From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 4 10:13:02 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07716 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:13:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CETjQ-0008IN-KN for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:22:28 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CETZ4-00078D-G4; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:11:46 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CETTe-0005Pv-9I for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:06:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07032 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:06:07 -0400 (EDT) Received: from colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net ([207.17.137.57]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CETci-00071K-SL for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:15:34 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i94E5W998667; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:05:32 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i94E5Qe37695; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:05:27 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200410041405.i94E5Qe37695@merlot.juniper.net> To: Loa Andersson In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:46:04 +0200." <415C000C.9050302@pi.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <54942.1096898726.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 07:05:26 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ea4ac80f790299f943f0a53be7e1a21a Cc: L2VPN , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5ba305d0e64821bf3d8bc5d3bb07228 Loa, Rick, and Vach, > Working group, > > this mail is to initiate a working group last call > on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. > > Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and > to the working co-chairs. > > The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. Section 8.3 ("Multi-domain VPLS service") is pretty much the same as in the previous version of the draft. Specifically, the draft still does not say whether the scheme described in the draft provides redundant inter-domain connectivity, and if yes, then how it is achieved (e.g., election of border PE, and protocol between PEs within one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). So, to address this I'd like to propose that the following text be added to 8.3: This document assumes that in the multi-domain VPLS service scenario for each VPLS spanning multiple domains there would be one and only one border PE-rs per domain per VPLS instance, and has no provision for supporting redundant PE-rs. Therefore, failure of this PE-rs would result in the disruption of VPLS service across domains for all the VPLSs served by that PE-rs. Yakov. From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 4 10:18:59 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08367 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:18:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CETpA-0001PW-Fn for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:28:25 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CETZ6-00078z-A1; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:11:48 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CETXP-0006Tw-9g for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:10:03 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA07310 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 10:10:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net ([207.17.137.57]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CETgV-0008Ar-4j for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 10:19:27 -0400 Received: from merlot.juniper.net (merlot.juniper.net [172.17.27.10]) by colo-dns-ext1.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id i94E9T998691; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:09:29 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by merlot.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id i94E9Oe38057; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 07:09:24 -0700 (PDT) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-Id: <200410041409.i94E9Oe38057@merlot.juniper.net> To: Loa Andersson In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 30 Sep 2004 14:46:04 +0200." <415C000C.9050302@pi.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <55229.1096898964.1@juniper.net> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 07:09:24 -0700 From: Yakov Rekhter X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7d33c50f3756db14428398e2bdedd581 Cc: L2VPN , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 798b2e660f1819ae38035ac1d8d5e3ab Loa, Rick and Vach > Working group, > > this mail is to initiate a working group last call > on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. > > Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and > to the working co-chairs. > > The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. > > Loa, Rick and Vach The document references draft that expired a while ago - "Discovering Nodes and Services in a VPLS Network", draft-stokes-ppvpn-vpls-discover-00.txt. Therefore I would suggest to remove any references to that draft from the document. Yakov. From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 4 11:43:18 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA14984 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:43:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEV8o-0002Hs-MX for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:52:46 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CEUuU-0004vB-Ow; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:37:58 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CEUqY-0004PA-VY for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:33:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA14519 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 11:33:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oberon.imc.kth.se ([193.10.152.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEUze-0001gW-9s for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 11:43:19 -0400 Received: from mail1.imc.kth.se (mail1.imc.kth.se [193.10.152.140]) by oberon.imc.kth.se (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i94FUBr06446 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 17:30:11 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([172.16.2.190]) by mail1.imc.kth.se; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:32:11 +0200 Message-ID: <41616CF5.8080906@pi.se> Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:32:05 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 CC: L2VPN References: <415C1573.4090406@pi.se> In-Reply-To: <415C1573.4090406@pi.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: b19722fc8d3865b147c75ae2495625f2 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-02.txt - wg last call X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 97adf591118a232206bdb5a27b217034 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Please note that the latest version is draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-02.txt /Loa Loa Andersson wrote: > Working group, > > this is to issue a one week working group last > call on draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-01.txt, > this draft has been through an earlier wg last > call with very few comments. > > We are ready to request publication, but would > like to give the working an opportunity to give > comments, mainly because the draft have been > around for som time. > > The last call ends on October 8th eob PST. > > > Loa, Rick Vach > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 4 16:55:40 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20725 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:55:40 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEa19-000531-4o for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:05:11 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CEZ2H-0007RV-28; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:02:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CEYmQ-0008Fh-AH; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:45:54 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08727; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:45:52 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410041945.PAA08727@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:45:52 -0400 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: cf3becbbd6d1a45acbe2ffd4ab88bdc2 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : ARP Mediation for IP Interworking of Layer 2 VPN Author(s) : H. Shah, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt Pages : 14 Date : 2004-10-4 The VPWS service [L2VPN Framework] provides point-to-point connections between pairs of Customer Edge (CE) devices. It does so by binding two Attachment Circuits (each connecting a CE device with a Provider Edge, PE, device) to a Pseudowire (connecting the two PEs). In general, the Attachment Circuits must be of the same technology (e.g., both ethernet, both ATM), and the Pseudowire must carry the frames of that technology. However, if it is known that the frames' payload consists solely of IP datagrams, it is possible to provide a point-to-point connection in which the Pseudowire draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt connects Attachment Circuits of different technologies. This requires the PEs to perform a function known as "ARP Mediation". This document specifies the ARP Mediation function, and specifies the encapsulation used to carry the IP datagrams on the Pseudowires when ARP mediation is used. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-4152642.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-4152642.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Oct 4 16:56:20 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA20820 for ; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 16:56:20 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEa1m-000546-ND for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 17:05:50 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CEZ2H-0007SX-Lc; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 16:02:17 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CEYmU-0008Fm-9a; Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:45:58 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA08736; Mon, 4 Oct 2004 15:45:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410041945.PAA08736@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Mon, 04 Oct 2004 15:45:56 -0400 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8de5f93cb2b4e3bee75302e9eacc33db --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : IP-Only LAN Service (IPLS) Author(s) : H. Shah, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt Pages : 18 Date : 2004-10-4 A Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) [VPLS] is used to interconnect systems across a wide-area or metropolitan-area network, making it appear to those systems as if they are interconnected on a private LAN. The systems which are interconnected in this way may themselves be LAN switches. If, however, the interconnected systems are NOT LAN switches, but rather are IP hosts or IP routers, certain simplifications are possible. We call this simplified type of virtual private LAN service an ?Ip-only LAN Service? (IPLS). In IPLS, as in VPLS, LAN interfaces are run in promiscuous mode, and frames are forwarded based on their MAC Destination Addresses. However, the maintenance of the MAC forwarding tables is done via signaling, rather than via the ?MAC Address Learning? procedures of IEEE 802.1D. Further, Address Resolution Protocol (ARP) messages are proxied, rather than being carried transparently. This draft specifies the protocols and procedures for support of the IPLS service. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-4152648.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-4152648.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 5 05:52:46 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08873 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 05:52:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEm9F-00033f-Qk for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 06:02:22 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CElyQ-00027M-NZ; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:51:10 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CElub-0001MB-2C for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:47:13 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id FAA08379 for ; Tue, 5 Oct 2004 05:47:10 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta0.huawei.com ([61.144.161.41] helo=huawei.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CEm3l-0001vi-2M for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 05:56:47 -0400 Received: from d07358 (mta1.huawei.com [172.17.1.60]) by mta1.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I5300M5CTFAPI@mta1.huawei.com> for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:09:10 +0800 (CST) Date: Tue, 05 Oct 2004 17:24:05 +0800 From: Du Wenhua To: Loa Andersson , L2VPN Message-id: <0I5300M5ETFAPI@mta1.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Techlonogies, Co., Ltd MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Foxmail 4.2 [cn] Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="Boundary_(ID_ASPFwQaYhg8LG0/prHxdmA)" X-imss-version: 2.7 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@huawei.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 27ec2ff0f5c3b18b49c722f4f1748838 Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: duwh@huawei.com List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bfe538a859d88717fa3c8a6377d62f90 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_ASPFwQaYhg8LG0/prHxdmA) Content-type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Loa, Rick and Vach My comment: When non-bridging device use Q-in-Q as spoke VC, the PE-rs needs map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance, not only "one to= one". In "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging devices", the draft= gives only the example of LSP tunnel as spoke VC. But, when the= non-bridge device chooses Q-in-Q as spoke VC. The PE-rs need map many P-VLAN= to one VPLS instance. This "many to one" scenario conflicts with the sentence in= chapter "9. Hierarchical VPLS model using Ethernet Access Network":= "Therefore, there is a one to one correspondence between a P-VLAN and a VPLS instance." In the flowing example, both CE-1, CE-2 and CE-3 belongs to one= VPLS instance. So PE1-rs map PVLAN-101 and PVLAN-102 to one VPLS= instance. Figure 1: non-bridge device use Q-in-Q as spoke vc = PE2-rs ------ / = \ | -- = | | / \ = | CE-1 | \B / = | \ \ -- = / \ MTU-r(non-bridging) /------ \ PE-r(non-bridging) PE1-rs / | \ ------ ------ / | / \ / \ / | = | \ | PVLAN-101 | -- |---/ | | ------|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | | -----|- - - - - - - - - - - |--\B / | | \ / / PVLAN-102 \ -- / ---\ | ------ ------ \ | / \ | ---- \------ | Agg| / \ = ---- | -- = | / \ | / \ = | CE-2 CE-3 | \B / = | \ -- / ------ PE3-rs Give an example of non-bridging device: IP-DSLAM In the past, DSLAM have ATM uplink port. One ADSL CE have at= least one ATM PVC on the uplink port. When a CE belongs to one VPLS, it= use RFC1483B PVC. Different ADSL CEs use different RFC1483B PVCs, no= mater they belong to one VPLS or not. At recently, many carrier move to IP-DSLAM, which replaces ATM= uplink port with Ethernet uplink port. Many of these IP-DSLAMs just= have Ethernet uplink port, but have no bridging function. In these IP-DSLAMs, one ADSL CE map to one P-VLAN (use Q-in-Q technologies, because maybe the CE have VLAN tag already) on the Ethernet unplink port. Different ADSL CEs map to different P-VLAN tags, no mater they= belong to one VPLS or not. Since IP-DSLAM has no bridging function, it can= not map many CEs to one P-VLAN. So, the PE-rs needs to map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance. IP-DSLAM have Ethernet uplink port. The device just map one DSL= to one VLAN, as the same way to map one DSL CE site to one 1483 PVC, have no bridging function. Figure 2: IP-DSLAM with Ethernet uplink port CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) \ \ \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) \ ------ / \ | \ | PVLAN-101 | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (Ethernet uplink port) | -----|- - - - - - - - - - \ / / PVLAN-102 ------ / / / CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) Figure 3: DSLAM with ATM uplink port CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) \ \ \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) \ ------ / \ | \ | PVC-101 RFC1483B | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (ATM uplink Port) | -----|- - - - - - - - - - \ / / PVC-102 RFC1483B ------ / / / CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) Yours =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1Du Wenhua =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A12004-10-05 >-----Original Message----- >From: Loa Andersson >Sent: 14:46:00,2004-09-30 >To: L2VPN >Subject: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt >Working group, > >this mail is to initiate a working group last call >on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. > >Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and >to the working co-chairs. > >The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. > >Loa, Rick and Vach > > >-- >Loa Andersson > >Principal Networking Architect >Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 >Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 >Kista, Sweden email: = loa.andersson@acreo.se > loa@pi.se =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D --Boundary_(ID_ASPFwQaYhg8LG0/prHxdmA) Content-type: application/octet-stream; name="many P-VLANs map to 1 VPLS.txt" Content-disposition: attachment; filename="many P-VLANs map to 1 VPLS.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 TXkgY29tbWVudHM6IFdoZW4gbm9uLWJyaWRnaW5nIGRldmljZSB1c2UgUS1pbi1RIGFzIHNwb2tl IFZDLCB0aGUgUEUtcnMNCm5lZWRzIG1hcCBtYW55IFAtVkxBTiB0byBvbmUgVlBMUyBpbnN0YW5j ZSwgbm90IG9ubHkgIm9uZSB0byBvbmUiLg0KDQpJbiAiOC4xLjMgU3Bva2UgY29ubmVjdGl2aXR5 IGZvciBub24tYnJpZGdpbmcgZGV2aWNlcyIsIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBnaXZlcw0Kb25seSB0aGUgZXhh bXBsZSBvZiBMU1AgdHVubmVsIGFzIHNwb2tlIFZDLiBCdXQsIHdoZW4gdGhlIG5vbi1icmlkZ2UN 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ICAgICAgIC8NCiAgICAgICAvDQogICAgIENFLTIoQURTTCBQVkMgMikgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgIA0K --Boundary_(ID_ASPFwQaYhg8LG0/prHxdmA)-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 6 11:06:42 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05247 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:06:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFDWd-0000M3-Uj for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:16:35 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFDM8-0007lW-O6; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:05:28 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFDKT-0007KE-6k for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:03:45 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04930 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:03:41 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.113.148.10] (helo=riverstonenet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFDTk-0000Ca-SF for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:13:34 -0400 Received: from lasserretplxp by riverstonenet.com (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4-Yago) id HAA16987; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:57:16 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0fe001c4abb4$c6437870$6501a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> From: "Marc Lasserre" To: "Loa Andersson" , "Yakov Rekhter" References: <200410041405.i94E5Qe37695@merlot.juniper.net> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:57:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: L2VPN , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yakov, I will mention that redundant inter-domain connectivity is not described in this document. A new draft describing how redundant border PEs will actually be submitted by the Oct 18 deadline. Thanks, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakov Rekhter" To: "Loa Andersson" Cc: "L2VPN" ; "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin" Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 4:05 PM Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > Loa, Rick, and Vach, > >> Working group, >> >> this mail is to initiate a working group last call >> on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. >> >> Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and >> to the working co-chairs. >> >> The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. > > Section 8.3 ("Multi-domain VPLS service") is pretty much the same > as in the previous version of the draft. Specifically, the draft > still does not say whether the scheme described in the draft provides > redundant inter-domain connectivity, and if yes, then how it is > achieved (e.g., election of border PE, and protocol between PEs > within one domain to indicate loss of connectivity). > > So, to address this I'd like to propose that the following text be > added to 8.3: > > This document assumes that in the multi-domain VPLS service > scenario for each VPLS spanning multiple domains there would be > one and only one border PE-rs per domain per VPLS instance, and > has no provision for supporting redundant PE-rs. Therefore, > failure of this PE-rs would result in the disruption of VPLS > service across domains for all the VPLSs served by that PE-rs. > > Yakov. > > From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 6 11:10:06 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05491 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:10:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFDZv-0000Ra-UE for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:19:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFDOQ-0008Io-RB; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:07:50 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFDMY-0007uR-TH for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:05:54 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05146 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:05:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.113.148.10] (helo=riverstonenet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFDVo-0000HG-Qs for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:15:45 -0400 Received: from lasserretplxp by riverstonenet.com (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4-Yago) id HAA17148; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 07:59:26 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0feb01c4abb5$137ac620$6501a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> From: "Marc Lasserre" To: "Loa Andersson" , "Yakov Rekhter" References: <200410041409.i94E9Oe38057@merlot.juniper.net> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 16:59:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: L2VPN , Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e1e48a527f609d1be2bc8d8a70eb76cb Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Yakov, The reference to this draft will be removed. Thanks, Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yakov Rekhter" To: "Loa Andersson" Cc: "L2VPN" ; "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin" Sent: Monday, October 04, 2004 4:09 PM Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > Loa, Rick and Vach > >> Working group, >> >> this mail is to initiate a working group last call >> on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. >> >> Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and >> to the working co-chairs. >> >> The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. >> >> Loa, Rick and Vach > > The document references draft that expired a while ago - "Discovering > Nodes and Services in a VPLS Network", > draft-stokes-ppvpn-vpls-discover-00.txt. > > Therefore I would suggest to remove any references to that draft from > the document. > > Yakov. > > From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 6 12:02:58 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA09051 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 12:02:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFEP6-0003z1-Gf for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:12:51 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFECG-0000wT-HS; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:59:20 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFE5J-0007vL-54 for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 11:52:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA08439 for ; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 11:52:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [63.113.148.10] (helo=riverstonenet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFEEX-0003Bc-99 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 06 Oct 2004 12:01:56 -0400 Received: from lasserretplxp by riverstonenet.com (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4-Yago) id IAA23265; Wed, 6 Oct 2004 08:46:49 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <101e01c4abbb$b1c99a30$6501a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> From: "Marc Lasserre" To: , "Loa Andersson" , "L2VPN" References: <0I5300M5ETFAPI@mta1.huawei.com> Date: Wed, 6 Oct 2004 17:46:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="GB2312"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by riverstonenet.com id IAA23265 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ee80a2074afbfe28d15369f4e74e579d Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 0cff8c3ec906d056784362c06f5f88c1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Du, Section 8.1.3 describes how a router (PE-r) that does not support VPLS bridging functions can participate in the VPLS service. PE-r devices do n= ot have the ability to add P-VLAN tags (this is a provider bridge function), and hence must use PWs on a per physical port basis. A P-VLAN as defined in the IEEE 802.1ad represents a unique customer doma= in within the provider network, which is mapped to a unique VSI. In your DSL= AM example, P-VLANs are used as circuit identifiers instead. The ability for PE-rs devices to be able to treat such P-VLANs as virtual ports in order = to make them part of the same VPLS domain would be implementation specific. Thanks, Marc ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Du Wenhua" To: "Loa Andersson" ; "L2VPN" Cc: "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin" Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:24 AM Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt Loa, Rick and Vach My comment: When non-bridging device use Q-in-Q as spoke VC, the PE-rs needs map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance, not only "one to one". In "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging devices", the draft gives only the example of LSP tunnel as spoke VC. But, when the non-bridge device chooses Q-in-Q as spoke VC. The PE-rs need map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance. This "many to one" scenario conflicts with the sentence in chapter "9. Hierarchical VPLS model using Ethernet Access Network": "Therefore, there is a one to one correspondence between a P-VLAN and a VPLS instance." In the flowing example, both CE-1, CE-2 and CE-3 belongs to one VPLS instance. So PE1-rs map PVLAN-101 and PVLAN-102 to one VPLS instance. Figure 1: non-bridge device use Q-in-Q as spoke vc PE2-rs ------ / \ | -- | | / \ | CE-1 | \B / | \ \ -- / \ MTU-r(non-bridging) /------ \ PE-r(non-bridging) PE1-rs / | \ ------ ------ / | / \ / \ / | | \ | PVLAN-101 | -- |---/ | | ------|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | | -----|- - - - - - - - - - - |--\B / | | \ / / PVLAN-102 \ -- / ---\ | ------ ------ \ | / \ | ---- \------ | Agg| / \ ---- | -- | / \ | / \ | CE-2 CE-3 | \B / | \ -- / ------=20 PE3-rs Give an example of non-bridging device: IP-DSLAM In the past, DSLAM have ATM uplink port. One ADSL CE have at least one ATM PVC on the uplink port. When a CE belongs to one VPLS, it use RFC1483B PVC. Different ADSL CEs use different RFC1483B PVCs, no mater they belong to one VPLS or not. At recently, many carrier move to IP-DSLAM, which replaces ATM uplink port with Ethernet uplink port. Many of these IP-DSLAMs just have Ethernet uplink port, but have no bridging function. In these IP-DSLAMs, one ADSL CE map to one P-VLAN (use Q-in-Q technologies, because maybe the CE have VLAN tag already) on the Ethernet unplink port. Different ADSL CEs map to different P-VLAN tags, no mater they belong to one VPLS or not. Since IP-DSLAM has no bridging function, it can not map many CEs to one P-VLAN. So, the PE-rs needs to map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance. IP-DSLAM have Ethernet uplink port. The device just map one DSL to one VLAN, as the same way to map one DSL CE site to one 1483 PVC, have no bridging function. Figure 2: IP-DSLAM with Ethernet uplink port CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) \ \ \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) \ ------ / \ | \ | PVLAN-101 | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (Ethernet uplink port) | -----|- - - - - - - - - - \ / / PVLAN-102 ------ / / / CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) Figure 3: DSLAM with ATM uplink port CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) \ \ \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) \ ------ / \ | \ | PVC-101 RFC1483B | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (ATM uplink Port) | -----|- - - - - - - - - - \ / / PVC-102 RFC1483B ------ / / / CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) Yours =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1Du Wenhua =A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A12004-10-05 >-----Original Message----- >From: Loa Andersson >Sent: 14:46:00,2004-09-30 >To: L2VPN >Subject: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt >Working group, > >this mail is to initiate a working group last call >on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. > >Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and >to the working co-chairs. > >The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. > >Loa, Rick and Vach > > >--=20 >Loa Andersson > >Principal Networking Architect >Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 >Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 >Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > loa@pi.se =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D= =3D From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 7 12:49:52 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03829 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:49:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFbcU-0000Xn-7C for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:59:59 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFbQQ-0006VB-Go; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:47:30 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFbGX-0004lc-NA for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:37:18 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA03097 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 12:37:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from oberon.imc.kth.se ([193.10.152.20]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFbQH-0008LM-3G for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 12:47:21 -0400 Received: from mail1.imc.kth.se (mail1.imc.kth.se [193.10.152.140]) by oberon.imc.kth.se (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id i97GXMr06491 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 18:33:22 +0200 Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([172.16.2.190]) by mail1.imc.kth.se; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:35:17 +0200 Message-ID: <41657037.4060801@pi.se> Date: Thu, 07 Oct 2004 18:35:03 +0200 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040803 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Dinesh Mohan References: <183DD1B052A11A40B76125E42F1CBAAB016968AF@zcarhxm1.corp.nortel.com> In-Reply-To: <183DD1B052A11A40B76125E42F1CBAAB016968AF@zcarhxm1.corp.nortel.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 082a9cbf4d599f360ac7f815372a6a15 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "'Per Ole Klemetsrud'" , "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" , "'Ali Sajassi'" Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e8a67952aa972b528dd04570d58ad8fe Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Dinesh, since you are keeping the technology of the PE to PE network open, you should also look into if there are issuses with the IPLS and the RADIUS based VPLS. /Loa Dinesh Mohan wrote: > Per Ole, > > Thank you for your review of the draft. Reference to VPLS-BGP will be > added in the next version, along with other things pointed out during > the 2-week WG call on the mailing list. The omission was unintentional > as pointed out by Ali. > > Regards, > Dinesh > -----Original Message----- > From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Ali Sajassi > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:07 PM > To: Per Ole Klemetsrud; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt > > At 11:22 PM 9/20/2004 +0200, Per Ole Klemetsrud wrote: > >Why references to VPLS-LDP in this framework? My employer (service > >provider) has deployed BGP signaled VPLS with great success, and although > >many vendors have their (non technical) reasons for implementing > VPLS-LDP, > >I see no reason to limit the scope of documents such as these to only > VPLS-LDP. > > The references to VPLS-LDP was given to illustrate that an end-to-end > service can span across different network types - e.g, mixture of .1ad and > mpls which is discussed in section 12 of that draft. However, the OAM > requirements and framework shall be applied to any type of VPLS regardless > of what type of signaling approach is used to setup the PWs. > > -Ali > > > >If there IS a technical reason for this draft to reference VPLS-LDP, I > >must have missed it, and a clarification would be welcome. > > > >Regards, > >Per Ole Klemetsrud > > > > > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 7 14:25:02 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA08846 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 14:21:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFcRn-00047f-Td for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:53:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFcF9-0000bL-4z; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:39:55 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFc4g-0006Zc-1L for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:29:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id NAA06936 for ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:29:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from zrtps0kp.nortelnetworks.com ([47.140.192.56]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFcEQ-0003C6-7Z for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 07 Oct 2004 13:39:10 -0400 Received: from zrtpd0j7.us.nortel.com (zrtpd0j7.us.nortel.com [47.140.203.25]) by zrtps0kp.nortelnetworks.com (Switch-2.2.6/Switch-2.2.0) with ESMTP id i97HSTI12661; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:28:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by zrtpd0j7.us.nortel.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:28:29 -0400 Message-ID: <183DD1B052A11A40B76125E42F1CBAAB0169690D@zcarhxm1.corp.nortel.com> From: "Dinesh Mohan" To: "'Loa Andersson'" Date: Thu, 7 Oct 2004 13:28:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C4AC91.E12F061C" X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 72dbfff5c6b8ad2b1b727c13be042129 Cc: "'Per Ole Klemetsrud'" , "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" , "'Ali Sajassi'" Subject: RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.8 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7698d1420ecbbce1995432e99bb6d1a1 This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4AC91.E12F061C Content-Type: text/plain Loa, >From a framework and requirements point of view, I believe that it should be applicable to IPLS and VPLS-RADIUS. We can add the above references in update intended for this meeting. Regards, Dinesh -----Original Message----- From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:35 PM To: Mohan, Dinesh [CAR:1A11:EXCH] Cc: 'Per Ole Klemetsrud'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org'; 'Ali Sajassi' Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt Dinesh, since you are keeping the technology of the PE to PE network open, you should also look into if there are issuses with the IPLS and the RADIUS based VPLS. /Loa Dinesh Mohan wrote: > Per Ole, > > Thank you for your review of the draft. Reference to VPLS-BGP will be > added in the next version, along with other things pointed out during > the 2-week WG call on the mailing list. The omission was unintentional > as pointed out by Ali. > > Regards, > Dinesh > -----Original Message----- > From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Ali Sajassi > Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:07 PM > To: Per Ole Klemetsrud; Internet-Drafts@ietf.org > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt > > At 11:22 PM 9/20/2004 +0200, Per Ole Klemetsrud wrote: > >Why references to VPLS-LDP in this framework? My employer (service > >provider) has deployed BGP signaled VPLS with great success, and although > >many vendors have their (non technical) reasons for implementing > VPLS-LDP, > >I see no reason to limit the scope of documents such as these to only > VPLS-LDP. > > The references to VPLS-LDP was given to illustrate that an end-to-end > service can span across different network types - e.g, mixture of .1ad and > mpls which is discussed in section 12 of that draft. However, the OAM > requirements and framework shall be applied to any type of VPLS regardless > of what type of signaling approach is used to setup the PWs. > > -Ali > > > >If there IS a technical reason for this draft to reference VPLS-LDP, I > >must have missed it, and a clarification would be welcome. > > > >Regards, > >Per Ole Klemetsrud > > > > > -- Loa Andersson Principal Networking Architect Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se loa@pi.se ------_=_NextPart_001_01C4AC91.E12F061C Content-Type: text/html Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt

Loa,

From a framework and requirements point of view, I = believe that it should be applicable to IPLS and VPLS-RADIUS.

We can add the above references in update intended = for this meeting.

Regards,
Dinesh
-----Original Message-----
From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se]
Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 12:35 PM
To: Mohan, Dinesh [CAR:1A11:EXCH]
Cc: 'Per Ole Klemetsrud'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org'; 'Ali = Sajassi'
Subject: Re: I-D = ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt

Dinesh,

since you are keeping the technology of the PE to = PE
network open, you should also look into if there = are
issuses with the IPLS and the RADIUS based = VPLS.

/Loa

Dinesh Mohan wrote:

> Per Ole,
>
> Thank you for your review of the draft. = Reference to VPLS-BGP will be
> added in the next version, along with other = things pointed out during
> the 2-week WG call on the mailing list. The = omission was unintentional
> as pointed out by Ali.
>
> Regards,
> Dinesh
> -----Original Message-----
> From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org= ] On Behalf
> Of Ali Sajassi
> Sent: Tuesday, September 21, 2004 6:07 = PM
> To: Per Ole Klemetsrud; = Internet-Drafts@ietf.org
> Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: I-D = ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-00.txt
>
> At 11:22 PM 9/20/2004 +0200, Per Ole Klemetsrud = wrote:
>  >Why references to VPLS-LDP in this = framework?  My employer (service
>  >provider) has deployed BGP signaled = VPLS with great success, and although
>  >many vendors have their (non = technical) reasons for implementing
> VPLS-LDP,
>  >I see no reason to limit the scope of = documents such as these to only
> VPLS-LDP.
>
> The references to VPLS-LDP was given to = illustrate that an end-to-end
> service can span across different network = types  - e.g, mixture of .1ad and
> mpls which is discussed in section 12 of that = draft. However, the OAM
> requirements and framework shall be applied to = any type of VPLS regardless
> of what type of signaling approach is used to = setup the PWs.
>
> -Ali
>
>
>  >If there IS a technical reason for = this draft to reference VPLS-LDP, I
>  >must have missed it, and a = clarification would be welcome.
>  >
>  >Regards,
>  >Per Ole Klemetsrud
>  >
>
>
>

--
Loa Andersson

Principal Networking Architect
Acreo = AB           &nbs= p;           &nbs= p;   phone:  +46 8 632 77 14
Isafjordsgatan = 22           &nbs= p;      mobile: +46 739 81 21 64
Kista, = Sweden           =            = email:  loa.andersson@acreo.se
          &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;           &nb= sp;         loa@pi.se

------_=_NextPart_001_01C4AC91.E12F061C-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 8 08:42:21 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA20151 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:42:21 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFuEf-0005oX-Mq for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:52:38 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFu3j-00021k-OA; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:41:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFu1R-0001mm-Og for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:38:57 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA19970 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:38:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta1.huawei.com ([61.144.161.40] helo=huawei.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFuB7-0005js-FV for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 08:49:12 -0400 Received: from d07358 (huawei.com [172.17.1.62]) by mta0.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I5900MFIN0H5O@mta0.huawei.com> for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:36:17 +0800 (CST) Date: Fri, 08 Oct 2004 20:39:40 +0800 From: Du Wenhua To: Marc Lasserre , Loa Andersson , L2VPN Message-id: <0I5900MFJN0H5O@mta0.huawei.com> Organization: Huawei Techlonogies, Co., Ltd MIME-version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Foxmail 4.2 [cn] Content-type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-imss-version: 2.7 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@huawei.com X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a4e5f67c5e230eddf754446d1a2201a4 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: duwh@huawei.com List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.1 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 8cb9b411340046bf4080a729180a0672 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi,Marc Lasserre, Thanks for your reply. See my comments bellow. >To: duwh >Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt >Du, > >Section 8.1.3 describes how a router (PE-r) that does not= support VPLS >bridging functions can participate in the VPLS service. But why only describes a router? Why not describes a non-bridging= MTU? It is not enough to only describe a route in this chapter. The title is "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging= _devices_". "Devices" includes router, MTU(such as example of the DSLAM).... >PE-r devices do not >have the ability to add P-VLAN tags (this is a provider bridge= function), >and hence must use PWs on a per physical port basis. Not true. [PWE3-ETHERNET] defines the function of "stripping, overwriting= or adding VLAN tags". PE-r support [PWE3-ETHERNET], so PE-r have the= ability of add VLAN tag. Please notice that here the two ACs belong to a same PE-r, which= is defines in [draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-05.txt] 3.2.3. Forwarders: "The case in which PE1 and PE2 are the same device is an= important case to handle correctly" >A P-VLAN as defined in the IEEE 802.1ad represents a unique= customer domain >within the provider network, which is mapped to a unique VSI. >In your DSLAM >example, P-VLANs are used as circuit identifiers instead. True. Using P-VLANs as circuit identifiers is function of= [PWE3-ETHERNET]. Here the DSLAM works in the way of [PWE3-ETHERNET], forwarding= frames from one AC to another AC. One VC is RFC1483B PVC, another AC is= Ethernet VLAN. >The ability for >PE-rs devices to be able to treat such P-VLANs as virtual ports= in order to >make them part of the same VPLS domain would be implementation= specific. I think it is not "implementation specific", it is better to= write the function of PE-rs in the this draft= . RFC should guarantee the cooperation of different devices from= different companies. If, a customer buys a DSLAM from me and buys a PE-rs from you, The DSLAM support [PWE3-ETHERNET], maps two DSL 1483B PVC to two= V-LANs. The PE-rs supports [VPLS-LDP], maps one P-VLAN to one VPLS. What will happen if the two DSL PVCs belong to one VPLS? It does= not work, because the PE-r can not map two P-VLANs to one VPLS and= the DSLAM is non-bridging. How to solve this issue of cooperation? I think [VPLS-LDP] need= add a function to PE-rs in "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging= devices": "treat such P-VLANs as virtual ports and o make them part of the= same VPLS domain". > >Thanks, >Marc > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Du Wenhua" >To: "Loa Andersson" ; "L2VPN" >Cc: "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin"= >Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:24 AM >Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > > >Loa, Rick and Vach > >My comment: > When non-bridging device use Q-in-Q as spoke VC, the PE-rs >needs map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance, not only "one to= one". > >In "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging devices", the= draft gives >only the example of LSP tunnel as spoke VC. But, when the= non-bridge >device chooses Q-in-Q as spoke VC. The PE-rs need map many= P-VLAN to >one VPLS instance. >This "many to one" scenario conflicts with the sentence in= chapter "9. >Hierarchical VPLS model using Ethernet Access Network":= "Therefore, >there is a one to one correspondence between a P-VLAN and a= VPLS >instance." > >In the flowing example, both CE-1, CE-2 and CE-3 belongs to one= VPLS >instance. So PE1-rs map PVLAN-101 and PVLAN-102 to one VPLS= instance. > >Figure 1: non-bridge device use Q-in-Q as spoke vc > = PE2-rs > = ------ > / = \ > | -- = | > | / \ = | > CE-1 | \B / = | > \ \ -- = / > \ MTU-r(non-bridging) = /------ > \ PE-r(non-bridging) PE1-rs / | > \ ------ ------ / | > / \ / \ / | > | \ | PVLAN-101 | -- |---/ | > | ------|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | > | -----|- - - - - - - - - - - |--\B / | | > \ / / PVLAN-102 \ -- / ---\ | > ------ ------ \ | > / \ | > ---- \------ > | Agg| / = \ > ---- | -- = | > / \ | / \ = | > CE-2 CE-3 | \B / = | > \ -- = / > ------= > PE3-rs > > >Give an example of non-bridging device: IP-DSLAM > >In the past, DSLAM have ATM uplink port. One ADSL CE have at= least one >ATM PVC on the uplink port. When a CE belongs to one VPLS, it= use >RFC1483B PVC. Different ADSL CEs use different RFC1483B PVCs, no= mater >they belong to one VPLS or not. > >At recently, many carrier move to IP-DSLAM, which replaces ATM= uplink >port with Ethernet uplink port. Many of these IP-DSLAMs just= have >Ethernet >uplink port, but have no bridging function. >In these IP-DSLAMs, one ADSL CE map to one P-VLAN (use Q-in-Q >technologies, because maybe the CE have VLAN tag already) on= the >Ethernet unplink port. >Different ADSL CEs map to different P-VLAN tags, no mater they= belong to >one VPLS or not. Since IP-DSLAM has no bridging function, it can= not map >many CEs to one P-VLAN. >So, the PE-rs needs to map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance. > > > >IP-DSLAM have Ethernet uplink port. The device just map one DSL= to one >VLAN, as the same way to map one DSL CE site to one 1483 PVC, >have no bridging function. > >Figure 2: IP-DSLAM with Ethernet uplink port > CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) > \ > \ > \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) > \ ------ > / \ > | \ | PVLAN-101 > | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (Ethernet uplink port) > | -----|- - - - - - - - - - > \ / / PVLAN-102 > ------ > / > / > / > CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) > > >Figure 3: DSLAM with ATM uplink port > CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) > \ > \ > \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) > \ ------ > / \ > | \ | PVC-101 RFC1483B > | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (ATM uplink Port) > | -----|- - - - - - - - - - > \ / / PVC-102 RFC1483B > ------ > / > / > / > CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) > > > > >Yours >=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1Du Wenhua >=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A12004-10-05 > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Loa Andersson >>Sent: 14:46:00,2004-09-30 >>To: L2VPN >>Subject: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > >>Working group, >> >>this mail is to initiate a working group last call >>on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. >> >>Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and >>to the working co-chairs. >> >>The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. >> >>Loa, Rick and Vach >> >> >>-- >>Loa Andersson >> >>Principal Networking Architect >>Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 >>Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 >>Kista, Sweden email: = loa.andersson@acreo.se >> loa@pi.se >=3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 8 11:36:15 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA05150 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:36:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFwwz-0001J3-MX for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:46:34 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFwhj-0000PD-Ih; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:30:47 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFwcd-0007pM-CU for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:25:32 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id LAA04008 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:25:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.riverstonenet.com ([63.113.148.10] helo=riverstonenet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFwmZ-0000zf-NK for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 11:35:48 -0400 Received: from lasserretplxp by riverstonenet.com (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4-Yago) id IAA29417; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 08:24:46 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <11f901c4ad4a$f3860bd0$6501a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> From: "Marc Lasserre" To: , "Loa Andersson" , "L2VPN" References: <0I5900MFJN0H5O@mta0.huawei.com> Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 17:24:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="GB2312"; reply-type=original X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by riverstonenet.com id IAA29417 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: e5bfa71b340354e384155def5e70b13b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5fb88b8381f3896aeacc5a021513237b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Du, See my answers inline. Thanks, Marc >To: duwh >Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt >Du, > >Section 8.1.3 describes how a router (PE-r) that does not support VPLS >bridging functions can participate in the VPLS service. But why only describes a router? Why not describes a non-bridging MTU? It is not enough to only describe a route in this chapter. The title is "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging _devices_". "Devices" includes router, MTU(such as example of the DSLAM).... [Marc] MTU devices are defined as bridging capable in the draft, PE-r=20 devices as not bridging capable. The case you describe is neither a switc= h=20 nor a router, but simply a cross-connect device, but still falls into the= =20 PE-r case from a logical standpoint, except that it uses P-VLAN tags as=20 demultiplexors instead of PWs. >PE-r devices do not >have the ability to add P-VLAN tags (this is a provider bridge function)= , >and hence must use PWs on a per physical port basis. Not true. [PWE3-ETHERNET] defines the function of "stripping, overwriting or adding VLAN tags". PE-r support [PWE3-ETHERNET], so PE-r have the ability of add VLAN tag. [Marc] The behavior defined in [PWE3-ETHERNET] applies to 802.1Q VLAN tag= s=20 not to 802.1ad Provider VLAN tags. Please notice that here the two ACs belong to a same PE-r, which is defin= es in [draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-05.txt] 3.2.3. Forwarders: "The case in which PE1 and PE2 are the same device is an important case to handle correctly" [Marc] One-to-one mapping (simple cross-connect) does not require any=20 bridging support, but as soon as several ACs need to be part of the same=20 bridging domain, support for bridging is required: This can be done in=20 either a PE-rs or an MTU-s. If the "MTU" does not support bridging (as in= =20 your DSLAM example), it can be treated as a PE-r in which case bridging i= s=20 handled by the ingress PE-rs as mentioned earlier. >A P-VLAN as defined in the IEEE 802.1ad represents a unique customer dom= ain >within the provider network, which is mapped to a unique VSI. >In your DSLAM >example, P-VLANs are used as circuit identifiers instead. True. Using P-VLANs as circuit identifiers is function of [PWE3-ETHERNET]. Here the DSLAM works in the way of [PWE3-ETHERNET], forwarding frames from one AC to another AC. One VC is RFC1483B PVC, another AC is Ethernet VLAN. [Marc] The use of P-VLANs as circuit ids is not specified anywhere, which= is=20 why this case is not described. >The ability for >PE-rs devices to be able to treat such P-VLANs as virtual ports in order to >make them part of the same VPLS domain would be implementation specific. I think it is not "implementation specific", it is better to write the function of PE-rs in the this draft . RFC should guarantee the cooperation of different devices from different companies. If, a customer buys a DSLAM from me and buys a PE-rs from you, The DSLAM support [PWE3-ETHERNET], maps two DSL 1483B PVC to two V-LANs. The PE-rs supports [VPLS-LDP], maps one P-VLAN to one VPLS. What will happen if the two DSL PVCs belong to one VPLS? It does not work, because the PE-r can not map two P-VLANs to one VPLS and the DSLAM is non-bridging. How to solve this issue of cooperation? I think [VPLS-LDP] need add a [Marc] I do not have a problem saying in section 8.1.3 that "in the case=20 where PE-r use P-VLANs as demultiplexors instead of PWs, and PE-rs can tr= eat=20 them as such, PE-rs can map these "circuits" into a VPLS domain and provi= de=20 bridging support between them." function to PE-rs in "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging devices": "treat such P-VLANs as virtual ports and o make them part of the same VPLS domain". > >Thanks, >Marc > >----- Original Message -----=20 >From: "Du Wenhua" >To: "Loa Andersson" ; "L2VPN" >Cc: "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin" >Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 11:24 AM >Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > > >Loa, Rick and Vach > >My comment: > When non-bridging device use Q-in-Q as spoke VC, the PE-rs >needs map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance, not only "one to one". > >In "8.1.3 Spoke connectivity for non-bridging devices", the draft gives >only the example of LSP tunnel as spoke VC. But, when the non-bridge >device chooses Q-in-Q as spoke VC. The PE-rs need map many P-VLAN to >one VPLS instance. >This "many to one" scenario conflicts with the sentence in chapter "9. >Hierarchical VPLS model using Ethernet Access Network": "Therefore, >there is a one to one correspondence between a P-VLAN and a VPLS >instance." > >In the flowing example, both CE-1, CE-2 and CE-3 belongs to one VPLS >instance. So PE1-rs map PVLAN-101 and PVLAN-102 to one VPLS instance. > >Figure 1: non-bridge device use Q-in-Q as spoke vc > PE2-rs > ------ > / \ > | -- | > | / \ | > CE-1 | \B / | > \ \ -- / > \ MTU-r(non-bridging) /------ > \ PE-r(non-bridging) PE1-rs / | > \ ------ ------ / | > / \ / \ / | > | \ | PVLAN-101 | -- |---/ | > | ------|- - - - - - - - - - - |--/ \ | | > | -----|- - - - - - - - - - - |--\B / | | > \ / / PVLAN-102 \ -- / ---\ | > ------ ------ \ | > / \ | > ---- \------ > | Agg| / \ > ---- | -- | > / \ | / \ | > CE-2 CE-3 | \B / | > \ -- / > ------=20 > PE3-rs > > >Give an example of non-bridging device: IP-DSLAM > >In the past, DSLAM have ATM uplink port. One ADSL CE have at least one >ATM PVC on the uplink port. When a CE belongs to one VPLS, it use >RFC1483B PVC. Different ADSL CEs use different RFC1483B PVCs, no mater >they belong to one VPLS or not. > >At recently, many carrier move to IP-DSLAM, which replaces ATM uplink >port with Ethernet uplink port. Many of these IP-DSLAMs just have >Ethernet >uplink port, but have no bridging function. >In these IP-DSLAMs, one ADSL CE map to one P-VLAN (use Q-in-Q >technologies, because maybe the CE have VLAN tag already) on the >Ethernet unplink port. >Different ADSL CEs map to different P-VLAN tags, no mater they belong to >one VPLS or not. Since IP-DSLAM has no bridging function, it can not map >many CEs to one P-VLAN. >So, the PE-rs needs to map many P-VLAN to one VPLS instance. > > > >IP-DSLAM have Ethernet uplink port. The device just map one DSL to one >VLAN, as the same way to map one DSL CE site to one 1483 PVC, >have no bridging function. > >Figure 2: IP-DSLAM with Ethernet uplink port > CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) > \ > \ > \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) > \ ------ > / \ > | \ | PVLAN-101 > | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (Ethernet uplink port) > | -----|- - - - - - - - - - > \ / / PVLAN-102 > ------ > / > / > / > CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) > > >Figure 3: DSLAM with ATM uplink port > CE-1(ADSL PVC 1) > \ > \ > \ IP-DSLAM(non-bridging) > \ ------ > / \ > | \ | PVC-101 RFC1483B > | ------|- - - - - - - - - - (ATM uplink Port) > | -----|- - - - - - - - - - > \ / / PVC-102 RFC1483B > ------ > / > / > / > CE-2(ADSL PVC 2) > > > > >Yours >=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1Du Wenhua >=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A1=A12004-10-05 > > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Loa Andersson >>Sent: 14:46:00,2004-09-30 >>To: L2VPN >>Subject: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > >>Working group, >> >>this mail is to initiate a working group last call >>on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. >> >>Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and >>to the working co-chairs. >> >>The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. >> >>Loa, Rick and Vach >> >> >>--=20 >>Loa Andersson >> >>Principal Networking Architect >>Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 >>Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 >>Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se >> loa@pi.se >=3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D = =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D =3D= =3D From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 8 15:02:47 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA23951 for ; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 15:02:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CG0Ap-0006JY-7N for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 15:13:06 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFzr3-0001iP-FJ; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:52:37 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CFzge-0007lv-CZ; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:41:52 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id OAA20621; Fri, 8 Oct 2004 14:41:53 -0400 (EDT) Received: from [64.47.51.130] (helo=exchange.timetra.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CFzqU-0005cG-1P; Fri, 08 Oct 2004 14:52:12 -0400 Received: from vkompellaxp ([192.168.2.63] unverified) by exchange.timetra.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.6713); Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:41:05 -0700 From: "Vach Kompella" To: "'Luca Martini'" , "'Peter Willis'" , , Date: Fri, 8 Oct 2004 11:41:04 -0700 Organization: Alcatel USA Message-ID: <001c01c4ad66$60630cb0$3f02a8c0@eng.timetra.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook, Build 10.0.4024 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <4166D913.1080706@cisco.com> X-OriginalArrivalTime: 08 Oct 2004 18:41:05.0482 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E5FC2A0:01C4AD66] X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 2086112c730e13d5955355df27e3074b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [PWE3] RSVP-TE and PW X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: vach.kompella@alcatel.com List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 093efd19b5f651b2707595638f6c4003 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I agree with Luca. This seems to be in keeping with the charters of both pwe3 and l2vpn. -Vach=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: pwe3-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:pwe3-bounces@ietf.org] On=20 > Behalf Of Luca Martini > Sent: Friday, October 08, 2004 11:15 AM > To: Peter Willis > Cc: Thomas D. Nadeau; pwe3@ietf.org;=20 > Benny.Ammitzboell@tpack.net; neil.2.harrison@bt.com;=20 > erosen@cisco.com; stbryant@cisco.com > Subject: Re: [PWE3] RSVP-TE and PW >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > Peter Willis wrote: >=20 > >So in other words are we saying that to do anything useful with PW=20 > >stitching > >i.e. create a network, we need to go to the L2VPN WG?=20 > > > > =20 > > > yes. >=20 > Luca >=20 > >Is anything happening in the L2VPN WG to address PW stitching? > > > >Peter. > > =20 > > > >>Peter, > >> > >>I just want to add to Tom's comment , that I believe this is just a > >>starting point. Like PW where used to build VPLS, or MPLS=20 > to build GMPLS. > >>There should be nothing in the pw-switching draft=20 > preventing anyone from=20 > >>creating a new network layer if they wish. > >>PW switching connects wires with only only going to one fixed=20 > >>destination, which does not change. That would make a pretty boring=20 > >>phone network wouldn't it ? > >>:-) > >>Anyway I believe that the PW switching draft should be=20 > targeted as an=20 > >>informational RFC, as it does not really even create a new protocol. > >>Whether it is useful or not is a matter of personal opinion. > >> > >>Luca > >> > >> > >>Thomas D. Nadeau wrote: > >> > >> =20 > >> > >>> Peter, I don't think that is the point he was > >>>making, at least not as I understood it. > >>>I don't see stitching PWs together as anything > >>>different than bridging/patching two enet segments > >>>together. This seems to fit well within the PWE3 > >>>charter of p2p pwe3s. HOWEVER, if we start talking about=20 > >>>automatically patching these together, then this requires more=20 > >>>intelligence such as the form of some routing protocol.=20 > This is the=20 > >>>purview of the L2VPN WG, which I do agree constitutes > >>>another 'layer'. > >>> > >>> --Tom > >>> > >>> > >>> =20 > >>> > >>>>>Neil, I think the problem is the definition of a network. PW=20 > >>>>>switching just connects wires 1 to 1 in a static mode. I=20 > see it as=20 > >>>>>a wire extension. > >>>>> =20 > >>>>> > >>>>The early phone network just connected wires to wires in a > >>>>provisioned mode > >>>>i.e. call the operator and they connected 2 wires=20 > together. And that=20 > >>>>was not a > >>>>network?! > >>>> > >>>>And if by "static mode" you mean we enter static configuration to=20 > >>>>stitch together millions of wires in hundreds of boxes then that=20 > >>>>would be a massive step backwards for service providers. > >>>> > >>>>Peter Willis, > >>>>Office of the BT Group CTO. > >>>> > >>>> =20 > >>>> > >>> =20 > >>> > >>_______________________________________________ > >>pwe3 mailing list > >>pwe3@ietf.org > >>https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > >> > >> =20 > >> > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________ > >pwe3 mailing list > >pwe3@ietf.org > >https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > > > =20 > > >=20 > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 >=20 From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Sun Oct 10 02:37:16 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA18107 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:37:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CGXUm-0005Um-JL for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:47:55 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CGXHT-0000Dp-FI; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:34:07 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CGXAh-0007bu-7F for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:27:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA17672 for ; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta1.huawei.com ([61.144.161.40] helo=huawei.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CGXJJ-0005MK-FY for l2vpn@ietf.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 02:37:44 -0400 Received: from rtysrt (huawei.com [172.17.1.62]) by mta0.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.21 (built Sep 8 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I5C0062OUFKML@mta0.huawei.com> for l2vpn@ietf.org; Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:09:21 +0800 (CST) Date: Sun, 10 Oct 2004 14:13:27 +0800 From: Du wenhua To: Marc Lasserre , Loa Andersson , L2VPN Message-id: <002001c4ae90$425aff40$541b6e0a@rtysrt> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-transfer-encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-imss-version: 2.7 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@huawei.com References: <0I5900MFJN0H5O@mta0.huawei.com> <11f901c4ad4a$f3860bd0$6501a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> X-Spam-Score: 1.2 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 93df555cbdbcdae9621e5b95d44b301e Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list 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(8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10986 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:56:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CHLRj-0003Gm-FL for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 08:08:04 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CHL8j-0006RJ-0E; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:48:25 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CHL2A-000507-7d for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:41:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA10209 for ; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:41:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ip18.tpack.net ([213.173.228.18] helo=mail.tpack.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CHLCs-0002sb-IT for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 12 Oct 2004 07:52:43 -0400 Received: (qmail 30015 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2004 11:41:01 -0000 Received: from bla-1.cph.tpack.net (HELO BLA1) (192.168.4.15) by 0 with SMTP; 12 Oct 2004 11:41:01 -0000 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Benny_Ammitzb=F8ll?= To: , Date: Tue, 12 Oct 2004 13:41:01 +0200 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_004E_01C4B061.1CC0CC10" X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Importance: Normal X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 5ebbf074524e58e662bc8209a6235027 Subject: Spoke pseudowire signaling X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: ff03b0075c3fc728d7d60a15b4ee1ad2 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_004E_01C4B061.1CC0CC10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id HAA10209 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Folks, >From draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt, section 8.1.1 "Spoke connectivity = for bridging-capable devices": "For each VPLS service, a single spoke pseudowire is set up between th= e MTU-s=20 and the PE-rs based on [PWE3-CTRL]. Unlike traditional pseudowires=20 that terminate on a physical (or a VLAN-tagged logical) port at each=20 end, the spoke pseudowire terminates on a virtual bridge instance on=20 the MTU-s and the PE-rs devices. " >From draft-ietf-pwe3-control-protocol-11.txt, section 5.2.1 "Attachment Identifiers": "If the AGI is non-null, then the Source AI (SAI) consists of the AGI together with the SAII, and the Target AI (TAI) consists of the TAII together with the AGI. If the AGI is null, then the SAII and TAII are the SAI and TAI respectively." >From draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt, section 4.1.1 "Using the Generaliz= ed PWid FEC Element": "AGI, Length, Value: The unique name of this VPLS. The AGI=20 identifies a type of name, the length denotes the length of Value,=20 which is the name of the VPLS. We will use the term AGI=20 interchangeably with VPLS identifier.=20 =20 TAII, SAII: These are null because the mesh of PWs in a VPLS=20 terminate on MAC learning tables, rather than on individual=20 attachment circuits. " So how is a spoke pseudowire being signaled using Generalized PWid FEC? T= he TAII and SAII can not both be null in this case, because one of them must point out an attachment identifier (AI) in the MTU-s. Also, note that the= AI in the MTU-s *must* consist of the VPLS AGI and a local AII. So the MTU-s *must* support attachment identifiers where the AGI is non-null and equal= to the VPLS AGI. My proposal would be to allow the TAII or SAII to be non-null when signal= ing a connection between a VPLS forwarder and a PWE-3 (single point / physica= l interface) forwarder. This may also be the intention, but the text in draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt should clearly state this. Regards, Benny L=F8nstrup Ammitzb=F8ll, M.Sc.E.E. 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Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIDnp-0007CR-Af for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:10:30 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CIDZS-0006Vw-Oa; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:55:38 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CIDY8-0006B9-N0 for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:54:16 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA10832 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.222.161]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIDjM-00074W-L3 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 18:05:53 -0400 Received: from nj7460exch001h.wins.lucent.com (h135-17-42-36.lucent.com [135.17.42.36]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9ELrgrk016294 for ; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 16:53:42 -0500 (CDT) Received: by NJ7460EXCH001H with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <4M3H3N2N>; Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:53:42 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Busschbach, Peter B (Peter)" To: "'Loa Andersson'" , L2VPN Date: Thu, 14 Oct 2004 17:53:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: bb8f917bb6b8da28fc948aeffb74aa17 Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: RE: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 52e1467c2184c31006318542db5614d5 A question on 8.2.2: how does PE3-rs know that the secondary PW got activated and that it should flush the addresses? Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:46 AM > To: L2VPN > Cc: Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin > Subject: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > > > Working group, > > this mail is to initiate a working group last call > on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. > > Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and > to the working co-chairs. > > The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. > > Loa, Rick and Vach > > > -- > Loa Andersson > > Principal Networking Architect > Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > loa@pi.se > From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 15 03:51:22 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02833 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:51:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIN3K-0000Cn-V5 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 04:03:07 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CIMrX-0001Er-Av; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:50:55 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CIMnS-0000ix-GL for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:46:43 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA02598 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:46:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.riverstonenet.com ([63.113.148.10] helo=riverstonenet.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CIMyl-0008Rc-6c for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 03:58:24 -0400 Received: from lasserretplxp by riverstonenet.com (8.9.3+Sun/SMI-SVR4-Yago) id AAA01978; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 00:45:51 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <0b4101c4b28a$ffd18a50$6401a8c0@rs.riverstonenet.com> From: "Marc Lasserre" To: "Busschbach, Peter B \(Peter\)" , "'Loa Andersson'" , "L2VPN" References: Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:45:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 538aad3a3c4f01d8b6a6477ca4248793 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aafa0432175920a4b3e118e16c5cb64 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Peter, PE3-rs would get a "notification" from the MTU-s in the form of a MAC withdrawal message as explained in section 4.2. Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: "Busschbach, Peter B (Peter)" To: "'Loa Andersson'" ; "L2VPN" Cc: "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin" Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:53 PM Subject: RE: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt >A question on 8.2.2: how does PE3-rs know that the secondary PW got >activated and that it should flush the addresses? > > Peter > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] >> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:46 AM >> To: L2VPN >> Cc: Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin >> Subject: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt >> >> >> Working group, >> >> this mail is to initiate a working group last call >> on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. >> >> Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and >> to the working co-chairs. >> >> The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. >> >> Loa, Rick and Vach >> >> >> -- >> Loa Andersson >> >> Principal Networking Architect >> Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 >> Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 >> Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se >> loa@pi.se >> > > From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Oct 15 10:43:15 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA08829 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:43:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CITTw-0000xj-83 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:55:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CIT9M-0007Vx-Nv; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:33:44 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CIT5r-0006Ls-5s for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:30:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA06199 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:30:04 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com ([192.11.222.161]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CITHD-0000Sr-En for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:41:53 -0400 Received: from nj7460exch002h.wins.lucent.com (h135-17-42-35.lucent.com [135.17.42.35]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.12.11/8.12.11) with ESMTP id i9FETW1i023255 for ; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 09:29:32 -0500 (CDT) Received: by NJ7460EXCH002H with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) id <4M3H6TH4>; Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:29:32 -0400 Message-ID: From: "Busschbach, Peter B (Peter)" To: "'Marc Lasserre'" , "'Loa Andersson'" , L2VPN Date: Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:29:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2657.72) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 41c17b4b16d1eedaa8395c26e9a251c4 Cc: Thomas Narten , Alex Zinin Subject: RE: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 4b800b1eab964a31702fa68f1ff0e955 Ah, ok. You might want to add a reference to 4.2 in 8.2.2, to remind sloppy readers like me where to find the precise description of the procedure. Alternatively, you could consider removing the description of the backup procedure from 4.2 and move it to 8.2, which IMO would lead to a more logical flow. Thanks, Peter > -----Original Message----- > From: Marc Lasserre [mailto:marc@riverstonenet.com] > Sent: Friday, October 15, 2004 3:46 AM > To: Busschbach, Peter B (Peter); 'Loa Andersson'; L2VPN > Cc: Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin > Subject: Re: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > > > Peter, > > PE3-rs would get a "notification" from the MTU-s in the form of a MAC > withdrawal message as explained in section 4.2. > > Marc > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Busschbach, Peter B (Peter)" > To: "'Loa Andersson'" ; "L2VPN" > Cc: "Thomas Narten" ; "Alex Zinin" > Sent: Thursday, October 14, 2004 11:53 PM > Subject: RE: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > > > >A question on 8.2.2: how does PE3-rs know that the secondary PW got > >activated and that it should flush the addresses? > > > > Peter > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Loa Andersson [mailto:loa@pi.se] > >> Sent: Thursday, September 30, 2004 8:46 AM > >> To: L2VPN > >> Cc: Thomas Narten; Alex Zinin > >> Subject: wg last call - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt > >> > >> > >> Working group, > >> > >> this mail is to initiate a working group last call > >> on draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt. > >> > >> Please send comments to the l2vpn mailing list and > >> to the working co-chairs. > >> > >> The last call ends end of business day October 15 PST. > >> > >> Loa, Rick and Vach > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Loa Andersson > >> > >> Principal Networking Architect > >> Acreo AB phone: +46 8 632 77 14 > >> Isafjordsgatan 22 mobile: +46 739 81 21 64 > >> Kista, Sweden email: loa.andersson@acreo.se > >> loa@pi.se > >> > > > > > From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 19 16:45:03 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA11713 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:45:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CK13D-00022r-2y for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:57:47 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CJsmf-00074i-Pg; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:08:09 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CJsUW-0003w2-9z; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:49:24 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14548; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:49:22 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410191149.HAA14548@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:49:22 -0400 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 10ba05e7e8a9aa6adb025f426bef3a30 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : Service Requirements for Layer 2 Provider Provisioned Virtual Private Networks Author(s) : W. Augustyn, Y. Serbest Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt Pages : 26 Date : 2004-10-18 This document provides requirements for Layer 2 Provider Provisioned Virtual Private Networks (PPVPNs). It first provides taxonomy and terminology and states generic and general service requirements. It covers point to point VPNs referred to as Virtual Private Wire Service (VPWS), as well as multipoint to multipoint VPNs also known as Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS). Detailed requirements are expressed from a customer as well as a service provider perspective. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-18173146.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-18173146.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 19 16:56:54 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA12471 for ; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 16:56:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CK1Eg-0002Kp-3v for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 17:09:38 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CJsmi-000758-EW; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 08:08:12 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CJsUa-0003wA-H2; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:49:28 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14555; Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:49:26 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410191149.HAA14555@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 07:49:26 -0400 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: a87a9cdae4ac5d3fbeee75cd0026d632 --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : VPLS Applicability Author(s) : M. Lasserre, et al. Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt Pages : 20 Date : 2004-10-18 Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) is a layer 2 VPN service that provides multipoint connectivity in the form of an Ethernet emulated LAN, while usual L2 VPN services are typically point-to-point. Such emulated LANs can span across metropolitan area networks as well as wide area networks. [VPLS-LDP] defines a method for signaling MPLS connections between member PEs of a VPN and a method for forwarding Ethernet frames over such connections. This document describes the applicability of such procedures to provide VPLS services. This document also compares the characteristics of this solution against the requirements specified in [L2VPN-REQ]. In summary, there are no architectural limitations to prevent the requirements from being met. But meeting certain requirements (e.g. QoS) is beyond the specification of [VPLS-LDP], and requires careful planning and precise implementation of the Service Provider (SP) networks. This document attempts to capture such issues, presents the potential solutions to these issues, and discusses the pros and cons of each alternative. This document does not cover the applicability of [VPLS-BGP]. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-18173156.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-18173156.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Thu Oct 21 19:55:47 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA05042 for ; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 19:55:47 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CKmzJ-0003hG-HM for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 20:08:57 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CKl6D-00057d-9N; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 18:07:57 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CKj4c-0000wp-Qo; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:58:10 -0400 Received: from CNRI.Reston.VA.US (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id PAA13870; Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:58:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-Id: <200410211958.PAA13870@ietf.org> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Multipart/Mixed; Boundary="NextPart" To: i-d-announce@ietf.org From: Internet-Drafts@ietf.org Date: Thu, 21 Oct 2004 15:58:08 -0400 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: I-D ACTION:draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.4 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 31247fb3be228bb596db9127becad0bc --NextPart A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : VPLS OAM Requirements and Framework Author(s) : D. Mohan, A. Sajassi Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt Pages : 15 Date : 2004-10-21 This draft provides framework and requirements for Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS) Operation, Administration and Maintenance (OAM). A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt To remove yourself from the I-D Announcement list, send a message to i-d-announce-request@ietf.org with the word unsubscribe in the body of the message. You can also visit https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/I-D-announce to change your subscription settings. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP. Login with the username "anonymous" and a password of your e-mail address. After logging in, type "cd internet-drafts" and then "get draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt". A list of Internet-Drafts directories can be found in http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt Internet-Drafts can also be obtained by e-mail. Send a message to: mailserv@ietf.org. In the body type: "FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt". NOTE: The mail server at ietf.org can return the document in MIME-encoded form by using the "mpack" utility. To use this feature, insert the command "ENCODING mime" before the "FILE" command. To decode the response(s), you will need "munpack" or a MIME-compliant mail reader. Different MIME-compliant mail readers exhibit different behavior, especially when dealing with "multipart" MIME messages (i.e. documents which have been split up into multiple messages), so check your local documentation on how to manipulate these messages. Below is the data which will enable a MIME compliant mail reader implementation to automatically retrieve the ASCII version of the Internet-Draft. --NextPart Content-Type: Multipart/Alternative; Boundary="OtherAccess" --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; access-type="mail-server"; server="mailserv@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-21154705.I-D@ietf.org> ENCODING mime FILE /internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt --OtherAccess Content-Type: Message/External-body; name="draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt"; site="ftp.ietf.org"; access-type="anon-ftp"; directory="internet-drafts" Content-Type: text/plain Content-ID: <2004-10-21154705.I-D@ietf.org> --OtherAccess-- --NextPart-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Tue Oct 26 10:44:52 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10530 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:44:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMSms-0004PO-8l for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:59:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CMSXE-0003d6-Hg; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:42:52 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CMSSG-0002Tm-B9 for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:37:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id KAA10155 for ; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:37:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtp102.mail.sc5.yahoo.com ([216.136.174.140]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMSfs-0004IL-3v for l2vpn@ietf.org; Tue, 26 Oct 2004 10:51:52 -0400 Received: from unknown (HELO RLAPTOP) (vsharma87@202.63.185.44 with login) by smtp102.mail.sc5.yahoo.com with SMTP; 26 Oct 2004 14:37:37 -0000 From: "Vishal Sharma" To: "MPLS" , "CCAMP" , "L2PPVPN" , "L3PPVPN" , "PWE3" Date: Tue, 26 Oct 2004 07:37:22 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 (Normal) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2911.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 200d029292fbb60d25b263122ced50fc Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: Loa Andersson , Thomas Nadeau , "Monique J. Morrow" Subject: Deadline extended: "Inter-Provider Service Quality..." IEEE Comm. Mag. CFP X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list Reply-To: v.sharma@ieee.org List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 3.4 (+++) X-Scan-Signature: 789c141a303c09204b537a4078e2a63f Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Folks, Due to responses from several quarters for this CFP, and the authors requesting for more time to submit, we are happy to let you know that the deadline for submission for this Feature Topic issue has been extended up to: **26 November 2004**. So, we invite those working in this area who are considering sending in their contributions, but were held back by the deadline to rush to do so! If you intend to submit a paper for this special issue, please do drop one of the Guest Editors a note, so that we can plan the issue. We look forward to your continued participation! Thanks, -Vishal ========================================================================= CALL FOR PAPERS IEEE Communications Magazine Feature Topic on "Challenges in Enabling Inter-Provider Service Quality on the Internet" ************************************************************************* ** Submission deadline extended to 26 November 2004.** As carriers and service providers build multi-services networks based on IP/MPLS- enabled infrastructures that are able to meet evermore stringent service level agreements (SLAs) and quality-of-service (QoS) requirements, it becomes a key issue to extend the ability to deliver these services across carrier and service provider domain boundaries, while at the same time preserving the same SLAs and QoS assurances as those provided within a given provider's network. The advent of new end-user applications, as well as new services based on MPLS technology, such as Layer 2 Virtual Private LAN Services (VPLS) and Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks (L3VPNs), also means the emergence of added service quality requirements from operators deploying and interoperating these networks and the end-users themselves. As a result, providers and vendors require efficient means to enable inter-provider service quality, which comprises of several key elements including quality of service, class of service, security, OAM, and restoration and repair. This will is lead to the emergence of improved or novel tools and techniques to address these aspects, with the goal of guaranteeing service quality end-to-end, improving security and billing/accounting, and reducing operating costs. Standards organizations such as the IETF and the ITU are taking on significant work in this area, and various aspects of this subject are also being investigated by bodies such as the OIF, the MSF, the MPLS/Frame Relay Alliance, the IEEE, and the Metro Ethernet Forum, and are the themes for numerous upcoming conferences. This feature topic issue of the IEEE Communications Magazine has a multi-pronged focus on the delivery of inter-provider service quality: * Highlight operator and end-user concerns and requirements. * Feature current and/or planned deployment experiences. * Survey modern research and engineering developments. * Spotlight contemporary standards activity. Thus, focused tutorial and survey contributions as well as research papers are solicited on (but certainly not limited to) the following topics: * Carrier requirements for efficient inter-provider service quality: Current operational needs, bottlenecks, future demands * Deployment experience with inter-provider service quality on IP/MPLS- based networks: comparative analysis, case studies * QoS management in an inter-provider environment: interconnection architectures using MPLS, Diffserv, QoS performance, path characterization, routing policies * Service assurance in inter-provider infrastructures: End-to-end SLA management, service billing/reporting, admission control * Failure and restoration requirements/challenges in inter-provider contexts * Interoperability and inter-working of diverse equipment types and technologies (ATM, FR, Ethernet) * Current engineering and research developments: E.g. Passive and active performance measurement and monitoring, TE, modelling and simulation * Standards activities and initiatives: new services and network architectures On-line CFP with submission instructions can be found at: http://www.metanoia-inc.com/IEEECommMag_InterProviderQoS_CFP.htm Submission Articles should be tutorial in nature and should be written in a style comprehensible to readers outside the specialty of the article. Articles may be edited for clarity and grammatical accuracy, and will be copyedited according to the Magazine's style. Mathematical equations should not be used (in justified cases up to three simple equations could be allowed, provided there is consent of the Guest Editor; more than three equations require permission from the Editor-in-Chief). Articles should have no more than 4,500 words, no more than 6 tables/figures, and no more than 15 references. Guidelines for prospective authors can be found on-line at http://www.comsoc.org/pubs/commag/sub_guidelines.html. ** Please submit no later than 26 November 2004.** Accepted papers will also be included in Communications Interactive (CI), the online version of Communications Magazine. Manuscript Due: **26 November 2004** Acceptance Notification: 15 January 2004 Final Manuscript Due: 28 February 2005 Publication Date: June 2005 (Deadline extended from 30th October 2004 to 26th November 2004.) Guest Editors Monique J. Morrow, Cisco Systems, (mmorrow@cisco.com) Vishal Sharma, Metanoia, Inc. (v.sharma@ieee.org) Thomas D.Nadeau, Cisco Systems (tnadeau@cisco.com) Loa Andersson, Acreo (loa@pi.se) **************************************************************** Vishal Sharma, Ph.D. Metanoia, Inc. (Critical Systems Thinking) 888 Villa Street, Suite 200, Mountain View, CA 94041-1261 Phone: +1 650-641-0082. Fax: +1 650-641-0086 Email: v.sharma@ieee.org. http://www.metanoia-inc.com **************************************************************** From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 27 06:58:50 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24500 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:58:50 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMljs-0002aS-QX for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:13:12 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CMlVe-0008Ty-17; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:58:30 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CMlUX-0008Kg-Pi for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:57:21 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id GAA24378 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 06:57:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mta0.huawei.com ([61.144.161.41] helo=huawei.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMliJ-0002YI-8c for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:11:40 -0400 Received: from l04955 (mta1.huawei.com [172.17.1.60]) by mta1.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 1.16 (built May 14 2003)) with ESMTPA id <0I6800ER9LCHZW@mta1.huawei.com> for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:36:19 +0800 (CST) Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 17:50:34 +0800 From: lidefeng <77cronux.leed0621@huawei.com> To: l2vpn@ietf.org Message-id: <005d01c4bc0a$680c2de0$07436e0a@l04955> MIME-version: 1.0 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Boundary_(ID_COE5T+/YMdfWqQCvDVETEg)" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-priority: Normal X-imss-version: 2.7 X-imss-result: Passed X-imss-approveListMatch: *@huawei.com X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 8b30eb7682a596edff707698f4a80f7d Subject: Where VPWS L2 VPN drafts went? X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 1.7 (+) X-Scan-Signature: 7baded97d9887f7a0c7e8a33c2e3ea1b This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --Boundary_(ID_COE5T+/YMdfWqQCvDVETEg) Content-type: text/plain; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT Dear All, No long ago, VPWS drafts such as targeted LDP based mpls l2 vpn(martini l2 vpn)and mp-bgp based mpls l2 vpn(kompella l2 vpn) are belong to l2vpn wg, and now in the website of IETF l2vpn wg, no such wg draft, and almost only vpls related wg draft can be found in the website of IETF l2vpn wg,who can tell me where they went? and what is the future way of those solutions? Best Regards Defeng Li --Boundary_(ID_COE5T+/YMdfWqQCvDVETEg) Content-type: text/html; charset=gb2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT
Dear All,
 
No long ago, VPWS drafts such as targeted LDP based mpls l2 vpn(martini l2 vpn)and mp-bgp based mpls l2 vpn(kompella l2 vpn) are belong to l2vpn wg, and now in the website of IETF l2vpn wg, no such wg draft,  and almost only vpls related wg draft can be found in the website of IETF l2vpn wg,who can tell me where they went? and what is the future way of those solutions?
 
Best Regards
 
Defeng Li 
--Boundary_(ID_COE5T+/YMdfWqQCvDVETEg)-- From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Wed Oct 27 07:32:42 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA26460 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMmGd-00036w-8U for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:47:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CMm0s-0005Al-4b; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:30:46 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CMm0H-00052N-Ur for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:30:10 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA26291 for ; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:30:08 -0400 (EDT) From: m.rapoport@completel.fr Received: from [195.167.192.116] (helo=smtp-out.completel.net) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CMmDy-000331-Ax for l2vpn@ietf.org; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 07:44:29 -0400 Received: from Notes01 (fwa.completel.fr [213.30.170.197]) by smtp-out.completel.net (Postfix) with ESMTP id 85D4B25C0B1; Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:29:27 +0200 (CEST) To: lidefeng <77cronux.leed0621@huawei.com> X-Mailer: Lotus Notes Release 5.0.10 March 22, 2002 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 27 Oct 2004 13:30:15 +0200 X-MIMETrack: Serialize by Router on Notes01/CompleTel/fr(Release 5.0.10 |March 22, 2002) at 27/10/2004 13:28:39 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: f607d15ccc2bc4eaf3ade8ffa8af02a0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: =?iso-8859-1?q?R=E9f=2E_=3A_Where_VPWS_L2_VPN_drafts__went=3F?= X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 02ec665d00de228c50c93ed6b5e4fc1a Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable You have to search for PWE3 WG. Rgds, ___________________________________ Marc Rapoport m.rapoport@completel.fr Dpt Architecture Completel tel : +33 1 72 92 25 38 fax: +33 1 72 92 20 01 _____________________________________ = =20 lidefeng = =20 <77cronux.leed0621@ Pour : l2vpn@ietf.o= rg =20 huawei.com> cc : = =20 Envoy=E9 par : Objet : Where VPWS= L2 VPN drafts went? =20 l2vpn-bounces@ietf. = =20 org = =20 = =20 = =20 27/10/2004 11:50 = =20 = =20 = =20 Dear All, No long ago, VPWS drafts such as targeted LDP based mpls l2 vpn(martini= l2 vpn)and mp-bgp based mpls l2 vpn(kompella l2 vpn) are belong to l2vpn w= g, and now in the website of IETF l2vpn wg, no such wg draft, and almost = only vpls related wg draft can be found in the website of IETF l2vpn wg,who = can tell me where they went? and what is the future way of those solutions?= Best Regards Defeng Li =