Subject: iSCSI: support value of ?

From: Eddy Quicksall <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2002 17:28:47 -0500

Section 2.2.4 of draft 10 says:
 
The value "?" with any key has the meaning of enquiry and should be
answered with the current value or "NotUnderstood".
 
What good is this?
 
You should already know the answer as a result of login or text
negotiations.
 
Here are the only keys that can be used in FFP by the initiator:
 
1)       SendTargets - we already have defined behavior for that key and
those get the information anyway
2)       TargetName - that is IO by initiator so he can't send that key
anyway. Also, he has to already know the target.
3)       TargetAlias -  "this name MUST be communicated to the initiator
during a Login". So that is already known.
4)       InitiatorAlias - the initiator should already know his alias
5)       TargetAddress - the target is the only one that can send this in a
response
6)       MaxRecvPDULength - this should be known from the negotiations
7)       Vendor Specific - Could this be the reason? If so, lets say that so
we don't have to add a lot of silly code. Or, lets say that the response to
"?" can be "Reject" meaning that we don't support that syntax (currently,
the definition of the "Reject value" does not fit this).
 
Eddy

---

From: Eddy Quicksall <[email-masked]>
Date: Sat, 16 Feb 2002 12:54:39 -0500

Santosh,

Thanks for your response.

I agree with you. However, if we don't want to go to that extent at this
late date, can we just say it is used for vendor specific keys only?

Eddy

-----Original Message-----
From: Santosh Rao [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 3:21 PM
To: [email-masked]
Cc: [email-masked]; [email-masked]
Subject: Re: FW: iSCSI: support value of ?

Eddy,

The '?' was originally proposed as a form of Enquiry analogous to something
like a PDISC for Fibre Channel ports.

However, an Enquiry is more useful if it is a scheme to query the target for
all its supported capabilities, rather than its current value.

A query for the current negotiated value was of some use in the older login
negotiation model wherein each side independently computed the login
negotiation result. In such a model, the '?' could be used by initiators to
verify that its negotiation result was in-sync with that of the target.

With the new login negotiation model, wherein, the target computes the
result
of the negotiation and sends it back to the initiator, the initiator knows
the
current negotiated values anyway. Hence, what is more useful is a scheme to
query the target for its supported capabilities.

IMO, the '?' semantics should be modified to return the target's supported
capabilities and not its current negotiatied value.

Regards,
Santosh

>
> Well, given that the initiator should know everything (unless I missed
> something below), what good is it other than for vendor specific?
> 
> The reason I'm asking is because it seems silly to support it if it has no
> use.
> 
> Can someone give me an example of where it is needed (other than for
vendor
> specific).
> 
> Eddy
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Julian Satran [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Friday, February 15, 2002 12:30 PM
> To: Eddy Quicksall
> Subject: Re: FW: iSCSI: support value of ?
> 
>
> The same value as Enquiry in SCSI.  I heard no other comment than yours.
>
> Julo
>
>
>
> 
> Eddy Quicksall <[email-masked]>
> 14-02-02 19:51
>        
>         To:        Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL
>         cc:        
>         Subject:        FW: iSCSI: support value of ?
>
>       
>
>
> I didn't see any responses on this. Is the "?" syntax of any good other
than
> for vendor specific commands?
>  
> Eddy
>  
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Eddy Quicksall [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:29 PM
> To: ips@ece. cmu. edu (E-mail)
> Subject: iSCSI: support value of ?
>  
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> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>W=
> ell,
> given that the initiator should know everything (unless I missed =
> something
> below), what good is it other than for vendor =
> specific?<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
> ![if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>T=
> he reason
> I&#8217;m asking is because it seems silly to support it if it has no =
> use.<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
> ![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span=
> ></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>C=
> an
> someone give me an example of where it is needed (other than for vendor
> specific).<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
> ![if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'>E=
> ddy<o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal><span class=3DEmailStyle16><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;mso-bidi-font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Arial'><=
> ![if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 =
> color=3Dblack
> face=3DTahoma><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> Message-----<br>
> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>From:</span></b> Julian Satran
> [mailto:[email-masked]]<br>
> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Sent:</span></b> Friday, February =
> 15, 2002
> 12:30 PM<br>
> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>To:</span></b> Eddy Quicksall<br>
> <b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'>Subject:</span></b> Re: FW: iSCSI: =
> support
> value of ?</span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
> face=3D"Times New Roman"><span
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt'><![if =
> !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal =
> style=3D'mso-margin-top-alt:0in;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:
> 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New =
> Roman"><span
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
> </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>The same value as Enquiry in =
> SCSI. &nbsp;I
> heard no other comment than yours.</span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black'> <br>
> <br>
> </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
> 10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>Julo</span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black'> <br style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
> <![if !supportLineBreakNewLine]><br =
> style=3D'mso-special-character:line-break'>
> <![endif]></span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <table border=3D0 cellpadding=3D0 width=3D"100%" =
> style=3D'width:100.0%;mso-cellspacing:
>  1.5pt;margin-left:.5in'>
>  <tr>
>   <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
>   <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><font =
> size=3D3
>   color=3Dblack face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black;
>   mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>   </td>
>   <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
>   <p class=3DMsoNormal><b><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack =
> face=3Dsans-serif><span
>   =
> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black;font-weight:=
> bold'>Eddy
>   Quicksall &lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span></font></b><font
>   color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
>   =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>   <p><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span =
> style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;
>   font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>14-02-02 19:51</span></font><font
>   color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
>   =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>   </td>
>   <td valign=3Dtop style=3D'padding:.75pt .75pt .75pt .75pt'>
>   <p class=3DMsoNormal><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span
>   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; =
> &nbsp;
>   &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'><br>
>   </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span
>   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp; =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
>   &nbsp; To: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Julian =
> Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL</span></font><font
>   color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
>   </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span
>   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp; =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
>   &nbsp; cc: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
>   style=3D'color:black'> <br>
>   </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3Dsans-serif><span
>   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>&nbsp; =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
>   &nbsp; Subject: &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;FW: iSCSI: support value =
> of ?</span></font><font
>   color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> <br>
>   <br>
>   </span></font><font size=3D1 color=3Dblack face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:
>   7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; =
> &nbsp;</span></font><font
>   color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>   </td>
>  </tr>
> </table>
>
> <p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 =
> color=3Dblack
> face=3D"Times New Roman"><span =
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'><br>
> <br>
> </span></font><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy face=3DArial><span =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;
> font-family:Arial;color:navy'>I didn't see any responses on this. Is =
> the
> &quot;?&quot; syntax of any good other than for vendor specific =
> commands?</span></font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></f=
> ont><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>Eddy</span></fon=
> t><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dnavy =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'>&nbsp;</span></f=
> ont><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DTahoma><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Tahoma;color:black'>-----Original
> Message-----<b><span style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
> From:</span></b> Eddy Quicksall =
> [mailto:[email-masked]]<b><span
> style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
> Sent:</span></b> Wednesday, February 06, 2002 5:29 PM<b><span =
> style=3D'font-weight:
> bold'><br>
> To:</span></b> ips@ece. cmu. edu (E-mail)<b><span =
> style=3D'font-weight:bold'><br>
> Subject:</span></b> iSCSI: support value of ?</span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></=
> font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Section 2.2.4 =
> of draft
> 10 says:</span></font><font color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> =
> </span></font><font
> color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></=
> font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DCourier><span
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>The value
> &quot;?&quot; with any key has the meaning of enquiry and should =
> be</span></font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DCourier><span
> style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;font-family:Courier;color:black'>answered =
> with the
> current value or &quot;NotUnderstood&quot;.</span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></=
> font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>What good is =
> this?</span></font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></=
> font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>You should =
> already know
> the answer as a result of login or text =
> negotiations.</span></font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></=
> font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Here are the =
> only keys
> that can be used in FFP by the initiator:</span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;
> mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></=
> font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>1)</span></font=
> ><font
> size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;color:black'> =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'>SendTargets &#8211;
> we already have defined behavior for that key and those get the =
> information
> anyway </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:
> windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>2)</span></font=
> ><font
> size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;color:black'> =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'>TargetName &#8211;
> that is IO by initiator so he can't send that key anyway. Also, he has =
> to
> already know the target. </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>3)</span></font=
> ><font
> size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;color:black'> =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'>TargetAlias &#8211;
> &nbsp;&quot;this name MUST be communicated to the initiator during a
> Login&quot;. So that is already known. </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>4)</span></font=
> ><font
> size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;color:black'> =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'>InitiatorAlias
> &#8211; the initiator should already know his alias </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>5)</span></font=
> ><font
> size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;color:black'> =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'>TargetAddress
> &#8211; the target is the only one that can send this in a response =
> </span></font><font
> color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>6)</span></font=
> ><font
> size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;color:black'> =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'>MaxRecvPDULength
> &#8211; this should be known from the negotiations </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>7)</span></font=
> ><font
> size=3D1 color=3Dblack><span style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;color:black'> =
> &nbsp; &nbsp;
> &nbsp; </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black'>Vendor
> Specific &#8211; Could this be the reason? If so, lets say that so we =
> don't have to
> add a lot of silly code. Or, lets say that the response to =
> &quot;?&quot; can be
> &quot;Reject&quot; meaning that we don't support that syntax =
> (currently, the
> definition of the &quot;Reject value&quot; does not fit this). =
> </span></font><font
> color=3Dblack><span =
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;</span></=
> font><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> <p style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D2 color=3Dblack =
> face=3DArial><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>Eddy</span></fo=
> nt><font
> color=3Dblack><span style=3D'color:black'> </span></font><font =
> color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'color:black;mso-color-alt:windowtext'><o:p></o:p></span></font>=
> </p>
>
> </div>
>
> </body>
>
> </html>
>
> ------_=_NextPart_001_01C1B64A.37A65F90--
>

--
##################################
Santosh Rao
Software Design Engineer,
HP-UX iSCSI Driver Team,
Hewlett Packard, Cupertino.
email : [email-masked]
Phone : 408-447-3751
##################################

---

From: "LEMAY,KEVIN (A-Roseville,ex1)" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 09:48:27 -0700

No objection here to kill it. I have yet to see anyone one use it at any of
the plugfests and I have no use for it.
 
Kevin Lemay
Agilent Technologies
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Julian Satran [mailto:[email-masked]]
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2002 8:38 AM
To: [email-masked]
Subject: RE: FW: FW: iSCSI: support value of ?
Importance: High

If nobody speaks up I will terminate the use of ?  Julo 
----- Forwarded by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 20-02-02 18:34 ----- 

	"Robert D. Russell" <[email-masked]> 

20-02-02 17:52 

        To:        Eddy Quicksall <[email-masked]> 
        cc:        "ips@ece. cmu. edu (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>, Julian
Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL 
        Subject:        RE: FW: FW: iSCSI: support value of ? 

Julian:

I first brought up the subject of eliminating ? last December.
Your reply is attached below.
Perhaps this latest round of e-mail postings is enough to
support my contention that ? should be eliminated??
Thanks,
Bob Russell

>
> From [email-masked]  Sat Dec 22 01:57:36 2001
> To: "Robert D. Russell" <[email-masked]>
> Cc: [email-masked]
> Subject: Re: iSCSI: enquiry key
>
> Bob,
>
> "Robert D. Russell" <[email-masked]> wrote on 20-12-2001 12:48:31:
>
> > Julian:
> >
> ... snip snip ...
> >
> >    My personal opinion is that "key=?" seems fairly useless -- if they
> are
> >    to operate correctly, both sides of a connection really have to know
> the
> >    values of all the keys at all times, and the rules for negotiation
> make
> >    it clear how and when these values change.  The only real "enquiry"
> >    situation is when an initiator is attempting to discover targets, and
> >    this is handled completely differently by the use of "SendTargets".
> >    So when is there a use for either side to send "key=?".  Unless there
> >    is a clear example where this is useful, we should eliminate it and
> thus
> >    remove another special case during parameter processing.
> >
> I am not sure that we have all the use scenarios to afford removing it

On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Eddy Quicksall wrote:

> From: Mallikarjun C. [mailto:[email-masked]]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 19, 2002 3:19 PM
> To: Eddy Quicksall
> Subject: Re: FW: FW: iSCSI: support value of ?
>
> Eddy,
>
> [ Sorry, I was off on long weekend. ]
>
> I tend to concur with you guys.  I do not see
> a good usage scenario for "?" at the moment.
> If we add in the support in MIB (if it isn't
> there already) for querying the default capabilities
> of an iSCSI entity, that should be completely
> adequate to retire the "?" feature.
>
> Regards.
> --
> Mallikarjun
>
>
> Mallikarjun Chadalapaka
> Networked Storage Architecture
> Network Storage Solutions Organization
> MS 5668 Hewlett-Packard, Roseville.
> [email-masked]
>
>
> Eddy Quicksall wrote:
> >
> > Mallikarjun,
> >
> > I am thinking that the value of the "?" syntax is very limited and
appears
> > to me as though it could be something that got left in from past needs.
> >
> > Do you think it has any use other than for vendor specifics? Can you
give
> me
> > an example of where it would be needed?
> >
> > Eddy
> >
> > > The reason I'm asking is because it seems silly to support it if it
has
> no
> > > 5)       TargetAddress - the target is the only one that can send this
> in
> > a
> > > response
> > > 7)       Vendor Specific - Could this be the reason? If so, lets say
> that
> > so
> > > we don't have to add a lot of silly code. Or, lets say that the
response
> > > <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > > >  <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> > > >
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> > > >  </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> > > >
</xml><![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > > >  <w:WordDocument> > > >
<w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> > > >   <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> >
> >   <w:EnvelopeVis/> > > >  </w:WordDocument> > > > </xml><![endif]-->
> > > <style>
> > > <!-- > > >  /* Font Definitions */
> > > @font-face
> > >       {font-family:Courier;
> > > ![if
> !supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span=
> > > ></p>
> > >
> > > 12.0pt;margin-left:.5in'><font size=3D3 color=3Dblack face=3D"Times
New
> > > 10.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>The same value as Enquiry
in
> > >   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>&nbsp;
&nbsp;
> > > &#8211; the initiator should already know his alias
</span></font><font

---

From: "Julian Satran" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 18:37:59 +0200

----- Forwarded by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 20-02-02 18:34 -----

Julian:

appears
give
> > However, an Enquiry is more useful if it is a scheme to query the 
target
> for
> > negotiation result. In such a model, the '?' could be used by 
initiators
> > current negotiated values anyway. Hence, what is more useful is a 
scheme
has
response
New
in
> > > style=3D'color:black'> <br 
> > >   <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if 
!supportEmptyParas]>&nbsp;<![endif]><font =
> > >   Quicksall 
&lt;[email-masked]&gt;</span></font></b><font
&nbsp;
</span></font><font

---

From: "[email-masked]" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 14:59:36 -0500

Just to highlight some of the issues that I have in my bag.

I tend to agree with Bob on this with a *if*. Anytime in a negotiation kind of environment the ideal steps to follow are -

I->T: proposal
T->I: accept or reject

This kind of leads into a situation that the initiator relies on the intelligence of the target to accept or reject the proposal. The cases of reject should be qualified with substantial reasons for the initiator to conduct a postmortem. Since there is no built in integrity checks for the Login PDU's (as in FFP) I believe a comprehensive reject reason would be of great help.

One more reason the query capabilities should be dispensed off would be security concerns that it could generate. 

But sometimes the capability of query does help for eg: in the case(s) of a SNMP/DMI agent.

- Rakesh

Original Message:
-----------------
From: Robert D. Russell [email-masked]
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 10:52:35 -0500 (EST)
To: [email-masked], [email-masked], [email-masked]
Subject: RE: FW: FW: iSCSI: support value of ?

Julian:

On Tue, 19 Feb 2002, Eddy Quicksall wrote:

> > I am thinking that the value of the "?" syntax is very limited and appears
> > Do you think it has any use other than for vendor specifics? Can you give
> me
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
> > >
> > >
> > > I’m asking is because it seems silly to support it if it has no =
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span=
> > > ></p>
> > >
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
> > >
> > >
> !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></span></p>=
> > >
> > >
> > > !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><o:p></o:p></span></font></p>
> > >
> > > <p class=3DMsoNormal =
> > > SCSI.  I
> > >   <p class=3DMsoNormal><![if !supportEmptyParas]> <![endif]><font =
> > > size=3D3
> > >   Quicksall <[email-masked]></span></font></b><font
> > >   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>   
> =
> > >  
> > >     </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > >   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>  =
> > >    
> > >     To:        Julian =
> > >   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>  =
> > >    
> > >     cc:        </span></font><font =
> > > color=3Dblack><span
> > >   style=3D'font-size:7.5pt;font-family:sans-serif;color:black'>  =
> > >    
> > >     Subject:        FW: iSCSI: support value =
> > > of ?</span></font><font
> > >   7.5pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'>      =
> > >  </span></font><font
> > >   color=3Dblack><span =
> > >
> > > "?" syntax of any good other than for vendor specific =
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></f=
> > > ont><font
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:navy'> </span></f=
> > > ont><font
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></=
> > > font><font
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></=
> > > font><font
> > > "?" with any key has the meaning of enquiry and should =
> > > be</span></font><font
> > > current value or "NotUnderstood".</span></font><font =
> > > color=3Dblack><span
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></=
> > > font><font
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></=
> > > font><font
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></=
> > > font><font
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></=
> > > font><font
> > >   </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > > style=3D'color:black'>SendTargets –
> > >   </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > > style=3D'color:black'>TargetName –
> > >   </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > > style=3D'color:black'>TargetAlias –
> > >  "this name MUST be communicated to the initiator during a
> > > Login". So that is already known. </span></font><font =
> > > color=3Dblack><span
> > >
> > >   </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > > – the initiator should already know his alias </span></font><font
> =
> > > color=3Dblack><span
> > >
> > >   </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > > – the target is the only one that can send this in a response =
> > > </span></font><font
> > > color=3Dblack><span =
> > >
> > >   </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > > – this should be known from the negotiations </span></font><font =
> > > color=3Dblack><span
> > >
> > >   </span></font><font color=3Dblack><span =
> > > Specific – Could this be the reason? If so, lets say that so we =
> > > don't have to
> > > "?" can be
> > > "Reject" meaning that we don't support that syntax =
> > > (currently, the
> > > definition of the "Reject value" does not fit this). =
> > > </span></font><font
> > > color=3Dblack><span =
> > >
> style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:black'> </span></=
> > > font><font

--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
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---

From: "John Hufferd" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 20 Feb 2002 15:52:38 -0800

There was a potential proposal for extracting the eui, from the host, or if
you will -- the platform name, which might be used by a Gateway Device, and
that was for the gateway to ask with a keyword followed by the "?".  But we
have not reached closure on any thing like that for now.

.
.
.
John L. Hufferd
Senior Technical Staff Member (STSM)
IBM/SSG San Jose Ca
Main Office (408) 256-0403, Tie: 276-0403,  eFax: (408) 904-4688
Home Office (408) 997-6136, Cell: (408) 499-9702
Internet address: [email-masked]

Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@[email-masked] on 02/20/2002 08:37:59 AM

Sent by:    [email-masked]

To:    [email-masked]
cc:

----- Forwarded by Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM on 20-02-02 18:34 -----
                                                                          
      "Robert D. Russell"                                                 
      <[email-masked]>                To:        Eddy Quicksall       
                                  <[email-masked]>            
      20-02-02 17:52                      cc:        "ips@ece. cmu. edu   
                                  (E-mail)" <[email-masked]>, Julian     
                                  Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL                  
                                          Subject:        RE: FW: FW:     
                                  iSCSI: support value of ?               

Julian:

appears
give
target
initiators
scheme
has
response
> > > <!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > > >  <o:OfficeDocumentSettings> > > >
<o:DoNotRelyOnCSS/> > > >  </o:OfficeDocumentSettings> > > > </xml>
<![endif]--><!--[if gte mso 9]><xml> > > >  <w:WordDocument> > > >
<w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom> > > >   <w:DocumentKind>DocumentEmail</w:DocumentKind> >
New
in
&nbsp;
</span></font><font