From nobody Sat May 2 06:12:22 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C72A93A1185 for ; Sat, 2 May 2020 06:12:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LeQdtv5LFOSV for ; Sat, 2 May 2020 06:12:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [62.232.206.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33D913A116A for ; Sat, 2 May 2020 06:12:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1588425136; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=6pEadRgQt1OEHeRTSkVcPKm1q0TMjMnNTFiDTA4m1UY=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=He1RLwN7J8/yENRcfQcf+NAAq535OKL8eu7V65jvJzGAgwTInWiYhP3W1Mqdlfw7FcUnrj nDGCsjzaCY2VTyIMH11nY+YXWhMpvq0r25bAfviQHp+9Vr66trGJyChP/8iihjo0OcPOfv 9J0++KsbXjRMyoriM0zB5Qy+iU+KQpA=; Received: from [192.168.0.8] (0546c907.skybroadband.com [5.70.201.7]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Sat, 2 May 2020 14:12:15 +0100 From: Alexey Melnikov To: Simon Josefsson Cc: kitten@ietf.org References: <158462386052.13384.7911173297625270492@ietfa.amsl.com> <1330abb0-f0ae-3399-0486-4d7f7ff63267@isode.com> <87tv20bkid.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> Autocrypt: addr=alexey.melnikov@isode.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFWQBiQBCADFmiucA1/FCqO+LUOm/Xf2+NpPuSbPcLAWd0x1K1V4F1WTPScSolQ/u0y8 faozrF3uQXZxInvmLJOALfOqm4lfg8CN2BqAxMrlCqka1Ku8UJ9A6kOGaZWlBKUmiIjVng9D 91k8MRare9dE5b0Yj33mUO/ifhC+np0H7CXpB6E2IzvAUkgWCPlXEVO6ffV1Xr+J/UeArqoF Fj1RoMN+Kc701e3GzKHpuryng66Jx9+k7daOSgWNF1zOU1JCJKIZ1uHIlzro1y0KtvWTwwM1 331q72HWESG0NatDnu1QotxxFHLDQFsHZ59A5yvIdyeZvjuEr9paorNVIk7Esg4THaljABEB AAG0K0FsZXhleSBNZWxuaWtvdiA8YWxleGV5Lm1lbG5pa292QGlzb2RlLmNvbT6JATkEEwEI ACMFAlWQBiQCGw8HCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBdp82zsCM7iDACB/4q EiLSBhpjDJ+pm1f6IXQvtTW3YGrca0kidZ0yX/qn30bkRtFsjXJVOspKENzBhZCI5bX/Si0I qKkR0DqnuJqchVzKXl25HfMvA2w2KRr8VFLFWMnCB4/jnaMWWQ4EV1MqbyFXl3m0LwZ1U4rd EQLvzPTNd8tqyy093rN53jTl0FmBAEHYzbUHsYB6wx8gqJBFkIGEgPHftZboJ/8ywo983YBQ /8Brb8awV3PeonmHc7W9QMKoN37U9VLbXOvAZVDvJ4QI1P/P3Uad1tkkeyuCcluuPe2M7CjK HF8zQHYGSCz70NY+MhbfhgT5WMjPuW5ls+Q1yES257+lmRkx3eyT Message-ID: <727175a4-4ba0-c3ea-7e09-f21b0f589bf4@isode.com> Date: Sat, 2 May 2020 14:12:15 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 In-Reply-To: <87tv20bkid.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Language: en-US Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Fwd: I-D Action: draft-melnikov-scram-2fa-00.txt X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 02 May 2020 13:12:19 -0000 Hi Simon, On 03/04/2020 17:29, Simon Josefsson wrote: > Thanks for working on this. What we discovered with the OpenID/SAML > SASL mechanisms was that a major challenge was to resolve how to resume= > sessions in a SASLy way. To be more specific, the challenge is that a > lot of client applications (IMAP in particlar) expect to be able to ope= n > several sessions to the server. Having a user perform manual steps per= > session won't work, and from a quick look at your document, it looks > like this problem isn't resolve here either. What is needed is some wa= y > to perform the 2FA authentication once, and then be able to refer to > that authentication in a new SASL authentication step. With re-newed > energy and interest in this, I beliece we can do better now though. > Some ideas: > > 1) Specify how TLS resumption of a SASL authenticated session should > assume the same SASL authentication/authorization identity. I don't think this will fly, as TLS resumption is usually unaware of SASL state. At least this is how it is commonly implemented in Email clients or servers. > 2) Specify how EXTERNAL (or some new mechanism) is to be used to > "resume" an earlier 2FA authenticated SASL session. I don't think SASL EXTERNAL is a good fit here. I think David Cridland's CLIENTKEY is what you describe and I agree that we should pursue standardizing it. > 3) Describe how OAUTH could be used to achieve this. Right, on my to do list. If somebody would like to volunteer to co-edit with me, that would speed things up. > 4) Extend your proposal to generate a magic cookie after successful > authentication that can be provided instead of the 2FA code next time. Sure, I can add this. > The problem is not exactly how to do it: it is to describe one > well-agreed on method that all application implementers can follow, to > get interoperability. > > I believe it is a bad idea to implement a generic 2FA mechanism on top > of SCRAM, it will be too flexible with bad interop as a result. > Instead, implement specific 2FA methods so things become easily > implementable. Your document could be a SCRAM-OATH-TOTP rather than > SCRAM-2FA. OATH-HOTP/TOTP, U2F, FIDO2, etc each have different > behaviours that make it difficult to support in a generic protocol. With addition of SCRAM-SHA-256, SCRAM-SHA-512 and possibly SCRAM-SHA-3, I am worried about combinatorial explosion of names of SCRAM variants, that need to accommodate both new hash algorithms and 2FA methods. Maybe we should just settle on a small (or just 1) 2FA for now, but make it swappable for=C2=A0 something better in the future? Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Mon May 4 11:15:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C9C3C3A114A for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 11:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=samwhited.com header.b=DBhNC9eo; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=RPiaNkC6 Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fR3yynTXju-3 for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 11:14:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout3-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 55D7C3A1132 for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 11:14:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A6C4317 for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 14:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap34 ([10.202.2.84]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Mon, 04 May 2020 14:14:31 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=samwhited.com; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=fXRNB eQk2IxmuY8popiKOs202ObQume7iEY9lw4Z1ao=; b=DBhNC9eo1W6m6fGS5NKqP ryRQCXIMIAE/lEJZRnBMnxcjt49fp+IcWSTPY8JN+6tYEMh+MBZ578gPIVwJV8Aj DkUWLJwmhlDbGNMK73hB72cCny6ZkAP8XPLIv3Lqrq9Z14mJzQSa44GHyr+a53re p1Ps9D6OR9bIdk4qvbLhYBOhGQ8jgQlVyqHD90M352XOhlz2gI47lW/StrGFoNod AntIhb8mupabFBX85Tpd2NuUmieeWS6+/al6KwKeY2gedROaWzzyp2ZdtK1CDXEC axtis9Zi/RWnPHEs2/Bw5iiYU2KIndA8j0SyHmHQ08TkPRBHoKJtcz9qefFKxnCl g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=fXRNBeQk2IxmuY8popiKOs202ObQume7iEY9lw4Z1 ao=; b=RPiaNkC69Y1z9sIfeLST7Qq9A/oU7m+4BVC8VAYAkfs3bpp2bMn+MMM99 hMW7V6edV5gOgCzv0VBRYFCFunWmG5+EvTfJxd8CA16LYsKQp/CG04kwDn5X1ArN pUVbyttHPUwBjjiPDZ3XxJwj4eQ/nkJFgf8b51+m0wDkBRGMqiEUuWebFjbuPRBk qQRI/Hr4S6BTMC6gh2BjzY01Zn4cb8k6ZzoxJo9C07bAFR9M02DrhV+06/depCIp Qda/D+HXXcP27YKyubTNceQ6bLt8jCYa6ZFGfQGCcVxZL1yVTsTDUIrp7xiqFo9s 1xPE6Hd0TYkPfG1Xo5ckfP3Wk8+7g== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrjeeggdduudegucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfufgr mhcuhghhihhtvggufdcuoehsrghmsehsrghmfihhihhtvggurdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpeefuddukeekueetueelfeeguedvuedvffehvdevieffgeehhfejffdtveev uedvffenucffohhmrghinhepihgvthhfrdhorhhgnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptd enucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepshgrmhesshgrmhifhhhithgvugdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 36BAA1460061; Mon, 4 May 2020 14:14:30 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-351-g9981f4f-fmstable-20200421v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 14:14:09 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 18:15:00 -0000 Hi again all, I submitted this idea as a draft to the TLS working group. However, the draft ended up becoming SCRAM/TLS 1.3 specific and the TLS WG suggested that it might be a better fit for KITTEN, either as an update to RFC 5802, or as a new I-D. Would this WG be interested in either the draft document or starting an update to RFC 5802 if the TLS WG decides that the draft is outside of their wheelhouse? Thanks, Sam On Thu, Apr 30, 2020, at 16:02, Sam Whited wrote: > Hi all, > > I'm in need of a channel binding mechanism that works for TLS 1.3, but= > as far as I can tell there isn't one. I was thinking about defining a > mechanism using RFC 5705 (which is updated by RFC 8446 so it should > work on both TLS 1.2 with appropriate cipher suites and 1.3 in > general). > > Is anyone aware of work already being done in this area, and if I were= > to define a mechanism would it be a better fit for this working group > or for the tls WG? > > I know that exporters have some caveats around how to ensure > uniqueness across different sessions, so this would likely require a > great deal of expert review if it's a feasible mechanism at all and I > wasn't sure where the best place to get that review would be. > > =E2=80=94Sam > > Thanks, Sam > > _______________________________________________ > Kitten mailing list Kitten@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten > --=20 Sam Whited From nobody Mon May 4 11:50:37 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BC353A12A0 for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 11:50:36 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tOY_xHskSG-M for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 11:50:35 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [62.232.206.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8599E3A1326 for ; Mon, 4 May 2020 11:50:17 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1588618216; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=TlsO/xCI7g+k/3H5zcwhqgq7imJkHywSQp7QTbfIksU=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=OE9as/ALGAtOoyr4bCAcc0YKQ8t55rYuTRdG6r3CRZPyyHIVPiz3saimzMKdRgqKwFxM8X DOLFopGku/HL7QY5tdn1aQQPaHWTK4qXbcqwna3ZwCkQKdNzV5r7r+md78BGcmB7cJEvBo bkymivHsTp7hxfBr/FugVH6bHrc13TU=; Received: from [192.168.0.8] (0546c907.skybroadband.com [5.70.201.7]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Mon, 4 May 2020 19:50:16 +0100 To: Sam Whited References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> Cc: KITTEN Working Group From: Alexey Melnikov Autocrypt: addr=alexey.melnikov@isode.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFWQBiQBCADFmiucA1/FCqO+LUOm/Xf2+NpPuSbPcLAWd0x1K1V4F1WTPScSolQ/u0y8 faozrF3uQXZxInvmLJOALfOqm4lfg8CN2BqAxMrlCqka1Ku8UJ9A6kOGaZWlBKUmiIjVng9D 91k8MRare9dE5b0Yj33mUO/ifhC+np0H7CXpB6E2IzvAUkgWCPlXEVO6ffV1Xr+J/UeArqoF Fj1RoMN+Kc701e3GzKHpuryng66Jx9+k7daOSgWNF1zOU1JCJKIZ1uHIlzro1y0KtvWTwwM1 331q72HWESG0NatDnu1QotxxFHLDQFsHZ59A5yvIdyeZvjuEr9paorNVIk7Esg4THaljABEB AAG0K0FsZXhleSBNZWxuaWtvdiA8YWxleGV5Lm1lbG5pa292QGlzb2RlLmNvbT6JATkEEwEI ACMFAlWQBiQCGw8HCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBdp82zsCM7iDACB/4q EiLSBhpjDJ+pm1f6IXQvtTW3YGrca0kidZ0yX/qn30bkRtFsjXJVOspKENzBhZCI5bX/Si0I qKkR0DqnuJqchVzKXl25HfMvA2w2KRr8VFLFWMnCB4/jnaMWWQ4EV1MqbyFXl3m0LwZ1U4rd EQLvzPTNd8tqyy093rN53jTl0FmBAEHYzbUHsYB6wx8gqJBFkIGEgPHftZboJ/8ywo983YBQ /8Brb8awV3PeonmHc7W9QMKoN37U9VLbXOvAZVDvJ4QI1P/P3Uad1tkkeyuCcluuPe2M7CjK HF8zQHYGSCz70NY+MhbfhgT5WMjPuW5ls+Q1yES257+lmRkx3eyT Message-ID: <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> Date: Mon, 4 May 2020 19:50:15 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 In-Reply-To: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 04 May 2020 18:50:36 -0000 Hi Sam, On 04/05/2020 19:14, Sam Whited wrote: > Hi again all, > > I submitted this idea as a draft to the TLS working group. However, the > draft ended up becoming SCRAM/TLS 1.3 specific and the TLS WG suggested > that it might be a better fit for KITTEN, either as an update to RFC > 5802, or as a new I-D. > > Would this WG be interested in either the draft document or starting an > update to RFC 5802 if the TLS WG decides that the draft is outside of > their wheelhouse? I am happy to work on either one. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Tue May 5 13:56:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 857133A0AE0; Tue, 5 May 2020 13:56:08 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: kitten@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.129.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: kitten@ietf.org Message-ID: <158871216845.612.17834876005119086800@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 13:56:08 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] I-D Action: draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon-00.txt X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 20:56:12 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Authentication Technology Next Generation WG of the IETF. Title : A Simple Anonymous GSS-API Mechanism Author : Luke Howard Filename : draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon-00.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2020-05-04 Abstract: This document defines protocols, procedures and conventions for a Generic Security Service Application Program Interface (GSS-API) security mechanism that provides key agreement without authentication of either party. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Tue May 5 14:01:14 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 61E293A0AEC for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 14:01:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZxYEl_-5MOUm for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 14:01:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com [205.139.110.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 124B23A0AEA for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 14:01:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1588712469; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=A5XV6/nZo4kgTclfwMx0Q/a+3BK8zdgOh8o+hoidotg=; b=TvttUDb4A6j949OoO4R2DLvHV3AstauoOSUhq/c9jPhmDv4nI8mWE2JqDLUJ1KrqssEONO P7teKuOte9KPDqJKyjow9a2/xbk4fzNCgOe33sf0zbm7U17sQUWkpskLJpZJLwP2eDn0pV pXyMcICxZOUqQY5nyaqkcDtuvxgBkb8= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-230-9iUZKgHoPaKyENCtr2n0Fg-1; Tue, 05 May 2020 17:01:06 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 9iUZKgHoPaKyENCtr2n0Fg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx05.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B8466A6; Tue, 5 May 2020 21:01:02 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.23]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3F5A62928; Tue, 5 May 2020 21:01:01 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Nico Williams , Jeffrey Altman Cc: kitten@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20200426044120.GD18021@localhost> References: <5822327E-C113-447B-AAB8-34902F585566@padl.com> <0674f16b-742c-8e4b-ee56-7112242684ed@secure-endpoints.com> <20200426044120.GD18021@localhost> Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 17:00:57 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.15 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] SAnon kitten adoption X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 21:01:13 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Nico Williams writes: > On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:02:16AM -0400, Jeffrey Altman wrote: > >> SAnon will be implemented in Heimdal. I would be interested in seeing >> it adaopted by Kitten as a standards track document. > > Me too. Hearing no objections, seeing voices in favor, and an implementation for Heimdal, SAnon has been adopted for work in kitten and is now known as draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl6x1AkACgkQJTL5F2qV pEKw4RAAgkx9/cdJ04dwmn+kwv7xenjLvxp4dEPzd96L3w3xq3t1JaoWgPfFoCfH w2mX0ZPlhsSuCURlKkK3qHhoOR9DTUNEP9vNp068iS4HV/oUmq0iOQB92pK5n848 mbkz0CwgPKkC8vKsAfRYpcEJloyae5R0q15iFscaCXQ8Tc02AHcZcCrTFVeMKKVr 9f+x3C+ouOaV2512P/5+0qxxIoxEd3d/8HoonpIC0V8fj2UBt+9mj4dlc32BxAmV LDOECnWRssTFiFlbiPph/nOv8Hhy/4/519TsWBKM0ZTuz1swSSXzM52/GwInzudC VzlfJjxX3YLlTnmVzeMpYKpOj8WuSqZ/tZyWyau3grz5S0gVKsEXn8Ex9hTkcs/Z T6EIwyPy4tlsVudAF168o/u/YDRDqgX1zXxBP96us9smbq3WFkfTGkMBEtdyshhk aHHJitkRV23LYFCFzQHiyZAokmnCoZLcortXN/6FKdythU77rW6i4Erkkk5YpEzw Ru2RuE4TgZhLMwxaV3FdD9U1jfcbn2AW5COo1dcPJoZI5VpwmbsE6K0X2M857Ds4 DG4b9qsb0SCIWwoloONPjCfCV4VXMbmV17ff5rkK+t4DhYES5exygyTbzfs75R6C +12MGNnnnfdMLI6DKgPRCfffzg2Gv8ULWAKTYpVlJDbsWd8ucKU= =ss6E -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue May 5 15:26:28 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8567F3A0BF3 for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 15:26:11 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=secure-endpoints.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vkDRvckFFYj3 for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 15:26:10 -0700 (PDT) Received: from secure-endpoints.com (sequoia-grove.ad.secure-endpoints.com [208.125.0.235]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E37513A0BF0 for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 15:26:09 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/relaxed; d=secure-endpoints.com; s=MDaemon; t=1588717568; x=1589322368; i=jaltman@secure-endpoints.com; q=dns/txt; h=VBR-Info:Subject:To: Cc:References:From:Organization:Message-ID:Date:User-Agent: MIME-Version:In-Reply-To:Content-Type; bh=JIzUeRrsIPU7XovXXv2Q1c Z455NlmRpidRhqcsPJvso=; b=jfw2UgWzAFPqtH8ZUOzSxyVYnWCXf6oo9wLCtJ 5hLlNfArIGxtqDhwQxLHuwY3oZSAhKEDqIiWnhu4f5szJE9lxoRI8IuR6MFxHi+0 1MMKFQQsR6T087MP/1oZrpzjDfVNqnRQi3AjBBbkG7EMz26ryOojGPhZV8VrSgb0 pKJPA= X-MDAV-Result: clean X-MDAV-Processed: secure-endpoints.com, Tue, 05 May 2020 18:26:08 -0400 Received: from [IPv6:2604:2000:1741:8407:a5bc:ff2:b5bc:f1fb] by secure-endpoints.com (IPv6:2001:470:1f07:f77:28d9:68fb:855d:c2a5) (MDaemon PRO v20.0.0gm3) with ESMTPSA id md5001002453563.msg; Tue, 05 May 2020 18:26:07 -0400 VBR-Info: md=secure-endpoints.com; mc=all; mv=vbr.emailcertification.org; X-Spam-Processed: secure-endpoints.com, Tue, 05 May 2020 18:26:07 -0400 (not processed: message from trusted or authenticated source) X-MDRemoteIP: 2604:2000:1741:8407:a5bc:ff2:b5bc:f1fb X-MDHelo: [IPv6:2604:2000:1741:8407:a5bc:ff2:b5bc:f1fb] X-MDArrival-Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 18:26:07 -0400 X-MDOrigin-Country: United States, North America X-Authenticated-Sender: jaltman@secure-endpoints.com X-Return-Path: prvs=1394bb3430=jaltman@secure-endpoints.com X-Envelope-From: jaltman@secure-endpoints.com X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: kitten@ietf.org To: Robbie Harwood , Nico Williams Cc: kitten@ietf.org References: <5822327E-C113-447B-AAB8-34902F585566@padl.com> <0674f16b-742c-8e4b-ee56-7112242684ed@secure-endpoints.com> <20200426044120.GD18021@localhost> From: Jeffrey Altman Organization: Secure Endpoints Inc. Message-ID: Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 18:26:00 -0400 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 In-Reply-To: Content-Type: multipart/signed; protocol="application/pkcs7-signature"; micalg=sha-256; boundary="------------ms000208010108060606070705" X-MDCFSigsAdded: secure-endpoints.com Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] SAnon kitten adoption X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 22:26:12 -0000 This is a cryptographically signed message in MIME format. --------------ms000208010108060606070705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/5/2020 5:00 PM, Robbie Harwood wrote: > Nico Williams writes: >=20 >> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:02:16AM -0400, Jeffrey Altman wrote: >> >>> SAnon will be implemented in Heimdal. I would be interested in seein= g >>> it adaopted by Kitten as a standards track document. >> >> Me too. >=20 > Hearing no objections, seeing voices in favor, and an implementation fo= r > Heimdal, SAnon has been adopted for work in kitten and is now known as > draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon. Thank you Robbie. There is also an implementation as a mechanism plugin for MIT that works with RHEL7/8. 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--------------ms000208010108060606070705-- From nobody Tue May 5 15:44:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A03A43A0C09 for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 15:44:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mh-QfCToVGi4 for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 15:44:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D57493A0C07 for ; Tue, 5 May 2020 15:44:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 045MiOqJ025844 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 5 May 2020 18:44:27 -0400 Date: Tue, 5 May 2020 15:44:24 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Alexey Melnikov Cc: Sam Whited , KITTEN Working Group Message-ID: <20200505224424.GV27494@kduck.mit.edu> References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 05 May 2020 22:44:32 -0000 On Mon, May 04, 2020 at 07:50:15PM +0100, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > Hi Sam, > > On 04/05/2020 19:14, Sam Whited wrote: > > Hi again all, > > > > I submitted this idea as a draft to the TLS working group. However, the > > draft ended up becoming SCRAM/TLS 1.3 specific and the TLS WG suggested > > that it might be a better fit for KITTEN, either as an update to RFC > > 5802, or as a new I-D. > > > > Would this WG be interested in either the draft document or starting an > > update to RFC 5802 if the TLS WG decides that the draft is outside of > > their wheelhouse? > > I am happy to work on either one. Me, too (no hats). -Ben From nobody Wed May 6 10:26:51 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F2BFA3A0898 for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 10:26:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=samwhited.com header.b=hPySygOg; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=W2fYNLtz Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ajiei2kybtJq for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 10:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BB5753A0887 for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 10:26:47 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 054A85C011D; Wed, 6 May 2020 13:26:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap34 ([10.202.2.84]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 06 May 2020 13:26:47 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=samwhited.com; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :cc:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=5h VAH9p0xR126v+k2xoIQTxEO2KcAQuP+neltP7AAME=; b=hPySygOgIAzCin7V70 IdZFe0jSe/+zGhNrz/eV+dnKl+0rzAZS9h9SXLrNPJWgkFvU/5XSxSb/k2Czok/y rQK88rRMS3lU+NesYFK4LAFJc5/59SIl5W6Kd+hMeki5A3xEHO9Rz1DvuBMRm/bF 9yxtnTPgNJXknzeyvdem3aIGnSyH5kcVMsWpn6G13b/RZmBEHGprBnMeQ+mxEyck V37Tc8YgoyOpq41uvRW9W11eZvGHAhKY80bIsZP4lRkSXF8y39VCGyz71/X/V6t+ rlJZad9iFQaUJvihoPrOMkwLEOeqCYDafWDQhQDWDe7kqLCRNFpCO0aaKenlT/IX +e5g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=5hVAH9p0xR126v+k2xoIQTxEO2KcAQuP+neltP7AA ME=; b=W2fYNLtzG28B5Orv7ifmIoQg5vur6WteW60AVjBy1k68WJDxj4Zspm1+5 N5STVxg318AeTPTP7v3vS6HBwIo/EKKCGwD1inCs/xuCGktmWY+f+WV9XLLbQbJs 0PvrOagetls5C26Gby58XL8X6FKEXMFTlfb7LXCgae9lPf59TaIvRywUbkv5QtC9 nXLPsEp8H+XolxDIeCXEVVOhnO+PcdJqXtKtobpWsw9/069i4WVSecNF2CXq8dyh 115TNufIHzmNBdFXgV5kcTnuP9co19ppvlVOn/sFEnUzvUyipC/qVNlKreqlBBcp KyR+h3yYOLqAzKDZo1UH589AKRj9A== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrjeekgddutdelucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfufgr mhcuhghhihhtvggufdcuoehsrghmsehsrghmfihhihhtvggurdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpedvffeuvdduhfefvdeiheeukeffhfekjeevgffggedtlefhhffhieevkedu vefhjeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hsrghmsehsrghmfihhihhtvggurdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 88EB51460061; Wed, 6 May 2020 13:26:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-351-g9981f4f-fmstable-20200421v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 13:26:25 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "Alexey Melnikov" Cc: "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 17:26:49 -0000 Sounds good. There's been more interest here, so would the next step be for me to change the draft from "draft-whited-tls" to "draft-whited- kitten" ? If so I'll move it over and reset the version to 0. Thanks for your help as I try to understand this process (again)! =E2=80=94Sam On Mon, May 4, 2020, at 14:50, Alexey Melnikov wrote: > I am happy to work on either one. From nobody Wed May 6 10:35:20 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 52D723A08F6 for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 10:35:18 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.1 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=samwhited.com header.b=z7tpsQD6; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=hnP/CnRw Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d9zYgL0BdSU3 for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 10:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5F9DD3A08EC for ; Wed, 6 May 2020 10:35:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31C75C0113; Wed, 6 May 2020 13:35:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap34 ([10.202.2.84]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Wed, 06 May 2020 13:35:14 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=samwhited.com; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :cc:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=b5 dfGVnEIOjoSVVbgYT1byrAQGeU8ZKLxmHTjfk+gaI=; b=z7tpsQD6iCg0by1h9/ t7qq8FhfqFhvq1Bgh4RFwFK39jgr9yZYHvhJRWXHIqHNY/13DbkNNmphqdBBYaZR vk3ffxPxXF1EHeVN+GBb8kFyAOxdiNKBYmtIvrOuNXS+COE1/LwlpGuh1f7L5/zk HHBavdk4EzhVBxUyH9ZZ6tSs2j5LT9ZrPbXx8VjI3rR+UBZ7NAtKHBBtMouENlUt EbmAxaADz7TWtZngNUnMyfYLdQXWfPOrxOzoXUwtCmIKhQEvlv3bIMsPr1VxDvEu O8F3Kfa6w7I9gewf8SDOomAQWbA/nXcaMjhRSk5LhUF7fptgMkegUU7FosoqiZqG 8ulw== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=b5dfGVnEIOjoSVVbgYT1byrAQGeU8ZKLxmHTjfk+g aI=; b=hnP/CnRwHpR/TvgeUvlk8DALlQqD4OyLKIb/bJuyFkI7FNiVBYm9Z/xLc OvBB56TC9LUrC5dnz1d7HQbCRPnPLzVQPlCy7NtIF3cbSU52paEJLWg92OsrTWLd n/MMnDW6uTkTBMKB3ZL33eR+2ZwdFaCz905S8egFdfPq04CyiuPjSnXBNupqzhQJ ZZTlVdeeYcQzT0D8duFs8Q0/5gn7iiZkbJp+AeIUaMXmbABTcRSVZJSpdkTYZnsj x5ldwTWlfwckKTYn8asoqOKrBSNcH29S49lokP882IHVeV5/nr/sYEzNVSIkWWhu sRPB1DMb2UNniMKmPv7fYfhulFqSQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrjeekgdduudduucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvffutgfgsehtqhertderreejnecuhfhrohhmpedfufgr mhcuhghhihhtvggufdcuoehsrghmsehsrghmfihhihhtvggurdgtohhmqeenucggtffrrg htthgvrhhnpedvffeuvdduhfefvdeiheeukeffhfekjeevgffggedtlefhhffhieevkedu vefhjeenucevlhhushhtvghrufhiiigvpedtnecurfgrrhgrmhepmhgrihhlfhhrohhmpe hsrghmsehsrghmfihhihhtvggurdgtohhm X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 2ABB41460061; Wed, 6 May 2020 13:35:13 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-351-g9981f4f-fmstable-20200421v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <69821732-1e68-4b76-9c88-847fa069e1db@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <20200430031415.GJ27494@kduck.mit.edu> References: <23661358-b62e-40ed-b209-0551edf4ac8f@www.fastmail.com> <20200430031415.GJ27494@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 13:34:53 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "Benjamin Kaduk" Cc: "Robbie Harwood" , "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] I-D: Best practices for password hashing and storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 06 May 2020 17:35:18 -0000 In the interest of keeping this moving, it's been a little over a week and I've had a bit of review and Dave of course mentioned the initial reason he suggested this document be brought here. If anyone else has feedback or opinions on whether this should or should not be taken on by= the WG, I'd love to hear your thoughts. Otherwise, what are the next steps? Thanks as always for your help guiding me through this process. I really= appreciate it. =E2=80=94Sam On Wed, Apr 29, 2020, at 23:14, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > I would probably give the original mail a week or so bake time and > see what response it elicits before going out of your way to get > further review. --=20 Sam Whited From nobody Thu May 7 09:04:55 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 33E963A0A10 for ; Thu, 7 May 2020 09:04:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.101 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.101 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZQvXDt6oc4j2 for ; Thu, 7 May 2020 09:04:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com [205.139.110.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D1E563A09FB for ; Thu, 7 May 2020 09:04:51 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1588867490; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=eEjOOOJqf1SKANwJh6ZExxKteqsc2FsD7ny7IpXyGos=; b=Ggi4sZVwo4tdmI/NFx5rndW0McGPyVtmOapGDw9D6noCSoFoWuzIOO06IIfWZ3VYJlRBtM +hAtB89NyRMncwZbeo82MPSxA8ICf31JPvahz7SEEwhI2jh19ml/o5H30T5a8peedsuQ68 9tUJcz/lT/yGwOlu4rdPaH5pSTaRMPs= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-440-IBX8xh4yONiv2Pnig44p8Q-1; Thu, 07 May 2020 12:04:45 -0400 X-MC-Unique: IBX8xh4yONiv2Pnig44p8Q-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx01.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id ECE44835B47; Thu, 7 May 2020 16:04:43 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.52]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0F68690E6; Thu, 7 May 2020 16:04:43 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Sam Whited , Alexey Melnikov Cc: KITTEN Working Group In-Reply-To: <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 12:04:35 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.11 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 16:04:53 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain "Sam Whited" writes: > Sounds good. There's been more interest here, so would the next step be > for me to change the draft from "draft-whited-tls" to "draft-whited- > kitten" ? If so I'll move it over and reset the version to 0. > > Thanks for your help as I try to understand this process (again)! (Chair/obnoxious process hat on) I think it would be best to have a formalized call for adoption in kitten - that's a separate email with "call for adoption" and the thing to adopt in the subject. What I've observed so far is interest in the document existing (and willingness to work on it), but not specifically in kitten. We'll let that simmer about a week, and then if there's consensus, we can adopt. (As a contributor) I've certainly no objections to adoption, but TLS is not exactly my wheelhouse. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl60MZMACgkQJTL5F2qV pEL/wBAAjvVYLNTDxVuI+AlBtO9lg8E1Jf8IcfU308pWV9EYxdlAHzYb+79SNEJ2 eVvVFgPisZm6vL03+sTu30UqgZYOlwIxmZyW2dmbDcUgiPUVQafHWD29N4XHQXDE FvtbiT3lLtnAsw/2GTUwBTR1iKigNSv2ULbnfH5Mvz1nHLZgOjKp6FtCFSMiXRY0 V0WahOsyqsND/yfEU9Ko5iF+1AYX0Mm4J9tMnf4AALmStZaGjVuM7+XQ8Kvy0y9m UgqTVtvr9T99zF8QdJbYblrJO9ar6vtwgj05JpE/VF0I9ZDLx9XqSnQMF2SPsGbe uAemgPACLYBa9USupIx7JaCTyP3JOjLdZcig8WMu4+FydbLQPdFPJVQ1fq4KSDjp r3f2cWX47H0v68wlxU0/+FyPP5dvPhPIA/9NC1JZQeTBFx9gu8XLFcz0V8xp2j5O JfN+h1Ld63W7Skyy47YjfQK94sraOEncSdZ/nrXCyPT6adrRHD/Fu+unVaWu9w+D E7X+GFlBKwiyaHIasEj8wW+lelR/OGe+jwfLluxq6AfiUjPSxsSVCwUhZx1ixlf9 4KvIb2X4DERhSqOZoxwTR0eN6QtfTMLX4Hz2fzc+otSDOBdHA20Ebb0UPl3xIjqO a96KyqPg5X86ESSWHSGfdXMnUckIS/x9aDrLXnw8eIBYCyeT/Rk= =EN/i -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu May 7 09:41:19 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BE9263A0AD1 for ; 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Thu, 7 May 2020 12:41:06 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-413-g750b809-fmstable-20200507v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: In-Reply-To: References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 12:40:44 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "Robbie Harwood" , "Alexey Melnikov" Cc: "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 May 2020 16:41:17 -0000 On Thu, May 7, 2020, at 12:04, Robbie Harwood wrote: > (Chair/obnoxious process hat on) I think it would be best to have a > formalized call for adoption in kitten - that's a separate email with > "call for adoption" and the thing to adopt in the subject. What I've > observed so far is interest in the document existing (and willingness > to work on it), but not specifically in kitten. We'll let that simmer= > about a week, and then if there's consensus, we can adopt. Thanks for your help. Is that an email I should send when I figure out whether this belongs in TLS or KITTEN, or should I ask someone else to issue the call, perhaps the chair? Today I've been thinking that this really depends on whether the draft is SCRAM specific or not. If it is, this might be a better place to take= on the work, if not, the TLS WG might be better. Although if it's not SCRAM specific it probably doesn't matter where it lives because the I-D= becomes almost trivial, it's just instructions for IANA to register two labels in a registry so that the existing TLS channel binding mechanism can be used from SASL. =E2=80=94Sam --=20 Sam Whited From nobody Fri May 8 08:41:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C4433A0ADA for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 08:41:39 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JrDO1ewLOaUt for ; 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There's been more interest here, so would the next step be > for me to change the draft from "draft-whited-tls" to "draft-whited- > kitten" ? If so I'll move it over and reset the version to 0. > > Thanks for your help as I try to understand this process (again)! (Chair/obnoxious process hat on) I think it would be best to have a formalized call for adoption in kitten - that's a separate email with "call for adoption" and the thing to adopt in the subject. What I've observed so far is interest in the document existing (and willingness to work on it), but not specifically in kitten. We'll let that simmer about a week, and then if there's consensus, we can adopt. (As a contributor) I've certainly no objections to adoption, but TLS is not exactly my wheelhouse. which I think is the problem; whose is? The I-D baldly states that the curr= ent channel binding does not work with TLS 1.3, with no explanation. I tra= ck the TLS list and do not recall the discussion but the development of 1.3= was tortuous and I could have skipped the discussion on the grounds of Thi= s Is One More 1.3 Problem I Could Do Without. Whatever, this I-D needs to = spell the problem out and IMHO update the current RFC on TLS Channel Bindin= g so that others can see that there is a problem. There is a lot of exper= tise on the TLS list whose names I know well and trust but I do not see man= y of them posting here. Which pushes me to thinking that this I-D=20 --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: https://www.oeclassic.com/ belongs elsewhere. Tom Petch Thanks, --Robbie From nobody Fri May 8 08:51:01 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CA2143A0BAE for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 08:50:42 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=samwhited.com header.b=Urvg7T8W; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=yooSEwEC Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nsv3CFj59GMr for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 08:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out3-smtp.messagingengine.com (out3-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.27]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3A5353A0BB2 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 08:50:39 -0700 (PDT) Received: from compute7.internal (compute7.nyi.internal [10.202.2.47]) by mailout.nyi.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id 93ED35C0209; Fri, 8 May 2020 11:50:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from imap34 ([10.202.2.84]) by compute7.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 08 May 2020 11:50:38 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=samwhited.com; h=mime-version:message-id:in-reply-to:references:date:from:to :cc:subject:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; s=fm2; bh=ah hYCtqkoQt5bAix6JrUvUAVmQgnNJfMRkc46cvMFNA=; b=Urvg7T8W098Wr0KOMR Iv7OVhrGTmqQrPtzi2lsoVlOx8kLmSvjCfc6Nzib1rfo+xnHy9+qPbK4xoG+gDyI DFCdzwSXFyQt4H6BoOcmi9DFt2hTZx91mJJ7kTDZ3ZhhKXpIvKMqQkcIHlPxU6cz gGlevVnAp/bMeAq5eMeFavnL/x/SPDvtTxqv+C2+6+5sIOvYGL2K3jHygM0nYe8l fcpGMBHvmm0G2O5homQWRgzanjWQNHSyMhvpUtPSZC8K9jFU9ozlCeWywHBx4Mi/ liLGsRG0mH3z4iW8ogWwDSyOadPcB2vaNgRLhnySEEKkG70xut+pyaZFs/r4+Yn1 4saQ== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type :date:from:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version:references :subject:to:x-me-proxy:x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender :x-sasl-enc; s=fm2; bh=ahhYCtqkoQt5bAix6JrUvUAVmQgnNJfMRkc46cvMF NA=; b=yooSEwECH6ouuVPTpQ+Vv4PPImIuD2brmZ5TFouqrbgys6wsoFrsO5s0P txOgyWdVkl/FWnX47dgx1321rJoIWon1b2rJTj3M/J6ZbwJmk8ql3mY6UgCfimGI 5LB9Oc7Qey0Lpadi6YmZL0nH1qc5I1P0Gxm8VeoMGbCS44p4hCrBRZx0tw2DJbgn vV6OCVIXlDN5vdLQJhDKxQsWHNklKJicWE9ElaDM0yR5Y/O4XyRj8IcWYOgcHzFc ZjEHuDr0GQXqmXixv1dlKib6N6hrQM53u4sDlA+DXUBMMHogZRs6XscVZGO3blZf F9lUuhbs1Y03FmbqV4+R5MvU8uPKQ== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgeduhedrkeefgddvjecutefuodetggdotefrodftvf curfhrohhfihhlvgemucfhrghsthforghilhdpqfgfvfdpuffrtefokffrpgfnqfghnecu uegrihhlohhuthemuceftddtnecusecvtfgvtghiphhivghnthhsucdlqddutddtmdenuc fjughrpefofgggkfgjfhffhffvufgtgfesthhqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepfdfurghm ucghhhhithgvugdfuceoshgrmhesshgrmhifhhhithgvugdrtghomheqnecuggftrfgrth htvghrnhepvdffuedvudfhfedvieehueekfffhkeejvefggfegtdelhffhhfeiveekudev hfejnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenucfrrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepsh grmhesshgrmhifhhhithgvugdrtghomh X-ME-Proxy: Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id A12611460061; Fri, 8 May 2020 11:50:37 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-413-g750b809-fmstable-20200507v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <70c569d7-de56-4afd-b3d1-509bebd5964b@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <1UW9H0ROlm.1L2tuElxz66@pc8xp> References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> <1UW9H0ROlm.1L2tuElxz66@pc8xp> Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 11:50:14 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "tom petch" , "Robbie Harwood" , "Alexey Melnikov" Cc: "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 15:50:44 -0000 On Fri, May 8, 2020, at 11:41, tom petch wrote: > which I think is the problem; whose is? The I-D baldly states that the= > current channel binding does not work with TLS 1.3, with no > explanation. I'll fix that, thanks! > Whatever, this I-D needs to spell the problem out and IMHO update the > current RFC on TLS Channel Binding so that others can see that there > is a problem. Is there a different process to update an existing RFC vs. creating a new I-D and trying to get it adopted by a WG? I'm still unclear on the process in general, and it seems like this might be different. If we're updating that document anyways, I assume the TLS WG would be the place and we might as well integrate this I-D into the document update instead of keeping it a separate I-D. > Which pushes me to thinking that this I-D Looks like this got cut off? Thanks for the feedback! =E2=80=94Sam --=20 Sam Whited From nobody Fri May 8 09:11:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AB3FB3A0C94 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:11:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6XV_a7lB93z9 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:11:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [62.232.206.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8CE4A3A0C81 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:11:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1588954264; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=ta+DNtUWuE3d3RKnav4WvHDAeE42rvTscaNFYxe/81w=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=Fm56dGDede6pKAB5TJdkspn6U7igkK+QT9o3g1T6TlFyhDSjilYTvQwZ9aVLm/J/P+DjLY /FjqyiKZRaIT4I5UaI7t3M81cfXQcr3mMmJvwRFVmydijrNxLVswbb9FEH6jaTQ7FAqVad 2YPnpRV98kYRENsso2I9CaL7aT3Xou4=; Received: from [192.168.0.8] (0546c907.skybroadband.com [5.70.201.7]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Fri, 8 May 2020 17:11:04 +0100 To: Sam Whited Cc: tom petch , Robbie Harwood , KITTEN Working Group References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> <1UW9H0ROlm.1L2tuElxz66@pc8xp> <70c569d7-de56-4afd-b3d1-509bebd5964b@www.fastmail.com> From: Alexey Melnikov Autocrypt: addr=alexey.melnikov@isode.com; prefer-encrypt=mutual; keydata= mQENBFWQBiQBCADFmiucA1/FCqO+LUOm/Xf2+NpPuSbPcLAWd0x1K1V4F1WTPScSolQ/u0y8 faozrF3uQXZxInvmLJOALfOqm4lfg8CN2BqAxMrlCqka1Ku8UJ9A6kOGaZWlBKUmiIjVng9D 91k8MRare9dE5b0Yj33mUO/ifhC+np0H7CXpB6E2IzvAUkgWCPlXEVO6ffV1Xr+J/UeArqoF Fj1RoMN+Kc701e3GzKHpuryng66Jx9+k7daOSgWNF1zOU1JCJKIZ1uHIlzro1y0KtvWTwwM1 331q72HWESG0NatDnu1QotxxFHLDQFsHZ59A5yvIdyeZvjuEr9paorNVIk7Esg4THaljABEB AAG0K0FsZXhleSBNZWxuaWtvdiA8YWxleGV5Lm1lbG5pa292QGlzb2RlLmNvbT6JATkEEwEI ACMFAlWQBiQCGw8HCwkIBwMCAQYVCAIJCgsEFgIDAQIeAQIXgAAKCRBdp82zsCM7iDACB/4q EiLSBhpjDJ+pm1f6IXQvtTW3YGrca0kidZ0yX/qn30bkRtFsjXJVOspKENzBhZCI5bX/Si0I qKkR0DqnuJqchVzKXl25HfMvA2w2KRr8VFLFWMnCB4/jnaMWWQ4EV1MqbyFXl3m0LwZ1U4rd EQLvzPTNd8tqyy093rN53jTl0FmBAEHYzbUHsYB6wx8gqJBFkIGEgPHftZboJ/8ywo983YBQ /8Brb8awV3PeonmHc7W9QMKoN37U9VLbXOvAZVDvJ4QI1P/P3Uad1tkkeyuCcluuPe2M7CjK HF8zQHYGSCz70NY+MhbfhgT5WMjPuW5ls+Q1yES257+lmRkx3eyT Message-ID: <3ee99b75-9181-2c63-ba6b-20bdbd9acb4a@isode.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 17:11:07 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; Win64; x64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.8.0 In-Reply-To: <70c569d7-de56-4afd-b3d1-509bebd5964b@www.fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Language: en-US Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 May 2020 16:11:08 -0000 Hi Sam, On 08/05/2020 16:50, Sam Whited wrote: > On Fri, May 8, 2020, at 11:41, tom petch wrote: >> which I think is the problem; whose is? The I-D baldly states that the >> current channel binding does not work with TLS 1.3, with no >> explanation. > > I'll fix that, thanks! > > >> Whatever, this I-D needs to spell the problem out and IMHO update the >> current RFC on TLS Channel Binding so that others can see that there >> is a problem. > > Is there a different process to update an existing RFC vs. creating a > new I-D and trying to get it adopted by a WG? Not really, no. > I'm still unclear on the > process in general, and it seems like this might be different. > > If we're updating that document anyways, I assume the TLS WG would be > the place and we might as well integrate this I-D into the document > update instead of keeping it a separate I-D. I don't think we should revise RFC 5056, adding a new channel binding in a new draft would be easier. RFC 5056 already created a registry for channel bingings: https://www.iana.org/assignments/channel-binding-types/channel-binding-types.xhtml So we can just add a new registration. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Fri May 8 09:14:00 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91BCD3A0AF3 for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:13:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, MSGID_FROM_MTA_HEADER=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=btconnect.onmicrosoft.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5AfXfqQeTX3p for ; Fri, 8 May 2020 09:13:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR04-VI1-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr80133.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.8.133]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 440C33A089F for ; 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Fri, 8 May 2020 16:13:51 +0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> <1UW9H0ROlm.1L2tuElxz66@pc8xp> <70c569d7-de56-4afd-b3d1-509bebd5964b@www.fastmail.com> Date: Fri, 8 May 2020 17:13:37 +0100 Message-ID: <1UW9H0vh5Q.3E4zhN6zjjL@pc8xp> In-Reply-To: <70c569d7-de56-4afd-b3d1-509bebd5964b@www.fastmail.com> From: "tom petch" To: "Sam Whited" , "Robbie Harwood" , "Alexey Melnikov" Cc: "KITTEN Working Group" User-Agent: OEClassic/3.0 (WinXP.2600; F; 2019-11-28) X-ClientProxiedBy: LO2P265CA0364.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a3::16) To VI1PR0701MB2480.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com (2603:10a6:800:63::16) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from pc8xp (81.131.229.19) by LO2P265CA0364.GBRP265.PROD.OUTLOOK.COM (2603:10a6:600:a3::16) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.2979.26 via Frontend Transport; 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whose is? The I-D baldly states that the > current channel binding does not work with TLS 1.3, with no > explanation. I'll fix that, thanks! > Whatever, this I-D needs to spell the problem out and IMHO update the > current RFC on TLS Channel Binding so that others can see that there > is a problem. Is there a different process to update an existing RFC vs. creating a new I-D and trying to get it adopted by a WG? I'm still unclear on the process in general, and it seems like this might be different. If we're updating that document anyways, I assume the TLS WG would be the place and we might as well integrate this I-D into the document update instead of keeping it a separate I-D. > Which pushes me to thinking that this I-D Looks like this got cut off? No, my antisocial MUA put an advertisement in the middle of the sentence, w= hich it will probably do here as well. RFC are never changed, once issued = that is it (which I like - contrast IEEE). So when technology advances, we = can issue a -bis, a new RFC number, which is a total replacement; or we can= issue a new RFC which is an update to the old adding new information, obso= leting the out-of-date and so on. The RFC Index on the RFC Editor website = lists everything that updates or obsoletes everything else as well as sayin= g which are Standards, Standards Track, Historic and so on; I notice that y= ours is Experimental which is let's give this a go and see what happens and= may be later it can become a Standard but in the meantime don't rely on it= too much. All IETF work starts as an I-D and may go through dozens of ite= rations before advancing; most are adopted by a Working Group, with WG Chai= rs, AD and so on, with the expertise to peer review and get it to a stage w= orthy of publication. It can be a challenge to get it adopted - some WG se= em reluctant (TLS comes to mind not that TLS does not do a lot of work or p= erhaps that is why). Adoption is controlled by the WG Chair but depends on= support from WG members. For this I-D, of the WG I track, my sense is tha= t the TLS WG has the skills to review this and Kitten may not (duck, as the= brickbats come in). I was involved in the early stages on channel binding= in the IETF and have kept on looking at it and wondering why such a good i= dea is not more widely used. Tom Petch --- New Outlook Express and Windows Live Mail replacement - get it here: https://www.oeclassic.com/ Thanks for the feedback! =E2=80=94Sam --=20 Sam Whited From nobody Sat May 9 04:49:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 147783A0B33 for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 04:49:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0lsxYZT8zfHo for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 04:49:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from statler.isode.com (Statler.isode.com [62.232.206.189]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FCE13A0A24 for ; Sat, 9 May 2020 04:49:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1589024950; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=aFzWMhq/BU6zFuiYDEKQXQGxSjfOJd6aMrTjF8qEr/I=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=QvPuVgJ1XftOo8xlgCfyQTxbLaANxHkmkS+gSjkzSNxSLGkczs3Mn16FLSHIFW5hkd3Sm8 SXj8pv/Os2zxOjo0e5yIlwKK3gEpKiVGIZAPJ3KykMUowXy8vgmCZ1s8aRxyY4Z8I79Egc O2TGcUzgsO0YX8LYelOGCePuxIGzY4I=; Received: from [172.27.253.187] (connect.isode.net [172.20.0.72]) by statler.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Sat, 9 May 2020 12:49:09 +0100 To: tom petch , Sam Whited Cc: KITTEN Working Group References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> <1UW9H0ROlm.1L2tuElxz66@pc8xp> <70c569d7-de56-4afd-b3d1-509bebd5964b@www.fastmail.com> <1UW9H0vh5Q.3E4zhN6zjjL@pc8xp> From: Alexey Melnikov Message-ID: <5764e9b4-ed94-fdc1-712b-b412ea945b1d@isode.com> Date: Sat, 9 May 2020 12:48:13 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 In-Reply-To: <1UW9H0vh5Q.3E4zhN6zjjL@pc8xp> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 May 2020 11:49:23 -0000 On 08/05/2020 17:13, tom petch wrote: > For this I-D, of the WG I track, my sense is that the TLS WG has the skills to review this and Kitten may not (duck, as the brickbats come in). Yeah, I think I disagree with this statement. I think either WG has expertese to review it, but some collaboration (crossposting might be enough) is needed anyway. From nobody Tue May 12 09:54:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 537633A0746; Tue, 12 May 2020 09:54:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KaOR9MNE4S6O; Tue, 12 May 2020 09:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71CA93A0538; Tue, 12 May 2020 09:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 04CGsQr7003017 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 12 May 2020 12:54:28 -0400 Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 09:54:25 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Greg Hudson Cc: draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth.all@ietf.org, kitten@ietf.org Message-ID: <20200512165425.GA27494@kduck.mit.edu> References: <20190404235859.GM54777@kduck.mit.edu> <5ee8aeab-30c9-f963-3391-3a860e20c426@mit.edu> <20200426211435.GP27494@kduck.mit.edu> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <20200426211435.GP27494@kduck.mit.edu> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] AD review of draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-06 X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 16:54:32 -0000 Hi Greg, On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 02:14:35PM -0700, Benjamin Kaduk wrote: > Hi Greg, > > On Thu, Apr 23, 2020 at 01:32:52PM -0400, Greg Hudson wrote: > > > > These changes, as well as updates addressing the smaller feedback items, > > are at > > https://github.com/greghudson/ietf/commit/6ecf1b9dfacc804692d858c726888855a512b8b7 > > . I will update the draft unless it seems like there isn't WG consensus > > on this direction. Thanks for pushing out the -07; I went over the changes and they look good, so I've kicked off the IETF Last Call. -Ben From nobody Tue May 12 12:15:02 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C7EF3A0994 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:15:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.273 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.273 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.173, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ENV2sNKzwmxR for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:14:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-2.mimecast.com [207.211.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 331CA3A0966 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:14:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1589310898; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type; bh=yzbIj1p5on0yriruoOkf0ajCwMZS8xvMLg8i6IscH6o=; b=U1fPD24p1FoavERJG4tOQTzHXL0K6uZr+K9ejTczGUCNE8FDepNGlIzmSA4NRgulWEKX2G r7uLF9h/32UuhruGi+asOAYRF5Er98WdA6hkrPp8vo2HFx/AkVh4RL5yR6zvntBzFgm9i2 j6+jhARl1YR0/HNlwlBTJZGDwvcrcXk= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-451-kuLUzQFfOjeFLL5ld-Gwcg-1; Tue, 12 May 2020 15:14:50 -0400 X-MC-Unique: kuLUzQFfOjeFLL5ld-Gwcg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx08.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DD9B51009442; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:14:47 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.55]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BBFD39D; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:14:47 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: kitten@ietf.org, Sam Whited Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 15:14:42 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.23 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] Call for adoption on draft-whited-kitten-password-storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:15:01 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain We've had some discussion about this in the "I-D: Best practices for password hashing and storage", so here's a formal call. We are, to be clear, discussing this document: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-whited-kitten-password-storage/ Beyond Sam, I believe there is expressed interest from Simon and Dave, as well as potentially the XMPP Standards Foundation. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl669aMACgkQJTL5F2qV pEJKWBAAlsl4QxhdUhs3JPEpB0Wz74cHTSKohM8+sZHXNqqo4GHwfdig04ejsMYI nmdDoRB7mXpMMbgv9sc4HaBCAGcVOgSkPp1fvuOc6u/4VR+zRI/xBzoTjM8vQ0Xs RuTNaKcN2Ad8h/HbVt3O+UrckGMjx8FPXoJzsEig4FjAXGiqn20EAsZ0BQO11epG OMnhFnhY/p4sxXRcrhUOU3Hht89Vca0oVJA436tMZ5SmTq7gvXV1k22lk25eXttm 6J8YnBf9LiXl5e3QXrJ8Zdxnta/TcdyEr0ldgYnZtD1nVRThSVL34KwLErMkGFOo qj+YR4WBSkfUErNz/bhCZ9tH5TCGphfjAGtMr1Jj/gHZqPId9YQgwaqMVUyswePe RS/OQ3M+Hec4sFKigdwCYL4guOzDTXK6YL1FApJ3/cpW6aaqg8/mAcDULUAzyo9V 7pSPCATY+zpSMTharWb+eHBRlHTDJdpMw73dfPjq7+uXPuKkekFdfNq98bjXUvBY mIVVX7fKyycuaEFxIPlvYBkG/mZwOEBmX321TFXbowJs5v73x4TIT5OZKSbs6P/t kC4xzDB1jdlVYQqZFooV8l1mO1uUPE8mHkw11sXmX7gRkp5nMgW8PkPJZjI9cz6f NaaU5CUh+KfBqniXsHMG6H0DqDkO/XZ3YRP6xaIBXPBt6uQCH/M= =wUcW -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue May 12 12:16:05 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 43F473A09CE for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:16:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.273 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.273 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.173, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mor_XDbxoSDE for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:16:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com [205.139.110.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7642F3A08F6 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:16:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1589310960; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=jVyRHhsRTfZyUM27q1foqLWWmdC/xkffbEP5vU2/Xig=; b=F1FfhNXfGnZIBrb9XPivBIUZvQa6Z4tkC8E4f7tb9OV/l6wK2EN2jP2e1Vy8e5bicflpOt ZjKCTNmINZq5RyTNeNhRcnRQm/A9t61uvif6oXfrwNpfSKL0Hlo1aCqXmgMw8xD3Ayyww+ CpJpCvTh2TA192vQyHd7lpCBNx19JEo= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-64-0_PGFXWgPWO8QtU_6gXWIQ-1; Tue, 12 May 2020 15:15:56 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 0_PGFXWgPWO8QtU_6gXWIQ-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EABBD19200C9; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:15:54 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.55]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 95D4E1CC; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:15:54 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Sam Whited , Benjamin Kaduk Cc: KITTEN Working Group In-Reply-To: <69821732-1e68-4b76-9c88-847fa069e1db@www.fastmail.com> References: <23661358-b62e-40ed-b209-0551edf4ac8f@www.fastmail.com> <20200430031415.GJ27494@kduck.mit.edu> <69821732-1e68-4b76-9c88-847fa069e1db@www.fastmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 15:15:53 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.13 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] I-D: Best practices for password hashing and storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:16:04 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain "Sam Whited" writes: > In the interest of keeping this moving, it's been a little over a week > and I've had a bit of review and Dave of course mentioned the initial > reason he suggested this document be brought here. If anyone else has > feedback or opinions on whether this should or should not be taken on > by the WG, I'd love to hear your thoughts. > > Otherwise, what are the next steps? > > Thanks as always for your help guiding me through this process. I > really appreciate it. Thanks for your patience; that delay was longer than I intended. I've issued the formal call for adoption; assuming no objections, I'm inclined to adopt. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl669ekACgkQJTL5F2qV pEJ1QxAAp8sJskwWst2Sa3bskiIBrMEw+HGdDsKwP4CDlQa3pnwLSwQsx1yqou6V PMV9Bdn1M+3RE/ewwyAR858Bks+zNn486DHxMlMn4wHjwd+cOanGEAlsZmPuQ4hq WXnCEDzz/lhfsvzCq7L551Rv1mRD83fV9HqyBETMHG3K9XSiP2CXRVnmWHOvQY9q AiCFSWhvKtVhSSnLndFN9QH/4z3jo5AeRq2yNKxWH77M8UQTdQF9elcrAndhrR8O rqo6i6PoHYHY+bMjewov1kpahurUwq+vYnofQCxOKKHlQjt3mHILjcOF+762zvLa MatxsAay0lE1AsMlXAPGKAw7F9cNAVBx7BVxttrJgymEVNLvA6TPFOVt1MdwhDcq 3ogORRHzxb8Tbez6g6UIptqWPv211rMN3wAYS7ZDwymCNE2WEgJJyJKcAhUmuh8s ng/Sh3zv3Ezpscn60UpWVhopgzQwq2q7k7ZByMnNAHWpV//AkTeMWSoPN1eK+KOe zHAt6GW2dUmLUdHfvcM7O2gy4d6VRA7BpsogUrvzUrThlBt+rSrN5wA66Di9KTb0 IhveSb9Wlo7NHnhUgE+QWbjNBeqiyE33qWRg6By8L/9DUO5XUM1ltQ8T8LtLicl4 LKmVyV5Q3qas/6SJEqINoJhDzcCXXzSpq8eq4TAaAHc+5u0XuWY= =U0zL -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue May 12 12:53:15 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 44B5A3A0A3B for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:53:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.273 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.273 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.173, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tLwRFvnMMfPT for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:53:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-1.mimecast.com [205.139.110.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F2ED43A0A32 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 12:53:11 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1589313191; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=ywExTCQNiWJu/VJ3AIqdPodhVxndkHr/jCn4GateQYI=; b=JyIFZlXk2dyrlPRWcmiWiuyUI8SNU7qygC7uraOkLDwl7RIip/D5ufaIBTmoxuG9Ruj2az ymILGURSaMeIFIBSVtwtU/fdapGVkdS3y/fbe+5PEhBhTHR1sCX549CCgTvxLYc+c8XfU4 WaPgwKObnwIaCClYYjCgPVMkfgQbfJY= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-34-5G13PaWcMB-nzTqfBrTLqQ-1; Tue, 12 May 2020 15:53:07 -0400 X-MC-Unique: 5G13PaWcMB-nzTqfBrTLqQ-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CCE9B8005B7; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:53:04 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.55]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 788E85D9E5; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:53:04 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Sam Whited , Alexey Melnikov Cc: KITTEN Working Group In-Reply-To: References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 15:53:03 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 19:53:13 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain "Sam Whited" writes: > On Thu, May 7, 2020, at 12:04, Robbie Harwood wrote: > >> (Chair/obnoxious process hat on) I think it would be best to have a >> formalized call for adoption in kitten - that's a separate email with >> "call for adoption" and the thing to adopt in the subject. What I've >> observed so far is interest in the document existing (and willingness >> to work on it), but not specifically in kitten. We'll let that >> simmer about a week, and then if there's consensus, we can adopt. > > Thanks for your help. Is that an email I should send when I figure out > whether this belongs in TLS or KITTEN, or should I ask someone else to > issue the call, perhaps the chair? > > Today I've been thinking that this really depends on whether the draft > is SCRAM specific or not. If it is, this might be a better place to > take on the work, if not, the TLS WG might be better. Although if it's > not SCRAM specific it probably doesn't matter where it lives because > the I-D becomes almost trivial, it's just instructions for IANA to > register two labels in a registry so that the existing TLS channel > binding mechanism can be used from SASL. To provide an update here: conversation with TLS is ongoing and we are waiting to hear back at this time. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl66/p8ACgkQJTL5F2qV pEI9rBAAj81rv8w/Bc3Ffa29rQr0Ki7RStpn5gAnlchE1ismS/HU1WfLhf6SyObt pl0DocsRX5hEWLmg6mXWMb45PLtdw2t83xTM1yDYWKg7BEBzeiNkT/IHBeEnl5sc maOdViH2CnPdMnR6FHyo27aHqjhhAXs9223RLXSA3bM4xN72X3sKgcu+raFwXzdI KDImP/UFHhG4IcCt8bs4RgDUgtSfOoJYHVYyVzE1QYgp9TZmVg4gwqSBOb3nKPcU 426ytTCQTz5wWvAEy8BSc7Kl1x0NA182PWvgZnC2l95ikfZW3cYzpiw5vWbXWnRM VJ+cSS0pSQLE3eBSA/P08EHA0H0R5jyv9Vuna+bAs+dxhnvBRICI6xPExjcJUTBu PznAPiBLgE5sVyvoHnxy8fzRB51YKdOjrkGt+ujiTz2YZ45l2CUC6FmQ0GqwfsTp SyticReboTQFB839E/QrYp6g25ONceCcAuXY93l94D5TH1LGk3euqITGDl/3HNDH jnH0kh3D07jSLkgt4ch1fBO8mKSZimRUES2uI98fYPItY5vklSVdB9Gs/Vr/D9Dd kcVwNvZ4xRkXWaC8yp6irf0KTffN5Gp1+rjnIZqHlLrrXkYOCw7hf+lasx7S8O9E RjhFKp0mMDt1bGGuIGnxOBwgjXBuP7EzDyqq4Dmtkd6uTWrStSc= =B+C0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue May 12 13:35:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EDC083A0ABC; Tue, 12 May 2020 13:35:25 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: "IETF-Announce" X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.129.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk CC: kaduk@mit.edu, kitten-chairs@ietf.org, draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth@ietf.org, kitten@ietf.org, Nicolas Williams , nico@cryptonector.com Reply-To: last-call@ietf.org Sender: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <158931572587.672.10779484664492674545@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 13:35:25 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] Last Call: (SPAKE Pre-Authentication) to Proposed Standard X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 May 2020 20:35:26 -0000 The IESG has received a request from the Common Authentication Technology Next Generation WG (kitten) to consider the following document: - 'SPAKE Pre-Authentication' as Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the last-call@ietf.org mailing lists by 2020-05-26. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract This document defines a new pre-authentication mechanism for the Kerberos protocol that uses a password authenticated key exchange. This document has three goals. First, increase the security of Kerberos pre-authentication exchanges by making offline brute-force attacks infeasible. Second, enable the use of second factor authentication without relying on FAST. This is achieved using the existing trust relationship established by the shared first factor. Third, make Kerberos pre-authentication more resilient against time synchronization errors by removing the need to transfer an encrypted timestamp from the client. The file can be obtained via https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. From nobody Tue May 12 19:21:24 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1D4B63A0CE0 for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:21:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=padl.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id udJgb93BlAvF for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us.padl.com (us.padl.com [216.154.215.154]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7978E3A0CDD for ; Tue, 12 May 2020 19:21:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: by us.padl.com with ESMTP id 04D2L9qr013434; Wed, 13 May 2020 02:21:16 GMT DKIM-Filter: OpenDKIM Filter v2.11.0 us.padl.com 04D2L9qr013434 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=padl.com; s=default; t=1589336478; bh=Mnmvqvz9vShW4g9OqiahsZb+X/fZRslBIjBKA1IAA3c=; h=From:Subject:Date:In-Reply-To:Cc:To:References:From; b=rkTjwirV9+XWCnC0fABqcV5sDLAkSMn5kwLXCcMemJzS7iMTQ6P2CZAusm/d6XuVF axJ4RN06R2MUC1AShsTFTL+wBANEHJCm24vu2F0LwO39eIpPw6dJyx7+/R0jHpFCOJ UjvicUDOQvmjbKcawa5tvxNuM4kb8jHVLTaacjAE/6GArseX6/vEjkG3Yr8SmSmMDj fPt8sgxGbB4Oabhfb5ZqaGrrBE8ZeruQuYPwn+p5CbDVJGbL/wFI9HiaWODNY3FpHX BFXcBfUet4vECcyXaDRnYk+Lmxc9sOwEFC/qX9JmcUvEAh6JAapjr4hG8z/bAl3T1W U/9//R0GXT9QQ== From: Luke Howard Message-Id: <18CAFEE0-179F-427F-B661-7BBF68DE7233@padl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_5EDE3653-7A90-4DB9-B192-8039727CD984" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 12:21:05 +1000 In-Reply-To: To: "kitten@ietf.org" References: <5822327E-C113-447B-AAB8-34902F585566@padl.com> <0674f16b-742c-8e4b-ee56-7112242684ed@secure-endpoints.com> <20200426044120.GD18021@localhost> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] SAnon kitten adoption X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 02:21:23 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_5EDE3653-7A90-4DB9-B192-8039727CD984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 So =E2=80=93 how do we move this forward? I realise I probably need to = update to request an IANA assignment if it=E2=80=99s going to be = standards track. Luke Howard web / facebook = / instagram = / spotify = > On 6 May 2020, at 8:26 am, Jeffrey Altman = wrote: >=20 > On 5/5/2020 5:00 PM, Robbie Harwood wrote: >> Nico Williams writes: >>=20 >>> On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at 12:02:16AM -0400, Jeffrey Altman wrote: >>>=20 >>>> SAnon will be implemented in Heimdal. I would be interested in = seeing >>>> it adaopted by Kitten as a standards track document. >>>=20 >>> Me too. >>=20 >> Hearing no objections, seeing voices in favor, and an implementation = for >> Heimdal, SAnon has been adopted for work in kitten and is now known = as >> draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon. >=20 > Thank you Robbie. >=20 > There is also an implementation as a mechanism plugin for MIT that = works > with RHEL7/8. >=20 > Jeffrey Altman >=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________ > Kitten mailing list > Kitten@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten --Apple-Mail=_5EDE3653-7A90-4DB9-B192-8039727CD984 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 So = =E2=80=93 how do we move this forward? I realise I probably need to = update to request an IANA assignment if it=E2=80=99s going to be = standards track.

Luke = Howard
web / facebook / instagram / spotify

On 6 May 2020, at 8:26 am, Jeffrey Altman <jaltman@secure-endpoints.com> wrote:

On = 5/5/2020 5:00 PM, Robbie Harwood wrote:
Nico Williams <nico@cryptonector.com> writes:

On Sun, Apr 26, 2020 at = 12:02:16AM -0400, Jeffrey Altman wrote:

SAnon will be = implemented in Heimdal.  I would be interested in seeing
it adaopted by Kitten as a standards track document.

Me too.

Hearing no objections, seeing = voices in favor, and an implementation for
Heimdal, SAnon = has been adopted for work in kitten and is now known as
draft-ietf-kitten-gss-sanon.

Thank you Robbie.

There is also = an implementation as a mechanism plugin for MIT that works
with RHEL7/8.

Jeffrey Altman


_______________________________________________
Kitten mailing list
Kitten@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten

= --Apple-Mail=_5EDE3653-7A90-4DB9-B192-8039727CD984-- From nobody Wed May 13 07:15:03 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8827F3A0BE9 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:14:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.096 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.096 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=cridland.net Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id LiRZbJXQ6jfZ for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:14:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-wm1-x32b.google.com (mail-wm1-x32b.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32b]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 77FBC3A0BD1 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:14:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32b.google.com with SMTP id f134so14549944wmf.1 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:14:42 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=cridland.net; s=google; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=5uH1nzJ7ixeT98BE87CG3RmBpwM6y176P+ivdBCfcHY=; b=Fk4D1JsQJMfpiABMuUBo+TjsKr1w6YzgMtuIkliW1TkjvWiC6V4RDmEYJ3UK3JqK93 6xQjb+BtPfSapSngq2ibttRzez8VvMBwWvsm07d9JqoqGgrDvu3tPgUQk9wtqhxrAJU7 Av+dFHJ8+3TUa7Rmh9dDZ+v2PPFxsyXnJyrvU= X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=5uH1nzJ7ixeT98BE87CG3RmBpwM6y176P+ivdBCfcHY=; b=hEJpLmtpk/ftAYIrOJlb+SOkpOiDmHX/pwgsDubE1cJNPODyqSp11z7sg2ixaDHGDA pyaHTqtkLalAo28vsSax+OJVqI2eq41UO6rNP9XbPHXb2GMP35yLRQDondNZsRafv2+9 1HA5MtDWaJryvuaPue7PcB+rsewNvbOn6Cd8/u5n1tg+quh7rR4tCPOKDyDYU4Ud/E24 XEzqc4l8wpXSnbMurD5JuvYS500LlUPGiucXtPZuz158cvySkPFR4a+UBvbbqpxPhBJc pFdtwSJkzVbSwNs5KL1QOPkAxp/NrJw/UaSypJZycs57KQXrhGhjZuoalsmKBGoK4SUY BVgw== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5309cesG6qbc5IWzbUdY3BNJ/Opr8zwhht8dQcm+4/WH4tzI6oWv W928TjxJto5chGF5JudF9DeaogEefDTrkhUyqhvuVA== X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJym+rqMugpwcSG8cx4FmVggfuQgRZe170iuwKjgVH/wBXqNhm2ISXxhEuKPcjjq0nyAPBdhU81jbyeQtra4OIQ= X-Received: by 2002:a1c:5985:: with SMTP id n127mr3342802wmb.64.1589379280919; Wed, 13 May 2020 07:14:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Cridland Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 15:14:30 +0100 Message-ID: To: Robbie Harwood Cc: KITTEN Working Group , Sam Whited Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="00000000000073fa4905a588332c" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Call for adoption on draft-whited-kitten-password-storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 14:15:00 -0000 --00000000000073fa4905a588332c Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 20:15, Robbie Harwood wrote: > We've had some discussion about this in the "I-D: Best practices for > password hashing and storage", so here's a formal call. We are, to be > clear, discussing this document: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-whited-kitten-password-storage/ > > Beyond Sam, I believe there is expressed interest from Simon and Dave, > as well as potentially the XMPP Standards Foundation. > To affirm, yes I'm personally interested in working on this. I'll try to bring people over from the XSF on this one as well. > > Thanks, > --Robbie > _______________________________________________ > Kitten mailing list > Kitten@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten > --00000000000073fa4905a588332c Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


=
On Tue, 12 May 2020 at 20:15, Robbie = Harwood <rharwood@redhat.com&= gt; wrote:
We= 9;ve had some discussion about this in the "I-D: Best practices for password hashing and storage", so here's a formal call.=C2=A0 We a= re, to be
clear, discussing this document:

https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-whited-kitten-password-storage/

Beyond Sam, I believe there is expressed interest from Simon and Dave,
as well as potentially the XMPP Standards Foundation.
=
To affirm, yes I'm personally interested in working on t= his. I'll try to bring people over from the XSF on this one as well.
=C2=A0

Thanks,
--Robbie
_______________________________________________
Kitten mailing list
Kitten@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten
--00000000000073fa4905a588332c-- From nobody Wed May 13 10:29:35 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EA31A3A0CCD for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:29:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=isode.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8scplX--WoYq for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:29:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from waldorf.isode.com (waldorf.isode.com [62.232.206.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A146A3A0CC0 for ; Wed, 13 May 2020 10:29:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; t=1589390967; d=isode.com; s=june2016; i=@isode.com; bh=qQkxMNURQ4piQ6EJdhpDk7NYb6Q0zZsmKbWpFaXQ9oA=; h=From:Sender:Reply-To:Subject:Date:Message-ID:To:Cc:MIME-Version: In-Reply-To:References:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description; b=uhqbMDfL0s3CG+gGR0ndn1hwLI05wZlZQUuUlWKj6NtfeByXH4tB91Eq8/16p/l/lD5tiW oHXHvsPiToICZwbrHqwTeG3sRlDVsxcVzE5Yi9znU5crHrNeq9xmoAV8nFZTI5v3Bv6uV7 7UOefIWgy/AfppJExmXvmK2l3+kOLKQ=; Received: from [172.27.248.66] (connect.isode.net [172.20.0.72]) by waldorf.isode.com (submission channel) via TCP with ESMTPSA id ; Wed, 13 May 2020 18:29:27 +0100 To: Robbie Harwood , kitten@ietf.org, Sam Whited References: From: Alexey Melnikov Message-ID: <58c63dd3-92a4-21b6-3300-4f3781c8d652@isode.com> Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 18:29:17 +0100 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; WOW64; rv:68.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/68.7.0 In-Reply-To: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Language: en-GB Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Call for adoption on draft-whited-kitten-password-storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 May 2020 17:29:34 -0000 Hi, On 12/05/2020 20:14, Robbie Harwood wrote: > We've had some discussion about this in the "I-D: Best practices for > password hashing and storage", so here's a formal call. We are, to be > clear, discussing this document: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-whited-kitten-password-storage/ > > Beyond Sam, I believe there is expressed interest from Simon and Dave, > as well as potentially the XMPP Standards Foundation. I support adoption of this draft by KITTEN. Best Regards, Alexey From nobody Fri May 15 09:57:40 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 601D33A0AE1; Fri, 15 May 2020 09:57:38 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: Russ Housley via Datatracker To: Cc: last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth.all@ietf.org, kitten@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.130.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158956185809.27642.15651397749101904532@ietfa.amsl.com> Reply-To: Russ Housley Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 09:57:38 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-07 X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 May 2020 16:57:39 -0000 Reviewer: Russ Housley Review result: Almost Ready I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like any other last call comments. For more information, please see the FAQ at . Document: draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-07 Reviewer: Russ Housley Review Date: 2020-05-15 IETF LC End Date: 2020-05-26 IESG Telechat date: Unknown Summary: Almost Ready Major Concerns: Section 1.2: A reference is needed for the "SPAKE algorithm" is needed here, even if it is a forward pointer to Section 2. Does this align with draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2? Are you aware of https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4018/? Minor Concerns: Abstract: Please explain "FAST", perhaps just a pointer to RFC 6113. Section 7 says: First, the hash function associated with the selected group is computed over the concatenation of the following values: A hash value is being computed, not a group. Nits: General: Please prepare for publication as an RFC by changing "this draft" to something that is appropriate for an archival series document. Section 1: In the first paragraph, we see: "preauthentication". Then, in the first paragraph of Section 1.1, we see "pre-authentication". Please pick one. Note: I did not try to compile the ASN.1 or run the python script. From nobody Tue May 19 11:39:21 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F265E3A0D32; Tue, 19 May 2020 11:39:18 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: kitten@ietf.org, kitten-chairs@ietf.org, kaduk@mit.edu, rharwood@redhat.com X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.130.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158991355769.26557.17344468865937566792@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 11:39:18 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] kitten - Not having a session at IETF 108 X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 18:39:19 -0000 Robbie Harwood, a chair of the kitten working group, indicated that the kitten working group does not plan to hold a session at IETF 108. This message was generated and sent by the IETF Meeting Session Request Tool. From nobody Tue May 19 12:06:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 835AA3A0D4A; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:06:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: , , X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.130.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <158991518148.7375.12454640265156865238@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 12:06:21 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] The KITTEN WG has placed draft-whited-kitten-password-storage in state "Adopted by a WG" X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 19:06:22 -0000 The KITTEN WG has placed draft-whited-kitten-password-storage in state Adopted by a WG (entered by Robbie Harwood) The document is available at https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-whited-kitten-password-storage/ Comment: A week has passed on the call for adoption, and we've had multiple voices in favor with none against. From nobody Tue May 19 12:11:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE2E93A0D52 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:11:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yAK5d594FzrR for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:11:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-1.mimecast.com [207.211.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 621DE3A0D50 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:11:20 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1589915479; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=5b1St4ZSC/rJacUNQAkgbwhFcvs+3Pkw7MVQOUqlnb0=; b=hmA9zF7nYHs2XGpc73vAUgZpHxRL6g7Mz3NcuYtDDIJux6M33S5XZLhRIFRkO/4JY5860j DjO4d/L13a10YB6b9NYlm6/Y0/0seIAa3XB2I2ncn64kPMPcluO2tdRsKS3da/b5LyzvpA S1wR7Tv8O7pkrs8Ct0DKzObyrwzVZvA= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-475-pKeJmYfWPsGnaF-rnK1CBQ-1; Tue, 19 May 2020 15:11:10 -0400 X-MC-Unique: pKeJmYfWPsGnaF-rnK1CBQ-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B3DD48015CF; Tue, 19 May 2020 19:11:09 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.26]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7859A707CD; Tue, 19 May 2020 19:11:09 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: kitten@ietf.org, Sam Whited In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:11:05 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.13 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Call for adoption on draft-whited-kitten-password-storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 19:11:22 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Robbie Harwood writes: > We've had some discussion about this in the "I-D: Best practices for > password hashing and storage", so here's a formal call. We are, to be > clear, discussing this document: > > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-whited-kitten-password-storage/ > > Beyond Sam, I believe there is expressed interest from Simon and Dave, > as well as potentially the XMPP Standards Foundation. kitten has now adopted this document. As a reminder, the name going forward should be something like draft-ietf-kitten-password-storage or so. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl7EL0kACgkQJTL5F2qV pEKJYg//ZwldGaDKGSDvL548lbGQqr3myj7SrazXamdg6mcLS9rjjXe2N+T9kw23 LGv0x/OQ33q5XLolpGy/lYjbNbGgWch0r4F85Sy+vMB1/BU7ydApffWQl1+wfIzf mI+N1gRxeead1S+/lrMqqIc9UtQH+uXIBZdLRut6KBEoJ94LvB4oLXuxPrwE07pE M2K9/3nG1mrzTtqluHZAC+9tvDTOfiGP+QjIQIbBW/CAsBy+dFoDdZPdaGVJsRZC GfcyWCibgzNFV2t/kjPv5rgaqbPy4qd4J+TP/aW1HSNchD2CQnZapCzEG7VR7pcw m0Li+G6rpOrzRqfhphw9DVNzUgSBfLQIZTdMngUD2d4UB3WlIbRZDxTma7DrifjK kXfXaqm18IYJgU2vCyY4gXPZwdS/0MrNf7dFlvx8/e/M3kfVaygomiz2CdM+miv7 dIPtI63CTGaxjNlpiJO61gIvYF8Oa424Hebf98Dbg0DOTLEXg18n7pNNwXC4TMAQ yrStTnJ9UOlTqYEzJpoW6m4D0tqZBOM3DPwsX2ObTFginBpjfGosmKS2PgORLVhv 8Z+5mzyIdvn+LkNcwZvpsJIeQ2yy05G0TtzuGMElRqOnso0YxdNdeW+RTxrT1eeR hkEqiI8DnSEokA2qNdE5U6ExRxavU9nj1f1hLg1JbmHFv7/I48k= =uWiO -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue May 19 12:34:52 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BD253A0D6F for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:34:50 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H3=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=samwhited.com header.b=qPBmWf6Y; dkim=pass (2048-bit key) header.d=messagingengine.com header.b=Wx7HWp7w Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RZq9eYnlB55O for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:34:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from out4-smtp.messagingengine.com (out4-smtp.messagingengine.com [66.111.4.28]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DBCF23A0D32 for ; 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Tue, 19 May 2020 15:34:47 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-464-g810d66a-fmstable-20200518v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <7a4400fe-8ad5-4ee1-9699-62ed632399ed@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 15:34:27 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "Robbie Harwood" , "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_adoption_on_draft-whited-kitten-pass?= =?utf-8?q?word-storage?= X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 19:34:51 -0000 Thanks! Does the source code hosting need to change now that the WG has adopted it (I know TLS has their own GitHub organization, I don't know if KITTEN does something similar) and should I reset the version number to 00 when we publish the next one, or just change it to draft-ietf- and continue to increment the version number from where it is now? On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 15:11, Robbie Harwood wrote: > kitten has now adopted this document. As a reminder, the name > going forward should be something like draft-ietf-kitten-password- > storage or so. -- Sam Whited From nobody Tue May 19 12:44:08 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE1E73A0D87 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:44:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Fp0DZJKavyJV for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (outgoing-auth-1.mit.edu [18.9.28.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 591013A0D80 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 12:44:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from kduck.mit.edu ([24.16.140.251]) (authenticated bits=56) (User authenticated as kaduk@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.14.7/8.12.4) with ESMTP id 04JJhu7n012290 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NOT); Tue, 19 May 2020 15:43:58 -0400 Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 12:43:55 -0700 From: Benjamin Kaduk To: Sam Whited Cc: Robbie Harwood , KITTEN Working Group Message-ID: <20200519194355.GP58497@kduck.mit.edu> References: <7a4400fe-8ad5-4ee1-9699-62ed632399ed@www.fastmail.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Disposition: inline In-Reply-To: <7a4400fe-8ad5-4ee1-9699-62ed632399ed@www.fastmail.com> User-Agent: Mutt/1.12.1 (2019-06-15) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Call for adoption on draft-whited-kitten-password-storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 19:44:07 -0000 On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 03:34:27PM -0400, Sam Whited wrote: > Thanks! Does the source code hosting need to change now that the WG has > adopted it (I know TLS has their own GitHub organization, I don't know > if KITTEN does something similar) and should I reset the version number KITTEN does have https://github.com/kittenwg though strictly speaking the hosting does not *need* to change. > to 00 when we publish the next one, or just change it to draft-ietf- and > continue to increment the version number from where it is now? Yes, start as a draft-ietf-kitten-...-00 again. Thanks, Ben > On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 15:11, Robbie Harwood wrote: > > kitten has now adopted this document. As a reminder, the name > > going forward should be something like draft-ietf-kitten-password- > > storage or so. > > > > > -- > Sam Whited > > _______________________________________________ > Kitten mailing list > Kitten@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/kitten From nobody Tue May 19 13:58:10 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 405B03A0A0A for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 13:58:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.102 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.102 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H2=-0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7ZuxBGtt79NR for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 13:58:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-1.mimecast.com [205.139.110.61]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B79683A099A for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 13:58:05 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1589921884; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=CFBBYC/y25M7YiC15cCLQl9OePuc+5cD74RbSFLwKrk=; b=C4HgQ+MMtBYBlp/eq77e1XqMry5ZmYDUFE/DfTSoBvwW20OJlv67bG+orP76lJZMTi+Tnf 2MqNrOCi1tYHQj41aDS5wyMtjFWw0M/FBiolmxWO+qTeVYZnyZuU9kPruz+8NKEQVtJI6e ezCf9LFEBhYr/CUZ6TNUboofh33ZqOU= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-446-lQTIIE31NfmqWT7WUjt8vA-1; Tue, 19 May 2020 16:58:00 -0400 X-MC-Unique: lQTIIE31NfmqWT7WUjt8vA-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx07.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.22]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C1CAF18FE860; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:57:59 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.26]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8AD3A1002394; Tue, 19 May 2020 20:57:59 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Benjamin Kaduk , Sam Whited Cc: KITTEN Working Group In-Reply-To: <20200519194355.GP58497@kduck.mit.edu> References: <7a4400fe-8ad5-4ee1-9699-62ed632399ed@www.fastmail.com> <20200519194355.GP58497@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 16:57:55 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 on 10.5.11.22 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Call for adoption on draft-whited-kitten-password-storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 20:58:08 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Benjamin Kaduk writes: > On Tue, May 19, 2020 at 03:34:27PM -0400, Sam Whited wrote: > >> Thanks! Does the source code hosting need to change now that the WG >> has adopted it (I know TLS has their own GitHub organization, I don't >> know if KITTEN does something similar) and should I reset the version >> number > > KITTEN does have https://github.com/kittenwg though strictly speaking the > hosting does not *need* to change. As I've learned to do from previous chairs, this has been used mostly for review tracking. So for instance, this document has corresponding repo https://github.com/kittenwg/password-storage I wouldn't be opposed to making it also hold the working state of the XML [1], but as Ben says, you don't have to change it. Thanks, --Robbie 1: If you *do* want it to hold the XML, poke me off-list and I'll set it up. --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl7ESFQACgkQJTL5F2qV pEKaKw/8C0lpRGDkbM1OksrJwwVi1Q/h6Qe2tYbDYqA1Pls/annubckQJotNaqFH WCmxf0Ry/qMx4zQeoRZTMBt8yco7hhc6Pl48foWwpG5LtQ2qbAHiOR6/U8MyZtTj D3NGq2+jkWjEU14go0BzHtxC9nlOYGc4GZru5vKtV4sjcbqOAFasGWqhWVNbPbSh u4rSXBVW1Su8nVyZNAMbtablLsK2flIbRfP7mX8mFWMzsGXfqVXjmwpOOiKykhAK x7JTUpKCWH/gQy/YLz4cmLtkc3y38ThUdmZVAdetinstkzdirLiRXcIbamXhzYQA P9m+r7lOC0pJAN79/xb3pyzKuFwFB7CvOGcb8NNVOgaVi9M0Cy73pzpWwmNLiYPE ozcrXtID8JS5K0F9IH8M3snDLgpcDzyWHjUhx7WixzLbYMFCcoks0ZUbXYLrvKn7 T2AqZg3oWzaeTCdZZa4P/r3xhMNUYJLLKprNzcuCydRL69xc1NKf1DVNhMiabFjz BlYI4xrLwOIKgXhAUbTi6gc7L9zvrO1K34qZAawnN3D9+sjd0Co93Hbcyaj7rVNY fwNgP4CnpCeEfjdvSKDDAgjE/oSSn/N1Jz1j4TbdwT9wTz4vwN+GSldj9G3OJvNP pDf7PNM+CE+sfJlaTqI4VSDxooQW9gO2lv2i/eT9Y8sKyYce9UY= =CC+u -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Tue May 19 14:03:56 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E1853A117D for ; 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Tue, 19 May 2020 17:03:42 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-464-g810d66a-fmstable-20200518v1 Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <26db0819-f16b-415b-924f-513ebec24105@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <7a4400fe-8ad5-4ee1-9699-62ed632399ed@www.fastmail.com> <20200519194355.GP58497@kduck.mit.edu> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 17:03:21 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "Robbie Harwood" , "Benjamin Kaduk" Cc: "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] =?utf-8?q?Call_for_adoption_on_draft-whited-kitten-pass?= =?utf-8?q?word-storage?= X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 21:03:53 -0000 On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 16:57, Robbie Harwood wrote: > As I've learned to do from previous chairs, this has been used mostly > for review tracking. So for instance, this document has corresponding= > repo https://github.com/kittenwg/password-storage Oh nifty, I didn't realize that this existed. As long as it doesn't hinder anyone else from contributing, I'm happy to leave the XML where it is then. People can always send me patches directly if they want me to apply them before releasing a new version. Thanks again for all your help. As always, if anyone has reviews or suggestions for the next version I'd= love to hear them. =E2=80=94Sam --=20 Sam Whited From nobody Tue May 19 14:12:30 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AB413A117D for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 14:12:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id U43yl-JROuZn for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 14:12:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-1.mimecast.com [207.211.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B66453A1179 for ; Tue, 19 May 2020 14:12:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1589922737; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=WrEbK4aKUFcx/6ndG90uljs8onB4ssnxQhPw8Xh5gT8=; b=jMcbhetm9BuoQ0m0zt7rAYv1cLnGpjqTfUq2Idf9z47Cl2Srcer76iGAewXi7u4+BwCWL8 TFqkqJ4ynUtRqassgzhw7Or7cSJBUFj2gU0KQqDuW5rrSbIfvgDUKkzUNhkkbX+QKNffPt C6lBbfO/MQInG4fQz8ZXU8kMbeDaSYE= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-273-Cp_iQ5EZP4O32QXVRpyXAA-1; Tue, 19 May 2020 17:12:13 -0400 X-MC-Unique: Cp_iQ5EZP4O32QXVRpyXAA-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D6B1C100CCC2; Tue, 19 May 2020 21:12:11 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.26]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9D39A707B1; Tue, 19 May 2020 21:12:11 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Sam Whited , Benjamin Kaduk Cc: KITTEN Working Group In-Reply-To: <26db0819-f16b-415b-924f-513ebec24105@www.fastmail.com> References: <7a4400fe-8ad5-4ee1-9699-62ed632399ed@www.fastmail.com> <20200519194355.GP58497@kduck.mit.edu> <26db0819-f16b-415b-924f-513ebec24105@www.fastmail.com> Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 17:12:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.13 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Call for adoption on draft-whited-kitten-password-storage X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 May 2020 21:12:29 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain "Sam Whited" writes: > On Tue, May 19, 2020, at 16:57, Robbie Harwood wrote: >> As I've learned to do from previous chairs, this has been used mostly >> for review tracking. So for instance, this document has corresponding >> repo https://github.com/kittenwg/password-storage > > Oh nifty, I didn't realize that this existed. As long as it doesn't > hinder anyone else from contributing, I'm happy to leave the XML where > it is then. People can always send me patches directly if they want me > to apply them before releasing a new version. Yeah, it's fine where it is. The idea here is that review/discussion happens in a public place - i.e., on this mailing list - and therefore it doesn't matter where the "development" version of the text lives since we're more concerned with the published, versioned edition. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl7ES6cACgkQJTL5F2qV pEIvxg//YzdNoc5yHQtr1c0JG6OmbreZE4uzixiWhizZVAJhxMRULtqCEmuw6OAX wog3y2yK7Pm8Rr3mSK+TIDD9Vkd7+LTDeMtmf7jr04UsaI5Q+9c1UFg51RIFgvxi Sfp4u3qbkG/3PqafttIHymcc9lA+CMYQAZ6SSkG4osol+BpigQS/5JBKUd4pum9q luNBsy1EIPdPhds1CpJWT6v9ET9r4FlGQxagrqr3e6f19TtGmUyzbYVHSp4+QcqL RAj8nunPMBwz10/9R8RKNOSURmM5OdV2bamdTqRYVN6QK4Ta52MERgZ3Rb8lqBKI 3KB62PY4ICSnNkDlyK5rZrj9xnMz2kNH4Ax0s6DyBKUVhQcZ6Rx1HipVxqOTpM7i 2Au+G35nAkbLDr3C8AfRNrkOAYk+5jHUurMDVSFASThazl4tTt/dbCCC1QlwTCNH V/PikRDTY/AohS3jW09pQ2YDruBkR923e3QMiT+C1y38sipb3+ilfalXradm2sxX hKFF7ZENztYna2QIhB5t0DkuYAgDCgivrskC1ln6jScYbeCaQhF2jIcOGOb0/+Yf pxEetwZzP3uCiV/p8MgjPKuO+nN8IzR4HtnBNNL7xsuzMMSQelpYPmQHkTktoArZ Hnb7rbQFvhmnI5yoGGCtOJBR+IcTGD2cbow6WIccmJ+ZaVRgyC8= =Ooie -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Wed May 20 08:30:25 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F12F33A0A67; Wed, 20 May 2020 08:30:13 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: kitten@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.130.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: kitten@ietf.org Message-ID: <158998861381.22340.15851820390589048711@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 08:30:13 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] I-D Action: draft-ietf-kitten-password-storage-00.txt X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 15:30:14 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Authentication Technology Next Generation WG of the IETF. Title : Best practices for password hashing and storage Author : Sam Whited Filename : draft-ietf-kitten-password-storage-00.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2020-05-20 Abstract: This document outlines best practices for handling user passwords and other authenticator secrets in client-server systems making use of SASL. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-kitten-password-storage/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-kitten-password-storage-00 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-kitten-password-storage-00 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Wed May 20 21:46:43 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietf.org Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7773A0AD5; Wed, 20 May 2020 21:46:41 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: Cc: kitten@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 7.0.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Reply-To: kitten@ietf.org Message-ID: <159003640120.31696.5843918676990178699@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 20 May 2020 21:46:41 -0700 Archived-At: Subject: [kitten] I-D Action: draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-08.txt X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 04:46:42 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Common Authentication Technology Next Generation WG of the IETF. Title : SPAKE Pre-Authentication Authors : Nathaniel McCallum Simo Sorce Robbie Harwood Greg Hudson Filename : draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-08.txt Pages : 37 Date : 2020-05-20 Abstract: This document defines a new pre-authentication mechanism for the Kerberos protocol that uses a password authenticated key exchange. This document has three goals. First, increase the security of Kerberos pre-authentication exchanges by making offline brute-force attacks infeasible. Second, enable the use of second factor authentication without relying on FAST. This is achieved using the existing trust relationship established by the shared first factor. Third, make Kerberos pre-authentication more resilient against time synchronization errors by removing the need to transfer an encrypted timestamp from the client. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth/ There are also htmlized versions available at: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-08 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Thu May 21 16:00:16 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7BC273A0C50 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 16:00:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.099 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.099 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id v05p4FZdmd_w for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 16:00:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-delivery-1.mimecast.com [205.139.110.120]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 216653A0C51 for ; Thu, 21 May 2020 16:00:13 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1590102012; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=j8UM3B9WczrGBM7xL0EJoMu2UBYkc2s5fYNqFoW1scw=; b=XNxyTaw6U21J7HZz+ngN2crva4UMyI1LBTj5h7WLWu9lGSBrv988u8r/ERG+bxT+mtggUa sFzah8VUBRflhhVRRR8yDZV6ybIWLaXjVHGWUD77JMqWkZHdHcOj7W1FJa46TESONJBPvg 9jeb4t5c0a1qtDcP2IbLuGFp2ZVKd9k= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-344-lpi6tLoGN-6nfXM7p273mg-1; Thu, 21 May 2020 19:00:09 -0400 X-MC-Unique: lpi6tLoGN-6nfXM7p273mg-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx03.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.13]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9E583107ACF5; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:00:08 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.45]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5E40370950; Thu, 21 May 2020 23:00:08 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Sam Whited , Alexey Melnikov Cc: KITTEN Working Group In-Reply-To: References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 19:00:07 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.13 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 23:00:15 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Robbie Harwood writes: > Sam Whited writes: >> Robbie Harwood wrote: >> >>> (Chair/obnoxious process hat on) I think it would be best to have a >>> formalized call for adoption in kitten - that's a separate email >>> with "call for adoption" and the thing to adopt in the subject. >>> What I've observed so far is interest in the document existing (and >>> willingness to work on it), but not specifically in kitten. We'll >>> let that simmer about a week, and then if there's consensus, we can >>> adopt. >> >> Thanks for your help. Is that an email I should send when I figure >> out whether this belongs in TLS or KITTEN, or should I ask someone >> else to issue the call, perhaps the chair? >> >> Today I've been thinking that this really depends on whether the >> draft is SCRAM specific or not. If it is, this might be a better >> place to take on the work, if not, the TLS WG might be >> better. Although if it's not SCRAM specific it probably doesn't >> matter where it lives because the I-D becomes almost trivial, it's >> just instructions for IANA to register two labels in a registry so >> that the existing TLS channel binding mechanism can be used from >> SASL. > > To provide an update here: conversation with TLS is ongoing and we are > waiting to hear back at this time. Consensus from the TLS chairs seems to be a preference for work to occur in Kitten, though we should make sure that TLS folks review it. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl7HB/cACgkQJTL5F2qV pELoqA//Z1vna8RIzqYSHb6r8GP4PYOheb2wpe3NsBIVK11XDNp5M1Ui6ExBNqiz 4Hj091rni5Bt6uW3Vo6GP4Hsxg8ar6ih9MD3NbZlk1GbJdWs8gc2WmYjA+IuyYZ5 HpX7ErkMdEnicQKJZ0Qz6zUGiZLLsYuXuFuikjGaXmvGDnzCtPU+ST9/C5wke046 3w9b8vq2/HkQqyur7Z4rH2KXNsQIwI7G811gjLnKsN7CDG4s+L8s8vjLd7AK29C4 7ssSbWGdfAip91mIcl7cao1iu9zBD776bNqkEaiJdBxVzkpcDPb3QggEpQdYOh37 htV5bNAsFPrnf0ZXJJxhjsveKVtTFI5lJELmLuWbvpNAB0+GgNTHxUpxcsufeBu2 Q4bMzMGdjUqc9+K7uDgJ9bWwsbO4rXOw1XxZfY9uVW95Kv0hgFvvmb+YMnifGVuP cPsqFTzazrhtd7Nv/cWzUR2aN0F4rZanHn1nZMwZ8ju4LoK6S5vu3aGZMfSPVyLU A0l8bvZUCBpCYtyiMFecTWlFnFnRfS3fMoUFDL2Ck99RYS801FqjiOwsUJfVr391 QZ4u8WwOvNz8ZGH3WMPl14oZVmEpGN1wxaobfCS/9bbm22eK4eVGHrdRruKxCP5E BsgFbPbdXesrOHL1LIbhr/G1+/2Z0Vowoaf8bXhhy3Q8HXGvZ2I= =Zmyp -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Thu May 21 16:02:33 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 56BD93A0C93 for ; 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Thu, 21 May 2020 19:02:26 -0400 (EDT) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.3.0-dev0-487-g38013f6-fm-20200519.001-g38013f6c Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <10caec4c-2b6c-4602-8bf5-5d74ac1c1fa7@www.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: References: <85d7fb9a-92f7-4b5a-bb20-bb9cfeeae67d@www.fastmail.com> <3d1e7257-004c-aabf-a259-6e532259c78e@isode.com> <80f32eca-9625-4c16-872f-5b0edb975483@www.fastmail.com> Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 19:02:06 -0400 From: "Sam Whited" To: "Robbie Harwood" , "Alexey Melnikov" Cc: "KITTEN Working Group" Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] TLS export for channel binding X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 May 2020 23:02:32 -0000 On Thu, May 21, 2020, at 19:00, Robbie Harwood wrote: > Consensus from the TLS chairs seems to be a preference for work to > occur in Kitten, though we should make sure that TLS folks review it. This works for me. Would you be willing to issue a formal call for adoption on this one as well Robbie? Thanks! =E2=80=94Sam --=20 Sam Whited From nobody Thu May 28 15:27:34 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79B7C3A0C9F for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:27:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.098 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.098 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.001, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_EF=-0.1, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_H4=0.001, RCVD_IN_MSPIKE_WL=0.001, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=redhat.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2fsdr7enWOa7 for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from us-smtp-1.mimecast.com (us-smtp-2.mimecast.com [207.211.31.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B820B3A0C9A for ; Thu, 28 May 2020 15:27:30 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=redhat.com; s=mimecast20190719; t=1590704849; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=XM2oi5069fAaBqDsYLsbYlxR214ikN1R6m1sOrMTiFo=; b=c5jEEFnJebsloraMj+UScTki6Y6J9Z7IiKnvwEWAz/AK7xx7E07e0Df67zM1FapcKP0qJ0 WMgTI3vV5LyTTz9MWExWI2wjjCVtB85cxoXct8pqo8cPDGG5y/vjUgc21XEoAdv5ewpWxZ OOhUnVZhjrSc4XWXB7f4Biiy+8coW0s= Received: from mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (mimecast-mx01.redhat.com [209.132.183.4]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id us-mta-21-qWzGNmq6OGSwHZjyIM_h5g-1; Thu, 28 May 2020 18:27:24 -0400 X-MC-Unique: qWzGNmq6OGSwHZjyIM_h5g-1 Received: from smtp.corp.redhat.com (int-mx04.intmail.prod.int.phx2.redhat.com [10.5.11.14]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mimecast-mx01.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 807CC464; Thu, 28 May 2020 22:27:23 +0000 (UTC) Received: from localhost (unknown [10.10.110.49]) by smtp.corp.redhat.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0CCF75D9CD; Thu, 28 May 2020 22:27:22 +0000 (UTC) From: Robbie Harwood To: Russ Housley , gen-art@ietf.org Cc: kitten@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth.all@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <158956185809.27642.15651397749101904532@ietfa.amsl.com> References: <158956185809.27642.15651397749101904532@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 18:27:19 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.79 on 10.5.11.14 X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: redhat.com Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="=-=-="; micalg=pgp-sha512; protocol="application/pgp-signature" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-07 X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 May 2020 22:27:33 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Russ Housley via Datatracker writes: > Reviewer: Russ Housley > Review result: Almost Ready > > I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area > Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by > the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like > any other last call comments. Hi Russ, thanks for the review. Changes should be present in -08 unless discussed further below. > Major Concerns: > > Does this align with draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2? It's derived from it, though they no longer totally align. > Are you aware of https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4018/? I have seen it, but as Watson Ladd put it in https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/senXefqczpUZo26B35ekz8d3iLo/ I=E2=80=99m not a patent lawyer, and cannot speculate on any IPR confli= cts that may or may not exist. > Minor Concerns: > > Abstract: Please explain "FAST", perhaps just a pointer to RFC 6113. We believe this is covered by the "Document conventions" section. Thanks, --Robbie --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEA5qc6hnelQjDaHWqJTL5F2qVpEIFAl7QOsgACgkQJTL5F2qV pEIRChAAjCcKeSkisRoYVPfbAgcyR6LB6wEoiel0f5UlO7HWD8tD0DYvExLFBuYy Vca3vZN9Dl2QtZ7xYZ87PoiuEr01jIYSErNszVZo2Bn7LAdfLYEE/jd64pVasyED ou5RSNlLeJJLJCpYgzYUhATppOxsmcaHlNSPJN2Ox9kmO3hYYg151b5Ik1V7Cnu8 /u2FlVPyt1mo20AArkToK2sNWPWmtkO68xHuy99Y1a/Qd3j8vsPcWnHEI+wuXRDM bPTbo0BuvSjYQfPhrEZSl0fXf2DIlZxa/TsbWFFTnuvR1UdtU/I1I5/Cy0uCL1Ys HKRDMN0caQemxa4BuThELETArj+wQcE2Nz2MxWZoKdd1D9JwsaArI8m4q6hYHiq5 VrOTtIE9C4AXsAMAH5EqjlGHSLx5QBtbEGjKCzakQc+5jiy2BfLVOFnT2RZjJKSg TI1BMLy8/CS2YQ1lTD6pJDhsZM6vq7nK0/H+Kp3jONSigv+Skyw7CScR7PfoDGST drQjcvNSM9SMvQ2A4OPxSwcHVWpn3bcx6+Yzc/2e8odrTSTq7H7+whOFYtEqMzBD e1vemq6at6swB2fzcUdZ1MDf2sI/ch+ClZ4QfxnnTAr8z5R4QZXb9qVTXKCRZ0bD VHoYHf6tEbuHrHnh1QPxWSnKB8Q+JDdzirGHwbhujXh32N0BkU0= =Zn0C -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=-- From nobody Fri May 29 07:20:23 2020 Return-Path: X-Original-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: kitten@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D40703A0915 for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:20:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.897 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.897 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=unavailable autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WjJZ18e1x-Bq for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail.smeinc.net (mail.smeinc.net [209.135.209.11]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 90F5F3A090F for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 07:20:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29B04300B6A for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 10:10:21 -0400 (EDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at mail.smeinc.net Received: from mail.smeinc.net ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (mail.smeinc.net [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10026) with ESMTP id OepOB4dP5mIe for ; Fri, 29 May 2020 10:10:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from a860b60074bd.fios-router.home (pool-72-66-113-56.washdc.fios.verizon.net [72.66.113.56]) by mail.smeinc.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id B4715300A31; Fri, 29 May 2020 10:10:18 -0400 (EDT) From: Russ Housley Message-Id: <7B24DD80-0A21-41F1-8E6A-CDE6279F0350@vigilsec.com> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_45A482BB-902F-4A9A-A472-312F99CAA41D"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha1 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.14\)) Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 10:10:19 -0400 In-Reply-To: Cc: IETF Gen-ART , kitten@ietf.org, last-call@ietf.org, draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth.all@ietf.org To: Robbie Harwood References: <158956185809.27642.15651397749101904532@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.14) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [kitten] [Last-Call] Genart last call review of draft-ietf-kitten-krb-spake-preauth-07 X-BeenThere: kitten@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Common Authentication Technologies - Next Generation List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 May 2020 14:20:22 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_45A482BB-902F-4A9A-A472-312F99CAA41D Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On May 28, 2020, at 6:27 PM, Robbie Harwood = wrote: >=20 > Signed PGP part > Russ Housley via Datatracker writes: >=20 >> Reviewer: Russ Housley >> Review result: Almost Ready >>=20 >> I am the assigned Gen-ART reviewer for this draft. The General Area >> Review Team (Gen-ART) reviews all IETF documents being processed by >> the IESG for the IETF Chair. Please treat these comments just like >> any other last call comments. >=20 > Hi Russ, thanks for the review. Changes should be present in -08 = unless > discussed further below. >=20 >> Major Concerns: >>=20 >> Does this align with draft-irtf-cfrg-spake2? >=20 > It's derived from it, though they no longer totally align. >=20 >> Are you aware of https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/4018/? >=20 > I have seen it, but as Watson Ladd put it in > = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/cfrg/senXefqczpUZo26B35ekz8d3iLo/ >=20 > I=E2=80=99m not a patent lawyer, and cannot speculate on any IPR = conflicts > that may or may not exist. If these documents do not align, then another 3rd party disclosure = should be made against this document, so the IPR holder can weigh in. >> Minor Concerns: >>=20 >> Abstract: Please explain "FAST", perhaps just a pointer to RFC 6113. >=20 > We believe this is covered by the "Document conventions" section. In my opinion, something needs to be in the Abstract. Otherwise, the = Abstract is not stand alone. Russ --Apple-Mail=_45A482BB-902F-4A9A-A472-312F99CAA41D Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=signature.asc Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name=signature.asc Content-Description: Message signed with OpenPGP -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Comment: GPGTools - http://gpgtools.org iF0EARECAB0WIQRJuTEKFXbtfFQz5huK5O7Q9ZwRywUCXtEXywAKCRCK5O7Q9ZwR ywglAJ42pVyzhkkHusSpXKAfSjdhrdZ2egCgjg21x+FQ3x7o/FMmGsTcR9Am32M= =lO9g -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --Apple-Mail=_45A482BB-902F-4A9A-A472-312F99CAA41D--