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Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-08.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional Extensions
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Xiao Min
                          Henrik Nydell
                          Richard Foote
                          Adi Masputra
                          Ernesto Ruffini
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-08.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2020-08-04

Abstract:
   This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active
   Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enable measurement of performance
   metrics.  The document also defines a STAMP Test Session Identifier
   and thus updates RFC 8762.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-08
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-08

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-08


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Questions about draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
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Subject: [ippm] Questions about draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
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Dear authors,

This is Yali. After reading, I have the following questions interested in.

First, as Loopback mode allows an IOAM encapsulating node to receive per-ho=
p data about both the forward and the return path, so is it co-routed bidir=
ectional path?

Second, how does each return path from transit node and destination nodes t=
owards the encapsulation node be determined? And are these return paths fro=
m each transit node towards the encapsulation node the same?

Third, in the Loopback mode, as each transit nodes along the forward path w=
ill create a copy of the received packet and send it back to the source of =
the packet, these are a large amount of redundant tracing data recorded at =
the same transit node that packet traverse.

In addition, in draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-00<https://datatracker=
.ietf.org/doc/draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions/> , we propose an altern=
ative way to realize active measurement with IOAM Trace Option. In this dra=
ft, a new IOAM Tracing Data TLV is extended to STAMP, which is used for rec=
ording the IOAM tracing data of each transit node along the forward path th=
at STAMP sender test packets traverse. Similarly, we could insert  IOAM Tra=
ce Option in the reflector test packets to record the IOAM tracing data abo=
ut the reverse path. So that the STAMP session-sender can receive per-hop I=
OAM tracing data about both the forward and the backward path. Any comments=
 and inputs for the new draft are very welcome.
Waiting forward to your response.
Thanks,
Yali



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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Dear authors,<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">This is Yali. After=
 reading, I have the following questions interested in.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">First, as Loopback =
mode allows an IOAM encapsulating node to receive per-hop data about both t=
he forward and the return path, so is it co-routed bidirectional path?<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Second, how does ea=
ch return path from transit node and destination nodes towards the encapsul=
ation node be determined? And are these return paths from each transit node=
 towards the encapsulation node the
 same?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt">Third, in the Loopb=
ack mode, as each transit nodes along the forward path will create a copy o=
f the received packet and send it back to the source of the packet, these a=
re a large amount of redundant tracing
 data recorded at the same transit node that packet traverse. <o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.0pt">In addition, in
<span style=3D"color:#222222"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions/"><span style=3D"color:#271673">draft-w=
ang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-00</span></a> , we propose an alternative way=
 to realize active measurement with IOAM
 Trace Option. In this draft, </span>a new IOAM Tracing Data TLV is extende=
d to STAMP, which is used for recording the IOAM tracing data of each trans=
it node along the forward path that STAMP sender test packets traverse. Sim=
ilarly, we could insert &nbsp;IOAM Trace
 Option in the reflector test packets to record the IOAM tracing data about=
 the reverse path. So that the STAMP session-sender can receive per-hop IOA=
M tracing data about both the forward and the backward path. Any comments a=
nd inputs for the new draft are
 very welcome.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.0pt">Waiting forward to your response.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:12.0pt">Yali<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:15.75pt"><span style=3D"font-=
size:11.5pt;color:#222222"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
span></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Subject: [ippm] Fwd: [108all] Final reminder: IETF 108 meeting survey
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Please take the IETF 108 survey to provide feedback on the meeting!

Best,
Tommy

> Begin forwarded message:
>=20
> From: IETF Executive Director <exec-director@ietf.org>
> Subject: [108all] Final reminder: IETF 108 meeting survey
> Date: August 5, 2020 at 3:30:16 AM PDT
> To: 108all@ietf.org
>=20
> Thank you very much to the ~230 people who have filled in the IETF 108 =
meeting survey as this data is crucial to helping us plan future =
meetings.  We could still use another 70 or so responses and so this is =
a final reminder to please help us by taking a few minutes to complete =
the survey:
>=20
> 		https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/T3SL7JF
>=20
> Thanks in advance
>=20
> --=20
> Jay Daley
> IETF Executive Director
> exec-director@ietf.org
>=20
> --=20
> 108all mailing list
> 108all@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/108all


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class=3D"">Please take the IETF 108 survey to provide feedback on the =
meeting!<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Best,</div><div class=3D"">Tommy<br class=3D""><div><br =
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</b></span><span style=3D"font-family: -webkit-system-font, Helvetica =
Neue, Helvetica, sans-serif;" class=3D""><b class=3D"">[108all] Final =
reminder: IETF 108 meeting survey</b><br class=3D""></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-right: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; =
margin-left: 0px;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-family: =
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Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.

        Title           : In-situ OAM Direct Exporting
        Authors         : Haoyu Song
                          Barak Gafni
                          Tianran Zhou
                          Zhenbin Li
                          Frank Brockners
                          Shwetha Bhandari
                          Ramesh Sivakolundu
                          Tal Mizrahi
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01.txt
	Pages           : 10
	Date            : 2020-08-05

Abstract:
   In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used
   for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information.
   Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data
   packets while they traverse the network.  This document introduces a
   new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is
   used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported without being
   pushed into in-flight data packets.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:24:43 +0300
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--000000000000f186da05ac2f8b34
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"

Hi,

Version 01 was posted to avoid expiration. No changes since version 00.

Cheers,
Tal.

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:22 AM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export
> Revision:       01
> Title:          In-situ OAM Direct Exporting
> Document date:  2020-08-05
> Group:          ippm
> Pages:          10
> URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01.txt
> Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/
> Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01
> Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export
> Diff:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01
>
> Abstract:
>    In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used
>    for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information.
>    Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data
>    packets while they traverse the network.  This document introduces a
>    new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is
>    used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported without being
>    pushed into in-flight data packets.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
>

--000000000000f186da05ac2f8b34
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi,</div><div><br></div><div>Version 01 was posted to=
 avoid expiration. No changes since version 00.</div><div><br></div><div>Ch=
eers,</div><div>Tal.</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" c=
lass=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:22 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:in=
ternet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><b=
lockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-le=
ft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-e=
xport<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A001<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ OAM Direct Exporting<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-08-05<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 10<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01.txt" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ipp=
m-ioam-direct-export-01.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D=
"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-expor=
t/</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"=
_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-e=
xport</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
 target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-ioam=
-direct-export-01</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is =
used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0for recording and collecting operational and telemetry informa=
tion.<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into dat=
a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0packets while they traverse the network.=C2=A0 This document i=
ntroduces a<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, wh=
ich is<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported withou=
t being<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pushed into in-flight data packets.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000f186da05ac2f8b34--


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From: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:34:13 +0300
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To: "Brian Trammell (IETF)" <ietf@trammell.ch>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export comments on security
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Hi Brian,

Many thanks for the comments.


On Fri, Jul 31, 2020 at 7:07 PM Brian Trammell (IETF) <ietf@trammell.ch> wr=
ote:
>
> Greetings,
>
> As promised in today's meeting, I had a look at draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export with an eye toward its security properties.
>
> The security considerations section is a good start, but I still have the=
 following issues with it:
>
> (1) In order to mitigate the attacks described above, it should be
>     possible for IOAM-enabled devices to limit the exported IOAM data to
>     a configurable rate.
>
> I'd like this to be a MUST, even though that's meaningless; SHOULD would =
be better than should.
>
> Rate limiting is one way to mitigate damage. There are others, and this t=
ext should point at some of them (e.g. only honoring DE on packets with cer=
tain configurable properties to require spoofing or injection to be more ta=
rgeted, only keeping state for a certain number of flows), since relying on=
ly on rate limits essentially completes the DoS as a DoS defense. Something=
 like "since devices handling DE and performing data export in response to =
a DE signal cannot authenticate that signal, these devices should be coded =
and tested defensively; i.e., as if they were on the open Internet without =
any perimeter protection".
>

That makes sense, and we will update the text along these lines.

>
> (2) IOAM is assumed to be deployed in a restricted administrative domain,
>     thus limiting the scope of the threats above and their affect.
>
> I understand the architecture; note this will get pushback both in SECDIR=
 and in IETF last call, as the idea of restricted administrative domains an=
d the "hard perimeter/squishy middle" security model that comes with it is =
falling out of favor. See my comment above.
>

I wonder what is the best way to tackle this. We have similar text in
the IOAM data draft, and I guess this pushback will pop up in the IESG
review of the data draft.

>
> Otherwise I think this is ready as it can be for security review.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Brian


Cheers,
Tal.


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From: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 09:44:51 +0300
Message-ID: <CABUE3X=QwGmozKR5pzm6VPw1jtVy9WZBYAT4PqvdbC2wsR490w@mail.gmail.com>
To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Questions about draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
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Hi Yali,

Thanks for the comments.


On Wed, Aug 5, 2020 at 10:09 AM wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Dear authors,
>
>
>
> This is Yali. After reading, I have the following questions interested in=
.
>
>
>
> First, as Loopback mode allows an IOAM encapsulating node to receive per-=
hop data about both the forward and the return path, so is it co-routed bid=
irectional path?
>

The loopback reverse path functionality is an open issue that we
discussed in the IETF meeting last week. This point in the draft is
expected to undergo changes.
As discussed, IOAM data insertion on the reverse path will be removed
from the draft.

>
>
> Second, how does each return path from transit node and destination nodes=
 towards the encapsulation node be determined? And are these return paths f=
rom each transit node towards the encapsulation node the same?
>

Following the point above, there is no specific requirement about the
reverse path, other than the fact that it is assumed that a reverse
path exists. It does not have to be a bidirectional path.

>
>
> Third, in the Loopback mode, as each transit nodes along the forward path=
 will create a copy of the received packet and send it back to the source o=
f the packet, these are a large amount of redundant tracing data recorded a=
t the same transit node that packet traverse.
>

Right. Loopback is a bit similar to Traceroute in the sense that each
transit node responds to the sender, but different from Traceroute in
the sense that a single packet triggers response from all the transit
nodes. The performance and security aspects of this amplification are
discussed in the draft (Section 7 and Section 8).

>
>
> In addition, in draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-00 , we propose an a=
lternative way to realize active measurement with IOAM Trace Option. In thi=
s draft, a new IOAM Tracing Data TLV is extended to STAMP, which is used fo=
r recording the IOAM tracing data of each transit node along the forward pa=
th that STAMP sender test packets traverse. Similarly, we could insert  IOA=
M Trace Option in the reflector test packets to record the IOAM tracing dat=
a about the reverse path. So that the STAMP session-sender can receive per-=
hop IOAM tracing data about both the forward and the backward path. Any com=
ments and inputs for the new draft are very welcome.
>
> Waiting forward to your response.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Yali
>
>

Cheers,
Tal.


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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>, "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>, ippm-chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" <draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 6 Aug 2020 10:11:31 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmXCzx4dVU8L75Fy4dbb7jHVFnBOHasPQu25kvOOC-DE=w@mail.gmail.com>
To: tom petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>
Cc: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>,  "Srihari Raghavan (srihari)" <srihari=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>, ippm-chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>,  "draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" <draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang
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Hi Tom,
thank you for your helpful comments on the SFC document. Would you kindly
send your comments to the SFC WG? I don't recall the WGLC on PoT being
closed.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:25 AM tom petch <ietfa@btconnect.com> wrote:

> From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> Sent: 13 July 2020 20:37
>
> Hi Tom, et al.,
> I believe that SFC WG has adopted draft-brokners-proof-of-transit<
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-brockners-proof-of-transit/> and
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit is in WG LC. The datatracker reflects tha=
t.
> Updating the reference should be easy.
> Hope that note helps to resolve one small issue.
>
> <tp>
> Greg
> Thanks for the info.  I had a look at
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06
> and from a YANG point of view it looks like it needs some work - I am
> surprised that is in WGLC.
> Look for example at prefix (not invalid but not a good choice), yang
> version ,  contacts, copyright date, reference '' , IANA (REQUIRED),
> security Boilerplate and such like.
>
> The IPPM draft is in much better shape and it has yet to be adopted!
>
> Tom Petch,
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:26 AM tom petch <ietfa@btconnect.com<mailto:
> ietfa@btconnect.com>> wrote:
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com<mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>=
>
> Sent: 08 July 2020 13:20
> To: tom petch; Srihari Raghavan (srihari); IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org
> <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>); ippm-chairs
> Cc: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org<mailto:
> draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang
>
> Hi Tom,
>
> Yeah, I now understand.
> I am awake. Come on, more comments please. :-)
>
> <tp>
> Eee that was quick:-)  a little something for the weekend.
>
> I think that all the I-D that you have added as reference should be
> Normative.
>
> A recent YANG doctor review said that all feature should also have a
> reference which seems right.
>
> I was surprised that Frank's e-mail address was fbrockne@ but that looks
> consistent - perhaps Cisco limit identifiers to eight characters (Passwor=
ds
> too?)
>
> brockners proof of transit has expired and gone from the repository -
> refresh before the window closes for the IETF108 (Monday?) would be good
>
> I also want a reference for incremental so that  I can look up why
> 4.000.000.000 octet are needed for it!
>
> I note that the I-D has four author, YANG only two - not wrong, just
> noteworthy
>
> POT needs expanding on first use be it pot or POT
>
> Tom Petch
>
>
> Thanks,
> Tianran
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tom petch [mailto:ietfa@btconnect.com<mailto:ietfa@btconnect.com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 7:42 PM
> To: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com<mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>>;
> Srihari Raghavan (srihari) <srihari=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mailto:
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org<mailto:
> ippm@ietf.org>) <ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>>; ippm-chairs <
> ippm-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org>>
> Cc: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org<mailto:
> draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang
>
> From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com<mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>=
>
> Sent: 08 July 2020 11:00
>
> Tom,
>
> Thank you very much for your review and comments. I will address your
> comments in next version soon.
> But still I am not clear about the following two comments:
>
> 1. "There are a number of admin type things that need fixing in this I-D
> as and when it is adopted."
> What's this exactly mean. Could you please give me more hints?
>
> <tp> See the rest of the e-mail:-)  I mean boiler plate, references, IANA=
,
> Security, Version, Copyright and so on as opposed to the more technical
> details such as why a leaf is int32 octet?  Why octet and why might there
> be 4.000.000.000 of them? for which I need a reference for the data
> structures and hoped that such would be forthcoming.  I tend to make admi=
n
> comments first, to see if the authors are awake:-), and then get more
> technical later, a pattern that you may have seen from me before.
>
> 2. " Why is IPv6 the only defined protocol as an identity?"
> We are going to include the working group adopted transport protocols for
> IOAM. IPv6 is one. Yes we may need to add some more.
> What's your suggestion on this?
> <tp>
> You mention others in the text of the I-D so I was expecting them all to
> be there or an explanation as to why they are not there.  I know of none
> other than the ones you mention.
>
> Tom Petch
>
> Thanks,
> Tianran
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: tom petch [mailto:ietfa@btconnect.com<mailto:ietfa@btconnect.com>]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:38 AM
> To: Srihari Raghavan (srihari) <srihari=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org<mail=
to:
> 40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>; Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com<mailto=
:
> zhoutianran@huawei.com>>; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.or=
g>)
> <ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>>; ippm-chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org
> <mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org>>
> Cc: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org<mailto:
> draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang
>
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org>> on
> behalf of Srihari Raghavan (srihari) <srihari=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or=
g
> <mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>>
> Sent: 07 July 2020 09:13
>
> <tp>
> There are a number of admin type things that need fixing in this I-D as
> and when it is adopted.
>
> The module has zero references; they are required for any import and are
> needed for many of the nodes if they are to be understood.
>
> YANG tree diagrams are defined in RFC8340
>
> Requirements is out of date
>
> YANG module lacks copyright
>
> Why is IPv6 the only defined protocol as an  identity?
>
> Tom Petch
>
>
>
> Hi all
>
> As a co-author of the IOAM yang model and implementor of the IOAM concept=
,
> would like to support and request the WG adoption of the data model draft
> as it adds value to the IOAM standardization and fills an important need
> for a common data model for all the five IOAM options.
>
> Thanks
> Srihari
>
> From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com<mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>=
>
> Date: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 at 6:43 AM
> To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>)" <ippm@ietf.org
> <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>>, ippm-chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:
> ippm-chairs@ietf.org>>
> Cc: "draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org<mailto:
> draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org>" <
> draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org<mailto:
> draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org>>
> Subject: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang Resent
> from: <alias-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org>> Resent to: =
<
> zhoutianran@huawei.com<mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com>>, <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com<mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>>, <
> fbrockne@cisco.com<mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com>>, <srihari@cisco.com<mailto=
:
> srihari@cisco.com>> Resent date: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 at 6:43 AM
>
> Correct the title and resend =E2=98=BA
>
>
> Hi IPPM WG and the Chairs,
>
> We would like to request the WG adoption for the IOAM YANG data model as
> follows:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang/
>
> This was presented 101 and 102. There were great comments from Greg Mirsk=
y
> and Reshad Rahman on the model structure. Thanks.
>
> Then the following revision keeps aligning with the IOAM data draft and
> IOAM-DEX draft.
>
> As the IOAM data get mature, I think it=E2=80=99s the right get the YANG =
model
> adopted, so that we can implement the system.
>
> Thanks,
> Tianran
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>

--00000000000015574705ac3895ae
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tom,<div>thank you for your helpful comments on the SFC=
 document. Would you kindly send your comments to the SFC WG? I don&#39;t r=
ecall the WGLC on PoT being closed.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div>=
<div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 6, 2020 at 9:25 AM tom petch &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ietfa@btconnect.com">ietfa@btconnect.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><block=
quote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1=
px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">From: Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</=
a>&gt;<br>
Sent: 13 July 2020 20:37<br>
<br>
Hi Tom, et al.,<br>
I believe that SFC WG has adopted draft-brokners-proof-of-transit&lt;<a hre=
f=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-brockners-proof-of-transit/" re=
l=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-b=
rockners-proof-of-transit/</a>&gt; and draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit is i=
n WG LC. The datatracker reflects that. Updating the reference should be ea=
sy.<br>
Hope that note helps to resolve one small issue.<br>
<br>
&lt;tp&gt;<br>
Greg<br>
Thanks for the info.=C2=A0 I had a look at <br>
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06<br>
and from a YANG point of view it looks like it needs some work - I am surpr=
ised that is in WGLC.<br>
Look for example at prefix (not invalid but not a good choice), yang versio=
n ,=C2=A0 contacts, copyright date, reference &#39;&#39; , IANA (REQUIRED),=
 security Boilerplate and such like.<br>
<br>
The IPPM draft is in much better shape and it has yet to be adopted!<br>
<br>
Tom Petch,<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jul 10, 2020 at 9:26 AM tom petch &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietfa@btcon=
nect.com" target=3D"_blank">ietfa@btconnect.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ietfa@btconnect.com" target=3D"_blank">ietfa@btconnect.com</a>&gt;&gt;=
 wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@=
huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Sent: 08 July 2020 13:20<br>
To: tom petch; Srihari Raghavan (srihari); IETF IPPM WG (<a href=3D"mailto:=
ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;); ippm-chairs<br=
>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dr=
aft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: RE: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang<br>
<br>
Hi Tom,<br>
<br>
Yeah, I now understand.<br>
I am awake. Come on, more comments please. :-)<br>
<br>
&lt;tp&gt;<br>
Eee that was quick:-)=C2=A0 a little something for the weekend.<br>
<br>
I think that all the I-D that you have added as reference should be Normati=
ve.<br>
<br>
A recent YANG doctor review said that all feature should also have a refere=
nce which seems right.<br>
<br>
I was surprised that Frank&#39;s e-mail address was fbrockne@ but that look=
s consistent - perhaps Cisco limit identifiers to eight characters (Passwor=
ds too?)<br>
<br>
brockners proof of transit has expired and gone from the repository - refre=
sh before the window closes for the IETF108 (Monday?) would be good<br>
<br>
I also want a reference for incremental so that=C2=A0 I can look up why 4.0=
00.000.000 octet are needed for it!<br>
<br>
I note that the I-D has four author, YANG only two - not wrong, just notewo=
rthy<br>
<br>
POT needs expanding on first use be it pot or POT<br>
<br>
Tom Petch<br>
<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Tianran<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: tom petch [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ietfa@btconnect.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">ietfa@btconnect.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ietfa@btconnect.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">ietfa@btconnect.com</a>&gt;]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 7:42 PM<br>
To: Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@hu=
awei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;; Srihari Rag=
havan (srihari) &lt;srihari=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mail=
to:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org=
</a>&gt;&gt;; IETF IPPM WG (<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;; ippm-chairs &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dr=
aft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang<br>
<br>
From: Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@=
huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Sent: 08 July 2020 11:00<br>
<br>
Tom,<br>
<br>
Thank you very much for your review and comments. I will address your comme=
nts in next version soon.<br>
But still I am not clear about the following two comments:<br>
<br>
1. &quot;There are a number of admin type things that need fixing in this I=
-D as and when it is adopted.&quot;<br>
What&#39;s this exactly mean. Could you please give me more hints?<br>
<br>
&lt;tp&gt; See the rest of the e-mail:-)=C2=A0 I mean boiler plate, referen=
ces, IANA, Security, Version, Copyright and so on as opposed to the more te=
chnical details such as why a leaf is int32 octet?=C2=A0 Why octet and why =
might there be 4.000.000.000 of them? for which I need a reference for the =
data structures and hoped that such would be forthcoming.=C2=A0 I tend to m=
ake admin comments first, to see if the authors are awake:-), and then get =
more technical later, a pattern that you may have seen from me before.<br>
<br>
2. &quot; Why is IPv6 the only defined protocol as an identity?&quot;<br>
We are going to include the working group adopted transport protocols for I=
OAM. IPv6 is one. Yes we may need to add some more.<br>
What&#39;s your suggestion on this?<br>
&lt;tp&gt;<br>
You mention others in the text of the I-D so I was expecting them all to be=
 there or an explanation as to why they are not there.=C2=A0 I know of none=
 other than the ones you mention.<br>
<br>
Tom Petch<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Tianran<br>
<br>
-----Original Message-----<br>
From: tom petch [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ietfa@btconnect.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">ietfa@btconnect.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ietfa@btconnect.c=
om" target=3D"_blank">ietfa@btconnect.com</a>&gt;]<br>
Sent: Wednesday, July 8, 2020 12:38 AM<br>
To: Srihari Raghavan (srihari) &lt;srihari=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@=
dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:=
<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com=
@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;; Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran=
@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com=
</a>&gt;&gt;; IETF IPPM WG (<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"=
_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;; ippm-chairs &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailt=
o:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@iet=
f.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D=
"_blank">draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=
=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">dr=
aft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
Subject: Re: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
________________________________________<br>
From: ippm &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i=
ppm-bounces@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org"=
 target=3D"_blank">ippm-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt; on behalf of Srihari R=
aghavan (srihari) &lt;srihari=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.o=
rg</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Sent: 07 July 2020 09:13<br>
<br>
&lt;tp&gt;<br>
There are a number of admin type things that need fixing in this I-D as and=
 when it is adopted.<br>
<br>
The module has zero references; they are required for any import and are ne=
eded for many of the nodes if they are to be understood.<br>
<br>
YANG tree diagrams are defined in RFC8340<br>
<br>
Requirements is out of date<br>
<br>
YANG module lacks copyright<br>
<br>
Why is IPv6 the only defined protocol as an=C2=A0 identity?<br>
<br>
Tom Petch<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi all<br>
<br>
As a co-author of the IOAM yang model and implementor of the IOAM concept, =
would like to support and request the WG adoption of the data model draft a=
s it adds value to the IOAM standardization and fills an important need for=
 a common data model for all the five IOAM options.<br>
<br>
Thanks<br>
Srihari<br>
<br>
From: Tianran Zhou &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@=
huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Date: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 at 6:43 AM<br>
To: &quot;IETF IPPM WG (<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;)&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;, ippm-chairs &lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>&lt;mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@ie=
tf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Cc: &quot;<a href=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a =
href=3D"mailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&gt;&quot; &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-z=
hou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:draft-z=
hou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-zhou-ippm-ioam=
-yang.authors@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt;<br>
Subject: request for the wg adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang Resent f=
rom: &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">alias-=
bounces@ietf.org</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:alias-bounces@ietf.org" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">alias-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;&gt; Resent to: &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">zhoutianran@huawei.com=
</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:zhoutianran@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">=
zhoutianran@huawei.com</a>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@=
futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&lt;mail=
to:<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">jame=
s.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;&gt;, &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisc=
o.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto=
:fbrockne@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt;, &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:srihari@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">srihari@cisco.com</a=
>&lt;mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:srihari@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">srihari@=
cisco.com</a>&gt;&gt; Resent date: Tuesday, 7 July 2020 at 6:43 AM<br>
<br>
Correct the title and resend =E2=98=BA<br>
<br>
<br>
Hi IPPM WG and the Chairs,<br>
<br>
We would like to request the WG adoption for the IOAM YANG data model as fo=
llows:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang/" rel=
=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zh=
ou-ippm-ioam-yang/</a><br>
<br>
This was presented 101 and 102. There were great comments from Greg Mirsky =
and Reshad Rahman on the model structure. Thanks.<br>
<br>
Then the following revision keeps aligning with the IOAM data draft and IOA=
M-DEX draft.<br>
<br>
As the IOAM data get mature, I think it=E2=80=99s the right get the YANG mo=
del adopted, so that we can implement the system.<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Tianran<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
ippm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&lt;mai=
lto:<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt=
;<br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--00000000000015574705ac3895ae--


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/DnA3YIaIlFnTa0t0tQkRgPmONf0>
Subject: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG
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<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dgb2312"><=
style>body { line-height: 1.5; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =CE=
=A2=C8=ED=D1=C5=BA=DA; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</style></he=
ad><body>=0A=
<div><span></span>Hello All,</div><div><br></div><div>Performance Measureme=
nt on LAG,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ip=
pm-pm-on-lag-00.txt" style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =CE=A2=C8=ED=
=D1=C5=BA=DA, Tahoma; line-height: normal; text-decoration: none !important=
; background-color: transparent;">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draf=
t-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt</a>, was not presented in the past virtual meeti=
ng due to limited time. T<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5=
; background-color: transparent;">his doc </span><span style=3D"font-size: =
10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">defines extension=
s to&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; backgr=
ound-color: transparent;">OWAMP, TWAMP and&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-=
size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">STAMP to im=
plement</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; backgroun=
d-color: transparent;">&nbsp;performance measurement on every member link o=
f a Link Aggregation</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1=
.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;Group (LAG). &nbsp;With the measu=
red metrics of each member link of a</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt=
; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;LAG, it enables o=
perators to enforce performance metric based traffic</span><span style=3D"f=
ont-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;s=
teering policy among the member links.</span></div><div><span style=3D"font=
-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;"><br></span=
></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-=
color: transparent;">The requirements come from field networks, where&nbsp;=
</span><span style=3D"background-color: transparent;">the link delays of th=
e member links of a LAG are</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-he=
ight: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;different because the memb=
er links are over different transport</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5p=
t; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&nbsp;paths. &nbsp;To =
provide low delay service to time sensitive traffic, we</span><span style=
=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">&n=
bsp;have to know the link delay of each member link of a LAG and then</span=
><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: tran=
sparent;">&nbsp;steer traffic accordingly.</span></div>=0A=
<div><br></div><div>We appreciate all the comments and suggestions.</div><d=
iv><br></div><div>Best Regards,</div><div>Zhenqiang Li</div><hr style=3D"wi=
dth: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A=
<div><span><div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t"><div>li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</div></div></span></div>=0A=
</body></html>=

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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
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There is quite a lot wrong with this I-D from the YANG point of view.  I
am surprised that it passes YANG validation, as the data tracker
reports, but that is validation for you!  Most of these comments derive
from YANG Guidelines RFC8407.

Tree diagram is now standardised as RFC8340 and is not normally regarded
as CODE

YANG version 1 was replaced in 2016

Prefix ietf-pot-profile is cumbersome - 3-5 characters is more than
enough for a prefix

Contact needs Editors

Copyright 2018 (feels about right:-)

Revision reference must reference this I-D/RFC2be

A grouping that is only used once increases size and complexity for no
benefit but in this case pot-profile is imported by IPPM; worth a 
mention somewhere.

List identifiers are conventionally plural.

IANA considerations are mandatory - if the module is not registered with
IANA there is no module

Security Considerations for YANG are mandatory - YANG Guidelines points
to the current text albeit trivial compared with those for POT:-).

These two Considerations will pull in another half a dozen Mandatory
references.

Key Words is ood - see RFC8174

When MTU is Maxiumum Transmission Unit, then it is a recognised
abbreviation and does not need expanding.

HMAC is Hashed ...in the RFC Editor list

Abstract/Introduction should mention that there is a YANG module, that
it conforms to NMDA and reference RFC7950.  IANA Considerations on the
other hand should reference RFC6020.

IPPM import this module so I copy that list.

Tom Petch

----- Original Message -----
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>
Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:01 AM
Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt


>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the
IETF.
>
>         Title           : Proof of Transit
>         Authors         : Frank Brockners
>                           Shwetha Bhandari
>                           Tal Mizrahi
>                           Sashank Dara
>                           Stephen Youell
> Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
> Pages           : 29
> Date            : 2020-06-16
>
> Abstract:
>    Several technologies such as Traffic Engineering (TE), Service
>    Function Chaining (SFC), and policy based routing are used to steer
>    traffic through a specific, user-defined path.  This document
defines
>    mechanisms to securely prove that traffic transited a defined path.
>    These mechanisms allow to securely verify whether, within a given
>    path, all packets traversed all the nodes that they are supposed to
>    visit.
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06
>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/[sfc] I-D Action:
draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
> internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue, 16 June 2020 12:52 UTCShow header
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/


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From: <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
To: t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
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Hi Tom,=20

FWIW, the authors are working on an updated version that will fixes many of=
 the points you raised. Some of the issues (e.g., the grouping) are clarifi=
ed here: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/ZOf8Yb_JK68v9O40PbD2MSjq=
J48/=20

Cheers,
Med

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De=A0: sfc [mailto:sfc-bounces@ietf.org] De la part de t petch
> Envoy=E9=A0: vendredi 7 ao=FBt 2020 12:19
> =C0=A0: sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org
> Objet=A0: Re: [sfc] I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
>=20
> There is quite a lot wrong with this I-D from the YANG point of view.
> I am surprised that it passes YANG validation, as the data tracker
> reports, but that is validation for you!  Most of these comments
> derive from YANG Guidelines RFC8407.
>=20
> Tree diagram is now standardised as RFC8340 and is not normally
> regarded as CODE
>=20
> YANG version 1 was replaced in 2016
>=20
> Prefix ietf-pot-profile is cumbersome - 3-5 characters is more than
> enough for a prefix
>=20
> Contact needs Editors
>=20
> Copyright 2018 (feels about right:-)
>=20
> Revision reference must reference this I-D/RFC2be
>=20
> A grouping that is only used once increases size and complexity for no
> benefit but in this case pot-profile is imported by IPPM; worth a
> mention somewhere.
>=20
> List identifiers are conventionally plural.
>=20
> IANA considerations are mandatory - if the module is not registered
> with IANA there is no module
>=20
> Security Considerations for YANG are mandatory - YANG Guidelines
> points to the current text albeit trivial compared with those for
> POT:-).
>=20
> These two Considerations will pull in another half a dozen Mandatory
> references.
>=20
> Key Words is ood - see RFC8174
>=20
> When MTU is Maxiumum Transmission Unit, then it is a recognised
> abbreviation and does not need expanding.
>=20
> HMAC is Hashed ...in the RFC Editor list
>=20
> Abstract/Introduction should mention that there is a YANG module, that
> it conforms to NMDA and reference RFC7950.  IANA Considerations on the
> other hand should reference RFC6020.
>=20
> IPPM import this module so I copy that list.
>=20
> Tom Petch
>=20
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> To: <i-d-announce@ietf.org>
> Cc: <sfc@ietf.org>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2020 10:01 AM
> Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
>=20
>=20
> >
> > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> > This draft is a work item of the Service Function Chaining WG of the
> IETF.
> >
> >         Title           : Proof of Transit
> >         Authors         : Frank Brockners
> >                           Shwetha Bhandari
> >                           Tal Mizrahi
> >                           Sashank Dara
> >                           Stephen Youell
> > Filename        : draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
> > Pages           : 29
> > Date            : 2020-06-16
> >
> > Abstract:
> >    Several technologies such as Traffic Engineering (TE), Service
> >    Function Chaining (SFC), and policy based routing are used to
> steer
> >    traffic through a specific, user-defined path.  This document
> defines
> >    mechanisms to securely prove that traffic transited a defined
> path.
> >    These mechanisms allow to securely verify whether, within a given
> >    path, all packets traversed all the nodes that they are supposed
> to
> >    visit.
> >
> >
> > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit/
> >
> > There are also htmlized versions available at:
> > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06
> >
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-
> 06
> >
> > A diff from the previous version is available at:
> > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06
> >
> >
> > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> >
> > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/[sfc] I-D Action:
> draft-ietf-sfc-proof-of-transit-06.txt
> > internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue, 16 June 2020 12:52 UTCShow header
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> sfc mailing list
> sfc@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/sfc

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Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: No Objection

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The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-route/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1

   test.  However, metrics for assessment of path components and related
   performance aspects had not been attempted in IPPM when the [RFC2330]
   framework was written.

nit(?): this seems to be the only place in the document that uses the
phrase "path component", and it was a bit confusing to me.  That is, I'm
used to seeing "path component" being (e.g.) one hop or link in a
multi-link path from source to destination, but the context here
suggests that it might be referring to something more like a single
route within a route ensemble.  I don't have a specific proposed change;
I just wanted to mention that I puzzled over this wording for a bit.

Section 2

   Also, to specify a framework for active methods of measurement which
   use the techniques described in [PT] at a minimum, and a framework
   for hybrid active-passive methods of measurement, such as the Hybrid
   Type I method [RFC7799] described in
   [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data](intended only for single administrative
   domains), which do not rely on ICMP and provide a protocol for
   explicit interrogation of nodes on a path.  [...]

nit: could you remind us that the "Also" refers to the scope of this
work (the previous paragraph started with "The scope is" but there was a
fair bit of intervening stuff between there and here).

   Hop  A Hop MUST contain a Node Identity, and MAY contain arrival and/
      or departure interface identification, round trip delay, and an
      arrival timestamp.

In my head a "hop" is the operation of going from node A to node B,
i.e., the journey and not the destination.  So if we're associating a
node identity with the hop, would we need to say if that's the source or
destination node of the "hop" (or am I just misunderstanding things)?

Section 3.3

   Nmax, the largest value of i needed for a packet to be received at
   Dst (sent between T0 and Tf).  Nmax may be equal to N.

I'm not really sure I understand how Nmax works.  That is, for any given
packet, it has a value for 'i', and that packet may or may not be
delivered.  But with 'i' defined as the limit on the number of hops for
"a specific packet may visit", I don't see how we get to do multiple
tries for the same packet with different 'i', as we would need to do in
order to determine the "largest value of i *needed*" (emphasis mine).
That is, we can set 'i' unreasonably large and that would result in
delivery, but that does not (as I understand it) meet the definition for
Nmax -- Nmax is supposed to be a boundary value for some condition.  I'm
just not entirely clear on exactly what that boundary is, since we're
talking about a specific packet, and my understanding is that we only
get one crack at a specific packet.

   o  t(i,j) Arrival Timestamp (where t(i,j) is ideally supplied by the
      Hop, or approximated from the sending time of the packet that
      revealed the Hop)

I'm getting a bit of deja vu as I write this, but it seems risky to
propose using the term "arrival timestamp" both for something generated
at the Hop and something generated by the sender of the packet, since
that loses information about the accuracy of the value for a given use
case.  Perhaps it's best to reserve the term for the ideal quantity and
leave approximations for the processing pipeline (as opposed to the
measurement pipeline).

Section 3.4

   RTL(i,j,T) is defined as a singleton of the [RFC6673] Round-trip Loss
   between the Node with address = Src and the Node at Hop h(i,j) at
   time T.

Just to check my understanding: does the "singleton" and "at time T"
force us into a logical (boolean) loss metric for this case, as opposed
to a sample-ratio-type loss metric?

Section 3.6

   identities at a minimum.  The models need to be expanded to include
   these features, as well as Arrival Interface ID, Departure Interface
   ID, and Arrival Timestamp, when available.  [...]

Is this expected to occur as future work?  (Is there an I-D worth
referencing?)

Section 4.1

   Internet routing is complex because it depends on the policies of
   thousands of Autonomous Systems (AS).  While most of the routers
   perform load balancing on flows using Equal Cost Multiple Path
   (ECMP), a few still divide the workload through packet-based
   techniques.  The former scenario is defined according to [RFC2991],
   while the latter generates a round-robin scheme to deliver every new
   outgoing packet.  [...]

I was surprised to see "packet-based techniques" refer to a round-robin
scheme for queuing outgoing packets across interfaces, but assume this
just means I need to do more background reading.  Any tips for where to
start?

   Formally, to maintain the same flow in the measurements to a
   particular hop, the Type-P-Route-Ensemble-Method-Variant packets
   should be[PT]:

It's not entirely clear that we need a reference for these attributes;
they seem to be fairly easy to verify independently, IIUC.

   o  TCP case: For IPv4, the fields Src, Dst, port-Src, port_Dst,
      sequence number, and Diffserv Field SHOULD be the same.  For IPv6,
      the field FlowLabel, Src and Dst SHOULD be the same.

Are we happy to pair "to maintain the same flow" (previous paragraph)
with "SHOULD be the same" (here, and subsequent bullet points)?

Section 4.1

   1.  SHOULD occasionally check path portions which have exhibited
       stable results over time, particularly ingress and egress
       portions of the path.

Do we want to give any (e.g., order of magnitude) guidance for
"occasionally"?

Section 4.2

   In addition to node identity, nodes may also identify the ingress and
   egress interfaces utilized by the tracing packet, the time of day
   when the packet was processed, and other generic data (as described

nit: I'd consider "absolute time" over "time of day", since the latter
may have connotations of implying that there is 24-hour-periodic
behavior.  (It may also be subject to local time zone on the node
inserting the value.)

Section 4.3

   1.  Nodes at the ingress to the domain SHOULD be both Discoverable
       and Cooperating, and SHOULD reveal the same Node Identity in
       response to both active and hybrid methods.

The second clause here seems redundant with point (2) that follows.
(Similarly for point (3)'s similar clause.)  That is, the recommendation
to use the same identity for both methods can only ever apply when the
node in question is both Discoverable and Cooperating -- if it's only
one, then there will only be one identity available, and no need for
consistency across methods.

   When Nodes follow these requirements, it becomes a simple matter to

Perhaps a philosophical question, but are "SHOULD"-level directives more
of "requirements" or "guidelines"?

Section 5

   traffic load is not stationary.  Nonetheless, as the first approach,
   a link seems to be congested if, after sending several traceroute
   probes, it is possible to detect congestion observing different
   statistics parameters (e.g., see [IDCong]).  Finally, to recognize

nit: please check the wording of this sentence; I think there may be a
missing word or similar.

Section 6

   every hop.  This procedure could be done for a single Member Route
   flow, with parameter E set as False, or for every detected Route
   Ensemble flow (E=True).

nit: I don't think we define 'E' until the full procedure, a few
paragraphs below.

   made.  Line 8 and 13 set a timer for each cycle of measurements.  A
   cycle comprises the traceroutes packets, considering every possible
   Hop and the alternatives paths in the Alt variable (ensured in lines
   9-12).  [...]

I recognize that this is pseudocode, but "what if the
advanced-traceroute() operation takes longer than the i_t time?"

Section 7

We could consider some bland statement about the measurement
technologies (e.g., ICMP) not providing cryptographic protection for the
requested/returned data, and the risks of processing untrusted data in
general.  This is particularly true for reverse DNS data, used in
determining whether node identities represent the same node or not,
since DNSSEC deployment remains inconsistent (especially for the reverse
zone).

   The security considerations that apply to any active measurement of
   live paths are relevant here as well.  See [RFC4656] and [RFC5357].

(The security considerations of 5357 don't seem to be adding much
discussion, here, though I don't object to referencing it.)

Section 9

Should we intuitively know who the "original 3 authors" are?

Section 11.1

I was surprised to see draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data in the normative
references section, as all the previous discussion was consistent with
merely an informative reference.

Similarly, RFCs 5388, 5835, 6437, and 7312 do not seem to be referenced
in a fashion that requires a normative reference.




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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with COMMENT) - extract: same flow
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From: "Carlos Pignataro (cpignata)" <cpignata@cisco.com>
To: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>
CC: "acm@research.att.com" <acm@research.att.com>, "kaduk@mit.edu" <kaduk@mit.edu>, "draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org>, "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, "ietf@trammell.ch" <ietf@trammell.ch>, "iesg@ietf.org" <iesg@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with COMMENT) - extract: same flow 
Thread-Index: AdZu3wiSLwbeDihgToSB2TT/H3C6xAAMIfFm
Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 12:12:49 +0000
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Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[ section 4.1 ]

* I don't quite understand this apparent reliance on IPv6 flows being routed or
  load-balanced by src/dst and flow label alone.  I know of implementations
  where that is not the case at all, and in fact RFC 6437 specifically advises
  that the flow label alone not be relied upon.  Quoting section 2:

  o  Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distributors MUST NOT
     depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distributed.  In
     any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the Flow Label
     bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sources within
     the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for each flow
     and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.
     Typically, the other fields used will be some or all components of
     the usual 5-tuple.  In this way, load distribution will still
     occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distributed.

  Perhaps I'm seriously misunderstanding something though...

* In the bulleted list following the final paragraph, the IP identification
  field is an IPv4-only header field.  What is the recommended mechanism for
  IPv6?


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[[ comments ]]

Overall, a very well written document, I thought; thank you.

[ section 3.3 ]

* Are N and Nmax actually determined at dst or are they determined by
  src when replies are received?

[ section 3.5 ]

* s/can't be detected at IP layer/can't be detected at the IP layer/

[ section 6 ]

* It looks like "parameter E" appears first in paragraph 5?  It might be good
  to provide some "E means exhaustive..." explanatory sentence.




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Date: Mon, 10 Aug 2020 17:22:19 -0700
From: Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu>
To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org>, "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with COMMENT)
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Hi Al,

On Sat, Aug 08, 2020 at 06:09:53PM +0000, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) wrote:
> Thanks for your review and Comments, Ben.
> Please see replies [acm] below,

Thanks for the updates and the illuminative replies.  I don't have any
further comments, so trimming the quoted text.

-Ben


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From nobody Tue Aug 11 00:12:10 2020
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" <li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>, ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG
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Hi Zhengqiang,

Seems that the below link is not available, here is an alternative ( https:=
//tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01 )

Best regards,
Mach

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of li_zhenqiang@hotmail=
.com
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 2:44 PM
To: ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG

Hello All,

Performance Measurement on LAG, https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-=
li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ippm=
-pm-on-lag-00.txt>, was not presented in the past virtual meeting due to li=
mited time. This doc defines extensions to OWAMP, TWAMP and STAMP to implem=
ent performance measurement on every member link of a Link Aggregation Grou=
p (LAG).  With the measured metrics of each member link of a LAG, it enable=
s operators to enforce performance metric based traffic steering policy amo=
ng the member links.

The requirements come from field networks, where the link delays of the mem=
ber links of a LAG are different because the member links are over differen=
t transport paths.  To provide low delay service to time sensitive traffic,=
 we have to know the link delay of each member link of a LAG and then steer=
 traffic accordingly.

We appreciate all the comments and suggestions.

Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
________________________________
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com<mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Zhengqiang,<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Seems that the below l=
ink is not available, here is an alternative (
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-s=
erif;color:#1F497D"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ippm-pm=
-on-lag-01">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01</a>
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Cal=
ibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">) &nbsp;&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Mach<o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 7, 2020 2:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> ippm &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Hello All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Performance Measurement on LAG,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/inter=
net-drafts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/internet-dr=
afts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt</a>,
 was not presented in the past virtual meeting due to limited time. This do=
c defines extensions to&nbsp;OWAMP, TWAMP and&nbsp;STAMP to implement&nbsp;=
performance measurement on every member link of a Link Aggregation&nbsp;Gro=
up (LAG). &nbsp;With the measured metrics of each member
 link of a&nbsp;LAG, it enables operators to enforce performance metric bas=
ed traffic&nbsp;steering policy among the member links.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>The requirements come from field networks, where&nbsp;the link delays of t=
he member links of a LAG are&nbsp;different because the member links are ov=
er different
 transport&nbsp;paths. &nbsp;To provide low delay service to time sensitive=
 traffic, we&nbsp;have to know the link delay of each member link of a LAG =
and then&nbsp;steer traffic accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>We appreciate all the comments and suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Zhenqiang Li<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:blac=
k">
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"210" style=3D"width:157.5pt" noshade=3D"" style=3D"=
color:#B5C4DF" align=3D"left">
</span></div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-=
bottom:7.5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:li_zhe=
nqiang@hotmail.com">li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Subject: [ippm] Warren Kumari's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: Discuss

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for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-route/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I have 2 DISCUSS points. I think that both should be easy to address...

1: "While most of the routers perform load balancing on flows using Equal Cost
Multiple Path (ECMP), a few still divide the workload through packet-based
techniques.  The former scenario is defined according to [RFC2991], while the
latter generates a round-robin scheme to deliver every new outgoing packet. 
ECMP uses a hashing function to ensure that every packet of a flow is delivered
by the same path, and this avoids increasing the packet delay variation and
possibly producing overwhelming packet reordering in TCP flows."

Round-robin / "per packet" is a form ECMP, and RFC2991 doesn't "define" just
the former, it explains both, and recommends the flow based /  hashed approach.
RFC 2991 describes a number of approaches (e.g Modulo-N Hash, Hash-Threshold,
Highest Random Weight (HRW)) and makes some good suggestions, but the text as
written isn't correct.

2: "In IPv6, it is sufficient to be routed identically if the IP source and
destination addresses and the FlowLabel are constant, see [RFC6437]." Many
routers currently ignore the FlowLabel and use other header info, like
port-numbers. The sentence might(?) be true in an idealized network, but in the
real world isn't. Some additional text should solve this...


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Questions / Comments:
1: "Although primarily intended for hosts communicating on the Internet
   with IP, the definitions and metrics are constructed to be applicable
   to other network domains, if desired."
This above says "with IP", but then the rest implies it works with other things
too - I suggest dropping the "with IP" part, unless this does work with other
protocols?

2: "  Also, to specify a framework for active methods of measurement which
   use the techniques described in [PT] at a minimum, and a framework
   for hybrid active-passive methods of measurement, such as the Hybrid
   Type I method [RFC7799] described in
   [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data](intended only for single administrative
   domains), which do not rely on ICMP and provide a protocol for
   explicit interrogation of nodes on a path."
This is a really long / hard to read sentence - can you split it into multiple?
I had to read it multiple time and am still having a hard time with the nested
clauses. Perhaps: "This also specifies a framework for active methods of
measurement which uses the techniques described in [PT], as well as a framework
for hybrid active-passive methods of measurement(such as the Hybrid Type I
method [RFC7799])."

3: " Node Identity  The unique address for Nodes communicating within the
      network domain.  For Nodes communicating on the Internet with IP,
      it is the globally routable IP address(es) which the Node uses
      when communicating with other Nodes under normal or error
      conditions. "
I'm not sure I understand -- this says the "unique address" and also "IP
address(es)" - it cannot be both singular/unique and multiple. This definition
needs clarification or a pointer to later in the document.

4: "Cooperating Node  Nodes that MUST respond to direct queries for their
      Node identity as part of a previously agreed and established
      interrogation protocol. "
I don't think that the "MUST" works here -- I think s/MUST/do/ (or s/MUST//).

5: "   Hop  A Hop MUST contain a Node Identity, and MAY contain arrival and/
      or departure interface identification, round trip delay, and an
      arrival timestamp." - this definition also doesn't really seem to define
      something, and I think needs to be rewritten or dropped.

6: "Routing Class  A route that treats equally a class C of different  types of
packets (unrelated to address classes of the past)". I think that it is really
unfortunate that the term "class C" was chosen for this - I understand that
there is a clarification, and don't really expect you to change it, but it
needlessly makes the document harder to read for people who naturally associate
Class A, B, C, D with classful addresses. I recognize that this terminology
comes from RFC2330, but it is till confusing. An additional clarification that
this term is being used because of history would probably help.

7: "Next define a *singleton* definition for a Hop on the path, with sufficient
indexes to identify all Hops identified in a measurement interval." I'm not
sure that "singleton" is a well understood term outside of software
engineering, and that you need to better explain it (esp because you have felt
it important enough to emphasize). Perhaps "data structure to uniquely identify
a hop" or similar?

8: "   o  If a pair of discovered Nodes identify two different addresses,
      then they will appear to be different Nodes.

   o  If a pair of discovered Nodes identify two different IP addresses,
      and the IP addresses resolve to the same Node name (in the DNS),
      then they will appear to be the same Nodes."
Please either include "IP" in both or neither of the above, otherwise it sounds
like it is a differentiating factor.

9: " UDP and TCP are used when a particular characteristic needs to
   be verified, such as filtering or traffic shaping on specific ports
   (i.e., services). "
TCP traceroute is also used when ICMP responses are not received - while "such
as filtering" *could* cover this, it would require squinting...

10: "Furthermore, either Paris-traceroute or
   Scamper is capable of unveiling the many available paths between a
   source and destination (which are visible to this method)."
Visible to *which* method? The one described in this doc? The methods
implemented in Paris-traceroute/Scamper?

Nits:

1: "1.1.  Issues with Earlier Work to define Route"
It seems that this is missing a word after "Route" - perhaps metric? Also, I
understand the Title Case, but please either drop it, or uppercase D in define.

2: "Paris-traceroute allows its users to measure RTD in every hop of the
   path for a particular flow."
s/measure RTD/measure the RTD/

3: You seem to be using multiple ways of adding emphasis (*something*, --from
the Observation Point --, etc). This is confusing / doesn't follow existing
style.




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From: Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 11 Aug 2020 17:59:55 -0700
Message-ID: <CAMGpriX3Wo5TWCSi1Hzr3tV4X+PyMN2FJVA9y-gyfLgsCW-9mw@mail.gmail.com>
To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>,  "draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org>,  "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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These make good sense to me, thank you.

I'll clear my discuss since, as you say, these changes are in the working
version (and I assume the doc will be in "Revised I-D needed" after/as of
the telechat).

Many thanks!

On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:06 AM MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com>
wrote:

> Hi Erik,
>
> Thanks for your review, let's try to answer/clear your DISCUSS and
> comments.
>
> All changes below have been added to the working version.
>
> Al
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Erik Kline via Datatracker [mailto:noreply@ietf.org]
> > Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 8:00 PM
> > To: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
> > Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org; ippm-chairs@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org;
> > Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>; ietf@trammell.ch
> > Subject: Erik Kline's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with DISCUSS
> > and COMMENT)
> >
> > Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for
> > draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: Discuss
> >
> .
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > DISCUSS:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > [ section 4.1 ]
> >
> > * I don't quite understand this apparent reliance on IPv6 flows being
> routed or
> >   load-balanced by src/dst and flow label alone.  I know of
> implementations
> >   where that is not the case at all, and in fact RFC 6437 specifically
> advises
> >   that the flow label alone not be relied upon.  Quoting section 2:
> >
> >   o  Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distributors MUST NOT
> >      depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly distributed.  In
> >      any usage such as a hash key for load distribution, the Flow Label
> >      bits MUST be combined at least with bits from other sources within
> >      the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value for each flow
> >      and a suitable distribution of hash values across flows.
> >      Typically, the other fields used will be some or all components of
> >      the usual 5-tuple.  In this way, load distribution will still
> >      occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly distributed.
> >
> >   Perhaps I'm seriously misunderstanding something though...
> [acm]
> I think the change below might help. The context in the first sentence is
> simply fields that must be maintained constant. I understand this second
> sentence as referring to the IP Header-only, and we can make this more
> clear:
> OLD
> In IPv6, it is sufficient to be routed identically if the IP source and
> destination addresses and the FlowLabel are constant, see RFC 6437.
> NEW
> When considering IPv6 headers, it is necessary to ensure that the IP
> source and destination addresses and the FlowLabel are constant, see RFC
> 6437.
>
> >
> > * In the bulleted list following the final paragraph, the IP
> identification
> >   field is an IPv4-only header field.  What is the recommended mechanism
> for
> >   IPv6?
> >
> [acm] In each item of the bullet list above the final paragraph, we dealt
> with IPv6, saying:
>
> ... For IPv6, the field FlowLabel, Src and Dst SHOULD be the same.
>
>
> The last paragraph indicates the changes for IPv4-only, so we can clarify
> that:
> OLD
> Then, the way to identify different hops and attempts of the same flow is:
> NEW
> Then, the way to identify different hops and attempts of the same IPv4
> flow is:
>
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > COMMENT:
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > [[ comments ]]
> >
> > Overall, a very well written document, I thought; thank you.
> [acm]
> :-)
>
> >
> > [ section 3.3 ]
> >
> > * Are N and Nmax actually determined at dst or are they determined by
> >   src when replies are received?
> [acm]
> N is determined when a packet actually reaches dst (for a given flow).
> Nmax is calculated at the src using all replies from dst: Nmax = Max(N)
>
> >
> > [ section 3.5 ]
> >
> > * s/can't be detected at IP layer/can't be detected at the IP layer/
> [acm]
> ok
> >
> > [ section 6 ]
> >
> > * It looks like "parameter E" appears first in paragraph 5?  It might be
> > good
> >   to provide some "E means exhaustive..." explanatory sentence.
> [acm]
> This was one of Ben's comments. We changed the sentence to read:
>
> This procedure could be done for a single Member Route flow, an
> non-exhaustive search with parameter E (defined below) set as False, or for
> every detected Route Ensemble flow (E=True).
>
> >
> >
>
>

--00000000000064fee905aca3b52b
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>These make good=C2=A0sense to me, thank you.</div><di=
v><br></div><div>I&#39;ll clear my discuss since, as you say, these=C2=A0ch=
anges are in the working version (and I assume the doc will be in &quot;Rev=
ised I-D needed&quot; after/as of the telechat).</div><div><br></div><div>M=
any thanks!</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"g=
mail_attr">On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 7:06 AM MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:acm@research.att.com">acm@research.att.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi Erik,<br>
<br>
Thanks for your review, let&#39;s try to answer/clear your DISCUSS and comm=
ents.<br>
<br>
All changes below have been added to the working version.<br>
<br>
Al<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Erik Kline via Datatracker [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf.org</a>]<br>
&gt; Sent: Monday, August 10, 2020 8:00 PM<br>
&gt; To: The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ie=
sg@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt; Cc: <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
">draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>;<br>
&gt; Brian Trammell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ietf@trammell.ch" target=3D"_blan=
k">ietf@trammell.ch</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:ietf@trammell.ch" target=3D"=
_blank">ietf@trammell.ch</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Erik Kline&#39;s Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with D=
ISCUSS<br>
&gt; and COMMENT)<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for<br>
&gt; draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: Discuss<br>
&gt; <br>
.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; DISCUSS:<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [ section 4.1 ]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; * I don&#39;t quite understand this apparent reliance on IPv6 flows be=
ing routed or<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0load-balanced by src/dst and flow label alone.=C2=A0 I kno=
w of implementations<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0where that is not the case at all, and in fact RFC 6437 sp=
ecifically advises<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0that the flow label alone not be relied upon.=C2=A0 Quotin=
g section 2:<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Forwarding nodes such as routers and load distribu=
tors MUST NOT<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 depend only on Flow Label values being uniformly d=
istributed.=C2=A0 In<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 any usage such as a hash key for load distribution=
, the Flow Label<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 bits MUST be combined at least with bits from othe=
r sources within<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the packet, so as to produce a constant hash value=
 for each flow<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 and a suitable distribution of hash values across =
flows.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Typically, the other fields used will be some or a=
ll components of<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 the usual 5-tuple.=C2=A0 In this way, load distrib=
ution will still<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 occur even if the Flow Label values are poorly dis=
tributed.<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0Perhaps I&#39;m seriously misunderstanding something thoug=
h...<br>
[acm] <br>
I think the change below might help. The context in the first sentence is s=
imply fields that must be maintained constant. I understand this second sen=
tence as referring to the IP Header-only, and we can make this more clear:<=
br>
OLD<br>
In IPv6, it is sufficient to be routed identically if the IP source and des=
tination addresses and the FlowLabel are constant, see RFC 6437.<br>
NEW<br>
When considering IPv6 headers, it is necessary to ensure that the IP source=
 and destination addresses and the FlowLabel are constant, see RFC 6437.<br=
>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; * In the bulleted list following the final paragraph, the IP identific=
ation<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0field is an IPv4-only header field.=C2=A0 What is the reco=
mmended mechanism for<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0IPv6?<br>
&gt; <br>
[acm] In each item of the bullet list above the final paragraph, we dealt w=
ith IPv6, saying:<br>
<br>
... For IPv6, the field FlowLabel, Src and Dst SHOULD be the same.<br>
<br>
<br>
The last paragraph indicates the changes for IPv4-only, so we can clarify t=
hat:<br>
OLD<br>
Then, the way to identify different hops and attempts of the same flow is:<=
br>
NEW<br>
Then, the way to identify different hops and attempts of the same IPv4 flow=
 is:<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; COMMENT:<br>
&gt; ----------------------------------------------------------------------=
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [[ comments ]]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; Overall, a very well written document, I thought; thank you.<br>
[acm] <br>
:-)<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [ section 3.3 ]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; * Are N and Nmax actually determined at dst or are they determined by<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0src when replies are received?<br>
[acm] <br>
N is determined when a packet actually reaches dst (for a given flow).<br>
Nmax is calculated at the src using all replies from dst: Nmax =3D Max(N) <=
br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [ section 3.5 ]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; * s/can&#39;t be detected at IP layer/can&#39;t be detected at the IP =
layer/<br>
[acm] <br>
ok<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; [ section 6 ]<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; * It looks like &quot;parameter E&quot; appears first in paragraph 5?=
=C2=A0 It might be<br>
&gt; good<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0to provide some &quot;E means exhaustive...&quot; explanat=
ory sentence.<br>
[acm] <br>
This was one of Ben&#39;s comments. We changed the sentence to read:<br>
<br>
This procedure could be done for a single Member Route flow, an non-exhaust=
ive search with parameter E (defined below) set as False, or for every dete=
cted Route Ensemble flow (E=3DTrue).<br>
<br>
&gt; <br>
&gt; <br>
<br>
</blockquote></div></div>

--00000000000064fee905aca3b52b--


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Subject: [ippm] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with COMMENT)
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Murray Kucherawy has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 3's title made me expect a glossary, but it also lays out actual
normative requirements.  This seems odd.  Personal preference, but I suggest
separating them out.   I note that Warren also tripped over this.

Also in Section 3, I tripped over "class C" as Warren did.  But I think what
you're doing is trying to introduce a label "C" to define the class of packet
types in this context, so maybe:

OLD:

    A route that treats equally a class C of different ...

NEW:

    A route that treats equally a class, referred to here as "C", of different
    ...

Then you can just refer to "C" later and drop the confusing references to
"class C".

Section 3.1 starts with something that isn't a sentence.  I suggest making it
one.

Section 4.1 uses SHOULD in a number of places that leave me wondering, "Or else
what?"  You're presenting the implementer with a choice here, but it doesn't
feel like these choices are fully developed.  The same occurs in 4.3.  Are
nodes not conforming to these SHOULDs malfunctioning, misconfigured, or simply
opting out?




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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 16:13:28 +0800
From: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" <li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>
To: "Mach Chen" <mach.chen@huawei.com>,  "xiao.min2@zte.com.cn" <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/Uwv4QCIDXOcBXqas0yIlAS8G6OE>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG
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<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><s=
tyle>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:=
 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; }body {=
 font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5=
; }</style></head><body>=0A=
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" ></o:shapedefaults>=0A=
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">=0A=
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" ></o:idmap>=0A=
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->=0A=
<div><span></span>Hello Min,</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your co=
mment and suggestion!</div><div>The problem to be addressed is ugent for us=
 since lots of delay sensitive services are springing out in our networks. =
We can not guarentee the time delay for the services without knowing the de=
lay of each member link of a LAG.</div>=0A=
<div><br></div><div>As for seperating the doc into two, I am fine with it. =
We should define the extensions for STAMP,&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 1=
0.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">TWAMP</span><span =
style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent=
;">&nbsp;and OWAMP because they are all used in the field networks.</span><=
/div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-co=
lor: transparent;"><br></span></div><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; =
line-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">Best Regards,</span></div=
><div><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; background-color:=
 transparent;">Zhenqiang Li &nbsp;</span></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; h=
eight: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A=
<div><span><div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t"><div>li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</div></div></span></div>=0A=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5e=
m"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0p=
t;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT=
: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefe=
f; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D=
"mailto:mach.chen@huawei.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underl=
ine;">Mach Chen</a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-08-11&nbsp;15:17</div>=
<div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:xiao.min2@zte.com.cn" style=3D"color=
: blue; text-decoration: underline;">xiao.min2@zte.com.cn</a>; <a href=3D"m=
ailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: unde=
rline;">li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</a></div><div><b>CC:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">ipp=
m@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;RE: [ippm]  Welcome comment o=
n Performance Measurement on LAG</div></div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv=
20200812155525410346">=0A=
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->=0A=
<div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;">=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Xiaomin,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Thanks for the sugge=
stion!<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">As one of the co-aut=
hors, I am open to keep them in one document or separate it into two docume=
nts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Mach<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>=0A=
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"=
> ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org]=0A=
<b>On Behalf Of </b>xiao.min2@zte.com.cn<br>=0A=
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, August 11, 2020 2:45 PM<br>=0A=
<b>To:</b> li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com<br>=0A=
<b>Cc:</b> ippm@ietf.org<br>=0A=
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LA=
G<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,sans-serif">Hi Zhenqiang,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,sans-serif">Thanks for the nice draft addressing a real problem in =
field networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,sans-serif">I propose to split this draft into two new drafts, one =
for OWAMP/TWAMP, another for STAMP. I think that will facilitate folks to r=
ead and evaluate them.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,sans-serif"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,sans-serif">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Aria=
l&quot;,sans-serif">Xiao Min<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"center" style=3D"text-align: center; line-h=
eight: 21pt; margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93; background: rgb(224, 229, 233);">=0A=
<span style=3D"color:#1388FF">=E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6<span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></span></p>=0A=
<div id=3D"zwriteHistoryContainer">=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; background: rgb(245, 246, 248);"><strong><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</=
span></strong><span class=3D"zreadusername"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D=
"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: un=
derline;">li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@h=
otmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">li_zhenqiang=
@hotmail.com</a>&gt;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></=
p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; background: rgb(245, 246, 248);"><strong><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9A</=
span></strong><span class=3D"zreadusername"><span lang=3D"EN-US">ippm &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: unde=
rline;">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;;</span></span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p=
></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; background: rgb(245, 246, 248);"><strong><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A</span></=
strong><span lang=3D"EN-US">2020</span>=E5=B9=B4<span lang=3D"EN-US">08</sp=
an>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3D"EN-US">07</span>=E6=97=A5<span lang=3D"EN-US"> 14=
:43<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93; background: rgb(245, 246, 248);"><strong><span styl=
e=3D"font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9A<span lan=
g=3D"EN-US">[ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG</span>=
</span></strong><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">_____________________________=
__________________<br>=0A=
ippm&nbsp;mailing&nbsp;list<br>=0A=
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: und=
erline;">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>=0A=
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" style=3D"color: blue=
; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</=
a><o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hello All,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Performance Measurement on LA=
G,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on=
-lag-00.txt" target=3D"_blank" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: under=
line;"><span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=
=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/d=
raft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt</span></a>,=0A=
 was not presented in the past virtual meeting due to limited time. T</span=
><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">his doc defines extensions=
 to&nbsp;OWAMP, TWAMP and&nbsp;STAMP to implement&nbsp;performance measurem=
ent on every member link of a Link Aggregation&nbsp;Group=0A=
 (LAG). &nbsp;With the measured metrics of each member link of a&nbsp;LAG, =
it enables operators to enforce performance metric based traffic&nbsp;steer=
ing policy among the member links.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></=
span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">Th=
e requirements come from field networks, where&nbsp;</span><span lang=3D"EN=
-US">the link delays of the member links of a LAG are</span><span lang=3D"E=
N-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt">&nbsp;different because=0A=
 the member links are over different transport&nbsp;paths. &nbsp;To provide=
 low delay service to time sensitive traffic, we&nbsp;have to know the link=
 delay of each member link of a LAG and then&nbsp;steer traffic accordingly=
.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">We appreciate all the comment=
s and suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Zhenqiang Li<o:p></o:p></span=
></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=0A=
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"210" style=3D"width:157.5pt" noshade=3D"" align=3D"=
left">=0A=
</span></div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div style=3D"margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-=
bottom:7.5pt">=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif"><a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hot=
mail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">li_zhenqiang@h=
otmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<p style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=
=93;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div></div></blockquote>=0A=
</body></html>=

------=_001_NextPart787627256830_=------


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Éric Vyncke has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: No Objection

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email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
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for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-route/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the work put into this document.

I support many of the previous COMMENT / DISCUSS points raised by Warren and
Erik. I will avoid repeating other ADs' points.

Please find below a couple of non-blocking COMMENTs (and I would appreciate a
reply to each of my COMMENTs).

I hope that this helps to improve the document,

Regards,

-éric

== COMMENTS ==

-- Section 1.1 --
"path detection methods like [PT] rely on TTL limits", please add the name
rather than a reference to [PT] (I assume it is Paris Traceroute). Also, I
suggest to s/TTL/hop limit/ (or use the same verbiage as for "cloud subpath".

Please fix "that decrement TTL or Hop Count" into "hop limit" ;-)

-- Section 3.5 --
About bullet 3,
          "If a discovered Node always replies using the same network
      address, regardless of the interface a packet arrives on, then
      multiple parallel links cannot be detected in that network domain."
If RFC 5837 is implemented, then in this case parallel links can still be
detected based on the discovery mechanism or did I miss anything ?

-- Section 4.1 --
"[SCAMPER] supports IPv6 traceroute measurements,
   keeping the FlowLabel constant in all packets."
All packets of the same flow or among all flows ? (I guess from the same
measurement but probably worth adding more description). The way the sentence
is worded sounds like 'only scamper can do IPv6 traceroutes.

As noted in other IESG reviews, I would appreciate clarification / fixes in
        "it is sufficient to be routed
   identically if the IP source and destination addresses and the
   FlowLabel are constant" and the following list

About IPv6, I fear that the presence of some extension headers may prevent the
hashing in ECMP/UCMP. Should there be some text around this issue ?

Other reviews have raise a DISCUSS about "The IP identification field." that
does not exist in IPv6, so, I won't raise it again.

-- Section 6 --
This section is written by using only IPv4 vocabulary while other sections are
also mentioning IPv6 concepts.

== NITS ==

https://tools.ietf.org/idnits?url=https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-ippm-route-09.txt
points to a couple of downrefs.

ECMP and UCMP are expanded multiple times.




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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
To: Murray Kucherawy <superuser@gmail.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org>, "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
Thread-Topic: Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWcGvHcP53RGrsdUGFhkYeJI8v6ak0X7kw
Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 13:37:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Murray Kucherawy's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with COMMENT)
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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
To: =?utf-8?B?w4lyaWMgVnluY2tl?= <evyncke@cisco.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org>, "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 19:48:04 +0000
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From: "Eric Vyncke (evyncke)" <evyncke@cisco.com>
To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org>, "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
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Date: Wed, 12 Aug 2020 19:52:37 +0000
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From nobody Thu Aug 13 02:55:20 2020
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From: Robert Wilton via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Subject: [ippm] Robert Wilton's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: (with COMMENT)
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Robert Wilton has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-route-09: No Objection

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Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
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The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-route/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Hi,

Thank you for this document, I found it mostly straight forward to read, but I
find the definition in section 3.2 slightly confusing.

3.2.  Parameters

   This section lists the REQUIRED input factors to specify a Route
   metric.

...

Possibly I'm slightly confused by what a Route metric is (it is outside of
domain of knowledge) but I was surprised by some of the input parameters (e.g.
"i", "T", "Ta").  This is probably because I initially read this sentence as
defining what parameters would need to be specified to enable an program to
perform a route metric calculation across the network (e.g., like the set of
options that might be provided to traceroute).  However, I suspect a different
meaning is intended, perhaps that these are the mandatory parameters that must
be considered in a route metric calculation?  Perhaps some tweaking of this
text might help clarify the intent?

Regards,
Rob




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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
To: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-route@ietf.org>, "ippm-chairs@ietf.org" <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, Brian Trammell <ietf@trammell.ch>
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Content-Type: text/plain; name="draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt"
Content-Description: draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt";
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Advanced Unidirectional Route Assessment (AURA)
        Authors         : J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin
                          Al Morton
                          Joachim Fabini
                          Carlos Pignataro
                          Ruediger Geib
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt
	Pages           : 27
	Date            : 2020-08-13

Abstract:
   This memo introduces an advanced unidirectional route assessment
   (AURA) metric and associated measurement methodology, based on the IP
   Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework RFC 2330.  This memo updates RFC
   2330 in the areas of path-related terminology and path description,
   primarily to include the possibility of parallel subpaths between a
   given Source and Destination pair, owing to the presence of multi-
   path technologies.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-route/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-route-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-route-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-route-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
To: "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
CC: Warren Kumari <warren@kumari.net>, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt
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IPPM,

After a week of resolving comments, we have two DISCUSS blocking comments r=
emaining, but this draft satisfies:

	New State: IESG Evaluation::Revised I-D Needed

@Martin,=20
@Warren,=20
      the ball is in your court.

thanks and regards,
Al
for the AURA co-authors=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of internet-
> drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Thursday, August 13, 2020 11:53 AM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: ippm@ietf.org
> Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the
> IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : Advanced Unidirectional Route Assessment (AURA)
>         Authors         : J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin
>                           Al Morton
>                           Joachim Fabini
>                           Carlos Pignataro
>                           Ruediger Geib
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt
> 	Pages           : 27
> 	Date            : 2020-08-13
>=20
> Abstract:
>    This memo introduces an advanced unidirectional route assessment
>    (AURA) metric and associated measurement methodology, based on the IP
>    Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework RFC 2330.  This memo updates RFC
>    2330 in the areas of path-related terminology and path description,
>    primarily to include the possibility of parallel subpaths between a
>    given Source and Destination pair, owing to the presence of multi-
>    path technologies.
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-
> 3A__datatracker.ietf.org_doc_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Droute_&d=3DDwICAg&c=3D=
LFYZ-
> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3Dro2rXiFbHWOXFfjZuJiPvgGR=
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>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
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> 3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Droute-2D10&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DL=
FYZ-
> o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3Dro2rXiFbHWOXFfjZuJiPvgGR=
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> 2D10&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ-
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>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__www.ietf.org_rfcdi=
ff-
> 3Furl2-3Ddraft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Droute-2D10&d=3DDwICAg&c=3DLFYZ-
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> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
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t-
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From nobody Thu Aug 13 17:13:34 2020
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From: Erik Kline via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org>
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Subject: [ippm] Erik Kline's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-08: (with COMMENT)
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Erik Kline has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-08: No Objection

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

[ general ]

* I sill find the access ID being a boolean for 3GPP or not being a bit
  odd, but not super important I guess.

[ section 4 ]

*  "All multibyte fields in the defined in this specification TLVs are in
   network byte order."

   -->

   "... fields defined in this spec..."?




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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" <li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG
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Hi Zhenqiang, all,

In my understanding, performance measurement of LAG member link is a useful=
 feature, which can be used as the input for traffic steering to meet speci=
fic service requirement. Thus the mechanisms defined for STAMP, TWAMP and O=
WAMP in this document are needed.

Would like to see this document move forward.

Best regards,
Jie


From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of li_zhenqiang@hotmail=
.com<mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>
Sent: Friday, August 7, 2020 2:44 PM
To: ippm <ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>>
Subject: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG

Hello All,

Performance Measurement on LAG, https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-=
li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt<https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ippm=
-pm-on-lag-00.txt>, was not presented in the past virtual meeting due to li=
mited time. This doc defines extensions to OWAMP, TWAMP and STAMP to implem=
ent performance measurement on every member link of a Link Aggregation Grou=
p (LAG).  With the measured metrics of each member link of a LAG, it enable=
s operators to enforce performance metric based traffic steering policy amo=
ng the member links.

The requirements come from field networks, where the link delays of the mem=
ber links of a LAG are different because the member links are over differen=
t transport paths.  To provide low delay service to time sensitive traffic,=
 we have to know the link delay of each member link of a LAG and then steer=
 traffic accordingly.

We appreciate all the comments and suggestions.

Best Regards,
Zhenqiang Li
________________________________
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com<mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Zhenqiang, all,
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In my understanding, p=
erformance measurement of LAG member link is a useful feature, which can be=
 used as the input for traffic steering to meet
 specific service requirement. Thus the mechanisms defined for STAMP, TWAMP=
 and OWAMP in this document are needed.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Would like to see this=
 document move forward.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:=
p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jie<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></spa=
n></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-=
US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> =
ippm [<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org=
</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com">li_zhenqian=
g@hotmail.com</a><br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 7, 2020 2:44 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> ippm &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<=
br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Hello All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Performance Measurement on LAG,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/inter=
net-drafts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-00.txt">https://www.ietf.org/internet-dr=
afts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt</a>,
 was not presented in the past virtual meeting due to limited time. This do=
c defines extensions to&nbsp;OWAMP, TWAMP and&nbsp;STAMP to implement&nbsp;=
performance measurement on every member link of a Link Aggregation&nbsp;Gro=
up (LAG). &nbsp;With the measured metrics of each member
 link of a&nbsp;LAG, it enables operators to enforce performance metric bas=
ed traffic&nbsp;steering policy among the member links.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>The requirements come from field networks, where&nbsp;the link delays of t=
he member links of a LAG are&nbsp;different because the member links are ov=
er different
 transport&nbsp;paths. &nbsp;To provide low delay service to time sensitive=
 traffic, we&nbsp;have to know the link delay of each member link of a LAG =
and then&nbsp;steer traffic accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>We appreciate all the comments and suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-=
family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"=
>Zhenqiang Li<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;fon=
t-family:&quot;&#24494;&#36719;&#38597;&#40657;&quot;,sans-serif;color:blac=
k">
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"210" style=3D"width:157.5pt" noshade=3D"" style=3D"=
color:#B5C4DF" align=3D"left">
</span></div>
</div>
<div>
<div style=3D"margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-=
bottom:7.5pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-=
family:&quot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:li_zhe=
nqiang@hotmail.com">li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
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Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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Hello IPPM,

As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is =
stable, and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.

The latest version can be found here: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-02 =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-02>

The last call will end on Wednesday, September 2. Please reply to =
ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org> with your reviews and comments, and =
indicate if you think the document is ready to progress!

Best,
Tommy & Ian=

--Apple-Mail=_A8C5229C-B74D-410B-A9B2-9AB0CEDEF5D8
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hello=
 IPPM,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">As discussed =
at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is stable, and the =
group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The latest version can =
be found here:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method=
-02" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-met=
hod-02</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The =
last call will end on <b class=3D"">Wednesday, September 2</b>. Please =
reply to <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a>&nbsp;with your reviews and comments, and =
indicate if you think the document is ready to progress!</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Best,</div><div =
class=3D"">Tommy &amp; Ian</div></body></html>=

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Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-03.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Metrics and Methods for IP Capacity
        Authors         : Al Morton
                          Ruediger Geib
                          Len Ciavattone
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-03.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2020-08-14

Abstract:
   This memo revisits the problem of Network Capacity metrics first
   examined in RFC 5136.  The memo specifies a more practical Maximum
   IP-layer Capacity metric definition catering for measurement
   purposes, and outlines the corresponding methods of measurement.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-03
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-03

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-03


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/



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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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--_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF0140BC96B0njmtexg5resea_
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Thanks Tommy and Ian!

While updating a few references this week, I noticed that the 02 draft had =
no Security Considerations Section.  That won't do!

The co-authors came together and supplied new text for the Section in versi=
on 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the draft during W=
GLC.  Thank you IPPM.

For the co-authors,
Al


From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method

Hello IPPM,

As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is stable,=
 and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.

The latest version can be found here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet=
f-ippm-capacity-metric-method-02<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=
=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dcapacity-2Dmetric-2D=
method-2D02&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cB=
w&m=3DSIvlMcMEEzV1Wv8tA8hftr1Fvi38_c2R6bgbotceIsU&s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw=
-jjrpTxRsPst6bsHPjjExE&e=3D>

The last call will end on Wednesday, September 2. Please reply to ippm@ietf=
.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org> with your reviews and comments, and indicate if =
you think the document is ready to progress!

Best,
Tommy & Ian

--_000_4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF0140BC96B0njmtexg5resea_
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->
</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Thanks Tommy and Ian!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">While updating a few references this week, I n=
oticed that the 02 draft had no Security Considerations Section.&nbsp; That=
 won&#8217;t do!<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">The co-authors came together and supplied new =
text for the Section in version 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider ver=
sion 03 of the draft during WGLC.&nbsp; Thank you IPPM.&nbsp;
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">For the co-authors,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black">Al<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Co=
urier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose"><span style=3D"font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p><=
/span></a></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf=
.org]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Tommy Pauly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-m=
etric-method is stable, and the group felt it is ready for Working Group La=
st Call.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The latest version can be found here:&nbsp;<a href=
=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_h=
tml_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dcapacity-2Dmetric-2Dmethod-2D02&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&am=
p;c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&amp;r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&amp;m=3DSIvlMcM=
EEzV1Wv8tA8hftr1Fvi38_c2R6bgbotceIsU&amp;s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw-jjrpTxRs=
Pst6bsHPjjExE&amp;e=3D">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacit=
y-metric-method-02</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The last call will end on <b>Wednesday, September 2<=
/b>. Please reply to
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org</a>&nbsp;with your reviews a=
nd comments, and indicate if you think the document is ready to progress!<o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tommy &amp; Ian<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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Date: Mon, 17 Aug 2020 09:06:30 +0800
From: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" <li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>
To: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>,  ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/jJw3-pXfjO8vAOLlhNJJu_AmNmg>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG
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<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><s=
tyle>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:=
 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }p { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 0px; }body {=
 font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; colo=
r: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =
=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5=
; }</style></head><body>=0A=
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" ></o:shapedefaults>=0A=
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">=0A=
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" ></o:idmap>=0A=
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->=0A=
<div><span></span>Hello Jie,</div><div><br></div><div>Thank you for your co=
mment. I believe the extension mechanism introduced in this doc is essentia=
l input to steer the traffic of time delay sensitive service.</div><div>We =
are updating this doc according to all the comments and suggestions receive=
d.</div>=0A=
<div><br></div><div>Best Regards,</div><div>Zhenqiang Li</div><hr style=3D"=
width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A=
<div><span><div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t"><div>li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</div></div></span></div>=0A=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5e=
m"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0p=
t;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT=
: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefe=
f; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D=
"mailto:jie.dong@huawei.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underli=
ne;">Dongjie (Jimmy)</a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2020-08-14&nbsp;18:13<=
/div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" style=
=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</a>;=
 <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: un=
derline;">ippm@ietf.org</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;RE: [ippm] Welco=
me comment on Performance Measurement on LAG</div></div></div><div><div cla=
ss=3D"FoxDiv20200817085809475720">=0A=
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" ></o:shapedefaults>=0A=
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">=0A=
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" ></o:idmap>=0A=
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->=0A=
<div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;">=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Hi Zhenqiang, all,=0A=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">In my understanding, performance=
 measurement of LAG member link is a useful feature, which can be used as t=
he input for traffic steering to meet=0A=
 specific service requirement. Thus the mechanisms defined for STAMP, TWAMP=
 and OWAMP in this document are needed.=0A=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Would like to see this document =
move forward.=0A=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D">Jie<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> ippm [<a =
href=3D"mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration=
: underline;">mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org</a>]=0A=
<b>On Behalf Of </b><a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" style=3D"co=
lor: blue; text-decoration: underline;">li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com</a><br>=0A=
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 7, 2020 2:44 PM<br>=0A=
<b>To:</b> ippm &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; =
text-decoration: underline;">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>=0A=
<b>Subject:</b> [ippm] Welcome comment on Performance Measurement on LAG<o:=
p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Hello=
 All,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Perfo=
rmance Measurement on LAG,&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-dr=
afts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-00.txt" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration:=
 underline;">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-0=
1.txt</a>,=0A=
 was not presented in the past virtual meeting due to limited time. This do=
c defines extensions to&nbsp;OWAMP, TWAMP and&nbsp;STAMP to implement&nbsp;=
performance measurement on every member link of a Link Aggregation&nbsp;Gro=
up (LAG). &nbsp;With the measured metrics of each member=0A=
 link of a&nbsp;LAG, it enables operators to enforce performance metric bas=
ed traffic&nbsp;steering policy among the member links.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">The r=
equirements come from field networks, where&nbsp;the link delays of the mem=
ber links of a LAG are&nbsp;different because the member links are over dif=
ferent=0A=
 transport&nbsp;paths. &nbsp;To provide low delay service to time sensitive=
 traffic, we&nbsp;have to know the link delay of each member link of a LAG =
and then&nbsp;steer traffic accordingly.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">We ap=
preciate all the comments and suggestions.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><o:p>=
&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Best =
Regards,<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:black">Zhenq=
iang Li<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm 0cm 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt=
; font-family: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font=
-family:&quot;=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91&quot;,sans-serif;color:b=
lack">=0A=
<hr size=3D"1" width=3D"210" style=3D"width:157.5pt" noshade=3D"" align=3D"=
left">=0A=
</span></div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div style=3D"margin-left:7.5pt;margin-top:7.5pt;margin-right:7.5pt;margin-=
bottom:7.5pt">=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0px 0cm; font-size: 12pt; font-fami=
ly: SimSun;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&qu=
ot;Verdana&quot;,sans-serif;color:black"><a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hot=
mail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">li_zhenqiang@h=
otmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div></div></blockquote>=0A=
</body></html>=

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:44:54 -0700
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To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org,  IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>, Yali Wang <wangyali11@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Roman,
I hope this note finds you well.
We've worked on addressing your DISCUSSes and the updates are in the
recently published version
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/>. I
much appreciate your feedback on these updates whether we've understood
your DISCUSSes and have addressed them.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:53 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Roman,
> thank you for your review, questions, and comments. Please find my answer=
s
> below tagged GIM>>.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM Roman Danyliw via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>> Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss
>>
>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
>> introductory paragraph, however.)
>>
>>
>> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.htm=
l
>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>>
>>
>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> DISCUSS:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> ** Section 4.2.  The Location TLV is explicitly trying to extract networ=
k
>> configuration information that would be elided by the first hop router
>> (MAC) or
>> a NAT (real IP address).  RFC8762 helpfully notes that =E2=80=9CWhen usi=
ng STAMP
>> over
>> the Internet =E2=80=A6 impact of the STAMP-Test packets MUST be thorough=
ly
>> analyzed.=E2=80=9D
>> Please provide a bit of text describing the privacy implications here (o=
r
>> bound
>> this with an applicability statement).
>>
> GIM>> You have a valid concern that the Location TLV provides information
> on the penultimate to the Session-Reflector router. We can recommend usin=
g
> the Location TLV either in the STAMP Authenticated mode or in combination
> with HMAC TLV. Would that address your concern?
>
>>
>> ** Section 4.8.  Is the key used for the HMAC TLV the same as the one in
>> the
>> HMAC in the STAMP authenticated packet?  Could one use different keys?
>>
> GIM>> From practical POV, an implementation may choose so that HMAC TLV
> will always use the same key as HMAC in the STAMP base packet. But that i=
s
> not required as the document leaves the key management outside its scope =
by
> way of reference to Section 4.4 RFC 8762.
>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>> COMMENT:
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Thank you for responding to the SECDIR review (and thank you to Charlie
>> Kaufman
>> for doing it).
>>
>> ** Section 4.6.  Per the =E2=80=9CID (Access ID)=E2=80=9D, I was a surpr=
ised that the
>> values
>> are hard-coded as this complicates future extensibility (e.g., providing
>> further fidelity into the type =E2=80=9Cnon-3gpp network=E2=80=9D used).=
  Perhaps this was
>> intentional to meet the PMF component of TS23501?
>>
> GIM>> Indeed, it is how 3GPP defined the PMF. From its POV, any network,
> 3GPP or Non-3GPP of any kind, that connects to 5GNC uses the same
> interfaces and APIs as 3GPP. But that doesn't say that 3GPP may decide to
> use other IDs in the future.
>
>>
>> ** Section 4.8.  This mechanism like, RFC8762, does not provide for
>> algorithm
>> agility.  As RFC8762 at least says =E2=80=9CFuture specifications may de=
fine the
>> use of
>> other, more advanced cryptographic algorithms, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D it wou=
ld be useful to
>> say
>> that this TLV is anticipated to track updates in the base STAMP protocol=
.
>>
> GIM>> Agree. Below is the proposed update:
> OLD TEXT:
>    As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
>    distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
>    fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.
> NEW TEXT:
>     As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
>    distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
>    fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.  HMAC TLV is anticipated
>    to track updates in the base STAMP protocol [RFC8762], including the
>    use of more advanced cryptographic algorithms.
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Roman,<div>I hope this note finds you well.</div><div>W=
e&#39;ve worked on addressing your DISCUSSes and the updates are in <a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/">the=
 recently published version</a>. I much appreciate your feedback on these u=
pdates whether we&#39;ve understood your DISCUSSes and have addressed them.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Jul 14, 2020=
 at 4:53 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregim=
irsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" s=
tyle=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Roman,<div>thank you fo=
r your review, questions, and comments. Please find my answers below tagged=
 GIM&gt;&gt;.=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><=
/div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">O=
n Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM Roman Danyliw via Datatracker &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px =
0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Roman Danyli=
w has entered the following ballot position for<br>
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s=
tatement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tl=
v/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d=
raft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
** Section 4.2.=C2=A0 The Location TLV is explicitly trying to extract netw=
ork<br>
configuration information that would be elided by the first hop router (MAC=
) or<br>
a NAT (real IP address).=C2=A0 RFC8762 helpfully notes that =E2=80=9CWhen u=
sing STAMP over<br>
the Internet =E2=80=A6 impact of the STAMP-Test packets MUST be thoroughly =
analyzed.=E2=80=9D <br>
Please provide a bit of text describing the privacy implications here (or b=
ound<br>
this with an applicability statement).<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; You=
 have a valid concern that the Location TLV provides information on the pen=
ultimate to the Session-Reflector router. We can recommend using the Locati=
on TLV either in the STAMP Authenticated mode or in combination with HMAC T=
LV. Would that address your concern?</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote"=
 style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);p=
adding-left:1ex">
<br>
** Section 4.8.=C2=A0 Is the key used for the HMAC TLV the same as the one =
in the<br>
HMAC in the STAMP authenticated packet?=C2=A0 Could one use different keys?=
<br></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; From practical POV, an implementation may=
 choose so that HMAC TLV will always use the same key as HMAC in the STAMP =
base packet. But that is not required as the document leaves the key manage=
ment outside its scope by way of reference to Section 4.4 RFC 8762.=C2=A0</=
div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bor=
der-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Thank you for responding to the SECDIR review (and thank you to Charlie Kau=
fman<br>
for doing it).<br>
<br>
** Section 4.6.=C2=A0 Per the =E2=80=9CID (Access ID)=E2=80=9D, I was a sur=
prised that the values<br>
are hard-coded as this complicates future extensibility (e.g., providing<br=
>
further fidelity into the type =E2=80=9Cnon-3gpp network=E2=80=9D used).=C2=
=A0 Perhaps this was<br>
intentional to meet the PMF component of TS23501?<br></blockquote><div>GIM&=
gt;&gt; Indeed, it is how 3GPP defined the PMF. From its POV, any network, =
3GPP or Non-3GPP of any kind, that connects to 5GNC uses the same interface=
s and APIs as 3GPP. But that doesn&#39;t say that 3GPP may decide to use ot=
her IDs in the future.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"marg=
in:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1e=
x">
<br>
** Section 4.8.=C2=A0 This mechanism like, RFC8762, does not provide for al=
gorithm<br>
agility.=C2=A0 As RFC8762 at least says =E2=80=9CFuture specifications may =
define the use of<br>
other, more advanced cryptographic algorithms, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D it would =
be useful to say<br>
that this TLV is anticipated to track updates in the base STAMP protocol.<b=
r></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; Agree. Below is the proposed update:</div><=
div>OLD TEXT:</div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SH=
A-256 truncated to 128<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All consider=
ations regarding using the key and key<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and man=
agement listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are<br><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully a=
pplicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.</div><div>NEW TEXT:</div><div>=C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128</d=
iv>=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerations regarding using =
the key and key<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and management listed in Secti=
on 4.4 of [RFC8762] are<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully applicable to the use of the =
HMAC TLV.=C2=A0 HMAC TLV is anticipated<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0to track updates in=
 the base STAMP protocol [RFC8762], including the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0use of mo=
re advanced cryptographic algorithms.=C2=A0</div></div>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000f71bcf05ad3f668f--


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 19 Aug 2020 11:49:57 -0700
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Ben,
I hope this note finds you well.
I much appreciate the suggestions you've kindly shared in the course of our
discussion. All the updates have been applied and the new version
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/> of the
document has been published. Could you please review the changes and let me
know whether your DISCUSSes have been addressed?

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:24 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ben,
> thank you for the clarifications and suggested text that improves the
> document. Please find my answers and notes below tagged GIM2>>.
> Attached is the new working version and its diff to -07 (including the
> new Location TLV section).
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> PS. I've clipped the COMMENTS as these now have the discussion thread
> of their own.
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 7:48 PM Benjamin Kaduk <kaduk@mit.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Hi Greg,
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 05:38:08PM -0700, Greg Mirsky wrote:
> > > Hi Benjamin,
> > > thank you for your thorough review and insightful comments (and
> DISCUSSes,
> > > of course).
> > > I hope it will be okay if I start with addressing DISCUSSes and split
> > > comments resolution into a separate thread(s).
> >
> > Of course!
> >
> > > Hence, I've added my answers and notes in-line under tag GIM>>.
> > >
> > > Regards,
> > > Greg
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 7:30 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker <
> > > noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
> > > > draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss
> > > >
> > > > When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> > > > email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut
> this
> > > > introductory paragraph, however.)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please refer to
> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> > > > for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > DISCUSS:
> > > >
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > >
> > > > I support Roman's discusses and am happy to see the ongoing
> discussion
> > > > thereof.
> > > >
> > > > (1) I think there's a conflict between this document and RFC 8762
> with
> > > > respect to the behavior of pure RFC 8762 implementations that receive
> > > > packets longer than the base packet for the given operational mode.
> > > >
> > > > RFC 8762 says (Section 4.3):
> > > >
> > > > % The Session-Reflector receives the STAMP-Test packet and verifies
> it. If
> > > > % the base STAMP-Test packet is validated, the Session-Reflector that
> > > > % supports this specification prepares and transmits the reflected
> test
> > > > % packet symmetric to the packet received from the Session-Sender
> copying
> > > > % the content beyond the size of the base STAMP packet (see Section
> 4.2).
> > > >
> > > > But Section 4 of this document says:
> > > >
> > > >                                                    A
> Session-Reflector
> > > >    that does not support STAMP extensions is not expected to compare
> the
> > > >    value in the Length field of the UDP header and the length of the
> > > >    STAMP base packet.  Hence the Session-Reflector will transmit the
> > > >    base STAMP packet.  [...]
> > > >
> > > > Does "will transmit the base STAMP packet" mean something other than
> > > > "with the exact length of the base packet [for the given operational
> > > > mode]"?
> > > >
> > > GIM>> Thank you for pointing out the text in RFC 8672. I agree that
> text in
> > > the draft requires re-work. Would the following update make it
> consistent
> > > with RFC 8762 (I will accept your suggestion to change the use of the U
> > > flag so that the Session-Sender sets it to 1 on the transmission. Thus
> if
> > > the Session-Sender receives a TLV flag set to 1 in the reflected
> packet it
> > > MUST skip the TLV):
> > > OLD TEXT:
> > >    A Session-Reflector
> > >    that does not support STAMP extensions is not expected to compare
> the
> > >    value in the Length field of the UDP header and the length of the
> > >    STAMP base packet.  Hence the Session-Reflector will transmit the
> > >    base STAMP packet.  It is the local policy on the Session-Sender
> > >    (similar to the handling of SSID == 0 scenario described in
> > >    Section 3) that will control the sender's behavior.
> > > NEW TEXT:
> > >    A Session-Reflector
> > >    that does not support STAMP extensions will not process but copy
> them
> > >    into the reflected packet, as defined in Section 4.3 [RFC8762].  The
> > >    Session-Sender receives unprocessed TLV indicated by the U flag
> being
> > >    set to 1.
> >
> > This should make us consistent with RFC 8762, yes.  I think it might be
> > worth reminding the reader that the Session-Sender will know if it is
> > talking to a Session-Reflector that does not support STAMP extensions,
> > because such Session-Reflectors will send a zeroed SSID, though I guess
> > that behavior is already mentioned a couple sentences later, so maybe it
> > would be redundant here.
> >
> > I'd suggest rewording the last sentence (of the new text) to someething
> > like "a Session-Sender that supports TLVs will indicate specific TLVs
> that
> > it did not process by setting the U flag to 1 in those TLVs", to help
> > reinforce that the U flag will only be set by a Session-Reflector that
> > supports extensions/this document at all.
>
> GIM2>> Thank you for the suggested text Accepted and it reads as:
> NEW TEXT:
>    A Session-Reflector
>    that does not support STAMP extensions will not process but copy them
>    into the reflected packet, as defined in Section 4.3 [RFC8762].  A
>    Session-Reflector that supports TLVs will indicate specific TLVs
>    that it did not process by setting the U flag to 1 in those TLVs.
> >
> > > >
> > > > (2) As I remarked on (then-) draft-ietf-ippm-stamp, I think we need
> to
> > > > require some level of cryptographic protection whenever control
> > > > information is included in a Session-Sender's test packet.  That is,
> > > > that a Session-Reflector MUST NOT act on control information
> received in
> > > > unauthenticated packets, and specifically, that the HMAC TLV must be
> > > > used, since the base authenticated STAMP packet's HMAC does not cover
> > > > the options.
> > > >
> > > GIM>> The use of the HMAC TLV is required in the authenticated mode
> STAMP:
> > >    The keyed Hashed
> > >    Message Authentication Code (HMAC) TLV MUST be included in a STAMP
> > >    test packet in the authenticated mode, excluding the case where the
> > >    only TLV present is the Extra Padding TLV.
> > > We can require that in unauthenticated STAMP mode some TLVs be
> accompanied
> > > by the HMAC TLV. Would mitigate the exposure of the Session-Reflector?
> > > Which TLVs, in your opinion, require such a requirement?
> GIM2>> I have some reservations to say that a particular TLV MUST be
> accompanied by the HMAC TLV. If a domain secured, an operator may use
> a TLV, e.g., CoS TLV, without authentication. I think that the current
> text:
>    The HMAC TLV MAY be used to protect the integrity of STAMP extensions
>    in STAMP unauthenticated mode.
> can be expanded to require that an implementation can enable
> authentication of extensions via the management plane. It might be as:
> NEW TEXT:
>    The HMAC TLV MAY be used to protect the integrity of STAMP extensions
>    in STAMP unauthenticated mode.  An implementation of STAMP extensions
>    MUST provide controls to enable the integrity protection of STAMP
>    extensions in STAMP unauthenticated mode.
> Would the updated text be acceptable?
>
>
> >
> > I think the idea was to require the HMAC TLV to accompany those TLVs that
> > represent "control information", yes.  My initial read of the document
> > (reflected in my longer comments) says that the Location and Timestamp
> > Information TLVs would be considered to contain such "control
> information",
> > though on reread perhaps the Timestamp Information is not always
> considered
> > sensitive.  I'm on the fence about Location, and I think that Class of
> > Service is pretty clearly on the "control information" side of things
> > (since it affects the headers of the containing IP packet and
> consequently
> > the behavior of the network).
>
> GIM2>> I agree that CoS is very close to what we consider "control
> information" as it includes information that affects how the reflected
> test packet is transmitted. But as in RFC 8762 itself, HMAC TLV is
> defined as optional in STAMP unauthenticated mode and, as I think of
> it, that leaves the choice to an operator whether to protect the
> integrity of the CoS TLV or not. Do you think that such arrangement is
> acceptable?
>
> >
> > > >
> > > > (3) The secdir reviewer's question about dealing with 6-to-4 gateways
> > > > seems to have not gotten a response.  Specifically, the requirement
> that
> > > > "[t]he Session-Reflector MUST validate the Length value against the
> > > > address family of the transport encapsulating the STAMP test packet"
> > > > seems to require the protocol to fail when sender and reflector use
> > > > different address families, or perhaps to require the sender to use
> > > > trial and error to determine which address family is used by the
> > > > reflector.  Some clarification on the intended operation in such
> > > > scenarios seems appropriate.
> > > >
> > > GIM>> I've misunderstood the question and thank you for clarifying the
> > > scenario. I now see that IP addresses in the Location TLV must allow
> > > explicit signaling of the address family while providing space for
> IPv6.
> > > So, we introduce sub-TLVs and a new sub-registry for IANA. Does that
> sound
> > > reasonable? I'll work on details if you agree with the proposed
> approach.
> >
> > That sounds like it would work.
> >
> > > >
> > > > (4) The ability for a Session-Sender to (MUST-level!) control the
> DSCP
> > > > codepoint used by packets generated by a Session-Reflector feels
> like it
> > > > opens up significant risk in site-local (security-relevant) policy.
> That
> > > > is, the interpretation of the DSCP codepoints is to large extent
> > > > site-specific, and allowing a nominally external system to set
> any/all
> > > > possible values, without a chance for site policy to be applied and
> > > > block the use of potentially disruptive DSCP values.  So I think we
> need
> > > > to modify the "MUST set", perhaps requiring that either the requested
> > > > DSCP value is used or the entire TLV/packet/whatever is rejected.
> > > >
> > > GIM>> Perhaps we can add a note in the security section that an
> > > implementation must control the support of each TLV. In other words, a
> > > particular TLV can be disabled for the given test session.
> Alternatively,
> > > the CoS TLV might require the use of the HMAC TLV. I think that the
> first
> > > option is sufficient. What do you think? Or would you suggest an
> entirely
> > > different approach?
> >
> > I think my previous replies here combine to say that use of the CoS TLV
> > should require ues of the HMAC TLV, but I think it's also good to let an
> > implementation control the support for each TLV as you propose.  My
> > intuition is still saying that a separate local policy filter should be
> > available, though -- just because the peer is authenticated does not
> > inherently grant them privilege to set arbitrary DSCP values.  In some
> > sense this is the classic distinction between authentication and
> > authorization.  In some networks, setting some DSCP values might require
> > more privilege than setting other such values, and the simple
> > "authenticated or not" knob provided by the HMAC TLV doesn't allow us to
> > express that distinction.  (I'm thinking about scenarios where setting a
> > particular DSCP value privileges the enclosed packet to such a degree
> that
> > other traffic on the network suffers significantly as a result -- a "drop
> > everything and move this packet!" bit, if you will.)
> GIM2>> Yes, I agree that the CoS TLV might become another loaded gun
> ith which an operator shoots himself/herself in the foot. Well, one
> more in a large arsenal we've provided them over the years. I envision
> that the CoS TLV might be very useful during the service activation
> testing and then exercising that "drop everything and move this
> packet!" marking seems reasonable. On the other hand, using the same
> marking as part of in-service testing requires analysis and
> consideration. Do you think that additional text to explain the
> possible impact of CoS TLV on the production network is needed?
> >
> > > >
> > > > (5) If we're not going to remedy the severability of authenticated
> > > > options from authenticated base packets (which would be my preferred
> > > > resolution), we need to document that weakness in the security
> > > > considerations.
> > > >
> > > GIM>> I think that the document does require HMAC TLV is used in the
> > > authenticated mode.  Please see my comments to DISCUSS #2. Would you
> agree?
> >
> > I think my point didn't make it through properly, sorry.
> >
> > The issue is not that we need to authenticate both the "base part" and
> the
> > "extensions part", but rather that we need a way to say that "base part
> of
> > packet 1" and "extensions part of packet 1" go together.  Right now, with
> > two separate HMACs, the Session-Reflector would happily process a packet
> > that has "base part of packet 1" and "extensions part of packet 2" and
> not
> > even notice that anything was wrong.  (A similar thing could be done to
> > responses processed at the Session-Sender, of course.)  That is, I can
> > freely "mix and match" authenticated base parts and authenticated
> > extensions parts (as an on-path attacker).  Including as input to one of
> > the HMAC calls a unique value from the other part of the packet will be
> > enough to tie the two together, and let the recipient detect the
> > modification.  The most promising candidates for such a "unique
> per-packet
> > value" would be the HMAC output itself and the packet sequence number.
> > Using the HMAC value itself is a more robust cryptographic construction
> (in
> > that it authenticates the entire other part by reference), but I suspect
> > that we'll have to use the sequence number due to implementation
> > (performance) concerns -- needing to wait for the first HMAC before
> > extensions can be finalized seems like it would introduce unwanted delay
> in
> > the timestamping.  Assuming that implementations actually check the
> > sequence number for repeats, that should still provide enough protection.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Ben
> >
> > > >
> > > >
>

--000000000000091cb905ad3f79c1
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Ben,<div>I hope this note finds you well.</div><div>I m=
uch appreciate the suggestions you&#39;ve kindly shared in the course of ou=
r discussion. All the updates have been applied and<a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/"> the new version</a>=
 of the document has been published. Could you please review the changes an=
d let me know whether your DISCUSSes have been addressed?</div><div><br></d=
iv><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><=
div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Wed, Jul 22, 2020 at 3:24 PM Greg M=
irsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a=
>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">Hi =
Ben,<br>
thank you for the clarifications and suggested text that improves the<br>
document. Please find my answers and notes below tagged GIM2&gt;&gt;.<br>
Attached is the new working version and its diff to -07 (including the<br>
new Location TLV section).<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Greg<br>
<br>
PS. I&#39;ve clipped the COMMENTS as these now have the discussion thread<b=
r>
of their own.<br>
<br>
On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 7:48 PM Benjamin Kaduk &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:kaduk@=
mit.edu" target=3D"_blank">kaduk@mit.edu</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Greg,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; On Thu, Jul 16, 2020 at 05:38:08PM -0700, Greg Mirsky wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt; Hi Benjamin,<br>
&gt; &gt; thank you for your thorough review and insightful comments (and D=
ISCUSSes,<br>
&gt; &gt; of course).<br>
&gt; &gt; I hope it will be okay if I start with addressing DISCUSSes and s=
plit<br>
&gt; &gt; comments resolution into a separate thread(s).<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Of course!<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Hence, I&#39;ve added my answers and notes in-line under tag GIM&=
gt;&gt;.<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; Regards,<br>
&gt; &gt; Greg<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 7:30 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker &l=
t;<br>
&gt; &gt; <a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">noreply@iet=
f.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for=
<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; When responding, please keep the subject line intact and rep=
ly to all<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free =
to cut this<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/stateme=
nt/discuss-criteria.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.=
ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT position=
s.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; The document, along with other ballot positions, can be foun=
d here:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-=
stamp-option-tlv/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker=
.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/</a><br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; ------------------------------------------------------------=
----------<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; DISCUSS:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; ------------------------------------------------------------=
----------<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; I support Roman&#39;s discusses and am happy to see the ongo=
ing discussion<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; thereof.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; (1) I think there&#39;s a conflict between this document and=
 RFC 8762 with<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; respect to the behavior of pure RFC 8762 implementations tha=
t receive<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; packets longer than the base packet for the given operationa=
l mode.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; RFC 8762 says (Section 4.3):<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; % The Session-Reflector receives the STAMP-Test packet and v=
erifies it. If<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; % the base STAMP-Test packet is validated, the Session-Refle=
ctor that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; % supports this specification prepares and transmits the ref=
lected test<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; % packet symmetric to the packet received from the Session-S=
ender copying<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; % the content beyond the size of the base STAMP packet (see =
Section 4.2).<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; But Section 4 of this document says:<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 A Session-Reflector<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that does not support STAMP extensions is not e=
xpected to compare the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 value in the Length field of the UDP header and=
 the length of the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 STAMP base packet.=C2=A0 Hence the Session-Refl=
ector will transmit the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base STAMP packet.=C2=A0 [...]<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; Does &quot;will transmit the base STAMP packet&quot; mean so=
mething other than<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &quot;with the exact length of the base packet [for the give=
n operational<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; mode]&quot;?<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you for pointing out the text in RFC 8672. I ag=
ree that text in<br>
&gt; &gt; the draft requires re-work. Would the following update make it co=
nsistent<br>
&gt; &gt; with RFC 8762 (I will accept your suggestion to change the use of=
 the U<br>
&gt; &gt; flag so that the Session-Sender sets it to 1 on the transmission.=
 Thus if<br>
&gt; &gt; the Session-Sender receives a TLV flag set to 1 in the reflected =
packet it<br>
&gt; &gt; MUST skip the TLV):<br>
&gt; &gt; OLD TEXT:<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A Session-Reflector<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that does not support STAMP extensions is not expect=
ed to compare the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 value in the Length field of the UDP header and the =
length of the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 STAMP base packet.=C2=A0 Hence the Session-Reflector=
 will transmit the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 base STAMP packet.=C2=A0 It is the local policy on t=
he Session-Sender<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 (similar to the handling of SSID =3D=3D 0 scenario d=
escribed in<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Section 3) that will control the sender&#39;s behavi=
or.<br>
&gt; &gt; NEW TEXT:<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 A Session-Reflector<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 that does not support STAMP extensions will not proc=
ess but copy them<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 into the reflected packet, as defined in Section 4.3=
 [RFC8762].=C2=A0 The<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Session-Sender receives unprocessed TLV indicated by=
 the U flag being<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 set to 1.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; This should make us consistent with RFC 8762, yes.=C2=A0 I think it mi=
ght be<br>
&gt; worth reminding the reader that the Session-Sender will know if it is<=
br>
&gt; talking to a Session-Reflector that does not support STAMP extensions,=
<br>
&gt; because such Session-Reflectors will send a zeroed SSID, though I gues=
s<br>
&gt; that behavior is already mentioned a couple sentences later, so maybe =
it<br>
&gt; would be redundant here.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I&#39;d suggest rewording the last sentence (of the new text) to somee=
thing<br>
&gt; like &quot;a Session-Sender that supports TLVs will indicate specific =
TLVs that<br>
&gt; it did not process by setting the U flag to 1 in those TLVs&quot;, to =
help<br>
&gt; reinforce that the U flag will only be set by a Session-Reflector that=
<br>
&gt; supports extensions/this document at all.<br>
<br>
GIM2&gt;&gt; Thank you for the suggested text Accepted and it reads as:<br>
NEW TEXT:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Session-Reflector<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that does not support STAMP extensions will not process but co=
py them<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0into the reflected packet, as defined in Section 4.3 [RFC8762]=
.=C2=A0 A<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Reflector that supports TLVs will indicate specific TL=
Vs<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0that it did not process by setting the U flag to 1 in those TL=
Vs.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; (2) As I remarked on (then-) draft-ietf-ippm-stamp, I think =
we need to<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; require some level of cryptographic protection whenever cont=
rol<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; information is included in a Session-Sender&#39;s test packe=
t.=C2=A0 That is,<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; that a Session-Reflector MUST NOT act on control information=
 received in<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; unauthenticated packets, and specifically, that the HMAC TLV=
 must be<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; used, since the base authenticated STAMP packet&#39;s HMAC d=
oes not cover<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; the options.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; GIM&gt;&gt; The use of the HMAC TLV is required in the authentica=
ted mode STAMP:<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 The keyed Hashed<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Message Authentication Code (HMAC) TLV MUST be inclu=
ded in a STAMP<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 test packet in the authenticated mode, excluding the=
 case where the<br>
&gt; &gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 only TLV present is the Extra Padding TLV.<br>
&gt; &gt; We can require that in unauthenticated STAMP mode some TLVs be ac=
companied<br>
&gt; &gt; by the HMAC TLV. Would mitigate the exposure of the Session-Refle=
ctor?<br>
&gt; &gt; Which TLVs, in your opinion, require such a requirement?<br>
GIM2&gt;&gt; I have some reservations to say that a particular TLV MUST be<=
br>
accompanied by the HMAC TLV. If a domain secured, an operator may use<br>
a TLV, e.g., CoS TLV, without authentication. I think that the current<br>
text:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The HMAC TLV MAY be used to protect the integrity of STAMP ext=
ensions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in STAMP unauthenticated mode.<br>
can be expanded to require that an implementation can enable<br>
authentication of extensions via the management plane. It might be as:<br>
NEW TEXT:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0The HMAC TLV MAY be used to protect the integrity of STAMP ext=
ensions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in STAMP unauthenticated mode.=C2=A0 An implementation of STAM=
P extensions<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST provide controls to enable the integrity protection of ST=
AMP<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0extensions in STAMP unauthenticated mode.<br>
Would the updated text be acceptable?<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think the idea was to require the HMAC TLV to accompany those TLVs t=
hat<br>
&gt; represent &quot;control information&quot;, yes.=C2=A0 My initial read =
of the document<br>
&gt; (reflected in my longer comments) says that the Location and Timestamp=
<br>
&gt; Information TLVs would be considered to contain such &quot;control inf=
ormation&quot;,<br>
&gt; though on reread perhaps the Timestamp Information is not always consi=
dered<br>
&gt; sensitive.=C2=A0 I&#39;m on the fence about Location, and I think that=
 Class of<br>
&gt; Service is pretty clearly on the &quot;control information&quot; side =
of things<br>
&gt; (since it affects the headers of the containing IP packet and conseque=
ntly<br>
&gt; the behavior of the network).<br>
<br>
GIM2&gt;&gt; I agree that CoS is very close to what we consider &quot;contr=
ol<br>
information&quot; as it includes information that affects how the reflected=
<br>
test packet is transmitted. But as in RFC 8762 itself, HMAC TLV is<br>
defined as optional in STAMP unauthenticated mode and, as I think of<br>
it, that leaves the choice to an operator whether to protect the<br>
integrity of the CoS TLV or not. Do you think that such arrangement is<br>
acceptable?<br>
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; (3) The secdir reviewer&#39;s question about dealing with 6-=
to-4 gateways<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; seems to have not gotten a response.=C2=A0 Specifically, the=
 requirement that<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; &quot;[t]he Session-Reflector MUST validate the Length value=
 against the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; address family of the transport encapsulating the STAMP test=
 packet&quot;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; seems to require the protocol to fail when sender and reflec=
tor use<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; different address families, or perhaps to require the sender=
 to use<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; trial and error to determine which address family is used by=
 the<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; reflector.=C2=A0 Some clarification on the intended operatio=
n in such<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; scenarios seems appropriate.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; GIM&gt;&gt; I&#39;ve misunderstood the question and thank you for=
 clarifying the<br>
&gt; &gt; scenario. I now see that IP addresses in the Location TLV must al=
low<br>
&gt; &gt; explicit signaling of the address family while providing space fo=
r IPv6.<br>
&gt; &gt; So, we introduce sub-TLVs and a new sub-registry for IANA. Does t=
hat sound<br>
&gt; &gt; reasonable? I&#39;ll work on details if you agree with the propos=
ed approach.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; That sounds like it would work.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; (4) The ability for a Session-Sender to (MUST-level!) contro=
l the DSCP<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; codepoint used by packets generated by a Session-Reflector f=
eels like it<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; opens up significant risk in site-local (security-relevant) =
policy.=C2=A0 That<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; is, the interpretation of the DSCP codepoints is to large ex=
tent<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; site-specific, and allowing a nominally external system to s=
et any/all<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; possible values, without a chance for site policy to be appl=
ied and<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; block the use of potentially disruptive DSCP values.=C2=A0 S=
o I think we need<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; to modify the &quot;MUST set&quot;, perhaps requiring that e=
ither the requested<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; DSCP value is used or the entire TLV/packet/whatever is reje=
cted.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; GIM&gt;&gt; Perhaps we can add a note in the security section tha=
t an<br>
&gt; &gt; implementation must control the support of each TLV. In other wor=
ds, a<br>
&gt; &gt; particular TLV can be disabled for the given test session. Altern=
atively,<br>
&gt; &gt; the CoS TLV might require the use of the HMAC TLV. I think that t=
he first<br>
&gt; &gt; option is sufficient. What do you think? Or would you suggest an =
entirely<br>
&gt; &gt; different approach?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think my previous replies here combine to say that use of the CoS TL=
V<br>
&gt; should require ues of the HMAC TLV, but I think it&#39;s also good to =
let an<br>
&gt; implementation control the support for each TLV as you propose.=C2=A0 =
My<br>
&gt; intuition is still saying that a separate local policy filter should b=
e<br>
&gt; available, though -- just because the peer is authenticated does not<b=
r>
&gt; inherently grant them privilege to set arbitrary DSCP values.=C2=A0 In=
 some<br>
&gt; sense this is the classic distinction between authentication and<br>
&gt; authorization.=C2=A0 In some networks, setting some DSCP values might =
require<br>
&gt; more privilege than setting other such values, and the simple<br>
&gt; &quot;authenticated or not&quot; knob provided by the HMAC TLV doesn&#=
39;t allow us to<br>
&gt; express that distinction.=C2=A0 (I&#39;m thinking about scenarios wher=
e setting a<br>
&gt; particular DSCP value privileges the enclosed packet to such a degree =
that<br>
&gt; other traffic on the network suffers significantly as a result -- a &q=
uot;drop<br>
&gt; everything and move this packet!&quot; bit, if you will.)<br>
GIM2&gt;&gt; Yes, I agree that the CoS TLV might become another loaded gun<=
br>
ith which an operator shoots himself/herself in the foot. Well, one<br>
more in a large arsenal we&#39;ve provided them over the years. I envision<=
br>
that the CoS TLV might be very useful during the service activation<br>
testing and then exercising that &quot;drop everything and move this<br>
packet!&quot; marking seems reasonable. On the other hand, using the same<b=
r>
marking as part of in-service testing requires analysis and<br>
consideration. Do you think that additional text to explain the<br>
possible impact of CoS TLV on the production network is needed?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; (5) If we&#39;re not going to remedy the severability of aut=
henticated<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; options from authenticated base packets (which would be my p=
referred<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; resolution), we need to document that weakness in the securi=
ty<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt; considerations.<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; GIM&gt;&gt; I think that the document does require HMAC TLV is us=
ed in the<br>
&gt; &gt; authenticated mode.=C2=A0 Please see my comments to DISCUSS #2. W=
ould you agree?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think my point didn&#39;t make it through properly, sorry.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; The issue is not that we need to authenticate both the &quot;base part=
&quot; and the<br>
&gt; &quot;extensions part&quot;, but rather that we need a way to say that=
 &quot;base part of<br>
&gt; packet 1&quot; and &quot;extensions part of packet 1&quot; go together=
.=C2=A0 Right now, with<br>
&gt; two separate HMACs, the Session-Reflector would happily process a pack=
et<br>
&gt; that has &quot;base part of packet 1&quot; and &quot;extensions part o=
f packet 2&quot; and not<br>
&gt; even notice that anything was wrong.=C2=A0 (A similar thing could be d=
one to<br>
&gt; responses processed at the Session-Sender, of course.)=C2=A0 That is, =
I can<br>
&gt; freely &quot;mix and match&quot; authenticated base parts and authenti=
cated<br>
&gt; extensions parts (as an on-path attacker).=C2=A0 Including as input to=
 one of<br>
&gt; the HMAC calls a unique value from the other part of the packet will b=
e<br>
&gt; enough to tie the two together, and let the recipient detect the<br>
&gt; modification.=C2=A0 The most promising candidates for such a &quot;uni=
que per-packet<br>
&gt; value&quot; would be the HMAC output itself and the packet sequence nu=
mber.<br>
&gt; Using the HMAC value itself is a more robust cryptographic constructio=
n (in<br>
&gt; that it authenticates the entire other part by reference), but I suspe=
ct<br>
&gt; that we&#39;ll have to use the sequence number due to implementation<b=
r>
&gt; (performance) concerns -- needing to wait for the first HMAC before<br=
>
&gt; extensions can be finalized seems like it would introduce unwanted del=
ay in<br>
&gt; the timestamping.=C2=A0 Assuming that implementations actually check t=
he<br>
&gt; sequence number for repeats, that should still provide enough protecti=
on.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Ben<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
&gt; &gt; &gt;<br>
</blockquote></div>

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Subject: [ippm] Warren Kumari's No Objection on draft-ietf-ippm-route-10: (with COMMENT)
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Warren Kumari has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-route-10: No Objection

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Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-route/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for addressing my DISCUSS.

Questions / Comments:
1: "Although primarily intended for hosts communicating on the Internet
   with IP, the definitions and metrics are constructed to be applicable
   to other network domains, if desired."
This above says "with IP", but then the rest implies it works with other things
too - I suggest dropping the "with IP" part, unless this does work with other
protocols?

2: "  Also, to specify a framework for active methods of measurement which
   use the techniques described in [PT] at a minimum, and a framework
   for hybrid active-passive methods of measurement, such as the Hybrid
   Type I method [RFC7799] described in
   [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data](intended only for single administrative
   domains), which do not rely on ICMP and provide a protocol for
   explicit interrogation of nodes on a path."
This is a really long / hard to read sentence - can you split it into multiple?
I had to read it multiple time and am still having a hard time with the nested
clauses. Perhaps: "This also specifies a framework for active methods of
measurement which uses the techniques described in [PT], as well as a framework
for hybrid active-passive methods of measurement(such as the Hybrid Type I
method [RFC7799])."

3: " Node Identity  The unique address for Nodes communicating within the
      network domain.  For Nodes communicating on the Internet with IP,
      it is the globally routable IP address(es) which the Node uses
      when communicating with other Nodes under normal or error
      conditions. "
I'm not sure I understand -- this says the "unique address" and also "IP
address(es)" - it cannot be both singular/unique and multiple. This definition
needs clarification or a pointer to later in the document.

4: "Cooperating Node  Nodes that MUST respond to direct queries for their
      Node identity as part of a previously agreed and established
      interrogation protocol. "
I don't think that the "MUST" works here -- I think s/MUST/do/ (or s/MUST//).

5: "   Hop  A Hop MUST contain a Node Identity, and MAY contain arrival and/
      or departure interface identification, round trip delay, and an
      arrival timestamp." - this definition also doesn't really seem to define
      something, and I think needs to be rewritten or dropped.

6: "Routing Class  A route that treats equally a class C of different  types of
packets (unrelated to address classes of the past)". I think that it is really
unfortunate that the term "class C" was chosen for this - I understand that
there is a clarification, and don't really expect you to change it, but it
needlessly makes the document harder to read for people who naturally associate
Class A, B, C, D with classful addresses. I recognize that this terminology
comes from RFC2330, but it is till confusing. An additional clarification that
this term is being used because of history would probably help.

7: "Next define a *singleton* definition for a Hop on the path, with sufficient
indexes to identify all Hops identified in a measurement interval." I'm not
sure that "singleton" is a well understood term outside of software
engineering, and that you need to better explain it (esp because you have felt
it important enough to emphasize). Perhaps "data structure to uniquely identify
a hop" or similar?

8: "   o  If a pair of discovered Nodes identify two different addresses,
      then they will appear to be different Nodes.

   o  If a pair of discovered Nodes identify two different IP addresses,
      and the IP addresses resolve to the same Node name (in the DNS),
      then they will appear to be the same Nodes."
Please either include "IP" in both or neither of the above, otherwise it sounds
like it is a differentiating factor.

9: " UDP and TCP are used when a particular characteristic needs to
   be verified, such as filtering or traffic shaping on specific ports
   (i.e., services). "
TCP traceroute is also used when ICMP responses are not received - while "such
as filtering" *could* cover this, it would require squinting...

10: "Furthermore, either Paris-traceroute or
   Scamper is capable of unveiling the many available paths between a
   source and destination (which are visible to this method)."
Visible to *which* method? The one described in this doc? The methods
implemented in Paris-traceroute/Scamper?

Nits:

1: "1.1.  Issues with Earlier Work to define Route"
It seems that this is missing a word after "Route" - perhaps metric? Also, I
understand the Title Case, but please either drop it, or uppercase D in define.

2: "Paris-traceroute allows its users to measure RTD in every hop of the
   path for a particular flow."
s/measure RTD/measure the RTD/

3: You seem to be using multiple ways of adding emphasis (*something*, --from
the Observation Point --, etc). This is confusing / doesn't follow existing
style.




From nobody Thu Aug 20 14:52:14 2020
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Subject: [ippm] Protocol Action: 'Advanced Unidirectional Route Assessment (AURA)' to Proposed Standard (draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt)
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The IESG has approved the following document:
- 'Advanced Unidirectional Route Assessment (AURA)'
  (draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.txt) as Proposed Standard

This document is the product of the IP Performance Measurement Working Group.

The IESG contact persons are Martin Duke and Magnus Westerlund.

A URL of this Internet Draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-route/





Technical Summary

   This memo introduces an advanced unidirectional route assessment
   (AURA) metric and associated measurement methodology, based on the IP
   Performance Metrics (IPPM) Framework RFC 2330.  This memo updates RFC
   2330 in the areas of path-related terminology and path description,
   primarily to include the possibility of parallel subpaths between a
   given Source and Destination pair, owing to the presence of multi-
   path technologies.

Working Group Summary

The document has working group consensus to publish; there was no particular controversy during the WG process.

Document Quality

There are no known implementations. The WG spent about 2 years on this document.

Personnel

Brian Trammell is the document shepherd. Martin Duke is the responsible AD.

There are no IANA actions.




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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
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--_000_a9cd427d3ec244fda1158676f7633b47certorg_--


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In-Reply-To: <a9cd427d3ec244fda1158676f7633b47@cert.org>
From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 12:47:32 -0700
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To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org>,  IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>, Yali Wang <wangyali11@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Roman,
thank you for your quick response and kind consideration of the updates.
Would the following update address your concern about the scope of the
document in regard to the HMAC key management and distribution mechanisms:
OLD TEXT:
   As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
   bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
   distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
   fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.
NEW TEXT:
   As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
   bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key listed
   in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are fully applicable to the use of the
   HMAC TLV.  Key management and the mechanisms to distribute the HMAC
   key are outside the scope of this specification.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:14 PM Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> wrote:

> Hi Greg!
>
>
>
> Thanks the -08 update.  Per one of the DISCUSSes, could you please add a
> trivial scoping sentenced described below.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2020 2:45 PM
> *To:* Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
> *Cc:* The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org=
;
> IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>; Yali
> Wang <wangyali11@huawei.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> I hope this note finds you well.
>
> We've worked on addressing your DISCUSSes and the updates are in the
> recently published version
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/>. I
> much appreciate your feedback on these updates whether we've understood
> your DISCUSSes and have addressed them.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:53 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> thank you for your review, questions, and comments. Please find my answer=
s
> below tagged GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM Roman Danyliw via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ** Section 4.2.  The Location TLV is explicitly trying to extract network
> configuration information that would be elided by the first hop router
> (MAC) or
> a NAT (real IP address).  RFC8762 helpfully notes that =E2=80=9CWhen usin=
g STAMP
> over
> the Internet =E2=80=A6 impact of the STAMP-Test packets MUST be thoroughl=
y
> analyzed.=E2=80=9D
> Please provide a bit of text describing the privacy implications here (or
> bound
> this with an applicability statement).
>
> GIM>> You have a valid concern that the Location TLV provides information
> on the penultimate to the Session-Reflector router. We can recommend usin=
g
> the Location TLV either in the STAMP Authenticated mode or in combination
> with HMAC TLV. Would that address your concern?
>
>
>
> Thanks.  The additional concern I had in mind was the confidentiality of
> the network infrastructure information being sent in the clear over the
> Internet.  Again, this is case where Section 4.5 of RFC8762 already has t=
he
> right word (and you cite it in the Security Considerations generically).
> As a COMMENT, I would suggest you reiterate that guidance in particular f=
or
> this TLV because of the information it carries.
>
>
> ** Section 4.8.  Is the key used for the HMAC TLV the same as the one in
> the
> HMAC in the STAMP authenticated packet?  Could one use different keys?
>
> GIM>> From practical POV, an implementation may choose so that HMAC TLV
> will always use the same key as HMAC in the STAMP base packet. But that i=
s
> not required as the document leaves the key management outside its scope =
by
> way of reference to Section 4.4 RFC 8762.
>
>
> [Roman] The revised language is much clearer, thank you for adding it.  I
> would also ask that you repeat that the keying is out of scope.  My read =
of
> Section 4 of RFC8762 is that it provides guidance in the context of only
> the base specification.
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thank you for responding to the SECDIR review (and thank you to Charlie
> Kaufman
> for doing it).
>
> ** Section 4.6.  Per the =E2=80=9CID (Access ID)=E2=80=9D, I was a surpri=
sed that the
> values
> are hard-coded as this complicates future extensibility (e.g., providing
> further fidelity into the type =E2=80=9Cnon-3gpp network=E2=80=9D used). =
 Perhaps this was
> intentional to meet the PMF component of TS23501?
>
> GIM>> Indeed, it is how 3GPP defined the PMF. From its POV, any network,
> 3GPP or Non-3GPP of any kind, that connects to 5GNC uses the same
> interfaces and APIs as 3GPP. But that doesn't say that 3GPP may decide to
> use other IDs in the future.
>
>
>
> [Roman] Understood.  Thanks for explaining.
>
>
> ** Section 4.8.  This mechanism like, RFC8762, does not provide for
> algorithm
> agility.  As RFC8762 at least says =E2=80=9CFuture specifications may def=
ine the
> use of
> other, more advanced cryptographic algorithms, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D it woul=
d be useful to say
> that this TLV is anticipated to track updates in the base STAMP protocol.
>
> GIM>> Agree. Below is the proposed update:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
>    distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
>
>    fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>     As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
>    distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
>    fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.  HMAC TLV is anticipated
>    to track updates in the base STAMP protocol [RFC8762], including the
>    use of more advanced cryptographic algorithms.
>
>
>
> [Roman] Makes sense.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Roman,<div>thank you for your quick response and kind c=
onsideration of the updates. Would the following update address your concer=
n about the scope of the document in regard to the HMAC key management and =
distribution mechanisms:</div><div>OLD TEXT:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0As defi=
ned in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0=
bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerations regarding using the key and key<=
br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC87=
62] are<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.<br></d=
iv><div>NEW TEXT:</div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP use=
s HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All=
 considerations regarding using the key listed<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0in Section 4=
.4 of [RFC8762] are fully applicable to the use of the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0HMAC=
 TLV.=C2=A0 Key management and the mechanisms to distribute the HMAC<br>=C2=
=A0 =C2=A0key are outside the scope of this specification.<br></div><div><b=
r></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:14 PM =
Roman Danyliw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0=
.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_3274291584328843759WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks the -08 update.=C2=A0 Per one of the DISCUSSe=
s, could you please add a trivial scoping sentenced described below.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roman<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 19, 2020 2:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman Danyliw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
iesg@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org</a>; I=
PPM Chairs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ip=
pm-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;; IETF IPPM WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Yali Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:wangyali11@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">wangyali11@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Roman Danyliw&#39;s Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-op=
tion-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Roman,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I hope this note finds you well.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#39;ve worked on addressing your DISCUSSes and th=
e updates are in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tl=
v/" target=3D"_blank">the recently published version</a>. I much appreciate=
 your feedback on these updates whether we&#39;ve understood your DISCUSSes=
 and have addressed them.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:53 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Roman,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your review, questions, and comments. =
Please find my answers below tagged GIM&gt;&gt;.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM Roman Danyliw via D=
atatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">norepl=
y@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot posit=
ion for<br>
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tl=
v/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stam=
p-option-tlv/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
** Section 4.2.=C2=A0 The Location TLV is explicitly trying to extract netw=
ork<br>
configuration information that would be elided by the first hop router (MAC=
) or<br>
a NAT (real IP address).=C2=A0 RFC8762 helpfully notes that =E2=80=9CWhen u=
sing STAMP over<br>
the Internet =E2=80=A6 impact of the STAMP-Test packets MUST be thoroughly =
analyzed.=E2=80=9D <br>
Please provide a bit of text describing the privacy implications here (or b=
ound<br>
this with an applicability statement).<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; You have a valid concern that the Locati=
on TLV provides information on the penultimate to the Session-Reflector rou=
ter. We can recommend using the Location TLV either in the STAMP Authentica=
ted mode or in combination with HMAC TLV.
 Would that address your concern?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.=C2=A0 The additional concern I had in mind w=
as the confidentiality of the network infrastructure information being sent=
 in the clear over the Internet.=C2=A0 Again, this is case where Section 4.=
5 of RFC8762 already has the right word (and
 you cite it in the Security Considerations generically).=C2=A0 As a COMMEN=
T, I would suggest you reiterate that guidance in particular for this TLV b=
ecause of the information it carries.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
** Section 4.8.=C2=A0 Is the key used for the HMAC TLV the same as the one =
in the<br>
HMAC in the STAMP authenticated packet?=C2=A0 Could one use different keys?=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; From practical POV, an implementation ma=
y choose so that HMAC TLV will always use the same key as HMAC in the STAMP=
 base packet. But that is not required as the document leaves the key manag=
ement outside its scope by way of reference
 to Section 4.4 RFC 8762.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
[Roman] The revised language is much clearer, thank you for adding it.=C2=
=A0 I would also ask that you repeat that the keying is out of scope.=C2=A0=
 My read of Section 4 of RFC8762 is that it provides guidance in the contex=
t of only the base specification.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Thank you for responding to the SECDIR review (and thank you to Charlie Kau=
fman<br>
for doing it).<br>
<br>
** Section 4.6.=C2=A0 Per the =E2=80=9CID (Access ID)=E2=80=9D, I was a sur=
prised that the values<br>
are hard-coded as this complicates future extensibility (e.g., providing<br=
>
further fidelity into the type =E2=80=9Cnon-3gpp network=E2=80=9D used).=C2=
=A0 Perhaps this was<br>
intentional to meet the PMF component of TS23501?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Indeed, it is how 3GPP defined the PMF. =
>From its POV, any network, 3GPP or Non-3GPP of any kind, that connects to 5=
GNC uses the same interfaces and APIs as 3GPP. But that doesn&#39;t say tha=
t 3GPP may decide to use other IDs in the future.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Roman] Understood.=C2=A0 Thanks for explaining.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
** Section 4.8.=C2=A0 This mechanism like, RFC8762, does not provide for al=
gorithm<br>
agility.=C2=A0 As RFC8762 at least says =E2=80=9CFuture specifications may =
define the use of<br>
other, more advanced cryptographic algorithms, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D it would =
be useful to say<br>
that this TLV is anticipated to track updates in the base STAMP protocol.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Agree. Below is the proposed update:<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMA=
C-SHA-256 truncated to 128<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerations regarding using the=
 key and key<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762]=
 are<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully applicable to the use of the HMAC=
 TLV.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HM=
AC-SHA-256 truncated to 128<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerati=
ons regarding using the key and key<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762]=
 are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.=C2=A0 HMAC TLV is=
 anticipated<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to track updates in the base STAMP protocol [RFC8762], includi=
ng the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use of more advanced cryptographic algorithms.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Roman] Makes sense.=C2=A0 Thanks.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--0000000000009fc02005ad68821d--


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From: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org>, IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>, Yali Wang <wangyali11@huawei.com>
Thread-Topic: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
Thread-Index: AQHWWTjckfRO60pPwEuvTcOLUDGXCqkIBJCAgDg9tACAAuCBwIAAVagA//+9+XA=
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 19:51:43 +0000
Message-ID: <713ef6d0c7df4aef82728a8f2c43c92f@cert.org>
References: <159466036262.24109.254160498157991850@ietfa.amsl.com> <CA+RyBmWXd=3+eovBivAoQbi67c+ZgwdDv_EF0NzqXO_QUD2mDw@mail.gmail.com> <CA+RyBmWHXy89e9HNDdRmaZWofmdLY4EpgHGmEwbecXUc0A80MA@mail.gmail.com> <a9cd427d3ec244fda1158676f7633b47@cert.org> <CA+RyBmUm8odeeprncgZgPQkJSX9jDTmz_CxXHw=wf1mrhegXMQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 12:57:29 -0700
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To: Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
Cc: The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org>,  IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>, Yali Wang <wangyali11@huawei.com>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Roman Danyliw's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
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Hi Roman,
thank you. I'll upload -09 version with this update.

Regards,
Greg

On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:51 PM Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> wrote:

> Hi Greg!
>
>
>
> That looks good to me.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roman
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 21, 2020 3:48 PM
> *To:* Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
> *Cc:* The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org=
;
> IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>; Yali
> Wang <wangyali11@huawei.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> thank you for your quick response and kind consideration of the updates.
> Would the following update address your concern about the scope of the
> document in regard to the HMAC key management and distribution mechanisms=
:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
>    distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
>    fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>    As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key listed
>    in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are fully applicable to the use of the
>    HMAC TLV.  Key management and the mechanisms to distribute the HMAC
>    key are outside the scope of this specification.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:14 PM Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg!
>
>
>
> Thanks the -08 update.  Per one of the DISCUSSes, could you please add a
> trivial scoping sentenced described below.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Roman
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 19, 2020 2:45 PM
> *To:* Roman Danyliw <rdd@cert.org>
> *Cc:* The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org=
;
> IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>; Yali
> Wang <wangyali11@huawei.com>
> *Subject:* Re: Roman Danyliw's Discuss on
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)
>
>
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> I hope this note finds you well.
>
> We've worked on addressing your DISCUSSes and the updates are in the
> recently published version
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/>. I
> much appreciate your feedback on these updates whether we've understood
> your DISCUSSes and have addressed them.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:53 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Roman,
>
> thank you for your review, questions, and comments. Please find my answer=
s
> below tagged GIM>>.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM Roman Danyliw via Datatracker <
> noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss
>
> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
> introductory paragraph, however.)
>
>
> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html
> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.
>
>
> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> DISCUSS:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> ** Section 4.2.  The Location TLV is explicitly trying to extract network
> configuration information that would be elided by the first hop router
> (MAC) or
> a NAT (real IP address).  RFC8762 helpfully notes that =E2=80=9CWhen usin=
g STAMP
> over
> the Internet =E2=80=A6 impact of the STAMP-Test packets MUST be thoroughl=
y
> analyzed.=E2=80=9D
> Please provide a bit of text describing the privacy implications here (or
> bound
> this with an applicability statement).
>
> GIM>> You have a valid concern that the Location TLV provides information
> on the penultimate to the Session-Reflector router. We can recommend usin=
g
> the Location TLV either in the STAMP Authenticated mode or in combination
> with HMAC TLV. Would that address your concern?
>
>
>
> Thanks.  The additional concern I had in mind was the confidentiality of
> the network infrastructure information being sent in the clear over the
> Internet.  Again, this is case where Section 4.5 of RFC8762 already has t=
he
> right word (and you cite it in the Security Considerations generically).
> As a COMMENT, I would suggest you reiterate that guidance in particular f=
or
> this TLV because of the information it carries.
>
>
> ** Section 4.8.  Is the key used for the HMAC TLV the same as the one in
> the
> HMAC in the STAMP authenticated packet?  Could one use different keys?
>
> GIM>> From practical POV, an implementation may choose so that HMAC TLV
> will always use the same key as HMAC in the STAMP base packet. But that i=
s
> not required as the document leaves the key management outside its scope =
by
> way of reference to Section 4.4 RFC 8762.
>
>
> [Roman] The revised language is much clearer, thank you for adding it.  I
> would also ask that you repeat that the keying is out of scope.  My read =
of
> Section 4 of RFC8762 is that it provides guidance in the context of only
> the base specification.
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> COMMENT:
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Thank you for responding to the SECDIR review (and thank you to Charlie
> Kaufman
> for doing it).
>
> ** Section 4.6.  Per the =E2=80=9CID (Access ID)=E2=80=9D, I was a surpri=
sed that the
> values
> are hard-coded as this complicates future extensibility (e.g., providing
> further fidelity into the type =E2=80=9Cnon-3gpp network=E2=80=9D used). =
 Perhaps this was
> intentional to meet the PMF component of TS23501?
>
> GIM>> Indeed, it is how 3GPP defined the PMF. From its POV, any network,
> 3GPP or Non-3GPP of any kind, that connects to 5GNC uses the same
> interfaces and APIs as 3GPP. But that doesn't say that 3GPP may decide to
> use other IDs in the future.
>
>
>
> [Roman] Understood.  Thanks for explaining.
>
>
> ** Section 4.8.  This mechanism like, RFC8762, does not provide for
> algorithm
> agility.  As RFC8762 at least says =E2=80=9CFuture specifications may def=
ine the
> use of
> other, more advanced cryptographic algorithms, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D it woul=
d be useful to say
> that this TLV is anticipated to track updates in the base STAMP protocol.
>
> GIM>> Agree. Below is the proposed update:
>
> OLD TEXT:
>
>    As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
>    distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
>
>    fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.
>
> NEW TEXT:
>
>     As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMAC-SHA-256 truncated to 128
>
>    bits ([RFC4868]).  All considerations regarding using the key and key
>    distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are
>    fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.  HMAC TLV is anticipated
>    to track updates in the base STAMP protocol [RFC8762], including the
>    use of more advanced cryptographic algorithms.
>
>
>
> [Roman] Makes sense.  Thanks.
>
>
>
>

--000000000000345dc605ad68a6b7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Roman,<div>thank you. I&#39;ll upload -09 version with =
this update.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><b=
r><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Fri, =
Aug 21, 2020 at 12:51 PM Roman Danyliw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org">=
rdd@cert.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-3651916713945762069WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That looks good to me.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roman<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, August 21, 2020 3:48 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman Danyliw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
iesg@ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@i=
etf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org</a>; I=
PPM Chairs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ip=
pm-chairs@ietf.org</a>&gt;; IETF IPPM WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;; Yali Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:wangyali11@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">wangyali11@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Roman Danyliw&#39;s Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-op=
tion-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Roman,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your quick response and kind considera=
tion of the updates. Would the following update address your concern about =
the scope of the document in regard to the HMAC key management and distribu=
tion mechanisms:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMA=
C-SHA-256 truncated to 128<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerations regarding using the=
 key and key<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762]=
 are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMA=
C-SHA-256 truncated to 128<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerations regarding using the=
 key listed<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762] are fully applicable to the use of=
 the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0HMAC TLV.=C2=A0 Key management and the mechanisms to distribut=
e the HMAC<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0key are outside the scope of this specification.<u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 12:14 PM Roman Danyliw &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org" target=3D"_blank">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt; wrote=
:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg!<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks the -08 update.=C2=A0 Per one of the DISCUSSe=
s, could you please add a trivial scoping sentenced described below.<u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roman<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregi=
mirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, August 19, 2020 2:45 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Roman Danyliw &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:rdd@cert.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">rdd@cert.org</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> The IESG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:iesg@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">=
iesg@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" target=3D"_bla=
nk">draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org</a>; IPPM Chairs &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm-chairs@ietf.org</a>=
&gt;; IETF IPPM WG &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">i=
ppm@ietf.org</a>&gt;;
 Yali Wang &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">w=
angyali11@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: Roman Danyliw&#39;s Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-op=
tion-tlv-07: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT)<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Roman,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I hope this note finds you well.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We&#39;ve worked on addressing your DISCUSSes and th=
e updates are in
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tl=
v/" target=3D"_blank">
the recently published version</a>. I much appreciate your feedback on thes=
e updates whether we&#39;ve understood your DISCUSSes and have addressed th=
em.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Jul 14, 2020 at 4:53 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0i=
n 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Roman,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your review, questions, and comments. =
Please find my answers below tagged GIM&gt;&gt;.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Jul 13, 2020 at 10:12 AM Roman Danyliw via D=
atatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">norepl=
y@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0i=
n 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot posit=
ion for<br>
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-07: Discuss<br>
<br>
When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all<br>
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this<br>
introductory paragraph, however.)<br>
<br>
<br>
Please refer to <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-crit=
eria.html" target=3D"_blank">
https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html</a><br>
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.<br>
<br>
<br>
The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tl=
v/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stam=
p-option-tlv/</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
DISCUSS:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
** Section 4.2.=C2=A0 The Location TLV is explicitly trying to extract netw=
ork<br>
configuration information that would be elided by the first hop router (MAC=
) or<br>
a NAT (real IP address).=C2=A0 RFC8762 helpfully notes that =E2=80=9CWhen u=
sing STAMP over<br>
the Internet =E2=80=A6 impact of the STAMP-Test packets MUST be thoroughly =
analyzed.=E2=80=9D <br>
Please provide a bit of text describing the privacy implications here (or b=
ound<br>
this with an applicability statement).<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; You have a valid concern that the Locati=
on TLV provides information on the penultimate to the Session-Reflector rou=
ter. We can recommend using the Location TLV either in the
 STAMP Authenticated mode or in combination with HMAC TLV. Would that addre=
ss your concern?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0i=
n 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks.=C2=A0 The additional concern I had in mind w=
as the confidentiality of the network infrastructure information being sent=
 in the clear over the Internet.=C2=A0 Again, this is case where
 Section 4.5 of RFC8762 already has the right word (and you cite it in the =
Security Considerations generically).=C2=A0 As a COMMENT, I would suggest y=
ou reiterate that guidance in particular for this TLV because of the inform=
ation it carries.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
** Section 4.8.=C2=A0 Is the key used for the HMAC TLV the same as the one =
in the<br>
HMAC in the STAMP authenticated packet?=C2=A0 Could one use different keys?=
<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; From practical POV, an implementation ma=
y choose so that HMAC TLV will always use the same key as HMAC in the STAMP=
 base packet. But that is not required as the document leaves
 the key management outside its scope by way of reference to Section 4.4 RF=
C 8762.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0i=
n 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
[Roman] The revised language is much clearer, thank you for adding it.=C2=
=A0 I would also ask that you repeat that the keying is out of scope.=C2=A0=
 My read of Section 4 of RFC8762 is that it provides guidance in the contex=
t of only the base specification.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
COMMENT:<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Thank you for responding to the SECDIR review (and thank you to Charlie Kau=
fman<br>
for doing it).<br>
<br>
** Section 4.6.=C2=A0 Per the =E2=80=9CID (Access ID)=E2=80=9D, I was a sur=
prised that the values<br>
are hard-coded as this complicates future extensibility (e.g., providing<br=
>
further fidelity into the type =E2=80=9Cnon-3gpp network=E2=80=9D used).=C2=
=A0 Perhaps this was<br>
intentional to meet the PMF component of TS23501?<u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Indeed, it is how 3GPP defined the PMF. =
>From its POV, any network, 3GPP or Non-3GPP of any kind, that connects to 5=
GNC uses the same interfaces and APIs as 3GPP. But that
 doesn&#39;t say that 3GPP may decide to use other IDs in the future.<u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Roman] Understood.=C2=A0 Thanks for explaining.<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0i=
n 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
** Section 4.8.=C2=A0 This mechanism like, RFC8762, does not provide for al=
gorithm<br>
agility.=C2=A0 As RFC8762 at least says =E2=80=9CFuture specifications may =
define the use of<br>
other, more advanced cryptographic algorithms, =E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D it would =
be useful to say<br>
that this TLV is anticipated to track updates in the base STAMP protocol.<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; Agree. Below is the proposed update:<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">OLD TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HMA=
C-SHA-256 truncated to 128<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerations regarding using the=
 key and key<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762]=
 are<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully applicable to the use of the HMAC=
 TLV.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">NEW TEXT:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0 As defined in [RFC8762], STAMP uses HM=
AC-SHA-256 truncated to 128<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0 =C2=A0bits ([RFC4868]).=C2=A0 All considerati=
ons regarding using the key and key<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0distribution and management listed in Section 4.4 of [RFC8762]=
 are<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0fully applicable to the use of the HMAC TLV.=C2=A0 HMAC TLV is=
 anticipated<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to track updates in the base STAMP protocol [RFC8762], includi=
ng the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use of more advanced cryptographic algorithms.<u></u><u></u></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Roman] Makes sense.=C2=A0 Thanks.<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000345dc605ad68a6b7--


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional Extensions
        Authors         : Greg Mirsky
                          Xiao Min
                          Henrik Nydell
                          Richard Foote
                          Adi Masputra
                          Ernesto Ruffini
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
	Pages           : 32
	Date            : 2020-08-21

Abstract:
   This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active
   Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enable measurement of performance
   metrics.  The document also defines a STAMP Test Session Identifier
   and thus updates RFC 8762.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 21 Aug 2020 13:12:38 -0700
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Subject: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
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Dear All,
updates in this version address comments from Roman and Erik.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
To: Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com>, Greg Mirsky <
gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Henrik Nydell <hnydell@accedian.com>, Adi Masputra <
adi@apple.com>, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.org>, Xiao Min <
xiao.min2@zte.com.cn>



A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
Revision:       09
Title:          Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional
Extensions
Document date:  2020-08-21
Group:          ippm
Pages:          32
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
Htmlized:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09
Htmlized:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
Diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09

Abstract:
   This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active
   Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enable measurement of performance
   metrics.  The document also defines a STAMP Test Session Identifier
   and thus updates RFC 8762.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat

--0000000000005b0c7805ad68dc1e
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>updates in this version address comments fro=
m Roman and Erik.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg<br><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">---------- =
Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mail=
to:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Dat=
e: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM<br>Subject: New Version Notification for dr=
aft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt<br>To: Richard Foote &lt;<a href=3D"m=
ailto:footer.foote@nokia.com">footer.foote@nokia.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, =
Henrik Nydell &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:hnydell@accedian.com">hnydell@accedian.=
com</a>&gt;, Adi Masputra &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adi@apple.com">adi@apple.co=
m</a>&gt;, Ernesto Ruffini &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:eruffini@outsys.org">eruff=
ini@outsys.org</a>&gt;, Xiao Min &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:xiao.min2@zte.com.cn=
">xiao.min2@zte.com.cn</a>&gt;<br></div><br><br><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-=
tlv<br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A009<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement =
Protocol Optional Extensions<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2020-08-21<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 32<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt" rel=3D"noreferr=
er" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-=
stamp-option-tlv-09.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_=
blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/</=
a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/=
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">h=
ttps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tl=
v</a><br>
Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-=
option-tlv-09</a><br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way =
Active<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enable measurement of perfor=
mance<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0metrics.=C2=A0 The document also defines a STAMP Test Session =
Identifier<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0and thus updates RFC 8762.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio=
n<br>
until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a href=3D"http://tool=
s.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf.org</a>.<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></div>

--0000000000005b0c7805ad68dc1e--


From nobody Mon Aug 24 19:52:03 2020
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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RE:[ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
Thread-Index: AdZ6ilUvI7J+GKdCR0ermgeO/WrtOQ==
Date: Tue, 25 Aug 2020 02:51:54 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
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Hi Greg and all,

May I have some questions and comments about the STAMP TLV Type Registry?

First, as shown in the Table 1, code points in the range 252-254 is allocat=
ed for Private Use. Does it mean each Vendor/Enterprise can just define thr=
ee kinds of STAMP TLV? What's your consideration about the three code point=
s allocation for Vendor Private Use ?

Second, if the TLV Type or sub-TLV Type is Experimental, similarly to Priva=
te Use, does it need to fill the vendor's SMI Private Enterprise Code in th=
e first four octets of Value field? Please give some clarifications any exp=
ected restrictions on experimental scope. Such as said in [RFC8126], whethe=
r it's acceptable to run experiments using those code points over the open =
Internet or whether such experiments should be confined to more closed envi=
ronments.

Best regards,
Yali




---------- Forwarded message ---------

From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org><mailto:&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;>

Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM

Subject: New Version Notification for

draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt

To: Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com><mailto:&lt;footer.foote@nokia.co=
m&gt;>om>, Greg Mirsky <

gregimirsky@gmail.com><mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;>gt;, Henrik Nydell =
<hnydell@accedian.com><mailto:&lt;hnydell@accedian.com&gt;>om>, Adi Masputr=
a <

adi@apple.com><mailto:adi@apple.com&gt;>gt;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outs=
ys.org><mailto:&lt;eruffini@outsys.org&gt;>rg>, Xiao Min <

xiao.min2@zte.com.cn><mailto:xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&gt;>







A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt

has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the

IETF repository.



Name:           draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv

Revision:       09

Title:          Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional

Extensions

Document date:  2020-08-21

Group:          ippm

Pages:          32

URL:

https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.tx=
t

Status:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/

Htmlized:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09

Htmlized:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv

Diff:

https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09



Abstract:

   This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active

   Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enable measurement of performance

   metrics.  The document also defines a STAMP Test Session Identifier

   and thus updates RFC 8762.


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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg and all,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">May I have some questions and comments about the STA=
MP TLV Type Registry?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First, as shown in the Table 1, code points in the r=
ange 252-254 is allocated for Private Use. Does it mean each Vendor/Enterpr=
ise can just define three kinds of STAMP TLV? What&#8217;s your considerati=
on about the three code points allocation
 for Vendor Private Use ?<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Second, if the TLV Type or sub-TLV Type is Experimen=
tal, similarly to Private Use, does it need to fill the vendor&#8217;s SMI =
Private Enterprise Code in the first four octets of Value field? Please giv=
e some clarifications any expected restrictions
 on experimental scope. Such as said in [RFC8126], whether it&#8217;s accep=
table to run experiments using those code points over the open Internet or =
whether such experiments should be confined to more closed environments.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yali<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">---------- Forwarded message ---------<o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">From: <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;internet-drafts@iet=
f.org&amp;gt;"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&g=
t;</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM<o:p></o:p></span=
></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Subject: New Version Notification for<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt<o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">To: Richard Foote <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;footer.=
foote@nokia.com&amp;gt;"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">&lt;footer.foote@nok=
ia.com&gt;</span></a>om&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com&amp;gt;"><s=
pan style=3D"color:#337AB7">gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;</span></a>gt;, Henrik=
 Nydell <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;hnydell@accedian.com&amp;gt;"><span style=
=3D"color:#337AB7">&lt;hnydell@accedian.com&gt;</span></a>om&gt;, Adi Maspu=
tra &lt;<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"mailto:adi@apple.com&amp;gt;"><span styl=
e=3D"color:#337AB7">adi@apple.com&gt;</span></a>gt;, Ernesto Ruffini <a hre=
f=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;eruffini@outsys.org&amp;gt;"><span style=3D"color:#337A=
B7">&lt;eruffini@outsys.org&gt;</span></a>rg&gt;, Xiao Min &lt;<o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"mailto:xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&amp;gt;"><sp=
an style=3D"color:#337AB7">xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&gt;</span></a><o:p></o:p></=
span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-=
tlv-09.txt<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and =
posted to the<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">IETF repository.<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Name:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp; draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Revision:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; 09<o:=
p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Title:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional<o:p></o:p></s=
pan></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Extensions<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Document date:&nbsp; 2020-08-21<o:p></o:p></span></=
pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Group:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; ippm<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Pages:&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp; 32<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">URL:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/dra=
ft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">https:/=
/www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt</span=
></a><o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Status:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i=
etf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">https://datatrack=
er.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/</span></a><o:p></o:p></sp=
an></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-i=
ppm-stamp-option-tlv-09"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Htmlized:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr=
aft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv</span></a><o:p></=
o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Diff:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraf=
t-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09"><span style=3D"color:#337AB7">https://www.=
ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09</span></a><o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">Abstract:<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">&nbsp;&nbsp; This document describes optional exten=
sions to Simple Two-way Active<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">&nbsp;&nbsp; Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enab=
le measurement of performance<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">&nbsp;&nbsp; metrics.&nbsp; The document also defin=
es a STAMP Test Session Identifier<o:p></o:p></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9.0pt;font-family:=
Consolas;color:#212529">&nbsp;&nbsp; and thus updates RFC 8762.<o:p></o:p><=
/span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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Hi Yali,
thank you for your questions. Please find my answers and notes below under
GIM>> tag.

Regards,
Greg

On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:51 PM wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg and all,
>
>
>
> May I have some questions and comments about the STAMP TLV Type Registry?
>
>
>
> First, as shown in the Table 1, code points in the range 252-254 is
> allocated for Private Use. Does it mean each Vendor/Enterprise can just
> define three kinds of STAMP TLV? What=E2=80=99s your consideration about =
the three
> code points allocation for Vendor Private Use ?
>
GIM>> My understanding of Section 4.1 RFC 8126
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4.1> is that Private code
points MUST NOT be used ouside of an isolated local network domain, e.g.,
lab network.

>
>
> Second, if the TLV Type or sub-TLV Type is Experimental, similarly to
> Private Use, does it need to fill the vendor=E2=80=99s SMI Private Enterp=
rise Code
> in the first four octets of Value field? Please give some clarifications
> any expected restrictions on experimental scope. Such as said in [RFC8126=
],
> whether it=E2=80=99s acceptable to run experiments using those code point=
s over the
> open Internet or whether such experiments should be confined to more clos=
ed
> environments.
>
GIM>> True, the Experimental code points are similar to the ones
designeted to Private Use, as explained in Section 4.2. I've followed the
discussion on MPLS WG list
<https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mpls/?gbt=3D1&index=3DewEzqMkkwwO=
xdChj_NfF_G_CZKo>that
dealt with the issues related to allocation of TLV and sub-TLV code points.
I couldn't find the issue of the experimental scope being reflected in the
latest version of the draft
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registries-updat=
e/?include_text=3D1>.
Persnally, I don't think that we need to restrict the scope of using the
experimental type. What do you think?

>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yali
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> <&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;>
>
> Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM
>
> Subject: New Version Notification for
>
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
>
> To: Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com> <&lt;footer.foote@nokia.com&gt=
;>om>, Greg Mirsky <
>
> gregimirsky@gmail.com> <gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;>gt;, Henrik Nydell <hny=
dell@accedian.com> <&lt;hnydell@accedian.com&gt;>om>, Adi Masputra <
>
> adi@apple.com> <adi@apple.com&gt;>gt;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.o=
rg> <&lt;eruffini@outsys.org&gt;>rg>, Xiao Min <
>
> xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&gt;>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
>
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
>
> IETF repository.
>
>
>
> Name:           draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
>
> Revision:       09
>
> Title:          Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional
>
> Extensions
>
> Document date:  2020-08-21
>
> Group:          ippm
>
> Pages:          32
>
> URL:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.=
txt
>
> Status:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
>
> Htmlized:
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09
>
> Htmlized:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
>
> Diff:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
>    This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active
>
>    Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enable measurement of performance
>
>    metrics.  The document also defines a STAMP Test Session Identifier
>
>    and thus updates RFC 8762.
>
>
>

--00000000000081b71105adcec007
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Yali,<div>thank you for your questions=
. Please find my answers and notes below under GIM&gt;&gt; tag.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:51 PM =
wangyali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">wan=
gyali11@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);=
padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg and all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">May I have some questions and comments about the STA=
MP TLV Type Registry?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First, as shown in the Table 1, code points in the r=
ange 252-254 is allocated for Private Use. Does it mean each Vendor/Enterpr=
ise can just define three kinds of STAMP TLV? What=E2=80=99s your considera=
tion about the three code points allocation
 for Vendor Private Use ?</p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; My u=
nderstanding of <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4.1"=
>Section 4.1 RFC 8126</a> is that Private code points MUST NOT be used ousi=
de of an isolated local network domain, e.g., lab network.=C2=A0</div><bloc=
kquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:=
1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><p cl=
ass=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Second, if the TLV Type or sub-TLV Type is Experimen=
tal, similarly to Private Use, does it need to fill the vendor=E2=80=99s SM=
I Private Enterprise Code in the first four octets of Value field? Please g=
ive some clarifications any expected restrictions
 on experimental scope. Such as said in [RFC8126], whether it=E2=80=99s acc=
eptable to run experiments using those code points over the open Internet o=
r whether such experiments should be confined to more closed environments.<=
/p></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM&gt;&gt; True, the Experimental code po=
ints are similar to the ones designeted=C2=A0to Private Use, as explained i=
n Section 4.2. I&#39;ve followed <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/ar=
ch/browse/mpls/?gbt=3D1&amp;index=3DewEzqMkkwwOxdChj_NfF_G_CZKo">the discus=
sion on MPLS WG list=C2=A0</a>that dealt with the issues related to allocat=
ion of TLV and sub-TLV code points. I couldn&#39;t find the issue of the ex=
perimental scope being reflected in the latest version of the <a href=3D"ht=
tps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registries-update/?=
include_text=3D1">draft</a>. Persnally, I don&#39;t think that we need to r=
estrict the scope of using the experimental type. What do you think?</div><=
blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l=
eft:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div><=
p class=3D"MsoNormal">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yali<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">---------- Forwarded message ---------<u></u><u=
></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">From: <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;internet-drafts=
@ietf.org&amp;gt;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">=
&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM<u></u><u></u=
></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Subject: New Version Notification for<u></u><u>=
</u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt<u></u><=
u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">To: Richard Foote <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;foo=
ter.foote@nokia.com&amp;gt;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,=
122,183)">&lt;footer.foote@nokia.com&gt;</span></a>om&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;=
<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com&amp;gt;=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">gregimirsky@gmail=
.com&gt;</span></a>gt;, Henrik Nydell <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;hnydell@acc=
edian.com&amp;gt;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">=
&lt;hnydell@accedian.com&gt;</span></a>om&gt;, Adi Masputra &lt;<u></u><u><=
/u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"mailto:adi@apple.com&amp;gt;" target=
=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">adi@apple.com&gt;</span><=
/a>gt;, Ernesto Ruffini <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;eruffini@outsys.org&amp;g=
t;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">&lt;eruffini@ou=
tsys.org&gt;</span></a>rg&gt;, Xiao Min &lt;<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"mailto:xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&amp;gt;"=
 target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">xiao.min2@zte.com.=
cn&gt;</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-opt=
ion-tlv-09.txt<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky =
and posted to the<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">IETF repository.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv<u></u><u></u></span></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0=
9<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional<u></u><=
u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Extensions<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Document date:=C2=A0 2020-08-21<u></u><u></u></=
span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ippm<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 32<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">URL:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts=
/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(51,122,183)">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm=
-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Status:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(=
51,122,183)">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-=
tlv/</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Htmlized:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ie=
tf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,=
122,183)">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09</=
span></a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Htmlized:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm=
l/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,122,183)">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stam=
p-option-tlv</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Diff:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3D=
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color=
:rgb(51,122,183)">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp=
-option-tlv-09</span></a><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Abstract:<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document describes optional e=
xtensions to Simple Two-way Active<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that =
enable measurement of performance<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 metrics.=C2=A0 The document also d=
efines a STAMP Test Session Identifier<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 and thus updates RFC 8762.<u></u><=
u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>
</div>

--00000000000081b71105adcec007--


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A new Request for Comments is now available in online RFC libraries.

        
        RFC 8889

        Title:      Multipoint Alternate-Marking Method for Passive 
                    and Hybrid Performance Monitoring 
        Author:     G. Fioccola, Ed.,
                    M. Cociglio,
                    A. Sapio,
                    R. Sisto
        Status:     Experimental
        Stream:     IETF
        Date:       August 2020
        Mailbox:    giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com, 
                    mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it, 
                    amedeo.sapio@intel.com,
                    riccardo.sisto@polito.it
        Pages:      23
        Updates/Obsoletes/SeeAlso:   None

        I-D Tag:    draft-ietf-ippm-multipoint-alt-mark-09.txt

        URL:        https://www.rfc-editor.org/info/rfc8889

        DOI:        10.17487/RFC8889

The Alternate-Marking method, as presented in RFC 8321, can only be
applied to point-to-point flows, because it assumes that all the
packets of the flow measured on one node are measured again by a
single second node. This document generalizes and expands this
methodology to measure any kind of unicast flow whose packets can
follow several different paths in the network -- in wider terms, a
multipoint-to-multipoint network.  For this reason, the technique
here described is called "Multipoint Alternate Marking".

This document is a product of the IP Performance Measurement Working Group of the IETF.


EXPERIMENTAL: This memo defines an Experimental Protocol for the
Internet community.  It does not specify an Internet standard of any
kind. Discussion and suggestions for improvement are requested.
Distribution of this memo is unlimited.

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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 12:10:11 -0700
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To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
Cc: "draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org>,  "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
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Hi Yali,
thank you for sharing your thoughts on how IANA allocation policies can be
used for STAMP TLV and sub-TLV registries. Please find my follow-up notes
in-lined tagged GIM2>>.

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Aug 27, 2020 at 8:15 PM wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thanks for your reply. Please see inline [Yali].
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Yali
>
>
>
> *From:* Greg Mirsky [mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:46 AM
> *To:* wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
> *Cc:* draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG (
> ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
> *Subject:* Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Yali,
>
> thank you for your questions. Please find my answers and notes below unde=
r
> GIM>> tag.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:51 PM wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg and all,
>
>
>
> May I have some questions and comments about the STAMP TLV Type Registry?
>
>
>
> First, as shown in the Table 1, code points in the range 252-254 is
> allocated for Private Use. Does it mean each Vendor/Enterprise can just
> define three kinds of STAMP TLV? What=E2=80=99s your consideration about =
the three
> code points allocation for Vendor Private Use ?
>
> GIM>> My understanding of Section 4.1 RFC 8126
> <https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4.1> is that Private code
> points MUST NOT be used ouside of an isolated local network domain, e.g.,
> lab network.
>
>  [Yali] True. This is the definition of the Private Use. So why is the
> range of Private Use just 3 code points? In addition, in the
> draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registries-update, the term "Vendor Private Use"
> is changed to "First Come First Served (FCFS)" in the principles of the L=
SP
> Ping TLV and sub-TLV registries. I suggest merging the range of Private U=
se
> into the FCFS. What do you think?
>
> GIM2>> In my understanding of RFC 8126, Private Use and FCFS are quite
different. The former is only for isolated networks, while the latter may
be used over the Internet. Also, I find that using FCFS registration we
expose STAMP to the following warning provided in Section 4.4:
   A working group or any other entity that is developing a protocol
   based on a First Come First Served code point has to be extremely
   careful that the protocol retains wire compatibility with current use
   of the code point.  Once that is no longer true, the new work needs
   to change to a different code point (and register that use at the
   appropriate time).
Hence, unless there's a strong technical reason for the proposed change of
the registration, I'm hesitant to make the update at this time.

> Second, if the TLV Type or sub-TLV Type is Experimental, similarly to
> Private Use, does it need to fill the vendor=E2=80=99s SMI Private Enterp=
rise Code
> in the first four octets of Value field? Please give some clarifications
> any expected restrictions on experimental scope. Such as said in [RFC8126=
],
> whether it=E2=80=99s acceptable to run experiments using those code point=
s over the
> open Internet or whether such experiments should be confined to more clos=
ed
> environments.
>
> GIM>> True, the Experimental code points are similar to the ones
> designeted to Private Use, as explained in Section 4.2. I've followed the
> discussion on MPLS WG list
> <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mpls/?gbt=3D1&index=3DewEzqMkkw=
wOxdChj_NfF_G_CZKo>that
> dealt with the issues related to allocation of TLV and sub-TLV code point=
s.
> I couldn't find the issue of the experimental scope being reflected in th=
e
> latest version of the draft
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registries-upd=
ate/?include_text=3D1>.
> Persnally, I don't think that we need to restrict the scope of using the
> experimental type. What do you think?
>
>  [Yali] Fine. If we want to follow the draft
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-registries-upd=
ate/?include_text=3D1>,
> I suggest merging the range of Private Use into the FCFS and revising the
> following sentence in section 4.
>
> Old:  If a Type value for TLV or sub-
>
>    TLV is in the range for Vendor Private Use, the Length MUST be at
>
>    least 4, and the first four octets MUST be that vendor's Structure of
>
>    Management Information (SMI) Private Enterprise Code, as recorded in
>
>    IANA's SMI Private Enterprise Codes sub-registry, in network octet ord=
er.
>
> New: If a Type value for TLV or sub-TLV is in the range for Experimental
> Use, the Length MUST be at least 4, and the first four octets MUST be tha=
t
> vendor's Structure of Management Information (SMI) Private Enterprise Cod=
e,
> as recorded in IANA's SMI Private Enterprise Codes sub-registry, in netwo=
rk
> octet order. In the standards compliant implementations, if the
> unrecognized TLV or sun-TLV is from the Experimental Use range, the TLVs
> should be silently ignored.
>
> GIM2>> Thank you for proposing the new text. I think that "silently
ignored" for a TLV from the Experimental range is very different
from how the handling of the unrecognized TLV defined in the specification.
To support symmetrical packets in STAMP, the Session-Reflector must somehow
compensate the length of the unrecognized TLV. Should it replace the
unrecognized Experimental TLV with the Extra Padding TLV? Or copy the
unrecognized Experimental TLV into the reflected packet as-is, i.e.,
without setting the U flag? What do you think?

> Best regards,
>
> Yali
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>
> From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org> <&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;>
>
> Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM
>
> Subject: New Version Notification for
>
> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
>
> To: Richard Foote <footer.foote@nokia.com> <&lt;footer.foote@nokia.com&gt=
;>om>, Greg Mirsky <
>
> gregimirsky@gmail.com> <gregimirsky@gmail.com&gt;>gt;, Henrik Nydell <hny=
dell@accedian.com> <&lt;hnydell@accedian.com&gt;>om>, Adi Masputra <
>
> adi@apple.com> <adi@apple.com&gt;>gt;, Ernesto Ruffini <eruffini@outsys.o=
rg> <&lt;eruffini@outsys.org&gt;>rg>, Xiao Min <
>
> xiao.min2@zte.com.cn> <xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&gt;>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt
>
> has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
>
> IETF repository.
>
>
>
> Name:           draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
>
> Revision:       09
>
> Title:          Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional
>
> Extensions
>
> Document date:  2020-08-21
>
> Group:          ippm
>
> Pages:          32
>
> URL:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.=
txt
>
> Status:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/
>
> Htmlized:
>
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09
>
> Htmlized:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv
>
> Diff:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09
>
>
>
> Abstract:
>
>    This document describes optional extensions to Simple Two-way Active
>
>    Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that enable measurement of performance
>
>    metrics.  The document also defines a STAMP Test Session Identifier
>
>    and thus updates RFC 8762.
>
>
>
>

--000000000000e92bde05adf4cd73
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Yali,<div>thank you for sharing your t=
houghts on how IANA allocation policies can be used for STAMP TLV and sub-T=
LV registries. Please find my follow-up notes in-lined tagged GIM2&gt;&gt;.=
</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Aug 27, 2020=
 at 8:15 PM wangyali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com">wangyali1=
1@huawei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);paddin=
g-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-4868875518059605410WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks for your reply. Please see inline [Ya=
li].<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Yali<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Greg Mirsky [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, August 27, 2020 5:46 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> wangyali &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com" target=3D"=
_blank">wangyali11@huawei.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" tar=
get=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org</a>; IETF IPPM WG =
(<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>) &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br=
>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ippm] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-ietf-ipp=
m-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Yali,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your questions. Please find my answers=
 and notes below under GIM&gt;&gt; tag.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Aug 24, 2020 at 7:51 PM wangyali &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:wangyali11@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank">wangyali11@huawei.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg and all,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">May I have some questions and comments about the STA=
MP TLV Type Registry?<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">First, as shown in the Table 1, code points in the r=
ange 252-254 is allocated for Private Use. Does it mean each Vendor/Enterpr=
ise can just define three kinds of STAMP TLV? What=E2=80=99s
 your consideration about the three code points allocation for Vendor Priva=
te Use ?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; My understanding of <a href=3D"https://t=
ools.ietf.org/html/rfc8126#section-4.1" target=3D"_blank">
Section 4.1 RFC 8126</a> is that Private code points MUST NOT be used ousid=
e of an isolated local network domain, e.g., lab network.=C2=A0<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Yali] Tr=
ue. This is the definition of the Private Use. So why is the range of Priva=
te Use just 3 code points? In addition, in the draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-reg=
istries-update,
 the term &quot;Vendor Private Use&quot; is changed to &quot;First Come Fir=
st Served (FCFS)&quot; in the principles of the LSP Ping TLV and sub-TLV re=
gistries. I suggest merging the range of Private Use into the FCFS. What do=
 you think?</span></p></div></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div></bl=
ockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; In my understanding of RFC 8126, Private Use and=
 FCFS are quite different. The former is only for isolated networks, while =
the latter may be used over the Internet. Also, I find that using FCFS regi=
stration we expose STAMP to the following warning provided in Section 4.4:<=
/div><div>=C2=A0 =C2=A0A working group or any other entity that is developi=
ng a protocol<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0based on a First Come First Served code point=
 has to be extremely<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0careful that the protocol retains wire=
 compatibility with current use<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the code point.=C2=A0 On=
ce that is no longer true, the new work needs<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0to change to =
a different code point (and register that use at the<br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0approp=
riate time).<br></div><div>Hence, unless there&#39;s a strong technical rea=
son for the proposed change of the registration, I&#39;m hesitant to make t=
he update at this time.</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-4868875518059605410WordSecti=
on1"><div><div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;borde=
r-bottom:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6p=
t;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><spa=
n style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Second, if the TLV Type or sub-TLV Type is Experimen=
tal, similarly to Private Use, does it need to fill the vendor=E2=80=99s SM=
I Private Enterprise Code in the first four octets of Value
 field? Please give some clarifications any expected restrictions on experi=
mental scope. Such as said in [RFC8126], whether it=E2=80=99s acceptable to=
 run experiments using those code points over the open Internet or whether =
such experiments should be confined to more
 closed environments.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">GIM&gt;&gt; True, the Experimental code points are s=
imilar to the ones designeted=C2=A0to Private Use, as explained in Section =
4.2. I&#39;ve followed
<a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/browse/mpls/?gbt=3D1&amp;index=
=3DewEzqMkkwwOxdChj_NfF_G_CZKo" target=3D"_blank">
the discussion on MPLS WG list=C2=A0</a>that dealt with the issues related =
to allocation of TLV and sub-TLV code points. I couldn&#39;t find the issue=
 of the experimental scope being reflected in the latest version of the
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-regist=
ries-update/?include_text=3D1" target=3D"_blank">
draft</a>. Persnally, I don&#39;t think that we need to restrict the scope =
of using the experimental type. What do you think?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">[Yali] Fi=
ne. If we want to follow the</span>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-regist=
ries-update/?include_text=3D1" target=3D"_blank">
draft</a><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">, I suggest merging the range=
 of Private Use into the FCFS and revising the following sentence in sectio=
n 4.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">Old: =C2=A0</span><span style=3D"=
color:black">If a Type value for TLV or sub-<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 TLV is in the range for Vendor Priv=
ate Use, the Length MUST be at<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 least 4, and the first four octets =
MUST be that vendor&#39;s Structure of<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Management Information (SMI) Privat=
e Enterprise Code, as recorded in<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 IANA&#39;s SMI Private Enterp=
rise Codes sub-registry, in network octet order.<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)">New: If a Type =
value for TLV or sub-TLV is in the range for Experimental Use, the Length M=
UST be at least 4, and the first four octets MUST be that vendor&#39;s
 Structure of Management Information (SMI) Private Enterprise Code, as reco=
rded in IANA&#39;s SMI Private Enterprise Codes sub-registry, in network oc=
tet order. In the standards compliant implementations, if the unrecognized =
TLV or sun-TLV is from the Experimental
 Use range, the TLVs should be silently ignored.</span></p></div></div></bl=
ockquote></div></div></div></div></blockquote><div>GIM2&gt;&gt; Thank you f=
or proposing the new text. I think that &quot;silently ignored&quot; for a =
TLV from the Experimental range is very different from=C2=A0how=C2=A0the ha=
ndling of the unrecognized TLV defined in the specification. To support sym=
metrical packets in STAMP, the Session-Reflector must somehow compensate th=
e length of the unrecognized TLV. Should it replace the unrecognized Experi=
mental TLV with the Extra Padding TLV? Or copy the unrecognized Experimenta=
l TLV into the reflected packet as-is, i.e., without setting the U flag? Wh=
at do you think?</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px=
 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><di=
v lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"gmail-m_-4868875518059605410WordSection1"><d=
iv><div><blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-botto=
m:none;border-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margi=
n-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm"><div><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(31,73,125)"> <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yali<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">---------- Forwarded message ---------</span><u=
></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">From: <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;internet-drafts=
@ietf.org&amp;gt;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">=
&lt;internet-drafts@ietf.org&gt;</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Date: Fri, Aug 21, 2020 at 1:01 PM</span><u></u=
><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Subject: New Version Notification for</span><u>=
</u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt</span><=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">To: Richard Foote <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;foo=
ter.foote@nokia.com&amp;gt;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,=
122,183)">&lt;footer.foote@nokia.com&gt;</span></a>om&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;=
</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com&amp;gt;=
" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">gregimirsky@gmail=
.com&gt;</span></a>gt;, Henrik Nydell <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;hnydell@acc=
edian.com&amp;gt;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">=
&lt;hnydell@accedian.com&gt;</span></a>om&gt;, Adi Masputra &lt;</span><u><=
/u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"mailto:adi@apple.com&amp;gt;" target=
=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">adi@apple.com&gt;</span><=
/a>gt;, Ernesto Ruffini <a href=3D"mailto:&amp;lt;eruffini@outsys.org&amp;g=
t;" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">&lt;eruffini@ou=
tsys.org&gt;</span></a>rg&gt;, Xiao Min &lt;</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"mailto:xiao.min2@zte.com.cn&amp;gt;"=
 target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,122,183)">xiao.min2@zte.com.=
cn&gt;</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-opt=
ion-tlv-09.txt</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky =
and posted to the</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">IETF repository.</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv</span><u></u><u></u></p=
re>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 0=
9</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Optional</span><=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Extensions</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Document date:=C2=A0 2020-08-21</span><u></u><u=
></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 ippm</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 32</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">URL:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts=
/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"=
color:rgb(51,122,183)">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-ippm=
-stamp-option-tlv-09.txt</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Status:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dra=
ft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(=
51,122,183)">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-=
tlv/</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Htmlized:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ie=
tf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:rgb(51,=
122,183)">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09</=
span></a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Htmlized:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/htm=
l/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color:=
rgb(51,122,183)">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stam=
p-option-tlv</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Diff:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3D=
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D"color=
:rgb(51,122,183)">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp=
-option-tlv-09</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">Abstract:</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 This document describes optional e=
xtensions to Simple Two-way Active</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Measurement Protocol (STAMP) that =
enable measurement of performance</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 metrics.=C2=A0 The document also d=
efines a STAMP Test Session Identifier</span><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre style=3D"background:white"><span style=3D"font-size:9pt;font-family:Co=
nsolas;color:rgb(33,37,41)">=C2=A0=C2=A0 and thus updates RFC 8762.</span><=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>

--000000000000e92bde05adf4cd73--


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From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
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Date: Fri, 28 Aug 2020 15:34:57 -0700
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Cc: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
References: <03CC314C-21FA-44CD-AF2E-F0076755AF04@apple.com> <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF0140BC96B0@njmtexg5.research.att.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/as0sMeuadL-LnIzozfLRJredQRo>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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Hi IPPM,

A reminder that our WGLC is ending next week for =
draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method. Please take a moment to review =
the document!

Thanks,
Tommy

> On Aug 14, 2020, at 2:31 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) =
<acm@research.att.com> wrote:
>=20
> Thanks Tommy and Ian!
> =20
> While updating a few references this week, I noticed that the 02 draft =
had no Security Considerations Section.  That won=E2=80=99t do!
> =20
> The co-authors came together and supplied new text for the Section in =
version 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the draft =
during WGLC.  Thank you IPPM.=20
> =20
> For the co-authors,
> Al
> =20
> =C2=A0 <>
> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf..org] On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM
> To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
> Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
> =20
> Hello IPPM,
> =20
> As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is =
stable, and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.
> =20
> The latest version can be found here: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-02 =
<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_htm=
l_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dcapacity-2Dmetric-2Dmethod-2D02&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DLFY=
Z-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DSIvlMcMEEzV1Wv8tA8hftr1=
Fvi38_c2R6bgbotceIsU&s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw-jjrpTxRsPst6bsHPjjExE&e=3D>=

> =20
> The last call will end on Wednesday, September 2. Please reply to =
ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org> with your reviews and comments, and =
indicate if you think the document is ready to progress!
> =20
> Best,
> Tommy & Ian
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hi =
IPPM,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">A reminder =
that our WGLC is ending next week for =
draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method. Please take a moment to review =
the document!</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Thanks,</div><div class=3D"">Tommy<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Aug =
14, 2020, at 2:31 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acm@research.att.com" =
class=3D"">acm@research.att.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div =
class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1; caret-color: rgb(0, =
0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;"><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D"">Thanks Tommy and Ian!<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">While updating a =
few references this week, I noticed that the 02 draft had no Security =
Considerations Section.&nbsp; That won=E2=80=99t do!<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">The co-authors =
came together and supplied new text for the Section in version 03, =
posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the draft during =
WGLC.&nbsp; Thank you IPPM.&nbsp;<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
&quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D"">For the co-authors,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier =
New&quot;;" class=3D"">Al<o:p class=3D""></o:p></span></div><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: =
11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><a name=3D"_MailEndCompose" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: &quot;Courier New&quot;;" =
class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></span></a></div><div =
style=3D"border-style: none none none solid; border-left-width: 1.5pt; =
border-left-color: blue; padding: 0in 0in 0in 4pt;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"border-style: solid none none; =
border-top-width: 1pt; border-top-color: rgb(225, 225, 225); padding: =
3pt 0in 0in;" class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; =
font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" =
class=3D""><b class=3D""><span style=3D"font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D"">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:=
 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;" class=3D""><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>ippm =
[mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf..org]<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On Behalf =
Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Tommy Pauly<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Friday, August 14, 2020 =
5:21 PM<br class=3D""><b class=3D"">To:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>IETF IPPM WG (<a =
href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a>) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br =
class=3D""><b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>[ippm] WGLC for =
draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></span></div></div></div><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div><div style=3D"margin:=
 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">Hello IPPM,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in =
0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">As =
discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is stable, =
and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D""><o:p class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div =
class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; =
font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">The latest =
version can be found here:&nbsp;<a =
href=3D"https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.=
org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dcapacity-2Dmetric-2Dmethod-2D02&amp;d=3DDwM=
FAg&amp;c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&amp;r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&amp;m=3D=
SIvlMcMEEzV1Wv8tA8hftr1Fvi38_c2R6bgbotceIsU&amp;s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw-=
jjrpTxRsPst6bsHPjjExE&amp;e=3D" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" =
class=3D"">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-met=
hod-02</a><o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">The last call will end on<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">Wednesday, =
September 2</b>. Please reply to<span =
class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a =
href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: purple; text-decoration: =
underline;" class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a>&nbsp;with your reviews and =
comments, and indicate if you think the document is ready to =
progress!<o:p class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div =
style=3D"margin: 0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: =
&quot;Times New Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D""><o:p =
class=3D"">&nbsp;</o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: =
0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New =
Roman&quot;, serif;" class=3D"">Best,<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div><div class=3D""><div style=3D"margin: 0in =
0in 0.0001pt; font-size: 12pt; font-family: &quot;Times New Roman&quot;, =
serif;" class=3D"">Tommy &amp; Ian<o:p =
class=3D""></o:p></div></div></div></div><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">_______________________________________________</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">ippm mailing list</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a></span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, =
0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; =
font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; =
text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: =
normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D""><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a></span></div></bl=
ockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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From: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
CC: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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From: Cociglio Mauro <mauro.cociglio@telecomitalia.it>
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
CC: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
Thread-Topic: [EXT] Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
Thread-Index: AQHWcoJZj1cg/fUgskmDR9lnfaOyealOEF6AgAFcQ8g=
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2020 17:21:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [EXT] Re: WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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--_000_3a8134c7af954739ba0632f5b08a3881TELMBXD14BA020telecomit_
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Hi,
I support this draft.
Regards.
Mauro

-------- Messaggio originale --------
Da: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Data: 29/08/20 00:35 (GMT+01:00)
A: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
Cc: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40=
apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Oggetto: [EXT] Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method

Hi IPPM,

A reminder that our WGLC is ending next week for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-me=
tric-method. Please take a moment to review the document!

Thanks,
Tommy

On Aug 14, 2020, at 2:31 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com<mai=
lto:acm@research.att.com>> wrote:

Thanks Tommy and Ian!

While updating a few references this week, I noticed that the 02 draft had n=
o Security Considerations Section.  That won't do!

The co-authors came together and supplied new text for the Section in versio=
n 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the draft during WGL=
C.  Thank you IPPM.

For the co-authors,
Al


From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf..org] On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>) <ippm@ietf.org<mailto=
:ippm@ietf.org>>
Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method

Hello IPPM,

As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is stable,=
 and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.

The latest version can be found here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf=
-ippm-capacity-metric-method-02<https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=
=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dcapacity-2Dmetric-2Dm=
ethod-2D02&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&=
m=3DSIvlMcMEEzV1Wv8tA8hftr1Fvi38_c2R6bgbotceIsU&s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw-jj=
rpTxRsPst6bsHPjjExE&e=3D>

The last call will end on Wednesday, September 2. Please reply to ippm@ietf.=
org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org> with your reviews and comments, and indicate if yo=
u think the document is ready to progress!

Best,
Tommy & Ian
_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pers=
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--_000_3a8134c7af954739ba0632f5b08a3881TELMBXD14BA020telecomit_
Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html>
<head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii">
<meta content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">
</head>
<body class=3D"" style=3D"word-wrap:break-word; line-break:after-white-space=
">
<div dir=3D"auto">Hi,</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">I support this draft.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Regards.</div>
<div dir=3D"auto">Mauro</div>
<div dir=3D"auto"><br>
</div>
<div>-------- Messaggio originale --------</div>
<div>Da: Tommy Pauly &lt;tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt; </div>
<div>Data: 29/08/20 00:35 (GMT&#43;01:00) </div>
<div>A: &quot;IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)&quot; &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt; </div=
>
<div>Cc: &quot;MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)&quot; &lt;acm@research.att.com&gt;, Tom=
my Pauly &lt;tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;
</div>
<div>Oggetto: [EXT] Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-meth=
od </div>
<div><br>
</div>
<div>Hi IPPM,
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">A reminder that our WGLC is ending next week for draft-ietf-=
ippm-capacity-metric-method. Please take a moment to review the document!</d=
iv>
<div class=3D""><br class=3D"">
</div>
<div class=3D"">Thanks,</div>
<div class=3D"">Tommy<br class=3D"">
<div><br class=3D"">
<blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D"">
<div class=3D"">On Aug 14, 2020, at 2:31 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) &lt;<a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:acm@research.att.com" class=3D"">acm@research.att.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:</div>
<br class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px;=
 font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:st=
art; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:=
0px; text-decoration:none">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">Thanks Tommy and Ian!</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">While updating a few references this week, I noticed that the 02 draft ha=
d no Security Considerations Section.&nbsp; That won&#8217;t do!</span></div=
>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">The co-authors came together and supplied new text for the Section in ver=
sion 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the draft during=
 WGLC.&nbsp; Thank you IPPM.&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">For the co-authors,</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">Al</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot=
;">&nbsp;</span></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<a name=3D"_MailEndCompose" class=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:1=
1pt; font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">&nbsp;</span></a></div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"border-style:none none none solid; border-left-widt=
h:1.5pt; border-left-color:blue; padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"border-style:solid none none; border-top-width:1pt;=
 border-top-color:rgb(225,225,225); padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
<b class=3D""><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-family:Calibri,=
sans-serif">From:</span></b><span class=3D"" style=3D"font-size:11pt; font-f=
amily:Calibri,sans-serif"><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span=
>ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf..org]<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&=
nbsp;</span><b class=3D"">On
 Behalf Of<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span></b>Tommy Pauly=
<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Sent:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>Fr=
iday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM<br class=3D"">
<b class=3D"">To:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>IETF=
 IPPM WG (<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a>) &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br class=
=3D"">
<b class=3D"">Subject:</b><span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span=
>[ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method</span></div>
</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
&nbsp;</div>
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
Hello IPPM,</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is stable,=
 and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
The latest version can be found here:&nbsp;<a href=3D"https://urldefense.pro=
ofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dc=
apacity-2Dmetric-2Dmethod-2D02&amp;d=3DDwMFAg&amp;c=3DLFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg=
&amp;r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&amp;m=3DSIvlMcMEEzV1Wv8tA8hftr1Fvi38_c2R6bgb=
otceIsU&amp;s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw-jjrpTxRsPst6bsHPjjExE&amp;e=3D" class=
=3D"" style=3D"color:purple; text-decoration:underline">https://tools.ietf.o=
rg/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-02</a></div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
The last call will end on<span class=3D"Apple-converted-space">&nbsp;</span>=
<b class=3D"">Wednesday, September 2</b>. Please reply to<span class=3D"Appl=
e-converted-space">&nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" class=3D""=
 style=3D"color:purple; text-decoration:underline">ippm@ietf.org</a>&nbsp;wi=
th
 your reviews and comments, and indicate if you think the document is ready=
 to progress!</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
&nbsp;</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
Best,</div>
</div>
<div class=3D"">
<div class=3D"" style=3D"margin:0in 0in 0.0001pt; font-size:12pt; font-famil=
y:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif">
Tommy &amp; Ian</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:=
normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-de=
coration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">_______________________=
________________________</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica=
; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:norm=
al; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:norm=
al; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:=
normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-de=
coration:none; float:none; display:inline!important">ippm
 mailing list</span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size=
:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-al=
ign:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-sp=
acing:0px; text-decoration:none">
<span class=3D"" style=3D"font-family:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:=
normal; font-weight:normal; letter-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-in=
dent:0px; text-transform:none; white-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-de=
coration:none; float:none; display:inline!important"><a href=3D"mailto:ippm@=
ietf.org" class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a></span><br class=3D"" style=3D"font-fa=
mily:Helvetica; font-size:12px; font-style:normal; font-weight:normal; lette=
r-spacing:normal; text-align:start; text-indent:0px; text-transform:none; wh=
ite-space:normal; word-spacing:0px; text-decoration:none">
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From: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 30 Aug 2020 08:52:31 +0300
Message-ID: <CABUE3XmyjOMfc7rGBUZJUwSkGu7HHx6rFEQ1bRPdAJnd5Crixg@mail.gmail.com>
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: [ippm] IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
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Hi,

There is an open issue in the DEX draft about whether to include an
explicit Hop Count field in the DEX header, or to rely on the existing
Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field.

Section 7 of the draft presents the pros and cons of each of these
alternatives. This issue has also been discussed on the mailing list a
couple of times, and on the last few IPPM meetings.

We would like to encourage non-authors to express their opinion about
which approach should be taken: (1) use an explicit Hop Count field,
or (2) rely on the existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field.

Cheers,
Tal.


Here is a link to the draft:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/

Section 7 of the draft, which presents the two alternatives is quoted
here for convenience.

      Hop Limit / Hop Count: in order to help correlate and order the
      exported packets, it is possible to include a 1-octet Hop Count
      field in the DEX header (presumably by claiming some space from
      the Flags field).  Its value starts from 0 at the encapsulating
      node and is incremented by each IOAM transit node that supports
      the DEX option.  The Hop Count field value is also included in the
      exported packet.  An alternative approach is to use the Hop_Lim/
      Node_ID data field; if the IOAM-Trace-Type
      [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data] has the Hop_Lim/Node_ID bit set, then
      exported packets include the Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field, which
      contains the TTL/Hop Limit value from a lower layer protocol.  The
      main advantage of the Hop_Lim/Node_ID approach is that it provides
      information about the current hop count without requiring each
      transit node to modify the DEX option, thus simplifying the data
      plane functionality of Direct Exporting.  The main advantage of
      the Hop Count approach is that it counts the number of IOAM-
      capable nodes without relying on the lower layer TTL, especially
      when the lower layer cannot prvide the accurate TTL information,
      e.g., Layer 2 Ethernet or hierarchical VPN.  It also explicitly
      allows to detect a case where an IOAM-capable node fails to export
      packets.  In order to facilitate the Hop Count approach it is
      possible to use a flag to indicate an optional Hop Count field,
      which enables to control the tradeoff.  On one hand it addresses
      the use cases that the Hop_Lim/Node_ID cannot cover, and on the
      other hand it does not require transit switches to update the
      option if it is not supported or disabled.  Further discussion is
      required about the tradeoff between the two alternatives.


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--_000_FRAPR01MB05467F1F6905F23EFFC7DC9A9C510FRAPR01MB0546DEUP_--


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From: Joachim Fabini <joachim.fabini@tuwien.ac.at>
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Message-ID: <757bd949-31de-b763-d705-a53d0f302021@tuwien.ac.at>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 11:10:26 +0200
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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Hi Tommy,

the document is imo stable and ready for WGLC.

thanks
Joachim

On 29/08/2020 00:34, Tommy Pauly wrote:
> Hi IPPM,
>=20
> A reminder that our WGLC is ending next week for
> draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method. Please take a moment to review
> the document!
>=20
> Thanks,
> Tommy
>=20
>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 2:31 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
>> <acm@research.att.com <mailto:acm@research.att.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Tommy and Ian!
>> =C2=A0
>> While updating a few references this week, I noticed that the 02 draft
>> had no Security Considerations Section.=C2=A0 That won=E2=80=99t do!
>> =C2=A0
>> The co-authors came together and supplied new text for the Section in
>> version 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the
>> draft during WGLC.=C2=A0 Thank you IPPM.=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0
>> For the co-authors,
>> Al
>> =C2=A0
>> =C2=A0
>> *From:*=C2=A0ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf..org]=C2=A0*On Behalf Of=C2=
=A0*Tommy Pauly
>> *Sent:*=C2=A0Friday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM
>> *To:*=C2=A0IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>)
>> <ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>>
>> *Subject:*=C2=A0[ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
>> =C2=A0
>> Hello IPPM,
>> =C2=A0
>> As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is
>> stable, and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.
>> =C2=A0
>> The latest version can be found
>> here:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric=
-method-02
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org=
_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dcapacity-2Dmetric-2Dmethod-2D02&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3D=
LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DSIvlMcMEEzV1Wv8tA8h=
ftr1Fvi38_c2R6bgbotceIsU&s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw-jjrpTxRsPst6bsHPjjExE&=
e=3D>
>> =C2=A0
>> The last call will end on=C2=A0*Wednesday, September 2*. Please reply
>> to=C2=A0ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>=C2=A0with your reviews an=
d
>> comments, and indicate if you think the document is ready to progress!
>> =C2=A0
>> Best,
>> Tommy & Ian
>> _______________________________________________
>> ippm mailing list
>> ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>=20


From nobody Mon Aug 31 06:57:30 2020
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From: J Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin <ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar>
In-Reply-To: <D2F2FAE3-6998-4793-AD57-F12987FF3A5D@apple.com>
Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 10:57:00 -0300
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To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/j3nqPKTarCT6ouVQf6wTFG6CDT0>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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Hi Tommy,=20

I think this draft is useful, and it represents some methods that are =
used nowadays. I have a couple of comments:

1_ The equation in section 5.3 does not consider times spending on =
transmitting (or I did not see it clearly). It is true that for some =
measurements, the destination is close to the source, and these times =
are tiny.=20
2_ A recommendation about the minimum time during the process could be =
useful to overcome some traffic shapers operation.=20
3_ 3_ For the "Related Round-Trip Delay and Loss Definitions" sections, =
I suggest to include the "median," according to the observations in =
draft-ietf-ippm-route-10.

Many thanks to the authors for their work.=20


Sincerely,

	J. Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin


_______________________________________________________________

Dr. Ing. Jos=C3=A9 Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin
CONICET and Facultad de Ingenier=C3=ADa, Universidad de Buenos Aires
Av. Paseo Col=C3=B3n 850 - C1063ACV - Buenos Aires - Argentina
+54 (11) 5285 0716 / 5285 0705
e-mail: ihameli@cnet.fi.uba.ar
web: http://cnet.fi.uba.ar/ignacio.alvarez-hamelin/
_______________________________________________________________



> On 28 Aug 2020, at 19:34, Tommy Pauly =
<tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hi IPPM,
>=20
> A reminder that our WGLC is ending next week for =
draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method. Please take a moment to review =
the document!
>=20
> Thanks,
> Tommy
>=20
>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 2:31 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) =
<acm@research.att.com> wrote:
>>=20
>> Thanks Tommy and Ian!
>> =20
>> While updating a few references this week, I noticed that the 02 =
draft had no Security Considerations Section.  That won=E2=80=99t do!
>> =20
>> The co-authors came together and supplied new text for the Section in =
version 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the draft =
during WGLC.  Thank you IPPM.=20
>> =20
>> For the co-authors,
>> Al
>> =20
>> =20
>> From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf..org] On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
>> Sent: Friday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM
>> To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
>> Subject: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
>> =20
>> Hello IPPM,
>> =20
>> As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is =
stable, and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.
>> =20
>> The latest version can be found here: =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method-02
>> =20
>> The last call will end on Wednesday, September 2. Please reply to =
ippm@ietf.org with your reviews and comments, and indicate if you think =
the document is ready to progress!
>> =20
>> Best,
>> Tommy & Ian
>> _______________________________________________
>> ippm mailing list
>> ippm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


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To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
CC: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>
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From: Joachim Fabini <joachim.fabini@tuwien.ac.at>
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Date: Mon, 31 Aug 2020 16:33:27 +0200
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
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All,

as a follow-up some nits that I noticed while reading through the
capacity draft:

1. Newly added security considerations: my expectation is that UDP-based
capacity measurements can be potentially more harmful and more difficult
to protect against when compared to TCP-based ones, in particular when
considering (D)DoS. First, there is no state involved at transport layer
that an attacker may need to track/establish and no flow/congestion
control involved. Second, firewalls and other stateful protection
devices can easily identify a missing 3-way handshake for TCP and block
subsequent (unsolicited, harmful) measurement packets sent by an
attacker. But there's no such option for UDP, meaning that the
application layer must handle this case.
If an attacker misuses the packet pattern of UDP capacity measurements
and directs these measurements to an open UDP port of the
destination/target, then middlebox and firewall protections may fail and
consider the traffic to be a legitimate one.
The authors may consider adding some details and guidelines on these
aspects to the security section.

2. A potential architectural/wording issue (disclaimer: I just skimmed
over the draft and may have ommitted some relevant statements, will
hopefully find some more time during the next weeks to review it more
thoroughly): in the beginning the unidirectionality of the capacity
measurement was not obvious to me. Perhaps add it to the draft title to
make this explicit?
In particular the discussion about round-trip delay (RTD) and round-trip
loss (RTL) created this impression and, infact, may also be misleading
wrt inferences about the capacity measurement results.
I assume that the correct capacity measurement depends on the forward
path only, but a lossy reverse path may increase the RTL. This may
introduce some artificial bias and impression that the measurement limit
is reached, while infact the forward link is still under-utilized. So
I'm wondering if Round-trip delay/loss is acceptable or one-way-loss is
needed and more accurate.

But, as written in the disclaimer: it's a potential issue that needs
some more time and deeper analysis. Hope to find some time to go more
into details later on.

Overall I find the concept of UDP-based capacity measurement to be a
compelling mechanism that can help to overcome some of the downsides of
TCP-based bulk transfer capacities. Thanks to the authors for their
contribution.

regards
Joachim

On 29/08/2020 00:34, Tommy Pauly wrote:
> Hi IPPM,
>=20
> A reminder that our WGLC is ending next week for
> draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method. Please take a moment to review
> the document!
>=20
> Thanks,
> Tommy
>=20
>> On Aug 14, 2020, at 2:31 PM, MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)
>> <acm@research.att.com <mailto:acm@research.att.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Tommy and Ian!
>> =C2=A0
>> While updating a few references this week, I noticed that the 02 draft
>> had no Security Considerations Section.=C2=A0 That won=E2=80=99t do!
>> =C2=A0
>> The co-authors came together and supplied new text for the Section in
>> version 03, posted minutes ago. Please consider version 03 of the
>> draft during WGLC.=C2=A0 Thank you IPPM.=C2=A0
>> =C2=A0
>> For the co-authors,
>> Al
>> =C2=A0
>> =C2=A0
>> *From:*=C2=A0ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf..org]=C2=A0*On Behalf Of=C2=
=A0*Tommy Pauly
>> *Sent:*=C2=A0Friday, August 14, 2020 5:21 PM
>> *To:*=C2=A0IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>)
>> <ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>>
>> *Subject:*=C2=A0[ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
>> =C2=A0
>> Hello IPPM,
>> =C2=A0
>> As discussed at IETF 108, draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method is
>> stable, and the group felt it is ready for Working Group Last Call.
>> =C2=A0
>> The latest version can be found
>> here:=C2=A0https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric=
-method-02
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=3Dhttps-3A__tools.ietf.org=
_html_draft-2Dietf-2Dippm-2Dcapacity-2Dmetric-2Dmethod-2D02&d=3DDwMFAg&c=3D=
LFYZ-o9_HUMeMTSQicvjIg&r=3DOfsSu8kTIltVyD1oL72cBw&m=3DSIvlMcMEEzV1Wv8tA8h=
ftr1Fvi38_c2R6bgbotceIsU&s=3DWEcaTbukpUJlfOGrn8Lbw-jjrpTxRsPst6bsHPjjExE&=
e=3D>
>> =C2=A0
>> The last call will end on=C2=A0*Wednesday, September 2*. Please reply
>> to=C2=A0ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>=C2=A0with your reviews an=
d
>> comments, and indicate if you think the document is ready to progress!
>> =C2=A0
>> Best,
>> Tommy & Ian
>> _______________________________________________
>> ippm mailing list
>> ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>=20


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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" <acm@research.att.com>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
CC: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-capacity-metric-method
Thread-Index: AQHWcoDs2QbZQ6/rRUCWoK1Kl2WS66k4H4cAgBYSYYCAABXVAIAEDeNg
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From: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
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