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From: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
CC: "Erik Kline (ek@google.com)" <ek@google.com>, "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>, "int-dir@ietf.org" <int-dir@ietf.org>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>, skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>
Thread-Topic: copy of my review of draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27
Thread-Index: AdgsqD25DZEZQN5qTE+86dygvR22iQXrUaWAAFYpcoA=
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 09:58:45 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ipwave] copy of my review of draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27
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From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Date: Fri, 1 Apr 2022 19:23:10 +0900
Message-ID: <CAPK2DexzkMYLYPOehrsuYveHLqQ3QvtoULK0CB1go_cY6H3qOA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Pascal Thubert (pthubert)" <pthubert@cisco.com>
Cc: Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>, "Erik Kline (ek@google.com)" <ek@google.com>,  "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>, "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>,  "int-dir@ietf.org" <int-dir@ietf.org>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>,  skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>
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Subject: Re: [ipwave] copy of my review of draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27
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Hi Pascal,
You are right.

I will reflect your last comment about IPv6 ND on the next revision.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul

2022=EB=85=84 4=EC=9B=94 1=EC=9D=BC (=EA=B8=88) =EC=98=A4=ED=9B=84 6:59, Pa=
scal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>=EB=8B=98=EC=9D=B4
=EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1:

> Many thanks Paul and authors for addressing my comments as well as the
> ones from Fred.
>
>
>
> I=E2=80=99m good with those changes.
>
>
>
> I note that one suggested change did not happen, about :
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>    This merging and partitioning should be considered for the
>
>    IPv6 ND such as IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC)
>
>    [RFC4862 <https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4862>].
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>
>
> I think you mean that SLAAC is not compatible with merging and
> partitioning, and that additional work is needed for ND to operate proper=
ly
> under those circumstances.
>
> If I=E2=80=99m correct, please express it. Maybe also use a ref to
> draft-nordmark-intarea-ippl ?
>
>
>
> Otherwise all good!
>
>
>
> Keep safe;
>
>
>
> Pascal
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* mercredi 30 mars 2022 18:45
> *To:* Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <pthubert@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* Erik Kline (ek@google.com) <ek@google.com>; Templin (US), Fred L <
> Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>; int-dir@ietf.org; its@ietf.org; Chris Shen <
> shenyiwen7@gmail.com>; skku-iotlab-members <
> skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <
> jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* Re: copy of my review of
> draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27
>
>
>
> Hi Pascal,
>
>
> Here is the revision of IPWAVE PS Draft:
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-network=
ing-28
>
> I attach a revision letter to explain how Chris and I have addressed your
> comments
>
> on the revision.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best Regards,
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 10:58 PM Pascal Thubert (pthubert) <
> pthubert@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> I am an assigned INT directorate reviewer for
> draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27. These comments were written
> primarily for the benefit of the Internet Area Directors. Document editor=
s
> and shepherd(s) should treat these comments just like they would treat
> comments from any other IETF contributors and resolve them along with any
> other Last Call comments that have been received. For more details on the
> INT Directorate, see https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/intdir/about/ <
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/intdir/about/>.
>
>
>
> Based on my review, the document IS ready to go to IETF Last Call and
> therefore CAN be forwarded to the IESG.
>
>
>
> I find the document well written, well referenced, and very informative.
> It fits the general goal of use-cases and problem statement publication.
>
>
>
> The following are other issues I found with this document that SHOULD be
> corrected before publication:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Fig 1 and section 4.1 show a =E2=80=9CCorresponding Node=E2=80=9D. Not su=
re where the term
> comes from, in NMIP and NEMO it is =E2=80=9CCorrespondent Node=E2=80=9D  =
see and refer to
> RFC 4885.
>
>
>
>
>
> About
>
> Section 3.1: =E2=80=9C
>
>    To support applications of these V2I use cases, the required
>
>    functions of IPv6 include IPv6-based packet exchange, transport-layer
>
>    session continuity, and secure, safe communication between a vehicle
>
>    and an infrastructure node (e.g., IP-RSU) in the vehicular network.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> Section 3.2: =E2=80=9C   To support applications of these V2I use cases, =
the required
>
>    functions of IPv6 include IPv6-based packet exchange, transport-layer
>
>    session continuity, and secure, safe communication between a vehicle
>
>    and an infrastructure node (e.g., IP-RSU) in the vehicular network.
>
> =E2=80=9D
>
> Section 3.3:
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>    To support applications of these V2X use cases, the required
>
>    functions of IPv6 include IPv6-based packet exchange, transport-layer
>
>    session continuity, and secure, safe communication between a vehicle
>
>    and a pedestrian either directly or indirectly via an IP-RSU.
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> Each time, the text could clarify what goes in =E2=80=9Cpacket exchange=
=E2=80=9D since as
> written that seems to refer to data plane while the problem for IP is
> mostly control plane. e.g., the problem of discovering adjacent peers
> (addresses, networks) should be listed there shouldn=E2=80=99t it? Addres=
sing is an
> topic of interest as well (BYO Address/Prefix vs. obtain a local address,
> how that relates with DAD and global connectivity). The doc discusses tha=
t
> heavily (around 5.1) and then there=E2=80=99s the discussion in 4.3 on ND
> variations and (MANET) NHDP, that must happen before IPv6 packets can be
> exchanged.
>
>
>
> As a hint, a suggestion can be:
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> =E2=80=A6 functions of IPv6 include IPv6 communication enablement with
> neighborhood discovery and IPv6 address management, reachability with
> adapted network models and routing methods, transport-layer =E2=80=A6
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 3.2
>
>
>
> Fred said =E2=80=98
>
> 3) Section 3.2, change the paragraph beginning: "The existing IPv6 protoc=
ol
> must be augmented through protocol changes..."
> to:
> "The existing IPv6 protocol must be augmented either through protocol
> changes
> or by including a new adaptation layer in the architecture that efficient=
ly
> maps IPv6 to a diversity of link layer technologies. Augmentation is
> necessary
> to support wireless multihop V2I communications in a highway where RSUs a=
re
> sparsely deployed, so a vehicle can reach the wireless coverage of an RSU
> through the multihop data forwarding of intermediate vehicles."
>
> =E2=80=98
>
>
>
> I agree that the document omits V2V2I completely. This is true in Fred=E2=
=80=99s
> highway case, but true also in a simple parking lot to share Wi-Fi access
> when the AP is too far. In the MIPv6 family we called that nested NEMO. T=
he
> problem statement of nested NEMO is RFC 4888. I believe you need to provi=
de
> a minimum of hint that V2V2I exists and for the lack of more reference yo=
u
> can search =E2=80=9Cnested NEMO=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
> Note that the early RPL was a solution for nested NEMO and interworked
> with NEMO. It has been tested successfully by NASA at their Glenn Center
> but I do not think something was published at the time, so no ref.
>
>
>
> Note that I also agree with Fred=E2=80=99s point on 3.3. Maybe you can ma=
ke it
> more verbose but in each case there=E2=80=99s a need to indicate that V2A=
2B can
> exist and needs future attention, even if it is a harder problem.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 4.1:
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> In
>
>    this case, a handover for Vehicle2 needs to be performed by either a
>
>    host-based mobility management scheme (e.g., MIPv6 [RFC6275] =E2=80=A6
>
> =E2=80=A6
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> Section 4.2:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>   Existing network architectures, such as the network architectures of
>
>    PMIPv6 [RFC5213] =E2=80=A6
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>
>
> I see you have a reference to NEMO in the introduction, but this is where
> the reference makes the most sense and it is missing, next to PMIPv6.
>
>
>
> It is easy to confuse network-based mobility (which is PMIPv6 vs. MIPv6,
> and is MIPv4 anyway) and network mobility, which is the case of a car tha=
t
> has a /64 inside and has to handle mobility for the /64.
>
>
>
>
>
> Indeed NEMO is the MIPv6 for networks (a mobile prefix inside the car vs.
> MIP/PMIP which is a host address moving) and vehicles where a main use ca=
se
> for it. PMIPv6 is a variation of MIPv6 that distributes the roles
> differently for the lack of support by end devices, but does not route fo=
r
> a mobile prefix. Network-based does not mean =E2=80=9Cmobile network=E2=
=80=9D, and then you
> often call the mobile network a moving network, again per RFC 4885.
>
>
>
> For the latter, please stick to IETF terminology of =E2=80=9Cmobile netwo=
rk=E2=80=9D as in
> RFC 3963, that will help the reader. I suggest you reference RFC 3963 her=
e,
> and add RFC 4888 for completeness.
>
>
>
> Section 4.1:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>   Alternatively, mobile nodes
>
>    can employ a "Bring-Your-Own-Addresses (BYOA)" technique using their
>
>    own IPv6 Unique Local Addresses (ULAs) [RFC4193] over the wireless
>
>    network, which does not require the messaging (e.g., Duplicate
>
>    Address Detection (DAD)) of IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration
>
>    (SLAAC) [RFC4862].
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> Again listing Bring your own prefix a well as address would improve
> completeness. A typical car has a mobile prefix inside.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 4.2:
>
>
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> OMNI can support the
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>
>
> Suggest =E2=80=9COMNI is designed to support=E2=80=9D unless there=E2=80=
=99s an actual reference?
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 4.3
>
> Fred says =E2=80=9C
>
> Section 4.3, final paragraph, there is no reason to cite as examples all
> RFC variants of the OLSR protocol and all extensions of the DLEP protocol=
 -
> pick one (or at most 2) RFCs for each. Also, it is important to state tha=
t
> standard OSPF routing has been optimized to support MANET applications.
> Suggested rewrite:
>
> "...which serves MANET routing protocols such as the different versions o=
f
> Optimized Link State Routing Protocol (OLSR) [RFC3626][RFC7181], Open
> Shortest Path First (OSPF) derivatives (e.g., [RFC5614]) and the Dynamic
> Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) [RFC8175] with its extensions."
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> I agree. Maybe mention that there are V2V use case with a fixed set of
> cars (platooning) and others with variable neighborhood (parking lot, on
> the road), and the optimum solution may vary.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 5:
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9Cis 72 seconds=E2=80=9D looks precise though in fact it is very r=
ough. Could say
> =E2=80=9Cin the order of a minute=E2=80=9D. Same for V2V, 36s.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 5.1.1
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9Coff-link=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> That terminology does not really exist. All we have is =E2=80=9Cnot-onlin=
k=E2=80=9D.
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 5.2
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CThere is nonnegligible
>
>    control overhead to set up and maintain routes to such a tunnel home
>
>    over the VANET.=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> There again a link to RFC 4888
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9CVehicles can use the TCC as their Home Network having a home age=
nt
>
>    for mobility management as in MIPv6 [RFC6275] and PMIPv6 [RFC5213],=E2=
=80=9D
>
>
>
> add =E2=80=9Cand NEMO [RFC 3963]=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
>
>
> Appendix A: Mentions OMNI but fails to document real world implemented
> protocols such as DLEP which abstract the radio modem over ethernet
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> The following are minor issues (typos, misspelling, minor text
> improvements) with the document:
>
>
>
> Section 5.1:
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
>   This merging and partitioning should be considered for the
>
>    IPv6 ND such as IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC)
>
>    [RFC4862].
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> they may not communicate with each other not in one
>
>    hop in the same
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9C
>
> I can understand but the language seems incorrect. Also Fred says:
>
> =E2=80=98
>
> change: "they need to be configured with a link-local IPv6 address or a
> global IPv6 address"
>
> to:
>
> "they need to be configured with link-local, unique-local and/or global
>
> IPv6 addresses"
>
>
>
> =E2=80=98
>
> I mostly agree but then, those addresses are not necessarily configured.
> Maybe just says that they need the addresses.
>
>
>
>
>
> Section 6.1
>
>
>
> =E2=80=9Cthe DAD=E2=80=9D: we usually do not have the =E2=80=9Cthe=E2=80=
=9D. This appears throughout.
>
>
>
>
>
> Voila!
>
>
>
> Pascal
>
> --
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
Associate Professor
Department Head
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Sungkyunkwan University
Office: +82-31-299-4957
Email: pauljeong@skku.edu, jaehoon.paul@gmail.com
Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
<http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>

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<div dir=3D"auto">Hi Pascal,</div><div dir=3D"auto">You are right.</div><di=
v dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I will reflect your last comment=
 about IPv6 ND on the next revision.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">Thanks.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Bes=
t Regards,</div><div dir=3D"auto">Paul</div><div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">2022=EB=85=84 4=EC=9B=94 1=EC=9D=
=BC (=EA=B8=88) =EC=98=A4=ED=9B=84 6:59, Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &lt;<a h=
ref=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt;=EB=8B=98=EC=9D=
=B4 =EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D=
"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" style=3D"word-wrap:break=
-word">
<div class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">Many thanks Paul and authors for addressing my comments as w=
ell as the ones from Fred.
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">I=E2=80=99m good with those changes.<u></u><u></u></span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">I note that one suggested change did not happen, about :<u><=
/u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">=E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 This me=
rging and partitioning should be considered for the<u></u><u></u></span></f=
ont></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 IPv6 ND=
 such as IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC)<u></u><u></u></sp=
an></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Courier New"><span style=3D=
"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [<a hre=
f=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc4862" title=3D"&quot;IPv6 Sta=
teless Address Autoconfiguration&quot;" target=3D"_blank">RFC4862</a>].<u><=
/u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">=E2=80=9C<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">I think you mean that SLAAC is not compatible with merging a=
nd partitioning, and that additional work is needed for ND to operate prope=
rly under those circumstances.
<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">If I=E2=80=99m correct, please express it. Maybe also use a =
ref to draft-nordmark-intarea-ippl ?<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">Otherwise all good!<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">Keep safe;<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">Pascal<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"=
font-size:11.0pt;font-weight:bold">From:</span></font></b> Mr. Jaehoon Paul=
 Jeong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaeh=
oon.paul@gmail.com</a>&gt;
<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> mercredi 30 mars 2022 =
18:45<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> Pascal Thubert (pthubert=
) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisc=
o.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> Erik Kline (<a href=3D"m=
ailto:ek@google.com" target=3D"_blank">ek@google.com</a>) &lt;<a href=3D"ma=
ilto:ek@google.com" target=3D"_blank">ek@google.com</a>&gt;; Templin (US), =
Fred L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" target=3D"_blank">F=
red.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:int-dir@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank">int-dir@ietf.org</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=
=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a>; Chris Shen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shenyiwen7@g=
mail.com" target=3D"_blank">shenyiwen7@gmail.com</a>&gt;; skku-iotlab-membe=
rs &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_b=
lank">skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;;
 Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b><span style=3D"font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: copy of my revi=
ew of draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><font size=3D"2" face=
=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">Hi Pascal,</span></font></p><=
/div></div></div></div><div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" s=
tyle=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549WordSecti=
on1"><div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0cm 0cm=
 0cm 4.0pt"><div><p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><fon=
t size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"><br>
Here is the revision of IPWAVE PS Draft:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicula=
r-networking-28" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr=
aft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28</a><u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">I attach a revision letter to explain how Chris and I have a=
ddressed your comments<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">on the revision.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Paul<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></font></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:11.0pt">On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 10:58 PM Pascal Thubert (pthubert) &=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">I am an assigned INT directorate reviewer for draft-ietf-ipwav=
e-vehicular-networking-27. These comments were written primarily
 for the benefit of the Internet Area Directors. Document editors and sheph=
erd(s) should treat these comments just like they would treat comments from=
 any other IETF contributors and resolve them along with any other Last Cal=
l comments that have been received.
 For more details on the INT Directorate, see <a href=3D"https://datatracke=
r.ietf.org/group/intdir/about/" target=3D"_blank">
https://datatracker.ietf.org/group/intdir/about/</a> &lt;<a href=3D"https:/=
/datatracker.ietf.org/group/intdir/about/" target=3D"_blank">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/group/intdir/about/</a>&gt;.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Based on my review, the document IS ready to go to IETF Last C=
all and therefore CAN be forwarded to the IESG.</span></font><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">I find the document well written, well referenced, and very in=
formative. It fits the general goal of use-cases and problem statement
 publication.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">The following are other issues I found with this document that=
 SHOULD be corrected before publication:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Fig 1 and section 4.1 show a =E2=80=9CCorresponding Node=E2=80=
=9D. Not sure where the term comes from, in NMIP and NEMO it is =E2=80=9CCo=
rrespondent
 Node=E2=80=9D=C2=A0 see and refer to RFC 4885.=C2=A0=C2=A0 </span></font><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
</div>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">About</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">Section 3.1: =E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 To support applications of these V2I use ca=
ses, the required</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 functions of IPv6 include IPv6-based packet=
 exchange, transport-layer</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 session continuity, and secure, safe commun=
ication between a vehicle</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 and an infrastructure node (e.g., IP-RSU) i=
n the vehicular network.</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">Section 3.2: =E2=80=9C=C2=A0=C2=A0 To support applicatio=
ns of these V2I use cases, the required</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 functions of IPv6 include=
 IPv6-based packet exchange, transport-layer</span></font><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 session continuity, and s=
ecure, safe communication between a vehicle</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 and an infrastructure nod=
e (e.g., IP-RSU) in the vehicular network.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9D</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 3.3:
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 To support applications of these V2X use ca=
ses, the required</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 functions of IPv6 include IPv6-based packet=
 exchange, transport-layer</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 session continuity, and secure, safe commun=
ication between a vehicle</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<pre><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fon=
t-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 and a pedestrian either directly or indirec=
tly via an IP-RSU.</span></font><u></u><u></u></pre>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Each time, the text could clarify what goes in =E2=80=9Cpacket=
 exchange=E2=80=9D since as written that seems to refer to data plane while=
 the
 problem for IP is mostly control plane. e.g., the problem of discovering a=
djacent peers (addresses, networks) should be listed there shouldn=E2=80=99=
t it? Addressing is an topic of interest as well (BYO Address/Prefix vs. ob=
tain a local address, how that relates with
 DAD and global connectivity). The doc discusses that heavily (around 5.1) =
and then there=E2=80=99s the discussion in 4.3 on ND variations and (MANET)=
 NHDP, that must happen before IPv6 packets can be exchanged.
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">As a hint, a suggestion can be:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=A6 functions of IPv6 include IPv6 communication enablem=
ent with neighborhood discovery and IPv6 address management, reachability
 with adapted network models and routing methods, transport-layer =E2=80=A6=
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 3.2
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Fred said =E2=80=98</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Calibri"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">3) Sectio=
n 3.2, change the paragraph beginning: &quot;The existing IPv6 protocol<br>
must be augmented through protocol changes...&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;The existing IPv6 protocol must be augmented either through protocol =
changes<br>
or by including a new adaptation layer in the architecture that efficiently=
<br>
maps IPv6 to a diversity of link layer technologies. Augmentation is necess=
ary<br>
to support wireless multihop V2I communications in a highway where RSUs are=
<br>
sparsely deployed, so a vehicle can reach the wireless coverage of an RSU<b=
r>
through the multihop data forwarding of intermediate vehicles.&quot;<u></u>=
<u></u></span></font></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=98</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">I agree that the document omits V2V2I completely. This is true=
 in Fred=E2=80=99s highway case, but true also in a simple parking lot
 to share Wi-Fi access when the AP is too far. In the MIPv6 family we calle=
d that nested NEMO. The problem statement of nested NEMO is RFC 4888. I bel=
ieve you need to provide a minimum of hint that V2V2I exists and for the la=
ck of more reference you can search
 =E2=80=9Cnested NEMO=E2=80=9D. </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Note that the early RPL was a solution for nested NEMO and int=
erworked with NEMO. It has been tested successfully by NASA at
 their Glenn Center but I do not think something was published at the time,=
 so no ref.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Note that I also agree with Fred=E2=80=99s point on 3.3. Maybe=
 you can make it more verbose but in each case there=E2=80=99s a need to in=
dicate
 that V2A2B can exist and needs future attention, even if it is a harder pr=
oblem.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 4.1:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">In</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 this case, a handover for Vehicle2 needs to be pe=
rformed by either a</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 host-based mobility management scheme (e.g., MIPv=
6 [RFC6275] =E2=80=A6
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=A6</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 4.2:
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0 Existing network architectures, such as the network arc=
hitectures of</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 PMIPv6 [RFC5213] =E2=80=A6</span></font><u></u><u=
></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">I see you have a reference to NEMO in the introduction, but th=
is is where the reference makes the most sense and it is missing,
 next to PMIPv6. </span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">It is easy to confuse network-based mobility (which is PMIPv6 =
vs. MIPv6, and is MIPv4 anyway) and network mobility, which is
 the case of a car that has a /64 inside and has to handle mobility for the=
 /64.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Indeed NEMO is the MIPv6 for networks (a mobile prefix inside =
the car vs. MIP/PMIP which is a host address moving) and vehicles
 where a main use case for it. PMIPv6 is a variation of MIPv6 that distribu=
tes the roles differently for the lack of support by end devices, but does =
not route for a mobile prefix. Network-based does not mean =E2=80=9Cmobile =
network=E2=80=9D, and then you often call the mobile
 network a moving network, again per RFC 4885. </span></font><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">For the latter, please stick to IETF terminology of =E2=80=9Cm=
obile network=E2=80=9D as in RFC 3963, that will help the reader. I suggest=
 you
 reference RFC 3963 here, and add RFC 4888 for completeness.</span></font><=
u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 4.1:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0 Alternatively, mobile nodes</span></font><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 can employ a &quot;Bring-Your-Own-Addresses (BYOA=
)&quot; technique using their</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 own IPv6 Unique Local Addresses (ULAs) [RFC4193] =
over the wireless</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 network, which does not require the messaging (e.=
g., Duplicate</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Address Detection (DAD)) of IPv6 Stateless Addres=
s Autoconfiguration</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 (SLAAC) [RFC4862].</span></font><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Again listing Bring your own prefix a well as address would im=
prove completeness. A typical car has a mobile prefix inside.</span></font>=
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 4.2:
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">OMNI can support the</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Suggest =E2=80=9COMNI is designed to support=E2=80=9D unless t=
here=E2=80=99s an actual reference?</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 4.3</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Fred says =E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 4.3, final paragraph, there is no reason to cite as ex=
amples all RFC variants of the OLSR protocol and all extensions
 of the DLEP protocol - pick one (or at most 2) RFCs for each. Also, it is =
important to state that standard OSPF routing has been optimized to support=
 MANET applications. Suggested rewrite:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">&quot;...which serves MANET routing protocols such as the diff=
erent versions of Optimized Link State Routing Protocol (OLSR) [RFC3626][RF=
C7181],
 Open Shortest Path First (OSPF) derivatives (e.g., [RFC5614]) and the Dyna=
mic Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) [RFC8175] with its extensions.&quot;</spa=
n></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">I agree. Maybe mention that there are V2V use case with a fixe=
d set of cars (platooning) and others with variable neighborhood
 (parking lot, on the road), and the optimum solution may vary.</span></fon=
t><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 5:
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9Cis 72 seconds=E2=80=9D looks precise though in fact i=
t is very rough. Could say =E2=80=9Cin the order of a minute=E2=80=9D. Same=
 for V2V, 36s.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-left:none;border-bot=
tom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;border-right:none;padding:1.0pt 0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 5.1.1</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9Coff-link=E2=80=9D</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">That terminology does not really exist. All we have is =E2=80=
=9Cnot-onlink=E2=80=9D.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 5.2</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9CThere is nonnegligible</span></font><u></u><u></u></p=
>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 control overhead to set up and maintain routes to=
 such a tunnel home</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 over the VANET.=E2=80=9D</span></font><u></u><u><=
/u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">There again a link to RFC 4888</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9CVehicles can use the TCC as their Home Network having=
 a home agent</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 for mobility management as in MIPv6 [RFC6275] and=
 PMIPv6 [RFC5213],=E2=80=9D</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">add =E2=80=9Cand NEMO [RFC 3963]=E2=80=9D</span></font><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Appendix A: Mentions OMNI but fails to document real world imp=
lemented protocols such as DLEP which abstract the radio modem
 over ethernet</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">The following are minor issues (typos, misspelling, minor text=
 improvements) with the document:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 5.1:
</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0This merging and partitioning should be considered=
 for the</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 IPv6 ND such as IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfig=
uration (SLAAC)</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 [RFC4862].</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">they may not communicate with each oth=
er not in one</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0=C2=A0 hop in the same</span></f=
ont><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9C</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">I can understand but the language seems incorrect. Also Fred s=
ays:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=98</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">change: &quot;they need to be configured with a link-local IPv=
6 address or a global IPv6 address&quot;</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">to:</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">&quot;they need to be configured with link-local, unique-local=
 and/or global</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">IPv6 addresses&quot;</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=98</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">I mostly agree but then, those addresses are not necessarily c=
onfigured. Maybe just says that they need the addresses.</span></font><u></=
u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-bottom:solid windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm =
0cm 1.0pt 0cm">
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">Section 6.1</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"m_-7900801610250498549gmail-m7697891073433955275msoplaintext"><=
font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-fami=
ly:Consolas">=E2=80=9Cthe DAD=E2=80=9D: we usually do not have the =E2=80=
=9Cthe=E2=80=9D. This appears throughout.</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Voila!</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">=C2=A0</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><font size=3D"2" face=3D"Consolas"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:Consolas">Pascal</span></font><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_signature" =
data-smartmail=3D"gmail_signature"><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr"><=
div><div dir=3D"ltr"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) J=
eong, Ph.D.<br>Associate Professor</div><div dir=3D"ltr">Department Head<br=
>Department of Computer Science and Engineering<br>Sungkyunkwan University<=
br>Office: +82-31-299-4957<br>Email: <a href=3D"mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu" =
style=3D"font-size:12.8px" target=3D"_blank">pauljeong@skku.edu</a>,=C2=A0<=
a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gma=
il.com</a><br>Personal Homepage: <a href=3D"http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-j=
aehoon-jeong.php" target=3D"_blank">http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-j=
eong.php</a><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>

--00000000000090221205db952c35--


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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
CC: Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>, Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com>, "housley@vigilsec.com" <housley@vigilsec.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>, Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
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From: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Date: Tue, 5 Apr 2022 01:24:46 +0900
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To: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
Cc: Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>,  "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>, Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com>,  "housley@vigilsec.com" <housley@vigilsec.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>,  skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>, Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>,  "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
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Hi Fred,
Thanks for your quick doublechecking.

For your comments of 8), 9), and 14), as I mentioned in the revision letter=
,
these descriptions have too detailed information even though they have
useful information.
RPL is widely used as a Standards track RFC, so it is a good reference for
IPWAVE.
On the other hand, AERO is an Experimental RFC.

As the editor of this document, I would not include those descriptions into
the document
since AERO/OMNI has already been explained enough for the audience.

As the IESG telechat is scheduled on April 7, 2022, it is hard to get WG
consensus about
the text about AERO/OMNI and let it be reviewed by directorate reviewers
including INTDIR.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul






On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 12:29 AM Templin (US), Fred L <
Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:

> Paul, I would like to thank you for respectfully addressing my comments.
> The
>
> document is greatly improved thanks to your resolution of the comments
>
> provided both by myself and by others.
>
>
>
> I would like to ask for you to reconsider your resolution for my comments
> 8), 9)
>
> and 14) however for which your proposed resolution was to not accept base=
d
> on
>
> detailed descriptions of the AERO/OMNI services. However, I note that
> Section
>
> 5.1.3 of the draft supplies an even more detailed description of
> RPL/6LoWPAN
>
> so I believe a similar level of detail would be appropriate for AERO/OMNI=
.
>
>
>
> If you still cannot see your way clear to address my comments 8), 9) and
> 14)
>
> as written, then I would ask you to propose a modified/reduced form and/o=
r
>
> find a way to reduce what appears to be a normative detailed description =
of
>
> RPL/6LoWPAN in Section 5.13.
>
>
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Fred Templin
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong [mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Wednesday, March 30, 2022 9:47 AM
> *To:* Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> *Cc:* Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>; Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de; Erik
> Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com>; housley@vigilsec.com; its@ietf.org;
> skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>; Chris Shen <
> shenyiwen7@gmail.com>; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
> *Subject:* [EXTERNAL] Re: [ipwave] I-D Action:
> draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Fred,
> Here is the revision of IPWAVE PS Draft:
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-network=
ing-28
>
> I attach a revision letter to explain how Chris and I have addressed your
> comments
>
> on the revision.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best Regards,
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 3:17 AM Templin (US), Fred L <
> Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks Paul, and I am certainly open to discuss any aspects.
>
>
>
> Fred
>
>
>
> *From:* Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong [mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com]
> *Sent:* Thursday, February 24, 2022 3:55 PM
> *To:* Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>; Templin (US), Fred L <
> Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> *Cc:* Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de; Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com>; Mr.
> Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>; housley@vigilsec.com;
> its@ietf.org; skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [ipwave] I-D Action:
> draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
>
>
>
> Hi Fred,
>
> Thanks for your suggested update.
>
>
>
> However, I need the review from Pascal as an INTDIR reviewer.
>
>
>
> Pascal,
>
> Could you review the update from Fred and confirm that his update does no=
t
> break the balance between the two approaches of RPL and AERO/ONMI?
>
>
>
> Thanks.
>
>
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> 2022=EB=85=84 2=EC=9B=94 25=EC=9D=BC (=EA=B8=88) =EC=98=A4=EC=A0=84 5:51,=
 Templin (US), Fred L <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
> =EB=8B=98=EC=9D=B4 =EC=9E=91=EC=84=B1:
>
> All, see below for my comments on
> 'draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt'.
> It might be worth noting that my colleagues and I have been looking at
> vehicular
> communications use cases for a long time (e.g., see: RANGERS [RFC6139]).
>
> Indeed, support for vehicular communications of all forms (land, sea, air=
,
> space)
> has long been the driving force behind the AERO and OMNI technologies whi=
ch
> have taken their current shape as a result. Please see below for comments
> and
> make corresponding changes to the document.
>
> Fred Templin
>
> ---
>
> Comments on 'draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt':
> **************************************************
> 1) Section 1, change: "Asymmetric Extended Route Optimization (AERO)
> [I-D.templin-6man-aero]"
> to:
> "Automatic Extended Route Optimization based on the Overlay Multilink
> Network Interface (AERO/OMNI)
> [I-D.templin-6man-aero][I-D.templin-6man-omni]".
>
> 2) Section 3, change: "The use cases presented in this section serve as
> the description and motivation for the need to extend IPv6 and its
> protocols
> to facilitate "Vehicular IPv6"."
> to:
> "The use cases presented in this section serve as the description and
> motivation
> for the need to augment IPv6 and its protocols to facilitate "Vehicular
> IPv6"."
>
> 3) Section 3.2, change the paragraph beginning: "The existing IPv6 protoc=
ol
> must be augmented through protocol changes..."
> to:
> "The existing IPv6 protocol must be augmented either through protocol
> changes
> or by including a new adaptation layer in the architecture that efficient=
ly
> maps IPv6 to a diversity of link layer technologies. Augmentation is
> necessary
> to support wireless multihop V2I communications in a highway where RSUs a=
re
> sparsely deployed, so a vehicle can reach the wireless coverage of an RSU
> through the multihop data forwarding of intermediate vehicles."
>
> 4) Section 3.3, change the paragraph beginning: "The existing IPv6 protoc=
ol
> must be augmented through protocol changes..."
> to:
> "The existing IPv6 protocol must be augmented through protocol changes or
> by including a new adaptation layer in the architecture that efficiently
> maps IPv6 to a diversity of underlying link layer technologies.
> Augmentation
> is necessary to support wireless multihop V2X or V2I2X communications in =
an
> urban road network where RSUs are deployed at intersections, so a vehicle
> (or a pedestrian's smartphone) can reach the wireless coverage of an RSU
> through the multihop data forwarding of intermediate vehicles (or
> pedestrians'
> smartphones) as packet forwarders."
>
> 5) Section 4.1, second paragraph, change: "OMNI (Overlay Multilink Networ=
k
> Interface) [I-D.templin-6man-omni]"
> to:
> "AERO/OMNI [I-D.templin-6man-aero][I-D.templin-6man-omni]".
>
> 6) Section 4.1, third paragraph, change: "Furthermore, the wireless
> media interfaces are autoconfigured with a global IPv6 prefix
> (e.g., 2001:DB8:1:1::/64) to support both V2V and V2I networking. Note
> that 2001:DB8::/32 is a documentation prefix [RFC3849] for example
> prefixes in this document, and also that any routable IPv6 address
> needs to be routable in a VANET and a vehicular network including IP-RSUs=
."
> to:
> "In a first addressing alternative, the wireless media interfaces
> are autoconfigured with a global IPv6 prefix (e.g., 2001:DB8:1:1::/64)
> to support both V2V and V2I networking. Note that 2001:DB8::/32 is a
> documentation prefix [RFC3849] for example prefixes in this document,
> and also that any routable IPv6 address needs to be routable in a VANET
> and a vehicular network including IP-RSUs. In a second alternative, each
> wireless media interface is configured with an IPv6 Unique Local Address
> (ULA) [RFC4193] that is assured unique within the vehicular network
> according to AERO/OMNI and [RFC5889]. The ULA supports both V2V and V2I
> multihop forwarding within the vehicular network (e.g., via a VANET
> routing protocol) while each vehicle can communicate with Internet
> correspondents using global IPv6 addresses via OMNI interface
> encapsulation over the wireless interface."
>
> 7) Section 4.1, fifth paragraph, change: "Alternatively, mobile nodes
> can employ a "Bring-Your-Own-Addresses (BYOA)" technique using their
> own IPv6 Unique Local Addresses (ULAs) [RFC4193] over the wireless
> network, which does not require the messaging (e.g., Duplicate Address
> Detection (DAD)) of IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC)
> [RFC4862]."
> to:
> "Alternatively, mobile nodes can configure IPv6 Unique Local Addresses
> (ULAs) according AERO/OMNI then support global communications through
> OMNI interface encapsulation and forwarding of packets with MNP-based
> global IPv6 addresses over the wireless networks. The use of AERO/OMNI
> ULA autoconfiguration assures uniqueness such that Duplicate Address
> Detection (DAD) of IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC)
> [RFC4862] is not needed."
>
> 8) Section 4.2, add the following as a final paragraph:
> "In a second alternative when vehicles configure an OMNI interface over
> an underlying VANET based on ULA addressing, the global IPv6 addresses
> covered by the MNP on-board the vehicle are not injected into the VANET
> routing system but instead traverse the VANET in the forwarding plane
> via OMNI encapsulation. This allows each vehicle to maintain a constant
> and unchanging MNP delegation even as it moves between IP-RSUs. This
> avoids any need for vehicle on-board network renumbering due to
> mobility and avoids repeated injections and withdrawals of MNP
> prefixes within the VANET."
>
> 9) Section 4.3, add new paragraph following paragraph beginning
> "Figure 3 shows the internetworking" as follows:
> "When two vehicles within a ULA-based VANET need to communicate without
> the assistance of any infrastructure, they can exchange unencapsulated
> IPv6 packets with ULA-based addresses which will be forwarded according
> to the VANET routing protocol. Alternatively, the vehicles can use OMNI
> interface encapsulation to exchange IPv6 packets with global addresses
> taken from their respective MNPs. The encapsulation source and destinatio=
n
> ULAs are algorithmically bound to the IPv6 source and destination global
> addresses which allows for stateless encapsulation address determination.=
"
>
> 10) Section 4.3, final paragraph, there is no reason to cite as examples
> all RFC variants of the OLSR protocol and all extensions of the DLEP
> protocol - pick one (or at most 2) RFCs for each. Also, it is important
> to state that standard OSPF routing has been optimized to support MANET
> applications. Suggested rewrite:
> "...which serves MANET routing protocols such as the different versions
> of Optimized Link State Routing Protocol (OLSR) [RFC3626][RFC7181], Open
> Shortest Path First (OSPF) derivatives (e.g., [RFC5614]) and the Dynamic
> Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) [RFC8175] with its extensions."
>
> 11) Section 5.1, second paragraph, change: "they need to be configured
> with a link-local IPv6 address or a global IPv6 address"
> to:
> "they need to be configured with link-local, unique-local and/or global
> IPv6 addresses"
>
> 12) Section 5.2, third paragraph, change: "An efficient DAD is required
> to reduce the overhead of the DAD packets during a vehicle's travel in
> a road network"
> to:
> "DAD is not needed in networks that follow the OMNI ULA autoconfiguration
> procedures. In other cases when DAD is needed, it must be made efficient
> to reduce the overhead of the DAD packets during a vehicle's travel in
> a road network"
>
> 13) Section 5.1.1, third paragraph, change: "There is a relationship
> between a link and a prefix, besides the different scopes that are
> expected from the link-local and global types of IPv6 addresses."
> to:
> "There is a relationship between a link and a prefix, besides the
> different scopes that are expected from the link-local, unique-local
> and global types of IPv6 addresses."
>
> 14) Section 5.1.1, add a new second-to-last paragraph as follows:
> "Often when two VANETs merge some vehicles may configure addresses from
> a first subnet prefix while other vehicles configure addresses from other
> subnet prefixes. These merge events must not interfere with the
> vehicle-to-vehicle multihop forwarding necessary to support continuous
> communications. Additionally, when a vehicle enters the network for the
> first time it may need to use a temporary ULA address in initial messages
> to negotiate with an IP-RSU for an address within the subnet. The VANET
> must therefore provide (short-term) forwarding for vehicles with foreign
> addresses, while the subnet prefix serves as an aggregation point of
> reference for a particular IP-RSU without impeding multihop forwarding
> between vehicles that may belong to different subnets."
>
> 15) Section 5.1.3 goes too far in expanding on RPL. It is based on the
> claim that: "However, it will be costly to run both vehicular ND and a
> vehicular ad hoc routing protocol in terms of control traffic overhead
> [RFC9119].". But, the AERO/OMNI approach uses only the MANET routing
> protocol control messages at the subnet level then applies unicast-only
> IPv6 ND messaging at the OMNI interface level so that there is no traffic
> amplification due to multicast IPv6 ND within the subnet. Therefore, a
> new third paragraph telling how it works in AERO/OMNI should be added
> as follows:
> "The AERO/OMNI approach avoids this issue by using MANET routing protocol=
s
> only (i.e., and no multicast IPv6 ND messaging) in the wireless network
> underlay while applying efficient unicast IPv6 ND messaging in the OMNI
> overlay on an as-needed basis for router discovery and NUD. This greatly
> reduces the overhead for VANET-wide multicasting while providing agile
> accommodation for dynamic topology changes."
>
> Additionally, the RPL text should be reduced by at least 50%.
>
> 16) Section 5.2, paragraph 6 change: "Even though the SLAAC with classic
> ND costs a DAD during mobility management, the SLAAC with [RFC8505] does
> not cost a DAD."
> to:
> "Even though classic IPv6 ND requires the use of DAD on many link types
> during mobility management, address autoconfiguration based on [RFC8505]
> and/or AERO/OMNI does not require DAD."
>
> 17) Section 5.2, paragraph 6, remove the following text entirely:
> "On the other hand, a BYOA does not allow such direct routability
> to the Internet since the BYOA is not topologically correct, that is,
> not routable in the Internet. In addition, a vehicle configured with
> a BYOA needs a tunnel home (e.g., IP-RSU) connected to the Internet,
> and the vehicle needs to know which neighboring vehicle is reachable
> inside the VANET toward the tunnel home. There is nonnegligible control
> overhead to set up and maintain routes to such a tunnel home over
> the VANET."
>
> Reason: There is always a cost for maintaining mobility management
> for addresses within an MNP. It can be done either by frequent
> advertisements/withdrawals of the MNP in the global routing system or
> through coordination with a mobility anchor point in an overlay via
> encapsulation. The Connexion by Boeing experience showed that dynamic
> routing protocol updates do not scale in the global Internet. The
> AERO/OMNI services instead minimize routing protocol disturbance
> while using efficient mobility signaling in the overlay.
>
> 18) Section 5.2, near the end, remove the following sentence: "IP
> tunneling over the wireless link should be avoided for performance
> efficiency."
>
> Reason: IP tunneling is used only in support of global-scoped IPv6
> communication (not local-scoped) and can use effective header
> compression for greater efficiency as in AERO/OMNI. In addition,
> there is value in using encapsulation both from the standpoint of
> minimizing global routing protocol overhead and by accommodating
> path MTU diversity (see below).
>
> 19) Add a new Section 5.3 as follows:
> "5.3 Accommodating MTU Diversity
>
> The wireless and/or wired-line links in paths between both mobile
> nodes and fixed network correspondents may configure a variety of
> Maximum Transmission Units (MTUs), where all IPv6 links are required
> to support a minimum MTU of 1280 octets and MAY support larger MTUs.
> Unfortunately, determining the path MTU (i.e., the minimum link MTU
> in the path) has proven to be inefficient and unreliable due to the
> uncertain nature of the loss-oriented ICMPv6 messaging service used
> for path MTU discovery. Recent developments have produced a more
> reliable path MTU determination service for TCP [RFC4821] and UDP
> [RFC8899] however the MTUs discovered are always limited by the most
> restrictive link MTU in the path (often 1500 octets or smaller).
>
> The AERO/OMNI service addresses the MTU issue by introducing a new
> layer in the Internet architecture known as the "OMNI Adaptation Layer
> (OAL)". The OAL allows end systems that configure an OMNI interface
> to utilize a full 65535 octet MTU by leveraging the IPv6 fragmentation
> and reassembly service during encapsulation to produce fragment sizes
> that are assured of traversing the path without loss due to a
> size restriction. (This allows end systems to send packets that are
> often much larger than the actual path MTU.)
>
> Performance studies over the course of many decades have proven that
> applications will see greater performance by sending smaller numbers
> of large packets (as opposed to larger numbers of small packets) even
> if fragmentation is needed. The OAL further supports even larger packet
> sizes through the IP Parcels construct [I-D.templin-intarea-parcels]
> which provides "packet-in-packet" encapsulation for a total size up
> to 4MB. Together, the OAL and IP Parcels will provide a revolutionary
> new capability for greater efficiency in both mobile and fixed networks."
>
> 20) Appendix B, add the following as a final paragraph:
> "AERO and OMNI together securely and efficiently address the following
> 6 M's of Modern Internetworking for mobile V2V, V2I and V2X Clients:
>
>    1.  Multilink: A Client's ability to coordinate multiple diverse
>        underlying data links as a single logical unit (i.e., the OMNI
>        interface) to achieve the required communications performance and
>        reliability objectives.
>
>    2.  Multinet: The ability to span the OMNI link over a segment
>        routing topology with multiple diverse administrative domain
>        network segments while maintaining seamless E2E communications
>        between mobile Clients and correspondents such as air traffic
>        controllers and fleet administrators.
>
>    3.  Mobility: A Client's ability to change network points of
>        attachment (e.g., moving between wireless base stations) which
>        may result in an underlying interface address change without
>        disruptions to ongoing communication sessions with peers over the
>        OMNI link.
>
>    4.  Multicast: The ability to send a single network transmission that
>        reaches multiple Clients belonging to the same interest group
>        without disturbing other Clients not subscribed to the interest
>        group.
>
>    5.  Multihop: A mobile Client's V2V relaying capability useful when
>        multiple forwarding hops between vehicles may be necessary to
>        reach back to an infrastructure access point connection to the
>        OMNI link.
>
>    6.  MTU Assurance: The ability to deliver packets of various robust
>        sizes between peers without loss due to a link size restriction,
>        and to dynamically adjust packet sizes in order to achieve the
>        optimal performance for each independent traffic flow."
>
> --
>
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D
> Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor
>
> Department Head
> Department of Computer Science and Engineering
> Sungkyunkwan University
> Office: +82-31-299-4957
> Email: pauljeong@skku.edu, jaehoon.paul@gmail.com
> Personal Homepage: http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php
> <http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php>
>
>

--000000000000363fed05dbd693f7
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">Hi Fred,<div>Thanks=C2=A0for your quick doublechecking.</d=
iv><div><br></div><div>For your comments of 8), 9), and 14), as I mentioned=
 in the revision letter,</div><div>these descriptions have too detailed inf=
ormation even though they have useful information.</div><div>RPL is widely =
used as a Standards track RFC,=C2=A0so it is a good=C2=A0reference for IPWA=
VE.=C2=A0</div><div>On the other hand, AERO is an=C2=A0<span style=3D"color=
:rgb(0,0,0);font-size:13.3333px">Experimental RFC.</span></div><div><br></d=
iv><div>As the editor of this document, I would not include those descripti=
ons into the document</div><div>since AERO/OMNI has already been explained =
enough for the audience.</div><div><br></div><div>As the IESG telechat is s=
cheduled on April 7, 2022, it is hard to get WG consensus about=C2=A0</div>=
<div>the text about AERO/OMNI and let=C2=A0it be reviewed by directorate=C2=
=A0reviewers including INTDIR.</div><div><br></div><div>Thanks.</div><div><=
br></div><div>Best Regards,</div><div>Paul</div><div><br></div><div><br></d=
iv><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><br><div class=3D"gma=
il_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr" class=3D"gmail_attr">On Tue, Apr 5, 2022 at 12:2=
9 AM Templin (US), Fred L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com">=
Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmai=
l_quote" style=3D"margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,20=
4,204);padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"gmail-m_-184972458475621747WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Paul, I would like to thank you for respectf=
ully addressing my comments. The<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">document is greatly improved thanks to your =
resolution of the comments<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">provided both by myself and by others.<u></u=
><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">I would like to ask for you to reconsider yo=
ur resolution for my comments 8), 9)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">and 14) however for which your proposed reso=
lution was to not accept based on<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">detailed descriptions of the AERO/OMNI servi=
ces. However, I note that Section<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">5.1.3 of the draft supplies an even more det=
ailed description of RPL/6LoWPAN<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">so I believe a similar level of detail would=
 be appropriate for AERO/OMNI.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">If you still cannot see your way clear to ad=
dress my comments 8), 9) and 14)<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">as written, then I would ask you to propose =
a modified/reduced form and/or<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">find a way to reduce what appears to be a no=
rmative detailed description of<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">RPL/6LoWPAN in Section 5.13.<u></u><u></u></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thank you,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Fred Templin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.p=
aul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, March 30, 2022 9:47 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Templin (US), Fred L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing=
.com" target=3D"_blank">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> Pascal Thubert &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@tel=
ekom.de" target=3D"_blank">Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>; Erik Kline &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ek.ietf@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">ek.ietf@gmail.com</a>&g=
t;; <a href=3D"mailto:housley@vigilsec.com" target=3D"_blank">housley@vigil=
sec.com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org=
</a>; skku-iotlab-members &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skku-iotlab-members@googleg=
roups.com" target=3D"_blank">skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com</a>&gt;; =
Chris Shen &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:shenyiwen7@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">sh=
enyiwen7@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong
 &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.pa=
ul@gmail.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [EXTERNAL] Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehic=
ular-networking-26.txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<table border=3D"0" cellspacing=3D"3" cellpadding=3D"0" width=3D"100%" styl=
e=3D"width:100%">
<tbody>
<tr>
<td style=3D"background:white;padding:0.75pt"></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">Hi Fred,<br>
Here is the revision of IPWAVE PS Draft:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicula=
r-networking-28" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/dr=
aft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">I attach a revision letter to explain how=C2=A0Chris and I have a=
ddressed your comments<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">on=C2=A0the revision.<br>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Paul<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">On Sat, Feb 26, 2022 at 3:17 AM Templin (US), Fred L &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" target=3D"_blank">Fred.L.Templin@boei=
ng.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin-left:4=
.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Thanks Paul, and I am certainly open to disc=
uss any aspects.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">Fred</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-l=
eft:1.5pt solid blue;padding:0in 0in 0in 4pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border-right:none;border-bottom:none;border-left:none;border-=
top:1pt solid rgb(225,225,225);padding:3pt 0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri=
,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11pt;font-family:Cali=
bri,sans-serif"> Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong [mailto:<a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.p=
aul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.com</a>]
<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, February 24, 2022 3:55 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> Pascal Thubert &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:pthubert@cisco.com" target=
=3D"_blank">pthubert@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Templin (US), Fred L &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com" target=3D"_blank">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.=
com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" target=3D"_blank">Di=
rk.von-Hugo@telekom.de</a>; Erik Kline &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ek.ietf@gmail.=
com" target=3D"_blank">ek.ietf@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@=
gmail.com</a>&gt;;
<a href=3D"mailto:housley@vigilsec.com" target=3D"_blank">housley@vigilsec.=
com</a>; <a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">
its@ietf.org</a>; skku-iotlab-members &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:skku-iotlab-mem=
bers@googlegroups.com" target=3D"_blank">skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.c=
om</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networ=
king-26.txt</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif;color:rgb(31,73,125)">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Hi Fred,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Thanks for your suggested update.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">However, I need the review from Pascal as an INTDIR reviewer.</sp=
an><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Pascal,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Could you review the update from Fred and confirm that his update=
 does not break the balance between the two approaches
 of RPL and AERO/ONMI?</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Thanks.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Best Regards,</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Paul</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">2022</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans=
-serif">=EB=85=84</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,s=
ans-serif">
 2</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=EC=
=9B=94</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=
 25</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=EC=
=9D=BC</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
 (</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=EA=
=B8=88</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=
)
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=EC=98=
=A4=EC=A0=84</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-s=
erif"> 5:51, Templin (US), Fred L &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:Fred.L.Templin@boei=
ng.com" target=3D"_blank">Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com</a>&gt;</span><span sty=
le=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=EB=8B=98=EC=9D=B4</sp=
an><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif">=EC=9E=
=91=EC=84=B1</span><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-s=
erif">:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<blockquote style=3D"border-top:none;border-right:none;border-bottom:none;b=
order-left:1pt solid rgb(204,204,204);padding:0in 0in 0in 6pt;margin:5pt 0i=
n 5pt 4.8pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">All, see below for my comments on &#39;draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicula=
r-networking-26.txt&#39;.<br>
It might be worth noting that my colleagues and I have been looking at vehi=
cular<br>
communications use cases for a long time (e.g., see: RANGERS [RFC6139]).<br=
>
<br>
Indeed, support for vehicular communications of all forms (land, sea, air, =
space)<br>
has long been the driving force behind the AERO and OMNI technologies which=
<br>
have taken their current shape as a result. Please see below for comments a=
nd<br>
make corresponding changes to the document.<br>
<br>
Fred Templin<br>
<br>
---<br>
<br>
Comments on &#39;draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt&#39;:<br>
**************************************************<br>
1) Section 1, change: &quot;Asymmetric Extended Route Optimization (AERO)<b=
r>
[I-D.templin-6man-aero]&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;Automatic Extended Route Optimization based on the Overlay Multilink<=
br>
Network Interface (AERO/OMNI) [I-D.templin-6man-aero][I-D.templin-6man-omni=
]&quot;.<br>
<br>
2) Section 3, change: &quot;The use cases presented in this section serve a=
s<br>
the description and motivation for the need to extend IPv6 and its protocol=
s<br>
to facilitate &quot;Vehicular IPv6&quot;.&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;The use cases presented in this section serve as the description and =
motivation<br>
for the need to augment IPv6 and its protocols to facilitate &quot;Vehicula=
r IPv6&quot;.&quot;<br>
<br>
3) Section 3.2, change the paragraph beginning: &quot;The existing IPv6 pro=
tocol<br>
must be augmented through protocol changes...&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;The existing IPv6 protocol must be augmented either through protocol =
changes<br>
or by including a new adaptation layer in the architecture that efficiently=
<br>
maps IPv6 to a diversity of link layer technologies. Augmentation is necess=
ary<br>
to support wireless multihop V2I communications in a highway where RSUs are=
<br>
sparsely deployed, so a vehicle can reach the wireless coverage of an RSU<b=
r>
through the multihop data forwarding of intermediate vehicles.&quot;<br>
<br>
4) Section 3.3, change the paragraph beginning: &quot;The existing IPv6 pro=
tocol<br>
must be augmented through protocol changes...&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;The existing IPv6 protocol must be augmented through protocol changes=
 or<br>
by including a new adaptation layer in the architecture that efficiently<br=
>
maps IPv6 to a diversity of underlying link layer technologies. Augmentatio=
n<br>
is necessary to support wireless multihop V2X or V2I2X communications in an=
<br>
urban road network where RSUs are deployed at intersections, so a vehicle<b=
r>
(or a pedestrian&#39;s smartphone) can reach the wireless coverage of an RS=
U<br>
through the multihop data forwarding of intermediate vehicles (or pedestria=
ns&#39;<br>
smartphones) as packet forwarders.&quot;<br>
<br>
5) Section 4.1, second paragraph, change: &quot;OMNI (Overlay Multilink Net=
work<br>
Interface) [I-D.templin-6man-omni]&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;AERO/OMNI [I-D.templin-6man-aero][I-D.templin-6man-omni]&quot;.<br>
<br>
6) Section 4.1, third paragraph, change: &quot;Furthermore, the wireless<br=
>
media interfaces are autoconfigured with a global IPv6 prefix<br>
(e.g., 2001:DB8:1:1::/64) to support both V2V and V2I networking. Note<br>
that 2001:DB8::/32 is a documentation prefix [RFC3849] for example<br>
prefixes in this document, and also that any routable IPv6 address<br>
needs to be routable in a VANET and a vehicular network including IP-RSUs.&=
quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;In a first addressing alternative, the wireless media interfaces<br>
are autoconfigured with a global IPv6 prefix (e.g., 2001:DB8:1:1::/64)<br>
to support both V2V and V2I networking. Note that 2001:DB8::/32 is a<br>
documentation prefix [RFC3849] for example prefixes in this document,<br>
and also that any routable IPv6 address needs to be routable in a VANET<br>
and a vehicular network including IP-RSUs. In a second alternative, each<br=
>
wireless media interface is configured with an IPv6 Unique Local Address<br=
>
(ULA) [RFC4193] that is assured unique within the vehicular network<br>
according to AERO/OMNI and [RFC5889]. The ULA supports both V2V and V2I<br>
multihop forwarding within the vehicular network (e.g., via a VANET<br>
routing protocol) while each vehicle can communicate with Internet<br>
correspondents using global IPv6 addresses via OMNI interface<br>
encapsulation over the wireless interface.&quot;<br>
<br>
7) Section 4.1, fifth paragraph, change: &quot;Alternatively, mobile nodes<=
br>
can employ a &quot;Bring-Your-Own-Addresses (BYOA)&quot; technique using th=
eir<br>
own IPv6 Unique Local Addresses (ULAs) [RFC4193] over the wireless<br>
network, which does not require the messaging (e.g., Duplicate Address<br>
Detection (DAD)) of IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC)<br>
[RFC4862].&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;Alternatively, mobile nodes can configure IPv6 Unique Local Addresses=
<br>
(ULAs) according AERO/OMNI then support global communications through<br>
OMNI interface encapsulation and forwarding of packets with MNP-based<br>
global IPv6 addresses over the wireless networks. The use of AERO/OMNI<br>
ULA autoconfiguration assures uniqueness such that Duplicate Address<br>
Detection (DAD) of IPv6 Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC)<br>
[RFC4862] is not needed.&quot;<br>
<br>
8) Section 4.2, add the following as a final paragraph:<br>
&quot;In a second alternative when vehicles configure an OMNI interface ove=
r<br>
an underlying VANET based on ULA addressing, the global IPv6 addresses<br>
covered by the MNP on-board the vehicle are not injected into the VANET<br>
routing system but instead traverse the VANET in the forwarding plane<br>
via OMNI encapsulation. This allows each vehicle to maintain a constant<br>
and unchanging MNP delegation even as it moves between IP-RSUs. This<br>
avoids any need for vehicle on-board network renumbering due to<br>
mobility and avoids repeated injections and withdrawals of MNP<br>
prefixes within the VANET.&quot;<br>
<br>
9) Section 4.3, add new paragraph following paragraph beginning<br>
&quot;Figure 3 shows the internetworking&quot; as follows:<br>
&quot;When two vehicles within a ULA-based VANET need to communicate withou=
t<br>
the assistance of any infrastructure, they can exchange unencapsulated<br>
IPv6 packets with ULA-based addresses which will be forwarded according<br>
to the VANET routing protocol. Alternatively, the vehicles can use OMNI<br>
interface encapsulation to exchange IPv6 packets with global addresses<br>
taken from their respective MNPs. The encapsulation source and destination<=
br>
ULAs are algorithmically bound to the IPv6 source and destination global<br=
>
addresses which allows for stateless encapsulation address determination.&q=
uot;<br>
<br>
10) Section 4.3, final paragraph, there is no reason to cite as examples<br=
>
all RFC variants of the OLSR protocol and all extensions of the DLEP<br>
protocol - pick one (or at most 2) RFCs for each. Also, it is important<br>
to state that standard OSPF routing has been optimized to support MANET<br>
applications. Suggested rewrite:<br>
&quot;...which serves MANET routing protocols such as the different version=
s<br>
of Optimized Link State Routing Protocol (OLSR) [RFC3626][RFC7181], Open<br=
>
Shortest Path First (OSPF) derivatives (e.g., [RFC5614]) and the Dynamic<br=
>
Link Exchange Protocol (DLEP) [RFC8175] with its extensions.&quot;<br>
<br>
11) Section 5.1, second paragraph, change: &quot;they need to be configured=
<br>
with a link-local IPv6 address or a global IPv6 address&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;they need to be configured with link-local, unique-local and/or globa=
l<br>
IPv6 addresses&quot;<br>
<br>
12) Section 5.2, third paragraph, change: &quot;An efficient DAD is require=
d<br>
to reduce the overhead of the DAD packets during a vehicle&#39;s travel in<=
br>
a road network&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;DAD is not needed in networks that follow the OMNI ULA autoconfigurat=
ion<br>
procedures. In other cases when DAD is needed, it must be made efficient<br=
>
to reduce the overhead of the DAD packets during a vehicle&#39;s travel in<=
br>
a road network&quot;<br>
<br>
13) Section 5.1.1, third paragraph, change: &quot;There is a relationship<b=
r>
between a link and a prefix, besides the different scopes that are<br>
expected from the link-local and global types of IPv6 addresses.&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;There is a relationship between a link and a prefix, besides the <br>
different scopes that are expected from the link-local, unique-local<br>
and global types of IPv6 addresses.&quot;<br>
<br>
14) Section 5.1.1, add a new second-to-last paragraph as follows:<br>
&quot;Often when two VANETs merge some vehicles may configure addresses fro=
m<br>
a first subnet prefix while other vehicles configure addresses from other<b=
r>
subnet prefixes. These merge events must not interfere with the<br>
vehicle-to-vehicle multihop forwarding necessary to support continuous<br>
communications. Additionally, when a vehicle enters the network for the<br>
first time it may need to use a temporary ULA address in initial messages<b=
r>
to negotiate with an IP-RSU for an address within the subnet. The VANET<br>
must therefore provide (short-term) forwarding for vehicles with foreign<br=
>
addresses, while the subnet prefix serves as an aggregation point of<br>
reference for a particular IP-RSU without impeding multihop forwarding<br>
between vehicles that may belong to different subnets.&quot;<br>
<br>
15) Section 5.1.3 goes too far in expanding on RPL. It is based on the<br>
claim that: &quot;However, it will be costly to run both vehicular ND and a=
<br>
vehicular ad hoc routing protocol in terms of control traffic overhead<br>
[RFC9119].&quot;. But, the AERO/OMNI approach uses only the MANET routing<b=
r>
protocol control messages at the subnet level then applies unicast-only<br>
IPv6 ND messaging at the OMNI interface level so that there is no traffic<b=
r>
amplification due to multicast IPv6 ND within the subnet. Therefore, a<br>
new third paragraph telling how it works in AERO/OMNI should be added<br>
as follows:<br>
&quot;The AERO/OMNI approach avoids this issue by using MANET routing proto=
cols<br>
only (i.e., and no multicast IPv6 ND messaging) in the wireless network<br>
underlay while applying efficient unicast IPv6 ND messaging in the OMNI<br>
overlay on an as-needed basis for router discovery and NUD. This greatly<br=
>
reduces the overhead for VANET-wide multicasting while providing agile<br>
accommodation for dynamic topology changes.&quot;<br>
<br>
Additionally, the RPL text should be reduced by at least 50%.<br>
<br>
16) Section 5.2, paragraph 6 change: &quot;Even though the SLAAC with class=
ic<br>
ND costs a DAD during mobility management, the SLAAC with [RFC8505] does<br=
>
not cost a DAD.&quot;<br>
to:<br>
&quot;Even though classic IPv6 ND requires the use of DAD on many link type=
s<br>
during mobility management, address autoconfiguration based on [RFC8505]<br=
>
and/or AERO/OMNI does not require DAD.&quot;<br>
<br>
17) Section 5.2, paragraph 6, remove the following text entirely:<br>
&quot;On the other hand, a BYOA does not allow such direct routability<br>
to the Internet since the BYOA is not topologically correct, that is,<br>
not routable in the Internet. In addition, a vehicle configured with<br>
a BYOA needs a tunnel home (e.g., IP-RSU) connected to the Internet,<br>
and the vehicle needs to know which neighboring vehicle is reachable<br>
inside the VANET toward the tunnel home. There is nonnegligible control<br>
overhead to set up and maintain routes to such a tunnel home over<br>
the VANET.&quot;<br>
<br>
Reason: There is always a cost for maintaining mobility management<br>
for addresses within an MNP. It can be done either by frequent<br>
advertisements/withdrawals of the MNP in the global routing system or<br>
through coordination with a mobility anchor point in an overlay via<br>
encapsulation. The Connexion by Boeing experience showed that dynamic<br>
routing protocol updates do not scale in the global Internet. The<br>
AERO/OMNI services instead minimize routing protocol disturbance<br>
while using efficient mobility signaling in the overlay.<br>
<br>
18) Section 5.2, near the end, remove the following sentence: &quot;IP<br>
tunneling over the wireless link should be avoided for performance<br>
efficiency.&quot;<br>
<br>
Reason: IP tunneling is used only in support of global-scoped IPv6<br>
communication (not local-scoped) and can use effective header<br>
compression for greater efficiency as in AERO/OMNI. In addition,<br>
there is value in using encapsulation both from the standpoint of<br>
minimizing global routing protocol overhead and by accommodating<br>
path MTU diversity (see below).<br>
<br>
19) Add a new Section 5.3 as follows:<br>
&quot;5.3 Accommodating MTU Diversity<br>
<br>
The wireless and/or wired-line links in paths between both mobile<br>
nodes and fixed network correspondents may configure a variety of<br>
Maximum Transmission Units (MTUs), where all IPv6 links are required<br>
to support a minimum MTU of 1280 octets and MAY support larger MTUs.<br>
Unfortunately, determining the path MTU (i.e., the minimum link MTU<br>
in the path) has proven to be inefficient and unreliable due to the<br>
uncertain nature of the loss-oriented ICMPv6 messaging service used<br>
for path MTU discovery. Recent developments have produced a more<br>
reliable path MTU determination service for TCP [RFC4821] and UDP<br>
[RFC8899] however the MTUs discovered are always limited by the most<br>
restrictive link MTU in the path (often 1500 octets or smaller).<br>
<br>
The AERO/OMNI service addresses the MTU issue by introducing a new<br>
layer in the Internet architecture known as the &quot;OMNI Adaptation Layer=
<br>
(OAL)&quot;. The OAL allows end systems that configure an OMNI interface<br=
>
to utilize a full 65535 octet MTU by leveraging the IPv6 fragmentation<br>
and reassembly service during encapsulation to produce fragment sizes<br>
that are assured of traversing the path without loss due to a<br>
size restriction. (This allows end systems to send packets that are<br>
often much larger than the actual path MTU.)<br>
<br>
Performance studies over the course of many decades have proven that<br>
applications will see greater performance by sending smaller numbers<br>
of large packets (as opposed to larger numbers of small packets) even<br>
if fragmentation is needed. The OAL further supports even larger packet<br>
sizes through the IP Parcels construct [I-D.templin-intarea-parcels]<br>
which provides &quot;packet-in-packet&quot; encapsulation for a total size =
up<br>
to 4MB. Together, the OAL and IP Parcels will provide a revolutionary<br>
new capability for greater efficiency in both mobile and fixed networks.&qu=
ot;<br>
<br>
20) Appendix B, add the following as a final paragraph:<br>
&quot;AERO and OMNI together securely and efficiently address the following=
<br>
6 M&#39;s of Modern Internetworking for mobile V2V, V2I and V2X Clients:<br=
>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A01.=C2=A0 Multilink: A Client&#39;s ability to coordinate multi=
ple diverse<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0underlying data links as a single logical unit (=
i.e., the OMNI<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0interface) to achieve the required communication=
s performance and<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reliability objectives.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A02.=C2=A0 Multinet: The ability to span the OMNI link over a se=
gment<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0routing topology with multiple diverse administr=
ative domain<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0network segments while maintaining seamless E2E =
communications<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0between mobile Clients and correspondents such a=
s air traffic<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0controllers and fleet administrators.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A03.=C2=A0 Mobility: A Client&#39;s ability to change network po=
ints of<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0attachment (e.g., moving between wireless base s=
tations) which<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0may result in an underlying interface address ch=
ange without<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0disruptions to ongoing communication sessions wi=
th peers over the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OMNI link.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A04.=C2=A0 Multicast: The ability to send a single network trans=
mission that<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reaches multiple Clients belonging to the same i=
nterest group<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0without disturbing other Clients not subscribed =
to the interest<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0group.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A05.=C2=A0 Multihop: A mobile Client&#39;s V2V relaying capabili=
ty useful when<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0multiple forwarding hops between vehicles may be=
 necessary to<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0reach back to an infrastructure access point con=
nection to the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0OMNI link.<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A06.=C2=A0 MTU Assurance: The ability to deliver packets of vari=
ous robust<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0sizes between peers without loss due to a link s=
ize restriction,<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0and to dynamically adjust packet sizes in order =
to achieve the<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0optimal performance for each independent traffic=
 flow.&quot;</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">--
</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D<br>
Mr. Jaehoon (Paul) Jeong, Ph.D.<br>
Associate Professor</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Calibri,sa=
ns-serif">Department Head<br>
Department of Computer Science and Engineering<br>
Sungkyunkwan University<br>
Office: +82-31-299-4957<br>
Email: <a href=3D"mailto:pauljeong@skku.edu" target=3D"_blank"><span style=
=3D"font-size:9.5pt">pauljeong@skku.edu</span></a>,=C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:=
jaehoon.paul@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">jaehoon.paul@gmail.com</a><br>
Personal Homepage: <a href=3D"http://cpslab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.p=
hp" target=3D"_blank">
http://iotlab.skku.edu/people-jaehoon-jeong.php</a></span><u></u><u></u></p=
>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div>

--000000000000363fed05dbd693f7--


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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
CC: Pascal Thubert <pthubert@cisco.com>, "Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de" <Dirk.von-Hugo@telekom.de>, Erik Kline <ek.ietf@gmail.com>, "housley@vigilsec.com" <housley@vigilsec.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>, Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [EXTERNAL] Re: [ipwave] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
Thread-Index: AdhINGHMwdaVFw+WQSyOXnygW432fQARsn4AAA5MTDA=
Date: Mon, 4 Apr 2022 17:00:48 +0000
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Subject: Re: [ipwave] [EXTERNAL] Re: I-D Action: draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-26.txt
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Lars Eggert has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28: No Objection

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email addresses included in the To and CC lines. (Feel free to cut this
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The document, along with other ballot positions, can be found here:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking/



----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Section 1. , paragraph 5, comment:
>    Along with these WAVE standards and C-V2X standards, regardless of a
>    wireless access technology under the IP stack of a vehicle, vehicular
>    networks can operate IP mobility with IPv6 [RFC8200] and Mobile IPv6
>    protocols (e.g., Mobile IPv6 (MIPv6) [RFC6275], Proxy MIPv6 (PMIPv6)
>    [RFC5213], Distributed Mobility Management (DMM) [RFC7333], Network
>    Mobility (NEMO) [RFC3963], Locator/ID Separation Protocol (LISP)
>    [I-D.ietf-lisp-rfc6830bis], and Automatic Extended Route Optimization
>    based on the Overlay Multilink Network Interface (AERO/OMNI)
>    [I-D.templin-6man-aero] [I-D.templin-6man-omni]).  In addition, ISO
>    has approved a standard specifying the IPv6 network protocols and
>    services to be used for Communications Access for Land Mobiles (CALM)
>    [ISO-ITS-IPv6][ISO-ITS-IPv6-AMD1].

Isn't it a bit premature to list AERO and OMNI alongside a number of published
standards from the IETF and other organizations? As far as I know they are
individual documents that have not been adopted? (Here and elsewhere in the
document.)

Found terminology that should be reviewed for inclusivity; see
https://www.rfc-editor.org/part2/#inclusive_language for background and more
guidance:

 * Term "invalid"; alternatives might be "not valid", "unenforceable", "not
   binding", "inoperative", "illegitimate", "incorrect", "improper",
   "unacceptable", "inapplicable", "revoked", "rescinded".

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
NIT
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
All comments below are about very minor potential issues that you may choose to
address in some way - or ignore - as you see fit. Some were flagged by
automated tools (via https://github.com/larseggert/ietf-reviewtool), so there
will likely be some false positives. There is no need to let me know what you
did with these suggestions.

Section 5.2. , paragraph 7, nit:
-    home.  There is nonnegligible control overhead to set up and maintain
+    home.  There is non-negligible control overhead to set up and maintain
+                       +

Section 1. , paragraph 3, nit:
> 9.4 [WAVE-1609.4] specifies the multi-channel operation. IEEE 802.11p was fi
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This word is normally spelled as one.

Section 4.1. , paragraph 7, nit:
> arty. To minimize this kind of risk, an reinforced identification and verific
>                                      ^^
Use "a" instead of "an" if the following word doesn't start with a vowel sound,
e.g. "a sentence", "a university".

Section 4.3. , paragraph 17, nit:
> livered to relevant vehicles in an efficient way (e.g., multicasting). With
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Consider replacing this phrase with the adverb "efficiently" to avoid
wordiness.

Section 4.3. , paragraph 17, nit:
> layers (e.g., IPv6, TCP, and UDP). Hence the bandwidth selection according t
>                                    ^^^^^
A comma may be missing after the conjunctive/linking adverb "Hence".

Section 5.1.1. , paragraph 4, nit:
> y with standard IPv6 links in an efficient fashion to support IPv6 DAD, MLD a
>                            ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Consider replacing this phrase with the adverb "efficiently" to avoid
wordiness.

Section 5.1.2. , paragraph 2, nit:
> ergy constraints, RPL does not suggest to use a proactive mechanism (e.g., k
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The verb "suggest" is used with the gerund form.

Section 5.2. , paragraph 4, nit:
> lic Key Infrastructure (PKI) in an efficient way. To provide safe interactio
>                              ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Consider replacing this phrase with the adverb "efficiently" to avoid
wordiness.

Section 5.2. , paragraph 5, nit:
> other servers behind an IP-RSU in a secure way. Even though a vehicle is per
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Consider replacing this phrase with the adverb "securely" to avoid wordiness.

Section 5.2. , paragraph 8, nit:
> eceived ND message, which requires to use the CGA ND option in the ND protoc
>                                    ^^^^^^
Did you mean "using"? Or maybe you should add a pronoun? In active voice,
"require" + "to" takes an object, usually a pronoun.

Section 6. , paragraph 3, nit:
>  taking a safe maneuver. Since cyber security issues in vehicular networks ma
>                                ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The word "cybersecurity" is spelled as one.

Section 6.1. , paragraph 4, nit:
> ensus algorithm needs to be developed or an existing consensus algorithm need
>                                      ^^^
Use a comma before "or" if it connects two independent clauses (unless they are
closely connected and short).

Section 8.2. , paragraph 7, nit:
>  Device-free human counting through WiFi fine-grained subcarrier information
>                                     ^^^^
Did you mean "Wi-Fi"? (This is the officially approved term by the Wi-Fi
Alliance.).

Section 8.2. , paragraph 23, nit:
> unction (called OF), which allows to adapt the activity of the routing proto
>                                   ^^^^^^^^
Did you mean "adapting"? Or maybe you should add a pronoun? In active voice,
"allow" + "to" takes an object, usually a pronoun.

"Appendix B. ", paragraph 5, nit:
> ST, CEA Saclay, Gif-sur-Yvette, Ile-de-France 91190, France, Phone: +33169089
>                                 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"Ile-de-France" is an imported foreign expression, which originally has a
diacritic. Consider using "Île-de-France".

Uncited references: [RFC3849].




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From: "Templin (US), Fred L" <Fred.L.Templin@boeing.com>
To: Lars Eggert <lars@eggert.org>, The IESG <iesg@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking@ietf.org>, "cjbc@it.uc3m.es" <cjbc@it.uc3m.es>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, "ipwave-chairs@ietf.org" <ipwave-chairs@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [ipwave] Lars Eggert's No Objection on draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28: (with COMMENT)
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Subject: Re: [ipwave] Lars Eggert's No Objection on draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28: (with COMMENT)
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Hello everyone,

Like Beetlejuice his name having been thrice invoked, the ISE appears.

On 05.04.22 16:28, Templin (US), Fred L wrote:
> Lars, to respond very directly no it is not premature to list AERO and OMNI.
> They are in the RFC-ISE editors queue for publication as Informational RFCs
> at the current time, and the RFC-ISE tells me he is actively seeking reviewers.

This is correct.  The current state of these drafts is that they are 
awaiting the ISE review.  Assuming they get beyond that point, and some 
drafts do not, the ISE will solicit reviews.   The ISE always welcomes 
*un*solicited reviews at any stage prior to publication.  I am 
particularly interested in hearing from those who either are 
implementing OMNI and AERO or are planning to do so in the very near 
future.  As a reminder, the ISE reserves the right to decline 
publication at any stage prior to RFCs being issued.

> If some working group wants to adopt them, then I am sure the RFC-ISE
> would be willing to shift them to a working group track.

As a matter of policy, the ISE will always honor the wishes of authors 
to remove drafts from the Independent Stream queue.  It is, of course, 
up to the IETF to decide whether to adopt any particular draft for 
further work.

> But, as far as
> revisions go, they are now in what would be considered a "last call" status.

The ISE does not issue last calls, and each of these drafts is closer to 
the beginning of the process, rather than the end.

If you have any questions about ISE process, please see 
https://www.rfc-editor.org/about/independent/ or otherwise feel free to 
contact me directly.

Eliot (ISE)

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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
  </head>
  <body>
    <p>Hello everyone,</p>
    <p>Like Beetlejuice his name having been thrice invoked, the ISE
      appears.<br>
    </p>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 05.04.22 16:28, Templin (US), Fred L
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:a7c0dbc1507e448ca141f8ed06914f59@boeing.com">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">Lars, to respond very directly no it is not premature to list AERO and OMNI.
They are in the RFC-ISE editors queue for publication as Informational RFCs
at the current time, and the RFC-ISE tells me he is actively seeking reviewers.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>This is correct.  The current state of these drafts is that they
      are awaiting the ISE review.  Assuming they get beyond that point,
      and some drafts do not, the ISE will solicit reviews.   The ISE
      always welcomes <b>un</b>solicited reviews at any stage prior to
      publication.  I am particularly interested in hearing from those
      who either are implementing OMNI and AERO or are planning to do so
      in the very near future.  As a reminder, the ISE reserves the
      right to decline publication at any stage prior to RFCs being
      issued.</p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:a7c0dbc1507e448ca141f8ed06914f59@boeing.com">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">If some working group wants to adopt them, then I am sure the RFC-ISE
would be willing to shift them to a working group track. </pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>As a matter of policy, the ISE will always honor the wishes of
      authors to remove drafts from the Independent Stream queue.  It
      is, of course, up to the IETF to decide whether to adopt any
      particular draft for further work.<br>
    </p>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:a7c0dbc1507e448ca141f8ed06914f59@boeing.com">
      <pre class="moz-quote-pre" wrap="">But, as far as
revisions go, they are now in what would be considered a "last call" status.</pre>
    </blockquote>
    <p>The ISE does not issue last calls, and each of these drafts is
      closer to the beginning of the process, rather than the end.</p>
    <p>If you have any questions about ISE process, please see
      <a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.rfc-editor.org/about/independent/">https://www.rfc-editor.org/about/independent/</a> or otherwise feel
      free to contact me directly.<br>
    </p>
    <p>Eliot (ISE)<br>
    </p>
  </body>
</html>

--------------CShKTqr8RyjLqLMc2M0BkMoe--


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Roman Danyliw has entered the following ballot position for
draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-28: Discuss

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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I had difficulty in understanding the bounds for the scope of the use cases and
proposed architecture.  At times I had trouble understanding what was an
example of related work, and what was narrative formally describing the gaps in
IPv6 for vehicular networking.  In that spirit:

** The Privacy Considerations are under-specified:

-- Section 6.3 suggests the needs for logging, “To deal with this kind of
security issue, for monitoring suspicious behaviors, vehicles' communication
activities can be recorded in either a central way through a logging server
(e.g., TCC) in the vehicular cloud or a distributed way (e.g., blockchain
[Bitcoin]) along with other vehicles or infrastructure.  To solve the issue
ultimately, we need a solution where, without    privacy breakage, …”.  Some
discussion on the “privacy breakage” is needed.  What exactly would be the
trade offs between a centralized vs. distributed log?  Who would get to see
this information?  What is sensitive about this information?

-- Section 5.1.2 and 6.3 highlights the use of MAC address pseudonyms.  This is
helpful.  More discussion is needed about the associate privacy threat being
mitigated.  Section 6.3 mentions an “adversary from tracking a vehicle” which I
think means a passive observer of the path.  However, there are other entities
in which ecosystem – what is the privacy exposure to the TCC, V2I, etc?  The
opening in Section 6 notes that “vehicles and infrastructure must be
authenticated” and those credentials (perhaps bound to even MAC pseudonyms)
would also facilitate tracking even given MAC pseudonyms.  Section 6.1 explicit
comments on using VINs in certificates.  Who are the assumed trusted actors?

-- Section 3.3 notes a V2P use case where the pedestrian’s smart-phone is
sharing unspecified information.  Does that include location information?  Who
gets it?  What kind of identifiers are shared?

** Section 4.2

   Note that it is dangerous if the
   internal network of a vehicle is controlled by a malicious party.  To
   minimize this kind of risk, an reinforced identification and
   verification protocol shall be implemented.

-- What are these dangers?

-- What is a ‘reinforced identification’?

-- Who are the parties in this verification protocol?  What security properties
is this verification providing?

** Section 6.
   Vehicles and infrastructure must be authenticated in order to
   participate in vehicular networking.

Authenticated with respect to whom? Vehicles to infrastructure and vice-versa? 
Or to someone else?

** Section 6 makes references to “secure communication” – what is the expected
key management approach and is that in scope?

** The need for safety properties (very helpful) is asserted multiple times but
not further discussed in the Security Considerations:

-- Section 3:
       In addition, IPv6
      security needs to be extended to support those V2V use cases in a
      safe, secure, privacy-preserving way.

-- Section 3.1:
      To support applications of these V2V use cases, the required
     functions of IPv6 include IPv6-based packet exchange and secure,
     safe communication between two vehicles.

-- Section 3.3:
   To support applications of these V2X use cases, the required
   functions of IPv6 include IPv6-based packet exchange, transport-layer
   session continuity, and secure, safe communication between a vehicle
   and a pedestrian either directly or indirectly via an IP-RSU.


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you to Daniel Migault for the SECDIR review.

** Section 1.  Editorial
   Vehicular networking studies have mainly focused on improving safety
   and efficiency, and also enabling entertainment in vehicular
   networks.

This first sentence is unrelated to the reset of the paragraph which is focused
on spectrum allocation.

** Section 1.

   Most countries and regions in
   the world have adopted the same frequency allocation for vehicular
   networks.

This statement seems incongruent with the previous two sentences which describe
how the US and EU have allocated very similar but not “same” spectrum (5.850 –
5.925 vs. 5.875 vs. 5.905).

** Section 2.  Edge Computing is defined but doesn’t seem to be used in the
rest of the document beyond in ECD.  Is it needed?

** Section 2.

IP-OBU: "Internet Protocol On-Board Unit": An IP-OBU denotes a
      computer situated in a vehicle

Is this “computer” the same as an ECD defined earlier in the section?

** Section 3.1.  Editorial.

   These five techniques will be important elements for autonomous
   vehicles, which may be either terrestrial vehicles or UAM end
   systems.

This sentence seems to suggest that all give techniques are relevant to both
terrestrial and UAMs.  As far as I can tell, the first three (1 – 3) are
terrestrial related, the fourth is relevant to both terrestrial and UAM, and
the fifth is UAM only.

** Section 3.1

   To encourage more vehicles to participate in this cooperative
   environmental sensing, a reward system will be needed.  Sensing
   activities of each vehicle need to be logged in either a central way
   through a logging server (e.g., TCC) in the vehicular cloud or a
   distributed way (e.g., blockchain [Bitcoin]) through other vehicles
   or infrastructure.  In the case of a blockchain, each sensing message
   from a vehicle can be treated as a transaction and the neighboring
   vehicles can play the role of peers in a consensus method of a
   blockchain [Bitcoin][Vehicular-BlockChain].

I’m struggling to link this proposed solution to stated uses case or
gap-analysis for IPv6.  Can the IPv6 enablers be described.

** Section 3.2.  Typo?  s/air firmware/over-the-air firmware/.  If not a typo,
what is an “air firmware/software update”?

** Section 3.2. Editorial?
   For this battery charging schedule, a UAM
   end system can communicate with an infrastructure node (e.g., IP-RSU)
   toward a cloud server via V2I communications.

Is there is a missing word here.  What does it mean to “... communicate with an
infrastructure node … toward a cloud server”

** Section 4.2

   It is reasonable to consider the
   interaction between the internal network and an external network
   within another vehicle or an EN.

Can the intent of this be clarified?  Isn’t something on the internal vehicle
network talking to another vehicle the definition of V2V per Section 3.1?

** Section 4.2.  Is there any expectation of any perimeter-based policy
enforcement between this internal network and the edge network (e.g.,
firewall?).

** Section 4.3.  Is there implicit trust between the platooning vehicles? 
Security impact if one becomes untrusted?

** Section 5.
   For safe driving, vehicles need to exchange application messages
   every 0.5 second [NHTSA-ACAS-Report] to let drivers take an action to
   avoid a dangerous situation (e.g., vehicle collision), so IPv6
   protocol exchanges  need to support this order of magnitude for
   application message exchanges.

This is a helpful performance envelope.  Can this be more tightly linked to
IPv6?  It seems like this kind of performance is related to the capabilities of
the link layer to move the IPv6 packets fast enough.

** Section 5.1.1
   For instance, some IPv6 protocols assume symmetry in the connectivity
   among neighboring interfaces [RFC6250].

RFC6250 (Section 3.1.1) seems to be saying the opposite of this sentence which
is that symmetry can’t be assumed.  What protocols are making this assumption?

** Section 5.1.2

   However, the pseudonym handling is not
   implemented and tested yet for applications on IP-based vehicular
   networking.

No issues.  However, isn’t this true for all of the VIP and VND work (as in, it
needs more testing)?

** Section 6.

   For the authentication in
   vehicular networks, vehicular cloud needs to support a kind of Public
   Key Infrastructure (PKI) in an efficient way.

What does the qualifier of “a kind of” PKI mean?

** Section 6

   Also, in-vehicle devices (e.g.,
   ECU) and a driver/passenger's mobile devices (e.g., smartphone and
   tablet PC) in a vehicle need to communicate with other in-vehicle
   devices and another driver/passenger's mobile devices in another
   vehicle, or other servers behind an IP-RSU in a secure way.

Is securing arbitrary communication between a smartphone-A in vehicle-1 and
smartphone-B in vehicle-2 in scope?

** Section 6.
   Even
   though a vehicle is perfectly authenticated and legitimate,

What does it mean for a vehicle to be legitimate?  Authenticated to whom?

** Section 6
   Note that when driver/passenger's mobile devices are
   connected to a vehicle's internal network, the vehicle may be more
   vulnerable to possible attacks from external networks.

This doesn’t seem framed right.  Why is it _more vulnerable_?  More relative to
what?  I think the central idea is that like any network (e.g., public library,
IETF conference network), the end-node assumes risk of its packets transiting a
network it doesn’t control, and exposes itself to “local network/segment”
attacks of any peer nodes on the network.

** Section 6.3
   Alternatively, for
   completely secure vehicular networks, we shall embrace the concept of
   "zero-trust" for vehicles in which no vehicle is trustable and
   verifying every message is necessary.  For doing so, we shall have an
   efficient zero-trust framework or mechanism for vehicular networks.

-- What is a “completely secure vehicular network”?

-- There seems to be an architecture mismatch in this aspirational zero trust
architecture.  How does the premise of “verifying every message” align with
focus of this document being IPv6 protocol mechanisms.  What is an “IPv6
message”?  Is that a packet?  It would seem to me that these messages would be
application layer matters.

** Section 6.3

Each message from a
   vehicle can be treated as a transaction and the neighboring vehicles
   can play the role of peers in a consensus method of a blockchain
   [Bitcoin] [Vehicular-BlockChain].

Same comment as for ZT -- what is an “IPv6 message” that could be put on a
blockchain?

** Section 6.3

   For the non-repudiation of the harmful activities of malicious nodes,
   a blockchain technology can be used [Bitcoin].  Each message from a
   vehicle can be treated as a transaction and the neighboring vehicles
   can play the role of peers in a consensus method of a blockchain
   [Bitcoin] [Vehicular-BlockChain].  For a blockchain's efficient
   consensus in vehicular networks having fast moving vehicles, a new
   consensus algorithm needs to be developed or an existing consensus
   algorithm needs to be enhanced.

Given the architecture layout in Figures 1 – 5?  Where does this block live? 
Who checks it?  Under what circumstances?  It isn’t clear how this
architectural construct is linked a gap analysis of IPv6 for vehicular
networking.




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----------------------------------------------------------------------
DISCUSS:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the work put into this document. I found the use cases part of
section 3.1 very interesting to read even if some of them seem very far fetched
;-)

Please find below some blocking DISCUSS points (easy to address though), some
non-blocking COMMENT points (but replies would be appreciated even if only for
my own education), and some nits.

Special thanks to

- Carlos Bernardos for the shepherd's write-up even if a justification for the
informational status would have been welcome but the WG consensus description
is appreciated.

- Pascal Thubert for his IETF last call INT directorate review at:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-20-intdir-lc-thubert-2021-06-18/
and for his IESG telechat INT directorate review
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/review-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27-intdir-telechat-thubert-2022-02-28/
Pascal's Last Call & telechat reviews were (at least partially) acted upon by
Paul ;-)

I hope that this helps to improve the document,

Regards,

-éric

# DISCUSS

As noted in https://www.ietf.org/blog/handling-iesg-ballot-positions/, a
DISCUSS ballot is a request to have a discussion on the following topics:

## Abstract & Section 1

"then enumerates requirements for the extensions of those IPv6 protocols" does
not match any IPWAVE WG work item, i.e., it is outside the scope of the charter
of IPWAVE WG. As the document does not explicitly specify requirements, I
strongly suggest to use the word "gaps" rather than "requirements" in the
abstract and section 1.

## Section 4.1

Using an IPv6 address out of a ULA prefix still requires DAD. So the text below
should be updated to be corrected:
  "their own IPv6 Unique Local Addresses
   (ULAs) [RFC4193] over the wireless network, which does not require
   the messaging (e.g., Duplicate Address Detection (DAD)) of IPv6
   Stateless Address Autoconfiguration (SLAAC) [RFC4862]."

## Section 4.2

Very similar comment as above (i.e., DAD & MLD must be done for all IPv6
addresses of an interface and not only for the global one):
  "... When global IPv6
   addresses are used, wireless interface configuration and control
   overhead for DAD"

## Section 5.2
  "... If DHCPv6 is used to assign
   a unique IPv6 address to each vehicle in this shared link, DAD is not
   required. "
This is incorrect and must be changed (see section 18.2.10.1. of RFC 8415)


----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


# COMMENTS

"100km/h as the speed limit in highway" will make many European drivers smile
as it is really slow...

## Section 1

"Most countries and regions in the world have adopted the same frequency
allocation for vehicular networks." but there are TWO frequency allocations
described just before, so, which one has been adopted ?

## Section 2

"GPS" is just the USA commercial example of the more generic "global navigation
satellite system" (GNSS), GNSS should be used in this document.

As IP-RSU have at least 2 interfaces, should "Also, it may have *the* third
IP-enabled wireless interface" be replaced by "Also, it may have *a* third
IP-enabled wireless interface" ?

LiDAR ... "by measuring the reflected pulsed light" but on which kind of
metrics ?

## Section 3.1

Should the 1st and 5th bullets be grouped together ?

Please describe "UAM" (e.g., in the terminology section) as it is unclear to
the reader whether it is a crewed / uncrewed aircraft.

If both road and air vehicles are use case, what about river / sea ships or
trains ?

Does the paragraph about "reward system" belong to the use case ? It rather
sounds like a business requirement. Suggest to remove this part.

Like written by Pascal Thubert in his telechat review, the last paragraph
"IPv6-based packet exchange and secure" should be clear that this is not only
about data plane traffic but also control plane L2/L3 ones. Please also use the
Oxford comma, i.e., add a "," after "exchange".

## Section 3.2

Suggest to also mention "5G" after "IP-RSU or 4G-LTE networks"

How is the UAM use case different from a driverless terrestrial EV ? Suggest to
merge those use cases.

## Section 4.1

As noted by other ADs, "Existing network architectures," the list should not
include OMNI yet as it is not deployed and would probably not be described as
an architecture.

"the wireless media interfaces are autoconfigured with a global IPv6 prefix",
is it the same shared prefix or multiple prefixes ?

Is "RSU" the same concept as "IP-RSU" ?

The last paragraph is about TCP session continuity, but does not explain why
multi-path TCP or QUIC session resumption cannot be used.

## Section 4.2

The computation about "dwell time" is interesting even if it is computed in the
best case. But, I really wonder whether using IPv6 and routing are applicable
to the use case as opposed to more layer-2 + tunnel solutions (like 3GPP) with
such short time for hand-over. I am a strong supporter of layer-3 (IPv6 and
routing), but I cannot refrain from thinking that IPv6 is the wrong technical
solution for those use cases... Was this discussed in the WG ?

## Section 5.1

What is "legacy DAD" ?

  "...the NA interval needs to be
   dynamically adjusted according to a vehicle's speed so that the
   vehicle can maintain its neighboring vehicles in a stable way"
With the issues linked to multicast over wireless, are the authors and the WG
sure that increasing the amount of multicast will not aggravate the problem ?
See RFC 9119 (cited as a normative down reference)

## Section 5.1.2

Please add some references to the MADINAS WG current work items. The authors
may also consider adding this use case to the MADINAS use case.

"The pseudonym of a MAC address affects an IPv6 address based on the MAC
address", nearly no implementations use EUI-64 anymore so this part should
probably be removed from the document. But, the change of MAC address probably
has other impact on the IP stack, e.g., the neighbour cache.

## Section 5.1.3

AFAIK, RPL relies on messages to discover the topology and I am afraid that in
such a moving / dynamic environment, there will be too many of RPL messages.
Will RPL scale in this ever changing network ? Please note that I am not a RPL
expert.

## Section 6.1

Some explanations on how SEND protects against DAD flooding would be welcome.

Is "classical IPv6 ND" the same as the previously used "legacy ND" ?

Wondering why "Vehicle Identification Number (VIN)" is suggested to be used as
SubjectAltName in a certificate rather than a car manufacturer cert ?

## Section 6.3

The part about bitcoin and blockchain errs probably too far away from the IETF
remit.

## Appendix B

I fail to understand how RPL and OMNI can be compared as they are vastly
different technologies (routing vs. tunneling).

"In OMNI protocol, each wireless media interface is configured with an IPv6
Unique Local Address (ULA)" but from my last read of OMNI drafts (1+ year ago),
the OMNI virtual interface can have a ULA indeed but the wireless physical ones
are using any prefix.

## Appendix D

What will be the impact of high packet loss rate (that I am expecting on such
networks) on IP parcels ?

# NITS

Please check that all IPv6 addresses are in lowercase (e.g., in section 4.1).




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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------


I support Roman's and Eric's DISCUSS positions.  I, too, found the line between
examples and gaps/requirements to be blurry, at best.

This document lists more than 40 Normative references!  Most (all?) of them
point at examples of potential technology or are there as background.  For
example, the first few point at MLD/MLDv2, OLSR, NEMO, and a couple of
documents about terminology and documentation -- all clearly informative.

This is how the IESG Statement on Normative and Informative References [1]
characterizes them:

   Within an RFC, references to other documents fall into two general
   categories: "normative" and "informative". Normative references specify
   documents that must be read to understand or implement the technology
   in the new RFC, or whose technology must be present for the technology
   in the new RFC to work. An informative reference is not normative;
   rather, it only provides additional information. For example, an
   informative reference might provide background or historical information.
   Informative references are not required to implement the technology in
   the RFC.

Please examine the references and classify them accordingly.

[1]
https://www.ietf.org/about/groups/iesg/statements/normative-informative-references/




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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thanks for working on this informational document.

I found this document a good read from the vehicular connectivity and
networking point of view, however, there are some cases where the descriptions
are not clear to convey the message and required ask.  Specially in section 4
and section 6. I think Roman already have covered most of those. Hence
supporting his discuss points regarding  those sections.

I also have following observation/comments which I believe if addressed will
improve the document-

* Abstract: I actually didn't find enumerated requirements form the problem
statements that obviously. Hence, I would suggest to remove this part ("then
enumerates requirements for the extensions of those IPv6 protocols for
IPv6-based vehicular networking") from the abstract. Lets stick to what the
title says.  Otherwise, I would expect a numbered list of requirements that the
wg would like to refer to and fulfill in future works.

* Please add V2P (and X2P) definitions like others in the terminology section.

* Section 3.1: it says -

     "To encourage more vehicles to participate in this cooperative
     environmental sensing, a reward system will be needed. Sensing activities
     of each vehicle need to be logged in either a central way through a
     logging server (e.g., TCC) in the vehicular cloud or a distributed way
     (e.g., blockchain [Bitcoin]) through other vehicles or infrastructure. In
     the case of a blockchain, each sensing message from a vehicle can be
     treated as a transaction and the neighboring vehicles can play the role of
     peers in a consensus method of a blockchain
     [Bitcoin][Vehicular-BlockChain]."

   This seems like a misfit to the use case section and felt more like belongs
   to some sort of requirement for a reward system. I would suggest to just
   remove this paragraph.

* Section 5: it says -

    "Since the vehicles are likely to be moving at great speed, protocol
    exchanges need to be completed in a relatively short time compared to the
    lifetime of a link between a vehicle and an IP-RSU, or between two vehicles"

  While it is true that vehicles can move with "great speed", it is also true
  that the relative speeds between vehicles might not be that "great", e.g.
  platooning case. And when vehicles passes each other or a IP-RSU really fast
  there might not be enough time to setup the link layer connection and V2I
  communication becomes more important. I found the quoted section of problem
  statement to be ignorant of these facts and missing the potential relation
  among V2V, V2I and V2X connectivity and communication.

*  I would note that, fro, the use case and problem statement, tranport-layer
session mobility and usage of available bandwidth mentioned in the document.
However, those are not discussed with details but I understand would play vital
role to support the discussed application use cases and architecture. I assume
this might be due to  the scope of the document but this document should say
something about those aspect, at least mention as potential future work that
need to fulfill the envisioned use cases.




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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Thank you for the work on this document

Many thanks to Jim Fenton for his ART ART review:
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/art/8JP36SKQXl7jNXXdWEbcXng5bD0/, and to
the authors for addressing it.

Francesca




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From: Francesca Palombini <francesca.palombini@ericsson.com>
To: "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>, Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net>
CC: Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>, "its@ietf.org" <its@ietf.org>, "art@ietf.org" <art@ietf.org>, Last Call <last-call@ietf.org>, skku-iotlab-members <skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>, "Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong" <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Last-Call] [ipwave] Artart telechat review of draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27
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Subject: Re: [ipwave] [Last-Call] Artart telechat review of draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27
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Jim: thank you very much for this review. Authors, thank you for addressing=
 Jim=92s points. I have balloted No objection.

Francesca

From: last-call <last-call-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Mr. Jaehoon Paul =
Jeong <jaehoon.paul@gmail.com>
Date: Wednesday, 30 March 2022 at 18:51
To: Jim Fenton <fenton@bluepopcorn.net>
Cc: Chris Shen <shenyiwen7@gmail.com>, its@ietf.org <its@ietf.org>, art@iet=
f.org <art@ietf.org>, Last Call <last-call@ietf.org>, skku-iotlab-members <=
skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com>, Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong <jaehoon.paul=
@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Last-Call] [ipwave] Artart telechat review of draft-ietf-ipwa=
ve-vehicular-networking-27
Hi Jim,
Here is the revision of IPWAVE PS Draft:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networkin=
g-28
I attach a revision letter to explain how Chris and I have addressed your c=
omments
on the revision.

Thanks.

Best Regards,
Paul


On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at 6:52 AM Jim Fenton via Datatracker <noreply@ietf.or=
g<mailto:noreply@ietf.org>> wrote:
Reviewer: Jim Fenton
Review result: Almost Ready

I am the assigned ART reciewer for draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-2=
7.
Please note that since I don't have specific background in mobile networkin=
g,
these comments tend to be editorial in nature.

2. Terminology

The introduction to this section refers to terminology described in RFC 869=
1,
but several of the definitions overlap with definitions there but are not q=
uite
the same. Please make it clear which version of the definitions apply here.=
 For
example:

- IP-OBU has the additional phrase, "and a device (e.g., smartphone and
Internet-of-Things (IoT) device." Does this mean that an additional device =
is
needed in order to have a complete IP-OBU?

- IP-RSU has the additional sentence, "Also, it may have an IP interface un=
it
that runs in a C-V2X along with an "RSU" transceiver."

Definition of VSP: It appears there is a word missing following "privacy"

The definitions of Edge Computing and Edge Network use the term "for the sa=
ke
of". I'm not clear on what that means: perhaps "to be used by" or "to prote=
ct"?

Section 3.1, bullet 5: draft-templin-ipwave-uam-its has expired. Generally =
this
problem statement is not clear on whether Urban Air Mobility is in scope or
not. More comments on this below.

Section 3.1 paragraph 5 on EV charging might also mention notification of
charging stations that are out of service (a problem I have encountered).

Section 4.1 paragraph 3 spends more time talking about RFC 3849 documentati=
on
prefixes than anything particularly relevant here. Suggest removing the exa=
mple
prefix since it doesn't really add to the discussion.

Section 4.2 paragraph 2 describes connecting user devices to a vehicle's
internal network. This is a dangerous idea; it should at a minimum be a
separate network.

Section 4.2 last paragraph and section 5 paragraph 2 calculate dwell (not
dwelling) time based on a highway maximum speed of 100 km/h. It is not
acceptable to deny service to vehicles exceeding the speed limit, nor to
emergency vehicles that may be legitimately doing so. It also isn't clear h=
ow
this might apply to airborne vehicles. Suggest that if the network is desig=
ned
around a given maximum speed, that should be at least 250 km/h. It also ass=
umes
that traffic can be passed for the entire dwell time, and does not consider
physical link establishment, authentication, packet loss, and channel
contention from other vehicles.

Section 5 paragraph 1 s/time relatively short/relatively short time/

Section 5.1 last paragraph s/changes with the legacy/changes with respect t=
o
the legacy/

Section 6: Security Considerations

This problem statement has extreme security considerations so I am glad to =
see
considerable text on this topic. Again, inclusion of driver/passenger's mob=
ile
devices (paragraph 2) introduces yet more (possibly avoidable) security iss=
ues
and should perhaps be reconsidered.

One of the primary concerns is the threat to human life. It is essential th=
at
these mechanisms fail safely, and be resilient to both malicious attack and
equipment failure. As an example of the latter, one can imagine a situation
where a cooperating vehicle has a sensor failure (e.g., LIDAR) and reports
incorrect information about surrounding vehicles. If that caused other near=
by
vehicles to collide, there would be a rather interesting question of liabil=
ity
for the collision. While this is not a security concern in the classic sens=
e of
most IETF protocols, it needs to be considered in the design of IPWAVE
technology.

Privacy considerations are mentioned several times; this is a distinct enou=
gh
topic to consider the inclusion of a Privacy Considerations section (RFC 69=
73).
The document does describe the use of ephemeral IP addresses to evade track=
ing
based on IP address, but also needs to address the need to protect other
mechanisms such as authentication certificates as well. The threat actors f=
or
privacy need to be further considered: the document seems to focus primaril=
y on
the inability of passive attackers to perform tracking, but some users are =
also
concerned about the ability of the roadway operator (effectively the
government) to track their location as well. I am not sure how this problem
would be solved, but it should be mentioned.

8. References

I'm not sure what constitutes a normative vs. informative reference for a
problem statement such as this. But it does seem odd that all of the normat=
ive
references are RFCs and nearly all of the informative references aren't.

With so many references, it would be nice to have them in alphabetical orde=
r.
Perhaps the RFC editor will take care of that.



_______________________________________________
its mailing list
its@ietf.org<mailto:its@ietf.org>
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its

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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Jim: than=
k you very much for this review. Authors, thank you for addressing Jim=92s =
points. I have balloted No objection.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US">Francesca=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"mso-fareast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbs=
p;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
<b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span styl=
e=3D"font-size:12.0pt;color:black">last-call &lt;last-call-bounces@ietf.org=
&gt; on behalf of Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong &lt;jaehoon.paul@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Date: </b>Wednesday, 30 March 2022 at 18:51<br>
<b>To: </b>Jim Fenton &lt;fenton@bluepopcorn.net&gt;<br>
<b>Cc: </b>Chris Shen &lt;shenyiwen7@gmail.com&gt;, its@ietf.org &lt;its@ie=
tf.org&gt;, art@ietf.org &lt;art@ietf.org&gt;, Last Call &lt;last-call@ietf=
.org&gt;, skku-iotlab-members &lt;skku-iotlab-members@googlegroups.com&gt;,=
 Mr. Jaehoon Paul Jeong &lt;jaehoon.paul@gmail.com&gt;<br>
<b>Subject: </b>Re: [Last-Call] [ipwave] Artart telechat review of draft-ie=
tf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-27<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"mso-margin-top-alt:0cm;margin-right:0cm;mar=
gin-bottom:12.0pt;margin-left:36.0pt">
Hi Jim,<br>
Here is the revision of IPWAVE PS Draft:<br>
<br>
<a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicula=
r-networking-28">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ipwave-ve=
hicular-networking-28</a><o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">I attach a revision let=
ter to explain how&nbsp;Chris and I have addressed your comments<o:p></o:p>=
</p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">on&nbsp;the revision.<b=
r>
<br>
Thanks.<br>
<br>
Best Regards,<br>
Paul<o:p></o:p></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">On Tue, Mar 29, 2022 at=
 6:52 AM Jim Fenton via Datatracker &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:noreply@ietf.org"=
>noreply@ietf.org</a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0c=
m 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-left:36.0pt">Reviewer: Jim Fenton<br=
>
Review result: Almost Ready<br>
<br>
I am the assigned ART reciewer for draft-ietf-ipwave-vehicular-networking-2=
7.<br>
Please note that since I don't have specific background in mobile networkin=
g,<br>
these comments tend to be editorial in nature.<br>
<br>
2. Terminology<br>
<br>
The introduction to this section refers to terminology described in RFC 869=
1,<br>
but several of the definitions overlap with definitions there but are not q=
uite<br>
the same. Please make it clear which version of the definitions apply here.=
 For<br>
example:<br>
<br>
- IP-OBU has the additional phrase, &quot;and a device (e.g., smartphone an=
d<br>
Internet-of-Things (IoT) device.&quot; Does this mean that an additional de=
vice is<br>
needed in order to have a complete IP-OBU?<br>
<br>
- IP-RSU has the additional sentence, &quot;Also, it may have an IP interfa=
ce unit<br>
that runs in a C-V2X along with an &quot;RSU&quot; transceiver.&quot;<br>
<br>
Definition of VSP: It appears there is a word missing following &quot;priva=
cy&quot;<br>
<br>
The definitions of Edge Computing and Edge Network use the term &quot;for t=
he sake<br>
of&quot;. I'm not clear on what that means: perhaps &quot;to be used by&quo=
t; or &quot;to protect&quot;?<br>
<br>
Section 3.1, bullet 5: draft-templin-ipwave-uam-its has expired. Generally =
this<br>
problem statement is not clear on whether Urban Air Mobility is in scope or=
<br>
not. More comments on this below.<br>
<br>
Section 3.1 paragraph 5 on EV charging might also mention notification of<b=
r>
charging stations that are out of service (a problem I have encountered).<b=
r>
<br>
Section 4.1 paragraph 3 spends more time talking about RFC 3849 documentati=
on<br>
prefixes than anything particularly relevant here. Suggest removing the exa=
mple<br>
prefix since it doesn't really add to the discussion.<br>
<br>
Section 4.2 paragraph 2 describes connecting user devices to a vehicle's<br=
>
internal network. This is a dangerous idea; it should at a minimum be a<br>
separate network.<br>
<br>
Section 4.2 last paragraph and section 5 paragraph 2 calculate dwell (not<b=
r>
dwelling) time based on a highway maximum speed of 100 km/h. It is not<br>
acceptable to deny service to vehicles exceeding the speed limit, nor to<br=
>
emergency vehicles that may be legitimately doing so. It also isn't clear h=
ow<br>
this might apply to airborne vehicles. Suggest that if the network is desig=
ned<br>
around a given maximum speed, that should be at least 250 km/h. It also ass=
umes<br>
that traffic can be passed for the entire dwell time, and does not consider=
<br>
physical link establishment, authentication, packet loss, and channel<br>
contention from other vehicles.<br>
<br>
Section 5 paragraph 1 s/time relatively short/relatively short time/<br>
<br>
Section 5.1 last paragraph s/changes with the legacy/changes with respect t=
o<br>
the legacy/<br>
<br>
Section 6: Security Considerations<br>
<br>
This problem statement has extreme security considerations so I am glad to =
see<br>
considerable text on this topic. Again, inclusion of driver/passenger's mob=
ile<br>
devices (paragraph 2) introduces yet more (possibly avoidable) security iss=
ues<br>
and should perhaps be reconsidered.<br>
<br>
One of the primary concerns is the threat to human life. It is essential th=
at<br>
these mechanisms fail safely, and be resilient to both malicious attack and=
<br>
equipment failure. As an example of the latter, one can imagine a situation=
<br>
where a cooperating vehicle has a sensor failure (e.g., LIDAR) and reports<=
br>
incorrect information about surrounding vehicles. If that caused other near=
by<br>
vehicles to collide, there would be a rather interesting question of liabil=
ity<br>
for the collision. While this is not a security concern in the classic sens=
e of<br>
most IETF protocols, it needs to be considered in the design of IPWAVE<br>
technology.<br>
<br>
Privacy considerations are mentioned several times; this is a distinct enou=
gh<br>
topic to consider the inclusion of a Privacy Considerations section (RFC 69=
73).<br>
The document does describe the use of ephemeral IP addresses to evade track=
ing<br>
based on IP address, but also needs to address the need to protect other<br=
>
mechanisms such as authentication certificates as well. The threat actors f=
or<br>
privacy need to be further considered: the document seems to focus primaril=
y on<br>
the inability of passive attackers to perform tracking, but some users are =
also<br>
concerned about the ability of the roadway operator (effectively the<br>
government) to track their location as well. I am not sure how this problem=
<br>
would be solved, but it should be mentioned.<br>
<br>
8. References<br>
<br>
I'm not sure what constitutes a normative vs. informative reference for a<b=
r>
problem statement such as this. But it does seem odd that all of the normat=
ive<br>
references are RFCs and nearly all of the informative references aren't.<br=
>
<br>
With so many references, it would be nice to have them in alphabetical orde=
r.<br>
Perhaps the RFC editor will take care of that.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
its mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:its@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">its@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/its</a><o:p></o:p></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</body>
</html>

--_000_HE1PR07MB421773FD0EFB8BF59F2A0B8E98E79HE1PR07MB4217eurp_--


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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

First off, this is really interesting stuff.  Thanks for putting it together,
and I'm looking forward to reading more.

I support Roman's and Eric's DISCUSS positions.  I also concur with Alvaro's
comments about references.

The shepherd writeup doesn't say why "Informational" is the right type of RFC
here.  (It becomes obvious quickly, but please still answer the question.  We
often go to the writeup first.)

Section 2 defines "Class-Based Safety Plan", "V2I2D", "VMM", "VND", and "VSP",
but then those terms don't appear anywhere in the document.  (I did find
"class-based automatic safety action plan" later.)  It also defines "OCB" and
"VIP', but then only really uses them as part of reference anchors.  On the
flipside, I would love to see a definition (or reference) for "UAM".




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----------------------------------------------------------------------
COMMENT:
----------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm not an expect on these areas of technology, but I find parts of this
document to be quite uncompelling.  However, it is an informational document,
where considerable latitude is allowed.

Although I'm happy for the authors to correct my misunderstandings below, if
they wish, I'm doubtful that such a discussion will really be helpful, hence my
abstain ballot.

Some of my concerns when reviewing this document:

(1) It feels like quite a lot of these problems are (or could be) solved today
using the existing wireless networks and GPS already included in cars.  E.g.,
presumably they are already making use of IP over 4G-LTE without needing these
proposed protocol changes?  I.e., how many of the problems described here can
really be most efficiently solved by having a local dynamic network?

(2) Having some sort of bitcoin/blockchain based micropayment scheme for
sharing sensor data between vehicles feels highly implausible to me, given that
the world hasn't seemed to manage a micropayment scheme for websites which
seems like an easier problem to solve.

(3) Would vehicles even be able to safely trust sensor data coming from other
vehicles?  E.g., hacked vehicles that randomly occasionally inject false sensor
readings.  Who would have legal liability if your vehicle takes some action
based on unreliable 3rd party sensor data?  I appreciate that it outside this
type of technical document, but I think that it limits the likely hood of
solving this in an ad hoc network.

(4) I struggle to understand how the V2X use cases really work.  In a street
(at least in the UK) there would often be people in very close proximity to a
vehicle (e.g., walking on the pavement [sidewalk] next to a vehicle, and
presumably it is only people in front of the vehicle that are potential
collision problems, and for these cases, are radar/lidar/cameras/sensors not a
more robust choice (and are already deployed today, and seemingly improving
every year).  I would think that the only way that this could work with a
smartphone is if it sharing very precise (0.1 m) location data all the time to
everything around it, which would probably degrade the battery and would also
seem to have some serious privacy considerations.

(5) In Appendix D, I don't understand how the AERO/OMNI service solves the MTU
problem.  It seems to be just introducing another layer to solve exactly the
problem that are already solved by existing transport layer protocols.  If
there is some data illustrating how TCP over OAL (with IP parcels) is more
efficient that straight TCP over IP then that would be worth sharing.

Regards,
Rob




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Subject: [ipwave] Update about advancemebt if IEEE 802.11bd from CITS of ITU meeting of March 2022
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Hi, IPWAVErs,

One might be interested to see that IEEE advances well with the specs 
of 802.11bd.  It seems there will be finalization of that document by 
the end of this year 2022. (slide 8 says "RevCom and SASB approval Dec 
2022")

802.11bd can be seen as a successor to 802.11p; one of its advantages 
would be the higher bandwidth, in the order of gbit/s ('p' is in the 
tens of mbit/s).

This slideset was presented at that meeting.  It is pointed by this URL 
https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/extcoop/cits/Documents/Meeting-20220318-e-meeting/16_IEEE_802_11_TGbd_status_report.pdf

and the indirect pointer is the filename 
"16_IEEE_802_11_TGbd_status_report" in the folder at this URL:
https://www.itu.int/en/ITU-T/extcoop/cits/Pages/meeting-documents.aspx?RootFolder=/en/ITU-T/extcoop/cits/Documents/Meeting-20220318-e-meeting&FolderCTID=0x0120008D91490DA7927C4D8A0BB5A73929B07D&View=%7b73BE16B3-22C9-43D5-A9FD-D8BC067A87FF%7d

Alex

