From fontas@tik.ee.ethz.ch Fri Sep 2 05:27:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A155821F8DDC for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2011 05:27:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wW1GJv535EmJ for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2011 05:27:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch (smtp.ee.ethz.ch [129.132.2.219]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55E4A21F8DD9 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2011 05:27:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD7CD9314 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:29:19 +0200 (MEST) X-Virus-Scanned: by amavisd-new on smtp.ee.ethz.ch Received: from smtp.ee.ethz.ch ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (.ee.ethz.ch [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id PMC-7AMruWLn for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:29:19 +0200 (MEST) Received: from [82.130.103.55] (nb-10218.ethz.ch [82.130.103.55]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: dimitroc) by smtp.ee.ethz.ch (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 19944D9310 for ; Fri, 2 Sep 2011 14:29:19 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <4E60CC1F.30405@tik.ee.ethz.ch> Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 14:29:19 +0200 From: Xenofontas Dimitropoulos User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:6.0.1) Gecko/20110830 Thunderbird/6.0.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: ippm@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sun, 04 Sep 2011 21:27:14 -0700 Subject: [ippm] Traffic Monitoring and Analysis (TMA) 2012 CFP X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Sep 2011 12:28:55 -0000 [Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP] -------------------------------- TMA 2012 --- Call for Papers -------------------------------- 4th COST TMA International Workshop on Traffic Monitoring and Analysis Vienna, Austria, March 12, 2012 Co-located with Passive and Active Measurement (PAM) Conference 2012 http://tma2012.ftw.at/TMA/index.html After three successful editions of the TMA Workshop organized by the Traffic Monitoring and Analysis (TMA) COST Action, we are excited to announce the 4th edition that will be held in Vienna (Austria), co-located with the Passive and Active Measurement Conference. **** Scope of the Workshop We are soliciting network-measurement papers with an emphasis on experimental work that relate to the following topics: Traffic analysis, characterization, and classification New and improved measurement and monitoring methods and techniques Measurement-based applications Measurement-based network management Large scale monitoring and measurement Validation and benchmarking of measurement tools Measurement-based experiments: repeatability tests, data sharing, collaborative platforms Internet topologies Bandwidth estimation Software tools for analyzing and visualizing high-volume Internet-related datasets Distributed monitoring architectures Privacy-preserving network measurement and analysis Inter-domain and intra-domain routing Anomaly detection Measurement-related to data centers and cloud-based services Measurement-related to Virtualized systems Home networks measurements **** Paper Submission Submissions must not exceed 14 pages (8.5”x11”), including figures, tables, and references, using the LNCS format. We recommend using the LNCS users' guide to format your paper. Papers that exceed the 14 pages limitation will not be reviewed. Accepted papers will be published in a volume of the Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS) series by Springer Verlag. **** Important Dates Abstract Registration: September 25, 2011 Paper Submission: October 9, 2011 Notification of Decision: December 20, 2011 Camera Ready: January 8, 2012 Workshop: March 12, 2012 **** Program Chairs Antonio Pescapè University of Napoli, Federico II Xenofontas Dimitropoulos ETH Zurich Luca Salgarelli University of Brescia **** Local Arrangements Chair Philipp Svoboda TU Wien **** Program Committee Olivier Bonaventure, Université Catholique de Louvain Ernst Biersack, Eurecom Pere Barlet-Ros, Technical University of Catalunya Kenjiro Cho, IIJ Konstantina Papagiannaki, Telefonica Alberto Dainotti, University of Napoli Federico II Nick Feamster, Georgia Tech KC Claffy, CAIDA Pietro Michiardi, Eurecom Brian Trammell, ETH Zurich Georgios Lioudakis, National Technical University of Athens Felipe Huici, NEC Labs Europe Joseph Gasparakis, Intel Maurizio Dusi, NEC labs Europe Grenville Armitage, CAIA Wenke Lee, Georgia Tech Maria Papadopouli, FORTH Gianluca Iannaccone, Intel Labs Berkeley Marco Mellia, Politecnico di Torino Steve Uhlig, TU Berlin / T-Labs Yuval Shavitt, Tel Aviv University Dario Rossi, TELECOM ParisTech Fabio Ricciato, FTW and University of Salento Francesco Gringoli, University of Brescia Philippe Owezarski, CNRS Alessio Botta, University of Napoli Federico II Aiko Pras, University of Twente Michela Meo, Politecnico di Torino Louis Plissonneau, Orange Labs Pierre Borgnat, ENS Lyon Hyun-chul Kim, Seoul National University Georgios Smaragdakis, Deutsche Telekom Labs and TU Berlin Andreas Kind, IBM Research Marcin Pietrzyk, Swisscom -- ETH Zurich Dr. Xenofontas Dimitropoulos Lecturer& Senior Researcher Computer Engineering and Networks Laboratory (TIK) ETZ G95, Gloriastrasse 35, CH-8092 Zurich. http://www.fontas.net +41 44 632 7004 (phone) From Nina.Taft@technicolor.com Tue Sep 6 15:58:27 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DA11321F8FA6 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:58:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DgG6CEIGTY8Z for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:58:27 -0700 (PDT) Received: from na3sys009aog117.obsmtp.com (na3sys009aog117.obsmtp.com [74.125.149.242]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8D91921F8ED8 for ; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:58:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from INDYSEDGE01.am.thmulti.com ([157.254.234.137]) (using TLSv1) by na3sys009aob117.postini.com ([74.125.148.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKTmal9DG6wIjMpd3YCvijKZK1/uNibYRf@postini.com; Tue, 06 Sep 2011 16:00:14 PDT Received: from INDYSMAILHT01.am.thmulti.com (157.254.98.93) by INDYSEDGE01.am.thmulti.com (157.254.234.136) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.159.2; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:55:07 -0400 Received: from ladcsmailhc01.am.thmulti.com (10.18.109.26) by INDYSMAILHT01.am.thmulti.com (157.254.98.93) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 8.3.137.0; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 18:55:21 -0400 Received: from CAMASMBX01.am.thmulti.com ([10.15.1.71]) by ladcsmailhc01.am.thmulti.com ([::1]) with mapi; Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:55:20 -0700 From: Taft Nina To: "ippm@ietf.org" Date: Tue, 6 Sep 2011 15:55:18 -0700 Thread-Topic: Reminder: PAM Call For Papers: Abstract registration is Sept. 7th PDT, one week left for papers Thread-Index: Acxs6Ay6A496a5Y4Q2q+uMZpRCOuRw== Message-ID: <66D95796C49E1749A7B53FA8DF0A72AA177E6F63@CAMASMBX01.am.thmulti.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_66D95796C49E1749A7B53FA8DF0A72AA177E6F63CAMASMBX01amthm_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 23:39:25 -0700 Cc: Fabio ricciato Subject: [ippm] Reminder: PAM Call For Papers: Abstract registration is Sept. 7th PDT, one week left for papers X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Sep 2011 23:00:15 -0000 --_000_66D95796C49E1749A7B53FA8DF0A72AA177E6F63CAMASMBX01amthm_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Reminder: Abstract submission is tomorrow (September 7th) and paper submis= sion is Sept. 14th. See http://pam2012.ftw.at/cfp.shtml for details. Passive and Active Measurement (PAM) Conference March 13-14, 2012 Vienna, Austria Call for Papers The PAM conference has in the past focused on research and practical applic= ations of network measurement and analysis techniques. However this year PA= M is broadening its scope based upon numerous trends in this area. The scop= e of network measurements today goes well beyond the traditional Layer-3 an= d encompasses measurements in any type of networked, networked applications= , content distribution networks, online social networks, overlay networks, = and more. Measurement technology is needed at all layers of the stack: for = power profiling of hardware components, at the MAC/network/transport layers= , as well as up the stack for application profiling and even to collect use= r feedback. Measurements technologies are being designed for the digital ho= me, residential access networks, wireless and mobile access, enterprise, IS= P and data center networks. In recognition of these trends, PAM is encourag= ing submission on a broad set of topics. We aim to understand the role that= measurement techniques can play in networked environments and applications= , across different layers, and how they can serve as critical building bloc= ks for broader measurement needs. At the same time, PAM also continues with= its original goal, to expand the techniques, tools and practical uses of n= etwork measurement technology. PAM seeks to bring together both the researc= h and operation communities, and encourages submission of early stage resea= rch. Original papers are invited, but not limited to, the following topics: =A7 Passive and Active Measurement Tools: Techniques, Design and Experienc= e =A7 Characterization studies of network usage and networked applications =A7 Measurements of social networks, game networks and networked services = at large. =A7 Correlating measurements across multiple layers =A7 Combining measurements from a network and end-terminals =A7 Measurement oriented to End-user Perception and Quality of Experience =A7 Measurements for Security and Privacy =A7 Distributed and Inter-domain measurements =A7 Network and System Troubleshooting using Measurements =A7 Metrics and measurements of resilience and dependability =A7 Measurement technology for software-based routers =A7 Assessing Data Center Networks and Cloud Services =A7 Measurements in Home Networks =A7 Measurement Visualization =A7 Deployment and operation of Measurement Infrastructure =A7 New Measurement Initiatives =A7 Reassessing Previous Measurement Methodology and Results =A7 Performance Metrics and Traffic Analysis =A7 Measurement Data Management Important Dates =A7 Conference: 13-14th March, 2012 =A7 Abstract Registration: September 7, 2011 11:59pm (PDT) (September 8th = at 8:59am CEST) =A7 Paper Submission: September 14, 2011 11:59pm PDT (September 15, 8:59am= CEST) =A7 Notification of Decision: November 22, 2011 =A7 Camera Ready: December 22, 2011 --_000_66D95796C49E1749A7B53FA8DF0A72AA177E6F63CAMASMBX01amthm_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Reminder: Abstract submission is tomorro= w (September 7th)  and paper submission is Sept. 14th<= /sup>. See http://pam2012.ftw.at/cfp.shtml for details.

Passive and Active  Measurement (PAM) Con= ference

March 13-14, 2012 Vienna, Au= stria

 

Call for Papers

= The PAM conference has in the past focused on research and practical applic= ations of network measurement and analysis techniques. However this y= ear PAM is broadening its scope based upon numerous trends in this area. The scope of network measurements today goes well beyond the traditio= nal Layer-3 and encompasses measurements in any type of networked, networke= d applications, content distribution networks, online social networks, over= lay networks, and more. Measurement technology is needed at all layers of t= he stack: for power profiling of hardware components, at the MAC/network/tr= ansport layers, as well as up the stack for application profiling and even = to collect user feedback. Measurements technologies are being designed for = the digital home, residential access networks, wireless and mobile access, = enterprise, ISP and data center networks. In recognition of these trends, P= AM is encouraging submission on a broad set of topics. We aim to understand= the role that measurement techniques can play in networked environments an= d applications, across different layers, and how they can serve as critical= building blocks for broader measurement needs. At the same time, PAM also = continues with its original goal, to expand the techniques, tools and pract= ical uses of network measurement technology. PAM seeks to bring together bo= th the research and operation communities, and encourages submission of ear= ly stage research.

Original papers a= re invited, but not limited to, the following topics:

=A7  Passive and Active Measurement Tools: T= echniques, Design and Experience

=A7  Characterization studies of network usage and networked appli= cations

=A7  Measurement= s of social networks, game networks and networked services at large.

<= span style=3D'mso-list:Ignore'>=A7  Correlating measurements = across multiple layers

=A7  Combining measurements from a network and end-terminals

=A7&nb= sp; Measurement oriented to End-user= Perception and Quality of Experience

= =A7  Measurements for Security and Privacy =

=A7 = Distributed and Inter-domain measur= ements

=A7  Network and= System Troubleshooting using Measurements

=A7  Metrics and measurements of resilience and depen= dability

<= ![if !supportLists]>=A7  Measuremen= t technology for software-based routers

=A7  Assessing Data Center Networks and Cloud Services=

=A7  Measurements in Home Ne= tworks

=A7  Measurement = Visualization

=A7  Dep= loyment and operation of Measurement Infrastructure

<= p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:37.5pt;mso-margi= n-bottom-alt:auto;margin-left:177.0pt;text-align:justify;text-indent:-.25in= ;mso-list:l1 level1 lfo1;background:white'>=A7  New Measurement Initiatives

<= span style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#575757'>=A7&n= bsp; Reassessing Previous Measuremen= t Methodology and Results

=A7  Performance Metrics and Traffic Analysis

=A7  <= /span>Measurement Data Management

Important Dates

=A7  Conference: 13-14th = March, 2012

=A7  Abstract Registration: September 7, 2= 011 11:59pm (PDT) (September 8th at 8:59am CEST)

=A7Paper Submission: September 14, 2011 11:59pm PDT (September 15, 8:59am CEST)=

=A7  Notification of Decision: November 22, 2011

=A7  Ca= mera Ready: December 22, 2011

 

 

 

 

= --_000_66D95796C49E1749A7B53FA8DF0A72AA177E6F63CAMASMBX01amthm_-- From steve.baillargeon@ericsson.com Thu Sep 8 11:08:50 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D8A121F8B1A for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:08:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dHv8EDqvmZZa for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:08:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00BE221F8B18 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 11:08:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p88IA62G002571; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 13:10:42 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.158]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 14:10:15 -0400 From: Steve Baillargeon To: Henk Uijterwaal Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2011 14:10:13 -0400 Thread-Topic: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 Thread-Index: AcxnBNeiWoXua+VpRuGIrTE3xRdaLAHS17Dg Message-ID: <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> In-Reply-To: <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Sep 2011 18:08:50 -0000 Hi Henk I made some minor corrections to the draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-add= ed-octets. The latest version is 02. I think the new proposal I made in Quebec to combine the various capacity m= easurement methods into 3 optional modes (128, 256 and 512) was well receiv= ed by most people. As far as I know Al Morton is in agreement with its prin= ciples but he is the only person to opposite to it because of the IPR assoc= iated with mode 128. I agree that the general rule on disputed topics is that the Working Group = has to come to "rough consensus". Can you evaluate if we have rough consensus on the new proposal? Thank you Regards Steve =20 -----Original Message----- From: ippm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Hen= k Uijterwaal Sent: August-30-11 7:06 AM To: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Expiration impending: draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-valu= e-added-octets Steve, > We would like to start a WGLC in order to move it forward. > Any comments? Well, a WGLC is only appropriate if rough consensus about the document has = been reached and there is no need for further discussion. The WGLC is ther= e to catch the last remaining details. I don't think that this document is= in that stage. In Quebec, one of the conclusions was that we should define what problem we= are trying to solve with this draft (and similar). The chairs are prepari= ng a statement on that. Once we have agreed on the problem, we should go b= ack to solution space. This draft will be valuable input. Henk >=20 > -Steve >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: IETF Secretariat [mailto:ietf-secretariat-reply@ietf.org] > Sent: August-29-11 7:42 AM > To: Steve Baillargeon; Christofer Flinta; Andreas Johnsson A; Svante=20 > Ekelin > Subject: Expiration impending:=20 > draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets >=20 > The following draft will expire soon: >=20 > Filename: draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets > Title: TWAMP Value-Added Octets > State: I-D Exists > Expires: 2011-09-08 (in 1 week, 2 days)=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- There appears to have been a collective retreat from reality that day. (John Glanfield, on an engineering project= ) _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From henk@uijterwaal.nl Thu Sep 8 23:43:10 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ED6821F8B43 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:43:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.465 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.465 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id K8wE6PDxgnYr for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.30]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7551D21F8B42 for ; Thu, 8 Sep 2011 23:43:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geir.local (thuis.uijterwaal.nl [82.95.178.49]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-vbr10.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p896iTHG081943 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 9 Sep 2011 08:44:31 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from henk@uijterwaal.nl) Message-ID: <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 08:44:29 +0200 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20110902 Thunderbird/6.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Baillargeon References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 06:43:10 -0000 IPPM group, On 08/09/2011 20:10, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > I made some minor corrections to the > draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets. The latest version is 02. > > I think the new proposal I made in Quebec to combine the various capacity > measurement methods into 3 optional modes (128, 256 and 512) was well > received by most people. As far as I know Al Morton is in agreement with its > principles but he is the only person to opposite to it because of the IPR > associated with mode 128. > > I agree that the general rule on disputed topics is that the Working Group > has to come to "rough consensus". Can you evaluate if we have rough consensus > on the new proposal? If you contributed to the discussion in Quebec (or elsewhere), please read the draft and commment. Even a 1 line response like "I've read the draft and my issues have been addressed" or similar is extremely useful. Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There appears to have been a collective retreat from reality that day. (John Glanfield, on an engineering project) From steve.baillargeon@ericsson.com Fri Sep 9 03:03:47 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1258621F869C for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 03:03:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zuvxisER93cA for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 03:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2549A21F869E for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 03:03:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p89A3Sk0029451; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 05:05:36 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.158]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 06:04:50 -0400 From: Steve Baillargeon To: Henk Uijterwaal , "ippm@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 06:04:49 -0400 Thread-Topic: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 Thread-Index: Acxuu+9myViY9iZ4RoGBlnOmndF78AAG7cqw Message-ID: <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F44D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> In-Reply-To: <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 10:03:47 -0000 Hi The link to the proposal discussed in Quebec is here. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/81/slides/ippm-5.pdf -Steve =20 -----Original Message----- From: Henk Uijterwaal [mailto:henk@uijterwaal.nl]=20 Sent: September-09-11 2:44 AM To: Steve Baillargeon Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 IPPM group, On 08/09/2011 20:10, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > I made some minor corrections to the > draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets. The latest version is 02= . >=20 > I think the new proposal I made in Quebec to combine the various=20 > capacity measurement methods into 3 optional modes (128, 256 and 512)=20 > was well received by most people. As far as I know Al Morton is in=20 > agreement with its principles but he is the only person to opposite to=20 > it because of the IPR associated with mode 128. >=20 > I agree that the general rule on disputed topics is that the Working=20 > Group has to come to "rough consensus". Can you evaluate if we have=20 > rough consensus on the new proposal? If you contributed to the discussion in Quebec (or elsewhere), please read = the draft and commment. Even a 1 line response like "I've read the draft a= nd my issues have been addressed" or similar is extremely useful. Henk -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= --- There appears to have been a collective retreat from reality that day. (John Glanfield, on an engineering project= ) From acmorton@att.com Fri Sep 9 06:53:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78E1F21F8AE6 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 06:53:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.746 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.746 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Wow7JpxsioCg for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 06:53:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail119.messagelabs.com (mail119.messagelabs.com [216.82.241.195]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF77D21F8A7E for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 06:53:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-3.tower-119.messagelabs.com!1315576495!38344284!1 X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-StarScan-Version: 6.3.6; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 22215 invoked from network); 9 Sep 2011 13:54:55 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-3.tower-119.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 9 Sep 2011 13:54:55 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p89DtLv8025255 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:55:21 -0400 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p89DtHap025159 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:55:17 -0400 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p89DsorM026409 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:54:50 -0400 Received: from mailgw1.maillennium.att.com (dns.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p89Dslef026281 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 09:54:48 -0400 Message-Id: <201109091354.p89Dslef026281@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (dn135-16-251-71.dhcpn.ugn.att.com[135.16.251.71](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20110909135446gw100e4l7re>; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 13:54:46 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.16.251.71] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 09:55:35 -0400 To: Henk Uijterwaal , Steve Baillargeon From: Al Morton In-Reply-To: <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 13:53:02 -0000 Henk and Steve, Please see my comments in-line: At 02:44 AM 9/9/2011, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >On 08/09/2011 20:10, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > > I made some minor corrections to the > > draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets. The latest version is 02. Replacing RFC 1242/2544 Throughput with "datagram delivery rate" fixes a major conceptual error, so that's good. But there are no protocol modifications, and... > > > > I think the new proposal I made in Quebec to combine the various capacity > > measurement methods into 3 optional modes (128, 256 and 512) was well > > received by most people. As far as I know Al Morton is in > agreement with its > > principles but he is the only person to opposite to it because of the IPR > > associated with mode 128. that's not correct. Also, Yaakov gave his opinion that your slide proposal violated fundamental principles of TWAMP, IIRC. > > > > I agree that the general rule on disputed topics is that the Working Group > > has to come to "rough consensus". Can you evaluate if we have > rough consensus > > on the new proposal? > >If you contributed to the discussion in Quebec (or elsewhere), please read >the draft and commment. Even a 1 line response like "I've read the draft and >my issues have been addressed" or similar is extremely useful. > >Henk I read the draft, and comments in this thread: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg02634.html have not been addressed. In fact, reluctance to accept the session-reflector complexity/new formats as an issue prompted the development of our alternative proposal: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-morton-ippm-twamp-rate-00 which finally got Steve's attention. In case it's not clear, the slide proposal discussed in Quebec is not implemented in draft*value-added-octets-02, but that's fine because the proposal was not agreed. IMO, we now need to agree on the problem statement(s) for these new features. We also need to find ways to work together productively, where we are all carefully reading each other's messages and finding ways to compromise and address new measurement needs. regards to all, Al From steve.baillargeon@ericsson.com Fri Sep 9 10:26:22 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBC3221F855F for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 10:26:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yQUJqBreMN26 for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CE3621F855B for ; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 10:26:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p89HSDKw013666; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 12:28:15 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.158]) by eusaamw0711.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.178]) with mapi; Fri, 9 Sep 2011 13:27:07 -0400 From: Steve Baillargeon To: Al Morton Date: Fri, 9 Sep 2011 13:27:06 -0400 Thread-Topic: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 Thread-Index: Acxu+BMEqGkNAozaQy+b+cAykp+iVQAGr30w Message-ID: <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F76D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> <201109091354.p89DslNF026280@alpd052.aldc.att.com> In-Reply-To: <201109091354.p89DslNF026280@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Sep 2011 17:26:23 -0000 Hi Al Your proposal http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-morton-ippm-twamp-rate-00 is= actually breaking many protocol rules and this is why I oppose to it. It i= s adding more complexity on the system and the existing OWAMP is a better f= it. I think we should not forget the following blog: http://blog.dustintrammell.com/2008/11/17/how-not-to-write-a-protocol-speci= fication/ My proposal in Quebec is actually intended to find a compromise while addre= ssing capacity measurements in three possible TWAMP ways i.e. bi-directiona= l, forward only and reverse only with a clear seperation between the contro= l and data planes.=20 Yes I agree that we must find ways to work together productively and this i= s what I came prepared to do in Quebec. Let's try again but you have indica= ted you are not willing to work with us because of the IPR associated with = the TWAMP-value-added-octets draft. Is this still true?=20 -Steve -----Original Message----- From: Al Morton [mailto:acmorton@att.com]=20 Sent: September-09-11 9:56 AM To: Henk Uijterwaal; Steve Baillargeon Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 Henk and Steve, Please see my comments in-line: At 02:44 AM 9/9/2011, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: >On 08/09/2011 20:10, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > > I made some minor corrections to the=20 > > draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets. The latest version is = 02. Replacing RFC 1242/2544 Throughput with "datagram delivery rate" fixes a major conceptual error, so that's good. But there are no protocol m= odifications, and... > > > > I think the new proposal I made in Quebec to combine the various=20 > > capacity measurement methods into 3 optional modes (128, 256 and=20 > > 512) was well received by most people. As far as I know Al Morton is=20 > > in > agreement with its > > principles but he is the only person to opposite to it because of=20 > > the IPR associated with mode 128. that's not correct. Also, Yaakov gave his opinion that your slide proposal = violated fundamental principles of TWAMP, IIRC. > > > > I agree that the general rule on disputed topics is that the Working=20 > > Group has to come to "rough consensus". Can you evaluate if we have > rough consensus > > on the new proposal? > >If you contributed to the discussion in Quebec (or elsewhere), please=20 >read the draft and commment. Even a 1 line response like "I've read=20 >the draft and my issues have been addressed" or similar is extremely usefu= l. > >Henk I read the draft, and comments in this thread: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ippm/current/msg02634.html have not been addressed. In fact, reluctance to accept the session-reflecto= r complexity/new formats as an issue prompted the development of our altern= ative proposal: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-morton-ippm-twamp-rate-00 which finally got Steve's attention. In case it's not clear, the slide proposal discussed in Quebec is not imple= mented in draft*value-added-octets-02, but that's fine because the proposal= was not agreed. IMO, we now need to agree on the problem statement(s) for these new feature= s. We also need to find ways to work together productively, where we are al= l carefully reading each other's messages and finding ways to compromise an= d address new measurement needs. regards to all, Al From henk@uijterwaal.nl Thu Sep 22 01:13:00 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BF27A21F8BBE for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:13:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.47 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.47 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.034, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pZh8zg2-nc28 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:12:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.21]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB21A21F8B47 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 01:12:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geir.local (thuis.uijterwaal.nl [82.95.178.49]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-vbr1.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p8M8Eupu050180 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:14:56 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from henk@uijterwaal.nl) Message-ID: <4E7AEE7F.3020309@uijterwaal.nl> Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:14:55 +0200 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20110902 Thunderbird/6.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Steve Baillargeon References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> <201109091354.p89DslNF026280@alpd052.aldc.att.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F76D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F76D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Cc: Al Morton , "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:13:00 -0000 All, (Pretty much swamped with other things, and as a result well behind on IPPM work.) > I think > we should not forget the following blog: > http://blog.dustintrammell.com/2008/11/17/how-not-to-write-a-protocol-specification/ Well, he has a bit of a point, but I think he doesn't realize that TWAMP was developed after OWAMP and when OWAMP was written, nobody thought that we would need TWAMP in the future. It is also not at all clear that one will have to implement both in a single box. > My proposal in Quebec is actually intended to find a compromise while > addressing capacity measurements in three possible TWAMP ways i.e. > bi-directional, forward only and reverse only with a clear seperation between > the control and data planes. > > Yes I agree that we must find ways to work together productively and this is > what I came prepared to do in Quebec. Let's try again but you have indicated > you are not willing to work with us because of the IPR associated with the > TWAMP-value-added-octets draft. Is this still true? What I took away from the Quebec discussion, is that we agreed that we first have to agree what problem we want to solve _without_ looking at possible and perhaps already existing solutions. I think this has not happened, so I suggest that the people who feel strongly about this, do this. As far as I'm concerned, it does not have to be an ID, a mail on the list is fine as well (at least for now). Only when we agree on the problem, we should look at solutions. If one of the proposed solutions has IPR associated with it, then we have to know the conditions before selecting one. Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There appears to have been a collective retreat from reality that day. (John Glanfield, on an engineering project) From acmorton@att.com Thu Sep 22 05:19:38 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 743A721F8C80 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 05:19:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -105.406 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-105.406 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.390, BAYES_00=-2.599, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.803, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5zbHGEKNyRX3 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 05:19:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail120.messagelabs.com (mail120.messagelabs.com [216.82.250.83]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E837921F8C64 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 05:19:37 -0700 (PDT) X-Env-Sender: acmorton@att.com X-Msg-Ref: server-2.tower-120.messagelabs.com!1316694127!39581449!1 X-Originating-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-StarScan-Version: 6.3.6; banners=-,-,- X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 15345 invoked from network); 22 Sep 2011 12:22:08 -0000 Received: from sbcsmtp6.sbc.com (HELO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) (144.160.20.145) by server-2.tower-120.messagelabs.com with DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA encrypted SMTP; 22 Sep 2011 12:22:08 -0000 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8MCMYYw016238 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:22:34 -0400 Received: from alpd052.aldc.att.com (alpd052.aldc.att.com [130.8.42.31]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8MCMURr016136 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:22:30 -0400 Received: from aldc.att.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8MCM2Qw012482 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:22:02 -0400 Received: from dns.maillennium.att.com (mailgw1.maillennium.att.com [135.25.114.99]) by alpd052.aldc.att.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8MCLu1T012340 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:21:56 -0400 Message-Id: <201109221221.p8MCLu1T012340@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Received: from acmt.att.com (vpn-135-70-83-18.vpn.swst.att.com[135.70.83.18](misconfigured sender)) by maillennium.att.com (mailgw1) with SMTP id <20110922122145gw100e4l6re>; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:21:45 +0000 X-Originating-IP: [135.70.83.18] X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 08:22:44 -0400 To: Henk Uijterwaal , Steve Baillargeon From: Al Morton In-Reply-To: <4E7AEE7F.3020309@uijterwaal.nl> References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> <201109091354.p89DslNF026280@alpd052.aldc.att.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F76D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E7AEE7F.3020309@uijterwaal.nl> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:19:38 -0000 At 04:14 AM 9/22/2011, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: ... >At 01:27 PM 9/9/2011, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > > ... > > My proposal in Quebec is actually intended to find a compromise while > > addressing capacity measurements in three possible TWAMP ways i.e. > > bi-directional, forward only and reverse only with a clear > seperation between > > the control and data planes. > > > > Yes I agree that we must find ways to work together productively > and this is > > what I came prepared to do in Quebec. Let's try again but you > have indicated > > you are not willing to work with us because of the IPR associated with the > > TWAMP-value-added-octets draft. Is this still true? > >What I took away from the Quebec discussion, is that we agreed that we >first have to agree what problem we want to solve _without_ looking at >possible and perhaps already existing solutions. I think this has >not happened, so I suggest that the people who feel strongly about >this, do this. As far as I'm concerned, it does not have to be an >ID, a mail on the list is fine as well (at least for now). > >Only when we agree on the problem, we should look at solutions. If one >of the proposed solutions has IPR associated with it, then we have to >know the conditions before selecting one. > >Henk Good, thanks Henk. My previous reply to Steve's proposal (to adopt value-added-octets-02) still reflects my opinion: At 09:55 AM 9/9/2011, Al Morton wrote: ... >IMO, we now need to agree on the problem statement(s) for these >new features. We also need to find ways to work together productively, >where we are all carefully reading each other's messages >and finding ways to compromise and address new measurement needs. Pointing to solutions and IPR issues won't help write requirements. There have been lots of possibilities suggested for *WAMP this year. we need to sort through what the community really needs and agrees to work-on together in IPPM. regards, Al From samita.chakrabarti@ericsson.com Thu Sep 22 10:33:53 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C653521F8AFC for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:33:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.604 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.604 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.005, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zc2AeO2HN8AZ for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from imr4.ericy.com (imr4.ericy.com [198.24.6.9]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2C1C221F8C19 for ; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 10:33:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) by imr4.ericy.com (8.14.3/8.14.3/Debian-9.1ubuntu1) with ESMTP id p8MHZZtR014674; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:36:21 -0500 Received: from EUSAACMS0715.eamcs.ericsson.se ([169.254.1.165]) by eusaamw0712.eamcs.ericsson.se ([147.117.20.181]) with mapi; Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:36:13 -0400 From: Samita Chakrabarti To: Al Morton , Henk Uijterwaal , Steve Baillargeon Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 13:36:11 -0400 Thread-Topic: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 Thread-Index: Acx5IkvouQnaREwNRhmyY8ZfXji4lAAK1wCw Message-ID: <16D60F43CA0B724F8052D7E9323565D7243F4F57A4@EUSAACMS0715.eamcs.ericsson.se> References: <20110829114206.12880.31102.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183DD08FD@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E5CC400.6000205@uijterwaal.nl> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F181@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E69B5CD.7060707@uijterwaal.nl> <201109091354.p89DslNF026280@alpd052.aldc.att.com> <4383945B8C24AA4FBC33555BB7B829EF1183F3F76D@EUSAACMS0701.eamcs.ericsson.se> <4E7AEE7F.3020309@uijterwaal.nl> <201109221221.p8MCLu1T012340@alpd052.aldc.att.com> In-Reply-To: <201109221221.p8MCLu1T012340@alpd052.aldc.att.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "ippm@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 17:33:53 -0000 =20 Hi, Has any work been started discussing or putting down the requirements in a = short document? I'd be interested in participating such discussion as well. Thanks, -Samita -----Original Message----- From: ippm-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Al = Morton Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:23 AM To: Henk Uijterwaal; Steve Baillargeon Cc: ippm@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-baillargeon-ippm-twamp-value-added-octets-02 At 04:14 AM 9/22/2011, Henk Uijterwaal wrote: ... >At 01:27 PM 9/9/2011, Steve Baillargeon wrote: > > ... > > My proposal in Quebec is actually intended to find a compromise=20 > > while addressing capacity measurements in three possible TWAMP ways i.e= . > > bi-directional, forward only and reverse only with a clear > seperation between > > the control and data planes. > > > > Yes I agree that we must find ways to work together productively > and this is > > what I came prepared to do in Quebec. Let's try again but you > have indicated > > you are not willing to work with us because of the IPR associated=20 > > with the TWAMP-value-added-octets draft. Is this still true? > >What I took away from the Quebec discussion, is that we agreed that we=20 >first have to agree what problem we want to solve _without_ looking at >possible and perhaps already existing solutions. I think this has >not happened, so I suggest that the people who feel strongly about=20 >this, do this. As far as I'm concerned, it does not have to be an ID,=20 >a mail on the list is fine as well (at least for now). > >Only when we agree on the problem, we should look at solutions. If one=20 >of the proposed solutions has IPR associated with it, then we have to=20 >know the conditions before selecting one. > >Henk Good, thanks Henk. My previous reply to Steve's proposal (to adopt value-added-octets-02) still reflects my opinion: At 09:55 AM 9/9/2011, Al Morton wrote: ... >IMO, we now need to agree on the problem statement(s) for these new=20 >features. We also need to find ways to work together productively,=20 >where we are all carefully reading each other's messages and finding=20 >ways to compromise and address new measurement needs. Pointing to solutions and IPR issues won't help write requirements. There have been lots of possibilities suggested for *WAMP this year. we need to sort through what the community really needs and agrees to work-= on together in IPPM. regards, Al _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From henk@uijterwaal.nl Fri Sep 23 01:06:51 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B6C321F8A66 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:06:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.472 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.472 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.032, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id W8Nq7pOuqIZK for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:06:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.22]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6BF1B21F8A64 for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 01:06:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geir.local (thuis.uijterwaal.nl [82.95.178.49]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-vbr2.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p8N88qKW097573 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:08:52 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from henk@uijterwaal.nl) Message-ID: <4E7C3E93.8070606@uijterwaal.nl> Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:08:51 +0200 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20110902 Thunderbird/6.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IPPM WG X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: [ippm] No meeting in Taipei X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 08:06:51 -0000 IPPM group, Right now, we do not see that we have sufficient items to warrant a face-2-face meeting at the next IETF. If you disagree, please contact the chairs before Monday, 9:00 GMT with 1 or more topics that need discussion. Matt & Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There appears to have been a collective retreat from reality that day. (John Glanfield, on an engineering project) From pescape@unina.it Sun Sep 25 09:38:46 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30DEA21F85A8 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 09:38:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.881 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.881 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i6s8Fy1B+og0 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 09:38:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1.unina.it (smtp1.unina.it [192.132.34.61]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2729721F8531 for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 09:38:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.1.2] (host10-143-dynamic.238-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it [95.238.143.10] (may be forged)) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp1.unina.it (8.14.4/8.14.4) with ESMTP id p8PGeg9Z004094 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:41:23 +0200 From: "Antonio Pescape'" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 18:41:28 +0200 Message-Id: <59B4486B-2A09-490F-86E9-4AB680F3EC1E@unina.it> To: ippm@ietf.org Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1084) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1084) Subject: [ippm] TMA 2012 - Extended Deadlines X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Sep 2011 16:38:46 -0000 [Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP] -------------------------------- TMA 2012 --- Extended Deadlines: Due to many requests, abstract = registration deadline is extended to October 7, 2011 and paper = submission to October 20, 2011 (Firm) -------------------------------- 4th COST TMA International Workshop on Traffic Monitoring and Analysis Vienna, Austria, March 12, 2012 Co-located with Passive and Active Measurement (PAM) Conference 2012 http://tma2012.ftw.at/TMA/index.html After three successful editions of the TMA Workshop organized by the = Traffic Monitoring and Analysis (TMA) COST Action, we are excited to = announce the 4th edition that will be held in Vienna (Austria), = co-located with the Passive and Active Measurement Conference. **** Scope of the Workshop We are soliciting network-measurement papers with an emphasis on = experimental work that relate to the following topics: Traffic analysis, characterization, and classification New and improved measurement and monitoring methods and techniques Measurement-based applications Measurement-based network management Large scale monitoring and measurement Validation and benchmarking of measurement tools Measurement-based experiments: repeatability tests, data sharing, = collaborative platforms Internet topologies Bandwidth estimation Software tools for analyzing and visualizing high-volume = Internet-related datasets Distributed monitoring architectures Privacy-preserving network measurement and analysis Inter-domain and intra-domain routing Anomaly detection Measurement-related to data centers and cloud-based services Measurement-related to Virtualized systems Home networks measurements **** Paper Submission Submissions must not exceed 14 pages (8.5=94x11=94), including figures, = tables, and references, using the LNCS format. We recommend using the = LNCS users' guide to format your paper. Papers that exceed the 14 pages = limitation will not be reviewed. Accepted papers will be published in a = volume of the Lecture Notes in Computer Science (LNCS) series by = Springer Verlag. **** Important Dates -- NEW -- Abstract Registration: October 7, 2011 Paper Submission: October 20, 2011 Notification of Decision: December 20, 2011 Camera Ready: January 8, 2012 Workshop: March 12, 2012 **** Program Chairs Antonio Pescap=E8, University of Napoli, Federico II Xenofontas Dimitropoulos, ETH Zurich Luca Salgarelli, University of Brescia **** Local Arrangements Chair Philipp Svoboda, TU Wien **** Program Committee Olivier Bonaventure, Universit=E9 Catholique de Louvain Ernst Biersack, Eurecom Pere Barlet-Ros, Technical University of Catalunya Kenjiro Cho, IIJ Konstantina Papagiannaki, Telefonica Alberto Dainotti, University of Napoli Federico II Nick Feamster, Georgia Tech KC Claffy, CAIDA Pietro Michiardi, Eurecom Brian Trammell, ETH Zurich Georgios Lioudakis, National Technical University of Athens Felipe Huici, NEC Labs Europe Joseph Gasparakis, Intel Maurizio Dusi, NEC labs Europe Grenville Armitage, CAIA Wenke Lee, Georgia Tech Maria Papadopouli, FORTH Gianluca Iannaccone, Intel Labs Berkeley Marco Mellia, Politecnico di Torino Steve Uhlig, TU Berlin / T-Labs Yuval Shavitt, Tel Aviv University Dario Rossi, TELECOM ParisTech Fabio Ricciato, FTW and University of Salento Francesco Gringoli, University of Brescia Philippe Owezarski, CNRS Alessio Botta, University of Napoli Federico II Aiko Pras, University of Twente Michela Meo, Politecnico di Torino Louis Plissonneau, Orange Labs Pierre Borgnat, ENS Lyon Hyun-chul Kim, Seoul National University Georgios Smaragdakis, Deutsche Telekom Labs and TU Berlin Andreas Kind, IBM Research Marcin Pietrzyk, Swisscom ------------------------------------------------------------- Antonio Pescape' Dipartimento di Informatica e Sistemistica University of Napoli ''Federico II'' Via Claudio, 21 - 80125, Napoli (Italy) [Room n. 3.10] tel. +39 081 7683856 - fax +39 081 7683816 e-mail : pescape@unina.it (or pescape@ieee.org) Personal web-page: http://wpage.unina.it/pescape Teaching web-site (in Italian): = http://www.docenti.unina.it/antonio.pescape From henk@uijterwaal.nl Mon Sep 26 01:46:02 2011 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 76C3321F8B5E for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:46:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_NL=0.55, HOST_EQ_NL=1.545] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tXckp4P-E3ot for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:46:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl [194.109.24.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46CAF21F8B5A for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 01:46:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from geir.local (thuis.uijterwaal.nl [82.95.178.49]) (authenticated bits=0) by smtp-vbr13.xs4all.nl (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id p8Q8mBKV066121 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:48:11 +0200 (CEST) (envelope-from henk@uijterwaal.nl) Message-ID: <4E803C4B.3030007@uijterwaal.nl> Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 10:48:11 +0200 From: Henk Uijterwaal User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:6.0.2) Gecko/20110902 Thunderbird/6.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: IETF IPPM WG References: <4E7C3E93.8070606@uijterwaal.nl> In-Reply-To: <4E7C3E93.8070606@uijterwaal.nl> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.3.1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Virus-Scanned: by XS4ALL Virus Scanner Subject: Re: [ippm] No meeting in Taipei X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Sep 2011 08:46:02 -0000 IPPM group, > Right now, we do not see that we have sufficient items to warrant a > face-2-face meeting at the next IETF. If you disagree, please contact > the chairs before Monday, 9:00 GMT with 1 or more topics that need > discussion. No requests were received so we will not ask for a slot in Taipei. Of course, people are more than welcome to discuss things on the mailing list or in the hallways in Taipei. Henk -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Henk Uijterwaal Email: henk(at)uijterwaal.nl http://www.uijterwaal.nl Phone: +31.6.55861746 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ There appears to have been a collective retreat from reality that day. (John Glanfield, on an engineering project)