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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon May  1 19:30:58 2000
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From: <cindy8852@yahoo.com>
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 15:59:02
Message-Id: <369.344346.269302@mx2.mail.yahoo.com>
Subject: [IPTEL] Parents of 15-year-old find $71,000 cash hidden in his closet
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Parents of 15-year-old find $71,000 cash hidden in his closet

Does this headline look familiar?  Of course it does.  You most 
likely have just seen this story recently featured on a major 
nightly news program (USA). 

His mother was cleaning and putting laundry away when she came 
across a large brown paper bag that was suspiciously buried 
beneath some clothes and a skateboard in the back of her 
15-year-old son's closet.  Nothing could have prepared her for the 
shock she got when she opened the bag and found it was full of 
cash.  Five dollar bills, twenties, fifties and hundreds- all 
neatly rubber-banded in labeled piles.  "My first thought was that 
he had robbed a bank", says the 41-year-old woman, "There was over 
$71,000 dollars in that bag- that's more than my husband earns in 
a year".

The woman immediately called her husband at the car-dealership 
where he worked to tell him what she'd discovered.  He came home 
right away and they drove together to the boy's school and picked 
him up.  Little did they suspect that where the money came from 
was more shocking than actually finding it in the closet.

As it turns out, the boy had been sending out via E-mail on the 
Internet a type of 'chain-letter' to E-mail addresses that he 
obtained off of the Internet.  Everyday after school for the past 
2 months, he had been doing this right on his computer in his 
bedroom.  

"I just got the E-mail one day and I figured what the heck, I put 
my name on it like the instructions said and I started sending it 
out", says the clever 15-year-old. 

The E-mail letter listed 3 addresses and contained instructions to 
send one $5 dollar bill to the person at the top of the list, then 
delete that address and move the other 2 addresses up, and finally 
to add your name to the bottom of the list.  The letter goes on to 
state that you would receive several thousand dollars in five 
dollar bills within 2 weeks if you sent out the letter with your 
name at the bottom of the 3-address list "I get junk E-mail all 
the time, and I really didn't think it was gonna work", the boy 
continues.

Within the first few days of sending out the E-mail, the Post 
Office Box that his parents had gotten him for his video-game 
magazine subscriptions began to fill up with not magazines, but 
envelopes containing $5 dollar bills.  "about a week later I rode 
[my bike] down to the post office and my box had 1 magazine and 
about 300 envelopes stuffed in it.  There was also a yellow slip 
that said I had to go up to the [post office] counter- I thought I 
was in trouble or something (laughs)". He goes on, "I went up to 
the counter and they had a whole box of more mail for me.  I had 
to ride back home and empty out my backpack 'cause I couldn't 
carry it all".

Over the next few weeks, the boy continued sending out the E-mail. 
 "The money just kept coming in and I just kept sorting it and 
stashing it in the closet, I barely had time for my homework". He 
had also been riding his bike to several of the area's banks and 
exchanging the $5 bills for twenties, fifties and hundreds.  "I 
didn't want the banks to get suspicious so I kept riding to 
different banks with like five thousand at a time in my backpack. 
 I would usually tell the lady at the bank counter that my dad had 
sent me in [to exchange the money] and he was outside waiting for 
me.  One time the lady gave me a really strange look and told me 
that she wouldn't be able to do it for me and my dad would have to 
come in and do it, but I just rode to the next bank down the 
street (laughs)."

Surprisingly, the boy didn't have any reason to be afraid.  The 
reporting news team examined and investigated the so-called 
'chain-letter' the boy was sending out and found that it wasn't a 
chain-letter at all.  In fact, it was completely legal according 
to US Postal and Lottery Laws, Title 18, Section 1302 and 1341, or 
Title 18, Section 3005 in the US code, also in the code of federal 
regulations, Volume 16, Sections 255 and 436, which state a 
product or service must be exchanged for money received.

Every five dollar bill that he received contained a little note 
that read, "Please add me to your mailing list".  This simple note 
made the letter legal because he was exchanging a service (adding 
the purchasers name to his mailing list) for a five dollar fee.

Here is the letter that the 15-year-old was sending out by E-mail, 
you can do the exact same thing he was doing, simply by following 
the instructions in this letter-
--------------------------------------------

Here are instructions on how to make $10,000 US cash in the next 2 
weeks:

There are 3 addresses listed below.

Send the person at the top of the list a $5 bill wrapped in 2 
pieces of paper (to securely hide it), along with a note that 
says: "Please add me to your mailing list".

Then delete that name, move the other 2 up and put your name at 
the bottom. 

Now start sending this ENTIRE E-mail back out to people.  When 20 
people receive it, those 20 people will move your name up to the 
middle position and they will each send out 20. That totals 400 
people that will receive this letter with your name in the middle. 
 Then, those 400 people will move your name up to the top and they 
will each send out 20 E-mails.  That totals 8,000 people that will 
receive this E-mail with your name at the top and they will each 
send you a $5 bill.  

8,000 people each sending you a $5 bill = $40,000 cash.  That's if 
everyone responds to this E-mail, but not everyone will, so you 
can expect more realistically to receive about $10,000 cash $5 
bills in your mailbox.  

This will work for anyone, anywhere in the world in any country, 
but send only a US CASH $5 bill.

The more E-mails you send out, the more cash you will receive.  If 
each person sends out 100 E-mails, there will be 1,000,000 people 
that receive this letter when your name reaches the top. If only 
1% of those people respond, you will still get $50,000 cash.

Here is the list:  
---------------------------------------------------------- 
1) K. Williams
   PO Box 16077
   Surfside Beach, SC 29587

2) Core Audio
   PO Box 128
   Shallotte, NC 28459

3) Grafx Designs
   PO Box 2149
   Rincon, GA 31326-2149
---------------------------------------------------------- 

THERE'S NOTHING MORE TO DO. When your name reaches the top in a
few days, you will start receiving $5 bills from other people just 
like yourself, who are willing to invest a $5 bill to receive 
$10,000 cash.

If you don't try it- you will never know.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


_______________________________________________
IPTEL mailing list
IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel


From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue May  2 00:08:36 2000
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Subject: [IPTEL] Re: MAKE AT LEAST $5000 EVERY WEEK ~ GUARANTEED!
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LEARN HOW YOU CAN MAKE AT LEAST $5000 EVERY WEEK ~ GUARANTEED!
ABSOLUTELY NO SELLING ~ NOT MLM ~ NO PRODUCTS TO PURCHASE ~ NO RISK!

If You're Serious About Making BIG Money,  Get this Important FREE Information NOW, and start 
earning Your Fortune TODAY!   

If You've Always wanted your own business, but don't think you're good at sales, or don't have 
the time to devote to getting it started, THIS IS IT!  All of the work is done for you! 

YOU DON'T HAVE TO CONTACT, OR SPEAK WITH ANYONE TO BE SUCCESSFUL!

For all of the details,  just send a blank email, with "Free Secrets" in the subject box, to:
nowork4u164@bigfoot.com

You owe is to yourself to get this FREE Information TODAY!
THIS IS YOUR CHANCE ~ TAKE IT NOW!!



You are on our in-house safe list.  If you would like to be removed, please just hit reply, and put
Remove in the subject box, and you will be removed Immediately!  Thank you.



_______________________________________________
IPTEL mailing list
IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel


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From: "Promocion" <info@a-comprar.com.ar>
To: <promo@a-comprar.com.ar>
Date: Mon, 1 May 2000 12:13:36 -0300
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Reg=EDstrate en "a-comprar" http://www.a-comprar.com.ar  y =
autom=E1ticamente recibir=E1s de regalo una estad=EDa  de hospedaje para =
cuatro personas por 7 d=EDas en el Complejo Vacacional Tiempo Compartido =
del Lago Puelo.=20
=20
=20
Todo naturaleza en 22 hect=E1reas de lagos, r=EDos y monta=F1as; a 12km =
de El Bols=F3n y 140 km de Bariloche.=20

Una vez registrado, autom=E1ticamente te convertir=E1s en miembro de la =
comunidad  "a-comprar", tu sitio ideal de compras, donde los precios =
bajan y bajan...
   =20
    Nuestro sistema "a-comprar" es el nuevo modo de adquirir lo =
necesario CON DESCUENTO POR VOLUMEN. Inigualable.=20

    Podr=E1s comprar s=F3lo... o comprar m=E1s barato.

** PROMOCION VALIDA HASTA EL 08/05/2000 **=20


Tanto sea usted consumidor o empresario:

  a.. =BFQuiere comprar mas barato?=20
  b.. =BFQuiere vender m=E1s; y llegar a mas potenciales clientes?=20
  c.. =BFLe gustar=EDa comprar sin moverse de su casa?=20
  d.. =BFLe gustar=EDa vender con menores costos de transacci=F3n?=20
  e.. =BFSabia que puede comprar las 24 hs del d=EDa los 7 d=EDas de la =
semana, en todo el pa=EDs y se lo llevamos a su casa?=20
  f.. =BFSabia que puede vender las 24 hs del d=EDa los 7 d=EDas de la =
semana y en todo el pa=EDs?=20
  g.. =BFY que ademas puede elegir entre varias formas de pago? Tarjeta =
de Credito, Deposito Bancario, Cheques Personales, Giros Postales o =
Bancarios.=20
  h.. =BFY que si tiene suerte, su compra puede ser favorecida con el =
"sin cargo"? o sea =A1=A1GRATIS!!

Lo esperamos para regalarle su semana en Lago Puelo! en: =
www.a-comprar.com.ar=20
Lo saluda,

                    Rocio Lavalle=20

                    Dto Marketing info@a-comprar.com.ar=20



Nota: Si desea no recibir mas informaci=F3n nuestra, mandenos un mail a =
info@a-comprar.com.ar colocando en el asunto "remover"
=20
-------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------


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<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD W3 HTML//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3Dtext/html;charset=3Diso-8859-1 =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<STYLE></STYLE>

<META content=3D'"MSHTML 5.00.0910.1309"' name=3DGENERATOR></HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3DGaramond>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3DGaramond>
<DIV><FONT color=3D#000080 face=3DGaramond><FONT color=3D#000080 =
face=3DGaramond><FONT=20
color=3D#000080 face=3DGaramond><FONT color=3D#000080 =
face=3DGaramond><FONT=20
color=3D#000080 face=3DGaramond><FONT color=3D#000080 =
face=3DGaramond><FONT=20
color=3D#000080 face=3DGaramond><FONT color=3D#000080 =
face=3DGaramond><FONT=20
color=3D#000080 face=3DVerdana size=3D2><FONT =
color=3D#000000>Reg=EDstrate en=20
&quot;a-comprar&quot;</FONT> <FONT color=3D#000000><A=20
href=3D"http://www.a-comprar.com.ar">http://www.a-comprar.com.ar</A>&nbsp=
; y=20
autom=E1ticamente recibir=E1s de regalo una estad=EDa&nbsp; de hospedaje =
para cuatro=20
personas por 7 d=EDas en <FONT color=3D#000080></FONT><FONT =
color=3D#000000>el=20
Complejo Vacacional Tiempo Compartido del Lago =
Puelo.&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV></FONT>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT=20
color=3D#000080></FONT>&nbsp;</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#000080>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
color=3D#000080><FONT=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>Todo naturaleza en 22 hect=E1reas de lagos, =
r=EDos y monta=F1as;=20
a 12km de El Bols=F3n y&nbsp;140 km de =
</STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT=20
color=3D#000080><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT=20
color=3D#000000><STRONG>Bariloche. </STRONG></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT =
color=3D#000000>Una vez=20
registrado, autom=E1ticamente te convertir=E1s en miembro de la =
comunidad&nbsp;=20
<STRONG><FONT color=3D#000080>&quot;a-comprar&quot;</FONT></STRONG>, tu =
sitio=20
ideal de compras, donde los precios bajan y=20
bajan...</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV></FONT>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DVerdana>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2><FONT color=3D#000000=20
face=3DVerdana>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Nuestro sistema &quot;a-comprar&quot; =
es=20
el&nbsp;nuevo modo de adquirir lo necesario CON DESCUENTO POR VOLUMEN.=20
Inigualable. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT size=3D2><FONT =
face=3DVerdana>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Podr=E1s=20
comprar s=F3lo... o comprar m=E1s barato.</FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>
<DIV align=3Dcenter><FONT color=3D#008080><EM>** PROMOCION VALIDA HASTA =
EL=20
08/05/2000 **</EM></FONT></FONT><FONT color=3D#000080> =
</FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Dcenter>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#000080>
<DIV>
<P><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>Tanto sea usted consumidor o=20
empresario:</FONT></FONT></P>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>=BFQuiere comprar mas barato? =
</FONT></FONT>
  <LI><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>=BFQuiere vender m=E1s; y =
llegar a mas=20
  potenciales clientes? </FONT></FONT>
  <LI><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>=BFLe gustar=EDa comprar sin =
moverse de su=20
  casa? </FONT></FONT>
  <LI><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>=BFLe gustar=EDa vender con =
menores costos de=20
  transacci=F3n? </FONT></FONT>
  <LI><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>=BFSabia que puede comprar las =
24 hs del d=EDa=20
  los 7 d=EDas de la semana, en todo el pa=EDs y se lo llevamos a su =
casa?=20
  </FONT></FONT>
  <LI><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>=BFSabia que puede vender las =
24 hs del d=EDa=20
  los 7 d=EDas de la semana y en todo el pa=EDs?</FONT></FONT>=20
  <LI>
  <DIV><FONT size=3D2><FONT face=3DVerdana>=BFY que ademas puede elegir =
entre varias=20
  formas de pago? Tarjeta de Credito, Deposito Bancario, Cheques =
Personales,=20
  Giros Postales o Bancarios. </FONT></FONT></DIV>
  <LI>
  <DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana size=3D2>=BFY que si tiene suerte, su compra =
puede ser=20
  favorecida con el &quot;sin cargo&quot;? o sea=20
=A1=A1GRATIS!!<BR></FONT></DIV></LI></UL>
<DIV><FONT face=3DVerdana><FONT size=3D2>Lo esperamos para regalarle su =
semana en=20
Lago Puelo! en: <A =
href=3D"http://www.a-comprar.com.ar">www.a-comprar.com.ar</A>=20
</FONT></DIV>
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From: "Nilo Mitra (EUS)" <EUSNILM@am1.ericsson.se>
To: "'iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com'" <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
Cc: "'lennox@cs.columbia.edu'" <lennox@cs.columbia.edu>,
        "'schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu'" <schulzrinne@cs.columbia.edu>
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Subject: [IPTEL] corrections to CPLv2 DTD and some text
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Here are some corrections to the DTD of the CPL version 2 document,
draft-ietf-iptel-cpl-01.txt, dated March 10, 2000.

I am working on the assumption that the text takes precedence over the DTD,
and therefore I have corrected the CPLv2 DTD to conform to the intent stated
in the text. I do realise that the CPL DTD is not sufficient for a cpl
script's validity but feel that it should accurately reflect the text as far
as is possible. Think of my efforts as making corrections to the CPL DTD
syntax using DTD and XML rules to allow for greater expressivity (if that's
a word).

1. The preamble <?xml version="1.0"...?> is not needed, as a DTD is not an
XML document.

2. Enclose the whole thing within: 
	<! DOCTYPE cpl [
	....
	]> 

3. Is it really intended that the timezone information can be included more
than once, as described by the asterisk (0 or more) in the definition of the
top level element
namely <!ELEMENT cpl (timezone*, subaction*, outgoing?, incoming? )> ?

I suspect it should be 0 or 1 in which case a "?" should be used to qualify
it so that it reads <!ELEMENT cpl (timezone?, subaction*, outgoing?,
incoming? )>.

4.  It would be good to write the top level element as 

	<!ELEMENT cpl ( (%Ancillary;)*, subaction*, outgoing?, incoming? )>

thereby not requiring any change to the top level structure when there are
additional items added to the ancillary information beyond the currently
supported "timezone".

As currently defined, namely <!ELEMENT cpl (timezone*, subaction*,
outgoing?, incoming? )>,
it allows for multiple timezone entries, which I don't believe is what is
intended. 

What I believe is intended is that there be the potential for multiple
ancillary entries but only one entry for timezone. My proposal doesn't
exactly solve the multiple time zone entries issue, but at least it is a
step in the right direction, and the intent of having only one timezone
entry could be indicated with a comment.

The other alternative is to make it 
	<!ELEMENT cpl (timezone?, subaction*, outgoing?, incoming? )>
which is not future-proof.

5. The address-switch node or element as currently written, namely

	<!ELEMENT address-switch ( (address | not-present)+, otherwise? )>

would suggest that the not-present element can potentially be present
multiple times. This element definition should be rewritten as

	<!ELEMENT address-switch (address+, not-present?, otherwise? )>

6.  The attribute list for <address> should contain only one of "is",
"subdomain-of" or "contains", but this limitation is not perfectly expressed
in the syntax
	<!ATTLIST address
	is 		CDATA	#IMPLIED
	contains	CDATA	#IMPLIED
	subdomain-of	CDATA	#IMPLIED
	>
because it allows for each of these to appear. The way to express the
constraint might be

	<!ENTITY % is "is CDATA #IMPLIED">
	<!ENTITY % contains "contains CDATA #IMPLIED"> 	
	<!ENTITY % subdomain-of "subdomain-of CDATA #IMPLIED">

	<!ATTLIST address (%is; | %contains; | %subdomain-of;) >

7. The string-switch element should be rewritten, for the same reasons as in
item 5 above, as
	<!ELEMENT string-switch (string+, not-present?, otherwise? )>

8. The attribute list for <string> should be rewritten, for the same reasons
as in item 6 above, as

	<!ENTITY % is "is CDATA #IMPLIED">
	<!ENTITY % contains "contains CDATA #IMPLIED">
	<!ATTLIST string (%is; | %contains;) >

9. The time-switch element should be rewritten, for the same reasons as in
item 5 above, as
	<!ELEMENT time-switch (time+, not-present?, otherwise? )>

As the text says that the not-present output is never true for a
time-switch, why not leave it out altogether from the definition of the DTD
so that it becomes
	<!ELEMENT time-switch (time+, otherwise? )>

10. A propos the <time> element and its attributes, looking at the various
examples given, it seems to imply that the absence of some elements implies
a default value, for instance:
	timeofday absent => all day
	year absent => all year
	day absent => all week (btw, is it "weekday" as stated in fig 6 or
is it "day" as in the rest of the section?)
	month absent => every month

I have added a default for date, namely "any day of the month".

This could be expressed in the following syntax:

	<!ATTLIST time
		year		CDATA	"all year"
		month		CDATA	"every month"
		date		CDATA	"any day of the month"
		day		CDATA	"every day"
		timeofday 	CDATA 	"all day"
	>

Does this seem a bit forced? I'm personally not too pleased with the way in
which the actual data, which typically will be a number or a range or a list
of numbers/ranges defaults to a character description, but what else can one
do? 

11. The priority-switch element should be rewritten, for the same reasons as
in item 5 above, as
	<!ELEMENT priority-switch (priority+, not-present?, otherwise? )>

12. Only one of the attributes of <priority> may be present. This fact is
not currently expressed correctly in the current cpl DTD (just as in item 6
above), but there is one additional complexity. One way to express this is:

<!ATTLIST priority (less %PriorityVal; | greater %PriorityVal; | equal CDATA
#IMPLIED) #REQUIRED>
	
The CPLv2 draft text seems to imply that one of these must be present, hence
the #REQUIRED.

13. A comparison of the text and the attribute list for <proxy> in the DTD
suggests that there needs to be a clarification of the words "optional", and
having a dfault value. The attribute list
	<!ATTLIST proxy
	...
	recurse	(yes|no) "yes"
	...
	>
means that the attribute recurse is not really absent, even if it is not
actually written down. It's textual absence implies its presence with the
value "yes". And the same for the other attribute with a default value.

14. As the values for the status attribute in <reject> have been specified
in the text, the DTD should provide the enumerated list (where I have added
an additional value "other" as a catch all for the SIP-specific reject codes
4xx, 5xx, 6xx). Thus,
	<!ATTLIST reject
	status	(busy | notfound | reject | error | other) #REQUIRED
	reason	CDATA #IMPLIED
	>

or, if one wised to expose the SIP-specific codes themselves, one could
write

	<!ENTITY % SIP-reject-code '(4xx | 5xx | 6xx)' >

	<!ATTLIST reject
	status	(busy | notfound | reject | error | %SIP-reject-code;)
#REQUIRED
	reason	CDATA #IMPLIED
	>

15. The output of a log node can be any node; so it should be <!ELEMENT log
( %node; ) > rather than have child nodes as currently shown (which was in
version 1).


MISCELLANEOUS

1. Figure 1. Shouldn't "subaddress-of" be "subdomain-of"?

2. In section 4.1 and figure 6 the use of 'weekday" or 'day" should be
clarified.

3. In section 5.1 and Figure 8, shouldn't something be said about the
attribute 'clear"?

4. In Figure 11, the name of the node should be "proxy".

5. The text accompanying the description of the <time> element in section
4.3 does not make clear if at least one of the attributes (year, month,
date,...) must be present.


That's all for now

Nilo Mitra
nilo.mitra@ericsson.com




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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed May  3 05:26:24 2000
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Subject: [IPTEL] Invitation for "Joint Network Management" Meeting
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During the TMNSNMP BOF at the 46th IETF Meeting in Adelaide, 
we discussed some "joint" work that is going on in the 
Network Management area.

Various technical people who normally attend Tiphon, ITU, ETSI, T1M1,
have started a series of so called "Joint Network Management" meetings.
They have also invited technical contribution from subject matter
experts who are active in the IETF. 

The relevant IETF Area Directors do encourage individual participation
by subject matter experts, even though these meetings are not to be
seen as formal IETF meetings.


The next meeting is May 23-24 in Sophia Antipolis. Subject matter 
experts are invited to participate (on personal title).

To register for the meeting, pls read attached ivitation (below).
I assume that an agenda will be posted (relatively soon) to the
jopintnm mailing list. Also note that you can leave the questions
about ETSI membership blank.

Bert Wijnen 
Area Director Operations and Management

---------------------------------------------------------

For further questions/discussion, pls subscribe and post to the
JOINTNM mailing list:

  mailing-list:   jointnm@list.etsi.fr
  archive:        http://list.etsi.fr/archives/jointnm.html
  to subscribe:   send email to: 
                  listserv@list.etsi.fr
                  in body of email: subscribe JOINTNM (YourFirstName
YourLastName)
  More information about all the listserv options at:
     http://www.etsi.org/userguides/listserv/members/
     </userguides/listserv/members/>
  If you have any problem, pls contact: marcello.pagnozzi@etsi.fr

-------------------------------------------------------------
 
The first meeting one took place in Sophia Antipolis on 16 March 2000.
The report is at:
        www.etsi.org
  from their homepage following the route:
        ETSI bodies
        Tiphon
        Tiphon documents and reports
        document
        tiphon
        05-20003-Sophia
        17TD211 (this is it)
  Note that all "Tiphon" and "TMN" documents are accessible without a
  password if the above route is followed (They are the only such ETSI
  bodies). If you access via "docbox" , this requires ETSI registration,
  user id, etc...


------------------ invitation for May 24/25 meeting -----------------
Sophia-Antipolis, 12 April 2000
To the members of the JOINTNM list

Invitation to the Joint group of Network Management Meeting #2 
to be held from 24 May to 25 May 2000 hosted by ETSI TMN in Sophia-Antipolis

Dear Colleague,
On behalf of Frank Peeters [francois.c.peeters@alcatel.be], 
Chairman of ETSI TMN, ETSI has the pleasure to inform you of the
arrangements 
for the above-mentioned meeting. 

ADDRESS OF THE MEETINGCONTACT NUMBERS DURING THE MEETINGETSI
650 Route des Lucioles06921 Sophia AntipolisFrance
Phone:  +33 492 94 42 00 (switchboard)Fax:    +33 493 65 47 16

The meeting will start on 24 May at 09:00 and end on 25 May 2000 at 17:30.
Registration will take place on the first day of the meeting between 08:30
and 09:00
FOR DETAILS ON HOW TO PROVIDE DOCUMENTS FOR THE MEETING SEE PAGE 2
The secretary responsible of this meeting is Sabine Beauvois whom you may
contact 
for any administrative arrangements.
Tel: +33 (0)4 92 94 43 28
Fax: +33 (0)4 92 38 5228
E-mail: sabine.beauvois@etsi.fr
Please return the registration form preferably before 14 May 2000.
I look forward to seeing you in Sophia Antipolis.

Yours Sincerely



Marcello PagnozziTechnical Officer

Annexed: How to submit a document Registration form (to fill in and return)



IMPORTANT 
ETSI do normally use electronic working i.e. we will make available a
directory
on our server where documents submitted could be stored. 
http://docbox.etsi.org/Tech-Org/TMN/document/tmn/06-JOINTNM/Meet%232%202000_
05-Sophia/
as soon documents are available on the file server you can download them
without
needing any password, documents available before the start of the meeting
will not
be provided in paper copy.
In addition you can find there a wide range of useful information, 
how to get to ETSI premises, list of hotels at special rates 
(please use them only for meetings in ETSI premises), how meetings in ETSI
work...
* Delegates who would rather work with paper documents are requested to
bring 
  their owns, i.e. download and print.
* During the meeting the documents will be available in electronic format 
  on "docbox" (the above mentioned directory) and accessible via the meeting

  network or the Internet.
* Self service PCs with access to the network are available for delegates.
* You may log onto the ETSI network if you have a LAN card on your portable
PC. 
  For assistance see: http://www.etsi.org/helpdesk/FAQMeetingsNetwork.htm
* For documents produced during the meeting, paper copies will be provided
by 
  the secretary in charge of the meeting (Sabine Beauvois) upon request.

To SUBMIT documents for this meeting just send your documents to 
marcello.pagnozzi@etsi.fr who will arrange for the numbering and uploading.

--------------------------------------------------------

REGISTRATION FORMFOR THE ETSI JOINT Network Management group Meeting #2
24 May to 25 May 2000IN SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS



FILL IN THIS FORM AND SEND IT PREFERABLY BY 14 May 2000 
TO: sabine.beauvois@etsi.fr     Fax: +33 (0)4 92 38 5228

Title:                          Ms    Mrs     Mr   Other 

PARTICIPANT'S FAMILY NAME:



PARTICIPANT'S FIRST NAME:



COMPANY NAME:



Representing ETSI Member (If not just leave it blank):

Organization normally attended:

Role (chairman, delegate, etc..)

Mailing address:









Switchboard phone number:

Your extension number:

Fax number:

Your E-mail address:

Will you bring your laptop?             Yes                   No          

Date of arrival:

Date of departure:



I hereby confirm my intention to participate in this meeting.

Signature




P.S.: Participation to the meeting does not imply any meeting fee,
      you just need to arrange for your own expenses (hotel, travel, etc..).




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Does this list server support restricting posting to "list members only"?
Seems like we're enduring a *lot* of Spam lately...
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed May  3 23:57:37 2000
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From: cabletv4u2c@yahoo.com
Date: Wed, 03 May 00 21:58:44 EST
To: cabletv4u2c@yahoo.com
Message-ID: <>
Subject: [IPTEL] LEGAL CABLE TV
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> NOTE: THIS IS AN ADVERTISEMENT FOR LEGAL TV




> DE-SCRAMBLER IF YOU HAVE NO INTEREST IN THIS


   INFORMATION PLEASE CLICK DELETE NOW. THANK YOU




>




> LEGAL CABLE TV DE-SCRAMBLER




> Want to watch Sporting Events?--Movies?--Pay-Per-View??




> You can assemble it from electronic store parts for about $12.00.




> We Send You:




> E-Z To follow Assembly Instructions.




> E-Z To read Original Drawings.




> Electronic store parts list.




> PLUS SOMETHING NEW YOU MUST HAVE!




> Something you can't do without.




> THE UP-TO-DATE REPORT: USING A DESCRAMBLER LEGALLY




> Warning: You should not build a TV Descrambler without




> reading this report first.




> Frequently Asked Questions--CABLE TV DESCRAMBLER




> Q: Will the descrambler work on Fiber, TCI, Jarrod




> and satellite systems?




> A: The answer is YES. In respect to satellite,




> you just get more stuff! There is one exception:




> The descrambler will not work with DSS satellite.




> Q: Do I need a converter box?




   A: This plan works with or without a converter box.




> Specific instructions are included in the plans for each!




> Q: Can the cable company detect that I have the descrambler?




> A: No, the signal descrambles right at the box and does




> not move back through the line!




> Q: Do I have to alter my existing cable system,




> television or VCR?




> A: The answer is no!




> Q: Does this work with my remote control?




> A: The answer is yes. The descrambler is manually



       controlled--but very easy to use!




> Q: Can you email me the plans?




> A: No the program comes with an easy to follow picture guide.




> Q: Does this work everywhere across the country?




> A: Yes, every where in the USA plus England,




> Brazil, Canada and other countries!




> Q: Is this deal guaranteed?




> A: Yes, if you are unhappy for any reason we will refund your money.





 > ORDER INFORMATION:





> ACT WITHIN THE NEXT 14 DAYS AND RECEIVE TWO FREE BONUS!!




> THE CABLE MANUAL! This manual contains hard to find information your




> cable company does not want you to know. Also receive The RADAR




> JAMMER PLANS! Never get another speeding ticket. Build you own




> radar jammer, this unit will jam police radar so they can't get a reading




   on your vechicle. Radar jammers are legal in 48 states. It is simple to




   build.




> The FREE BONUSES ALONE ARE WORTH ACTING NOW!




> THE CABLE DESCRAMBLER KIT COMES WITH A THIRTY DAY




> MONEY BACK GUARANTEE! IF YOUR NOT COMPLETELY


   SATISFIED, SEND THE CABLE DESCRAMBLER KIT BACK


   AND YOU KEEP THE BONUSES FOR FREE. YOU HAVE 


   NOTHING TO LOSE, ONLY FREE CABLE TV TO GAIN!


   ACT NOW! SIMPLY SEND $14.00 CHECK , MONEY ORDER,


  OR CREDIT CARD INFORMATION








> TO: QUALITY RESOURCES




> 5399 EAST HWY C30-A #242




> SEAGROVE BEACH, FL 32459




>




> FOR CREDIT CARD ORDERS FILL OUT THIS FORM AND MAIL IN,




> ATTENTION QUALITY RESOURCES, here is my credit card information


   for the amount of $14.00 for the cable descrambler kit.




>




> ACCOUNT NUMBER____________________________________




> EXP. DATE____________________




> NAME_____________________________________________




> BILLING ADDRESS__________________________________________




> CITY/STATE/ZIP_____________________________________




> HOME PHONE__________________________________




>




> THIS INFORMATION IS SOLD FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY!




> This mailing is done by an independent marketing co.




> We apologize if this message has reached you in error.




> Save the Planet, Save the Trees! Advertise




> via E mail. No wasted paper! Delete with




> one simple keystroke! Less refuse in our Dumps!




> This is the new way of new millennium!





>  If you would like to be removed from our mailing list system2@dcemail.com




> please put remove in the subject line.




>






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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Thu May  4 11:51:58 2000
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Message-ID: <02c901bfb5e0$480a9ca0$63655582@NEPTUNE>
From: "Sharath" <srajas1@cs.umbc.edu>
To: "IETF IP Telephony" <iptel@lists.bell-labs.com>,
        <MEGACO@STANDARDS.NORTELNETWORKS.COM>
References: <4.1.20000503120509.0681fee0@mail.anonymizer.com>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 11:49:03 -0400
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Subject: [IPTEL] Question SIP-SS7 ?
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Hi,
I am doing simulations with SIP and SS7 Signaling and would like to have
some idea about the following -

1. What is the usual speed of the links that carry SS7 signaling ?
2. Is ATM used as a transport infrastructure for B-ISDN in current network
depolyments ?
3. What would be the typical capacity of the outgoing links in a
Media/Signaling Gateway for transport of voice and signaling ?
4. Is there some rough estimate of the the average delay encountered at the
Gateway, for translation of SIP to ISUP and vice versa ?

Thanks
Sharath



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sharath N. Rajasekar
Graduate Research Assistant
University of Maryland, Baltimore County
Maryland, 21250
USA
Ph: (410)-455-2860
srajas1@cs.umbc.edu




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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Thu May  4 12:30:13 2000
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From: <manager-one@ccnmail.com>
Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 05:39:25
Message-Id: <374.198160.697407@manager-one>
Subject: [IPTEL] Fulfill Your Potential
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THIS IS NOT SPAM.  THE FOLLOWING INFORMATION HAS BEEN REQUESTED BY YOU 
OR SOMEONE ELSE.  IF YOU WISH TO BE REMOVED FROM OUR MAILING LIST JUST 
TYPE THE WORD REMOVE IN THE SUBJECT AND E-MAIL TO 
MAMAGER-ONE@CCNMAIL.COM
________________________________________________________________________

WORK AT HOME USING YOUR COMPUTER!!!

Dear Friend,

You can earn $46,000 or more in next the 90 days sending e-mail.
Seem impossible? Read on for details (no, there is no "catch")...

"AS SEEN ON NATIONAL T.V."

Thank you for your time and Interest.

This is the letter you've been reading about in the news lately.

Due to the popularity of this letter on the internet, a major nightly 
news program recently devoted an entire show to the investigation of the 
program described below, to see if it really can make people money.

The show also investigated whether or not the program was legal.  Their 
findings proved once and for all that there are, absolutely no laws 
prohibiting the participation in the program. This has helped to show 
people that this is a simple, harmless and fun way to make some extra 
money at home.

The results of this show have been truly remarkable. So many people are 
participating that those involved are doing, much better than ever 
before.  Since everyone makes more as more people try it out, it's been 
very exciting to be a part of lately. You will understand once you 
experience it.

"HERE IT IS BELOW"


*** Print This Now For Future Reference ***

The following income opportunity is one you may be interested in taking 
a look at. It can be started with VERY LITTLE investment and the income 
return is TREMENDOUS!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

If you would like to make at least $46,000 in less than 90 days! Please 
read the enclosed program...THEN READ IT AGAIN!!!

$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

THIS IS A LEGITIMATE, LEGAL, MONEY MAKING OPPORTUNITY. It does not 
require you to come into contact with people, do any hard work, and best 
of all, you never have to leave the house except to get the mail. If you 
believe that someday you'll get that big break that you've been waiting 
for, THIS IS IT! Simply follow the instructions, and your dreams will 
come true.


This multi-level e-mail order marketing program works perfectly...100%
EVERY TIME. E-mail is the sales tool of the future. Take advantage of 
this non-commercialized method of advertising NOW!!! The longer you 
wait, the more people will be doing business using e-mail. Get your 
piece of this action!!!

MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING (MLM) has finally gained respectability. It is 
being taught in the Harvard Business School, and both Stanford Research 
and the Wall Street Journal have stated that between 50% and 65% of all 
goods and services will be sold through multi-level methods by the mid 
to late 1990's.

This is a Multi-Billion Dollar industry and of the 3,500,000 
millionaires in the WORLD, 20% (700,000) made their fortune in the last 
several years in MLM. Moreover, statistics show that over 100 people 
become millionaires everyday through Multi-Level Marketing.

You may have heard this story before, but over the summer Donald Trump 
(A MULTI-BILLIONAIRE, ONE OF THE WEALTHIEST MEN IN THE WORLD) made an 
appearance on the David Letterman show. Dave asked him what he would do 
if he lost everything and had to start over from scratch. Without 
hesitating, Trump said he would find a good network marketing company 
and get to work.  The audience started to hoot and boo him. He looked 
out at the audience and dead-panned his response "That's why I'm sitting 
up here and you are all sitting out there!"

With network marketing you have two sources of income. Direct 
commissions from sales you make yourself and commissions from sales made 
by people you introduce to the business.

Residual income is the secret of the wealthy. It means investing time or 
money once and getting paid again and again and again. In network 
marketing, it also means getting paid for the work of others.

This program is currently being utilized in more than 50 different 
countries across the world.

The enclosed INF0RMATION is something I almost let slip through my 
fingers.  Fortunately, sometime later I re-read everything and gave some 
thought and study to it.

My name is Johnathon Rourke. Two years ago, the corporation I worked at 
for the past twelve years downsized and my position was eliminated.  
After unproductive job interviews, I decided to open my own business.  
Over the past year, I incurred many unforeseen financial problems. I 
owed my family, friends and creditors over $35,000. The economy was 
taking a toll on my business and I just couldn't seem to make ends meet. 
I had to refinance and borrow against my home to support my family and 
struggling business.

AT THAT MOMENT something significant happened in my life and I am 
writing to share the experience in hopes that this will change your life 
FOREVER FINANCIALLY!!!

In mid December, I received this program via e-mail. Six month's prior 
to receiving this program I had been sending away for INF0RMATION on 
various business opportunities. All of the programs I received, in my 
opinion, were not cost effective. They were either too difficult for me 
to comprehend or the initial investment was too much for me to risk to 
see if they would work or not. One claimed that I would make a million 
dollars in one year...it didn't tell me I'd have to write a book to make 
it!

But like I was saying, in December of 1997 I received this program.  I 
didn't send for it, or ask for it, they just got my name off a mailing 
list. THANK GOODNESS FOR THAT!!! After reading it several times, to make 
sure I was reading it correctly, I couldn't believe my eyes. Here was a 
MONEY MAKING PHENOMENON. I could invest as much as I wanted to start, 
without putting me further into debt.  After I got a pencil and paper 
and figured it out, I would at least get my money back. But like most of 
you I was still a little skeptical and a little worried about the legal 
aspects of it all. So I checked it out with the U.S. Post Office 
(1-800-725-2161 24-hrs) and they confirmed that it is indeed legal! 
After determining the program was LEGAL and NOT A CHAIN LETTER, I 
decided "WHY NOT."

Initially I sent out 100,000 e-mails. It cost me about $15 for my time 
on-line. The great thing about e-mail is that I don't need any money for 
printing to send out the program, and because all of my orders are 
fulfilled via e-mail, the only expense is my time. I am telling you like 
it is, I hope it doesn't turn you off, but I promised myself that I 
would not "rip-off" anyone, no matter how much money it cost me.

In less than one week, I was starting to receive orders for REPORT #1.  
By January 13, I had received 26 orders for REPORT #1. Your goal is to 
"RECEIVE at least 20 ORDERS FOR REPORT #1 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF YOU DON'T,
SEND OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO!" My first step in making $46,000 in 
90 days was done.

By January 30, I had received 196 orders for REPORT #2.  Your goal is to 
"RECEIVE AT LEAST 100+ ORDERS FOR REPORT #2 WITHIN 2 WEEKS. IF NOT, SEND
OUT MORE PROGRAMS UNTIL YOU DO. ONCE YOU HAVE 100 ORDERS, THE REST IS 
EASY, RELAX, YOU WILL MAKE YOUR $46,000 GOAL." Well, I had 196 orders 
for REPORT #2, 96 more than I needed. So I sat back and relaxed.

By March 1, of my e-mailing of 100,000, I received $58,000 with more 
coming in every day.

I paid off ALL my debts and bought a much-needed new car. Please take 
time to read the attached program, IT WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER!!!  
Remember, it won't work if you don't try it. This program does work, but 
you must follow it EXACTLY, especially the rules of not trying to place 
your name in a different place. It won't work, you'll lose out on a lot 
of money! 

In order for this program to work, you must meet your goal of 20+ orders 
for REPORT #1, and 100+ orders for REPORT #2 and you will make $46,000 
or more in 90 days. I AM LIVING PROOF THAT IT WORKS!!!

If you choose not to participate in this program, I am sorry. It really 
is a great opportunity with little cost or risk to you. If you choose to 
participate, follow the program and you will be on your way to financial 
security.

If you are a fellow business owner and are if financial trouble like 
I was, or you want to start your own business, consider this a sign. I 
DID!

Sincerely,

Johnathon Rourke


A PERSONAL NOTE FROM THE ORIGINATOR OF THIS PROGRAM:

By the time you have read the enclosed program and reports, you should 
have concluded that such a program, and one that is legal, could not 
have been created by an amateur.

Let me tell you a little about myself. I had a profitable business for 
10 years. Then in 1979 my business began falling off. I was doing the 
same things that were previously successful for me, but it wasn't 
working.  Finally, I figured it out.  It wasn't me, it was the economy. 
Inflation and recession had replaced the stable economy that had been 
with us since 1945.  I don't have to tell you what happened to the 
unemployment rate, because many of you know from first hand experience. 
There were more failures and bankruptcies than ever before.

The middle class was vanishing. Those who knew what they were doing 
invested wisely and moved up. Those who did not, including those who 
never had anything to save or invest, were moving down into the ranks of 
the poor. As the saying goes, "THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET 
POORER."  The traditional methods of making money will never allow you 
to "move up" or "get rich", inflation will see to that.

You have just received INF0RMATION that can give you financial freedom 
for the rest of your life, with "NO RISK" and "JUST A LITTLE BIT OF 
EFFORT."
You can make more money in the next few months than you have ever 
imagined.

I should also point out that I will not see a penny of this money, nor 
anyone else who has provided a testimonial for this program. I have 
already made over 4 MILLION DOLLARS! I have retired from the program 
after sending out over 1,600,000 programs. Now I have several offices 
that make this and several other programs here and over seas.

Follow the program EXACTLY AS INSTRUCTED. Do not change it in any way.  
It works exceedingly well as it is now. Remember to e-mail a copy of 
this exciting report to everyone you can think of.  One of the people 
you send this to may send out 100,000 or more...and your name will be on 
everyone of them! Remember though, the more you send out the more 
potential customers you will reach.

So my friend, I have given you the ideas, INF0RMATION, materials and 
opportunity to become financially independent, IT IS UP TO YOU NOW!

"THINK ABOUT IT"

Before you delete this program from your mailbox, as I almost did, take 
a little time to read it and REALLY THINK ABOUT IT. Get a pencil and 
figure out what could happen when YOU participate. Figure out the worst 
possible response and no matter how you calculate it, you will still 
make a lot of money! You will definitely get back what you invested. Any 
doubts you have will vanish when your first orders come in. IT WORKS!
Jody Jacobs, Richmond, VA

HERE'S HOW THIS AMAZING PROGRAM WILL MAKE YOU THOUSANDS OF DOLLAR$

INSTRUCTIONS:

This method of raising capital REALLY WORKS 100% EVERY TIME. I am sure 
that you could use up to $46,000 or more in the next 90 days. Before you 
say: "BULL.... ", please read this program carefully. This is not a 
chain letter, but a perfectly legal money making opportunity. Basically, 
this is what you do: 

As with all multi-level businesses, we build our business by recruiting 
new partners and selling our products. Because of the global nature of 
the internet, you will be able to recruit new multi-level business 
partners from all over the world, and we offer a product for EVERY 
dollar sent. YOUR ORDERS COME BY MAIL AND ARE FILLED BY E-MAIL, so you 
are not involved in personal selling. You do it privately in your own 
home, store or office.  This is the GREATEST Multi-Level Mail Order 
Marketing anywhere.

This is what you MUST do:

1. Order all 5 reports shown on the list below (you can't sell them if 
you don't order them).

a. For each report, send $5.00 CASH, the NAME & NUMBER OF THE REPORT YOU
ARE ORDERING, YOUR E-MAIL ADDRESS, and YOUR NAME & RETURN ADDRESS (in 
case of a problem) to the person whose name appears on the list next to 
the report.  MAKE SURE YOUR RETURN ADDRESS IS ON YOUR ENVELOPE IN CASE 
OF ANY MAIL PROBLEMS!

b. When you place your order, make sure you order each of the five 
reports.  You will need all five reports so that you can save them on 
your computer and resell them.

c. Within a few days you will receive, via e-mail, each of the five 
reports. Save them on your computer so they will be accessible for you 
to send to the 1,000's of people who will order them from you.

2. IMPORTANT-- DO NOT alter the names of the people who are listed next 
to each report, or their sequence on the list, in any way other than is 
instructed below in steps "a" through "g" or you will lose out on the 
majority of your profits. Once you understand the way this works, you'll 
also see how it doesn't work if you change it. Remember, this method has 
been tested, and if you alter it, it will not work.

a. Look below for the listing of available reports.

b. After you've ordered the five reports, take this advertisement and 
REM0VE the name and address under REPORT #5. This person has made it 
through the cycle and is no doubt counting their $46,000! Also, change 
the name of the company, the address, and the REM0VE e-mail address on 
the top of this document to your own.

c. Move the name and address under REPORT #4 down to REPORT #5.

d. Move the name and address under REPORT #3 down to REPORT #4.

e. Move the name and address under REPORT #2 down to REPORT #3.

f. Move the name and address under REPORT #1 down to REPORT #2.

g. Insert your name/address in the REPORT #1 position.

Please make sure you copy every name and address ACCURATELY!

3. Take this entire letter, including the modified list of names, and 
save it to your computer. Make NO changes to the instruction portion of 
this letter.

Your cost to participate in this is practically nothing (surely you can 
afford $25). You obviously already have an Internet connection and 
e-mail is FREE!

To assist you with marketing your business on the internet, the 5 
reports you purchase will provide you with invaluable marketing 
INF0RMATION which includes how to send bulk e-mails, where to find 
thousands of free classified ads and much, much more.

In addition you will be provided with INF0MATION on Internet Marketing 
Clubs such as INTERNET MARKETING RESOURCES (IMR): This is one the 
premiere internet marketing clubs on the INTERNET. This club provides a 
forum where internet marketers from all over the world can exchange 
ideas and secrets on Internet Marketing. In addition, members of this 
club are provided free internet marketing tools and services for the
Do-Yourself-Internet-Marketer.

They will provide you with free bulk e-mail software and up to 1,000,000 
fresh e-mail addresses each week. This club will provide you with 
hundreds of free resources that include: How to obtain free web sites, 
how to obtain top rankings in search engines for your web-site, how to 
send bulk e-mail into AOL and Compuserve, how to market your products on 
newsgroups, free classified ads, electronic malls, bulletin boards, 
banner ads and much more.

There are two primary methods of building your downline:

METHOD #1: SENDING BULK E-MAIL

Let's say that you decide to start small, just to see how it goes, and 
we'll assume you and all those involved send out only 2,000 programs 
each.  Let's also assume that the mailing receives a 0.3% response.  
Using a good list the response could be much better. Also, many people 
will send out hundreds of thousands of programs instead of 2,000. But 
continuing with this example, you send out only 2,000 programs. With a 
0.3% response, that is only 6 orders for REPORT #1. Those 6 people 
respond by sending out 2,000 programs each for a total of 12,000. Out of 
those 0.3%, 36 people respond and order REPORT #2. Those 36 mail out 
2,000 programs each for a total of 72,000. The 0.3% response to that is 
216 orders for REPORT #3.  Those 216 send out 2,000 programs each for a 
432,000 total.  The 0.3% response to that is 1,296 orders for REPORT #4. 
Those 1,296 send out 2,000 programs each for a 2,592,000 total. The 0.3% 
response to that is 7,776 orders for REPORT #5.

That's 7,776 $5 bills for you, CASH!!! Your total income in this 
example is $30 + $180 + $1,080+ $6,480 + $38,880 for a total of 
$46,650!!!

REMEMBER, FRIEND, THIS IS ASSUMING 1,994 OUT OF THE 2,000 PEOPLE 
YOU MAIL TO WILL DO ABSOLUTELY NOTHING AND TRASH THIS PROGRAM! DARE TO 
THINK FOR A MOMENT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN IF EVERYONE, OR HALF SENT OUT 
100,000 PROGRAMS INSTEAD OF 2,000.  Believe me, many people will do just 
that, and more!  By the way, your cost to participate in this is 
practically nothing. You obviously already have an internet connection 
and e-mail is FREE!!!

REPORT #2 and #5 will show you the best methods for bulk emailing, tell 
you where to obtain free bulk e-mail software and where to obtain e-mail 
lists and show you how to send out 1,000,000 e-mails for free.

METHOD #2 - PLACING FREE ADS ON THE INTERNET

1. Advertising on the 'Net is very, very inexpensive, and there are 
HUNDREDS of FREE places to advertise. Let's say you decide to start 
small just to see how well it works. Assume your goal is to get ONLY 6 
people to participate on your first level. (Placing a lot of FREE ads on 
the internet will EASILY get a larger response.) Also assume that 
everyone else in YOUR ORGANIZATION gets ONLY 6 downline members. Follow 
this example to achieve the STAGGERING results below.

1st level--your 6 members with $5 ($5 x 6)........................$30
2nd level--6 members from those 6 ($5 x 36)....................$180
3rd level--6 members from those 36 ($5 x 216)............ $1,080
4th level--6 members from those 216 ($5 x 1,296)....... $6,480
5th level-6 members from those 1,296 ($5 x 7,776)... $38,880
.................................................$46,650


Remember friends, this assumes that the people who participate only 
recruit 6 people each. Think for a moment what would happen if they got 
20 people to participate! Many people will get 100's of participants!
THINK ABOUT IT!

For every $5.00 you receive, all you must do is e-mail them the report 
they ordered. THAT'S IT! ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON ALL 
ORDERS!  This will guarantee that the e-mail THEY send out, with YOUR 
name and address on it, will be prompt because they can't advertise 
until they receive the report!

AVAILABLE REPORTS

*** Order Each REPORT by NUMBER and NAME ***

Notes:

ALWAYS SEND $5 CASH (U.S. CURRENCY) FOR EACH REPORT
CHECKS NOT ACCEPTED
ALWAYS SEND YOUR ORDER VIA FIRST CLASS MAIL
Make sure the cash is concealed by wrapping it in at least two sheets of 
paper. On one of those sheets of paper, include: (a) the number & name 
of the report you are ordering, (b) your e-mail address, and (c) your 
name & postal address.

PLACE YOUR ORDER FOR THESE REPORTS NOW:
______________________________________________________

REPORT #1 "The Insider's Guide to Advertising for Free on the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #1 FROM:

K and P Scott
48832 Andorra Street
Indio CA 92201
______________________________________________________

REPORT #2 "The Insider's Guide to Sending Bulk E-mail on the 
Internet"

ORDER REPORT #2 FROM:

Michele Richter
P.O. Box 4534
Fort Lauderdale, Fl. 33338-4534

______________________________________________________

REPORT #3 "The Secrets to Multilevel Marketing on the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #3 FROM:

Paul Bowen
1105 Amble Lane
Clearwater, FL
33755

______________________________________________________

REPORT #4 "How to become a Millionaire utilizing the Power of 
Multilevel
Marketing and the Internet"

ORDER REPORT #4 FROM:

RML, Inc.
1584 Huron Church Road
Suite 105
Windsor, ON
N9C 2L1

______________________________________________________

REPORT #5 "How to SEND 1,000,000 e-mails for FREE"

ORDER REPORT #5 FROM:

Ray Jones
113 Thunderlane
Mena, AR 71953-7714
______________________________________________________

______________________________________________________

There currently more than 175,000,000 people online worldwide!


******* TIPS FOR SUCCESS *******

* TREAT THIS AS YOUR BUSINESS! Be prompt, professional, and follow the 
directions accurately.

* Send for the five reports IMMEDIATELY so you will have them when the 
orders start coming in because:

* When you receive a $5 order, you MUST send out the requested 
product/report.

* ALWAYS PROVIDE SAME-DAY SERVICE ON THE ORDERS YOU RECEIVE.

* Be patient and persistent with this program. If you follow the 
instructions exactly, your results WILL BE SUCCESSFUL!

* ABOVE ALL, HAVE FAITH IN YOURSELF AND KNOW YOU WILL SUCCEED!

******* YOUR SUCCESS GUIDELINES *******

Follow these guidelines to guarantee your success:

If you don't receive 20 orders for REPORT #1 within two weeks, continue 
advertising or sending e-mails until you do. Then, a couple of weeks 
later you should receive at least 100 orders for REPORT#2. If you don't, 
continue advertising or sending e-mails until you do.

Once you have received 100 or more orders for REPORT #2, YOU CAN RELAX, 
because the system is already working for you, and the cash will 
continue to roll in!

THIS IS IMPORTANT TO REMEMBER:

Every time your name is moved down on the list, you are placed in front 
of a DIFFERENT report. You can KEEP TRACK of your PROGRESS by watching 
which report people are ordering from you. If you want to generate more 
income, send another batch of e-mails or continue placing ads and start 
the whole process again! There is no limit to the income you will 
generate from this business!

Before you make your decision as to whether or not you participate in 
this program, please answer one question: DO YOU WANT TO CHANGE YOUR 
LIFE?  If the answer is yes, please look at the following facts about 
this program:

1. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT THAT DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO PRODUCE!

2. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT THAT DOES NOT COST ANYTHING TO SHIP!

3. YOU ARE SELLING A PRODUCT THAT DOES NOT COST YOU ANYTHING TO 
ADVERTISE!

4. YOU ARE UTILIZING THE POWER OF THE INTERNET AND THE POWER OF 
MULTI-LEVEL MARKETING TO DISTRIBUTE YOUR PRODUCT ALL OVER THE WORLD!

5. YOUR ONLY EXPENSES OTHER THAN YOUR INITIAL $25 INVESTMENT IS YOUR 
TIME!

6. VIRTUALLY ALL OF THE INCOME YOU GENERATE FROM THIS PROGRAM IS PURE 
PROFIT!

7. THIS PROGRAM WILL CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOREVER.

******* T E S T I M O N I A L S *******

This program does work, but you must follow it EXACTLY!  Especially the 
rule of not trying to place your name in a different position, it won't 
work and you'll lose a lot of potential income. I'm living proof that it 
works. It really is a great opportunity to make relatively easy money, 
with little cost to you. If you do choose to participate, follow the 
program exactly, and you'll be on your way to financial security.
Fred Dellaca, Westport, New Zealand

My name is Mitchell. My wife, Jody, and I live in Chicago, IL. I am a 
cost accountant with a major U.S. Corporation and I make pretty good 
money. When I received the program I grumbled to Jody about receiving 
"junk mail." I made fun of the whole thing, spouting my knowledge of the 
population and percentages involved. I "knew" it wouldn't work. Jody 
totally ignored my supposed intelligence and jumped in with both feet. I 
made merciless fun of her, and was ready to lay the old "I told you so" 
on her when the thing didn't work... well, the laugh was on me! Within 
two weeks she had received over 50 responses. Within 45 days she had 
received over $147,200 in $5 bills! I was shocked! I was sure that I had 
it all figured and that it wouldn't work. I AM a believer now. I have 
joined Jody in her "hobby." I did have seven more years until 
retirement, but I think of the "rat race" and it's not for me.  We owe 
it all to MLM.
Mitchell Wolf MD., Chicago, IL

The main reason for this letter is to convince you that this system is 
honest, lawful, extremely profitable, and is a way to get a large amount 
of money in a short time. I was approached several times before I 
checked this out. I joined just to see what one could expect in return 
for the minimal effort and money required. To my astonishment, I 
received $36,470.00 in the first 14 weeks, with money still coming in.
Sincerely yours,
Pam Hedland Halmstad, Sweden


I had received this program before. I deleted it, but later I wondered 
if I shouldn't have given it a try. Of course, I had no idea who to 
contact to get another copy, so I had to wait until I was e-mailed 
another program.  11 months passed then it came...I didn't delete this 
one!  I made more than $41,000 on the first try!!
Mohamed, Cairo, Egypt

This is my third time to participate in this plan. We have quit our 
jobs, and will soon buy a home on the beach and live off the interest on 
our money. The only way on earth that this plan will work for you is if 
you do it.  For your sake, and for your family's sake don't pass up this 
golden opportunity. 
Good luck and happy spending!
Sam Lee Suva, Fiji Islands


ORDER YOUR REPORTS TODAY AND GET STARTED ON YOUR ROAD TO FINANCIAL 
FREEDOM!

NOW IS THE TIME FOR YOUR TURN

DECISIVE ACTION YIELDS POWERFUL RESULTS 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 


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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Thu May  4 22:19:05 2000
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Date: Thu, 4 May 2000 22:13:43 -0400
Subject: [IPTEL] Late Breaking NEWS!
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Why are you receiving this email? 
--------------------------------- 

Either You have subscribed or you have requested 
information on our products and services.  You have
given us permission to send you this email.

BLAST YOUR AD TO MILLIONS OF WEB SITES!

Now you can post your ad INSTANTLY to MILLIONS
of REAL classified sites!  And, you can REPOST it 
EVERY single day of the year!  DIRT CHEAP!

If you want to promote your product or service
on the Internet (and make money in the process), 
you must advertise HEAVILY!

In order to get RESULTS your ad needs exposure, 
BIG exposure!  You must post your ad to hundreds
of websites.  MILLIONS is even better.

With this kind of exposure, you will receive your 
first orders in a matter of minutes!  Get ready to 
handle a HUGE volume of responses starting
tonight!

Make sure you have enough room in your checking 
account for the steady stream of checks, money-orders 
and credit-card orders that YOU will soon be receiving 
daily (assuming that you have a good product or service 
to offer to your potential customers)!

Why waste your time and energy with the manual posting 
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it almost INSTANTLY and CONTINUOUSLY.

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==================================
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==================================

Hurry up and join our growing list of repeat advertisers.
Here is your chance to put your business on "AUTO-PILOT"!

__________________________________________________

This eZine is sent to members of The Classified 
Advertisers to keep you abreast of late breaking news, 
and useful tips to enhance your results.

If you are not a member and have received this eZine
in error, please reply to this email to unsubscribe.


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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Thu May  4 22:38:45 2000
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From: "Natalia Palumbo" <nataliapalumbo@steel.com.ar>
To: "iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com" <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
Date: Thu, 04 May 2000 22:53:59 -0300
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Seguramente, al menos una vez, habrás recibido invitaciones del tipo:
"Hacete millonario navegando" o "cuidado con el virus que te destroza hasta el alma" y cosas por el estilo. Sin duda, esto es
una gran mentira. Ambas caras de estas historias, incluso la que te
permite hacerte de unos pesos extras por estar conectado a la red (de
verdad), podés encontrarlas en:

www.steel.com.ar/ganadinero_ar/

Es una página totalmente informativa y en la que vas a poder descargar
tu angustia si sos un damnificado o compartir tu experiencia si ya
cobraste por alguno de los servicios. Además hay detalles sobre los HOAXES que mas circularon este mes como el de los Niños robados, Nuevo virus, el del ángel guardian, etc.e info sobre los virus mas recientes y de alto riesgo para Argentina.(Sabías que el BubbleBoy es el primer virus que se instala con solo abrir el correo?).
A partir de hoy, desde el sitio, es posible hacer, SIN CARGO, ilimitada cantidad de llamadas a USA. 
Depende del grado participativo de
la gente que lo visite para que este sitio siga creciendo y cada día
haya menos cantidad de personas engañadas.
Si te gusta, recomendáselo a un amigo.
Tu dirección de correo llegó a mí en una lista contenida en un HOAX. Por este motivo consideré que tengo pleno derecho a contestarte.
Si preferís no recibir e-mails míos, enviame un mensaje a: borrame@steel.com.ar

Afectuosamente,

Natalia.




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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Fri May  5 19:36:22 2000
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Subject: [IPTEL] Take control of your future now
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Have you ever dreamed of:
 
- Owning Your Own Time? 

- Controlling your Financial Future? 

- Feeling Good about what you do and Helping Others? 

Are you:

- Tired of working for someone else and getting paid what "they" feel you're worth?

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THEN CHECK THIS OUT

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You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, so call NOW!


To be removed reply with remove in the subject

 You will not be removed by calling the 800 number!
























Have you ever dreamed of:
 
- Owning Your Own Time? 







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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sat May  6 09:10:13 2000
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Subject: [IPTEL] president please/cash in advance foreign buyer
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Can you use a good distributor in South America?
This will be on a cash basis on a steady basis.


Jose Carr
Helen Astor

Email us here please

int873@angelfire.com
jose7223@newyorkcity.com
jose811@canoemail.com


Additionally you can

 fax us at 5305098416
(U.S. fax number that we will get electronicaly )
include your email address and contact person please.





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  </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D9>Name__________________________________=
_______________<BR>
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  City_______________________State_______Zip______________<BR>
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  CreditCard____________________________MC/ V/ AmEx<BR>
  <BR>
  Card Number___________________________________________<BR>
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  Expiration Date_______________<BR>
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  I wish to order_____Bottle(s) </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D10><BR>
  <B><BR>
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f your   order .</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D10><BR>
  </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D8> This e-mail message is being sent in =
accordance   with proposed <BR>
  U.S. Federal regulations for commercial e-mail as well as the <BR>
  Washington state commercial e-mail law. <BR>
  To be removed from list click <A HREF=3D"stanton@uol.com.ar?subject=3Dre=
move">   REMOVE</A><BR>
  </FONT><FONT  SIZE=3D3 PTSIZE=3D10><BR>
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</FONT><FONT  SIZE=3D2 PTSIZE=3D8><BR>
  <BR>
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<BR>
<BR>
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sat May  6 22:09:47 2000
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Subject: [IPTEL] Join For Free! Guaranteed Downline and Income!                                    [mlgtj]
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au1.ibm.com;
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Message-ID: <CA2568D9.00418804.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:18 +0530
Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-iptel-gwloc-framework-06.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Telephony Working Group of the IETF.

     Title          : A Framework for Telephony Routing over IP
     Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, H. Schulzrinne
     Filename  : draft-ietf-iptel-gwloc-framework-06.txt
     Pages          : 24
     Date      : 30-Nov-99

This document serves as a framework for Telephony Routing over IP
(TRIP), which supports the discovery and exchange of IP telephony
gateway routing tables between providers. The document defines the
problem of telephony routing exchange, and motivates the need for the
protocol. It presents an architectural framework for TRIP, defines
terminology, specifies the various protocol elements and their
functions, overviews the services provided by the protocol, and
discusses how it fits into the broader context of Internet telephony.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-iptel-gwloc-framework-06.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the
username
"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in,
type "cd internet-drafts" and then
     "get draft-ietf-iptel-gwloc-framework-06.txt".

A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in
http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html
or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt


Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail.

Send a message to:
     mailserv@ietf.org.
In the body type:
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NOTE:     The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in
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Subject: [IPTEL] CFP on JCN Special Issue on Internet QOS - Deadline Extended
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         JOURNAL OF COMMUNICATIONS AND NETWORKING (JCN)

 CALL FOR PAPERS - SPECIAL ISSUE ON QoS IN IP NETWORKS
                        JUNE, 2000

 ---> DEADLINE EXTENDED to January 31, 2000

A Special Issue of JCN dedicated to the realization of QoS-sensitive
services in IP networks will be published in June, 2000.  It will be
Guest Edited by Prof. Henning Schulzrinne of Columbia University,
Prof. Hideo Miyahara of Osaka University, and Prof. Luigi Fratta of
the University of Milan.  The topics include but are not limited to:

Differentiated Services
Integrated Services
MPLS
Real-time multicast
IP network traffic engineering
Performance measurement and evaluation
Pricing and billing
User perception of QOS
QOS policy management
Adaptive and other new service models
Light-weight reservation protocols and aggregation

Continuing JCN's tradition of fast turnaround together with full peer
reviews, the following schedule has been set:

Jan. 31, 2000   Submit manuscript via web page (see below)

Mar. 31, 2000   First reviews returned to author, revisions returned
                within three weeks

June, 2000      Special Issue published

The guest editors are
Prof. Luigi Fratta  <fratta@elet.polimi.it>
Prof. Hideo Miyahara <miyahara@mercury.nal.ics.es.osaka-u.ac.jp>
Prof. Henning Schulzrinne <hgs@cs.columbia.edu>

Papers should be submitted via the procedure described at

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs/edas/JCN

Only PostScript and PDF formats are accepted.

Further information about JCN is available at http://JCN.snu.ac.kr.
JCN is a high-quality quarterly archival journal, published by the
Korean Institute of Communications Sciences with the technical
cosponsorship of the IEEE Communications Society, covering the fields of
Communication Theory and Systems, Wireless Communications, and Networks
and Services.  JCN began publication in March, 1999.


---------
This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.





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To: James Yu <james.yu@neustar.com>
Cc: "'Vance Shipley'" <vances@motivity.ca>,
        John Mainwaring <crm312a@nortelnetworks.com>,
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We've discussed this on the list. Several folks pointed out that
European systems support overlap, and it was decided that it was not
reasonable to mandate the originating gateway to do digit collection to
convert this to en-bloc, although it could be optionally done.

-Jonathan R.

James Yu wrote:
>
> Vance,
>
> Thanks for the explanation.
>
> The key questions now are whether overlap signaling (e.g., Feature
Group-D
> over Multi-Frequency facility) is still used somewhere and if used where
the
> digit collection/enbloc signaling is performed in the existing SCN.
>
> If overlap signaling is still used (someone please confirm this and
indicate
> where it is still used) and a call is to be routed from the originating
SCN
> to the Internet, I guess that the originating GW (SCN-Internet)probably
has
> to perform the digit collection/enbloc signaling function so that overlap
> signaling does not propagate further into the Internet and/or the
> destination GW/SCN.  Otherwise, some entities in the Internet must
perform
> that function.
>
> James
>
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
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--> Bogdan Ghita writes:
>I have three questions related to RTP/RTCP.

RTP related questions should be asked on the AVT working group's list
rem-conf@es.net.

>1. Are there any  tools for monitoring RTP/RTCP (free or commercial)? I
>am interested especially in RTP analysis, and not RTCP parsing. And, if
>there are, which are their capabilities?
>In order to restrict the range of replies, I must mention that I've
>already found:
>- Hammer VoIP Test System - analysing all the parameters (drop packets,
>jitter, delay) within a VoIP call
>- HP Internet Advisor - similar
>(for these two commercial packages, I couldn't get more information
>about what actually is monitored)
>- rtpmon, which is free, but, in spite of its name, it is an RTCP
>monitor.
>
>2. Can anybody explain me what is the structure of a compound RTCP
>packet? I know, from the RTP specification, that it looks like this:
>
>if encrypted: random 32-bit integer
>|
>|[------- packet -------][----------- packet -----------][-packet-]
>|
>| receiver reports chunk chunk
>V item item item item
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>|R[SR|# sender #site#site][SDES|# CNAME PHONE |#CNAME LOC][BYE##why]
>|R[  |# report #  1 #  2 ][    |#             |#         ][   ##   ]
>|R[  |#        #    #    ][    |#             |#         ][   ##   ]
>|R[  |#        #    #    ][    |#             |#         ][   ##   ]
>--------------------------------------------------------------------
>|<------------------ UDP packet (compound packet) --------------->|
>#: SSRC/CSRC
>
>The question is, as I couldn't understand the figure: how is the above
>figure packetised in UDP packets (is it 'line-by-line') ?

The random prefix (if any) is put at the start of the UDP packet, then
the RTCP packets comprising the compound are concatenated into a single
UDP packet.

>3. Are there any standards for encrypting RTP/RTCP (in relation with
>H.323) ? Besides inserting the 32-bit integer in the RTCP packet and
>using DES there is nothing else specified.

The a/v profile (RFC1890) allows for any encryption algorithm to be used,
with the algorithm identifier being prefixed onto the encryption key
followed by a "/" character. One can also use IPsec.

Colin

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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Telephony Working Group of the IETF.

     Title          : Call Processing Language Framework and Requirements
     Author(s) : J. Lennox, H. Schulzrinne
     Filename  : draft-ietf-iptel-cpl-framework-02.txt
     Pages          : 25
     Date      : 27-Jan-00

A large number of the services we wish to make possible for Internet
telephony require fairly elaborate combinations of signalling
operations, often in network devices, to complete. We want a simple
and standardized way to create such services to make them easier to
implement and deploy.  This document describes an architectural
framework for such a mechanism, which we call a call processing
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James Yu wrote:
>
> The telephone number ranges used for routing decisions need to consider
the
> impacts of number portability when routing calls to the SCNs where number
> portability is supported.  For example, the subscriber number (e.g.,
dialed
> number) and the network routing number (e.g., the Location Routing Number
or
> LRN) are in two different domains in the North America.  In Europe, the
> routing prefix plays a similar role as the LRN (one difference is that
the
> LRN identifies a specific switch while the routing prefix may identify a
> switch or just a network).
>
> If TRIP is used to pass routing information, it should be decided whether
> the "telephone number" is the subscriber number or the LRN/routing
prefix.
> My opinion is that it should be the LRN/routing prefix.  This will keep
the
> routing information static rather than dynamic (e.g., changes every time
a
> number is ported).  Any other thoughts?

I have a question. In your other message, you mention that the LRNs
identify switches, and that they do overlap with the subscriber numbers.
Thats actually OK, so long as the overlap is such that the LRN is for
the switch serving those subscribers whose numbers the switch overlaps.
In other words, if a switch has an LRN that is +1 212 455, that OK so
long as this switch serves the subscribers with numbers +1 212 455-0000
to +1 212 455-9999. The reason that this is OK is that a longest prefix
match on the LRN or a subscriber would still get you the right gateway.
So, my question is: is this the case? Or, is it the case that the LRN
has no relationship with the subscriber numbers it overlaps.

-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
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To: James Yu <james.yu@neustar.com>
Cc: John Mainwaring <crm312a@nortelnetworks.com>,
        Mark Foster <mark.foster@neustar.com>,
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James Yu wrote:
>
> For overlap signaling, a GW or LS that receives a call with partial
address
> information may not know that the address info. is complete.  If it
launches
> a query (DNS or NPDB), the entity that has the "number portability" info.
> won't be able to find the info. because the address info. is incomplete.
It
> seems that either this LS or GW may wait a little while to see whether
there
> are subsequent address info. before launching the query, or it can launch
a
> query (DNS or NPDB-like), receives an error (hope that it is specific
such
> as incomplete address instead of something ambiguous), and then wait for
> additional address info. before timing out.

I think Dean had sent out some pseudo-code some time back on how trip
and enum and overlap interact, and this was more or less what the code
suggested. I believe he thought it was a bad thing, and so do I.

Overlap dialing seems fundamentally in conflict with LNP or enum queries
at the local outbound proxy.

To do LNP, the local outbound proxy needs to have the entire string of
digits before it can perform the query. But, overlap seems to imply that
it won't ever know the entire string of digits, as it doesn't have
knowledge of those numbering plans. It just forwards the request to some
other proxy or gateway that does.

Sooo, it would seem that a proxy should only use enum or LNP for numbers
it knows to be complete. This means that for overlap dialing, the LNP
query will happen close to the destination (possibly even in the PSTN),
not unlike the N-1 case we've been discussing. However, for en-bloc, it
can happen anywhere. This does seem to imply that a proxy needs to know
whether the number in the request URI of an incoming request is en-bloc
or overlap. It could make this determination if it knew the structure of
the numbering plans, but thats unlikely. Might we need a parameter
somewhere (ugh)? I really hate to crowd SIP with things to support old
legacy technologies like overlap, so if we can avoid this, I'd be very
happy.



-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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James Yu wrote:
>
> I think TRIP should carry subscriber numbers, but that the LNP dip
> should happen before the TRIP database is accessed. So, returning to
> your example, a gateway reaching only switch A would advertise
> +1-212-455* and a gateway reaching only switch B +1-212-466*. A PC users
> calls +1-212-455-1234. The INVITE is sent to its local proxy, which
> first does an LNP dip. It translates this to an LRN of +1-212-456, which
> is looked up in TRIP. The longest prefix match (which is an exact match
> for the LRN) is found. The INVITE is then sent to the next hop towards
> that LRN as learned through TRIP. The original dialed number will be
> carried in the To field.
>
> ****** In your example, if LRN is used to determine the next hop, then
TRIP
> carries the LRN information instead of subscriber numbers.  LRN is used
for
> routing within SCN in North America.  The subscriber numbers are for
people
> to dial (plus the dialing plan) to reach those subscribers.

Its LRNs in the sense that an LNP dip should be done before TRIP
databases are accessed, but its subscriber numbers in the sense that a
gateway is allowed (although its not recommended) to insert actual
subscriber numbers, or prefixes of any length really, into TRIP. The
format and structure of LRNs as you describe is the same, no?

-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sun May 14 13:45:35 2000
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To: Stephen Thomas <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>
Cc: Gerry Reilly <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>,
        IPTEL IETF Mailing List <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>,
        Matt Squire <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
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Thanks for the clarification, Stephen.

Based on this, I see their roles as complementary. An OSP server needs
some way to build up the routing table it uses to answer OSP queries.
TRIP fits this need perfectly. In fact, OSP is effectively what is
called "the front end" in the TRIP framework document; its the way by
which TRIP databases are accessed. OSP is a query protocol, and TRIP is
more like a routing protocol.

-Jonathan R.

Stephen Thomas wrote:
>
> Matt has some of the essentials exactly right, but OSP
> can (optionally) provide call routing information as
> well as authorization. A typical application would
> work something like this:
>
>   Server X in domain 1 needs to locate a peer (e.g.
>     a terminating gateway to complete a call to the
>     PSTN).
>
>   Server X uses OSP (as a client) to query a third
>     party for the call routing and authorization
>     information.
>
>   Server X recieves the IP address of Server Y and
>     an authorization token that will grant it access
>     to the peer (sort of like Kerberos).
>
>   Server X sets up a the call to server Y (e.g. SIP
>     INVITE), including the authorization token
>     (e.g. as per draft-thomas-mime-osp-token-00.txt).
>
>   After the call is released, servers X and Y use OSP
>     to report usage information.
>
> To Matt's specific questions:
>
>   OSP Servers can route based on E.164 numbers as well as other
>     identifiers (e.g. email addresses).
>
>   Routing policies and route selection are up to the OSP
>     Server.
>
> At a high enough level, there is overlap between TRIP and
> OSP. OSP does things other than call routing as well, but
> where the overlap exists, I would characterize the
> difference as primarily one of philosophy. TRIP is
> a distributed protocol like IP routing protocols (BGP,
> and also RIP, OSPF, ...). OSP is a hierarchical protocol
> like directory service protocols (DNS, LDAP, ...)
>
> Stephen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Squire" <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
> To: "Gerry Reilly" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>;
> <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
> Sent: 23 November 1999 10:32 AM
> Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
>
> |
> | My understanding of OSP was that it was basically an authorization and
> | accounting protocol - server X in domain 1 can request access to server
Y
> | in domain 2, transmit usage records, etc.  I know its a bit more
> | complicated than this, but this is my one sentence summary.  OSP is,
> | generally, much more comparable to the work going on in AAA than here.
I
> | didn't think it was designed to route signalling messages.
> |
> | So I'm not aware of the route selection capabilities of OSP, in
particular
> | whether it makes routing decisions based upon E164 numbers, what kind
of
> | routing policies and route selection it supports, etc.  To the extent
that
> | OSP does these things, there may indeed be overlap.  Just don't know
> enough
> | about OSP to answer definitively.
> |
> |
> | At 03:11 PM 11/22/99 +0000, Gerry Reilly wrote:
> | >Hi
> | >
> | >Please forgive this newbee question.
> | >
> | >I've been reading through the TBGP, SCSP & TRIP drafts with great
> | >interest:-) As a relative newcomer to the VoIP area, I'm not entirely
> | >clear as to where the Open Settlements Protocol fits into the model,
if
> at
> | >all.
> | >
> | >OSP seems to claim to be designed for inter-domain route selection as
> well
> | >as facilitating billing.
> | >Would this protocol supplement TRIP, or am I missing the point?
> | >
> | >Kind Regards
> | >
> | >Gerry Reilly
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >---------
> | >This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> | >
> |
> | Matt Squire
> | Nortel Networks
> | innovations.lab
> | msquire@nortelnetworks.com
> | (919)992-9048
> |
> | ---------
> | This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> |
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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        "'Stephen Thomas'" <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>
Cc: "'Jonathan Rosenberg'" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>,
        "'Gerry Reilly'" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>,
        "'IPTEL IETF Mailing List'" <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>,
        "'Matt Squire'" <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
Message-ID: <CA2568D9.0041FE4F.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com>
Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:32 +0530
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Subject: [IPTEL] RE: question on OSP
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Page 50 shows the "ETSI Protocol Stack". There is no such thing. These (IP,
TCP, SSL/TLS, HTTP) ) are all IETF protocols and the IETF has the
intellectual property rights and change control. I believe the same applies
to W3C web protocols, XML, etc.

Henry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of Phil
> Mutooni
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 4:42 PM
> To: 'Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr'; 'Stephen Thomas'
> Cc: 'Jonathan Rosenberg'; 'Gerry Reilly'; 'IPTEL IETF Mailing List';
> 'Matt Squire'
> Subject: RE: question on OSP
>
>
> Attached is a paper that I wrote early this year that compares
> the pros and
> cons of
> the OSP vs the ITU-T H.225 Annex G. It appeared in the June issue
> of Billing
> World.
>
> Philip Mutooni
> iBasis, Inc.
> w: http://www.ibasis.net
> t: 781.505.7523
> f: 781.505.7300
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of
> Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 6:12 AM
> To: Stephen Thomas
> Cc: Jonathan Rosenberg; Gerry Reilly; IPTEL IETF Mailing List; Matt
> Squire
> Subject: Re: question on OSP
>
>
>
>
> The convergence between OSP v2 and H.225 v3 Annex G doesn't
> appear obvious,
> there seems some major differences between the two approaches. Below is a
> rough comparison I sketched.
>
> System Model
> ---------------------
> - Different administrative domain organisations are supported in the
H.225
> Annex G, such as: Hierarchical, Distributed or Full mesh,
> ClearingHouse,...organisation. H.225 Annex G doesn't mandate a specific
> organisation among, or within, administrative
> domains. An architecture with Border Elements (BEs) for communication
> between administrative domains is defined. The protocol is fundamentally
> peer to peer.
>
> - OSP seems to be LIMITED to the centralised ClearingHouse administrative
> domain organisation. The architecture is fundamentally
> client-server. There
> appear NO WAY FOR direct relationships  between administrative domains
> (hiearchical, distributed or full
> meshed...).
>
> Message definition, format and encoding
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Message fields and headers are quite different in both cases. The
messages
> are encoded using ASN.1 for the H.225 Annex G, while OSP exchanges
textual
> information using the XML for message structuring.
>
> The set of message types are also different in both cases. Today
> the current
> scope of OSP is inter-Domain pricing, authorization and usage
> exchange, and
> not inter-domain call routing.
>
>
> P.S. the  H.225 Annex G specifications can be found at the following URLs
>  ftp://standard.pictel.com/avc-site/9910_Red/   the name of the
> specification is TD-027.
>
>
> Philippe Terrien
> Alcatel SRD
> 10 rue Latecoere BP 57
> 78141 Velizy Cedex  France
>
>
>
>
>
> "Stephen Thomas" <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com> on 29/11/99 20:17:44
>
>
>
>  To:      Philippe TERRIEN/FR/ALCATEL@ALCATEL, "Jonathan
>           Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
>
>  cc:      "Gerry Reilly" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>,
>           "IPTEL IETF Mailing List"
>           <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>, "Matt Squire"
>           <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
>
>
>
>  Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
>
>
>
>
>
> Although there is some overlap between Annex G and OSP, there are
> some important philosophical differences. Annex G is, by it's
> very definition, an extension of the H.323 protocol suite. Like
> the rest of H.323, Annex G is fundamentally a peer-to-peer
> protocol. OSP, on the other hand, is independent of call signaling
> protocols. It is also architected as a client-server protocol.
> In some ways, OSP is quite close to SIP. It is text encoded
> (actually XML) and relies on standard Internet protocols (HTTP
> and TLS) for transport. A more detailed analysis would also show
> some functionality differences, but they are relatively modest.
>
> As for status, OSP was approved as an ETSI Technical Specification
> in December 1998. ETSI standards are available to the public at no
> charge, though ETSI does require you to register before downloading
> a final copy. (Thus I cannot provide a simple URL.) The ETSI
> web site is www.etsi.org.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr>
> To: "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
> Cc: "Stephen Thomas" <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>; "Gerry Reilly"
> <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>; "IPTEL IETF Mailing List"
> <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>; "Matt Squire"
> <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
> Sent: 25 November 1999 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
> |
> |
> | I have an additional question.
> |
> | How OSP is positionned, compared with the ITU-T H.225 Annex G standard
> which provides an architecture, protocol and operations to solve
> inter-domain routing ? My feeling is that they are competitors.
> | What is the rationale, scope, and current status of OSP ?
> |
> | Attached below the H.225 annex G for those who are not aware o this
> standard
> | (See attached file: TD-27.zip)
> |
> |
> ||
> | Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com> on 23/11/99 22:35:29
> |
> ||  To:      Stephen Thomas <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>
> |
> |  cc:      Gerry Reilly <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>, IPTEL
> |           IETF Mailing List
> |           <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>, Matt Squire
> |           <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>(bcc: Philippe
> |           TERRIEN/FR/ALCATEL)
> |
> |
> |
> |  Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
> ||
> |
> | Thanks for the clarification, Stephen.
> |
> | Based on this, I see their roles as complementary. An OSP server needs
> | some way to build up the routing table it uses to answer OSP queries.
> | TRIP fits this need perfectly. In fact, OSP is effectively what is
> | called "the front end" in the TRIP framework document; its the way by
> | which TRIP databases are accessed. OSP is a query protocol, and TRIP is
> | more like a routing protocol.
> |
> | -Jonathan R.
> |
> | Stephen Thomas wrote:
> | >
> | > Matt has some of the essentials exactly right, but OSP
> | > can (optionally) provide call routing information as
> | > well as authorization. A typical application would
> | > work something like this:
> | >
> | >   Server X in domain 1 needs to locate a peer (e.g.
> | >     a terminating gateway to complete a call to the
> | >     PSTN).
> | >
> | >   Server X uses OSP (as a client) to query a third
> | >     party for the call routing and authorization
> | >     information.
> | >
> | >   Server X recieves the IP address of Server Y and
> | >     an authorization token that will grant it access
> | >     to the peer (sort of like Kerberos).
> | >
> | >   Server X sets up a the call to server Y (e.g. SIP
> | >     INVITE), including the authorization token
> | >     (e.g. as per draft-thomas-mime-osp-token-00.txt).
> | >
> | >   After the call is released, servers X and Y use OSP
> | >     to report usage information.
> | >
> | > To Matt's specific questions:
> | >
> | >   OSP Servers can route based on E.164 numbers as well as other
> | >     identifiers (e.g. email addresses).
> | >
> | >   Routing policies and route selection are up to the OSP
> | >     Server.
> | >
> | > At a high enough level, there is overlap between TRIP and
> | > OSP. OSP does things other than call routing as well, but
> | > where the overlap exists, I would characterize the
> | > difference as primarily one of philosophy. TRIP is
> | > a distributed protocol like IP routing protocols (BGP,
> | > and also RIP, OSPF, ...). OSP is a hierarchical protocol
> | > like directory service protocols (DNS, LDAP, ...)
> | >
> | > Stephen
> | >
> | > ----- Original Message -----
> | > From: "Matt Squire" <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
> | > To: "Gerry Reilly" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>;
> | > <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
> | > Sent: 23 November 1999 10:32 AM
> | > Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
> | >
> | > |
> | > | My understanding of OSP was that it was basically an
> authorization and
> | > | accounting protocol - server X in domain 1 can request access to
> server Y
> | > | in domain 2, transmit usage records, etc.  I know its a bit more
> | > | complicated than this, but this is my one sentence summary.  OSP
is,
> | > | generally, much more comparable to the work going on in AAA
> than here.
> I
> | > | didn't think it was designed to route signalling messages.
> | > |
> | > | So I'm not aware of the route selection capabilities of OSP, in
> particular
> | > | whether it makes routing decisions based upon E164 numbers,
> what kind
> of
> | > | routing policies and route selection it supports, etc.  To
> the extent
> that
> | > | OSP does these things, there may indeed be overlap.  Just don't
know
> | > enough
> | > | about OSP to answer definitively.
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | At 03:11 PM 11/22/99 +0000, Gerry Reilly wrote:
> | > | >Hi
> | > | >
> | > | >Please forgive this newbee question.
> | > | >
> | > | >I've been reading through the TBGP, SCSP & TRIP drafts with great
> | > | >interest:-) As a relative newcomer to the VoIP area, I'm
> not entirely
> | > | >clear as to where the Open Settlements Protocol fits into
> the model,
> if
> | > at
> | > | >all.
> | > | >
> | > | >OSP seems to claim to be designed for inter-domain route
> selection as
> | > well
> | > | >as facilitating billing.
> | > | >Would this protocol supplement TRIP, or am I missing the point?
> | > | >
> | > | >Kind Regards
> | > | >
> | > | >Gerry Reilly
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | >---------
> | > | >This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> | > | >
> | > |
> | > | Matt Squire
> | > | Nortel Networks
> | > | innovations.lab
> | > | msquire@nortelnetworks.com
> | > | (919)992-9048
> | > |
> | > | ---------
> | > | This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> | > |
> | >
> | > ---------
> | > This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> |
> | --
> | Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
> | Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
> | dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
> | jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> | http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> | http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> |
> | ---------
> | This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> |---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
>
>
>
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
>
>


---------
This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.





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To: "'Henry Sinnreich'" <henry.sinnreich@wcom.com>,
        Phil Mutooni <PMutooni@ibasis.net>, Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr,
        "'Stephen Thomas'" <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>
Cc: "'Jonathan Rosenberg'" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>,
        "'Gerry Reilly'" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>,
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What you have pointed out is correct - there is a factual error in the
titling of that text box - this was an addition by the technical editors at
the magazine.

-----Original Message-----
From: Henry Sinnreich [mailto:henry.sinnreich@wcom.com]
Sent: Wednesday, December 01, 1999 12:32 PM
To: Phil Mutooni; Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr; 'Stephen Thomas'
Cc: 'Jonathan Rosenberg'; 'Gerry Reilly'; 'IPTEL IETF Mailing List';
'Matt Squire'
Subject: RE: question on OSP


Page 50 shows the "ETSI Protocol Stack". There is no such thing. These (IP,
TCP, SSL/TLS, HTTP) ) are all IETF protocols and the IETF has the
intellectual property rights and change control. I believe the same applies
to W3C web protocols, XML, etc.

Henry

> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of Phil
> Mutooni
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 4:42 PM
> To: 'Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr'; 'Stephen Thomas'
> Cc: 'Jonathan Rosenberg'; 'Gerry Reilly'; 'IPTEL IETF Mailing List';
> 'Matt Squire'
> Subject: RE: question on OSP
>
>
> Attached is a paper that I wrote early this year that compares
> the pros and
> cons of
> the OSP vs the ITU-T H.225 Annex G. It appeared in the June issue
> of Billing
> World.
>
> Philip Mutooni
> iBasis, Inc.
> w: http://www.ibasis.net
> t: 781.505.7523
> f: 781.505.7300
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:owner-iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of
> Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr
> Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 1999 6:12 AM
> To: Stephen Thomas
> Cc: Jonathan Rosenberg; Gerry Reilly; IPTEL IETF Mailing List; Matt
> Squire
> Subject: Re: question on OSP
>
>
>
>
> The convergence between OSP v2 and H.225 v3 Annex G doesn't
> appear obvious,
> there seems some major differences between the two approaches. Below is a
> rough comparison I sketched.
>
> System Model
> ---------------------
> - Different administrative domain organisations are supported in the
H.225
> Annex G, such as: Hierarchical, Distributed or Full mesh,
> ClearingHouse,...organisation. H.225 Annex G doesn't mandate a specific
> organisation among, or within, administrative
> domains. An architecture with Border Elements (BEs) for communication
> between administrative domains is defined. The protocol is fundamentally
> peer to peer.
>
> - OSP seems to be LIMITED to the centralised ClearingHouse administrative
> domain organisation. The architecture is fundamentally
> client-server. There
> appear NO WAY FOR direct relationships  between administrative domains
> (hiearchical, distributed or full
> meshed...).
>
> Message definition, format and encoding
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Message fields and headers are quite different in both cases. The
messages
> are encoded using ASN.1 for the H.225 Annex G, while OSP exchanges
textual
> information using the XML for message structuring.
>
> The set of message types are also different in both cases. Today
> the current
> scope of OSP is inter-Domain pricing, authorization and usage
> exchange, and
> not inter-domain call routing.
>
>
> P.S. the  H.225 Annex G specifications can be found at the following URLs
>  ftp://standard.pictel.com/avc-site/9910_Red/   the name of the
> specification is TD-027.
>
>
> Philippe Terrien
> Alcatel SRD
> 10 rue Latecoere BP 57
> 78141 Velizy Cedex  France
>
>
>
>
>
> "Stephen Thomas" <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com> on 29/11/99 20:17:44
>
>
>
>  To:      Philippe TERRIEN/FR/ALCATEL@ALCATEL, "Jonathan
>           Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
>
>  cc:      "Gerry Reilly" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>,
>           "IPTEL IETF Mailing List"
>           <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>, "Matt Squire"
>           <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
>
>
>
>  Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
>
>
>
>
>
> Although there is some overlap between Annex G and OSP, there are
> some important philosophical differences. Annex G is, by it's
> very definition, an extension of the H.323 protocol suite. Like
> the rest of H.323, Annex G is fundamentally a peer-to-peer
> protocol. OSP, on the other hand, is independent of call signaling
> protocols. It is also architected as a client-server protocol.
> In some ways, OSP is quite close to SIP. It is text encoded
> (actually XML) and relies on standard Internet protocols (HTTP
> and TLS) for transport. A more detailed analysis would also show
> some functionality differences, but they are relatively modest.
>
> As for status, OSP was approved as an ETSI Technical Specification
> in December 1998. ETSI standards are available to the public at no
> charge, though ETSI does require you to register before downloading
> a final copy. (Thus I cannot provide a simple URL.) The ETSI
> web site is www.etsi.org.
>
> Stephen
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <Philippe.Terrien@alcatel.fr>
> To: "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
> Cc: "Stephen Thomas" <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>; "Gerry Reilly"
> <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>; "IPTEL IETF Mailing List"
> <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>; "Matt Squire"
> <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
> Sent: 25 November 1999 6:17 AM
> Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
> |
> |
> | I have an additional question.
> |
> | How OSP is positionned, compared with the ITU-T H.225 Annex G standard
> which provides an architecture, protocol and operations to solve
> inter-domain routing ? My feeling is that they are competitors.
> | What is the rationale, scope, and current status of OSP ?
> |
> | Attached below the H.225 annex G for those who are not aware o this
> standard
> | (See attached file: TD-27.zip)
> |
> |
> ||
> | Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com> on 23/11/99 22:35:29
> |
> ||  To:      Stephen Thomas <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>
> |
> |  cc:      Gerry Reilly <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>, IPTEL
> |           IETF Mailing List
> |           <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>, Matt Squire
> |           <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>(bcc: Philippe
> |           TERRIEN/FR/ALCATEL)
> |
> |
> |
> |  Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
> ||
> |
> | Thanks for the clarification, Stephen.
> |
> | Based on this, I see their roles as complementary. An OSP server needs
> | some way to build up the routing table it uses to answer OSP queries.
> | TRIP fits this need perfectly. In fact, OSP is effectively what is
> | called "the front end" in the TRIP framework document; its the way by
> | which TRIP databases are accessed. OSP is a query protocol, and TRIP is
> | more like a routing protocol.
> |
> | -Jonathan R.
> |
> | Stephen Thomas wrote:
> | >
> | > Matt has some of the essentials exactly right, but OSP
> | > can (optionally) provide call routing information as
> | > well as authorization. A typical application would
> | > work something like this:
> | >
> | >   Server X in domain 1 needs to locate a peer (e.g.
> | >     a terminating gateway to complete a call to the
> | >     PSTN).
> | >
> | >   Server X uses OSP (as a client) to query a third
> | >     party for the call routing and authorization
> | >     information.
> | >
> | >   Server X recieves the IP address of Server Y and
> | >     an authorization token that will grant it access
> | >     to the peer (sort of like Kerberos).
> | >
> | >   Server X sets up a the call to server Y (e.g. SIP
> | >     INVITE), including the authorization token
> | >     (e.g. as per draft-thomas-mime-osp-token-00.txt).
> | >
> | >   After the call is released, servers X and Y use OSP
> | >     to report usage information.
> | >
> | > To Matt's specific questions:
> | >
> | >   OSP Servers can route based on E.164 numbers as well as other
> | >     identifiers (e.g. email addresses).
> | >
> | >   Routing policies and route selection are up to the OSP
> | >     Server.
> | >
> | > At a high enough level, there is overlap between TRIP and
> | > OSP. OSP does things other than call routing as well, but
> | > where the overlap exists, I would characterize the
> | > difference as primarily one of philosophy. TRIP is
> | > a distributed protocol like IP routing protocols (BGP,
> | > and also RIP, OSPF, ...). OSP is a hierarchical protocol
> | > like directory service protocols (DNS, LDAP, ...)
> | >
> | > Stephen
> | >
> | > ----- Original Message -----
> | > From: "Matt Squire" <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
> | > To: "Gerry Reilly" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>;
> | > <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
> | > Sent: 23 November 1999 10:32 AM
> | > Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
> | >
> | > |
> | > | My understanding of OSP was that it was basically an
> authorization and
> | > | accounting protocol - server X in domain 1 can request access to
> server Y
> | > | in domain 2, transmit usage records, etc.  I know its a bit more
> | > | complicated than this, but this is my one sentence summary.  OSP
is,
> | > | generally, much more comparable to the work going on in AAA
> than here.
> I
> | > | didn't think it was designed to route signalling messages.
> | > |
> | > | So I'm not aware of the route selection capabilities of OSP, in
> particular
> | > | whether it makes routing decisions based upon E164 numbers,
> what kind
> of
> | > | routing policies and route selection it supports, etc.  To
> the extent
> that
> | > | OSP does these things, there may indeed be overlap.  Just don't
know
> | > enough
> | > | about OSP to answer definitively.
> | > |
> | > |
> | > | At 03:11 PM 11/22/99 +0000, Gerry Reilly wrote:
> | > | >Hi
> | > | >
> | > | >Please forgive this newbee question.
> | > | >
> | > | >I've been reading through the TBGP, SCSP & TRIP drafts with great
> | > | >interest:-) As a relative newcomer to the VoIP area, I'm
> not entirely
> | > | >clear as to where the Open Settlements Protocol fits into
> the model,
> if
> | > at
> | > | >all.
> | > | >
> | > | >OSP seems to claim to be designed for inter-domain route
> selection as
> | > well
> | > | >as facilitating billing.
> | > | >Would this protocol supplement TRIP, or am I missing the point?
> | > | >
> | > | >Kind Regards
> | > | >
> | > | >Gerry Reilly
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | >
> | > | >---------
> | > | >This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> | > | >
> | > |
> | > | Matt Squire
> | > | Nortel Networks
> | > | innovations.lab
> | > | msquire@nortelnetworks.com
> | > | (919)992-9048
> | > |
> | > | ---------
> | > | This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> | > |
> | >
> | > ---------
> | > This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> |
> | --
> | Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
> | Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
> | dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
> | jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> | http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> | http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> |
> | ---------
> | This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> |---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
>
>
>
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
>
>

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Regarding the Call Processing Language (CPL) draft, are there default
timeout values for the elements that accept timeout as an argument if
the user does not specify a value?

--
Kenny Hom
Senior Software Engineer
Vovida Networks, 2150 Trade Zone Blvd. 105, San Jose, CA 95131
[W] (408) 941-1790 / [F] (408) 941-1791

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None defined right now as I recall. I'm not sure there needs to be a
standard default. It might be OK for the proxy to set the default
administratively.

-Jonathan R.

Kenny Hom wrote:
>
> Regarding the Call Processing Language (CPL) draft, are there default
> timeout values for the elements that accept timeout as an argument if
> the user does not specify a value?
>
> --
> Kenny Hom
> Senior Software Engineer
> Vovida Networks, 2150 Trade Zone Blvd. 105, San Jose, CA 95131
> [W] (408) 941-1790 / [F] (408) 941-1791
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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"Hussein F. Salama" wrote:
>
> > In any case, determination of where the NPDB query is done is something
> > I don't think is within the scope of iptel to determine. All we need to
> > figure out is what kind of numbers are distributed in TRIP. Near as I
> > can tell, since LRNs still refer to the prefix of numbers served by a
> > switch, doing what we were doing all along works just fine.
> >
>
> Yes what we're doing is OK, because the LRN is part of an office's
> NPA-NXX prefix. But we may have to add a new field to the
> ReachableRoutes attribute to mark a prefix as portable. A prefix is
> marked as portable if at lease one number has been ported out of this
> prefix.

Hmm, why is that? Are you basically saying that if a prefix is marked as
portable, an LS must do an LNP query before routing to numbers in that
prefix? Then, if marked as not portable, there is no need for queries?
If so, its an interesting idea. It solves the problem of N-1, which,
from what I understand, was done in part because only carriers near the
destination would need to install triggers to perform queries on
numbers. However, if information on what prefixes are ported is
distributed in TRIP, this information is effectively dynamically
distributed. This means its equally easy for the query to be done at the
first LS as the last.

-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
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Folks,

As a reminder, a working group last call for the CPL framework document:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-iptel-cpl-framework-01.txt

was issued at the DC IETF. This last call will end Monday, December 6.
Please send comments to the list or to the authors before this date. The
framework document will be submitted for informational RFC.


Also, please note that Cisco has declared intellectual property rights
(IPR) on TRIP
(http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-iptel-trip-00.txt).
Details on this claim can be found at
http://www.ietf.org/ietf/IPR/CISCO-TRIP.

-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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------------------------------------------------------------------------
                 Call for Papers
             1st IP Telephony workshop
                   IPTel'2000
       12- 13 April 2000 in Berlin, Germany
       http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/iptel2000/
            iptel2000@fokus.gmd.de

Ext. abstracts submission (~2K words):         31.Jan.2000
Authors notification of acceptance:            29.Feb.2000
Camera-ready abstracts and slides:             31.Mar.2000

         Invited talks include H. Schulzrinne

The objective of the First IP Telephony Workshop is to bring together
researchers, developers, vendors and service providers working in the
IP telephony area to participate actively in a discussion on recent
deployment experiences,  innovative results and future directions.
Topics include but are not limited to: Basic Technologies (SIP, ...),
IP-Telephony Services, Business Deployment, Implementation reports.

         Demonstrations are welcome
------------------------------------------------------------------------
sorry if duplicated

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Agenda for the iptel Working Group
IETF 47 1930-2200, Monday March 27
==================================

1. Agenda Bashing        [Rosenberg]     5 mins
2. Status of CPL & TRIP
   Frameworks            [Rosenberg]     5 mins
3. Framework and Requirements
   for the Internet Intelligent
   Networks  (IIN)              [Slutsman]      15 mins
4. TRIP                  [Rosenberg]     45 mins
5. TRIP for Gateway Route
   Exporting             [Rosenberg]     15 mins

6. CPL                   [Rosenberg]     45 mins

Reading:

draft-lslutsman-sip-iin-framework-00.txt
draft-rs-trip-gw-00.txt
draft-ietf-iptel-cpl-01.txt
draft-ietf-iptel-trip-01.txt

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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Organization: Vovida Networks, Inc.
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The <address-switch> and <string-switch> seem limited with their types
of matching.  Can regular expressions be used in the match string? 

Should "begins with" & "ends with" be added (useful for user, display, &
possibly host)?  

Also, what about adding the negatives (i.e. is not, not subdomain-of, &
does not contain)?

For address-switch matching on the port subfield, should we add greater
and less?

 

Thanks in-advance for any help,
Kenny
Senior Engineer
Vovida Networks
khom@vovida.com



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Cc: <diffserv@ietf.org>, <qosr@newbridge.com>, <int-serv@isi.edu>,
        <te-wg@uu.net>, <xtp-relay@cs.concordia.ca>, <sigmedia@bellcore.com>,
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        <www-security@ns2.Rutgers.EDU>, <mpls@uu.net>, <lsma@gmu.edu>
Subject:  ATMTU 2000 in Slovakia
Date: Tue, 9 May 2000 03:00:17 +0200
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Accept my apologies if you receive multiple copies of this call. Please =
forward to your colleagues.
                =
___________________________________________________________
                      The deadline for abstract submission is quickly =
approaching (May)
               =
___________________________________________________________
=20
             THE SECOND INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS SYMPOSIUM

                                                     ATMTU 2000
                                            13 - 15 September 2000
                                                   Kosice, Slovakia
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
Dear colleagues,

Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a special issue of The ATMTU 2000 =
Symposium.=20

Detailed information about the Symposium and registration form 4you will =
 also fing
on the Symposium web site: http://www.elfa.sk.
The Symposium will be devoted to exchange of experiences in  =
implementation and
operation of the broad-band networks based on the ATM technology, =
presentation of=20
verified applications and presentation of the offered services. It will =
promote the ATM=20
technology transfer between the producers and customers - users of the =
ATM technology.
In framework of the Symposium we are preparing an exhibition of new =
products and=20
components of the ATM technology, applications, measurement equipment, =
etc.
The exhibition will be held in the same location as the Symposium. =
Companies and
institutions will have an opportunity to exhibit their products and =
advertise them among
the specialists and potential customers. Also, a special session will be =
devoted to=20
introducing their products and applications (short lectures in duration =
of approx. 10-20 min.).=20
In the plenary session we expect a presentation of the ambassadors of =
the ATM Forum
and also presentation of important business, academical and public =
representative.

Yours sincerely,

Organising Committee ATMTU 2000
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

Scope of the Symposium
The Symposium will be devoted to the:

  a.. Presentation and sharing of experiences in the implementation and =
operation                                                                =
                                               of the broad-band =
networks based on ATM technologies=20
  b.. Presentation of verified ATM based applications=20
  c.. Presentation of the offered services=20
  d.. Perspectives of the ATM based technologies=20
Aims of the Symposium
  a.. To support dissemination of experiences pursuant to ATM technology =
utilisation=20
  b.. To get an extensive base of future customers and users=20
  c.. To support various forms of links among users and service =
providers.=20
The Symposium will be open for the exhibition of new ATM products and =
services.

Symposium Structure and Suggested Topics for Papers
Symposium will consist of plenary sessions and technical sessions.

Plenary Session I.(1st day of the Symposium)

Presentations of topics of general interest, e.g. building the =
"information highways"                                                   =
                                                          in the =
international context, strategic aims of governmental institutions etc.  =
                                                                         =
                                             =20

Plenary Session II. (2nd day of the Symposium)

Presentations of the world leading

  a.. vendors=20
  b.. operators=20
  c.. investors=20
  d.. integrators and=20
  e.. users of the ATM technology.=20
Presentations of the implemented pilot projects and services in the ATM =
based networks.

Technical Sessions:

Technical sessions will be held on the second day of the Symposium, in =
parallel                                                                 =
                                               with the Plenary Session =
II. It is proposed for general audience and specialists from             =
                                                                         =
              research, industry and academic institutions, intending to =
present their experiences                                                =
                                                            and =
recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The =
session will                                                             =
                                                cover the following =
topics:=20

  a.. Comparison of ATM technologies from the view of their =
implementation, protection                                               =
                                                          of investments =
and further development=20
  b.. Standardisation of the ATM technology=20
  c.. Multimedia applications (videoconferencing etc.)=20
  d.. Broadband services and quality of services=20
  e.. Broadband networks management=20
  f.. Security in the broadband networks=20
  g.. Future of the ATM technology=20
Exhibition
The Symposium will promote ATM technology transfer between producers and =
users.                                                                   =
                             Producers and institutions will have the =
opportunity to present new products, components,                         =
                                                                    =
applications, measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on =
same premises                                                            =
                                            as the Symposium.

Symposium Languages
Slovak, Czech and English are the official languages of the symposium.=20

Symposium Proceedings
The proceedings will be published in time for the Symposium. Each =
registered participant                                                   =
                                                     will receive the =
proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD).

Contributions
Authors intending to submit a paper are welcome to mail in 1 page:

  a.. (approx. 300 words) of abstract on A4 standard sheet=20
  b.. borders 2,5 cm=20
  c.. Times New Roman or similar font, 12 p.,=20
  d.. in one of the symposium languages.=20
The abstract should be headed as follows:

  a.. Title of the paper=20
  b.. Author's name(s)=20
  c.. Affiliation=20
  d.. Mailing address.=20
The deadline is 10 of May 2000.=20

If you need extension for few days,  please let us know in advance -     =
                                                                         =
                       we will try to accomodate such requests.

The Organising Committee will also accept abstracts processed by the "MS =
Word"                                                                    =
                                        text editor and mailed to the =
Organising Committee by Internet. Authors of papers,                     =
                                                                         =
           selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with =
instructions for full papers.                                            =
                                                                 .

Deadlines
  1.. Acceptance of registration forms and abstracts and/or proposals to =
exhibition

  10 May 2000


  2.. Notification of acceptance, rules for full paper preparation and =
Second Call

  30 May 2000

  3.. Receipt of full paper and advanced registration

  15 August 2000

  4.. Last information and Final Program

  25 August 2000=20

 All deadlines are as per postmark.
Venue
Presentation hall and associated lecture halls at the Technical =
University,
Letna 9, Kosice, Slovak Republic.

Optional Agenda
On the third day of the Symposium one of the following optional programs =
will be at your disposal:

  a.. either technical program - visit to see the advanced ATM solutions =

  b.. or a trip, according to the choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine =
region) with the social program.=20
Registration Fee
It is supposed that the registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. =
The PhD. students presenting                                             =
                                           their contributions will have =
30 % discount from the registration fee.

The details will be announced in the Second Announcement.

Information about Kosice
Kosice, the metropolis of Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich =
history. It has always been                                              =
                                          a town of both national and =
international significance. Kosice belongs to the most beautiful and =
lovely                                                                   =
                 cities in Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently =
renewed historical centre. Towering over the centre                      =
                                                                  is the =
gothic Cathedral of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508.

In last decades Kosice quickly expanded and at the present there are =
nearly 250 thousands of inhabitants.                                     =
                                           It is the second largest city =
in the Slovak Republic (after the capital - Bratislava) and is the =
centre of the                                                            =
               industrial activities, business and commerce, =
communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping, cultural                =
                                                                    and =
leisure activities for the whole Eastern Slovakia.=20

The first in-town university was established in 1657. At present there =
are five universities.                                                   =
                                          Technical University of =
Kosice, established in 1952, with over 11 500 students, consists of =
eight faculties.                                                         =
                    The Faculty of Electrical Engineering and =
Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution of          =
                                                                      =
higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information =
technologies. The education programs                                     =
                                            are firmly linked with =
research and scientific activities.

Address and Contact
ATMTU 2000 Symposium Secretariat
Martina Atanasova
elfa, s.r.o.
Letna 9
042 00 Kosice, Slovak Republic
Tel.:+421-95-62 538 39, 62 53202
Fax: +421-95-62 532 00
E-mail: elfa@elfa.sk, www.elfa.sk


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<DIV style=3D"FONT: 10pt arial"></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2><SPAN =
class=3D360575917-31032000><FONT=20
color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial>Accept my apologies if you receive multiple =
copies of=20
this call.</FONT></SPAN><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><SPAN=20
class=3D360575917-31032000><SPAN class=3D370211018-31032000><SPAN=20
class=3D800540809-24042000> </SPAN>Please forward to your=20
colleagues.</SPAN></SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D360575917-31032000><SPAN class=3D370211018-31032000><SPAN=20
class=3D800540809-24042000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
___________________________________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>=
</SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D360575917-31032000><SPAN class=3D370211018-31032000><SPAN=20
class=3D800540809-24042000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;=20
The deadline for abstract&nbsp;submission is quickly approaching=20
(May)</SPAN></SPAN></SPAN></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial><FONT =
color=3D#0000ff=20
face=3DArial size=3D2><SPAN class=3D360575917-31032000><SPAN=20
class=3D370211018-31032000><SPAN=20
class=3D800540809-24042000>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
___________________________________________________________</SPAN></SPAN>=
</SPAN></FONT></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><FONT=20
size=3D2></FONT></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial><FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;=20
THE SECOND&nbsp;INTERNATIONAL ATM TECHNOLOGY USERS=20
SYMPOSIUM<BR></DIV></FONT></FONT>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3DArial size=3D2>ATMTU =
2000</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
13 - 15 September 2000</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Kosice,=20
Slovakia</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT color=3D#0000ff><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2><SPAN=20
class=3D370211018-31032000>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D</SPAN></FONT></FONT></DIV>
<P align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>Dear colleagues,</FONT></P>
<P align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>Enclosed is a Call for Papers for a =
special issue=20
of The&nbsp;ATMTU 2000 Symposium. </FONT></P>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>Detailed information about the =
Symposium and=20
registration form 4you will&nbsp; also fing</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>on the Symposium web site: <A=20
href=3D"http://www.elfa.sk">http://www.elfa.sk</A>.<BR>The Symposium =
will be=20
devoted to exchange of experiences in&nbsp; implementation =
and</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>operation of the&nbsp;broad-band =
networks based=20
on the ATM technology, presentation of </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>verified applications and =
presentation of the=20
offered services. It will promote the ATM </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>technology transfer between the =
producers and=20
customers - users of the ATM technology.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>In framework of the Symposium we are =
preparing=20
an exhibition of new products and </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>components of the ATM technology, =
applications,=20
measurement equipment, etc.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>The exhibition will be held in the =
same location=20
as the Symposium. Companies and<BR>institutions will have an opportunity =
to=20
exhibit their products and advertise them among</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>the specialists and potential =
customers. Also, a=20
special session will be devoted to </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>introducing their products and =
applications=20
(short lectures in duration of approx. 10-20 min.). </FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>In the plenary session we expect a =
presentation=20
of the ambassadors of the ATM Forum</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>and also presentation of important =
business,=20
academical and public representative.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV align=3Djustify><FONT size=3D2>Yours sincerely,<BR><BR>Organising =
Committee=20
ATMTU=20
2000<BR>=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D</FONT></DIV><FONT=20
size=3D2><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><STRONG>
<DIV></FONT><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>Scope of=20
the Symposium</FONT></STRONG></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The Symposium will =
be devoted to=20
the:</FONT></P>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Presentation and =
sharing of=20
  experiences in the implementation and operation</FONT><FONT=20
  face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica"=20
  =
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of=20
  the broad-band networks based on ATM technologies</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Presentation of =
verified ATM=20
  based applications</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Presentation of =
the offered=20
  services</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Perspectives of =
the ATM based=20
  technologies</FONT> </LI></UL>
<H3><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>Aims of the=20
Symposium</FONT></H3>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>To support =
dissemination of=20
  experiences pursuant to ATM technology utilisation</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>To get an =
extensive base of=20
  future customers and users</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>To support =
various forms of=20
  links among users and service providers.</FONT> </LI></UL>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The Symposium will =
be open for=20
the exhibition of new ATM products and services.</FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Symposium =
Structure and=20
Suggested Topics for Papers</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Symposium will =
consist of=20
plenary sessions and technical sessions.</FONT></P>
<P><I><B><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>Plenary=20
Session I.</FONT></B></I><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>(1st day=20
of the Symposium)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Presentations of =
topics of=20
general interest, e.g. building the <B>"information=20
highways"</B>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
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&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;=20
in the international context, strategic aims of governmental =
institutions=20
etc.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
</FONT></P>
<P><I><B><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>Plenary=20
Session II.</FONT></B></I> <FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>(2nd day=20
of the Symposium)</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Presentations of the =
world=20
leading</FONT></P>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>vendors</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>operators</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>investors</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>integrators =
and</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>users of the ATM=20
  technology.</FONT> </LI></UL>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Presentations of the =
implemented=20
pilot projects and services in the ATM based networks.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2><B><I>Technical=20
Sessions:</I></B></FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Technical sessions =
will be held=20
on the second day of the Symposium, in parallel&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; with the <I><A=20
href=3D"http://www.elfa.sk/atm2k/uk/ps-2.htm">Plenary Session =
II.</A></I> It is=20
proposed for general audience and specialists from&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
research, industry and academic institutions, intending to present their =

experiences&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and=20
recommendations from the field of ATM technology utilisation. The =
session will=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; cover the =
following=20
topics:&nbsp;</FONT></P>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Comparison of ATM =

  technologies from the view of their implementation, protection=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
  &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; of investments and further=20
  development</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Standardisation =
of the ATM=20
  technology</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Multimedia =
applications=20
  (videoconferencing etc.)</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Broadband =
services and=20
  quality of services</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Broadband =
networks=20
  management</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Security in the =
broadband=20
  networks</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Future of the ATM =

  technology</FONT> </LI></UL>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, =
Helvetica">Exhibition</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The Symposium will =
promote ATM=20
technology transfer between producers and users.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Producers and=20
institutions will have the opportunity to present new products, =
components,=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; applications,=20
measurement equipment, etc. The exhibition will be held on same=20
premises&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </FONT><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica"=20
size=3D2>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
as the Symposium.</FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Symposium=20
Languages</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Slovak, Czech and =
English are=20
the official languages of the symposium. </FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Symposium=20
Proceedings</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The proceedings will =
be=20
published in time for the Symposium. Each registered=20
participant&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; will receive =
the=20
proceedings in both printed and electronic forms (CD).</FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000=20
face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Contributions</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Authors intending to =
submit a=20
paper are welcome to mail in 1 page:</FONT></P>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>(approx. 300 =
words) of=20
  abstract on A4 standard sheet</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>borders 2,5 =
cm</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Times New Roman =
or similar=20
  font, 12 p.,</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>in one of the =
symposium=20
  languages.</FONT> </LI></UL>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The abstract should =
be headed as=20
follows:</FONT></P>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Title of the =
paper</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Author's =
name(s)</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>Affiliation</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Mailing =
address.</FONT>=20
</LI></UL>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The deadline is =
<STRONG><EM>10=20
of May 2000</EM></STRONG>. </FONT></P>
<P><STRONG><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D3>If you need =
extension=20
for few days,&nbsp; please let us know in advance - &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; we=20
will&nbsp;try to accomodate&nbsp;such =
requests.<BR><BR></FONT></STRONG><FONT=20
face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The Organising Committee will =
also accept=20
abstracts processed by the <B><I>"MS Word"&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; </I></B>text editor and mailed to the Organising =
Committee by=20
Internet. Authors of papers, &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
selected for the presentation, will be mailed a pack with instructions =
for full=20
papers.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
.</FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, =
Helvetica">Deadlines</FONT></H5>
<OL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Acceptance of =
registration=20
  forms and abstracts and/or proposals to exhibition<BR><BR><B>10 May=20
  2000</B><BR><BR></FONT>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Notification of =
acceptance,=20
  rules for full paper preparation and Second Call<BR><BR><B>30 May=20
  2000</B><BR></FONT>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Receipt of full =
paper and=20
  advanced registration<BR><BR><B>15 August 2000</B><BR></FONT>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Last information =
and Final=20
  Program<BR><BR><B>25 August 2000</B></FONT>&nbsp;</LI></OL>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;<FONT color=3D#0000ff face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2><B><I>All=20
deadlines are as per postmark.</I></B></FONT></DIV>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, =
Helvetica">Venue</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2>Presentation&nbsp;hall and=20
associated lecture halls at the Technical University,<BR>Letna 9, =
Kosice, Slovak=20
Republic.</FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Optional=20
Agenda</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>On the third day of =
the=20
Symposium one of the following optional programs will be at your=20
disposal:</FONT></P>
<UL>
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>either technical =
program -=20
  visit to see the advanced ATM solutions</FONT>=20
  <LI><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>or a trip, =
according to the=20
  choice (the High Tatras or Tokaj vine region) with the social program. =

  </FONT></LI></UL>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Registration =

Fee</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>It is supposed that =
the=20
registration fee will be in range of 290 USD. The PhD. students=20
presenting&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; their =
contributions=20
will have 30 % discount from the registration fee.</FONT></P>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>The details will be =
announced in=20
the Second Announcement.</FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Information =
about=20
Kosice</FONT></H5>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2>Kosice, the =
metropolis of=20
Eastern Slovakia, has more than 750 years rich history. It has always=20
been&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp=
;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
a town of both national and international significance. Kosice belongs =
to the=20
most beautiful and lovely&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
cities in=20
Slovakia. There is an attractive, recently renewed historical centre. =
Towering=20
over the centre&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; is the gothic =
Cathedral=20
of St. Elizabeth, completed in 1508.<BR><BR>In last decades Kosice =
quickly=20
expanded and at the present there are nearly 250 thousands of=20
inhabitants.&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; It is the second largest city in the Slovak Republic =
(after=20
the capital - Bratislava) and is the centre of the&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; industrial activities, business =
and=20
commerce, communications, civic admi-nistration, shopping,=20
cultural&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; and leisure activities for the =
whole=20
Eastern Slovakia. <BR><BR>The first in-town university was established =
in 1657.=20
At present there are five universities. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Technical University of Kosice, established in 1952, =
with=20
over 11 500 students, consists of eight faculties. &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; The Faculty of Electrical =
Engineering and=20
Informatics, established in 1969, is the leading institution=20
of&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
higher education in fields of electrical engineering and information=20
technologies. The education programs &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;=20
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; are firmly linked with research =
and=20
scientific activities.</FONT></P>
<H5><FONT color=3D#ff0000 face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica">Address and=20
Contact</FONT></H5>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2><STRONG><U>ATMTU =
2000=20
Symposium Secretariat</U><BR></STRONG>Martina Atanasova</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" size=3D2><STRONG>elfa,=20
s.r.o.</STRONG><BR>Letna 9<BR>042 00 Kosice, Slovak =
Republic</FONT></DIV>
<P><FONT face=3D"Arial, Vedana, Helvetica" =
size=3D2><B>Tel.:</B>+421-95-62 538=20
39,&nbsp;62 53202<BR><B>Fax:</B> +421-95-62 532 00<BR><B>E-mail:</B> <A=20
href=3D"mailto:elfa@elfa.sk">elfa@elfa.sk</A><STRONG>, <A=20
href=3D"http://www.elfa.sk">www.elfa.sk</A></STRONG></FONT></P></FONT></B=
ODY></HTML>

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sun May 14 16:24:35 2000
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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:01 +0530
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Subject: [IPTEL] CPL and SIP-CGI
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Hello,
I have following questions I hope someone could give an answer on:

Could CPL and SIP-CGI be seen as complementary or should they be
viewed as two different approaches for creating e.g. telephony features?

To me it seems that CPL could be used as an off-line service creation
technology and SIP-CGI used for real-time service operation during
traffic which then would mean they could complement each other.
I.e. write the service with CPL as a kind of SIP CGI script that is
called in during traffic.

Regards,
Mikael Larsson


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Jonathan Lennox wrote:
>
> On Fri, February 11 2000, "Jonathan Rosenberg" wrote to "Henning
Schulzrinne, khom@vovida.com, iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com,
lennox@cs.columbia.edu" saying:
>
> > OK; I'll buy this argument. Which tags need timeouts? Isn't it only
> > proxy? I think perhaps a reasonable default is 30 seconds?
>
> Proxy's the only case where lack of response (noanswer) and failure are
> different.

A wholly unscientific check of call forward no answer seems to put the
detault at 15-20 seconds or three-four rings (18-24 seconds). Not that
it much matters, but 20 s seems to be about right.

> I don't think we need to worry about setting default timeouts
> for location lookup or the like.
>
> --
> Jonathan Lennox
> lennox@cs.columbia.edu

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A couple additional comments...

> >
> > Section 5.2.1.1, (IPSec)
> > Is there any reason TRIP _couldn't_ rely on IPSec for security?
Conversely, what about
> > implementations that don't support IPSec? There might be a problem with
> > problem re-hashing changing headers, etc, though I think the IPv6 specs
> > address that. Would TRIP's specification seem incomplete without
security
> > of it's own?
> >

We couldn't come up with any reason why IPSEC couldn't be relied on for
security, except of course if an implentation that didn't support it.
In the upcoming draft, we've removed references to bgp authentication
mechanisms, added some text for signing individual attributes (what we
called 'next-hop security' at the last ietf), but have yet to really
address the use of IPSEC with regards to the keying issues.  That should
come in the next round I hope.


> >
> > Section 6.3.1 (port addresses)
> > In my opinion, I it is not necessary to have a
subnetwork_address_field.
> > However, I do think that next hop ITAD should be included, as
filtering, etc
> > may be based on this.
> >

This is pretty much what we went with in the upcoming version.

- Matt

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I would point out that H.323 RAS messages are not normally
used to register a range of phone numbers for gateways as it
is quite impractical, especially for gateways handling a large
number of phone numbers, and when keep-alive messages are used.

While some implementations uses tricks such as registering
"dialling prefixes" to map to telephone number, it is not the
intent of prefixes which are supposed to be used for special services.

Normally, a gateway registers an alias with its gatekeeper and the binding
between the alias and the range of phone numbers handled by the
gateway is "manually" configured in the gatekeeper, as described
in the draft. I would think that TRIP could automate this process.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com]
> Sent: Thursday, March 09, 2000 11:33 PM
> To: sip@lists.research.bell-labs.com;
> iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com
> Subject: TRIP for gateway registrations
>
>
> Folks,
>
> Every once in a while, the question comes up of why SIP
> REGISTER is not
> the right vehicle for allowing gateways to register phone
> prefixes with
> a proxy. I believe TRIP is far better for this purpose. As it
> turns out,
> a small subset of TRIP is needed to solve this problem, and yet its
> still interoperable with full blown TRIP. Hussein Salama and I have
> written an I-D that discusses this. Until it appears in the archives,
> you can pick up a copy at:
>
> http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen/papers/draft-rs-trip-gw-00.txt
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan R.
> --
> Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
> Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
> dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
> jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> http://www.dynamicsoft.com
>
>

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Spencer,

Thanks for your comments. Below are responses to some of your questions.

Hussein

Spencer.Giacalone@predictive.com wrote:
>
> Group,
>
> I read the TRIP draft, and I had some thoughts and questions:
>
> Section 5.2 (LS-IDs)
> Will TRIP use BGP "peering" statements? if not, would being able to have
different LS-IDs be confusing or cause network (config) problems?
> What is the advantage of having different LS-IDs if you are not peering
> Differently (using peering statements)?

Currently, TRIP's design focuses on only on address family: E.164.
However, TRIP is generic enough to support multiple address families in
the future. Different address families may be used by different
applications. Each application/address family may have different
requirements with respect to:
 - which LSs to peer with
 - defining the ITAD topology and boundaries
Permitting the same LS to use different LS-IDs with different peers
makes the above requirements possible. The effect will be like having
multiple logical LSs in the same box.

>
> Section 5.2.1.1, (IPSec)
> Is there any reason TRIP _couldn't_ rely on IPSec for security?
Conversely, what about
> implementations that don't support IPSec? There might be a problem with
> problem re-hashing changing headers, etc, though I think the IPv6 specs
> address that. Would TRIP's specification seem incomplete without security
> of it's own?
>
> Section 5.2.1.2, (Capabilities)
> Might we define more "defined capabilities" around the types of service
> needed by the end stations, or perhaps the throughput of the end
station's
> connection? The way GARP does this is interesting.

Such capabilities will be very difficult to aggregate, and I prefer to
keep them out of TRIP. Or, if there is real need for such capabilities,
they can be defined as optional attributes in separate drafts, similar
to what has been decided for the cost and capacity attributes.

>
> Section 5.3.3.2, (next-hop)
> Being able to set the next-hop is nice, but would there be confusion
> pertaining to how next-hop should be implemented? Are the current
> the definition of default behaviors specific enough?

I don't think TRIP should address this issue. In some networks TRIP will
be configured to set a new next hop at every intermediate ITAD along the
advertisement route while in other networks TRIP LSs will only when call
routes are aggregated.

>
> Section 5.3.4.7 (community)
> Why _wouldn't_ we want the community attribute? TRIP relies on many BGP
> features, why not use this one as well?

The consensus at the last meeting was to add the community attribute to
TRIP.

>
> Section 6.3.1 (port addresses)
> In my opinion, I it is not necessary to have a subnetwork_address_field.
> However, I do think that next hop ITAD should be included, as filtering,
etc
> may be based on this.
>
> Section  6.5 (routed path)
> I can see how a "routed path" might be more useful than an "advertisement
path".
> Wouldn't one always prefer to know the path the _will_ be taken? Does
TRIP need both advertisement path _and_ routed path?
>

The advertisement path is definitely needed to prevent advertisement
loops. The routed path is useful, because it tracks the actual signaling
path.

> Would the Routed Path attribute be more useful if we relax some of the
limitations on when an LS can change it (update the path), allowing
> it to be used more often?

What limitations are you referring to?

>
> Section 6.9
> Agree with updating topology when peer sets change, not using an
intra-ITAD keepalive.
>
> Terminology
> Is it confusing for the TRIP spec use the term "route" when referring
> to "call" routes _and_ IP routes?

Agreed, we'll revise this in a future revision of the draft.

>
> Spencer Giacalone
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

--
Hussein F. Salama
Cisco Systems
Mail Stop SJC6/3, 170 W. Tasman Drive, San Jose, CA 95134
Voice: +1 (408) 527-7147, Fax: +1 (408) 527-1714

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James,

Thanks for the excellent description of the process. Comments below:


James Yu wrote:
>
> Jonathan,
>
> North American Numbering Plan numbers have the format of NPA+NXX+XXXX
where
> NPA (Numbering Plan Area) is the area code and has the format of NXX (The
> area codes used to have the format of N0/1X where the second digit can be
> either 0 or 1. That restriction has been removed to allow more area codes
to
> be assigned.). N is any digit from 2 to 9 and X is any digit from 0 to 9.
> The NXX after NPA is called "office code."  Normally, a switch is
assigned
> the whole block of NPA+NXX (e.g., 212-455-0000 to 212-455-9999).  Now
> "number pooling" will allow several LECs to share one NPA+NXX.  That is,
a
> LEC will be assigned, for example, 212-477-1 (block from 212-477-1000 to
> 212-477-1999) and another LEC assigned 212-477-2 (block from 212-477-2000
to
> 212-477-2999).  We can talk about "number pooling" later if you or others
> have questions.  The focus of this discussion is on LRN and number
> portability.

Hmm, sounds familiar.... CIDR?

> If the TRIP information contains the reachability of subscriber number
> ranges, A GW that can reach Switch A but not Switch B will have to
indicate
> that it can reach +1-212-455-0000 to +1-212-455-1233 and
> +1-212-455-1235-+1-212-455-9999 (if only one number has been ported out
of
> Switch A).  The problem of this is that many ported-out numbers need to
be
> singled out from the reachable phone number ranges ranges.  This is a
minor
> problem when comparing to the bigger problem of updating the TRIP
> information every time a number changes its assoicated LRN after been
ported
> to a new LEC.

I think TRIP should carry subscriber numbers, but that the LNP dip
should happen before the TRIP database is accessed. So, returning to
your example, a gateway reaching only switch A would advertise
+1-212-455* and a gateway reaching only switch B +1-212-466*. A PC users
calls +1-212-455-1234. The INVITE is sent to its local proxy, which
first does an LNP dip. It translates this to an LRN of +1-212-456, which
is looked up in TRIP. The longest prefix match (which is an exact match
for the LRN) is found. The INVITE is then sent to the next hop towards
that LRN as learned through TRIP. The original dialed number will be
carried in the To field.

Note that we could also allow switch B to advertise +1-212-455-1234 in
TRIP. If the LNP dip is not done, the proxy will pick this because of
longest prefix matching, and the call still completes. However, I would
recommend doing this, since it will result in a completely flat TRIP
routing table.

-Jonathan R.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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To: Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>,
        John Mainwaring <crm312a@nortelnetworks.com>
Cc: "Mark D. Foster" <mark.foster@npac.com>,
        iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com,
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Jonathan Rosenburg wrote:
> I wonder if we can't think about this problem in more general terms.

yes, please!


> In the SIP model, each proxy owns some piece of the namespace
> (engineering.dynamicsoft.com, for example), and is therefore responsible
> for the definition of the user space (jdrosen@) within that domain.
> Thats why each proxy can, an usually will, perform some kind of URI
> translation independent from other proxies. Our underlying assumption
> was that usernames only have meaning within their domain. For example,
> with sip:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com, only a dynamicsoft.com proxy knows how
> to handle jdrosen. There might be jdrosen's in other domains that aren't
> me. However, in the case of telephone numbers, the proxy that owns the
> domain does not necessarily own the user space. sip:5551212@gateway.com,
> for example, uses a user name that is not "owned" by gateway.com, in the
> sense that this name has valid semantics outside of gateway.com. Other
> domains, like wcom.com, would know how to handle this number as well.
> Its possible that we might even see things besides phone numbers as user
> names that are valid across multiple domains. An example is (heaven
> forbid), social security numbers (in the US, at least):

The underlying problem here is differentiating between a phone-number and a
service-name-which-looks-like-a-number. Yes, the user=phone gives a hint on
nature od address, the "+" encodding gives a hint on the scope of address,
but it is still muddy.

There was some discussion of this problem wrt DCS during the November
interim meeting. It was suggested that a cross-domain destination which is
a
phone number could be better represented by a tel: URL than by confusing
the
scope of the user part of a sip: URL. This simplilifies life greatly.

Something like

     INVITE premiumservice@gateway.carrier.com
     To: tel:5551212;trans=lnp?gdbs

could be used to indicate to gateway.carrier.com that premium gateway
service is requested towards the PSTN location identified by telephone
number 5551212, that LNP and GDBS translation have been applied, and that
the phone number is of local scope for the gateway. Incidentally, I think I
just noticed a minor anomaly in the tel-url grammar -- don't see how to
encode more than one future-extension field . . .

--
Dean


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Sure. You can do something like:

<string-switch field="from">

   <string is="sip:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com">

        <string-switch field="to">

            <string is="sip:lennox@cs.columbia.edu">

               <proxy/>

            </string>

        </string-switch>

   </string>

</string-switch>

-Jonathan R.

Kam Lee wrote:
>
> Does CPL allow the nesting of string-switch'es and time-switch'es?
>
> thanks
> kam
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

---------
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From: James Yu <james.yu@neustar.com>
To: jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com
Cc: "'Vance Shipley'" <vances@motivity.ca>,
        John Mainwaring <crm312a@nortelnetworks.com>,
        Mark Foster <mark.foster@neustar.com>,
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It is fine with me.

James

> -----Original Message-----
> From: S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com
> [mailto:S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com]
> Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 4:40 AM
> To: James Yu
> Cc: 'Vance Shipley'; John Mainwaring; Mark Foster;
> iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com; sip@lists.research.bell-labs.com
> Subject: [SIP] Re: TRIP
> 
> 
> 
> 
> We've discussed this on the list. Several folks pointed out that
> European systems support overlap, and it was decided that it was not
> reasonable to mandate the originating gateway to do digit 
> collection to
> convert this to en-bloc, although it could be optionally done.
> 
> -Jonathan R.
> 
> James Yu wrote:
> >
> > Vance,
> >
> > Thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > The key questions now are whether overlap signaling (e.g., Feature
> Group-D
> > over Multi-Frequency facility) is still used somewhere and 
> if used where
> the
> > digit collection/enbloc signaling is performed in the existing SCN.
> >
> > If overlap signaling is still used (someone please confirm this and
> indicate
> > where it is still used) and a call is to be routed from the 
> originating
> SCN
> > to the Internet, I guess that the originating GW 
> (SCN-Internet)probably
> has
> > to perform the digit collection/enbloc signaling function 
> so that overlap
> > signaling does not propagate further into the Internet and/or the
> > destination GW/SCN.  Otherwise, some entities in the Internet must
> perform
> > that function.
> >
> > James
> >
> --
> Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
> Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
> dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
> jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> 
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> SIP mailing list
> SIP@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/sip
> 



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Date: Thu, 11 May 2000 19:34:53 -0400
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
Organization: dynamicsoft
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To: James Yu <james.yu@neustar.com>
Cc: "'Vance Shipley'" <vances@motivity.ca>,
        John Mainwaring <crm312a@nortelnetworks.com>,
        Mark Foster <mark.foster@neustar.com>,
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FYI, folks, please ignore all email you saw from
S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@aul.ibm.com. This mail is all resends of old
messages back to the list based on misconfiguration of a machine within
IBM.

-Jonathan R.

James Yu wrote:
> 
> It is fine with me.
> 
> James
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com
> > [mailto:S_S_Dinesh/India/IBM@au1.ibm.com]
> > Sent: Monday, May 08, 2000 4:40 AM
> > To: James Yu
> > Cc: 'Vance Shipley'; John Mainwaring; Mark Foster;
> > iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com; sip@lists.research.bell-labs.com
> > Subject: [SIP] Re: TRIP
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > We've discussed this on the list. Several folks pointed out that
> > European systems support overlap, and it was decided that it was not
> > reasonable to mandate the originating gateway to do digit
> > collection to
> > convert this to en-bloc, although it could be optionally done.
> >
> > -Jonathan R.
> >
> > James Yu wrote:
> > >
> > > Vance,
> > >
> > > Thanks for the explanation.
> > >
> > > The key questions now are whether overlap signaling (e.g., Feature
> > Group-D
> > > over Multi-Frequency facility) is still used somewhere and
> > if used where
> > the
> > > digit collection/enbloc signaling is performed in the existing SCN.
> > >
> > > If overlap signaling is still used (someone please confirm this and
> > indicate
> > > where it is still used) and a call is to be routed from the
> > originating
> > SCN
> > > to the Internet, I guess that the originating GW
> > (SCN-Internet)probably
> > has
> > > to perform the digit collection/enbloc signaling function
> > so that overlap
> > > signaling does not propagate further into the Internet and/or the
> > > destination GW/SCN.  Otherwise, some entities in the Internet must
> > perform
> > > that function.
> > >
> > > James
> > >
> > --
> > Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
> > Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
> > dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
> > jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> > http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> > http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> >
> > ---------
> > This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > SIP mailing list
> > SIP@lists.bell-labs.com
> > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/sip
> >

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com



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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sun May 14 18:34:39 2000
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Subject: [IPTEL] Document Action: A Framework for a Gateway Location Protocol
 to Informational
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The IESG has approved the Internet-Draft 'A Framework for a Gateway
Location Protocol' <draft-ietf-iptel-gwloc-framework-06.txt> as an
Informational RFC.  This document is the product of the IP Telephony
Working Group.  The IESG contact persons are Allison Mankin and Scott
Bradner



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>There was some discussion of this problem wrt DCS during the November
>interim meeting. It was suggested that a cross-domain destination which is
a
>phone number could be better represented by a tel: URL than by confusing
the
>scope of the user part of a sip: URL. This simplilifies life greatly.
>
>Something like
>
>    INVITE premiumservice@gateway.carrier.com
>    To: tel:5551212;trans=lnp?gdbs
>
>could be used to indicate to gateway.carrier.com that premium gateway
>service is requested towards the PSTN location identified by telephone
>number 5551212, that LNP and GDBS translation have been applied, and that
>the phone number is of local scope for the gateway.

Since the To: field isn't allowed to change during the transaction,
aren't you going to run into problems if some service along the way
determines that the called number needs to change (as the result of
LNP, 800/900 lookup, etc)?

For example; let's say that one of the services that I have out in the
network is a "reachable from anywhere" speed dialing list. It maps,
for example, "4" as a telephone number to "2145551212". So I launch
an invite to my local proxy:

  INVITE sip:4@proxy.spleen.com SIP/2.0
  To: tel:4

It goes through my service node:

  INVITE sip:4@usersvc-34987.spleen.com SIP/2.0
  To: tel:4

And he wants to send it on to your gateway for premium service, after
translating the 4 into "2145551212."

It's my interpretation that, under the model you're proposing,
I'd need to send along

  INVITE sip:premiumservice@gateway.carrier.com SIP/2.0
  To: tel:2145551212

But that would break the transaction, since the To: field has changed.

I understand the distinction between destination and service
activation that you're trying to make, but your example seems
unworkable. What am I missing?

--
Adam Roach, Ericsson Inc. |  Ph: +1 972 583 7594 | 1010 E. Arapaho, MS L-04
adam.roach@ericsson.com   | Fax: +1 972 669 0154 | Richardson, TX 75081 USA

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On Fri, February 11 2000, "Jonathan Rosenberg" wrote to "Henning
Schulzrinne, khom@vovida.com, iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com,
lennox@cs.columbia.edu" saying:

> OK; I'll buy this argument. Which tags need timeouts? Isn't it only
> proxy? I think perhaps a reasonable default is 30 seconds?

Proxy's the only case where lack of response (noanswer) and failure are
different.  I don't think we need to worry about setting default timeouts
for location lookup or the like.

--
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu

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Folks,

Every once in a while, the question comes up of why SIP REGISTER is not
the right vehicle for allowing gateways to register phone prefixes with
a proxy. I believe TRIP is far better for this purpose. As it turns out,
a small subset of TRIP is needed to solve this problem, and yet its
still interoperable with full blown TRIP. Hussein Salama and I have
written an I-D that discusses this. Until it appears in the archives,
you can pick up a copy at:

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen/papers/draft-rs-trip-gw-00.txt

Thanks,
Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com





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Group,

I read the TRIP draft, and I had some thoughts and questions:


Section 5.2 (LS-IDs)
Will TRIP use BGP "peering" statements? if not, would being able to have
different LS-IDs be confusing or cause network (config) problems?
What is the advantage of having different LS-IDs if you are not peering
Differently (using peering statements)?

Section 5.2.1.1, (IPSec)
Is there any reason TRIP _couldn't_ rely on IPSec for security? Conversely,
what about
implementations that don't support IPSec? There might be a problem with
problem re-hashing changing headers, etc, though I think the IPv6 specs
address that. Would TRIP's specification seem incomplete without security
of it's own?

Section 5.2.1.2, (Capabilities)
Might we define more "defined capabilities" around the types of service
needed by the end stations, or perhaps the throughput of the end station's
connection? The way GARP does this is interesting.

Section 5.3.3.2, (next-hop)
Being able to set the next-hop is nice, but would there be confusion
pertaining to how next-hop should be implemented? Are the current
the definition of default behaviors specific enough?

Section 5.3.4.7 (community)
Why _wouldn't_ we want the community attribute? TRIP relies on many BGP
features, why not use this one as well?

Section 6.3.1 (port addresses)
In my opinion, I it is not necessary to have a subnetwork_address_field.
However, I do think that next hop ITAD should be included, as filtering,
etc
may be based on this.

Section  6.5 (routed path)
I can see how a "routed path" might be more useful than an "advertisement
path".
Wouldn't one always prefer to know the path the _will_ be taken? Does TRIP
need both advertisement path _and_ routed path?

Would the Routed Path attribute be more useful if we relax some of the
limitations on when an LS can change it (update the path), allowing
it to be used more often?

Section 6.9
Agree with updating topology when peer sets change, not using an intra-ITAD
keepalive.

Terminology
Is it confusing for the TRIP spec use the term "route" when referring
to "call" routes _and_ IP routes?


Spencer Giacalone


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Subject: [IPTEL] RTP measuring
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Hello all,

I have three questions related to RTP/RTCP.
1. Are there any  tools for monitoring RTP/RTCP (free or commercial)? I am
interested especially in RTP analysis, and not RTCP parsing. And, if there
are, which are their capabilities?
In order to restrict the range of replies, I must mention that I've already
found:
- Hammer VoIP Test System - analysing all the parameters (drop packets,
jitter, delay) within a VoIP call
- HP Internet Advisor - similar
(for these two commercial packages, I couldn't get more information about
what actually is monitored)
- rtpmon, which is free, but, in spite of its name, it is an RTCP
monitor.

2. Can anybody explain me what is the structure of a compound RTCP packet?
I know, from the RTP specification, that it looks like this:


if encrypted: random 32-bit integer
|
|[------- packet -------][----------- packet -----------][-packet-]
|
| receiver reports chunk chunk
V item item item item
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|R[SR|# sender #site#site][SDES|# CNAME PHONE |#CNAME LOC][BYE##why]
|R[  |# report #  1 #  2 ][    |#             |#         ][   ##   ]
|R[  |#        #    #    ][    |#             |#         ][   ##   ]
|R[  |#        #    #    ][    |#             |#         ][   ##   ]
--------------------------------------------------------------------
|<------------------ UDP packet (compound packet) --------------->|
#: SSRC/CSRC

The question is, as I couldn't understand the figure: how is the above
figure packetised in UDP packets (is it 'line-by-line') ?

3. Are there any standards for encrypting RTP/RTCP (in relation with H.323)
? Besides inserting the 32-bit integer in the RTCP packet and using DES
there is nothing else specified.


Thank you very much
Best regards
Bogdan Ghita

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To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:@smtp2.cluster.oleane.net;>
Subject: SIP 2000 International Conference
Date: Mon, 6 Mar 2000 10:33:45 +0100
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Unknown and even rejected by many vendors and operators only a few =
months ago, SIP is on the brink of making a definitive name for itself.=20
Visit the SIP 2000 International Conference programme:
http://www.upperside.fr/basip.htm


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Subject: [IPTEL] uploading services from the user's  home network to a sip server
 of the visited network within a 3G.IP environement
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Hi,

after doing a very good job by deciding to take SIP for call control for
multimedia services within 3G.IP networks, the 3G.IP operators have a lot
of open items concerning the architecture, one of them being which network
controls the services for a roaming user: the home network, the visited
network or shared control. The concrete question: how can I upload at the
begin or during the call the roamimg user's services available in the home
network into the SIP proxy of the visited network? As far as I know, the
CPL and REGISTER helps me to upload services only from the UA to the proxy.

Is anyone else working on similar issues? I know of the Telcordia mobility
efforts, but the 3G.IP requirements and architecture seem to be somehow
different. The 3G.IP operators would like to reuse their just implemented
GPRS and the GPRS mobility.

Thanks a lot
Laura





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> John Mainwaring wrote:
>
> |> Note that we could also allow switch B to advertise
> |+1-212-455-1234 in
> |> TRIP. If the LNP dip is not done, the proxy will pick this because
> of
> |> longest prefix matching, and the call still completes.
> |However, I would
> |> recommend doing this, since it will result in a completely flat
> TRIP
> |> routing table.
>
> I assume that's a typo for "recommend NOT doing this".  In the same
> way, it may be best not to attempt to maintain full portability
> information or do LNP queries at source for all calls, no matter where
> they're bound.

Yes, that was a typo. I do not recommend injecting each ported number
into TRIP.
I'm less sure about deferring the LNP query to N-1. In the SIP
architecture,
at least, each proxy is responsible for doing a translation function
(called the
location service), which is similar in concept to an LNP database query.
I'll also
note that I have been told that the LNP dip being done at the N-1
carrier is
only a north american thing, and that in Europe, its done differently.


-Jonathan R.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

---------
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|-----Original Message-----
|From: Jonathan Rosenberg [mailto:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com]
|
|> John Mainwaring wrote:
|>
|> |The problem is related to past discussions on the SIP mailing list
|> |regarding overlap dialing. A terminating gateway would look at
|> |sip:1212344, and know how to route it, but might not know whether
|> this
|> |was a dialed number with more digits coming, or an LRN. Does it
|> matter?
|> |Not being an ISUP expert, I'm not sure. If it does matter, something
|> |like user=lrn within the SIP URL would fix that.
|>
|> user=lrn is almost right.  If you have queried a portable number and
|> found that it is not ported, then the DN has the same status
|as an LRN
|> would have if the number were ported (i.e. it should be treated as
|> authoritative for routing).  user=np-queried might be closer to the
|> mark.
|
|I wonder if we can't think about this problem in more general terms.
|
|In the SIP model, each proxy owns some piece of the namespace
|(engineering.dynamicsoft.com, for example), and is therefore
|responsible
|for the definition of the user space (jdrosen@) within that domain.
|Thats why each proxy can, an usually will, perform some kind of URI
|translation independent from other proxies. Our underlying assumption
|was that usernames only have meaning within their domain. For example,
|with sip:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com, only a dynamicsoft.com proxy
|knows how
|to handle jdrosen. There might be jdrosen's in other domains
|that aren't
|me. However, in the case of telephone numbers, the proxy that owns the
|domain does not necessarily own the user space.
|sip:5551212@gateway.com,
|for example, uses a user name that is not "owned" by
|gateway.com, in the
|sense that this name has valid semantics outside of gateway.com. Other
|domains, like wcom.com, would know how to handle this number as well.
|Its possible that we might even see things besides phone
|numbers as user
|names that are valid across multiple domains. An example is (heaven
|forbid), social security numbers (in the US, at least):
|
|sip:123-45-6789@wcom.com;user=ssn
|
|Now, I might imagine that some kind of mobility services might be
|supplied for these names, so they might need to be translated also.
|
|I'll call these type of user names "cross domain user names".
|
|With cross domain user names, this is where we run into issues
|like "has
|the number been queried yet". However, I think we might see other
|translation mechanisms besides LNP. Soooo, might it not be useful to
|define URI parameters that indicate what global translation services
|have been applied to a cross domain user name?
|
|As an example:
|
|sip:15551212@cisco.com;user=phone;trans="lnp,gdbs"
|
|where lnp and gdbs are some kind of global translation services that
|apply to names of the type phone.
|
|For cross domain user names, we will always need a URI parameter to
|indicate the global namespace from which these names are drawn. In the
|case of phone numbers, thats user=phone. Our original intent with the
|user=phone parameter was to specify only the type of BNF used for the
|user part of the URI. But, the more general operation of
|specifying both
|the format and the namespace seems useful.

I think the problem is a bit different.  919-555-1212 uniquely identifies a
user within the North American Numbering Plan.  It's just that with LNP it
can no longer locate the user.  If someone wants to use
919-555-1212@vanity.org as an email address and someone else uses
919-555-1212@workplace.com, that's fine, but has nothing to do with
telephone numbers.  I think I want to be able to place a call when all I
know is 919-555-1212.

Without LNP, it would have been fairly easy to  discover that 919-555
implied bellsouth, so the number could have been given as
919-555-1212@bellsouth.com.  Now it is possible that some numbers from
919-555 might be ported to othertel.com.  Othertel might the native owner
of
919-444-xxxx numbers and might choose to host 919-555-1313 on their 919-444
exchange.  In that case, the LRN for 919-555-1313 would be 919-444.  Once I
have done an LNP query, I might want to use something like
919-555-1212@919-555.bellsouth.com for a number that has not been ported
and
919-555-1313@919-444.othertel.com for a number that has been ported to
othertel.

I can't shorten the 10 digit number in the user name, because of things
like
NPA overlays and switches that host multiple office codes.  I need the full
address to select the right user as well as the LRN to route to the right
place.

If a SIP user wants to call someone who uses a PSTN phone, the system needs
to deal with certain inconvenient aspects of the PSTN. A notation like
919-555-1212@919-555 or 919-555-1313@919-444 might be useful to indicate
that an LNP query has been done, and that authoritative routing information
is now available.  Appending text-based names such as
919-555-1212@919-555@onetel.com or 919-555-1313@919-444@anothertel.com
might
even allow subsequent routing to take place without further concessions to
PSTN quirkiness.

Of course this system could also be expanded to mobility services; routing
for 919-555-1313 could be set to 212-666-1414@212-666.bigappletel.com in
the
daytime and 919-555-1313@919-444.othertel.com in the evening if you went in
for that kind of commuting.

|> It's also necessary to define what the TRIP should do differently
|> depending on whether the np-queried indication is present.  I must
|> admit I came into this discussion mainly because I have worked on
|> LNP.  I assume the objective is not to route unqueried calls to the
|> donor proxy.
|
|Hmm. This is something thats also different from the PSTN. The cost of
|routing to the donor proxy in SIP is much less, since proxies can be
|stateless. Thus, if a proxy receives a call for some number that is
|ported, it stateless proxies the call towards the next destination. The
|result is that there is no triangle routing for media (there generally
|isn't), nor for subsequent signaling. There is only marginal cost for
|the donor provider. There are obviously polticial and business issues;
|one may not want to trust or rely upon the donor proxy at all,
|as is the
|case of LNP in the US. But, the general SIP model is that we assume
|proxies do route calls; no security measures can prevent a proxy from
|dropping messages. Why, in the case of LNP, do we now need to assume
|these proxies won't route calls?
|
|
|
|
| I have noted that originator query may not be practical
|> for nationwide calling and that donor proxy is too late unless you're
|> prepared to consider RTP.
|
|The assumption of the impractability of originator queries has
|everything to do with the existing structure of LNP. Its
|mainly because,
|AFAIK, the systems are different all over the world. However, if we use
|the IP model, with a DNS solution, its no harder to query for a number
|on the other side of the planet as it would be for a number next door.

No, it's not quite as simple as that.  The system is designed around the
strengths and weaknesses of the PSTN.  The the architecture of the pstn
makes it easy to route calls on partial information, but switches in the
pstn perform better if they do as few database queries as possible.
Switches work fine if they have no idea of the portability status of most
numbers; they are only set up to query nearby numbers.  A switch doesn't
need authoritative data that a number is not portable.  It just needs to be
set up to query that (local) subset of portable numbers which it would
misroute if it didn't query them.

The LNP databases are distributed because of the geographic restrictions on
Bell Operating Companies.  Each RBOC only has to worry about its own data,
and only has to route queries within its own SS7 signalling network.

There are actually two levels of database, the SCPs that actually handle
queries and the NPAC (?) which processes administrative change requests and
downloads the SCPs.  There could be several SCPs owned by different
operating companies that contain the same data; each operating company
would
route queries to its own SCP.  The NPAC service is provided by NeuStar,
formerly Lockheed Martin, and Mark Foster of Neustar has given us some
excellent information on LNP within this thread.

It seems unlikely that IP telephony would use the existing SCPs for
queries,
or that it would be based on SS7 TCAP messaging.  I don't have a clear idea
of what databases there would be for IP telephony, but they would certainly
have to arrange to download data from the NPAC.  There are costs associated
with the databases and with keeping the LNP information up to date.

If you want to do source routing, it will certainly take a non-trivial
effort to make North American or even world wide LNP information
accessible.
There would be a case for aggregating it with whatever centralized routing
servers there are, or for arranging for the destination's proxy to return
information about ported numbers instead of simply refusing the invitation.

|Also, pardon my ignorance, but what is RTP? Many of us on this
|list know
|RTP as the Real Time Transport Protocol (rfc1889) but I don't think
|thats what you mean.

In that context, RTP = Release To Pivot; switch A routes a call to switch B
which may provide some service and then releases the call back to A (the
pivot switch) with instructions to reroute the call to destination C.
Sorry, I thought I had expanded it earlier.

Is there any TLA in our businsess that only has one expansion?  What does
TLA mean apart from Three Letter Acronym?

| One answer might be for the TRIP to provide
|> a response on unqueried numbers that routes to an intermediate server
|> that does know how to do NP queries for the destination DN.
|
|TRIP is not a query protocol. Its a routing protocol. This would be a
|SIP function, and is already possible. "408 Not Found".

But why was it not found?  In the telephony e.164 numbering domain prior to
LNP, "not found" meant "does not exist".  LNP required switches to add
"might be somewhere else" logic.  It would be desirable for a routing agent
to say something more informative than "not found", if  it had any
additional information.

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sun May 14 21:52:32 2000
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To: "Liess, Laura" <Laura.Liess@telekom.de>
Cc: sip@lists.research.bell-labs.com, iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com
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Subject: [IPTEL] Re: uploading services from the user's  home network to a sip
 server of  the visited network within a 3G.IP environement
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"Liess, Laura" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> after doing a very good job by deciding to take SIP for call control for
multimedia services within 3G.IP >networks, the 3G.IP operators have a lot
of open items concerning the architecture, one of them being which >network
controls the services for a roaming user: the home network, the visited
network or shared control. >The concrete question: how can I upload at the
begin or during the call the roamimg user's services >available in the home
network into the SIP proxy of the visited network? As far as I know, the
CPL and >REGISTER helps me to upload services only from the UA to the
proxy.

I'm not an expert in wireless, so I'm not certain of the scope of the
services we are talking about. Mid call services, for example, are not
currently within the scope of CPL. However, there is nothing which
prevents the CPL-upload-in-register mechanism from being used by a
server to upload scripts to another server. Registrations, in general,
can be used for third party controls. The From field identifies the
party initiating the registration.

-Jonathan R.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com





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Greetings all -

Just wanted to alert everyone that ChipCenter, the new center of the
electronics universe, will be hosting a live "IP Telephony" Webcast for
Motorola Semiconductor Products Sector on February 25th at Noon PST.  The
subject matter will be presented by 2 Motorola SPS design engineers and
ChipCenter's very own Communications Editor, Lee Goldberg.  Below you will
find a link to the registration page which also contains background
information and other items of interest.  Please feel free to join us for
this free interactive online tutorial.

webevents.broadcast.com/motorola/chipcenter022000/

Sincerely,

-Andy

Andy Speter
Director of Strategic Accounts
ChipCenter LLC
7 Pinoak Court
Huntington Station, NY 11746
(516) 423-6830 phone
(516) 423-6786 fax
www.chipcenter.com

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sun May 14 22:14:51 2000
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Subject: [IPTEL] CPL Framework document approved
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Folks,

I've just heard that the CPL framework document was just approved by
IESG as an Informational RFC.

-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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Folks,

The iptel working group has been tentatively scheduled for Monday, March
27, 1930 - 2200 at IETF 47 in Adelaide.

-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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OK; I'll buy this argument. Which tags need timeouts? Isn't it only
proxy? I think perhaps a reasonable default is 30 seconds?

-Jonathan R.

Henning Schulzrinne wrote:
>
> Since CPL scripts can explicitly provide timeouts, server-based defaults
> don't offer significant policy control to the server. However, they do
> open up weird interoperability issues ("my script worked fine yesterday,
> you upgraded the server and suddenly all my calls go to voice mail").
> Given that we specify default for parameters in SIP, I would argue that
> defaults in the spec aid interoperability and portability of scripts.
> Too many tunable server parameters aren't in anybody's interest. Having
> default parameters also allows "script testers" to reason about overall
> script behavior, e.g., with several proxy attempts, how long will it
> take overall until the call gets sent to voicemail.
>
> Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
> >
> > None defined right now as I recall. I'm not sure there needs to be a
> > standard default. It might be OK for the proxy to set the default
> > administratively.
> >
> > -Jonathan R.
> >
> > Kenny Hom wrote:
> > >
> > > Regarding the Call Processing Language (CPL) draft, are there default
> > > timeout values for the elements that accept timeout as an argument if
> > > the user does not specify a value?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Kenny Hom
> > > Senior Software Engineer
> > > Vovida Networks, 2150 Trade Zone Blvd. 105, San Jose, CA 95131
> > > [W] (408) 941-1790 / [F] (408) 941-1791
> > >
> > > ---------
> > > This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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> John Mainwaring wrote:
>
> |The problem is related to past discussions on the SIP mailing list
> |regarding overlap dialing. A terminating gateway would look at
> |sip:1212344, and know how to route it, but might not know whether
> this
> |was a dialed number with more digits coming, or an LRN. Does it
> matter?
> |Not being an ISUP expert, I'm not sure. If it does matter, something
> |like user=lrn within the SIP URL would fix that.
>
> user=lrn is almost right.  If you have queried a portable number and
> found that it is not ported, then the DN has the same status as an LRN
> would have if the number were ported (i.e. it should be treated as
> authoritative for routing).  user=np-queried might be closer to the
> mark.

I wonder if we can't think about this problem in more general terms.

In the SIP model, each proxy owns some piece of the namespace
(engineering.dynamicsoft.com, for example), and is therefore responsible
for the definition of the user space (jdrosen@) within that domain.
Thats why each proxy can, an usually will, perform some kind of URI
translation independent from other proxies. Our underlying assumption
was that usernames only have meaning within their domain. For example,
with sip:jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com, only a dynamicsoft.com proxy knows how
to handle jdrosen. There might be jdrosen's in other domains that aren't
me. However, in the case of telephone numbers, the proxy that owns the
domain does not necessarily own the user space. sip:5551212@gateway.com,
for example, uses a user name that is not "owned" by gateway.com, in the
sense that this name has valid semantics outside of gateway.com. Other
domains, like wcom.com, would know how to handle this number as well.
Its possible that we might even see things besides phone numbers as user
names that are valid across multiple domains. An example is (heaven
forbid), social security numbers (in the US, at least):

sip:123-45-6789@wcom.com;user=ssn

Now, I might imagine that some kind of mobility services might be
supplied for these names, so they might need to be translated also.

I'll call these type of user names "cross domain user names".

With cross domain user names, this is where we run into issues like "has
the number been queried yet". However, I think we might see other
translation mechanisms besides LNP. Soooo, might it not be useful to
define URI parameters that indicate what global translation services
have been applied to a cross domain user name?

As an example:

sip:15551212@cisco.com;user=phone;trans="lnp,gdbs"

where lnp and gdbs are some kind of global translation services that
apply to names of the type phone.

For cross domain user names, we will always need a URI parameter to
indicate the global namespace from which these names are drawn. In the
case of phone numbers, thats user=phone. Our original intent with the
user=phone parameter was to specify only the type of BNF used for the
user part of the URI. But, the more general operation of specifying both
the format and the namespace seems useful.


>
> It's also necessary to define what the TRIP should do differently
> depending on whether the np-queried indication is present.  I must
> admit I came into this discussion mainly because I have worked on
> LNP.  I assume the objective is not to route unqueried calls to the
> donor proxy.

Hmm. This is something thats also different from the PSTN. The cost of
routing to the donor proxy in SIP is much less, since proxies can be
stateless. Thus, if a proxy receives a call for some number that is
ported, it stateless proxies the call towards the next destination. The
result is that there is no triangle routing for media (there generally
isn't), nor for subsequent signaling. There is only marginal cost for
the donor provider. There are obviously polticial and business issues;
one may not want to trust or rely upon the donor proxy at all, as is the
case of LNP in the US. But, the general SIP model is that we assume
proxies do route calls; no security measures can prevent a proxy from
dropping messages. Why, in the case of LNP, do we now need to assume
these proxies won't route calls?




 I have noted that originator query may not be practical
> for nationwide calling and that donor proxy is too late unless you're
> prepared to consider RTP.

The assumption of the impractability of originator queries has
everything to do with the existing structure of LNP. Its mainly because,
AFAIK, the systems are different all over the world. However, if we use
the IP model, with a DNS solution, its no harder to query for a number
on the other side of the planet as it would be for a number next door.

Also, pardon my ignorance, but what is RTP? Many of us on this list know
RTP as the Real Time Transport Protocol (rfc1889) but I don't think
thats what you mean.


 One answer might be for the TRIP to provide
> a response on unqueried numbers that routes to an intermediate server
> that does know how to do NP queries for the destination DN.

TRIP is not a query protocol. Its a routing protocol. This would be a
SIP function, and is already possible. "408 Not Found".

-Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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Since CPL scripts can explicitly provide timeouts, server-based defaults
don't offer significant policy control to the server. However, they do
open up weird interoperability issues ("my script worked fine yesterday,
you upgraded the server and suddenly all my calls go to voice mail").
Given that we specify default for parameters in SIP, I would argue that
defaults in the spec aid interoperability and portability of scripts.
Too many tunable server parameters aren't in anybody's interest. Having
default parameters also allows "script testers" to reason about overall
script behavior, e.g., with several proxy attempts, how long will it
take overall until the call gets sent to voicemail.

Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
>
> None defined right now as I recall. I'm not sure there needs to be a
> standard default. It might be OK for the proxy to set the default
> administratively.
>
> -Jonathan R.
>
> Kenny Hom wrote:
> >
> > Regarding the Call Processing Language (CPL) draft, are there default
> > timeout values for the elements that accept timeout as an argument if
> > the user does not specify a value?
> >
> > --
> > Kenny Hom
> > Senior Software Engineer
> > Vovida Networks, 2150 Trade Zone Blvd. 105, San Jose, CA 95131
> > [W] (408) 941-1790 / [F] (408) 941-1791
> >
> > ---------
> > This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

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Subject: [IPTEL] Informal Last Call: Common Gateway Interface for SIP
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With the submission of the most recent version of the SIP Common Gateway
Interface, we'd like to announce an informal Last Call on this document (in
place of a Working Group last call, since this draft has no associated
working group).  We'll solicit comments for four weeks, until March 31,
2000.  At that time we'll submit this draft for Informational RFC status.

Comments on the draft should be sent to the SIP mailing list
sip@lists.research.bell-labs.com, or to the authors.



     Title          : Common Gateway Interface for SIP
     Author(s) : J. Lennox, J. Rosenberg, H. Schulzrinne
     Filename  : draft-lennox-sip-cgi-03.txt,.ps
     Pages          : 38
     Date      : 02-Mar-00

In Internet telephony, there must be a means by which new services
are created and deployed rapidly. In the World Wide Web, the Common
Gateway Interface (CGI) has served as popular means towards
programming web services. Due to the similarities between the Session
Initiation Protocol (SIP) and the Hyper Text Transfer Protocol
(HTTP), CGI seems a good candidate for service creation in a SIP
environment. This draft proposes a SIP-CGI interface for providing
SIP services on a SIP server.

URLs for this Internet-Draft are:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lennox-sip-cgi-03.txt
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-lennox-sip-cgi-03.ps
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~lennox/draft-lennox-sip-cgi-03.pdf

The Postscript and PDF versions contain changebars indicating changes from
the previous version.

--
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu

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Ladies and Gentlemen!

Computer Networks Journal plans to publish in February 2001 a special
issue on "Voice / Data Integration - A Snapshot of Intelligent Network
and Interent Convergence".

Guest editors: T. Magedanz (IKV++) and M. Smirnov (GMD FOKUS)

Deadline for submission is June 2000!
Maybe a good candidate for disseminating your results!

For more infos look at: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/IN-Internet/

Best regards,
Thomas Magedanz (magedanz@ikv.de)

IKV++ GmbH, Bernburger Str. 24-25, D-10963 Berlin, Germany



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"James M. Polk" wrote:
>
> All
>
> Parallel question on the reliance of TRIP -- isn't it based on using
> BGP? If that is strickly true, what happens to the SIP Device if BGP
> isn't deployed within a VoIP network domain that still wants to locate
> the Gateway?

TRIP borrows many ideas from BGP, but it in no way whatsoever requires
BGP to actually be running on routers in the network. TRIP runs at the
application layer, between location servers. It doesn't matter one drop
what the underlying layer 3 routing protocols are.

-Jonathan R.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
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Both are viewed as different approaches for creating VoIP services. Both
are written offline, and both are executed when messages arrive in order
to execute features.

The difference is in the applicability. CPL is designed for end user
service creation. Its purposefully limited in capabilities; its not a
general purpose programming language. Its execution on a server is
generally very fast. CGI is more powerful - you can do nearly anything.
Its programming language independent. It incurs a process-spawning
overhead, so its less efficient than CPL, (CPL is usually executed in
the same process as the server). As a service provider, I would not want
to execute CGI scripts sent to me by end users. However, I would prefer
to use CGI to develop my own services.

Note, however, nothing prevents you from use CGI as the execution
envrionment for a CPL script, which is what I think you are suggesting.

-Jonathan R.

"Mikael Larsson L (ERA)" wrote:
>
> Hello,
> I have following questions I hope someone could give an answer on:
>
> Could CPL and SIP-CGI be seen as complementary or should they be
> viewed as two different approaches for creating e.g. telephony features?
>
> To me it seems that CPL could be used as an off-line service creation
> technology and SIP-CGI used for real-time service operation during
> traffic which then would mean they could complement each other.
> I.e. write the service with CPL as a kind of SIP CGI script that is
> called in during traffic.
>
> Regards,
> Mikael Larsson
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
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Adam wrote:
> Dean blurted
> >Something like
> >
> >  INVITE premiumservice@gateway.carrier.com
> >  To: tel:5551212;trans=lnp?gdbs
> >
> >could be used to indicate to gateway.carrier.com that premium gateway
> >service is requested towards the PSTN location identified by telephone
> >number 5551212, that LNP and GDBS translation have been applied, and
that
> >the phone number is of local scope for the gateway.
>
> Since the To: field isn't allowed to change during the transaction,
> aren't you going to run into problems if some service along the way
> determines that the called number needs to change (as the result of
> LNP, 800/900 lookup, etc)?

Right you are. That should teach me not to come up with examples while
squatting on one of those interminable telco conference calls.

But I still think using a tel: url gives a cleaner semantic than
sip:number@gateway;user=phone.

I was talking with some guys today about scope and context, and I'm
inclined
to think we need the nature of address and numbering plan indicator fields
out of some ISUP variants. Scope appears to be global, local, or private,
with some need to represent local and private within some context like area
code or private numbering plan.

So, for example

tel:+19727294162 is a global number with unspecified context,
tel:9727294162 is a local number
tel:7724162;phone-context=mcivnet34 is a private number with context in the
MCI private numbering plan #34
tel:4512345687724162;phone-context=mciswtrunk is a private number, in
numbering plan 45, relative to switch 123 and trunk group 45678
. . . and whatever other sick private variants one might come up with


--
Dean


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To: <Undisclosed-Recipient:@smtp1.cluster.oleane.net;>
Subject: Implementing H.323 
Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 10:55:44 +0200
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Implementing H.323 : conference=20
10-13 October 2000
CFP online at:
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Hello!

The registration for the 3rd SIP bakeoff is closed!

The popularity of this event has by far exceeded expectations.
Instead of having 15-17 teams as we expected, there are 33 teams
now on the final list and nearly 100 people.

Here is the final list of participating teams:

Name                Team Size  Contact
---------------------------------------
Nortel-1             5          orton@nortelnetworks.com
Pingtel              2          dpetrie@pingtel.com
Nortel-2             2          cjessen@nortelnetworks.com
Mediatrix            2          etremblay@mediatrix.com
Netspeak             2          noreilly@netspeak.com
Telogy               1          wkwok@telogy.com
Nuera                4          cteoh@nuera.com
Catapult             4          terry@catapult.com
Ericsson-2           3          hans@erix.ericsson.se
Mitel                2          Ashok_Ganesan@Mitel.COM
Agilent              2          douglas_carson@agilent.com
Dynamicsoft          3          vpatel@dynamicsoft.com
Broadsoft            4          joyce@broadsoft.com
VTEL                 2          rkrishna@vtel.com
Delta                3          nurban@delta-info.com
Radcom               2          mwinslow@radcomusa.com
E*Club               2          jon2@andrew.cmu.edu
8x8                  4          artru@8x8.com
Helsinki Tech U.     2          jose@tct.hut.fi
Columbia U.          3          hgs@cs.columbia.edu
HP Labs              1          ak@hplb.hpl.hp.com
Indigo               3          eb@indigo-software.com
OZ.com               2          jii@oz.com
Vovida               3          ldang@vovida.com
Cisco                3          manojb@cisco.com
IPCell               2          alex@ipcell.com
FacetCorp            5          clark@facetcorp.com
MCIW-3               4          kelvin.porter@wcom.com
3Com-1               2          Jerry_Mahler@mw.3com.com
MCIW-1               3          mohammad.vakil@wcom.com
Ericsson-1           3          adam.roach@ericsson.com
3Com-2               2          Ravandhu_hariram@3com.com
MCIW-2               5          steven.r.donovan@wcom.com
-----------------------------------------
TOTAL:  92 participants in 33 teams


Have a nice thanksgiving everyone!!

Regards,
Ulf


--
Ulf Andersson
Ericsson Inc          +1 972 583 7537        ulf.andersson@ericsson.com



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Folks,

Every once in a while, the question comes up of why SIP REGISTER is not
the right vehicle for allowing gateways to register phone prefixes with
a proxy. I believe TRIP is far better for this purpose. As it turns out,
a small subset of TRIP is needed to solve this problem, and yet its
still interoperable with full blown TRIP. Hussein Salama and I have
written an I-D that discusses this. Until it appears in the archives,
you can pick up a copy at:

http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen/papers/draft-rs-trip-gw-00.txt

Thanks,
Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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I have an additional question.

How OSP is positionned, compared with the ITU-T H.225 Annex G standard
which provides an architecture, protocol and operations to solve
inter-domain routing ? My feeling is that they are competitors.
What is the rationale, scope, and current status of OSP ?

Attached below the H.225 annex G for those who are not aware o this
standard
(See attached file: TD-27.zip)





Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com> on 23/11/99 22:35:29



 To:      Stephen Thomas <stephen.thomas@transnexus.com>

 cc:      Gerry Reilly <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>, IPTEL
          IETF Mailing List
          <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>, Matt Squire
          <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>(bcc: Philippe
          TERRIEN/FR/ALCATEL)



 Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP







Thanks for the clarification, Stephen.

Based on this, I see their roles as complementary. An OSP server needs
some way to build up the routing table it uses to answer OSP queries.
TRIP fits this need perfectly. In fact, OSP is effectively what is
called "the front end" in the TRIP framework document; its the way by
which TRIP databases are accessed. OSP is a query protocol, and TRIP is
more like a routing protocol.

-Jonathan R.

Stephen Thomas wrote:
>
> Matt has some of the essentials exactly right, but OSP
> can (optionally) provide call routing information as
> well as authorization. A typical application would
> work something like this:
>
>   Server X in domain 1 needs to locate a peer (e.g.
>     a terminating gateway to complete a call to the
>     PSTN).
>
>   Server X uses OSP (as a client) to query a third
>     party for the call routing and authorization
>     information.
>
>   Server X recieves the IP address of Server Y and
>     an authorization token that will grant it access
>     to the peer (sort of like Kerberos).
>
>   Server X sets up a the call to server Y (e.g. SIP
>     INVITE), including the authorization token
>     (e.g. as per draft-thomas-mime-osp-token-00.txt).
>
>   After the call is released, servers X and Y use OSP
>     to report usage information.
>
> To Matt's specific questions:
>
>   OSP Servers can route based on E.164 numbers as well as other
>     identifiers (e.g. email addresses).
>
>   Routing policies and route selection are up to the OSP
>     Server.
>
> At a high enough level, there is overlap between TRIP and
> OSP. OSP does things other than call routing as well, but
> where the overlap exists, I would characterize the
> difference as primarily one of philosophy. TRIP is
> a distributed protocol like IP routing protocols (BGP,
> and also RIP, OSPF, ...). OSP is a hierarchical protocol
> like directory service protocols (DNS, LDAP, ...)
>
> Stephen
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Matt Squire" <msquire@nortelnetworks.com>
> To: "Gerry Reilly" <gerry@projects.telecity.co.uk>;
> <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
> Sent: 23 November 1999 10:32 AM
> Subject: Re: new subscriber question on OSP
>
> |
> | My understanding of OSP was that it was basically an authorization and
> | accounting protocol - server X in domain 1 can request access to server
Y
> | in domain 2, transmit usage records, etc.  I know its a bit more
> | complicated than this, but this is my one sentence summary.  OSP is,
> | generally, much more comparable to the work going on in AAA than here.
I
> | didn't think it was designed to route signalling messages.
> |
> | So I'm not aware of the route selection capabilities of OSP, in
particular
> | whether it makes routing decisions based upon E164 numbers, what kind
of
> | routing policies and route selection it supports, etc.  To the extent
that
> | OSP does these things, there may indeed be overlap.  Just don't know
> enough
> | about OSP to answer definitively.
> |
> |
> | At 03:11 PM 11/22/99 +0000, Gerry Reilly wrote:
> | >Hi
> | >
> | >Please forgive this newbee question.
> | >
> | >I've been reading through the TBGP, SCSP & TRIP drafts with great
> | >interest:-) As a relative newcomer to the VoIP area, I'm not entirely
> | >clear as to where the Open Settlements Protocol fits into the model,
if
> at
> | >all.
> | >
> | >OSP seems to claim to be designed for inter-domain route selection as
> well
> | >as facilitating billing.
> | >Would this protocol supplement TRIP, or am I missing the point?
> | >
> | >Kind Regards
> | >
> | >Gerry Reilly
> | >
> | >
> | >
> | >---------
> | >This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> | >
> |
> | Matt Squire
> | Nortel Networks
> | innovations.lab
> | msquire@nortelnetworks.com
> | (919)992-9048
> |
> | ---------
> | This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.
> |
>
> ---------
> This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

---------
This message came from the IETF IPTEL Working Group Mailing List.


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To: "Liess, Laura" <Laura.Liess@telekom.de>
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Date: Mon, 8 May 2000 14:10:07 +0530
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Subject: [IPTEL] Re: uploading services from the user's  home network to a sip
 server of  the visited network within a 3G.IP environement
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"Liess, Laura" wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> after doing a very good job by deciding to take SIP for call control for
multimedia services within 3G.IP >networks, the 3G.IP operators have a lot
of open items concerning the architecture, one of them being which >network
controls the services for a roaming user: the home network, the visited
network or shared control. >The concrete question: how can I upload at the
begin or during the call the roamimg user's services >available in the home
network into the SIP proxy of the visited network? As far as I know, the
CPL and >REGISTER helps me to upload services only from the UA to the
proxy.

I'm not an expert in wireless, so I'm not certain of the scope of the
services we are talking about. Mid call services, for example, are not
currently within the scope of CPL. However, there is nothing which
prevents the CPL-upload-in-register mechanism from being used by a
server to upload scripts to another server. Registrations, in general,
can be used for third party controls. The From field identifies the
party initiating the registration.

-Jonathan R.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

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Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-iptel-trip-01.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Telephony Working Group of the IETF.

     Title          : Telephony Routing over IP (TRIP)
     Author(s) : J. Rosenberg, H. Salama, M. Squire
     Filename  : draft-ietf-iptel-trip-01.txt
     Pages          : 62
     Date      : 21-Jan-00

This document presents the Telephony Routing over IP (TRIP).  TRIP
is a policy driven inter-administrative domain protocol for
advertising the reachability of telephony destinations between
location servers, and for advertising attributes of the routes to
those destinations.  TRIP's operation is independent of any
signaling protocol, hence TRIP can serve as the telephony routing
protocol for any signaling protocol.
The Border Gateway Protocol (BGP-4) is used to distribute routing
information between administrative domains. TRIP is used to
distribute telephony routing information between telephony
administrative domains. The similarity between the two protocols is
obvious, and hence TRIP is modeled after BGP-4.

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Folks,

As you may recall, we issued last call on this during the DC IETF. This
revision incorporates comments received during the meeting, plus some
additional cleanup. As there is no new content, I've sent it to IESG for
consideration as an informational RFC.

Thanks,
Jonathan R.
--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts
directories.
This draft is a work item of the IP Telephony Working Group of the IETF.

     Title          : Call Processing Language Framework and Requirements
     Author(s) : J. Lennox, H. Schulzrinne
     Filename  : draft-ietf-iptel-cpl-framework-02.txt
     Pages          : 25
     Date      : 27-Jan-00

A large number of the services we wish to make possible for Internet
telephony require fairly elaborate combinations of signalling
operations, often in network devices, to complete. We want a simple
and standardized way to create such services to make them easier to
implement and deploy.  This document describes an architectural
framework for such a mechanism, which we call a call processing
language. It also outlines requirements for such a language.

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Mark Foster wrote:
> That at least some forms of Iptel must comply with the non-reliance
requirement in at least some countries suggests that the
> SIP, TRIP, enum, etc., must be flexible enough to allow implementations
that will satisfy these requirements, and still be
> interoperable with those that don't.
>
> In the US and Canada, the key to this was the N-1 trigger placement
policy.  This was simply a guideline on which networks
> should be prepared to dip calls placed to which areas in order to not
force calls to be re-routed at the donor network
> (termination routing).  Key to having flexibility on where triggers are
placed, resulting in NPDB queries, is having a form of
> post-query signaling that makes the query results available to all
downstream networks.

I'm not really sure that the N-1 concept works that well in an IP
environment:

1. If you look at DNS as a similar service to LNP on the IP side, the
originating host does a name to address translation right away. This
happens even if the name thats being translated is "far away". This
avoids triangle routing, as has been discussed.

2. The interconnection of SIP servers and providers within the IP world
is not that rigid. I'm not sure how a SIP proxy would indeed determine
that it is the N-1th server in the chain.

In any case, determination of where the NPDB query is done is something
I don't think is within the scope of iptel to determine. All we need to
figure out is what kind of numbers are distributed in TRIP. Near as I
can tell, since LRNs still refer to the prefix of numbers served by a
switch, doing what we were doing all along works just fine.

>
> The key data elements in ANSI ISUP are: the LNP-query-done indicator (bit
in the FCI); placing a routing number returned
> from the NPDB in the CdPN (LRN or whatever), and moving the original
dialed number to a GAP.  Subsequent call routing is
> done on the routing number, while not loosing the dialed portable
subscriber number.  Given the need for SIP to interoperate
> with ANSI ISUP, there should be some consideration of implementing these
semantics.
>
> If SIP captured these fields, so as to provide a post-dip form of
downstream signaling, and TRIP were designed to build route
> tables based on administratively assigned number ranges (which, by
definition would make calls to routing numbers [LRN]
> routable) , and enum did not require DNS queries to be answered by donor
networks, then the existing regulatory
> requirements for LNP could be met.

First off, SIP has two fields that identify the destination party. The
To field represents the original number that the caller called, and the
request URI represents the address translated at each hop. Thus, the To
field carries the original dialed number, and the request URI would
carrying the routing number. Now, do we need to somehow indicate that
the LNP dip has been done? I'm still unsure about that. I believe
Henning had suggested that the use of a sip URL (as opposed to a tel
URL) in the request URI would effectively be an indicator of such. That
aside, I think there is a possible confusion if one were to assume an
LRN looked like a normal SIP URL:

INVITE sip:1212344 SIP/2.0
To: sip:14081234567

The problem is related to past discussions on the SIP mailing list
regarding overlap dialing. A terminating gateway would look at
sip:1212344, and know how to route it, but might not know whether this
was a dialed number with more digits coming, or an LRN. Does it matter?
Not being an ISUP expert, I'm not sure. If it does matter, something
like user=lrn within the SIP URL would fix that.

But anyway, thats also not a problem for iptel, although I've cc'd the
sip list on this message.

-Jonathan R.

--
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       200 Executive Drive
Chief Scientist                             Suite 120
dynamicsoft                                 West Orange, NJ 07052
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com

---------
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The same individual had previously spewed the sip mailing list with
ancient messages. Complaints to IBM, however, may be in order at this
point...



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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon May 15 17:45:17 2000
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Message-ID: <004b01bfbe1b$c5eb9b90$7f01a8c0@cisco.com>
From: "Paul E. Jones" <paul.jones@ties.itu.ch>
To: <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
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Subject: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
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Folks,

TRIP provides addressing information for SIP and H.323.  The addressing
information may be propogated for individual gateways or for "aggrigation
points".  Along with the address, the protocol is specified.  Currently,
that protocol is specified as "SIP" or "H.323".

I believe that H.323 alone may not be sufficient to convey how to get a call
routed when using H.323.  There are a number of protocols available in the
H.323 series of protocols.  There are three primary protocols that would,
and I propose should, be advertised along with the addressing data.  They
are: H.225.0 Call Signaling, H.225.0 RAS, and H.225.0 Annex G.

Currently, the support in TRIP is assumed be limited to H.225.0 Call
Signaling.  That works well when trying to connect directly to a gateway.
However, the aggrigtion point for H.323 devices or networks may be an H.323
Gatekeeper for a Border Element (as defined in Annex G of H.225.0), and
neither may support H.225.0 Call Signaling.

So, I would like to propose that provisions be added to TRIP to allow
addresses to be advertised along with three different supporting protocols
for H.323:
   H.225.0 Call Signaling
   H.225.0 RAS
   H.225.0 Annex G

The latter two, as I mentioned, are extremely important for build larger
networks where the aggrigation point is not an H.323 call signaling entity.

Best Regards,
Paul




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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon May 15 17:54:16 2000
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From: "Paul E. Jones" <paul.jones@ties.itu.ch>
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Folks,

TRIP provides addressing information for SIP and H.323.  The addressing
information may be propogated for individual gateways or for "aggrigation
points".  Along with the address, the protocol is specified.  Currently,
that protocol is specified as "SIP" or "H.323".

I believe that H.323 alone may not be sufficient to convey how to get a call
routed when using H.323.  There are a number of protocols available in the
H.323 series of protocols.  There are three primary protocols that would,
and I propose should, be advertised along with the addressing data.  They
are: H.225.0 Call Signaling, H.225.0 RAS, and H.225.0 Annex G.

Currently, the support in TRIP is assumed be limited to H.225.0 Call
Signaling.  That works well when trying to connect directly to a gateway.
However, the aggrigtion point for H.323 devices or networks may be an H.323
Gatekeeper for a Border Element (as defined in Annex G of H.225.0), and
neither may support H.225.0 Call Signaling.

So, I would like to propose that provisions be added to TRIP to allow
addresses to be advertised along with three different supporting protocols
for H.323:
   H.225.0 Call Signaling
   H.225.0 RAS
   H.225.0 Annex G

The latter two, as I mentioned, are extremely important for build larger
networks where the aggrigation point is not an H.323 call signaling entity.

Best Regards,
Paul




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Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 15:33:46 -0400
From: "Gregory W. Bond" <bond@research.att.com>
Organization: AT&T Labs - Research, Florham Park, NJ
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Subject: [IPTEL] 2nd CFP: IP Telecom Services Workshop 2000
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[Please accept our apologies for multiple copies of this call.]

-------------  SECOND CALL FOR PAPERS  ---------------

       IP TELECOM SERVICES WORKSHOP 2000 (IPTS 2000)

                    co-located with
             Fall 2000 Voice on the Net (VON)

                     organized by
                  AT&T Labs Research
                      pulver.com

         Cobb Galleria, Atlanta, Georgia, U.S.A
                  September 11, 2000

            submission deadline: June 16, 2000
         http://www.research.att.com/conf/ipts2000/

-----------------------------------------------------------

IPTS 2000 is a new workshop dedicated to the important, emerging field of IP
Telecom Services research.

In contrast to the services available on the PSTN, a new world of telecom
services is possible on an IP-based infrastructure. This world presents new
challenges for service development, deployment and management. This one-day
workshop will serve as a forum for the dissemination of research relating to
these challenges.

The IPTS 2000 Program Committee invites submission of papers on substantial,
original and previously unpublished research in IP telecom services, including,
but not limited to:

- service architectures
  (e.g. AIN, SoftSwitch, JAIN, Parlay, DFC)
- service creation environments
- protocols, standards and interoperability
  (e.g. H.323, SIP, MGCP, Megaco/H.248, etc.)
- service programming languages
- service management - billing, fault tolerance, monitoring
- novel services

We welcome papers describing original research; position papers describing
research interests in the field, work in progress, or future directions of
research; project or system descriptions.


IMPORTANT DATES

June 16, 2000        Submission deadline
July 21, 2000        Notification of acceptance
August 25, 2000      Final version of papers
September 11, 2000   IPTS 2000


PAPER SUBMISSIONS

Papers must describe original, previously unpublished work that has not been
simultaneously submitted for publication elsewhere. They must be written in
English, not exceeding 6 pages including figures, tables and references in 10-12
point font on 8.5x11-inch (US letter) paper. The first page must include an
abstract of up to 200 words, keywords, and email address of the corresponding
author.

All papers must be submitted electronically unless specifically approved by the
Workshop Co-Chairs. Submissions in PostScript or PDF format should be sent to
mailto:ipts2000@research.att.com.

Authors of accepted papers are expected to present their contribution at the
workshop.  The proceedings will be published in hardcopy and on the web.


REVIEW PROCEDURE

All submissions will be subject to academic peer review by the IPTS 2000 Program
Committee under the chairmanship of the Workshop Co-Chairs. Each paper will
receive three written reviews, and reviews will be returned to the authors.  The
Workshop Co-Chairs have final authority over the review process and all
decisions relating to acceptance of papers. Review criteria include originality
of ideas, technical soundness, significance of results, and quality of
presentation.


CONFERENCE VENUE AND RELATED EVENTS

IPTS 2000 will be held on September 11, 2000 in Atlanta, Georgia. The workshop
will be co-located with Fall 2000 Voice on the Net (VON).  Details about Fall
2000 VON can be found at http://pulver.com.

IPTS 2000 is organized by AT&T Labs Research (http://www.research.att.com) and
pulver.com (http://pulver.com).


WORKSHOP CO-CHAIRS

Greg Bond, AT&T Labs Research
Eric Cheung, AT&T Labs Research

PROGRAM COMMITTEE

Mauricio Arango, Sun Microsystems Labs
Joanne Atlee, University of Waterloo
Ralph Blumenthal, Daewoo Telecom
Scott Hoffpauir, BroadSoft
Evan Magill, University of Strathclyde
Peter Mataga, dynamicsoft
Bernie Pagurek, Carleton University
Jonathan Rosenberg, dynamicsoft
Henning Schulzrinne, Columbia University
Greg Utas, Nortel Networks
Pamela Zave, AT&T Labs Research


FURTHER GENERAL INFORMATION

http://www.research.att.com/conf/ipts2000



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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon May 15 18:09:56 2000
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From: magedanz@ikv.de
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        <spirits@lists.bell-labs.com>, <pint@lists.bell-labs.com>,
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Ladies and Gentlemen!

Sorry in case you receive multiple copies of this emmail,
which means your are very active ;-)


Computer Networks Journal plans to publish in February 2001 a special
issue on "Voice / Data Integration - A Snapshot of Intelligent Network
and Interent Convergence".

Guest editors: T. Magedanz (IKV++) and M. Smirnov (GMD FOKUS)

Deadline for submission is June 5th, 2000!!!

Maybe a good candidate for disseminating your results!

For more infos look at: http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/IN-Internet/

Best regards,
Thomas Magedanz (magedanz@ikv.de)

IKV++ GmbH, Bernburger Str. 24-25, D-10963 Berlin, Germany





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From: "Paul E. Jones" <paul.jones@ties.itu.ch>
To: <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
Date: Mon, 15 May 2000 07:06:40 -0400
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Subject: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
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Folks,

TRIP provides addressing information for SIP and H.323.  The addressing
information may be propagated for individual gateways or for "aggregation
points".  Along with the address, the protocol is specified.  Currently,
that protocol is specified as "SIP" or "H.323".

I believe that H.323 alone may not be sufficient to convey how to get a call
routed when using H.323.  There are a number of protocols available in the
H.323 series of protocols.  There are three primary protocols that would,
and I propose should, be advertised along with the addressing data.  They
are: H.225.0 Call Signaling, H.225.0 RAS, and H.225.0 Annex G.

Currently, the support in TRIP is assumed be limited to H.225.0 Call
Signaling.  That works well when trying to connect directly to a gateway.
However, the aggregation point for H.323 devices or networks may be an H.323
Gatekeeper for a Border Element (as defined in Annex G of H.225.0), and
neither may support H.225.0 Call Signaling.

So, I would like to propose that provisions be added to TRIP to allow
addresses to be advertised along with three different supporting protocols
for H.323:
   H.225.0 Call Signaling
   H.225.0 RAS
   H.225.0 Annex G

The latter two, as I mentioned, are extremely important for build larger
networks where the aggregation point is not an H.323 call signaling entity.

Best Regards,
Paul




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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
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This issue has come up a few times now, and we have had various H.323
experts come forward to provide input. Regarding RAS, we heard from a
few people that there was no need to handle RAS differently. My
understanding, which is admittedly limited, is that most RAS messages
weren't even sent between zones.

Also, regarding your comments on Annex G, the point of TRIP is to figure
out where to route protocol messages when they arrive at a proxy or
gatekeeper. It is not true that TRIP only works when you try to connect
directly to a gateway. The whole point of the protocol is that you pass
through aggregation devices.  I was not aware that gatekeepers and
border elements did not need to speak H.225.0. But, in these cases, why
would they care about routing, since they won't receive call signaling?

Can you give a concrete example where we need to advertise different
routes for H.225.0, RAS, and/or Annex G?

Thanks,
Jonathan R.

"Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> 
> Folks,
> 
> TRIP provides addressing information for SIP and H.323.  The addressing
> information may be propogated for individual gateways or for "aggrigation
> points".  Along with the address, the protocol is specified.  Currently,
> that protocol is specified as "SIP" or "H.323".
> 
> I believe that H.323 alone may not be sufficient to convey how to get a call
> routed when using H.323.  There are a number of protocols available in the
> H.323 series of protocols.  There are three primary protocols that would,
> and I propose should, be advertised along with the addressing data.  They
> are: H.225.0 Call Signaling, H.225.0 RAS, and H.225.0 Annex G.
> 
> Currently, the support in TRIP is assumed be limited to H.225.0 Call
> Signaling.  That works well when trying to connect directly to a gateway.
> However, the aggrigtion point for H.323 devices or networks may be an H.323
> Gatekeeper for a Border Element (as defined in Annex G of H.225.0), and
> neither may support H.225.0 Call Signaling.
> 
> So, I would like to propose that provisions be added to TRIP to allow
> addresses to be advertised along with three different supporting protocols
> for H.323:
>    H.225.0 Call Signaling
>    H.225.0 RAS
>    H.225.0 Annex G
> 
> The latter two, as I mentioned, are extremely important for build larger
> networks where the aggrigation point is not an H.323 call signaling entity.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Paul
> 
> _______________________________________________
> IPTEL mailing list
> IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com



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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed May 17 16:07:15 2000
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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] CPL: Switch Matching Types
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Kenny Hom wrote:
> 
> The <address-switch> and <string-switch> seem limited with their types
> of matching.  Can regular expressions be used in the match string?

No. We found that its too complex to be worth it. The address-switch has
parameters that allow you to specify matches on specific fields, which
is mostly what you want.

> 
> Should "begins with" & "ends with" be added (useful for user, display, &
> possibly host)?

There is a "subdomain-of" tag in the address field which provides this
function for hostnames and telephone numbers. I really don't see it
being useful for the display name of username, as these are too freeform
to usefully have matches like that.

> 
> Also, what about adding the negatives (i.e. is not, not subdomain-of, &
> does not contain)?

<otherwise>

> 
> For address-switch matching on the port subfield, should we add greater
> and less?
> 

Why? 

-Jonathan R.

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed May 17 19:48:54 2000
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        lennox@ober.cs.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] CPL: Switch Matching Types
References: <CA2568D9.0041C6A8.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com> <39175BBC.4F24A7E9@vovida.com> <39220AEE.B43322B6@dynamicsoft.com>
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Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:
> 
> Kenny Hom wrote:
> >
> > The <address-switch> and <string-switch> seem limited with their types
> > of matching.  Can regular expressions be used in the match string?
> 
> No. We found that its too complex to be worth it. The address-switch has
> parameters that allow you to specify matches on specific fields, which
> is mostly what you want.

Another reason is that CPL scripts are meant to be written by users and
presented by (graphical) user interfaces. Regular expressions may be
natural for a CS major, but are hard to get right and hard to present in
a fashion understandable to non-technical users. (We are hoping for a
market of pre-written CPL templates, just like HTML templates.) It is
also unlikely that you would want to, say, match on all callers whose
name has the letter R as its third letter or other such things where
regular expressions are useful.

-- 
Henning Schulzrinne   http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~hgs



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To: "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
Cc: <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
Date: Thu, 18 May 2000 20:11:06 -0400
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Jonathan,

Sorry for the late response.  I'm in Japan this week on business and have
had limited access to my e-mail.

When building scalable networks, elements on the edge may not desire to take
part in call signaling.  Many people have the view that a routing Gatekeeper
is not appropriate for the edge of the network.  However, that Gatekeeper
(and/or Border Element) may be perfectly suitable for accepting LRQ or
AccessRequest messages.  Those devices, in that case, would return the
address of either a Gateway, Gatekeeper, or other entity that can handle the
call.

However, as TRIP is currently defined, it forces the H.323 entity that is
acting as the aggregation point to route call signaling.  This is very
expensive, in comparison to merely handling RAS or Annex G messages for the
purposes of routing the caller.  In addition, since an H.323 call may
require 2 sockets, a total of 4 sockets may be required by the aggregation
point to route a single call.  While the socket issue can resolved in
various ways, the aggregation point is unnecessarily forced to maintain call
state and to route calls to completion.

If the aggregation point were allowed to advertise RAS or H.225.0 Annex G as
a protocol, the aggregation point (being a GK or a Border Element) could
provide addressing data to the caller without being forced to route the call
signaling.  This has obvious advantages with respect to scalability and
flexibility within H.323 networks.

Best Regards
Paul E. Jones
Editor, H.323

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
To: "Paul E. Jones" <paul.jones@ties.itu.ch>
Cc: <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:18 PM
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323


> This issue has come up a few times now, and we have had various H.323
> experts come forward to provide input. Regarding RAS, we heard from a
> few people that there was no need to handle RAS differently. My
> understanding, which is admittedly limited, is that most RAS messages
> weren't even sent between zones.
>
> Also, regarding your comments on Annex G, the point of TRIP is to figure
> out where to route protocol messages when they arrive at a proxy or
> gatekeeper. It is not true that TRIP only works when you try to connect
> directly to a gateway. The whole point of the protocol is that you pass
> through aggregation devices.  I was not aware that gatekeepers and
> border elements did not need to speak H.225.0. But, in these cases, why
> would they care about routing, since they won't receive call signaling?
>
> Can you give a concrete example where we need to advertise different
> routes for H.225.0, RAS, and/or Annex G?
>
> Thanks,
> Jonathan R.
>
> "Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> >
> > Folks,
> >
> > TRIP provides addressing information for SIP and H.323.  The addressing
> > information may be propogated for individual gateways or for
"aggrigation
> > points".  Along with the address, the protocol is specified.  Currently,
> > that protocol is specified as "SIP" or "H.323".
> >
> > I believe that H.323 alone may not be sufficient to convey how to get a
call
> > routed when using H.323.  There are a number of protocols available in
the
> > H.323 series of protocols.  There are three primary protocols that
would,
> > and I propose should, be advertised along with the addressing data.
They
> > are: H.225.0 Call Signaling, H.225.0 RAS, and H.225.0 Annex G.
> >
> > Currently, the support in TRIP is assumed be limited to H.225.0 Call
> > Signaling.  That works well when trying to connect directly to a
gateway.
> > However, the aggrigtion point for H.323 devices or networks may be an
H.323
> > Gatekeeper for a Border Element (as defined in Annex G of H.225.0), and
> > neither may support H.225.0 Call Signaling.
> >
> > So, I would like to propose that provisions be added to TRIP to allow
> > addresses to be advertised along with three different supporting
protocols
> > for H.323:
> >    H.225.0 Call Signaling
> >    H.225.0 RAS
> >    H.225.0 Annex G
> >
> > The latter two, as I mentioned, are extremely important for build larger
> > networks where the aggrigation point is not an H.323 call signaling
entity.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> > Paul
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > IPTEL mailing list
> > IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel
>
> --
> Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
> Chief Scientist                             First Floor
> dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
> jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> http://www.dynamicsoft.com
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPTEL mailing list
> IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel
>




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Date: Fri, 19 May 2000 01:04:09 -0700
From: "Hussein F. Salama" <hsalama@cisco.com>
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        iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
References: <CA2568D9.00419340.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com> <004b01bfbe1b$c5eb9b90$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <39220F8C.5650A73B@dynamicsoft.com> <003101bfc126$c77784c0$7f01a8c0@cisco.com>
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"Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> Sorry for the late response.  I'm in Japan this week on business and have
> had limited access to my e-mail.
> 
> When building scalable networks, elements on the edge may not desire to take
> part in call signaling.  Many people have the view that a routing Gatekeeper
> is not appropriate for the edge of the network.  However, that Gatekeeper
> (and/or Border Element) may be perfectly suitable for accepting LRQ or
> AccessRequest messages.  Those devices, in that case, would return the
> address of either a Gateway, Gatekeeper, or other entity that can handle the
> call.
> 
> However, as TRIP is currently defined, it forces the H.323 entity that is
> acting as the aggregation point to route call signaling.  This is very
> expensive, in comparison to merely handling RAS or Annex G messages for the
> purposes of routing the caller.  In addition, since an H.323 call may
> require 2 sockets, a total of 4 sockets may be required by the aggregation
> point to route a single call.  While the socket issue can resolved in
> various ways, the aggregation point is unnecessarily forced to maintain call
> state and to route calls to completion.
> 
> If the aggregation point were allowed to advertise RAS or H.225.0 Annex G as
> a protocol, the aggregation point (being a GK or a Border Element) could
> provide addressing data to the caller without being forced to route the call
> signaling.  This has obvious advantages with respect to scalability and
> flexibility within H.323 networks.

I agree with Paul. There is no reason to restrict the next hop
application protocol to be a signaling protocol, SIP or Q.931. With RAS
and Annex G as next hop application protocols, the scalability of H.323
aggregation points will be enhanced significantly. The only effect on
call routing is that the route look up operation becomes recursive.
First the Local TRIP LS is queried for the next hop domain, then the
Annex G Border Element, or the RAS Gatekeeper, of the next hop domain is
queried for the appropriate signaling server in that domain. Recursive
lookups are not uncommon in IP routing and I don't see why we shouldn't
allow them in call routing.

Hussein
 

> 
> Best Regards
> Paul E. Jones
> Editor, H.323
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
> To: "Paul E. Jones" <paul.jones@ties.itu.ch>
> Cc: <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2000 11:18 PM
> Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
> 
> > This issue has come up a few times now, and we have had various H.323
> > experts come forward to provide input. Regarding RAS, we heard from a
> > few people that there was no need to handle RAS differently. My
> > understanding, which is admittedly limited, is that most RAS messages
> > weren't even sent between zones.
> >
> > Also, regarding your comments on Annex G, the point of TRIP is to figure
> > out where to route protocol messages when they arrive at a proxy or
> > gatekeeper. It is not true that TRIP only works when you try to connect
> > directly to a gateway. The whole point of the protocol is that you pass
> > through aggregation devices.  I was not aware that gatekeepers and
> > border elements did not need to speak H.225.0. But, in these cases, why
> > would they care about routing, since they won't receive call signaling?
> >
> > Can you give a concrete example where we need to advertise different
> > routes for H.225.0, RAS, and/or Annex G?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Jonathan R.
> >
> > "Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> > >
> > > Folks,
> > >
> > > TRIP provides addressing information for SIP and H.323.  The addressing
> > > information may be propogated for individual gateways or for
> "aggrigation
> > > points".  Along with the address, the protocol is specified.  Currently,
> > > that protocol is specified as "SIP" or "H.323".
> > >
> > > I believe that H.323 alone may not be sufficient to convey how to get a
> call
> > > routed when using H.323.  There are a number of protocols available in
> the
> > > H.323 series of protocols.  There are three primary protocols that
> would,
> > > and I propose should, be advertised along with the addressing data.
> They
> > > are: H.225.0 Call Signaling, H.225.0 RAS, and H.225.0 Annex G.
> > >
> > > Currently, the support in TRIP is assumed be limited to H.225.0 Call
> > > Signaling.  That works well when trying to connect directly to a
> gateway.
> > > However, the aggrigtion point for H.323 devices or networks may be an
> H.323
> > > Gatekeeper for a Border Element (as defined in Annex G of H.225.0), and
> > > neither may support H.225.0 Call Signaling.
> > >
> > > So, I would like to propose that provisions be added to TRIP to allow
> > > addresses to be advertised along with three different supporting
> protocols
> > > for H.323:
> > >    H.225.0 Call Signaling
> > >    H.225.0 RAS
> > >    H.225.0 Annex G
> > >
> > > The latter two, as I mentioned, are extremely important for build larger
> > > networks where the aggrigation point is not an H.323 call signaling
> entity.
> > >
> > > Best Regards,
> > > Paul
> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > IPTEL mailing list
> > > IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> > > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel
> >
> > --
> > Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
> > Chief Scientist                             First Floor
> > dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
> > jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> > http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> > http://www.dynamicsoft.com
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > IPTEL mailing list
> > IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> > http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel
> >
> 
> _______________________________________________
> IPTEL mailing list
> IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel

-- 
Hussein F. Salama
Cisco Systems
Mail Stop SJC6/3, 170 W. Tasman Drive, San Jose, CA 95134
Voice: +1 (408) 527-7147, Fax: +1 (408) 527-1714



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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
References: <CA2568D9.00419340.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com> <004b01bfbe1b$c5eb9b90$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <39220F8C.5650A73B@dynamicsoft.com> <003101bfc126$c77784c0$7f01a8c0@cisco.com>
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"Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> Sorry for the late response.  I'm in Japan this week on business and have
> had limited access to my e-mail.
> 
> When building scalable networks, elements on the edge may not desire to take
> part in call signaling.  Many people have the view that a routing Gatekeeper
> is not appropriate for the edge of the network.  However, that Gatekeeper
> (and/or Border Element) may be perfectly suitable for accepting LRQ or
> AccessRequest messages.  Those devices, in that case, would return the
> address of either a Gateway, Gatekeeper, or other entity that can handle the
> call.

So if I understand correctly, what you want is a way to route LRQ
messages, just as you would route signaling messages, so that the LRQ
travels to the gatekeeper closest to the detination gateway, and that
the response to the LRQ contains the address of the gateway, and then
the originating gateway does Q.931 signaling directly to the remote
gateway?

Or, is it LRQ between terminal/GW and the gatekeeper, and then an Annex
G equivalent query between gateekeepers?

-Jonathan R.
-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com



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From: "Paul E. Jones" <paul.jones@ties.itu.ch>
To: "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
Cc: <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
References: <CA2568D9.00419340.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com> <004b01bfbe1b$c5eb9b90$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <39220F8C.5650A73B@dynamicsoft.com> <003101bfc126$c77784c0$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <3925AE80.32A0E9A0@dynamicsoft.com>
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
Date: Mon, 22 May 2000 00:12:46 -0400
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Jonathan,

Again, I have to apologize for the delayed response.  I'm finding it very
hard to keep up with e-mail while traveling in Asia.

What I was suggesting is along the lines of your first question.  It is
desirable in H.323 networks not to force the aggregation point to perform
call routing.  It may be that it can resolve addresses, but it may not wish
to take part in any routing of the call.  The goal is to allow the
aggregation points or other entities within the network to respond to
changing traffic conditions quickly.  The aggregation point or other entity
could then perform load balancing more precisely, re-route traffic when a
device failure occurs, etc.

Routing call signaling at the aggregation points is obviously one way to
handle these issues, but such routing is not desirable in many
circumstances.  The better solution for H.323 in many cases would be to
allow the aggregation point to dynamically resolve the address without
actually performing any call signaling.  For this, we need to add LRQ and
Annex G/H.225.0 support to TRIP.

Paul

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jonathan Rosenberg" <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
To: "Paul E. Jones" <paul.jones@ties.itu.ch>
Cc: <iptel@lists.research.bell-labs.com>
Sent: Friday, May 19, 2000 5:13 PM
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323


>
>
> "Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> >
> > Jonathan,
> >
> > Sorry for the late response.  I'm in Japan this week on business and
have
> > had limited access to my e-mail.
> >
> > When building scalable networks, elements on the edge may not desire to
take
> > part in call signaling.  Many people have the view that a routing
Gatekeeper
> > is not appropriate for the edge of the network.  However, that
Gatekeeper
> > (and/or Border Element) may be perfectly suitable for accepting LRQ or
> > AccessRequest messages.  Those devices, in that case, would return the
> > address of either a Gateway, Gatekeeper, or other entity that can handle
the
> > call.
>
> So if I understand correctly, what you want is a way to route LRQ
> messages, just as you would route signaling messages, so that the LRQ
> travels to the gatekeeper closest to the detination gateway, and that
> the response to the LRQ contains the address of the gateway, and then
> the originating gateway does Q.931 signaling directly to the remote
> gateway?
>
> Or, is it LRQ between terminal/GW and the gatekeeper, and then an Annex
> G equivalent query between gateekeepers?
>
> -Jonathan R.
> --
> Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
> Chief Scientist                             First Floor
> dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
> jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
> http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
> http://www.dynamicsoft.com
>




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Date: Wed, 24 May 2000 17:02:53 -0400
From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
References: <CA2568D9.00419340.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com> <004b01bfbe1b$c5eb9b90$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <39220F8C.5650A73B@dynamicsoft.com> <003101bfc126$c77784c0$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <3925AE80.32A0E9A0@dynamicsoft.com> <008101bfc3a3$ffb26470$8fb546ab@cisco.com>
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"Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> Again, I have to apologize for the delayed response.  I'm finding it very
> hard to keep up with e-mail while traveling in Asia.
> 
> What I was suggesting is along the lines of your first question.  It is
> desirable in H.323 networks not to force the aggregation point to perform
> call routing.  It may be that it can resolve addresses, but it may not wish
> to take part in any routing of the call.  The goal is to allow the
> aggregation points or other entities within the network to respond to
> changing traffic conditions quickly.  The aggregation point or other entity
> could then perform load balancing more precisely, re-route traffic when a
> device failure occurs, etc.
> 
> Routing call signaling at the aggregation points is obviously one way to
> handle these issues, but such routing is not desirable in many
> circumstances.  The better solution for H.323 in many cases would be to
> allow the aggregation point to dynamically resolve the address without
> actually performing any call signaling.  For this, we need to add LRQ and
> Annex G/H.225.0 support to TRIP.

OK. Is there a need for one codepoint for H.225.0, and another for Annex
G + RAS? Or do we need three, one for each?

Are there any issues with consistency of the databases between the
H.225.0 and the AnnexG/RAS routing tables? I understand your desire to
separate the two, but the fundamental routing tables used in the
underlying system should be the same. Its just an issue of accessing
them. However, using a separate protocol identifier will make it
possible for the two databases to be different.

-Jonathan R.
-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com



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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
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Jonathan,

> OK. Is there a need for one codepoint for H.225.0, and another for Annex
> G + RAS? Or do we need three, one for each?
>
> Are there any issues with consistency of the databases between the
> H.225.0 and the AnnexG/RAS routing tables? I understand your desire to
> separate the two, but the fundamental routing tables used in the
> underlying system should be the same. Its just an issue of accessing
> them. However, using a separate protocol identifier will make it
> possible for the two databases to be different.

We would have to have a codepoint for each protocol: H.225.0 RAS and H.225.0
Annex G.  They are different protocols and an indicator would necessarily
have to be supplied to allow the calling or resolving entity to know how to
access the remote server.  Also, it is entirely possible that a network may
have support for one protocol, but not the other.  Moreover, consistency is
not an issue.  In most cases (or at least I would recommend that) a network
will adopt one or other of the two protocols for address resolution to
external entities and would have little or no support for the other
protocol.  Data consistency is an issue, of course, but that should be left
to the service provider and equipment manufacturer.  We just want to supply
the necessary tools.

Best Regards,
Paul





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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Using TRIP with H.323
References: <CA2568D9.00419340.00@d73mta05.au.ibm.com> <004b01bfbe1b$c5eb9b90$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <39220F8C.5650A73B@dynamicsoft.com> <003101bfc126$c77784c0$7f01a8c0@cisco.com> <3925AE80.32A0E9A0@dynamicsoft.com> <008101bfc3a3$ffb26470$8fb546ab@cisco.com> <392C437D.31E118F2@dynamicsoft.com> <007e01bfc6e2$2f164380$0401a8c0@mds.local>
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So - here is peoples last chance to object (as they have during the
meetings). Unless I hear otherwise, we will add codepoints to TRIP for
H.225.0 signaling, RAS, and Annex G.

-Jonathan R.

"Paul E. Jones" wrote:
> 
> Jonathan,
> 
> > OK. Is there a need for one codepoint for H.225.0, and another for Annex
> > G + RAS? Or do we need three, one for each?
> >
> > Are there any issues with consistency of the databases between the
> > H.225.0 and the AnnexG/RAS routing tables? I understand your desire to
> > separate the two, but the fundamental routing tables used in the
> > underlying system should be the same. Its just an issue of accessing
> > them. However, using a separate protocol identifier will make it
> > possible for the two databases to be different.
> 
> We would have to have a codepoint for each protocol: H.225.0 RAS and H.225.0
> Annex G.  They are different protocols and an indicator would necessarily
> have to be supplied to allow the calling or resolving entity to know how to
> access the remote server.  Also, it is entirely possible that a network may
> have support for one protocol, but not the other.  Moreover, consistency is
> not an issue.  In most cases (or at least I would recommend that) a network
> will adopt one or other of the two protocols for address resolution to
> external entities and would have little or no support for the other
> protocol.  Data consistency is an issue, of course, but that should be left
> to the service provider and equipment manufacturer.  We just want to supply
> the necessary tools.
> 
> Best Regards,
> Paul

-- 
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (732) 741-4778
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (732) 741-7244
http://www.dynamicsoft.com



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