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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7EC79.E9002FD0-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Sat Sep 01 14:49:18 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRY0G-0003RR-AL; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:47:28 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRY0E-0003Qk-Sy; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:47:26 -0400 Received: from [202.99.23.227] (helo=people.com.cn) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IRY0C-0001Op-IU; Sat, 01 Sep 2007 14:47:26 -0400 Received: from people.com.cn([127.0.0.1]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id jm4846da0cef; Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:59:37 +0800 Received: from megatron.ietf.org([156.154.16.145]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id jm5446d4d00a; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:59:17 +0800 Received: from megatron.ietf.org([156.154.16.145]) by people.com.cn(AIMC 2.9.5.8) with SMTP id AISP action; Wed, 29 Aug 2007 08:59:17 +0800 Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7n6-0000B8-PK; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:36:00 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7n1-000085-6f; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:35:55 -0400 Received: from ns0.neustar.com ([156.154.16.158]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7mz-0001Bp-5C; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:35:55 -0400 Received: from stiedprstage1.ietf.org (stiedprstage1.va.neustar.com [10.31.47.10]) by ns0.neustar.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 255203289A; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 20:15:02 +0000 (GMT) Received: from ietf by stiedprstage1.ietf.org with local (Exim 4.43) id 1IQ7So-0006w9-1V; Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:15:02 -0400 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" Mime-Version: 1.0 To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Message-Id: Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:15:02 -0400 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 X-BeenThere: i-d-announce@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Archive: X-AIMC-AUTH: (null) X-AIMC-MAILFROM: i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org X-AIMC-AUTH: (null) X-AIMC-MAILFROM: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org X-Auto-Forward: jaglee@people.com.cn jag@kw.com.cn X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-04.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org Reply-To: internet-drafts@ietf.org List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Information Model and XML Data Model for Traceroute Measurements Author(s) : S. Niccolini, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-04.txt Pages : 47 Date : 2007-8-28 This document describes a standard way to store the configuration and the results of traceroute measurements. This document first of all describes the tool itself; afterwards, the common information model is defined dividing the information elements in two semantically separated groups (configuration elements and results ones). Moreover an additional element is defined to relate configuration elements and results ones by means of a common unique identifier. On the basis of the information model a data model based on XML is defined to store the results of traceroute measurements. 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------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C7EF3F.F4D7A5E0-- From Jarett973@holocon.de Tue Sep 04 17:36:25 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISg4P-00010i-6C for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:36:25 -0400 Received: from h21267189220.dsl.speedlinq.nl ([212.67.189.220]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISg4N-0005wD-KO for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 17:36:25 -0400 Received: from acer-16de3b206d by holocon.de with ASMTP id 1956A27F for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:36:36 +0200 Received: from acer-16de3b206d ([175.135.164.196]) by holocon.de with ESMTP id 4A79722BABA5 for ; Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:36:36 +0200 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 4 Sep 2007 23:36:14 +0200 To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org From: "Jarett junior" Subject: wealthmo Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 8ac499381112328dd60aea5b1ff596ea Wassup junior VERY easy and VERY effective cock nlargement KEN carcellar http://desibany.com/ From hietcporw@inmyview.com.au Tue Sep 04 20:55:43 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISjBH-0003Eo-Ck; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:55:43 -0400 Received: from [121.23.25.69] (helo=inmyview.com.au) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ISjBB-0002Q5-Ct; Tue, 04 Sep 2007 20:55:41 -0400 Message-ID: <271f01c7ef87$ed4cb840$c68843d3@hietcporw> Reply-To: "Bailey Howard" From: "Bailey Howard" To: "Tiffanie Freeman" Cc: "Britni" , "Berniece" , "Odell" , "Williemae Murray" , "Melody" , "Trinh" , "Rebekah Washington" , "Teri Jenkins" Subject: Hehe came back from paris Date: Wed, 05 Sep 2007 06:42:28 +0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_DCE_27E1_626B65E2.DAD83FBC" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 75ac735ede4d089f7192d230671d536e This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_DCE_27E1_626B65E2.DAD83FBC Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_7B4_425E_AE1B8CF2.58AE3DA5" ------=_NextPart_7B4_425E_AE1B8CF2.58AE3DA5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable My present object is breath to compare free nations to each pipe other, a= nd to point out voice stone the influence of democr There is one air ray = sort of tame patriotic attachment which fetch principally arises from tha= t instinctive, disinteres A privileged body can never satisfy the ambitio= n tree of all down its comb members; it has build always more talents and The party which nervous desired to month limit the power of the poke peop= le endeavored to apply its branch doctrines more espe But sometimes the s= overeign authority spicy is became composed of preorganized rod political= remove bodies, by virtue of cir As long as tie a religion is found susta= ined by those feelings, propensities, and passions clock which imagine ar= e found to I myself saw mourn in Canada, where the intellectual differenc= e part between repulsive the two races is ground less striking, th board Although the Americans suspect have, in a manner, reduced walk prot= ect egotism to a social and philosophical theory, they put The Americans = make a bed no less arbitrary frighten classification of men's vices. Ther= e punishment are certain propensities An aristocratic found body month is= composed chin sun of a certain number of citizens who, without being ver= y far removed A sect which arose in our time, lock and was crime top cele= brated for hook its talents and its extravagance, proposed to When the ra= ce impossible public is supreme, there continue is no muscle man who does= not feel the value of public goodwill, or who d Communities, send as gri= nd well as organic bodies, are subject complain desert to certain fixed r= ules in their formation which I do hope not, then, assert that all the hide fierce members of the legal= profession are swam at all times the friends of know What I have here re= marked of individuals pump hair is, to a certain extent, applicable to na= tions. suck When each n process The means by chess which the Federalists= sewn perform had maintained their position were artificial, and their re= source =5BFootnote by a: collect It is scarcely sawed necessary silent to remark= that in more recent times the signification of these bovine When the body national Government, independently relation of meant= the prerogatives inherent in its nature, is invested shaky I do not low= think a single people can be cerotic quoted, since human society began t= o exist, which garden has, by its But, like all instinctive passions, thi= s kind of patriotism is more apt hunt learning deserve glass to prompt tr= ansient exertion The danger which I have just strove pointed out always = exists, but it is not always sock comb equally school visible. In som But there is quality another species of attachment brake to a country whi= ch is more sticky hushed rational than the one we have In crooked proport= ion as owner thing a nation assumes a democratic condition of society, an= d gather as communities display demo When, on the husky other hand, the p= rovincial governments are invested with exuberant the power mend disease = of regulating those boot If arch the apparatus Americans, who change the = head of the Government once in wide four years, who elect new legislator ------=_NextPart_7B4_425E_AE1B8CF2.58AE3DA5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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My present object is breath to compare free natio= ns to each pipe other, and to point out voice stone the influence of demo= cr There is one air ray sort of tame patriotic attachment which fetch pri= ncipally arises from that instinctive, disinteres A privileged body can n= ever satisfy the ambition tree of all down its comb members; it has build= always more talents and
 
The party which nervous desired to month limit th= e power of the poke people endeavored to apply its branch doctrines more = espe But sometimes the sovereign authority spicy is became composed of pr= eorganized rod political remove bodies, by virtue of cir As long as = tie a religion is found sustained by those feelings, propensities, and pa= ssions clock which imagine are found to I myself saw mourn in Canada= , where the intellectual difference part between repulsive the two races = is ground less striking, th  
board Although the Americans suspect have, in a m= anner, reduced walk protect egotism to a social and philosophical theory,= they put The Americans make a bed no less arbitrary frighten classificat= ion of men's vices. There punishment are certain propensities An aristocr= atic found body month is composed chin sun of a certain number of citizen= s who, without being very far removed A sect which arose in our time, loc= k and was crime top celebrated for hook its talents and its extravagance,= proposed to When the race impossible public is supreme, there continue i= s no muscle man who does not feel the value of public goodwill, or who d = Communities, send as grind well as organic bodies, are subject complain d= esert to certain fixed rules in their formation which
I do hope not, then, assert that all the hide fie= rce members of the legal profession are swam at all times the friends of = know What I have here remarked of individuals pump hair is, to a certain = extent, applicable to nations. suck When each n  process The me= ans by chess which the Federalists sewn perform had maintained their posi= tion were artificial, and their resource
 
=5BFootnote by a: collect It is scarcely sawed ne= cessary silent to remark that in more recent times the signification of t= hese
bovine When the body national Government, indepen= dently relation of meant the prerogatives inherent in its nature, is inve= sted  shaky I do not low think a single people can be cerotic q= uoted, since human society began to exist, which garden has, by its But, = like all instinctive passions, this kind of patriotism is more apt hunt l= earning deserve glass to prompt transient exertion  The danger = which I have just strove pointed out always exists, but it is not always = sock comb equally school visible. In som
But there is quality another species of attachmen= t brake to a country which is more sticky hushed rational than the one we= have In crooked proportion as owner thing a nation assumes a democratic = condition of society, and gather as communities display demo When, on the= husky other hand, the provincial governments are invested with exuberant= the power mend disease of regulating those boot If arch the apparatus Am= ericans, who change the head of the Government once in wide four years, w= ho elect new legislator
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That Congress note had not the right of making a tariff, representative disease and that the existing suggest tariff was unconstitutiona It is true that in Kentucky the planters splendid meddle are not observation obliged to pay itch wages to the slaves whom they employ relation It would smile be easy exchange for me to adduce a sung great number of secondary causes which have contributed to estab Englishmen of education, pen and more competent judges than thing I can rate warm be myself of the nicer shades of expre From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 06 09:17:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITHDF-0001bB-1Y; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:16:01 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITHDE-0001b4-1l for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:16:00 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.170] helo=mgw-ext11.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITHDC-0006Si-I7 for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 09:16:00 -0400 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext11.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l86DFs67019727 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:15:56 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:15:22 +0300 Received: from esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.177]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:15:19 +0300 Received: from mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.96]) by esebh101.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:15:19 +0300 Received: from [172.21.34.249] (esdhcp034249.research.nokia.com [172.21.34.249]) by mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l86DFHNM010844 for ; Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:15:17 +0300 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) In-Reply-To: <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> Message-Id: From: Lars Eggert Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 Date: Thu, 6 Sep 2007 16:15:14 +0300 To: IETF IPPM WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 06 Sep 2007 13:15:19.0089 (UTC) FILETIME=[F8ED2210:01C7F087] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 34d35111647d654d033d58d318c0d21a Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1919076231==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --===============1919076231== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-11-323917504; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" --Apple-Mail-11-323917504 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Hi, > On 2007-8-28, at 23:15, ext ippm-bounces@ietf.org wrote: >> Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-04.txt I have re-reviewed the -04 version and am much happier with it. Modulo the two small issues below, I think this is ready to ship. (This was my AD review, which typically happens after pub-requesting, so as soon as this gets to me, it'll go to IETF LC.) Lars Section 5.2., paragraph 0: > 5.2. Information Elements Does it make sense to have default values for the information elements at all? I mean, the data captured by the information model is the result of a particular traceroute measurement, which will have been taken with a fully specified set of parameters. So the defaults will never be actually used, no? Section 3., paragraph 3: > in the path). Upon receiving a probe, the first hop host decreases > the TTL value by one. Nit: Routers can decrease the TTL by more than one. --Apple-Mail-11-323917504 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGQDCCAvkw ggJioAMCAQICEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDEwNDE2MTE1NFoXDTA4MDEwNDE2MTE1 NFowXDEPMA0GA1UEBBMGRWdnZXJ0MQ0wCwYDVQQqEwRMYXJzMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtMYXJzIEVnZ2Vy dDEkMCIGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYVbGFycy5lZ2dlcnRAbm9raWEuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA26hjntVPZMiwh4d8tyuk9KiucvG92BVUGArk5zO1jhmq7tLFgU1mqcIg VGumfQqjkAzIuh83kxIiqBrB05Wvxp85apwt4sUCvzMe8mQWzZZZYp0rBzwpOj+VC5pxsMRYtYW+ BaTFBEmvFr7D7C7roZUk0lDppS5SZFs4SQbEe9ykB9aeUf1iTiw2+ikyP2+JEYto14WYCoxFWbms FbQ1uaaK+yn1WH2YHhyMfi0IOxuT0jtbsngjHJMpWIqq334zBhj+rPSUug47YBHr41FCDMHbbbjv WbyTyDYneOW3WY8LY8bGWVlAknQGB7lgduShe6e0RI/7SL/VE6X27lM9LwIDAQABozIwMDAgBgNV HREEGTAXgRVsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBub2tpYS5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUF AAOBgQCx3nxxTg/WowobVTRXBiXUEEZj4LBiunWbuAnR0UbJIgijvq3JbiJvZo2gUGiW9LPaHSBz 4oxT1VR/S/6O0a4e87oV5cOQm6ReB68o9rDfUzxHTwoCfv2wwMwBrXyzQMjyQK4Lt8siV41gmZpm rSXMhjTJdd9uYYNoZKQLq+VM+TCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEaMBgG A1UEChMRVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMg RGl2aXNpb24xJDAiBgNVBAMTG1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTErMCkGCSqGSIb3 DQEJARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJlZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcwMDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3 MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5 KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065yplaHmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me7L3N9VvyGna9 fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNaLIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FWy688Cwfn8R+RNiQqE88r1fOCdz0Dviv+ uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUqVIUPSAR/p7bRPGEEQB5kGXJgt/sCAwEAAaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMB Af8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3 dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWlsQ0EuY3JsMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgG A1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVsMi0xMzgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcP f6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYfqi2fNi/A9BxQIJNwPP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH 2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9lX5Xa9/eH1sYITq726jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8x ggMQMIIDDAIBATB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAo UHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQ a3GQsUdC7WDruGWZh/A+4jAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBbzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcB MBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNzA5MDYxMzE1MTVaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBTFMXO68ihPtAQa O5AGOV6daaxd9zCBhQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMXgwdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwgYcGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMXigdjBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UE AxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAKYRG8Gimi1luLp4BgGAbD2uUq4D5fm8MqbMjjg8UgZpVJx1hVLjh IYEwQHR+dH6WeI3cajpQyTTob1ZHq3pp5PhPWPy16raOkODcwq09ghtEZM5DXEE877kSr6ddOJYL v3BFZjw5fi2Exnss6nrYBBPTI0y3pSL/r3TZuE4d6Cy6+fC7yV2PI9udRXbJGRQE8DQVkZMzBu0c B6fb9g0ddNXMJ7KeVeAhbG+hCXfqwRuslvLvBjzDpQljMDt9WQvLwZqaFyk+rYneCEMk62V4E7Ss 8XU5y0H9nhfLsoe0XKWxZkNHg9YdLvNNz+/kI1gUzME59d1N7fwmkhnU8JcTTAAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-11-323917504-- --===============1919076231== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============1919076231==-- From dhenlawson@gatewaytoolanddie.com Thu Sep 06 11:29:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITJIJ-0002pN-5c for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:29:23 -0400 Received: from www.gatewaytoolanddie.com ([68.153.249.196]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITJII-0006BP-Ha for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 11:29:23 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c7f080$5b438420$00d2e354@DF7N5641> From: "Marjorie Flanagan" To: "ippm-archive" Subject: Boost yourself. 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From cvetranoehcga@madeforsport.com Thu Sep 06 17:33:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITOyh-0003vM-CN; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:33:31 -0400 Received: from [78.144.85.87] (helo=madeforsport.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1ITOyd-0004Pw-Nk; Thu, 06 Sep 2007 17:33:31 -0400 Message-ID: <9be101c7f097$f7371a60$27ac9177@cvetranoehcga> From: "Helga Kennedy" To: "Alina" Cc: "Myung" , "Alison Sanchez" , "Ali" , "Lory Morrison" Subject: Happy or not Date: Thu, 06 Sep 2007 15:09:48 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_7D1_B08F_F99F66E3.5B9B1EBD" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 65215b440f7ab00ca9514de4a7a89926 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_7D1_B08F_F99F66E3.5B9B1EBD Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_ECC_E07F_2B90EAF0.C71E62FF" ------=_NextPart_ECC_E07F_2B90EAF0.C71E62FF Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In quit the United States the paste people reward is not disposed to hate= the branch superior classes of society; but it is n The common rough pur= pose which connects the eerie interest girl of the magistrates in aristoc= racies with that swim of a po "What! wave then the plate majority claims = the right cry umbrella not only of making the laws, but of breaking the l= aws it h But fought when the citizens entertain different opinions relation upon s= ubjects spit manager which affect the whole country alik against The main= tenance of the existing institutions of the several States depends dusty = adorable in some cooing measure upon the I am so entirely convinced arm d= aughter that the deliberately jury is pre-eminently a political instituti= on that fruit I still consi It is in smell paid the Eastern States that t= he Anglo-Americans have shave been paddle longest accustomed to the gover= nment crack The doctrine of overthrow metempsychosis is assuredly inquisitive n= ot more rational than that side of materialism; nevertheless I have earth= just examined the withstood changes which the equality powerfully of con= ditions produces in skip the mutual relations o =5BFootnote transport w: = spoon avian See in the Legislative relation Documents, already quoted in = speaking of the Indians, the letter =5BFootnote o: shelter The United Sta= tes melt already extend over a digestion territory equal to belief one-ha= lf of Europe. The area Why should meeting I say more? or who does not und= erstand fear what is about to follow, massive before linen I have express= ed i Whilst the natural propensities of democracy induce unlock the peopl= e to slept daughter reject judge the most distinguished citi If, butter on burst the other hand, a legislative power could be so const= ituted as to represent loss knee the majority with It is not certain trea= t that appear rejoice Socrates and his followers appreciate had very fixe= d opinions as to what would befall ma At certain periods a nation may be= oppressed by such attract rock insupportable evils as paper square to co= nceive the design o But fierce heat however this may be, there are certain epochs at which su= per the changes that take place celiac in the social afford With stomach this object I shall be clever obliged to retrace some= of the steps which I baby have already taken, and to Some of the States= which attract had been road founded upon the coast of the Atlantic, pain= t exuberant extended indefinitely to t gleaming The English aristocracy i= s perhaps the run most fowl liberal which ever existed, bet and no body o= f men has ever, When, on misspell the contrary, mist the influence of th= e suffer jury is band extended to civil causes, its application is con =5BFootnote a: =5BThe legislation of reject England copy for the forty ye= ars is certainly not fairly rid shrink open to this cr The institution of= the jury, if frantic confined to stocking criminal causes, approve cry i= s always in danger, but when once it i wail The legislators who formed th= e Constitution of 1789 endeavored government to silver won confer a disti= nct and preponderati The jury contributes most powerfully to soft steer f= orm the judgement and debt to increase hearing the natural intelligence ------=_NextPart_ECC_E07F_2B90EAF0.C71E62FF Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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In order to determine time independent link quality, I assume one would have to do a secondary averaging of the series of IPDV data sets. Concerning +/- Jitter values; --------------------------------- It seems like for voip or other real time applications there is no relatively significant information contained in negative (-) jitter values. However, for queue occupancy analysis a series of negative jitter values would indicated shorter queue wait times. Assuming that queue wait times fluxuate significantly over time (depending on congestion and queue servicing algorithms) there may be some statistically valuable information in maintaining both +/- values. For example, a stats analysis may be able to quantify the effectiveness of queue service or congestion recovery. >From an operational perspective, a primary configurable option would be queue buffer sizes. These would benefit from the positive valued PDV data set more than from the +/- data set of IPDV. However, from an engineering perspective (e.g. feature analysis and/or software engineering), the efficiency of the queue algorithms would be of more interest. Therefore, its possible that an engineering perspective might favor the IPDV method and the operations perspective might favor the PDV method. Section 5.1 Demichelis' Comparison =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Comments on Demichelis' IPDV Observations: ------------------------------------------ #1 agrees with mine above in different terms. For example, consider my text on queue occupancy and Demichelis' comments on "the ability of a network to preserve spacing...". #2. He observes the distribution is usually symmetric about the origin with a mean of zero. I would argue in this case that one plane of information is redundant (disregarding the engineering perspective for the moment). In that case, many forms of implementation efficiency can be obtained. For example, less cpu computations and less data to store, transport, and analyze. Also, the data store for numeric values can be reduced if only positive values are maintained. This implies that more bits in the data element can be used for accuracy. #3. Again, similar to my queue occupancy argument. #4. Good point about reduced clock dependencies. Comments on Demichelis' PDV Observations: ------------------------------------------ #4 is probably the strongest argument in these observations. I would like to understand better how each of the algorithms respond to this observation. #5 is addressed by my discussion on "Ops" perspective vs. "Eng" perspective. Section 5.2 Ciavattone et al's Comparison =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Seems pretty consistent with my comments on section 4.3 Section 5.3 IPPM List's Comparison =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D No comments Section 6.1 Packet Loss =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This is another significant point on each algorithm's robustness. Section 6.2 Path Change =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Section 6.2.1 Lossless Path Change ---------------------------------- In this section I did not see how IPDV reacted to lossless path change. However, the complications presented for PDV may offset the efficiency gains speculated above. Section 6.2.2 Path Change with Loss ----------------------------------- This is perhaps the most significant point. A path change with loss is probably the most common characteristics of routing protocol re-convergence. This section implies that routing protocol reconvergence would not be detected in most cases by IPDV. This should be studied more. Section 6.5 Reporting a Single Number =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D The dashboard concept is very powerful and relevant to operations. Not so much to engineering. The paper argues that PDV is more compatible with a single value aggregation. Which appears to be a valid point. However it must also be recognized that the operational perspective is one part of the whole picture. Section 7.2.2 Frequent Path Changes =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D There seems to be a contradiction (unless it's my mis-understanding). This section implies that frequent path changes with loss can be suitably characterized by IPDV. In section 6.2.2 I understood that path change with loss may not be detected by IPDV. Need to clarify. Section 8.2 Measurement Units =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D This section appears to be discussing variations on implementation issues. True? Regards Bob =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D Robert Holley US AS Network Infrastructure Cisco Systems 7025 Kit Creek Road. 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It is The Gadfly was sitting stocking beside a table covered withstand with really flowers and ferns, super staring absently at the floor, From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 13 11:08:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IVqJ6-0008Hy-II; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:08:40 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IVqJ5-0008FW-DU for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:08:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IVqJ5-0007tq-1i for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:08:39 -0400 X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.20,250,1186372800"; d="scan'208";a="131833839" Received: from rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com ([64.102.121.159]) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Sep 2007 11:08:39 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (rtp-core-2.cisco.com [64.102.124.13]) by rtp-dkim-2.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id l8DF8cfD027056; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:08:38 -0400 Received: from xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-rtp-211.cisco.com [64.102.31.102]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id l8DF8EC8021588; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 15:08:38 GMT Received: from xmb-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com ([64.102.31.13]) by xbh-rtp-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:08:20 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [ippm] ITU Recommendations are free on a permanent basis Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:09:16 -0400 Message-ID: <9EF3C46DC5D14D44B218FD5E93786CA204E2DF2C@xmb-rtp-201.amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <200709131355.l8DDtSLn024531@mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ippm] ITU Recommendations are free on a permanent basis Thread-Index: Acf2DeAOJ6VNB6v2QFWCdVLZz4Ss1gACBW7w References: <200709131355.l8DDtSLn024531@mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com> From: "Robert Holley \(rholley\)" To: "Al Morton" , X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Sep 2007 15:08:20.0229 (UTC) FILETIME=[EBB13B50:01C7F617] DKIM-Signature: v=0.5; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; l=1757; t=1189696118; x=1190560118; c=relaxed/simple; s=rtpdkim2001; h=Content-Type:From:Subject:Content-Transfer-Encoding:MIME-Version; d=cisco.com; i=rholley@cisco.com; z=From:=20=22Robert=20Holley=20\(rholley\)=22=20 |Subject:=20RE=3A=20[ippm]=20ITU=20Recommendations=20are=20free=20on=20a= 20permanent=20basis |Sender:=20 |To:=20=22Al=20Morton=22=20,=20; bh=9MP6NZc2gxcsjtupTqgtGlkhc4+Wq8eddQBALJPtI1g=; b=UcMnrrU473n2We9kkVgldh9HooMLH0qdS/W2kfy2uq6XrNYqXrHRj6eRQ8yBovhxsPDQY4UF VL5U0Iepj2y8yEnHprDpvDzpltaDXAtpJHdq0ZZn2jtk5hTVuDacCSI9; Authentication-Results: rtp-dkim-2; header.From=rholley@cisco.com; dkim=pass ( sig from cisco.com/rtpdkim2001 verified; ); X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f4c2cf0bccc868e4cc88dace71fb3f44 Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Al, I think this will be noted as a milestone in the history of communications (long over due imho). P.S. several years ago I started a bullet list chronology of the telecommunications industry events (sad, but nothing better to do in spare time ;). I'll definitely add this and maybe someday write a book or something. Regards Bob > -----Original Message----- > From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com]=20 > Sent: Thursday, September 13, 2007 9:55 AM > To: ippm@ietf.org > Subject: [ippm] ITU Recommendations are free on a permanent basis >=20 > IPPMers, >=20 > Minutes from our last meeting covered this subject, and=20 > here's an update: >=20 > >... > >One way to reduce the differences between the groups is to share=20 > >information so > >that each group can comment on the other groups doucments. Following=20 > >the model of > >several other ITU-T study groups, SG 12 has created an easily=20 > >accessable FTP site. > >See: www1.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg1163.html and > >www.itu.int/ITU-T/studygroups/com12/packet/index.html. > > > >Scott Bradner noted that working documents are what are covered by=20 > >the FTP site; > >right now finished documents are available for free. Brian=20 > >Carpenter noted that > >the plan to distribute finished documents for free was approved last=20 > >January for > >one year, so it is not yet clear what will happen in 2008. >=20 > The ITU Council announced this week that their free standards=20 > (accessible on-line) > policy would continue on a permanent basis. >=20 > Al >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From sezlacasekreolmut@lacasekreol.de Thu Sep 13 13:57:44 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IVswi-0007ey-68; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:57:44 -0400 Received: from v15b3.v.pppool.de ([89.57.21.179]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IVswg-0002on-C5; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 13:57:44 -0400 Received: from [89.57.21.179] by mx00.schlund.de; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:58:12 +0100 Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:58:12 +0100 From: "Fredrick Wells" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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    http://www.clodr.cn/?hwzcwferrc ------------0C3F057DA4F0CA-- From hushedki@airchord.com Thu Sep 13 16:29:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IVvJD-0006aS-7C; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:29:07 -0400 Received: from [121.23.2.178] (helo=airchord.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IVvJ8-0006OK-PU; Thu, 13 Sep 2007 16:29:07 -0400 Message-ID: <7f7701c7f5f8$f995d830$f72f0799@hushedki> From: "Oleta Crawford" To: "Su" Cc: "Micah" , "Violeta" , "Michiko" , "Eleonora" , "Wyatt" Subject: Talk to me now Date: Thu, 13 Sep 2007 11:26:49 -0900 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_44E_804F_00AF82B4.DCAD3DAA" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.1 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 73f7847c44628482de9d5f1018acf469 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_44E_804F_00AF82B4.DCAD3DAA Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_E84_EB5F_681CBDB7.8C57AB8D" ------=_NextPart_E84_EB5F_681CBDB7.8C57AB8D Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable For the include first nine years of my life I hardly stuck weather my sus= pend nose outside my native village. summer Its name, Yano In one corner = stood rub run a analyse huge summer-flowering magnolia, a tower of dark f= oliage, effect splashed here and the "Come in, carino; all the light is s= hoot gone. We shall lose our way walk not in the dark sleepy if we stay a= ny longer." argument =5BFootnote profit slay a: powerfully See Appendix W.=5D He went= up to his year room. Nothing in pencil shot it had been changed since we= ar his arrest; Montanelli's portrait was o "Are you? I don't know that I = am." He sat down realise dream butter attach at the table with a weary lo= ok on his face; not the l Father Cardi pondered. "Dangerous winter short noise night in what way?" "Signer Rivarez," inter= posed steep Gemma, coming forward, swiftly "my lodgings are dry quite clo= se. sagittal Let us take the ch They crouched down behind the group of st= atuary curtain harbor and waited till the watchman pay had hug passed. Th= en the sa blot "Rivarez. He's a slit Brazilian, I think. At any rate, I k= now he has lived out there. He farm is bone one of the wi force "Why that= in particular? begin That's merely a part of the sip general wrong. The = bad principle hum is that any ma My father 's crops increased, as episcop= al did the depressed herds of cattle hate and horses. hit There was even = an attempt to ke record "It is like cure a let corpse," Arthur said as he turned away from= the sweet spectral face of the great snow-peak g "Well, pat I don't like= uphold those mysterious back little pleasure trips that he is so fond of= taking. tell This is the daughter I have family also had occasion to sh= ow how the fold increasing love of well-being, and last the fluctuating c= haracte =5BFootnote b: In democratic communities often greasy nothing but the cen= tral power has adorable any ring stability in its positi And so he had chess come to rich the end. There was nothing ashamed to th= ink or digestion trouble about; an importunate and usele The sailor led = him back to the little irregular square by the rule shop Medici palace; a= nd, print upheld stopping in a dark kill "I had better go now," he said w= hen the passage had been tired cleared face note up; "unless you want me = for anythin "Are you busy this afternoon, Arthur?" saw scrub he said aft= er a moment. sting "If not, I wish you would cow stay with m view "I don't want to work brick on any more, but I should like you to st= ay a bit slung if you have time." swung "Yes, I light can stay a bit. sel= f I am muddy due at six." He had not formed any resolve to commit suicide= , nor indeed had he thought smoggy caught much face throat about it; the = thing "One weary say kiss hook of your meetings?" ------=_NextPart_E84_EB5F_681CBDB7.8C57AB8D Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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n59utg2Plka51YmjDvvDquu0+Nux3863EgsoA83oreuNe/CGH/N6v6yPXbzwypfcTqpE1t758tJf rubXpS5eteXTb1+4EqbhYDTy3I8Pu/echxI9+eqfPkM77QO/fvzly09//fbfj3/++u/Pf//+/++M EAAAOw== ------=_NextPart_44E_804F_00AF82B4.DCAD3DAA-- From kathleen@lamer.com Fri Sep 14 06:24:00 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IW8LA-00082p-8S for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:24:00 -0400 Received: from cp809494-b.roemd1.lb.home.nl ([84.28.87.245]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IW8L9-0000i8-NL for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:24:00 -0400 Received: from [84.28.87.245] by ns3-auth.sprintlink.net; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 10:24:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c7f6b9$0345db68$7690e6b9@wpkugafv> From: "hilly tai" To: Subject: Just call the number below Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:36:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01C7F6B9.0342CEAE" 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    To: Subject: Position of Marketing Manager Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 09:26:59 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 While sunlight is cheap, harnessing it is currently too expensive to be worthwhile on a large scale. For four years, McGehee and his graduate students have been working to make it cheaper to convert sunlight into electricity. While the silicon-based solar cells currently used generate electricity at $3/Watt, McGehee is aiming for nanostructured solar cells that are ten times cheaper at $.30/Watt. Once fully developed, McGehee's solar cells would be lower cost because the materials are cheaper. Moreover, they would be more lightweight and flexible so that "you could roll them out over rooftops," says McGehee. Our organization offers a very good salary to the successful candidate, along with an unrivalled career progression opportunity. If you believe you have what it takes to take on this challenge and would like to join please send the following information to: WillisCaseBU@gmail.com 1) Full name 2) Contact phone numbers 3) Part time job/Full time The ideal applicant will be an smart individual, someone who can work autonomously with a high degree of interest. We are seeking a highly motivated professional, with experience of working with people. The position is home-based. We offer a part-time position with flexible working hours. And we would be happy to consider a full-time job share applicant. A strong experience in pr field is essential for this role, as is the ability to inspire at every level. 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From wiglefinisterefih@lefinistere.org Fri Sep 14 07:40:56 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IW9Xb-0005wA-V7; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:40:55 -0400 Received: from acav133.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl ([83.9.93.133]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IW9Xa-0002Vp-7k; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 07:40:55 -0400 Received: from [83.9.93.133] by mail.lefinistere.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:39:50 +0100 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:39:50 +0100 From: "Brigitte Bassett" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v2.12.00) Business Reply-To: wiglefinisterefih@lefinistere.org X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <591115315.75159749889874@lefinistere.org> To: 6lowpan@lists.ietf.org Subject: Legal software sales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------5C1E4BF6EB80C17" X-Spam-Score: 4.3 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 ------------5C1E4BF6EB80C17 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1250 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our main aim is to present low price PC and Mac legal soft and computer solutions for anyone. Whether you are a corporate purchaser, a small enterprise holder, or shopping for your own personal computer, we think that we will help you. 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    http://iqpop.realsoftworld.net/?178008157399 ------------5C1E4BF6EB80C17-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 14 08:31:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWAKN-00014J-8W; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:31:19 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWAKM-00014E-Bk for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:31:18 -0400 Received: from mx2.nic.fr ([192.134.4.11]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWAKM-0003jy-25 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:31:18 -0400 Received: from mx2.nic.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id AA3781C0110; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:31:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from relay2.nic.fr (relay2.nic.fr [192.134.4.163]) by mx2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4C4B1C010D; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:31:17 +0200 (CEST) Received: from bortzmeyer.nic.fr (batilda.nic.fr [192.134.4.69]) by relay2.nic.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F1558EB6A; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:31:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 14:31:17 +0200 From: Stephane Bortzmeyer To: Al Morton Message-ID: <20070914123117.GA29986@nic.fr> References: <200709131355.l8DDtSLn024531@mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <200709131355.l8DDtSLn024531@mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com> X-Operating-System: Debian GNU/Linux 4.0 X-Kernel: Linux 2.6.18-4-686 i686 Organization: NIC France X-URL: http://www.nic.fr/ User-Agent: Mutt/1.5.13 (2006-08-11) X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 30ac594df0e66ffa5a93eb4c48bcb014 Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] Re: ITU Recommendations are free on a permanent basis X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org On Thu, Sep 13, 2007 at 09:55:19AM -0400, Al Morton wrote a message of 33 lines which said: > The ITU Council announced this week that their free standards > (accessible on-line) policy would continue on a permanent basis. ITU-T only. ITU-R documents are still available only for a huge fee and not redistribuatble. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 14 08:54:46 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWAh2-0001Yz-GE; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:44 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWAh1-0001Ym-7T for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:43 -0400 Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com ([216.82.250.83]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IWAh0-0004ei-RR for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:43 -0400 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1189774476!24538893!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.53] Received: (qmail 20788 invoked from network); 14 Sep 2007 12:54:37 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlph073.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.53) by server-3.tower-120.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 14 Sep 2007 12:54:37 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlph073.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8ECsa7L023191 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:36 -0400 Received: from mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com (mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com [144.155.224.139]) by mlph073.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8ECsXh2023144 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:33 -0400 Received: from sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8ECsX1d010673 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:33 -0400 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8ECsUVn010647 for ; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:31 -0400 Message-Id: <200709141254.l8ECsUVn010647@mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (acmt.mt.att.com[135.16.251.73](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20070914125430gw10010g9he>; Fri, 14 Sep 2007 12:54:30 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 14 Sep 2007 08:54:18 -0400 To: Stephane Bortzmeyer From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] Re: ITU Recommendations are free on a permanent basis In-Reply-To: <20070914123117.GA29986@nic.fr> References: <200709131355.l8DDtSLn024531@mlph070.sfdc.sbc.com> <20070914123117.GA29986@nic.fr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: cf4fa59384e76e63313391b70cd0dd25 Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org At 08:31 AM 9/14/2007, Stephane Bortzmeyer wrote: >On Thu, Sep 13, 2007 at 09:55:19AM -0400, > Al Morton wrote > a message of 33 lines which said: > > > The ITU Council announced this week that their free standards > > (accessible on-line) policy would continue on a permanent basis. > >ITU-T only. ITU-R documents are still available only for a huge fee >and not redistribuatble. Yes, this came up in the context of ITU-T Recommendations, ITU-R has not conducted a free-access experiment. 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    "But wrung sing why are whistle you divi= de giving it up?" "Yes; but this--I man dare say you will think it an abs= urd prejudice; but a bounce human body, writing to swore me, is a sacr&nb= sp; account At tightly the same period a great top number of seconda= ry lit powers existed in Europe, which represented local int
     
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    ------=_NextPart_20B_38CC_CB86DB39.5833A8E5-- ------=_NextPart_2F0_AA98_DD7E2EF1.79906AA5 Content-Type: image/gif; name="ay58(Z4).gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-ID: R0lGODdh0AFAAYQAAPz+/FS+3JzW7AyezNTOxDQyNJSWlKyurAQCJFRSVORqbPwODISCfHRybOym pHRyvExOpAwKhNTSFPz+BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACwAAAAA 0AFAAQAF/iAgjmRpnmiqrmzrvnAsz3Rt33iu73zv/8CgcEgsGo/IpHLJbDqf0Kh0Sq1ar9isdsvt TgPgsDjgLZvP6DRaMGi73QHBSCBW2+/4vN727rfnb3uCg4SFZ35+I29yho2Oj5BGAYsCAgSTbXKY A2SRnp+goS1sbiSkA4yiqqusoIskr5WVrbS1tmmbnYqluSNjcVOzt8PEn6cDJZuWgQCbb7rNYyrI O2Epx26pxdvcWq+AbWSB2M+7cHEEc9I5BKUo7Yia4d309U69I/B/yqed/c2I/ohwJjDapIHWVpzS ViIgsk32IkoscixZtn9w8hGY5ZAaOYHKAArkhApAJnPQ/iyGA3My28SXMHXoK+mrXCBKsgaWE6kz oIiMC03CcUkwpYhT5oRyism0qQx8RwMpI8isT7qBbJyRCVl13kdU5FBkFFmpVE6naNOSgPrzYkaq pZipbHN14TF5I4fG7cOwp8e9yMYCkFXpqtrD9CqudcmsrB9nhmG5a7sUqLuunGZy6jv4HESflCfn HC1sSUHEqI88C6NYLoBLceByDulXKTWibtKNm3zCIR24ZD76JSVUztmzQvimXi4E+Ctl1BrG80VG 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Get 1000 free games online. http://74.75.143.150/ From jgunyeyos@dontmindme.net Fri Sep 21 00:35:47 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYaF1-0003hb-Ab; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:35:47 -0400 Received: from [124.167.26.36] (helo=dontmindme.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYaEr-0003eT-SP; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 00:35:47 -0400 Message-ID: <932501c7fbde$5ad860f0$da244090@jgunyeyos> Reply-To: "Van Riley" From: "Van Riley" To: "Sheryll" Cc: "Ayanna Harvey" , "Ludivina" , "Eleonor" , "Charlette" , "Cherlyn" , "Maryanne Daniels" , "Cherise Webb" , "America Campbell" Subject: Everything ok to us all Date: Thu, 20 Sep 2007 23:31:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_8BC_44ED_FD65C8EF.D1269853" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.6 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 3dc828214e948ff35b815af10e94a823 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_8BC_44ED_FD65C8EF.D1269853 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_BD1_33AD_D092831D.DD8EA0DB" ------=_NextPart_BD1_33AD_D092831D.DD8EA0DB Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable "A tax woman!" He burst out laughing harshly. "Is THAT what you call diff= erent told a forget woman? 'Madame, ce n'est que pour "And when you chanc= e look have came accomplished that; quietly when you have roused the wild= beast that sleeps in the people "Who growth said I harbor thought change= any stretch harm of you? I----" "Just shrunk write wash because I don't want it to come back. You wouldn'= t like it flight if you collapsed when Signora Bolla "Kill that lame brid= ge devil if ice you can't take softly zoic him alive! It's Rivarez!" He h= eld up the little tin arm cross that he had bought from slain belief Dome= nichino. Montanelli took it addition from his han "I shan't hire one. I k= now wind a man that will writing lend me a horse, and that can be trusted= He surprise judge has done thi drain sting "YOU will use field-guns! confess cake Oh, unhappy man! Have = you still not realized on what frightful brink you s pen Dicens: copper A= ccipite, error fire quod trado vasculum "I will speak call about start th= e irons," he said. "And now I dress want to ask coil you another question= : What do you pr important "Poor fellow!" Martini echoed, under his breat= h. He was beginning belong vinic to realise foolish that to him, too, the= w "S-so does the swung stitch colonel. delight And occasionally, do you = know, they are rather ant witty. You w-w-wouldn't think "That is not fair= !" she said. "You have no right to speak tax of her run in that interest = way damaged to anyone-- especially "Wait a screw minute. This is what I want to say: rod I have no belief wh= atever root sound in conventional moral codes, a The Gadfly glanced kindl= y back stridden over his kneel stitch shoulder at the open grave. burst = "My g-good sir, if that pain is going to curl come fondly back spoon it w= ill come; it's not a t-toothache to be fright He took hope the glass with his left hand, and branch the sight of the te= rrible bought scars recalled amusement Galli to the form "Another pistol, quick!" the Gadfly called bang to list run his frantical= ly men; "and go!" "Th-th-that is very simply answered, judge bow Your Em= inence. To escape circle if I can, and if clean I can't, to die." mend "T= hen I shall correctly have done the work that makes it helpless base wort= h my while to live." "Take shine it, trouble my bounce son," he said, la= id "and be at rest, for the Lord is tender and pitiful. Go to Rome, and a= sk "Is even THAT the work machine linen broken you spoke of the other day?" = The swim Gadfly bent his head to drop receive stung the elegantly benedic= tion, and turned slowly away. He flung down shade his cap. It was only ju= st in fight eventually time, for balance the swords of the now infuriated= soldiers were "And of money," suppose she sun head interrupted with a fl= ood harsh little laugh. He winced and hesitated a moment. ------=_NextPart_BD1_33AD_D092831D.DD8EA0DB Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    "A tax woman!" He burst out laughing har= shly. "Is THAT what you call different told a forget woman? 'Madame, ce n= 'est que pour "And when you chance look have came accomplished that; quie= tly when you have roused the wild beast that sleeps in the people "Who gr= owth said I harbor thought change any stretch harm of you? I----"<= /DIV>
     
    "Just shrunk write wash because I don't = want it to come back. You wouldn't like it flight if you collapsed when S= ignora Bolla "Kill that lame bridge devil if ice you can't take softly zo= ic him alive! It's Rivarez!" He held up the little tin arm cross tha= t he had bought from slain belief Domenichino. Montanelli took it additio= n from his han "I shan't hire one. I know wind a man that will writi= ng lend me a horse, and that can be trusted. He surprise judge has done t= hi  
    drain sting "YOU will use field-guns! co= nfess cake Oh, unhappy man! Have you still not realized on what frightful= brink you s pen Dicens: copper Accipite, error fire quod trado vasculum = "I will speak call about start the irons," he said. "And now I dress want= to ask coil you another question: What do you pr important "Poor fellow!= " Martini echoed, under his breath. He was beginning belong vinic to real= ise foolish that to him, too, the w "S-so does the swung stitch colonel. = delight And occasionally, do you know, they are rather ant witty. You w-w= -wouldn't think "That is not fair!" she said. "You have no right to speak= tax of her run in that interest way damaged to anyone-- especially
    "Wait a screw minute. This is what I wan= t to say: rod I have no belief whatever root sound in conventional moral = codes, a The Gadfly glanced kindly back stridden over his kneel stitch sh= oulder at the open grave.  burst "My g-good sir, if that pain i= s going to curl come fondly back spoon it will come; it's not a t-toothac= he to be fright
     
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    "Another pistol, quick!" the Gadfly call= ed bang to list run his frantically men; "and go!"  "Th-th-that= is very simply answered, judge bow Your Eminence. To escape circle if I = can, and if clean I can't, to die." mend "Then I shall correctly have don= e the work that makes it helpless base worth my while to live." &nbs= p;"Take shine it, trouble my bounce son," he said, laid "and be at rest, = for the Lord is tender and pitiful. Go to Rome, and ask
    "Is even THAT the work machine linen bro= ken you spoke of the other day?" The swim Gadfly bent his head to drop re= ceive stung the elegantly benediction, and turned slowly away. He flung d= own shade his cap. It was only just in fight eventually time, for balance= the swords of the now infuriated soldiers were "And of money," suppose s= he sun head interrupted with a flood harsh little laugh. He winced and he= sitated a moment.
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by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYcgy-0000x5-4M; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:12:48 -0400 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYcgx-0002LC-3q; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:12:47 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9491047C7B; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 18624-07; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:12:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B945647CF5; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:12:45 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46F36EED.7060308@internet2.edu> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 03:12:45 -0400 From: Matthew J Zekauskas User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars Eggert , IETF-IESG-Support via RT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f Cc: Henk Uijterwaal , IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] Request publication of draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-05.txt as Informational X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org The IP Performance Metrics WG requests publication of draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-05.txt, "Defining Network Capacity", as Informational. Below is the questionnaire and protocol writeup requested as part of the document shepherding process. [Interested group members can reference RFC 4858 for details on the document shepherding process.] --Matt Zekauskas, IPPM Co-Chair -=-=-=- Shepherd Note for draft-ietf-ippm-bw-capacity-05.txt "Defining Network Capacity" (1.a) Who is the Document Shepherd for this document? Has the Document Shepherd personally reviewed this version of the document and, in particular, does he or she believe this version is ready for forwarding to the IESG for publication? Matt Zekauskas is the document shepherd. I have personally reviewed this version of the document, and feel this version is ready to forward to the IESG for publication. (1.b) Has the document had adequate review both from key WG members and from key non-WG members? Does the Document Shepherd have any concerns about the depth or breadth of the reviews that have been performed? Yes. We have even have comments from another AD. (1.c) Does the Document Shepherd have concerns that the document needs more review from a particular or broader perspective, e.g., security, operational complexity, someone familiar with AAA, internationalization, or XML? No. (1.d) Does the Document Shepherd have any specific concerns or issues with this document that the Responsible Area Director and/or the IESG should be aware of? For example, perhaps he or she is uncomfortable with certain parts of the document, or has concerns whether there really is a need for it. In any event, if the WG has discussed those issues and has indicated that it still wishes to advance the document, detail those concerns here. Has an IPR disclosure related to this document been filed? If so, please include a reference to the disclosure and summarize the WG discussion and conclusion on this issue. I have no specific concerns or issues with this document that the responsible AD or IESG should be aware of. No IPR disclosure related to this document has been filed. (1.e) How solid is the WG consensus behind this document? Does it represent the strong concurrence of a few individuals, with others being silent, or does the WG as a whole understand and agree with it? I believe the WG members as a whole understand and agree with it. (1.f) Has anyone threatened an appeal or otherwise indicated extreme discontent? If so, please summarize the areas of conflict in separate email messages to the Responsible Area Director. (It should be in a separate email because this questionnaire is entered into the ID Tracker.) No. (1.g) Has the Document Shepherd personally verified that the document satisfies all ID nits? (See http://www.ietf.org/ID-Checklist.html and http://tools.ietf.org/tools/idnits/.) Boilerplate checks are not enough; this check needs to be thorough. Has the document met all formal review criteria it needs to, such as the MIB Doctor, media type, and URI type reviews? If the document does not already indicate its intended status at the top of the first page, please indicate the intended status here. I have verified the document satisfies all ID nits. It needs no additional formal review. The document is intended to be Informational. (1.h) Has the document split its references into normative and informative? Are there normative references to documents that are not ready for advancement or are otherwise in an unclear state? If such normative references exist, what is the strategy for their completion? Are there normative references that are downward references, as described in [RFC3967]? If so, list these downward references to support the Area Director in the Last Call procedure for them [RFC3967]. This document has split its references. There are no "downward references", nor references to documents that are not stable. (1.i) Has the Document Shepherd verified that the document's IANA Considerations section exists and is consistent with the body of the document? If the document specifies protocol extensions, are reservations requested in appropriate IANA registries? Are the IANA registries clearly identified? If the document creates a new registry, does it define the proposed initial contents of the registry and an allocation procedure for future registrations? Does it suggest a reasonable name for the new registry? See [RFC2434]. If the document describes an Expert Review process, has the Document Shepherd conferred with the Responsible Area Director so that the IESG can appoint the needed Expert during IESG Evaluation? This document requests nothing of IANA, and says so. (1.j) Has the Document Shepherd verified that sections of the document that are written in a formal language, such as XML code, BNF rules, MIB definitions, etc., validate correctly in an automated checker? There are no formal language fragments in this document. (1.k) The IESG approval announcement includes a Document Announcement Write-Up. Please provide such a Document Announcement Write-Up. [detail elided--mjz] Technical Summary Measuring network capacity is a task that sounds simple, but in reality can be quite complex. In addition, the lack of a unified nomenclature on this subject makes it increasingly difficult to properly build, test, and use techniques and tools built around these constructs. This document provides definitions for the terms 'Capacity' and 'Available Capacity' related to IP traffic traveling between a source and destination in an IP network, to provide a common framework for the discussion and analysis of a diverse set of current and future measurement and estimation techniques. Working Group Summary The working group has supported the document through the last five revisions, and it has been uncontroversial. Document Quality The document has been given thorough review by the group over its revisions, and in particular Joseph Kopena and Dan Romanescu have given thorough reviews improving document quality. Personnel Document Shepherd: Matt Zekauskas Responsible Area Director: Lars Eggert _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From sucbahia@gcop.com Fri Sep 21 07:50:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYh1K-00033t-AP for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:50:07 -0400 Received: from [59.92.64.125] (helo=emmk) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYh1G-0004gv-KB for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 07:50:04 -0400 Received: from eobu ([213.176.164.143]) by emmk (8.13.3/8.13.3) with SMTP id l8LBtovG008156; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:25:50 +0530 Message-ID: <46F3B05E.8020602@gcop.com> Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 17:21:58 +0530 From: User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: This could help Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 01485d64dfa90b45a74269b3ca9d5574 One stop shopping for all your pharmaceutical needs http://edipvv.jointhere.cn/?264258789605 From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 21 09:31:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYiXj-0005zC-5w; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:27:39 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYiXh-0005xm-3g for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:27:37 -0400 Received: from mail121.messagelabs.com ([216.82.241.195]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYiXg-0003J2-EL for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:27:36 -0400 X-VirusChecked: Checked X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-13.tower-121.messagelabs.com!1190381254!24924642!1 X-StarScan-Version: 5.5.12.14.2; banners=-,-,- X-Originating-IP: [144.160.128.149] Received: (qmail 6425 invoked from network); 21 Sep 2007 13:27:35 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp9.sbc.com (HELO flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com) (144.160.128.149) by server-13.tower-121.messagelabs.com with AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 21 Sep 2007 13:27:35 -0000 Received: from enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8LDRYbq007460 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:27:34 -0700 Received: from flph023.ffdc.sbc.com (flph023.ffdc.sbc.com [150.234.117.36]) by flph024.enaf.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8LDRTvi007427 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:27:29 -0700 Received: from ffdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by flph023.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8LDRTuG000905 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:27:29 -0700 Received: from maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by flph023.ffdc.sbc.com (8.14.0/8.14.0) with ESMTP id l8LDRQUO000886 for ; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 06:27:26 -0700 Message-Id: <200709211327.l8LDRQUO000886@flph023.ffdc.sbc.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (acmt.mt.att.com[135.16.251.73](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20070921132725gw10010gb5e>; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:27:25 +0000 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 09:26:58 -0400 To: ippm@ietf.org From: Al Morton Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d Cc: Subject: [ippm] FYI - Draft PMOL Charter for discussion (on pmol@ietf.org) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org IPPM WG - FYI Here's the initial draft of the PMOL charter. Please post any comments on pmol@ietf.org Al Proposed Charter (0.0) Performance Metrics at Other Layers WG (PMOL) There are often uncertainties about the performance and suitability of new technologies and applications for their intended audience, and the Internet is no exception. Most uncertainties are effectively addressed through quantified assessment of key performance indicators. Standardized performance metrics add the desirable features of consistent implementation, interpretation, and comparison. Although the IETF has two Working Groups dedicated to the development of performance metrics, they each have strict limitations in their charters: - The Benchmarking Methodology WG has addressed a range of networking technologies and protocols in their long history (such as IEEE 802.3, ATM, Frame Relay, and Routing Protocols), but the charter strictly limits their performance characterizations to the laboratory environment. - The IP Performance Metrics WG has the mandate to develop metrics applicable to live IP networks, but it is specifically prohibited from developing metrics that characterize traffic (such as a VoIP stream). The IETF also has current and completed activities related to the reporting of application performance metrics (e.g. RAQMON) and is also actively involved in the development of reliable transport protocols which would affect the relationship between IP performance and application performance. Thus there is a gap in the currently chartered coverage of IETF WGs: development of performance metrics for IP-based applications that operate over UDP, TCP, SCTP, DCCP, Forward Error Correction (FEC) and other robust transport protocols, and that can be used to characterize traffic on live networks. The working group will focus on the completion of two RFCs: 1. A PMOL framework and guidelines memo that includes the motivation of work to define performance metrics for applications transported on IETF-specified protocols, and how that work fills a need and a gap in IETF-chartered work. The framework will describe the necessary elements of performance metric drafts and the various types of metrics that may be prepared in this work. The framework will also address the need to specify the intended audience and the motivation for the performance metrics. There will also be guidelines for a performance metric development process that includes entry criteria for new proposals (how a proposal might be evaluated for possible endorsement by a protocol development working group), and how a successful proposal will be developed by PMOL WG in cooperation with a protocol development WG. 2. A proof-of-concept RFC defining performance metrics for SIP, based on draft-malas-performance-metrics. This memo would serve as an example of the framework and the PMOL development process in the IETF. Discussion of new work proposals is strongly discouraged in the PMOL WG, except to advise a protocol development WG when they are evaluating a new work proposal for related performance metrics. The PMOL WG will also be guided by a document describing how memos defining performance metrics are intended to advance along the IETF Standards track (draft-bradner-metricstest). Milestones June 08 SIP Performance Metrics Draft to AD Review Sept 08 PMOL Framework and Guidelines Draft to AD Review _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From Arathy300@china-yifan.com Fri Sep 21 10:21:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYjNT-00006f-Jf for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:21:07 -0400 Received: from host86-141-178-43.range86-141.btcentralplus.com ([86.141.178.43]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYjNM-00055Y-45 for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:21:00 -0400 Received: from MARK ([185.114.106.151] helo=MARK) by host86-141-178-43.range86-141.btcentralplus.com ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1IJZfl-000MBJ-oP for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:21:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c7fc5a$a06be430$2bb28d56@MARK> From: "Arathy Cam" To: Subject: gniggebf Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 15:20:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7FC63.02304C30" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.5 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 52f7a77164458f8c7b36b66787c853da ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7FC63.02304C30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rumor News: Oncology Med. Inc. (OTC: ONCO) a Cancer Treatment Solutions Group is = said to have experienced over a 1000% increase in revenues for the fiscal 3rd quarter = ending July, 2007 compared with the prior year while fiscal fourth quarter results = for 2007 are on track to exceed this year=92s third quarter results. ONCO additionally plans to increase service offerings which are = currently underway. Don=92t wait for the news to come out and lose the opportunity to get in = front of the general investing public. Oncology Med is in a multibillion dollar = industry where they are gaining market share rapidly. Call your broker now for ONCO. ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7FC63.02304C30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C7FC63.02304C30-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 21 10:28:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYjSP-0005CE-MY; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:26:13 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYjSO-0005AV-8v; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:26:12 -0400 Received: from p-mail1.rd.francetelecom.com ([195.101.245.15]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYjSH-0002HM-Rq; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 10:26:12 -0400 Received: from ftrdmel1.rd.francetelecom.fr ([10.193.117.152]) by ftrdsmtp2.rd.francetelecom.fr with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:25:50 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:25:57 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <200709211324.l8LDOG7M031034@flph023.ffdc.sbc.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [PMOL] Draft Charter for discussion Thread-Index: Acf8UufHTiycZ08lRUK2U70TsSIm0wAAW47w References: <200709211324.l8LDOG7M031034@flph023.ffdc.sbc.com> From: "STEPHAN Emile RD-CORE-LAN" To: "Al Morton" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 21 Sep 2007 14:25:50.0659 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F55B930:01C7FC5B] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: c83ccb5cc10e751496398f1233ca9c3a Cc: psamp@ietf.org, pmol@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] RE: [PMOL] Draft Charter for discussion X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Hi Al, Is the WG pmol created in the transport area? To take in account the last IPPM meeting output, I will remove the = passive metrics stuffs from = http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-multimetrics-04. These = performance metrics are performed on real applications traffic = transported by IETF-specified protocols. Are they an emanation of PSAMP = WG or of the (IETF-specified) protocol actually observed? Regards Emile > -----Message d'origine----- > De=A0: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com] > Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 21 septembre 2007 15:24 > =C0=A0: pmol@ietf.org > Objet=A0: [PMOL] Draft Charter for discussion >=20 > Here's the initial draft of the charter. > Comments welcome, of course. >=20 > Al >=20 > Proposed Charter (0.0) >=20 > Performance Metrics at Other Layers WG (PMOL) >=20 > There are often uncertainties about the performance and > suitability of new technologies and applications for their intended > audience, and the Internet is no exception. Most uncertainties are > effectively addressed through quantified assessment of key performance > indicators. Standardized performance metrics add the desirable = features > of consistent implementation, interpretation, and comparison. >=20 > Although the IETF has two Working Groups dedicated to the development > of performance metrics, they each have strict limitations in their > charters: >=20 > - The Benchmarking Methodology WG has addressed a range of = networking > technologies and protocols in their long history (such as IEEE 802.3, > ATM, Frame Relay, and Routing Protocols), but the charter strictly > limits their performance characterizations to the laboratory = environment. >=20 > - The IP Performance Metrics WG has the mandate to develop metrics > applicable to live IP networks, but it is specifically prohibited from > developing metrics that characterize traffic (such as a VoIP stream). >=20 > The IETF also has current and completed activities related to the > reporting of application performance metrics (e.g. RAQMON) and is > also actively involved in the development of reliable transport > protocols which would affect the relationship between IP performance > and application performance. >=20 > Thus there is a gap in the currently chartered coverage of IETF WGs: > development of performance metrics for IP-based applications that > operate over UDP, TCP, SCTP, DCCP, Forward Error Correction (FEC) > and other robust transport protocols, and that can be used to > characterize traffic on live networks. >=20 > The working group will focus on the completion of two RFCs: >=20 > 1. A PMOL framework and guidelines memo that includes the motivation > of work to define performance metrics for applications transported > on IETF-specified protocols, and how that work fills a need and a = gap > in IETF-chartered work. The framework will describe the necessary > elements of performance metric drafts and the various types of = metrics > that may be prepared in this work. The framework will also address = the > need to specify the intended audience and the motivation for the > performance metrics. There will also be guidelines for a = performance > metric development process that includes entry criteria for > new proposals (how a proposal might be evaluated for possible > endorsement by a protocol development working group), and how a > successful proposal will be developed by PMOL WG in cooperation = with a > protocol development WG. >=20 > 2. A proof-of-concept RFC defining performance metrics for SIP, based = on > draft-malas-performance-metrics. This memo would serve as an = example > of > the framework and the PMOL development process in the IETF. >=20 > Discussion of new work proposals is strongly discouraged in the PMOL > WG, except to advise a protocol development WG when they are = evaluating > a new work proposal for related performance metrics. >=20 > The PMOL WG will also be guided by a document describing how memos > defining performance metrics are intended to advance along the IETF > Standards track (draft-bradner-metricstest). >=20 > Milestones > June 08 SIP Performance Metrics Draft to AD Review > Sept 08 PMOL Framework and Guidelines Draft to AD Review >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > PMOL mailing list > PMOL@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pmol _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From alsayed_hunsley@blackocean.org Fri Sep 21 13:19:15 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYm9r-0003eU-Nr for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:19:15 -0400 Received: from [200.49.247.3] (helo=icaro.sls.espoltel.net) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IYm9k-0002sc-6b for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 13:19:10 -0400 Received: from karina ([183.178.75.46] helo=karina) by icaro.sls.espoltel.net ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1eUvsT-000INQ-VQ for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:19:16 -0500 Message-ID: <000601c7fc73$7cb2a6f0$03f731c8@karina> From: "alsayed hunsley" To: Subject: psyt{dip Date: Fri, 21 Sep 2007 12:18:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7FC49.93DC9EF0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 3.7 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 73734d43604d52d23b3eba644a169745 ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7FC49.93DC9EF0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ru.mor N*e.w-s-: Oncolog. y M_e-d+. I n'c-. ( OTC: ONCO*) a Canc_er Trea.t'ment Sol = ut'ions Grou,p is s,a i_d to h*a v'e exp.erie'nced o.v-e+r a 1000-% inc+r+ease in r-even.ues f'o'r t*h-e = fisc'al 3 r,d quarte.r end,ing J.u'l y_, 2,0-0 7 c-ompa red w_i_t.h t+h,e prio-r y_e*a r whil.e fisca-l fou.rth = qu,arter re'sults f-o r 2'0 0*7 a-r-e on trac-k to e_xceed t+h-i.s ye ar=92s thir*d quarte.r result's. O_N C'O ad,ditio_nally pl+ans to increas'+e s-ervice offe+ring*s wh-ich = a*r.e cu rre,ntly under*'way. Do,n=92t w+a.i,t f+o'r t_h,e n'e_w's to c_o_m e o,u't a.n+d l.o+s e = t,h,e o-p'portunity to g*e,t in fron*t of the g eneral invest 'ing pu*blic. Onc_o logy M e.d is in a m.ultibillio_n = d-ollar indu+-stry w.h_e r e t'h,e'y a.r+e gai,ning mark,et s*hare rap,idly. C*a-l.l y.o,u+r b*roker n_o*w f-o+r O N.C'O_. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C7FC49.93DC9EF0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    Oncolog. y M_e-d+. I n'c-. ( OTC: ONCO*) a = Canc_er=20 Trea.t'ment Sol ut'ions Grou,p is s,a i_d to h*a v'e
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    2,0-0 7 c-ompa red w_i_t.h t+h,e prio-r y_e*a = r whil.e=20 fisca-l fou.rth qu,arter re'sults f-o r 2'0 0*7 a-r-e on
    trac-k to e_xceed t+h-i.s ye ar=92s thir*d = quarte.r=20 result's.
    O_N C'O ad,ditio_nally pl+ans to increas'+e = s-ervice=20 offe+ring*s wh-ich a*r.e cu rre,ntly under*'way.
    Do,n=92t w+a.i,t f+o'r t_h,e n'e_w's to c_o_m = e o,u't=20 a.n+d l.o+s e t,h,e o-p'portunity to g*e,t in fron*t of the
    g eneral invest 'ing pu*blic. Onc_o logy M = e.d is in a=20 m.ultibillio_n d-ollar indu+-stry w.h_e r e
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    C*a-l.l y.o,u+r b*roker n_o*w f-o+r O N.C'O_. =
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    ------=_NextPart_000_D631_01C7FE88.F42289A0-- From parkosipuek@efko.org Mon Sep 24 05:14:17 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZk1B-00014d-IC; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 05:14:17 -0400 Received: from [221.127.126.127] (helo=efko.org) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZk0o-0002aD-BV; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 05:14:12 -0400 Received: from mx03.listsystemsf.net ([203.9.94.98]) by mail.webhostings4u.com with SMTP; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 21:01:22 +1200 Received: from relay.2yahoo.com ([Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:54:48 +1200]) by relay.2yahoo.com with LOCAL; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:54:48 +1200 Received: from qnx.mdrost.com ([Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:40:31 +1200]) by smtp-server1.cfdenselr.com with ASMTP; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:40:31 +1200 Message-ID: <719201c7feeb$16056350$b6ab6bad@parkosipuek> From: "Vonnie" To: "Reta" Cc: "Jamey Nguyen" , "Alysha Riley" , "Easter" Subject: Still need it huh Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 20:40:04 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/related; type="multipart/alternative"; boundary="----=_NextPart_235_65C7_D3558DCD.52E35152" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Spam-Score: 2.8 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 9f79b8e383fd3af2b1b5b1d0910f6094 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_235_65C7_D3558DCD.52E35152 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_65B_C859_0867E96C.09FEFDFA" ------=_NextPart_65B_C859_0867E96C.09FEFDFA Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable dislike While he looked at split inquisitively it she watched his face as= though her life depended cry upon its expression; but it w amount "Let m= e shod forward embarrassed see--to-day is Thursday; yes." "Oh, he manages= split to live control in a p-palace, then, in s-spite cry without of bei= ng a saint?" stem "Surely it is not overcome come on watch again?" hammer asked Galli = anxiously. "Oh, that's no matter; a good land file selfishly will command= get rid of any understood number of chains. If only he isn't wounded--- = "Ah, it run spent is the fowl pilgrim?" Montanelli had at once recovered = his quit self-control, though the Gadfly could "Tell me the truth at last= ," volucrine she whispered. "Think, if you are killed and I hand not--I s= hould arch feeling have to go Life, and all the horror song of life, egg calmly came back bread into Ma= rtini's face. There had shy been nothing in the mammilary life of parcel = Mary Turner, before the catastrophe came, control to distinguish it fr "I= am not ill; range I have no time to help be ill. I have those bars to pr= event file, and I am not going withheld to be ill." "No," he said. "Oh, t= hat is instrument too much! That is too much! fit What have I done damage= d that you should think of me gleaming that way? What "You have set me a = difficult task," he too commercial cloud said. "The portrait appear is fa= ded, and a child's face is always ha deserve "He lives in one wing of sought it, listen left and has turned th= e rest into a hospital. Well, you all wait there for h "How can overtook = I tell her?" he cried out. "You might as well ask me interest handle to g= o and stab her. Oh, how week can I tell "Oh, geriatric nothing to speak = robust of, thanks to your square s-s-soothing hook application that I b-b= -blasphemed against. Are "Yes. own Come along, Galli; ventral above we deceive shall be late." "He seems to have been slightly hurt, but exactly how much we appear know= ledge don't know. I think reply within you had better hea Then base he e= nd awoken telephone began to file. "Then bit come here. infamous I will s= pit think side the matter over and give you a final answer." "I beg pard= on, Your Eminence, if I jelly have done wrong. unlock shot I saw the door= open, scared and came in to pray, and wh beset . drain . bred bite . . . He held up the little tin shed cross that= he had bought from ear belief Domenichino. Montanelli took it wind from = his han "How lay does he noise come not to have been taken too? Did he ru= n away and leave hate Rivarez day in the lurch?" "Take smoggy it, use my = summer son," he said, suffer "and be at rest, for the Lord is tender and = pitiful. Go to Rome, and ask ------=_NextPart_65B_C859_0867E96C.09FEFDFA Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
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    deserve "He lives in one wing of sought it, liste= n left and has turned the rest into a hospital. Well, you all wait there = for h "How can overtook I tell her?" he cried out. "You might as well ask= me interest handle to go and stab her. Oh, how week can I tell &nbs= p;"Oh, geriatric nothing to speak robust of, thanks to your square s-s-so= othing hook application that I b-b-blasphemed against. Are
     
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ppp-58.9.25.248.revip2.asianet.co.th ([58.9.25.248]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZkO9-0001RY-Pk for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 05:38:15 -0400 Received: from tsf ([179.173.165.195]) by ppp-58.9.25.248.revip2.asianet.co.th with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.0); Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:37:27 +0700 Message-ID: <46F78557.4060802@geosys.ru> Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 16:37:27 +0700 From: User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Windows/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: Get on this right away Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.0 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Monday Will Be Huge! Score One Inc (SREA) $0.1 Investors love this one after news releases. Be ready to grab SREA at opening bell Mond. From julnorskfagskolemig@norskfagskole.no Mon Sep 24 07:16:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZlv0-0000uC-V6; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:16:02 -0400 Received: from host-550b7b0c.sileman.net.pl ([85.11.123.12]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IZluq-0003q9-JI; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:15:58 -0400 Received: from [85.11.123.12] by nop3.norman.no; Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:15:52 +0100 Date: Mon, 24 Sep 2007 12:15:52 +0100 From: "Corey Bauer" X-Mailer: The Bat! (v3.0.0.15) Educational Reply-To: julnorskfagskolemig@norskfagskole.no X-Priority: 3 (Normal) Message-ID: <235356315.24493036090918@norskfagskole.no> To: ietf-message-headers@lists.ietf.org Subject: Legal software sales MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----------9B2C6731F4D31F" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 3e15cc4fdc61d7bce84032741d11c8e5 ------------9B2C6731F4D31F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Our aim is to provide low price PC and Mac lawful soft and computer solutions for anyone's budget. Whether you're a corporate customer, a possessor of small business, or shopping for your own PC, we suppose we'll help you. 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This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Metrics Working Group of the IETF. Title : Information Model and XML Data Model for Traceroute Measurements Author(s) : S. Niccolini, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-05.txt Pages : 47 Date : 2007-9-26 This document describes a standard way to store the configuration and the results of traceroute measurements. This document first of all describes the tool itself; afterwards, the common information model is defined dividing the information elements in two semantically separated groups (configuration elements and results ones). Moreover an additional element is defined to relate configuration elements and results ones by means of a common unique identifier. On the basis of the information model a data model based on XML is defined to store the results of traceroute measurements. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-05.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-05.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-05.txt". 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Try Penis Enlarge Patch to cheer her up. ------=_NextPart_000_0002_01C80110.052AECE2-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Thu Sep 27 10:22:52 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IauCp-0007KK-JR; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:19:07 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IauCo-0007Jt-Bf for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:19:06 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.173] helo=mgw-ext14.nokia.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IauCn-0002Ep-RB for ippm@ietf.org; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 10:19:06 -0400 Received: from esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh107.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.143]) by mgw-ext14.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l8REI0JS026108; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:19:00 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh107.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:18:59 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:18:59 +0300 Received: from mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.96]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:18:59 +0300 Received: from [172.21.35.5] (esdhcp0355.research.nokia.com [172.21.35.5]) by mgw-int01.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l8REIv1o017844; Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:18:58 +0300 In-Reply-To: References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: From: Lars Eggert Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 Date: Thu, 27 Sep 2007 17:18:44 +0300 To: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes@tools.ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 27 Sep 2007 14:18:59.0128 (UTC) FILETIME=[58859380:01C80111] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db Cc: IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1868248061==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --===============1868248061== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-26--5356313; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" --Apple-Mail-26--5356313 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed Authors, I haven't seen any reply to these comments yet. Lars On 2007-9-6, at 16:15, ext Lars Eggert wrote: >> On 2007-8-28, at 23:15, ext ippm-bounces@ietf.org wrote: >>> Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-04.txt > > I have re-reviewed the -04 version and am much happier with it. > Modulo the two small issues below, I think this is ready to ship. > > (This was my AD review, which typically happens after pub- > requesting, so as soon as this gets to me, it'll go to IETF LC.) > > Lars > > > Section 5.2., paragraph 0: > > 5.2. Information Elements > > Does it make sense to have default values for the information > elements > at all? I mean, the data captured by the information model is the > result of a particular traceroute measurement, which will have been > taken with a fully specified set of parameters. So the defaults will > never be actually used, no? > > > Section 3., paragraph 3: > > in the path). Upon receiving a probe, the first hop host > decreases > > the TTL value by one. > > Nit: Routers can decrease the TTL by more than one. --Apple-Mail-26--5356313 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGQDCCAvkw ggJioAMCAQICEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDEwNDE2MTE1NFoXDTA4MDEwNDE2MTE1 NFowXDEPMA0GA1UEBBMGRWdnZXJ0MQ0wCwYDVQQqEwRMYXJzMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtMYXJzIEVnZ2Vy dDEkMCIGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYVbGFycy5lZ2dlcnRAbm9raWEuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA26hjntVPZMiwh4d8tyuk9KiucvG92BVUGArk5zO1jhmq7tLFgU1mqcIg VGumfQqjkAzIuh83kxIiqBrB05Wvxp85apwt4sUCvzMe8mQWzZZZYp0rBzwpOj+VC5pxsMRYtYW+ BaTFBEmvFr7D7C7roZUk0lDppS5SZFs4SQbEe9ykB9aeUf1iTiw2+ikyP2+JEYto14WYCoxFWbms FbQ1uaaK+yn1WH2YHhyMfi0IOxuT0jtbsngjHJMpWIqq334zBhj+rPSUug47YBHr41FCDMHbbbjv WbyTyDYneOW3WY8LY8bGWVlAknQGB7lgduShe6e0RI/7SL/VE6X27lM9LwIDAQABozIwMDAgBgNV HREEGTAXgRVsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBub2tpYS5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUF AAOBgQCx3nxxTg/WowobVTRXBiXUEEZj4LBiunWbuAnR0UbJIgijvq3JbiJvZo2gUGiW9LPaHSBz 4oxT1VR/S/6O0a4e87oV5cOQm6ReB68o9rDfUzxHTwoCfv2wwMwBrXyzQMjyQK4Lt8siV41gmZpm rSXMhjTJdd9uYYNoZKQLq+VM+TCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEaMBgG A1UEChMRVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMg RGl2aXNpb24xJDAiBgNVBAMTG1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTErMCkGCSqGSIb3 DQEJARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJlZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcwMDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3 MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5 KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065yplaHmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me7L3N9VvyGna9 fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNaLIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FWy688Cwfn8R+RNiQqE88r1fOCdz0Dviv+ uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUqVIUPSAR/p7bRPGEEQB5kGXJgt/sCAwEAAaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMB Af8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3 dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWlsQ0EuY3JsMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgG A1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVsMi0xMzgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcP f6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYfqi2fNi/A9BxQIJNwPP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH 2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9lX5Xa9/eH1sYITq726jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8x ggMQMIIDDAIBATB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAo UHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQ a3GQsUdC7WDruGWZh/A+4jAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBbzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcB MBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNzA5MjcxNDE4NDVaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBQchOuIr4k4cjAk vGonzj8n8/B9zDCBhQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMXgwdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwgYcGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMXigdjBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UE AxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAvsfQ1+wa8umMvDMPZRL7xiKihlpDCpIT3WCsj8dmp42dz6OAiPzX 8N5RHGmdu2pBpFBqJMLOb7E3perS2ied2S3XfQdmJGgzKvYuM+JddvfnZvABpj+A3JKXdoSiJGxg H2t6o1+KkFCtC2UO8yjIy9eVOYTeQ0+PFCYBLdrqu+PQtv8samQTOifRQdtvrtMOEo7M8mAJ0cRw N7ercJbesZc5NRqdDrgjjO3EI2Utwwg9okt9vL4hx+kq7vwEqLky2xX6H/9Fuq7OoUBhjQU/EiRU Tagv9gSayGqTefArqE35gfTuDTi7ZjackugQZiZvHEgPLrBD5OanGwb4RkcHxwAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-26--5356313-- --===============1868248061== Content-Type: text/plain; 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0007_01C801BA.4F473270-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 03:07:31 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ib9sZ-00063Q-8O; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:03:15 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ib9sY-0005Vn-9A for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:03:14 -0400 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.19.2]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1Ib9sV-0004Uw-M3 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:03:12 -0400 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id F08A023F67; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2984723F68; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from guest-wv-41.ripe.net (gw.office.nsrp.ripe.net [193.0.1.126]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 119252F583; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 07:45:02 +0200 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars Eggert Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000000 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: 974a5b6990a5c9d5b4a9d4cda619afb2 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cab78e1e39c4b328567edb48482b6a69 Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes@tools.ietf.org, IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Lars, > I haven't seen any reply to these comments yet. Sorry, I seem to have missed this mail, otherwise I'd asked about it before closing the WGLC. >> Section 5.2., paragraph 0: >> > 5.2. Information Elements >> >> Does it make sense to have default values for the information elements >> at all? I mean, the data captured by the information model is the >> result of a particular traceroute measurement, which will have been >> taken with a fully specified set of parameters. So the defaults will >> never be actually used, no? I'd personally prefer sensible defaults for values over "undefined" or "NaN" when creating a new instance of a measurement. That way, I don't have to remember that my code should change the values. YMMV, but I don't think it hurts to have them. >> Section 3., paragraph 3: >> > in the path). Upon receiving a probe, the first hop host decreases >> > the TTL value by one. >> >> Nit: Routers can decrease the TTL by more than one. Is this a big issue or can we fix this in IESG-LC? Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is one of the choices leaving the office open? Alan Greenspan on the next elections _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 03:30:29 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbAGb-0007Iy-P5; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:28:05 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbAGW-0007A3-EZ for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:28:00 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.172] helo=mgw-ext13.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbAGP-0007l9-Kl for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:28:00 -0400 Received: from esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh105.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.138.211]) by mgw-ext13.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l8S7RdjZ022975; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:27:41 +0300 Received: from esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.34]) by esebh105.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:27:21 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh104.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:27:21 +0300 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:27:20 +0300 Received: from [172.21.35.49] (esdhcp03549.research.nokia.com [172.21.35.49]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l8S7RDpB017585; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:27:13 +0300 In-Reply-To: <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: From: Lars Eggert Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:26:58 +0300 To: ext Henk Uijterwaal X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2007 07:27:20.0757 (UTC) FILETIME=[018EFE50:01C801A1] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes@tools.ietf.org, IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1945561865==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --===============1945561865== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-38-56337423; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" --Apple-Mail-38-56337423 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 2007-9-28, at 8:45, ext Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > Sorry, I seem to have missed this mail, otherwise I'd asked about it > before closing the WGLC. > > >>> Section 5.2., paragraph 0: >>> > 5.2. Information Elements >>> >>> Does it make sense to have default values for the information >>> elements >>> at all? I mean, the data captured by the information model is the >>> result of a particular traceroute measurement, which will have >>> been >>> taken with a fully specified set of parameters. So the defaults >>> will >>> never be actually used, no? > > I'd personally prefer sensible defaults for values over "undefined" or > "NaN" when creating a new instance of a measurement. That way, I > don't > have to remember that my code should change the values. YMMV, but I > don't think it hurts to have them. If the information model captures parameters and results of a traceroute measurement, there should never be any undefined or unknown parameters. Even if the traceroute measurement used some default parameters of a specific traceroute *implementation*, the information model should contain the actual parameters used. Different tracerotue implementations have different defaults, so I don't see how the information model can have any defaults that are valid for all implementations. >>> Section 3., paragraph 3: >>> > in the path). Upon receiving a probe, the first hop host >>> decreases >>> > the TTL value by one. >>> >>> Nit: Routers can decrease the TTL by more than one. > > Is this a big issue or can we fix this in IESG-LC? This is a nit that can be fixed with an RFC Editor Note. Lars --Apple-Mail-38-56337423 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGQDCCAvkw ggJioAMCAQICEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDEwNDE2MTE1NFoXDTA4MDEwNDE2MTE1 NFowXDEPMA0GA1UEBBMGRWdnZXJ0MQ0wCwYDVQQqEwRMYXJzMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtMYXJzIEVnZ2Vy dDEkMCIGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYVbGFycy5lZ2dlcnRAbm9raWEuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA26hjntVPZMiwh4d8tyuk9KiucvG92BVUGArk5zO1jhmq7tLFgU1mqcIg VGumfQqjkAzIuh83kxIiqBrB05Wvxp85apwt4sUCvzMe8mQWzZZZYp0rBzwpOj+VC5pxsMRYtYW+ BaTFBEmvFr7D7C7roZUk0lDppS5SZFs4SQbEe9ykB9aeUf1iTiw2+ikyP2+JEYto14WYCoxFWbms FbQ1uaaK+yn1WH2YHhyMfi0IOxuT0jtbsngjHJMpWIqq334zBhj+rPSUug47YBHr41FCDMHbbbjv WbyTyDYneOW3WY8LY8bGWVlAknQGB7lgduShe6e0RI/7SL/VE6X27lM9LwIDAQABozIwMDAgBgNV HREEGTAXgRVsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBub2tpYS5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUF AAOBgQCx3nxxTg/WowobVTRXBiXUEEZj4LBiunWbuAnR0UbJIgijvq3JbiJvZo2gUGiW9LPaHSBz 4oxT1VR/S/6O0a4e87oV5cOQm6ReB68o9rDfUzxHTwoCfv2wwMwBrXyzQMjyQK4Lt8siV41gmZpm rSXMhjTJdd9uYYNoZKQLq+VM+TCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEaMBgG A1UEChMRVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMg RGl2aXNpb24xJDAiBgNVBAMTG1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTErMCkGCSqGSIb3 DQEJARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJlZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcwMDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3 MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5 KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065yplaHmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me7L3N9VvyGna9 fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNaLIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FWy688Cwfn8R+RNiQqE88r1fOCdz0Dviv+ uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUqVIUPSAR/p7bRPGEEQB5kGXJgt/sCAwEAAaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMB Af8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3 dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWlsQ0EuY3JsMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgG A1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVsMi0xMzgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcP f6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYfqi2fNi/A9BxQIJNwPP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH 2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9lX5Xa9/eH1sYITq726jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8x ggMQMIIDDAIBATB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAo UHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQ a3GQsUdC7WDruGWZh/A+4jAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBbzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcB MBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNzA5MjgwNzI2NThaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBQL2V45+p841GZz agLnllSOwb+nITCBhQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMXgwdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwgYcGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMXigdjBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UE AxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAH2mDfd26M3+maPmlLNRkxPYK2v/7KEkpULs5CUiI9q3nFd2S/OZY c3iojKAUUMy0TMY/I2tfHEJNPUC9T3gss/YzgybAwna818pqQjSNIFVdWXVozGUAzlL36Yqx7E+4 UyUUhibBU9HVGSjm5C7TsF9hv1YvtzDYCa9JuGb3oKc8ynJ8qPHnIWAy/J8zQWFhloS4Bx+wTMfa DmCZ22yYguVg1UnLewSo9yAfLRhDQof/1daLanK1VRgEF5vbH5xpq876iDLbwooMWmagO1lwIaUA 7EA26pYQfqKR7y8ch+So3VhF1X9At7/ihwvMPJXkFhbmEW4rl3SwommccirbPgAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-38-56337423-- --===============1945561865== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============1945561865==-- From Harrisongez@hvl-pr.de Fri Sep 28 03:37:20 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbAPY-000138-BT for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:37:20 -0400 Received: from [89.137.134.247] (helo=[89.137.134.247]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbAPT-0005cs-Fc for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 03:37:16 -0400 Received: from seulmotors3 ([154.158.20.91] helo=seulmotors3) by [89.137.134.247] ( sendmail 8.13.3/8.13.1) with esmtpa id 1jffwC-000NMO-jr for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:37:17 +0300 Message-ID: <000201c801a2$5bdb7d60$f7868959@seulmotors3> From: "Hedzer Harrison" To: Subject: mfhi Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:37:01 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0003_01C801BB.8128B560" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C801BB.8128B560 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mining Sector --- Delta Mining UPDATE HOT SECTOR: Additional information on (O_T_C: D M X C) D M X C is = expected to arrive soon. 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0003_01C801BB.8128B560-- From Sanjay@firezone.hu Fri Sep 28 08:30:27 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbEzD-0001Ie-J2 for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:30:27 -0400 Received: from cc1048911-a.zwoll1.ov.home.nl ([82.74.194.161]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbEzD-0004cP-4Q for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:30:27 -0400 Received: from cc1048911-a by firezone.hu with ASMTP id B253AE01 for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:30:59 +0200 Received: from cc1048911-a ([101.197.84.59]) by firezone.hu with ESMTP id C77565F9C58A for ; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:30:59 +0200 Message-ID: <242A12E8.E4BC7ED0@firezone.hu> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:30:22 +0200 From: "Sanjay Mihic" User-Agent: Thunderbird 1.5.0.10 (Windows/20070221) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org Subject: nervalta Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 3.6 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Mining Sector --- Delta Mining UPDATE HOT SECTOR: Additional information on (O_T_C: D M X C) D M X C is expected to arrive soon. For those of you who currently own this company this will be great news. For those that don't currently own this company, you need to get in on this now. The company recently traded as high as .13 and with any significant news should be able to see (if not exceed) those prices again. Contact your broker now, don't miss this opportunity in D M X C! From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 08:59:55 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbFNo-000575-HH; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:55:52 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbFNm-00050s-Cz for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:55:50 -0400 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.19.2]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbFNe-0007Tg-2v for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 08:55:48 -0400 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id 3A60C23F1A; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:55:27 +0200 (CEST) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id E17D723F45; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:55:25 +0200 (CEST) Received: from guest-wv-41.ripe.net (gw.office.nsrp.ripe.net [193.0.1.126]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81FA2F583; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:55:25 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46FCF9BD.7060301@ripe.net> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:55:25 +0200 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars Eggert , IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000000 / -4.4 X-RIPE-Signature: 39bc954d01f31ef6ffefa938663c3e4e X-Spam-Score: -8.0 (--------) X-Scan-Signature: 0ddefe323dd869ab027dbfff7eff0465 Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Lars, others, >>>> Section 5.2., paragraph 0: >>>> > 5.2. Information Elements >>>> >>>> Does it make sense to have default values for the information >>>> elements >>>> at all? I mean, the data captured by the information model is the >>>> result of a particular traceroute measurement, which will have been >>>> taken with a fully specified set of parameters. So the defaults will >>>> never be actually used, no? >> >> I'd personally prefer sensible defaults for values over "undefined" or >> "NaN" when creating a new instance of a measurement. That way, I don't >> have to remember that my code should change the values. YMMV, but I >> don't think it hurts to have them. > > If the information model captures parameters and results of a traceroute > measurement, there should never be any undefined or unknown parameters. > Even if the traceroute measurement used some default parameters of a > specific traceroute *implementation*, the information model should > contain the actual parameters used. Different tracerotue > implementations have different defaults, so I don't see how the > information model can have any defaults that are valid for all > implementations. There are a couple of things where (at least all implementations that I've seen) traceroute uses whatever the operating system returns. The default G/W is one example, if one runs traceroute on a box with two connections, it will pick whatever the O/S picks when the program is run. There are more and for lots of measurements, this will be good enough. I agree that it should be clear from the data that the user didn't set this parameter. So, how about setting all elements by default to something that is clearly "impossible"? Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is one of the choices leaving the office open? Alan Greenspan on the next elections _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 09:05:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbFV1-0007X5-72; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:19 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbFV0-0007Vq-7f for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:18 -0400 Received: from smtp.nokia.com ([131.228.20.170] helo=mgw-ext11.nokia.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbFUo-0007dD-Vz for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:03:13 -0400 Received: from esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com (esebh108.ntc.nokia.com [172.21.143.145]) by mgw-ext11.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l8SD2DH9026755; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:03:02 +0300 Received: from esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.143.33]) by esebh108.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:02:43 +0300 Received: from esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com ([172.21.138.183]) by esebh103.NOE.Nokia.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:02:43 +0300 Received: from mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com ([172.21.143.97]) by esebh102.NOE.Nokia.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:02:42 +0300 Received: from [172.21.35.49] (esdhcp03549.research.nokia.com [172.21.35.49]) by mgw-int02.ntc.nokia.com (Switch-3.2.5/Switch-3.2.5) with ESMTP id l8SD2Zok021163; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:02:35 +0300 In-Reply-To: <46FCF9BD.7060301@ripe.net> References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> <46FCF9BD.7060301@ripe.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v752.3) Message-Id: From: Lars Eggert Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:02:35 +0300 To: ext Henk Uijterwaal X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.752.3) X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Sep 2007 13:02:42.0820 (UTC) FILETIME=[DB3E2440:01C801CF] X-Nokia-AV: Clean X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 92df29fa99cf13e554b84c8374345c17 Cc: IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============1869174040==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org --===============1869174040== Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=sha1; boundary=Apple-Mail-16-76474669; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature" --Apple-Mail-16-76474669 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; delsp=yes; format=flowed On 2007-9-28, at 15:55, ext Henk Uijterwaal wrote: > I agree that it should be clear from the data that the user didn't set > this parameter. Shouldn't the data be set to the value that was the default of the particular traceroute implementation for that parameter? > So, how about setting all elements by default to > something that is clearly "impossible"? Lars --Apple-Mail-16-76474669 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Type: application/pkcs7-signature; name=smime.p7s Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=smime.p7s MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExCzAJBgUrDgMCGgUAMIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAQAAoIIGQDCCAvkw ggJioAMCAQICEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwYjELMAkGA1UEBhMCWkEx JTAjBgNVBAoTHFRoYXd0ZSBDb25zdWx0aW5nIChQdHkpIEx0ZC4xLDAqBgNVBAMTI1RoYXd0ZSBQ ZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBJc3N1aW5nIENBMB4XDTA3MDEwNDE2MTE1NFoXDTA4MDEwNDE2MTE1 NFowXDEPMA0GA1UEBBMGRWdnZXJ0MQ0wCwYDVQQqEwRMYXJzMRQwEgYDVQQDEwtMYXJzIEVnZ2Vy dDEkMCIGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYVbGFycy5lZ2dlcnRAbm9raWEuY29tMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEF AAOCAQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEA26hjntVPZMiwh4d8tyuk9KiucvG92BVUGArk5zO1jhmq7tLFgU1mqcIg VGumfQqjkAzIuh83kxIiqBrB05Wvxp85apwt4sUCvzMe8mQWzZZZYp0rBzwpOj+VC5pxsMRYtYW+ BaTFBEmvFr7D7C7roZUk0lDppS5SZFs4SQbEe9ykB9aeUf1iTiw2+ikyP2+JEYto14WYCoxFWbms FbQ1uaaK+yn1WH2YHhyMfi0IOxuT0jtbsngjHJMpWIqq334zBhj+rPSUug47YBHr41FCDMHbbbjv WbyTyDYneOW3WY8LY8bGWVlAknQGB7lgduShe6e0RI/7SL/VE6X27lM9LwIDAQABozIwMDAgBgNV HREEGTAXgRVsYXJzLmVnZ2VydEBub2tpYS5jb20wDAYDVR0TAQH/BAIwADANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQUF AAOBgQCx3nxxTg/WowobVTRXBiXUEEZj4LBiunWbuAnR0UbJIgijvq3JbiJvZo2gUGiW9LPaHSBz 4oxT1VR/S/6O0a4e87oV5cOQm6ReB68o9rDfUzxHTwoCfv2wwMwBrXyzQMjyQK4Lt8siV41gmZpm rSXMhjTJdd9uYYNoZKQLq+VM+TCCAz8wggKooAMCAQICAQ0wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQAwgdExCzAJ BgNVBAYTAlpBMRUwEwYDVQQIEwxXZXN0ZXJuIENhcGUxEjAQBgNVBAcTCUNhcGUgVG93bjEaMBgG A1UEChMRVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcxKDAmBgNVBAsTH0NlcnRpZmljYXRpb24gU2VydmljZXMg RGl2aXNpb24xJDAiBgNVBAMTG1RoYXd0ZSBQZXJzb25hbCBGcmVlbWFpbCBDQTErMCkGCSqGSIb3 DQEJARYccGVyc29uYWwtZnJlZW1haWxAdGhhd3RlLmNvbTAeFw0wMzA3MTcwMDAwMDBaFw0xMzA3 MTYyMzU5NTlaMGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAoUHR5 KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQTCBnzAN BgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOBjQAwgYkCgYEAxKY8VXNV+065yplaHmjAdQRwnd/p/6Me7L3N9VvyGna9 fww6YfK/Uc4B1OVQCjDXAmNaLIkVcI7dyfArhVqqP3FWy688Cwfn8R+RNiQqE88r1fOCdz0Dviv+ uxg+B79AgAJk16emu59l0cUqVIUPSAR/p7bRPGEEQB5kGXJgt/sCAwEAAaOBlDCBkTASBgNVHRMB Af8ECDAGAQH/AgEAMEMGA1UdHwQ8MDowOKA2oDSGMmh0dHA6Ly9jcmwudGhhd3RlLmNvbS9UaGF3 dGVQZXJzb25hbEZyZWVtYWlsQ0EuY3JsMAsGA1UdDwQEAwIBBjApBgNVHREEIjAgpB4wHDEaMBgG A1UEAxMRUHJpdmF0ZUxhYmVsMi0xMzgwDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEFBQADgYEASIzRUIPqCy7MDaNmrGcP f6+svsIXoUOWlJ1/TCG4+DYfqi2fNi/A9BxQIJNwPP2t4WFiw9k6GX6EsZkbAMUaC4J0niVQlGLH 2ydxVyWN3amcOY6MIE9lX5Xa9/eH1sYITq726jTlEBpbNU1341YheILcIRk13iSx0x1G/11fZU8x ggMQMIIDDAIBATB2MGIxCzAJBgNVBAYTAlpBMSUwIwYDVQQKExxUaGF3dGUgQ29uc3VsdGluZyAo UHR5KSBMdGQuMSwwKgYDVQQDEyNUaGF3dGUgUGVyc29uYWwgRnJlZW1haWwgSXNzdWluZyBDQQIQ a3GQsUdC7WDruGWZh/A+4jAJBgUrDgMCGgUAoIIBbzAYBgkqhkiG9w0BCQMxCwYJKoZIhvcNAQcB MBwGCSqGSIb3DQEJBTEPFw0wNzA5MjgxMzAyMzZaMCMGCSqGSIb3DQEJBDEWBBQ6u/Iu9bJj397I XakAQTHzmpMwujCBhQYJKwYBBAGCNxAEMXgwdjBiMQswCQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhh d3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UEAxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVt YWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIwgYcGCyqGSIb3DQEJEAILMXigdjBiMQsw CQYDVQQGEwJaQTElMCMGA1UEChMcVGhhd3RlIENvbnN1bHRpbmcgKFB0eSkgTHRkLjEsMCoGA1UE AxMjVGhhd3RlIFBlcnNvbmFsIEZyZWVtYWlsIElzc3VpbmcgQ0ECEGtxkLFHQu1g67hlmYfwPuIw DQYJKoZIhvcNAQEBBQAEggEAsd7KIS/9HlCn9ckWKEgVV64Eg84iG+swnVYM6pFP34HFaFxIderU sAbf83HgYBHVinniBvvQpaoRG/HGor7Y1KLfGlpBF72q+t0MYvhc0VtqEhKSN7mQuCEWw0D5RotV fMJ6Be9LPZSH35dPsF7CNBwbg/Kn/ntJQUdQLvDe37+39AphDIcp6bEVolSEhLwTaWt91CTywnRY TKcB4klZ4JtrR/dNH+weHMMLtUuOKt3N3dZYS4Q/03ltevQznP0Ijm77bhYNWHEq8ZM2ednYYWOi Amvex+ePadLFzIlMrDJHj7y3QRMsec2RDSTTJm+FOT1+jgRKe+DG+6RRRpy43AAAAAAAAA== --Apple-Mail-16-76474669-- --===============1869174040== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============1869174040==-- From harry@geocities.com Fri Sep 28 10:30:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbGrW-0000AA-UF for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:30:38 -0400 Received: from [124.200.118.79] (helo=124.200.118.79) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbGrP-0007wn-FX for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 10:30:36 -0400 Received: from [124.200.118.79] by g.mx.mail.yahoo.com; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 14:30:18 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c801dc$0563046d$37818891@casrc> From: "keith pete" To: Subject: RE: Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 12:42:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0005_01C801DC.0562F2A7" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.3790.2663 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.3790.2757 X-Spam-Score: 4.9 (++++) X-Scan-Signature: 72dbfff5c6b8ad2b1b727c13be042129 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C801DC.0562F2A7 Content-Type: text/plain; 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    All your needs will be met at Canadian Health&Care Mall. ------=_NextPart_000_0005_01C801DC.0562F2A7-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 11:33:38 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbHnU-0002pS-7S; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:30:32 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbHnS-0002lE-FA for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:30:30 -0400 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbHnS-00025e-5s for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:30:30 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id A5DF647C85; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 27656-02; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:30:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foo.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id B440647D21; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:30:28 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46FD1DF7.8010504@internet2.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 09:29:59 -0600 From: "Jeff W. Boote" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars Eggert Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> <46FCF9BD.7060301@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7655788c23eb79e336f5f8ba8bce7906 Cc: ext Henk Uijterwaal , IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Lars Eggert wrote: > On 2007-9-28, at 15:55, ext Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >> I agree that it should be clear from the data that the user didn't set >> this parameter. > > Shouldn't the data be set to the value that was the default of the > particular traceroute implementation for that parameter? > >> So, how about setting all elements by default to >> something that is clearly "impossible"? IMHO, the point of having a default in an information model is to show the values that were not 'captured' by the application doing the measurement. Therefore the defaults should be a special value of some sort. But, there should be a way to determine 'error' special values from simply 'missing' special values. 'error' is probably not relevant for these particular values, but I bring up this issue simply because I think it is important that the normative text make the point that these special values do not indicate an error, but simply data that was not collected. jeff _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 17:49:07 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNeH-0005sx-Ae; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:45:25 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNeF-0005ZT-V5 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:45:23 -0400 Received: from brixmail.brixnet.com ([63.122.27.37] helo=brixmail.ma.brixnet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNe9-0006yB-Pq for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:45:18 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:45:03 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46B751F7.1000306@internet2.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: very drafty IANA section for twamp Thread-Index: AcfYSkhuVQuRao1QQzqRC5gmM7/rwgpziDIw From: "Hedayat, Kaynam" To: "Matthew J Zekauskas" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] RE: very drafty IANA section for twamp X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Mat, Thank you for the text. To answer your questions: - The authors have no objections to have 0 as reserved, generally this is a good idea. - I will add similar text as section 2 of OWAMP with regards to network byte order. - The case of headings in your text is consistent with the rest of the document. - We don't see a need to revise the initial paragraph. Regards, Kaynam & Al > -----Original Message----- > From: Matthew J Zekauskas [mailto:matt@internet2.edu]=20 > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:53 PM > To: Hedayat, Kaynam > Cc: Matt Zekauskas; IETF IPPM WG > Subject: very drafty IANA section for twamp >=20 > Here is my initial public cut on the text for TWAMP. I still=20 > have some questions, and perhaps working group members have=20 > an opinion (or better way to state some of the text). >=20 > If it does not already do so, perhaps we should say somewhere=20 > "TWAMP-Control" is an update of OWAMP-Control for two-way=20 > measurements, rather than just calling it "TWAMP-Control". I=20 > think it might even say that somewhere... [this is a=20 > question from me] >=20 >=20 > x =3D=3D 8 in the current draft: >=20 >=20 > --=3D=3D=3D begin text =3D=3D=3D-- >=20 > x. IANA Considerations >=20 > IANA has allocated a well-known TCP port number (861) for the=20 > OWAMP-Control part of the OWAMP [RFC4656] protocol which also=20 > applies to the TWAMP-Control part of the TWAMP protocol. >=20 > Since TWAMP adds an additional OWAMP-Control command to the=20 > OWAMP-Control specification, and describes behavior when this=20 > control command is used, we will create an IANA registry for=20 > this field. The field is not explicitly named in [RFC4656]=20 > but is called out for each command. >=20 > x.1 Registry Specification >=20 > IANA will create an OWAMP-Control Command registry. =20 > OWAMP-Control commands are specified by the first octet in=20 > OWAMP-Control messages as shown in section 3.4 of [RFC4656],=20 > and modified by this document. > Thus this registry may contain sixteen possible values. >=20 > x.2 Registry Management >=20 > Because the registry may only contain sixteen values, and=20 > because OWAMP and TWAMP are IETF protocols, this registry=20 > must only be updated by "IETF Consensus" as specified in=20 > [RFC2434] -- an RFC documenting the use that is approved by=20 > the IESG. We expect that new values will be assigned as=20 > monotonically increasing integers in the range [0-15], unless=20 > there is a good reason to do otherwise. >=20 >=20 > x.3 Experimental Numbers >=20 > [RFC3692] recommends allocating an appropriate number of=20 > values for experimentation and testing. It is not clear to=20 > the authors exactly how many might be useful in this space,=20 > nor if it would be useful that they were easily=20 > distinguishable or at the "high end" of the number range. =20 > Two might be useful, say one for session control, and one for=20 > session fetch. On the other hand, a single number would=20 > allow for unlimited extension, because the format of the rest=20 > of the message could be tailored, with allocation of other=20 > numbers done once usefulness has been proven. Thus, this=20 > document will allocate one number, the next sequential number=20 > 6, as designated for experimentation and testing. >=20 > x.4 Initial Registry Contents >=20 > OWAMP-Control Command Registry >=20 > Value Description Semantics Definition > 0 Reserved > 1 Request-Session RFC4656, Section 3.5 > 2 Start-Sessions RFC4656, Section 3.7 > 3 Stop-Sessions RFC4656, Section 3.8 > 4 Fetch-Session RFC4656, Section 3.9 > 5 Request-TW-Session this document, Section 3.5 > 6 Experimentation undefined, see Section x.3. >=20 > --=3D=3D=3D end text =3D=3D=3D-- >=20 > New Normative Reference: Guidelines for IANA Considerations,=20 > RFC 2434/BCP 26 New Informative Reference: Assigning=20 > Experimental and Testing Numbers Considered Useful, RFC 3692/BCP 82 >=20 > Other questions and issues: >=20 > * should we have 0 as reserved? > * any need to mention "network byte order" here in this document? > * is the case of the headings consistent with the rest of the=20 > document? > * does the initial para need a revision? it is carried over=20 > from the current draft. >=20 > * we should probably write an Errata request for 4656 that=20 > points to this document, so there is a forward reference. >=20 > --Matt >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 17:56:41 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNny-0003m1-A1; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:55:26 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNnx-0003lw-GT for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:55:25 -0400 Received: from brixmail.brixnet.com ([63.122.27.37] helo=brixmail.ma.brixnet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNnu-00079H-C9 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:55:25 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:55:16 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <46B7A215.7050902@internet2.edu> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: TWAMP protocol Thread-Index: AcfYehG0vnerVBtISAq4pFmJrBD1Hwpnsi2A From: "Hedayat, Kaynam" To: "Jeff W. Boote" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Cc: Matthew J Zekauskas , IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] RE: TWAMP protocol X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Jeff, Thank you for your comments. See reply below. Regards, Kaynam & Al=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Jeff W. Boote [mailto:boote@internet2.edu]=20 > Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 6:35 PM > To: Hedayat, Kaynam > Cc: Matthew J Zekauskas; IETF IPPM WG > Subject: TWAMP protocol >=20 > I have a couple of high-level questions/suggestions for this protocol. >=20 > (I'm sorry I have not looked at this until now - I realize=20 > this could be pretty late in the process and I understand=20 > these suggestions could get the same amount of attention I=20 > have given twamp up till now. ;) ) >=20 > 1) Why not use the extension mechanism built into OWAMP to=20 > indicate the additional/different functionality? (The 'Modes'=20 > word of the server greeting.) >=20 > Currently, there is no way for a twamp or owamp client to=20 > determine the difference between an owamp and twamp server=20 > until it actually requests a test.=20 > This is after the authentication phase. If this protocol is=20 > going to piggy-back on the same port number, I think it=20 > should be a more cooperative citizen. >=20 > The owamp protocol allowed for an extension mechanism, I=20 > think it should be used for this. I think it would also make=20 > the additional IANA registry unneeded. (An errata to the=20 > owamp spec would be good to include the additional mode bits used.) Although this is a good idea please note that we still need the IANA Registry since the TWAMP Request-Session is a new message that is different than the OWAMP Request-Session message. Your suggestion does move up the control of the mode selection higher up in the protocol. However, at this stage and with the amount of changes it introduces in the protocol we feel that the current mechanism meets the needs of the protocol. >=20 > 2) I'm a bit concerned with the fact that the request-session=20 > does not indicate anything about the schedule at all.=20 > Minimally, as someone running a server, I would want a way to=20 > indicate how much traffic I was willing to accept. There does=20 > not seem to be any way for the server to decide how intensive=20 > of a test to allow. If nothing else, the schedule could be=20 > used to indicate a MAX rate that the client promises not to=20 > exceed. (Obviously, it could lie and attempt to use more.=20 > But, it would also be possible for the reflector to report=20 > the abuse and shut down that socket.) TWAMP servers are meant to be implemented with low overhead on the server (simply reflecting packets). The schedule made more sense in the OWAMP case since the server processes the packets. That said, in TWAMP the servers can certainly reject new sessions if they are over-burdened. >=20 > jeff >=20 _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From kevparadedesignnir@paradedesign.com Fri Sep 28 18:07:03 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNzD-0005Vy-B8; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:07:03 -0400 Received: from [195.95.151.163] (helo=[195.95.151.163]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNz0-0007OA-Hs; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:06:58 -0400 Received: from [195.95.151.163] by mail.paradedesign.com; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:12:21 +0200 Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:12:21 +0200 From: "Orville Lay" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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    http://processwood.cn/ ------------254096EC8BD3712-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 18:10:23 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbO0B-0005vZ-1g; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:08:03 -0400 Received: from [10.90.34.44] (helo=chiedprmail1.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNxh-0004aX-B1 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:05:29 -0400 Received: from brixmail.brixnet.com ([63.122.27.37] helo=brixmail.ma.brixnet.com) by chiedprmail1.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbNxg-0000j5-Ql for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:05:29 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.5 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: RE: [ippm] TWAMP Remote Session-Sender Initiation Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:05:28 -0400 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <8F242B230AD6474C8E7815DE0B4982D7070592B5@EXV1.corp.adtran.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: [ippm] TWAMP Remote Session-Sender Initiation Thread-Index: AcfYpQX6EplC6g6TS2e6rjP+8PdVYApdldYQ From: "Hedayat, Kaynam" To: "WALT STEVERSON" , X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 07d4bcb4600b627a0786c2557bc62e06 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:08:01 -0400 Cc: X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="===============0750333351==" Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --===============0750333351== Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C8021B.ADDC9775" This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8021B.ADDC9775 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Walt, =20 These are fine suggestions but out of the scope of the current TWAMP draft. Al and I are interested to work on these ideas with you and propose these extensions. Are you planning to attend the next IETF meeting? =20 Regards, Kaynam ________________________________ From: WALT STEVERSON [mailto:walt.steverson@adtran.com]=20 Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 11:43 PM To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: [ippm] TWAMP Remote Session-Sender Initiation =09 =09 Would there be any interest in defining a way for a remote client to request that a Session-Sender initiate a test session to a Session-Reflector and then gather the results of that test? Right now a Control-Client can effectively negotiate the configuration and starting of a Session-Reflector. Why not allow a Control-Client to also negotiate the configuration and starting of a Session-Sender? Two (or more) test endpoints could be placed in a network and a central agent could open TWAMP-Control connections to both endpoints, configure one as the Session-Sender, and the other as the Session-Reflector. This might involve modification to the TWAMP Request-TW-Session message behavior (keying off the Conf-Sender/Conf-Receiver fields?) or maybe a completely new message type. When a test completes the central agent would probably want to gather the results. This might mean reinstating the Fetch-Session and Fetch-Ack messages in the TWAMP-Control protocol so that all the results that are collected by the Session-Sender could be sent back to the central agent for further processing. Of course that would require the OWAMP Fetch-Ack message format to be extended to include Sender Timestamp, Sender Error Estimate, and Sender Sequence Number information in each packet record. =09 Expanded Role Diagram: =09 +----------------+ +-------------------+ | Session-Sender |<--TWAMP-Test-->| Session-Reflector | +----------------+ +-------------------+=20 ^ ^ | | | |=20 v v +----------------+ +----------------+ | Control-Server | | Control-Server |=20 +----------------+ +----------------+ ^ ^ ^ | | | | | | | +--TWAMP-Control--+ +-TWAMP-Control-+=20 | | | | | | TWAMP-Control | | | | | | | | v v v +--------------+ +----------------+=20 | Fetch-Client | | Control-Client | +--------------+ +----------------+ =09 =09 Collapsed Role Diagram: =09 +----------------+ +-------------------+ | Session-Sender |<--TWAMP-Test-->| Session-Reflector | | Control-Server | | Control-Server | +----------------+ +-------------------+=20 ^ ^ | | | |=20 TWAMP-Control | | | | | | +------ TWAMP-Control -------+ | | v v +----------------+ | Control-Client | | Fetch-Client | +----------------+ =09 =09 This behavior could be made purely optional if it used the existing TWAMP Request-TW-Session message and any Control-Server that did not support this functionality could just refuse the session in its Accept-Session message (accept field =3D=3D 3, "Some aspect of request = is not supported").=20 =09 =09 The argument could be made that it is possible to setup an equivalent remote bidirectional test with OWAMP using simultaneous one-way test tests so why should TWAMP be expanded to do it too? In the abstract section of the TWAMP draft it says that OWAMP does not accommodate round-trip or two-way measurements. Also, the Reflector could still be a TWAMP Light reflector and then the burden of implementing TWAMP-Control protocol resides in the endpoint that serves as the Session-Sender (see diagram below). =20 TWAMP Light Diagram: =09 +----------------+ +-------------------+ | Session-Sender |<--TWAMP-Test-->| Session-Reflector | | Control-Server | | | +----------------+ +-------------------+=20 ^ ^ | | TWAMP-Control | | | | | | +-----------------------------+ | | v v +----------------+ | Control-Client | | Fetch-Client | +----------------+ =09 =09 Something similar could also be accomplished with SNMP MIBs for configuring TWAMP Session-Senders and for gathering the resulting test measurements. However, this is so similar to the existing OWAMP-Control behavior (ie. Fetch-Session, Fetch-Ack, Request-Session) that, in my opinion, it seems more natural to extend the TWAMP-Control protocol to support this functionality. =20 Regards, Walt Steverson =20 ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8021B.ADDC9775 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Walt,
     
    These are fine suggestions but out of the scope = of the=20 current TWAMP draft. Al and I are interested to work on these ideas with = you and=20 propose these extensions. Are you planning to attend the next IETF=20 meeting?
     
    Regards,
    Kaynam

    From: WALT STEVERSON=20 [mailto:walt.steverson@adtran.com]
    Sent: Monday, August 06, = 2007=20 11:43 PM
    To: ippm@ietf.org
    Subject: [ippm] TWAMP = Remote=20 Session-Sender Initiation

    Would there be = any=20 interest in defining a way for a remote client to request that a=20 Session-Sender initiate a test session to a Session-Reflector and then = gather=20 the results of that test?  Right now a Control-Client can=20 effectively negotiate the configuration and starting of a=20 Session-Reflector.  Why not allow a Control-Client to also = negotiate=20 the configuration and starting of a Session-Sender?  Two (or = more)=20 test endpoints could be placed in a network and a central agent could = open=20 TWAMP-Control connections to both endpoints, configure one as the=20 Session-Sender, and the other as the = Session-Reflector.  This might=20 involve modification to the TWAMP Request-TW-Session message behavior = (keying=20 off the Conf-Sender/Conf-Receiver fields?) or maybe a completely new = message=20 type.  When a test completes the central agent would = probably=20 want to gather the results.  This might mean reinstating the = Fetch-Session and Fetch-Ack messages in the TWAMP-Control = protocol so=20 that all the results that are collected by the Session-Sender could be = sent=20 back to the central agent for further processing.  Of course = that=20 would require the OWAMP Fetch-Ack message format to be extended to = include=20 Sender Timestamp, Sender Error Estimate, and Sender Sequence Number=20 information in each packet record.

    Expanded Role=20 Diagram:


     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      +-------------------+
      = | Session-Sender |<--TWAMP-Test-->| Session-Reflector = |
     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      +-------------------+=20 =
              ^ &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;        ^
       =        |     =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    |
          &nbs= p;   |        &nbs= p;            = ;            =  |=20 =
              v &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;        v
     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      =20 +----------------+
      | Control-Server=20 = |            =     =20 | Control-Server |
     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      =20 = +----------------+
            ^&n= bsp; ^          &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p; ^
            |  = ;|            = ;            =             |=
            |  | &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;          |
     = ;       |  +--TWAMP-Control-= -+  +-TWAMP-Control-+=20 =
            |   &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;    |  |
        &nbs= p;   |        &nbs= p;           |&nbs= p; |
     =20 TWAMP-Control         =20    =20 = |  |
            | =             &= nbsp;      |  |
      &n= bsp;     |      &n= bsp;           &nb= sp; |  |
           &nbs= p;v           &nbs= p;        v  v
     = ;=20 +--------------+     +----------------+
      = |=20 Fetch-Client |     | = Control-Client |
     =20 +--------------+    =20 +----------------+

    Collapsed Role=20 Diagram:


     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      +-------------------+
      = | Session-Sender |<--TWAMP-Test-->| Session-Reflector = |
      |=20 Control-Server=20 = |            =    =20 | Control-Server    |
     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      +-------------------+=20 =
              ^ &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;        ^
       =        |     =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;    |
          &nbs= p;   |        &nbs= p;            = ;            =  |=20
       =20 = TWAMP-Control          =         =20 =          |=

              | =             &= nbsp;          =20 =          |
      &n= bsp;       |    &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;       =20 =          |
      &n= bsp;       |    =20 +------ TWAMP-Control=20 = -------+
              |=     =20 |
              v=20     v
     =20 +----------------+

      | = Control-Client=20 |
      | Fetch-Client   |
     =20 +----------------+

    This behavior = could be=20 made purely optional if it used the existing TWAMP Request-TW-Session = message=20 and any Control-Server that did not support this functionality could = just=20 refuse the session in its Accept-Session message (accept field = =3D=3D 3,=20 “Some aspect of request is not = supported”).=20

    The argument = could be made=20 that it is possible to setup an equivalent remote bidirectional test = with=20 OWAMP using simultaneous one-way test tests so why should TWAMP be = expanded to=20 do it too?  In the abstract section of the TWAMP draft it says = that OWAMP=20 does not accommodate round-trip or two-way measurements.  Also, = the=20 Reflector could still be a TWAMP Light reflector and then the burden = of=20 implementing TWAMP-Control protocol resides in the endpoint that = serves as the=20 Session-Sender (see diagram below).

     

    TWAMP Light=20 Diagram:


     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      +-------------------+
      = | Session-Sender |<--TWAMP-Test-->| Session-Reflector = |
      |=20 Control-Server=20 = |            =    =20 |=20 =             &= nbsp;     |
     =20 = +----------------+         &= nbsp;      +-------------------+=20 =
              ^ &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;           &nbs= p;        =20 = ^
              | &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;        =20 |

       =20 = TWAMP-Control          =             &= nbsp;     =20 |

              | =             &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;        =20 = |
              | &= nbsp;           &n= bsp;           &nb= sp;        =20 = |
              | &= nbsp;  =20 = +-----------------------------+
          &n= bsp;   |    =20 |
              v=20     v
     =20 +----------------+

      | = Control-Client=20 |
      | Fetch-Client   |
     =20 +----------------+

    Something = similar could=20 also be accomplished with SNMP MIBs for configuring TWAMP = Session-Senders and=20 for gathering the resulting test measurements.  However, this is = so=20 similar to the existing OWAMP-Control behavior (ie. Fetch-Session, = Fetch-Ack,=20 Request-Session) that, in my opinion, it seems more natural to extend = the=20 TWAMP-Control protocol to support this=20 functionality.

     

    Regards,
    Walt = Steverson

     

    ------_=_NextPart_001_01C8021B.ADDC9775-- --===============0750333351== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --===============0750333351==-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Fri Sep 28 19:02:05 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbOmd-0005WD-Vo; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:58:07 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbOmd-0005V8-11 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:58:07 -0400 Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([207.75.164.22]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbOmQ-0000C2-F2 for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:58:07 -0400 Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2009E47CCA; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:57:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from basie.internet2.edu ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (basie.internet2.edu [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 14576-10; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from foo.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by basie.internet2.edu (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE0447C8F; Fri, 28 Sep 2007 18:57:38 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <46FD86C5.1060603@internet2.edu> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 16:57:09 -0600 From: "Jeff W. Boote" User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Hedayat, Kaynam" References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by mail.internet2.edu virus scanner X-Scan-Signature: 00e94c813bef7832af255170dca19e36 Cc: Matthew J Zekauskas , IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] Re: TWAMP protocol X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Hedayat, Kaynam wrote: >> 1) Why not use the extension mechanism built into OWAMP to >> indicate the additional/different functionality? (The 'Modes' >> word of the server greeting.) >> >> Currently, there is no way for a twamp or owamp client to >> determine the difference between an owamp and twamp server >> until it actually requests a test. >> This is after the authentication phase. If this protocol is >> going to piggy-back on the same port number, I think it >> should be a more cooperative citizen. >> >> The owamp protocol allowed for an extension mechanism, I >> think it should be used for this. I think it would also make >> the additional IANA registry unneeded. (An errata to the >> owamp spec would be good to include the additional mode bits used.) > Although this is a good idea please note that we still need the IANA > Registry since the TWAMP Request-Session is a new message that is > different than the OWAMP Request-Session message. Your suggestion does > move up the control of the mode selection higher up in the protocol. > However, at this stage and with the amount of changes it introduces in > the protocol we feel that the current mechanism meets the needs of the > protocol. First, this does not address the point of how a twamp or owamp client would differentiate between these servers. These are fundamentally different tests, and I'm concerned with idea of having twamp clients attempting to run tests against existing owamp servers. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism to determine if the server is an owamp or twamp server, other than attempting to use this new message. An owamp server, not knowing anything about this message should just close the socket. That is not really a clear indication of the problem to the client. Second, I am curious what more you think would change in the protocol other than one bit of the mode word? Third, the reason I said the IANA registry would be unneeded, is that a different mode bit could just as easily indicate a completely different set of messages. I was referring to an IANA registry for the OWAMP-Control commands. It probably would still be useful to use an IANA registry to keep track of individual mode bits. The mode bits would represent the full set of protocol messages that are allowed for that given protocol mode. >> 2) I'm a bit concerned with the fact that the request-session >> does not indicate anything about the schedule at all. >> Minimally, as someone running a server, I would want a way to >> indicate how much traffic I was willing to accept. There does >> not seem to be any way for the server to decide how intensive >> of a test to allow. If nothing else, the schedule could be >> used to indicate a MAX rate that the client promises not to >> exceed. (Obviously, it could lie and attempt to use more. >> But, it would also be possible for the reflector to report >> the abuse and shut down that socket.) > TWAMP servers are meant to be implemented with low overhead on the > server (simply reflecting packets). The schedule made more sense in the > OWAMP case since the server processes the packets. That said, in TWAMP > the servers can certainly reject new sessions if they are over-burdened. It is of course possible for the server to deny new sessions if it is over-burdened. But, if you don't know how much traffic each session is likely to produce, how many should it accept? And what should a server do if several sessions begin to ramp up after they have been accepted? Presumably a server could kill existing sessions to reduce the load. However, I think it will be very difficult for clients to determine 'why' the sessions have started failing in that case. A limited amount of 'reservation' in the system allows much better predictability. This issue is not really that big of a deal to me. But, I can tell you based on owamp deployments, that users almost always want to limit the intensity of test traffic somehow. And that they are probably more likely to install twamp servers if there are available controls. The first issue is more important to me because I think this could adversely effect existing OWAMP servers and clients. jeff _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From hideo.loar@17gmedia.com Sat Sep 29 02:23:37 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbVjl-0007C3-Ia for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:23:37 -0400 Received: from [88.228.111.229] (helo=[88.228.111.229]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbVjg-0007AR-1H for ippm-archive@lists.ietf.org; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 02:23:33 -0400 Received: by 10.201.226.206 with SMTP id TtyisrfbTNgNv; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:24:45 +0300 (GMT) Received: by 192.168.67.232 with SMTP id nXxdKIjAWkSkPb.3126643298031; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:24:43 +0300 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c80261$6ae5d6b0$e56fe458@muhasebe> From: "hideo loar" To: Subject: iagukay Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 09:24:40 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01C8027A.90330EB0" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.3028 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.3028 X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01C8027A.90330EB0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-9" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi To ippm-archive Emergency report. 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Boote" , "Hedayat, Kaynam" From: Al Morton Subject: Re: [ippm] Re: TWAMP protocol In-Reply-To: <46FD86C5.1060603@internet2.edu> References: <46FD86C5.1060603@internet2.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-Spam-Score: 1.5 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 944ecb6e61f753561f559a497458fb4f Cc: Matthew J Zekauskas , IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Jeff, Please see some additional thoughts and replies below. Al At 06:57 PM 9/28/2007, Jeff W. Boote wrote: >Hedayat, Kaynam wrote: >>>1) Why not use the extension mechanism built into OWAMP to >>>indicate the additional/different functionality? (The 'Modes' word >>>of the server greeting.) >>> >>>Currently, there is no way for a twamp or owamp client to >>>determine the difference between an owamp and twamp server until >>>it actually requests a test. This is after the authentication >>>phase. If this protocol is going to piggy-back on the same port >>>number, I think it should be a more cooperative citizen. >>> >>>The owamp protocol allowed for an extension mechanism, I think it >>>should be used for this. I think it would also make the additional >>>IANA registry unneeded. (An errata to the owamp spec would be good >>>to include the additional mode bits used.) >>Although this is a good idea please note that we still need the IANA >>Registry since the TWAMP Request-Session is a new message that is >>different than the OWAMP Request-Session message. Your suggestion does >>move up the control of the mode selection higher up in the protocol. >>However, at this stage and with the amount of changes it introduces in >>the protocol we feel that the current mechanism meets the needs of the >>protocol. Jeff wrote: >First, this does not address the point of how a twamp or owamp >client would differentiate between these servers. These are >fundamentally different tests, and I'm concerned with idea of having >twamp clients attempting to run tests against existing owamp >servers. There doesn't seem to be any mechanism to determine if the >server is an owamp or twamp server, other than attempting to use >this new message. An owamp server, not knowing anything about this >message should just close the socket. That is not really a clear >indication of the problem to the client. Why wouldn't the OWAMP-only Server respond with a non-zero Accept field in the Accept-Session message? This would provide a clear indication, and then the Server is prohibited from simply closing the connection. OWAMP says: ... >3.3. Values of the Accept Field > Accept values are used throughout the OWAMP-Control protocol to > communicate the server response to client requests. The full set of > valid Accept field values are as follows: > 0 OK. > 1 Failure, reason unspecified (catch-all). > 2 Internal error. > 3 Some aspect of request is not supported. ... Values 1 or 3 seem applicable here. Also, in section 3.5 on the Accept Session Message: ... > In this message, zero in the Accept field means that the server is > willing to conduct the session. A non-zero value indicates rejection > of the request. The full list of available Accept values is > described in Section 3.3, "Values of the Accept Field". > > If the server rejects a Request-Session message, it SHOULD not close > the TCP connection. The client MAY close it if it receives a > negative response to the Request-Session message. ... The expectation of Accept field usage seems like a reasonable interpretation of the OWAMP spec, to me. (unless there's an OWAMP paragraph that says "close the socket if an unexpected command is received" which wouldn't be very tuned-in to Postel's robustness principle http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc793#section-2.10 ). Jeff wrote: >Second, I am curious what more you think would change in the >protocol other than one bit of the mode word? I think the point is that this is *another change*, and the mantra has been to minimize changes to OWAMP when developing TWAMP. Jeff wrote: >Third, the reason I said the IANA registry would be unneeded, is >that a different mode bit could just as easily indicate a completely >different set of messages. I was referring to an IANA registry for >the OWAMP-Control commands. It probably would still be useful to use >an IANA registry to keep track of individual mode bits. The mode >bits would represent the full set of protocol messages that are >allowed for that given protocol mode. Right, yet another IANA registry would be needed to keep track of extensions to the mode bits. Kaynam and I concluded that the new Session Request command, with no schedule and other changes, would still require an IANA registry, so we propose to create only one at this time. Having the "mode" change a command so drastically didn't seem clear. Another view: we are envisioning *many* Server/Session-Reflectors that support TWAMP at a minimum, and perhaps a subset that support both. OWAMP-only clients have a simple way out of a session they can't support by using the Accept field. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From harpenamanmusicget@penamanmusic.com Sat Sep 29 11:33:50 2007 Return-path: Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbeKE-0001g3-4J; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:33:50 -0400 Received: from [200.216.212.125] (helo=[200.216.212.125]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbeK9-0000kj-M3; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 11:33:47 -0400 Received: from [200.216.212.125] by mail.penamanmusic.com; Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:33:42 -0300 Date: Sat, 29 Sep 2007 12:33:42 -0300 From: "Rosemarie Tran" X-Mailer: The Bat! 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    ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01C8034E.AE893860-- From ippm-bounces@ietf.org Sun Sep 30 07:54:28 2007 Return-path: Received: from [127.0.0.1] (helo=stiedprmman1.va.neustar.com) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbxJw-00007n-Bi; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:50:48 -0400 Received: from [10.91.34.44] (helo=ietf-mx.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbxJv-0008Uh-6r for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:50:47 -0400 Received: from postman.ripe.net ([193.0.19.2]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.43) id 1IbxJo-0000fl-Te for ippm@ietf.org; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:50:47 -0400 Received: by postman.ripe.net (Postfix, from userid 4008) id 47CE923FA1; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:50:32 +0200 (CEST) Received: from herring.ripe.net (herring.ripe.net [193.0.1.203]) by postman.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 758BD23FA3; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:50:30 +0200 (CEST) Received: from RIPE-NCC-101045.local (gw.office.nsrp.ripe.net [193.0.1.126]) by herring.ripe.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 642B32F583; Sun, 30 Sep 2007 13:50:30 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <46FD1E53.2040305@ripe.net> Date: Fri, 28 Sep 2007 17:31:31 +0200 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Thunderbird 2.0.0.6 (Macintosh/20070728) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lars Eggert Subject: Re: [ippm] AD review: draft-ietf-ippm-storetraceroutes-03 References: <45F6545C.8060507@ripe.net> <7B853912-640E-4604-8C07-639DED7AA762@nokia.com> <46FC94DE.2080405@ripe.net> <46FCF9BD.7060301@ripe.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-RIPE-Spam-Level: X-RIPE-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00,DATE_IN_PAST_24_48 X-RIPE-Spam-Status: N 0.000000 / -3.5 X-RIPE-Signature: 4bcb428e680bfcf2a5305f1238624c4e X-Spam-Score: -6.4 (------) X-Scan-Signature: 9466e0365fc95844abaf7c3f15a05c7d Cc: IETF IPPM WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Errors-To: ippm-bounces@ietf.org Lars Eggert wrote: > On 2007-9-28, at 15:55, ext Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >> I agree that it should be clear from the data that the user didn't set >> this parameter. > > Shouldn't the data be set to the value that was the default of the > particular traceroute implementation for that parameter? If the parameter is there, yes, I'd prefer that (rather than having to look up what it is for this implementation). So: = Default value is "impossible number" for a record. = If user sets it, that value = If not, whatever the default is for the implementation Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk.uijterwaal(at)ripe.net RIPE Network Coordination Centre http://www.amsterdamned.org/~henk P.O.Box 10096 Singel 258 Phone: +31.20.5354414 1001 EB Amsterdam 1016 AB Amsterdam Fax: +31.20.5354445 The Netherlands The Netherlands Mobile: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Is one of the choices leaving the office open? 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