From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 1 00:31:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA00853 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:31:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Ydl-0003im-SS for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:31:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h914V5VF014298 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:31:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Ydl-0003iX-NC for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:31:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA00839 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:30:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Ydj-0001kw-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:31:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4Ydi-0001ks-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:31:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4Ydi-0003hn-Tb; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:31:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4YdY-0003gt-U3 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:30:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA00827 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 00:30:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4YdW-0001kc-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:30:50 -0400 Received: from bay2-f79.bay2.hotmail.com ([65.54.247.79] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4YdV-0001kJ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 00:30:49 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 30 Sep 2003 21:30:19 -0700 Received: from 66.7.144.1 by by2fd.bay2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 04:30:19 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.7.144.1] X-Originating-Email: [tsenevir@hotmail.com] From: "Tissa Senevirathne" To: Sasha@AXERRA.com Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2003 04:30:19 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Oct 2003 04:30:19.0832 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8B6F380:01C387D4] Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sasha and all, Flowing are the key diference I can see in draft-tsenevir when compared to draft-heinanen. draft-tsenevir - 1. Treat VPLS decoupled from the L2TP tunnel creations' 2. Assumes VPLS instance can have multiple VLAN and provide oeprations to add/remove VLAN to the VPLS without creating new VPLS instances 3. Allow methods for originating PE to request, selectively, acknowledgments to a VPLS related operation of interest. 4. Use of Request-Response model allow originator to receive status of remote VPLS operations at the VPLS layer. 5. My personal opinion, architecture presented here in draft-tsenevir is modular and easy to integrate with L2TP. Also, I personally think, it is better RADIUS discovery is independent fro signaling protocols. So it can be used with RSVP and like wise protocols. >From: Sasha Vainshtein >To: 'Tissa Senevirathne' >CC: l2vpn@ietf.org >Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:47:16 +0200 > >Tissa and all, >I have tried to compare your draft with >draft-heinanen-radius-l2tp-vpls-00.txt. > >My first observation is that draft-heinanen support VPLS operation >(subject to some auto-discovery mechanism which is out of scope >of L2TP) without introducing any extensions to the basic L2TP level. >IMO, the approach used in this draft can be used with any auto-discovery >mechanism (direc tory-based, BGP-based etc.) with minimal changes. >(Of course,I can be wrong here:-) > >Hence I would like to understand the rationale for far-reaching changes >to L2TP proposed in your draft. > >---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >-------- >With best regards, > Sasha Vainshtein >email: sasha@axerra.com >phone: +972-3-7659993 (office) > +972-8-9254948 (home) > +972-58-674833 (cellular) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:34 AM > > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > > > > > > > > ID below present use of L2TP base signaling for VPLS. Work in > > this ID is > > presented as complimentary to other work currently in > > progress at WG level. > > > > I appreciate your comments and feedback > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tsenevir-l2tp-vpls-00.txt > > > > Tissa > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month > > (depending on the local service providers in your area). > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming attachments. Get Hotmail Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 1 03:41:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01554 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:41:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4bbg-0006gF-LX for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:41:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h917f8gv025666 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:41:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4bbf-0006fs-LR for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:41:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01535 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:41:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4bbd-0003UP-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:41:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4bbc-0003UM-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:41:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4bbb-0006f0-Tx; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:41:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A4bau-0006dY-Go for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:40:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA01514 for ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 03:40:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4bas-0003To-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:40:18 -0400 Received: from [80.74.100.67] (helo=antivir2) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A4bar-0003TU-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 01 Oct 2003 03:40:17 -0400 Received: from 192.168.254.14 by antivir2 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Wed, 01 Oct 2003 10:42:23 +0200 Received: by TLV1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:34:15 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sasha Vainshtein To: "'Tissa Senevirathne'" Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:34:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-8" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Tissa and all, Please see some answers inline. With best regards, Sasha Vainshtein email: sasha@axerra.com tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) +972-8-9254948 (res.) +972-58-674833 (cell.) > -----Original Message----- > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:30 AM > To: Sasha Vainshtein > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > Sasha and all, > > Flowing are the key diference I can see in draft-tsenevir > when compared to > draft-heinanen. > > draft-tsenevir - > > 1. Treat VPLS decoupled from the L2TP tunnel creations' > I do not ubderstand how this decupling can work. Please consider the following scenario: 1. There are 3 PEs (PE1, PE2, and PE3) 2. There are 3 VPLS instances (V1, V2 and V3) 3. Initially, these instances are distributed between the PEs like following: a) V1 is instanciated in PE1 and PE2 b) V2 and V3 are isnanciated both in PE2 and PE3 c) Consequently, there is no need for an L2TP tunnel (control connection) between PE1 and PE3, since there is no VPLS traffic between them 4. When V2 is additionally instanciated in PE1, there is a need to establish an L2TP tunnel serving the VPLS application between PE1 and PE3 (and then to establish an appropriate L2TP session to carry the data). How can this be achieved if "tunnel creation is decoupled from the VPLS operation?" > > 2. Assumes VPLS instance can have multiple VLAN and provide > operations to > add/remove VLAN to the VPLS without creating new VPLS instances > I do not understand why this cannot be achieved in draft-heinanen. (IMO, adding a VLAN to a VPLS instance affects only the data plane of the VPLS. Is this understanding incorect?) > > 3. Allow methods for originating PE to request, selectively, > acknowledgments to a VPLS related operation of interest. > Sorry, I do not understand that. Can you give a specific example? > > 4. Use of Request-Response model allow originator to receive > status of remote VPLS operations at the VPLS layer. > Do you mean that you do not rely on the reliable transport used by the auto-discovery and/or signaling protocols? > > 5. My personal opinion, architecture presented here in > draft-tsenevir is > modular and easy to integrate with L2TP. > IMHO, the fact that this architecture requires additions at the BASE L2TP level somewhat contradicts my notion of "easy integration with L2TP". > > Also, I personally think, it is better RADIUS discovery is > independent fro > signaling protocols. So it can be used with RSVP and like > wise protocols. > IMO, RADIUS discovery can be used with different signaling protocols (e.g., with LDP). I do not understand the reference to RSVP, since, to the best of my knowledge, it is not used for the PW signaling today. > > >From: Sasha Vainshtein > >To: 'Tissa Senevirathne' > >CC: l2vpn@ietf.org > >Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:47:16 +0200 > > > >Tissa and all, > >I have tried to compare your draft with > >draft-heinanen-radius-l2tp-vpls-00.txt. > > > >My first observation is that draft-heinanen support VPLS operation > >(subject to some auto-discovery mechanism which is out of scope > >of L2TP) without introducing any extensions to the basic L2TP level. > >IMO, the approach used in this draft can be used with any > auto-discovery > >mechanism (direc tory-based, BGP-based etc.) with minimal changes. > >(Of course,I can be wrong here:-) > > > >Hence I would like to understand the rationale for > far-reaching changes > >to L2TP proposed in your draft. > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > --------------- > >-------- > >With best regards, > > Sasha Vainshtein > >email: sasha@axerra.com > >phone: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > +972-8-9254948 (home) > > +972-58-674833 (cellular) > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:34 AM > > > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > > Subject: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ID below present use of L2TP base signaling for VPLS. Work in > > > this ID is > > > presented as complimentary to other work currently in > > > progress at WG level. > > > > > > I appreciate your comments and feedback > > > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tsenevir-l2tp-vpls-00.txt > > > > > > Tissa > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month > > > (depending on the local service providers in your area). > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming > attachments. Get Hotmail > Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 11:09:47 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24585 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:09:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A554y-0005Es-J0 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:09:26 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92F9KAq020134 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:09:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A554y-0005Ef-Dg for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:09:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24484 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:09:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A554v-0001lT-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:09:17 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A554v-0001lP-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:09:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A554f-0005Bh-5t; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:09:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A554I-0005Ao-TF for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:08:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA24417 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:08:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A554G-0001jh-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:08:36 -0400 Received: from smtp4.hy.skanova.net ([195.67.199.133]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A554F-0001jd-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:08:35 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp4.hy.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92F8TJg021399; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:08:29 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F7C3F6F.8040501@pi.se> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:08:31 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l2vpn@ietf.org CC: "Vach Kompella" , Rick Wilder , Thomas Narten Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. There has been a debate for some time about which and how many VPLS solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This started back in the PPVPN and several suggestions on how to go forward have been offered. Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework c. Virtual Private LAN Service d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS The CE-based solution is not included in the working group charter. Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!", groups that are very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group that says "Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the market and let the market decide!" We have discussed how to define working group consensus and find a way forward, that is acceptable both for the working group and for the IETF as a standards organization. These are our conclusions: The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been documented in the working group meetings and on the mailing list. We will not progress this solution further. However, there are interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with authors of the other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other solutions documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under "normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they would have been accepted as working group documents and rapidly progressed to Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not large, however they have taken their starting point in two different networking scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks based on routers that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, while (d) takes as a starting point that it shall be possible to run also on equipment that do not have all those protocols available or deployable. We have therefore decided that there is enough support in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a delta between them that the working group should progress both solutions to proposed standard. In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: - that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little support and on the other is not within charter, and will therfor not be considered as an option for the working group vpls solution. - that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls - that there are interesting parts and discussion within this draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own right - that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed towards Proposed Standard in their own right - that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the differences between these two solutions Vach Rick Loa -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 11:23:07 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26069 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:23:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55Hs-00065v-Kh for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:22:46 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92FMesO023423 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:22:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55Hs-00065i-ET for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:22:40 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA26049 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:22:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55HF-00060J-A0; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:22:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A55GH-0005tw-RR for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:21:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA25955 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 11:20:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A55GG-00027r-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:21:00 -0400 Received: from [80.74.100.67] (helo=antivir2) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A55GC-00026Z-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 11:20:57 -0400 Received: from 192.168.254.14 by antivir2 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 02 Oct 2003 18:19:57 +0200 Received: by TLV1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:11:47 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sasha Vainshtein To: "'Loa Andersson'" Cc: Vach Kompella , Rick Wilder , Thomas Narten , l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 18:11:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-8" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Loa and all, May I ask why the directory-based VPLS approach (proposed by Juha Heinanen) has been left out of even the initial list? With best regards, Sasha Vainshtein email: sasha@axerra.com tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) +972-8-9254948 (res.) +972-58-674833 (cell.) > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:09 PM > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten > Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > > > > L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. > > There has been a debate for some time about which and how many VPLS > solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This started > back in the > PPVPN and several suggestions > on how to go forward have been offered. > > Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: > > a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN > > > b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework > > > c. Virtual Private LAN Service > > > d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS > > > The CE-based solution is not included in the working group charter. > > Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and > they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should > proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a > smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!", groups that > are very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group that > says "Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the market > and let the market decide!" > > We have discussed how to define working group consensus and find > a way forward, that is acceptable both for the working group and > for the IETF as a standards organization. > > These are our conclusions: > > > The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been > documented in the working group meetings and on the mailing list. > We will not progress this solution further. However, there are > interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on > scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with authors of > the other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other solutions > documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. > > The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under > "normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they would have > been accepted as working group documents and rapidly progressed to > Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. > > The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not large, > however they have taken their starting point in two different > networking scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks > based on routers that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, > while (d) takes as a starting point that it shall be possible to > run also on equipment that do not have all those protocols available > or deployable. We have therefore decided that there is enough support > in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a > delta between them that the working group should progress > both solutions > to proposed standard. > > > In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: > > - that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little > support and on the other is not within charter, and will therfor > not be considered as an option for the working group vpls > solution. > > - that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE > Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be > a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls > > - that there are interesting parts and discussion within this > draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the > working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own > right > > - that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual Private LAN > Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed > towards Proposed Standard in their own right > > - that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the > differences between these two solutions > > > Vach Rick Loa > > > -- > Loa Andersson > > Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 > Email loa@pi.se > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 12:39:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00027 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:39:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A56Tq-000334-8K for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:39:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92Gd6xF011712 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:39:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A56Tq-00032p-4F for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:39:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29964 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A56To-0003Ke-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:39:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A56To-0003KZ-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:39:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A56Tl-0002za-CR; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:39:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A56TL-0002yJ-4g for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:38:35 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29949; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 12:38:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A56TJ-0003KE-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:38:33 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A56TI-0003Jp-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:38:32 -0400 Received: from rcallon-lt.juniper.net (securepptp071.static.jnpr.net [172.24.253.71]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h92Gc0j39040; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcallon@juniper.net) Message-Id: <4.3.2.20031002122810.01425db0@zircon.juniper.net> X-Sender: rcallon@zircon.juniper.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 12:37:43 -0400 To: l3vpn@ietf.org, l2vpn@ietf.org From: Ross Callon Subject: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , We would like to solicit comments on accepting draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt as an l3vpn working group document. Note that the terminology in this draft covers both L2 and L3 vpns, and that the document is referenced in the l2vpn framework. The draft was presented to the ppvpn wg twice, both times with quite a bit of support. In part the reason that this wasn't made a working group draft was because Loa and others pondered what to do with it. Since it is now referenced in the l2-framework we need to either progress the terminology draft (presumably in the direction of an informational draft), or do considerable editing to the l2vpn framework. I am told that it is this terminology draft that holds the l2-framework at the moment. thanks, Ross >Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt >Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 07:35:58 -0400 >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >To: IETF-Announce: ; > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. > > > Title : PPVPN Terminology > Author(s) : L. Andersson, T. Madsen > Filename : draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt > Pages : 21 > Date : 2003-10-1 > >The provider provisioned VPN solutions has attracted a great deal >of interest. Memos proposing different and overlapping solution >have been discussed on the PPVPN mailing list and in the Working >Group meetings. This has lead to a development of a partly new >set of concepts used to describe the set of VPN services. To a >certain extent there are more than one term covering the same >concept and sometimes the same term covers more than on concept. >The terminology needs to be made clearer and more intuitive. This >document seeks to fill at least part of that need. > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt > >To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:30:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14952 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:30:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57HA-0005bh-K7 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:30:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92HU4dc021547 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:30:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57HA-0005bS-Fw for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:30:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14935 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:29:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57H8-0003qu-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:30:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57H8-0003qr-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:30:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57H8-0005an-Ew; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:30:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57GC-0005Sf-7S for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:29:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA14872 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:28:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57GA-0003pa-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:29:02 -0400 Received: from bay2-f84.bay2.hotmail.com ([65.54.247.84] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57G9-0003pC-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:29:01 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:28:31 -0700 Received: from 63.251.106.30 by by2fd.bay2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:28:30 GMT X-Originating-IP: [63.251.106.30] X-Originating-Email: [tsenevir@hotmail.com] From: "Tissa Senevirathne" To: Sasha@AXERRA.com Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:28:30 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Oct 2003 17:28:31.0254 (UTC) FILETIME=[99624B60:01C3890A] Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sesha Even before we analyse the scenario you presented. Suppose we have a VPLS with PE1 and PE2 with a single VLAN spanning. Now a new PE3 is added to the domain. How will that new PE3 will be added to the VPLS in draft-heinen or other proposals ? So with draft-tsenevir ; adding a VLAN to the VPLS is exactly the same steps. draft-tsenevir is decoupling the tunnels. Hence, it will setup the tunnel, followed by adding VPLS instance and adding VLAN, These steps can be extended equally when a PEx or VLANy is removed from the VPLS. >From: Sasha Vainshtein >To: "'Tissa Senevirathne'" >CC: l2vpn@ietf.org >Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:34:14 +0200 > >Tissa and all, >Please see some answers inline. > >With best regards, > Sasha Vainshtein >email: sasha@axerra.com >tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:30 AM > > To: Sasha Vainshtein > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > > > > Sasha and all, > > > > Flowing are the key diference I can see in draft-tsenevir > > when compared to > > draft-heinanen. > > > > draft-tsenevir - > > > > 1. Treat VPLS decoupled from the L2TP tunnel creations' > > >I do not ubderstand how this decupling can work. Please consider >the following scenario: >1. There are 3 PEs (PE1, PE2, and PE3) >2. There are 3 VPLS instances (V1, V2 and V3) >3. Initially, these instances are distributed between the PEs like > following: > a) V1 is instanciated in PE1 and PE2 > b) V2 and V3 are isnanciated both in PE2 and PE3 > c) Consequently, there is no need for an L2TP tunnel > (control connection) between PE1 and PE3, since there > is no VPLS traffic between them >4. When V2 is additionally instanciated in PE1, there is a > need to establish an L2TP tunnel serving the VPLS application > between PE1 and PE3 (and then to establish an appropriate > L2TP session to carry the data). > How can this be achieved if "tunnel creation is > decoupled from the VPLS operation?" > > > > 2. Assumes VPLS instance can have multiple VLAN and provide > > operations to > > add/remove VLAN to the VPLS without creating new VPLS instances > > >I do not understand why this cannot be achieved in draft-heinanen. >(IMO, adding a VLAN to a VPLS instance affects only the data plane >of the VPLS. Is this understanding incorect?) > > > > 3. Allow methods for originating PE to request, selectively, > > acknowledgments to a VPLS related operation of interest. > > >Sorry, I do not understand that. Can you give a specific example? > > > > 4. Use of Request-Response model allow originator to receive > > status of remote VPLS operations at the VPLS layer. > > >Do you mean that you do not rely on the reliable transport >used by the auto-discovery and/or signaling protocols? > > > > 5. My personal opinion, architecture presented here in > > draft-tsenevir is > > modular and easy to integrate with L2TP. > > >IMHO, the fact that this architecture requires additions >at the BASE L2TP level somewhat contradicts my notion of >"easy integration with L2TP". > > > > Also, I personally think, it is better RADIUS discovery is > > independent fro > > signaling protocols. So it can be used with RSVP and like > > wise protocols. > > >IMO, RADIUS discovery can be used with different signaling >protocols (e.g., with LDP). I do not understand the reference >to RSVP, since, to the best of my knowledge, it is not used for >the PW signaling today. > > > > >From: Sasha Vainshtein > > >To: 'Tissa Senevirathne' > > >CC: l2vpn@ietf.org > > >Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:47:16 +0200 > > > > > >Tissa and all, > > >I have tried to compare your draft with > > >draft-heinanen-radius-l2tp-vpls-00.txt. > > > > > >My first observation is that draft-heinanen support VPLS operation > > >(subject to some auto-discovery mechanism which is out of scope > > >of L2TP) without introducing any extensions to the basic L2TP level. > > >IMO, the approach used in this draft can be used with any > > auto-discovery > > >mechanism (direc tory-based, BGP-based etc.) with minimal changes. > > >(Of course,I can be wrong here:-) > > > > > >Hence I would like to understand the rationale for > > far-reaching changes > > >to L2TP proposed in your draft. > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > > --------------- > > >-------- > > >With best regards, > > > Sasha Vainshtein > > >email: sasha@axerra.com > > >phone: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > > +972-8-9254948 (home) > > > +972-58-674833 (cellular) > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > > > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:34 AM > > > > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > > > Subject: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ID below present use of L2TP base signaling for VPLS. Work in > > > > this ID is > > > > presented as complimentary to other work currently in > > > > progress at WG level. > > > > > > > > I appreciate your comments and feedback > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tsenevir-l2tp-vpls-00.txt > > > > > > > > Tissa > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as $29.95/month > > > > (depending on the local service providers in your area). > > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming > > attachments. Get Hotmail > > Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > > _________________________________________________________________ Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:40:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15495 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Qq-0006hz-V9 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92He4vF025698 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Qp-0006fn-Cm for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15459 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Qn-0003zX-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Qm-0003zU-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Qn-0006en-Eb; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Ps-0006aK-B6 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:39:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15377 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:38:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Pq-0003yF-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:39:02 -0400 Received: from [80.74.100.67] (helo=antivir2) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Pp-0003xr-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:39:01 -0400 Received: from 192.168.254.14 by antivir2 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 02 Oct 2003 20:41:08 +0200 Received: by TLV1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:32:58 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sasha Vainshtein To: "'Tissa Senevirathne'" Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 20:32:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-8" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Tissa, Please see inline. With best regards, Sasha Vainshtein email: sasha@axerra.com tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) +972-8-9254948 (res.) +972-58-674833 (cell.) > -----Original Message----- > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 7:29 PM > To: Sasha Vainshtein > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > Sesha > > Even before we analyse the scenario you presented. Suppose > we have a VPLS > with PE1 and PE2 with a single VLAN spanning. Now a new PE3 > is added to the > domain. > IMO, the question should be "how should the same VPLS instance be added to PE3?" Drafts-heinanen (draft-heinanen-radius-pe-discovery-04.txt and draft-heinanen-radius-l2tp-vpls-00.txt) provide an answer: - PE3 registers itself as a member in the VPLS in question in the directory (RADIUS-based or other) - PE3 learns all the other members of the VPLS in question from the directory - PE3 checks if L2TP control connections with any of the PEs that are members in the VPLS in question exist; if not, it established them - PE3 then establishes L2TP sessions to all the other PEs that participate in the VPLS in question; they use the directory info to verify that PE3 is, indeed a member in the VPLS in question to authorize acceptance of these sessions. > > How will that new PE3 will be added to the VPLS in > draft-heinen or other > proposals ? > > So with draft-tsenevir ; adding a VLAN to the VPLS is exactly > the same > steps. > I still do not understand why signaling should be involved in adding a VLAN to a VPLS. > > draft-tsenevir is decoupling the tunnels. Hence, it > will setup the > tunnel, followed by adding VPLS instance and adding VLAN, > > These steps can be extended equally when a PEx or VLANy is > removed from the > VPLS. > > > >From: Sasha Vainshtein > >To: "'Tissa Senevirathne'" > >CC: l2vpn@ietf.org > >Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > >Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2003 10:34:14 +0200 > > > >Tissa and all, > >Please see some answers inline. > > > >With best regards, > > Sasha Vainshtein > >email: sasha@axerra.com > >tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 01, 2003 6:30 AM > > > To: Sasha Vainshtein > > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > > > Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > > > > > > > Sasha and all, > > > > > > Flowing are the key diference I can see in draft-tsenevir > > > when compared to > > > draft-heinanen. > > > > > > draft-tsenevir - > > > > > > 1. Treat VPLS decoupled from the L2TP tunnel creations' > > > > >I do not ubderstand how this decupling can work. Please consider > >the following scenario: > >1. There are 3 PEs (PE1, PE2, and PE3) > >2. There are 3 VPLS instances (V1, V2 and V3) > >3. Initially, these instances are distributed between the PEs like > > following: > > a) V1 is instanciated in PE1 and PE2 > > b) V2 and V3 are isnanciated both in PE2 and PE3 > > c) Consequently, there is no need for an L2TP tunnel > > (control connection) between PE1 and PE3, since there > > is no VPLS traffic between them > >4. When V2 is additionally instanciated in PE1, there is a > > need to establish an L2TP tunnel serving the VPLS application > > between PE1 and PE3 (and then to establish an appropriate > > L2TP session to carry the data). > > How can this be achieved if "tunnel creation is > > decoupled from the VPLS operation?" > > > > > > 2. Assumes VPLS instance can have multiple VLAN and provide > > > operations to > > > add/remove VLAN to the VPLS without creating new VPLS instances > > > > >I do not understand why this cannot be achieved in draft-heinanen. > >(IMO, adding a VLAN to a VPLS instance affects only the data plane > >of the VPLS. Is this understanding incorect?) > > > > > > 3. Allow methods for originating PE to request, selectively, > > > acknowledgments to a VPLS related operation of interest. > > > > >Sorry, I do not understand that. Can you give a specific example? > > > > > > 4. Use of Request-Response model allow originator to receive > > > status of remote VPLS operations at the VPLS layer. > > > > >Do you mean that you do not rely on the reliable transport > >used by the auto-discovery and/or signaling protocols? > > > > > > 5. My personal opinion, architecture presented here in > > > draft-tsenevir is > > > modular and easy to integrate with L2TP. > > > > >IMHO, the fact that this architecture requires additions > >at the BASE L2TP level somewhat contradicts my notion of > >"easy integration with L2TP". > > > > > > Also, I personally think, it is better RADIUS discovery is > > > independent fro > > > signaling protocols. So it can be used with RSVP and like > > > wise protocols. > > > > >IMO, RADIUS discovery can be used with different signaling > >protocols (e.g., with LDP). I do not understand the reference > >to RSVP, since, to the best of my knowledge, it is not used for > >the PW signaling today. > > > > > > >From: Sasha Vainshtein > > > >To: 'Tissa Senevirathne' > > > >CC: l2vpn@ietf.org > > > >Subject: RE: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > >Date: Mon, 29 Sep 2003 13:47:16 +0200 > > > > > > > >Tissa and all, > > > >I have tried to compare your draft with > > > >draft-heinanen-radius-l2tp-vpls-00.txt. > > > > > > > >My first observation is that draft-heinanen support VPLS > operation > > > >(subject to some auto-discovery mechanism which is out of scope > > > >of L2TP) without introducing any extensions to the basic > L2TP level. > > > >IMO, the approach used in this draft can be used with any > > > auto-discovery > > > >mechanism (direc tory-based, BGP-based etc.) with > minimal changes. > > > >(Of course,I can be wrong here:-) > > > > > > > >Hence I would like to understand the rationale for > > > far-reaching changes > > > >to L2TP proposed in your draft. > > > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------------- > > > --------------- > > > >-------- > > > >With best regards, > > > > Sasha Vainshtein > > > >email: sasha@axerra.com > > > >phone: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > > > +972-8-9254948 (home) > > > > +972-58-674833 (cellular) > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Tissa Senevirathne [mailto:tsenevir@hotmail.com] > > > > > Sent: Monday, September 29, 2003 4:34 AM > > > > > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > > > > Subject: Use of L2TP base VPLS > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ID below present use of L2TP base signaling for VPLS. Work in > > > > > this ID is > > > > > presented as complimentary to other work currently in > > > > > progress at WG level. > > > > > > > > > > I appreciate your comments and feedback > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-tsenevir-l2tp-vpls-00.txt > > > > > > > > > > Tissa > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > > > Frustrated with dial-up? Get high-speed for as low as > $29.95/month > > > > > (depending on the local service providers in your area). > > > > > https://broadband.msn.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > > Get McAfee virus scanning and cleaning of incoming > > > attachments. Get Hotmail > > > Extra Storage! http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger > 6.0. Try it now > FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:40:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15510 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Qr-0006i2-24 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92He4mZ025759 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Qp-0006fo-TG for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15462 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:39:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Qn-0003zd-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Qn-0003za-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Qo-0006fK-SI; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Qf-0006eF-0s for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:39:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15455 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:39:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Qc-0003zN-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:39:50 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Qc-0003yV-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:39:50 -0400 Received: from kummer.juniper.net (kummer.juniper.net [172.17.12.90]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h92Hcpj55426; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:38:51 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kireeti@juniper.net) Received: from localhost (kireeti@localhost) by kummer.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h92HcoN73065; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:38:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kireeti@juniper.net) X-Authentication-Warning: kummer.juniper.net: kireeti owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:38:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Kireeti Kompella To: Loa Andersson cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, Vach Kompella , Rick Wilder , Thomas Narten Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions In-Reply-To: <3F7C3F6F.8040501@pi.se> Message-ID: <20031002103554.W72865@kummer.juniper.net> References: <3F7C3F6F.8040501@pi.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Loa, On Thu, 2 Oct 2003, Loa Andersson wrote: > In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: > - that there are interesting parts and discussion within this > draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the > working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own > right Okay, sounds good. Will wait for feedback from the authors that is applicable to the BGP VPLS document. > - that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual Private LAN > Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed > towards Proposed Standard in their own right > > - that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the > differences between these two solutions Great! This is good progress. Kireeti. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:41:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15568 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:41:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Rn-0006pr-HA for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92Hf3Ne026269 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:41:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Rn-0006pP-Bt for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15548 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Rl-00040k-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Rk-00040h-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Rm-0006nr-E6; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Rb-0006mr-58 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15540 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57RY-00040S-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:48 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57RY-0003zk-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:40:48 -0400 Received: from kummer.juniper.net (kummer.juniper.net [172.17.12.90]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h92HeIj55808; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kireeti@juniper.net) Received: from localhost (kireeti@localhost) by kummer.juniper.net (8.11.6/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h92HeIA73073; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:40:18 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kireeti@juniper.net) X-Authentication-Warning: kummer.juniper.net: kireeti owned process doing -bs Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:40:18 -0700 (PDT) From: Kireeti Kompella To: Bala Venkata cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: MIB for VP*S In-Reply-To: <3E079DCB.1F646E90.476F938A@netscape.net> Message-ID: <20031002103942.A72865@kummer.juniper.net> References: <3E079DCB.1F646E90.476F938A@netscape.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Bala, On Thu, 25 Sep 2003, Bala Venkata wrote: > Juniper seems to have added some support in > their properitary MIB (see more at: > http://www.juniper.net/techpubs/software/junos/junos60/swconfig60-net-mgmt/html/mib-jnx-vpn.txt) We'll be happy to wrap an ID around this and submit it to the l2vpn WG. Kireeti. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:42:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15619 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Sk-00071R-By for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:42:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92Hg2Er026987 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Sk-00070a-5d for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:42:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15600 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Sh-00041b-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Sh-00041Y-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Sj-0006y2-5s; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:42:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57S1-0006sx-Ew for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15565; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:41:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Ry-000416-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:14 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Ry-00040L-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:41:14 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 02 Oct 2003 10:46:22 -0700 Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h92HefJs013676; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 10:40:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnadeauw2k02 (che-vpn-cluster-2-80.cisco.com [10.86.242.80]) by flask.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id ACV80254; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:40 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" To: "'Ross Callon'" , , Subject: RE: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:40:40 -0400 Organization: Cisco Systems, inc. Message-ID: <03e601c3890c$4be222f0$6701a8c0@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.20031002122810.01425db0@zircon.juniper.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >-----Original Message----- >From: l3vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-admin@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Ross Callon >Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 12:38 PM >To: l3vpn@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org >Subject: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] > > >We would like to solicit comments on accepting >draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt as an l3vpn working >group document. Note that the terminology in this draft covers >both L2 and L3 vpns, and that the document is referenced in >the l2vpn framework. > >The draft was presented to the ppvpn wg twice, both times with >quite a bit of support. In part the reason that this wasn't made a >working group draft was because Loa and others pondered what >to do with it. Since it is now referenced in the l2-framework we >need to either progress the terminology draft (presumably in the >direction of an informational draft), or do considerable editing to >the l2vpn framework. I am told that it is this terminology draft that >holds the l2-framework at the moment. I too supported the document, as it is a good idea to keep track of the termonolgy. However, it seems more appropriate to push these into the framework rather than being stand-alone. If we come up with more acronyms after the framework is published we can always push out a supplemental document, or define them in their respective drafts which seems to be how things have been done in the past in other WGs. --Tom >thanks, Ross > >>Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt >>Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 07:35:58 -0400 >>From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >>Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org >>To: IETF-Announce: ; >> >>A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line >Internet-Drafts directories. >> >> >> Title : PPVPN Terminology >> Author(s) : L. Andersson, T. Madsen >> Filename : draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt >> Pages : 21 >> Date : 2003-10-1 >> >>The provider provisioned VPN solutions has attracted a great deal >>of interest. Memos proposing different and overlapping solution >>have been discussed on the PPVPN mailing list and in the Working >>Group meetings. This has lead to a development of a partly new >>set of concepts used to describe the set of VPN services. To a >>certain extent there are more than one term covering the same >>concept and sometimes the same term covers more than on concept. >>The terminology needs to be made clearer and more intuitive. This >>document seeks to fill at least part of that need. >> >>A URL for this Internet-Draft is: >>http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-andersson-ppvpn-term inology-04.txt > >To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:44:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15718 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:44:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Ug-0007CA-NI for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:44:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92Hi25g027652 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:44:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Ug-0007Bu-Gi for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:44:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15692 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:43:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Ue-00042m-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:44:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Ud-00042j-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:44:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57Uf-000797-J1; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:44:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57U1-00077o-0z for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:43:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15675; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:43:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Ty-00042U-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:43:18 -0400 Received: from zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.57]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57Ty-000425-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:43:18 -0400 Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars04f.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h92Hgf529135; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:41 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" To: Ross Callon , l3vpn@ietf.org, l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:42:39 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Ross, Given the nature of l2/3 vpn services and solutions having a terminology draft is a useful thing. I think it should progress to WG doc status. Hamid. > > > We would like to solicit comments on accepting > draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt as an l3vpn working > group document. Note that the terminology in this draft covers > both L2 and L3 vpns, and that the document is referenced in > the l2vpn framework. > > The draft was presented to the ppvpn wg twice, both times with > quite a bit of support. In part the reason that this wasn't made a > working group draft was because Loa and others pondered what > to do with it. Since it is now referenced in the l2-framework we > need to either progress the terminology draft (presumably in the > direction of an informational draft), or do considerable editing to > the l2vpn framework. I am told that it is this terminology draft that > holds the l2-framework at the moment. > > thanks, Ross > > >Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt > >Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 07:35:58 -0400 > >From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > >Reply-To: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > >To: IETF-Announce: ; > > > >A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > Internet-Drafts directories. > > > > > > Title : PPVPN Terminology > > Author(s) : L. Andersson, T. Madsen > > Filename : draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt > > Pages : 21 > > Date : 2003-10-1 > > > >The provider provisioned VPN solutions has attracted a great deal > >of interest. Memos proposing different and overlapping solution > >have been discussed on the PPVPN mailing list and in the Working > >Group meetings. This has lead to a development of a partly new > >set of concepts used to describe the set of VPN services. To a > >certain extent there are more than one term covering the same > >concept and sometimes the same term covers more than on concept. > >The terminology needs to be made clearer and more intuitive. This > >document seeks to fill at least part of that need. > > > >A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > >http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-andersson-ppvpn-ter minology-04.txt > >To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to >ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. > >Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username >"anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, >type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt". > >A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in >http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html >or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > >Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > >Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. >In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt". > >NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 13:57:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16674 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:57:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57hG-00088y-Ba for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:57:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92Hv23F031296 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:57:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57hG-00088h-2v for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:57:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16654 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57hD-0004Jp-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:56:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57hD-0004Jm-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:56:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57hE-00087F-7I; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:57:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A57gI-000869-BK for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:56:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA16625; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:55:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57gF-0004J4-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:55:59 -0400 Received: from zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com ([47.129.242.157]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A57gF-0004IG-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 13:55:59 -0400 Received: from zcard309.ca.nortel.com (zcard309.ca.nortel.com [47.129.242.69]) by zcars0m9.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h92HtQI05513; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:55:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zcard309.ca.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:55:27 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Hamid Ould-Brahim" To: tnadeau@cisco.com, "'Ross Callon'" , l3vpn@ietf.org, l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 13:55:20 -0400 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Tom, [clipped]... > > I too supported the document, as it is a good idea > to keep track of the termonolgy. However, it seems more > appropriate to push these into the framework rather > than being stand-alone. If we come up with more acronyms > after the framework is published we can always push out a > supplemental document, or define them in their respective > drafts which seems to be how things have been done in the > past in other WGs. > That would be a good option as well to consider. Hamid. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 16:27:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24125 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:27:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5A2S-0008Ut-I9 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:27:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92KR4rZ032657 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:27:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5A2S-0008Ue-Bv for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:27:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24113 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5A2Q-0006GJ-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:27:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5A2Q-0006GG-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:27:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5A2P-0008Tt-AT; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:27:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5A1U-0008TP-N5 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:26:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA24062; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 16:25:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5A1R-0006Ey-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:26:01 -0400 Received: from smtp4.hy.skanova.net ([195.67.199.133]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5A1Q-0006Ev-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 16:26:00 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp4.hy.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h92KPqJg017716; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 22:25:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F7C89D3.9010808@pi.se> Date: Thu, 02 Oct 2003 22:25:55 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tnadeau@cisco.com CC: "'Ross Callon'" , l3vpn@ietf.org, l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] References: <03e601c3890c$4be222f0$6701a8c0@amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <03e601c3890c$4be222f0$6701a8c0@amer.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tom, this was one aspect in the "pondering", we found it was a good thing in itself to have a common place for the terminology, as some drafts use slight non-overlaping terminology and this is the only place where this is captured. Note that the terminology draft covers more than the l2 framework and it wouldn't make sense to take all of into the framework. /Loa Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > I too supported the document, as it is a good idea > to keep track of the termonolgy. However, it seems more > appropriate to push these into the framework rather > than being stand-alone. If we come up with more acronyms > after the framework is published we can always push out a > supplemental document, or define them in their respective > drafts which seems to be how things have been done in the > past in other WGs. > > --Tom -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 17:02:53 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25640 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:02:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5Aam-0002N3-Hv for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:02:32 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92L2W2X009107 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:02:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5Aam-0002Mj-9v for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:02:32 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25618 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:02:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5AaG-0002Fv-AJ; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:02:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5AZX-0002FK-HO for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:01:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25605; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:01:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5AZU-0006kX-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:01:12 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5AZU-0006ju-00; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:01:12 -0400 Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.9/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h92L0awn021806; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 14:00:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from tnadeauw2k02 (che-vpn-cluster-2-80.cisco.com [10.86.242.80]) by flask.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id ACW02923; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:00:33 -0400 (EDT) Reply-To: From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" To: "'Loa Andersson'" Cc: "'Ross Callon'" , , Subject: RE: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:00:33 -0400 Organization: Cisco Systems, inc. Message-ID: <044101c38928$39386440$6701a8c0@amer.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 In-Reply-To: <3F7C89D3.9010808@pi.se> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4927.1200 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit >-----Original Message----- >From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org] On >Behalf Of Loa Andersson >Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 4:26 PM >To: tnadeau@cisco.com >Cc: 'Ross Callon'; l3vpn@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] > > >Tom, > >this was one aspect in the "pondering", we found it was a good >thing in itself to have a common place for the terminology, >as some drafts use slight non-overlaping terminology and this >is the only place where this is captured. > >Note that the terminology draft covers more than the l2 framework >and it wouldn't make sense to take all of into the framework. Agreed; just the stuff that applies to L2VPN should go into its charter. --Tom > > >/Loa > >Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > > >> I too supported the document, as it is a good idea >> to keep track of the termonolgy. However, it seems more >> appropriate to push these into the framework rather >> than being stand-alone. If we come up with more acronyms >> after the framework is published we can always push out a >> supplemental document, or define them in their respective >> drafts which seems to be how things have been done in the >> past in other WGs. >> >> --Tom > > >-- >Loa Andersson > >Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 >Email loa@pi.se > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 2 17:29:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA26471 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:29:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5B0R-0003kH-SZ for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:29:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h92LT3QD014391 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:29:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5B0R-0003k2-P0 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:29:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA26465 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:28:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5B0P-00072H-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:29:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5B0P-00072E-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:29:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5B0O-0003jY-W5; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:29:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5B0F-0003jN-EY for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:28:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA26462 for ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:28:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5B0D-00072B-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:28:49 -0400 Received: from mdmail.ciena.com ([63.118.39.25] helo=mdmxb01.ciena.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5B0C-000728-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 02 Oct 2003 17:28:48 -0400 Received: by mdmxb01.ciena.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:28:43 -0400 Message-ID: <8162DD929D7AD24CAD3FC5317CE41FB06D43F4@w2kmaexg01.ciena.com> From: "Shah, Himanshu" To: "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" Subject: IPLS as wg doc Date: Thu, 2 Oct 2003 17:28:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , A while back opinion was solicited on the WG list to make the draft-shah-ppvpn-ipls-02.txt as the WG doc. A good support was expressed on the mailing list. That coupled with a good show of hands at the last IETF meeting indicate that draft be adopted as WG doc. Therefore I request the chairs to adopt this draft as WG doc. regards, himanshu Ciena Corp. From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 3 07:31:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA01464 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:31:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5O9L-0000mT-2j for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:31:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h93BV73I003000 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:31:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5O9K-0000mJ-Vh for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:31:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA01411 for ; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:30:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5O9K-000710-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:31:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A5O9K-00070x-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:31:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5O9G-0000k7-SG; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:31:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A5O8T-0000bJ-SH for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:30:13 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA01296; Fri, 3 Oct 2003 07:30:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310031130.HAA01296@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-02.txt Date: Fri, 03 Oct 2003 07:30:05 -0400 Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : L2VPN Framework Author(s) : L. Andersson, E. Rosen Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-02.txt Pages : 45 Date : 2003-10-2 This document provides a framework for Layer 2 Provider Provisioned Virtual Private Networks (Layer 2 PPVPNs, or L2VPNs). This framework is intended to aid in standardizing protocols and mechanisms to support interoperable Layer 2 PPVPNs. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-02.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-02.txt". 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Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-2132143.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-2132143.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Oct 5 11:21:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18076 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:21:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Agy-0004Ri-Hv for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:21:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h95FL486017086 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:21:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Agy-0004RV-9y for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:21:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18060 for ; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:20:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Agx-0002gl-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:21:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6Agx-0002gh-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:21:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6Agu-0004QN-Rm; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:21:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6AgJ-0004Ob-RI for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:20:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA18050; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 11:20:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6AgI-0002gU-00; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:20:22 -0400 Received: from smtp1.fre.skanova.net ([195.67.227.94]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6AgI-0002gQ-00; Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:20:22 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp1.fre.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h95FKFTS007678; Sun, 5 Oct 2003 17:20:15 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F8036B2.70903@pi.se> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 17:20:18 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: tnadeau@cisco.com CC: "'Ross Callon'" , l3vpn@ietf.org, l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] References: <044101c38928$39386440$6701a8c0@amer.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <044101c38928$39386440$6701a8c0@amer.cisco.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I feel like I'm runnig around in circles thre are twio aspects - we want more terminolgoy in one place than reltes to just l2 or l3 vpns, for obvious reasons - we want frameworks and solutions selfcontained terminologywise the fist aspect we could only bu a joint document, the second is (a bit less than percfect) done by referencing the joint document if we say that the firts aspect is unnecessary/unimportant/futile, then we include the appropriate parts in each doc my gutfeeling here (from the number if mail I've recieved on the terminology draft) is that it has filled a need. /Loa Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > >>-----Original Message----- >>Note that the terminology draft covers more than the l2 framework >>and it wouldn't make sense to take all of into the framework. > > > Agreed; just the stuff that applies to L2VPN should > go into its charter. > > --Tom > > -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 6 08:25:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27147 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:25:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6UQE-00035f-6z for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:25:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h96CP6IJ011878 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:25:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6UQE-00035D-1Z for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:25:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27139 for ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:24:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6UQC-0004Ug-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:25:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6UQC-0004Ud-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:25:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6UQA-00034a-PA; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:25:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6UPO-00033X-Nf for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:24:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA27123; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 08:24:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6UPN-0004UE-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:24:13 -0400 Received: from motgate2.mot.com ([136.182.1.10]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6UPN-0004U9-00; Mon, 06 Oct 2003 08:24:13 -0400 Received: from il06exr02.mot.com (pobox.mot.com [129.188.137.100]) by motgate2.mot.com (Motorola/Motgate2) with ESMTP id h96COBpx025994; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 05:24:11 -0700 (MST) Received: from zin01exm01.corp.mot.com (zin01exm01.corp.mot.com [217.1.122.3]) by il06exr02.mot.com (Motorola/il06exr02) with ESMTP id h96CO5Vo009241; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 07:24:07 -0500 Received: by zin01exm01.corp.mot.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) id ; Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:53:45 +0530 Message-ID: From: Nagarajan Ananth-Q3241C To: Ross Callon , l3vpn@ietf.org, l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: [Fwd: I-D ACTION:draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt] Date: Mon, 6 Oct 2003 17:53:35 +0530 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.2) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > > We would like to solicit comments on accepting > draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt as an l3vpn working > group document. Note that the terminology in this draft covers > both L2 and L3 vpns, and that the document is referenced in > the l2vpn framework. > It is also referenced in the generic requirements draft. > The draft was presented to the ppvpn wg twice, both times with > quite a bit of support. In part the reason that this wasn't made a > working group draft was because Loa and others pondered what > to do with it. Since it is now referenced in the l2-framework we > need to either progress the terminology draft (presumably in the > direction of an informational draft), or do considerable editing to > the l2vpn framework. I am told that it is this terminology draft that > holds the l2-framework at the moment. > I guess this applies to the generic requirements draft as well. AS such, i support making this a WG document. Ananth > From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 03:01:32 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21454 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:01:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6lqI-0001KI-JD for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:01:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9771AGI005095 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:01:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6lqH-0001K6-I7 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:01:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA21411 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:00:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6lqD-0001zA-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:01:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6lqD-0001z6-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:01:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6lqA-0001IT-IP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:01:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6lpB-0001GJ-BW for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 03:00:01 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA21375 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 02:59:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6lp7-0001ya-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 02:59:57 -0400 Received: from smtp1.fre.skanova.net ([195.67.227.94]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6lp6-0001yV-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 02:59:56 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp1.fre.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h976xfTS010889; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 08:59:42 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F826461.10305@pi.se> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 08:59:45 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Sasha Vainshtein , l2vpn@ietf.org CC: Vach Kompella , Rick Wilder , Thomas Narten Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sasha, there were two reasons - it is not really competing for the same solutions space - it was our impression that the interest for this draft had faded, when no new editor were found However, we (wg co-chairs) are quite happy that it is brought back on the arena and would encourage the co-author to get together and suggest a new document editor amomng themselves, alt. ask us to appoint one if one can't be found among the co-authors. Once we have the editor, we would be happy to discuss next steps, including making it a wg doc. /Loa Sasha Vainshtein wrote: > Loa and all, > May I ask why the directory-based VPLS approach > (proposed by Juha Heinanen) has been left out of > even the initial list? > > With best regards, > Sasha Vainshtein > email: sasha@axerra.com > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > > > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] >>Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:09 PM >>To: l2vpn@ietf.org >>Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten >>Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> >> >> >>L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. >> >>There has been a debate for some time about which and how many VPLS >>solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This started >>back in the >>PPVPN and several suggestions >>on how to go forward have been offered. >> >>Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: >> >>a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN >> >> >>b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework >> >> >>c. Virtual Private LAN Service >> >> >>d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS >> >> >>The CE-based solution is not included in the working group charter. >> >>Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and >>they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should >>proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a >>smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!", groups that >>are very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group that >>says "Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the market >>and let the market decide!" >> >>We have discussed how to define working group consensus and find >>a way forward, that is acceptable both for the working group and >>for the IETF as a standards organization. >> >>These are our conclusions: >> >> >>The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been >>documented in the working group meetings and on the mailing list. >>We will not progress this solution further. However, there are >>interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on >>scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with authors of >>the other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other solutions >>documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. >> >>The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under >>"normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they would have >>been accepted as working group documents and rapidly progressed to >>Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. >> >>The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not large, >>however they have taken their starting point in two different >>networking scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks >>based on routers that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, >>while (d) takes as a starting point that it shall be possible to >>run also on equipment that do not have all those protocols available >>or deployable. We have therefore decided that there is enough support >>in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a >>delta between them that the working group should progress >>both solutions >>to proposed standard. >> >> >>In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: >> >>- that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little >> support and on the other is not within charter, and will therfor >> not be considered as an option for the working group vpls >> solution. >> >>- that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE >> Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be >> a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls >> >>- that there are interesting parts and discussion within this >> draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the >> working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own >> right >> >>- that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual Private LAN >> Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed >> towards Proposed Standard in their own right >> >>- that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the >> differences between these two solutions >> >> >>Vach Rick Loa >> >> >>-- >>Loa Andersson >> >>Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 >>Email loa@pi.se >> >> >> > > > > -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 04:14:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22759 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:14:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6myu-0004kM-1M for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:14:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h978E7xf018245 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:14:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6myt-0004kC-Lj for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:14:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22741 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:13:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6myq-0002VP-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:14:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6myq-0002VM-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:14:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6myn-0004je-SW; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:14:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6myB-0004ii-Iz for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:13:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22727 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:13:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6my8-0002V1-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:13:20 -0400 Received: from [80.74.100.67] (helo=antivir2) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6my7-0002Tw-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:13:19 -0400 Received: from 192.168.254.14 by antivir2 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:11:20 +0200 Received: by TLV1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:12:04 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sasha Vainshtein To: "'Loa Andersson'" Cc: Vach Kompella , Rick Wilder , Thomas Narten , l2vpn@ietf.org, "'jh@tutpro.com'" , Alik Shimelmits , Sharon Galtzur Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 10:11:54 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-8" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Loa and all, Thank you for a prompt response. Please see also some comments inline. With best regards, Sasha Vainshtein email: sasha@axerra.com tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) +972-8-9254948 (res.) +972-58-674833 (cell.) > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 AM > To: Sasha Vainshtein; l2vpn@ietf.org > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten > Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > > > Sasha, > > there were two reasons > > - it is not really competing for the same solutions space [Sasha] I agree - it does not, since, in its present form, it describes a way to provide a VPLS solution over an IP (not necessarily MPLS-enabled) network. > - it was our impression that the interest for this draft > had faded, when no new editor were found > [Sasha] I have probably missed something. I remember a prolonged discussion (involving a RADIUS expert) wrt specifics of using RADIUS as an auto-discovery mechanism. AFAIK, the last update to the RADIUS discovery draft has covered most (possibly) all open issues in this area. > > However, we (wg co-chairs) are quite happy that it is brought > back on the arena and would encourage the co-author to get together > and suggest a new document editor amomng themselves, alt. ask > us to appoint one if one can't be found among the co-authors. > [Sasha] AFAIK, the last two drafts have been authored by Juha without any co-authors. Did I miss something? > > Once we have the editor, we would be happy to discuss next > steps, including making it a wg doc. > > /Loa > > Sasha Vainshtein wrote: > > > Loa and all, > > May I ask why the directory-based VPLS approach > > (proposed by Juha Heinanen) has been left out of > > even the initial list? > > > > With best regards, > > Sasha Vainshtein > > email: sasha@axerra.com > > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > >>From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > >>Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:09 PM > >>To: l2vpn@ietf.org > >>Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten > >>Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > >> > >> > >> > >>L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. > >> > >>There has been a debate for some time about which and how many VPLS > >>solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This started > >>back in the > >>PPVPN and several suggestions > >>on how to go forward have been offered. > >> > >>Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: > >> > >>a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN > >> > >> > >>b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework > >> > >> > >>c. Virtual Private LAN Service > >> > >> > >>d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS > >> > >> > >>The CE-based solution is not included in the working group charter. > >> > >>Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and > >>they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should > >>proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a > >>smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!", groups that > >>are very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group that > >>says "Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the market > >>and let the market decide!" > >> > >>We have discussed how to define working group consensus and find > >>a way forward, that is acceptable both for the working group and > >>for the IETF as a standards organization. > >> > >>These are our conclusions: > >> > >> > >>The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been > >>documented in the working group meetings and on the mailing list. > >>We will not progress this solution further. However, there are > >>interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on > >>scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with authors of > >>the other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other > solutions > >>documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. > >> > >>The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under > >>"normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they would have > >>been accepted as working group documents and rapidly progressed to > >>Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. > >> > >>The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not large, > >>however they have taken their starting point in two different > >>networking scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks > >>based on routers that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, > >>while (d) takes as a starting point that it shall be possible to > >>run also on equipment that do not have all those protocols available > >>or deployable. We have therefore decided that there is > enough support > >>in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a > >>delta between them that the working group should progress > >>both solutions > >>to proposed standard. > >> > >> > >>In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: > >> > >>- that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little > >> support and on the other is not within charter, and will therfor > >> not be considered as an option for the working group vpls > >> solution. > >> > >>- that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE > >> Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be > >> a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls > >> > >>- that there are interesting parts and discussion within this > >> draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the > >> working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own > >> right > >> > >>- that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual > Private LAN > >> Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed > >> towards Proposed Standard in their own right > >> > >>- that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the > >> differences between these two solutions > >> > >> > >>Vach Rick Loa > >> > >> > >>-- > >>Loa Andersson > >> > >>Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 > >>Email loa@pi.se > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > > > > -- > Loa Andersson > > Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 > Email loa@pi.se > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 04:24:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22954 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:24:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6n8Y-0005Cp-Aj for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:24:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h978O63p019996 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:24:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6n8W-0005BP-Ae for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:24:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22947 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:23:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6n8T-0002ZD-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:24:01 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6n8T-0002ZA-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:24:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6n8T-0005Ad-Bn; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:24:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6n8C-00058v-1G for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:23:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id EAA22941 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 04:23:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6n88-0002Z0-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:23:40 -0400 Received: from [64.47.48.7] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6n88-0002Yx-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 04:23:40 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.5.178] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:23:05 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Vach Kompella" To: "'Sasha Vainshtein'" , "'Loa Andersson'" Cc: "'Rick Wilder'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , , , "'Alik Shimelmits'" , "'Sharon Galtzur'" Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:21:08 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <01be01c38cab$f7436030$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2003 08:23:05.0141 (UTC) FILETIME=[3B2A7E50:01C38CAC] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sasha, Yes, Bernard Aboba and Juha went back and forth for a while, and yes, the RADIUS issues were dealt with. We now have a document which had substantial support but no champion/editor. What we are suggesting is that the interested parties take up the draft and continue to work on it. Once the editor is found, we have no problem making it a working group document. It is not required that Juha be the editor (though we would like to see him get the due credit). He pretty much said that, as be bowed out of ppvpn, that he was hoping someone else would carry the ball. -Vach=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Sasha Vainshtein [mailto:Sasha@AXERRA.com]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:12 AM > To: 'Loa Andersson' > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten;=20 > l2vpn@ietf.org; 'jh@tutpro.com'; Alik Shimelmits; Sharon Galtzur > Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >=20 >=20 > Loa and all, > Thank you for a prompt response. > Please see also some comments inline. >=20 > With best regards, > Sasha Vainshtein > email: sasha@axerra.com =20 > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > =20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 AM > > To: Sasha Vainshtein; l2vpn@ietf.org > > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten > > Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > >=20 > >=20 > > Sasha, > >=20 > > there were two reasons > >=20 > > - it is not really competing for the same solutions space > [Sasha] I agree - it does not, since, in its present form,=20 > it describes a way to provide a VPLS solution over an IP=20 > (not necessarily MPLS-enabled) network. > > - it was our impression that the interest for this draft > > had faded, when no new editor were found > >=20 > [Sasha] I have probably missed something. I remember a=20 > prolonged discussion (involving a RADIUS expert) wrt=20 > specifics of using=20 > RADIUS as an auto-discovery mechanism. AFAIK, the last update=20 > to the RADIUS discovery draft has covered most (possibly) all=20 > open issues in this area.=20 > > > > However, we (wg co-chairs) are quite happy that it is=20 > brought back on=20 > > the arena and would encourage the co-author to get together and=20 > > suggest a new document editor amomng themselves, alt. ask us to=20 > > appoint one if one can't be found among the co-authors. > > > [Sasha] AFAIK, the last two drafts have been authored by Juha=20 > without any co-authors. Did I miss something? > > > > Once we have the editor, we would be happy to discuss next steps,=20 > > including making it a wg doc. > >=20 > > /Loa > >=20 > > Sasha Vainshtein wrote: > >=20 > > > Loa and all, > > > May I ask why the directory-based VPLS approach > > > (proposed by Juha Heinanen) has been left out of > > > even the initial list? > > >=20 > > > With best regards, > > > Sasha Vainshtein > > > email: sasha@axerra.com =20 > > > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > > > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > > > =20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >>-----Original Message----- > > >>From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > > >>Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:09 PM > > >>To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > >>Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten > > >>Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. > > >> > > >>There has been a debate for some time about which and how=20 > many VPLS=20 > > >>solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This=20 > started back in=20 > > >>the PPVPN and several suggestions > > >>on how to go forward have been offered. > > >> > > >>Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: > > >> > > >>a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN > > >> > > >> > > >>b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework > > >> > > >> > > >>c. Virtual Private LAN Service > > >> > > >> > > >>d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS > > >> > > >> > > >>The CE-based solution is not included in the working=20 > group charter. > > >> > > >>Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and=20 > > >>they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should=20 > > >>proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a=20 > > >>smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!",=20 > groups that are=20 > > >>very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group=20 > that says=20 > > >>"Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the=20 > market and let=20 > > >>the market decide!" > > >> > > >>We have discussed how to define working group consensus=20 > and find a=20 > > >>way forward, that is acceptable both for the working=20 > group and for=20 > > >>the IETF as a standards organization. > > >> > > >>These are our conclusions: > > >> > > >> > > >>The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been=20 > > >>documented in the working group meetings and on the=20 > mailing list. We=20 > > >>will not progress this solution further. However, there are=20 > > >>interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on=20 > > >>scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with=20 > authors of the=20 > > >>other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other > > solutions > > >>documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. > > >> > > >>The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under=20 > > >>"normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they=20 > would have=20 > > >>been accepted as working group documents and rapidly=20 > progressed to=20 > > >>Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. > > >> > > >>The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not=20 > large, however=20 > > >>they have taken their starting point in two different networking=20 > > >>scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks based=20 > on routers=20 > > >>that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, while=20 > (d) takes as=20 > > >>a starting point that it shall be possible to run also on=20 > equipment=20 > > >>that do not have all those protocols available or deployable. We=20 > > >>have therefore decided that there is > > enough support > > >>in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a delta=20 > > >>between them that the working group should progress both solutions > > >>to proposed standard. > > >> > > >> > > >>In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: > > >> > > >>- that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little > > >> support and on the other is not within charter, and=20 > will therfor > > >> not be considered as an option for the working group vpls > > >> solution. > > >> > > >>- that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE > > >> Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be > > >> a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls > > >> > > >>- that there are interesting parts and discussion within this > > >> draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the > > >> working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own > > >> right > > >> > > >>- that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual > > Private LAN > > >> Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed > > >> towards Proposed Standard in their own right > > >> > > >>- that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the > > >> differences between these two solutions > > >> > > >> > > >>Vach Rick Loa > > >> > > >> > > >>-- > > >>Loa Andersson > > >> > > >>Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 > > >>Email loa@pi.se > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > > >=20 > >=20 > > -- > > Loa Andersson > >=20 > > Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 > > Email loa@pi.se > >=20 > >=20 >=20 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 06:22:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25831 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:22:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oyh-00013i-Kj for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:22:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97AM3Rv004070 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:22:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oyh-00013Z-Ce for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:22:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25822 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:21:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oyd-0003dI-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:21:59 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oyd-0003dF-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:21:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oye-000134-1J; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:22:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6oyK-00010k-3b for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:21:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA25816 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:21:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oyG-0003d7-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:21:36 -0400 Received: from bay2-f80.bay2.hotmail.com ([65.54.247.80] helo=hotmail.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6oyF-0003cf-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:21:35 -0400 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 03:21:06 -0700 Received: from 66.7.144.1 by by2fd.bay2.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:06 GMT X-Originating-IP: [66.7.144.1] X-Originating-Email: [tsenevir@hotmail.com] From: "Tissa Senevirathne" To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com, Sasha@AXERRA.com, loa@pi.se Cc: rick@rhwilder.net, narten@us.ibm.com, l2vpn@ietf.org, jh@tutpro.com, alik@AXERRA.com, sharon@AXERRA.com Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 10:21:06 +0000 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 07 Oct 2003 10:21:06.0549 (UTC) FILETIME=[B8039A50:01C38CBC] Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , my suggestion to WG is to seperate out RADIUS based discovery and L2TP signaling for VPLS and dealt seperately. They appear to be two disjoint issues and can be used independent to one another, hence seperation allow to mature both the parts with appropriate expertise/focus. I have personally shared my view on L2TP signaling for VPLS through draft-tsenevir-l2tp-vpls-00.txt. >From: "Vach Kompella" >Reply-To: >To: "'Sasha Vainshtein'" , "'Loa Andersson'" >CC: "'Rick Wilder'" , "'Thomas Narten'" >, , , >"'Alik Shimelmits'" , "'Sharon Galtzur'" > >Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:21:08 -0700 > >Sasha, > >Yes, Bernard Aboba and Juha went back and forth for a while, and yes, >the RADIUS issues were dealt with. We now have a document which had >substantial support but no champion/editor. What we are suggesting is >that the interested parties take up the draft and continue to work on >it. Once the editor is found, we have no problem making it a working >group document. It is not required that Juha be the editor (though we >would like to see him get the due credit). He pretty much said that, as >be bowed out of ppvpn, that he was hoping someone else would carry the >ball. > >-Vach > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Sasha Vainshtein [mailto:Sasha@AXERRA.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:12 AM > > To: 'Loa Andersson' > > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten; > > l2vpn@ietf.org; 'jh@tutpro.com'; Alik Shimelmits; Sharon Galtzur > > Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > > > > > > Loa and all, > > Thank you for a prompt response. > > Please see also some comments inline. > > > > With best regards, > > Sasha Vainshtein > > email: sasha@axerra.com > > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 AM > > > To: Sasha Vainshtein; l2vpn@ietf.org > > > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten > > > Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > > > > > > > > > Sasha, > > > > > > there were two reasons > > > > > > - it is not really competing for the same solutions space > > [Sasha] I agree - it does not, since, in its present form, > > it describes a way to provide a VPLS solution over an IP > > (not necessarily MPLS-enabled) network. > > > - it was our impression that the interest for this draft > > > had faded, when no new editor were found > > > > > [Sasha] I have probably missed something. I remember a > > prolonged discussion (involving a RADIUS expert) wrt > > specifics of using > > RADIUS as an auto-discovery mechanism. AFAIK, the last update > > to the RADIUS discovery draft has covered most (possibly) all > > open issues in this area. > > > > > > However, we (wg co-chairs) are quite happy that it is > > brought back on > > > the arena and would encourage the co-author to get together and > > > suggest a new document editor amomng themselves, alt. ask us to > > > appoint one if one can't be found among the co-authors. > > > > > [Sasha] AFAIK, the last two drafts have been authored by Juha > > without any co-authors. Did I miss something? > > > > > > Once we have the editor, we would be happy to discuss next steps, > > > including making it a wg doc. > > > > > > /Loa > > > > > > Sasha Vainshtein wrote: > > > > > > > Loa and all, > > > > May I ask why the directory-based VPLS approach > > > > (proposed by Juha Heinanen) has been left out of > > > > even the initial list? > > > > > > > > With best regards, > > > > Sasha Vainshtein > > > > email: sasha@axerra.com > > > > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > > > > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > > > > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>-----Original Message----- > > > >>From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > > > >>Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:09 PM > > > >>To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > > >>Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten > > > >>Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. > > > >> > > > >>There has been a debate for some time about which and how > > many VPLS > > > >>solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This > > started back in > > > >>the PPVPN and several suggestions > > > >>on how to go forward have been offered. > > > >> > > > >>Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: > > > >> > > > >>a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>c. Virtual Private LAN Service > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>The CE-based solution is not included in the working > > group charter. > > > >> > > > >>Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and > > > >>they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should > > > >>proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a > > > >>smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!", > > groups that are > > > >>very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group > > that says > > > >>"Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the > > market and let > > > >>the market decide!" > > > >> > > > >>We have discussed how to define working group consensus > > and find a > > > >>way forward, that is acceptable both for the working > > group and for > > > >>the IETF as a standards organization. > > > >> > > > >>These are our conclusions: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been > > > >>documented in the working group meetings and on the > > mailing list. We > > > >>will not progress this solution further. However, there are > > > >>interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on > > > >>scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with > > authors of the > > > >>other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other > > > solutions > > > >>documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. > > > >> > > > >>The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under > > > >>"normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they > > would have > > > >>been accepted as working group documents and rapidly > > progressed to > > > >>Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. > > > >> > > > >>The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not > > large, however > > > >>they have taken their starting point in two different networking > > > >>scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks based > > on routers > > > >>that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, while > > (d) takes as > > > >>a starting point that it shall be possible to run also on > > equipment > > > >>that do not have all those protocols available or deployable. We > > > >>have therefore decided that there is > > > enough support > > > >>in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a delta > > > >>between them that the working group should progress both solutions > > > >>to proposed standard. > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: > > > >> > > > >>- that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little > > > >> support and on the other is not within charter, and > > will therfor > > > >> not be considered as an option for the working group vpls > > > >> solution. > > > >> > > > >>- that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE > > > >> Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be > > > >> a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls > > > >> > > > >>- that there are interesting parts and discussion within this > > > >> draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the > > > >> working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own > > > >> right > > > >> > > > >>- that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual > > > Private LAN > > > >> Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed > > > >> towards Proposed Standard in their own right > > > >> > > > >>- that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the > > > >> differences between these two solutions > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>Vach Rick Loa > > > >> > > > >> > > > >>-- > > > >>Loa Andersson > > > >> > > > >>Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 > > > >>Email loa@pi.se > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Loa Andersson > > > > > > Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 > > > Email loa@pi.se > > > > > > > > > > _________________________________________________________________ Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 09:04:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29821 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6rVV-0007rD-0l for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:04:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97D445i030202 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:04:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6rVU-0007r3-Pg for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:04:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29811 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:03:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rVT-000571-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:04:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rVS-00056y-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:04:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6rVR-0007qZ-7c; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:04:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6rV3-0007qC-S5 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:03:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA29765 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 09:03:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rV2-00056X-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:03:36 -0400 Received: from ams-iport-1.cisco.com ([144.254.74.5]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6rV1-000569-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 09:03:35 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (144.254.74.60) by ams-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Oct 2003 15:01:24 +0200 Received: from cisco.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ams-msg-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.2/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h97D2xZ6020638; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:02:59 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from cisco.com (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp25.cisco.com [10.61.64.25]) by cisco.com (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA29224; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 15:03:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <3F82B984.201@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 15:03:00 +0200 From: "W. Mark Townsley" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.3) Gecko/20030312 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tissa Senevirathne CC: vach.kompella@alcatel.com, Sasha@AXERRA.com, loa@pi.se, rick@rhwilder.net, narten@us.ibm.com, l2vpn@ietf.org, jh@tutpro.com, alik@AXERRA.com, sharon@AXERRA.com Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tissa Senevirathne wrote: > my suggestion to WG is to seperate out RADIUS based discovery and L2TP > signaling for VPLS and dealt seperately. They appear to be two disjoint > issues and can be used independent to one another, hence seperation > allow to mature both the parts with appropriate expertise/focus. Juha already did half the job for you. draft-heinanen-radius-pe-discovery-04.txt makes no reference to L2TP beyond a single, very loose "such as" reference to his other document, draft-heinanen-radius-l2tp-vpls-00.txt, which ties the the two together quite nicely. Regarding more generalized discovery procedures (including BGP), draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-00.txt together with draft-luo-l2tpext-l2vpn-signaling-02.txt seem to be addressing this (though I think more integration work between the two is necessary, and AFAIK this is recognized by the authors and being worked on). > > I have personally shared my view on L2TP signaling for VPLS through > draft-tsenevir-l2tp-vpls-00.txt. The existing proposals above seem to be adequate and relatively straightforward. Thus I, too, wonder why it is necessary for L2TP to adopt an "NSP signaling" layer for VPLS. Perhaps you could separate this discussion from L2TP as well, focusing on why PWE3 needs to define a NSP signaling layer with its own semantics first. - Mark > > >> From: "Vach Kompella" >> Reply-To: >> To: "'Sasha Vainshtein'" , "'Loa Andersson'" >> >> CC: "'Rick Wilder'" , "'Thomas Narten'" >> , , , >> "'Alik Shimelmits'" , "'Sharon Galtzur'" >> >> Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:21:08 -0700 >> >> Sasha, >> >> Yes, Bernard Aboba and Juha went back and forth for a while, and yes, >> the RADIUS issues were dealt with. We now have a document which had >> substantial support but no champion/editor. What we are suggesting is >> that the interested parties take up the draft and continue to work on >> it. Once the editor is found, we have no problem making it a working >> group document. It is not required that Juha be the editor (though we >> would like to see him get the due credit). He pretty much said that, as >> be bowed out of ppvpn, that he was hoping someone else would carry the >> ball. >> >> -Vach >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Sasha Vainshtein [mailto:Sasha@AXERRA.com] >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:12 AM >> > To: 'Loa Andersson' >> > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten; >> > l2vpn@ietf.org; 'jh@tutpro.com'; Alik Shimelmits; Sharon Galtzur >> > Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> > >> > >> > Loa and all, >> > Thank you for a prompt response. >> > Please see also some comments inline. >> > >> > With best regards, >> > Sasha Vainshtein >> > email: sasha@axerra.com >> > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) >> > +972-8-9254948 (res.) >> > +972-58-674833 (cell.) >> > >> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] >> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 AM >> > > To: Sasha Vainshtein; l2vpn@ietf.org >> > > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten >> > > Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> > > >> > > >> > > Sasha, >> > > >> > > there were two reasons >> > > >> > > - it is not really competing for the same solutions space >> > [Sasha] I agree - it does not, since, in its present form, >> > it describes a way to provide a VPLS solution over an IP >> > (not necessarily MPLS-enabled) network. >> > > - it was our impression that the interest for this draft >> > > had faded, when no new editor were found >> > > >> > [Sasha] I have probably missed something. I remember a >> > prolonged discussion (involving a RADIUS expert) wrt >> > specifics of using >> > RADIUS as an auto-discovery mechanism. AFAIK, the last update >> > to the RADIUS discovery draft has covered most (possibly) all >> > open issues in this area. >> > > >> > > However, we (wg co-chairs) are quite happy that it is >> > brought back on >> > > the arena and would encourage the co-author to get together and >> > > suggest a new document editor amomng themselves, alt. ask us to >> > > appoint one if one can't be found among the co-authors. >> > > >> > [Sasha] AFAIK, the last two drafts have been authored by Juha >> > without any co-authors. Did I miss something? >> > > >> > > Once we have the editor, we would be happy to discuss next steps, >> > > including making it a wg doc. >> > > >> > > /Loa >> > > >> > > Sasha Vainshtein wrote: >> > > >> > > > Loa and all, >> > > > May I ask why the directory-based VPLS approach >> > > > (proposed by Juha Heinanen) has been left out of >> > > > even the initial list? >> > > > >> > > > With best regards, >> > > > Sasha Vainshtein >> > > > email: sasha@axerra.com >> > > > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) >> > > > +972-8-9254948 (res.) >> > > > +972-58-674833 (cell.) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >>-----Original Message----- >> > > >>From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] >> > > >>Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:09 PM >> > > >>To: l2vpn@ietf.org >> > > >>Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten >> > > >>Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. >> > > >> >> > > >>There has been a debate for some time about which and how >> > many VPLS >> > > >>solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This >> > started back in >> > > >>the PPVPN and several suggestions >> > > >>on how to go forward have been offered. >> > > >> >> > > >>Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: >> > > >> >> > > >>a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>c. Virtual Private LAN Service >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>The CE-based solution is not included in the working >> > group charter. >> > > >> >> > > >>Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and >> > > >>they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should >> > > >>proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a >> > > >>smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!", >> > groups that are >> > > >>very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group >> > that says >> > > >>"Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the >> > market and let >> > > >>the market decide!" >> > > >> >> > > >>We have discussed how to define working group consensus >> > and find a >> > > >>way forward, that is acceptable both for the working >> > group and for >> > > >>the IETF as a standards organization. >> > > >> >> > > >>These are our conclusions: >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been >> > > >>documented in the working group meetings and on the >> > mailing list. We >> > > >>will not progress this solution further. However, there are >> > > >>interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on >> > > >>scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with >> > authors of the >> > > >>other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other >> > > solutions >> > > >>documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. >> > > >> >> > > >>The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under >> > > >>"normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they >> > would have >> > > >>been accepted as working group documents and rapidly >> > progressed to >> > > >>Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. >> > > >> >> > > >>The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not >> > large, however >> > > >>they have taken their starting point in two different networking >> > > >>scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks based >> > on routers >> > > >>that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, while >> > (d) takes as >> > > >>a starting point that it shall be possible to run also on >> > equipment >> > > >>that do not have all those protocols available or deployable. We >> > > >>have therefore decided that there is >> > > enough support >> > > >>in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a delta >> > > >>between them that the working group should progress both solutions >> > > >>to proposed standard. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: >> > > >> >> > > >>- that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little >> > > >> support and on the other is not within charter, and >> > will therfor >> > > >> not be considered as an option for the working group vpls >> > > >> solution. >> > > >> >> > > >>- that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE >> > > >> Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be >> > > >> a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls >> > > >> >> > > >>- that there are interesting parts and discussion within this >> > > >> draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the >> > > >> working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own >> > > >> right >> > > >> >> > > >>- that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual >> > > Private LAN >> > > >> Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed >> > > >> towards Proposed Standard in their own right >> > > >> >> > > >>- that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the >> > > >> differences between these two solutions >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>Vach Rick Loa >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>-- >> > > >>Loa Andersson >> > > >> >> > > >>Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 >> > > >>Email loa@pi.se >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Loa Andersson >> > > >> > > Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 >> > > Email loa@pi.se >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it > now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 11:06:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05778 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:06:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tPe-0005s3-I7 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:06:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97F6Akc022557 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:06:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tPd-0005pI-LQ for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:06:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05737 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 11:05:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tPa-0006fB-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:06:06 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6tPa-0006f8-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:06:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6tPV-0005nf-9C; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 11:06:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6p7d-0001SH-LK for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:31:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA26024 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 06:31:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6p7Z-0003hC-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:31:13 -0400 Received: from harjus.tutpro.com ([192.98.100.3] ident=mail) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6p7Y-0003h9-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 06:31:13 -0400 Received: from jh by harjus.tutpro.com with local (Exim 3.35 #1 (Debian)) id 1A6p6v-0000Lq-00; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 13:30:33 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <16258.38345.364363.567439@harjus.tutpro.com> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 13:30:33 +0300 To: Cc: "'Sasha Vainshtein'" , "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Rick Wilder'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , , "'Alik Shimelmits'" , "'Sharon Galtzur'" Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions In-Reply-To: <01be01c38cab$f7436030$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> References: <01be01c38cab$f7436030$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> X-Mailer: VM 7.14 under Emacs 21.2.1 From: Juha Heinanen Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit since i don't anymore have a sponsor for vpls related work, someone else would need to be an editor for any radius based discovery draft. if something is kept from my drafts, i could be listed as a co-author. -- juha From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 7 17:09:04 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA22545 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:09:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6z4U-0007v9-1B for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:08:44 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h97L8gGf030443 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:08:42 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6z4T-0007uw-Ic for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:08:41 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA22525 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:08:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6z3p-0007sa-67; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:08:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A6z3M-0007md-Bv for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:07:34 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA22501 for ; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 17:07:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6z3J-0003qX-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:07:29 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A6z3H-0003qR-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 07 Oct 2003 17:07:27 -0400 Received: from cisco.com (dhcp-128-107-166-106.cisco.com [128.107.166.106]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.6/8.12.6) with ESMTP id h97L6qYb027487; Tue, 7 Oct 2003 14:06:52 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <3F832AEB.60404@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 07 Oct 2003 14:06:51 -0700 From: Wei Luo User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 X-Accept-Language: en,zh-CN MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Tissa Senevirathne CC: vach.kompella@alcatel.com, Sasha@AXERRA.com, loa@pi.se, rick@rhwilder.net, narten@us.ibm.com, l2vpn@ietf.org, jh@tutpro.com, alik@AXERRA.com, sharon@AXERRA.com Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Tissa, Do you have a chance to read http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-luo-l2tpext-l2vpn-signaling-02.txt ? It uses a more generic L2TPv3 signaling scheme to cover all types of L2VPN applications including VPLS and distributed VPLS. Like the current LDP-based signaling procedure is reused for MPLS-based VPLS, the generic L2TPv3 signaling procedure can be used for setting up pseudowires for point-to-point connections or VPLS, etc. There seems to be no need to have a distinct signaling protocol extension by itself. ---Wei Tissa Senevirathne wrote: > my suggestion to WG is to seperate out RADIUS based discovery and L2TP > signaling for VPLS and dealt seperately. They appear to be two disjoint > issues and can be used independent to one another, hence seperation > allow to mature both the parts with appropriate expertise/focus. > > I have personally shared my view on L2TP signaling for VPLS through > draft-tsenevir-l2tp-vpls-00.txt. > > >> From: "Vach Kompella" >> Reply-To: >> To: "'Sasha Vainshtein'" , "'Loa Andersson'" >> >> CC: "'Rick Wilder'" , "'Thomas Narten'" >> , , , >> "'Alik Shimelmits'" , "'Sharon Galtzur'" >> >> Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> Date: Tue, 7 Oct 2003 01:21:08 -0700 >> >> Sasha, >> >> Yes, Bernard Aboba and Juha went back and forth for a while, and yes, >> the RADIUS issues were dealt with. We now have a document which had >> substantial support but no champion/editor. What we are suggesting is >> that the interested parties take up the draft and continue to work on >> it. Once the editor is found, we have no problem making it a working >> group document. It is not required that Juha be the editor (though we >> would like to see him get the due credit). He pretty much said that, as >> be bowed out of ppvpn, that he was hoping someone else would carry the >> ball. >> >> -Vach >> >> > -----Original Message----- >> > From: Sasha Vainshtein [mailto:Sasha@AXERRA.com] >> > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 1:12 AM >> > To: 'Loa Andersson' >> > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten; >> > l2vpn@ietf.org; 'jh@tutpro.com'; Alik Shimelmits; Sharon Galtzur >> > Subject: RE: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> > >> > >> > Loa and all, >> > Thank you for a prompt response. >> > Please see also some comments inline. >> > >> > With best regards, >> > Sasha Vainshtein >> > email: sasha@axerra.com >> > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) >> > +972-8-9254948 (res.) >> > +972-58-674833 (cell.) >> > >> > >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] >> > > Sent: Tuesday, October 07, 2003 9:00 AM >> > > To: Sasha Vainshtein; l2vpn@ietf.org >> > > Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten >> > > Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> > > >> > > >> > > Sasha, >> > > >> > > there were two reasons >> > > >> > > - it is not really competing for the same solutions space >> > [Sasha] I agree - it does not, since, in its present form, >> > it describes a way to provide a VPLS solution over an IP >> > (not necessarily MPLS-enabled) network. >> > > - it was our impression that the interest for this draft >> > > had faded, when no new editor were found >> > > >> > [Sasha] I have probably missed something. I remember a >> > prolonged discussion (involving a RADIUS expert) wrt >> > specifics of using >> > RADIUS as an auto-discovery mechanism. AFAIK, the last update >> > to the RADIUS discovery draft has covered most (possibly) all >> > open issues in this area. >> > > >> > > However, we (wg co-chairs) are quite happy that it is >> > brought back on >> > > the arena and would encourage the co-author to get together and >> > > suggest a new document editor amomng themselves, alt. ask us to >> > > appoint one if one can't be found among the co-authors. >> > > >> > [Sasha] AFAIK, the last two drafts have been authored by Juha >> > without any co-authors. Did I miss something? >> > > >> > > Once we have the editor, we would be happy to discuss next steps, >> > > including making it a wg doc. >> > > >> > > /Loa >> > > >> > > Sasha Vainshtein wrote: >> > > >> > > > Loa and all, >> > > > May I ask why the directory-based VPLS approach >> > > > (proposed by Juha Heinanen) has been left out of >> > > > even the initial list? >> > > > >> > > > With best regards, >> > > > Sasha Vainshtein >> > > > email: sasha@axerra.com >> > > > tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) >> > > > +972-8-9254948 (res.) >> > > > +972-58-674833 (cell.) >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >>-----Original Message----- >> > > >>From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] >> > > >>Sent: Thursday, October 02, 2003 5:09 PM >> > > >>To: l2vpn@ietf.org >> > > >>Cc: Vach Kompella; Rick Wilder; Thomas Narten >> > > >>Subject: consensus stattement on vpsl solutions >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>L2VPN Working group consensus statement on VPLS solutions. >> > > >> >> > > >>There has been a debate for some time about which and how >> > many VPLS >> > > >>solutions should be progressed in the L2VPN WG. This >> > started back in >> > > >>the PPVPN and several suggestions >> > > >>on how to go forward have been offered. >> > > >> >> > > >>Vpls solutions submitted to the WG include: >> > > >> >> > > >>a. CE-based Virtual Private LAN >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>b. GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE Framework >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>c. Virtual Private LAN Service >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>d. Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>The CE-based solution is not included in the working >> > group charter. >> > > >> >> > > >>Of the remaining three proposals all three are within charter and >> > > >>they specify similar functionality. Opinions on how the WG should >> > > >>proceed with these proposals, however, differ widely. There is a >> > > >>smaller group that says "Yes, lets do everything!", >> > groups that are >> > > >>very much in favor one particular solutions, and a group >> > that says >> > > >>"Lets take the two most popular and bring them to the >> > market and let >> > > >>the market decide!" >> > > >> >> > > >>We have discussed how to define working group consensus >> > and find a >> > > >>way forward, that is acceptable both for the working >> > group and for >> > > >>the IETF as a standards organization. >> > > >> >> > > >>These are our conclusions: >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>The generalized (b) solution has only weak support as has been >> > > >>documented in the working group meetings and on the >> > mailing list. We >> > > >>will not progress this solution further. However, there are >> > > >>interesting parts of the solution that, e.g. the discussion on >> > > >>scaling, so we recommend that the authors work with >> > authors of the >> > > >>other solutions to capture these parts of (b) in other >> > > solutions >> > > >>documents or to publish this material as IDs in their own right. >> > > >> >> > > >>The bgp (c) and ldp (d) proposals have such support that under >> > > >>"normal circumstances" (i.e. no competing proposal) they >> > would have >> > > >>been accepted as working group documents and rapidly >> > progressed to >> > > >>Proposed Standard. Both are implemented and deployed. >> > > >> >> > > >>The functional difference between (c) and (d) is not >> > large, however >> > > >>they have taken their starting point in two different networking >> > > >>scenarios. (c) is mostly directed towards networks based >> > on routers >> > > >>that run a full suite of the Internet Protocols, while >> > (d) takes as >> > > >>a starting point that it shall be possible to run also on >> > equipment >> > > >>that do not have all those protocols available or deployable. We >> > > >>have therefore decided that there is >> > > enough support >> > > >>in the WG for each of these two solutions and enough of a delta >> > > >>between them that the working group should progress both solutions >> > > >>to proposed standard. >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>In summary, the L2VPN working group co-chairs finds: >> > > >> >> > > >>- that "CE-based Virtual Private LAN" on one side has very little >> > > >> support and on the other is not within charter, and >> > will therfor >> > > >> not be considered as an option for the working group vpls >> > > >> solution. >> > > >> >> > > >>- that the "GVPLS/LPE - Generalized VPLS Solution based on LPE >> > > >> Framework" has not enough support in the working group to be >> > > >> a candidate for a working group solutions on the vpls >> > > >> >> > > >>- that there are interesting parts and discussion within this >> > > >> draft that should be captured and either incorporated in the >> > > >> working group vpls solution(s) or released as an ID in its own >> > > >> right >> > > >> >> > > >>- that both "Virtual Private LAN Service (c) and "Virtual >> > > Private LAN >> > > >> Services over MPLS" (d) has enough support to be progressed >> > > >> towards Proposed Standard in their own right >> > > >> >> > > >>- that there is a networking scenario delta that motivates the >> > > >> differences between these two solutions >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>Vach Rick Loa >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >>-- >> > > >>Loa Andersson >> > > >> >> > > >>Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 >> > > >>Email loa@pi.se >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > >> >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > -- >> > > Loa Andersson >> > > >> > > Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 >> > > Email loa@pi.se >> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > _________________________________________________________________ > Instant message with integrated webcam using MSN Messenger 6.0. Try it > now FREE! http://msnmessenger-download.com > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 8 14:56:26 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02754 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:56:26 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7JTh-00024S-6E for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:56:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h98Iu5n6007954 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:56:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7JTg-00024D-Vz for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:56:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02741 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7JTe-0002o3-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:56:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7JTd-0002nw-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:56:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7JTd-00023i-Hm; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A7JTa-00023U-Jd for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:55:59 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02736 for ; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 14:55:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7JTX-0002nr-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:55:55 -0400 Received: from smtp1.fre.skanova.net ([195.67.227.94]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A7JTX-0002no-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 08 Oct 2003 14:55:55 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp1.fre.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h98ItI34007153; Wed, 8 Oct 2003 20:55:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F845D9A.2080301@pi.se> Date: Wed, 08 Oct 2003 20:55:22 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Juha Heinanen CC: vach.kompella@alcatel.com, "'Sasha Vainshtein'" , "'Rick Wilder'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , l2vpn@ietf.org, "'Alik Shimelmits'" , "'Sharon Galtzur'" Subject: Re: consensus stattement on vpls solutions References: <01be01c38cab$f7436030$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> <16258.38345.364363.567439@harjus.tutpro.com> In-Reply-To: <16258.38345.364363.567439@harjus.tutpro.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Juha, thanks - I'm pretty much sure that everything will be kept from your work on this. Sasha, I don't know for sure but I thought that Juhas request for someone else "to carry the torch" were made in public. It seems I have made one mistake, the Heinanen-drafts are authored by Juha only, so my call to the co-authors was futile. Might be that single author-drafts are rare nowadays ;) and I just took it for granted taht there were co-authors. All, the wg co-chairs will start the process of finding a new editor, any volunteers please send an email to Vach, Rick and/or me. /Loa Juha Heinanen wrote: > since i don't anymore have a sponsor for vpls related work, someone else > would need to be an editor for any radius based discovery draft. if > something is kept from my drafts, i could be listed as a co-author. > > -- juha > > -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 10 12:22:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05632 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:22:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A801n-0006xF-3t for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:22:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9AGM7AT026727 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:22:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A801m-0006x0-VC for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:22:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05601 for ; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A801l-0005o0-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:22:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A801l-0005nu-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:22:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A801h-0006vT-B6; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:22:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A801c-0006v9-PR for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:21:56 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA05585; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:21:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A801b-0005ne-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:21:55 -0400 Received: from dgesmtp02.wcom.com ([199.249.16.17]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A801a-0005nM-00; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:21:54 -0400 Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com ([166.38.58.89]) by firewall.wcom.com (Iplanet MTA 5.2) with ESMTP id <0HMJ00M62UOG3Q@firewall.wcom.com>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:19:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dgismtp06.wcomnet.com by dgismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMJ00201UOE2U@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:19:28 +0000 (GMT) Received: from dmcdysan ([166.32.199.64]) by dgismtp06.wcomnet.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 HotFix 0.7 (built May 7 2002)) with SMTP id <0HMJ00MMIUOF6D@dgismtp06.wcomnet.com>; Fri, 10 Oct 2003 16:19:27 +0000 (GMT) Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2003 12:19:28 -0400 From: Dave McDysan Subject: MPLS 2003 Conference To: Ccamp , Pwe3 , Mpls , l2vpn@ietf.org, l3vpn@ietf.org Message-id: MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.6604 (9.0.2911.0) Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Importance: Normal X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-priority: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit MPLS 2003 International Conference Omni Shoreham Hotel, Washington D.C. October 26-28, 2003 ==================================== http://www.mpls2003.com ==================================== You are cordially invited to attend the MPLS 2003 International Conference to be held in Washington D.C. October 26-28, 2003. The 3-day event consists of highly technical sessions, tutorials, panel discussions, and exhibits. You can register for the conference at: http://www.mpls2003.com/registration.htm A limited number of rooms are available at the Omni Shoreham Hotel at special rates for conference attendees. These discounted rooms are available for only a few more days - make your reservation as soon as possible. Please MAKE SURE THAT YOU IDENTIFY YOURSELVES AS CONFERENCE ATTENDEES TO RECEIVE THE REDUCED RATES. Important Dates: --------------------- - Tutorials: October 26, 9:00am - 5:30 pm - Conference sessions: October 27-28, 8:45am-6:30pm - Exhibits: October 27-28, 8:45am-6:30pm Program: --------------------- Visit http://www.mpls2003.com/sessions.htm for abstracts and speaker bios We look forward to seeing you at the Conference. From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 13 11:58:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12526 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:58:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A955C-00007x-4o for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:58:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9DFw69J000483 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:58:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A955B-00007i-WE for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:58:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12508 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A955A-0004hE-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:58:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A955A-0004hA-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:58:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A9557-00007C-7I; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:58:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A954Z-00006y-P3 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA12492 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A954Y-0004gv-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:26 -0400 Received: from smtp1.fre.skanova.net ([195.67.227.94]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A954X-0004gs-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 11:57:25 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp1.fre.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9DFvMuw024071 for ; Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:57:22 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F8ACB65.4000600@pi.se> Date: Mon, 13 Oct 2003 17:57:25 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: cut-off dates Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, the cut-off date for publishing drafts before the Minneapolis meeting are approaching fast! The dead-line for new drafts are October 20th the deadline for updated draft are October 27th but DON'T wait until the last minute. /Loa -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 14:56:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05719 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:56:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwFB-0001hO-6w for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:56:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9IIu54D006524 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:56:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwFB-0001h9-0V for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:56:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05708 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:55:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwF8-0004hk-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:56:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwF7-0004hg-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:56:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwF7-0001fs-FB; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:56:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAwEx-0001eq-HD for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:55:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA05698 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwEu-0004hV-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:55:48 -0400 Received: from smtp4.hy.skanova.net ([195.67.199.133]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAwEt-0004hS-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 14:55:48 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp4.hy.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9IItaju020743; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:55:36 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F918CA9.7050908@pi.se> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 20:55:37 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l2vpn@ietf.org CC: "Vach Kompella" , Rick Wilder Subject: ll2vpn agenda for Minneapolis Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, please send agenda requests to Rick, Vach and me. We want status reports on all the wg docs, the editors may do either by sending a two-liner to us and we'll in the wg status report, or ask for a time-slot on the agenda. /Loa -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Sat Oct 18 17:49:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10118 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:49:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAywZ-00022t-MV for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:49:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9ILn3rW007856 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:49:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAywZ-00022d-Ei for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:49:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10110 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:48:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAywW-0007Cd-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:49:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAywW-0007Ca-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:49:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAywX-00021s-IE; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:49:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AAywF-000202-Nx for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:48:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10107 for ; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:48:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAywD-0007CX-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:48:41 -0400 Received: from smtp7.hy.skanova.net ([195.67.199.140]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AAywC-0007CU-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 17:48:40 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp7.hy.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9ILmWaG011639; Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:48:32 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F91B531.8090307@pi.se> Date: Sat, 18 Oct 2003 23:48:33 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l2vpn@ietf.org CC: "Vach Kompella" , Rick Wilder , Thomas Narten Subject: editors for L2TP based vpls and RADIUS as PE discovery mechansim Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Working Group, in order to take the work started by Juha on an L2TP based vpls and the use of RADIUS as PE discovery mechanism we have assigned editors for these drafts. Greg Weber will take on the editorship for draft-heinanen-radius-pe-discovery-04.txt Mark Townsley and Stephen Bailey will act as co-editors for draft-heinanen-radius-l2tp-vpls-00.txt Even though it might be a bit short of time to have updated drafts in time for the Minneapolis meeting (take it as a cahllenge :) ) we would like to have editor reports (issues and plans) for the two drafts in Minneapolis. Please join us in our thanks to Mark, Greg and Steph for their willingness to take this on. Loa, Vach and Rick. -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 08:45:37 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA23815 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:45:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZPK-0005iu-Sj for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:45:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KCjAcE021974 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:45:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZPI-0005iL-Qy for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:45:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA23803 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:44:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZPH-0007Zg-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:45:07 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZPH-0007Zc-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:45:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZPC-0005fu-Ek; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZOs-0005bC-Nc for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:44:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA23797 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:44:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZOp-0007ZY-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:44:39 -0400 Received: from [62.90.130.2] (helo=ilmail1.atrica.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZOp-0007ZV-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 08:44:39 -0400 Content-Class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: What has happened to bandwidth management in VPLS? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1255" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 14:44:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 Message-ID: Thread-Topic: What has happened to bandwidth management in VPLS? thread-index: AcOXB+svuvnvzFyTQM2R1IHDmw6cFQ== From: "Dror Caspi" To: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, I noticed that about two years ago there was a draft-augustyn-vpls-bw-00 = that discussed bandwidth management in VPLS networks. However, I = haven't been able to find any reference or discussion about this issue = that is newer. So I wonder whether this has been removed from the = agenda. I would thank anyone who could point me to discussions, drafts = etc. on VPLS bandwidth management, within the IETF or elsewhere. Dror Dror Caspi Atrica Inc. mailto:dror_caspi@atrica.com =20 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 09:08:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24826 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZlY-0003lk-7O for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KD873X014474 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZlX-0003kt-3A for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24810 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZlV-0007mk-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZlV-0007mh-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZlS-0003jU-OL; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:08:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZlA-0003YK-0B for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA24800 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZl8-0007ma-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:42 -0400 Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABZl7-0007mS-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:41 -0400 Received: from 65-78-18-82.c3-0.nwt-ubr2.sbo-nwt.ma.cable.rcn.com ([65.78.18.82] helo=vega.nxp.com) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with esmtp (Exim 3.35 #4) id 1ABZl2-0000eU-00; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:36 -0400 Received: from vega.nxp.com ([192.168.111.6] helo=nxp.com) by vega.nxp.com with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABZl2-00042M-87; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3F93DE13.6050606@nxp.com> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 09:07:31 -0400 From: Waldemar Augustyn User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; U; Linux i686; en-US; rv:1.5) Gecko/20031007 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dror Caspi CC: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: What has happened to bandwidth management in VPLS? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1255; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit It's all about industry's interest. At that time, there was not a lot of interest in VPLS, much less in its bandwidth management. I could re-issue the draft if there is enough support for it. Waldemar Dror Caspi wrote: >Hi, > >I noticed that about two years ago there was a draft-augustyn-vpls-bw-00 that discussed bandwidth management in VPLS networks. However, I haven't been able to find any reference or discussion about this issue that is newer. So I wonder whether this has been removed from the agenda. I would thank anyone who could point me to discussions, drafts etc. on VPLS bandwidth management, within the IETF or elsewhere. > >Dror > >Dror Caspi >Atrica Inc. >mailto:dror_caspi@atrica.com > > > > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Oct 20 12:33:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02864 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:33:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcxu-0007Oy-NC for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:33:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9KGX6pN028446 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:33:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcxu-0007Oj-IL for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:33:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02838 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:32:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcxs-00024h-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:33:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcxs-00024c-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:33:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcxp-0007N5-K4; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:33:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABcws-0007Co-W8 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:32:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02819 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:31:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcwr-000248-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:32:01 -0400 Received: from smtp7.hy.skanova.net ([195.67.199.140]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABcwq-000244-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 12:32:00 -0400 Received: from pi.se (h45n1fls31o888.telia.com [213.67.172.45]) by smtp7.hy.skanova.net (8.12.10/8.12.10) with ESMTP id h9KGVqa0015715 for ; Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:31:53 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3F940DCF.7010301@pi.se> Date: Mon, 20 Oct 2003 18:31:11 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: minneapolis wg agenda Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, I've started to build the IETF58 l2vpn agenda at: http://urax.utfors.net/~loa/l2vpn-agenda.htm Note this is so far just a collection of the agenda slots requests. If your request is not there, ping me again. /Loa -- Loa Andersson Mobile +46 739 81 21 64 Email loa@pi.se From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 21 10:33:39 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20562 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxZY-0003pe-EN for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9LEXKOS014730 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxZY-0003pV-AO for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20510 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxZU-0004AO-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:16 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxZU-0004AK-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:16 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxZF-0003kX-Gw; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:33:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ABxYI-0003aK-1y for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:32:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA20332 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:31:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxYF-00046q-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:31:59 -0400 Received: from ihemail2.lucent.com ([192.11.222.163] helo=ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ABxYE-00045h-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:31:58 -0400 Received: from nj7460exch002h.wins.lucent.com (h135-17-42-35.lucent.com [135.17.42.35]) by ihemail2.firewall.lucent.com (Switch-2.2.8/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id h9LEVNN06831 for ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 09:31:23 -0500 (CDT) Received: by nj7460exch002h.ho.lucent.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:31:22 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Busschbach, Peter B (Peter)" To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-00.txt Date: Tue, 21 Oct 2003 10:31:15 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Eric, Vasile, I have two concerns regarding section 5.5. 1. The sequence of signaling messages The document states that an N-PE must be given "A "Remote" list: {}, telling it to set up k PWs, for each U-PE, to the specified IP address." This paragraph suggests that the N-PE autonomously sets up PWs with other N-PEs, whether it has received signaling messages from U-PEs or not. However, I thought that in an earlier email exchange we had established that an N-PE would have to wait for a signaling message from a U-PE before it could send a message itself. The signaling (LDP Label Mapping) message contains parameters specific to the U-PE, such as Requested VLAN id or Maximum number of concatenated ATM cells. Because the U-PE knows these parameters and the N-PE doesn't, PW setup has to start with a U-PE sending a signaling message to an N-PE. In turn, the N-PE forwards the message to the next-hop N-PE, which forwards it to the destination U-PE. The same is true for the Label Mapping Message that flows in the reverse direction. 2. Topology discovery The document assumes that an N-PE knows exactly how many PWs will be routed through it. Presumably, it can make this determination because U-PEs are provisioned as wirtual ports on the N-PE. (The document says: "Every N-PE must be provisioned with the set of VPLS instances it supports, a VPN-id for each one, and a list of local U-PEs for each such VPLS") It is not clear to me how this would work for more complex cases. What happens in the case of a dual-homed U-PE? And what happens in the case of Inter-AS VPLS? E.g. Assume that PE1 has Border-Router 12 as its next hop to reach PE2 in AS2 and has Border Router 13 as its next hop to reach PE3 in AS3. Should PE1 be provisioned as a port on BR12 as well as on BR13? And what happens if it needs to setup a PW with PE4, which could be reached through AS2 as well as through AS3? Conclusions: It seems to me that these issues could easily be solved if we would consider a set of spliced-together PW segments as a single multi-hop PW set up with "regular" signaling means. Specifically, I believe it is wrong to assume that an N-PE can somehow make a decision that it is an intermediate hop on an end-to-end multi-hop PW. Instead, I believe that it is up to the U-PEs to decide which node is the next hop on the end-to-end path. Subsequently, an N-PE or Border Router that receives a Label Mapping Message should be able to derive from the contents of that message what the next hop is. The cleanest solution, in my mind, is that the signaling messages contain a source and destination IP address. Currently, that is not the case. The currently proposed structure for the Generelized ID FEC assumes that only application-specific parameters like VPLS id or AC-id are used. I propose that we consider to include source and destination IP addresses in the LDP Label Mapping Messages for PW setup. They could be part of the Generalized ID FEC or could be contained in another TLV (e.g. ERO). Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org [mailto:Internet-Drafts@ietf.org] > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 10:40 AM > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-00.txt > > > A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line > Internet-Drafts directories. > This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private > Networks Working Group of the IETF. > > Title : Provisioning Models and Endpoint > Identifiers in L2VPN > Signaling > Author(s) : E. Rosen, V. Radoaca > Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-00.txt > Pages : 22 > Date : 2003-9-5 > > [PWE3-CONTROL] specifies a 'signaling protocol' which uses extensions > of LDP [RFC 3036] to set up and maintain pseudowires [PWE3-ARCH]. > Like any protocol which sets up connections, the signaling protocol > provides a method by which each endpoint can identify the other. > [L2VPN-FW] describes a number of different ways in which sets of > pseudowires may be combined together into 'Provider Provisioned Layer > 2 VPNs' (L2 PPVPNs, or L2VPNs), resulting in a number of different > kinds of L2VPN. Different kinds of L2VPN may have different > 'provisioning models', i.e., different models for what information > needs to be configured in what entities. Once configured, the > provisioning information is distributed by a 'discovery process', and > once the information is discovered, the signaling protocol is > automatically invoked to set up the required pseudowires. The > semantics of the endpoint identifiers which the signaling protocol > uses for a particular type of L2VPN are determined by the > provisioning model. This document specifies a number of PPVPN > provisioning models, and specifies the semantic structure of the > endpoint identifiers required. It further specifies how the endpoint > identifiers are carried in the 'Generalized Identifier FEC' of > [PWE3-CONTROL]. It is believed that the specified identifiers can > also be carried within the L2TP signaling protocol, though this is > currently not specified. > > A URL for this Internet-Draft is: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-00.txt > > To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to > ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body > of the message. > > Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login > with the username > "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, > type "cd internet-drafts" and then > "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-00.txt". > > A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in > http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html > or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt > > > Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. > > Send a message to: > mailserv@ietf.org. > In the body type: > "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-00.txt". > > NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in > MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this > feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" > command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or > a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant > mail readers > exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with > "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split > up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on > how to manipulate these messages. > > > Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader > implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the > Internet-Draft. > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 10:53:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27177 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgpl-0007iI-Nz for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NEr59C029646 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgpk-0007i5-U1 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27145 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:52:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgpi-0001gd-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgph-0001gZ-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgph-0007hG-Fq; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:53:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1ACgp5-0007aE-Au for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:52:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA27107 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:52:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgp2-0001fq-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:52:20 -0400 Received: from mta4.wss.scd.yahoo.com ([66.218.85.35]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1ACgp2-0001ew-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:52:20 -0400 Received: from Isovaio002 (65.213.193.35) by mta4.wss.scd.yahoo.com (7.0.016) (authenticated as azadeh@isocore.com) id 3F61639E0113994F for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 07:51:49 -0700 From: "Ali Nabi Zadeh" To: Subject: MPLS 2003 (Washington D.C., Oct 26-28) - Last Call for Participation Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 10:51:45 -0400 Message-ID: <000001c39975$2e545d10$23c1d541@Isovaio002> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0001_01C39953.A742BD10" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.2627 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C39953.A742BD10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this call for participation. ====================================== MPLS 2003 International Conference Omni Shoreham Hotel, Washington D.C. October 26-28, 2003 ====================================== http://www.mpls2003.com ====================================== You are cordially invited to attend the MPLS 2003 International Conference to be held in Washington D.C. October 26-28, 2003. The 3-day event consists of highly technical sessions, tutorials, panel discussions, and exhibits. Registration for the conference is now open. Early registration discounts are extremely lucrative and are valid for a limited time only. To register, go to: http://www.mpls2003.com/registration.htm Important Dates: --------------------- - Early Registration Rates Cut-Off Date: September 30 - Tutorials: October 26, 9:00am - 5:30 pm - Conference sessions: October 27-28, 8:45am-6:30pm - Exhibits: October 27-28, 8:45am-6:30pm Program (visit http://www.mpls2003.com/sessions.htm for details): Sunday October 26 ------------------ Tutorial 1: Introduction to MPLS Tutorial 2: VPNs Tutorial 3: Layer 2 VPNs/VPLS Tutorial 4: MPLS Security Monday October 27 ------------------ Opening remarks - Peter Hill (BellSouth Telecommunications) & Dr. Hamid Ahmadi (AT&T Labs) Introduction - Luca Martini (Level3 Communications) Keynote Session: Convergence (Service Provider's Perspective) - What is the Role of MPLS in Network Convergence? - R. Spencer, BT - MPLS Convergence Strategies - R. Moignard, France Telecom - MPLS: The Catalyst of Convergence? - C. Masiero, Equant Session: OAM - New Developments in MPLS and IP OAM - G. Swallow, Cisco Systems - Network Management of MPLS-based VPNs - K. Melden, Juniper Networks - MPLS Convergence, Control and OAM Implications - D. Allan, Nortel Networks - Service OA&M for MPLS VPNs - V. Kompella, Alcatel Session: Layer 2 Transport & Interworking over MPLS - VPLS - Remember LANE? - A. Sayeed, Cisco Systems - VPLS - K. Kompella, Juniper Networks - Transitioning a Profitable Service Portfolio to an MPLS Core Network - M. Nielsen, Lucent Technologies - VPLS Provisioning, Performance and Scalability: Problems and Solutions - V. Radoaca, Nortel Networks Session: L2/L3 VPNs - BGP-VPN Services: Lessons Learned - R. Bonica, MCI - Design and Deploy Scalable Inter-AS MPLS VPNs - L. Fang, AT&T - L2-MPLS Networks - Y. Sato, NTT Communications - MPLS in Multi-AS Networks - R. Doukov, Flag Telecom PANEL: MPLS as a Fusing Technology - Chair: P. Hill, VP Technology Planning & Deployment, BellSouth Telecommunications In this panel session, service providers will discuss issues surrounding convergence and will present their views and experience on MPLS as a way to fuse multiple networks together. Specifically, are there favorable economics; do the technical approaches work, when might they be standardized and what are the limitations. Tuesday, October 28 ------------------- Keynote Lessons Learned - Yakov Rekhter (Juniper Networks) Critical Issues for Network Consolidation - Daniel Awduche (MCI) Session: Reliability - Next Generation Core Routers: Defining IP Reliability and Resiliency - L. Mamakos, Hyperchip - High Resiliency MPLS Network Design - S. Poretsky, Quarry Technologies - Hardening MPLS-based Networks - S. Vogelsang, Laurel Networks Session: IP Optical Integration - Optical Market Forces on GMPLS - K. Sage, Cisco Systems - Multiservice Metro Networks in Sweden and Their Plans to Go GMPLS - L. Andersson - Photonic Internet Laboratory: New Challenges for Future Photonic Network- N. Yamanaka, NTT - Generalized VPNs (GVPNs) - H. Ould-Brahim, Nortel Networks Session: New MPLS Features - Scalable Multicast MPLS Technology for Next Generation Broadband Services Network - S. Yasukawa, NTT - Multicast Traffic Engineering with MPLS - R. Aggarwal, Juniper Networks - LDP Fast Convergence - A. Atlas, Avici Systems - How to secure an MPLS/VPN network - M. Behringer, Cisco Systems - Integration of IPv6 and IPv6 VPN Services over MPLS - F. Le Faucheur, Cisco Systems Session: Traffic Engineering - Inter-area and Inter-AS MPLS Traffic Engineering - JP Vasseur, Cisco Systems - Traffic Engineering in Hierarchical Multiprovider Networks - G. Apostolopoulos, Redback Networks - Multi-Region (multiarea/multiAS) Traffic Engineering - A. Ayyangar, Juniper Networks - Advanced MPLS Application Testing - B. Miller, IXIA Session: Service & Provisioning Issues - MPLS Network Management: Enterprise Deployment Management - T. Nadeau, Cisco Systems - Attracting New Enterprise Customers with MPLS VPN Services - D. Christophe, Lucent Technologies - MPLS Beyond Service Provider Cores - A. Malis, Tellabs - Critical Quality of Service Issues in MPLS Networks - J. Brayley, Laurel Networks - Practical Implementation of Tools Allied to the Network Management of IP/MPLS-based Networks - P. Beaumont, WANDL ------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C39953.A742BD10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message
 
   =20 Apologies if you receive multiple copies of this call for=20 participation.

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
MPLS 2003 International Conference
Omni Shoreham Hotel, Washington D.C.
October 26-28,=20 2003
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
  &nb= sp; http://www.mpls2003.com
=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

You=20 are cordially invited to attend the MPLS 2003 International Conference = to be=20 held in Washington D.C. October 26-28, 2003. The 3-day event consists of = highly=20 technical sessions, tutorials, panel discussions, and=20 exhibits.

Registration for the conference is now open. Early = registration=20 discounts are extremely lucrative and are valid for a limited time only. = To=20 register, go to:

 http://www.mpls2003.com= /registration.htm

Important Dates:
---------------------
- = Early=20 Registration Rates Cut-Off Date: September 30
- Tutorials: October = 26, 9:00am=20 - 5:30 pm
- Conference sessions: October 27-28, 8:45am-6:30pm
- = Exhibits:=20 October 27-28, 8:45am-6:30pm

Program (visit http://www.mpls2003.com/ses= sions.htm=20 for details):

Sunday October = 26
------------------
 Tutorial=20 1: Introduction to MPLS
 Tutorial 2: VPNs
 Tutorial 3: = Layer 2=20 VPNs/VPLS
 Tutorial 4: MPLS Security

Monday=20 October 27
------------------
 Opening=20 remarks - Peter = Hill=20 (BellSouth Telecommunications) & Dr. Hamid Ahmadi (AT&T = Labs)
 Introduction - Luca Martini (Level3=20 Communications)
 Keynote

 Session: Convergence (Service Provider's=20 Perspective) 
  - What is the Role of MPLS in = Network=20 Convergence? - R. Spencer, BT
  - MPLS Convergence Strategies - = R.=20 Moignard, France Telecom
  - MPLS: The Catalyst of Convergence? = - C.=20 Masiero, Equant

 Session:=20 OAM 
  - New Developments in MPLS and IP OAM = - G.=20 Swallow, Cisco Systems
  - Network Management of MPLS-based VPNs = - K.=20 Melden, Juniper Networks
  - MPLS Convergence, Control and OAM=20 Implications - D. Allan, Nortel Networks
  - Service OA&M = for MPLS=20 VPNs - V. Kompella, Alcatel

 Session: = Layer 2=20 Transport & Interworking over MPLS 
  - VPLS - = Remember=20 LANE? - A. Sayeed, Cisco Systems
  - VPLS - K. Kompella, Juniper = Networks
  - Transitioning a Profitable Service Portfolio to an = MPLS=20 Core Network - M. Nielsen, Lucent Technologies
  - VPLS = Provisioning,=20 Performance and Scalability: Problems and Solutions - V. Radoaca, Nortel = Networks

 Session: L2/L3=20 VPNs 
  - BGP-VPN Services: Lessons Learned - R. = Bonica,=20 MCI
  - Design and Deploy Scalable Inter-AS MPLS VPNs - L. Fang, = AT&T
  - L2-MPLS Networks - Y. Sato, NTT = Communications
  -=20 MPLS in Multi-AS Networks - R. Doukov, Flag Telecom

 PANEL: MPLS as a Fusing = Technology 
  -=20 Chair: P. Hill, VP Technology Planning & Deployment, BellSouth=20 Telecommunications

 In this panel session, service providers = will=20 discuss issues surrounding convergence and will present their views and=20 experience on MPLS as a way to fuse multiple networks together. = Specifically,=20 are there favorable economics; do the technical approaches work, when = might they=20 be standardized and what are the limitations.

Tuesday, October = 28
-------------------
 Keynote
 Lessons Learned - Yakov = Rekhter=20 (Juniper Networks)
 Critical Issues for Network Consolidation - = Daniel=20 Awduche (MCI)

 Session:=20 Reliability 
  - Next Generation Core Routers: = Defining IP=20 Reliability and Resiliency - L. Mamakos, Hyperchip
  - High = Resiliency=20 MPLS Network Design - S. Poretsky, Quarry Technologies
  - = Hardening=20 MPLS-based Networks - S. Vogelsang, Laurel Networks

 Session: IP Optical=20 Integration 
  - Optical Market Forces on = GMPLS - K.=20 Sage, Cisco Systems
  - Multiservice Metro Networks in Sweden = and Their=20 Plans to Go GMPLS - L. Andersson
  - Photonic Internet = Laboratory: New=20 Challenges for Future Photonic Network- N. Yamanaka, NTT
  - = Generalized=20 VPNs (GVPNs) - H. Ould-Brahim, Nortel Networks

 Session: New MPLS = Features 
  -=20 Scalable Multicast MPLS Technology for Next Generation Broadband = Services=20 Network - S. Yasukawa, NTT
  - Multicast Traffic Engineering = with MPLS -=20 R. Aggarwal, Juniper Networks
  - LDP Fast Convergence - A. = Atlas, Avici=20 Systems
  - How to secure an MPLS/VPN network - M. Behringer, = Cisco=20 Systems
  - Integration of IPv6 and IPv6 VPN Services over MPLS = - F. Le=20 Faucheur, Cisco Systems

 Session: Traffic = Engineering 
  -=20 Inter-area and Inter-AS MPLS Traffic Engineering - JP Vasseur, Cisco=20 Systems
  - Traffic Engineering in Hierarchical Multiprovider = Networks -=20 G. Apostolopoulos, Redback Networks
  - Multi-Region = (multiarea/multiAS)=20 Traffic Engineering - A. Ayyangar, Juniper Networks
  - Advanced = MPLS=20 Application Testing - B. Miller, IXIA

 Session: Service & Provisioning=20 Issues 
  - MPLS Network Management: = Enterprise=20 Deployment Management - T. Nadeau, Cisco Systems
  - Attracting = New=20 Enterprise Customers with MPLS VPN Services - D. Christophe, Lucent=20 Technologies
  - MPLS Beyond Service Provider Cores - A. Malis,=20 Tellabs
  - Critical Quality of Service Issues in MPLS Networks = - J.=20 Brayley, Laurel Networks
  - Practical Implementation of Tools = Allied to=20 the Network Management of IP/MPLS-based Networks - P. Beaumont,=20 WANDL

------=_NextPart_000_0001_01C39953.A742BD10-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Oct 23 11:29:23 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29175 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChOZ-0006jS-6p for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9NFT3Q5025874 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChOZ-0006jF-1J for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29151 for ; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:28:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChOY-0002Nh-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AChOX-0002Ne-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:01 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChOX-0006iN-1s; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:29:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AChNc-0006Xz-2D for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:28:04 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA29120; Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:27:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310231527.LAA29120@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-jaihyung-l2vpn-lse-00.txt Date: Thu, 23 Oct 2003 11:27:53 -0400 Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. Title : A Label Switching Technique for Ethernet Frame Transmission Author(s) : J. Cho Filename : draft-jaihyung-l2vpn-lse-00.txt Pages : 16 Date : 2003-10-23 LSE (Label Switched Ethernet) is a label switching technique for transmission of Ethernet frame. The method offers not only L2VPN connectivity but it also provides features for dynamic connection establishment and resource reservation. LSE does not require additional information fields other than 802.3 standard header because it uses destination address and source address as labels. As a result, compatibility with legacy Ethernet is maintained and it provides label switching service from terminal to terminal. Equipments that support LSE are connected via Ethernet tunnel merging tree or TLSP (Tunnel LSP) tree across legacy network equipment. User terminals establish connections using modified ARP protocol. Use of merging tree structure helps reducing signaling overhead as well as improving scalability of LSE network. LSE also provides unified mechanism for unicasting, multicasting and wireless terminal mobility. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-jaihyung-l2vpn-lse-00.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-jaihyung-l2vpn-lse-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-jaihyung-l2vpn-lse-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23105150.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-jaihyung-l2vpn-lse-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-jaihyung-l2vpn-lse-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-23105150.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 10:51:41 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05427 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD3He-0002bp-Mk for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:22 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OEpM8E010025 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD3He-0002bc-Ji for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05295 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD3Hc-0004M0-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:20 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD3Hb-0004Lx-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:19 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD3HL-0002W9-5a; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:51:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD3Gd-0002SR-Fn for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:50:19 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA05162; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:50:07 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200310241450.KAA05162@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: IETF-Announce: ; Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Reply-to: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-03.txt Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 10:50:06 -0400 Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : L2VPN Framework Author(s) : L. Andersson, E. Rosen Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-03.txt Pages : 43 Date : 2003-10-23 This document provides a framework for Layer 2 Provider Provisioned Virtual Private Networks (Layer 2 PPVPNs, or L2VPNs). This framework is intended to aid in standardizing protocols and mechanisms to support interoperable Layer 2 PPVPNs. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-03.txt To remove yourself from the IETF Announcement list, send a message to ietf-announce-request with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-24103545.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2003-10-24103545.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 24 11:45:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10972 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:45:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD47f-0006QD-IQ for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:45:07 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9OFj7KY024677 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:45:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD47e-0006Pw-Hx for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:45:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10922 for ; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:44:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD47d-0006Fa-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:45:05 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD47c-0006FT-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:45:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD47a-0006Nf-0A; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:45:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AD46o-0006H8-QD for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:44:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA10790; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:44:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD46n-0006BN-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:44:13 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=merlot.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AD46m-00069s-00; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:44:13 -0400 Received: from rcallon-lt.juniper.net (securepptp032.static.jnpr.net [172.24.253.32]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id h9OFhfi94039; Fri, 24 Oct 2003 08:43:41 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from rcallon@juniper.net) Message-Id: <4.3.2.20031024113949.02b3ee10@zircon.juniper.net> X-Sender: rcallon@zircon.juniper.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3 Date: Fri, 24 Oct 2003 11:42:08 -0400 To: l3vpn@ietf.org, l2vpn@ietf.org From: Ross Callon Subject: draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt as working group draft Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , There appears to be broad consensus on the *content* of this draft (there were no objections to any of the content). We don't have any clear direction from the working group on the preferred distribution of text between documents. This is however an editorial issue. Some distribution of the content between documents is necessary in order to make progress on other documents in a timely fashion. Given agreement on content, and in the absence of any clear direction from the working group on the editorial distribution of text between documents, the chairs would prefer to go with the editorial distribution recommended by the document authors. Therefore, we will accept draft-andersson-ppvpn-terminology-04.txt as an l3vpn working group document. Ross, Ron, and Rick From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Oct 28 11:58:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07902 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:58:28 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXAV-00040N-Ho for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:58:08 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9SGw7k9015393 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:58:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXAV-00040C-9u for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:58:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA07880 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:57:55 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXAU-000154-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:58:06 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEXAT-000150-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:58:05 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEXAP-0003zU-Ep; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 11:58:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEUR1-0007Pc-UJ for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:03:00 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id JAA20656 for ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:02:48 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEUR0-00037P-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:02:58 -0500 Received: from howler.tri.sbc.com ([205.173.58.4]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEUQz-00037L-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 09:02:57 -0500 Received: from sbctri.tri.sbc.com (mayhem-webdmz.tri.sbc.com [144.60.9.139]) by howler.tri.sbc.com (8.12.10/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h9SE2rd3024802; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:02:54 -0600 (CST) Received: from TRIMAIL2.ad.tri.sbc.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sbctri.tri.sbc.com (8.11.6+Sun/8.9.3) with ESMTP id h9SE2rW02826; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:02:53 -0600 (CST) X-Authentication-Warning: sbctri.tri.sbc.com: iscan owned process doing -bs Received: by trimail2 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id ; Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:02:52 -0600 Message-ID: <905A1C4ABF353F4C8CC16FA9F53DD0D61D603C@trimail2> From: "Serbest, Yetik" To: "'Hemant Kumar Rath'" , waldemar@nxp.com Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-00.txt (section 3.3) Date: Tue, 28 Oct 2003 08:02:50 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Hemant, A PE forwards payload elements from/to an AC to/from a pseudowire. Please check out draft-ietf-pwe3-arch-06.txt for the reference model. Yes the PE participates in assigning AC identifier. Please look at draft-ietf-pwe3-control-protocol-04.txt. ("Every Forwarder in a PE must be associated with an Attachment Identifier (AI), either through configuration or through some algorithm. The Attachment Identifier must be unique in the context of the PE router in which the Forwarder resides. The combination must be globally unique.") As for your VLAN question, if your question is about service delimiting VLANs, then the above applies. Thanks, Yetik PS. I am redirecting your mail to L2VPN as PPVPN is no more. -----Original Message----- From: Hemant Kumar Rath [mailto:hemantr@ee.iitb.ac.in] Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 10:48 PM To: waldemar@nxp.com; serbest@tri.sbc.com Cc: ppvpn@ppvpn.francetelecom.com Subject: draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-00.txt (section 3.3) Hi, Just one query... In the draft " draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-00.txt " it is mentioned in the section 3.3 as: 3.3. VPWS - Para 2: Each PE device is responsible for allocating customer Layer 2 frames to the appropriate VPWS and for proper forwarding to the intended destinations. 1. Do U mean that PE should participate in assigning the Attachment Circuit (AC) identifcation number? 2. Is PE participate in the V-ID (VLAN Id) distribution to CE? Regards and thanks, -Hemant -- Hemant Kumar Rath A-501 / Hostel-12 IIT-Bombay Ph: 9820717805 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Oct 29 15:43:25 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA05096 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:43:25 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEx9k-00021E-Bk for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:43:05 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9TKh4B5007756 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:43:04 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEx9k-000211-4r for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:43:04 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA05075 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:42:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEx9i-0002xr-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:43:02 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEx9i-0002xm-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:43:02 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEx9h-0001zn-1H; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:43:01 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AEx8w-0001xk-P6 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:42:15 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA05057 for ; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:42:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEx8v-0002xC-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:42:13 -0500 Received: from smtp015.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.173.59]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AEx8u-0002x2-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 29 Oct 2003 15:42:12 -0500 Received: from adsl-63-206-88-169.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net (HELO METANOIA) (vsharma87@63.206.88.169 with login) by smtp.mail.vip.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 29 Oct 2003 20:42:11 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Vishal Sharma" To: "CCAMP" , "MPLS" , "L2PPVPN" , "L3PPVPN" , "PWE3" , Cc: "Monique J. Morrow" , "Tom Nadeau" Subject: Update: "OAM in MPLS-based Networks": IEEE Comm. Mag. Sp. Issue Date: Wed, 29 Oct 2003 12:39:42 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4910.0300 Importance: Normal Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, The deadline for this FT issue is fast approaching, and this is for those who may have either missed the earlier announcements or have been in "thinking about it" mode. :-) We really appreciate the interest the issue has received, and are excited to have already received titles and abstracts from several contributors. If you have been thinking about contributing, please send us, the title and abstract for your contribution at the earliest. The thoughts and insights of the community are what make the issues such as this valuable, and so far we seem to be making very good progress on that front. Again, thanks to those who are already contributing, and we look forward to additional participation! Regards, -Vishal, Monique, Tom PS: The submission process is automated and very easy. Pl. check instructions below. ==================================================================== CALL FOR PAPERS IEEE Communications Magazine Feature Topic on "OAM in MPLS-Based Networks" ********************************************** As carriers and service providers converge multiple services and associated networks on to an MPLS-based infrastructure, OAM functionality becomes pivotal for enabling them to provide service level agreement (SLA) guarantees, service assurance, quality of service (QoS) assurance and overall interworking service management. The advent of new applications of MPLS such as Layer 2 Virtual Private LAN Services (VPLS) and Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks (L3VPNs) also means the emergence of added OAM requirements from operators deploying those networks. As a result, providers today require more efficient means of monitoring network health, performance, and robustness, and of quickly identifying and resolving performance problems. This is leading to the emergence of improved or novel tools and techniques, whose goal is to improve security and billing/accounting, aid in verifying QoS commitments, and reduce operating costs. Standards organizations such as the IETF and the ITU have in the recent past done significant work in this area, and this subject is also being investigated by the IEEE and the Metro Ethernet Forum. This feature topic issue of the IEEE Communications Magazine has a dual focus: to highlight operator requirements and deployment experiences with OAM in MPLS-based networks, and to present a survey of the current engineering and research developments in this area. Thus, focused tutorial and survey contributions as well as research papers are solicited on (but not limited to) the following: * Operational consequences of inadequate OAM capabilities * Service provider requirements for efficient OAM - current operational needs and future demands * Deployment experiences with OAM over MPLS-based networks * Overview or comparative analysis of different approaches/philosophies for OAM * Standards activities o Emerging architectures o New mechanisms for OAM in development (e.g. IETF LSP ping, ITU-T Y.1711, virtual circuit connection verification (VCCV)) * Platform support for OAM * OAM impact on edge services (such as metro Ethernet) using MPLS transport * Interoperability issues, interworking with other technologies (e.g. ATM) * Review of current research in the area - E.g. setting parameters for connectivity verification and their impact on LSP recovery, trade-offs between bandwidth usage by OAM traffic and efficiency of failure/anomaly detection, and results from testbed deployments or simulations On-line CFP with submission instructions can be found at: http://www.comsoc.org/pubs/commag/cfpcommag1004.htm Submission Articles should be tutorial in nature and should be written in a style comprehensible to readers outside the specialty of the article. Articles may be edited for clarity and grammatical accuracy, and will be copyedited according to the Magazine's style. Mathematical equations should not be used (in justified cases up to three simple equations could be allowed, provided the consent of the Guest Editor; more than three equations require permission from the Editor-in-Chief). Articles should have no more than 4,500 words, no more than 6 tables/figures, and no more than 15 references. Guidelines for prospective authors can be found on-line at: http://www.comsoc.org/pubs/commag/sub_guidelines.html. Please submit no later than November 30, 2003. Accepted papers will also be included in Communications Interactive (CI), the online version of Communications Magazine. Schedule: Manuscript Due: November 30, 2003 Acceptance Notification: February 28, 2004 Final Manuscript Due: April 15, 2004 Publication Date: October 2004 Guest Editors: Monique J. Morrow Cisco Systems, Inc. Glatt-com CH-8301 Glattzentrum Switzerland Email: mmorrow@cisco.com Tom Nadeau Cisco Systems, Inc. 250 Apollo Drive Chelmsford, MA 01824, USA. Email: tnadeau@cisco.com Vishal Sharma Metanoia, Inc. 1600 Villa Street, Unit 352 Mountain View, CA 94041, USA. Email: v.sharma@ieee.org About the IEEE Communications Magazine: The IEEE Comm. Mag. is the official technical publication of conferences such as Supercomm, and has the unique distinction of being the most widely read IEEE journal, with its over 50,000 paid subscribers representing key communications engineers and technical managers in our industry. More information on the IEEE Comm. Mag., may be found here: www.comsoc.org/adv/pp/Adpp2003revisedweb.ppt From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Oct 31 18:11:24 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24636 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:11:24 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFiQ7-0002Uc-OP for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:11:07 -0500 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h9VNB7rV009575 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:11:07 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFiQ7-0002UM-I7 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:11:07 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24581 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:10:53 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFiQ4-00016z-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:11:04 -0500 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFiQ4-00016v-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:11:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFiQ2-0002T1-4k; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:11:02 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1AFiPS-0002Rn-C3 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:10:26 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA24497 for ; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:10:09 -0500 (EST) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFiPN-00015x-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:10:21 -0500 Received: from mail.riverstonenet.com ([63.113.148.10] helo=riverstonenet.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1AFiPM-00015q-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 18:10:20 -0500 Received: from hongal-d2k.riverstonenet.com by riverstonenet.com (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4-Yago) id PAA26164; Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:08:11 -0800 (PST) Message-Id: <5.1.0.14.0.20031031150204.01f0de48@manet> X-Sender: hongal@manet X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2003 15:08:09 -0800 To: ostokes@extremenetworks.com, marc.lasserre@riverstonenet.com, l2vpn@ietf.org From: Thippanna Hongal Subject: draft-stokes-vkompella-ppvpn-hvpls-oam-02.txt Cc: pishwar@riverstonenet.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , hi Stokes, Below is the packet format on the wire as we understand from the draft. We have a few questins on this. Packet for the PING dmac1 (Next hop router) smac1 (Of the originating router) Etype - 8847 Transport label -|__________________ Pseudo wire Vc label ------| dmac2 (of the target mtu/pe to which the ping is targeted) smac2 (of the originating router (PE/MTU)) etype (IP 0x800) ... Mac TLV smac3 -- (??) dmac3 -- (customer's mac/spoke's mac to be pinged). a) Is the above representation correct? b) What is the value of the smac3 in the TLV. Is it mandatory ?. Should the reply take the path using the smac3 for lookup (for reply mode 5)? Pseudo Wire Connectivity verification ?. c) Is there any relation between smac2 and smac3 ?. d) We have assumed that the dmac2 is either the mac of the target MTU/PE. This is because if the customer dmac is used the packet would show up at the customer. If the router alert is used the the packet would not go beyond the PE. So is this assumption correct ?. e) pre-condition: To do a VPLS ping to verify customer MAC sitting at the remote end, we have to have a actual customer traffic flowing on the pseudo-wire, or at least some customer traffic has to be there within the 'L2 age out' time period. For VPLS ping to work, this is a pre-condition. Question is 'Is this a valid pre-condition ?', If yes, are users OK with this model of OAM ?. thanks hongal