From nobody Fri May 9 05:58:52 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A5F01A029E for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 05:58:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 4.332 X-Spam-Level: **** X-Spam-Status: No, score=4.332 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_99=3.5, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, MISSING_MID=0.497] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0o6sFUxvqaBB for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 05:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from host.presenceweb.org (host.presenceweb.org [67.222.106.46]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E2711A029D for ; Fri, 9 May 2014 05:58:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 231.74.14.81.rev.sfr.net ([81.14.74.231]:19497 helo=MORFIN-PC.mail.jefsey.com) by host.presenceweb.org with esmtpa (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WikNw-0003Ra-HZ; Fri, 09 May 2014 05:58:44 -0700 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 14:58:39 +0200 To: "Ianatransition@Icann.Org" From: Jefsey Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_560416540==.ALT" X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - host.presenceweb.org X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - ietf.org X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - jefsey.com X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: host.presenceweb.org: authenticated_id: jefsey+jefsey.com/only user confirmed/virtual account not confirmed X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/u8TDESHEOPzR-ZuuA0t1IyDU-z0 Cc: "comptoir@cafedu.com" , "internetgovtech@iab.org" , "discuss@1net.org List" , "iucg@ietf.org" , ga@vgnso.org Subject: [iucg] The reason why X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 May 2014 12:58:51 -0000 --=====================_560416540==.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "By now, most people know who Google is and what Google does. Google serves billions of online users in this country and around the world … With little or no revenue from its users, Google still manages to turn a healthy profit by selling advertisements within its products that rely in substantial part on users' personal identification information … in this model, the users are the real product. " http://www.scribd.com/doc/189329787/Google-Privacy-Policy-Ruling This explains why we do not want to be subject, through an US incorporated structure, to a Law which considers us as edge providers' products. We consider ourselves as the independent users of a common resource we co-organize through our VGNs and we pay twice: (1) as an ISP subscriber and (2) as a tax payer having to compensate for the Google's tax deductions. We demand our Governements to protect us from this legal creep, and our engineers to technically defend us from it. We therefore cannot adhere to a Sao Paulo document which reserves network neutrality for further discussions. We certainly are strangled right now, but we are too many to die. jfc morfin fsp4.net, bootstrapper --=====================_560416540==.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit "By now, most people know who Google is and what Google does. Google serves billions of online users in this country and around the world …  With little or no revenue from its users, Google still manages to turn a healthy profit by selling advertisements within its products that rely in substantial part on users’ personal identification information … in this model, the users are the real product. "

http://www.scribd.com/doc/189329787/Google-Privacy-Policy-Ruling

This explains why we do not want to be subject, through an US incorporated structure, to a Law which considers us as edge providers' products. We consider ourselves as the independent users of a common resource we co-organize through our VGNs and we pay twice: (1) as an ISP subscriber and (2) as a tax payer having to compensate for the Google's tax deductions.

We demand our Governements to protect us from this legal creep, and our engineers to technically defend us from it. We therefore cannot adhere to a Sao Paulo document which reserves network neutrality for further discussions. We certainly are strangled right now, but we are too many to die.

jfc morfin
fsp4.net, bootstrapper --=====================_560416540==.ALT-- From nobody Sun May 11 05:07:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: iucg@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000011A023C for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 05:07:05 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.373 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.373 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HELO_EQ_IT=0.635, HOST_EQ_IT=1.245, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.651, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9KXSJnW0a66c for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 05:07:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wmail.tana.it (wmail.tana.it [62.94.243.226]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E33461A022A for ; Sun, 11 May 2014 05:07:03 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=tana.it; s=beta; t=1399810017; bh=YOJXI+71jPCONzclSN/xKvS0NkuIc7axGaA9SAZzObY=; l=1063; h=Date:From:To:References:In-Reply-To; b=Z8Q9Plib4CKkQYUs8wDHG5i6YuXbPXH0ncyUkWaVlrhG8XXyCqNQGX4KMXg01WY/w 5C2ezwonWJ7F3XTdwamljLdmJqJzcWyeTUpNcvRxABbN1+ZXUTV9SHsNkvdquKHdHz SS+KdWKedZuVzwTddbVUtsP8dCcQkdx5fLuZB49g= Authentication-Results: tana.it; auth=pass (details omitted) Received: from [172.25.197.88] (pcale.tana [172.25.197.88]) (AUTH: CRAM-MD5 uXDGrn@SYT0/k) by wmail.tana.it with ESMTPA; Sun, 11 May 2014 14:06:57 +0200 id 00000000005DC03F.00000000536F67E1.000064E9 Message-ID: <536F67E1.8080905@tana.it> Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 14:06:57 +0200 From: Alessandro Vesely User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Icedove/24.4.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: iucg@ietf.org References: <20140509125852.ACFFF1A0297@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140509125852.ACFFF1A0297@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Enigmail-Version: 1.6 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/iucg/D1dz78g6wr5jS8T1MturDfv7mIo Subject: Re: [iucg] The reason why X-BeenThere: iucg@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: internet users contributing group List-Id: internet users contributing group List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 May 2014 12:07:06 -0000 On Fri 09/May/2014 14:58:39 +0200 Jfc Morfin wrote: > "By now, most people know who Google is and what Google does. Google > serves billions of online users in this country and around the world > … With little or no revenue from its users, Google still manages to > turn a healthy profit by selling advertisements within its products > that rely in substantial part on users’ personal identification > information … *in this model, the users are the real product.* " > > http://www.scribd.com/doc/189329787/Google-Privacy-Policy-Ruling Much the same critique of being slave drivers can be moved to TV and radios. What is baffling is that such vital functions, the planetary databanks[1], have to hinge on advertising. Sure there must be a better economic model for the information age... Ale -- [1]: From "Meet Dave" (Appelez-moi Dave): -Yes. I tapped into their central planetary databank, named "Google". -What a frivolous name for such a vital function. -Well, if you prefer, there's another called "Yahoo!". -Baffling.