Return-Path: X-Sieve: cmu-sieve 2.0 Return-Path: Received: (from majordom@localhost) by ece.cmu.edu (8.11.0/8.10.2) id h3F5oer04914 for ips-outgoing; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:50:40 -0400 (EDT) X-Authentication-Warning: ece.cmu.edu: majordom set sender to owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu using -f Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com [194.196.100.235]) by ece.cmu.edu (8.11.0/8.10.2) with ESMTP id h3F5oa304909 for ; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 01:50:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (8.12.9/8.12.8) with ESMTP id h3F5oRUm078850; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:50:27 +0200 Received: from d10ml001.telaviv.ibm.com (d10ml001.telaviv.ibm.com [9.148.216.55]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.12.8/NCO/VER6.5) with ESMTP id h3F5oQhe160810; Tue, 15 Apr 2003 07:50:26 +0200 In-Reply-To: <20030415022309.96675.qmail@web12505.mail.yahoo.com> To: Sukanta ganguly Cc: ips@ece.cmu.edu, owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu, Robert Snively , "'Russell Lewis'" Subject: RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at 100Mb speed? MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 6.0.1 February 07, 2003 From: "Julian Satran" Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 08:50:23 +0300 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on D10ML001/10/M/IBM(Release 5.0.9a |January 7, 2002) at 15/04/2003 08:50:26, Serialize complete at 15/04/2003 08:50:26 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_alternative 001B37B8C2256D09_=" Sender: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu Precedence: bulk This is a multipart message in MIME format. --=_alternative 001B37B8C2256D09_= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" We did run "informal" tests using Windows/Office+Personal-Web-server (a usual home/SOHO setup) on switched 100Mb/s (also common at home). The disks we attached to where better than the ordinary desktop IDE drives (we where using the now defunct 200i - but I have seen an inexpensive small array (looks like a larger brick two weeks ago at Fry's for $500 - if you put those behind a (not very old) PC running Linux you can have a decent and inexpensive home target). Webserver and Office where showing better numbers - and the perceived response time on clients was better. Julo Sukanta ganguly 15/04/03 05:23 To Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, Robert Snively cc ips@ece.cmu.edu, owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu, Russell Lewis/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS Subject RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at 100Mb speed? Hi, For a diskless environment multiple other issues have to come into play, i.e Network based remote boot logic, proper downlod of enough Operating System code onto the diskless box etc. Julo, what kinds of numbers did you folks see ? What is your environment like ? I am a little perplexed with the high speed connection to the remote disks via iSCSI. Thanks SG --- Julian Satran wrote: > Bob, > > I wonder if your opinion is based on real experience > or prejudice. > Our measurements indicate that an inexpensive box > with SCSI disks performs > BETTER than an IDE (typical) desktop drive > using iSCSI over a 100MB/s connection (widely > available for home use) - > and that includes paging (usually marginal) and all > the rest. > > Julo > > > > Robert Snively > Sent by: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu > 14/04/03 18:06 > > To > Russell Lewis/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS, ips@ece.cmu.edu > cc > > Subject > RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at > 100Mb speed? > > > > > > > My experience with diskless workstations is that > they are limited by paging activity and background > updating to really unacceptable performance, even in > > simple word-processing programs like frame maker > doing medium sized books, and even on a local 10 > Mb/s > network. > You are far better off running a workstation with > a local disk for system and swap, but running > dataless. NFS or comparable networking programs > run fine for that. The local caching of the files > on disk and in memory assure adequate performance, > while > the maintenance of your data remotely assures > appropriate centralized data management and backup. > Remember too, that it is a rare broadband connection > > that gives you anything approaching 100 Mb/s. A T1 > DSL link > is specified at 1.54 Mb/s, and it is the fastest of > the > common broadband links. > In addition, there is nothing more frustrating than > being > unable to operate because your link is down or > severely > congested, something that happens far more often > than the > unavailability of a local disk. > My view? iSCSI is not an appropriate protocol for > home > networking data access. Use your IDE or SATA drive > locally > for boot, swap, system, and any hot programs and use > > NFS or other remote file access program against a > remote > server for data and other programs. > Bob Snively > 408-333-8135 > rsnively@brocade.com > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Russell Lewis [mailto:russelll@us.ibm.com] > > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:25 AM > > To: ips@ece.cmu.edu > > Subject: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? > Preferably at 100Mb speed? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Does anybody know of any current or coming iSCSI > HBAs which > > show up (to the > > BIOS) as ordinary SCSI adapters? I'd like to drop > such an HBA into a > > legacy computer and run a totally diskless > workstation at home. > > > > However, since it will be a home computer, I'm > willing to > > operate at 100Mb > > speed - I'm willing to eat the performance hit. > It seems to me that > > somebody could make an iSCSI HBA with a 100Mb > interface and make it > > affordable for the home user (say, $50-$100). > Anybody know > > of such plans? > > > > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo http://search.yahoo.com --=_alternative 001B37B8C2256D09_= Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII"
We did run "informal" tests using Windows/Office+Personal-Web-server (a usual home/SOHO setup) on switched 100Mb/s (also common at home).
The disks we attached to where better than the ordinary desktop IDE drives (we where using the now defunct 200i - but I have seen an inexpensive small array (looks like a larger brick two weeks ago at Fry's for $500 - if you put those behind a (not very old) PC running Linux you can have a decent and inexpensive home target). Webserver  and Office where showing better numbers - and the perceived response time on clients was better.

Julo


Sukanta ganguly <sganguly@yahoo.com>

15/04/03 05:23

To
Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>
cc
ips@ece.cmu.edu, owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu, Russell Lewis/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS
Subject
RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs?  Preferably at 100Mb speed?





Hi,

   For a diskless environment multiple other issues
have to come into play, i.e Network based remote boot
logic, proper downlod of enough Operating System code
onto the diskless box etc.

   Julo, what kinds of numbers did you folks see ?
What is your environment like ? I am a little
perplexed with the high speed connection to the remote
disks via iSCSI.

Thanks
SG


--- Julian Satran <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com> wrote:
> Bob,
>
> I wonder if your opinion is based on real experience
> or prejudice.
> Our measurements indicate that an inexpensive box
> with SCSI disks performs
> BETTER than an IDE (typical) desktop drive
> using iSCSI over a 100MB/s connection (widely
> available for home use) -
> and that includes paging (usually marginal) and all
> the rest.
>
>         Julo
>
>
>
> Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM>
> Sent by: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu
> 14/04/03 18:06
>
> To
> Russell Lewis/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS, ips@ece.cmu.edu
> cc
>
> Subject
> RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs?  Preferably at
> 100Mb speed?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> My experience with diskless workstations is that
> they are limited by paging activity and background
> updating to really unacceptable performance, even in
>
> simple word-processing programs like frame maker
> doing medium sized books, and even on a local 10
> Mb/s
> network.
> You are far better off running a workstation with
> a local disk for system and swap, but running
> dataless.  NFS or comparable networking programs
> run fine for that.  The local caching of the files
> on disk and in memory assure adequate performance,
> while
> the maintenance of your data remotely assures
> appropriate centralized data management and backup.
> Remember too, that it is a rare broadband connection
>
> that gives you anything approaching 100 Mb/s.  A T1
> DSL link
> is specified at 1.54 Mb/s, and it is the fastest of
> the
> common broadband links.
> In addition, there is nothing more frustrating than
> being
> unable to operate because your link is down or
> severely
> congested, something that happens far more often
> than the
> unavailability of a local disk.
> My view?  iSCSI is not an appropriate protocol for
> home
> networking data access.  Use your IDE or SATA drive
> locally
> for boot, swap, system, and any hot programs and use
>
> NFS or other remote file access program against a
> remote
> server for data and other programs.
> Bob Snively
> 408-333-8135
> rsnively@brocade.com
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Russell Lewis [mailto:russelll@us.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:25 AM
> > To: ips@ece.cmu.edu
> > Subject: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs?
> Preferably at 100Mb speed?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Does anybody know of any current or coming iSCSI
> HBAs which
> > show up (to the
> > BIOS) as ordinary SCSI adapters?  I'd like to drop
> such an HBA into a
> > legacy computer and run a totally diskless
> workstation at home.
> >
> > However, since it will be a home computer, I'm
> willing to
> > operate at 100Mb
> > speed - I'm willing to eat the performance hit.
> It seems to me that
> > somebody could make an iSCSI HBA with a 100Mb
> interface and make it
> > affordable for the home user (say, $50-$100).
> Anybody know
> > of such plans?
> >
> >
>


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