From bulletin@staffadministrator.com Wed Dec 1 03:33:31 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01923; Wed, 1 Dec 2004 03:33:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from [206.166.205.65] (helo=CUSTOM) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CZQ0o-0002E1-41; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 03:39:00 -0500 Received: from ([166.29.175.173]) by CUSTOM id <6197643-92594>; Wed, 01 Dec 2004 02:33:36 -0600 Message-ID: <43hkzi9-0-o-l@cv4kyxenw> From: "Administrator" To: ippm-admin@ietf.org Subject: ADV: Staff Announcement Date: Wed, 01 Dec 04 02:33:36 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.52f) Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="BFF_19F5_E4" X-Spam-Score: 25.0 (+++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --BFF_19F5_E4 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attention All Nonprofit Organizations: Members and Staff You Must Respond By 5 P.M. Thursday, December 2, 2004. Through a special arrangement, Avtech Direct is offering a limited allotment of BRAND NEW, top of-the-line, name-brand desktop computers at more than 50% off MSRP to all Nonprofit Members and Staff who respond to this message before 5 P.M., Thursday, December 2, 2004. All desktop computers are brand-new packed in their original boxes, and come with a full manufacturer's warranty plus a 100% satisfaction guarantee. 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Thursday, December 2, 2004 Visit our website at http://www.avtechcomputers.com If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, please go to http://www.avtechcomputers.com/announcements.asp Avtech Direct 22647 Ventura Blvd. Suite 374 Woodland Hills, CA 91364 --BFF_19F5_E4-- From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Wed Dec 15 15:03:22 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA03612 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 15:03:22 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBFJuWvL055285; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:56:32 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBFJuUaU055234; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:56:30 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from cz.mit.edu (CARTER-ZIMMERMAN.MIT.EDU [18.18.3.197]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBFJuNou055186 for ; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 11:56:24 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by cz.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 8042) id 1F160E0063; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:57:01 -0500 (EST) To: ietf-kink@vpnc.org Cc: hartmans-ietf@mit.edu Subject: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 From: Sam Hartman Date: Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:57:00 -0500 Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Hi. Recently, Steve Bellovin resigned from the IESG and I replaced him as a security AD. I happen to be the AD responsible for this working group. I'm soliciting comments to determine whether there is sufficient interest to finish the KINK work. We need to show that we have an active editor for the core document, have active reviewers and have someone interested in implementing. Comments should be sent to the list or to me individually by 2005-01-06. Why this message? Where is Kink now? After taking over the working group from Steve, I reviewed the document and found a number of problems (generally described below). I contacted the chairs; they believe that going forward with the work is a good idea if we have sufficient interest. We have not heard from the current document editor. If you are interested in acting as an editor, reviewer or implementer please let us know. If you are interested in reviewing let us know what your experience is. Experience with Kerberos (particularly draft-ietf-krb-wg-kerberos-crypto-xx or draft-ietf-krb-wg-kerberos-clarifications-xx), IPsec (particularly 2401bis or IKEv1) greatly appreciated. You should also indicate whether you believe the work is still valuable: willingness to help with an effort does not always imply that the effort in question is the right direction. I hope that there is sufficient interest to go forward. If there is, I will commit to doing my job as an AD responsibily and efficiently. Here's a general overview of my concerns. Another reviewer from the Kerberos working group also found similar issues. ---------------------------------------- Hi. I just got done doing a quick read through of the kink draft. My goal was to figure out if the draft was ready to go back to the IESG. My initial conclusion is that there are several issues the working group would need to resolve before the draft could be considered. The IANA considerations section needs work. IT sounds like the current text wants to define the KINK payloads but doesn't actually register them because there is no registry to put them in. I don't think that will be acceptable to IANA. IT may be that you need to create and populate the appropriate registry to make forward progress. It actually looks like the registry has been created recently, so you might just need to register your entries. The security section needs some additional work; I can write up comments on that. I do want to insist on better conformance to id-nits before the document is considered. The particular complaint I have is that the draft does not have consistent page breaks; that makes it hard to print. A potential reviewer pointed to this and indicated that conformance to id-nits made the job of reviewing drafts easier. My own experience agrees; page numbers are useful for citations and for searching. Please make sure that the document complies with id-nits including modern IPR disclosures, appropriately numbered sections, etc before resubmitting. Unfortunately, there is a deeper issue. Kink and Kerberos have drifted apart. The IESG has approved a new crypto framework for Kerberos and a new version of the base protocol. Here are some ways in which kink does not fit modern Kerberos: * Kink assumes that Kerberos EncryptedData can be decomposed and the integrity protection removed * Kink requires that Kerberos has integrity protected errors. The current and past versions of Kerberos do not support this feature although the working group is specifying a version that will support this behavior. * The Kink description of how to verify a checksum assumes that Kerberos checksums are deterministic; this is not strictly required. * Descriptions of how to deal with Kerberos crypto operations should be written in terms of the crypto framework document. * The key derivation seems inconsistent with the crypto framework document. * Usage of kink should specify the key usage numbers for kerberos encryption. I would consider it important to fix these problems even if it were possible to treat KINK as a protocol referencing an old version of Kerberos. However KINK needs to support the new crypto framework in order to support AES which is the current mandatory to implement encryption type for Kerberos. I will not bring a document to the IESG that only supports DES. I'm also concerned that KINK and IPsec have drifted as well. The current document discusses parts of the SPD that seem like they belong more in the PAD. There may be other realignments required. The text discussing U2U Kerberos seems broken. It seems like the server tells the client what principal to authenticate to, but this principal is not properly authorized. --Sam From notices@staffadministrator.com Wed Dec 15 22:22:26 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA26881; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:22:26 -0500 (EST) Received: from host50.foretec.com ([65.246.255.50] helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CemM6-0004Fc-7U; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:31:07 -0500 Received: from user-0c991tr.cable.mindspring.com ([24.148.135.187]) by mx2.foretec.com with smtp (Exim 4.24) id 1CemDj-0006sp-50; Wed, 15 Dec 2004 22:22:27 -0500 Received: from a4.377x.com (HELO rdqj58) [170.11.232.19] by user-0c991tr.cable.mindspring.com with ESMTP id 2CAB8DDF38B; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 02:23:30 -0100 Message-ID: From: "Administrator" To: ietf-outbound.05@ietf.org Subject: ADV: Staff Announcement Date: Thu, 16 Dec 04 02:23:30 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="D5B936EC_5" X-Spam-Score: 30.4 (++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --D5B936EC_5 Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attention All Nonprofit Organizations: Members and Staff You Must Respond By 5 P.M. Friday, December 17, 2004. Through a special arrangement, Avtech Direct is offering a limited allotment of BRAND NEW, top of-the-line, name-brand desktop computers at more than 50% off MSRP to all Nonprofit Members and Staff who respond to this message before 5 P.M., Friday, December 17, 2004. All desktop computers are brand-new packed in their original boxes, and come with a full manufacturer's warranty plus a 100% satisfaction guarantee. These professional grade Desktops are fully equipped with 2005 next generation technology, making these the best performing computers money can buy. Avtech Direct is offering these feature rich, top performing Desktops with the latest technology at an amazing price to all who call: 1-800-795-8466 by 5 P.M. Friday, December 17, 2004 The fast and powerful AT-2800 series Desktop features: * Intel 2.0Ghz Processor for amazing speed and performance * 128MB DDR RAM, -- Upgradeable to 1024 * 20 GB UDMA Hard Drive, -- Upgradeable to 80 GB * 52X CD-Rom Drive, -- Upgradeable to DVD/CDRW * Next Generation 2005 Technology * Premium video and sound -- For enhanced colors and graphics * Full Connectivity with Fax modem/Lan/USB 2.0 * Soft Touch Keyboard and scroll mouse * Internet Ready * Network Ready * 1 Year parts and labor warranty * Priority customer service and tech support MSRP $499 ........................................ Your Cost $257 How to qualify: 1. You must be a Member, Staff or Associate of a Nonprofit. 2. All desktop computers will be available on a first come first serve basis. 3. You must call 1-800-795-8466 by 5 P.M. Friday, December 17, 2004. and we will hold the desktops you request on will call. 4. You are not obligated in any way. 5. 100% Satisfaction Guaranteed. 6. Ask for Department C. Call Avtech Direct 1-800-795-8466 before 5 P.M. Friday, December 17, 2004 Visit our website at http://www.avtechcomputers.com If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, please go to http://www.avtechcomputers.com/announcements.asp Avtech Direct 22647 Ventura Blvd. Suite 374 Woodland Hills, CA 91364 --D5B936EC_5-- From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Thu Dec 16 21:23:44 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA12277 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 21:23:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH2HbuL073725; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBH2Hb3I073724; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:17:37 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from nasten.nanohz.org (usen-220x218x5x242.ap-US00.usen.ad.jp [220.218.5.242]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH2Haci073717 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 18:17:37 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from kamada@nanohz.org) Received: from nasten.nanohz.org (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by nasten.nanohz.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD2711 for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:17:42 +0900 (JST) Received: from mitana.nanohz.org ([203.178.156.249]) by nasten.nanohz.org (smtpsugar 1.1) with ESMTPA id 1OYYqi; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:17:42 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:17:50 +0900 Message-ID: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> From: "KAMADA Ken'ichi" To: ietf-kink@vpnc.org Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.12.0 (Your Wildest Dreams-pre) SEMI/1.14.6 (Maruoka) FLIM/1.14.7 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Sanj=F2?=) APEL/10.6 Emacs/21.3.50 (i386-unknown-netbsdelf2.0G) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.6 - "Maruoka") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: [Reposting because my previous post doesn't have appeared on the list within 24 hours.] At Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:57:00 -0500, Sam Hartman wrote: > > I'm soliciting comments to determine whether there is sufficient > interest to finish the KINK work. Hi, I'm much interested in KINK and implementing it for *BSD and Linux as a member of racoon2 project. A prototype implementation (with pre-alpha quality) will be released in this year. I think the work is still valuable (and also willing to continue to implement it), because I think KINK is suitable for well managed environments which have a lot of devices with limited computational power. When this work is decided to go forward, I will commit my experiences in implementing KINK to revising the draft. -- KAMADA Ken'ichi From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Thu Dec 16 22:30:30 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA16961 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:30:30 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH3PKYp081671; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:25:20 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBH3PKKD081670; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:25:20 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from sj-iport-3.cisco.com (sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com [171.71.176.72]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH3PJPC081655 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:25:19 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from mat@cisco.com) Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 16 Dec 2004 20:32:19 +0000 X-BrightmailFiltered: true X-Brightmail-Tracker: AAAAAA== Received: from imail.cisco.com (imail.cisco.com [128.107.200.91]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id iBH3PBMI016829; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:25:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from thomasm-lnx.cisco.com (thomasm-lnx.cisco.com [171.71.96.50]) by imail.cisco.com (8.12.11/8.12.10) with ESMTP id iBH3No8i030386; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:23:50 -0800 Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 From: Michael Thomas To: "KAMADA Ken'ichi" Cc: ietf-kink@vpnc.org In-Reply-To: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> References: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; micalg=pgp-sha1; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; boundary="=-aM0qQYlSY1AQFX3S4Jnl" Organization: Cisco Systems Message-Id: <1103253916.13011.4.camel@thomasm-lnx.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.4.6 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800 IIM-SIG: v:"1"; h:"imail.cisco.com"; d:"cisco.com"; z:"home"; m:"krs"; t:"1103253830.557248"; x:"432200"; a:"rsa-sha1"; b:"nofws:1791"; e:"Iw=="; n:"sQYarK2E51MdcTiUqeif3F7cWdxIfoCiXhdfb9vD5ee/j0jXL15gbFxF2pXIw" "eAblu0N6XAgK7k+wrbr7bQDJaCDqOmzqpRUBjIRQAXQ7NzadpmR3pUL6wxaRU" "tW+c43sl9jC50Qg1sXHpPjt8Y+Y16ioyQAQAdSunM4YhevURc="; s:"N4bcEod2v3dx+h0iew23Rs56Dernp1qnL1aHzr7/w/i9vKvfM/X2vUmnSq2yf" "BjFGzGaquAH9bH2ewphBDYB61OKCg8kJzg1Ius0ApX+Cvm/18rbeEAOtRa7gT" "/njPbLjAdN4xvpEokSmUG3VXueKMGh7AD9CXfvS+gLn2z1+kM="; c:"Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06"; c:"From: Michael Thomas "; c:"Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:25:16 -0800" IIM-VERIFY: s:"y"; v:"y"; r:"60"; h:"imail.cisco.com"; c:"message from imail.cisco.com verified; " Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: --=-aM0qQYlSY1AQFX3S4Jnl Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ken'ichi-san,=20 I've been very busy lately on other things and haven't had a chance to digest Sam's comments very well, but some help for KINK to move it forward would be=20 appreciated. If there's really interest, I'm willing to do my part to finalize KINK. Mike On Thu, 2004-12-16 at 18:17, KAMADA Ken'ichi wrote: > [Reposting because my previous post doesn't have appeared on the list > within 24 hours.] >=20 > At Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:57:00 -0500, > Sam Hartman wrote: > >=20 > > I'm soliciting comments to determine whether there is sufficient > > interest to finish the KINK work. >=20 > Hi, I'm much interested in KINK and implementing it for *BSD and Linux > as a member of racoon2 project. A prototype implementation (with > pre-alpha quality) will be released in this year. >=20 > I think the work is still valuable (and also willing to continue to > implement it), because I think KINK is suitable for well managed > environments which have a lot of devices with limited computational > power. >=20 > When this work is decided to go forward, I will commit my experiences > in implementing KINK to revising the draft. --=-aM0qQYlSY1AQFX3S4Jnl Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: This is a digitally signed message part -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iQCVAwUAQcJRnLMsDAj/Eq++AQImBwP9GMFvw9tV7MLwP44xeaXRYH0WH5wdnMPG BM53wf60THf/wG4wlDgYnMTtOhrBePrOcd+PLDfT13DfloPjB9aQgiu0us1xsIeZ Op7tl78lVsVIdCi0AfCxBya2Ak+vJi+4T+AdcVVwJRQcGJgZYa4JPjw6nX7gfLF7 uzLYECcPuLM= =W/TJ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-aM0qQYlSY1AQFX3S4Jnl-- From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Thu Dec 16 22:57:47 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA18781 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 22:57:47 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH3tdBQ099456; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:55:39 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBH3tdMn099455; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:55:39 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from march.taca.jp (vbox.nezu.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.195]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH3tcGQ098981 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 19:55:38 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nov@tahi.org) Received: from localhost (vbox.nezu.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.195]) by march.taca.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 007DD1FB7D for ; Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:55:22 +0900 (JST) Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:55:21 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20041217.125521.10404205.nov@tahi.org> To: ietf-kink@vpnc.org Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 From: Nobuo OKABE In-Reply-To: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> References: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI Some people outside IETF are also interested in KINK. http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/art034.html So I believe KINK is important for industrial area where there are a lot of low-end devices mentioned by Kamada-san. Thanks, From: "KAMADA Ken'ichi" Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:17:50 +0900 > > [Reposting because my previous post doesn't have appeared on the list > within 24 hours.] > > At Wed, 15 Dec 2004 14:57:00 -0500, > Sam Hartman wrote: > > > > I'm soliciting comments to determine whether there is sufficient > > interest to finish the KINK work. > > Hi, I'm much interested in KINK and implementing it for *BSD and Linux > as a member of racoon2 project. A prototype implementation (with > pre-alpha quality) will be released in this year. > > I think the work is still valuable (and also willing to continue to > implement it), because I think KINK is suitable for well managed > environments which have a lot of devices with limited computational > power. > > When this work is decided to go forward, I will commit my experiences > in implementing KINK to revising the draft. ----- nobuo From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Thu Dec 16 23:29:33 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id XAA20650 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:29:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH4PxBu014274; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:25:59 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBH4Pxvu014273; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:25:59 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from biscayne-one-station.mit.edu (BISCAYNE-ONE-STATION.MIT.EDU [18.7.7.80]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBH4PwKI014267 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 20:25:58 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from raeburn@MIT.EDU) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by biscayne-one-station.mit.edu (8.12.4/8.9.2) with ESMTP id iBH4Q3kn029529 for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:26:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from [18.101.0.226] ([18.101.0.226]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as raeburn@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.12.4/8.12.4) with ESMTP id iBH4PwmM010324 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:26:02 -0500 (EST) Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v619) In-Reply-To: <20041217.125521.10404205.nov@tahi.org> References: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> <20041217.125521.10404205.nov@tahi.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Message-Id: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Ken Raeburn Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 Date: Thu, 16 Dec 2004 23:25:56 -0500 To: ietf-kink@vpnc.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.619) X-Spam-Score: -4.9 X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.42 Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit On Dec 16, 2004, at 22:55, Nobuo OKABE wrote: > FYI > > Some people outside IETF are also interested in KINK. > > http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/art034.html > > So I believe KINK is important for industrial area > where there are a lot of low-end devices > mentioned by Kamada-san. Thanks for that pointer, I hadn't seen that before. Looks like they're recommending Kerberos as one of their options, though their complaints about it include: still uses DES (being addressed); no role-based authorization; hard to set up and administer. > From: "KAMADA Ken'ichi" > Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 > Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 11:17:50 +0900 >> When this work is decided to go forward, I will commit my experiences >> in implementing KINK to revising the draft. That's great, thank you! I also would like to see this work happen, but coming from the Kerberos side and not the IPsec world, I don't think I can be of the greatest help in implementing it. I was trying to follow the WG discussions for a while, but as the general tendency seemed to be to explain some Kerberos bits and assume knowledge of IPsec, I got a bit lost... I'm happy to help with the Kerberos aspects of the spec, though, and any problems with use of the MIT implementation, and I've started looking over the current draft again myself. Ken From bulletin@staffadministrator.com Wed Dec 29 08:16:23 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA06566; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:16:23 -0500 (EST) Received: from c68.190.119.0.mad.wi.charter.com ([68.190.119.0]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cjdrb-0006Rk-Dk; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:27:55 -0500 Received: from 8cdh.rpyy.org ([133.98.111.142]) by c68.190.119.0.mad.wi.charter.com for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 10:19:08 -0300 Message-ID: <8-6-r3$q97yt8q965317z-0-lb$86mq@66k5d> From: "Administrator" To: ietf-outbound.05@ietf.org Subject: ADV: Staff Announcement Date: Wed, 29 Dec 04 10:19:08 GMT X-Priority: 1 X-MSMail-Priority: High X-Mailer: The Bat! (v1.52f) Business MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="9C01_AA07.EE6E" X-Spam-Score: 31.0 (+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++) X-Spam-Flag: YES X-Scan-Signature: d8ae4fd88fcaf47c1a71c804d04f413d This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --9C01_AA07.EE6E Content-Type: text/plain Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Attention All Nonprofit Organizations: Members and Staff. You Must Respond By 5 P.M. Thursday, December 30, 2004. Through a special arrangement, Avtech Direct is offering a limited allotment of BRAND NEW, top of-the-line, name-brand desktop computers at more than 50% off MSRP to all Nonprofit Members and Staff who respond to this message before 5 P.M., Thursday, December 30, 2004. All desktop computers are brand-new packed in their original boxes, and come with a full manufacturer's warranty plus a 100% satisfaction guarantee. 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Thursday, December 30, 2004 Visit our website at http://www.avtechcomputers.com If you wish to unsubscribe from this list, please go to http://www.avtechcomputers.com/announcements.asp Avtech Direct 22647 Ventura Blvd. Suite 374 Woodland Hills, CA 91364 --9C01_AA07.EE6E-- From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Wed Dec 29 12:36:08 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA26656 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:36:07 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBTHSU5R038973; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:28:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBTHSUtn038972; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:28:30 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from luminous.mit.edu (LUMINOUS.MIT.EDU [18.101.1.61]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBTHSUHQ038940 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:28:30 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from hartmans@mit.edu) Received: by luminous.mit.edu (Postfix, from userid 1000) id A486B7682D; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 12:27:06 -0500 (EST) To: ietf-kink@vpnc.org Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 References: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> <20041217.125521.10404205.nov@tahi.org> From: Sam Hartman Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:08:36 -0500 In-Reply-To: <20041217.125521.10404205.nov@tahi.org> (Nobuo OKABE's message of "Fri, 17 Dec 2004 12:55:21 +0900 (JST)") Message-ID: User-Agent: Gnus/5.1006 (Gnus v5.10.6) Emacs/21.3 (gnu/linux) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii MIME-Version: 1.0 Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: >>>>> "Nobuo" == Nobuo OKABE writes: Nobuo> FYI Nobuo> Some people outside IETF are also interested in KINK. Nobuo> http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/art034.html Nobuo> So I believe KINK is important for industrial area where Nobuo> there are a lot of low-end devices mentioned by Kamada-san. Sure, but if we cannot get enough people within the IETF to be interested then we cannot do adequate review and so we will not do the work. If you have contacts in any of these areas and can convince people to join this working group, rewiev specs, etc, then that would be greatly appreciated. People don't need to attend meetings to review drafts. --Sam From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Thu Dec 30 00:19:27 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA26234 for ; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:19:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBU5Dr5c012460; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:13:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBU5DrIR012459; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:13:53 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from march.taca.jp (vbox.nezu.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.195]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBU5DqAE012057 for ; Wed, 29 Dec 2004 21:13:53 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from nov@tahi.org) Received: from localhost (vbox.nezu.wide.ad.jp [203.178.142.195]) by march.taca.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 67FC21FB7D; Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:13:34 +0900 (JST) Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 14:13:34 +0900 (JST) Message-Id: <20041230.141334.08619128.nov@tahi.org> To: hartmans-ietf@mit.edu Cc: ietf-kink@vpnc.org Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 From: Nobuo OKABE In-Reply-To: References: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> <20041217.125521.10404205.nov@tahi.org> X-Mailer: Mew version 4.1 on Emacs 20.7 / Mule 4.0 (HANANOEN) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Sam Hartman Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:08:36 -0500 > Nobuo> FYI > Nobuo> Some people outside IETF are also interested in KINK. > Nobuo> http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/art034.html > Nobuo> So I believe KINK is important for industrial area where > Nobuo> there are a lot of low-end devices mentioned by Kamada-san. > > Sure, but if we cannot get enough people within the IETF to be > interested then we cannot do adequate review and so we will not do the > work. > If you have contacts in any of these areas and can convince people to > join this working group, rewiev specs, etc, then that would be greatly > appreciated. > People don't need to attend meetings to review drafts. The followings are what we can do for the WG now: 1) Our group will contribute this WG because we are also working for those area (e.g. building, factory, plants) and implementing KINK. We will show the details later. # FYI: Kamada-san is a member of our group. 2) I don't have a concrete connection with the author of the above URL. However, I will contact him anyhow....I'm not sure the result though.... ----- nobuo From owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Fri Dec 31 11:20:40 2004 Received: from above.proper.com (above.proper.com [208.184.76.39]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08298 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 2004 11:20:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from above.proper.com (localhost.vpnc.org [127.0.0.1]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBVGDT8j039185; Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:13:29 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org) Received: (from majordom@localhost) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9/Submit) id iBVGDTBv039184; Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:13:29 -0800 (PST) X-Authentication-Warning: above.proper.com: majordom set sender to owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org using -f Received: from shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp [202.249.10.124]) by above.proper.com (8.12.11/8.12.9) with ESMTP id iBVGDN4p039154 for ; Fri, 31 Dec 2004 08:13:28 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from inoue@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp) Received: from miomio2 (PPP258.air128.dti.ne.jp [210.170.213.26]) by shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp (Postfix) with ESMTP id 414A215218; Sat, 1 Jan 2005 01:13:09 +0900 (JST) Date: Sat, 01 Jan 2005 01:13:10 +0900 From: Atsushi Inoue Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 To: hartmans-ietf@mit.edu, Nobuo OKABE Cc: ietf-kink@vpnc.org Reply-To: inoue@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp In-Reply-To: <20041230.141334.08619128.nov@tahi.org> References: <20041217111750OA%kamada@nanohz.org> <20041217.125521.10404205.nov@tahi.org> <20041230.141334.08619128.nov@tahi.org> X-Mailer: Datula version 1.52.01 for Windows Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-2022-JP Message-Id: <20041231161309.414A215218@shuttle.wide.toshiba.co.jp> Sender: owner-ietf-kink@mail.vpnc.org Precedence: bulk List-Archive: List-Unsubscribe: List-ID: Nobuo OKABEさんの<20041230.141334.08619128.nov@tahi.org>から >From: Sam Hartman >Subject: Re: Sufficient Energy to finish KINK--comments by 2005-01-06 >Date: Fri, 17 Dec 2004 18:08:36 -0500 > >> Nobuo> FYI >> Nobuo> Some people outside IETF are also interested in KINK. >> Nobuo> http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/art034.html >> Nobuo> So I believe KINK is important for industrial area where >> Nobuo> there are a lot of low-end devices mentioned by Kamada-san. >> >> Sure, but if we cannot get enough people within the IETF to be >> interested then we cannot do adequate review and so we will not do the >> work. >> If you have contacts in any of these areas and can convince people to >> join this working group, rewiev specs, etc, then that would be greatly >> appreciated. >> People don't need to attend meetings to review drafts. > >The followings are what we can do for the WG now: > >1) Our group will contribute this WG > because we are also working for those area > (e.g. building, factory, plants) and implementing KINK. > We will show the details later. > # FYI: Kamada-san is a member of our group. > >2) I don't have a concrete connection with the author of the above URL. > However, I will contact him anyhow....I'm not sure the result though.... > >----- nobuo We have two groups in WIDE project which have interest in standardization of KINK. One is TACA-WG (which Okabe-san mentioned above), who is developing security framework for facility networks. These facility network consists of huge number of low-capability (such as 8bit MPU) nodes. So, we need to make a scheme which can work not using public key cryptography. That's the reason why KINK is the key technical element in this work. TACA-WG has already made rough idea of the security framework and now in the prototyping stage. Another group is IPSEC group, which is also known as the developer of racoon key management deamon in KAME IPv6 stack. This group is now implementing Racoon2, which supports both IKEv2 and KINK as IPSEC key management protocols. So, we have aready implemented KINK for this Racoon2 work (Kamada-san is the main contributor for KINK part of Racoon2). Because these two groups has experience on implementing and using KINK, we can call for reviewer of KINK draft in these groups. Also, we have aready itemize several issues in implementing KINK, we (maybe Kamada-san and some other guys) will write individual I-D on this implementation issue soon. I think this I-D will be a good start point for discussing how to do on KINK work. How about that ? -- Atsushi INOUE -- Atsushi Inoue mailto:inoue@isl.rdc.toshiba.co.jp