From stbryant@cisco.com Wed Mar 7 09:02:39 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1AF621E801B; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 09:02:39 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.576 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.576 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.022, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id o7nBsDVkOKlz; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 09:02:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 649A121F861A; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 09:02:37 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=stbryant@cisco.com; l=6270; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1331139757; x=1332349357; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=+Z01LIlb8EViqTXylZZRBlPu5/fqiJcTjiEx58ayf3w=; b=P2QckAjUVz303K9nE1GMq8Y+bjTKgeIptBH1DZhbwd2udONkB4Qnhnuq NCl34spYmVtbz7XobXEB2k3+SBT2K4XBgOWFu9afjy79wfjPumXt1SI1Z ZjFKVDWOOTXzBnMiP+OUNj5BPQd5wNvdEa7G282fbMYZ9ZJLaTcxQP71e A=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFADOUV0+Q/khM/2dsb2JhbABCtSmBB4IKAQEBBAEBAQ8BAgFYCgEMBBwDAQIKFgQLCQMCAQIBFR8HAggGAQwBBQIBAR6HZgugDAGDMQ8Bk3aQbwSVQZAXgmM X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,546,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="67918220" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 07 Mar 2012 17:02:36 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q27H2ah4014528; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 17:02:36 GMT Received: from stbryant-mac2.local (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id q27H2VBp007435; Wed, 7 Mar 2012 17:02:31 GMT Message-ID: <4F5794A6.4020107@cisco.com> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:02:30 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.6; rv:10.0.2) Gecko/20120216 Thunderbird/10.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Fwd: Last Call: (LDP Typed Wildcard FEC for PWid and Generalized PWid FEC Elements) to Proposed Standard References: <20120307163304.11989.2410.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20120307163304.11989.2410.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> X-Forwarded-Message-Id: <20120307163304.11989.2410.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------050705040201070605070501" Cc: "Ietf@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 17:02:39 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050705040201070605070501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI MPLS and L2VPN WGs. Stewart -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Last Call: (LDP Typed Wildcard FEC for PWid and Generalized PWid FEC Elements) to Proposed Standard Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 08:33:04 -0800 From: The IESG Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org To: IETF-Announce CC: pwe3@ietf.org The IESG has received a request from the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to Edge WG (pwe3) to consider the following document: - 'LDP Typed Wildcard FEC for PWid and Generalized PWid FEC Elements' as a Proposed Standard The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2012-03-21. Exceptionally, comments may be sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting. Abstract The "Typed Wildcard Forwarding Equivalence Class (FEC) Element" defines an extension to the Label Distribution Protocol (LDP) that can be used when it is desired to request or withdraw or release all label bindings for a given FEC Element type. However, a typed wildcard FEC element must be individually defined for each FEC element type. This specification defines the typed wildcard FEC elements for the PWid (0x80) and Generalized PWid (0x81) FEC element types. The file can be obtained via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-typed-wc-fec/ IESG discussion can be tracked via http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-typed-wc-fec/ballot/ No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D. _______________________________________________ IETF-Announce mailing list IETF-Announce@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce --------------050705040201070605070501 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit FYI MPLS and L2VPN WGs.

Stewart

-------- Original Message --------
Subject: Last Call: (LDP Typed Wildcard FEC for PWid and Generalized PWid FEC Elements) to Proposed Standard
Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2012 08:33:04 -0800
From: The IESG <iesg-secretary@ietf.org>
Reply-To: ietf@ietf.org
To: IETF-Announce <ietf-announce@ietf.org>
CC: pwe3@ietf.org 


The IESG has received a request from the Pseudowire Emulation Edge to
Edge WG (pwe3) to consider the following document:
- 'LDP Typed Wildcard FEC for PWid and Generalized PWid FEC Elements'
  <draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-typed-wc-fec-03.txt> as a Proposed Standard

The IESG plans to make a decision in the next few weeks, and solicits
final comments on this action. Please send substantive comments to the
ietf@ietf.org mailing lists by 2012-03-21. Exceptionally, comments may be
sent to iesg@ietf.org instead. In either case, please retain the
beginning of the Subject line to allow automated sorting.

Abstract


   The "Typed Wildcard Forwarding Equivalence Class (FEC) Element"
   defines an extension to the Label Distribution Protocol (LDP) that
   can be used when it is desired to request or withdraw or release all
   label bindings for a given FEC Element type.  However, a typed
   wildcard FEC element must be individually defined for each FEC
   element type.  This specification defines the typed wildcard FEC
   elements for the PWid (0x80) and Generalized PWid (0x81) FEC element
   types.





The file can be obtained via
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-typed-wc-fec/

IESG discussion can be tracked via
http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-pwe3-pw-typed-wc-fec/ballot/


No IPR declarations have been submitted directly on this I-D.


_______________________________________________
IETF-Announce mailing list
IETF-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf-announce
--------------050705040201070605070501-- From bdavie@mit.edu Thu Mar 8 11:24:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3D0C521F8672 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:24:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gFZraQtfJG0k for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (DMZ-MAILSEC-SCANNER-5.MIT.EDU [18.7.68.34]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 59A2A21F847B for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:24:57 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: 12074422-b7fd66d0000008f9-27-4f5907880441 Received: from mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu ( [18.9.21.35]) by dmz-mailsec-scanner-5.mit.edu (Symantec Messaging Gateway) with SMTP id 73.A6.02297.887095F4; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:24:56 -0500 (EST) Received: from outgoing.mit.edu (OUTGOING-AUTH.MIT.EDU [18.7.22.103]) by mailhub-auth-1.mit.edu (8.13.8/8.9.2) with ESMTP id q28JOuCt031509 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:24:56 -0500 Received: from [172.17.242.252] (107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [107.0.204.137]) (authenticated bits=0) (User authenticated as bdavie@ATHENA.MIT.EDU) by outgoing.mit.edu (8.13.6/8.12.4) with ESMTP id q28JOs5x011868 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT) for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2012 14:24:56 -0500 (EST) From: Bruce Davie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_A4F022BA-BF1D-45CA-A514-83D797A9CDD9" Subject: Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-davie-stt-01.txt Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2012 11:24:53 -0800 References: <20120306025330.14849.56792.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> To: l2vpn@ietf.org Message-Id: Mime-Version: 1.0 (Apple Message framework v1257) X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1257) X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrDIsWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUixCmqrNvBHulvsO2JrsXjb4fYHRg9liz5 yRTAGMVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CV0fX8KGtBl0bF+uktrA2M05S7GDk5JARMJOYsPsUOYYtJXLi3 ng3EFhLYxyjxrhvI5gKyjzBKzF5+Girxnkli4bFUEJtNQEmi9ewysGZmgQSJOTceMYLYwgKO Er9vzgWzWQRUJDauPMcO0eso0dBzESwuIiAkcaPhGjOIzStgJfF3xQYmCNtQYuardlaIg2Ql bh/czzSBkW8WkhWzkJRBxLUlli18zTyLkQPI1pGYvJARVRjC/nj+CNMCRrZVjLIpuVW6uYmZ OcWpybrFyYl5ealFuqZ6uZkleqkppZsYQYHK7qK0g/HnQaVDjAIcjEo8vA8fRPgLsSaWFVfm HmKU5GBSEuVdyhrpL8SXlJ9SmZFYnBFfVJqTWnyIUYKDWUmEt7sDqJw3JbGyKrUoHyYlzcGi JM6rrvXOT0ggPbEkNTs1tSC1CCYrw8GhJMErBIxIIcGi1PTUirTMnBKENBMHJ8hwHqDhH9iA aniLCxJzizPTIfKnGBWlxHm/gyQEQBIZpXlwvbBE8opRHOgVYd5vIFU8wCQE1/0KaDAT0OBM mXCQwSWJCCmpBkaW3ZGOSfNrZzic1e/+YvPy+tKu4Gf7ZXfNihcNt9l0t+GXS9DZrkf5gm7s p86e3iDifqVw/qJHHwwPHthaa5Gf5HohxpAphON0/pwNtim7f5T9O7z3wBKlk/qPdbvNjmUH m4XeDeNZf9La1U5hqefVfXLftfueX3Be/r9uc8bH7+kMFzZm28UrsRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAUG7U 5f8CAAA= X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2012 19:24:58 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_A4F022BA-BF1D-45CA-A514-83D797A9CDD9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii This draft may be of interest to the WG, and we have asked the chairs = for a chance to present it in Paris. Regards, Bruce Davie Begin forwarded message: > From: internet-drafts@ietf.org > Subject: New Version Notification for draft-davie-stt-01.txt > Date: March 5, 2012 6:53:30 PM PST > To: bsd@nicira.com > Cc: jesse@nicira.com >=20 > A new version of I-D, draft-davie-stt-01.txt has been successfully = submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. >=20 > Filename: draft-davie-stt > Revision: 01 > Title: A Stateless Transport Tunneling Protocol for = Network Virtualization (STT) > Creation date: 2012-03-05 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 19 >=20 > Abstract: > Network Virtualization places unique requirements on tunneling > protocols. This draft describes STT (Stateless Transport = Tunneling), > a tunnel encapsulation that enables overlay networks to be built in > virtualized networks. STT is particularly useful when some tunnel > endpoints are in end-systems, as it utilizes the capabilities of the > network interface card to improve performance. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > The IETF Secretariat --Apple-Mail=_A4F022BA-BF1D-45CA-A514-83D797A9CDD9 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii This = draft may be of interest to the WG, and we have asked the chairs for a = chance to present it in = Paris.

Regards,
Bruce = Davie

Begin forwarded message:

Subject: New Version Notification for = draft-davie-stt-01.txt
Date: March 5, 2012 6:53:30 PM PST

=
A new version of I-D, draft-davie-stt-01.txt has been successfully = submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF = repository.

Filename: = draft-davie-stt
Revision: 01
Title: A = Stateless Transport Tunneling Protocol for Network Virtualization = (STT)
Creation date: 2012-03-05
WG ID: = Individual Submission
Number of pages: 19

Abstract:
=   Network Virtualization places unique requirements on = tunneling
  protocols.  This draft describes STT = (Stateless Transport Tunneling),
  a tunnel encapsulation = that enables overlay networks to be built in
  virtualized = networks.  STT is particularly useful when some tunnel
=   endpoints are in end-systems, as it utilizes the = capabilities of the
  network interface card to improve = performance.




The IETF = Secretariat

= --Apple-Mail=_A4F022BA-BF1D-45CA-A514-83D797A9CDD9-- From nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com Fri Mar 9 03:06:23 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0D31621F8669 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 03:06:23 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.643 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.643 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.955, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Smqv2ExcpmT for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 03:06:21 -0800 (PST) Received: from fldsmtpe03.verizon.com (fldsmtpe03.verizon.com [140.108.26.142]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3388F21F85F9 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 03:06:15 -0800 (PST) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi02.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.144]) by fldsmtpe03.verizon.com with ESMTP; 09 Mar 2012 11:06:15 +0000 From: "Bitar, Nabil N" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,557,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="234399877" Received: from fldp1lumxc7hb01.verizon.com (HELO FLDP1LUMXC7HB01.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.45.78]) by fldsmtpi02.verizon.com with ESMTP; 09 Mar 2012 11:06:14 +0000 Received: from fldp1lumxc7v63.us.one.verizon.com ([169.254.3.191]) by FLDP1LUMXC7HB01.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.45.78]) with mapi; Fri, 9 Mar 2012 06:04:27 -0500 To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 06:04:26 -0500 Subject: Reminder: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris Thread-Topic: Reminder: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris Thread-Index: Acz95GRdaPr78147SYGQb1YQStl0mA== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.10.0.110310 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CB7F4E6F1CA6Dnabilnbitarverizoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Giles Heron X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2012 11:06:23 -0000 --_000_CB7F4E6F1CA6Dnabilnbitarverizoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, A friendly reminder and per email below, please let us know if you have a = slot request and you have not sent us a request already. Thanks, Nabil From: "Bitar, Nabil N" > Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:48:35 -0500 To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" > Cc: Giles Heron > Subject: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris Hi L2VPN WG. Please let us know if you have a time-slot request for the L2VPN session at= IETF 83 =96 Paris. Please, email us your request by Sunday March 11 2012 = along with the following information: 1) Draft title 2) Presenter name 3) Requested duration Please note that priority will be given to drafts that are clearly within t= he scope of the current L2VPN charter. Additional key dates to remember are: 2012-03-05 (Monday): Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) subm= ission by 17:00 PT 2012-03-12 (Monday): Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 17:00 PT Please, note that the l2vpn WG session is currently scheduled on Thursday M= arch 29 13:00-15:00 Afternoon Session I Thanks, Nabil and Giles --_000_CB7F4E6F1CA6Dnabilnbitarverizoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
A friendly remind= er and  per email below, please let us know if you have a slot request= and you have not sent us a request already. 

Thanks,
Nabil


From: "Bitar, Nabil N" <nabil.n.bitar@one.verizon.com= >
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:= 48:35 -0500
To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" <l2vpn@ietf.org>
C= c: Giles Heron <giheron@cis= co.com>
Subject: [l2vpn]= L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris


Hi L2VPN WG.
Please let us know if you have a time-slot request for the L2VPN session at= IETF 83 =96 Paris. Please,  email us your request by Sunday March 11 = 2012 along with the following information:
1) Draft title
2) Presenter name
3) Requested duration

Please note that priority will be given to drafts that are clearly within t= he scope of the current L2VPN charter.

Additional key dates to remember are:
2012-03-05 (Monday): Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) subm= ission by 17:00 PT 
2012-03-12 (Monday): Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 17:00 PT&nb= sp;

Please, note that t= he l2vpn WG session is currently scheduled on Thursday March 29 13:00-15:00= Afternoon Session I

Thanks,
Nabil and Giles
= --_000_CB7F4E6F1CA6Dnabilnbitarverizoncom_-- From internet-drafts@ietf.org Sun Mar 11 12:50:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6927A21F872D; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:50:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.568 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.568 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.031, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JiG0WLidNPuY; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:50:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DFC3021F86EA; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:50:34 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-01.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.00 Message-ID: <20120311195034.27680.38965.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 12:50:34 -0700 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2012 19:50:35 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Work= ing Group of the IETF. Title : PBB E-VPN Author(s) : Ali Sajassi Samer Salam Sami Boutros Nabil Bitar Aldrin Isaac Lizhong Jin Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-01.txt Pages : 25 Date : 2012-03-11 This document discusses how Ethernet Provider Backbone Bridging [802.1ah] can be combined with E-VPN in order to reduce the number of BGP MAC advertisement routes by aggregating Customer/Client MAC (C- MAC) addresses via Provider Backbone MAC address (B-MAC), provide client MAC address mobility using C-MAC aggregation and B-MAC sub- netting, confine the scope of C-MAC learning to only active flows, offer per site policies and avoid C-MAC address flushing on topology changes. The combined solution is referred to as PBB-EVPN. Conventions A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-01.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-01.txt From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Sun Mar 11 21:05:53 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A2E521F857A; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:05:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.672 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.672 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.927, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PyoNZIjWz22G; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from szxga01-in.huawei.com (szxga01-in.huawei.com [119.145.14.64]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7ACF621F8578; Sun, 11 Mar 2012 21:05:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (szxga05-in [172.24.2.49]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0M0R0090A7DPFT@szxga05-in.huawei.com>; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:05:49 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxga05-in.huawei.com (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.2 HotFix 2.14 (built Aug 8 2006)) with ESMTP id <0M0R00A5Z7DOG4@szxga05-in.huawei.com>; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:05:49 +0800 (CST) Received: from szxeml212-edg.china.huawei.com ([172.24.2.119]) by szxrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.1.9-GA) with ESMTP id AHT21804; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:05:01 +0800 Received: from SZXEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.153) by szxeml212-edg.china.huawei.com (172.24.2.181) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:04:37 +0800 Received: from SZXEML525-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.71]) by SZXEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.153]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Mon, 12 Mar 2012 12:04:56 +0800 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 04:04:56 +0000 From: Xuxiaohu Subject: fwd: New Version Notification for draft-xu-l2vpn-vpls-isis-03.txt X-Originating-IP: [10.108.4.99] To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" Message-id: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CD186B@szxeml525-mbx.china.huawei.com> MIME-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-language: zh-CN Content-transfer-encoding: base64 Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Thread-topic: New Version Notification for draft-xu-l2vpn-vpls-isis-03.txt Thread-index: AQHNAAMIHCuioWjdJ0ymjBIRI9TFDJZmCXnQ X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "dc@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2012 04:05:53 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpBbiB1cGRhdGVkIHZlcnNpb24gb2YgSVMtSVMgVlBMUyAoaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xz LmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQteHUtbDJ2cG4tdnBscy1pc2lzLTAzKSBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWJt aXR0ZWQuIEEgbWFqb3IgY2hhbmdlIGlzIHRvIGRlc2NyaWJlIHRoZSByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgb2Yg Y2xvdWQgZGF0YSBjZW50ZXIgbmV0d29ya3MgYW5kIHRoZSBtb3RpdmF0aW9ucyBmb3IgSVMtSVMg VlBMUy4NCg0KQW55IGNvbW1lbnRzIGFuZCBzdWdnZXN0aW9ucyBhcmUgYXBwcmVjaWF0ZWQuDQoN CkJlc3QgcmVnYXJkcywNClhpYW9odQ0KDQo+IC0tLS0t6YKu5Lu25Y6f5Lu2LS0tLS0NCj4g5Y+R 5Lu25Lq6OiBpbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNA aWV0Zi5vcmddDQo+IOWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAxMuW5tDPmnIgxMuaXpSAxMTo0OA0KPiDmlLbk u7bkuro6IFh1eGlhb2h1DQo+IOaKhOmAgTogaHNoYWhAY2llbmEuY29tDQo+IOS4u+mimDogTmV3 IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC14dS1sMnZwbi12cGxzLWlzaXMtMDMudHh0 DQo+IA0KPiBBIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQteHUtbDJ2cG4tdnBscy1pc2lzLTAz LnR4dCBoYXMgYmVlbiBzdWNjZXNzZnVsbHkNCj4gc3VibWl0dGVkIGJ5IFhpYW9odSBYdSBhbmQg cG9zdGVkIHRvIHRoZSBJRVRGIHJlcG9zaXRvcnkuDQo+IA0KPiBGaWxlbmFtZToJIGRyYWZ0LXh1 LWwydnBuLXZwbHMtaXNpcw0KPiBSZXZpc2lvbjoJIDAzDQo+IFRpdGxlOgkJIFZpcnR1YWwgUHJp dmF0ZSBMQU4gU2VydmljZSAoVlBMUykgVXNpbmcgSVMtSVMNCj4gQ3JlYXRpb24gZGF0ZToJIDIw MTItMDMtMDkNCj4gV0cgSUQ6CQkgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBTdWJtaXNzaW9uDQo+IE51bWJlciBvZiBw YWdlczogMTENCj4gDQo+IEFic3RyYWN0Og0KPiAgICBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGRlc2NyaWJlcyBh IGxpZ2h0LXdlaWdodCBWaXJ0dWFsIFByaXZhdGUgTEFOIFNlcnZpY2UNCj4gICAgKFZQTFMpLCBy ZWZlcnJlZCB0byBhcyBJUy1JUyBWUExTLCB3aGljaCB1c2VzIElTLUlTIGZvciBhdXRvLQ0KPiAg ICBkaXNjb3ZlcnkgYW5kIHNpZ25hbGluZy4gSVMtSVMgVlBMUyBpcyBpbnRlbmRlZCB0byBiZSB1 c2VkIGFzIGENCj4gICAgc2NhbGFibGUgY2xvdWQgZGF0YSBjZW50ZXIgbmV0d29yayBzb2x1dGlv bi4NCj4gDQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IA0KPiBUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0K From lizho.jin@gmail.com Fri Mar 16 08:03:19 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E784921F8735; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:03:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.315 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.315 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.283, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KygDOVTkmqdv; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:03:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D0F2B21F86B2; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenm5 with SMTP id m5so4870458yen.31 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:03:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=jemDan+3Uv2Bda6S1rHfrTbc/5+AZsWfeO/icFUAgvw=; b=nD5KP3KlyYRr+MuPbvj16sJHUeZgmPaBDYkDE0JC7OSvlyLaTRFxDe9FTLpTb0aZOT fsgSN1JyCjVvUx2bnKV8Hwo/J/RNIs7SOzYgDHcYl6Zkr/qoaPvgBBMP0E+UNlJPBmk4 VAFXi1qHPSddi1K7k54NJKJkOOGjArRv6lYwIb3YGbhVsYzsCEkw7CSaSNlIb8W2bHIs S6krDNlK1xKPMT4+lrrLe0/TRFoy3iXg84/P14nAY1hS27PBGefQvDyXGnA1XPaauPoL urKd0efRnEK7tpFdjNIh2H41VGDFIwtdPRSHmEeIkeXit7M3LlaIArpVHxq5ZDVSg9KK OdJQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.60.7.7 with SMTP id f7mr3419371oea.19.1331910198325; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:03:18 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.39.129 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:03:17 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 23:03:17 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: pwe3 Digest, Vol 95, Issue 11 From: Lizhong Jin To: ssalam@cisco.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8fb1f2fc3e719304bb5d8262 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:03:20 -0000 --e89a8fb1f2fc3e719304bb5d8262 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > > The ICCP draft does assume the use of the pw-redundancy-bit draft. Section > 9.1.3 describes two modes of operation (depending on configuration): > > - When an external AC redundancy mechanism is in use, and is being > synchronized among the PEs via ICCP. In this mode, PW state is not > synchronized via ICCP and the Independent Mode of operation is used for PW > state signaling. This guarantees that the AC and PW states are always in > sync for a given PE (to avoid deadlock). > > - When an external AC redundancy mechanism is not in use, then PW state is > synchronized via ICCP. In this mode, either the Independent mode or the > Master/Slave mode could be used for PW state signaling. > [Lizhong] and if independent mode is applied, the the operator MUST be care to configure same high/low PW priority at two end-points of active/standby PW, otherwise, will result two standby PW. More details are in draft-liu-l2vpn-vpls-inter-domain-redundancy-02 section 5. Regards Lizhong We will add clarifications to that effect in a future revision. Regards, Samer On 12-03-15 4:38 AM, "Daniel Cohn" wrote: > Hi draft-ietf-pwe3-iccp authors and list at large, > > Is there a reason why the ICCP draft does not explicit reference the pw > redundancy draft? It does mention active/standby signaling for the PWs, so > implicitly it seems to assume that the other endpoint is implementing > draft-pw-redundancy-bit, but in that case some details are missing such as > which pw redundancy mode should be used (e.g. master/slave), how PW precedence > should be configured, etc. > > Is this something you plan to add in future revisions? > > Thanks, > > Daniel > > > > _______________________________________________ > pwe3 mailing list > pwe3@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: < http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pwe3/attachments/20120315/91462e58/attachment.htm > ------------------------------ --e89a8fb1f2fc3e719304bb5d8262 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The ICCP draft does assume the us= e of the pw-redundancy-bit draft. Section
9.1.3 describes two modes of o= peration (depending on configuration):

- When an external AC redundancy mechanism is in use, and is being
s= ynchronized among the PEs via ICCP. In this mode, PW state is not
synchr= onized via ICCP and the Independent Mode of operation is used for PW
state signaling. This guarantees that the AC and PW states are always insync for a given PE (to avoid deadlock).

- When an external AC redu= ndancy mechanism is not in use, then PW state is
synchronized via ICCP. = In this mode, either the Independent mode or the
Master/Slave mode could be used for PW state signaling.
[Lizhong] and if independent mode is applied, the the operator MUST be= care to=A0 configure same high/low PW priority at two end-points of active= /standby PW, otherwise, will result=A0two standby PW. More details are=A0in= draft-liu-l2vpn-vpls-inter-domain-redundancy-02 section 5.
=A0
Regards
Lizhong
=A0
=A0

We will add clarifications to that effect in a future revision.
Regards,
Samer


On 12-03-15 4:38 AM, "Daniel Cohn&qu= ot; <DanielC@orckit.com> wr= ote:

> Hi draft-ietf-pwe3-iccp authors and list at large,
>
>= Is there a reason why the ICCP draft does not explicit reference the pw> redundancy draft? It does mention active/standby signaling for the PW= s, so
> implicitly it seems to assume that the other endpoint is implementing<= br>> draft-pw-redundancy-bit, but in that case some details are missing = such as
> which pw redundancy mode should be used (e.g. master/slave)= , how PW precedence
> should be configured, etc.
>
> Is this something you plan = to add in future revisions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel<= br>>
>
>
> ___________________________________________= ____
> pwe3 mailing list
> pwe3@ietf.o= rg
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3

--------= ------ next part --------------
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--e89a8fb1f2fc3e719304bb5d8262-- From lizho.jin@gmail.com Fri Mar 16 08:05:14 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5CCBC21F879E; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:05:14 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.35 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.35 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.248, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EyLvASEF5emj; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-yx0-f172.google.com (mail-yx0-f172.google.com [209.85.213.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 30F5621F8623; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:05:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: by yenm5 with SMTP id m5so4872915yen.31 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:05:12 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=dSdRdW94PGpQ5ZHjbPfbz3mYLMPSYdk+JtYQTXLdL0I=; b=rjdIAG4TfJv1uDxCo97maHvDnkq1Q39pfk4GnjEvmoTnOcgRlOuyBKjcJA+cFubvoQ Fnpi12fYOoV+cIgi2GRyJ3y6pBMbbTDDi/fy5E+mjenlPFg77k/x7uNcBUJNlwiA8P// x/1ijIbJJYlLUGoZNxCzzad8KmE9oYPIiGwGb9ufx3T+4XurzVmZh1WeZZwO2eEhbauR 3x6UnD6eOsudCVESdtSA/WAlnFUXcPFVKdyOsvS0NZ5EH5Er3LGgif50nwd5/N8R9GD8 zHsQMJ2dOMH8F+sK239PxI79sBaRblwxLQlnp1YzpNAH0X2XHDvcQVbfXohtwOpRLnsP Yn6A== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.147.35 with SMTP id th3mr3435563obb.29.1331910312723; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.60.39.129 with HTTP; Fri, 16 Mar 2012 08:05:12 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 23:05:12 +0800 Message-ID: Subject: Re: [PWE3] draft-ietf-pwe3-iccp interaction with draft-pw-redundancy-bit From: Lizhong Jin To: ssalam@cisco.com Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=f46d0444005410068e04bb5d89ee Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, pwe3@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2012 15:05:14 -0000 --f46d0444005410068e04bb5d89ee Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Sorry, send again with correct mail subject. Lizhong 2012/3/16 Lizhong Jin > >> The ICCP draft does assume the use of the pw-redundancy-bit draft. Section >> 9.1.3 describes two modes of operation (depending on configuration): >> >> - When an external AC redundancy mechanism is in use, and is being >> synchronized among the PEs via ICCP. In this mode, PW state is not >> synchronized via ICCP and the Independent Mode of operation is used for PW >> state signaling. This guarantees that the AC and PW states are always in >> sync for a given PE (to avoid deadlock). >> >> - When an external AC redundancy mechanism is not in use, then PW state is >> synchronized via ICCP. In this mode, either the Independent mode or the >> Master/Slave mode could be used for PW state signaling. >> > [Lizhong] and if independent mode is applied, the the operator MUST be > care to configure same high/low PW priority at two end-points of > active/standby PW, otherwise, will result two standby PW. More details > are in draft-liu-l2vpn-vpls-inter-domain-redundancy-02 section 5. > > Regards > Lizhong > > > > We will add clarifications to that effect in a future revision. > > Regards, > Samer > > > On 12-03-15 4:38 AM, "Daniel Cohn" wrote: > > > Hi draft-ietf-pwe3-iccp authors and list at large, > > > > Is there a reason why the ICCP draft does not explicit reference the pw > > redundancy draft? It does mention active/standby signaling for the PWs, > so > > implicitly it seems to assume that the other endpoint is implementing > > draft-pw-redundancy-bit, but in that case some details are missing such > as > > which pw redundancy mode should be used (e.g. master/slave), how PW > precedence > > should be configured, etc. > > > > Is this something you plan to add in future revisions? > > > > Thanks, > > > > Daniel > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pwe3 mailing list > > pwe3@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3 > > -------------- next part -------------- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: < > http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/pwe3/attachments/20120315/91462e58/attachment.htm > > > > ------------------------------ > --f46d0444005410068e04bb5d89ee Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry, send again with correct mail subject.
=A0
Lizhong

2012/3/16 Lizhong Jin <lizho.jin@gmail.com>

The ICCP draft does assume the us= e of the pw-redundancy-bit draft. Section
9.1.3 describes two modes of o= peration (depending on configuration):

- When an external AC redundancy mechanism is in use, and is being
s= ynchronized among the PEs via ICCP. In this mode, PW state is not
synchr= onized via ICCP and the Independent Mode of operation is used for PW
state signaling. This guarantees that the AC and PW states are always insync for a given PE (to avoid deadlock).

- When an external AC redu= ndancy mechanism is not in use, then PW state is
synchronized via ICCP. = In this mode, either the Independent mode or the
Master/Slave mode could be used for PW state signaling.
[Lizhong] and if independent mode is applied, the the operator MUST be= care to=A0 configure same high/low PW priority at two end-points of active= /standby PW, otherwise, will result=A0two standby PW. More details are=A0in= draft-liu-l2vpn-vpls-inter-domain-redundancy-02 section 5.
=A0
Regards
Lizhong
=A0
=A0

We will add clarifications to that effect in a future revision.
Regards,
Samer


On 12-03-15 4:38 AM, "Daniel Cohn&qu= ot; <DanielC@orc= kit.com> wrote:

> Hi draft-ietf-pwe3-iccp authors and list at large,
>
>= Is there a reason why the ICCP draft does not explicit reference the pw> redundancy draft? It does mention active/standby signaling for the PW= s, so
> implicitly it seems to assume that the other endpoint is implementing<= br>> draft-pw-redundancy-bit, but in that case some details are missing = such as
> which pw redundancy mode should be used (e.g. master/slave)= , how PW precedence
> should be configured, etc.
>
> Is this something you plan = to add in future revisions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Daniel<= br>>
>
>
> ___________________________________________= ____
> pwe3 mailing list
> pwe3@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/pwe3

-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrub= bed...
URL: <http://www.iet= f.org/mail-archive/web/pwe3/attachments/20120315/91462e58/attachment.htm>

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--f46d0444005410068e04bb5d89ee-- From nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com Mon Mar 19 05:33:32 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F49E21F862F for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 05:33:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.777 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.777 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.821, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZPLbY1ypFnPM for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 05:33:31 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fldsmtpe01.verizon.com (fldsmtpe01.verizon.com [140.108.26.140]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5A3B21F8505 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 05:33:30 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: false Received: from unknown (HELO fldsmtpi02.verizon.com) ([166.68.71.144]) by fldsmtpe01.verizon.com with ESMTP; 19 Mar 2012 12:33:29 +0000 From: "Bitar, Nabil N" X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.73,611,1325462400"; d="scan'208,217";a="238976264" Received: from fldp1lumxc7hb01.verizon.com (HELO FLDP1LUMXC7HB01.us.one.verizon.com) ([166.68.45.78]) by fldsmtpi02.verizon.com with ESMTP; 19 Mar 2012 12:33:28 +0000 Received: from fldp1lumxc7v63.us.one.verizon.com ([169.254.3.123]) by FLDP1LUMXC7HB01.us.one.verizon.com ([166.68.45.78]) with mapi; Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:33:28 -0400 To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 08:33:28 -0400 Subject: Re: Reminder: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris Thread-Topic: Reminder: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris Thread-Index: Ac0FzHyqUHwBT7kFSauCZUjtrIAwyQ== Message-ID: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.10.0.110310 acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_CB8CA0A6238F5nabilnbitarverizoncom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: Giles Heron X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2012 12:33:32 -0000 --_000_CB8CA0A6238F5nabilnbitarverizoncom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, The draft agenda was uploaded lastWednesday. Please, check it out and let u= s know if you still have a slot request by 4PM EST today as the final agend= a has to be uploaded today by 8PM EST. Thanks, Nabil & Giles From: "Bitar, Nabil N" > Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 06:04:26 -0500 To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" > Cc: Giles Heron > Subject: Reminder: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris Hi, A friendly reminder and per email below, please let us know if you have a = slot request and you have not sent us a request already. Thanks, Nabil From: "Bitar, Nabil N" > Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:48:35 -0500 To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" > Cc: Giles Heron > Subject: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Paris Hi L2VPN WG. Please let us know if you have a time-slot request for the L2VPN session at= IETF 83 =96 Paris. Please, email us your request by Sunday March 11 2012 = along with the following information: 1) Draft title 2) Presenter name 3) Requested duration Please note that priority will be given to drafts that are clearly within t= he scope of the current L2VPN charter. Additional key dates to remember are: 2012-03-05 (Monday): Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) subm= ission by 17:00 PT 2012-03-12 (Monday): Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 17:00 PT Please, note that the l2vpn WG session is currently scheduled on Thursday M= arch 29 13:00-15:00 Afternoon Session I Thanks, Nabil and Giles --_000_CB8CA0A6238F5nabilnbitarverizoncom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi,
The draft agenda = was uploaded lastWednesday. Please, check it out and let us know if you sti= ll have a slot request by 4PM EST today as the final agenda has to be uploa= ded today by 8PM EST.

Thanks,
Nabil &= ; Giles

From: "Bitar, Nabil N" <nabil.n.bitar@one.verizon.com>
Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2012 06:04:26 -0500
To: "l2vpn@ie= tf.org" <l2vpn@ietf.org&g= t;
Cc: Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>
Subject: Reminder: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call = for IETF 83 - Paris

=
Hi,
A friendly reminder and  per email below, please le= t us know if you have a slot request and you have not sent us a request alr= eady. 

Thanks,
Nabil

=

From: &q= uot;Bitar, Nabil N" <nabil.n.bitar@one.verizon.com>
Date: Mon, 27 Feb 2012 06:48:35 -0500
To: "l2vpn@ietf.org= " <l2vpn@ietf.org>
= Cc: Giles Heron <giheron@cisco.com>
Subject: [l2vpn] L2VPN Agenda Slot Call for IETF 83 - Par= is


Hi L2VPN WG.
Please let us know if you have a time-slot request for the L2VPN session at= IETF 83 =96 Paris. Please,  email us your request by Sunday March 11 = 2012 along with the following information:
1) Draft title
2) Presenter name
3) Requested duration

Please note that priority will be given to drafts that are clearly within t= he scope of the current L2VPN charter.

Additional key dates to remember are:
2012-03-05 (Monday): Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) subm= ission by 17:00 PT 
2012-03-12 (Monday): Internet Draft final submission cut-off by 17:00 PT&nb= sp;

Please, note that t= he l2vpn WG session is currently scheduled on Thursday March 29 13:00-15:00= Afternoon Session I

Thanks,
Nabil and Giles
=
--_000_CB8CA0A6238F5nabilnbitarverizoncom_-- From vishwas.ietf@gmail.com Thu Mar 22 11:46:35 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FF5C21F8526 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.889 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.889 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.291, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IThHA6Besi4p for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ob0-f172.google.com (mail-ob0-f172.google.com [209.85.214.172]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9879421F856A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by obbtb4 with SMTP id tb4so1985196obb.31 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :cc:content-type; bh=veV6lsUKgpOm7ECnu6Qco2z8bGHHUghhuaCL2xKhZ8I=; b=w/9oSDeCmoRfU7NT/UR/sbrrVj6WmmXClxXsEu6opi6mY6RJvv20gUcv3UpBt5t/Iq +VlkPxTk0U7PufWjaiDy8buoVKcReZgBQnWFn8sMqEKqvTS7AtRFiuN5zCHme5665i2w zW7oXxeU/mrKRyKzJdmexVLzc5EmkRKjF6qz08IF5olzqRwzzRkbkj7MkmEeZXoeRzgT xs3f0kFx46U+LDuORmfWWGB7nWhT8ThCWsU/pKqc473ndR2BGcFCu7OTSwwoEg6bW/uI q83Uey112iibqA0FTnuAtzMGLXIVO4QhkVObQSqc01Cf/bYTZaeKEoRstg4L21b+1QHA DKNQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: by 10.182.179.68 with SMTP id de4mr11568038obc.13.1332441994187; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.182.134.73 with HTTP; Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:34 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20120306025330.14849.56792.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 11:46:34 -0700 Message-ID: Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-davie-stt-01.txt From: Vishwas Manral To: Bruce Davie Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=e89a8f6433a0bf51a104bbd953e3 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2012 18:46:35 -0000 --e89a8f6433a0bf51a104bbd953e3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Hi Guys, I wrote some analysis on what STT may mean and how it compares to other overlay technologies - VxLAN/ NVGRE/ PBB etc. http://h30507.www3.hp.com/t5/HP-Networking/Stateless-Transport-Tunneling-STT-Yet-another-cloud/ba-p/109559 Comments are very welcome. Thanks, Vishwas On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Bruce Davie wrote: > This draft may be of interest to the WG, and we have asked the chairs for > a chance to present it in Paris. > > Regards, > Bruce Davie > > Begin forwarded message: > > *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org > *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-davie-stt-01.txt* > *Date: *March 5, 2012 6:53:30 PM PST > *To: *bsd@nicira.com > *Cc: *jesse@nicira.com > > A new version of I-D, draft-davie-stt-01.txt has been successfully > submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository. > > Filename: draft-davie-stt > Revision: 01 > Title: A Stateless Transport Tunneling Protocol for Network > Virtualization (STT) > Creation date: 2012-03-05 > WG ID: Individual Submission > Number of pages: 19 > > Abstract: > Network Virtualization places unique requirements on tunneling > protocols. This draft describes STT (Stateless Transport Tunneling), > a tunnel encapsulation that enables overlay networks to be built in > virtualized networks. STT is particularly useful when some tunnel > endpoints are in end-systems, as it utilizes the capabilities of the > network interface card to improve performance. > > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > > --e89a8f6433a0bf51a104bbd953e3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Guys,

I wrote some analysis on what STT may mean and how it compa= res to other overlay technologies - VxLAN/ NVGRE/ PBB etc.
http://h30507.www3.hp.com/t5/HP-Networking/S= tateless-Transport-Tunneling-STT-Yet-another-cloud/ba-p/109559

Comments are very welcome.

Thanks,
Vishwas

On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 11:24 AM, Bruce Davie <bdavie@mit.edu> wr= ote:
This dra= ft may be of interest to the WG, and we have asked the chairs for a chance = to present it in Paris.

Regards,
Bruce Davie

Begin forwar= ded message:

Subject: New Version Notification for draft= -davie-stt-01.txt
Date: March 5, 2012 6:53:30 PM PST
<= /div>
A new version of I-D, draft-davie-stt-01.txt has been= successfully submitted by Bruce Davie and posted to the IETF repository.
Filename: draft-davie-st= t
Revision: 01
Title: = A Stateless Transport Tunneling Protocol for Network Virtualization= (STT)
Creation date: 2012-03-05
W= G ID: Individual Submission
Number of pages: 19

Ab= stract:
=A0=A0Network Virtualization places unique requirements on tunneling
= =A0=A0protocols. =A0This draft describes STT (Stateless Transport Tunneling= ),
=A0=A0a tunnel encapsulation that enables overlay networks to be bui= lt in
=A0=A0virtualized networks. =A0STT is particularly useful when so= me tunnel
=A0=A0endpoints are in end-systems, as it utilizes the capabilities of the=
=A0=A0network interface card to improve performance.



The IETF Secretariat


--e89a8f6433a0bf51a104bbd953e3-- From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Thu Mar 29 06:00:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB8F921F8AD9 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:00:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.547, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Nidop-NSADW5 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 38CC521F8A29 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 06:00:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.2.3-GA FastPath) with ESMTP id AEM27409; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 09:00:42 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DFWEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.131) by dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.107) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 05:58:36 -0700 Received: from SZXEML432-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.60) by dfweml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.131) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 05:58:41 -0700 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.158]) by SZXEML432-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.60]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:58:36 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/sw== Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:58:35 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.24.1.69] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959szxeml525mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 13:00:46 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959szxeml525mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQoNCg0KVlBMUyAoVmlydHVhbCBQcml2YXRlIExBTiBTZXJ2aWNlKSBoYXMgZGlm ZmVyZW50IHVuZGVyc3RhbmRpbmdzIGZvciBkaWZmZXJlbnQgcGVvcGxlLCBzb21lIHBlb3BsZSB0 aGluayBpdCBhcyBhIHNlcnZpY2Ugd2hpbGUgb3RoZXJzICB0aGluayBpdCBhcyBhIGNvbmNyZXRl IHRlY2hub2xvZ3ksIGVzcGVjaWFsbHkgdXNpbmcgUFdzLiBIZXJlLCB0aGUgIlZQTFMiIGlzIGRl ZW1lZCBhcyBhIFZQTFMgc2VydmljZS4gSWYgdGhlIFdHIGNvbnNlbnN1cyBpcyB0aGF0ICJWUExT IiBzaG91bGQgYmUgdGFrZW4gYXMgYSBjb25jcmV0ZSB0ZWNobm9sb2d5LCAgSSBoYXZlIG5vIG9i amVjdGlvbiB0byB1c2luZyBhbm90aGVyIHRlcm0uDQoNCg0KDQpBcyBzYWlkIGluIHRoZSBJUy1J UyBWUExTIGRyYWZ0LCBJUy1JUyBWUExTIGlzIGludGVuZGVkIHRvIGJlIGEgbGlnaHQtd2VpZ2h0 IFZQTFMgc29sdXRpb24gd2hpY2ggY2FuIG1lZXQgc29tZSBEQyBvcGVyYXRvcnMnIHJlcXVpcmVt ZW50cyBmb3Igc2ltcGxpY2l0eS4gSSBkb24ndCB3YW50IHRvIGFyZ3VlIGluIHRoaXMgbWFpbGlu Zy1saXN0IHdoZXRoZXIgQkdQLWJhc2VkIEwyVlBOIHNvbHV0aW9ucyBjb3VsZCBtZWV0IHdlbGwg dGhlIHJlcXVpcmVtZW50cyBmcm9tIGFsbCBEQyBvcGVyYXRvcnMuIEkgcGVyc29uYWxseSBiZWxp ZXZlIHRoYXQgaXQgd291bGQgYmUgYmV0dGVyIHRvIGFzayB0aGlzIHF1ZXN0aW9uIHRvIE5WbzMu IEluIGFkZGl0aW9uLCBhY2NvcmRpbmcgdG8gdG9kYXkncyBwcmVzZW50YXRpb24gb2YgRS1WUE4s IEkgdGhpbmsgRS1WUE4gY28tYXV0aG9ycyBhbHNvIGFkbWl0IHRoYXQgdGhlIGV4aXRpbmcgRVZQ TiBzb2x1dGlvbiBzZWVtcyBjb21wbGV4IHRvIHNvbWUgREMgb3BlcmF0b3JzLiBJZiBteSB1bmRl cnN0YW5kaW5nIGlzIHdyb25nLCBwbHMgY29ycmVjdCBtZS4NCg0KDQoNCklmIEkgcmVtZW1iZXJl ZCBjb3JyZWN0bHksIEwxVlBOIGFsc28gaGFzIHR3byBSRkNzIHVzaW5nIElTLUlTIGFuZCBPU1BG IGZvciBMMVZQTiBhdXRvLWRpc2NvdmVyeSwgYWx0aG91Z2ggdGhlcmUgaGFzIGJlZW4gb25lIHNv bHV0aW9uIHVzaW5nIEJHUC4gSGVuY2UgSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IHdoeSBjYW4ndCB3ZSBoYXZlIGEg bGlnaHQtd2VpZ2h0IEwyVlBOIHVzaW5nIElTLUlTLg0KDQoNCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0KDQpY aWFvaHUNCg0KDQo= --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959szxeml525mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all,

 

VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for= different people, some people think it as a service while others &nbs= p;think it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "= VPLS" is deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be taken as a concrete technology,  I= have no objection to using another term.

 

As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be = a light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' requirements= for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list whether BGP-bas= ed L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better t= o ask this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's present= ation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN s= olution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is wrong, pls correct me.

 

If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and = OSPF for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one soluti= on using BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VP= N using IS-IS.

 

Best regards,

Xiaohu

 

--_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959szxeml525mbschi_-- From sajassi@cisco.com Thu Mar 29 10:55:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10E9C21F8911 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:55:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.743 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.743 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.141, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a1B7VwiglZfU for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:55:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-1.cisco.com (mtv-iport-1.cisco.com [173.36.130.12]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 000D021E804C for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:55:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=sajassi@cisco.com; l=6017; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1333043723; x=1334253323; h=date:subject:from:to:message-id:in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=681ekMMpkFJ3kh+QLyCKdOB0PMQmR24vV+LKVy9kuyk=; b=NmgbiTxsZYfOg8hIKrytPgx6Cw5joME4doEka/+rb9YFbOsQvWeUBO5P MY4yGYjQtkHlg8nag2HAExux6Q/5fcpQUxQsor3egVW66DEFN+A/OHIib 47gffd8r3xKOVjvfaSyEfGZJmelBd+4MNuHN2GuioTjMQ9qfUUJ7elc6H 4=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFAJChdE+rRDoH/2dsb2JhbABFgka1VneBB4IJAQEBAwESASoxEA0BCAQFgRQCBAESGweHYwQBnCWfLJEfBIglM4Uqh1+ORoFogwc X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,669,1330905600"; d="scan'208,217";a="35128242" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by mtv-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 29 Mar 2012 17:55:22 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-231.cisco.com [128.107.191.100]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2THtMtC002382; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:55:22 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-22d.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.68]) by xbh-sjc-231.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:55:22 -0700 Received: from 10.21.72.150 ([10.21.72.150]) by xmb-sjc-22d.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.68]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:55:22 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.32.0.111121 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 10:55:21 -0700 Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS From: sajassi To: Xuxiaohu , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBjuBS In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: multipart/alternative; boundary="B_3415863321_2605689" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2012 17:55:22.0665 (UTC) FILETIME=[1CD6D990:01CD0DD5] X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 17:55:26 -0000 > This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. --B_3415863321_2605689 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable It seems like this draft keeps reincarnating itself. Last rev. of this draf= t was at least consistent in terms of vpls-data plane operation, this rev of the draft has no resemblance to VPLS (RFC 4761 or 4762). It uses neither control-plane specified in those RFCs nor data-plane specified in those RFC= s !! If you remember a year and half ago, we had the same situation when we proposed E-VPN family of solutions and that=B9s why L2VPN went through the re-chartering to allow specifically this new kind of solution. I think if this draft needs to be pursued in L2VPN WG, then L2VPN WG needs to go through the same re-chartering exercise to call out this family of solution explicitly. BTW, a year and half ago, when the chairs poll the group regarding how many have read the drafts and how many think it should be pursued in this WG, AFAI recall the number was around 30 in both cases. Today, when the chairs poll the group on these questions, there were a dozen of hands on reading the draft but only couple of hands in support the draft. -Ali On 3/29/12 5:58 AM, "Xuxiaohu" wrote: > Hi all, >=20 > =20 >=20 > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for diffe= rent > people, some people think it as a service while others think it as a con= crete > technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is deemed as a VPLS > service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be taken as a concrete > technology, I have no objection to using another term. >=20 > =20 >=20 > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a light-wei= ght > VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' requirements for simplici= ty. I > don't want to argue in this mailing-list whether BGP-based L2VPN solution= s > could meet well the requirements from all DC operators. I personally beli= eve > that it would be better to ask this question to NVo3. In addition, accord= ing > to today's presentation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit tha= t the > exiting EVPN solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understan= ding > is wrong, pls correct me. >=20 > =20 >=20 > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF f= or > L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using BGP. Hen= ce I > don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-IS. >=20 > =20 >=20 > Best regards, >=20 > Xiaohu >=20 > =20 >=20 --B_3415863321_2605689 Content-type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS
It seems like this draft keeps reincarnating itself. Last rev. of this draf= t was at least consistent in terms of vpls-data plane operation, this rev of= the draft has no resemblance to VPLS (RFC 4761 or 4762). It uses neither co= ntrol-plane specified in those RFCs nor data-plane specified in those RFCs != !

If you remember a year and half ago, we had the same situation when we prop= osed E-VPN family of solutions and that’s why L2VPN went through the r= e-chartering to allow  specifically this new kind of solution.

I think if this draft needs to be pursued in L2VPN WG, then L2VPN WG needs = to go through the same re-chartering exercise to call out this family of sol= ution explicitly.

BTW, a year and half ago, when the chairs poll the group regarding how many= have read the drafts and how many think it should be pursued in this WG, AF= AI recall the number was around 30 in both cases. Today, when the chairs pol= l the group on these questions, there were a dozen of hands on reading the d= raft but only couple of hands in support the draft.

-Ali


On 3/29/12 5:58 AM, "Xuxiaohu" <= xuxiaohu@huawei.com> wrote:

Hi all,

 

VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for differe= nt people, some people think it as a service while others  think it as = a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is d= eemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should= be taken as a concrete technology,  I have no objection to using anoth= er term.

 

As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a light-weigh= t VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' requirements for simplicit= y. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list whether BGP-based L2VPN soluti= ons could meet well the requirements from all DC operators. I personally bel= ieve that it would be better to ask this question to NVo3. In addition, acco= rding to today's presentation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit = that the exiting EVPN solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my und= erstanding is wrong, pls correct me.

 

If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF for= L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using BGP. Hence= I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-IS.

 

Best regards,

Xiaohu

 

--B_3415863321_2605689-- From ju1738@att.com Thu Mar 29 11:30:26 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B01A21F87D6 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:30:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nhQNCJLUQmq7 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com [209.65.160.84]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 714B621E80CE for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:30:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) with ESMTP id d3aa47f4.67e4b940.49138.00-589.140809.nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:30:21 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74aa3d7e92ea3b-f99b675659db5c1233f4c551cfcea46a80b3614d Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 93aa47f4.0.49129.00-451.140773.nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:30:18 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74aa3a5823113b-b0dd2bbd6d1501cba4b85278884b686cd41ae018 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TIUGXq017764; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:30:17 -0400 Received: from sflint02.pst.cso.att.com (sflint02.pst.cso.att.com [144.154.234.229]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TIU8NU017666 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:30:10 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9C.ITServices.sbc.com (misout7msghub9c.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.82]) by sflint02.pst.cso.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:29:39 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.1.12]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9C.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.82]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:29:39 -0400 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "'Xuxiaohu'" , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQ Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:29:38 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.121.202] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550FAB6701MISOUT7MSGUSR9IIT_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-RSA-Action: allow X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-AnalysisOut: [v=1.0 c=1 a=NTMUfDyyvlwA:10 a=0cQrbQDqE-4A:10 a=ofMgfj31e3] X-AnalysisOut: [cA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=ZRNLZ4dFUbCvG8UMqPvVAA==:17 a=48] X-AnalysisOut: [vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=IkvoW371CAqIe5zSJfcA:9 a=IhwPBeMdV3n4bXNohr] X-AnalysisOut: [QA:7 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=yMhMjlubAAAA:8 ] X-AnalysisOut: [a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=auWi2KburzJxgyYi4fMA:9 a=mcLsSLdXcqXihC] X-AnalysisOut: [fs7rIA:7 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10] X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:30:26 -0000 --_000_B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550FAB6701MISOUT7MSGUSR9IIT_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so overwhelmin= gly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why is that?? BG= P is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and is proven. I bel= ieve that the data center is becoming more and more a dynamic extension of = a customer's network. I also think it would be wise to anticipate the world= of tomorrow where customers may expect their network may span multiple ope= rators DCs. The right approach is to leverage what has been done BGP and e= xtend it where needed.. This provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is in= valid.. Jim Uttaro From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of X= uxiaohu Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi all, VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for differe= nt people, some people think it as a service while others think it as a co= ncrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is deemed as a VP= LS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be taken as a concret= e technology, I have no objection to using another term. As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a light-weigh= t VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' requirements for simplici= ty. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list whether BGP-based L2VPN solu= tions could meet well the requirements from all DC operators. I personally = believe that it would be better to ask this question to NVo3. In addition, = according to today's presentation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also a= dmit that the exiting EVPN solution seems complex to some DC operators. If = my understanding is wrong, pls correct me. If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF for= L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using BGP. Henc= e I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-IS. Best regards, Xiaohu --_000_B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550FAB6701MISOUT7MSGUSR9IIT_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

IMHO… I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BG= P is so overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.= . Why is that??  BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and is proven. I believe that = the data center is becoming more and more a dynamic extension of a customer= ’s network. I also think it would be wise to anticipate the world of = tomorrow where customers may expect their network may span multiple operators DCs.  The right approach is to le= verage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This provides ma= ximum flexibility and simplicity..

 

To build solutions based on the notion that “I donR= 17;t like protocol X” is invalid..

 

Jim Uttaro

 

From: l2vpn-bo= unces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM
To: l2vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS

 

Hi all,

 

VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different=  understandings for different people, some people think it as a s= ervice while others  think it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is deemed as a VPLS service. If the = WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be taken as a concrete technol= ogy,  I have no objection to using another term.

 

As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS=  is intended to be a light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC= operators' requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the re= quirements from all DC operators. I personally believe that it would b= e better to ask this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today= 's presentation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN solution seems complex to some DC operato= rs. If my understanding is wrong, pls correct me.

 

If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RF= Cs using IS-IS and OSPF for L1VPN auto-discovery, although t= here has been one solution using BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-IS.

 

Best regards,

Xiaohu

 

--_000_B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550FAB6701MISOUT7MSGUSR9IIT_-- From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Thu Mar 29 12:00:21 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B0BA921F8764; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:00:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.767 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.767 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.283, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pzMxgj3AjmAZ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:00:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9974321F876A; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:00:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.2.3-GA FastPath) with ESMTP id AEM49068; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:00:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DFWEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.203) by dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.108) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:58:41 -0700 Received: from SZXEML435-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.63) by dfweml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.203) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 11:58:37 -0700 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.158]) by szxeml435-hub.china.huawei.com ([::1]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:58:30 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogUmVzcG9uc2UgdG8gc29tZSBjb21tZW50cyBvbiBJUy1JUyBWUExT?= Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAEvmE= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:58:30 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0BAA@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.24.1.68] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0BAAszxeml525mbschi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:00:21 -0000 --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0BAAszxeml525mbschi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 QXMgZm9yIHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIEJHUC1iYXNlZCBMMlZQTiBzb2x1dGlvbiBpcyBhY2NlcHRhYmxl IGZvciBtb3N0IGNsb3VkIERDIG9wZXJhdG9ycywgSSB0aGluayBkaWZmZXJlbnQgcGVvcGxlIHdv dWxkIGhhdmUgZGlmZmVyZW50IG9waW5pb25zLg0KDQpTaW5jZSB0aGUgYWJvdmUgdG9waWMgbWF5 IGJlIGludGVyZXN0aW5nIHRvIE5WbzMgQm9GIGFuZCBiZSB3b3J0aHdoaWxlIGZvciBmdXJ0aGVy IGRpc2N1c3Npb24gYmVmb3JlIHRoZSBJRVNHIGFwcHJvdmFsIG9mIE5WbzMsIEkgY29weSB0aGlz IGVtYWlsIHRvIE5WbzMgZm9yIGZ1cnRoZXIgZGlzY3Vzc2lvbi4NCg0KQmVzdCByZWdhcmRzLA0K WGlhb2h1DQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0Kt6K8/sjLOiBVVFRBUk8s IEpBTUVTIFtqdTE3MzhAYXR0LmNvbV0NCreiy83KsbzkOiAyMDEyxOoz1MIzMMjVIDI6MjkNCrW9 OiBYdXhpYW9odTsgbDJ2cG5AaWV0Zi5vcmcNCtb3zOI6IFJFOiBSZXNwb25zZSB0byBzb21lIGNv bW1lbnRzIG9uIElTLUlTIFZQTFMNCg0KSU1IT6GtIEkgYW0gYXQgYSBiaXQgb2YgYSBsb3NzIGFz IHRvIHRoZSBub3Rpb24gdGhhdCBCR1AgaXMgc28gb3ZlcndoZWxtaW5nbHkgZGlmZmljdWx0IHRv IGRlYWwgd2l0aCBpbiBhIGRhdGEgY2VudGVyIGVudmlyb25tZW50Li4gV2h5IGlzIHRoYXQ/PyAg QkdQIGlzIGJlaW5nIHVzZWQgYWNyb3NzIGEgd2lkZSBzcGVjdHJ1bSBvZiBhcHBsaWNhdGlvbnMg YW5kIGlzIHByb3Zlbi4gSSBiZWxpZXZlIHRoYXQgdGhlIGRhdGEgY2VudGVyIGlzIGJlY29taW5n IG1vcmUgYW5kIG1vcmUgYSBkeW5hbWljIGV4dGVuc2lvbiBvZiBhIGN1c3RvbWVyoa9zIG5ldHdv cmsuIEkgYWxzbyB0aGluayBpdCB3b3VsZCBiZSB3aXNlIHRvIGFudGljaXBhdGUgdGhlIHdvcmxk IG9mIHRvbW9ycm93IHdoZXJlIGN1c3RvbWVycyBtYXkgZXhwZWN0IHRoZWlyIG5ldHdvcmsgbWF5 IHNwYW4gbXVsdGlwbGUgb3BlcmF0b3JzIERDcy4gIFRoZSByaWdodCBhcHByb2FjaCBpcyB0byBs ZXZlcmFnZSB3aGF0IGhhcyBiZWVuIGRvbmUgQkdQIGFuZCBleHRlbmQgaXQgd2hlcmUgbmVlZGVk Li4gVGhpcyBwcm92aWRlcyBtYXhpbXVtIGZsZXhpYmlsaXR5IGFuZCBzaW1wbGljaXR5Li4NCg0K VG8gYnVpbGQgc29sdXRpb25zIGJhc2VkIG9uIHRoZSBub3Rpb24gdGhhdCChsEkgZG9uoa90IGxp a2UgcHJvdG9jb2wgWKGxIGlzIGludmFsaWQuLg0KDQpKaW0gVXR0YXJvDQoNCkZyb206IGwydnBu LWJvdW5jZXNAaWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzpsMnZwbi1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBCZWhh bGYgT2YgWHV4aWFvaHUNClNlbnQ6IFRodXJzZGF5LCBNYXJjaCAyOSwgMjAxMiAyOjU5IFBNDQpU bzogbDJ2cG5AaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IFJlc3BvbnNlIHRvIHNvbWUgY29tbWVudHMgb24g SVMtSVMgVlBMUw0KDQoNCkhpIGFsbCwNCg0KDQoNClZQTFMgKFZpcnR1YWwgUHJpdmF0ZSBMQU4g U2VydmljZSkgaGFzIGRpZmZlcmVudCB1bmRlcnN0YW5kaW5ncyBmb3IgZGlmZmVyZW50IHBlb3Bs ZSwgc29tZSBwZW9wbGUgdGhpbmsgaXQgYXMgYSBzZXJ2aWNlIHdoaWxlIG90aGVycyAgdGhpbmsg aXQgYXMgYSBjb25jcmV0ZSB0ZWNobm9sb2d5LCBlc3BlY2lhbGx5IHVzaW5nIFBXcy4gSGVyZSwg dGhlICJWUExTIiBpcyBkZWVtZWQgYXMgYSBWUExTIHNlcnZpY2UuIElmIHRoZSBXRyBjb25zZW5z dXMgaXMgdGhhdCAiVlBMUyIgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHRha2VuIGFzIGEgY29uY3JldGUgdGVjaG5vbG9n eSwgIEkgaGF2ZSBubyBvYmplY3Rpb24gdG8gdXNpbmcgYW5vdGhlciB0ZXJtLg0KDQoNCg0KQXMg c2FpZCBpbiB0aGUgSVMtSVMgVlBMUyBkcmFmdCwgSVMtSVMgVlBMUyBpcyBpbnRlbmRlZCB0byBi ZSBhIGxpZ2h0LXdlaWdodCBWUExTIHNvbHV0aW9uIHdoaWNoIGNhbiBtZWV0IHNvbWUgREMgb3Bl cmF0b3JzJyByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZm9yIHNpbXBsaWNpdHkuIEkgZG9uJ3Qgd2FudCB0byBhcmd1 ZSBpbiB0aGlzIG1haWxpbmctbGlzdCB3aGV0aGVyIEJHUC1iYXNlZCBMMlZQTiBzb2x1dGlvbnMg Y291bGQgbWVldCB3ZWxsIHRoZSByZXF1aXJlbWVudHMgZnJvbSBhbGwgREMgb3BlcmF0b3JzLiBJ IHBlcnNvbmFsbHkgYmVsaWV2ZSB0aGF0IGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIGJldHRlciB0byBhc2sgdGhpcyBx dWVzdGlvbiB0byBOVm8zLiBJbiBhZGRpdGlvbiwgYWNjb3JkaW5nIHRvIHRvZGF5J3MgcHJlc2Vu dGF0aW9uIG9mIEUtVlBOLCBJIHRoaW5rIEUtVlBOIGNvLWF1dGhvcnMgYWxzbyBhZG1pdCB0aGF0 IHRoZSBleGl0aW5nIEVWUE4gc29sdXRpb24gc2VlbXMgY29tcGxleCB0byBzb21lIERDIG9wZXJh dG9ycy4gSWYgbXkgdW5kZXJzdGFuZGluZyBpcyB3cm9uZywgcGxzIGNvcnJlY3QgbWUuDQoNCg0K DQpJZiBJIHJlbWVtYmVyZWQgY29ycmVjdGx5LCBMMVZQTiBhbHNvIGhhcyB0d28gUkZDcyB1c2lu ZyBJUy1JUyBhbmQgT1NQRiBmb3IgTDFWUE4gYXV0by1kaXNjb3ZlcnksIGFsdGhvdWdoIHRoZXJl IGhhcyBiZWVuIG9uZSBzb2x1dGlvbiB1c2luZyBCR1AuIEhlbmNlIEkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyB3aHkg Y2FuJ3Qgd2UgaGF2ZSBhIGxpZ2h0LXdlaWdodCBMMlZQTiB1c2luZyBJUy1JUy4NCg0KDQoNCkJl c3QgcmVnYXJkcywNCg0KWGlhb2h1DQoNCg0K --_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0BAAszxeml525mbschi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: UTTARO, JAMES [ju1738@= att.com]
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2012=C4=EA3=D4=C230=C8=D5 2:29
=B5=BD: Xuxiaohu; l2vpn@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS

IMHO=A1=AD I am at a bit of a loss as to t= he notion that BGP is so overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data ce= nter environment.. Why is that??  BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and is proven. I believe= that the data center is becoming more and more a dynamic extension of a cu= stomer=A1=AFs network. I also think it would be wise to anticipate the worl= d of tomorrow where customers may expect their network may span multiple operators DCs.  The right approach is= to leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This provi= des maximum flexibility and simplicity..

 

To build solutions based on the notion tha= t =A1=B0I don=A1=AFt like protocol X=A1=B1 is invalid..

 

Jim Uttaro

 

From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@i= etf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu
Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM
To: l2vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS

 

Hi all,

 

VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandi= ngs for different people, some people think it as a service while othe= rs  think it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is deemed as a VPLS service. If the = WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be taken as a concrete technol= ogy,  I have no objection to using another term.

 

As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended= to be a light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' requi= rements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the= requirements from all DC operators. I personally believe that it woul= d be better to ask this question to NVo3. In addition, according to to= day's presentation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN solution seems complex to some= DC operators. If my understanding is wrong, pls correct me.

 

If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-= IS and OSPF for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one= solution using BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-IS.

 

Best regards,

Xiaohu

 

--_000_1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0BAAszxeml525mbschi_-- From jdrake@juniper.net Thu Mar 29 12:52:27 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A0CE21F85E1 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:52:27 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.052 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.052 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.946, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nuZ7oIpEZTsM for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:52:25 -0700 (PDT) Received: from exprod7og124.obsmtp.com (exprod7og124.obsmtp.com [64.18.2.26]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 70C7221F8796 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:52:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([66.129.224.36]) (using TLSv1) by exprod7ob124.postini.com ([64.18.6.12]) with SMTP ID DSNKT3S9dveLRgqm1e0W66SGR3c/V6lAt+1r@postini.com; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:52:24 PDT Received: from EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::c821:7c81:f21f:8bc7]) by P-EMHUB01-HQ.jnpr.net ([fe80::fc92:eb1:759:2c72%11]) with mapi; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:50:38 -0700 From: John E Drake To: "UTTARO, JAMES" , 'Xuxiaohu' , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 12:50:36 -0700 Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAXd5A= Message-ID: <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404EMBX01HQjnprn_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:52:27 -0000 --_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404EMBX01HQjnprn_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jim, You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. I.e., = it's *fun* to say that everything that has gone before sucks and that the c= urrent initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary Poppins'). Thanks, John Sent from my iPhone From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of U= TTARO, JAMES Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM To: 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so overwhelmin= gly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why is that?? BG= P is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and is proven. I bel= ieve that the data center is becoming more and more a dynamic extension of = a customer's network. I also think it would be wise to anticipate the world= of tomorrow where customers may expect their network may span multiple ope= rators DCs. The right approach is to leverage what has been done BGP and e= xtend it where needed.. This provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is in= valid.. Jim Uttaro From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-b= ounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi all, VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for differe= nt people, some people think it as a service while others think it as a co= ncrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is deemed as a VP= LS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be taken as a concret= e technology, I have no objection to using another term. As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a light-weigh= t VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' requirements for simplici= ty. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list whether BGP-based L2VPN solu= tions could meet well the requirements from all DC operators. I personally = believe that it would be better to ask this question to NVo3. In addition, = according to today's presentation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also a= dmit that the exiting EVPN solution seems complex to some DC operators. If = my understanding is wrong, pls correct me. If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF for= L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using BGP. Henc= e I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-IS. Best regards, Xiaohu --_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404EMBX01HQjnprn_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Jim,=

 

You are completely correct , but let’s not = overlook the fun factor.  I.e., it’s *fun* to say that ev= erything that has gone before sucks and that the current initiative will be=  “practically perfect” (c.f. ‘Mary Poppins’).=

 <= /p>

Thanks,

 

John=

 <= /p>

Sent from my iPhone

 

From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bo= unces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of UTTARO, JAMES
Sent: Thursday,= March 29, 2012 11:30 AM
To: 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org
Sub= ject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS

=

 

= IMHO… I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so = overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why is= that??  BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and = is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a dynam= ic extension of a customer’s network. I also think it would be wise t= o anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their network= may span multiple operators DCs.  The right approach is to leverage w= hat has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This provides maximum fl= exibility and simplicity..

 

To build solution= s based on the notion that “I don’t like protocol X” is i= nvalid..

 =

Jim Uttaro

 

From: l2vpn-bounces@ie= tf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@= ietf.org] On Behalf Of Xuxiaohu
Sent: Thursday, March = 29, 2012 2:59 PM
To: l2vpn@ietf= .org
Subject: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS

 

Hi all,

 

VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for d= ifferent people, some people think it as a service while others  = think it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VP= LS" is deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPL= S" should be taken as a concrete technology,  I have no objection= to using another term.

 

As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intend= ed to be a light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' req= uirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list whethe= r BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from all DC op= erators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask this ques= tion to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of E-VPN,= I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN solution seems c= omplex to some DC operators. If my understanding is wrong, pls correct= me.

 

If I re= membered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF = for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using B= GP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS= -IS.

 

Best re= gards,

Xiaohu

 = ;

= --_000_5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404EMBX01HQjnprn_-- From robert@raszuk.net Thu Mar 29 14:33:58 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C233821F85CE for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:33:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.217 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.217 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.218, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Ui34Lo56CZGP for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:33:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1310.opentransfer.com (mail1310.opentransfer.com [76.162.254.103]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E681F21F8514 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 14:33:57 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 18910 invoked by uid 399); 29 Mar 2012 21:33:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?10.0.1.4?) (pbs:robert@raszuk.net@79.141.15.165) by mail1310.opentransfer.com with ESMTPM; 29 Mar 2012 21:33:57 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 79.141.15.165 Message-ID: <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:33:59 +0200 From: Robert Raszuk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: John E Drake Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> In-Reply-To: <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert@raszuk.net List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:33:58 -0000 Hi John, I think you took it a little bit too far. I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the community. Best, R. > Jim, > > You are completely correct , but let’s not overlook the fun factor. > I.e., it’s **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and > that the current initiative will be “practically perfect” (c.f. ‘Mary > Poppins’). > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *UTTARO, JAMES > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM > *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > IMHO… I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so > overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why > is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and > is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a > dynamic extension of a customer’s network. I also think it would be wise > to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their > network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to > leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This > provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. > > To build solutions based on the notion that “I don’t like protocol X” is > invalid.. > > Jim Uttaro > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM > *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi all, > > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for > different people, some people think it as a service while others think > it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is > deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be > taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another term. > > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a > light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' > requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list > whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from > all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask > this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of > E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN > solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is > wrong, pls correct me. > > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF > for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using > BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-IS. > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > From prvs=943539688f=hshah@ciena.com Thu Mar 29 15:24:44 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 28C0221F872A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:24:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.462 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.462 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.203, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CeNlkSFK5T-E for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:24:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com [67.231.144.234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D5BA21F86F9 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:24:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0000419 [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q2TMK19g021008; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:24:34 -0400 Received: from mdwexght01.ciena.com (LIN1-118-36-28.ciena.com [63.118.36.28]) by mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 13vxfqga26-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:24:34 -0400 Received: from MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com ([::1]) by MDWEXGHT01.ciena.com ([::1]) with mapi; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:24:34 -0400 From: "Shah, Himanshu" To: "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:24:31 -0400 Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0N86nwh9mR27aNTnOhH2efAxsWEAAAdeKg Message-ID: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> In-Reply-To: <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.0.0.1412-6.800.1017-18806.002 x-tm-as-result: No--43.530700-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7498, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-03-29_06:2012-03-28, 2012-03-29, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=1 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1203120001 definitions=main-1203290274 Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:24:44 -0000 I agree completely. BGP based solution has its application but by no means that translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing=20 any solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a=20 non-BGP based solution? /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of R= obert Raszuk Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM To: John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi John, I think you took it a little bit too far. I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also=20 did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have=20 heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this=20 is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to=20 promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in=20 experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited=20 set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to=20 IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now=20 when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info=20 TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known=20 destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for=20 it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the=20 community. Best, R. > Jim, > > You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. > I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and > that the current initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary > Poppins'). > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *UTTARO, JAMES > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM > *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so > overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why > is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and > is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a > dynamic extension of a customer's network. I also think it would be wise > to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their > network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to > leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This > provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. > > To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is > invalid.. > > Jim Uttaro > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM > *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi all, > > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for > different people, some people think it as a service while others think > it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is > deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be > taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another term= . > > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a > light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' > requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list > whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from > all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask > this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of > E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN > solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is > wrong, pls correct me. > > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF > for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using > BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-I= S. > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > From ju1738@att.com Thu Mar 29 15:33:31 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 49C7A21F874F for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:33:31 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.200, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id DX7JeezugRxp for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo04.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo04.seg.att.com [209.65.160.86]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 572F521F8750 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:33:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo04.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo04.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) with ESMTP id a33e47f4.2aaad6616940.158169.00-571.449739.nbfkord-smmo04.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:33:30 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74e33a6c7acc13-0dd035ef5e221459c35e26aa04e0c37b75bb7877 Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo04.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 633e47f4.0.158158.00-355.449696.nbfkord-smmo04.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:33:27 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74e3372edcd7c6-4a04f3edefaf5cfcf48beda676de9657c26892b8 Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TMXQrU032002; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:33:26 -0400 Received: from sflint02.pst.cso.att.com (sflint02.pst.cso.att.com [144.154.234.229]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TMXGTW031846 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:33:18 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9C.ITServices.sbc.com (misout7msghub9c.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.82]) by sflint02.pst.cso.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:32:44 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.1.12]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9C.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.82]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:32:44 -0400 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "'Shah, Himanshu'" , "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0N86nwo12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/swAAdeKgAAFVkXA= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:32:43 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.121.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-RSA-Action: allow X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-AnalysisOut: [v=1.0 c=1 a=NTMUfDyyvlwA:10 a=0cQrbQDqE-4A:10 a=ofMgfj31e3] X-AnalysisOut: [cA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ZRNLZ4dFUbCvG8] X-AnalysisOut: [UMqPvVAA==:17 a=FmoMKUsJAAAA:8 a=2clOPd4PAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mU] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=V4spOhrBIKy4TAFvllgA:9 a=pHwR17O7nqMi1qfGHcwA:7 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=AopqHHen_-cA:10 a=bDUki_mJ7DgA:10 a=lZB] X-AnalysisOut: [815dzVvQA:10 a=kIeGiSxstajGs6lA:21 a=hUMkJtDtcJ2x542b:21] Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:33:31 -0000 Hmmm.. You still haven't said why the BGP solution does not meet your reqs.= I believe BGP is fundamental in terms of a) Proven Technology, b) Well kno= wn Interface with customer VPNs etc.... I have no issue if this is a scienc= e project more power but I don't think you are making a good case with the = statement "I Don't Like Protocol X" so I am creating a different paradigm..= If there are other reasons to consider this approach I would like to see/u= nderstand them.. Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:25 PM To: robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS I agree completely. BGP based solution has its application but by no means that translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing=20 any solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a=20 non-BGP based solution? /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of R= obert Raszuk Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM To: John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi John, I think you took it a little bit too far. I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also=20 did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have=20 heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this=20 is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to=20 promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in=20 experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited=20 set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to=20 IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now=20 when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info=20 TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known=20 destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for=20 it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the=20 community. Best, R. > Jim, > > You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. > I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and > that the current initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary > Poppins'). > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *UTTARO, JAMES > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM > *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so > overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why > is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and > is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a > dynamic extension of a customer's network. I also think it would be wise > to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their > network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to > leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This > provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. > > To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is > invalid.. > > Jim Uttaro > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM > *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi all, > > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for > different people, some people think it as a service while others think > it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is > deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be > taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another term= . > > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a > light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' > requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list > whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from > all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask > this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of > E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN > solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is > wrong, pls correct me. > > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF > for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using > BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-I= S. > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > From prvs=943539688f=hshah@ciena.com Thu Mar 29 15:39:10 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2FD721E800E for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:39:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.495 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.495 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.169, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KJsZC8f0hxbv for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:39:09 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com [67.231.144.234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A8CC821F84E7 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:39:08 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0000419 [127.0.0.1]) by mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com (8.14.4/8.14.4) with SMTP id q2TMZQ6b017420; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:39:03 -0400 Received: from mdwexght02.ciena.com (LIN1-118-36-29.ciena.com [63.118.36.29]) by mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com with ESMTP id 13vxfqgat3-1 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NOT); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:39:01 -0400 Received: from MDWEXGMB02.ciena.com ([::1]) by MDWEXGHT02.ciena.com ([::1]) with mapi; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:39:01 -0400 From: "Shah, Himanshu" To: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:38:58 -0400 Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0N86nwo12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/swAAdeKgAAFVkXAAAEyjoA== Message-ID: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.0.0.1412-6.800.1017-18806.002 x-tm-as-result: No--44.454100-8.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: No x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=fsecure engine=2.50.10432:5.6.7498, 1.0.260, 0.0.0000 definitions=2012-03-29_06:2012-03-28, 2012-03-29, 1970-01-01 signatures=0 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=notspam policy=default score=0 spamscore=0 ipscore=0 suspectscore=1 phishscore=0 bulkscore=0 adultscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=6.0.2-1203120001 definitions=main-1203290279 Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:39:10 -0000 Perhaps it would have benefited if you attended the NVO3 BoF where sentimen= ts from Data Center Operators (first or secondhand) were expressed who clearly is looking for a solution. BGP based VPLS did not app= ear to be the winning choice. /himanshu=20 -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:33 PM To: Shah, Himanshu; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hmmm.. You still haven't said why the BGP solution does not meet your reqs.= I believe BGP is fundamental in terms of a) Proven Technology, b) Well kno= wn Interface with customer VPNs etc.... I have no issue if this is a scienc= e project more power but I don't think you are making a good case with the = statement "I Don't Like Protocol X" so I am creating a different paradigm..= If there are other reasons to consider this approach I would like to see/u= nderstand them.. Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:25 PM To: robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS I agree completely. BGP based solution has its application but by no means that translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing=20 any solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a=20 non-BGP based solution? /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of R= obert Raszuk Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM To: John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi John, I think you took it a little bit too far. I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also=20 did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have=20 heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this=20 is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to=20 promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in=20 experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited=20 set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to=20 IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now=20 when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info=20 TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known=20 destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for=20 it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the=20 community. Best, R. > Jim, > > You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. > I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and > that the current initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary > Poppins'). > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *UTTARO, JAMES > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM > *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so > overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why > is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and > is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a > dynamic extension of a customer's network. I also think it would be wise > to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their > network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to > leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This > provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. > > To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is > invalid.. > > Jim Uttaro > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM > *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi all, > > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for > different people, some people think it as a service while others think > it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is > deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be > taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another term= . > > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a > light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' > requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list > whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from > all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask > this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of > E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN > solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is > wrong, pls correct me. > > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF > for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using > BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-I= S. > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > From ju1738@att.com Thu Mar 29 15:43:00 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15A8021F858A for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:43:00 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.149 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.149 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.150, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id HDar6z1uEX76 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com [209.65.160.84]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 122A121F84F3 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:42:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) with ESMTP id 375e47f4.2aaad0813940.160691.00-596.456966.nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:42:59 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74e5730f237210-b5c635a2adac96dbcc214ac71ae2735bfa728ef2 Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id c65e47f4.0.160651.00-382.456834.nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:42:53 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74e56d23f1ef17-9c405ffa019e0ceb94a19d3362ba3b0fb6b3688f Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TMgqU4004107; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:42:52 -0400 Received: from sflint01.pst.cso.att.com (sflint01.pst.cso.att.com [144.154.234.228]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TMgo8k004104 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:42:51 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.ITServices.sbc.com (misout7msghub9d.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.93]) by sflint01.pst.cso.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:42:15 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.1.12]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.93]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:42:15 -0400 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "'Shah, Himanshu'" , "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0N86nwo12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/swAAdeKgAAFVkXAAAEyjoAAAL/mg Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:42:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.121.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-RSA-Action: allow X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-AnalysisOut: [v=1.0 c=1 a=NTMUfDyyvlwA:10 a=0cQrbQDqE-4A:10 a=ofMgfj31e3] X-AnalysisOut: [cA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ZRNLZ4dFUbCvG8] X-AnalysisOut: [UMqPvVAA==:17 a=FmoMKUsJAAAA:8 a=2clOPd4PAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mU] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=1IP7icI5c0fllIM_f3gA:9 a=qyMulju] X-AnalysisOut: [6zfk08JaekPIA:7 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=AopqHHen_-cA:10 a=bDUk] X-AnalysisOut: [i_mJ7DgA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=Hz7IrDYlS0cA:10 a=p5CUJIu6] X-AnalysisOut: [b9kuNTkS:21 a=OxVwgqldDXl6RvZa:21] Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:43:00 -0000 Ok. Can you expand on why that is? If not you, can anyone explain why L2VPN= Family of services VPLS, EVPN etc..it is not being considered? Jim Uttaro BTW.. I did attend and thus my e-mails.. The first few slides said somethin= g to the effect " We don't like BGP". Ok, so can you or someone share why t= hat is.. -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:39 PM To: UTTARO, JAMES; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Perhaps it would have benefited if you attended the NVO3 BoF where sentimen= ts from Data Center Operators (first or secondhand) were expressed who clearly is looking for a solution. BGP based VPLS did not app= ear to be the winning choice. /himanshu=20 -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:33 PM To: Shah, Himanshu; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hmmm.. You still haven't said why the BGP solution does not meet your reqs.= I believe BGP is fundamental in terms of a) Proven Technology, b) Well kno= wn Interface with customer VPNs etc.... I have no issue if this is a scienc= e project more power but I don't think you are making a good case with the = statement "I Don't Like Protocol X" so I am creating a different paradigm..= If there are other reasons to consider this approach I would like to see/u= nderstand them.. Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:25 PM To: robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS I agree completely. BGP based solution has its application but by no means that translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing=20 any solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a=20 non-BGP based solution? /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of R= obert Raszuk Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM To: John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi John, I think you took it a little bit too far. I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also=20 did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have=20 heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this=20 is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to=20 promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in=20 experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited=20 set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to=20 IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now=20 when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info=20 TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known=20 destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for=20 it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the=20 community. Best, R. > Jim, > > You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. > I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and > that the current initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary > Poppins'). > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *UTTARO, JAMES > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM > *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so > overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why > is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and > is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a > dynamic extension of a customer's network. I also think it would be wise > to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their > network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to > leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This > provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. > > To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is > invalid.. > > Jim Uttaro > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM > *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi all, > > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for > different people, some people think it as a service while others think > it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is > deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be > taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another term= . > > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a > light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' > requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list > whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from > all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask > this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of > E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN > solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is > wrong, pls correct me. > > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF > for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using > BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-I= S. > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > From ju1738@att.com Thu Mar 29 15:46:46 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5088421F85C3 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:46:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -106.119 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-106.119 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.120, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id w+ghkrCYyMBq for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com [209.65.160.84]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3DCB721F8557 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:46:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) with ESMTP id 556e47f4.5a235940.161898.00-580.460245.nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:46:45 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74e6556aa53099-7854efbc2d3b795e8e65e86d29c33766a50af500 Received: from unknown [144.160.20.145] (EHLO mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com) by nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.11.0-8) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 056e47f4.0.161875.00-346.460181.nbfkord-smmo03.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:46:41 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 4f74e6517331b8a1-0c7f99a1bfe33074796bb025ba7eb708d5f5703c Received: from enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TMkehx005940; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:46:40 -0400 Received: from sflint02.pst.cso.att.com (sflint02.pst.cso.att.com [144.154.234.229]) by mlpd192.enaf.sfdc.sbc.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id q2TMkZYk005894 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:46:35 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9A.ITServices.sbc.com (misout7msghub9a.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.62]) by sflint02.pst.cso.att.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:46:09 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.1.12]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9A.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.62]) with mapi id 14.01.0355.002; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:46:09 -0400 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "'Shah, Himanshu'" , "'robert@raszuk.net'" , "'John E Drake'" Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0N86nwo12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/swAAdeKgAAFVkXAAAEyjoAAAL/mgAAAys5A= Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:46:08 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.121.202] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-RSA-Action: allow X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.20.145] X-AnalysisOut: [v=1.0 c=1 a=NTMUfDyyvlwA:10 a=0cQrbQDqE-4A:10 a=ofMgfj31e3] X-AnalysisOut: [cA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=ZRNLZ4dFUbCvG8] X-AnalysisOut: [UMqPvVAA==:17 a=2clOPd4PAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=FmoMKUsJ] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=1IP7icI5c0fllIM_f3gA:9 a=1YW3hoJ] X-AnalysisOut: [vmFcYSwK3sJYA:7 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=bDUki_mJ7DgA:10 a=lZB8] X-AnalysisOut: [15dzVvQA:10 a=AopqHHen_-cA:10 a=Hz7IrDYlS0cA:10 a=Ga7dtunW] X-AnalysisOut: [fiQ2EJ5i:21 a=TEI3CBVPsg2Qi3xY:21] Cc: "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:46:46 -0000 BTW... I am looking for a solution too.. This is a firsthand request -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:42 PM To: 'Shah, Himanshu'; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Ok. Can you expand on why that is? If not you, can anyone explain why L2VPN= Family of services VPLS, EVPN etc..it is not being considered? Jim Uttaro BTW.. I did attend and thus my e-mails.. The first few slides said somethin= g to the effect " We don't like BGP". Ok, so can you or someone share why t= hat is.. -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:39 PM To: UTTARO, JAMES; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Perhaps it would have benefited if you attended the NVO3 BoF where sentimen= ts from Data Center Operators (first or secondhand) were expressed who clearly is looking for a solution. BGP based VPLS did not app= ear to be the winning choice. /himanshu=20 -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:33 PM To: Shah, Himanshu; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hmmm.. You still haven't said why the BGP solution does not meet your reqs.= I believe BGP is fundamental in terms of a) Proven Technology, b) Well kno= wn Interface with customer VPNs etc.... I have no issue if this is a scienc= e project more power but I don't think you are making a good case with the = statement "I Don't Like Protocol X" so I am creating a different paradigm..= If there are other reasons to consider this approach I would like to see/u= nderstand them.. Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:25 PM To: robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS I agree completely. BGP based solution has its application but by no means that translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing=20 any solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a=20 non-BGP based solution? /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of R= obert Raszuk Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM To: John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi John, I think you took it a little bit too far. I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also=20 did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have=20 heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this=20 is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to=20 promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in=20 experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited=20 set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to=20 IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now=20 when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info=20 TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known=20 destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for=20 it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the=20 community. Best, R. > Jim, > > You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. > I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and > that the current initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary > Poppins'). > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *UTTARO, JAMES > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM > *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so > overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why > is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and > is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a > dynamic extension of a customer's network. I also think it would be wise > to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their > network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to > leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This > provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. > > To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is > invalid.. > > Jim Uttaro > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM > *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi all, > > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for > different people, some people think it as a service while others think > it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is > deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be > taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another term= . > > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a > light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' > requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list > whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from > all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask > this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of > E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN > solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is > wrong, pls correct me. > > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF > for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using > BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-I= S. > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > From joel.pauling@alcatel-lucent.com Thu Mar 29 15:48:45 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 34DE721E8013 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:48:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.649 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.649 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cvUgb7bnsnbj for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:48:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail2.alcatel.fr (smail2.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.57]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F16E621F84D5 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 15:48:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.63]) by smail2.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id q2TMma9S028623 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:48:36 +0200 Received: from FRMRSSXCHMBSA1X.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.66]) by FRMRSSXCHHUB03.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.63]) with mapi; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:48:36 +0200 From: "PAULING, JOEL (JOEL)" To: "UTTARO, JAMES" Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:48:35 +0200 Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0N86nwo12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/swAAdeKgAAFVkXAAAEyjoAAAL/mgAAAys5AAAB+JTg== Message-ID: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.80 Cc: "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" , "'robert@raszuk.net'" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2012 22:48:45 -0000 Open flow ? "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: BTW... I am looking for a solution too.. This is a firsthand request -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:42 PM To: 'Shah, Himanshu'; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Ok. Can you expand on why that is? If not you, can anyone explain why L2VPN= Family of services VPLS, EVPN etc..it is not being considered? Jim Uttaro BTW.. I did attend and thus my e-mails.. The first few slides said somethin= g to the effect " We don't like BGP". Ok, so can you or someone share why t= hat is.. -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:39 PM To: UTTARO, JAMES; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Perhaps it would have benefited if you attended the NVO3 BoF where sentimen= ts from Data Center Operators (first or secondhand) were expressed who clearly is looking for a solution. BGP based VPLS did not app= ear to be the winning choice. /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:33 PM To: Shah, Himanshu; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hmmm.. You still haven't said why the BGP solution does not meet your reqs.= I believe BGP is fundamental in terms of a) Proven Technology, b) Well kno= wn Interface with customer VPNs etc.... I have no issue if this is a scienc= e project more power but I don't think you are making a good case with the = statement "I Don't Like Protocol X" so I am creating a different paradigm..= If there are other reasons to consider this approach I would like to see/u= nderstand them.. Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:25 PM To: robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS I agree completely. BGP based solution has its application but by no means that translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing any solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a non-BGP based solution? /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of R= obert Raszuk Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM To: John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Hi John, I think you took it a little bit too far. I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the community. Best, R. > Jim, > > You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. > I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and > that the current initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary > Poppins'). > > Thanks, > > John > > Sent from my iPhone > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf > Of *UTTARO, JAMES > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM > *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so > overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why > is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and > is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a > dynamic extension of a customer's network. I also think it would be wise > to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their > network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to > leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This > provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. > > To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is > invalid.. > > Jim Uttaro > > *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu > *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM > *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi all, > > VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for > different people, some people think it as a service while others think > it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is > deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be > taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another term= . > > As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a > light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' > requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list > whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from > all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask > this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of > E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN > solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is > wrong, pls correct me. > > If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF > for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using > BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-I= S. > > Best regards, > > Xiaohu > From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Thu Mar 29 23:54:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C062421E808C; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:54:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.165 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.165 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.039, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oazi5Niv0tTM; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:54:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 693CD21E8083; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:54:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.2.3-GA FastPath) with ESMTP id AEM84366; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:54:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DFWEML407-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.132) by dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.108) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:52:17 -0700 Received: from SZXEML439-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.74) by dfweml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.132) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Thu, 29 Mar 2012 23:52:13 -0700 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.158]) by szxeml439-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.74]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 14:52:10 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Subject: re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAXd5D//5jvgIABHOVp Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:52:09 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0CAE@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net>, <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> In-Reply-To: <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.24.1.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 06:54:17 -0000 DQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCreivP7IyzogUm9i ZXJ0IFJhc3p1ayBbcm9iZXJ0QHJhc3p1ay5uZXRdDQq3osvNyrG85DogMjAxMsTqM9TCMzDI1SA1 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aW5nDQo+IEJHUC4gSGVuY2UgSSBkb24ndCBrbm93IHdoeSBjYW4ndCB3ZSBoYXZlIGEgbGlnaHQt d2VpZ2h0IEwyVlBOIHVzaW5nIElTLUlTLg0KPg0KPiBCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+DQo+IFhpYW9o dQ0KPg== From internet-drafts@ietf.org Fri Mar 30 00:18:51 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A912721E80A5; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:18:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.469 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.469 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.130, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mm6lMLWf7ysn; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:18:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1CADD21E8015; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:18:51 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-req-00.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.00 Message-ID: <20120330071851.14720.37451.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:18:51 -0700 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:18:51 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Work= ing Group of the IETF. Title : Requirements for Ethernet VPN (E-VPN) Author(s) : Ali Sajassi Samer Salam Clarence Filsfils Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-req-00.txt Pages : 12 Date : 2012-03-30 The widespread adoption of Ethernet L2VPN services and the advent of new applications for the technology (e.g. data center interconnect) have culminated in a new set of requirements that are not readily addressable by the current VPLS solution. In particular, multi- homing with all-active forwarding is not supported and there's no existing solution to leverage MP2MP LSPs for optimizing the delivery of multi-destination frames. Furthermore, the provisioning of VPLS, even in the context of BGP-based auto-discovery, requires network operators to specify various network parameters on top of the access configuration. This document specifies the requirements for an Ethernet VPN (E-VPN) solution which addresses the above issues. A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-req-00.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-req-00.txt From robert@raszuk.net Fri Mar 30 00:30:55 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 87C3A21F8753 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:30:55 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.834 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.834 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.165, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id csN1deL292HF for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:30:54 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1310.opentransfer.com (mail1310.opentransfer.com [76.162.254.103]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B2B0421F8767 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:30:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 15512 invoked by uid 399); 30 Mar 2012 07:30:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?130.129.22.61?) (pbs:robert@raszuk.net@130.129.22.61) by mail1310.opentransfer.com with ESMTPM; 30 Mar 2012 07:30:52 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 130.129.22.61 Message-ID: <4F75612F.5070604@raszuk.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:30:55 +0200 From: Robert Raszuk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "PAULING, JOEL (JOEL)" Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert@raszuk.net List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:30:55 -0000 Joel, > Open flow ? Let me point out that OpenFlow is not an enemy of BGP. OpenFlow requires a control plane to function. As a matter of fact I have been working recently on design of OpenFlow based network (fully OF as well as integrated with traditional/legacy) with services including Internet, L2 and L3 VPNs. Use of commercial of the shelf BGP code has proven to help and functions well. Integration with existing L3VPN is very easy. For NVO3 the issue of dislike of BGP is I think quite well understood. Tenant isolation should start as close to the tenant VMs as possible which normally places it at hypervisor. Talking openflow good news is that most linux distributions will include OVS (open virtual switch) very soon. Placing the boundary in the host would normally mean that host need to understand BGP. That is quite a challenge and hardly needed overhead. We have proposals to talk xmpp to the host or openflow to the OVS there. The most important is that I think that most of us agree that control and data plane separation in any case is a good approach. To summarize I don't see a reason to bound control plane innovation to BGP. Also I would like to observe that choice of control plane protocol does not automatically translates into the choice of data plane technology to be used in given network. Rgs, R. > Open flow ? > > "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: > > > BTW... I am looking for a solution too.. This is a firsthand request > > -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES Sent: Thursday, March > 29, 2012 6:42 PM To: 'Shah, Himanshu'; robert@raszuk.net; John E > Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on > IS-IS VPLS > > Ok. Can you expand on why that is? If not you, can anyone explain why > L2VPN Family of services VPLS, EVPN etc..it is not being considered? > > Jim Uttaro > > BTW.. I did attend and thus my e-mails.. The first few slides said > something to the effect " We don't like BGP". Ok, so can you or > someone share why that is.. > > -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu > [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:39 PM To: > UTTARO, JAMES; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Perhaps it would have benefited if you attended the NVO3 BoF where > sentiments from Data Center Operators (first or secondhand) were > expressed who clearly is looking for a solution. BGP based VPLS did > not appear to be the winning choice. > > /himanshu > > -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES > [mailto:ju1738@att.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:33 PM To: > Shah, Himanshu; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hmmm.. You still haven't said why the BGP solution does not meet your > reqs. I believe BGP is fundamental in terms of a) Proven Technology, > b) Well known Interface with customer VPNs etc.... I have no issue if > this is a science project more power but I don't think you are making > a good case with the statement "I Don't Like Protocol X" so I am > creating a different paradigm.. If there are other reasons to > consider this approach I would like to see/understand them.. > > Jim Uttaro > > -----Original Message----- From: Shah, Himanshu > [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:25 PM To: > robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES > Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > I agree completely. > > BGP based solution has its application but by no means that > translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? > > Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing any > solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a non-BGP > based solution? > > /himanshu > > -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org > [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: > Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM To: John E Drake Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; > UTTARO, JAMES Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi John, > > I think you took it a little bit too far. > > I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I > also did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I > have heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP > for VPLS. > > Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as > this is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. > > However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to > promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in > experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to > limited set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek > alternatives to IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. > Especially now when control plane separation from data plane becomes > reality. > > I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS > Info TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known > destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking > for it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results > to the community. > > Best, R. > > >> Jim, >> >> You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun >> factor. I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone >> before sucks and that the current initiative will be "practically >> perfect" (c.f. 'Mary Poppins'). >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On >> Behalf Of *UTTARO, JAMES *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM >> *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org *Subject:* RE: Response to some >> comments on IS-IS VPLS >> >> IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so >> overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center >> environment.. Why is that?? BGP is being used across a wide >> spectrum of applications and is proven. I believe that the data >> center is becoming more and more a dynamic extension of a >> customer's network. I also think it would be wise to anticipate the >> world of tomorrow where customers may expect their network may span >> multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to leverage what has >> been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This provides maximum >> flexibility and simplicity.. >> >> To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol >> X" is invalid.. >> >> Jim Uttaro >> >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu *Sent:* >> Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM *To:* >> l2vpn@ietf.org *Subject:* Response to some >> comments on IS-IS VPLS >> >> Hi all, >> >> VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings >> for different people, some people think it as a service while >> others think it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. >> Here, the "VPLS" is deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus >> is that "VPLS" should be taken as a concrete technology, I have no >> objection to using another term. >> >> As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a >> light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' >> requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this >> mailing-list whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the >> requirements from all DC operators. I personally believe that it >> would be better to ask this question to NVo3. In addition, >> according to today's presentation of E-VPN, I think E-VPN >> co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN solution seems complex >> to some DC operators. If my understanding is wrong, pls correct >> me. >> >> If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and >> OSPF for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution >> using BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight >> L2VPN using IS-IS. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Xiaohu >> > > > From thomas.morin@orange.com Fri Mar 30 00:48:52 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A81B521F87D3 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:48:52 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.829 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.829 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.180, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 6FfRp78gag56 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 00:48:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com (r-mail2.rd.francetelecom.com [217.108.152.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 599EE21F876D for ; Fri, 30 Mar 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Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:49:14 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0OSYlIX7euvT8lR+WhZCUyyLKEng== References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2012 07:48:47.0242 (UTC) FILETIME=[89E3C6A0:01CD0E49] X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 07:48:52 -0000 T2suIFZQTFMsIEJHUCBvciBMRFAgYmFzZWQgZG9lcyBub3QgYXBwZWFyIHRvIGJlIHRoZSB3aW5u aW5nIGNob2ljZSBmb3IgDQp0aGUgREMsIGFuZCBzbyBzb21lIHBlb3BsZSBsb29rIGZvciBhbm90 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14.01.0323.003; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:11:59 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "thomas.morin@orange.com" , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Subject: re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAXd5D//5jvgIAADh+AgAACSoCAAAG/AIAAmb8AgACK0Fk= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:11:58 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0D26@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.24.1.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Organization: France Telecom Orange User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 Content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:19:30 +0200 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0D26@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0OTcItq5MDBGCtTeywo1ePDdjqug== References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0959@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> <5E893DB832F57341992548CDBB333163A56D761404@EMBX01-HQ.jnpr.net> <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0D26@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> From: To: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2012 08:19:00.0848 (UTC) FILETIME=[C2E21700:01CD0E4D] Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: 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PiA+DQo= From prvs=9436b2e2d1=hshah@ciena.com Fri Mar 30 01:22:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A9A8121F8824 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:22:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.52 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.52 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.145, BAYES_00=-2.599, IP_NOT_FRIENDLY=0.334, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RhcFS0qCprv5 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:21:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com (mx0a-00103a01.pphosted.com [67.231.144.234]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4E28121F882D for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:21:56 -0700 (PDT) Received: from pps.filterd (m0000419 [127.0.0.1]) by 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PiBCZXN0IHJlZ2FyZHMsDQo+Pg0KPj4gWGlhb2h1DQo+Pg0K From wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com Fri Mar 30 01:31:13 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E7C721F886B for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:31:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.209 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.209 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.440, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FFzooGUBa3Hm for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smail6.alcatel.fr (smail6.alcatel.fr [64.208.49.42]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4011A21F886A for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:31:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com (FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com [135.120.45.64]) by smail6.alcatel.fr (8.14.3/8.14.3/ICT) with ESMTP id q2U8UbtL019029 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=RC4-MD5 bits=128 verify=NOT); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:31:07 +0200 Received: from FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.42]) by FRMRSSXCHHUB04.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.120.45.64]) with mapi; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:30:39 +0200 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: "'hshah@ciena.com'" , "'thomas.morin@orange.com'" , "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:30:38 +0200 Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0OSYlIX7euvT8lR+WhZCUyyLKEngAA9C+AAACCIYI= Message-ID: <14C7F4F06DB5814AB0DE29716C4F6D67E275E87B@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-NL, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: acceptlanguage: nl-NL, en-US Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.69 on 155.132.188.84 X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:31:13 -0000 Have you looked at spbm and see what is wring with this? You can run it ove= r ip pw if you want. Cheers, Wim _________________ sent from blackberry ----- Original Message ----- From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 10:21 AM=0A= To: thomas.morin@orange.com ; l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Agree. ISIS based solution is a proposal, once we dive into understanding t= he requirements better, ISIS based solution may appeal more.. (note dropping the word VPLS... :-) /himanshu -----Original Message----- From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of t= homas.morin@orange.com Sent: Friday, March 30, 2012 3:49 AM To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Ok. VPLS, BGP or LDP based does not appear to be the winning choice for=20 the DC, and so some people look for another solution than these (e.g.=20 NVO3). Among these people some may "dislike" BGP options, but until we=20 formulate precisely why, we won't be able to progress (besides, it of=20 course does not mean that they necessarily want ISIS-based VPLS). -Thomas Shah, Himanshu : > Perhaps it would have benefited if you attended the NVO3 BoF where sentim= ents from Data Center Operators (first or secondhand) were > expressed who clearly is looking for a solution. BGP based VPLS did not a= ppear to be the winning choice. > > /himanshu > > -----Original Message----- > From: UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:33 PM > To: Shah, Himanshu; robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hmmm.. You still haven't said why the BGP solution does not meet your req= s. I believe BGP is fundamental in terms of a) Proven Technology, b) Well k= nown Interface with customer VPNs etc.... I have no issue if this is a scie= nce project more power but I don't think you are making a good case with th= e statement "I Don't Like Protocol X" so I am creating a different paradigm= .. If there are other reasons to consider this approach I would like to see= /understand them.. > > Jim Uttaro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Shah, Himanshu [mailto:hshah@ciena.com] > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 6:25 PM > To: robert@raszuk.net; John E Drake > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES > Subject: RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > I agree completely. > > BGP based solution has its application but by no means that > translates to "why everybody in the world would not want to use it"? > > Perhaps there is thinking that by strongly opposing/ridiculing > any solution other than BGP will somehow stop those who desire a > non-BGP based solution? > > /himanshu > > -----Original Message----- > From: l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Robert Raszuk > Sent: Thursday, March 29, 2012 5:34 PM > To: John E Drake > Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; UTTARO, JAMES > Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS > > Hi John, > > I think you took it a little bit too far. > > I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also > did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have > heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. > > Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this > is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. > > However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to > promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in > experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited > set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to > IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now > when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. > > I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info > TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known > destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for > it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the > community. > > Best, > R. > > >> Jim, >> >> You are completely correct , but let's not overlook the fun factor. >> I.e., it's **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and >> that the current initiative will be "practically perfect" (c.f. 'Mary >> Poppins'). >> >> Thanks, >> >> John >> >> Sent from my iPhone >> >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf >> Of *UTTARO, JAMES >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM >> *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org >> *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS >> >> IMHO... I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so >> overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why >> is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and >> is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a >> dynamic extension of a customer's network. I also think it would be wise >> to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their >> network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to >> leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This >> provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. >> >> To build solutions based on the notion that "I don't like protocol X" is >> invalid.. >> >> Jim Uttaro >> >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM >> *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS >> >> Hi all, >> >> VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for >> different people, some people think it as a service while others think >> it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is >> deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be >> taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another ter= m. >> >> As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a >> light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' >> requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list >> whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from >> all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask >> this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of >> E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN >> solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is >> wrong, pls correct me. >> >> If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF >> for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using >> BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-= IS. >> >> Best regards, >> >> Xiaohu >> From sajassi@cisco.com Fri Mar 30 01:43:17 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84E0C21F8869 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:43:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.823 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.823 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.220, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fUGsx+-11rt9 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:43:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mtv-iport-2.cisco.com (mtv-iport-2.cisco.com [173.36.130.13]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7032E21F886F for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:43:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=sajassi@cisco.com; l=4766; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1333096996; x=1334306596; h=date:subject:from:to:cc:message-id:in-reply-to: mime-version:content-transfer-encoding; bh=sMcmE3h29bXNgfWggYDOqqcnmaPqt7nJOscf0RbV8sI=; b=L+kTGYXiy8R3szAxhGeKXeeLuTjToZVD/wdm1Hpf1KvnQf7Jo/ulRvLP 60DCvGEtbU+odCrsUp7Vf+riNp95KNj+iYbXNfi+SxXZF2Nbmja34ZSk5 CAAFAJFPCoqSVvEgpdXXdf/jt1+GgPH12qSw0a1ME4ZepwjIrRoGiJpTQ M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgAFALVxdU+rRDoH/2dsb2JhbABCt3N2gQeCCQEBAQMBEgEpATABCwUNAQgJCAQBAShNEQEBBAENBRQHB4djBAELn16XM4p6hhYEiCUzhSqHX4ERjTWBaIMHgTQ X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.75,342,1330905600"; d="scan'208";a="38342955" Received: from mtv-core-2.cisco.com ([171.68.58.7]) by mtv-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 30 Mar 2012 08:43:16 +0000 Received: from xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com (xbh-sjc-211.cisco.com [171.70.151.144]) by mtv-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.3/8.14.3) with ESMTP id q2U8hGOS003859; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:43:16 GMT Received: from xmb-sjc-22d.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.68]) by xbh-sjc-211.amer.cisco.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:43:16 -0700 Received: from 10.21.114.31 ([10.21.114.31]) by xmb-sjc-22d.amer.cisco.com ([128.107.191.68]) with Microsoft Exchange Server HTTP-DAV ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:43:15 +0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.32.0.111121 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:43:13 -0700 Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS From: sajassi To: , John E Drake Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: Ac0OUSRuu3wtZYQE90OtoF4z+z+6Ig== In-Reply-To: <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2012 08:43:16.0021 (UTC) FILETIME=[263BDE50:01CD0E51] Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:43:17 -0000 Hi Robert, I won't get into the argument of whether this kind of solution is innovatio= n or permutation. My point is that it is clearly outside of current L2VPN charter and if this kind of solution is to be pursued in L2VPN WG, then it needs to be re-chartered. Also, if we are talking about VPLS service over IP and doing MAC learning against IP addresses (as what this draft is talking about), I had a draft 1= 0 years ago that cover this subject !! http://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-sajassi-mvpls-00.txt Cheers, Ali On 3/29/12 2:33 PM, "Robert Raszuk" wrote: > Hi John, >=20 > I think you took it a little bit too far. >=20 > I have not heard anyone stating that current VPLS solutions suck. I also > did not hear anyone claiming that BGP is difficult. The claim I have > heard is that in some environments one may not like to use BGP for VPLS. >=20 > Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this > is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. >=20 > However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to > promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in > experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited > set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to > IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now > when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. >=20 > I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info > TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known > destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for > it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the > community. >=20 > Best, > R. >=20 >=20 >> Jim, >>=20 >> You are completely correct , but let=B9s not overlook the fun factor. >> I.e., it=B9s **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and >> that the current initiative will be =B3practically perfect=B2 (c.f. =8CMary >> Poppins=B9). >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> John >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf >> Of *UTTARO, JAMES >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM >> *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org >> *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS >>=20 >> IMHO=8A I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so >> overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why >> is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and >> is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a >> dynamic extension of a customer=B9s network. I also think it would be wise >> to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their >> network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to >> leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This >> provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. >>=20 >> To build solutions based on the notion that =B3I don=B9t like protocol X=B2 is >> invalid.. >>=20 >> Jim Uttaro >>=20 >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM >> *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS >>=20 >> Hi all, >>=20 >> VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for >> different people, some people think it as a service while others think >> it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is >> deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be >> taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another ter= m. >>=20 >> As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a >> light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' >> requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list >> whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from >> all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask >> this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of >> E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN >> solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is >> wrong, pls correct me. >>=20 >> If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF >> for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using >> BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-= IS. >>=20 >> Best regards, >>=20 >> Xiaohu >>=20 >=20 From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Fri Mar 30 01:45:59 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4269321F88F9 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:45:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.178 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.026, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q5MsaRpCl7rV for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58B1F21F88F8 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:45:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.2.3-GA FastPath) with ESMTP id AEM90292; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:45:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DFWEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.131) by dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.107) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:42:47 -0700 Received: from SZXEML437-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.72) by dfweml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.131) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:42:54 -0700 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.158]) by szxeml437-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.72]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:42:47 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "'hshah@ciena.com'" , "'thomas.morin@orange.com'" , "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" Subject: re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAXd5D//5jvgIAADh+AgAACSoCAAAG/AIAAmb8AgAAJHgCAAAJzAIAAiHaJ Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:42:48 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0DB2@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: , <14C7F4F06DB5814AB0DE29716C4F6D67E275E87B@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> In-Reply-To: <14C7F4F06DB5814AB0DE29716C4F6D67E275E87B@FRMRSSXCHMBSB1.dc-m.alcatel-lucent.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.24.1.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:45:59 -0000 SGkgV2ltLA0KDQpXb3VsZCB5b3UgcGxlYXNlIHNoYXJlIGEgcG9pbnRlciB0byB0aGF0IG1ldGVy 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UEYNCj4+IGZvciBMMVZQTiBhdXRvLWRpc2NvdmVyeSwgYWx0aG91Z2ggdGhlcmUgaGFzIGJlZW4g b25lIHNvbHV0aW9uIHVzaW5nDQo+PiBCR1AuIEhlbmNlIEkgZG9uJ3Qga25vdyB3aHkgY2FuJ3Qg d2UgaGF2ZSBhIGxpZ2h0LXdlaWdodCBMMlZQTiB1c2luZyBJUy1JUy4NCj4+DQo+PiBCZXN0IHJl Z2FyZHMsDQo+Pg0KPj4gWGlhb2h1DQo+Pg0K From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Fri Mar 30 01:58:12 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD6EB21F87DD for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:58:12 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.08 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.08 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.079, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id pajB+y0Wq5yz for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:58:12 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0230A21F8787 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:58:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.2.3-GA FastPath) with ESMTP id AEU93731; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 04:58:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DFWEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.134) by dfweml201-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.107) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:55:46 -0700 Received: from SZXEML438-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.72.61.73) by dfweml408-hub.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.134) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 01:55:52 -0700 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.158]) by szxeml438-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.72.61.73]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 16:54:51 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: sajassi , "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Subject: re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAXd5D//5jvgIAAuvyAgACIz5k= Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:55:49 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0DDF@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <4F74D547.1010409@raszuk.net>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.24.1.45] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 08:58:13 -0000 SGkgQWxpLA0KDQpXaGF0J3MgeW91ciBhdHRpdHVkZSB0byB5b3VyIG93biBkcmFmdCBhcyBtZW50 aW9uZWQgYmVsb3cgZnJvbSB0b2RheSdzIHBvaW50IG9mIHZpZXc/IGdvb2Qgb3IgYmFkPw0KDQpC 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+0000 User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/12.32.0.111121 Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:01:44 -0700 Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS From: sajassi To: Xuxiaohu , "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Message-ID: Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAXd5D//5jvgIABHOVpgAApX6I= In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0CAE@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1" Content-transfer-encoding: quoted-printable X-OriginalArrivalTime: 30 Mar 2012 09:01:45.0875 (UTC) FILETIME=[BBC22630:01CD0E53] Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:01:47 -0000 Xiaohu, First, thanks for enlightening us on the definition of VPLS! I wrote the RF= C that describes the differences between VPLS as a service, VPLS as a network= , and VPLS as a LAN emulation (RFC 6136) Second, Before talking about why BGP is not suitable for DC, I would recommend you differentiate between different types of DC and their requirements (e.g., EDC v.s. SPDC v.s. MSDC). Jim Uttaro is from ATT and he is very much involved in their SPDC project. Third, before bashing E-VPN/PBB-EVPN, I would recommend that you understand what it is. The reason for simplification is not because of BGP !! As I explained during the session, the reason is because when Rahul and I did th= e merge between R-VPLS and MAC-VPN, the resultant draft had multiple options of doing the same thing and we decided that over time, we will do our due-diligence and narrow it down. Cheers, Ali On 3/29/12 11:52 PM, "Xuxiaohu" wrote: >=20 > [Xiaohu] I fully agree with Robert's points. There are two BGP-based VPLS= (as > a service): BGP/PW-based VPLS [RFC4761] and E-VPN. If somebody wonders wh= y > BGP/PW-based VPLS is not suitable for cloud data center networks, I sugge= st > you read some related BBF tutorials talking about cloud data center netwo= rk > interconnect. If somebody wonders why not E-VPN, I think it'd better to a= sk > this question to NVo3 and also ask E-VPN co-authors why they want to simp= lify > E-VPN. >=20 > Best regards, > Xiaohu >=20 >=20 > Ali's point is that current PEs will have problem supporting it as this > is effectively TRILL over IP is valid from Ali's point of view. >=20 > However one could ask a question if IETF is still an organization to > promote open innovation and consider new ideas (even if only in > experimental mode) or is it just a forum to lock customers to limited > set of solutions ? If it is the latter the trend to seek alternatives to > IETF standardization process will continue to evolve. Especially now > when control plane separation from data plane becomes reality. >=20 > I see nothing wrong to allocate perhaps in experimental mode VPLS Info > TLV codepoint for VPLS over ISIS or for that matter well known > destination port for STT from IANA and let companies who are asking for > it develop the solutions, deploy it then report back the results to the > community. >=20 > Best, > R. >=20 >=20 >> Jim, >>=20 >> You are completely correct , but let=B9s not overlook the fun factor. >> I.e., it=B9s **fun** to say that everything that has gone before sucks and >> that the current initiative will be =B3practically perfect=B2 (c.f. =8CMary >> Poppins=B9). >>=20 >> Thanks, >>=20 >> John >>=20 >> Sent from my iPhone >>=20 >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf >> Of *UTTARO, JAMES >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 11:30 AM >> *To:* 'Xuxiaohu'; l2vpn@ietf.org >> *Subject:* RE: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS >>=20 >> IMHO=8A I am at a bit of a loss as to the notion that BGP is so >> overwhelmingly difficult to deal with in a data center environment.. Why >> is that?? BGP is being used across a wide spectrum of applications and >> is proven. I believe that the data center is becoming more and more a >> dynamic extension of a customer=B9s network. I also think it would be wise >> to anticipate the world of tomorrow where customers may expect their >> network may span multiple operators DCs. The right approach is to >> leverage what has been done BGP and extend it where needed.. This >> provides maximum flexibility and simplicity.. >>=20 >> To build solutions based on the notion that =B3I don=B9t like protocol X=B2 is >> invalid.. >>=20 >> Jim Uttaro >>=20 >> *From:*l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org >> [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Xuxiaohu >> *Sent:* Thursday, March 29, 2012 2:59 PM >> *To:* l2vpn@ietf.org >> *Subject:* Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS >>=20 >> Hi all, >>=20 >> VPLS (Virtual Private LAN Service) has different understandings for >> different people, some people think it as a service while others think >> it as a concrete technology, especially using PWs. Here, the "VPLS" is >> deemed as a VPLS service. If the WG consensus is that "VPLS" should be >> taken as a concrete technology, I have no objection to using another ter= m. >>=20 >> As said in the IS-IS VPLS draft, IS-IS VPLS is intended to be a >> light-weight VPLS solution which can meet some DC operators' >> requirements for simplicity. I don't want to argue in this mailing-list >> whether BGP-based L2VPN solutions could meet well the requirements from >> all DC operators. I personally believe that it would be better to ask >> this question to NVo3. In addition, according to today's presentation of >> E-VPN, I think E-VPN co-authors also admit that the exiting EVPN >> solution seems complex to some DC operators. If my understanding is >> wrong, pls correct me. >>=20 >> If I remembered correctly, L1VPN also has two RFCs using IS-IS and OSPF >> for L1VPN auto-discovery, although there has been one solution using >> BGP. Hence I don't know why can't we have a light-weight L2VPN using IS-= IS. >>=20 >> Best regards, >>=20 >> Xiaohu >>=20 From robert@raszuk.net Fri Mar 30 02:48:24 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ACCE921F85B7 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:48:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.399, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mAQvF2QvxyVs for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:48:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail1310.opentransfer.com (mail1310.opentransfer.com [76.162.254.103]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 166BD21F85B1 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:48:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: (qmail 6475 invoked by uid 399); 30 Mar 2012 09:48:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO ?130.129.22.61?) (pbs:robert@raszuk.net@130.129.22.61) by mail1310.opentransfer.com with ESMTPM; 30 Mar 2012 09:48:22 -0000 X-Originating-IP: 130.129.22.61 Message-ID: <4F758169.3070208@raszuk.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:48:25 +0200 From: Robert Raszuk User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.1; rv:11.0) Gecko/20120312 Thunderbird/11.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: sajassi Subject: Re: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: robert@raszuk.net List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:48:24 -0000 Ali, > Third, before bashing E-VPN/PBB-EVPN, I would recommend that you > understand what it is. Great point indeed. Could you share a pointer to the list which describes VM 1 on Host A's hypervisor to VM 2 on host B's hypervisor interconnect model for both above solutions just assuming that you have IP or MPLS reachability between such hosts ? The requirement of my question is that any encapsulation/decapsulation required for such interconnection should happen on the end hosts (kernel, OVS, NIC etc ...) and not on the "network". Best regards, R. From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Fri Mar 30 02:55:15 2012 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A02821F8926; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:55:15 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.046 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.046 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.593, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fbEoX5WSuimu; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:55:14 -0700 (PDT) Received: from dfwrgout.huawei.com (dfwrgout.huawei.com [206.16.17.72]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0A8AE21F8925; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:55:13 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 172.18.9.243 (EHLO dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.9.243]) by dfwrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.2.3-GA FastPath) with ESMTP id AEM93696; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 05:55:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from DFWEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.102) by dfweml202-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.9.108) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:53:08 -0700 Received: from SZXEML417-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.82.67.156) by dfweml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.102) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.1.323.3; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 02:53:04 -0700 Received: from SZXEML525-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.158]) by szxeml417-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.82.67.156]) with mapi id 14.01.0323.003; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 17:53:02 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: sajassi , "robert@raszuk.net" , John E Drake Subject: =?utf-8?B?562U5aSNOiBSZXNwb25zZSB0byBzb21lIGNvbW1lbnRzIG9uIElTLUlTIFZQ?= =?utf-8?Q?LS?= Thread-Topic: Response to some comments on IS-IS VPLS Thread-Index: AQHNDauno12B0RP+lEO1DyVa7X7/s5aBlXMQgAAXd5D//5jvgIABHOVpgAApX6KAAAtTuA== Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:53:02 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0E23@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE02CE0CAE@szxeml525-mbs.china.huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [172.24.1.67] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 09:55:15 -0000 SGkgQWxpLA0KDQpwbGVhc2Ugc2VlIG15IGNvbW1lbnRzIGlubGluZS4NCg0KX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fXw0K5Y+R5Lu25Lq6OiBzYWphc3NpIFtzYWphc3Np QGNpc2NvLmNvbV0NCuWPkemAgeaXtumXtDogMjAxMuW5tDPmnIgzMOaXpSAxNzowMQ0K5YiwOiBY dXhpYW9odTsgcm9iZXJ0QHJhc3p1ay5uZXQ7IEpvaG4gRSBEcmFrZQ0KQ2M6IGwydnBuQGlldGYu 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tests=[AWL=0.246, BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qon-sfP2ZgxW; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0F5F821F887E; Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:30:40 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-02.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.00 Message-ID: <20120330103040.10050.35324.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 03:30:40 -0700 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:30:40 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Work= ing Group of the IETF. Title : PBB E-VPN Author(s) : Ali Sajassi Samer Salam Sami Boutros Nabil Bitar Aldrin Isaac Lizhong Jin Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-02.txt Pages : 27 Date : 2012-03-30 This document discusses how Ethernet Provider Backbone Bridging [802.1ah] can be combined with E-VPN in order to reduce the number of BGP MAC advertisement routes by aggregating Customer/Client MAC (C- MAC) addresses via Provider Backbone MAC address (B-MAC), provide client MAC address mobility using C-MAC aggregation and B-MAC sub- netting, confine the scope of C-MAC learning to only active flows, offer per site policies and avoid C-MAC address flushing on topology changes. The combined solution is referred to as PBB-EVPN. Conventions A URL for this Internet-Draft is: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-02.txt Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ This Internet-Draft can be retrieved at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-l2vpn-pbb-evpn-02.txt