From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 12 14:21:50 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02543 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:21:49 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BD63e-0003RC-MM for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:21:22 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3CILMsv013210 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:21:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BD63c-0003Qr-Dv for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:21:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02512 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:21:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BD63Z-0006Ra-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:21:17 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BD61i-00069x-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:19:22 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BD60V-0005tB-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:18:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BD60P-0003DL-KR; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:18:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BD5zs-0003Ch-5O for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:17:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA02361 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:17:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BD5zo-0005rz-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:17:24 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BD5yf-0005h2-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:16:14 -0400 Received: from web21412.mail.yahoo.com ([66.163.170.211]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BD5wv-0005Po-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:14:25 -0400 Message-ID: <20040412181414.95712.qmail@web21412.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.221.212.137] by web21412.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:14 PDT Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 11:14:14 -0700 (PDT) From: narasimhan g Subject: stp and draft-ietf-ppvpn-vpls-ldp-01.txt To: l2vpn@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="0-737722060-1081793654=:95049" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS, HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.60 --0-737722060-1081793654=:95049 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Hello, I have a question regarding section 11 second last paragraph ( page 21 ). It states " In this model PE-rs may need to run STP protocol ... ". My question is if the bridges in the ether access network are running STP, is there a need for the PE-rs to run STP? My reasoning is that the PE-rs is just emulating a LAN so it need not run STP. Would really appreciate any clarification/comments. thanks, narasim --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th --0-737722060-1081793654=:95049 Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Hello,
 
I have a question regarding section 11 second last paragraph ( page 21 ).  It states
 
" In this model PE-rs may need to run STP protocol ... ".
 
My question is if the bridges in the ether access network are running
STP, is there a need for the PE-rs to run STP?  My reasoning is that
the PE-rs is just emulating a LAN so it need not run STP.
 
Would really appreciate any clarification/comments.
 
thanks,
 
narasim
 

Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th --0-737722060-1081793654=:95049-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 12 19:35:02 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA25022 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:35:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDAwj-0006fy-3W for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:34:33 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3CNYXuU025662 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:34:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDAwi-0006fp-VG for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:34:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA24997 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:34:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDAwg-0004mb-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:34:30 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDAY1-00036n-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 19:09:02 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDAFf-0001HE-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:50:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDAFd-00033q-HI; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:50:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDAEn-00030P-WA for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:49:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA21921 for ; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:49:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDAEk-0001EQ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:49:06 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BD9hP-00070o-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 18:14:41 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BD9Dv-00050U-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 17:44:11 -0400 Received: from sj-core-1.cisco.com (171.71.177.237) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 12 Apr 2004 13:52:20 +0000 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-147-38.cisco.com [171.68.147.38]) by sj-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3CLhSGG012272; Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:43:28 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040412141140.0290b818@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 12 Apr 2004 14:43:28 -0700 To: narasimhan g , l2vpn@ietf.org From: Ali Sajassi Subject: Re: stp and draft-ietf-ppvpn-vpls-ldp-01.txt In-Reply-To: <20040412181414.95712.qmail@web21412.mail.yahoo.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=====================_7402944==_.ALT" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.60 --=====================_7402944==_.ALT Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed At 11:14 AM 4/12/2004 -0700, narasimhan g wrote: >Hello, > >I have a question regarding section 11 second last paragraph ( page 21 >). It states > >" In this model PE-rs may need to run STP protocol ... ". > >My question is if the bridges in the ether access network are running >STP, is there a need for the PE-rs to run STP? My reasoning is that >the PE-rs is just emulating a LAN so it need not run STP. If there exists several alternative paths through several different PE-rs for a given VPLS instance, then the PE-rs's need to participate in access network STP in order to decide which path (link or set of PWs) to block and which path to unblock for the VPLS traffic to get through over the core network. Otherwise, if they don't participate, a loop can exist among the PE-rs's. However, if the access topology is simplified as depicted in 10.2.1, then it can be done without STP as described in that section. -Ali > >Would really appreciate any clarification/comments. > >thanks, > >narasim > > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by >April 15th --=====================_7402944==_.ALT Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" At 11:14 AM 4/12/2004 -0700, narasimhan g wrote:
Hello,
 
I have a question regarding section 11 second last paragraph ( page 21 ).  It states
 
" In this model PE-rs may need to run STP protocol ... ".
 
My question is if the bridges in the ether access network are running
STP, is there a need for the PE-rs to run STP?  My reasoning is that
the PE-rs is just emulating a LAN so it need not run STP.

If there exists several alternative paths through several different PE-rs for a given VPLS instance, then the PE-rs's need to participate in access network STP in order to decide which path (link or set of PWs) to block and which path to unblock for the VPLS traffic to get through over the core network. Otherwise, if they don't participate, a loop can exist among the PE-rs's. However, if the access topology is simplified as depicted in 10.2.1, then it can be done without STP as described in that section.

-Ali

 
Would really appreciate any clarification/comments.
 
thanks,
 
narasim
 


Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th
--=====================_7402944==_.ALT-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 13 17:28:59 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10048 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:28:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDVGl-0005NA-4H for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:16:35 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3DLGZbP020632 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:16:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDUns-0006uN-EM for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:46:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA06619 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:46:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDUnp-0000fB-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:46:41 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDUgE-0007ds-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:38:52 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDUYn-0006qQ-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:31:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDToY-0004ba-UX; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:43:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDTdc-0002r4-6t for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:32:04 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA01629; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404131932.PAA01629@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:32:01 -0400 Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS Author(s) : M. Lasserre, V. Kompella Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2004-4-13 This document describes a virtual private LAN service (VPLS) solution over MPLS, also known as Transparent LAN Services (TLS). A VPLS creates an emulated LAN segment for a given set of users. It delivers a layer 2 broadcast domain that is fully capable of learning and forwarding on Ethernet MAC addresses that is closed to a given set of users. Many VPLS services can be supported from a single PE node. This document describes the control plane functions of signaling demultiplexor labels, extending [PWE3-CTRL] and rudimentary support for availability (multi-homing). It is agnostic to discovery protocols. The data plane functions of forwarding are also described, focusing, in particular, on the learning of MAC addresses. The encapsulation of VPLS packets is described by [PWE3- ETHERNET]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-13155228.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-13155228.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 13 18:21:19 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA15099 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:21:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDWB8-0002Qw-Fd for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:14:50 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3DMEoHg009336 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:14:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDVvl-00030e-8Q for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:58:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA12289 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:58:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDVvh-0000BD-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:58:53 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDVkI-0006S9-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:47:07 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDVXD-0005Jv-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:33:35 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BDVW7-0003w7-23 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:32:27 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDVIr-00072R-MK; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:18:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDUoP-00070W-AC for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:47:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA06661 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:47:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDUoL-0000hb-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:47:13 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDUgS-0007g0-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:39:05 -0400 Received: from web21410.mail.yahoo.com ([216.136.232.85]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDUZ7-0006rx-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 16:31:29 -0400 Message-ID: <20040413203120.36525.qmail@web21410.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.221.212.137] by web21410.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:31:20 PDT Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 13:31:20 -0700 (PDT) From: narasimhan g Subject: Re: stp and draft-ietf-ppvpn-vpls-ldp-01.txt To: sajassi@cisco.com, l2vpn@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040412141140.0290b818@airborne.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id QAA06662 Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.3 required=5.0 tests=AWL,FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Ali, Thanks for your response. I have reproduced the figure in 10.2.1 below for easy reference. I have added a link between MTU-s and PE2-rs so that it has three links. I have the following points. 1. Any loops among the PE-rs will be broken because of split horizon. 2. Any loop at the MTU-s will be broken by the MTU-s running STP on the three PWs/links ( The three PE-rs's would just flood any BPDUs received from the MTU-s ). Isn't this sufficient to break all loops? So the PE-rs's need to run STP only if the MTU-s is not running STP. Or am I missing something obvious? PE2-rs=20 ------=20 Third PW/link / \=20 /------------------------------| -- |=20 / | / \ |=20 CE-1 / | \B / |=20 \ / \ -- /=20 \ / /------=20 \ MTU-s / PE1-rs / |=20 \------ / ------ / | =20 / \ / / \ / | =20 | -- | Primary PW | -- |---/ |=20 | / \--|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | =20 | \B / | | \B / | | =20 \ -- \/ \ -- / ---\ | =20 ------\ ------ \ | =20 / \ \ |=20 / \ \ ------ =20 / \ / \ =20 CE-2 \ | -- |=20 \ Secondary PW | / \ |=20 - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |-\B / |=20 \ -- /=20 ------ =20 PE3-rs=20 thanks, narasim ------------------------------------------------------ Ali Sajassi wrote:At 11:14 AM 4/12/2004 -0700, narasi= mhan g wrote: Hello, =A0 I have a question regarding section 11 second last paragraph ( page 21 ).= =A0 It states =A0 " In this model PE-rs may need to run STP protocol ... ". =A0 My question is if the bridges in the ether access network are running STP, is there a need for the PE-rs to run STP?=A0 My reasoning is that the PE-rs is just emulating a LAN so it need not run STP. If there exists several alternative paths through several different PE-rs= for a given VPLS instance, then the PE-rs's need to participate in access network STP in o= rder to decide which path (link or set of PWs) to block and which path to unblock for the VPLS traf= fic to get through over the core network. Otherwise, if they don't participate, a loop can exist = among the PE-rs's. However, if the access topology is simplified as depicted in 10.2.1, then= it can be done without STP as described in that section. -Ali Would really appreciate any clarification/comments. =A0 thanks, =A0 narasim =A0 Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th=20 =09 =09 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 13 19:06:36 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA17789 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:06:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDWkU-0001pA-TJ for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:51:23 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3DMpM9v007005 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:51:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDWe3-0000fV-Q0 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:44:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA16475 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:44:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDWe0-0003Se-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:44:40 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDWOz-0002JV-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:29:11 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDWAQ-00018A-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:14:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDVtt-0002jj-Fl; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:57:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDVjK-00087C-3z for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:46:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11627 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:46:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDVjH-0006Kh-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:46:03 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDVWD-0005DZ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:32:33 -0400 Received: from av5-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net ([81.228.10.112]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDVIu-0003sB-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 17:18:48 -0400 Received: by av5-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 068E537E6E; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:18:11 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net [81.228.10.183]) by av5-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC3A337E42; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:18:10 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pi.se (h178n2fls307o1033.telia.com [81.226.61.178]) by smtp2-1-sn4.m-sp.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id B452E37E4C; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:18:10 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <407C590A.7080305@pi.se> Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:18:02 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l2vpn@ietf.org Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: wg last call on ldp and bgp based vpls solutions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Working group, we've decided to issue a working last call for the ldp and bgp based vpls solutions at the same time. Nevertheless this is not a beauty contest and the purpose is not to compare solutions, the working group has decided to progress both solutions. The working group last call and the review will be for each documents independently and on its own merits. Please send comments on the documents to the working group mailing list and the working group chairs. Take care to indicate in Subject: which document you are commenting on, and don't mix comments unnecessarily. The working group last call will end midnight April 30th, PST. The documents under review is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt and http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-bgp-01.txt /Loa, Vach and Rick -- Loa Andersson mobile +46 739 81 21 64 From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 13 19:39:28 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20030 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:39:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDXRH-0000tF-87 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:35:35 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3DNZZv3003416 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:35:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDXLC-0008NF-60 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:29:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19355 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:29:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDXLA-0007Ww-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:29:16 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDXIN-0007Cg-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:26:24 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDXF0-0006pe-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:22:54 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDXCG-0006ZH-OD; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:20:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDX3e-00053d-KQ for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:11:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA18211 for ; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:11:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDX3a-0005XR-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:11:06 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDWxK-0004x9-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 19:04:40 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDWoB-0004B1-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 18:55:11 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 13 Apr 2004 15:04:46 +0000 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-147-41.cisco.com [171.68.147.41]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3DMsU2P001493; Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:54:30 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040413150854.02915ff0@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 13 Apr 2004 15:54:30 -0700 To: narasimhan g , sajassi@cisco.com, l2vpn@ietf.org From: Ali Sajassi Subject: Re: stp and draft-ietf-ppvpn-vpls-ldp-01.txt In-Reply-To: <20040413203120.36525.qmail@web21410.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040412141140.0290b818@airborne.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Hi Narasim, Actually when I was talking about Ethernet access network, I had a more general topology with intermediate aggregate switches/bridges in mind than just a simple hub-and-spoke between u-PEs (MTU-s) and n-PEs (PE-rs). However, your picture is sufficient to discuss the point below. In other words, if we have intermediate bridges, then they would take the place of MTU-S in the figure below and the actual MTU-s's sit behind the intermediate switches. Now, if you are asking whether we can skip running STP on n-PEs in a general access network topology (but run the STP on all other bridges and u-PEs), then the answer is yes but at a price (and the price may or may not be important depending on SP criteria). But before talking about its cost, let me just mention that there needs to be a full mesh of PWs among all the n-PEs belonging to that access network for relaying service provider BPDUs (e.g., a full mesh of PWs dedicated for SP BPDUs only). Furthermore, when the n-PEs receives SP BPDUs frames, it needs to relay them over this set of full-meshed PWs. Now, lets talk about the cost of not supporting STP on n-PEs. One of the constraint being imposed is that there cannot be any Ethernet links between the n-PEs belonging to a given access network. If there is such a link, then loop can occur among your n-PEs. In other words, if the customer traffic needs to be switched locally between two n-PEs of the same access network, then it has to go through the MPLS/IP network using the PWs (and thus over-loading your PWs for locally switched traffic). If n-PEs run STP, then this constraint can be removed. Also running STP on n-PE can result in a faster switch-over time in case of PW failure but this is secondary and it can be taken care of. -Ali At 01:31 PM 4/13/2004 -0700, narasimhan g wrote: >Hi Ali, > >Thanks for your response. >I have reproduced the figure in 10.2.1 below for easy reference. >I have added a link between MTU-s and PE2-rs so that it has three links. >I have the following points. > >1. Any loops among the PE-rs will be broken because of split horizon. >2. Any loop at the MTU-s will be broken by the MTU-s running STP on > the three PWs/links ( The three PE-rs's would just flood any BPDUs > received from the MTU-s ). > >Isn't this sufficient to break all loops? > >So the PE-rs's need to run STP only if the MTU-s is not running STP. Or >am I missing something obvious? > > > > PE2-rs > ------ > Third PW/link / \ > /------------------------------| -- | > / | / \ | > CE-1 / | \B / | > \ / \ -- / > \ / /------ > \ MTU-s / PE1-rs / | > \------ / ------ / | > / \ / / \ / | > | -- | Primary PW | -- |---/ | > | / \--|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | > | \B / | | \B / | | > \ -- \/ \ -- / ---\ | > ------\ ------ \ | > / \ \ | > / \ \ ------ > / \ / \ > CE-2 \ | -- | > \ Secondary PW | / \ | > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |-\B / | > \ -- / > ------ > PE3-rs > > >thanks, > >narasim > > > > > >------------------------------------------------------ >Ali Sajassi wrote:At 11:14 AM 4/12/2004 -0700, >narasimhan g wrote: >Hello, > >I have a question regarding section 11 second last paragraph ( page 21 >). It states > >" In this model PE-rs may need to run STP protocol ... ". > >My question is if the bridges in the ether access network are running >STP, is there a need for the PE-rs to run STP? My reasoning is that >the PE-rs is just emulating a LAN so it need not run STP. >If there exists several alternative paths through several different PE-rs >for a given VPLS >instance, then the PE-rs's need to participate in access network STP in >order to decide which path >(link or set of PWs) to block and which path to unblock for the VPLS >traffic to get through over >the core network. Otherwise, if they don't participate, a loop can exist >among the PE-rs's. >However, if the access topology is simplified as depicted in 10.2.1, then >it can be done without >STP as described in that section. > >-Ali > > >Would really appreciate any clarification/comments. > >thanks, > >narasim > > > >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th > > > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 13:25:45 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08709 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:25:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDo0l-0001ES-Dt for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:17:20 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3EHHJu1004730 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:17:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDnjA-0005g3-21 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:59:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA06009 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:59:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDnj8-0007C7-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:59:06 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDngn-0006qK-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:56:42 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDnew-0006VE-03 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:54:46 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BDnRO-0002TZ-Aq for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:40:46 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDnBf-00052v-2w; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:24:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDmXb-0006lU-8t for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:43:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA02469 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:43:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDmXa-0002t2-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:43:06 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDmWu-0002q6-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:42:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDmW5-0002fw-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:41:33 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Apr 2004 08:34:45 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (erosen-u10.cisco.com [161.44.70.36]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3EFexcp015224; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:40:59 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404141540.i3EFexcp015224@rtp-core-1.cisco.com> To: Loa Andersson cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:18:02 +0200. <407C590A.7080305@pi.se> Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 11:40:59 -0400 From: Eric Rosen Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I am sure no one will be surprised to hear that I object to the advancement of this document in its current form, as section 7.1 (on the use of PWE3 signaling) is inadequate and out of date. Although the PWE3 LDP-based Control Protocol specification is referenced (though the reference is to a version over a year old), no notice is taken of the fact that the PWE3 LDP-based control protocol supports two FECs. This document appears to mandate the use of one of them (FEC 128), but doesn't even state that explicitly, leaving it as an exercise for the reader to infer this from the diagrams. In fact, the VPLS specification should allow both FECs, FEC 128 and FEC 129, and draft-l2vpn-signaling should also be referenced. (Actually, the latter appears in the references, but is not actually referenced!) In addition, the document's use of FEC 128 is non-standard, as its use of the group id field does not appear to be in accord with the PWE3 control protocol specification. I understand that this is a backwards compatibility issue, but it needs to be called out explicitly.=20 As far as I can tell, there is nothing really LDP-specific in this document except the requirement to use LDP. I don't think there is anything incompatible with the use of L2TP-based PWE3 signaling; this should also be accommodated. =46rom section 7.1: "In a VPLS, we use a VCID (to be substituted with a VP= NID TLV later, to address extending the scope of a VPLS)". I have two comments on this:=20 - I always thought "later" meant "before last call", not "we hope everyone will forget about it" ;-) - It should be noted that this problem is solved via the use of FEC 129.=20 Section 7.1 also repeats the definitions of various VC type fields from PWE3. This should be eliminated, and the appropriate PWE3 documents referenced instead.=20 If I might also comment on a procedural issue, I think that before issuing a last call, the WG chairs should ask the authors to update the references and the boilerplate (intellectual property section and copyright section). =20 Based on my own recent experiences as an editor with documents before the IESG, I think that the Security Considerations section will not be accepted by the IESG. They will ask for a brief discussion of the key distribution method behind the "use MD5 to secure the LDP sessions" and they will for a bit more (quite a bit more probably) than "if you want security encrypt your packets." From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 13:45:48 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA10436 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:45:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoOP-00005d-Nf for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:41:45 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3EHfjEm000336 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:41:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoD4-0004vm-Oi for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:30:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09026 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:30:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoD2-0002EE-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:30:00 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoC5-00029d-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:29:02 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoBB-000277-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:28:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDo1s-0001lA-7N; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:18:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDnlF-0006CD-5f for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:01:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06450 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:01:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDnlD-0007Xu-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:01:15 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDnkO-0007QV-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:00:24 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDniw-00075t-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 12:58:54 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3EGwGBm047326; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3EGwGJ53479; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:58:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404141658.i3EGwGJ53479@merlot.juniper.net> To: Loa Andersson , l2vpn@ietf.org cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <3741.1081961896.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:58:16 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Loa, >From the last L2VPN WG minutes: Yakov - question on VPLS LDP. Must specify at least one default mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations. Giles - manual config? Yakov - spell it out in spec? Vach - OK. Yet the document still does not incorporate this - quoting from the latest version of the document: 6. Discovery Currently, no discovery mechanism has been prescribed for VPLS. There are three potential candidates, [BGP-DISC], [RADIUS-DISC], [LDP-DISC]. Before advancing the document, this needs to be fixed. Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 13:45:54 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA10453 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:45:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoOW-0000Gk-Qc for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:41:52 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3EHfqwB001023 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:41:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoE3-0005Gw-Re for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:31:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09107 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:31:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoE1-0002Kh-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:31:01 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoDI-0002GE-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:30:17 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoCT-0002DM-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:29:25 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDo1x-0001mu-IU; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:18:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDnp3-0006fo-5Z for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:05:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06868 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:05:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDnp1-00006b-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:05:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDnoE-000031-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:04:23 -0400 Received: from [64.47.48.7] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDnnU-0007im-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:03:36 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.5.178] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:03:04 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Vach Kompella" To: , "'Loa Andersson'" Cc: , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , , Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 10:03:03 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <029601c42242$5ab14750$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200404141540.i3EFexcp015224@rtp-core-1.cisco.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 14 Apr 2004 17:03:04.0869 (UTC) FILETIME=[5A23AD50:01C42242] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Eric. I didn't get a chance to put in my changes to use the generalized PWID FEC structure before it got submitted as the final version of the draft. I'll get those in forthwith. -Vach=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Eric Rosen [mailto:erosen@cisco.com]=20 > Sent: Wednesday, April 14, 2004 8:41 AM > To: Loa Andersson > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin;=20 > 'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions >=20 >=20 >=20 > I am sure no one will be surprised to hear that I object to=20 > the advancement of this document in its current form, as=20 > section 7.1 (on the use of PWE3 > signaling) is inadequate and out of date. >=20 > Although the PWE3 LDP-based Control Protocol specification=20 > is referenced (though the reference is to a version over a=20 > year old), no notice is taken of the fact that the PWE3 =20 > LDP-based control protocol supports two FECs. This =20 > document appears to mandate the use of one of them (FEC =20 > 128), but doesn't even state that explicitly, leaving it as=20 > an exercise for the reader to infer this from the diagrams. >=20 > In fact, the VPLS specification should allow both FECs, =20 > FEC 128 and FEC 129, and draft-l2vpn-signaling should also=20 > be referenced. (Actually, the latter appears in the=20 > references, but is not actually referenced!) >=20 > In addition, the document's use of FEC 128 is non-standard,=20 > as its use of the group id field does not appear to be in=20 > accord with the PWE3 control protocol specification. I=20 > understand that this is a backwards compatibility issue, but=20 > it needs to be called out explicitly.=20 >=20 > As far as I can tell, there is nothing really LDP-specific=20 > in this document > except the requirement to use LDP. I don't think=20 > there is anything > incompatible with the use of L2TP-based PWE3 signaling; this=20 > should also be accommodated. >=20 > From section 7.1: "In a VPLS, we use a VCID (to be=20 > substituted with a VPNID TLV later, to address extending the =20 > scope of a VPLS)". I have two comments on this:=20 > - I always thought "later" meant "before last call", not=20 > "we hope everyone > will forget about it" ;-) > - It should be noted that this problem is solved via the use=20 > of FEC 129.=20 >=20 > Section 7.1 also repeats the definitions of various VC=20 > type fields from > PWE3. This should be eliminated, and the appropriate =20 > PWE3 documents > referenced instead.=20 >=20 > If I might also comment on a procedural issue, I think that=20 > before issuing a last call, the WG chairs should ask the=20 > authors to update the references and the boilerplate=20 > (intellectual property section and copyright section). =20 >=20 > Based on my own recent experiences as an editor with =20 > documents before the IESG, I think that the Security=20 > Considerations section will not be accepted > by the IESG. They will ask for a brief discussion of the=20 > key distribution > method behind the "use MD5 to secure the LDP sessions" and =20 > they will for a bit more (quite a bit more probably) than "if=20 > you want security encrypt your packets." >=20 >=20 >=20 From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 14:14:12 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12318 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:14:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDokk-0006VU-I2 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:04:51 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3EI4oOm025007 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:04:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoh8-0004y9-Vp for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:01:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA11383 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoh6-0004MT-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:01:04 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDogH-0004JL-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:00:14 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDofP-0004GM-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:59:19 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoPh-0000gO-Pl; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:43:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoK3-0006qa-ED for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:37:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA09499 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:37:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoK1-0002mf-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:37:13 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoIt-0002jy-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:36:04 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoIe-0002iW-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:35:48 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Apr 2004 10:46:39 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (erosen-u10.cisco.com [161.44.70.36]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3EHZFNP006842; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:35:15 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404141735.i3EHZFNP006842@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> To: Loa Andersson cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp and bgp based vpls solutions In-reply-to: Your message of Tue, 13 Apr 2004 23:18:02 +0200. <407C590A.7080305@pi.se> Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:35:15 -0400 From: Eric Rosen Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 I note that both documents describe the operation of the VPLS data plane, e.g., MAC address learning, flooding, etc. It's never been quite clear to me whether the data plane is supposed to operate the same in both specs, or whether there are some intentional differences. If there is no disagreement about the operation of the data plane, then I don't understand why it is described in two different documents. (Generally a WG doesn't produce two different documents describing something on which there IS consensus!) If there are intentional differences, then these will need to be clearly described in Applicability Statements, and one might think that the applicability statements should be last called at the same time as the base specs. From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 14:45:40 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA14037 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:45:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDpAi-00056m-Rd for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:31:41 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3EIVeQJ019628 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:31:40 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDowa-0001LD-Cs for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:17:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA12411 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:17:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDowX-0005Y5-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:17:02 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDovf-0005Vo-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:16:07 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDous-0005U5-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:15:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDokw-0006im-8x; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 14:05:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDoZR-0002YC-9f for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:53:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA11023 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:53:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoZP-0003vT-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:53:07 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoYY-0003se-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:52:15 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDoXl-0003ll-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:51:25 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Apr 2004 11:02:15 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (erosen-u10.cisco.com [161.44.70.36]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3EHoqNP012631; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:50:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404141750.i3EHoqNP012631@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> To: Yakov Rekhter cc: Loa Andersson , l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-reply-to: Your message of Wed, 14 Apr 2004 09:58:16 -0700. <200404141658.i3EGwGJ53479@merlot.juniper.net> Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:50:51 -0400 From: Eric Rosen Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 > Yakov - question on VPLS LDP. Must specify at least one default > mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations. Insofar as the document covers only signaling and data plane, it seems to me that the only question is whether the signaling and data plane specifi- cations are adequate for ensuring interoperability. After all, we wouldn't reject, e.g., the TCP spec, on the grounds that it doesn't tell us how to figure out who we need to connect to. Nor would we reject, say, the BGP spec on the grounds that it doesn't tell us how to figure out who we should be peering with. > Giles - manual config? It's probably a good idea in any event to require the capability for manually configuring the remote endpoints. If saying that helps us to eliminate a bit of sophistry, so much the better. From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 17:48:05 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA29763 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:48:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDs6Z-0004vA-9O for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:39:35 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3ELdZlk018901 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:39:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDrxu-0001GX-Bo for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:30:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA28705 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:30:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDrxs-0006Pv-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:30:36 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDrx0-0006OA-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:29:42 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDrwU-0006Lo-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:29:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDrjm-000466-Ha; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 17:16:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDrP8-0003sv-4K for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:54:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25395 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:54:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDrP6-0002rZ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:54:40 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDrO7-0002lJ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:53:40 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDrNH-0002au-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:52:47 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3EKqHBm050957; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:52:17 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3EKqGJ89514; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:52:16 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404142052.i3EKqGJ89514@merlot.juniper.net> To: erosen@cisco.com cc: Loa Andersson , l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:50:51 EDT." <200404141750.i3EHoqNP012631@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <44689.1081975936.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 13:52:16 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Eric, > > Yakov - question on VPLS LDP. Must specify at least one default > > mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations. > > Insofar as the document covers only signaling and data plane, it seems to me > that the only question is whether the signaling and data plane specifi- > cations are adequate for ensuring interoperability. Just to remind you VPLS, as a *system*, includes not just signaling and data plane, but discovery as well. So, an interoperable VPLS solution must include, among other things, interoperable discovery as well. > > Giles - manual config? > > It's probably a good idea in any event to require the capability for > manually configuring the remote endpoints. If saying that helps us to > eliminate a bit of sophistry, so much the better. That is all I asked for. Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 18:40:46 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03554 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDsz9-0001sE-2L for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:35:59 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3EMZx9S007197 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:35:59 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDsvx-00012N-Rt for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:32:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03269 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:32:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDsvu-0002f3-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:32:39 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDsv0-0002d9-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:31:42 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDsue-0002b2-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:31:20 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDspW-0007wS-Pn; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:26:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDslK-0006eT-Vp for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:21:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02760 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:21:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDslI-00021d-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:21:40 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDskM-0001yu-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:20:42 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-2-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.71] helo=sj-iport-2.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDsjh-0001tw-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:20:01 -0400 Received: from sj-core-2.cisco.com (171.71.177.254) by sj-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Apr 2004 14:28:40 +0000 Received: from flask.cisco.com (IDENT:mirapoint@flask.cisco.com [161.44.122.62]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3EMJNiM008462; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 15:19:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [161.44.71.173] ([161.44.71.173]) by flask.cisco.com (Mirapoint Messaging Server MOS 3.3.6-GR) with ESMTP id AHP39521; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 18:19:22 -0400 (EDT) Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions From: "Thomas D. Nadeau" Reply-To: tnadeau@cisco.com To: Yakov Rekhter Cc: erosen@cisco.com, Loa Andersson , l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com In-Reply-To: <200404142052.i3EKqGJ89514@merlot.juniper.net> References: <200404142052.i3EKqGJ89514@merlot.juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain Organization: Cisco Systems, Inc. Message-Id: <1081981159.5946.81.camel@localhost.localdomain> Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Ximian Evolution 1.2.2 (1.2.2-4) Date: 14 Apr 2004 18:19:19 -0400 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > Eric, > > > > Yakov - question on VPLS LDP. Must specify at least one default > > > mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations. > > > > Insofar as the document covers only signaling and data plane, it seems to me > > that the only question is whether the signaling and data plane specifi- > > cations are adequate for ensuring interoperability. > > Just to remind you VPLS, as a *system*, includes not just signaling > and data plane, but discovery as well. So, an interoperable VPLS > solution must include, among other things, interoperable discovery as > well. Yakov, Although I agree that it seems *preferable* to include discovery in a solution (of the automatic variety), it does seem reasonable for a VPLS system to not include discovery (i.e.: manual config) too. I do not really consider manual configuration to be in the category of discovery, since technically you aren't discovering anything by entering the information yourself. *) Maybe we are splitting hairs, but saying something like "an complete solution must include among other things, discovery OR manual configuration..." seems more precise. --Tom > > > > Giles - manual config? > > > > It's probably a good idea in any event to require the capability for > > manually configuring the remote endpoints. If saying that helps us to > > eliminate a bit of sophistry, so much the better. > > That is all I asked for. > > Yakov. > From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 14 20:11:39 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06973 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDuRZ-0000mC-HL for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:09:26 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3F09Pms002979 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:09:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDuQs-0000La-2v for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:08:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06854 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:08:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDuQq-0007dC-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:08:40 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDuPt-0007av-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:07:42 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDuP9-0007Z5-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:06:55 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDuMM-0007Ss-Oq; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:04:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BDuJ8-0006hn-3O for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:00:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA06456 for ; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:00:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDuJ6-00073l-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 20:00:40 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BDuI9-0006y0-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:59:41 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net ([207.17.137.57]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BDuHD-0006qZ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 19:58:43 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i3ENvtl81573; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:57:55 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3ENvoJ11597; Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:57:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404142357.i3ENvoJ11597@merlot.juniper.net> To: tnadeau@cisco.com cc: erosen@cisco.com, Loa Andersson , l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-Reply-To: Your message of "14 Apr 2004 18:19:19 EDT." <1081981159.5946.81.camel@localhost.localdomain> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <78405.1081987070.1@juniper.net> Date: Wed, 14 Apr 2004 16:57:50 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Tom, > > Eric, > > > > > > Yakov - question on VPLS LDP. Must specify at least one default > > > > mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations. > > > > > > Insofar as the document covers only signaling and data plane, it seems to me > > > that the only question is whether the signaling and data plane speci fi- > > > cations are adequate for ensuring interoperability. > > > > Just to remind you VPLS, as a *system*, includes not just signaling > > and data plane, but discovery as well. So, an interoperable VPLS > > solution must include, among other things, interoperable discovery as > > well. > > Yakov, > > Although I agree that it seems *preferable* to > include discovery in a solution (of the automatic > variety), it does seem reasonable for a VPLS system to > not include discovery (i.e.: manual config) too. I do > not really consider manual configuration to be in the > category of discovery, since technically you aren't > discovering anything by entering the information > yourself. *) Maybe we are splitting hairs, but saying > something like "an complete solution must include > among other things, discovery OR manual configuration..." > seems more precise. We are splitting hairs... Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 12:40:50 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03568 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:40:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BE9iq-00053K-VT for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:28:18 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FGSGt1019400 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:28:16 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BE9TL-00074I-9g for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:12:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02286 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:12:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BE9TJ-0002Ha-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:12:13 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BE9SR-0002DK-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:11:20 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BE9Rr-00029X-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:10:43 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BE9GX-0003Ns-9r; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:59:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BE965-0000hu-MC for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:48:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA01406 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:48:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BE964-0000Cx-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:48:12 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BE957-00007o-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:47:14 -0400 Received: from av7-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net ([81.228.11.114]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BE94D-0007li-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 11:46:17 -0400 Received: by av7-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix, from userid 502) id 753B237EB7; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:45:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net [81.228.11.164]) by av7-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6287437E42; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:45:44 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pi.se (h178n2fls307o1033.telia.com [81.226.61.178]) by smtp3-2-sn1.fre.skanova.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 358F937E4C; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:45:44 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <407EAE1B.6010705@pi.se> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:45:31 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: l2vpn@ietf.org Cc: Yakov Rekhter , tnadeau@cisco.com, erosen@cisco.com, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions References: <200404142357.i3ENvoJ11597@merlot.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <200404142357.i3ENvoJ11597@merlot.juniper.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit All, I guess what Yakov is saying is that to be a "complete vpls solution" some pieces needto be there - including "discovery". In the discovery design teamm we did include manual configuration among the technologies that could be used for discover vpls (actually vpn membership). As for a particular document, that could be either "complete" or addressing certain aspects of a vpls system. In Seoul Yakov pointed out that the discovery were missing in the ldp-vpls draft, and the editors were saying that they were going to add the manual config part. In the this is still missing, and the editors has recognized this as an oversight, and agreed to do a quick respin. That will possibly address som other points as well. We will issue a new wg last call on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt as soon as we have. The working last call on the ldp-vpls is therefore on a short hold. In my opinion this does not need to stop the review work, you'll just have to check if the comments you have hs been addressed when the -03 version is released. /Loa Yakov Rekhter wrote: > Tom, > > >>>Eric, >>> >>> >>>>>Yakov - question on VPLS LDP. Must specify at least one default >>>>>mode for auto-discovery to have interoperable implementations. >>>> >>>>Insofar as the document covers only signaling and data plane, it seems to > > me > >>>>that the only question is whether the signaling and data plane speci > > fi- > >>>>cations are adequate for ensuring interoperability. >>> >>>Just to remind you VPLS, as a *system*, includes not just signaling >>>and data plane, but discovery as well. So, an interoperable VPLS >>>solution must include, among other things, interoperable discovery as >>>well. >> >> Yakov, >> >> Although I agree that it seems *preferable* to >>include discovery in a solution (of the automatic >>variety), it does seem reasonable for a VPLS system to >>not include discovery (i.e.: manual config) too. I do >>not really consider manual configuration to be in the >>category of discovery, since technically you aren't >>discovering anything by entering the information >>yourself. *) Maybe we are splitting hairs, but saying >>something like "an complete solution must include >>among other things, discovery OR manual configuration..." >>seems more precise. > > > We are splitting hairs... > > Yakov. > > > -- Loa Andersson mobile +46 739 81 21 64 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 13:21:33 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05922 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:21:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAWR-0002rY-4M for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:19:32 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FHJVqB010999 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:19:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAMW-0000pq-45 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:09:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05363 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:09:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAMU-0000kH-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:09:14 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEALX-0000cc-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:08:15 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAKX-0000Vu-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:07:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAIQ-0007h8-1Y; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:05:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAD1-0006AU-GQ for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:59:28 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA04554 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:59:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEACz-0007GZ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:59:25 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEABu-00078T-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:58:19 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEABI-0006yw-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 12:57:40 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3FGv5Bm054181; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3FGv5J09243; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:57:05 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404151657.i3FGv5J09243@merlot.juniper.net> To: l2vpn@ietf.org cc: Loa Andersson , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <18713.1082048225.1@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 09:57:05 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Folks, >From 10.2.2 (Failure detection and recovery) of the draft: The MTU-s device controls the usage of the pseudowires to the PE-rs nodes. Since LDP signaling is used to negotiate the pseudowire labels, the hello messages used for the LDP session can be used to detect failure of the primary pseudowire. The document needs to clarify whether the LDP session SHOULD be used to detect failure of the primary pseudowire, or whether the LDP session MAY be used to detect failure of the primary pseudowire. And if the latter, then the document should mention other alternatives. The document also should note that using LDP session for the purpose of detecting failure of the primary pseudowire can not detect failure in the data/forwarding plane of the pseudowire, and that such failures may result in persistent service disruption. Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 13:39:25 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08035 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:39:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAhm-0005QE-MO for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:31:16 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FHVELB020838 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:31:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAXZ-0003BG-9l for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:20:41 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05868 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:20:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAXX-0001pU-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:20:39 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAWa-0001iD-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:19:40 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAVz-0001bS-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:19:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAKN-0008SB-7K; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:07:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAGk-0007Lw-Bl for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:03:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05008 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:03:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAGi-00002o-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:03:16 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAFi-0007i7-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:02:15 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAEi-0007TP-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:01:12 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3FH0dBm054196; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:00:39 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3FH0cJ09805; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:00:38 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404151700.i3FH0cJ09805@merlot.juniper.net> To: l2vpn@ietf.org cc: Loa Andersson , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <19362.1082048438.1@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 10:00:38 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Folks, Consider the following example: PE2-rs ------ / \ | -- | | / \ |---CE-3 CE-1 | \B / | \ \ -- / \ /------ \ MTU-s PE1-rs / | \------ ------ / | / \ / \ / | | -- | Primary PW | -- |---/ | | / \--|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | | \B / | | \B / | | \ -- \/ \ -- / ---\ | ------\ ------ \ | / \ \ | / \ \ ------ / \ / \ CE-2 \ | -- | \ Secondary PW | / \ | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |-\B / | \ -- / ------ PE3-rs Assume that CE-3 sends a unicast packet to PE2-rs, but the destination MAC address in the packet is unknown to PE2-rs. Would this packet go to both PE3-rs and PE1-rs ? If yes, would PE1-rs send this packet over the primary PW, and would PE3-rs send this packet over the secondary PW ? Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 14:06:52 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA10092 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:06:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEBBc-00056V-5M for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:02:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FI24YF019619 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:02:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEB28-0002DI-08 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA08763 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEB25-0004pE-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:52:13 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEB19-0004iT-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:51:16 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEB0A-0004d0-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:50:14 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAu8-0000Dt-Rk; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:44:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEAnd-0007Aa-HY for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:37:17 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA07899 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:37:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAnb-0003Lr-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:37:15 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAma-0003Gb-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:36:13 -0400 Received: from [80.74.100.67] (helo=antivir2) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEAlf-00038O-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 13:35:15 -0400 Received: from 192.168.254.14 by antivir2 (InterScan E-Mail VirusWall NT); Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:30:55 +0200 Received: by TLV1 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:31:42 +0200 Message-ID: From: Sasha Vainshtein To: "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , "'marc@riverstonenet.com'" Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, Alik Shimelmits , Elena Vinkler , Sharon Galtzur Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:31:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-8" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Vach, Marc and all, I have found that the draft in question proposes using the PWE3 LDP-based control protocol for distribution of Q-in-Q tags between PE-rs and MTU-s (Section 10.1.1.1, the last para). AFAIK, the PWE3 Control Protocol has been intended for distribution of labels from the platform-wide label space. I am not sure that it can be used "as is" for distribution of anything else and would really appreciate a clarification from the authors. One of the questions that, IMO, should be answered: How can I limit the labels distributed to MTU-s to 12 bits (so that they can somehow fit the Q-in-Q tags) without imposing the same limitation on labels distributed to other PE-rs? And if this is impossible, how does this fact affect the scalability of such a solution? Other questions involve possible interaction between LDP and relevant IEEE protocols for VLAN registration etc. With best regards, Sasha Vainshtein email: sasha@axerra.com tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) +972-8-9254948 (res.) +972-58-674833 (cell.) From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 18:59:11 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA07633 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:59:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFUp-0000tD-Q7 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:38:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FMcBJX003414 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:38:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFQW-0007V0-Mx for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:33:50 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA05673 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:33:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFQT-0002Zx-EQ for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:33:41 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFPb-0002UC-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:32:48 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFOD-0002IS-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:31:21 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFIa-000543-BV; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:25:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFEf-000388-04 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:21:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA02358 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:21:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFEc-0000lG-3B for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:21:26 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEF2b-0006ys-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:09:03 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEEbN-00066F-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:40:53 -0400 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-147-94.cisco.com [171.68.147.94]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3FLeA7u012737; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:40:11 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040415143021.02957be0@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:40:10 -0700 To: Yakov Rekhter , l2vpn@ietf.org From: Ali Sajassi Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Cc: Loa Andersson , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com In-Reply-To: <200404151657.i3FGv5J09243@merlot.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 At 09:57 AM 4/15/2004 -0700, Yakov Rekhter wrote: >Folks, > > From 10.2.2 (Failure detection and recovery) of the draft: > > The MTU-s device controls the usage of the pseudowires to the PE-rs > nodes. Since LDP signaling is used to negotiate the pseudowire > labels, the hello messages used for the LDP session can be used to > detect failure of the primary pseudowire. > >The document needs to clarify whether the LDP session SHOULD be >used to detect failure of the primary pseudowire, or whether the >LDP session MAY be used to detect failure of the primary pseudowire. >And if the latter, then the document should mention other alternatives. > >The document also should note that using LDP session for the purpose >of detecting failure of the primary pseudowire can not detect >failure in the data/forwarding plane of the pseudowire, and that >such failures may result in persistent service disruption. If PE-rs is the next hub from MTU-s, then data and control path coincide and hello messages should be sufficient (which might have been the original intend). But if they are not, then (VCCV or LSP) BFD or (VCCV or LSP) ping can be used to check the health of PWs. Also, if fast detection is needed, it may not be appropriate to try to tweak the LDP session timers. So, we may want to just use VCCV/LSP based OAM tools in lieu of LDP hello. -Ali >Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 19:02:51 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA07858 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:02:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFjk-0004PK-PJ for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:53:36 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FMraVY016938 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:53:36 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFUK-0000X9-29 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:37:40 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA05902 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:37:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFUH-0002n4-55 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:37:37 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFTR-0002lA-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:36:46 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFSl-0002iq-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:36:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFK5-0005pj-Ni; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:27:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFIG-0004h2-VB for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:25:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA03778 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:25:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFID-0001Nw-VK for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:25:10 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEF8w-0007iL-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:15:36 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEEez-0006Fa-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 17:44:37 -0400 Received: from sj-core-4.cisco.com (171.68.223.138) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Apr 2004 14:44:11 -0700 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-147-94.cisco.com [171.68.147.94]) by sj-core-4.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3FLi4hF008846; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:44:04 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040415144021.029a3c88@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 14:44:03 -0700 To: Yakov Rekhter , l2vpn@ietf.org From: Ali Sajassi Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Cc: Loa Andersson , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com In-Reply-To: <200404151700.i3FH0cJ09805@merlot.juniper.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 At 10:00 AM 4/15/2004 -0700, Yakov Rekhter wrote: >Folks, > >Consider the following example: > PE2-rs > ------ > / \ > | -- | > | / \ |---CE-3 > CE-1 | \B / | > \ \ -- / > \ /------ > \ MTU-s PE1-rs / | > \------ ------ / | > / \ / \ / | > | -- | Primary PW | -- |---/ | > | / \--|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | > | \B / | | \B / | | > \ -- \/ \ -- / ---\ | > ------\ ------ \ | > / \ \ | > / \ \ ------ > / \ / \ > CE-2 \ | -- | > \ Secondary PW | / \ | > - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - |-\B / | > \ -- / > ------ > PE3-rs > >Assume that CE-3 sends a unicast packet to PE2-rs, but the >destination MAC address in the packet is unknown to PE2-rs. > >Would this packet go to both PE3-rs and PE1-rs ? yes >If yes, would PE1-rs send this packet over the primary PW, and would PE3-rs >send this packet over the secondary PW ? yes and the blocking is done by the MTU-s. This is analogous to STP operation where if the blocking is done by the MTU-S, both PE1-rs and PE3-rs would send data toward MTU-s. -Ali >Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 19:08:39 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA08293 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:08:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFq0-00065r-6L for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:00:04 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FN04Ps023418 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:00:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFdx-0002Zv-ST for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:47:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA06729 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:47:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFdu-0003QL-Pn for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:47:34 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFd2-0003PF-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:46:41 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFcO-0003Ns-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:46:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFTh-000053-5G; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:37:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFKX-00062H-MA for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:27:33 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA04371 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:27:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFKU-0001jV-IJ for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:27:30 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFC8-0000Uq-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:18:53 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-1-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.70] helo=sj-iport-1.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEEui-0006Qr-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:00:53 -0400 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-147-94.cisco.com [171.68.147.94]) by sj-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3FM0F0b017069; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:00:15 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040415145406.028ee888@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:00:14 -0700 To: Sasha Vainshtein , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , "'marc@riverstonenet.com'" From: Ali Sajassi Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, Alik Shimelmits , Elena Vinkler , Sharon Galtzur In-Reply-To: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 At 08:31 PM 4/15/2004 +0200, Sasha Vainshtein wrote: >Vach, Marc and all, > >I have found that the draft in question proposes using the PWE3 >LDP-based control protocol for distribution of Q-in-Q tags >between PE-rs and MTU-s (Section 10.1.1.1, the last para). > >AFAIK, the PWE3 Control Protocol has been intended for >distribution of labels from the platform-wide label space. >I am not sure that it can be used "as is" for distribution >of anything else and would really appreciate a clarification >from the authors. Given that Q-in-Q has evolved into 802.1ad with its own set of protocols and the standard .1ad should be used for provider bridges (Ethernet access network), then this paragraph can be removed. -Ali >One of the questions that, IMO, should be answered: > >How can I limit the labels distributed to MTU-s to 12 bits >(so that they can somehow fit the Q-in-Q tags) without imposing >the same limitation on labels distributed to other PE-rs? And if >this is impossible, how does this fact affect the scalability >of such a solution? > >Other questions involve possible interaction between LDP and >relevant IEEE protocols for VLAN registration etc. > >With best regards, > Sasha Vainshtein >email: sasha@axerra.com >tel: +972-3-7659993 (office) > +972-8-9254948 (res.) > +972-58-674833 (cell.) > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 19:31:23 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09875 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEGIV-0005Qm-3E for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:29:31 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FNTVwt020869 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:29:31 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEG79-0002k2-9W for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:17:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA08996 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:17:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEG77-0005bF-Sk for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:17:45 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEG6H-0005Xp-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:16:54 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEG5a-0005UH-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:16:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEG0a-0000j6-I8; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:11:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFqc-0006Hx-Fk for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:00:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA07718 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:00:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFqZ-0004LH-7c for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:00:39 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFpY-0004HF-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:59:37 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-3-in.cisco.com ([171.71.176.72] helo=sj-iport-3.cisco.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFoj-0004Cs-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 18:58:45 -0400 Received: from sj-core-5.cisco.com (171.71.177.238) by sj-iport-3.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Apr 2004 15:08:52 +0000 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-147-94.cisco.com [171.68.147.94]) by sj-core-5.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3FMwC7u019792; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040415150236.029cf3b0@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 15:58:12 -0700 To: erosen@cisco.com, Loa Andersson From: Ali Sajassi Subject: Re: wg last call on bgp based vpls solution Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com In-Reply-To: <200404141735.i3EHZFNP006842@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Section 4. (Data Plane) of this draft overlaps with data-plane description of draft vpls ldp very much but some of the info of this section is ambiguous and maybe incorrect. So I would suggest to either: a) remove this section and instead make a reference to data-plane sections of vpld ldp OR b) remove data-plane descriptions from both draft and make a stand alone draft where it describes both data plane operation and the related issues. The data-plane operation for both of these draft should be identical and if not, then I would like to know why ? Section 4.1 says: "Ethernet frames received from CE devices are encapsulated for transmission over the packet switched network connecting the PEs. The encapsulation is as in [10], with one change: a PE that sets the P bit in the Control Flags strips the outermost VLAN from an Ethernet frame received from a CE before encapsulating it, and pushes a VLAN onto a decapsulated frame before sending it to a CE." The raw and tagged modes as described in [10] should be sufficient. If not and any changes to it needs to be done, then I'd like to know the rational behind it. Section 4.2.1, 3d para says: "In qualified learning, the learning decisions at the VE are based on the customer ethernet packet's MAC address and VLAN tag, if one exists. If no VLAN tag exists, the default VLAN is assumed. Effectively, within one VPLS, there are multiple logical FIBs, one for each customer VLAN tag identified in a customer packet. In unqualified learning, learning is based on a customer ethernet packet's MAC address only. In other words, at any VE, there is only one FIB per VPLS." A few clarifications: 1) Qualified/unqualified learning is not based on customer VLAN but it is based on whether those VLANs are service-delimiting or not. If service delimiting, each VLAN tag points to separate filtering database and if not they point to the same filtering database. 2) If there are multiple service instances (and multiple filtering databases) share the same VPLS for qualified mode, then how do you limit the broadcast domain for each service ? Also in section 4.2.2 where it talks about PE that are incapable of flooding, and either L2PE or upstream PEs need to do the flooding/replication for them, it is not clear whether this flooding is done over the same PWs between the PEs or different PWs. This should be clarified. Also last but not least, we should get the terminology for both drafts in synch with l2vpn framework - e.g., MTU-s and L2PE should be changed to u-PE and so on .... -Ali From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 19:32:41 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10030 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:32:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEGIr-0005hH-3s for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:29:53 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FNTr11021895 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:29:53 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEGDw-00046g-VC for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:24:49 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA09663 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:24:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEGDv-0006EG-G1 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:24:47 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEGCz-0006Be-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:23:49 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEGCc-00068j-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:23:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEG4T-0001te-1r; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:15:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEFwT-0007eJ-3b for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:06:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA08072 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:06:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEFwP-0004lL-NF for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:06:41 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFvO-0004fV-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:05:39 -0400 Received: from web21412.mail.yahoo.com ([66.163.170.211]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEFuS-0004cQ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:04:40 -0400 Message-ID: <20040415230431.34878.qmail@web21412.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [64.221.212.137] by web21412.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:04:31 PDT Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:04:31 -0700 (PDT) From: narasimhan g Subject: Re: stp and draft-ietf-ppvpn-vpls-ldp-01.txt To: sajassi@cisco.com, l2vpn@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <4.3.2.7.2.20040413150854.02915ff0@airborne.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=2.2 required=5.0 tests=AWL,FROM_HAS_ULINE_NUMS autolearn=no version=2.60 Hi Ali, > Now, lets talk about the cost of not supporting STP on n-PEs. One of the > constraint being imposed is that there cannot be any Ethernet links between > the n-PEs belonging to a given access network. If there is such a link, > then loop can occur among your n-PEs. In other words, if the customer > traffic needs to be switched locally between two n-PEs of the same access > network, then it has to go through the MPLS/IP network using the PWs (and > thus over-loading your PWs for locally switched traffic). If n-PEs run STP, > then this constraint can be removed. Also running STP on n-PE can result in > a faster switch-over time in case of PW failure but this is secondary and > it can be taken care of. With respect to your response, I would like to know how split horizon and STP interoperate. I have in the diagram below two PEs, PE1 and PE2, in the same ether access network. They also have a direct ethernet (Eth2) link between them. Also PE1, PE2 and PE3 have the full-mesh of pseudowires between them. STP is running on ports Eth1, Eth2 and Eth3 and in the access network. But STP is not aware of the pseudowire PW1. ------------------- / \ (Eth1) / ----------PE1 / / || \ . . || \ . . || \ ( PW2 ) . . || \ . . || \ . Arbitrary ether . (Eth2)||(PW1) PE3 . access network . || / . running STP . || / . . || / ( PW3 ) . . || / . . || / . \ (Eth3) || / . ----------PE2 \ / \ / --------------------- Traffic flowing from PE3 to PE1 over PW2 will be sent on Eth1 into the access network. The access network could potentially send this traffic back on Eth3 link towards PE2. ( For example if Eth2 is blocked by STP ). Therefore PE2 would receive the same traffic from PE3 ( over Pw3 ) and also from the access network via Eth3. How do we avoid this? thanks, narasim __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 15 20:04:08 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA11293 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 20:04:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEGhw-0003Bv-2u for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:55:48 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3FNtmPB012263 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:55:48 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEGgs-0002iQ-4H for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:54:42 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA11001 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:54:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEGgq-0007fn-7L for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:54:40 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEGfu-0007e4-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:53:43 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEGfh-0007c8-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:53:29 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEGUb-0000Ip-9F; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:42:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEGLd-0006Xd-Og for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:32:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA10056 for ; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:32:44 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEGLc-0006bJ-2w for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:32:44 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEGKm-0006Z1-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:31:53 -0400 Received: from sj-iport-5.cisco.com ([171.68.10.87]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEGKM-0006VB-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 19:31:26 -0400 Received: from sj-core-3.cisco.com (171.68.223.137) by sj-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 15 Apr 2004 16:31:00 -0700 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com (dhcp-171-68-147-94.cisco.com [171.68.147.94]) by sj-core-3.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3FNUrqj019735; Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040415161509.01ce3970@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Thu, 15 Apr 2004 16:30:52 -0700 To: narasimhan g , sajassi@cisco.com, l2vpn@ietf.org From: Ali Sajassi Subject: Re: stp and draft-ietf-ppvpn-vpls-ldp-01.txt In-Reply-To: <20040415230431.34878.qmail@web21412.mail.yahoo.com> References: <4.3.2.7.2.20040413150854.02915ff0@airborne.cisco.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Hi narasim, At 04:04 PM 4/15/2004 -0700, narasimhan g wrote: >Hi Ali, > > > Now, lets talk about the cost of not supporting STP on n-PEs. One of the > > constraint being imposed is that there cannot be any Ethernet links > between > > the n-PEs belonging to a given access network. If there is such a link, > > then loop can occur among your n-PEs. In other words, if the customer > > traffic needs to be switched locally between two n-PEs of the same access > > network, then it has to go through the MPLS/IP network using the PWs (and > > thus over-loading your PWs for locally switched traffic). If n-PEs run > STP, > > then this constraint can be removed. Also running STP on n-PE can > result in > > a faster switch-over time in case of PW failure but this is secondary and > > it can be taken care of. > >With respect to your response, I would like to know how split horizon and >STP interoperate. > >I have in the diagram below two PEs, PE1 and PE2, in the same ether access >network. They also >have a direct ethernet (Eth2) link between them. Also PE1, PE2 and PE3 >have the full-mesh >of pseudowires between them. STP is running on ports Eth1, Eth2 and Eth3 >and in the access >network. But STP is not aware of the pseudowire PW1. > > ------------------- > / \ (Eth1) > / ----------PE1 > / / || \ > . . || \ > . . || \ ( PW2 ) > . . || \ > . . || \ > . Arbitrary ether . (Eth2)||(PW1) PE3 > . access network . || / > . running STP . || / > . . || / ( PW3 ) > . . || / > . . || / > . \ (Eth3) || / > . ----------PE2 > \ / > \ / > --------------------- > > >Traffic flowing from PE3 to PE1 over PW2 will be sent on Eth1 into the >access network. >The access network could potentially send this traffic back on Eth3 link >towards PE2. >( For example if Eth2 is blocked by STP ). Therefore PE2 would receive the >same traffic >from PE3 ( over Pw3 ) and also from the access network via Eth3. How do >we avoid this? When you run STP on PE1 and PE2, it needs to cover all the port (both logical and physical) or else loop can occur. So in your example, lets assume that we have 10 PEs (PE1 through PE10) and PE1, and PE2 belong to the same access network (e.g., same Ethernet island) as depicted above. In this case, a separate PW need to exist to carry provider's BPDUs for that island (and it is only for provider BPDUs and nothing more). In this scenarios all the core-facing PWs of the PE1 can be model as one logical port and all the PWs of the PE2 as another logical port. Furthermore, the SP BPDU PW would be analogous to BPDU stream of a Ethernet port and each customer VPLS (each set of PWs) would be analogous to customer VLAN over that logical Ethernet port. Then the STP can protect the PWs over its logical port. It should be noted that the STP is only run among the PEs of the same island (intra island) and not between islands - this is the key to scalability. If what I am saying is not very clear (which can very well be the case), then i would refer you to the materials presented in 802.1 group on this subject over last couple of years. -Ali >thanks, > >narasim > > > > >__________________________________ >Do you Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Tax Center - File online by April 15th >http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 16 11:21:58 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA15694 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:21:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEV0g-0004B1-Sk for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:12:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3GFC6mw016047 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:12:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEUwr-0003Dj-Nc for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:08:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA14766 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:08:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEUwp-0003hU-5D for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:08:07 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEUvs-0003eD-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:07:08 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEUut-0003aZ-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:06:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEUm9-0006cS-Rd; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:57:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEUfV-0004H4-Kp for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:50:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA13672 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:50:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEUfT-0002W7-0x for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:50:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEUeU-0002S0-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:49:11 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net ([207.17.137.57]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEUdb-0002No-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 10:48:15 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i3GElOl89333; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3GElJJ30773; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:19 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404161447.i3GElJJ30773@merlot.juniper.net> To: l2vpn@ietf.org cc: Loa Andersson , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <12376.1082126839.1@juniper.net> Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 07:47:19 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Folks, >From the spec (Section 10.3): When more than two domains need to be connected, a full mesh of inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 What are the inter-domain spokes that would be required in this example ? Yakov. From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 16 15:33:07 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA00699 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:33:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEZ1X-00031m-Dm for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:29:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3GJTFtq011639 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:29:15 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEYsy-0000gP-9n for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:20:24 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA29924 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:20:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEYsx-0007BA-2Q for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:20:23 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEYs4-00077K-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:19:29 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEYrQ-00073D-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:18:48 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEYjt-0004ZG-5W; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 15:11:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BEYVg-0001qW-P5 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:56:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA27481 for ; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:56:17 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BEYVd-0005I7-UF for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:56:18 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BEYUl-0005Df-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:55:23 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=kummer.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BEYTv-00055l-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 14:54:31 -0400 Received: from kummer.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kummer.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3GIrxPg044718; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:53:59 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kireeti@juniper.net) Received: from localhost (kireeti@localhost) by kummer.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id i3GIrjK3044715; Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:53:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kummer.juniper.net: kireeti owned process doing -bs Date: Fri, 16 Apr 2004 11:53:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kireeti Kompella To: Eric Rosen cc: Loa Andersson , l2vpn@ietf.org, Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin , "'vach.kompella@alcatel.com'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp and bgp based vpls solutions In-Reply-To: <200404141735.i3EHZFNP006842@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> Message-ID: <20040416114506.K44577@kummer.juniper.net> References: <200404141735.i3EHZFNP006842@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 On Wed, 14 Apr 2004, Eric Rosen wrote: > I note that both documents describe the operation of the VPLS data plane, > e.g., MAC address learning, flooding, etc. It's never been quite clear to > me whether the data plane is supposed to operate the same in both specs, or > whether there are some intentional differences. Good point. There are no intentional differences; some minor differences arise from the fact that the ldp draft also specifies the operation of spokes in H-VPLS. > If there is no disagreement > about the operation of the data plane, then I don't understand why it is > described in two different documents. I am fine with pulling out the data plane operation into an independent document; I had suggested that a long time back, but I guess there were more important things going on. As people comment on the docs, it would help if they include whether or not they think that splitting out the data plane part is a good idea. Kireeti. ------- From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 19 19:21:34 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA20490 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:21:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFi21-0005Ce-Ae for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:18:30 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3JNITHG019964 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:18:29 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFhob-0000aC-El for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:04:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA19468 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:04:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFhoY-0007eX-6v for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:04:34 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFhnT-0007KS-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:03:28 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFhmV-00072B-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 19:02:27 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFhca-00059Z-M7; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:52:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFhMX-00076w-57 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:35:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA17137 for ; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:35:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFhMU-0007JZ-0a for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:35:34 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFhLa-00074L-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:34:38 -0400 Received: from [62.168.27.179] (helo=prague) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFhKt-0006pR-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 19 Apr 2004 18:33:55 -0400 Received: from MARCLL2K ([127.0.0.1]) by prague with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:33:16 +0200 Message-ID: <070301c4265e$5f8cc9a0$6501a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> From: "Marc Lasserre" To: , "Yakov Rekhter" Cc: "Loa Andersson" , "Thomas Narten" , "Alex Zinin" , , References: <200404161447.i3GElJJ30773@merlot.juniper.net> Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:33:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 19 Apr 2004 22:33:16.0796 (UTC) FILETIME=[4F0893C0:01C4265E] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yakov, The VPLS-LDP draft specifies the use of a single active full mesh at a time. For instance, in your example, only the northern path would be active, with a corresponding full mesh of all PE1s or PE1a-PE2b-PE2c-PE1d. A future draft could specify how redundant inter-domain connectivity is achieved (election of border PE, and protocol between PEs within one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). Marc PS: I am travelling and have limited access to email for the next 8 days. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakov Rekhter" To: Cc: "Loa Andersson" ; "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin" ; ; Sent: April 16, 2004 16:47 Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > Folks, > > From the spec (Section 10.3): > > When more than two domains need to be connected, a full mesh of > inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. > > Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): > > > Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D > > A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 > > A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 > > What are the inter-domain spokes that would be required in this example ? > > Yakov. > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 06:12:59 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06299 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:12:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFs9o-00062C-1S for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:07:12 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KA7C7R023191 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:07:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFs6b-0005Jp-Fw for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:03:53 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA06042 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:03:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFs6X-0005Hm-Q4 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:03:49 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFs5c-000537-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:02:52 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFs4r-0004nC-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 06:02:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFs1x-0004R5-T4; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:59:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFrzr-0003of-BW for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:56:55 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA05744 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:56:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFrzn-0003Us-MD for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:56:51 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFryl-0003EQ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:55:48 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFrxn-0002jB-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 05:54:47 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3K9sEBm077612; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:54:15 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3K9sEJ18424; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:54:14 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404200954.i3K9sEJ18424@merlot.juniper.net> To: "Marc Lasserre" cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, "Loa Andersson" , "Thomas Narten" , "Alex Zinin" , vach.kompella@alcatel.com, rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 20 Apr 2004 00:33:02 +0200." <070301c4265e$5f8cc9a0$6501a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <14520.1082454853.1@juniper.net> Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 02:54:13 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Marc, > Yakov, > > The VPLS-LDP draft specifies the use of a single active full mesh at a time. > For instance, in your example, only the northern path would be active, with > a corresponding full mesh of all PE1s or PE1a-PE2b-PE2c-PE1d. > > A future draft could specify how redundant inter-domain connectivity is > achieved (election of border PE, and protocol between PEs within one > domain to indicate loss of connectivity). Please list the missing pieces in the current draft. Yakov. > > Marc > > PS: I am travelling and have limited access to email for the next 8 days. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > To: > Cc: "Loa Andersson" ; "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex > Zinin" ; ; > > Sent: April 16, 2004 16:47 > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > Folks, > > > > From the spec (Section 10.3): > > > > When more than two domains need to be connected, a full mesh of > > inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. > > > > Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): > > > > > > Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D > > > > A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 > > > > A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 > > > > What are the inter-domain spokes that would be required in this example ? > > > > Yakov. > > > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 20 13:27:04 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06306 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:27:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFynK-0008PE-A3 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:12:28 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3KHCQq5032308 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 13:12:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFyTk-0007aa-1B for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:52:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03466 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFyTi-0005Tz-DS for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:52:10 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFySj-00059V-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:51:10 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFyRk-0004qF-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:50:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFxpK-0004LD-FU; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 12:10:26 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BFxW4-0005r4-TY for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:50:37 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28073 for ; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:50:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BFxW3-0002BF-Nz for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:50:31 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxUA-0001eO-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:48:35 -0400 Received: from [64.47.48.7] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BFxRk-0000dp-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 20 Apr 2004 11:46:05 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.5.178] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:45:33 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Vach Kompella" To: "'Yakov Rekhter'" , "'Marc Lasserre'" Cc: , "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , , Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Date: Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:45:40 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <053f01c426ee$8a040e10$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <200404200954.i3K9sEJ18424@merlot.juniper.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Apr 2004 15:45:33.0179 (UTC) FILETIME=[83FE9CB0:01C426EE] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think that's a meaningful request. Will you also list the missing pieces of every draft you submit, or do you admit that there are things that we think of after the fact, improvements that come with experience and reflection? -Vach=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Yakov Rekhter [mailto:yakov@juniper.net]=20 > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:54 AM > To: Marc Lasserre > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin;=20 > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions=20 >=20 >=20 > Marc, >=20 > > Yakov, > >=20 > > The VPLS-LDP draft specifies the use of a single active=20 > full mesh at a=20 > > time. For instance, in your example, only the northern path=20 > would be=20 > > active, with a corresponding full mesh of all PE1s or=20 > > PE1a-PE2b-PE2c-PE1d. > >=20 > > A future draft could specify how redundant inter-domain=20 > connectivity=20 > > is achieved (election of border PE, and protocol between PEs within=20 > > one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). >=20 > Please list the missing pieces in the current draft. >=20 > Yakov. >=20 > >=20 > > Marc > >=20 > > PS: I am travelling and have limited access to email for the next 8=20 > > days. > >=20 > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > > To: > > Cc: "Loa Andersson" ; "Thomas Narten"=20 > ; "Alex > > Zinin" ; ; > > > > Sent: April 16, 2004 16:47 > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > >=20 > >=20 > > > Folks, > > > > > > From the spec (Section 10.3): > > > > > > When more than two domains need to be connected, a full mesh of > > > inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. > > > > > > Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): > > > > > > > > > Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D > > > > > > A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 > > > > > > A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 > > > > > > What are the inter-domain spokes that would be required in this=20 > > > example ? > > > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 22 15:21:08 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20771 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:21:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGjR5-0000Zz-TL for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:00:36 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3MJ0Zmc002225 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 15:00:35 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGjK0-0005ez-2X for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:53:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA17634 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:53:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGjJv-0002F0-Bm for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:53:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGjJ1-0001xw-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:52:16 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGjIC-0001g9-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:51:24 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGj8C-0002Hp-VD; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:41:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGiyk-0007o6-NA for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:31:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA16399 for ; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:31:15 -0400 (EDT) From: jcucchiara@mindspring.com Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGiyg-00040g-24 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:31:14 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGixj-0003kF-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:30:16 -0400 Received: from smtp6.mindspring.com ([207.69.200.110]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGixL-0003KT-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:29:51 -0400 Received: from h-66-167-249-125.cmbrmaor.dynamic.covad.net ([66.167.249.125] helo=jluciani-laptop) by smtp6.mindspring.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1BGixM-0006R9-00; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 14:29:53 -0400 Message-Id: <3.0.1.32.20040422134816.01317084@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: jcucchiara@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 13:48:16 -0400 To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Comments on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-bgp-01.txt Cc: loa@pi.se Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 Hi Folks, I have a few last call comments/questions on this draft. These are listed as they appear in the draft. There has been some discussion as to whether the data plane section of this document should be moved to a separate document if it is like the one in the ldp vpls draft. I would be in favor of a separate document if there are no differences in the data plane between the 2 drafts. 1) Table of Contents seems to be missing. 2) Section 1.1, last sentence of the first paragraph discusses "defining various deployment scenarios". Two paragraphs above, this is referred to as "deployment options" Could this be called deployment options or deployment considerations? (Deployment Scenarios implies (at least to me) a description of existing network deployments with lots of pictures and Section 5 Deployment Scenarios is more accurately described as Deployment Options or Deployment Considerations. 3) Section 1.1, 3rd Paragraph, "The control plane described here (section 3) uses ..." Please remove the word "here" so this could become "The control plane described in section 3 uses ..." 4) Figure 1. Could "A" be defined ? 5) Section 3.1 Autodiscovery The term of Autodiscovery seems to be overused in this section. Could the term "Discovery" apply to finding all PEs that participate in a given VPLS, and AutoDiscovery be used to describe the mechanism whereby PEs are autodiscovered by means of some protocol. I found it confusing to put say that configuration is a type of autodiscovery. 6) Section 3.2.1, Setup and Teardown Question on the 5th paragraph, where it says "...then Y SHOULD withdraw all its NLRIs for V." Why is this SHOULD, and not MUST? 7) Section 3.2.1, Setup and Teardown Question on the 6th paragraph, "...then X tears down its ends of the pseudowires between X and Y." If the answer to the previous question is MUST then, maybe this could be restated to say "...then X MUST tear down..." ? If the answer to the previous question remains SHOULD, then, maybe this could be restated to say "...then X SHOULD tear down..." ? 8) Section 3.2.2 Signaling PE Capabilities The 2nd paragraph which starts, "There is a new Encaps Type for VPLS (TBD)." Since this is a last call, can the TBD be resolved? Also, there was no mention of this in the IANA Considerations Section so I just wanted to verify that this was not something that should have gone into the IANA Considerations Section? 9) Section 3.2.2, The Signaling PE Capabilities The last paragraph does not state what the value of P is when the PE is supposed to strip the outermost VLAN from the layer 2 customer fram on ingress and push a VLAN on egress. Could this be stated? 10) Section 5, Deployment Scenarios As discussed above, could this be renamed to deployment options or deployment considerations? thanks, -Joan From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Apr 23 02:13:30 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA15594 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGtua-0000ci-Dq for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:11:44 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3N6BiUQ002386 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:11:44 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGtsg-0007wJ-E5 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:09:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA12109 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:09:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGtsa-0005Rw-Up for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:09:41 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGtrj-0005CP-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:08:47 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGtrG-0004wX-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 02:08:18 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGtiK-00016s-FU; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:59:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BGtcD-0007e0-66 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:52:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id BAA01972 for ; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BGtc7-0000vB-Pd for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:52:39 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BGtbD-0000ev-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:51:44 -0400 Received: from web41215.mail.yahoo.com ([66.218.93.48]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BGtan-0000PB-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 23 Apr 2004 01:51:17 -0400 Message-ID: <20040423055050.35410.qmail@web41215.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [67.161.8.79] by web41215.mail.yahoo.com via HTTP; Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:50:50 PDT Date: Thu, 22 Apr 2004 22:50:50 -0700 (PDT) From: Vishal Zinjuvadia Subject: MAC Learning for forwarding traffic To: l2vpn@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id BAA01973 Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, The draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt explains how source MAC Addresses of traffic destined to unknown unicast or broadcast destination is learned. But I could not find how we learn source MAC address of traffic destined to learned Destination MAC Addresses (Forwarded traffic). Let us assume a customer is connected to PE1, PE2 and PE3 in a provider network. An Ethernet frame with Source Address X and Destination Address Y enters the Provider=92s network at PE1. Destination Y is not learned at PE1 so the frame is broadcast to PE2 and PE3 who learn Source Address X. Now when PE2 receives an Ethernet frame with Source Address Y and Destination address X, it sends it to PE1 only since X is learned on the virtual circuit to PE1. So how does PE3 know about the MAC Address Y? It will still flood traffic destined to the MAC Address Y to both PE1 and PE2 instead of forwarding it to PE2 only. Thanks, Vishal =09 =09 __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Photos: High-quality 4x6 digital prints for 25=A2 http://photos.yahoo.com/ph/print_splash From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 12:34:34 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01041 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:34:34 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI8tl-0002ke-4m for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:24:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QGO1v6010568 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:24:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI8Zd-00043p-0Y for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:03:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29177 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BI8Zb-0001Kd-Sd for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:03:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BI8Yu-0001HE-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:02:28 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BI8YA-0001C3-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:01:42 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI8Sg-0001Zr-Ni; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:56:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI8JC-000775-NM for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:46:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA28296 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:46:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BI8JB-000016-Jm for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:46:13 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BI8IQ-0007kX-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:45:26 -0400 Received: from colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net ([207.17.137.64]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BI8HS-0007cH-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:44:26 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext2.juniper.net (8.12.3/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3QFhnBm016729; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:43:50 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i3QFhnJ05139; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:43:49 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200404261543.i3QFhnJ05139@merlot.juniper.net> To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com cc: "'Marc Lasserre'" , l2vpn@ietf.org, "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-Reply-To: Your message of "Tue, 20 Apr 2004 08:45:40 PDT." <053f01c426ee$8a040e10$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <27865.1082994229.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:43:49 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Vach, > I don't think that's a meaningful request. Will you also list the > missing pieces of every draft you submit, or do you admit that there are > things that we think of after the fact, improvements that come with > experience and reflection? We are not talking about all the "things that we think of after the fact". All I am asking is to say in the draft that specifications of redundant inter-domain connectivity is outside the scope of the draft. This is pretty much what Marc said in his reply to my original e-mail. Yakov. > > -Vach > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yakov Rekhter [mailto:yakov@juniper.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:54 AM > > To: Marc Lasserre > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin; > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > Yakov, > > > > > > The VPLS-LDP draft specifies the use of a single active > > full mesh at a > > > time. For instance, in your example, only the northern path > > would be > > > active, with a corresponding full mesh of all PE1s or > > > PE1a-PE2b-PE2c-PE1d. > > > > > > A future draft could specify how redundant inter-domain > > connectivity > > > is achieved (election of border PE, and protocol between PEs within > > > one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). > > > > Please list the missing pieces in the current draft. > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > PS: I am travelling and have limited access to email for the next 8 > > > days. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > > > To: > > > Cc: "Loa Andersson" ; "Thomas Narten" > > ; "Alex > > > Zinin" ; ; > > > > > > Sent: April 16, 2004 16:47 > > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > From the spec (Section 10.3): > > > > > > > > When more than two domains need to be connected, a full mesh of > > > > inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. > > > > > > > > Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): > > > > > > > > > > > > Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D > > > > > > > > A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 > > > > > > > > A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 > > > > > > > > What are the inter-domain spokes that would be required in this > > > > example ? > > > > > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 12:57:13 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02408 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:57:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI9CH-00014o-5v for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:43:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QGh9mQ004130 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:43:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI97I-0007w4-UO for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:38:00 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA01343 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:37:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BI97H-00042o-CK for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:37:59 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BI96I-0003sY-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:36:59 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BI95F-0003hm-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:35:53 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI8vk-0003bt-Gu; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:26:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BI8gR-0006DT-Q3 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:10:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA29561 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:10:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BI8gQ-0001s4-Fh for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:10:14 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BI8fM-0001m1-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:09:08 -0400 Received: from [64.47.48.7] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BI8eb-0001dU-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 12:08:21 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.5.178] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:07:47 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Vach Kompella" To: Subject: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 09:05:53 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <080d01c42ba8$5b5cb940$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2004 16:07:47.0945 (UTC) FILETIME=[9E0E3D90:01C42BA8] Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Adds the Generalized PWid FEC signaling, removes signaling VLAN tags, cleans up references, cleans up the discovery section. Vach Kompella IP Division, Alcatel vach.kompella@alcatel.com +1 650 237-5152 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 14:32:00 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08419 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIAiK-0002aC-Uk for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:20:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QIKKRT009928 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:20:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIAhE-0001VO-A3 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:19:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA06870 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:19:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIAhB-0003nH-Qi for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:19:09 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAdk-0003BJ-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:15:37 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAbm-0002sy-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:13:34 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BIAUP-0006p9-R3 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:05:58 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIALm-00039J-4V; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:57:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIAAJ-0007id-Og for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:45:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA05369 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:45:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIAAH-0001KG-AR for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:45:09 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIA9N-0001GZ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:44:14 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-2.cisco.com ([64.102.122.149]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIA8u-0001BV-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:43:44 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-2.cisco.com (64.102.124.13) by rtp-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2004 10:42:22 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (erosen-u10.cisco.com [161.44.70.36]) by rtp-core-2.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3QHhA6L027858; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:43:10 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404261743.i3QHhA6L027858@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> To: Yakov Rekhter cc: vach.kompella@alcatel.com, "'Marc Lasserre'" , l2vpn@ietf.org, "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 26 Apr 2004 08:43:49 -0700. <200404261543.i3QFhnJ05139@merlot.juniper.net> Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:43:10 -0400 From: Eric Rosen Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 > say in the draft that specifications of redundant inter-domain > connectivity is outside the scope of the draft. This sort of thing would generally be handled by the auto-discovery protocol, and it's already been noted that the auto-discovery protocol is out of scope for this draft. From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 14:32:02 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08439 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:32:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIAiP-0002cY-BG for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:20:25 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QIKPZQ010070 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:20:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIAhV-0001j3-46 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:19:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA06979 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:19:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIAhS-0003qt-OL for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:19:26 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAeE-0003GS-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:16:08 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAbu-0002rx-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:13:42 -0400 Received: from optimus22.ietf.org ([132.151.6.22] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BIASw-0006mC-Bf for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:04:26 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIAE1-0006rB-Ov; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:49:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIA7q-00008j-AH for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:42:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA04965 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:42:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIA7o-00015M-2E for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:42:36 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIA6k-0000v8-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:41:31 -0400 Received: from [65.246.255.50] (helo=mx2.foretec.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIA5a-0000nB-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:40:18 -0400 Received: from lightwave.chromisys.com ([63.102.55.206]) by mx2.foretec.com with esmtp (Exim 4.24) id 1BI9y0-0005wE-PV for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:32:28 -0400 Received: by lightwave.chromisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:31:41 -0700 Message-ID: <9D42C6E086250248810DCADA39CE7EFC017AD7EE@nimbus.chromisys.com> From: John Drake To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com, "'Yakov Rekhter'" , "'Marc Lasserre'" Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 10:31:40 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 > -----Original Message----- > From: Vach Kompella [mailto:vkompella@timetra.com] > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:46 AM > To: 'Yakov Rekhter'; 'Marc Lasserre' > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; 'Loa Andersson'; 'Thomas Narten'; 'Alex Zinin'; > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > I don't think that's a meaningful request. Will you also list the > missing pieces of every draft you submit, or do you admit that there are > things that we think of after the fact, improvements that come with > experience and reflection? [John Drake] You're equating two different things. I.e., the things that you know you are not addressing, and things that haven't been thought of yet. It is certainly possible, and is standard practice, to list the former. > > -Vach > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Yakov Rekhter [mailto:yakov@juniper.net] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:54 AM > > To: Marc Lasserre > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin; > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > Yakov, > > > > > > The VPLS-LDP draft specifies the use of a single active > > full mesh at a > > > time. For instance, in your example, only the northern path > > would be > > > active, with a corresponding full mesh of all PE1s or > > > PE1a-PE2b-PE2c-PE1d. > > > > > > A future draft could specify how redundant inter-domain > > connectivity > > > is achieved (election of border PE, and protocol between PEs within > > > one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). > > > > Please list the missing pieces in the current draft. > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > PS: I am travelling and have limited access to email for the next 8 > > > days. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > > > To: > > > Cc: "Loa Andersson" ; "Thomas Narten" > > ; "Alex > > > Zinin" ; ; > > > > > > Sent: April 16, 2004 16:47 > > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > From the spec (Section 10.3): > > > > > > > > When more than two domains need to be connected, a full mesh of > > > > inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. > > > > > > > > Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): > > > > > > > > > > > > Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D > > > > > > > > A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 > > > > > > > > A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 > > > > > > > > What are the inter-domain spokes that would be required in this > > > > example ? > > > > > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > > > > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 15:06:19 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA11084 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:06:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBKe-00031W-VZ for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:59:57 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QIxuZw011618 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:59:56 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBED-0001tp-N8 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:53:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09978 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:53:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIBEA-0006wR-V5 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:53:15 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBDG-0006sY-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:52:19 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBCr-0006nk-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:51:53 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIB88-0001Bh-RO; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:47:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIAvs-0006Lk-2X for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:34:20 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08692 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:34:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIAvp-0005UZ-AJ for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:34:17 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAus-0005Pl-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:33:19 -0400 Received: from [64.47.48.7] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAuA-0005Ht-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:32:34 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.5.178] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:32:02 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Vach Kompella" To: "'John Drake'" , , "'Yakov Rekhter'" , "'Marc Lasserre'" Cc: , "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:30:08 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <081901c42bbc$823f2980$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <9D42C6E086250248810DCADA39CE7EFC017AD7EE@nimbus.chromisys.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2004 18:32:02.0512 (UTC) FILETIME=[C4945D00:01C42BBC] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable John, I think I know the difference between the two (given the issue with discovery, "known but not addressed in the VPLS LDP draft because of alternate solutions", and tagged as such in the draft). Here is a line from section 7.2.2 in the version that was being critiqued: Further descriptions of how to deal with failures expeditiously with different configurations will be described in other documents, such as [VPLS-BRIDGING]. The reason we don't want to talk about this issue is not because we cannot come up with a solution. Rather, there are issues which Norm Finn brought up (in a now expired draft) about how to manage failover. It is not simply a matter of switching to the standby PE. The issue is how to prevent flooding until the right time, interactions between failover and customer spanning tree, etc. That is why I determine that this is not a "known but unaddressed issue" and that it better falls into the "unexplored and indeterminate" category. I haven't seen a good description of those issues. Perhaps there is one. In its place, I have a draft that explores the issues with just jumping in with a failover solution which Norm should probably revive so we can craft an appropriate solution. I think that warrants coming up with more than a solution that addresses a simple PE switch. -Vach=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org] On=20 > Behalf Of John Drake > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 10:32 AM > To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com; 'Yakov Rekhter'; 'Marc Lasserre' > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; 'Loa Andersson'; 'Thomas Narten'; 'Alex=20 > Zinin'; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vach Kompella [mailto:vkompella@timetra.com] > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:46 AM > > To: 'Yakov Rekhter'; 'Marc Lasserre' > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; 'Loa Andersson'; 'Thomas Narten'; 'Alex Zinin';=20 > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > > Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > >=20 > > I don't think that's a meaningful request. Will you also list the=20 > > missing pieces of every draft you submit, or do you admit=20 > that there=20 > > are things that we think of after the fact, improvements that come=20 > > with experience and reflection? > [John Drake]=20 >=20 > You're equating two different things. I.e., the things that=20 > you know you are not addressing, and things that haven't been=20 > thought of yet. It is certainly possible, and is standard=20 > practice, to list the former. >=20 > >=20 > > -Vach > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Yakov Rekhter [mailto:yakov@juniper.net] > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:54 AM > > > To: Marc Lasserre > > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin;=20 > > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > > Yakov, > > > > > > > > The VPLS-LDP draft specifies the use of a single active > > > full mesh at a > > > > time. For instance, in your example, only the northern path > > > would be > > > > active, with a corresponding full mesh of all PE1s or=20 > > > > PE1a-PE2b-PE2c-PE1d. > > > > > > > > A future draft could specify how redundant inter-domain > > > connectivity > > > > is achieved (election of border PE, and protocol between PEs=20 > > > > within one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). > > > > > > Please list the missing pieces in the current draft. > > > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > PS: I am travelling and have limited access to email=20 > for the next=20 > > > > 8 days. > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > > > > To: > > > > Cc: "Loa Andersson" ; "Thomas Narten" > > > ; "Alex > > > > Zinin" ; ;=20 > > > > > > > > Sent: April 16, 2004 16:47 > > > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > > > From the spec (Section 10.3): > > > > > > > > > > When more than two domains need to be connected, a=20 > full mesh of > > > > > inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. > > > > > > > > > > Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D > > > > > > > > > > A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 > > > > > > > > > > A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 > > > > > > > > > > What are the inter-domain spokes that would be=20 > required in this=20 > > > > > example ? > > > > > > > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >=20 >=20 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 15:19:23 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12751 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:19:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBZG-0005Xj-2a for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:15:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QJF2nl021304 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:15:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBLA-0004V8-L8 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:00:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA10481 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:00:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIBL7-0007RX-O7 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:00:25 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBJm-0007Ld-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:59:03 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBIs-0007HG-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:58:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIB8B-0001CD-E3; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:47:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIB0R-0007pu-8s for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:39:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08936 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:38:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIB0O-0005o2-J5 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:39:00 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAzT-0005le-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:38:03 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=kummer.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIAyt-0005fy-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:37:27 -0400 Received: from kummer.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kummer.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3QIYlPg094055; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:34:47 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kireeti@juniper.net) Received: from localhost (kireeti@localhost) by kummer.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id i3QIYlhc094052; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:34:47 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kummer.juniper.net: kireeti owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:34:47 -0700 (PDT) From: Kireeti Kompella To: Eric Rosen cc: Yakov Rekhter , Vach Kompella , "'Marc Lasserre'" , l2vpn@ietf.org, "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-Reply-To: <200404261743.i3QHhA6L027858@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> Message-ID: <20040426113025.X93930@kummer.juniper.net> References: <200404261743.i3QHhA6L027858@rtp-core-2.cisco.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, Eric Rosen wrote: > > say in the draft that specifications of redundant inter-domain > > connectivity is outside the scope of the draft. > > This sort of thing would generally be handled by the auto-discovery > protocol, and it's already been noted that the auto-discovery protocol is > out of scope for this draft. I don't see what redundant inter-domain connectivity has to do with auto-discovery. There is text in the draft on redundant spoke connections (section 10.2 in -02 version), and on multi-domain service (section 10.3); so clearly both inter-domain and redundancy are in scope. Redundant inter-domain connectivity is currently not specified, so it makes sense to state that. Kireeti. ------- From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 15:19:53 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12802 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:19:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBZH-0005ZM-77 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:15:03 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QJF3UK021403 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:15:03 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBLy-0005Fj-UI for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:01:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA10581 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:01:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIBLv-0007Wp-VV for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:01:16 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBL4-0007RD-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:00:23 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBJj-0007L8-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:58:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIB8D-0001Cd-M7; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:47:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIB3V-0008VQ-TL for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:42:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA09258 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:42:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIB3T-000625-6d for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:42:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIB2a-0005yy-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:41:16 -0400 Received: from natint2.juniper.net ([207.17.136.150] helo=kummer.juniper.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIB2G-0005uN-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:40:57 -0400 Received: from kummer.juniper.net (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by kummer.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3) with ESMTP id i3QIdiPg094119; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:39:44 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from kireeti@juniper.net) Received: from localhost (kireeti@localhost) by kummer.juniper.net (8.12.8p1/8.12.3/Submit) with ESMTP id i3QIdip2094116; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:39:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Authentication-Warning: kummer.juniper.net: kireeti owned process doing -bs Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:39:44 -0700 (PDT) From: Kireeti Kompella To: Vach Kompella cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted In-Reply-To: <080d01c42ba8$5b5cb940$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> Message-ID: <20040426113453.H93930@kummer.juniper.net> References: <080d01c42ba8$5b5cb940$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Vach, Marc: On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, Vach Kompella wrote: > Adds the Generalized PWid FEC signaling, removes signaling VLAN tags, > cleans up references, cleans up the discovery section. Whoops, didn't know you were spinning a new draft. Some minor edits: Last two sentences of section 10.2.2 (-02 version): To enable faster convergence, the PE3-rs device where the secondary pseudowire got activated may send out a flush message, using the MAC TLV as defined in Section 6, to all PE-rs nodes. Upon receiving the message, PE-rs nodes flush the MAC addresses associated with that VPLS instance. I remember reading on the L2VPN list that flushing MAC addresses was a bad idea (Ali?) -- the thing to do is to age them faster. So, when you say "flush", do you mean flush or age quickly? Also, reference to section 6 should really be to section 7.2.1 (in old version). Kireeti. ------- From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 15:36:11 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA14021 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBor-0000Hr-AX for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:31:09 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QJV9G8001099 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:31:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBgC-0007gx-7B for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:22:12 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA12952 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:22:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIBgA-0000pv-VS for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:22:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBfA-0000lH-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:21:08 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBeL-0000jM-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:20:17 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBaE-0005u2-Va; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:16:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBLv-0005EB-AB for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:01:15 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA10569 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:01:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIBLs-0007WJ-9R for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:01:12 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBL0-0007QI-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:00:19 -0400 Received: from [64.47.48.7] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIBJY-0007Im-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 14:58:48 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.5.178] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:58:18 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Vach Kompella" To: "'Kireeti Kompella'" , "'Vach Kompella'" Cc: Subject: RE: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:56:25 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <081c01c42bc0$2dbef120$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <20040426113453.H93930@kummer.juniper.net> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 26 Apr 2004 18:58:18.0711 (UTC) FILETIME=[70113E70:01C42BC0] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I thought the addition of the generalized FEC needed a new rev. A flush should turn on a fast-aging as opposed to the normal slow-aging timer, kind of replacing the TCN. -Vach=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: Kireeti Kompella [mailto:kireeti@juniper.net]=20 > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:40 AM > To: Vach Kompella > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted >=20 >=20 > Vach, Marc: >=20 > On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, Vach Kompella wrote: >=20 > > Adds the Generalized PWid FEC signaling, removes signaling=20 > VLAN tags,=20 > > cleans up references, cleans up the discovery section. >=20 > Whoops, didn't know you were spinning a new draft. Some minor edits: >=20 > Last two sentences of section 10.2.2 (-02 version): >=20 > To enable faster convergence, the PE3-rs device where the > secondary pseudowire got activated may send out a flush message, > using the MAC TLV as defined in Section 6, to all PE-rs nodes. Upon > receiving the message, PE-rs nodes flush the MAC addresses > associated with that VPLS instance. >=20 > I remember reading on the L2VPN list that flushing MAC=20 > addresses was a bad idea (Ali?) -- the thing to do is to age=20 > them faster. So, when you say "flush", do you mean flush or=20 > age quickly? >=20 > Also, reference to section 6 should really be to section=20 > 7.2.1 (in old version). >=20 > Kireeti. > ------- >=20 From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 17:08:13 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA22932 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:08:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIDBG-0001kZ-FM for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:22 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QKwM8h006720 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:22 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BICzo-0006yV-N0 for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:46:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18354 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:46:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BICzm-00003g-R3 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:46:30 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BICoy-0005rN-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:35:22 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BICXH-0004Z8-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:17:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBqz-0000kQ-V0; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:33:21 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIBkS-0008Gl-D2 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:26:36 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13223; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:26:33 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404261926.PAA13223@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 15:26:33 -0400 Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=AWL,MIME_BOUND_NEXTPART, NO_REAL_NAME autolearn=no version=2.60 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Virtual Private LAN Services over MPLS Author(s) : M. Lasserre, V. Kompella Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt Pages : 24 Date : 2004-4-26 This document describes a virtual private LAN service (VPLS) solution over MPLS, also known as Transparent LAN Services (TLS). A VPLS creates an emulated LAN segment for a given set of users. It delivers a layer 2 broadcast domain that is fully capable of learning and forwarding on Ethernet MAC addresses that is closed to a given set of users. Many VPLS services can be supported from a single PE node. This document describes the control plane functions of signaling demultiplexor labels, extending [PWE3-CTRL] and rudimentary support for availability (multi-homing). It is agnostic to discovery protocols. The data plane functions of forwarding are also described, focusing, in particular, on the learning of MAC addresses. The encapsulation of VPLS packets is described by [PWE3- ETHERNET]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-26150517.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-4-26150517.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 17:42:37 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25839 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:42:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIDZV-00015q-8M for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:23:25 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QLNPDD004198 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:23:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIDNr-0005va-0D for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:11:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA23432 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:11:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIDNo-0004GJ-QG for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:11:20 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIDNE-0004D9-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:10:44 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIDMQ-00045G-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:09:54 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIDBR-0001rM-HV; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:58:33 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BICyX-00066l-RD for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:45:14 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA17944 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:45:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BICyV-0007bF-SG for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:45:11 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BICnU-0005cF-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:33:50 -0400 Received: from rtp-iport-1.cisco.com ([64.102.122.148]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BICU6-0004Uf-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:13:46 -0400 Received: from rtp-core-1.cisco.com (64.102.124.12) by rtp-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Apr 2004 13:26:43 -0700 X-BrightmailFiltered: true Received: from cisco.com (erosen-u10.cisco.com [161.44.70.36]) by rtp-core-1.cisco.com (8.12.10/8.12.6) with ESMTP id i3QKDDYu008960; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:13:13 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200404262013.i3QKDDYu008960@rtp-core-1.cisco.com> To: Kireeti Kompella cc: Yakov Rekhter , Vach Kompella , "'Marc Lasserre'" , l2vpn@ietf.org, "'Loa Andersson'" , "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions In-reply-to: Your message of Mon, 26 Apr 2004 11:34:47 -0700. <20040426113025.X93930@kummer.juniper.net> Reply-To: erosen@cisco.com User-Agent: EMH/1.14.1 SEMI/1.14.3 (Ushinoya) FLIM/1.14.3 (=?ISO-8859-4?Q?Unebigory=F2mae?=) APEL/10.3 Emacs/21.3 (sparc-sun-solaris2.8) MULE/5.0 (SAKAKI) MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI 1.14.3 - "Ushinoya") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:13:13 -0400 From: Eric Rosen Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Kireeti> I don't see what redundant inter-domain connectivity has to do with Kireeti> auto-discovery. It's possible that I'm confused about just what you mean by "redundant inter-domain connectivity". I thought this was a matter of determining just which pairs of border routers are connected by pseudowires, and reacting to failures by potentially choosing different pairs. Isn't it the auto- discovery protocol which tells you which pairs of routers to connect by pseudowires? Kireeti> so clearly both inter-domain and redundancy are in scope. Actually, I think inter-domain is not in the charter ;-) From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Apr 26 17:44:16 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA25929 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:44:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIDc2-0001ni-P7 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:26:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3QLQ2tC006918 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:26:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIDVb-0007aL-2u for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:19:23 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA23891 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:19:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIDVY-0004nW-Pm for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:19:20 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIDUb-0004hU-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:18:22 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIDTt-0004eP-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 17:17:37 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIDC9-0002Rf-15; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:59:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BID0Y-0007O4-Jm for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:47:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA18656 for ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:47:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BID0W-0000E6-HG for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:47:16 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BICq4-00062h-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:36:31 -0400 Received: from lightwave.chromisys.com ([63.102.55.206]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BICZi-0004bg-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 16:19:34 -0400 Received: by lightwave.chromisys.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:18:59 -0700 Message-ID: <9D42C6E086250248810DCADA39CE7EFC017AD7FB@nimbus.chromisys.com> From: John Drake To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com, vach.kompella@alcatel.com, "'Yakov Rekhter'" , "'Marc Lasserre'" Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, "'Thomas Narten'" , "'Alex Zinin'" , rick.wilder@alcatel.com Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions Date: Mon, 26 Apr 2004 13:18:50 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Vach, I don't know whether you intended to, but I think you made my case for me. Thanks, John > -----Original Message----- > From: Vach Kompella [mailto:vkompella@timetra.com] > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 11:30 AM > To: John Drake; vach.kompella@alcatel.com; 'Yakov Rekhter'; 'Marc > Lasserre' > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; 'Loa Andersson'; 'Thomas Narten'; 'Alex Zinin'; > rick.wilder@alcatel.com > Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > John, > > I think I know the difference between the two (given the issue with > discovery, "known but not addressed in the VPLS LDP draft because of > alternate solutions", and tagged as such in the draft). > > Here is a line from section 7.2.2 in the version that was being > critiqued: > > Further descriptions of how to deal with failures > expeditiously with different configurations will be > described in other documents, such as [VPLS-BRIDGING]. > > The reason we don't want to talk about this issue is not because we > cannot come up with a solution. Rather, there are issues which Norm > Finn brought up (in a now expired draft) about how to manage failover. > It is not simply a matter of switching to the standby PE. The issue is > how to prevent flooding until the right time, interactions between > failover and customer spanning tree, etc. > > That is why I determine that this is not a "known but unaddressed issue" > and that it better falls into the "unexplored and indeterminate" > category. I haven't seen a good description of those issues. Perhaps > there is one. In its place, I have a draft that explores the issues > with just jumping in with a failover solution which Norm should probably > revive so we can craft an appropriate solution. I think that warrants > coming up with more than a solution that addresses a simple PE switch. > > -Vach > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org] On > > Behalf Of John Drake > > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 10:32 AM > > To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com; 'Yakov Rekhter'; 'Marc Lasserre' > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; 'Loa Andersson'; 'Thomas Narten'; 'Alex > > Zinin'; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > > Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Vach Kompella [mailto:vkompella@timetra.com] > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 8:46 AM > > > To: 'Yakov Rekhter'; 'Marc Lasserre' > > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; 'Loa Andersson'; 'Thomas Narten'; 'Alex Zinin'; > > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > > > Subject: RE: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > I don't think that's a meaningful request. Will you also list the > > > missing pieces of every draft you submit, or do you admit > > that there > > > are things that we think of after the fact, improvements that come > > > with experience and reflection? > > [John Drake] > > > > You're equating two different things. I.e., the things that > > you know you are not addressing, and things that haven't been > > thought of yet. It is certainly possible, and is standard > > practice, to list the former. > > > > > > > > -Vach > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Yakov Rekhter [mailto:yakov@juniper.net] > > > > Sent: Tuesday, April 20, 2004 2:54 AM > > > > To: Marc Lasserre > > > > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; Loa Andersson; Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin; > > > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com; rick.wilder@alcatel.com > > > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc, > > > > > > > > > Yakov, > > > > > > > > > > The VPLS-LDP draft specifies the use of a single active > > > > full mesh at a > > > > > time. For instance, in your example, only the northern path > > > > would be > > > > > active, with a corresponding full mesh of all PE1s or > > > > > PE1a-PE2b-PE2c-PE1d. > > > > > > > > > > A future draft could specify how redundant inter-domain > > > > connectivity > > > > > is achieved (election of border PE, and protocol between PEs > > > > > within one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). > > > > > > > > Please list the missing pieces in the current draft. > > > > > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Marc > > > > > > > > > > PS: I am travelling and have limited access to email > > for the next > > > > > 8 days. > > > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > > > From: "Yakov Rekhter" > > > > > To: > > > > > Cc: "Loa Andersson" ; "Thomas Narten" > > > > ; "Alex > > > > > Zinin" ; ; > > > > > > > > > > Sent: April 16, 2004 16:47 > > > > > Subject: Re: wg last call on ldp-based vpls solutions > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > > > > > > > From the spec (Section 10.3): > > > > > > > > > > > > When more than two domains need to be connected, a > > full mesh of > > > > > > inter-domain spokes is created between border PEs. > > > > > > > > > > > > Consider the following example (it shows only the border PEs): > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Domain A Domain B Domain C Domain D > > > > > > > > > > > > A-PE1---B-PE1 B-PE2---C-PE1 C-PE2---D-PE1 > > > > > > > > > > > > A-PE2---B-PE3 B-PE4---C-PE3 C-PE4---D-PE2 > > > > > > > > > > > > What are the inter-domain spokes that would be > > required in this > > > > > > example ? > > > > > > > > > > > > Yakov. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 27 16:52:03 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00445 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIZLu-0005iY-Bg for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:38:50 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3RKcoX5021974 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:38:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIYnM-0001xl-3P for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:03:08 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA25791 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:03:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIYnI-0000fx-GX for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:03:04 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIYmN-0000Yv-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:02:07 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIYlR-0000Sm-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 16:01:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIYZi-00007z-0K; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:49:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIYUA-0007Cc-8L for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:43:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA24795 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:43:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIYU6-0006YT-Lb for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:43:14 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIYT6-0006Sl-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:42:13 -0400 Received: from smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([66.163.170.84]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIYSF-0006NR-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 15:41:19 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO RAKHILAPTOP) (vishal.sharma@sbcglobal.net@63.202.176.71 with login) by smtp814.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 27 Apr 2004 19:16:32 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Vishal Sharma" To: "Vishal Zinjuvadia" , Subject: RE: MAC Learning for forwarding traffic Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:16:18 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <20040423055050.35410.qmail@web41215.mail.yahoo.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > -----Original Message----- > From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > Vishal Zinjuvadia > Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2004 10:51 PM > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: MAC Learning for forwarding traffic > > > Hi, > > The draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-02.txt explains how > source MAC Addresses of traffic destined to unknown > unicast or broadcast destination is learned. But I > could not find how we learn source MAC address of > traffic destined to learned Destination MAC Addresses > (Forwarded traffic). Let us assume a customer is > connected to PE1, PE2 and PE3 in a provider network. > An Ethernet frame with Source Address X and > Destination Address Y enters the Providers network at > PE1. Destination Y is not learned at PE1 so the frame > is broadcast to PE2 and PE3 who learn Source Address > X. Now when PE2 receives an Ethernet frame with Source > Address Y and Destination address X, it sends it to > PE1 only since X is learned on the virtual circuit to > PE1. So how does PE3 know about the MAC Address Y? It > will still flood traffic destined to the MAC Address Y > to both PE1 and PE2 instead of forwarding it to PE2 > only. That is correct. But PE3 will (eventually) learn of MAC address Y (that is, that it is located behing PE2), when it receives a response from Y to traffic it sent (flooded) to Y. -Vishal From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Apr 27 21:57:37 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (www.iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16882 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIeIw-00019H-05 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:56:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3S1u54m004410 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:56:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIeEM-0000eX-7F for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:51:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16575 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:51:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIeEH-0005Ku-7e for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:51:17 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIeDJ-0005De-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:50:17 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIeCS-00056Z-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:49:24 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIe9B-0008VP-GZ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:46:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIe6c-00084D-Ft for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:43:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA16293 for ; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIe6X-0004Kv-Kv for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:43:17 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIe5e-0004Ca-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:42:22 -0400 Received: from [66.46.48.5] (helo=IPOfCard1.guest-tek.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIe4z-00045T-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:41:41 -0400 Received: from sajassi-w2k4.cisco.com ([192.168.1.160]) by IPOfCard1.guest-tek.com (8.11.6/8.8.7) with ESMTP id i3S1fH320081; Tue, 27 Apr 2004 21:41:17 -0400 Message-Id: <4.3.2.7.2.20040427125057.02d692e0@airborne.cisco.com> X-Sender: sajassi@airborne.cisco.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Tue, 27 Apr 2004 12:54:55 -0700 To: Kireeti Kompella , Vach Kompella From: Ali Sajassi Subject: Re: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org In-Reply-To: <20040426113453.H93930@kummer.juniper.net> References: <080d01c42ba8$5b5cb940$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> <080d01c42ba8$5b5cb940$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.7 required=5.0 tests=DATE_IN_PAST_03_06 autolearn=no version=2.60 At 11:39 AM 4/26/2004 -0700, Kireeti Kompella wrote: >Vach, Marc: > >On Mon, 26 Apr 2004, Vach Kompella wrote: > > > Adds the Generalized PWid FEC signaling, removes signaling VLAN tags, > > cleans up references, cleans up the discovery section. > >Whoops, didn't know you were spinning a new draft. Some minor edits: > >Last two sentences of section 10.2.2 (-02 version): > > To enable faster convergence, the PE3-rs device where the > secondary pseudowire got activated may send out a flush message, > using the MAC TLV as defined in Section 6, to all PE-rs nodes. Upon > receiving the message, PE-rs nodes flush the MAC addresses > associated with that VPLS instance. > >I remember reading on the L2VPN list that flushing MAC addresses was a >bad idea (Ali?) -- the thing to do is to age them faster. So, when >you say "flush", do you mean flush or age quickly? Upon a failure of a non-redundant link, flushing MAC addresses is a bad idea since it creates intermittent broadcast storm. But flushing MAC addresses upon activation of a redundant link is the right thing to do in order to avoid black holing of user traffic. -Ali >Also, reference to section 6 should really be to section 7.2.1 (in old >version). > >Kireeti. >------- From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Apr 28 18:00:21 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (iesg.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id SAA26875 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 18:00:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIwuz-0005kD-Vn for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:48:38 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3SLmbRB022082 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:48:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIwgh-0006BC-FW for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:33:51 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA24652 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:33:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIwgd-0001SW-RA for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:33:47 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIwg0-0001MT-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:33:09 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIwer-0001CJ-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:31:57 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIwML-0002rr-3B; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 17:12:49 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BIvFb-0001pG-5E for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:01:47 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13545 for ; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:01:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BIvFY-00043l-9C for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:01:44 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BIvEb-0003xY-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 16:00:46 -0400 Received: from smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([66.163.168.187]) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BIvDc-0003qQ-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 28 Apr 2004 15:59:44 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO RAKHILAPTOP) (vishal.sharma@sbcglobal.net@63.206.88.161 with login) by smtp808.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 28 Apr 2004 19:59:41 -0000 Reply-To: From: "Vishal Sharma" To: , Subject: RE: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt:Discovery references Date: Wed, 28 Apr 2004 12:59:20 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <080d01c42ba8$5b5cb940$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.1 required=5.0 tests=AWL autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Vach et al, With much discussion about discovery and failure, I went searching for some of the discovery alternatives, listed in Sec. 6 of the latest rev. However, some of the refernces appear a bit outdated ... ***** [BGP-DISC] "Using BGP as an Auto-Discovery Mechanism for Network- based VPNs", draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-02.txt, Work in Progress, April 2004. [LDP-DISC] "Discovering Nodes and Services in a VPLS Network", draft-stokes-ppvpn-vpls-discover-00.txt, Work in Progress, June 2002. ****** The latest BGP discovery doc. is at ver. 03., and I couldn't find the latest LDP discovery document on the IETF drafts directory. Has the name changed? How does one locate it? -Vishal > -----Original Message----- > From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > Vach Kompella > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 9:06 AM > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted > > > Adds the Generalized PWid FEC signaling, removes signaling VLAN tags, > cleans up references, cleans up the discovery section. > > Vach Kompella > IP Division, Alcatel > vach.kompella@alcatel.com > +1 650 237-5152 > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 29 15:27:48 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA22688 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:27:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJH88-0005Lo-HV for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:23:38 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3TJNW4L020564 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:23:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJGta-0004dN-3B for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:08:30 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA20465 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:08:24 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJGtR-0003CK-Qt for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:08:21 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJGsW-0003AB-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:07:24 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJGsL-00037y-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 15:07:13 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJGgk-0003kd-JU; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 14:55:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJFWS-0002bN-M4 for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:40:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA15648 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:40:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJFWN-0003v5-6T for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:40:27 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJFVN-0003ei-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:39:26 -0400 Received: from sc-f100-01.extremenetworks.com ([63.251.106.30] helo=extrgate1.extremenetworks.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJFUu-0003OI-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 13:38:56 -0400 Received: by extrgate1.extremenetworks.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) id ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:38:03 -0700 Message-ID: <3DC3910A44FBD94B8513C8E2A3F220E1564784@sc-msexch-16.extremenetworks.com> From: Olen Stokes To: "'v.sharma@ieee.org'" , vach.kompella@alcatel.com, l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt:Discovery references Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 10:36:32 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2656.59) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 I received enough complaints about the LDP discovery proposal not being general enough that I let it expire. Cheers, Olen > -----Original Message----- > From: Vishal Sharma [mailto:v.sharma@ieee.org] > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM > To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com; l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt:Discovery > references > > > Vach et al, > > With much discussion about discovery and failure, I went searching > for some of the discovery alternatives, listed in Sec. 6 of the > latest rev. > > However, some of the refernces appear a bit outdated ... > > ***** > [BGP-DISC] "Using BGP as an Auto-Discovery Mechanism for Network- > based VPNs", draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-02.txt, Work in > Progress, > April 2004. > > > [LDP-DISC] "Discovering Nodes and Services in a VPLS Network", > draft-stokes-ppvpn-vpls-discover-00.txt, Work in Progress, June > 2002. > ****** > > The latest BGP discovery doc. is at ver. 03., and I couldn't find > the latest LDP discovery document on the IETF drafts directory. > > Has the name changed? How does one locate it? > > -Vishal > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of > > Vach Kompella > > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 9:06 AM > > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted > > > > > > Adds the Generalized PWid FEC signaling, removes signaling > VLAN tags, > > cleans up references, cleans up the discovery section. > > > > Vach Kompella > > IP Division, Alcatel > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com > > +1 650 237-5152 > > > From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Apr 29 20:26:54 2004 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (optimus.ietf.org [132.151.1.19]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA13064 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:26:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJLnC-00009C-TM for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:22:15 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id i3U0MEgY000566 for l2vpn-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:22:14 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJLfn-0007NN-Sl for l2vpn-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:14:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA12676 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:14:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJLfi-0003SD-KM for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:14:30 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJLek-0003PA-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:13:31 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org ([132.151.1.19]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJLeL-0003MC-00 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:13:05 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJLbN-0006tP-Hg; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:10:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1BJLV6-0005wO-0B for l2vpn@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:03:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA12211 for ; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:03:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org ([132.151.6.1] helo=ietf-mx) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1BJLV0-0002i9-MI for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:03:26 -0400 Received: from exim by ietf-mx with spam-scanned (Exim 4.12) id 1BJLU9-0002eg-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:02:33 -0400 Received: from [64.47.48.7] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1BJLTE-0002XR-00 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 29 Apr 2004 20:01:36 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.5.178] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:01:03 -0700 Reply-To: From: "Vach Kompella" To: "'Olen Stokes'" , , , Subject: RE: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt:Discovery references Date: Thu, 29 Apr 2004 17:01:02 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <003301c42e46$3aeff7d0$0101010a@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 In-Reply-To: <3DC3910A44FBD94B8513C8E2A3F220E1564784@sc-msexch-16.extremenetworks.com> Importance: Normal X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Apr 2004 00:01:03.0758 (UTC) FILETIME=[3A84B2E0:01C42E46] Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.60 (1.212-2003-09-23-exp) on ietf-mx.ietf.org X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=none autolearn=no version=2.60 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Thanks. I will update the draft and remove the ref to LDP Discovery and fix the BGP auto disc reference. -Vach=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org] On=20 > Behalf Of Olen Stokes > Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 10:37 AM > To: 'v.sharma@ieee.org'; vach.kompella@alcatel.com; l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: revised=20 > draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt:Discovery references >=20 >=20 >=20 > I received enough complaints about the LDP discovery proposal=20 > not being general enough that I let it expire. >=20 > Cheers, > Olen >=20 > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Vishal Sharma [mailto:v.sharma@ieee.org] > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 3:59 PM > > To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com; l2vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt:Discovery > > references > >=20 > >=20 > > Vach et al, > >=20 > > With much discussion about discovery and failure, I went=20 > searching for=20 > > some of the discovery alternatives, listed in Sec. 6 of the latest=20 > > rev. > >=20 > > However, some of the refernces appear a bit outdated ... > >=20 > > ***** > > [BGP-DISC] "Using BGP as an Auto-Discovery Mechanism for Network- > > based VPNs", draft-ietf-l3vpn-bgpvpn-auto-02.txt, Work in > > Progress,=20 > > April 2004.=20 > > =20 > >=20 > > [LDP-DISC] "Discovering Nodes and Services in a VPLS Network",=20 > > draft-stokes-ppvpn-vpls-discover-00.txt, Work in Progress, June=20 > > 2002. > > ****** > >=20 > > The latest BGP discovery doc. is at ver. 03., and I=20 > couldn't find the=20 > > latest LDP discovery document on the IETF drafts directory. > >=20 > > Has the name changed? How does one locate it? > >=20 > > -Vishal > > =20 > >=20 > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: l2vpn-admin@ietf.org=20 > [mailto:l2vpn-admin@ietf.org]On Behalf Of=20 > > > Vach Kompella >=20 > > > Sent: Monday, April 26, 2004 9:06 AM > > > To: l2vpn@ietf.org > > > Subject: revised draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-03.txt has been posted > > >=20 > > >=20 > > > Adds the Generalized PWid FEC signaling, removes signaling > > VLAN tags, > > > cleans up references, cleans up the discovery section. > > >=20 > > > Vach Kompella > > > IP Division, Alcatel > > > vach.kompella@alcatel.com > > > +1 650 237-5152 > > >=20 > >=20 >=20