From: "Elizabeth G. Rodriguez" <Elizabeth.G.Rodriguez@123mail.net>
To: "'ERICKSON,SHAWN \(HP-Roseville,ex1\)'" <shawn_erickson@hp.com>,
   <ips@ece.cmu.edu>
Subject: IPS-ALL RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at 100Mb speed?
Date: Tue, 15 Apr 2003 21:38:08 -0700
Keywords: IETF-IPS
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Hi all,

Shawn is correct -- this thread does not belong on this mailing list.
The mailing list is for technical discussion on WG items.

It is not for discussion of corporate product/solutions, merits of the
technology, etc.

Please cease this thread.

Thanks,

Elizabeth Rodriguez
IPS co-chair

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu [mailto:owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu] On Behalf Of
ERICKSON,SHAWN (HP-Roseville,ex1)
Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:35 AM
To: ips@ece.cmu.edu
Subject: RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at 100Mb speed?
Importance: Low

I think the point of this thread may have been lost. (also should it even be
on this list?)
 
If anyone has adapters in the works in the said price range please speak up,
otherwise I think we are digressing it discussion of semantics on the one
side and possible configurations on the other.
 
-Shawn

	-----Original Message-----
	From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com] 
	Sent: Tuesday, April 15, 2003 10:08 AM
	To: Robert Snively
	Cc: ips@ece.cmu.edu; owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu; Robert Snively; 'Russell
Lewis'; Sukanta ganguly
	Subject: RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at 100Mb
speed?
	
	

	I did not read any of my statements talking about using local disks.
Do you ? 
	What we created is a diskless environment for a regular software
stack (Linux and Windows). 
	
	
	Julo 
	
	
	
Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM> 

15/04/03 18:34 

To
Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, Sukanta ganguly <sganguly@yahoo.com> 
cc
ips@ece.cmu.edu, owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu, Robert Snively
<rsnively@Brocade.COM>, Russell Lewis/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS 
Subject
RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at 100Mb speed?

	




	What you have described is not a diskless environment.  It is a
disk-full environment 
	with local disks, a well supported and very cheap environment that
receives 
	no benefit from iSCSI and is frequently implemented with traditional
SCSI or 
	ATA and will soon be implemented with SATA. 
	  
	If you create the local iSCSI home target, you still have not
provided the diskless 
	environment to the legacy hosts you intend to attach to that target.
If you have more 
	than one such host, you must introduce non-legacy software and
management tools. 
	In most cases, you could have just attached your $500 brick directly
and saved 
	yourself the cost (and hassle of managing) the extra Linux PC
target. 
	  
	It looks to me like we still have some confusion interpreting
Russell's original intent. 
	  
	Bob 
	-----Original Message-----
	From: Julian Satran [mailto:Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com]
	Sent: Monday, April 14, 2003 10:50 PM
	To: Sukanta ganguly
	Cc: ips@ece.cmu.edu; owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu; Robert Snively; 'Russell
Lewis'
	Subject: RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs? Preferably at 100Mb
speed?
	
	
	We did run "informal" tests using Windows/Office+Personal-Web-server
(a usual home/SOHO setup) on switched 100Mb/s (also common at home). 
	The disks we attached to where better than the ordinary desktop IDE
drives (we where using the now defunct 200i - but I have seen an inexpensive
small array (looks like a larger brick two weeks ago at Fry's for $500 - if
you put those behind a (not very old) PC running Linux you can have a decent
and inexpensive home target). Webserver  and Office where showing better
numbers - and the perceived response time on clients was better. 
	
	Julo 
	
	
Sukanta ganguly <sganguly@yahoo.com> 

15/04/03 05:23 



To
Julian Satran/Haifa/IBM@IBMIL, Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM> 
cc
ips@ece.cmu.edu, owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu, Russell Lewis/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS 
Subject
RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs?  Preferably at 100Mb speed?


	


	
	
	
	Hi,
	
	  For a diskless environment multiple other issues
	have to come into play, i.e Network based remote boot
	logic, proper downlod of enough Operating System code
	onto the diskless box etc.
	
	  Julo, what kinds of numbers did you folks see ?
	What is your environment like ? I am a little
	perplexed with the high speed connection to the remote
	disks via iSCSI.
	
	Thanks
	SG
	
	
	--- Julian Satran <Julian_Satran@il.ibm.com> wrote:
	> Bob,
	> 
	> I wonder if your opinion is based on real experience
	> or prejudice.
	> Our measurements indicate that an inexpensive box
	> with SCSI disks performs 
	> BETTER than an IDE (typical) desktop drive
	> using iSCSI over a 100MB/s connection (widely
	> available for home use) - 
	> and that includes paging (usually marginal) and all
	> the rest.
	> 
	>         Julo
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> Robert Snively <rsnively@Brocade.COM> 
	> Sent by: owner-ips@ece.cmu.edu
	> 14/04/03 18:06
	> 
	> To
	> Russell Lewis/Tucson/IBM@IBMUS, ips@ece.cmu.edu
	> cc
	> 
	> Subject
	> RE: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs?  Preferably at
	> 100Mb speed?
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> 
	> My experience with diskless workstations is that 
	> they are limited by paging activity and background 
	> updating to really unacceptable performance, even in
	> 
	> simple word-processing programs like frame maker 
	> doing medium sized books, and even on a local 10
	> Mb/s 
	> network. 
	> You are far better off running a workstation with 
	> a local disk for system and swap, but running 
	> dataless.  NFS or comparable networking programs 
	> run fine for that.  The local caching of the files 
	> on disk and in memory assure adequate performance,
	> while 
	> the maintenance of your data remotely assures 
	> appropriate centralized data management and backup. 
	> Remember too, that it is a rare broadband connection
	> 
	> that gives you anything approaching 100 Mb/s.  A T1
	> DSL link 
	> is specified at 1.54 Mb/s, and it is the fastest of
	> the 
	> common broadband links. 
	> In addition, there is nothing more frustrating than
	> being 
	> unable to operate because your link is down or
	> severely 
	> congested, something that happens far more often
	> than the 
	> unavailability of a local disk. 
	> My view?  iSCSI is not an appropriate protocol for
	> home 
	> networking data access.  Use your IDE or SATA drive
	> locally 
	> for boot, swap, system, and any hot programs and use
	> 
	> NFS or other remote file access program against a
	> remote 
	> server for data and other programs. 
	> Bob Snively 
	> 408-333-8135 
	> rsnively@brocade.com 
	> > -----Original Message----- 
	> > From: Russell Lewis [mailto:russelll@us.ibm.com] 
	> > Sent: Friday, April 11, 2003 9:25 AM 
	> > To: ips@ece.cmu.edu 
	> > Subject: Are there any coming iSCSI HBAs?
	> Preferably at 100Mb speed? 
	> > 
	> > 
	> > 
	> > 
	> > 
	> > 
	> > Does anybody know of any current or coming iSCSI
	> HBAs which 
	> > show up (to the 
	> > BIOS) as ordinary SCSI adapters?  I'd like to drop
	> such an HBA into a 
	> > legacy computer and run a totally diskless
	> workstation at home. 
	> > 
	> > However, since it will be a home computer, I'm
	> willing to 
	> > operate at 100Mb 
	> > speed - I'm willing to eat the performance hit. 
	> It seems to me that 
	> > somebody could make an iSCSI HBA with a 100Mb
	> interface and make it 
	> > affordable for the home user (say, $50-$100). 
	> Anybody know 
	> > of such plans? 
	> > 
	> > 
	> 
	
	
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