From nobody Tue Oct 6 11:15:44 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7751C3A14E4 for ; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 11:15:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit To: X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.19.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160200814247.32429.14789666552484049875@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 11:15:42 -0700 From: IETF Secretariat Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Milestones changed for ippm WG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 18:15:43 -0000 Changed milestone "Submit a Standards Track draft defining a metric for unidirectional route assessment to the IESG", resolved as "Done". URL: https://datatracker.ietf.org/wg/ippm/about/ From nobody Tue Oct 6 12:04:53 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8B2E23A0A96; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:04:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o6TAnKdWhV-d; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:04:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x130.google.com (mail-il1-x130.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::130]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3F7453A0A1C; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x130.google.com with SMTP id c5so11979483ilk.11; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 12:04:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=d+VZ03EEd+VOdawUAsLH4YcKL3UQED3DdYRpkqJHlVo=; b=BH1Bi7UCxu9FLNkW/W+YHez78NEvdewbizSm0PWVZAG6GQhbrlSyr3K1kTpy/EeCRz IsnIu6NoRpipcntvqb1K9jKnTwb0XDIqqu8MJqt0kHSBRIxQXadyxywik0CchbrUrDy4 6CMNlMf4EXEQLjlQ8ExpTiO+4VyWxzDd0LrJdITrd7xefGmEEQ28CwGKArbCReM8N+Bd rRw/gdHrlRWfJe5QtLygRoOmeCWORRhw6ePpFowoBOHhqdvVG6IUjZiqWc7o/gXfLv/0 HYjdRRB2rBOjkSWwZ+9FJSEpMQ4naNWtkM9fcyK+dT8B/QUuuqgRWkw3vmpsHca2EVDl dc7w== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=d+VZ03EEd+VOdawUAsLH4YcKL3UQED3DdYRpkqJHlVo=; b=KDPm1laHx9V8tDLdCLplq3K/RNYKPvmc6Hlt11wG/PyzJJcNC8E2eHyGKKumSJchah g1S6SfLGTn9qezDeobpixVuNijlb3FywhyN2UmTsBz/9QkjB+2X3J8X2834Sv37+J9Pk 2O1e7FOPgLH/jl3rFtRLgcpgXeFopG+OVTY4OTernOi/FD4+XTHgOrUjwJe16VdzdCP3 wcEuUmvZ3qh6BsZJ6SCADmdB+Xro0qeuoK20NnDshx4PRRWlMGV5nO+Zx2wIubMxaMVR fWBitDe1hI9RKDQv9Ef4RT4ugpWW8u7cmrXRHOcH34rh+8usvFcAQ8pZIteFW6jI+1T7 NXZw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532+RPAWZtcIZ2qMK4RTWuCfK8iN3a1OPBuu2THaZ+tX5KISf3/i LyznsvtDNDDfvTHW666TXGtsgDaP4p/V4MSb+jk= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJx6jSB0NqEd3mSkd3hXtMUC21bdCfA621iXvt7p1tiiy1yTn7TOuseLBqVoNZEy05WC8HXStV25efPIuDWtY64= X-Received: by 2002:a92:4910:: with SMTP id w16mr4769477ila.303.1602011080257; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 12:04:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159901891096.15973.17525194862666459811@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Martin Duke Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:04:28 -0700 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: Benjamin Kaduk , IPPM Chairs , draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org, The IESG , Yali Wang , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000005d769305b10545b8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:04:48 -0000 --0000000000005d769305b10545b8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" I believe the current status of this is that Ben is awaiting another version of this draft to resolve his DISCUSS. If anyone has a different understanding, please say so. On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:44 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Ben, > thank you for your comments and suggestions, all are much appreciated. > Please find my notes in-lined below tagged by GIM>>. Attached are the diff > and the new working version of the draft. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker < > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > >> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for >> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: Discuss >> >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >> introductory paragraph, however.) >> >> >> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >> >> >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ >> >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> DISCUSS: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Thanks for all the updates; we've made good progress. >> >> I think we're still not converged on the DSCP handling, though. I have >> a bit more exposition in the COMMENT section, but in short, my >> understanding is that we're setting up a session-reflector to incur >> unbounded levels of risk with hard protocol requirements. I think we >> need to provide a way to bound that risk, for example by allowing the >> Session-Reflector to selectively choose to treat the CoS TLV as >> unimplemented (set the U flag in its reflected packet) or some other >> mechanism for local policy to filter what DSCP codepoints are set in >> reflected packets (ideally, indicating that the policy made a change). >> > GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the inter-QoS domain scenario. Clearly, it > must be handled with more caution. Using the U flag is a very interesting > approach. But wouldn't the Session-Sender skip the CoS TLV in the reflected > packet? As a result, we may not retrieve information about the CoS mapping > in the forward direction, i.e., towards the Session-Reflector. And it might > be difficult for an operator to recognize whether the Session-Reflector > doesn't support the particular CoS or STAMP extensions altogether. I would > propose a new field being added in the CoS TLV: > > - RP (Reverse Path) - is a two-bit-long field. A Session-Sender > MUST set the value of the RP field to 0 on transmission. > > And further in the section another update: > A STAMP Session-Reflector that receives a test packet with the CoS > TLV MUST include the CoS TLV in the reflected test packet. Also, the > Session-Reflector MUST copy the value of the DSCP and ECN fields of > the IP header of the received STAMP test packet into the DSCP2 field > in the reflected test packet. Finally, the Session-Reflector MUST > use the local policy to verify whether the CoS corresponding to the > value of the DSCP1 field is permitted in the domain. If it is, the > Session-Reflectorset MUST set the DSCP field's value in the IP header > of the reflected test packet equal to the value of the DSCP1 field of > the received test packet. Otherwise, the Session-Reflector MUST use > the DSCP value of the received STAMP packet and set the value of the > RP field to 1. Upon receiving the reflected packet, if the value of > the RP field is 0, the Session-Sender will save the DSCP and ECN > values for analysis of the CoS in the reverse direction. If the > value of the RP field in the received reflected packet is 1, only CoS > in the forward direction can be analyzed. > > Would these updates address your concern? > >> >> Also, there's a bit of fallout from the flags reworking that's left to >> cleanup in Section 4: we now have the Session-Sender set the U flag to >> 1, so this text no longer makes sense: >> >> % A STAMP system, i.e., either a Session-Sender or a Session-Reflector, >> % that has received a STAMP test packet with extension TLVs MUST >> % validate each TLV: >> % >> % If the U flag is set, the STAMP system MUST skip the processing of >> % the TLV. >> >> I think it should just apply to the Session-Sender for this case -- the >> Session-Reflector doesn't need to check the received U flag, since the >> Session-Sender will not be generating TLVs it does not understand. >> (Whether or not to keep the behavior for the M and I flags as applying >> to both Session-Sender and Session-Reflector vs. just Session-Sender >> does not immediately seem to be of much consequence. >> > GIM>> Thank you for catching this. Indeed, that brakes STAMP with > extensions. I think that though checking M and I flags of a > Session-Reflector should not do any harm, it doesn't seem to have any > benefits. Hence we may remove the Session-Reflector from the sentence and > the updated introduction to the flag processing reads like below: > A STAMP Session-Sender that has received a reflected STAMP test > packet with extension TLVs MUST validate each TLV: > >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> COMMENT: >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> My most significant remaining comments are on the Security >> Considerations (Section 6): >> >> The security of the HMAC mechanism is not complete, since it is >> susceptible to replay attack. As such, when HMAC is in use, it is >> important to check that the received sequence numbers are (at least >> mostly) monotonic and to detect replays. While replayed packets do not >> always indicate an attack (depending on the network technology) they are >> still a noteworthy condition, and we should say something about whether >> we expect to produce a response to each received instance or to suppress >> replies to replayed input. >> > GIM>> Is there a reliable mechanism to distinguish between an out-of-order > duplicated packet and a replayed packet? I've checked RFC 5357 TWAMP for > any suggestion and believe that there is no special consideration by a > Session-Reflector for an out-of-order duplicated packet. The TWAMP > Session-Reflector does not monitor whether the sequence numbers of the > received test packets are in the monotonically increasing sequence. STAMP > is designed to be comparable with TWAMP and have some level of > interoperability. Hence, discarding what appears as a replayed packet at a > STAMP Session-Reflector might be less desirable behavior. If we follow > TWAMP's behavior, what else can be done at the Session-Reflector to > strengthen the security? > >> >> Monitoring and optional control of DSCP do not appear to introduce >> any additional security threat to hosts that communicate with STAMP >> as defined in [RFC8762]. As this specification defined the mechanism >> to test DSCP mapping, this document inherits all the security >> >> I'm afraid I still don't understand the reasoning here. In my >> understanding, the risk stems from the semantics of the DCSP field being >> (for at least some codepoints) site-local, there not being a guarantee >> that the session-sender and session-reflector are on the same network >> (and thus, using the same DSCP semantics), and the hard requirement for >> the Session-Reflector to set the DCSP value indicated by the >> Session-Sender. A mechanism for a remote entity to induce generation of >> local packets with unspecified semantics is a risk that cannot be >> qualified at protocol-design time, since the possible outcomes are >> inherently unspecified. This is analogous to the situation with >> undefined behavior in programming languages like C -- the programmer is >> flat-out required to avoid it, because literally anything could go wrong >> if undefined behavior is triggered. >> > GIM>> I agree that the inter-QoS domain case requires more consideration > in the Security section. I propose the updated text below: > > As this specification defined the mechanism to test DSCP mapping, > this document inherits all the security considerations discussed in > [RFC2474]. Monitoring and optional control of DSCP using the CoS TLV > may be used across the Internet so that the Session-Sender and the > Session-Reflector are located in domains that use different CoS > profiles. Thus, it is essential that an operator verifies the set of > CoS values that are used in the Session-Reflector's domain. Also, an > implementation of a Session-Reflector SHOULD support a local policy > to confirm whether the value sent by the Session-Sender can be used > as the value of the DSCP field. Section 4.4 defines the use of that > local policy. > > > >> >> This is especially risky when there is the possibility for the >> Session-Reflector to act on packets that do not have any form of >> authentication (i.e., could be spoofed from off-path). But we do not >> mention this risk at all, let alone give guidance on its mitigation. >> (Discussion of the security considerations of unauthenticated operation >> would ideally be generalized to all actions/TLVs that have side effects, >> not just the specific case of setting the DSCP codepoint.) >> > GIM>> It seems very challenging for a STAMP system to differentiate > between a duplicate and/or out-of-order test packet and a replayed packet > because one of the metrics STAMP test measures is the network re-ordering > metric per RFC 4737 . We may > recommend that the rate-limiting of test packets be selected > conservatively. > >> >> Section 4.2 >> >> I'd suggest saying that all fields that are not filled are transmitted >> with all bits set to zero. >> > GIM>> Thank you for the helpful suggestion. Appended Section 4.2: > Note that all fields not filled by either a Session-Sender or > Session-Reflector are transmitted with all bits set to zero. > >> >> Section 4.2.1 >> >> o Source MAC Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV. The Type >> value is TBA9. The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. >> The Value field is a 12-octet-long MBZ field that MUST be zeroed >> on transmission and ignored on receipt. >> >> Value should be 8-octets-long, no? >> > GIM>> Thank you for catching it! You are absolutely correct. Fixed this > and a similar in: > o Source EUI-64 Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV that > includes the EUI-64 source MAC address. The Type value is TBA11. > The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. The Value field > consists of an eight-octet-long EUI-64 field. > > > >> Section 4.2.2 >> >> A Session-Sender MAY include the Source MAC Address sub-TLV is the >> Location TLV. If the Session-Reflector receives the Location TLV >> >> nit: s/is/in/ >> > GIM>> Thank you. Fixed (and three more places in the same sub-section). > >> >> Section 4.3 >> >> MUST NOT fill any information fields except for STAMP TLV Flags, >> Type, and Length. All other fields MUST be filled with zeroes The >> >> nit: missing full stop. >> > GIM>> Done. > --0000000000005d769305b10545b8 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I believe the current status of this is that Ben is awaiti= ng another version of this draft to resolve his DISCUSS. If anyone has a di= fferent understanding, please say so.

<= div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:44 PM Greg M= irsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ben,
thank you for your comments and = suggestions, all are much appreciated. Please find my notes in-lined below = tagged=C2=A0by GIM>>. Attached are the diff and the new working versi= on of the draft.

Regards,
Greg

On T= ue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:
Benjamin Kaduk has= entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s= tatement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for all the updates; we've made good progress.

I think we're still not converged on the DSCP handling, though.=C2=A0 I= have
a bit more exposition in the COMMENT section, but in short, my
understanding is that we're setting up a session-reflector to incur
unbounded levels of risk with hard protocol requirements.=C2=A0 I think we<= br> need to provide a way to bound that risk, for example by allowing the
Session-Reflector to selectively choose to treat the CoS TLV as
unimplemented (set the U flag in its reflected packet) or some other
mechanism for local policy to filter what DSCP codepoints are set in
reflected packets (ideally, indicating that the policy made a change).
<= /blockquote>
GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the inter-QoS domain= scenario. Clearly, it must be handled=C2=A0with more caution. Using the U = flag is a very interesting approach. But wouldn't the Session-Sender sk= ip the CoS TLV in the reflected packet? As a result, we may not retrieve in= formation about the CoS mapping in the forward direction, i.e., towards the= Session-Reflector. And it might be difficult for an operator to recognize = whether the Session-Reflector doesn't support the particular CoS or STA= MP extensions altogether. I would propose a new field being added in the Co= S TLV:=C2=A0
  • =C2=A0 =C2=A0RP (Reverse Path) - is a two-bi= t-long field.=C2=A0 A Session-Sender
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST set the value of = the RP field to 0 on transmission.
And further in the section = another update:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A STAMP Session-Reflector that recei= ves a test packet with the CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TLV MUST include the CoS TLV= in the reflected test packet.=C2=A0 Also, the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Refl= ector MUST copy the value of the DSCP and ECN fields of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the= IP header of the received STAMP test packet into the DSCP2 field
=C2=A0= =C2=A0in the reflected test packet.=C2=A0 Finally, the Session-Reflector M= UST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use the local policy to verify whether the CoS correspo= nding to the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0value of the DSCP1 field is permitted in the d= omain.=C2=A0 If it is, the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Reflectorset MUST set th= e DSCP field's value in the IP header
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the reflected = test packet equal to the value of the DSCP1 field of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the re= ceived test packet.=C2=A0 Otherwise, the Session-Reflector MUST use
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0the DSCP value of the received STAMP packet and set the value of = the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RP field to 1.=C2=A0 Upon receiving the reflected packe= t, if the value of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the RP field is 0, the Session-Sender wi= ll save the DSCP and ECN
=C2=A0 =C2=A0values for analysis of the CoS in = the reverse direction.=C2=A0 If the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0value of the RP field i= n the received reflected packet is 1, only CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the forwa= rd direction can be analyzed.

Would these upda= tes address your concern?

Also, there's a bit of fallout from the flags reworking that's left= to
cleanup in Section 4: we now have the Session-Sender set the U flag to
1, so this text no longer makes sense:

% A STAMP system, i.e., either a Session-Sender or a Session-Reflector,
% that has received a STAMP test packet with extension TLVs MUST
% validate each TLV:
%
%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the U flag is set, the STAMP system MUST skip the process= ing of
%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the TLV.

I think it should just apply to the Session-Sender for this case -- the
Session-Reflector doesn't need to check the received U flag, since the<= br> Session-Sender will not be generating TLVs it does not understand.
(Whether or not to keep the behavior for the M and I flags as applying
to both Session-Sender and Session-Reflector vs. just Session-Sender
does not immediately seem to be of much consequence.
G= IM>> Thank you for catching this. Indeed, that brakes STAMP with exte= nsions. I think that though checking M and I flags of a Session-Reflector s= hould not do any harm, it doesn't seem to have any benefits. Hence we m= ay remove the Session-Reflector from the sentence and the updated introduct= ion to the flag processing reads like below:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A STAMP= Session-Sender that has received a reflected STAMP test
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pa= cket with extension TLVs MUST validate each TLV:


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

My most significant remaining comments are on the Security
Considerations (Section 6):

The security of the HMAC mechanism is not complete, since it is
susceptible to replay attack.=C2=A0 As such, when HMAC is in use, it is
important to check that the received sequence numbers are (at least
mostly) monotonic and to detect replays.=C2=A0 While replayed packets do no= t
always indicate an attack (depending on the network technology) they are still a noteworthy condition, and we should say something about whether
we expect to produce a response to each received instance or to suppress replies to replayed input.
GIM>> Is there a reli= able mechanism to distinguish between an out-of-order duplicated packet and= a replayed packet? I've checked RFC 5357 TWAMP for any suggestion and = believe that there is no special consideration by a Session-Reflector for a= n out-of-order duplicated packet. The TWAMP Session-Reflector does not moni= tor whether the sequence numbers of the received test packets are in the mo= notonically increasing sequence. STAMP is designed to be comparable with TW= AMP and have some level of interoperability. Hence, discarding what appears= as a replayed packet at a STAMP Session-Reflector might be less desirable = behavior. If we follow TWAMP's=C2=A0behavior, what else can be done at = the Session-Reflector to strengthen the security?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Monitoring and optional control of DSCP do not appear to intro= duce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0any additional security threat to hosts that communicate with = STAMP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as defined in [RFC8762].=C2=A0 As this specification defined t= he mechanism
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to test DSCP mapping, this document inherits all the security<= br>
I'm afraid I still don't understand the reasoning here.=C2=A0 In my=
understanding, the risk stems from the semantics of the DCSP field being (for at least some codepoints) site-local, there not being a guarantee
that the session-sender and session-reflector are on the same network
(and thus, using the same DSCP semantics), and the hard requirement for
the Session-Reflector to set the DCSP value indicated by the
Session-Sender.=C2=A0 A mechanism for a remote entity to induce generation = of
local packets with unspecified semantics is a risk that cannot be
qualified at protocol-design time, since the possible outcomes are
inherently unspecified.=C2=A0 This is analogous to the situation with
undefined behavior in programming languages like C -- the programmer is
flat-out required to avoid it, because literally anything could go wrong if undefined behavior is triggered.
GIM>> I agre= e that the inter-QoS domain case requires more consideration in the Securit= y section. I propose the updated text below:

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0As this specification defined the mechanism to test DSCP mapping,=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this document inherits all the security considerations dis= cussed in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2474].=C2=A0 Monitoring and optional control = of DSCP using the CoS TLV
=C2=A0 =C2=A0may be used across the Internet s= o that the Session-Sender and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Reflector are loc= ated in domains that use different CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0profiles.=C2=A0 Thus= , it is essential that an operator verifies the set of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0CoS = values that are used in the Session-Reflector's domain.=C2=A0 Also, an<= br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation of a Session-Reflector SHOULD support a loca= l policy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to confirm whether the value sent by the Session-S= ender can be used
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as the value of the DSCP field.=C2=A0 Sec= tion 4.4 defines the use of that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0local policy.

=C2=A0

This is especially risky when there is the possibility for the
Session-Reflector to act on packets that do not have any form of
authentication (i.e., could be spoofed from off-path).=C2=A0 But we do not<= br> mention this risk at all, let alone give guidance on its mitigation.
(Discussion of the security considerations of unauthenticated operation
would ideally be generalized to all actions/TLVs that have side effects, not just the specific case of setting the DSCP codepoint.)
=
GIM>> It seems very challenging for a STAMP system to differenti= ate between a duplicate and/or out-of-order test packet and a replayed pack= et because one of the metrics STAMP test measures is the network re-orderin= g metric per RFC 4737. We may recommend that the rate-limiting of test packets b= e selected conservatively.=C2=A0

Section 4.2

I'd suggest saying that all fields that are not filled are transmitted<= br> with all bits set to zero.
GIM>> Thank you for t= he helpful suggestion. Appended Section 4.2:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note th= at all fields not filled by either a Session-Sender or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sess= ion-Reflector are transmitted with all bits set to zero.

Section 4.2.1

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Source MAC Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TL= V.=C2=A0 The Type
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 value is TBA9.=C2=A0 The value of the Length field MUS= T equal to 8.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Value field is a 12-octet-long MBZ field that MUST= be zeroed
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission and ignored on receipt.

Value should be 8-octets-long, no?
GIM>> Thank y= ou for catching it! You are absolutely correct. Fixed this and a similar in= :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0Source EUI-64 Address sub-TLV - is a 12-oc= tet-long sub-TLV that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 includes the EUI-64 source MA= C address.=C2=A0 The Type value is TBA11.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The value= of the Length field MUST equal to 8.=C2=A0 The Value field
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 consists of an eight-octet-long EUI-64 field.

=

Section 4.2.2

=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Session-Sender MAY include the Source MAC Address sub-TLV is= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Location TLV.=C2=A0 If the Session-Reflector receives the Loca= tion TLV

nit: s/is/in/
GIM>> Thank you. Fixed (and three = more places in the same sub-section).=C2=A0

Section 4.3

=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST NOT fill any information fields except for STAMP TLV Flag= s,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Type, and Length.=C2=A0 All other fields MUST be filled with z= eroes The

nit: missing full stop.
GIM>> Done.=C2=A0
<= /div>
--0000000000005d769305b10545b8-- From nobody Tue Oct 6 12:06:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 050093A0AAD; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:06:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Uj7SCg_EeM05; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:06:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 62D113A0A96; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 096J6UHr028786 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 6 Oct 2020 15:06:33 -0400 Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:06:30 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Martin Duke Cc: Greg Mirsky , IPPM Chairs , draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org, The IESG , Yali Wang , IETF IPPM WG Message-ID: <20201006190630.GK89563@kduck.mit.edu> References: <159901891096.15973.17525194862666459811@ietfa.amsl.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:06:55 -0000 Hmm, my notes have this one as waiting on me to look at the latest updates, though there are a few other documents currently in front of it in my priority queue. -Ben On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 12:04:28PM -0700, Martin Duke wrote: > I believe the current status of this is that Ben is awaiting another > version of this draft to resolve his DISCUSS. If anyone has a different > understanding, please say so. > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:44 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > > > Hi Ben, > > thank you for your comments and suggestions, all are much appreciated. > > Please find my notes in-lined below tagged by GIM>>. Attached are the diff > > and the new working version of the draft. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker < > > noreply@ietf.org> wrote: > > > >> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for > >> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: Discuss > >> > >> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all > >> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this > >> introductory paragraph, however.) > >> > >> > >> Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html > >> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. > >> > >> > >> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: > >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ > >> > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> DISCUSS: > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> Thanks for all the updates; we've made good progress. > >> > >> I think we're still not converged on the DSCP handling, though. I have > >> a bit more exposition in the COMMENT section, but in short, my > >> understanding is that we're setting up a session-reflector to incur > >> unbounded levels of risk with hard protocol requirements. I think we > >> need to provide a way to bound that risk, for example by allowing the > >> Session-Reflector to selectively choose to treat the CoS TLV as > >> unimplemented (set the U flag in its reflected packet) or some other > >> mechanism for local policy to filter what DSCP codepoints are set in > >> reflected packets (ideally, indicating that the policy made a change). > >> > > GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the inter-QoS domain scenario. Clearly, it > > must be handled with more caution. Using the U flag is a very interesting > > approach. But wouldn't the Session-Sender skip the CoS TLV in the reflected > > packet? As a result, we may not retrieve information about the CoS mapping > > in the forward direction, i.e., towards the Session-Reflector. And it might > > be difficult for an operator to recognize whether the Session-Reflector > > doesn't support the particular CoS or STAMP extensions altogether. I would > > propose a new field being added in the CoS TLV: > > > > - RP (Reverse Path) - is a two-bit-long field. A Session-Sender > > MUST set the value of the RP field to 0 on transmission. > > > > And further in the section another update: > > A STAMP Session-Reflector that receives a test packet with the CoS > > TLV MUST include the CoS TLV in the reflected test packet. Also, the > > Session-Reflector MUST copy the value of the DSCP and ECN fields of > > the IP header of the received STAMP test packet into the DSCP2 field > > in the reflected test packet. Finally, the Session-Reflector MUST > > use the local policy to verify whether the CoS corresponding to the > > value of the DSCP1 field is permitted in the domain. If it is, the > > Session-Reflectorset MUST set the DSCP field's value in the IP header > > of the reflected test packet equal to the value of the DSCP1 field of > > the received test packet. Otherwise, the Session-Reflector MUST use > > the DSCP value of the received STAMP packet and set the value of the > > RP field to 1. Upon receiving the reflected packet, if the value of > > the RP field is 0, the Session-Sender will save the DSCP and ECN > > values for analysis of the CoS in the reverse direction. If the > > value of the RP field in the received reflected packet is 1, only CoS > > in the forward direction can be analyzed. > > > > Would these updates address your concern? > > > >> > >> Also, there's a bit of fallout from the flags reworking that's left to > >> cleanup in Section 4: we now have the Session-Sender set the U flag to > >> 1, so this text no longer makes sense: > >> > >> % A STAMP system, i.e., either a Session-Sender or a Session-Reflector, > >> % that has received a STAMP test packet with extension TLVs MUST > >> % validate each TLV: > >> % > >> % If the U flag is set, the STAMP system MUST skip the processing of > >> % the TLV. > >> > >> I think it should just apply to the Session-Sender for this case -- the > >> Session-Reflector doesn't need to check the received U flag, since the > >> Session-Sender will not be generating TLVs it does not understand. > >> (Whether or not to keep the behavior for the M and I flags as applying > >> to both Session-Sender and Session-Reflector vs. just Session-Sender > >> does not immediately seem to be of much consequence. > >> > > GIM>> Thank you for catching this. Indeed, that brakes STAMP with > > extensions. I think that though checking M and I flags of a > > Session-Reflector should not do any harm, it doesn't seem to have any > > benefits. Hence we may remove the Session-Reflector from the sentence and > > the updated introduction to the flag processing reads like below: > > A STAMP Session-Sender that has received a reflected STAMP test > > packet with extension TLVs MUST validate each TLV: > > > >> > >> > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> COMMENT: > >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > >> > >> My most significant remaining comments are on the Security > >> Considerations (Section 6): > >> > >> The security of the HMAC mechanism is not complete, since it is > >> susceptible to replay attack. As such, when HMAC is in use, it is > >> important to check that the received sequence numbers are (at least > >> mostly) monotonic and to detect replays. While replayed packets do not > >> always indicate an attack (depending on the network technology) they are > >> still a noteworthy condition, and we should say something about whether > >> we expect to produce a response to each received instance or to suppress > >> replies to replayed input. > >> > > GIM>> Is there a reliable mechanism to distinguish between an out-of-order > > duplicated packet and a replayed packet? I've checked RFC 5357 TWAMP for > > any suggestion and believe that there is no special consideration by a > > Session-Reflector for an out-of-order duplicated packet. The TWAMP > > Session-Reflector does not monitor whether the sequence numbers of the > > received test packets are in the monotonically increasing sequence. STAMP > > is designed to be comparable with TWAMP and have some level of > > interoperability. Hence, discarding what appears as a replayed packet at a > > STAMP Session-Reflector might be less desirable behavior. If we follow > > TWAMP's behavior, what else can be done at the Session-Reflector to > > strengthen the security? > > > >> > >> Monitoring and optional control of DSCP do not appear to introduce > >> any additional security threat to hosts that communicate with STAMP > >> as defined in [RFC8762]. As this specification defined the mechanism > >> to test DSCP mapping, this document inherits all the security > >> > >> I'm afraid I still don't understand the reasoning here. In my > >> understanding, the risk stems from the semantics of the DCSP field being > >> (for at least some codepoints) site-local, there not being a guarantee > >> that the session-sender and session-reflector are on the same network > >> (and thus, using the same DSCP semantics), and the hard requirement for > >> the Session-Reflector to set the DCSP value indicated by the > >> Session-Sender. A mechanism for a remote entity to induce generation of > >> local packets with unspecified semantics is a risk that cannot be > >> qualified at protocol-design time, since the possible outcomes are > >> inherently unspecified. This is analogous to the situation with > >> undefined behavior in programming languages like C -- the programmer is > >> flat-out required to avoid it, because literally anything could go wrong > >> if undefined behavior is triggered. > >> > > GIM>> I agree that the inter-QoS domain case requires more consideration > > in the Security section. I propose the updated text below: > > > > As this specification defined the mechanism to test DSCP mapping, > > this document inherits all the security considerations discussed in > > [RFC2474]. Monitoring and optional control of DSCP using the CoS TLV > > may be used across the Internet so that the Session-Sender and the > > Session-Reflector are located in domains that use different CoS > > profiles. Thus, it is essential that an operator verifies the set of > > CoS values that are used in the Session-Reflector's domain. Also, an > > implementation of a Session-Reflector SHOULD support a local policy > > to confirm whether the value sent by the Session-Sender can be used > > as the value of the DSCP field. Section 4.4 defines the use of that > > local policy. > > > > > > > >> > >> This is especially risky when there is the possibility for the > >> Session-Reflector to act on packets that do not have any form of > >> authentication (i.e., could be spoofed from off-path). But we do not > >> mention this risk at all, let alone give guidance on its mitigation. > >> (Discussion of the security considerations of unauthenticated operation > >> would ideally be generalized to all actions/TLVs that have side effects, > >> not just the specific case of setting the DSCP codepoint.) > >> > > GIM>> It seems very challenging for a STAMP system to differentiate > > between a duplicate and/or out-of-order test packet and a replayed packet > > because one of the metrics STAMP test measures is the network re-ordering > > metric per RFC 4737 . We may > > recommend that the rate-limiting of test packets be selected > > conservatively. > > > >> > >> Section 4.2 > >> > >> I'd suggest saying that all fields that are not filled are transmitted > >> with all bits set to zero. > >> > > GIM>> Thank you for the helpful suggestion. Appended Section 4.2: > > Note that all fields not filled by either a Session-Sender or > > Session-Reflector are transmitted with all bits set to zero. > > > >> > >> Section 4.2.1 > >> > >> o Source MAC Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV. The Type > >> value is TBA9. The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. > >> The Value field is a 12-octet-long MBZ field that MUST be zeroed > >> on transmission and ignored on receipt. > >> > >> Value should be 8-octets-long, no? > >> > > GIM>> Thank you for catching it! You are absolutely correct. Fixed this > > and a similar in: > > o Source EUI-64 Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV that > > includes the EUI-64 source MAC address. The Type value is TBA11. > > The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. The Value field > > consists of an eight-octet-long EUI-64 field. > > > > > > > >> Section 4.2.2 > >> > >> A Session-Sender MAY include the Source MAC Address sub-TLV is the > >> Location TLV. If the Session-Reflector receives the Location TLV > >> > >> nit: s/is/in/ > >> > > GIM>> Thank you. Fixed (and three more places in the same sub-section). > > > >> > >> Section 4.3 > >> > >> MUST NOT fill any information fields except for STAMP TLV Flags, > >> Type, and Length. All other fields MUST be filled with zeroes The > >> > >> nit: missing full stop. > >> > > GIM>> Done. > > From nobody Tue Oct 6 12:32:36 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528A33A0843; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:32:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.696 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.696 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_COMMENT_SAVED_URL=1.391, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_HTML_ATTACH=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id VoH8KakpQy9r; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:32:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x244.google.com (mail-lj1-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 638DC3A083B; Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:32:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x244.google.com with SMTP id r24so12129964ljm.3; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 12:32:21 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KNTpo2QmqRIcxKoqaTuJmCvwHa7b0CS6Td0idGSEvZA=; b=pmGBIWn6TafNyPIlpehGm5bL14cMNmXetX92Rb1kOt8us0cnaxAmHXIuz7U4/iPBpc I+1Hu94eg1aC+speGCIGVUbJi/JhCYjPAsKWFrDKYbHFRzCDqBeSBOtur6xehC5/TTtY 7rgcQdLFEcvOeCGmC9+xPZzpqrbz0MzepLsP1S4qLtaS1ZUcy8biMC9hvmxNC3UthMim 8lhgOO89vLW4L92RjqSesL4kWSwGo86CuECgtrFQSGJuZazlO6qzIEuPmh0CQSXKWF1u +TCnl1s7lShhJVWwlmhiXjr77Dmx9MWymIcdD3PyqKyO0+yaGdjh2FAkygCwwNFto2RP YTmw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KNTpo2QmqRIcxKoqaTuJmCvwHa7b0CS6Td0idGSEvZA=; b=p2YNSPZdplssumQXk0h2aoR89f4k/VfDOxPgsNS8RbNig+n5nOgV7inlE8E5ATH+XZ B+Io873kJjzvg2IMxhjM8Trnf+11iN0jFtRlKYgdjiBIhBY3rtzzLKgAbeKpsGQz4fC9 TbArKB4BuY4tVmrlSEBUyFqP5np1y4dud9XCnEMg/4BU8shDeR6Afioplg9Uvu0Q6uPy IvQo8G5dFZ+vnbImnUwX8FD9/4/demIxkiOlLq2x/xwiNwdAsHHjmzHl37GfYjNbP6sS QfoffgQnU69rIgLGSUNEW+31a/rb+XARH86fIuu3Y20W33njMEN6DPwoLRx+Sd0Scf5g 3StQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532DXZTRBf6OZ/puq17ZQPxWs+EMkxCB7f9ZsOCCZ/wOP/IrrGRh mRVpMxhxwTV0nCUOYZAqvMZJHLFmREcBwc2q6s0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwoLylQ/wT4q6hNzZtQ1PE2Ywb+xY6G0emr0m8k4B1FX+/PSKG0U9iVjrvYtHr4K7Zc/YSDjGPeD2Tt3F0jV0E= X-Received: by 2002:a05:651c:110:: with SMTP id a16mr2533999ljb.110.1602012739272; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 12:32:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159901891096.15973.17525194862666459811@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:32:08 -0700 Message-ID: To: Martin Duke Cc: Benjamin Kaduk , IPPM Chairs , draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org, The IESG , Yali Wang , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="000000000000405c1405b105a8e9" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:32:30 -0000 --000000000000405c1405b105a8e9 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000405c1105b105a8e7" --000000000000405c1105b105a8e7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Martin, I've applied the updates suggested by Ben to the working version (attached along with the diff). I'll be glad to upload the new version if that helps. Regards, Greg On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:04 PM Martin Duke wrote: > I believe the current status of this is that Ben is awaiting another > version of this draft to resolve his DISCUSS. If anyone has a different > understanding, please say so. > > On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:44 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > >> Hi Ben, >> thank you for your comments and suggestions, all are much appreciated. >> Please find my notes in-lined below tagged by GIM>>. Attached are the diff >> and the new working version of the draft. >> >> Regards, >> Greg >> >> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker < >> noreply@ietf.org> wrote: >> >>> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for >>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: Discuss >>> >>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>> >>> >>> Please refer to >>> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>> >>> >>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ >>> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> DISCUSS: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Thanks for all the updates; we've made good progress. >>> >>> I think we're still not converged on the DSCP handling, though. I have >>> a bit more exposition in the COMMENT section, but in short, my >>> understanding is that we're setting up a session-reflector to incur >>> unbounded levels of risk with hard protocol requirements. I think we >>> need to provide a way to bound that risk, for example by allowing the >>> Session-Reflector to selectively choose to treat the CoS TLV as >>> unimplemented (set the U flag in its reflected packet) or some other >>> mechanism for local policy to filter what DSCP codepoints are set in >>> reflected packets (ideally, indicating that the policy made a change). >>> >> GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the inter-QoS domain scenario. Clearly, >> it must be handled with more caution. Using the U flag is a very >> interesting approach. But wouldn't the Session-Sender skip the CoS TLV in >> the reflected packet? As a result, we may not retrieve information about >> the CoS mapping in the forward direction, i.e., towards the >> Session-Reflector. And it might be difficult for an operator to recognize >> whether the Session-Reflector doesn't support the particular CoS or STAMP >> extensions altogether. I would propose a new field being added in the CoS >> TLV: >> >> - RP (Reverse Path) - is a two-bit-long field. A Session-Sender >> MUST set the value of the RP field to 0 on transmission. >> >> And further in the section another update: >> A STAMP Session-Reflector that receives a test packet with the CoS >> TLV MUST include the CoS TLV in the reflected test packet. Also, the >> Session-Reflector MUST copy the value of the DSCP and ECN fields of >> the IP header of the received STAMP test packet into the DSCP2 field >> in the reflected test packet. Finally, the Session-Reflector MUST >> use the local policy to verify whether the CoS corresponding to the >> value of the DSCP1 field is permitted in the domain. If it is, the >> Session-Reflectorset MUST set the DSCP field's value in the IP header >> of the reflected test packet equal to the value of the DSCP1 field of >> the received test packet. Otherwise, the Session-Reflector MUST use >> the DSCP value of the received STAMP packet and set the value of the >> RP field to 1. Upon receiving the reflected packet, if the value of >> the RP field is 0, the Session-Sender will save the DSCP and ECN >> values for analysis of the CoS in the reverse direction. If the >> value of the RP field in the received reflected packet is 1, only CoS >> in the forward direction can be analyzed. >> >> Would these updates address your concern? >> >>> >>> Also, there's a bit of fallout from the flags reworking that's left to >>> cleanup in Section 4: we now have the Session-Sender set the U flag to >>> 1, so this text no longer makes sense: >>> >>> % A STAMP system, i.e., either a Session-Sender or a Session-Reflector, >>> % that has received a STAMP test packet with extension TLVs MUST >>> % validate each TLV: >>> % >>> % If the U flag is set, the STAMP system MUST skip the processing of >>> % the TLV. >>> >>> I think it should just apply to the Session-Sender for this case -- the >>> Session-Reflector doesn't need to check the received U flag, since the >>> Session-Sender will not be generating TLVs it does not understand. >>> (Whether or not to keep the behavior for the M and I flags as applying >>> to both Session-Sender and Session-Reflector vs. just Session-Sender >>> does not immediately seem to be of much consequence. >>> >> GIM>> Thank you for catching this. Indeed, that brakes STAMP with >> extensions. I think that though checking M and I flags of a >> Session-Reflector should not do any harm, it doesn't seem to have any >> benefits. Hence we may remove the Session-Reflector from the sentence and >> the updated introduction to the flag processing reads like below: >> A STAMP Session-Sender that has received a reflected STAMP test >> packet with extension TLVs MUST validate each TLV: >> >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> COMMENT: >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> My most significant remaining comments are on the Security >>> Considerations (Section 6): >>> >>> The security of the HMAC mechanism is not complete, since it is >>> susceptible to replay attack. As such, when HMAC is in use, it is >>> important to check that the received sequence numbers are (at least >>> mostly) monotonic and to detect replays. While replayed packets do not >>> always indicate an attack (depending on the network technology) they are >>> still a noteworthy condition, and we should say something about whether >>> we expect to produce a response to each received instance or to suppress >>> replies to replayed input. >>> >> GIM>> Is there a reliable mechanism to distinguish between an >> out-of-order duplicated packet and a replayed packet? I've checked RFC 5357 >> TWAMP for any suggestion and believe that there is no special consideration >> by a Session-Reflector for an out-of-order duplicated packet. The TWAMP >> Session-Reflector does not monitor whether the sequence numbers of the >> received test packets are in the monotonically increasing sequence. STAMP >> is designed to be comparable with TWAMP and have some level of >> interoperability. Hence, discarding what appears as a replayed packet at a >> STAMP Session-Reflector might be less desirable behavior. If we follow >> TWAMP's behavior, what else can be done at the Session-Reflector to >> strengthen the security? >> >>> >>> Monitoring and optional control of DSCP do not appear to introduce >>> any additional security threat to hosts that communicate with STAMP >>> as defined in [RFC8762]. As this specification defined the mechanism >>> to test DSCP mapping, this document inherits all the security >>> >>> I'm afraid I still don't understand the reasoning here. In my >>> understanding, the risk stems from the semantics of the DCSP field being >>> (for at least some codepoints) site-local, there not being a guarantee >>> that the session-sender and session-reflector are on the same network >>> (and thus, using the same DSCP semantics), and the hard requirement for >>> the Session-Reflector to set the DCSP value indicated by the >>> Session-Sender. A mechanism for a remote entity to induce generation of >>> local packets with unspecified semantics is a risk that cannot be >>> qualified at protocol-design time, since the possible outcomes are >>> inherently unspecified. This is analogous to the situation with >>> undefined behavior in programming languages like C -- the programmer is >>> flat-out required to avoid it, because literally anything could go wrong >>> if undefined behavior is triggered. >>> >> GIM>> I agree that the inter-QoS domain case requires more consideration >> in the Security section. I propose the updated text below: >> >> As this specification defined the mechanism to test DSCP mapping, >> this document inherits all the security considerations discussed in >> [RFC2474]. Monitoring and optional control of DSCP using the CoS TLV >> may be used across the Internet so that the Session-Sender and the >> Session-Reflector are located in domains that use different CoS >> profiles. Thus, it is essential that an operator verifies the set of >> CoS values that are used in the Session-Reflector's domain. Also, an >> implementation of a Session-Reflector SHOULD support a local policy >> to confirm whether the value sent by the Session-Sender can be used >> as the value of the DSCP field. Section 4.4 defines the use of that >> local policy. >> >> >> >>> >>> This is especially risky when there is the possibility for the >>> Session-Reflector to act on packets that do not have any form of >>> authentication (i.e., could be spoofed from off-path). But we do not >>> mention this risk at all, let alone give guidance on its mitigation. >>> (Discussion of the security considerations of unauthenticated operation >>> would ideally be generalized to all actions/TLVs that have side effects, >>> not just the specific case of setting the DSCP codepoint.) >>> >> GIM>> It seems very challenging for a STAMP system to differentiate >> between a duplicate and/or out-of-order test packet and a replayed packet >> because one of the metrics STAMP test measures is the network re-ordering >> metric per RFC 4737 . We may >> recommend that the rate-limiting of test packets be selected >> conservatively. >> >>> >>> Section 4.2 >>> >>> I'd suggest saying that all fields that are not filled are transmitted >>> with all bits set to zero. >>> >> GIM>> Thank you for the helpful suggestion. Appended Section 4.2: >> Note that all fields not filled by either a Session-Sender or >> Session-Reflector are transmitted with all bits set to zero. >> >>> >>> Section 4.2.1 >>> >>> o Source MAC Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV. The Type >>> value is TBA9. The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. >>> The Value field is a 12-octet-long MBZ field that MUST be zeroed >>> on transmission and ignored on receipt. >>> >>> Value should be 8-octets-long, no? >>> >> GIM>> Thank you for catching it! You are absolutely correct. Fixed this >> and a similar in: >> o Source EUI-64 Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV that >> includes the EUI-64 source MAC address. The Type value is TBA11. >> The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. The Value field >> consists of an eight-octet-long EUI-64 field. >> >> >> >>> Section 4.2.2 >>> >>> A Session-Sender MAY include the Source MAC Address sub-TLV is the >>> Location TLV. If the Session-Reflector receives the Location TLV >>> >>> nit: s/is/in/ >>> >> GIM>> Thank you. Fixed (and three more places in the same sub-section). >> >>> >>> Section 4.3 >>> >>> MUST NOT fill any information fields except for STAMP TLV Flags, >>> Type, and Length. All other fields MUST be filled with zeroes The >>> >>> nit: missing full stop. >>> >> GIM>> Done. >> > --000000000000405c1105b105a8e7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Martin,
I've applied the updates suggested by B= en to the working version (attached along with the diff). I'll be glad = to upload the new version if that helps.

Regards,<= /div>
Greg

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:04 PM Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote:<= br>
I believe the current status of this is that Ben is awaiting another versi= on of this draft to resolve his DISCUSS. If anyone has a different understa= nding, please say so.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:44 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com<= /a>> wrote:
<= div dir=3D"ltr">
Hi Ben,
thank you for your comments an= d suggestions, all are much appreciated. Please find my notes in-lined belo= w tagged=C2=A0by GIM>>. Attached are the diff and the new working ver= sion of the draft.

Regards,
Greg

On= Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.org> wrote:<= br>
Benjamin Kaduk h= as entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s= tatement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for all the updates; we've made good progress.

I think we're still not converged on the DSCP handling, though.=C2=A0 I= have
a bit more exposition in the COMMENT section, but in short, my
understanding is that we're setting up a session-reflector to incur
unbounded levels of risk with hard protocol requirements.=C2=A0 I think we<= br> need to provide a way to bound that risk, for example by allowing the
Session-Reflector to selectively choose to treat the CoS TLV as
unimplemented (set the U flag in its reflected packet) or some other
mechanism for local policy to filter what DSCP codepoints are set in
reflected packets (ideally, indicating that the policy made a change).
<= /blockquote>
GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the inter-QoS domain= scenario. Clearly, it must be handled=C2=A0with more caution. Using the U = flag is a very interesting approach. But wouldn't the Session-Sender sk= ip the CoS TLV in the reflected packet? As a result, we may not retrieve in= formation about the CoS mapping in the forward direction, i.e., towards the= Session-Reflector. And it might be difficult for an operator to recognize = whether the Session-Reflector doesn't support the particular CoS or STA= MP extensions altogether. I would propose a new field being added in the Co= S TLV:=C2=A0
  • =C2=A0 =C2=A0RP (Reverse Path) - is a two-bi= t-long field.=C2=A0 A Session-Sender
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST set the value of = the RP field to 0 on transmission.
And further in the section = another update:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A STAMP Session-Reflector that recei= ves a test packet with the CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TLV MUST include the CoS TLV= in the reflected test packet.=C2=A0 Also, the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Refl= ector MUST copy the value of the DSCP and ECN fields of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the= IP header of the received STAMP test packet into the DSCP2 field
=C2=A0= =C2=A0in the reflected test packet.=C2=A0 Finally, the Session-Reflector M= UST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use the local policy to verify whether the CoS correspo= nding to the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0value of the DSCP1 field is permitted in the d= omain.=C2=A0 If it is, the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Reflectorset MUST set th= e DSCP field's value in the IP header
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the reflected = test packet equal to the value of the DSCP1 field of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the re= ceived test packet.=C2=A0 Otherwise, the Session-Reflector MUST use
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0the DSCP value of the received STAMP packet and set the value of = the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RP field to 1.=C2=A0 Upon receiving the reflected packe= t, if the value of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the RP field is 0, the Session-Sender wi= ll save the DSCP and ECN
=C2=A0 =C2=A0values for analysis of the CoS in = the reverse direction.=C2=A0 If the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0value of the RP field i= n the received reflected packet is 1, only CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the forwa= rd direction can be analyzed.

Would these upda= tes address your concern?

Also, there's a bit of fallout from the flags reworking that's left= to
cleanup in Section 4: we now have the Session-Sender set the U flag to
1, so this text no longer makes sense:

% A STAMP system, i.e., either a Session-Sender or a Session-Reflector,
% that has received a STAMP test packet with extension TLVs MUST
% validate each TLV:
%
%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the U flag is set, the STAMP system MUST skip the process= ing of
%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the TLV.

I think it should just apply to the Session-Sender for this case -- the
Session-Reflector doesn't need to check the received U flag, since the<= br> Session-Sender will not be generating TLVs it does not understand.
(Whether or not to keep the behavior for the M and I flags as applying
to both Session-Sender and Session-Reflector vs. just Session-Sender
does not immediately seem to be of much consequence.
G= IM>> Thank you for catching this. Indeed, that brakes STAMP with exte= nsions. I think that though checking M and I flags of a Session-Reflector s= hould not do any harm, it doesn't seem to have any benefits. Hence we m= ay remove the Session-Reflector from the sentence and the updated introduct= ion to the flag processing reads like below:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A STAMP= Session-Sender that has received a reflected STAMP test
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pa= cket with extension TLVs MUST validate each TLV:


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

My most significant remaining comments are on the Security
Considerations (Section 6):

The security of the HMAC mechanism is not complete, since it is
susceptible to replay attack.=C2=A0 As such, when HMAC is in use, it is
important to check that the received sequence numbers are (at least
mostly) monotonic and to detect replays.=C2=A0 While replayed packets do no= t
always indicate an attack (depending on the network technology) they are still a noteworthy condition, and we should say something about whether
we expect to produce a response to each received instance or to suppress replies to replayed input.
GIM>> Is there a reli= able mechanism to distinguish between an out-of-order duplicated packet and= a replayed packet? I've checked RFC 5357 TWAMP for any suggestion and = believe that there is no special consideration by a Session-Reflector for a= n out-of-order duplicated packet. The TWAMP Session-Reflector does not moni= tor whether the sequence numbers of the received test packets are in the mo= notonically increasing sequence. STAMP is designed to be comparable with TW= AMP and have some level of interoperability. Hence, discarding what appears= as a replayed packet at a STAMP Session-Reflector might be less desirable = behavior. If we follow TWAMP's=C2=A0behavior, what else can be done at = the Session-Reflector to strengthen the security?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Monitoring and optional control of DSCP do not appear to intro= duce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0any additional security threat to hosts that communicate with = STAMP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as defined in [RFC8762].=C2=A0 As this specification defined t= he mechanism
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to test DSCP mapping, this document inherits all the security<= br>
I'm afraid I still don't understand the reasoning here.=C2=A0 In my=
understanding, the risk stems from the semantics of the DCSP field being (for at least some codepoints) site-local, there not being a guarantee
that the session-sender and session-reflector are on the same network
(and thus, using the same DSCP semantics), and the hard requirement for
the Session-Reflector to set the DCSP value indicated by the
Session-Sender.=C2=A0 A mechanism for a remote entity to induce generation = of
local packets with unspecified semantics is a risk that cannot be
qualified at protocol-design time, since the possible outcomes are
inherently unspecified.=C2=A0 This is analogous to the situation with
undefined behavior in programming languages like C -- the programmer is
flat-out required to avoid it, because literally anything could go wrong if undefined behavior is triggered.
GIM>> I agre= e that the inter-QoS domain case requires more consideration in the Securit= y section. I propose the updated text below:

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0As this specification defined the mechanism to test DSCP mapping,=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this document inherits all the security considerations dis= cussed in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2474].=C2=A0 Monitoring and optional control = of DSCP using the CoS TLV
=C2=A0 =C2=A0may be used across the Internet s= o that the Session-Sender and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Reflector are loc= ated in domains that use different CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0profiles.=C2=A0 Thus= , it is essential that an operator verifies the set of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0CoS = values that are used in the Session-Reflector's domain.=C2=A0 Also, an<= br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation of a Session-Reflector SHOULD support a loca= l policy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to confirm whether the value sent by the Session-S= ender can be used
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as the value of the DSCP field.=C2=A0 Sec= tion 4.4 defines the use of that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0local policy.

=C2=A0

This is especially risky when there is the possibility for the
Session-Reflector to act on packets that do not have any form of
authentication (i.e., could be spoofed from off-path).=C2=A0 But we do not<= br> mention this risk at all, let alone give guidance on its mitigation.
(Discussion of the security considerations of unauthenticated operation
would ideally be generalized to all actions/TLVs that have side effects, not just the specific case of setting the DSCP codepoint.)
=
GIM>> It seems very challenging for a STAMP system to differenti= ate between a duplicate and/or out-of-order test packet and a replayed pack= et because one of the metrics STAMP test measures is the network re-orderin= g metric per RFC 4737. We may recommend that the rate-limiting of test packets b= e selected conservatively.=C2=A0

Section 4.2

I'd suggest saying that all fields that are not filled are transmitted<= br> with all bits set to zero.
GIM>> Thank you for t= he helpful suggestion. Appended Section 4.2:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note th= at all fields not filled by either a Session-Sender or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sess= ion-Reflector are transmitted with all bits set to zero.

Section 4.2.1

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Source MAC Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TL= V.=C2=A0 The Type
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 value is TBA9.=C2=A0 The value of the Length field MUS= T equal to 8.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Value field is a 12-octet-long MBZ field that MUST= be zeroed
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission and ignored on receipt.

Value should be 8-octets-long, no?
GIM>> Thank y= ou for catching it! You are absolutely correct. Fixed this and a similar in= :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0Source EUI-64 Address sub-TLV - is a 12-oc= tet-long sub-TLV that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 includes the EUI-64 source MA= C address.=C2=A0 The Type value is TBA11.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The value= of the Length field MUST equal to 8.=C2=A0 The Value field
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 consists of an eight-octet-long EUI-64 field.

=

Section 4.2.2

=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Session-Sender MAY include the Source MAC Address sub-TLV is= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Location TLV.=C2=A0 If the Session-Reflector receives the Loca= tion TLV

nit: s/is/in/
GIM>> Thank you. Fixed (and three = more places in the same sub-section).=C2=A0

Section 4.3

=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST NOT fill any information fields except for STAMP TLV Flag= s,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Type, and Length.=C2=A0 All other fields MUST be filled with z= eroes The

nit: missing full stop.
GIM>> Done.=C2=A0
<= /div>
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h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=ie9za4egtehDAS+rhze1LhuRYRImAkl3nhTOluCrydA=; b=i7OJWLVygsI7A1GTlC1FDnP6L4mxmrvI0RF7I9KdVgtvkmg1VAb77hlqRskcqcBAzZ Y+pB5IzmmFuG9MqSmfXY7FeYdBy1ZOybUM3MSnqB08WhA5xPgzUMZbFa5W2iQocgAVeZ KI1ia6d0BwHEBuDBoeBM3SEQEeOqy4IQAFtEkKOUKZm9a/4QcbWcH4eCn5Nsx6WmpRVn SEo04Y+IbZvwf/gfwhsn/zF+NBQVQYss4iwfMbzV70C9JIo3W6G5k/DXPtQpnIx9jb/r 8ICh7QlNywrN/UVMNK0AKlxj45x+xqyaZ/o8uch1/PRL7cLDUBNtcXMbABFcg8Ky91yf OlUA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=ie9za4egtehDAS+rhze1LhuRYRImAkl3nhTOluCrydA=; b=SrErORYXxGR/ava8W0xgHD1omD+1lPjQxUDKOEm3f9QQNkzvK6Uvy/JBvpoDtSH/YA JzZPzS+F66uOhrG3O7ZbP5WEvtX8YWN8LTHGEfN3nhITKlvqH7zAmD2AOwIi9a4sBBUf tnwGLzItX/IRjjeVllCg4DY1llF2VIYQEEWbIcOD3s3FDPg3Oc6ny1efmRUIjv78jgPU JD7FhLhvajoap2TMDun0Y8Gdb8bTCJv67RfLRPC1xcIizv6bwUH8u+srWXUp23CTpg7B U25p1ZG3ukF8bxxaivFNG/iWTT5KLjCa4jV4mTBEwgfoQuVmyHK5fjF9AHgpxLCClrbo eI9A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532cIWmtZHvUGbL4z6y2V28R4+np2BRrk4TUdnUcMEQyJFmUndtj o3VF7agP5nm7hJHdqAY7oDredCUPeK/83LhsaoI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzEw/JueqnslaCM3KQjKVaef/9ZBZG+3zE3WH6QwF0ZxVpTTRE1o/Ah3ATxMl2+wZ67wS6oyHNvc8MYfH/Y1cs= X-Received: by 2002:a02:ccdb:: with SMTP id k27mr2726680jaq.103.1602013349631; Tue, 06 Oct 2020 12:42:29 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <159901891096.15973.17525194862666459811@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Martin Duke Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2020 12:42:17 -0700 Message-ID: To: Greg Mirsky Cc: Benjamin Kaduk , IPPM Chairs , draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv@ietf.org, The IESG , Yali Wang , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000a15ac205b105ccfd" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Benjamin Kaduk's Discuss on draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: (with DISCUSS and COMMENT) X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2020 19:42:34 -0000 --000000000000a15ac205b105ccfd Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" OK, Ben has the token. Thanks. On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:32 PM Greg Mirsky wrote: > Hi Martin, > I've applied the updates suggested by Ben to the working version (attached > along with the diff). I'll be glad to upload the new version if that helps. > > Regards, > Greg > > On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:04 PM Martin Duke > wrote: > >> I believe the current status of this is that Ben is awaiting another >> version of this draft to resolve his DISCUSS. If anyone has a different >> understanding, please say so. >> >> On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:44 PM Greg Mirsky >> wrote: >> >>> Hi Ben, >>> thank you for your comments and suggestions, all are much appreciated. >>> Please find my notes in-lined below tagged by GIM>>. Attached are the diff >>> and the new working version of the draft. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Greg >>> >>> On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Kaduk via Datatracker < >>> noreply@ietf.org> wrote: >>> >>>> Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for >>>> draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: Discuss >>>> >>>> When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all >>>> email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this >>>> introductory paragraph, however.) >>>> >>>> >>>> Please refer to >>>> https://www.ietf.org/iesg/statement/discuss-criteria.html >>>> for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions. >>>> >>>> >>>> The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here: >>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/ >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> DISCUSS: >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> Thanks for all the updates; we've made good progress. >>>> >>>> I think we're still not converged on the DSCP handling, though. I have >>>> a bit more exposition in the COMMENT section, but in short, my >>>> understanding is that we're setting up a session-reflector to incur >>>> unbounded levels of risk with hard protocol requirements. I think we >>>> need to provide a way to bound that risk, for example by allowing the >>>> Session-Reflector to selectively choose to treat the CoS TLV as >>>> unimplemented (set the U flag in its reflected packet) or some other >>>> mechanism for local policy to filter what DSCP codepoints are set in >>>> reflected packets (ideally, indicating that the policy made a change). >>>> >>> GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the inter-QoS domain scenario. Clearly, >>> it must be handled with more caution. Using the U flag is a very >>> interesting approach. But wouldn't the Session-Sender skip the CoS TLV in >>> the reflected packet? As a result, we may not retrieve information about >>> the CoS mapping in the forward direction, i.e., towards the >>> Session-Reflector. And it might be difficult for an operator to recognize >>> whether the Session-Reflector doesn't support the particular CoS or STAMP >>> extensions altogether. I would propose a new field being added in the CoS >>> TLV: >>> >>> - RP (Reverse Path) - is a two-bit-long field. A Session-Sender >>> MUST set the value of the RP field to 0 on transmission. >>> >>> And further in the section another update: >>> A STAMP Session-Reflector that receives a test packet with the CoS >>> TLV MUST include the CoS TLV in the reflected test packet. Also, the >>> Session-Reflector MUST copy the value of the DSCP and ECN fields of >>> the IP header of the received STAMP test packet into the DSCP2 field >>> in the reflected test packet. Finally, the Session-Reflector MUST >>> use the local policy to verify whether the CoS corresponding to the >>> value of the DSCP1 field is permitted in the domain. If it is, the >>> Session-Reflectorset MUST set the DSCP field's value in the IP header >>> of the reflected test packet equal to the value of the DSCP1 field of >>> the received test packet. Otherwise, the Session-Reflector MUST use >>> the DSCP value of the received STAMP packet and set the value of the >>> RP field to 1. Upon receiving the reflected packet, if the value of >>> the RP field is 0, the Session-Sender will save the DSCP and ECN >>> values for analysis of the CoS in the reverse direction. If the >>> value of the RP field in the received reflected packet is 1, only CoS >>> in the forward direction can be analyzed. >>> >>> Would these updates address your concern? >>> >>>> >>>> Also, there's a bit of fallout from the flags reworking that's left to >>>> cleanup in Section 4: we now have the Session-Sender set the U flag to >>>> 1, so this text no longer makes sense: >>>> >>>> % A STAMP system, i.e., either a Session-Sender or a Session-Reflector, >>>> % that has received a STAMP test packet with extension TLVs MUST >>>> % validate each TLV: >>>> % >>>> % If the U flag is set, the STAMP system MUST skip the processing of >>>> % the TLV. >>>> >>>> I think it should just apply to the Session-Sender for this case -- the >>>> Session-Reflector doesn't need to check the received U flag, since the >>>> Session-Sender will not be generating TLVs it does not understand. >>>> (Whether or not to keep the behavior for the M and I flags as applying >>>> to both Session-Sender and Session-Reflector vs. just Session-Sender >>>> does not immediately seem to be of much consequence. >>>> >>> GIM>> Thank you for catching this. Indeed, that brakes STAMP with >>> extensions. I think that though checking M and I flags of a >>> Session-Reflector should not do any harm, it doesn't seem to have any >>> benefits. Hence we may remove the Session-Reflector from the sentence and >>> the updated introduction to the flag processing reads like below: >>> A STAMP Session-Sender that has received a reflected STAMP test >>> packet with extension TLVs MUST validate each TLV: >>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> COMMENT: >>>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>>> >>>> My most significant remaining comments are on the Security >>>> Considerations (Section 6): >>>> >>>> The security of the HMAC mechanism is not complete, since it is >>>> susceptible to replay attack. As such, when HMAC is in use, it is >>>> important to check that the received sequence numbers are (at least >>>> mostly) monotonic and to detect replays. While replayed packets do not >>>> always indicate an attack (depending on the network technology) they are >>>> still a noteworthy condition, and we should say something about whether >>>> we expect to produce a response to each received instance or to suppress >>>> replies to replayed input. >>>> >>> GIM>> Is there a reliable mechanism to distinguish between an >>> out-of-order duplicated packet and a replayed packet? I've checked RFC 5357 >>> TWAMP for any suggestion and believe that there is no special consideration >>> by a Session-Reflector for an out-of-order duplicated packet. The TWAMP >>> Session-Reflector does not monitor whether the sequence numbers of the >>> received test packets are in the monotonically increasing sequence. STAMP >>> is designed to be comparable with TWAMP and have some level of >>> interoperability. Hence, discarding what appears as a replayed packet at a >>> STAMP Session-Reflector might be less desirable behavior. If we follow >>> TWAMP's behavior, what else can be done at the Session-Reflector to >>> strengthen the security? >>> >>>> >>>> Monitoring and optional control of DSCP do not appear to introduce >>>> any additional security threat to hosts that communicate with STAMP >>>> as defined in [RFC8762]. As this specification defined the mechanism >>>> to test DSCP mapping, this document inherits all the security >>>> >>>> I'm afraid I still don't understand the reasoning here. In my >>>> understanding, the risk stems from the semantics of the DCSP field being >>>> (for at least some codepoints) site-local, there not being a guarantee >>>> that the session-sender and session-reflector are on the same network >>>> (and thus, using the same DSCP semantics), and the hard requirement for >>>> the Session-Reflector to set the DCSP value indicated by the >>>> Session-Sender. A mechanism for a remote entity to induce generation of >>>> local packets with unspecified semantics is a risk that cannot be >>>> qualified at protocol-design time, since the possible outcomes are >>>> inherently unspecified. This is analogous to the situation with >>>> undefined behavior in programming languages like C -- the programmer is >>>> flat-out required to avoid it, because literally anything could go wrong >>>> if undefined behavior is triggered. >>>> >>> GIM>> I agree that the inter-QoS domain case requires more consideration >>> in the Security section. I propose the updated text below: >>> >>> As this specification defined the mechanism to test DSCP mapping, >>> this document inherits all the security considerations discussed in >>> [RFC2474]. Monitoring and optional control of DSCP using the CoS TLV >>> may be used across the Internet so that the Session-Sender and the >>> Session-Reflector are located in domains that use different CoS >>> profiles. Thus, it is essential that an operator verifies the set of >>> CoS values that are used in the Session-Reflector's domain. Also, an >>> implementation of a Session-Reflector SHOULD support a local policy >>> to confirm whether the value sent by the Session-Sender can be used >>> as the value of the DSCP field. Section 4.4 defines the use of that >>> local policy. >>> >>> >>> >>>> >>>> This is especially risky when there is the possibility for the >>>> Session-Reflector to act on packets that do not have any form of >>>> authentication (i.e., could be spoofed from off-path). But we do not >>>> mention this risk at all, let alone give guidance on its mitigation. >>>> (Discussion of the security considerations of unauthenticated operation >>>> would ideally be generalized to all actions/TLVs that have side effects, >>>> not just the specific case of setting the DSCP codepoint.) >>>> >>> GIM>> It seems very challenging for a STAMP system to differentiate >>> between a duplicate and/or out-of-order test packet and a replayed packet >>> because one of the metrics STAMP test measures is the network re-ordering >>> metric per RFC 4737 . We may >>> recommend that the rate-limiting of test packets be selected >>> conservatively. >>> >>>> >>>> Section 4.2 >>>> >>>> I'd suggest saying that all fields that are not filled are transmitted >>>> with all bits set to zero. >>>> >>> GIM>> Thank you for the helpful suggestion. Appended Section 4.2: >>> Note that all fields not filled by either a Session-Sender or >>> Session-Reflector are transmitted with all bits set to zero. >>> >>>> >>>> Section 4.2.1 >>>> >>>> o Source MAC Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV. The Type >>>> value is TBA9. The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. >>>> The Value field is a 12-octet-long MBZ field that MUST be zeroed >>>> on transmission and ignored on receipt. >>>> >>>> Value should be 8-octets-long, no? >>>> >>> GIM>> Thank you for catching it! You are absolutely correct. Fixed this >>> and a similar in: >>> o Source EUI-64 Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TLV that >>> includes the EUI-64 source MAC address. The Type value is TBA11. >>> The value of the Length field MUST equal to 8. The Value field >>> consists of an eight-octet-long EUI-64 field. >>> >>> >>> >>>> Section 4.2.2 >>>> >>>> A Session-Sender MAY include the Source MAC Address sub-TLV is the >>>> Location TLV. If the Session-Reflector receives the Location TLV >>>> >>>> nit: s/is/in/ >>>> >>> GIM>> Thank you. Fixed (and three more places in the same sub-section). >>> >>>> >>>> Section 4.3 >>>> >>>> MUST NOT fill any information fields except for STAMP TLV Flags, >>>> Type, and Length. All other fields MUST be filled with zeroes The >>>> >>>> nit: missing full stop. >>>> >>> GIM>> Done. >>> >> --000000000000a15ac205b105ccfd Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
OK, Ben has the token. Thanks.

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:32= PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Hi Martin,
I've applied the updates suggest= ed by Ben to the working version (attached along with the diff). I'll b= e glad to upload the new version if that helps.

Re= gards,
Greg

On Tue, Oct 6, 2020 at 12:04 PM Martin Duke <= martin.h.duke@= gmail.com> wrote:
I believe the current status of this is that Be= n is awaiting another version of this draft to resolve his DISCUSS. If anyo= ne has a different understanding, please say so.

On Thu, Sep 3, 2020 at 12:4= 4 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi Ben,
tha= nk you for your comments and suggestions, all are much appreciated. Please = find my notes in-lined below tagged=C2=A0by GIM>>. Attached are the d= iff and the new working version of the draft.

Rega= rds,
Greg

On Tue, Sep 1, 2020 at 8:55 PM Benjamin Kaduk via = Datatracker <norep= ly@ietf.org> wrote:
Benjamin Kaduk has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09: Discuss

When responding, please keep the subject line intact and reply to all
email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
introductory paragraph, however.)


Please refer to https://www.ietf.org/iesg/s= tatement/discuss-criteria.html
for more information about IESG DISCUSS and COMMENT positions.


The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/d= raft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for all the updates; we've made good progress.

I think we're still not converged on the DSCP handling, though.=C2=A0 I= have
a bit more exposition in the COMMENT section, but in short, my
understanding is that we're setting up a session-reflector to incur
unbounded levels of risk with hard protocol requirements.=C2=A0 I think we<= br> need to provide a way to bound that risk, for example by allowing the
Session-Reflector to selectively choose to treat the CoS TLV as
unimplemented (set the U flag in its reflected packet) or some other
mechanism for local policy to filter what DSCP codepoints are set in
reflected packets (ideally, indicating that the policy made a change).
<= /blockquote>
GIM>> Thank you for pointing to the inter-QoS domain= scenario. Clearly, it must be handled=C2=A0with more caution. Using the U = flag is a very interesting approach. But wouldn't the Session-Sender sk= ip the CoS TLV in the reflected packet? As a result, we may not retrieve in= formation about the CoS mapping in the forward direction, i.e., towards the= Session-Reflector. And it might be difficult for an operator to recognize = whether the Session-Reflector doesn't support the particular CoS or STA= MP extensions altogether. I would propose a new field being added in the Co= S TLV:=C2=A0
  • =C2=A0 =C2=A0RP (Reverse Path) - is a two-bi= t-long field.=C2=A0 A Session-Sender
    =C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST set the value of = the RP field to 0 on transmission.
And further in the section = another update:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A STAMP Session-Reflector that recei= ves a test packet with the CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0TLV MUST include the CoS TLV= in the reflected test packet.=C2=A0 Also, the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Refl= ector MUST copy the value of the DSCP and ECN fields of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the= IP header of the received STAMP test packet into the DSCP2 field
=C2=A0= =C2=A0in the reflected test packet.=C2=A0 Finally, the Session-Reflector M= UST
=C2=A0 =C2=A0use the local policy to verify whether the CoS correspo= nding to the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0value of the DSCP1 field is permitted in the d= omain.=C2=A0 If it is, the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Reflectorset MUST set th= e DSCP field's value in the IP header
=C2=A0 =C2=A0of the reflected = test packet equal to the value of the DSCP1 field of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the re= ceived test packet.=C2=A0 Otherwise, the Session-Reflector MUST use
=C2= =A0 =C2=A0the DSCP value of the received STAMP packet and set the value of = the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0RP field to 1.=C2=A0 Upon receiving the reflected packe= t, if the value of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the RP field is 0, the Session-Sender wi= ll save the DSCP and ECN
=C2=A0 =C2=A0values for analysis of the CoS in = the reverse direction.=C2=A0 If the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0value of the RP field i= n the received reflected packet is 1, only CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0in the forwa= rd direction can be analyzed.

Would these upda= tes address your concern?

Also, there's a bit of fallout from the flags reworking that's left= to
cleanup in Section 4: we now have the Session-Sender set the U flag to
1, so this text no longer makes sense:

% A STAMP system, i.e., either a Session-Sender or a Session-Reflector,
% that has received a STAMP test packet with extension TLVs MUST
% validate each TLV:
%
%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 If the U flag is set, the STAMP system MUST skip the process= ing of
%=C2=A0 =C2=A0 the TLV.

I think it should just apply to the Session-Sender for this case -- the
Session-Reflector doesn't need to check the received U flag, since the<= br> Session-Sender will not be generating TLVs it does not understand.
(Whether or not to keep the behavior for the M and I flags as applying
to both Session-Sender and Session-Reflector vs. just Session-Sender
does not immediately seem to be of much consequence.
G= IM>> Thank you for catching this. Indeed, that brakes STAMP with exte= nsions. I think that though checking M and I flags of a Session-Reflector s= hould not do any harm, it doesn't seem to have any benefits. Hence we m= ay remove the Session-Reflector from the sentence and the updated introduct= ion to the flag processing reads like below:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0A STAMP= Session-Sender that has received a reflected STAMP test
=C2=A0 =C2=A0pa= cket with extension TLVs MUST validate each TLV:


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

My most significant remaining comments are on the Security
Considerations (Section 6):

The security of the HMAC mechanism is not complete, since it is
susceptible to replay attack.=C2=A0 As such, when HMAC is in use, it is
important to check that the received sequence numbers are (at least
mostly) monotonic and to detect replays.=C2=A0 While replayed packets do no= t
always indicate an attack (depending on the network technology) they are still a noteworthy condition, and we should say something about whether
we expect to produce a response to each received instance or to suppress replies to replayed input.
GIM>> Is there a reli= able mechanism to distinguish between an out-of-order duplicated packet and= a replayed packet? I've checked RFC 5357 TWAMP for any suggestion and = believe that there is no special consideration by a Session-Reflector for a= n out-of-order duplicated packet. The TWAMP Session-Reflector does not moni= tor whether the sequence numbers of the received test packets are in the mo= notonically increasing sequence. STAMP is designed to be comparable with TW= AMP and have some level of interoperability. Hence, discarding what appears= as a replayed packet at a STAMP Session-Reflector might be less desirable = behavior. If we follow TWAMP's=C2=A0behavior, what else can be done at = the Session-Reflector to strengthen the security?

=C2=A0 =C2=A0Monitoring and optional control of DSCP do not appear to intro= duce
=C2=A0 =C2=A0any additional security threat to hosts that communicate with = STAMP
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as defined in [RFC8762].=C2=A0 As this specification defined t= he mechanism
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to test DSCP mapping, this document inherits all the security<= br>
I'm afraid I still don't understand the reasoning here.=C2=A0 In my=
understanding, the risk stems from the semantics of the DCSP field being (for at least some codepoints) site-local, there not being a guarantee
that the session-sender and session-reflector are on the same network
(and thus, using the same DSCP semantics), and the hard requirement for
the Session-Reflector to set the DCSP value indicated by the
Session-Sender.=C2=A0 A mechanism for a remote entity to induce generation = of
local packets with unspecified semantics is a risk that cannot be
qualified at protocol-design time, since the possible outcomes are
inherently unspecified.=C2=A0 This is analogous to the situation with
undefined behavior in programming languages like C -- the programmer is
flat-out required to avoid it, because literally anything could go wrong if undefined behavior is triggered.
GIM>> I agre= e that the inter-QoS domain case requires more consideration in the Securit= y section. I propose the updated text below:

=C2= =A0 =C2=A0As this specification defined the mechanism to test DSCP mapping,=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0this document inherits all the security considerations dis= cussed in
=C2=A0 =C2=A0[RFC2474].=C2=A0 Monitoring and optional control = of DSCP using the CoS TLV
=C2=A0 =C2=A0may be used across the Internet s= o that the Session-Sender and the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Session-Reflector are loc= ated in domains that use different CoS
=C2=A0 =C2=A0profiles.=C2=A0 Thus= , it is essential that an operator verifies the set of
=C2=A0 =C2=A0CoS = values that are used in the Session-Reflector's domain.=C2=A0 Also, an<= br>=C2=A0 =C2=A0implementation of a Session-Reflector SHOULD support a loca= l policy
=C2=A0 =C2=A0to confirm whether the value sent by the Session-S= ender can be used
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as the value of the DSCP field.=C2=A0 Sec= tion 4.4 defines the use of that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0local policy.

=C2=A0

This is especially risky when there is the possibility for the
Session-Reflector to act on packets that do not have any form of
authentication (i.e., could be spoofed from off-path).=C2=A0 But we do not<= br> mention this risk at all, let alone give guidance on its mitigation.
(Discussion of the security considerations of unauthenticated operation
would ideally be generalized to all actions/TLVs that have side effects, not just the specific case of setting the DSCP codepoint.)
=
GIM>> It seems very challenging for a STAMP system to differenti= ate between a duplicate and/or out-of-order test packet and a replayed pack= et because one of the metrics STAMP test measures is the network re-orderin= g metric per RFC 4737. We may recommend that the rate-limiting of test packets b= e selected conservatively.=C2=A0

Section 4.2

I'd suggest saying that all fields that are not filled are transmitted<= br> with all bits set to zero.
GIM>> Thank you for t= he helpful suggestion. Appended Section 4.2:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Note th= at all fields not filled by either a Session-Sender or
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Sess= ion-Reflector are transmitted with all bits set to zero.

Section 4.2.1

=C2=A0 =C2=A0o=C2=A0 Source MAC Address sub-TLV - is a 12-octet-long sub-TL= V.=C2=A0 The Type
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 value is TBA9.=C2=A0 The value of the Length field MUS= T equal to 8.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The Value field is a 12-octet-long MBZ field that MUST= be zeroed
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 on transmission and ignored on receipt.

Value should be 8-octets-long, no?
GIM>> Thank y= ou for catching it! You are absolutely correct. Fixed this and a similar in= :
=C2=A0 =C2=A0o =C2=A0Source EUI-64 Address sub-TLV - is a 12-oc= tet-long sub-TLV that
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 includes the EUI-64 source MA= C address.=C2=A0 The Type value is TBA11.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 The value= of the Length field MUST equal to 8.=C2=A0 The Value field
=C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 consists of an eight-octet-long EUI-64 field.

=

Section 4.2.2

=C2=A0 =C2=A0A Session-Sender MAY include the Source MAC Address sub-TLV is= the
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Location TLV.=C2=A0 If the Session-Reflector receives the Loca= tion TLV

nit: s/is/in/
GIM>> Thank you. Fixed (and three = more places in the same sub-section).=C2=A0

Section 4.3

=C2=A0 =C2=A0MUST NOT fill any information fields except for STAMP TLV Flag= s,
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Type, and Length.=C2=A0 All other fields MUST be filled with z= eroes The

nit: missing full stop.
GIM>> Done.=C2=A0
<= /div>
--000000000000a15ac205b105ccfd-- From nobody Wed Oct 7 16:15:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C2DA3A14D3; Wed, 7 Oct 2020 16:15:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.19.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <160211255008.11688.12917549499945308552@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 16:15:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-06.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2020 23:15:50 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) Data Model Authors : Greg Mirsky Xiao Min Wei S Luo Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-06.txt Pages : 35 Date : 2020-10-07 Abstract: This document specifies the data model for implementations of Session-Sender and Session-Reflector for Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) mode using YANG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-06 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-06 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 12 09:17:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 528B43A0E8B; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:17:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.2, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d_BkpyAAM_WJ; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:17:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-aaemail-lapp01.apple.com (nwk-aaemail-lapp01.apple.com [17.151.62.66]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9B3043A0C8B; 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Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:17:33 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Message-id: Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_84A07F27-2186-426F-8257-70A2D9006704" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:17:24 -0700 In-reply-to: Cc: "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org" , "draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org" , IPPM Chairs , Martin Duke , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-10-12_12:2020-10-12, 2020-10-12 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:17:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_84A07F27-2186-426F-8257-70A2D9006704 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Frank, I=E2=80=99ve provided some editorial suggestions here: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/198 = Also, we should clean up the long author list on this document: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/issues/197 = Best, Tommy > On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = wrote: >=20 > Hi Tommy, >=20 > Thanks for your feedback. Here's the git link: > = https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam= -ipv6-options.xml > Text version is here: = https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/drafts/versions/03/draft-ie= tf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03.txt >=20 > Looking forward to your comments. >=20 > Thanks, Frank >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Tommy Pauly >> Sent: Dienstag, 29. September 2020 20:19 >> To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) >> Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; = draft-ioametal-ippm-6man- >> ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org; IPPM Chairs ; = Martin >> Duke ; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) >> >> Subject: Re: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM = document >>=20 >> Hi Frank, all, >>=20 >> Thanks for providing this update. The combined document makes sense = and, I >> believe, will provide a more useful resource to implementors. >>=20 >> Looking through the new text, I had a few textual/editorial nits. Is = this available >> on a GitHub for comments or a PR? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Tommy >>=20 >>> On Sep 18, 2020, at 1:56 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) >> wrote: >>>=20 >>> =EF=BB=BFHi Tommy, IPPM WG, >>>=20 >>> we just posted an updated draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 which = merges >> draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment into = draft-ietf-ippm-ioam- >> ipv6-options plus it reflects the WG discussion of the last IPPM = meeting. >>>=20 >>> The updates to draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 are >>>=20 >>> * implement the guidance from the WG chairs: Merge in = draft-ioametal-ippm- >> 6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment "as is", i.e. only editorial changes were = made (e.g. >> resolve references which would have been circular). >>> * implement the result of discussion in the last WG meeting: Removed = the >> paragraph that started with " In order for IOAM to work in IPv6 = networks.." >> which included deployment considerations. >>>=20 >>> Moving forward, we'll need to further evolve the deployment section = (now >> section 4). >>> There were already comments raised in the IOAM DT wrt/ what is now = section >> 4.4.1 by Haoyu. I asked Haoyu to take those to the IPPM list. >>>=20 >>> Cheers, Frank >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Tommy Pauly >>>> Sent: Freitag, 14. August 2020 23:12 >>>> To: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; >>>> draft-ioametal-ippm-6man- ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org >>>> Cc: IPPM Chairs ; Martin Duke >>>> >>>> Subject: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document >>>>=20 >>>> Hi IOAM IPv6 authors, >>>>=20 >>>> At IETF 108, we discussed draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options and >>>> draft-ioametal- ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment, and how to progress >>>> with the deployment considerations. Since the hums showed no strong >>>> opinions one way or the other in the WG, Ian and I have discussed = and >>>> would prefer to see the deployment considerations merged into the = existing >> and adopted IPv6 options document. >>>> Both documents are short, and readers will benefit from any >>>> discussion of deployment being available in the same document that >>>> defines the extension header. >>>>=20 >>>> Please post an update for draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options with = this >>>> content added when you have a chance! >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Tommy --Apple-Mail=_84A07F27-2186-426F-8257-70A2D9006704 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Frank,

I=E2=80=99ve = provided some editorial suggestions here:

https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/198

Also, we should clean up = the long author list on this document:

https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/issues/197

Best,
Tommy

On Sep = 29, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com> = wrote:

Hi Tommy,

Thanks for your = feedback. Here's the git link:
https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/drafts/draft-iet= f-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options.xml
Text version is here: = https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/drafts/versions/03/draft-ie= tf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03.txt

Looking = forward to your comments.

Thanks, Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Pauly = <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Dienstag, 29. September = 2020 20:19
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Cc: = draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-
ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org; IPPM Chairs = <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; Martin
Duke = <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)
<ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Merging = deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document

Hi Frank, all,

Thanks for = providing this update. The combined document makes sense and, I
believe, will provide a more useful resource to = implementors.

Looking through the new text, = I had a few textual/editorial nits. Is this available
on a = GitHub for comments or a PR?

Thanks,
Tommy

On Sep 18, 2020, at 1:56 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne)
<fbrockne@cisco.com> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFHi= Tommy, IPPM WG,

we just posted an updated = draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 which merges
draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment = into draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-
ipv6-options plus it reflects = the WG discussion of the last IPPM meeting.

The updates to = draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 are

* = implement the guidance from the WG chairs: Merge in = draft-ioametal-ippm-
6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment = "as is", i.e. only editorial changes were made (e.g.
resolve= references which would have been circular).
* implement the result of discussion in the = last WG meeting: Removed the
paragraph that = started with " In order for IOAM to work in IPv6 networks.."
which included deployment considerations.

Moving = forward, we'll need to further evolve the deployment section (now
section 4).
There were already comments raised in the IOAM = DT wrt/ what is now section
4.4.1 by Haoyu. I = asked  Haoyu to take those to the IPPM list.

Cheers, = Frank

-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Pauly = <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Freitag, 14. August 2020 = 23:12
To: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org;
draft-ioametal-ippm-6man- ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; Martin Duke
<martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Subject: = Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document

Hi IOAM IPv6 authors,

At IETF 108, we discussed draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options = and
draft-ioametal- ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment, and = how to progress
with the deployment considerations. Since = the hums showed no strong
opinions one way or the other in = the WG, Ian and I have discussed and
would prefer to see = the deployment considerations merged into the existing
and adopted IPv6 options = document.
Both documents are short, and readers will = benefit from any
discussion of deployment being available = in the same document that
defines the extension header.

Please post an update for = draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options with this
content added = when you have a chance!

Thanks,
Tommy

= --Apple-Mail=_84A07F27-2186-426F-8257-70A2D9006704-- From nobody Mon Oct 12 09:25:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B3C3A159B for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.297 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.297 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.2, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7RGpVneW9E61 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nwk-aaemail-lapp02.apple.com (nwk-aaemail-lapp02.apple.com [17.151.62.67]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A391A3A1666 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (nwk-aaemail-lapp02.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by nwk-aaemail-lapp02.apple.com (8.16.0.43/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09CGPNm5042095 for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:25 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=from : content-type : mime-version : subject : message-id : date : to; s=20180706; bh=Kzz0P7Yji9s8rOHpZmDLLlhBmu0NSqXNMEMU1U5EwQs=; b=WVySX5BCY5B9ufS4jjJR4vfqijUffW8AnJ3yyO/6cKGJG1jpkyio8zB8A31xP5LbGqjE 8zxSDmuk+xWTZeZqhfUTGaT6K96Bv1tB1gBzcnTt4p464AumxYJjik2t23KOThMhIvpj gUf0/Y1yXp6saScvzvDpnIUEbEW+OfBU/aWw6uVjFhpsA5J1u0OBlcC1givmVFdborfn 4fwh5G/T5v95Q+5GGP/vTucCtyzjFRE1Gu4/b8/HxwTXff62siTJFmrbOSo6cSXLZ5+B mKaFurB11R1JLuigaOmTKlm+7o/KnsWcFKCbS/5eBo0OngL1YTpSfyyODSxH8ix3cH/Y FQ== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.149]) by nwk-aaemail-lapp02.apple.com with ESMTP id 344smsh41n-5 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:25 -0700 Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.17]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPS id <0QI300AN4KA77EQ0@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) id <0QI300Z00K9XU200@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 723948813aed79c947a23a6f942d2d0e X-Va-E-CD: e53dc8b05067dd9b33245f3467147fcd X-Va-R-CD: d4733e8775cb3741475d31e7657e73d4 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: 842eeab5-229c-47ae-b17d-bc16767e2965 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 723948813aed79c947a23a6f942d2d0e X-V-E-CD: e53dc8b05067dd9b33245f3467147fcd X-V-R-CD: d4733e8775cb3741475d31e7657e73d4 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: f2e32dc7-959c-40f9-acf1-9c42d3ccb20a X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-10-12_12:2020-10-12, 2020-10-12 signatures=0 Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [17.232.218.59]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPSA id <0QI3006L4KA5WD00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp04.rno.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:19 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C8B309B2-F2C3-440B-BF25-DF299CD3D0A5" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) Message-id: Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 09:25:17 -0700 To: IETF IPPM WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-10-12_14:2020-10-12, 2020-10-12 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Adopting new work at IETF 109 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:25:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C8B309B2-F2C3-440B-BF25-DF299CD3D0A5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello IPPM, Thanks to everyone=E2=80=99s hard work over the past several months! We = now have many of our documents in the later stages of publication (in = the RFC editor queue, or sent to the IESG). As such, we=E2=80=99re able = to look at adopting new work items in the group. Over the past few meetings, we=E2=80=99ve had many different documents = presented and discussed. We do want to maintain a high bar for = adoption=E2=80=94we expect that any item we adopt should have a level of = engagement and collaboration within the working group, demonstrated by = mailing list discussion. As such, I would like to ask any authors who = would like to progress their drafts as working group documents to start = a discussion thread on the mailing list, or else directly email the = chairs (ippm-chairs@ietf.org ) to ask for = an adoption call on work that has already been sufficiently discussed. Best, Tommy & Ian= --Apple-Mail=_C8B309B2-F2C3-440B-BF25-DF299CD3D0A5 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello= IPPM,

Thanks to = everyone=E2=80=99s hard work over the past several months! We now have = many of our documents in the later stages of publication (in the RFC = editor queue, or sent to the IESG). As such, we=E2=80=99re able to look = at adopting new work items in the group.

Over the past few meetings, we=E2=80=99ve= had many different documents presented and discussed. We do want to = maintain a high bar for adoption=E2=80=94we expect that any item we = adopt should have a level of engagement and collaboration within the = working group, demonstrated by mailing list discussion. As such, I would = like to ask any authors who would like to progress their drafts as = working group documents to start a discussion thread on the mailing = list, or else directly email the chairs (ippm-chairs@ietf.org) = to ask for an adoption call on work that has already been sufficiently = discussed.

Best,
Tommy & = Ian
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15.20.3455.029; Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:51:34 +0000 From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" To: Tommy Pauly CC: "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org" , "draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org" , IPPM Chairs , Martin Duke , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Thread-Topic: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document Thread-Index: AQHWcn+tehkJP0ZMgkKNO88gp8Y0RKluSaBQgBHrXQCAAAECQIAUS1gAgAAJIjA= Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2020 16:51:34 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: apple.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;apple.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=cisco.com; x-originating-ip: [5.146.24.90] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: bb9aed0b-977a-4891-24ff-08d86ecf13e7 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR11MB2710: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:8882; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 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IHRoZSB0cmFkZW9mZi4gIE9uIG9uZSBoYW5kIGl0IGFkZHJlc3Nlcw0KPiA+Pj4gICAgIHRoZSB1 c2UgY2FzZXMgdGhhdCB0aGUgSG9wX0xpbS9Ob2RlX0lEIGNhbm5vdCBjb3ZlciwgYW5kIG9uIHRo ZQ0KPiA+Pj4gICAgIG90aGVyIGhhbmQgaXQgZG9lcyBub3QgcmVxdWlyZSB0cmFuc2l0IHN3aXRj aGVzIHRvIHVwZGF0ZSB0aGUNCj4gPj4+ICAgICBvcHRpb24gaWYgaXQgaXMgbm90IHN1cHBvcnRl ZCBvciBkaXNhYmxlZC4gIEZ1cnRoZXIgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbiBpcw0KPiA+Pj4gICAgIHJlcXVpcmVk IGFib3V0IHRoZSB0cmFkZW9mZiBiZXR3ZWVuIHRoZSB0d28gYWx0ZXJuYXRpdmVzLg0K From nobody Wed Oct 14 00:11:04 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D789D3A0EB5; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 00:11:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from 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(version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 08:10:54 +0100 Received: from DGGEML524-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.7]) by dggeml423-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 15:09:41 +0800 From: wangyali To: "draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Thread-Index: Adah+Gmyf++Ze/DTQGG9a+/qcIAK3A== Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 07:09:40 +0000 Message-ID: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377Ddggeml524mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 07:11:03 -0000 --_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377Ddggeml524mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi authors, This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STA= MP extension. The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on mem= ber link of a LAG in your draft. Do you consider the extended STAMP propos= ed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG? Nits: OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. Best regards, Yali --_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377Ddggeml524mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi authors,

 

This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG = through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension.

 

The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended= to implement PM on member link of a LAG in your draft.  Do you consid= er the extended STAMP proposed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be = used for PM on LAG?

 

Nits:=

OLD: When receiv= es a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST<= /p>

   use= the member link from which the Test packet is received to

   cor= relate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector

   mem= ber link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is

   cor= rectly transmitted over the expected member link.

 

NEW: When receiv= es a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST<= /p>

   use= the member link from which the Test packet is received to

   cor= relate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector

   mem= ber link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is

   cor= rectly transmitted over the expected member link.

 

Best regards,

Yali

 

 

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dXQgdGhlIHRyYWRlb2ZmIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIHR3byBhbHRlcm5hdGl2ZXMuDQo= From nobody Wed Oct 14 06:54:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31EA43A0D9C; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:54:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d1YlDXf8syTC; Wed, 14 Oct 2020 06:54:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00191d01.pphosted.com [67.231.149.140]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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"IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Thread-Topic: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue Thread-Index: AQHWi/Gd8KW1sQVySE+kGhpmOqIw3qlri0IAgBkLnMCAABEOgIAAFayAgBIPGgCAAE6/gIAALWVg Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2020 13:53:38 +0000 Message-ID: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF014294422C@njmtexg5.research.att.com> References: <4941A7B7-7147-48C6-8A05-1D1572DFACA2@apple.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [24.148.42.167] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-10-14_08:2020-10-14, 2020-10-14 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_policy_notspam policy=outbound_policy score=0 bulkscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 adultscore=0 mlxscore=0 malwarescore=0 spamscore=0 suspectscore=0 phishscore=0 clxscore=1011 priorityscore=1501 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam 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URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2hpLclEUCvfd; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 02:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E1983A13A7; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 02:36:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id E4F18618BE5A6027C50E; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:36:55 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) by lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:36:55 +0100 Received: from DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.39) by lhreml704-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.53) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 10:36:55 +0100 Received: from DGGEML510-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by DGGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::b177:a243:7a69:5ab8%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 17:35:37 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: wangyali , "draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Thread-Index: Adah+Gmyf++Ze/DTQGG9a+/qcIAK3AA3R61w Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:35:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.140] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE297EF0202dggeml510mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 09:37:01 -0000 --_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE297EF0202dggeml510mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Yali, Thanks for your comments! The current design extends the STAMP base format to implement PM on LAG, in= my understanding, the STAMP-TLV draft extends the base STAMP by adding TLV= following the base format. Therefore, the current design can be easily ext= ended to support STAMP-TLV format. I am personally OK to add a format based= on the STAMP-TLV format. BTW, thanks for the nit, we will fix it in the next reversion. Best regards, Mach From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of wangyali Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:10 PM To: draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi authors, This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STA= MP extension. The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on mem= ber link of a LAG in your draft. Do you consider the extended STAMP propos= ed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG? Nits: OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. Best regards, Yali --_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE297EF0202dggeml510mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Yali,

 

Thanks for your comments!

 

The current design extends the STAMP base format to implement PM = on LAG, in my understanding, the STAMP-TLV draft extends the base STAMP by = adding TLV following the base format. Therefore, the current design can be easily extended to support STAMP-TLV = format. I am personally OK to add a format based on the STAMP-TLV format.

 

BTW, thanks for the nit, we will fix it in the next reversion.

 

Best regards,

Mach

 

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of wangyali
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:10 PM
To: draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag

 

Hi authors,

 

This is a valuable draft discus= sing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension.

 

The basic STAMP defined in RFC8= 762 has been extended to implement PM on member link of a LAG in your draft= .  Do you consider the extended STAMP proposed in [draft-ietf-ippm-sta= mp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG?

 

N= its:

O= LD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST

&= nbsp;  use the member link from which the Test packet is received to

&= nbsp;  correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector=

&= nbsp;  member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is

&= nbsp;  correctly transmitted over the expected member link.=

&= nbsp;

N= EW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST

&= nbsp;  use the member link from which the Test packet is received to

&= nbsp;  correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector=

&= nbsp;  member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet<= u> is

&= nbsp;  correctly transmitted over the expected member link.=

 

Best regards,=

Yali

 

 

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Thu, 15 Oct 2020 20:03:39 +0000 From: Haoyu Song To: "draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Thread-Topic: review comments on draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step-05 Thread-Index: AdajLVFXnEi3pPP9T6KaONCEv9kIvg== Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 20:03:39 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [2600:1700:38c4:650:8d80:82b6:d935:df71] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: c74e74b1-ffe3-4c99-96a5-08d87145688b x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: DM6PR13MB4477: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:9508; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: /SSBQECh1Pu5bylxXVyLcGMcBWrSuszMOrQsnm99lTYBRCvs3R5u9Ju9qxS89boxxNMGjEeo5ca2V9Qu0QwbeQCD9DdEPs0Ba/DLo4q0+B0Sho9mP6bF/hEq+8WRIcH0blwLTcFtGerTYoPcjimazdVgSvZe1otkFZlHNTEwX8zoecUltMm9krq8vL+Cgqjlw9Gu16xlCwk2tczPkWVn4IxprEUq3fTA1LeUp0OF6MlAW9Dp5pYdiGvJSQbmyXuaOP30QG8sU/P1T+NnRd6LZoqVQRN0bELEaOlUVQmQ/THuurlp5V3az2chN2ufKlXZ+nyOlLEhcuXIJidBQAAqzA== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi authors and IPPM, I reviewed the draft and see a close link of the proposed method with the o= ther methods in discussion in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and comm= ents for your consideration. 1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of techno= logy. In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the telemetry = data using one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of doing so is cl= ear and sound. 2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to alig= n it with the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (e.g., dat= a and header specification). It's even possible to think about it as yet an= other option for IOAM. 3. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger (t= he transport header and timer). This is not a trivial process and the scal= ability also needs to be considered. 4. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet header= encapsulated? The current draft doesn't provide enough details on these is= sues. 5. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear to = me. It seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated follow-up p= ackets. Based on the description, if a follow-up packet is dropped, then ea= ch hop on the remaining path will experience the timer expiration and gener= ate a new follow-up packet. Will these packets all have the same sequence n= umber? If the original follow-up packet is just delayed but not dropped, ho= w will this and the other newly generated follow-up packets are differentia= ted and processed? 6. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the data= profile should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the follow-up p= acket? 7. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which dat= a is generated by which node? Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks! Best regards, Haoyu --_000_DM6PR13MB2762BFD08A042A8D386FD9579A020DM6PR13MB2762namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi aut= hors and IPPM,

&= nbsp;

I revi= ewed the draft and see a close link of the proposed method with the other m= ethods in discussion in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and comments f= or your consideration.  

  1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of technology. = In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the telemetry data u= sing one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of doing so is clear an= d sound.
  2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to align it w= ith the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (e.g., data and = header specification). It’s even possible to think about it as yet an= other option for IOAM.
  3. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger (the tra= nsport header and timer). This is not a  trivial process and the scala= bility also needs to be considered.
  4. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet header encap= sulated? The current draft doesn’t provide enough details on these is= sues.  
  5. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear to me. It= seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated follow-up packets= . Based on the description, if a follow-up packet is dropped, then each hop= on the remaining path will experience the timer expiration and generate a new follow-up packet. Will these packe= ts all have the same sequence number? If the original follow-up packet is j= ust delayed but not dropped, how will this and the other newly generated fo= llow-up packets are differentiated and processed?
  6. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the data profi= le should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the follow-up packet?=
  7. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which data is g= enerated by which node?

Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks!

Best regards,=

Haoyu

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Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption: Marking-based PBT X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2020 20:32:00 -0000 --00000000000011540205b1bb8ace Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Haoyu, Given that, per Tommy's email, I believe the updated draft needs to have sufficient interest on the list to be considered for adoption. I'd suggest starting a separate thread about the updated draft to solicit feedback and ask for interest. Thanks, Ian On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 4:23 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : > Hi Tommy and DEX authors/editor, > > > > The original PBT draft contains two related but different approaches. > PBT-I evolves into IOAM DEX, while PBT-M is left out. PBT-M needs to deal > with different issues (e.g., where to set the trigger and how to correlat= e > the export data). > > > > Since you suggest =E2=80=9Canything related to Direct Export should be fo= lded into > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export=E2=80=9D, I would ask the authors/edit= or of the > DEX draft to examine the case and see if it=E2=80=99s possible. As an aut= hor of the > DEX draft myself I have no problem of that and I can prepare the text to > merge. If the editor/other authors believe it=E2=80=99s better to keep th= e current > DEX draft as is, I would continue to push this as a standalone draft. > Please the IPPM chairs and DEX editor provide a response on this issue . > > > > I believe the approach has its value. The SRv6 OAM has adopted the > approach but we need to hammer out the details to make it a general > approach, just like IOAM, DEX which can be applied in different types of > networks. > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > *From:* Tommy Pauly > *Sent:* Monday, July 13, 2020 12:59 PM > *To:* Haoyu Song > *Cc:* ippm-chairs ; > draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG ( > ippm@ietf.org) > *Subject:* Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption: Marking-based PBT > > > > Hello Haoyu, > > > > The WG discussion at our last meeting, the chairs provided guidance that > anything related to Direct Export should be folded into > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export, but we do not see the need to adopt > this as a separate document. > > > > Minutes are here: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/minutes-interim-2020-ippm-01-20200401080= 0/ > > > > > We will not be issuing an adoption call for this at this time, based on > the previous discussions. > > > > Thanks, > > Tommy > > > > On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Haoyu Song wrote= : > > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry= / > > > > > > Dear IPPM Chairs, > > > > After the WG discussion in last meeting, the above draft has been > truncated to only include the marking-based PBT. The instruction-based PB= T > has been merged into the WG document IOAM DEX a while ago. > > Since IOAM data draft is in its WGLC, we think it=E2=80=99s time to reque= st the WG > adoption for this draft for the following reasons: > > 1) It has been discussed a lot in WG email list and meetings. > > 2) Just like IOAM trace, IOAM DEX, and HTS, PBT-M merits to be an > independent approach for network telemetry. > > 3) The approach has been used in SRv6 OAM (the draft is currently in > WGLC at 6man) in which o-bit is used as a data collection trigger. > > 4) Just like the IOAM data draft, we need a PBT-M draft to specify > the related details so that it can be universally apply to each applicati= on > scenario. > > 5) Since the approach is closely related to other works in IPPM, we > think it=E2=80=99s better to coordinate the work in WG as early as possib= le. > > Therefore, we request the IPPM to adopt the draft. Thank you very much fo= r > your consideration! > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu Song > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > > > --00000000000011540205b1bb8ace Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Haoyu,

Given that, per Tommy's emai= l, I believe the updated draft needs to have=C2=A0sufficient interest on th= e list to be considered for adoption.

I'd suggest startin= g a separate thread about the updated draft to solicit feedback and ask for= interest.

Thanks, Ian

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020= at 4:23 PM Haoyu Song <haoy= u.song@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Tommy and DEX authors/editor,

=C2=A0

The original PBT draft contains two related but diff= erent approaches. PBT-I evolves into IOAM DEX, while PBT-M is left out. PBT= -M needs to deal with different issues (e.g., where to set the trigger and = how to correlate the export data).

=C2=A0

Since you suggest =E2=80=9Canything related to Direc= t Export should be folded into draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export=E2=80=9D,= I would ask the authors/editor of the DEX draft to examine the case and se= e if it=E2=80=99s possible. As an author of the DEX draft myself I have no problem of that and I can prepare the text to merge. If t= he editor/other authors believe it=E2=80=99s better to keep the current DEX= draft as is, I would continue to push this as a standalone draft. Please t= he IPPM chairs and DEX editor provide a response on this issue .

=C2=A0

I believe the approach has its value. The SRv6 OAM h= as adopted the approach but we need to hammer out the details to make it a = general approach, just like IOAM, DEX which can be applied in different typ= es of networks.

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Haoyu =C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Monday, July 13, 2020 12:59 PM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
Cc: ippm-chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-song-ippm-postc= ard-based-telemetry@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption: Marking-based PBT

=C2=A0

Hello Haoyu,

=C2=A0

The WG discussion at our last meeting, the chairs pr= ovided guidance that anything related to Direct Export should be folded int= o draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export, but we do not see the need to adopt t= his as a separate document.

=C2=A0

Minutes are here:

=C2=A0

We will not be issuing an adoption call for this at = this time, based on the previous discussions.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Tommy



On Jul 13, 2020, at 10:50 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei= .com> wrote:

=C2=A0

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-tele= metry/=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0<= /u>

=C2=A0

Dear IPPM Chairs,

=C2=A0

After the WG discussion in last meeting, the above d= raft has been truncated to only include the marking-based PBT. The instruct= ion-based PBT has been merged into the WG document IOAM DEX a while ago.=

Since IOAM data draft is in its WGLC, we think it=E2= =80=99s time to request the WG adoption for this draft for the following re= asons:

1)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0It has been disc= ussed a lot in WG email list and meetings.

2)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Just like IOAM t= race, IOAM DEX, and HTS, PBT-M merits to be an independent approach for network telemetry.

3)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0The approach has= been used in SRv6 OAM (the draft is currently in WGLC at 6man) =C2=A0in wh= ich o-bit is used as a data collection trigger.

4)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Just like the IO= AM data draft, we need a PBT-M draft to specify the related details so that it can be universally apply to each application scenario.

5)=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Since the approa= ch is closely related to other works in IPPM, we think it=E2=80=99s better = to coordinate the work in WG as early as possible.

Therefore, we request the IPPM to adopt the draft. T= hank you very much for your consideration!

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Haoyu Song

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ie= tf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

=C2=A0

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GblFUL1OMzvN5jRDBIOsgQrV2pkIgoefXy2Ov3Aoqyel9IdkVwU+QF/q3ZyE1BqtLdjbuRzMhRNrDQjFtjuPgdjjakE1fn4iBV0cN5nL1w1ha+DHPnEICikap4fv37xRYmXoRhyoeyuJjDbZKdbz/g== X-OriginatorOrg: hotmail.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 8063b9c8-fbc1-4790-d8b7-08d87172aa68 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 16 Oct 2020 01:27:37.6394 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: 84df9e7f-e9f6-40af-b435-aaaaaaaaaaaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: HK2APC01FT035.eop-APC01.prod.protection.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Anonymous X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Internet X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-RMS-PersistedConsumerOrg: 00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HK2APC01HT037 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:27:45 -0000 ------=_001_NextPart062467371103_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgWWFsaSwNCg0KVGhhbmsgeW91IGZvciB5b3VyIHN1cHBvcnQgYW5kIHN1Z2dlc3Rpb24uDQpU aGUgZXh0ZW5kZWQgU1RBTVAgd2l0aCBvcHRpb25hbCBUTFYgaXMgYW4gb3B0aW9uIHRvIGRvIFBN IG9uIExBRy4gV2UgZGlzY3Vzc2VkIGl0IGludGVybmFseSBpbiBvdXIgZGVzaWduIHRlYW0uIFRo ZSBtYWluIGNvbmNlcm4gYWJvdXQgaXQgaXMgd2hldGhlciBpdCBpcyBoYXJkd2FyZSBmcmllbmRs eS4gU2luY2UgdGhlIGJhc2UgU1RBTVAgd2l0aCBleHRlbnNpb25zIHByb3Bvc2VkIGluIHRoaXMg ZG9jIGlzIHN1ZmZpY2llbnQgZm9yIFBNIG9uIExBRywgZG8geW91IHN0aWxsIHByZWZlciB0aGUg VExWIG9wdGlvbj8gV2UgYWxzbyB3YW50IHRvIGtub3cgdGhlIG9waW5pb24gZnJvbSB0aGlzIGxp c3QuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNClpoZW5xaWFuZyBMaQ0KDQoNCmxpX3poZW5xaWFuZ0Bob3RtYWlsLmNv bQ0KIA0KRnJvbTogd2FuZ3lhbGkNCkRhdGU6IDIwMjAtMTAtMTQgMTU6MDkNClRvOiBkcmFmdC1s 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Hi Yali,

Thank you for your= support and suggestion.
The extended STAMP with optional TLV is = an option to do PM on LAG. We discussed it internaly in our design team. Th= e main concern about it is whether it is hardware friendly. Since the base = STAMP with extensions proposed in this doc is sufficient for PM on LAG, do = you still prefer the TLV option? We also want to know the opinion from this= list.
=0A=

Thanks,
Zhenqiang Li
=0A=
li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com
=0A=
 
From: wangyali
Date: 2020-10-14 = 15:09
Subject: Comments for draft-li-i= ppm-pm-on-lag
=0A= =0A=
=0A=

Hi authors,

=0A=

 

=0A=

This is a valuable draft discussing= about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension.=0A=

=0A=

 

=0A=

The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 = has been extended to implement PM on member link of a LAG in your draft. &n= bsp;Do you consider the extended STAMP proposed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-o= ption-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG?

=0A=

 

=0A=

Nits:

=0A=

OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micr= o STAMP Session-Reflector MUST

=0A=

   use the member link from whic= h the Test packet is received to

=0A=

   correlate to a micro STAMP se= ssion and use the Sender/Reflector

=0A=

   member link identifiers to va= lidate whether the Test packet=0A= is is

=0A=

   correctly transmitted over th= e expected member link.

=0A=

 

=0A=

NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micr= o STAMP Session-Reflector MUST

=0A=

   use the member link from whic= h the Test packet is received to

=0A=

   correlate to a micro STAMP se= ssion and use the Sender/Reflector

=0A=

   member link identifiers to va= lidate whether the Test packet is

=0A=

   correctly transmitted over th= e expected member link.

=0A=

 

=0A=

Best regards,

=0A=

Yali

=0A=

 

=0A=

 

=0A=
=0A=
=0A= = ------=_001_NextPart062467371103_=------ From nobody Thu Oct 15 18:28:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3C86B3A0E0D; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:27:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IOiHqZhePxrC; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:27:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2F8F3A0DFF; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 18:27:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1F26F90D5C1709A5BE27; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:27:48 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) by lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:27:47 +0100 Received: from DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.32) by lhreml712-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.63) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 02:27:47 +0100 Received: from DGGEML524-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.7]) by DGGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::89ed:853e:30a9:2a79%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 09:26:55 +0800 From: wangyali To: Mach Chen , "draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org" CC: IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Thread-Index: AQHWotaP9PVpSnEc3Eqss3wi5vfWIqmYas6Q Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:26:54 +0000 Message-ID: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500528E@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500528Edggeml524mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 01:28:00 -0000 --_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500528Edggeml524mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mach, Thanks for your feedback and kind consideration. Referring to [I-D.ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv], SSID and multiple TLVs are e= xtended following the base format. And I suggest updating normative reference [I-D.ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv]= to the latest version draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09. Best regards, Yali From: Mach Chen Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 5:36 PM To: wangyali ; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org Cc: IETF IPPM WG Subject: RE: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi Yali, Thanks for your comments! The current design extends the STAMP base format to implement PM on LAG, in= my understanding, the STAMP-TLV draft extends the base STAMP by adding TLV= following the base format. Therefore, the current design can be easily ext= ended to support STAMP-TLV format. I am personally OK to add a format based= on the STAMP-TLV format. BTW, thanks for the nit, we will fix it in the next reversion. Best regards, Mach From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of wangyali Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:10 PM To: draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org Cc: IETF IPPM WG > Subject: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi authors, This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STA= MP extension. The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on mem= ber link of a LAG in your draft. Do you consider the extended STAMP propos= ed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG? Nits: OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. Best regards, Yali --_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500528Edggeml524mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mach,

 

Thanks for your feedba= ck and kind consideration.

 

Referring to [I-D.ietf= -ippm-stamp-option-tlv], SSID and multiple TLVs are extended following the = base format.

And I suggest updating= normative reference [I-D.ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to the latest version= draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv-09.

 

Best regards,

Yali=

 

From: Mach Chen
Sent: Thursday, October 15, 2020 5:36 PM
To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@= ietf.org
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /p>

 

Hi Ya= li,

=  

Thank= s for your comments!

=  

The c= urrent design extends the STAMP base format to implement PM on LAG, in my u= nderstanding, the STAMP-TLV draft extends the base STAMP by adding TLV foll= owing the base format. Therefore, the current design can be easily extended to support STAMP-TLV format. I am pe= rsonally OK to add a format based on the STAMP-TLV format.

=  

BTW, = thanks for the nit, we will fix it in the next reversion.=

=  

Best = regards,

Mach<= o:p>

=  

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of wangyali
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 3:10 PM
To: draft-li-ipp= m-pm-on-lag@ietf.org
Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org<= /a>>
Subject: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag

 

Hi authors,

 

This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG = through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension.

 

The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended= to implement PM on member link of a LAG in your draft.  Do you consid= er the extended STAMP proposed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be = used for PM on LAG?

 

Nits:=

OLD: When receiv= es a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST<= /p>

   use= the member link from which the Test packet is received to

   cor= relate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector

   mem= ber link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is

   cor= rectly transmitted over the expected member link.

 

NEW: When receiv= es a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST<= /p>

   use= the member link from which the Test packet is received to

   cor= relate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector

   mem= ber link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is

   cor= rectly transmitted over the expected member link.

 

Best regards,

Yali

 

 

--_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500528Edggeml524mbxchi_-- From nobody Thu Oct 15 20:46:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4CCF13A0838; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 20:46:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tUn64-szJzUP; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 670A43A082F; Thu, 15 Oct 2020 20:46:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 9190C96DAF65ACE8B565; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 04:46:37 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.50) by lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1913.5; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 04:46:02 +0100 Received: from DGGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.38) by lhreml701-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.50) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA_P256) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 04:46:01 +0100 Received: from DGGEML524-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.7]) by DGGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::fca6:7568:4ee3:c776%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 11:44:48 +0800 From: wangyali To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag CC: ippm Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Thread-Index: AQHWo1utDv93C4Uf1UeC08LrPhOcw6mZdRWA Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 03:44:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.136] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338dggeml524mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 03:46:43 -0000 --_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338dggeml524mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Zhenqiang, Thanks for your reply. As the optional TLVs, the length of the extended STA= MP test packet, indeed is variable. While such extensions enhance the STAMP= base functions, which lead active PM to be scalable. I prefer that having = the extension formats to be an additional option in this draft. Comments from other forks are also welcome. :) Best regards, Yali From: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com [mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 9:28 AM To: wangyali ; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Cc: ippm Subject: Re: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi Yali, Thank you for your support and suggestion. The extended STAMP with optional TLV is an option to do PM on LAG. We discu= ssed it internaly in our design team. The main concern about it is whether = it is hardware friendly. Since the base STAMP with extensions proposed in t= his doc is sufficient for PM on LAG, do you still prefer the TLV option? We= also want to know the opinion from this list. Thanks, Zhenqiang Li ________________________________ li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com From: wangyali Date: 2020-10-14 15:09 To: draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org CC: IETF IPPM WG Subject: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi authors, This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STA= MP extension. The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on mem= ber link of a LAG in your draft. Do you consider the extended STAMP propos= ed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG? Nits: OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. Best regards, Yali --_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338dggeml524mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Zhenqiang,

 

Thanks for your reply. As the optiona= l TLVs, the length of the extended STAMP test packet, indeed is variable. W= hile such extensions enhance the STAMP base functions, which lead active PM to be scalable. I prefer that having the extension fo= rmats to be an additional option in this draft.

 

Comments from other forks are also we= lcome. J

 

Best regards,

Yali

 

From: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com [mail= to:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 9:28 AM
To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag = <draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org>
Cc: ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /p>

 

Hi Yali,

 

Thank you for your support and suggestion.=

The extended STAMP with optional TLV is an opti= on to do PM on LAG. We discussed it internaly in our design team. The main = concern about it is whether it is hardware friendly. Since the base STAMP with extensions proposed in this doc is sufficient fo= r PM on LAG, do you still prefer the TLV option? We also want to know the o= pinion from this list.

 

Thanks,

Zhenqiang Li

 

From: wangyali

Date: 2020-10-14 15:09

Subject:<= /span> Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /span>

Hi authors,

 =

This is a valuable draft= discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension.

 =

The basic STAMP defined = in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on member link of a LAG in you= r draft.  Do you consider the extended STAMP proposed in [draft-ietf-i= ppm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG?

 =

Nits:<= /p>

OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-R= eflector MUST

   use the member link from which the Test packet= is received to

   correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the= Sender/Reflector

   member link identifiers to validate whether th= e Test packet is is

   correctly transmitted over the expected member= link.

 =

NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-R= eflector MUST

   use the member link from which the Test packet= is received to

   correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the= Sender/Reflector

   member link identifiers to validate whether th= e Test packet is

   correctly transmitted over the expected member= link.

 =

Best regards,=

Yali

 <= /span>

 =

--_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338dggeml524mbxchi_-- From nobody Fri Oct 16 00:30:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E474B3A0D7B; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 00:30:54 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id zljM8qcAxa_i; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 00:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B67CA3A0D79; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 00:30:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 9E181B15A3B4F20BE736; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:30:49 +0100 (IST) Received: from lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:30:49 +0100 Received: from DGGEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.49) by lhreml711-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.62) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 08:30:48 +0100 Received: from DGGEML510-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.18]) by dggeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.3.17.49]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 15:30:39 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: wangyali , "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag CC: ippm Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Thread-Index: AQHWo1u26CD3AAWJYkeyI5IApnwghamZEJGAgADDYWA= Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 07:30:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.140] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE297EF2A97dggeml510mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 07:30:55 -0000 --_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE297EF2A97dggeml510mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Yali, One clarify question, do you mean that the additional option is just to all= ow the optional TLVs (but has nothing business with PM on LAG function) tha= t follow the base format as defined in the current draft, or to use the opt= ional TLV to implement the PM on LAG? I assume it's the former. Best regards, Mach From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of wangyali Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 11:45 AM To: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Cc: ippm Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi Zhenqiang, Thanks for your reply. As the optional TLVs, the length of the extended STA= MP test packet, indeed is variable. While such extensions enhance the STAMP= base functions, which lead active PM to be scalable. I prefer that having = the extension formats to be an additional option in this draft. Comments from other forks are also welcome. :) Best regards, Yali From: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com [mailto:li_= zhenqiang@hotmail.com] Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 9:28 AM To: wangyali >; draft-l= i-ippm-pm-on-lag > Cc: ippm > Subject: Re: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi Yali, Thank you for your support and suggestion. The extended STAMP with optional TLV is an option to do PM on LAG. We discu= ssed it internaly in our design team. The main concern about it is whether = it is hardware friendly. Since the base STAMP with extensions proposed in t= his doc is sufficient for PM on LAG, do you still prefer the TLV option? We= also want to know the opinion from this list. Thanks, Zhenqiang Li ________________________________ li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com From: wangyali Date: 2020-10-14 15:09 To: draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org CC: IETF IPPM WG Subject: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Hi authors, This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STA= MP extension. The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on mem= ber link of a LAG in your draft. Do you consider the extended STAMP propos= ed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG? Nits: OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST use the member link from which the Test packet is received to correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet is correctly transmitted over the expected member link. Best regards, Yali --_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE297EF2A97dggeml510mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Yali,

 

One clarify question, = do you mean that the additional option is just to allow the optional TLVs (= but has nothing business with PM on LAG function) that follow the base format as defined in the current draft, or to use the= optional TLV to implement the PM on LAG?  I assume it’s the for= mer.

 

Best regards,

Mach=

 

From: = ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of wangyali
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 11:45 AM
To: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag <draft-li-i= ppm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org>
Cc: ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /span>

 

Hi Zhenqiang,

 

Thanks for your reply.= As the optional TLVs, the length of the extended STAMP test packet, indeed= is variable. While such extensions enhance the STAMP base functions, which lead active PM to be scalable. I prefer that h= aving the extension formats to be an additional option in this draft.

 

Comments from other fo= rks are also welcome. J

 

Best regards,

Yali=

 

From: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com [<= a href=3D"mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com">mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com<= /a>]
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 9:28 AM
To: wangyali <wangyali11= @huawei.com>; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag <draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org>
Cc: ippm <ippm@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /p>

 

Hi Yali,

 

Thank you for your support and s= uggestion.

The extended STAMP with optional= TLV is an option to do PM on LAG. We discussed it internaly in our design = team. The main concern about it is whether it is hardware friendly. Since the base STAMP with extensions proposed in this d= oc is sufficient for PM on LAG, do you still prefer the TLV option? We also= want to know the opinion from this list.

 

Thanks,

Zhenqiang Li

 

From: wangyali

Date: 2020-10-14 15:09=

Subject: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag

Hi author= s,

 

This is a= valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extens= ion.

 

The basic= STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on member link = of a LAG in your draft.  Do you consider the extended STAMP proposed i= n [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG?

 

Nits:

OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro = STAMP Session-Reflector MUST

   use the member link from which = the Test packet is received to

   correlate to a micro STAMP sess= ion and use the Sender/Reflector

   member link identifiers to vali= date whether the Test packet is is<= /o:p>

   correctly transmitted over the = expected member link.

 

NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro = STAMP Session-Reflector MUST

   use the member link from which = the Test packet is received to

   correlate to a micro STAMP sess= ion and use the Sender/Reflector

   member link identifiers to vali= date whether the Test packet is

   correctly transmitted over the = expected member link.

 

Best rega= rds,

Yali=

 

 

--_000_F73A3CB31E8BE34FA1BBE3C8F0CB2AE297EF2A97dggeml510mbschi_-- From nobody Fri Oct 16 13:42:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF33F3A0AFD; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:42:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-1.2, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UTDrUxoDXhQ6; Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:42:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp03.apple.com (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp03.apple.com [17.171.2.72]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 602E63A0AFA; 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Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:42:20 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Message-id: Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8B56E3A0-C8AC-44E3-8F3D-7899429908C6" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 13:42:19 -0700 In-reply-to: Cc: Barak Gafni , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" , Tal Mizrahi , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" To: Haoyu Song References: <4941A7B7-7147-48C6-8A05-1D1572DFACA2@apple.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.687 definitions=2020-10-16_11:2020-10-16, 2020-10-16 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2020 20:42:29 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8B56E3A0-C8AC-44E3-8F3D-7899429908C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Oct 14, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song = wrote: >=20 > Hi Barak, > =20 > That=E2=80=99s a possible solution.=20 > The nature of DEX makes the DEX data correlation a unique = requirements. > Now we already have the built-in support for flow correlation (using = optional flow ID) and packet correlation (using optional sequence = number). The last piece is data order correlation. TTL/Hop Limit, if = exist, can be used to server this purpose=20 > (we also need to realize, this is not ideal because a missing TTL = number from the export data can imply either a dropped export packet or = a DEX-incapable hop. It=E2=80=99s not easy to tell). > Previously I suggest to use an optional hop_count to support it just = in case such info can=E2=80=99t be acquired elsewhere. =20 > If we don=E2=80=99t want to have this, then we need either provide an = alternative solution or claim we accept it in exchange of simplicity. > In any case, we should include the discussion to show the tradeoffs in = the draft. Ultimately the draft should just define one method and not present two = approaches. The rationale can be mentioned, perhaps in an appendix. Thanks, Tommy > =20 > Best, > Haoyu=20 > =20 > From: Barak Gafni > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:34:34 AM > To: Haoyu Song ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = ; Tommy Pauly > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org = ; IETF IPPM WG = (ippm@ietf.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > =20 > Hi Haoyu, > Thanks, I think this is a good suggestion. Taking that into = consideration, let's move forward with: > 1. Acknowledge current design for DEX w/o additional "special" = hop-count field > 2. Discuss needs and potential implications related to hop-count as = part of data draft, so one can use it for its applications >=20 > Does it make sense? >=20 > Thanks, > Barak >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Haoyu Song =20 > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:29 AM > To: Barak Gafni ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = ; Tommy Pauly > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; = IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >=20 > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments >=20 >=20 > Hi Barak, >=20 > I don't understand what do you mean the issue is not in the scope of = DEX draft. > The hop information is used to order the DEX data for the same user = packet along the path. > To make it work, you need to consider how such information can be = acquired in every possible application environment. > It's fine we can't foresee everything, but for the known ones, we'd = better have solutions ready, otherwise we might need expensive update in = the future. > (Having said that, I'm okay if we acknowledge and decide to accept = that in some case such information is missing) >=20 > Best, > Haoyu >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Barak Gafni > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 12:04 AM > To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tommy Pauly = ; Haoyu Song > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; = IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >=20 > +1 > My view is that if there is a need to discuss what a hop count is - = the scope is the data draft where it has been defined, rather than DEX. = Would you agree? >=20 > Thanks, > Barak >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:33 PM > To: Tommy Pauly ; Haoyu Song = > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; = IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >=20 > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments >=20 >=20 > Cc'ing IPPM WG. >=20 > IMHO it makes sense to tackle the question of how IOAM applies to L2 = networks as a separate topic. >=20 > Cheers, Frank >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tommy Pauly > > Sent: Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 20:35 > > To: Haoyu Song > > Cc: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tal Mizrahi=20 > > ; IPPM Chairs ; > > draft-ietf- ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > If there are scenarios where the hop limit/TTL is not available, = could=20 > > those not have a separate mechanism to define a hop limit? This DEX=20= > > alone could remain simple and without duplication for the L3 case, = but=20 > > not preventing combining with another mechanism for L2? > > > > Tommy > > > > > On Oct 2, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Haoyu Song > > wrote: > > > > > > =EF=BB=BFHi Frank and Tommy, > > > > > > It's also clear that "Hop_count" is not semantically identical to=20= > > > "Hop_lim" (or > > TTL) as specified in IOAM data. The most critical question is: what = if=20 > > Hop_lim is not available at all (e.g., in L2 networks)? Then how can=20= > > we get such information? We need to add explanations in the draft = how=20 > > to handle such a possibility, and how to get and interpret Hop_lim, = if it exists. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Haoyu > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > > > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 9:31 AM > > > To: Tommy Pauly ; Tal Mizrahi=20 > > > > > > Cc: IPPM Chairs ;=20 > > > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > > > Hi Tommy, > > > > > > as we all agree, one guiding principle in standards is to avoid=20 > > > reimplementation > > of an already available functionality. This principle helps=20 > > implementors and avoid a proliferation of different options to=20 > > implement the same functionality. IMHO we're presented with such a = case here. > > > > > > DEX was originally designed to avoid recording/updating the IOAM=20= > > > related > > metadata in the packet as the packet traverses the network, but=20 > > instead have every transited node create and immediately export the = OAM data of interest. > > Let's call this "Vanilla DEX". > > > > > > If we add "hop count recording", we create a "Hybrid DEX" mode, in=20= > > > that we > > record and update a hop-count field in the packet *and* have every=20= > > transited node create and immediately export the OAM data of = interest. > > The hop-count recording in this "Hybrid DEX" mode would just be a=20 > > re-implementation of a capability which we already have if we = combine=20 > > "Vanilla DEX" with "IOAM tracing". > > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01 kind of states this in section = 7 > > - but IMHO we should make it really clear that we're talking about a = re- implementation of an already existing capability. > > > > > > Maybe this context could help us to come to a conclusion on this = topic. > > > > > > Cheers, Frank > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Tommy Pauly > > >> Sent: Mittwoch, 16. September 2020 19:48 > > >> To: Tal Mizrahi > > >> Cc: IPPM Chairs ; > > >> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct- export@ietf.org > > >> Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > >> > > >> Hi Tal, > > >> > > >> We may need to take some time on our upcoming IETF 109 agenda to=20= > > >> dedicate to resolving this if we can=E2=80=99t get it done before = then. > > >> > > >> To get a sense from the authors, for either option, is there=20 > > >> someone who can=E2=80=99t live with that outcome? I can see the = trade offs=20 > > >> either way, and I do think we should prescribe only one method. = The=20 > > >> text lists the pros and cons=E2=80=94how do they weigh against = one another? > > >> > > >> Tommy > > >> > > >>> On Sep 15, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Tal Mizrahi=20 > > >>> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> =EF=BB=BFDear Chairs, > > >>> > > >>> There were no responses to this email, probably since everyone = who=20 > > >>> had comments about this open issue has already commented in the = past. > > >>> At this point we would like your help with proceeding to resolve = this issue. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Tal. > > >>> > > >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > >>> From: Tal Mizrahi > > >>> Date: Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:52 AM > > >>> Subject: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > >>> To: IETF IPPM WG > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> There is an open issue in the DEX draft about whether to include=20= > > >>> an explicit Hop Count field in the DEX header, or to rely on the=20= > > >>> existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field. > > >>> > > >>> Section 7 of the draft presents the pros and cons of each of = these=20 > > >>> alternatives. This issue has also been discussed on the mailing=20= > > >>> list a couple of times, and on the last few IPPM meetings. > > >>> > > >>> We would like to encourage non-authors to express their opinion=20= > > >>> about which approach should be taken: (1) use an explicit Hop=20 > > >>> Count field, or (2) rely on the existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data = field. > > >>> > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> Tal. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Here is a link to the draft: > > >>> = https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F = > > >>> da > > >>> = tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export%2F&a > > >>> mp > > >>> > > ;data=3D02%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C2f840fbff5b34808bb3f08 > > d > > >>> > > 866f0c247%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6373725315 > > 361 > > >>> > > 39070&sdata=3DzOeIUtzXzqkyb5D9pdc1UgUP%2Bnpjc0aB0AHU0Df8Y1E%3D > > & > > >>> ;reserved=3D0 > > >>> > > >>> Section 7 of the draft, which presents the two alternatives is=20= > > >>> quoted here for convenience. > > >>> > > >>> Hop Limit / Hop Count: in order to help correlate and order = the > > >>> exported packets, it is possible to include a 1-octet Hop = Count > > >>> field in the DEX header (presumably by claiming some space = from > > >>> the Flags field). Its value starts from 0 at the = encapsulating > > >>> node and is incremented by each IOAM transit node that = supports > > >>> the DEX option. The Hop Count field value is also included = in the > > >>> exported packet. An alternative approach is to use the = Hop_Lim/ > > >>> Node_ID data field; if the IOAM-Trace-Type > > >>> [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data] has the Hop_Lim/Node_ID bit set, = then > > >>> exported packets include the Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field, = which > > >>> contains the TTL/Hop Limit value from a lower layer = protocol. The > > >>> main advantage of the Hop_Lim/Node_ID approach is that it = provides > > >>> information about the current hop count without requiring = each > > >>> transit node to modify the DEX option, thus simplifying the = data > > >>> plane functionality of Direct Exporting. The main advantage = of > > >>> the Hop Count approach is that it counts the number of IOAM- > > >>> capable nodes without relying on the lower layer TTL, = especially > > >>> when the lower layer cannot prvide the accurate TTL = information, > > >>> e.g., Layer 2 Ethernet or hierarchical VPN. It also = explicitly > > >>> allows to detect a case where an IOAM-capable node fails to = export > > >>> packets. In order to facilitate the Hop Count approach it = is > > >>> possible to use a flag to indicate an optional Hop Count = field, > > >>> which enables to control the tradeoff. On one hand it = addresses > > >>> the use cases that the Hop_Lim/Node_ID cannot cover, and on = the > > >>> other hand it does not require transit switches to update = the > > >>> option if it is not supported or disabled. Further = discussion is > > >>> required about the tradeoff between the two alternatives. --Apple-Mail=_8B56E3A0-C8AC-44E3-8F3D-7899429908C6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8

On Oct 14, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi Barak,
 
That=E2=80=99s a possible solution. 
The nature of DEX makes = the DEX data correlation a unique requirements.
Now we already have the = built-in support for flow correlation (using optional flow ID) and = packet correlation (using optional sequence number). The last piece is = data order correlation. TTL/Hop Limit, if exist, can be used to server = this purpose 
(we also need to realize, = this is not ideal because a missing TTL number from the export data can = imply either a dropped export packet  or a DEX-incapable hop. = It=E2=80=99s not easy to tell).
Previously I suggest to use an optional = hop_count to support it just in case such info can=E2=80=99t be acquired = elsewhere.  
If we = don=E2=80=99t want to have this, then we need either provide an = alternative solution or claim we accept it in exchange of = simplicity.
In any = case, we should include the discussion to show the tradeoffs in the = draft.

Ultimately the draft should just define one method = and not present two approaches. The rationale can be mentioned, perhaps = in an appendix.

Thanks,
Tommy

 
Best,
Haoyu 
 
From: Barak Gafni <gbarak@nvidia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 = 10:34:34 AM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = <fbrockne@cisco.com>; Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Cc: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org <draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org>; IETF = IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) = <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting = Open Issue
 
Hi Haoyu,
Thanks, I think this is a good suggestion. Taking that into = consideration, let's move forward with:
1. Acknowledge = current design for DEX w/o additional "special" hop-count field
2. Discuss needs and potential implications related to = hop-count as part of data draft, so one can use it for its = applications

Does it make sense?

Thanks,
Barak

-----Original Message-----
From: Haoyu Song = <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> 
Sent: = Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:29 AM
To: Barak Gafni = <gbarak@nvidia.com>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>; = Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Cc: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG = (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
External email: Use caution opening links or attachments


Hi Barak,

I don't understand what do you mean the issue is not in the = scope of DEX draft.
The hop information is used to order = the DEX data for the same user packet along the path.
To = make it work, you need to consider how such information can be acquired = in every possible application environment.
It's fine we = can't foresee everything, but for the known ones, we'd better have = solutions ready, otherwise we might need expensive update in the = future.
(Having said that, I'm okay if we acknowledge and = decide to accept that in some case such information is missing)

Best,
Haoyu

-----Original Message-----
From: Barak Gafni = <gbarak@nvidia.com>
Sent: Wednesday, = October 14, 2020 12:04 AM
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = <fbrockne@cisco.com>; Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>; = Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
Cc: Tal = Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG = (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
+1
My view is that if there is a need to = discuss what a hop count is - the scope is the data draft where it has = been defined, rather than DEX. Would you agree?

Thanks,
Barak

-----Original Message-----
From: Frank = Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Sent: Tuesday, = October 13, 2020 11:33 PM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>; = Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
Cc: Tal = Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG = (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
External email: Use caution opening links or attachments


Cc'ing IPPM WG.
IMHO it makes sense to tackle the question of how IOAM = applies to L2 networks as a separate topic.

Cheers, Frank

> -----Original = Message-----
> From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
> Sent: Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 20:35
> = To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
> Cc: Frank = Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>; Tal Mizrahi 
> <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>;
> draft-ietf- = ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org
> = Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
>
> If there are scenarios where the hop limit/TTL is not = available, could 
> those not have a separate mechanism to define a hop = limit? This DEX 
> alone could remain simple and without duplication for = the L3 case, but 
> not preventing combining with another mechanism for = L2?
>
> Tommy
>
> > On Oct 2, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > =EF=BB=BFHi Frank and = Tommy,
> >
> > It's also clear = that "Hop_count" is not semantically identical to 
> > = "Hop_lim" (or
> TTL) as specified in IOAM data. The = most critical question is: what if 
> Hop_lim = is not available at all (e.g., in L2 networks)? Then how can 
> we get = such information? We need to add explanations in the draft how 
> to = handle such a possibility, and how to get and interpret Hop_lim, if it = exists.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Haoyu
> >
> = > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Frank = Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
> > Sent: = Friday, October 2, 2020 9:31 AM
> > To: Tommy Pauly = <tpauly@apple.com>; Tal Mizrahi 
> > = <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
> > Cc: = IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; 
> > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org
> > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
> >
> > Hi Tommy,
> = >
> > as we all agree, one guiding principle in = standards is to avoid 
> > = reimplementation
> of an already available = functionality. This principle helps 
> = implementors and avoid a proliferation of different options to 
> = implement the same functionality. IMHO we're presented with such a case = here.
> >
> > DEX was originally = designed to avoid recording/updating the IOAM 
> > = related
> metadata in the packet as the packet = traverses the network, but 
> instead = have every transited node create and immediately export the OAM data of = interest.
> Let's call this "Vanilla DEX".
> >
> > If we add "hop count = recording", we create a "Hybrid DEX" mode, in 
> > = that we
> record and update a hop-count field in the = packet *and* have every 
> = transited node create and immediately export the OAM data of = interest.
> The hop-count recording in this "Hybrid = DEX" mode would just be a 
> = re-implementation of a capability which we already have if we = combine 
> "Vanilla DEX" with "IOAM tracing".
> = draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01 kind of states this in section = 7
> - but IMHO we should make it really clear that = we're talking about a re- implementation of an already existing = capability.
> >
> > Maybe this = context could help us to come to a conclusion on this topic.
> >
> > Cheers, Frank
> >
> >> -----Original = Message-----
> >> From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
> >> Sent: Mittwoch, 16. September 2020 19:48
> >> To: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
> >> = Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>;
> >> = draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct- export@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: = IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
> >>
> >> Hi Tal,
> >>
> >> We may need to take some time on our upcoming = IETF 109 agenda to 
> >> dedicate to resolving this if we can=E2=80=99t = get it done before then.
> >>
> = >> To get a sense from the authors, for either option, is = there 
> >> someone who can=E2=80=99t live with that = outcome? I can see the trade offs 
> = >> either way, and I do think we should prescribe only one method. = The 
> = >> text lists the pros and cons=E2=80=94how do they weigh against = one another?
> >>
> >> = Tommy
> >>
> >>> On Sep = 15, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Tal Mizrahi 
> = >>> <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
> >> = wrote:
> >>>
> >>> = =EF=BB=BFDear Chairs,
> >>>
> = >>> There were no responses to this email, probably since = everyone who 
> >>> had comments about this open issue has = already commented in the past.
> >>> At this = point we would like your help with proceeding to resolve this issue.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Tal.
> >>>
> >>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
> >>> From: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
> = >>> Date: Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:52 AM
> = >>> Subject: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue
> = >>> To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> There is an = open issue in the DEX draft about whether to include 
> = >>> an explicit Hop Count field in the DEX header, or to rely = on the 
> >>> existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field.
> >>>
> >>> Section 7 = of the draft presents the pros and cons of each of these 
> = >>> alternatives. This issue has also been discussed on the = mailing 
> >>> list a couple of times, and on the last few = IPPM meetings.
> >>>
> = >>> We would like to encourage non-authors to express their = opinion 
> >>> about which approach should be taken: (1) = use an explicit Hop 
> >>> Count field, or (2) rely on the existing = Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field.
> >>>
> >>> Cheers,
> >>> = Tal.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Here is a link to the draft:
> >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%= 2F%2F
> >>> da
> = >>> tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-expo= rt%2F&a
> >>> mp
> = >>>
> ;data=3D02%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C2f840fbff5b34808bb3f08
>= d
> >>>
> = 866f0c247%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6373725315
> 361
> >>>
> = 39070&amp;sdata=3DzOeIUtzXzqkyb5D9pdc1UgUP%2Bnpjc0aB0AHU0Df8Y1E%3D
> &amp
> >>> ;reserved=3D0
> >>>
> >>> Section 7 = of the draft, which presents the two alternatives is 
> = >>> quoted here for convenience.
> = >>>
> >>>     Hop = Limit / Hop Count: in order to help correlate and order the
> >>>     exported packets, = it is possible to include a 1-octet Hop Count
> = >>>     field in the DEX header (presumably = by claiming some space from
> = >>>     the Flags field).  Its value = starts from 0 at the encapsulating
> = >>>     node and is incremented by each = IOAM transit node that supports
> = >>>     the DEX option.  The Hop Count = field value is also included in the
> = >>>     exported packet.  An = alternative approach is to use the Hop_Lim/
> = >>>     Node_ID data field; if the = IOAM-Trace-Type
> >>>     = [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data] has the Hop_Lim/Node_ID bit set, then
> >>>     exported packets = include the Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field, which
> = >>>     contains the TTL/Hop Limit value = from a lower layer protocol.  The
> = >>>     main advantage of the = Hop_Lim/Node_ID approach is that it provides
> = >>>     information about the current hop = count without requiring each
> = >>>     transit node to modify the DEX = option, thus simplifying the data
> = >>>     plane functionality of Direct = Exporting.  The main advantage of
> = >>>     the Hop Count approach is that it = counts the number of IOAM-
> = >>>     capable nodes without relying on = the lower layer TTL, especially
> = >>>     when the lower layer cannot prvide = the accurate TTL information,
> = >>>     e.g., Layer 2 Ethernet or = hierarchical VPN.  It also explicitly
> = >>>     allows to detect a case where an = IOAM-capable node fails to export
> = >>>     packets.  In order to = facilitate the Hop Count approach it is
> = >>>     possible to use a flag to indicate = an optional Hop Count field,
> = >>>     which enables to control the = tradeoff.  On one hand it addresses
> = >>>     the use cases that the = Hop_Lim/Node_ID cannot cover, and on the
> = >>>     other hand it does not require = transit switches to update the
> = >>>     option if it is not supported or = disabled.  Further discussion is
> = >>>     required about the tradeoff between = the two = alternatives.

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cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 02:47:51 +0100 Received: from DGGEML424-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.41) by lhreml728-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.79) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 02:47:50 +0100 Received: from DGGEML524-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.10]) by dggeml424-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 09:47:39 +0800 From: wangyali To: Mach Chen , "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag CC: ippm Thread-Topic: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag Thread-Index: AQHWo1utDv93C4Uf1UeC08LrPhOcw6mZdRWA///akwCAA3R/oA== Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 01:47:39 +0000 Message-ID: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F4050230A7@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> 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Hi Mach,

 

Thanks for your feedback. Yes. I mean= it=A1=AFs better to keep the base format which has been defined in the cur= rent draft. In addition, I suggest to add the additional option, which allow the optional TLVs that follow the base format.

 

Best regards,

Yali

&nbs= p;

=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8= =CB: Mach Ch= en
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2020=C4=EA10=D4=C216=C8=D5 15:31
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: wangyali <wangyal= i11@huawei.com>; li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag <d= raft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org>
=B3=AD=CB=CD: ippm <ippm@ietf.org>=
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: Comments for draft-li-= ippm-pm-on-lag

 

Hi Yali,

 

One clarify question, do you mean tha= t the additional option is just to allow the optional TLVs (but has nothing= business with PM on LAG function) that follow the base format as defined in the current draft, or to use the optional TL= V to implement the PM on LAG?  I assume it=A1=AFs the former.

 

Best regards,

Mach

 

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of wangyali
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 11:45 AM
To: li_zhenqia= ng@hotmail.com; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag <draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org>
Cc: ippm <ippm@ietf.org<= /span>>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /span>

 

Hi Zhenqiang,

 

Thanks for your reply. As the optiona= l TLVs, the length of the extended STAMP test packet, indeed is variable. W= hile such extensions enhance the STAMP base functions, which lead active PM to be scalable. I prefer that having the extension fo= rmats to be an additional option in this draft.

 

Comments from other forks are also we= lcome. J

 

Best regards,

Yali

 

From: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.co= m [mailto:l= i_zhenqiang@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 9:28 AM
To: wangyali <wa= ngyali11@huawei.com>; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag <draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@i= etf.org>
Cc: ippm <ippm@ietf.org<= /span>>
Subject: Re: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /p>

 

Hi Yali,

 

Thank you for your support and suggestion.=

The extended STAMP with optional TLV is an opti= on to do PM on LAG. We discussed it internaly in our design team. The main = concern about it is whether it is hardware friendly. Since the base STAMP with extensions proposed in this doc is sufficient fo= r PM on LAG, do you still prefer the TLV option? We also want to know the o= pinion from this list.

 

Thanks,

Zhenqiang Li

 

From: wangyali

Date: 2020-10-14 15:09

Subject:<= /span> Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag<= /span>

Hi authors,

 =

This is a valuable draft= discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension.

 =

The basic STAMP defined = in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on member link of a LAG in you= r draft.  Do you consider the extended STAMP proposed in [draft-ietf-i= ppm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG?

 =

Nits:<= /p>

OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-R= eflector MUST

   use the member link from which the Test packet= is received to

   correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the= Sender/Reflector

   member link identifiers to validate whether th= e Test packet is is

   correctly transmitted over the expected member= link.

 =

NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-R= eflector MUST

   use the member link from which the Test packet= is received to

   correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the= Sender/Reflector

   member link identifiers to validate whether th= e Test packet is

   correctly transmitted over the expected member= link.

 =

Best regards,=

Yali

 

 =

--_000_1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F4050230A7dggeml524mbxchi_-- From nobody Sun Oct 18 19:32:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAE843A1244; Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:32:41 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d7FksIf5fTuB; Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12f.google.com (mail-lf1-x12f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0346D3A1243; Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:32:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12f.google.com with SMTP id j30so12222515lfp.4; Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:32:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=jaApaHnx/O4K5H69r52Ky7S91rWb+7BhA4Ki1DfiL8I=; b=eavZhQDRVngqD5alL1Ts+jpqsCYT7RJYMm92O5vdpYNoK8SninuwqDwf2zbxOiBro0 wU2E6uJcr5aBsN7gqwzDKpw4WpVucGqV/H4Vp143X+vEyJc2GMsvLvQVe0eobm2E2J27 xXY7E3gnRc5PCO7/+WRqOz9ferbgg1dzLf0kfqc8uDzcdCJq9bCWnK3hMBDv5YdXw+cs wz+LbuhOj3ZmNU0WPBBk1R0RvggBxOMCLpN937hruWJy3K0mooT79pW3yNv+nrlpAQq5 IM8iRi2d1rxeOmkRXEzFLK9BY3ADTNVRS8ge5ken3RLHgfLgWsVHku4Dmd8XofR/wcjc bpzw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=jaApaHnx/O4K5H69r52Ky7S91rWb+7BhA4Ki1DfiL8I=; b=P1DFoeCT3696TH5hsQr5dUppiVOQvszPU9hib7mn+QcJmKqjYIyy6mhkOPeUIB9jhm S/OivvXZY++SfHQfIgpVe/YdbwFEPONFvqWG39UJPIt3ax50P88MnVCPlkXGU/qIzC6J HTzRpZoN+woVJFBQHImKWd2H2CaPzkcbRuF6svsbRJ+x4gIg+KQN6ZKwZLmr/IpmpV48 VUHJ9AzuVoOno4b9+FbwVHbSoBi+golZl19UtuX5b+rjcePBMMPbNJwRfCHXumV9B/S8 3X3HMdoLoswOA2H2maudfa9tUmzkzoQnDMAu9TTnY4R3wTJpoDYQAZ1uVFb+DZncEGVH HY2Q== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531hghGGHgZKrxvStlq2mm2n6Erl2FoYapbHToWnHsHSyb40U6wi G/LCChTrINAPTdsAPnLoHgUcUHBweW1RuMJ96likj3aN X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy/2b5SwOlGVLqJN+foTWaGn42lL3FeTMN9/nGx9Ln/uDV6frHbQtZoGHANjVBKVydlPlAr0INawqh5g0KkRWc= X-Received: by 2002:ac2:4ec8:: with SMTP id p8mr4710962lfr.433.1603074758025; Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:32:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2020 19:32:27 -0700 Message-ID: To: Haoyu Song Cc: "draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000080253c05b1fced94" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] review comments on draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 02:32:42 -0000 --00000000000080253c05b1fced94 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Haoyu, many thanks for your thorough review and detailed comments, much appreciated. I'll respond with the proposed updates later this week. Best regards, Greg On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : > Hi authors and IPPM, > > > > I reviewed the draft and see a close link of the proposed method with the > other methods in discussion in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and > comments for your consideration. > > 1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of > technology. In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the > telemetry data using one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of > doing so is clear and sound. > 2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to > align it with the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (= e.g., > data and header specification). It=E2=80=99s even possible to think ab= out it as yet > another option for IOAM. > 3. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger > (the transport header and timer). This is not a trivial process and t= he > scalability also needs to be considered. > 4. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet > header encapsulated? The current draft doesn=E2=80=99t provide enough = details on > these issues. > 5. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear > to me. It seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated > follow-up packets. Based on the description, if a follow-up packet is > dropped, then each hop on the remaining path will experience the timer > expiration and generate a new follow-up packet. Will these packets all= have > the same sequence number? If the original follow-up packet is just del= ayed > but not dropped, how will this and the other newly generated follow-up > packets are differentiated and processed? > 6. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the > data profile should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the > follow-up packet? > 7. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which > data is generated by which node? > > Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks! > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > --00000000000080253c05b1fced94 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Haoyu,
many thanks for your thorough review and det= ailed comments, much appreciated. I'll respond=C2=A0with the proposed u= pdates later this week.

Best regards,
Gr= eg

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote:

Hi authors and IPPM,<= /u>

=C2=A0

I reviewed the draft and= see a close link of the proposed method with the other methods in discussi= on in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and comments for your considerat= ion. =C2=A0

  1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of technology. = In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the telemetry data u= sing one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of doing so is clear an= d sound.
  2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to align it w= ith the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (e.g., data and = header specification). It=E2=80=99s even possible to think about it as yet = another option for IOAM.
  3. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger (the tra= nsport header and timer). This is not a =C2=A0trivial process and the scala= bility also needs to be considered.
  4. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet header encap= sulated? The current draft doesn=E2=80=99t provide enough details on these = issues. =C2=A0
  5. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear to me. It= seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated follow-up packets= . Based on the description, if a follow-up packet is dropped, then each hop= on the remaining path will experience the timer expiration and generate a new follow-up packet. Will these packe= ts all have the same sequence number? If the original follow-up packet is j= ust delayed but not dropped, how will this and the other newly generated fo= llow-up packets are differentiated and processed?
  6. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the data p= rofile should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the follow-up pac= ket?
  7. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which data is g= enerated by which node?

Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks!

Best regards,=

Haoyu

--00000000000080253c05b1fced94-- From nobody Mon Oct 19 07:59:46 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A46EF3A0317; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 07:59:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.803 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.803 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XfuRVnm6OHBA; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 07:59:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x134.google.com (mail-lf1-x134.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::134]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 755663A0920; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 07:59:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x134.google.com with SMTP id r127so14507927lff.12; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 07:59:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=8S6ciZcsglc49FP14aJwAV3XH1Uc1dzjRoAXrkWprv8=; b=qBsoEPYdvzbHQa1ELERYbjP2Y9GeddQKWxK0sdwRHj0KyjmcTANNqyQllhWJaHMCbo 3gDid5NTdaZzhn0GLO9uodA18K2nSA3juDN7H5JuGGjNjFLiqVaaMAW3coGCB4QwbqF2 /hBcIgNMZXjZh9Hpa3ckM9qH36DYmtqpA5x0I5tpIfxo8s1KE77EFArAAth/keoOHoeJ qPnCZO5CIsRfRog5TmEFukjoq2q9PNGgCL8appF6O/B+51m8IfIzoLSdr7OF0T76CZkO NFjE8scKzllyO4RFm0qZHUJqlXWL/bB26TH6c6E4TdquQBr0R8QX+oRy6wanN8iCHHfB iqSQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=8S6ciZcsglc49FP14aJwAV3XH1Uc1dzjRoAXrkWprv8=; b=K/palkCjpgfMLuHdXSkjwAtHPz1dfAJRZs9Jvl1EXHuQlZz6plSKX+vsXmkeatvtpQ oB4cSLbNbBfd82lLeDlE6/tnMMubVR3Bj4+ab35L/9JIIcJuen4zS9rYTgIKjXwRBJOw TFcbs8wMvj4S1rXxPVhPynTCcFa+Ilb83fGQkZUQ++XbgUm8jLkCABMIUqONPegckq5y QZKqtf9M8UoruE6d5+wtqMLLogLdCHw0sopa6YSmfKkcNiFkA0KXYGQbAWxnHytZZi/d DeginickleHR0+MjWlZgcr25FUtkMUw4GwVDSpjlYpJzs3n66q1utjBnFuMUk7UAIDJT mWxQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533oKgtRwcaZw+8IIA+39X6kx482hd4Ck9uSgDUbLc51Fc/SLDQ9 wVjLTcJmlV7viW6t5Hc7pQMhwX+DiyPIznHAHQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxYdfxKf53/oSzaB6fRZi2xBqgxkn4+lyDTfG6888nwEZmRXx7hW2Zra04RwAsulTglNOA00C8F6gEvH2TgZLw= X-Received: by 2002:a19:6816:: with SMTP id d22mr32277lfc.132.1603119578457; Mon, 19 Oct 2020 07:59:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F40500377D@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405005338@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F4050230A7@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F4050230A7@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> From: Rakesh Gandhi Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 10:59:27 -0400 Message-ID: To: wangyali Cc: Mach Chen , "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" , draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag , ippm , IPPM Chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000001a8d305b2075d98" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiBDb21tZW50cyBmb3IgZHJhZnQtbGktaXBw?= =?utf-8?q?m-pm-on-lag?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2020 14:59:44 -0000 --00000000000001a8d305b2075d98 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mach, The new fields defined in this draft conflicts with the control field format that has been already defined in SR drafts for some time now. LAG --------------------------------------------------------- | Sender Member Link ID | Reflector Member Link ID | ----------------------------------- SR: ----------------------------------- | MBZ |Se Control Code| ----------------------------------- - draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm - draft-gandhi-spring-stamp-srpm The proposed field in the SR drafts was discussed in March: https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/search/?q=3D%22draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-= srpm%22 The SR drafts were updated accordingly and presented in IETF 108 IPPM WG: https://www.ietf.org/proceedings/108/slides/slides-108-ippm-performance-mea= surement-using-stamp-for-segment-routing-networks-00 Thanks, Rakesh On Sun, Oct 18, 2020 at 9:48 PM wangyali wrote: > Hi Mach, > > > > Thanks for your feedback. Yes. I mean it=E2=80=99s better to keep the bas= e format > which has been defined in the current draft. In addition, I suggest to ad= d > the additional option, which allow the optional TLVs that follow the base > format. > > > > Best regards, > > Yali > > > > *=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA**:* Mach Chen > *=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4:* 2020=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=8816=E6=97= =A5 15:31 > *=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA:* wangyali ; li_zhenq= iang@hotmail.com; > draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag > *=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81:* ippm > *=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98:* RE: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag > > > > Hi Yali, > > > > One clarify question, do you mean that the additional option is just to > allow the optional TLVs (but has nothing business with PM on LAG function= ) > that follow the base format as defined in the current draft, or to use th= e > optional TLV to implement the PM on LAG? I assume it=E2=80=99s the forme= r. > > > > Best regards, > > Mach > > > > *From:* ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *wangyali > *Sent:* Friday, October 16, 2020 11:45 AM > *To:* li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag < > draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org> > *Cc:* ippm > *Subject:* Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag > > > > Hi Zhenqiang, > > > > Thanks for your reply. As the optional TLVs, the length of the extended > STAMP test packet, indeed is variable. While such extensions enhance the > STAMP base functions, which lead active PM to be scalable. I prefer that > having the extension formats to be an additional option in this draft. > > > > Comments from other forks are also welcome. J > > > > Best regards, > > Yali > > > > *From:* li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com [mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > ] > *Sent:* Friday, October 16, 2020 9:28 AM > *To:* wangyali ; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag < > draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org> > *Cc:* ippm > *Subject:* Re: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag > > > > Hi Yali, > > > > Thank you for your support and suggestion. > > The extended STAMP with optional TLV is an option to do PM on LAG. We > discussed it internaly in our design team. The main concern about it is > whether it is hardware friendly. Since the base STAMP with extensions > proposed in this doc is sufficient for PM on LAG, do you still prefer the > TLV option? We also want to know the opinion from this list. > > > > Thanks, > > Zhenqiang Li > ------------------------------ > > li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > > > > *From:* wangyali > > *Date:* 2020-10-14 15:09 > > *To:* draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org > > *CC:* IETF IPPM WG > > *Subject:* Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag > > Hi authors, > > > > This is a valuable draft discussing about PM on LAG through > OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension. > > > > The basic STAMP defined in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on > member link of a LAG in your draft. Do you consider the extended STAMP > proposed in [draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG? > > > > Nits: > > OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST > > use the member link from which the Test packet is received to > > correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector > > member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet *is is* > > correctly transmitted over the expected member link. > > > > NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Reflector MUST > > use the member link from which the Test packet is received to > > correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the Sender/Reflector > > member link identifiers to validate whether the Test packet* is* > > correctly transmitted over the expected member link. > > > > Best regards, > > Yali > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --00000000000001a8d305b2075d98 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mach,

The new fields defi= ned in this draft conflicts with the control field format that has been alr= eady defined in SR drafts for some time now.

LAG
------------------------------------------------------= ---
| Sender = Member Link ID | Reflector Member Link ID |
= -----------------------------------

SR:
---------------=
--------------------
|         MBZ          |Se Control Code|
-------=
----------------------------

The proposed field in the SR drafts wa= s discussed in March:

The SR drafts were updated accordingly and presented in I= ETF 108 IPPM WG:
=
On Sun= , Oct 18, 2020 at 9:48 PM wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi Mach,<= /p>

=C2=A0

Thanks for your feedback. Yes.= I mean it=E2=80=99s better to keep the base format which has been defined = in the current draft. In addition, I suggest to add the additional option, which allow the optional TLVs that follow the base format.<= u>

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Yali

<= span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;c= olor:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0

=E5=8F=91=E4= =BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Mach Chen
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 20= 20=E5=B9=B410=E6=9C=8816=E6=97=A5 15:31
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: wangyali &l= t;wangyali11@hua= wei.com>; li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag <draft-li-ippm-pm-o= n-lag@ietf.org>
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: Comments for dra= ft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag

=C2=A0

Hi Yali,<= /p>

=C2=A0

One clarify question, do you m= ean that the additional option is just to allow the optional TLVs (but has = nothing business with PM on LAG function) that follow the base format as defined in the current draft, or to use the optional TL= V to implement the PM on LAG?=C2=A0 I assume it=E2=80=99s the former.

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Mach

=C2=A0

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf Of wangyali
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 11:45 AM
To: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag <= draft-= li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org>
Cc: ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag

=C2=A0

Hi Zhenqiang,

=C2=A0

Thanks for your reply. As the op= tional TLVs, the length of the extended STAMP test packet, indeed is variab= le. While such extensions enhance the STAMP base functions, which lead active PM to be scalable. I prefer that having the extension fo= rmats to be an additional option in this draft.

=C2=A0

Comments from other forks are al= so welcome. J

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Yali

=C2=A0

From: li_zhen= qiang@hotmail.com [mailto:li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com]
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 9:28 AM
To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>; draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag = <draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag@ietf.org>
Cc: ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Comments for draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag

=C2=A0

Hi Yali,

=C2=A0

Thank you for your support and suggestion.

The extended STAMP with optional TLV is an opti= on to do PM on LAG. We discussed it internaly in our design team. The main = concern about it is whether it is hardware friendly. Since the base STAMP with extensions proposed in this doc is sufficient fo= r PM on LAG, do you still prefer the TLV option? We also want to know the o= pinion from this list.

=C2=A0

Thanks,

Zhenqiang Li

=C2=A0

From:=C2=A0wangyali

Date:=C2=A02020-10-14=C2=A015:09=

CC:=C2=A0IETF IPPM WG

Subject:=C2=A0Comments for draft= -li-ippm-pm-on-lag

Hi authors,

=C2=A0

This is a valuable draft= discussing about PM on LAG through OWAMP/TWAMP/STAMP extension.

=C2=A0

The basic STAMP defined = in RFC8762 has been extended to implement PM on member link of a LAG in you= r draft.=C2=A0 Do you consider the extended STAMP proposed in [draft-ietf-i= ppm-stamp-option-tlv] to be used for PM on LAG?

=C2=A0

Nits:=

OLD: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Ref= lector MUST

=C2=A0=C2=A0 use the member link from which the Test packet i= s received to

=C2=A0=C2=A0 correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the S= ender/Reflector

=C2=A0=C2=A0 member link identifiers to validate whether the = Test packet is is=

=C2=A0=C2=A0 correctly transmitted over the expected member l= ink.

=C2=A0

NEW: When receives a Test packet, the micro STAMP Session-Ref= lector MUST

=C2=A0=C2=A0 use the member link from which the Test packet i= s received to

=C2=A0=C2=A0 correlate to a micro STAMP session and use the S= ender/Reflector

=C2=A0=C2=A0 member link identifiers to validate whether the = Test packet is

=C2=A0=C2=A0 correctly transmitted over the expected member l= ink.

=C2=A0

Best regards,<= /u>

Yali

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
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--00000000000001a8d305b2075d98-- From nobody Tue Oct 20 01:22:45 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5ED1A3A0BB3; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 01:22:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MXEoLsVZZGWz; Tue, 20 Oct 2020 01:22:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9D6B3A0B8F; Tue, 20 Oct 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X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 984e564f-4557-4129-04f8-08d87566aa37 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 21 Oct 2020 02:11:47.3492 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: QPxtJvPKP6mRUTKKYW3Lqtb5i1s+TdumIrsNnapegUvRlA055bUaDQ5C5g5JoGlQh8aNYJyQDQA760IEaL5tFQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR13MB2341 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] draft-song-multicast-telemetry X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 02:11:53 -0000 --_000_BYAPR13MB2582CAF6DDDBF8DEA86BE642F41C0BYAPR13MB2582namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello wg, https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-multicast-telemetry/ has been u= pdated to more clearly define the problem with multicast in existing on-pat= h telemetry solutions. We propose solutions for multicast trees to be corre= ctly reconstructed while eliminating redundant data. To cut down on the red= undant IOAM data we propose a branch identifier to the postcard based solut= ions. Please review the draft and comment. Thanks, mike --_000_BYAPR13MB2582CAF6DDDBF8DEA86BE642F41C0BYAPR13MB2582namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hello wg,

 

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-multic= ast-telemetry/ has been updated to more clearly define the problem with= multicast in existing on-path telemetry solutions. We propose solutions for multicast trees to be correctly recons= tructed while eliminating redundant data. To cut down on the redundant IOAM= data we propose a branch identifier to the postcard based solutions.<= /o:p>

 

Please review the draft and comment.

 

Thanks,

mike

--_000_BYAPR13MB2582CAF6DDDBF8DEA86BE642F41C0BYAPR13MB2582namp_-- From nobody Wed Oct 21 00:36:12 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6CF553A1207 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 00:36:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FREEMAIL_REPLY=1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id E_AZuJtIxz5U for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 00:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42a.google.com (mail-wr1-x42a.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B85B53A1201 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 00:36:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42a.google.com with SMTP id s9so1773475wro.8 for ; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 00:36:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aGPVS64oDoTTz+dnRexCiTSdnRalMC5s2ArvkWm1A4g=; b=LOSqFLNJCvlA6Yl/4YoOpxE39dHYmAooYJrFI/+Vfff1YNEAsszJXk/SVSSuRjp1Ik y813VMlbSTDoixdhHi4qaGAwCscEPdlGueU83AkDRG0DTpNxoE+tukmySCo0qMDk0zk2 TT5XORzT+RkUibzYyLoxcJMHYks+hTAfj2J/vyOmInyh5VRWFtErIsRrlt8gilMhG73z NSfb5/lJjn+8hJXnxDGvGibJMn0pN3n89QdVZ+iQq5BwA23BCe/tK+jFLPmphI62EO5Y SQCmB6y3ItAXvPxlOZSud4BxmQiSb5TiLRF5fbeRecRI4B92Jz0Z2nUuEULYSglshyNU vYDw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=aGPVS64oDoTTz+dnRexCiTSdnRalMC5s2ArvkWm1A4g=; b=iVsrVCSucJ4picKXFdV4k8AKu33LRXJhMkGKsU5mqrYhZSchpfoyr1/kJP1qEcbIF2 I+hooqSY6wGGCpaI4GyZoYPj1fNIpJhWckL/u9nb2IksdNZvr1sd5XOgRSUsIqvMqUwE S3JzqNzb4OhSwhdNWAY6tw6uowjVL28hsSzAEZIsspgv0DaOeb8h0/gYg4D6pOWkIMOX Dd/8ktaD+x55zXVrfWORdag1rYTtncn02SWLm0kdADus3hrE0lcoh11p3qFYfEiwABpD oRhfwEm57bzbTeMox/ydpj84C7XAoNuaU4arpbpJq4Ie3t4p8eai1a9p2Sa0aJ+FrSlP qHsQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532ghLEeTcJMoXN7YwTYXH084/1oV+1juYF9lwC+zNPmqBwQIVic zTwU+emXGmn0asjtwtpZtRW1mH+XeA3p6ynBl/b0c0QhafA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxZ8uG4TSFzQ/ewazEGtoJ6zjUl5xG3K3a2qXBA5jHLfERbemnifLCnGrbXWMtiXiRHf+68B6nxhGnOLRcB4w4= X-Received: by 2002:adf:c3c6:: with SMTP id d6mr3057172wrg.206.1603265765033; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 00:36:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 10:35:14 +0300 Message-ID: To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" Cc: ippm Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New version about Performance Measurement on LAG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 07:36:11 -0000 Hi Authors, Thanks for posting this new draft. I believe it is definitely worth discussing in the IPPM working group. A couple of comments and questions: - It would be worth clarifying at the beginning that the scope of this draft is a measurement that is performed between two adjacent IEEE 802.1 bridges that are connected by a LAG. A small diagram may be very helpful. - More discussion is needed in the draft about how the field in the packets is correlated with the local link through which the packet was received. How does the session sender know the link ID of the session reflector? Is it pre-configured? Cheers, Tal. On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 6:48 PM li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com wrote: > > Hello All, > > Please review and comment the doc which defines extensions to OWAMP, TWAM= P and STAMP to implement performance measurement on every member link of a = Link Aggregation Group (LAG). With the measured metrics of each member lin= ks of a LAG, it enables operators to enforce performance metric based traff= ic steering policy among the member links. > > URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag/ > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01 > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag > > Best Regards, > Zhenqiang Li > ________________________________ > li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Wed Oct 21 06:54:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A56483A0BB2; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 06:54:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO 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header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T58HDpxl8-O3; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 14:52:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x22c.google.com (mail-lj1-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::22c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE9A83A09F8; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 14:52:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x22c.google.com with SMTP id c21so4146743ljn.13; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 14:52:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=JgobuiUV/NJuz5rJhQTEtoxd3FI0lBCKGpwPcd8uj/k=; b=fhkUIrpvs/ZgkXsoXNOW7mC0VlBMeoS4AjAH9Atb/VmHOKrf0s8q6PIciISpZWkf2V 8S3Va7iouYIQQSN/4RnUVMC9wc51mJPmn77ljhQ84G99l6uXJHysbIHc/T7aR1OEGbzc 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ABdhPJxLVmfCxqY/G94wgcyADbVSeYqrlrC4gmalnTdmgPkgyfAJigwym4PrfrZFSq5R2G08nYqcxTeMQmRFj9kdzj0= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:7206:: with SMTP id n6mr1966201ljc.279.1603317123700; Wed, 21 Oct 2020 14:52:03 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Greg Mirsky Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 14:51:52 -0700 Message-ID: To: Haoyu Song Cc: "draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000009edac905b2355bd7" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] review comments on draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2020 21:52:15 -0000 --0000000000009edac905b2355bd7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Haoyu, thank you for your comments, questions, and suggestions. Please find my answers, notes, and proposed updates in-lined below under the GIM>> tag. Regards, Greg On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : > Hi authors and IPPM, > > > > I reviewed the draft and see a close link of the proposed method with the > other methods in discussion in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and > comments for your consideration. > > 1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of > technology. In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the > telemetry data using one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of > doing so is clear and sound. > > GIM>> Thank you for your kind words, much appreciated. I fully agree with your characterization of telemetry collection methods the IPPM WG has been working on over the last several years. Each of the methods has advantages in some use cases. Together they, in my opinion, are complementary and compose a comprehensive set for the collection of telemetry information in a wide variety of scenarios. > > 1. > 2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to > align it with the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (= e.g., > data and header specification). It=E2=80=99s even possible to think ab= out it as yet > another option for IOAM. > > GIM>> Thank you for the valuable suggestion. I'll work on an update and hope to present it for the discussion at the IETF-109 meeting. > > 1. > 2. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger > (the transport header and timer). This is not a trivial process and t= he > scalability also needs to be considered. > > GIM>> I agree with your concern about the impact HTS may have on a node. Will highlight that in the Security Considerations section. > > 1. > 2. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet > header encapsulated? The current draft doesn=E2=80=99t provide enough = details on > these issues. > > GIM>> Thank you for pointing this out, I'll work on an update to add more details. The nature of a trigger could be, in my view, anything that functions similarly to an ACL. For example, an iOAM header or a designated packet in a flow of Alternate-Marked packets. An encapsulation of a follow-up packet must replicate the encapsulation of the trigger packet so that the follow-up packet, actually there could be a train of them, traverse the same nodes and links as the trigger. One advantage of HTS over embedding telemetry information in a data packet could be seen in an option not to use the same QoS as the data, thus minimize the impact of telemetry collection on a service. Of course, an operator may decide to use the QoS for the collection flow as for the data. > > 1. > 2. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear > to me. It seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated > follow-up packets. > > GIM>> In HTS. a single trigger may generate amount information that requires several follow-up packets. Sequence Number is intended to enumerate these follow-up packets. > > 1. Based on the description, if a follow-up packet is dropped, then > each hop on the remaining path will experience the timer expiration an= d > generate a new follow-up packet. Will these packets all have the same > sequence number? > > GIM>> If a follow-up packet is dropped, it is expected that the next HTS-enabled node will generate a new follow-up packet with the Sequence Number set to 0. All downstream HTS nodes are expected to collect their telemetry data into that follow-up packet as long as there's sufficient space. Otherwise, a new follow-up packet to be generated with the Sequence Number value incremented by one, i.e., 1. > > 1. If the original follow-up packet is just delayed but not dropped, > how will this and the other newly generated follow-up packets are > differentiated and processed? > > GIM>> Very interesting scenario, thank you. If the delay is longer then the wait timer, i.e., that packet is late, then it would be forwarded without any update and the HTS node should not be in 'waiting' state. > > 1. > 2. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the > data profile should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the > follow-up packet? > > GIM>> Thank you for the suggestion. I think that is some applications, e.g., iOAM, data profile is presented by the iOAM header. If HTS is used in combination with the Alternate-Marking method, the profile could be part of the follow-up packet. Would you agree? > > 1. > 2. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which > data is generated by which node? > > GIM>> Thank you for this question. I think that HTS should use iOAM data definitions as much as possible, including to identify the telemetry generating node. I will add a note to clarify that. > > 1. > > Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks! > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > --0000000000009edac905b2355bd7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Haoyu,
thank you for your comments= , questions, and suggestions. Please find my answers, notes, and proposed u= pdates in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.

R= egards,
Greg

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Haoyu Song &l= t;haoyu.song@futurewei.com&= gt; wrote:

Hi authors and IPPM,<= /u>

=C2=A0

I reviewed the draft and= see a close link of the proposed method with the other methods in discussi= on in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and comments for your considerat= ion. =C2=A0

  1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of technology. = In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the telemetry data u= sing one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of doing so is clear an= d sound.
GIM>> Thank you for y= our kind words, much appreciated. I fully agree with your characterization = of telemetry collection methods the IPPM WG has been working on over the la= st several years. Each of the methods has advantages in some use cases. Tog= ether they, in my opinion, are complementary and compose a comprehensive se= t for the collection of telemetry information in a wide variety of scenario= s.
  2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to align it w= ith the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (e.g., data and = header specification). It=E2=80=99s even possible to think about it as yet = another option for IOAM.
GIM>>= Thank you for the valuable suggestion. I'll work on an update and hope= to present it for the discussion at=C2=A0the IETF-109 meeting.=C2=A0
=
  2. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger (the tra= nsport header and timer). This is not a =C2=A0trivial process and the scala= bility also needs to be considered.
= GIM>> I agree with your concern about the impact HTS may have on a no= de. Will highlight that in the Security Considerations section.
  2. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet header encap= sulated? The current draft doesn=E2=80=99t provide enough details on these = issues. =C2=A0
GIM>> Thank you= for pointing this out, I'll work on an update to add more details. The= nature of a trigger could be, in my view, anything that functions similarl= y to an ACL. For example, an iOAM header or a designated packet in a flow o= f Alternate-Marked packets. An encapsulation of a follow-up packet must rep= licate the encapsulation of the trigger packet so that the follow-up packet= , actually there could be a train of them, traverse the same nodes and link= s as the trigger. One advantage of HTS over embedding telemetry information= in a data packet could be seen in an option not to use the same QoS as the= data, thus minimize the impact of telemetry collection on a service. Of co= urse, an operator may decide to use the QoS for the collection flow as for = the data.
  2. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear to me. It= seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated follow-up packets= .
GIM>> In HTS. a single trig= ger may generate amount information that requires several follow-up packets= . Sequence Number is intended to enumerate these follow-up packets.=C2=A0
  1. Based on the description, if a follow-up packet = is dropped, then each hop on the remaining path will experience the timer expiration and generate a new follow-up packet. Will these packe= ts all have the same sequence number?
GIM>> If a follow-up packet is dropped, it is expected that the ne= xt HTS-enabled node will generate a new follow-up packet with the Sequence = Number set to 0. All downstream HTS nodes are expected to collect their tel= emetry data into that follow-up packet as long as there's sufficient sp= ace. Otherwise, a new follow-up packet to be generated with the Sequence Nu= mber value incremented by one, i.e., 1.=C2=A0
  1. If the original follow-up packet is just delayed but not dropped, how will= this and the other newly generated follow-up packets are differentiated and processed?
GIM>> Very int= eresting scenario, thank you. If the delay is longer then the wait timer, i= .e., that packet is late, then it would be forwarded without any update and= the HTS node should not be in 'waiting' state.=C2=A0
  2. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the data p= rofile should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the follow-up pac= ket?
GIM>> Thank you for the s= uggestion. I think that is some applications, e.g., iOAM, data profile is p= resented by the iOAM header. If HTS is used in combination with the Alterna= te-Marking method, the profile could be part of the follow-up packet. Would= you agree?=C2=A0
  2. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which data is g= enerated by which node?
GIM>> = Thank you for this question. I think that HTS should use iOAM data definiti= ons as much as possible, including to identify the telemetry generating nod= e. I will add a note to clarify that.
=

Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks!

Best regards,=

Haoyu

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Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 08:31:51 -0700 Message-ID: To: Haoyu Song Cc: "draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000070018405b2442aac" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] review comments on draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step-05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2020 15:32:08 -0000 --00000000000070018405b2442aac Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Haoyu, I fully agree with your vision of building a comprehensive set of on-path telemetry collection mechanisms that share common elements as much as possible. I hope you would agree to join in the work on this draft. I'd be happy to welcome you as a co-author. Regards, Greg On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 3:36 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : > Hi Greg, > > > > Thank you for your feedback, your evaluation and measures all sound > reasonable to me. I think the goal is to try to reuse the existing works = as > much as possible and have a coherent suite of on-path telemetry methods > which can be chosen to use in various scenarios. I think there=E2=80=99s = no > one-size-fits-all solution so the diversity is necessary. Let=E2=80=99s s= ee what > other people consider about this. > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > *From:* Greg Mirsky > *Sent:* Wednesday, October 21, 2020 2:52 PM > *To:* Haoyu Song > *Cc:* draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG ( > ippm@ietf.org) > *Subject:* Re: review comments on draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step-05 > > > > Hi Haoyu, > > thank you for your comments, questions, and suggestions. Please find my > answers, notes, and proposed updates in-lined below under the GIM>> tag. > > > > Regards, > > Greg > > > > On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Haoyu Song > wrote: > > Hi authors and IPPM, > > > > I reviewed the draft and see a close link of the proposed method with the > other methods in discussion in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and > comments for your consideration. > > 1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of > technology. In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the > telemetry data using one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of > doing so is clear and sound. > > GIM>> Thank you for your kind words, much appreciated. I fully agree with > your characterization of telemetry collection methods the IPPM WG has bee= n > working on over the last several years. Each of the methods has advantage= s > in some use cases. Together they, in my opinion, are complementary and > compose a comprehensive set for the collection of telemetry information i= n > a wide variety of scenarios. > > > 1. > 2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to > align it with the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (= e.g., > data and header specification). It=E2=80=99s even possible to think ab= out it as yet > another option for IOAM. > > GIM>> Thank you for the valuable suggestion. I'll work on an update and > hope to present it for the discussion at the IETF-109 meeting. > > > 1. > 2. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger > (the transport header and timer). This is not a trivial process and t= he > scalability also needs to be considered. > > GIM>> I agree with your concern about the impact HTS may have on a node. > Will highlight that in the Security Considerations section. > > > 1. > 2. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet > header encapsulated? The current draft doesn=E2=80=99t provide enough = details on > these issues. > > GIM>> Thank you for pointing this out, I'll work on an update to add more > details. The nature of a trigger could be, in my view, anything that > functions similarly to an ACL. For example, an iOAM header or a designate= d > packet in a flow of Alternate-Marked packets. An encapsulation of a > follow-up packet must replicate the encapsulation of the trigger packet s= o > that the follow-up packet, actually there could be a train of them, > traverse the same nodes and links as the trigger. One advantage of HTS ov= er > embedding telemetry information in a data packet could be seen in an opti= on > not to use the same QoS as the data, thus minimize the impact of telemetr= y > collection on a service. Of course, an operator may decide to use the QoS > for the collection flow as for the data. > > > 1. > 2. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear > to me. It seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated > follow-up packets. > > GIM>> In HTS. a single trigger may generate amount information that > requires several follow-up packets. Sequence Number is intended to > enumerate these follow-up packets. > > > 1. Based on the description, if a follow-up packet is dropped, then > each hop on the remaining path will experience the timer expiration an= d > generate a new follow-up packet. Will these packets all have the same > sequence number? > > GIM>> If a follow-up packet is dropped, it is expected that the next > HTS-enabled node will generate a new follow-up packet with the Sequence > Number set to 0. All downstream HTS nodes are expected to collect their > telemetry data into that follow-up packet as long as there's sufficient > space. Otherwise, a new follow-up packet to be generated with the Sequenc= e > Number value incremented by one, i.e., 1. > > > 1. If the original follow-up packet is just delayed but not dropped, > how will this and the other newly generated follow-up packets are > differentiated and processed? > > GIM>> Very interesting scenario, thank you. If the delay is longer then > the wait timer, i.e., that packet is late, then it would be forwarded > without any update and the HTS node should not be in 'waiting' state. > > > 1. > 2. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the > data profile should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the > follow-up packet? > > GIM>> Thank you for the suggestion. I think that is some applications, > e.g., iOAM, data profile is presented by the iOAM header. If HTS is used = in > combination with the Alternate-Marking method, the profile could be part = of > the follow-up packet. Would you agree? > > > 1. > 2. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which > data is generated by which node? > > GIM>> Thank you for this question. I think that HTS should use iOAM data > definitions as much as possible, including to identify the telemetry > generating node. I will add a note to clarify that. > > > 1. > > Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks! > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > --00000000000070018405b2442aac Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Haoyu,
I fully agree with your vision of building a= comprehensive set of on-path telemetry collection mechanisms that share co= mmon elements as much as possible. I hope you would agree to join in the wo= rk on this draft. I'd be happy to welcome you as a co-author.

Regards,
Greg

On Wed, Oct 21, 2020 at 3:36 P= M Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@fut= urewei.com> wrote:

Hi Greg,

=C2=A0

Thank you for your feedback, your evaluation and mea= sures all sound reasonable to me. I think the goal is to try to reuse the e= xisting works as much as possible and have a coherent suite of on-path tele= metry methods which can be chosen to use in various scenarios. I think there=E2=80=99s no one-size-fits-all = solution so the diversity is necessary. Let=E2=80=99s see what other people= consider about this.

=C2=A0

Best regards,

Haoyu

=C2=A0

From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 2:52 PM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
Cc: draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step@ietf.org; IETF IPPM W= G (ippm@ietf.org) &l= t;ippm@ietf.org><= br> Subject: Re: review comments on draft-mirsky-ippm-hybrid-two-step-05=

=C2=A0

Hi Haoyu,

thank you for your comments, questions, and suggesti= ons. Please find my answers, notes, and proposed updates in-lined below und= er the GIM>> tag.

=C2=A0

Regards,

Greg

=C2=A0

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 1:03 PM Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurew= ei.com> wrote:

Hi authors and IPPM,

=C2=A0

I reviewed the draft and see a close link of the proposed method with the o= ther methods in discussion in the IPPMWG. Below are some questions and comm= ents for your consideration. =C2=A0

  1. I believe HTS has its place in the on-path telemetry branch of technology. = In essence, it sits just between IOAM and PBT: collect the telemetry data u= sing one dedicated and separate packet. The benefit of doing so is clear an= d sound.

GIM>> Thank you for your kind words, much appr= eciated. I fully agree with your characterization of telemetry collection m= ethods the IPPM WG has been working on over the last several years. Each of= the methods has advantages in some use cases. Together they, in my opinion, are complementary and compose a compr= ehensive set for the collection of telemetry information in a wide variety = of scenarios.

  1. =C2=A0
  2. To best progress this work, I think a good strategy is to try to align it w= ith the existing specifications of IOAM Trace and IOAM DEX (e.g., data and = header specification). It=E2=80=99s even possible to think about it as yet = another option for IOAM.

GIM>> Thank you for the valuable suggestion. I= 'll work on an update and hope to present it for the discussion at=C2= =A0the IETF-109 meeting.=C2=A0

  1. =C2=A0
  2. The nodes on the path need to maintain the states for each trigger (the tra= nsport header and timer). This is not a =C2=A0trivial process and the scala= bility also needs to be considered.

GIM>> I agree with your concern about the impa= ct HTS may have on a node. Will highlight that in the Security Consideratio= ns section.

  1. =C2=A0
  2. How is the trigger implemented and how is the follow-up packet header encap= sulated? The current draft doesn=E2=80=99t provide enough details on these = issues. =C2=A0

GIM>> Thank you for pointing this out, I'l= l work on an update to add more details. The nature of a trigger could be, = in my view, anything that functions similarly to an ACL. For example, an iO= AM header or a designated packet in a flow of Alternate-Marked packets. An encapsulation of a follow-up packet must repl= icate the encapsulation of the trigger packet so that the follow-up packet,= actually there could be a train of them, traverse the same nodes and links= as the trigger. One advantage of HTS over embedding telemetry information in a data packet could be seen in= an option not to use the same QoS as the data, thus minimize the impact of= telemetry collection on a service. Of course, an operator may decide to us= e the QoS for the collection flow as for the data.

  1. =C2=A0
  2. The definition and usage of the sequence number is not very clear to me. It= seems to be used to differentiate the internal generated follow-up packets= .

GIM>> In HTS. a single trigger may generate am= ount information that requires several follow-up packets. Sequence Number i= s intended to enumerate these follow-up packets.=C2=A0

  1. Based on the description, if a follow-up packet is dropped, then each hop o= n the remaining path will experience the timer expiration and generate a ne= w follow-up packet. Will these packets all have the same sequence number?

GIM>> If a follow-up packet is dropped, it is = expected that the next HTS-enabled node will generate a new follow-up packe= t with the Sequence Number set to 0. All downstream HTS nodes are expected = to collect their telemetry data into that follow-up packet as long as there's sufficient space. Otherwise, a new= follow-up packet to be generated with the Sequence Number value incremente= d by one, i.e., 1.=C2=A0

  1. If the original follow-up packet is just delayed but not dropped, how will = this and the other newly generated follow-up packets are differentiated and= processed?

GIM>> Very interesting scenario, thank you. If= the delay is longer then the wait timer, i.e., that packet is late, then i= t would be forwarded without any update and the HTS node should not be in &= #39;waiting' state.=C2=A0

  1. =C2=A0
  2. The specification of the data profile is also missing. Isn't the data p= rofile should be carried by the trigger packet instead of the follow-up pac= ket?

GIM>> Thank you for the suggestion. I think th= at is some applications, e.g., iOAM, data profile is presented by the iOAM = header. If HTS is used in combination with the Alternate-Marking method, th= e profile could be part of the follow-up packet. Would you agree?=C2=A0

  1. =C2=A0
  2. The telemetry is encoded as TLV. How can the collector tell which data is g= enerated by which node?

GIM>> Thank you for this question. I think tha= t HTS should use iOAM data definitions as much as possible, including to id= entify the telemetry generating node. I will add a note to clarify that.=

  1. =C2=A0

Please let me known if I missed or misunderstood anything. Thanks!

Best regards,

Haoyu

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martin.h.duke@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.20.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160348774532.5087.11656907644955122734@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 14:15:45 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] ippm - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 109 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2020 21:15:48 -0000 Dear Tommy Pauly, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. ippm Session 1 (2:00 requested) Monday, 16 November 2020, Session I 1200-1400 Room Name: Room 8 size: 508 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/109/sessions/ippm.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: IP Performance Measurement Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Tommy Pauly Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: Chair Conflict: quic httpbis taps add Technology Overlap: tcpm 6man spring Key Participant Conflict: bmwg People who must be present: Alfred Channon Morton Martin Duke Frank Brockners Greg Mirsky Tommy Pauly Ian Swett Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Mon Oct 26 00:51:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B283A19A3; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:51:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.20.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <160369869797.6966.14996545081001172360@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:51:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:51:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : In-situ OAM Flags Authors : Tal Mizrahi Frank Brockners Shwetha Bhandari Ramesh Sivakolundu Carlos Pignataro Aviv Kfir Barak Gafni Mickey Spiegel Jennifer Lemon Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2020-10-26 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet traverses a path between two points in the network. This document presents new flags in the IOAM Trace Option headers. Specifically, the document defines the Loopback and Active flags. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Oct 26 00:56:48 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F1CCF3A12CD for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:56:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FObgGSli1qbn for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:56:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com (mail-lf1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D0D293A12C5 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:56:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id 77so10553820lfl.2 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:56:43 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=KVc4xwn3+O3yvV28iH0jLLVLRarJNvEoriF7hGuTgb0=; b=vf+PriBzgpI9zz5zv0Z8uKq27UYjad3B6HqxYDr9JPqbP/1pNrCiuMYYIA6H7A1M9U xgWvNQ1aZdXMB57gHU7eRam0g8qIGaGS+X/3tmjnXEBeXOk+ex0PZZYUUV45G2V4/Suf Q6zCia6dQ1HkLNCVZYiM+9w0QS2AufdlKV8sPy/xtYdQTZ6WOf5qbz+6OeS1GgGa8r+N WuS86Yz87VbdSuqr5LiZWWqH4uc9A3CrK6Ezd39NHpjvxemwsc2x6H7gdDFkC28s7KMa nXyPCRUD+yJmBgdHbRVMpCFE366eN/4dn0NDPLBmCLGVe8+sX6xhPdxYLIpX4Sakc4qS A8vQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=KVc4xwn3+O3yvV28iH0jLLVLRarJNvEoriF7hGuTgb0=; b=uDpiNMwkuuKT+QYh32Dr42NDJIGudmzRKe2WDwtykg+i5A+DTSvIIa0hl+xiLAnlcD BDTl9dxEyT+3sx8xpffbJusFsL1b84iJX1bm3xqZILpKl8KDEsrUzBSq11C2sbj2W0xT Q/fr3pmyqLZp3c+aJRxmhGYK47Bb37vB8PWsy6/rz7TkwBnNhJuVM8tXXrjmeyuZ59jZ zyCywazowWx7G1/P9H6LAQOP8RTHlxgxaXcoMe46x/kxu7DK3KlgtmNjHI0eEIU9cXtM l45nZqc8Wzs/OEISNIkl/o00YW4kSZXQ2EVYIz0w5V4vh2CSsHYCBmusGmDEJrEywX8Z yemw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532P4wMD9QcZm+uYrFsfmkpQ4WkVPU9vzvX2NTKoOVUWfKoKmBOp OSKhjkJyWlT8Vwj3Obc3pwoXIR/PznrJlrjUOth3eSK3HU0qFA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwptlsAnb853UlNIDJGrdyMng5obCRGY2x5nPswXycSZohNcOZ+qchLJB92ktjiAqVyM5FRz58imU2pn8aE4jU= X-Received: by 2002:a19:8c1c:: with SMTP id o28mr4386954lfd.523.1603699001358; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 00:56:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <160369869797.6966.14996545081001172360@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <160369869797.6966.14996545081001172360@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 09:56:27 +0200 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 07:56:46 -0000 Hi, This version addresses the open issue we had about the loopback on the reverse path. The proposed solution has been discussed on the IOAM virtual meetings and IOAM mailing list, and seems to resolve the concerns that have been raised about loopback on the reverse path. Please let us know if there are any comments. Cheers, Tal. On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 9:51 AM wrote: > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. > > Title : In-situ OAM Flags > Authors : Tal Mizrahi > Frank Brockners > Shwetha Bhandari > Ramesh Sivakolundu > Carlos Pignataro > Aviv Kfir > Barak Gafni > Mickey Spiegel > Jennifer Lemon > Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03.txt > Pages : 11 > Date : 2020-10-26 > > Abstract: > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records > operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet > traverses a path between two points in the network. This document > presents new flags in the IOAM Trace Option headers. Specifically, > the document defines the Loopback and Active flags. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/ > > There are also htmlized versions available at: > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-03 > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission > until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Mon Oct 26 01:29:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1731C3A19AD; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:29:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 08Dei_t5ORb7; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32c.google.com (mail-wm1-x32c.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7D16D3A147D; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:29:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32c.google.com with SMTP id d78so10706355wmd.3; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:29:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/T0Mtqiwkkigl1/LyqvTLn7HDqA1GJKx7HDbtQzwAZM=; b=HC6dtC6KhkOPdgwpeq1OhoPrwlPf6vudIKT5eIPb3NPjiIHz9rppk4jdVWac9Rt2aS oM014AIVV5jTcLjvqX6jKQnvuKrBO96hq1jEauGcpNIxfI6ApjNn6L2n/Z08YJw3lynt kEteef2L9sPLVkBlXQmz5Dh6NBsrEX6AupYFeW5vn+kyrNJEEaU04ZJw4AWepXvjQqIk 9zPcOfvvUW25tDAUCJQcZEOoaLu0qoFePYGW+P5BB6m3YOAWTHp5SINc/NxECEhpTPFY md1QQsXVaiI/Sf7xrCpP4L5f5rg8ShuGa2uGm3nm0F/wrBvVXDI+vWCMB/FKr3NEPxum 7XMw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/T0Mtqiwkkigl1/LyqvTLn7HDqA1GJKx7HDbtQzwAZM=; b=UAOf7ZgsLlwMSiIoFbRLnZilDCs5updDnj7c1up0UiLjdm0cpvvFI304OlrDiPzIuO 9tqtqYwoLPNqCnADxWqYeuZhTe7oXE0RxMSj2EpUbcyKBR+wUO6CmF/N+SHH/ZOF4pJV 3WvOugJVnoSAFKZaXfUfRFb3tTGsfHvL7ibhFbD2Bob59ez4PRfxhhTcs2y8B7ExRopf UM93iz9LgXCNU+2ryBhjtMxWSmKPrMIBrA3HtJCt62UynV0qvaTwQ1t3aNE9Z5rPjRqe S+CVMNRrnv5JLl1ei4QveOtTFLE/UWwoIyvFXoWUTymSwYCuacvBDawOgzqdrYeYdrHO YVAg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5334p0qCj4Qy2YODTZ2Iq6u+SBsICPiAoHav7U+QgRxudBEF+IoX xHO1tr0t955DKd5qV1qoxVjnJ0/wytR+ZQ0JDpE= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwP1KsPffwEvAIHm1T8ShsJJZMBYo1fMPohevh/PeJqe0re+Rbyxj1QQRDh57k3lSqxYoKccdwnvRbA3rU1bII= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:c28a:: with SMTP id s132mr14570045wmf.67.1603700948724; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 01:29:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4941A7B7-7147-48C6-8A05-1D1572DFACA2@apple.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 10:28:56 +0200 Message-ID: To: Tommy Pauly , Barak Gafni , Haoyu Song Cc: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:29:13 -0000 Hi Tommy, Barak, Haoyu, I created a pull request that I believe resolves the issue based on the latest comments. https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/200 In the proposed version the Hop Count field is not included in the DEX header, but the discussion about it is included in an appendix. Please let me know if this makes sense. Thanks, Tal. On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 11:42 PM Tommy Pauly wrote: > > > > On Oct 14, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song wrote= : > > Hi Barak, > > That=E2=80=99s a possible solution. > The nature of DEX makes the DEX data correlation a unique requirements. > Now we already have the built-in support for flow correlation (using opti= onal flow ID) and packet correlation (using optional sequence number). The = last piece is data order correlation. TTL/Hop Limit, if exist, can be used = to server this purpose > (we also need to realize, this is not ideal because a missing TTL number = from the export data can imply either a dropped export packet or a DEX-inc= apable hop. It=E2=80=99s not easy to tell). > Previously I suggest to use an optional hop_count to support it just in c= ase such info can=E2=80=99t be acquired elsewhere. > If we don=E2=80=99t want to have this, then we need either provide an alt= ernative solution or claim we accept it in exchange of simplicity. > In any case, we should include the discussion to show the tradeoffs in th= e draft. > > > Ultimately the draft should just define one method and not present two ap= proaches. The rationale can be mentioned, perhaps in an appendix. > > Thanks, > Tommy > > > Best, > Haoyu > > ________________________________ > From: Barak Gafni > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:34:34 AM > To: Haoyu Song ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tommy Pauly > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org ; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > Hi Haoyu, > Thanks, I think this is a good suggestion. Taking that into consideration= , let's move forward with: > 1. Acknowledge current design for DEX w/o additional "special" hop-count = field > 2. Discuss needs and potential implications related to hop-count as part = of data draft, so one can use it for its applications > > Does it make sense? > > Thanks, > Barak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Haoyu Song > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:29 AM > To: Barak Gafni ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tommy Pauly > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@iet= f.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments > > > Hi Barak, > > I don't understand what do you mean the issue is not in the scope of DEX = draft. > The hop information is used to order the DEX data for the same user packe= t along the path. > To make it work, you need to consider how such information can be acquire= d in every possible application environment. > It's fine we can't foresee everything, but for the known ones, we'd bette= r have solutions ready, otherwise we might need expensive update in the fut= ure. > (Having said that, I'm okay if we acknowledge and decide to accept that i= n some case such information is missing) > > Best, > Haoyu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Barak Gafni > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 12:04 AM > To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tommy Pauly ; Haoyu Song > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@iet= f.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > +1 > My view is that if there is a need to discuss what a hop count is - the s= cope is the data draft where it has been defined, rather than DEX. Would yo= u agree? > > Thanks, > Barak > > -----Original Message----- > From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:33 PM > To: Tommy Pauly ; Haoyu Song > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@iet= f.org) > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments > > > Cc'ing IPPM WG. > > IMHO it makes sense to tackle the question of how IOAM applies to L2 netw= orks as a separate topic. > > Cheers, Frank > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tommy Pauly > > Sent: Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 20:35 > > To: Haoyu Song > > Cc: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tal Mizrahi > > ; IPPM Chairs ; > > draft-ietf- ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org > > Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > If there are scenarios where the hop limit/TTL is not available, could > > those not have a separate mechanism to define a hop limit? This DEX > > alone could remain simple and without duplication for the L3 case, but > > not preventing combining with another mechanism for L2? > > > > Tommy > > > > > On Oct 2, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Haoyu Song > > wrote: > > > > > > =EF=BB=BFHi Frank and Tommy, > > > > > > It's also clear that "Hop_count" is not semantically identical to > > > "Hop_lim" (or > > TTL) as specified in IOAM data. The most critical question is: what if > > Hop_lim is not available at all (e.g., in L2 networks)? Then how can > > we get such information? We need to add explanations in the draft how > > to handle such a possibility, and how to get and interpret Hop_lim, if = it exists. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Haoyu > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > > > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 9:31 AM > > > To: Tommy Pauly ; Tal Mizrahi > > > > > > Cc: IPPM Chairs ; > > > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > > > Hi Tommy, > > > > > > as we all agree, one guiding principle in standards is to avoid > > > reimplementation > > of an already available functionality. This principle helps > > implementors and avoid a proliferation of different options to > > implement the same functionality. IMHO we're presented with such a case= here. > > > > > > DEX was originally designed to avoid recording/updating the IOAM > > > related > > metadata in the packet as the packet traverses the network, but > > instead have every transited node create and immediately export the OAM= data of interest. > > Let's call this "Vanilla DEX". > > > > > > If we add "hop count recording", we create a "Hybrid DEX" mode, in > > > that we > > record and update a hop-count field in the packet *and* have every > > transited node create and immediately export the OAM data of interest. > > The hop-count recording in this "Hybrid DEX" mode would just be a > > re-implementation of a capability which we already have if we combine > > "Vanilla DEX" with "IOAM tracing". > > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01 kind of states this in section 7 > > - but IMHO we should make it really clear that we're talking about a re= - implementation of an already existing capability. > > > > > > Maybe this context could help us to come to a conclusion on this topi= c. > > > > > > Cheers, Frank > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > >> From: Tommy Pauly > > >> Sent: Mittwoch, 16. September 2020 19:48 > > >> To: Tal Mizrahi > > >> Cc: IPPM Chairs ; > > >> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct- export@ietf.org > > >> Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > >> > > >> Hi Tal, > > >> > > >> We may need to take some time on our upcoming IETF 109 agenda to > > >> dedicate to resolving this if we can=E2=80=99t get it done before th= en. > > >> > > >> To get a sense from the authors, for either option, is there > > >> someone who can=E2=80=99t live with that outcome? I can see the trad= e offs > > >> either way, and I do think we should prescribe only one method. The > > >> text lists the pros and cons=E2=80=94how do they weigh against one a= nother? > > >> > > >> Tommy > > >> > > >>> On Sep 15, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Tal Mizrahi > > >>> > > >> wrote: > > >>> > > >>> =EF=BB=BFDear Chairs, > > >>> > > >>> There were no responses to this email, probably since everyone who > > >>> had comments about this open issue has already commented in the pas= t. > > >>> At this point we would like your help with proceeding to resolve th= is issue. > > >>> > > >>> Thanks, > > >>> Tal. > > >>> > > >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > >>> From: Tal Mizrahi > > >>> Date: Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:52 AM > > >>> Subject: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > >>> To: IETF IPPM WG > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Hi, > > >>> > > >>> There is an open issue in the DEX draft about whether to include > > >>> an explicit Hop Count field in the DEX header, or to rely on the > > >>> existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field. > > >>> > > >>> Section 7 of the draft presents the pros and cons of each of these > > >>> alternatives. This issue has also been discussed on the mailing > > >>> list a couple of times, and on the last few IPPM meetings. > > >>> > > >>> We would like to encourage non-authors to express their opinion > > >>> about which approach should be taken: (1) use an explicit Hop > > >>> Count field, or (2) rely on the existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field= . > > >>> > > >>> Cheers, > > >>> Tal. > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Here is a link to the draft: > > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2= F > > >>> da > > >>> tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export%2F&a > > >>> mp > > >>> > > ;data=3D02%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C2f840fbff5b34808bb3f08 > > d > > >>> > > 866f0c247%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6373725315 > > 361 > > >>> > > 39070&sdata=3DzOeIUtzXzqkyb5D9pdc1UgUP%2Bnpjc0aB0AHU0Df8Y1E%3D > > & > > >>> ;reserved=3D0 > > >>> > > >>> Section 7 of the draft, which presents the two alternatives is > > >>> quoted here for convenience. > > >>> > > >>> Hop Limit / Hop Count: in order to help correlate and order the > > >>> exported packets, it is possible to include a 1-octet Hop Count > > >>> field in the DEX header (presumably by claiming some space from > > >>> the Flags field). Its value starts from 0 at the encapsulating > > >>> node and is incremented by each IOAM transit node that supports > > >>> the DEX option. The Hop Count field value is also included in = the > > >>> exported packet. An alternative approach is to use the Hop_Lim= / > > >>> Node_ID data field; if the IOAM-Trace-Type > > >>> [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data] has the Hop_Lim/Node_ID bit set, then > > >>> exported packets include the Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field, which > > >>> contains the TTL/Hop Limit value from a lower layer protocol. = The > > >>> main advantage of the Hop_Lim/Node_ID approach is that it provi= des > > >>> information about the current hop count without requiring each > > >>> transit node to modify the DEX option, thus simplifying the dat= a > > >>> plane functionality of Direct Exporting. The main advantage of > > >>> the Hop Count approach is that it counts the number of IOAM- > > >>> capable nodes without relying on the lower layer TTL, especiall= y > > >>> when the lower layer cannot prvide the accurate TTL information= , > > >>> e.g., Layer 2 Ethernet or hierarchical VPN. It also explicitly > > >>> allows to detect a case where an IOAM-capable node fails to exp= ort > > >>> packets. In order to facilitate the Hop Count approach it is > > >>> possible to use a flag to indicate an optional Hop Count field, > > >>> which enables to control the tradeoff. On one hand it addresse= s > > >>> the use cases that the Hop_Lim/Node_ID cannot cover, and on the > > >>> other hand it does not require transit switches to update the > > >>> option if it is not supported or disabled. Further discussion = is > > >>> required about the tradeoff between the two alternatives. > > From nobody Mon Oct 26 08:44:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9943A0D6B; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R28qI-RJVGIt; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [17.171.2.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B3823A0D45; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09QFhqD9026075; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:36 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=content-type : mime-version : subject : from : in-reply-to : date : cc : content-transfer-encoding : message-id : references : to; s=20180706; bh=wOfP+8i5xwD8dF3o53xWOfXYdga4mAG5U3ROTEaedB8=; b=i9Tn8f5bYXlnxBSViuR2tY3by1hWYimsxe8meSX/kChP8RKiBUzIJ+nIkGIcfr5IxQAR HUOdzY4T39UN2Y3eToAsRg7XxLTkxk60J1CN+umt1P6O13LlIrTCHHVNGyHo9xgjtdoS AbNMZlRb7z/egBpTMRBCBE4k9+rbUUkwy55a6RDrNdSiKOK+XY7x7e7qpLEZnrh79y0p ulnKRtFrIxT3zOe1wih5+pjhAb8l8f62LUWt/FcSF2KmfnQL8Wt4UAbvAtTKZM9GkXro tab0frcNYIdFMOfxJqMOtMzRvB9BK/xDzAMRzZzL4jMEpAuxxCNuYEAtnpDFSPvikS81 Bg== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.149]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com with ESMTP id 34cgxuga4j-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:35 -0700 Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.15]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPS id <0QIT00179FQB2S20@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com>; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) id <0QIT00300FG14O00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com>; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 4b244f5789786077edab6953abd1f065 X-Va-E-CD: cb172ce4fde3b1c2a443923cf76b8407 X-Va-R-CD: 4fd6f502f6287b07357142245659a813 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: ff57939c-b872-4e8c-85a1-62fc807c774f X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 4b244f5789786077edab6953abd1f065 X-V-E-CD: cb172ce4fde3b1c2a443923cf76b8407 X-V-R-CD: 4fd6f502f6287b07357142245659a813 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: f01e0402-6e83-481b-b535-243ab5f7663b X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-26_08:2020-10-26, 2020-10-26 signatures=0 Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [17.232.192.58]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPSA id <0QIT00QHZFQ4EM00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com>; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:35 -0700 (PDT) Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) From: Tommy Pauly In-reply-to: Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 08:44:24 -0700 Cc: Barak Gafni , Haoyu Song , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Message-id: References: <4941A7B7-7147-48C6-8A05-1D1572DFACA2@apple.com> To: Tal Mizrahi X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.235, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-26_08:2020-10-26, 2020-10-26 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2020 15:44:56 -0000 Hi Tal, This proposal looks good to me. Thanks for writing it up! Tommy > On Oct 26, 2020, at 1:28 AM, Tal Mizrahi = wrote: >=20 > Hi Tommy, Barak, Haoyu, >=20 > I created a pull request that I believe resolves the issue based on > the latest comments. >=20 > https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/200 >=20 > In the proposed version the Hop Count field is not included in the DEX > header, but the discussion about it is included in an appendix. >=20 > Please let me know if this makes sense. >=20 > Thanks, > Tal. >=20 > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 11:42 PM Tommy Pauly wrote: >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> On Oct 14, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song = wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Barak, >>=20 >> That=E2=80=99s a possible solution. >> The nature of DEX makes the DEX data correlation a unique = requirements. >> Now we already have the built-in support for flow correlation (using = optional flow ID) and packet correlation (using optional sequence = number). The last piece is data order correlation. TTL/Hop Limit, if = exist, can be used to server this purpose >> (we also need to realize, this is not ideal because a missing TTL = number from the export data can imply either a dropped export packet or = a DEX-incapable hop. It=E2=80=99s not easy to tell). >> Previously I suggest to use an optional hop_count to support it just = in case such info can=E2=80=99t be acquired elsewhere. >> If we don=E2=80=99t want to have this, then we need either provide an = alternative solution or claim we accept it in exchange of simplicity. >> In any case, we should include the discussion to show the tradeoffs = in the draft. >>=20 >>=20 >> Ultimately the draft should just define one method and not present = two approaches. The rationale can be mentioned, perhaps in an appendix. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Tommy >>=20 >>=20 >> Best, >> Haoyu >>=20 >> ________________________________ >> From: Barak Gafni >> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:34:34 AM >> To: Haoyu Song ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = ; Tommy Pauly >> Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org = ; IETF IPPM WG = (ippm@ietf.org) >> Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>=20 >> Hi Haoyu, >> Thanks, I think this is a good suggestion. Taking that into = consideration, let's move forward with: >> 1. Acknowledge current design for DEX w/o additional "special" = hop-count field >> 2. Discuss needs and potential implications related to hop-count as = part of data draft, so one can use it for its applications >>=20 >> Does it make sense? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Barak >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Haoyu Song >> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:29 AM >> To: Barak Gafni ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) = ; Tommy Pauly >> Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; = IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) >> Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>=20 >> External email: Use caution opening links or attachments >>=20 >>=20 >> Hi Barak, >>=20 >> I don't understand what do you mean the issue is not in the scope of = DEX draft. >> The hop information is used to order the DEX data for the same user = packet along the path. >> To make it work, you need to consider how such information can be = acquired in every possible application environment. >> It's fine we can't foresee everything, but for the known ones, we'd = better have solutions ready, otherwise we might need expensive update in = the future. >> (Having said that, I'm okay if we acknowledge and decide to accept = that in some case such information is missing) >>=20 >> Best, >> Haoyu >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Barak Gafni >> Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 12:04 AM >> To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tommy Pauly = ; Haoyu Song >> Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; = IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) >> Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>=20 >> +1 >> My view is that if there is a need to discuss what a hop count is - = the scope is the data draft where it has been defined, rather than DEX. = Would you agree? >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Barak >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) >> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:33 PM >> To: Tommy Pauly ; Haoyu Song = >> Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs = ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; = IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) >> Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>=20 >> External email: Use caution opening links or attachments >>=20 >>=20 >> Cc'ing IPPM WG. >>=20 >> IMHO it makes sense to tackle the question of how IOAM applies to L2 = networks as a separate topic. >>=20 >> Cheers, Frank >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Tommy Pauly >>> Sent: Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 20:35 >>> To: Haoyu Song >>> Cc: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tal Mizrahi >>> ; IPPM Chairs ; >>> draft-ietf- ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>>=20 >>> If there are scenarios where the hop limit/TTL is not available, = could >>> those not have a separate mechanism to define a hop limit? This DEX >>> alone could remain simple and without duplication for the L3 case, = but >>> not preventing combining with another mechanism for L2? >>>=20 >>> Tommy >>>=20 >>>> On Oct 2, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Haoyu Song >>> wrote: >>>>=20 >>>> =EF=BB=BFHi Frank and Tommy, >>>>=20 >>>> It's also clear that "Hop_count" is not semantically identical to >>>> "Hop_lim" (or >>> TTL) as specified in IOAM data. The most critical question is: what = if >>> Hop_lim is not available at all (e.g., in L2 networks)? Then how can >>> we get such information? We need to add explanations in the draft = how >>> to handle such a possibility, and how to get and interpret Hop_lim, = if it exists. >>>>=20 >>>> Best regards, >>>> Haoyu >>>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) >>>> Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 9:31 AM >>>> To: Tommy Pauly ; Tal Mizrahi >>>> >>>> Cc: IPPM Chairs ; >>>> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Tommy, >>>>=20 >>>> as we all agree, one guiding principle in standards is to avoid >>>> reimplementation >>> of an already available functionality. This principle helps >>> implementors and avoid a proliferation of different options to >>> implement the same functionality. IMHO we're presented with such a = case here. >>>>=20 >>>> DEX was originally designed to avoid recording/updating the IOAM >>>> related >>> metadata in the packet as the packet traverses the network, but >>> instead have every transited node create and immediately export the = OAM data of interest. >>> Let's call this "Vanilla DEX". >>>>=20 >>>> If we add "hop count recording", we create a "Hybrid DEX" mode, in >>>> that we >>> record and update a hop-count field in the packet *and* have every >>> transited node create and immediately export the OAM data of = interest. >>> The hop-count recording in this "Hybrid DEX" mode would just be a >>> re-implementation of a capability which we already have if we = combine >>> "Vanilla DEX" with "IOAM tracing". >>> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01 kind of states this in section = 7 >>> - but IMHO we should make it really clear that we're talking about a = re- implementation of an already existing capability. >>>>=20 >>>> Maybe this context could help us to come to a conclusion on this = topic. >>>>=20 >>>> Cheers, Frank >>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Tommy Pauly >>>>> Sent: Mittwoch, 16. September 2020 19:48 >>>>> To: Tal Mizrahi >>>>> Cc: IPPM Chairs ; >>>>> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct- export@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Tal, >>>>>=20 >>>>> We may need to take some time on our upcoming IETF 109 agenda to >>>>> dedicate to resolving this if we can=E2=80=99t get it done before = then. >>>>>=20 >>>>> To get a sense from the authors, for either option, is there >>>>> someone who can=E2=80=99t live with that outcome? I can see the = trade offs >>>>> either way, and I do think we should prescribe only one method. = The >>>>> text lists the pros and cons=E2=80=94how do they weigh against one = another? >>>>>=20 >>>>> Tommy >>>>>=20 >>>>>> On Sep 15, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Tal Mizrahi >>>>>> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> =EF=BB=BFDear Chairs, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> There were no responses to this email, probably since everyone = who >>>>>> had comments about this open issue has already commented in the = past. >>>>>> At this point we would like your help with proceeding to resolve = this issue. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Tal. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>>>>> From: Tal Mizrahi >>>>>> Date: Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:52 AM >>>>>> Subject: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue >>>>>> To: IETF IPPM WG >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> There is an open issue in the DEX draft about whether to include >>>>>> an explicit Hop Count field in the DEX header, or to rely on the >>>>>> existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Section 7 of the draft presents the pros and cons of each of = these >>>>>> alternatives. This issue has also been discussed on the mailing >>>>>> list a couple of times, and on the last few IPPM meetings. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> We would like to encourage non-authors to express their opinion >>>>>> about which approach should be taken: (1) use an explicit Hop >>>>>> Count field, or (2) rely on the existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data = field. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Tal. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Here is a link to the draft: >>>>>> = https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2F >>>>>> da >>>>>> = tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export%2F&a >>>>>> mp >>>>>>=20 >>> ;data=3D02%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C2f840fbff5b34808bb3f08 >>> d >>>>>>=20 >>> 866f0c247%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6373725315 >>> 361 >>>>>>=20 >>> 39070&sdata=3DzOeIUtzXzqkyb5D9pdc1UgUP%2Bnpjc0aB0AHU0Df8Y1E%3D >>> & >>>>>> ;reserved=3D0 >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Section 7 of the draft, which presents the two alternatives is >>>>>> quoted here for convenience. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Hop Limit / Hop Count: in order to help correlate and order = the >>>>>> exported packets, it is possible to include a 1-octet Hop = Count >>>>>> field in the DEX header (presumably by claiming some space = from >>>>>> the Flags field). Its value starts from 0 at the = encapsulating >>>>>> node and is incremented by each IOAM transit node that = supports >>>>>> the DEX option. The Hop Count field value is also included in = the >>>>>> exported packet. An alternative approach is to use the = Hop_Lim/ >>>>>> Node_ID data field; if the IOAM-Trace-Type >>>>>> [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data] has the Hop_Lim/Node_ID bit set, = then >>>>>> exported packets include the Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field, which >>>>>> contains the TTL/Hop Limit value from a lower layer protocol. = The >>>>>> main advantage of the Hop_Lim/Node_ID approach is that it = provides >>>>>> information about the current hop count without requiring each >>>>>> transit node to modify the DEX option, thus simplifying the = data >>>>>> plane functionality of Direct Exporting. The main advantage = of >>>>>> the Hop Count approach is that it counts the number of IOAM- >>>>>> capable nodes without relying on the lower layer TTL, = especially >>>>>> when the lower layer cannot prvide the accurate TTL = information, >>>>>> e.g., Layer 2 Ethernet or hierarchical VPN. It also = explicitly >>>>>> allows to detect a case where an IOAM-capable node fails to = export >>>>>> packets. In order to facilitate the Hop Count approach it is >>>>>> possible to use a flag to indicate an optional Hop Count = field, >>>>>> which enables to control the tradeoff. On one hand it = addresses >>>>>> the use cases that the Hop_Lim/Node_ID cannot cover, and on = the >>>>>> other hand it does not require transit switches to update the >>>>>> option if it is not supported or disabled. Further discussion = is >>>>>> required about the tradeoff between the two alternatives. >>=20 >>=20 From nobody Mon Oct 26 11:46:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B75D3A0BE5; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 11:45:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.09 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.09 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m4YgxWtvCST6; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 11:45:56 -0700 (PDT) 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aGVyIGhhbmQgaXQgZG9lcyBub3QgcmVxdWlyZSB0cmFuc2l0IHN3aXRjaGVzIHRvIHVwZGF0ZSB0 aGUNCj4gPiA+Pj4gICAgIG9wdGlvbiBpZiBpdCBpcyBub3Qgc3VwcG9ydGVkIG9yIGRpc2FibGVk LiAgRnVydGhlciBkaXNjdXNzaW9uIGlzDQo+ID4gPj4+ICAgICByZXF1aXJlZCBhYm91dCB0aGUg dHJhZGVvZmYgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgdHdvIGFsdGVybmF0aXZlcy4NCj4NCj4NCg== From nobody Mon Oct 26 19:03:59 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E1F33A11D3 for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 19:03:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SDwpohjY1kaK for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 19:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB88C3A11CC for ; Mon, 26 Oct 2020 19:03:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml750-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 6A568E879B96E4710281; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:03:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from lhreml750-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.200) by lhreml750-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.200) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:03:52 +0000 Received: from DGGEML421-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.38) by lhreml750-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.200) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:03:52 +0000 Received: from DGGEML510-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.184]) by dggeml421-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.1.199.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 10:03:49 +0800 From: Mach Chen To: Tal Mizrahi , "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" CC: ippm Thread-Topic: [ippm] New version about Performance Measurement on LAG Thread-Index: AQHWp3zvYtWbRUk5tUiRsYwfTnJ7r6mquq/Q Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:03:49 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.140] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] New version about Performance Measurement on LAG X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 02:03:55 -0000 Hi Tal, Thanks for reviewing the draft and the value comments! Some responses inline ... > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tal Mizrahi > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2020 3:35 PM > To: li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > Cc: ippm > Subject: Re: [ippm] New version about Performance Measurement on LAG >=20 > Hi Authors, >=20 > Thanks for posting this new draft. > I believe it is definitely worth discussing in the IPPM working group. Thanks. >=20 > A couple of comments and questions: > - It would be worth clarifying at the beginning that the scope of this dr= aft is a > measurement that is performed between two adjacent IEEE > 802.1 bridges that are connected by a LAG. A small diagram may be very he= lpful. OK, will do that. > - More discussion is needed in the draft about how the ID> field in the packets is correlated with the local link through > which the packet was received. How does the session sender know the link = ID of > the session reflector? Is it pre-configured? For now, it assumes that reflector member link id is pre-configured. There = may be other ways that can be used to learn the ID dynamically, for example= , using the first Test packet to learn it.=20 Best regards, Mach >=20 > Cheers, > Tal. >=20 > On Wed, Jul 15, 2020 at 6:48 PM li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > wrote: > > > > Hello All, > > > > Please review and comment the doc which defines extensions to OWAMP, > TWAMP and STAMP to implement performance measurement on every member > link of a Link Aggregation Group (LAG). With the measured metrics of eac= h > member links of a LAG, it enables operators to enforce performance metric > based traffic steering policy among the member links. > > > > URL: > > https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01.txt > > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag/ > > Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag-01 > > Htmlized: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-ippm-pm-on-lag > > > > Best Regards, > > Zhenqiang Li > > ________________________________ > > li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > > ippm mailing list > > ippm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Tue Oct 27 06:48:42 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 165CA3A0AD7 for ; 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Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:48:37 +0000 Received: from DGGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.17.38) by lhreml735-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.86) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_0, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA) id 15.1.1913.5 via Frontend Transport; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:48:37 +0000 Received: from DGGEML524-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.10]) by DGGEML402-HUB.china.huawei.com ([fe80::fca6:7568:4ee3:c776%31]) with mapi id 14.03.0487.000; Tue, 27 Oct 2020 21:48:34 +0800 From: wangyali To: ippm Thread-Topic: New Version for draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-01 Thread-Index: AdasYaNf5HuEbcjjTW+88BYR+uS3xg== Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:48:33 +0000 Message-ID: <1520992FC97B944A9979C2FC1D7DB0F405050B14@dggeml524-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.136] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] New Version for draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-01 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2020 13:48:41 -0000 SGVsbG8gV0csDQoNCkRyYWZ0IGFib3V0IGV4dGVuc2lvbnMgdG8gU1RBTVAgZW5hYmxlIGhvcC1i eS1ob3AgT0FNIGRhdGEgbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgYW5kIGNvbGxlY3Rpb24gaGFzIGJlZW4gdXBkYXRl ZCwgd2hpY2ggd2FzIHByZXNlbnRlZCBpbiBJRVRGMTA4LiBRdWVzdGlvbnMgYW5kIGNvbW1lbnRz IGFyZSB3ZWxjb21lLg0KDQpCZWNhdXNlIHRoZSBwZXJmb3JtYW5jZSBvZiBpbnRlcm1lZGlhdGUg bm9kZXMgYW5kIGxpbmtzIHRoYXQgU1RBTVAgdGVzdCBwYWNrZXRzIHRyYXZlcnNlIGFyZSBpbnZp c2libGUsIHRvIHNvbHZlIHRoaXMgcHJvYmxlbSwgdGhpcyBkcmFmdCBleHRlbnRzIG9wdGlvbmFs IFRMVnMgdG8gU1RBTVAgYW5kIGluc2VydHMgSU9BTSBUcmFjZSBvcHRpb24gZGF0YSBpbiB0aGUg dGVzdCBwYWNrZXRzIG9yIGRpc3BhdGNoZXMgdGVzdCBwYWNrZXRzIHRvIHRoZSBPQU0gcHJvY2Vz cyBhdCBPQU0gRW5kcG9pbnQuICANCg0KSW4gdGhpcyBjYXNlLCB0aGUgU1RBTVAgaW5zdGFuY2Ug ZG9lcyBub3QgbmVlZCB0byBiZSBjb25maWd1cmVkIGF0IGV2ZXJ5IGludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBub2Rl IHRvIG1lYXN1cmUgdGhlIHBlcmZvcm1hbmNlIG9mIGludGVybWVkaWF0ZSBub2Rlcywgd2hpY2gg ZGVjcmVhc2VzIHRoZSBjb21wbGV4aXR5IG9mIE9BTSBpbiBsYXJnZS1zY2FsZSBuZXR3b3Jrcy4N Cg0KV2hhdCBkbyB5b3UgdGhpbms/IA0KDQpCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQpZYWxpDQoNCg0KLS0tLS1P cmlnaW5hbCBNZXNzYWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IGludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZyBbbWFp bHRvOmludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0c0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gDQpTZW50OiBUdWVzZGF5LCBPY3RvYmVyIDI3 LCAyMDIwIDk6MDMgUE0NClRvOiB3YW5neWFsaSA8d2FuZ3lhbGkxMUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPjsgVGlh bnJhbiBaaG91IDx6aG91dGlhbnJhbkBodWF3ZWkuY29tPg0KU3ViamVjdDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24g Tm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC13YW5nLWlwcG0tc3RhbXAtaGJoLWV4dGVuc2lvbnMtMDEu dHh0DQoNCg0KQSBuZXcgdmVyc2lvbiBvZiBJLUQsIGRyYWZ0LXdhbmctaXBwbS1zdGFtcC1oYmgt ZXh0ZW5zaW9ucy0wMS50eHQNCmhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Y2Nlc3NmdWxseSBzdWJtaXR0ZWQgYnkgWWFs aSBXYW5nIGFuZCBwb3N0ZWQgdG8gdGhlIElFVEYgcmVwb3NpdG9yeS4NCg0KTmFtZToJCWRyYWZ0 LXdhbmctaXBwbS1zdGFtcC1oYmgtZXh0ZW5zaW9ucw0KUmV2aXNpb246CTAxDQpUaXRsZToJCVNp bXBsZSBUd28td2F5IEFjdGl2ZSBNZWFzdXJlbWVudCBQcm90b2NvbCBFeHRlbnNpb25zIGZvciBI b3AtYnktSG9wIE9BTSBEYXRhIENvbGxlY3Rpb24NCkRvY3VtZW50IGRhdGU6CTIwMjAtMTAtMjcN Ckdyb3VwOgkJSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uDQpQYWdlczoJCTEwDQpVUkw6ICAgICAgICAg ICAgaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvYXJjaGl2ZS9pZC9kcmFmdC13YW5nLWlwcG0tc3RhbXAt aGJoLWV4dGVuc2lvbnMtMDEudHh0DQpTdGF0dXM6ICAgICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRhdHJhY2tl ci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvZHJhZnQtd2FuZy1pcHBtLXN0YW1wLWhiaC1leHRlbnNpb25zLw0KSHRt bGl6ZWQ6ICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQt d2FuZy1pcHBtLXN0YW1wLWhiaC1leHRlbnNpb25zDQpIdG1saXplZDogICAgICAgaHR0cHM6Ly90 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy9odG1sL2RyYWZ0LXdhbmctaXBwbS1zdGFtcC1oYmgtZXh0ZW5zaW9ucy0w MQ0KRGlmZjogICAgICAgICAgIGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/dXJsMj1kcmFm dC13YW5nLWlwcG0tc3RhbXAtaGJoLWV4dGVuc2lvbnMtMDENCg0KQWJzdHJhY3Q6DQogICBUaGlz IGRvY3VtZW50IGRlZmluZXMgb3B0aW9uYWwgVExWcyB3aGljaCBhcmUgY2FycmllZCBpbiBTaW1w bGUgVHdvLQ0KICAgd2F5IEFjdGl2ZSBNZWFzdXJlbWVudCBQcm90b2NvbCAoU1RBTVApIHRlc3Qg cGFja2V0cyB0byBlbmhhbmNlIHRoZQ0KICAgU1RBTVAgYmFzZSBmdW5jdGlvbnMuICBTdWNoIGV4 dGVuc2lvbnMgdG8gU1RBTVAgZW5hYmxlIE9BTSBkYXRhDQogICBtZWFzdXJlbWVudCBhbmQgY29s bGVjdGlvbiBhdCBldmVyeSBub2RlIGFuZCBsaW5rIGFsb25nIGEgU1RBTVAgdGVzdA0KICAgcGFj a2V0J3MgZGVsaXZlcnkgcGF0aC4NCg0KDQogICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgDQoNCg0K UGxlYXNlIG5vdGUgdGhhdCBpdCBtYXkgdGFrZSBhIGNvdXBsZSBvZiBtaW51dGVzIGZyb20gdGhl IHRpbWUgb2Ygc3VibWlzc2lvbiB1bnRpbCB0aGUgaHRtbGl6ZWQgdmVyc2lvbiBhbmQgZGlmZiBh cmUgYXZhaWxhYmxlIGF0IHRvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnLg0KDQpUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0K DQoNCg== From nobody Wed Oct 28 00:08:13 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CAA83A1015; 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Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:08:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4941A7B7-7147-48C6-8A05-1D1572DFACA2@apple.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 09:07:55 +0200 Message-ID: To: Haoyu Song Cc: Tommy Pauly , Barak Gafni , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" , IPPM Chairs , "draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org" , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 07:08:12 -0000 Hi Haoyu, On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 8:45 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : [snip] > For now it looks good but it still doesn't solve the problem. [snip] Thanks, Haoyu. I suggest to post the current (pull request) version as a base for discussion in IETF 109. Unless there are objections I will post this version before the IETF 109 submission deadline. Cheers, Tal. On Mon, Oct 26, 2020 at 8:45 PM Haoyu Song wrote= : > > Hi Tal, > > Thanks for the update. For now it looks good but it still doesn't solve t= he problem. I think we should try to achieve consensus to progress the draf= t. i.e., if we decide to not include the optional explicit hop count field= , we need to document the implication and limitation of such a design choic= e in the main text. My 2 cents. > > Best, > Haoyu > > -----Original Message----- > From: Tal Mizrahi > Sent: Monday, October 26, 2020 1:29 AM > To: Tommy Pauly ; Barak Gafni ; Haoy= u Song > Cc: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; IPPM Chairs ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG (= ippm@ietf.org) > Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > Hi Tommy, Barak, Haoyu, > > I created a pull request that I believe resolves the issue based on the l= atest comments. > > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fgithu= b.com%2Finband-oam%2Fietf%2Fpull%2F200&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40fu= turewei.com%7C3a358549dc21473666f708d879893660%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55= 91fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637392977521276253%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA= wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DHlww= 2VflP060MV7RJBL1xd4iGJ0wx5v5LwcwA6xVjvo%3D&reserved=3D0 > > In the proposed version the Hop Count field is not included in the DEX he= ader, but the discussion about it is included in an appendix. > > Please let me know if this makes sense. > > Thanks, > Tal. > > On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 11:42 PM Tommy Pauly wrote: > > > > > > > > On Oct 14, 2020, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song wro= te: > > > > Hi Barak, > > > > That=E2=80=99s a possible solution. > > The nature of DEX makes the DEX data correlation a unique requirements. > > Now we already have the built-in support for flow correlation (using > > optional flow ID) and packet correlation (using optional sequence numbe= r). The last piece is data order correlation. TTL/Hop Limit, if exist, can = be used to server this purpose (we also need to realize, this is not ideal = because a missing TTL number from the export data can imply either a droppe= d export packet or a DEX-incapable hop. It=E2=80=99s not easy to tell). > > Previously I suggest to use an optional hop_count to support it just in= case such info can=E2=80=99t be acquired elsewhere. > > If we don=E2=80=99t want to have this, then we need either provide an a= lternative solution or claim we accept it in exchange of simplicity. > > In any case, we should include the discussion to show the tradeoffs in = the draft. > > > > > > Ultimately the draft should just define one method and not present two = approaches. The rationale can be mentioned, perhaps in an appendix. > > > > Thanks, > > Tommy > > > > > > Best, > > Haoyu > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Barak Gafni > > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:34:34 AM > > To: Haoyu Song ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > > ; Tommy Pauly > > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs > > ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org > > ; IETF IPPM WG > > (ippm@ietf.org) > > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > Hi Haoyu, > > Thanks, I think this is a good suggestion. Taking that into considerati= on, let's move forward with: > > 1. Acknowledge current design for DEX w/o additional "special" > > hop-count field 2. Discuss needs and potential implications related to > > hop-count as part of data draft, so one can use it for its > > applications > > > > Does it make sense? > > > > Thanks, > > Barak > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Haoyu Song > > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 10:29 AM > > To: Barak Gafni ; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > > ; Tommy Pauly > > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs > > ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; > > IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments > > > > > > Hi Barak, > > > > I don't understand what do you mean the issue is not in the scope of DE= X draft. > > The hop information is used to order the DEX data for the same user pac= ket along the path. > > To make it work, you need to consider how such information can be acqui= red in every possible application environment. > > It's fine we can't foresee everything, but for the known ones, we'd bet= ter have solutions ready, otherwise we might need expensive update in the f= uture. > > (Having said that, I'm okay if we acknowledge and decide to accept > > that in some case such information is missing) > > > > Best, > > Haoyu > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Barak Gafni > > Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2020 12:04 AM > > To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tommy Pauly > > ; Haoyu Song > > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs > > ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; > > IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > +1 > > My view is that if there is a need to discuss what a hop count is - the= scope is the data draft where it has been defined, rather than DEX. Would = you agree? > > > > Thanks, > > Barak > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > > Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2020 11:33 PM > > To: Tommy Pauly ; Haoyu Song > > > > Cc: Tal Mizrahi ; IPPM Chairs > > ; draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org; > > IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > External email: Use caution opening links or attachments > > > > > > Cc'ing IPPM WG. > > > > IMHO it makes sense to tackle the question of how IOAM applies to L2 ne= tworks as a separate topic. > > > > Cheers, Frank > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Tommy Pauly > > > Sent: Freitag, 2. Oktober 2020 20:35 > > > To: Haoyu Song > > > Cc: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tal Mizrahi > > > ; IPPM Chairs ; > > > draft-ietf- ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org > > > Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > > > If there are scenarios where the hop limit/TTL is not available, > > > could those not have a separate mechanism to define a hop limit? > > > This DEX alone could remain simple and without duplication for the > > > L3 case, but not preventing combining with another mechanism for L2? > > > > > > Tommy > > > > > > > On Oct 2, 2020, at 10:17 AM, Haoyu Song > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > =EF=BB=BFHi Frank and Tommy, > > > > > > > > It's also clear that "Hop_count" is not semantically identical to > > > > "Hop_lim" (or > > > TTL) as specified in IOAM data. The most critical question is: what > > > if Hop_lim is not available at all (e.g., in L2 networks)? Then how > > > can we get such information? We need to add explanations in the > > > draft how to handle such a possibility, and how to get and interpret = Hop_lim, if it exists. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Haoyu > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > > > > Sent: Friday, October 2, 2020 9:31 AM > > > > To: Tommy Pauly ; Tal Mizrahi > > > > > > > > Cc: IPPM Chairs ; > > > > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org > > > > Subject: RE: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > > > > > > Hi Tommy, > > > > > > > > as we all agree, one guiding principle in standards is to avoid > > > > reimplementation > > > of an already available functionality. This principle helps > > > implementors and avoid a proliferation of different options to > > > implement the same functionality. IMHO we're presented with such a ca= se here. > > > > > > > > DEX was originally designed to avoid recording/updating the IOAM > > > > related > > > metadata in the packet as the packet traverses the network, but > > > instead have every transited node create and immediately export the O= AM data of interest. > > > Let's call this "Vanilla DEX". > > > > > > > > If we add "hop count recording", we create a "Hybrid DEX" mode, in > > > > that we > > > record and update a hop-count field in the packet *and* have every > > > transited node create and immediately export the OAM data of interest= . > > > The hop-count recording in this "Hybrid DEX" mode would just be a > > > re-implementation of a capability which we already have if we > > > combine "Vanilla DEX" with "IOAM tracing". > > > draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-01 kind of states this in section > > > 7 > > > - but IMHO we should make it really clear that we're talking about a = re- implementation of an already existing capability. > > > > > > > > Maybe this context could help us to come to a conclusion on this to= pic. > > > > > > > > Cheers, Frank > > > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: Tommy Pauly > > > >> Sent: Mittwoch, 16. September 2020 19:48 > > > >> To: Tal Mizrahi > > > >> Cc: IPPM Chairs ; > > > >> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct- export@ietf.org > > > >> Subject: Re: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > >> > > > >> Hi Tal, > > > >> > > > >> We may need to take some time on our upcoming IETF 109 agenda to > > > >> dedicate to resolving this if we can=E2=80=99t get it done before = then. > > > >> > > > >> To get a sense from the authors, for either option, is there > > > >> someone who can=E2=80=99t live with that outcome? I can see the tr= ade > > > >> offs either way, and I do think we should prescribe only one > > > >> method. The text lists the pros and cons=E2=80=94how do they weigh= against one another? > > > >> > > > >> Tommy > > > >> > > > >>> On Sep 15, 2020, at 11:21 PM, Tal Mizrahi > > > >>> > > > >> wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>> =EF=BB=BFDear Chairs, > > > >>> > > > >>> There were no responses to this email, probably since everyone > > > >>> who had comments about this open issue has already commented in t= he past. > > > >>> At this point we would like your help with proceeding to resolve = this issue. > > > >>> > > > >>> Thanks, > > > >>> Tal. > > > >>> > > > >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > > > >>> From: Tal Mizrahi > > > >>> Date: Sun, Aug 30, 2020 at 8:52 AM > > > >>> Subject: IOAM Direct Exporting Open Issue > > > >>> To: IETF IPPM WG > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Hi, > > > >>> > > > >>> There is an open issue in the DEX draft about whether to include > > > >>> an explicit Hop Count field in the DEX header, or to rely on the > > > >>> existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field. > > > >>> > > > >>> Section 7 of the draft presents the pros and cons of each of > > > >>> these alternatives. This issue has also been discussed on the > > > >>> mailing list a couple of times, and on the last few IPPM meetings= . > > > >>> > > > >>> We would like to encourage non-authors to express their opinion > > > >>> about which approach should be taken: (1) use an explicit Hop > > > >>> Count field, or (2) rely on the existing Hop_Lim/Node_ID data fie= ld. > > > >>> > > > >>> Cheers, > > > >>> Tal. > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> Here is a link to the draft: > > > >>> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F= % > > > >>> 2F > > > >>> da > > > >>> tatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export%2F > > > >>> &a > > > >>> mp > > > >>> > > > ;data=3D02%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C2f840fbff5b34808bb3f08 > > > d > > > >>> > > > 866f0c247%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C6373725315 > > > 361 > > > >>> > > > 39070&sdata=3DzOeIUtzXzqkyb5D9pdc1UgUP%2Bnpjc0aB0AHU0Df8Y1E%3D > > > & > > > >>> ;reserved=3D0 > > > >>> > > > >>> Section 7 of the draft, which presents the two alternatives is > > > >>> quoted here for convenience. > > > >>> > > > >>> Hop Limit / Hop Count: in order to help correlate and order t= he > > > >>> exported packets, it is possible to include a 1-octet Hop Cou= nt > > > >>> field in the DEX header (presumably by claiming some space fr= om > > > >>> the Flags field). Its value starts from 0 at the encapsulati= ng > > > >>> node and is incremented by each IOAM transit node that suppor= ts > > > >>> the DEX option. The Hop Count field value is also included i= n the > > > >>> exported packet. An alternative approach is to use the Hop_L= im/ > > > >>> Node_ID data field; if the IOAM-Trace-Type > > > >>> [I-D.ietf-ippm-ioam-data] has the Hop_Lim/Node_ID bit set, th= en > > > >>> exported packets include the Hop_Lim/Node_ID data field, whic= h > > > >>> contains the TTL/Hop Limit value from a lower layer protocol.= The > > > >>> main advantage of the Hop_Lim/Node_ID approach is that it pro= vides > > > >>> information about the current hop count without requiring eac= h > > > >>> transit node to modify the DEX option, thus simplifying the d= ata > > > >>> plane functionality of Direct Exporting. The main advantage = of > > > >>> the Hop Count approach is that it counts the number of IOAM- > > > >>> capable nodes without relying on the lower layer TTL, especia= lly > > > >>> when the lower layer cannot prvide the accurate TTL informati= on, > > > >>> e.g., Layer 2 Ethernet or hierarchical VPN. It also explicit= ly > > > >>> allows to detect a case where an IOAM-capable node fails to e= xport > > > >>> packets. In order to facilitate the Hop Count approach it is > > > >>> possible to use a flag to indicate an optional Hop Count fiel= d, > > > >>> which enables to control the tradeoff. On one hand it addres= ses > > > >>> the use cases that the Hop_Lim/Node_ID cannot cover, and on t= he > > > >>> other hand it does not require transit switches to update the > > > >>> option if it is not supported or disabled. Further discussio= n is > > > >>> required about the tradeoff between the two alternatives. > > > > From nobody Wed Oct 28 00:43:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D38CA3A1037; Wed, 28 Oct 2020 00:43:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.com header.b=eZRGgmWF; dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cisco.onmicrosoft.com header.b=tP8HtT8C Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com 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2020 17:35:46 +0000 From: Linda Dunbar To: "ippm@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Need your feedback on the proposed IP Layer Metrics to enable the IP networks to dynamically optimize the forwarding of 5G edge computing service without requiring any information from Applications themselves. Thread-Index: AdatUL/RRxjTiKkATgSNdorgo+PFkQ== Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:35:46 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: ietf.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;ietf.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-originating-ip: [2603:8081:1700:ab:f5e6:cf60:326:5d1f] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 506015ef-96ed-4775-c7fb-08d87b67e73c x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: SA0PR13MB4158: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: QzYBp62mqhh+gsu1QFagmy5BBA1qTokJj6mEEk/yIKeL0M/GdmQFhS1VFxTyknnbFL8Sm1JmGVRnorGrxSH/f6xBCMALVe9RCCQ41tYhc9lgWFa/EQzvu9nWM620Z7k4Xva5rtLCQLyQTRVCCI4L79m9pPCsT9B7kWmLMZHX1RjSY/FG8rY9RJW8ZbY4BcMsr6DZs8NTqUoJpWFoIVhPjSchy9FJvQCGeibvwv18RiKI9rgq6wNDLaDrNUrTBQctkU7Hst8CghJzQeJzO7Mf238Ir4hRkFiqPqR8+qj0t2rui2x27F6PsJg5rr2sKOD1AZTphdJN9zVCa9tqx0EV7848r6wqEGCRrnjcKfh+GxjbJni0t2NMNQ0OBtP/i8ik4LOq1fy+ol28BVucHkiURg== x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SN6PR13MB2334.namprd13.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(39850400004)(396003)(136003)(376002)(346002)(66556008)(66476007)(76116006)(64756008)(66446008)(33656002)(7696005)(6916009)(5660300002)(66946007)(71200400001)(8676002)(83380400001)(166002)(2906002)(316002)(55016002)(478600001)(8936002)(86362001)(186003)(6506007)(4743002)(9686003)(44832011)(966005)(52536014); DIR:OUT; SFP:1102; x-ms-exchange-antispam-messagedata: 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 x-ms-exchange-transport-forked: True Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_SN6PR13MB233453A3FEE5C3A23A870D9385170SN6PR13MB2334namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SN6PR13MB2334.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 506015ef-96ed-4775-c7fb-08d87b67e73c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 28 Oct 2020 17:35:46.2484 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: B/o/EFDf+W+0/6rf8amqjC+/06rc1MazeBpi1azOrQg8RAPxliGXTaiUjybR9WQQ5Qe1mVX5Y1H8eKpQ3Sbhcw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SA0PR13MB4158 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Need your feedback on the proposed IP Layer Metrics to enable the IP networks to dynamically optimize the forwarding of 5G edge computing service without requiring any information from Applications themselves. X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2020 17:35:51 -0000 --_000_SN6PR13MB233453A3FEE5C3A23A870D9385170SN6PR13MB2334namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IPPM experts: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-ippm-5g-edge-compute-ip-layer= -metrics/ describes the IP Layer metrics and methods to measure the Edge Co= mputing Servers running status and environment for IP networks to select th= e optimal Edge Computing server location in 5G Edge Computing (EC) environm= ent. This document also describes the method of incorporating those measure= ments with IP routing cost to come up with a more optimal criteria in selec= ting ANYCAST locations. There are many network techniques and protocols to optimize forwarding and = ensuring QoS for applications, such as DSCP/DiffServ, Traffic Engineered (T= E) solutions, Segment Routing, etc. But the reality is that most applicatio= n servers don't expose their internal logics to network operators. Their co= mmunications are generally encrypted. Most of them do not even respond to P= ING or ICMP messages initiated by routers or network gears. The proposed IP Layer Metrics and algorithms enable the IP networks to dyn= amically optimize the forwarding of 5G edge computing service without any k= nowledge above IP layer. In a way, the proposed IP Layer Metrics and algorithm enable the IP network= s to be more aware of Application behavior without dependency on getting i= nformation from Applications themselves. In a nutshell, the draft proposed an algorithm to compute the Load Measurem= ent Index at each location of the App Server, the method to derive Capacity= Index of each location, and the Site preference. The draft also proposes a= n algorithm for ingress node to choose the ANYCAST location based on Load M= easurement, The Capacity Index, the site preference Index and network delay= . We greatly appreciate your feedback on those proposed IP Layer metrics. A little bit background: In 5G Edge Computing environment, one Application can have multiple Applica= tion Servers hosted in different Edge Computing data centers that are close= in proximity. Those Edge Computing (mini) data centers are usually very cl= ose to, or co-located with, 5G base stations, with the goal to minimize lat= ency and optimize the user experience. Increasingly, Anycast is used by various application providers and CDNs bec= ause it is possible to dynamically load balance across multiple locations o= f the same address based on network conditions. Application Server locatio= n selection using Anycast address leverages the proximity information prese= nt in the network (routing) layer and eliminates the single point of failur= e and bottleneck at the DNS resolvers and application layer load balancers.= Another benefit of using ANYCAST address is removing the dependency on UEs= that use their cached IP addresses instead of querying DNS when they move = to a new location. But selection of an ANYCAST location purely based on the network condition = can encounter issue of the location selected by IP routing information bein= g overutilized while there are available underutilized locations close by. That is why we propose those IP Layer metrics to better optimize the forwar= ding for 5G Edge Computing services. Thank you very much Linda Dunbar --_000_SN6PR13MB233453A3FEE5C3A23A870D9385170SN6PR13MB2334namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IPPM experts:

 

 

https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-dunbar-ippm-5g-edge-compute-ip-layer-metrics/<= /a> describes the IP Layer metrics and methods to measure the Edge Computing S= ervers running status and environment for IP networks to select the optimal= Edge Computing server location in 5G Edge Computing (EC) environment. This= document also describes the method of incorporating those measurements with IP routing cost to come up with a= more optimal criteria in selecting ANYCAST locations.

 

There are many network techniques and protocols to optimize forwardin= g and ensuring QoS for applications, such as DSCP/DiffServ, Traffic Enginee= red (TE) solutions, Segment Routing, etc. But the reality is that most application servers don’t expose t= heir internal logics to network operators. Their communications are general= ly encrypted. Most of them do not even respond to PING or ICMP messages ini= tiated by routers or network gears.

The proposed IP Layer Metrics and algorithms enable the  IP netw= orks to dynamically optimize the forwarding of 5G edge computing service wi= thout any knowledge above IP layer.

In a way, the proposed IP Layer Metrics and algorithm enable the IP n= etworks  to be more aware of Application behavior without dependency o= n getting information from  Applications themselves.  

 

In a nutshell, the draft proposed an algorithm to compute the Load Me= asurement Index at each location of the App Server, the method to derive Ca= pacity Index of each location, and the Site preference. The draft also proposes an algorithm for ingress node to = choose the ANYCAST location based on Load Measurement, The Capacity Index, = the site preference Index and network delay.

 

We greatly appreciate your feedback on those proposed IP Layer metric= s.

 

A little bit background:

In 5G Edge Computing environment, one Application can have multiple Applica= tion Servers hosted in different Edge Computing data centers that are close= in proximity. Those Edge Computing (mini) data centers are usually very cl= ose to, or co-located with, 5G base stations, with the goal to minimize latency and optimize the user experien= ce.

 

Increasingly, Anycast is used by various application providers and CDNs bec= ause it is possible to dynamically load balance across multiple locations o= f the same address based on network conditions.  Application Server lo= cation selection using Anycast address leverages the proximity information present in the network (routing) layer= and eliminates the single point of failure and bottleneck at the DNS resol= vers and application layer load balancers. Another benefit of using ANYCAST= address is removing the dependency on UEs that use their cached IP addresses instead of querying DNS when the= y move to a new location.

 

But selection of an ANYCA= ST location purely based on the network condition can encounter issue of th= e location selected by IP routing information being overutilized while ther= e are available underutilized locations close by. 

That is why we propose th= ose IP Layer metrics to better optimize the forwarding for 5G Edge Computin= g services.

 

Thank you very much

Linda Dunbar

--_000_SN6PR13MB233453A3FEE5C3A23A870D9385170SN6PR13MB2334namp_-- From yanghongwei@chinamobile.com Thu Oct 29 19:32:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFDC83A0779 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:32:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.887 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.887 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FONT_INVIS_MSGID=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_KAM_HTML_FONT_INVALID=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2LUEsvdcWdT2 for ; Thu, 29 Oct 2020 19:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from cmccmta3.chinamobile.com (cmccmta3.chinamobile.com [221.176.66.81]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 586913A0408 for ; 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable = =0A
Hi Yali,
I think this is a usef= ul solution. Hop-by-hop network measurement is very necessary in many scen= arios. 
I have a fe= w questions.
1. Why is i= t combined with OAM packets and how to deal with devices that do not suppo= rt OAM?
2. Latency, jitt= er, and packet loss are mentioned in the document, but link bandwidth util= ization is also an important indicator. Can it also be implemented in this solutio= n?

Thanks and= Best Regards,
Hongwei.

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Hongwei Yang

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<= div>Date: 2020-10-27 21:48
To: ippm
Subject: [ippm= ] New Version for draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-01
Hello WG,
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Draft about extensio= ns to STAMP enable hop-by-hop OAM data measurement and collection has been= updated, which was presented in IETF108. Questions and comments are welco= me.
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Because the performance of intermedia= te nodes and links that STAMP test packets traverse are invisible, to solv= e this problem, this draft extents optional TLVs to STAMP and inserts IOAM= Trace option data in the test packets or dispatches test packets to the O= AM process at OAM Endpoint.
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In this case,= the STAMP instance does not need to be configured at every intermediate n= ode to measure the performance of intermediate nodes, which decreases the = complexity of OAM in large-scale networks.
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=0AWhat do you think?
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Best regards,
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Yali
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-----Ori= ginal Message-----
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From: internet-drafts@ietf.org [mailto:int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org]
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Sent: Tuesday, October 27, 2020 9:03 P= M
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To: wangyali <wangyali11@huawei.com>; Tianran Zhou &l= t;zhoutianran@huawei.com>
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Subject: New Version Notificatio= n for draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-01.txt
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 =0A
 
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A new version of I-D, draft-wang-ippm-stamp-h= bh-extensions-01.txt
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has been successfully submitted by Yali = Wang and posted to the IETF repository.
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N= ame:           draft-wan= g-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions
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Revision:    =    01
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Title:      &nb= sp;   Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol Extensions for = Hop-by-Hop OAM Data Collection
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Document date:  2020-10-2= 7
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Group:         = ; Individual Submission
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Pages:     &= nbsp;    10
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URL:     =        https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft= -wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-01.txt
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Status:  &nb= sp;      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-w= ang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions/
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Htmlized:   &nb= sp;   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-wang-ippm-stam= p-hbh-extensions
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Htmlized:      = ; https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-01=0A
Diff:          = https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-wang-ippm-stamp-hbh-extensions-= 01
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Abstract:
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   Th= is document defines optional TLVs which are carried in Simple Two-
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   way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) test packets = to enhance the
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   STAMP base functions.  Such = extensions to STAMP enable OAM data
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   measurement = and collection at every node and link along a STAMP test
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&nbs= p;  packet's delivery path.
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 =0A
 
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Pl= ease note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission= until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.=0A
 
=0A
The IETF Secretariat
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 =0A
 
=0A
_____________________________________________= __
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ippm mailing list
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ippm@ietf.org
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= https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
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520c3b2c35f7aa9df84c237dd7e754a8 X-V-R-CD: ecb453fb39c9163a3ce1551c09321d32 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 9173f910-c197-4f02-9323-90497990ce33 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-30_08:2020-10-30, 2020-10-30 signatures=0 Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [17.232.195.141]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPSA id <0QJ10105N2A0KH00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:34:53 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8EED8712-C3EE-4C96-93DA-6E4BA8D19019" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) Message-id: Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:34:47 -0700 Cc: IPPM Chairs , spring-chairs@ietf.org To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-30_08:2020-10-30, 2020-10-30 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm and draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:35:00 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8EED8712-C3EE-4C96-93DA-6E4BA8D19019 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello IPPM, For the past few meetings, we=E2=80=99ve had updates on the work in the = SPRING WG that was using STAMP and TWAMP. Since those documents ended up = making extensions to the base protocols, the chairs of SPRING and IPPM = decided that it would be best to split the documents and track the IPPM = extension work in the IPPM WG. As such, we are starting a Working Group call for adoption for = draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm and draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm. The documents are here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm-00 = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm-00 = The related SPRING documents are here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-stamp-srpm-03 = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm-11 = Please provide your feedback on these documents, and state whether or = not you believe the IPPM WG should adopt this work by replying to this = email. Please provide your feedback by the start of the IETF 109 meeting = week, on Monday, November 16. Best, Tommy & Ian= --Apple-Mail=_8EED8712-C3EE-4C96-93DA-6E4BA8D19019 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
Hello IPPM,

For the past few meetings, we=E2=80=99ve had updates on the = work in the SPRING WG that was using STAMP and TWAMP. Since those = documents ended up making extensions to the base protocols, the chairs = of SPRING and IPPM decided that it would be best to split the documents = and track the IPPM extension work in the IPPM WG.
As such, we are starting a Working = Group call for adoption for draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm and = draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm.

The documents are here:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm-00=
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm-00=

The related SPRING documents are here:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-stamp-srpm-03
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gandhi-spring-twamp-srpm-11


Tommy & Ian
= --Apple-Mail=_8EED8712-C3EE-4C96-93DA-6E4BA8D19019-- From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:35:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 25E113A1130; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:35:16 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160408291614.16998.10891187841139186185@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:35:16 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] The IPPM WG has placed draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:35:16 -0000 The IPPM WG has placed draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Tommy Pauly) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gandhi-ippm-stamp-srpm/ From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:35:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 436FC3A1155; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:35:23 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160408292326.787.14360859642779238607@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:35:23 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] The IPPM WG has placed draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:35:29 -0000 The IPPM WG has placed draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Tommy Pauly) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-gandhi-ippm-twamp-srpm/ From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:40:57 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3F5C23A11C7; 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Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:40:41 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_6C30DEF1-032C-4D2A-AEAD-C4A036FB6ED2" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) Message-id: <43DADFB5-FE8A-49A1-BF39-1ECC10594211@apple.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:40:34 -0700 Cc: IPPM Chairs To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-30_08:2020-10-30, 2020-10-30 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:40:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_6C30DEF1-032C-4D2A-AEAD-C4A036FB6ED2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello IPPM, This email starts a Working Group call for adoption for = draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang. Now that our IOAM documents are mature and = progressing, the chairs believe it is time to consider the YANG work = officially. The document can be found here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang-08 = Please provide your feedback on these document, and state whether or not = you believe the IPPM WG should adopt this work by replying to this = email. Please provide your feedback by the start of the IETF 109 meeting = week, on Monday, November 16. Best, Tommy & Ian= --Apple-Mail=_6C30DEF1-032C-4D2A-AEAD-C4A036FB6ED2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello IPPM,

This email = starts a Working Group call for adoption = for draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang. Now that our IOAM documents are = mature and progressing, the chairs believe it is time to consider the = YANG work officially.

The document can be = found here:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang-08
Please provide your feedback on these = document, and state whether or not you believe the IPPM WG should adopt = this work by replying to this email. Please provide your feedback by the = start of the IETF 109 meeting week, on Monday, = November 16.

Best,
Tommy = & Ian
= --Apple-Mail=_6C30DEF1-032C-4D2A-AEAD-C4A036FB6ED2-- From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:41:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87F733A1183; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:41:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160408327454.621.7101098958282975584@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:41:14 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] The IPPM WG has placed draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:41:15 -0000 The IPPM WG has placed draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Tommy Pauly) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang/ From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:43:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E3CD13A119B; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:43:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160408343091.6839.3345509770299322442@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:43:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] The IPPM WG has placed draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:43:51 -0000 The IPPM WG has placed draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Tommy Pauly) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:44:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 080DB3A1111; 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Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:43:37 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_7B279DEF-6C64-49B8-8215-2CF4869A4DBF" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) Message-id: <63A1B18E-A7F6-4F91-8503-F1FCE3CF945A@apple.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:43:30 -0700 Cc: IPPM Chairs To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-30_08:2020-10-30, 2020-10-30 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:44:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_7B279DEF-6C64-49B8-8215-2CF4869A4DBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello IPPM, This email starts a Working Group call for adoption for = draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring. This document has been = presented several times and discussed within the working group. The document can be found here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-03 = Please provide your feedback on these document, and state whether or not = you believe the IPPM WG should adopt this work by replying to this = email. Please provide your feedback by the start of the IETF 109 meeting = week, on Monday, November 16. Best, Tommy & Ian= --Apple-Mail=_7B279DEF-6C64-49B8-8215-2CF4869A4DBF Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello IPPM,

This email = starts a Working Group call for adoption = for draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monitoring. This document has been = presented several times and discussed within the working group.

The document can be found here:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-geib-ippm-connectivity-monito= ring-03

Please provide your feedback on = these document, and state whether or not you believe the IPPM WG should = adopt this work by replying to this email. Please provide your feedback = by the start of the IETF 109 meeting week, on Monday, November 16.

Best,
Tommy & Ian
= --Apple-Mail=_7B279DEF-6C64-49B8-8215-2CF4869A4DBF-- From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:46:17 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E728F3A1111; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JMwWDW1nCjmV; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [17.171.2.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBA9E3A110F; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 09UIY4vN018087; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:12 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=from : content-type : mime-version : subject : message-id : date : cc : to; s=20180706; bh=JpUT2ohnJlBRsU8MrZMkcDDC1ZGncgG3+y3rh7QCKo4=; b=YAG87T9A3qCO5bjtlLSaL53AbsXcfGHGYhlcDuhGQoQ9ycOw5iV/SxpVH+cH0E+V6KZw mnoD5nFggfjZFaox1192z1oqKK+tPQoNhG6LAixTXnfvG2N+ilSMaG7e0zkhf9eGWBNY X4xI9lGz1Ufn/kvIwTUt+vLIYKvmqGljUb/5KY/5uO5jeNYS2Y/VU00qPs1eU7WbVE8Q a8xP9KAGKA6XdosYedBEgKHAu3hQdwVjL58UW/Sb1vO5qq2/Q62wlq7xW2+xDCKAB5jw BPfydIwr19yJdaSGbInd8mqkMwwKlj6FlhWPf16ekbgajIvY48qNXLZngLcYosYPYYII EQ== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.149]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com with ESMTP id 34cgxxpur7-3 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:12 -0700 Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.15]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPS id <0QJ100GLJ2T0R7K0@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp01.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) id <0QJ100X002OP6J00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: de279c0840622e930446fe69a11c94de X-Va-E-CD: df4f3c64d0b35b83241e85d2af36668c X-Va-R-CD: 2c1e8900ee64f3b3b4d1e47e05f111b8 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: df3bd42c-ef17-4dd1-b5ec-7a772dee30b3 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: de279c0840622e930446fe69a11c94de X-V-E-CD: df4f3c64d0b35b83241e85d2af36668c X-V-R-CD: 2c1e8900ee64f3b3b4d1e47e05f111b8 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 37b42cb1-59d6-439e-a7e1-a1d86e802665 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-30_08:2020-10-30, 2020-10-30 signatures=0 Received: from localhost.localdomain (unknown [17.232.195.141]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.6.20200729 64bit (built Jul 29 2020)) with ESMTPSA id <0QJ1010MZ2SVKH00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F0E27835-41F6-49CD-99EC-898ADA2B7D91" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.0.3.2.26\)) Message-id: <5E408E0E-862E-480B-88FD-890098340EBC@apple.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:05 -0700 Cc: IPPM Chairs To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.0.3.2.26) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-30_08:2020-10-30, 2020-10-30 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:46:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F0E27835-41F6-49CD-99EC-898ADA2B7D91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello IPPM, This email starts a Working Group call for adoption for = draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state. This document has been presented = several times and discussed within the working group in the context of = our overall IOAM work. The document can be found here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-07 = Please provide your feedback on these document, and state whether or not = you believe the IPPM WG should adopt this work by replying to this = email. Please provide your feedback by the start of the IETF 109 meeting = week, on Monday, November 16. Best, Tommy & Ian= --Apple-Mail=_F0E27835-41F6-49CD-99EC-898ADA2B7D91 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello IPPM,

This email = starts a Working Group call for adoption = for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state. This document has been = presented several times and discussed within the working group in the = context of our overall IOAM work.

The = document can be found here:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-07<= /a>

Please provide your feedback on these = document, and state whether or not you believe the IPPM WG should adopt = this work by replying to this email. Please provide your feedback by the = start of the IETF 109 meeting week, on Monday, = November 16.

Best,
Tommy = & Ian
= --Apple-Mail=_F0E27835-41F6-49CD-99EC-898ADA2B7D91-- From nobody Fri Oct 30 11:46:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CE5733A1120; Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.21.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <160408358183.4264.6181133128861808675@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 11:46:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] The IPPM WG has placed draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued" X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 18:46:29 -0000 The IPPM WG has placed draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state in state Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Tommy Pauly) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state/ From nobody Fri Oct 30 15:24:38 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 721C33A128A; 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Fri, 30 Oct 2020 15:24:30 -0700 (PDT) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-C15517A2-B10E-40EA-BF75-4132B59FC245 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: Tommy Pauly MIME-version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 15:24:27 -0700 Message-id: <93486F48-545A-46DA-B668-26463F3E335B@apple.com> References: Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org, draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org, IPPM Chairs , Martin Duke , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" In-reply-to: To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (18A373) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.312, 18.0.737 definitions=2020-10-30_12:2020-10-30, 2020-10-30 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2020 22:24:37 -0000 --Apple-Mail-C15517A2-B10E-40EA-BF75-4132B59FC245 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Frank, authors, I=E2=80=99d strongly suggest going down the same route we did for the IOAM d= ata draft, which was to have an editor model with all authors listed out sep= arately. That allows us to have a document that both recognizes input and me= ets the submission guidelines.=20 Best, Tommy > On Oct 12, 2020, at 9:51 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BF > Hi Tommy, > =20 > Thanks much. The too long author list is a common =E2=80=93 and not easily= addressable issue as we all know. > =20 > Cheers, Frank > =20 > From: Tommy Pauly =20 > Sent: Montag, 12. Oktober 2020 18:17 > To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-i= oam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org; IPPM Chairs ; Martin Duk= e ; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > Subject: Re: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document > =20 > Hi Frank, > =20 > I=E2=80=99ve provided some editorial suggestions here: > =20 > https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/198 > =20 > Also, we should clean up the long author list on this document: > =20 > https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/issues/197 > =20 > Best, > Tommy >=20 >=20 > On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) wrote: > =20 > Hi Tommy, >=20 > Thanks for your feedback. Here's the git link: > https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/drafts/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam= -ipv6-options.xml > Text version is here: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/draft= s/versions/03/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03.txt >=20 > Looking forward to your comments. >=20 > Thanks, Frank >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Tommy Pauly > Sent: Dienstag, 29. September 2020 20:19 > To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; draft-ioametal-ippm-6man- > ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org; IPPM Chairs ; Martin > Duke ; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > > Subject: Re: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document >=20 > Hi Frank, all, >=20 > Thanks for providing this update. The combined document makes sense and, I= > believe, will provide a more useful resource to implementors. >=20 > Looking through the new text, I had a few textual/editorial nits. Is this a= vailable > on a GitHub for comments or a PR? >=20 > Thanks, > Tommy >=20 >=20 > On Sep 18, 2020, at 1:56 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > wrote: >=20 >=20 > =EF=BB=BFHi Tommy, IPPM WG, >=20 > we just posted an updated draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 which merge= s > draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment into draft-ietf-ippm-ioam- > ipv6-options plus it reflects the WG discussion of the last IPPM meeting. >=20 >=20 > The updates to draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 are >=20 > * implement the guidance from the WG chairs: Merge in draft-ioametal-ippm-= > 6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment "as is", i.e. only editorial changes were made (= e.g. > resolve references which would have been circular). >=20 > * implement the result of discussion in the last WG meeting: Removed the > paragraph that started with " In order for IOAM to work in IPv6 networks..= " > which included deployment considerations. >=20 >=20 > Moving forward, we'll need to further evolve the deployment section (now > section 4). >=20 > There were already comments raised in the IOAM DT wrt/ what is now section= > 4.4.1 by Haoyu. I asked Haoyu to take those to the IPPM list. >=20 >=20 > Cheers, Frank >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Tommy Pauly > Sent: Freitag, 14. August 2020 23:12 > To: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; > draft-ioametal-ippm-6man- ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org > Cc: IPPM Chairs ; Martin Duke > > Subject: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document >=20 > Hi IOAM IPv6 authors, >=20 > At IETF 108, we discussed draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options and > draft-ioametal- ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment, and how to progress > with the deployment considerations. Since the hums showed no strong > opinions one way or the other in the WG, Ian and I have discussed and > would prefer to see the deployment considerations merged into the existing= > and adopted IPv6 options document. >=20 > Both documents are short, and readers will benefit from any > discussion of deployment being available in the same document that > defines the extension header. >=20 > Please post an update for draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options with this > content added when you have a chance! >=20 > Thanks, > Tommy > =20 --Apple-Mail-C15517A2-B10E-40EA-BF75-4132B59FC245 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Frank, authors,


=EF=BB=BF=

Hi Tommy,

 

Thanks much. The too long author list is a common =E2= =80=93 and not easily addressable issue as we all know.

 

Cheers, Frank

 

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com> Sent: Montag, 12. Oktober 2020 18:17
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Cc: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; draft-ioametal-ippm-6= man-ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>;= Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) &= lt;ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM documen= t

 

Hi Frank,

 

I=E2=80=99ve provided some editorial suggestions here= :

 

 

Also, we should clean up the long author list on this= document:

 

 

Best,

Tommy



On Sep 29, 2020, at 11:24 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrock= ne) <fbrockne@cisco.com> wro= te:

 

Hi Tommy,

Thanks for your feedback. Here's the git link:
https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/d= rafts/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options.xml
Text version is here: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/blob/master/drafts/versions/03/draft-ietf= -ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03.txt

Looking forward to your comments.

Thanks, Frank


-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Dienstag, 29. September 2020 20:19
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbr= ockne@cisco.com>
Cc: draft-ietf= -ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org; draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-
ioam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.o= rg; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@= ietf.org>; Martin
Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com<= /a>>; IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document

Hi Frank, all,

Thanks for providing this update. The combined document makes sense and, I believe, will provide a more useful resource to implementors.

Looking through the new text, I had a few textual/editorial nits. Is this av= ailable
on a GitHub for comments or a PR?

Thanks,
Tommy


On Sep 18, 2020, at 1:56 AM, Frank Brockners (fbrockn= e)

<fbrockne@ci= sco.com> wrote:


=EF=BB=BFHi Tommy, IPPM WG,

we just posted an updated draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 which merges<= o:p>

draft-ioametal-ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment into dr= aft-ietf-ippm-ioam-
ipv6-options plus it reflects the WG discussion of the last IPPM meeting.


The updates to draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-03 are

* implement the guidance from the WG chairs: Merge in draft-ioametal-ippm-

6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment "as is", i.e. only editoria= l changes were made (e.g.
resolve references which would have been circular).

* implement the result of discussion in the last WG m= eeting: Removed the

paragraph that started with " In order for IOAM to wo= rk in IPv6 networks.."
which included deployment considerations.


Moving forward, we'll need to further evolve the deployment section (now

section 4).

There were already comments raised in the IOAM DT wrt= / what is now section

4.4.1 by Haoyu. I asked  Haoyu to take those to t= he IPPM list.


Cheers, Frank


-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Freitag, 14. August 2020 23:12
To: draft-ietf= -ippm-ioam-ipv6-options@ietf.org;
draft-ioametal-ippm-6man- i= oam-ipv6-deployment@ietf.org
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf= .org>; Martin Duke
<martin.h.duke@gmail.com&g= t;
Subject: Merging deployment considerations into IPv6 IOAM document

Hi IOAM IPv6 authors,

At IETF 108, we discussed draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options and
draft-ioametal- ippm-6man-ioam-ipv6-deployment, and how to progress
with the deployment considerations. Since the hums showed no strong
opinions one way or the other in the WG, Ian and I have discussed and
would prefer to see the deployment considerations merged into the existing

and adopted IPv6 options document.

Both documents are short, and readers will benefit fr= om any
discussion of deployment being available in the same document that
defines the extension header.

Please post an update for draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options with this
content added when you have a chance!

Thanks,
Tommy

 

= --Apple-Mail-C15517A2-B10E-40EA-BF75-4132B59FC245-- From nobody Sat Oct 31 00:19:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D93E53A0C1F; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 00:19:34 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9ExRICTN4jyo; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 00:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3E0E03A0B93; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 00:19:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml746-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 1147DBC640AE91F6DB12; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 07:19:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from nkgeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.153) by lhreml746-chm.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.196) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 07:19:28 +0000 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.157) by nkgeml706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.98.57.153) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.1913.5; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 15:19:26 +0800 Received: from nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) by nkgeml707-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.98.57.157]) with mapi id 15.01.1913.007; Sat, 31 Oct 2020 15:19:26 +0800 From: Tianran Zhou To: Tommy Pauly , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" CC: IPPM Chairs , "draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang.authors@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang Thread-Index: AQHWruxHXkttMybmSkWN4dSd7Dk7lamxTa1g Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 07:19:26 +0000 Message-ID: <242b8e82f3bf4d348c9f2115b5983b93@huawei.com> References: <43DADFB5-FE8A-49A1-BF39-1ECC10594211@apple.com> In-Reply-To: <43DADFB5-FE8A-49A1-BF39-1ECC10594211@apple.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.108.243.128] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_242b8e82f3bf4d348c9f2115b5983b93huaweicom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Oct 2020 07:19:35 -0000 --_000_242b8e82f3bf4d348c9f2115b5983b93huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I support the adoption as the coauthor. Cheers, Tianran From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2020 2:41 AM To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) Cc: IPPM Chairs Subject: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang Hello IPPM, This email starts a Working Group call for adoption for draft-zhou-ippm-ioa= m-yang. Now that our IOAM documents are mature and progressing, the chairs = believe it is time to consider the YANG work officially. The document can be found here: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang-08 Please provide your feedback on these document, and state whether or not yo= u believe the IPPM WG should adopt this work by replying to this email. Ple= ase provide your feedback by the start of the IETF 109 meeting week, on Mon= day, November 16. Best, Tommy & Ian --_000_242b8e82f3bf4d348c9f2115b5983b93huaweicom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

I support the adoption as the coautho= r.

 

Cheers,

Tianran

 

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf= .org] On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
Sent: Saturday, October 31, 2020 2:41 AM
To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Call for adoption: draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang

 

Hello IPPM,


This email starts a Working Group call for adoption for draft-zhou-ipp= m-ioam-yang. Now that our IOAM documents are mature and progressing, the ch= airs believe it is time to consider the YANG work officially.

The document can be found here:

https:= //tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhou-ippm-ioam-yang-08

Please provide your feedback on these document, and state whether or not yo= u believe the IPPM WG should adopt this work by replying to this email. Ple= ase provide your feedback by the start of the IETF 109 meeting week, o= n Monday, November 16.

Best,
Tommy & Ian

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