This puts us as one of the new active approach in refor= ming the Internet. We will have to coopete with the other approaches that t= he ITU has just documented. Should we not do something to be invoved ?

Marie France Berny

--000e0cd1e2c4c584740469664668-- From eblanconil@gmail.com Fri May 8 06:23:31 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D0993A6A57 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 06:23:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.597, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BZfG+19UlAPO for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 06:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wf-out-1314.google.com (wf-out-1314.google.com [209.85.200.172]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 80E953A7176 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 06:23:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: by wf-out-1314.google.com with SMTP id 29so1326989wff.31 for ; Fri, 08 May 2009 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:content-type; bh=JKsf9wbGV/EoiU12tFdeTLxKe9XKud1VFmIkMSb/1hg=; b=HsLXTB1EvodHdXeM2LBcF3f4tKyMa6xh0eLJNY6qUjzxkYerr5GGBar8kx4QN2oQR+ WpxYl/2pgTh/JIBJhV5Qc3/uz0IeLjHPX3lJUYCOxraB6cwsaRKns01fpW+jG/pz5Ij5 FzCsQWT8FCmeS6/Gxcc1QcrpqiftAG7yMSVGA= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; b=U+u8jXNetrL7cvVYYLNO2GfGlo3SDBspOQA4u8exmD+vSl3Gb49zFG1XuE9bAkunZM E5+JAETZdjwnK5J61MTTZ9OMsUUE3h45nAzadNFVzmhxCFMpMx0SHsjPBab7lmJ995wK UtU8cT3bq5OXLHmilzcjNgPEyq2l8qzdV6QgY= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.142.177.13 with SMTP id z13mr1517262wfe.331.1241789097214; Fri, 08 May 2009 06:24:57 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <58ee45520905080605m558507eem82c960d4641c43cd@mail.gmail.com> References: <58ee45520905080605m558507eem82c960d4641c43cd@mail.gmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 2009 15:24:57 +0200 Message-ID: <6589127a0905080624n5e6c3f0cye33ccaefedda48b5@mail.gmail.com> From: Elisabeth Blanconil To: internet users contributing group Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=000e0cd173d206854a0469668e8c Subject: Re: [iucg] current work on IDNA X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 13:23:31 -0000 --000e0cd173d206854a0469668e8c Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I am working on a "thinkingthe.net" wiki project to document the various visions. I currently see three of them: - evolution from what we have - cleanslate redesign - build on top what we have keeping under/superoperable with one of both. We need to know where the PSOC will stand to have a complete picture. I will probably start from a review of the ITU study. Then you will be welcome to upgrade. Best Eli 2009/5/8 Marie-France Berny > If I understand correctly we have switched from a pure user approach to a > mixed one where :- Internet PLUS will be documented in an IETF manner as > what users needs and implement. > - the Intersem is our baby for the time being, with a fundamental > comprehension leading an effort carried in parallel. > > This puts us as one of the new active approach in reforming the Internet. > We will have to coopete with the other approaches that the ITU has just > documented. Should we not do something to be invoved ? > > Marie France Berny > > _______________________________________________ > iucg mailing list > iucg@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg > > --000e0cd173d206854a0469668e8c Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am working on a "thinkingthe.net<= /a>" wiki project to document the various visions. I currently see thr= ee of them:

- cleansla= te redesign

- build on top what we have keeping under/superoperable with one of bo= th.

We need to know where the PSOC will stand to h= ave a complete picture.=A0

I will probably start f= rom a review of the ITU study. Then you will be welcome to upgrade.

Best

Eli

2009/5/8 Marie-France Berny <mfberny@gmail.com>

If I understand correctly we have switched from a pure user approach to a m= ixed one where :
- Internet PLUS will be documented in an IETF manner a= s what users needs and implement.
- the Intersem is our baby for = the time being, with a fundamental comprehension leading an effort carried = in parallel.

This puts us as one of the new active approach in refor= ming the Internet. We will have to coopete with the other approaches that t= he ITU has just documented. Should we not do something to be invoved ?

Marie France Berny

_______________________________________________
iucg mailing list
iucg@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg

--000e0cd173d206854a0469668e8c-- From jefsey@jefsey.com Fri May 8 16:16:39 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6104F3A6B55 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 16:16:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.949 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.949 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZyC9B0ZarI7J for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 16:16:38 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1-g21.free.fr (smtp1-g21.free.fr [212.27.42.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E6A293A69D5 for ; Fri, 8 May 2009 16:15:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp1-g21.free.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by smtp1-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1495D940036; Sat, 9 May 2009 01:17:07 +0200 (CEST) Received: from jfcmh.free.fr (ver78-2-82-241-91-24.fbx.proxad.net [82.241.91.24]) by smtp1-g21.free.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 46DAB940089; Sat, 9 May 2009 01:17:04 +0200 (CEST) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sat, 09 May 2009 01:16:57 +0200 To: John C Klensin ,listegenerale@franceatlarge.org, iucg@ietf.org From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: <817300B794CB274E2BC977BE@PST.JCK.COM> References: <817300B794CB274E2BC977BE@PST.JCK.COM> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Message-Id: <20090508231704.46DAB940089@smtp1-g21.free.fr> Cc: Lisa Dusseault , idna-arabicscript@lists.irnic.ir Subject: Re: [iucg] Protocol-12 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2009 23:16:39 -0000 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idnabis-protocol-12.txt John Klensin published the Draft above - he has the black magic which permits to format an I_D so it can be automatically accepted and broadcasted - what the IETF tools mailing list advised http://xml.resource.org/experimental.html does not allow us to do. ---- Dear John, We have started analyzing the text. Before committing we need to see the rationale and Pete Resnick's announced Draft. This is a Bank holidays in France (Just went a see "Star Treck 11" tonight, in order to keep adjusted). So, we agreed to relax our Internet PLUS work for one day or two and: - try to use some of your wording if we can. - address the non-LDH cases in our text (but we focuss on internet domain name for applications, not on the DNS) - take time to rephrase a general initial explanation - edit the whole text to make sure we removed everything related to semantic addressing, so it is 100% in the IETF strata. - may be add one or two diagrams. But our two main points are not discussed yet (mapping/where and French language support). I think we also need to know the comments of the ASIWG. Xavier Legoff has a pertinent remark: all the banned/retired ex-WG-IDNABIS members should benefit from the Hoffman/Costello's clause: "Hoffman and Costello were not and should not be held responsible for any errors or omissions." Take care. jfc At 23:58 08/05/2009, John C Klensin wrote: >Ok. > >Protocol-12 is now in the posting queue and should show up soon. >This is mostly an editorial-smoothing draft, but I believe it >captures all comments to date that either were reported on as >having consensus or were discussed for a while and no dissent >reported to proposed conclusions, with two major and >interconnected exceptions, both noted in the text: > >(1) I have not addressed the mapping issues at all. The text >about it is more or less (probably identically) the same as what >came into San Francisco. I do not propose to make further >changes here until we have rough consensus on at least the >general flavor of a posted mapping document. > >(2) There have been several requests to make the language and >section numbering of Sections 4 (registration) and 5 (lookup) >exactly parallel. As noted in the text, I'm not going to try to >do that until we have settled enough on the mapping topics that >I don't have to do it again after mapping materials and >references are added or removed. > >Awaiting your comments... > >Rationale will follow as soon as it is ready. > > john > >_______________________________________________ >Idna-update mailing list >Idna-update@alvestrand.no >http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update From mfberny@gmail.com Mon May 25 19:46:46 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AB5D3A67B1 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:46:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.273 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.273 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.325, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id t7wafSQ+gSGs for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:46:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-bw0-f222.google.com (mail-bw0-f222.google.com [209.85.218.222]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD87C3A6FAB for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:46:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: by bwz22 with SMTP id 22so3479032bwz.37 for ; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:48:07 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=domainkey-signature:mime-version:received:in-reply-to:references :date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=iFUdETTxb8DVPYejHddwrcBdmoqrEF1+cFr6bqM2nlQ=; b=wGrLIwRcZqhcay8XNg6omc5qutLLrakifvyrUqBmwOkPLy+LTMq4BrYzU7B+AbYkIo o94WHGkClh/Io9TNWt1E92I0cVtJ2ayZTDT7pifuEMK2eURbXsSyJF30fhRnSFt0xp1M jPOXzfsabk80us+IrQFSPuzi+YECgwkhZq//Y= DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; c=nofws; d=gmail.com; s=gamma; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; b=fsNMXqVnLmpfGtS6ilWeMKucOxB8Oaxt8YA4lAm3eDwfhgFjmU+Yw+WWBb8Xpu6dS4 fXD2Y+kaGY4DcTgb5AKU7mJZGKaHpgXDN67EViQlP0TiAKCt9TJ6HZphL73+8NMJNz2b QU6kiIQBSbLNHJpF9AnVUkDzIoZpk1dz/o5Xw= MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.204.121.194 with SMTP id i2mr715282bkr.92.1243306086836; Mon, 25 May 2009 19:48:06 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <20090526011501.468193A6E44@core3.amsl.com> References: <20090526011501.468193A6E44@core3.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 04:48:06 +0200 Message-ID: <58ee45520905251948i19fad663v821d6b1d02be68c9@mail.gmail.com> From: Marie-France Berny To: iucg@ietf.org, listegenerale@franceatlarge.org Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=0016e6d45fe7a72b5a046ac7c1a9 Cc: idna-update@alvestrand.no Subject: Re: [iucg] I-D Action:draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 May 2009 02:46:46 -0000 --0016e6d45fe7a72b5a046ac7c1a9 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dear @larges, the text of this Draft can now be found and printed at http://wikidna.org/index.php?title=IDNA_Mapping. My _personal_ comment - JFC is probably still unavailabe before one or two days - is that Pete sticks to his position and places mapping on the user side. This should be compatible with the much more architectural france@large proposition. Guys, we can now help JFC finalize our Draft. Tank you Pete!. Marie-France Berny. 2009/5/26 > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts > directories. > This draft is a work item of the Internationalized Domain Names in > Applications (Revised) Working Group of the IETF. > > > Title : Mapping Characters in IDNA > Author(s) : P. Resnick > Filename : draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt > Pages : 8 > Date : 2009-05-25 > > In the original version of the Internationalized Domain Names in > Applications (IDNA) protocol, any Unicode code points taken from user > input were mapped into a set of Unicode code points that "make > sense", which were then encoded and passed to the domain name system > (DNS). The current version of IDNA presumes that the input to the > protocol comes from a set of "permitted" code points, which it then > encodes and passes to the DNS, but does not specify what to do with > the result of user input. This document specifies the actions taken > by an implementation between user input and passing permitted code > points to the new IDNA protocol. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: > ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > > > _______________________________________________ > Idna-update mailing list > Idna-update@alvestrand.no > http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update > > --0016e6d45fe7a72b5a046ac7c1a9 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear @larges,
the text of this Draft can now be found and printed at http://wikidna.o= rg/index.php?title=3DIDNA_Mapping.

My _personal_ comment - JFC = is probably still unavailabe before one or two days - is that Pete sticks t= o his position and places mapping on the user side. This should be compatib= le with the much more architectural france@large proposition.

Guys, we can now help JFC finalize our Draft. Tank you Pete!.
Marie-= France Berny.

2009/5/26 <Internet-Drafts@ietf.org<= /a>>

A New Internet-Dr= aft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Internationalized Domain Names in Applicat= ions (Revised) Working Group of the IETF.

=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Title =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : Mapping Characters in IDNA
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Author(s) =A0 =A0 =A0 : P. Resnick
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Filename =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.tx= t
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Pages =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 : 8
=A0 =A0 =A0 =A0Date =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0 =A0: 2009-05-25

In the original version of the Internationalized Domain Names in
Applications (IDNA) protocol, any Unicode code points taken from user
input were mapped into a set of Unicode code points that "make
sense", which were then encoded and passed to the domain name system (DNS). =A0The current version of IDNA presumes that the input to the
protocol comes from a set of "permitted" code points, which it th= en
encodes and passes to the DNS, but does not specify what to do with
the result of user input. =A0This document specifies the actions taken
by an implementation between user input and passing permitted code
points to the new IDNA protocol.

A URL for this Internet-Draft is:
http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-id= nabis-mappings-00.txt

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp= .ietf.org/internet-drafts/

Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader
implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the
Internet-Draft.

_______________________________________________
Idna-update mailing list
Idna-update@alvestrand.no<= br> http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update

--0016e6d45fe7a72b5a046ac7c1a9-- From jefsey@jefsey.com Tue May 26 21:30:00 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E22583A6C0A for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:30:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.74 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.74 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.74] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([64.170.98.32]) by localhost (core3.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dThxqSpo7mDi for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from montage2.altserver.com (montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B303E3A6819 for ; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:29:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 147.237.39-62.rev.gaoland.net ([62.39.237.147]:4326 helo=jfcmh.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M9Ank-0000MT-Cd; Tue, 26 May 2009 21:31:41 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 06:28:33 +0200 To: Lisa Dusseault From: jefsey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20090527042959.B303E3A6819@core3.amsl.com> Cc: iucg@ietf.org Subject: [iucg] [Idna-arabicscript] Pete Resnick's I_D X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 04:30:01 -0000 For your information I hope we can quote Pete in our document, so it can demonstrate consensus. I/we fully agree also with John's last text and Patrick text. jfc ----------------------------- Dear Colleagues, I confirm what MF Berny indicated on the (filtered) WG-IDNABIS mailing list. Pete Resnick's I_D properly describes the issue, and documents the process I, france@large and the ".fra" project believe to be the process called by the WG-IDNABIS Charter. I think we can now finish and release our own ML-DNS (multilayered) I_D without fearing unproductive exchanges. It exactly builds on this, I hope now consensual, IDNA understanding. It legitimates, from a user point of view, the IETF when confronted to the problem analysed by Pete, from an IETF engineer's point of view. I apologize for the delays due to family health problems. Best regards. jfc _______________________________________________ Idna-arabicscript mailing list Arabic Script IDN Working Group (ASIWG) Idna-arabicscript@lists.irnic.ir http://lists.irnic.ir/mailman/listinfo/idna-arabicscript From jefsey@jefsey.com Wed May 27 06:46:18 2009 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@core3.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0AA403A68F9 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 06:46:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Quarantine-ID: <4HAkCgQAxXZL> X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Amavis-Alert: BAD HEADER, Non-encoded 8-bit data (char FC hex): To: "Martin J. D\374rst" ; Wed, 27 May 2009 06:46:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from montage2.altserver.com (montage2.altserver.com [72.34.52.22]) by core3.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EE6633A6A15 for ; Wed, 27 May 2009 06:45:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 147.237.39-62.rev.gaoland.net ([62.39.237.147]:1519 helo=jfcmh.jefsey.com) by montage2.altserver.com with esmtpa (Exim 4.69) (envelope-from ) id 1M9JSO-0003eZ-66; Wed, 27 May 2009 06:46:13 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 15:33:06 +0200 To: "Martin J. D�rst" , Pete Resnick From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: <4A1D1407.9030201@it.aoyama.ac.jp> References: <20090526011501.468193A6E44@core3.amsl.com> <4A1D1407.9030201@it.aoyama.ac.jp> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - montage2.altserver.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Message-Id: <20090527134557.EE6633A6A15@core3.amsl.com> Cc: iucg@ietf.org, idna-arabicscript@lists.irnic.ir Subject: Re: [iucg] I-D Action:draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 May 2009 13:46:18 -0000 At 12:20 27/05/2009, Martin J. D�rst wrote: >Hello Pete, Dear Martin, your remarks are pertinent. However, may I suggest that you say the same thing as Pete, in as much words as him. Except that you are network-up, while he is user-down (and this is what is new in IETF - i.e. compliant with the Internet process and matching the IUCG's targets). This is why I support what you say because I need the Internet to work, the same as I support what Pete writes because I need the Intersem (Semiotic Internet, which is my interest) to be supported (I welcome Pete's vivid description of the semiotic user inputs). Now, my Draft addresses exactly what you call for. I did not want to publish it before Pete published his, because the Chair had annouced it (and because there can be alternative views to what we start developping and I wished the debate to be initiate by someone else). As I said I am sorry, I am delayed, but I try to make my best as I see the analysis is eventually converging (at least the way I see and describe it). jfc >On 2009/05/27 13:02, Pete Resnick wrote: > >> http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-idnabis-mappings-00.txt > > > > Well, apparently like Hume's Treatise, it appears that my draft "fell > > dead-born from the Press; without reaching such distinction as even > > to excite a Murmur among the Zealots." > > > > Anyone else have a comment? > >First impression: Long sentences, long paragraphs. I definitely suggest >going through the document and try to cut all sentences so that they fit >in two lines or less, as an editorial exercise independent of how the >content is going to change. > >Taking into the account that Section 3 and beyond are not yet worked out >very much, I won't comment on these. Section 2 is called "Architectural >Principles", which sounds good. But I have mostly found some general >explanations of how user input works these days, some explanations about >the history of IDNA and the differences between IDNA versions, and so >on, nothing getting close to anything Architecturally. > >One reading of the document suggests that the "mapping" happens when >characters are input, e.g. from the keyboard. I think it would be a >great contribution to text processing and internationalization on the >planet if all data input happened to produce data in NFC. However, I >unfortunately have serious doubts that this will happen, even if IDNA >suggests it stronly (and even if we require it). For other kinds of >mappings (e.g. mapping to lower-case), it would be complete havoc if it >happened at user input. It would be impossible to type UPPER-case >characters. > >That shows that it is impossible to put the mapping at the point of user >input (e.g. from a keyboard). It may work for the 'location' or >'address' field in a browser, but not for editing a script or a settings >file with a plain text editor. > >Except for a lot of talk about keybords and the like, there is no >discussion about where between the keyboard and the punycode conversion >the mapping might happen. If some thought has been given to this, it >should be included in the document. If not, somebody better start thinking. > >detail: >"in order to draw a Latin small letter A ("a")": 'draw' should be >replaced by 'input' or another more generic term. > >Regards, Martin. > >-- >#-# Martin J. D�rst, Professor, Aoyama Gakuin University >#-# http://www.sw.it.aoyama.ac.jp mailto:duerst@it.aoyama.ac.jp >_______________________________________________ >Idna-update mailing list >Idna-update@alvestrand.no >http://www.alvestrand.no/mailman/listinfo/idna-update