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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 13:21:12 +0100

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Hi!

I am not an expert in IP Telephony. But I have a wide technical background,
and have followed this area for some time. 

When it comes to the fundamental difference between Packet Switched and Line
Switched networks, will any standards developed by the IPTEL/IETF take these
matters into account? I am especially thinking of factors like being able to
cope with loss of packets, priority over other traffic etc. In other words:
How can we assure good quality when not having a Line Switched network?

I am sorry if these questions are a bit to "wide" for this fora. I have had
a look in the archives, but haven't found much on this. Maybe someone here
can point me in the right direction for more information?

Thank you very much,

Jostein Trones


------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A56E.C48A2FB0
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charset=3Diso-8859-1">
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5.5.2650.12">
<TITLE>Packet Switched vs Line Switched</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Hi!</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I am not an expert in IP Telephony. =
But I have a wide technical background, and have followed this area for =
some time. </FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">When it comes to the fundamental =
difference between Packet Switched and Line Switched networks, will any =
standards developed by the IPTEL/IETF take these matters into account? =
I am especially thinking of factors like being able to cope with loss =
of packets, priority over other traffic etc. In other words: How can we =
assure good quality when not having a Line Switched network?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">I am sorry if these questions are a =
bit to &quot;wide&quot; for this fora. I have had a look in the =
archives, but haven't found much on this. Maybe someone here can point =
me in the right direction for more information?</FONT></P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thank you very much,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Jostein Trones</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
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------_=_NextPart_001_01C0A56E.C48A2FB0--

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Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 18:28:07 -0500 (EST)

                           Call for Participation

                         2nd IP Telephony Workshop
	  
            April 2-3, 2001 - Columbia University, New York City
                 http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/iptel2001/


Objectives
---------- 
Internet telephony is rapidly evolving from research to design
and deployment. The IP Telephony Workshop aims at bringing together 
researchers, developers, vendors and service providers active in this 
area and stimulate discussion on innovation, research, implementation, 
deployment experiences and future directions.

Scope & Topics 
--------------
Original technical articles related to IP telephony will be presented.
We received forty papers addressing QoS research (12), service creation 
and call control (8), firewall/NAT traversal issues (3), conferencing 
(3), IP interworking with PSTN and wireless (3), QoS testing and 
measurement (2), instant messaging and presence (2), security (1), 
administration mechanisms (1), performance analysis (1), etc. Twenty
submissions will be accepted, presented and published in the
proceedings.

Important Dates
--------------- 
Program published 		March 15th,    2001
Registration deadline		March 23rd,    2001
Workshop			April 2nd-3rd, 2001

iptel2001 Organizing Committee 
------------------------------
Program Chair         
 H. Schulzrinne       Columbia University 
Program Committee 
 M. Arango            Sun Microsystems
 F. Baker             Cisco
 W. Bauerfeld         T-Nova
 G. Bond              AT&T Research
 S. Bradner           Harvard University
 G. Carle             GMD FOKUS
 J. Crowcroft         UCL
 C. Huitema           Microsoft
 G. S. Kuo            National Central University, Taiwan
 J. Kuthan            GMD Fokus
 T. Magedanz          IKV++ GmbH
 W. Marshall          AT&T Research
 D. Medhi             University of Missouri-Kansas City
 D. Oran              Cisco
 J. Ott               University of Bremen
 T. La Porta          Bell Labs
 B. Rosen             Marconi
 J. Rosenberg         dynamicsoft
 H. Sinnreich         MCI WorldCom
 R. Steinmetz         Technical University of Darmstadt
 H. Stüttgen          NEC CCRLE
 W. Wimmreuter        Siemens
 L. Wolf              University of Karlsruhe
 A. Wolisz            Technical University of Berlin
 M. Zitterbart        Technical University of Braunschweig 

Contact Address
---------------
Please send all your inquiries regarding iptel2001 to 

               iptel2001@egroups.com.

Registration
------------
The registration is now open. Participants are asked to register 
in advance at
		http://www.fokus.gmd.de/iptel2001/iptel2001/reg/

The registration deadline is March 23rd, 2001. See our registration 
website for more details.


Accommodation
-------------

New York city offers many hotels in different price ranges. Our
accommodation web page contains pointers to some nearby hotels, however,
attendees are responsible for booking their own accommodation.

	http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/iptel2001/accommodation/


Exhibition
----------
To demonstrate how research and development become reality there will 
be an exhibition co-located with the workshop. A limited number of teams 
from industry as well as from academia and research will be given space to 
present their software and hardware, both products and prototypes. If you 
are interested in presenting your products or prototypes at iptel2001, 
please send an e-mail to 

		iptel2001@egroups.com. 

Please include a short description of what you plan to display and special 
requirements if you have any. We will provide tables, power strips, 
Ethernet/802.11b wireless Internet connectivity (no firewall/NAT) and
space for your booth if needed. 

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon Mar  5 19:20:07 2001
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To: Jostein Trones <jtr@nfis.no>
From: president@access.net.id
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched
Cc: "'iptel@lists.bell-labs.com'" <iptel@lists.bell-labs.com>
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Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 06:55:09 +0700

Folks,
In Indonesia, My company MAHATEL, has specific  license from Gov:
Fixed Network Telecom Operator Based On Packet Switched System

IP & F/R Switches incl. DataCom Network must be developed.
I am sure that it has good carrier quality voice grade as well.
Regards, -teddy

At 01:21 PM 3/5/01 +0100, Jostein Trones wrote:
<...>
In other words: How
>can we assure good quality when not having a Line Switched network?  "" for
>this fora. I have had a look in the archives, but haven't found much on
>this. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction for more
>information?  Thank you very much,   Jostein Trones    



_______________________________________________
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue Mar  6 09:36:07 2001
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From: "Alan Clark" <alan@telchemy.com>
To: "'Jostein Trones'" <jtr@nfis.no>
Cc: <iptel@lists.bell-labs.com>
Subject: RE: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched QoS
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There has been some work in ETSI TIPHON WG5 (www.etsi.org) and ANSI TIA TR41
in this area.  This encompasses both design guidelines for VoIP networks and
methods for real time monitoring of call quality.  I can provide more
details if you are interested.

Alan Clark

-----Original Message-----
From: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com
[mailto:iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of
president@access.net.id
Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 6:55 PM
To: Jostein Trones
Cc: 'iptel@lists.bell-labs.com'
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched


Folks,
In Indonesia, My company MAHATEL, has specific  license from Gov:
Fixed Network Telecom Operator Based On Packet Switched System

IP & F/R Switches incl. DataCom Network must be developed.
I am sure that it has good carrier quality voice grade as well.
Regards, -teddy

At 01:21 PM 3/5/01 +0100, Jostein Trones wrote:
<...>
In other words: How
>can we assure good quality when not having a Line Switched network?  "" for
>this fora. I have had a look in the archives, but haven't found much on
>this. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction for more
>information?  Thank you very much,   Jostein Trones



_______________________________________________
IPTEL mailing list
IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel


_______________________________________________
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From: Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>
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Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 20:33:08 -0500

Folks,

The deadline for posting the agendas for IETF 50 is approaching. If you want
a slot at the iptel meeting, and haven't yet told me, please do so.

I'll be sending out a proposed agenda shortly.

Also, an update on CPL. CPL is currently blocked within IESG pending the
resolution of an issue with our use of iCalendar. The IESG is concerned that
the use of a subset will hurt interoperability. Specifically, a calendaring
tool that is fully compliant to rfc2445 will not be able to push its
recurrence rules for a meeting into a CPL. Doing this was a key reason we
chose iCalendar to begin with.

So, to resolve this, a few of us have started discussions on the calsch list
regarding our concerns with a complete implementation (the largest one being
the O(1) compute time requirement). Many calsch members were very
sympathetic to our concerns and issues, and list discussion was good. There
will be further discussion on the subject during the calsch meeting at IETF
50. So, if you would like to give some input on this subject, please come to
the calsch meeting. I don't think we will be discussing this during iptel,
but I'll advise if that changes.

Also, I suspect we will not need our full 2.5 hour slot. So, I have informed
the secretariat that it would be OK to move us to a one hour slot. If this
happens, I will advise the list immediately, as this will likely result in a
change in the day/time of the group meeting.

Thanks,
Jonathan R.

---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
 

_______________________________________________
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue Mar  6 21:15:06 2001
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From: Jean-Francois Mule <jfmule@clarent.com>
Reply-To: Jean-Francois Mule <jfmule@clarent.com>
To: alan@telchemy.com, "'Jostein Trones'" <jtr@nfis.no>
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Subject: RE: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched QoS
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with or without the IPR claims?  just curious...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of Alan Clark
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 6:33 AM
> To: 'Jostein Trones'
> Cc: iptel@lists.bell-labs.com
> Subject: RE: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched QoS
>
>
>
> There has been some work in ETSI TIPHON WG5 (www.etsi.org)
> and ANSI TIA TR41
> in this area.  This encompasses both design guidelines for
> VoIP networks and
> methods for real time monitoring of call quality.  I can provide more
> details if you are interested.
>
> Alan Clark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of
> president@access.net.id
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 6:55 PM
> To: Jostein Trones
> Cc: 'iptel@lists.bell-labs.com'
> Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched
>
>
> Folks,
> In Indonesia, My company MAHATEL, has specific  license from Gov:
> Fixed Network Telecom Operator Based On Packet Switched System
>
> IP & F/R Switches incl. DataCom Network must be developed.
> I am sure that it has good carrier quality voice grade as well.
> Regards, -teddy
>
> At 01:21 PM 3/5/01 +0100, Jostein Trones wrote:
> <...>
> In other words: How
> >can we assure good quality when not having a Line Switched
> network?  "" for
> >this fora. I have had a look in the archives, but haven't
> found much on
> >this. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction for more
> >information?  Thank you very much,   Jostein Trones
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPTEL mailing list
> IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPTEL mailing list
> IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel

_______________________________________________
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed Mar  7 09:30:07 2001
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To clarify Jean-Francois' reference - as is normal practice we disclosed to
both ETSI and TIA that we have patent applications related to real-time QoS
monitoring of VoIP, and made the statements required by these organizations
(see their respective web sites).  I'm sure that he is aware that PSQM, PESQ
and most of the voice and image coding algorithms are also patented - in
some cases by multiple companies.

- Alan




-----Original Message-----
From: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com
[mailto:iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of Jean-Francois Mule
Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 9:13 PM
To: alan@telchemy.com; 'Jostein Trones'
Cc: iptel@lists.bell-labs.com
Subject: RE: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched QoS


with or without the IPR claims?  just curious...

> -----Original Message-----
> From: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of Alan Clark
> Sent: Tuesday, March 06, 2001 6:33 AM
> To: 'Jostein Trones'
> Cc: iptel@lists.bell-labs.com
> Subject: RE: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched QoS
>
>
>
> There has been some work in ETSI TIPHON WG5 (www.etsi.org)
> and ANSI TIA TR41
> in this area.  This encompasses both design guidelines for
> VoIP networks and
> methods for real time monitoring of call quality.  I can provide more
> details if you are interested.
>
> Alan Clark
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com
> [mailto:iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of
> president@access.net.id
> Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 6:55 PM
> To: Jostein Trones
> Cc: 'iptel@lists.bell-labs.com'
> Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Packet Switched vs Line Switched
>
>
> Folks,
> In Indonesia, My company MAHATEL, has specific  license from Gov:
> Fixed Network Telecom Operator Based On Packet Switched System
>
> IP & F/R Switches incl. DataCom Network must be developed.
> I am sure that it has good carrier quality voice grade as well.
> Regards, -teddy
>
> At 01:21 PM 3/5/01 +0100, Jostein Trones wrote:
> <...>
> In other words: How
> >can we assure good quality when not having a Line Switched
> network?  "" for
> >this fora. I have had a look in the archives, but haven't
> found much on
> >this. Maybe someone here can point me in the right direction for more
> >information?  Thank you very much,   Jostein Trones
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPTEL mailing list
> IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> IPTEL mailing list
> IPTEL@lists.bell-labs.com
> http://lists.bell-labs.com/mailman/listinfo/iptel

_______________________________________________
IPTEL mailing list
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon Mar 12 02:16:05 2001
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Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 02:17:29 -0500

Folks,

We are officially on the calsch agenda for discussing CPL during IETF 50.
Please feel free to attend the calsch discussions if you are interested in
contributing to these discussions.

Thanks,
Jonathan R.

---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bob Mahoney [mailto:bobmah@mit.edu]
Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2001 7:16 AM
To: agenda@ietf.org
Cc: ietf-calendar@imc.org
Subject: CALSCH Agenda for IETF 50



1. Agenda Tweaks		-Bob Mahoney
	The usual bashing

2. IPTEL/CALSCH issues	-John Stracke
	Overview of major issues
	(Will also be covered in WG dinners and such)

3. CAP status	                   -Steve Mansour/George Babics

4. CALSCH.ORG web site	-Bob Mahoney

5. Have we bit off more than we can chew? -Steve Mansour
	Are the sheer size of the documents & scope of effort 
impeding adoption?

6. "Guide to Internet Calendaring" Last Call   -Bob/George

7. RFC updates and status  -TBA

7. Plans for further informal meetings during the week.

8. Adjourn.

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue Mar 13 01:15:06 2001
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Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 01:16:19 -0500

Folks,

Here is the current agenda for IETF 50:

Agenda for iptel working group
IETF 50
-------

1. Agenda Bashing [Rosenberg] - 5 mins
2. CPL Status and Update [Rosenberg] - 5 mins
3. TRIP Open Issue [Rosenberg] - 10 mins
4. Transit Network Selection [Walker] - 10 mins
5. TRIP MIB Update and Issues  [Walker] - 10 mins
6. Service Codes [Peterson] - 10 mins
7. New Charter discussion [Rosenberg] - 30 mins


Comments welcome. I'll be sending out a charter proposal shortly for perusal
and comment before the meeting.

Thanks,
Jonathan R.

---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
 

_______________________________________________
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Folks,

Here is the outline of the presentation John Stracke, who participates in
calsch, will be giving regarding CPL and iCalendar during the calsch
meeting.

-Jonathan R.

---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stracke [mailto:francis@ecal.com]
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 3:13 PM
To: ietf-calendar@imc.org
Subject: Re: CALSCH Agenda for IETF 50


Bob Mahoney wrote:

> 2. IPTEL/CALSCH issues  -John Stracke
>         Overview of major issues
>         (Will also be covered in WG dinners and such)

Attached is the outline of what I'll be covering.  Please let me
know if there's anything unclear, or if you think it's too long,
or something.

--
/==============================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
|Chief Scientist |=============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |"You gotta learn to dance before you learn to|
|francis@ecal.com|crawl!" -- Meatloaf, "Everything Louder than |
|                |Everything Else"                             |
\==============================================================/




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<html>
<head>
<title>IPTEL's use of iCalendar</title>
</head>

<body>
<h1>IPTEL's use of iCalendar</h1>

<ul>
 <li>Why IPTEL uses iCalendar
  <ul>
   <li>CPL (Call Processing Language) needs to know which rules apply
       when.
   </li>
   <li>In essence, that's a recurring event: this rule applies at
       these times.
   </li>
   <li>Rather than invent recurrence rules from scratch, CPL uses a
       subset of iCalendar's.
   </li>
   <li>Hope is that a user's CPL rules can be populated from their
       calendar: "Don't call me while I'm in meetings".
   </li>
  </ul>
 </li>

 <li>What the problem is
  <ul>
   <li>The full iCalendar RECUR semantics are too much for CPL
    <ul>
     <li>CPL has to run in a telephony switch.  CPU and memory are
         expensive.
     </li>
     <li>CPL has to run in bounded time.  BYSETPOS and COUNT cannot be
         evaluated in bounded time.
     </li>
     <li>Also, iCalendar can specify a recurring event whose instances
         overlap.  Nightmare.
     </li>
    </ul>
   </li>
   <li>So CPL defines a subset of the recurrence rules
    <ul>
     <li>Eliminates all sub-day parameters (SECONDLY, MINUTELY,
         HOURLY, BYSECOND, BYMINUTE, BYHOUR).
     </li>
     <li>Eliminates BYSETPOS, COUNT.
     </li>
     <li>Restricts DURATION to be less than 24 hours.
     </li>
    </ul>
   </li>
   <li>Meets CPL's needs, but cannot interoperate
    <ul>
     <li>A calendar user can specify recurrences which their IPTEL
         switch cannot implement.
     </li>
     <li>If the switch and the CS are connecting behind the scenes,
         it will be difficult to give the user a good explanation.
     </li>
     <li>User will wind up believing the switch just doesn't work.
     </li>
     <li>Some users may not encounter the problem.  This is worse,
         because, sooner or later, they will; and then it'll be a
         surprise.
     </li>
    </ul>
   </li>
  </ul>
 </li>

 <li>The subset solution
  <ul>
   <li>iCalendar's recurrence rules are too much for calendars, too.
    <ul>
     <li>Possible to define extremely complex rules.  Example:
      <ul>
       <li>occurs every 79 seconds,
       </li>
       <li>also occurs at 3:15:25 PM on the 12th, 37th, and 159th days
           of the year,
       </li>
       <li>but does not occur unless it's 13 or 23 seconds after the minute,
       </li>
       <li>and does not occur on the second Tuesday of the month.
       </li>
      </ul>
     </li>
     <li>How can UI express this clearly?
     </li>
     <li>Worse, how can the user <em>edit</em> it?
     </li>
     <li>CUA's RRULE editor will work only on a subset; no other
         option.
     </li>
     <li>Different CUAs will use different subsets.  Might not test
         features outside their subset properly.  Interop nightmare.
     </li>
    </ul>
   </li>
   <li>Suggestion: define a subset.
    <ul>
     <li>Pare down the semantics to something manageable.
     </li>
     <li>draft-stracke-calsch-rrule-subset-XX.txt defines subset from
         CPL
     </li>
     <li>Might conceivably need to be simplified still more, but this
         is a start.
     </li>
    </ul>
   </li>
   <li>My preference: this subset should become the only set.
    <ul>
     <li>When we rev 2445, we should throw out the parts that don't
         fit.
     </li>
     <li>Otherwise, we still have interop problems, when a 2445bis CUA
         gets an iCalendar from a 2445 CUA.
     </li>
    </ul>
   </li>
  </ul>
 </li>
</ul>

</body>
</html>

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Here is the unpublished draft that John Stracke, who is involved in calsch,
and Jonathan Lennox, have co-authored. It defines the iCalendar subset
indpendently of CPL.

-Jonathan R.

---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
 

-----Original Message-----
From: John Stracke [mailto:francis@ecal.com]
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 10:17 AM
To: ietf-calendar@imc.org
Subject: Re: CALSCH Agenda for IETF 50


John Stracke wrote:

* Bob Mahoney wrote:
>
> > 2. IPTEL/CALSCH issues  -John Stracke
> >         Overview of major issues
> >         (Will also be covered in WG dinners and such)
>
> Attached is the outline of what I'll be covering.

And here's the (unsubmitted) Draft it mentions.

--
/=================================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.   |
|Chief Scientist |================================================|
|eCal Corp.      |I'm not imaginary. I'm ontologically challenged.|
|francis@ecal.com|                                                |
\=================================================================/




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Internet Engineering Task Force                     J. Stracke
INTERNET DRAFT                                            eCal
draft-stracke-calsch-rrule-subset-XX.txt             J. Lennox
                                                Columbia Univ.

                                                 February 2001
                                          Expires: August 2001


                A Simplified Subset of iCalendar RRULEs


1.  Status of this Memo

   This document is an Internet-Draft and is in full conformance with
   all provisions of Section 10 of RFC2026.

   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
   Drafts.  Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of
   six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other docu-
   ments at any time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as
   reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
   http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt

   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
   http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.

   Distribution of this document is unlimited. Please send comments to
   francis@ecal.com or to the ietf-calendar@imc.org discussion list
   (subscription address ietf-calendar-request@imc.org; "SUBSCRIBE" or
   "UNSUBSCRIBE" in the body).


2.  Copyright Notice

   Copyright (C) The Internet Society (2000).  All Rights Reserved.


3.  Abstract

   This document sets forth a subset of the RRULE syntax for [iCalen-
   dar].  The problem which motivated this subset is that iCalendar's
   recurring-event rules are extremely complex; it is difficult to =
eval-
   uate them, and well-nigh impossible to build a usable user interface



Stracke, Lennox                                                 [Page =
1]
=0C
RRULE Subset                                               December =
2000


   to edit them.


4.  Introduction

   [iCalendar]'s recurrence rules are extremely complex.  For example,
   it is possible to specify an event which:

      * occurs every 79 seconds,
      * also occurs at 3:15:25 PM on the 12th, 37th, and 159th days of
      the year,
      * but does not occur unless it's 13 or 23 seconds after the
      minute,
      * and does not occur on the second Tuesday of the month.

   While it is certainly feasible (though difficult) to write computer
   code which interprets such rules, it is extremely hard to be sure =
one
   has written this code correctly.  Furthermore, it is probably impos-
   sible to create a user interface which can display (let alone edit)
   these rules in a comprehensible fashion.  (For one thing, note that
   the "not unless it's 13 or 23 seconds after the minute" part con-
   flicts with the "3:15:25 PM" part.  It is, of course, possible to
   write code which examines the rule for such conflicts; but then one
   has to figure out how to explain them to the user.  A proper UI pre-
   vents the user from making mistakes in the first place; and that
   becomes nearly impossible when the mistakes are so hard to explain.)

   In order to make the user interface comprehensible, each CUA will
   probably expose only a subset of the available recurrence features =
to
   the user.  The risk, then, is that different CUAs will expose =
differ-
   ent subsets, and will not be properly tested for iCalendar objects
   which stray outside those subsets.  Even if they expand those =
iCalen-
   dar objects correctly, they may not display the full recurrence rule
   correctly, since that would require complicating the UI.  If that
   happens, the user will wind up seeing that the recurrence rule for
   their repeating event says it occurs every Monday, but the calendar
   does not show the event on every Monday; there are gaps.  Confusing
   the users like this effectively means that there will not be =
interop-
   erability: even if the underlying iCalendar implementations under-
   stand each other, the users don't.

   Finally, evaluating these rules is highly CPU-intensive.  If one =
uses
   the COUNT parameter, for example, to state that the event occurs no
   more than 25 times, then, every time the user wishes to see their
   calendar, the CUA (Calendar User Agent) must evaluate that rule up =
to
   25 times.  This is sort of acceptable when it's just the CUA getting
   involved; but, if the CUA is making a query against a CS (Calendar
   Store) for all the user's events within a given range, that's an



Stracke, Lennox                                                 [Page =
2]
=0C
RRULE Subset                                               December =
2000


   extremely expensive request, computationally, to impose on a server.
   Servers which support such queries will not scale, unless they pre-
   expand their recurring events.  This approach can work, but it has
   its own problems; it is expensive in disk space, and may create so
   many database entries that the database slows down.  (Or, of course,
   it may not; the point is simply that, as things stand, this approach
   is the only viable one; with cheaper evaluation, we have more
   options, more opportunities to find the Right Thing.)

   The iptel working group, in defining their Call Processing Language
   ([CPL]), needed a way of specifying which processing rules apply
   when.  They wanted to reuse the iCalendar specification, but they
   found the cost of evaluating the recurrence rules to be too high to
   perform in a telephony switch.  So, instead, they used a subset of
   iCalendar recurrence rules, in which the switch can answer the ques-
   tion "which rule applies right now?" in O(1) time.  This document
   lays out that subset in iCalendar terms.


5.  Subset Definition

   In this subset, not all of the parameters defined in [iCalendar]'s
   section 4.3.10 (which defines the value type RECUR) are allowed.  =
The
   allowed parameters are:

      * FREQ
      * INTERVAL
      * UNTIL
      * BYDAY
      * BYMONTHDAY
      * BYYEARDAY
      * BYWEEKNO
      * BYMONTH
      * WKST

      In addition, the FREQ parameter is more restricted than in [iCal-
      endar]; the only legal values are DAILY, WEEKLY, MONTHLY, and
      YEARLY (SECONDLY, MINUTELY, and HOURLY were removed).

      Finally, the event's DURATION must be less than 24 hours.


6.  Subset Motivation

   (This section is non-normative.)

   The COUNT and BYSETPOS parameters have been removed in order to make
   sure that it is possible to evaluate a rule in O(1) time; since =
COUNT



Stracke, Lennox                                                 [Page =
3]
=0C
RRULE Subset                                               December =
2000


   and BYSETPOS rely on the concept of "Nth instance of the event", =
they
   require the implementation to loop through and evaluate at least the
   first N instances.  If necessary, similar functionality can be
   obtained via UNTIL and EXDATE or RDATE.

   In addition, limiting FREQ's values and removing BYSECOND, BYMINUTE,
   and BYHOUR makes it impossible to specify an event which recurs more
   often than once per day.  Combined with the restriction that the
   event's duration must be less than 24 hours, this makes sure that no
   two instances of a recurring event can overlap.  Overlapping
   instances would complicate the evaluation algorithm and prevent it
   from being O(1); and, in any case, a user interface would be hard-
   pressed to display an event with overlapping instances in a coherent
   fashion.  It might be possible to come up with some other way of =
pre-
   venting overlapping instances, but this one is simple to understand
   (both for implementors and for users).

   It is worth pointing out that the O(1) algorithm is not quite con-
   stant time; for example, if the VEVENT contains both an RRULE and an
   EXRULE, evaluation will take twice as long.  If it contains N
   EXDATEs, evaluation will go up by an O(N) factor (the same applies
   for RDATEs, of course).


7.  Conclusions

   The subset specified here is much simpler to work with than the full
   RECUR syntax of [iCalendar], without greatly limiting functionality;
   if we modify iCalendar to be limited to this subset, it ought to be
   easier to achieve full interoperability.  It will also be simpler =
for
   users to understand, and for implementations to evaluate.


8.  Security Considerations

   This document specifies a subset of [iCalendar], and accordingly
   inherits all of iCalendar's security analysis.  It seems intuitively
   obvious (warning: handwaving ahead) that adopting this subset cannot
   introduce new security risks; that any risk present in this subset =
is
   also present in the original iCalendar specification.


9.  An Algorithm for Resolving Time Switches

   (This section is non-normative.  It is taken from Appendix A of
   [CPL].)





Stracke, Lennox                                                 [Page =
4]
=0C
RRULE Subset                                               December =
2000


   The following algorithm resolves, in constant time, whether a given
   instant falls within a repetition of a time-switch recurrence. Open-
   source Java code implementing this algorithm is available on the
   world wide web at <http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~lennox/Cal-Code/>.

     1.   Compute the time of the call, in the timezone of the time
          switch.  (No step after this needs to consider time zones --
          all calculations are done using continuously-running standard
          Gregorian time.)

     2.   If the call time is earlier than dtstart, fail NOMATCH.

     3.   If the call time is less than duration after dtstart, succeed
          MATCH.

     4.   Determine the smallest unit specified in a byxxx rule or by
          the freq. Call this the Minimum Unit.  Determine the previous
          instant (before the call time) when all the time units =
smaller
          than the minimum unit are the same as those of dtstart. (For
          all minimum units, the time-of-day must be the same as
          dtstart. If the minimum unit is a week, the day-of-the-week
          must be the same as dtstart. If the minimum unit is a month,
          the day-of-the-month must be the same as dtstart. If the =
mini-
          mum unit is a year, the month and day-of-month must both be
          the same as dtstart. (Note that this means it may be =
necessary
          to roll back more than one minimum unit -- if the minimum =
unit
          is a month, then some months do not have a 31st (or 30th or
          29th) day; if the minimum unit is a year, then some years do
          not have a February 29th. In the Gregorian calendar, it is
          never necessary to roll back more than two months, or eight
          years (four years between 1904 and 2096).)

          Call this instant the Candidate Start Time.

     5.   If the time between the candidate start time and the call =
time
          is more than the duration, fail NOMATCH.

     6.   If the candidate start time is later than the until parameter
          of the recurrence, fail NOMATCH.

     7.   Call the unit of the freq parameter of the recurrence the =
Fre-
          quency Unit.  Determine the frequency unit enclosing the Can-
          didate Start Time, and that enclosing dtstart. Calculate the
          number of frequency units that have passed between these two
          times. If this is not a multiple of the interval parameter,
          fail NOMATCH.





Stracke, Lennox                                                 [Page =
5]
=0C
RRULE Subset                                               December =
2000


     8.   For every byxxx rule, confirm that the candidate start time
          matches one of the options specified by that byxxx rule. If
          not, fail NOMATCH.

     9.   Succeed MATCH.



10.  Authors' Addresses:

   John Stracke
   Chief Scientist
   eCal Corp.
   Email: francis@ecal.com

   Jonathan Lennox
   Dept. of Computer Science
   Columbia University
   1214 Amsterdam Avenue, MC 0401
   New York, NY 10027
   USA
   Email: lennox@cs.columbia.edu



11.  References

[iCAL] Dawson, Stenerson, "Internet Calendaring and Scheduling Core
Object Specification (iCalendar)", RFC 2445, November 1998.

[CPL] Lennox, Schulzrinne, "CPL: A Language for User Control of =
Internet
Telephony Services", draft-ietf-iptel-cpl-04.txt, November 2000.  Work
in progress.


















Stracke, Lennox                                                 [Page =
6]
=0C

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Jonathan Rosenberg wrote:

> Here is the unpublished draft that John Stracke, who is involved in calsch,
> and Jonathan Lennox, have co-authored. It defines the iCalendar subset
> indpendently of CPL.

The obvious comment is that in section 5, DURATION must also be positive.

James Undery


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Subject: [IPTEL] help for a service in CPL
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Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:38:34 -0500

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Hello all!

I'm trying to develop a service of user location using CPL in a =
networking architecture SIP. I'm not expert in CPL and for this reason I =
need help to correct a script for the xml code.

The service of intelligent user location has, such as final goal, to =
give the user the posibility of others users to localize him/her in =
different places depending of the hours during the day, for example, in =
the case Mary wants to be localized since 00:00:00 hours until 06:00:00 =
in the Mary@IBM.com location and since 18:00:00 until 12:00:00 in the =
Mary12@Epson.com location.=20

The explanation of my design is as follow:

The first address-switch asks for the host where reside the service. If =
the domain is ITEC-telecom.com.co, to pass second address-switch, =
otherwise the call is reject.=20

The second address-switch asks for the user. If the user is Mary, the =
call reach to the first time switch, otherwise the call is reject.

The first time switch indicate that the user will be localized since the =
00:00:00 hours until 6 hours after in the Mary@IBM.com location.=20

If  the local time is not accord with the time established in the =
time-switch, the call will reach the second time-switch.

The second time-switch indicate that the user will be localized since =
the 06:00:00 hours until 12:00:00 hours. If the local time is accord =
with this interval, the user will be localized in the Mary12@Epson.com =
location, otherwise the call will be reject.

The proxy action signalling has three outputs. The busy and failure =
outputs correspond to the events: response 486 and 3xx respectively in =
the SIP protocol, the noanswer output go to a subaction called Mail, =
that contains a location node and a redirect action signalling.

The cpl diagram and the xml code with its respective dtd are attached.

I need to know if this design and if the xml code are right.

Thanks in advance


Katherine Morera Olarte
Research Division
ITEC-TELECOM
Bogot=E1 Colombia

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<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>I'm trying to develop a service of =
user=20
location using CPL in a networking architecture SIP. I'm not expert in =
CPL and=20
for this reason I need help to correct a script for the xml =
code.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The service of intelligent user =
location has, such=20
as final goal, to give the user the posibility of others users to =
localize=20
him/her in different places depending of the hours during the day, for =
example,=20
in the case Mary wants to be localized since 00:00:00 hours until =
06:00:00 in=20
the <A href=3D"mailto:Mary@IBM.com">Mary@IBM.com</A> location and since =
18:00:00=20
until 12:00:00 in the <A =
href=3D"mailto:Mary12@Epson.com">Mary12@Epson.com</A>=20
location. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The explanation of my design is as=20
follow:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The first address-switch asks for the =
host where=20
reside the service. If the domain is ITEC-telecom.com.co, to pass second =

address-switch, otherwise the call is reject. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The second address-switch asks for the =
user. If the=20
user is Mary, the call reach to the first time switch, otherwise the =
call is=20
reject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The first time switch indicate that the =
user will=20
be localized since the 00:00:00 hours until 6 hours after in the <A=20
href=3D"mailto:Mary@IBM.com">Mary@IBM.com</A> location. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If&nbsp; the local time is not accord =
with the time=20
established in the time-switch, the call will reach the second=20
time-switch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The second time-switch indicate that =
the user will=20
be localized since the 06:00:00 hours until 12:00:00 hours. </FONT><FONT =

face=3DArial size=3D2>If the local time is accord with this interval, =
the user will=20
be localized in the <A =
href=3D"mailto:Mary12@Epson.com">Mary12@Epson.com</A>=20
location, otherwise the call will be reject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The proxy action signalling has three =
outputs. The=20
busy and failure outputs correspond to the events: response 486 and 3xx=20
respectively in the SIP protocol, the noanswer output go to a subaction =
called=20
Mail, that contains a location node and a redirect action=20
signalling.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The cpl diagram and the xml code with =
its=20
respective dtd are attached.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I need to know if this design and if =
the xml code=20
are right.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Katherine Morera Olarte</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Research =
Division<BR>ITEC-TELECOM<BR>Bogot=E1=20
Colombia</FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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<!DOCTYPE cpl SYSTEM "CPL2.dtd"> 
  <cpl>
  <subaction id="Mail">
   <location url="sip:Mary@hotmail.com">
    <redirect/>
   </location>
  </subaction>
  <incoming>
   <address-switch field="To" subfield="host">
    <address subdomain-of="ITEC-telecom.com">
     <address-switch field="To" subfield="user">
      <address is="Mary">
       <time-switch tzid="America\Bogota">
        <time dtstart="20010309T000000" duration="PT6H" freq="daily">
         <location url="sip:Mary@IBM.com">
          <proxy timeout="15s">
           <busy/>
           <noanswer>
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        </time>
        <otherwise>
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           <location url="sip:Mary12@Epson.com">
            <proxy timeout="15s">
	     <busy/>
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	      <sub ref="Mail">
	      </sub>
	     </noanswer>
	     <failure/>
            </proxy>
           </location>
          </time>        
          <otherwise>           
           <sub ref="Mail">
           </sub>
          </otherwise>
         </time-switch> 
        </otherwise>
       </time-switch>
      </address>
      <otherwise>
       <reject status="error"/>
      </otherwise>
     </address-switch>     
    </address>
    <otherwise>
     <reject status="reject"/>
    </otherwise>
   </address-switch>  
  </incoming>
 </cpl>
 
 

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   <!ENTITY % Switch 'address-switch|time-switch' >
   <!ENTITY % Location 'location' >
   <!ENTITY % SignallingAction 'proxy|redirect|reject' >
   <!ENTITY % Sub 'sub' >
   <!ENTITY % Node '(%Location;|%Switch;|%SignallingAction;|%Sub;)?' >
   <!ELEMENT otherwise ( %Node; ) >
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   <!ELEMENT address-switch ( (address|not-present)+, otherwise? ) >
   <!ATTLIST address-switch
      field         CDATA    #REQUIRED
      subfield      CDATA    #IMPLIED
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   <!ELEMENT address ( %Node; ) >
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      contains CDATA #IMPLIED
      subdomain-of CDATA #IMPLIED
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   <!ELEMENT time-switch ( (time|not-present)+, otherwise? ) >
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      tzid          CDATA    #IMPLIED
      tzurl         CDATA    #IMPLIED
   >
   <!ELEMENT time ( %Node; ) >
   <!ATTLIST time
      dtstart       CDATA  #REQUIRED
      dtend         CDATA  #IMPLIED
      duration      CDATA  #IMPLIED
      freq          CDATA  #IMPLIED
      byday         CDATA  #IMPLIED
   >
   <!ENTITY % Clear  'clear (yes|no) "no"' >
   <!ELEMENT location ( %Node; ) >
   <!ATTLIST location
      url           CDATA    #REQUIRED
      priority      CDATA    #IMPLIED
      %Clear;
   >
   <!ELEMENT proxy ( busy?,noanswer?,redirection?,failure?,default? ) >
   <!ATTLIST proxy
      timeout       CDATA    #IMPLIED
      recurse       (yes|no) "yes"
      ordering      CDATA    "parallel"
   >
   <!ELEMENT busy ( %Node; ) >
   <!ELEMENT noanswer ( %Node; ) >
   <!ELEMENT redirection ( %Node; ) >
   <!ELEMENT failure ( %Node; ) >
   <!ELEMENT default ( %Node; ) >

   <!ELEMENT redirect EMPTY >
   <!ATTLIST redirect
      permanent     (yes|no) "no"
   >

   <!ELEMENT reject EMPTY >
   <!ATTLIST reject
      status        CDATA    #REQUIRED
      reason        CDATA    #IMPLIED
   >

   <!ELEMENT sub EMPTY >
   <!ATTLIST sub
      ref           IDREF    #REQUIRED
   >

   <!ENTITY % Ancillary 'ancillary?' >

   <!ELEMENT ancillary EMPTY >

   <!ENTITY % Subactions 'subaction*' >
   <!ELEMENT subaction ( %Node; )>
   <!ATTLIST subaction
      id ID #REQUIRED
   >
   <!ENTITY % TopLevelActions 'outgoing?,incoming?' >
   <!ELEMENT outgoing ( %Node; )>
   <!ELEMENT incoming ( %Node; )>
   <!ELEMENT cpl  ( %Ancillary;,%Subactions;,%TopLevelActions; ) >

------=_NextPart_000_031C_01C0ADFC.DE8CD7F0--


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Subject: [IPTEL] Help of a service in cpl
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------=_NextPart_001_0384_01C0AE08.FD42D1C0
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Hello all!

I'm trying to develop a service of user location using CPL in a =
networking architecture SIP. I'm not expert in CPL and for this reason I =
need help to correct a script for the xml code.

The service of intelligent user location has, such as final goal, to =
give the user the posibility of others users to localize him/her in =
different places depending of the hours during the day, for example, in =
the case Mary wants to be localized since 00:00:00 hours until 06:00:00 =
in the Mary@IBM.com location and since 18:00:00 until 12:00:00 in the =
Mary12@Epson.com location.=20

The explanation of my design is as follow:

The first address-switch asks for the host where reside the service. If =
the domain is ITEC-telecom.com.co, to pass second address-switch, =
otherwise the call is reject.=20
=20
The second address-switch asks for the user. If the user is Mary, the =
call reach to the first time switch, otherwise the call is reject.

The first time switch indicate that the user will be localized since the =
00:00:00 hours until 6 hours after in the Mary@IBM.com location.=20

If  the local time is not accord with the time established in the =
time-switch, the call will reach the second time-switch.

The second time-switch indicate that the user will be localized since =
the 06:00:00 hours until 12:00:00 hours. If the local time is accord =
with this interval, the user will be localized in the Mary12@Epson.com =
location, otherwise the call will be reject.

The proxy action signalling has three outputs. The busy and failure =
outputs correspond to the events: response 486 and 3xx respectively in =
the SIP protocol, the noanswer output go to a subaction called Mail, =
that contains a location node and a redirect action signalling.

The cpl diagram and the xml code with its respective dtd are attached.

I need to know if this design and if the xml code are right.
=20
Thanks in advance

=20
Katherine Morera Olarte
Research Division
ITEC-TELECOM
Bogot=E1 Colombia
http://itec.telecom-co.net


------=_NextPart_001_0384_01C0AE08.FD42D1C0
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset="iso-8859-1"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional//EN">
<HTML><HEAD>
<META content=3D"text/html; charset=3Diso-8859-1" =
http-equiv=3DContent-Type>
<META content=3D"MSHTML 5.00.2314.1000" name=3DGENERATOR>
<STYLE></STYLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY bgColor=3D#ffffff>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Hello all!</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2><BR>I'm trying to develop a service of =
user=20
location using CPL in a networking architecture SIP. I'm not expert in =
CPL and=20
for this reason I need help to correct a script for the xml =
code.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The service of intelligent user =
location has, such=20
as final goal, to give the user the posibility of others users to =
localize=20
him/her in different places depending of the hours during the day, for =
example,=20
in the case Mary wants to be localized since 00:00:00 hours until =
06:00:00 in=20
the <A href=3D"mailto:Mary@IBM.com">Mary@IBM.com</A> location and since =
18:00:00=20
until 12:00:00 in the <A =
href=3D"mailto:Mary12@Epson.com">Mary12@Epson.com</A>=20
location. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The explanation of my design is as=20
follow:</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The first address-switch asks for the =
host where=20
reside the service. If the domain is ITEC-telecom.com.co, to pass second =

address-switch, otherwise the call is reject. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The second address-switch asks for the =
user. If the=20
user is Mary, the call reach to the first time switch, otherwise the =
call is=20
reject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The first time switch indicate that the =
user will=20
be localized since the 00:00:00 hours until 6 hours after in the <A=20
href=3D"mailto:Mary@IBM.com">Mary@IBM.com</A> location. </FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>If&nbsp; the local time is not accord =
with the time=20
established in the time-switch, the call will reach the second=20
time-switch.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The second time-switch indicate that =
the user will=20
be localized since the 06:00:00 hours until 12:00:00 hours. </FONT><FONT =

face=3DArial size=3D2>If the local time is accord with this interval, =
the user will=20
be localized in the <A =
href=3D"mailto:Mary12@Epson.com">Mary12@Epson.com</A>=20
location, otherwise the call will be reject.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The proxy action signalling has three =
outputs. The=20
busy and failure outputs correspond to the events: response 486 and 3xx=20
respectively in the SIP protocol, the noanswer output go to a subaction =
called=20
Mail, that contains a location node and a redirect action=20
signalling.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>The cpl diagram and the xml code with =
its=20
respective dtd are attached.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>I need to know if this design and if =
the xml code=20
are right.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Thanks in advance</FONT></DIV>
<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT>&nbsp;</DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Katherine Morera Olarte</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>Research =
Division<BR>ITEC-TELECOM<BR>Bogot=E1=20
Colombia</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><A =
href=3D"http://itec.telecom-co.net">http://itec.telecom-co.net</A></DIV>
<P></P></FONT></DIV></FONT></DIV></BODY></HTML>

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sat Mar 17 18:33:04 2001
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Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 18:34:25 -0500

Folks,

One of the items on our agenda Monday is the discussion of the new charter.
To facilitate the discussion, the proposed charter is enclosed here for your
perusal. Comments received from some folks who saw an early version of this
was that there was interest in owning the tel URL, and specifying some
extensions to it (James' LNP and freephone extensions), and moving it to
draft.

Comments welcome.

Thanks,
JOnathan R.




IP Telephony (iptel) Working Group

Chair:
  Jonathan Rosenberg <jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com>

Transport Area Directors:

Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>
Allison Mankin <mankin@east.isi.edu>

Transport Area Advisor:

Scott Bradner <sob@harvard.edu>

Description

The focus of the IP Telephony (iptel) group is on the problems related
to propagation of routing information for VoIP
protocols. Specifically, both SIP and H.323 have the notion of
signaling intermediaries (proxies in SIP and gatekeepers in
H.323). When these devices receive call establishment messages, they
must make a routing decision on where to forward the call setup
messages.

The iptel group has already defined a protocol, Telephony Routing over
IP (TRIP), which solves one aspect of this problem. Specifically, it
handles the case where calls need to be routed between providers. It
allows for the exchange of routing information between these
providers, so that policies can be applied to the resulting data to
create a forwarding information base. 

However, this protocol does not address all the scenarios of route
information exchange between servers. The group will therefore
generate several additional documents that cover cases that are not
handled by TRIP. The first document is an informational framework and
requirements RFC that discusses these various route exchange cases -
specifically, intra-domain route propagation, gateway to server route
exchange (also known as gateway registrations), and service
routing. This document will discuss a framework for how these pieces
fit together, and fit with the existing TRIP framework, and will also
define requirements for protocols to address these additional
cases. An analysis of the security requirements for these scenarios
will also be part of the document. 

The group will also specify a standards track protocol (most likely a
set of new attributes and usage case for TRIP) for the gateway
registration scenario. This case is the most well understood and also
in the most urgent need of standardization; proprietary solutions are
beginning to get deployed, and these solutions are both
architecturally unsound and not interoperable.

The group will generate a
MIB document for TRIP, and will generate a guidelines document that
elaborates on typical configuration and policy setups for proper usage
of TRIP. Note that the group is not working on elevating TRIP to Draft
Standard at this time.  

Deliverables:

1. A Proposed Standard TRIP MIB specification, based heavily on the
existing BGP-4 MIB documents. 

2. A TRIP Usage Guidelines BCP RFC

3. A VoIP Route Exchange Framework and Requirements document, to be
published as an Informational RFC

4. A proposed standard RFC for gateway to server route exchange.


Milestones:

Sep 01 : Gateway to Server Route Exchange document submitted to IESG
for consideration as proposed standard.

Sep 01: VoIP Route Exchange Framework and Requirements document
submitted to IESG for consideration as Informational RFC

Dec 01: TRIP MIB Document submitted to IESG for consideration as
proposed standard

Feb 02: TRIP Usage Guidelines Document submitted to IESG for consideration
as BCP


---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
 

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Sun Mar 18 10:41:34 2001
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Subject: [IPTEL] Call for Participation: Internet Telephony Workshop 2001 April 2/3
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Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:38:09 -0500 (EST)

                           Call for Participation

                         2nd IP Telephony Workshop
	  
            April 2-3, 2001 - Columbia University, New York City
                 http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/iptel2001/


Objectives
---------- 
Internet telephony is rapidly evolving from research to design
and deployment. The IP Telephony Workshop aims at bringing together 
researchers, developers, vendors and service providers active in this 
area and stimulate discussion on innovation, research, implementation, 
deployment experiences and future directions.

Scope & Topics 
--------------
Original technical articles related to IP telephony will be presented,
on topics ranging from quality of service, voice measurements,
deployment experiences, accounting, security, service and feature
interaction.  The keynote address will be given by Prof. Dave Farber
from the University of Pennsylvania.

Important Dates
--------------- 
Registration deadline  March 23rd,    2001
Workshop               April 2nd-3rd, 2001

iptel2001 Organizing Committee 
------------------------------
Program Chair         
 H. Schulzrinne       Columbia University 
Program Committee 
 M. Arango            Sun Microsystems
 F. Baker             Cisco
 W. Bauerfeld         T-Nova
 G. Bond              AT&T Research
 S. Bradner           Harvard University
 G. Carle             GMD FOKUS
 J. Crowcroft         UCL
 C. Huitema           Microsoft
 G. S. Kuo            National Central University, Taiwan
 J. Kuthan            GMD Fokus
 T. Magedanz          IKV++ GmbH
 W. Marshall          AT&T Research
 D. Medhi             University of Missouri-Kansas City
 D. Oran              Cisco
 J. Ott               University of Bremen
 T. La Porta          Bell Labs
 B. Rosen             Marconi
 J. Rosenberg         dynamicsoft
 H. Sinnreich         MCI WorldCom
 R. Steinmetz         Technical University of Darmstadt
 H. Stüttgen          NEC CCRLE
 W. Wimmreuter        Siemens
 L. Wolf              University of Karlsruhe
 A. Wolisz            Technical University of Berlin

Contact Address
---------------
Please send all your inquiries regarding iptel2001 to 

               iptel2001@egroups.com.

Registration
------------
The registration is now open. Participants are asked to register 
in advance at

		http://www.fokus.gmd.de/iptel2001/iptel2001/reg/

The registration deadline is March 23rd, 2001. See our registration 
website for more details.


Accommodation
-------------

New York city offers many hotels in different price ranges. Our
accommodation web page contains pointers to some nearby hotels, however,
attendees are responsible for booking their own accommodation.

	http://www.fokus.gmd.de/events/iptel2001/accommodation/


Exhibition
----------
To demonstrate how research and development become reality there will 
be an exhibition co-located with the workshop. A limited number of teams 
from industry as well as from academia and research will be given space to 
present their software and hardware, both products and prototypes. If you 
are interested in presenting your products or prototypes at iptel2001, 
please send an e-mail to 

		iptel2001@egroups.com. 

Please include a short description of what you plan to display and special 
requirements if you have any. We will provide tables, power strips, 
Ethernet/802.11b wireless Internet connectivity (no firewall/NAT) and
space for your booth if needed. 

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue Mar 20 09:39:08 2001
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Subject: [IPTEL] Current thinking on CPL/iCalendar
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We talked about the CPL/iCalendar issue at the calsch dinner
tonight.  The outcome (such as it is):

   * Some of us, at least, like the idea of cutting back
     iCalendar's RECUR semantics to match the CPL semantics (as I
     described in the informal Draft I posted last Monday).
   * The changes:
        o In order to prevent overlapping instances, which
          complicate evaluation:
             + Recurring events cannot have a DURATION over 24
               hours.
             + The interval between instances must be less than
               24 hours.
             + All the RECUR parameters for sub-day values (e.g.,
               BYSEC, BYMIN, BYHOUR) are removed.
        o COUNT and BYSETPOS are removed, so that you don't have
          to step through the instances linearly in order to
          evaluate the rule.
   * Possible impact on existing (or potential) applications:
        o No overlapping instances--can anybody provide a
          plausible scenario where you'd want them?
        o Unable to schedule sub-day recurrences--is this a
          problem? They were apparently put in for people who
          wanted to schedule bandwidth allocation at a very fine
          granularity; is anybody still interested in this?
        o COUNT can be replaced with UNTIL.
        o BYSETPOS can be replaced with EXDATEs.

So.  Please think it over so we can discuss it in the meeting
Wednesday.  (If you're not here, it'd be helpful if you can post
before the meeting.)

--
/==============================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
|Chief Scientist |=============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |This space intentionally not left blank.     |
|francis@ecal.com|                                             |
\==============================================================/





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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:01:46 -0500

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John Stracke wrote:

> We talked about the CPL/iCalendar issue at the calsch dinner
> tonight.  The outcome (such as it is):
>
>     + The interval between instances must be less than
>         24 hours.

I'm assuming this is reversed and should be "more".  Otherwise my
weekly meetings are going to be a bit difficult.
A counter example would be the pill that I have to take every four
hours.

>    * Possible impact on existing (or potential) applications:
>         o No overlapping instances--can anybody provide a
>           plausible scenario where you'd want them?

Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
that there should be multiple "threads" on a per instructor basis, or
perhaps by room.  Just pointing out one possibility.

>         o Unable to schedule sub-day recurrences--is this a
>           problem? They were apparently put in for people who
>           wanted to schedule bandwidth allocation at a very fine
>           granularity; is anybody still interested in this?

My pill example

Wish I could be there...

dmadeo

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue Mar 20 09:45:48 2001
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Subject: [IPTEL] Re: Current thinking on CPL/iCalendar
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At 08.01 -0500 01-03-20, David Madeo wrote:
>John Stracke wrote:
>
>>  We talked about the CPL/iCalendar issue at the calsch dinner
>>  tonight.  The outcome (such as it is):
>>
>>      + The interval between instances must be less than
>>          24 hours.
>
>I'm assuming this is reversed and should be "more".  Otherwise my
>weekly meetings are going to be a bit difficult.
>A counter example would be the pill that I have to take every four
>hours.

Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between 
events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?

I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if 
not really needed.

>  >    * Possible impact on existing (or potential) applications:
>>          o No overlapping instances--can anybody provide a
>>            plausible scenario where you'd want them?
>
>Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
>which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
>that there should be multiple "threads" on a per instructor basis, or
>perhaps by room.  Just pointing out one possibility.

The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for 
O(1) isn't it?

Because of this I think it should be stated as the main goal for these changes.

    paf


-- 
Patrik Fältström <paf@cisco.com>       Internet Engineering Task Force
Area Director, Applications Area                   http://www.ietf.org
Phone: (Stockholm) +46-8-6859131            (San Jose) +1-408-525-8509
        PGP: 2DFC AAF6 16F0 F276 7843  2DC1 BC79 51D9 7D25 B8DC

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Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Current thinking on CPL/iCalendar
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One related item discussed was whether some elements (such as COUNT) can
be retained if CPL-implementing servers are "willing" to convert COUNT
to UNTIL when the CPL script is uploaded, so that the actual call
handling is still O(1). This obviously makes sense only if the upload
frequency is significantly lower than the call frequency.

John Stracke wrote:
> 
> We talked about the CPL/iCalendar issue at the calsch dinner
> tonight.  The outcome (such as it is):
> 
>    * Some of us, at least, like the idea of cutting back
>      iCalendar's RECUR semantics to match the CPL semantics (as I
>      described in the informal Draft I posted last Monday).
>    * The changes:
>         o In order to prevent overlapping instances, which
>           complicate evaluation:
>              + Recurring events cannot have a DURATION over 24
>                hours.
>              + The interval between instances must be less than
>                24 hours.
>              + All the RECUR parameters for sub-day values (e.g.,
>                BYSEC, BYMIN, BYHOUR) are removed.
>         o COUNT and BYSETPOS are removed, so that you don't have
>           to step through the instances linearly in order to
>           evaluate the rule.
>    * Possible impact on existing (or potential) applications:
>         o No overlapping instances--can anybody provide a
>           plausible scenario where you'd want them?
>         o Unable to schedule sub-day recurrences--is this a
>           problem? They were apparently put in for people who
>           wanted to schedule bandwidth allocation at a very fine
>           granularity; is anybody still interested in this?
>         o COUNT can be replaced with UNTIL.
>         o BYSETPOS can be replaced with EXDATEs.
> 
> So.  Please think it over so we can discuss it in the meeting
> Wednesday.  (If you're not here, it'd be helpful if you can post
> before the meeting.)
> 
> --
> /==============================================================\
> |John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
> |Chief Scientist |=============================================|
> |eCal Corp.      |This space intentionally not left blank.     |
> |francis@ecal.com|                                             |
> \==============================================================/
> 
> _______________________________________________
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Patrik Fältström wrote:

> At 08.01 -0500 01-03-20, David Madeo wrote:
> >John Stracke wrote:
> >
> >>  We talked about the CPL/iCalendar issue at the calsch dinner
> >>  tonight.  The outcome (such as it is):
> >>
> >>      + The interval between instances must be less than
> >>          24 hours.
> >
> >I'm assuming this is reversed and should be "more".  Otherwise my
> >weekly meetings are going to be a bit difficult.
> >A counter example would be the pill that I have to take every four
> >hours.
>
> Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?

yes, that is the spirit of what we're after.  Even durations must be shorter than
the recurrence interval. It turns out that one of the editor's implementation was
driving the need for the 24hr number in the proposal.

> I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
> not really needed.
>
> >  >    * Possible impact on existing (or potential) applications:
> >>          o No overlapping instances--can anybody provide a
> >>            plausible scenario where you'd want them?
> >
> >Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
> >which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
> >that there should be multiple "threads" on a per instructor basis, or
> >perhaps by room.  Just pointing out one possibility.
>
> The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for
> O(1) isn't it?

Overlapping events are common.  I think the need is for non-overlapping
recurrences.

-Steve

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At 07.04 -0800 01-03-20, Steve Mansour wrote:
>Patrik Fältström wrote:
>
>  > Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
>>  events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
>
>yes, that is the spirit of what we're after.  Even durations must be 
>shorter than the recurrence interval. It turns out that one of the 
>editor's implementation was driving the need for the 24hr number in 
>the proposal.

So, you are saying that my suggestion to change the 24h limit to 
instead a comparison between the length of the event and the length 
of the interval?

>  > The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for
>>  O(1) isn't it?
>
>Overlapping events are common.  I think the need is for non-overlapping
>recurrences.

Of course. My mistake. This was what I wanted to write...

    paf



-- 
Patrik Fältström <paf@cisco.com>       Internet Engineering Task Force
Area Director, Applications Area                   http://www.ietf.org
Phone: (Stockholm) +46-8-6859131            (San Jose) +1-408-525-8509
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Patrik Fältström wrote:

> Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
>
> I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
> not really needed.

We thought about that; but a straightforward limit like this is much easier to
explain to a user, and incorporate in a UI.

> The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for
> O(1) isn't it?

Yes.

> Because of this I think it should be stated as the main goal for these changes.

OK.

--
/==============================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
|Chief Scientist |=============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |Think of it as evolution in action.          |
|francis@ecal.com|                                             |
\==============================================================/




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David Madeo wrote:

> John Stracke wrote:
>
> >     + The interval between instances must be less than
> >         24 hours.
>
> I'm assuming this is reversed and should be "more".

Yes.

> Otherwise my
> weekly meetings are going to be a bit difficult.
> A counter example would be the pill that I have to take every four
> hours.

Yeah, we thought of that one.  The problem is that such usages are
really the 5% case; and supporting them complicates the 95% case.  Your
every-four-hours event could be implemented as six related
every-twenty-four-hours events--ugly, but the current recurrence grammar
is even uglier.

> >         o No overlapping instances--can anybody provide a
> >           plausible scenario where you'd want them?
>
> Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
> which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
> that there should be multiple "threads" on a per instructor basis, or
> perhaps by room.

Yes, that's what we were thinking of.

--
/=================================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.   |
|Chief Scientist |================================================|
|eCal Corp.      |I'm not imaginary. I'm ontologically challenged.|
|francis@ecal.com|                                                |
\=================================================================/




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Patrik replied:
> Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
>
> I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
> not really needed.

It may be part of the IPTEL but its not part of CALSCH's requirements.  I
dont see any rationale for this need so Im not sure _why_ it would exist.

> >Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
> >which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
> >that there should be multiple "threads" on a per instructor basis, or
> >perhaps by room.  Just pointing out one possibility.
>
> The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for
> O(1) isn't it?

Perhaps Im just not focused enough on O(1) but I do not see how restricting
to non-overlapping entries makes the performace faster.  I can understand
restricting the use or values in, say, an RRULEs due to potentially heavy
roll times.  I dont see how overlapping, explicit RDATEs violates or
prohibits O(1) so can someone please codify why?

Similar example to Daves:
A theatre lists a movie once but it may have overlapping show times.  It is
not that logical to have them PUBLISH movie times based on each individual
thatre; its more logical to just list all the showing times for a title.
A museum or company that conducts tours may have staggered schedules.
Instead of scheduling on a tour guide by tour guide basis, they are
scheduling on a tour by tour schedule.

Bruce
===========================================================================
Bruce Kahn                                INet: Bruce_Kahn@iris.com
Iris Associates                          Phone: 978.392.5335
Westford, MA, USA 01886                    FAX: and nothing but the FAX...
Standard disclaimers apply, even where prohibited by law...
owner-ietf-calendar@mail.imc.org wrote on 03/20/2001 09:30:32 AM:

> At 08.01 -0500 01-03-20, David Madeo wrote:
> >John Stracke wrote:
> >
> >>  We talked about the CPL/iCalendar issue at the calsch dinner
> >>  tonight.  The outcome (such as it is):
> >>
> >>      + The interval between instances must be less than
> >>          24 hours.
> >
> >I'm assuming this is reversed and should be "more".  Otherwise my
> >weekly meetings are going to be a bit difficult.
> >A counter example would be the pill that I have to take every four
> >hours.
>
>
> >  >    * Possible impact on existing (or potential) applications:
> >>          o No overlapping instances--can anybody provide a
> >>            plausible scenario where you'd want them?
> >
> >Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
> >which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
> >that there should be multiple "threads" on a per instructor basis, or
> >perhaps by room.  Just pointing out one possibility.
>
> The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for
> O(1) isn't it?
>
> Because of this I think it should be stated as the main goal for
> these changes.
>
>     paf
>
>
> --
> Patrik Fältström <paf@cisco.com>       Internet Engineering Task Force
> Area Director, Applications Area                   http://www.ietf.org
> Phone: (Stockholm) +46-8-6859131            (San Jose) +1-408-525-8509
>         PGP: 2DFC AAF6 16F0 F276 7843  2DC1 BC79 51D9 7D25 B8DC



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> 
> You are the ones making the decision, but I think you should think
> very hard wether you want this kind of limitation (a fixed limit)
> when the overlap is the most important thing, and the problem you try
> to solve.
> 
> An application can still prohibit the user from entering whatever if
> it wants to...

I don't think the latter option is viable. If application A allows it,
but application B doesn't, then shipping CPL or calsch elements from A
to B is going to be very confusing to the user. How would the B user
change the interval from 4 to 5 hours?

As I said before, the O(1) requirement can be relaxed somewhat if
reasonable expansion or translation is possible when the CPL arrives at
the server. The question is whether any existing UI support these
corner-cases.

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At 09.29 -0600 01-03-20, John Stracke wrote:
>Patrik Fältström wrote:
>
>>  Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
>  > events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
>  >
>  > I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
>  > not really needed.
>
>We thought about that; but a straightforward limit like this is much easier to
>explain to a user, and incorporate in a UI.

...but it means that you can never have recurrance rules which handle 
the "medication problem"...or a recurrance rule which tells when the 
busses are leaving for a social event (starting 17:00, every 15 
minutes, 5 times).

You are the ones making the decision, but I think you should think 
very hard wether you want this kind of limitation (a fixed limit) 
when the overlap is the most important thing, and the problem you try 
to solve.

An application can still prohibit the user from entering whatever if 
it wants to...

    paf


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Patrik Fältström wrote:

> At 07.04 -0800 01-03-20, Steve Mansour wrote:
> >Patrik Fältström wrote:
> >
> >  > Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> >>  events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
> >
> >yes, that is the spirit of what we're after.  Even durations must be
> >shorter than the recurrence interval. It turns out that one of the
> >editor's implementation was driving the need for the 24hr number in
> >the proposal.
>
> So, you are saying that my suggestion to change the 24h limit to
> instead a comparison between the length of the event and the length
> of the interval?
>

That is what I would prefer. Seems like the right thing to do. I know that
there were people who wanted recurrence intervals less than 24 hours when we
were writing iCalendar.  Seems like it would be a bad move to pull that
capability away -- especially if we have no alternative way to describe
recurrence intervals less than a day.

As far as removing the COUNT, this is bad but I understand their reasoning,
and at least there is a way to get pretty much the same functionality using
UNTIL.  I will be interested to see how the group at large reacts to this
proposal.

-Steve

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John Stracke wrote:

> Patrik Fältström wrote:
>
> > Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> > events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
> >
> > I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
> > not really needed.
>
> We thought about that; but a straightforward limit like this is much easier to
> explain to a user, and incorporate in a UI.

That is true. But a UI of an application can enforce the 24 hr limit without imposing
that limit on iCalendar.

-Steve

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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bruce_Kahn@iris.com [mailto:Bruce_Kahn@iris.com]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 10:32 AM
> To: Patrik Fältström
> Cc: David Madeo; John Stracke; calsch WG; iptel@lists.bell-labs.com
> Subject: Re: Current thinking on CPL/iCalendar
> 
> 
> 
> Patrik replied:
> > Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> > events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
> >
> > I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
> > not really needed.
> 
> It may be part of the IPTEL but its not part of CALSCH's 
> requirements.  I
> dont see any rationale for this need so Im not sure _why_ it 
> would exist.
> 
> > >Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
> > >which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
> > >that there should be multiple "threads" on a per 
> instructor basis, or
> > >perhaps by room.  Just pointing out one possibility.
> >
> > The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for
> > O(1) isn't it?
> 
> Perhaps Im just not focused enough on O(1) but I do not see 
> how restricting
> to non-overlapping entries makes the performace faster.  I 
> can understand
> restricting the use or values in, say, an RRULEs due to 
> potentially heavy
> roll times.  I dont see how overlapping, explicit RDATEs violates or
> prohibits O(1) so can someone please codify why?
> 
> Similar example to Daves:
> A theatre lists a movie once but it may have overlapping show 
> times.  It is
> not that logical to have them PUBLISH movie times based on 
> each individual
> thatre; its more logical to just list all the showing times 
> for a title.
> A museum or company that conducts tours may have staggered schedules.
> Instead of scheduling on a tour guide by tour guide basis, they are
> scheduling on a tour by tour schedule.

I'll let others comment on the computational implications of overlapping
events.

Another issue is problem space. For the CPL application, we are interested
in mapping people's schedules to call processing rules, i.e., "don't call me
when I'm in this meeting". For schedules for people, I don't see how there
would ever be overlapping recurring instances. Even if there were, it seems
we could handle this like we are handling COUNT, which is to expand them to
N sets of non-overlapping recurrences. 

-Jonathan R.

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Bruce_Kahn@iris.com wrote:

> Patrik replied:
> > Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> > events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
> >
> > I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
> > not really needed.
>
> It may be part of the IPTEL but its not part of CALSCH's requirements.  I
> dont see any rationale for this need so Im not sure _why_ it would exist.
>
> > >Our training dept schedules multiple instances of the "same" class
> > >which sometimes overlap.  I could easily be swayed by the argument
> > >that there should be multiple "threads" on a per instructor basis, or
> > >perhaps by room.  Just pointing out one possibility.
> >
> > The need for non-overlapping events is the largest requirement for
> > O(1) isn't it?
>
> Perhaps Im just not focused enough on O(1) but I do not see how restricting
> to non-overlapping entries makes the performace faster.  I can understand
> restricting the use or values in, say, an RRULEs due to potentially heavy
> roll times.  I dont see how overlapping, explicit RDATEs violates or
> prohibits O(1) so can someone please codify why?
>
> Similar example to Daves:
> A theatre lists a movie once but it may have overlapping show times.

but they will be in different locations.

> It is
> not that logical to have them PUBLISH movie times based on each individual
> thatre; its more logical to just list all the showing times for a title.

I don't know. It doesn't seems more logical to me if I was generating PUBLISH
events.  How would you list the LOCATIONs ?

> A museum or company that conducts tours may have staggered schedules.
> Instead of scheduling on a tour guide by tour guide basis, they are
> scheduling on a tour by tour schedule.

So in other words, the tour is 2 hours, there's two of them every day, they
start at 10:00 and 10:30 ?

This could be done with two separate recurring meetings as well.  May not be as
elegant, but then I can't envision the UI that would allow you to create such
meetings as a single event.

Seems like there is a reasonable workaround for the overlapping recurrences.  A
clarification stating that recurrence intervals must be greater than the
duration of the event seems like it does a lot more good than harm.

-Steve

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Subject: [IPTEL] Re: Current thinking on CPL/iCalendar
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> > >  Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> > >            events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?

> > > I.e. removing support for sub-24h recurrances seems too arbitrary if
> > > not really needed.

> > We thought about that; but a straightforward limit like this is much easier to
> > explain to a user, and incorporate in a UI.

I don't agree. Part of explaining a limitation is justifying it. It may be a
bit easier to say or imply in a UI that short recurrances aren't allowed, but
it is pretty hard to justify. Whereas prohibiting overlap may manifest in a
more obvious way but seems a lot more natural.

> ...but it means that you can never have recurrance rules which handle
> the "medication problem"...or a recurrance rule which tells when the
> busses are leaving for a social event (starting 17:00, every 15
> minutes, 5 times).

... or when the tour starts every 15 minutes. ... or when the presentation at
the trade show begins 5 minutes after the hour, every hour. ... or when the
film loop restarts every hour on the hour. Heck, they make single-hand standup
clocks specifically to show this sort of stuff. It is a _common_ schedule for
things to have.

> You are the ones making the decision, but I think you should think
> very hard wether you want this kind of limitation (a fixed limit)
> when the overlap is the most important thing, and the problem you try
> to solve.

I agree.

				Ned

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On Tuesday, March 20 2001, "Bruce_Kahn@iris.com" wrote to "Patrik Fältström, David Madeo, John Stracke, calsch WG, iptel@lists.bell-labs.com" saying:

> Perhaps Im just not focused enough on O(1) but I do not see how restricting
> to non-overlapping entries makes the performace faster.  I can understand
> restricting the use or values in, say, an RRULEs due to potentially heavy
> roll times.  I dont see how overlapping, explicit RDATEs violates or
> prohibits O(1) so can someone please codify why?

They don't.  The prohibition is on overlapping recurrences within an RRULE,
not on overlapping recurrences within an entire RECUR.

(For IPTel folks: this means "the prohibition is on overlapping recurrences
within a <time>, not on all the <time> nodes within a <time-switch>.)

The *total* resolution time is O(n) in the number of sub-rules of the
RECUR / outputs of the <time-switch> node, but since this is proportional to
the length of the iCalendar object / CPL, that's inevitable anyway.

-- 
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu

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On Tuesday, March 20 2001, "Jonathan Rosenberg" wrote to "'Bruce_Kahn@iris.com', Patri 	k Fältström, David Madeo, John Stracke, calsch WG, iptel@lists.bell-labs.com" saying:

> Another issue is problem space. For the CPL application, we are interested
> in mapping people's schedules to call processing rules, i.e., "don't call me
> when I'm in this meeting".

While this is true, I think the rough consensus -- and the message from the
IESG -- was that, if at all possible, we should come up with a common subset
between CPL and iCalendar, so we have to consider the iCalendar's larger
problem space here.

> For schedules for people, I don't see how there
> would ever be overlapping recurring instances. Even if there were, it seems
> we could handle this like we are handling COUNT, which is to expand them to
> N sets of non-overlapping recurrences. 

Maybe.  The unrolling algorithm isn't as straightforward as the COUNT->UNTIL
transformation, but I'll think about it.

-- 
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu

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From: ned.freed@mrochek.com
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] Re: Current thinking on CPL/iCalendar
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> >
> > You are the ones making the decision, but I think you should think
> > very hard wether you want this kind of limitation (a fixed limit)
> > when the overlap is the most important thing, and the problem you try
> > to solve.
> >
> > An application can still prohibit the user from entering whatever if
> > it wants to...

> I don't think the latter option is viable. If application A allows it,
> but application B doesn't, then shipping CPL or calsch elements from A
> to B is going to be very confusing to the user. How would the B user
> change the interval from 4 to 5 hours?

There's always a problem if we impose a requirement on what's allowed
in the protocol and some implementations don't conform to it. I see
little difference between the problems that arise when an implementation
fails to prohibit overlaps and the problems that arise when an implementation
fails to respect a minimum-time-between-occurances restriction.

				Ned

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> 
> There's always a problem if we impose a requirement on what's allowed
> in the protocol and some implementations don't conform to it. I see
> little difference between the problems that arise when an implementation
> fails to prohibit overlaps and the problems that arise when an implementation
> fails to respect a minimum-time-between-occurances restriction.

Agreed; however, if no or hardly any implementations support a
particular feature it is standard IETF practice to dump it (indeed, the
two-interoperable-implementations-rule pretty much requires it). For the
corner cases, I would consider likelihood of interoperability trumping
conciseness in event specification.

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue Mar 20 16:42:08 2001
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Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:56:48 -0600
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ned.freed@mrochek.com wrote:

> > > We thought about that; but a straightforward limit like this is much easier to
> > > explain to a user, and incorporate in a UI.
>
> I don't agree. Part of explaining a limitation is justifying it.

OK, "express" rather than "explain".

> Whereas prohibiting overlap may manifest in a
> more obvious way but seems a lot more natural.

Yes, but it's going to be hard to build the right affordances into the UI to make it
clear what the user can and can't do.

Of course, if Alan's work to come up with an algorithm that can handle overlaps
succeeds, then this becomes moot.

--
/================================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.  |
|Chief Scientist |===============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |"Lollygaggers will be shot on sight!" "I didn't|
|francis@ecal.com|say that!" "I was paraphrasing."               |
\================================================================/






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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Tue Mar 20 16:46:09 2001
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Steve Mansour wrote:

> Bruce_Kahn@iris.com wrote:
>
> > A theatre lists a movie once but it may have overlapping show times.
>
> but they will be in different locations.

...on the other hand, the users don't care about those different locations.

--
/==============================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
|Chief Scientist |=============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |That is correct. I'm out of fuel. My landing |
|francis@ecal.com|gear is jammed. And there's an unhappy bald  |
|                |eagle loose in the cockpit.                  |
\==============================================================/






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Steve Mansour wrote:

> John Stracke wrote:
>
> > We thought about that; but a straightforward limit like this is much easier to
> > explain to a user, and incorporate in a UI.
>
> That is true. But a UI of an application can enforce the 24 hr limit without imposing
> that limit on iCalendar.

Yes and no.  An app which does not let the user create sub-day recurrences may have
trouble understanding sub-day recurrences.

--
/================================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.  |
|Chief Scientist |===============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |"Lollygaggers will be shot on sight!" "I didn't|
|francis@ecal.com|say that!" "I was paraphrasing."               |
\================================================================/






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ned.freed@mrochek.com wrote:

> I see
> little difference between the problems that arise when an implementation
> fails to prohibit overlaps and the problems that arise when an implementation
> fails to respect a minimum-time-between-occurances restriction.

But detecting overlap is harder, so "fails to prohibit overlaps" is a more
likely failure mode.

--
/==============================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
|Chief Scientist |=============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |"The Reality Check's in the mail." --L. Peter|
|francis@ecal.com|Deutsch                                      |
\==============================================================/






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Bruce_Kahn@iris.com wrote:

> Patrik replied:
> > Question: Is not the requirement for O(1) that the interval between
> > events have to be longer than the length of the event itself?
>
> It may be part of the IPTEL but its not part of CALSCH's requirements.

I think we have two reasons calsch needs to do something along these lines.
The first is that we would benefit no less than CPL from an O(1) evaluation of
recurring events.  Even if you expand your recurring events and put all the
instances into the database, it'd be nice to reduce the cost of that
expansion.  Also, at the moment, expanding the instances like that is pretty
much the only feasible strategy; expanding on the fly is impractical.  O(1)
evaluation would open up the field of design alternatives, which would let
people pick the right strategy for their scenario.

However, we may be able to achieve O(1) without banning the sub-day
recurrences.  If so, then we still have the issue of usability; the current
RECUR grammar is extremely complex, far too complex to express in a simple
UI.  This means that we'll get implementations that support only subsets
(there will also be those that use complex UIs, but they'll lose out to the
simple UIs over time); if we don't want to wind up with *different* subsets,
non-interoperable ones, then we'd better pick a single subset *now*.

--
/==============================================================\
|John Stracke    | http://www.ecal.com |My opinions are my own.|
|Chief Scientist |=============================================|
|eCal Corp.      |That is correct. I'm out of fuel. My landing |
|francis@ecal.com|gear is jammed. And there's an unhappy bald  |
|                |eagle loose in the cockpit.                  |
\==============================================================/





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Steve replied:
>> Similar example to Daves:
>> A theatre lists a movie once but it may have overlapping show times.
>
>but they will be in different locations.

They may be in different physical theatres (#1, #13, etc) but the LOCATION
would still be "Westford Local Multiplex at Big Mall" for all showings...

As a movie goer I only care about the building, NOT the room in the
theatre...  (Would not you not go to a movie at a convenient time just
because it was 1 room down from your favorite one??)

Bruce
===========================================================================
Bruce Kahn                                INet: Bruce_Kahn@iris.com
Iris Associates                          Phone: 978.392.5335
Westford, MA, USA 01886                    FAX: and nothing but the FAX...
Standard disclaimers apply, even where prohibited by law...


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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed Mar 21 08:11:07 2001
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 05:10:11 -0800 (PST)

hello,

i need to know if there is any IP-PSTN gateway that is
implemented on either a dialogix telelphony card or on
a rhetorex telephony card....

thanx
aliya

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed Mar 21 10:30:06 2001
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Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:30:35 -0500

The iptel list is not for queries of commercial products. It is for the
ongoing work of the IP telephony working group within IETF. 

-Jonathan R.

---
Jonathan D. Rosenberg                       72 Eagle Rock Ave.
Chief Scientist                             First Floor
dynamicsoft                                 East Hanover, NJ 07936
jdrosen@dynamicsoft.com                     FAX:   (973) 952-5050
http://www.cs.columbia.edu/~jdrosen         PHONE: (973) 952-5000
http://www.dynamicsoft.com
 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: aliya sheikh [mailto:als_sheikh@yahoo.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 8:10 AM
> To: iptel@lists.bell-labs.com
> Subject: [IPTEL] IP-PSTN bridge
> 
> 
> hello,
> 
> i need to know if there is any IP-PSTN gateway that is
> implemented on either a dialogix telelphony card or on
> a rhetorex telephony card....
> 
> thanx
> aliya
> 
> __________________________________________________
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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed Mar 21 16:15:07 2001
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>John Stracke wrote (snipped from a longer note):
However, we may be able to achieve O(1) without banning the sub-day
recurrences.  If so, then we still have the issue of usability; the 
current
RECUR grammar is extremely complex, far too complex to express in a simple
UI.  This means that we'll get implementations that support only subsets
(there will also be those that use complex UIs, but they'll lose out to 
the
simple UIs over time); if we don't want to wind up with *different* 
subsets,
non-interoperable ones, then we'd better pick a single subset *now*.

John, it is looking like the RECUR rules are too complex. That issue keeps 
"recurring".  While you are there as a group in Minn perhaps you can 
recommend a subset that will work as a good starting base.  This will help 
the IPTEL group as well as ours.  Thanks.

--=_alternative 00004C4B85256A16_=
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<br><font size=2 face="sans-serif">&gt;John Stracke wrote (snipped from a longer note):</font>
<br><font size=2><tt>However, we may be able to achieve O(1) without banning the sub-day<br>
recurrences. &nbsp;If so, then we still have the issue of usability; the current<br>
RECUR grammar is extremely complex, far too complex to express in a simple<br>
UI. &nbsp;This means that we'll get implementations that support only subsets<br>
(there will also be those that use complex UIs, but they'll lose out to the<br>
simple UIs over time); if we don't want to wind up with *different* subsets,<br>
non-interoperable ones, then we'd better pick a single subset *now*.</tt></font>
<br>
<br><font size=2><tt>John, it is looking like the RECUR rules are too complex. That issue keeps &quot;recurring&quot;. &nbsp;While you are there as a group in Minn perhaps you can recommend a subset that will work as a good starting base. &nbsp;This will help the IPTEL group as well as ours. &nbsp;Thanks.</tt></font>
<br>
--=_alternative 00004C4B85256A16_=--

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Wed Mar 21 18:28:05 2001
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On Tuesday, March 20 2001, "pregen@egenconsulting.com" wrote to "John Stracke, calsch WG, iptel@lists.bell-labs.com, owner-ietf-calendar@mail.imc.org" saying:

> John, it is looking like the RECUR rules are too complex. That issue keeps 
> "recurring".  While you are there as a group in Minn perhaps you can 
> recommend a subset that will work as a good starting base.  This will help 
> the IPTEL group as well as ours.  Thanks.

(This is an argument I made in the CalSch WG meeting today -- I'm
re-iterating and amplifying on it here for the list.)

The iCalendar RECUR rules, as they stand now, allow all sorts of absurd
recurrences, which are nearly-impossible to describe to users, to represent
as user interfaces, or to evaluate in an efficient manner.

The problem is that there's no clear boundary between the absurd rules and
the useful rules.  Things like "every Tuesday for two days", or "every six
hours" -- which are reasonable, but my subset would eliminate -- verge
seamlessly into things like "every June 23, when it's a Thursday, for eighty
weeks", or "every 7,192,314 seconds".

Thus, if there isn't any way to set up a clear boundary, the only thing that
can be done is to set up an arbitrary boundary instead.  The subset I
created for CPL, and which John and I turned into the post-deadline draft
for iCalendar, picked "one day duration, no rules smaller" as this arbitrary
boundary.  This certainly does eliminate some useful recurrences -- I think
that's clear.  However, I think it maintains 95% of the useful recurrences,
and eliminates all of the agressively pathological recurrences.

Note that the looser version of my subset rule -- "the duration must be
shorter than the shortest time period mentioned in the recurrence" -- would
still forbid a fair number of useful recurrences.  It's looser, though, and
I'd be willing to go with this version, but I'm concerned it's hard to
explain to users.

One big concern a lot of people raised is whether it's legitimate for the
working group to back off of the promises that RFC 2445 made, and break
backward compatibility.  It's not like there's anything *broken* about
RRULE.  If you're willing to invest enough CPU effort, all of the iCalendar
RRULEs are resolvable -- there's nothing Turing-equivalent here.  I'm not
sure how I feel about this.  Would it be possible to move those RRULE parts
that go beyond a subset to an extension of some sort?

I'll send my observations of existing calendaring systems shortly, and
hopefully the CalSch people will be able to expand on them...

-- 
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu


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Here are some observations I made of calendaring programs, last September,
when I was originally creating the RRULE subset that went into CPL.

None of them support sub-day recurrence rules.  Some of them, however,
(notably Outlook) support arbitrarily long rule durations.

(The IPTel people have seen this list before.)

I'd be interested in further observations from CalSch folks, especially
people who've implemented iCalendar COS import/export.

-- 
Jonathan Lennox
lennox@cs.columbia.edu


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Sun cm

Appointment recurrence parameters:
Date
Start time
Stop time
Repeat:
        One Time
        Daily
        Weekly
        Every Two Weeks
        Monthly By Date
        Monthly By Weekday
        Yearly
        Monday through Friday
        Mon, Wed, Fri
        Tue, Thu
        Repeat Every...
                N (days | weeks | months)
For: N (days | weeks | biweeks | months | years)

The stop time can be earlier than the start time -- it asks you if
you want it to continue to the next day.

Time Zone: from /usr/share/lib/zoneinfo/.  In "View" menu, not appointment
setting.


Netcenter WebCalendar

Date
Time (5-minute intervals, 12:00 AM to 11:55 PM)
Duration (5-minute intervals, 0:05 - 12:55)
Repeat:
        * Does not Repeat
        * Repeats (every | every other | every third | every fourth)
                (day | week | month | year | MWF | TuTh | MW | M-F | SaSu)
        * Repeats on the (first | second | third | fourth | last)
                (Su | Mo | Tu | We | Th | Fr | Sa) every month
* No End date, or * End by [date]

Appointments do not carry past midnight -- duration is truncated.

Time Zone: GMT offset only.  In "Calendar Preferences".  Does not seem
to take DST into account?


SDR
How often it takes place: (Once | Daily | Weekly | Every Two Weeks |
        [Monthly By Date] | [Monday through Friday])
        from [Date] at [Time] for (30 minutes | 1 - 12 hours | 1 - 6 days)
Length of this series of sessions:
        (2 - 6 days | 1 week | 8 - 13 days | (2 - 4) weeks)
        [ "Week" parameters only for weekly; "4 weeks" only for biweekly ]

"Monthly by date" and "Monday through Friday" selections are disabled.
Bug list says 'Doesn't handle SDPv2 repeat times with units "M" and "Y"'


Microsoft Outlook

Start time: (Date) (Time) [X] All day event
ENd time: (Date) (Time)
Start - End can be arbitrarily long

Appointment Recurrence
Start:  [Time]    End:  [Time]    Duration: [Interval]
(Remebers dates of parent window, though they cannot be set here)

Recurrence pattern:
* Daily:    * Every [N] day(s)
	    * Every weekday

* Weekly:   Recur every [N] week(s) on:
            [] Su [] Mo [] Tu [] We [] Thu [] Fri [] Sa [] Su

* Monthly:  * Day [N] of every [N] month(s)
            * The (first | second | third | fourth | last) 
               (day | weekday | weekend day | Su - Sa)
               of every [N] month(s)

* Yearly:   * Every (Month) [day]
            * The (first | second | third | fourth | last) (day...) of (month)

Range of recurrence:
Start: [Date]      * No end date
		   * End after: [N] occurences
                   * End by: [Date]


Netscape Calendar

Main tab:
Date, Start Time, end time, duration.  (Duration cannot exceed 24h)

"Repeating..." tab:

Start: [date]
        * Until [date]
        * For [N] (Day(s) | Week(s) | Month(s) | Year(s)

Include: [X] Saturdays [X] Sundays [X] Holidays

Frequency: Daily:
	* Every day
	* Every [N] day(s)

Weekly:
        * Every week
        * Every [N] week(s)
        [Mo] [Tu] [We] [Th] [Fr] [Sa] [Su]

Monthly on date(s):
        * On the [N] of every month
        * On the [1st .. 31st] of every [N] months
                   ^ multi-choice

Monthly on day(s):
* On the (1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, last) (Su - Sa) of every [N] month(s)
         ^ multi-choice


Yearly:
* Every year
* Every [N] year(s)

--1ukQia5G5b--

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Fri Mar 23 17:47:06 2001
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HI,

We're looking for a freelancer/contractor to give us specifications and
do the ip telephony software development gateway/client for us. The
current platform considered is a Natural MicroSystems T1 board running
on Windows 2000 Server; the client needs to run on Windows 98/2000 and
connect to the gateway trough TCP/IP sockets. The gateway will take T1
signalling and route calls via IP to the appropriate client via a lookup
table which maps phone number to the users current ip address (provided
by the user status) where the client listens for incoming calls and
initiates outgoing calls. We're somewhat flexible on the server platform
(Linux ok) and T1 hardware, but not on the client platforms. The gateway
should be able to handle more than one T1s, receive incoming and make
outgoing calls (for connected clients).

If you're interested send email to: endre@infomedium.com or call:
888-IM-4EBIZ.

Endre



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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon Mar 26 03:32:15 2001
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Subject: [IPTEL] CPL syntax
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:30:37 +0200

Dear All,

is the following CPL switch correct? Is it possible to have some kind of
CASE-structure in a switch? If this syntax is wrong, how should this be
written then? 

<string-switch field="organisation">
	<string is="company_A">
		<location url="user@host.com">
			<proxy />
		</location>
	</string>
	<string is="company_B">
		<location url="user@host.com">
			<proxy />
		</location>
	</string>
</string-switch>

Thx,

Geert Van Loy

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From: James Undery <jundery@ubiquity.net>
To: Van Loy Geert <Geert.VanLoy@siemens.atea.be>
Cc: "'iptel@lists.bell-labs.com'" <iptel@lists.bell-labs.com>
Subject: Re: [IPTEL] CPL syntax
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:04:12 +0000 (GMT)

This isn't really the place to discuss this however

On Mon, 26 Mar 2001, Van Loy Geert wrote:

> <string-switch field="organisation">

The american spelling of organisation (organization) should be used.

> 	<string is="company_A">
> 		<location url="user@host.com">
> 			<proxy />
> 		</location>
> 	</string>
> 	<string is="company_B">
> 		<location url="user@host.com">
> 			<proxy />
> 		</location>
> 	</string>
> </string-switch>

James Undery


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Subject: [IPTEL] CPL Adoption
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Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 17:59:01 +0100

Does anybody know just how popular CPL is in the outside world now. I'd be
interested to hear about any companies implementing CPL interpreters.

Thanks  
Gerry   :)

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Mon Mar 26 15:14:07 2001
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From: Henry Sinnreich <henry.sinnreich@wcom.com>
Subject: RE: [IPTEL] CPL Adoption
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Try the web sites of DynamicSoft, Indigo Software, Ubiquity and my apology
for other that I may have missed.

Henry

-----Original Message-----
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[mailto:iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com]On Behalf Of
gerry.simblett@bt.com
Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 10:59 AM
To: iptel@lists.bell-labs.com
Subject: [IPTEL] CPL Adoption


Does anybody know just how popular CPL is in the outside world now. I'd be
interested to hear about any companies implementing CPL interpreters.

Thanks
Gerry   :)

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From iptel-admin@lists.bell-labs.com  Thu Mar 29 14:10:09 2001
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Subject: [IPTEL] TRIP Sequence Numbers
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Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:06:38 -0500
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In section 10.1.4 of draft-ietf-iptel-trip-04.txt it states:

    When an LS first originates a route into its ITAD, it MUST originate
    it with a Sequence Number of MinSequenceNum.

Is the LS required to do this:
    a) when it restarts/reboots, or
    b) when the route is added to its Local-Route database

If (b) is allowed, the situation described in 10.1.6 (where an LS receives a
self-originated route with a seq# larger than what it currently has recorded
for the route) could be avoided. If either (a) or (b) is permitted, I think
section 10.1.4 should say something like "An LS MAY maintain Sequence
Numbers that are persistent across restarts/reboots".

Bob
d:-)

Robert F. Penfield
Chief Software Architect
Acme Packet, Inc.
130 New Boston Street
Woburn, MA 01801
bpenfield@acmepacket.com


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Subject: [IPTEL] Call for participation for ICN01 and Call for Papers for
 ECUMN'02
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Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:22:13 +0200

Dear All,

Please feel free to circulate to interested colleagues:

1. The preliminary program of ICN01 (International Conference on
Networking) (see http://iutsun1.colmar.uha.fr/ICN01.html ) which will be
held at Colmar, France, from Monday July 9, 2001 to Friday July 13, 2001.
If you would like to Chair a session during ICN01, please contact
lorenz@ieee.org

2. The call for papers of ECUMN'02 (see
http://iutsun1.colmar.uha.fr/ECUMN02.html ) scheduled from April 8 to April
10, 2002. The deadline for this CfP is September 1, 2001.

Accept our sincere apologies if you receive multiple copies.



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