From nobody Thu Jul 1 05:12:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90B203A0AE1; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:12:42 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.33.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162514156253.10687.5399643651363473344@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 05:12:42 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 12:12:43 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : In-situ OAM Direct Exporting Authors : Haoyu Song Barak Gafni Tianran Zhou Zhenbin Li Frank Brockners Shwetha Bhandari Ramesh Sivakolundu Tal Mizrahi Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2021-07-01 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces a new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported or locally aggregated without being pushed into in-flight data packets. The exporting method and format are outside the scope of this document. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu Jul 1 07:03:08 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDF933A0CA4; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:54:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HDom9JN6lnb5; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x435.google.com (mail-wr1-x435.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::435]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 56B9C3A0CA8; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 05:54:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x435.google.com with SMTP id u8so8075124wrq.8; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 05:54:46 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=0ov/y4FAie7GlFtHztRBMBt7Vk6Q7M0/xdwXWP8I13Q=; b=BPC5tRdYLr5/3hHFWkNhLt+LkZAfGEvhwfjNTNtKZZyTnVE3Mq1yNIsZE0pr13KaLH 81iQo9O8Uvhl+B5/8zQEkucpfyfTvKjCMYG2RN7UvPd7RL1Mzf5pjSf4P3YyMCNCzTCB c3aSxg3FylwR0C4qGxnrepEhtxmzsOntSRMAXUFjirvwfyMJrbUGBhsJM9K/vuXCtsLB UnP7XdmLcVJkoBBWSKmPZxVvksZHykvbGzlPY1W/uyEJL0vXhvNh7RhkhoAbNLhlBYg5 HCacrvsOdsLzCfexPdoyTOPYSn8043MQjzCFWjAFLTxmxhyKoA1CBf9Pr4h2R6QcIMKI e4sA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=0ov/y4FAie7GlFtHztRBMBt7Vk6Q7M0/xdwXWP8I13Q=; b=F81sxl77j2usF/GDToCkP6SjY91cY5sjhDEo3Y6OHb7uWtj5laUUvqsMGuRbCT0chS NNfAo5+mCYhJO0ocYJmUJqtwVkwkbeCG+eEX+8whVqkM1hHGB8yev+I8T8tVrD+EdtUx +1cw1DehBINxhGBfKoLpQx/ZXVP/kBbPqcUyGaZfo822gdR8SxQg8kjwLVZmz4CRztmG jNG5NUi/+2yMuWCoLwDF455uxqwk9u3Q2kQFYh5UFhOPXsrvXWsBX1HdLf8JT4kNbpz7 WK76YgRiY9sOsAyEcS2q86DkTU3vOwjNGlW5l4yI5NbsYTIVX3oJ7rBmDsAwNZ0+Sbti BNAQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532nzURNgLLEbI/1YRcotYzAQWLcErFJnbsEigTnZEzsz75Z5e3K BCEspKmn8fD5RbEgt0j2PiD499/j+6GGERmZl38wNuBW/uA= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyzkn/OoFxWn8cLuMKD+r3AYWWbMryVPtvNM/9ufDeRluV2C0N6p210Z1hNSCSRbhsqofNhisqzDTVrS67h/SA= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:6e81:: with SMTP id k1mr45703767wrz.144.1625144083637; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 05:54:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162514156275.10687.5210311195217579136@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <162514156275.10687.5210311195217579136@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 15:54:30 +0300 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs , Martin Duke , Mirja Kuehlewind Cc: Barak Gafni , Frank Brockners , Haoyu Song , Ramesh Sivakolundu , Shwetha Bhandari , Tianran Zhou , Zhenbin Li Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 07:03:07 -0700 Subject: [ippm] DEX Draft Updated X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 12:54:51 -0000 Hi, The draft was significantly revised (see links below) following the security-related feedback from the last IETF meeting, and based on further discussion that were held at the IOAM design team meetings. Thanks again, Martin and Mirja, for your feedback. The main changes compared to the previous version: - Two sections were added, "DEX Packet Selection", and "Responding to the DEX Trigger". These two sections are specifically intended to address Martin's feedback regarding amplification attacks. - New requirements were added to the security consideration section in response to the comments in the last IETF meeting: - Selective DEX at IOAM encapsulating nodes - in response to Martin's comments. and - Rate limiting at IOAM transit nodes - in response to Martin's comments. - Avoid pushing the DEX option onto exported packets - in response to Martin's comments. - Only export to trusted nodes - in response to Mirja's comments. Please let us know if there are further comments, and specifically regarding the security aspects of the draft. Cheers, Tal. On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 3:12 PM wrote: > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt > has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export > Revision: 04 > Title: In-situ OAM Direct Exporting > Document date: 2021-07-01 > Group: ippm > Pages: 12 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04 > > Abstract: > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used > for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. > Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data > packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces a > new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is > used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported or locally > aggregated without being pushed into in-flight data packets. The > exporting method and format are outside the scope of this document. > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > From nobody Thu Jul 1 09:48:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C052D3A0AAD for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:48:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.295 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.295 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.198, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6mESByMFq_hr for ; 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Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:48:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_0CFEC085-6CBF-4F51-8146-06F6B987C539" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3681.0.2.1.2\)) Message-id: <956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com> Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:48:28 -0700 To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3681.0.2.1.2) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-01_09:2021-07-01, 2021-07-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 16:48:39 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_0CFEC085-6CBF-4F51-8146-06F6B987C539 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello IPPM, Back in November, we had a call for adoption for = draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we = asked for revised drafts. We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to = re-start the adoption call to get people=E2=80=99s input on the current = version. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 = = Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you = support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15. Best, Tommy & Ian= --Apple-Mail=_0CFEC085-6CBF-4F51-8146-06F6B987C539 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello= IPPM,

Back in = November, we had a call for adoption = for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, = and we asked for revised drafts.

We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new = versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to get = people=E2=80=99s input on the current version.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf= -state-10

Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate = if you support adopting this work by Thursday, July = 15.

Best,
Tommy & = Ian
= --Apple-Mail=_0CFEC085-6CBF-4F51-8146-06F6B987C539-- From nobody Thu Jul 1 09:58:44 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 88D823A112E; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:58:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.198, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Y-nI8HinmlZR; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:58:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp14.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp14.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EBE173A0BAD; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:57:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp14.rno.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp14.rno.apple.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 161Guni5002985; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 09:57:55 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=from : message-id : content-type : mime-version : subject : date : in-reply-to : cc : to : references; s=20180706; bh=qsts7TO2E7lClTL+lk+0sKRGflzmecdpJ/tuujFTtqA=; b=mvh9f6jiD6zudXjcqPKhb5x0zv0KmWw7e2sAqYqe2xZ/ZbIr5RRvltjvny+kc+iOStoe XVl+5gdYJ7AmV1kFNzMLa+Jn/QvueBVK1S9qZcMaBEdf2mi5Cww1M3M9OTpU9qibG6qL V6CebzbCJmu6iGJm0kCtpLFGYfXGGcV8J6JOJL4jAplrThqBimCIFx84fQ7Lgs2njnd8 tl6eM14E3n2hU31vMIrZcxFNAuC14EkA5CpbDakfzzv3ZtXjIMGV+YPxd4K3nbpXpJ9k cD0UN7/mIbiEr4aGEzId76XZL+cOqHAooRp3v8LMXqx86pMEEiUaIOI8J18EzZgjvxEZ kg== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.151]) by rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp14.rno.apple.com with ESMTP id 39e14b99m2-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:57:55 -0700 Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp01.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp01.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.14]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) with ESMTPS id <0QVK007H8SGJ9D30@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com>; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:57:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp01.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp01.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) id <0QVK00800S6RY600@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp01.rno.apple.com>; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:57:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 97ec25d448966c2341d47bda8c893f57 X-Va-E-CD: 3fd67582c5555947567ebd1412cc7cd2 X-Va-R-CD: 99217f0a800d1695b9a5b1c2850daf46 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: 0581fc1c-16f1-46bd-bbe0-e2a1cbf6bd37 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 97ec25d448966c2341d47bda8c893f57 X-V-E-CD: 3fd67582c5555947567ebd1412cc7cd2 X-V-R-CD: 99217f0a800d1695b9a5b1c2850daf46 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 7eac5064-e0a3-40b7-9664-235410c5ca94 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-01_09:2021-07-01, 2021-07-01 signatures=0 Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [17.234.104.83]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp01.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) with ESMTPSA id <0QVK00N1ASGIUE00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp01.rno.apple.com>; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:57:55 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Message-id: <0CFF75C4-3142-46A2-838C-27B79A36D794@apple.com> Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_07AB345F-D42D-4439-8CBA-B2C0322FAAE4" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3681.0.2.1.2\)) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 09:57:54 -0700 In-reply-to: Cc: IPPM Chairs , IETF IPPM WG , "draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org" To: Haoyu Song References: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3681.0.2.1.2) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-01_09:2021-07-01, 2021-07-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 16:58:43 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_07AB345F-D42D-4439-8CBA-B2C0322FAAE4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi Haoyu, Thanks for bringing this up again. As we=E2=80=99ve discussed in several = previous meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of = work that is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined = to say that its content should be in other drafts (as has been done). Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion of = the content. Best, Tommy > On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song = wrote: >=20 > Dear IPPM Chairs, > =20 > I=E2=80=99m writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following = draft =E2=80=9CPostcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet = Marking=E2=80=9D > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/= = > =20 > Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, = ZTE, Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. > As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking = complements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the = ecosystem complete, and I believe each can find its application = scenarios. For example, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied = in =E2=80=9Cdraft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam=E2=80=9D = (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam = ) = which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms = such as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered = there. Given the technique is equally applicable to other types of = networks, we believe it=E2=80=99s necessary to have a document to = formalized the method. > =20 > The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was = published in 2018. It originally covers two related but different = techniques. One was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, = IOAM DEX, which has been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based = on packet marking, is the core of the current draft. Thanks for the = numerous discussions and feedbacks from the WG, we now have a draft with = focused direction and relatively mature content. > =20 > Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request = the WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. > Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and = suggestions. Thank you very much for your consideration! =20 > =20 > Best regards, > Haoyu --Apple-Mail=_07AB345F-D42D-4439-8CBA-B2C0322FAAE4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = Haoyu,

Thanks for = bringing this up again. As we=E2=80=99ve discussed in several previous = meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that = is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say = that its content should be in other drafts (as has been done).

Any adoption call would = need to be predicated on more list discussion of the content.

Best,
Tommy

On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, = Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote:

Dear IPPM Chairs,
 
I=E2=80=99m writing to request the IPPM WG to = adopt the following draft =E2=80=9CPostcard-based On-Path Flow Data = Telemetry using Packet Marking=E2=80=9D
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based= -telemetry/
 
Now the draft is in -09 = version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, Huawei as well as some = network operators to coauthor this work.
As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT = based on packet marking complements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, = and HTS to make the ecosystem complete, and I believe each can find its = application scenarios. For example, the PBT based on packet marking has = been applied in =E2=80=9Cdraft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam=E2=80=9D (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-sr= v6-oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed = mechanisms such as configuration, data format, and export method are not = covered there. Given the technique is equally applicable to other types = of networks, we believe it=E2=80=99s necessary to have a  document = to formalized the method.
 
The draft has undergone a = long line of developments since it was published in 2018. It originally = covers two related but different techniques. One was latter stripped off = to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has been adopted by IPPM. = The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the core of the = current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks from = the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively mature = content.
 
Given the community = interest and the technical merit, we now request the WG to adopt the = draft and engage the WG to work on it.
Please let us know if there are any concerns, = comments, and suggestions.   Thank you very much for your = consideration!  
 
Best regards,
Haoyu

= --Apple-Mail=_07AB345F-D42D-4439-8CBA-B2C0322FAAE4-- From nobody Thu Jul 1 10:01:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 101B63A0B00 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 10:01:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -17.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-17.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3NItZa01PLgk for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 10:01:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com (mail-wm1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B9C1C3A0AD8 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id l1so4955935wme.4 for ; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 10:01:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jf7uOMFV/ONZMiojLIQDYYy6AQE0ViwqQMFuVSktRBE=; b=h36+ZwgXrGOyTb0y99ALAog2xjObmpJQJ2V2oexcaes5HMlnMnmDVUiY2blJ3/fRU6 TVWuP+uyB5YBZQIu89+9wB3aHxlQg62neizgNXmikpyzrTCPPviN8pO1xlr4Ym8VpJbi fN5d6drIyVHg3OELmz8y0XDKXxO6NIItjDJ+9Pl5Q75nHFuKlI5SxvRWcCPRcerniWeO IdQe5WSk6t2X4D/gAoHnB5shaz1ojU04PliwFzKwEyVO8Oxp8opK1q+trZiNmRbhdurE oZTglnHFgRafme6QRjn1XxoBI4TIxeNHlxVx8rPTgKJqCUrT65AbtbWVff+i4DX5NcWr sK5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=jf7uOMFV/ONZMiojLIQDYYy6AQE0ViwqQMFuVSktRBE=; b=WQTJooMXwKPnXa+/DEWypfVW2+QHAKfoBgWmrQlWxR7Y/NGS95pJMr25rod3WAhOG7 +ZsPb8wmKeNk86wDwGwxgUbPVdflD1FJp2H2eRmT6hli+EsRRIBlcv+Ryk/Xj37o6Ngi 8xbGHe5Z8jCmtIbC7Q/ZbJf3M905g2uDF4zqBCBN7iNPXW5+5RNRG8gzMAIpyqgdv3Pw /vjmrAO9Seb/lHGpVh6hQ86UonMD63IV8TflL9CIq7kgz2M2KKydXDu7VAl8U2PrNqgY UNPrNNTlw6glHH3qNjsm45t4rYhFdibSn8K35U4l5xxgvVnvYQfSHIeWXdWNZ9ksJ/KR hMDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532MqNfj6CRQ2s61+SJ/GDkAl9rLRH+qa+W2fyXWK7DH7sG8ipU0 1RnkIDVAe7N/bMdEDPWijkWcS6Tn/F1oFDnKNbwFVcUWJQpEm/48 X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzKYacjcQmtFy4EJuNytRKly2prOEg89mrXWb1xfBWx1f+7O3tixYCauEd0io2aNrotM5WkFyDGptAtYK9MERg= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:1992:: with SMTP id t18mr11956407wmq.165.1625158875745; Thu, 01 Jul 2021 10:01:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian Swett Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 13:01:03 -0400 Message-ID: To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" , IPPM Chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007eceb105c612c92c" Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] IPPM at IETF 111 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 17:01:49 -0000 --0000000000007eceb105c612c92c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" If you'd like time to present at IETF 111, please let the chairs know in the next few days. Thanks, Ian --0000000000007eceb105c612c92c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
If you'd like time to present at IETF 111, please let the chairs know in the next few days.

Thanks, Ian
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boundary="_000_BY3PR13MB47877D84B2FB84B6499AD6E89A009BY3PR13MB4787namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 5160fb75-6739-46a2-dd74-08d93cb66a3b X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 01 Jul 2021 17:34:01.2473 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: fxzF3PvnydsE/+2kORibThJWSmV/zzTB36nNVnbVHwMoTngcTcOgmKD6eprrClaqdQOQNnlbv/AwybpfICKmgg== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR13MB4520 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 17:34:10 -0000 --_000_BY3PR13MB47877D84B2FB84B6499AD6E89A009BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Tommy, I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the draft= indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas of the= related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the core = of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if cons= idered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft i= s about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collect= ion. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and = HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete the ecosys= tem for on-path telemetry. I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the WG and= to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks! Best regards, Haoyu From: Tommy Pauly Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM To: Haoyu Song Cc: IPPM Chairs ; IETF IPPM WG ; draft= -song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption Hi Haoyu, Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several previous m= eetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that is a= lready concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say that its c= ontent should be in other drafts (as has been done). Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion of th= e content. Best, Tommy On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song > wrote: Dear IPPM Chairs, I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft "Postcard-b= ased On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/<= https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra= cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry%2F&data=3D04= %7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fe= e8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783193667%7CUnknown%7CTWFp= bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%= 7C1000&sdata=3D%2FA57w%2FrWm3TXoEvBCcHT2IPQQJi%2BrcgQwlTvs18EX48%3D&reserve= d=3D0> Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, Hua= wei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking complem= ents the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem compl= ete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For example, th= e PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6man-spring-s= rv6-oam" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms s= uch as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there.= Given the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we b= elieve it's necessary to have a document to formalized the method. The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was published = in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. One was= latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has been= adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the co= re of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks = from the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively matu= re content. Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request the WG= to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestions. = Thank you very much for your consideration! Best regards, Haoyu --_000_BY3PR13MB47877D84B2FB84B6499AD6E89A009BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Tommy,

 

I think here I need to give some clarification. One = the one hand, the draft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the = high level ideas of the related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), bu= t this is not the core of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if considered impro= per in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft is about the = approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collection. In this= sense, it’s an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and HTS. I believe they are equally important and ne= eded to complete the ecosystem for on-path telemetry.

 

I would also like to take this chance to seek more f= eedback from the WG and to see the level of interest and support on this wo= rk. Thanks!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@= ietf.org>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption

 

Hi Haoyu,

 

Thanks for bringing this up again. As we’ve di= scussed in several previous meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level = description of work that is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I = am inclined to say that its content should be in other drafts (as has been done).

 

Any adoption call would need to be predicated on mor= e list discussion of the content.

 

Best,

Tommy



On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote= :

 

Dear IPPM Chairs,

 

I’m writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt th= e following draft “Postcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using P= acket Marking”

 

Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagu= es from Cisco, ZTE, Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor th= is work.

As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on= packet marking complements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to m= ake the ecosystem complete, and I believe each can find its application sce= narios. For example, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in “draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-o= am” (https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms such= as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. Gi= ven the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we beli= eve it’s necessary to have a  document to formalized the method.

 

The draft has undergone a long line of developments = since it was published in 2018. It originally covers two related but differ= ent techniques. One was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, I= OAM DEX, which has been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the core of the c= urrent draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks from the WG= , we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively mature content.=

 

Given the community interest and the technical merit= , we now request the WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it.=

Please let us know if there are any concerns, commen= ts, and suggestions.   Thank you very much for your consideration= !  

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

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I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Thu Jul 1 12:21:42 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA1B73A176E; 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Thu, 01 Jul 2021 12:16:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162514156275.10687.5210311195217579136@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Martin Duke Date: Thu, 1 Jul 2021 12:16:41 -0700 Message-ID: To: Tal Mizrahi Cc: IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs , Mirja Kuehlewind , Barak Gafni , Frank Brockners , Haoyu Song , Ramesh Sivakolundu , Shwetha Bhandari , Tianran Zhou , Zhenbin Li Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000074475c05c614aef4" Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 12:21:41 -0700 Subject: Re: [ippm] DEX Draft Updated X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 19:16:58 -0000 --00000000000074475c05c614aef4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tal, Thanks for the changes. Some comments on the diff: (3.1.2) - "The rate of exported packets SHOULD be limited so that the number of exported packets is significantly lower than the number of packets that are exported by the device." I think there's a typo here? s/exported/received in the second instance? - s/SHOULD not/SHOULD NOT - "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulating nodes that push a DEX option into traversing packets MUST avoid pushing an IOAM header into IOAM exported packets." but the DEX format is undefined, so I don't know how they could possibly meet this requirement in the general case. Instead, perhaps "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulation nodes that can identify a packet as an IOAM direct export MUST NOT insert a DEX option in those packets" On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:54 AM Tal Mizrahi wrote: > Hi, > > The draft was significantly revised (see links below) following the > security-related feedback from the last IETF meeting, and based on > further discussion that were held at the IOAM design team meetings. > > Thanks again, Martin and Mirja, for your feedback. > > The main changes compared to the previous version: > - Two sections were added, "DEX Packet Selection", and "Responding to > the DEX Trigger". These two sections are specifically intended to > address Martin's feedback regarding amplification attacks. > - New requirements were added to the security consideration section in > response to the comments in the last IETF meeting: > - Selective DEX at IOAM encapsulating nodes - in response to > Martin's comments. > and > - Rate limiting at IOAM transit nodes - in response to Martin's comments. > > - Avoid pushing the DEX option onto exported packets - in response > to Martin's comments. > > - Only export to trusted nodes - in response to Mirja's comments. > > Please let us know if there are further comments, and specifically > regarding the security aspects of the draft. > > Cheers, > Tal. > > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 3:12 PM wrote: > > > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the > > IETF repository. > > > > Name: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export > > Revision: 04 > > Title: In-situ OAM Direct Exporting > > Document date: 2021-07-01 > > Group: ippm > > Pages: 12 > > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ > > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export > > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04 > > > > Abstract: > > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used > > for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. > > Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data > > packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces a > > new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is > > used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported or locally > > aggregated without being pushed into in-flight data packets. The > > exporting method and format are outside the scope of this document. > > > > > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > --00000000000074475c05c614aef4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Tal,

Thanks for the chang= es. Some comments on the diff:

(3.1.2) - "The= rate of exported packets SHOULD be limited so that the number of exported =
packets is significantly lower than the number of packets that are expo= rted by the device."

I think there's a ty= po here? s/exported/received in the second instance?

- s/SHOULD not/SHOULD NOT

- "Furthermore, = IOAM encapsulating
=C2=A0 nodes that push a DEX option into traver= sing packets MUST avoid
=C2=A0 pushing an IOAM header into IOAM ex= ported packets."

but the DEX format is undefi= ned, so I don't know how they could possibly meet this requirement in t= he general case. Instead, perhaps
"Furthermore, IOAM encapsu= lation nodes that can identify a packet as an IOAM direct export MUST NOT i= nsert a DEX option in those packets"

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5= :54 AM Tal Mizrahi <tal.miz= rahi.phd@gmail.com> wrote:
Hi,

The draft was significantly revised (see links below) following the
security-related feedback from the last IETF meeting, and based on
further discussion that were held at the IOAM design team meetings.

Thanks again, Martin and Mirja, for your feedback.

The main changes compared to the previous version:
- Two sections were added, "DEX Packet Selection", and "Resp= onding to
the DEX Trigger". These two sections are specifically intended to
address Martin's feedback regarding amplification attacks.
- New requirements were added to the security consideration section in
response to the comments in the last IETF meeting:
=C2=A0 - Selective DEX at IOAM encapsulating nodes - in response to
Martin's comments.
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 and
=C2=A0 - Rate limiting at IOAM transit nodes - in response to Martin's = comments.

=C2=A0 - Avoid pushing the DEX option onto exported packets - in response to Martin's comments.

=C2=A0 - Only export to trusted nodes - in response to Mirja's comments= .

Please let us know if there are further comments, and specifically
regarding the security aspects of the draft.

Cheers,
Tal.



On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 3:12 PM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the
> IETF repository.
>
> Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dir= ect-export
> Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A004
> Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ OAM Direct Exporting<= br> > Document date:=C2=A0 2021-07-01
> Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
> Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 12
> URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-ippm-ioa= m-direct-export-04.txt
> Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-= export/
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dir= ect-export
> Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm= -ioam-direct-export-04
>
> Abstract:
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM= ) is used
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for recording and collecting operational and telemetry in= formation.
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed int= o data
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets while they traverse the network.=C2=A0 This docum= ent introduces a
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) optio= n, which is
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported o= r locally
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 aggregated without being pushed into in-flight data packe= ts.=C2=A0 The
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 exporting method and format are outside the scope of this= document.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
>
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Lgo= From nobody Thu Jul 1 18:08:43 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A7F183A1216 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:08:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.196 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.196 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id M0Ia5WYFYTI0 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:08:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 06C6C3A1214 for ; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:08:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxct.zte.com.cn (unknown [192.168.164.215]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id 8209B5FBD984521B33D6 for ; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 09:08:38 +0800 (CST) Received: from mse-fl1.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.14.238]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id 6C799FAE4DBB075DE9AC; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 09:08:38 +0800 (CST) Received: from njxapp04.zte.com.cn ([10.41.132.203]) by mse-fl1.zte.com.cn with SMTP id 16218bYO014990; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 09:08:37 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from xiao.min2@zte.com.cn) Received: from mapi (njxapp05[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid201; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 09:08:36 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 09:08:36 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2afd60de671496d73fa8 X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <202107020908369337270@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: <956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com> References: 956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Cc: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====_001_next=====" X-MAIL: mse-fl1.zte.com.cn 16218bYO014990 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Re-call_for_adoption=3A_draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-co?= =?utf-8?q?nf-state?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 01:08:43 -0000 --=====_001_next===== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====_003_next=====" --=====_003_next===== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Tommy & Ian, I support WG adoption of this draft (as co-author). Best Regards, Xiao Min ------------------原始邮件------------------ 发件人：TommyPauly 收件人：IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org); 日 期 ：2021年07月02日 00:49 主 题 ：[ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Hello IPPM, Back in November, we had a call for adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we asked for revised drafts. We’ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to get people’s input on the current version. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15. Best, Tommy & Ian --=====_003_next=====-- --=====_001_next=====-- From nobody Thu Jul 1 18:23:29 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E11333A1313; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:23:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -7.297 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-7.297 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.198, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 23VSRGcyY1fY; Thu, 1 Jul 2021 18:23:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [17.171.2.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BE9A83A130F; 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Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:23:17 -0700 (PDT) Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-E7C63618-4AFE-4FF1-BF2A-A03A46667722 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit From: Tommy Pauly MIME-version: 1.0 (1.0) Date: Thu, 01 Jul 2021 18:23:16 -0700 Message-id: References: Cc: ippm@ietf.org In-reply-to: To: "Hamilton, Robert" X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (19A5281i) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-01_12:2021-07-01, 2021-07-01 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 01:23:28 -0000 --Apple-Mail-E7C63618-4AFE-4FF1-BF2A-A03A46667722 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > On Jul 1, 2021, at 2:05 PM, Hamilton, Robert wrote: >=20 > =EF=BB=BFI am interested in the encryption of the PDM header, just because= I've done symmetric-key encryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorand= om obfuscation algorithms for key management. I see that we are interested i= n using HPKE. I have just a few concerns: >=20 > - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time b= efore general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that ma= kes it even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. Furt= her, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure environments dela= yed because of encryption-method concerns. As a note on this, HPKE does not in fact seem to be expired: https://www.iet= f.org/archive/id/draft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-09.html This is an official RG document that in IRSG and getting prepared for RFC pu= blication. It also is a stable protocol, and we at Apple are already deployi= ng it and relying on it. So, this protocol is ready for production (and is b= eing used as such) already.=20 Best, Tommy >=20 > - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want tha= t to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular, s= o this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is determin= ed to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now part of the t= ransmission time. >=20 > Still reviewing; I'll be back with more thoughts. >=20 > R; >=20 >=20 > Rob Hamilton > Infrastructure Engineer > Chemical Abstracts Service >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethesta= ck.com > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM > To: IETF IPPM WG > Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org > Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ip= pm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt >=20 > [Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org] >=20 > IPPM, >=20 > Please do take a look at this draft. >=20 > I think that iOAM will need encryption as well. We have spent quite a bi= t of time thinking over these issues. We even have 2 cryptographers from It= aly involved as co-authors. I want to do a side meeting where we can have q= uite a bit more time to discuss this but would love to have comments from th= e group on the list. >=20 > I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. > We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without enc= ryption, we do not wish to release. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dww= w.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf70= 2 > (831) 659-8360 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.co= m wrote:=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello IPPMers! >=20 > We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data. We feel that this i= s an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption of PDM. >=20 > We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dww= w.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf70= 2 > (831) 659-8360 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Forwarded Message ----- >=20 > From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" > To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso P= ecorella > Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00= .txt >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 > Revision: 00 > Title: Encrypted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (= EPDMv2) Destination Option > Document date: 2021-06-01 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypte= d-pdmv2-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypte= d-pdmv2/ > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-enc= rypted-pdmv2 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedded > in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as > a basis for measurements. As this data is sent in clear- text, this > may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information for > subsequent attacks. This document defines PDMv2 which has a > lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to > secure this data. Additional performance metrics which may be of use > are also defined. >=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including an= y attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged inform= ation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you h= ave received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, cop= ying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strictly p= rohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sender i= mmediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600. > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail-E7C63618-4AFE-4FF1-BF2A-A03A46667722 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


On Jul 1, 2021, at 2:05 PM, Hamilton, Robert &= lt;RHamilton=3D40cas.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=EF=BB=BFI am interested i= n the encryption of the PDM header, just because I've done symmetric-key enc= ryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorandom obfuscation algorithms fo= r key management. I see that we are interested in using HPKE. I have just a f= ew concerns:

- The latest HPKE draft expir= ed just last week. That means it's some time before general implementation. I= 'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that makes it even longer before I'll s= ee implementation for _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementa= tion of PDM in more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method= concerns.

As a note on this, HP= KE does not in fact seem to be expired: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/dr= aft-irtf-cfrg-hpke-09.html

This is an official RG doc= ument that in IRSG and getting prepared for RFC publication. It also is a st= able protocol, and we at Apple are already deploying it and relying on it. S= o, this protocol is ready for production (and is being used as such) already= . 

Best,
Tommy

- When we generate the PDM s= tructure and determine the timing, we want that to be as close to the wire a= s possible. The PDM timing was very granular, so this will add a variable am= ount of time to the time the packet is determined to be spending in transmis= sion; the encryption delay is now part of the transmission time.
<= span>
Still reviewing; I'll be back with more thoughts.

R;


= Rob Hamilton
Infrastructure Engineer
C= hemical Abstracts Service

-----Original Mes= sage-----
From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf= Of nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com
Sent: Thursday, July 1,= 2021 1:45 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org><= br>Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org
Subj= ect: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-enc= rypted-pdmv2-00.txt

[Actual Sender is ippm-= bounces@ietf.org]

IPPM,

Please do take a look at this draft.
I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.   We have s= pent quite a bit of time thinking over these issues.  We even have 2 cr= yptographers from Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to do a s= ide meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but woul= d love to have comments from the group on the list.
<= br>I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encr= yption.  I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend.<= br>We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, with= out encryption, we do not wish to release.

=
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
= https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3D= www.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&a= uth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646= c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360

=



<= br>On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethes= tack.com <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote:




Hello IPPMers!

We have just posted a= new draft to encrypt PDM data.   We feel that this is an importan= t feature to add before promoting widespread adoption of PDM.

We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the gro= up.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Produ= cts, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/cli= cktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-8= 0b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb0= 83390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360
<= span>





----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.= org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com <mackermann@bcbsm.com>= ;; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@= gmail.com>; Michael Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins= <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella <tommaso.pec= orella@unifi.it>
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM= EDT
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm= -encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt



A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.tx= t
has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and poste= d to the
IETF repository.

N= ame:        draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2<= /span>
Revision:    00
Title: &= nbsp;      Encrypted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Met= rics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option
Document date:&nb= sp;   2021-06-01
Group:     &n= bsp;  Individual Submission
Pages:    &n= bsp;   16
URL:          &= nbsp; https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.t= xt
Status:        https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
Htmlized: = ;     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encr= ypted-pdmv2


Abstract:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) hea= der embedded
  in each packet to provide sequence numbe= rs and timing information as
  a basis for measurements= .  As this data is sent in clear- text, this
  may= create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information for  subsequent attacks.  This document defines PDMv2 which ha= s a
  lightweight handshake (registration procedure) an= d encryption to
  secure this data.  Additional pe= rformance metrics which may be of use
  are also define= d.

           = ;                     &nbs= p;                     &nb= sp;                     &n= bsp;    


The IE= TF Secretariat



=
_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
h= ttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

_= ______________________________________________
ippm mailing l= ist
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailm= an/listinfo/ippm
Confidentiality Notice: This electronic mes= sage transmission, including any attachment(s), may contain confidential, pr= oprietary, or privileged information from CAS, a division of the American Ch= emical Society ("ACS"). If you have received this transmission in error, be a= dvised that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of= this information is strictly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the m= essage and contact the sender immediately by either replying to this message= or calling 614-447-3600.
__________________________________= _____________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.or= g
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
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text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ian and Tommy. I would like to present the explicit measurement draft (https://datatracker.= ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measurements-01) and the rela= ted "user device monitoring" draft (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr= aft-cnbf-ippm-user-devices-explicit-monitoring-01). We will publish updated versions in the next few days. In this regard, we take this opportunity to ask your current plans for the W= G adoption of draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measurements. You may recall we a= lready discussed this point at IETF109 and IETF110. Thanks. Mauro _____________________ Mauro Cociglio Telecom Italia - TIM Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274 10148 - Torino (Italy) Tel.: +390112285028 Mobile: +393357669751 _____________________ Da: ippm Per conto di Ian Swett Inviato: gioved=EC 1 luglio 2021 19:01 A: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) ; IPPM Chairs Oggetto: [EXT] [ippm] IPPM at IETF 111 If you'd like time to present at IETF 111, please let the chairs know in the= next few days. Thanks, Ian TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati. Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pers= one indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla= conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbia= te ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne= immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G= razie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged i= nformation intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, print= ing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender= by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. --_000_AM4PR07MB3363323011D3CC516338CBDDE91F9AM4PR07MB3363eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Ian and Tommy.

I would like to present the explicit measurement draft (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measu= rements-01) and the related “user device monitoring” draft (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-cnbf-ippm-user-device= s-explicit-monitoring-01).

We will publish updated versions in the next few days.

In this regard, we take this opportunity to ask your current plans for= the WG adoption of draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measurements. You may recal= l we already discussed this point at IETF109 and IETF110.

Thanks.

Mauro

__________= ___________

Mauro Coci= glio

Telecom It= alia - TIM

Via G. Rei= ss Romoli, 274

10148 - To= rino (Italy)

Tel.: +390= 112285028

Mobile: +3= 93357669751

__________= ___________

 

 

Da: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> Per= conto di Ian Swett
Inviato: gioved=EC 1 luglio 2021 19:01
A: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>; IPPM Chairs &l= t;ippm-chairs@ietf.org>
Oggetto: [EXT] [ippm] IPPM at IETF 111

 

If you'd like time to present at IETF 111, please let= the chairs know in the next few days.

 

Thanks, Ian

 

TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati.


Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle= persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante d= alla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora a= bbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di da= rne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privil= eged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying,= printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intende= d recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the s= ender by return e-mail, Thanks.

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessa= rio.
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Fri, 2 Jul 2021 14:13:49 +0000 Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 14:13:43 +0000 (UTC) From: "nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com" To: "ippm@ietf.org" , "Hamilton, Robert" Message-ID: <957929206.970072.1625235223518@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_970071_1430228484.1625235223512" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18469 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 14:13:56 -0000 ------=_Part_970071_1430228484.1625235223512 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob, Our cryptographers are working on a full answer to your question.=C2=A0 I w= ill be back to you with that. But, this is a very complex area and is actually why I will be scheduling a= side meeting (once I am able to do it!) so that we can talk over all these= issues in detail and with enough time to discuss. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360=20 On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, Robert wrote: =20 =20 I am interested in the encryption of the PDM header, just because I've don= e symmetric-key encryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorandom obfus= cation algorithms for key management. I see that we are interested in using= HPKE. I have just a few concerns: - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time = before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that = makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. F= urther, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure environments = delayed because of encryption-method concerns. - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want tha= t to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular,= so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is deter= mined to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now part of t= he transmission time. Still reviewing; I'll be back with more thoughts. R; Rob Hamilton Infrastructure Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service -----Original Message----- From: ippm On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestac= k.com Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM To: IETF IPPM WG Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ipp= m-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt [Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org] IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including any= attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged inform= ation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you= have received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, = copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strict= ly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sen= der immediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm =20 ------=_Part_970071_1430228484.1625235223512 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob,

Our c= ryptographers are working on a full answer to your question.  I will b= e back to you with that.

But, this is a very complex area= and is actually why I will be scheduling a side meeting (once I am able to= do it!) so that we can talk over all these issues in detail and with enoug= h time to discuss.

= Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360


=20
=20
On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, R= obert <rhamilton=3D40cas.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


I am interested in the encryption of = the PDM header, just because I've done symmetric-key encryption with pseudo= random numbers and pseudorandom obfuscation algorithms for key management. = I see that we are interested in using HPKE. I have just a few concerns:

- The latest HPKE draft expired just las= t week. That means it's some time before general implementation. I'm a main= framer, mostly, so I suspect that makes it even longer before I'll see impl= ementation for _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation o= f PDM in more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method conc= erns.

- When we generate the PDM stru= cture and determine the timing, we want that to be as close to the wire as = possible. The PDM timing was very granular, so this will add a variable amo= unt of time to the time the packet is determined to be spending in transmis= sion; the encryption delay is now part of the transmission time.

Still reviewing; I'll be back with more though= ts.

R;


Rob Hamilton
Infrastructure Engi= neer
Chemical Abstracts Service

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com
Sent: Thursd= ay, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org
Subject= : [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encry= pted-pdmv2-00.txt

[Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org]

IPPM,

Please do take a look at this= draft.

I think that iOAM will need en= cryption as well.   We have spent quite a bit of time thinking ov= er these issues.  We even have 2 cryptographers from Italy involved as= co-authors.   I want to do a side meeting where we can have quit= e a bit more time to discuss this but would love to have comments from the = group on the list.

I am very reluctant= to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.  I feel that w= e will become the attacker's best friend.
We have modifie= d the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encryption, we do n= ot wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
= https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&aut= h=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c= 2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360






On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote:





Hello IPPMers!

We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.   = We feel that this is an important feature to add before promoting widesprea= d adoption of PDM.

We would appreciate= any thoughts or comments from the group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3D= www.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&= auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf456= 46c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360






----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org= " <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com <mackerm= ann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.= it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; Mi= chael Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elk= ins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>= ; Tommaso Pecorella <tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it= >
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypte= d-pdmv2-00.txt



A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.t= xt
has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and p= osted to the
IETF repository.

Name:        draft-elkins-ippm-encr= ypted-pdmv2
Revision:    00
Title:        Encrypted IPv6 Performance = and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option
Document date:    2021-06-01
Group:&nb= sp;       Individual Submission
= Pages:        16
URL: =           https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encr= ypted-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:       = https://datatracker= .ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
Html= ized:      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypt= ed-pdmv2


Abstra= ct:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Opti= on (DO) header embedded
  in each packet to provide = sequence numbers and timing information as
  a basis= for measurements.  As this data is sent in clear- text, this
  may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get info= rmation for
  subsequent attacks.  This documen= t defines PDMv2 which has a
  lightweight handshake = (registration procedure) and encryption to
  secure = this data.  Additional performance metrics which may be of use
  are also defined.

&n= bsp;                     =                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                


The IETF Secretariat




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ip= pm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm=

_________________________________= ______________
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ippm@ietf.org
https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
Confidentiality N= otice: This electronic message transmission, including any attachment(s), m= ay contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged information from CAS, a= division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you have received th= is transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, copying, distribu= tion, or use of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Pl= ease destroy all copies of the message and contact the sender immediately b= y either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600.

____= ___________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
------=_Part_970071_1430228484.1625235223512-- From nobody Fri Jul 2 07:26:04 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0F5C3A2073; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 07:26:01 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id i5e5wRPJ87F0; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 07:25:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate 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14:25:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: it-IT, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.25.223] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 14:26:02 -0000 SGkgTmFsaW5pLA0KDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIGFkdmlzaW5nLg0KDQpJIGhhdmUgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2Yg 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draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 14:51:26 -0000 Paolo, Thanks so much for your comments. >=C2=A0At a first glance, it seems to me that PDMv2 is expected to be used = mainly in the enterprise domain. Is it so? Yes. > Do you have any thoughts on what may happen if e.g. a multinational compa= ny runs the protocol over multiple external > backbones where the IPv6 extension headers (in general, not necessarily j= ust the destination options header) may not be > handled? Does this represent a serious issue? We need to do a more in depth study in this area.=C2=A0 I have done some mi= nor testing with PDM enabled servers located in Singapore, San Jose and Eur= ope.=C2=A0 =C2=A0These were not blocked.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I am well-aware that a= number of studies in v6ops shows IPv6 extension headers being blocked.=C2= =A0 =C2=A0 Having said that, I am hoping that enterprises will let PDM extension heade= rs through their firewalls because of the functionality they provide.=C2=A0= =C2=A0 APNIC has been kind enough to give our team a grant for IPv6 deployment at = enterprises.=C2=A0 We are applying again and we wish to do an in-depth stud= y on PDM (and potential blockage / performance) in particular as a part of = the new grant.=C2=A0 =C2=A0 > Also,=C2=A0 I assume that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. host= s instead of routers). If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t expect > t= hat the performance degradation due to encryption is a serious issue. Do yo= u see other different cases where instead=C2=A0 > degradation may be a concern? Our cryptographers are working on a full answer to this question.=C2=A0 But= , what I can say for now, is that there is always a cost for the choices th= at you make.=C2=A0 We have thought over and over again about how to make ou= r implementation as light-weight as possible.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I hope to be able= to explain more at the IPPM session at IETF111, Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 On Friday, July 2, 2021, 07:25:51 AM PDT, Paolo Volpato wrote:=20 Hi Nalini, Thanks for advising. I have a couple of general questions. At a first glance, it seems to me that PDMv2 is expected to be used mainly = in the enterprise domain. Is it so?=20 Do you have any thoughts on what may happen if e.g. a multinational company= runs the protocol over multiple external backbones where the IPv6 extensio= n headers (in general, not necessarily just the destination options header)= may not be handled? Does this represent a serious issue? Also,=C2=A0 I assume that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. hosts = instead of routers). If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t expect that = the performance degradation due to encryption is a serious issue. Do you se= e other different cases where instead degradation may be a concern? Regards Paolo -----Original Message----- From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@inside= thestack.com Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 7:45 PM To: IETF IPPM WG Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encr= ypted-pdmv2-00.txt IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF rep= ository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm From nobody Fri Jul 2 09:00:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1BA3A2337 for ; 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Fri, 02 Jul 2021 08:59:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com> <202107021030004065160@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: <202107021030004065160@zte.com.cn> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Fri, 2 Jul 2021 11:59:44 -0400 Message-ID: To: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com Cc: ippm@ietf.org, tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/related; boundary="000000000000fba4e405c6260b81" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 16:00:02 -0000 --000000000000fba4e405c6260b81 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fba4e205c6260b80" --000000000000fba4e205c6260b80 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Authors I support WG adoption. This is a valuable telemetry tool in the operators toolbox for in-situ IOAM transit nodes data container encap / decap within IOAM domain, with this extension to existing OAM echo-request/reply used in IPv6, MPLS, SFC, BIER, SR. Highly valuable to operators. Gyan On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:30 PM wrote: > Hi Tommy and Ian, > > I support the adoption of this draft (as co-author). > > > Regards, > > Greg Mirsky > > > Sr. Standardization Expert > =E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E7=A0=94= =E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F=E8=90=A5= =E9=83=A8 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D > Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division > > > > E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com > www.zte.com.cn > Original Mail > *Sender: *TommyPauly > *To: *IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org); > *Date: *2021/07/01 09:48 > *Subject: **[ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state* > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > Hello IPPM, > > Back in November, we had a call for adoption > for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we > asked for revised drafts. > > We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-= start the > adoption call to get people=E2=80=99s input on the current version. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 > > Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you > support adopting this work by *Thursday, July 15*. > > Best, > Tommy & Ian > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com * *M 301 502-1347* --000000000000fba4e205c6260b80 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Dear Authors=C2=A0

I support WG adoption.

This is a valuable telemetry tool in the operators toolbox for = in-situ IOAM transit nodes data container =C2=A0encap / decap within IOAM d= omain, with this extension to existing OAM echo-request/reply used in IPv6,= MPLS, SFC, BIER, SR. =C2=A0

Highly valuable to operators.

Gyan

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:30 PM <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-l= eft-width:1px;border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex;border-left-color:rg= b(204,204,204)">

Hi Tommy and Ian,

I support the adoption of this draft (as co-auth= or).


= Regards,

Greg Mirsky


Sr. Standardization Expert=
=E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF= =E7=A0=94=E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F= =E8=90=A5=E9=83=A8 Standard Pre= research Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operatio= n Division



E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com
www.zte.com.cn
Or= iginal Mail
<= div>
Sender:=C2=A0TommyPauly
To:=C2=A0IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org);<= /u>
Date:=C2=A02021/07/01 09:48
Subject:=C2=A0[ippm] Re-call f= or adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state
_______________________________________________
ippm=C2=A0mailing=C2=A0= list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

Hello IPPM,
Back in November, we had a call for adoption for=C2=A0draft-xi= ao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we asked for rev= ised drafts.

We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new vers= ions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to get people= =E2=80=99s input on the current version.


Please review the document = and reply to the list to indicate if you support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15.

Best,
To= mmy & Ian


___= ____________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
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draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 16:30:04 -0000 --00000000000061dd5f05c626770b Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000061dd5e05c626770a" --00000000000061dd5e05c626770a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Authors Few questions. The solution appear to be data plane agnostic and can apply to any data plane. Correct? I would add SR to list of data planes or just say that the solution is data plane agnostic applies to all data planes. Also the recommended feasible method of deployment is to use PCE or PCE CC SDN centralized controller. In the introduction towards the bottom below is stated. =E2=80=9C The IOAM encapsulating node can acquire these IOAM capabilities i= nfo from the centralized controller, through, e.g., NETCONF/YANG, PCEP, or BGP.=E2= =80=9D As for centralized controller do you mean to say PCE or PCE CC-CCI object PCE/SDN centralized controller. You may want to state that the centralized controller option is the recommended method and reasons why. For IGP scenario would you need an IGP extension - much more complicated, or I guess you could use ISIS instance or OSPF transport mode to carry the metadata. I think it maybe better to drop the IGP scenario. Kind Regards Gyan On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:59 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: > Dear Authors > > I support WG adoption. > > This is a valuable telemetry tool in the operators toolbox for in-situ > IOAM transit nodes data container encap / decap within IOAM domain, with > this extension to existing OAM echo-request/reply used in IPv6, MPLS, SFC= , > BIER, SR. > > Highly valuable to operators. > > Gyan > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:30 PM wrote: > >> Hi Tommy and Ian, >> >> I support the adoption of this draft (as co-author). >> >> >> Regards, >> >> Greg Mirsky >> >> >> Sr. Standardization Expert >> =E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E7=A0= =94=E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F=E8=90= =A5=E9=83=A8 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D >> Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division >> >> >> >> E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com >> www.zte.com.cn >> Original Mail >> *Sender: *TommyPauly >> *To: *IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org); >> *Date: *2021/07/01 09:48 >> *Subject: **[ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state= * >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >> >> Hello IPPM, >> >> Back in November, we had a call for adoption >> for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and w= e >> asked for revised drafts. >> >> We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re= -start >> the adoption call to get people=E2=80=99s input on the current version. >> >> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 >> >> Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you >> support adopting this work by *Thursday, July 15*. >> >> Best, >> Tommy & Ian >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> ippm mailing list >> ippm@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >> > -- > > > > *Gyan Mishra* > > *Network Solutions A**rchitect * > > *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com * > > > > *M 301 502-1347* > > -- *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com * *M 301 502-1347* --00000000000061dd5e05c626770a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Authors=C2=A0
=
Few questions.

The solution appear to be data plane agnostic and can ap= ply to any data plane.=C2=A0 Correct?

I would add SR to list of data planes or just say that the so= lution is data plane agnostic applies to all data planes.

Also the recommended feasible method of d= eployment is to use PCE or PCE CC =C2=A0SDN centralized controller. =C2=A0<= /div>

In the introduction towa= rds the bottom below is stated.

=E2=80=9C=C2=A0The IOAM encapsulati= ng node=C2=A0can= acquire these IOAM capabilities info from the centralized=C2=A0controller, through, e.g., = NETCONF/YANG, PCEP, or BGP.=E2=80=9D

As for centralized = controller do you mean to say PCE or PCE CC-CCI object PCE/SDN centralized = controller. =C2=A0

You may want to state that the centra= lized controller option is the recommended method and reasons why. =C2=A0

For IGP scenario would you need an IGP extension - much m= ore complicated, or I guess you could use ISIS instance or OSPF transport m= ode to carry the metadata.=C2=A0 I think it maybe better to drop the IGP sc= enario.

Kind Regards=C2=A0

Gyan

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:59 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Authors=C2=A0

I support WG adoption.

This is a valuable telemetry tool in the operators tool= box for in-situ IOAM transit nodes data container =C2=A0encap / decap withi= n IOAM domain, with this extension to existing OAM echo-request/reply used = in IPv6, MPLS, SFC, BIER, SR. =C2=A0

Highly valuable to operators.

Gyan

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:30 PM <gregory.mirsky@ztetx= .com> wrote:

Hi Tommy and Ian,

I support the adop= tion of this draft (as co-author).


Regards,

<= span style=3D"font-size:14px;font-family:=E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB= =91;color:rgb(88,89,91)">Greg Mirsky


Sr. Standardization Expert
=E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E7=A0= =94=E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F=E8=90= =A5=E9=83=A8 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline = Product Operation Division


<= td valign=3D"top" width=3D"100" style=3D"font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93">

E= : gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com <= br>www.zte.com= .cn
<= /div>
Original Mail
Sender:=C2= =A0TommyPauly
To:=C2= =A0IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org);
Date:=C2=A02021/07/01 09:48
Subject:=C2=A0[ippm] Re-call for adoption:= draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state
<= div>
_______________________________________________
ippm=C2=A0maili= ng=C2=A0list
ippm@iet= f.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

Hello IPP= M,

Back in November, we had a call for adoption for=C2= =A0draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we as= ked for revised drafts.

We=E2=80=99ve gotten sever= al new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to g= et people=E2=80=99s input on the current version.


Please review the do= cument and reply to the list to indicate if you support adopting this work = by Thursday, July 15.

Best,
=
Tommy & Ian


_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
--


Gyan Mishra

Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

M 301 502-1347


--
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Cc: "draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org" Message-ID: <825396776.1085119.1625254605356@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1085118_1146626629.1625254605353" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18469 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 19:36:53 -0000 ------=_Part_1085118_1146626629.1625254605353 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Rob, > I don't want to slow down the PDM implementation, and in general I think = the encryption is a good idea.=C2=A0 >=C2=A0Encryption is fast on this platform, but to my knowledge it doesn't = do HPKE. I've just looked through the=C2=A0> RFE site and haven't seen any = asking for HPKE support. For a bit of context to IPPMers, I have had some offline interactions with = Rob.=C2=A0 He is speaking of the IBM mainframe platform which something nor= th of 90% of the Fortune 500 use. I spoke recently to someone at ARM who is looking at implementing HPKE.=C2= =A0 I believe Tommy stated that Apple is also using it. Rob, I will work with you offline about possibly putting in a Request For E= nhancement (RFE) to IBM for HPKE. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360=20 On Friday, July 2, 2021, 12:12:44 PM PDT, Hamilton, Robert wrote: =20 =20 Paolo: I'm particularly interested in PDM for helping with Enterprise Extender con= nections. Since we=C2=A0 are using the internet for these connections we ar= e subject to the vagaries of ISP traffic management and outages on multiple= continents. It's not just multinational companies that could make good use= of this protocol, but any companies with business partners with whom they = require reliable internet connectivity. In those cases I expect the end-nod= e encryption is a relatively smaller portion of the total packet transmissi= on time. I don't want to slow down the PDM implementation, and in general I think th= e encryption is a good idea. Encryption is fast on this platform, but to my= knowledge it doesn't do HPKE. I've just looked through the RFE site and ha= ven't seen any asking for HPKE support. Getting good value from PDM requires that destination headers be passed rel= iably from end to end. We probably have to lobby for that first, good exten= sion header handling network-wide. I'll be happy when I see PDM headers sho= w up in my Policy Agent logs. R; Rob Hamilton Infrastructure Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service -----Original Message----- From: ippm On Behalf Of Paolo Volpato Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 10:26 AM To: nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ipp= m-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt [Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org] Hi Nalini, Thanks for advising. I have a couple of general questions. At a first glance, it seems to me that PDMv2 is expected to be used mainly = in the enterprise domain. Is it so?=20 Do you have any thoughts on what may happen if e.g. a multinational company= runs the protocol over multiple external backbones where the IPv6 extensio= n headers (in general, not necessarily just the destination options header)= may not be handled? Does this represent a serious issue? Also,=C2=A0 I assume that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. hosts = instead of routers). If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t expect that = the performance degradation due to encryption is a serious issue. Do you se= e other different cases where instead degradation may be a concern? Regards Paolo -----Original Message----- From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@inside= thestack.com Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 7:45 PM To: IETF IPPM WG Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encr= ypted-pdmv2-00.txt IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3Dae63ba6f-614c-40c5-9a6d-dbc4bc0fbb82&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-117b9ada8970552b00544efe952da754c5c920= 78 (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3Dae63ba6f-614c-40c5-9a6d-dbc4bc0fbb82&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-117b9ada8970552b00544efe952da754c5c920= 78 (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF rep= ository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including any= attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged inform= ation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you= have received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, = copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strict= ly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sen= der immediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600. =20 ------=_Part_1085118_1146626629.1625254605353 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Rob,

> I don't want to slow down the PDM i= mplementation, and in general I think the encryption is a good idea. <= br>
> Encryption is fast on this platform, but to my knowledge it doesn't do H= PKE. I've just looked through the 
> RFE site and haven't seen any asking for HPKE support.

For a bit of context= to IPPMers, I have had some offline interactions with Rob.  He is spe= aking of the IBM mainframe platform which something north of 90% of the For= tune 500 use.

I spoke recently to someone at ARM who is l= ooking at implementing HPKE.  I believe Tommy stated that Apple is als= o using it.

Rob, I will work with you offline about poss= ibly putting in a Request For Enhancement (RFE) to IBM for HPKE.
=
Thanks,

Nalini Elkins<= br>CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(8= 31) 659-8360


=20
=20
On Friday, July 2, 2021, 12:12:44 PM PDT, Hamilton, Rob= ert <rhamilton@cas.org> wrote:


Paolo:

I'm particularly interested in PDM for helping with Enterprise Exten= der connections. Since we  are using the internet for these connection= s we are subject to the vagaries of ISP traffic management and outages on m= ultiple continents. It's not just multinational companies that could make g= ood use of this protocol, but any companies with business partners with who= m they require reliable internet connectivity. In those cases I expect the = end-node encryption is a relatively smaller portion of the total packet tra= nsmission time.

I don't want to slow d= own the PDM implementation, and in general I think the encryption is a good= idea. Encryption is fast on this platform, but to my knowledge it doesn't = do HPKE. I've just looked through the RFE site and haven't seen any asking = for HPKE support.

Getting good value f= rom PDM requires that destination headers be passed reliably from end to en= d. We probably have to lobby for that first, good extension header handling= network-wide. I'll be happy when I see PDM headers show up in my Policy Ag= ent logs.

R;


Rob Hamilton
Infrastructur= e Engineer
Chemical Abstracts Service
<= br clear=3D"none">-----Original Message-----
From: ippm &= lt;ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Paolo Volpato=
Sent: Friday, July 2, 2021 10:26 AM
To= : nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com
Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encryp= ted-pdmv2@ietf.org; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for dr= aft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt

[Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org]

Hi Nalini,

Tha= nks for advising.

I have a couple of g= eneral questions.

At a first glance, i= t seems to me that PDMv2 is expected to be used mainly in the enterprise do= main. Is it so?
Do you have any thoughts on what may hap= pen if e.g. a multinational company runs the protocol over multiple externa= l backbones where the IPv6 extension headers (in general, not necessarily j= ust the destination options header) may not be handled? Does this represent= a serious issue?

Also,  I assume= that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. hosts instead of routers).= If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t expect that the performance degr= adation due to encryption is a serious issue. Do you see other different ca= ses where instead degradation may be a concern?

Regards
Paolo

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com
Sent: Thursday, Jul= y 1, 2021 7:45 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.= org>
Cc: draf= t-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [= ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00= .txt

IPPM,

Please do take a look at this draft.

I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.   We ha= ve spent quite a bit of time thinking over these issues.  We even have= 2 cryptographers from Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to = do a side meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this b= ut would love to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world= without encryption.  I feel that we will become the attacker's best f= riend.
We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM b= ut as I say, without encryption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.= com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww.insidethestack.com&umid=3Dae63= ba6f-614c-40c5-9a6d-dbc4bc0fbb82&auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85= b2b059558-117b9ada8970552b00544efe952da754c5c92078
(8= 31) 659-8360






On Tu= esday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elk= ins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@ins= idethestack.com> wrote:





Hello= IPPMers!

We have just posted a new dr= aft to encrypt PDM data.   We feel that this is an important feat= ure to add before promoting widespread adoption of PDM.
<= br clear=3D"none">We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the gro= up.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.= com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww.insidethestack.com&umid=3Dae63= ba6f-614c-40c5-9a6d-dbc4bc0fbb82&auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85= b2b059558-117b9ada8970552b00544efe952da754c5c92078
(8= 31) 659-8360






-----= Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-= drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcb= sm.com <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid = <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; Michael Ackermann <m= ackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins <n= alini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella <tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it>
Sent: Tuesday= , June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Noti= fication for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt


A new version of I-D,= draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
has been succes= sfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository.

Name:        d= raft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2
Revision:  &nb= sp; 00
Title:        Encryp= ted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination = Option Document date:    2021-06-01
Group:=         Individual Submission
Pages:        16
URL:&nb= sp;           https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-e= ncrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:      &nb= sp; https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
H= tmlized:      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encryp= ted-pdmv2


Abstr= act:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Opt= ion (DO) header embedded
  in each packet to provide= sequence numbers and timing information as
  a basi= s for measurements.  As this data is sent in clear- text, this
  may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get inf= ormation for
  subsequent attacks.  This docume= nt defines PDMv2 which has a
  lightweight handshake= (registration procedure) and encryption to
  secure= this data.  Additional performance metrics which may be of use
  are also defined.

&= nbsp;                    =                     &nbs= p;                     &n= bsp;                


The IETF Secretariat




_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i= ppm


____________________________________= ___________
ippm mailing list
= ippm@ietf.org
https://w= ww.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
___________________= ____________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, includin= g any attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged i= nformation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). I= f you have received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclos= ure, copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is s= trictly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact th= e sender immediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-= 3600.
<= br clear=3D"none">
------=_Part_1085118_1146626629.1625254605353-- From nobody Fri Jul 2 15:03:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B2043A08E6; Fri, 2 Jul 2021 15:02:50 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: ippm@ietf.org, martin.h.duke@gmail.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <162526337015.26814.15095372661921868458@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 15:02:50 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] ippm - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 111 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 02 Jul 2021 22:02:50 -0000 Dear Ian Swett, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. ippm Session 1 (2:00 requested) Wednesday, 28 July 2021, Session I 1200-1400 Room Name: Room 8 size: 508 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/sessions/ippm.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: IP Performance Measurement Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Ian Swett Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 40 Conflicts to Avoid: People who must be present: Alfred Channon Morton Frank Brockners Greg Mirsky Ian Swett Martin Duke Rakesh Gandhi Tommy Pauly Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Fri Jul 2 18:50:11 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with 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15.20.4264.026; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 01:49:58 +0000 From: "Ackermann, Michael" To: "Hamilton, Robert" , IETF IPPM WG CC: "draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org" , "nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com" Thread-Topic: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHXVv9u2emgWGRbJEaxGlicZsG4X6r/Uh6AgC9BaoCAAVrEAIAAUCkAgABs4oA= Date: Sat, 3 Jul 2021 01:49:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: cas.org; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;cas.org; dmarc=none action=none header.from=bcbsm.com; x-originating-ip: [165.225.63.41] x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 26042c17-ed5a-462f-cbc9-08d93dc4dd56 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: 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ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 03 Jul 2021 01:50:10 -0000 SnVzdCBhIHF1aWNrIHdvcmQgb2YgdGhhbmtzIHRvIFJvYi4gDQpGb3IgdmVyYmFsaXppbmcg dGhlIHZhbHVlIHRoYXQgUERNIGFuZCBFeHRlbnNpb24gSGVhZGVycyBpbiBnZW5lcmFsIHdp bGwgaGF2ZSwgZm9yIEVFIGFuZCBtYW55IG90aGVyIE1haW5mcmFtZSBBcHBzIGF0IGh1bmRy ZWRzIG9yIGV2ZW4gdGhvdXNhbmRzIG9mIEVudGVycHJpc2VzLiAgICBBbmQgc2ltaWxhciBi ZW5lZml0cyB3aWxsIGJlIGV4dGVuZGVkIHRvIG1hbnkgb3RoZXIgcGxhdGZvcm1zIGFzIHdl bGwuICAgIA0KVGhlc2Ugb3JnYW5pemF0aW9ucyBhcmUgbm90IGRpcmVjdGx5IHJlcHJlc2Vu dGVkIG9yIGludm9sdmVkIGF0IElFVEYsICBidXQgd2lsbCBkZWZpbml0ZWx5IGJlIGJlbmVm aWNpYXJpZXMgb2YgZGV2ZWxvcG1lbnRzIHN1Y2ggYXMgUERNLiAgDQoNClRoYW5rcyBhZ2Fp biENCg0KTWlrZQ0KDQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBIYW1p bHRvbiwgUm9iZXJ0IDxSSGFtaWx0b25AY2FzLm9yZz4gDQpTZW50OiBGcmlkYXksIEp1bHkg 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bmQgaW5kZXBlbmRlbnQgbGljZW5zZWVzIG9mIHRoZSBCbHVlIENyb3NzIGFuZCBCbHVlIFNo aWVsZCBBc3NvY2lhdGlvbi4KCgpUaGlzIG1lc3NhZ2Ugd2FzIHNlY3VyZWQgYnkgWml4KFIp Lgo= From nobody Sat Jul 3 20:33:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE1EB3A30E6 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 20:33:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OFEddp_kv4xp for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 20:33:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxus.zteusa.com (mxus.zteusa.com [4.14.134.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 59F813A30E3 for ; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 20:33:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mse-us.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.36.11.29]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id AB131876318014E190F9; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 11:33:26 +0800 (CST) Received: from mgapp01.zte.com.cn ([10.36.9.142]) by mse-us.zte.com.cn with SMTP id 1643XL3p077151; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 11:33:21 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com) Received: from mapi (mgapp02[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid81; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 11:33:21 +0800 (CST) Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 11:33:21 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2afa60e12c013187d9a3 X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <202107041133216926247@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: References: 956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com, 202107021030004065160@zte.com.cn, CABNhwV3UwLc=LoyezLkxrcXZUd2o=xeKaKEScYsOX_R5DKOfzg@mail.gmail.com, CABNhwV2nV9J4dfcNhcLpQK9GGDzMy5y7iwiAMFqQN-1qiJxDjQ@mail.gmail.com Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Cc: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====_001_next=====" X-MAIL: mse-us.zte.com.cn 1643XL3p077151 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Re-call_for_adoption=3A_draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-co?= =?utf-8?q?nf-state?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 03:33:34 -0000 --=====_001_next===== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====_003_next=====" --=====_003_next===== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Gyan, many thanks for your comments and suggestions; all are much appreciated. Please find our answers and notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag. Regards, Greg Mirsky Sr. Standardization Expert 预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com www.zte.com.cn ------------------Original Mail------------------ Sender: GyanMishra To: gregory mirsky10211915; CC: ippm@ietf.org;tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org; Date: 2021/07/02 09:30 Subject: Re: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state Dear Authors Few questions. The solution appear to be data plane agnostic and can apply to any data plane. Correct? GIM>> Yes. The scope of this draft is to define constract that can be re-used in echo request/reply mechanisms, e.g., ICMP, LSP ping. I would add SR to list of data planes or just say that the solution is data plane agnostic applies to all data planes. GIM>> Thank you for the suggestion. Will add in the next version. Also the recommended feasible method of deployment is to use PCE or PCE CC SDN centralized controller. In the introduction towards the bottom below is stated. “ The IOAM encapsulating node can acquire these IOAM capabilities info from the centralized controller, through, e.g., NETCONF/YANG, PCEP, or BGP.” As for centralized controller do you mean to say PCE or PCE CC-CCI object PCE/SDN centralized controller. GIM>> PCE or PCE CC-CCI object PCE/SDN controller is one of possible realizations of a centralized controller. in your opinion, would referring to it as an example be helpful? You may want to state that the centralized controller option is the recommended method and reasons why. GIM>> We'll work on a new text for the next version of the draft. For IGP scenario would you need an IGP extension - much more complicated, or I guess you could use ISIS instance or OSPF transport mode to carry the metadata. I think it maybe better to drop the IGP scenario. GIM>> I agree, the optional use of IGP may bring challenges without sufficient benefits. We'll investigate it further and share our thoughts in short time. Kind Regards Gyan On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:59 AM Gyan Mishra wrote: Dear Authors I support WG adoption. This is a valuable telemetry tool in the operators toolbox for in-situ IOAM transit nodes data container encap / decap within IOAM domain, with this extension to existing OAM echo-request/reply used in IPv6, MPLS, SFC, BIER, SR. Highly valuable to operators. Gyan On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:30 PM wrote: Hi Tommy and Ian, I support the adoption of this draft (as co-author). Regards, Greg Mirsky Sr. Standardization Expert 预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com www.zte.com.cn Original Mail Sender: TommyPauly To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org); Date: 2021/07/01 09:48 Subject: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Hello IPPM, Back in November, we had a call for adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we asked for revised drafts. We’ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to get people’s input on the current version. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15. Best, Tommy & Ian _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm -- Gyan Mishra Network Solutions Architect Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com M 301 502-1347 -- Gyan Mishra Network Solutions Architect Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com M 301 502-1347 --=====_003_next=====-- --=====_001_next=====-- From nobody Sat Jul 3 21:03:46 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 48E113A31E3; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:03:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.097 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.097 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id O_nL2iG3vmXw; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x62c.google.com (mail-pl1-x62c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::62c]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31C673A31E1; Sat, 3 Jul 2021 21:03:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x62c.google.com with SMTP id b1so8251156pls.5; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 21:03:38 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=tSgYEGefK8nTR8/B+GTovOmqzL0yIMXUcZptuUE9C1k=; b=eH2AzbYxDwTK6HLx10GsE4VzIpgIqC69+bnLRVR/EZ/31fk+LvE1baLlBPKWeen/M/ w+j+DraVxW5bOchVIc5IIclueVVj0VsiSQZ91gLE0mxuZ74UgCWAXwd4Rh/YwauQazU0 MDEobEG2z+frOkr5/Io1wkOvejLoKNzCCATgaZTyoBzXQWF0es2Fi+LqrxpIih0Mamii 0kXH5rdoKlOJk2MVPXK6MtmSEVD/QzBAhgskcJS/U42DRkYnyt+nSmQIjfA5rUjEsdVo 01/MLeA3lo5K9C+cPjamH99PiAt/xtvT0g8TfFE7f6xOtiQUQiwbNBKxU1S1VBl007mo Xiyg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=tSgYEGefK8nTR8/B+GTovOmqzL0yIMXUcZptuUE9C1k=; b=VToMN/Gla7HD47ogsk+g3hzh8QSR8hv/Wvnuh0+kn+Y19G6us+gJ3pP4LF1rYvPz/E fICIQLjXZiLFLqslECJdW8L+k4KSeqQzoAB3BnsEuXuuEsAhkcOw6RrI6VJVaRfIL+dG 1OZ/UGI3B9bZ4X/egxnq1DOZJIzzCVvKeEj8tMPog8coxqCujtuk8zG7Wzv+8hPwL/IE j2vMoDsJS2wxUMSEJQ4mjPHWoY0/C8Fyla9klnT9cb7LfaYsxKtXrfmQavnsk1+K8LTR GM55HWvWaTYy793bslUECWG8VqpnCqUQc7ociV1bg87ieMdoPWv/JQ7JoItwfdF8/ur/ KRkA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530pf/iQ9u01WaQLe7eFevAokV0BKGbwvCsMG6SBmjxBh8kutzpp PhU5P12vO1fJLFgOfRuaoUNf2Ilv/fdxrFWbYXzHMyrLeeHsZA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzEOG3+H55Zn7LeB875q5EoxyNZ0s1FMfa8DS+yJfHito/cg3Tl1Wvt7jAOpykvi72lZlsltBx1mMqyGbnIMSQ= X-Received: by 2002:a17:902:6bc6:b029:122:68ea:32f3 with SMTP id m6-20020a1709026bc6b029012268ea32f3mr6604863plt.43.1625371416612; Sat, 03 Jul 2021 21:03:36 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> From: "Mohit P. Tahiliani" Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 09:33:25 +0530 Message-ID: To: "nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com" Cc: IETF IPPM WG , "draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000ea523205c6444557" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 04:03:44 -0000 --000000000000ea523205c6444557 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Greetings! I am new to the IPPM list but I have been following the conversation on IOAM integrity: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/222 I am wondering why you have chosen to do confidentiality (encryption of the data) as well as integrity. Thanks, Mohit P. Tahiliani On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 11:15 PM nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com < nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote: > IPPM, > > Please do take a look at this draft. > > I think that iOAM will need encryption as well. We have spent quite a > bit of time thinking over these issues. We even have 2 cryptographers from > Italy involved as co-authors. I want to do a side meeting where we can > have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would love to have comments > from the group on the list. > > I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without > encryption. I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. > We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without > encryption, we do not wish to release. > > > Thanks, > > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > www.insidethestack.com > (831) 659-8360 > > > > > > > On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, > nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com > wrote: > > > > > > Hello IPPMers! > > We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data. We feel that this > is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption of PDM. > > We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. > > Thanks, > > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > www.insidethestack.com > (831) 659-8360 > > > > > > > ----- Forwarded Message ----- > > From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" > To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid < > adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael > Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins < > nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella < > tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it> > Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT > Subject: New Version Notification for > draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the > IETF repository. > > Name: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 > Revision: 00 > Title: Encrypted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 > (EPDMv2) Destination Option > Document date: 2021-06-01 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 > > > Abstract: > RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedded > in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as > a basis for measurements. As this data is sent in clear- text, this > may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information for > subsequent attacks. This document defines PDMv2 which has a > lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to > secure this data. Additional performance metrics which may be of use > are also defined. > > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --000000000000ea523205c6444557 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 11:15 PM nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= <nalini.elkins@insi= dethestack.com> wrote:
IPPM,

Please do take a look at this draft.

I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend.
We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360






On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com = <n= alini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote:





Hello IPPMers!

We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM.

We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360






----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "i= nternet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bc= bsm.com <m= ackermann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpand= e <ameyanrd@gmai= l.com>; Michael Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins <nalini.elkin= s@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella <tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it>=
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt



A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2
Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00
Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option
Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01
Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypt= ed-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2


Abstract:
=C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d
=C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as=
=C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this
=C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r
=C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to
=C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use
=C2=A0 are also defined.

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0


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Tahiliani" Cc: "draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org" , IETF IPPM WG Message-ID: <540530658.5400383.1625410821717@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5400382_65396450.1625410821714" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18469 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 15:00:48 -0000 ------=_Part_5400382_65396450.1625410821714 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mohit, Thanks for your comments.=C2=A0 I am one of the co-authors of the PDMv2 dra= ft. PDM provides important information on the server delay, round-trip delay, a= nd correlating the flow packets. In PDMv2, we have also added a new metric = called the global pointer, which provides information on the amount of traf= fic being processed at the sender node. We think that PDMv2, with all its useful data, should provide encryption as= well as integrity because it is possible for a malicious intermediate node= to mislead the destination with modified data. Thanks,Ameya Deshpande On Sunday, 4 July, 2021, 9:33:57 am IST, Mohit P. Tahiliani wrote: =20 =20 Greetings! I am new to the IPPM list but I have been following the conversation on IOA= M integrity: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/222 I am wondering why you have chosen to do confidentiality (encryption of the= data) as well as integrity. Thanks,Mohit P. Tahiliani On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 11:15 PM nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com wrote: IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm =20 ------=_Part_5400382_65396450.1625410821714 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mohit,

= Thanks for your comments.  I am one of the co-authors of the PDM= v2 draft.

PDM provides impo= rtant information on the server delay, round-trip delay,
and cor= relating the flow packets. In PDMv2, we have also added a
new me= tric called the global pointer, which provides information on the
amount of traffic being processed at the sender node.

We think that= PDMv2, with all its useful data, should provide encryption as
w= ell as integrity because it is possible for a malicious intermediate node t= o
mislead the destination with modified data.

Thanks,
Ameya Deshpande



=20
=20
On Sunday, 4 July, 2021, 9:33:57 am IST, Mohit P. Tahil= iani <tahiliani.nitk@gmail.com> wrote:


Greetings!

I am new to the IPPM l= ist but I have been following the conversation on IOAM integrity: https://github.com/inband-oam/ietf/pull/222

I am wondering why you have chosen to do c= onfidentiality (encryption of the data) as well as integrity.

Thanks,
Mohit P. Tahilian= i

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 11:15 PM nal= ini.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elk= ins@insidethestack.com> wrote:
IPPM,

Please do take a look at this draft.

I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.   We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.  We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.&= nbsp; I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend.
We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360






On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalin= i.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkin= s@insidethestack.com> wrote:





Hello IPPMers!

We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.   We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM.

We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360






----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com <mackermann@b= cbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; Michael= Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins= <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; T= ommaso Pecorella <tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it>= ;
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt



A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:        draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2
Revision:    00
Title:        Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option
Document date:    2021-06-01
Group:        Individual Submission
Pages:        16
URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkin= s-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:        https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted= -pdmv2/
Htmlized:      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encry= pted-pdmv2


Abstract:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d
  in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as=
  a basis for measurements.  As this data is sent in clear- text,= this
  may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r
  subsequent attacks.  This document defines PDMv2 which has a   lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to
  secure this data.  Additional performance metrics which may be = of use
  are also defined.

                     = ;                     &nb= sp;                     &= nbsp;                


The IETF Secretariat




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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm<= /a>

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ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm<= /a>
------=_Part_5400382_65396450.1625410821714-- From nobody Sun Jul 4 16:22:07 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6A283A28CE for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 16:22:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.087 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_REMOTE_IMAGE=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZPen8Oy7By4s for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 16:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pl1-x634.google.com (mail-pl1-x634.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::634]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 68D6B3A28C6 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 16:22:00 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pl1-x634.google.com with SMTP id v13so9268847ple.9 for ; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 16:22:00 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=4rVvURJ7DgC4lNyWy4hspj+mejjVx19UedwejM/AUEw=; b=JqfqsrTO1YBRNotwgVwU0FmT1qNLzdu3c0T9ZxFwgW04HNLv59Tm1y3WHI6bMjQhhE koTTwmsV7VHZcRZJ8PiWOkhbNgVJQhIoxKYCWK181aPTeYUX5SNczUwQ0TcfYVOsU7sO VQ+4jcSoqb837kvU0Xll/9eX8Gv3YctmwBRbnM9Iw7623vJF2KeYbv8BO67hcUQh08/o 2og5vA1vR3zsXn05gDkZq3hKQe1u0JB12OmSkOy7UQNPcPOvlhORGyMzFbtzzVnXbRyY h16WPrLq9fdO/I80u/xpmuGWG6oLdlGov9nlHJ4+Bkuh4ISfXPtQB9OnAErOwqmYGAsV Q00g== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=4rVvURJ7DgC4lNyWy4hspj+mejjVx19UedwejM/AUEw=; b=Ui8z6W34CTV+DfAvMvRmrF/OXXFItbXvlQaiM3QV9ggsk7U5hya963PWiz6vvGOCKs sRWhEwIj0qkws1QDl/pdCgHZ8Y6vzO+Agn1/YWMaoVO8L4wmHKuCWNc10wRh3bR3fN/G TB48ar7IWWCgEMtOcHzca68VGlNqzt3+dsq6iAwECyAaP4aTF5Q2iLzWX4RqdLaOjs2E QGmJS8CgH71doLT86TTbT9yPW9tPVXj5NvAt6JIH6M78xzQDvc96ILm3P5/Fm3Xnn/FW j95pau4ykM8LdtIIT0WJ1F48SyYFo1cHd1DKZ4t0Jod/F7ZT9M3hqVJuD/U7KbG7K6WH 69mg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533CbPvcfngAPexlncSz4nxIhUyGYf1MQd0aUr4XUs51EUig8pYK 1lE29bNfKLCFfGfne8f1IrkBT0Ur2MiGycNlS5o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzFFic5VUujgFSPdZZZd5VaYgERyNf+WZtzzhfpXGKzvN0cAsRF9+RiqvilRdlpDf6V7ajPkLtRjPux7awKMic= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:4592:: with SMTP id v18mr11779152pjg.132.1625440918886; Sun, 04 Jul 2021 16:21:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <202107041133216926247@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: <202107041133216926247@zte.com.cn> From: Gyan Mishra Date: Sun, 4 Jul 2021 19:21:48 -0400 Message-ID: To: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com Cc: ippm@ietf.org, tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000092dac405c65474f0" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 04 Jul 2021 23:22:06 -0000 --00000000000092dac405c65474f0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Greg Most Welcome. Anything I can do to help advancement and improvement of the draft as this draft is important for operators. Responses in-line On Sat, Jul 3, 2021 at 11:33 PM wrote: > Hi Gyan, > many thanks for your comments and suggestions; all are much appreciated. > Please find our answers and notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag. > > Regards, > Greg Mirsky > Sr. Standardization Expert > =E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E7=A0=94= =E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F=E8=90=A5= =E9=83=A8 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D > Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division > E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com > www.zte.com.cn > ------------------Original Mail------------------ > Sender: GyanMishra > To: gregory mirsky10211915; > CC: ippm@ietf.org;tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org; > Date: 2021/07/02 09:30 > Subject: Re: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state > > Dear Authors > > Few questions. > > The solution appear to be data plane agnostic and can apply to any data > plane. Correct? > GIM>> Yes. The scope of this draft is to define constract that can be > re-used in echo request/reply mechanisms, e.g., ICMP, LSP ping. > > I would add SR to list of data planes or just say that the solution is > data plane agnostic applies to all data planes. > GIM>> Thank you for the suggestion. Will add in the next version. Gyan> Ack > > > Also the recommended feasible method of deployment is to use PCE or PCE > CC SDN centralized controller. > > In the introduction towards the bottom below is stated. > > =E2=80=9C The IOAM encapsulating node can acquire these IOAM capabilities= info > from the centralized controller, through, e.g., NETCONF/YANG, PCEP, or BG= P.=E2=80=9D > As for centralized controller do you mean to say PCE or PCE CC-CCI object > PCE/SDN centralized controller. > GIM>> PCE or PCE CC-CCI object PCE/SDN controller is one of possible > realizations of a centralized controller. in your opinion, would referrin= g > to it as an example be helpful? Gyan> Yes I agree that would be helpful. Maybe in the section where you add the example you can add corresponding verbiage as to the reasons for recommendation of use of centralized controller. > > You may want to state that the centralized controller option is the > recommended method and reasons why. > GIM>> We'll work on a new text for the next version of the draft. Gyan> Ack > > For IGP scenario would you need an IGP extension - much more complicated, > or I guess you could use ISIS instance or OSPF transport mode to carry th= e > metadata. I think it maybe better to drop the IGP scenario. > GIM>> I agree, the optional use of IGP may bring challenges without > sufficient benefits. We'll investigate it further and share our thoughts = in > short time. Gyan> Ack. I can investigate as well with experts on LSR as to using special non routing =E2=80=98transport style=E2=80=99 instance that we have= available today for metadata if possible to carry the IOAM data capability signaling. > > > Kind Regards > Gyan > > On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:59 AM Gyan Mishra wrote= : > Dear Authors > > I support WG adoption. > > This is a valuable telemetry tool in the operators toolbox for in-situ > IOAM transit nodes data container encap / decap within IOAM domain, with > this extension to existing OAM echo-request/reply used in IPv6, MPLS, SFC= , > BIER, SR. > > Highly valuable to operators. > > Gyan > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:30 PM wrote: > Hi Tommy and Ian, > I support the adoption of this draft (as co-author). > > Regards, > Greg Mirsky > Sr. Standardization Expert > =E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E7=A0=94= =E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F=E8=90=A5= =E9=83=A8 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D > Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division > E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com > www.zte.com.cn > Original Mail > Sender: TommyPauly > To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org); > Date: 2021/07/01 09:48 > Subject: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > Hello IPPM, > Back in November, we had a call for adoption for > draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we ask= ed > for revised drafts. > > We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-= start the > adoption call to get people=E2=80=99s input on the current version. > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 > > Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you > support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15. > > Best, > Tommy & Ian > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > -- > > Gyan Mishra > Network Solutions Architect > Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > M 301 502-1347 > -- > > Gyan Mishra > Network Solutions Architect > Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com > M 301 502-1347 --=20 *Gyan Mishra* *Network Solutions A**rchitect * *Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com * *M 301 502-1347* --00000000000092dac405c65474f0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Greg=C2=A0

Most Welcome.=C2=A0

Anything I can do to help advancement and improvement of the draft as= this draft is important for operators.

Responses in-line=C2=A0

On Sa= t, Jul 3, 2021 at 11:33 PM <= gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com> wrote:
Hi Gyan,<= br> many thanks for your comments and suggestions; all are much appreciated. Pl= ease find our answers and notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.
Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
=E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E7=A0=94= =E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F=E8=90=A5= =E9=83=A8=C2=A0 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institu= te/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mi= rsky@ztetx.com
www.= zte.com.cn
------------------Original Mail------------------
Sender: GyanMishra
To: gregory mirsky10211915;
CC: ippm@ietf.org;tp= auly=3D40ap= ple.com@dmarc.ietf.org;
Date: 2021/07/02 09:30
Subject: Re: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state
Dear Authors

Few questions.

The solution appear to be data plane agnostic and can apply to any data pla= ne.=C2=A0 Correct?
GIM>> Yes. The scope of this draft is to define constract that can be= re-used in echo request/reply mechanisms, e.g., ICMP, LSP ping.

I would add SR to list of data planes or just say that the solution is data= plane agnostic applies to all data planes.
GIM>> Thank you for the suggestion. Will add in the next version.

=C2=A0Gyan> Ack


Also the recommended feasible method of deployment is to use PCE or PCE CC= =C2=A0 SDN centralized controller.

In the introduction towards the bottom below is stated.

=E2=80=9C The IOAM encapsulating node can acquire these IOAM capabilities i= nfo from the centralized controller, through, e.g., NETCONF/YANG, PCEP, or = BGP.=E2=80=9D
As for centralized controller do you mean to say PCE or PCE CC-CCI object P= CE/SDN centralized controller.
GIM>> PCE or PCE CC-CCI object PCE/SDN controller is one of possible = realizations of a centralized controller. in your opinion, would referring = to it as an example be helpful?

Gyan> Yes I agree that would be helpful.=C2=A0 Maybe in t= he section where you add the example you can add corresponding verbiage as = to the reasons for recommendation of use of centralized controller.

You may want to state that the centralized controller option is the recomme= nded method and reasons why.
GIM>> We'll work on a new text for the next version of the draft.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Gy= an> Ack

For IGP scenario would you need an IGP extension - much more complicated, o= r I guess you could use ISIS instance or OSPF transport mode to carry the m= etadata.=C2=A0 I think it maybe better to drop the IGP scenario.
GIM>> I agree, the optional use of IGP may bring challenges without s= ufficient benefits. We'll investigate it further and share our thoughts= in short time.

= =C2=A0 =C2=A0Gyan> Ack.=C2=A0 I can investigate as well =C2=A0with exper= ts on LSR as to using special non routing =E2=80=98transport style=E2=80=99= instance that we have available today for metadata if possible to carry th= e IOAM data capability signaling.


Kind Regards
Gyan

On Fri, Jul 2, 2021 at 11:59 AM Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com> wrote:
Dear Authors

I support WG adoption.

This is a valuable telemetry tool in the operators toolbox for in-situ IOAM= transit nodes data container=C2=A0 encap / decap within IOAM domain, with = this extension to existing OAM echo-request/reply used in IPv6, MPLS, SFC, = BIER, SR.

Highly valuable to operators.

Gyan

On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:30 PM <gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com> wrote:
Hi Tommy and Ian,
I support the adoption of this draft (as co-author).

Regards,
Greg Mirsky
Sr. Standardization Expert
=E9=A2=84=E7=A0=94=E6=A0=87=E5=87=86=E9=83=A8/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E7=A0=94= =E7=A9=B6=E9=99=A2/=E6=9C=89=E7=BA=BF=E4=BA=A7=E5=93=81=E7=BB=8F=E8=90=A5= =E9=83=A8=C2=A0 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institu= te/Wireline Product Operation Division
E: gregory.mi= rsky@ztetx.com
www.= zte.com.cn
Original Mail
Sender: TommyPauly
To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@i= etf.org);
Date: 2021/07/01 09:48
Subject: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state
_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

Hello IPPM,
Back in November, we had a call for adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-= state that led to several questions, and we asked for revised drafts.

We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-st= art the adoption call to get people=E2=80=99s input on the current version.=

https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10

Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you support= adopting this work by Thursday, July 15.

Best,
Tommy & Ian
_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
--

Gyan Mishra
Network Solutions Architect
Email gyan.s= .mishra@verizon.com
M 301 502-1347
--

Gyan Mishra
Network Solutions Architect
Email gyan.s= .mishra@verizon.com
M 301 502-1347
--


Gyan Mishra

= Network Solutions Architect=C2=A0

Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com

= M 301 502-1347


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Mon, 5 Jul 2021 16:27:14 +0000 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 16:27:12 +0000 (UTC) From: "nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com" To: "ippm@ietf.org" , "Hamilton, Robert" Message-ID: <1732873610.1690997.1625502432340@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_1690996_1353231007.1625502432337" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18469 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 16:27:31 -0000 ------=_Part_1690996_1353231007.1625502432337 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Robert,[Posting for some of the co-authors.]We fully agree with your con= cerns. However, we=E2=80=99re confident that HPKE will reach the RFC status= soon. Moreover, also other protocols (e.g., MLS, see https://www.ietf.org/= archive/id/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-06.txt) are using it.About HPKE itse= lf, there are two different aspects to consider: HPKE (as an architecture, = API, etc.) and the cryptographic functions used by HKPE. While HPKE is stil= l in draft, the cryptographic functions are well-known and proven. Hence, w= e don=E2=80=99t expect any concern related to the encryption methods used b= y HPKE.The fact that Tommy confirms that it is being implemented and deploy= ed reinforces our confidence on the fact that its availability is not going= to be a critical point. In any case, we will take this point into consideration, as it is a valid c= oncern. Best regards, Nalini, Tom, and Adnan =C2=A0=20 On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, Robert wrote: =20 =20 I am interested in the encryption of the PDM header, just because I've don= e symmetric-key encryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorandom obfus= cation algorithms for key management. I see that we are interested in using= HPKE. I have just a few concerns: - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time = before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that = makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. F= urther, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure environments = delayed because of encryption-method concerns. - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want tha= t to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular,= so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is deter= mined to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now part of t= he transmission time. Still reviewing; I'll be back with more thoughts. R; Rob Hamilton Infrastructure Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service -----Original Message----- From: ippm On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestac= k.com Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM To: IETF IPPM WG Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ipp= m-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt [Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org] IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including any= attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged inform= ation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you= have received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, = copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strict= ly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sen= der immediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm =20 ------=_Part_1690996_1353231007.1625502432337 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable 
Hi Robert,
[Posting for some of the c=
o-authors.]
We fully agree with your conce=
rns. However, we=E2=80=99re confident that HPKE will reach the RFC status s=
oon. Moreover, also other protocols (e.g., MLS, see https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-=
mls-architecture-06.txt) are using it.
About HPKE itself, there are two different aspects to consider: HPKE (as a=
n architecture, API, etc.) and the cryptographic functions used by HKPE. Wh=
ile HPKE is still in draft, the cryptographic functions are well-known and =
proven. Hence, we don=E2=80=99t expect any concern related to the encryptio=
n methods used by HPKE.
= The fact that To= mmy confirms that it is being implemented and deployed reinforces our confi= dence on the fact that its availability is not going to be a critical point= .

In any case,= we will take this point into consideration, as it is a valid concern.

Best regards,

Nalini, Tom, and Adnan

 


=20
=20
On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, R= obert <rhamilton=3D40cas.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


I am interested in the encryption of = the PDM header, just because I've done symmetric-key encryption with pseudo= random numbers and pseudorandom obfuscation algorithms for key management. = I see that we are interested in using HPKE. I have just a few concerns:

- The latest HPKE draft expired just las= t week. That means it's some time before general implementation. I'm a main= framer, mostly, so I suspect that makes it even longer before I'll see impl= ementation for _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation o= f PDM in more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method conc= erns.

- When we generate the PDM stru= cture and determine the timing, we want that to be as close to the wire as = possible. The PDM timing was very granular, so this will add a variable amo= unt of time to the time the packet is determined to be spending in transmis= sion; the encryption delay is now part of the transmission time.

Still reviewing; I'll be back with more though= ts.

R;


Rob Hamilton
Infrastructure Engi= neer
Chemical Abstracts Service

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com
Sent: Thursd= ay, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org
Subject= : [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encry= pted-pdmv2-00.txt

[Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org]

IPPM,

Please do take a look at this= draft.

I think that iOAM will need en= cryption as well.   We have spent quite a bit of time thinking ov= er these issues.  We even have 2 cryptographers from Italy involved as= co-authors.   I want to do a side meeting where we can have quit= e a bit more time to discuss this but would love to have comments from the = group on the list.

I am very reluctant= to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.  I feel that w= e will become the attacker's best friend.
We have modifie= d the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encryption, we do n= ot wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
= https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&aut= h=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c= 2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360






On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote:





Hello IPPMers!

We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.   = We feel that this is an important feature to add before promoting widesprea= d adoption of PDM.

We would appreciate= any thoughts or comments from the group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3D= www.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&= auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf456= 46c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360






----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org= " <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com <mackerm= ann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.= it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; Mi= chael Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elk= ins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>= ; Tommaso Pecorella <tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it= >
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypte= d-pdmv2-00.txt



A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.t= xt
has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and p= osted to the
IETF repository.

Name:        draft-elkins-ippm-encr= ypted-pdmv2
Revision:    00
Title:        Encrypted IPv6 Performance = and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option
Document date:    2021-06-01
Group:&nb= sp;       Individual Submission
= Pages:        16
URL: =           https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encr= ypted-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:       = https://datatracker= .ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
Html= ized:      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypt= ed-pdmv2


Abstra= ct:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Opti= on (DO) header embedded
  in each packet to provide = sequence numbers and timing information as
  a basis= for measurements.  As this data is sent in clear- text, this
  may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get info= rmation for
  subsequent attacks.  This documen= t defines PDMv2 which has a
  lightweight handshake = (registration procedure) and encryption to
  secure = this data.  Additional performance metrics which may be of use
  are also defined.

&n= bsp;                     =                      = ;                     &nb= sp;                


The IETF Secretariat




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https:/= /www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
Confidentiality N= otice: This electronic message transmission, including any attachment(s), m= ay contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged information from CAS, a= division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you have received th= is transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, copying, distribu= tion, or use of the contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Pl= ease destroy all copies of the message and contact the sender immediately b= y either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600.

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Please check the inline comments. > - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time= before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that= makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. = Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure environments= delayed because of encryption-method concerns.=20 We have kept an option for no-encryption in PDMv2 as well. And it is kept e= xactly for the same reason you mentioned. Connections over encrypted medium (say VPN = tunnels),link-local network, or any secured company domain can choose to us= e PDMv2 unencrypted. > - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want th= at to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular= , so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is dete= rmined to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now part of = the transmission time. Yes, for a PDM-to-PDM machine, the round trip time, a.k.a DELTATLS, will in= clude the two encryptionand two decryption times. We are trying our best to= minimize any added timing due to the encryption in PDMv2, but we feel that= encryption is important, so we're trying to achieve a correct balance. Thanks,Ameya Deshpande On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 9:57:51 pm IST, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.c= om wrote: =20 =20 Hi Robert,[Posting for some of the co-authors.]We fully agree with your co= ncerns. However, we=E2=80=99re confident that HPKE will reach the RFC statu= s soon. Moreover, also other protocols (e.g., MLS, see https://www.ietf.org= /archive/id/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-06.txt) are using it.About HPKE its= elf, there are two different aspects to consider: HPKE (as an architecture,= API, etc.) and the cryptographic functions used by HKPE. While HPKE is sti= ll in draft, the cryptographic functions are well-known and proven. Hence, = we don=E2=80=99t expect any concern related to the encryption methods used = by HPKE.The fact that Tommy confirms that it is being implemented and deplo= yed reinforces our confidence on the fact that its availability is not goin= g to be a critical point. In any case, we will take this point into consideration, as it is a valid c= oncern. Best regards, Nalini, Tom, and Adnan =C2=A0=20 On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, Robert wrote: =20 =20 I am interested in the encryption of the PDM header, just because I've don= e symmetric-key encryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorandom obfus= cation algorithms for key management. I see that we are interested in using= HPKE. I have just a few concerns: - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time = before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that = makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. F= urther, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure environments = delayed because of encryption-method concerns. - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want tha= t to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular,= so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is deter= mined to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now part of t= he transmission time. Still reviewing; I'll be back with more thoughts. R; Rob Hamilton Infrastructure Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service -----Original Message----- From: ippm On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestac= k.com Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM To: IETF IPPM WG Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ipp= m-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt [Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org] IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including any= attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged inform= ation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you= have received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, = copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strict= ly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sen= der immediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm =20 ------=_Part_5739389_1072957223.1625503729025 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Robert,

Thanks for your comments. Please c= heck the inline comments.

>=20 -=20 The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time=20 before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect=20 that makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for=20 _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in=20 more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method concerns.

We have kept an option for no-encr= yption in PDMv2 as well. And it is kept exactly for
the same= reason you mentioned. Connections over encrypted medium (say VPN tunnels),=
link-local network, or any secured company domain can choose to = use PDMv2 unencrypted.

>=20 - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want=20 that to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very=20 granular, so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the=20 packet is determined to be spending in transmission; the encryption=20 delay is now part of the transmission time.

Yes, for a PDM-to-PDM machine, the round trip time, a.k.a DELTATLS, will i= nclude the two encryption
and two decryption times. We are= trying our best to minimize any added timing due to the encryption
in PDMv2, but we feel that encryption is = important, so we're trying to achieve a correct balance.
=

Thanks,
Ameya Deshpande
=20
=20
On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 9:57:51 pm IST, nalini.elkins@= insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote: 


Hi Robert,
[Posting for some of the co-auth=
ors.]
We fully agree with your concerns. However, we=
=E2=80=99re confident that HPKE will reach the RFC status soon. Moreover, a=
lso other protocols (e.g., MLS, see https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ie=
tf-mls-architecture-06.txt) are using it.
About H=
PKE itself, there are two different aspects to consider: HPKE (as an archit=
ecture, API, etc.) and the cryptographic functions used by HKPE. While HPKE=
 is still in draft, the cryptographic functions are well-known and proven. =
Hence, we don=E2=80=99t expect any concern related to the encryption method=
s used by HPKE.
The fact that Tommy confirms t= hat it is being implemented and deployed reinforces our confidence on the f= act that its availability is not going to be a critical point.
In any case, we will take this point into cons= ideration, as it is a valid concern.

Best= regards,

Nalini, Tom, and Adnan

 


=20
=20
On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, R= obert <rhamilton=3D40cas.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


I am interested in the encryption of = the PDM header, just because I've done symmetric-key encryption with pseudo= random numbers and pseudorandom obfuscation algorithms for key management. = I see that we are interested in using HPKE. I have just a few concerns:

- The latest HPKE draft expired just las= t week. That means it's some time before general implementation. I'm a main= framer, mostly, so I suspect that makes it even longer before I'll see impl= ementation for _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation o= f PDM in more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method conc= erns.

- When we generate the PDM stru= cture and determine the timing, we want that to be as close to the wire as = possible. The PDM timing was very granular, so this will add a variable amo= unt of time to the time the packet is determined to be spending in transmis= sion; the encryption delay is now part of the transmission time.

Still reviewing; I'll be back with more though= ts.

R;


Rob Hamilton
Infrastructure Engi= neer
Chemical Abstracts Service

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm <i= ppm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of nalini.el= kins@insidethestack.com
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 = 1:45 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Cc= : draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-p= dmv2@ietf.org
Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Versi= on Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt

[Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org]

IPPM,

= Please do take a look at this draft.

I= think that iOAM will need encryption as well.   We have spent qu= ite a bit of time thinking over these issues.  We even have 2 cryptogr= aphers from Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to do a side m= eeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would lo= ve to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without en= cryption.  I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend.
We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say= , without encryption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

= Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Pr= oducts, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.tr= endmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww.insidethestack.com&um= id=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3a= d58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360






On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nali= ni.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@= insidethestack.com> wrote:




He= llo IPPMers!

We have just posted a new= draft to encrypt PDM data.   We feel that this is an important f= eature to add before promoting widespread adoption of PDM.

We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the = group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
https://smex= 12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww.insidethest= ack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97381e= 9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360




<= br clear=3D"none">----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet= -drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com &= lt;mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; Michael Ackermann <= ;mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins <na= lini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella <t= ommaso.pecorella@unifi.it>
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, = 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification f= or draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt



A new version of I-D, draft-elk= ins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
has been successfully sub= mitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository= .

Name:      =   draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2
Revision: &= nbsp;  00
Title:       = ; Encrypted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Dest= ination Option
Document date:    2021-06-0= 1
Group:        Individual = Submission
Pages:        16=
URL:            https= ://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:        https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
Htmlized:&= nbsp;     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-= ippm-encrypted-pdmv2


Abstract:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Dest= ination Option (DO) header embedded
  in each packet= to provide sequence numbers and timing information as
&n= bsp; a basis for measurements.  As this data is sent in clear- text, t= his
  may create an opportunity for malicious actors= to get information for
  subsequent attacks.  = This document defines PDMv2 which has a
  lightweigh= t handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to
&n= bsp; secure this data.  Additional performance metrics which may be of= use
  are also defined.

                  &n= bsp;                     =                      = ;                    

The IETF Secretariat<= br clear=3D"none">


=
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Confiden= tiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including any attachm= ent(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged information fr= om CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you have re= ceived this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, copying,= distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strictly prohi= bited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sender imme= diately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600.

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Mon, 5 Jul 2021 16:52:43 +0000 Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 16:52:41 +0000 (UTC) From: Ameya Deshpande To: "ippm@ietf.org" , "nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com" , Paolo Volpato Message-ID: <1572807293.5736260.1625503961968@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1402651859.5739390.1625503729029@mail.yahoo.com> References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> <1732873610.1690997.1625502432340@mail.yahoo.com> <1402651859.5739390.1625503729029@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_5736259_2072012791.1625503961964" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18469 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 05 Jul 2021 16:52:58 -0000 ------=_Part_5736259_2072012791.1625503961964 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paolo, Thanks for your comments. Please check the inline reply. > Also,=C2=A0 I assume that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. host= s instead of routers). If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t expect tha= t the performance degradation due to encryption is a serious issue. Do you = see other different cases where instead degradation may be a concern?=20 When using encrypted PDMv2, we have a bigger packet to send asthe size of e= ncrypted data is more than the corresponding plaintext data.This can increa= se the timing slightly as the packet size has increased. For using encrypted PDMv2, we have an initial registration phase wherewe ne= gotiate the shared secret (using KEM). We have also given a registrationmec= hanism for enterprises with many servers and clients. However, this willbe = done before transmitting PDMv2 packets. We intend to have a side-meeting where we will explain HPKE and be able to = thoroughly discuss these points.=C2=A0 When we are able to schedule it, we = will let you know.=C2=A0 The registration to schedule side meetings has not= yet opened. Thanks,Ameya Deshpande On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 10:19:21 pm IST, Ameya Deshpande wrote: =20 =20 Hi Robert, Thanks for your comments. Please check the inline comments. > - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time= before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that= makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. = Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure environments= delayed because of encryption-method concerns.=20 We have kept an option for no-encryption in PDMv2 as well. And it is kept e= xactly for the same reason you mentioned. Connections over encrypted medium (say VPN = tunnels),link-local network, or any secured company domain can choose to us= e PDMv2 unencrypted. > - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want th= at to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular= , so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is dete= rmined to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now part of = the transmission time. Yes, for a PDM-to-PDM machine, the round trip time, a.k.a DELTATLS, will in= clude the two encryptionand two decryption times. We are trying our best to= minimize any added timing due to the encryption in PDMv2, but we feel that= encryption is important, so we're trying to achieve a correct balance. Thanks,Ameya Deshpande On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 9:57:51 pm IST, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.c= om wrote: =20 =20 Hi Robert,[Posting for some of the co-authors.]We fully agree with your co= ncerns. However, we=E2=80=99re confident that HPKE will reach the RFC statu= s soon. Moreover, also other protocols (e.g., MLS, see https://www.ietf.org= /archive/id/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-06.txt) are using it.About HPKE its= elf, there are two different aspects to consider: HPKE (as an architecture,= API, etc.) and the cryptographic functions used by HKPE. While HPKE is sti= ll in draft, the cryptographic functions are well-known and proven. Hence, = we don=E2=80=99t expect any concern related to the encryption methods used = by HPKE.The fact that Tommy confirms that it is being implemented and deplo= yed reinforces our confidence on the fact that its availability is not goin= g to be a critical point. In any case, we will take this point into consideration, as it is a valid c= oncern. Best regards, Nalini, Tom, and Adnan =C2=A0=20 On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, Robert wrote: =20 =20 I am interested in the encryption of the PDM header, just because I've don= e symmetric-key encryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorandom obfus= cation algorithms for key management. I see that we are interested in using= HPKE. I have just a few concerns: - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time = before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that = makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. F= urther, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure environments = delayed because of encryption-method concerns. - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want tha= t to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular,= so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is deter= mined to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now part of t= he transmission time. Still reviewing; I'll be back with more thoughts. R; Rob Hamilton Infrastructure Engineer Chemical Abstracts Service -----Original Message----- From: ippm On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestac= k.com Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM To: IETF IPPM WG Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ipp= m-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt [Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org] IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww= .insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97= 381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf7= 02 (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including any= attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged inform= ation from CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you= have received this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, = copying, distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strict= ly prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sen= der immediately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600. _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm =20 ------=_Part_5736259_2072012791.1625503961964 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Paolo,

Thanks for your comments. Please ch= eck the inline reply.

>=20 Also,  I assume that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. hosts= =20 instead of routers). If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t expect that = the=20 performance degradation due to encryption is a serious issue. Do you see other different cases where instead degradation may be a concern?

When using encrypted PDMv2, we have a bigger p= acket to send as
the size of encrypted data is more than the corr= esponding plaintext data.
This can increase the timing slightly a= s the packet size has increased.

For using enc= rypted PDMv2, we have an initial registration phase where
we nego= tiate the shared secret (using KEM). We have also given a registration
mechanism for enterprises with many servers and clients. However, thi= s will
be done before transmitting PDMv2 packets.

<= /div>
We intend to have a side-meeting where we will explain HPKE and b= e able
to thoroughly discuss these points.  When we are abl= e to schedule it, we will
let you know.  The registration t= o schedule side meetings has not yet opened.
<= br>
Thanks,
Ameya Deshpande
=20
=20
On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 10:19:21 pm IST, Ameya Deshpan= de <ameyanrd=3D40yahoo.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


Hi Robert,

Thanks for y= our comments. Please check the inline comments.

>=20 -= =20 The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time=20 before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect=20 that makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for=20 _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in=20 more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method concerns.

We have kep= t an option for no-encryption in PDMv2 as well. And it is kept exactly for<= br clear=3D"none">
the same reason you mentioned. Connections ov= er encrypted medium (say VPN tunnels),
link-local network, or any= secured company domain can choose to use PDMv2 unencrypted.

>=20 - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want=20 that to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very=20 granular, so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the=20 packet is determined to be spending in transmission; the encryption=20 delay is now part of the transmission time.

Yes, for a PDM-to-PDM machine, the round trip time, a.k.a DELTATLS= , will include the two encryption
and two decryption times. We ar= e trying our best to minimize any added timing due to the encryption
<= span class=3D"yiv2926899190ydp4ff1b7c0im">
in PDMv2, but we fee= l that encryption is important, so we're trying to achieve a correct balanc= e.

Thanks,
<= div dir=3D"ltr">Ameya Deshpande
=20
=20
On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 9:57:51 pm IST, nalini.elkins@= insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote: 


Hi Robert,
[Posting for some of the co-auth=
ors.]
We fully agree with your concerns. However, we=
=E2=80=99re confident that HPKE will reach the RFC status soon. Moreover, a=
lso other protocols (e.g., MLS, see https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ie=
tf-mls-architecture-06.txt) are using it.
About H=
PKE itself, there are two different aspects to consider: HPKE (as an archit=
ecture, API, etc.) and the cryptographic functions used by HKPE. While HPKE=
 is still in draft, the cryptographic functions are well-known and proven. =
Hence, we don=E2=80=99t expect any concern related to the encryption method=
s used by HPKE.
The fact that Tommy confirms t= hat it is being implemented and deployed reinforces our confidence on the f= act that its availability is not going to be a critical point.
In any case, we will take this point into cons= ideration, as it is a valid concern.

Best= regards,

Nalini, Tom, and Adnan

 


=20
=20
On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, R= obert <rhamilton=3D40cas.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


I am interested in the encryption of = the PDM header, just because I've done symmetric-key encryption with pseudo= random numbers and pseudorandom obfuscation algorithms for key management. = I see that we are interested in using HPKE. I have just a few concerns:

- The latest HPKE draft expired just las= t week. That means it's some time before general implementation. I'm a main= framer, mostly, so I suspect that makes it even longer before I'll see impl= ementation for _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation o= f PDM in more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method conc= erns.

- When we generate the PDM stru= cture and determine the timing, we want that to be as close to the wire as = possible. The PDM timing was very granular, so this will add a variable amo= unt of time to the time the packet is determined to be spending in transmis= sion; the encryption delay is now part of the transmission time.

Still reviewing; I'll be back with more though= ts.

R;


Rob Hamilton
Infrastructure Engi= neer
Chemical Abstracts Service

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm <i= ppm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of nalini.el= kins@insidethestack.com
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 = 1:45 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Cc= : draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-p= dmv2@ietf.org
Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Versi= on Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt

[Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org]

IPPM,

= Please do take a look at this draft.

I= think that iOAM will need encryption as well.   We have spent qu= ite a bit of time thinking over these issues.  We even have 2 cryptogr= aphers from Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to do a side m= eeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would lo= ve to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without en= cryption.  I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend.
We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say= , without encryption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

= Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Pr= oducts, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.tr= endmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww.insidethestack.com&um= id=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3a= d58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360






On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nali= ni.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@= insidethestack.com> wrote:




He= llo IPPMers!

We have just posted a new= draft to encrypt PDM data.   We feel that this is an important f= eature to add before promoting widespread adoption of PDM.

We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the = group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
https://smex= 12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dwww.insidethest= ack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c97381e= 9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55adf702
(831) 659-8360




<= br clear=3D"none">----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet= -drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com &= lt;mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; Michael Ackermann <= ;mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins <na= lini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella <t= ommaso.pecorella@unifi.it>
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, = 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification f= or draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt



A new version of I-D, draft-elk= ins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
has been successfully sub= mitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository= .

Name:      =   draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2
Revision: &= nbsp;  00
Title:       = ; Encrypted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Dest= ination Option
Document date:    2021-06-0= 1
Group:        Individual = Submission
Pages:        16=
URL:            https= ://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:        https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
Htmlized:&= nbsp;     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-= ippm-encrypted-pdmv2


Abstract:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Dest= ination Option (DO) header embedded
  in each packet= to provide sequence numbers and timing information as
&n= bsp; a basis for measurements.  As this data is sent in clear- text, t= his
  may create an opportunity for malicious actors= to get information for
  subsequent attacks.  = This document defines PDMv2 which has a
  lightweigh= t handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to
&n= bsp; secure this data.  Additional performance metrics which may be of= use
  are also defined.

                  &n= bsp;                     =                      = ;                    

The IETF Secretariat<= br clear=3D"none">


=
_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/li= stinfo/ippm

______________________= _________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf= .org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
Confiden= tiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, including any attachm= ent(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or privileged information fr= om CAS, a division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you have re= ceived this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, copying,= distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strictly prohi= bited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the sender imme= diately by either replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600.

____________________________________________= ___
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org= /mailman/listinfo/ippm
_______________________________________________=
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/m= ailman/listinfo/ippm
____= ___________________________________________
ippm mailing = list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
------=_Part_5736259_2072012791.1625503961964-- From leibo@chinatelecom.cn Sun Jul 4 18:22:05 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BAD323A11B5 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 18:22:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qSZkiOnzKwpr for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 18:22:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.219]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF9D63A11B0 for ; Sun, 4 Jul 2021 18:22:00 -0700 (PDT) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.218:33648.66915482 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-219.142.69.78?logid-64390cf1c7f240a4850d69ad42b8c5a7 (unknown [172.18.0.218]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with SMTP id F2B3B2800AC; Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:21:58 +0800 (CST) X-189-SAVE-TO-SEND: 66040251@chinatelecom.cn Received: from ([172.18.0.218]) by app0025 with ESMTP id 64390cf1c7f240a4850d69ad42b8c5a7 for tpauly@apple.com; Mon Jul 5 09:21:57 2021 X-Transaction-ID: 64390cf1c7f240a4850d69ad42b8c5a7 X-filter-score: X-Real-From: leibo@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.218 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Sender: leibo@chinatelecom.cn Date: Mon, 5 Jul 2021 09:21:53 +0800 From: "leibo@chinatelecom.cn" To: tpauly Cc: ippm References: 956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com, <202107050913302970545@zte.com.cn> X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.2.16.188[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <202107050921536453358@chinatelecom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart046088841078_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Fw: Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 01:16:55 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart046088841078_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SSBzdXBwb3J0IGFkb3B0aW5nIHRoaXMgd29yayAoYXMgY28tYXV0aG9yKS4NCg0K5Y6f5aeL6YKu 5Lu2DQrlj5Hku7bkurrvvJpUb21teVBhdWx5DQrmlLbku7bkurrvvJpJRVRGIElQUE0gV0cgKGlw cG1AaWV0Zi5vcmcpOw0K5pelIOacnyDvvJoyMDIx5bm0MDfmnIgwMuaXpSAwMDo0OQ0K5Li7IOmi mCDvvJpbaXBwbV0gUmUtY2FsbCBmb3IgYWRvcHRpb246IGRyYWZ0LXhpYW8taXBwbS1pb2FtLWNv bmYtc3RhdGUNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f DQppcHBtIG1haWxpbmcgbGlzdA0KaXBwbUBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcv bWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9pcHBtDQoNCkhlbGxvIElQUE0sDQoNCkJhY2sgaW4gTm92ZW1iZXIs IHdlIGhhZCBhIGNhbGwgZm9yIGFkb3B0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC14aWFvLWlwcG0taW9hbS1jb25m LXN0YXRlIHRoYXQgbGVkIHRvIHNldmVyYWwgcXVlc3Rpb25zLCBhbmQgd2UgYXNrZWQgZm9yIHJl dmlzZWQgZHJhZnRzLg0KDQpXZeKAmXZlIGdvdHRlbiBzZXZlcmFsIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9ucywgc28g SWFuIGFuZCBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gcmUtc3RhcnQgdGhlIGFkb3B0aW9uIGNhbGwgdG8gZ2V0 IHBlb3BsZeKAmXMgaW5wdXQgb24gdGhlIGN1cnJlbnQgdmVyc2lvbi4NCg0KaHR0cHM6Ly9kYXRh dHJhY2tlci5pZXRmLm9yZy9kb2MvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC14aWFvLWlwcG0taW9hbS1jb25mLXN0YXRl LTEwDQoNClBsZWFzZSByZXZpZXcgdGhlIGRvY3VtZW50IGFuZCByZXBseSB0byB0aGUgbGlzdCB0 byBpbmRpY2F0ZSBpZiB5b3Ugc3VwcG9ydCBhZG9wdGluZyB0aGlzIHdvcmsgYnkgVGh1cnNkYXks IEp1bHkgMTUuDQoNCkJlc3QsDQpUb21teSAmIElhbg0KDQo= ------=_001_NextPart046088841078_=---- Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =0A
I support adopting this work (as co-author).


<= div class=3D"zMailSignContent">
=
=E5=8E=9F=E5=A7=8B=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC= =9ATommyPauly
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA=EF=BC=9AIETF IPPM = WG (ippm@ietf.org);
=E6=97=A5 =E6=9C=9F =EF=BC=9A<= span class=3D"">2021=E5=B9=B407=E6=9C=8802=E6=97=A5 00:49
=E4=B8=BB =E9=A2=98 =EF=BC=9A= [ippm] Re-call for adoption: d= raft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state
________= _______________________________________
ippm mailing list
= ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

Hello I= PPM,

Back in November,= we had a call for adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that = led to several questions, and we asked for revised drafts.

We=E2=80=99ve gotten several ne= w versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to get p= eople=E2=80=99s input on the current version.

http= s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10

Please review the= document and reply to the list to indicate if you support adopting this w= ork by Thursday, July 15.

Best,
Tommy &am= p; Ian


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Hi all,

We support the adoption of it.
= We have been paying attention to IOAM te= chnology. The content of this draft about&nbs= p;echo request/reply mechanisms is helpful to our MPLS and SR scenarios. 

Best Regards

Liu Chang
China Unicom
Email: liuc131@chinaunicom.cn
Phone: +8618601102572


---Original---
From: TommyPauly=0A=
Date: 2021-07-02 00:49=0A=
To: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: d=
raft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state
Hello IPPM,

Back in November, we had a call for = ;adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led&= nbsp;to several questions, and we asked for&n= bsp;revised drafts.

We=A1=AFve gotten several new versions, so Ia= n and I would like to re-start the = adoption call to get people=A1=AFs input on&n= bsp;the current version.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10&nb= sp;<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-stat= e-10>

Please review the document and reply to = the list to indicate if you support adop= ting this work by Thursday, July 15.

Best,
Tommy & Ian
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We will immediate= ly remove your information from send catalogue of our. --_000_d16ba8fdf85e4e19935907474d7ae39bM10HQML04hqcncintra_-- From nobody Tue Jul 6 20:22:17 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 55ECC3A1C7E for ; Tue, 6 Jul 2021 20:22:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.294 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.294 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.198, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bL0hg_IjC3km for ; 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Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:22:10 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Message-id: Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_B5972905-E147-40B4-A277-5C849C5C962C" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3681.0.2.1.2\)) Date: Tue, 06 Jul 2021 20:22:06 -0700 In-reply-to: <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> To: IETF IPPM WG References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3681.0.2.1.2) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-07_01:2021-07-06, 2021-07-07 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Side meeting for PDMv2 and HPKE X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 03:22:16 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_B5972905-E147-40B4-A277-5C849C5C962C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi IPPM, To help discuss the PDMv2 proposal, and clarify the use of HPKE, Nalini = has set up a side meeting during the IETF 111 week on Wednesday July 28 = at 18:00 UTC. Details are here: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/111sidemeetings = If you=E2=80=99re interested or have been engaging so far, I encourage = you to show up! Best, Tommy (as IPPM co-chair) > On Jul 1, 2021, at 10:44 AM, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com wrote: >=20 > IPPM, >=20 > Please do take a look at this draft. >=20 > I think that iOAM will need encryption as well. We have spent quite = a bit of time thinking over these issues. We even have 2 cryptographers = from Italy involved as co-authors. I want to do a side meeting where = we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would love to have = comments from the group on the list. >=20 > I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without = encryption. I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. > We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without = encryption, we do not wish to release. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > www.insidethestack.com > (831) 659-8360 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, = nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com = wrote:=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello IPPMers! >=20 > We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data. We feel that = this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption = of PDM. >=20 > We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > www.insidethestack.com > (831) 659-8360 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Forwarded Message ----- >=20 > From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" > To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid = ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael = Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins = ; Tommaso Pecorella = > Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 > Revision: 00 > Title: Encrypted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics = Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option > Document date: 2021-06-01 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header = embedded > in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as > a basis for measurements. As this data is sent in clear- text, this > may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information = for > subsequent attacks. This document defines PDMv2 which has a > lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to > secure this data. Additional performance metrics which may be of = use > are also defined. >=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_B5972905-E147-40B4-A277-5C849C5C962C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = IPPM,

To help = discuss the PDMv2 proposal, and clarify the use of HPKE, Nalini has set = up a side meeting during the IETF 111 week on Wednesday July 28 at 18:00 = UTC.

Details = are here:

https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/111sidemeetings

If you=E2=80=99= re interested or have been engaging so far, I encourage you to show = up!

Best,
Tommy (as IPPM co-chair)

On Jul 1, 2021, at 10:44 AM, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com wrote:

IPPM,

Please do take a look at = this draft.

I think that iOAM will need = encryption as well.   We have spent quite a bit of time = thinking over these issues.  We even have 2 cryptographers from = Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to do a side meeting = where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would love = to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world = without encryption.  I feel that we will become the attacker's best = friend.
We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM = but as I say, without encryption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360





On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, = nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com = <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote:





Hello IPPMers!

We have just = posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.   We feel that this is = an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption of = PDM.

We would appreciate any thoughts or = comments from the group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360






----- Forwarded = Message -----

From: = "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan = Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande = <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; Michael Ackermann = <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins = <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella = <tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it>
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, = 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification = for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt



A new version of I-D, = draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
has been = successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:        = draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2
Revision:    00
Title:        Encrypted IPv6 = Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination = Option
Document date:    2021-06-01
Group:        Individual = Submission
Pages:        = 16
URL:            = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txtStatus:        = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
Htmlized:      = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2

Abstract:
  = RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedded
  in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing = information as
  a basis for measurements.  As = this data is sent in clear- text, this
  may create = an opportunity for malicious actors to get information for
  subsequent attacks.  This document defines PDMv2 = which has a
  lightweight handshake (registration = procedure) and encryption to
  secure this = data.  Additional performance metrics which may be of use
  are also defined.

  =                     =                     =                     =                     =


The IETF Secretariat




_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

= --Apple-Mail=_B5972905-E147-40B4-A277-5C849C5C962C-- From nobody Wed Jul 7 00:18:06 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A6653A0D35 for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 00:18:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rJqMRK91Ul-k for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 00:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yb1-xb30.google.com (mail-yb1-xb30.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::b30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28B1B3A0D2D for ; Wed, 7 Jul 2021 00:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-yb1-xb30.google.com with SMTP id o139so1631371ybg.9 for ; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 00:17:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=RjNmuQyolhtg0pYCUU/otaxhNevY0Dp3V4VIf+tIRQQ=; b=j4kmOas2e40ve+LmoXgsnW5FvpZMzyUyTXEF16I3sPuQAXTEe/vhQtlo/j1qnZsOfw PxW0iux6ZBglr21Rcf97/9A+XP42DKbKPgRbxw9DQtqQ5RrJI60srb6PTeQ5VPiSkFVt UVlCD090f8sTp9OlFqG+XOcZ5YGAjti7y/4+r9W6USeaOmwuc5QUOMBznyv+yZ8k20U+ ijJkxgK19EpQ7P2Mf4cU457PXCNSbjB7rtz/30k106dz9zaluTyNC7kgmdu0+n4RS1mw KcAKMe4mCgvsmvBHLJhhUEwHRPcaXaBlsFWokr96AC28i2jhLFpq9Bx35Wkt99MdTsFD putg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=RjNmuQyolhtg0pYCUU/otaxhNevY0Dp3V4VIf+tIRQQ=; b=NtadWrI/4IySrx5+YAh9vi40f1EjSLxXBsd+DtbQlG0zk05YM+qYvso8LHCFqjZxsn biPDr2NjSjo4SRE/Wd/nzcbTpAlsL1aiFgcQ9GOUCXvHLc93f1vyXTwtPGNwns+QwMca nO3G1ZGs8x+HJD1Rxhk3UYZddDhgKYNJF3KSs3Pvdnl5wzSp2xz1Y4jEOc7IuuUSrDiC bbaJrxVCHqy5N7sBYY+WXTZuI36xVKd2wSaGVpTRHTtB4MGUHAB4FyZzHUgQjvV7jchp mm1B9YmXNTg1+tg3r5lcpXCeRLBJIX5kUqDDRoZj8uVBQJhGVjNnOVof1Y3oeeDHuNKg 6QZA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532rIodLIk+m++ccGJCSSw53zGE/1QLDZUWwTXMo0ayakUsHPTGg pxfDN9H1ORT9+J3Stg97fxVlPKIYQe95+0L/Vak= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxIiycWbhUaAmU+xYyxf7G+Ey+gKIL/N2W5VkRoQ7KykJZCe9SkVKlsxEnqlr+kf4Cxh0cEZje7yXR/HJ3oCoE= X-Received: by 2002:a25:9b08:: with SMTP id y8mr29469801ybn.417.1625642277245; Wed, 07 Jul 2021 00:17:57 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <4D7F4AD313D3FC43A053B309F97543CF0147CD0A59@njmtexg5.research.att.com> In-Reply-To: From: Shwetha Date: Wed, 7 Jul 2021 12:47:45 +0530 Message-ID: To: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" Cc: "MORTON, ALFRED C (AL)" , Tommy Pauly , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" , Benjamin Kaduk Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000007794c505c6835638" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Discussion on draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-integrity method 3 variant in @ietf110 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Jul 2021 07:18:04 -0000 --0000000000007794c505c6835638 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi All, A new version of the IOAM data integrity has been posted : https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-integr= ity-02 This addresses the feedback and discussion during IETF 110 and in this email thread: 1. Recommends one method for carrying data integrity for IOAM options. Other methods discussed are moved to Appendix. 2. Introduces asymmetric key based signing variant to it. 3. Adds IOAM data integrity option format and IANA considerations. 4. Updates overhead considerations to include sampling. Looking forward to continued discussion on this here and at the upcoming IPPM wg meeting. Thanks, Shwetha On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 3:52 PM Frank Brockners (fbrockne) < fbrockne@cisco.com> wrote: > Hi Al, > > > > Thanks much =E2=80=93 and I fully agree that we need to keep the deployme= nt and > associated cost aspects in mind when designing a solution for IOAM > data-fields integrity. We should also acknowledge that while integrity > protection might be considered important for some future deployment, > current uses of early implementations of IOAM or similar are in =E2=80=9C= limited > and isolated domains=E2=80=9D and they do well without an integrity prote= ction > solution. So we=E2=80=99re talking about a =E2=80=9Cniche=E2=80=9D for no= w, though one which might > become more important in the future if IOAM would get applied to =E2=80= =9Cnot so > trusted environments=E2=80=9D. We can expect integrity protection to add= a > non-negligible burden on a deployment =E2=80=93 hence we need to come up = with a > solution that is modular enough, so that operators and implementors can > choose how they cut the balance between =E2=80=9Cprotection=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Ccost=E2=80=9D. > > > > The =E2=80=9DPerformance and Diagnostic Metrics (PDM) team=E2=80=9D (Mich= ael, Nalini) > already reached out =E2=80=93 with the plan to investigate whether we can= =E2=80=99t create > a single solution which would cover PDM and IOAM =E2=80=93 something that= everyone > would for sure appreciate. > > > > Per your (great!) suggestion, I=E2=80=99m cc=E2=80=99ing Ben for any help= / pointers to > additional folks who might be interested in helping us design an adequate > solution. > > > > Thanks, Frank > > > > *From:* MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) > *Sent:* Samstag, 27. M=C3=A4rz 2021 18:38 > *To:* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) ; Tommy Pauly < > tpauly@apple.com>; Tommy Pauly ; Shwetha < > shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com> > *Cc:* IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > *Subject:* RE: [ippm] Discussion on > draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-integrity method 3 variant in @ietf110 > > > > Hi Frank, Tommy, and all, > > > > TL;DR: No solution, just trying to refine the problem statement and > suggestion to seek SEC advice. > > > > I haven=E2=80=99t followed the integrity discussions closely, but hearing= the > review of options at the IETF-110/IPPM session, and additional details fo= r > the options that Frank described below, it seems we could use some expert > advice. There is a perpetual tension between protection from various > attacks and the protocol performance achievable in practice, especially > when considering per-packet integrity. IOW, if the security measures drag > down too hard on performance, they won=E2=80=99t be used in practice. > > > > In a successful end-game, we will have balanced the (possibly increased) > risks inherent in the selected security measures with the practical > per-packet implementation (requiring high packet-per-second rates, wide > distribution, and other deployment needs). > > > > I=E2=80=99m a very interested spectator here, because we may need to solv= e this > problem again for packet streams used in high-capacity testing with > widespread deployment. > > > > So, advice in the form of a recommended solution to our particular proble= m > with an acceptable level of risk, from SEC-Dir, SEC-ADs, or elsewhere, > might help us winnow-down the choices. > > > > hope this helps, > > Al > > > > > > *From:* ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org ] *On > Behalf Of *Frank Brockners (fbrockne) > *Sent:* Saturday, March 27, 2021 10:54 AM > *To:* Tommy Pauly ; Tommy Pauly < > tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Shwetha > *Cc:* IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > *Subject:* Re: [ippm] Discussion on > draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-integrity method 3 variant in @ietf110 > > > > Hi Tommy, IPPM WG, > > > > We=E2=80=99ll look into the update after the Easter break. Before that, I= =E2=80=99d > greatly appreciate further input and thoughts on the preferred methods. > > > > In our IPPM WG meeting during IETF 110, you voiced a preference for Metho= d > 3 =E2=80=93 broken up into a =E2=80=9CMethod 3a =E2=80=93 with symmetric = key (the current Method > 3)=E2=80=9D and a =E2=80=9CMethod 3b =E2=80=93 with asymmetric keys=E2=80= =9D. > > > > Per the discussion, the Method 3 approach suffers from the challenges tha= t > one would need to provision a secret per packet, which is a significant > effort =E2=80=93 but provides for replay protection. Detecting whether a = secret has > already been used or not is detectable by the verifier. Method 4 also > provides for replay protection given that it also uses a secret per packe= t > and at the same time is to help the secret provisioning issue, given that > we=E2=80=99d only bootstrap a key generator on the nodes and would then l= everage > Key-IDs =E2=80=93 which makes =E2=80=9Csecrets per packet=E2=80=9D much m= ore manageable. > > > > Per the note above, during the WG discussion, a preference was voiced for > =E2=80=9CMethod 3=E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 but at the same time, asked for avoi= ding a secret per packet =E2=80=93 > but re-using the secret for multiple packets, e.g. defined by duration or > number of packets. How would we arrive at a solution for replay > protection in that case? > > Options we could consider include: > (a) Include the payload (or portions of the payload) into the signing > process, so that the signed IOAM data becomes unique and cannot be easily > re-used for future packets. > > (b) Include an additional =E2=80=9Cidentifier=E2=80=9D or =E2=80=9Cnonce= =E2=80=9D as part of the > IOAM-data, which would make the IOAM-data and thus the signature unique = =E2=80=93 > which could be checked and tracked by the verifiers. > > (c) ? any other options ? > > > > Thoughts? Opinions? Preferences? > > > > While evolving the design for Method3 (or better 3a and 3b), I=E2=80=99d = suggest > that we keep Method 4 on the table for now. > > > > Thanks, Frank > > > > *From:* Tommy Pauly > *Sent:* Freitag, 26. M=C3=A4rz 2021 21:58 > *To:* Tommy Pauly ; Shwetha < > shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) < > fbrockne@cisco.com> > *Cc:* IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) > *Subject:* Re: [ippm] Discussion on > draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-integrity method 3 variant in @ietf110 > > > > Just checking here=E2=80=94when could we expect an updated proposal for t= he > integrity document? Once we can converge on a set of approaches we like, = we > would like to get this prepared for a WG adoption. > > > > Best, > > Tommy > > > > On Mar 12, 2021, at 6:30 AM, Tommy Pauly < > tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote: > > > > Thanks, that=E2=80=99d be great to see the variants of Method 3 like that= ! > > > > Best, > > Tommy > > > > On Mar 8, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Shwetha wrote: > > > > My bad, it should be possible to reverse the process for validation and > retrieve the previous signature in the reverse order. We will update the > draft to have Method 3 with both symmetric/asymmetric variants. > > > > Thanks, > > Shwetha > > > > On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 7:07 AM Shwetha wrote= : > > During the session 1 of ippm at IETF 110, it was suggested to consider > introducing a variant of method 3 > in draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-integrity with asymmetric keys. > > > > > > When we were designing the methods to protect integrity of the entire IOA= M > data collected at each node, the node chains it's own node data with the > signature from the previous node and overwrites the signature: > > Trace signature =3D sign([Trace Signature || its node_data_list[x] hash]) > > > > In the symmetric key case this operation can be validated by reversing th= e > operation by the validator who has the shared secret from each node. > > However this will not work if nodes use their private keys to sign and > validator has the public key to validate as it can only validate but not > derive a specific node's signature to reverse the operation. > > > > So I think the space optimized method to overwrite the signature at each > node cannot be modified to use asymmetric keys easily. Will be happy to > discuss ideas to create a space optimized asymmetric key based solution. > > > > Thanks > > Shwetha > > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > > > --0000000000007794c505c6835638 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi All,

A new version of the IOAM data = integrity has been posted :
https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-integrity-02

This addresses the feedback and discussion during IET= F 110 and in this email thread:
1. Recommends one method for carr= ying data integrity for IOAM options. Other methods discussed are moved to = Appendix.
2. Introduces asymmetric=C2=A0key based signing variant= to it.
3. Adds IOAM data integrity option format and IANA consid= erations.
4. Updates overhead considerations to include sampling.=

Looking forward to continued discussion on this h= ere and at the upcoming IPPM wg meeting.

Thanks,
Shwetha

On Sun, Mar 28, 2021 at 3:52 PM Frank Brockners (fbro= ckne) <fbrockne@cisco.com> = wrote:

Hi Al,

=C2=A0

Thanks much =E2=80=93 and I fully agree that we need= to keep the deployment and associated cost aspects in mind when designing = a solution for IOAM data-fields integrity.=C2=A0 We should also acknowledge= that while integrity protection might be considered important for some future deployment, current uses of early implementation= s of IOAM or similar are in =E2=80=9Climited and isolated domains=E2=80=9D = and they do well without an integrity protection solution. So we=E2=80=99re= talking about a =E2=80=9Cniche=E2=80=9D for now, though one which might become more important in the future if IOAM would get applied to =E2=80=9C= not so trusted environments=E2=80=9D.=C2=A0 We can expect integrity protect= ion to add a non-negligible burden on a deployment =E2=80=93 hence we need = to come up with a solution that is modular enough, so that operators and implementors can choose how they cut the balance between =E2=80=9Cprot= ection=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9Ccost=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

The =E2=80=9DPerformance and Diagnostic Metrics (PDM= ) team=E2=80=9D (Michael, Nalini) already reached out =E2=80=93 with the pl= an to investigate whether we can=E2=80=99t create a single solution which w= ould cover PDM and IOAM =E2=80=93 something that everyone would for sure ap= preciate.

=C2=A0

Per your (great!) suggestion, I=E2=80=99m cc=E2=80= =99ing Ben for any help / pointers to additional folks who might be interes= ted in helping us design an adequate solution.

=C2=A0

Thanks, Frank

=C2=A0

From: MORTON, ALFRED C (AL) <acm@research.att.com> <= br> Sent: Samstag, 27. M=C3=A4rz 2021 18:38
To: Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>; Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>; To= mmy Pauly <tpauly@= apple.com>; Shwetha <shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <= ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: [ippm] Discussion on draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-int= egrity method 3 variant in @ietf110

=C2=A0

Hi Frank, Tommy, and all,

=C2=A0

TL;DR: No solution, just trying to refine the problem statement= and suggestion to seek SEC advice.

=C2=A0

I haven=E2=80=99t followed the integrity discussions closely, b= ut hearing the review of options at the IETF-110/IPPM session, and addition= al details for the options that Frank described below, it seems we could use some expert advice. There is a perpetual tension bet= ween protection from various attacks and the protocol performance achievabl= e in practice, especially when considering per-packet integrity. IOW, if th= e security measures drag down too hard on performance, they won=E2=80=99t be used in practice.=

=C2=A0

In a successful end-game, we will have balanced the (possibly i= ncreased) risks inherent in the selected security measures with the practic= al per-packet implementation (requiring high packet-per-second rates, wide distribution, and other deployment needs).

=C2=A0

I=E2=80=99m a very interested spectator here, because we may ne= ed to solve this problem again for packet streams used in high-capacity tes= ting with widespread deployment.

=C2=A0

So, advice in the form of a recommended solution to our particu= lar problem with an acceptable level of risk, from SEC-Dir, SEC-ADs, or els= ewhere, might help us winnow-down the choices.

=C2=A0

hope this helps,

Al

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: ippm [mailto:ippm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Frank Brockners (fbrockne)
Sent: Saturday, March 27, 2021 10:54 AM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>; Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ie= tf.org>; Shwetha <shwetha.bhandari@gmail.com>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <= ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Discussion on draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-int= egrity method 3 variant in @ietf110

=C2=A0

Hi Tommy, IPPM WG,

=C2=A0

We=E2=80=99ll look into the update after the Easter = break. Before that, I=E2=80=99d greatly appreciate further input and though= ts on the preferred methods.

=C2=A0

In our IPPM WG meeting during IETF 110, you voiced a= preference for Method 3 =E2=80=93 broken up into a =E2=80=9CMethod 3a =E2= =80=93 with symmetric key (the current Method 3)=E2=80=9D and a =E2=80=9CMe= thod 3b =E2=80=93 with asymmetric keys=E2=80=9D.

=C2=A0

Per the discussion, the Method 3 approach suffers fr= om the challenges that one would need to provision a secret per packet, whi= ch is a significant effort =E2=80=93 but provides for replay protection. De= tecting whether a secret has already been used or not is detectable by the verifier. Method 4 also provides for repl= ay protection given that it also uses a secret per packet and at the same t= ime is to help the secret provisioning issue, given that we=E2=80=99d only = bootstrap a key generator on the nodes and would then leverage Key-IDs =E2=80=93 which makes =E2=80=9Csecrets per pac= ket=E2=80=9D much more manageable.

=C2=A0

Per the note above= , during the WG discussion, a preference was voiced for =E2=80=9CMethod 3= =E2=80=9D =E2=80=93 but at the same time, asked for avoiding a secret per p= acket =E2=80=93 but re-using the secret for multiple packets, e.g. defined by duration or number of packets. How would w= e arrive at a solution for replay protection in that case?

Options we could consider include:
(a) Include the payload (or portions of the payload) into the signing proce= ss, so that the signed IOAM data becomes unique and cannot be easily re-use= d for future packets.

(b) Include an additional =E2=80=9Cidentifier=E2=80= =9D or =E2=80=9Cnonce=E2=80=9D as part of the IOAM-data, which would make t= he IOAM-data and thus the signature unique =E2=80=93 which could be checked= and tracked by the verifiers.

(c) ? any other options ?

=C2=A0

Thoughts? Opinions? Preferences?

=C2=A0

While evolving the design for Method3 (or better 3a = and 3b), I=E2=80=99d suggest that we keep Method 4 on the table for now.=

=C2=A0

Thanks, Frank

=C2=A0

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Freitag, 26. M=C3=A4rz 2021 21:58
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; Shwet= ha <shwe= tha.bhandari@gmail.com>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
Cc: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <= ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Discussion on draft-brockners-ippm-ioam-data-int= egrity method 3 variant in @ietf110

=C2=A0

Just checking here=E2=80=94when could we expect an u= pdated proposal for the integrity document? Once we can converge on a set o= f approaches we like, we would like to get this prepared for a WG adoption.=

=C2=A0

Best,

Tommy

=C2=A0

On Mar 12, 2021, at 6:30 AM, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D= 40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

=C2=A0

Thanks, that=E2=80=99d be great to see the variants = of Method 3 like that!

=C2=A0

Best,

Tommy

=C2=A0

On Mar 8, 2021, at 8:31 PM, Shwetha <shwetha.bhandari@gmail.= com> wrote:

=C2=A0

= My bad, it should be possible to reverse the process for validation and ret= rieve the previous signature in the reverse order. We will update the draft= to have Method 3 with both symmetric/asymmetric variants.

=C2=A0

= Thanks,

= Shwetha

=C2=A0

On Tue, Mar 9, 2021 at 7:07 AM Shwetha <shwetha.bhandari@g= mail.com> wrote:

During the session 1 of ippm at IETF 110, it was sug= gested to consider introducing a variant of method 3 in=C2=A0=C2=A0draft-br= ockners-ippm-ioam-data-integrity=C2=A0with asymmetric keys.

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

When we were design= ing the methods to protect integrity of the entire IOAM data collected at e= ach node, the node chains it's own node data with the signature from th= e previous node and overwrites the signature:

Trace signature =3D= sign([Trace=C2=A0Signature=C2=A0||= its node_data_list[x] hash])

=C2=A0

In the symmetric ke= y case this operation can be validated by reversing the operation by the va= lidator who has the shared secret from each node.

However this will n= ot work if nodes use their private keys to sign and validator has the publi= c key to validate as it can only validate but not derive a specific node= 9;s signature to reverse the operation.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

So I think the spac= e optimized=C2=A0 method to overwrite the signature at each node cannot be = modified to use asymmetric keys easily. Will be happy to discuss ideas to c= reate a space optimized asymmetric key based solution.

=C2=A0

Thanks

Shwetha

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm<= u>

=C2=A0

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm<= u>

=C2=A0

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Yes, encryption will add some delays to the PDM processing. In = particular we expect delays in the following points: - Encryption and decryption time - Packet transmission - Key renewal - Registration phase time Encryption and decryption time shouldn=E2=80=99t be a major concern = since PDMv2 is an end-to-end header, and we assume that end devices will = have enough processing power. Moreover, the data to encrypt is small and = fixed-length. Hence, the encryption can be considered as a = near-constant-time operation (caveats apply, we=E2=80=99ll discuss about = them in the presentation).=20 Packet transmission (encrypted headers are larger) can be taken into = account as well, as the size is known in advance. Key renewal can be optimized, so that it doesn=E2=80=99t affect the = packet processing time. Registration phase is a one-time phase that should happen very = infrequently, and it is not going to affect the actual PDMv2 packet = flow. We do not expect any other significant points of time degradation due to = encryption and decryption. Of course we might find something we don=E2=80=99= t expect, and that=E2=80=99s why we always welcome comments and = suggestions. Last but not least, even if Encryption is important (for confidentiality = and integrity), we want to stress that encryption is optional. If the network administrator can be reasonably sure that an attacker can = not leverage PDMv2 headers to build an attack on the infrastructure, = then encryption can be skipped. In the RFC we will fully describe why confidentiality and integrity are = important, what kind of attacks we foresee if the headers are not = protected, and what countermeasures the network administrator can use as = a substitute of header encryption. Best regards, Tommaso and Adnan > On 5 Jul 2021, at 18:52, Ameya Deshpande = wrote: >=20 > Hi Paolo, >=20 > Thanks for your comments. Please check the inline reply. >=20 > > Also, I assume that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. = hosts instead of routers). If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t = expect that the performance degradation due to encryption is a serious = issue. Do you see other different cases where instead degradation may be = a concern?=20 >=20 > When using encrypted PDMv2, we have a bigger packet to send as > the size of encrypted data is more than the corresponding plaintext = data. > This can increase the timing slightly as the packet size has = increased. >=20 > For using encrypted PDMv2, we have an initial registration phase where > we negotiate the shared secret (using KEM). We have also given a = registration > mechanism for enterprises with many servers and clients. However, this = will > be done before transmitting PDMv2 packets. >=20 > We intend to have a side-meeting where we will explain HPKE and be = able > to thoroughly discuss these points. When we are able to schedule it, = we will > let you know. The registration to schedule side meetings has not yet = opened. >=20 > Thanks, > Ameya Deshpande > On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 10:19:21 pm IST, Ameya Deshpande = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Robert, >=20 > Thanks for your comments. Please check the inline comments. >=20 > > - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some = time before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I = suspect that makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for = _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in = more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method concerns.=20= >=20 > We have kept an option for no-encryption in PDMv2 as well. And it is = kept exactly for > the same reason you mentioned. Connections over encrypted medium (say = VPN tunnels), > link-local network, or any secured company domain can choose to use = PDMv2 unencrypted. >=20 > > - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we = want that to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was = very granular, so this will add a variable amount of time to the time = the packet is determined to be spending in transmission; the encryption = delay is now part of the transmission time. >=20 > Yes, for a PDM-to-PDM machine, the round trip time, a.k.a DELTATLS, = will include the two encryption > and two decryption times. We are trying our best to minimize any added = timing due to the encryption > in PDMv2, but we feel that encryption is important, so we're trying to = achieve a correct balance. >=20 > Thanks, > Ameya Deshpande >=20 > On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 9:57:51 pm IST, = nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com = wrote: >=20 >=20 > Hi Robert, > [Posting for some of the co-authors.] > We fully agree with your concerns. However, we=E2=80=99re confident = that HPKE will reach the RFC status soon. Moreover, also other protocols = (e.g., MLS, see = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-06.txt = ) = are using it. > About HPKE itself, there are two different aspects to consider: HPKE = (as an architecture, API, etc.) and the cryptographic functions used by = HKPE. While HPKE is still in draft, the cryptographic functions are = well-known and proven. Hence, we don=E2=80=99t expect any concern = related to the encryption methods used by HPKE. > The fact that Tommy confirms that it is being implemented and deployed = reinforces our confidence on the fact that its availability is not going = to be a critical point. >=20 > In any case, we will take this point into consideration, as it is a = valid concern. >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Nalini, Tom, and Adnan >=20 > =20 >=20 >=20 > On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, Hamilton, Robert = wrote: >=20 >=20 > I am interested in the encryption of the PDM header, just because I've = done symmetric-key encryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorandom = obfuscation algorithms for key management. I see that we are interested = in using HPKE. I have just a few concerns: >=20 > - The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some = time before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I = suspect that makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for = _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in = more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method concerns. >=20 > - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want = that to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very = granular, so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the = packet is determined to be spending in transmission; the encryption = delay is now part of the transmission time. >=20 > Still reviewing; I'll be back with more thoughts. >=20 > R; >=20 >=20 > Rob Hamilton > Infrastructure Engineer > Chemical Abstracts Service >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: ippm > On = Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com = > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM > To: IETF IPPM WG > > Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org = > Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version Notification for = draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt >=20 > [Actual Sender is ippm-bounces@ietf.org = ] >=20 > IPPM, >=20 > Please do take a look at this draft. >=20 > I think that iOAM will need encryption as well. We have spent quite = a bit of time thinking over these issues. We even have 2 cryptographers = from Italy involved as co-authors. I want to do a side meeting where = we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would love to have = comments from the group on the list. >=20 > I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without = encryption. I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. > We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without = encryption, we do not wish to release. >=20 >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > = https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dww= w.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c= 97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55a= df702 = > (831) 659-8360 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, = nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com = = > wrote:=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Hello IPPMers! >=20 > We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data. We feel that = this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption = of PDM. >=20 > We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. >=20 > Thanks, >=20 > Nalini Elkins > CEO and Founder > Inside Products, Inc. > = https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/query?url=3Dww= w.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c82268e9d&auth=3D3c= 97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e2163fd0daaf45646c2a55a= df702 = > (831) 659-8360 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Forwarded Message ----- >=20 > From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org " = > > To: mackermann@bcbsm.com = >; Adnan Rashid = >; Ameya Deshpande = >; Michael Ackermann = >; Nalini Elkins = >; Tommaso Pecorella = > > Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT > Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt >=20 >=20 >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the > IETF repository. >=20 > Name: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 > Revision: 00 > Title: Encrypted IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics = Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option > Document date: 2021-06-01 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 16 > URL: = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt = = > Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ = > Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 = >=20 >=20 > Abstract: > RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header = embedded > in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as > a basis for measurements. As this data is sent in clear- text, this > may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information = for > subsequent attacks. This document defines PDMv2 which has a > lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to > secure this data. Additional performance metrics which may be of = use > are also defined. >=20 > = =20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm = >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm = > Confidentiality Notice: This electronic message transmission, = including any attachment(s), may contain confidential, proprietary, or = privileged information from CAS, a division of the American Chemical = Society ("ACS"). If you have received this transmission in error, be = advised that any disclosure, copying, distribution, or use of the = contents of this information is strictly prohibited. Please destroy all = copies of the message and contact the sender immediately by either = replying to this message or calling 614-447-3600. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm = > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm = > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm = > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm -------------------------------------------------------------- When life gives you lemons, don=E2=80=99t make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back! Get mad! -- Cave Johnson -------------------------------------------------------------- Tommaso Pecorella - Ph.D. Assistant professor Dpt. Ingegneria dell'Informazione Universit=C3=A0 di Firenze CNIT - Universit=C3=A0 di Firenze Unit via di S. Marta 3 50139, Firenze ITALY email: tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it tommaso.pecorella@cnit.it phone : +39-055-2758540 mobile: +39-320-4379803 fax : +39-055-2758570 --Apple-Mail=_9F2B0B77-09E2-4FCC-AAD3-71953B66680C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = all,

I=E2=80=99d = like to share my 2cents on some points that have been mentioned about = encryption use in PDMv2.

Yes, encryption will add some delays to the PDM processing. = In particular we expect delays in the following points:
- Encryption and decryption time
- = Packet transmission
- Key renewal
- Registration phase time

Encryption and decryption time = shouldn=E2=80=99t be a major concern since PDMv2 is an end-to-end = header, and we assume that end devices will have enough processing = power. Moreover, the data to encrypt is small and fixed-length. Hence, = the encryption can be considered as a near-constant-time operation = (caveats apply, we=E2=80=99ll discuss about them in the = presentation). 

Packet transmission (encrypted headers are larger) can be = taken into account as well, as the size is known in advance.

Key renewal can be = optimized, so that it doesn=E2=80=99t affect the packet processing = time.

Registration phase is a one-time phase that should happen = very infrequently, and it is not going to affect the actual PDMv2 packet = flow.

We do = not expect any other significant points of time degradation due to = encryption and decryption. Of course we might find something we don=E2=80=99= t expect, and that=E2=80=99s why we always welcome comments and = suggestions.

Last but not least, even if Encryption is important (for = confidentiality and integrity), we want to stress that encryption is = optional.
If the network administrator can be = reasonably sure that an attacker can not leverage PDMv2 headers to build = an attack on the infrastructure, then encryption can be = skipped.

In = the RFC we will fully describe why confidentiality and integrity are = important, what kind of attacks we foresee if the headers are not = protected, and what countermeasures the network administrator can use as = a substitute of header encryption.

Best regards,

Tommaso and Adnan



On 5 Jul 2021, at 18:52, Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd=3D40yahoo.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hi Paolo,

Thanks for your comments. Please check the inline = reply.

>=20 Also,  I assume that PDMv2 is mainly used by end stations (e.g. = hosts=20 instead of routers). If this is the case, then I don=E2=80=99t expect = that the=20 performance degradation due to encryption is a serious issue. Do you see other different cases where instead degradation may be a concern?

When using encrypted PDMv2, we have a bigger packet to send = as
the size of encrypted data is more than the = corresponding plaintext data.
This can increase the = timing slightly as the packet size has increased.

For using encrypted = PDMv2, we have an initial registration phase where
we= negotiate the shared secret (using KEM). We have also given a = registration
mechanism for enterprises with many = servers and clients. However, this will
be done = before transmitting PDMv2 packets.

We intend to have a side-meeting where = we will explain HPKE and be able
to thoroughly = discuss these points.  When we are able to schedule it, we = will
let you know.  The registration to = schedule side meetings has not yet opened.

Thanks,
Ameya Deshpande
=20
=20
On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 10:19:21 pm IST, Ameya = Deshpande <ameyanrd=3D40yahoo.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


Hi Robert,

Thanks for your comments. Please check = the inline comments.

>=20 -=20 The latest HPKE draft expired just last week. That means it's some time=20= before general implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect=20 that makes it even longer before I'll see implementation for=20 _production_ use. Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in=20 more secure environments delayed because of encryption-method = concerns.

We have kept an option = for no-encryption in PDMv2 as well. And it is kept exactly for
the same reason you = mentioned. Connections over encrypted medium (say VPN = tunnels),
link-local network, or any secured = company domain can choose to use PDMv2 unencrypted.

>=20 - When we generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want=20= that to be as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very=20 granular, so this will add a variable amount of time to the time the=20 packet is determined to be spending in transmission; the encryption=20 delay is now part of the transmission time.

Yes, for a PDM-to-PDM = machine, the round trip time, a.k.a DELTATLS, will include the two = encryption
and two decryption times. We are trying = our best to minimize any added timing due to the encryption
in PDMv2, = but we feel that encryption is important, so we're trying to achieve a = correct balance.

Thanks,
Ameya Deshpande

=20
=20
On Monday, 5 July, 2021, 9:57:51 pm IST, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote: 


Hi Robert,
[Posting for some of the =
co-authors.]
We fully agree with your concerns. However, =
we=E2=80=99re confident that HPKE will reach the RFC status soon. =
Moreover, also other protocols (e.g., MLS, see https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-mls-architecture-06.=
txt) are using it.
About HPKE itself, there are two different =
aspects to consider: HPKE (as an architecture, API, etc.) and the =
cryptographic functions used by HKPE. While HPKE is still in draft, the =
cryptographic functions are well-known and proven. Hence, we don=E2=80=99t=
 expect any concern related to the encryption methods used by =
HPKE.
The fact = that Tommy confirms that it is being implemented and deployed reinforces = our confidence on the fact that its availability is not going to be a = critical point.

In any = case, we will take this point into consideration, as it is a valid = concern.

Best = regards,

Nalini, = Tom, and Adnan

 


=20
=20
On Thursday, July 1, 2021, 02:05:31 PM PDT, = Hamilton, Robert <rhamilton=3D40cas.org@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


I am = interested in the encryption of the PDM header, just because I've done = symmetric-key encryption with pseudorandom numbers and pseudorandom = obfuscation algorithms for key management. I see that we are interested = in using HPKE. I have just a few concerns:

- The latest HPKE draft = expired just last week. That means it's some time before general = implementation. I'm a mainframer, mostly, so I suspect that makes it = even longer before I'll see implementation for _production_ use. = Further, I don't want the implementation of PDM in more secure = environments delayed because of encryption-method concerns.

- When we = generate the PDM structure and determine the timing, we want that to be = as close to the wire as possible. The PDM timing was very granular, so = this will add a variable amount of time to the time the packet is = determined to be spending in transmission; the encryption delay is now = part of the transmission time.

Still reviewing; I'll be back with more = thoughts.

R;

Rob Hamilton
Infrastructure Engineer
Chemical = Abstracts Service

-----Original Message-----
From: = ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 1:45 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Cc: draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2@ietf.org
Subject: [EXT] Re: [ippm] Fw: New Version = Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt

[Actual Sender = is ippm-bounces@ietf.org]

IPPM,

Please do take a look at this draft.

I think that = iOAM will need encryption as well.   We have spent quite a bit = of time thinking over these issues.  We even have 2 cryptographers = from Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but = would love to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very reluctant to push PDM = out to the wider world without encryption.  I feel that we will = become the attacker's best friend.
We have = modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without = encryption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/que= ry?url=3Dwww.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c822= 68e9d&auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e216= 3fd0daaf45646c2a55adf702
(831) = 659-8360






On= Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote:





Hello IPPMers!

We have just posted a new draft = to encrypt PDM data.   We feel that this is an important = feature to add before promoting widespread adoption of PDM.

We would = appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group.

Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, = Inc.
https://smex12-5-en-ctp.trendmicro.com:443/wis/clicktime/v1/que= ry?url=3Dwww.insidethestack.com&umid=3D61654d20-9615-453c-80b2-c06c822= 68e9d&auth=3D3c97381e9a30865a1a3f3ad58750d85b2b059558-86a3cb083390e216= 3fd0daaf45646c2a55adf702
(831) = 659-8360






----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com = <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Adnan Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.com>; = Michael Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins <nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella = <tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it>
Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt



A new version of I-D, = draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
has = been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:    =     draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2
Revision:    00
Title:        Encrypted IPv6 = Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination = Option
Document date:    = 2021-06-01
Group:    =     Individual Submission
Pages:        16
URL:            = https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdm= v2-00.txt
Status:      =   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pd= mv2/
Htmlized:      https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypt= ed-pdmv2


Abstract:
  RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) = header embedded
  in each packet to = provide sequence numbers and timing information as
  a basis for measurements.  As this data is sent = in clear- text, this
  may create an = opportunity for malicious actors to get information for
  subsequent attacks.  This document defines PDMv2 = which has a
  lightweight handshake = (registration procedure) and encryption to
  secure this data.  Additional performance metrics = which may be of use
  are also = defined.

 =                     =                     =                     =                     =


The IETF Secretariat



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Confidentiality Notice: This electronic = message transmission, including any attachment(s), may contain = confidential, proprietary, or privileged information from CAS, a = division of the American Chemical Society ("ACS"). If you have received = this transmission in error, be advised that any disclosure, copying, = distribution, or use of the contents of this information is strictly = prohibited. Please destroy all copies of the message and contact the = sender immediately by either replying to this message or calling = 614-447-3600.

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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

--------------------------------------------------------------<= /font>


When life gives you lemons, don=E2=80=99t = make lemonade.
Make life take the lemons back! Get = mad!
-- Cave Johnson

--------------------------------------------------------------<= /font>

Tommaso Pecorella - = Ph.D.

Assistant = professor
Dpt. Ingegneria = dell'Informazione
Universit=C3=A0 di Firenze

CNIT - Universit=C3=A0 = di Firenze Unit

via di = S. Marta 3
50139, = Firenze
ITALY

email: tommaso.pecorella@unifi.it
       tommaso.pecorella@cnit.it

phone : = +39-055-2758540
mobile: +39-320-4379803
fax   : +39-055-2758570









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--=====_003_next===== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Support the adoption. Thanks, Sandy ------------------原始邮件------------------ 发件人：TommyPauly 收件人：IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org); 日 期 ：2021年07月02日 00:49 主 题 ：[ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Hello IPPM, Back in November, we had a call for adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we asked for revised drafts. We’ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to get people’s input on the current version. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15. 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boundary="_000_BY3PR13MB4787FF752DD19D3AFD114E169A189BY3PR13MB4787namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: c24db448-e97c-4cae-e233-08d94308390c X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jul 2021 18:34:44.4893 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: yfRJRDb1mQWkxnBFEcb4qg3VC9VXo0bRyUH5IxRHnkp1qp5kgCOInW17y/8/PBXRInyu3aWity5FFc6JnF5CnQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR13MB2486 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2021 18:34:54 -0000 --_000_BY3PR13MB4787FF752DD19D3AFD114E169A189BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear IPPM chairs, Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG adopt= ion call? Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to pres= ent the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much! Best regards, Haoyu From: Haoyu Song Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM To: Tommy Pauly Cc: IPPM Chairs ; IETF IPPM WG ; draft= -song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption Hi Tommy, I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the draft= indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas of the= related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the core = of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if cons= idered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft i= s about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collect= ion. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and = HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete the ecosys= tem for on-path telemetry. I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the WG and= to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks! Best regards, Haoyu From: Tommy Pauly > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM To: Haoyu Song > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF I= PPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-base= d-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption Hi Haoyu, Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several previous m= eetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that is a= lready concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say that its c= ontent should be in other drafts (as has been done). Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion of th= e content. Best, Tommy On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song > wrote: Dear IPPM Chairs, I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft "Postcard-b= ased On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/<= https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra= cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry%2F&data=3D04= %7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fe= e8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783193667%7CUnknown%7CTWFp= bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%= 7C1000&sdata=3D%2FA57w%2FrWm3TXoEvBCcHT2IPQQJi%2BrcgQwlTvs18EX48%3D&reserve= d=3D0> Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, Hua= wei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking complem= ents the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem compl= ete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For example, th= e PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6man-spring-s= rv6-oam" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms s= uch as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there.= Given the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we b= elieve it's necessary to have a document to formalized the method. The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was published = in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. One was= latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has been= adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the co= re of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks = from the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively matu= re content. Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request the WG= to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestions. = Thank you very much for your consideration! Best regards, Haoyu --_000_BY3PR13MB4787FF752DD19D3AFD114E169A189BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear IPPM chairs,

 

Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the = criteria for a WG adoption call?

Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG= meeting for me to present the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very m= uch!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Haoyu Song
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@= ietf.org>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption

 

Hi Tommy,

 

I think here I need to give some clarification. One = the one hand, the draft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the = high level ideas of the related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), bu= t this is not the core of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if considered impro= per in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft is about the = approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collection. In this= sense, it’s an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and HTS. I believe they are equally important and ne= eded to complete the ecosystem for on-path telemetry.

 

I would also like to take this chance to seek more f= eedback from the WG and to see the level of interest and support on this wo= rk. Thanks!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu= .song@futurewei.com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-cha= irs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>; draft-= song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption

 

Hi Haoyu,

 

Thanks for bringing this up again. As we’ve di= scussed in several previous meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level = description of work that is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I = am inclined to say that its content should be in other drafts (as has been done).

 

Any adoption call would need to be predicated on mor= e list discussion of the content.

 

Best,

Tommy

 

On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote= :

 

Dear IPPM Chairs,

 

I’m writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt th= e following draft “Postcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using P= acket Marking”

 

Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagu= es from Cisco, ZTE, Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor th= is work.

As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on= packet marking complements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to m= ake the ecosystem complete, and I believe each can find its application sce= narios. For example, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in “draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-o= am” (https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms such= as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. Gi= ven the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we beli= eve it’s necessary to have a  document to formalized the method.

 

The draft has undergone a long line of developments = since it was published in 2018. It originally covers two related but differ= ent techniques. One was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, I= OAM DEX, which has been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the core of the c= urrent draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks from the WG= , we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively mature content.=

 

Given the community interest and the technical merit= , we now request the WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it.=

Please let us know if there are any concerns, commen= ts, and suggestions.   Thank you very much for your consideration= !  

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

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Fri, 09 Jul 2021 13:44:23 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_1E9E85E4-31C6-4D23-A044-CEEC30A6791F" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.80.0.2.6\)) Message-id: <1218C231-F87E-4970-926B-26962A77F67B@apple.com> Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2021 13:44:22 -0700 To: IETF IPPM WG X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.80.0.2.6) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-09_15:2021-07-09, 2021-07-09 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Draft IPPM agenda for IETF 111 posted X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2021 20:44:26 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_1E9E85E4-31C6-4D23-A044-CEEC30A6791F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello IPPM, We=E2=80=99ve posted the initial IETF 111 meeting agenda: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/materials/agenda-111-ippm-00 = Best, Tommy & Ian= --Apple-Mail=_1E9E85E4-31C6-4D23-A044-CEEC30A6791F Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello= IPPM,

We=E2=80=99ve = posted the initial IETF 111 meeting agenda: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/materials/agenda-111-i= ppm-00

Best,
Tommy & = Ian
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Fri, 9 Jul 2021 22:49:58 +0000 From: Haoyu Song To: Tommy Pauly CC: IPPM Chairs , IETF IPPM WG , "draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Request for WG adoption Thread-Index: Addt1c+1WBY/cdcRSfGA5wbarzJ+TgAxGw0AAADONxABlMhIkAAI4rdg Date: Fri, 9 Jul 2021 22:49:58 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0CFF75C4-3142-46A2-838C-27B79A36D794@apple.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: apple.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;apple.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 07c00097-36d1-48a3-bbce-08d9432be10e x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR13MB4247: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BY3PR13MB4787A5AD441B628A181EC23C9A189BY3PR13MB4787namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 07c00097-36d1-48a3-bbce-08d9432be10e X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 09 Jul 2021 22:49:58.6447 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 9ItAWaV8jP8xhNN8mP5yeX26Cdju9VEZ4x293GZOnetbjJOhGh4bBnhH3PwnRH8uCRoysUbV1I9+t2zcNVKbEA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BYAPR13MB4247 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Jul 2021 22:50:08 -0000 --_000_BY3PR13MB4787A5AD441B628A181EC23C9A189BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear IPPM chairs, We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/10/. In this draft we focus onl= y on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss its own challenges and solutions. We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other schemes currently in th= e WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be considered as well. Than= k you very much for your consideration! Best regards, Haoyu From: Haoyu Song Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM To: Tommy Pauly Cc: IPPM Chairs ; IETF IPPM WG ; draft= -song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption Dear IPPM chairs, Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG adopt= ion call? Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to pres= ent the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much! Best regards, Haoyu From: Haoyu Song Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM To: Tommy Pauly > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF I= PPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-base= d-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption Hi Tommy, I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the draft= indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas of the= related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the core = of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if cons= idered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft i= s about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collect= ion. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and = HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete the ecosys= tem for on-path telemetry. I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the WG and= to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks! Best regards, Haoyu From: Tommy Pauly > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM To: Haoyu Song > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF I= PPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-base= d-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption Hi Haoyu, Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several previous m= eetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that is a= lready concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say that its c= ontent should be in other drafts (as has been done). Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion of th= e content. Best, Tommy On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song > wrote: Dear IPPM Chairs, I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft "Postcard-b= ased On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/<= https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra= cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry%2F&data=3D04= %7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fe= e8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783193667%7CUnknown%7CTWFp= bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%= 7C1000&sdata=3D%2FA57w%2FrWm3TXoEvBCcHT2IPQQJi%2BrcgQwlTvs18EX48%3D&reserve= d=3D0> Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, Hua= wei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking complem= ents the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem compl= ete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For example, th= e PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6man-spring-s= rv6-oam" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms s= uch as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there.= Given the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we b= elieve it's necessary to have a document to formalized the method. The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was published = in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. One was= latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has been= adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the co= re of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks = from the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively matu= re content. Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request the WG= to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestions. = Thank you very much for your consideration! Best regards, Haoyu --_000_BY3PR13MB4787A5AD441B628A181EC23C9A189BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear IPPM chairs,

 

We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/1= 0/. In this draft we focus only on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss = its own challenges and solutions.

We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other = schemes currently in the WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be c= onsidered as well. Thank you very much for your consideration!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Haoyu Song
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@= ietf.org>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption

 

Dear IPPM chairs,

 

Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the = criteria for a WG adoption call?

Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG= meeting for me to present the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very m= uch!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Haoyu Song
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple= .com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-cha= irs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>; draft-= song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption

 

Hi Tommy,

 

I think here I need to give some clarification. One = the one hand, the draft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the = high level ideas of the related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), bu= t this is not the core of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if considered impro= per in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft is about the = approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collection. In this= sense, it’s an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and HTS. I believe they are equally important and ne= eded to complete the ecosystem for on-path telemetry.

 

I would also like to take this chance to seek more f= eedback from the WG and to see the level of interest and support on this wo= rk. Thanks!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu= .song@futurewei.com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-cha= irs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>; draft-= song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption

 

Hi Haoyu,

 

Thanks for bringing this up again. As we’ve di= scussed in several previous meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level = description of work that is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I = am inclined to say that its content should be in other drafts (as has been done).

 

Any adoption call would need to be predicated on mor= e list discussion of the content.

 

Best,

Tommy

 

On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote= :

 

Dear IPPM Chairs,

 

I’m writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt th= e following draft “Postcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using P= acket Marking”

 

Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagu= es from Cisco, ZTE, Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor th= is work.

As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on= packet marking complements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to m= ake the ecosystem complete, and I believe each can find its application sce= narios. For example, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in “draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-o= am” (https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms such= as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. Gi= ven the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we beli= eve it’s necessary to have a  document to formalized the method.

 

The draft has undergone a long line of developments = since it was published in 2018. It originally covers two related but differ= ent techniques. One was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, I= OAM DEX, which has been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the core of the c= urrent draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks from the WG= , we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively mature content.=

 

Given the community interest and the technical merit= , we now request the WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it.=

Please let us know if there are any concerns, commen= ts, and suggestions.   Thank you very much for your consideration= !  

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

--_000_BY3PR13MB4787A5AD441B628A181EC23C9A189BY3PR13MB4787namp_-- From nobody Sun Jul 11 19:11:58 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7461B3A2936; Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:11:56 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162605591640.15875.14307632477418005742@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2021 19:11:56 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-yang-01.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 02:11:57 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : A YANG Data Model for In-Situ OAM Authors : Tianran Zhou Jim Guichard Frank Brockners Srihari Raghavan Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-yang-01.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2021-07-11 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records operational and telemetry information in user packets while the packets traverse a path between two points in the network. This document defines a YANG module for the IOAM function. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-yang/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-yang-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-yang-01 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 12 03:34:15 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 21D823A125D; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 03:34:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162608605008.16310.9661222365498076212@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 03:34:10 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:34:10 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : In-situ OAM Direct Exporting Authors : Haoyu Song Barak Gafni Tianran Zhou Zhenbin Li Frank Brockners Shwetha Bhandari Ramesh Sivakolundu Tal Mizrahi Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-05.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces a new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported or locally aggregated without being pushed into in-flight data packets. The exporting method and format are outside the scope of this document. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 12 03:45:40 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D69013A13F5; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 03:45:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7Yp77flfMlgu; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 03:45:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x335.google.com (mail-wm1-x335.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::335]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BA8F3A14A2; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 03:45:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x335.google.com with SMTP id k32so7875292wms.4; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 03:45:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=Kf9AFEiAqJqVYSBKfvpqGZRrW3z6DQlGxnhBbuj/WLo=; b=WSAmg08s/0gsntHcEKXkClK9KwqpPitVctVP4QxlKpamhP3Q9D0jasgBEY9wkc9feQ m2agYgo+DnHipMBiHfEKK9WDoRf9844qGp3BiQCYgJ/wMigeu5NT0GF7H+aVGbOHBJnp /4ss70VrsM4hmmk8PC3YP4zonuF2/8pZzWMscnOc9EHDo6oH7ovUbbiZU2SxHF4ZkNmO YE/Lf4SxcWB4LBBxUGzDFOVQZk1Z9Gk2gNiox1LSUnlJUlbZAjKtjM/v91tp0rnZt6cn R/mk7g39E2PnUyuiaZar51+/+r0xC7DdiZfPYxmsdzoTnkEhfc9wHKViwjcdJggVbNPf Idvw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=Kf9AFEiAqJqVYSBKfvpqGZRrW3z6DQlGxnhBbuj/WLo=; b=bAzBRJOwS3EnLyGDYJJhweSHXHwlsCuxGcN9GA865R6vDXGA3KSfoehvkMbAIeaCta vreqDR0Hi0hpKr3vBRKJMZtPbKQ+hjEKAeuKBV+u+y0/8SOrtruXnMIhF3kGhBvGOEDt coK76qAE9gAkSPsVLWbS9rVGxyumroEho6CCaZFtPjdoWDBrRRbw9GqG+Yh6fvGZjQ+t SdAzBdgtPmtm5RnOiowLTKWnK6DTeU3TU+yjEVDHwnGcd0asovODHeK27E+m+bX1QdyW Wvp6wmVndPsSKEx4gTgaDASqMGEib7MfpBPlEXBcl+xxRqEMjCnUiuUTPvc7XPugMiCz JCRg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530XzQJIeg6Rl0EsW42UnG356CkAreebSoTpnu/6+3nvDRYEhdxy WGovAYBU2tOTYkUpLgjEKYMQ9bPpGYW2Yri7HmU= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzgitiOoMZN2h+1XuDg47NhAj/plv0BO2RfaAsd6hfPv05McgSWmr6WOYqpL0AFbdYp4XLAe1MSDxFvPDxuJko= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:2c43:: with SMTP id s64mr12298423wms.9.1626086721131; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 03:45:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162514156275.10687.5210311195217579136@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 13:45:10 +0300 Message-ID: To: Martin Duke , IETF IPPM WG Cc: IPPM Chairs , Mirja Kuehlewind , draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] DEX Draft Updated X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 10:45:40 -0000 Hi, An updated version of the draft has been posted. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-05 Martin, Many thanks for your comments below. These comments have been addressed in this version of the draft. If there are no further comments about the security-related content, we plan to apply similar changes to the flag draft, namely consisting of the following components to mitigate the security issues of the loopback flag: - Selective loopback trigger for a small fraction of the traffic at IOAM encapsulating nodes. - Rate limiting of loopback response at IOAM transit nodes. - Avoid encapsulating IOAM-with-loopback to exported / looped back packets. These are (similar to) the main components we added to the DEX draft, and we believe they are relevant to the loopback flag. Cheers, Tal. On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:16 PM Martin Duke wrote: > > Hi Tal, > > Thanks for the changes. Some comments on the diff: > > (3.1.2) - "The rate of exported packets SHOULD be limited so that the number of exported > packets is significantly lower than the number of packets that are exported by the device." > > I think there's a typo here? s/exported/received in the second instance? > > - s/SHOULD not/SHOULD NOT > > - "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulating > nodes that push a DEX option into traversing packets MUST avoid > pushing an IOAM header into IOAM exported packets." > > but the DEX format is undefined, so I don't know how they could possibly meet this requirement in the general case. Instead, perhaps > "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulation nodes that can identify a packet as an IOAM direct export MUST NOT insert a DEX option in those packets" > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:54 AM Tal Mizrahi wrote: >> >> Hi, >> >> The draft was significantly revised (see links below) following the >> security-related feedback from the last IETF meeting, and based on >> further discussion that were held at the IOAM design team meetings. >> >> Thanks again, Martin and Mirja, for your feedback. >> >> The main changes compared to the previous version: >> - Two sections were added, "DEX Packet Selection", and "Responding to >> the DEX Trigger". These two sections are specifically intended to >> address Martin's feedback regarding amplification attacks. >> - New requirements were added to the security consideration section in >> response to the comments in the last IETF meeting: >> - Selective DEX at IOAM encapsulating nodes - in response to >> Martin's comments. >> and >> - Rate limiting at IOAM transit nodes - in response to Martin's comments. >> >> - Avoid pushing the DEX option onto exported packets - in response >> to Martin's comments. >> >> - Only export to trusted nodes - in response to Mirja's comments. >> >> Please let us know if there are further comments, and specifically >> regarding the security aspects of the draft. >> >> Cheers, >> Tal. >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 3:12 PM wrote: >> > >> > >> > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt >> > has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the >> > IETF repository. >> > >> > Name: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export >> > Revision: 04 >> > Title: In-situ OAM Direct Exporting >> > Document date: 2021-07-01 >> > Group: ippm >> > Pages: 12 >> > URL: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt >> > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ >> > Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export >> > Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04 >> > >> > Abstract: >> > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used >> > for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. >> > Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data >> > packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces a >> > new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which is >> > used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported or locally >> > aggregated without being pushed into in-flight data packets. The >> > exporting method and format are outside the scope of this document. >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > The IETF Secretariat >> > >> > From nobody Mon Jul 12 07:46:47 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 752FF3A1AD9; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:46:39 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162610119941.11527.1274204599359954796@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 07:46:39 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:46:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : A Connectivity Monitoring Metric for IPPM Author : Ruediger Geib Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: Within a Segment Routing domain, segment routed measurement packets can be sent along pre-determined paths. This enables new kinds of measurements. Connectivity monitoring allows to supervise the state and performance of a connection or a (sub)path from one or a few central monitoring systems. This document specifies a suitable type-P connectivity monitoring metric. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 12 08:13:48 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC49A3A1CD8; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:13:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y5-XXumFW7_l; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:13:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-il1-x129.google.com (mail-il1-x129.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::129]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E05F43A0D2B; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:13:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-il1-x129.google.com with SMTP id z1so19907783ils.0; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:13:41 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=QTaJLQn3c5HWIF0X0q233HMPDtQNckC8C87YC8xsgcE=; b=EtrKyqAgdAk+bLR0HlLJV54+GFlEe8KtxsBraZQs6e+Hy6OG3RlNUPH3dy56ezIndz E0tZEJ8VL7EC9WdFrRbyihGO8v0ZAumX4ptiG9Oi63RcrfWX3OJDze5VrYX+WSD1DzyC IObJdfA2yA3p6G8XddO9Y2Qn9ovgy7IezKyh0FrQ9clRgTaxksQtJ3zm/CvxIaW6Oz61 YljMzcmYuXONMYt7cdHvteSIUkjEhTKVUcuSAoorWxXKARqMWjfzY2Zu+LnVR9+xOHhW Es34RB0NNhZJ876JNNvRznP2pP7HGPOjExNZjuU3xRw0vw+g5uAd+Y1992yHFnjqcC5F Nc5A== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=QTaJLQn3c5HWIF0X0q233HMPDtQNckC8C87YC8xsgcE=; b=l4bgSgsx76JUyUxwtTRJwVZQ8V00SLPQ/kXOmrS5e+8eYGTLyT8pG4cUD11rIsRtlB X/NPmUi17xQzcvA8w4o78HEnDW4Db13nGXVgGIgdA6+rWqX1xk02JrMDx3AROOhI4Chk CS7j8fXyksH1SwCh0RxchcEwg0sPvA/EBMSzANo3gnZzA2KrgjY1sDjjVjgByV22H5ed ZmwKpxAqe8bS61SNuNE5HoS5J5ProbiIaAq9Hiw9NztPzkqki92z6nTC4Oq4Id9GCqLK AMEhc8eun7U9v0F7PcL1AaxPIIcjVP86+e2ky5Y8CVCYzp8mm/1CsrJposGRX7DLysnA /XDQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531DGXlqdp6htNnkxzs9V9q7tDZygVud/7aPUX4YGOzpQsviO/Ye 87WmXIv/PXrAHhH8rNe3EnU2A2OpfltUCTpzGrI= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzoWMo1yW+8ofqq3zLbqXkhZsyQBk1Yj6t0Wok54pk5LQbGO+6O8X+GNY5wy7rKbTvMhpQcq1orX+21CvbwBM8= X-Received: by 2002:a92:c543:: with SMTP id a3mr31204134ilj.303.1626102820667; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:13:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162514156275.10687.5210311195217579136@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: From: Martin Duke Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 08:13:29 -0700 Message-ID: To: Tal Mizrahi Cc: IETF IPPM WG , IPPM Chairs , Mirja Kuehlewind , draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export@ietf.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000fe85fe05c6ee905b" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] DEX Draft Updated X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:13:47 -0000 --000000000000fe85fe05c6ee905b Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Looks good to me. On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 3:45 AM Tal Mizrahi wrote: > Hi, > > An updated version of the draft has been posted. > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-05 > > Martin, Many thanks for your comments below. > These comments have been addressed in this version of the draft. > > If there are no further comments about the security-related content, > we plan to apply similar changes to the flag draft, namely consisting > of the following components to mitigate the security issues of the > loopback flag: > - Selective loopback trigger for a small fraction of the traffic at > IOAM encapsulating nodes. > - Rate limiting of loopback response at IOAM transit nodes. > - Avoid encapsulating IOAM-with-loopback to exported / looped back packets. > > These are (similar to) the main components we added to the DEX draft, > and we believe they are relevant to the loopback flag. > > Cheers, > Tal. > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:16 PM Martin Duke > wrote: > > > > Hi Tal, > > > > Thanks for the changes. Some comments on the diff: > > > > (3.1.2) - "The rate of exported packets SHOULD be limited so that the > number of exported > > packets is significantly lower than the number of packets that are > exported by the device." > > > > I think there's a typo here? s/exported/received in the second instance? > > > > - s/SHOULD not/SHOULD NOT > > > > - "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulating > > nodes that push a DEX option into traversing packets MUST avoid > > pushing an IOAM header into IOAM exported packets." > > > > but the DEX format is undefined, so I don't know how they could possibly > meet this requirement in the general case. Instead, perhaps > > "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulation nodes that can identify a packet as an > IOAM direct export MUST NOT insert a DEX option in those packets" > > > > On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:54 AM Tal Mizrahi > wrote: > >> > >> Hi, > >> > >> The draft was significantly revised (see links below) following the > >> security-related feedback from the last IETF meeting, and based on > >> further discussion that were held at the IOAM design team meetings. > >> > >> Thanks again, Martin and Mirja, for your feedback. > >> > >> The main changes compared to the previous version: > >> - Two sections were added, "DEX Packet Selection", and "Responding to > >> the DEX Trigger". These two sections are specifically intended to > >> address Martin's feedback regarding amplification attacks. > >> - New requirements were added to the security consideration section in > >> response to the comments in the last IETF meeting: > >> - Selective DEX at IOAM encapsulating nodes - in response to > >> Martin's comments. > >> and > >> - Rate limiting at IOAM transit nodes - in response to Martin's > comments. > >> > >> - Avoid pushing the DEX option onto exported packets - in response > >> to Martin's comments. > >> > >> - Only export to trusted nodes - in response to Mirja's comments. > >> > >> Please let us know if there are further comments, and specifically > >> regarding the security aspects of the draft. > >> > >> Cheers, > >> Tal. > >> > >> > >> > >> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 3:12 PM wrote: > >> > > >> > > >> > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt > >> > has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to the > >> > IETF repository. > >> > > >> > Name: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export > >> > Revision: 04 > >> > Title: In-situ OAM Direct Exporting > >> > Document date: 2021-07-01 > >> > Group: ippm > >> > Pages: 12 > >> > URL: > https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt > >> > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export/ > >> > Htmlized: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export > >> > Diff: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04 > >> > > >> > Abstract: > >> > In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) is used > >> > for recording and collecting operational and telemetry information. > >> > Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be pushed into data > >> > packets while they traverse the network. This document introduces > a > >> > new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (DEX) option, which > is > >> > used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly exported or locally > >> > aggregated without being pushed into in-flight data packets. The > >> > exporting method and format are outside the scope of this document. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > The IETF Secretariat > >> > > >> > > --000000000000fe85fe05c6ee905b Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looks good to me.

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 3:45 AM Tal = Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gm= ail.com> wrote:
Hi,

An updated version of the draft has been posted.
https://datatracker.ietf.= org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-05

Martin, Many thanks for your comments below.
These comments have been addressed in this version of the draft.

If there are no further comments about the security-related content,
we plan to apply similar changes to the flag draft, namely consisting
of the following components to mitigate the security issues of the
loopback flag:
- Selective loopback trigger for a small fraction of the traffic at
IOAM encapsulating nodes.
- Rate limiting of loopback response at IOAM transit nodes.
- Avoid encapsulating IOAM-with-loopback to exported / looped back packets.=

These are (similar to) the main components we added to the DEX draft,
and we believe they are relevant to the loopback flag.

Cheers,
Tal.


On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 10:16 PM Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote: >
> Hi Tal,
>
> Thanks for the changes. Some comments on the diff:
>
> (3.1.2) - "The rate of exported packets SHOULD be limited so that= the number of exported
> packets is significantly lower than the number of packets that are exp= orted by the device."
>
> I think there's a typo here? s/exported/received in the second ins= tance?
>
> - s/SHOULD not/SHOULD NOT
>
> - "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulating
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0nodes that push a DEX option into traversing packets MUST = avoid
>=C2=A0 =C2=A0pushing an IOAM header into IOAM exported packets." >
> but the DEX format is undefined, so I don't know how they could po= ssibly meet this requirement in the general case. Instead, perhaps
> "Furthermore, IOAM encapsulation nodes that can identify a packet= as an IOAM direct export MUST NOT insert a DEX option in those packets&quo= t;
>
> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 5:54 AM Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com> w= rote:
>>
>> Hi,
>>
>> The draft was significantly revised (see links below) following th= e
>> security-related feedback from the last IETF meeting, and based on=
>> further discussion that were held at the IOAM design team meetings= .
>>
>> Thanks again, Martin and Mirja, for your feedback.
>>
>> The main changes compared to the previous version:
>> - Two sections were added, "DEX Packet Selection", and &= quot;Responding to
>> the DEX Trigger". These two sections are specifically intende= d to
>> address Martin's feedback regarding amplification attacks.
>> - New requirements were added to the security consideration sectio= n in
>> response to the comments in the last IETF meeting:
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Selective DEX at IOAM encapsulating nodes - in respo= nse to
>> Martin's comments.
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Rate limiting at IOAM transit nodes - in response to= Martin's comments.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Avoid pushing the DEX option onto exported packets -= in response
>> to Martin's comments.
>>
>>=C2=A0 =C2=A0- Only export to trusted nodes - in response to Mirja&= #39;s comments.
>>
>> Please let us know if there are further comments, and specifically=
>> regarding the security aspects of the draft.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tal.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 1, 2021 at 3:12 PM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> > A new version of I-D, draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.t= xt
>> > has been successfully submitted by Tal Mizrahi and posted to = the
>> > IETF repository.
>> >
>> > Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-ietf-ippm= -ioam-direct-export
>> > Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A004
>> > Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ OAM Direct E= xporting
>> > Document date:=C2=A0 2021-07-01
>> > Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ippm
>> > Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 12
>> > URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-iet= f-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04.txt
>> > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioa= m-direct-export/
>> > Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm= -ioam-direct-export
>> > Diff:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft= -ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export-04
>> >
>> > Abstract:
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintena= nce (IOAM) is used
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 for recording and collecting operational and tel= emetry information.
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 Specifically, IOAM allows telemetry data to be p= ushed into data
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 packets while they traverse the network.=C2=A0 T= his document introduces a
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 new IOAM option type called the Direct Export (D= EX) option, which is
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 used as a trigger for IOAM data to be directly e= xported or locally
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 aggregated without being pushed into in-flight d= ata packets.=C2=A0 The
>> >=C2=A0 =C2=A0 exporting method and format are outside the scop= e of this document.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > The IETF Secretariat
>> >
>> >
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dCI+PG86cD4mbmJzcDs8L286cD48L3A+DQo8L2Rpdj4NCjwvYm9keT4NCjwvaHRtbD4NCg== --_000_SJ0PR02MB7853220EFA24146A61534366D3159SJ0PR02MB7853namp_-- From nobody Mon Jul 12 14:34:50 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3F9D3A0D6D; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:34:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162612568359.26727.4098279174043624538@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 14:34:43 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-08.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 21:34:44 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) Data Model Authors : Greg Mirsky Xiao Min Wei S Luo Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-08.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: This document specifies the data model for implementations of Session-Sender and Session-Reflector for Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) mode using YANG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-08.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-08 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 12 15:59:41 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C6F23A1740; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:59:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.34.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162613077434.1449.3768852337447516905@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 15:59:34 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-09.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Jul 2021 22:59:41 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) Data Model Authors : Greg Mirsky Xiao Min Wei S Luo Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-09.txt Pages : 36 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: This document specifies the data model for implementations of Session-Sender and Session-Reflector for Simple Two-way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP) mode using YANG. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang/ There is also an HTML version available at: https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-09.html A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-yang-09 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Jul 12 17:06:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 308D63A0F09; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 17:06:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.452, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=nict.go.jp Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lwhqN7Jh8oN3; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 17:06:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mo-csw.securemx.jp (mo-csw1514.securemx.jp [210.130.202.153]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A2BFA3A0DE5; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 17:06:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=nict.go.jp; h=Date:From:To: Cc:Subject:Message-ID:References:MIME-Version:Content-Type: Content-Transfer-Encoding:In-Reply-To;i=pedro@nict.go.jp;s=20200225.smx;t= 1626134764; x=1627344364; bh=tGUsV4ItHJ81f7FAqTxeLv3+an8LIHnbLMjnlogUrzs=; b=v/8 jO5iKana+7CSWS/9Yp9AN7gUVVIGmzlUdSISzbY3OZczLOaQeqPeMXsb8BPktE/iikJa7Sxx8GB9E gxVJrsyoDa20GbpaXIOY/zjQJPvNBEn/UNqD+xES/K18jSATfRNRSYmP/lzKkv63FzAPdnyBfF/8c dfVBy5uGaYF9R6qSnkpAKc6yCOMMVzthKyB5McM4GB4ucW4nvjELgtmsXqQlCFjUB+a+T4ffkY44Q P4Tx13PtgOmrcGTx9ZgfRamKmlLxccwJoRP5Gs3P/s4UwUZSy03xw0NWbdq4rVmNEr0odpTbWCmDm xAKhXEGUhw6kTk9ZBJpOPSlXapaE50Q==; Received: by mo-csw.securemx.jp (mx-mo-csw1514) id 16D064nC010697; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 09:06:04 +0900 X-Iguazu-Qid: 34tr8rsmp97I12xsw7 X-Iguazu-QSIG: v=2; s=0; t=1626134763; q=34tr8rsmp97I12xsw7; m=y9/xHJ6FmZj6D2cikKeyxcXXmrOF4x1F0zAht/dJHyQ= Received: from mail2.nict.go.jp (ipv6.mail2.nict.go.jp [IPv6:2001:df0:232:1200::f]) by relay.securemx.jp (mx-mr1510) id 16D062CL028560 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 13 Jul 2021 09:06:02 +0900 Received: from spectre (ssh1.nict.go.jp [133.243.3.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail2.nict.go.jp (NICT Mail Spool Server2) with ESMTPSA id 3F1E530199; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 09:06:02 +0900 (JST) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 09:06:00 +0900 From: Pedro Martinez-Julia To: Haoyu Song Cc: Tommy Pauly , "draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org" , IPPM Chairs , IETF IPPM WG Message-ID: References: <0CFF75C4-3142-46A2-838C-27B79A36D794@apple.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Disposition: inline Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable In-Reply-To: Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 00:06:32 -0000 Dear all, I have reviewed the draft and I support it to be adopted by IPPM. The postcard mechanism and others, such as DEX, are quite different, both in terms of requesting telemetry (flagging data traffic) and in terms of providing it (incorporated in packets vs direct submission to the collector). Therefore, this draft has good base to be evolved as a WG draft. Regards, Pedro On Fri, Jul 09, 2021 at 10:49:58PM +0000, Haoyu Song wrote: > Dear IPPM chairs, >=20 > We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/10/. In this draft we focus o= nly on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss its own challenges and solutions. > We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other schemes currently in = the WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be considered as well. Th= ank you very much for your consideration! >=20 > Best regards, > Haoyu >=20 > From: Haoyu Song > Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM > To: Tommy Pauly > Cc: IPPM Chairs ; IETF IPPM WG ; dra= ft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption >=20 > Dear IPPM chairs, >=20 > Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG ado= ption call? > Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to pr= esent the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much! >=20 > Best regards, > Haoyu >=20 > From: Haoyu Song > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM > To: Tommy Pauly > > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF= IPPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-ba= sed-telemetry@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption >=20 > Hi Tommy, >=20 > I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the dra= ft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas of t= he related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the cor= e of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if co= nsidered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft= is about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data colle= ction. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, an= d HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete the ecos= ystem for on-path telemetry. >=20 > I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the WG a= nd to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks! >=20 > Best regards, > Haoyu >=20 > From: Tommy Pauly > > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM > To: Haoyu Song > > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF= IPPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-ba= sed-telemetry@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption >=20 > Hi Haoyu, >=20 > Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several previous= meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that is= already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say that its= content should be in other drafts (as has been done). >=20 > Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion of = the content. >=20 > Best, > Tommy >=20 > On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song > wrote: >=20 > Dear IPPM Chairs, >=20 > I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft "Postcard= -based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry= / >=20 > Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, H= uawei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. > As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking compl= ements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem com= plete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For example, = the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6man-spring= -srv6-oam" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-sr= v6-oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanism= s such as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered the= re. Given the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, w= e believe it's necessary to have a document to formalized the method. >=20 > The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was publishe= d in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. One w= as latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has be= en adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the = core of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedback= s from the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively ma= ture content. >=20 > Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request the = WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. > Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestions. = Thank you very much for your consideration! >=20 > Best regards, > Haoyu >=20 > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --=20 Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Architecture Laboratory, Network Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** From nobody Mon Jul 12 19:50:36 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A92C3A0D4B; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 19:50:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tuVuI53GnXOl; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 19:50:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxus.zteusa.com (mxus.zteusa.com [4.14.134.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D2DFB3A0D42; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 19:50:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mse-us.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.36.11.29]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id 4AD2F5CD6B269DAEA54E; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:50:28 +0800 (CST) Received: from mgapp01.zte.com.cn ([10.36.9.142]) by mse-us.zte.com.cn with SMTP id 16D2oOu0050171; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:50:24 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com) Received: from mapi (mgapp02[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid81; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:50:24 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 10:50:24 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2afa60ecff7014a580f2 X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <202107131050240681761@zte.com.cn> References: 162610119941.11527.1274204599359954796@ietfa.amsl.com Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Cc: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====_001_next=====" X-MAIL: mse-us.zte.com.cn 16D2oOu0050171 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Fw=3A_I-D_Action=3A_draft-ietf-ippm-connectivit?= =?utf-8?q?y-monitoring-02=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 13 Jul 2021 02:50:35 -0000 --=====_001_next===== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====_003_next=====" --=====_003_next===== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rudiger, thank you for the extensive and beneficial updates to the document. I have a question about the use of the term "connectivity" in the draft. As I understand, as you've referenced earlier IETF document RFC 2678, "connectivity" is interpreted as an ability to transport a packet from one system to another. I agree that interpretation is often used in IETF documents. At the same time, in the field of fault management OAM, e.g., Ethernet CFM, we know of two mechanisms - Continuity Check (CC) and Connectivity Verification (CV). To illustrate the difference between them, I'll use the analogy of electrical wires. Then, CC verifies that a wire that connects circuits A and B exists and is operational. CV function is similar, but it verifies that if nodes are connected by red, blue, and orange wires, the red circuit receives electric current only from the red wire. If that is not the case and that state persists over a pre-defined number of consecutive checks, the state of misconnection is determined, and, usually, an alarm is raised. As it appears to me, the term "connectivity" in the draft is not used in the same context as in the FM OAM. I think we can find a better term to characterize the metric discussed in the document. Regards, Greg Mirsky Sr. Standardization Expert 预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com www.zte.com.cn ------------------Original Mail------------------ Sender: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org ; CC: ippm@ietf.org; Date: 2021/07/12 07:47 Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : A Connectivity Monitoring Metric for IPPM Author : Ruediger Geib Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: Within a Segment Routing domain, segment routed measurement packets can be sent along pre-determined paths. This enables new kinds of measurements. Connectivity monitoring allows to supervise the state and performance of a connection or a (sub)path from one or a few central monitoring systems. This document specifies a suitable type-P connectivity monitoring metric. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --=====_003_next=====-- --=====_001_next=====-- From nobody Mon Jul 12 23:19:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 724103A1911; Mon, 12 Jul 2021 23:19:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.546 X-Spam-Level: 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Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E914A3A145B; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 19:43:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.895 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.895 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xzZWK1vGHrt9; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 19:43:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxus.zteusa.com (mxus.zteusa.com [4.14.134.162]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D351C3A1458; Tue, 13 Jul 2021 19:43:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mse-us.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.36.11.29]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id 81A9CA2A38729E4877CD; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:43:38 +0800 (CST) Received: from mgapp01.zte.com.cn ([10.36.9.142]) by mse-us.zte.com.cn with SMTP id 16E2hYbN038775; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:43:34 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com) Received: from mapi (mgapp02[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid81; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:43:34 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 10:43:34 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2afa60ee4f566d794643 X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <202107141043348463130@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: References: 162610119941.11527.1274204599359954796@ietfa.amsl.com, 202107131050240681761@zte.com.cn, FR2P281MB061139577FD19287EAA252909C149@FR2P281MB0611.DEUP281.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Cc: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====_001_next=====" X-MAIL: mse-us.zte.com.cn 16E2hYbN038775 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Fw=3A_I-D_Action=3A_draft-ietf-ippm-connectivit?= =?utf-8?q?y-monitoring-02=2Etxt?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 02:43:46 -0000 --=====_001_next===== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====_003_next=====" --=====_003_next===== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi Rudiger, thank you for explaining the goal of this work in great detail; much appreciated. It could be that there's some similarity between the purpose of this draft and what we're trying to quantify in https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mirsky-ippm-epm/. The availability/unavailability metric, defined for the constant-rate media, is applied to the packet-switched network in that draft. I agree with you that there's a need for a single metric that combines performance metrics measured for the particular path with the Loss of the Path Continuity state. I think that, as services set forth different QoS requirements (Service Level Objectives), such SLOs play a significant role in determining the resulting metric. I greatly appreciate it if you can share your thoughts and comments on the approach in general and the proposed measurement method discussed in Error Performance Measurement draft. Regards, Greg Mirsky Sr. Standardization Expert 预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com www.zte.com.cn ------------------Original Mail------------------ Sender: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de To: gregory mirsky10211915; CC: ippm@ietf.org;ippm-chairs@ietf.org; Date: 2021/07/12 23:19 Subject: AW: Fw:[ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt Hi Greg, Thanks. I'm open to terminology changes. I'll use connectivity for now and I mean ability to forward packets from A to B. My thoughts so far (well written text needs to be added) - find a metric, which is deterministic in expressing no forwarding / no connectivity - for an interface connecting A and B, that's simple if Adj-SIDs are applied: packets are dropped. - in most core nets, a path will be re-routed. Delay often changes, but there are cases, when one can't rely on that. So I stopped working on a delay based connectivity metric. - Using Node-SIDs with a loss based metric is an option too - Adj-SIDs are the better choice if links connecting neighbors are monitored (text will have to express that). - Defining loss of connectivity I'll end up with something similar to routing/BFD but here 3 different measurement loops indicate loss (in the end, 3 dropped packets within one evaluation interval, are the minimum criterium, that's the similarity, but here meaning one of each measurement loop). - To continue that analogy, regarding timing issues: if each measurement loop forwards one packet every 60 ms, 6 measurement loops send one packet each within 50 ms. That's the worst case temporal distance which two or three of the measurement loops are apart. Then that determines speed of decision (at the sender....measurement loop delays can be different, depending on the kind of sub-path monitored and that may have an impact). I've added more statements than you've asked for, just to indicate that there's a concept for the missing metrics. I didn't have time to work out good text, as I figured out how to proceed within the last days only. Regards, Rüdiger -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com Gesendet: Dienstag, 13. Juli 2021 04:50 An: Geib, Rüdiger Cc: ippm@ietf.org; ippm-chairs@ietf.org Betreff: Fw:[ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt Hi Rudiger, thank you for the extensive and beneficial updates to the document. I have a question about the use of the term "connectivity" in the draft. As I understand, as you've referenced earlier IETF document RFC 2678, "connectivity" is interpreted as an ability to transport a packet from one system to another. I agree that interpretation is often used in IETF documents. At the same time, in the field of fault management OAM, e.g., Ethernet CFM, we know of two mechanisms - Continuity Check (CC) and Connectivity Verification (CV). To illustrate the difference between them, I'll use the analogy of electrical wires. Then, CC verifies that a wire that connects circuits A and B exists and is operational. CV function is similar, but it verifies that if nodes are connected by red, blue, and orange wires, the red circuit receives electric current only from the red wire. If that is not the case and that state persists over a pre-defined number of consecutive checks, the state of misconnection is determined, and, usually, an alarm is raised. As it appears to me, the term "connectivity" in the draft is not used in the same context as in the FM OAM. I think we can find a better term to characterize the metric discussed in the document. Regards, Greg Mirsky Sr. Standardization Expert 预研标准部/有线研究院/有线产品经营部 Standard Preresearch Dept./Wireline Product R&D Institute/Wireline Product Operation Division E: gregory.mirsky@ztetx.com www.zte.com.cn ------------------Original Mail------------------ Sender: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org ; CC: ippm@ietf.org; Date: 2021/07/12 07:47 Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : A Connectivity Monitoring Metric for IPPM Author : Ruediger Geib Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2021-07-12 Abstract: Within a Segment Routing domain, segment routed measurement packets can be sent along pre-determined paths. This enables new kinds of measurements. Connectivity monitoring allows to supervise the state and performance of a connection or a (sub)path from one or a few central monitoring systems. This document specifies a suitable type-P connectivity monitoring metric. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-connectivity-monitoring-02 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --=====_003_next=====-- --=====_001_next=====-- From nobody Wed Jul 14 01:28:35 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BFFCA3A185B; Wed, 14 Jul 2021 01:28:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.847 X-Spam-Level: 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Message-ID: To: Pedro Martinez-Julia Cc: Haoyu Song , "draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org" , IPPM Chairs , IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000cb445c05c7198e3a" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 18:31:16 -0000 --000000000000cb445c05c7198e3a Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Forgive the strange question, but what is this draft hoping to accomplish? IIUC it's basically DEX but with the details left to out-of-band communication rather than a header. So is the intent simply to inform people that this control-plane approach is something that is happening in the Internet, and give some advice on how to do it? Or this meant to inform a future standardization effort? On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 5:06 PM Pedro Martinez-Julia wrote: > Dear all, > > I have reviewed the draft and I support it to be adopted by IPPM. The > postcard mechanism and others, such as DEX, are quite different, both in > terms of requesting telemetry (flagging data traffic) and in terms of > providing it (incorporated in packets vs direct submission to the > collector). Therefore, this draft has good base to be evolved as a WG > draft. > > Regards, > Pedro > > On Fri, Jul 09, 2021 at 10:49:58PM +0000, Haoyu Song wrote: > > Dear IPPM chairs, > > > > We just published a -10 version of the draft > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry= /10/. > In this draft we focus only on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss its ow= n > challenges and solutions. > > We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other schemes currently i= n > the WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be considered as well. > Thank you very much for your consideration! > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > From: Haoyu Song > > Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM > > To: Tommy Pauly > > Cc: IPPM Chairs ; IETF IPPM WG ; > draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption > > > > Dear IPPM chairs, > > > > Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG > adoption call? > > Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to > present the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much! > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > From: Haoyu Song > > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM > > To: Tommy Pauly > > > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; > IETF IPPM WG >; > draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org> > > Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption > > > > Hi Tommy, > > > > I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the > draft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas > of the related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not t= he > core of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed = if > considered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the > draft is about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry dat= a > collection. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, > DEX, and HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete > the ecosystem for on-path telemetry. > > > > I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the WG > and to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks! > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > From: Tommy Pauly > > > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM > > To: Haoyu Song >> > > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; > IETF IPPM WG >; > draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org> > > Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption > > > > Hi Haoyu, > > > > Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several > previous meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of wo= rk > that is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say > that its content should be in other drafts (as has been done). > > > > Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion o= f > the content. > > > > Best, > > Tommy > > > > On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song > wrote: > > > > Dear IPPM Chairs, > > > > I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft > "Postcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" > > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry= / > < > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat= racker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry%2F&data=3D= 04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0= fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783193667%7CUnknown%7CTW= FpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3= D%7C1000&sdata=3D%2FA57w%2FrWm3TXoEvBCcHT2IPQQJi%2BrcgQwlTvs18EX48%3D&reser= ved=3D0 > > > > > > Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, > Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. > > As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking > complements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the > ecosystem complete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios= . > For example, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in > "draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam" ( > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam< > https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatat= racker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&data=3D04%7C= 01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fee8f= f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783203623%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ= sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1= 000&sdata=3DVODdVGhSLsLDmfpWzFWIXltte8A7p2%2FA1okRktL3DMI%3D&reserved=3D0>) > which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms suc= h > as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. > Given the technique is equal > ly applicable to other types of networks, we believe it's necessary to > have a document to formalized the method. > > > > The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was > published in 2018. It originally covers two related but different > techniques. One was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOA= M > DEX, which has been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on pack= et > marking, is the core of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous > discussions and feedbacks from the WG, we now have a draft with focused > direction and relatively mature content. > > > > Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request th= e > WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. > > Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and > suggestions. Thank you very much for your consideration! > > > > Best regards, > > Haoyu > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > ippm mailing list > > ippm@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > > > -- > Pedro Martinez-Julia > Network Architecture Laboratory, Network Research Institute > National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) > 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan > Email: pedro@nict.go.jp > --------------------------------------------------------- > *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --000000000000cb445c05c7198e3a Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Forgive the strange question, but what is this draft = hoping to accomplish?

IIUC it's basically DEX = but with the details left to out-of-band communication rather than a header= . So is the intent simply to inform people that this control-plane approach= is something that is happening in the Internet, and give some advice on ho= w to do it? Or this meant to inform a future standardization effort?

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 5:06 PM Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp> wrote:
Dear all,

I have reviewed the draft and I support it to be adopted by IPPM. The
postcard mechanism and others, such as DEX, are quite different, both in terms of requesting telemetry (flagging data traffic) and in terms of
providing it (incorporated in packets vs direct submission to the
collector). Therefore, this draft has good base to be evolved as a WG
draft.

Regards,
Pedro

On Fri, Jul 09, 2021 at 10:49:58PM +0000, Haoyu Song wrote:
> Dear IPPM chairs,
>
> We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm= -postcard-based-telemetry/10/. In this draft we focus only on the PBT-M= scheme itself and discuss its own challenges and solutions.
> We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other schemes currently = in the WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be considered as well.= Thank you very much for your consideration!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>
> From: Haoyu Song
> Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM
> To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
> Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>; draft-son= g-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption
>
> Dear IPPM chairs,
>
> Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG = adoption call?
> Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to= present the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>
> From: Haoyu Song
> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM
> To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com<mailto:tpauly@apple.com>>
> Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org>>; IETF IPPM WG &l= t;ippm@ietf.org<m= ailto:ippm@ietf.org&= gt;>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org&= lt;mailto:draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org= >
> Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption
>
> Hi Tommy,
>
> I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the = draft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas o= f the related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the = core of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if= considered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the dr= aft is about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data co= llection. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, = DEX, and HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete t= he ecosystem for on-path telemetry.
>
> I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the W= G and to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>
> From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com<mailto:tpauly@apple.com>>
> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM
> To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com<mailto:haoyu.song@futurewei.com>><= br> > Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org>>; IETF IPPM WG &l= t;ippm@ietf.org<m= ailto:ippm@ietf.org&= gt;>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org&= lt;mailto:draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org= >
> Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption
>
> Hi Haoyu,
>
> Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several p= revious meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work = that is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say t= hat its content should be in other drafts (as has been done).
>
> Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion = of the content.
>
> Best,
> Tommy
>
> On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com<mailto= :haoyu.song@f= uturewei.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear IPPM Chairs,
>
> I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft &q= uot;Postcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" > https://datatracker.i= etf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/<https://nam11.safelink= s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2F= draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song= %40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753= a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783193667%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC= 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata= =3D%2FA57w%2FrWm3TXoEvBCcHT2IPQQJi%2BrcgQwlTvs18EX48%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE= , Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work.
> As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking co= mplements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem = complete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For exampl= e, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6ma= n-spring-srv6-oam" (https:= //datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam<https://nam11.safelin= ks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2= Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40f= uturewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5= 591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783203623%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLj= AwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata=3DVOD= dVGhSLsLDmfpWzFWIXltte8A7p2%2FA1okRktL3DMI%3D&reserved=3D0>) whi= ch I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms such as = configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. Given = the technique is equal
=C2=A0ly applicable to other types of networks, we believe it's necessa= ry to have a=C2=A0 document to formalized the method.
>
> The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was publi= shed in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. On= e was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has= been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is t= he core of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedb= acks from the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively= mature content.
>
> Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request t= he WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it.
> Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestion= s.=C2=A0 =C2=A0Thank you very much for your consideration!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>

> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


--
Pedro Martinez-Julia
Network Architecture Laboratory, Network Research Institute
National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT)
4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan
Email: pedro@nict.go.= jp
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Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:14:51 +0000 From: Haoyu Song To: Martin Duke , Pedro Martinez-Julia CC: "draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org" , IPPM Chairs , IETF IPPM WG Thread-Topic: [ippm] Request for WG adoption Thread-Index: Addt1c+1WBY/cdcRSfGA5wbarzJ+TgAxGw0AAADONxABlMhIkAAI4rdgAJmu8AAAWOF6AAABOCkA Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:14:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0CFF75C4-3142-46A2-838C-27B79A36D794@apple.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: gmail.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;gmail.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: 51b43dba-e50d-45aa-ccbd-08d946fba7af x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR13MB3602: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: 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 x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BY3PR13MB47870BE8DA8BA324EAAC81329A139BY3PR13MB4787namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 51b43dba-e50d-45aa-ccbd-08d946fba7af X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 14 Jul 2021 19:14:51.2393 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: a2ikayb5l4RlO2eg/QhIUktP0zOMa8LF1B9oua/uXHSqQjDIXla7wttycuZTJQhYha6l7hwVt/+N0sQRufQ0nA== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR13MB3602 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 14 Jul 2021 19:15:05 -0000 --_000_BY3PR13MB47870BE8DA8BA324EAAC81329A139BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Martin, Thank you for the question! Actually PBT-M is quite different from DEX. 1. There's no header but not a mark involved, so the encapsulation requi= rement is totally different 2. Due to the lack of a header, the export data correlation problem stan= ds out and we need to have solutions to address that. This is unique proble= m to PBT-M 3. PBT-M technique has been applied in SRv6 OAM, but no details on the r= elated correlation, configuration, and export issues for which we'd better = have general solutions applicable to each different network scenario. So in brief we hope to use this draft to formalize this unique approach and= provide solution for its unique issues. Further questions and comments are welcome! Best regards, Haoyu From: Martin Duke Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 11:31 AM To: Pedro Martinez-Julia Cc: Haoyu Song ; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-t= elemetry@ietf.org; IPPM Chairs ; IETF IPPM WG Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption Forgive the strange question, but what is this draft hoping to accomplish? IIUC it's basically DEX but with the details left to out-of-band communicat= ion rather than a header. So is the intent simply to inform people that thi= s control-plane approach is something that is happening in the Internet, an= d give some advice on how to do it? Or this meant to inform a future standa= rdization effort? On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 5:06 PM Pedro Martinez-Julia > wrote: Dear all, I have reviewed the draft and I support it to be adopted by IPPM. The postcard mechanism and others, such as DEX, are quite different, both in terms of requesting telemetry (flagging data traffic) and in terms of providing it (incorporated in packets vs direct submission to the collector). Therefore, this draft has good base to be evolved as a WG draft. Regards, Pedro On Fri, Jul 09, 2021 at 10:49:58PM +0000, Haoyu Song wrote: > Dear IPPM chairs, > > We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/10/. In this draft = we focus only on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss its own challenges and= solutions. > We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other schemes currently in = the WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be considered as well. Th= ank you very much for your consideration! > > Best regards, > Haoyu > > From: Haoyu Song > Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM > To: Tommy Pauly > > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF= IPPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-ba= sed-telemetry@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption > > Dear IPPM chairs, > > Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG ado= ption call? > Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to pr= esent the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much! > > Best regards, > Haoyu > > From: Haoyu Song > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM > To: Tommy Pauly >> > Cc: IPPM Chairs >>; IETF IPPM WG >>; = draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org> > Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption > > Hi Tommy, > > I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the dra= ft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas of t= he related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the cor= e of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if co= nsidered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft= is about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data colle= ction. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, an= d HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete the ecos= ystem for on-path telemetry. > > I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the WG a= nd to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks! > > Best regards, > Haoyu > > From: Tommy Pauly >> > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM > To: Haoyu Song = >> > Cc: IPPM Chairs >>; IETF IPPM WG >>; = draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org> > Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption > > Hi Haoyu, > > Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several previous= meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that is= already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say that its= content should be in other drafts (as has been done). > > Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion of = the content. > > Best, > Tommy > > On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song >> wrote: > > Dear IPPM Chairs, > > I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft "Postcard= -based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry= /> > > Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, H= uawei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. > As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking compl= ements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem com= plete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For example, = the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6man-spring= -srv6-oam" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-sr= v6-oam>= ) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms suc= h as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. G= iven the technique is equal ly applicable to other types of networks, we believe it's necessary to hav= e a document to formalized the method. > > The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was publishe= d in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. One w= as latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has be= en adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the = core of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedback= s from the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively ma= ture content. > > Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request the = WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. > Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestions. = Thank you very much for your consideration! > > Best regards, > Haoyu > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm -- Pedro Martinez-Julia Network Architecture Laboratory, Network Research Institute National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT) 4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan Email: pedro@nict.go.jp --------------------------------------------------------- *** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem *** _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --_000_BY3PR13MB47870BE8DA8BA324EAAC81329A139BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Martin,

 

Thank you for the question! Actually PBT-M is quite = different from DEX.

  1. There’s no header but not a mark involved, so the encapsulation= requirement is totally different
  2. Due to the lack of a= header, the export data correlation problem stands out and we need to have= solutions to address that. This is unique problem to PBT-M
    3. =
  3. PBT-M technique has been applied in SRv6 OAM, but no details on the r= elated correlation, configuration, and export issues for which we’d b= etter have general solutions applicable to each different network scenario.

 

So in brief we hope to use this draft to formalize t= his unique approach and provide solution for its unique issues.

Further questions and comments are welcome!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com= >
Sent: Wednesday, July 14, 2021 11:31 AM
To: Pedro Martinez-Julia <pedro@nict.go.jp>
Cc: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com>; draft-song-ippm-pos= tcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org; IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; I= ETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption

 

Forgive the strange question, but what is this draft= hoping to accomplish?

 

IIUC it's basically DEX but with the details left to= out-of-band communication rather than a header. So is the intent simply to= inform people that this control-plane approach is something that is happen= ing in the Internet, and give some advice on how to do it? Or this meant to inform a future standardization e= ffort?

 

On Mon, Jul 12, 2021 at 5:06 PM Pedro Martinez-Julia= <pedro@nict.go.jp> wrote:

Dear all,

I have reviewed the draft and I support it to be adopted by IPPM. The
postcard mechanism and others, such as DEX, are quite different, both in terms of requesting telemetry (flagging data traffic) and in terms of
providing it (incorporated in packets vs direct submission to the
collector). Therefore, this draft has good base to be evolved as a WG
draft.

Regards,
Pedro

On Fri, Jul 09, 2021 at 10:49:58PM +0000, Haoyu Song wrote:
> Dear IPPM chairs,
>
> We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/1= 0/. In this draft we focus only on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss = its own challenges and solutions.
> We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other schemes currently = in the WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be considered as well.= Thank you very much for your consideration!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>
> From: Haoyu Song
> Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM
> To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
> Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption
>
> Dear IPPM chairs,
>
> Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG = adoption call?
> Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to= present the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>
> From: Haoyu Song
> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM
> To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com<mailto:tpauly@apple.com>>
> Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org>>; IETF IPPM WG &l= t;ippm@ietf.org<m= ailto:ippm@ietf.org&= gt;>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org<mailto:draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org>
> Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption
>
> Hi Tommy,
>
> I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the = draft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas o= f the related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the = core of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if considered improper in such a draft. On= the other hand, the core of the draft is about the approach to use some fl= ag to trigger the telemetry data collection. In this sense, it's an indepen= dent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete the e= cosystem for on-path telemetry.
>
> I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the W= G and to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>
> From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com<mailto:tpauly@apple.com>>
> Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM
> To: Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com<mailto:haoyu.song@futurewei.com>><= br> > Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org<mailto:ippm-chairs@ietf.org>>; IETF IPPM WG &l= t;ippm@ietf.org<m= ailto:ippm@ietf.org&= gt;>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org<mailto:draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption
>
> Hi Haoyu,
>
> Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several previ= ous meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that= is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say that = its content should be in other drafts (as has been done).
>
> Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion = of the content.
>
> Best,
> Tommy
>
> On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com<mailto= :haoyu.song@f= uturewei.com>> wrote:
>
> Dear IPPM Chairs,
>
> I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft "= Postcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking"
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/<= /a><https://nam11.safelink= s.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2F= draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song= %40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753= a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783193667%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC= 4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C1000&sdata= =3D%2FA57w%2FrWm3TXoEvBCcHT2IPQQJi%2BrcgQwlTvs18EX48%3D&reserved=3D0>
>
> Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE= , Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work.
> As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking co= mplements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem = complete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For exampl= e, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft= -ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam<= https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra= cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fhtml%2Fdraft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam&data=3D04%= 7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fee= 8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783203623%7CUnknown%7CTWFpb= GZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7= C1000&sdata=3DVODdVGhSLsLDmfpWzFWIXltte8A7p2%2FA1okRktL3DMI%3D&rese= rved=3D0>) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms such= as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. Gi= ven the technique is equal
 ly applicable to other types of networks, we believe it's necessary t= o have a  document to formalized the method.
>
> The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was publi= shed in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. On= e was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has= been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the core of the current draft. Thanks= for the numerous discussions and feedbacks from the WG, we now have a draf= t with focused direction and relatively mature content.
>
> Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request t= he WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it.
> Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestion= s.   Thank you very much for your consideration!
>
> Best regards,
> Haoyu
>

> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


--
Pedro Martinez-Julia
Network Architecture Laboratory, Network Research Institute
National Institute of Information and Communications Technology (NICT)
4-2-1, Nukui-Kitamachi, Koganei, Tokyo 184-8795, Japan
Email: pedro@nict.go.= jp
---------------------------------------------------------
*** Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessitatem ***

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

--_000_BY3PR13MB47870BE8DA8BA324EAAC81329A139BY3PR13MB4787namp_-- From nobody Fri Jul 16 12:19:32 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB9F63A4177; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.548 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.548 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.452, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id msfba9nyv7CU; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp45.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp45.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.49]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 405833A4176; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp45.rno.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp45.rno.apple.com (8.16.1.2/8.16.1.2) with SMTP id 16GJH959008845; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:28 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=from : content-type : mime-version : subject : date : references : to : in-reply-to : message-id; s=20180706; bh=k1v7+vS4DBPQg5GvAXwZpmms9tc4ekBghBRqDuDNB+c=; b=RIgBkvwCrxSTEvlsmiP6VAIZt9f4DZ88vZtNjUfrNVyHD2C3Lsi9vlXvub3zphpcEyhu TOPXZLlg86x2WGLInMOOPdYup5HXe2+S2lD8gSiQ3guHdTOITRY6p9/yjWJmopJHo599 DzOrHdpRrn/yqrYWv2/jYcwLHCDMZeqsx528qygT4qo7uesZLCV4j0+Jomi0kIyrdn/e /xsESbtmhQyOc1/KMFPAUEvcDnTMiEWRMfZ2jSzndI9SgAm61N0t20DI4dEwqT1w0Cmy 0OZ68dW1IylwzlRSCyDlRtAGYQyRgXPE9efofuAXu5AeRJ9ixVs2AZAGua8V2RRLue1E DQ== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.151]) by rn-mailsvcp-ppex-lapp45.rno.apple.com with ESMTP id 39twyx7bvy-1 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO); Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:28 -0700 Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.16]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) with ESMTPS id <0QWC00V8LR0GV260@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp03.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) id <0QWC00200QIF8700@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: 548b02acdb3815e286f22ba77abf453c X-Va-E-CD: 24ada8e180f7499a0b09525e25cdac80 X-Va-R-CD: 139fe7468785eb8b92852cb84eb27108 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: 5ad9530c-da56-4b2b-8164-2a2a364f3d15 X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: 548b02acdb3815e286f22ba77abf453c X-V-E-CD: 24ada8e180f7499a0b09525e25cdac80 X-V-R-CD: 139fe7468785eb8b92852cb84eb27108 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 765fd6d6-fd42-4f14-ab10-a023ef3a782b X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-16_09:2021-07-16, 2021-07-16 signatures=0 Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [17.11.38.181]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) with ESMTPSA id <0QWC00J80R0FHI00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp03.rno.apple.com>; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_16EC9EB2-5162-4ACD-8788-FD9D70B37FC9" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 15.0 \(3681.0.2.1.2\)) Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 12:19:27 -0700 References: <956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com> To: Tommy Pauly , "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" In-reply-to: <956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com> Message-id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3681.0.2.1.2) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-16_09:2021-07-16, 2021-07-16 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2021 19:19:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_16EC9EB2-5162-4ACD-8788-FD9D70B37FC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hello IPPM, Thanks to those who provided feedback! Hearing no objections, we will = move forward with adoption. Authors, please submit a -00 version of the = IETF draft for approval. Best, Tommy > On Jul 1, 2021, at 9:48 AM, Tommy Pauly = wrote: >=20 > Hello IPPM, >=20 > Back in November, we had a call for adoption for = draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we = asked for revised drafts. >=20 > We=E2=80=99ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to = re-start the adoption call to get people=E2=80=99s input on the current = version. >=20 > = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 = = >=20 > Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you = support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15. >=20 > Best, > Tommy & Ian > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --Apple-Mail=_16EC9EB2-5162-4ACD-8788-FD9D70B37FC9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hello= IPPM,

Thanks to = those who provided feedback! Hearing no objections, we will move forward = with adoption. Authors, please submit a -00 version of the IETF draft = for approval.

Best,
Tommy

On Jul = 1, 2021, at 9:48 AM, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

Hello IPPM,

Back in November, we had = a call for adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to = several questions, and we asked for revised drafts.

We=E2=80=99ve gotten = several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption = call to get people=E2=80=99s input on the current version.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf= -state-10

Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate = if you support adopting this work by Thursday, July = 15.

Best,
Tommy & = Ian
_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

= --Apple-Mail=_16EC9EB2-5162-4ACD-8788-FD9D70B37FC9-- From nobody Fri Jul 16 18:38:38 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 36D943A14BD for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 18:38:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.896 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.896 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id D6cVSmneFI8G for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 18:38:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mxhk.zte.com.cn (mxhk.zte.com.cn [63.217.80.70]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E76C3A14BB for ; Fri, 16 Jul 2021 18:38:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mse-fl2.zte.com.cn (unknown [10.30.14.239]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTPS id 57ED0B6813FA1CB068C8; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 09:38:26 +0800 (CST) Received: from njxapp03.zte.com.cn ([10.41.132.202]) by mse-fl2.zte.com.cn with SMTP id 16H1cL0J054723; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 09:38:21 +0800 (GMT-8) (envelope-from xiao.min2@zte.com.cn) Received: from mapi (njxapp01[null]) by mapi (Zmail) with MAPI id mid201; Sat, 17 Jul 2021 09:38:20 +0800 (CST) Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 09:38:20 +0800 (CST) X-Zmail-TransId: 2af960f2348cb54d6385 X-Mailer: Zmail v1.0 Message-ID: <202107170938209747049@zte.com.cn> In-Reply-To: References: 956C2EA9-5703-4318-BD97-32EE60A4C011@apple.com, F7F8CCC7-02AE-4542-95AD-1B3FA6899D29@apple.com Mime-Version: 1.0 From: To: Cc: , Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="=====_001_next=====" X-MAIL: mse-fl2.zte.com.cn 16H1cL0J054723 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?Re-call_for_adoption=3A_draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-co?= =?utf-8?q?nf-state?= X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 17 Jul 2021 01:38:36 -0000 --=====_001_next===== Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====_003_next=====" --=====_003_next===== Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Thank you Chairs! I'll submit a -00 version of the IETF draft after the I-D submission tool is reopened. Thank you all who reviewed this draft. Looking forward to more reviews and comments. Best Regards, Xiao Min ------------------原始邮件------------------ 发件人：TommyPauly 收件人：Tommy Pauly;IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org); 日 期 ：2021年07月17日 03:19 主 题 ：Re: [ippm] Re-call for adoption: draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm Hello IPPM, Thanks to those who provided feedback! Hearing no objections, we will move forward with adoption. Authors, please submit a -00 version of the IETF draft for approval. Best, TommyOn Jul 1, 2021, at 9:48 AM, Tommy Pauly wrote: Hello IPPM, Back in November, we had a call for adoption for draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state that led to several questions, and we asked for revised drafts. We’ve gotten several new versions, so Ian and I would like to re-start the adoption call to get people’s input on the current version. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-xiao-ippm-ioam-conf-state-10 Please review the document and reply to the list to indicate if you support adopting this work by Thursday, July 15. Best, Tommy & Ian _______________________________________________ippm mailing listippm@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm --=====_003_next=====-- --=====_001_next=====-- From nobody Tue Jul 20 10:09:12 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A82463A2B43; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 10:09:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.989 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.989 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, HTTPS_HTTP_MISMATCH=0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, T_SPF_PERMERROR=0.01, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=futurewei.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ovpAKEF_CsE8; 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Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:08:56 +0000 Received: from BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cca5:49e8:5b4f:5cf8]) by BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::cca5:49e8:5b4f:5cf8%5]) with mapi id 15.20.4352.024; Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:08:56 +0000 From: Haoyu Song To: Tommy Pauly CC: IPPM Chairs , IETF IPPM WG , "draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Request for WG adoption Thread-Index: Addt1c+1WBY/cdcRSfGA5wbarzJ+TgAxGw0AAADONxABlMhIkAAI4rdgAhz+7CA= Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:08:55 +0000 Message-ID: References: <0CFF75C4-3142-46A2-838C-27B79A36D794@apple.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: authentication-results: apple.com; dkim=none (message not signed) header.d=none;apple.com; dmarc=none action=none header.from=futurewei.com; x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: d554b545-81d4-4194-7c62-08d94ba10ee1 x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BY5PR13MB3763: x-microsoft-antispam-prvs: x-ms-oob-tlc-oobclassifiers: OLM:10000; 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boundary="_000_BY3PR13MB4787D5288D841BFDCD874AC79AE29BY3PR13MB4787namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: Futurewei.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BY3PR13MB4787.namprd13.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: d554b545-81d4-4194-7c62-08d94ba10ee1 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Jul 2021 17:08:55.9091 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 0fee8ff2-a3b2-4018-9c75-3a1d5591fedc X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: 0aGo7SvwbQ7+/6gphMGmS733/MU4WeH638z4MOWxgQkS0ajGlqUR1QvzJkTJy/KZmAep1n+NPiohWtCHwStXoQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: BY5PR13MB3763 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Request for WG adoption X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jul 2021 17:09:06 -0000 --_000_BY3PR13MB4787D5288D841BFDCD874AC79AE29BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear IPPM chairs, I think the draft PBT-M has been discussed many times in email list and sho= uld be put in to the category "Proposed Work - Individual drafts that have = received list discussion and are candidates for adoption." Unfortunately, i= t was list as the last item in lighting talks. Based on my past experience,= it has little chance to be presented at all, let alone any discussion abou= t it. I also find some non-WG drafts which was never discussed can always = be included in the main agenda and I'm curious about the selection criteria= . In the past email exchanges, I have explained the content and scope of the = draft and answered some questions and concerns. In addition to the coauthor= s from three major vendors and two operators, we also received some support= from other attendees. We also see a real application for it will become RF= C soon. I'd like to know the clear expectation from the WG on how we can pr= ogress the work. Thank you very much for your consideration! Best regards, Haoyu From: Haoyu Song Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 3:50 PM To: Tommy Pauly Cc: IPPM Chairs ; IETF IPPM WG ; draft= -song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption Dear IPPM chairs, We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/10/. In this draft we focus onl= y on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss its own challenges and solutions. We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other schemes currently in th= e WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be considered as well. Than= k you very much for your consideration! Best regards, Haoyu From: Haoyu Song Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM To: Tommy Pauly > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF I= PPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-base= d-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption Dear IPPM chairs, Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the criteria for a WG adopt= ion call? Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG meeting for me to pres= ent the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very much! Best regards, Haoyu From: Haoyu Song Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM To: Tommy Pauly > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF I= PPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-base= d-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption Hi Tommy, I think here I need to give some clarification. One the one hand, the draft= indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the high level ideas of the= related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), but this is not the core = of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if cons= idered improper in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft i= s about the approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collect= ion. In this sense, it's an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and = HTS. I believe they are equally important and needed to complete the ecosys= tem for on-path telemetry. I would also like to take this chance to seek more feedback from the WG and= to see the level of interest and support on this work. Thanks! Best regards, Haoyu From: Tommy Pauly > Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM To: Haoyu Song > Cc: IPPM Chairs >; IETF I= PPM WG >; draft-song-ippm-postcard-base= d-telemetry@ietf.org Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption Hi Haoyu, Thanks for bringing this up again. As we've discussed in several previous m= eetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level description of work that is a= lready concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I am inclined to say that its c= ontent should be in other drafts (as has been done). Any adoption call would need to be predicated on more list discussion of th= e content. Best, Tommy On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song > wrote: Dear IPPM Chairs, I'm writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt the following draft "Postcard-b= ased On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using Packet Marking" https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/<= https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatra= cker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry%2F&data=3D04= %7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C4cae751d53a845bc600a08d93cb15fdb%7C0fe= e8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C0%7C637607554783193667%7CUnknown%7CTWFp= bGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%= 7C1000&sdata=3D%2FA57w%2FrWm3TXoEvBCcHT2IPQQJi%2BrcgQwlTvs18EX48%3D&reserve= d=3D0> Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagues from Cisco, ZTE, Hua= wei as well as some network operators to coauthor this work. As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on packet marking complem= ents the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to make the ecosystem compl= ete, and I believe each can find its application scenarios. For example, th= e PBT based on packet marking has been applied in "draft-ietf-6man-spring-s= rv6-oam" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6= -oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms s= uch as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there.= Given the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we b= elieve it's necessary to have a document to formalized the method. The draft has undergone a long line of developments since it was published = in 2018. It originally covers two related but different techniques. One was= latter stripped off to form an independent draft, IOAM DEX, which has been= adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the co= re of the current draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks = from the WG, we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively matu= re content. Given the community interest and the technical merit, we now request the WG= to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it. Please let us know if there are any concerns, comments, and suggestions. = Thank you very much for your consideration! Best regards, Haoyu --_000_BY3PR13MB4787D5288D841BFDCD874AC79AE29BY3PR13MB4787namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear IPPM chairs,

 

I think the draft PBT-M has been discussed many time= s in email list and should be put in to the category “Proposed Work -= Individual drafts that have received list discussion and are candidates fo= r adoption.” Unfortunately, it was list as the last item in lighting talks. Based on my past experience, it has li= ttle chance to be presented at all, let alone any discussion about it. &nbs= p;I also find some non-WG drafts which was never discussed can always be in= cluded in the main agenda and I’m curious about the selection criteria.

 

In the past email exchanges, I have explained the co= ntent and scope of the draft and answered some questions and concerns. In a= ddition to the coauthors from three major vendors and two operators, we als= o received some support from other attendees. We also see a real application for it will become RFC soon. I&#= 8217;d like to know the clear expectation from the WG on how we can progres= s the work. Thank you very much for your consideration!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Haoyu Song
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 3:50 PM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-chairs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@= ietf.org>; draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption

 

Dear IPPM chairs,

 

We just published a -10 version of the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry/1= 0/. In this draft we focus only on the PBT-M scheme itself and discuss = its own challenges and solutions.

We believe that PBT-M is complementary to the other = schemes currently in the WG including IOAM trace/E2E/DEX and it should be c= onsidered as well. Thank you very much for your consideration!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Haoyu Song
Sent: Friday, July 9, 2021 11:35 AM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple= .com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-cha= irs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>; draft-= song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption

 

Dear IPPM chairs,

 

Could you please suggest what we can do to meet the = criteria for a WG adoption call?

Could you please assign a slot in the coming IETF WG= meeting for me to present the draft and solicit comments? Thank you very m= uch!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Haoyu Song
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 10:34 AM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple= .com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-cha= irs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>; draft-= song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Request for WG adoption

 

Hi Tommy,

 

I think here I need to give some clarification. One = the one hand, the draft indeed provides some descriptions to summarize the = high level ideas of the related proposals (under the on-path telemetry), bu= t this is not the core of the draft but to help understand the field and it can be removed if considered impro= per in such a draft. On the other hand, the core of the draft is about the = approach to use some flag to trigger the telemetry data collection. In this= sense, it’s an independent proposal along with IOAM, DEX, and HTS. I believe they are equally important and ne= eded to complete the ecosystem for on-path telemetry.

 

I would also like to take this chance to seek more f= eedback from the WG and to see the level of interest and support on this wo= rk. Thanks!

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
Sent: Thursday, July 1, 2021 9:58 AM
To: Haoyu Song <haoyu= .song@futurewei.com>
Cc: IPPM Chairs <ippm-cha= irs@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ipp= m@ietf.org>; draft-= song-ippm-postcard-based-telemetry@ietf.org
Subject: Re: Request for WG adoption

 

Hi Haoyu,

 

Thanks for bringing this up again. As we’ve di= scussed in several previous meetings, this seems to be mainly a high-level = description of work that is already concrete in IOAM, DEX, etc. As such, I = am inclined to say that its content should be in other drafts (as has been done).

 

Any adoption call would need to be predicated on mor= e list discussion of the content.

 

Best,

Tommy

 

On Jun 30, 2021, at 10:59 AM, Haoyu Song <haoyu.song@futurewei.com> wrote= :

 

Dear IPPM Chairs,

 

I’m writing to request the IPPM WG to adopt th= e following draft “Postcard-based On-Path Flow Data Telemetry using P= acket Marking”

 

Now the draft is in -09 version and we have colleagu= es from Cisco, ZTE, Huawei as well as some network operators to coauthor th= is work.

As another on-path telemetry technique, PBT based on= packet marking complements the other works such as IOAM, DEX, and HTS to m= ake the ecosystem complete, and I believe each can find its application sce= narios. For example, the PBT based on packet marking has been applied in “draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-o= am” (https://dat= atracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-spring-srv6-oam) which I believe has passed the last call, but the detailed mechanisms such= as configuration, data format, and export method are not covered there. Gi= ven the technique is equally applicable to other types of networks, we beli= eve it’s necessary to have a  document to formalized the method.

 

The draft has undergone a long line of developments = since it was published in 2018. It originally covers two related but differ= ent techniques. One was latter stripped off to form an independent draft, I= OAM DEX, which has been adopted by IPPM. The remaining one, PBT based on packet marking, is the core of the c= urrent draft. Thanks for the numerous discussions and feedbacks from the WG= , we now have a draft with focused direction and relatively mature content.=

 

Given the community interest and the technical merit= , we now request the WG to adopt the draft and engage the WG to work on it.=

Please let us know if there are any concerns, commen= ts, and suggestions.   Thank you very much for your consideration= !  

 

Best regards,

Haoyu

 

--_000_BY3PR13MB4787D5288D841BFDCD874AC79AE29BY3PR13MB4787namp_-- From nobody Fri Jul 23 10:18:02 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0E9FA3A0CC4 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:18:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -16.698 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-16.698 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIMWL_WL_MED=-0.499, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, ENV_AND_HDR_SPF_MATCH=-0.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5, USER_IN_DEF_SPF_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NJ_f5mgXwhDa for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B2A163A0C86 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:17:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id b7so3111979wri.8 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:17:58 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RfD8IGed0QLyLMyMshI9pS5A6srsj5mvOi+nIFllYBI=; b=BfffcPwbr0XFf/x2g4B0rLfvO9cxOBHXrJZsbx4H9ZqyVfaeeCOKlM15Zpkmvx14r8 ivgtN3fMJWPrAafuhkuJxqgYNw+kN8j6Z3bXpEzYLXAUAZrrpAMwsvPKEGAarHxDw+N0 WK/NBgP3TXpoHAQc4tMlIJiY4QR6Xnjbw1rO5/TmzRAI76WkGYakYa5oLi8Jecj9ZxbZ BPQ+mlVHEABUPR2X5LY38qF1fCT0FnelmC5drAponQetf8CHGEnMmc5f1wKbLT4PPn9/ QryJbNfog5Tp7keROvmojaSszILfiBRT+mN1xmDLfTIhUM4qNkdh+v9kiKEFjJgE7k31 sxBw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=RfD8IGed0QLyLMyMshI9pS5A6srsj5mvOi+nIFllYBI=; b=awvieYicwCA3UM7ptcRNS/4XJrxoEkn9hjUNpNZzuVbSqS5uETz9AzzgvoQMO7yKpA TmPz+C33b+FK7lOdYhwZKOWhFcegHo3X4mZdocNGWH6eQSRiM3DuxW30DRdIQ3t55N9c hJ7zePATTaiXnKVcvdPxZ/ruErX90xSv/Au1LtYAqUXdPSLtlR+INmPgr5/bpiQ9yNgt sRDxdOFFkEqJLgAs9PCRnpCcHH3UTb5wRKyuQtPP3mGo8bQfIhlmrUe1/lpckB1Q1Uhx eqCshWIntld5kL6A5p0zmim5GT0IqnC+XNivwyCm7BWoVb5oU0uWZjxZW1IxT6ZVL7S9 bywA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532h0RWEQ2MeLYWY1l4KkdqqxQM2hVT1USRRIJYaMWKHRR93eESX kiwDaEHX0F25PZ2O5xQqCXSi3//m7ie8sEGPRhceqPLShA0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxuSih3UtNbyCuxmINVRHCT7hQaWgUy9lhvGAj5IBVEIHXPNP9nmKv87QH2O4+REwi2N2rztDvcwWnugJlDbto= X-Received: by 2002:adf:9d88:: with SMTP id p8mr6682463wre.409.1627060674551; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 10:17:54 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Ian Swett Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 13:17:41 -0400 Message-ID: To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" , IPPM Chairs Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0000000000008971e705c7cd954c" Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] IPPM slides by end of Tuesday X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 17:18:00 -0000 --0000000000008971e705c7cd954c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" If you're presenting, please ensure the slides are uploaded to the datatracker by the end of Tuesday. If you're having issues uploading them for some reason, email them to the chairs. Thanks, Ian --0000000000008971e705c7cd954c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
If you're presenting, please ensure the slides are upl= oaded to the datatracker by the end of Tuesday.

If you&#= 39;re having issues uploading them for some reason, email them to the chair= s.

Thanks, Ian
--0000000000008971e705c7cd954c-- From nobody Fri Jul 23 11:23:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953C13A11A6 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.552 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.552 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.452, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=apple.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DhIsnjuAceXC for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [17.171.2.68]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2CDAB3A11A8 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com [127.0.0.1]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com (8.16.0.42/8.16.0.42) with SMTP id 16NII3RQ055438 for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:48 -0700 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=apple.com; h=from : content-type : mime-version : subject : message-id : references : to : date; s=20180706; bh=Ir3xWI16vrXYCiS3HGRhyBOL4UtA++CCAyfcbV4QAnA=; b=h7Ai3v4wJNvEh8aoPh6PrtlzXjVGPz/WsVO6snWsN/Omd3IE4E2K7mSYzpHq0uPzyLhE 3biahdXiK75Iw3c6U22J/SoZoU02RjrBaLKvBba2yJS/7YzWoZXAEabJMXz0Ldj/xSO0 edQVPRMVS1urLLzV2e4AKEfWt8QGKrcBXnNF3aiNgn8tmpPD76dZRd/8z7aQvyssCfXi c7Vf9RqMnDwpoVZdsg+dZf5u7SpQq1bm6EdhEIb4E3aDSsGsVpm0ek530v56qn9TUJcf kYODu5n/bpw9DtW3r1HDFBACpKRtGYU5hfp1yBm5o3VSZAYYAk65sK9UZlGsdKeixr9a 3A== Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com [10.225.203.150]) by ma1-aaemail-dr-lapp02.apple.com with ESMTP id 39uuvvxh0f-2 (version=TLSv1.2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128 verify=NO) for ; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:48 -0700 Received: from rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com [17.179.253.15]) by rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) with ESMTPS id <0QWP00BV0N3OA9H0@rn-mailsvcp-mta-lapp02.rno.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from process_milters-daemon.rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) id <0QWP00Q00MV6FT00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Va-A: X-Va-T-CD: de279c0840622e930446fe69a11c94de X-Va-E-CD: 0d1dc786cedc00c74b7f09f50c52d014 X-Va-R-CD: d780168afa8550f8b30fa22c627a6d50 X-Va-CD: 0 X-Va-ID: d6973bce-30fe-40fb-adbf-3b241479e00a X-V-A: X-V-T-CD: de279c0840622e930446fe69a11c94de X-V-E-CD: 0d1dc786cedc00c74b7f09f50c52d014 X-V-R-CD: d780168afa8550f8b30fa22c627a6d50 X-V-CD: 0 X-V-ID: 2d7d14c7-888d-4b74-bbef-91516b827d0f X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-23_09:2021-07-23, 2021-07-23 signatures=0 Received: from smtpclient.apple (unknown [17.11.181.244]) by rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com (Oracle Communications Messaging Server 8.1.0.9.20210415 64bit (built Apr 15 2021)) with ESMTPSA id <0QWP00W5RN3OVT00@rn-mailsvcp-mmp-lapp02.rno.apple.com> for ippm@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:48 -0700 (PDT) From: Tommy Pauly Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_8ADE289C-1829-4FF6-B03E-9DE080B2AD19" MIME-version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.80.0.2.6\)) Message-id: <94C84179-23B2-4D4E-A881-A082C3D00F1C@apple.com> References: <162697548723.29539.13606548374722698291@ietfa.amsl.com> To: "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 11:23:47 -0700 X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.80.0.2.6) X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10434:6.0.391, 18.0.790 definitions=2021-07-23_09:2021-07-23, 2021-07-23 signatures=0 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Fwd: Call for Papers: Measuring Network Quality for End-Users Workshop X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 23 Jul 2021 18:23:56 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_8ADE289C-1829-4FF6-B03E-9DE080B2AD19 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi IPPM, If you haven=E2=80=99t seen it yet, the IAB is holding a workshop on = measuring network quality. This is a topic for which IPPM has a lot of = expertise, so I hope you can submit papers and join! Submissions are due by August 2, details below.=20 Best, Tommy > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: IAB Executive Administrative Manager > Subject: Reminder: Call for Papers: Measuring Network Quality for = End-Users Workshop > Date: July 22, 2021 at 10:38:07 AM PDT > To: "IETF Announcement List" > Reply-To: network-quality-workshop-pc@iab.org >=20 > Measuring Network Quality for End-Users Workshop >=20 > An Internet Architecture Board virtual workshop >=20 > Web page: https://www.iab.org/activities/workshops/network-quality/ >=20 > Call for Papers >=20 > The Internet in 2021 is quite different from what it was 10 years ago.=20= > Today, it is a crucial part of everyone=E2=80=99s daily life. People = use the=20 > Internet for their social life, for their daily jobs, for routine=20 > shopping, and for keeping up with major events. An increasing number = of=20 > people can access a Gigabit connection, which would be hard to imagine = a=20 > decade ago. And, thanks to improvements in security, people trust the=20= > Internet for both planning their finances and for everyday payments. >=20 > At the same time, some aspects of end-user experience have not = improved=20 > as much. Many users have typical connection latency that remains at=20 > decade-old levels. Despite significant reliability improvements in = data=20 > center environments, end users often see interruptions in service.=20 > Transport improvements, such as QUIC, Multipath TCP, and TCP Fast Open=20= > are still not fully supported in some networks. Likewise, various=20 > advances in the security and privacy of user data are not widely=20 > supported, such as encrypted DNS to the local resolver. >=20 > We believe that one of the major factors behind this lack of progress = is=20 > the popular perception that throughput is the often sole measure of = the=20 > quality of Internet connectivity. With such narrow focus, people = don=E2=80=99t=20 > consider questions such as: >=20 > =E2=80=A2 What is the latency under typical working conditions? > =E2=80=A2 How reliable is the connectivity across longer time = periods? > =E2=80=A2 Does the network allow the use of a broad range of = protocols? > =E2=80=A2 What services can be run by clients of the network? > =E2=80=A2 What kind of IPv4, NAT or IPv6 connectivity is offered, and = are=20 > there firewalls? > =E2=80=A2 What security mechanisms are available for local services, = such as=20 > DNS? > =E2=80=A2 To what degree are the privacy, confidentiality, integrity = and=20 > authenticity of user communications guarded? >=20 > Improving these aspects of network quality will likely depend on=20 > measurement and exposing metrics to all involved parties, including to=20= > end users in a meaningful way. Such measurements and exposure of the=20= > right metrics will allow service providers and network operators to=20 > focus on the aspects that impacts the users=E2=80=99 experience most = and at the=20 > same time empowers users to choose the Internet service that will give=20= > them the best experience. >=20 > The IAB is holding this workshop to convene interested researchers,=20 > network operators, and Internet technologists to share their = experiences=20 > and to collaborate on the steps needed to define properties and = metrics=20 > with the goal of improving Internet access for all users. >=20 > The workshop will discuss the following questions: >=20 > 1. What are the fundamental properties of a network that contribute to=20= > good user experience? > 2. What metrics quantify these properties, and how to collect such=20 > metrics in a practical way? > 3. What are the best practices for interpreting those metrics, and=20 > incorporating those in a decision making process? > 4. What are the best ways to communicate these properties to service=20= > providers and network operators? > 5. How can these metrics be displayed to users in a meaningful way? >=20 > We realize that the answers to these questions will vary depending on=20= > the different experiences of the participants. For example, a = commercial=20 > video streaming platform may prioritize higher throughput and to rely = on=20 > latency-hiding techniques, while a massively-multiplayer online game = may=20 > prioritize lower jitter, and invest into techniques for graceful=20 > degradation of the user experience in case of reduced network = capacity.=20 > At the same time, researchers from the academia may be looking at=20 > properties and metrics that haven=E2=80=99t been adopted by the = industry at all.=20 > Likewise, participants may endorse different methodologies for=20 > interpreting the metrics and for making decisions. We are actively=20 > looking for identifying such methodologies and for capturing the=20 > respective best practices. >=20 > While this workshop isn=E2=80=99t focusing on the solution space, we = are=20 > welcoming submissions that dive into particular technologies, to the=20= > extent of helping to set the context for the discussion. Comparing the=20= > merits of specific solutions, however, is outside of the workshop=E2=80=99= s=20 > scope. >=20 > Interested participants are invited to submit position papers on the=20= > workshop questions. Paper size is not limited, but brevity is=20 > encouraged. Interested participants who have published relevant = academic=20 > papers may submit these as a position paper, optionally with a short=20= > abstract. The workshop itself will be a virtual meeting over several=20= > sessions, with focused discussion based on the position paper topics=20= > received. >=20 > Logistics >=20 > =E2=80=A2 Submissions Due: Monday 2nd August 2021, midnight AOE = (Anywhere On=20 > Earth) > =E2=80=A2 Invitations Issued by: Monday 16th August 2021 > =E2=80=A2 Workshop Date: This will be a virtual workshop, spread over = three=20 > days: > - 1400-1800 UTC Tue 14th September 2021 > - 1400-1800 UTC Wed 15th September 2021 > - 1400-1800 UTC Thu 16th September 2021 >=20 > Workshop co-chairs: Wes Hardaker, Eugeny Khorov, Omer Shapira >=20 > The Program Committee members: >=20 > Jari Arkko, Olivier Bonaventure, Vint Cerf, Stuart Cheshire, Sam=20 > Crowford, Nick Feamster, Jim Gettys, Toke Hoiland-Jorgensen, Geoff=20 > Huston, Cullen Jennings, Mirja Kuehlewind, Jason Livingood, Matt=20 > Mathias, Randall Meyer, Kathleen Nichols, Christoph Paasch, Tommy = Pauly,=20 > Greg White, Keith Winstein. >=20 > Send Submissions to: network-quality-workshop-pc@iab.org. >=20 > Position papers from academia, industry, the open source community and=20= > others that focus on measurements, experiences, observations and = advice=20 > for the future are welcome. Papers that reflect experience based on=20 > deployed services are especially welcome. The organizers understand = that=20 > specific actions taken by operators are unlikely to be discussed in=20 > detail, so papers discussing general categories of actions and issues=20= > without naming specific technologies, products, or other players in = the=20 > ecosystem are expected. Papers should not focus on specific protocol=20= > solutions. >=20 > The workshop will be by invitation only. Those wishing to attend = should=20 > submit a position paper to the address above; it may take the form of = an=20 > Internet-Draft. >=20 > All inputs submitted and considered relevant will be published on the=20= > workshop website. The organisers will decide whom to invite based on = the=20 > submissions received. Sessions will be organized according to content,=20= > and not every accepted submission or invited attendee will have an=20 > opportunity to present as the intent is to foster discussion and not=20= > simply to have a sequence of presentations. >=20 > Position papers from those not planning to attend the virtual sessions=20= > themselves are also encouraged. A workshop report will be published=20 > afterwards. >=20 > _______________________________________________ > IETF-Announce mailing list > IETF-Announce@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce --Apple-Mail=_8ADE289C-1829-4FF6-B03E-9DE080B2AD19 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi = IPPM,

If you = haven=E2=80=99t seen it yet, the IAB is holding a workshop on measuring = network quality. This is a topic for which IPPM has a lot of expertise, = so I hope you can submit papers and join!

Submissions are due by August 2, = details below. 

Best,
Tommy

Begin forwarded = message:

From: = IAB Executive Administrative = Manager <execd@iab.org>
Subject: = Reminder: Call = for Papers: Measuring Network Quality for End-Users Workshop
Date: = July 22, 2021 at 10:38:07 AM = PDT
To: = "IETF Announcement List" <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
Reply-To: = network-quality-workshop-pc@iab.org

Measuring Network Quality for End-Users Workshop

An Internet Architecture Board virtual = workshop

Web page: https://www.iab.org/activities/workshops/network-quality/
Call for Papers

The Internet in 2021 is quite different from what it was 10 = years ago.
Today, it is a crucial part of everyone=E2=80=99= s daily life. People use the
Internet for their social = life, for their daily jobs, for routine
shopping, and for = keeping up with major events. An increasing number of
people can access a Gigabit connection, which would be hard = to imagine a
decade ago. And, thanks to improvements in = security, people trust the
Internet for both planning = their finances and for everyday payments.

At = the same time, some aspects of end-user experience have not improved
as much. Many users have typical connection latency that = remains at
decade-old levels. Despite significant = reliability improvements in data
center environments, end = users often see interruptions in service.
Transport = improvements, such as QUIC, Multipath TCP, and TCP Fast Open
are still not fully supported in some networks. Likewise, = various
advances in the security and privacy of user data = are not widely
supported, such as encrypted DNS to the = local resolver.

We believe that one of the = major factors behind this lack of progress is
the popular = perception that throughput is the often sole measure of the
quality of Internet connectivity. With such narrow focus, = people don=E2=80=99t
consider questions such as:

 =E2=80=A2 What is the latency under = typical working conditions?
 =E2=80=A2 How reliable = is the connectivity across longer time periods?
 =E2=80= =A2 Does the network allow the use of a broad range of protocols?
 =E2=80=A2 What services can be run by clients of the = network?
 =E2=80=A2 What kind of IPv4, NAT or IPv6 = connectivity is offered, and are
   there = firewalls?
 =E2=80=A2 What security mechanisms are = available for local services, such as
=    DNS?
 =E2=80=A2 To what degree are = the privacy, confidentiality, integrity and
=    authenticity of user communications guarded?

Improving these aspects of network quality = will likely depend on
measurement and exposing metrics to = all involved parties, including to
end users in a = meaningful way. Such measurements and exposure of the
right= metrics will allow service providers and network operators to
focus on the aspects that impacts the users=E2=80=99 = experience most and at the
same time empowers users to = choose the Internet service that will give
them the best = experience.

The IAB is holding this = workshop to convene interested researchers,
network = operators, and Internet technologists to share their experiences
and to collaborate on the steps needed to define properties = and metrics
with the goal of improving Internet access = for all users.

The workshop will discuss = the following questions:

1. What are the = fundamental properties of a network that contribute to
=    good user experience?
2. What metrics = quantify these properties, and how to collect such
=    metrics in a practical way?
3. What are = the best practices for interpreting those metrics, and
=    incorporating those in a decision making process?
4. What are the best ways to communicate these properties to = service
   providers and network = operators?
5. How can these metrics be displayed to users = in a meaningful way?

We realize that the = answers to these questions will vary depending on
the = different experiences of the participants. For example, a commercial
video streaming platform may prioritize higher throughput and = to rely on
latency-hiding techniques, while a = massively-multiplayer online game may
prioritize lower = jitter, and invest into techniques for graceful
degradation= of the user experience in case of reduced network capacity.
At the same time, researchers from the academia may be = looking at
properties and metrics that haven=E2=80=99t = been adopted by the industry at all.
Likewise, = participants may endorse different methodologies for
interpreting the metrics and for making decisions. We are = actively
looking for identifying such methodologies and = for capturing the
respective best practices.

While this workshop isn=E2=80=99t focusing on = the solution space, we are
welcoming submissions that = dive into particular technologies, to the
extent of = helping to set the context for the discussion. Comparing the
merits of specific solutions, however, is outside of the = workshop=E2=80=99s
scope.

Interested participants are invited to submit position papers = on the
workshop questions. Paper size is not limited, but = brevity is
encouraged. Interested participants who have = published relevant academic
papers may submit these as a = position paper, optionally with a short
abstract. The = workshop itself will be a virtual meeting over several
sessions, with focused discussion based on the position paper = topics
received.

Logistics

 =E2=80=A2 Submissions Due: Monday 2nd = August 2021, midnight AOE (Anywhere On
=    Earth)
 =E2=80=A2 Invitations = Issued by: Monday 16th August 2021
 =E2=80=A2 = Workshop Date: This will be a virtual workshop, spread over three
   days:
   - = 1400-1800 UTC Tue 14th September 2021
   - = 1400-1800 UTC Wed 15th September 2021
   - = 1400-1800 UTC Thu 16th September 2021

Workshop co-chairs: Wes Hardaker, Eugeny Khorov, Omer = Shapira

The Program Committee members:

Jari Arkko, Olivier Bonaventure, Vint Cerf, = Stuart Cheshire, Sam
Crowford, Nick Feamster, Jim Gettys, = Toke Hoiland-Jorgensen, Geoff
Huston, Cullen Jennings, = Mirja Kuehlewind, Jason Livingood, Matt
Mathias, Randall = Meyer, Kathleen Nichols, Christoph Paasch, Tommy Pauly,
Greg White, Keith Winstein.

Send = Submissions to: network-quality-workshop-pc@iab.org.

Position papers from academia, industry, the open source = community and
others that focus on measurements, = experiences, observations and advice
for the future are = welcome. Papers that reflect experience based on
deployed = services are especially welcome. The organizers understand that
specific actions taken by operators are unlikely to be = discussed in
detail, so papers discussing general = categories of actions and issues
without naming specific = technologies, products, or other players in the
ecosystem = are expected. Papers should not focus on specific protocol
solutions.

The workshop will be = by invitation only. Those wishing to attend should
submit = a position paper to the address above; it may take the form of an
Internet-Draft.

All inputs = submitted and considered relevant will be published on the
workshop website. The organisers will decide whom to invite = based on the
submissions received. Sessions will be = organized according to content,
and not every accepted = submission or invited attendee will have an
opportunity = to present as the intent is to foster discussion and not
simply to have a sequence of presentations.

Position papers from those not planning to attend the virtual = sessions
themselves are also encouraged. A workshop = report will be published
afterwards.

_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce

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ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B801E3A198A; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:03:28 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.35.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162719660867.8694.3544916113925914217@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:03:28 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-05.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:03:29 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : In-situ OAM Flags Authors : Tal Mizrahi Frank Brockners Shwetha Bhandari Ramesh Sivakolundu Carlos Pignataro Aviv Kfir Barak Gafni Mickey Spiegel Jennifer Lemon Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-05.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2021-07-25 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet traverses a path between two points in the network. This document presents new flags in the IOAM Trace Option headers. Specifically, the document defines the Loopback and Active flags. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-05 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags-05 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jul 25 00:08:19 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CE613A19B2 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:08:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FkuD7issMA1U for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr1-x42b.google.com (mail-wr1-x42b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 28D393A19AF for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:08:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42b.google.com with SMTP id b9so6204345wrx.12 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:08:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=/g4bpnBA6/G65zY1IFLreKjh20Ts7dB7WHenFL7NZwM=; b=jTI2ZNokLPMQuHtx4zW0xzBLdKVJ/uq7pA9PrLHj6aoLyw4TKy6a/OX7HcpPFBu4M4 PyZQU8qEKfcJsgG7L/WszyOPonmX9MhegqTzSYMRCHSVPe1tqtlfw6yN7fZaZkeyRBP/ bXhCVnX0jL+uqPUhOy+2LsLHDG2kzuy1c3WvVfdg3n/GO6p0Ph1yBTeYlRG7xLDlxpmu Wf9a69qe9IgBznodDUOkEH40Jm2gbhX1PGq0EnD+sCrPwe0/x0YDupEE7mQ9xT0G20+d nCtv6Ehf1bLnVTaVreVANv63uL/E6tbSOlwOb5nWIN3FLQIXaeVkP/HndFGR6o8cRDdZ GYqQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=/g4bpnBA6/G65zY1IFLreKjh20Ts7dB7WHenFL7NZwM=; b=kJaTT6RPxHS/oYSC61X/mhY84wbpJR0uosKelzeJDXYCtE/QAO6npYMUlyggUKQm1i upyuzhISsUbWve86+SqRwVtR0lvBIhMrREkbtMeJDQ1Dk7izw/wt19yJLOOTOSfJl4AI 4QIiyop2hSEPln5S5SJv7CGYVbfYbXp8Cn8cQFEkMhzMQgwZl8tyuFXBCQxivd2A0CeQ 2PGlk453yhOsKNL5Jd/suIrRnCAZjOTyRaaLUH07tx+hzZCrQ3PVEod9BqRU5RJCckg3 Zli1ig8E2/I5699SD5k12j+r4ouUoS85EPqypFoYxbeHXHR49BPqD0ktexz2l2vHGg1F 8e2A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM531epApPLObIz1CTGibFOrxxRGWJNnTM/Riqvhfs2fFxV01QtQ01 8cVWkbddk+AgigX15q0G9qAP/yCuBgYPMNAAXDkMLy4iaOYefQ== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxysYz1Ov1Q3ltgHEvI4GYaknBh5OIsEP//WwLEUG7hIZyq5RQp7/wN0ZUxM3WVlWlgdclNurxt84r6gPR4vCo= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6000:186e:: with SMTP id d14mr12814118wri.188.1627196890358; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 00:08:10 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Tal Mizrahi Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 10:07:59 +0300 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] IOAM flag draft version 05 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:08:18 -0000 Hi, Version 05 of draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags was posted. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags The main changes are related to the security discussion we have had on the mailing list and in IETF 110. The changes are along the lines of the recent changes to the DEX draft. Cheers, Tal. From nobody Sun Jul 25 07:29:13 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1380C3A2BE5; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:29:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.35.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162722334796.4506.12768633863171152748@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:29:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:29:08 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Simple TWAMP (STAMP) Extensions for Segment Routing Networks Authors : Rakesh Gandhi Clarence Filsfils Daniel Voyer Mach(Guoyi) Chen Bart Janssens Richard Foote Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2021-07-25 Abstract: Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm. SR is applicable to both Multiprotocol Label Switching (SR-MPLS) and IPv6 (SRv6) forwarding planes. This document specifies RFC 8762 (Simple Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP)) extensions for SR networks, for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 forwarding planes by augmenting the optional extensions defined in RFC 8972. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sun Jul 25 07:35:18 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 767F33A2C13 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:35:16 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wc2ISfXlY4gy for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lf1-x12e.google.com (mail-lf1-x12e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::12e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A58843A2C12 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:35:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lf1-x12e.google.com with SMTP id g13so10490623lfj.12 for ; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:35:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=K85TflE3am0k9RQPtoT5PXatqmFVS2NGRjgqWRMZJMo=; b=nRgZpQ/wP0bdjQgG9/T9JnYY0c5DqmCTYBl3/grbRqW3zybyyDb645ldCdJnsccxLz O74uW9HzVSkaodU0mzcl7OKMBsfif7sIyxXjVwhnUx8F8Fhf7UM5laxFaCn9wfQ7vp0I DA8YZhvsUODhPmJq07Sfa0FmdmdmaaQNFzsU6T7PZsHiDIeHXQUV2LBXRtuUuQyiNOXQ 8NfHWZvm6hI70Ip0GQVIWM3UkoU5L02YSVfTtaAw/Lnc85cGbmRCfUsSwgXwNpGEqWSJ DBOIxciq7ftKMiMhtOP5fs6zMVqvzEJ8zVeuR69Qhl9qEvstI282PI3WNi5GvFCZyish 2ggg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to; bh=K85TflE3am0k9RQPtoT5PXatqmFVS2NGRjgqWRMZJMo=; b=lzcLISAaUDXyF+oBTmmsojkcts3C/UKQoS8OeayHhrcD+PvslL3c8AuzYXGxBA+Ufy EdyAA5ImxIjHVzGOMu4oMOnterhytOZLbCR/KdA44uZkG5evB0oZt5Lyf714nX7HNP2s sx+SDc6qRe6wq6d+KmYFOnod2e7woatd88ynGokBcjGDsDfa21rMO4ZvUo6K9Y742eXB zixGueVi6ZcFwhgfn38V7rg88Xt9kD4RGaA535tDxFYo9+tBR9JFOJtLHxXG+MHBVzmy tSDvR4KMLZEI06VaYgKBQJ249ydPNTZg9kOzDccrXvPoo33j84hwSxZ+MbDZj4qBdrm4 Y9qA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533TcTTHceF0LqIlw7pSt86bD71r5bubQZ07AkVhNzxtUcLjvQIF yr3B/a6QHmopPTodik+r2VrGCD+YIpa2Jqt4qyJGerx5VBHg X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJwDvcA/qtbsVWZT/31yGFvYm8LTT4n267Bio+zZNNjdwOK9RCyZzi1B9FDZ6owl6RS49Xa8esqd8N/EOukyGHo= X-Received: by 2002:a19:c184:: with SMTP id r126mr1103871lff.343.1627223708884; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 07:35:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <162722334796.4506.12768633863171152748@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <162722334796.4506.12768633863171152748@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Rakesh Gandhi Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 10:34:57 -0400 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000235f9105c7f38bd6" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 14:35:17 -0000 --000000000000235f9105c7f38bd6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi WG, This version of the draft contains following updates: 1. Security Section: =E2=80=93 address comment: "man-in-the-middle" (MIM) might break th= e assumption "normally" and must be considered.=E2=80=9D 2. IANA Section: Add STAMP TLV Flag =E2=80=93 Error Flag D (Wrong Destination) 3. Minor editorial changes Welcome your review comments and suggestions. Thanks, Rakesh (on-behalf of authors) On Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 10:30 AM wrote: > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IET= F. > > Title : Simple TWAMP (STAMP) Extensions for Segment > Routing Networks > Authors : Rakesh Gandhi > Clarence Filsfils > Daniel Voyer > Mach(Guoyi) Chen > Bart Janssens > Richard Foote > Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01.txt > Pages : 13 > Date : 2021-07-25 > > Abstract: > Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm. SR is > applicable to both Multiprotocol Label Switching (SR-MPLS) and IPv6 > (SRv6) forwarding planes. This document specifies RFC 8762 (Simple > Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP)) extensions for SR > networks, for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 forwarding planes by augmenting > the optional extensions defined in RFC 8972. > > > The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm/ > > There is also an htmlized version available at: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01 > > A diff from the previous version is available at: > https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01 > > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > > _______________________________________________ > ippm mailing list > ippm@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm > --000000000000235f9105c7f38bd6 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi WG,
This version of the draft contains following upd= ates:

1. Security Section:<= /span>

<= font size=3D"2">= =E2=80=93=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0 address comment:=C2=A0 "man-in-the-middle" (MIM) might break the assumption "normally" and must be considere= d.=E2=80=9D

2. =C2=A0 IANA Section: Add STAMP TLV Flag

<= font size=3D"2">= =E2=80=93=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Error Flag D (Wrong Destination)

=

3. =C2=A0=C2=A0 Minor editorial changes


Welcome your review comments and suggestions.<= /font>

Thanks,
Rakesh (on-behalf of authors)=





On= Sun, Jul 25, 2021 at 10:30 AM <internet-drafts@ietf.org> wrote:

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.=

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Title=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= Simple TWAMP (STAMP) Extensions for Segment Routing Networks
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Authors=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0: Rake= sh Gandhi
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Clarence Filsfils
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Daniel Voyer
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Mach(Guoyi) Chen
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Bart Janssens
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Richard Foote
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Filename=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 : draft-iet= f-ippm-stamp-srpm-01.txt
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Pages=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0:= 13
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Date=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 := 2021-07-25

Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Segment Routing (SR) leverages the source routing paradigm.=C2= =A0 SR is
=C2=A0 =C2=A0applicable to both Multiprotocol Label Switching (SR-MPLS) and= IPv6
=C2=A0 =C2=A0(SRv6) forwarding planes.=C2=A0 This document specifies RFC 87= 62 (Simple
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Two-Way Active Measurement Protocol (STAMP)) extensions for SR=
=C2=A0 =C2=A0networks, for both SR-MPLS and SRv6 forwarding planes by augme= nting
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the optional extensions defined in RFC 8972.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-i= etf-ippm-stamp-srpm/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/= html/draft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2= =3Ddraft-ietf-ippm-stamp-srpm-01


Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
--000000000000235f9105c7f38bd6-- From nobody Sun Jul 25 18:20:26 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E06A93A129A; Sun, 25 Jul 2021 18:20:20 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.35.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162726242087.22893.1864493685689554571@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 25 Jul 2021 18:20:20 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state-00.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 26 Jul 2021 01:20:21 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : Echo Request/Reply for Enabled In-situ OAM Capabilities Authors : Xiao Min Greg Mirsky Lei Bo Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state-00.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2021-07-25 Abstract: This document describes an extension to the echo request/reply mechanisms used in IPv6, MPLS, SFC and BIER environments, which can be used within an IOAM domain, allowing the IOAM encapsulating node to acquire the enabled IOAM capabilities of each IOAM transit node and/or IOAM decapsulating node. 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charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi all, we would like to point out this work on Explicit Flow Measurements which wil= l be presented at the ANRW/IRTF session tomorrow 27 July at 19:00-21:00 UTC. In this paper by the RWTH Aachen University team entitled "L, Q, R, and T -= Which Spin Bit Cousin is here to stay?" they present the results of the imp= lementation and comparison of all the packet loss measurement methodologies= described in the draft https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measureme= nts Here the ANRW program: https://irtf.org/anrw/2021/program.html Best Regards, Massimo _____________________ Massimo Nilo TIM - Telecom Italia Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274 10148 - Torino (Italy) _____________________ TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati. Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pers= one indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla= conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbia= te ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne= immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G= razie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged i= nformation intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, print= ing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender= by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. --_000_DB9PR07MB79290DC24E1F393AEE53D463E5E89DB9PR07MB7929eurp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

we would like to point out this= work on Explicit Flow Measurements which will be presented at the ANRW/IRTF= session tomorrow 27 July at 19:00-21:00 UTC.

 

In this paper by the RWTH Aachen= University team entitled "L, Q, R, and T - Which Spin Bit Cousin is he= re to stay?" they present the results of the implementation and compari= son of all the packet loss measurement methodologies described in the draft

 

https://datatrac= ker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measurements

 

 

Here the ANRW program:

https://irtf.org/anrw/2021/program.html

 

Best Regards,<= /p>

Massimo

_____________________

Massimo Nilo

TIM - Telecom Italia

Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274

10148 - Torino (Italy)

_____________________

 

 

 


TIM - Uso Interno= - Tutti i diritti riservati.


Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle= persone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante d= alla conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora a= bbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di da= rne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie.

This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privil= eged information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying,= printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intende= d recipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the s= ender by return e-mail, Thanks.

Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non è necessa= rio.
--_000_DB9PR07MB79290DC24E1F393AEE53D463E5E89DB9PR07MB7929eurp_-- From nobody Wed Jul 28 06:25:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 157B93A1025 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 06:25:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_BLOCKED=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id SGqnUY3GbP4U for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 06:25:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-lj1-x231.google.com (mail-lj1-x231.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::231]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9BA183A102B for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 06:24:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-lj1-x231.google.com with SMTP id n6so3054262ljp.9 for ; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 06:24:52 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vDEObfI3KxCz0LXzKOEkFmB8JLVJJJKEnot5sOWhvMA=; b=UgU1oHGhQGg8nzfMLQCI+mZwnsxykRJPHqDST1Uc0g+UIXUfn/g+HYGQET5p26X5jb Jl2IsFcuu6yFExrTVYLEONx1/+54QrMYGdcC+BFzJf6tgIb9f6eWJveyuOQi3xD6hY60 1b5rc1F1WaqxUnC/B7IQ2vM1SU3DpjZGfnS9bPNp26HuLsA7uQX4h9iUZRzzLjfgS4vm ymAMpbDxU/ryqXnnkJVu3a3hkRd/1FjtOgSLbD3dQlg8Q1iK5tF2optG4a6hS+ji/7O4 FqT3oIe81DUi7gFnkuNcmJDFO6xf/4+60ZVliSko3v8u/JwGhDvcLPwsQ+9hcYn2MCiB RyJw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:from:date:message-id:subject:to; bh=vDEObfI3KxCz0LXzKOEkFmB8JLVJJJKEnot5sOWhvMA=; b=OGEKYfSWEGahOqv0kYR2z9mCJfHDF5ng63ZQ5eTIcetRhQMsgrnPUPwuJMkuJa0Sxk WwE7QLm5MmCTxUg34FKl5mR0cUx3pJBZnnfZSsptnKzA8+vfQcj6LBe7rIyHLNNY+Xtr oPEzZKDmEwrBLtNTMo1Vq92+rBkW/YtQnpev568vMudxSgiZyfAN3CoDx4HzJ00wkcTc qXjohLb9FQxzAirhHHFZGifnIDWuLvmfuzRKK3D4pUyJkBGwYd85xFA3/Xf/qD44uePb pkjoNsIeX1Gs+intsOzp1rOuMa009vRXMIWlrh7e+JuJmA3tijsuIyN4hOlSJXKV4Erl NB1A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530o88WSrz65Pk5RykEE6CE4fyEWbjgis67lgtErQRDpwpMeXHnT 426QtcOPE0KjqsaEPr1VYOA8Qzido3YxwLHRILBYaDdO6WQC X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJy64NZREYh7dpXFYq4GFiQn7L80mgvVKifTe5hxR/BHaXfJ937vMNncWxr8ZWw5v/7IAtadUzW+BawQD7pOu6Q= X-Received: by 2002:a2e:a414:: with SMTP id p20mr16771056ljn.207.1627478683886; Wed, 28 Jul 2021 06:24:43 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Rakesh Gandhi Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 09:24:33 -0400 Message-ID: To: IETF IPPM WG Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000d52b6c05c82ee8c1" Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] Welcome comments on https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gandhi-ippm-simple-direct-loss-00 X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 13:25:31 -0000 --000000000000d52b6c05c82ee8c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Hi WG, We have uploaded the following presentation for the draft-gandhi-ippm-simple-direct-loss-00. https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/111/materials/slides-111-ippm-simple-two-way-direct-loss-measurement-procedure-00 This is on the agenda for lightning talk today in the IPPM WG session. If you have any feedback on the new DM TLV proposal, please let us know. Appreciate your comments and suggestions. Thanks, Rakesh (on-behalf of authors) --000000000000d52b6c05c82ee8c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi WG,

We have uploaded the = following presentation for the draft-gandhi-ippm-simple-direct-loss-00.


This is on the agenda for lightning talk today in the IPPM WG session. If = you have any feedback on the new DM TLV proposal, please let us know.

Appreciate your comments and suggestions.

Thanks,
Rakesh (on-behalf of authors)
<= div>

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Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:00:50 +0000 Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:00:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Ameya Deshpande To: IETF IPPM WG , Tommy Pauly Message-ID: <1074239117.615116.1627495246916@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: References: <162256330634.19677.3885804345914692467@ietfa.amsl.com> <28584824.2341925.1622563579715@mail.yahoo.com> <721002155.671981.1625161479360@mail.yahoo.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_615115_747088699.1627495246913" X-Mailer: WebService/1.1.18749 YMailNorrin Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Side meeting for PDMv2 and HPKE X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 28 Jul 2021 18:01:08 -0000 ------=_Part_615115_747088699.1627495246913 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi IPPM, Greetings! We are about to start the side meeting on PDMv2 and HPKE in 5 mins. Zoom link: https://zoom.us/j/7058470584?pwd=3DSURkcmxIcHRqWVBiTVI0SXJJYS84d= z09 Thanks,Ameya Deshpande On Wednesday, 7 July, 2021, 8:52:28 am IST, Tommy Pauly wrote: =20 =20 Hi IPPM, To help discuss the PDMv2 proposal, and clarify the use of HPKE, Nalini has= set up a side meeting during the IETF 111 week on Wednesday July 28 at 18:= 00 UTC. Details are here: https://trac.ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/111sidemeetings If you=E2=80=99re interested or have been engaging so far, I encourage you = to show up! Best,Tommy (as IPPM co-chair) On Jul 1, 2021, at 10:44 AM, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com wrote: IPPM, Please do take a look at this draft. I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We have spent q= uite a bit of time thinking over these issues.=C2=A0 We even have 2 cryptog= raphers from Italy involved as co-authors.=C2=A0 =C2=A0I want to do a side = meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would l= ove to have comments from the group on the list. I am very reluctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.= =C2=A0 I feel that we will become the attacker's best friend. We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say, without encr= yption, we do not wish to release. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 On Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com= wrote:=20 Hello IPPMers! We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM data.=C2=A0 =C2=A0We feel th= at this is an important feature to add before promoting widespread adoption= of PDM. We would appreciate any thoughts or comments from the group. Thanks, Nalini Elkins CEO and Founder Inside Products, Inc. www.insidethestack.com (831) 659-8360 ----- Forwarded Message ----- From: "internet-drafts@ietf.org" To: mackermann@bcbsm.com ; Adnan Rashid ; Ameya Deshpande ; Michael Ackermann ; Nalini Elkins ; Tommaso = Pecorella Sent: Tuesday, June 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT Subject: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.= txt A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the IETF repository. Name:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2 Revision:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 00 Title:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Encrypted IPv6 Performance and = Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option Document date:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 2021-06-01 Group:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Individual Submission Pages:=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 16 URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://www.ietf.org/archive/= id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-e= lkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 Abstract: =C2=A0 RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedde= d =C2=A0 in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as =C2=A0 a basis for measurements.=C2=A0 As this data is sent in clear- text,= this =C2=A0 may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information fo= r =C2=A0 subsequent attacks.=C2=A0 This document defines PDMv2 which has a =C2=A0 lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to =C2=A0 secure this data.=C2=A0 Additional performance metrics which may be = of use =C2=A0 are also defined. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0=20 The IETF Secretariat _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm _______________________________________________ ippm mailing list ippm@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm =20 ------=_Part_615115_747088699.1627495246913 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi IPPM,

G= reetings!

We are about to start the side meeting on PDMv2 and HPKE in 5 mins.


Thanks,
Ameya Deshpande

=20
=20
On Wednesday, 7 July, 2021, 8:52:28 am IST, Tommy Pauly= <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:


Hi IPPM,

To help discuss the PDMv2 proposal, and clarify the use = of HPKE, Nalini has set up a side meeting during the IETF 111 week on Wedne= sday July 28 at 18:00 UTC.

Details are= here:

https://trac.= ietf.org/trac/ietf/meeting/wiki/111sidemeetings

If you=E2=80=99re interested or have been engaging so far, I = encourage you to show up!

Best,
<= div class=3D"yiv4354502247">Tommy (as IPPM co-chair)

On Jul 1, 202= 1, at 10:44 AM, nalini.elki= ns@insidethestack.com wrote:

IPPM,

Please do take a look at this draft.

I think that iOAM will need encryption as well.   We have spent= quite a bit of time thinking over these issues.  We even have 2 crypt= ographers from Italy involved as co-authors.   I want to do a sid= e meeting where we can have quite a bit more time to discuss this but would= love to have comments from the group on the list.

I am very relu= ctant to push PDM out to the wider world without encryption.  I feel t= hat we will become the attacker's best friend.
We have modified the Linux kernel to include PDM but as I say= , without encryption, we do not wish to release.


Thanks,

Nalini Elkins
CEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
<= a rel=3D"nofollow noopener noreferrer" shape=3D"rect" class=3D"yiv435450224= 7" target=3D"_blank" href=3D"http://www.insidethestack.com">www.insidethest= ack.com
(831) 659-8360






On Tue= sday, June 1, 2021, 09:06:39 AM PDT, nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com <n= alini.elkins@insidethestack.com> wrote:





Hello IPPMers!

We have just posted a new draft to encrypt PDM d= ata.   We feel that this is an important feature to add before pr= omoting widespread adoption of PDM.

We would appreciate any thoug= hts or comments from the group.
<= br class=3D"yiv4354502247" clear=3D"none">Thanks,

Nalini ElkinsCEO and Founder
Inside Products, Inc.
www.insidethestack.com
(831) 659-8360






----- Forwarded Message -----

From: "internet-d= rafts@ietf.org" <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
To: mackermann@bcbsm.com <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Adna= n Rashid <adnan.rashid@unifi.it>; Ameya Deshpande <ameyanrd@gmail.= com>; Michael Ackermann <mackermann@bcbsm.com>; Nalini Elkins <= nalini.elkins@insidethestack.com>; Tommaso Pecorella <tommaso.pecorel= la@unifi.it>
Sent: Tuesday, Ju= ne 1, 2021, 12:01:47 PM EDT
Subje= ct: New Version Notification for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt


A new version of I-D, draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv= 2-00.txt
has been successfully su= bmitted by Nalini Elkins and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:      &n= bsp; draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2
Revision:    00
Title:        Encrypted IPv6 Performance = and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (EPDMv2) Destination Option
Document date:    2021-06-01
Group:      = ;  Individual Submission
Pag= es:        16
URL:            https://www.ietf.o= rg/archive/id/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
Status:        https://datatracke= r.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
Htmlized:      https://datatracker.ietf.org= /doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2


Abstract:
&= nbsp; RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedded=
  in each packet to provide= sequence numbers and timing information as
  a basis for measurements.  As this data is sent in c= lear- text, this
  may creat= e an opportunity for malicious actors to get information for
  subsequent attacks.  This document = defines PDMv2 which has a
  = lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to
  secure this data.  Additional= performance metrics which may be of use
  are also defined.

        &n= bsp;                     =                      = ;                     &nb= sp;        
=

The IETF Secretariat
<= br class=3D"yiv4354502247" clear=3D"none">


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X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 09:01:09 -0000 Hi Martin and All. I would like to answer your question from yesterday IPPM session in a more d= etailed way. If I understood well your question is: "Which bits, at the end, we suggest to use among all those proposed in the d= raft for explicit performance measures?" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measurem= ents-02) Taking for granted that the usable space consists of 3 bits I would say to u= se 1 bit for RTT and 2 bits for Packet Loss. Starting from the results of Aachen University ANRW paper (https://arxiv.org= /pdf/2106.13710.pdf) we can say that, for Packet Loss, 1 bit is not enough: . T-bit is not a so accurate measurement. . Q-bit is not an end-to-end measure. . L-bit does not allow the localization of the impairment. So the best proposition, in our opinion, is to use 2 bits. The 1st is definitely the Q-bit, coupled either with L-bit or with R-bit. The L-bit is very accurate and works well even with short sessions, but it i= s a signal of the losses recorded by the protocol, not an independent measur= e. If you want a protocol independent measurement you need to use R-bit, which= even with some limitations in the case of short sessions (it needs to wait= for the completion of a Q period on one side of the connection before refle= cting it on the other) has proven to work quite well. We now come to RTT measurement, considering in particular the QUIC protocol,= where there is already a standardized bit, even if not mandatory, on this m= easure. The Spin bit, albeit with some limitations in case of impairments (in partic= ular out-of-sequence) and the fact that it "mixes" the application delay wit= h the network delay, has proved to work quite well. The problem is that, up= to now, it has not been implemented and in the QUIC traffic on the network= it is not present. It is a question of understanding the reasons for this fact. If the issue of privacy is the main problem, the proposal of the D-bit, in t= he version with Hidden RTT, could be considered for the next version of QUIC= protocol. BR. Mauro _____________________ Mauro Cociglio TIM - CI.TIS.IPT Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274 10148 - Torino (Italy) Tel.: +390112285028 Mobile: +393357669751 _____________________ TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati. Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle pers= one indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla= conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbia= te ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne= immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, G= razie. This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged i= nformation intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, print= ing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended reci= pient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sender= by return e-mail, Thanks. Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. From nobody Thu Jul 29 03:18:14 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B05073A1C8C; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 03:18:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MRE5rYi5w0Mc; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 03:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from frasgout.his.huawei.com (frasgout.his.huawei.com [185.176.79.56]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 727A13A1C8D; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 03:17:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.147.201]) by frasgout.his.huawei.com (SkyGuard) with ESMTP id 4Gb5lG2y65z6LBnH; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 18:06:02 +0800 (CST) Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com (10.206.15.33) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_GCM_SHA256) id 15.1.2176.2; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:17:57 +0200 Received: from fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) by fraeml714-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.206.15.33]) with mapi id 15.01.2176.012; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:17:57 +0200 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Cociglio Mauro , "martin.h.duke@gmail.com" , IETF IPPM WG CC: "wehrle@comsys.rwth-aachen.de" , "Ike.Kunze@comsys.rwth-aachen.de" , "explicit-meas@ietf.org" , =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jan_R=FCth?= , "quic@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: Which bits to use for explicit performance measurements? Thread-Index: AdeEVHmu1EyYtIPQQ2qUvt54N6OCEQABk7FA Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:17:57 +0000 Message-ID: <39bd43418f3a49538560bb71adf9a8e1@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.83.0] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [ippm] Which bits to use for explicit performance measurements? X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 10:18:05 -0000 Hi Martin, Mauro, All, Let me also highlight that draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measurements is inf= ormational and, similarly to the experimental RFC 8321 and RFC 8889, it des= cribes different alternatives for performance measurement. Then, a future s= tandards track specification can pick up the most suitable method. To address the comment of Martin, I would suggest to add a new final sectio= n titled, for instance, "Report on the Operational Experiment and Deploymen= t", where it can be possible to include the current experiments and existin= g deployments and also give suggestions and guidance for the implementation= . In this way, developers can get more information when they read the draft= . Regards, Giuseppe -----Original Message----- From: Explicit-meas On Behalf Of Cociglio = Mauro Sent: Thursday, July 29, 2021 11:01 AM To: martin.h.duke@gmail.com; IETF IPPM WG Cc: wehrle@comsys.rwth-aachen.de; Ike.Kunze@comsys.rwth-aachen.de; explicit= -meas@ietf.org; Jan R=FCth ; quic@ietf.org Subject: [Explicit-meas] Which bits to use for explicit performance measure= ments? Hi Martin and All. I would like to answer your question from yesterday IPPM session in a more = detailed way. If I understood well your question is: "Which bits, at the end, we suggest to use among all those proposed in the = draft for explicit performance measures?" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mdt-ippm-explicit-flow-measure= ments-02) Taking for granted that the usable space consists of 3 bits I would say to = use 1 bit for RTT and 2 bits for Packet Loss. Starting from the results of Aachen University ANRW paper (https://arxiv.or= g/pdf/2106.13710.pdf) we can say that, for Packet Loss, 1 bit is not enough= : . T-bit is not a so accurate measurement. . Q-bit is not an end-to-end measure. . L-bit does not allow the localization of the impairment. So the best proposition, in our opinion, is to use 2 bits. The 1st is definitely the Q-bit, coupled either with L-bit or with R-bit. The L-bit is very accurate and works well even with short sessions, but it = is a signal of the losses recorded by the protocol, not an independent meas= ure. If you want a protocol independent measurement you need to use R-bit, which= even with some limitations in the case of short sessions (it needs to wait= for the completion of a Q period on one side of the connection before refl= ecting it on the other) has proven to work quite well. We now come to RTT measurement, considering in particular the QUIC protocol= , where there is already a standardized bit, even if not mandatory, on this= measure. The Spin bit, albeit with some limitations in case of impairments (in parti= cular out-of-sequence) and the fact that it "mixes" the application delay w= ith the network delay, has proved to work quite well. The problem is that, = up to now, it has not been implemented and in the QUIC traffic on the netwo= rk it is not present. It is a question of understanding the reasons for this fact. If the issue of privacy is the main problem, the proposal of the D-bit, in = the version with Hidden RTT, could be considered for the next version of QU= IC protocol. BR. Mauro _____________________ Mauro Cociglio TIM - CI.TIS.IPT Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274 10148 - Torino (Italy) Tel.: +390112285028 Mobile: +393357669751 _____________________ TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati. Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle per= sone indicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dall= a conoscenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abb= iate ricevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di dar= ne immediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione= , Grazie.=20 This e-mail and any attachments is confidential and may contain privileged = information intended for the addressee(s) only. Dissemination, copying, pri= nting or use by anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended r= ecipient, please delete this message and any attachments and advise the sen= der by return e-mail, Thanks.=20 Rispetta l'ambiente. Non stampare questa mail se non =E8 necessario. --=20 Explicit-meas mailing list Explicit-meas@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/explicit-meas From nobody Thu Jul 29 12:32:33 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 982B23A1873; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:32:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.397 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.397 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=uliege.be Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NWX0WwQ6A1Xv; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:32:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from serv108.segi.ulg.ac.be (serv108.segi.ulg.ac.be [139.165.32.111]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 03A013A186F; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 12:32:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mbx12-zne.ulg.ac.be (serv470.segi.ulg.ac.be [139.165.32.199]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by serv108.segi.ulg.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA006200C989; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:32:21 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 serv108.segi.ulg.ac.be EA006200C989 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=uliege.be; s=ulg20190529; t=1627587141; bh=mhFyZ0ZZucONPt30c8f7/+qIJP1R4qgxpPRR97b+NOQ=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:Cc:Subject:From; b=Nkk9NZuH0FDOHhPiV4qfdc8KcjTiUcq07cDNEH8KIsrh4RIhTDvrfcrdzEC4RBAqY FshYiZKE376rNZu2NG/RgCHqlLtWeHtFHAhYrspdSKU00YDx9kzvt1BymNEJ2HhadE lPj86hsenxoHuOQqETTFx2LBM4M3Q2p8ZyYET8K6F0ZjTBfAlGz+yw5K2LY6oQQPu9 oUscNYIvgOVUN4cMPnGmcAbxG5XIfj1UZ4EuAwV+/FzqHDYWuUdHWH3PtjOaRaiCo+ ICOa365S/tLeXqNRmhBnMAqPQcziyPOkLhAUkArnXQg4mNq9sjYzrUvStICki13DDv kb4p/QnfV7vuQ== Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mbx12-zne.ulg.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE52E6008D53E; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:32:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mbx12-zne.ulg.ac.be ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mbx12-zne.ulg.ac.be [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id CLSrH7mznvvp; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:32:21 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mbx12-zne.ulg.ac.be (mbx12-zne.ulg.ac.be [139.165.32.199]) by mbx12-zne.ulg.ac.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id C52C0600822F4; Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:32:21 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 21:32:21 +0200 (CEST) From: Justin Iurman Reply-To: Justin Iurman To: IETF IPPM WG Cc: IPPM Chairs , "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" , Tal Mizrahi , Shwetha Message-ID: <1606397992.28479722.1627587141776.JavaMail.zimbra@uliege.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [81.240.24.148] X-Mailer: Zimbra 8.8.15_GA_4018 (ZimbraWebClient - FF90 (Linux)/8.8.15_GA_4026) Thread-Index: t7dz8L2nBaOnSbfruxoTZlddshBssQ== Thread-Topic: IOAM - Linux kernel Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] IOAM - Linux kernel X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Jul 2021 19:32:32 -0000 Hi all, As I already mentioned during yesterday's meeting, IOAM w/ IPv6 is now officially part of the Linux kernel (more specifically, the pre-allocated trace option). It will come with release 5.14 (you can expect it in ~6 weeks, I'd say). I think this is definitely great news for IPPM, but also for the IOAM team involved. So kudos to everyone. On the same topic, now that IOAM has finally made it to the kernel, we hope that draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options will follow the same path as draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data in short term. Thanks, Justin From nobody Sat Jul 31 07:19:21 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietf.org Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B68483A27EF; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:19:06 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: ippm@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.35.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: ippm@ietf.org Message-ID: <162774114670.31082.11563693190705262970@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 07:19:06 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-06.txt X-BeenThere: ippm@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: IETF IP Performance Metrics Working Group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 31 Jul 2021 14:19:16 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF. Title : In-situ OAM IPv6 Options Authors : Shwetha Bhandari Frank Brockners Filename : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-06.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2021-07-31 Abstract: In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet traverses a path between two points in the network. This document outlines how IOAM data fields are encapsulated in IPv6. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options/ There is also an htmlized version available at: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-06 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-06 Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Jul 31 08:08:57 2021 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ippm@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6807B3A03AA; Sat, 31 Jul 2021 08:08:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.996 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.996 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001, URIBL_SBL=0.5, URIBL_SBL_A=0.1, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); 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