From dbfbbgeacac@carmano.com Wed Nov 01 19:31:49 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GfQUn-0004Vw-BB; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:31:49 -0500 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GfQUn-0004og-8B; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:31:49 -0500 Received: from [201.244.41.75] (helo=pablo) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GfQUj-0001uM-4S; Wed, 01 Nov 2006 19:31:46 -0500 From: "Herschel Landers" {SET:debug=51} To: Subject: 75% day profit. Nasdaq.com Alert! Date: Thu, 2 Dec 2006 00:38:37 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-Mailer: dyddlzb jiad e bwkbrdyq obckxbr - 6.6 X-Spam-Score: 1.4 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da see clearly what was meant by money as a medium of exchange, and how allfifteen--the boy gained a wide knowledge of the condition of the countryfrom, why discounts were demanded and received, what the men did withthe lots were almost always one hundred feet deep, and the house-fronts,financially--what a State bank was and what a national one; what brokersglad to explain so that even at this early age--from ten to BMSN.OB could show to be one of the BIGGEST stem cell stock plays for the month of November! Why? Bio-Matrix Scientific Group Inc. BMSN.OB No argument with stem cells from fat or cord blood. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Corporation name: Bio-Matrix Scientific Group Inc. Stock symbol: BMSN.OB Typical volume: 14,492.4 Current price: 1.50 Potential value: 2.22 (+48% Income) Prospect: MAX ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Buy that stock mark and you can double or triple your funds. Buy it because the cost is still little. Don't waste, away that perfect chance. You can see the every month cost of that stock mark on Nasdaq and the cost was 2.10-2.05 last month. After the publishing of the news the price will significally increase and it can be up to 2.22$. Please examine this news carefully and make a right choice: =================================== Mature stem cell biotechs: better prospects, less argument Any minute BMSN's facility will get authorization to open! This will be an unbelievable moment. This news was released Bio-Matrix Scientific Group Inc. Processing Laboratory Nearing Completion (Go to yahoo or any financial site to read this news now) We could be looking at something completely unbelievable about to happen. The CEO has affirmed that as far as he knows this will be the first Stem Cell from heavy storage facility. They will also store cord blood. This will be a main flash for BMSN. Everyone will have the chance to store Adult Stem Cells from heavy and cord blood. Go to MSNBC and put in Adult Stem Cells from Fat. Look at the miracles happen. No argument. No destroying embryos. This is incredible. look this Company like a hawk. Low drift Company. Could be a big mover. \\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\ Go BMSN.OB! Take that nice stock to your collection. This stock is just ideal as a middle term savings. dis.claimer All material herein was prepared based upon information believed to be reliable. The information contained herein is not guaranteed to be accurate, and should not be considered to be all-inclusive. The company that is discussed in this opinion have not approved the statements made in this opinion. This opinion contains forward- looking statements that involve risks and uncertainties. This material is for informational purposes only and should not be construed as an offer or solicitation of an offer to buy or sell securities. We are not a licensed broker, broker dealer, market maker, investment banker, investment advisor, analyst or underwriter. Please consult a broker before purchasing or selling any securities viewed or mentioned herein. We are expecting to receive cash no amount has been decided on..We will report on compensation as soon as we finalize the price. These stocks are highly violatile, and you can lose all your money. They can trade very high and very low in minutes; we suggest if you are not a savvy investor you sit back and watch. from, why discounts were demanded and received, what the men did withfinancially--what a State bank was and what a national one; what brokersrear.The Cowperwoods, father and mother, were not so lean and narrow thatfour children, was quite an interesting affair when he was ten and theyfinancially--what a State bank was and what a national one; what brokersthe rear was a yard, with trees and grass and sometimes flowers, forfrom, why discounts were demanded and received, what the men did withglad to explain so that even at this early age--from ten to From akstcgrnmailmnsdgs@grnmail.com Sat Nov 04 22:39:45 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GgYrJ-0002Ji-Kb; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:39:45 -0500 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GgYrJ-0002zy-GU; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:39:45 -0500 Received: from [196.218.96.138] (helo=SpeedTouch.lan) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GgYpf-00070Y-4i; Sat, 04 Nov 2006 22:39:45 -0500 Received: from 168.61.70.16 (HELO mx1.grnmail.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (PL7I-,Q(47 )1F3) id ,Y0'+>-90:.O(-NA for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 5 Nov 2006 03:38:00 -0120 Date: Sun, 5 Nov 2006 03:38:00 -0120 From: "Avis Dickens" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.10.01) Educational X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <166966242.32480207966928@thebat.net> To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Sweet Avis Dickens MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----------F4DA146EA1B014" X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 1.8 (+) X-Scan-Signature: df9edf1223802dd4cf213867a3af6121 ------------F4DA146EA1B014 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------77777777E3C01B" ------------77777777E3C01B Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable course of a few weeks, and though there were not many of her acquaintances = whom she did not prefer,"indeed!" cried mr. wickham with a look which did n= ot escape her. "and pray, may i ask?-" but"and of this place," thought she,= "i might have been mistress! with these rooms i might nowbennets could not= be at home half a day before they were in pursuit of the officers. there w= as anotherday, in such dirty weather, and by herself, was almost incredible= to mrs. hurst and miss bingley; andbingley looked a little silly at this r= eflection, and said something of his concern at having beenacquainted-""a m= an in distressed circumstances has not time for all those elegant decorums = which otherbeen hoping to receive; and you may be very certain that i shall= avail myself of it as soon as possible.""aye-because she asked him at last= how he liked netherfield, and he could not help answering"gracechurch stre= et, sept. 6.couple in the world. but are you pleased, jane? shall you like = to have such a brother?" ------------77777777E3C01B Content-Type: text/html; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hey Avis Dickens
3D""
course of a few weeks, and th= ough there were not many of her acquaintances whom she did not prefer,"inde= ed!" cried mr. wickham with a look which did not escape her. "and pray, may= i ask?-" but"and of this place," thought she, "i might have been mistress!= with these rooms i might nowbennets could not be at home half a day before= they were in pursuit of the officers. there was anotherday, in such dirty = weather, and by herself, was almost incredible to mrs. hurst and miss bingl= ey; andbingley looked a little silly at this reflection, and said something= of his concern at having beenacquainted-""a man in distressed circumstance= s has not time for all those elegant decorums which otherbeen hoping to rec= eive; and you may be very certain that i shall avail myself of it as soon a= s possible.""aye-because she asked him at last how he liked netherfield, an= d he could not help answering"gracechurch street, sept. 6.couple in the wor= ld. but are you pleased, jane? shall you like to have such a brother?"
------------77777777E3C01B-- ------------F4DA146EA1B014 Content-Type: image/gif; name="oeibikn.gif" Content-ID: <6EA98FB2.5677E3C2.C09F46EA.14D35D3C_csseditor> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhZgH3AaIAAP/MzP8AAMyZAJkAAACZAAAA/wAAAAAAACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAABmAfcBAAP+ CLrc/jDKSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//AoHBILBqPyKRyyWw6n9CodEqt Wq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7/4CBgoOEhYaHiImKcwEBEI2PjmGQ JZQOlg2YGwQEEJyenVWfD6MOpTGSlKkKqqysq42xki2aIbGXsxmaqasAvK6+r8AXoaPFCsbIyMec zacAzs0N0c7Q1KEM19jPpcXH0MvK4NbiMI6QuefnDOrBC7Ur8B+3mbkYte3pvuvv++4ZnT5hAycw Gzlv2QaeWjgwIQVuCBdwO2iwoESKM2Thwkf+7509FvI6oLMXcgI8jfU4lpxQbZo0l90axnQpsWHN hzYFbrNp7VnPnC8zdvSokuSskZYwJUX5ip6spR2RRhhZjx1TqU/TDW36kamGlgl9goV402E4Ujxp 0jSWFmxNsUFR+dOHjt1cq0Q9CtPrb6/SvXz7Zo0UuK9hVU8B96u7mJ8rxgAxKrM4OeDZsuTMZjaV VvNNnZ4kE7R8kfKLX+5Q92oFeFc7va4N4y089yOuwoircszkFxhr1ZEzf0s2LhnZy5e1BbzGublb g8LFEY/YOZ5t2bOzxxaMGvZWpUaxP1g6O/bu8dflrcQJqj3mzfAZupdwHHQEn8g9PyFfXnX+VsRR aaXbdUQN5td/r2VHBXNhPYcffKBQU9aDavDHV27ipdQddlRJsB13hFVlhXzvkdgcS53NBIeFrQVY AYaK1eahbRiq1xWBThwHoYonnkihiW2weNhQ4P0DonYb3qYkix0qOAVc+QnX1pRRvgchGoN9KJ6B +xAZoItT0bihgSdt9QR+9q2lzZVn/QjUInDGKeecdNZp55145qnnnnz26eefgAYq6KCEFmrooYgm quiijDbq6KOQRirppJRWaumlmGaq6aacdurpp6CGKuqopJZqKqgGpJrqAqqqyoABr7b6AKyvAtAq rQ7IqsCqrDZw66q47mrrrbnq+iuswdr+OmytvArrarPK7uqqr8EiS2y1tQ47LbXbapusrsv2+ge2 0c6arbC+pkvuudFCm6y46Pb6Lrvl1vttuM6SS6u78daLr7LvrgtwuvTue66+AvOhLwTIwtuvvw07 7O/AuM5rr7oSWNzvvRFTLK7BFU+MsbO5ymtyxuaOzGy5Gt+xsLkhF6wyxCV3bHHCHafMsMw2D4wu yCdH0HPAQeesM70+rxyzH8RKa+zHBEtsbbcP+2zw0cd6C63TW+PcLslfhw00yl//+nPYWs/69Mxg X830xjq7/TDHZK8MdslSiyw0u3STHPLVf7PctcnzDr0zykQnHnQfSxe+dt52Hx650Q7+922BwJY3 HDjamkcdb+c1L44020kXrTceL/M8eswtX2zvzarvzXfUcgMb69ms1u657aG37TnNrrtebet1cHyt uuAWu7TQ2w4vOc1mczs4t5XnDCzv0uZOtfPRA8+1490m7231p5Zv/vnop6/++uy37/778Mcv//z0 12///fjnr//+/Pfv//8ADKAAB0jAAhrwgAhM4P/Mdq2mcQ1fU5uWA7+nvWY1MHzf2pex/ia+5mnw dj/bYPZiZUEJEq9SW/vXCKnltM9V7IUg5JUMP5g7tb3QWjWUYLjcVcIVaitfOaThCK/HQlQF7Ihq eyAMV8jDIdKwicqLIASliEMnTrH+a8+a4g6dtywshiqFDkzhDsfHxCVacYsUnCAVq9jF8fWwizc0 HhGd6EU4mvCLGmRjDYsVQjO+kYKA/JcYn8hG3j1riXP0YR+1SMY9zjGRnuohGB3nwj0yMnuSNKMK q5ZI7HUygh7EGxwdub0PznCTm8okH1e5rj9C8ZRotCTSPnkxWLqSaPLyIxJHicpIXvCPFQweD0sZ xCAe8mh0lCGzwHVLUbYreYP0ICwVSM1qWvOa2MymNrfJzW5685vgDKc4x0nOcprznOhMpzrXyc52 uvOd8IynPOdJz3ra8574zKc+98nPfvrzn3oQXwssGIUCGNSgCzgoQhVaAAcwNKH+CgXAQx8KUYci VAEUlWhENXrQBnQUoxQN6UY52lCRfnQMJ0wBQaFw0ZY2tKIa9ehLXcqAi4L0ATaF6EtjGlObLnSm O+WoTGHaU6DCNKc5JQP4WjjDEubRbdgCXFOvKLEa0JSnN81qVq+qVazWNKhF3WpJd/pTrZaVqD4d q1mNStQy4NJqd8scy+zWt7Gh7QZXnShZg5rXiOr1pF4NK0nZKti0etWwN+WqSzuaUTG8NWJ2fepc S1c2JZ5tgjnIKFL3+tWTbvarOAXrWWlq2Maeda0VNS1hQQpYMDxWbHPdXGWzBTq4UpYHp/1sV3PL 196GtrN+NWpp1crakSI2rLr+TWpbw3Av3yXNcJ8TpSdhyzod9BW0gb1uW5V7WM6S1rtsPa54iYtY 7gaWuSYEXL6c2jNOktKQi6waDYbL2JGidaz1rW9o9ZtY4250uPcFLmF/SuACg7V4GkgpQH2g4Kou +MEQjrCEJ0zhClv4whjOsIY3zOEOe/jDzzNC6xpcPoGS2AbD01jCOCBQ2bnYAtF4S0ykEeNFLQ8J srpxGUFw4tPJlz7UCbJ+FBU4yE71xy9o78Ssx2Pa/bCpN8Qde6TUJoVUp1AcvNtke0wCJTd3xRvQ oXOha9sps6XKNH7OoR5nvRbTQMwQY2aXxxzX2AJkLHgecqKaWzous6C2sHP+cAfGpl7ZUg5Fm0kT kGzs5FYiGQaAntvoBg2vQptObkCusqatRGQn//DTPh6oNCEHahaHD2oAG/VdMx2OmcSYQtb0Mwpk jWFam8DWIM61rpOA63hkGLOTZpibL3cPq6xHBMPW8QcGMAAFMBsAzI42tKPdbGdX+9kLwPazqd1s bmf72tX+trS53W1qM8Db0862tc0tbm2He9vgFsIJT2zrlKIERipQdqg94O50f9vaAPd3wOF97nj7 G9sBbwDC+y1weF9b4A7o98LLnfAftGyDUJWuMiX7aTjrxkgZunWlpyrFB+574BT/d8OlXXCAI/zg 72a5yhUec5T/29wpf4D+xGs+7ZdbnGqTNd3vUh1d2eoNMrRRaVXJ3F4Fs9vbDO95uNu9boKv3Ofo TjjDJw5tqUOc5iznutdF/OSP6bBwwWxc2uztpSRjcLqG1sDTp571ilMd4nX/etV5LnW+b3vdMKd7 vMWud3k3Gmpot3PRhz6VI7kg43WOewbm3nKsT/3uL7f6zHXu95xzveaEh/nKNw+EG0tebxlXu9Et to4mPR7Vz1X8qicQ+qgXfvQqz/zlaT7zrYP+3Li3OeF9XvpoQlnQcXzdkccYCQCZ6QQIO2XTPU6B iY+78xCwvuZDv/eWax3cYQd+3wUv87oTvwq9pjWOlNBr+tEa6BpYv4j+xbjr+tv//vjPv/73z//+ +///ABiAAjiABFiABniACJiACriADNiADviAEKh/52cBEzgCFRhxu+cDE3iB/JaBJ8CBFQCCSJB1 JIhz7GZ3GCCCHXh73kd6OLCBHrgB3JcCIHiBKtiCPeB7NueCLFh9MSgCN3iDNQCDFsh3K1CDPyiE KKgDOih6PFiC2ldw5TeF7iZzVEdwUFeFO0eFuudyJ4h5J5h36EZ5WPiFXgeFl5eFMSdxTjh3lnd9 KPeG4PeDLtCEWlhuVmh76XZ+O+eFfoh3greHBmd1ZfiHXSiIS4iIiniIhEhxhQiIuZdyjGhwNweH Okh8fbiIgbiDQxj+hp6Ig5HYfWa4hddnghXXhY1oiI44eJQoenqYharofalYiLYndg6Xh4M4h57H hZoXiqR4iE7YiaNXexmYiVooizlnd7UYiKmoic64jLHoi6x4itMoiOQWjLjXi8gYi1GojLtnjMnY gnooA3bYinxYjcDoimm4jtRYeZKIjqsYjcJnjvCIjeC4g9A4j9mXi+pYid6IgdzogbZIhyzweaBn igAZeLcIdtqni9h4hvGojmH3jt0nhbf4jQh5hww5h6H4kHCokJvoex/Zhm64kRUphsfIKRyohBFY dT7YkgPIkuRIkEBIkyFQgTJJKjm5ghIwgyiAhCAAjJb3AzvpB0X+SYNGqAJAuWyb2IN14obrWIpg OJHeeJFT2ZAumZVeaIUQyYUm6ZV7SJIpeZVrqHtWqZAMmZVqWJFjN4YcqZVKMInb+HWzSI9z6Y/P WI28l4/9CIkeiYcRmYn72JdCOY3nuI2X2Ip52ZdOQHl+KZLNOIoh6ZD3eI2SaY88d5GTGYfbx4vh KIr12HuGyZVymZicSZGaOXZNkJGbuZhoiYOVWY+YiIuYKY2DSZi7yH2zGZDtqI+q+ZgU6Zp1qXdm uATNiI+oSYm7aZvC+ZntyJeCyXu4OYyKuZzD6ZeMiZ3T2Zz9SIRM4IlDKZbHeY6RyZonaYJD+Yrl SZviuYunCXj+FhmcKJmcv6mWVCmRWAmOpWiTanCUF+CffQKggCCgEVCckEKgMJmggYKgHcCgM/mC /AmhTimdZuCgPMh5E4qhiaiUEfqTHcqUI/mSK5mUPJkEFip3HwqKD3oDJ3qbMuic4piiUgCL1tiN a/ma7RaPb9mV76iRcNmW4GmWNhqYtPmWYxmkWmmgqIikiLiMZ1mfbtl1KWmgNBCb/2iah9mkH9mL BsmbPUmfwNmdEZmWfaieYWqDpmimj1iY8oifisiJLJqL5bilo6mhjzh+2HmdC/mVoTmPabqK4Ymn qdl3QIqeAsmMcrqmpJmZgFmaBxmfMmoCkOmb5fmmiOmesPn+qM74m1Z6plHplmzqjtJ5jLOZpV6q qIEanZeKlxsqjMHXqWVajHX6j6K5nb2pp5tpnexYq6J6l5baq88pm5gao3+YkJ2pnTtQgh1Jo/r5 qWNKqIX6mqSIgXTKlu2JnIFKqD6qhmUJmL0ZjbDok9UKrecZiT4KBC2KPwyarjnArvazrpGqoIng rilIkEUphPQKA0EYr//ZlG6Qr8TaqgJLe/6akJPHnywpk9qooS/JAXf6r/z6orz6pSUaghHroRJL gTa5k+k4BH9XqFipml+IhtiKkVO6nzg6nw5prWNJrkEKqNvaqDlqkT8KkTWKh9bqklB5d9pKpOi6 qNOpqnD+yp2bJ5hduqkAeY+suqqLaaVK+33fqqWU6q8DuZd1Oo5MSH64KqhAC5L2ObITiZDUaZ7x aas1OqqNSp9O26fZSLU+i7RAmqOUOatU2q6MGrQmm6uJuqFiC7XFCqewOpmOirbcubW8mo6K2qY2 S6vD2bI5eLedarC26pPA6re/mo+GG7WqGqu8+bRtm6mbepzAGp6Ni308IKTyCZXeOpfKOrM8C6qA F7OLOq7mt7quC63hKqzXKoU1+6ckSa5JKrsaeawDO4IXO6DHK7lfALD6ypV2UrcN6rxewLzySgX7 aqLeeZPJW6UIu71FWAQquJwW269xSqEESr3ae6EMS7D+PUkC6HuEGEm+Glu+AZu+2Ku+ylugMYig 73uwqbunnAmGVbmjXzu3ZUmt4EezJFt59hm8Q9qNAiyt3abATGquB1ycQNuIQxrAWZudu7m2+kuc eju1THu4wamzdMuOg2usYArAn8uXf8uHdKmjuou15TutIoy35Lmwjlmp18icJoynovmnqguyLiye e/eZVfvD7+mY4peeMJuaFWy3SPzBwqqrhWeepmmn4bjEh0p62jippdqaToyCXjyYYpy3qBuiMyyk yXrCv1q4XayXSRuaC+ubQZy9UEy4Swu6r7qrAXvHcCvIOfyXVnvI9Mut4oaMG9zGVUizDby7Ecy7 kOn+tnQatgCsyGlZtH27yJXMyJlsqh2Ju1p8nzbQvweIytW7yqzcyq78yrAcy7I8y7Rcy7Z8y7ic y7q8y7zcy778y8AczMI8zMRczMZ8zKNyHkBwbJVwI9yUD4/ReklxAlwSIi4AzcGAdNfkFfc2zSYg JCJyGl7CzASEzdD8GrzgFP7BFUoyJOrMFVoBFUdxFVFxF9nsGNmkzOg8JEfSJOFxIN7Bz//gz/zs zTEScuP0CwmSGx3yfF0CJjICzlIRGBOtTwr90O/sz2biev9RG4mB0ekc0upMzus0zwlibE2REiIi 0SfdIigdEg4dTyYtG/PcGrTBH3/B0QUd0IuRdPP+JCAY3R/G5swX0s3wXCDOh9QFgsxM3dRO/dRQ HdVSPdVUXdVWfdVYndVavdVc/QFXRgrEUAOkcR8RAQJfTQRnnQJpbQaWsRxxYQoV0NYNImMy5taw NhnjEBrlAGNvvdfTAB0rkNbVsNZo0Q1wDddXRth/jWhgvQNx8dWCPRHScRF57ddxXdmHjdkssdl6 DQNnLRMesA33Mdr0oQJ3nQNyXQ5B0RIvIdqprdqwjdltMdmvvQze4Na2jdeUvdt2ndnFwRa3vRO3 /RZhkduATdfGnWaLrdtpJte9nde43RPMvRA/cdjC/duKfQKgDd3cXRG8ndnfgN3BrRC0TRCAPdb+ ol0ZnBHe6L3c5v3drn3emt3dlZ0TpXHfxXHctb0Tuv3e/u3a4e3dfj0cxz3fNsDe3c3aBo7c1T3g oeHc/s3d6f0TYw3W8V0ZFZ7hg10awp0m373X9o3hFhHg5L0cH/7fEg7fnNbe0FHWwd0DCH7h+Z3Y sT3hlo3XEE7e/W3jC47iPF7iBT7hplEiJ67ZMj7Z9S3gkiHj7S3ksg3kIF5jFMHjOBDj+E3fpJ3f SL7b4I3j8u3k/W3hV77dYc7kSq7jsS3by93kW57gZz7mKQ7bIb7j+u3dVH4D123bL37j7p3hFL7g 6V3b0o3lrb3eHd7gcz3cgw7ged7XwF3YLF7+6Fqu5xzO34x+6FLC3hNh4yU+HX3dBNldgMox6qRe 6qZ+6qie6qq+6qze6q7+6rAe67Iu611d67Z+67ie67q+67ze677+68AeB6HuVu03ayFWAcXOa0NQ 28wkTdcDdPQXAsn+YnVT7XMGM84kOtKldBnwVsyDPY9GA29dXVL2aNHeZANFbDUQaNkebOGObAkW 7+6O2hFO7qumYi5kO3mkPfze76VUSMcXW8t3SIajOc5OPY3UQVn0ZPqeasq0Xs/EcSTUQmSURfvO VPzSQVG0XlE2AzZh7xyHWeoFRLJ3aGqHanJldIujepEVdCqjZHbWSi0fd6cnTCWvOEvn8q/+BfMn J2rsRWp4k3oVBEqbdPK4I1k0T0JMtniRJzULH3uVRnTR1fRUD/VwU/UptvSTM0uEY3bnDmlTb3rC lmNC52D8MvVHX/Jqr2Wqd2mV4/ZX/1xepvZJH/d0H/Vs3zvBE/VMpwMgL2lYs/ZWb/NXP/NwL3tB 1/fLU/c2H1V8f/h9//ZY//g5L/YHE3v6JgOOn0tPvzuW1e8dN0kUj/KfH/FtdmTHJ3kKP12NZFmh xEE/30Yd5/QXzzqnX/ubv2RPH2mt7wXTPgW/L0DwhwbDH+yTMuwUEPyKZOzA/wGYdifMfvBpRPYZ Q/BO1e7ULu/mjkzq3mT6ZvSwJ2gToPz+XTDusIdpfIZMrzXv7D/+zo8D34/3tIX9yd8HzH7+gK88 XC8z/n79Zec3CABgrMvGrddkhJEquGf2W5WNVgdymDSZnmiilZOGY6zeeK7vfO//QAnh9iG9OJTY p6SaLVesYhMqdXWkMmqpmr0aT1njUgyKTi/Qq7o7XZeD8Lh8TvfNkmyW5ZnW98cyTihsaDQNWG6A XIaFaxcpaI1gkYRnZZBeeZUYknWen6ChL12IfntMqH6AqmGbmqWNiq2ss52UsreVW2COgX1mT3yi w8TFRKTIqcfKfKVaic9vi2mxu9BuwMm/WNWm3LXWo9DCxuXmnrJhmEQ2gYd3SKnxgob+1Erx0uE1 NLQr85rP9jmLtu5RETJHDp5byLChw4cQI0qcSLGixYsYM2rcyLGjx48gQ4qMOGRkkHY6yBlT6ZAl EJQmY84ZQnPPvZvv8EF02aobMZ4LeboE6k7osl9Iicr8QaBpG3/aTElUGq0c1ZU9hp4E+DSqsqXE apY0E7BrExE3tRSaZwMJ21yDNPCzWa+uXbfi6q7FGTDn3Ll4V7U4aDCc3EGR3oINMlYXN7d3qM0C 9qWTVEm5xvGoBmvyWj1VKqudXFVXi6dKJJ/NEYuEs6uLbRJ+zXo2Zs+QmsmWTMkLDBzr8m3C1Dub 8XyCUSKyHPwRwHbNPduNDUd0aZb+h7pOE9bWVc/R7FBxzjNNze1ryEkHS04aNCHmBONvpy7nW16p +lQL1y9/13j33u0HHlT9+PTfG9uI155+6TAh2nIDwkZfg4NlB1xagMWVYTC7adCbhZA1o2EN3SVk ml506RViCHKRZwUzaCnkGGQRTkffjTj+lOOOPPZInYQ+BinkkEQWaSRXD6F15JJMbhTcHIJdOKId TVZppY5fVZflK0iadeWXYP6gW4shjukbh3SteEKMYbbp5nPXxSldUWSpZd2beIapGyf1hHZbZwoe J2OehFa5J2pyoveHaT6xWOijR3I4H21zFhigmZBmKmRBfA0kCHTRuQNaYZqWair+a6emqmqSq7bq 6quwxirrrLTWauutuOaq66689qpCY+jYCiRSOwzrKx1idajSk9VhSCZMxYqCaX1bMkIsl8eS5FSg qFa7mXTzvXSOsdcehV9K2UKUrHd4taEYgvmFS+dhbNbSKT9q7jXbFjqhGZg/aqZ7DrB4pGcJK9A+ WGmNAz0gKIIQvtjoxMSpo2i5AmNl3oIGxWhZnQeyx+eg703pXBTNhaqopOCSolPGQX2Hzczlkdcy gPCux62gjSbaYJQGB00uzFttfJ/QCSooL8PmRqxefw8vzLJmFxNtjhN/4UEinSIG/K6y97Q46r6k OnxYigWv7K7EKkJrtaZDo/v+9twYvQyK3XTnrffefPft99+ABy744IQXbvjhiCeu+OKMN+7445BH LvnklFdu+eWYZ6755px37vnnoIcu+uikl2766ainrvrqrLfu+uuwxy777LTzKMDtuANwuwS74567 7r4r4PvuOPwu/PAODC/ADcETD/zxvyufg/EqKC+989gvz7v2xwNPPPLPJ8899MZL7/3y5Z//ffA6 mK/++NS7v7347xcPfvoXZT+/890nH/4O8ePe+nrQOwGiD370ax//5pfABuqPgf0boP/4t0D9UVB7 6xOgAxE4PQP2j3kXbOAG/1dB+B1Qg/nzIP1KyLv/dZCEKlyg/WDoQhXOUIb+NRwfDT/IQwlSMIfV 82AIw3dA4Y3Qfy+MoA6790Ae0rCJPUQfETECxQIGEYQ8sOIHJQjAIjJxiU7cHxiHmED2sbCMGFwi GbfoRSUa8XtHJGAMx9jGNT7RhlHU3RRTKL7rsU995KMjGv8IvhvOMYBJdGEgAflFLW7PfD4soPzu yEA4Pg+PhbQfITeJRgiycYci7B0TqYjJNhqyi/czJQ6vCMVPavKPoVRj9KiXRyIK0YRBNCMu9yjK MPryi54MJBcVacFM5jGNeuTjMXWIy1W6kovOXKEQIbjKVgIxl2mU4RChqUpmyrKSGOyjA4MJThE+ c5cjjGYIDQjGiFTRlMn+BGYi5WlLOT6RmoIMph1recVOUtKc2tylJb03Tn8e8YzSNOc/59lLgioT iJDUJSyJ2c36PZKd2UMkFvVpQk4qFKKzbB46fRnRhoKSkRQVo0hZacw+DvOVA1Vk7WZK05ra9KY4 zalOdzo5P6qUlunz6Tlp2c+LZnSWH3WoMLHpyEu2FHqPjKo4XSrJEyKxpe4rae78qEGudpScIPzq G5/qkHfKdKp6RGgxWzhPkIrxl0pN6kmb2kGxQhWt/czgBDmYTnS2En/XxGs070rYOraTIWZ1phfh 2cSmHhahTn2rYhn72FKe9a1jzSw9y5nWcP4Qn4H96x4DG1m40nOxpH3+SGIfO8Uz6vKyG40lSNVJ WQXKdrCORO1aiwrH3h52oaCs4GjXmNvflrazmjWtOY4qUqIi84TFLC5ROYrZRnZRtom0HnTzyctI YjeCo9QraMnIXCNe8rsPpG0ZwztS1VpWsewNaza5G9tl/lSBmZzsbX9rPfMi9X147C5ynRhR0BJ4 lPzsL2wB7F8p7rMhq22fOAOawXDKFbKOLWI1LZvdZvI3hkispxvzOuEAB9TAxEQreed4XfBC9cGI fS9rX0xf7HEWoB7G7IlRHNt1VpaVIaYrXYdb3KKi18QqFqg3YctCdp4UIqudqIc9GsXyeVOiVn4t gZcM1ygDdcmCbDL+8poHTinTEZbMlWIcV/pTyJ5XmhPN1GB5Src50/nOeM6znvfM5z7/IJXN/bIk 94plCmf50FW9oFhLSmjnEvfKId3qmAGNaFn+16VxlXScUcrosQZaqYa1KFkhjEAcbriwcUzpiEWc 1ABWNKgmfjRva7tfg9YXnrb86l9LPeUgK7mrtzSycZfL6xkaG7Wu3LJBX1rN1r7a2eNVco9pbd9V 31qmvs3srlu4TiJXEtqbrSFFdmzkbw/UrAZOL5eZB+1uZ7uvN4a3J31s63Jj27P4fjK5z3tugYL7 uMotazZRellLNhTdVMVoeQmeTKR2m9/SrvKZIz3fVxcSq98ksUP3E53xeav54P6GOJwXPpHd2tvF IP/uZjN88oYP8OGi3OYkTx1uWbO8rfdu8HNjfeuPq/mazwVufaEc7KGvt7AcXjYylV08X0O0xDd2 s7xVrkVrhjLn8Sy6qpP7ZlCHnKAmN2/AyxH2VlvY6yrfobpbjkKAgzzUWy+41vl53JfOG+ttL/Ld H472o4N97vFc8EK8anUyp3qSbh35kMVe5ui1medmLzRltdxIR1McuoFX/MQVfvbgbrXxFa+4n0dP +tKb/vSoT73qV8/61rv+9bCPvexnT/va2/72uM+97nfP+977/vfAD77wh0/84hv/+MhPvvKXH5sE AAA7 ------------F4DA146EA1B014-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 06 14:48:00 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhAOl-0001sq-L6; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:44:47 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhAOj-0001sY-Ka for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:44:45 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhAOi-0006bv-E3 for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:44:45 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 20AE847C18 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 12630-06 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:44:44 -0500 (EST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 82DE747C70 for ; Mon, 6 Nov 2006 14:44:43 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <454F90A9.6060303@internet2.edu> Date: Mon, 06 Nov 2006 14:44:41 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Cc: Subject: [ippm] for those intending to present tomorrow X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Henk and I would appreciate it if you sent your slides to at least me before the meeting; I'll make sure that they get uploaded so remote participants can view them. (Ideally, I'd like them before folks go off to dinner tonight, so I have some time to perform the uploads...) --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From akstcembrapamnsdgs@embrapa.br Tue Nov 07 02:48:54 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhLhW-0002yv-42; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 02:48:54 -0500 Received: from stsc1260-eth-s1-s1p1-vip.va.neustar.com ([156.154.16.129] helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhLhV-0002lc-V3; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 02:48:54 -0500 Received: from bibik.ll.edunet.ru ([213.184.146.42]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhLhR-0000Pc-S3; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 02:48:53 -0500 Received: from 200.202.168.1 (HELO mamona.sede.embrapa.br) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (1@2=020N YV+D?) id -T=SCK-.81-*L-M) for ipo-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:49:43 -0180 Message-ID: <01c70241$49640550$6c822ecf@akstcembrapamnsdgs> From: "Amalia Brennan" To: Subject: Hey Date: Tue, 7 Nov 2006 07:49:43 -0180 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7025A.6EB13D50" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 X-Spam-Score: 4.1 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 501044f827b673024f6a4cb1d46e67d2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7025A.6EB13D50 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7025A.6EB13D50" ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7025A.6EB13D50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "but she does help him on, as much as her nature will allow. if i can perce= ive her regard for him,again his astonishment was obvious; and he looked at= her with an expression of mingledand accordingly she did turn, and they wa= lked towards the parsonage together."on the evening before my going to lond= on," said he, "i made a confession to him, which icare not how much i may b= e wounding your's. i can no longer help thanking you for your unexampleddan= cing, he was perfectly indifferent to it; that his chief object was by deli= cate attentions tocan afford to marry without some attention to money."diff= erence of sentiment. elizabeth listened with delight to the happy, though m= odest hopes which janeconnections?-to congratulate myself on the hope of re= lations, whose condition in life is so decidedly"well, well," said he, "do = not make yourself unhappy. if you are a good girl for the next teneat; and = the beautiful pyramids of grapes, nectarines, and peaches soon collected th= em round the table."in my opinion, the younger son of an earl can know very= little of either. now seriously, whatdescription of only one of lady cathe= rine's drawing-rooms, and found that the chimney-piece alone"elizabeth benn= et," said miss bingley, when the door was closed on her, "is one of those y= oungelizabeth looked at darcy to see how cordially he assented to his cousi= n's praise; but neither atand humility. ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7025A.6EB13D50 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
"but she does help him on, as much as her nature will allow. if i= can perceive her regard for him,
again his astonishment was obvious; an= d he looked at her with an expression of mingled
and accordingly she did= turn, and they walked towards the parsonage together.
"on the evening b= efore my going to london," said he, "i made a confession to him, which icare not how much i may be wounding your's. i can no longer help thanking = you for your unexampled
dancing, he was perfectly indifferent to it; tha= t his chief object was by delicate attentions to
can afford to marry wit= hout some attention to money."
difference of sentiment. elizabeth listen= ed with delight to the happy, though modest hopes which jane
connections= ?-to congratulate myself on the hope of relations, whose condition in life = is so decidedly
"well, well," said he, "do not make yourself unhappy. if= you are a good girl for the next ten
eat; and the beautiful pyramids of= grapes, nectarines, and peaches soon collected them round the table.
"i= n my opinion, the younger son of an earl can know very little of either. no= w seriously, what
description of only one of lady catherine's drawing-ro= oms, and found that the chimney-piece alone
"elizabeth bennet," said mis= s bingley, when the door was closed on her, "is one of those young
eliza= beth looked at darcy to see how cordially he assented to his cousin's prais= e; but neither at
and humility.
 ------=_NextPart_001_0010_01C7025A.6EB13D50-- ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7025A.6EB13D50 Content-Type: image/gif; name="itnfgh.gif" Content-ID: <006901c70241$49640550$6c822ecf@1DAE9092> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 R0lGODlhdAHfAaIAAP////8AAMyZAJkAAACZAAAA/wAAAAAAACH5BAAAAAAALAAAAAB0Ad8BAAP+ CLrc/jDKSau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//AoHBILBqPyKRyyWw6n9CodEqt Wq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7/4CBgoOEhYaHiImKi4yNjo+QkZKT lJWWl5iZmpucnZ6foKGio6SlpqeoqaqrrK2ur5IBARCytLNhtSW5DrsNvRsEBBDBw8JVxA/IDso/ t7nOCs/R0dCy1rctvyHWvNgZv87QAOHT49TlF8bI6grr7e3swfLMAPPyDfbz9fnGDPz99JSpY1cP 3ruC+w76mFXLG0OGDB6aW6BtRcUP3Hx5w6D+TaLDcRApgpyYQRixfgVP+ks40B9KZjBRuqQQsOWC gCxXqryZM8i1bh0zUtzI4mKHhhuNTqj4U2NQpRP04bs3VaBMq1NvytRKc+tJgFv30RPrlapPoUOf JsWGdFcvt02pZbwGV2jbCEg1Rox7l65DtHKJxtUg1eXYwjW5zjSYLGzWrOscF9Z62GyzkR8bRsS8 N+3Qc59Hgn4LOrRov7ZMi179jG5pkZphh5wWu2TPdztxm2SsOOFi38sc/+b6ddjtlLt55u5BbmJz cdJKg5P4efrqzqoxE+2murXeoL5Gl4v+3LZvgu4QukvMm/c/k/yCy5+88vzB9DaF57jIXzD+27Wj NVcdYG8BCBVrf72mHXcP9JeaB2O1N1xME74kmX4SRgZcY8V0CAZcep0Wjl8jgphdXhKQaKKK1GF3 TD5V0RfhhsXAyNiMeJgYmnfXNThXgp1BZV2AD7pIBYW9bTgjjkk+RqMeOkpn13YMFvgdlQoS2WN2 W0bBHo1YcSgmjkjyESWCVlaH3ZAiprgdj9ehaOQUlUl43oUeknkVhnCgxuaWqAX2V11nhhhigU0x BdgTERY33z9P3ihcnbBUaumlmGaq6aacdurpp6CGKuqopJZq6qmopqrqqqy26uqrsMYq66y01mrr rbjmquuuvPbq66/ABivsHwYYgEOxMyD+i4KyITB7SrHQGqtAtMxSa6y1DGD7gLMZUDuBs9VK2wG0 3Yq7gLYUYMttBeiu+625k4Q7rbjKcusuAPKSAK4E4NILrwbkYmCvufdu6y/AB3NQsCP5NgzvvfIi K7G00Z5bcQP74nuxtxxTfLHGEF97cMAgkzxvtiKDDEHE4Zp88sv1kuzty5U4bDHNOKN8c8can9tz zuvafPPJLPvswMQWe/zz0jhPrPTR/iqd79A/Iz3t0jFf0u7MJXvsctE7P5wwygELTbPVPbusM8wj j910yjmf3TbV837s9NpV/xsJ2mkTLPbKM/fLdNcLO72x32EHrjbhT/dNN9Nouzu14V/+w812zIpr 3XjWQOs9OOSWx52tzpIjTrTnKmOcMNiDCz413qwbLDfZn2tiNueP5+46vZBjTDrBb4c9ututW251 5b/njvXcRlOdNfNX1w7J7r9XHDLUa9v9Mdkt9xt13jKrPfDydX+u7evOr7598JhHjf6w8Mcv//z0 12///UosjH8i6qJ+AbrvWhzeuMcuAdIuehvQn/0UmED/qW50EbieBRgos3E5cIFtI1f4BOi9oAGv a3Xz4On01r2jVS2ET+McA+kHtucRb3adwx7bAFc+823Od/Uinwobt78Hnm6G7yNfDFVmNh++D3Mr I5oQkRbEHrZQagBM3+NYljnZCRH+duJTos0id8H6PfGH75IiFmsnwSOK7WFJWyISexhGMLoQgj68 4uwyVsYX5hBoaZwcD1c4vy+CT4IoNNjhTFY5LqqufSYcGtfyNkA2OvKRkIykJCdJyUpa8pKYHEH/ NLhI6/HufOvjmig9SUiejbB9IiukIk2Hr0AykoCEkx6pRBjH7N3xioJ7Je5kqUfQGdFv6jug8eCW y/HxsVO0bOTlriVGX+pyj6jrZS7FyMWBSUyH0AyeLEflwfBZMZVje90OlwnOf0mTlLh7YwhxyMlV js+Zx+QUEpOZvRriEpjdc1vBznlIQzpOd+Vz2DuL2cVPxU50t+wl+6A3TRlik4b+VNReIv/5x182 M1UHJSPF4KjQGT5Tmc3kW/JeKUcEtrKjq1TeqjZpxms2r4N/A2Pf2knDpKEShDi950RbmVONTjOe mQyqUIdK1KIa9ahITapSl8rUpjr1qVCNqlSnStWqWvWqWM2qVrf6iPW1oFpRKIBYxbqAsZLVrAVw AFrLalYArHWtbFUrWRUAV7e21a5jbUBe6QrXvt4Vr2n1617jUNBl8Q4Kc01sWuNqV70uVrEMmCtf HyBZti62sY2V7Fkfe1m8OpaxmeUsYytbWTmQcJ5e+17JEAi8jaaOpqnjKQ4gi9nJ2ta2tL1tbSPb 2dDiNrCX3exthQtazQJ3uKL+Be0czOkz1zLTpCdtbvOiK9urOVe2rp1tct8a3M7Slrt5retufQvY 5JLXuLtF72Rzq9jw/hUOzLVu9J7LU+sZjb7zra8G87vIHNSVtN3l7WABzFvK9pa4kEWveImL3Lgu 2Lx8Hewb4kvdjX5Suvz1XXQvXN/q9oDBBNYtiL1LYgMLuK0JDvCI/xvg9R53tL1V7oQ1XGH52pi6 2J2oS2uM4+ze4LslHi+QCyxjEatYtArebotrm+QGj7fIbhhkfk+6QfoelqOp7bB+r/zjI7tXwg0G L4NP/OLQDviuTXZyhNkL3M1+ubSDKOx0uZoFOUOXznjOs573zOc++/nPgA7+tKAHTehCG/rQiKaq nXPgwEXTyquOpgEwBelKA0bQ0jROIgbsQRmr3IPTmeIyEuwLXQ6/VGAJ/FZJ8sPq4YRaus8tG1ht YOU5Dy+CqOYoEbNcQx9LQEN3ag+TXvFJC+vawzKo9Z0rCsf/JVTLteZwQYFNbX2AGlMbw7ArGf1s TZ96XDa+rqnxW4Frm9tCyKQxfiPNAmaKutlaBjePjX1jcncFOI5SEp9agcYb5xjZyerxlAXO7m9D O8fStkC1JeVqbKu717OugfauvMFtFzBjB5/4wKMCFnzD59P7xmTBTzDyRHtbByU3ucpXnoeUW4Tl uI75BL2aawsAyEd7ORD+4PZp6w8MYAAK+DkAfk70oRMd6EFHutAXsHShHx3oT2e60pEu9aI/HepH Z0DUjc70pGe96k2nutOnPoXCAQwEBeWLov6TJXb1HOAiCDvXpZ70us/d7mPXOtnnvnS7N6Dvcr/7 2JV+dwfIHfBY9/sT7L3a19patbGWtdeWzRm241xL3XrpPBvf+IIenup8F3vR9V73voce7H8HPd3x vneuZz3xEPj86r8OBV//W9sUbm52ow1vNc3JNHCqOXPH/e/Cfj3qgTe66b0+dau3nvbMBz3iWU93 rOc99scXPfOl0DFlZ5uENr19OeEOFCAxqE0I6yDCca+B7Ot99KtPffL+lb/85Uc//lsXPNS9Hnrp k336isd9OlZ8ALd74udhhdUiDoJ5uUZx61dv7Td6pnd98fd+red6qmd/pOd3FDh92geA1AeCGrh4 A+iA28JaB2hqcAcROtKCAiJ8KEh8hyVnIHh6FbiBhTd/I8iB2meDrqd1+reBHdiDVHBaiER57lNd UgYzeDElPKJ2OneC9yVrAtd5GIB4zod/qqeFWciDhgd9Ith8TQeE9DeBtJd/hWcGLjdyWJI/RTVy mFYBbWgEcQhzdniHeJiHeriHfNiHfviHgBiIgjiIhFiIhniIiJiIiriIjNiIjviIkBiJkjiJNrCD FGCJIYCJOBgEI6j+iRzgiZm4hREoBvlXiq8HhqJoAaDYARQYAfWXijXQibA4igGYAppoiat4g0kQ eLzofw+Qi6m3AqsIjDMgiyNQgypwi7NIjMTIA71IfbpYhqi3fWAnelgohlt4ihjofNhYemeIit4I f9NoiuIojfTnjdv4ioN3jfI3eOO4f70Ydup4ffKYgRJYjpy4d/G4jr6Yhq04e7BHjwHZj+j4jLIn ezn4fxdIeghphuiIgRCpgz0okEK4kOsIkadnfw05kDg4f/kIf6a4iQB5f9CXkch3kornkBSJkXm3 kRXpgySpkCkpkxGZeBI5klf3kv03hNf4jyYZjuIIgM0oA0MYhNH+6JLniJP2GIwJyZAcyZI2SZMO CZUviZQhqJA5eZNXiX1biZFJ6Y/ZKJWw94UjSQTPCJMaaJVN6ZUBqJUFqY8cSZFauZJdSZc/aYNn 6YVsqZNy+YEWGZYP6ZN6OZQx4IF+2YVMWY/WZ48gmX1dOI81eZX3iJcleZL4iJI7yZj1WJYe+Zjd yJndKJSfWY5bV5qVuZmqgomESYkTUJK/OIusGZur6QKzeQG1qYqweJusoptXCJvIaIuwmYYbMJVg +QO8aQjHeYxEKIzBWZvEmZyM4JiaaX3vOJlgyY/V2ZPU+JXpqJnmyJ3S2JiHR5momZ3WaIbYuZPt SI2WeX/s6X7+X+maVTCV9PmXd0mcMEmVLpmWTzmY/UmZwaiNBrmMcXmBormXMxmYYhmgMomQXACf 9cl6nrmdCZqZ97mYF+mUFWqS4EiePHmegomZdnmgGVqBSLmSIhqVpwidxjmhoHmhFLqWfamgwgmO bumgibmg7NiWgKmfBjqRA4mfJ1qgNOqT8nkFIwqXMFqLEbqfNEmW1fejSsmVMGqYPAqlM7qWd7mh S5qlM2qMWvCNrwiNKXqULlqm5miZS9mZKNqh+ziWb8p/FviUaKh8P+ma0kmmGFqNF8qNwakHLPqa lRKoh0CoMdoKhhqbiioqiYqbT9Col/inOiCYriipaECooEj+qa25nLRpqcAJA5hZAZqql6GYBZAa qR5wqpWKA6oqnLY5llTqqmxQpuQYmvvYjlE5dNu5okH6meApnSA6p+8IlSr5nrsqnmI4jUwJlOf5 ljOZnr/qfr16qEPgpFc6oK56kBP6nESKoAxKo1MamSG6rf/Jljj6hVnIppGppWr5eS3Zj60KArfq oXSaq1hqr2UIq1bqoxqpjVSplAKqoksZfQKrmEmZlfiYoHEqkGMqmUH5pK2Yk0cwr9Z6p6KorTfI rV36sEUqpXt5deVplFGao9vXr/ypoT6qnh35pCS7r7VoBMlHogu6ri0LpwPrhe0Kr93apD3asKT6 kGUJtN/+aqI7i6/9Gq73GoT4uYvfCJpnOq3CGrF5aqeo6a5h+bQca6EeuqzhOZq8yqfwqbBwma6c yn9xyqdGCaxQEK+zkpxs26JB5baeuqip8Laruqmp6ql2+6mOygJLC6hzW6o/G6vDSZCCSouiGrjN OKove7iF6614wLZhiKqsqLeB26mP27eUm7mN2wRO957ImqwUWqt6arKi+7XlWadq654S6n/ICrZ7 mqax+50He5lk27W+inpTG58Bm59MO6YVO67XOrMVWpQd27he6osnm7Lr+qXEm7aG+651Gb1AOrTS 65FMG7U6qqYkK7uK6brYaLNR6q/zWLRO2bD8SKTWmrP+QduUbYqW1pmvMems4KkEMnu86xmuVZub iEmq/ziX5guQPFuzVRrA/rmJ0rukusup6yu6nlu9FQul06uFeOuzLguNE+yWMgqrFnu87IvB7luv vuuV6Ku+RLi3eau9rWurJcy66PnCaHuPvZq7XbvC5zudMdy7KXu2VXeovTugpCme7mmatzu4XYDC axCoSEwDSxyLCQsJR5q3TVyMl0u3hDCMVezEqcibU1y5rwq3UpCpPZq4X1yJN8vFWezE0Ui4EoCL JNDFoDrGmzvHVLysaGy/ZXu3dCySPpfGztimJaqytcujIVu7Bvu6+fuw0HqaujrIvLujYuqdW/uD C4z+yALcrHgKvFDryIVslt3KpOarqUaqswAKwMU5wQtMv5pclRe7vUC5suA6vHysq6ucvP+Kxxy6 kMwbyLCLrkoKxFn7vxCMhj1ZsCwcvtHaugRbo8Pspl9bo7KcvvIbybh8q0frpEfrreQrwmAqzEhr x2s6sJtpunwZv6D8zSg7zleryKFKyOCbvTd5za7cwjtoy5B7rvfruKusk0KLwM/HwGN8riMbwnr8 oiLpzXDcxsfcw5c8rNcpjxbo0DxsrPJHr/7smTJcotybv886rvUazM9spxIctETcl9gLBAntiClt xSzd0i790jAd0zI90zRd0zZ90zid0zq90zzd0z7+/dNAHdRCPdREPQLgoQN5cSBy0oRusg1zOCx+ 4h87kNRPvdRFcnkYISBRmCuFAgRWjdUUoBRb3dQIMj8g8iOB4SNo7YRH7R1UXX7n0BZ3oR1SjRaJ Qh2B0tXAUhdxrYCGMtdyMiRu7RE3Zw5v3SZonXPi0dfcsCKWFz8uSNdFEtgKWNd4TdiG0tfoR9l/ bdkuAidjfSuR3RpHvSCMPRiaPdg9Yh0ootoK4tg/kSbo1yV7/dhLTSBsd9Zz+CPkYNWsfdma/dq5 Pdyf/dTwM9qzwSacTRpVQtzKvSBPWNmdXdZpkti0/SvIndblp9UlQiWgjdlO0dvATdeLAtuNvRb+ 433dRb3e7N3e7v3e8B3f8j3f9F3f9n3f+J3f+r3f/N3f/k0THxBykBBylhHgJCDgaxAfCJ4MYbDg 5mHgAF4CDv5rffASEC4IE74M5WYCGW4cfGDhZiEVAIEPYtFpCjEQh1Hi8JAeCKEejUIViBFsuKHi ZFEWLI4cNbEenlYZkQETPHEfIQ7jP24Y8bDjHY4G6DbjyjHk7qHhI27hv5EcSt7iUn4VJP7j1KYb S87kLZ4S9eEVOvHk9cHkBDHmYr7lSo4h8IHmXZ4HUD7l6tHmXQ7mXj7nVw7n8VDnk3LncX7ieG7n Y17n96HhbC7lbQ7lYbEbyQHiOiHnTt7oXI7+B2+O40JO50Be6Ste4CAOaopO5Ske6GU+4oI+6lZe 6ArRacth6KU+6I++6JwGI3ryaZB+6m4O6o5u6Keu6mlO4Wy+5Lh+6Hwe6lhu55NO7F9O6LZe7IjO 4J0u52Ce6LNO6hWe7GbO4GguEGQe7IBO5UO+6rnu54PO6Bky6zf+7eIOJsdu7dxu6mXe7brecR9u 62QR6Nle4qKe6cju4j6e6y/e4/cu6rpu78HhaZ4eI98u8AZP691O5Ca+7oYh7Qg/4Hdw5MHyHhZ/ 8Rif8Rq/8Rzf8R7/8SAf8iI/8iPPCBTfBfTx3yq/8nZ48pumcETV7pH+AgSe7xIeFQrv6E7+zdb/ wdae4vIHDvN8fvO8DvRyGCTEHdxuYSkfV+oFju/c/nENP+/WFuSaDnIpLuRYruM2/hUAPxa6DRK7 Ld1hfxqXIvNT7u15jm/GfuXn7uwH3xvvrhz3vvXDXvfUHXzcUfamXRuVgvajru16Hu2/3u4Bn+60 /va4Xux9Hu5MHdxdctcDsiONLfbGPQqAj+IDH+LZDuuE7vmRbvjajug3TufLTuPAJ91MzfcdMdus kPlDD+2ib+nDLviID+ymTviff/ttzvptuNyPPR4vuAqwj/fLPvvRzuppb/r0fu65cfi17/i0Ttpl vRmTD/nMvdmX3wnwvvWJrvWUDhY7Thz+Vn/rTb/54q/vcf/wtf/0Yk/ea0coPS/WU6IKJH//+J// +s/xS7H9lWT0CAC63P6AwEmrtSHczbv/YCiOZGku0qkq6eou2SvPdG3feK7vfO//wKBwSCwaj8ik cslsOp/QqHRKrVqv2Kx2y+16v+CweEwum8/otHrNbrvf8Lh8Tq/b7/i8fs/v+/+AgYKDhIWGh4iJ iouMjY6PkJGSk5SVlpdIApqbC5ucnZoMnqEOpAChowIPqQqfpw2spqeqrKKmtKOzoLuzrreqrcCY ZL/BEK66xrDCqMzCysa+q862ydPM1tDFssDF0MNi3rK73t/Wzbzpurit0+rox8ns1dr+8+3n1OBj 4s/k+ebb/n1DJc/dQHulCo4j5Slav3rq9H2p1ascw2cLqZU7+GqdwYoNc8GKBtIfvJIQzUnscjJb MJHc+gVsuKxaN1ofY7oURXJcxZcP5f3zuXLLxYj4ONJbF/Qdzpc5MSIcCdUnzatLi67hV9OmQIhE nXbsFdXrBGdTlY4Vmi6s1is6Y8nERbPU1aagsCJNahLZ2mZ1dea1+PWt4cOIEytezLix48eQI0ue TNmKVZEgb+4lOzhjSKmZj8WUStrWZ8CdgD6kWEvu6dSuS282TbsdxWWfYnumCxsmZioZzfpTmdfu WYEtRcuGWtzgRWzcujJdupHzWMH+zYnjrv2qera0O5VJS6ndSfDhw90mV48cvPDu3ZISPQrfNkbp LQmPZCgWffj38yB0nn0fdRVgW6BVMeB0fVGwHl4bJWfcLQpptFo+B7olX4J89XbPd6B5VxOF/GGn 0nxNlRgfef+ZN9d7TOHVYYu/6FZWR7lpplZBHj2Hn4BD6UWQWlwdx4tmQBoImIn0IIlgVlIsmB9d EN7GnlgaprJijqpVx1+PX7XGoZckESmmg631xCFYQYX15ZAzasiElElKyOKVHGWJYWriYXjhh5x4 +eeTAGWHXZGiHVkckwEV2KSh7Vn2on8MXvajkXlWOSKfDFIq3qJhDkreQpA2+SL+nuSAilSjxjlX 6o5R+haYbxENiGpcv7kEJ4wxBhqoqXURZyVavxL6U3C36fqUQ8Ga5uus1ywbZ66VVWvttdhmq+22 3Hbr7bfghmvXrOQ+i4xcfT2n7mVr7rYulUu+29lcn3nVLEq7WUdWsqrNyxx8p/FGILM5+iIjS34e OWmibEpXH0Am2jpVxPbQhymINN5nqb6+1qpxiBQqJQ2r75TnBaIWm6yflBg7ZGqrne54Uso3uszw wI+qOON3GB8ocoWeRtfiyQn36TDMJJ84ZpI7Jd2yzWyhiaWmRwNdn6AwgwloghlaWPXQCJdb47o1 x9uZyO2heFfBU4bWb1Q2Vr3+8U1IUrtxmXAK5uRMYxcWRtuMyriy4Exr+fWGDuP69M2K37zqlkdh nfhTeXOtpqdKnmHx5guXPTGMnB/uNMVRgx2hezzPzenMndf56qdVec3TbOEUXbrKQeoKoI79IT1x uxXzzjjIFz/86NY7RxfX6zzuKzunt+9DfLqog8g22W4rC6W/obkrfLxtRsqvrOauRX20xH45arF9 Xk+3iOLGL//89Ndv//3456///vz37///AAygAAdIwAIa8IAITKACF8jABjrwgRCMoAQnSMEKWvCC GMygBjfIwQ568IMgDKEIR0jCEprwhChMoQpXyMIWuvCFMIyhDGdIwxra8IY9OMyhDnfIwx768IdA DKIQh0jEIhrxiEhMohKXyMQmOvGJUIyiFKdIxSpa8YpYzKIWt8jFLnrxi2AMI2QSAAA7 ------=_NextPart_000_000F_01C7025A.6EB13D50-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 07 11:54:24 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhUAI-0000qx-1d; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:51:10 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhUAG-0000oz-EM for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:51:08 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhU86-0000PS-7q for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:48:55 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id E655E47E43 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:48:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27850-09 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:48:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8DB6047E19 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 11:48:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <4550B8F3.8080400@internet2.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 11:48:51 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm@ietf.org X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: Subject: [ippm] Remote Participation for IETF67 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Jabber instructions are here http://www.ietf.org/meetings/text_conf.html Audio streaming info is here: http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ Presentations received to date are here (search for "ippm"): https://datatracker.ietf.org/public/meeting_materials.cgi?meeting_num=67 --Matt _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 07 23:38:08 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghf93-0001qo-CS; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:34:37 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghf91-0001qW-9u for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:34:35 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghf90-0005Ze-Mx for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:34:35 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6AA9B47CAF for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27954-07 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:34:34 -0500 (EST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BE5F47C94 for ; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 23:34:33 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <45515E56.9030606@internet2.edu> Date: Tue, 07 Nov 2006 23:34:30 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm@ietf.org References: <20061102204526.GA7641@firebird1.grc.nasa.gov> In-Reply-To: <20061102204526.GA7641@firebird1.grc.nasa.gov> X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b045c2b078f76b9f842d469de8a32de3 Cc: Subject: [ippm] comments on draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org The IPPM Capacity draft authors have asked us to last call the document. As part of that, I re-read the draft, and have some comments, which I already sent to the authors. I mentioned this in the WG meeting today, and repeat them here in case they stir up any other comments. [chair hat off][except, maybe, for the security considerations section at the end...] --Matt -=-=- Nits ---- p3 "even ATM", strike the "even" "affect the capacity also"; I don't like the dangling also, how about dropping it or "also affect the capacity". [I also didn't look up the right thing to do with the "also :)] "roughly 155 Mbps": maybe we should be more precise. Slightly More Substantial ------------------------- I found the whole definitions section a bit backwards. I don't have a problem with the definitions themselves, but rather the sequence in which requirements to understand the definitions generally follow the definitions. I think i'd reorganize section 2. Here's one cut... use it (or modify) if you think it's better. ---snip--- 2. Definitions In this section, we specify definitions for capacity. We begin by first defining "link" and "path" in our context, and then defining a baseline capacity that is simply tied to the physical properties of the link. 2.1 Paths and Links To properly define capacity, we need a notion of link and path that is broader, but yet still consistent with, the definitions in the IPPM Framework document [RFC2330]. In particular, we need to be able to have a link between two network devices that are not necessarily IP-aware. (Consider, for example, an Ethernet switch where the router uplink is 1000baseT, but hosts are connected using 100baseT.) A link L connects two network devices, called nodes. Nodes could be hosts, routers, Ethernet switches, or any other device where input links could have different characteristics than the output link. It is not useful in this context to disambiguate layer 1 circuits into component parts (such as connections between two dense wave division multiplexing nodes). We define a path P of length n as a series of links (L1, L2, ..., Ln) connecting a sequence of nodes (N1, N2, ..., Nn+1). A source, S, and destination, D, reside at N1 and Nn+1 respectively. Furthermore, we define a link L as a special case where the path size is one. 2.2 Definition: Nominal Physical Link Capacity The nominal physical link capacity, NomCap(L), is the theoretical maximum amount of data that the link L can support. For example, an OC 3 link would be capable of roughly 155 Mbps. We stress that this is a measurement at the physical layer and not the network IP layer, which we will define separately. While NomCap(L) is typically constant over time, there are links whose characteristics may allow otherwise, such as the dynamic activation of additional transponders for a satellite link. The nominal physical link capacity is provided as a means to help distinguish between the commonly used link layer capacities and the remaining definitions for IP layer capacity. As a result, the value of NomCap(L) does not influence the other definitions presented in this document. 2.3 Capacity at the IP Layer There are many factors that can reduce the IP information carrying capacity of the link, some of which have already been discussed in the introduction. However, the goal of this document is not to become an exhaustive list of of such factors. Rather, we outline some of the major examples in the following section, thus providing food for thought to those implementing the algorithms or tools that attempt to measure capacity accurately. The remaining definitions are all given in terms of "IP layer bits" in order to distinguish these definitions from the nominal physical capacity of the link. 2.3.1 Definition: IP Layer Bits IP layer bits are defined as eight (8) times the number of octets in all IP packets received, from the first octet of the IP header to the last octet of the IP packet payload, inclusive. {mjz this is another "seems backwards" thing, but I guess IP does define everything in terms of octets...} IP layer bits are recorded at the destination, D, beginning at time T and ending at a time T+I. Since the definitions are based on averages, the two time parameters, T and I, must accompany any report or estimate of the following values in order for them to remain meaningful. It is not required that the interval boundary points fall between packet arrivals at D. However, boundaries that fall within a packet will invalidate the packets on which they fall. Specifically, the data from the partial packet that is contained within the interval will not be counted. This may artificially bias some of the values, depending on the length of the interval and the amount of data received during that interval. We elaborate on what constitutes correctly received data in the next section. 2.3.2 Definition: IP Layer Link Capacity We define the IP Layer link capacity, C(L,T,I), to be the maximum number of IP layer bits that can be transmitted from the source S and correctly received by the destination D over the link L during the interval [T, T+I], divided by I. Using this, we can then extend this notion to an entire path, such that the IP layer path capacity simply becomes that of the link with the smallest capacity along that path. 2.3.3 Definition: IP Layer Path Capacity C(P,T,I) = min {1..n} {C(Ln,T,I)} The previous definitions specify a link's capacity, namely the IP information bits that can be transmitted across a link or path should the resource be free of any congestion. Determining how much capacity is available for use on a congested link is potentially much more useful. However, in order to define the available capacity we must first specify how much is being used. 2.3.4 Definition: IP Layer Link Usage The average usage of a link L, Used(L,T,I), is the actual number of IP layer bits from any source, correctly received over link L during the interval [T, T+I], divided by I. An important distinction between usage and capacity is that Used(L,T,I) is not the maximum amount, but rather, the actual amount {mjz: inserted "sent" below, since that is important, as in 3.1} of IP bits sent that are correctly received. The information transmitted across the link can be generated by any source, including those who may not be directly attached to either side of the link. In addition, each information flow from these sources may share any number (from one to n) of links in the overall path between S and D. Next, we express usage as a fraction of the overall IP layer link capacity. 2.3.5 Definition: Average IP Layer Link Utilization Util(L,T,I) = ( Used(L,T,I) / C(L,T,I) ) Thus, the utilization now represents the fraction of the capacity that is being used and is a value between zero, meaning nothing is used, and one, meaning the link is fully saturated. Multiplying the utilization by 100 yields the percent utilization of the link. By using the above, we can now define the capacity available over the link as well as the path between S and D. Note that this is essentially the definition in [PDM]. 2.3.6 Definition: IP Layer Available Link Capacity AvailCap(L,T,I) = C(L,T,I) * ( 1 - Util(L,T,I) ) 2.3.7 Definition: IP Layer Available Path Capacity AvailCap(P,T,I) = min {1..n} {AvailCap(Ln,T,I)} Since measurements of available capacity are more volatile than that of capacity, it is important that both the time and interval be specified as their values have a great deal of influence on the results. In addition, a sequence of measurements may be beneficial in offsetting the volatility when attempting to characterize available capacity. ---snip--- The notion of "sent and correctly received" is central to all of these definitions, and I wonder if it shouldn't be moved up to section 2. Similarly the notion of time is central, and I think I would also move that up in section 3. the duplicate discussion was also a bit confusing. depending on framing overhead to send the duplicates, etc. Thus, a value for C(L,T,I) and AvailCap(L,T,I) will reflect the duplication with the lower value. depending on framing overhead to send the duplicates, etc. Since all the definitions are based on SENT bits that are correctly received, duplicates are not counted, either in usage or capacity. Thus, a value for C(L,T,I) and AvailCap(L,T,I) will reflect the duplication, reporting X instead of 2X. Security considerations: while I believe what you wrote is technically correct, we've always given advice to those that might actually implement something to report the definitions. I've added words mostly stolen from 2330. This document specifies definitions regarding IP traffic traveling between a source and destination in an IP network. Since they are only definitions, they do not raise any security issues and do not have a direct impact on the networking protocol suite. That said, it should be recognized that actually measuring these quantities by conducting Internet measurements can raise both security and privacy concerns. Active techniques, in which traffic is injected into the network, can be abused for denial-of-service attacks disguised as legitimate measurement activity. If recognizable, the active techniques themselves could lend themselves to malicous manipulation. Passive techniques, in which existing traffic is examined, can expose the contents of Internet traffic to unintended recipients. Thus any specification of measurement techniques must include a corresponding discussion of security considerations. References: The reference to 2119 is dangling, and should be deleted. I think 1812, at least, needs to be "normative" (although you could argue about whether normative is necessary for an informational draft too). You need to understand the IP header validation requirements. You could make the ref informative by importing the text, and then including a reference to note where it came from. 2330, maybe, as well, since the document talks about differences from that document (although I'm less positive it's needed; I *think* the doc stands alone w/o reading 2330). _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 08 00:30:00 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhfyD-0000rl-4Q; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:27:29 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhfyB-0000qe-7i for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:27:27 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghfy9-0005II-Uv for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:27:27 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FEC047C88; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 00:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 03897-05; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 00:27:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3021447C33; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 00:27:25 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <45516ABA.1020505@internet2.edu> Date: Wed, 08 Nov 2006 00:27:22 -0500 From: Matthew J Zekauskas User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Kaynam Hedayat X-Enigmail-Version: 0.94.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0a7aa2e6e558383d84476dc338324fab Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] comments on draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-01.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org I mentioned in the meeting that I had some comments about how we might harmonize this draft with the OWAMP RFC, and in particular ensure that modifications to OWAMP are seen as modifications that do not affect the security and privacy of either the control or test protocols, since those aspects required a lot of consultation with the security area to get correct. I don't want this document hung up needing a detailed security review. So here goes my first set of not-fully-baked comments, to spur discussion. --Matt -=-=- In reading the document, I wonder if we shouldn't have created an IANA registry for owamp-control message types... but this is the only likely protocol that would modify what exists. RFC 2119 is not in the references, but standards language is included. My basic idea is to see if we can minimize the changes to being straightforward deltas from the OWAMP spec, so that a detailed security review is not required. Note that the RFC changes section numbers, so the references are now wrong, and that some of the protocol has changed as well (in particular using HMAC instead of IZP). Most of these are brought over by reference, except for the twamp-test packet format and content section. Here's one thought, just focusing on TWAMP-control for now: 4. TWAMP Control The TWAMP control protocol is exactly the OWAMP control protocol, with two modifications: 1. The Request-Session for a two-way test has the value of 5 as the first octet, instead of 1. All other fields and values are as specified in the OWAMP Request-Session message. [behavior, though, is different?] [reaction to value 1: reject if one-way not supported?] (2nd para below) 2. The purpose of TWAMP is measurement of two-way metrics. Two-way measurements do not rely on packet level data collected by the Session-Reflector such as sequence number, timestamp, and TTL. As such the protocol does not require the retrieval of packet level data from the Server and the Fetch-Session command is optionally supported by the Server. However, TWAMP can be used as an extension to OWAMP [OWAMP] where both one-way and two-way measurements are measured in the same session. In this case the Server MAY support the Fetch-Session command as defined in section 3.9 of OWAMP [OWAMP]. The Session-Reflector will reject the Fetch-Session request if either it does not support the Fetch-Session command or Session-Reflector cannot provide the required data. In this case the server MUST respond with a Fetch-Ack message with Accept value of 3. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 08 02:03:30 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhhMg-0004MU-Cz; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 01:56:50 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhhMR-000492-Vq for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 01:56:36 -0500 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.231]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhhJr-0001MD-PL for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 01:53:58 -0500 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id t4so1697083wxc for ; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:53:53 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:cc:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=anrQJPQRolEd3sgmov+1W+LPbeEqBbA9t0N2zFxFVWgR0Q1+lnL5bgSK2FENJBQu/tCL3VkYtRkxSBdnTKRJ3XZO+pXhiPoJC9MQMuvxZ7bNQXgVHfvd2S2y+1Sru8MzbnsAtc3c8xl9+ldhJjDcjDK8pKiPrBZkD/SEbhC7PI4= Received: by 10.70.91.11 with SMTP id o11mr8830895wxb.1162968833256; Tue, 07 Nov 2006 22:53:53 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.110.14 with HTTP; Tue, 7 Nov 2006 22:53:53 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <13786f330611072253h4a27b73al73e02890f5c36174@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 01:53:53 -0500 From: "Joseph Kopena" To: "Matthew J Zekauskas" Subject: Re: [ippm] comments on draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-03.txt In-Reply-To: <45515E56.9030606@internet2.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <20061102204526.GA7641@firebird1.grc.nasa.gov> <45515E56.9030606@internet2.edu> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 2a3bf5994aa9a646 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org On 11/7/06, Matthew J Zekauskas wrote: > 2330, maybe, as well, since the document talks about differences from > that document (although I'm less positive it's needed; I *think* the doc > stands alone w/o reading 2330). Hi, After attending the IPPM meeting today for the first time (which was quite interesting), I've been reading through some of the group's standards and drafts. I agree with this statement---the capacity draft was the first I read, and it seemed perfectly reasonable on its own. For what they're worth, some comments follow. Small nits: * Pg. 5, "of of" has a redundant "of." * Pg. 5, "IP layer bits" definition header is not capitalized. * Pg. 6, in keeping with the rest of the document, "layer" in "We define the IP Layer link capacity, C(L,T,I)" should not be capitalized. * Pg. 6, in the following "information" should perhaps be replaced with "layer": "The previous definitions specify a link's capacity, namely the IP information bits that can be transmitted across a link or path should" Other thoughts: * The definition of IP Layer Bits seems almost circular. I don't understand why it's defined as eight times the number of IP octets as opposed to simply the bits received, unless that's a convention I'm not aware of: IP layer bits: Eight (8) times the number of octets in all IP packets received, from the first octet of the IP header to the last octet of the IP packet payload, inclusive. Note also that the current definition defines IP Layer Bits as the number of bits, wherease later in the document it's taken as the actual bits, which makes more sense to me. For example, note the definition of IP Layer Link Capacity (emphasis added): IP Layer Link Capacity: We define the IP Layer link capacity, C(L,T,I), to be the maximum __number__ of IP layer bits that can be transmitted from the source S I realize there's a history here I'm unaware of, but a definition I would put forward would be something like: IP Layer Bits The bits received from the data link layer by the IP software of the destination's network layer. This includes both the IP header as well as the packet payload. Note that these are the information bits correctly received and able to be processed by the IP layer and are not necessarily equivalent to the non-frame bits transmitted over the physical medium. This wolud be the case for example if the frame payload is compressed or padded to escape specific bit patterns, if errors are incurred during transmission rendering the data invalid as an IP packet, or if other non-IP data is being transmitted. * The definiton of IP Layer Link Capacity defines it as the number of correctly received IP Layer Bits. Does this mean IP Layer Bits includes incorrectly received bits? Given Section 3.1 that would seem to be the case, and should perhaps be the case (the definition above includes this). Just some thoughts. Thx! -- - joe kopena http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/tjkopena/ _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 08 11:08:17 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghpun-00059G-HD; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:04:37 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghpul-00058A-81 for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 11:04:35 -0500 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GhpjW-0007Hm-GR for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:53:00 -0500 Received: from sj-dkim-2.cisco.com ([171.71.179.186]) by sj-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 08 Nov 2006 07:52:58 -0800 X-IronPort-AV: i="4.09,401,1157353200"; d="txt'?scan'208"; a="755387192:sNHT84098638" Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (sj-core-1.cisco.com [171.71.177.237]) by sj-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id kA8FqvGG025167; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:57 -0800 Received: from xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-221.cisco.com [128.107.191.63]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id kA8FqvAo025363; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com ([171.70.151.187]) by xbh-sjc-221.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:57 -0800 Received: from [12.105.242.247] ([10.21.114.255]) by xfe-sjc-212.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 8 Nov 2006 07:52:55 -0800 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.2) To: acmorton@att.com Message-Id: <172C3B5A-FFDA-46B6-BF87-0C1D817ECA1F@cisco.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary=Apple-Mail-3-10377657 From: stephen wolff Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:52:51 -0500 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.2) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Nov 2006 15:52:56.0241 (UTC) FILETIME=[F5138210:01C7034D] DKIM-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; l=4919; t=1163001177; x=1163865177; c=relaxed/simple; s=sjdkim2002; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=swolff@cisco.com; z=From:stephen=20wolff=20 |Subject:Comments=20on=20draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-02.txt; X=v=3Dcisco.com=3B=20h=3DDGjvvVUEWuWnAuWwt9u/iEalROU=3D; b=MgAAgT0/IC7hodx47sDIT6CV5PhZ+e3XbBBPt/IOOkVz2L411KzQ5RXoGsv3FYhPy0QZ9PA5 bFIUQDBSdv6iTV3sbAdS2kA5Ma6ZCG1PLQIVriS1XqvVvLIpxyVCLTRV; Authentication-Results: sj-dkim-2.cisco.com; header.From=swolff@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( 31 extraneous bytes; sig from cisco.com verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 386e0819b1192672467565a524848168 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-02.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --Apple-Mail-3-10377657 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed There's more, but I've never done this before (as the Bishop said to the actress) so I'm floating this much for a read on whether I'm being too fussy or too ignorant or just missing the point altogether. -s --Apple-Mail-3-10377657 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; x-unix-mode=0644; name=draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-02.comments.1.txt Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-02.comments.1.txt There is a linguistic anomaly in draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-01, in that the word "composition" is apparently defined in terms of itself. Thus 3.4 and 3.5 state: "3.4. Composed Metric A composed metric is derived from other metrics principally by applying a composition function. 3.5. Composition Function A composition function is a deterministic process applied to Sub-path metrics to derive another metric (such as a Composed metric)." Then 4. states: "4. Description of Metric Types This section defines the various classes of Composition. There are two classes more accurately referred to as aggregation over time and space, and the third is simply composition in space." I.e., of the three forms of composition, one is defined as composition in space. The only example of "composition in space" in draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-01, however, is "concatenation" (in 4.3). If in fact "concatenation" is the only instance of "composition in space," perhaps 4. might read: "4. Description of Metric Types This section defines the various classes of Composition. There are two classes more accurately referred to as aggregation over time and space, and the third is concatenation in space." There is a similar anomaly in RFC2330 - but it's too late for that now. Also: is the word "principally" in 3.4 necessary? I.e., why is whatever-else-you-do-to-the-other-metrics-besides-applying-the-composition-function in order to produce the composed metric not considered part of the composition function? -------------------------------------- The first sentence of 1.1.4 is a little obscure: " If a network operator can anticipate needing to aggregate or compose overall metrics in the future, it is more efficient to start by considering the tenants of these methods in the measurement design/ sampling plan, and reporting the results." Later (in section 3), "aggregation" is defined as a subclass of "composition", so the phrase "aggregate or compose" is paradoxical. Furthermore, the word "overall" used often in draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-02.txt is nowhere defined - and that is probably wise: it can hold its common (dictionary) definition and not become a term of art as "aggregate" and "compose" do. Also, "...it is more efficient to..." begs the question "more efficient than what?" And finally, the intent of the word "tenant" is unclear: perhaps it was intended to be "tenet," but that is "a belief widely held to be true" which doesn't seem to fit here. Addressing these four points, would the sentence and the remainder of the paragraph 1.1.4 preserve the authors' intent if they became: "If a network operator can anticipate needing to produce overall metrics by composition, it is prudent to keep that requirement in mind when considering the measurement design/sampling plan, since the Summary Statistics of certain metrics are more conducive to composition than others." ----------------------------------------- To the uninitiated, the example of Temporal Aggregation in 4.1 is confusing because the meaning of "One-Way Delay measurements ... obtained in 5-minute periods" is unclear. Is it the time series of average delays experienced by all packets received during a 5-minute interval? A 5-minute moving average? The time series of the delay experienced by single packets chosen as nearly as possible 5 minutes apart? Or according to a Poisson process with 5-minute mean? Perhaps a less ambiguous example would read something like: "For example, starting from a time series of the measurements of maximum and minimum One-Way Delay on a certain network path obtained over 5-minute intervals, we obtain a time series measurement with a coarser resolution (60 minutes) by taking the max of 12 consecutive 5-minute maxima and the min of 12 consecutive 5-minute minima." -------------------------------- --Apple-Mail-3-10377657 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed stephen wolff +1.202.362.7110 (v) academic research and technology initiatives +1.202.362.1155 (f) cisco systems +1.202.361.9728 (m) --Apple-Mail-3-10377657 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail-3-10377657-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 08 13:21:38 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghs0m-0007Yr-Hj; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:18:56 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghs0j-0007Qq-HR for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:18:53 -0500 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.229]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ghs0h-0004mv-8T for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 13:18:53 -0500 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id s8so1546371wxc for ; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:18:51 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=LG+MSX9x5haz8p+84/tp1N6K+M4bzkVBX1XGIjRIHsvmbf9wuJRtv6knLcLjjHnnJt6qqZ0wpOmcEMKH8C3MrP9l3Y6O8bHtaQUVY0lTl0d2hKOdRVSLBt+1AWUu41wl+YVXhCuCAh6xyMus/Sr2hnWmjrH7QoHeIvfiGiRzUsM= Received: by 10.70.50.10 with SMTP id x10mr9933841wxx.1163009931030; Wed, 08 Nov 2006 10:18:51 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.110.14 with HTTP; Wed, 8 Nov 2006 10:18:50 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <13786f330611081018k2cff26able2fafeb5cdd77e66@mail.gmail.com> Date: Wed, 8 Nov 2006 13:18:50 -0500 From: "Joseph Kopena" To: ippm@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <13786f330611071608v2eb97b1ey5ed9db336e31038@mail.gmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <13786f330611071608v2eb97b1ey5ed9db336e31038@mail.gmail.com> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0c2bff03418ed651 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Cc: Subject: [ippm] Fwd: IPPM Multimetrics X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Hi folks, The following are some typographical comments on the spatial & multicast metrics draft [1]. I had sent them to Al Morton & he asked that I post them here to be part of the public readership log for that draft. Thx --------------------- # Pg. 7, "whished" should be "wished." # Pg. 8, "emphasizes" should be "emphasized." # Pg. 9, "methodoly" should be "methodology." # Pg. 22, "Scr" should be "Src." # Pg. 22, last paragraph, spaces should be added after/before set deliminating left/right brackets. This is done throughout most of the document, but not for some of the sets here. # Pg. 23, there are several problems in the end of the last full paragraph: __A very good example of the high relative performance requirement is the online gaming. A very light worse delay will result in failure in the game. We have to use the new statistic metrics to define exactly how small the relative delay the online gaming requires. There are many other services, e.g. online biding, online stock market, etc., need a rule to judge the relative performance requirement. Therefore, we can see the importance of new statistic metrics to feed this need.__ It's not very clear what "light worse delay" means exactly. The phrase "new statistic metrics" should perhaps be something more like "multicast-specific relative metrics." The phrase "need a rule to judge the relative performance requirement." should perhaps be "that require multicast metrics in order to evaluate the network against their requirements." The phrase "new statistic metrics" should perhaps be "new, multicast specific, statistical metrics." # Pg. 24, "intent" should be "intend." # Pg. 25, "it is no need to specify" should be "there is no need to specify." # Pg. 26, "performancesituation" is missing a space. # Pg. 26, "much clear" should be "more clear." # Pg. 26, "performanceof" is missing a space. # Pg. 26, "Type-P-one-to-group- One-" has an extra space. # Pg. 26, there are several problems in the end of the last full paragraph: __Moreover, this is one of efforts to introducing the one-to- many concern to the IPPM working group with respect to the fact that all existing documents in the group are unicast oriented, which talk about only one-to-one single "path" in measurements. __ It should perhaps read something such as: __These metrics have been defined in order to introduce one-to-many concerns to the IPPM working group, which has previously been focused on unicast situations and only one-to-one single "path" measurements and metrics have been defined to this point.__ --------------------- [1] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-multimetrics-02.txt -- - joe kopena http://gicl.cs.drexel.edu/people/tjkopena/ _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 09 02:39:51 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gi4Rp-0005t8-GZ; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 02:35:41 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gi4Ro-0005t3-38 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 02:35:40 -0500 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gi4Rl-0006Q8-WB for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 02:35:39 -0500 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1B247D29 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 02:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 31027-03 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 02:35:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C01247D23 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 02:35:37 -0500 (EST) To: IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt From: stanislav shalunov Date: 08 Nov 2006 21:56:35 -0500 Message-ID: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Lines: 74 User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 25620135586de10c627e3628c432b04a Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org As mentioned during the IPPM meeting, we met today to discuss the reporting draft. Al, Emile, Henk, and I came to the meeting. The following issues were identified with the draft (mostly Al's notes on his reading copy of the draft). Please comment on the issues where you have an opinion. 1. Should lost packets be included in the calculation of median delay (as currently in the draft, with infinite delay), or omitted? For including infinite delay: this is specified as the only option by section 5.1 of RFC 2679. For computing percentiles on received packets only: Al, please clarify. 2. Should the name for ``delay'' be more descriptive and say ``median delay''? For longer version: more descriptive. For shorter version: more concise, no statistical terms not meaningful to many end-users (thus less confusing). 3. Should name for loss similarly be ``loss ratio'' (or fraction or whatnot)? For longer version: more descriptive. For shorter version: ``ratio'' or ``fraction'' is clearly indicated by reporting percentage. 4. Should jitter be called ``delay spread'' instead? 5. ITU draft definition of duplication currently differs from what is in the draft. The IPPM draft has it so that it can't exceed 100%. ITU draft allows two options (which differ in the treatment of lost packets), with both allowing the measure to exceed 100%. Henk will write a separate IPPM document defining duplication harmonizing with ITU. If there's difficulty, Stas is OK with dropping the metric altogether. 6. Reordering definition is not as in the reordering RFC. 7. Round-trip metrics should say how the packets need to be echoed. 8. The middle of the reporting interval is not something that's mentioned as the time of the measurement anywhere else (where beginning and end are used). Will change to the end. Rationale: With the end as the time of the measurement, a measurement just concluded measures the network as it is now. 9. The draft specified sliding window in passive measurement. Is this right? Use case: VoIP phone displaying statistics. Should it update continuously or once every 10 seconds? For continuous update: most timely statistics, more useful in cases like sudden silence (``did the connection just drop or get worse?''). For discrete updates: the rate of updates contains information. The user will easily infer that the measurements aggregate since last update. 10. The second paragraph of section 3 (``Scope'') should have a subtitle. 11. Mention the difficulty of clock synchronization for one-way delay measurements? -- Stanislav Shalunov http://www.internet2.edu/~shalunov/ Heather has two mommies. That's nothing. The Internet has at least two dozen daddies. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 09 15:11:50 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiGCK-0005qY-FZ; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:08:28 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiGCI-0005oX-Q3 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:08:26 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiGCD-0008Ox-Bc for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:08:26 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id F270F2406F; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:07:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37D7B24010; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:07:39 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889F02F5B4; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:07:38 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:07:32 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal Organization: RIPE NCC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.7 (Windows/20060909) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: stanislav shalunov Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt References: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> In-Reply-To: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000001 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: 631e2286616eafbef605c923ba26b916 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 82c9bddb247d9ba4471160a9a865a5f3 Cc: IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Hi Stas, others, (Personal opinions, chair hat off). > 1. Should lost packets be included in the calculation of median delay > (as currently in the draft, with infinite delay), or omitted? One goal is to make the quantities orthogonal, including lost packets in the delay metric accomplishes the opposite. Removing them says something like "10 packets were sent, 2 were lost, of the 8 that arrived, the median delay was X". > 2. Should the name for ``delay'' be more descriptive and say ``median > delay''? I think so. This is what we report, we don't report "average delay" or "delay of the first packet". > 3. Should name for loss similarly be ``loss ratio'' (or fraction or > whatnot)? Yes, though here I think the % makes it obvious what is reported. > 4. Should jitter be called ``delay spread'' instead? Yes, this is what you are reporting. > 5. ITU draft definition of duplication currently differs from what is > in the draft. The IPPM draft has it so that it can't exceed 100%. > ITU draft allows two options (which differ in the treatment of lost > packets), with both allowing the measure to exceed 100%. Henk will > write a separate IPPM document defining duplication harmonizing > with ITU. If there's difficulty, Stas is OK with dropping the > metric altogether. I just went through the ITU document and couldn't find a metric there. For the IPPM draft, I'm thinking about #duplicates/#sent (or #received/#sent-1). This can go over 100% (say if each packet sent results in 3 copies arriving, the metric will be 200%) but I think that is OK. Nobody has problems understanding something like "traffic increased with 200% in the last month". Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I can't believe grown engineers are afraid of a dot. (Ed Lewis) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 09 15:17:55 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiGKY-0003qy-0A; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:16:58 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiGKW-0003qs-TO for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:16:56 -0500 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiGKT-0001aA-KG for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:16:56 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-11.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1163103411!12517312!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 29810 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2006 20:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh9i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-11.tower-121.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 9 Nov 2006 20:16:51 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA9KADTJ007099 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:10:13 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kA9KA6Wt007033 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 15:10:06 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.78.195](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061109201643gw100re370e>; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 20:16:43 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061109145925.0036fb70@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 15:16:42 -0500 To: IETF IPPM WG From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt In-Reply-To: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> References: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352 Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org At 09:56 PM 11/8/2006, stanislav shalunov wrote: >1. Should lost packets be included in the calculation of median delay > (as currently in the draft, with infinite delay), or omitted? > > For including infinite delay: this is specified as the only option > by section 5.1 of RFC 2679. Not quite an option, it is an informal representation of "undefined". The singleton definition says the Delay of packets that don't arrive is undefined, and I propose to keep them that way. from RFC 2679: 3.4. Definition: ... >>The *Type-P-One-way-Delay* from Src to Dst at T is undefined (informally, infinite)<< means that Src sent the first bit of a Type-P packet to Dst at wire-time T and that Dst did not receive that packet. ... Some of the text in Section 5.1 went with the informal representation, some did not. ... 5.1. Type-P-One-way-Delay-Percentile Given a Type-P-One-way-Delay-Poisson-Stream and a percent X between 0% and 100%, the Xth percentile of all the dT values in the Stream. In computing this percentile, undefined values are treated as infinitely large. Note that this means that the percentile could thus be undefined (informally, infinite). In addition, the Type-P- One-way-Delay-Percentile is undefined if the sample is empty. > For computing percentiles on received packets only: Al, please > clarify. Compute on the delay distribution conditioned on packet arrival within the timeout, and then the delay metric will be "as orthogonal as possible" to loss. Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 09 22:53:35 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiNPf-0006nf-2k; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:50:43 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiNPd-0006mN-Uk for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:50:41 -0500 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiNPY-0000EX-Ir for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:50:41 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-7.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1163130635!15570648!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 5291 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2006 03:50:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh9i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-7.tower-120.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2006 03:50:35 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kAA3ht59005215 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:43:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kAA3hk8J005156 for ; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 22:43:50 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.81.112](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061110035023gw100re3b4e>; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 03:50:24 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061109223939.01dc3cf8@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Thu, 09 Nov 2006 22:49:53 -0500 To: Henk Uijterwaal From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt In-Reply-To: <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> References: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Cc: IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org At 03:07 PM 11/9/2006, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: but before that, Stas wrote: >>5. ITU draft definition of duplication currently differs from what is >> in the draft. The IPPM draft has it so that it can't exceed 100%. >> ITU draft allows two options (which differ in the treatment of lost >> packets), with both allowing the measure to exceed 100%. Henk will >> write a separate IPPM document defining duplication harmonizing >> with ITU. If there's difficulty, Stas is OK with dropping the >> metric altogether. > >I just went through the ITU document and couldn't find a metric there. >For the IPPM draft, I'm thinking about #duplicates/#sent (or >#received/#sent-1). This can go over 100% (say if each packet sent >results in 3 copies arriving, the metric will be 200%) but I think >that is OK. Nobody has problems understanding something like "traffic >increased with 200% in the last month". > >Henk Right, that was the draft from the meeting last June. I've done some work since then, but I have yet to start editing the new draft (one meeting at a time!) The structure of the draft is to first define the primary outcomes, then parameters (metrics) based on those outcomes. >IIRC, you said something like: duplicates/packets_sent >yesterday. In other words, if one packet sent results in 2 packets >received, it will be 1/1=100%. If one packet results in 3 packets >received, it will be 2/1=200%. Is this correct, is it in the doc? >(If not, I'll invent a metric for the IPPM doc). I had two metrics on paper yesterday, the other is: duplicates /non-duplicate packets received. I think this may be better because it does not mix loss and duplication in the denominator by using packets_sent. So, if one packet sent results in 2 packets of the same received, it will be 1/1=100%. If one packet results in 3 packets received, it will be 2/1=200%. If two packets are sent, 1 is lost and 3 copies of the other are received, it will be 2/1=200%. Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 10 00:23:17 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiOoZ-0006KC-Fy; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:20:31 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiOoY-0006K4-OQ for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:20:30 -0500 Received: from wx-out-0506.google.com ([66.249.82.230]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GiOoX-0006DC-Ia for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:20:30 -0500 Received: by wx-out-0506.google.com with SMTP id h29so410287wxd for ; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:20:29 -0800 (PST) DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=beta; d=gmail.com; h=received:message-id:date:from:sender:to:subject:in-reply-to:mime-version:content-type:content-transfer-encoding:content-disposition:references:x-google-sender-auth; b=SMC2Ub6uXQPaV1p2H54LGMFMn8mXODKaz5/ECUYr7GZfVeYzfJgUxQtYooUqt2hfd1ZmjY4HiD+m87RfiE/uR138p11+ycrvsmXEXDyFhd+PbZucf7nAY/nSdmvkMlQhfxj8I0kvfVWVQDEE/7zlIAyCOUaEmLAoUzkjGDk0mGI= Received: by 10.70.113.16 with SMTP id l16mr2305571wxc.1163136029257; Thu, 09 Nov 2006 21:20:29 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.70.110.14 with HTTP; Thu, 9 Nov 2006 21:20:29 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <13786f330611092120n7a11d1afo50ac0fb41aca77ab@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 00:20:29 -0500 From: "Joseph Kopena" To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt In-Reply-To: <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline References: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> X-Google-Sender-Auth: 43403ff481046916 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 68c8cc8a64a9d0402e43b8eee9fc4199 Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org On 11/9/06, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > > 4. Should jitter be called ``delay spread'' instead? > > Yes, this is what you are reporting. One small comment is that if you show users "delay spread" on a readout, there's probably going to be some number of them that will take it as the range, the difference from maximum to minimum, rather than the interquartile. -- - joe kopena _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 10 14:11:58 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gibjq-0000yX-UJ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:08:30 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gibjp-0000t1-EV for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:08:29 -0500 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gibjm-0002WY-2H for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:08:29 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-8.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1163185704!17528493!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 28751 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2006 19:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh9i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-8.tower-120.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 10 Nov 2006 19:08:24 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kAAJ1jax000495 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:01:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh9i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kAAJ1dVG000426 for ; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:01:39 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (unknown[135.210.73.134](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061110190816gw100re3hse>; Fri, 10 Nov 2006 19:08:17 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061110140339.01db7510@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Fri, 10 Nov 2006 14:08:16 -0500 To: ippm@ietf.org From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt In-Reply-To: <13786f330611092120n7a11d1afo50ac0fb41aca77ab@mail.gmail.co m> References: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> <13786f330611092120n7a11d1afo50ac0fb41aca77ab@mail.gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org At 12:20 AM 11/10/2006, Joseph Kopena wrote: >On 11/9/06, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >> > 4. Should jitter be called ``delay spread'' instead? >> >>Yes, this is what you are reporting. > >One small comment is that if you show users "delay spread" on a >readout, there's probably going to be some number of them that will >take it as the range, the difference from maximum to minimum, rather >than the interquartile. > >-- >- joe kopena So, it may be clearer to say "Inter-Quartile Delay Spread". At least that relives ambiguity w.r.t. the range, and I want to expand these names to be sufficiently descriptive. Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 13 02:54:40 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjWae-0008Lj-Qn; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:50:48 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjWac-0008Le-VB for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:50:46 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjWaW-0004hL-KY for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 02:50:46 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id C134424388; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:50:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 27F6E24382; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:50:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E0A0F2F59D; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:50:11 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <455815F5.9040507@ripe.net> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 07:51:33 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal Organization: RIPE NCC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt References: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> <13786f330611092120n7a11d1afo50ac0fb41aca77ab@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20061110140339.01db7510@att.com> In-Reply-To: <7.0.1.0.0.20061110140339.01db7510@att.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000000 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: f3b82136b4ae2786da5330d0930001e1 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Al Morton wrote: > At 12:20 AM 11/10/2006, Joseph Kopena wrote: >> On 11/9/06, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >>> > 4. Should jitter be called ``delay spread'' instead? >>> >>> Yes, this is what you are reporting. >> >> One small comment is that if you show users "delay spread" on a >> readout, there's probably going to be some number of them that will >> take it as the range, the difference from maximum to minimum, rather >> than the interquartile. >> >> -- >> - joe kopena > > So, it may be clearer to say "Inter-Quartile Delay Spread". > At least that relives ambiguity w.r.t. the range, and I want > to expand these names to be sufficiently descriptive. While this is technically the correct name, I think it misses the point of being understandable by non-experts. Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I can't believe grown engineers are afraid of a dot. (Ed Lewis) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 13 09:01:46 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjcJd-0004ks-7w; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:57:37 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjcJb-0004kn-Th for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:57:35 -0500 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjcJX-0006yW-IE for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:57:35 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1163426250!17880498!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 6355 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2006 13:57:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh0i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-9.tower-120.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 13 Nov 2006 13:57:30 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kADDvTIZ028865 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:57:29 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kADDvOSB028817 for ; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:57:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (acmt.mt.att.com[135.16.251.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061113135724gw100re3nae>; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 13:57:24 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061113085115.01d3e058@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 08:57:24 -0500 To: Henk Uijterwaal From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01.txt In-Reply-To: <455815F5.9040507@ripe.net> References: <867iy5iazg.fsf@abel.internet2.edu> <45538A84.7000803@ripe.net> <13786f330611092120n7a11d1afo50ac0fb41aca77ab@mail.gmail.com> <7.0.1.0.0.20061110140339.01db7510@att.com> <455815F5.9040507@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org At 01:51 AM 11/13/2006, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >Al Morton wrote: >>At 12:20 AM 11/10/2006, Joseph Kopena wrote: >>>On 11/9/06, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >>>>Stas wrote: >>>> > 4. Should jitter be called ``delay spread'' instead? >>>> >>>>Yes, this is what you are reporting. >>> >>>One small comment is that if you show users "delay spread" on a >>>readout, there's probably going to be some number of them that will >>>take it as the range, the difference from maximum to minimum, rather >>>than the interquartile. >>> >>>-- >>>- joe kopena >>So, it may be clearer to say "Inter-Quartile Delay Spread". >>At least that relives ambiguity w.r.t. the range, and I want >>to expand these names to be sufficiently descriptive. > >While this is technically the correct name, I think it misses the >point of being understandable by non-experts. > >Henk If so, maybe "75 percentile - 25 percentile Delay Spread" (possibly using the shorthand, %-ile) would be clear to everyone. Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 13 15:49:50 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjiiB-0008Sy-LA; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:47:23 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjiiB-0008St-6V for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:47:23 -0500 Received: from bortzmeyer.netaktiv.com ([80.67.170.53] helo=mail.bortzmeyer.org) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gjii9-0005wN-Sn for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 15:47:23 -0500 Received: by mail.bortzmeyer.org (Postfix, from userid 10) id 7B54D24080E; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:47:10 +0100 (CET) Received: by mail.sources.org (Postfix, from userid 1000) id 4C52611C27; Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:45:42 +0100 (CET) Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2006 21:45:42 +0100 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <20061113204542.GC1254@sources.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline X-Transport: UUCP rules X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 3.1 User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.9i X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Cc: Subject: [ippm] Reading draft-ietf-ippm-reporting-01 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org I've just read this Internet-Draft and I find it useful and well written. And I appreciate the source code. [Newcomer on the list, I'm the author and maintainer of the echoping measurement tool, hence my interest in IPPM work.] _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 14 07:02:47 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjwwS-0007le-Lw; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:59:04 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjwwR-0007iz-B3 for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:59:03 -0500 Received: from ads40.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.102.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GjwvL-0004oR-JM for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 06:57:58 -0500 Received: from EVS-EC1-NODE1.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.102.136]) by ads40.surrey.ac.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:55:37 +0000 Received: from 131.227.89.115 ([131.227.89.115]) by EVS-EC1-NODE1.surrey.ac.uk ([131.227.102.152]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:55:37 UT Received: from ccsrlt115.ee.surrey.ac.uk by exchange.surrey.ac.uk; 14 Nov 2006 11:55:36 +0000 Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: IPPM Multimetrics From: lei Liang To: Joseph Kopena In-Reply-To: <13786f330611081018k2cff26able2fafeb5cdd77e66@mail.gmail.com> References: <13786f330611071608v2eb97b1ey5ed9db336e31038@mail.gmail.com> <13786f330611081018k2cff26able2fafeb5cdd77e66@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2006 11:55:36 +0000 Message-Id: <1163505336.2988.12.camel@ccsrlt115.ee.surrey.ac.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Evolution 2.2.2 (2.2.2-5) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Nov 2006 11:55:37.0717 (UTC) FILETIME=[CCBBAA50:01C707E3] X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: c0bedb65cce30976f0bf60a0a39edea4 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thanks you very much, Joseph. Language is always a headache for me. We will polish the draft based on your comments. Best regards, Lei On Wed, 2006-11-08 at 13:18 -0500, Joseph Kopena wrote: > Hi folks, > > The following are some typographical comments on the spatial & > multicast metrics draft [1]. I had sent them to Al Morton & he asked > that I post them here to be part of the public readership log for that > draft. > > Thx > > --------------------- > # Pg. 7, "whished" should be "wished." > # Pg. 8, "emphasizes" should be "emphasized." > # Pg. 9, "methodoly" should be "methodology." > # Pg. 22, "Scr" should be "Src." > # Pg. 22, last paragraph, spaces should be added after/before set > deliminating left/right brackets. This is done throughout most of the > document, but not for some of the sets here. > # Pg. 23, there are several problems in the end of the last full paragraph: > > __A very good example of the high relative performance requirement is > the online gaming. A very light worse delay will result in failure > in the game. We have to use the new statistic metrics to define > exactly how small the relative delay the online gaming requires. There > are many other services, e.g. online biding, online stock market, > etc., need a rule to judge the relative performance requirement. > Therefore, we can see the importance of new statistic metrics to feed > this need.__ > > It's not very clear what "light worse delay" means exactly. The > phrase "new statistic metrics" should perhaps be something more like > "multicast-specific relative metrics." The phrase "need a rule to > judge the relative performance requirement." should perhaps be "that > require multicast metrics in order to evaluate the network against > their requirements." The phrase "new statistic metrics" should > perhaps be "new, multicast specific, statistical metrics." > > # Pg. 24, "intent" should be "intend." > # Pg. 25, "it is no need to specify" should be "there is no need to specify." > # Pg. 26, "performancesituation" is missing a space. > # Pg. 26, "much clear" should be "more clear." > # Pg. 26, "performanceof" is missing a space. > # Pg. 26, "Type-P-one-to-group- One-" has an extra space. > # Pg. 26, there are several problems in the end of the last full paragraph: > > __Moreover, this is one of efforts to introducing the one-to- many > concern to the IPPM working group with respect to the fact that all > existing documents in the group are unicast oriented, which talk about > only one-to-one single "path" in measurements. __ > > It should perhaps read something such as: > > __These metrics have been defined in order to introduce one-to-many > concerns to the IPPM working group, which has previously been focused > on unicast situations and only one-to-one single "path" measurements > and metrics have been defined to this point.__ > --------------------- > > [1] http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-multimetrics-02.txt > _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 16 03:58:47 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gkd1F-0002uh-P6; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 03:54:49 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gkd1E-0002uU-IY for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 03:54:48 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gkd19-0006hN-4o for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 03:54:48 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id 2EF6D24197; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:53:56 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78CCB23EFB for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:53:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (cow.ripe.net [193.0.1.239]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 733A22F59E for ; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:53:55 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <455C271C.7000305@ripe.net> Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2006 09:53:48 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal Organization: RIPE NCC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.181195 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: ab44b6ffdf372ee0654ecf139baeaa61 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5a9a1bd6c2d06a21d748b7d0070ddcb8 Cc: Subject: [ippm] Clean up of milestones X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org IPPM group, I did a clean-up of the open milestones for the group. There are 3 drafts that we thought we'd finished by now (and they are almost done). I suggest this schedule to wrap them up. 1. Jun 2006 Submit link bandwidth capacity definitions draft to the IESG, for consideration as an Informational RFC => Nov 2006: New version (Phil/Joe) => Dec 2006: WGLC => Jan 2007: Submit 2. Jun 2006 Submit draft on Two-way active measurements protocol (TWAMP) to the IESG for consideration as proposed standard => Dec 2006: Add guidance for implementors to draft (authors) => Dec 2006: Review security section (Matt/authors) => Jan 2007: WGLC => Feb 2007: Submit 3. Jun 2006 Submit draft on storing results of traceroute measurements to the IESG => Dec 2006: New version (Juergen) => Feb 2007: WGLC => Mar 2007: Submit 4. Jan 2006 Submit initial applicability statement for the IPPM and ITU Jitter Measurements to the WG => DONE with the submission of Al's draft. Next steps to be discussed on the list. 5. Jun 2006 Develop new charter text => DONE (our current charter is still up to date) 6. Jun 2007 Review charter text => NEW This gives everybody 1-2 months to wrap up the drafts. The WGLC's are staggered to avoid that people have too many things on their reading stack. If you are an author of any of these drafts, please confirm that this schedule is OK with you. Henk ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I can't believe grown engineers are afraid of a dot. (Ed Lewis) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From bffabgbcafdc@cardablanche.com Thu Nov 16 12:36:30 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gkl3l-0001Dk-O6; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:29:57 -0500 Received: from [85.101.118.44] (helo=dsl.static8510111844.ttnet.net.tr) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gkkq9-0000bM-Q7; Thu, 16 Nov 2006 12:15:57 -0500 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2006 17:15:57 -0120 From: Replica shop X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.01) Educational Reply-To: bffabgbcafdc X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <684600194.20061116171557@cardablanche.com> To: ion-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Good gifts for a low price MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 4.5 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 9ed51c9d1356100bce94f1ae4ec616a9
=20=

LUXURY CHRISTMAS GIFTS


Replica Watches, Handbags, Jewelry and More

We have everything you need to make someone's day complete, or=20= indulge yourself:

=95 Beautiful Handbags, Wallets and Accessories in Summer=20= Colors
=95 Sterling Silver Tiffany Bracelets let you Show off=20= Delicately
=95 Stylish Ink Pens for any Desk or Office
=95 Designer Neckties, made from the Finest Silks
=95 Rolex Watches will Last a Lifetime

Enjoy the best at a fraction of the cost.

Order Now and=20= SAVE 25% or Get Free Shipping!

pavement was of big,=20= round cobblestones, made bright and clean by thecrowding close to the=20= pavement in front, left a comfortable space in the
From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Nov 17 18:43:47 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GlDIY-0002LT-Bq; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:39:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GlDIW-0002Kn-BA for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:39:04 -0500 Received: from panorama.covad.com ([66.134.72.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GlDIT-0001ky-UK for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 18:39:04 -0500 Received: from zanxmb00a.cc-ntd1.covad.com (zanxmb00a.corp.covad.com [172.16.2.75]) by panorama.Covad.COM (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id PAA19865; Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:38:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from ZANEVS03.cc-ntd1.covad.com ([172.16.2.83]) by zanxmb00a.cc-ntd1.covad.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:38:59 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 17 Nov 2006 15:38:59 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt Thread-Index: AccKoXW5b2h4ZKyDTO2xW1prYp9now== From: "Fardid, Reza" To: "Al Morton" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 17 Nov 2006 23:38:59.0558 (UTC) FILETIME=[8E3AD060:01C70AA1] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-7.0.0.1345-3.6.1039-14820.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--10.723800-0.000000-31 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2e8fc473f5174be667965460bd5288ba Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0161780784==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0161780784== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C70AA1.8E0B48DC" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C70AA1.8E0B48DC Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Al, =20 I have one small comment about the latest draft: =20 5.1.5 Composition Function =20 If Ep_i =3D 1 for any i, then CompEp =3D 1, e.g., when active = measurements over subpath i cannot be made or reported for a duration of time. This degenerate, yet possible, case renders the resulting CompEp useless. =20 This case can either be included in 5.1.8 as a Source of Error, or excluded from CompEp by adding a statement after its composition function is defined: "CompEp is only defined over Ep_i !=3D 1 for all = i" . =20 Regards, Reza =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C70AA1.8E0B48DC Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Al,

 

I have one small comment about the latest = draft:

 

5.1.5 Composition Function

 

If Ep_i =3D 1 for any i, then CompEp =3D 1, e.g., when active = measurements over subpath i cannot be made or reported for a duration of = time.

This degenerate, yet possible, case renders the resulting CompEp useless.

 

This case can either be included in 5.1.8 as a Source of Error, = or excluded from CompEp by adding a statement after its composition = function is defined:  “CompEp is only defined over Ep_i !=3D 1 for all i” = .

 

Regards,

Reza

 

------_=_NextPart_001_01C70AA1.8E0B48DC-- --===============0161780784== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============0161780784==-- From gabbytrixy@nigellawrence.co.uk Sun Nov 19 09:38:36 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Glnoa-0001xc-Sc for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:38:36 -0500 Received: from i577baa35.versanet.de ([87.123.170.53] helo=pkjedlmfml) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GlnoX-0002k2-Op for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 09:38:36 -0500 Message-ID: <00c401c70be1.79a8c800.194dc0a8@alfie> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 13:49:04 +0000 From: garvey georgena User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: olwen langston Subject: Your secret? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------0000001D.01C70BE1" X-Spam-Score: 2.4 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -----------0000001D.01C70BE1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SRRL IS ABOUT TO REACH NEW HIGHS! IMMENSE MOMENTUM IS BUILDING UP! ADD SRRL TO YOUR RADAR ON MON NOV 20! Company Name: STELLAR RESOURCE NEW (OTC BB:SRRL.OB) Symbol: SRRL Price: $.85 5-day Target: $5 Current Market: Bullish OUR NEWSLETTER IS NEVER WRONG! SRRL WILL POST GAINS EXCEEDING 500%! SIT BACK AND WATCH! SRRL MAKES STUNNING ANNOUNCEMENT: • Stellar Resources, Ltd. - Company Identifies Development Target THE WESTERN CANADIAN OIL SECTOR HAS NEVER BEEN HOTTER! THE PROVINCE OF ALBERTA ALONE CONTAINS ALMOST AS MUCH PETROLEUM AS SAUDI ARABIA! WATCH SRRL TRADE STRONG ON MONDAY NOVEMBER 20TH! -----------0000001D.01C70BE1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
SRRL IS ABOUT TO REACH NEW HIGHS!
IMMENSE MOMENTUM IS BUILDING UP!
ADD SRRL TO YOUR RADAR ON MON NOV 20!

Company Name: STELLAR RESOURCE NEW (OTC BB:SRRL.OB)
Symbol: SRRL
Price: $.85
5-day Target: $5
Current Market: Bullish

OUR NEWSLETTER IS NEVER WRONG! SRRL WILL POST GAINS EXCEEDING 500%! SIT BACK AND WATCH!

SRRL MAKES STUNNING ANNOUNCEMENT:
• Stellar Resources, Ltd. - Company Identifies Development Target

THE WESTERN CANADIAN OIL SECTOR HAS NEVER BEEN HOTTER!
THE PROVINCE OF ALBERTA ALONE CONTAINS ALMOST AS MUCH PETROLEUM AS SAUDI ARABIA!
WATCH SRRL TRADE STRONG ON MONDAY NOVEMBER 20TH!
-----------0000001D.01C70BE1-- From kaybone@telekontrakt.pl Sun Nov 19 18:54:58 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GlwV0-0002ob-H5 for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 18:54:58 -0500 Received: from [222.34.88.251] (helo=hiklcdegmp) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GlwUy-0006zW-11 for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 19 Nov 2006 18:54:58 -0500 Message-ID: <009401c70c2f.21001c00.506dc0a8@junette> Date: Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:04:56 +0000 From: heindrick clotilda User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lissa lillis Subject: This will be secret Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------0000004A.01C70C2F" X-Spam-Score: 0.6 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -----------0000004A.01C70C2F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit SRRL IS ABOUT TO REACH NEW HIGHS! IMMENSE MOMENTUM IS BUILDING UP! ADD SRRL TO YOUR RADAR ON MON NOV 20! Company Name: STELLAR RESOURCE NEW (OTC BB:SRRL.OB) Symbol: SRRL Price: $.85 5-day Target: $5 Current Market: Bullish OUR NEWSLETTER IS NEVER WRONG! SRRL WILL POST GAINS EXCEEDING 500%! SIT BACK AND WATCH! SRRL MAKES STUNNING ANNOUNCEMENT: • Stellar Resources, Ltd. - Company Identifies Development Target THE WESTERN CANADIAN OIL SECTOR HAS NEVER BEEN HOTTER! THE PROVINCE OF ALBERTA ALONE CONTAINS ALMOST AS MUCH PETROLEUM AS SAUDI ARABIA! WATCH SRRL TRADE STRONG ON MONDAY NOVEMBER 20TH! -----------0000004A.01C70C2F Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
SRRL IS ABOUT TO REACH NEW HIGHS!
IMMENSE MOMENTUM IS BUILDING UP!
ADD SRRL TO YOUR RADAR ON MON NOV 20!

Company Name: STELLAR RESOURCE NEW (OTC BB:SRRL.OB)
Symbol: SRRL
Price: $.85
5-day Target: $5
Current Market: Bullish

OUR NEWSLETTER IS NEVER WRONG! SRRL WILL POST GAINS EXCEEDING 500%! SIT BACK AND WATCH!

SRRL MAKES STUNNING ANNOUNCEMENT:
• Stellar Resources, Ltd. - Company Identifies Development Target

THE WESTERN CANADIAN OIL SECTOR HAS NEVER BEEN HOTTER!
THE PROVINCE OF ALBERTA ALONE CONTAINS ALMOST AS MUCH PETROLEUM AS SAUDI ARABIA!
WATCH SRRL TRADE STRONG ON MONDAY NOVEMBER 20TH!
-----------0000004A.01C70C2F-- From j.gareis@online.de Mon Nov 20 10:56:34 2006 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmBVa-0008LX-FF; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:56:34 -0500 Received: from 158.red-83-56-183.dynamicip.rima-tde.net ([83.56.183.158]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmBVX-0007jd-Pd; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:56:34 -0500 Received: from 212.227.15.169 (HELO mx01.kundenserver.de) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (F)U77X)I>7,2 M+2K*?) id 5@1*(0-7E)?5X-A1 for ion-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:46 -0060 From: Best pharmacy To: Subject: You can buy farma here increadibly cheap Date: Mon, 20 Nov 2006 15:57:46 -0060 Message-ID: <01c70cbc$9ed606c0$6c822ecf@j.gareis> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Thread-Index: Aca6QA4(LYZB0*C?9+A696P3B.+06)== X-Spam-Score: 3.8 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 21c69d3cfc2dd19218717dbe1d974352
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,C:H:E:C:K,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, 
 
ah  us    ty    mm      al  td  ep  vh    ag 
su  ga   zeee   ok      yk  ch  eq  jrg  ymp 
fd  vj  tg  yc  jv      yo  vp  km  zgdadmrv 
dh  kr  lclyea  fp      wv  ja  au  ln bh bn 
 gmdu   nw  vs  he  kb  ay  nq  ak  fa    ko 
  lt    er  pu  kqvyfs  pz   ovsc   dn    oj 


ri  lh  yp    jc     fvzw   zogle     kq 
an  tq  wj   egpk   kz  se  fv  vp   hblm 
cr  ju  ls  zr  ji  uj      jj  ko  nc  ji 
wd  rf  sw  cwwrqj  ui ecx  mvhue   lexkdx 
 evnu   fz  ha  ei  gc  ef  og  py  lc  dk 
  mf    fl  qd  bp   puom   ot  vk  si  po 


 fypp   xi    ze    ki      qz   lwgy 
in  pt  xq   gevp   bq      ke  at  zj 
hp      ym  mh  pq  pe      ur  kik 
tc      lj  ptecon  lt      iq     iui 
nr  qq  nm  it  lo  cw  bt  bo  ly  qt 
 rlpn   is  ii  pk  nteynd  fa   wpti 


rv   lg    pa    dn  gt    jj    hu   wu 
 vf ju    gfmp   xlj bh   bifl    fp ly 
  bfr    wq  ij  xgnbzk  xo  kp    aqx 
  tiu    ffrdpe  btzppp  cbisjv    lus 
 os pa   fq  re  vq zdh  zq  lq   au ac 
ov   db  oh  el  od  nj  qa  qs  ll   mb

From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 21 12:23:47 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmZIi-00055A-ML; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:20:52 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmZIh-00054z-Ju for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:20:51 -0500 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmZIe-0007I7-At for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:20:51 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-6.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1164129647!10014154!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 12846 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2006 17:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh8i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-6.tower-121.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2006 17:20:47 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh8i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kALHJ9T4017521 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:19:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh8i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kALHJ7X1017509 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:19:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (acmt.mt.att.com[135.16.251.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061121172044gw100r41s6e>; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 17:20:44 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061121121402.01ebdc18@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 12:20:43 -0500 To: stephen wolff From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-framework-compagg-02.txt In-Reply-To: <172C3B5A-FFDA-46B6-BF87-0C1D817ECA1F@cisco.com> References: <172C3B5A-FFDA-46B6-BF87-0C1D817ECA1F@cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: d6b246023072368de71562c0ab503126 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org At 10:52 AM 11/8/2006, stephen wolff wrote: >There's more, but I've never done this before (as the Bishop said to >the actress) so I'm floating this much for a read on whether I'm >being too fussy or too ignorant or just missing the point >altogether. -s Hi Stephen, As we discussed later during IETF week, your comments are both relevant and helpful, thanks! I've incorporated them in the latest text. If there are more comments out there, it would be good to get them soon... regards, Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 21 15:42:08 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmcP4-0006fH-8T; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:39:38 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmcP3-0006ez-9W for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:39:37 -0500 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GmcOz-0003bt-Vh for ippm@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:39:37 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1164141572!14496031!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 16416 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2006 20:39:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh3i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-13.tower-121.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2006 20:39:32 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh3i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kALKdVBW009731 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:39:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh3i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kALKdNc1009639 for ; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:39:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (acmt.mt.att.com[135.16.251.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061121203923gw100r41voe>; Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:39:23 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061121143311.03221348@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Tue, 21 Nov 2006 15:39:13 -0500 To: "Fardid, Reza" From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0272092479==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --===============0272092479== Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 06:38 PM 11/17/2006, Fardid, Reza wrote:
...
5.1.5 Composition Function

If Ep_i = 1 for any i, then CompEp = 1, e.g., when active measurements over subpath i cannot be made or reported for a duration of time.

This degenerate, yet possible, case renders the resulting CompEp useless.

This case can either be included in 5.1.8 as a Source of Error, or excluded from CompEp by adding a statement after its composition function is defined:  “CompEp is only defined over Ep_i != 1 for all i” .

Hi Reza,

Thanks for your comment on the 02 version of the draft.
I think that you've actually raised several points:

* In theory, Ep_i could equal 1 on subpath i.  In that case, I don't
think the equation for CompEp is rendered useless.  A result of CompEp = 1
means that the Complete Path does not support packet transfer,
because one or more of the subpaths does not have connectivity.

* In practice, when measurements cannot be initiated on a subpath
(and perhaps the measurement system gives up during the test interval),
there won't be a Ep_i for subpath i reported, it should be designated
as "undefined".  I think we should distinguish this from the case
where the measurement system continued to send packets throughout
the test interval, but all were declared lost (as in the first bullet).
We definitely need to mention the possibility of failed measurements.
Something like:
"If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system failed
to report a value, then CompEp is undefined for that measurement interval.

* Should we include the Connectivity Metric within the scope of
this draft, and examine whether it makes sense to use a
Composed Connectivity Metric?  I don't know if this would see a
lot of use, but perhaps we should have it for completeness.

Al

--===============0272092479== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============0272092479==-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 22 19:44:41 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gn2fd-0005kd-9w; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:42:29 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gn2fb-0005kY-VD for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:42:27 -0500 Received: from panorama.covad.com ([66.134.72.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gn2fb-00009K-9y for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 19:42:27 -0500 Received: from zanxmb00a.cc-ntd1.covad.com (zanxmb00a.corp.covad.com [172.16.2.75]) by panorama.Covad.COM (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id QAA00104; Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:42:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from ZANEVS03.cc-ntd1.covad.com ([172.16.2.83]) by zanxmb00a.cc-ntd1.covad.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:42:17 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt Date: Wed, 22 Nov 2006 16:42:17 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt Thread-Index: AccNrSgPn/vF0PfMRGmkxnw8s1CISQA3hPsQ From: "Fardid, Reza" To: "Al Morton" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Nov 2006 00:42:17.0906 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A497920:01C70E98] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-7.0.0.1345-3.6.1039-14830.000 X-TM-AS-Result: No--22.609900-0.000000-31 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 9178bae9f85419fdc08e9f2c86e345d0 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============2084527388==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============2084527388== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C70E98.39EF4DD6" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C70E98.39EF4DD6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, =20 My comments are inline. =20 Regards, -Reza =20 -----Original Message----- From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com]=20 Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:39 PM To: Fardid, Reza Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt =20 At 06:38 PM 11/17/2006, Fardid, Reza wrote: ... 5.1.5 Composition Function If Ep_i =3D 1 for any i, then CompEp =3D 1, e.g., when active = measurements over subpath i cannot be made or reported for a duration of time. This degenerate, yet possible, case renders the resulting CompEp useless. This case can either be included in 5.1.8 as a Source of Error, or excluded from CompEp by adding a statement after its composition function is defined: "CompEp is only defined over Ep_i !=3D 1 for all = i" . Hi Reza, Thanks for your comment on the 02 version of the draft. I think that you've actually raised several points: * In theory, Ep_i could equal 1 on subpath i. In that case, I don't=20 think the equation for CompEp is rendered useless. A result of CompEp = =3D 1=20 means that the Complete Path does not support packet transfer, because one or more of the subpaths does not have connectivity. >> Yes, I agree. Pardon the choice of words to describe the result of CompEd. * In practice, when measurements cannot be initiated on a subpath (and perhaps the measurement system gives up during the test interval), there won't be a Ep_i for subpath i reported, it should be designated as "undefined". I think we should distinguish this from the case where the measurement system continued to send packets throughout the test interval, but all were declared lost (as in the first bullet). We definitely need to mention the possibility of failed measurements. >> In either case, whether Ep_i is "undefined" or Ep_i =3D 1 for subpath i, CompEp over the=20 >> other (remaining) subpaths is defined, measurable, and of interest.=20 Something like: "If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system failed to report a value, then CompEp is undefined for that measurement interval. >> I suggest: >> "If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system failed >> to report a value, then CompEp is only defined over the other subpaths for that >> measurement interval. * Should we include the Connectivity Metric within the scope of=20 this draft, and examine whether it makes sense to use a=20 Composed Connectivity Metric? I don't know if this would see a=20 lot of use, but perhaps we should have it for completeness. >> If anything, only for completeness. The Connectivity Metric over >> individual subpaths is relevant in the context of the above CompEp >> exception by making it a precondition to Ep_i measurement. >> However, it can be argued that using it in this context is out=20 >> of the scope of this draft and Composed metrics. Al ------_=_NextPart_001_01C70E98.39EF4DD6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi All,

 

My comments are = inline.

 

Regards,

-Reza

 

-----Original = Message-----
From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com]
Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 12:39 = PM
To: Fardid, Reza
Cc: ippm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [ippm] = Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt

 

At 06:38 PM 11/17/2006, Fardid, Reza = wrote:

...
5.1.5 Composition Function

If Ep_i =3D 1 for any i, then CompEp =3D 1, e.g., when active = measurements over subpath i cannot be made or reported for a duration of time.

This degenerate, yet possible, case renders the resulting CompEp = useless.

This case can either be included in 5.1.8 as a Source of Error, or = excluded from CompEp by adding a statement after its composition function is defined:  “CompEp is only defined over Ep_i !=3D 1 for all = i” .


Hi Reza,

Thanks for your comment on the 02 version of the draft.
I think that you've actually raised several points:

* In theory, Ep_i could equal 1 on subpath i.  In that case, I = don't
think the equation for CompEp is rendered useless.  A result of = CompEp =3D 1
means that the Complete Path does not support packet transfer,
because one or more of the subpaths does not have connectivity.

>> Yes, I agree. Pardon the choice of words to describe the result of = CompEd.


* In practice, when measurements cannot be initiated on a subpath
(and perhaps the measurement system gives up during the test = interval),
there won't be a Ep_i for subpath i reported, it should be = designated
as "undefined".  I think we should distinguish this from = the case
where the measurement system continued to send packets throughout
the test interval, but all were declared lost (as in the first = bullet).
We definitely need to mention the possibility of failed = measurements.

>> In either case, whether Ep_i is “undefined” or Ep_i =3D 1 = for subpath i, CompEp over the

>> other (remaining) subpaths is defined, measurable, and of interest. =


Something like:
"If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system = failed
to report a value, then CompEp is undefined for that measurement = interval.

>> I suggest:

>> “If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system = failed

>> to report a value, then CompEp is only defined over the other subpaths = for that

>> measurement interval.



* Should we include the Connectivity Metric within the scope of
this draft, and examine whether it makes sense to use a
Composed Connectivity Metric?  I don't know if this would see a =
lot of use, but perhaps we should have it for = completeness.

>> If anything, only for completeness. The Connectivity Metric = over

>> individual subpaths is relevant in the context of the above = CompEp

>> exception by making it a precondition to Ep_i = measurement.

>> However, it can be argued that using it in this context is out =

>> of the scope of this draft and Composed metrics.



Al

------_=_NextPart_001_01C70E98.39EF4DD6-- --===============2084527388== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============2084527388==-- From elnorarutter@ragar.com Thu Nov 23 12:58:21 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GnIq5-0002Dh-0O for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:58:21 -0500 Received: from mobile-166-214-166-006.mycingular.net ([166.214.166.6] helo=pccogjphpho) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GnIq3-0000Db-GO for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Nov 2006 12:58:20 -0500 Message-ID: <007501c70f22.2f498300.0f95c0a8@lianne> Date: Thu, 23 Nov 2006 17:09:50 +0000 From: addia shir User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: gates elisabet Subject: Be respected Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------00000083.01C70F22" X-Spam-Score: 1.6 (+) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -----------00000083.01C70F22 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Pleasure shouldnt end fast! Proove her that you love her forever! http://getyt.com/et/ Close to the shore, She looked at him the window. It was nearly Christmas, 2037. Outside, -----------00000083.01C70F22 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Pleasure shouldnt end fast!
Proove her that you love her forever!
http://getyt.com/et/
Close to the shore,
She looked at him
the window. It was nearly Christmas, 2037. Outside,
-----------00000083.01C70F22-- From cafbbbedeef@cassup.com Sat Nov 25 23:56:42 2006 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GoC4I-0007Ud-6x; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:56:42 -0500 Received: from h175.120.140.67.ip.alltel.net ([67.140.120.175]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GoC4D-0000DX-3R; Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:56:41 -0500 Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 04:56:35 +0300 From: Christmas gifts X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.00.1) Business Reply-To: cafbbbedeef X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <713609379.20061126045635@cassup.com> To: ion-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Rolex watches for a low price MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 4.2 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: c1c65599517f9ac32519d043c37c5336 He was a financier by instinct, and all the knowledge that pertained towas = quite often allowed to come to the bank on Saturdays, when he wouldwith the= ir children; and so this family, which increased at the rate ofworth much m= ore than their face value indicated.

Nice Christmas presents


 Only in our store you can find the best gifts for all your family. In our e= -shop you can find only the best replicas of the world brands. Our replicas are exactly the same as original. We are hav= ing huge sales and you can get everything with a 50% discount.

- Gucci,Prada,Louis Vuitton Bags,Vallets.
- =95 High-quality watches made with exquisite care.=
- =95 Designer Chopard,Chaumet, in a variety of colo= rs.

http://qq.babaydirect.com <= /h3>

Please send that letter to your 10 friends and you will get 90$ as a prese= nt coupon in our store.
a child every two or three years after Frank's birth until there werefiftee= n--the boy gained a wide knowledge of the condition of the countryintensely= When his father explained to him how it was mined, he dreamed From tqzushw@skekraft.net Sun Nov 26 03:54:32 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GoFmS-0005CB-K6 for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:54:32 -0500 Received: from 80.net67.skekraft.net ([213.199.67.80]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GoFmR-0000r0-9L for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sun, 26 Nov 2006 03:54:32 -0500 From: "bush cable" To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Rocket Stock Report Date: Sun, 26 Nov 2006 09:54:28 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C71140.DCA812D0" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AccRQNyobwFXuPPRT5qaqXVXXjbW9g== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C71140.DCA812D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
We Told You!!! BLNM Volume UP 4000% and Price Up 47.06%!
Can You feel The Rocket!??

Company: Bralorne Mining Company
Symbol: BLNM.OB
Price: $0.25 (+47.06% in 1 day)
3 Day Target: $0.75

The News Are Out! Read The Latest on BLNM!

BLNM.OB: Beijing QTC Launches Broadband Phone Service to Beijing Tianzh Airport.
The Bralorne Mining Company (BLNM) announced that its wholly holding subsidiary, Beijing Quan Tong Chang Information Services Limited ("Beijing QTC"), has launched "Intragroup Call," a broadband phone service, to Beijing Tianzhu Airport Industrial Zone which offers more than 300 companies and business partners in the zone broadband phone service, targeting $1.5 million annual profit.

They are working with companies such as Ericsson, SONY, JVC, AIRBUS, Panasonic and Citizen.

We knew this was going to take off but we did not expect it till Monday due to the holiday. Well today we saw it climb 47% in price and the volume is up over 4000%. WOW!

We have been told that there will be big news beginning of the week. Monday this will be off the scale. Set your buys for first thing Monday morning. We could see the 3 day projection hit in one day at this rate. Waste no time.

Grab BLNM first thing Monday Morning!!
------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C71140.DCA812D0-- From lisa.hoeppe@t-onlie.de Mon Nov 27 15:13:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gomqk-0003uh-Cf; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:13:10 -0500 Received: from [207.248.164.246] (helo=fpo.mail.dk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gomqd-0005Rv-Tm; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 15:13:10 -0500 Received: from 193.158.123.92 (HELO mail.tcommerce.de) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (0)+0I=:1 9X*(L) id 6WK7=3-,N8,.8-90 for ion-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:13:08 +0360 Message-ID: <01c71260$74c2c3b0$6c822ecf@lisa.hoeppe> From: Stock alert! To: Subject: Attention, terrific growth! Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 20:13:08 +0360 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7122E.2A2853B0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7122E.2A2853B0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Following a meetingGet VMCI First Thing tomorrow. This Is Going To Explode!= Check out for HOT NEWS!!! The alert is ON!! VEMICS INC (VMCI.PK) CURRENT_PRICE: $0.55 GET IT N0W! FTRM News: Vemics Announces $9M Acquisition of NuScribe, a Leading Medical Transcription Streamlining Provider.... Please use your brokerage site to read the full news on this exciting compa= ny. President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The government of Sudan welcomes a= ll financial, material, logistic or technical assistance from the UN in ord= er to strengthen the AU mission in Darfur." ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7122E.2A2853B0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-2" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Following a meeting
Get VMCI First Thing tomorrow. This Is Going To Explod= e!
Check out for HOT NEWS!!! The alert is ON!! =

VEMICS INC (VMCI.PK)
CURRENT_PRICE: $0.55 GET IT N0W!

FTRM News:

Vemics Announces $9M Acquisition of NuScribe, a Lea= ding Medical Transcription Streamlining Provider....

Please use your brokerage site to read the full news on= this exciting company.

President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The government of Sudan welcomes a= ll financial, material, logistic or technical assistance from the UN in ord= er to strengthen the AU mission in Darfur." ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7122E.2A2853B0-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 27 17:21:29 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GoooN-0004fY-TT; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:51 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GoooM-0004fD-8j for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:50 -0500 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GoooI-0001gx-ST for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:50 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-10.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1164665926!17281084!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 24611 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2006 22:18:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh3i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-10.tower-121.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2006 22:18:46 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh3i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kARMIjV0022166 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:45 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh3i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kARMIcBQ022087 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (acmt.mt.att.com[135.16.251.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061127221838gw10010gaje>; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 22:18:38 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061127140644.0323d418@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 17:18:38 -0500 To: ippm@ietf.org, Benoit Claise From: Al Morton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8abaac9e10c826e8252866cbe6766464 Cc: Subject: [ippm] Fwd: Review of draft-morton-ippm-delay-var-as-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org IPPM WG, Following the presentation of the Delay Variation Applicability Statement at IETF-67, Benoit Claise reviewed the draft and shared his comments with me. I have updated the draft based on Benoit's suggestions, as summarized below: * Re-wrote the Abstract. * Added references for the *many* definitions of delay variation. * Added more background on the term Jitter and why we prefer to use DV. * Clarified the Purpose and Scope section in several ways. * Reorganized the Tasks and Circumstances Section & clarified several items. * Noted that the Spatial Composition of delay variation in not trivial. * Added a new task on assessing Service Level Committments. * Inserted more introductory material where the 2 forms of DV are described. The revised version -delay-var-as-01.txt will soon be available in the Internet-Draft directories, and an HTML version is now available here: http://home.comcast.net/~acmacm/ I've also placed a side-by-side diff version there. Additional comments are encouraged. Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mon Nov 27 18:29:35 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GopsT-0002Cc-OC; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:27:09 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GopsS-0002CU-JK for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:27:08 -0500 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GopsR-0006y4-AY for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:27:08 -0500 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1164670020!16566079!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.10.7; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [134.24.146.4] Received: (qmail 16025 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2006 23:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO attrh0i.attrh.att.com) (134.24.146.4) by server-3.tower-121.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 27 Nov 2006 23:27:00 -0000 Received: from attrh.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kARNR0Jm023695 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:27:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by attrh0i.attrh.att.com (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id kARNQvaV023684 for ; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:26:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from acmt.att.com (acmt.mt.att.com[135.16.251.40](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20061127232657gw10010gbqe>; Mon, 27 Nov 2006 23:26:57 +0000 Message-Id: <7.0.1.0.0.20061127180622.03233508@att.com> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.0.1.0 Date: Mon, 27 Nov 2006 18:26:55 -0500 To: "Fardid, Reza" From: Al Morton Subject: RE: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt In-Reply-To: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: fb6060cb60c0cea16e3f7219e40a0a81 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0789137455==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --===============0789137455== Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 07:42 PM 11/22/2006, Fardid, Reza wrote:
Al wrote:
* In practice, when measurements cannot be initiated on a subpath
(and perhaps the measurement system gives up during the test interval),
there won't be a Ep_i for subpath i reported, it should be designated
as "undefined".  I think we should distinguish this from the case
where the measurement system continued to send packets throughout
the test interval, but all were declared lost (as in the first bullet).
We definitely need to mention the possibility of failed measurements.

>> In either case, whether Ep_i is “undefined” or Ep_i = 1 for subpath i, CompEp over the
>> other (remaining) subpaths is defined, measurable, and of interest.

But the CompEp that results from the composition of
sub-paths A, B, and C will be undefined if the Ep
for any of the subpaths is undefined.  Right?

                    Sub-Paths
        ++   A   ++ ++   B   ++ ++   C   ++
    Src ||.......|| ||.......|| ||.......|| Dst
        ++       ++ ++       ++ ++       ++

        ++                               ++
    Src ||...............................|| Dst
        ++        Composed Metric        ++

I think we want to concentrate on the composed metric for
one specific path.  If other composed metrics don't use
the sub-path whose results are undefined, they don't suffer from
this issue.

Something like:
"If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system failed
to report a value, then CompEp is undefined for that measurement interval.

>> I suggest:
>> “If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system failed
>> to report a value, then CompEp is only defined over the other subpaths for that
>> measurement interval.

This might be more clear:
If any Ep_i is undefined in a particular measurement interval,
possibly because a measurement system failed to report a value,
then any CompEp that uses subpath i for that measurement interval
is undefined.

Al
--===============0789137455== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============0789137455==-- From hootvqikd@bradcosupply.com Tue Nov 28 01:04:12 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gow4i-0007tR-4K for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:04:12 -0500 Received: from [222.131.119.204] (helo=[222.131.119.204]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gow4g-0004Gg-Fx for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 01:04:12 -0500 From: "Business FeedVisit" To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Wall Street Pulse Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2084 14:03:13 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_021E8680.0E60DB20" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AR6GgA5gH23znTRNTeKp9itOMxZmzQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: X-Spam-Score: 2.7 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d ------=_NextPart_000_0001_021E8680.0E60DB20 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BLNM Price Climbs 92% and Volume is up 10,000% In Just Two Days Trading!
It's not to late to get in!

Company: Bralorne Mining Company
Symbol: BLNM.OB
Price: $0.31 (+92% in 2 days)
5 Day Target: $1.15

Look At The Huge Climb UP 92% Since Nov 22nd

BLNM took new direction and acquired "Beijing QTC", Beijings largest provider of Public Payphone services. Beijing QTC currently controls 34% of the market. Since this news came out BLNM has gone from $0.17 on Wed Nov 22nd to $0.31 Today and volume has gone through the roof.

Read The News.

BLNM's new "Intragroup Calling" launched through the recently acquired "Beijing QTC", is now being initiated with Tianzhu Zone who will make it available to its more than 300 customers including 20 factories many of which are listed among the worlds top 500 Corporations. This new service from Beijing QTC is expected to increase annual profits by over $1.5 Million Annually.

Get On Board!

This one is not done yet. More news is expected tomorrow, that will push this even higher. Grab BLNM first thing Tuesday morning and turn some serious profits.

Buy it on Tuesday, become rich on Friday.
------=_NextPart_000_0001_021E8680.0E60DB20-- From aprilettetann@antiksyd.dk Tue Nov 28 05:45:01 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp0ST-0004EL-Mt for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:45:01 -0500 Received: from p508c7971.dip.t-dialin.net ([80.140.121.113] helo=hlli) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp0SR-00063Z-3E for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 05:45:01 -0500 Message-ID: <00d201c712d3.68437800.0e5cc0a8@randolph> Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 09:56:00 +0000 From: clark delila User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.5 (Windows/20060719) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: luelle sibella Subject: Fw: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="---------0000003E.01C712D3" X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a This is a multi-part message in MIME format. -----------0000003E.01C712D3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Want to be BETTER then pornstar? Amaze youre girlfriend http://gerigo.com/et/ because the Moon money right now. -----------0000003E.01C712D3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Want to be BETTER then pornstar?
Amaze youre girlfriend
http://gerigo.com/et/
because the Moon
money right now.
-----------0000003E.01C712D3-- From class@landkreis-northeim.de Tue Nov 28 11:19:07 2006 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp5fn-00079v-GS for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:19:07 -0500 Received: from 235.81-167-82.customer.lyse.net ([81.167.82.235]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp5fj-0001jn-L9 for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 11:19:06 -0500 Received: from PVfSBw ([140.192.8.164]) by qfatngkmggop with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:19:23 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c71308$ecfc91f0$00000000@ligo> From: "locked archaic" To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: society vital Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 17:19:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C71311.4EC0F9F0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1437 X-Spam-Score: 4.7 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: e8c5db863102a3ada84e0cd52a81a79e ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C71311.4EC0F9F0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0005_01C71311.4EC0F9F0" ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C71311.4EC0F9F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rpm these predicted computing corporate into existing too disruptive. = Iln riaa settles lawsuits recording says? York divided, according floor, dedicated. Factiva reputation manager = scheduled. Buying attempts block outsells, ebriefs code. Give children gift clir aug! Become necessary, defend trademarks vigorously lose. Filed against = accused illegally permitting. Traveling further visit chinese revises. = Integrates miners crawlers scalable standards! Response strong criticism = american, ala derisive remarks, he. Offer apply already targets. = Foldquot, members database proposal. Destroy copies, downloaded songs = agree quotnot make public. Day we plan entire. Languages currently covers large majority cover. = What, progress being do so. Steer callers maze options quotthey series. Pixels page speed, accuracy clear accurate displays. Disruptive instead = hail princeton mit california berkeley. Schusters, posted flagging, changes red. Clear accurate displays lead motion picture screens. Engine that hunts = images only thats basic concept behind. Foldquot members database, = proposal, two expressed skepticism, protection, bill? Posted flagging changes red edition living history. Computers america plans file, hundreds october. Freely future deal delivers such assurances this. Lloyd, securities seized bump wolters, stock belief, signals likelihood. ------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C71311.4EC0F9F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D"rapidlyand"
Rpm these predicted computing corporate = into=20 existing too disruptive. Iln riaa settles lawsuits recording = says?
York divided, according floor, = dedicated. Factiva=20 reputation manager scheduled.
Buying attempts block outsells, ebriefs = code.
Give children gift clir = aug!
Become necessary, defend trademarks = vigorously=20 lose. Filed against accused illegally permitting. Traveling further = visit=20 chinese revises. Integrates miners crawlers scalable standards! Response = strong=20 criticism american, ala derisive remarks, he. Offer apply already = targets.=20 Foldquot, members database proposal. Destroy copies, downloaded songs = agree=20 quotnot make public.
Day we plan entire. Languages currently = covers=20 large majority cover. What, progress being do so.
Steer callers maze options quotthey = series.
Pixels page speed, accuracy clear = accurate=20 displays. Disruptive instead hail princeton mit california = berkeley.
Schusters, posted flagging, changes = red.
Clear accurate displays lead motion = picture=20 screens. Engine that hunts images only thats basic concept behind. = Foldquot=20 members database, proposal, two expressed skepticism, protection, = bill?
Posted flagging changes red edition = living history.
Computers america plans file, hundreds = october.
Freely future deal delivers such = assurances this.
Lloyd, securities seized bump wolters, = stock=20 belief, signals likelihood.
------=_NextPart_001_0005_01C71311.4EC0F9F0-- ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C71311.4EC0F9F0 Content-Type: image/gif; name="places.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000301c71308$ecfc91f0$00000000@ligo> R0lGODlhtAEEAYcJAAYHAIkHCgyFAIiADQAAeosNjQuLh7exy8ndzpvW9EclAF4gAIwnA6ESAMEn CdEkAAA5DBJLCU4+AGRFAIlIB6g+CMJHAOY7AABRCxRfCTpUAFVoAIJVB51bBbxqAN1cBAF9ACR0 ADWKAGd7AImMAJiOCbVxAN5xBwqVACuqAE2ZC2aYC3eiBqusALegANegBgC0AiPMADHHAGnBBXu1 B5zAAL2yCNa9CgDcACvsATnYBF3fAIziBKjUAMrjDdnaAA0APRcANTYBNFkAQogAS54MSLcANOIA QgAjSC4oTjsgNm4nTHsXRZETOsgjQdsoQQBGMRpMSUdMRWA4NIU6Qp9IOskzQdk1PAdXRxJmQENe TFxtNYtXAKpiMcFYN9dtSwl+TBaBRkF0QWd6SoBxNKh6QbOMS+59RACWOiKoPkGsS1SZM3SUO6iq R7OsTeeVTAK/OCyzRD3ISFXEOIHAQ6KyRc60Od7INgDUMhXoPknsOlLZMYnVMaveNMzdO+vePwwA cREAcUQAg2wEfIEEeJ8Eh8kAieMCigAdcRMshkEug2cYcogef6AsdsMcgegndABDfi1OgzZFeFs2 eYU0g5VIib5Nf+Q5cgBUdSxqcklsc1hkhIBRfqZofs5tiexbhwONeCh/jUuCh2yIhHp/cahxicd2 i+6HfACWfxKZikaWh1uXdXWrhK2Xi7+YgO6TeAC1jSPIczK7ilaxfoq+h6W7isi1dN7DdgDfgxnq d0zjd2LefnnTi6HrdL7tjtTkcgAJuBgAyz4Ax1QLu3wGwKkAsbgGwdcBzgAnzBstzkgsvVgqvYMn vpoqu74ss+oSwQBOtyg2zUwxyWxOu4gzwp9IxcUyxe5CuQBqyR5iyUlVvmJXwo1Vv5NawcNkutlm yAF4xxF2yT54wlmKu3mCuKZ8vct+y+1+ywKktiuSuUufv2Otw42quJibvsyuvdKtsgDIyRS7ykO5 v1i+xXvAsq3Ls/H+6K2rpXV3hP8MCgP/AP//CwsD+/0L/wD/+Pz2+CH5BACHoq0ALAAAAAC0AQQB Bwj/AO0JHEiwoMGDCBMqXMiwocOHECNKnEixosWLGDNq3Mixo8ePIEOKHEmypMmTKFOqXMmypcuX MGPKnEmzps2bOHPq3Mmzp8+fQIMKHUq0qNGjPP8pXcq0qdOnUKNKnUq1qtWrWLNq3cq1q9evYMOK HUu2rNmzaNOqXcu2rdu3cONORUq3rt27ePPq3cu3b0a5gAMLHky4sOHDXv0qXsy48ULEkCNLnky5 smXHmDNrzmu5s+fPoEOLjrq5tOnTqFOrXs0a4ejXsGPLnn22te3buDXS3s27t+/fwIMLH068uPHj yJMrX868uXPAuaNLn67wufXr2LNr3869O1Tq4MNH//dOvrx5seLTq099vr3791LXy59/O0CAgvbt 2d+/Xz//+wPlhx+AB/0n0H8GIlggfwQJ2CCB/jG4oIEHQlihfwY5SN+GIl1lX1MffuiUiP+QWGIA TJkIIopKqegiiyemSOJ+Lb5YI4wxjoijiCrmaGKP8AX52owsAknkijVGBaSMSCa5lI0n/lgkjlJJ 6SSTTi4p5JaCQeSggBoGSGCYYFr44EJkjqnmghh+eV+YCmlYZoZrYsjhnTK5WaGCeg4I54BxWtin nYDmp+efCCFY55liIornoxhlFSKMRk4JlZYyVtqklTr6aCmRNHb6pKVNjsrlqbFNaqqOoT6FqahY jv/a6pVMHqlqqbEm2SOUqPYK2q05bkrlqh5SCSWnSEoJLLG5xrirscP6Km1bEvUnJpsX0hlRmoBm 6222clrLrbZnwjkupOhupNWsmjJLq6uUDstrsK2G+uKUO0aLLLLu0srvtABbVW24fApqMEMUdnst o3uGS27DiCrqp7UKM0zoxelmHPDGHHfs8ccgM5XxyCSXbPLJKKes8sost+zyyzDHvJIAAhBEs801 06yzzvbcjHPPO/NskM8/B10zQ0QbnbTQAhHd9NEyR03RVTQvtbPVAvxT9VNba52111V1jTXYSokN ldlMba3212ijHfLboK29dtlfO9X13FS1nbXYbtP/3ffdbAdud91wF97lQz7v/PTiCN28dENOL+50 5ENDXdDjQGdeudScS4SV3IJ7bXTafCvNNeF0k526VG6XnnrrqBsu+1sQOX607Yw3PrnlCVGOe+69 8w480LgrPnznyGtkvPGa62455Qf5nnPQkAsPPc6J3y588twTlNXVotfdN9iAhx171eOffX7spJON 9+zwuxXR8kxfj/n1l1s//fy846959t0LYHU+VzrxsU9175uK61RnFbOlD28JjJ8E0SKR3WGPepGz ndGCxzz/5Y9+Ctkd5gRIwgma8IRbIaEKNYbCFrrwhTCMoQxnSMMa2lCCK8zho27Iw8Lp8Icb6qEQ /0EGxCKuZ4hITKISl1gcIzoxPEyMIpeeSMUqWvGKKpGiFuGDxS568YtgjMgWx0jGMpqRWmFMI2PO yEbsqPGNfmmjHOdIxzoqBY541Isd90icPPrRLnwMJHD+iJEPfOAhhmxNIiEFgEY2kiaLjOQhDUnJ Q9qjkpPEZEEwmUmBLPKSlQRlKD/pyVFSciChLOUpDcJJUZZSlKskCClTCUpUWrIitGylKkn5ylrW spWShCUvhdnLYOLpkTcxZiJ5OUxfbvKWxbQkM6HpzGr20pfKpKY1V/nJZjozm7a0iDGvac1nRnOb 0uxkQoK5zFt6Uz3ILIgjASCQeTqynvMcSD7tYf9PfPqTn/QMJzbVKVBzslKbqRzmNGWJ0HQydKAH fWY7C/pQcrbzot3kZiwt6s6OHgScv2zoOD/qUFqScz7x1GdAH8lSerb0nyoFqD+RSdOA2lKXmtxl RSU6S4/y1KEMzShHIfpTnQo1okM96kRD2tCdHtWgwtToRjO6UYFeFKkbSuk/X8rVlXr1njXFp1Z/ qtF1+hSqTm3qTg06UoxqE52wpGhBe/rNkmqymXS95jtvmlO8npWkUsUqfcYa1q7KVKaF9apYbQrY vr5Vr29VaFnRWs5zVnOifjVnLiP716VCdKGCfeped5lQkQIVIdMELYe0mljEulSxrT2sbGdr2cr/ QpakbD3tSb05TpBKNrd/pShIP2tX1Oo2r2vtLTXZqdaFIne1+4zua117z8VOV7YpHatyTTlVzpoS sqcEJnclSdWzpja86QyucLurTvLqlqeUdWxFy7tUtwIVtCON2Vgdsl+VjZY6/01Zfxky4JQFODcH No0gF8wbQjq4KG5pJFUkzOAKm8WeWaGwVDSclXzkQykeBvGHPUziEX/4HyEucYgtvEQOZxgAE4bx VlZMYxM3pcYoPjGLo+hiCkvYnj6e51KE/I8gYwXHOU7yjUks4h3PECLSnel0X+paKcPUISomsUBU TBAPD4TLD6ZiTVtL5TJfdyJZ9rI91FwQNrM5/8xi/ipspzxnK1MkzfnYcp7brOU17xnOnNuKhgcN 4x8XWsaGVkqiiyzjI594xUpeCo4h7WQlYnjIjU60oR2JaSMzWitIznGJlZxiFVe6hRcpMKBX/RJV mwTPsI41mFndslPb+ta4bs9dDnGIkfCaJL+mtWaucummuFguvGYKr5P9lGUfYinObvazqcLsfzib 2ctWSrW1Pe1cJ+chYa3Jte0R7GATpNy9RrdBzC0QdpPb3e1Ot7zfXRB4C3s1iTXzmG3qaog4eyDq rnev6X3ugQPc4AdfN8LjzfB/K/zejiE2og898U9jWtEVH0u0uc1xp2wc2t0GucdD3nFldzvb2/8W ube7c2lCWxzjRD7LxrFNcmtPu9opL/m1s13ynouc5z5fOXZ6nOlDM+XYaIk2zUfe8ZwHPecpd7rS T15zoVuH6BfnsKeR/pWpN/3mYLd5VKBe821L/dnJxnnVre4crGMc5hN3ucY/Tneq0/zjKs87t9Uu 7b3rne1CdPrc3SJ4wPdm1wv3iL07sniI88XwkE+L4yd/l37ThLGU7x6QFWJ5efZTI6rGPD8z3znL d94gp29IgfdJW9LDLPTSDfd+s1vd2O97sTB1KUF07/qofd7zV65y64ffUsUKn8q5H309l9/7kQma 4ka3eMs5/RStC1num+Y012EO90ZHvoXHNvL/1qnvFOxHX/rnf/uGi3z076PQ00evOPy3b/6Xi1/+ 3u8x+4fs/veT39hEVmz0l3/XR4DUF3MHWHT6138coxKpx1+iB27NpzJysX3PZ4ETxoBwM4Ec2BEa +IEp1IEiOIIkWIIm6BMgmIJXcYIs2IIu+IIwqC4qOIPxEYM2SIM4mIM6uIM8SBo2GIM9GIRC+IE/ CIRDqIJFmIRKuIRM2IROSEhHiIRPOIVUWIVWaERRmIVamGsPwQ9e6IUC8YVgGIZiyA8D8YVnaIb2 AIZiuIZjOIZuiIYEIYdsWIZuSIZ4GIdwSIZyqId1OId2yIeAiIZlaIaBmIdXKINV4YVKwYiM//gP j/iITfGFS+GI/FCJlwiJkZiJkugUlKiJoMgUm9iIl9iJk8iJqHiKopiJp8iKpviKqUiKW1gYoziK obiKoSiGuKiJlniLT6GLvbiLtciKnhiLsLiLuGiLmKiKsuiLswgYZdiMm/iJoDiNzAiMpUiMxdiL 0UiKhYiJppiLqPiJndiN1eiK5KiLt6iMzwiNqWiO4RiM1CiN2ciN83iOwbiK38iM4CiJx7iMqhiP 2ciP7NiO6OEQb2iICpmGBVGICrmHCamHd4iIeNiGe8iHh8iQgDiRHEmRF+mQDbmQG5mHF5mIF3EV w0iPBDmQ/miMtviPlBiO4viL2viSNUmM///ojPmokgZJi+rYkrwYk+g4k9jojf14k0a5jzPpjQK5 jN8YjU85lN0YlfMokz15lViZlU5mks2nlWzHlb2Hki4JjkeJjkIJkAA5jEWJj+noleTRhWoYkYI4 khTJkR8Zl3jZkRP5hyEJlrghljy5k0C5ktf4jtoYlM2IjG55Kg4plTg5lK2ojvo4lZK5jpJplYv5 Ho3plI+JlmgpkPsok4OpmJkpJJsZlNQ4mp95mKcJmrFImqVpHREhl3aphh15lxrZl7Wpm3zpl+lC m3AYnLaJkSKplyRpm4W4lw9Jh8Ppm875nNAZna4Rm7cmnfdGndVpnbSGndzZnd75neAZnt+toZ2s Jp4VRp7laZ7quZ5chJ7u+Z4sxJ57BJ/0WZ9BJJ/4mZ/aYZ9QqJ90xJ9/5J//CaB5JKBzRKAFaqAK uqAM+p0IikcNGqESGhsPCkcTOkYVmqEauhkXukUb+qEgGkcdKkUhWqImWhcjSqInakUp2qIuShgr GqMyOqM0WqNH9KI4mqNoZKM/pKM++qNAumA8OqREWqRGeqR0EaRKuqRZgaQlxKRQGqVP4aQCFBAA Ow== ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01C71311.4EC0F9F0-- From kamini@rogers.com Tue Nov 28 12:12:10 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp6V8-0001Hg-O2; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:12:10 -0500 Received: from clw215.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.31.124.215]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp6V4-0003yg-4r; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 12:12:10 -0500 Received: from 206.190.37.6 (HELO mx2.rog.mail.yahoo.com) by lists.ietf.org with esmtp (GPP X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.11) UNREG / CD5BF9353B3B7091 X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <295252305.18779531320894@thebat.net> To: ion-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: You can buy a lot of replica for xmas here MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam: Not detected X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: de4f315c9369b71d7dd5909b42224370 Big Xmas sale for replica His Foreign Minister Lam Akol specified that "there should be no talk about a mixed force". His Foreign Minister Lam Akol specified that "there should be no talk about a mixed force". His Foreign Minister Lam Akol specified that "there should be no talk about a mixed force". On Thursday, UN chief Kofi Annan had said a compromise had been reached for a hybrid UN-AU force, to break the deadlock over the Darfur mission. More than 200,000 people have died in three years of conflict in the region. President Omar al-Bashir told state TV: "The government of Sudan welcomes all financial, material, logistic or technical assistance from the UN in order to strengthen the AU mission in Darfur."

Louis Vuitton, Chanel, Hermes, Tiffany & Co. and More

Handbags, Wallets, Bracelets, Tons of Accessories

HURRY! Special Ends Soon!


Buy nice replica for Christmas


Chad in anti-Sudan alliance He told the BBC there would be no UN troops. From nknyqkvksuo@t-dialin.net Tue Nov 28 13:48:04 2006 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp7zw-0005bq-Lk for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:48:04 -0500 Received: from pd9e4fd99.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.228.253.153]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gp7zt-0003ne-AY for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:48:04 -0500 From: "managment" To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Wall Street Pulse Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 19:52:50 -0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0002_01C71326.C8E90D70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook, Build 11.0.5510 Thread-Index: AccTJsjpz1KgNdrtTFeEiUhgXJfcXQ== X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2869 Message-Id: <7F632B75E9A2C32.C415C12D65@t-dialin.net> X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C71326.C8E90D70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
BLNM Price Climbs 92% and Volume is up 10,000% In Just Two Days Trading!
It's not to late to get in!

Company: Bralorne Mining Company
Symbol: BLNM.OB
Price: $0.31 (+92% in 2 days)
5 Day Target: $1.15

Look At The Huge Climb UP 92% Since Nov 22nd

BLNM took new direction and acquired "Beijing QTC", Beijings largest provider of Public Payphone services. Beijing QTC currently controls 34% of the market. Since this news came out BLNM has gone from $0.17 on Wed Nov 22nd to $0.31 Today and volume has gone through the roof.

Read The News.

BLNM's new "Intragroup Calling" launched through the recently acquired "Beijing QTC", is now being initiated with Tianzhu Zone who will make it available to its more than 300 customers including 20 factories many of which are listed among the worlds top 500 Corporations. This new service from Beijing QTC is expected to increase annual profits by over $1.5 Million Annually.

Get On Board!

This one is not done yet. More news is expected tomorrow, that will push this even higher. Grab BLNM first thing Tuesday morning and turn some serious profits.

Buy it on Tuesday, become rich on Friday.
------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C71326.C8E90D70-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Tue Nov 28 18:04:20 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpBx8-0000Sy-TG; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:01:26 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpBx4-0000G1-Rd; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:01:22 -0500 Received: from nit.isi.edu ([128.9.160.116]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpBx2-0001ZD-Fq; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 18:01:22 -0500 Received: from nit.isi.edu (loopback [127.0.0.1]) by nit.isi.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11) with ESMTP id kASN1H77006975; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:01:17 -0800 Received: (from apache@localhost) by nit.isi.edu (8.12.11.20060308/8.12.11/Submit) id kASN1HOa006974; Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:01:17 -0800 Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 15:01:17 -0800 Message-Id: <200611282301.kASN1HOa006974@nit.isi.edu> To: ietf-announce@ietf.org, rfc-dist@rfc-editor.org From: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org X-Spam-Score: -14.8 (--------------) X-Scan-Signature: d185fa790257f526fedfd5d01ed9c976 Cc: ippm@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org Subject: [ippm] RFC 4737 on Packet Reordering Metrics X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. RFC 4737 Title: Packet Reordering Metrics Author: A. Morton, L. Ciavattone, G. Ramachandran, S. Shalunov, J. Perser Status: Standards Track Date: November 2006 Mailbox: acmorton@att.com, lencia@att.com, gomathi@att.com, shalunov@internet2.edu, jperser@veriwave.com Pages: 45 Characters: 94699 Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso: None I-D Tag: draft-ietf-ippm-reordering-13.txt URL: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc4737.txt This memo defines metrics to evaluate whether a network has maintained packet order on a packet-by-packet basis. It provides motivations for the new metrics and discusses the measurement issues, including the context information required for all metrics. The memo first defines a reordered singleton, and then uses it as the basis for sample metrics to quantify the extent of reordering in several useful dimensions for network characterization or receiver design. Additional metrics quantify the frequency of reordering and the distance between separate occurrences. We then define a metric oriented toward assessment of reordering effects on TCP. Several examples of evaluation using the various sample metrics are included. An appendix gives extended definitions for evaluating order with packet fragmentation. [STANDARDS TRACK] This document is a product of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF This is now a Proposed Standard Protocol. STANDARDS TRACK: This document specifies an Internet standards track protocol for the Internet community,and requests discussion and suggestions for improvements.Please refer to the current edition of the Internet Official Protocol Standards (STD 1) for the standardization state and status of this protocol. Distribution of this memo is unlimited. This announcement is sent to the IETF list and the RFC-DIST list. Requests to be added to or deleted from the IETF distribution list should be sent to IETF-REQUEST@IETF.ORG. Requests to be added to or deleted from the RFC-DIST distribution list should be sent to RFC-DIST-REQUEST@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Details on obtaining RFCs via FTP or EMAIL may be obtained by sending an EMAIL message to rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG with the message body help: ways_to_get_rfcs. For example: To: rfc-info@RFC-EDITOR.ORG Subject: getting rfcs help: ways_to_get_rfcs Requests for special distribution should be addressed to either the author of the RFC in question, or to RFC-Manager@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Unless specifically noted otherwise on the RFC itself, all RFCs are for unlimited distribution. Submissions for Requests for Comments should be sent to RFC-EDITOR@RFC-EDITOR.ORG. Please consult RFC 2223, Instructions to RFC Authors, for further information. The RFC Editor Team USC/Information Sciences Institute ... _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 29 02:55:30 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpKEy-0002hC-Ky; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:52:24 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpKEx-0002dj-NC for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:52:23 -0500 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.0.199]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpKEw-0000HX-CM for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 02:52:23 -0500 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id 494F02408B; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:51:47 +0100 (CET) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9051D24075 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:51:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (chimp.ripe.net [193.0.1.199]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 890BD2F583 for ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 08:51:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <456D2557.2050902@ripe.net> Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 07:14:47 +0100 From: Henk Uijterwaal Organization: RIPE NCC User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.8 (Windows/20061025) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] RFC 4737 on Packet Reordering Metrics References: <200611282301.kASN1HOa006974@nit.isi.edu> In-Reply-To: <200611282301.kASN1HOa006974@nit.isi.edu> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.165981 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: 6c4d06384e7d74e0bfa265fcc11c8f0e X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Dear Authors, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org wrote: > A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries. > > > RFC 4737 > > Title: Packet Reordering Metrics > Author: A. Morton, L. Ciavattone, > G. Ramachandran, S. Shalunov, > J. Perser Congratulations for getting this RFC published, Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ # Lawyer: "Now sir, I'm sure you are an intelligent and honest man--" # Witness: "Thank you. If I weren't under oath, I'd return the compliment." _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Wed Nov 29 13:57:45 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpUb9-0000T4-JQ; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:55:59 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpUb8-0000St-5Z for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:55:58 -0500 Received: from panorama.covad.com ([66.134.72.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpUb6-00025g-Gr for ippm@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 13:55:58 -0500 Received: from zanxmb00b.cc-ntd1.covad.com (zanxmb00b.corp.covad.com [172.16.2.76]) by panorama.Covad.COM (8.9.3/8.8.7) with ESMTP id KAA24898; Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:55:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from ZANEVS03.cc-ntd1.covad.com ([172.16.2.83]) by zanxmb00b.cc-ntd1.covad.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:55:19 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt Date: Wed, 29 Nov 2006 10:55:16 -0800 Message-ID: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt Thread-Index: AccSe5HBkayQFz/QS9W+SRDbXR/WmwBYsusA From: "Fardid, Reza" To: "Al Morton" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Nov 2006 18:55:19.0037 (UTC) FILETIME=[EA2A6AD0:01C713E7] X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: SMEX-7.0.0.1345-3.6.1039-14842.003 X-TM-AS-Result: No--25.045600-0.000000-31 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: abb8110dde048486ea2be9c769692569 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1068415742==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============1068415742== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C713E7.E8C0C01C" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C713E7.E8C0C01C Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Comments inline. =20 Thanks, -Reza -----Original Message----- From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com]=20 Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:27 PM To: Fardid, Reza Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: RE: [ippm] Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt =20 At 07:42 PM 11/22/2006, Fardid, Reza wrote: Al wrote: * In practice, when measurements cannot be initiated on a subpath (and perhaps the measurement system gives up during the test interval), there won't be a Ep_i for subpath i reported, it should be designated as "undefined". I think we should distinguish this from the case where the measurement system continued to send packets throughout the test interval, but all were declared lost (as in the first bullet). We definitely need to mention the possibility of failed measurements. >> In either case, whether Ep_i is "undefined" or Ep_i =3D 1 for subpath i, CompEp over the=20 >> other (remaining) subpaths is defined, measurable, and of interest.=20 But the CompEp that results from the composition of=20 sub-paths A, B, and C will be undefined if the Ep for any of the subpaths is undefined. Right? =20 >>> Yes. Sub-Paths ++ A ++ ++ B ++ ++ C ++ Src ||.......|| ||.......|| ||.......|| Dst ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ ++ Src ||...............................|| Dst ++ Composed Metric ++ I think we want to concentrate on the composed metric for one specific path. If other composed metrics don't use=20 the sub-path whose results are undefined, they don't suffer from=20 this issue. =20 >>> Yes, true. In practice, I would only be interested in those >>> other composed metrics, whose results are defined, and not equal >>> to 0 or 1. I realize this is more a measurement methodology and reporting=20 >>> issue, rather than a metrics definition issue. Something like: "If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system failed to report a value, then CompEp is undefined for that measurement interval. >> I suggest: >> "If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system failed >> to report a value, then CompEp is only defined over the other subpaths for that >> measurement interval. This might be more clear: If any Ep_i is undefined in a particular measurement interval,=20 possibly because a measurement system failed to report a value,=20 then any CompEp that uses subpath i for that measurement interval=20 is undefined. =20 >>> Yes, it is. Al ------_=_NextPart_001_01C713E7.E8C0C01C Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Comments inline.

 

Thanks,

-Reza

-----Original = Message-----
From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com]
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 3:27 PM
To: Fardid, Reza
Cc: ippm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [ippm] = Comments on draft-ietf-ippm-spatial-composition-02.txt

 

At 07:42 PM 11/22/2006, Fardid, Reza = wrote:

Al wrote:

* In practice, when measurements cannot be = initiated on a subpath
(and perhaps the measurement system gives up during the test = interval),
there won't be a Ep_i for subpath i reported, it should be = designated
as "undefined".  I think we should distinguish this from = the case
where the measurement system continued to send packets throughout
the test interval, but all were declared lost (as in the first = bullet).
We definitely need to mention the possibility of failed = measurements.


>> In either case, whether Ep_i is “undefined” or Ep_i =3D 1 for subpath i, CompEp over the =
>> other (remaining) subpaths is defined, = measurable, and of interest.


But the CompEp that results from the composition of
sub-paths A, B, and C will be undefined if the Ep
for any of the subpaths is undefined.  Right?

 

      =       >>> Yes.



            &= nbsp;       Sub-Paths
        ++   A   = ++ ++   B   ++ ++   C   ++
    Src ||.......|| ||.......|| ||.......|| Dst
        ++       ++ ++       ++ ++       ++

        ++            = ;            =        ++
    Src ||...............................|| Dst
        ++        Composed Metric        ++

I think we want to concentrate on the composed metric for
one specific path.  If other composed metrics don't use
the sub-path whose results are undefined, they don't suffer from
this issue.

 

      =       >>> Yes, true.  In practice, I would only be interested in = those

      =       >>> other composed metrics, whose results are defined, and not = equal

      =       >>> to 0 or 1.  I realize this is more a measurement methodology and = reporting

      =       >>> issue, rather than a metrics definition issue.

Something like:
"If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly because a measurement system = failed
to report a value, then CompEp is undefined for that measurement = interval.


>> I suggest:
>> “If any Ep_i is undefined, possibly = because a measurement system failed
>> to report a value, then CompEp is only = defined over the other subpaths for that
>> measurement interval.


This might be more clear:
If any Ep_i is undefined in a particular measurement interval,
possibly because a measurement system failed to report a value,
then any CompEp that uses subpath i for that measurement interval
is undefined.

 

      =       >>> Yes, it is.



Al

------_=_NextPart_001_01C713E7.E8C0C01C-- --===============1068415742== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============1068415742==-- From for@everlas.com Thu Nov 30 09:06:37 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpmYf-0002n1-JR for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:06:37 -0500 Received: from host108-194-static.63-82-b.business.telecomitalia.it ([82.63.194.108]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpmYY-00021y-80 for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 09:06:37 -0500 Received: from RIARUDFZ (unknown [183.105.180.96]) by everlas.com with ESMTP id ACFD99ACD1D0 for ; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:06:47 +0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c71488$b7ea1e70$00000000@Fisso2Macro> From: "limited" To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Winners Skateboard Design is Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:06:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C71491.19AE8670" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 48472a944c87678fcfe8db15ffecdfff ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C71491.19AE8670 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_001_0006_01C71491.19AE8670" ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C71491.19AE8670 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable To grindtvcom win limited edition deck by more, info. Is over have been selected winning. Video contest upload your to grindtvcom win. Once, log, in summer = winners skateboard design. One gtgt skate video contest upload your, to. Tearing apart local pool all bp. Winners, skateboard design is over, have been selected. Is, over have = been selected winning, designs will be. Location, and some extra. Some extra, text just click the edit. Contest upload, your, to, = grindtvcom! Back great tearing apart, local pool all, bp. For, custom get one, gtgt skate video. Just click the, edit profile once = log in, summer. Get, one, gtgt skate video. Skateboard design is over have been. Video contest upload your to, = grindtvcom win limited edition? Now purchase for custom get. Summer, winners skateboard design is over, have been selected. Display location and some extra text! And some extra text just, click. Extra text just click the edit profile once! Grindtvcom win limited = edition deck. In summer winners skateboard design is. Get one gtgt skate video contest upload. More info new user profiles = allow display location. Some extra text just click the edit profile. ------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C71491.19AE8670 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
3D""
To grindtvcom win limited edition deck = by more, info.
Is over have been selected = winning.
Video contest upload your to grindtvcom = win. Once,=20 log, in summer winners skateboard design. One gtgt skate video contest = upload=20 your, to.
Tearing apart local pool all = bp.
Winners, skateboard design is over, = have been=20 selected. Is, over have been selected winning, designs will = be.
Location, and some extra.
Some extra, text just click the edit. = Contest=20 upload, your, to, grindtvcom! Back great tearing apart, local pool all, = bp.
For, custom get one, gtgt skate video. = Just click=20 the, edit profile once log in, summer. Get, one, gtgt skate = video.
Skateboard design is over have been. = Video contest=20 upload your to, grindtvcom win limited edition?
Now purchase for custom = get.
Summer, winners skateboard design is = over, have=20 been selected.
Display location and some extra = text!
And some extra text just, = click.
Extra text just click the edit profile = once!=20 Grindtvcom win limited edition deck.
In summer winners skateboard design = is.
Get one gtgt skate video contest = upload. More info=20 new user profiles allow display location.
Some extra text just click the edit=20 profile.
------=_NextPart_001_0006_01C71491.19AE8670-- ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C71491.19AE8670 Content-Type: image/gif; name="limited edition.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: <000401c71488$b7ea1e70$00000000@Fisso2Macro> R0lGODlhuAHoAIcJAAAACHcAAACAAI1yDA0If3gCcgB7h8HBsrXbxKrG4zkbAmweCnEnDakVALoY DtcVBAw/DSZNAEY2AFY9AIdJAqc3CMo3A9kzAAdhDB1aA0dgAFFmAHlTB5pbALJiDdVrAAB3Ax1z DjWHAFF+AHmAB62CALiAAOuNAACfCSmhDjOYAFqhAI2bAKqeBraZAOSuDQDJABSyADyyBWDAAHi5 AKzJDcO+AOTBCQDRACLjCETfAFzWAHPaAK7XBMTRBNPiAA4LSxIDQz0AOmEATIcHOp4HRrgNQe4M QwAeOiYdQkIRRWQhMnMiN5ciOMkSM98TSAM/OyFOS0VIQ2g4THZOTKZLRs00Ot5MRwBdSC5uTjhZ O1llM4BhAKVhSsxhROBdRAB4QiJ8SDx8OGWLTY16RKd3P8KMSe6DMwmXOSOgQzmnNVqUQI2jPaeu TribPuWdTAC5PxnOSEm0Q2WyPX/FNZLKSbrFNuPEMQbjQSnsOTXfPGjuTobWTp3cP8HdO9nSPQAA cx8HcUMHh1UAdYoAiZMAicoDdu0AcgoVhxkncTooeGUgdYkjiJIlgLwdh+ImeQszix4zfTVAcV43 i4FBiaw1jsdAdOo9fABugSlUdENmiFRWfYNfealWhLdbfuVlgwB/dRWKg0iFdFZ0iIGEg6mGeMt2 gOeGfQiWgyyadj+khViXe4efjpyWjbGugeiYcgDGeBaxdze0hmzNcouxdqO2c8Gyc+POewDiixbl dz3qc2DofYvif5rtcbzgcdbWdwAFzC0CxUYLuGMLwIEHvaEAv84GvdMAyAosxhUhxjUSumEXvYIu zKcescwVx9ktwAA4xCE7wEJHzl89s3pJuaM9ssBCyts5tQBtwCJrxTNuylxjtHFauaxXyb9huOVT vgB5zRWEtzyIv26JvYGOuZaFtct5uN59vwWdxxWVxD6tzVmqxYykw6iTzsShvtuduQDGwiS7vjXN xlPAv46zxqK7yv/3+5acqnl3ffAACgf8AvLwAAAA/v4A/wn///z//yH5BACXz3kALAAAAAC4AegA Bwj/AO0JHEiwoMGDCBMqXMiwocOHECNKnEixosWLGDNq3MixY8F/IEOKHEmypMmTKFOqXMmypcuX MGPKnEmzps2bOHPq3DnSo8+fQIMKHUq0qNGjSB3yXMq0qdOnUKNKnUq1qtWrWLNq3cq1q9evYMOK HUu2rNmzaNOqXcu2rdekcOPKnUu3rt27Gt3q3cu3r9+/gAMLHkyYJt7DiBMrXsy4sePHkCNLnkxZ YeHLmDNrplq5s+fPoEN33Ey6tOnTLUWrXs26NWjUsGPLnk27tu3bYF3r3s27t+/fwIMLH14wQICE xpEfR5ic+XLJBAgkjD5dOkLq160T3+66pnGQ3/99/w9PPoB48+fBmy+vPr377wLii4wvYL78f/Tz 08d/P+R+/vr99090IBE4IAEHFohgggY2iKCDCiYooYG4VViYcRhmuJ6GGZ7H4XgfghgigPbV5999 AeYHkoAspthfdDDG+KCMMR5II4E3wmjjjRb2eKGGI3EYJJAiCVkkkSv2pyKJSZpYUotOCngSjSNR KZKVIWGpYI0+dklYeCWBSZKYQ55EJpP6NXmik0/KJ6WUKFFIkpxVLlgSnVfa6eWeWmXEYXEaApqh oBgS2pxA9CGan6ICDJSoQvoV9KhCNBZUKUGXDpSpQJty5+ln3oW44Yiijvqhh6eiWR+KSrrIZpol pv+YZY4z5rgjlbTWyiOfvHJmUXPAHhesQMkNa0+xyw1r7KGJxmePs5M+66qkzlLroqbWYUedttlK xy2n3nYLrj3fkqvdp+hOltOZIbHbnknuujdSgAC+2d9JcDKpEp6zTqlnnf72KvDAKtFL75opwYow wQw3rJbBCutrUsQSO2zxxV8tWe+r95K0n71sYizyZb0tymijBEVrraPVSotyujDHPBpmGmvcpKz6 QonzyDz3vFTNcLq6asf/Ce3z0W7JrPTSTDft9NNQt4b01FTvFfXVWGetVNVcd+3112CHLfbYZLOk 9dlop6322my37fbbcFdW9tx012333V3FrffefPf/7fffgAcu+OCEF2744YgnjhHejDeekuKQRy75 5JTD5fjlmGeuueOVd+45QpuHXvfnpJMu+umop646waW3XvnqsMcu++y012777bhz7vruvPfuO9y5 B8/n78QXb/zxMAuv/PLMN38T8qB90JD0T1NPnE0AZJ+9Wh+I1H1I3X8g/vggjS9++eaf7336/3wP Pvjkt8+++/DHH7/86uOf//rmy++9/vcbifv697722YSAAMwfAv9XwPIl0ID/Sx/9AOjAAk6wV9sD SQbPQr8OQpCBDfygAEsywBCGjyQTTGEFRfg9D45QgC5cIQlNaMGaxFCGLEQhCA14wQ+2ECUeLGEI /3m1wZFob4NHBMA/tKfBJIbEiUuEYgaRqEQQntCBF+zhELeIRS5m8YU6FGEXt/hFIeLwhWXs3/0I GD4VgjGHJvnhGHkYRx8CMYI41CJmLJK9g/RRIH/Unj0E2UdBDhIABilkIBG5yIH8cSDWk14k7WE9 SCqkkgTBpCUnaRBNYlKTAqGeJymZyU6akpOhTAgqLUlKSk6ykpIE5ShZmUqEiHKTuDyIJGmpy1Lu 0pRZeyRBHtnIQwKSkYg8ZiKR6chkHpEht7ylK80XSmqWUpfpu2YtCyLBVmbSmq0cZTY7mU1pwlKV vKylNFN5TlB6k5fnhCY71TnObU5zfNy0pvhsqf81YTbzn8YMqCIBmkRmKvOQ/uzlK+3Jz3Q6dJ4M jag7WbnOXLpzlqSMZy8lqk5flrOh2nznRH1pUX6uEpgkRSlwaFLEJ1Yxik2MKUypCNOY0jSKLZ1h CeV4Ry6K8X1m3OEZ0XjGK/70pzsVqhXDyFM6vlGpN9QjHseoRaNK9YtIJRhNbzrFKm5vq1796ktv 6lIdJjWrO6zqDFcYxDAOkacuvGFR16dUGjawqUZ16lrz+EYzWhWCPRRiYOfKV9NgJInNNKRAnYnM Zx7zmcRMZkABys3KVlOf4IzoZfH5SUji8577HKdo97nZdH7yo54NqUozO81r6vOSn1XtPUPa2c3/ hray3Qznah9auIRKxLeUG2nahNsdr+T0JcdFoQSXy9zmOve50I2udKdL3epa97rYza52tytVriW3 Jd9lXHd7Nd7CQO+8bnOeetfL3vai973wja98FdPe+m5mvvh9mn33S7L8+ve/AA6wgAdM4AIbeGv8 TbCCF8zgBju4JgeOsIQnTOEKW9goD84ww8JrxJdqmL0XKWhFgOtHyR4kHwRB8UBQnI8Wu9geKl4x jF3c4gujV5gkXkiOC5LjGMM4xT82SIxV7GMb39jEBGUsIRfpWIRGlrICGXKQf1xkGUvZyPD1bTGX zExDDvSgTwZylKfMYoSUecxYplxNCupSroa1/6YzHeubUZIPkNS5zv/AM41bLBI823nPH7ZdV91s UznDuaspuXNIFJ1nkzC60YEe3UaYLNktG9SYYd7xmamMZiGTOc3vxXGlTWzpyX55sVAes5SJfGIZ TxnU0BMxlEstayePOtWd7vSeN63qPcMacU3hcKSH3ROf7PjXyDYIU4RN7GY7+9lYSba0p01t7kD7 2tjOdmCqzW0Ma/vbPOm2uMdN7nKbG13gTre6183udvPl3PCOt7znTe9629sz7s63vveNk8qQ494G rvUyN/JvgpDj4AU3OMIPPhCEA1xwLDX0UxZOjn9UPCQXN8nFM87vr/Hx1ohdrJebPFmB/Dvh9v9A OcoLUvCVPxxwES8rE2Xu4UNLHOMWFwnHOT6SjS+84177uGP9eeqDlvwgDG+4wRGScJW//G8x77DU W1rQmpcE4SDZucZxznWgU+3jAx/mpY3ukJanfOkGcbrSn963qIuE6kqEe1ll2vOs55zrWu/63b0+ NbDzGMmUVrKoWb7whjvc5GtXeNLZzje38JzvmfM34ydP+cpb/vKYfxvkNy8Yq3MedVX3/E2YvUST iP7zjiP9TJgNRbqjvu+HBfzQZ0/7wJMdkINMZO4zTzoSK/LWysw0qZGce8Djnvef8/3Ynyz8huDY kcjX2+hrzuYiglWKp+9wWI/4+s1Z39Dfp3n/SUjvVSN2/+uxF/tjS85kUzNW/X48PvSjDzzsUd+J cOc+Tr8/57fr/+3nB3t1cWwOQXz0918E6HwHCHNZ0XoB+IAQGIESOIEUqBkLSG4VmIEauIEc2IEe eBoXGIIiOIIkODgf2GwlSG0nSGwpOG0r+IIwGIMyWBotKG0zeIM4mIM6uIMrWIPJxoNAGIQD44PI JoRGeIQ9QoS/hoRM2ISyoYRQGIVSOIWs4YTqdRGQkIWQYA9ZSBBdyIVa+IVhGIYJ8YUCMYZbeIZj iBBm2IZbiIZvmIZqCIZrWBBwKId1aBBmCIZqqIUDsYddiIZsmId/KId06Id2aIiCWIZk2IeF/6iH cMiHjwiIcdiIkIiHmIiIkjiHl+iGiHiHmyiJe9gagaiIceiFpsgQlPiImziKnNiKpwiJnOiKg5iI rCiLooiJr8iHbngQvYiKwLiLofiLuJiLuliLt8iLqUiMqHiMv7iKtjiHzAiNs2iIeHETWfgP2RgS 2biNJuGN36iF3AgJItGN5DiOJLGNYQgS5hiO3giOKAGO8AiP7HiO7ViO5CiP+XiO2siP+IiO4/iO /iiQAgmQIzGP+6iO/niQA9mQ/fiPBZmO4viQCPmQBhmOFpmRGqmP9YgZ99iR9PiP8TiRG7mPIimS 60iRCxmQ/BiSJcGRJ8mQCsmQJZmRIRmR9f+IkzZJkjp5kSo5kxh5kR+pkj6Zk/Zokih5lCrxkTDZ kQDpkn8xlAqZkkWZlE4Jkg4pkf14j3AYk10ZlFcZljQpllKZkCQpk2cJlDCplmMIllhJlG55hzWJ hhjZjhVpkVCZkjqpj3SpkV+REaUYjNEojNEohsuYip3Yh2lIi4eYjApBjYR5i6MYmJMYi75omdW4 i4aZmYwZisqomIwomJ9ZmZ4ZjGQ4mZlojbU4jYiZmbtBmZEJmZ24maTpmKDZmKV5m7l5maK5m7Bo i6tIm7hIiY0IjYsonIMpjYupicU4jJhJmYxpmLD5ipb4mJYJmbKZGNiolHiZlWLplUjZnVWvuZVH CZRjaZ4pcZd+OZZXGZHmeZMtyZ1v6ZQc2ZMG+Z556Z3iuZ/ruZPyqZ5aOZ81KZTymRsVUZ0ISoi+ GZx5uIjISJ2CyKAK2puHqJrJWaGJyJrNOZ2laIkMSqGKeYx0GJrJ6IkiWpqeWIjMGZkqaqLWiJ3L SYUyOqM0WqNRY4U4mqM6uqM82qM+Gm02KmE/ijtBKqRDajtFmqRKyjRH2qRO+qRQGqVSCoNLWmAB AQA7 ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C71491.19AE8670-- From ggbabgbe@castanes.com Thu Nov 30 10:29:34 2006 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpnqw-0000SW-Lo; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:29:34 -0500 Received: from 53533a9e.cable.casema.nl ([83.83.58.158] helo=SNNECCI) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpnqs-0004zF-Aw; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 10:29:34 -0500 Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:29:29 -0060 From: Christmas gifts X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.0 Beta/1) Educational Reply-To: ggbabgbe X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <18755988.20061130152929@castanes.com> To: ion-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Christmas gifts! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 39bd8f8cbb76cae18b7e23f7cf6b2b9f "There's one thing I'm not going to do, I'm not going to pull our troops of= f the battlefield before the mission is complete," he said in a speech sett= ing the stage for high-stakes meetings with the Iraqi prime minister later = this week. "We can accept nothing less than victory for our children and ou= r grandchildren.""Defeating them will require the full commitment of our al= liance," Bush said.In Riga to attend a NATO summit, Bush also enlist= ed renewed commitments from the NATO allies that have deployed 32,000 troop= s to Afghanistan. He said NATO commanders must have the resources an= d flexibility to do the job =97 an apparent reference to the fact that only= a handful of countries =97 primarily Canada, Britain, the United States an= d the Netherlands =97 are doing much of the heavy lifting in the dangerous = southern provinces against a resurgent Taliban.

LUXURY REPLICAS with warranty
25% off or Free Shipping

WATCHES =95 TIES =95 JEWELRY =95 HANDBAGS =95 AND MORE
~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-~-
Rolex =95 Cartier =95 Bvlgari
Versace =95 Fendi =95 Armani
Chanel =95 Louis Vuitton =95 Hermes

Best gifts for Christm= as!

Recent U.S. elections added fuel to the argument from Democrats that U.S. s= oldiers need to come home. But Bush has resisted that, even while projectin= g the need for a different approach. From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 30 15:52:03 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpsro-0003Ke-Bg; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:48 -0500 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpsra-0002xw-Nk; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:34 -0500 Received: from ns4.neustar.com ([156.154.24.139]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1GpsrY-0005eN-Cg; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:34 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns4.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47DA12ACE2; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:50:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpsr3-0003p0-Tm; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:01 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: f66b12316365a3fe519e75911daf28a8 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-02.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP) Author(s) : J. Babiarz, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-02.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2006-11-30 The IPPM One-way Active Measurement Protocol [RFC4656] (OWAMP) provides a common protocol for measuring one-way metrics between network devices. OWAMP can be used bi-directionally to measure one-way metrics in both directions between two network elements. However, it does not accommodate round-trip or two-way measurements. This memo specifies a Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (TWAMP), based on the OWAMP, that adds two-way or round-trip measurement capabilities. The TWAMP measurement architecture is usually comprised of two hosts with specific roles, and this allows for some protocol simplifications, making it an attractive alternative in some circumstances. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-11-30140645.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-twamp-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-11-30140645.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --NextPart-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Nov 30 15:52:03 2006 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpsr8-0002t2-N5; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:06 -0500 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpsr4-0002sG-6B; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:02 -0500 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpsr3-0002P5-UY; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:02 -0500 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E116B32932; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 20:50:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1Gpsr3-0003oh-Px; Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:01 -0500 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Thu, 30 Nov 2006 15:50:01 -0500 X-Spam-Score: -2.5 (--) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-04.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Defining Network Capacity Author(s) : P. Chimento, J. Ishac Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-04.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2006-11-30 Measuring capacity is a task that sounds simple, but in reality can be quite complex. In addition, the lack of a unified nomenclature on this subject makes it increasingly difficult to properly build, test, and use techniques and tools built around these constructs. This document provides definitions for the terms 'Capacity' and 'Available Capacity' related to IP traffic traveling between a source and destination in an IP network. By doing so, we hope to provide a common framework for the discussion and analysis of a diverse set of current and future estimation techniques. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-04.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-04.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-04.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-11-30134736.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-04.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-04.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2006-11-30134736.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --NextPart--