From nobody Fri Sep 1 06:57:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietf.org Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 00484132F12; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 06:57:49 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" Subject: Last Call: (Support for adjustable maximum router lifetimes per-link) to Proposed Standard X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.59.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: ipv6@ietf.org, bob.hinden@gmail.com, draft-ietf-6man-maxra@ietf.org, otroan@employees.org, terry.manderson@icann.org, 6man-chairs@ietf.org Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <150427426999.3233.8780042509450627604.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 06:57:49 -0700 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 13:57:50 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the IPv6 Maintenance WG (6man) to consider the following document: - 'Support for adjustable maximum router lifetimes per-link' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2017-09-15. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract The neighbor discovery protocol specifies the maximum time allowed between sending unsolicited multicast Router Advertisements from a router interface as well as the maximum router lifetime. It also allows the limits to be overridden by link-layer specific documents. This document allows for overriding these values on a per-link basis. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-maxra/ IESG discussion can be tracked via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-6man-maxra/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Fri Sep 1 09:39:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4EFA7132D4B for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:39:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f3hwf6ZJVR9d for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 769E5132D57 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:39:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v81GdcCv060829; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:39:39 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.220]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v81GdVdu060798 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:39:31 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-11.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdc::8988:efdc) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:39:30 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 09:39:30 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Brian E Carpenter , Mark Smith CC: 6man WG Subject: RE: ICMPv6 question Thread-Topic: ICMPv6 question Thread-Index: AdMirYG7EwN54XmxT+uCHTYv5GBqHgARiokAAAHhwYAAESES4A== Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 16:39:30 +0000 Message-ID: References: <952aab1a2c824a79b98a3f9d2b3a473a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <862b7558-f0e5-93c9-8d93-b740af0ced6a@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <862b7558-f0e5-93c9-8d93-b740af0ced6a@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 16:39:42 -0000 VGhhbmtzIE1hcmsgYW5kIEJlcnQgZm9yIHRoZSBpbnNpZ2h0cyBhbmQgdGhhbmtzIEJyaWFuIGZv 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PiB0aGVyZSB3ZXJlIG5vIHJlcGx5IHBhY2tldHMuDQo+IA0KPiAgICBCcmlhbg0KPiANCj4gDQoN Cg== From nobody Fri Sep 1 10:02:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1B04813429B for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:01:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.126 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.126 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=0.001, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, NML_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED=1.2, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_SOFTFAIL=0.972] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id crWAeoPICHfs for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (oxalide-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.168.224.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 656A21341ED for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:01:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by oxalide-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id v81H1tx6151704 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:01:55 +0200 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id 2527E206A63 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:01:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from muguet1.intra.cea.fr (muguet1.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.6]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 127B2201729 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:01:55 +0200 (CEST) Received: from [10.8.34.184] (is227335.intra.cea.fr [10.8.34.184]) by muguet1.intra.cea.fr (8.15.2/8.15.2/CEAnet-Intranet-out-1.4) with ESMTP id v81H1sf5010012 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:01:54 +0200 Subject: Re: ICMPv6 question To: ipv6@ietf.org References: <952aab1a2c824a79b98a3f9d2b3a473a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Alexandre Petrescu Message-ID: Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 19:01:54 +0200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <952aab1a2c824a79b98a3f9d2b3a473a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Language: fr Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:01:59 -0000 Le 01/09/2017 à 01:07, Templin, Fred L a écrit : > I have a question. If an IPV6 host with address 2001:db8::f00 assigned to an interface > receives a packet with destination address 2001:db8::baa over that interface, what > should it do? Drop the packet silently, or drop and return an ICMPv6 Destination > Unreachable? Has the router a (default) route via an interface whose name is different than the mbuf->if_name of this packet? If yes send it there. If no drop it and Dst Unreachable. Alex From nobody Fri Sep 1 10:09:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 419271343C9 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:09:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.321 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.321 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZYt16q4IWkDY for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BCA3F13422A for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:09:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v81H943v044029; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:09:04 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.239.221]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v81H8tVj043972 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK); Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:08:55 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-12.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:efdd::8988:efdd) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:08:54 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:08:54 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Alexandre Petrescu , "ipv6@ietf.org" Subject: RE: ICMPv6 question Thread-Topic: ICMPv6 question Thread-Index: AdMirYG7EwN54XmxT+uCHTYv5GBqHgA0S2wAAA5/ulA= Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 17:08:54 +0000 Message-ID: <770efec3c14643599a9a4bf094faf6d0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <952aab1a2c824a79b98a3f9d2b3a473a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; 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([2620:0:10e7:10:447c:38ff:1448:a94e]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p13sm1401110pgs.9.2017.09.01.10.34.05 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 01 Sep 2017 10:34:06 -0700 (PDT) From: james woodyatt Message-Id: <6163BB50-8822-4C10-A48D-7030BD3BD67E@google.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_44C9E48A-9662-441E-AB21-B1A5934C611D" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: ICMPv6 question Date: Fri, 1 Sep 2017 10:34:05 -0700 In-Reply-To: To: Mark Smith , 6man WG References: <952aab1a2c824a79b98a3f9d2b3a473a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 17:34:09 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_44C9E48A-9662-441E-AB21-B1A5934C611D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 On Aug 31, 2017, at 17:26, Mark Smith wrote: >=20 > I was wondering about how this could happen and I think there could be = two possible causes, >=20 > - incorrect ND cache entry for 2001:db8::baa2001:db8::baa [=E2=80=A6] > - host attached to one end of a point-to-point link [=E2=80=A6] A third case, which isn=E2=80=99t an error or failure mode: - transmitter is not yet unaware that receiver has transitioned from = router to host. --james woodyatt > --Apple-Mail=_44C9E48A-9662-441E-AB21-B1A5934C611D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 On Aug 31, 2017, at 17:26, Mark Smith <markzzzsmith@gmail.com> wrote:

I was wondering = about how this could happen and I think there could be two possible = causes,

- incorrect ND = cache entry for 2001:db8::baa2001:db8::baa [=E2=80=A6]
- host attached to one end of a point-to-point = link [=E2=80=A6]

A third case, = which isn=E2=80=99t an error or failure mode:

- transmitter is not yet unaware that receiver has = transitioned from router to host.


--james woodyatt <jhw@google.com>



= --Apple-Mail=_44C9E48A-9662-441E-AB21-B1A5934C611D-- From nobody Fri Sep 1 16:18:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31EE13465E for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 16:18:49 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[PP_MIME_FAKE_ASCII_TEXT=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PwhyqBESFCZi for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 16:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx.ams1.isc.org (mx.ams1.isc.org [199.6.1.65]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A0D601342E6 for ; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 16:18:48 -0700 (PDT) Received: from zmx1.isc.org (zmx1.isc.org [149.20.0.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mx.ams1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 66A6524AE17; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 23:18:37 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmx1.isc.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 021C116009B; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 23:18:44 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A8C16009A; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 23:18:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from zmx1.isc.org ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (zmx1.isc.org [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id pE_dHwgLvvAI; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 23:18:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rock.dv.isc.org (c27-253-115-14.carlnfd2.nsw.optusnet.com.au [27.253.115.14]) by zmx1.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id A326F160050; Fri, 1 Sep 2017 23:18:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from rock.dv.isc.org (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by rock.dv.isc.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC2D83FE9E8; Sat, 2 Sep 2017 09:18:41 +1000 (AEST) To: james woodyatt Cc: Mark Smith , 6man WG From: Mark Andrews References: <952aab1a2c824a79b98a3f9d2b3a473a@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <6163BB50-8822-4C10-A48D-7030BD3BD67E@google.com> Subject: Re: ICMPv6 question In-reply-to: Your message of "Fri, 01 Sep 2017 10:34:05 -0700." <6163BB50-8822-4C10-A48D-7030BD3BD67E@google.com> Date: Sat, 02 Sep 2017 09:18:41 +1000 Message-Id: <20170901231841.1DC2D83FE9E8@rock.dv.isc.org> Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Sep 2017 23:18:49 -0000 In message <6163BB50-8822-4C10-A48D-7030BD3BD67E@google.com>, james woodyatt wr ites: > > On Aug 31, 2017, at 17:26, Mark Smith wrote: > > > > I was wondering about how this could happen and I think there could be > two possible causes, > > > > - incorrect ND cache entry for 2001:db8::baa2001:db8::baa […] > > - host attached to one end of a point-to-point link […] > > A third case, which isn’t an error or failure mode: > > - transmitter is not yet unaware that receiver has transitioned from > router to host. Fourth case, which also isn't a error or failure mode: permiscious mode is turned on in the interface I've needed to do that to get around the limited/broken multicast support at the chip level. Ended up filtering out the packets that should have been dropped by the chip in the firewall. -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: marka@isc.org From nobody Wed Sep 6 12:22:45 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 077A21321D5 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:22:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OdPRIwt49AKa for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from accordion.employees.org (accordion.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 702C81201F8 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:22:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h.hanazo.no (96.51-175-103.customer.lyse.net [51.175.103.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by accordion.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id E13842D4FEA for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 19:22:41 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by h.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id A33F9102BC73D for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 21:22:39 +0200 (CEST) From: Ole Troan Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_246144F8-FBFB-4E94-A5A9-5CA7BA161FF7"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: RFC 4861 missing updated-by Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 21:22:38 +0200 References: <8447.1502388439@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <826ee900-0edf-2bb4-ed35-3824b6ad8bba@gmail.com> <2664CA78-2291-46C7-ACF9-460AA3A51706@gmail.com> <52cae497-9539-3ba3-70b7-0bb55317f986@gmail.com> <12017.1502561028@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <8318F69E-BD7C-404F-9420-0FEA1340936E@employees.org> <4864.1502919481@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <338FC806-C696-44ED-A0C5-4B0B9D1A6F84@tzi.org> <7409.1502937298@obiwan.sandelman.ca> To: 6man WG In-Reply-To: <7409.1502937298@obiwan.sandelman.ca> Message-Id: <68BB141F-6E66-491F-9FDB-D67709585C2F@employees.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2017 19:22:44 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_246144F8-FBFB-4E94-A5A9-5CA7BA161FF7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii To hopefully conclude this thread. When reviewing this issue again, I did notice that we actually do have a = complete registry for router flags: = https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters/icmpv6-parameters.xhtml= #icmpv6-parameters-11 In hindsight one could have argued that perhaps RFC5175 should have = updated RFC4861 when it created the registry. I don't think that issue is big enough to justify any further action on = this topic. Cheers, Ole --Apple-Mail=_246144F8-FBFB-4E94-A5A9-5CA7BA161FF7 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZsEr/AAoJEL7aWKiYQt92LeUP/RrUKZw/9wXMwESbx87VGPnu mj8FeFDXB39rFtPAgaYOVx+ygf1qhen5ZgVq9XFL4pc7850QP853/RXyfYj1lLYZ zotQyJwo+8caMXD4bsO0+/4qO70efVqy0MOnUm884LcKT4ZDRfc9v9wuNHm7xR9P j0sZcayLM9gLYaos229fPlBNlvESZ9L5U9iWdO7UkBXKQmVYdvX/P+DBouG6lWo2 V/5r/aAUJRqbe3n8WPPpV8vGZkEftWPeN67/Y5WFxR86Kr/39sVfh7pkLhX2B1BF OHRdVcuQr3zy9p/25h+eETi2mWm8XTs+g9xqmPVXvRV/erxA5P4Bo5xoyPGFnxVr C8sC+yxRG0RiwqfXDWFKhjYq3xOglEqTYiBedGj0gPIm3Z3TMssSO6oLCo3+aHjv Y3F6xAVsZqNdMpy2UOKWvqSiWvTZ2DDMU29h1g7+ul0LykdjtI+dfNQkBZM8lTs+ sK1dCLTbHxrRfY/0Ei9+axtd4f4EMeD0DWIIkjdBo82JgQIYm14G2vHHAA+kwyxf B3mucPrqGyBeMDlM98OVCjETrNdfeNpg1jP1bnUd8fFgkmVGtvdcV/C2YlyqUxzw OaWljJQnoIy34B222CUi7WdMZ9IptkdmkTAkwxgywsPxZ45ZqRqv7V4cvuVoBqkt Fdnr+rqub1lZL9/2yE5d =tOt6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_246144F8-FBFB-4E94-A5A9-5CA7BA161FF7-- From nobody Wed Sep 6 12:59:27 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9ACBC126B71 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:59:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.301 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.301 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KdjtQ38CaCqm for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (ipv6.swm.pp.se [IPv6:2a00:801::f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4D282124E15 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 12:59:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 67762B1; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 21:59:23 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1504727963; bh=ZJZYupU3MA+q7SLKXPOpIf9Znry2hGrK1AZSfm89YlI=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=kst++MqthmdUOnVdaEDpongSPRuza1/hnJWd8IXBWSiZpBfHbsIJd0gXy4MPcc8yY trIZ66xA16W87AlTTuE50nt6mz/IycScXi2eCE0/4enjVOTN+rSOoGS/mBVE0tW72D Io6+PvG2GCfw+gwo4zgPwb9KanqkY0rfytjGzgcs= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65352AF; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 21:59:23 +0200 (CEST) Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 21:59:23 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Ole Troan cc: 6man WG Subject: Re: RFC 4861 missing updated-by In-Reply-To: <68BB141F-6E66-491F-9FDB-D67709585C2F@employees.org> Message-ID: References: <8447.1502388439@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <826ee900-0edf-2bb4-ed35-3824b6ad8bba@gmail.com> <2664CA78-2291-46C7-ACF9-460AA3A51706@gmail.com> <52cae497-9539-3ba3-70b7-0bb55317f986@gmail.com> <12017.1502561028@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <8318F69E-BD7C-404F-9420-0FEA1340936E@employees.org> <4864.1502919481@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <338FC806-C696-44ED-A0C5-4B0B9D1A6F84@tzi.org> <7409.1502937298@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <68BB141F-6E66-491F-9FDB-D67709585C2F@employees.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2017 19:59:26 -0000 On Wed, 6 Sep 2017, Ole Troan wrote: > To hopefully conclude this thread. > When reviewing this issue again, I did notice that we actually do have a complete registry for router flags: > > https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters/icmpv6-parameters.xhtml#icmpv6-parameters-11 > > In hindsight one could have argued that perhaps RFC5175 should have updated RFC4861 when it created the registry. > I don't think that issue is big enough to justify any further action on this topic. I can't find PIO flags registry in there. https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-pioxfolks-6man-pio-exclusive-bit-02.html#rfc.section.5 Where is the registry where L, A, R for PIO is done? RFC4861 defines L and A flags. RFC5175 adds R flag. I can't find 5175 mentioned anywhere relevant in the link you sent. The link you sent points to RA bits, not PIO bits. -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Wed Sep 6 13:03:43 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 41591124E15 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 13:03:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2dgOKpQCY30B for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 13:03:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from accordion.employees.org (accordion.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E86D71329B5 for ; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 13:03:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h.hanazo.no (96.51-175-103.customer.lyse.net [51.175.103.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by accordion.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 16D4A2D4FEA; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 20:03:38 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by h.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 404E7102C7619; Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:03:36 +0200 (CEST) From: Ole Troan Message-Id: <54FCEE43-5476-44FF-85CF-5073808F438F@employees.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_D6156C43-B22F-4A02-8781-BA0269489D2B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: RFC 4861 missing updated-by Date: Wed, 6 Sep 2017 22:03:35 +0200 In-Reply-To: Cc: 6man WG To: Mikael Abrahamsson References: <8447.1502388439@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <826ee900-0edf-2bb4-ed35-3824b6ad8bba@gmail.com> <2664CA78-2291-46C7-ACF9-460AA3A51706@gmail.com> <52cae497-9539-3ba3-70b7-0bb55317f986@gmail.com> <12017.1502561028@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <8318F69E-BD7C-404F-9420-0FEA1340936E@employees.org> <4864.1502919481@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <338FC806-C696-44ED-A0C5-4B0B9D1A6F84@tzi.org> <7409.1502937298@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <68BB141F-6E66-491F-9FDB-D67709585C2F@employees.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 Sep 2017 20:03:42 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_D6156C43-B22F-4A02-8781-BA0269489D2B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mikael, >> To hopefully conclude this thread. >> When reviewing this issue again, I did notice that we actually do = have a complete registry for router flags: >>=20 >> = https://www.iana.org/assignments/icmpv6-parameters/icmpv6-parameters.xhtml= #icmpv6-parameters-11 >>=20 >> In hindsight one could have argued that perhaps RFC5175 should have = updated RFC4861 when it created the registry. >> I don't think that issue is big enough to justify any further action = on this topic. >=20 > I can't find PIO flags registry in there. >=20 > = https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-pioxfolks-6man-pio-exclusive-bit-02.html#r= fc.section.5 >=20 > Where is the registry where L, A, R for PIO is done? >=20 > RFC4861 defines L and A flags. > RFC5175 adds R flag. >=20 > I can't find 5175 mentioned anywhere relevant in the link you sent. = The link you sent points to RA bits, not PIO bits. That's what you get for taking a break from this thread. I did think it was a little strange it hadn't been pointed out before. = :-) Oh well, let's write a short document creating the new registry then... Ole --Apple-Mail=_D6156C43-B22F-4A02-8781-BA0269489D2B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZsFSYAAoJEL7aWKiYQt92wTQQAI80+6GShRVdmJtJEUyOw++X mCsZUrIaaSOP1XKt7EPZ8PWjoMNQLzS6Auz2Vz9Cod79wyZIRvQxU4J4HRFZfzHd YA2XAHFmkdBFpMpTcOBF1R/rVVaZOTxSIHPPk9XT6sBe9sh43ITyRBCnifcXOq4U VHrn+tN0pEnXox4KmYDmG8er0NeiCG7RVIANcIafzItbWGZWQmBzIRy5LshJBzj4 GNCzBG6FZnU8D/ehBvQK3O9t28aQkJrkpibd8otAGWfgPsfHw4TmMIjLs9SDqv5z y4akYkn6u2PaYpr118LVM0Eb/x0ZLPjE3nI0G7wfR1w3PGxXAOz6nVZD5h0Esd/G o/Q/jY7hWGSwJzzLROSbpksxLkKUm2NaLCZO69BfwUx6l3wFSeBA12hBYi6GwzE5 i4nOYOhCS2pBKfntk403kBH8Ouk65DxZkhJojGlIQNq8YwUYaQfC86lzvC+wQ4iZ eC4S5rwk2B62HJh2TbD1mnbgNUy+wQVyiy+dV9fAaEoXIyV3I1z+Cmp/Bo0LuwLE 8RBhRrtfwUT8rswRK17ZbeX+iYiPdDb82k6cwM5PZbkRaFxDc8qCh3ZrPal7gDo/ cI/x/g92jjdcICObydclzCVRNG0E99cjk4nznoQ5WUOayuvK6cAZz4uYG/b9DdiP OcRIQz1kXJYmziPc/zPZ =qVO6 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_D6156C43-B22F-4A02-8781-BA0269489D2B-- From nobody Thu Sep 7 00:51:12 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7F65132EC1 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 00:51:10 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Maz1eQrcKc_3 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 00:51:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from accordion.employees.org (accordion.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4E5EF132EBC for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 00:51:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h.hanazo.no (96.51-175-103.customer.lyse.net [51.175.103.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by accordion.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B831F2D4F9E; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 07:51:03 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by h.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 04B241030B683; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:51:00 +0200 (CEST) From: Ole Troan Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_43D3162E-810A-4F6E-8E63-3DAE3804A89B"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: RFC 4861 missing updated-by Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 09:50:59 +0200 In-Reply-To: <54FCEE43-5476-44FF-85CF-5073808F438F@employees.org> Cc: 6man WG To: Mikael Abrahamsson References: <8447.1502388439@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <826ee900-0edf-2bb4-ed35-3824b6ad8bba@gmail.com> <2664CA78-2291-46C7-ACF9-460AA3A51706@gmail.com> <52cae497-9539-3ba3-70b7-0bb55317f986@gmail.com> <12017.1502561028@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <8318F69E-BD7C-404F-9420-0FEA1340936E@employees.org> <4864.1502919481@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <338FC806-C696-44ED-A0C5-4B0B9D1A6F84@tzi.org> <7409.1502937298@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <68BB141F-6E66-491F-9FDB-D67709585C2F@employees.org> <54FCEE43-5476-44FF-85CF-5073808F438F@employees.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 07:51:11 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_43D3162E-810A-4F6E-8E63-3DAE3804A89B Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > Oh well, let's write a short document creating the new registry = then... Done. A new version of I-D, draft-troan-6man-ndpioiana-00.txt has been successfully submitted by Ole Troan and posted to the IETF repository. Name: draft-troan-6man-ndpioiana Revision: 00 Title: IPv6 ND PIO Flags IANA considerations Document date: 2017-09-07 Group: Individual Submission Pages: 4 URL: = https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-troan-6man-ndpioiana-00.txt Status: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-troan-6man-ndpioiana/ Htmlized: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-troan-6man-ndpioiana-00 Htmlized: = https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-troan-6man-ndpioiana-00 Abstract: The Prefix Information Option in the IPv6 Neighbor Discovery Router Advertisement defines an 8-bit flag field with two flags defined and the remaining 6 bits reservered (Reserved1). RFC 6275 has defined a new flag from this field without creating a IANA registry or updating RFC 4861. The purpose of this document is to request IANA to create a new registry for the PIO flags to avoid potential conflict in the use of these flags. Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of = submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. The IETF Secretariat Ole --Apple-Mail=_43D3162E-810A-4F6E-8E63-3DAE3804A89B Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZsPpjAAoJEL7aWKiYQt9240AP/R+0640WdfVCM0lMzGrRzY3b 6Gsl9usHYFCtR8kmcsMiAdYHv/YB2ufbfzHW8Gg6at04CWOoWspI5uexrpbtX03r kw2ACwxeNUAcS/ODa5M9X0gBt0XqOoLrZv1JAZ1p4jh1WiRPpPXLuiCy7YQjDQeV VwvfjzCyfPX1da9sfO8PLao39You9qOTPLfa+c6OiaeTztQGpMhX/thDCDRaRvIa Sx6oShmZx+UVUpnJH6fFHtDX6jEpeVB7tKYEpG3PcMkwKkPZ3Zza/vgO9frcKaFE 1/1SAfGNoYBWk/a13mWS1ehxaskGp6EbQcFlhkt/+yubbZmWg8F/km/mvXAqzc/U n7f3HEkK+StlvUreZT7Na46GpIuBgU3GiaHr+eU1NMdFsYghjA2BCwhcmiIeFM4O d9Ksrn+mWmH3LZ98vqXT/6H8wc1zGoWv5C/REAru4h7HlmH9zLCH7abBxH+CXkYC 0oPZaJmd3XXpt7vYELIM/sFLrmmWS/QnnCze2rmwJ2DtCoTjG/6cxFg3+Ydl+LmQ cWQt/GWHVds/kRWffFEjLk9QCQiHgxptqMbiltGvC0md0gSu80jZi/u/hX5v6eph aYmcfDrHFmtl5K7h1EzVsGf0yqPtrmc6Sm1lGFRLJrvFmLROkNk4K49SeqpmAlnd WHGAxJrB+JzbSNHlb2Qh =KB8K -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_43D3162E-810A-4F6E-8E63-3DAE3804A89B-- From nobody Thu Sep 7 01:00:26 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5483E132EC7 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 01:00:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id buP-c3V49Npl for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 01:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6D320132339 for ; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 01:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 7F09CB1; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:00:17 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1504771217; bh=85RAwZrw3/BC5KWWQzCKeaSxXM8m917YuXUQsH49A8E=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=HM5gXf2DJG24g6Tn7iKFKTRNSYqfnmKsBrYjobHLJZzKtEwfysXbkEXb+gD5KaWtV 6A+FHcI/1nEibV5D8wDMT+GFQOL4pyFJrOvREd6u+8Y05NByXw7JLiuM3ZLmMmkCBX aPK/J83ax31gMoVVfezZYAAbe9HOBrnP3wtE8LzE= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C36FAF; Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:00:17 +0200 (CEST) Date: Thu, 7 Sep 2017 10:00:17 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Ole Troan cc: 6man WG Subject: Re: RFC 4861 missing updated-by In-Reply-To: Message-ID: References: <8447.1502388439@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <826ee900-0edf-2bb4-ed35-3824b6ad8bba@gmail.com> <2664CA78-2291-46C7-ACF9-460AA3A51706@gmail.com> <52cae497-9539-3ba3-70b7-0bb55317f986@gmail.com> <12017.1502561028@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <8318F69E-BD7C-404F-9420-0FEA1340936E@employees.org> <4864.1502919481@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <338FC806-C696-44ED-A0C5-4B0B9D1A6F84@tzi.org> <7409.1502937298@obiwan.sandelman.ca> <68BB141F-6E66-491F-9FDB-D67709585C2F@employees.org> <54FCEE43-5476-44FF-85CF-5073808F438F@employees.org> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Sep 2017 08:00:25 -0000 On Thu, 7 Sep 2017, Ole Troan wrote: >> Oh well, let's write a short document creating the new registry then... > > Done. Thanks! Exactly what I wanted. Now that we have a template, does anyone know of any other bit fields that are in the same situation? -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Thu Sep 14 09:17:30 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietf.org Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2693A133045; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:16:59 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Rich Salz To: Cc: draft-ietf-6man-maxra.all@ietf.org, ipv6@ietf.org, ietf@ietf.org Subject: Secdir last call review of draft-ietf-6man-maxra-03 X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.61.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <150540581910.12546.16775859991578068994@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 09:16:59 -0700 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Sep 2017 16:16:59 -0000 Reviewer: Rich Salz Review result: Has Nits I reviewed this document for SECDIR. It's ready. I have one minor editorial suggestion. The introduction has this text: There are already link technology specific clarifications how to tune protocol constants for certain system with the expectation to reduce excess Neighbor Discovery Protocol (NDP) traffic. 3GPP cellular links are one existing example [RFC6459][RFC7066]. I would suggest rewording it like this: Clarifications for how to tune protocol constants to reduce Neighbord Discover Protocol (NDP) traffic already exist; for example [RFC6459] and ]RFC7066] for 3GPP. From nobody Thu Sep 14 22:29:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0BBE132335; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:29:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.699 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.699 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dQzsVzIYBUBq; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:29:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-io0-x22a.google.com (mail-io0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c06::22a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B0A3132403; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:29:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-io0-x22a.google.com with SMTP id e189so5835323ioa.4; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:29:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:references:from:organization:to:cc:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=sK7t5Egrc3KpjkmV0/GpnnykRdTdAZ2E4kmkAEg0rXY=; b=N+X7N8N63GnwiXSr7TVuuVb6dS4L/VGis52TZBd+2+6gm1SRHneah76bzQu1mxolLT yf918stJY9QRb5ZGDT7CAZjSEHadSJF7QiLD6THYUlmErRcjUQnvNVDXQtUrQ9PC7vkl 9N0huYnKBOLrTqmHBp0JGGfcubNFrvjGDKC2e+/WgoubqBsiYI1GY7Y0WQs299rzBvJu F6YpRBu14NG3h/Vv7XrOHNUeckKjUD8W2IWtLMIFPrt+nXxlQUhElrd8HYDF/fLzYcm2 si4uAqY6tVMfYzcNnNSKZ+daEEyId39rXov2OIyAN/MgALtCv5rWtoSduUnnP5Q+WZOz romQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:references:from:organization:to:cc :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sK7t5Egrc3KpjkmV0/GpnnykRdTdAZ2E4kmkAEg0rXY=; b=cQiii8Nh7DFmQBazKNAQ5QV+Dh+krbVRtAI0xL/J9bhXNmQCuRV7Mwo+e01FiEZTZl yTLOioZbGCjBd3itGMkh88V7SgxyLZg5goVXAmjkNI3cgWG7k4dMiqP85hEe6WN+kI82 rz5bPSKz4lmQ0SKR+s1ShQPAuFtvCqhVMeo0jvs54FCG4iE643Y9ybTL5tp5OcRbtIPM X6NKj9z3WMJdeuG3swEmIjmTTZZahCsTSATdIt+JsanTm6Yy2f2q39rQBJZc9giKBjAn pHAdhgNLDvW/MJIcrSV6Ii8ehQ5A4ydO4pTPbGPA4APVEe002C3riuFoik3UI+/pO4N3 FUmQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhyB9srKQE2m/kRXJd8rbsz+RIcJRDi1MU5LpXfHq80UqViI12V ziUwLxndoJHtkEjT X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QAtVwjpE/We5oprhNuXVNZXZx6fE+qFd8pK4qibeWIQCu9JguOccNupnKZbqTH+MMWlbinBgw== X-Received: by 10.107.180.216 with SMTP id d207mr7141750iof.275.1505453357392; Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:29:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id k9sm48863iok.17.2017.09.14.22.29.15 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 14 Sep 2017 22:29:16 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00.txt References: <150523432567.17956.11322312258310497482@ietfa.amsl.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland To: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing@ietf.org Cc: 6man Message-ID: <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 17:29:22 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <150523432567.17956.11322312258310497482@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 05:29:24 -0000 Hello, Re https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00 "One of the goals of IPv6 was to have a sufficiently long address to allow grouping in fields to simplify routing decisions." What makes you believe that? I don't recall such a goal in the IPng process, and I can't see any trace of it in RFC1752 or RFC1726. I do find some rather different considerations in RFC1726: > 5.1 Scale > > CRITERION > The IPng Protocol must scale to allow the identification and > addressing of at least 10**12 end systems (and preferably much > more). The IPng Protocol, and its associated routing protocols > and architecture must allow for at least 10**9 individual networks > (and preferably more). The routing schemes must scale at a rate > that is less than the square root of the number of constituent > networks which means that routing via a binary tree of addresses was not considered OK. ... > 5.2 Topological Flexibility > > CRITERION > The routing architecture and protocols of IPng must allow for many > different network topologies. The routing architecture and > protocols must not assume that the network's physical structure is > a tree. ditto. So regardless of where we are today, I believe your assertion quoted above is not true. In fact the exact opposite was the case when IPv6 was designed. Now, if I ignore the stranger aspects of your proposal, you are proposing to subnet a /64 using something like a binary tree. It might even work, at the price of replacing a great deal of existing software and hardware. However, is there really a need for cut-through routing in sensor networks, which seems to be your target scenario? Regards Brian Carpenter From nobody Fri Sep 15 00:49:34 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EEB9313304E; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:49:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UouWSgNMJI-2; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wr0-x244.google.com (mail-wr0-x244.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:400c:c0c::244]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2D38A13304A; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:49:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wr0-x244.google.com with SMTP id b9so826128wra.0; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:49:31 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date:in-reply-to:cc:to :references; bh=UykEADbTV0rurswca3ugHG3xm9/qcXv2UJ4g1k9/MJk=; b=jogD5Kkaxs5RIkXSixI+qSQxOZtGEdi6B64Fx7oG79oFA2Ki2Ww/fqMgaef2B0eRSx JpSSF3UHy5YDf5csTnzpfU1AEBnj8TZcwP0eHZYkJMCngNCIXuhHJMjHpqYurIhJC8/p VnUh9Yn4BPPjlLLWaZf9bidvohrPtaQcU1KdKQFm4ZBgsaAG11jDqXmMX6PSj2hNtcGx +wdliy8zROa2aR9j6XziTfG6o9W2Lqg+BAvW57/PqXAjc+XLY+5sqjYH0YLf4KqUKFzR 1Uq0OO/pThZ/62/s85Uah1XiJLv6+hoASrWiT37SmELoy2vb4k1VVrAGLiQOXkI5MzZX QAXg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:from:message-id:mime-version:subject:date :in-reply-to:cc:to:references; bh=UykEADbTV0rurswca3ugHG3xm9/qcXv2UJ4g1k9/MJk=; b=pFtTr89qlMzbJ21/Y+kBv0OMJh1SDwCDvL6B0vgyhfzzVAE+4ALjIGRBSd+I/1S5mZ Opjzi5o5LmDxfO7p/tQuiBmb04JZJ8PFCnYuzwV5LotCiAcd9Y/kMrKt/OKBWXlRFg0S AL+5fSNeWSSYjtexFOKAMTTrxOP5qCFR+9U1Dfo1I+yPKxoLtcCIQ5krdieGfJx7m9mX knca9/iWG0axPI5Ps1qd/C6BcTzUzQywFCnHNwKW7Lc1CJk23pEw7bQGow1gOXA06ypY wked8RKe8I1CWzjw3zknttdogJ5kAgN7K6VlYSG2vKjzLZ+gS2k32B+D8nFyfCg6DgiD 0Hfg== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUhKljQn8LpgOcaNdz+PrdLzGd7dkNT/RjvFvUBbCYSxhUSGqf4t 9CSrBlm0vxQjow== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb5dVZWkIu+zOARULMXSXO5m3Fq4y3varFGyvo+yHp5Wjpg9IaI8C76AJNzZx1V0PYwyLMyK+Q== X-Received: by 10.223.142.172 with SMTP id q41mr22453983wrb.106.1505461769637; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:49:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [172.17.138.212] ([91.93.38.124]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id t68sm649040wme.15.2017.09.15.00.49.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:49:28 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <02A7A7C1-E176-44A6-8CAA-E471B87163BF@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_C81E8FBF-CDA3-4095-8E8C-75BC249CBDC6"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 10:49:24 +0300 In-Reply-To: <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing@ietf.org, IPv6 List To: Brian Carpenter References: <150523432567.17956.11322312258310497482@ietfa.amsl.com> <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 07:49:33 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_C81E8FBF-CDA3-4095-8E8C-75BC249CBDC6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Brian, > On Sep 15, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Brian E Carpenter = wrote: >=20 > Hello, >=20 > Re https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00 >=20 > "One of the goals of IPv6 was to have a sufficiently long address > to allow grouping in fields to simplify routing decisions." >=20 > What makes you believe that? I don't recall such a goal in the IPng > process, and I can't see any trace of it in RFC1752 or RFC1726. I agree, I don=E2=80=99t remember anything like the goal written above. Bob >=20 > I do find some rather different considerations in RFC1726: >=20 >> 5.1 Scale >>=20 >> CRITERION >> The IPng Protocol must scale to allow the identification and >> addressing of at least 10**12 end systems (and preferably much >> more). The IPng Protocol, and its associated routing protocols >> and architecture must allow for at least 10**9 individual = networks >> (and preferably more). The routing schemes must scale at a rate >> that is less than the square root of the number of constituent >> networks >=20 > which means that routing via a binary tree of addresses was not > considered OK. >=20 > ... >> 5.2 Topological Flexibility >>=20 >> CRITERION >> The routing architecture and protocols of IPng must allow for = many >> different network topologies. The routing architecture and >> protocols must not assume that the network's physical structure = is >> a tree. >=20 > ditto. >=20 > So regardless of where we are today, I believe your assertion quoted > above is not true. In fact the exact opposite was the case when IPv6 > was designed. >=20 > Now, if I ignore the stranger aspects of your proposal, you are > proposing to subnet a /64 using something like a binary tree. It might > even work, at the price of replacing a great deal of existing software > and hardware. However, is there really a need for cut-through routing > in sensor networks, which seems to be your target scenario? >=20 > Regards > Brian Carpenter >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_C81E8FBF-CDA3-4095-8E8C-75BC249CBDC6 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZu4YFAAoJEK7rdBF357uoAE8IALoubasJXcSSEmSrUFOfeosT zVJ8PjgNIywcFykHfnRHhOrwB0xGrNS2rs0rSpOU66eqs/xCK4UsaR57V5AROxot 6Mt4Xn8xNBpOoA27HGYf0NPSO2O8YfjPLl+Lf5Owx6MOtPcz0ybcOtQ2cyZojftX 6MsmBfrNE931a+kr/uv8Fw7R2fV/8bzZ8DHDV+M4VDXiAmTKVK+oWyEH6koeYlSp PvO4HCQH03bSRfO9SQKqm4YDcSo+MnWsXGzDDHR7tUXwd1epEw8bAWP9YI9GBpJ0 uqjHkXUsV6LdoDDnx8kQ/Ald5px6VxwJwHjkuIlVVW0Q7VA2EJFgPY83WisLuIw= =yb5I -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_C81E8FBF-CDA3-4095-8E8C-75BC249CBDC6-- From nobody Fri Sep 15 00:56:58 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 03E4013304B; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:56:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.3 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.3 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=swm.pp.se Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3IQ7l1xT5k01; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:56:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from uplift.swm.pp.se (swm.pp.se [212.247.200.143]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EDB1D13304A; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 00:56:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix, from userid 501) id 9D09AB6; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:56:52 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=swm.pp.se; s=mail; t=1505462212; bh=Ss99ODra6OO30aJ8/iKwphRLQBI8cncrkCvdremssUU=; h=Date:From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:From; b=mI2jYVrtbs4IXpN8AEoS5ry4/Y8+4bXxvxb1mr4hJ9cNli7tm0uisvT+Gc/mVSsG2 DdRtoNFxnZVhYtFM1Wf7GsC74r16hxeUFuC42NMNL3tLY05M11GPifF5qChsWHXcRG WSx9JkoHgls2tVGbWWCiUmrnk5gcUJo7N4tvXlVE= Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by uplift.swm.pp.se (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85CDDB5; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:56:52 +0200 (CEST) Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 09:56:52 +0200 (CEST) From: Mikael Abrahamsson To: Brian E Carpenter cc: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing@ietf.org, 6man Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00.txt In-Reply-To: <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> Message-ID: References: <150523432567.17956.11322312258310497482@ietfa.amsl.com> <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> User-Agent: Alpine 2.20 (DEB 67 2015-01-07) Organization: People's Front Against WWW MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 07:56:57 -0000 On Fri, 15 Sep 2017, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > "One of the goals of IPv6 was to have a sufficiently long address to > allow grouping in fields to simplify routing decisions." Well, it's certainly used that way. If you go to an RIR you can ask for a lot more address-space than you can in IPv4 "to simplify routing". So if I say "this device only sends /50 to the network, it has 48 ports, each port gets /56, that means I am never using a /52 out of this /50", then that's typically fine. https://www.ripe.net/publications/docs/ripe-552#3 "3.4. Aggregation Wherever possible, address space should be distributed in a hierarchical manner, according to the topology of network infrastructure. This is necessary to permit the aggregation of routing information by ISPs and to limit the expansion of Internet routing tables. This goal is particularly important in IPv6 addressing, where the size of the total address pool creates significant implications for both internal and external routing. IPv6 address policies should seek to avoid fragmentation of address ranges. Further, RIRs should apply practices that maximise the potential for subsequent allocations to be made contiguous with past allocations currently held. However, there can be no guarantee of contiguous allocation." -- Mikael Abrahamsson email: swmike@swm.pp.se From nobody Fri Sep 15 01:10:51 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0C1D133056; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 01:10:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cr15APOwXfWL; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 01:10:46 -0700 (PDT) Received: from accordion.employees.org (accordion.employees.org [198.137.202.74]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D9B32132F2E; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 01:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from h.hanazo.no (96.51-175-103.customer.lyse.net [51.175.103.96]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by accordion.employees.org (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id ACD5A2D4FD0; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:10:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by h.hanazo.no (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01DF310810FDF; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 10:10:40 +0200 (CEST) From: Ole Troan Message-Id: <3F17FC48-D8CB-46A4-A8B3-0BC7F65E6D26@employees.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3F2B221A-5113-4028-844B-DB9E22506984"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00.txt Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 10:10:39 +0200 In-Reply-To: <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> Cc: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing@ietf.org, 6man WG To: Brian E Carpenter References: <150523432567.17956.11322312258310497482@ietfa.amsl.com> <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 08:10:49 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3F2B221A-5113-4028-844B-DB9E22506984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > Re https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00 >=20 > "One of the goals of IPv6 was to have a sufficiently long address > to allow grouping in fields to simplify routing decisions." >=20 > What makes you believe that? I don't recall such a goal in the IPng > process, and I can't see any trace of it in RFC1752 or RFC1726. =E2=80=9CAddressing can follow topology or topology can follow = addressing; choose one=E2=80=9D - Y Rekhter Goal or no goal, we know of no other way to make the routing system = scale. Ole --Apple-Mail=_3F2B221A-5113-4028-844B-DB9E22506984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQIcBAEBCgAGBQJZu4sAAAoJEL7aWKiYQt92fOoP/1/p5u9n4tYMFX7IRJQg8A1f 6kLHKHGBygMzbs72Goe+n9NXIjj+t/Rn9DU/aFVOn3ZFLS1l8xAJUoxsC90LBuLZ 26NYTXsrqQXmxHOHRTZoJrF2h4ywXm+VOFi8G/u/a/vtdqG869X1ou2buWxJNdls S/kaZ/T75jEQDX2yOHH3oGoKKuyEQGcW7m2pLvEK5Lpsf9/tgX9gISJawZ2Pxjus Ccs2Oo6SEdhhBy6Q/59EJPvYikKuK/GYpfyjjfy6l55nCUG+QekBS13TLrgKIsdv PxBDud2cRiWaKD98QhPRedYwEwdDb07IiooxHju3R4smoT8iUL0+gDc7WHacQSST 7Nylu0s33JOO7D5XQSFYgiBJC9JGG5NZKnFjDCfoOoy/YD8knpg0bPDbuKUKSOC/ U3+a2RF4Dwt6e2VK78KTd33FEa2l6a1XHYnaFgsbluvASG5Tgjskt0Zy/MOmrosV 8c6Md7lYcFqRIB6oXwGFPMkLu/bc8sabpoL5eWzIWmpG2BiXcJzrlGD3QPKvi1To owgdsx9BXZPd2yUVvfTHtaYX287VsoT7V24KNTxfKWwcjUW2RrpqkL1241Sn+L28 piqElbwhamad11leybpNX3ay/HzhLOSL0RaI+MViCY1u5jhjyQ+Q4w35QEjZb/Pi HIVoUaYd/myTVYv/4Rql =U/5T -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_3F2B221A-5113-4028-844B-DB9E22506984-- From nobody Fri Sep 15 16:31:44 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E02132193; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:31:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FgiD4hY0lbNW; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-pg0-x22f.google.com (mail-pg0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0D7EE129A89; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:31:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-pg0-x22f.google.com with SMTP id i130so2318815pgc.3; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:31:40 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=subject:to:cc:references:from:organization:message-id:date :user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to:content-language :content-transfer-encoding; bh=uFDf1jW8pQeFcBkrswb0VT1CBinLXeqIhu2dkkFrYlQ=; b=omP1CMALqI25MMItD7YvG1GiDUlU0V3b7NJGbkRo2Ebe0LFa39DM7TpT98OOESfBJS ElVhO1Fcj5BBvLCcDiXEZPFoJlFeENThW4k5fnuL38+UFm9HnO5gHUYQI0CKr3kCi23O GRK7y8OSgTtH5lUksHZbiHCRWGNHp2+VSIOu6voZQer+kfbvdMfHDOaMTFp8iCAZSNlO 0yb5kKmAlxkPEjKQhQgigSwEbeT5z/YTeGzPz9mO4UqUgWHB6ls3xyAAffb8PLxekgue 83XfpCRmRHvJe312t5Bu6y99p4Y6F1paz3g46yjZszPkWOtztAu8SnZDh9VLahajuqqp N+oA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:to:cc:references:from:organization :message-id:date:user-agent:mime-version:in-reply-to :content-language:content-transfer-encoding; bh=uFDf1jW8pQeFcBkrswb0VT1CBinLXeqIhu2dkkFrYlQ=; b=HqfLEdD9orfbMPK+rZ4s8onSKWDm+Vza8/5Fv1gwG+YuvhTGqHuIQ4w92CJGiRGDWq Pfwxv0scEvJBkevUBPzMlcKd/z6+L7jac+Y9MSS1vj3z8m7sI1UV8NyEqAxLggYForcn sLr7qTXLM4zWkTYFbuJP9IhlDeWdEtgB5i6V6+xm7nsSs7YTTtg0pw0H712TPu1CzHQ7 W72LmoClfs7eAzeLoIktWS5YN5jg00FPRMhv4SOUrgkB8FGFheVgTF7ZECc/ufWxaZv8 6E4hOrguQ7sosPEIQwEMRXFmCAX3eTlaG08mJm6Cws80oNZwnjtKW+8a+ezAF08f8GpL 1gDA== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUifq/B4U09hSJjV/X8ddJ3MZoLoR3GHeIU7Nxrg/p/yW/d8EgZ4 f3JrPgmJabwXf+FH X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7+1x8eOBl1mYbRQrpkkU13m4MS4xw1FDBypDi3gEAuEvGlVMOiL/bZX+Mr79sf/jprZrc9og== X-Received: by 10.84.129.193 with SMTP id b59mr30160987plb.108.1505518299234; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:31:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ?IPv6:2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781? ([2406:e007:57a7:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id d124sm3989408pfc.42.2017.09.15.16.31.36 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Fri, 15 Sep 2017 16:31:38 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00.txt To: Ole Troan Cc: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing@ietf.org, 6man WG References: <150523432567.17956.11322312258310497482@ietfa.amsl.com> <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> <3F17FC48-D8CB-46A4-A8B3-0BC7F65E6D26@employees.org> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 11:31:45 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: <3F17FC48-D8CB-46A4-A8B3-0BC7F65E6D26@employees.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Sep 2017 23:31:42 -0000 On 15/09/2017 20:10, Ole Troan wrote: >> Re https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00 >> >> "One of the goals of IPv6 was to have a sufficiently long address >> to allow grouping in fields to simplify routing decisions." >> >> What makes you believe that? I don't recall such a goal in the IPng >> process, and I can't see any trace of it in RFC1752 or RFC1726. >=20 >=20 > =E2=80=9CAddressing can follow topology or topology can follow addressi= ng; choose one=E2=80=9D - Y Rekhter >=20 > Goal or no goal, we know of no other way to make the routing system sca= le. Sure. I agree with that and with the RIPE policy that Mikael cited. Belie= ve me, everybody in the IPng discussion was acutely aware of the tension bet= ween PA and PI addressing and the benefits of aggregation when possible. But t= hat is very different from the quoted "goal", which simply wasn't there. Allo= wing topological aggregation was a goal, of course, but that's always been a matter of prefix assignment policy, not of the protocol design. Please note that I did not say that their idea will not work. It's the "alternative fact" that I'm concerned about. Brian =20 From nobody Fri Sep 15 18:07:09 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54A811320CF; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:07:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.498 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.498 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, FROM_LOCAL_NOVOWEL=0.5, HK_RANDOM_ENVFROM=0.001, HK_RANDOM_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=gmail.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TC_accrk5XXt; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:07:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ua0-x229.google.com (mail-ua0-x229.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400c:c08::229]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA92A126B71; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:07:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ua0-x229.google.com with SMTP id t36so2007012uah.10; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:07:06 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pPGTTSGwgao1V8SORI8toyZTyLzIphtIjG2wFuTsKDM=; b=Z3GKbUHDgAMDaFIzlOVmCxbGds/+vPDeBHTgeaIl1QNyB9CKmUGVLavENFJMzYsrXr e9HtRC6zEv2UcknBfF4F1/WWZZ0t3UsloisnybK0Rn4SFlHyU8yje90dwYOlBqFff1im eheZtvXeZvjzexCgVVJ9NxG59Q//Loq4zKVhVin49JFpnu6ZDQbcCW0NHzXgow+ZffSF 0cr0WPh1UiNa8e965xxMjPNEyagjFRlGGlMb4DG5OJSsSqqSCFqXWRsleJwa9bwqoeok kJ+RE6X3Dbus+eBJnCxnGchXPZLMkFPQO/GbPDsofrxK+Ovz9GvL9DywjFSAoBcdTkJn yrGw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pPGTTSGwgao1V8SORI8toyZTyLzIphtIjG2wFuTsKDM=; b=M8ZiJ2+95NPXaoYVe69M8aUlPC/zM9M5N79hQjGH004ccX0kSz4k2E5ME88rpYS0Bb o8DI1uPmsPt1JNnPiqf8hIV1+r9Gyv0BX9wr4Dr5uruxNOnpPhFd11EjRVM4W0aY2eS2 iGdoChWBh219A8inqgRxNJ+jWAIgBTmxj1mr0ljgaoNDXuNCuy/s9TT7R2pj1w0rRImJ af1Zq1rgYCtvJILd8/dE0A+TrFoFV4h5QZ8qli3XY+bPzr44c/hK39wfsibZcZJ3d5pv LQaR5nNoBfmWyzjsAC+ICiHggEUcSD3wUSO+WmZkuC/szwO814GLgVJAW52G3w0SxYb8 T7XQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUjKZ6tLW5CQYbWfLld1BGdkTSEqI7wR1zBu7l8UwwaGQA2mxzAp yRauo+wEOLj3f2vxv8jyIq/zfmzApyqajREWKX0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ADKCNb7LGFe9G7EGqeSjCdSSD0alZ2UbElAtedEuf18jiB5fB4qeBoS7tQftKkrkKof/albgG96tFd3UM9buawkV3xg= X-Received: by 10.159.52.66 with SMTP id s2mr22808314uab.120.1505524025943; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:07:05 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.176.27.17 with HTTP; Fri, 15 Sep 2017 18:06:35 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <150523432567.17956.11322312258310497482@ietfa.amsl.com> <7e8fd49f-a777-fd9e-d410-be7e8d5958cc@gmail.com> <3F17FC48-D8CB-46A4-A8B3-0BC7F65E6D26@employees.org> From: Mark Smith Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 11:06:35 +1000 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00.txt To: Brian E Carpenter Cc: Ole Troan , draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing@ietf.org, 6man WG Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 16 Sep 2017 01:07:08 -0000 On 16 September 2017 at 09:31, Brian E Carpenter wrote: > On 15/09/2017 20:10, Ole Troan wrote: >>> Re https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-foglar-ipv6-ull-routing-00 >>> >>> "One of the goals of IPv6 was to have a sufficiently long address >>> to allow grouping in fields to simplify routing decisions." >>> >>> What makes you believe that? I don't recall such a goal in the IPng >>> process, and I can't see any trace of it in RFC1752 or RFC1726. >> >> >> =E2=80=9CAddressing can follow topology or topology can follow addressin= g; choose one=E2=80=9D - Y Rekhter >> >> Goal or no goal, we know of no other way to make the routing system scal= e. > > Sure. I agree with that and with the RIPE policy that Mikael cited. Belie= ve > me, everybody in the IPng discussion was acutely aware of the tension bet= ween > PA and PI addressing and the benefits of aggregation when possible. But t= hat > is very different from the quoted "goal", which simply wasn't there. Allo= wing > topological aggregation was a goal, of course, but that's always been a > matter of prefix assignment policy, not of the protocol design. > > Please note that I did not say that their idea will not work. It's the > "alternative fact" that I'm concerned about. >From what I've read in Christian Huitema's IPv6 book, at one stage there was a thought of swapping the source and destination address fields so that the DA field was first, to facilitate this sort of cut-through forwarding. From memory, the explanation was that it was decided against was because fields other than the just the DA address have to be processed during layer 3 forwarding. Regards, Mark. > > Brian > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Tue Sep 19 10:24:01 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F63E1342AC for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:24:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kTmyMa3dBYgd for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.179]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C7BB71342A7 for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:23:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/DOWNSTREAM_MBSOUT) with SMTP id v8JHNwrG024660; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:23:58 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (xch15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com [137.136.238.222]) by phx-mbsout-02.mbs.boeing.net (8.14.4/8.14.4/UPSTREAM_MBSOUT) with ESMTP id v8JHNnXW024552 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 bits=256 verify=OK) for ; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:23:49 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com (2002:8988:eede::8988:eede) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 15.0.1320.4; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:23:48 -0700 Received: from XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) by XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com ([137.136.238.222]) with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Tue, 19 Sep 2017 10:23:48 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: "ipv6@ietf.org" Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHS/vWZz4CRyQUZXk66qsY4QNXMZaK82JDA Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:23:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <149909644776.22718.16227939850699261560@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4d61e7-9ca4-b741-ddf3-2e3d3714d55c@gmail.com> <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> In-Reply-To: <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Sep 2017 17:24:00 -0000 I realize that this goes back to the previous node requirements docs (RFC64= 34 and RFC4294), but shouldn't this document cite RFC1122 and RFC1812? 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FPR:; SPF:None; PTR:InfoNoRecords; A:1; MX:1; LANG:en; spamdiagnosticoutput: 1:99 spamdiagnosticmetadata: NSPM Content-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: jisc.ac.uk X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 20 Sep 2017 09:01:29.2105 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 48f9394d-8a14-4d27-82a6-f35f12361205 X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: AM3PR07MB0597 X-MC-Unique: 0RtOkLOIPdqfb8ig_9WOiA-1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 09:01:39 -0000 SGksDQoNCj4gT24gMTkgU2VwIDIwMTcsIGF0IDE4OjIzLCBUZW1wbGluLCBGcmVkIEwgPEZyZWQu TC5UZW1wbGluQGJvZWluZy5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KPiANCj4gSSByZWFsaXplIHRoYXQgdGhpcyBn b2VzIGJhY2sgdG8gdGhlIHByZXZpb3VzIG5vZGUgcmVxdWlyZW1lbnRzIGRvY3MgKFJGQzY0MzQN Cj4gYW5kIFJGQzQyOTQpLCBidXQgc2hvdWxkbid0IHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgY2l0ZSBSRkMxMTIy IGFuZCBSRkMxODEyPw0KDQpSRkMxMTIyIGNvdWxkIGJlIGFkZGVkIGluIHRoZSBpbnRyby4NCg0K SeKAmWQgc3VnZ2VzdCBSRkMxODEyIGNvdWxkIGJlIHJldmlld2VkL2NpdGVkIGluIGRyYWZ0LWll dGYtdjZvcHMtaXB2NnJ0ci1yZXFzLTAwLCBzb21ldGhpbmcgZm9yIFJ1c3MgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIu DQoNClRpbSA= From nobody Wed Sep 20 07:51:15 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EEB113219B for ; 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Wed, 20 Sep 2017 07:56:37 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.237.55.6 with HTTP; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 07:56:16 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <2065f43f2b10419981b4d527d0f5e281@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <149909644776.22718.16227939850699261560@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4d61e7-9ca4-b741-ddf3-2e3d3714d55c@gmail.com> <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> <908A44DC-D32F-4A06-9B65-D9B497A9E3C9@jisc.ac.uk> <2065f43f2b10419981b4d527d0f5e281@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Timothy Winters Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:56:16 -0400 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt To: "Templin, Fred L" Cc: Tim Chown , Russ White , "ipv6@ietf.org" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="001a1147407cbf40b60559a02e3d" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 14:56:42 -0000 --001a1147407cbf40b60559a02e3d Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Fred, The first thing that came to mind reading your email is your are talking about a CE Router (RFC 7084). Acts as a Host on the WAN, but a Router on the LAN interface. I would not be in favor of trying to document that behavior in node requirements. I would prefer to keep it simple, or are you thinking of a case that's not covered in RFC 7084? Regards, Tim On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > Hi Tim, > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tim Chown [mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 2:01 AM > > To: Templin, Fred L > > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Russ White > > Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt > > > > Hi, > > > > > On 19 Sep 2017, at 18:23, Templin, Fred L > wrote: > > > > > > I realize that this goes back to the previous node requirements docs > (RFC6434 > > > and RFC4294), but shouldn't this document cite RFC1122 and RFC1812? > > > > RFC1122 could be added in the intro. > > > > I=E2=80=99d suggest RFC1812 could be reviewed/cited in > draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs-00, something for Russ to consider. > > OK, thanks. One of the reasons I ask is because I think our IPv6 > node/router > requirements documents are missing something important that appeared > in these earlier standards - the model of a host that also acts as a > router. > > RFC1122 calls them "end systems", or "hosts with embedded gateway". > They host their own local applications and can also forward packets on > behalf of nodes connected to a downstream interface. The model has > significant implications for Internet of Things. > > Do we want to import that language into our IPv6 requirements docs? > > Thanks - Fred > > > Tim > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > --=20 Now offering testing for SDN applications and controllers in our SDN switch test bed. Learn more today http://bit.ly/SDN_IOLPR --001a1147407cbf40b60559a02e3d Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Fred,

The first thing that came to m= ind reading your email is your are talking about a CE Router (RFC 7084). = =C2=A0 Acts as a Host on the WAN, but a Router on the LAN interface.
<= div>
I would not be in favor of trying to document that behav= ior in node requirements.=C2=A0 I would prefer to keep it simple, or are yo= u thinking of a case that's not covered in RFC 7084?

Regards,
Tim

On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Templin, Fred L <= span dir=3D"ltr"><Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
Hi Tim,

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Tim Chown [mailto:Tim.Ch= own@jisc.ac.uk]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 2:01 AM
> To: Templin, Fred L <F= red.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Russ White <= ;russ@riw.us>
> Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt
>
> Hi,
>
> > On 19 Sep 2017, at 18:23, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
> >
> > I realize that this goes back to the previous node requirements d= ocs (RFC6434
> > and RFC4294), but shouldn't this document cite RFC1122 and RF= C1812?
>
> RFC1122 could be added in the intro.
>
> I=E2=80=99d suggest RFC1812 could be reviewed/cited in draft-ietf-v6op= s-ipv6rtr-reqs-00, something for Russ to consider.

OK, thanks. One of the reasons I ask is because I think our IPv6 nod= e/router
requirements documents are missing something important that appeared
in these earlier standards - the model of a host that also acts as a router= .

RFC1122 calls them "end systems", or "hosts with embedded ga= teway".
They host their own local applications and can also forward packets on
behalf of nodes connected to a downstream interface. The model has
significant implications for Internet of Things.

Do we want to import that language into our IPv6 requirements docs?

Thanks - Fred

> Tim
-----------------------------------------------------------------= ---
IETF IPv6 working group mailing list
ipv6@ietf.org
Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6
-----------------------------------------------------------------= ---



--
=

Now offering testing for SDN ap= plications and controllers in our SDN switch test bed.=C2=A0Learn more today http://bit.ly/SDN_IOLPR=

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Winters CC: Tim Chown , Russ White , "ipv6@ietf.org" Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHS/vWZz4CRyQUZXk66qsY4QNXMZaK82JDAgAF89YD//+mu8IAAeXIA//+SsvA= Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 15:29:28 +0000 Message-ID: <4c02155867b7433790dba442a9460cc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <149909644776.22718.16227939850699261560@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4d61e7-9ca4-b741-ddf3-2e3d3714d55c@gmail.com> <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> <908A44DC-D32F-4A06-9B65-D9B497A9E3C9@jisc.ac.uk> <2065f43f2b10419981b4d527d0f5e281@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-ms-exchange-transport-fromentityheader: Hosted x-originating-ip: [137.136.248.6] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4c02155867b7433790dba442a9460cc0XCH150608nwnosboeingcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-TM-AS-MML: disable Archived-At: X-BeenThere: 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([2601:647:4d01:db10:4575:946a:32ef:54e9]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id e77sm1661560wmf.27.2017.09.20.10.40.27 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:40:29 -0700 (PDT) From: Bob Hinden Message-Id: <8998DDAA-4ECF-499C-902F-582B2657C47C@gmail.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_3F6E2E98-D16F-45D5-B8E5-C7EECE273751"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha512 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 10:40:24 -0700 In-Reply-To: <4c02155867b7433790dba442a9460cc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> Cc: Bob Hinden , Timothy Winters , Russ White , IPv6 List To: "Templin, Fred L" References: <149909644776.22718.16227939850699261560@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4d61e7-9ca4-b741-ddf3-2e3d3714d55c@gmail.com> <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> <908A44DC-D32F-4A06-9B65-D9B497A9E3C9@jisc.ac.uk> <2065f43f2b10419981b4d527d0f5e281@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4c02155867b7433790dba442a9460cc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 17:40:34 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_3F6E2E98-D16F-45D5-B8E5-C7EECE273751 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Fred, > On Sep 20, 2017, at 8:29 AM, Templin, Fred L = wrote: >=20 > Hi Tim, >=20 > The specific case I am considering is documented here: >=20 > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-templin-v6ops-pdhost/ >=20 > But in general the RFC1122 considerations for hosts that act as = routers, > including what is meant by =E2=80=9Cweak end system=E2=80=9D and = =E2=80=9Cstrong end system=E2=80=9D, > should probably be discussed in the IPv6 docs. Seems to me that a =E2=80=9Chosts that acts as routers=E2=80=9D are = routers. It=E2=80=99s not some different class of device. The = definition from RFC8200 is: router a node that forwards IPv6 packets not explicitly addressed to itself. (See Note below.) host any node that is not a router. (See Note below.) =E2=80=A6. Note: it is possible for a device with multiple interfaces to be configured to forward non-self-destined packets arriving from some set (fewer than all) of its interfaces and to discard non-self- destined packets arriving from its other interfaces. Such a device must obey the protocol requirements for routers when receiving packets from, and interacting with neighbors over, the former (forwarding) interfaces. It must obey the protocol requirements for hosts when receiving packets from, and interacting with neighbors over, the latter (non-forwarding) interfaces. I don=E2=80=99t think changing these definitions in node requirements is = appropriate. Bob >=20 > Thanks - Fred >=20 > From: Timothy Winters [mailto:twinters@iol.unh.edu] > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 7:56 AM > To: Templin, Fred L > Cc: Tim Chown ; Russ White ; = ipv6@ietf.org > Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt >=20 > Hi Fred, >=20 > The first thing that came to mind reading your email is your are = talking about a CE Router (RFC 7084). Acts as a Host on the WAN, but a = Router on the LAN interface. >=20 > I would not be in favor of trying to document that behavior in node = requirements. I would prefer to keep it simple, or are you thinking of = a case that's not covered in RFC 7084? >=20 > Regards, > Tim >=20 > On Wed, Sep 20, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Templin, Fred L = wrote: > Hi Tim, >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tim Chown [mailto:Tim.Chown@jisc.ac.uk] > > Sent: Wednesday, September 20, 2017 2:01 AM > > To: Templin, Fred L > > Cc: ipv6@ietf.org; Russ White > > Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt > > > > Hi, > > > > > On 19 Sep 2017, at 18:23, Templin, Fred L = wrote: > > > > > > I realize that this goes back to the previous node requirements = docs (RFC6434 > > > and RFC4294), but shouldn't this document cite RFC1122 and = RFC1812? > > > > RFC1122 could be added in the intro. > > > > I=E2=80=99d suggest RFC1812 could be reviewed/cited in = draft-ietf-v6ops-ipv6rtr-reqs-00, something for Russ to consider. >=20 > OK, thanks. One of the reasons I ask is because I think our IPv6 = node/router > requirements documents are missing something important that appeared > in these earlier standards - the model of a host that also acts as a = router. >=20 > RFC1122 calls them "end systems", or "hosts with embedded gateway". > They host their own local applications and can also forward packets on > behalf of nodes connected to a downstream interface. The model has > significant implications for Internet of Things. >=20 > Do we want to import that language into our IPv6 requirements docs? >=20 > Thanks - Fred >=20 > > Tim > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- >=20 >=20 >=20 > -- > Now offering testing for SDN applications and controllers in our SDN = switch test bed. Learn more today http://bit.ly/SDN_IOLPR >=20 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > IETF IPv6 working group mailing list > ipv6@ietf.org > Administrative Requests: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ipv6 > -------------------------------------------------------------------- --Apple-Mail=_3F6E2E98-D16F-45D5-B8E5-C7EECE273751 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - https://gpgtools.org iQEcBAEBCgAGBQJZwqgJAAoJEK7rdBF357uoAScIAJuni3UW5PIZ5Zq+C6+m7zjK NFtD5r0mFFEum3GIPF3jMG3of/iYs/9a/xr+lkhI7nKfTsqgYAtZXczqb/yB2W5p JI5Mer9gM1riASEurBaYhSX+KdnToJJuA/Nz7MxXfHFFIpzaw1wIicOZQeIBbzoI QT0ywVw0k1L6BUZ1FUbzqfgmm39ZX1/Z9kI5/6CsByUGW0yudUEeepKNG4EqcJkO 6Yd+yKYYgRuzU05XKtRflCk0lMB3ON4fl7YgAqF9sVHLyx4EbwEIfQIO62e79/VE 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with mapi id 15.00.1320.000; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 11:17:50 -0700 From: "Templin, Fred L" To: Bob Hinden CC: Timothy Winters , Russ White , "IPv6 List" Subject: RE: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt Thread-Topic: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHS/vWZz4CRyQUZXk66qsY4QNXMZaK82JDAgAF89YD//+mu8IAAeXIA//+SsvCAAJsqAP//kUHQ Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 18:17:50 +0000 Message-ID: <68f8bb19ac064b89ac0d10cd5056eb84@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <149909644776.22718.16227939850699261560@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4d61e7-9ca4-b741-ddf3-2e3d3714d55c@gmail.com> <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> <908A44DC-D32F-4A06-9B65-D9B497A9E3C9@jisc.ac.uk> <2065f43f2b10419981b4d527d0f5e281@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4c02155867b7433790dba442a9460cc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <8998DDAA-4ECF-499C-902F-582B2657C47C@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <8998DDAA-4ECF-499C-902F-582B2657C47C@gmail.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: 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([2406:e001:3f51:1:28cc:dc4c:9703:6781]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id b90sm10027770pfm.17.2017.09.20.13.29.04 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:29:06 -0700 (PDT) Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt To: "Manfredi, Albert E" , "Templin, Fred L" Cc: IPv6 List References: <149909644776.22718.16227939850699261560@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4d61e7-9ca4-b741-ddf3-2e3d3714d55c@gmail.com> <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> <908A44DC-D32F-4A06-9B65-D9B497A9E3C9@jisc.ac.uk> <2065f43f2b10419981b4d527d0f5e281@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4c02155867b7433790dba442a9460cc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <8998DDAA-4ECF-499C-902F-582B2657C47C@gmail.com> <68f8bb19ac064b89ac0d10cd5056eb84@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Brian E Carpenter Organization: University of Auckland Message-ID: <34936f48-ddd9-0b1e-d7fb-ad13b69e2f12@gmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:29:10 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:52.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/52.3.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Sep 2017 20:29:10 -0000 On 21/09/2017 06:42, Manfredi, Albert E wrote: > -----Original Message----- > From: ipv6 [mailto:ipv6-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Templin, Fred L > >> I hear you, and I am not suggesting any change in the host and >> router definitions. However, an end system that acts as both a >> router and a host has to do something slightly different than >> an ordinary router would. > > This is the typical case for any "dual-homed host," in my experience. An end system connected redundantly, for reliability/survivability reasons. They are routers, but configured to not forward packets and not announce routes (e.g. using RIP or OSPF). Very common in some environments, and frequently problematic. > >> Whether/not you agree that the term "end system" should be >> used to describe these, I still see value in importing the >> weak/strong ES discussion from RFC1122 because the same >> concepts apply to IPv6. Not exactly. We discuss this a bit in RFC 8028, specifically https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc8028#section-1.1 , and there are some subtle differences. Personally I would prefer that we don't add dependencies on IPv4 documents. We might want to make all of those Historic in a few years. > I think this issue also relates to what an IP address refers to. I'm under the impression that in IPv6, we insist this must be the address of an interface, rather than a host. In IPv4, it's more ambiguous, which is also problematic (IMO). If we insist that IPv6 addresses belong to interfaces, then the weak model would not apply to IPv6, no? Again, see RFC 8028. > > (This is also similar to MAC addresses, whether they should apply to a host or to an interface. A debate from a previous era.) But it doesn't really matter for IPv6. As long as the MAC address is unique on each link, everything works. Brian From nobody Wed Sep 20 13:49:25 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 108FD134212 for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:49:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.221 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.221 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=-0.01, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=-0.01, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 42lzHHaTbuMo for ; Wed, 20 Sep 2017 13:49:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net (phx-mbsout-01.mbs.boeing.net [130.76.184.178]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AAAA11320B5 for ; 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[45.19.110.76]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id p6sm606108ywp.85.2017.09.21.08.02.40 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Thu, 21 Sep 2017 08:02:40 -0700 (PDT) From: Suresh Krishnan Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_E657DA1A-67A1-4081-A07F-A732B9840C41" Reply-To: int-area Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.3 \(3273\)) Subject: Fwd: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 11:02:41 -0400 References: <598675A3-39A7-450D-A205-755D457577A8@ericsson.com> To: 6man WG , v6ops@ietf.org, dhcwg Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3273) Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Sep 2017 15:02:46 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_E657DA1A-67A1-4081-A07F-A732B9840C41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Hi all, The intarea working group is considering adoption of a draft = concerning provisioning domains. The response to the adoption call has = been a bit on the quieter side but generally positive. I am spreading = out this adoption call in the hopes of getting wider feedback from = related working groups. Please send your thoughts (Thanks in advance!!) = by September 27th 2017 to the intarea working group mailing list at = int-area@ietf.org. Regards Suresh > Begin forwarded message: >=20 > From: Wassim Haddad > Subject: [Int-area] WG Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain = Names and Data > Date: September 1, 2017 at 4:14:39 PM EDT > To: > Cc: intarea-chairs@ietf.org >=20 > Dear all, >=20 > Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG meeting, we = would like to start a WG adoption call for = draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 on "Discovering = Provisioning Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D: >=20 > = https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02.txt >=20 > Please indicate your preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is = September 18th. >=20 >=20 > Regards, >=20 > Wassim & Juan Carlos >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Int-area mailing list > Int-area@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area --Apple-Mail=_E657DA1A-67A1-4081-A07F-A732B9840C41 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Hi all,
  The intarea working group is = considering adoption of a draft concerning provisioning domains. The = response to the adoption call has been a bit on the quieter side but = generally positive. I am spreading out this adoption call in the hopes = of getting wider feedback from related working groups. Please send your = thoughts (Thanks in advance!!) by September 27th 2017 to the intarea = working group mailing list at int-area@ietf.org.

Regards
Suresh

Begin forwarded message:

From: = Wassim Haddad <wassim.haddad@ericsson.com>
Subject: = [Int-area] WG = Adoption Call: Discovering Provisioning Domain Names and Data
Date: = September 1, 2017 at 4:14:39 PM = EDT
To: = <int-area@ietf.org>
Cc: = intarea-chairs@ietf.org

Dear all,

Based on the discussion we had at the last intarea WG = meeting, we would like to start a WG adoption call for = draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-domains-02 on "Discovering = Provisioning Domain Names and Data=E2=80=9D:

https://www.ietf.org/id/draft-bruneau-intarea-provisioning-doma= ins-02.txt

Please indicate your = preferences on the mailling list. The deadline is September 18th.


Regards,

Wassim & Juan Carlos





_______________________________________________
Int-area mailing list
Int-area@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/int-area

= --Apple-Mail=_E657DA1A-67A1-4081-A07F-A732B9840C41-- From nobody Fri Sep 22 06:40:59 2017 Return-Path: X-Original-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: ipv6@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E484A134325 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:40:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.7 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.7 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=google.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FKrvEmKvZO3Q for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-it0-x233.google.com (mail-it0-x233.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c0b::233]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B23213443E for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:40:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-it0-x233.google.com with SMTP id d192so1185481itd.1 for ; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:40:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=google.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=urgcqrhp5Glg5LGLazJ5i6p6+b1UrjgrbhAb34hqMoQ=; b=clM6TTrNjFU7euOqB07nnJI6imt3p8Y/scoS5tvjnbhp+x/PpVBXIVgU+dzMvo6xyM 1hIOv4h0Z1WnWzrHAClSg225ISg/hs0DsQhhJqoEsBCQmednvUKIDlq1kkAeLqDiNaZ2 vCVvpzWBdDAOeqiKwQsIBsEN5SPB/y0bgxIj4NWcIQnI7Z7W9joyQvETbj8XuDvh7Eq6 rU9PJwG2PbNVLy8pZVICI5dH7bEIK1Y+9Pr8WfAhIfu63Uji4wJ6HGDbxPBhRWab1d26 ZcNi0oSjbbDWj2l1L9ek4tjvJqi7cXtzMyouy302Pd0xl4Rac/OXlDkdx3rPluTtSnHA RKAA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=urgcqrhp5Glg5LGLazJ5i6p6+b1UrjgrbhAb34hqMoQ=; b=WQNRfsuczqR+1nPBWbXu8Ez76BJUFyCDr1iMzN34y3BKMD7ow4OMR67r427ESw+HMQ yCra6C1HkbFh94hfZNalcT3b/du2EJ0APigTBYVaWCHTijgS4rrQc52i+Mu0qnjiqiGT ns9u0tzBKKKz4GQ9oma0KiyBxpUawLyA/oiV923dfI3M5bx9JVSPZTyld/Ypnc0S/hmq xYH08DcJnIxSUHfL+7Q2xxuJ+yWBypnl/2iEtVH+/fyvDcpIb2RG90HgpAsBzbsKhl+K zPweowmaF5m+FWjVnL9rfx5nD9CzjX3HGXXju4Ku2cmxLnDDjJORmxsaCDR4q6UacJzJ 54sw== X-Gm-Message-State: AHPjjUgjCGFeXBsCFS56aokuj1bZ7GnYITb/43SD95tGeZ/KN9+qFzK2 E31RCGlKK5PmCZqCVFBMb83Dna9KkfBFiXzy6SOUYg== X-Google-Smtp-Source: AOwi7QBYmfAp0mU5ZwF/eeUBbUlI1c933QR4HNa0L+9/pQ3qYsUSEyw5fN5amZhOSFXYPJe5ycnQXcKHagZfYPkUk78= X-Received: by 10.36.200.132 with SMTP id w126mr6970171itf.101.1506087652985; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:40:52 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.107.164.26 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Sep 2017 06:40:31 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <68f8bb19ac064b89ac0d10cd5056eb84@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> References: <149909644776.22718.16227939850699261560@ietfa.amsl.com> <5a4d61e7-9ca4-b741-ddf3-2e3d3714d55c@gmail.com> <596CA8F9.6090806@foobar.org> <908A44DC-D32F-4A06-9B65-D9B497A9E3C9@jisc.ac.uk> <2065f43f2b10419981b4d527d0f5e281@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <4c02155867b7433790dba442a9460cc0@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> <8998DDAA-4ECF-499C-902F-582B2657C47C@gmail.com> <68f8bb19ac064b89ac0d10cd5056eb84@XCH15-06-08.nw.nos.boeing.com> From: Lorenzo Colitti Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 22:40:31 +0900 Message-ID: Subject: Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-6man-rfc6434-bis-01.txt To: "Templin, Fred L" Cc: Bob Hinden , Russ White , IPv6 List Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="94eb2c060256a2daa20559c75b76" Archived-At: X-BeenThere: ipv6@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.22 Precedence: list List-Id: "IPv6 Maintenance Working Group \(6man\)" List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Sep 2017 13:40:57 -0000 --94eb2c060256a2daa20559c75b76 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Templin, Fred L wrote: > I hear you, and I am not suggesting any change in the host and router > definitions. However, an end system that acts as both a router and a > host has to do something slightly different than an ordinary router > would. > > If the end system receives a packet with a destination that does > not match one of its own delegated prefixes, it needs to drop the > packet and send "Destination Unreachable - No route to destination" > instead of forwarding the packet to another node (e.g., to a default > router). This is necessary to avoid a reflection attack where the attacker > attempts to abuse the end system by making it do work to forward > packets it should not be handling. > Wait, what? Where is this documented? --94eb2c060256a2daa20559c75b76 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On T= hu, Sep 21, 2017 at 3:17 AM, Templin, Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boei= ng.com> wrote:
I hear you, = and I am not suggesting any change in the host and router
definitions. However, an end system that acts as both a router and a
host has to do something slightly different than an ordinary router
would.

If the end system receives a packet with a destination that does
not match one of its own delegated prefixes, it needs to drop the
packet and send "Destination Unreachable - No route to destination&quo= t;
instead of forwarding the packet to another node (e.g., to a default
router). This is necessary to avoid a reflection attack where the attacker<= br> attempts to abuse the end system by making it do work to forward
packets it should not be handling.

Wait= , what? Where is this documented?=C2=A0
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