From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 6 21:22:20 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA20033 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:22:20 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbV67-00064k-26 for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:29:04 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbUws-0003wl-MX; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:19:30 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CbUwb-0003pJ-DV for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:19:13 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA19844 for ; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 21:19:11 -0500 (EST) Received: from 98.203.216.216.transedge.com ([216.216.203.98] helo=boserver.360degreeweb.com) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CbV34-00060m-SC for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 06 Dec 2004 21:25:55 -0500 Received: from windowsxpsp1 (61.51.211.146 [61.51.211.146]) by boserver.360degreeweb.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2655.55) id YM4CSPJY; Mon, 6 Dec 2004 18:19:19 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c4dc02$ff465060$6e01a8c0@windowsxpsp1> From: "eric.qu" To: References: Date: Tue, 7 Dec 2004 10:17:38 +0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 4d87d2aa806f79fed918a62e834505ca Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Subject: Re: Welcome to the "L2vpn" mailing list (Digest mode) X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: 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YWdlIHRoYXQgd2lsbCBlbWFpbCB5b3VyIGN1cnJlbnQgcGFzc3dvcmQgdG8geW91Lg0KPg== From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Fri Dec 10 16:41:08 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA00649 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:41:08 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Ccscz-00016p-Bk for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:48:41 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcsPE-0007YL-MX; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:34:28 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1CcsI1-0002eD-0N for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:27:01 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA26867 for ; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:26:58 -0500 (EST) Received: from web201.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.224.163]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CcsPG-0000Ln-HV for l2vpn@ietf.org; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 16:34:31 -0500 Message-ID: <20041210212628.9710.qmail@web201.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.251.97.130] by web201.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:26:28 PST Date: Fri, 10 Dec 2004 13:26:28 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilder To: l2vpn@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 2b2ad76aced9b1d558e34a970a85c027 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by ietf.org id QAA26867 Subject: minutes for IETF61 L2VPN meeting X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 2.0 (++) X-Scan-Signature: 16a2b98d831858659c646b3dec9ed22b Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The minutes for the Washington DC meeting are below. Many thanks to Mustapha Aissaoui and Cheng-Yin Lee for taking notes. Rick -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ---- L2 VPN Working Group Meeting Nov. 9, 2004 Washington DC Chairs: Vach Kompella Loa Andersen Rick Wilder 1. Agenda 1. Agenda bashing 2. Working group status (10 min) draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-05.txt draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-bgp-02.txt draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-01.txt chairs 3. Working group documents - Author/ Editor feedback (15 min) draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt Marc Lasserre draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-01.txt Eric Rosen draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt Himanshu Shah draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt Himanshu Shah draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt Dinesh Mohan 4. Radius based L2VPN's (20 min) draft-ietf-l2vpn-radius-pe-discovery-00.txt draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2tp-radius-vpls-00.txt Note: Drafts has dated, but it is the intention have this update anywa= y Greg Weber 5. Supporting IP Multicast over VPLS (10 min) =20 Yetik Serbest=20 6. OAM Procedures for VPWS Interworking (10 min) =20 Mustapha Aissaoui 7. VPLS Interoperability with CE Bridges(10 min) =20 Ali Sajassi 8. Multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs and VPLS(10 min) draft-raggarwa-l3vpn-mvpn-vpls-mcast-00.txt=20 Rahul Aggarwal 9. Testing Hierarchical Virtual Private LAN Services (10 min) Vach Kompella 10. Meeting closes 2. Working Group status reported by Vach Kompella - draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2-framework-05.txt: Sent to IESG, in RFC editor=92s = queue - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-bgp-02.txt: IDR review done. Minor PWE3 dependenc= y. - draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-05.txt: Minor PWE3 dependency. - draft-ietf-l2vpn-requirements-03.txt: publication requested 3. Author/Editor feedback on Working Group Documents VPLS Applicability =96 Marc Lassere draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-ldp-applic-00.txt=20 Document updated to address comments received. Ethernet to VPLS migration= scenarios added and alignment with IEEE 802.1ad (VLAN translation). Further comments soli= cited from mailing list. Provisioning Models and Endpoint Identifiers in L2VPN Signaling =96 Eric = Rosen draft-ietf-l2vpn-signaling-01.txt A new revision of this document will be produced. Dependencies to and fro= m this document will be checked. ARP Mediation for IP Interworking of Layer 2VPN - Himanshu Shah draft-ietf-l2vpn-arp-mediation-00.txt Author stated that this draft was multiple independent implementations wi= th demonstrated interoperability.=20 IANA value assignment needed to support CE address TLV. IP-Only LAN Service (IPLS) =96 Himanshu Shah draft-ietf-l2vpn-ipls-01.txt No new updates, but feedback has been received and updates planned for BG= P-based signaling, clarification of MAC-to-IP address learning, and support for o= ther traffic, eg IPv6, IS-IS. These may be addressed in a future draft. 4. VPLS OAM Requirements and Framework - Dinesh Mohan draft-ietf-l2vpn-oam-req-frmk-01.txt Since previous revision: have added reference to BGP-based VPLS, clarifie= d client-server relationship, updated normative/informative references. Next steps: address VPWS OAM requirements and framework. Discussion: Joel Halpern thought this was a well-written draft but thoug= ht this applied to an end-to-end Ethernet service. He does not think that the IETF should= tell the IEEE requirements for Ethernet OAM.=20 Extensive discussion followed of whether this draft is within the WG scop= e. Further clarification is needed of the VPLS-specific nature of the requirements = to resolve this issue. Vach thought this document contains out of scope material because = it goes beyond VPLS (learning, PW encapsulation) into Q-in-Q.=20 Dave suggested that we focus the document on how to make sure that end-to= -end emulated Ethernet service is not compromised by the VPLS service. Thus, VPLS OAM r= equirements should be about making sure that it does not break end-to-end service cha= racteristics and OAM. This discussion will continue on the mailing list. 5. Radius/L2TP based VPLS=20 draft-ietf-l2vpn-radius-pe-discovery-00.txt, Greg Weber draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2tp-radius-vpls-00.txt, Mark Townsley. The drafts have expired, but the authors intend to publish new versions.=20 Loa: Even if new versions are not done, it is correct to re-submit the dr= afts to keep them alive. Current document focus was narrow as it only addressed VPLS. It does not = take advantage of new RADIUS CoA extensions as in RFC3576.=20 Future updates: generalize to VPWS. Allow stateless operation.=20 Author walked over an example of transactions for VPWS and VPLS. To reduc= e the number of transactions, some can be collapsed. Radius accounting messages may be us= ed for billing.=20 Author requests feedback before making updates Discussion Ali Sajassi thinks that this work should continue and drafts should be u= pdated. Himanshu Shah had a question on how this interacts with NM systems which do the co= nfigurations in today=92s networks. Yakov Rector thought that the new value in Mark=92s p= roposal was for AC configuration and authentication. Network side has been addressed by othe= r protocols, e.g., BGP. Chairs suggested that detailed discussion should take place when Mark pos= ts his draft. At that time, we will now if we can retire draft-ietf-l2vpn-l2tp-radius-vpls= -00.tx. 6. Supporting IP Multicast over VPLS =96 Yetik Serbest draft-serbest-multicast-vpls-00.txt Current VPLS behavior is to flood frames for destination MAC addresses wh= ich have not been learnt and for multicast and broadcast destination MAC addresses.=20 An objectives of this draft is to not send frames where there are no rece= ivers who need it.=20 Solution is based on snooping IGMP and/or PIM.=20 Author walked through an example of IPTV in SBC network. Proposal is made= to solve the traffic duplication problem: detect it and drop the traffic coming from/t= o the AC/PW.=20 Author requests comments. Discussion: Alignment with Multicast work in L3VPN is needed. How about m= ixed router/host network? Also, there is a bug in the description of the BATR PIM support.= Support for IPv6 is another thing missing in this draft. How does PIM refresh reducti= on fit? Can snooping be relied upon? The draft should describe the overhead of PIM sn= ooping.=20 Discussion is to continue on the mailing list. 7. OAM Procedures for VPWS Interworking =96 Mustapha Aissaoui draft-aissaoui-l2vpn-vpws-iw-oam-01.txt This draft specifies the procedures for OAM interworking for the followin= g VPWS: IP L2 interworking (ARP-mediation), FR-ATM interworking (FRF8.2), Ethernet inte= rworking. It complements draft-ietf-pwe3-oam-msg-map-01.txt, which covers the homog= eneous VPWS. Addressed three issues raised by coauthors.=20 Issue 1: Defect loop operation. Single emulated end-to-end loop versus mu= ltiple coupled loops. settled on a modified "coupled loop" model which we believe works in all = scenarios addressed in the draft. Issue 2: Should the receipt of a defect in the reverse direction of a rem= ote AC or a PW result in a different action at a PE? we analyzed the defects for all sce= narios in the draft and we have now updated the text to treat this as a separate defect. Issue 3: Check the behavior in the case of L2TPv3 PSN Updated PW defect h= andling procedures using StopCCN and CDN messages after discussion with Mark Town= sley in San-Diego. Next steps: Add support for inband fault notification based on BFD. Autho= rs would like to make this document a Working Group draft and progress it as the basis for= OAM for IP L2 Interworking work item. Sent message to mailing list to request more feed= back. Vach asked to make the additional updates and then make a call for WG doc= ument. 8. VPLS Interoperability with CE Bridges =96 Ali Sajassi draft-sajassi-l2vpn-vpls-bridge-interop-00.txt VPLS is a bridged LAN service which can also support CE bridges. There wa= s not much data plane discussion in the VPLS work in L2VPN WG. Most of the work and discu= ssions centered on the data plane and control plane over the IP/MPLS network. There are a= number of service types defined for bridges in IEEE which are not covered by the VP= LS drafts.=20 Bridge interoperability issues: CE bridge protocol handling; customer net= work topology changes; redundancy; MAC address scalability; partial mesh PWs; multicast= traffic; interoperability with 802.1ad bridges. Further discussion of this draft to take place on the mailing list. 9. Multicast in BGP/MPLS VPNs and VPLS =96 Rahul Aggarwal draft-raggarwa-l3vpn-mvpn-vpls-mcast-00.txt Issues with existing VPLS proposals include: no PIM peering between CE an= d PE, nor between PEs. VPLS makes use of ingress replication by the PE. Also traffi= c is sent to sites with no receivers. PIM/IGMP snooping is a possible approach, but re= quires PIM join suppression to be disabled by VPLS customers. Problem is snooping needs t= o be performed at AC and PW sides.=20 Proposed solution is trying to address the above issues with common trade= -offs for L3 VPN and VPLS. IGMP/PIM snooping is not performed for remote sites. Use of mul= ticast tree which can be shared across multiple VPLS instances. It can makes use of P= IM-SM, PIM-SSM, or p2mp TE LSPs. Author illustrated how this works through an example. Feedback requested from the email list. 10. Testing Hierarchical Virtual Private LAN Services =96 Vach Kompella draft-stokes-vkompella-l2vpn-hvpls-oam-00.txt Updates since last revision (draft expired and is renamed): Added two mo= des of identifying and detecting OAM messages. Router Alert label at bottom of l= abel stack and control word based one (PWE3 PID). Relation to OAM framework: OAM for a service carrying ethernet packets. S= ervice operates at a layer below the Ethernet packets. Wants to refer to framework to mak= e sure that end-to-end Ethernet OAM is not broken. Author to provide updates to mail= list for further discussion. From l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Mon Dec 13 12:47:36 2004 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA02187 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:47:36 -0500 (EST) Received: from megatron.ietf.org ([132.151.6.71]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.33) id 1CduQC-0004SZ-UE for l2vpn-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:55:46 -0500 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=megatron.ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cdu7O-0005dH-BI; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:36:18 -0500 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by megatron.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.32) id 1Cdu00-0003PC-5b for l2vpn@megatron.ietf.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:28:40 -0500 Received: from ietf-mx.ietf.org (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id MAA00668 for ; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:28:37 -0500 (EST) Received: from web208.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com ([68.142.224.170]) by ietf-mx.ietf.org with smtp (Exim 4.33) id 1Cdu7f-000406-U1 for l2vpn@ietf.org; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 12:36:47 -0500 Message-ID: <20041213172756.39311.qmail@web208.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Received: from [128.251.97.130] by web208.biz.mail.re2.yahoo.com via HTTP; Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:27:56 PST Date: Mon, 13 Dec 2004 09:27:56 -0800 (PST) From: Rick Wilder To: l2vpn@ietf.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 7aefe408d50e9c7c47615841cb314bed Subject: minutes X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.5 Precedence: list List-Id: l2vpn.ietf.org List-Unsubscribe: , List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Sender: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org Errors-To: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Scan-Signature: 08e48e05374109708c00c6208b534009 Apologies to Yakov Rekhter for the misspelling of his last name in the Washington DC minutes. I'm sending a correction for the proceedings. Rick