From nobody Sun Feb 16 11:39:13 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C05F81A026D for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 11:39:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.331 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.331 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Oq__Cuv_KlUe for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 11:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D5011A025C for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 11:39:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from 28.57.14.81.rev.sfr.net ([81.14.57.28]:18869 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WF7YR-0001wl-Ow for iucg@ietf.org; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 11:39:08 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 20:39:02 +0100 To: iucg@ietf.org From: Jefsey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/63bu5gknGFUr_cyWh5uHYFZQbfs Subject: [iucg] VGN/VGNICs X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Feb 2014 19:39:11 -0000 The debate we had off-list among several IUCG members due to various strategic considerations for them is now closed. The issue was the annoucement of the VGN/VGNIC concept due to its consequences as an "innovation opener", as a governance issue "solver or confuser", and more complicate as needing a "CLIC/DECLIC" possibility of cooperation, i.e. a common licence of development Libre, Institutional and Commercial" because the concepts, tools, solutions, developments may be transcommunitary. The initial concepts and FAQs can be found at http://iucg.org/wiki/VGN_and_VGNICs. Best jfc From nobody Sun Feb 16 16:35:14 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98D6A1A0078 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 16:35:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.631 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bbcduOPQbTJt for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 16:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6423B1A00E0 for ; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 16:35:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from 28.57.14.81.rev.sfr.net ([81.14.57.28]:5866 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WFCAr-00068w-Fk; Sun, 16 Feb 2014 16:35:05 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 01:32:54 +0100 To: Russ Housley From: Jefsey In-Reply-To: <20140214172722.1B7DB1A028B@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <8E82AC16-6428-412E-A862-6F53AFE632C7@isoc.org> <074FE4AC-76B0-45C2-B849-3BFE5D4782DD@vigilsec.com> <73481820-F228-434C-814A-070F6A2C1F93@gmail.com> <83E315B6-2059-490A-A892-19CF6D74EA62@vigilsec.com> <6DCAB3E586E6A34FB17223DF8D8F0D3D0101E71E6F@W8-EXMB-DP.unam.local> <3337069F-76EC-48A1-BA25-4872FF544AB8@vigilsec.com> <20140214172722.1B7DB1A028B@ietfa.amsl.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/ufjVzietyXnVgmUDuEAFwiRyILw Cc: internetgovtech@iab.org, iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] [Internetgovtech] US Government response to the European Commission statement X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 00:35:10 -0000 At 18:26 14/02/2014, Jefsey wrote: >At 03:07 14/02/2014, Russ Housley wrote: >>Let's look at three real world projects that are going on right >>now. These are just examples off the top of my head. FYI. FAQs on VGNs. http://iucg.org/wiki/VGN:_FAQs I will try to maintain the various related topics at http://iucg.org/wiki/VGN_and_VGNICs, a VGN/VGNIC portal for further work on the issue. I do not know how long it will take to catch but this is an inflexion point. VGNs are certainly a way to implement OpenStand in the real world, review the whole governance issue, and arouse big enough interests to oblige an RFC 6852 inflexion toward a conflict management system where the ultimate decision rests with an MS decision process. jfc From nobody Mon Feb 17 04:38:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992831A03EA for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:38:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.631 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NzmTJ3YZiN2J for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 431EB1A03D6 for ; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:38:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from lns-c10k03-v-62-35-238-138.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr ([62.35.238.138]:23759 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WFNSV-0006Db-1E; Mon, 17 Feb 2014 04:38:04 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 13:37:52 +0100 To: iucg@ietf.org From: Jefsey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/JS-3NyfCZDJ5zkFxhAbxEw7QSRE Cc: governance@lists.igcaucus.org Subject: [iucg] 3166-7 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Feb 2014 12:38:08 -0000 What could be called the "Snowdenian Awareness" has a certain number of positive impacts. 1. the first one is that it makes difficult for crime without this being noticed to unilateraly take a faster advantage from IUCG contributions than the rest if the digital community. This gets rid of a killing weight on us. I have therefore advanced the VGN concept that unites all our concerns as stakeholders on an equal footing with ICANN, the USG, IETF in terms of technical solutions and digirelational governance. 2. the second one is the reason why we urgently need our full capacity to innovate: the IETF technology is vulnerable. NSAs throughout the world carry their job: it is abnormal that it can be so easy. It it is easy for them it is easy for competition, ennemies, and crime. 3. the third one (taken to the first degree only) is: why was it so easy for an external contractor having only signed a form to "curl -O" 1.7 million of secret files and to take them on a ride round the world. It seems that our data are better protected at Google than at the US NSA. This means that our processing management vision is to be reviewed. This calls for distributed processing, capabilities, information and intellition protection strategies, and a powerful consistent precaution doctrine for the Intelligent Systems. The universe is a "dis/con" history between continuity and discontinuity. Both can be managed. Catastrophes, self-organizing criticallity, penetrations, etc. happen as edge effects. Everywhere we therefore should favor continuity and focus on fringes, building smart interfaces that can seamlessly extend continuity into discontituty and discontinuity into continuity. Architectonically this means to patch the edge with fringe interfaces. In the internet we have that capacity. It is consistently documented through RFC 1958 and 3439 (everything which is not end to end datagram transmission is to be carried at the edge, and everything MUST be simple), RFC 5895 exemplifies how this can be carried at the fringe in the IDNA case and more generaly the OPES (Open Pluggable Edge Services) tools address the need (RFC 3238). In the coming weeks I therefore propose you to review the whole IUCG concerns from a VGN point of view, associating a parallel VGNIC review in order to obtain an InterUse covenant that will facilitate the emergence of an InterTech level to seamlessly support multiple technologies over the internet. Best jfc From nobody Tue Feb 25 10:21:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 07E921A017D for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:21:20 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.232 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.232 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_19=0.6, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JJYYPl9Ow-TB for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:21:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 60F411A0174 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:21:15 -0800 (PST) Received: from [85.159.233.116] (port=11452 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WIMcz-0005yg-5v; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 10:21:13 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:21:10 +0100 To: manning bill ,Seun Ojedeji From: JFC Morfin In-Reply-To: References: <0N1H00AI2X32KJ50@st11p00mm-smtpin003.mac.com> <3B235EF6-8323-4D3B-AACB-716683987D77@virtualized.org> <743F1E0E-A3DC-4920-8472-3F722C3A314F@shinkuro.com> <09A8FAED-3F52-423E-A764-8C86911480ED@isi.edu> <221C1A56-3C68-4FD1-9170-560DE9C530C1@isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_350008648==.ALT" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/0WM1250t0FTzgdXhvxsjXp3ImFE Cc: iab@iab.org, "discuss@1net.org List" , iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] rootservers X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 18:21:21 -0000 --=====================_350008648==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 07:11 25/02/2014, manning bill wrote: >By definition, a root server, serves the global Internet, is >designed to respond to queries generated from -EVERYWHERE- on the >global Internet. Bill, Thank you for the clarification. A root file is a vision of the global internet name space (and actually more) from a given point of view that is figured by the final "empty" dot. By the definition of the VGNs (Virtual Global Network) concept (i.e. a virtual network vision covering the whole catenet): - a top zone server serves its users to access the global catenet. - in using its VGNIC (virtual global networks information center)'s root file. - Some VGNs can be open, specialized, or closed. The purpose of the HomeRoot experimentation should be to understand how the VGNICS (virtual global network information center system) should work to fully support the DNS needed, unique single and comprehensive map of each class. To answer your question posed to Elisabeth: - we will discuss some practicalities, at a Free ISP monthly members meeting in France, probably next week. - then http://doodle.com/u9wnrr3quz3f8fmy on March 11 in Paris, the day after the French IGF. - the target is to prepare a coordinated/concerted project at the IUCG OpenCamp during the Montpellier (France) FLOSS RMLL meeting, during the second week of July. As Gregory pointed it out, the first need is of a consistent terminology. At the beginning of the WGIDNAbis, I had committed, once IDNA2008 would be consensually adopted, to document atop and test an ML-DNS (ML was standing for multi-ledger registry, some of these ledgers being able to take care of linguistic classes as suggested by ICANN ICP-3). The target was that every language could be treated on an equal effillient footing with English in using Patrik Falström's DNS vision of Unicode plus some ISO 10646 missing orthotypographic attributes (like French majuscules). This calls for a presentation layer six that we located at an Intelligent Use Interface (IUI) hosting some "Plugged Layers on the User Side". Its provision of extended services to the user must either stay transparent to the other side or be able to interact with its IUI (or with many others services in an "agoric" [i.e. polylectic] way). During the WG period, we used to discuss the virtual network created by these IUIs as the "internet+" (that Google also used). The term "InterPLUS" was also used. Then, the status of RFC 5895 (which permitted the consensus on IDNA as exemplifying the way the internet architecture supports diversity by subsidiarity at the fringe) was disputed: there was a need for a better inclusion of multilinguistics within the catenet concept and IDNA in its internet architecture. - the MINC (Multilingual Internet Name Consortium) was politically hijacked and was not able to introduce any project over IDNA2008. - we had created Eurolinc with Louis Pouzin. It is active in different areas but Europe is a big machine. - IAB was open but never concluded at the architectural level. - an appeal of mine showed that the IETF was interested/concerned by fringe to fringe issues but that they were outside of its scope. - the IUCG was created with Russ Housley in order to house these kinds of IUsers concerns and I investigated the IUTF (for fringe to fringe) on the IRTF model. - IETF created several WGs to integrate IDNA2008 concepts. - personal constraints and the fear of coaxing crime in the picture, due to the expected transition delays, prevented me from initiating an ML-DNS bold work and testing. Then, Snowden raised the level of awareness so much that crime could not become an unnoticed danger, IETF added works, new computer languages, and architectures have emerged, cyberwar issues are acknowledged, ISOC led the I*coalition effort in the standardization paradigm area with the result OpenStand, ICANN /1net joined the net oriented OpenStand signatories/endorsers and attempted its Sao Paulo US/multilateral compromise. So when Mike Roberts accurately described the States' (every State) e-hysteresis, it was clear that the time was ripe for pressing for a change in the general paradigm from "super user BUG" ("being unilaterally global") to "informed, capable, intelligent users". I.e. from decentralized hierarchy to MS heterarchy. From a single INTERNIC to the VGNICSystem. From interconnected posix to netix. It may take time, but this cannot be changed. ICANN is a VGNIC among others that (will) document their vision of the catenet and of its addresses and connected systems. The first impact is that I can probably drop my appeal at ISOC against RFC 6852. My opposition to RFC 6852 is that its standardization process is not an MS process. A "superboard" concept is implemented: a 5 head hydra; but it is diluted. No one knows who the ultimate normalization referent is (except money, but how?). People, Govs, and industries lose control: an undefined economy takes the lead. However, if MSism turns from being the core architectonic (computer, network, governance, languages, OS, etc.) paradigm of the standardization paradigm, my opposition drops. IUCG can then sign OpenStand after it has been updated (probably wholeheartedly) in order to read: - "Respectful cooperation between standards organizations, [on a multistakeholderist basis] whereby each respects the autonomy, integrity, [area], processes, and intellectual property rules of the others." - "contribute to the creation [and the service] of global communities, benefiting humanity" Now, the whole thing depends on the machines' effilient running code and the users' positively accepted living mode. This will be tested through at least three experimental phases: 1. A zone mapping tool (EZOP: exploration de la zone primaire); 2. the HomeRoot system configuration. How to best support a DNS autonomous, sure, and secure service; 3. VGNICSystem governance and mutual servicing. The discussion list is https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg The VGNICSystem is http://vgnics.net jfc --=====================_350008648==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 07:11 25/02/2014, manning bill wrote:
By definition, a root server, serves the global Internet, is designed to respond to queries generated from -EVERYWHERE- on the global Internet.


Bill,

Thank you for the clarification.
A root file is a vision of the global internet name space (and actually more) from a given point of view that is figured by the final "empty" dot.

By the definition of the VGNs (Virtual Global Network) concept (i.e. a virtual network vision covering the whole catenet):

- a top zone server serves its users to access the global catenet.
- in using its VGNIC (virtual global networks information center)'s root file.
- Some VGNs can be open, specialized, or closed. The purpose of the HomeRoot experimentation should be to understand how the VGNICS (virtual global network information center system) should work to fully support the DNS needed, unique single and comprehensive map of each class.

To answer your question posed to Elisabeth:
- we will discuss some practicalities, at a Free ISP monthly members meeting in France, probably next week.
- then http://doodle.com/u9wnrr3quz3f8fmy on March 11 in Paris, the day after the French IGF.
- the target is to prepare a coordinated/concerted project at the IUCG OpenCamp during the Montpellier (France) FLOSS RMLL meeting, during the second week of July.


As Gregory pointed it out, the first need is of a consistent terminology.

At the beginning of the WGIDNAbis, I had committed, once IDNA2008 would be consensually adopted, to document atop and test an ML-DNS (ML was standing for multi-ledger registry, some of these ledgers being able to take care of linguistic classes as suggested by ICANN ICP-3). The target was that every language could be treated on an equal effillient footing with English in using Patrik Falström’s DNS vision of Unicode plus some ISO 10646 missing orthotypographic attributes (like French majuscules).

This calls for a presentation layer six that we located at an Intelligent Use Interface (IUI) hosting some "Plugged Layers on the User Side". Its provision of extended services to the user must either stay transparent to the other side or be able to interact with its IUI (or with many others services in an "agoric" [i.e. polylectic] way). During the WG period, we used to discuss the virtual network created by these IUIs as the "internet+" (that Google also used). The term "InterPLUS" was also used.

Then, the status of RFC 5895 (which permitted the consensus on IDNA as exemplifying the way the internet architecture supports diversity by subsidiarity at the fringe) was disputed: there was a need for a better inclusion of multilinguistics within the catenet concept and IDNA in its internet architecture.

- the MINC (Multilingual Internet Name Consortium) was politically hijacked and was not able to introduce any project over IDNA2008.
- we had created Eurolinc with Louis Pouzin. It is active in different areas but Europe is a big machine.
- IAB was open but never concluded at the architectural level.
- an appeal of mine showed that the IETF was interested/concerned by fringe to fringe issues but that they were outside of its scope.
- the IUCG was created with Russ Housley in order to house these kinds of IUsers concerns and I investigated the IUTF (for fringe to fringe) on the IRTF model.
- IETF created several WGs to integrate IDNA2008 concepts.
- personal constraints and the fear of coaxing crime in the picture, due to the expected transition delays, prevented me from initiating an ML-DNS bold work and testing.

Then, Snowden raised the level of awareness so much that crime could not become an unnoticed danger, IETF added works, new computer languages, and architectures have emerged, cyberwar issues are acknowledged, ISOC led the I*coalition effort in the standardization paradigm area with the result OpenStand, ICANN /1net joined the net oriented OpenStand signatories/endorsers and attempted its Sao Paulo US/multilateral compromise. So when Mike Roberts accurately described the States' (every State) e-hysteresis, it was clear that the time was ripe for pressing for a change in the general paradigm from "super user BUG" ("being unilaterally global") to "informed, capable, intelligent users". I.e. from decentralized hierarchy to MS heterarchy. From a single INTERNIC to the VGNICSystem. From interconnected posix to netix. It may take time, but this cannot be changed. ICANN is a VGNIC among others that (will) document their vision of the catenet and of its addresses and connected systems.

The first impact is that I can probably drop my appeal at ISOC against RFC 6852. My opposition to RFC 6852 is that its standardization process is not an MS process. A "superboard" concept is implemented: a 5 head hydra; but it is diluted. No one knows who the ultimate normalization referent is (except money, but how?). People, Govs, and industries lose control: an undefined economy takes the lead.

 
However, if MSism turns from being the core architectonic (computer, network, governance, languages, OS, etc.) paradigm of the standardization paradigm, my opposition drops. IUCG can then sign OpenStand after it has been updated (probably wholeheartedly) in order to read:

- "Respectful cooperation between standards organizations, [on a multistakeholderist basis] whereby each respects the autonomy, integrity, [area], processes, and intellectual property rules of the others."
- "contribute to the creation [and the service] of global communities, benefiting humanity"

Now, the whole thing depends on the machines' effilient running code and the users' positively accepted living mode. This will be tested through at least three experimental phases:

1. A zone mapping tool (EZOP: exploration de la zone primaire);
2. the HomeRoot system configuration. How to best support a DNS autonomous, sure, and secure service;
3. VGNICSystem governance and mutual servicing.

The discussion list is https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/iucg
The VGNICSystem is http://vgnics.net

jfc --=====================_350008648==.ALT-- From nobody Wed Feb 26 06:54:34 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 73FD31A079F; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:22:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.047 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.047 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.547] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g0xuRQDd5w98; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from vapor.isi.edu (vapor.isi.edu [128.9.64.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 477F31A0324; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.100.41.22] ([182.173.75.2]) (authenticated bits=0) by vapor.isi.edu (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s1PNM22Y008594 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:22:15 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.2 \(1874\)) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 From: manning bill In-Reply-To: <201402251821.s1PILFn1017349@vapor.isi.edu> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 15:21:59 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <0N1H00AI2X32KJ50@st11p00mm-smtpin003.mac.com> <3B235EF6-8323-4D3B-AACB-716683987D77@virtualized.org> <743F1E0E-A3DC-4920-8472-3F722C3A314F@shinkuro.com> <09A8FAED-3F52-423E-A764-8C86911480ED@isi.edu> <221C1A56-3C68-4FD1-9170-560DE9C530C1@isi.edu> <201402251821.s1PILFn1017349@vapor.isi.edu> To: JFC Morfin X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1874) X-ISI-4-43-8-MailScanner: Found to be clean X-MailScanner-From: bmanning@isi.edu Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/vidDprQPgeBEgL5wWwRQ8j_2w3o X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 06:54:20 -0800 Cc: "discuss@1net.org List" , Seun Ojedeji , iucg@ietf.org, iab@iab.org Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] rootservers X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 23:22:51 -0000 Still more questions and based on a printed report, a serious lack of = sustainable structure for such a grand vision as the VGNIC=85 /bill Neca eos omnes. Deus suos agnoscet. On 25February2014Tuesday, at 10:21, JFC Morfin = wrote: >=20 > To answer your question posed to Elisabeth: > - we will discuss some practicalities, at a Free ISP monthly members = meeting in France, probably next week. URL for the meeting, venue, participants, program? > - then http://doodle.com/u9wnrr3quz3f8fmy on March 11 in Paris, the = day after the French IGF.=20 again, URL for this meeting, its venue, participants, and = program would be most helpful > - the target is to prepare a coordinated/concerted project at the IUCG = OpenCamp during the Montpellier (France) FLOSS RMLL meeting, during the = second week of July. Google shows a disconnected history of the FLOSS RMLL meetings, = with sporadic reporting going back at least six years. RMLL = (Rencontres Mondiales du Logiciel Libre) report from 2013 reads: RMLL 2013 Report Blog post by mmu_man on Mon, 2013-07-15 23:23 lsm, rmll This year, the RMLL (Rencontres Mondiales du Logiciel Libre) / LSM = (Libre Software Meeting) were held in Brussels, in the very same place = where FOSDEM is held every year, although not by the same team. The trip to RMLL is usually by itself full of surprises. This time, I = took the train to Paris on friday evening, since a friend from April (a = french Free Software advocacy association) was kind enough to let me = have a couch for the night before car-sharing to Brussels. However, I = didn't have his full address, only the metro station, and of course when = I arrived there, calling his phone wouldn't ring him at all. Luckily = enough i still had some battery left on the laptop and found a hotspot I = could use to log on IRC and ping him so he could phone me and direct me = to his flat. Then on saturday after having left Paris to pick up some = others in Lille, he noticed he forgot his wallet at home, so I would = have to lend him some cash. We found the others and went to Brussels, = straight to the "Place de la monnaie" in the town center, where the = General Public Weekend was taking place, only to be told we had to go to = the ULB (Universit=E9 Libre de Bruxelles) to get our vouchers for the = youth hostel and camping. So we went there, then to the camping where we = left the car, then back to the Libre Village. You see these stories make = for some nice introduction ;-) The few booths there for the weekend were targeted to the general = public, with FLOSS advocacy groups and educational projects.=20 >=20 > jfc From nobody Wed Feb 26 06:54:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AC5401A0188 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:43:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.401 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.401 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, GB_I_LETTER=-2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, MANGLED_OFF=2.3, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dzGbr9QtYwsx for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:43:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ee0-f54.google.com (mail-ee0-f54.google.com [74.125.83.54]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6F7A31A0172 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:43:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ee0-f54.google.com with SMTP id c41so355614eek.27 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:43:05 -0800 (PST) X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:subject:mime-version:content-type:from :in-reply-to:date:cc:message-id:references:to; bh=+l5EafH+VgsLhE8yLWv3WYDZPOac9Jm1CjDM89QQAlM=; b=bEOw58ee0sBghM5CocdQUcWpdyNInf7S61ePx2C3r+yxKmRzeHEeXsj3iQeTeviecg 6l7TYwUjXlpwQUQOSUu1RXHXSmtzzKOu+gr/V4jZYAwHHjtiBR2AZ2vVyHdWaOEDCINv yIRUC/GrlejOiRd+mo/eG3OxUNN4EhjBfrC4olq9m9KwY7fuQIsSZeFLowSq0bWkjweQ QpMThgP+JE91CyndDs+wlGuk7MhV6HjUnFtVL8uZh8Y4SNbmbGR34PryeCAoTDgLdvZD UYmckcsM0gblzkgMI/W9fZV/yCdNC8TCvY/TDAdJFEFzlnbl36k9cvPeYEkSPFW+CKMd dZSA== X-Gm-Message-State: ALoCoQmItsZmfO38som0p3WwF05PzS6YP0XHbyyijOY3XiDfRsk7HVTE2+1OOO1tb83F8uveHdYO X-Received: by 10.14.225.67 with SMTP id y43mr5622520eep.10.1393407785789; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:43:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.1.246] (cable-24-135-55-78.dynamic.sbb.rs. [24.135.55.78]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id k41sm1533774een.19.2014.02.26.01.43.02 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Wed, 26 Feb 2014 01:43:04 -0800 (PST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1283) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_F5D22D21-C975-4A5C-811F-7E1ADCAB698C" From: Desiree In-Reply-To: <530d595c.f18ec20a.2fd0.ffffe6e2SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:43:08 +0000 Message-Id: <0B0B619B-22E1-4F7F-876C-7460790483DF@relax.co.uk> References: <530d595c.f18ec20a.2fd0.ffffe6e2SMTPIN_ADDED_MISSING@mx.google.com> To: Elisabeth Blanconil X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1283) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/uYup094dSRsOFI3FG3C84T5YyeI X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 06:54:20 -0800 Cc: "discuss@1net.org" , iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] vgnic - mdrs information X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 09:43:12 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_F5D22D21-C975-4A5C-811F-7E1ADCAB698C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii On 26 Feb 2014, at 03:00, Elisabeth Blanconil wrote: Hi Hebe Thank you for your effort in putting up these mock-ups for the = discussion.=20 However I fail to understand how we could have a productive discussion = if we do not get your data correct=20 and do not share the same terminology. > on http://vgnics.net/MDRS.htm you will find three files. >=20 > 1. a list of the top zone name server constallation coordinators = and/or managers: =20 For example in your map you put the following country, New Zealand as a = contact for the Internet Software Consortium? It may be one of the instances of the root server installed there, but I = believe you should also know that the ISC is based out of Southern=20 California.=20 A0046 ICANN-F f.root-servers.net 3557 Internet Systems = Consortium, Inc.56 Auckland NZ 1 I am confused as to why would you choose to put one instance of the F = root server here under the NZ? As David Conrad earlier indicated earlier to you, you can find all the = instances of all root server here, including the geographical = presentation to add to your textual one and update your map with more accurate = information: http://www.root-servers.org/ So if you scroll to the bottom of the page you will find any of these = "top zone name servers" and their copies=20 by choosing any letter any of the 13 letters. For example you will = instantly see the number, 55 for all the current instances of F root server. > 2. the number of top zone name servers number per ISO 3166 country = codes: http://vgnics.net/VGN-NR3166.txt I believe what you call top zone name server is a a root server and any = of its installed instances around the world. > 3. the list of the top zone servers with contacts for those I know: = http://vgnics.net/VGN-TZH.txt Again, same comment as number one with regards to F. http://www.iana.org/domains/root/servers >=20 > These are hand made mock-ups to help discussing the project. Thanks = for your comments. I might have missed an earlier point you made on the list? What is your = project trying to achieve?=20 Hope this helps. Desiree -- > Hebe >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > discuss mailing list > discuss@1net.org > http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss --Apple-Mail=_F5D22D21-C975-4A5C-811F-7E1ADCAB698C Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
on http://vgnics.net/MDRS.htm you = will find three files.

1. a list of the top zone name server = constallation coordinators and/or managers: =   

For example in your map you put the = following country, New Zealand as a contact for the Internet Software = Consortium?
It may be one of the instances of the root server = installed there, but I believe you should also know that the ISC is = based out of Southern 
California. 
A0046 ICANN-F f.root-servers.net 3557 = Internet Systems Consortium, Inc.56 Auckland NZ = 1

I am confused as to why would you = choose to put one instance of the F root server here under the = NZ?

As David Conrad earlier indicated earlier = to you, you can find all the instances of all root server here, = including the geographical presentation
to add to your textual = one and update your map with more accurate = information:

http://www.root-servers.org/

So if you scroll to the bottom of the page you = will find any of these "top zone name servers" and their = copies 
by choosing any letter any of the 13 = letters. For example you will instantly see the number, 55 for all the = current
instances of F root = server.

2. the number = of top zone name servers number per ISO 3166 country codes: http://vgnics.net/VGN-NR3166.txt=

I believe what you call top = zone name server is a a root server and any of its installed instances = around the world.

3. the list of the top zone servers with contacts for = those I know: http://vgnics.net/VGN-TZH.txt

Again, same comment as number one with = regards to F.


These are hand made mock-ups to help discussing = the project. Thanks for your = comments.

I might have missed = an earlier point you made on the list? What is your project trying to = achieve? 

Hope this = helps.

Desiree
--

<= /div>
Hebe


_______________________________________= ________
discuss mailing list
discuss@1net.org
http://1net-mail.= 1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

= --Apple-Mail=_F5D22D21-C975-4A5C-811F-7E1ADCAB698C-- From info@vgnic.org Wed Feb 26 02:57:47 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 224931A023E for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 02:57:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.732 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.732 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BdwDsluzxWYS for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 02:57:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 870E31A0239 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 02:57:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vgnic.org; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Subject:From:To:Date; bh=lVKNwGBEzytVomv15rJjtFTh7eDVEnfCNuKKjNWLoxw=; b=aBCZ+TLANUxMjv7z+TYxGI+LBzC6o54UX8vpjYRuRC/hgazH9++PFvn/xEPQ6D6Is6lYoHxsr2lJyWzvdNn8fh4gWckD66ectcc4j3CIn3qRxZEk07AD+4k4/kXa/qR5QAdwx6kcYX5D0WEiBGkK61cMYQPyvFGHjQ2dJiDeLIk=; Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:49295 helo=Morfin-PC.vgnic.org) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WIcBL-0002xZ-N8; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 02:57:44 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 11:57:40 +0100 To: William Drake From: Elisabeth Blanconil In-Reply-To: <50BEA799-0981-4F50-AE9E-A6A2A7359946@gmail.com> References: <50BEA799-0981-4F50-AE9E-A6A2A7359946@gmail.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_27352232==.ALT" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vgnic.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: info+vgnic.org/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/ZZrtOj9r9md491CVAKf91574Y7k X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 06:54:15 -0800 Cc: "discuss@1net.org" , iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] Conference: ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to Sao Paulo, and Beyond, Singapore 21 March 2014 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:52:08 -0000 X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:52:08 -0000 --=====================_27352232==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thank you William, At 03:37 26/02/2014, you wrote: >"ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to S=E3o Paulo, and Beyond" What seems interesting is that whatever the=20 meeting may discuss or state the ICANN and our=20 GIG "Beyond" is already determined: principles,=20 globalization, institutional innovation, by ... >17:15-17:45 Keynote Assessment by Larry=20 >Strickling, Asst. Secretary of Commerce, Government of the United States. After all, I think I should discuss the interplus=20 2015 project governance rather than the old1983=20 USG internet. Not the same generation.... But Gregory may be confused. Hebe. --=====================_27352232==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Thank you William,

At 03:37 26/02/2014, you wrote:
"ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to S=E3o Paulo, and Beyond"

What seems interesting is that whatever the meeting may discuss or state the ICANN and our GIG "Beyond" is already determined: principles, globalization, institutional innovation, by ...
17:15-17:45     Keynote Assessment by Larry Strickling, Asst. Secretary of Commerce, Government of the United States.

After all, I think I should discuss the interplus 2015 project governance rather than the old1983 USG internet. Not the same generation....
But Gregory may be confused.
Hebe.

--=====================_27352232==.ALT-- From info@vgnic.org Tue Feb 25 19:01:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 725531A0844 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.731 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.731 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_95=3, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id L9oMx4zFZxiC for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A3CD01A0842 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vgnic.org; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:Cc:Subject:From:To:Date; bh=5dfqkT6KabS+gJm12GGOI+A9eOc3Dw3XMBkkkzMFXj4=; b=aCqvqb+HoxaNgsz1EUJQ2FeSwXoQlRjnkaGqzYd5urHp/beahd8OtKSUuOjQu7+d2ip/WEIlvi79CjI7qvvwR4pUzKpHj5M5vBzCgSG/5o1ZWoPJWlLqaFZPdZ84WUc/mGy8zZ6F44uKKL2HuEBKeXdiAsSAQ1ApexI75GsZkDU=; Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:60359 helo=Morfin-PC.vgnic.org) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WIUkr-0007pF-El; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:53 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 04:00:31 +0100 To: iucg@ietf.org From: Elisabeth Blanconil Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vgnic.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: info+vgnic.org/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/oWbb6uFkZP5C34NzqsvF2kODZ5U X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 06:54:19 -0800 Cc: "discuss@1net.org" Subject: [iucg] vgnic - mdrs information X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:52:08 -0000 on http://vgnics.net/MDRS.htm you will find three files. 1. a list of the top zone name server constallation coordinators and/or managers: http://vgnics.net/VGN-TZH.txt 2. the number of top zone name servers number per ISO 3166 country codes: http://vgnics.net/VGN-NR3166.txt 3. the list of the top zone servers with contacts for those I know: http://vgnics.net/VGN-TZH.txt These are hand made mock-ups to help discussing the project. Thanks for your comments. Hebe From info@vgnic.org Tue Feb 25 19:01:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87E751A0845 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.531 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6AR_DFBr-cen for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93F4C1A03B1 for ; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:54 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vgnic.org; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Subject:From:To:Date; bh=abGqEB0V5oyoZlbMEnFN9T8j+9AMsGsAdV3IEKaXRoU=; b=NEgaxPW05qhBsY4WY/OVHg6gCAvU1MJa61byc2Udd/t9HK3C6K/pHMYbR4H48jq4JyLreUzFhBr0Zaqfw9zyYCp+2itmsdY6vRRryAP5vAsj2p6EoYX3fh8S2PndWoy+efrpeluIjchovwekW1MJXcLBF8NmdtdfbvEj6/smtaI=; Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:60359 helo=Morfin-PC.vgnic.org) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WIUkp-0007pF-Va; Tue, 25 Feb 2014 19:01:52 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 04:01:48 +0100 To: manning bill ,JFC Morfin From: Elisabeth Blanconil In-Reply-To: References: <0N1H00AI2X32KJ50@st11p00mm-smtpin003.mac.com> <3B235EF6-8323-4D3B-AACB-716683987D77@virtualized.org> <743F1E0E-A3DC-4920-8472-3F722C3A314F@shinkuro.com> <09A8FAED-3F52-423E-A764-8C86911480ED@isi.edu> <221C1A56-3C68-4FD1-9170-560DE9C530C1@isi.edu> <201402251821.s1PILFn1017349@vapor.isi.edu> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vgnic.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: info+vgnic.org/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/GUAcJ1k_RJ1VhpVxbSJqoIVS2is X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 06:54:20 -0800 Cc: iab@iab.org, "discuss@1net.org List" , iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] rootservers X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 14:52:10 -0000 ?? Dear Bill, I am not sure I understand this mail of yours. At 00:21 26/02/2014, manning bill wrote: >Still more questions and based on a printed report, Which printed report? >a serious lack of sustainable structure for such a grand vision as the= VGNIC=85 Grand vision? hmmmm. It seems that you confuse with ICANN. In the IETF=20 the idea is running code, at the IUCG it is living mode. What we want to experiment first is the adequate=20 size and vision for the modest task of common=20 secretariat which is required and its necessary tools. When considering the ICANN's myriad of tasks our=20 option is "Neca eos omnes. Usores ilos agnoscent." >URL for the meeting, venue, participants, program? > > > - then http://doodle.com/u9wnrr3quz3f8fmy on=20 > March 11 in Paris, the day after the French IGF. > again, URL for this meeting, its venue,=20 > participants, and program would be most helpful ?? you got it. > > - the target is to prepare a=20 > coordinated/concerted project at the IUCG=20 > OpenCamp during the Montpellier (France) FLOSS=20 > RMLL meeting, during the second week of July. >Google shows a disconnected history of the FLOSS=20 >RMLL meetings, with sporadic reporting going=20 >back at least six years. RMLL (Rencontres=20 >Mondiales du Logiciel Libre) report from 2013 reads: ?? JFC told you "during". It will be an IUCG=20 meeting at our place when plenty of people will=20 be around or on the beach.Nothing is decided yet.=20 This will be discussed among organizers.during=20 the next months. We are more interested in=20 serious explorations and good working tools than in press releases. Best. Hebe From nobody Wed Feb 26 10:45:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E93D11A0139 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:44:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.831 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.831 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_80=2, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Qn5xNPLzLCui for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:44:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F20191A0118 for ; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:44:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:38305 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WIjTM-0004Zu-0T; Wed, 26 Feb 2014 10:44:48 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 19:44:40 +0100 To: iucg@ietf.org,info@vgnics.org From: Jefsey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/d8V-UubkDr1WZfUCt8zXCKs5pKk Cc: "discuss@1net.org List" Subject: [iucg] vgnis.net site X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Feb 2014 18:44:56 -0000 I have added the page Elisabeth requested on the project perspective http://vgnics.net/vgnics/index.php/The_project_perspective. I suggest we leave Jean-Michel tuning the site. May be could we pass the MDRS pages under the wiki? This might make it simpler for an MS support? (we would need a good PHP/Wikimedist to help with a few scripts). Anyone on the list? Another point after discussing with Jean-Michel this AM: we must differentiate the concepts and the prototype applications as long as this is not a precise project based upon an existing tool (like Bind 9 or 10). Let remember that the needs in terms of HomeRoot are different and that we can use the dtrick to support classes easily. jfc PS. I suggest that those who are interested in debatting VGNICS as a netywork project and not as a governance issue join us on the iucg@ietf.org mailing list. From nobody Thu Feb 27 07:11:07 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D7AD1A0305 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:11:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.531 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id P5TWM9TxegE6 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:10:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E4DE81A024F for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:10:57 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vgnic.org; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Subject:From:To:Date; bh=gx5n5QtnWStHFBgwwzbh0ynxBymuBQwyFhoi8ZmDhqE=; b=cpimzeSGu2mL83GLDmQBOZIRXrNrbGJOXlQSS32OOVU+IrGtmUdv5q1uNB8rnjI3lua1VmzKQZ//nbIZ2JS9nd57YpjXAnKRT1/awy0prZHZhNzPc30qWMqyD0AZKguq4TYSZjtlcG9fdkrPsRWnaoCFqDsBcYimHBStBVC1pC0=; Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:49456 helo=Morfin-PC.vgnic.org) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WJ2bv-0005eh-1s; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:10:55 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:10:49 +0100 To: Roland Perry ,discuss@1net.org From: Elisabeth Blanconil In-Reply-To: References: <20140224102847.5AA4E1FB89@inbound-queue-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vgnic.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: info+vgnic.org/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/DF093nm-XXEQBxPx8BZhmMETvLc Cc: iucg@ietf.org Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] rootservers X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:11:04 -0000 At 08:51 27/02/2014, Roland Perry wrote: >In message ><20140224102847.5AA4E1FB89@inbound-queue-2.mail.thdo.gradwell.net>, >at 05:10:00 on Mon, 24 Feb 2014, Elisabeth Blanconil writes > >>UG - Uganda: 9 > >Is this perhaps a typo for "UK", which isn't otherwise listed. I >know it has root servers, I've seen them! Thanks! The work I did was simply to give some ideas to people wanting to contribute to the HomeRoot/VGNICS experimentation on the IUCG mailing list. This seems to have confused some of the people on the /1net mailing who are not familiar with the IUser stakeholders (or prefer to ignore us :-)). Best Hebe >-- >Roland Perry > >_______________________________________________ >discuss mailing list >discuss@1net.org >http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss From nobody Thu Feb 27 07:11:09 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8499C1A024F for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:11:04 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.531 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vstkzf4WkM2r for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:11:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 99BBF1A02FF for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:11:00 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vgnic.org; s=default; h=Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Subject:From:To:Date; bh=Au30KjIdOFfyjf7oDXjpcRJwBWNO0mDF01Uxn8vhUbA=; b=talPscUV3oq91LRPUAMPy7Yh10ScStu8kDaYqidUQrISz2PVvicCP7qipHpobam0qwImqg/BuUNVJ2Eb4cqCBRksEkTFSj+gQbvuBTnYtdyXGauoZRTSc+RiVXOgmpvu9jVMvcQQbEzwzHslTMdmT0BrNvLaB53vNz28oJD2mZs=; Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:49456 helo=Morfin-PC.vgnic.org) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WJ2by-0005eh-TW; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 07:10:59 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 16:08:44 +0100 To: "Shatan, Gregory S." , William Drake From: Elisabeth Blanconil In-Reply-To: References: <50BEA799-0981-4F50-AE9E-A6A2A7359946@gmail.com> <03673.114022605581000511@us-mta-7.us.mimecast.lan> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vgnic.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: info+vgnic.org/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/7JPyjPkzR_-7z5Y4gJhQIOqXV5Q Cc: "discuss@1net.org" , "iucg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] Conference: ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to Sao Paulo, and Beyond, Singapore 21 March 2014 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 15:11:04 -0000 At 09:17 27/02/2014, Shatan, Gregory S. wrote: >Ad personam attacks add nothing but =E2=80=9Cnoise=E2=80=9D=20 >to this or any other list. I suppose this is my=20 >punishment for challenging the use of =E2=80=9CVGNIC-speak.=E2=80=9D >That said =96 am I the only one confused by the=20 >reference to =E2=80=9Cinterplus 2015 project=20 >governance=E2=80=9D? If so, I look forward to someone=20 >from outside the VGNIC sphere of influence explaining it. You are the Gegory I refered to. The is no attack! but care. No punishment but kind concern about the problem=20 you reported with our "VGNIC-speak". You copied the iucg@ietf.org mailing list. I am=20 sure your input will be considered. We already=20 gave a definition of CGN, VGNIC, VGNICS on our site for you. We will probably put links to the IUCG details on=20 PLUS, interplus, etc. which concerns the higher=20 layers not yet fully supported by the IEN 48 project non-IETF completion. But please, give us time. We are not paid for that. And proceed by= consensus. >If I am not the Gregory to which you refer, my apologies. Loves means never having to say you are sorry. Hebe. From nobody Thu Feb 27 09:27:54 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 385F01A00FB for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:27:53 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.531 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bHc6_Ku84gM4 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:27:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0177A1A0104 for ; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:27:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vgnic.org; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Subject:From:To:Date; bh=8HdPJDu2G6WjD4FrL/hzpEh4Hl5caP+VzlLg/OC+ISA=; b=d6bHJopdnWT7h3HNXhs7XmGXhbHOK3my0TsPXYD/jLYiZ4XqwE21DY6XhrQYYp2nXU8m0WBNFNN6KePWr4RbSmfGGL4GRInioy4wN2V64LcnmV2Hqjh4Cf/R/qnYdHtQY3tmE0QNVhxy8PbMJx90ZniV2UwwswaHBKpnpwilSWc=; Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:49622 helo=Morfin-PC.vgnic.org) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WJ4kP-0003N7-Mq; Thu, 27 Feb 2014 09:27:50 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 18:27:02 +0100 To: John Curran From: Elisabeth Blanconil In-Reply-To: <71C588C8-5121-4C5D-B220-8D350ED5CE50@istaff.org> References: <50BEA799-0981-4F50-AE9E-A6A2A7359946@gmail.com> <03673.114022605581000511@us-mta-7.us.mimecast.lan> <20140227151201.AE06D213694@smtp2.arin.net> <71C588C8-5121-4C5D-B220-8D350ED5CE50@istaff.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vgnic.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: info+vgnic.org/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/OG0oq3FicuIugtHx68s6BSZsUCA Cc: William Drake , "Shatan, Gregory S." , "discuss@1net.org" , "iucg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] Conference: ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to Sao Paulo, and Beyond, Singapore 21 March 2014 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Feb 2014 17:27:53 -0000 At 17:20 27/02/2014, John Curran wrote: >On Feb 27, 2014, at 10:08 AM, Elisabeth Blanconil wrote: > > > No punishment but kind concern about the problem you reported > with our "VGNIC-speak". > >Hebe - > > It might significantly improve understanding of those on the 1net discuss > list if the IUCG community could use existing ICANN and Internet governance > terminology for its input on the list. If this isn't possible, feel free > to disregard, but presently the lack of specific suggestions using common > vernacular may be inhibiting actual communication of ideas. John, I understand that. The problem is that if these terms existed (actually if the concepts had not been politically banned by the "ICANNly correct" for commercial and TM/IP reasons) there would be not need for the /1net debate, the Internet Governance, as I pointed it out from Joe Sims, the guy who designed ICANN, not being the ICANN cup of tea. Through its mission creep in the early 2000s ICANN has imposed itself as being "THE" Internet Governance. This is an obvious BUG that is to be fixed. We know how to fix it since most of us use the internet for years without using anything from ICANN. This is not because we oppose ICANN, this is just that ICANN is just a VGNIC as others. And, that the DNS internet security, surety and stability as organized by ICANN (its sole role as per Joe Sims) are middle grade and dependent from a government. Things which we do not trust. We demand a better QoS. There is a general need for users (Govs, Industry, IUsers, etc.) to improve the effilience of their Internet. This is the main technical role of the IG. The way we use the Internet without ICANN is better than the way that ICANN proposes. However the ICANN contribution as the leading VGNIC is certainly a plus. This is why the WSIS has called for enhanced cooperation initiatives. In addition we technically fear that the ICANN's attitude leads to a more complex technical situation where national, private and civil VGNs could become more difficult to document and hence to use. In particular we fear an instability of the IONS that would affect the e-business. We also want CCN VGNs to be quickly experimented and supported, as well as to see experiment develop in the semantic addressing area and build upon the Wikimedia experiment. In a nutshell we perfectly understand that some people wants to keep their 1983 terminology, but we are afraid they will only discuss a 1983 IG and not our IUser 2014 IG. This is why there are two options: to continue like Jefsey advocated, to help improving an informed technical use towards the initial second (multi technology) phase of the Internet, or - if this is less confusing for some - to say that we switch to a next network generation. This is exactly the same. It is a question of terminology and of centricity. Either there is an evolution from decentralized to distributed. Or we say the network is distributed (period!) and we support it with what currently exists. I would favor that. The problem is the addressing plan management. Are addresses linked to the topology or to the hosts? The solution is that ITU or China, or Liecheinstein say: "I take over an IPv6 portion and I manage it according to the network topology, period. Addresses are NEVER owned by Hosts". Hebe From nobody Fri Feb 28 07:08:03 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85F3E1A01E8 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:08:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.801 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.801 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 3k21GEwunWse for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:07:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from mho-02-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-02-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 627EE1A084A for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 07:07:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool-108-45-30-69.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([108.45.30.69] helo=[192.168.1.9]) by mho-02-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WJP2R-0006mR-E2 for iucg@ietf.org; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:07:47 +0000 X-Mail-Handler: Dyn Standard SMTP by Dyn X-Originating-IP: 108.45.30.69 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/sendlabs/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX193yy5Viqzlac6XmIvsRSV/ From: John Curran Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_AB996755-5AA2-48E9-8E99-458898AF6749" Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:07:46 -0500 References: <20140228130258.DBCF4213691@smtp2.arin.net> To: iucg@ietf.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.1 \(1827\)) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/7YD34BcyuhbXX8WYDrt5lkRpi6E Subject: [iucg] Fwd: [discuss] 1net discuss and VGNICs X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 15:08:01 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_AB996755-5AA2-48E9-8E99-458898AF6749 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Michel -=20 So, how is "VGNICS intergovernance" (i.e. that coordination necessary to = intercommunication among VGNs) supposed to work? Is it entirely within the scope of = technical standards, or are there operational coordination aspects? /John Disclaimer: My views alone. Begin forwarded message: > From: Michel Gauthier > Subject: Re: [discuss] 1net discuss and VGNICs > Date: February 28, 2014 at 8:00:46 AM EST > To: John Curran , Michel Gauthier = > Cc: "discuss@1net.org" >=20 > At 05:27 28/02/2014, John Curran wrote: >> On Feb 27, 2014, at 8:12 PM, Michel Gauthier = wrote: >> >> I honestly cannot discern any indication of interest by those on = the 1net discuss list to expanding the discussion to include governance = questions applicable to VGNICS in general (as opposed to simply = discussion of governance aspects of the "ICANN VGNIC"). >=20 > This is more subtle. This list has been created by ICANN order in = order to discuss the Internet Governance, whithout addressing the first = question of Nathalie: "What is the internet?", implying that the ICANN = community is the Internet community. Elisabeth testifies that she does = not belong to the ICANN community, for QoS reasons that may affect every = of us, but that she obviously belongs to the internet community. Jefsey = will explain that we are more widely members of the digiphere ecosystem. >=20 > What Greg, Don, Marylin, etc. do is to give an inadequate boring but = real notoriety to VGNs. This protects ICANN from going to the bottom of = the things. However, it leads intelligent people (and there are many of = them on this list) to understand the trick and to ask themslves why does = ICANN need or leave it to develop. Technically ICANN is a VGNIC along = the definition given on http://vgnics.net/vgnics. It was very simple to = ICANN to acknoweldge it or to contest it. Rather than not commenting = Elisabeth's quote of Joe Sims. >=20 >> > 2. discuss@1net.org: it is about the Internet governance, >> Yes. >>=20 >> > i.e. about the VGNICS intergovernance. >> No... can't find any reference to VGNICS on 1net site, only Internet. = You have chosen to equate the two, but that doesn't mean everyone else = subscribes to that belief system. >=20 > You are right. Please remember, I only wish to be an humble and = rigorist analyst. I read people who equates VGN/VGNICs with more than = the Internet, and I have no one who says otherwise. >=20 > If I might venture a personal suggestion it would be to follow = Elisabeth's rather than Jefsey's approach (according to her). i.e. to = split the internet end to end layers from an interplus fringe to fringe = layers (as per the Brian Carpenter's model). This way we could have two = different items: >=20 > - the internet governance (ING) discussed in Sao Paulo and at the GAC = with Govs. Technically supported at the IETF. > - the interplus governance (IPG) discussed at the IGF with everyone = interested (Govs, business, CS, techies and academics). Technically = supported at the IUCG. >=20 > This would permit ICANN both: > - to stay in its ING Joe Sims' legal role: i.e. the stability of the = DNS IN Class owed to the NTIA. > - to freely globalize outside of any USG involvement as a VGNIC (i.e. = IANA disseminator). >=20 > M G =20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > discuss mailing list > discuss@1net.org > http://1net-mail.1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss --Apple-Mail=_AB996755-5AA2-48E9-8E99-458898AF6749 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Michel = - 

So, how is "VGNICS intergovernance" (i.e. = that coordination necessary to intercommunication
among VGNs) = supposed to work?   Is it entirely within the scope of technical = standards, or are
there operational coordination = aspects?

/John

Disclaime= r:  My views alone.

Begin forwarded = message:

From: = Michel Gauthier = <mg@telepresse.com>
Subject: Re: [discuss] 1net discuss and = VGNICs
Date: = February 28, 2014 at = 8:00:46 AM EST
To: = John Curran <jcurran@istaff.org>, Michel = Gauthier <mg@telepresse.com>
=
At 05:27 28/02/2014, John Curran wrote:
On Feb 27, 2014, at 8:12 PM, Michel Gauthier <mg@telepresse.com> = wrote:
>> I honestly cannot discern any indication of interest = by those on the 1net discuss list to expanding the discussion to include = governance questions applicable to VGNICS in general (as opposed to = simply discussion of governance aspects of the "ICANN = VGNIC").

This is more subtle. This list has been = created by ICANN order in order to discuss the Internet Governance, = whithout addressing the first question of Nathalie: "What is the = internet?", implying that the ICANN community is the Internet community. = Elisabeth testifies that she does not belong to the ICANN community, for = QoS reasons that may affect every of us, but that she obviously belongs = to the internet community. Jefsey will explain that we are more widely = members of the digiphere ecosystem.

What Greg, Don, Marylin, etc. = do is to give an inadequate boring but real notoriety to VGNs. This = protects ICANN from going to the bottom of the things. However, it leads = intelligent people (and there are many of them on this list) to = understand the trick and to ask themslves why does ICANN need or leave = it to develop. Technically ICANN is a VGNIC along the definition given = on http://vgnics.net/vgnics. It = was very simple to ICANN to acknoweldge it or to contest it. Rather than = not commenting Elisabeth's quote of Joe Sims.

> 2. discuss@1net.org: it is about the = Internet governance,
Yes.

> i.e. about the VGNICS = intergovernance.
No... can't find any reference to VGNICS on 1net = site, only Internet.  You have chosen to equate the two, but that = doesn't mean everyone else subscribes to that belief = system.

You are right. Please remember, I only wish = to be an humble and rigorist analyst. I read people who equates = VGN/VGNICs with more than the Internet, and I have no one who says = otherwise.

If I might venture a personal suggestion it would be = to follow Elisabeth's rather than Jefsey's approach (according to her). = i.e. to split the internet end to end layers from an interplus fringe to = fringe layers (as per the Brian Carpenter's model). This way we could = have two different items:

- the internet governance (ING) = discussed in Sao Paulo and at the GAC with Govs. Technically supported = at the IETF.
- the interplus governance (IPG) discussed at the IGF = with everyone interested (Govs, business, CS, techies and academics). = Technically supported at the IUCG.

This would permit ICANN = both:
- to stay in its ING Joe Sims' legal role: i.e. the stability = of the DNS IN Class owed to the NTIA.
- to freely globalize outside = of any USG involvement as a VGNIC (i.e. IANA disseminator).

M G =  

_______________________________________________
discuss = mailing list
discuss@1net.org
http://1net-mail.= 1net.org/mailman/listinfo/discuss

= --Apple-Mail=_AB996755-5AA2-48E9-8E99-458898AF6749-- From nobody Fri Feb 28 09:01:31 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C41191A02FF for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:01:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.631 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.631 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JjzTlT-4Ig0S for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52F361A0285 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:01:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from [85.159.233.116] (port=58524 helo=MORFIN-PC.jefsey.com) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WJQoP-0006IB-Ix; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 09:01:26 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 18:01:21 +0100 To: John Curran ,Elisabeth Blanconil From: Jefsey In-Reply-To: <71C588C8-5121-4C5D-B220-8D350ED5CE50@istaff.org> References: <50BEA799-0981-4F50-AE9E-A6A2A7359946@gmail.com> <03673.114022605581000511@us-mta-7.us.mimecast.lan> <20140227151201.AE06D213694@smtp2.arin.net> <71C588C8-5121-4C5D-B220-8D350ED5CE50@istaff.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/VBoMcho6RhLqAopEu7yXjd3WPsU Cc: "discuss@1net.org" , "iucg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] Conference: ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to Sao Paulo, and Beyond, Singapore 21 March 2014 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 17:01:29 -0000 >I do realize that some of the "new" terminology refers to existing >Internet concepts (only more generalized) but believe in the end >that it may be inhibiting ability of folks to understand the >specific recommendations that the IUCG are making when it comes to >ICANN, IANA functions, etc. > >It might significantly improve understanding of those on the 1net >discuss list if the IUCG community could use existing ICANN and >Internet governance terminology for its input on the list. If this >isn't possible, feel free to disregard, but presently the lack of >specific suggestions using common vernacular may be inhibiting >actual communication of ideas. Dear John, you certainly realize then that most of the Internet Governance first level difficulties come from the appropriation of the general Internet concepts by ICANN reduced vernaculars . This is the way they have made believe they could have a monopoly on the namespace and its Governance. Freeing the governance from this pseudo monopoly penomenon (i.e. what people perceive) is simple: it only consists in using Internet general terms instead of those ICANN created for its limited scope. For example ICANN is the INTERNIC, i.e. the NIC of the Internet VGN. Told in using this Doug Engelbart/Jon Postel's term, it makes evident to everyone that it cannot be an internet governance monopoly. The same as FACEBOOK is the NIC of their own social virtual global network. And ORSN is another NIC for the Internet VGN. And INTLNET was the historical global NIC. If you want to address the Internet Governance issue, you need to use IG terms. If you only want to discuss ICANN you can use ICANN words. The question in Sao Paulo, IGF and "beyond" is: do Govs and Telcos want to discuss ICANN or the internet or more (the whole digital system, the digisphere). This is what our lawyers demand: not to use jargons. We misunderstand each other because some use general terminology and other local ones (ex. ICANN, or postal, or Twitter, etc. terminologies). A database is a database. A registry is a database where one does not delete information, just add new qualified ones. A directory such as the Whois is a directory, like the telephone or the postal directories. The internet governance has specifics, but is not basically different from the road governance. Cheers! jfc From nobody Fri Feb 28 10:40:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 18A3C1A0144 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:40:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ARPDaWrC0E_P for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org (mho-03-ewr.mailhop.org [204.13.248.66]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 540871A0238 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 10:40:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from pool-108-45-30-69.washdc.fios.verizon.net ([108.45.30.69] helo=[192.168.1.9]) by mho-01-ewr.mailhop.org with esmtpsa (TLSv1:AES128-SHA:128) (Exim 4.72) (envelope-from ) id 1WJSMR-000FKt-Bq; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 18:40:39 +0000 X-Mail-Handler: Dyn Standard SMTP by Dyn X-Originating-IP: 108.45.30.69 X-Report-Abuse-To: abuse@dyndns.com (see http://www.dyndns.com/services/sendlabs/outbound_abuse.html for abuse reporting information) X-MHO-User: U2FsdGVkX19gOKl6vTiRjE6ggjUxLfqE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 7.1 \(1827\)) From: John Curran In-Reply-To: <20140228170206.C0E0D213692@smtp2.arin.net> Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 13:40:36 -0500 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <57877C60-D9E6-4287-8E99-834E88D49AF3@istaff.org> References: <50BEA799-0981-4F50-AE9E-A6A2A7359946@gmail.com> <03673.114022605581000511@us-mta-7.us.mimecast.lan> <20140227151201.AE06D213694@smtp2.arin.net> <71C588C8-5121-4C5D-B220-8D350ED5CE50@istaff.org> <20140228170206.C0E0D213692@smtp2.arin.net> To: Jefsey X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1827) Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/oHgMELkL3GSpORgRdM4jmaFAQcY Cc: "iucg@ietf.org" , Elisabeth Blanconil Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] Conference: ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to Sao Paulo, and Beyond, Singapore 21 March 2014 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 18:40:46 -0000 On Feb 28, 2014, at 12:01 PM, Jefsey wrote: >=20 >> I do realize that some of the "new" terminology refers to existing = Internet concepts (only more generalized) but believe in the end that it = may be inhibiting ability of folks to understand the specific = recommendations that the IUCG are making when it comes to ICANN, IANA = functions, etc. >>=20 >> It might significantly improve understanding of those on the 1net = discuss list if the IUCG community could use existing ICANN and Internet = governance terminology for its input on the list. If this isn't = possible, feel free to disregard, but presently the lack of specific = suggestions using common vernacular may be inhibiting actual = communication of ideas. >=20 > Dear John, >=20 > you certainly realize then that most of the Internet Governance first = level difficulties come from the appropriation of the general Internet = concepts by ICANN reduced vernaculars. Possibly the case, but still the choice of those who participate using such terminology. > This is the way they have made believe they could have a monopoly on = the namespace and its Governance. Freeing the governance from this = pseudo monopoly penomenon (i.e. what people perceive) is simple: it only = consists in using Internet general terms instead of those ICANN created = for its limited scope. Excellent - then you are already free; congratulations! > If you want to address the Internet Governance issue, you need to use = IG terms. If you only want to discuss ICANN you can use ICANN words. The = question in Sao Paulo, IGF and "beyond" is: do Govs and Telcos want to = discuss ICANN or the internet or more (the whole digital system, the = digisphere). My review of all materials to date shows no indication of desire to = discuss=20 beyond the "ICANN" VGN (as you refer to it) and on direct related = matters of its governance. /John Disclaimer: My views alone. From nobody Fri Feb 28 11:09:19 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE5631A0238 for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:09:16 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.531 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.531 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lDJCu7PsioCY for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:09:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A1101A019B for ; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:09:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=vgnic.org; s=default; h=Content-Type:Mime-Version:References:In-Reply-To:Cc:Subject:From:To:Date; bh=CH0i/z5O81hYrj/wQ5pLrIkG7TxuhXAZU2ZXXOcBXMo=; b=Fn+1mKIxIvvc99NvJbUCXGgLl0eR1ab9WI5QD/zk9nrQahm1MeDq1HN4HkR4Oxz9WCPY1K/YR/g7l+tzyGBQyW03vccXDK9hI8PqhRytp87l5DbEAOqXDsuPWP0Pw5cG3rxVdkX9KD6z8V/jm0/Crf/bs0fKbOiS7TIBVJKMSYw=; Received: from 169.69.176.95.rev.sfr.net ([95.176.69.169]:50903 helo=Morfin-PC.vgnic.org) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WJSo5-0002br-Gw; Fri, 28 Feb 2014 11:09:13 -0800 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 20:09:02 +0100 To: John Curran ,Jefsey From: Elisabeth Blanconil In-Reply-To: <57877C60-D9E6-4287-8E99-834E88D49AF3@istaff.org> References: <50BEA799-0981-4F50-AE9E-A6A2A7359946@gmail.com> <03673.114022605581000511@us-mta-7.us.mimecast.lan> <20140227151201.AE06D213694@smtp2.arin.net> <71C588C8-5121-4C5D-B220-8D350ED5CE50@istaff.org> <20140228170206.C0E0D213692@smtp2.arin.net> <57877C60-D9E6-4287-8E99-834E88D49AF3@istaff.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - vgnic.org X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: info+vgnic.org/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/lZG3m90TpsvsUua0Wtz28aDLdUk Cc: "iucg@ietf.org" Subject: Re: [iucg] [discuss] Conference: ICANN and Global Internet Governance: The Road to Sao Paulo, and Beyond, Singapore 21 March 2014 X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Feb 2014 19:09:17 -0000 At 19:40 28/02/2014, John Curran wrote: > > If you want to address the Internet Governance issue, you need to > use IG terms. If you only want to discuss ICANN you can use ICANN > words. The question in Sao Paulo, IGF and "beyond" is: do Govs and > Telcos want to discuss ICANN or the internet or more (the whole > digital system, the digisphere). > >My review of all materials to date shows no indication of desire to >discuss beyond the "ICANN" VGN (as you refer to it) and on direct >related matters of its governance. That is correct on the US/ICANNers side! I decidedly believe this is NOT the case on the Govs side. I definitely know that this not the case on some business sides. Not to say among some CS groups. Obviously you have your evaluation, and I have mine. This is why we want to check it through the HomeRoot experimentation. It will tell us how many people, corporations and Govs could use it. Or if we are wrong. I am really free as you say. I do not belong to the "ICANN community" for a while. And I am not bound to their jargon. However, I am a techie. The HomeRoot project is to rationalize, simplify, support end users. All we know is that there is a possibility to save M$ 77 per year, in leaving M$ 2 to ICANN. Cheers! Hebe