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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/C4G0sJT_wDWIUbrginxlIFq4-wI>
Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
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Hi Ahmed,

Thanks for the draft. I appreciate the small and well specified format of t=
he measurement and hope that endpoints and transit routers supporting Path =
Tracing in SRv6 networks are able to fill in the specified fields at linera=
te during forwarding. I'd also appreciate an SR-MPLS version of the draft.

I'd suggest to add more text related to the following statement:

         Note: all routers across the network MUST have time-
         synchronization.  The mechanism used for time synchronization
         is out of the scope of this draft.

An operator should be able to qualify an applicable time-synchronisation by=
 guidance of the draft. If Truncated Timestamp configuration depends on the=
 precision of time synchronization, guidance for interested operators shoul=
d be part of the draft. The choice of timestamp resolution may further depe=
nd on locally configured buffers. A Truncated Timestamp working well in the=
 absence of congestion, but creating erroneous information with the onset o=
f congestion might not be desired. Maybe a discussion on wrapping / overflo=
w may help too. Finally, the precision of the synchronization needs to be m=
onitored. That may be done out of band, but  centralized processing should =
be aware of timestamps created by a router with (temporarily) bad synch. A =
temporal change in precision of or a  loss of synch are common networking s=
ynch-events.

While the mechanism used for time synchronization doesn't need to be define=
d in the draft, a reference to some applicable synchronization mechanisms w=
ould be helpful. The list doesn't have to be complete, please add some comm=
odity examples.

Editorial nit: To me, a binding "Requirement" shouldn't be a "Note".

Regards,

Ruediger


On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 4:14 PM Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) <ahabdels=3D40ci=
sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Dear SPRING WG,  IPPM WG,
>
> We have submitted a new I-D for Path Tracing in SRv6 networks (https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing) to SPRING W=
G.
> We are looking for your feedback and comments.
> Path Tracing provides a record of the packet path as a sequence of interf=
ace ids. In addition, it provides a record of end-to-end delay, per-hop del=
ay, and load on each egress interface along the packet delivery path to fac=
ilitate operation of SR networks.
>
>
>
> Path Tracing allows to trace 14 hops with only a 40-octet IPv6 Hop-by-Hop=
 extension header.
>
>
> We will present Path Tracing to the SPRING WG at next IETF=20
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/agenda-113-spring-
> 00.txt)
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ahmed
>
>
>
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Friday, 4 March 2022 at 16:48
> To: Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) <ahabdels@cisco.com>, cf(mailer list)=20
> <cf@cisco.com>, Mark Yufit <mark.yufit@broadcom.com>, Pablo Camarillo=20
> (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)=20
> <pcamaril@cisco.com>, Satoru Matsushima=20
> <satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp>, Thomas.Graf=20
> <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>, Yuanchao Su <yitai.syc@alibaba-inc.com>
> Subject: New Version Notification for=20
> draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Pablo Camarillo Garvia and posted=20
> to the IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing
> Revision:       00
> Title:          Path Tracing in SRv6 networks
> Document date:  2022-03-04
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          15
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-filsfils-spring-pat=
h-tracing-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-pa=
th-tracing/
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spri=
ng-path-tracing
>
>
> Abstract:
>    Path Tracing provides a record of the packet path as a sequence of
>    interface ids.  In addition, it provides a record of end-to-end
>    delay, per-hop delay, and load on each egress interface along the
>    packet delivery path.
>
>    Path Tracing allows to trace 14 hops with only a 40-bytes IPv6 Hop-
>    by-Hop extension header.
>
>    Path Tracing supports fine grained timestamp.  It has been designed
>    for linerate hardware implementation in the base pipeline.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

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From: Paolo Volpato <paolo.volpato@huawei.com>
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org)" <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] Adoption call for Encrypted PDMv2
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Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 08:08:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Adoption call for Encrypted PDMv2
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Dear IPPM,
I support the adoption of draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2.
The extension of RFC 8250 (base PDM) with confidentiality, integrity and au=
thentication is of extreme importance, in particular in the enterprise doma=
in.

Best regards
Paolo

From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2022 6:19 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Adoption call for Encrypted PDMv2

Hello IPPM,

This email starts an adoption call in the IPPM working group for draft-elki=
ns-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-02, which updates PDM (RFC 8250) to add encryption =
to the data. This document was discussed at our meeting at IETF 113, and ha=
s had several side meetings.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2

Please reply to this email by April 12, 2022, to indicate if you support ad=
opting this document.

Best,
Tommy & Marcus

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I support the adoption of draft-elkins-ippm-encrypte=
d-pdmv2.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The extension of RFC 8250 (base PDM) with confidenti=
ality, integrity and authentication is of extreme importance, in particular=
 in the enterprise domain.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best regards<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Paolo<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ippm &lt;ippm-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Tommy Pauly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Tuesday, March 29, 2022 6:19 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IETF IPPM WG (ippm@ietf.org) &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ippm] Adoption call for Encrypted PDMv2<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email starts an adoption call in the IPPM worki=
ng group for&nbsp;draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-02, which updates PDM (=
RFC 8250) to add encryption to the data. This document was discussed at our=
 meeting at IETF 113, and has had several
 side meetings.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-el=
kins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-i=
ppm-encrypted-pdmv2/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra=
ft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft=
-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please reply to this email <b>by April 12, 2022</b>,=
&nbsp;to indicate if you support adopting this document.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tommy &amp; Marcus<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_2766d348a40249cd96b6171c5de5bd6ahuaweicom_--


From nobody Mon Apr  4 07:04:10 2022
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 07:03:48 -0700
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To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>, TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: [ippm] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice
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Hi Adrian, et al,
I've got a question about the relationship of performance metrics like
packet loss ratio, packet delay, packet delay variation of an IETF Network
Slice service (NSS), on one hand, and IETF NSS availability. I think that
Section 4.1.1.1 considers all these metrics as Directly Measurable SLOs. I
agree with such characterization in regard to loss and delay while I am not
sure that that applies to the availability. The issue I have is that, as
far as I know, there's no formal definition of the availability metric in
the document and it seems that we've been using it in a colloquial way. A
group of us started to work on a definition of the availability as a
performance metric for a multi-SLO service
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam/>. We had
discussed this work at the IPPM WG meeting at IETF-113. I think that this
work is relevant to the discussion of the IETF NSS availability. If that is
the case, perhaps the characterization of the availability in Section
4.1.1.1 can be further enhanced with the reference to
the draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam.
I greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and suggestions on our work
on Precision Availability Metrics.

Regards,
Greg

PS. Attached, please find the presentation slides from the IPPM WG meeting.

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Adrian, et al,<div>I&#39;ve got a ques=
tion about the relationship of performance metrics like packet loss ratio, =
packet delay, packet delay variation of an IETF Network Slice service (NSS)=
, on one hand, and IETF NSS availability. I think that=C2=A0 Section 4.1.1.=
1 considers all these metrics as Directly Measurable SLOs. I agree with suc=
h characterization in regard to loss and delay while I am not sure that tha=
t applies to the availability. The issue I have is that, as far as I know, =
there&#39;s no formal definition of the availability metric in the document=
 and it seems that we&#39;ve been using it in a colloquial way. A group of =
us started to work on a definition of <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.o=
rg/doc/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam/">the availability=C2=A0as a performance metr=
ic for a multi-SLO service</a>. We had discussed this work at the IPPM WG m=
eeting at IETF-113. I think that this work is relevant to the discussion of=
 the IETF NSS availability. If that is the case, perhaps the characterizati=
on of the availability in Section 4.1.1.1 can be further enhanced with the =
reference to the=C2=A0draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam.</div><div>I greatly appreciat=
e your comments, questions, and suggestions on our work on Precision Availa=
bility Metrics.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>Greg</div><div>=
<br></div><div>PS. Attached, please find the presentation slides from the I=
PPM WG meeting.</div></div></div>

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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>,  TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/VNzOhcCI1lF1n8yZeRJD43mPAHc>
Subject: Re: [ippm] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice
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Greg,

That sounds like a great idea.

Yours Irrespectively,

John



Juniper Business Use Only
From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Greg Mirsky
Sent: Monday, April 4, 2022 10:04 AM
To: Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>; IETF IPPM=
 WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice

[External Email. Be cautious of content]

Hi Adrian, et al,
I've got a question about the relationship of performance metrics like pack=
et loss ratio, packet delay, packet delay variation of an IETF Network Slic=
e service (NSS), on one hand, and IETF NSS availability. I think that  Sect=
ion 4.1.1.1 considers all these metrics as Directly Measurable SLOs. I agre=
e with such characterization in regard to loss and delay while I am not sur=
e that that applies to the availability. The issue I have is that, as far a=
s I know, there's no formal definition of the availability metric in the do=
cument and it seems that we've been using it in a colloquial way. A group o=
f us started to work on a definition of the availability as a performance m=
etric for a multi-SLO service<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracke=
r.ietf.org/doc/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!THS33yjziPwDcoT1wn1g=
m-hvkwEU_Rq9HFUL-GDa57LhJWHD0uVygH0OV3TtD-w$>. We had discussed this work a=
t the IPPM WG meeting at IETF-113. I think that this work is relevant to th=
e discussion of the IETF NSS availability. If that is the case, perhaps the=
 characterization of the availability in Section 4.1.1.1 can be further enh=
anced with the reference to the draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam.
I greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and suggestions on our work =
on Precision Availability Metrics.

Regards,
Greg

PS. Attached, please find the presentation slides from the IPPM WG meeting.

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">That sounds like a great idea.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Yours Irrespectively,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">John<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooter30b3d538" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0in;text-a=
lign:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:7.0pt;color:black">Juniper Business Use Only</span=
><o:p></o:p></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ippm &lt;ippm-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 4, 2022 10:04 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Adrian Farrel &lt;adrian@olddog.co.uk&gt;; TEAS WG &lt;teas@ietf=
.org&gt;; IETF IPPM WG &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ippm] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:12.0pt;background:#FFEB9C"><b><=
span style=3D"font-size:10.5pt;font-family:&quot;Lato&quot;,sans-serif;colo=
r:black">[External Email. Be cautious of content]<o:p></o:p></span></b></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Adrian, et al, <o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I've got a question about the relationship of perfor=
mance metrics like packet loss ratio, packet delay, packet delay variation =
of an IETF Network Slice service (NSS), on one hand, and IETF NSS availabil=
ity. I think that&nbsp; Section 4.1.1.1
 considers all these metrics as Directly Measurable SLOs. I agree with such=
 characterization in regard to loss and delay while I am not sure that that=
 applies to the availability. The issue I have is that, as far as I know, t=
here's no formal definition of the
 availability metric in the document and it seems that we've been using it =
in a colloquial way. A group of us started to work on a definition of
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draf=
t-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam/__;!!NEt6yMaO-gk!THS33yjziPwDcoT1wn1gm-hvkwEU_Rq9HFUL-GD=
a57LhJWHD0uVygH0OV3TtD-w$">
the availability&nbsp;as a performance metric for a multi-SLO service</a>. =
We had discussed this work at the IPPM WG meeting at IETF-113. I think that=
 this work is relevant to the discussion of the IETF NSS availability. If t=
hat is the case, perhaps the characterization
 of the availability in Section 4.1.1.1 can be further enhanced with the re=
ference to the&nbsp;draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and s=
uggestions on our work on Precision Availability Metrics.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS. Attached, please find the presentation slides fr=
om the IPPM WG meeting.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From nobody Tue Apr  5 01:39:46 2022
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From: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
To: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis.all@ietf.org>, "draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis.all@ietf.org" <draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis.all@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RFC8321bis and RFC8889bis: new versions
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Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 08:39:37 +0000
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Subject: [ippm] RFC8321bis and RFC8889bis: new versions
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Dear Martin, All,
Please note that I just submitted new revisions of RFC8321bis and RFC8889bi=
s.
I tried to address the latest AD reviews.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/

Comments and suggestions are always welcome.

Best Regards,

Giuseppe


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<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Dear Martin, All,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please note that I just submitted new revisions of R=
FC8321bis and RFC8889bis.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I tried to address the latest AD reviews.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fi=
occola-rfc8321bis/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321=
bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fi=
occola-rfc8889bis/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889=
bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Comments and suggestions are always welcome.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best Regards,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Giuseppe<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</body>
</html>

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 04:18:06 -0700
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Dear All,
per the suggestion of the Chairs of SFC and IPPM WGs we are introducing our
work on the applicability of the Alternate Marking method (AMM) in the
Service Function Chaining (SFC) with Network Service Header (NSH)
encapsulation. In the document we propose allocation of a new one-bit field
in the NSH Base Header. The field may be used for the single-mark or
mixed-mark AMM. In addition to enabling packet loss and packet delay
measurements, AMM in SFC can be used to measure the Residence Time in an
Service Function Forwarder (SFF) and/or a Service Function (SF). The latter
capability is particularly helpful in the analysis of overall delay
experienced along the Service Function Path (SFP) and delays introduced by
SFC components (Classifiers, SFFs, and SFs).
We always welcome your questions, comments, and suggestions.

Regards,
Greg

---------- Forwarded message ---------
From: <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
Date: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:56 PM
Subject: New Version Notification for draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.txt
To: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>, Greg Mirsky <
gregimirsky@gmail.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>



A new version of I-D, draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the
IETF repository.

Name:           draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm
Revision:       00
Title:          Performance Measurement (PM) with Alternate Marking Method
in Service Function Chaining (SFC) Network Service Header (NSH) Domain
Document date:  2022-04-01
Group:          Individual Submission
Pages:          9
URL:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.txt
Status:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm/
Html:
https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.html
Htmlized:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm


Abstract:
   This document describes how the alternate marking method can be used
   as the efficient performance measurement method taking advantage of
   the actual data flows in a Service Function Chaining domain using
   Network Service Header encapsulation.




The IETF Secretariat

--000000000000e00d0105dbe666ff
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Dear All,<div>per the suggestion of the Chairs of SFC and =
IPPM WGs we are introducing our work on the applicability of the Alternate =
Marking method (AMM) in the Service Function Chaining (SFC) with Network Se=
rvice Header (NSH) encapsulation. In the document we propose allocation of =
a new one-bit field in the NSH Base Header. The field may be used for the s=
ingle-mark or mixed-mark AMM. In addition to enabling packet loss and packe=
t delay measurements, AMM in SFC can be used to measure the Residence Time =
in an Service Function Forwarder (SFF) and/or a Service Function (SF). The =
latter capability is particularly=C2=A0helpful in the analysis of overall d=
elay experienced along the Service Function Path (SFP) and delays introduce=
d by SFC components (Classifiers, SFFs, and SFs).</div><div>We always welco=
me your questions, comments, and suggestions.</div><div><br></div><div>Rega=
rds,</div><div>Greg<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" clas=
s=3D"gmail_attr">---------- Forwarded message ---------<br>From: <span dir=
=3D"auto">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org">internet-drafts@i=
etf.org</a>&gt;</span><br>Date: Fri, Apr 1, 2022 at 2:56 PM<br>Subject: New=
 Version Notification for draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.txt<br>To: Giusep=
pe Fioccola &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com">giuseppe.fi=
occola@huawei.com</a>&gt;, Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gm=
ail.com">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;, Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
al.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br></div><br><b=
r><br>
A new version of I-D, draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.txt<br>
has been successfully submitted by Greg Mirsky and posted to the<br>
IETF repository.<br>
<br>
Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm<=
br>
Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000<br>
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Performance Measurement (PM) with =
Alternate Marking Method in Service Function Chaining (SFC) Network Service=
 Header (NSH) Domain<br>
Document date:=C2=A0 2022-04-01<br>
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission<br>
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 9<br>
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/archive/id/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.txt" rel=3D"noreferrer" targe=
t=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-0=
0.txt</a><br>
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm/" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm/</a><br>
Html:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.o=
rg/archive/id/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-00.html" rel=3D"noreferrer" targ=
et=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm-=
00.html</a><br>
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org=
/doc/html/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank=
">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-mfm-ippm-sfc-nsh-pmamm</a><br=
>
<br>
<br>
Abstract:<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document describes how the alternate marking method can b=
e used<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0as the efficient performance measurement method taking advanta=
ge of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0the actual data flows in a Service Function Chaining domain us=
ing<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Network Service Header encapsulation.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The IETF Secretariat<br>
<br>
<br>
</div></div></div>

--000000000000e00d0105dbe666ff--


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From: "Mohit P. Tahiliani" <tahiliani.nitk@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 21:12:02 +0530
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Subject: Re: [ippm] Adoption call for Encrypted PDMv2
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Hello IPPM,

I support the adoption of draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2.

I have been following this work, and have participated in the side
meetings. I believe this extension to RFC 8250 is a crucial one.

Thanks and Regards,
Mohit P. Tahiliani

On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 9:49 PM Tommy Pauly <tpauly=
40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hello IPPM,
>
> This email starts an adoption call in the IPPM working group
> for draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-02, which updates PDM (RFC 8250) to
> add encryption to the data. This document was discussed at our meeting at
> IETF 113, and has had several side meetings.
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2
>
> Please reply to this email *by April 12, 2022*, to indicate if you
> support adopting this document.
>
> Best,
> Tommy & Marcus
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>

--000000000000c0700605dbea1687
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello IPPM,<div><br></div><div>I support the adoption of d=
raft-elkins-<span class=3D"gmail-il">ippm</span>-encrypted-pdmv2.</div><div=
><br></div><div>I have been following this work, and have participated=C2=
=A0in the side meetings. I believe this=C2=A0extension to RFC 8250 is a cru=
cial one.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks and Regards,</div><div>Mohit P. T=
ahiliani</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 9:49 PM Tommy Pauly &lt;tpauly=3D<a=
 href=3D"mailto:40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&=
gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0=
px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div =
style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;"><div>Hello IPPM,</div><div><br></div><=
div>This email starts an adoption call in the IPPM working group for=C2=A0d=
raft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-02, which updates PDM (RFC 8250) to add en=
cryption to the data. This document was discussed at our meeting at IETF 11=
3, and has had several side meetings.</div><div><br></div><a href=3D"https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/" target=3D"_b=
lank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/</=
a><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-e=
ncrypted-pdmv2" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dra=
ft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2</a></div><div><br></div><div>Please reply to=
 this email <b>by April 12, 2022</b>,=C2=A0to indicate if you support adopt=
ing this document.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>Tommy &amp; Mar=
cus</div></div>_______________________________________________<br>
ippm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--000000000000c0700605dbea1687--


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I support the publishment of this draft. 
Thanks,
Sandy



------------------原始邮件------------------
发件人：MarcusIhlar
收件人：ippm@ietf.org;
日 期 ：2022年03月30日 01:04
主 题 ：[ippm] WGLC for draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state
_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

Hello IPPM,
This email starts the working group last call for the document draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state-03
Please provide your feedback on whether you think this document is ready to progress by replying to this email by Tuesday, April 12.
Best Regards,
Marcus & Tommy


From nobody Tue Apr  5 18:49:05 2022
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From: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>
Cc: mannyman123442@yahoo.com, ippm@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org
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Subject: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
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The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6673,
"Round-Trip Packet Loss Metrics".

--------------------------------------
You may review the report below and at:
https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6925

--------------------------------------
Type: Technical
Reported by: Jesus Alvarado <mannyman123442@yahoo.com>

Section: 6673

Original Text
-------------
Original Text:

RFC 5378                   RFC 3978-incoming               November 2008

Corrected Text:

RFC 5378             Rights Provided to IETF Trust         November 2008

Notes:

Corrected Text
--------------
Original Text:

RFC 5378                   RFC 3978-incoming               November 2008

Corrected Text:

RFC 5378             Rights Provided to IETF Trust         November 2008

Notes: That’s contract was before media line’s 

Notes
-----
And again if Danielle is around I am not trying to connect and we do need to talk about what I asked 2012 and you should not be forced into sex until the contract for 2015 is fixed.

Instructions:
-------------
This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party  
can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. 

--------------------------------------
RFC6673 (draft-ietf-ippm-rt-loss-05)
--------------------------------------
Title               : Round-Trip Packet Loss Metrics
Publication Date    : August 2012
Author(s)           : A. Morton
Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
Source              : IP Performance Measurement
Area                : Transport
Stream              : IETF
Verifying Party     : IESG


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To: RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "martin.h.duke@gmail.com" <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, "Zaheduzzaman.Sarker@ericsson.com" <Zaheduzzaman.Sarker@ericsson.com>, "marcus.ihlar@ericsson.com" <marcus.ihlar@ericsson.com>, "tpauly@apple.com" <tpauly@apple.com>
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Thread-Topic: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/tOtMtOS8ZiUH_ypuIMgiwpJOtwc>
Subject: Re: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
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From: Marcus Ihlar <marcus.ihlar@ericsson.com>
To: "MORTON JR., AL" <acmorton@att.com>, RFC Errata System <rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org>, "martin.h.duke@gmail.com" <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, Zaheduzzaman Sarker <zaheduzzaman.sarker@ericsson.com>, "tpauly@apple.com" <tpauly@apple.com>
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Thread-Topic: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
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On 06/04/2022 14:34, MORTON JR., AL wrote:
> Removing Jesus Alvarado <mannyman123442@yahoo.com> and the ippm list:
>
> This is wholly BS.  The text does not exist in RFC 6673, and the Note at the bottom doesn't belong anywhere...
>
> Please delete all records of this Errata!

Al

I do not know if you know but this has been going on for a while on a 
number of IETF WG lists.  There has been a discussion of it on the 
RFC-Interest list and I expect they will introduce a CAPTCHA soon.  Also 
under consideration is asking authors of an Erratum to sign up because 
their text needs to come under the IETF IPR rules so they need to be 
aware of 'Note Well'.

The aim is unclear.  As yet no pattern has been detected.  If it is just 
to cause a nuisance, then they are succeeding just fine and this e-mail 
will be helping them:-(  The figures are small, as yet, and I usually 
see the RFC Editor acting before anyone else does.

Tom Petch

> Al
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of RFC Errata System
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 5, 2022 9:49 PM
>> To: MORTON JR., AL <acmorton@att.com>; martin.h.duke@gmail.com;
>> Zaheduzzaman.Sarker@ericsson.com; marcus.ihlar@ericsson.com; tpauly@apple.com
>> Cc: rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org; mannyman123442@yahoo.com; ippm@ietf.org
>> Subject: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
>>
>> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6673,
>> "Round-Trip Packet Loss Metrics".
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> You may review the report below and at:
>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.rfc-
>> editor.org/errata/eid6925__;!!BhdT!lXxswbI41b1Z6xth91KntYZanokEyKOliL9b91y4mXZ
>> iDYrikhccpkmyzgwjICBO8I3ueao8-4KWKo-70Lrp$
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> Type: Technical
>> Reported by: Jesus Alvarado <mannyman123442@yahoo.com>
>>
>> Section: 6673
>>
>> Original Text
>> -------------
>> Original Text:
>>
>> RFC 5378                   RFC 3978-incoming               November 2008
>>
>> Corrected Text:
>>
>> RFC 5378             Rights Provided to IETF Trust         November 2008
>>
>> Notes:
>>
>> Corrected Text
>> --------------
>> Original Text:
>>
>> RFC 5378                   RFC 3978-incoming               November 2008
>>
>> Corrected Text:
>>
>> RFC 5378             Rights Provided to IETF Trust         November 2008
>>
>> Notes: That’s contract was before media line’s
>>
>> Notes
>> -----
>> And again if Danielle is around I am not trying to connect and we do need to
>> talk about what I asked 2012 and you should not be forced into sex until the
>> contract for 2015 is fixed.
>>
>> Instructions:
>> -------------
>> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
>> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
>> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party
>> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.
>>
>> --------------------------------------
>> RFC6673 (draft-ietf-ippm-rt-loss-05)
>> --------------------------------------
>> Title               : Round-Trip Packet Loss Metrics
>> Publication Date    : August 2012
>> Author(s)           : A. Morton
>> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
>> Source              : IP Performance Measurement
>> Area                : Transport
>> Stream              : IETF
>> Verifying Party     : IESG
>>
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From nobody Wed Apr  6 13:32:48 2022
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To: "MORTON JR., AL" <acmorton@att.com>, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>, Zaheduzzaman Sarker <Zaheduzzaman.Sarker@ericsson.com>, marcus.ihlar@ericsson.com, Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>, ippm@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [Technical Errata Reported] RFC6673 (6925)
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Greetings,

FYI - this report has been deleted as junk.

Thank you.

RFC Editor/cs


> On Apr 5, 2022, at 6:48 PM, RFC Errata System =
<rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org> wrote:
>=20
> The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6673,
> "Round-Trip Packet Loss Metrics".
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> You may review the report below and at:
> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata/eid6925
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> Type: Technical
> Reported by: Jesus Alvarado <mannyman123442@yahoo.com>
>=20
> Section: 6673
>=20
> Original Text
> -------------
> Original Text:
>=20
> RFC 5378                   RFC 3978-incoming               November =
2008
>=20
> Corrected Text:
>=20
> RFC 5378             Rights Provided to IETF Trust         November =
2008
>=20
> Notes:
>=20
> Corrected Text
> --------------
> Original Text:
>=20
> RFC 5378                   RFC 3978-incoming               November =
2008
>=20
> Corrected Text:
>=20
> RFC 5378             Rights Provided to IETF Trust         November =
2008
>=20
> Notes: That=E2=80=99s contract was before media line=E2=80=99s=20
>=20
> Notes
> -----
> And again if Danielle is around I am not trying to connect and we do =
need to talk about what I asked 2012 and you should not be forced into =
sex until the contract for 2015 is fixed.
>=20
> Instructions:
> -------------
> This erratum is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please
> use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or
> rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party =20
> can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary.=20
>=20
> --------------------------------------
> RFC6673 (draft-ietf-ippm-rt-loss-05)
> --------------------------------------
> Title               : Round-Trip Packet Loss Metrics
> Publication Date    : August 2012
> Author(s)           : A. Morton
> Category            : PROPOSED STANDARD
> Source              : IP Performance Measurement
> Area                : Transport
> Stream              : IETF
> Verifying Party     : IESG
>=20


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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Wed, 6 Apr 2022 14:55:12 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmW8=KGoYv05Wa8ovM5KKkiP_2dWxcqk35ktd-YMyq3epg@mail.gmail.com>
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>, Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [Teas] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice
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Hi Med,
thank you for your comments and suggestions (the .doc version is attached).
I will discuss this with the authors and share updates addressing them.

Kind regards,
Greg

On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 12:07 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Sure. Feel free to forward the review to IPPM list as I=E2=80=99m not on =
that
> list.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 4 avril 2022 19:04
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Objet :* Re: [Teas] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
> thank you for your review and comments. Will review and discuss with the
> co-authors and be back with the proposed updates. I wonder if you would
> agree to sending references to your review on the mailing lists (IPPM wou=
ld
> be especially helpful to progress this work). Much appreciate your help a=
nd
> support.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 7:17 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thank you for sharing this work.
>
>
>
> As you are looking for comments on PAM, you may check
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/74p99UxkyxzPII92VVV6f9tSbYA/:
>
>
>
>    - pdf:
>    https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master=
/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-00-rev%20Med.pdf
>    - doc:
>    https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-mhmc=
sfh-ippm-pam-00-rev%20Med.doc
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Teas <teas-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Greg Mirsky
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 4 avril 2022 16:04
> *=C3=80 :* Adrian Farrel <adrian@olddog.co.uk>; TEAS WG <teas@ietf.org>; =
IETF
> IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
> *Objet :* [Teas] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice
>
>
>
> Hi Adrian, et al,
>
> I've got a question about the relationship of performance metrics like
> packet loss ratio, packet delay, packet delay variation of an IETF Networ=
k
> Slice service (NSS), on one hand, and IETF NSS availability. I think that
> Section 4.1.1.1 considers all these metrics as Directly Measurable SLOs. =
I
> agree with such characterization in regard to loss and delay while I am n=
ot
> sure that that applies to the availability. The issue I have is that, as
> far as I know, there's no formal definition of the availability metric in
> the document and it seems that we've been using it in a colloquial way. A
> group of us started to work on a definition of the availability as a
> performance metric for a multi-SLO service
> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam/>. We had
> discussed this work at the IPPM WG meeting at IETF-113. I think that this
> work is relevant to the discussion of the IETF NSS availability. If that =
is
> the case, perhaps the characterization of the availability in Section
> 4.1.1.1 can be further enhanced with the reference to
> the draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam.
>
> I greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and suggestions on our wor=
k
> on Precision Availability Metrics.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> PS. Attached, please find the presentation slides from the IPPM WG meetin=
g.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div>Hi Med,</div><div>thank you for your comments and sug=
gestions (the .doc version is attached). I will discuss this with the autho=
rs and share updates addressing=C2=A0them.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind re=
gards,</div><div>Greg</div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 12:07 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex=
;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-1217097028979877816WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Sure. Feel free to forward the review to IPPM=
 list as I=E2=80=99m not on that list. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:g=
regimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 4 avril 2022 19:04<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [Teas] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Sli=
ce<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your review and comments. Will review =
and discuss with the co-authors and be back with the proposed updates. I wo=
nder if you would agree to sending references to your review on the mailing=
 lists (IPPM would be especially helpful
 to progress this work). Much appreciate your help and support.<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 4, 2022 at 7:17 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Thank you for sharing this work.</span><u></u=
><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">As you are looking for comments on PAM, you m=
ay check
<a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/74p99UxkyxzPII92VVV6f=
9tSbYA/" target=3D"_blank">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/teas/74p99UxkyxzPII92VVV6f9tSbYA/</a>=
: </span>
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"gmail-m_-1217097028979877816gmail-m-6377567353166792614msolist=
paragraph">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&=
quot;">pdf: <a href=3D"https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Dra=
fts-Reviews/master/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-00-rev%20Med.pdf" target=3D"_blan=
k">
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/master/draf=
t-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-00-rev%20Med.pdf</a></span><u></u><u></u></li><li class=
=3D"gmail-m_-1217097028979877816gmail-m-6377567353166792614msolistparagraph=
">
<span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">doc: </s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier =
New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/=
master/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-00-rev%20Med.doc" target=3D"_blank"><span lan=
g=3D"FR">https://github.com/boucadair/IETF-Drafts-Reviews/raw/master/draft-=
mhmcsfh-ippm-pam-00-rev%20Med.doc</span></a></span><u></u><u></u></li></ul>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Teas &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:teas-bou=
nces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teas-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Greg Mirsky<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 4 avril 2022 16:04<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Adrian Farrel &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:adrian@olddog.co.u=
k" target=3D"_blank">adrian@olddog.co.uk</a>&gt;; TEAS WG &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:teas@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">teas@ietf.org</a>&gt;; IETF IPPM WG &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>&gt;=
<br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> [Teas] Availability metrics in the IETF Network Slice<u=
></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Adrian, et al,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#39;ve got a question about the relationship of pe=
rformance metrics like packet loss ratio, packet delay, packet delay variat=
ion of an IETF Network Slice service (NSS), on one hand,
 and IETF NSS availability. I think that=C2=A0 Section 4.1.1.1 considers al=
l these metrics as Directly Measurable SLOs. I agree with such characteriza=
tion in regard to loss and delay while I am not sure that that applies to t=
he availability. The issue I have is
 that, as far as I know, there&#39;s no formal definition of the availabili=
ty metric in the document and it seems that we&#39;ve been using it in a co=
lloquial way. A group of us started to work on a definition of
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam/" target=
=3D"_blank">
the availability=C2=A0as a performance metric for a multi-SLO service</a>. =
We had discussed this work at the IPPM WG meeting at IETF-113. I think that=
 this work is relevant to the discussion of the IETF NSS availability. If t=
hat is the case, perhaps the characterization
 of the availability in Section 4.1.1.1 can be further enhanced with the re=
ference to the=C2=A0draft-mhmcsfh-ippm-pam.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I greatly appreciate your comments, questions, and s=
uggestions on our work on Precision Availability Metrics.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">PS. Attached, please find the presentation slides fr=
om the IPPM WG meeting.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
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<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
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<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
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Thank you.
</pre></div>

</blockquote></div></div>

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To: Marcus Ihlar <marcus.ihlar=40ericsson.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charse=
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y { font-size: 14px; font-family: "Microsoft YaHei UI"; color: rgb(0, 0, 0=
); line-height: 1.5; }</style></head><body>=0A<div><span></span>Hi WG,</di=
v><div><span microsoft=3D"" yahei=3D"" ui";=3D"" font-size:=3D"" 14px;=3D"=
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olor: transparent;">&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"background-co=
lor: transparent;">&nbsp;The echo request/reply mechanisms posted in this =
draft are beneficial to IOAM deployment. I support the WG Last Call.</span=
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; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" size=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A<div><span>=
<div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10pt"><div>Ha=
ojie Wang</div><div>China Mobile</div><div>wanghaojie@chinamobile.com</div=
></div></span></div>=0A<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom=
: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5em; margin-Right: inherit"><div>&nbsp;</div><div st=
yle=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0c=
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NT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefef; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; =
PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm-request@ie=
tf.org">ippm-request</a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2022-03-30&nbsp;03:02=
</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm</a></div>=
<div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;ippm Digest, Vol 214, Issue 16</div></div></div>=
<div><div>Send ippm mailing list submissions to</div>=0A<div>	ippm@ietf.or=
g</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>To subscribe or unsubscribe via the Wor=
ld Wide Web, visit</div>=0A<div>	https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipp=
m</div>=0A<div>or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' t=
o</div>=0A<div>	ippm-request@ietf.org</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>You=
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rg</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>When replying, please edit your Subjec=
t line so it is more specific</div>=0A<div>than "Re: Contents of ippm dige=
st..."</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Today's Topics=
:</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;&nbsp; 1. WGLC for draft-ietf-ipp=
m-ioam-conf-state (Marcus Ihlar)</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</=
div>=0A<div>--------------------------------------------------------------=
--------</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Message: 1</div>=0A<div>Date: Tu=
e, 29 Mar 2022 17:04:04 +0000</div>=0A<div>From: Marcus Ihlar &lt;marcus.i=
hlar@ericsson.com&gt;</div>=0A<div>To: "ippm@ietf.org" &lt;ippm@ietf.org&g=
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div>=0A<div>Message-ID:</div>=0A<div>	&lt;AM0PR07MB4131ED844BD5B1A42FB128C=
1E21E9@AM0PR07MB4131.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com&gt;</div>=0A<div>	</div>=0A=
<div>Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"utf-8"</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=
=0A<div>Hello IPPM,</div>=0A<div>This email starts the working group last =
call for the document draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;=
</div>=0A<div>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-s=
tate/</div>=0A<div>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-i=
oam-conf-state-03</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Please provide your fee=
dback on whether you think this document is ready to progress by replying =
to this email by Tuesday, April 12.</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Best =
Regards,</div>=0A<div>Marcus &amp; Tommy</div>=0A<div>-------------- next =
part --------------</div>=0A<div>An HTML attachment was scrubbed...</div>=
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---------------------------</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>Subject: Dige=
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________________</div>=0A<div>ippm mailing list</div>=0A<div>ippm@ietf.org=
</div>=0A<div>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</div>=0A<div>&nbs=
p;</div>=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>------------------------------</div>=
=0A<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A<div>End of ippm Digest, Vol 214, Issue 16</div>=0A=
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From: Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 7 Apr 2022 13:16:36 -0700
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Subject: [ippm] RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hello IPPM,

You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from
Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update
would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.

I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially
adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The
changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven
some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's
important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we
might as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there's no
confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own
documents.

So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing the
work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up
the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed
objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns that
people have.

I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which
are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.

For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between
draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of
diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt

https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt

I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are
good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we could
be done before IETF 114.

Your friendly Area Director,
Martin

--00000000000052fe1705dc162838
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hello IPPM,<div><br></div><div>You=C2=A0may recall that th=
ere was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Propose=
d Standard. There was a feeling that the update would be trivial and we cou=
ld therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.</div><div><br></div><div>I&=
#39;ve done 3 rounds of AD review and I&#39;ve seen the need to substantial=
ly adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The =
changes are not revolutionary, but I&#39;m a non-practitioner and have driv=
en some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it&#39;s =
important to get good IPPM review; if we&#39;re going to do that anyway, we=
 might as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there&#39;s=
 no confusion as to why IPPM didn&#39;t formally review an update to its ow=
n documents.</div><div><br></div><div>So, as first step, I invite the worki=
ng group=C2=A0to adopt these two drafts:</div><div><a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://datat=
racker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/">https://datatracker.ietf.or=
g/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/</a><br></div><div>Any objections to adopti=
on, as always, should be to the value of doing the work at all, and the gen=
eral direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up the adoption call with an=
 immediate=C2=A0WGLC to shake out any detailed objections, though we will t=
ake as long as we need to address concerns that people have.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these document=
s, which are not long, to get a sense of what we&#39;ve done.</div><div><br=
></div><div>For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization=
 between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a se=
t of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:</div><div><a href=3D"htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8=
321bis-02.txt">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Dd=
raft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ie=
tf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fio=
ccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola=
-rfc8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt</a><br></div=
><div><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889=
.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt">https://www.ietf.org/rfcd=
iff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt</a><br><=
/div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8889bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt">https://www.iet=
f.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioc=
cola-rfc8889bis-04.txt</a><br></div><div><br></div><div>I believe it&#39;s =
up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are good about readi=
ng the document during WGLC, I would like to think we could be done before =
IETF 114.</div><div><br></div><div>Your friendly Area Director,</div><div>M=
artin</div><div><br></div></div>

--00000000000052fe1705dc162838--


From nobody Thu Apr  7 17:00:44 2022
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Subject: [ippm] The IPPM WG has placed draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued"
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The IPPM WG has placed draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis in state
Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Tommy Pauly)

The document is available at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/



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Subject: [ippm] The IPPM WG has placed draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis in state "Call For Adoption By WG Issued"
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The IPPM WG has placed draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis in state
Call For Adoption By WG Issued (entered by Tommy Pauly)

The document is available at
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/



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From: Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/J0n48iDyEa3IN3INg583Bmv5-ao>
Subject: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hello IPPM,

This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis and =
draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=E2=80=99s emails below for =
details =E2=80=94 the main idea here is that we=E2=80=99re moving two =
IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.

The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG =
processing these documents. If we adopt, we=E2=80=99d plan to very =
shortly thereafter do a working group last call.

Please reply to this email by Thursday, April 21 and indicate if you =
support adopting this document.

Best,
Tommy & Marcus

> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hello IPPM,
>=20
> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 =
from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the =
update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored =
document.
>=20
> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to =
substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design =
in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner =
and have driven some design changes with minimal review. At this point I =
think it's important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that =
anyway, we might as well do the (expedited) working group process so =
that there's no confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an =
update to its own documents.
>=20
> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two =
drafts:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing =
the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to =
follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any =
detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need to address =
concerns that people have.
>=20
> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, =
which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>=20
> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization =
between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a =
set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8=
321bis-02.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8321bis-02.txt>
> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=3D=
draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
>=20
> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8=
889bis-02.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8889bis-02.txt>
> =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=3D=
draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt =
<https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
>=20
> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people =
are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think =
we could be done before IETF 114.
>=20
> Your friendly Area Director,
> Martin
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


--Apple-Mail=_F3ECEFD9-C1FF-44A6-81E6-93ADCB3854C1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hello=
 IPPM,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This email =
starts an adoption call for&nbsp;draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis =
and&nbsp;draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=E2=80=99s emails =
below for details =E2=80=94 the main idea here is that we=E2=80=99re =
moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">The chairs would like to =
have a short amount of time spent in the WG processing these documents. =
If we adopt, we=E2=80=99d plan to very shortly thereafter do a working =
group last call.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Please reply to this email by <b class=3D"">Thursday, April =
21</b>&nbsp;and indicate if you support adopting this =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Best,</div><div class=3D"">Tommy &amp; Marcus<br =
class=3D""><div><br class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D"">On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com" =
class=3D"">martin.h.duke@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><div dir=3D"ltr" =
class=3D"">Hello IPPM,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">You&nbsp;may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 =
and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling =
that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD =
sponsored document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to =
substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design =
in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner =
and have driven some design changes with minimal review. At this point I =
think it's important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that =
anyway, we might as well do the (expedited) working group process so =
that there's no confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an =
update to its own documents.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">So, as first step, I invite the working =
group&nbsp;to adopt these two drafts:</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/</a>=
<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/</a>=
<br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Any objections to adoption, as =
always, should be to the value of doing the work at all, and the general =
direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up the adoption call with an =
immediate&nbsp;WGLC to shake out any detailed objections, though we will =
take as long as we need to address concerns that people have.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I invite you to consult =
the changelogs on both of these documents, which are not long, to get a =
sense of what we've done.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">For those of you who like diffs, there was a big =
reorganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a =
diff. So here is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 =
transition:</div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-f=
ioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraf=
t-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt</a><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.t=
xt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-0=
3.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt</a><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-f=
ioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraf=
t-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt</a><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.t=
xt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt" =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-0=
3.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt</a><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">I =
believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are =
good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we =
could be done before IETF 114.</div><div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Your friendly Area Director,</div><div =
class=3D"">Martin</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br class=3D"">ippm =
mailing list<br class=3D""><a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" =
class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_F3ECEFD9-C1FF-44A6-81E6-93ADCB3854C1--


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/lO7kQk1ReJ6n9ayXsiOgnP5IZEQ>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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On 08/04/2022 01:03, Tommy Pauly wrote:
> Hello IPPM,
>
> This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis and draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin’s emails below for details — the main idea here is that we’re moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.
>
> The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG processing these documents. If we adopt, we’d plan to very shortly thereafter do a working group last call.
>
> Please reply to this email by Thursday, April 21 and indicate if you support adopting this document.

'this document'
Which document?

Please post subsequent e-mails about one I-D only with the subject line 
indicating which, else I will get confused (and may well confuse others 
with my comments).

Tom Petch

> Best,
> Tommy & Marcus
>
>> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hello IPPM,
>>
>> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.
>>
>> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there's no confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.
>>
>> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/ <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
>> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns that people have.
>>
>> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>>
>> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt>
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
>>
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt>
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
>>
>> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we could be done before IETF 114.
>>
>> Your friendly Area Director,
>> Martin
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ippm mailing list
>> ippm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/BObQWyugtScj-mM_cJbyzBggihA>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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On 08/04/2022 09:42, t petch wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 01:03, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>> Hello IPPM,
>>
>> This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis and
>> draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin’s emails below for
>> details — the main idea here is that we’re moving two IPPM RFCs from
>> Experimental to Proposed Standard.
>>
>> The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG
>> processing these documents. If we adopt, we’d plan to very shortly
>> thereafter do a working group last call.
>>
>> Please reply to this email by Thursday, April 21 and indicate if you
>> support adopting this document.
>
> 'this document'
> Which document?
>
> Please post subsequent e-mails about one I-D only with the subject line
> indicating which, else I will get confused (and may well confuse others
> with my comments).

I note that 'this document' fails to give any explanation of why it 
exists (beyond the boiler-plate that tells me it is obsoleting)?

Why?  I may know the answer but think it wrong to assume that others will.

This should be in the Introduction and there should also be a 'Changes 
from ...'

Tom Petch

>
> Tom Petch
>
>> Best,
>> Tommy & Marcus
>>
>>> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello IPPM,
>>>
>>> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889
>>> from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the
>>> update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD
>>> sponsored document.
>>>
>>> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to
>>> substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the
>>> design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a
>>> non-practitioner and have driven some design changes with minimal
>>> review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM review;
>>> if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the (expedited)
>>> working group process so that there's no confusion as to why IPPM
>>> didn't formally review an update to its own documents.
>>>
>>> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
>>> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of
>>> doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I
>>> hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake
>>> out any detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need
>>> to address concerns that people have.
>>>
>>> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents,
>>> which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>>>
>>> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization
>>> between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is
>>> a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt>
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt>
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people
>>> are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to
>>> think we could be done before IETF 114.
>>>
>>> Your friendly Area Director,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ippm mailing list
>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ippm mailing list
>> ippm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>


From nobody Fri Apr  8 02:52:27 2022
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From: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
To: t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 09:52:15 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hi Tom,
Thank you for your feedback.
Please find my answers inline tagged as [GF].

Regards,

Giuseppe

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of t petch
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 11:27 AM
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@i=
etf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis

On 08/04/2022 09:42, t petch wrote:
> On 08/04/2022 01:03, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>> Hello IPPM,
>>
>> This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis and=20
>> draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin's emails below for=20
>> details - the main idea here is that we're moving two IPPM RFCs from=20
>> Experimental to Proposed Standard.
>>
>> The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG=20
>> processing these documents. If we adopt, we'd plan to very shortly=20
>> thereafter do a working group last call.
>>
>> Please reply to this email by Thursday, April 21 and indicate if you=20
>> support adopting this document.
>
> 'this document'
> Which document?
>
> Please post subsequent e-mails about one I-D only with the subject=20
> line indicating which, else I will get confused (and may well confuse=20
> others with my comments).

I note that 'this document' fails to give any explanation of why it exists =
(beyond the boiler-plate that tells me it is obsoleting)?

Why?  I may know the answer but think it wrong to assume that others will.

This should be in the Introduction and there should also be a 'Changes from=
 ...'

[GF]: Sure. I will add the explanation in the introduction of both RFC8321b=
is and RFC8889bis. It is to elevate the Experimental RFCs to Standard Track=
. There are several implementations (e.g. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/  that need a normative reference for the met=
hodology. Our initial approach was to use the informative reference but it =
was not accepted by the IESG. Therefore it was suggested to obsolete the ex=
perimental docs with new standard docs.
Please note that, for both drafts, you can find the Changes Log in Appendix=
 with all the modifications from the original RFCs for each version.

Tom Petch

>
> Tom Petch
>
>> Best,
>> Tommy & Marcus
>>
>>> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>>
>>> Hello IPPM,
>>>
>>> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889=20
>>> from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the=20
>>> update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD=20
>>> sponsored document.
>>>
>>> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to=20
>>> substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the=20
>>> design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a=20
>>> non-practitioner and have driven some design changes with minimal=20
>>> review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM=20
>>> review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the=20
>>> (expedited) working group process so that there's no confusion as to=20
>>> why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.
>>>
>>> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts=
:
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
>>> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of=20
>>> doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I=20
>>> hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake=20
>>> out any detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need=20
>>> to address concerns that people have.
>>>
>>> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents,=20
>>> which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>>>
>>> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization=20
>>> between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here=20
>>> is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-r=
f
>>> c8321bis-02.txt=20
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-=
r
>>> fc8321bis-02.txt>
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&u
>>> rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&
>>> url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-r=
f
>>> c8889bis-02.txt=20
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-=
r
>>> fc8889bis-02.txt>
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&u
>>> rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&
>>> url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If=20
>>> people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like=20
>>> to think we could be done before IETF 114.
>>>
>>> Your friendly Area Director,
>>> Martin
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ippm mailing list
>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> ippm mailing list
>> ippm@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


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Yes/support=20

Cheers,
Jeff
>=20
> Hello IPPM,
> This email starts the working group last call for the document draft-ietf-=
ippm-ioam-conf-state.
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state/
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-conf-state-03
> Please provide your feedback on whether you think this document is ready t=
o progress by replying to this email by Tuesday, April 12.
> Best Regards,
> Marcus & Tommy
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


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To: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/YjVlS5eqlVxxIw0w8OnvG3zoq-w>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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On 08/04/2022 10:52, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> Thank you for your feedback.
> Please find my answers inline tagged as [GF].
>
> Regards,
>
> Giuseppe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of t petch
> Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 11:27 AM
> To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
>
> On 08/04/2022 09:42, t petch wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 01:03, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>>> Hello IPPM,
<snip>
>>
>> 'this document'
>> Which document?
>>
>> Please post subsequent e-mails about one I-D only with the subject
>> line indicating which, else I will get confused (and may well confuse
>> others with my comments).
>
> I note that 'this document' fails to give any explanation of why it exists (beyond the boiler-plate that tells me it is obsoleting)?
>
> Why?  I may know the answer but think it wrong to assume that others will.
>
> This should be in the Introduction and there should also be a 'Changes from ...'
>
> [GF]: Sure. I will add the explanation in the introduction of both RFC8321bis and RFC8889bis. It is to elevate the Experimental RFCs to Standard Track. There are several implementations (e.g. https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/  that need a normative reference for the methodology. Our initial approach was to use the informative reference but it was not accepted by the IESG. Therefore it was suggested to obsolete the experimental docs with new standard docs.

Yes.  I have followed the thread and did voice my support for new RFC 
which I am glad to see.  And below ...
> Please note that, for both drafts, you can find the Changes Log in Appendix with all the modifications from the original RFCs for each version.
  ... Yes but that is not quite what I had in mind.   Think of an 
implementor who has accurately implemented RFC8321; they need to know if 
and how to change the code, they do not want a blow-by-blow account of 
every text change, how the RFC-to-be came to be what it is, just a 
statement of what needs changing where (if anything); and an Appendix 
labelled 'Changes Log', while helpful for the WG, is a candidate for 
excision by the RFC Editor whereas I am thinking of an Informative 
appendix that is referenced by the Introduction - 'Appendix X contains a 
list of technical changes from RFC8321'. Look at RFC7950; this lists the 
changes from RFC6020 and, at the insistence of the AD, the list was 
split into NBC and BC and was put up front.  Your changes are likely 
minor but I think that RFC7950 is a template of how to format a new 
version of a protocol.

Tom Petch

> Tom Petch
>
>>
>> Tom Petch
>>
>>> Best,
>>> Tommy & Marcus
>>>
>>>> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello IPPM,
>>>>
>>>> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889
>>>> from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the
>>>> update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD
>>>> sponsored document.
>>>>
>>>> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to
>>>> substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the
>>>> design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a
>>>> non-practitioner and have driven some design changes with minimal
>>>> review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM
>>>> review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the
>>>> (expedited) working group process so that there's no confusion as to
>>>> why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.
>>>>
>>>> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
>>>> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of
>>>> doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I
>>>> hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake
>>>> out any detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need
>>>> to address concerns that people have.
>>>>
>>>> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents,
>>>> which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>>>>
>>>> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization
>>>> between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here
>>>> is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rf
>>>> c8321bis-02.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-r
>>>> fc8321bis-02.txt>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&u
>>>> rl2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&
>>>> url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rf
>>>> c8889bis-02.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-r
>>>> fc8889bis-02.txt>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&u
>>>> rl2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&
>>>> url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If
>>>> people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like
>>>> to think we could be done before IETF 114.
>>>>
>>>> Your friendly Area Director,
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ippm mailing list
>>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ippm mailing list
>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
> .
>


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From: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
To: t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
Thread-Index: AQHYStxJO21INiaCb0CNIlMKzP+ZxKzlkgaAgAAMW4CAACYGEIAAQTCAgABHsIA=
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2022 18:05:20 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hi Tom,
Please see my replies inline tagged as [GF].

Regards,

Giuseppe=20

-----Original Message-----
From: t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>=20
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 5:37 PM
To: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>; Tommy Pauly <tpauly=
=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis

On 08/04/2022 10:52, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> Thank you for your feedback.
> Please find my answers inline tagged as [GF].
>
> Regards,
>
> Giuseppe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of t petch
> Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 11:27 AM
> To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG=20
> <ippm@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
>
> On 08/04/2022 09:42, t petch wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 01:03, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>>> Hello IPPM,
<snip>
>>
>> 'this document'
>> Which document?
>>
>> Please post subsequent e-mails about one I-D only with the subject=20
>> line indicating which, else I will get confused (and may well confuse=20
>> others with my comments).
>
> I note that 'this document' fails to give any explanation of why it exist=
s (beyond the boiler-plate that tells me it is obsoleting)?
>
> Why?  I may know the answer but think it wrong to assume that others will=
.
>
> This should be in the Introduction and there should also be a 'Changes fr=
om ...'
>
> [GF]: Sure. I will add the explanation in the introduction of both RFC832=
1bis and RFC8889bis. It is to elevate the Experimental RFCs to Standard Tra=
ck. There are several implementations (e.g. https://datatracker.ietf.org/do=
c/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/  that need a normative reference for the m=
ethodology. Our initial approach was to use the informative reference but i=
t was not accepted by the IESG. Therefore it was suggested to obsolete the =
experimental docs with new standard docs.

Yes.  I have followed the thread and did voice my support for new RFC which=
 I am glad to see.  And below ...

[GF]: Thank you for the support.

> Please note that, for both drafts, you can find the Changes Log in Append=
ix with all the modifications from the original RFCs for each version.
  ... Yes but that is not quite what I had in mind.   Think of an=20
implementor who has accurately implemented RFC8321; they need to know if an=
d how to change the code, they do not want a blow-by-blow account of every =
text change, how the RFC-to-be came to be what it is, just a statement of w=
hat needs changing where (if anything); and an Appendix labelled 'Changes L=
og', while helpful for the WG, is a candidate for excision by the RFC Edito=
r whereas I am thinking of an Informative appendix that is referenced by th=
e Introduction - 'Appendix X contains a list of technical changes from RFC8=
321'. Look at RFC7950; this lists the changes from RFC6020 and, at the insi=
stence of the AD, the list was split into NBC and BC and was put up front. =
 Your changes are likely minor but I think that RFC7950 is a template of ho=
w to format a new version of a protocol.

[GF]: Thanks for the suggestion. We can surely consider to follow the templ=
ate of RFC7950. We are elevating the experimental RFCs to standard track so=
 all the changes are just about the structure, further clarification and th=
e use of a standard wording. No new additions to the methodology have been =
made. I can write a summary of the changes after the Introduction and it ca=
n be a short section that reports the recommendations for the implementatio=
n included in the standard track draft.

Tom Petch

> Tom Petch
>
>>
>> Tom Petch
>>
>>> Best,
>>> Tommy & Marcus
>>>
>>>> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrot=
e:
>>>>
>>>> Hello IPPM,
>>>>
>>>> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and=20
>>>> RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling=20
>>>> that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an=20
>>>> AD sponsored document.
>>>>
>>>> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to=20
>>>> substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the=20
>>>> design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a=20
>>>> non-practitioner and have driven some design changes with minimal=20
>>>> review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM=20
>>>> review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the
>>>> (expedited) working group process so that there's no confusion as=20
>>>> to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.
>>>>
>>>> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two draft=
s:
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
>>>> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of=20
>>>> doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I=20
>>>> hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake=20
>>>> out any detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need=20
>>>> to address concerns that people have.
>>>>
>>>> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents,=20
>>>> which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>>>>
>>>> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization=20
>>>> between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here=20
>>>> is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-=
r
>>>> f
>>>> c8321bis-02.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola=
-
>>>> r
>>>> fc8321bis-02.txt>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&
>>>> u rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt
>>>> & url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-=
r
>>>> f
>>>> c8889bis-02.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola=
-
>>>> r
>>>> fc8889bis-02.txt>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&
>>>> u rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt
>>>> & url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If=20
>>>> people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would=20
>>>> like to think we could be done before IETF 114.
>>>>
>>>> Your friendly Area Director,
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ippm mailing list
>>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ippm mailing list
>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
> .
>


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From nobody Mon Apr 11 12:40:48 2022
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Subject: [ippm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.

        Title           : In-situ OAM Deployment
        Authors         : Frank Brockners
                          Shwetha Bhandari
                          Daniel Bernier
                          Tal Mizrahi
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment-01.txt
	Pages           : 24
	Date            : 2022-04-11

Abstract:
   In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) collects
   operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
   traverses a path between two points in the network.  This document
   provides a framework for IOAM deployment and provides best current
   practices.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment-01

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment-01


Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts



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Subject: [ippm] R: [EXT]  WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hello IPPM.
I support as coauthor these drafts.
Telecom Italia/TIM uses these performance monitoring techniques within it=
s networks.
BR.
Mauro
_____________________
Mauro Cociglio
Telecom Italia/TIM
Via G. Reiss Romoli, 274
10148 - Torino (Italy)
Tel.: +390112285028
Mobile: +393357669751
_____________________




TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati.
Da: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> Per conto di Tommy Pauly
Inviato: venerd=EC 8 aprile 2022 02:04
A: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Oggetto: [EXT] [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis

Hello IPPM,

This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis and draf=
t-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin's emails below for details - the=
 main idea here is that we're moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to P=
roposed Standard.

The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG proc=
essing these documents. If we adopt, we'd plan to very shortly thereafter=
 do a working group last call.

Please reply to this email by Thursday, April 21 and indicate if you supp=
ort adopting this document.

Best,
Tommy & Marcus

On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com<mailto:m=
artin.h.duke@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello IPPM,

You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from=
 Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update w=
ould be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.

I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially a=
djust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The ch=
anges are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven s=
ome design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's import=
ant to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might a=
s well do the (expedited) working group process so that there's no confus=
ion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.

So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing th=
e work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow =
up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed obj=
ections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns that =
people have.

I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which =
are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.

For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between d=
raft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of dif=
fs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8321bis-02.txt
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt

https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8889bis-02.txt
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt

I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are=
 good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we co=
uld be done before IETF 114.

Your friendly Area Director,
Martin

_______________________________________________
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ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


Questo messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle p=
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issemination, copying, printing or use by anybody else is unauthorised. I=
f you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message and any =
attachments and advise the sender by return e-mail, Thanks.=0A=0ARispetta=
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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US">Hello IPPM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US">I support as coauthor these drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US">Telecom Italia/TIM uses these performance monitoring techniques w=
ithin its networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US">BR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US">Mauro<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">_______=
______________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Mauro C=
ociglio<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Telecom=
 Italia/TIM<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Via G. =
Reiss Romoli, 274<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">10148 -=
 Torino (Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Tel.: +=
390112285028<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Mobile:=
 +393357669751<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">_______=
______________<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language=
:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"msipfooterab480ce6" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin:0cm;text=
-align:center">
<span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:&quot;TIM Sans&quot;,serif;col=
or:#4472C4">TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati.</span><o:p></o=
:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0c=
m 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>Da:</b> ippm &lt;ippm-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>P=
er conto di </b>
Tommy Pauly<br>
<b>Inviato:</b> venerd=EC 8 aprile 2022 02:04<br>
<b>A:</b> IETF IPPM WG &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Oggetto:</b> [EXT] [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis<=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email starts an adoption call for&nbsp;draft-=
fioccola-rfc8321bis and&nbsp;draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=
&#8217;s emails below for details &#8212; the main idea here is that we&#=
8217;re moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.<o:p>=
</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The chairs would like to have a short amount of ti=
me spent in the WG processing these documents. If we adopt, we&#8217;d pl=
an to very shortly thereafter do a working group last call.<o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please reply to this email by <b>Thursday, April 2=
1</b>&nbsp;and indicate if you support adopting this document.<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tommy &amp; Marcus<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></=
p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com">martin.h.duke@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You&nbsp;may recall that there was a need to progr=
ess RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was=
 a feeling that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it =
as an AD sponsored document.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the =
need to substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the d=
esign in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practit=
ioner and have driven some design changes
 with minimal review. At this point I think it's important to get good IP=
PM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the (exp=
edited) working group process so that there's no confusion as to why IPPM=
 didn't formally review an update to its
 own documents.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So, as first step, I invite the working group&nbsp=
;to adopt these two drafts:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
fioccola-rfc8321bis/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc=
8321bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-=
fioccola-rfc8889bis/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc=
8889bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any objections to adoption, as always, should be t=
o the value of doing the work at all, and the general direction of the dr=
afts. I hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate&nbsp;WGLC t=
o shake out any detailed objections, though we
 will take as long as we need to address concerns that people have.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of =
these documents, which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.<o=
:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For those of you who like diffs, there was a big r=
eorganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. =
So here is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc=
8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt">https://www.ietf.or=
g/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt<=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddra=
ft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt=
">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&am=
p;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc=
8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt">https://www.ietf.or=
g/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt<=
/a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddra=
ft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt=
">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&am=
p;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adopt=
ion call. If people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I wo=
uld like to think we could be done before IETF 114.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your friendly Area Director,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Martin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br=
>
ippm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm">https://www.ietf.o=
rg/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

<table><tr><td bgcolor=3D#ffffff><font color=3D#000000><pre><hr/><table><=
tbody><tr class=3D"firstRow"><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-color: rg=
b(255, 255, 255); word-break: break-all;" width=3D"671"><a href=3D"https:=
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orosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate ricevuto questo documento per errore =
siete cortesemente pregati di darne immediata comunicazione al mittente e=
 di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Grazie.</span><p><br/></p><p><em><sp=
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attachments is confidential and may contain privileged information intend=
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anybody else is unauthorised. If you are not the intended recipient, plea=
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</pre></font></td></tr></table>

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From: Tianran Zhou <zhoutianran@huawei.com>
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Thread-Topic: [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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From: Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 20:25:58 +0530
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To: mohamed.boucadair@orange.com
Cc: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org>
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Med,

Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had before the latest
revision:

4.2 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-06#secti=
on-4.2>.
IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit

   [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300>] the O
   bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
   packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
   definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
   traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
   OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
   payload.


This was removed as per the discussion in this thread. Please check
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/

It looks like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM
packet to include the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next
protocol header chain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to update
the RFC8300.
Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce the above text ?

Thanks,
Shwetha



On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 8:09 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Franck,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the clarification even if I don=E2=80=99t think there is a
> confusion.
>
>
>
> Please note that SFC OAM packet is defined as follows:
>
>
>
> =3D=3D
>
>       Such a packet
>
>       is any NSH-encapsulated packet that exclusively includes OAM data.
>
>       An OAM data can be included in the Fixed-Length Context Header,
>
>       optional Context Headers, and/or the inner packet.
>
> =3D=3D
>
>
>
> Things are pretty clear (as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet) that the O bit
> must be unset when IOAM data is included + user data.
>
>
>
> The concern I had is that you are pointing to RFC8300 for the IOAM next
> protocol, which makes both =E2=80=9Cnone=E2=80=9D (i.e., no payload) and =
IOAM (as you
> request a new code) legitimate values.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Frank Brockners
> (fbrockne)
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* mardi 12 avril 2022 13:55
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; Sh=
wetha
> Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CX=
OFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>
>
>
> Hi Med,
>
>
>
> Sorry for arriving late to the party. Reading through your message below,
> there seems to be a confusion about the scope and concept of different OA=
M
> mechanisms.
>
>
>
> IOAM is scoped and designed to be protocol agnostic. IOAM data can be
> encapsulated into various protocols =E2=80=93 and NSH is one example =E2=
=80=93 but there is
> no semantic link between IOAM and the protocol used to encapsulate IOAM
> data.
>
>
>
> Protocols can have their protocol specific OAM methods and solutions, lik=
e
> SFC OAM. Those protocol specific solutions (like SFC OAM as an example) a=
re
> orthogonal to IOAM from a concept and scope perspective.
>
>
>
> From an SFC OAM perspective, your draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet-00 clearly an=
d
> rightly states that =E2=80=9CO bit: Setting this bit indicates an SFC OAM=
 packet.=E2=80=9D
> The O bit is about SFC OAM, and as such is orthogonal to =E2=80=9Canythin=
g IOAM=E2=80=9D.
> In earlier versions of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh we had text which stated
> that the O bit remains unchanged whether IOAM is present or not. To avoid
> any confusion, in -08 we removed this statement =E2=80=93 just to make it=
 crystal
> clear that there is no link between =E2=80=9CIOAM=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CS=
FC OAM=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> In addition, I don=E2=80=99t think that draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh would be =
the
> appropriate place to discuss and restrict deployment options. E.g., I=E2=
=80=99m not
> sure why we=E2=80=99d want to restrict a deployment to using a single IOA=
M header
> only. E.g., one could think of using different headers for different
> namespaces or groups of namespaces for operational reasons. IMHO, such a
> discussion =E2=80=93 if we really need it - would belong into
> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment, rather than into a draft that defines th=
e
> encap of IOAM into NSH.
>
>
>
> Hope this clarifies things =E2=80=93 and we can finish up draft-ietf-sfc-=
ioam-nsh
> :-).
>
>
>
> Cc=E2=80=99ing the ippm working group as an FYI.
>
>
>
> Thanks & Cheers, Frank
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, 4 April 2022 07:40
> *To:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com=
>;
> sfc@ietf.org; James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal
> Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CX=
OFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>
>
>
> Hi Shwetha, all,
>
>
>
> I agree with Greg that a statement is needed to be added to
> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.
>
>
>
> For example, the current text says the following:
>
>
>
>       Next Protocol:  8-bit unsigned integer that determines the type of
>
>          header following IOAM.  The semantics of this field are
>
>          identical to the Next Protocol field in [RFC8300
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc830=
0__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyr=
eClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnDoYxXlRw$>
> ].
>
>
>
> which means that =E2=80=9CNone=E2=80=9D is authorized. The O-bit must be =
set for such
> packets, while it should be unset for other values indicating user payloa=
d
> as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. Absent a pointer to the OAM packet, an
> implementer will have to guess the behavior to follow.
>
>
>
> BTW, the text quoted above when combined with:
>
>
>
>    IANA is requested to allocate protocol numbers for the following "NSH
>
>    Next Protocol" related to IOAM:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=A6means that IOAM data can be encapsulated in IOAM data. I don=E2=
=80=99t think you
> want such a behavior. No?
>
>
>
> One last comment: please update the security considerations with
> NSH-specific considerations. An approach is to simply refer to Section 5 =
of
> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Shwetha Bhandari
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 4 avril 2022 02:41
> *=C3=80 :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.co=
m>;
> sfc@ietf.org; James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal
> Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CX=
OFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the feedback. From the discussion and Jim's feedback
>
>  "My only point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be
> obsolete as you use the next protocol field rather than the context
> headers. It seems to me that the definition of the O-bit should be that i=
f
> set then the context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions."
>
> Which makes sense. The O-bit does not influence IOAM handling as it is
> carried as a next protocol.
>
> Hence the consideration section on O-bit is removed in the new revision.
> What do you think?
>
>
>
> Thanks
>
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022, 1:41 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Shwetha,
>
> thank you for your kind consideration of my comments and for
> thoroughly addressing those in the new version. I've noticed that you've
> decided to remove the discussion of the O bit in the NSH from the draft
> altogether. I think that it might be helpful to a reader if the document
> includes a short clarification and the reference to
> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-pa=
cket-00.html__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr9eVEi_p_=
xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVditWyZ_8$> like
> the following:
>
> For the IOAM functionality is SFC NSH described in this document the O bi=
t
>
> in NSH MUST be set clear according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet].
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:06 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim, Greg,
>
>
>
> We have addressed the additional comments received in this discussion. Ca=
n
> you please take a look :
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-iet=
f-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIx=
r9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVd4KRpUCA$>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:27 PM James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Shwetha,
>
>
>
> My only point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolete
> as you use the next protocol field rather than the context headers. It
> seems to me that the definition of the O-bit should be that if set then t=
he
> context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions. Currently that i=
s
> not what 8300 says. As I said in my previous emails I would really like t=
o
> hear the WGs opinion on what to do with the O-bit and we certainly need t=
o
> reconcile the various documents to be following the same standard.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> *From:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:57 AM
> *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-s=
fc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbj=
deh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_8pjQ1iQ$>
>
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
>
>
> On the O bit handling, are you suggesting that the O-bit for IOAM, that i=
s
> carried as a next protocol following NSH header, is not applicable? Would
> removing the section on O-bit considerations resolve your concern?
>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> >I have one more question. As the draft now mentions the option of using
> IOAM Direct Export to collect the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecti=
ng
> that in the figure on p.2. I think that the caption "IOAM Option and Data
> Space" might be reworded to "IOAM Option and Optional Data Space".
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
> Yes, that will make it accurate. I will update the diagram and publish a
> new version.
>
>
>
> >I cannot find the text in the draft suggesting that an SFF that does not
> support IOAM may forward the packet with the NSH Next Protocol field equa=
l
> to IOAM protocol identifier. Could you help me find it?
>
> Can you suggest text to help with this ? This would be a generic problem
> for NSH implementation when a next protocol is set to a value it does not
> understand. What should is recommended action in this situation?
>
>
>
>
>
> > For example, if the Loopback IOAM flag is set, the node is required to
> send a copy of the packet back to the IOAM encapsulating node. It is not
> clear to me how an SFF learns the identity of the IOAM encapsulating node
> and how it encapsulates the loopbacked packet. Can you help me find how i=
t
> is supposed to work in the NSH?
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags#section-=
4.2
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-=
ioam-flags*23section-4.2&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*=
7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7=
C0*7C637800154631120774*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjo=
iV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DzcOpC0Gzzi8xzhttBqWa=
eaU3pMd0KDo*2FZYdGsEPG0uE*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!M=
Z3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqD=
ItW_cH_6kAg$>
> :
>
>   A Loopback flag that is set indicates to the transit nodes processing
>
>    this option that they are to create a copy of the received packet and
>
>    send the copy back to the source of the packet.
>
> Given this is explained in the flag handling, do you see a need to define
> it again in NSH? IMHO the explanation of flag handling is quite generic f=
or
> any packet based transport.
>
> Please share your thoughts and text suggestions to improve the draft for
> flag handling if it requires clarification.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 6:48 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Shwetha,
>
> I have one more question. As the draft now mentions the option of using
> IOAM Direct Export to collect the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecti=
ng
> that in the figure on p.2. I think that the caption "IOAM Option and Data
> Space" might be reworded to "IOAM Option and Optional Data Space".
>
> What are your thoughts?
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 7:29 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim, Greg,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the follow up.
>
> 1) On O-bit: I am a bit confused about the O-bit feedback. Are you
> suggesting that it should not be a consideration for IOAM as it is handle=
d
> as a next protocol and not as NSH context headers?
>
> What should a SFC element handle a packet containing IOAM as next header
> and does not implement IOAM and hence does not understand IOAM? I think
> O-bit helps in such situations to help such elements decide to drop or
> forward without processing the IOAM header.
>
> Let me know if that is not the case and if simply not considering O-bit i=
n
> the context of IOAM is what you would recommend.
>
> 2) Active or Loopback flags
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!eu05ObEvXtn=
VX2OXFzl0g16vk36xSqTyjMReG_i6BavtG_ru2AnjQSjXHiZ_Ve3sBjJRuHMBUg*24&data=3D0=
4*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83c=
f*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown=
*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6=
Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DDvpZHlkn0PNCP5*2BzFQzGayutZGPUMxJXtPll6nR8Ay8*3D&rese=
rved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xx=
jFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_4eduZWg$> -
> there is nothing specific for NSH on how the flags are to be handled.  Th=
e
> IOAM specific fields are to be handled as recommended by the respective
> IOAM drafts. Do you see any specific NSH considerations to be documented
> for IOAM fields?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shwetha
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:29 PM James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Shwetha & Greg,
>
>
>
> Thank you for the update.
>
>
>
> I still believe however that more work is necessary to reconcile how SFC
> OAM is supposed to work. RFC 8300 says:
>
>
>
>    O bit:  Setting this bit indicates an OAM packet (see [RFC6291
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6291__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzp=
GjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJs06rKUNw*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.=
n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b=
240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8=
eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&s=
data=3D4wRcNgj93har9TlylAfX*2BtbW24VCqfneSZd0rD9CRzs*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93=
z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8b5uw-Yg$>
> ]).
>
>       The actual format and processing of SFC OAM packets is outside the
>
>       scope of this specification (for example, see [SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8300*ref-SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bz=
L7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJsisioAug*24=
&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08=
d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*=
7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWw=
iLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DA6fkAO8CwRJeW5tLLEpU0GhZrqsBOm7nUiE1QiMxwVQ*=
3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs=
9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_b7k_TUA$>
> ]
>
>       for one approach).
>
>
>
>       The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for
>
>       non-OAM packets.
>
>
>
> If we look at RFC6291 it simply describes what OAM is supposed to mean an=
d
> this is independent from SFC. The SFC-OAM-Framework (now RFC 8924) in
> section 6.3 says:
>
>
>
>    The Next Protocol field in the NSH header may be used to indicate what
> OAM function is intended
>
>    or what toolset is used.  Any other overlay encapsulations used at the
> service layer must have a
>
>    similar way to indicate the intended OAM function.
>
>
>
> So my reading of this is that if you take 8300 together with the framewor=
k
> then 1. The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets, and 2. The Next Protocol
> field may or may not be used to indicate which OAM function is to be
> applied. From this I can determine that iOAM has taken the approach of
> using the next protocol field to indicate how to process the OAM packet a=
nd
> does NOT use the NSH context headers in any way shape or form. This seems
> consistent with the current definitions of the O-bit from RFC 8300 and
> processing guidelines from RFC 8924.
>
>
>
> However, your document says:
>
>
>
> *4.1
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*section-4.1__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw4=
5to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJtX=
MLMQUw*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c324=
02334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C6378001546=
31277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTi=
I6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3Dw3hANsqqvVWz5oeH*2BLfPwS*2Fxwh2hNER=
JwCw5zwdrAMA*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3=
Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDIt=
W9Fp7_C8w$>.
> IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit*
>
>
>
>    [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8300__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzp=
GjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJuMIrqXAQ*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.=
n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b=
240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8=
eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&s=
data=3Da*2BVevL6noSzqRzdWg6dscjiqevlLbxcgEdTEmfJAY7U*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93=
z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW92fQLzlQ$>]
> the O
>
>    bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
>
>    packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
>
>    definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
>
>    traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
>
>    OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
>
>    payload.
>
>
>
> This text basically says that if the packet is customer traffic and
> happens to carry iOAM data then it is NOT an OAM packet.  What am I
> missing, customer traffic or not, both carry iOAM data so how are they
> different within an SFC domain?
>
>
>
> In addition to the above I will note that there is still a conflict with
> Greg=E2=80=99s draft namely this text from section 4:
>
>    *  O bit set and the "Next Protocol" value does not match the value
>
>       Active SFC OAM (TBA1), defined in Section 10.1
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ie=
tf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam*section-10.1__*3BIw!!M=
Z3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbM=
ABJv1ohYIeg*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db8249=
4c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C63780=
0154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiL=
CJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DHTLx6e4sQCvsjXZKxG1GA8XPvdswsQ=
KEMIEABitkprw*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw=
45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-=
EwTZ2zw$>
> :
>
>
>
>          - An SFC NSH Context Header(s) contain an OAM processing
>
>          instructions or data.
>
>
>
>          - The "Next Protocol" field determines the type of the payload.
>
>
>
> The above text suggests to me that if the O-bit is set and the next
> protocol is not active SFC OAM then it is **required** that OAM data will
> be in the NSH context headers (which is not the case for iOAM) and the ne=
xt
> protocol will indicate what follows the NSH header. While iOAM does follo=
w
> the NSH header as indicated by the next protocol there is still an
> expectation that OAM is also carried in the NSH context headers. This see=
ms
> to be in conflict with RFC 8300 AND RFC 8924.
>
>
>
> This of course is just my reading of the text and I would like to hear
> yours and other folks thoughts.
>
>
>
> Jim
>
>
>
> *From:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 11:25 PM
> *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ie=
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>
>
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Sorry for the late action on this.
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelink=
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> has been now posted with the edits per this discussion.
>
>
>
> Hi Jim,
>
>
>
> After Greg's review please let us know if the changes are good to progres=
s
> the draft to the next step.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 7:31 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Shwetha,
>
> thank you for the detailed response to my comments. Please feel free to
> share any updates you're considering for the next version. I'll be glad t=
o
> work together on these.
>
> I have several follow-up notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM Shwetha Bhandari <
> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Greg,
>
>
>
> Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your comments
> inline @Shwetha:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Dear Authors and All,
>
> I've read the current version of the draft and have some comments I'd lik=
e
> to share with you. I much appreciate your thoughts on where this work
> should go considering developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my note=
s
> and questions below:
>
>    - It is stated in the Abstract that:
>
>    In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records
>    operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
>    traverses a path between two points in the network.
>
> But that is the case only for the pre-allocated and incremental trace
> option types. The Direct Export option
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
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> does not write telemetry data into the data packet itself but export
> telemetry information in a specially constructed packet.
>
> And as we are talking about different IOAM trace options, the question of
> the scope of this document seems appropriate. There is a WGLC on two IOAM
> documents
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
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DItW-FRADPxg$>
> active through September 15th at the IPPM WG. I believe that it would be
> beneficial if we had a single document that describes the applicability o=
f
> IOAM in all its functionality defined by documents in IPPM WG. Of course,
> that cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since th=
e
> IPPM WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a great
> time to address the applicability of the Direct Export trace type
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelink=
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> and Loopback and Active flags defined in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
m/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelink=
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> It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the
> applicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms
>
>
>
> Shwetha> This is a fair point. We will revise the  draft with text in the
> abstract and Section 3 IOAM-Type to be updated to include the usage of
> trace and DEX options.  The encapsulation of IOAM options within NSH itse=
lf
> in its current form already supports all the IOAM Option Type defined bot=
h
> from draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data and draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export
> along with the flags supported within the options. Hence the
> IOAM-data-field definitions in the draft will remain unchanged.
>
> GIM>> I agree that the definitions of the IOAM data-fields are invariant
> in various data plane encapsulations. You likely follow the discussion of
> the IAOM Direct Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think that f=
or
> SFC NSH, IOAM Direct Export could be as simple as "use the local policy".
> The applicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems to require
> detailed explanation by SFP actors.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>    - The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsulated packet
>    is defined in Section 3:
>
>    IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH
>
>    using a next protocol header which follows the NSH MD context
>
>    headers.
>
> I've checked RFC 8300 but couldn't find it defines the Next Protocol
> header. Also, it appears that NSH Context headers are optional. Hence my
> question. Is the presence of an NSH Context header required when using
> IOAM? Could you clarify which mechanism is used to identify the payload o=
f
> an SFC NSH-encapsulated packet as IOAM?
>
> Shwetha> We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol header but using IOAM
> as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and requested in IANA
> section. Following is the proposed text to align with the RFC 8300
> reference to context headers following base header and service path heade=
r:
>
> "The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].  IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in
> NSH using a next protocol to identify IOAM data fields that follows NSH
> context headers."
>
> GIM>> I think that RFC 8300 views data following Context Headers as NSH
> payload, not being "in NSH".
>
>
>    - If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined in Section 3
>    correctly, the header's length is limited by 1020 octets, while the
>    effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. Is th=
at
>    correct? What is the recommended technique of collecting IOAM data tha=
t
>    exceeds that limit?
>
> Shwetha > IOAM options inherently support specifying the size limits at
> the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing the solution
> the data types included and number of nodes expected to be adding the dat=
a
> should be selected. This is covered in deployment
> considerations draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.
>
>
>    - In Section 4.1, I've found the text reflecting the history of the
>    discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH encapsulation.=
 As
>    the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an Appendix.
>
> Shwetha > Agreed, revised draft will have this section moved to Appendix.
>
> GIM>> Thank you.
>
>
>    - I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed in Section 4.2
>    inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NSH
>    encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when user=
 data
>    follows it, the O-bit must not be set as. If there's no user data afte=
r the
>    IOAM header, then the O-bit must be set. But from the perspective of N=
SH
>    encapsulation, it includes specially constructed data added for the so=
le
>    purpose of collecting OAM/telemetry information. Then, why, in one cas=
e,
>    the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the
>    NSH-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?
>
> Shwetha > The reason for not setting the O-bit for packets that contains
> actual user data is because RFC 8300 has " SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier
> implementations that do not support
>
>       SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set". It will =
be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit set that carry user data as IO=
AM can be inserted insitu.
>
> For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH =
following the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.
>
>  GIM>> This is an interesting situation. I agree that there could be an
> SFC element not supporting "SFC OAM procedures" (not clear what these are=
).
> By the same token, would such SFC element support IOAM, be capable of
> processing IOAM without adverse impact to user data? I am not certain and
> it seems that it might be better to recommend that NSH packets with IOAM =
be
> dropped by an SFP element if it does not support "SFC OAM". What are your
> thoughts?
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shwetha
>
> I much appreciate your consideration of my comments and questions and
> looking forward to your feedback.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>
> Dear WG:
>
>
>
> This email starts a 2 week Working Group Last Call for
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].
>
>
>
> Please read this document if you haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent ver=
sion and
> send your comments to the SFC WG list no later than September 1st 2021.
>
>
>
> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated
> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this poin=
t.
>
>
>
> Lastly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate
> whether you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
>
>
> Jim & Joel
>
>
>
> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.co=
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--000000000000da3a4905dc764213
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Med,<div><br></div><div>Thanks for the de=
tails: this is exactly what we had before the latest revision:</div><div><p=
re class=3D"gmail-newpage" style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;marg=
in-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span class=3D"gmail-h3" =
style=3D"display:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><a class=3D"gmail-s=
elflink" id=3D"gmail-section-4.2" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/=
html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-06#section-4.2">4.2</a>.  IOAM and the use of =
the NSH O-bit</span>

   [<a id=3D"gmail-ref-RFC8300">RFC8300</a>] defines an &quot;O bit&quot; f=
or OAM packets.  Per [<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8=
300" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Header (NSH)&quot;">RFC8300</a>] the O
   bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
   packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
   definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
   traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
   OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
   payload.
</pre><br class=3D"gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></div>This was removed =
as per the discussion in this thread. Please check <a href=3D"https://maila=
rchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/">https://mailarch=
ive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/</a><br><br>It looks =
like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM packet to incl=
ude the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next protocol header c=
hain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to update the RFC8300.</div=
><div dir=3D"ltr">Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce=
 the above text ?<br><br>Thanks,<br>Shwetha<div><br></div><div><br></div></=
div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On=
 Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 8:09 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orang=
e.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote cla=
ss=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid =
rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-730678043818508665WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Franck,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thank you for the clarification even if I don=E2=80=99t thin=
k there is a confusion.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Please note that SFC OAM packet is defined as follows:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Such a packet<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is any NSH-enc=
apsulated packet that exclusively includes OAM data.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 An OAM data ca=
n be included in the Fixed-Length Context Header,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 optional Conte=
xt Headers, and/or the inner packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Things are pretty clear (as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet) t=
hat the O bit must be unset when IOAM data is included + user data.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">The concern I had is that you are pointing to RFC8300 for th=
e IOAM next protocol, which makes both =E2=80=9Cnone=E2=80=9D (i.e., no pay=
load) and IOAM (as you request a new
 code) legitimate values. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>De la part d=
e</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne)<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> mardi 12 avril 2022 13:55<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;; Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.=
com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg Mirsk=
y &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsk=
y@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ie=
tf.org</a>; James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei=
.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.miz=
rahi.phd@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN=
2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sorry for arriving late to the =
party. Reading through your message below, there seems to be a confusion ab=
out the scope and concept of different OAM mechanisms.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IOAM is scoped and designed to =
be protocol agnostic. IOAM data can be encapsulated into various protocols =
=E2=80=93 and NSH is one example =E2=80=93 but there is no semantic link be=
tween IOAM and the
 protocol used to encapsulate IOAM data.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Protocols can have their protoc=
ol specific OAM methods and solutions, like SFC OAM. Those protocol specifi=
c solutions (like SFC OAM as an example) are orthogonal to IOAM from a conc=
ept
 and scope perspective. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From an SFC OAM perspective, yo=
ur draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet-00 clearly and rightly states that =E2=80=9CO =
bit: Setting this bit indicates an SFC OAM packet.=E2=80=9D The O bit is ab=
out SFC OAM, and
 as such is orthogonal to =E2=80=9Canything IOAM=E2=80=9D. In earlier versi=
ons of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh we had text which stated that the O bit rema=
ins unchanged whether IOAM is present or not. To avoid any confusion, in -0=
8 we removed this statement =E2=80=93 just to make it crystal
 clear that there is no link between =E2=80=9CIOAM=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CSF=
C OAM=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In addition, I don=E2=80=99t th=
ink that draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh would be the appropriate place to discuss =
and restrict deployment options. E.g., I=E2=80=99m not sure why we=E2=80=99=
d want to restrict a deployment
 to using a single IOAM header only. E.g., one could think of using differe=
nt headers for different namespaces or groups of namespaces for operational=
 reasons. IMHO, such a discussion =E2=80=93 if we really need it - would be=
long into draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment,
 rather than into a draft that defines the encap of IOAM into NSH.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hope this clarifies things =E2=
=80=93 and we can finish up draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh :-).<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc=E2=80=99ing the ippm working=
 group as an FYI.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks &amp; Cheers, Frank<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@or=
ange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 4 April 2022 07:40<br>
<b>To:</b> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughts=
pot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg M=
irsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregim=
irsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-cha=
irs@ietf.org</a>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; James G=
uichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!J=
pBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO=
2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Shwetha, all,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I agree with Greg that a statement is needed =
to be added to draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">For example, the current text says the follow=
ing:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Next Protocol:=
=C2=A0 8-bit unsigned integer that determines the type of<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 header following IOAM.=C2=A0 The semantics of this field are<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 identical to the Next Protocol field in [</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.c=
om/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ=
4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qU=
w70GqHI4QEKQpGnDoYxXlRw$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Header (NSH)&quot;=
" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-US">RFC8300</span></a></span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">].=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">which means that =E2=80=9CNone=E2=80=9D is au=
thorized. The O-bit must be set for such packets, while it should be unset =
for other values indicating user payload
 as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. Absent a pointer to the OAM packet, an i=
mplementer will have to guess the behavior to follow.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">BTW, the text quoted above when combined with=
:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 IANA is requested to allocate pr=
otocol numbers for the following &quot;NSH<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Next Protocol&quot; related to I=
OAM:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=A6means that IOAM data can be encapsul=
ated in IOAM data. I don=E2=80=99t think you want such a behavior. No?<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">One last comment: please update the security =
considerations with NSH-specific considerations. An approach is to simply r=
efer to Section 5 of
 draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Shwetha Bhandari<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 4 avril 2022 02:41<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fb=
rockne@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; James G=
uichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN=
2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks=C2=A0for the feedback. From the discussion an=
d Jim&#39;s feedback<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0&quot;<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">My only =
point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolete as you us=
e the next protocol field rather than the context headers. It seems to me t=
hat the definition of the O-bit should be that
 if set then the context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions.&q=
uot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Which makes sense. The O-bit does not influence IOAM=
 handling as it is carried as a next protocol.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hence the consideration section on O-bit is removed =
in the new revision. What do you think?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 4, 2022, 1:41 AM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your kind consideration of my comments=
 and for thoroughly=C2=A0addressing those in the new version. I&#39;ve noti=
ced that you&#39;ve decided to remove the discussion of the O bit in the NS=
H from the draft altogether. I think that it=C2=A0might
 be helpful=C2=A0to a reader if the document includes a short clarification=
 and the reference to
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sf=
c-oam-packet-00.html__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr=
9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVditWyZ_8$" target=3D"_bla=
nk">
draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet</a>=C2=A0like the following:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the IOAM functionality is SFC NSH described in t=
his document the O bit<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">in NSH MUST be set clear according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-=
oam-packet].<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:06 AM Shwetha Bhandari &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwet=
ha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jim, Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have addressed the additional comments received i=
n this discussion. Can you please take a look :<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ie=
tf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtU=
wScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wz=
u6YfUSVd4KRpUCA$" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddra=
ft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:27 PM James Guichard &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n=
.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My only point was that in the c=
ase of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolete as you use the next protocol fie=
ld rather than the context headers. It seems to me that
 the definition of the O-bit should be that if set then the context headers=
 are used to obtain the OAM instructions. Currently that is not what 8300 s=
ays. As I said in my previous emails I would really like to hear the WGs op=
inion on what to do with the O-bit
 and we certainly need to reconcile the various documents to be following t=
he same standard.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thought=
spot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.=
com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5=
SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_8pjQ1iQ$" =
target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On the O bit handling, are you =
suggesting that the O-bit for IOAM, that is carried as a next protocol foll=
owing=C2=A0NSH header, is not applicable? Would removing
 the section on O-bit considerations resolve your concern?<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;I have one more question. A=
s the draft now mentions the option of using IOAM Direct Export to collect =
the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecting that in the
 figure on p.2. I think that the caption &quot;IOAM Option and Data Space&q=
uot; might be reworded=C2=A0to &quot;IOAM Option and Optional Data Space&qu=
ot;.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What are your thoughts?<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Yes, that will make it accurate=
. I will update the diagram and publish a new version.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;I cannot find the text in t=
he draft suggesting that an SFF that does not support IOAM may forward the =
packet with the NSH Next Protocol field equal to IOAM protocol
 identifier. Could you help me find it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Can you suggest text to help wi=
th this ? This would be a generic problem for NSH implementation when a nex=
t protocol is set to a value it does not understand.
 What should is recommended action in this situation?<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; For example, if the Loopba=
ck IOAM flag is set, the node is required to send a copy of the packet back=
 to the IOAM encapsulating node. It is not clear to me
 how an SFF learns the identity of the IOAM encapsulating node and how it e=
ncapsulates the loopbacked packet. Can you help me find how it is supposed =
to work in the NSH?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.c=
om/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2F=
datatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*23section-4.=
2&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c3240233=
4fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C63780015463112=
0774*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik=
1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DzcOpC0Gzzi8xzhttBqWaeaU3pMd0KDo*2FZ=
YdGsEPG0uE*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY=
!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_cH_6kAg=
$" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-=
ioam-flags#section-4.2</a>:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>=C2=A0 A Loopback flag that is set indicates to the transit nodes processi=
ng</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 this option th=
at they are to create a copy of the received packet and</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 send the copy =
back to the source of the packet. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u=
></span></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given this is explained in the =
flag handling, do you see a need to define it again in NSH? IMHO the explan=
ation of flag handling is quite generic for any packet
 based transport.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please share your thoughts and =
text suggestions to improve the draft for flag handling if it requires clar=
ification.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 6:48 AM =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have one more question. As th=
e draft now mentions the option of using IOAM Direct Export to collect the =
IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecting that in the
 figure on p.2. I think that the caption &quot;IOAM Option and Data Space&q=
uot; might be reworded=C2=A0to &quot;IOAM Option and Optional Data Space&qu=
ot;.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What are your thoughts?<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 7:29 AM =
Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim, Greg,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for the follow up.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1) On O-bit: I am a bit confuse=
d about the O-bit feedback. Are you suggesting that it should not be a cons=
ideration for IOAM as it is handled as a next protocol
 and not as NSH context headers?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What should a SFC element handl=
e a packet containing IOAM as next header and does not implement IOAM and h=
ence does not understand IOAM? I think O-bit helps in
 such situations to help such elements decide to drop or forward without pr=
ocessing the IOAM header.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Let me know if that is not the =
case and if simply not considering O-bit in the context of IOAM is what you=
 would recommend.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">2)
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!eu0=
5ObEvXtnVX2OXFzl0g16vk36xSqTyjMReG_i6BavtG_ru2AnjQSjXHiZ_Ve3sBjJRuHMBUg*24&=
amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334f=
c08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C6378001546312770=
05*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h=
aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DDvpZHlkn0PNCP5*2BzFQzGayutZGPUMxJXtPl=
l6nR8Ay8*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw4=
5to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_4=
eduZWg$" target=3D"_blank">
Active or Loopback flags</a>=C2=A0- there is nothing specific=C2=A0for NSH =
on how the flags are to be handled.=C2=A0 The IOAM specific fields are to b=
e handled as recommended by the respective IOAM drafts. Do you see any spec=
ific NSH considerations to be documented for IOAM
 fields?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:29 PM =
James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha &amp; Greg,<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you for the update.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I still believe however that mo=
re work is necessary to reconcile how SFC OAM is supposed to work. RFC 8300=
 says:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit:=C2=A0 Setting=
 this bit indicates an OAM packet (see [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v=
3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furld=
efense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc62=
91__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy=
5gHA8obfbMABJs06rKUNw*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.=
com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7=
C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ=
QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3D4wRcNgj93har=
9TlylAfX*2BtbW24VCqfneSZd0rD9CRzs*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AV=
bjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8b5uw-Yg$" title=3D"&quot;Guidelines for the Use of =
the &quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC6291</a>]).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Th=
e actual format and processing of SFC OAM packets is outside the</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sc=
ope of this specification (for example, see [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2=
Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2F=
rfc8300*ref-SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywf=
zpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJsisioAug*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7C=
james.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbG=
Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C=
3000&amp;sdata=3DA6fkAO8CwRJeW5tLLEpU0GhZrqsBOm7nUiE1QiMxwVQ*3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFW=
gJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_b7k_TUA$" target=3D"_bla=
nk">SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK</a>]</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 fo=
r one approach).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Th=
e O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 no=
n-OAM packets.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If we look at RFC6291 it simply=
 describes what OAM is supposed to mean and this is independent from SFC. T=
he SFC-OAM-Framework (now RFC 8924) in section 6.3 says:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Next Protocol fi=
eld in the NSH header may be used to indicate what OAM function is intended=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 or what toolset is u=
sed.=C2=A0 Any other overlay encapsulations used at the service layer must =
have
 a </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0similar way to =
indicate the intended OAM function.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So my reading of this is that i=
f you take 8300 together with the framework then 1. The O-bit MUST be set f=
or OAM packets, and 2. The Next Protocol field may or
 may not be used to indicate which OAM function is to be applied. From this=
 I can determine that iOAM has taken the approach of using the next protoco=
l field to indicate how to process the OAM packet and does NOT use the NSH =
context headers in any way shape
 or form. This seems consistent with the current definitions of the O-bit f=
rom RFC 8300 and processing guidelines from RFC 8924.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">However, your document says:<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2=
Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2F=
draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*section-4.1__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCb=
Cwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJtXMLMQUw*24&amp;data=3D0=
4*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83c=
f*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown=
*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6=
Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3Dw3hANsqqvVWz5oeH*2BLfPwS*2Fxwh2hNERJwCw5zwdrAMA*3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!=
f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW9Fp7_C8w$=
" target=3D"_blank">4.1</a>.=C2=A0
 IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC8300] defines an=
 &quot;O bit&quot; for OAM packets.=C2=A0 Per [<a href=3D"https://urldefens=
e.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F=
*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*=
2Frfc8300__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10=
KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJuMIrqXAQ*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fut=
urewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3Da*2BV=
evL6noSzqRzdWg6dscjiqevlLbxcgEdTEmfJAY7U*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoO=
gCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW92fQLzlQ$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Hea=
der (NSH)&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8300</a>]
 the O</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 bit must be set for =
OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 Packe=
ts with IOAM data included MUST follow this</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition, i.e. the=
 O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 traffic which also c=
arries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM packets which ca=
rry only IOAM data without any regular data</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 payload.</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This text basically says that i=
f the packet is customer traffic and happens to carry iOAM data then it is =
NOT an OAM packet.=C2=A0 What am I missing, customer traffic
 or not, both carry iOAM data so how are they different within an SFC domai=
n?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In=
 addition to the above I will note that there is still a conflict with Greg=
=E2=80=99s draft namely this text from section 4:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 O bit set an=
d the &quot;Next Protocol&quot; value does not match the value</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ac=
tive SFC OAM (TBA1), defined in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam*section-10.1__=
*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5g=
HA8obfbMABJv1ohYIeg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.co=
m*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1=
*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI=
joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DHTLx6e4sQCvsjX=
ZKxG1GA8XPvdswsQKEMIEABitkprw*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjde=
h2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-EwTZ2zw$" target=3D"_blank">
Section 10.1</a>:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - An SFC NSH Context Header(s) contain an OAM processing</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 instructions or data.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - The &quot;Next Protocol&quot; field determines the type o=
f the payload.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The above text suggests to me t=
hat if the O-bit is set and the next protocol is not active SFC OAM then it=
 is *<b>required</b>* that OAM data will be in the NSH
 context headers (which is not the case for iOAM) and the next protocol wil=
l indicate what follows the NSH header. While iOAM does follow the NSH head=
er as indicated by the next protocol there is still an expectation that OAM=
 is also carried in the NSH context
 headers. This seems to be in conflict with RFC 8300 AND RFC 8924. <u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This of course is just my readi=
ng of the text and I would like to hear yours and other folks thoughts.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thought=
spot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 31, 2022 11:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.=
com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefens=
e.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-io=
am-nsh*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10=
KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJu3416GCQ*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fut=
urewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DNKz8*=
2Fm*2Fh7WXjK0OP8NF4j5cQ*2FYgSrSMULRmDt*2FkX*2B10*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5=
ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8EWrHtpA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sorry for the late action on th=
is.
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.=
org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.gu=
ichard*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW=
IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sda=
ta*3Dpl23JSzuzl5p2F8vooPyxVcUnWRdcWx*2F26MRFfJAIh4*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fV=
r4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJvEbkwM5w*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.gui=
chard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI=
joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sd=
ata=3DdpoyXLu*2F9fGVSgLtewdI7wNfSPdrkhs7FtBdD3Aq7*2B0*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__=
;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-Hq=
DItW9PuM1neA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07</a> has be=
en now posted with the edits per this discussion.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After Greg&#39;s review please =
let us know if the changes are good to progress the draft to the next step.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 7:31 PM=
 Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">thank you for the detailed resp=
onse to my comments. Please feel free to share any updates you&#39;re consi=
dering for the next version. I&#39;ll be glad to work together
 on these.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have several follow-up notes =
in-lined below under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM=
 Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your=
 comments inline @Shwetha:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear Authors and All,<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;ve read the current versi=
on of the draft and have some comments I&#39;d like to share with you. I mu=
ch appreciate your thoughts on where this work should go considering
 developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my notes and questions below:<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">It is stated in the Abstract that:<u></u><u></u></span=
></li></ul>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations=
, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in the packet while the =
packet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two points in the network.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But that is the case only for t=
he pre-allocated and incremental trace option=C2=A0types. The
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePah=
NAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fu=
turewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3Di7sTr0=
MtC5qfzx3twOKSpbW8LkQJzsAJBxF*2FZPLUwKc*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4=
clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt0mRguJg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guich=
ard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c=
753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo=
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdat=
a=3DyVGpJY1y6dud5c44HOsptPjqEuXdNUa1DMzjAelvU5c*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-H=
qDItW-BwxdRIg$" target=3D"_blank">
Direct Export option</a> does not write telemetry=C2=A0data into the data p=
acket itself but export telemetry information in a specially constructed pa=
cket.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">And as we are talking about dif=
ferent IOAM trace options, the question=C2=A0of the scope of this document =
seems appropriate. There is
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fmailarchive.ietf.org*2Farch*2Fmsg*2Fippm*2FA0OcGQ5LlNj=
njfRVp_iUTMYMrcs*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfP=
NhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHOndSFRg*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guicha=
rd*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi=
MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3=
DcHtvsgDl*2FuzSv70oS9LN5l2o5nEIwiKHDZ1sfiFJCrE*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpG=
jZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJu2SsX7cg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjam=
es.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C300=
0&amp;sdata=3DY*2BwywuTSj4SpugrjmDTquAY0MZWKoT43CMjsyha*2FnOc*3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8A=
Vbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FRADPxg$" target=3D"_blank">
a WGLC on two IOAM documents</a> active through September 15th at the IPPM =
WG. I believe that it would be beneficial if we had a single document that =
describes the applicability of IOAM in all its functionality defined by doc=
uments in IPPM WG. Of course, that
 cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since the IPPM=
 WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a great time =
to address the applicability of
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePah=
NAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fu=
turewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3Di7sTr0=
MtC5qfzx3twOKSpbW8LkQJzsAJBxF*2FZPLUwKc*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4=
clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt0mRguJg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guich=
ard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c=
753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo=
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdat=
a=3DyVGpJY1y6dud5c44HOsptPjqEuXdNUa1DMzjAelvU5c*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-H=
qDItW-BwxdRIg$" target=3D"_blank">
the Direct Export trace type</a> and Loopback and Active flags defined in=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2F=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.=
com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioa=
m-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNA=
YMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHO7lReVw*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futu=
rewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM=
DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3D1kqtcu3x=
jl1C7ytQ*2BoaKdiQN96rQt94e1S2ElC0nD3M*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4cl=
Cr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt8NqRRKg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichar=
d*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM=
C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=
=3DzzcnXlewWKrtEDv4BmsNNk4pvDlMKNKvPzBZ2dZJm5k*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-Hq=
DItW-gOuTqwg$" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags</a>.
 It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the a=
pplicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha&gt; This is a fair point. We will revise the=C2=A0 d=
raft with text in the abstract and Section 3 I<span style=3D"color:black;ba=
ckground:rgb(255,253,245)">OAM-Type</span>=C2=A0to
 be updated to include the usage of trace and DEX options.=C2=A0 The encaps=
ulation of IOAM options within NSH itself in its current form already suppo=
rts all the IOAM Option Type defined both from draft-<span style=3D"color:b=
lack;background:rgb(255,253,245)">ietf-ippm-ioam-data
 and=C2=A0</span>draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export along with the flags su=
pported within the options. Hence the IOAM-data-field definitions in the dr=
aft will remain unchanged.=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; I agree that the de=
finitions of the IOAM data-fields are invariant in various data plane encap=
sulations. You likely follow the discussion of the IAOM Direct
 Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think that for SFC NSH, IOAM =
Direct Export could be as simple as &quot;use the local policy&quot;. The a=
pplicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems to require detailed exp=
lanation by SFP actors.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsu=
lated=C2=A0packet is defined in Section 3:<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0IOAM-Data-Fields a=
re carried in NSH<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0using a next proto=
col header which follows the NSH MD context<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0headers.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;ve checked RFC 8300 but c=
ouldn&#39;t find it defines the Next Protocol header. Also, it appears that=
 NSH Context headers=C2=A0are optional. Hence my question. Is the
 presence of an NSH Context header required when using IOAM? Could you clar=
ify which mechanism is used to identify the payload of an SFC NSH-encapsula=
ted packet as IOAM?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha&gt; We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol heade=
r but using IOAM as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and
 requested in IANA section. Following is the proposed text to align with th=
e RFC 8300 reference to context headers following base header and service p=
ath header:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">&quot;The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].=C2=A0 IOAM-Data-Field=
s are carried in NSH=C2=A0using a next protocol to identify IOAM data field=
s that
 follows NSH context headers.&quot;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; I think that RFC 83=
00 views data following Context Headers as NSH payload, not being &quot;in =
NSH&quot;.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined =
in Section 3 correctly, the header&#39;s length is limited by 1020 octets, =
while the effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. =
Is that correct? What is the recommended
 technique of collecting IOAM data that exceeds that limit?<u></u><u></u></=
span></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; IOAM options inherently support specifying the =
size limits at the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing
 the solution the data types included and number of nodes expected to be ad=
ding the data should be selected. This is covered in deployment considerati=
ons=C2=A0draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">In Section 4.1, I&#39;ve found the text reflecting the=
 history of the discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH enc=
apsulation. As the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an=
 Appendix.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; Agreed, revised draft will have this section mo=
ved to Appendix.=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you.=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed i=
n Section 4.2 inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NS=
H encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when user da=
ta follows it, the O-bit must not
 be set as. If there&#39;s no user data after the IOAM header, then the O-b=
it must be set. But from the perspective of NSH encapsulation, it includes =
specially constructed data added for the sole purpose of collecting OAM/tel=
emetry information. Then, why, in one
 case, the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the NSH=
-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; The reason for not setting the O-bit for packet=
s that contains actual user data is because RFC 8300 has &quot;<span style=
=3D"color:black">
 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support</span></sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets w=
ith O bit set&quot;. It will be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit s=
et that carry user data as IOAM can be inserted insitu.</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH f=
ollowing the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.=C2=A0 </span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0GIM&gt;&gt; This is an in=
teresting situation. I agree that there could be an SFC element not support=
ing &quot;SFC OAM procedures&quot; (not clear what these are). By the same
 token, would such SFC element support IOAM, be capable of processing IOAM =
without adverse impact to user data? I am not certain and it seems that it =
might be better to recommend that NSH packets with IOAM be dropped by an SF=
P element if it does not support
 &quot;SFC OAM&quot;. What are your thoughts?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thanks,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I much appreciate your consider=
ation of my comments and questions and looking forward to your feedback.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM=
 James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email starts a 2 week Work=
ing Group Last Call for draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please read this document if yo=
u haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent version and send your comments to th=
e SFC WG list no later than September 1<sup>st</sup> 2021.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">I=
f you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on =
the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for
 this point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">=
=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">L=
astly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate whet=
her you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim &amp; Joel<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
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lZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FOmuSHA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a></span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:131.25pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
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</div>
</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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</blockquote>
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</div>
</div>
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</div>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] I: [EXT]  WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Dear Tommy & Marcus,
I support adoption of the two RFCs (8889bis as author)

Best regards,

Riccardo Sisto

-- 
========================================================
Riccardo Sisto
Politecnico di Torino - Dip. di Automatica e Informatica
Corso Duca degli Abruzzi, 24 - I-10129 Torino - ITALY
Phone: +39 011 090 7073 - Fax: +39 011 090 7099
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> *Da:* ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> *Per conto di * Tommy Pauly
> *Inviato:* venerdì 8 aprile 2022 02:04
> *A:* IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
> *Oggetto:* [EXT] [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
> 
> Hello IPPM,
> 
> This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis 
> and draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin’s emails below for details — 
> the main idea here is that we’re moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to 
> Proposed Standard.
> 
> The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG 
> processing these documents. If we adopt, we’d plan to very shortly thereafter 
> do a working group last call.
> 
> Please reply to this email by *Thursday, April 21* and indicate if you support 
> adopting this document.
> 
> Best,
> 
> Tommy & Marcus
> 
>     On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com
>     <mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com>> wrote:
> 
>     Hello IPPM,
> 
>     You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from
>     Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update
>     would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.
> 
>     I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially
>     adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The
>     changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven
>     some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's
>     important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we
>     might as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there's no
>     confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own
>     documents.
> 
>     So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
> 
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
> 
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
>     <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
> 
>     Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing the
>     work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up
>     the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed
>     objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns
>     that people have.
> 
>     I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which
>     are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
> 
>     For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between
>     draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of
>     diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt
>     <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt>
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>     <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt
>     <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt>
> 
>     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>     <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
> 
>     I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are
>     good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we
>     could be done before IETF 114.
> 
>     Your friendly Area Director,
> 
>     Martin
> 
>     _______________________________________________
>     ippm mailing list
>     ippm@ietf.org <mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm>
> 


From nobody Tue Apr 12 08:54:27 2022
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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 08:53:56 -0700
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To: Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
Cc: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>,  "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>,  James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>,  "draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org>
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--000000000000359df105dc771211
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Hi Shwetha,
I believe that the text you've quoted is helpful. I would suggest changing
references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet] throughout that
paragraph.

Regards,
Greg

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:

> Med,
>
> Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had before the latest
> revision:
>
> 4.2 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-06#sec=
tion-4.2>.  IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit
>
>    [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300 <https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300>] the O
>    bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
>    packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
>    definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
>    traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
>    OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
>    payload.
>
>
> This was removed as per the discussion in this thread. Please check
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/
>
> It looks like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM
> packet to include the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next
> protocol header chain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to updat=
e
> the RFC8300.
> Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce the above text =
?
>
> Thanks,
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 8:09 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Franck,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the clarification even if I don=E2=80=99t think there is a
>> confusion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that SFC OAM packet is defined as follows:
>>
>>
>>
>> =3D=3D
>>
>>       Such a packet
>>
>>       is any NSH-encapsulated packet that exclusively includes OAM data.
>>
>>       An OAM data can be included in the Fixed-Length Context Header,
>>
>>       optional Context Headers, and/or the inner packet.
>>
>> =3D=3D
>>
>>
>>
>> Things are pretty clear (as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet) that the O bi=
t
>> must be unset when IOAM data is included + user data.
>>
>>
>>
>> The concern I had is that you are pointing to RFC8300 for the IOAM next
>> protocol, which makes both =E2=80=9Cnone=E2=80=9D (i.e., no payload) and=
 IOAM (as you
>> request a new code) legitimate values.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Med
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Frank Brockners
>> (fbrockne)
>> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* mardi 12 avril 2022 13:55
>> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>;
>> Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <
>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard =
<
>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>=
;
>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
>> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69C=
XOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Med,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for arriving late to the party. Reading through your message below=
,
>> there seems to be a confusion about the scope and concept of different O=
AM
>> mechanisms.
>>
>>
>>
>> IOAM is scoped and designed to be protocol agnostic. IOAM data can be
>> encapsulated into various protocols =E2=80=93 and NSH is one example =E2=
=80=93 but there is
>> no semantic link between IOAM and the protocol used to encapsulate IOAM
>> data.
>>
>>
>>
>> Protocols can have their protocol specific OAM methods and solutions,
>> like SFC OAM. Those protocol specific solutions (like SFC OAM as an
>> example) are orthogonal to IOAM from a concept and scope perspective.
>>
>>
>>
>> From an SFC OAM perspective, your draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet-00 clearly
>> and rightly states that =E2=80=9CO bit: Setting this bit indicates an SF=
C OAM
>> packet.=E2=80=9D The O bit is about SFC OAM, and as such is orthogonal t=
o =E2=80=9Canything
>> IOAM=E2=80=9D. In earlier versions of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh we had tex=
t which
>> stated that the O bit remains unchanged whether IOAM is present or not. =
To
>> avoid any confusion, in -08 we removed this statement =E2=80=93 just to =
make it
>> crystal clear that there is no link between =E2=80=9CIOAM=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9CSFC OAM=E2=80=9D.
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition, I don=E2=80=99t think that draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh would be=
 the
>> appropriate place to discuss and restrict deployment options. E.g., I=E2=
=80=99m not
>> sure why we=E2=80=99d want to restrict a deployment to using a single IO=
AM header
>> only. E.g., one could think of using different headers for different
>> namespaces or groups of namespaces for operational reasons. IMHO, such a
>> discussion =E2=80=93 if we really need it - would belong into
>> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment, rather than into a draft that defines t=
he
>> encap of IOAM into NSH.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hope this clarifies things =E2=80=93 and we can finish up draft-ietf-sfc=
-ioam-nsh
>> :-).
>>
>>
>>
>> Cc=E2=80=99ing the ippm working group as an FYI.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks & Cheers, Frank
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, 4 April 2022 07:40
>> *To:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <
>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.co=
m>;
>> sfc@ietf.org; James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal
>> Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>; draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] WGLC for
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69C=
XOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Shwetha, all,
>>
>>
>>
>> I agree with Greg that a statement is needed to be added to
>> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.
>>
>>
>>
>> For example, the current text says the following:
>>
>>
>>
>>       Next Protocol:  8-bit unsigned integer that determines the type of
>>
>>          header following IOAM.  The semantics of this field are
>>
>>          identical to the Next Protocol field in [RFC8300
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc83=
00__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOy=
reClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnDoYxXlRw$>
>> ].
>>
>>
>>
>> which means that =E2=80=9CNone=E2=80=9D is authorized. The O-bit must be=
 set for such
>> packets, while it should be unset for other values indicating user paylo=
ad
>> as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. Absent a pointer to the OAM packet, an
>> implementer will have to guess the behavior to follow.
>>
>>
>>
>> BTW, the text quoted above when combined with:
>>
>>
>>
>>    IANA is requested to allocate protocol numbers for the following "NSH
>>
>>    Next Protocol" related to IOAM:
>>
>>
>>
>> =E2=80=A6means that IOAM data can be encapsulated in IOAM data. I don=E2=
=80=99t think you
>> want such a behavior. No?
>>
>>
>>
>> One last comment: please update the security considerations with
>> NSH-specific considerations. An approach is to simply refer to Section 5=
 of
>> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Med
>>
>>
>>
>> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Shwetha Bhandari
>> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 4 avril 2022 02:41
>> *=C3=80 :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <
>> fbrockne@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org; James Guichard <
>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>=
;
>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
>> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69C=
XOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the feedback. From the discussion and Jim's feedback
>>
>>  "My only point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be
>> obsolete as you use the next protocol field rather than the context
>> headers. It seems to me that the definition of the O-bit should be that =
if
>> set then the context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions."
>>
>> Which makes sense. The O-bit does not influence IOAM handling as it is
>> carried as a next protocol.
>>
>> Hence the consideration section on O-bit is removed in the new revision.
>> What do you think?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Shwetha
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022, 1:41 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shwetha,
>>
>> thank you for your kind consideration of my comments and for
>> thoroughly addressing those in the new version. I've noticed that you've
>> decided to remove the discussion of the O bit in the NSH from the draft
>> altogether. I think that it might be helpful to a reader if the document
>> includes a short clarification and the reference to
>> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-p=
acket-00.html__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr9eVEi_p=
_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVditWyZ_8$> like
>> the following:
>>
>> For the IOAM functionality is SFC NSH described in this document the O b=
it
>>
>> in NSH MUST be set clear according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet].
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:06 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
>> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim, Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> We have addressed the additional comments received in this discussion.
>> Can you please take a look :
>>
>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ie=
tf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGI=
xr9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVd4KRpUCA$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shwetha
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:27 PM James Guichard <
>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shwetha,
>>
>>
>>
>> My only point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolet=
e
>> as you use the next protocol field rather than the context headers. It
>> seems to me that the definition of the O-bit should be that if set then =
the
>> context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions. Currently that =
is
>> not what 8300 says. As I said in my previous emails I would really like =
to
>> hear the WGs opinion on what to do with the O-bit and we certainly need =
to
>> reconcile the various documents to be following the same standard.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:57 AM
>> *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>;
>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVb=
jdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_8pjQ1iQ$>
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>>
>>
>> On the O bit handling, are you suggesting that the O-bit for IOAM, that
>> is carried as a next protocol following NSH header, is not applicable?
>> Would removing the section on O-bit considerations resolve your concern?
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> >I have one more question. As the draft now mentions the option of using
>> IOAM Direct Export to collect the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflect=
ing
>> that in the figure on p.2. I think that the caption "IOAM Option and Dat=
a
>> Space" might be reworded to "IOAM Option and Optional Data Space".
>>
>> What are your thoughts?
>>
>> Yes, that will make it accurate. I will update the diagram and publish a
>> new version.
>>
>>
>>
>> >I cannot find the text in the draft suggesting that an SFF that does no=
t
>> support IOAM may forward the packet with the NSH Next Protocol field equ=
al
>> to IOAM protocol identifier. Could you help me find it?
>>
>> Can you suggest text to help with this ? This would be a generic problem
>> for NSH implementation when a next protocol is set to a value it does no=
t
>> understand. What should is recommended action in this situation?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> > For example, if the Loopback IOAM flag is set, the node is required to
>> send a copy of the packet back to the IOAM encapsulating node. It is not
>> clear to me how an SFF learns the identity of the IOAM encapsulating nod=
e
>> and how it encapsulates the loopbacked packet. Can you help me find how =
it
>> is supposed to work in the NSH?
>>
>>
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags#section=
-4.2
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm=
-ioam-flags*23section-4.2&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com=
*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*=
7C0*7C637800154631120774*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj=
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DzcOpC0Gzzi8xzhttBqW=
aeaU3pMd0KDo*2FZYdGsEPG0uE*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-Hq=
DItW_cH_6kAg$>
>> :
>>
>>   A Loopback flag that is set indicates to the transit nodes processing
>>
>>    this option that they are to create a copy of the received packet and
>>
>>    send the copy back to the source of the packet.
>>
>> Given this is explained in the flag handling, do you see a need to defin=
e
>> it again in NSH? IMHO the explanation of flag handling is quite generic =
for
>> any packet based transport.
>>
>> Please share your thoughts and text suggestions to improve the draft for
>> flag handling if it requires clarification.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shwetha
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 6:48 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>
>> Hi Shwetha,
>>
>> I have one more question. As the draft now mentions the option of using
>> IOAM Direct Export to collect the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflect=
ing
>> that in the figure on p.2. I think that the caption "IOAM Option and Dat=
a
>> Space" might be reworded to "IOAM Option and Optional Data Space".
>>
>> What are your thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 7:29 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
>> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Jim, Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the follow up.
>>
>> 1) On O-bit: I am a bit confused about the O-bit feedback. Are you
>> suggesting that it should not be a consideration for IOAM as it is handl=
ed
>> as a next protocol and not as NSH context headers?
>>
>> What should a SFC element handle a packet containing IOAM as next header
>> and does not implement IOAM and hence does not understand IOAM? I think
>> O-bit helps in such situations to help such elements decide to drop or
>> forward without processing the IOAM header.
>>
>> Let me know if that is not the case and if simply not considering O-bit
>> in the context of IOAM is what you would recommend.
>>
>> 2) Active or Loopback flags
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.i=
etf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!eu05ObEvXt=
nVX2OXFzl0g16vk36xSqTyjMReG_i6BavtG_ru2AnjQSjXHiZ_Ve3sBjJRuHMBUg*24&data=3D=
04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83=
cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknow=
n*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI=
6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DDvpZHlkn0PNCP5*2BzFQzGayutZGPUMxJXtPll6nR8Ay8*3D&res=
erved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1x=
xjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_4eduZWg$> -
>> there is nothing specific for NSH on how the flags are to be handled.  T=
he
>> IOAM specific fields are to be handled as recommended by the respective
>> IOAM drafts. Do you see any specific NSH considerations to be documented
>> for IOAM fields?
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shwetha
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:29 PM James Guichard <
>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shwetha & Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> Thank you for the update.
>>
>>
>>
>> I still believe however that more work is necessary to reconcile how SFC
>> OAM is supposed to work. RFC 8300 says:
>>
>>
>>
>>    O bit:  Setting this bit indicates an OAM packet (see [RFC6291
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.i=
etf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6291__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfz=
pGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJs06rKUNw*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames=
.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
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3z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8b5uw-Yg$>
>> ]).
>>
>>       The actual format and processing of SFC OAM packets is outside the
>>
>>       scope of this specification (for example, see [SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.i=
etf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8300*ref-SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!b=
zL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJsisioAug*2=
4&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc0=
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wiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DA6fkAO8CwRJeW5tLLEpU0GhZrqsBOm7nUiE1QiMxwVQ=
*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSg=
s9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_b7k_TUA$>
>> ]
>>
>>       for one approach).
>>
>>
>>
>>       The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for
>>
>>       non-OAM packets.
>>
>>
>>
>> If we look at RFC6291 it simply describes what OAM is supposed to mean
>> and this is independent from SFC. The SFC-OAM-Framework (now RFC 8924) i=
n
>> section 6.3 says:
>>
>>
>>
>>    The Next Protocol field in the NSH header may be used to indicate wha=
t
>> OAM function is intended
>>
>>    or what toolset is used.  Any other overlay encapsulations used at th=
e
>> service layer must have a
>>
>>    similar way to indicate the intended OAM function.
>>
>>
>>
>> So my reading of this is that if you take 8300 together with the
>> framework then 1. The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets, and 2. The Next
>> Protocol field may or may not be used to indicate which OAM function is =
to
>> be applied. From this I can determine that iOAM has taken the approach o=
f
>> using the next protocol field to indicate how to process the OAM packet =
and
>> does NOT use the NSH context headers in any way shape or form. This seem=
s
>> consistent with the current definitions of the O-bit from RFC 8300 and
>> processing guidelines from RFC 8924.
>>
>>
>>
>> However, your document says:
>>
>>
>>
>> *4.1
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.i=
etf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*section-4.1__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw=
45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt=
XMLMQUw*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32=
402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154=
631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT=
iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3Dw3hANsqqvVWz5oeH*2BLfPwS*2Fxwh2hNE=
RJwCw5zwdrAMA*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ=
3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDI=
tW9Fp7_C8w$>.
>> IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit*
>>
>>
>>
>>    [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.i=
etf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8300__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfz=
pGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJuMIrqXAQ*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames=
.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3=
b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d=
8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&=
sdata=3Da*2BVevL6noSzqRzdWg6dscjiqevlLbxcgEdTEmfJAY7U*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH9=
3z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW92fQLzlQ$>]
>> the O
>>
>>    bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
>>
>>    packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
>>
>>    definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
>>
>>    traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
>>
>>    OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
>>
>>    payload.
>>
>>
>>
>> This text basically says that if the packet is customer traffic and
>> happens to carry iOAM data then it is NOT an OAM packet.  What am I
>> missing, customer traffic or not, both carry iOAM data so how are they
>> different within an SFC domain?
>>
>>
>>
>> In addition to the above I will note that there is still a conflict with
>> Greg=E2=80=99s draft namely this text from section 4:
>>
>>    *  O bit set and the "Next Protocol" value does not match the value
>>
>>       Active SFC OAM (TBA1), defined in Section 10.1
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.i=
etf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam*section-10.1__*3BIw!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfb=
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94c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C6378=
00154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIi=
LCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DHTLx6e4sQCvsjXZKxG1GA8XPvdsws=
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w45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW=
-EwTZ2zw$>
>> :
>>
>>
>>
>>          - An SFC NSH Context Header(s) contain an OAM processing
>>
>>          instructions or data.
>>
>>
>>
>>          - The "Next Protocol" field determines the type of the payload.
>>
>>
>>
>> The above text suggests to me that if the O-bit is set and the next
>> protocol is not active SFC OAM then it is **required** that OAM data
>> will be in the NSH context headers (which is not the case for iOAM) and =
the
>> next protocol will indicate what follows the NSH header. While iOAM does
>> follow the NSH header as indicated by the next protocol there is still a=
n
>> expectation that OAM is also carried in the NSH context headers. This se=
ems
>> to be in conflict with RFC 8300 AND RFC 8924.
>>
>>
>>
>> This of course is just my reading of the text and I would like to hear
>> yours and other folks thoughts.
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 11:25 PM
>> *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> *Cc:* James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>;
>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.i=
etf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGM=
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>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for the late action on this.
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fd=
oc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*=
40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a=
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1fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DdpoyXLu*2=
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oqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs=
9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW9PuM1neA$>
>> has been now posted with the edits per this discussion.
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Jim,
>>
>>
>>
>> After Greg's review please let us know if the changes are good to
>> progress the draft to the next step.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shwetha
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 7:31 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Shwetha,
>>
>> thank you for the detailed response to my comments. Please feel free to
>> share any updates you're considering for the next version. I'll be glad =
to
>> work together on these.
>>
>> I have several follow-up notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM Shwetha Bhandari <
>> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>>
>>
>> Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your comments
>> inline @Shwetha:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>>
>> Dear Authors and All,
>>
>> I've read the current version of the draft and have some comments I'd
>> like to share with you. I much appreciate your thoughts on where this wo=
rk
>> should go considering developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my not=
es
>> and questions below:
>>
>>    - It is stated in the Abstract that:
>>
>>    In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records
>>    operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
>>    traverses a path between two points in the network.
>>
>> But that is the case only for the pre-allocated and incremental trace
>> option types. The Direct Export option
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__=
https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-expo=
rt*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9e=
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>> does not write telemetry data into the data packet itself but export
>> telemetry information in a specially constructed packet.
>>
>> And as we are talking about different IOAM trace options, the question o=
f
>> the scope of this document seems appropriate. There is a WGLC on two
>> IOAM documents
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelin=
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>> active through September 15th at the IPPM WG. I believe that it would be
>> beneficial if we had a single document that describes the applicability =
of
>> IOAM in all its functionality defined by documents in IPPM WG. Of course=
,
>> that cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since t=
he
>> IPPM WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a grea=
t
>> time to address the applicability of the Direct Export trace type
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__=
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>> and Loopback and Active flags defined in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__=
https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__*=
3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM=
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f9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*=
7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2=
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*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*=
7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIj=
oiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DzzcnXlewWKrtEDv4Bms=
NNk4pvDlMKNKvPzBZ2dZJm5k*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioq=
JSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xx=
jFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-gOuTqwg$>.
>> It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the
>> applicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms
>>
>>
>>
>> Shwetha> This is a fair point. We will revise the  draft with text in th=
e
>> abstract and Section 3 IOAM-Type to be updated to include the usage of
>> trace and DEX options.  The encapsulation of IOAM options within NSH its=
elf
>> in its current form already supports all the IOAM Option Type defined bo=
th
>> from draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data and draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export
>> along with the flags supported within the options. Hence the
>> IOAM-data-field definitions in the draft will remain unchanged.
>>
>> GIM>> I agree that the definitions of the IOAM data-fields are invariant
>> in various data plane encapsulations. You likely follow the discussion o=
f
>> the IAOM Direct Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think that =
for
>> SFC NSH, IOAM Direct Export could be as simple as "use the local policy"=
.
>> The applicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems to require
>> detailed explanation by SFP actors.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>    - The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsulated packet
>>    is defined in Section 3:
>>
>>    IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH
>>
>>    using a next protocol header which follows the NSH MD context
>>
>>    headers.
>>
>> I've checked RFC 8300 but couldn't find it defines the Next Protocol
>> header. Also, it appears that NSH Context headers are optional. Hence my
>> question. Is the presence of an NSH Context header required when using
>> IOAM? Could you clarify which mechanism is used to identify the payload =
of
>> an SFC NSH-encapsulated packet as IOAM?
>>
>> Shwetha> We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol header but using IOA=
M
>> as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and requested in IANA
>> section. Following is the proposed text to align with the RFC 8300
>> reference to context headers following base header and service path head=
er:
>>
>> "The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].  IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in
>> NSH using a next protocol to identify IOAM data fields that follows NSH
>> context headers."
>>
>> GIM>> I think that RFC 8300 views data following Context Headers as NSH
>> payload, not being "in NSH".
>>
>>
>>    - If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined in Section 3
>>    correctly, the header's length is limited by 1020 octets, while the
>>    effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. Is t=
hat
>>    correct? What is the recommended technique of collecting IOAM data th=
at
>>    exceeds that limit?
>>
>> Shwetha > IOAM options inherently support specifying the size limits at
>> the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing the solutio=
n
>> the data types included and number of nodes expected to be adding the da=
ta
>> should be selected. This is covered in deployment
>> considerations draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.
>>
>>
>>    - In Section 4.1, I've found the text reflecting the history of the
>>    discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH encapsulation=
. As
>>    the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an Appendix=
.
>>
>> Shwetha > Agreed, revised draft will have this section moved to Appendix=
.
>>
>> GIM>> Thank you.
>>
>>
>>    - I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed in Section 4.2
>>    inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NSH
>>    encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when use=
r data
>>    follows it, the O-bit must not be set as. If there's no user data aft=
er the
>>    IOAM header, then the O-bit must be set. But from the perspective of =
NSH
>>    encapsulation, it includes specially constructed data added for the s=
ole
>>    purpose of collecting OAM/telemetry information. Then, why, in one ca=
se,
>>    the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the
>>    NSH-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?
>>
>> Shwetha > The reason for not setting the O-bit for packets that contains
>> actual user data is because RFC 8300 has " SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier
>> implementations that do not support
>>
>>       SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set". It will=
 be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit set that carry user data as I=
OAM can be inserted insitu.
>>
>> For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH=
 following the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.
>>
>>  GIM>> This is an interesting situation. I agree that there could be an
>> SFC element not supporting "SFC OAM procedures" (not clear what these ar=
e).
>> By the same token, would such SFC element support IOAM, be capable of
>> processing IOAM without adverse impact to user data? I am not certain an=
d
>> it seems that it might be better to recommend that NSH packets with IOAM=
 be
>> dropped by an SFP element if it does not support "SFC OAM". What are you=
r
>> thoughts?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Shwetha
>>
>> I much appreciate your consideration of my comments and questions and
>> looking forward to your feedback.
>>
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM James Guichard <
>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>>
>> Dear WG:
>>
>>
>>
>> This email starts a 2 week Working Group Last Call for
>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].
>>
>>
>>
>> Please read this document if you haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent ve=
rsion and
>> send your comments to the SFC WG list no later than September 1st 2021.
>>
>>
>>
>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated
>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this poi=
nt.
>>
>>
>>
>> Lastly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate
>> whether you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks!
>>
>>
>>
>> Jim & Joel
>>
>>
>>
>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.c=
om/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelin=
ks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__=
https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh*2F__*3B!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7=
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37792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luM=
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obfbMABJv33kGkLw*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5d=
b82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C=
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MzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DS6sx7MrrVkzKepVgj45q*2F2K=
PZzBMyOFnol*2BMfgRQ730*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJS=
UqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxj=
FWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FOmuSHA$>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>> sfc mailing list
>> sfc@ietf.org
>>
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--000000000000359df105dc771211
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Shwetha,<div>I believe that the text you&#39;ve quoted =
is helpful. I would suggest changing references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.ietf=
-sfc-oam-packet] throughout that paragraph.</div><div><br></div><div>Regard=
s,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr=
" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com">shwetha.bhandari@thoug=
htspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding=
-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Med,<div><br></div><div>Thanks=
 for the details: this is exactly what we had before the latest revision:</=
div><div><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top:0px;margin-bottom:0px=
;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"display:inline;font-siz=
e:1em;font-weight:bold"><a id=3D"gmail-m_2516809974449838372gmail-section-4=
.2" href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-0=
6#section-4.2" target=3D"_blank">4.2</a>.  IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bi=
t</span>

   [<a id=3D"gmail-m_2516809974449838372gmail-ref-RFC8300">RFC8300</a>] def=
ines an &quot;O bit&quot; for OAM packets.  Per [<a href=3D"https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Header (NSH)=
&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8300</a>] the O
   bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
   packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
   definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
   traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
   OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
   payload.
</pre><br></div>This was removed as per the discussion in this thread. Plea=
se check <a href=3D"https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseN=
OhxknAw_dqvj6M/" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sf=
c/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/</a><br><br>It looks like we are going in a l=
oop here. This definition of SFC OAM packet to include the OAM data that co=
mes in inner packets via the next protocol header chain is introduced in dr=
aft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to update the RFC8300.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Jim, W=
hat are you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce the above text ?<br><br=
>Thanks,<br>Shwetha<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gm=
ail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 8:=
09 PM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"=
gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(20=
4,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Franck,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thank you for the clarification even if I don=E2=80=99t thin=
k there is a confusion.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Please note that SFC OAM packet is defined as follows:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Such a packet<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is any NSH-enc=
apsulated packet that exclusively includes OAM data.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 An OAM data ca=
n be included in the Fixed-Length Context Header,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 optional Conte=
xt Headers, and/or the inner packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Things are pretty clear (as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet) t=
hat the O bit must be unset when IOAM data is included + user data.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">The concern I had is that you are pointing to RFC8300 for th=
e IOAM next protocol, which makes both =E2=80=9Cnone=E2=80=9D (i.e., no pay=
load) and IOAM (as you request a new
 code) legitimate values. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>De la part d=
e</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne)<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> mardi 12 avril 2022 13:55<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;; Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.=
com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg Mirsk=
y &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsk=
y@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ie=
tf.org</a>; James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei=
.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.miz=
rahi.phd@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN=
2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sorry for arriving late to the =
party. Reading through your message below, there seems to be a confusion ab=
out the scope and concept of different OAM mechanisms.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IOAM is scoped and designed to =
be protocol agnostic. IOAM data can be encapsulated into various protocols =
=E2=80=93 and NSH is one example =E2=80=93 but there is no semantic link be=
tween IOAM and the
 protocol used to encapsulate IOAM data.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Protocols can have their protoc=
ol specific OAM methods and solutions, like SFC OAM. Those protocol specifi=
c solutions (like SFC OAM as an example) are orthogonal to IOAM from a conc=
ept
 and scope perspective. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From an SFC OAM perspective, yo=
ur draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet-00 clearly and rightly states that =E2=80=9CO =
bit: Setting this bit indicates an SFC OAM packet.=E2=80=9D The O bit is ab=
out SFC OAM, and
 as such is orthogonal to =E2=80=9Canything IOAM=E2=80=9D. In earlier versi=
ons of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh we had text which stated that the O bit rema=
ins unchanged whether IOAM is present or not. To avoid any confusion, in -0=
8 we removed this statement =E2=80=93 just to make it crystal
 clear that there is no link between =E2=80=9CIOAM=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CSF=
C OAM=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In addition, I don=E2=80=99t th=
ink that draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh would be the appropriate place to discuss =
and restrict deployment options. E.g., I=E2=80=99m not sure why we=E2=80=99=
d want to restrict a deployment
 to using a single IOAM header only. E.g., one could think of using differe=
nt headers for different namespaces or groups of namespaces for operational=
 reasons. IMHO, such a discussion =E2=80=93 if we really need it - would be=
long into draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment,
 rather than into a draft that defines the encap of IOAM into NSH.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hope this clarifies things =E2=
=80=93 and we can finish up draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh :-).<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc=E2=80=99ing the ippm working=
 group as an FYI.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks &amp; Cheers, Frank<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@or=
ange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 4 April 2022 07:40<br>
<b>To:</b> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughts=
pot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg M=
irsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregim=
irsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-cha=
irs@ietf.org</a>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; James G=
uichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!J=
pBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO=
2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Shwetha, all,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I agree with Greg that a statement is needed =
to be added to draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">For example, the current text says the follow=
ing:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Next Protocol:=
=C2=A0 8-bit unsigned integer that determines the type of<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 header following IOAM.=C2=A0 The semantics of this field are<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 identical to the Next Protocol field in [</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.c=
om/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ=
4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qU=
w70GqHI4QEKQpGnDoYxXlRw$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Header (NSH)&quot;=
" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-US">RFC8300</span></a></span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">].=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">which means that =E2=80=9CNone=E2=80=9D is au=
thorized. The O-bit must be set for such packets, while it should be unset =
for other values indicating user payload
 as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. Absent a pointer to the OAM packet, an i=
mplementer will have to guess the behavior to follow.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">BTW, the text quoted above when combined with=
:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 IANA is requested to allocate pr=
otocol numbers for the following &quot;NSH<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Next Protocol&quot; related to I=
OAM:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=A6means that IOAM data can be encapsul=
ated in IOAM data. I don=E2=80=99t think you want such a behavior. No?<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">One last comment: please update the security =
considerations with NSH-specific considerations. An approach is to simply r=
efer to Section 5 of
 draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Shwetha Bhandari<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 4 avril 2022 02:41<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fb=
rockne@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; James G=
uichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN=
2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks=C2=A0for the feedback. From the discussion an=
d Jim&#39;s feedback<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0&quot;<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">My only =
point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolete as you us=
e the next protocol field rather than the context headers. It seems to me t=
hat the definition of the O-bit should be that
 if set then the context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions.&q=
uot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Which makes sense. The O-bit does not influence IOAM=
 handling as it is carried as a next protocol.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hence the consideration section on O-bit is removed =
in the new revision. What do you think?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 4, 2022, 1:41 AM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your kind consideration of my comments=
 and for thoroughly=C2=A0addressing those in the new version. I&#39;ve noti=
ced that you&#39;ve decided to remove the discussion of the O bit in the NS=
H from the draft altogether. I think that it=C2=A0might
 be helpful=C2=A0to a reader if the document includes a short clarification=
 and the reference to
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sf=
c-oam-packet-00.html__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr=
9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVditWyZ_8$" target=3D"_bla=
nk">
draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet</a>=C2=A0like the following:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the IOAM functionality is SFC NSH described in t=
his document the O bit<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">in NSH MUST be set clear according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-=
oam-packet].<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:06 AM Shwetha Bhandari &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwet=
ha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jim, Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have addressed the additional comments received i=
n this discussion. Can you please take a look :<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ie=
tf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtU=
wScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wz=
u6YfUSVd4KRpUCA$" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddra=
ft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:27 PM James Guichard &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n=
.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My only point was that in the c=
ase of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolete as you use the next protocol fie=
ld rather than the context headers. It seems to me that
 the definition of the O-bit should be that if set then the context headers=
 are used to obtain the OAM instructions. Currently that is not what 8300 s=
ays. As I said in my previous emails I would really like to hear the WGs op=
inion on what to do with the O-bit
 and we certainly need to reconcile the various documents to be following t=
he same standard.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thought=
spot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.=
com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5=
SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_8pjQ1iQ$" =
target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On the O bit handling, are you =
suggesting that the O-bit for IOAM, that is carried as a next protocol foll=
owing=C2=A0NSH header, is not applicable? Would removing
 the section on O-bit considerations resolve your concern?<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;I have one more question. A=
s the draft now mentions the option of using IOAM Direct Export to collect =
the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecting that in the
 figure on p.2. I think that the caption &quot;IOAM Option and Data Space&q=
uot; might be reworded=C2=A0to &quot;IOAM Option and Optional Data Space&qu=
ot;.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What are your thoughts?<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Yes, that will make it accurate=
. I will update the diagram and publish a new version.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;I cannot find the text in t=
he draft suggesting that an SFF that does not support IOAM may forward the =
packet with the NSH Next Protocol field equal to IOAM protocol
 identifier. Could you help me find it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Can you suggest text to help wi=
th this ? This would be a generic problem for NSH implementation when a nex=
t protocol is set to a value it does not understand.
 What should is recommended action in this situation?<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; For example, if the Loopba=
ck IOAM flag is set, the node is required to send a copy of the packet back=
 to the IOAM encapsulating node. It is not clear to me
 how an SFF learns the identity of the IOAM encapsulating node and how it e=
ncapsulates the loopbacked packet. Can you help me find how it is supposed =
to work in the NSH?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.c=
om/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2F=
datatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*23section-4.=
2&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c3240233=
4fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C63780015463112=
0774*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik=
1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DzcOpC0Gzzi8xzhttBqWaeaU3pMd0KDo*2FZ=
YdGsEPG0uE*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY=
!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_cH_6kAg=
$" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-=
ioam-flags#section-4.2</a>:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>=C2=A0 A Loopback flag that is set indicates to the transit nodes processi=
ng</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 this option th=
at they are to create a copy of the received packet and</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 send the copy =
back to the source of the packet. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u=
></span></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given this is explained in the =
flag handling, do you see a need to define it again in NSH? IMHO the explan=
ation of flag handling is quite generic for any packet
 based transport.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please share your thoughts and =
text suggestions to improve the draft for flag handling if it requires clar=
ification.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 6:48 AM =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have one more question. As th=
e draft now mentions the option of using IOAM Direct Export to collect the =
IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecting that in the
 figure on p.2. I think that the caption &quot;IOAM Option and Data Space&q=
uot; might be reworded=C2=A0to &quot;IOAM Option and Optional Data Space&qu=
ot;.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What are your thoughts?<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 7:29 AM =
Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim, Greg,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for the follow up.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1) On O-bit: I am a bit confuse=
d about the O-bit feedback. Are you suggesting that it should not be a cons=
ideration for IOAM as it is handled as a next protocol
 and not as NSH context headers?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What should a SFC element handl=
e a packet containing IOAM as next header and does not implement IOAM and h=
ence does not understand IOAM? I think O-bit helps in
 such situations to help such elements decide to drop or forward without pr=
ocessing the IOAM header.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Let me know if that is not the =
case and if simply not considering O-bit in the context of IOAM is what you=
 would recommend.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">2)
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!eu0=
5ObEvXtnVX2OXFzl0g16vk36xSqTyjMReG_i6BavtG_ru2AnjQSjXHiZ_Ve3sBjJRuHMBUg*24&=
amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334f=
c08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C6378001546312770=
05*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h=
aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DDvpZHlkn0PNCP5*2BzFQzGayutZGPUMxJXtPl=
l6nR8Ay8*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw4=
5to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_4=
eduZWg$" target=3D"_blank">
Active or Loopback flags</a>=C2=A0- there is nothing specific=C2=A0for NSH =
on how the flags are to be handled.=C2=A0 The IOAM specific fields are to b=
e handled as recommended by the respective IOAM drafts. Do you see any spec=
ific NSH considerations to be documented for IOAM
 fields?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:29 PM =
James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha &amp; Greg,<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you for the update.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I still believe however that mo=
re work is necessary to reconcile how SFC OAM is supposed to work. RFC 8300=
 says:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit:=C2=A0 Setting=
 this bit indicates an OAM packet (see [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v=
3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furld=
efense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc62=
91__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy=
5gHA8obfbMABJs06rKUNw*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.=
com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7=
C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ=
QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3D4wRcNgj93har=
9TlylAfX*2BtbW24VCqfneSZd0rD9CRzs*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AV=
bjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8b5uw-Yg$" title=3D"&quot;Guidelines for the Use of =
the &quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC6291</a>]).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Th=
e actual format and processing of SFC OAM packets is outside the</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sc=
ope of this specification (for example, see [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2=
Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2F=
rfc8300*ref-SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywf=
zpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJsisioAug*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7C=
james.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbG=
Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C=
3000&amp;sdata=3DA6fkAO8CwRJeW5tLLEpU0GhZrqsBOm7nUiE1QiMxwVQ*3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFW=
gJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_b7k_TUA$" target=3D"_bla=
nk">SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK</a>]</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 fo=
r one approach).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Th=
e O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 no=
n-OAM packets.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If we look at RFC6291 it simply=
 describes what OAM is supposed to mean and this is independent from SFC. T=
he SFC-OAM-Framework (now RFC 8924) in section 6.3 says:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Next Protocol fi=
eld in the NSH header may be used to indicate what OAM function is intended=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 or what toolset is u=
sed.=C2=A0 Any other overlay encapsulations used at the service layer must =
have
 a </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0similar way to =
indicate the intended OAM function.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So my reading of this is that i=
f you take 8300 together with the framework then 1. The O-bit MUST be set f=
or OAM packets, and 2. The Next Protocol field may or
 may not be used to indicate which OAM function is to be applied. From this=
 I can determine that iOAM has taken the approach of using the next protoco=
l field to indicate how to process the OAM packet and does NOT use the NSH =
context headers in any way shape
 or form. This seems consistent with the current definitions of the O-bit f=
rom RFC 8300 and processing guidelines from RFC 8924.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">However, your document says:<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2=
Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2F=
draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*section-4.1__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCb=
Cwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJtXMLMQUw*24&amp;data=3D0=
4*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83c=
f*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown=
*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6=
Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3Dw3hANsqqvVWz5oeH*2BLfPwS*2Fxwh2hNERJwCw5zwdrAMA*3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!=
f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW9Fp7_C8w$=
" target=3D"_blank">4.1</a>.=C2=A0
 IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC8300] defines an=
 &quot;O bit&quot; for OAM packets.=C2=A0 Per [<a href=3D"https://urldefens=
e.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F=
*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*=
2Frfc8300__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10=
KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJuMIrqXAQ*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fut=
urewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3Da*2BV=
evL6noSzqRzdWg6dscjiqevlLbxcgEdTEmfJAY7U*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoO=
gCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW92fQLzlQ$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Hea=
der (NSH)&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8300</a>]
 the O</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 bit must be set for =
OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 Packe=
ts with IOAM data included MUST follow this</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition, i.e. the=
 O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 traffic which also c=
arries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM packets which ca=
rry only IOAM data without any regular data</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 payload.</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This text basically says that i=
f the packet is customer traffic and happens to carry iOAM data then it is =
NOT an OAM packet.=C2=A0 What am I missing, customer traffic
 or not, both carry iOAM data so how are they different within an SFC domai=
n?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In=
 addition to the above I will note that there is still a conflict with Greg=
=E2=80=99s draft namely this text from section 4:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 O bit set an=
d the &quot;Next Protocol&quot; value does not match the value</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ac=
tive SFC OAM (TBA1), defined in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam*section-10.1__=
*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5g=
HA8obfbMABJv1ohYIeg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.co=
m*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1=
*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI=
joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DHTLx6e4sQCvsjX=
ZKxG1GA8XPvdswsQKEMIEABitkprw*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjde=
h2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-EwTZ2zw$" target=3D"_blank">
Section 10.1</a>:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - An SFC NSH Context Header(s) contain an OAM processing</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 instructions or data.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - The &quot;Next Protocol&quot; field determines the type o=
f the payload.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The above text suggests to me t=
hat if the O-bit is set and the next protocol is not active SFC OAM then it=
 is *<b>required</b>* that OAM data will be in the NSH
 context headers (which is not the case for iOAM) and the next protocol wil=
l indicate what follows the NSH header. While iOAM does follow the NSH head=
er as indicated by the next protocol there is still an expectation that OAM=
 is also carried in the NSH context
 headers. This seems to be in conflict with RFC 8300 AND RFC 8924. <u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This of course is just my readi=
ng of the text and I would like to hear yours and other folks thoughts.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thought=
spot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 31, 2022 11:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.=
com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefens=
e.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-io=
am-nsh*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10=
KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJu3416GCQ*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fut=
urewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DNKz8*=
2Fm*2Fh7WXjK0OP8NF4j5cQ*2FYgSrSMULRmDt*2FkX*2B10*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5=
ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8EWrHtpA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sorry for the late action on th=
is.
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.=
org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.gu=
ichard*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW=
IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sda=
ta*3Dpl23JSzuzl5p2F8vooPyxVcUnWRdcWx*2F26MRFfJAIh4*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fV=
r4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJvEbkwM5w*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.gui=
chard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI=
joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sd=
ata=3DdpoyXLu*2F9fGVSgLtewdI7wNfSPdrkhs7FtBdD3Aq7*2B0*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__=
;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-Hq=
DItW9PuM1neA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07</a> has be=
en now posted with the edits per this discussion.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After Greg&#39;s review please =
let us know if the changes are good to progress the draft to the next step.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 7:31 PM=
 Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">thank you for the detailed resp=
onse to my comments. Please feel free to share any updates you&#39;re consi=
dering for the next version. I&#39;ll be glad to work together
 on these.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have several follow-up notes =
in-lined below under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM=
 Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your=
 comments inline @Shwetha:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear Authors and All,<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;ve read the current versi=
on of the draft and have some comments I&#39;d like to share with you. I mu=
ch appreciate your thoughts on where this work should go considering
 developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my notes and questions below:<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">It is stated in the Abstract that:<u></u><u></u></span=
></li></ul>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations=
, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in the packet while the =
packet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two points in the network.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But that is the case only for t=
he pre-allocated and incremental trace option=C2=A0types. The
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePah=
NAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fu=
turewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3Di7sTr0=
MtC5qfzx3twOKSpbW8LkQJzsAJBxF*2FZPLUwKc*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4=
clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt0mRguJg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guich=
ard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c=
753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo=
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdat=
a=3DyVGpJY1y6dud5c44HOsptPjqEuXdNUa1DMzjAelvU5c*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-H=
qDItW-BwxdRIg$" target=3D"_blank">
Direct Export option</a> does not write telemetry=C2=A0data into the data p=
acket itself but export telemetry information in a specially constructed pa=
cket.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">And as we are talking about dif=
ferent IOAM trace options, the question=C2=A0of the scope of this document =
seems appropriate. There is
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fmailarchive.ietf.org*2Farch*2Fmsg*2Fippm*2FA0OcGQ5LlNj=
njfRVp_iUTMYMrcs*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfP=
NhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHOndSFRg*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guicha=
rd*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi=
MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3=
DcHtvsgDl*2FuzSv70oS9LN5l2o5nEIwiKHDZ1sfiFJCrE*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpG=
jZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJu2SsX7cg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjam=
es.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C300=
0&amp;sdata=3DY*2BwywuTSj4SpugrjmDTquAY0MZWKoT43CMjsyha*2FnOc*3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8A=
Vbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FRADPxg$" target=3D"_blank">
a WGLC on two IOAM documents</a> active through September 15th at the IPPM =
WG. I believe that it would be beneficial if we had a single document that =
describes the applicability of IOAM in all its functionality defined by doc=
uments in IPPM WG. Of course, that
 cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since the IPPM=
 WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a great time =
to address the applicability of
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePah=
NAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fu=
turewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3Di7sTr0=
MtC5qfzx3twOKSpbW8LkQJzsAJBxF*2FZPLUwKc*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4=
clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt0mRguJg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guich=
ard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c=
753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo=
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdat=
a=3DyVGpJY1y6dud5c44HOsptPjqEuXdNUa1DMzjAelvU5c*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-H=
qDItW-BwxdRIg$" target=3D"_blank">
the Direct Export trace type</a> and Loopback and Active flags defined in=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2F=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.=
com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioa=
m-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNA=
YMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHO7lReVw*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futu=
rewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM=
DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3D1kqtcu3x=
jl1C7ytQ*2BoaKdiQN96rQt94e1S2ElC0nD3M*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4cl=
Cr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt8NqRRKg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichar=
d*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM=
C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=
=3DzzcnXlewWKrtEDv4BmsNNk4pvDlMKNKvPzBZ2dZJm5k*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-Hq=
DItW-gOuTqwg$" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags</a>.
 It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the a=
pplicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha&gt; This is a fair point. We will revise the=C2=A0 d=
raft with text in the abstract and Section 3 I<span style=3D"color:black;ba=
ckground:rgb(255,253,245)">OAM-Type</span>=C2=A0to
 be updated to include the usage of trace and DEX options.=C2=A0 The encaps=
ulation of IOAM options within NSH itself in its current form already suppo=
rts all the IOAM Option Type defined both from draft-<span style=3D"color:b=
lack;background:rgb(255,253,245)">ietf-ippm-ioam-data
 and=C2=A0</span>draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export along with the flags su=
pported within the options. Hence the IOAM-data-field definitions in the dr=
aft will remain unchanged.=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; I agree that the de=
finitions of the IOAM data-fields are invariant in various data plane encap=
sulations. You likely follow the discussion of the IAOM Direct
 Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think that for SFC NSH, IOAM =
Direct Export could be as simple as &quot;use the local policy&quot;. The a=
pplicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems to require detailed exp=
lanation by SFP actors.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsu=
lated=C2=A0packet is defined in Section 3:<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0IOAM-Data-Fields a=
re carried in NSH<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0using a next proto=
col header which follows the NSH MD context<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0headers.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;ve checked RFC 8300 but c=
ouldn&#39;t find it defines the Next Protocol header. Also, it appears that=
 NSH Context headers=C2=A0are optional. Hence my question. Is the
 presence of an NSH Context header required when using IOAM? Could you clar=
ify which mechanism is used to identify the payload of an SFC NSH-encapsula=
ted packet as IOAM?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha&gt; We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol heade=
r but using IOAM as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and
 requested in IANA section. Following is the proposed text to align with th=
e RFC 8300 reference to context headers following base header and service p=
ath header:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">&quot;The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].=C2=A0 IOAM-Data-Field=
s are carried in NSH=C2=A0using a next protocol to identify IOAM data field=
s that
 follows NSH context headers.&quot;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; I think that RFC 83=
00 views data following Context Headers as NSH payload, not being &quot;in =
NSH&quot;.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined =
in Section 3 correctly, the header&#39;s length is limited by 1020 octets, =
while the effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. =
Is that correct? What is the recommended
 technique of collecting IOAM data that exceeds that limit?<u></u><u></u></=
span></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; IOAM options inherently support specifying the =
size limits at the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing
 the solution the data types included and number of nodes expected to be ad=
ding the data should be selected. This is covered in deployment considerati=
ons=C2=A0draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">In Section 4.1, I&#39;ve found the text reflecting the=
 history of the discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH enc=
apsulation. As the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an=
 Appendix.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; Agreed, revised draft will have this section mo=
ved to Appendix.=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you.=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed i=
n Section 4.2 inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NS=
H encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when user da=
ta follows it, the O-bit must not
 be set as. If there&#39;s no user data after the IOAM header, then the O-b=
it must be set. But from the perspective of NSH encapsulation, it includes =
specially constructed data added for the sole purpose of collecting OAM/tel=
emetry information. Then, why, in one
 case, the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the NSH=
-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; The reason for not setting the O-bit for packet=
s that contains actual user data is because RFC 8300 has &quot;<span style=
=3D"color:black">
 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support</span></sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets w=
ith O bit set&quot;. It will be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit s=
et that carry user data as IOAM can be inserted insitu.</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH f=
ollowing the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.=C2=A0 </span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0GIM&gt;&gt; This is an in=
teresting situation. I agree that there could be an SFC element not support=
ing &quot;SFC OAM procedures&quot; (not clear what these are). By the same
 token, would such SFC element support IOAM, be capable of processing IOAM =
without adverse impact to user data? I am not certain and it seems that it =
might be better to recommend that NSH packets with IOAM be dropped by an SF=
P element if it does not support
 &quot;SFC OAM&quot;. What are your thoughts?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thanks,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I much appreciate your consider=
ation of my comments and questions and looking forward to your feedback.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM=
 James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email starts a 2 week Work=
ing Group Last Call for draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please read this document if yo=
u haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent version and send your comments to th=
e SFC WG list no later than September 1<sup>st</sup> 2021.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">I=
f you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on =
the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for
 this point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">=
=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">L=
astly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate whet=
her you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim &amp; Joel<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1] <a href=3D"https://urldefens=
e.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F=
*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook=
.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatra=
cker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8=
-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHdTiRE6A*24*26da=
ta*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e=
53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CU=
nknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC=
JXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3D9uDdhw0ViwBtWvn52V8UZ2G77lRnSye2Ols5z3U8QwQ*3=
D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7=
Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJv33kGkLw*24&a=
mp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc=
08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C63780015463127700=
5*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha=
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DS6sx7MrrVkzKepVgj45q*2F2KPZzBMyOFnol*2=
BMfgRQ730*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKio=
qKioqKiolJSolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5Z=
lZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FOmuSHA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a></span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:131.25pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

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</pre></div>

</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>

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Subject: Re: [ippm] Adoption call for Encrypted PDMv2
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Hello IPPM,

Thanks to everyone who replied to this adoption call. This received good =
support, so we will be adopting this as a working group item.

Authors, please submit draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00 and the chairs =
will approve it.

Best,
Tommy

> On Mar 29, 2022, at 9:19 AM, Tommy Pauly =
<tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hello IPPM,
>=20
> This email starts an adoption call in the IPPM working group for =
draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-02, which updates PDM (RFC 8250) to =
add encryption to the data. This document was discussed at our meeting =
at IETF 113, and has had several side meetings.
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/ =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/>
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2 =
<https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2>
>=20
> Please reply to this email by April 12, 2022, to indicate if you =
support adopting this document.
>=20
> Best,
> Tommy & Marcus
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


--Apple-Mail=_D7060BDA-6F13-495E-B3DA-28021BE9D680
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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dus-ascii"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D"">Hello=
 IPPM,<div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thanks to =
everyone who replied to this adoption call. This received good support, =
so we will be adopting this as a working group item.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Authors, please =
submit&nbsp;draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00 and the chairs will =
approve it.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Best,</div><div class=3D"">Tommy<br class=3D""><div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D"">On Mar =
29, 2022, at 9:19 AM, Tommy Pauly &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org" =
class=3D"">tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br =
class=3D"Apple-interchange-newline"><div class=3D""><meta =
http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii" =
class=3D""><div style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; -webkit-nbsp-mode: =
space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div class=3D"">Hello =
IPPM,</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">This =
email starts an adoption call in the IPPM working group =
for&nbsp;draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-02, which updates PDM (RFC =
8250) to add encryption to the data. This document was discussed at our =
meeting at IETF 113, and has had several side meetings.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2=
/" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-pd=
mv2/</a><div class=3D""><a =
href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypted-=
pdmv2" =
class=3D"">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-elkins-ippm-encrypt=
ed-pdmv2</a></div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Please reply to this email <b class=3D"">by April 12, =
2022</b>,&nbsp;to indicate if you support adopting this =
document.</div><div class=3D""><br class=3D""></div><div =
class=3D"">Best,</div><div class=3D"">Tommy &amp; =
Marcus</div></div>_______________________________________________<br =
class=3D"">ippm mailing list<br class=3D""><a =
href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" class=3D"">ippm@ietf.org</a><br =
class=3D"">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm<br =
class=3D""></div></blockquote></div><br class=3D""></div></body></html>=

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Subject: [ippm] Publication has been requested for draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-07
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Marcus Ihlar has requested publication of draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options-07 as Proposed Standard on behalf of the IPPM working group.

Please verify the document's state at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-ipv6-options/



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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 09:25:02 -0700
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hi Tommy, Marcus, et al.,
I support the IPPM WG adoption of:

   - draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis (as co-author)
   - draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis (as an enthusiastic supporter of the
   Alternate Marking method)

Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 5:03 PM Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D
40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hello IPPM,
>
> This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis
> and draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=E2=80=99s emails below f=
or details
> =E2=80=94 the main idea here is that we=E2=80=99re moving two IPPM RFCs f=
rom Experimental
> to Proposed Standard.
>
> The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG
> processing these documents. If we adopt, we=E2=80=99d plan to very shortl=
y
> thereafter do a working group last call.
>
> Please reply to this email by *Thursday, April 21* and indicate if you
> support adopting this document.
>
> Best,
> Tommy & Marcus
>
> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello IPPM,
>
> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from
> Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update
> would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document=
.
>
> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially
> adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The
> changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven
> some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's
> important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we
> might as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there's no
> confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own
> documents.
>
> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing th=
e
> work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up
> the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed
> objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns th=
at
> people have.
>
> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which
> are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>
> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between
> draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of
> diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8321bis-02.txt
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8889bis-02.txt
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>
> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are
> good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we cou=
ld
> be done before IETF 114.
>
> Your friendly Area Director,
> Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>

--0000000000006d16a405dc778152
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Tommy, Marcus, et al.=
,<div>I support the IPPM WG adoption of:</div><div><ul><li>draft-fioccola-r=
fc8321bis (as co-author)<br></li><li>draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis (as an enthu=
siastic supporter of the Alternate Marking method)<br></li></ul><div>Regard=
s,</div></div><div>Greg</div></div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 5:03 PM Tom=
my Pauly &lt;tpauly=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40apple=
.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quot=
e" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204)=
;padding-left:1ex"><div style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">Hello IPPM,<di=
v><br></div><div>This email starts an adoption call for=C2=A0draft-fioccola=
-rfc8321bis and=C2=A0draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=E2=80=99s=
 emails below for details =E2=80=94 the main idea here is that we=E2=80=99r=
e moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.</div><div><b=
r></div><div>The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in =
the WG processing these documents. If we adopt, we=E2=80=99d plan to very s=
hortly thereafter do a working group last call.</div><div><br></div><div>Pl=
ease reply to this email by <b>Thursday, April 21</b>=C2=A0and indicate if =
you support adopting this document.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><di=
v>Tommy &amp; Marcus<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Apr 7, 2=
022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com"=
 target=3D"_blank">martin.h.duke@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><di=
v dir=3D"ltr">Hello IPPM,<div><br></div><div>You=C2=A0may recall that there=
 was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed S=
tandard. There was a feeling that the update would be trivial and we could =
therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39=
;ve done 3 rounds of AD review and I&#39;ve seen the need to substantially =
adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The cha=
nges are not revolutionary, but I&#39;m a non-practitioner and have driven =
some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it&#39;s imp=
ortant to get good IPPM review; if we&#39;re going to do that anyway, we mi=
ght as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there&#39;s no=
 confusion as to why IPPM didn&#39;t formally review an update to its own d=
ocuments.</div><div><br></div><div>So, as first step, I invite the working =
group=C2=A0to adopt these two drafts:</div><div><a href=3D"https://datatrac=
ker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/" target=3D"_blank">https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/</a><br></div><div><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/" target=3D"=
_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/</a><br>=
</div><div>Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of=
 doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to =
follow up the adoption call with an immediate=C2=A0WGLC to shake out any de=
tailed objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concer=
ns that people have.</div><div><br></div><div>I invite you to consult the c=
hangelogs on both of these documents, which are not long, to get a sense of=
 what we&#39;ve done.</div><div><br></div><div>For those of you who like di=
ffs, there was a big reorganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard t=
o follow in a diff. So here is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 t=
ransition:</div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321=
.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt" target=3D"_blank">https:/=
/www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321b=
is-02.txt</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3D=
draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.tx=
t" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt</a><br></div><di=
v><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt=
&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www=
.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-0=
2.txt</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraf=
t-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889=
bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt</a><br></div><div><b=
r></div><div>I believe it&#39;s up to the chairs to start the adoption call=
. If people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like t=
o think we could be done before IETF 114.</div><div><br></div><div>Your fri=
endly Area Director,</div><div>Martin</div><div><br></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>ippm mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a><br><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" target=3D"_blank">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></di=
v></div>_______________________________________________<br>
ippm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000006d16a405dc778152--


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From: "Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)" <pcamaril@cisco.com>
To: "Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de" <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>, "ahabdels=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" <ahabdels=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
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X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Apr 2022 17:13:06 -0000

Hi Ruediger,

Many thanks for your email. Glad you appreciate the PT proposal for SRv6 ne=
tworks.
We have experimental implementation at linerate in Broadcom Jericho 2, Cisc=
o Silicon One, Marvell Prestera, and Cisco ASR9k (as well of opensource sof=
tware). It would be great to hear from other vendors whether they can proce=
ss this at linerate as well.

With regards to the SR-MPLS draft, we are finalizing the text and we will p=
ost it soon for feedback.
With regards to the time-synchronization considerations, many thanks on you=
r feedback. We agree with you, and we'll add more considerations in the nex=
t revision.

Thanks,
Pablo.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de <Ruediger.Geib@telekom.de>=20
Sent: viernes, 1 de abril de 2022 11:12
To: ahabdels=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org
Cc: spring@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing@ietf=
.org
Subject: [ippm] FW: New Version Notification for draft-filsfils-spring-path=
-tracing-00.txt

Hi Ahmed,

Thanks for the draft. I appreciate the small and well specified format of t=
he measurement and hope that endpoints and transit routers supporting Path =
Tracing in SRv6 networks are able to fill in the specified fields at linera=
te during forwarding. I'd also appreciate an SR-MPLS version of the draft.

I'd suggest to add more text related to the following statement:

         Note: all routers across the network MUST have time-
         synchronization.  The mechanism used for time synchronization
         is out of the scope of this draft.

An operator should be able to qualify an applicable time-synchronisation by=
 guidance of the draft. If Truncated Timestamp configuration depends on the=
 precision of time synchronization, guidance for interested operators shoul=
d be part of the draft. The choice of timestamp resolution may further depe=
nd on locally configured buffers. A Truncated Timestamp working well in the=
 absence of congestion, but creating erroneous information with the onset o=
f congestion might not be desired. Maybe a discussion on wrapping / overflo=
w may help too. Finally, the precision of the synchronization needs to be m=
onitored. That may be done out of band, but  centralized processing should =
be aware of timestamps created by a router with (temporarily) bad synch. A =
temporal change in precision of or a  loss of synch are common networking s=
ynch-events.

While the mechanism used for time synchronization doesn't need to be define=
d in the draft, a reference to some applicable synchronization mechanisms w=
ould be helpful. The list doesn't have to be complete, please add some comm=
odity examples.

Editorial nit: To me, a binding "Requirement" shouldn't be a "Note".

Regards,

Ruediger


On Wed, Mar 9, 2022 at 4:14 PM Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) <ahabdels=3D40ci=
sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:
>
> Dear SPRING WG,  IPPM WG,
>
> We have submitted a new I-D for Path Tracing in SRv6 networks (https://da=
tatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing) to SPRING W=
G.
> We are looking for your feedback and comments.
> Path Tracing provides a record of the packet path as a sequence of interf=
ace ids. In addition, it provides a record of end-to-end delay, per-hop del=
ay, and load on each egress interface along the packet delivery path to fac=
ilitate operation of SR networks.
>
>
>
> Path Tracing allows to trace 14 hops with only a 40-octet IPv6 Hop-by-Hop=
 extension header.
>
>
> We will present Path Tracing to the SPRING WG at next IETF
> (https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/113/materials/agenda-113-spring-
> 00.txt)
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ahmed
>
>
>
> From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> Date: Friday, 4 March 2022 at 16:48
> To: Ahmed Abdelsalam (ahabdels) <ahabdels@cisco.com>, cf(mailer list)=20
> <cf@cisco.com>, Mark Yufit <mark.yufit@broadcom.com>, Pablo Camarillo
> (pcamaril) <pcamaril@cisco.com>, Pablo Camarillo (pcamaril)=20
> <pcamaril@cisco.com>, Satoru Matsushima=20
> <satoru.matsushima@g.softbank.co.jp>, Thomas.Graf=20
> <Thomas.Graf@swisscom.com>, Yuanchao Su <yitai.syc@alibaba-inc.com>
> Subject: New Version Notification for=20
> draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
>
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Pablo Camarillo Garvia and posted=20
> to the IETF repository.
>
> Name:           draft-filsfils-spring-path-tracing
> Revision:       00
> Title:          Path Tracing in SRv6 networks
> Document date:  2022-03-04
> Group:          Individual Submission
> Pages:          15
> URL:            https://www.ietf.org/archive/id/draft-filsfils-spring-pat=
h-tracing-00.txt
> Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-filsfils-spring-pa=
th-tracing/
> Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-filsfils-spri=
ng-path-tracing
>
>
> Abstract:
>    Path Tracing provides a record of the packet path as a sequence of
>    interface ids.  In addition, it provides a record of end-to-end
>    delay, per-hop delay, and load on each egress interface along the
>    packet delivery path.
>
>    Path Tracing allows to trace 14 hops with only a 40-bytes IPv6 Hop-
>    by-Hop extension header.
>
>    Path Tracing supports fine grained timestamp.  It has been designed
>    for linerate hardware implementation in the base pipeline.
>
>
>
>
> The IETF Secretariat
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Performance Measurement WG of the IETF.

        Title           : IPv6 Performance and Diagnostic Metrics Version 2 (PDMv2) Destination Option
        Authors         : Nalini Elkins
                          Michael Ackermann
                          Ameya Deshpande
                          Tommaso Pecorella
                          Adnan Rashid
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2022-04-12

Abstract:
   RFC8250 describes an optional Destination Option (DO) header embedded
   in each packet to provide sequence numbers and timing information as
   a basis for measurements.  As this data is sent in clear- text, this
   may create an opportunity for malicious actors to get information for
   subsequent attacks.  This document defines PDMv2 which has a
   lightweight handshake (registration procedure) and encryption to
   secure this data.  Additional performance metrics which may be of use
   are also defined.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2/

There is also an htmlized version available at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-encrypted-pdmv2-00


Internet-Drafts are also available by rsync at rsync.ietf.org::internet-drafts



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Thread-Topic: [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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From: Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 15:35:41 +0530
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To: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Cc: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org>
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--00000000000069818a05dc9a7042
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
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Hi Med, Greg,

How about this text :

=E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be handled following the rules in and any updates
to [RFC8300] ."

Given that I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet  will update RF8300 and there could be
others in future?

Thanks,
Shwetha

On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:24 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Shwetha,
> I believe that the text you've quoted is helpful. I would suggest changin=
g
> references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet] throughout that
> paragraph.
>
> Regards,
> Greg
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>
>> Med,
>>
>> Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had before the latest
>> revision:
>>
>> 4.2 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/d=
raft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-06*section-4.2__;Iw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy=
74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpJPfzr=
vI$>.  IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit
>>
>>    [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300 <https://=
urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw=
45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2q=
UzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpEB5AbbE$>] the O
>>    bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
>>    packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
>>    definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
>>    traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
>>    OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
>>    payload.
>>
>>
>> This was removed as per the discussion in this thread. Please check
>> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/s=
rMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJj=
x35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIp-CeLfeA$>
>>
>> It looks like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM
>> packet to include the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next
>> protocol header chain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to upda=
te
>> the RFC8300.
>> Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce the above text=
 ?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Shwetha
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 8:09 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Franck,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for the clarification even if I don=E2=80=99t think there is =
a
>>> confusion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please note that SFC OAM packet is defined as follows:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =3D=3D
>>>
>>>       Such a packet
>>>
>>>       is any NSH-encapsulated packet that exclusively includes OAM data=
.
>>>
>>>       An OAM data can be included in the Fixed-Length Context Header,
>>>
>>>       optional Context Headers, and/or the inner packet.
>>>
>>> =3D=3D
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Things are pretty clear (as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet) that the O
>>> bit must be unset when IOAM data is included + user data.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The concern I had is that you are pointing to RFC8300 for the IOAM next
>>> protocol, which makes both =E2=80=9Cnone=E2=80=9D (i.e., no payload) an=
d IOAM (as you
>>> request a new code) legitimate values.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Med
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Frank Brockners
>>> (fbrockne)
>>> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* mardi 12 avril 2022 13:55
>>> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>;
>>> Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <
>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard
>>> <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.co=
m>;
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
>>> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet=
f-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69=
CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Med,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry for arriving late to the party. Reading through your message
>>> below, there seems to be a confusion about the scope and concept of
>>> different OAM mechanisms.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> IOAM is scoped and designed to be protocol agnostic. IOAM data can be
>>> encapsulated into various protocols =E2=80=93 and NSH is one example =
=E2=80=93 but there is
>>> no semantic link between IOAM and the protocol used to encapsulate IOAM
>>> data.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Protocols can have their protocol specific OAM methods and solutions,
>>> like SFC OAM. Those protocol specific solutions (like SFC OAM as an
>>> example) are orthogonal to IOAM from a concept and scope perspective.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From an SFC OAM perspective, your draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet-00 clearly
>>> and rightly states that =E2=80=9CO bit: Setting this bit indicates an S=
FC OAM
>>> packet.=E2=80=9D The O bit is about SFC OAM, and as such is orthogonal =
to =E2=80=9Canything
>>> IOAM=E2=80=9D. In earlier versions of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh we had te=
xt which
>>> stated that the O bit remains unchanged whether IOAM is present or not.=
 To
>>> avoid any confusion, in -08 we removed this statement =E2=80=93 just to=
 make it
>>> crystal clear that there is no link between =E2=80=9CIOAM=E2=80=9D and =
=E2=80=9CSFC OAM=E2=80=9D.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition, I don=E2=80=99t think that draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh would b=
e the
>>> appropriate place to discuss and restrict deployment options. E.g., I=
=E2=80=99m not
>>> sure why we=E2=80=99d want to restrict a deployment to using a single I=
OAM header
>>> only. E.g., one could think of using different headers for different
>>> namespaces or groups of namespaces for operational reasons. IMHO, such =
a
>>> discussion =E2=80=93 if we really need it - would belong into
>>> draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment, rather than into a draft that defines =
the
>>> encap of IOAM into NSH.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hope this clarifies things =E2=80=93 and we can finish up
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh :-).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cc=E2=80=99ing the ippm working group as an FYI.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks & Cheers, Frank
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, 4 April 2022 07:40
>>> *To:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky =
<
>>> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <
>>> fbrockne@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org; James Guichard <
>>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com=
>;
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] WGLC for
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet=
f-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69=
CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Shwetha, all,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I agree with Greg that a statement is needed to be added to
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> For example, the current text says the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       Next Protocol:  8-bit unsigned integer that determines the type o=
f
>>>
>>>          header following IOAM.  The semantics of this field are
>>>
>>>          identical to the Next Protocol field in [RFC8300
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8=
300__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSO=
yreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnDoYxXlRw$>
>>> ].
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> which means that =E2=80=9CNone=E2=80=9D is authorized. The O-bit must b=
e set for such
>>> packets, while it should be unset for other values indicating user payl=
oad
>>> as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. Absent a pointer to the OAM packet, a=
n
>>> implementer will have to guess the behavior to follow.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> BTW, the text quoted above when combined with:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    IANA is requested to allocate protocol numbers for the following "NS=
H
>>>
>>>    Next Protocol" related to IOAM:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> =E2=80=A6means that IOAM data can be encapsulated in IOAM data. I don=
=E2=80=99t think
>>> you want such a behavior. No?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> One last comment: please update the security considerations with
>>> NSH-specific considerations. An approach is to simply refer to Section =
5 of
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Med
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *De :* sfc <sfc-bounces@ietf.org> *De la part de* Shwetha Bhandari
>>> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* lundi 4 avril 2022 02:41
>>> *=C3=80 :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc :* sfc-chairs@ietf.org; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <
>>> fbrockne@cisco.com>; sfc@ietf.org; James Guichard <
>>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com=
>;
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
>>> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-iet=
f-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69=
CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the feedback. From the discussion and Jim's feedback
>>>
>>>  "My only point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be
>>> obsolete as you use the next protocol field rather than the context
>>> headers. It seems to me that the definition of the O-bit should be that=
 if
>>> set then the context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions."
>>>
>>> Which makes sense. The O-bit does not influence IOAM handling as it is
>>> carried as a next protocol.
>>>
>>> Hence the consideration section on O-bit is removed in the new revision=
.
>>> What do you think?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks
>>>
>>> Shwetha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Apr 4, 2022, 1:41 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Shwetha,
>>>
>>> thank you for your kind consideration of my comments and for
>>> thoroughly addressing those in the new version. I've noticed that you'v=
e
>>> decided to remove the discussion of the O bit in the NSH from the draft
>>> altogether. I think that it might be helpful to a reader if the documen=
t
>>> includes a short clarification and the reference to
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sfc-oam-=
packet-00.html__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr9eVEi_=
p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVditWyZ_8$> like
>>> the following:
>>>
>>> For the IOAM functionality is SFC NSH described in this document the O
>>> bit
>>>
>>> in NSH MUST be set clear according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet].
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:06 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
>>> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jim, Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We have addressed the additional comments received in this discussion.
>>> Can you please take a look :
>>>
>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-i=
etf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsG=
Ixr9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVd4KRpUCA$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Shwetha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:27 PM James Guichard <
>>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Shwetha,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> My only point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be
>>> obsolete as you use the next protocol field rather than the context
>>> headers. It seems to me that the definition of the O-bit should be that=
 if
>>> set then the context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions.
>>> Currently that is not what 8300 says. As I said in my previous emails I
>>> would really like to hear the WGs opinion on what to do with the O-bit =
and
>>> we certainly need to reconcile the various documents to be following th=
e
>>> same standard.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:57 AM
>>> *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>;
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf=
-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AV=
bjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_8pjQ1iQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On the O bit handling, are you suggesting that the O-bit for IOAM, that
>>> is carried as a next protocol following NSH header, is not applicable?
>>> Would removing the section on O-bit considerations resolve your concern=
?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >I have one more question. As the draft now mentions the option of usin=
g
>>> IOAM Direct Export to collect the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflec=
ting
>>> that in the figure on p.2. I think that the caption "IOAM Option and Da=
ta
>>> Space" might be reworded to "IOAM Option and Optional Data Space".
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts?
>>>
>>> Yes, that will make it accurate. I will update the diagram and publish =
a
>>> new version.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> >I cannot find the text in the draft suggesting that an SFF that does
>>> not support IOAM may forward the packet with the NSH Next Protocol fiel=
d
>>> equal to IOAM protocol identifier. Could you help me find it?
>>>
>>> Can you suggest text to help with this ? This would be a generic proble=
m
>>> for NSH implementation when a next protocol is set to a value it does n=
ot
>>> understand. What should is recommended action in this situation?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> > For example, if the Loopback IOAM flag is set, the node is required t=
o
>>> send a copy of the packet back to the IOAM encapsulating node. It is no=
t
>>> clear to me how an SFF learns the identity of the IOAM encapsulating no=
de
>>> and how it encapsulates the loopbacked packet. Can you help me find how=
 it
>>> is supposed to work in the NSH?
>>>
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags#sectio=
n-4.2
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-ipp=
m-ioam-flags*23section-4.2&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.co=
m*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1=
*7C0*7C637800154631120774*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI=
joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DzcOpC0Gzzi8xzhttBq=
WaeaU3pMd0KDo*2FZYdGsEPG0uE*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-H=
qDItW_cH_6kAg$>
>>> :
>>>
>>>   A Loopback flag that is set indicates to the transit nodes processing
>>>
>>>    this option that they are to create a copy of the received packet an=
d
>>>
>>>    send the copy back to the source of the packet.
>>>
>>> Given this is explained in the flag handling, do you see a need to
>>> define it again in NSH? IMHO the explanation of flag handling is quite
>>> generic for any packet based transport.
>>>
>>> Please share your thoughts and text suggestions to improve the draft fo=
r
>>> flag handling if it requires clarification.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Shwetha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 6:48 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Shwetha,
>>>
>>> I have one more question. As the draft now mentions the option of using
>>> IOAM Direct Export to collect the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflec=
ting
>>> that in the figure on p.2. I think that the caption "IOAM Option and Da=
ta
>>> Space" might be reworded to "IOAM Option and Optional Data Space".
>>>
>>> What are your thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 7:29 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
>>> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Jim, Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for the follow up.
>>>
>>> 1) On O-bit: I am a bit confused about the O-bit feedback. Are you
>>> suggesting that it should not be a consideration for IOAM as it is hand=
led
>>> as a next protocol and not as NSH context headers?
>>>
>>> What should a SFC element handle a packet containing IOAM as next heade=
r
>>> and does not implement IOAM and hence does not understand IOAM? I think
>>> O-bit helps in such situations to help such elements decide to drop or
>>> forward without processing the IOAM header.
>>>
>>> Let me know if that is not the case and if simply not considering O-bit
>>> in the context of IOAM is what you would recommend.
>>>
>>> 2) Active or Loopback flags
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.=
ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!eu05ObEvX=
tnVX2OXFzl0g16vk36xSqTyjMReG_i6BavtG_ru2AnjQSjXHiZ_Ve3sBjJRuHMBUg*24&data=
=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebd=
c83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnk=
nown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJX=
VCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DDvpZHlkn0PNCP5*2BzFQzGayutZGPUMxJXtPll6nR8Ay8*3D&=
reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VA=
H1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_4eduZWg$> -
>>> there is nothing specific for NSH on how the flags are to be handled.  =
The
>>> IOAM specific fields are to be handled as recommended by the respective
>>> IOAM drafts. Do you see any specific NSH considerations to be documente=
d
>>> for IOAM fields?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Shwetha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:29 PM James Guichard <
>>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Shwetha & Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thank you for the update.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I still believe however that more work is necessary to reconcile how SF=
C
>>> OAM is supposed to work. RFC 8300 says:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    O bit:  Setting this bit indicates an OAM packet (see [RFC6291
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.=
ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc6291__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywf=
zpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJs06rKUNw*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjame=
s.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a=
3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3=
d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000=
&sdata=3D4wRcNgj93har9TlylAfX*2BtbW24VCqfneSZd0rD9CRzs*3D&reserved=3D0__;JS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH=
93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8b5uw-Yg$>
>>> ]).
>>>
>>>       The actual format and processing of SFC OAM packets is outside th=
e
>>>
>>>       scope of this specification (for example, see [SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.=
ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8300*ref-SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!=
bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJsisioAug*=
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08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C63780015463127700=
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>>> ]
>>>
>>>       for one approach).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>       The O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for
>>>
>>>       non-OAM packets.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If we look at RFC6291 it simply describes what OAM is supposed to mean
>>> and this is independent from SFC. The SFC-OAM-Framework (now RFC 8924) =
in
>>> section 6.3 says:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    The Next Protocol field in the NSH header may be used to indicate
>>> what OAM function is intended
>>>
>>>    or what toolset is used.  Any other overlay encapsulations used at
>>> the service layer must have a
>>>
>>>    similar way to indicate the intended OAM function.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> So my reading of this is that if you take 8300 together with the
>>> framework then 1. The O-bit MUST be set for OAM packets, and 2. The Nex=
t
>>> Protocol field may or may not be used to indicate which OAM function is=
 to
>>> be applied. From this I can determine that iOAM has taken the approach =
of
>>> using the next protocol field to indicate how to process the OAM packet=
 and
>>> does NOT use the NSH context headers in any way shape or form. This see=
ms
>>> consistent with the current definitions of the O-bit from RFC 8300 and
>>> processing guidelines from RFC 8924.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> However, your document says:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *4.1
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.=
ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*section-4.1__*3BIw!!MZ3F=
w45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJ=
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4631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJB=
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ERJwCw5zwdrAMA*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!M=
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ItW9Fp7_C8w$>.
>>> IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.=
ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc8300__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywf=
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93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW92fQLzlQ$>]
>>> the O
>>>
>>>    bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
>>>
>>>    packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
>>>
>>>    definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
>>>
>>>    traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
>>>
>>>    OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
>>>
>>>    payload.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This text basically says that if the packet is customer traffic and
>>> happens to carry iOAM data then it is NOT an OAM packet.  What am I
>>> missing, customer traffic or not, both carry iOAM data so how are they
>>> different within an SFC domain?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In addition to the above I will note that there is still a conflict wit=
h
>>> Greg=E2=80=99s draft namely this text from section 4:
>>>
>>>    *  O bit set and the "Next Protocol" value does not match the value
>>>
>>>       Active SFC OAM (TBA1), defined in Section 10.1
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.=
ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam*section-10.1__*3BIw!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obf=
bMABJv1ohYIeg*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82=
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W-EwTZ2zw$>
>>> :
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>          - An SFC NSH Context Header(s) contain an OAM processing
>>>
>>>          instructions or data.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>          - The "Next Protocol" field determines the type of the payload=
.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The above text suggests to me that if the O-bit is set and the next
>>> protocol is not active SFC OAM then it is **required** that OAM data
>>> will be in the NSH context headers (which is not the case for iOAM) and=
 the
>>> next protocol will indicate what follows the NSH header. While iOAM doe=
s
>>> follow the NSH header as indicated by the next protocol there is still =
an
>>> expectation that OAM is also carried in the NSH context headers. This s=
eems
>>> to be in conflict with RFC 8300 AND RFC 8924.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This of course is just my reading of the text and I would like to hear
>>> yours and other folks thoughts.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
>>> *Sent:* Monday, January 31, 2022 11:25 PM
>>> *To:* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> *Cc:* James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>;
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; sfc-chairs@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.=
ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltG=
MCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJu3416GCQ*24&data=3D04=
*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf=
*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*=
7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6M=
n0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DNKz8*2Fm*2Fh7WXjK0OP8NF4j5cQ*2FYgSrSMULRmDt*2FkX*2B10*=
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>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry for the late action on this.
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safeli=
nks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2F=
doc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard=
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4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJvEbkwM5w*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fu=
turewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
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ioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSg=
s9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW9PuM1neA$>
>>> has been now posted with the edits per this discussion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Jim,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> After Greg's review please let us know if the changes are good to
>>> progress the draft to the next step.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Shwetha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 7:31 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Shwetha,
>>>
>>> thank you for the detailed response to my comments. Please feel free to
>>> share any updates you're considering for the next version. I'll be glad=
 to
>>> work together on these.
>>>
>>> I have several follow-up notes in-lined below under the GIM>> tag.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM Shwetha Bhandari <
>>> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Hi Greg,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your comments
>>> inline @Shwetha:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear Authors and All,
>>>
>>> I've read the current version of the draft and have some comments I'd
>>> like to share with you. I much appreciate your thoughts on where this w=
ork
>>> should go considering developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my no=
tes
>>> and questions below:
>>>
>>>    - It is stated in the Abstract that:
>>>
>>>    In-situ Operations, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records
>>>    operational and telemetry information in the packet while the packet
>>>    traverses a path between two points in the network.
>>>
>>> But that is the case only for the pre-allocated and incremental trace
>>> option types. The Direct Export option
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safeli=
nks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F_=
_https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-exp=
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>>> does not write telemetry data into the data packet itself but export
>>> telemetry information in a specially constructed packet.
>>>
>>> And as we are talking about different IOAM trace options, the
>>> question of the scope of this document seems appropriate. There is a
>>> WGLC on two IOAM documents
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safeli=
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>>> active through September 15th at the IPPM WG. I believe that it would b=
e
>>> beneficial if we had a single document that describes the applicability=
 of
>>> IOAM in all its functionality defined by documents in IPPM WG. Of cours=
e,
>>> that cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since =
the
>>> IPPM WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a gre=
at
>>> time to address the applicability of the Direct Export trace type
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safeli=
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fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM=
DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DyVGpJY1y6d=
ud5c44HOsptPjqEuXdNUa1DMzjAelvU5c*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKio=
qKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SS=
gs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-BwxdRIg$>
>>> and Loopback and Active flags defined in draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safeli=
nks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F_=
_https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__=
*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBW=
M4C7Z0OJKHO7lReVw*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7C=
af9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1=
*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV=
2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3D1kqtcu3xjl1C7ytQ*2Bo=
aKdiQN96rQt94e1S2ElC0nD3M*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDy=
Jy5gHA8obfbMABJt8NqRRKg*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.co=
m*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1=
*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI=
joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DzzcnXlewWKrtEDv4Bm=
sNNk4pvDlMKNKvPzBZ2dZJm5k*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKio=
qJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1x=
xjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-gOuTqwg$>.
>>> It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing th=
e
>>> applicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Shwetha> This is a fair point. We will revise the  draft with text in
>>> the abstract and Section 3 IOAM-Type to be updated to include the usage
>>> of trace and DEX options.  The encapsulation of IOAM options within NSH
>>> itself in its current form already supports all the IOAM Option Type
>>> defined both from draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-data and draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-di=
rect-export
>>> along with the flags supported within the options. Hence the
>>> IOAM-data-field definitions in the draft will remain unchanged.
>>>
>>> GIM>> I agree that the definitions of the IOAM data-fields are invarian=
t
>>> in various data plane encapsulations. You likely follow the discussion =
of
>>> the IAOM Direct Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think that=
 for
>>> SFC NSH, IOAM Direct Export could be as simple as "use the local policy=
".
>>> The applicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems to require
>>> detailed explanation by SFP actors.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    - The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsulated packet
>>>    is defined in Section 3:
>>>
>>>    IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in NSH
>>>
>>>    using a next protocol header which follows the NSH MD context
>>>
>>>    headers.
>>>
>>> I've checked RFC 8300 but couldn't find it defines the Next Protocol
>>> header. Also, it appears that NSH Context headers are optional. Hence m=
y
>>> question. Is the presence of an NSH Context header required when using
>>> IOAM? Could you clarify which mechanism is used to identify the payload=
 of
>>> an SFC NSH-encapsulated packet as IOAM?
>>>
>>> Shwetha> We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol header but using
>>> IOAM as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and requested in IA=
NA
>>> section. Following is the proposed text to align with the RFC 8300
>>> reference to context headers following base header and service path hea=
der:
>>>
>>> "The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].  IOAM-Data-Fields are carried in
>>> NSH using a next protocol to identify IOAM data fields that follows NSH
>>> context headers."
>>>
>>> GIM>> I think that RFC 8300 views data following Context Headers as NSH
>>> payload, not being "in NSH".
>>>
>>>
>>>    - If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined in Section 3
>>>    correctly, the header's length is limited by 1020 octets, while the
>>>    effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. Is =
that
>>>    correct? What is the recommended technique of collecting IOAM data t=
hat
>>>    exceeds that limit?
>>>
>>> Shwetha > IOAM options inherently support specifying the size limits at
>>> the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing the soluti=
on
>>> the data types included and number of nodes expected to be adding the d=
ata
>>> should be selected. This is covered in deployment
>>> considerations draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.
>>>
>>>
>>>    - In Section 4.1, I've found the text reflecting the history of the
>>>    discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH encapsulatio=
n. As
>>>    the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an Appendi=
x.
>>>
>>> Shwetha > Agreed, revised draft will have this section moved to
>>> Appendix.
>>>
>>> GIM>> Thank you.
>>>
>>>
>>>    - I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed in Section
>>>    4.2 inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NSH
>>>    encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when us=
er data
>>>    follows it, the O-bit must not be set as. If there's no user data af=
ter the
>>>    IOAM header, then the O-bit must be set. But from the perspective of=
 NSH
>>>    encapsulation, it includes specially constructed data added for the =
sole
>>>    purpose of collecting OAM/telemetry information. Then, why, in one c=
ase,
>>>    the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the
>>>    NSH-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?
>>>
>>> Shwetha > The reason for not setting the O-bit for packets that contain=
s
>>> actual user data is because RFC 8300 has " SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier
>>> implementations that do not support
>>>
>>>       SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets with O bit set". It wil=
l be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit set that carry user data as =
IOAM can be inserted insitu.
>>>
>>> For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NS=
H following the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.
>>>
>>>  GIM>> This is an interesting situation. I agree that there could be an
>>> SFC element not supporting "SFC OAM procedures" (not clear what these a=
re).
>>> By the same token, would such SFC element support IOAM, be capable of
>>> processing IOAM without adverse impact to user data? I am not certain a=
nd
>>> it seems that it might be better to recommend that NSH packets with IOA=
M be
>>> dropped by an SFP element if it does not support "SFC OAM". What are yo=
ur
>>> thoughts?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Shwetha
>>>
>>> I much appreciate your consideration of my comments and questions and
>>> looking forward to your feedback.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Greg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM James Guichard <
>>> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Dear WG:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> This email starts a 2 week Working Group Last Call for
>>> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please read this document if you haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent v=
ersion
>>> and send your comments to the SFC WG list no later than September 1st
>>> 2021.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> If you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debate=
d
>>> on the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for this po=
int.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Lastly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate
>>> whether you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jim & Joel
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.=
com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safeli=
nks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F_=
_https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh*2F__*3B=
!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C=
7Z0OJKHdTiRE6A*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Caf9=
cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C=
637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2lu=
MzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3D9uDdhw0ViwBtWvn52V8UZ2G=
77lRnSye2Ols5z3U8QwQ*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA=
8obfbMABJv33kGkLw*24&data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5=
db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7=
C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2l=
uMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&sdata=3DS6sx7MrrVkzKepVgj45q*2F2=
KPZzBMyOFnol*2BMfgRQ730*3D&reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJ=
SUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xx=
jFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FOmuSHA$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> sfc mailing list
>>> sfc@ietf.org
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________________________________=
__________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations conf=
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>>> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme=
 ou falsifie. Merci.
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--00000000000069818a05dc9a7042
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Med, Greg,=C2=A0<div><br></div><div>How about this text=
 :</div><div><br></div><div><font face=3D"monospace">=E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUS=
T be handled following the rules in=C2=A0and any updates to=C2=A0[RFC8300]=
=C2=A0.&quot;</font></div><div><font face=3D"monospace"><br></font></div><d=
iv><font face=3D"monospace">Given that=C2=A0</font>I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet=
=C2=A0 will update RF8300 and there could be others in future?</div><div><b=
r></div><div>Thanks,</div><div>Shwetha</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_q=
uote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:24 PM=
 Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com">gregimirsky@gmail=
.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1=
ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Shwetha,<div>I believe that the text you&#39;ve quo=
ted is helpful. I would suggest changing references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.=
ietf-sfc-oam-packet] throughout that paragraph.</div><div><br></div><div>Re=
gards,</div><div>Greg</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D=
"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank">=
shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rg=
b(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Med,<div=
><br></div><div>Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had before =
the latest revision:</div><div><pre style=3D"font-size:13.3333px;margin-top=
:0px;margin-bottom:0px;break-before:page;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><span style=3D"d=
isplay:inline;font-size:1em;font-weight:bold"><a id=3D"gmail-m_916581567181=
3750990gmail-m_2516809974449838372gmail-section-4.2" href=3D"https://urldef=
ense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh=
-06*section-4.2__;Iw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-Ux=
Ei3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpJPfzrvI$" target=3D"_blank"=
>4.2</a>.  IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit</span>

   [<a id=3D"gmail-m_9165815671813750990gmail-m_2516809974449838372gmail-re=
f-RFC8300">RFC8300</a>] defines an &quot;O bit&quot; for OAM packets.  Per =
[<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/ht=
ml/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX=
0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpEB5AbbE$" title=3D"&quot;Network S=
ervice Header (NSH)&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8300</a>] the O
   bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
   packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
   definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
   traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
   OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
   payload.
</pre><br></div>This was removed as per the discussion in this thread. Plea=
se check <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://mailarchive.ietf.or=
g/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-S=
indy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIp-=
CeLfeA$" target=3D"_blank">https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5=
zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/</a><br><br>It looks like we are going in a loop here=
. This definition of SFC OAM packet to include the OAM data that comes in i=
nner packets via the next protocol header chain is introduced in draft-ietf=
-sfc-oam-packet to update the RFC8300.</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Jim, What are =
you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce the above text ?<br><br>Thanks,=
<br>Shwetha<div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quot=
e"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 8:09 PM &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed=
.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,20=
4);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Franck,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thank you for the clarification even if I don=E2=80=99t thin=
k there is a confusion.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Please note that SFC OAM packet is defined as follows:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Such a packet<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 is any NSH-enc=
apsulated packet that exclusively includes OAM data.<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 An OAM data ca=
n be included in the Fixed-Length Context Header,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 optional Conte=
xt Headers, and/or the inner packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">=3D=3D<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Things are pretty clear (as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet) t=
hat the O bit must be unset when IOAM data is included + user data.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">The concern I had is that you are pointing to RFC8300 for th=
e IOAM next protocol, which makes both =E2=80=9Cnone=E2=80=9D (i.e., no pay=
load) and IOAM (as you request a new
 code) legitimate values. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt; <b>De la part d=
e</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne)<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> mardi 12 avril 2022 13:55<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a=
>&gt;; Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.=
com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg Mirsk=
y &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsk=
y@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ie=
tf.org</a>; James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei=
.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi=
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.miz=
rahi.phd@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.=
org" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN=
2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf=
.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Med,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sorry for arriving late to the =
party. Reading through your message below, there seems to be a confusion ab=
out the scope and concept of different OAM mechanisms.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IOAM is scoped and designed to =
be protocol agnostic. IOAM data can be encapsulated into various protocols =
=E2=80=93 and NSH is one example =E2=80=93 but there is no semantic link be=
tween IOAM and the
 protocol used to encapsulate IOAM data.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Protocols can have their protoc=
ol specific OAM methods and solutions, like SFC OAM. Those protocol specifi=
c solutions (like SFC OAM as an example) are orthogonal to IOAM from a conc=
ept
 and scope perspective. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">From an SFC OAM perspective, yo=
ur draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet-00 clearly and rightly states that =E2=80=9CO =
bit: Setting this bit indicates an SFC OAM packet.=E2=80=9D The O bit is ab=
out SFC OAM, and
 as such is orthogonal to =E2=80=9Canything IOAM=E2=80=9D. In earlier versi=
ons of draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh we had text which stated that the O bit rema=
ins unchanged whether IOAM is present or not. To avoid any confusion, in -0=
8 we removed this statement =E2=80=93 just to make it crystal
 clear that there is no link between =E2=80=9CIOAM=E2=80=9D and =E2=80=9CSF=
C OAM=E2=80=9D.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In addition, I don=E2=80=99t th=
ink that draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh would be the appropriate place to discuss =
and restrict deployment options. E.g., I=E2=80=99m not sure why we=E2=80=99=
d want to restrict a deployment
 to using a single IOAM header only. E.g., one could think of using differe=
nt headers for different namespaces or groups of namespaces for operational=
 reasons. IMHO, such a discussion =E2=80=93 if we really need it - would be=
long into draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-deployment,
 rather than into a draft that defines the encap of IOAM into NSH.<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hope this clarifies things =E2=
=80=93 and we can finish up draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh :-).<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cc=E2=80=99ing the ippm working=
 group as an FYI.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks &amp; Cheers, Frank<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blan=
k">
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@or=
ange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, 4 April 2022 07:40<br>
<b>To:</b> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughts=
pot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg M=
irsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregim=
irsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-cha=
irs@ietf.org</a>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne=
@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; James G=
uichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!J=
pBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO=
2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Shwetha, all,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">I agree with Greg that a statement is needed =
to be added to draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">For example, the current text says the follow=
ing:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Next Protocol:=
=C2=A0 8-bit unsigned integer that determines the type of<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 header following IOAM.=C2=A0 The semantics of this field are<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0 identical to the Next Protocol field in [</span><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.c=
om/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JpBZ=
4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN2YTO2qU=
w70GqHI4QEKQpGnDoYxXlRw$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Header (NSH)&quot;=
" target=3D"_blank"><span lang=3D"EN-US">RFC8300</span></a></span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">].=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">which means that =E2=80=9CNone=E2=80=9D is au=
thorized. The O-bit must be set for such packets, while it should be unset =
for other values indicating user payload
 as per draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. Absent a pointer to the OAM packet, an i=
mplementer will have to guess the behavior to follow.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">BTW, the text quoted above when combined with=
:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 IANA is requested to allocate pr=
otocol numbers for the following &quot;NSH<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Next Protocol&quot; related to I=
OAM:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=E2=80=A6means that IOAM data can be encapsul=
ated in IOAM data. I don=E2=80=99t think you want such a behavior. No?<u></=
u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">One last comment: please update the security =
considerations with NSH-specific considerations. An approach is to simply r=
efer to Section 5 of
 draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> sfc &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-bounc=
es@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>De la part de</b> Shwetha Bhandari<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> lundi 4 avril 2022 02:41<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">s=
fc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fb=
rockne@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">fbrockne@cisco.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; James G=
uichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_bl=
ank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com<=
/a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!JpBZ4H2-MNm5lJDGjooVj_3Sq-aX7gdh5qeoNPyZ69CXOFRhgdYmSOyreClzKvZDgPAiwaGN=
2YTO2qUw70GqHI4QEKQpGnBw0LXBXQ$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks=C2=A0for the feedback. From the discussion an=
d Jim&#39;s feedback<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0&quot;<span style=3D"font-size:9.5pt">My only =
point was that in the case of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolete as you us=
e the next protocol field rather than the context headers. It seems to me t=
hat the definition of the O-bit should be that
 if set then the context headers are used to obtain the OAM instructions.&q=
uot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Which makes sense. The O-bit does not influence IOAM=
 handling as it is carried as a next protocol.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hence the consideration section on O-bit is removed =
in the new revision. What do you think?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Mon, Apr 4, 2022, 1:41 AM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</=
a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">thank you for your kind consideration of my comments=
 and for thoroughly=C2=A0addressing those in the new version. I&#39;ve noti=
ced that you&#39;ve decided to remove the discussion of the O bit in the NS=
H from the draft altogether. I think that it=C2=A0might
 be helpful=C2=A0to a reader if the document includes a short clarification=
 and the reference to
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ietf.org/id/draft-ietf-sf=
c-oam-packet-00.html__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtUwScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr=
9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wzu6YfUSVditWyZ_8$" target=3D"_bla=
nk">
draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet</a>=C2=A0like the following:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For the IOAM functionality is SFC NSH described in t=
his document the O bit<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">in NSH MUST be set clear according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-=
oam-packet].<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Sun, Apr 3, 2022 at 1:06 AM Shwetha Bhandari &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwet=
ha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Jim, Greg,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">We have addressed the additional comments received i=
n this discussion. Can you please take a look :<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ie=
tf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!JYVtU=
wScRxFf7rDoRMpiv7YwbRTcaHXzsGIxr9eVEi_p_xSQUWAjDvFy_UhGEQbl8530VaLM0Tj7k5Wz=
u6YfUSVd4KRpUCA$" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddra=
ft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-08.txt</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Thu, Feb 10, 2022 at 11:27 PM James Guichard &lt;=
<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank">james.n=
.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">My only point was that in the c=
ase of IOAM the O-bit seems to be obsolete as you use the next protocol fie=
ld rather than the context headers. It seems to me that
 the definition of the O-bit should be that if set then the context headers=
 are used to obtain the OAM instructions. Currently that is not what 8300 s=
ays. As I said in my previous emails I would really like to hear the WGs op=
inion on what to do with the O-bit
 and we certainly need to reconcile the various documents to be following t=
he same standard.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thought=
spot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, February 9, 2022 9:57 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.=
com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5=
SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_8pjQ1iQ$" =
target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On the O bit handling, are you =
suggesting that the O-bit for IOAM, that is carried as a next protocol foll=
owing=C2=A0NSH header, is not applicable? Would removing
 the section on O-bit considerations resolve your concern?<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;I have one more question. A=
s the draft now mentions the option of using IOAM Direct Export to collect =
the IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecting that in the
 figure on p.2. I think that the caption &quot;IOAM Option and Data Space&q=
uot; might be reworded=C2=A0to &quot;IOAM Option and Optional Data Space&qu=
ot;.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What are your thoughts?<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Yes, that will make it accurate=
. I will update the diagram and publish a new version.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt;I cannot find the text in t=
he draft suggesting that an SFF that does not support IOAM may forward the =
packet with the NSH Next Protocol field equal to IOAM protocol
 identifier. Could you help me find it?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Can you suggest text to help wi=
th this ? This would be a generic problem for NSH implementation when a nex=
t protocol is set to a value it does not understand.
 What should is recommended action in this situation?<u></u><u></u></span><=
/p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">&gt; For example, if the Loopba=
ck IOAM flag is set, the node is required to send a copy of the packet back=
 to the IOAM encapsulating node. It is not clear to me
 how an SFF learns the identity of the IOAM encapsulating node and how it e=
ncapsulates the loopbacked packet. Can you help me find how it is supposed =
to work in the NSH?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.c=
om/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2F=
datatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*23section-4.=
2&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c3240233=
4fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C63780015463112=
0774*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik=
1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DzcOpC0Gzzi8xzhttBqWaeaU3pMd0KDo*2FZ=
YdGsEPG0uE*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY=
!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_cH_6kAg=
$" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ippm-=
ioam-flags#section-4.2</a>:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>=C2=A0 A Loopback flag that is set indicates to the transit nodes processi=
ng</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 this option th=
at they are to create a copy of the received packet and</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 send the copy =
back to the source of the packet. </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u=
></span></pre>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Given this is explained in the =
flag handling, do you see a need to define it again in NSH? IMHO the explan=
ation of flag handling is quite generic for any packet
 based transport.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please share your thoughts and =
text suggestions to improve the draft for flag handling if it requires clar=
ification.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Thu, Feb 3, 2022 at 6:48 AM =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have one more question. As th=
e draft now mentions the option of using IOAM Direct Export to collect the =
IOAM data, it might be helpful reflecting that in the
 figure on p.2. I think that the caption &quot;IOAM Option and Data Space&q=
uot; might be reworded=C2=A0to &quot;IOAM Option and Optional Data Space&qu=
ot;.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What are your thoughts?<u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Feb 2, 2022 at 7:29 AM =
Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim, Greg,<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks for the follow up.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">1) On O-bit: I am a bit confuse=
d about the O-bit feedback. Are you suggesting that it should not be a cons=
ideration for IOAM as it is handled as a next protocol
 and not as NSH context headers?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">What should a SFC element handl=
e a packet containing IOAM as next header and does not implement IOAM and h=
ence does not understand IOAM? I think O-bit helps in
 such situations to help such elements decide to drop or forward without pr=
ocessing the IOAM header.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Let me know if that is not the =
case and if simply not considering O-bit in the context of IOAM is what you=
 would recommend.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">2)
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!eu0=
5ObEvXtnVX2OXFzl0g16vk36xSqTyjMReG_i6BavtG_ru2AnjQSjXHiZ_Ve3sBjJRuHMBUg*24&=
amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334f=
c08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C6378001546312770=
05*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1h=
aWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DDvpZHlkn0PNCP5*2BzFQzGayutZGPUMxJXtPl=
l6nR8Ay8*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw4=
5to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_4=
eduZWg$" target=3D"_blank">
Active or Loopback flags</a>=C2=A0- there is nothing specific=C2=A0for NSH =
on how the flags are to be handled.=C2=A0 The IOAM specific fields are to b=
e handled as recommended by the respective IOAM drafts. Do you see any spec=
ific NSH considerations to be documented for IOAM
 fields?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Feb 1, 2022 at 4:29 PM =
James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=
=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha &amp; Greg,<u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thank you for the update.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I still believe however that mo=
re work is necessary to reconcile how SFC OAM is supposed to work. RFC 8300=
 says:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 O bit:=C2=A0 Setting=
 this bit indicates an OAM packet (see [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v=
3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furld=
efense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Frfc62=
91__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy=
5gHA8obfbMABJs06rKUNw*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.=
com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7=
C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJ=
QIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3D4wRcNgj93har=
9TlylAfX*2BtbW24VCqfneSZd0rD9CRzs*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AV=
bjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8b5uw-Yg$" title=3D"&quot;Guidelines for the Use of =
the &quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC6291</a>]).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Th=
e actual format and processing of SFC OAM packets is outside the</span><spa=
n lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 sc=
ope of this specification (for example, see [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2=
Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2F=
rfc8300*ref-SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywf=
zpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJsisioAug*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7C=
james.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8=
ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbG=
Zsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C=
3000&amp;sdata=3DA6fkAO8CwRJeW5tLLEpU0GhZrqsBOm7nUiE1QiMxwVQ*3D&amp;reserve=
d=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFW=
gJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW_b7k_TUA$" target=3D"_bla=
nk">SFC-OAM-FRAMEWORK</a>]</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 fo=
r one approach).</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0Th=
e O bit MUST be set for OAM packets and MUST NOT be set for</span><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 no=
n-OAM packets.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">If we look at RFC6291 it simply=
 describes what OAM is supposed to mean and this is independent from SFC. T=
he SFC-OAM-Framework (now RFC 8924) in section 6.3 says:<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 The Next Protocol fi=
eld in the NSH header may be used to indicate what OAM function is intended=
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 or what toolset is u=
sed.=C2=A0 Any other overlay encapsulations used at the service layer must =
have
 a </span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0similar way to =
indicate the intended OAM function.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">So my reading of this is that i=
f you take 8300 together with the framework then 1. The O-bit MUST be set f=
or OAM packets, and 2. The Next Protocol field may or
 may not be used to indicate which OAM function is to be applied. From this=
 I can determine that iOAM has taken the approach of using the next protoco=
l field to indicate how to process the OAM packet and does NOT use the NSH =
context headers in any way shape
 or form. This seems consistent with the current definitions of the O-bit f=
rom RFC 8300 and processing guidelines from RFC 8924.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">However, your document says:<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font=
-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black"><a href=3D"https://urldefense.=
com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2=
Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2F=
draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*section-4.1__*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCb=
Cwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJtXMLMQUw*24&amp;data=3D0=
4*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83c=
f*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown=
*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6=
Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3Dw3hANsqqvVWz5oeH*2BLfPwS*2Fxwh2hNERJwCw5zwdrAMA*3=
D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!=
f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW9Fp7_C8w$=
" target=3D"_blank">4.1</a>.=C2=A0
 IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u=
></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC8300] defines an=
 &quot;O bit&quot; for OAM packets.=C2=A0 Per [<a href=3D"https://urldefens=
e.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F=
*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*=
2Frfc8300__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10=
KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJuMIrqXAQ*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fut=
urewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3Da*2BV=
evL6noSzqRzdWg6dscjiqevlLbxcgEdTEmfJAY7U*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoO=
gCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW92fQLzlQ$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Hea=
der (NSH)&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC8300</a>]
 the O</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 bit must be set for =
OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 Packe=
ts with IOAM data included MUST follow this</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition, i.e. the=
 O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 traffic which also c=
arries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM packets which ca=
rry only IOAM data without any regular data</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u><=
/u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 payload.</span><span=
 lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This text basically says that i=
f the packet is customer traffic and happens to carry iOAM data then it is =
NOT an OAM packet.=C2=A0 What am I missing, customer traffic
 or not, both carry iOAM data so how are they different within an SFC domai=
n?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span lang=3D"EN-US">In=
 addition to the above I will note that there is still a conflict with Greg=
=E2=80=99s draft namely this text from section 4:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 *=C2=A0 O bit set an=
d the &quot;Next Protocol&quot; value does not match the value</span><span =
lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Ac=
tive SFC OAM (TBA1), defined in
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatr=
acker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-multi-layer-oam*section-10.1__=
*3BIw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5g=
HA8obfbMABJv1ohYIeg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.co=
m*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1=
*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQI=
joiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DHTLx6e4sQCvsjX=
ZKxG1GA8XPvdswsQKEMIEABitkprw*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjde=
h2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-EwTZ2zw$" target=3D"_blank">
Section 10.1</a>:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - An SFC NSH Context Header(s) contain an OAM processing</s=
pan><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 instructions or data.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-fa=
mily:&quot;Courier New&quot;;color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 - The &quot;Next Protocol&quot; field determines the type o=
f the payload.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">The above text suggests to me t=
hat if the O-bit is set and the next protocol is not active SFC OAM then it=
 is *<b>required</b>* that OAM data will be in the NSH
 context headers (which is not the case for iOAM) and the next protocol wil=
l indicate what follows the NSH header. While iOAM does follow the NSH head=
er as indicated by the next protocol there is still an expectation that OAM=
 is also carried in the NSH context
 headers. This seems to be in conflict with RFC 8300 AND RFC 8924. <u></u><=
u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This of course is just my readi=
ng of the text and I would like to hear yours and other folks thoughts.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thought=
spot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, January 31, 2022 11:25 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=
=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.=
com" target=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draft=
-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a>;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefens=
e.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-io=
am-nsh*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10=
KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJu3416GCQ*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fut=
urewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DNKz8*=
2Fm*2Fh7WXjK0OP8NF4j5cQ*2FYgSrSMULRmDt*2FkX*2B10*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUl=
JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5=
ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW8EWrHtpA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Greg,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Sorry for the late action on th=
is.
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.=
org*2Fdoc*2Fhtml*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.gu=
ichard*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b2401=
89c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJW=
IjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sda=
ta*3Dpl23JSzuzl5p2F8vooPyxVcUnWRdcWx*2F26MRFfJAIh4*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fV=
r4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJvEbkwM5w*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.gui=
chard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b24018=
9c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWI=
joiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sd=
ata=3DdpoyXLu*2F9fGVSgLtewdI7wNfSPdrkhs7FtBdD3Aq7*2B0*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__=
;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-Hq=
DItW9PuM1neA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-07</a> has be=
en now posted with the edits per this discussion.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Jim,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">After Greg&#39;s review please =
let us know if the changes are good to progress the draft to the next step.=
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Oct 27, 2021 at 7:31 PM=
 Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></span=
></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">thank you for the detailed resp=
onse to my comments. Please feel free to share any updates you&#39;re consi=
dering for the next version. I&#39;ll be glad to work together
 on these.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I have several follow-up notes =
in-lined below under the GIM&gt;&gt; tag.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Tue, Oct 26, 2021 at 6:51 PM=
 Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Hi Greg,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Sorry for the very late reply. Please find responses to your=
 comments inline @Shwetha:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Sep 8, 2021 at 3:30 AM =
Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">=
gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear Authors and All,<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;ve read the current versi=
on of the draft and have some comments I&#39;d like to share with you. I mu=
ch appreciate your thoughts on where this work should go considering
 developments in other IETF WGs. Please find my notes and questions below:<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">It is stated in the Abstract that:<u></u><u></u></span=
></li></ul>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0In-situ Operations=
, Administration, and Maintenance (IOAM) records<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0operational and telemetry information in the packet while the =
packet<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0traverses a path between two points in the network.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">But that is the case only for t=
he pre-allocated and incremental trace option=C2=A0types. The
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePah=
NAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fu=
turewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3Di7sTr0=
MtC5qfzx3twOKSpbW8LkQJzsAJBxF*2FZPLUwKc*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4=
clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt0mRguJg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guich=
ard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c=
753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo=
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdat=
a=3DyVGpJY1y6dud5c44HOsptPjqEuXdNUa1DMzjAelvU5c*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-H=
qDItW-BwxdRIg$" target=3D"_blank">
Direct Export option</a> does not write telemetry=C2=A0data into the data p=
acket itself but export telemetry information in a specially constructed pa=
cket.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">And as we are talking about dif=
ferent IOAM trace options, the question=C2=A0of the scope of this document =
seems appropriate. There is
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fmailarchive.ietf.org*2Farch*2Fmsg*2Fippm*2FA0OcGQ5LlNj=
njfRVp_iUTMYMrcs*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfP=
NhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHOndSFRg*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guicha=
rd*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c7=
53a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoi=
MC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3=
DcHtvsgDl*2FuzSv70oS9LN5l2o5nEIwiKHDZ1sfiFJCrE*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpG=
jZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJu2SsX7cg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjam=
es.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C300=
0&amp;sdata=3DY*2BwywuTSj4SpugrjmDTquAY0MZWKoT43CMjsyha*2FnOc*3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqKioqKioqKioqKiUlKiolJSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8A=
Vbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FRADPxg$" target=3D"_blank">
a WGLC on two IOAM documents</a> active through September 15th at the IPPM =
WG. I believe that it would be beneficial if we had a single document that =
describes the applicability of IOAM in all its functionality defined by doc=
uments in IPPM WG. Of course, that
 cannot be a moving target as that would not be helpful. But since the IPPM=
 WG discusses the progress of two IOAM documents, it could be a great time =
to address the applicability of
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.ou=
tlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.=
safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2F=
v3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioam-dire=
ct-export*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePah=
NAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKE0jphubQ*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40fu=
turewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d55=
91fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjA=
wMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3Di7sTr0=
MtC5qfzx3twOKSpbW8LkQJzsAJBxF*2FZPLUwKc*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4=
clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt0mRguJg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guich=
ard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c=
753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjo=
iMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdat=
a=3DyVGpJY1y6dud5c44HOsptPjqEuXdNUa1DMzjAelvU5c*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJ=
SUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!=
!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-H=
qDItW-BwxdRIg$" target=3D"_blank">
the Direct Export trace type</a> and Loopback and Active flags defined in=
=C2=A0<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protect=
ion.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2F=
nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.=
com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatracker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-ippm-ioa=
m-flags*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNA=
YMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHO7lReVw*24*26data*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futu=
rewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591=
fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwM=
DAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3D1kqtcu3x=
jl1C7ytQ*2BoaKdiQN96rQt94e1S2ElC0nD3M*3D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU=
lJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4cl=
Cr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJt8NqRRKg*24&amp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichar=
d*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c75=
3a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C637800154631277005*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiM=
C4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=
=3DzzcnXlewWKrtEDv4BmsNNk4pvDlMKNKvPzBZ2dZJm5k*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJS=
UlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKioqKioqKiolJSoqJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!=
MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5ZlZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-Hq=
DItW-gOuTqwg$" target=3D"_blank">draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-flags</a>.
 It would be concerning to have more than one SFC document describing the a=
pplicability of the generic IOAM mechanisms<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha&gt; This is a fair point. We will revise the=C2=A0 d=
raft with text in the abstract and Section 3 I<span style=3D"color:black;ba=
ckground:rgb(255,253,245)">OAM-Type</span>=C2=A0to
 be updated to include the usage of trace and DEX options.=C2=A0 The encaps=
ulation of IOAM options within NSH itself in its current form already suppo=
rts all the IOAM Option Type defined both from draft-<span style=3D"color:b=
lack;background:rgb(255,253,245)">ietf-ippm-ioam-data
 and=C2=A0</span>draft-ietf-ippm-ioam-direct-export along with the flags su=
pported within the options. Hence the IOAM-data-field definitions in the dr=
aft will remain unchanged.=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u><=
/span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; I agree that the de=
finitions of the IOAM data-fields are invariant in various data plane encap=
sulations. You likely follow the discussion of the IAOM Direct
 Export and IOAM flags on the IPPM WG list. I think that for SFC NSH, IOAM =
Direct Export could be as simple as &quot;use the local policy&quot;. The a=
pplicability of the Loopback and Active flags seems to require detailed exp=
lanation by SFP actors.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">The location of the IOAM header in the SFC NSH-encapsu=
lated=C2=A0packet is defined in Section 3:<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0IOAM-Data-Fields a=
re carried in NSH<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0using a next proto=
col header which follows the NSH MD context<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0 =C2=A0headers.<u></u><u>=
</u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
<blockquote style=3D"margin:5pt 0cm 5pt 30pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I&#39;ve checked RFC 8300 but c=
ouldn&#39;t find it defines the Next Protocol header. Also, it appears that=
 NSH Context headers=C2=A0are optional. Hence my question. Is the
 presence of an NSH Context header required when using IOAM? Could you clar=
ify which mechanism is used to identify the payload of an SFC NSH-encapsula=
ted packet as IOAM?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha&gt; We will reword it, it is not Next Protocol heade=
r but using IOAM as a Next Protocol as described in Section 4.1 and
 requested in IANA section. Following is the proposed text to align with th=
e RFC 8300 reference to context headers following base header and service p=
ath header:</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">&quot;The NSH is defined in [RFC8300].=C2=A0 IOAM-Data-Field=
s are carried in NSH=C2=A0using a next protocol to identify IOAM data field=
s that
 follows NSH context headers.&quot;</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; I think that RFC 83=
00 views data following Context Headers as NSH payload, not being &quot;in =
NSH&quot;.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">If I understand the format of the IOAM header defined =
in Section 3 correctly, the header&#39;s length is limited by 1020 octets, =
while the effective length containing IOAM options and data - 1016 octets. =
Is that correct? What is the recommended
 technique of collecting IOAM data that exceeds that limit?<u></u><u></u></=
span></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; IOAM options inherently support specifying the =
size limits at the node that added the IOAM options. While operationalizing
 the solution the data types included and number of nodes expected to be ad=
ding the data should be selected. This is covered in deployment considerati=
ons=C2=A0draft-brockners-opsawg-ioam-deployment.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">In Section 4.1, I&#39;ve found the text reflecting the=
 history of the discussion about how to carry the IOAM header using NSH enc=
apsulation. As the text has no normative value, I suggest moving it into an=
 Appendix.<u></u><u></u></span></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; Agreed, revised draft will have this section mo=
ved to Appendix.=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">GIM&gt;&gt; Thank you.=C2=A0<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<ul type=3D"disc">
<li class=3D"MsoNormal">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">I find the rules of handling the O-bit in NSH listed i=
n Section 4.2 inconsistent and confusing. The IOAM header is not part of NS=
H encapsulation but is a part of the payload. But in one case, when user da=
ta follows it, the O-bit must not
 be set as. If there&#39;s no user data after the IOAM header, then the O-b=
it must be set. But from the perspective of NSH encapsulation, it includes =
specially constructed data added for the sole purpose of collecting OAM/tel=
emetry information. Then, why, in one
 case, the O-bit is cleared and in the other set if, in both cases, the NSH=
-encapsulated packet is used to perform the OAM function?<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></li></ul>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha &gt; The reason for not setting the O-bit for packet=
s that contains actual user data is because RFC 8300 has &quot;<span style=
=3D"color:black">
 SF/SFF/SFC Proxy/Classifier implementations that do not support</span></sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 SFC OAM procedures SHOULD discard packets w=
ith O bit set&quot;. It will be undesirable to discard packets with O-bit s=
et that carry user data as IOAM can be inserted insitu.</span><span lang=3D=
"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black"=
>For synthetic traffic created for OAM along with IOAM-data-fields in NSH f=
ollowing the NSH OAM function with 0-bit set is desirable.=C2=A0 </span><sp=
an lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0GIM&gt;&gt; This is an in=
teresting situation. I agree that there could be an SFC element not support=
ing &quot;SFC OAM procedures&quot; (not clear what these are). By the same
 token, would such SFC element support IOAM, be capable of processing IOAM =
without adverse impact to user data? I am not certain and it seems that it =
might be better to recommend that NSH packets with IOAM be dropped by an SF=
P element if it does not support
 &quot;SFC OAM&quot;. What are your thoughts?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thanks,</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Shwetha</span><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">I much appreciate your consider=
ation of my comments and questions and looking forward to your feedback.<u>=
</u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Greg<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">On Wed, Aug 18, 2021 at 5:32 AM=
 James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin:5pt 0c=
m 5pt 4.8pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Dear WG:<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">This email starts a 2 week Work=
ing Group Last Call for draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh [1].<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Please read this document if yo=
u haven=E2=80=99t read the most recent version and send your comments to th=
e SFC WG list no later than September 1<sup>st</sup> 2021.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">I=
f you are raising a point which you expect will be specifically debated on =
the mailing list, consider using a specific email/thread for
 this point.</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">=
=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:rgb(33,37,41)">L=
astly, if you are an author or contributor please response to indicate whet=
her you know of any undisclosed IPR related to this document.
</span><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks!<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Jim &amp; Joel<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">[1] <a href=3D"https://urldefens=
e.com/v3/__https:/nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps*3A*2F=
*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fnam11.safelinks.protection.outlook=
.com*2F*3Furl*3Dhttps*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2F*2Fdatatra=
cker.ietf.org*2Fdoc*2Fdraft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh*2F__*3B!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!db6q3n8=
-5YqHkLtf3wyeBoUpO72v7UzeDtfPNhyePahNAYMo9eFdQxxBWM4C7Z0OJKHdTiRE6A*24*26da=
ta*3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Caf9cde32be65486e459d08d9e=
53ac90c*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C1*7C637792862928234181*7CU=
nknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC=
JXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000*26sdata*3D9uDdhw0ViwBtWvn52V8UZ2G77lRnSye2Ols5z3U8QwQ*3=
D*26reserved*3D0__*3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!bzL7=
Vb_jHltGMCbCwne2rywfzpGjZW4o3fVr4clCr4Ir10KydDyJy5gHA8obfbMABJv33kGkLw*24&a=
mp;data=3D04*7C01*7Cjames.n.guichard*40futurewei.com*7Ca5db82494c32402334fc=
08d9ebdc83cf*7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc*7C1*7C0*7C63780015463127700=
5*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1ha=
WwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000&amp;sdata=3DS6sx7MrrVkzKepVgj45q*2F2KPZzBMyOFnol*2=
BMfgRQ730*3D&amp;reserved=3D0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUqKioqKioqKioqKioqJSUqKioqKio=
qKioqKiolJSolJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!f5SSgs9VAH1xxjFWgJMfr5Z=
lZH93z6GJlXoOgCmY8AVbjdeh2YlaUz632nE-HqDItW-FOmuSHA$" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a></span><span l=
ang=3D"EN-US"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"background:white">
<span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0</span><span lang=3D"EN-US=
"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:131.25pt">
<span lang=3D"EN-US">_______________________________________________<br>
sfc mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a><br>
<br>
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
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</blockquote></div></div>
</blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div>

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From: Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 06:11:21 -0700
Message-ID: <CA+RyBmX3MdqVX5=hEsO+9SMbpXw+enwnm_qb4+-6smqbsTPPwg@mail.gmail.com>
To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>,  "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>,  "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>,  James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>,  "draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/9qOHywYaS-pFgxD4DtLefuxPicw>
Subject: Re: [ippm] [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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Hi Shwetha,
thank you for the proposed resolution. I agree with Med, direct normative
reference to I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet seems like the logical conclusion of
our discussion of the use of the NSH O bit. Please note that we're
referring to I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet in the Active SFC OAM draft, e.g.,:

The O bit in NSH MUST be set, according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet].


Regards,
Greg

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 4:27 AM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Hi Shwetha,
>
>
>
> I prefer we go for an explicit reference to I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet rathe=
r
> than =E2=80=9Cany update to RFC8300=E2=80=9D. This is consistent with the=
 usage in the
> other OAM draft.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 14 avril 2022 12:06
> *=C3=80 :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; Frank
> Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
>
>
>
> Hi Med, Greg,
>
>
>
> How about this text :
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be handled following the rules in and any updates
> to [RFC8300] ."
>
>
>
> Given that I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet  will update RF8300 and there could be
> others in future?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:24 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Shwetha,
>
> I believe that the text you've quoted is helpful. I would suggest changin=
g
> references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet] throughout that
> paragraph.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>
> Med,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had before the latest
> revision:
>
> *4.2 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr=
aft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-06*section-4.2__;Iw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy7=
4K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpJPfzrv=
I$>.  IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit*
>
>
>
>    [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300 <https://u=
rldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45=
to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUz=
WfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpEB5AbbE$>] the O
>
>    bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
>
>    packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
>
>    definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
>
>    traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
>
>    OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
>
>    payload.
>
>
>
> This was removed as per the discussion in this thread. Please check
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srM=
it5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx3=
5STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIp-CeLfeA$>
>
> It looks like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM
> packet to include the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next
> protocol header chain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to updat=
e
> the RFC8300.
>
> Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce the above text =
?
>
> Thanks,
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Shwetha,<div>thank you for the propose=
d resolution. I agree with Med, direct normative reference to I-D.ietf-sfc-=
oam-packet seems like the logical conclusion of our discussion of the use o=
f the NSH O bit. Please note that we&#39;re referring to I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-p=
acket in the Active SFC OAM draft, e.g.,:</div></div><blockquote style=3D"m=
argin:0 0 0 40px;border:none;padding:0px"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div>The O =
bit in NSH MUST be set, according to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet].</div></div>=
</div></blockquote><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><br></div><div>Regards,</div><div>=
Greg</div></div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=
=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 14, 2022 at 4:27 AM &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moham=
ed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></d=
iv><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;bord=
er-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" style=3D"overflow-wrap: break-word;">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_4283617141386481504WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Shwetha,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">I prefer we go for an explicit reference to I-D.ietf-sfc-oam=
-packet rather than =E2=80=9Cany update to RFC8300=E2=80=9D. This is consis=
tent with the usage in the other OAM
 draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thank you. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwetha.bhandari@th=
oughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> jeudi 14 avril 2022 12:06<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.=
boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&gt=
;; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;fbrockne=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40cisco.com@=
dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a>=
; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a hr=
ef=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a>; James Guic=
hard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank=
">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto=
:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com</a>=
&gt;;
 <a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">draf=
t-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.=
org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med, Greg,=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How about this text :<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be handled following the rules in=C2=A0and any upda=
tes to=C2=A0[RFC8300]=C2=A0.&quot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Given that=C2=A0</span>I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet=C2=A0 will update RF8300 and=
 there could be others in future?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:24 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that the text you&#39;ve quoted is helpful=
. I would suggest changing references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-p=
acket] throughout that paragraph.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank">shwe=
tha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had =
before the latest revision:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><b><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf=
-sfc-ioam-nsh-06*section-4.2__;Iw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6E=
WJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpJPfzrvI$" id=
=3D"gmail-m_4283617141386481504gmail-m_9165815671813750990gmail-m_251680997=
4449838372gmail-section-4.2" target=3D"_blank">4.2</a>.=C2=A0 IOAM and the =
use of the NSH O-bit</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></=
span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC8300] defines an &quot;O =
bit&quot; for OAM packets.=C2=A0 Per [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/=
__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y=
_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FO=
IpEB5AbbE$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Header (NSH)&quot;" target=3D"_b=
lank">RFC8300</a>] the O<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 bit must be set for OAM packe=
ts and must not be set for non-OAM<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 Packets with I=
OAM data included MUST follow this<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition, i.e. the O bit MU=
ST NOT be set for regular customer<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 traffic which also carries IO=
AM data and the O bit MUST be set for<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM packets which carry only =
IOAM data without any regular data<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 payload.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This was removed as per the discussion in this threa=
d. Please check
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg=
/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QD=
A6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIp-CeLfeA$" t=
arget=3D"_blank">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/</a><=
br>
<br>
It looks like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM packe=
t to include the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next protocol=
 header chain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to update the RFC8=
300.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintr=
oduce the above text ?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
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</pre></div>

</blockquote></div>

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------=_001_NextPart066174134845_=----
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	charset="utf-8"
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<html><head>
<meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8"><s=
tyle>body { line-height: 1.5; }blockquote { margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom:=
 0px; margin-left: 0.5em; }body { font-size: 10.5pt; font-family: =E5=BE=AE=
=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); line-height: 1.5; }</styl=
e></head><body>=0A=
<div><span></span>Hello Giuseppe and all,</div><div><br></div><div>I've rea=
d the two drafts.&nbsp;<span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; line-height: 1.5; =
background-color: transparent;">The solutions proposed are interesting and =
may be useful in theory. However, I see no standard requirement &nbsp;in th=
eir current versions. Can the implemetations from different vendors interop=
erate with each other? If&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"font-size: 10.5pt; lin=
e-height: 1.5; background-color: transparent;">draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mar=
k is enough to ensure the interoperation, is it possible to not refer RFC83=
21 or 8889 at all?</span></div>=0A=
<div><br></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" s=
ize=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A=
<div><span><div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t"><div><div style=3D"font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; fo=
nt-size: 14px; line-height: 21px;">Best Regards,</div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: 14px; line-height: 2=
1px;">Zhenqiang Li</div></div><div><br></div><div>li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com<=
/div></div></span></div>=0A=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5e=
m"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0p=
t;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT=
: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefe=
f; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D=
"mailto:giuseppe.fioccola=3D40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org">Giuseppe Fioccola<=
/a></div><div><b>Date:</b>&nbsp;2022-04-09&nbsp;02:05</div><div><b>To:</b>&=
nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:ietfa@btconnect.com">t petch</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:=
tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org">Tommy Pauly</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ipp=
m@ietf.org">IETF IPPM WG</a></div><div><b>Subject:</b>&nbsp;Re: [ippm] WG a=
doption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis</div></div></div><div><div>Hi Tom,<=
/div>=0A=
<div>Please see my replies inline tagged as [GF].</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>Regards,</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>Giuseppe </div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>-----Original Message-----</div>=0A=
<div>From: t petch &lt;ietfa@btconnect.com&gt; </div>=0A=
<div>Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 5:37 PM</div>=0A=
<div>To: Giuseppe Fioccola &lt;giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com&gt;; Tommy Paul=
y &lt;tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; IETF IPPM WG &lt;ippm@ietf.o=
rg&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis</div>=
=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>On 08/04/2022 10:52, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote:</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Hi Tom,</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Thank you for your feedback.</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Please find my answers inline tagged as [GF].</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Regards,</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Giuseppe</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; -----Original Message-----</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; From: ippm &lt;ippm-bounces@ietf.org&gt; On Behalf Of t petch</di=
v>=0A=
<div>&gt; Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 11:27 AM</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; To: Tommy Pauly &lt;tpauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org&gt;; IETF=
 IPPM WG </div>=0A=
<div>&gt; &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis</=
div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; On 08/04/2022 09:42, t petch wrote:</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt; On 08/04/2022 01:03, Tommy Pauly wrote:</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello IPPM,</div>=0A=
<div>&lt;snip&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt; 'this document'</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt; Which document?</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt; Please post subsequent e-mails about one I-D only with the su=
bject </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt; line indicating which, else I will get confused (and may well=
 confuse </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt; others with my comments).</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; I note that 'this document' fails to give any explanation of why =
it exists (beyond the boiler-plate that tells me it is obsoleting)?</div>=
=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Why?&nbsp; I may know the answer but think it wrong to assume tha=
t others will.</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; This should be in the Introduction and there should also be a 'Ch=
anges from ...'</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; [GF]: Sure. I will add the explanation in the introduction of bot=
h RFC8321bis and RFC8889bis. It is to elevate the Experimental RFCs to Stan=
dard Track. There are several implementations (e.g. https://datatracker.iet=
f.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/&nbsp; that need a normative refere=
nce for the methodology. Our initial approach was to use the informative re=
ference but it was not accepted by the IESG. Therefore it was suggested to =
obsolete the experimental docs with new standard docs.</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>Yes.&nbsp; I have followed the thread and did voice my support for new=
 RFC which I am glad to see.&nbsp; And below ...</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>[GF]: Thank you for the support.</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Please note that, for both drafts, you can find the Changes Log i=
n Appendix with all the modifications from the original RFCs for each versi=
on.</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp; ... Yes but that is not quite what I had in mind.&nbsp;&nbsp; T=
hink of an </div>=0A=
<div>implementor who has accurately implemented RFC8321; they need to know =
if and how to change the code, they do not want a blow-by-blow account of e=
very text change, how the RFC-to-be came to be what it is, just a statement=
 of what needs changing where (if anything); and an Appendix labelled 'Chan=
ges Log', while helpful for the WG, is a candidate for excision by the RFC =
Editor whereas I am thinking of an Informative appendix that is referenced =
by the Introduction - 'Appendix X contains a list of technical changes from=
 RFC8321'. Look at RFC7950; this lists the changes from RFC6020 and, at the=
 insistence of the AD, the list was split into NBC and BC and was put up fr=
ont.&nbsp; Your changes are likely minor but I think that RFC7950 is a temp=
late of how to format a new version of a protocol.</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>[GF]: Thanks for the suggestion. We can surely consider to follow the =
template of RFC7950. We are elevating the experimental RFCs to standard tra=
ck so all the changes are just about the structure, further clarification a=
nd the use of a standard wording. No new additions to the methodology have =
been made. I can write a summary of the changes after the Introduction and =
it can be a short section that reports the recommendations for the implemen=
tation included in the standard track draft.</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>Tom Petch</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; Tom Petch</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt; Tom Petch</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt; Best,</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt; Tommy &amp; Marcus</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke &lt;martin.h.=
duke@gmail.com&gt; wrote:</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Hello IPPM,</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8=
321 and </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There=
 was a feeling </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; that the update would be trivial and we could therefo=
re do it as an </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; AD sponsored document.</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the nee=
d to </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; substantially adjust the scope of these documents and=
 tweak the </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, =
but I'm a </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; non-practitioner and have driven some design changes =
with minimal </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; review. At this point I think it's important to get g=
ood IPPM </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as=
 well do the</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; (expedited) working group process so that there's no =
confusion as </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its o=
wn documents.</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; So, as first step, I invite the working group to adop=
t these two drafts:</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc83=
21bis/</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-r=
fc8321bis/&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc88=
89bis/</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-r=
fc8889bis/&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to t=
he value of </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; doing the work at all, and the general direction of t=
he drafts. I </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate=
 WGLC to shake </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; out any detailed objections, though we will take as l=
ong as we need </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; to address concerns that people have.</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of the=
se documents, </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done=
.</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reor=
ganization </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a =
diff. So here </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transit=
ion:</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;u=
rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-r</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; f</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; c8321bis-02.txt</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&a=
mp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; r</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fc8321bis-02.txt&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rf=
c8321bis-03.txt&amp;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; u rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccol=
a-rfc8321bis-03.txt</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &amp; url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt&gt;</di=
v>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;u=
rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-r</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; f</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; c8889bis-02.txt</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&a=
mp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; r</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; fc8889bis-02.txt&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rf=
c8889bis-03.txt&amp;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; u rl2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &lt;https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccol=
a-rfc8889bis-03.txt</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; &amp; url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt&gt;</di=
v>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption=
 call. If </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; people are good about reading the document during WGL=
C, I would </div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; like to think we could be done before IETF 114.</div>=
=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Your friendly Area Director,</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Martin</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</div>=
=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ippm mailing list</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; ippm@ietf.org</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt; _______________________________________________</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt; ippm mailing list</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt; ippm@ietf.org</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;&gt;&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; _______________________________________________</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; ippm mailing list</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; ippm@ietf.org</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</div>=0A=
<div>&gt; .</div>=0A=
<div>&gt;</div>=0A=
<div>&nbsp;</div>=0A=
<div>_______________________________________________</div>=0A=
<div>ippm mailing list</div>=0A=
<div>ippm@ietf.org</div>=0A=
<div>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</div>=0A=
</div></blockquote>=0A=
</body></html>=

------=_001_NextPart066174134845_=------


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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/V_91XXuc2AaTyKkE-c2RqQFxhHA>
Subject: Re: [ippm] R: [EXT]  WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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<div><span></span>Hello Mauro,</div><div><br></div><div>I am Zhenqiang Li f=
rom China Mobile. I'm interested in the solutions and considering if it is =
possible to test them in our network. Could you please give more informatio=
n about your application including the network situation, metrics monitered=
 in your network, the methods used and the results etc. Thank you very much=
.</div><div><br></div>=0A=
<div><br></div><hr style=3D"width: 210px; height: 1px;" color=3D"#b5c4df" s=
ize=3D"1" align=3D"left">=0A=
<div><span><div style=3D"MARGIN: 10px; FONT-FAMILY: verdana; FONT-SIZE: 10p=
t"><div><div style=3D"font-family: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; fo=
nt-size: 14px; line-height: 21px;">Best Regards,</div><div style=3D"font-fa=
mily: =E5=BE=AE=E8=BD=AF=E9=9B=85=E9=BB=91; font-size: 14px; line-height: 2=
1px;">Zhenqiang Li</div></div><div><br></div><div>li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com<=
/div></div></span></div>=0A=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-Top: 0px; margin-Bottom: 0px; margin-Left: 0.5e=
m"><div>&nbsp;</div><div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0p=
t;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><div style=3D"PADDING-RIGHT: 8px; PADDING-LEFT=
: 8px; FONT-SIZE: 12px;FONT-FAMILY:tahoma;COLOR:#000000; BACKGROUND: #efefe=
f; PADDING-BOTTOM: 8px; PADDING-TOP: 8px"><div><b>From:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D=
"mailto:mauro.cociglio=3D40telecomitalia.it@dmarc.ietf.org" style=3D"color:=
 blue; text-decoration: underline;">Cociglio Mauro</a></div><div><b>Date:</=
b>&nbsp;2022-04-12&nbsp;16:54</div><div><b>To:</b>&nbsp;<a href=3D"mailto:t=
pauly=3D40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;">Tommy Pauly</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"colo=
r: blue; text-decoration: underline;">IETF IPPM WG</a></div><div><b>Subject=
:</b>&nbsp;[ippm] R: [EXT]  WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis</di=
v></div></div><div><div class=3D"FoxDiv20220415162653609595">=0A=
<!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
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</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml>=0A=
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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]-->=0A=
<div class=3D"WordSection1" style=3D"page: WordSection1;">=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Hello IPPM.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">I support as coauthor these drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Telecom Italia/TIM uses these performance monitoring techniques within=
 its networks.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">BR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US">Mauro<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">__________=
___________<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Mauro Coci=
glio<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Telecom It=
alia/TIM<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Via G. Rei=
ss Romoli, 274<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">10148 - To=
rino (Italy)<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Tel.: +390=
112285028<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">Mobile: +3=
93357669751<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-GB">__________=
___________<o:p></o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN=
-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"msipfooterab480ce6" align=3D"center" style=3D"margin: 0cm; text=
-align: center; font-size: 11pt; font-family: Calibri, sans-serif;">=0A=
<span style=3D"font-size:8.0pt;font-family:&quot;TIM Sans&quot;,serif;color=
:#4472C4">TIM - Uso Interno - Tutti i diritti riservati.</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><b>Da:</b> ippm &lt;ippm-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>Per =
conto di </b>=0A=
Tommy Pauly<br>=0A=
<b>Inviato:</b> venerd=C3=AC 8 aprile 2022 02:04<br>=0A=
<b>A:</b> IETF IPPM WG &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;<br>=0A=
<b>Oggetto:</b> [EXT] [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis<o:=
p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">This email starts an adoption call for&nbsp;draft-fio=
ccola-rfc8321bis and&nbsp;draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=E2=
=80=99s emails below for details =E2=80=94 the main idea here is that we=E2=
=80=99re moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">The chairs would like to have a short amount of time =
spent in the WG processing these documents. If we adopt, we=E2=80=99d plan =
to very shortly thereafter do a working group last call.<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Please reply to this email by <b>Thursday, April 21</=
b>&nbsp;and indicate if you support adopting this document.<o:p></o:p></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Tommy &amp; Marcus<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top: 0px; margin-bottom: 5pt;">=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: =
underline;">martin.h.duke@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">You&nbsp;may recall that there was a need to progress=
 RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a fe=
eling that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an A=
D sponsored document.<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the nee=
d to substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design=
 in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner a=
nd have driven some design changes=0A=
 with minimal review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM=
 review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the (expedit=
ed) working group process so that there's no confusion as to why IPPM didn'=
t formally review an update to its=0A=
 own documents.<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">So, as first step, I invite the working group&nbsp;to=
 adopt these two drafts:<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fio=
ccola-rfc8321bis/" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fio=
ccola-rfc8889bis/" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to t=
he value of doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts.=
 I hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate&nbsp;WGLC to shake=
 out any detailed objections, though we=0A=
 will take as long as we need to address concerns that people have.<o:p></o=
:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of the=
se documents, which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.<o:p></=
o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reor=
ganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So he=
re is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:<o:p></o:p></p>=
=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc832=
1.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt" style=3D"color: blue; te=
xt-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&=
amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-=
fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt" sty=
le=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdif=
f?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321=
bis-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc888=
9.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt" style=3D"color: blue; te=
xt-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&=
amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-=
fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt" sty=
le=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdif=
f?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889=
bis-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption=
 call. If people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would l=
ike to think we could be done before IETF 114.<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Your friendly Area Director,<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">Martin<o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;">_______________________________________________<br>=
=0A=
ippm mailing list<br>=0A=
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" style=3D"color: blue; text-decoration: und=
erline;">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>=0A=
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" style=3D"color: blue=
; text-decoration: underline;">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</=
a><o:p></o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin: 0cm; font-size: 11pt; font-family: =
Calibri, sans-serif;"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>=0A=
</div>=0A=
</div>=0A=
<table><tbody><tr><td bgcolor=3D"#ffffff"><font color=3D"#000000"><pre><hr>=
<table><tbody><tr class=3D"firstRow"><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"border-col=
or: rgb(255, 255, 255); word-break: break-all;" width=3D"671"><a href=3D"ht=
tps://on.tim.it/banner-mail-dip" target=3D"_self" style=3D"color: blue; tex=
t-decoration: underline;"><img src=3D"https://risorse.tim.it/content/dam/fl=
ytoco-areapubblica-aemfe/tim_it/dem-assets/email_footer/banner-mail-tim-mag=
nifica-mobile.png" width=3D"680" height=3D"189" title=3D"" alt=3D""></a></t=
d></tr><tr><td valign=3D"top" style=3D"word-break: break-all; border-color:=
 rgb(255, 255, 255);" width=3D"671"><span style=3D"font-size: 12px;">Questo=
 messaggio e i suoi allegati sono indirizzati esclusivamente alle persone i=
ndicate. La diffusione, copia o qualsiasi altra azione derivante dalla cono=
scenza di queste informazioni sono rigorosamente vietate. Qualora abbiate r=
icevuto questo documento per errore siete cortesemente pregati di darne imm=
ediata comunicazione al mittente e di provvedere alla sua distruzione, Graz=
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From: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>
To: "li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com" <li_zhenqiang@hotmail.com>, t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>, Tommy Pauly <tpauly@apple.com>, ippm <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/ippm/imzLMclGN8KwYPFZn7_bSCJu51Q>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hi IPPM WG,

I have read the two drafts and support the adoption of them. Thanks!

Haoyu

From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Tommy Pauly
Sent: Thursday, April 7, 2022 5:04 PM
To: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis

Hello IPPM,

This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis and draft-=
fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin's emails below for details - the mai=
n idea here is that we're moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Propose=
d Standard.

The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG proces=
sing these documents. If we adopt, we'd plan to very shortly thereafter do =
a working group last call.

Please reply to this email by Thursday, April 21 and indicate if you suppor=
t adopting this document.

Best,
Tommy & Marcus


On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com<mailto:mar=
tin.h.duke@gmail.com>> wrote:

Hello IPPM,

You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from E=
xperimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update would=
 be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.

I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially adj=
ust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The change=
s are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven some de=
sign changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's important to g=
et good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do =
the (expedited) working group process so that there's no confusion as to wh=
y IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.

So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/<https://nam11.s=
afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2=
Fdoc%2Fdraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei=
.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%=
7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC=
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DoECSW4n009zIYjG=
lr%2FPtPmiaDPGVvkvbMGWdzsT7nTo%3D&reserved=3D0>
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/<https://nam11.s=
afelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2=
Fdoc%2Fdraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis%2F&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei=
.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%=
7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLC=
JQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DhXAMYdvYnrhdfoX=
EIFiSZf9Hor%2BuOWKo6uq45dg9JH0%3D&reserved=3D0>
Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing the =
work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up t=
he adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed objection=
s, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns that people h=
ave.

I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which ar=
e not long, to get a sense of what we've done.

For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between dra=
ft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of diffs t=
hat exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc83=
21bis-02.txt<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A=
%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Drfc8321.txt%26url2%3Ddraft-fioccola-r=
fc8321bis-02.txt&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc2=
42d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730=
421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT=
iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DhWlkpw5E%2B98KmFfLnLUw1aKF%2Fo%2FJ=
y5LjHJW4wISmU18%3D&reserved=3D0>
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outl=
ook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Ddraft-fioccola=
-rfc8321bis-03.txt%26url2%3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt&data=3D04%7C01=
%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300=
0&sdata=3DPjrHjyH6oLUklNrjgm%2BI1J045e8x1HYCHiCSuqO7SEA%3D&reserved=3D0>

https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc88=
89bis-02.txt<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A=
%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Drfc8889.txt%26url2%3Ddraft-fioccola-r=
fc8889bis-02.txt&data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc2=
42d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730=
421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBT=
iI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=3DaTkTw9UyCxjHc5v%2BnYNEd2ZrmiDJyKgK=
xTcvGorzyVY%3D&reserved=3D0>
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt<https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outl=
ook.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Ddraft-fioccola=
-rfc8889bis-03.txt%26url2%3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt&data=3D04%7C01=
%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2=
a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb=
3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C300=
0&sdata=3DVnoUWLuKBUpBDdOBTefAYVM7f0j2qsIzwNlzRUGXNaE%3D&reserved=3D0>

I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are g=
ood about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we could =
be done before IETF 114.

Your friendly Area Director,
Martin

_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org<mailto:ippm@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi IPPM WG,<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I have read the two drafts and support the adoption =
of them. Thanks!<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Haoyu <o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>From:</b> ippm &lt;ippm-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>O=
n Behalf Of </b>
Tommy Pauly<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, April 7, 2022 5:04 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> IETF IPPM WG &lt;ippm@ietf.org&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis<o:p></o:=
p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This email starts an adoption call for&nbsp;draft-fi=
occola-rfc8321bis and&nbsp;draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin&#82=
17;s emails below for details &#8212; the main idea here is that we&#8217;r=
e moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.<o:p></o:p></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The chairs would like to have a short amount of time=
 spent in the WG processing these documents. If we adopt, we&#8217;d plan t=
o very shortly thereafter do a working group last call.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Please reply to this email by <b>Thursday, April 21<=
/b>&nbsp;and indicate if you support adopting this document.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Best,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Tommy &amp; Marcus<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><br>
<br>
<o:p></o:p></p>
<blockquote style=3D"margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com">martin.h.duke@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<=
o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hello IPPM,<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">You&nbsp;may recall that there was a need to progres=
s RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a f=
eeling that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an =
AD sponsored document.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the ne=
ed to substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the desig=
n in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner =
and have driven some design changes
 with minimal review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM=
 review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the (expedit=
ed) working group process so that there's no confusion as to why IPPM didn'=
t formally review an update to its
 own documents.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">So, as first step, I invite the working group&nbsp;t=
o adopt these two drafts:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-fioccola-rfc8=
321bis%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d=
6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421=
380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6=
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DoECSW4n009zIYjGlr%2FPtPmiaDPGVvkv=
bMGWdzsT7nTo%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fi=
occola-rfc8321bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fdatatracker.ietf.org%2Fdoc%2Fdraft-fioccola-rfc8=
889bis%2F&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d=
6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421=
380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6=
Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DhXAMYdvYnrhdfoXEIFiSZf9Hor%2BuOWK=
o6uq45dg9JH0%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fi=
occola-rfc8889bis/</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to =
the value of doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts=
. I hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate&nbsp;WGLC to shak=
e out any detailed objections, though we
 will take as long as we need to address concerns that people have.<o:p></o=
:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of th=
ese documents, which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.<o:p><=
/o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reo=
rganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So h=
ere is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:<o:p></o:p></p=
>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Drfc8321.txt%26ur=
l2%3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40fut=
urewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DhWlkp=
w5E%2B98KmFfLnLUw1aKF%2Fo%2FJy5LjHJW4wISmU18%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://w=
ww.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis=
-02.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Ddraft-fioccola-r=
fc8321bis-03.txt%26url2%3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt&amp;data=3D04%7C=
01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ=
sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3=
000&amp;sdata=3DPjrHjyH6oLUklNrjgm%2BI1J045e8x1HYCHiCSuqO7SEA%3D&amp;reserv=
ed=3D0">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.tx=
t&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Drfc8889.txt%26ur=
l2%3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt&amp;data=3D04%7C01%7Chaoyu.song%40fut=
urewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8ff2a3b240189c753a1d559=
1fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAw=
MDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&amp;sdata=3DaTkTw=
9UyCxjHc5v%2BnYNEd2ZrmiDJyKgKxTcvGorzyVY%3D&amp;reserved=3D0">https://www.i=
etf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.=
txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outloo=
k.com/?url=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.ietf.org%2Frfcdiff%3Furl1%3Ddraft-fioccola-r=
fc8889bis-03.txt%26url2%3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt&amp;data=3D04%7C=
01%7Chaoyu.song%40futurewei.com%7C8236a5773bc242d6e65608da18f345c6%7C0fee8f=
f2a3b240189c753a1d5591fedc%7C1%7C1%7C637849730421380465%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZ=
sb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3=
000&amp;sdata=3DVnoUWLuKBUpBDdOBTefAYVM7f0j2qsIzwNlzRUGXNaE%3D&amp;reserved=
=3D0">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&=
amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoptio=
n call. If people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would =
like to think we could be done before IETF 114.<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Your friendly Area Director,<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Martin<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">_______________________________________________<br>
ippm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm">https://www.ietf.org=
/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_BY3PR13MB47872EAA95FA1F7E70E329E69AEE9BY3PR13MB4787namp_--


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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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From: "Yangfan(Fan,IP Standards)" <shirley.yangfan@huawei.com>
To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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From: Gyan Mishra <hayabusagsm@gmail.com>
Date: Sat, 16 Apr 2022 09:45:06 -0400
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Cc: IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Dear IPPM WG

I have read the two drafts and support WG adoption.

Regards

Gyan

On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 8:03 PM Tommy Pauly <tpauly=3D
40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org> wrote:

> Hello IPPM,
>
> This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis
> and draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=E2=80=99s emails below f=
or details
> =E2=80=94 the main idea here is that we=E2=80=99re moving two IPPM RFCs f=
rom Experimental
> to Proposed Standard.
>
> The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG
> processing these documents. If we adopt, we=E2=80=99d plan to very shortl=
y
> thereafter do a working group last call.
>
> Please reply to this email by *Thursday, April 21* and indicate if you
> support adopting this document.
>
> Best,
> Tommy & Marcus
>
> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hello IPPM,
>
> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from
> Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update
> would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document=
.
>
> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially
> adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The
> changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven
> some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's
> important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we
> might as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there's no
> confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own
> documents.
>
> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing th=
e
> work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up
> the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed
> objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns th=
at
> people have.
>
> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which
> are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>
> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between
> draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of
> diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8321bis-02.txt
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc=
8889bis-02.txt
>
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=
=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>
> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are
> good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we cou=
ld
> be done before IETF 114.
>
> Your friendly Area Director,
> Martin
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>
--=20

<http://www.verizon.com/>

*Gyan Mishra*

*Network Solutions A**rchitect *

*Email gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com <gyan.s.mishra@verizon.com>*



*M 301 502-1347*

--000000000000cb91d205dcc5bc36
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">Dear IPPM WG</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D=
"auto">I have read the two drafts and support WG adoption.</div><div dir=3D=
"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Regards=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br=
></div><div dir=3D"auto">Gyan</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 7, 2022 at 8:03 PM Tommy Paul=
y &lt;tpauly=3D<a href=3D"mailto:40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org">40apple.com@dm=
arc.ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" styl=
e=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div st=
yle=3D"word-wrap:break-word;line-break:after-white-space">Hello IPPM,<div><=
br></div><div>This email starts an adoption call for=C2=A0draft-fioccola-rf=
c8321bis and=C2=A0draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin=E2=80=99s em=
ails below for details =E2=80=94 the main idea here is that we=E2=80=99re m=
oving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.</div><div><br><=
/div><div>The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the=
 WG processing these documents. If we adopt, we=E2=80=99d plan to very shor=
tly thereafter do a working group last call.</div><div><br></div><div>Pleas=
e reply to this email by <b>Thursday, April 21</b>=C2=A0and indicate if you=
 support adopting this document.</div><div><br></div><div>Best,</div><div>T=
ommy &amp; Marcus<br><div><br><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>On Apr 7, 2022=
, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:martin.h.duke@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">martin.h.duke@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:</div><br><div><div d=
ir=3D"ltr">Hello IPPM,<div><br></div><div>You=C2=A0may recall that there wa=
s a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Stan=
dard. There was a feeling that the update would be trivial and we could the=
refore do it as an AD sponsored document.</div><div><br></div><div>I&#39;ve=
 done 3 rounds of AD review and I&#39;ve seen the need to substantially adj=
ust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The change=
s are not revolutionary, but I&#39;m a non-practitioner and have driven som=
e design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it&#39;s import=
ant to get good IPPM review; if we&#39;re going to do that anyway, we might=
 as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there&#39;s no co=
nfusion as to why IPPM didn&#39;t formally review an update to its own docu=
ments.</div><div><br></div><div>So, as first step, I invite the working gro=
up=C2=A0to adopt these two drafts:</div><div><a href=3D"https://datatracker=
.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatra=
cker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/" target=3D"_blan=
k">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/</a><br></div=
><div>Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doin=
g the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follo=
w up the adoption call with an immediate=C2=A0WGLC to shake out any detaile=
d objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns th=
at people have.</div><div><br></div><div>I invite you to consult the change=
logs on both of these documents, which are not long, to get a sense of what=
 we&#39;ve done.</div><div><br></div><div>For those of you who like diffs, =
there was a big reorganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to fol=
low in a diff. So here is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transi=
tion:</div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&=
amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.=
ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8321.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02=
.txt</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft=
-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321b=
is-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt</a><br></div><div><br=
></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;=
url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf=
.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Drfc8889.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt=
</a><br></div><div><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fio=
ccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt" target=
=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-0=
3.txt&amp;url2=3Ddraft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt</a><br></div><div><br></d=
iv><div>I believe it&#39;s up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If =
people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to thi=
nk we could be done before IETF 114.</div><div><br></div><div>Your friendly=
 Area Director,</div><div>Martin</div><div><br></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>ippm mailing list<br><a =
href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a><br><a hre=
f=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" target=3D"_blank">https://=
www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><br></div></blockquote></div><br></di=
v></div>_______________________________________________<br>
ippm mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">ippm@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm" rel=3D"noreferrer" t=
arget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div d=
ir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div dir=3D"l=
tr"><div><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34)"><a href=3D"http://www.verizon.com=
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G DS&quot;,Arial,sans-serif;line-height:13px;color:black"><b>Gyan Mishra</b=
></p><p style=3D"color:rgb(34,34,34);margin:0px;line-height:13px"><font fac=
e=3D"georgia, serif" style=3D"color:black;font-size:1em"><i>Network Solutio=
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:13px"><i style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13px"><font face=3D"georgia, =
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To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Giuseppe Fioccola'" <giuseppe.fioccola=40huawei.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "'t petch'" <ietfa@btconnect.com>, "'Tommy Pauly'" <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "'IETF IPPM WG'" <ippm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
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Hi, All:
I support these two documents' adoptions.
And I also concur with the discussion conclusion, that there should be one
summary of the changes at the begin of the documents.

And, once it is adopted ,should the contents in
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark-13 be
simplified? It seems that that document describes also all the methodologies
again?


Best Regards

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

-----Original Message-----
From: ippm-bounces@ietf.org <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Giuseppe
Fioccola
Sent: Saturday, April 9, 2022 2:05 AM
To: t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>; Tommy Pauly
<tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis

Hi Tom,
Please see my replies inline tagged as [GF].

Regards,

Giuseppe 

-----Original Message-----
From: t petch <ietfa@btconnect.com>
Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 5:37 PM
To: Giuseppe Fioccola <giuseppe.fioccola@huawei.com>; Tommy Pauly
<tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis

On 08/04/2022 10:52, Giuseppe Fioccola wrote:
> Hi Tom,
> Thank you for your feedback.
> Please find my answers inline tagged as [GF].
>
> Regards,
>
> Giuseppe
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: ippm <ippm-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of t petch
> Sent: Friday, April 8, 2022 11:27 AM
> To: Tommy Pauly <tpauly=40apple.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; IETF IPPM WG 
> <ippm@ietf.org>
> Subject: Re: [ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
>
> On 08/04/2022 09:42, t petch wrote:
>> On 08/04/2022 01:03, Tommy Pauly wrote:
>>> Hello IPPM,
<snip>
>>
>> 'this document'
>> Which document?
>>
>> Please post subsequent e-mails about one I-D only with the subject 
>> line indicating which, else I will get confused (and may well confuse 
>> others with my comments).
>
> I note that 'this document' fails to give any explanation of why it exists
(beyond the boiler-plate that tells me it is obsoleting)?
>
> Why?  I may know the answer but think it wrong to assume that others will.
>
> This should be in the Introduction and there should also be a 'Changes
from ...'
>
> [GF]: Sure. I will add the explanation in the introduction of both
RFC8321bis and RFC8889bis. It is to elevate the Experimental RFCs to
Standard Track. There are several implementations (e.g.
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-ipv6-alt-mark/  that need a
normative reference for the methodology. Our initial approach was to use the
informative reference but it was not accepted by the IESG. Therefore it was
suggested to obsolete the experimental docs with new standard docs.

Yes.  I have followed the thread and did voice my support for new RFC which
I am glad to see.  And below ...

[GF]: Thank you for the support.

> Please note that, for both drafts, you can find the Changes Log in
Appendix with all the modifications from the original RFCs for each version.
  ... Yes but that is not quite what I had in mind.   Think of an 
implementor who has accurately implemented RFC8321; they need to know if and
how to change the code, they do not want a blow-by-blow account of every
text change, how the RFC-to-be came to be what it is, just a statement of
what needs changing where (if anything); and an Appendix labelled 'Changes
Log', while helpful for the WG, is a candidate for excision by the RFC
Editor whereas I am thinking of an Informative appendix that is referenced
by the Introduction - 'Appendix X contains a list of technical changes from
RFC8321'. Look at RFC7950; this lists the changes from RFC6020 and, at the
insistence of the AD, the list was split into NBC and BC and was put up
front.  Your changes are likely minor but I think that RFC7950 is a template
of how to format a new version of a protocol.

[GF]: Thanks for the suggestion. We can surely consider to follow the
template of RFC7950. We are elevating the experimental RFCs to standard
track so all the changes are just about the structure, further clarification
and the use of a standard wording. No new additions to the methodology have
been made. I can write a summary of the changes after the Introduction and
it can be a short section that reports the recommendations for the
implementation included in the standard track draft.

Tom Petch

> Tom Petch
>
>>
>> Tom Petch
>>
>>> Best,
>>> Tommy & Marcus
>>>
>>>> On Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com>
wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hello IPPM,
>>>>
>>>> You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and
>>>> RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling 
>>>> that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an 
>>>> AD sponsored document.
>>>>
>>>> I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to 
>>>> substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the 
>>>> design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a 
>>>> non-practitioner and have driven some design changes with minimal 
>>>> review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM 
>>>> review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the
>>>> (expedited) working group process so that there's no confusion as 
>>>> to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.
>>>>
>>>> So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two
drafts:
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/>
>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
>>>> <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/>
>>>> Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of 
>>>> doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I 
>>>> hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake 
>>>> out any detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need 
>>>> to address concerns that people have.
>>>>
>>>> I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, 
>>>> which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
>>>>
>>>> For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization 
>>>> between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here 
>>>> is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-r
>>>> f
>>>> c8321bis-02.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-
>>>> r
>>>> fc8321bis-02.txt>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&
>>>> u rl2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt
>>>> & url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-r
>>>> f
>>>> c8889bis-02.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-
>>>> r
>>>> fc8889bis-02.txt>
>>>>
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&
>>>> u rl2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
>>>> <https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt
>>>> & url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If 
>>>> people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would 
>>>> like to think we could be done before IETF 114.
>>>>
>>>> Your friendly Area Director,
>>>> Martin
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> ippm mailing list
>>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> ippm mailing list
>>> ippm@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
>>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> ippm mailing list
> ippm@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm
> .
>

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Subject: Re: [ippm] =?utf-8?q?WG_adoption_call_for_RFC8321bis_and_8889bis?=
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Hi all,

I support wg adoption of RFC8321bis.
I have no opinion on RFC8889bis because I don't know any implementation of it.

At the same time, I reserve my opinion on reducing the implementation options specified by this document, because IMHO that's a burden to the vendor, operator or even the general reader.
- In section 3.1, two implementation options "flow-based" and "link-based" are provided, I know only "flow-based" implementation.
- In section 3.2, three implementation options "single-marking methodology", "mean delay" and "double-marking methodology" are provided, I know only "double-marking methodology" implementation.

Best Regards,
Xiao Min

------------------原始邮件------------------
发件人：TommyPauly
收件人：IETF IPPM WG;
日 期 ：2022年04月08日 08:04
主 题 ：[ippm] WG adoption call for RFC8321bis and 8889bis
_______________________________________________
ippm mailing list
ippm@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm

Hello IPPM,
This email starts an adoption call for draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis and draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis. Please see Martin’s emails below for details — the main idea here is that we’re moving two IPPM RFCs from Experimental to Proposed Standard.
The chairs would like to have a short amount of time spent in the WG processing these documents. If we adopt, we’d plan to very shortly thereafter do a working group last call.
Please reply to this email by Thursday, April 21 and indicate if you support adopting this document.
Best,
Tommy & MarcusOn Apr 7, 2022, at 1:16 PM, Martin Duke <martin.h.duke@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello IPPM,
You may recall that there was a need to progress RFC8321 and RFC8889 from Experimental to Proposed Standard. There was a feeling that the update would be trivial and we could therefore do it as an AD sponsored document.
I've done 3 rounds of AD review and I've seen the need to substantially adjust the scope of these documents and tweak the design in places. The changes are not revolutionary, but I'm a non-practitioner and have driven some design changes with minimal review. At this point I think it's important to get good IPPM review; if we're going to do that anyway, we might as well do the (expedited) working group process so that there's no confusion as to why IPPM didn't formally review an update to its own documents.
So, as first step, I invite the working group to adopt these two drafts:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis/
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis/
Any objections to adoption, as always, should be to the value of doing the work at all, and the general direction of the drafts. I hope to follow up the adoption call with an immediate WGLC to shake out any detailed objections, though we will take as long as we need to address concerns that people have.
I invite you to consult the changelogs on both of these documents, which are not long, to get a sense of what we've done.
For those of you who like diffs, there was a big reorganization between draft-02 and -03 that is hard to follow in a diff. So here is a set of diffs that exclude the -02 to -03 transition:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8321.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-02.txt
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8321bis-04.txt
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=rfc8889.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-02.txt
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-03.txt&url2=draft-fioccola-rfc8889bis-04.txt
I believe it's up to the chairs to start the adoption call. If people are good about reading the document during WGLC, I would like to think we could be done before IETF 114.
Your friendly Area Director,
Martin
_______________________________________________ippm mailing listippm@ietf.orghttps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ippm


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Thread-Topic: [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:38:38 +0000
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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "Shwetha Bhandari" <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:24:06 +0000
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From: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>
To: "mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>, "Shwetha Bhandari" <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
CC: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, "sfc-chairs@ietf.org" <sfc-chairs@ietf.org>, "sfc@ietf.org" <sfc@ietf.org>, "ippm@ietf.org" <ippm@ietf.org>, James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>, "draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 12:29:17 +0000
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From: Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
Date: Thu, 14 Apr 2022 18:18:05 +0530
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To: Med Boucadair <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
Cc: "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne@cisco.com>, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>, "Frank Brockners (fbrockne)" <fbrockne=40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>, sfc-chairs@ietf.org, sfc@ietf.org, ippm@ietf.org, James Guichard <james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>, draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
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Subject: Re: [ippm] [sfc] WGLC for https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
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--00000000000055313905dc9cb568
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Hi Med,

Why does reference to RFC 8300 and any update to it, not work? Doesn't
I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet update 8300 and anyone implementing this will be
able to find 8300 and any RFCs that update it and apply the rules?

Thanks
Shwetha

On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 6:08 PM <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com> wrote:

> Re-,
>
>
>
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh includes OAM data (likely with user data) but
> there is an ambiguity in 8300 to whether this is considered as an OAM
> packet. Please refer to the SFC archives where this was discussed.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne@cisco.com>
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 14 avril 2022 14:29
> *=C3=80 :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; Sh=
wetha
> Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc :* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>=
;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Objet :* RE: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!P-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9a=
czyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UTEcp7d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$>
>
>
>
> Forgot to add: A clause like " The O-bit MUST be handled following the
> rules in and any updates to [RFC8300]=E2=80=9C simply states the obvious.
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh does not touch or redefine the O-bit =E2=80=93 he=
nce the
> statement is at best optional. The reader might even wonder why the obvio=
us
> is re-stated in the document. My preference is still to avoid any
> mentioning of the O-bit in draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh.
>
>
>
> Frank
>
>
>
> *From:* Frank Brockners (fbrockne)
> *Sent:* Thursday, 14 April 2022 14:24
> *To:* mohamed.boucadair@orange.com; Shwetha Bhandari <
> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!P-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9a=
czyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UTEcp7d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$>
>
>
>
> IMHO it would be better to refer to directly RFC8300 =E2=80=93 since this=
 is a
> stable reference; and it allows us to finish up draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh a=
nd
> get the code points allocated. I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet is early stages an=
d
> still evolving.
>
>
>
> Cheers, Frank
>
>
>
> *From:* mohamed.boucadair@orange.com <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>
> *Sent:* Thursday, 14 April 2022 13:28
> *To:* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>; Greg Mirsky <
> gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc:* Frank Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Subject:* RE: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!P-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9a=
czyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UTEcp7d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$>
>
>
>
> Hi Shwetha,
>
>
>
> I prefer we go for an explicit reference to I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet rathe=
r
> than =E2=80=9Cany update to RFC8300=E2=80=9D. This is consistent with the=
 usage in the
> other OAM draft.
>
>
>
> Thank you.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> Med
>
>
>
> *De :* Shwetha Bhandari <shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com>
> *Envoy=C3=A9 :* jeudi 14 avril 2022 12:06
> *=C3=80 :* Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com>
> *Cc :* BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET <mohamed.boucadair@orange.com>; Frank
> Brockners (fbrockne) <fbrockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org>;
> sfc-chairs@ietf.org; sfc@ietf.org; ippm@ietf.org; James Guichard <
> james.n.guichard@futurewei.com>; Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>;
> draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org
> *Objet :* Re: [sfc] WGLC for
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-=
sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!P-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9a=
czyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UTEcp7d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$>
>
>
>
> Hi Med, Greg,
>
>
>
> How about this text :
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be handled following the rules in and any updates
> to [RFC8300] ."
>
>
>
> Given that I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet  will update RF8300 and there could be
> others in future?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:24 PM Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote=
:
>
> Hi Shwetha,
>
> I believe that the text you've quoted is helpful. I would suggest changin=
g
> references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet] throughout that
> paragraph.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Greg
>
>
>
> On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari <
> shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com> wrote:
>
> Med,
>
>
>
> Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had before the latest
> revision:
>
> *4.2 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr=
aft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh-06*section-4.2__;Iw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy7=
4K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpJPfzrv=
I$>.  IOAM and the use of the NSH O-bit*
>
>
>
>    [RFC8300] defines an "O bit" for OAM packets.  Per [RFC8300 <https://u=
rldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45=
to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUz=
WfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpEB5AbbE$>] the O
>
>    bit must be set for OAM packets and must not be set for non-OAM
>
>    packets.  Packets with IOAM data included MUST follow this
>
>    definition, i.e. the O bit MUST NOT be set for regular customer
>
>    traffic which also carries IOAM data and the O bit MUST be set for
>
>    OAM packets which carry only IOAM data without any regular data
>
>    payload.
>
>
>
> This was removed as per the discussion in this thread. Please check
> https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srM=
it5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx3=
5STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIp-CeLfeA$>
>
> It looks like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM
> packet to include the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next
> protocol header chain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to updat=
e
> the RFC8300.
>
> Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintroduce the above text =
?
>
> Thanks,
> Shwetha
>
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
>
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
>
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
>
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
>
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
>
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
>
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
>
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
>
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
>
> Thank you.
>
> _________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confid=
entielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez re=
cu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o=
u falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged i=
nformation that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
> If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and de=
lete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee=
n modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
>

--00000000000055313905dc9cb568
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi=C2=A0Med,<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"=
auto">Why does reference to RFC 8300 and any update to it, not work? Doesn&=
#39;t=C2=A0</div>I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet update 8300 and anyone implementin=
g this will be able to find 8300 and any RFCs that update it and apply the =
rules?</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks</div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Shwetha<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div di=
r=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Thu, Apr 14, 2022, 6:08 PM  &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>&g=
t; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 =
.8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"FR" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break-wo=
rd">
<div class=3D"m_-2801050151810708656WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Re-,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh includes OAM data (likely with user =
data) but there is an ambiguity in 8300 to whether this is considered as an=
 OAM packet. Please refer
 to the SFC archives where this was discussed. <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:fbrockne@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">fbro=
ckne@cisco.com</a>&gt; <br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> jeudi 14 avril 2022 14:29<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:moha=
med.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">mohamed.bouc=
adair@orange.com</a>&gt;; Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bh=
andari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">shwetha.bhanda=
ri@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt=
;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;fbrockne=3D<a href=3D"mailt=
o:40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">40cisco.=
com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:s=
fc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=
=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ippm@ietf.or=
g</a>; James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.n.guichard@futurewei.com"=
 target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">james.n.guichard@futurewei.com</a>&gt=
;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mai=
lto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> RE: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!P-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9aczyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UT=
Ecp7d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https=
://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Forgot to add: A clause like &q=
uot;
</span><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">The O-bit MUST b=
e handled following the rules in=C2=A0and any updates to=C2=A0[RFC8300]</sp=
an><span lang=3D"EN-US">=E2=80=9C simply states the obvious. draft-ietf-sfc=
-ioam-nsh does not touch or redefine
 the O-bit =E2=80=93 hence the statement is at best optional. The reader mi=
ght even wonder why the obvious is re-stated in the document. My preference=
 is still to avoid any mentioning of the O-bit in draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh.<=
u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Frank<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> Frank Brockners (fbrockne)
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 14 April 2022 14:24<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a>; Shwetha Bhandari &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;; Greg Mirsky &lt;<=
a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer=
">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne=3D40ci=
sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">fbrockne=3D40c=
isco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
>sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer">
sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">ippm@ietf.org</a>; James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.=
n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">james.n.guic=
hard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.p=
hd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!P=
-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9aczyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UTEcp7=
d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">IMHO it would be better to refe=
r to directly RFC8300 =E2=80=93 since this is a stable reference; and it al=
lows us to finish up draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh and get the code points alloca=
ted. I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet
 is early stages and still evolving.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US">Cheers, Frank<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span lang=3D"EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang=
=3D"EN-US"> <a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blan=
k" rel=3D"noreferrer">
mohamed.boucadair@orange.com</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.boucadair@or=
ange.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">mohamed.boucadair@orange.com=
</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, 14 April 2022 13:28<br>
<b>To:</b> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughts=
pot.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.=
com</a>&gt;; Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbrockne=3D40ci=
sco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">fbrockne=3D40c=
isco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
>sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer">
sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">ippm@ietf.org</a>; James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.=
n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">james.n.guic=
hard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.p=
hd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> RE: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!P=
-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9aczyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UTEcp7=
d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Hi Shwetha,
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
<u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">I prefer we go for an explicit reference to I-D.ietf-sfc-oam=
-packet rather than =E2=80=9Cany update to RFC8300=E2=80=9D. This is consis=
tent with the usage in the other OAM
 draft.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Thank you. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;">Med<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-family:&quot;Cour=
ier New&quot;"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b>De=C2=A0:</b> Shwetha Bhandari &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b>Envoy=C3=A9=C2=A0:</b> jeudi 14 avril 2022 12:06<br>
<b>=C3=80=C2=A0:</b> Greg Mirsky &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.co=
m" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">gregimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc=C2=A0:</b> BOUCADAIR Mohamed INNOV/NET &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:mohamed.=
boucadair@orange.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">mohamed.boucadai=
r@orange.com</a>&gt;; Frank Brockners (fbrockne) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:fbro=
ckne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">fbr=
ockne=3D40cisco.com@dmarc.ietf.org</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:sfc-chairs@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer"=
>sfc-chairs@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:sfc@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"=
 rel=3D"noreferrer">
sfc@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:ippm@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D=
"noreferrer">ippm@ietf.org</a>; James Guichard &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:james.=
n.guichard@futurewei.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">james.n.guic=
hard@futurewei.com</a>&gt;; Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.p=
hd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.co=
m</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Objet=C2=A0:</b> Re: [sfc] WGLC for <a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3=
/__https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5=
uY!P-r3UTstV56mLT678QmjnilBnxUfgnF62GGWB1KzZc9aczyFl44k8Ug9OrmNYsuFT09oX0UT=
Ecp7d4J6cmU45CEFXUZ4y_RxQ0E9Fg$" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-sfc-ioam-nsh/</a><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Med, Greg,=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How about this text :<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
=E2=80=9CThe O-bit MUST be handled following the rules in=C2=A0and any upda=
tes to=C2=A0[RFC8300]=C2=A0.&quot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=
Given that=C2=A0</span>I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-packet=C2=A0 will update RF8300 and=
 there could be others in future?<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 9:24 PM Greg Mirsky &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:gregimirsky@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">g=
regimirsky@gmail.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Shwetha,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I believe that the text you&#39;ve quoted is helpful=
. I would suggest changing references from [RFC8300] to [I-D.ietf-sfc-oam-p=
acket] throughout that paragraph.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Regards,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Greg<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Tue, Apr 12, 2022 at 7:56 AM Shwetha Bhandari &lt=
;<a href=3D"mailto:shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">shwetha.bhandari@thoughtspot.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></=
u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0cm;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Med,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Thanks for the details: this is exactly what we had =
before the latest revision:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<pre style=3D"break-before:page"><b><span style=3D"color:black"><a href=3D"=
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf=
-sfc-ioam-nsh-06*section-4.2__;Iw!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QDA6E=
WJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIpJPfzrvI$" targ=
et=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">4.2</a>.=C2=A0 IOAM and the use of the NSH=
 O-bit</span></b><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC8300] defines an &quot;O =
bit&quot; for OAM packets.=C2=A0 Per [<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/=
__https:/datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc8300__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y=
_-Sindy74K4QDA6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FO=
IpEB5AbbE$" title=3D"&quot;Network Service Header (NSH)&quot;" target=3D"_b=
lank" rel=3D"noreferrer">RFC8300</a>] the O<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 bit must be set for OAM packe=
ts and must not be set for non-OAM<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 packets.=C2=A0 Packets with I=
OAM data included MUST follow this<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 definition, i.e. the O bit MU=
ST NOT be set for regular customer<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 traffic which also carries IO=
AM data and the O bit MUST be set for<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 OAM packets which carry only =
IOAM data without any regular data<u></u><u></u></span></pre>
<pre><span style=3D"color:black">=C2=A0=C2=A0 payload.<u></u><u></u></span>=
</pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This was removed as per the discussion in this threa=
d. Please check
<a href=3D"https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg=
/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/__;!!MZ3Fw45to5uY!NBsrzhHEf0Y_-Sindy74K4QD=
A6EWJjx35STSH-UxEi3eYIX0GVli9Sn1azrOPJVcI2qUzWfezK_1D2RpyFB_FOIp-CeLfeA$" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/sfc/srMit5zE8UseNOhxknAw_dqvj6M/</a><=
br>
<br>
It looks like we are going in a loop here. This definition of SFC OAM packe=
t to include the OAM data that comes in inner packets via the next protocol=
 header chain is introduced in draft-ietf-sfc-oam-packet to update the RFC8=
300.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Jim, What are you thoughts on this? Should we reintr=
oduce the above text ?<br>
<br>
Thanks,<br>
Shwetha<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con=
fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez=
 recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me=
ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,<u></u><u></u></pr=
e>
<pre>Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform=
e ou falsifie. Merci.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></pre>
<pre>This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege=
d information that may be protected by law;<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<=
u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and=
 delete this message and its attachments.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.<u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre>Thank you.<u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<pre>______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l&#39;expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message=
s electroniques etant susceptibles d&#39;alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
</pre></div>

</blockquote></div></div></div>

--00000000000055313905dc9cb568--

