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this > > describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. > > It's unclear what this last line means. > "this" indicates this draft. This document describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator which refer to chapter 5. > > > > > > Table of Contents > > > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 > > 2. Terminology . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > > 3. Internal Components Model . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > > 3.1. Collecting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > > 3.2. Metering Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > > 3.2.1. Selection Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > > 3.2.3. Modification Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > > 3.3. Exporting Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > > 3.4. Storing Process . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.1. Export Time Issue . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.3. Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > > 4.4. Transport Session Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > > 4.5. Option Template Management . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information . . . . . . . . . . . . 15 > > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 16 > > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 17 > > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 18 > > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 19 > > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation . . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template . . . . . . . . . . . 20 > > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 > > 7. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 > > 8. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 > > 9. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > > 9.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > > 9.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > > Intellectual Property and Copyright Statements . . . . . . . . . . 28 > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 2] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 1. Introduction > > > > Several problems regarding traffic monitoring have occurred in > > several networks, as follows. > > Can you cite some references for this? > I can't cite some references now. Until submitting the next version, I will search for some references. > > > > o Scalability of collector on large-scale networks > > > > As the sizes of networks become larger, the number of Flow Records > > becomes greater. Large numbers of Flow Records have been > > burdening management networks and the collecting process. > > Maintaining scalability is difficult as a particular network > > grows. Generally, network operations need to monitor overall > > wide-scale traffic behavior and investigate detailed traffic > > information when traffic incidents happen. Meeting these > > requirements seems to be difficult for a single collector node > > because of large numbers of Flow Records. > > > > o Handling multifaceted network environment > > > > On the other hand, networks such as IPv4, IPv6, and VPN on MPLS > > have recently become more multifaceted. These sorts of Flow > > What do you mean by "multifaceted"? > Simply, I mean that the variety of packets, such as IPv4 and IPv6, are passed thought in the same network. Especially, MPLS network handles the several customer's traffic as VPN traffic, such as pseudo wire or L3VPN. I means that networks are integrating variety of traffic. I will add the explanation in this paragraph. > > Records need to be analyzed separately from a different > > perspective. However, handling them separately without improving > > the capability of the Collector is difficult. > > > > o Exchanging traffic information between different networks > > > > Traffic information is considered to be necessary for ISP network > > providers as well as each customer. To that end, the network > > provider needs to export specified Flow Records while avoiding > > privacy violations. In addition, exchanging traffic information > > between the associated networks could be necessary when traffic > > incidents happen. In that case, the Flow Records should be > > checked according to the service provider's policy before > > exporting. Therefore, Flow Records exported from Exporter > > directly without modification can not be fed each customer or > > "can not be fed *to* each customer" yes. I will correct it in the next version. > > > associated network operators without modification. > > > > IPFIX Mediators enable us to overcome these problems by preprocessing > > Flow Records. By defining IPFIX Mediators, we can take increasing > > advantage of an extensive template format, and handle Flow Records in > > accordance with our preference. This document describes some > > solutions using IPFIX Mediators that solve these problems and > > components that are needed in the internal process. > > > > The IPFIX Mediator, which is located between one or more Exporting > > Processes and one or more Collecting Processes, has a main function > > for handling Flow Records. That function stores original Flow > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 3] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Records and mediates them. In addition, renewed Flow Records are > > It's worth defining what mediation is. I will add the description about Flow Mediation and IPFIX protocol Mediation presented by my slide. > Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? This part is described about Flow Mediation. I means that the "renewed Flow Records" is modified Flow Records or aggregated Flow Records. Modification of Flow Records means that some fields are added and deleted, and whose value are modified. I will adds the description in the next version. > > generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic > > analyzer in accordance with flow content. > > Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise > Specific elements? > Mediator doesn't need to understand all content, as semantic. After decoding by the collecting process, Flow Records are distributed in accordance with specified elements contents, such as input IF indexes or Peering AS. In this case, Mediator doesn't need to understand other field contents. In the distribution of Flow Records, Some fields which should be understood are restricted. > > The internal model of a Mediator is composed of Collecting Processes, > > Metering Processes, and Exporting Processes. IPFIX Mediator acts as > > a Collector by receiving Flow Records, and it acts as an Exporter by > > sending Flow Records. This dual-role architecture enables cascading > > Mediators and building a combination of several solutions. > > > > This document describes a model of a solution scenario by using IPFIX > > Mediator and its key component. > > > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL","SHALL NOT", > > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > > document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 4] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 2. Terminology > > > > The definitions of basic IPFIX and PSAMP terms are identical with > > those in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework], [RFC3917], > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol], [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info], and > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture]. Other than the above terminology, the > > following terminology related to IPFIX Mediator is used in this > > document. Therefore, the terms defined in the IPFIX terminology are > > capitalized in this document. > > > > IPFIX Mediator > > > > An IPFIX Mediator hosts at least one pair of Exporting Process and > > Collecting Process. An IPFIX Mediator may have the Metering > > "at least one Exporting Process and one Collecting Process". > > > Process and Storing Process as optional. An IPFIX Proxy, an IPFIX > > "may optionally have Metering Processes and Storing Processes". > Yes. I will correct them in the next version. > > Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX > > Mediators. > > This last line is unclear. > In next version, I will add the description about what is IPFIX Mediator. I means that IPFIX Mediator is generic name of the several nodes, such as the IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall and IPFIX concentrator. > > > > Original Exporter > > > > An Original Exporter hosts Observation Points where IP packets can > > be observed. > > > > IPFIX Proxy > > > > An IPFIX Proxy acts as a proxy for Original Exporter, which hosts > > "Exporters" > Yes. > > Observation Points. An IPFIX Proxy may receive Flow Records from > > one or multiple Exporting Processes, and send them to one or > > multiple Collecting Processes. An IPFIX Proxy does not send the > > information about an Original Exporter to the Collector to act as > > an Original Exporter. > > This last line is unclear. > IPFIX proxy does not send the the information about an Original Exporter, such as "exporterIPv{4|6}Address" to the Collector. > > > > IPFIX Firewall > > > > An IPFIX Firewall exports the Flow Records to a different network > > domain at the edge of the self-network domain. From the > > Collector's point of view, an IPFIX Firewall acts as an Original > > Exporter, just like an IPFIX Proxy. In addition, an IPFIX > > Firewall reviews whether received Flow Records are passed forward > > to the Collector to hide the network topology or privacy > > information. > > Does it block records, or modify them? eg, does it anonymise them? > I think that above functions are included in the IPFIX Firewall. At least, IPFIX Firewall has one function of above functions, such as filtering, modifying and anonymizing. I will add the description about it in the next version. > > > > Metering Process > > > > The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators can be considered the > > partial Metering Process separated from the Metering Process in > > the Original Exporter. The Metering Process in IPFIX Mediators > > consists of a set of subprocesses that includes the Selection > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 5] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Process, the Aggregation Process and the Modification Process. > > The Metering Process generates the final Flow Records that should > > be exported. > > > > Selection Process > > > > The Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator is similar to that of > > PSAMP Devices, which is described in [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework]. > > However, the Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator differs from > > the following functions. The Selection Process in PSAMP Devices > > has two types of selection functions: Filtering and Sampling. In > > addition, the filtering function has two types of filtering > > methods: field-match filtering and hash-based selection. The > > Selection Process in an IPFIX Mediator has only the field-match > > filtering functions. This filtering function selects Flow Records > > based on Flow Record content. The Selection Process is one of the > > subprocesses in the Metering Process. > > > > Aggregation Process > > > > The Aggregation Process creates aggregated Flow Records from > > inputted Flow Records, in accordance with aggregation rules that > > are described in [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. The > > Aggregation Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering > > Process. > > > > Modification Process > > > > The Modification Process carries out the addition, deletion, and > > modification of the Information Elements included in inputted Flow > > Records. The Modification Process adds Information Elements like > > derived packet properties that canot be extracted in the Original > > Exporter. Information Elements related to derived packet > > properties are described in [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info]. In addition, > > the Modification Process modifies the values of the specific > > Information Element. For example, the modification of values is > > "the values of specific Information Elements" Yes. I will correct this term in the draft. > > > like anonymizing some Information Elements to avoid violating > > privacy. The Modification Process deletes some Information > > Elements included in inputted Flow Records. The Modification > > Process is one of the subprocesses in the Metering Process. > > - and presumably this is a key part of a firewall? Yes. But, the modification process is not limited as the functions of IPFIX firewall. If the Modification Process adds the BGP Next Hop Address into the Flow Records, this node is not implied to the IPFIX Firewall. > > > > Storing Process > > > > The Storing Process selects specified Information Elements > > according to the storing rules, and then stores inputted Flow > > Records in a storage system such as a database or flat-file > > system. Information Elements are specified in storing rules. In > > addition, the Observation Domain ID and Export Time in the header > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 6] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > of IPFIX messages are specified in the storing rules. > > How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? This part is out of scope of this document. As solution, several solution can be considered. In case of our system, other node, such as analyzer, submitted the query that contains the specified time slot as XML, IPFIX Mediator replies this query by replaying the NetFlow packets. > > > > > Distribute Function > > > > The Distribute Function distributes final Flow Records based on > > the Flow content. The final Flow Records are handled by the > > Exporting Process to export them to Collector. Each classified > > Flow Record is exported to each Collector. > > To all collectors, or to a subset? > To a subset. I mean that the classified Flow Records are exported to the specified Collector. > > > > Observation Domain ID > > > > An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and > > Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX > > header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of > > Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does > > not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If > > inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the > > Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. > > I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. > Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the > mediation device. This part need a discussion with IPFIX members. If IPFIX Proxy handles one exporting session and one collecting session, simply IPFIX Proxy doesn't need to change the observation domain values. I think, If IPFIX Proxy handles multiple session on the both sides, IPFIX Proxy needs to assign the new Observation Domain values. > > Transport Session Information > > > > In SCTP, the Transport Session Information is the SCTP > > association. In TCP and UDP, the Transport Session Information > > corresponds to a 5 tuple {exporter IP address, collector IP > > address, exporter transport port, collector transport port, > > transport protocol}. In IPFIX Mediator, the Collecting Process > > manages this information. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 7] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 3. Internal Components Model > > > > The following figure indicates four components (Collecting Process, > > Metering Process, Exporting Process, and Storing Process) within the > > IPFIX Mediator that are referred to in [RFC3917]. The Metering > > Process can have one or multiple subprocesses. These subprocesses > > are the Selection Process, Aggregation Process, and Modification > > Process that can be connected to each other in any sequence defined > > by the user. The Metering Process and Storing Process are options. > > > > > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | IPFIX Mediator | > > | .----------. .---------. | > > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > > | | |-->|sub |->|sub |->|sub |-->| | | > > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | |IPFIX > > --> | | ||#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > > | | | |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > > | | | '-------------------------------' | | | > > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > > | | | .-------. | | | > > | | |->|Storing| | | | > > | | | |Process| | | | > > | | | '-------' | | | > > | '----------' '---------' | > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to > the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too > (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of > the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering > Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. > Good idea. Roughly, I can image following figure. +--------------------------------------------------------------+ | IPFIX Mediator | | .----------. .---------. | | | | .-------------------------------. | | | | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | | | |--->sub |-->sub |->|sub |-->| | | IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | IPFIX --> | |.->|#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> | | || |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | | | || '----|----------|----------|----' | | | | | || | | | | | | | | || .--\/---------\/---------\/--. | | | | | |'---| Storing Process |<--| | | | | |--->| |-->| | | | | | '----------------------------' | | | | | |------------------------------------>| | | | '----------' '---------' | +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > > Figure A: Key components within IPFIX Mediator. > > > > Each process is associated with a common identifier in the IPFIX > > Mediator. This method is similar to PSAMP associations in > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech]. > > > > 3.1. Collecting Process > > > > This process receives Flow Records from the previous Exporter. The > > instance of this process is created according to the IPFIX session. > > This process has functions that are described in > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. The Collecting Process also forwards > > received Flow Records with IPFIX header information and Transport > > Session Information to multiple Metering Processes or Storing > > Processes. In other words, Flow Records can be duplicated by > > forwarding several Metering Processes. In addition, the Collecting > > Or Exporting Processes. > Yes. Flow Records can be duplicated by forwarding several Metering Processes or Exporting Processes. > > Process can directly forward Flow Records to Exporting Process. > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 8] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 3.2. Metering Process > > > > This process generates the renewed Flow Records from inputted Flow > > Records with received IPFIX header information, such as "Export Time" > > and "Observation Domain ID". This process hosts the several > > subprocesses. The processing order of these functions, which could > > be located by user definitions, would lead to different renewed Flow > > Records. > > > > 3.2.1. Selection Process > > > > This process decides whether each Flow Record passes through to the > > next process. Theprocess has a filtering function and selects Flow > > Typo, "Theprocess". Thanks. > > > Records that are matched under given conditions. Prior to receiving > > Flow Records, this process has instruction pattern data that are > > defined by the user, which specifies how the Flow Records are treated > > by this process. If the value of some Information Elements in the > > Flow Record match the instruction pattern, this process selects Flow > > Records with all fields and forwards these Flow Records to the next > > process. For example, this process selects the Flow Records that are > > included in the specified destination IP address. > > > > 3.2.2. Aggregation Process > > As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not > originally key fields? > I think that the aggregate key field does not depend on the original key fields. > > > > This process gathers Flow Records within a given time interval and > > then distinguishes Flow Records that have common properties. If > > values of a given key field are the same, that means these Flow > > Records have common properties. This process merges Flow Records > > that have a common property and creates an aggregated Flow Record. > > Therefore, for example, aggregated Flow Records have an aggregation > > counter that indicates the number of packets. These functions are > > defined in accordance with the IPFIX aggregation rule in > > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation]. > > > > The process has instructions that are user defined prior to receiving > > Flow Records. The process indicates the Information Elements that > > should become aggregated flow keys and other Information Elements > > that should be kept or discarded. In addition, these instruction > > rules include Information Elements that should be added to aggregated > > Flow Records. The aggregated Flow Records may need to complement > > information that is discarded during the aggregation process. They > > help the Collector to analyze aggregated Flow Records. For example, > > these Information Elements correspond to "averageActiveTime", > > "synCount", and "flowCount" elements, as follows. > > > > o averageActiveTime > > > > This Information Element indicates average time in milliseconds of > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 9] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > difference between flow start time and end time of each flow > > included in the aggregated flow. This Information Element is > > created from the flow time stamp Information Elements. There are > > "flowStartSeconds", "flowEndSeconds", "flowStartMilliSeconds", > > "flowEndMilliSeconds", "flowStartSysUpTime", and > > "flowEndSysUpTime". Moreover, "minimumActiveTime" and > > "maxmumActiveTime" might be considered in addition to the element. > > > > o synCount > > > > This Information Elements the number of Flow Records that have > > "tcpControlBits" which the SYN bit sets to 1 in an aggregated > > flow. Using this element, we can determine the number of SYN > > packets throughout the network. Moreover, "ackCount", "finCount", > > "pshCount", "urgCount", and "rstCount" might be considered in > > addition to this element. > > > > o flowCount > > > > This Information Element is the number of Flow Records included in > > the aggregated flow. > > > > 3.2.3. Modification Process > > > > This process modifies the received Flow Records. This process can > > add the new Information Elements, delete included Information > > Elements, or modify the value of included Information Elements, as > > follows. If this process modify the original template, it SHOULD > > revise the received "flowKeyIndicator". > > > > Addition of new Information Element > > > > This function adds specified Information Elements into the > > inputted Flow Records. The values of Information Elements are > > extracted by searching some database based on the inputted content > > of Flow Records. The added Information Elements and used > > Information Elements are configured according to instructions by > > the user to obtain the value. The method to obtain the value from > > some Information Elements is outside the scope of this document. > > > > The IPFIX Mediator instead of the Original Exporter adds a derived > > packet property parameter, which is useful for the traffic > > monitoring technique. Doing that can compensate for the inability > > of some Exporters to add a derived packet property parameter. > > Hereby, the Collector does not need to recognize the difference > > between implementations of routers from several vendors. For > > example, the addition of "bgpNextHop{IPv4|IPv6}Address" and > > "bgpCommunity" Information Elements is useful for making a traffic > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 10] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > matrix that covers the whole network domain. "bgpNextHop{IPv4| > > IPv6}Address" can indicate the egress router of some network > > domain. In addition, "bgpCommunity" can indicate the same group > > of destination or source IP addresses. This value can be given by > > looking for the BGP route database based on the destination or > > source IP address. In addition, "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher", > > which can not be extracted from the core router in MPLS networks, > > indicates the customer's identification. We can monitor the > > traffic behavior per customer by adding > > "mplsVpnRouteDistinguisher" to the Flow Records. This value can > > be given by looking for the BGP route database based on the > > "mplsTopLabelStackSection" and "mplsTopLabel{IPv4|IPv6}Address". > > > > Deletion of Information Element > > > > This function deletes specified Information Elements according to > > the instructions that are configured by the user, which indicate > > whether an Information Element should be removed. Hiding network > > topology information and private information by using this > > function is possible. > > > > In the case of exchanging Flow Records with different network > > domains or customers, this function can avoid making a > > vulnerability by deleting unnecessary Information Elements. By > > deleting unnecessary Information Elements, this function can hide > > the network topology and another customer's information. In > > particular, "ipNextHopIP{v4|v6}Address", "bgpNextHopIP{v4| > > v6}Address", and "bgp{Next|Prev}AdjacentAsNumber" correspond to > > network topology information. In addition, MPLS-related > > Information Elements, such as "mplsLabelStackSection", that are > > useless for customers might be removed in the case of feeding the > > Flow Records to VPN customers. > > > > Modification of the value of Information Element > > > > This function modifies the value of specified Information Elements > > according to instructions configured by the user. > > > > For example, this function enables us to overwrite private > > information with zeros or the maximum value. In particular, IP > > address and port number is sensitive private information. In the > > case of monitoring traffic trends and traffic engineering, these > > Information Elements are not essential factors for those purposes. > > In that case, modification anonymizes the relevant Information > > Elements to prevent a violation of privacy. If modification can > > anonymize some Information Elements, it might need to report which > > Information Elements are anonymized. For example, > > "anonymizationIndicator" indicates which Information Elements have > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 11] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > been anonymized as a bitmap, just like the "flowKeyIndicator". > > The anonymization method is outside the scope of this document. > > Why would we not just modify the template and remove these Information > Elements? This point has been already discussed in ML. > > > > 3.3. Exporting Process > > > > This process forwards Flow Records to the next Collector. These > > processes manage the reporting template and make an IPFIX datagram. > > > > In addition, this process has the Distribution Function as an option. > > If this function is enabled, this process distributes Flow Records > > based on Flow content and then exports each classified Flow Record to > > each Collector. > > > > The Exporting Process distributes Flow Records on the basis of the > > peering AS, as shown in the following figure. Each classified Flow > > Peer AS in the incoming data, or on the Exporting side? Is BGP required? > > Surely this would/should be user configurable? I means this is example. Which field is selected in order to distribute Flow Records should be configurable. I will modify next version. It is too short description > > Record is exported to a dedicated Collector on the basis of the > > Peering AS. > > > > +-------------------------------------------+ > > | IPFIX Mediator .----------. | > > | |Exporting | | > > | |Process | | > > | .----------. .---------. | | | PeerAS#100 > > Flow -->|Collecting|->|Metering |----->/------------> Collector#A > > Records |Process | |Process | | | | | PeerAS#200 > > | '----------' '---------' | /------------> Collector#B > > | | | | | PeerAS#300 > > | | /------------> Collector#C > > | | | | | PeerAS#400 > > | | /------------> Collector#D > > | | | | > > | '----------' | > > +-------------------------------------------+ > > > > Figure B: Exporting each classified Flow Record to dedicated Collector. > > > > 3.4. Storing Process > > > > This process selects specified Information Elements using the storing > > instruction from the inputted Flow Records. Prior to receiving Flow > > What is the "storing instruction" ? > The Flow Records which are wanted to store by user might not be equal to received Flow Records. The meaningless fields could be discarded by user. The storing instruction means the configured information by user. It indicates fields which should be stored and field which should not be stored. I will adds the explanation in next version. And also, I used "storing instruction" and "storing rule" as same meaning. I will correct it. > > Records, this process has instructions that are configured by the > > user, which indicate whether each field should be stored or > > discarded. The field modifier indicates "keep" or "discard", which > > is similar to the instruction of the aggregation process. The field > > modifier specifies how these Information Elements are treated by the > > process. This field modifier is applied to Information Elements > > within Flow Record and IPFIX header, such as "Observation Domain ID" > > and "Export time". This header information MAY be used when IPFIX > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 12] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > datagrams are made of past Flow Records. > > > > When another node retrieves past Flow Records, we can consider > > How does it retrieve them? > Simply, the specified past Flow Records can be retrieved on the basis of time period which is given by user. The retrieving mechanism is out of scope of this document. > > several specifications. One solution is that another node gets a > > specified flat file from a Mediator and decodes that flat file by > > itself. Other solutions are that another node sends out the query > > command to the IPFIX Mediator through XML-RPC, SNMP, or NETCONF, and > > then the IPFIX Mediator exports the specified past Flow Records. > > This function is outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 13] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 4. IPFIX Protocol Considerations > > > > This section describes IPFIX protocol considerations with regard to > > IPFIX Mediator. > > > > 4.1. Export Time Issue > > > > If the Exporting Process writes the "Export Time" of the IPFIX > > message when an IPFIX message leaves, an IPFIX Mediator needs to > > compensate for the delta time Information Elements contained in each > > "the" -> "any" > > > Flow Record. An IPFIX Proxy SHOULD reuse the "Export Time" of > > "SHOULD" -> "MUST" > Yes. I will correct it. > > received IPFIX messages from the Original Exporter. > > > > 4.2. Observation Domain ID Management > > > > To comply with the IPFIX protocol the Observation Domain ID value is > > RECOMMENDED to be assigned uniquely per IPFIX Mediator. In addition, > > Observation Domain ID SHOULD be 0 when IPFIX Mediator exports > > aggregated Flow Records and cannot manage the specific Observation > > Domain ID of the Original Exporter. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an > > IPFIX datagram from a transport session to a transport session, IPFIX > > Proxy does not need to overwrite the Observation Domain ID with > > another value. If an IPFIX Proxy relays an IPFIX datagram from > > multiple transport sessions to a single ransport session, IPFIX Proxy > > needs to overwrite the Observation Domain ID. In that case, IPFIX > > Proxy assigns the Observation Domain ID based on received Transport > > Session Information and the original Observation Domain ID. The > > renewed Observation Domain ID SHOULD be managed using the received > > Transport Session Information and original Observation Domain ID. > > This linkage information is available for overwriting the scope field > > of the option template. > > > > 4.3. Template Management > > > > The template ID of a generated template SHOULD be unique on the basis > > "Template". Please be sure to capitalise IPFIX terminology! > Yes. I will correct it. > > of the Observation Domain ID assigned by an IPFIX Mediator. The > > template ID needs to be unique on the basis of IPFIX Mediator when > > the Observation Domain ID is 0. If the IPFIX Mediator overwrites the > > received template ID to relay a received template or modified > > template, the renewed template ID SHOULD be managed using received > > Transport Session Information and received Observation Domain ID. > > This linkage information is available for overwriting scope field of > > an option template and template handling. If IPFIX Mediator receives > > a "template withdraw message", it SHOULD modify this message to > > indicate relevant templates, and send "template withdraw message". > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 14] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 4.4. Transport Session Management > > > > Each session of the Collecting Process and Exporting Process should > > operate independently. Even if one session is reset, the status of > > the other session is kept current. However, templates for resetting > > collecting session SHOULD be withdrawn for the exporting session. > > > > 4.5. Option Template Management > > > > IPFIX Mediator MUST check whether the scope field is applicable, if > > received Data Records associated Options templates are exported. If > > an IPFIX Mediator rewrites the Observation Domain ID or template ID, > > these values included in scope fields SHOULD be rewritten before > > exporting. Instead of exporting the Options Template Records and > > associated Data Records, Information Elements exported using the > > Options template Record from the Original Exporter, such as sampling > > rate or sampling method, could be merged in a Flow Record in an IPFIX > > Mediator. In that case, IPFIX Mediator MUST modify the relevant > > Template Record. Several sorts of received statistics Options > > Template Records and associated Data Records could be exported in > > different ways as other templates. In IPFIX Proxy, the Data Record > > associated by statistics Options Template Records can be exported > > after merging its counter. In addition, statistics Options Template > > Records and associated Data Records can be exported by indicating the > > source of the statistics data as a scope field instead of merging the > > counter. This method is described in Section 6. The user policy > > determines whether IPFIX Mediator and the above methods should export > > Option Templates Records and associated Data Records. > > > > 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information > > > > Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is > > Surely that's a loss of privacy? It is depends on the role of IPFIX Mediator. If it is IPFIX Firewall or IPFIX Proxy, exporting Exporter IP address becomes to grow the vulnerability. On the other hand, if it is other nodes, such as concentrator, Exporter IP address is important information for traffic analysis, such as traffic engineering. In case of making traffic matrix, Exporter IP address can indicate the ingress router of network domain. > > > useful to identify the Original Exporter. There are various methods > > as follows. An IPFIX Mediator can directly merge Exporter > > Information into Flow Records or use Options Templates described in > > Section 6. If an IPFIX Mediator received fields related to the > > Exporter information, IPFIX Mediator SHOULD NOT rewrite its own > > previous Exporter information. The IPFIX Mediator can append its own > > previous Exporter Information instead of rewriting. In the > > Collecting Process, the order of the Exporter information means the > > Original Exporter and the route of IPFIX Mediator. These methods > > defined by user policy determine whether IPFIX Mediator should report > > that information has been exported > > Some text seems to be missing here? > Oops, I miss the period. I will correct it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 15] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 5. Solution Scenarios with IPFIX Mediators > > > > 5.1. Flexible Aggregation > > > > An IPFIX Mediator can aggregate Flow Records in the same manner as > > that of IPFIX concentrator and reduce the number of Flow Records > > received by a traffic collector. > > > > The following figure indicates a cascade connection of IPFIX > > Mediators. If a Collector measures a traffic matrix to obtain > > traffic demand, the Collector needs Flow Records of the whole network > > domain, but does not need detailed Flow Records. In the first step, > > a Mediator receives Flow Records from IPFIX Devices and then creates > > "a first level Mediator" > > > aggregated low-level Flow Records. For example, this step is prefix > > mask aggregation. Next, the Mediator receives aggregated Flow > > "Next, a second level Mediator" > Yes. I will correct it. > > Records and aggregates them further. For example, the second step is > > the aggregation of the BGP next-hop address and exporter address. > > After this, the collector receives high-level aggregated Flow Records > > and then stores them. This method enables step-by-step aggregation > > of Flow Records without overloading a single node. > > > > .--------. .--------. > > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | > > |router#1|---->|Mediator|---. > > | | |*1 | | > > '--------' '--------' | .--------. .---------. > > '--->|IPFIX | |Traffic | > > .--------. .--------. .--->|Mediator|---->|Collector| > > |IPFIX | |IPFIX | | |*2 | | | > > |router#2|---->|Mediator|---' '--------' '---------' > > | | |*1 | > > '--------' '--------' > > > > Figure C: Flexible Aggregation with cascading IPFIX Mediators. > > > > 5.2. Distributed Aggregation > > > > When the network is used globally, the distances between PoPs become > > longer, and the maintenance of a dedicated management network is very > > expensive. Therefore, the huge number of Flow Records has burdened > > the management networks of global ISPs. If we place Mediators at > > each PoP, the number of Flow Records exported from each PoP can be > > reduced. Mediators can minimize the number of Flow Records exported > > to the Collector. If the Collector needs detailed information, it > > can retrieve Flow Records from Mediators that store original Flow > > Records. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 16] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > A management network of a global ISP is shown in the following > > figure. The Mediators are located at each PoP of the network, and > > they collect Flow Records from routers in each PoP domain. The > > Mediator reduces the number of Flow Records by aggregating or > > filtering, so this system reduces the load of a management network. > > > > POP#Asia > > .--------. > > .--------. | .---------. > > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | > > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----. > > |router |---'----->|#1 | | > > |#1 |-' '---------' | > > '--------' | > > | > > POP#America | > > .--------. | > > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | '---->|Traffic | > > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > > |router |---'----->|#2 | .---->| | > > |#4 |-' '---------' | '---------' > > '--------' | > > | > > POP#Europe | > > .--------. | > > .--------. | .---------. | > > .--------. | |----->|IPFIX | | > > |IPFIX | |------->|Mediator |----' > > |router |---'----->|#3 | > > |#7 |-' '---------' > > '--------' > > > > Figure D: Traffic monitoring architecture in global network. > > > > 5.3. Duplication of Flow Records > > > > An IPFIX Mediator duplicates Flow Records to achieve redundant > > storage or utilizes them for several purposes. The pair of > > Collecting Process and Metering Processes is similar to the pair of > > the Observation Point and Metering Process. The Collecting Process > > duplicates Flow records by forwarding them to the multi-Metering > > Process. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 17] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Several departments in an ISP want to use the same traffic > > information for each intended purpose. For example, the network > > design department measures the traffic matrix to obtain traffic > > demand, and the customer service division uses traffic information > > for performing accounting services for each customer while the > > network operation center uses traffic information for trouble > > shooting analysis. That case is shown in the following figure. An > > IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records to several Collectors that > > have the appropriate aggregated granularity. In addition, when a NOC > > conducts troubleshooting, past Flow Records from Mediators can be > > retrieved. > > > > Measurement traffic matrix. > > .--------. .---------. > > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector| > > | | | | |#1 | > > '--------' | | '---------' > > | | Using Accounting info. > > .--------. | .---------. | .---------. > > |IPFIX | '---->|IPFIX |----' |Traffic | > > |router#2|--------->|Mediator |--------->|Collector| > > | | .---->| |----. |#2 | > > '--------' | '---------' | '---------' > > | | Using Trouble shooting. > > .--------. | | .---------. > > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector| > > | | |#3 | > > '--------' '---------' > > The bottom left router should be "router#3" > Yes. I will correct it. > > > > Figure E: Duplication of Flow Records for several purposes. > > > > 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records > > > > An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record > > "MAY distribute" > Yes. I will correct it. > > content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and > > sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow > > Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. > > It's unclear to me what this means. > Surely, it is too short explanation. For example, if an IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records on the basis of input IF indexes which indicates customer, measuring total traffic volume by each Collector can indicate each customer's accounting information. On careful thought, it is better that this sentence is omitted. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 18] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or > > "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > I was confused how to use "we". I mean it is network service provider. The Mediator is preferable. > > the privacy policy should be considered. In that case, IPFIX > > Mediator hides private information about each customer. For example, > > Mediator distributes traffic information based on RD (Route > > Distinguisher), egress IF, peering AS number, or BGP next hop, which > > identify the customer. In the following figure, the IPFIX Mediator > > distributes Flow Records based on RD. The system securely allows > > each customer to access only their own records. > > > > .--------. .---------. > > |IPFIX | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----. .---->|Collector|<===> Customer#A > > | | | | |#1 | > > '--------' | | '---------' > > | RD=100:1 > > | .---------. | > > .--------. '---->|IPFIX |----' .---------. > > |IPFIX | |Mediator | RD=100:2 |Traffic | > > |router#2|--------->| |--------->|Collector|<===> Customer#B > > | | | | |#2 | > > '--------' .---->| |----. '---------' > > | '---------' | > > | RD=100:3 > > .--------. | | .---------. > > |IPFIX | | | |Traffic | > > |router#1|----' '---->|Collector|<===> Customer#C > > | | |#3 | > > '--------' '---------' > > > > Figure F: Distribution of Flow Records for each customer. > > > > 5.5. Extraction of Suspicious Flow > > > > An IPFIX Mediator performs filtering based on Flow Record content. > > If the filter conditions are set depending on the suspicious flow as > > follows, the Collector receives the specified suspicious flow and > > detects an anomalous flow by simply monitoring the traffic volume of > > each suspicious flow. > > > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to "null" > > > > o TCP Flow Records whose "tcpControlBits" value is set to the SYN > > bit only and the packet counter is only 1. > > This will always happen for TCP flows of 1 or more packets. It might be > suspicious if the count was still 1 after some time. > Yes. > > > > o ICMP Flow Records whose length is too long. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 19] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 6. Mediator Option Template Presentation > > > > This section describes Option Templates that are used by IPFIX > > Mediators. > > > > 6.1. Exporter Information Option Template > > > > Each IPFIX Mediator and final destination Collector needs to know the > > Original Exporter and route of IPFIX Mediators. Therefore, each > > IPFIX Mediator informs the next Collector about previous Exporter > > information, which is the Exporter Information Option Template that > > specified the Original Exporter and the route of the IPFIX Mediator. > > The final destination Collector can recognize them by receiving this > > template. This template is composed of the following Information > > Elements. > > > > o exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > > > o collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address > > > > o exporterTransportPort > > > > o collectorTransportPort > > > > o collectorTransportProtocol > > > > o observationDomainId > > > > The Observation Domain ID of the Original Exporter or IPFIX Mediator > > is identified by specifying exporter/collector Information Elements, > > such as "collector{IPv4|IPv6}Address", "collectorTransportPort", > > "collectorTransportProtocol", ,"exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address", > > "exporterTransportPort", and "observationDomainId". The set of > > "observationDomainId" and "templateId" or "observationDomainId" might > > be used as a scope field. Not all Information Elements are > > necessary. For example, the exporter{IPv4|IPv6}Address is necessary > > to inform the next Collector the Original Exporter which created Flow > > Records. If the IPFIX Mediator receives this template, it SHOULD not > > overwrite each field. The IPFIX Mediator appends its own previous > > Exporter information onto received Data Records specified by the > > Exporter Option Template and sends that information to the Collector. > > In this manner, the route is maintained until the final destination > > Collector. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 20] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > > Mediators. Each Mediator informs the next Collector about previous > > Exporter information. > > > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > > > Figure G: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > > > Mediator#1 or Mediator#2 sends a Data Record specified by the > > Exporter Option Template. The Data records are shown in Session#b or > > Session#c, as follows. > > > > Session#b Data Record: > > Field Count = 7 > > Scope Count = 1 > > templateId = XXX > > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 10 > > collectorTransportPort = 20 > > observationDomainId = 10 > > Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? > > P. > Is it preferable using private address? Surely, the destination port number should be 4739. > > > > Session#c Data Record: > > Field Count = 13 > > Scope Count = 1 > > templateId = XXX > > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 10 > > collectorTransportPort = 20 > > observationDomainId = 10 > > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 30 > > collectorTransportPort = 40 > > observationDomainId = 0 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 21] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 6.2. Usage of Scope Field > > > > An IPFIX Mediator needs to send forward a Options Template Records > > and associated Data Records from the Original Exporter. However, > > IPFIX Mediator can not export an original Option Template Records and > > associated Data Records without modification because changing a > > session from an Exporting Process to a Collecting Process causes the > > scope fields to become a useless value. When an IPFIX Mediator > > relays the Options Template Records that included Observation Domain > > ID as a scope field and associated Data Records, an IPFIX Mediator > > uses the Exporter Information Option Template. The Options Template > > Records that were created from an Original Exporter can use the > > entire fields of the Exporter Information Option template as multiple > > scope fields. The Options Template Records that were created from > > anIPFIX Mediator can uses the some fields of the Exporter Information > > Option template as multiple scope fields. An IPFIX Mediator needs to > > modify the associated Data Records according to the modified Options > > Template Record. However, if each node uses another field except for > > the Observation Domain ID as the scope, the scope field should be > > considered on a case-by-case basis. > > > > The following example describes the cascade connection of IPFIX > > Mediators. Router#1 and Mediator#1 export the Metering Process > > Statistics Option Template. > > > > > > Session#a Session#b Session#c > > Router --------> Mediator#1 --------> Mediator#2 -------->Collector > > IP:1.1.1.1 IP:2.2.2.2 IP:3.3.3.3 > > SrcPort:10 DstPort:20 DstPort:40 > > ODID:10 SrcPort:30 SrcPort:50 > > ODID:0 ODID:0 > > > > Figure H: Cascade connection of IPFIX Mediators. > > > > Mediator#2 exports each Option Template and its Data Record with a > > suitable scope. > > > > Session#c Metering Process Statistics Data Records from the Original > > Exporter: > > Field Count = 15 > > Scope Count = 12 > > exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > > collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 10 > > collectorTransportPort = 20 > > observationDomainId = 10 > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 22] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > exporterIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > > collectorIPv4Address = 3.3.3.3 > > collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > > exporterTransportPort = 30 > > collectorTransportPort = 40 > > observationDomainId = 0 > > exportedMessageTotalCount > > exportedFlowTotalCount > > exportedOctetTotalCount > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 23] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 7. Security Considerations > > > > The IPFIX concentrator uses the IPFIX protocol. Security > > considerations about flow information are described in > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 24] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 8. IANA Considerations > > > > This document has no actions for IANA. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 25] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > 9. References > > > > 9.1. Normative References > > > > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, March 1997. > > > > 9.2. Informative References > > > > [I-D.dressler-ipfix-aggregation] > > Dressler, F., Sommer, C., and G. Munz, "IPFIX > > Aggregation", draft-dressler-ipfix-aggregation-03.txt > > (work in progress) , June 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-architecture] > > Sadasivan, G., Brownlee, N., Claise, B., and J. Quittek, > > "Architecture for IP Flow Information Export", > > draft-ietf-ipfix-architecture-12.txt(work in progress) , > > September 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-info] > > Quittek, J., Bryant, S., Claise, B., and J. Meyer, > > "Information Model for IP Flow Information Export", > > draft-ietf-ipfix-info-13.txt(work in progress) , > > June 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-ipfix-protocol] > > Claise, B., "IPFIX Protocol Specification", > > draft-ietf-ipfix-protocol-23 (work in progress) , > > October 2006. > > > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-framework] > > Duffield, N., "A Framework for Packet Selection and > > Reporting", draft-ietf-psamp-framework-10.txt , > > January 2005. > > > > [I-D.ietf-psamp-sample-tech] > > Zseby, T., Molina, M., Duffield, N., Niccolini, S., and F. > > Raspall, "Sampling and Filtering Techniques for IP Packet > > Selection", draft-ietf-psamp-sample-tech-07.txt , > > July 2005. > > > > [RFC3917] Quittek, J., Zseby, T., Claise, B., and S. Zander, > > "Requirements for IP Flow Information Export(IPFIX)", > > October 2004. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 26] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Authors' Addresses > > > > Atsushi Kobayashi > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-422-59-3978 > > Email: akoba@nttv6.net > > > > > > Keisuke Ishibashi > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-422-59-3407 > > Email: ishibashi.keisuke@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > > > > Kondoh Tsuyoshi > > NTT Information Sharing Platform Laboratories > > 3-9-11 Midori-cho > > Musashino-shi, Tokyo 180-8585 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-422-59-2419 > > Email: kondoh.tsuyoshi@lab.ntt.co.jp > > > > > > Daisuke Matsubara > > Hitachi, Ltd., Central Reseach Laboratory > > 1-280 Higashi-koigakubo > > Kokubunji-shi, Tokyo 185-8601 > > Japan > > > > Phone: +81-42-323-1111 > > Email: d-matuba@crl.hitachi.co.jp > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 27] > > > > Internet-Draft Reference Model for IPFIX Mediators June 2007 > > > > > > Full Copyright Statement > > > > Copyright (C) The IETF Trust (2007). > > > > This document is subject to the rights, licenses and restrictions > > contained in BCP 78, and except as set forth therein, the authors > > retain all their rights. > > > > This document and the information contained herein are provided on an > > "AS IS" basis and THE CONTRIBUTOR, THE ORGANIZATION HE/SHE REPRESENTS > > OR IS SPONSORED BY (IF ANY), THE INTERNET SOCIETY, THE IETF TRUST AND > > THE INTERNET ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS > > OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO ANY WARRANTY THAT THE USE OF > > THE INFORMATION HEREIN WILL NOT INFRINGE ANY RIGHTS OR ANY IMPLIED > > WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY OR FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. > > > > > > Intellectual Property > > > > The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any > > Intellectual Property Rights or other rights that might be claimed to > > pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in > > this document or the extent to which any license under such rights > > might or might not be available; nor does it represent that it has > > made any independent effort to identify any such rights. Information > > on the procedures with respect to rights in RFC documents can be > > found in BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > > > Copies of IPR disclosures made to the IETF Secretariat and any > > assurances of licenses to be made available, or the result of an > > attempt made to obtain a general license or permission for the use of > > such proprietary rights by implementers or users of this > > specification can be obtained from the IETF on-line IPR repository at > > http://www.ietf.org/ipr. > > > > The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any > > copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary > > rights that may cover technology that may be required to implement > > this standard. Please address the information to the IETF at > > ietf-ipr@ietf.org. > > > > > > Acknowledgment > > > > Funding for the RFC Editor function is provided by the IETF > > Administrative Support Activity (IASA). > > > > > > > > > > > > Kobayashi, et al. Expires December 25, 2007 [Page 28] > > > > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From hagathiumsatanusbut@athiumsatanus.net Sat Jul 28 17:44:21 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEu5F-0007NC-Ou; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:44:21 -0400 Received: from chello089078187082.chello.pl ([89.78.187.82]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IEu5F-0008VR-7b; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 17:44:21 -0400 Received: from [89.78.187.82] by mail-incoming2.gate.com; Sat, 28 Jul 2007 21:44:35 -0100 Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2007 21:44:35 -0100 From: "Stewart Sykes" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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We are endorsed by VeriSign and VISA then we ensure secure & dependable purchasing. ------------71254096ECF8B6-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jul 29 06:34:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IF66X-0006Ym-BI; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:34:29 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IF66V-0006Yg-Ns for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:34:27 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IF66U-0005Iu-9d for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:34:27 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Jul 2007 03:34:24 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPcJrEaQ/uCK/2dsb2JhbAA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,195,1183359600"; d="scan'208"; a="508123596:sNHT34757816" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6TAYNQg003629; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:34:23 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6TAYMkt009167; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:34:23 GMT Received: from [10.61.65.33] (ams3-vpn-dhcp289.cisco.com [10.61.65.33]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24484; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:34:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46AC6D38.4010806@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:34:32 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=11090; t=1185705263; x=1186569263; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=jFHe1eEqQJdjSGYtAnV3Vt6tpBpdUEc8Z3FFQm9QybA=; b=qq7SZLETXbeuURCEYlCz33JJiF263ZibdGO3kFzKpCq16UqK6oJc1Bxf+8314IU71BZyOgSk 8wv6MjyvUWUApAWxbJQ5GBRdz4ltAoeGVuIa43q3iHyzFmtohc5M4oVj; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7c1a129dc3801d79d40c5ca8dee767eb Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Re: Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Here with a few replies to some of your points. I was happy with your replies to all the other points, so I snipped out all that text for brevity. >>> handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this >>> describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. >> >> It's unclear what this last line means. > > "this" indicates this draft. > This document describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator > which refer to chapter 5. "Solution" to what? First there would have to be a problem to solve. >> Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? > > This part is described about Flow Mediation. > > I means that the "renewed Flow Records" is modified Flow Records or > aggregated Flow Records. > > Modification of Flow Records means that some fields are added and deleted, > and whose value are modified. That's two different kinds of modification: 1. changing the value of the fields 2. changing the template and record structure (adding / removing fields) It would be good to make this clear - and indicate when each would be done. >>> generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic >>> analyzer in accordance with flow content. >> >> Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise >> Specific elements? > > Mediator doesn't need to understand all content, as semantic. After decoding > by the collecting process, Flow Records are distributed in accordance > with specified elements contents, such as input IF indexes or Peering AS. If the mediator doesn't understand the content, then it cannot do this. Or at least, not do it very well. eg, if it sees that a field is one octet, it may choose to distribute to four collectors as follows: 0x00 - 0x3F -> Collector 1 0x40 - 0x7F -> Collector 2 0x80 - 0xBF -> Collector 3 0xC0 - 0xFF -> Collector 4 However, the octet may only contain 6 bits of information (ie, 0x00 - 0x3F) so all the traffic will go to Collector 1. Or the field may be a counter - so traffic will be divided across the collectors, depending how much was counted. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense (except perhaps, a special collector to analyse extra-small or extra-large flows). > In this case, Mediator doesn't need to understand other field contents. > In the distribution of Flow Records, Some fields which should be understood > are restricted. You mean, distribution can only be made according to some well understood fields? >>> Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX >>> Mediators. >> >> This last line is unclear. > > In next version, I will add the description about what is IPFIX Mediator. > I means that IPFIX Mediator is generic name of the several nodes, such as > the IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall and IPFIX concentrator. In another mail, I had suggested that since this draft is already quite complex, it might be better to divide into seperate drafts covering different functions. eg, from the titles above, you could have three drafts describing proxy, firewall and concentrator. You would still be able to made a mediator product which complies with all three of these drafts together. >> How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? > > This part is out of scope of this document. > As solution, several solution can be considered. > > In case of our system, other node, such as analyzer, submitted the query > that contains the specified time slot as XML, IPFIX Mediator replies this > query by replaying the NetFlow packets. OK. I think it would be good to add a small note indicating that data may be retrieved from the Storing Process in different ways which are outside the scope of the current work. >>> Observation Domain ID >>> >>> An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and >>> Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX >>> header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of >>> Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does >>> not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If >>> inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the >>> Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. >> I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. >> Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the >> mediation device. > > This part need a discussion with IPFIX members. > If IPFIX Proxy handles one exporting session and one collecting session, > simply IPFIX Proxy doesn't need to change the observation domain values. I agree, because it's a transparent device, ie it's invisible to the collector. > I think, If IPFIX Proxy handles multiple session on the both sides, > IPFIX Proxy needs to assign the new Observation Domain values. I think it would be possible for a device to receive information from other devices, process the information and re-report the information as if it had been observed locally. Viewed another way, we could have three IPFIX devices (A, B, C) reporting to a fourth device (D) as so: +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | device A | | device B | | device C | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | | | +---------------+---------------+ | +----------+ | device D | +----------+ I believe device D could report a new observation domain as so: +----------------------------------------------+ | | | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | | | device A | | device B | | device C | | | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | | | | device D | +----------------------------------------------+ In this case, device D would use its own Observation Domain IDs and not have to report OD ID 0. >> I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to >> the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too >> (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of >> the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering >> Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. >> > > Good idea. Roughly, I can image following figure. > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > | IPFIX Mediator | > | .----------. .---------. | > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > | | |--->sub |-->sub |->|sub |-->| | | > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | IPFIX > --> | |.->|#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > | | || |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > | | || '----|----------|----------|----' | | | > | | || | | | | | | > | | || .--\/---------\/---------\/--. | | | > | | |'---| Storing Process |<--| | | > | | |--->| |-->| | | > | | | '----------------------------' | | | > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > | '----------' '---------' | > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind. >>> 3.2.2. Aggregation Process >> >> As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not >> originally key fields? > > I think that the aggregate key field does not depend on the original key > fields. For sure it's possible - even if statistically it might not make any sense. >>> 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information >>> >>> Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is >> Surely that's a loss of privacy? > > It is depends on the role of IPFIX Mediator. > If it is IPFIX Firewall or IPFIX Proxy, exporting Exporter IP address > becomes to grow the vulnerability. > On the other hand, if it is other nodes, such as concentrator, Exporter > IP address is important information for traffic analysis, such as traffic > engineering. > > In case of making traffic matrix, Exporter IP address can indicate the > ingress router of network domain. Very true. So it's worth indicating this in the draft. >>> 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records >>> >>> An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record >>> content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and >>> sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow >>> Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. >> >> It's unclear to me what this means. > > Surely, it is too short explanation. For example, if an IPFIX Mediator > distributes Flow Records on the basis of input IF indexes which > indicates customer, measuring total traffic volume by each Collector can > indicate each customer's accounting information. I see how this could work if the mediator knows which interface connects to which customer or it's able to tell the collector by some means. > On careful thought, it is better that this sentence is omitted. Oh? >>> When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or >> >> "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > > I was confused how to use "we". I mean it is network service provider. > The Mediator is preferable. Sometimes people write "I" or "we" instead of the device, eg "I will export" -> no, you personally won't export anything. Your device will export... >>> Session#b Data Record: >>> Field Count = 7 >>> Scope Count = 1 >>> templateId = XXX >>> exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 >>> collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 >>> collectorTransportProtocol = 16 >>> exporterTransportPort = 10 >>> collectorTransportPort = 20 >>> observationDomainId = 10 >> >> Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? > > Is it preferable using private address? You could use 10. or 192. addresses. > Surely, the destination port number should be 4739. Exactly. And also real looking exporterTransportPort, observationDomainId and so on. Thanks. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Sun Jul 29 06:34:39 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IF66X-0006Ym-BI; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:34:29 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IF66V-0006Yg-Ns for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:34:27 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IF66U-0005Iu-9d for ipfix@ietf.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 06:34:27 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Jul 2007 03:34:24 -0700 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ao8CAPcJrEaQ/uCK/2dsb2JhbAA X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,195,1183359600"; d="scan'208"; a="508123596:sNHT34757816" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6TAYNQg003629; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 12:34:23 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6TAYMkt009167; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 10:34:23 GMT Received: from [10.61.65.33] (ams3-vpn-dhcp289.cisco.com [10.61.65.33]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id LAA24484; Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:34:21 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46AC6D38.4010806@cisco.com> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:34:32 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686 (x86_64); en-GB; rv:1.8.1.4) Gecko/20070509 SeaMonkey/1.1.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi References: <46A7D10F.3050509@cisco.com> <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=11090; t=1185705263; x=1186569263; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20Review=3A=20draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 |Sender:=20; bh=jFHe1eEqQJdjSGYtAnV3Vt6tpBpdUEc8Z3FFQm9QybA=; b=qq7SZLETXbeuURCEYlCz33JJiF263ZibdGO3kFzKpCq16UqK6oJc1Bxf+8314IU71BZyOgSk 8wv6MjyvUWUApAWxbJQ5GBRdz4ltAoeGVuIa43q3iHyzFmtohc5M4oVj; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 7c1a129dc3801d79d40c5ca8dee767eb Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Re: Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, Here with a few replies to some of your points. I was happy with your replies to all the other points, so I snipped out all that text for brevity. >>> handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this >>> describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. >> >> It's unclear what this last line means. > > "this" indicates this draft. > This document describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator > which refer to chapter 5. "Solution" to what? First there would have to be a problem to solve. >> Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? > > This part is described about Flow Mediation. > > I means that the "renewed Flow Records" is modified Flow Records or > aggregated Flow Records. > > Modification of Flow Records means that some fields are added and deleted, > and whose value are modified. That's two different kinds of modification: 1. changing the value of the fields 2. changing the template and record structure (adding / removing fields) It would be good to make this clear - and indicate when each would be done. >>> generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic >>> analyzer in accordance with flow content. >> >> Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise >> Specific elements? > > Mediator doesn't need to understand all content, as semantic. After decoding > by the collecting process, Flow Records are distributed in accordance > with specified elements contents, such as input IF indexes or Peering AS. If the mediator doesn't understand the content, then it cannot do this. Or at least, not do it very well. eg, if it sees that a field is one octet, it may choose to distribute to four collectors as follows: 0x00 - 0x3F -> Collector 1 0x40 - 0x7F -> Collector 2 0x80 - 0xBF -> Collector 3 0xC0 - 0xFF -> Collector 4 However, the octet may only contain 6 bits of information (ie, 0x00 - 0x3F) so all the traffic will go to Collector 1. Or the field may be a counter - so traffic will be divided across the collectors, depending how much was counted. That doesn't seem to make a lot of sense (except perhaps, a special collector to analyse extra-small or extra-large flows). > In this case, Mediator doesn't need to understand other field contents. > In the distribution of Flow Records, Some fields which should be understood > are restricted. You mean, distribution can only be made according to some well understood fields? >>> Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX >>> Mediators. >> >> This last line is unclear. > > In next version, I will add the description about what is IPFIX Mediator. > I means that IPFIX Mediator is generic name of the several nodes, such as > the IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall and IPFIX concentrator. In another mail, I had suggested that since this draft is already quite complex, it might be better to divide into seperate drafts covering different functions. eg, from the titles above, you could have three drafts describing proxy, firewall and concentrator. You would still be able to made a mediator product which complies with all three of these drafts together. >> How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? > > This part is out of scope of this document. > As solution, several solution can be considered. > > In case of our system, other node, such as analyzer, submitted the query > that contains the specified time slot as XML, IPFIX Mediator replies this > query by replaying the NetFlow packets. OK. I think it would be good to add a small note indicating that data may be retrieved from the Storing Process in different ways which are outside the scope of the current work. >>> Observation Domain ID >>> >>> An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and >>> Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX >>> header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of >>> Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does >>> not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If >>> inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the >>> Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. >> I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. >> Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the >> mediation device. > > This part need a discussion with IPFIX members. > If IPFIX Proxy handles one exporting session and one collecting session, > simply IPFIX Proxy doesn't need to change the observation domain values. I agree, because it's a transparent device, ie it's invisible to the collector. > I think, If IPFIX Proxy handles multiple session on the both sides, > IPFIX Proxy needs to assign the new Observation Domain values. I think it would be possible for a device to receive information from other devices, process the information and re-report the information as if it had been observed locally. Viewed another way, we could have three IPFIX devices (A, B, C) reporting to a fourth device (D) as so: +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | device A | | device B | | device C | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | | | +---------------+---------------+ | +----------+ | device D | +----------+ I believe device D could report a new observation domain as so: +----------------------------------------------+ | | | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | | | device A | | device B | | device C | | | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | | | | device D | +----------------------------------------------+ In this case, device D would use its own Observation Domain IDs and not have to report OD ID 0. >> I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to >> the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too >> (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of >> the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering >> Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. >> > > Good idea. Roughly, I can image following figure. > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > | IPFIX Mediator | > | .----------. .---------. | > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > | | |--->sub |-->sub |->|sub |-->| | | > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | IPFIX > --> | |.->|#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > | | || |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > | | || '----|----------|----------|----' | | | > | | || | | | | | | > | | || .--\/---------\/---------\/--. | | | > | | |'---| Storing Process |<--| | | > | | |--->| |-->| | | > | | | '----------------------------' | | | > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > | '----------' '---------' | > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind. >>> 3.2.2. Aggregation Process >> >> As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not >> originally key fields? > > I think that the aggregate key field does not depend on the original key > fields. For sure it's possible - even if statistically it might not make any sense. >>> 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information >>> >>> Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is >> Surely that's a loss of privacy? > > It is depends on the role of IPFIX Mediator. > If it is IPFIX Firewall or IPFIX Proxy, exporting Exporter IP address > becomes to grow the vulnerability. > On the other hand, if it is other nodes, such as concentrator, Exporter > IP address is important information for traffic analysis, such as traffic > engineering. > > In case of making traffic matrix, Exporter IP address can indicate the > ingress router of network domain. Very true. So it's worth indicating this in the draft. >>> 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records >>> >>> An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record >>> content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and >>> sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow >>> Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. >> >> It's unclear to me what this means. > > Surely, it is too short explanation. For example, if an IPFIX Mediator > distributes Flow Records on the basis of input IF indexes which > indicates customer, measuring total traffic volume by each Collector can > indicate each customer's accounting information. I see how this could work if the mediator knows which interface connects to which customer or it's able to tell the collector by some means. > On careful thought, it is better that this sentence is omitted. Oh? >>> When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or >> >> "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > > I was confused how to use "we". I mean it is network service provider. > The Mediator is preferable. Sometimes people write "I" or "we" instead of the device, eg "I will export" -> no, you personally won't export anything. Your device will export... >>> Session#b Data Record: >>> Field Count = 7 >>> Scope Count = 1 >>> templateId = XXX >>> exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 >>> collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 >>> collectorTransportProtocol = 16 >>> exporterTransportPort = 10 >>> collectorTransportPort = 20 >>> observationDomainId = 10 >> >> Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? > > Is it preferable using private address? You could use 10. or 192. addresses. > Surely, the destination port number should be 4739. Exactly. And also real looking exporterTransportPort, observationDomainId and so on. 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We are verified by VeriSign & VISA so we provide effective and dependable buying. ------------56EA9888FB256E-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 30 11:36:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFXHw-0002TG-Tk; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:36:04 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFXHv-0002T5-RY for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:36:03 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFXHv-0008EN-0s for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:36:03 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6UFZoYc018474; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:35:52 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:35:54 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Message-Id: <20070730211130.ED7C.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:35:53 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Gerhard, > > > > They seems to be compossible. Do you think integration is necessary ? > > Do you mean that we consider more the part of aggregation, as first step? > > The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > very broad. > A short summary of the aspects covered by the aggregation draft to > determine potential overlaps: > > 1) architecture of a concentrator > 2) description language for configuring metering processes > (essentially input filters and flow keys) > 3) a couple of new IEs useful to report aggregates and applied input > filters (e.g. port range IE) > 4) a new template type to efficiently report information about applied > input filters > > I assume that item 1) is/will be covered in your draft. > > Item 2) is related to configuration and covered by the configuration draft. > > The remaining items 3) and 4) might be interesting extensions to > efficiently report how a mediator modifies/filters the original data. > Yet, you would probably try to export this kind of information with > exiting protocol mechanisms at first. Thank you for your suggestion. Surely, the mechanism of exporting method might be one of my action items. Does the overview of final documents become as follows ? 1) Architecture of IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator Maybe, the internal component part of IPFIX Mediator draft covers the architecture of IPFIX Concentrator. 2) Configuration Data Model for IPFIX and PSAMP Your draft will covers the cofiguration data model for IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator devices? I will check your draft, again. 3) New information Elements for IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator My draft proposes a couple of new IEs. But, they are different from what you think. After discussing item#1 and item#4, I think it is better that we consider what information elements are needed. 4) Reporting Method for IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator This draft will cover the reporting method of aggregation draft. But, I am not sure clearly that the necessity of the reporting method is for only IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator or whole of Exporter. I think that we will discuss this item after our agreement for definition of mediator/concentrator. At first, I would like to achieve the consensus of IPFIX members about item#1 in order to progress the approach. > > Regards, > Gerhard > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M$B".(Bz > Computer Networks and Internet > Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science > University of Tuebingen > Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany > Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 > E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 30 11:36:13 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFXHw-0002TG-Tk; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:36:04 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFXHv-0002T5-RY for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:36:03 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([192.68.245.115]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFXHv-0008EN-0s for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 11:36:03 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6UFZoYc018474; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:35:52 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:35:54 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <20070727074625.4986.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Message-Id: <20070730211130.ED7C.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 00:35:53 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0fa76816851382eb71b0a882ccdc29ac Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Gerhard, > > > > They seems to be compossible. Do you think integration is necessary ? > > Do you mean that we consider more the part of aggregation, as first step? > > The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > very broad. > A short summary of the aspects covered by the aggregation draft to > determine potential overlaps: > > 1) architecture of a concentrator > 2) description language for configuring metering processes > (essentially input filters and flow keys) > 3) a couple of new IEs useful to report aggregates and applied input > filters (e.g. port range IE) > 4) a new template type to efficiently report information about applied > input filters > > I assume that item 1) is/will be covered in your draft. > > Item 2) is related to configuration and covered by the configuration draft. > > The remaining items 3) and 4) might be interesting extensions to > efficiently report how a mediator modifies/filters the original data. > Yet, you would probably try to export this kind of information with > exiting protocol mechanisms at first. Thank you for your suggestion. Surely, the mechanism of exporting method might be one of my action items. Does the overview of final documents become as follows ? 1) Architecture of IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator Maybe, the internal component part of IPFIX Mediator draft covers the architecture of IPFIX Concentrator. 2) Configuration Data Model for IPFIX and PSAMP Your draft will covers the cofiguration data model for IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator devices? I will check your draft, again. 3) New information Elements for IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator My draft proposes a couple of new IEs. But, they are different from what you think. After discussing item#1 and item#4, I think it is better that we consider what information elements are needed. 4) Reporting Method for IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator This draft will cover the reporting method of aggregation draft. But, I am not sure clearly that the necessity of the reporting method is for only IPFIX Concentrator/Mediator or whole of Exporter. I think that we will discuss this item after our agreement for definition of mediator/concentrator. At first, I would like to achieve the consensus of IPFIX members about item#1 in order to progress the approach. > > Regards, > Gerhard > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M$B".(Bz > Computer Networks and Internet > Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science > University of Tuebingen > Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany > Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 > E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 30 12:36:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYEa-0001ix-Sc; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:36:40 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYEY-0001iL-LP for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:36:38 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYEW-00027m-CA for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:36:38 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6UGaVVD018821; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:36:32 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:36:33 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> References: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:36:32 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:27:13 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, >=20 > Gerhard Muenz wrote: >=20 > > The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > > very broad. >=20 > This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide the= =20 > mediator into several separate and more general drafts which vendors=20 > could implement in a single product? Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? - IPFIX concentrator - IPFIX proxy - IPFIX firewall - IPFIX distributor=20 It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. My draft has not described enough, yet. =2E.. I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become similar description. Other things could be common parts. I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX Mediators might be necessary for common parts. Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft and the Flow Mediation draft. And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the content of Flow Records, such as modification. But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? > --=20 > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. ---=20 Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 30 12:36:45 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYEa-0001ix-Sc; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:36:40 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYEY-0001iL-LP for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:36:38 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFYEW-00027m-CA for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 12:36:38 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6UGaVVD018821; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:36:32 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:36:33 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> References: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 01:36:32 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 15:27:13 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, >=20 > Gerhard Muenz wrote: >=20 > > The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > > very broad. >=20 > This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide the= =20 > mediator into several separate and more general drafts which vendors=20 > could implement in a single product? Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? - IPFIX concentrator - IPFIX proxy - IPFIX firewall - IPFIX distributor=20 It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. My draft has not described enough, yet. =2E.. I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become similar description. Other things could be common parts. I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX Mediators might be necessary for common parts. Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft and the Flow Mediation draft. And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the content of Flow Records, such as modification. But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? > --=20 > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. ---=20 Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 30 16:26:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFbp8-0004Eb-3K; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:26:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFbp7-0004EN-PU for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:26:37 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFbp6-0008Py-HV for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:26:37 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Jul 2007 22:26:37 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPjlrUaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACOIAEBCQon X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,200,1183327200"; d="scan'208"; a="149386919:sNHT26785514" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6UKQZqP017061; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:26:35 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6UKQUkt025838; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:26:30 GMT Received: from [10.61.81.162] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4515.cisco.com [10.61.81.162]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28027; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:26:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:26:44 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.5) Gecko/20070719 SeaMonkey/1.1.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1667; t=1185827195; x=1186691195; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20*Proposed*=20new=20work=20items, =20take=20t wo |Sender:=20; bh=OGAuC3NBUU17PTz8Nw83uWbEplKCI4j4+iOliICR7Gs=; b=m0nBaVRE/TUE+7+R+mnsP40ZUyObxu1XIUBonIRuPkS2NwKBAb8dHx+7rdfRqnWkrjnK4HoT okfIO+w0jdwcUmo5Ds7Ldm42yxx36SfAfOKpMQHMIkCcTWagUZXcwF7q; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, >>> The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is >>> very broad. >> >> This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide the >> mediator into several separate and more general drafts which vendors >> could implement in a single product? > > Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? > > - IPFIX concentrator > - IPFIX proxy > - IPFIX firewall > - IPFIX distributor > It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. My draft has not > described enough, yet. > ... > > I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. > > Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. Exactly, instead of covering such a broad scope in one draft. However, it's only one possible approach. > But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become > similar description. Other things could be common parts. > I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. > Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX > Mediators might be necessary for common parts. True. > Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft > and the Flow Mediation draft. > > And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the > granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the > content of Flow Records, such as modification. > > But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? I had hoped some other IPFIX-ers would comment. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Mon Jul 30 16:26:48 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFbp8-0004Eb-3K; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:26:38 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFbp7-0004EN-PU for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:26:37 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFbp6-0008Py-HV for ipfix@ietf.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 16:26:37 -0400 Received: from ams-dkim-1.cisco.com ([144.254.224.138]) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Jul 2007 22:26:37 +0200 X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAAAPjlrUaQ/uCKh2dsb2JhbACOIAEBCQon X-IronPort-AV: i="4.19,200,1183327200"; d="scan'208"; a="149386919:sNHT26785514" Received: from ams-core-1.cisco.com (ams-core-1.cisco.com [144.254.224.150]) by ams-dkim-1.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l6UKQZqP017061; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 22:26:35 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.71.48]) by ams-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l6UKQUkt025838; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:26:30 GMT Received: from [10.61.81.162] (ams3-vpn-dhcp4515.cisco.com [10.61.81.162]) by cisco.com (8.8.8-Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id VAA28027; Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:26:28 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2007 21:26:44 +0100 From: Paul Aitken User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux x86_64; en-GB; rv:1.8.1.5) Gecko/20070719 SeaMonkey/1.1.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: kobayashi atsushi Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> In-Reply-To: <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1667; t=1185827195; x=1186691195; c=relaxed/simple; s=amsdkim1002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=paitken@cisco.com; z=From:=20Paul=20Aitken=20 |Subject:=20Re=3A=20[IPFIX]=20*Proposed*=20new=20work=20items, =20take=20t wo |Sender:=20; bh=OGAuC3NBUU17PTz8Nw83uWbEplKCI4j4+iOliICR7Gs=; b=m0nBaVRE/TUE+7+R+mnsP40ZUyObxu1XIUBonIRuPkS2NwKBAb8dHx+7rdfRqnWkrjnK4HoT okfIO+w0jdwcUmo5Ds7Ldm42yxx36SfAfOKpMQHMIkCcTWagUZXcwF7q; Authentication-Results: ams-dkim-1; header.From=paitken@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/amsdkim1002 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: -4.0 (----) X-Scan-Signature: 8b431ad66d60be2d47c7bfeb879db82c Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Kobayashi-san, >>> The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is >>> very broad. >> >> This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide the >> mediator into several separate and more general drafts which vendors >> could implement in a single product? > > Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? > > - IPFIX concentrator > - IPFIX proxy > - IPFIX firewall > - IPFIX distributor > It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. My draft has not > described enough, yet. > ... > > I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. > > Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. Exactly, instead of covering such a broad scope in one draft. However, it's only one possible approach. > But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become > similar description. Other things could be common parts. > I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. > Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX > Mediators might be necessary for common parts. True. > Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft > and the Flow Mediation draft. > > And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the > granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the > content of Flow Records, such as modification. > > But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? I had hoped some other IPFIX-ers would comment. -- Paul Aitken Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 31 05:09:49 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFnja-0002jd-S9; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:09:42 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFnjZ-0002eS-QS for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:09:41 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFnjY-0006Ud-49 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:09:41 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6V99cGF021651 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:09:39 +0200 Message-ID: <46AEFC3B.1090505@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:09:15 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.54; VDF: 6.39.0.200; host: mx05) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2042588151==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============2042588151== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020507070002080803000502" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020507070002080803000502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kobayashi, Paul, all, Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > >>>> The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is >>>> very broad. >>> >>> This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide >>> the mediator into several separate and more general drafts which >>> vendors could implement in a single product? >> >> Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? >> >> - IPFIX concentrator >> - IPFIX proxy >> - IPFIX firewall >> - IPFIX distributor It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. >> My draft has not >> described enough, yet. >> ... >> >> I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. >> >> Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. > > Exactly, instead of covering such a broad scope in one draft. However, > it's only one possible approach. IPFIX concentrator, IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall, IPFIX distributor etc., do we really need to distinguish between this whole bunch of new devices? I think these expressions reflect more the role or function of a mediator within a given network. The question is also, if operators really need all of these new functionalities, or if we talk about potentially useful things that will never be used in practice. >> But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become >> similar description. Other things could be common parts. >> I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. >> Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX >> Mediators might be necessary for common parts. > > True. > > >> Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft >> and the Flow Mediation draft. >> >> And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the >> granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the >> content of Flow Records, such as modification. >> >> But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? > > I had hoped some other IPFIX-ers would comment. I see the following two aspects: 1) *Relaying and multiplexing of IPFIX transport sessions* without changing or filtering the data. This is currently called "protocol mediation". If this function is really requested by operators, there are some issues to be solved, like: - how to translate knowledge about the original observation domain into option data? - how to convert relative timestamps? - how to do the template management, especially in case of multiplexing? 2) *Filtering, anonymization and aggregation* of measurement data. This is currently called "flow mediation", yet I think that it should not be restricted to flow data, and also not be restricted to mediators. The issues here are mostly related to the reporting of what is going on in the Metering Process, i.e. what kind of filtering, what kind of anonymization, what kind of aggregation etc. takes place. I think that all these functions are not specific to the Mediator, i.e. they can also be implemented in a usual exporter. So I would not cover them in a mediator draft, but in a more generic draft (or several problem-specific ones) describing advanced functions within the Metering Process and how to report them. Regards, Gerhard -- Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Münz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --------------ms020507070002080803000502 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJdTCC AxUwggJ+oAMCAQICEGU5u1eI8WeEkIox6PdwkFAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDIxMzEwMzMxOVoX DTA4MDIxMzEwMzMxOVowbDEOMAwGA1UEBBMFTXVlbnoxEDAOBgNVBCoTB0dlcmhhcmQxFjAU BgNVBAMTDUdlcmhhcmQgTXVlbnoxMDAuBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWIW11ZW56QGluZm9ybWF0aWsu 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ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:09:41 -0400 Received: from mx05.uni-tuebingen.de ([134.2.3.4]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFnjY-0006Ud-49 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 05:09:41 -0400 Received: from [134.2.172.138] (u-172-c138.cs.uni-tuebingen.de [134.2.172.138]) by mx05.uni-tuebingen.de (8.13.6/8.13.6) with ESMTP id l6V99cGF021651 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:09:39 +0200 Message-ID: <46AEFC3B.1090505@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:09:15 +0200 From: Gerhard Muenz User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.12 (Windows/20070509) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two References: <46A9E9C4.3010708@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> <46AA00C1.7020206@cisco.com> <20070731002507.ED83.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> X-AntiVirus: checked by AntiVir MailGate (version: 2.1.2-11; AVE: 7.4.0.54; VDF: 6.39.0.200; host: mx05) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 995b2e24d23b953c94bac5288c432399 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2042588151==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --===============2042588151== Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/x-pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha1; boundary="------------ms020507070002080803000502" This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms020507070002080803000502 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Kobayashi, Paul, all, Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > >>>> The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is >>>> very broad. >>> >>> This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide >>> the mediator into several separate and more general drafts which >>> vendors could implement in a single product? >> >> Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? >> >> - IPFIX concentrator >> - IPFIX proxy >> - IPFIX firewall >> - IPFIX distributor It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. >> My draft has not >> described enough, yet. >> ... >> >> I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. >> >> Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. > > Exactly, instead of covering such a broad scope in one draft. However, > it's only one possible approach. IPFIX concentrator, IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall, IPFIX distributor etc., do we really need to distinguish between this whole bunch of new devices? I think these expressions reflect more the role or function of a mediator within a given network. The question is also, if operators really need all of these new functionalities, or if we talk about potentially useful things that will never be used in practice. >> But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become >> similar description. Other things could be common parts. >> I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. >> Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX >> Mediators might be necessary for common parts. > > True. > > >> Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft >> and the Flow Mediation draft. >> >> And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the >> granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the >> content of Flow Records, such as modification. >> >> But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? > > I had hoped some other IPFIX-ers would comment. I see the following two aspects: 1) *Relaying and multiplexing of IPFIX transport sessions* without changing or filtering the data. This is currently called "protocol mediation". If this function is really requested by operators, there are some issues to be solved, like: - how to translate knowledge about the original observation domain into option data? - how to convert relative timestamps? - how to do the template management, especially in case of multiplexing? 2) *Filtering, anonymization and aggregation* of measurement data. This is currently called "flow mediation", yet I think that it should not be restricted to flow data, and also not be restricted to mediators. The issues here are mostly related to the reporting of what is going on in the Metering Process, i.e. what kind of filtering, what kind of anonymization, what kind of aggregation etc. takes place. I think that all these functions are not specific to the Mediator, i.e. they can also be implemented in a usual exporter. So I would not cover them in a mediator draft, but in a more generic draft (or several problem-specific ones) describing advanced functions within the Metering Process and how to report them. Regards, Gerhard -- Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard Münz Computer Networks and Internet Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science University of Tuebingen Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --------------ms020507070002080803000502 Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIJdTCC AxUwggJ+oAMCAQICEGU5u1eI8WeEkIox6PdwkFAwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UE BhMCWkExJTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMT I1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDIxMzEwMzMxOVoX DTA4MDIxMzEwMzMxOVowbDEOMAwGA1UEBBMFTXVlbnoxEDAOBgNVBCoTB0dlcmhhcmQxFjAU BgNVBAMTDUdlcmhhcmQgTXVlbnoxMDAuBgkqhkiG9w0BCQEWIW11ZW56QGluZm9ybWF0aWsu 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We are ratified by VISA & VeriSign consequently we provide certain & confidential purchase. ------------6758B6E16758BDAE-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 31 11:54:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFu37-0001oD-6M; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:54:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFu36-0001o7-7Y for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:54:16 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com ([194.36.128.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFu35-0006r3-5q for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:54:16 -0400 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1185897253-01cf004c0000-urGyNO X-Barracuda-URL: http://mhd-bar.hitachi-eu.com:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: primary.hitachi-eu.net[193.39.225.234] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1185897253 X-ASG-Whitelist: Client Received: from mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com (primary.hitachi-eu.net [193.39.225.234]) by gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 90E6880838 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:54:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com (Not Verified[193.39.227.52]) by mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com with MailMarshal (v6, 1, 8, 2172) id ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:54:13 +0000 Received: from mhdexcb.adhel.hitachi-eu.com ([193.39.227.47]) by MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:54:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7235.2 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, work item # 2 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, work item # 2 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:54:12 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, work item # 2 Thread-Index: AcfTiZ15Tn9B9Hi3QBOclj1Ny7O4UA== From: "Boschi, Elisa" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2007 15:54:12.0251 (UTC) FILETIME=[09D976B0:01C7D38B] X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by HEU SPAM Firewall - MHD at hitachi-eu.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0314250734==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0314250734== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable all, one comment inline... Brian Trammell wrote: > On Jul 25, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Nevil Brownlee wrote: >=20 > >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> >> IPFIX: Proposal for new work >> Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago >> >> For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 >> (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. >> Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< >> Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the >> questionnaire form below!! >> ... >> >> 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) >> Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. >> Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. >> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It's unclear to me that, after the stream restriction change in point 0= .=20 > above, this should be Experimental as opposed to Informational... Per=20 > 2026, Experimental RFCs are intended as an archival record of a researc= h=20 > work. Unless the primary intention is to change this draft to be a=20 > description and evaluation of the performance benefits of this (and=20 > potentially other) stream selection methods, it appears very much to be= =20 > the description of an export method (which will be in line with the=20 > protocol after the stream restriction change in point 0. above) that ha= s=20 > potential performance and other benefits within a defined set of use=20 > cases, very much like the recently-approved (Informational) Reducing=20 > Redundancy draft. >=20 I agree on this point. The per-stream draft is the description of an opti= onal method for SCTP export, offering enhanced functionality for a limite= d set of applications. Informational seems the most appropriate choice, p= retty much for the same reasons that brought the Working Group to decide = the status of Reducing Redundancy (i.e. informational).=20 Regards, Elisa *************************************************************************= *************************=20 E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer.=20 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are int= ended solely for the use=20 of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Access to this e= -mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copy= ing, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. E-m= ail messages are not=20 necessarily secure. Hitachi does not accept responsibility for any change= s made to this message=20 after it was sent.=20 Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the presence= =20of computer viruses.=20 *************************************************************************= ************************* ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ****************************************************************= **********************************
E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaime= r.=20

This email and any files transmitt= ed with it=20 are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or= =20entity=20 to which they are addressed. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient,any disclosure, copyi= ng,=20 distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it= , is=20 prohibited.
E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does n= ot=20 accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was=20 sent.

Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail message= s for=20 the presence of computer viruses.=20
*********************************************************************= *****************************

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7-- --===============0314250734== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============0314250734==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 31 11:54:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFu37-0001oD-6M; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:54:17 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFu36-0001o7-7Y for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:54:16 -0400 Received: from gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com ([194.36.128.25]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFu35-0006r3-5q for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:54:16 -0400 X-ASG-Debug-ID: 1185897253-01cf004c0000-urGyNO X-Barracuda-URL: http://mhd-bar.hitachi-eu.com:8000/cgi-bin/mark.cgi X-Barracuda-Connect: primary.hitachi-eu.net[193.39.225.234] X-Barracuda-Start-Time: 1185897253 X-ASG-Whitelist: Client Received: from mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com (primary.hitachi-eu.net [193.39.225.234]) by gatekeeper.hitachi-eu.com (Spam Firewall) with ESMTP id 90E6880838 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:54:13 +0100 (BST) Received: from MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com (Not Verified[193.39.227.52]) by mhd-mta-int.hitachi-eu.com with MailMarshal (v6, 1, 8, 2172) id ; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 15:54:13 +0000 Received: from mhdexcb.adhel.hitachi-eu.com ([193.39.227.47]) by MHDEXC99.adhel.hitachi-eu.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:54:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5.7235.2 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 X-ASG-Orig-Subj: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, work item # 2 Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, work item # 2 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:54:12 +0100 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, work item # 2 Thread-Index: AcfTiZ15Tn9B9Hi3QBOclj1Ny7O4UA== From: "Boschi, Elisa" To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 31 Jul 2007 15:54:12.0251 (UTC) FILETIME=[09D976B0:01C7D38B] X-Barracuda-Virus-Scanned: by HEU SPAM Firewall - MHD at hitachi-eu.com X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 16c9da4896bf5539ae3547c6c25f06a0 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0314250734==" Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0314250734== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable all, one comment inline... Brian Trammell wrote: > On Jul 25, 2007, at 5:08 PM, Nevil Brownlee wrote: >=20 > >> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . >> >> IPFIX: Proposal for new work >> Based on discussion at IETF 69, Chicago >> >> For IPFIX mailing list, we suggest that items 1-6 >> (above the --- line) be adopted as new WG work items. >> Please comment by 6 Aug 07 <<<< >> Also, we need reviewers; please fill in and email back the >> questionnaire form below!! >> ... >> >> 2. SCTP Per-Stream Draft (Benoit Claise) >> Agreed: Needs to be explored, as a possible protocol option. >> Procedure: Make this a WG item, as Experimental RFC. >> Milestones: WG LC after IETF 70, to IESG before IETF 71. >=20 > It's unclear to me that, after the stream restriction change in point 0= .=20 > above, this should be Experimental as opposed to Informational... Per=20 > 2026, Experimental RFCs are intended as an archival record of a researc= h=20 > work. Unless the primary intention is to change this draft to be a=20 > description and evaluation of the performance benefits of this (and=20 > potentially other) stream selection methods, it appears very much to be= =20 > the description of an export method (which will be in line with the=20 > protocol after the stream restriction change in point 0. above) that ha= s=20 > potential performance and other benefits within a defined set of use=20 > cases, very much like the recently-approved (Informational) Reducing=20 > Redundancy draft. >=20 I agree on this point. The per-stream draft is the description of an opti= onal method for SCTP export, offering enhanced functionality for a limite= d set of applications. Informational seems the most appropriate choice, p= retty much for the same reasons that brought the Working Group to decide = the status of Reducing Redundancy (i.e. informational).=20 Regards, Elisa *************************************************************************= *************************=20 E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaimer.=20 This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential and are int= ended solely for the use=20 of the individual or entity to which they are addressed. Access to this e= -mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copy= ing, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited. E-m= ail messages are not=20 necessarily secure. Hitachi does not accept responsibility for any change= s made to this message=20 after it was sent.=20 Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail messages for the presence= =20of computer viruses.=20 *************************************************************************= ************************* ------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable ****************************************************************= **********************************
E-mail Confidentiality Notice and Disclaime= r.=20

This email and any files transmitt= ed with it=20 are confidential and are intended solely for the use of the individual or= =20entity=20 to which they are addressed. Access to this e-mail by anyone else is=20 unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient,any disclosure, copyi= ng,=20 distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it= , is=20 prohibited.
E-mail messages are not necessarily secure.Hitachi does n= ot=20 accept responsibility for any changes made to this message after it was=20 sent.

Please note that Hitachi checks outgoing e-mail message= s for=20 the presence of computer viruses.=20
*********************************************************************= *****************************

------_=_NextPart_001_01C7D38B.09B918E7-- --===============0314250734== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix --===============0314250734==-- From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 31 13:09:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvDa-0005ME-KO; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvDY-0005Jj-F4 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:08 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvDV-0007mV-FX for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:08 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6VH8wuQ034125; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 02:08:58 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:08:58 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken In-Reply-To: <46AC6D38.4010806@cisco.com> References: <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46AC6D38.4010806@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070801002750.C845.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:08:59 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4e722e9456ead69ba4cdd21dd3d3600 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Re: Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Please see in-line. On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:34:32 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > Here with a few replies to some of your points. I was happy with your > replies to all the other points, so I snipped out all that text for brevity. > > > >>> handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this > >>> describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. > >> > >> It's unclear what this last line means. > > > > "this" indicates this draft. > > This document describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator > > which refer to chapter 5. > > "Solution" to what? First there would have to be a problem to solve. > I see. I will add problem statements. > > >> Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? > > > > This part is described about Flow Mediation. > > > > I means that the "renewed Flow Records" is modified Flow Records or > > aggregated Flow Records. > > > > Modification of Flow Records means that some fields are added and deleted, > > and whose value are modified. > > That's two different kinds of modification: > > 1. changing the value of the fields > 2. changing the template and record structure (adding / removing fields) > Yes. > It would be good to make this clear - and indicate when each would be done. > > I don't indicate that all functions are needed in Mediator. At first, I would like to define the function of changing the Flow Records. In next version, I will think more about description. > >>> generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic > >>> analyzer in accordance with flow content. > >> > >> Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise > >> Specific elements? > > > > Mediator doesn't need to understand all content, as semantic. After decoding > > by the collecting process, Flow Records are distributed in accordance > > with specified elements contents, such as input IF indexes or Peering AS. It might be improper description. I meant that "content" is value of some information elements. Did I misunderstand "content"? If the Mediator distributes Flow Records in accordance with Peering AS, the Mediator must understand the value of Peering AS fields. But, the Mediator does not need to see the value of other fields. > > If the mediator doesn't understand the content, then it cannot do this. > Or at least, not do it very well. > > eg, if it sees that a field is one octet, it may choose to distribute to > four collectors as follows: > > 0x00 - 0x3F -> Collector 1 > 0x40 - 0x7F -> Collector 2 > 0x80 - 0xBF -> Collector 3 > 0xC0 - 0xFF -> Collector 4 > > However, the octet may only contain 6 bits of information (ie, 0x00 - > 0x3F) so all the traffic will go to Collector 1. > > Or the field may be a counter - so traffic will be divided across the > collectors, depending how much was counted. That doesn't seem to make a > lot of sense (except perhaps, a special collector to analyse extra-small > or extra-large flows). > > > > In this case, Mediator doesn't need to understand other field contents. > > In the distribution of Flow Records, Some fields which should be understood > > are restricted. > > You mean, distribution can only be made according to some well > understood fields? > > Yes. At least, mediator does not need to see the value of all fields. Even if the mediator can not recognize the value of some enterprise information element, what is necessary is just to forward the Flow Records with its fields. > >>> Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX > >>> Mediators. > >> > >> This last line is unclear. > > > > In next version, I will add the description about what is IPFIX Mediator. > > I means that IPFIX Mediator is generic name of the several nodes, such as > > the IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall and IPFIX concentrator. > > In another mail, I had suggested that since this draft is already quite > complex, it might be better to divide into seperate drafts covering > different functions. eg, from the titles above, you could have three > drafts describing proxy, firewall and concentrator. You would still be > able to made a mediator product which complies with all three of these > drafts together. > I would like to know other members comments. > >> How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? > > > > This part is out of scope of this document. > > As solution, several solution can be considered. > > > > In case of our system, other node, such as analyzer, submitted the query > > that contains the specified time slot as XML, IPFIX Mediator replies this > > query by replaying the NetFlow packets. > > OK. I think it would be good to add a small note indicating that data > may be retrieved from the Storing Process in different ways which are > outside the scope of the current work. > > Thank you. I will add a small note. > > >>> Observation Domain ID > >>> > >>> An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and > >>> Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX > >>> header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of > >>> Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does > >>> not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If > >>> inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the > >>> Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. > >> I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. > >> Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the > >> mediation device. > > > > This part need a discussion with IPFIX members. > > If IPFIX Proxy handles one exporting session and one collecting session, > > simply IPFIX Proxy doesn't need to change the observation domain values. > > I agree, because it's a transparent device, ie it's invisible to the > collector. > invisible? At least, the source ip address of IPFIX session is changed to IPFIX proxy address. The collector presumes this address indicates the original exporter and the observation domain is attached to this exporter. > > > I think, If IPFIX Proxy handles multiple session on the both sides, > > IPFIX Proxy needs to assign the new Observation Domain values. > > I think it would be possible for a device to receive information from > other devices, process the information and re-report the information as > if it had been observed locally. > > Viewed another way, we could have three IPFIX devices (A, B, C) > reporting to a fourth device (D) as so: > > +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ > | device A | | device B | | device C | > +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ > | | | > +---------------+---------------+ > | > +----------+ > | device D | > +----------+ > > > I believe device D could report a new observation domain as so: > > > +----------------------------------------------+ > | | > | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | > | | device A | | device B | | device C | | > | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | > | | > | device D | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > > In this case, device D would use its own Observation Domain IDs and not > have to report OD ID 0. > I can consider as you mentioned. I think that setting ODID 0 is exactly not wrong according to IPFIX protocol draft, as follows. The Observation Domain ID SHOULD be 0 when no specific Observation Domain ID is relevant for the entire IPFIX Message. For example, when exporting the Exporting Process Statistics, or in case of hierarchy of Collector when aggregated data records are exported. It might depend on the policy of device D. > > >> I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to > >> the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too > >> (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of > >> the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering > >> Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. > >> > > > > Good idea. Roughly, I can image following figure. > > > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | IPFIX Mediator | > > | .----------. .---------. | > > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > > | | |--->sub |-->sub |->|sub |-->| | | > > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | IPFIX > > --> | |.->|#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > > | | || |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > > | | || '----|----------|----------|----' | | | > > | | || | | | | | | > > | | || .--\/---------\/---------\/--. | | | > > | | |'---| Storing Process |<--| | | > > | | |--->| |-->| | | > > | | | '----------------------------' | | | > > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > > | '----------' '---------' | > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind. > I will add above figure. > > >>> 3.2.2. Aggregation Process > >> > >> As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not > >> originally key fields? > > > > I think that the aggregate key field does not depend on the original key > > fields. > > For sure it's possible - even if statistically it might not make any sense. > > Please let me know in what kind of case it does not make any sense. > >>> 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information > >>> > >>> Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is > >> Surely that's a loss of privacy? > > > > It is depends on the role of IPFIX Mediator. > > If it is IPFIX Firewall or IPFIX Proxy, exporting Exporter IP address > > becomes to grow the vulnerability. > > On the other hand, if it is other nodes, such as concentrator, Exporter > > IP address is important information for traffic analysis, such as traffic > > engineering. > > > > In case of making traffic matrix, Exporter IP address can indicate the > > ingress router of network domain. > > Very true. So it's worth indicating this in the draft. > Yes. > > > >>> 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records > >>> > >>> An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record > >>> content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and > >>> sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow > >>> Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. > >> > >> It's unclear to me what this means. > > > > Surely, it is too short explanation. For example, if an IPFIX Mediator > > distributes Flow Records on the basis of input IF indexes which > > indicates customer, measuring total traffic volume by each Collector can > > indicate each customer's accounting information. > > I see how this could work if the mediator knows which interface connects > to which customer or it's able to tell the collector by some means. > Yes. > > On careful thought, it is better that this sentence is omitted. > > Oh? > This sentence is not consistent with the meaning of the paragraph. I will improve the paragraph. > > >>> When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or > >> > >> "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > > > > I was confused how to use "we". I mean it is network service provider. > > The Mediator is preferable. > > Sometimes people write "I" or "we" instead of the device, eg "I will > export" -> no, you personally won't export anything. Your device will > export... > Yes. Thank you. > > >>> Session#b Data Record: > >>> Field Count = 7 > >>> Scope Count = 1 > >>> templateId = XXX > >>> exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > >>> collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > >>> collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > >>> exporterTransportPort = 10 > >>> collectorTransportPort = 20 > >>> observationDomainId = 10 > >> > >> Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? > > > > Is it preferable using private address? > > You could use 10. or 192. addresses. > > > Surely, the destination port number should be 4739. > > Exactly. And also real looking exporterTransportPort, > observationDomainId and so on. > OK. > Thanks. > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 31 13:09:14 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvDa-0005ME-KO; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:10 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvDY-0005Jj-F4 for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:08 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvDV-0007mV-FX for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:09:08 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6VH8wuQ034125; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 02:08:58 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:08:58 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Paul Aitken In-Reply-To: <46AC6D38.4010806@cisco.com> References: <20070729030242.485A.AKOBA@nttv6.net> <46AC6D38.4010806@cisco.com> Message-Id: <20070801002750.C845.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:08:59 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4e722e9456ead69ba4cdd21dd3d3600 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org Subject: [IPFIX] Re: Review: draft-kobayashi-ipfix-mediator-model-00 X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Paul, Please see in-line. On Sun, 29 Jul 2007 11:34:32 +0100 Paul Aitken wrote: > Kobayashi-san, > > Here with a few replies to some of your points. I was happy with your > replies to all the other points, so I snipped out all that text for brevity. > > > >>> handling the Flow Records of each function. In addition, this > >>> describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator. > >> > >> It's unclear what this last line means. > > > > "this" indicates this draft. > > This document describes the model of the solution scenario using IPFIX Mediator > > which refer to chapter 5. > > "Solution" to what? First there would have to be a problem to solve. > I see. I will add problem statements. > > >> Also, what are "renewed Flow Records"? > > > > This part is described about Flow Mediation. > > > > I means that the "renewed Flow Records" is modified Flow Records or > > aggregated Flow Records. > > > > Modification of Flow Records means that some fields are added and deleted, > > and whose value are modified. > > That's two different kinds of modification: > > 1. changing the value of the fields > 2. changing the template and record structure (adding / removing fields) > Yes. > It would be good to make this clear - and indicate when each would be done. > > I don't indicate that all functions are needed in Mediator. At first, I would like to define the function of changing the Flow Records. In next version, I will think more about description. > >>> generated and distributed to an appropriate Collector or traffic > >>> analyzer in accordance with flow content. > >> > >> Must the mediator understand the content? eg, what about Enterprise > >> Specific elements? > > > > Mediator doesn't need to understand all content, as semantic. After decoding > > by the collecting process, Flow Records are distributed in accordance > > with specified elements contents, such as input IF indexes or Peering AS. It might be improper description. I meant that "content" is value of some information elements. Did I misunderstand "content"? If the Mediator distributes Flow Records in accordance with Peering AS, the Mediator must understand the value of Peering AS fields. But, the Mediator does not need to see the value of other fields. > > If the mediator doesn't understand the content, then it cannot do this. > Or at least, not do it very well. > > eg, if it sees that a field is one octet, it may choose to distribute to > four collectors as follows: > > 0x00 - 0x3F -> Collector 1 > 0x40 - 0x7F -> Collector 2 > 0x80 - 0xBF -> Collector 3 > 0xC0 - 0xFF -> Collector 4 > > However, the octet may only contain 6 bits of information (ie, 0x00 - > 0x3F) so all the traffic will go to Collector 1. > > Or the field may be a counter - so traffic will be divided across the > collectors, depending how much was counted. That doesn't seem to make a > lot of sense (except perhaps, a special collector to analyse extra-small > or extra-large flows). > > > > In this case, Mediator doesn't need to understand other field contents. > > In the distribution of Flow Records, Some fields which should be understood > > are restricted. > > You mean, distribution can only be made according to some well > understood fields? > > Yes. At least, mediator does not need to see the value of all fields. Even if the mediator can not recognize the value of some enterprise information element, what is necessary is just to forward the Flow Records with its fields. > >>> Firewall and an IPFIX concentrator are one node of IPFIX > >>> Mediators. > >> > >> This last line is unclear. > > > > In next version, I will add the description about what is IPFIX Mediator. > > I means that IPFIX Mediator is generic name of the several nodes, such as > > the IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall and IPFIX concentrator. > > In another mail, I had suggested that since this draft is already quite > complex, it might be better to divide into seperate drafts covering > different functions. eg, from the titles above, you could have three > drafts describing proxy, firewall and concentrator. You would still be > able to made a mediator product which complies with all three of these > drafts together. > I would like to know other members comments. > >> How does information get *out* of the Storing Process? > > > > This part is out of scope of this document. > > As solution, several solution can be considered. > > > > In case of our system, other node, such as analyzer, submitted the query > > that contains the specified time slot as XML, IPFIX Mediator replies this > > query by replaying the NetFlow packets. > > OK. I think it would be good to add a small note indicating that data > may be retrieved from the Storing Process in different ways which are > outside the scope of the current work. > > Thank you. I will add a small note. > > >>> Observation Domain ID > >>> > >>> An IPFIX Mediator doesn't host the Observation Point and > >>> Observation Domain. Though, the Observation Domain ID in IPFIX > >>> header sent by IPFIX Mediator also indicates the largest set of > >>> Observation Points in the Original Exporter, but this value does > >>> not indicate the physical entity of the Original Exporter. If > >>> inputted Flow Records are aggregated in the Metering Process, the > >>> Observation Domain ID value in IPFIX header SHOULD be 0. > >> I think only if the mediator is spoofing the original source exorter. > >> Arguably a whole new set of Observation Domain values applies on the > >> mediation device. > > > > This part need a discussion with IPFIX members. > > If IPFIX Proxy handles one exporting session and one collecting session, > > simply IPFIX Proxy doesn't need to change the observation domain values. > > I agree, because it's a transparent device, ie it's invisible to the > collector. > invisible? At least, the source ip address of IPFIX session is changed to IPFIX proxy address. The collector presumes this address indicates the original exporter and the observation domain is attached to this exporter. > > > I think, If IPFIX Proxy handles multiple session on the both sides, > > IPFIX Proxy needs to assign the new Observation Domain values. > > I think it would be possible for a device to receive information from > other devices, process the information and re-report the information as > if it had been observed locally. > > Viewed another way, we could have three IPFIX devices (A, B, C) > reporting to a fourth device (D) as so: > > +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ > | device A | | device B | | device C | > +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ > | | | > +---------------+---------------+ > | > +----------+ > | device D | > +----------+ > > > I believe device D could report a new observation domain as so: > > > +----------------------------------------------+ > | | > | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | > | | device A | | device B | | device C | | > | +----------+ +----------+ +----------+ | > | | > | device D | > +----------------------------------------------+ > > > In this case, device D would use its own Observation Domain IDs and not > have to report OD ID 0. > I can consider as you mentioned. I think that setting ODID 0 is exactly not wrong according to IPFIX protocol draft, as follows. The Observation Domain ID SHOULD be 0 when no specific Observation Domain ID is relevant for the entire IPFIX Message. For example, when exporting the Exporting Process Statistics, or in case of hierarchy of Collector when aggregated data records are exported. It might depend on the policy of device D. > > >> I think any of the metering sub-processes should be able to send data to > >> the storing process. Also, the Exporting process may send data there too > >> (consider Brian's file draft). Finally, there should be a route *out* of > >> the storing process - either to the outside, and/or to the Metering > >> Process, and/or to the Exporting Process. > >> > > > > Good idea. Roughly, I can image following figure. > > > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > | IPFIX Mediator | > > | .----------. .---------. | > > | | | .-------------------------------. | | | > > | |Collecting| | Metering Process | |Exporting| | > > | |Process | |.-------. .-------. .-------.| |Process | | > > | | |--->sub |-->sub |->|sub |-->| | | > > IPFIX | ||process| |process| |process|| | IPFIX > > --> | |.->|#1 | |#2 | |#3 || | |--> > > | | || |'-------' '-------' '-------'| | | | > > | | || '----|----------|----------|----' | | | > > | | || | | | | | | > > | | || .--\/---------\/---------\/--. | | | > > | | |'---| Storing Process |<--| | | > > | | |--->| |-->| | | > > | | | '----------------------------' | | | > > | | |------------------------------------>| | | > > | '----------' '---------' | > > +--------------------------------------------------------------+ > > Yes, this is exactly what I had in mind. > I will add above figure. > > >>> 3.2.2. Aggregation Process > >> > >> As a general question, is it valid to aggregate fields which were not > >> originally key fields? > > > > I think that the aggregate key field does not depend on the original key > > fields. > > For sure it's possible - even if statistically it might not make any sense. > > Please let me know in what kind of case it does not make any sense. > >>> 4.6. Reporting of Exporter Information > >>> > >>> Reporting of Exporter Information, such as Exporter IP address, is > >> Surely that's a loss of privacy? > > > > It is depends on the role of IPFIX Mediator. > > If it is IPFIX Firewall or IPFIX Proxy, exporting Exporter IP address > > becomes to grow the vulnerability. > > On the other hand, if it is other nodes, such as concentrator, Exporter > > IP address is important information for traffic analysis, such as traffic > > engineering. > > > > In case of making traffic matrix, Exporter IP address can indicate the > > ingress router of network domain. > > Very true. So it's worth indicating this in the draft. > Yes. > > > >>> 5.4. Distribution of Flow Records > >>> > >>> An IPFIX Mediator distributes Flow Records based on Flow Record > >>> content. This function enables load balancing of Collector and > >>> sorting Flow Records without extra Collector functions. If the Flow > >>> Records are used as accounting information, this solution is useful. > >> > >> It's unclear to me what this means. > > > > Surely, it is too short explanation. For example, if an IPFIX Mediator > > distributes Flow Records on the basis of input IF indexes which > > indicates customer, measuring total traffic volume by each Collector can > > indicate each customer's accounting information. > > I see how this could work if the mediator knows which interface connects > to which customer or it's able to tell the collector by some means. > Yes. > > On careful thought, it is better that this sentence is omitted. > > Oh? > This sentence is not consistent with the meaning of the paragraph. I will improve the paragraph. > > >>> When we disclose traffic information to each customer, security or > >> > >> "we"? -> The mediator, perhaps? > > > > I was confused how to use "we". I mean it is network service provider. > > The Mediator is preferable. > > Sometimes people write "I" or "we" instead of the device, eg "I will > export" -> no, you personally won't export anything. Your device will > export... > Yes. Thank you. > > >>> Session#b Data Record: > >>> Field Count = 7 > >>> Scope Count = 1 > >>> templateId = XXX > >>> exporterIPv4Address = 1.1.1.1 > >>> collectorIPv4Address = 2.2.2.2 > >>> collectorTransportProtocol = 16 > >>> exporterTransportPort = 10 > >>> collectorTransportPort = 20 > >>> observationDomainId = 10 > >> > >> Could you use real-world values in the examples here and below? > > > > Is it preferable using private address? > > You could use 10. or 192. addresses. > > > Surely, the destination port number should be 4739. > > Exactly. And also real looking exporterTransportPort, > observationDomainId and so on. > OK. > Thanks. > -- > Paul Aitken > Cisco Systems Ltd, Edinburgh, Scotland. > --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 31 13:25:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvSr-0006x3-5n; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:24:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvSq-0006ww-8z for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:24:56 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvSo-0008DQ-Jx for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:24:56 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6VHOrhq034230; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 02:24:54 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:24:54 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <46AEFC3B.1090505@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> <46AEFC3B.1090505@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Message-Id: <20070801021823.C848.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:24:54 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Gerhard, I understood what you thought. The description of each functions, aggregation, anonymization and filtering might be better to move to other drafts. I would like to know other IPFIX members comments about this approach. To prevent from being misunderstood, I do not intend to restrict these functions in mediator. Even if the IPFIX mediator draft describes the several functions, I think that it is hard to say that they are restricted in only mediator functions. First of all, the concept of flow includes the aggregated Flow and fine grained Flow. It implies the metering process of the original exporter covers the aggregation function. And also, the filtering function of Flow Records seems to be covered by the process of the original Exporter according to IPFIX architecture draft figure 6. Regards, Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:09:15 +0200 Gerhard Muenz wrote: > > Kobayashi, Paul, all, > > Paul Aitken wrote: > > Kobayashi-san, > > > > > >>>> The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > >>>> very broad. > >>> > >>> This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide > >>> the mediator into several separate and more general drafts which > >>> vendors could implement in a single product? > >> > >> Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? > >> > >> - IPFIX concentrator > >> - IPFIX proxy > >> - IPFIX firewall > >> - IPFIX distributor It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. > >> My draft has not > >> described enough, yet. > >> ... > >> > >> I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. > >> > >> Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. > > > > Exactly, instead of covering such a broad scope in one draft. However, > > it's only one possible approach. > > IPFIX concentrator, IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall, IPFIX distributor etc., > do we really need to distinguish between this whole bunch of new devices? > > I think these expressions reflect more the role or function of a > mediator within a given network. > > The question is also, if operators really need all of these new > functionalities, or if we talk about potentially useful things that will > never be used in practice. > > >> But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become > >> similar description. Other things could be common parts. > >> I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. > >> Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX > >> Mediators might be necessary for common parts. > > > > True. > > > > > >> Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft > >> and the Flow Mediation draft. > >> > >> And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the > >> granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the > >> content of Flow Records, such as modification. > >> > >> But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? > > > > I had hoped some other IPFIX-ers would comment. > > I see the following two aspects: > > 1) *Relaying and multiplexing of IPFIX transport sessions* without > changing or filtering the data. This is currently called "protocol > mediation". If this function is really requested by operators, there are > some issues to be solved, like: > - how to translate knowledge about the original observation domain into > option data? > - how to convert relative timestamps? > - how to do the template management, especially in case of multiplexing? > > 2) *Filtering, anonymization and aggregation* of measurement data. > This is currently called "flow mediation", yet I think that it should > not be restricted to flow data, and also not be restricted to mediators. > The issues here are mostly related to the reporting of what is going on > in the Metering Process, i.e. what kind of filtering, what kind of > anonymization, what kind of aggregation etc. takes place. > I think that all these functions are not specific to the Mediator, i.e. > they can also be implemented in a usual exporter. So I would not cover > them in a mediator draft, but in a more generic draft (or several > problem-specific ones) describing advanced functions within the Metering > Process and how to report them. > > Regards, > Gerhard > > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M$B".(Bz > Computer Networks and Internet > Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science > University of Tuebingen > Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany > Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 > E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Tue Jul 31 13:25:01 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvSr-0006x3-5n; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:24:57 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvSq-0006ww-8z for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:24:56 -0400 Received: from mail.nttv6.net ([2001:fa8::25]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFvSo-0008DQ-Jx for ipfix@ietf.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 13:24:56 -0400 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]) by mail.nttv6.net (8.14.1/8.14.1) with ESMTP id l6VHOrhq034230; Wed, 1 Aug 2007 02:24:54 +0900 (JST) (envelope-from akoba@nttv6.net) Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:24:54 +0900 From: kobayashi atsushi To: Gerhard Muenz Subject: Re: [IPFIX] *Proposed* new work items, take two In-Reply-To: <46AEFC3B.1090505@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> References: <46AE4984.3050109@cisco.com> <46AEFC3B.1090505@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de> Message-Id: <20070801021823.C848.AKOBA@nttv6.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-2022-JP" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Becky! ver. 2.30.02 [ja] X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-3.0 (mail.nttv6.net [192.68.245.115]); Wed, 01 Aug 2007 02:24:54 +0900 (JST) X-Spam-Score: -0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2beba50d0fcdeee5f091c59f204d4365 Cc: ipfix@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ipfix@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IPFIX WG discussion list List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ipfix-bounces@ietf.org Hi Gerhard, I understood what you thought. The description of each functions, aggregation, anonymization and filtering might be better to move to other drafts. I would like to know other IPFIX members comments about this approach. To prevent from being misunderstood, I do not intend to restrict these functions in mediator. Even if the IPFIX mediator draft describes the several functions, I think that it is hard to say that they are restricted in only mediator functions. First of all, the concept of flow includes the aggregated Flow and fine grained Flow. It implies the metering process of the original exporter covers the aggregation function. And also, the filtering function of Flow Records seems to be covered by the process of the original Exporter according to IPFIX architecture draft figure 6. Regards, Atsushi KOBAYASHI On Tue, 31 Jul 2007 11:09:15 +0200 Gerhard Muenz wrote: > > Kobayashi, Paul, all, > > Paul Aitken wrote: > > Kobayashi-san, > > > > > >>>> The aggregation draft is very specific, while your mediator draft is > >>>> very broad. > >>> > >>> This is a good point. I wonder whether it would be better to divide > >>> the mediator into several separate and more general drafts which > >>> vendors could implement in a single product? > >> > >> Do you mean my draft should be separated into each device, as follows? > >> > >> - IPFIX concentrator > >> - IPFIX proxy > >> - IPFIX firewall > >> - IPFIX distributor It distributes Flow Records to several collectors. > >> My draft has not > >> described enough, yet. > >> ... > >> > >> I can't name the flow mediation device that modifies the Flow Records. > >> > >> Surely, making up the drafts of each device is one of approaches. > > > > Exactly, instead of covering such a broad scope in one draft. However, > > it's only one possible approach. > > IPFIX concentrator, IPFIX proxy, IPFIX firewall, IPFIX distributor etc., > do we really need to distinguish between this whole bunch of new devices? > > I think these expressions reflect more the role or function of a > mediator within a given network. > > The question is also, if operators really need all of these new > functionalities, or if we talk about potentially useful things that will > never be used in practice. > > >> But, IPFIX protocol considerations and internal component might become > >> similar description. Other things could be common parts. > >> I think that making up the document of similar devices might be unhappy. > >> Even if becoming the separated drafts, the overview draft of IPFIX > >> Mediators might be necessary for common parts. > > > > True. > > > > > >> Roughly, it could be separated into the IPFIX protocol Mediation draft > >> and the Flow Mediation draft. > >> > >> And also, the Flow Mediation could be separated into changing the > >> granularity of Flow, such as filtering and aggregation, and changing the > >> content of Flow Records, such as modification. > >> > >> But yet, should my draft be separated into some devices? > > > > I had hoped some other IPFIX-ers would comment. > > I see the following two aspects: > > 1) *Relaying and multiplexing of IPFIX transport sessions* without > changing or filtering the data. This is currently called "protocol > mediation". If this function is really requested by operators, there are > some issues to be solved, like: > - how to translate knowledge about the original observation domain into > option data? > - how to convert relative timestamps? > - how to do the template management, especially in case of multiplexing? > > 2) *Filtering, anonymization and aggregation* of measurement data. > This is currently called "flow mediation", yet I think that it should > not be restricted to flow data, and also not be restricted to mediators. > The issues here are mostly related to the reporting of what is going on > in the Metering Process, i.e. what kind of filtering, what kind of > anonymization, what kind of aggregation etc. takes place. > I think that all these functions are not specific to the Mediator, i.e. > they can also be implemented in a usual exporter. So I would not cover > them in a mediator draft, but in a more generic draft (or several > problem-specific ones) describing advanced functions within the Metering > Process and how to report them. > > Regards, > Gerhard > > > -- > Dipl.-Ing. Gerhard M$B".(Bz > Computer Networks and Internet > Wilhelm Schickard Institute for Computer Science > University of Tuebingen > Sand 13 (Room B309), D-72076 Tuebingen, Germany > Phone: +49 7071 29-70534 Fax: +49 7071 29-5220 > E-mail: muenz@informatik.uni-tuebingen.de > WWW: http://net.informatik.uni-tuebingen.de/~muenz --- Atsushi KOBAYASHI NTT Information Sharing Platform Lab. tel:+81-(0)422-59-3978 fax:+81-(0)422-59-5637 _______________________________________________ IPFIX mailing list IPFIX@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipfix From sygbcbarrickboh@bcbarrick.com Tue Jul 31 16:00:24 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFxtI-0002hi-Mt; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:00:24 -0400 Received: from abrb31.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.8.95.31]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IFxtG-00044F-In; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 16:00:24 -0400 Received: from [83.8.95.31] by bcbarrick.com; Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:00:23 -0100 Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 20:00:23 -0100 From: "Brittney Grimes" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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