From nobody Fri Aug 1 15:19:48 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE71F1A0185 for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:19:46 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 5pvPmIMeFs-Q for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:19:44 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 119991A010A for ; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:19:43 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.42]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 2E316534E68CD; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 22:19:38 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s71MJeej011504 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Sat, 2 Aug 2014 00:19:40 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.230]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Sat, 2 Aug 2014 00:19:40 +0200 From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)" To: "Ali Sajassi (sajassi)" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn.all@tools.ietf.org" Subject: Re: AD review of draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn Thread-Topic: AD review of draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn Thread-Index: AQHPrdavnh203TdF6kqCeNkoVFrfMg== Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 22:19:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: <009e01cfa2db$7780eff0$6682cfd0$@olddog.co.uk> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.2.140509 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.39] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <09203BDD29705B4294A284762B07BFD9@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/8GxH6Eya-QSUDp40oZzjTHEYLEE Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 22:19:47 -0000 QWxpLA0KDQpJIGp1c3QgcmVhbGl6ZWQgc29tZXRoaW5nOg0KDQpQYWdlIDE5Og0KIklmIFNpbmds ZS1BY3RpdmUgcmVkdW5kYW5jeSBtb2RlIGlzIGRlc2lyZWQsIHRoZW4gdGhlICJTaW5nbGUtQWN0 aXZl4oCdIGJpdA0KaW4gdGhlIGZsYWdzIG9mIHRoZSBFU0kgTGFiZWwgRXh0ZW5kZWQgQ29tbXVu 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required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id F001upx_crwl; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:32:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fncnmp04.fnc.fujitsu.com (fncnmp04.fnc.fujitsu.com [168.127.0.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 83D2C1A02F3; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 16:32:00 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.01,775,1400043600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="54299128" Received: from rchexhcp2.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.76]) by fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 31 Jul 2014 18:32:00 -0500 Received: from RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local ([169.254.2.63]) by RCHEXHCP2.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Thu, 31 Jul 2014 18:31:59 -0500 From: "O'Connor, Don" To: Tissa Senevirathne , Greg Mirsky , "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" Subject: RE: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Thread-Topic: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Thread-Index: Ac+E3qlMyPi638vnRGmjYh75Wx+edAoWIbcAAAE6agAACU5iwA== Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 23:31:58 +0000 Message-ID: <7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E4645D@RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local> References: <1406847186.16320.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1406847186.16320.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [168.127.136.253] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.3176-7.500.1018-20852.003 x-tm-as-result: No--48.025700-0.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E4645DRCHEXMBP1fncnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/3nBqCuo_w3MpSDNHeWXbAfQ7UPM X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 01:58:50 -0700 Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 31 Jul 2014 23:32:04 -0000 --_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E4645DRCHEXMBP1fncnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tissa, Greg, all Metro Ethernet Forum has already standardized Yang Modules for Ethernet Ser= vice OAM Performance Monitoring and Fault Management. Please see MEF 38 and= 39 http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Regards Don From: L2vpn [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tissa Senevirathne Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:53 PM To: Greg Mirsky; Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; trill@= ietf.org Subject: Re: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Greg Yes it is, generic YANG model steup the base framework. It can be extended = to add tools as well as other elements as well technology deviations. Alarm= s etc either be part of this document will be a separate document that spec= ifies them. That is the reason we have designed the model as modular as pos= sible and extensible as possible. Please let us know if any of the parts are not extensible or not modular en= ough. Thanks Tissa On Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:17 PM, Greg Mirsky > wrote: Hi Tissa, authors, et. al, I've read documents and would like to clarify scope of these documents. OAM= is not limited to ping and traceroute functions. It even not limited to co= ntinuity check. And in connectionless networks there would not be connectiv= ity verification. And the performance measurement is the big part of OAM as= well as protection coordination, defect alarms, and etc. Hence my question= , is it in plans of the authors to address all of OAM in respective documen= ts? Regards, Greg On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) > wrote: All We have published YANG model for OAM. #1 draft below place the generic fram= ework for OAM, that can be augmented for different technologies. #2 and #3 = are application of the concept to NVO3 and TRILL, 1. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/ 2. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-oam/ 3. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang-oam/ Please review and share your comments Thanks Tissa _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 --_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E4645DRCHEXMBP1fncnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tissa, Greg, all=

 

Metro Ethernet Forum has al= ready standardized Yang Modules for Ethernet Service OAM Performance Monito= ring and Fault Management. Please see MEF 38 and 39

 

http://metroethern= etforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications=

 

Regards

 

Don

 

From: L2vpn [m= ailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tissa Senevirathne
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:53 PM
To: Greg Mirsky; Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org;= trill@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM

 

Greg=

 

Yes it is, generic YANG model steup the ba= se framework. It can be extended to add tools as well as other elements as = well technology deviations. Alarms etc either be part of this document will be a separate document that specifies them. That is the= reason we have designed the model as modular as possible and extensible as= possible.

 

Please let us know if any of the parts are= not extensible or not modular enough.

 

Thanks

Tissa

 

On= Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:17 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:<= /o:p>

 

Hi Tissa, autho= rs, et. al,

I've read documents and would like to clarify scope of these document= s. OAM is not limited to ping and traceroute functions. It even not limited to continuity check. And in connectionless networks there= would not be connectivity verification. And the performance measurement is= the big part of OAM as well as protection coordination, defect alarms, and= etc. Hence my question, is it in plans of the authors to address all of OAM in respective documents?

Regards,

Greg=

 

On Tue, Jun 10,= 2014 at 12:03 PM, Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) <tsenevir@cisco.com> wrote:

All<= /span>

 

We have publish= ed YANG model for OAM. #1 draft below place the generic framework for OAM, = that can be augmented for different technologies. #2 and #3 are application of the concept to NVO3 and TRILL,

 

 

Please review a= nd share your comments

 

Thanks

Tissa

 

 


_______________________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3

 

 

--_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E4645DRCHEXMBP1fncnet_-- From nobody Mon Aug 4 01:58:58 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2B9221B28B3; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 13:00:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ZsEYoBOi2jpM; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 13:00:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fncnmp04.fnc.fujitsu.com (fncnmp04.fnc.fujitsu.com [168.127.0.57]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 899811A0467; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 13:00:50 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.01,781,1400043600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="54335056" Received: from rchexhcp2.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.76]) by fncnmp02.fnc.fujitsu.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 01 Aug 2014 15:00:49 -0500 Received: from RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local ([169.254.2.63]) by RCHEXHCP2.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.76]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:00:48 -0500 From: "O'Connor, Don" To: Greg Mirsky Subject: RE: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Thread-Topic: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Thread-Index: Ac+E3qlMyPi638vnRGmjYh75Wx+edAoWIbcAAAE6agAACU5iwP//xQ4A//8BvNA= Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 20:00:48 +0000 Message-ID: <7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E46A72@RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local> References: <1406847186.16320.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E4645D@RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [168.127.136.253] 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tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g7eXYO4DbZTr; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 13:08:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com (fncnmp03.fnc.fujitsu.com [168.127.0.56]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5F201A0467; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 13:08:23 -0700 (PDT) X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos; i="5.01,781,1400043600"; d="scan'208,217"; a="52769688" Received: from rchexhcp1.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.75]) by fncnmp01.fnc.fujitsu.com with ESMTP/TLS/AES128-SHA; 01 Aug 2014 15:08:23 -0500 Received: from RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local ([169.254.2.63]) by RCHEXHCP1.fnc.net.local ([168.127.134.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0181.006; Fri, 1 Aug 2014 15:08:22 -0500 From: "O'Connor, Don" To: "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" , Tissa Senevirathne , Greg Mirsky Subject: RE: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Thread-Topic: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Thread-Index: Ac+E3qlMyPi638vnRGmjYh75Wx+edAoWIbcAAAE6agAACU5iwAAR6gcAAAadH3A= Date: Fri, 1 Aug 2014 20:08:22 +0000 Message-ID: <7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E46AA6@RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local> References: <1406847186.16320.YahooMailNeo@web162805.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> <7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E4645D@RCHEXMBP1.fnc.net.local> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [168.127.136.253] x-tm-as-product-ver: SMEX-10.2.0.3176-7.500.1018-20854.002 x-tm-as-result: No--51.982500-0.000000-31 x-tm-as-user-approved-sender: Yes x-tm-as-user-blocked-sender: No Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E46AA6RCHEXMBP1fncnet_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/mwBhuLdPykGfy-bAnojSeanU2fM X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 04 Aug 2014 01:58:51 -0700 Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "opsawg@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "netmod@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 01 Aug 2014 20:08:27 -0000 --_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E46AA6RCHEXMBP1fncnet_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Tissa The MEF standards apply to the Ethernet Service Layer of Carrier Ethernet S= ervices. Are the IDs in your email constrained to layers below the Ethernet= Service Layer for Carrier Ethernet Service? Or are they not applicable to = Carrier Ethernet Service? Regards Don From: L2vpn [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tissa Senevirathne= (tsenevir) Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:49 PM To: O'Connor, Don; Tissa Senevirathne; Greg Mirsky Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; trill@= ietf.org Subject: RE: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Don I am aware of that, but this is different, MEF YANG model is specifically f= or Ethernet and structure does not allow to bring different addressing sche= mes other than MAC address. Additionally the proposed standard allow to add= flow entropies and facilitate nested OAM between different technologies. Y= ou may have to read in to the details to see the actual differences. From: O'Connor, Don [mailto:don.oconnor@us.fujitsu.com] Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:32 PM To: Tissa Senevirathne; Greg Mirsky; Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org Subject: RE: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Tissa, Greg, all Metro Ethernet Forum has already standardized Yang Modules for Ethernet Ser= vice OAM Performance Monitoring and Fault Management. Please see MEF 38 and= 39 http://metroethernetforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications Regards Don From: L2vpn [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tissa Senevirathne Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:53 PM To: Greg Mirsky; Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org Subject: Re: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM Greg Yes it is, generic YANG model steup the base framework. It can be extended = to add tools as well as other elements as well technology deviations. Alarm= s etc either be part of this document will be a separate document that spec= ifies them. That is the reason we have designed the model as modular as pos= sible and extensible as possible. Please let us know if any of the parts are not extensible or not modular en= ough. Thanks Tissa On Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:17 PM, Greg Mirsky > wrote: Hi Tissa, authors, et. al, I've read documents and would like to clarify scope of these documents. OAM= is not limited to ping and traceroute functions. It even not limited to co= ntinuity check. And in connectionless networks there would not be connectiv= ity verification. And the performance measurement is the big part of OAM as= well as protection coordination, defect alarms, and etc. Hence my question= , is it in plans of the authors to address all of OAM in respective documen= ts? Regards, Greg On Tue, Jun 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) > wrote: All We have published YANG model for OAM. #1 draft below place the generic fram= ework for OAM, that can be augmented for different technologies. #2 and #3 = are application of the concept to NVO3 and TRILL, 1. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-netmod-oam/ 2. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-nvo3-yang-oam/ 3. http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-tissa-trill-yang-oam/ Please review and share your comments Thanks Tissa _______________________________________________ nvo3 mailing list nvo3@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3 --_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E46AA6RCHEXMBP1fncnet_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Tissa

 

The MEF standards apply to = the Ethernet Service Layer of Carrier Ethernet Services. Are the IDs in you= r email constrained to layers below the Ethernet Service Layer for Carrier Ethernet Service? Or are they not applicable to Carrier = Ethernet Service?

 

Regards

 

Don

 

From: L2vpn [m= ailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 6:49 PM
To: O'Connor, Don; Tissa Senevirathne; Greg Mirsky
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org;= trill@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM

 

Don


I am aware of that, but this is different, MEF YANG model is specifically f= or Ethernet and structure does not allow to bring different addressing sche= mes other than MAC address. Additionally the proposed standard allow to add= flow entropies and facilitate nested OAM between different technologies. You may have to read in to the details= to see the actual differences.

 <= /p>

From: O'Connor= , Don [mailto:don.oconnor@us.= fujitsu.com]
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 4:32 PM
To: Tissa Senevirathne; Greg Mirsky; Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org Subject: RE: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM

 

Tissa, Greg, all=

 

Metro Ethernet Forum has al= ready standardized Yang Modules for Ethernet Service OAM Performance Monito= ring and Fault Management. Please see MEF 38 and 39

 

http://metroethern= etforum.org/carrier-ethernet/technical-specifications=

 

Regards

 

Don

 

From: L2vpn [<= a href=3D"mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org">mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Tissa Senevirathne
Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2014 5:53 PM
To: Greg Mirsky; Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; opsawg@ietf.org; nvo3@ietf.org; netmod@ietf.org; trill@ietf.org Subject: Re: [nvo3] YANG models for OAM

 

Greg=

 

Yes it is, generic YANG model steup the ba= se framework. It can be extended to add tools as well as other elements as = well technology deviations. Alarms etc either be part of this document will be a separate document that specifies them. That is the= reason we have designed the model as modular as possible and extensible as= possible.

 

Please let us know if any of the parts are= not extensible or not modular enough.

 

Thanks

Tissa

 

On= Thursday, July 31, 2014 3:17 PM, Greg Mirsky <gregimirsky@gmail.com> wrote:<= /o:p>

 

Hi Tissa, autho= rs, et. al,

I've read documents and would like to clarify scope of these document= s. OAM is not limited to ping and traceroute functions. It even not limited to continuity check. And in connectionless networks there= would not be connectivity verification. And the performance measurement is= the big part of OAM as well as protection coordination, defect alarms, and= etc. Hence my question, is it in plans of the authors to address all of OAM in respective documents?

Regards,

Greg=

 

On Tue, Jun 10,= 2014 at 12:03 PM, Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir) <tsenevir@cisco.com> wrote:

All<= /span>

 

We have publish= ed YANG model for OAM. #1 draft below place the generic framework for OAM, = that can be augmented for different technologies. #2 and #3 are application of the concept to NVO3 and TRILL,

 

 

Please review a= nd share your comments

 

Thanks

Tissa

 

 


_______________________________________________
nvo3 mailing list
nvo3@ietf.org
ht= tps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/nvo3

 

 

--_000_7DFA7869D33BD44A9A84BA24AD75BDE6D9E46AA6RCHEXMBP1fncnet_-- From nobody Thu Aug 7 08:15:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A0C7E1B2A68; Thu, 7 Aug 2014 08:15:33 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2AFbPkkREeiv; Thu, 7 Aug 2014 08:15:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E0041B2CEE; Thu, 7 Aug 2014 08:15:19 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-08.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140807151519.19846.64401.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 08:15:19 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/38dHorZE3h5h3cjO-9fQdBX8wNw Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Aug 2014 15:15:34 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for Ethernet Tree (E-Tree) Service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Network Authors : Raymond Key Lucy Yong Simon Delord Frederic Jounay Lizhong Jin Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-08.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2014-08-07 Abstract: This document describes an Ethernet-Tree (E-Tree) solution framework for supporting the Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) E-Tree service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) network. The objective is to provide a simple and effective approach to emulate E-Tree services in addition to Ethernet LAN (E-LAN) services on an existing MPLS network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-08 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-08 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Sat Aug 16 23:08:06 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9D381A072D for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2014 23:08:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.6 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.6 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id gh5LUP-jm1S5 for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2014 23:08:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 359E61A072E for ; Sat, 16 Aug 2014 23:08:02 -0700 (PDT) X-AuditID: c6180641-f79916d00000623a-2f-53eff010081f Received: from EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.78]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 51.29.25146.010FFE35; Sun, 17 Aug 2014 01:58:09 +0200 (CEST) Received: from EUSAAMB103.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.120]) by EUSAAHC002.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.78]) with mapi id 14.03.0174.001; Sun, 17 Aug 2014 02:07:52 -0400 From: Antoni Przygienda To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Some observations/questions on inter-subnet and type-5 draft for EVPN Thread-Topic: Some observations/questions on inter-subnet and type-5 draft for EVPN Thread-Index: Ac+54Vj/kFnQLaMuTYuhBZ6GvOXmLQ== Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 06:07:51 +0000 Message-ID: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F181845DE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.9] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F181845DEeusaamb103ericsso_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn67gh/fBBpvfC1o8/naI3YHRY8mS n0wBjFFcNimpOZllqUX6dglcGQtbb7IVnGhlrJi3bSFbA+PFki5GTg4JAROJeVsmMUHYYhIX 7q1n62Lk4hASOMoosfL7fhYIZzmjxKz/f5hBqtgELCQuf3sKZHNwiAioSuxu4QIJCwsESHS8 e8oKYosIhEq0XG+DsvUkPj39zQJiswCVL/vQzwbSyivgLbF8QxlImBFo7/dTa8BuYBYQl7j1 ZD7UPQISS/acZ4awRSVePv7HCmErSuzrn84OMoZZIF/i/8pykDCvgKDEyZlPWCYwCs1CMmkW QtUsJFUQJToSC3Z/YoOwtSWWLXzNDGOfOfCYCVl8ASP7KkaO0uLUstx0I8NNjMCgPybB5riD ccEny0OMAhyMSjy8D5LfBwuxJpYVV+YeYpTmYFES59WsnhcsJJCeWJKanZpakFoUX1Sak1p8 iJGJg1OqgbFMQ2pD4IIDeobu+1VyHqz9sV5ufdsZn/n2932MdLJaZju6a6zmeMIdxr+sZFbB O/aFjCKhhXor7GU7pb96ceXL3CpzWThBJfine/T8SFuVun9hvc8jM0rNI8Uud541YLx24mKZ T3Trz4flNXo+YjP2Xg1Jlp4RusXx6MZzN8y+l0iYlNbeU2Ipzkg01GIuKk4EAHper7VbAgAA Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/48muQR-b1_aPdbuJ6UHNnUO-zTU X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Aug 2014 06:08:05 -0000 --_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F181845DEeusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable So, wrapping around my head around EVPN type 5 and inter-subnet drafts and = some observations (all on version -02 of type 5 and version -04 of inter-s= ubnet) a) Nitpick first: in type-5 section 3.1 the IP Address Length field i= s not a particularly well chosen name for the field. It really is prefix le= ngth and other drafts use IP Address Length being 1 byte to indicate 4 byte= s or 16 bytes and not mask length (e.g. evpn-07). I suggest changing to 'IP= Prefix Length' or something like this. b) The new BGP attribute have couple unclear things to it (I mean the = 'EVPN-GW-2-EVPN-GW tunnel attribute' for lack of a clearly specified name (= which I think it needs) in draft inter-subnet section 6) i. I assume the intention of lack of such an attribute is that the tu= nnel is MPLS and therefore the label-2=3Dl3vpn-label since I don't see an '= MPLS-tunnel-type' in the attribute ? But then, how do we figure out e.g. th= e MAC of the NVE. Did I misread completely or is that an oversight or did I= get lost in all the tunneling ? ii. Bump-in-the-wire-use-case seems to indicate that the 'EVPN-GW-2-EV= PN-GW tunnel attribute' is carried on route type 1 (but it seems it could b= e carried on the type-5 route with ESI!=3D0 equally well ? In the VRF-2-VR= F case however it's clear that type-5 is carrying the tunnel attribute so i= t may be more consistent to not stick it on type-1 albeit sticking it on ty= pe-1 is more consistent with it being stuck on RT-2 routes to resolve the M= AC-2-tunnel in e.g. floating ip use case iii. It is not clear whether multiple tunnel attributes can be sent wit= hin a route & used for load balancing c) I start to ask myself whether we should start to think about IP rou= te preferences in EVPN. Observe that currently we can install/use IP addres= ses/prefixes for IRB in EVPN assigned VRFs from multiple sources (or rather= inter-subnet route on them) 1. IP-MAC (RT-2) containing /32 (incl. gateway attribute) 2. RT-5 containting /0 all the way to /32 3. Draft-inter seems to allow to use IP-VPN routes to be used for look= up incl. prefixes (if not explicitly then surely implicitly via RTs) 4. Redistribution from other protocols that do either IP prefix or IP-= MAC bindings (but that's kind of well-known protocol distance we have today= already) Question here becomes: Should we specify the IP route preferences for all t= hose routes being installed into the IP-VRF (or in broader sense, which add= ress type should be preferred in inter-subnet lookup) ? If not, looping cr= iteria start to become imaginable IMO if implementations do not agree on th= e protocol preference as was the case for a while in L3 routing. thanks --- tony --_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F181845DEeusaamb103ericsso_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

So, wrapping around my head around EVPN type 5 and inter-sub= net drafts and some observations (all on version -02 of type  5 and ve= rsion -04 of inter-subnet)

 

a)       Nitpick first: in type-5= section 3.1 the IP Address Length field is not a particularly well chosen = name for the field. It really is prefix length and other drafts use IP Addr= ess Length being 1 byte to indicate 4 bytes or 16 bytes and not mask length (e.g. evpn-07). I suggest changing t= o ‘IP Prefix Length’ or something like this.

 

b)      The new BGP attribute have cou= ple unclear things to it (I mean the ‘EVPN-GW-2-EVPN-GW tunnel attrib= ute’ for lack of a clearly specified name (which I think it needs) in= draft inter-subnet section 6)

i. =       I assume the intention of lack= of such an attribute is that the tunnel is MPLS and therefore the label-2= =3Dl3vpn-label since I don’t see an ‘MPLS-tunnel-type’ in= the attribute ? But then, how do we figure out e.g. the MAC of the NVE. Did I misread completely or is that an oversight or di= d I get lost in all the tunneling ?

ii. = ;     Bump-in-the-wire-use-case seem= s to indicate that the ‘EVPN-GW-2-EVPN-GW tunnel attribute’ is = carried on route type 1 (but it seems it could be carried on the type-5 rou= te with ESI!=3D0 equally well ?  In the VRF-2-VRF case however it’s clear that type-5 is carrying the tunnel attribute= so it may be more consistent to not stick it on type-1 albeit sticking it = on type-1 is more consistent with it being stuck on RT-2 routes to resolve = the MAC-2-tunnel in e.g. floating ip use case

iii.&nbs= p;    It is not clear whether multip= le tunnel attributes can be sent within a route & used for load balanci= ng

 <= /font>

c)      I start to ask myself whether = we should start to think about IP route preferences in EVPN. Observe that c= urrently we can install/use IP addresses/prefixes for IRB in EVPN assigned = VRFs from multiple sources (or rather inter-subnet route on them)

 

1. =      IP-MAC (RT-2) containing /32 (= incl. gateway attribute)

2. =      RT-5 containting /0 all the wa= y to /32

3. =      Draft-inter seems to allow to = use IP-VPN routes to be used for lookup incl. prefixes (if not explicitly t= hen surely implicitly via RTs)

4. =      Redistribution from other prot= ocols that do either IP prefix or IP-MAC bindings (but that’s kind of= well-known protocol distance we have today already)

 

Question here becomes: Should we specify the IP route= preferences for all those routes being installed into the IP-VRF (or in br= oader sense, which address type should be preferred in inter-subnet lookup) ?  If not, looping criteria start t= o become imaginable IMO if implementations do not agree on the protocol pre= ference as was the case for a while in L3 routing.

 

thanks

 

--- tony

 

 

--_000_2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F181845DEeusaamb103ericsso_-- From nobody Mon Aug 18 10:20:56 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5C71C1A06C8 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:12:58 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.459 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.459 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, GB_SUMOF=1, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_81=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_FILL_THIS_FORM_SHORT=0.01, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zs8TCpDYMTFK for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:12:50 -0700 (PDT) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0C0F21A06A8 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:12:48 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=109417; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1408381971; x=1409591571; h=from:to:subject:mime-version:content-id: content-transfer-encoding:date:message-id; bh=XAejyCA1WrLYH5LtmzvXMd/EvOnttWcVgvD0VDMa4pM=; b=iz6CEr0bwS2szpG6GcEiNRxQX5MzhWKfSBwZROVrQ6nM/qFfB0FSw4V5 rUPVjThNeXoYMtwiYr9/ZuAvHPOagkvOz4JsM0XTcLu+P8zJ5UdumuJAk ouo5H5+j00HNpEZHqb0wyxfcjzUlkgrVhcq60GcTl+bhAu5KBJMN5vwXq Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.01,887,1400025600"; d="scan'208";a="70226190" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Aug 2014 17:12:50 +0000 Received: from erosen-lnx.cisco.com (erosen-lnx.cisco.com [161.44.71.19]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s7IHClr2016108; Mon, 18 Aug 2014 17:12:48 GMT Received: from erosen-lnx (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by erosen-lnx.cisco.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A2993748; Mon, 18 Aug 2014 13:12:47 -0400 (EDT) From: erosen@cisco.com To: l2vpn@ietf.org Subject: Comments on draft-ietf-l2vpn-pim-snooping-06 X-Mailer: MH-E 8.3.1; nmh 1.6; GNU Emacs 24.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <31067.1408381967.1@erosen-lnx> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 13:12:47 -0400 Message-ID: <31068.1408381967@erosen-lnx> Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/Pn4ynVt5p8dh_2dsFs9zkEydMAY X-Mailman-Approved-At: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 10:20:53 -0700 X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Aug 2014 17:12:58 -0000 I was asked to do a reivew of draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-pim-snooping-06; here are my questions and comments. Overall I think the draft is in good shape, and I don't really see any reason why it wouldn't work. I do think the procedures add complexity to VPLS, as they really get into the details of the PIM state machines. The advantage of the procedures is that they reduce bandwidth waste, by sendin= g multicast streams only where they need to go, rather than by flooding them through the VPLS instance. This tradeoff will have to be evaluated by the individual SPs. First, a couple of minor editorial comments: - The use of capitalization for the defined terms needs to be made consistent. For example, mid-way through the data the term "RPort" becomes "rport", and it wasn't obvious to me at first whether this difference was intentional or not (I believe not). The RFC Editor generally finds thes= e issues, but it's better to get them fixed before the AUTH48 period. Also watch for "PIM" vs. "Pim". - There are a number of places where a rule for (S,G) is followed by a rul= e for (*,G), and the two rules appear to be the same. It would be better = to give the rule once, and say it is for "(x,G), where x can be '*' or 'S'"= . (Just a suggestion, I wouldn't consider this to be a blocking issue.) Now a comment on the exposition. The draft actually defines three closely related schemes: "Snooping", "Proxy", and "Relay". It's a little tough to figure out just what the difference is, especially the different between "Proxy" and "Relay". "Relay" is said to be a "lightweight" version of "Proxy", but you really have to dig into the details to see what that mean= s. Let me test my understanding, and authors can correct me if I have misunderstood something. In the following three bullet points, I am assuming that we are in the context of a particular VPLS instance. 1. PIM Snooping does not interfere with the flooding (according to ordinar= y VPLS procedures) of PIM control messages. However, it keeps track of which ports have CEs that have expressed interest in a given multicast stream ((S,G) or (*,G)) by sending a Join on that port. It also keeps track of which ports are "upstream" and which are "downstream" for a given flow. Multicast data traffic of a given flow is then transmitted by a PE only when received from an upstream port, and is transmitted on= ly on downstream ports that have expressed interest. The problem with Snooping is the following. A Join from a downstream port will be flooded to the other (potential) downstream ports. If a C= E on one of these other ports sees a Join(x,G), the CE may decide that it doesn't have to send its own Join(x,G). This is "join suppression". Thus the PE cannot tell which of the ports are attached CEs that have interest in (x,G). Thus Snooping only works if Join Suppression is turned off in all the CEs, and this is not necessarily possible to deploy (especially if the = SP doesn't manage the CEs, or the CEs don't have the ability to disable Jo= in Suppression.) Presumably, if there area multiple CEs per AC, the PE can receive a Joi= n per (x,G) from each CE, and will flood all these Joins. = 2. PIM Relay avoids this by NOT flooding the Join messages. A Join messag= e from a given CE is only forwarded "upstream", as determined by the "upstream neighbor" field of the Join. Other downstream CEs won't see this Join, and hence they will not suppress their own Joins, even if Jo= in Suppression is enabled. So a PE will see a Join from each downstream port where there is intere= st in a particular (x,G), and each of these Joins gets forwarded upstream. If there are multiple CEs on a given AC, the CEs on the same AC will se= e each others' Joins and can apply Join Suppression in that context. So one would expect a PE to see no more than one Join per (x,G) per port. Each of these Joins is forwarded upstream. 3. PIM Proxy is similar to PIM Relay, but different. The functional difference is not clearly expressed in the narrative, but has to be inferred from the details. I think the difference is the following. A= s stated above, PIM Relay may forward upstream multiple Join(x,G) message= s. However, PIM Proxy will forward upstream only a single Join(x,G) messag= e. (I.e. it aggregates the (x,G) Joins from downstream, much as a PIM rout= er would do.) This requires maintaining more multicast control state than is necessary for PIM Relay (hence the claim that Relay is a "lightweigh= t" version of Proxy), but reduces the upstream control plane load. If this is correct, it would be helpful to see section 2.4 expanded a bit = to explain the differences between the three schemes more clearly. (The best comparison of the three related schemes is actually in the Abstract, but I think there should be more comparative detail in the body = of the draft.) = I also think it is difficult to understand the interactions between PIM Snooping/Proxy/Relay and IGMP snooping. Interactions are mentioned in sections 1.1, 2.8, and 2.11; the draft doesn't really give a clear message as to whether using them together is a good idea or not. Perhaps this dra= ft could benefit from a "Deployment Considerations" section that addressed th= is sort of issue, as well as the issues about which variant of Snooping/Proxy/Relay to choose under what circumstances. = Additional comments in-line, look for lines beginning ****. = = Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks O. Dornon Internet-Draft J. Kotalwar Intended status: Informational Alcatel-Lucent Expires: October 31, 2014 V. Hemige R. Qiu Z. Zhang Juniper Networks, Inc. April 29, 2014 PIM Snooping over VPLS draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-pim-snooping-06 Abstract This document describes the procedures and recommendations for VPLS PEs to facilitate replication of multicast traffic to only certain ports (behind which there are interested PIM routers and/or IGMP hosts) via PIM Snooping and PIM Proxy. With PIM Snooping, PEs passively listen to certain PIM control messages to build control and forwarding states while transparently flooding those messages. With PIM Proxy, PEs do not flood PIM Join/ Prune messages but only generate their own and send out of certain ports, based on the control states built from downstream Join/Prune messages. PIM Proxy is required when PIM Join suppression is enabled on the CE devices and useful to reduce PIM control traffic in a VPLS domain. The document also describes PIM Relay, which can be viewed as light- weight proxy, where all downstream Join/Prune messages are simply forwarded out of certain ports but not flooded to avoid triggering PIM Join suppression on CE devices. Requirements Language The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. Status of this Memo This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 1] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet- Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." This Internet-Draft will expire on October 31, 2014. Copyright Notice Copyright (c) 2014 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the document authors. All rights reserved. This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal Provisions Relating to IETF Documents (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of publication of this document. Please review these documents carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as described in the Simplified BSD License. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 2] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Table of Contents 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1.1. Multicast Snooping in VPLS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 1.2. Assumptions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 1.3. Definitions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 2. PIM Snooping for VPLS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 2.1. PIM protocol background . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 2.2. General Rules for PIM Snooping in VPLS . . . . . . . . . . 8 2.2.1. Preserving Assert Trigger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 2.3. Some Considerations for PIM Snooping . . . . . . . . . . . 9 2.3.1. Scaling . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 2.3.2. IPv6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 2.3.3. PIM-SM (*,*,RP) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 2.4. PIM Snooping vs PIM Proxy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 2.4.1. Differences between PIM Snooping, Relay and Proxy . . 10 2.4.2. PIM Control Message Latency . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 2.4.3. When to Snoop and When to Proxy . . . . . . . . . . . 12 2.5. Discovering PIM Routers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 2.6. PIM-SM and PIM-SSM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 2.6.1. Building PIM-SM Snooping States . . . . . . . . . . . 14 2.6.2. Explanation for per (S,G,N) states . . . . . . . . . . 17 2.6.3. Receiving (*,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages . . . . . . 17 2.6.4. Receiving (S,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages . . . . . . 19 2.6.5. Receiving (S,G,rpt) Join/Prune Messages . . . . . . . 21 2.6.6. Sending Join/Prune Messages Upstream . . . . . . . . . 21 2.7. Bidirectional-PIM (PIM-BIDIR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 2.8. Interaction with IGMP Snooping . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 2.9. PIM-DM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 2.9.1. Building PIM-DM Snooping States . . . . . . . . . . . 23 2.9.2. PIM-DM Downstream Per-Port PIM(S,G,N) State Machine . 24 2.9.3. Triggering ASSERT election in PIM-DM . . . . . . . . . 24 2.10. PIM Proxy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 2.10.1. Upstream PIM Proxy behavior . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 2.11. Directly Connected Multicast Source . . . . . . . . . . . 25 2.12. Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 2.12.1. PIM-SM Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 2.12.2. PIM-DM Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 3. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 4. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 5. Contributors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 6. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 7. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 7.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 7.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 Appendix A. PIM-BIDIR Thoughts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 A.1. PIM-BIDIR Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 Appendix B. Example Network Scenario . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 3] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 B.1. Pim Snooping Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 B.2. PIM Proxy Example with (S,G) / (*,G) interaction . . . . . 34 Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 4] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 1. Introduction In Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS), the Provider Edge (PE) devices provide a logical interconnect such that Customer Edge (CE) devices belonging to a specific VPLS instance appear to be connected by a single LAN. Forwarding Information Base for a VPLS instance is populated dynamically by source MAC address learning. **** This sort of suggests (by the mention of SA learning) that this draft **** does not apply to EVPN. Is that the intention? Once a unicast MAC address is learned and associated with a particular Attachment Circuit (AC) or PseudoWire (PW), a frame destined to that MAC address only needs to be sent on that AC or PW. For a frame not addressed to a known unicast MAC address, flooding **** It might be useful here to say just what "flooding" means in the **** context of VPLS, i.e., (a) if received from PW, send to all ACs, (b) = if **** received from AC, send to all other ACs and to all PWs. = has to be used. This happen with the following so called BUM traffic: o B: The destination MAC address is a broadcast address, o U: The destination MAC address is unknown (has not been learned), o M: The destination MAC address is a multicast address. Multicast frames are flooded because a PE cannot know where multicast members reside. VPLS solutions (i.e., [VPLS-LDP] and [VPLS-BGP]) perform replication for multicast traffic at the ingress PE devices. As stated in the VPLS Multicast Requirements draft [VPLS-MCAST-REQ], there are two issues with VPLS Multicast today: o A. Multicast traffic is replicated to non-member sites. o B. Replication of PWs on shared physical path. Issue A can be solved by Multicast Snooping - PEs learn sites with multicast members by snooping multicast protocol control messages and forward IP multicast traffic only to member sites. This documents describes the procedures to achieve that when PIM is running between the CE devices. **** "PIM is running between the CE devices" --> "the CE devices are PIM **** adjacencies of each other" (well, I think that's less likely to be **** misunderstood than "running between") **** A forward reference to the section discussing whether hosts and route= rs **** can be on the same VPLS instance would be useful here. Issue B is outside the scope of this document and discussed in[VPLS-MCAST-TREES]. While this document is in the context of VPLS, the procedures apply to regular layer-2 switches interconnected by physical connections as well. In that case, the PW related concept/procedures are not applicable and that's all. 1.1. Multicast Snooping in VPLS IGMP Snooping procedures described in[IGMP-SNOOP] make sure that IP **** in[IGMP-SNOOP] --> in [IGMP-SNOOP] = multicast traffic is only sent out of the following: **** perhaps: "out of the following" --> "on the following ports" = Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 5] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 o Attachment Circuits (ACs) connecting to hosts that report related group membership o ACs connecting to routers o PseudoWires (PWs) connecting to remote PEs that have the above described ACs Notice that traffic is always sent out of ports connecting to **** perhaps: "out of ports" --> "on ports" = routers, **** "connecting to routers" --> "that have p2p connections to routers or **** that attach to a LAN on which there is a router" = even those on which there are no snooped group memberships, because IGMP Snooping alone can not determine if there are interested receivers beyond those routers. To further restrict traffic sent to those routers, PIM Snooping can be used, and this document describes the procedures, including the rules when both IGMP and PIM are active in a VPLS instance. **** Please add a reference here to sections 2.8 and 2.11, which discuss t= he **** issues that occur when one tries to do both IGMP and PIM Snooping. **** The paragraph above suggests that there is no problem using both **** together, but section 2.11 seems to recommend not doing it. = Note that for both IGMP and PIM, the term Snooping is used loosely, referring to the fact that a layer-2 device peeks into layer-3 routing protocol messages to build relevant control and forwarding states. Depending on how the control messages are handled (transparently flooded, selectively forwarded, or consumed and then regenerated), the procedure/process may be called Snooping or Proxy in different contexts. **** The difference between "selectively forwarded" and "consumed then **** regenerated" is a bit difficult to understand. Presumably "selective= ly **** forwarded" means "Relay", while "consumed then regenerated" means **** "Proxy". But one could take this to mean that every Join is consumed **** and regenerated, which would be a lot like Relay. I wonder if it wou= ld **** be better to say "aggregated" rather than "consumed then regenerated"= . Unless explicitly noted, the procedures in this document are used for either PIM Snooping or PIM Proxy, and we will largely refer to PIM "Snooping" in this document. The PIM Proxy specific procedures are described in Section 2.6.6. Differences that need to be observed while implementing one or the other and recommendations on which method to employ in different scenarios are noted in section Section 2.4. This document also describes PIM Relay, which can be viewed as light- weight Proxy. Unless explicitly noted, in the rest of the document Proxy implicitly includes Relay as well. **** Very hard to understand from this text what the different between Pro= xy **** and Relay is. = 1.2. Assumptions The document assumes that the reader has a good understanding of the PIM protocols. The text in this draft is written in the same style as the PIM RFCs to help correlate the concepts and to make it easier to follow. In order to avoid replicating the text relating to PIM protocol handling here, this draft cross references into definitions of macros and procedures from the PIM RFCs, and assumes that the user will infer such detail from those PIM RFCs. Deviations in protocol handling specific to PIM Snooping are specified in this draft. **** The details are so specific to the PIM macros and state machines, tha= t **** that I have wonder whether a LC in the PIM WG would be appropriate. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 6] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 1.3. Definitions There are several definitions referenced in this document that are well described in the PIM RFCs [PIM-SM], PIM-BIDIR, PIM-DM]. The **** The use of brackets above seems incorrect. **** BTW, RFC 5015 uses the term "BIDIR-PIM" rather than "PIM-BIDIR". I'v= e **** never understood why, but perhaps it would be good to use the same te= rm **** here. = following definitions and abbreviations are used throughout this document: o A port is defined as either an attachment circuit (AC) or a Pseudo-Wire (PW). o When we say a PIM message is 'received' on a port, it means that a PIM Snooping PE snooped the PIM message. Abbreviations used in the document: o S: IP Address of the Multicast Source. o G: IP Address of the Multicast Group. o N: Upstream Neighbor field in a Join/Prune/Graft message. o Rport(N): Port on which neighbor N is learnt. **** The phrase "on which neighbor N is learnt" is not very clear. Does **** this mean "the port over which N's Hellos are received?" Or somethin= g **** else? Other definitions are explained in the sections where they are introduced. 2. PIM Snooping for VPLS 2.1. PIM protocol background PIM is a multicast routing protocol running between routers, which are CE devices in a VPLS. PIM shares many of the common characteristics of a routing protocol, such as discovery messages (e.g., neighbor discovery using Hello messages), topology information (e.g., multicast tree), **** Multicast tree as topology information?? PIM is more like a distance **** vector routing algorithm than a LSA routing algorithm, decisions are **** made based on input from neighbors rather than on topology info; not **** really sure what is meant above by "topology information". and error detection and notification (e.g., dead timer and designated router election). PIM does not participate in exchange of unicast routing databases, but it uses the unicast routing table to provide reverse path information for building multicast trees. There are a few variants of PIM. In [PIM-DM], multicast data is pushed towards the members similar to broadcast mechanism but routers without attached receivers will prune back towards the source. Unlike PIM-DM, other PIM flavors (PIM-SM [PIM-SM], PIM-SSM [PIM-SSM], and PIM-BIDIR [PIM-BIDIR]) employs a pull methodology via explicit joins instead of push technique. PIM routers periodically exchange Hello messages to discover and maintain stateful sessions with neighbors. After neighbors are Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 7] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 discovered, PIM routers can signal their intentions to join or prune specific multicast groups. This is accomplished by having downstream routers send an explicit Join/Prune message (for the sake of generalization, consider Graft messages for PIM-DM as Join messages) to the upstream routers. **** "To the upstream routers", well each downstream router sends the J/P **** messages for a particular tree to its parent node on that tree, not t= o **** all upstream routers. Only with Snooping/Proxy/Relay do J/P messages **** have to go to more than one upstream neighbor. The Join/Prune message can be group specific (*,G) or group and source specific (S,G). 2.2. General Rules for PIM Snooping in VPLS The following rules for the correct operation of PIM snooping MUST be followed. o PIM Snooping MUST NOT affect the operation of customer layer-2 protocols (e.g., BPDUs) or layer-3 protocols. **** If this means that PIM Snooping/Proxy/Relay must be invisible to the **** customer, then the requirement is violated by Proxy/Relay, as the **** latter does not flood all the same messages as would be flooded **** normally, and this affects the operation of PIM. You do mention this **** below ("Proxy loses the transparency argument"), but I don't think yo= u **** want anyone to conclude that Proxy/Relay violates this requirement. o PIM messages and multicast data traffic forwarded by PEs MUST follow the split-horizon rule for mesh PWs. o PIM snooping states in a PE MUST be per VPLS instance. o PIM assert triggers MUST be preserved to the extent necessary to avoid sending duplicate traffic to the same PE (see Section 2.2.1). 2.2.1. Preserving Assert Trigger In PIM-SM/DM, there are scenarios where multiple routers could be forwarding the same multicast traffic on a LAN. When this happens, using PIM Assert Election process by sending PIM Assert Messages, routers ensure that only the Assert Winner forwards traffic on the LAN. The Assert Election is a data driven event and happens only if a router sees traffic on the interface to which it should be forwarding the traffic. In the case of VPLS with snooping, two routers may forward the same flow at the same time but each copy may reach different set of PEs, and that is acceptable from the point of view of avoiding duplicate traffic. If the two copies may reach the same PE then the sending routers must be able to see each other's traffic, in order to trigger Assert Election and stop duplicate traffic. To achieve that, PIM-SM Snooping MUST not only forward multicast **** This capitalized "MUST" followed by lower case "not" will never make = it **** correctly through the review and editing process ;-) Either use lowe= r **** case "must", or change to "MUST forward multicast traffic for an (S,G= ) **** not only on the ports ..." = traffic for an (S,G) on the ports on which they snooped Joins(S,G)/ Joins(*,G), but also towards the upstream neighbor(s)). In other words, the ports on which the upstream neighbors are learnt must be added to the outgoing port list along with the ports on which Joins are snooped. **** Later on you say more precisely how to define "the upstream neighbors= " **** for a given (x,G). But at this point in the document it is not at al= l **** clear what you mean. At the very least, you should add something lik= e **** "See section 2.6.1 for the rules that determine the set of 'upstream **** neighbors' for a particular (x,G)." Similarly, PIM-DM Snooping SHOULD make sure that asserts can be Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 8] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 triggered (Section 2.9.3). **** Why "SHOULD" rather than "MUST"? Actually, it might be better to use **** lower case words here since you are not actually describing = **** procedures at this point. The above logic needs to be facilitated without breaking VPLS Split Horizon Rules. i.e. traffic should not be forwarded on the port on whic= h it was received, and traffic arriving on a PW MUST NOT be forwarded ont= o other PW(s). **** Not clear that "the above logic" refers to. It could be interpreted = as **** referring only to PIM-DM snooping, but I don't think that's the **** intention. Maybe it would be better just to say instead "The **** procedures for PIM Snooping/Proxy/Relay do not violate the VPLS split **** horizon rules. Traffic is never forwarded on the port over which it **** was received, and traffic received from a PW is never forwarded to **** other PWs." 2.3. Some Considerations for PIM Snooping The PIM Snooping solution described here requires a PE to examine and operate on only PIM Hello and PIM Join/Prune packets. The PE does not need to examine any other PIM packets. Most of the procedures in PIM Snooping in the handling of PIM Hellos and PIM Join/Prune packets are very similar to that of a PIM Router. However, the PE does not need to have any routing tables like is required in PIM Multicast Routing. It knows how to forward Join/ Prunes by looking at the Upstream Neighbor field in the Join/Prune packets. **** This would be a good place to say (or to have a reference to the plac= e **** that says) how the forwarding decision is made, depending on the **** upstream neighbor field. I think the a J/P with a given upstream **** neighbor is forwarded to the port from which a Hello from that upstre= am **** neighbor was received. Is that correct? **** Are there any PIM deployments in which J/Ps will be forwarded to the **** upstream neighbor even if a Hello from that neighbor hasn't yet been **** received? (I think the answer is yes.) If so, using PIM snooping in **** such a deployment would not be transparent to the customer. The PE does not need to know about Rendezvous Points (RP) and does not have to maintain any RP Set. All that is transparent to a PIM Snooping PE. In the following sub-sections, we list some considerations and observations for the implementation of PIM Snooping in VPLS. 2.3.1. Scaling Snooping needs to be employed on ACs at the downstream PEs to prevent traffic from being sent out of ACs unnecessarily. Snooping techniques can also be employed on PWs at the upstream PEs to prevent traffic from being sent to PEs unnecessarily. **** I was a bit puzzled by my first encounter with this paragraph. The **** terms "upstream" and "downstream" are only meaningful in the context = of **** a particular Join, but "snooping" means (roughly) listening for Joins= . **** So a PE has to decide whether to snoop on a particular PW or AC befor= e **** it knows whether it is "upstream" or "downstream". Perhaps the point **** is simply that (a) by snooping J/Ps and Hellos on a given port, one c= an **** avoid sending multicast data traffic on a given port if there are no **** receivers for that traffic reachable over that port, but (b) the cost **** of gaining this data transmission efficiency is that the PE has to ex= amine **** the J/Ps and Hellos received over that port, and has to maintain **** forwarding state derived from that examination. = This may work well for small to medium scale deployments. However, if there are a large number of VPLS instances with a large number of PEs per instances, then the amount of snooping required at the upstream PEs can overwhelm the upstream PEs. **** This seems to say that "snooping load" of a given PE is proportional = to **** the number of PWs emanating from that PE (one PW per PE per VPLS **** instance). But doesn't the load also depend on the number of ACs? **** Actually, if Snooping (rather than Proxy or Relay) is being used, the= n **** Join Suppression is not being used by the CEs, and I think the load o= n **** the PEs is then proportional to the total number of CEs over all the **** VPLS instances of that PE. (The number of Joins to examine will be **** proportional to the number of CEs, won't it?) There are two methods to reduce the burden on the upstream PEs. One is to use PIM Proxy as described in Section 2.6.6, to reduce the control messages forwarded by a PE. **** If Proxy is used, then the number of J/Ps a PE has to inspect seems t= o **** be proportional to the sum of number of local ACs plus the number of **** PWs. (If Relay is used, I think the maximum number of J/Ps a PE has = to **** inspect is proportional to the number of CEs in the VPLS instance.) The other is not to snoop on the PWs at all, but PEs signal the snooped states to other PEs out of band via BGP, as described in [VPLS-MCAST-TREES]. **** I'm not sure this sentence expresses its point clearly; if a PE doesn= 't **** snoop, how does it signal the snooped states? = In this document, it is assumed that Snooping is performed on PWs. **** Does this sentence really mean "it is assumed that the snooped state = is **** not being signaled via BGP"? If so, is that meant to imply that if **** [VPLS-MCAST-TREES] is used, this draft is not used? Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 9] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 2.3.2. IPv6 In VPLS, PEs forward Ethernet frames received from CEs and as such are agnostic of the layer-3 protocol used by the CEs. However, as an IGMP and PIM snooping PE, the PE would have to look deeper into the IP and IGMP/PIM packets and build snooping state based on that. The PIM Protocol specifications handle both IPv4 and IPv6. The specification for PIM Snooping in this draft can be applied to both IPv4 and IPv6 payloads. **** Are you willing to state that, at the time of this writing, there are **** no IPv6-specific PIM extensions that are incompatible with the **** procedures specified in this document? 2.3.3. PIM-SM (*,*,RP) This draft does not address (*,*,RP) states in the VPLS network. Although [PIM-SM] specifies that routers MUST support (*,*,RP) states, there are very few implementations that actually support it in actual deployments, and it is being removed from the PIM protocol in its ongoing advancement process in IETF. Given that, this draft omits the specification relating to (*,*,RP) support. **** I have no problem with this. However, it might create an operational **** problem for a SP if one of the SP's customers uses (*,*,RP). Does th= e **** SP have to determine whether its customers use this, and if so, disab= le **** PIM snooping/proxy. If a customer does use (*,*,RP), will something **** break? The draft should probably answer these questions. 2.4. PIM Snooping vs PIM Proxy The document has previously alluded to PIM Snooping/Relay/Proxy. Details on the PIM Proxy/Relay solution are discussed in Section 2.6.6. In this section, a brief description and comparison are given. 2.4.1. Differences between PIM Snooping, Relay and Proxy Differences between PIM Snooping and Proxy/Relay can be summarized as the following: +----------------------+---------------------+----------------------= -+ | PIM Snooping | PIM Relay | PIM Proxy = | +=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D|=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D+ | Join/Prune messages | Join/Prune messages | Join/Prune messages = | | snooped and flooded | snooped; forwarded | consumed. Regenerated= | | everywhere | as is out of certain| ones sent out of = | | | upstream ports | certain upstream port= s| +----------------------+---------------------+----------------------= -+ | No PIM packets | No PIM packets | New Join/Prune = | | generated. | generated | messages generated = | +----------------------+---------------------+----------------------= -+ | CE Join Suppression | CE Join Suppression | CE Join Suppression = | | not allowed | allowed | allowed = | +----------------------+---------------------+----------------------= -+ **** Re PIM snooping, instead of just saying "flooded everywhere", it mig= ht **** be better to say "flooded according to VPLS flooding procedures". **** At this point in the document, I think it is really impossible to kno= w **** what the difference between Relay and Proxy is. = Note that the differences apply only to PIM Join/Prune messages. PIM Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 10] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Hello messages are snooped and flooded in all cases. Other than the above differences, most of the procedures are common to PIM Snooping and PIM Proxy/Relay, unless specifically stated otherwise. Pure PIM Snooping PEs simply snoop on PIM packets as they are being forwarded in the VPLS. As such they truly provide transparent LAN services since no customer packets are modified or consumed or new packets introduced in the VPLS. It is also simpler to implement than PIM Proxy. However for PIM Snooping to work correctly, it is a requirement that CE routers MUST disable Join suppression in the VPLS. **** This should really be explained. Maybe something like "Otherwise, mo= st **** of the CE routers with interest in a given multicast data stream will **** fail to send J/P messages for that stream, and the PEs will not be ab= le **** to tell which ACs and/or PWs have listeners for that stream". Given that a large number of existing CE deployments do not support disabling of Join suppression and given the operational complexity for a provider to manage disabling of Join suppression in the VPLS, it becomes a difficult solution to deploy. **** Even worse, if the SP's customer happens to bring up a CE that does d= o **** Join Suppression, the customer will experience intermittent problems **** with multicast. Snooping really only seems applicable when the SP **** manages all the CEs, and can ensure that Join Suppression is disabled **** on all of them. Another disadvantage of PIM Snooping is that it does not scale as well as PIM Proxy. If there are a large number of CEs in a VPLS, then every CE will see every other CE's Join/Prune messages. **** I think the point here (which I agree with) is that disabling Join **** Suppression has a negative effect on CE scaling. You've already **** pointed out that Proxy/Relay is better for PE scaling, now it appears **** that it is also better for CE scaling. And it doesn't require carefu= l **** management of the CE deployments. Okay, I'm convinced, Snooping soun= ds **** like a really bad alternative. = PIM Proxy/Relay has the advantage that it does not require Join suppression to be disabled in the VPLS. Multicast as a VPLS service can be very easily provided without requiring any changes on the CE routers. PIM Proxy/Relay helps scale VPLS Multicast since Join/Prune messages are only sent to certain upstream ports instead of flooded, and in case of full Proxy (vs. Relay) the PEs intelligently generate only one Join/Prune message for a given flow. PIM Proxy however loses the transparency argument since Join/Prunes could get modified or even consumed at a PE. **** I guess this is the other side of the coin. But some readers may not **** know what "loses the transparency argument" means. I think the issue **** is that if two CEs are PIM adjacencies of each other across the VPLS **** backbone, the control packets that one CE sends are not necessarily t= he **** control packets that the other one receives. Thus if anything goes **** wrong there is a VPLS-specific (or PIM-Proxy-specific) component to t= he **** troubleshooting procedures. It's not clear that the folks running th= e **** enterprise network will be happy if they need to understand the SP's **** PIM Proxy procedures. Also, new packets could get introduced in the VPLS. However, this loss of transparency is limited to PIM Join/Prune packets. It is in the interest of optimizing multicast in the VPLS and helping a VPLS network scale much better. **** I'd emphasize that Proxy/Relay helps scalability for both the SP AND **** its customers. I.e., it's not one of those things that helps the SP **** while costing the customers. So if customers insist on complete **** transparency, they incur some extra cost. Data traffic will still be completely transparent. 2.4.2. PIM Control Message Latency A PIM Snooping/Proxy/Relay PE snoops on PIM Hello packets while transparently flooding them in the VPLS. As such there is no latency introduced by the VPLS in the delivery of PIM Hello packets to remote CEs in the VPLS. A PIM Snooping PE snoops on PIM Join/Prune packets while transparently flooding them in the VPLS. There is no latency introduced by the VPLS in the delivery of PIM Join/Prune packets when PIM Snooping is employed. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 11] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 A PIM Proxy/Relay PE does not simply flood PIM Join/Prune packets. This can result in additional latency for a downstream CE to receive multicast traffic after it has sent a Join. When a downstream CE prunes a multicast stream, the traffic should stop flowing to the CE with no additional latency introduced by the VPLS. **** I'm not sure I understand this latency issue. With Snooping, the **** fastpath can flood the J/Ps, but they still need to be processed in **** slowpath in order to make the requisite changes to the data forwardin= g **** states. And isn't the latency till a Join takes effect more importan= t **** than the latency till a Prune takes effect? Also, there are a lot of **** implementation-specific assumptions here. Performing only proxy of Join/Prune and not Hello messages keeps the PE behavior very similar to that of a PIM router without introducing too much additional complexity. It keeps the PIM Proxy solution fairly simple. Since Join/Prunes are forwarded by a PE along the slow-path and all other PIM packet types are forwarded along the fast-path, it is very likely that packets forwarded along the fast- path will arrive "ahead" of Join/Prune packets at a CE router (note the stress on the fact that fast-path messages will never arrive after Join/Prunes). Of particular importance are Hello packets sent along the fast-path. We can construct a variety of scenarios resulting in out of order delivery of Hellos and Join/Prune messages. However, there should be no deviation from normal expected behavior observed at the CE router receiving these messages out of order. **** But there will likely be an increased amount of this "normal expected **** behavior", which typically would be rather unusual. The question **** really is whether it is acceptable to increase this amount. I guess = if **** that's a problem, one could also "punt" the Hellos ;-) 2.4.3. When to Snoop and When to Proxy From the above descriptions, factors that affect the choice of Snooping/Relay/Proxy include: o Whether CEs do Join Suppression or not **** If the SPs don't manage the CEs, evaluating this factor may be **** difficult. = o Whether Join/Prune latency is critical or not **** How does the SP know whether it is critical to provide minimum latenc= y **** for its customers J/Ps? o Whether the scale of PIM protocol message/states in a VPLS requires the scaling benefit of Proxy Of the above factors, Join Suppression is the hard one - pure Snooping can only be used when Join Suppression is disabled on all CEs. The latency associated with Relay/Proxy is implementation dependent and may not be a concern at all with a particular implementation. The scaling benefit may not be important either, in that on a real LAN with Explicit Tracking (ET) a PIM router will need to receive and process all PIM Join/Prune messages as well. A PIM router indicates that Join Suppression is disabled if the T-bit is set in the LAN Prune Delay option of its Hello message. If all PIM routers on a LAN set the T-bit, Explicit Tracking is possible, allowing an upstream router to track all the downstream neighbors that have Join states for any (S,G) or (*,G). That has two benefits: Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 12] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 o No need for PrunePending process - the upstream router may immediately stop forwarding data when it receives a Prune from the last downstream neighbor, and immediately prune to its upstream if that's for the last downstream interface. o For management purpose, the upstream router knows exactly which downstream routers exist for a particular Join State. While full Proxy can be used with or without Join Suppression on CEs and does not interfere with an upstream CE's bypass of PrunePending process, it does proxy all its downstream CEs as a single one to the upstream, removing the second benefit mentioned above. Therefore, the general rule is that if Join Suppression is enabled on CEs then Proxy or Relay MUST be used and if Suppression is known to be disabled on all CEs then either Snooping, Relay, or Proxy MAY be used while Snooping or Relay SHOULD be used. **** I don't think anything above really makes it clear when to choose Pro= xy **** and when to choose Relay. The discussion seems more focused on when = to **** use Snooping vs. when not to use Snooping. **** Since Relay is said to be a "lightweight" version of "Proxy", the big **** unanswered question is why would someone ever want to use "Proxy" **** instead of "Relay"? Yes, I see (I think) that Proxy reduces the **** overhead through aggregation of the Joins, but this is never really **** stated straightforwardly. **** Also, the paragraph above seems to imply that Proxy SHOULD not be use= d **** if Join Suppression is known to be disabled. Is that the intention? **** Why? An implementation MAY choose dynamic determination of which mode to use, through the tracking of the above mentioned T-bit in all snooped PIM Hello messages, or MAY simply require static provisioning. **** If you use the dynamic method, you may find yourself switching back a= nd **** forth between Snooping and Proxy/Relay; the condition of "all CEs on **** the LAN set the T bit" may change if there are some CEs that set the = T **** bit and some that don't. (If a CE that doesn't set the T bit is **** flapping, this could cause flapping between Snooping and Proxy/Relay.= ) **** What are the implications of switching back and forth between Snoopin= g **** and Proxy/Relay? Will this cause any user-visible disruptions? **** Thus dynamic method seems somewhat imprudent, unless Snooping has a **** really big advantage over Proxy/Relay. **** Although the above talks about looking at the T-bit in "all snooped P= IM **** Hello messages", I think the context is "all PIM Hello messages that **** have been snooped by a given PE", rather than "all PIM Hello messages **** in the entire VPLS". Is that right? Will there be any issues if som= e **** PEs decide that Snooping is okay, but others decide to use Proxy/Rela= y? = 2.5. Discovering PIM Routers **** This section applies to Proxy/Relay as well as Snooping, doesn't it? **** That's probably worth stating explicitly, given that the previous **** section focuses on the differences between Snooping and Proxy/Relay. A PIM Snooping PE MUST snoop on PIM Hellos received on ACs and PWs. i.e. the PE transparently floods the PIM Hello while snooping on it. PIM Hellos are used by the snooping PE to discover PIM routers and their characteristics. For each neighbor discovered by a PE, it includes an entry in the PIM Neighbor Database with the following fields: o Layer 2 encapsulation for the Router sending the PIM Hello. o IP Address and address family of the Router sending the PIM Hello. o Port (AC / PW) on which the PIM Hello was received. o Hello TLVs The PE should be able to interpret and act on Hello TLVs currently defined in the PIM RFCs. The TLVs of particular interest in this document are: o Hello-Hold-Time o Tracking Support Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 13] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 o DR Priority Please refer to [PIM-SM] for a list of the Hello TLVs. When a PIM Hello is received, the PE MUST reset the neighbor-expiry-timer to Hello-Hold-Time. If a PE does not receive a Hello message from a router within Hello-Hold-Time, the PE MUST remove that neighbor from its PIM Neighbor Database. If a PE receives a Hello message from a router with Hello-Hold-Time value set to zero, the PE MUST remove that router from the PIM snooping state immediately. From the PIM Neighbor Database, a PE MUST be able to use the procedures defined in [PIM-SM] to identify the PIM Designated Router in the VPLS instance. It should also be able to determine if Tracking Support is active in the VPLS instance. 2.6. PIM-SM and PIM-SSM The key characteristic of PIM-SM and PIM-SSM is explicit join behavior. **** I'm not sure I'd identify any one characteristic as "the key **** characteristic". This is perhaps the key differentiator between PIM-= SM **** and PIM-DM, but if you were comparing PIM-SM to, say, BGP, you might **** say that the "key characteristic" is the use of datagrams and **** timer-based refreshes. Maybe what you really want to say is just **** "PIMS-SM and PIM-SSM have explicit join behavior". In this model, multicast traffic is only forwarded to locations that specifically request it. The root node of a tree is the Rendezvous Point (RP) in case of a shared tree (PIM-SM only) or the first hop router that is directly connected to the multicast source in the case of a shortest path tree. **** Of course, the FHR could be separated from the multicast source by an **** entire VPLS backbone, rather than being "directly connected" to it. **** Perhaps it would be more accurate just to say that the root of a PIM **** source tree is the PIM router that is serving as the "first hop route= r" **** for the source. All the procedures described in this section apply to both PIM-SM and PIM-SSM, except for the fact that there is no (*,G) state in PIM-SSM. 2.6.1. Building PIM-SM Snooping States **** Again, I'd mention explicitly that this applies to Proxy/Relay as wel= l. PIM-SM and PIM-SSM Snooping states are built by snooping on the PIM-SM Join/Prune messages received on AC/PWs. The downstream state machine of a PIM-SM snooping PE very closely resembles the downstream state machine of PIM-SM routers. **** Many PIM implementations have knobs that can be used to modify the **** protocol behavior in one respect or another. E.g., one deployment ma= y **** be very strict about not accepting a Join/Prune message from a router **** that has not already established a PIM adjacency with Hellos; another **** deployment may want to start the Join/Prune processing without waitin= g **** for the adjacency to be established. I wonder if PIM **** Snooping/Proxy/Relay will break if such knobs area used. Does the **** document need a "Deployment Considerations" section cataloging the **** various dependencies. The downstream state consists of: Per downstream (Port, *, G): o DownstreamJPState: One of { "NoInfo" (NI), "Join" (J), "Prune Pending" (PP) } Per downstream (Port, *, G, N): o Prune Pending Timer (PPT(N)) o Join Expiry Timer (ET(N)) Per downstream (Port, S, G): Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 14] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 o DownstreamJPState: One of { "NoInfo" (NI), "Join" (J), "Prune Pending" (PP) } Per downstream (Port, S, G, N): o Prune Pending Timer (PPT(N)) o Join Expiry Timer (ET(N)) Per downstream (Port, S, G, rpt): o DownstreamJPRptState: One of { "NoInfo" (NI), "Pruned" (P), "Prune Pending" (PP) } Per downstream (Port, S, G, rpt, N): o Prune Pending Timer (PPT(N)) o Join Expiry Timer (ET(N)) Where S is the address of the multicast source, G is the Group address and N is the upstream neighbor field in the Join/Prune message. Notice that unlike on PIM-SM routers where PPT and ET are per (Interface, S, G), PIM Snooping PEs have to maintain PPT and ET per (Port, S, G, N). The reasons for this are explained in Section 2.6.2. Apart from the above states, we define the following state summarization macros. UpstreamNeighbors(*,G): If there is one or more Join(*,G) received on any port with upstream neighbor N and ET(N) is active, then N is added to UpstreamNeighbors(*,G). This set is used to determine if a Join(*,G) or a Prune(*,G) with upstream neighbor N needs to be sent upstream. UpstreamNeighbors(S,G): If there is one or more Join(S,G) received on any port with upstream neighbor N and ET(N) is active, then N is added to UpstreamNeighbors(S,G). This set is used to determine if a Join(S,G) or a Prune(S,G) with upstream neighbor N needs to be sent upstream. UpstreamPorts(*,G): This is the set of all Rport(N) ports where N is in the set UpstreamNeighbors(*,G). Multicast Streams forwarded using a (*,G) match MUST be forwarded to these ports in addition to downstream ports. So UpstreamPorts(*,G) MUST be added to OutgoingPortList(*,G). Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 15] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 UpstreamPorts(S,G): This is the set of all Rport(N) ports where N is in the set UpstreamNeighbors(S,G). UpstreamPorts(S,G) MUST be added to OutgoingPortList(S,G). InheritedUpstreamPorts(S,G): This is the union of UpstreamPorts(S,G) and UpstreamPorts(*,G). UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt): If PruneDesired(S,G,rpt) becomes true, then this set is set to UpstreamPorts(*,G). Otherwise, this set is empty. UpstreamPorts(*,G) (-) UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) MUST be added to OutgoingPortList(S,G). UpstreamPorts(G): This set is the union of all the UpstreamPorts(S,G) and UpstreamPorts(*,G) for a given G. Proxy (S,G) Join/Prune and (*,G) Join/Prune messages MUST be sent to a subset of UpstreamPorts(G) as specified in Section 2.6.6.1. PWPorts: This is the set of all PWs. OutgoingPortList(*,G): This is the set of all ports to which traffic needs to be forwarded on a (*,G) match. OutgoingPortList(S,G): This is the set of all ports to which traffic needs to be forwarded on an (S,G) match. See Section 2.12 on Data Forwarding Rules for the specification on how OutgoingPortList is calculated. NumETsActive(Port,*,G): Number of (Port,*,G,N) entries that have Expiry Timer running. This macro keeps track of the number of Join(*,G)s that are received on this Port with different upstream neighbors. NumETsActive(Port,S,G): Number of (Port,S,G,N) entries that have Expiry Timer running. This macro keeps track of the number of Join(S,G)s that are received on this Port with different upstream neighbors. RpfVectorTlvs(*,G): RPF Vectors [RPF-VECTOR] are TLVs that may be present in received Join(*,G) messages. If present, they must be copied to RpfVectorTlvs(*,G). RpfVectorTlvs(S,G): RPF Vectors [RPF-VECTOR] are TLVs that may be present in received Join(S,G) messages. If present, they must be copied to RpfVectorTlvs(S,G). Since there are a few differences between the downstream state machines of PIM-SM Routers and PIM-SM snooping PEs, we specify the Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 16] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 details of the downstream state machine of PIM-SM snooping PEs at the risk of repeating most of the text documented in [PIM-SM]. 2.6.2. Explanation for per (S,G,N) states In PIM Routing protocols, states are built per (S,G). On a router, an (S,G) has only one RPF-Neighbor. However, a PIM Snooping PE does not have the Layer 3 routing information available to the routers in order to determine the RPF-Neighbor for a multicast flow. It merely discovers it by snooping the Join/Prune message. A PE could have snooped on two or more different Join/Prune messages for the same (S,G) that could have carried different Upstream-Neighbor fields. This could happen during transient network conditions or due to dual- homed sources. A PE cannot make assumptions on which one to pick, but instead must facilitate the CE routers decide which Upstream Neighbor gets elected the RPF-Neighbor. **** "must facilitate the CE routers decide" --> "must allow the CE router= s **** to decide" (if I understand the intention correctly) And for this purpose, the PE will have to track downstream and upstream Join/Prune per (S,G,N). 2.6.3. Receiving (*,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages A Join(*,G) or Prune(*,G) is considered "received" if the following conditions are met: o The port on which it arrived is not Rport(N) where N is the upstream-neighbor N of the Join/Prune(*,G), or, o if both RPort(N) and the arrival port are PWs, then there exists at least one other (*,G,Nx) or (Sx,G,Nx) state with an AC UpstreamPort. **** Note that you suddenly switch below from "Rport" to "RPort". Please **** search for these and make them consistent. For simplicity, the case where both RPort(N) and the arrival port are PWs is referred to as PW-only Join/Prune in this document. The PW- only Join/Prune handling is so that the RPort(N) PW can be added to the related forwarding entries' OutgoingPortList to trigger Assert, but that is only needed for those states with AC UpstreamPort. Note that in PW-only case, it is OK for the arrival port and RPort(N) to be the same. See Appendix Appendix B for examples. **** "Appendix Appendix". xml2frc artifact, I guess ;-) This occurs in **** several places. When a router receives a Join(*,G) or a Prune(*,G) with upstream neighbor N, it must process the message as defined in the state machine below. Note that the macro computations of the various macros resulting from this state machine transition is exactly as specified in the PIM-SM RFC [PIM-SM]. We define the following per-port (*,G,N) macro to help with the state machine below. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 17] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Figure 1 : Downstream per-port (*,G) state machine in tabular form +---------------++----------------------------------------+ | || Previous State | | ++------------+--------------+------------+ | Event ||NoInfo (NI) | Join (J) | Prune-Pend | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ | Receive ||-> J state | -> J state | -> J state | | Join(*,G) || Action | Action | Action | | || RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |Receive || - | -> PP state | -> PP state| |Prune(*,G) and || | Start PPT(N) | | |NumETsActive<=3D1|| | | | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |Receive || - | -> J state | - | |Prune(*,G) and || | Start PPT(N) | | |NumETsActive>1 || | | | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |PPT(N) expires || - | -> J state | -> NI state| | || | Action | Action | | || | PPTExpiry(N) |PPTExpiry(N)| +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |ET(N) expires || - | -> NI state | -> NI state| |and || | Action | Action | |NumETsActive<=3D1|| | ETExpiry(N) | ETExpiry(N)| +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |ET(N) expires || - | -> J state | - | |and || | Action | | |NumETsActive>1 || | ETExpiry(N) | | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ Action RxJoin(N): If ET(N) is not already running, then start ET(N). Otherwise restart ET(N). If N is not already in UpstreamNeighbors(*,G), then add N to UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) and trigger a Join(*,G) with upstream neighbor N to be forwarded upstream. If there are RPF Vector TLVs in the received (*,G) message and if they are different from the recorded RpfVectorTlvs(*,G), then copy them into RpfVectorTlvs(*,G). Action PPTExpiry(N): Same as Action ETExpiry(N) below, plus Send a Prune-Echo(*,G) with upstream-neighbor N on the downstream port. Action ETExpiry(N): Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 18] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Disable timers ET(N) and PPT(N). Delete neighbor state (Port,*,G,N). If there are no other (Port,*,G) states with NumETsActive(Port,*,G) > 0, transition DownstreamJPState to NoInfo. If there are no other (Port,*,G,N) state (different ports but for the same N), remove N from UpstreamPorts(*,G) - this also serves as a trigger for US FSM (JoinDesired(*,G,N) becomes FALSE). 2.6.4. Receiving (S,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages A Join(S,G) or Prune(S,G) is considered "received" if the following conditions are met: o The port on which it arrived is not Rport(N) where N is the upstream-neighbor N of the Join/Prune(S,G), or, o if both RPort(N) and the arrival port are PWs, then there exists at least one other (*,G,Nx) or (S,G,Nx) state with an AC UpstreamPort. For simplicity, the case where both RPort(N) and the arrival port are PWs is referred to as PW-only Join/Prune in this document. The PW- only Join/Prune handling is so that the RPort(N) PW can be added to the related forwarding entries' OutgoingPortList to trigger Assert, but that is only needed for those states with AC UpstreamPort. See Appendix Appendix B for examples. **** Appendix Appendix **** Doesn't this violate split horizon? When a router receives a Join(S,G) or a Prune(S,G) with upstream neighbor N, it must process the message as defined in the state machine below. Note that the macro computations of the various macros resulting from this state machine transition is exactly as specified in the PIM-SM RFC [PIM-SM]. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 19] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Figure 2: Downstream per-port (S,G) state machine in tabular form +---------------++----------------------------------------+ | || Previous State | | ++------------+--------------+------------+ | Event ||NoInfo (NI) | Join (J) | Prune-Pend | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ | Receive ||-> J state | -> J state | -> J state | | Join(S,G) || Action | Action | Action | | || RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |Receive || - | -> PP state | -> PP state| |Prune (S,G) and|| | Start PPT(N) | | |NumETsActive<=3D1|| | | | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |Receive || - | -> J state | - | |Prune(S,G) and || | Start PPT(N) | | NumETsActive>1 || | | | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |PPT(N) expires || - | -> J state | -> NI state| | || | Action | Action | | || | PPTExpiry(N) |PPTExpiry(N)| +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |ET(N) expires || - | -> NI state | -> NI state| |and || | Action | Action | |NumETsActive<=3D1|| | ETExpiry(N) | ETExpiry(N)| +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ |ET(N) expires || - | -> J state | - | |and || | Action | | |NumETsActive>1 || | ETExpiry(N) | | +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ Action RxJoin(N): If ET(N) is not already running, then start ET(N). Otherwise, restart ET(N). If N is not already in UpstreamNeighbors(S,G), then add N to UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) and trigger a Join(S,G) with upstream neighbor N to be forwarded upstream. If there are RPF Vector TLVs in the received (S,G) message and if they are different from the recorded RpfVectorTlvs(S,G), then copy them into RpfVectorTlvs(S,G). Action PPTExpiry(N): Same as Action ETExpiry(N) below, plus Send a Prune-Echo(S,G) with upstream-neighbor N on the downstream port. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 20] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Action ETExpiry(N): Disable timers ET(N) and PPT(N). Delete neighbor state (Port,S,G,N). If there are no other (Port,S,G) states with NumETsActive(Port,S,G) > 0, transition DownstreamJPState to NoInfo. If there are no other (Port,S,G,N) state (different ports but for the same N), remove N from UpstreamPorts(S,G) - this also serves as a trigger for US FSM (JoinDesired(S,G,N) becomes FALSE). 2.6.5. Receiving (S,G,rpt) Join/Prune Messages A Join(S,G,rpt) or Prune(S,G,rpt) is "received" when the port on which it was received is not also the port on which the upstream- neighbor N of the Join/Prune(S,G,rpt) was learnt. While it is important to ensure that the (S,G) and (*,G) state machines allow for handling per (S,G,N) states, it is not as important for (S,G,rpt) states. It suffices to say that the downstream (S,G,rpt) state machine is the same as what is defined in section 4.5.4 of the PIM-SM RFC [PIM-SM]. 2.6.6. Sending Join/Prune Messages Upstream This section applies only to a PIM Proxy/Relay PE and not to a PIM Snooping PE. **** I wonder if "Proxy/Relay" could be put into the section title, so it **** will show up in the ToC. A full PIM Proxy (not Relay) PE MUST implement the Upstream FSM for which the procedures are similar to what is defined in section 4.5.6 of [PIM-SM]. For the purposes of the Upstream FSM, a Join or Prune message with upstream neighbor N is "seen" on a PIM Snooping PE if the port on which the message was received is also Rport(N), and the port is an AC. The AC requirement is needed because a Join received on the Rport(N) PW must not suppress this PE's Join on that PW. A PIM Relay PE does not implement the Upstream FSM. It simply forwards received Join/Prune messages out of the same set of upstream ports as in the PIM Proxy case. **** I'm still not following: what is the functional difference between **** Proxy and Relay? Why would one choose to do Proxy over Relay? What **** functionality does Proxy provide that Relay does not? In order to correctly facilitate assert among the CE routers, such Join/Prunes need to sent not only towards the upstream neighbor, but also on certain PWs as described below. If RpfVectorTlvs(*,G) is not empty, then it must be encoded in a Join(*,G) message sent upstream. If RpfVectorTlvs(S,G) is not empty, then it must be encoded in a Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 21] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Join(S,G) message sent upstream. 2.6.6.1. Where to send Join/Prune messages The following rules apply, to both forwarded (in case of PIM Relay), refresh and triggered (in case of PIM Proxy) (S,G)/(*,G) Join/Prune messages. o The upstream neighbor field in the Join/Prune to be sent is set to the N in the corresponding Upstream FSM. o if Rport(N) is an AC, send the message to Rport(N). o Additionally, if OutgoingPortList(X,G,N) contains at lease one AC, **** lease --> least then the message MUST be sent to at least all the PWs in UpstreamPorts(G) (for (*,G)) or InheritedUpstreamPorts(S,G) (for (S,G)). Alternatively, the message MAY be sent to all PWs. **** Is there any possibility of violating split horizon if the message is **** sent to all PWs? Sending to a subset of PWs as described above guarantees that if traffic (of the same flow) from two upstream routers were to reach this PE, then the two routers will receive from each other, triggering assert. Sending to all PWs guarantees that if two upstream routers both send traffic for the same flow (even if it is to different sets of downstream PEs), then they'll receive from each other, triggering assert. **** Do all PEs in a given VPLS instance have to follow the same policy **** (send to subset of PWs vs. send to all PWs)? 2.7. Bidirectional-PIM (PIM-BIDIR) PIM-BIDIR is a variation of PIM-SM. The main differences between PIM-SM and Bidirectional-PIM are as follows: o There are no source-based trees, and source-specific multicast is not supported (i.e., no (S,G) states) in PIM- BIDIR. o Multicast traffic can flow up the shared tree in PIM-BIDIR. o To avoid forwarding loops, one router on each link is elected as the Designated Forwarder (DF) for each RP in PIM-BIDIR. The main advantage of PIM-BIDIR is that it scales well for many-to- many applications. However, the lack of source-based trees means that multicast traffic is forced to remain on the shared tree. As described in [PIM-BIDIR], parts of a PIM-BIDIR enabled network may forward traffic without exchanging Join/Prune messages, for instance between DF's and the RPL. **** First use of term "RPL", hasn't been defined in this draft. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 22] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 As the described procedures for Pim snooping rely on the presence of Join/Prune messages, enabling Pim snooping on PIM-BIDIR networks could break the PIM-BIDIR functionality. Deploying Pim snooping on PIM-BIDIR enabled networks will require some further study. Some thoughts are gathered in Appendix A. **** Does this mean that the SP cannot use Snooping/Proxy/Relay at all if **** its customer uses BIDIR? If a customer turns on BIDIR without **** informing its SP, will the customer cause problems for itself? That **** doesn't seem too good, especially if the customer thinks it is gettin= g **** a transparent L2 service. 2.8. Interaction with IGMP Snooping Whenever IGMP Snooping is enabled in conjunction with PIM Snooping in the same VPLS instance the PE SHOULD follow these rules: o To maintain the list of multicast routers and ports on which they are attached, the PE SHOULD NOT use the rules as described in RFC4541 [IGMP-SNOOP] but SHOULD rely on the neighbors discovered by PIM Snooping . This list SHOULD then be used to apply the forwarding rule as described in 2.1.1.(1) of RFC4541 [IGMP-SNOOP]. o If the PE supports proxy-reporting, an IGMP membership learned only on a port to which a PIM neighbor is attached but not elsewhere SHOULD NOT be included in the summarized upstream report sent to that port. 2.9. PIM-DM The characteristics of PIM-DM is flood and prune behavior. Shortest path trees are built as a multicast source starts transmitting. **** Darn it, I was hoping to read that PIM-DM is "out of scope" ;-) 2.9.1. Building PIM-DM Snooping States PIM-DM Snooping states are built by snooping on the PIM-DM Join, Prune, Graft and State Refresh messages received on AC/PWs and State- Refresh Messages sent on AC/PWs. By snooping on these PIM-DM messages, a PE builds the following states per (S,G,N) where S is the address of the multicast source, G is the Group address and N is the upstream neighbor to which Prunes/Grafts are sent by downstream CEs: Per PIM (S,G,N): Port PIM (S,G,N) Prune State: * DownstreamPState(S,G,N,Port): One of {"NoInfo" (NI), "Pruned" (P), "PrunePending" (PP)} * Prune Pending Timer (PPT) Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 23] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 * Prune Timer (PT) * Upstream Port (valid if the PIM(S,G,N) Prune State is "Pruned"). 2.9.2. PIM-DM Downstream Per-Port PIM(S,G,N) State Machine The downstream per-port PIM(S,G,N) state machine is as defined in section 4.4.2 of [PIM-DM] with a few changes relevant to PIM Snooping. When reading section 4.4.2 of [PIM-DM] for the purposes of PIM-Snooping please be aware that the downstream states are built per (S, G, N, Downstream-Port} in PIM-Snooping and not per {Downstream- Interface, S, G} as in a PIM-DM router. As noted in the previous Section 2.9.1, the states (DownstreamPState) and timers (PPT and PT) are per (S,G,N,P). 2.9.3. Triggering ASSERT election in PIM-DM Since PIM-DM is a flood-and-prune protocol, traffic is flooded to all routers unless explicitly pruned. Since PIM-DM routers do not prune on non-RPF interfaces, PEs should typically not receive Prunes on Rport(RPF-neighbor). So the asserting routers should typically be in pim_oiflist(S,G). In most cases, assert election should occur naturally without any special handling since data traffic will be forwarded to the asserting routers. However, there are some scenarios where a prune might be received on a port which is also an upstream port (UP). If we prune the port from pim_oiflist(S,G), then it would not be possible for the asserting routers to determine if traffic arrived on their downstream port. This can be fixed by adding pim_iifs(S,G) to pim_oiflist(S,G) so that data traffic flows to the UP ports. 2.10. PIM Proxy As noted earlier, PIM Snooping will work correctly only if Join Suppression is disabled in the VPLS. If Join Suppression is enabled in the VPLS, then PEs MUST do PIM Proxy/Relay for VPLS Multicast to work correctly. This section applies specifically to the full Proxy case and not Relay. 2.10.1. Upstream PIM Proxy behavior A PIM Proxy PE consumes Join/Prune messages and regenerates PIM Join/ Prune messages to be sent upstream by implementing Upstream FSM as specified in the PIM RFC. This is the only difference from PIM Relay. **** Is the idea that Proxy aggregates all downstream Joins for (x,G), whi= le **** Relay does not? That's an interesting advantage over Relay (and **** Snooping) that is never quite mentioned explicitly. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 24] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 The source IP address in PIM packets sent upstream SHOULD be the address of a PIM downstream neighbor in the corresponding join/prune state. **** How do you choose which one, and when do you need to change it? The address picked MUST NOT be the upstream neighbor field to be encoded in the packet. The layer 2 encapsulation for the selected source IP address MUST be the encapsulation recorded in the PIM Neighbor database for that IP address. 2.11. Directly Connected Multicast Source If there is a source in the CE network that connects directly into the VPLS instance, then multicast traffic from that source MUST be sent to all PIM routers on the VPLS instance apart from the IGMP receivers in the VPLS. **** "apart from"? Why isn't it "in addition to"? **** Could you include an explanation of why the traffic from that source **** must be sent to all the PIM routers? If there is already (S,G) or (*,G) snooping state that is formed on any PE, this will not happen per the current forwarding rules and guidelines. So, in order to determine if traffic needs to be flooded to all routers, a PE must be able to determine if the traffic came from a host on that LAN. There are three ways to address this problem: o The PE would have to do ARP snooping to determine if a source is directly connected. **** Are there any issues if a router is doing proxy ARP for a host behind **** it? = o Another option is to have configuration on all PEs to say there are CE sources that are directly connected to the VPLS instance and disallow snooping for the groups for which the source is going to send traffic. This way traffic from that source to those groups will always be flooded within the provider network. **** This would require customer/SP coordination on a per-group basis. **** While such coordination is sometimes necessary, I think it would be **** difficult if the customer is not going to get any added functionality **** from it. o A third option is to require that sources of CE multicast traffic must be behind a router. This document recommends the third option - sources traffic must be behind a router. **** I agree. But this is an important applicability restriction, and it'= s **** buried quite deep in the document. = 2.12. Data Forwarding Rules First we define the rules that are common to PIM-SM and PIM-DM PEs. Forwarding rules for each protocol type is specified in the sub- sections. If there is no matching forwarding state, then the PE SHOULD discard the packet, i.e., the UserDefinedPortList below SHOULD be empty. The following general rules MUST be followed when forwarding multicast traffic in a VPLS: Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 25] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 o Traffic arriving on a port MUST NOT be forwarded back onto the same port. o Due to VPLS Split-Horizon rules, traffic ingressing on a PW MUST NOT be forwarded to any other PW. 2.12.1. PIM-SM Data Forwarding Rules Per the rules in [PIM-SM] and per the additional rules specified in this document, OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D immediate_olist(*,G) (+) UpstreamPorts(*,G) (+) Rport(PimDR) OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D inherited_olist(S,G) (+) UpstreamPorts(S,G) (+) (UpstreamPorts(*,G) (-) UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt)) (+) Rport(PimDR) [PIM-SM] specifies how immediate_olist(*,G) and inherited_olist(S,G) are built. PimDR is the IP address of the PIM DR in the VPLS. The PIM-SM Snooping forwarding rules are defined below in pseudocode: Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 26] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 BEGIN iif is the incoming port of the multicast packet. S is the Source IP Address of the multicast packet. G is the Destination IP Address of the multicast packet. If there is (S,G) state on the PE Then OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList(S,G) Else if there is (*,G) state on the PE Then OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList(*,G) Else OutgoingPortList =3D UserDefinedPortList Endif If iif is an AC Then OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList (-) iif Else ## iif is a PW OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList (-) PWPorts Endif Forward the packet to OutgoingPortList. END First if there is (S,G) state on the PE, then the set of outgoing ports is OutgoingPortList(S,G). Otherwise if there is (*,G) state on the PE, the set of outgoing ports is OutgoingPortList(*,G). The packet is forwarded to the selected set of outgoing ports while observing the general rules above in Section 2.12 2.12.2. PIM-DM Data Forwarding Rules The PIM-DM Snooping data forwarding rules are defined below in pseudocode: Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 27] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 BEGIN iif is the incoming port of the multicast packet. S is the Source IP Address of the multicast packet. G is the Destination IP Address of the multicast packet. If there is (S,G) state on the PE Then OutgoingPortList =3D olist(S,G) Else OutgoingPortList =3D UserDefinedPortList Endif If iif is an AC Then OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList (-) iif Else ## iif is a PW OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList (-) PWPorts Endif Forward the packet to OutgoingPortList. END If there is forwarding state for (S,G), then forward the packet to olist(S,G) while observing the general rules above in section Section 2.12 [PIM-DM] specifies how olist(S,G) is constructed. 3. IANA Considerations This document makes no request of IANA. Note to RFC Editor: this section may be removed on publication as an RFC. 4. Security Considerations Security considerations provided in VPLS solution documents (i.e., [VPLS-LDP] and [VPLS-BGP]) apply to this document as well. 5. Contributors Yetik Serbest, Suresh Boddapati co-authored earlier versions. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 28] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 Karl (Xiangrong) Cai and Princy Elizabeth made significant contributions to bring the specification to its current state, especially in the area of Join forwarding rules. 6. Acknowledgements Many members of the L2VPN and PIM working groups have contributed to and provided valuable comments and feedback to this draft, including Vach Kompella, Shane Amante, Sunil Khandekar, Rob Nath, Marc Lassere, Yuji Kamite, Yiqun Cai, Ali Sajassi, Jozef Raets, Himanshu Shah (Ciena), Himanshu Shah (Alcatel-Lucent). 7. References 7.1. Normative References [PIM-BIDIR] Handley, M., Kouvelas, I., Speakman, T., and L. Vicisano, "Bidirectional Protocol Independent Multicast (BIDIR- PIM)", RFC 5015, 2007. [PIM-DM] Adams, A., Nicholas, J., and W. Siadak, "Protocol Independent Multicast Version 2 - Dense Mode Specification", RFC 3973, 2005. [PIM-SM] Fenner, B., Handley, M., Holbrook, H., and I. Kouvelas, "Protocol Independent Multicast- Sparse Mode (PIM-SM): Protocol Specification (Revised)", RFC 4601, 2006. [PIM-SSM] Holbrook, H. and B. Cain, "Source-Specific Multicast for IP", RFC 4607, 2006. [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, 1997. [RPF-VECTOR] Wijnands, I., Boers, A., and E. Rosen, "The Reverse Path Forwarding (RPF) Vector TLV", RFC 5496, 2009. 7.2. Informative References [IGMP-SNOOP] Christensen, M., Kimball, K., and F. Solensky, "Considerations for IGMP and MLD Snooping PEs", RFC 4541, 2006. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 29] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 [VPLS-BGP] Kompella, K. and Y. Rekhter, "Virtual Private LAN Service using BGP for Auto-Discovery and Signaling", RFC 4761, 2007. [VPLS-LDP] Lasserre, M. and V. Kompella, "Virtual Private LAN Services using LDP Signaling", RFC 4762, 2007. [VPLS-MCAST-REQ] Kamite, Y., Wada, Y., Serbest, Y., Morin, T., and L. Fang, "Requirements for Multicast Support in Virtual Private LAN Services", RFC 5501, 2009. [VPLS-MCAST-TREES] Aggarwal, R., Kamite, Y., Fang, L., and Y. Rekhter, "Multicast in VPLS", draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-mcast-11, Work in Progress. Appendix A. PIM-BIDIR Thoughts **** I don't understand the purpose of this Appendix. If the procedures **** below work, why aren't they in the body of the draft? If they don't **** work, why are they described here. = This section describes some guidelines that may be used to preserve PIM-BIDIR functionality in combination with Pim Snooping. In order to preserve PIM-BIDIR Pim snooping routers need to set up forwarding states so that : o on the RPL all traffic is forwarded to all Rport(N) **** What about received on PW, sent on PW? = o on any other interface traffic is always forwarded to the DF The information needed to setup these states may be obtained by : o determining the mapping between group(range) and RP o snooping and storing DF election information o determining where the RPL is, this could be achieved by static configuration, or by combining the information mentioned in previous bullets. A.1. PIM-BIDIR Data Forwarding Rules The PIM-BIDIR Snooping forwarding rules are defined below in pseudocode: Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 30] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 BEGIN iif is the incoming port of the multicast packet. G is the Destination IP Address of the multicast packet. If there is forwarding state for G Then OutgoingPortList =3D olist(G) Else OutgoingPortList =3D UserDefinedPortList Endif If iif is an AC Then OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList (-) iif Else ## iif is a PW OutgoingPortList =3D OutgoingPortList (-) PWPorts Endif Forward the packet to OutgoingPortList. END If there is forwarding state for G, then forward the packet to olist(G) while observing the general rules above in Section 2.12 [PIM-BIDIR] specifies how olist(G) is constructed. Appendix B. Example Network Scenario Let us consider the scenario in Figure 3. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 31] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 An Example Network for Triggering Assert +------+ AC3 +------+ | PE2 |-----| CE3 | /| | +------+ / +------+ | / | | / | | /PW12 | | / | /---\ / |PW23 | S | / | \---/ / | | / | | / | | +------+ / +------+ | +------+ | PE1 |/ PW13 | PE3 | +------+ | CE1 |-----| |-------------| |-----| CE4 | +------+ AC1 +------+ +------+ AC4 +------+ | |AC2 +------+ | CE2 | +------+ In the examples below, JT(Port,S,G,N) is the downstream Join Expiry Timer on the specified Port for the (S,G) with upstream neighbor N. B.1. Pim Snooping Example In the network depicted in Figure 3, S is the source of a multicast stream (S,G). CE1 and CE2 both have two ECMP routes to reach the source. 1. CE1 Sends a Join(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor(S,G) =3D CE3. 2. PE1 snoops on the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding states since it is received on an AC. It also floods the Join(S,G) in the VPLS. PE2 snoops on the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding state since the Join(= S,G) is targeting a neighbor residing on an AC. PE3 does not create forwarding state for (S,G) because this is a PW-only join and there= is neither existing (*,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G) nor a= n existing (S,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G). Both PE2 and= PE3 will also flood the Join(S,G) in the VPLS The resulting states at the PEs is as follows: At PE1: JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) =3D JP_HoldTime UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 32] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW12 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { AC1, PW12 } At PE2: JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) =3D JP_HoldTime UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { AC3 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW12, AC3 } At PE3: No (S,G) state 3. The multicast stream (S,G) flows along CE3 -> PE2 -> PE1 -> CE1 4. Now CE2 sends a Join(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor(S,G) =3D CE4. 5. All PEs snoop on the Join(S,G), build forwarding state and flood th= e Join(S,G) in the VPLS. Note that for PE2 even though this is a PW-o= nly join, forwarding state is built on this Join(S,G) since PE2 has exi= sting (S,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G) The resulting states at the PEs: At PE1: JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) =3D active JT(AC2,S,G,CE4) =3D JP_HoldTime UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3, CE4 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW12, PW13 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { AC1, PW12, AC2, PW13 } At PE2: JT(PW12,S,G,CE4) =3D JP_HoldTime JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3, CE4 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { AC3, PW23 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW12, AC3, PW23 } At PE3: JT(PW13,S,G,CE4) =3D JP_HoldTime UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { AC4 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW13, AC4 } 6. The multicast stream (S,G) flows into the VPLS from the two CEs CE3 and CE4. PE2 forwards the stream received from CE3 to PW23 and PE3 forwards the stream to AC4. This facilitates the CE routers to trigger assert election. Let us say CE3 becomes the assert winner. 7. CE3 sends an Assert message to the VPLS. The PEs flood the Assert message without examining it. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 33] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 8. CE4 stops sending the multicast stream to the VPLS. 9. CE2 notices an RPF change due to Assert and sends a Prune(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor =3D CE4. CE2 also sends a Join(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor =3D CE3. 10. All the PEs start a prune-pend timer on the ports on which they received the Prune(S,G). When the prune-pend timer expires, all PEs will remove the downstream (S,G,CE4) states. Resulting states at the PEs: At PE1: JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW12 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { AC1, AC2, PW12 } At PE2: JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { AC3 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW12, AC3 } At PE3: JT(PW13,S,G,CE3) =3D JP_HoldTime UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW23 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW13, PW23 } Note that at this point at PE3, since there is no AC in OutgoingPortList(S,G) and no (*,G) or (S,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G) or UpstreamPorts(S,G) respectively, the existin= g (S,G) state at PE3 can also be removed. So finally: At PE3: No (S,G) state Note that at the end of the assert election, there should be no duplicate traffic forwarded downstream and traffic should flow only on the desired path. Also note that there are no unnecessary (S,G) states on PE3 after the assert election. B.2. PIM Proxy Example with (S,G) / (*,G) interaction In the same network, let us assume CE4 is the Upstream Neighbor towards the RP for G. JPST(S,G,N) is the JP sending timer for the (S,G) with upstream neighbor N. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 34] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 1. CE1 Sends a Join(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor(S,G) =3D CE3. 2. PE1 consumes the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding state since the Join(S,G) is received on an AC. PE2 consumes the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding state since the Join(S,G) is targeting a neighbor residing on an AC. PE3 consumes the Join(S,G) but does not create forwarding state for (S,G) since this is a PW-only join and there is neither existing (*= ,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G) nor an existing (S,G) state = with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G) The resulting states at the PEs is as follows: PE1 states: JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) =3D JP_HoldTime JPST(S,G,CE3) =3D t_periodic UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW12 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { AC1, PW12 } PE2 states: JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) =3D JP_HoldTime JPST(S,G,CE3) =3D t_periodic UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { AC3 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW12, AC3 } PE3 states: No (S,G) state Joins are triggered as follows: PE1 triggers a Join(S,G) targeting CE3. Since the Join(S,G) was rec= eived on an AC and is targeting a neighbor that is residing across a PW, = the triggered Join(S,G) is sent on all PWs. PE2 triggers a Join(S,G) targeting CE3. Since the Joins(S,G) is targeting a neighbor residing on an AC, it only sends the join on A= C3. PE3 ignores the Join(S,G) since this is a PW-only join and there is neither existing (*,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G) nor a= n existing (S,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G) 3. The multicast stream (S,G) flows along CE3 -> PE2 -> PE1 -> CE1. 4. Now let us say CE2 sends a Join(*,G) with UpstreamNeighbor(*,G) =3D= CE4. Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 35] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 5. PE1 consumes the Join(*,G) and builds forwarding state since the Join(*,G) is received on an AC. PE2 consumes the Join(*,G) and though this is a PW-only join, forwa= rding state is build on this Join(*,G) since PE2 has existing (S,G) state= with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G). However, since this is a PW-only join,= PE2 only adds the PW towards PE3 (PW23) into UpstreamPorts(*,G) and hen= ce into OutgoingPortList(*,G). It does not add the PW towards PE1 (PW1= 2) into OutgoingPortsList(*,G) PE3 consumes the Join(*,G) and builds forwarding state since the Join(*,G) is targeting a neighbor residing on an AC. The resulting states at the PEs is as follows: PE1 states: JT(AC1,*,G,CE4) =3D JP_HoldTime JPST(*,G,CE4) =3D t_periodic UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(*,G) =3D { PW13 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { AC2, PW13 } JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) =3D active JPST(S,G,CE3) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW12 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { AC1, PW12, PW13 } PE2 states: JT(PW12,*,G,CE4) =3D JP_HoldTime UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(G) =3D { PW23 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { PW23 } JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) =3D active JPST(S,G,CE3) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { AC3 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW12, AC3, PW23 } PE3 states: JT(PW13,*,G,CE4) =3D JP_HoldTime JPST(*,G,CE4) =3D t_periodic UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(*,G) =3D { AC4 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { PW13, AC4 } Joins are triggered as follows: Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 36] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 PE1 triggers a Join(*,G) targeting CE4. Since the Join(*,G) was rec= eived on an AC and is targeting a neighbor that is residing across a PW, = the triggered Join(S,G) is sent on all PWs. PE2 does not trigger a Join(*,G) based on this join since this is a PW-only join. PE3 triggers a Join(*,G) targeting CE4. Since the Join(*,G) is targ= eting a neighbor residing on an AC, it only sends the join on AC4. 6. In case traffic is not flowing yet (i.e. step 3 is delayed to come = after step 6) and in the interim JPST(S,G,CE3) on PE1 expires, causing it= to send a refresh Join(S,G) targeting CE3, since the refresh Join(S,G)= is targeting a neighbor that is residing across a PW, the refresh Join= (S,G) is sent on all PWs. 7. Note that PE1 refreshes its JT timer based on reception of refresh = joins from CE1 and CE2 PE2 consumes the Join(S,G) and refreshes the JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) timer= . PE3 consumes the Join(S,G). It also builds forwarding state on this Join(S,G), even though this is a PW-only join, since now PE2 has ex= isting (*,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G). However, since this i= s a PW-only join, PE3 only adds the PW towards PE2 (PW23) into UpstreamPorts(S,G) and hence into OutgoingPortList(S,G). It does no= t add the PW towards PE1 (PW13) into OutgoingPortList(S,G). PE3 States: JT(PW13,*,G,CE4) =3D active JPST(S,G,CE4) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(*,G) =3D { AC4 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { PW13, AC4 } JT(PW13,S,G,CE3) =3D JP_HoldTime UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(*,G) =3D { PW23 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { PW13, AC4, PW23 } Joins are triggered as follows: PE2 already has (S,G) state, so it does not trigger a Join(S,G) based on reception of this refresh join. PE3 does not trigger a Join(S,G) based on this join since this is a PW-only join. 8. The multicast stream (S,G) flows into the VPLS from the two Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 37] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 CEs, CE3 and CE4. PE2 forwards the stream received from CE3 to PW12 and PW23. At the same time PE3 forwards the stream received from CE4 to PW13 and PW23. The stream received over PW12 and PW13 is forwarded by PE1 to AC1 and AC2. The stream received by PE3 over PW23 is forwarded to AC4. The stream received by PE2 over PW23 is forwarded to AC3. Either of these facilitates the CE routers to trigger assert election. 9. CE3 and/or CE4 send(s) Assert message(s) to the VPLS. The PEs flood the Assert message(s) without examining it. 10. CE3 becomes the (S,G) assert winner and CE4 stops sending the multicast stream to the VPLS. 11. CE2 notices an RPF change due to Assert and sends a Prune(S,G,rpt) with Upstream Neighbor =3D CE4. 12. PE1 consumes the Prune(S,G,rpt) and since PruneDesired(S,G,Rpt,CE4)= is TRUE, it triggers a Prune(S,G,rpt) to CE4. Since the prune is targeting a neighbor across a PW, it is sent on all PWs. PE2 consumes the Prune(S,G,rpt) and does not trigger any prune based on this Prune(S,G,rpt) since this was a PW-only prune. PE3 consumes the Prune(S,G,rpt) and since PruneDesired(S,G,rpt,CE4) is TRUE it sends the Prune(S,G,rpt) on AC4. PE1 states: JT(AC2,*,G,CE4) =3D active JPST(*,G,CE4) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(*,G) =3D { PW13 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { AC2, PW13 } JT(AC2,S,G,CE4) =3D JP_Holdtime with FLAG sgrpt prune JPST(S,G,CE4) =3D none, since this is sent along with the Join(*,G) to CE4 based on JPST(*,G,CE4) expiry UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) =3D { PW13 } UpstreamNeighbors(S,G,rpt) =3D { CE4 } JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) =3D active JPST(S,G,CE3) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW12 } Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 38] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { AC1, PW12, AC2 } At PE2: JT(PW12,*,G,CE4) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(*,G) =3D { PW23 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { PW23 } JT(PW12,S,G,CE4) =3D JP_Holdtime with FLAG sgrpt prune JPST(S,G,CE4) =3D none, since this was created off a PW-only prune UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) =3D { PW23 } UpstreamNeighbors(S,G,rpt) =3D { CE4 } JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) =3D active JPST(S,G,CE3) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { AC3 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { PW12, AC3 } At PE3: JT(PW13,*,G,CE4) =3D active JPST(*,G,CE4) =3D active UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(*,G) =3D { AC4 } OutgoingPortList(*,G) =3D { PW13, AC4 } JT(PW13,S,G,CE4) =3D JP_Holdtime with S,G,rpt prune fl= ag JPST(S,G,CE4) =3D none, since this is sent along with the Join(*,G) to CE4 based on JPST(*,G,CE4) expiry UpstreamNeighbors(S,G,rpt) =3D { CE4 } UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) =3D { AC4 } JT(PW13,S,G,CE3) =3D active JPST(S,G,CE3) =3D none, since this state is created by PW-only join UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) =3D { CE3 } UpstreamPorts(S,G) =3D { PW23 } OutgoingPortList(S,G) =3D { PW23 } Even in this example, at the end of the (S,G) / (*,G) assert election, there should be no duplicate traffic forwarded downstream and traffic should flow only to the desired CEs. However, the reason we don't have duplicate traffic is because one of the CEs stops sending traffic due to assert, not because we don't Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 39] =0C Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 have any forwarding state in the PEs to do this forwarding. Authors' Addresses Olivier Dornon Alcatel-Lucent 50 Copernicuslaan Antwerp, B2018 Email: olivier.dornon@alcatel-lucent.com Jayant Kotalwar Alcatel-Lucent 701 East Middlefield Rd. Mountain View, CA 94043 Email: jayant.kotalwar@alcatel-lucent.com Venu Hemige Email: vhemige@gmail.com Ray Qiu Juniper Networks, Inc. 1194 North Mathilda Avenue Sunnyvale, CA 94089 Email: rqiu@juniper.net Jeffrey Zhang Juniper Networks, Inc. 10 Technology Park Drive Westford, MA 01886 Email: zzhang@juniper.net Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 40] =0C From nobody Mon Aug 18 20:17:17 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 22F471A01D5 for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2014 20:17:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id lSzVWko9SVEb for ; Mon, 18 Aug 2014 20:16:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BDB51A8796 for ; Mon, 18 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X-Spam-Score: 1.432 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.432 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, GB_SUMOF=1, J_CHICKENPOX_24=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_31=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_41=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_51=0.6, J_CHICKENPOX_81=0.6, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id f5kfIw8ocdTL for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:27:22 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpida-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.21]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C5BE91A03A8 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:27:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.42]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 6929C47E76C13 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:27:16 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s7JFRHrQ032435 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL) for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:27:18 +0200 Received: from [138.203.14.185] (135.239.27.39) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (135.239.2.74) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.2.247.3; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:27:17 +0200 Message-ID: <53F36CD4.8000404@alcatel-lucent.com> Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:27:16 +0200 From: Olivier Dornon User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.5.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Subject: Re: Comments on draft-ietf-l2vpn-pim-snooping-06 References: <31068.1408381967@erosen-lnx> In-Reply-To: <31068.1408381967@erosen-lnx> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-1"; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Originating-IP: [135.239.27.39] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/Rq0unsLYD1i7MZXdrOdddk3mpWA X-Mailman-Approved-At: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 08:33:38 -0700 X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:27:31 -0000 Eric, Thanks for your thorough review, please give us some time to process it all and we'll get you an updated version. Thanks, Olivier. On 08/18/2014 07:12 PM, erosen@cisco.com wrote: > I was asked to do a reivew of draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-pim-snooping-06; here > are my questions and comments. > > Overall I think the draft is in good shape, and I don't really see any > reason why it wouldn't work. I do think the procedures add complexity to > VPLS, as they really get into the details of the PIM state machines. The > advantage of the procedures is that they reduce bandwidth waste, by sending > multicast streams only where they need to go, rather than by flooding them > through the VPLS instance. This tradeoff will have to be evaluated by the > individual SPs. > > First, a couple of minor editorial comments: > > - The use of capitalization for the defined terms needs to be made > consistent. > > For example, mid-way through the data the term "RPort" becomes "rport", > and it wasn't obvious to me at first whether this difference was > intentional or not (I believe not). The RFC Editor generally finds these > issues, but it's better to get them fixed before the AUTH48 period. > > Also watch for "PIM" vs. "Pim". > > - There are a number of places where a rule for (S,G) is followed by a rule > for (*,G), and the two rules appear to be the same. It would be better to > give the rule once, and say it is for "(x,G), where x can be '*' or 'S'". > (Just a suggestion, I wouldn't consider this to be a blocking issue.) > > Now a comment on the exposition. The draft actually defines three closely > related schemes: "Snooping", "Proxy", and "Relay". It's a little tough to > figure out just what the difference is, especially the different between > "Proxy" and "Relay". "Relay" is said to be a "lightweight" version of > "Proxy", but you really have to dig into the details to see what that means. > > Let me test my understanding, and authors can correct me if I have > misunderstood something. In the following three bullet points, I am > assuming that we are in the context of a particular VPLS instance. > > 1. PIM Snooping does not interfere with the flooding (according to ordinary > VPLS procedures) of PIM control messages. However, it keeps track of > which ports have CEs that have expressed interest in a given multicast > stream ((S,G) or (*,G)) by sending a Join on that port. It also keeps > track of which ports are "upstream" and which are "downstream" for a > given flow. Multicast data traffic of a given flow is then transmitted > by a PE only when received from an upstream port, and is transmitted only > on downstream ports that have expressed interest. > > The problem with Snooping is the following. A Join from a downstream > port will be flooded to the other (potential) downstream ports. If a CE on > one of these other ports sees a Join(x,G), the CE may decide that it > doesn't have to send its own Join(x,G). This is "join suppression". > Thus the PE cannot tell which of the ports are attached CEs that have > interest in (x,G). > > Thus Snooping only works if Join Suppression is turned off in all the > CEs, and this is not necessarily possible to deploy (especially if the SP > doesn't manage the CEs, or the CEs don't have the ability to disable Join > Suppression.) > > Presumably, if there area multiple CEs per AC, the PE can receive a Join > per (x,G) from each CE, and will flood all these Joins. > > 2. PIM Relay avoids this by NOT flooding the Join messages. A Join message > from a given CE is only forwarded "upstream", as determined by the > "upstream neighbor" field of the Join. Other downstream CEs won't see > this Join, and hence they will not suppress their own Joins, even if Join > Suppression is enabled. > > So a PE will see a Join from each downstream port where there is interest > in a particular (x,G), and each of these Joins gets forwarded upstream. > If there are multiple CEs on a given AC, the CEs on the same AC will see > each others' Joins and can apply Join Suppression in that context. So > one would expect a PE to see no more than one Join per (x,G) per port. > Each of these Joins is forwarded upstream. > > 3. PIM Proxy is similar to PIM Relay, but different. The functional > difference is not clearly expressed in the narrative, but has to be > inferred from the details. I think the difference is the following. As > stated above, PIM Relay may forward upstream multiple Join(x,G) messages. > However, PIM Proxy will forward upstream only a single Join(x,G) message. > (I.e. it aggregates the (x,G) Joins from downstream, much as a PIM router > would do.) This requires maintaining more multicast control state than > is necessary for PIM Relay (hence the claim that Relay is a "lightweight" > version of Proxy), but reduces the upstream control plane load. > > If this is correct, it would be helpful to see section 2.4 expanded a bit to > explain the differences between the three schemes more clearly. > > (The best comparison of the three related schemes is actually in the > Abstract, but I think there should be more comparative detail in the body of > the draft.) > > I also think it is difficult to understand the interactions between PIM > Snooping/Proxy/Relay and IGMP snooping. Interactions are mentioned in > sections 1.1, 2.8, and 2.11; the draft doesn't really give a clear message > as to whether using them together is a good idea or not. Perhaps this draft > could benefit from a "Deployment Considerations" section that addressed this > sort of issue, as well as the issues about which variant of > Snooping/Proxy/Relay to choose under what circumstances. > > Additional comments in-line, look for lines beginning ****. > > > Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks O. Dornon > Internet-Draft J. Kotalwar > Intended status: Informational Alcatel-Lucent > Expires: October 31, 2014 V. Hemige > > R. Qiu > Z. Zhang > Juniper Networks, Inc. > April 29, 2014 > > > PIM Snooping over VPLS > draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-pim-snooping-06 > > Abstract > > This document describes the procedures and recommendations for VPLS > PEs to facilitate replication of multicast traffic to only certain > ports (behind which there are interested PIM routers and/or IGMP > hosts) via PIM Snooping and PIM Proxy. > > With PIM Snooping, PEs passively listen to certain PIM control > messages to build control and forwarding states while transparently > flooding those messages. With PIM Proxy, PEs do not flood PIM Join/ > Prune messages but only generate their own and send out of certain > ports, based on the control states built from downstream Join/Prune > messages. PIM Proxy is required when PIM Join suppression is enabled > on the CE devices and useful to reduce PIM control traffic in a VPLS > domain. > > The document also describes PIM Relay, which can be viewed as light- > weight proxy, where all downstream Join/Prune messages are simply > forwarded out of certain ports but not flooded to avoid triggering > PIM Join suppression on CE devices. > > > > Requirements Language > > The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", > "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this > document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. > > Status of this Memo > > This Internet-Draft is submitted in full conformance with the > provisions of BCP 78 and BCP 79. > > Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering > Task Force (IETF). Note that other groups may also distribute > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 1] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > working documents as Internet-Drafts. The list of current Internet- > Drafts is at http://datatracker.ietf.org/drafts/current/. > > Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months > and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any > time. It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference > material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." > > This Internet-Draft will expire on October 31, 2014. > > Copyright Notice > > Copyright (c) 2014 IETF Trust and the persons identified as the > document authors. All rights reserved. > > This document is subject to BCP 78 and the IETF Trust's Legal > Provisions Relating to IETF Documents > (http://trustee.ietf.org/license-info) in effect on the date of > publication of this document. Please review these documents > carefully, as they describe your rights and restrictions with respect > to this document. Code Components extracted from this document must > include Simplified BSD License text as described in Section 4.e of > the Trust Legal Provisions and are provided without warranty as > described in the Simplified BSD License. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 2] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Table of Contents > > 1. Introduction . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > 1.1. Multicast Snooping in VPLS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 > 1.2. Assumptions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 6 > 1.3. Definitions . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 2. PIM Snooping for VPLS . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 2.1. PIM protocol background . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 > 2.2. General Rules for PIM Snooping in VPLS . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 2.2.1. Preserving Assert Trigger . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 8 > 2.3. Some Considerations for PIM Snooping . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 2.3.1. Scaling . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 > 2.3.2. IPv6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 2.3.3. PIM-SM (*,*,RP) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 2.4. PIM Snooping vs PIM Proxy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 10 > 2.4.1. Differences between PIM Snooping, Relay and Proxy . . 10 > 2.4.2. PIM Control Message Latency . . . . . . . . . . . . . 11 > 2.4.3. When to Snoop and When to Proxy . . . . . . . . . . . 12 > 2.5. Discovering PIM Routers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 13 > 2.6. PIM-SM and PIM-SSM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 2.6.1. Building PIM-SM Snooping States . . . . . . . . . . . 14 > 2.6.2. Explanation for per (S,G,N) states . . . . . . . . . . 17 > 2.6.3. Receiving (*,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages . . . . . . 17 > 2.6.4. Receiving (S,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages . . . . . . 19 > 2.6.5. Receiving (S,G,rpt) Join/Prune Messages . . . . . . . 21 > 2.6.6. Sending Join/Prune Messages Upstream . . . . . . . . . 21 > 2.7. Bidirectional-PIM (PIM-BIDIR) . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 22 > 2.8. Interaction with IGMP Snooping . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 > 2.9. PIM-DM . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 23 > 2.9.1. Building PIM-DM Snooping States . . . . . . . . . . . 23 > 2.9.2. PIM-DM Downstream Per-Port PIM(S,G,N) State Machine . 24 > 2.9.3. Triggering ASSERT election in PIM-DM . . . . . . . . . 24 > 2.10. PIM Proxy . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 > 2.10.1. Upstream PIM Proxy behavior . . . . . . . . . . . . . 24 > 2.11. Directly Connected Multicast Source . . . . . . . . . . . 25 > 2.12. Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 25 > 2.12.1. PIM-SM Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . 26 > 2.12.2. PIM-DM Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . 27 > 3. IANA Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 > 4. Security Considerations . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 > 5. Contributors . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 > 6. Acknowledgements . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 7. References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 7.1. Normative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > 7.2. Informative References . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 29 > Appendix A. PIM-BIDIR Thoughts . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > A.1. PIM-BIDIR Data Forwarding Rules . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 > Appendix B. Example Network Scenario . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 31 > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 3] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > B.1. Pim Snooping Example . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 32 > B.2. PIM Proxy Example with (S,G) / (*,G) interaction . . . . . 34 > Authors' Addresses . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 40 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 4] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > 1. Introduction > > In Virtual Private LAN Service (VPLS), the Provider Edge (PE) devices > provide a logical interconnect such that Customer Edge (CE) devices > belonging to a specific VPLS instance appear to be connected by a > single LAN. Forwarding Information Base for a VPLS instance is > populated dynamically by source MAC address learning. > > **** This sort of suggests (by the mention of SA learning) that this draft > **** does not apply to EVPN. Is that the intention? > > Once a unicast > MAC address is learned and associated with a particular Attachment > Circuit (AC) or PseudoWire (PW), a frame destined to that MAC address > only needs to be sent on that AC or PW. > > For a frame not addressed to a known unicast MAC address, flooding > > **** It might be useful here to say just what "flooding" means in the > **** context of VPLS, i.e., (a) if received from PW, send to all ACs, (b) if > **** received from AC, send to all other ACs and to all PWs. > > has to be used. This happen with the following so called BUM > traffic: > > o B: The destination MAC address is a broadcast address, > > o U: The destination MAC address is unknown (has not been learned), > > o M: The destination MAC address is a multicast address. > > Multicast frames are flooded because a PE cannot know where multicast > members reside. VPLS solutions (i.e., [VPLS-LDP] and [VPLS-BGP]) > perform replication for multicast traffic at the ingress PE devices. > As stated in the VPLS Multicast Requirements draft [VPLS-MCAST-REQ], > there are two issues with VPLS Multicast today: > > o A. Multicast traffic is replicated to non-member sites. > > o B. Replication of PWs on shared physical path. > > Issue A can be solved by Multicast Snooping - PEs learn sites with > multicast members by snooping multicast protocol control messages and > forward IP multicast traffic only to member sites. This documents > describes the procedures to achieve that when PIM is running between > the CE devices. > > **** "PIM is running between the CE devices" --> "the CE devices are PIM > **** adjacencies of each other" (well, I think that's less likely to be > **** misunderstood than "running between") > > **** A forward reference to the section discussing whether hosts and routers > **** can be on the same VPLS instance would be useful here. > > Issue B is outside the scope of this document and > discussed in[VPLS-MCAST-TREES]. > > While this document is in the context of VPLS, the procedures apply > to regular layer-2 switches interconnected by physical connections as > well. In that case, the PW related concept/procedures are not > applicable and that's all. > > 1.1. Multicast Snooping in VPLS > > IGMP Snooping procedures described in[IGMP-SNOOP] make sure that IP > > **** in[IGMP-SNOOP] --> in [IGMP-SNOOP] > > multicast traffic is only sent out of the following: > > **** perhaps: "out of the following" --> "on the following ports" > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 5] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > o Attachment Circuits (ACs) connecting to hosts that report related > group membership > > o ACs connecting to routers > > o PseudoWires (PWs) connecting to remote PEs that have the above > described ACs > > Notice that traffic is always sent out of ports connecting to > > **** perhaps: "out of ports" --> "on ports" > > routers, > > **** "connecting to routers" --> "that have p2p connections to routers or > **** that attach to a LAN on which there is a router" > > even those on which there are no snooped group memberships, > because IGMP Snooping alone can not determine if there are interested > receivers beyond those routers. To further restrict traffic sent to > those routers, PIM Snooping can be used, and this document describes > the procedures, including the rules when both IGMP and PIM are active > in a VPLS instance. > > **** Please add a reference here to sections 2.8 and 2.11, which discuss the > **** issues that occur when one tries to do both IGMP and PIM Snooping. > > **** The paragraph above suggests that there is no problem using both > **** together, but section 2.11 seems to recommend not doing it. > > Note that for both IGMP and PIM, the term Snooping is used loosely, > referring to the fact that a layer-2 device peeks into layer-3 > routing protocol messages to build relevant control and forwarding > states. Depending on how the control messages are handled > (transparently flooded, selectively forwarded, or consumed and then > regenerated), the procedure/process may be called Snooping or Proxy > in different contexts. > > **** The difference between "selectively forwarded" and "consumed then > **** regenerated" is a bit difficult to understand. Presumably "selectively > **** forwarded" means "Relay", while "consumed then regenerated" means > **** "Proxy". But one could take this to mean that every Join is consumed > **** and regenerated, which would be a lot like Relay. I wonder if it would > **** be better to say "aggregated" rather than "consumed then regenerated". > > Unless explicitly noted, the procedures in this document are used for > either PIM Snooping or PIM Proxy, and we will largely refer to PIM > "Snooping" in this document. The PIM Proxy specific procedures are > described in Section 2.6.6. Differences that need to be observed > while implementing one or the other and recommendations on which > method to employ in different scenarios are noted in section > Section 2.4. > > This document also describes PIM Relay, which can be viewed as light- > weight Proxy. Unless explicitly noted, in the rest of the document > Proxy implicitly includes Relay as well. > > **** Very hard to understand from this text what the different between Proxy > **** and Relay is. > > > 1.2. Assumptions > > The document assumes that the reader has a good understanding of the > PIM protocols. The text in this draft is written in the same style > as the PIM RFCs to help correlate the concepts and to make it easier > to follow. > > In order to avoid replicating the text relating to PIM > protocol handling here, this draft cross references into definitions > of macros and procedures from the PIM RFCs, and assumes that the user > will infer such detail from those PIM RFCs. Deviations in protocol > handling specific to PIM Snooping are specified in this draft. > > **** The details are so specific to the PIM macros and state machines, that > **** that I have wonder whether a LC in the PIM WG would be appropriate. > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 6] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > 1.3. Definitions > > There are several definitions referenced in this document that are > well described in the PIM RFCs [PIM-SM], PIM-BIDIR, PIM-DM]. The > > **** The use of brackets above seems incorrect. > > **** BTW, RFC 5015 uses the term "BIDIR-PIM" rather than "PIM-BIDIR". I've > **** never understood why, but perhaps it would be good to use the same term > **** here. > > following definitions and abbreviations are used throughout this > document: > > o A port is defined as either an attachment circuit (AC) or a > Pseudo-Wire (PW). > > o When we say a PIM message is 'received' on a port, it means that a > PIM Snooping PE snooped the PIM message. > > Abbreviations used in the document: > > o S: IP Address of the Multicast Source. > > o G: IP Address of the Multicast Group. > > o N: Upstream Neighbor field in a Join/Prune/Graft message. > > o Rport(N): Port on which neighbor N is learnt. > > **** The phrase "on which neighbor N is learnt" is not very clear. Does > **** this mean "the port over which N's Hellos are received?" Or something > **** else? > > Other definitions are explained in the sections where they are > introduced. > > > 2. PIM Snooping for VPLS > > 2.1. PIM protocol background > > PIM is a multicast routing protocol running between routers, which > are CE devices in a VPLS. PIM shares many of the common > characteristics of a routing protocol, such as discovery messages > (e.g., neighbor discovery using Hello messages), topology information > (e.g., multicast tree), > > **** Multicast tree as topology information?? PIM is more like a distance > **** vector routing algorithm than a LSA routing algorithm, decisions are > **** made based on input from neighbors rather than on topology info; not > **** really sure what is meant above by "topology information". > > and error detection and notification (e.g., > dead timer and designated router election). PIM does not participate > in exchange of unicast routing databases, but it uses the unicast > routing table to provide reverse path information for building > multicast trees. There are a few variants of PIM. In [PIM-DM], > multicast data is pushed towards the members similar to broadcast > mechanism but routers without attached receivers will prune back > towards the source. Unlike PIM-DM, other PIM flavors (PIM-SM > [PIM-SM], PIM-SSM [PIM-SSM], and PIM-BIDIR [PIM-BIDIR]) employs a > pull methodology via explicit joins instead of push technique. > > PIM routers periodically exchange Hello messages to discover and > maintain stateful sessions with neighbors. After neighbors are > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 7] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > discovered, PIM routers can signal their intentions to join or prune > specific multicast groups. This is accomplished by having downstream > routers send an explicit Join/Prune message (for the sake of > generalization, consider Graft messages for PIM-DM as Join messages) > to the upstream routers. > > **** "To the upstream routers", well each downstream router sends the J/P > **** messages for a particular tree to its parent node on that tree, not to > **** all upstream routers. Only with Snooping/Proxy/Relay do J/P messages > **** have to go to more than one upstream neighbor. > > The Join/Prune message can be group > specific (*,G) or group and source specific (S,G). > > 2.2. General Rules for PIM Snooping in VPLS > > The following rules for the correct operation of PIM snooping MUST be > followed. > > o PIM Snooping MUST NOT affect the operation of customer layer-2 > protocols (e.g., BPDUs) or layer-3 protocols. > > **** If this means that PIM Snooping/Proxy/Relay must be invisible to the > **** customer, then the requirement is violated by Proxy/Relay, as the > **** latter does not flood all the same messages as would be flooded > **** normally, and this affects the operation of PIM. You do mention this > **** below ("Proxy loses the transparency argument"), but I don't think you > **** want anyone to conclude that Proxy/Relay violates this requirement. > > o PIM messages and multicast data traffic forwarded by PEs MUST > follow the split-horizon rule for mesh PWs. > > o PIM snooping states in a PE MUST be per VPLS instance. > > o PIM assert triggers MUST be preserved to the extent necessary to > avoid sending duplicate traffic to the same PE (see > Section 2.2.1). > > 2.2.1. Preserving Assert Trigger > > In PIM-SM/DM, there are scenarios where multiple routers could be > forwarding the same multicast traffic on a LAN. When this happens, > using PIM Assert Election process by sending PIM Assert Messages, > routers ensure that only the Assert Winner forwards traffic on the > LAN. The Assert Election is a data driven event and happens only if > a router sees traffic on the interface to which it should be > forwarding the traffic. In the case of VPLS with snooping, two > routers may forward the same flow at the same time but each copy may > reach different set of PEs, and that is acceptable from the point of > view of avoiding duplicate traffic. If the two copies may reach the > same PE then the sending routers must be able to see each other's > traffic, in order to trigger Assert Election and stop duplicate > traffic. > > To achieve that, PIM-SM Snooping MUST not only forward multicast > > **** This capitalized "MUST" followed by lower case "not" will never make it > **** correctly through the review and editing process ;-) Either use lower > **** case "must", or change to "MUST forward multicast traffic for an (S,G) > **** not only on the ports ..." > > traffic for an (S,G) on the ports on which they snooped Joins(S,G)/ > Joins(*,G), but also towards the upstream neighbor(s)). In other > words, the ports on which the upstream neighbors are learnt must be > added to the outgoing port list along with the ports on which Joins > are snooped. > > **** Later on you say more precisely how to define "the upstream neighbors" > **** for a given (x,G). But at this point in the document it is not at all > **** clear what you mean. At the very least, you should add something like > **** "See section 2.6.1 for the rules that determine the set of 'upstream > **** neighbors' for a particular (x,G)." > > Similarly, PIM-DM Snooping SHOULD make sure that asserts can be > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 8] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > triggered (Section 2.9.3). > > **** Why "SHOULD" rather than "MUST"? Actually, it might be better to use > **** lower case words here since you are not actually describing > **** procedures at this point. > > The above logic needs to be facilitated without breaking VPLS Split > Horizon Rules. i.e. traffic should not be forwarded on the port on which > it was received, and traffic arriving on a PW MUST NOT be forwarded onto > other PW(s). > > **** Not clear that "the above logic" refers to. It could be interpreted as > **** referring only to PIM-DM snooping, but I don't think that's the > **** intention. Maybe it would be better just to say instead "The > **** procedures for PIM Snooping/Proxy/Relay do not violate the VPLS split > **** horizon rules. Traffic is never forwarded on the port over which it > **** was received, and traffic received from a PW is never forwarded to > **** other PWs." > > 2.3. Some Considerations for PIM Snooping > > The PIM Snooping solution described here requires a PE to examine and > operate on only PIM Hello and PIM Join/Prune packets. The PE does > not need to examine any other PIM packets. > > Most of the procedures in PIM Snooping in the handling of PIM Hellos > and PIM Join/Prune packets are very similar to that of a PIM Router. > > However, the PE does not need to have any routing tables like is > required in PIM Multicast Routing. It knows how to forward Join/ > Prunes by looking at the Upstream Neighbor field in the Join/Prune > packets. > > **** This would be a good place to say (or to have a reference to the place > **** that says) how the forwarding decision is made, depending on the > **** upstream neighbor field. I think the a J/P with a given upstream > **** neighbor is forwarded to the port from which a Hello from that upstream > **** neighbor was received. Is that correct? > > **** Are there any PIM deployments in which J/Ps will be forwarded to the > **** upstream neighbor even if a Hello from that neighbor hasn't yet been > **** received? (I think the answer is yes.) If so, using PIM snooping in > **** such a deployment would not be transparent to the customer. > > The PE does not need to know about Rendezvous Points (RP) and does > not have to maintain any RP Set. All that is transparent to a PIM > Snooping PE. > > In the following sub-sections, we list some considerations and > observations for the implementation of PIM Snooping in VPLS. > > 2.3.1. Scaling > > Snooping needs to be employed on ACs at the downstream PEs to prevent > traffic from being sent out of ACs unnecessarily. Snooping > techniques can also be employed on PWs at the upstream PEs to prevent > traffic from being sent to PEs unnecessarily. > > **** I was a bit puzzled by my first encounter with this paragraph. The > **** terms "upstream" and "downstream" are only meaningful in the context of > **** a particular Join, but "snooping" means (roughly) listening for Joins. > **** So a PE has to decide whether to snoop on a particular PW or AC before > **** it knows whether it is "upstream" or "downstream". Perhaps the point > **** is simply that (a) by snooping J/Ps and Hellos on a given port, one can > **** avoid sending multicast data traffic on a given port if there are no > **** receivers for that traffic reachable over that port, but (b) the cost > **** of gaining this data transmission efficiency is that the PE has to examine > **** the J/Ps and Hellos received over that port, and has to maintain > **** forwarding state derived from that examination. > > This may work well for > small to medium scale deployments. However, if there are a large > number of VPLS instances with a large number of PEs per instances, > then the amount of snooping required at the upstream PEs can > overwhelm the upstream PEs. > > **** This seems to say that "snooping load" of a given PE is proportional to > **** the number of PWs emanating from that PE (one PW per PE per VPLS > **** instance). But doesn't the load also depend on the number of ACs? > > **** Actually, if Snooping (rather than Proxy or Relay) is being used, then > **** Join Suppression is not being used by the CEs, and I think the load on > **** the PEs is then proportional to the total number of CEs over all the > **** VPLS instances of that PE. (The number of Joins to examine will be > **** proportional to the number of CEs, won't it?) > > There are two methods to reduce the burden on the upstream PEs. One > is to use PIM Proxy as described in Section 2.6.6, to reduce the > control messages forwarded by a PE. > > **** If Proxy is used, then the number of J/Ps a PE has to inspect seems to > **** be proportional to the sum of number of local ACs plus the number of > **** PWs. (If Relay is used, I think the maximum number of J/Ps a PE has to > **** inspect is proportional to the number of CEs in the VPLS instance.) > > The other is not to snoop on the > PWs at all, but PEs signal the snooped states to other PEs out of > band via BGP, as described in [VPLS-MCAST-TREES]. > > **** I'm not sure this sentence expresses its point clearly; if a PE doesn't > **** snoop, how does it signal the snooped states? > > In this document, > it is assumed that Snooping is performed on PWs. > > **** Does this sentence really mean "it is assumed that the snooped state is > **** not being signaled via BGP"? If so, is that meant to imply that if > **** [VPLS-MCAST-TREES] is used, this draft is not used? > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 9] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > 2.3.2. IPv6 > > In VPLS, PEs forward Ethernet frames received from CEs and as such > are agnostic of the layer-3 protocol used by the CEs. However, as an > IGMP and PIM snooping PE, the PE would have to look deeper into the > IP and IGMP/PIM packets and build snooping state based on that. The > PIM Protocol specifications handle both IPv4 and IPv6. The > specification for PIM Snooping in this draft can be applied to both > IPv4 and IPv6 payloads. > > **** Are you willing to state that, at the time of this writing, there are > **** no IPv6-specific PIM extensions that are incompatible with the > **** procedures specified in this document? > > 2.3.3. PIM-SM (*,*,RP) > > This draft does not address (*,*,RP) states in the VPLS network. > Although [PIM-SM] specifies that routers MUST support (*,*,RP) > states, there are very few implementations that actually support it > in actual deployments, and it is being removed from the PIM protocol > in its ongoing advancement process in IETF. Given that, this draft > omits the specification relating to (*,*,RP) support. > > **** I have no problem with this. However, it might create an operational > **** problem for a SP if one of the SP's customers uses (*,*,RP). Does the > **** SP have to determine whether its customers use this, and if so, disable > **** PIM snooping/proxy. If a customer does use (*,*,RP), will something > **** break? The draft should probably answer these questions. > > > > > 2.4. PIM Snooping vs PIM Proxy > > The document has previously alluded to PIM Snooping/Relay/Proxy. > Details on the PIM Proxy/Relay solution are discussed in > Section 2.6.6. In this section, a brief description and comparison > are given. > > 2.4.1. Differences between PIM Snooping, Relay and Proxy > > Differences between PIM Snooping and Proxy/Relay can be summarized as > the following: > > > +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+ > | PIM Snooping | PIM Relay | PIM Proxy | > +======================|=====================|=======================+ > | Join/Prune messages | Join/Prune messages | Join/Prune messages | > | snooped and flooded | snooped; forwarded | consumed. Regenerated | > | everywhere | as is out of certain| ones sent out of | > | | upstream ports | certain upstream ports| > +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+ > | No PIM packets | No PIM packets | New Join/Prune | > | generated. | generated | messages generated | > +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+ > | CE Join Suppression | CE Join Suppression | CE Join Suppression | > | not allowed | allowed | allowed | > +----------------------+---------------------+-----------------------+ > > **** Re PIM snooping, instead of just saying "flooded everywhere", it might > **** be better to say "flooded according to VPLS flooding procedures". > > **** At this point in the document, I think it is really impossible to know > **** what the difference between Relay and Proxy is. > > Note that the differences apply only to PIM Join/Prune messages. PIM > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 10] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Hello messages are snooped and flooded in all cases. > > Other than the above differences, most of the procedures are common > to PIM Snooping and PIM Proxy/Relay, unless specifically stated > otherwise. > > Pure PIM Snooping PEs simply snoop on PIM packets as they are being > forwarded in the VPLS. As such they truly provide transparent LAN > services since no customer packets are modified or consumed or new > packets introduced in the VPLS. It is also simpler to implement than > PIM Proxy. However for PIM Snooping to work correctly, it is a > requirement that CE routers MUST disable Join suppression in the > VPLS. > > **** This should really be explained. Maybe something like "Otherwise, most > **** of the CE routers with interest in a given multicast data stream will > **** fail to send J/P messages for that stream, and the PEs will not be able > **** to tell which ACs and/or PWs have listeners for that stream". > > Given that a large number of existing CE deployments do not support > disabling of Join suppression and given the operational complexity > for a provider to manage disabling of Join suppression in the VPLS, > it becomes a difficult solution to deploy. > > **** Even worse, if the SP's customer happens to bring up a CE that does do > **** Join Suppression, the customer will experience intermittent problems > **** with multicast. Snooping really only seems applicable when the SP > **** manages all the CEs, and can ensure that Join Suppression is disabled > **** on all of them. > > Another disadvantage of > PIM Snooping is that it does not scale as well as PIM Proxy. If > there are a large number of CEs in a VPLS, then every CE will see > every other CE's Join/Prune messages. > > **** I think the point here (which I agree with) is that disabling Join > **** Suppression has a negative effect on CE scaling. You've already > **** pointed out that Proxy/Relay is better for PE scaling, now it appears > **** that it is also better for CE scaling. And it doesn't require careful > **** management of the CE deployments. Okay, I'm convinced, Snooping sounds > **** like a really bad alternative. > > PIM Proxy/Relay has the advantage that it does not require Join > suppression to be disabled in the VPLS. Multicast as a VPLS service > can be very easily provided without requiring any changes on the CE > routers. PIM Proxy/Relay helps scale VPLS Multicast since Join/Prune > messages are only sent to certain upstream ports instead of flooded, > and in case of full Proxy (vs. Relay) the PEs intelligently generate > only one Join/Prune message for a given flow. > > PIM Proxy however loses the transparency argument since Join/Prunes > could get modified or even consumed at a PE. > > **** I guess this is the other side of the coin. But some readers may not > **** know what "loses the transparency argument" means. I think the issue > **** is that if two CEs are PIM adjacencies of each other across the VPLS > **** backbone, the control packets that one CE sends are not necessarily the > **** control packets that the other one receives. Thus if anything goes > **** wrong there is a VPLS-specific (or PIM-Proxy-specific) component to the > **** troubleshooting procedures. It's not clear that the folks running the > **** enterprise network will be happy if they need to understand the SP's > **** PIM Proxy procedures. > > Also, new packets could > get introduced in the VPLS. However, this loss of transparency is > limited to PIM Join/Prune packets. It is in the interest of > optimizing multicast in the VPLS and helping a VPLS network scale > much better. > > **** I'd emphasize that Proxy/Relay helps scalability for both the SP AND > **** its customers. I.e., it's not one of those things that helps the SP > **** while costing the customers. So if customers insist on complete > **** transparency, they incur some extra cost. > > Data traffic will still be completely transparent. > > > 2.4.2. PIM Control Message Latency > > A PIM Snooping/Proxy/Relay PE snoops on PIM Hello packets while > transparently flooding them in the VPLS. As such there is no latency > introduced by the VPLS in the delivery of PIM Hello packets to remote > CEs in the VPLS. > > A PIM Snooping PE snoops on PIM Join/Prune packets while > transparently flooding them in the VPLS. There is no latency > introduced by the VPLS in the delivery of PIM Join/Prune packets when > PIM Snooping is employed. > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 11] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > A PIM Proxy/Relay PE does not simply flood PIM Join/Prune packets. > This can result in additional latency for a downstream CE to receive > multicast traffic after it has sent a Join. When a downstream CE > prunes a multicast stream, the traffic should stop flowing to the CE > with no additional latency introduced by the VPLS. > > **** I'm not sure I understand this latency issue. With Snooping, the > **** fastpath can flood the J/Ps, but they still need to be processed in > **** slowpath in order to make the requisite changes to the data forwarding > **** states. And isn't the latency till a Join takes effect more important > **** than the latency till a Prune takes effect? Also, there are a lot of > **** implementation-specific assumptions here. > > Performing only proxy of Join/Prune and not Hello messages keeps the > PE behavior very similar to that of a PIM router without introducing > too much additional complexity. It keeps the PIM Proxy solution > fairly simple. Since Join/Prunes are forwarded by a PE along the > slow-path and all other PIM packet types are forwarded along the > fast-path, it is very likely that packets forwarded along the fast- > path will arrive "ahead" of Join/Prune packets at a CE router (note > the stress on the fact that fast-path messages will never arrive > after Join/Prunes). Of particular importance are Hello packets sent > along the fast-path. We can construct a variety of scenarios > resulting in out of order delivery of Hellos and Join/Prune messages. > However, there should be no deviation from normal expected behavior > observed at the CE router receiving these messages out of order. > > **** But there will likely be an increased amount of this "normal expected > **** behavior", which typically would be rather unusual. The question > **** really is whether it is acceptable to increase this amount. I guess if > **** that's a problem, one could also "punt" the Hellos ;-) > > 2.4.3. When to Snoop and When to Proxy > > From the above descriptions, factors that affect the choice of > Snooping/Relay/Proxy include: > > o Whether CEs do Join Suppression or not > > **** If the SPs don't manage the CEs, evaluating this factor may be > **** difficult. > > o Whether Join/Prune latency is critical or not > > **** How does the SP know whether it is critical to provide minimum latency > **** for its customers J/Ps? > > o Whether the scale of PIM protocol message/states in a VPLS > requires the scaling benefit of Proxy > > Of the above factors, Join Suppression is the hard one - pure > Snooping can only be used when Join Suppression is disabled on all > CEs. The latency associated with Relay/Proxy is implementation > dependent and may not be a concern at all with a particular > implementation. The scaling benefit may not be important either, in > that on a real LAN with Explicit Tracking (ET) a PIM router will need > to receive and process all PIM Join/Prune messages as well. > > A PIM router indicates that Join Suppression is disabled if the T-bit > is set in the LAN Prune Delay option of its Hello message. If all > PIM routers on a LAN set the T-bit, Explicit Tracking is possible, > allowing an upstream router to track all the downstream neighbors > that have Join states for any (S,G) or (*,G). That has two benefits: > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 12] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > o No need for PrunePending process - the upstream router may > immediately stop forwarding data when it receives a Prune from the > last downstream neighbor, and immediately prune to its upstream if > that's for the last downstream interface. > > o For management purpose, the upstream router knows exactly which > downstream routers exist for a particular Join State. > > While full Proxy can be used with or without Join Suppression on CEs > and does not interfere with an upstream CE's bypass of PrunePending > process, it does proxy all its downstream CEs as a single one to the > upstream, removing the second benefit mentioned above. > > Therefore, the general rule is that if Join Suppression is enabled on > CEs then Proxy or Relay MUST be used and if Suppression is known to > be disabled on all CEs then either Snooping, Relay, or Proxy MAY be > used while Snooping or Relay SHOULD be used. > > **** I don't think anything above really makes it clear when to choose Proxy > **** and when to choose Relay. The discussion seems more focused on when to > **** use Snooping vs. when not to use Snooping. > > **** Since Relay is said to be a "lightweight" version of "Proxy", the big > **** unanswered question is why would someone ever want to use "Proxy" > **** instead of "Relay"? Yes, I see (I think) that Proxy reduces the > **** overhead through aggregation of the Joins, but this is never really > **** stated straightforwardly. > > **** Also, the paragraph above seems to imply that Proxy SHOULD not be used > **** if Join Suppression is known to be disabled. Is that the intention? > **** Why? > > An implementation MAY choose dynamic determination of which mode to > use, through the tracking of the above mentioned T-bit in all snooped > PIM Hello messages, or MAY simply require static provisioning. > > **** If you use the dynamic method, you may find yourself switching back and > **** forth between Snooping and Proxy/Relay; the condition of "all CEs on > **** the LAN set the T bit" may change if there are some CEs that set the T > **** bit and some that don't. (If a CE that doesn't set the T bit is > **** flapping, this could cause flapping between Snooping and Proxy/Relay.) > **** What are the implications of switching back and forth between Snooping > **** and Proxy/Relay? Will this cause any user-visible disruptions? > > **** Thus dynamic method seems somewhat imprudent, unless Snooping has a > **** really big advantage over Proxy/Relay. > > **** Although the above talks about looking at the T-bit in "all snooped PIM > **** Hello messages", I think the context is "all PIM Hello messages that > **** have been snooped by a given PE", rather than "all PIM Hello messages > **** in the entire VPLS". Is that right? Will there be any issues if some > **** PEs decide that Snooping is okay, but others decide to use Proxy/Relay? > > > 2.5. Discovering PIM Routers > > **** This section applies to Proxy/Relay as well as Snooping, doesn't it? > **** That's probably worth stating explicitly, given that the previous > **** section focuses on the differences between Snooping and Proxy/Relay. > > A PIM Snooping PE MUST snoop on PIM Hellos received on ACs and PWs. > i.e. the PE transparently floods the PIM Hello while snooping on it. > PIM Hellos are used by the snooping PE to discover PIM routers and > their characteristics. > > For each neighbor discovered by a PE, it includes an entry in the PIM > Neighbor Database with the following fields: > > o Layer 2 encapsulation for the Router sending the PIM Hello. > > o IP Address and address family of the Router sending the PIM Hello. > > o Port (AC / PW) on which the PIM Hello was received. > > o Hello TLVs > > The PE should be able to interpret and act on Hello TLVs currently > defined in the PIM RFCs. The TLVs of particular interest in this > document are: > > o Hello-Hold-Time > > o Tracking Support > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 13] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > o DR Priority > > > Please refer to [PIM-SM] for a list of the Hello TLVs. When a PIM > Hello is received, the PE MUST reset the neighbor-expiry-timer to > Hello-Hold-Time. If a PE does not receive a Hello message from a > router within Hello-Hold-Time, the PE MUST remove that neighbor from > its PIM Neighbor Database. If a PE receives a Hello message from a > router with Hello-Hold-Time value set to zero, the PE MUST remove > that router from the PIM snooping state immediately. > > From the PIM Neighbor Database, a PE MUST be able to use the > procedures defined in [PIM-SM] to identify the PIM Designated Router > in the VPLS instance. It should also be able to determine if > Tracking Support is active in the VPLS instance. > > 2.6. PIM-SM and PIM-SSM > > The key characteristic of PIM-SM and PIM-SSM is explicit join > behavior. > > **** I'm not sure I'd identify any one characteristic as "the key > **** characteristic". This is perhaps the key differentiator between PIM-SM > **** and PIM-DM, but if you were comparing PIM-SM to, say, BGP, you might > **** say that the "key characteristic" is the use of datagrams and > **** timer-based refreshes. Maybe what you really want to say is just > **** "PIMS-SM and PIM-SSM have explicit join behavior". > > In this model, multicast traffic is only forwarded to > locations that specifically request it. The root node of a tree is > the Rendezvous Point (RP) in case of a shared tree (PIM-SM only) or > the first hop router that is directly connected to the multicast > source in the case of a shortest path tree. > > **** Of course, the FHR could be separated from the multicast source by an > **** entire VPLS backbone, rather than being "directly connected" to it. > **** Perhaps it would be more accurate just to say that the root of a PIM > **** source tree is the PIM router that is serving as the "first hop router" > **** for the source. > > All the procedures > described in this section apply to both PIM-SM and PIM-SSM, except > for the fact that there is no (*,G) state in PIM-SSM. > > 2.6.1. Building PIM-SM Snooping States > > **** Again, I'd mention explicitly that this applies to Proxy/Relay as well. > > PIM-SM and PIM-SSM Snooping states are built by snooping on the > PIM-SM Join/Prune messages received on AC/PWs. > > The downstream state machine of a PIM-SM snooping PE very closely > resembles the downstream state machine of PIM-SM routers. > > **** Many PIM implementations have knobs that can be used to modify the > **** protocol behavior in one respect or another. E.g., one deployment may > **** be very strict about not accepting a Join/Prune message from a router > **** that has not already established a PIM adjacency with Hellos; another > **** deployment may want to start the Join/Prune processing without waiting > **** for the adjacency to be established. I wonder if PIM > **** Snooping/Proxy/Relay will break if such knobs area used. Does the > **** document need a "Deployment Considerations" section cataloging the > **** various dependencies. > > The > downstream state consists of: > > Per downstream (Port, *, G): > > o DownstreamJPState: One of { "NoInfo" (NI), "Join" (J), "Prune > Pending" (PP) } > > Per downstream (Port, *, G, N): > > o Prune Pending Timer (PPT(N)) > > o Join Expiry Timer (ET(N)) > > Per downstream (Port, S, G): > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 14] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > o DownstreamJPState: One of { "NoInfo" (NI), "Join" (J), "Prune > Pending" (PP) } > > Per downstream (Port, S, G, N): > > o Prune Pending Timer (PPT(N)) > > o Join Expiry Timer (ET(N)) > > Per downstream (Port, S, G, rpt): > > o DownstreamJPRptState: One of { "NoInfo" (NI), "Pruned" (P), "Prune > Pending" (PP) } > > Per downstream (Port, S, G, rpt, N): > > o Prune Pending Timer (PPT(N)) > > o Join Expiry Timer (ET(N)) > > Where S is the address of the multicast source, G is the Group > address and N is the upstream neighbor field in the Join/Prune > message. Notice that unlike on PIM-SM routers where PPT and ET are > per (Interface, S, G), PIM Snooping PEs have to maintain PPT and ET > per (Port, S, G, N). The reasons for this are explained in > Section 2.6.2. > > Apart from the above states, we define the following state > summarization macros. > > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G): If there is one or more Join(*,G) received on > any port with upstream neighbor N and ET(N) is active, then N is > added to UpstreamNeighbors(*,G). This set is used to determine if a > Join(*,G) or a Prune(*,G) with upstream neighbor N needs to be sent > upstream. > > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G): If there is one or more Join(S,G) received on > any port with upstream neighbor N and ET(N) is active, then N is > added to UpstreamNeighbors(S,G). This set is used to determine if a > Join(S,G) or a Prune(S,G) with upstream neighbor N needs to be sent > upstream. > > UpstreamPorts(*,G): This is the set of all Rport(N) ports where N is > in the set UpstreamNeighbors(*,G). Multicast Streams forwarded using > a (*,G) match MUST be forwarded to these ports in addition to > downstream ports. So UpstreamPorts(*,G) MUST be added to > OutgoingPortList(*,G). > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 15] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > UpstreamPorts(S,G): This is the set of all Rport(N) ports where N is > in the set UpstreamNeighbors(S,G). UpstreamPorts(S,G) MUST be added > to OutgoingPortList(S,G). > > InheritedUpstreamPorts(S,G): This is the union of UpstreamPorts(S,G) > and UpstreamPorts(*,G). > > UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt): If PruneDesired(S,G,rpt) becomes true, then > this set is set to UpstreamPorts(*,G). Otherwise, this set is empty. > UpstreamPorts(*,G) (-) UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) MUST be added to > OutgoingPortList(S,G). > > UpstreamPorts(G): This set is the union of all the UpstreamPorts(S,G) > and UpstreamPorts(*,G) for a given G. Proxy (S,G) Join/Prune and > (*,G) Join/Prune messages MUST be sent to a subset of > UpstreamPorts(G) as specified in Section 2.6.6.1. > > PWPorts: This is the set of all PWs. > > OutgoingPortList(*,G): This is the set of all ports to which traffic > needs to be forwarded on a (*,G) match. > > OutgoingPortList(S,G): This is the set of all ports to which traffic > needs to be forwarded on an (S,G) match. > > See Section 2.12 on Data Forwarding Rules for the specification on > how OutgoingPortList is calculated. > > NumETsActive(Port,*,G): Number of (Port,*,G,N) entries that have > Expiry Timer running. This macro keeps track of the number of > Join(*,G)s that are received on this Port with different upstream > neighbors. > > NumETsActive(Port,S,G): Number of (Port,S,G,N) entries that have > Expiry Timer running. This macro keeps track of the number of > Join(S,G)s that are received on this Port with different upstream > neighbors. > > RpfVectorTlvs(*,G): RPF Vectors [RPF-VECTOR] are TLVs that may be > present in received Join(*,G) messages. If present, they must be > copied to RpfVectorTlvs(*,G). > > RpfVectorTlvs(S,G): RPF Vectors [RPF-VECTOR] are TLVs that may be > present in received Join(S,G) messages. If present, they must be > copied to RpfVectorTlvs(S,G). > > Since there are a few differences between the downstream state > machines of PIM-SM Routers and PIM-SM snooping PEs, we specify the > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 16] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > details of the downstream state machine of PIM-SM snooping PEs at the > risk of repeating most of the text documented in [PIM-SM]. > > 2.6.2. Explanation for per (S,G,N) states > > In PIM Routing protocols, states are built per (S,G). On a router, > an (S,G) has only one RPF-Neighbor. However, a PIM Snooping PE does > not have the Layer 3 routing information available to the routers in > order to determine the RPF-Neighbor for a multicast flow. It merely > discovers it by snooping the Join/Prune message. A PE could have > snooped on two or more different Join/Prune messages for the same > (S,G) that could have carried different Upstream-Neighbor fields. > This could happen during transient network conditions or due to dual- > homed sources. A PE cannot make assumptions on which one to pick, > but instead must facilitate the CE routers decide which Upstream > Neighbor gets elected the RPF-Neighbor. > > **** "must facilitate the CE routers decide" --> "must allow the CE routers > **** to decide" (if I understand the intention correctly) > > And for this purpose, the PE > will have to track downstream and upstream Join/Prune per (S,G,N). > > 2.6.3. Receiving (*,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages > > A Join(*,G) or Prune(*,G) is considered "received" if the following > conditions are met: > > o The port on which it arrived is not Rport(N) where N is the > upstream-neighbor N of the Join/Prune(*,G), or, > > o if both RPort(N) and the arrival port are PWs, then there exists > at least one other (*,G,Nx) or (Sx,G,Nx) state with an AC > UpstreamPort. > > **** Note that you suddenly switch below from "Rport" to "RPort". Please > **** search for these and make them consistent. > > For simplicity, the case where both RPort(N) and the arrival port are > PWs is referred to as PW-only Join/Prune in this document. The PW- > only Join/Prune handling is so that the RPort(N) PW can be added to > the related forwarding entries' OutgoingPortList to trigger Assert, > but that is only needed for those states with AC UpstreamPort. Note > that in PW-only case, it is OK for the arrival port and RPort(N) to > be the same. See Appendix Appendix B for examples. > > **** "Appendix Appendix". xml2frc artifact, I guess ;-) This occurs in > **** several places. > > When a router receives a Join(*,G) or a Prune(*,G) with upstream > neighbor N, it must process the message as defined in the state > machine below. Note that the macro computations of the various > macros resulting from this state machine transition is exactly as > specified in the PIM-SM RFC [PIM-SM]. > > We define the following per-port (*,G,N) macro to help with the state > machine below. > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 17] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Figure 1 : Downstream per-port (*,G) state machine in tabular form > +---------------++----------------------------------------+ > | || Previous State | > | ++------------+--------------+------------+ > | Event ||NoInfo (NI) | Join (J) | Prune-Pend | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > | Receive ||-> J state | -> J state | -> J state | > | Join(*,G) || Action | Action | Action | > | || RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |Receive || - | -> PP state | -> PP state| > |Prune(*,G) and || | Start PPT(N) | | > |NumETsActive<=1|| | | | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |Receive || - | -> J state | - | > |Prune(*,G) and || | Start PPT(N) | | > |NumETsActive>1 || | | | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |PPT(N) expires || - | -> J state | -> NI state| > | || | Action | Action | > | || | PPTExpiry(N) |PPTExpiry(N)| > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |ET(N) expires || - | -> NI state | -> NI state| > |and || | Action | Action | > |NumETsActive<=1|| | ETExpiry(N) | ETExpiry(N)| > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |ET(N) expires || - | -> J state | - | > |and || | Action | | > |NumETsActive>1 || | ETExpiry(N) | | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > > Action RxJoin(N): > > If ET(N) is not already running, then start ET(N). Otherwise > restart ET(N). If N is not already in UpstreamNeighbors(*,G), > then add N to UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) and trigger a Join(*,G) with > upstream neighbor N to be forwarded upstream. If there are RPF > Vector TLVs in the received (*,G) message and if they are > different from the recorded RpfVectorTlvs(*,G), then copy them > into RpfVectorTlvs(*,G). > > Action PPTExpiry(N): > > Same as Action ETExpiry(N) below, plus Send a Prune-Echo(*,G) with > upstream-neighbor N on the downstream port. > > Action ETExpiry(N): > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 18] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Disable timers ET(N) and PPT(N). Delete neighbor state > (Port,*,G,N). If there are no other (Port,*,G) states with > NumETsActive(Port,*,G) > 0, transition DownstreamJPState to > NoInfo. If there are no other (Port,*,G,N) state (different ports > but for the same N), remove N from UpstreamPorts(*,G) - this also > serves as a trigger for US FSM (JoinDesired(*,G,N) becomes FALSE). > > 2.6.4. Receiving (S,G) PIM-SM Join/Prune Messages > > A Join(S,G) or Prune(S,G) is considered "received" if the following > conditions are met: > > o The port on which it arrived is not Rport(N) where N is the > upstream-neighbor N of the Join/Prune(S,G), or, > > o if both RPort(N) and the arrival port are PWs, then there exists > at least one other (*,G,Nx) or (S,G,Nx) state with an AC > UpstreamPort. > > For simplicity, the case where both RPort(N) and the arrival port are > PWs is referred to as PW-only Join/Prune in this document. The PW- > only Join/Prune handling is so that the RPort(N) PW can be added to > the related forwarding entries' OutgoingPortList to trigger Assert, > but that is only needed for those states with AC UpstreamPort. See > Appendix Appendix B for examples. > > **** Appendix Appendix > > **** Doesn't this violate split horizon? > > When a router receives a Join(S,G) or a Prune(S,G) with upstream > neighbor N, it must process the message as defined in the state > machine below. Note that the macro computations of the various > macros resulting from this state machine transition is exactly as > specified in the PIM-SM RFC [PIM-SM]. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 19] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Figure 2: Downstream per-port (S,G) state machine in tabular form > +---------------++----------------------------------------+ > | || Previous State | > | ++------------+--------------+------------+ > | Event ||NoInfo (NI) | Join (J) | Prune-Pend | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > | Receive ||-> J state | -> J state | -> J state | > | Join(S,G) || Action | Action | Action | > | || RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | RxJoin(N) | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |Receive || - | -> PP state | -> PP state| > |Prune (S,G) and|| | Start PPT(N) | | > |NumETsActive<=1|| | | | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |Receive || - | -> J state | - | > |Prune(S,G) and || | Start PPT(N) | | > NumETsActive>1 || | | | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |PPT(N) expires || - | -> J state | -> NI state| > | || | Action | Action | > | || | PPTExpiry(N) |PPTExpiry(N)| > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |ET(N) expires || - | -> NI state | -> NI state| > |and || | Action | Action | > |NumETsActive<=1|| | ETExpiry(N) | ETExpiry(N)| > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > |ET(N) expires || - | -> J state | - | > |and || | Action | | > |NumETsActive>1 || | ETExpiry(N) | | > +---------------++------------+--------------+------------+ > > Action RxJoin(N): > > If ET(N) is not already running, then start ET(N). Otherwise, > restart ET(N). > > If N is not already in UpstreamNeighbors(S,G), then add N to > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) and trigger a Join(S,G) with upstream > neighbor N to be forwarded upstream. If there are RPF Vector TLVs > in the received (S,G) message and if they are different from the > recorded RpfVectorTlvs(S,G), then copy them into > RpfVectorTlvs(S,G). > > Action PPTExpiry(N): > > Same as Action ETExpiry(N) below, plus Send a Prune-Echo(S,G) with > upstream-neighbor N on the downstream port. > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 20] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Action ETExpiry(N): > > Disable timers ET(N) and PPT(N). Delete neighbor state > (Port,S,G,N). If there are no other (Port,S,G) states with > NumETsActive(Port,S,G) > 0, transition DownstreamJPState to > NoInfo. If there are no other (Port,S,G,N) state (different ports > but for the same N), remove N from UpstreamPorts(S,G) - this also > serves as a trigger for US FSM (JoinDesired(S,G,N) becomes FALSE). > > 2.6.5. Receiving (S,G,rpt) Join/Prune Messages > > A Join(S,G,rpt) or Prune(S,G,rpt) is "received" when the port on > which it was received is not also the port on which the upstream- > neighbor N of the Join/Prune(S,G,rpt) was learnt. > > While it is important to ensure that the (S,G) and (*,G) state > machines allow for handling per (S,G,N) states, it is not as > important for (S,G,rpt) states. It suffices to say that the > downstream (S,G,rpt) state machine is the same as what is defined in > section 4.5.4 of the PIM-SM RFC [PIM-SM]. > > 2.6.6. Sending Join/Prune Messages Upstream > > This section applies only to a PIM Proxy/Relay PE and not to a PIM > Snooping PE. > > **** I wonder if "Proxy/Relay" could be put into the section title, so it > **** will show up in the ToC. > > A full PIM Proxy (not Relay) PE MUST implement the Upstream FSM for > which the procedures are similar to what is defined in section 4.5.6 > of [PIM-SM]. > > For the purposes of the Upstream FSM, a Join or Prune message with > upstream neighbor N is "seen" on a PIM Snooping PE if the port on > which the message was received is also Rport(N), and the port is an > AC. The AC requirement is needed because a Join received on the > Rport(N) PW must not suppress this PE's Join on that PW. > > A PIM Relay PE does not implement the Upstream FSM. It simply > forwards received Join/Prune messages out of the same set of upstream > ports as in the PIM Proxy case. > > **** I'm still not following: what is the functional difference between > **** Proxy and Relay? Why would one choose to do Proxy over Relay? What > **** functionality does Proxy provide that Relay does not? > > In order to correctly facilitate assert among the CE routers, such > Join/Prunes need to sent not only towards the upstream neighbor, but > also on certain PWs as described below. > > If RpfVectorTlvs(*,G) is not empty, then it must be encoded in a > Join(*,G) message sent upstream. > > If RpfVectorTlvs(S,G) is not empty, then it must be encoded in a > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 21] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Join(S,G) message sent upstream. > > 2.6.6.1. Where to send Join/Prune messages > > The following rules apply, to both forwarded (in case of PIM Relay), > refresh and triggered (in case of PIM Proxy) (S,G)/(*,G) Join/Prune > messages. > > o The upstream neighbor field in the Join/Prune to be sent is set to > the N in the corresponding Upstream FSM. > > o if Rport(N) is an AC, send the message to Rport(N). > > o Additionally, if OutgoingPortList(X,G,N) contains at lease one AC, > > **** lease --> least > > then the message MUST be sent to at least all the PWs in > UpstreamPorts(G) (for (*,G)) or InheritedUpstreamPorts(S,G) (for > (S,G)). Alternatively, the message MAY be sent to all PWs. > > **** Is there any possibility of violating split horizon if the message is > **** sent to all PWs? > > Sending to a subset of PWs as described above guarantees that if > traffic (of the same flow) from two upstream routers were to reach > this PE, then the two routers will receive from each other, > triggering assert. > > Sending to all PWs guarantees that if two upstream routers both send > traffic for the same flow (even if it is to different sets of > downstream PEs), then they'll receive from each other, triggering > assert. > > **** Do all PEs in a given VPLS instance have to follow the same policy > **** (send to subset of PWs vs. send to all PWs)? > > 2.7. Bidirectional-PIM (PIM-BIDIR) > > PIM-BIDIR is a variation of PIM-SM. The main differences between > PIM-SM and Bidirectional-PIM are as follows: > > o There are no source-based trees, and source-specific multicast is > not supported (i.e., no (S,G) states) in PIM- BIDIR. > > o Multicast traffic can flow up the shared tree in PIM-BIDIR. > > o To avoid forwarding loops, one router on each link is elected as > the Designated Forwarder (DF) for each RP in PIM-BIDIR. > > The main advantage of PIM-BIDIR is that it scales well for many-to- > many applications. However, the lack of source-based trees means > that multicast traffic is forced to remain on the shared tree. > > As described in [PIM-BIDIR], parts of a PIM-BIDIR enabled network may > forward traffic without exchanging Join/Prune messages, for instance > between DF's and the RPL. > > **** First use of term "RPL", hasn't been defined in this draft. > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 22] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > As the described procedures for Pim snooping rely on the presence of > Join/Prune messages, enabling Pim snooping on PIM-BIDIR networks > could break the PIM-BIDIR functionality. Deploying Pim snooping on > PIM-BIDIR enabled networks will require some further study. Some > thoughts are gathered in Appendix A. > > **** Does this mean that the SP cannot use Snooping/Proxy/Relay at all if > **** its customer uses BIDIR? If a customer turns on BIDIR without > **** informing its SP, will the customer cause problems for itself? That > **** doesn't seem too good, especially if the customer thinks it is getting > **** a transparent L2 service. > > 2.8. Interaction with IGMP Snooping > > Whenever IGMP Snooping is enabled in conjunction with PIM Snooping in > the same VPLS instance the PE SHOULD follow these rules: > > o To maintain the list of multicast routers and ports on which they > are attached, the PE SHOULD NOT use the rules as described in > RFC4541 [IGMP-SNOOP] but SHOULD rely on the neighbors discovered > by PIM Snooping . This list SHOULD then be used to apply the > forwarding rule as described in 2.1.1.(1) of RFC4541 [IGMP-SNOOP]. > > o If the PE supports proxy-reporting, an IGMP membership learned > only on a port to which a PIM neighbor is attached but not > elsewhere SHOULD NOT be included in the summarized upstream report > sent to that port. > > 2.9. PIM-DM > > The characteristics of PIM-DM is flood and prune behavior. Shortest > path trees are built as a multicast source starts transmitting. > > **** Darn it, I was hoping to read that PIM-DM is "out of scope" ;-) > > 2.9.1. Building PIM-DM Snooping States > > PIM-DM Snooping states are built by snooping on the PIM-DM Join, > Prune, Graft and State Refresh messages received on AC/PWs and State- > Refresh Messages sent on AC/PWs. By snooping on these PIM-DM > messages, a PE builds the following states per (S,G,N) where S is the > address of the multicast source, G is the Group address and N is the > upstream neighbor to which Prunes/Grafts are sent by downstream CEs: > > Per PIM (S,G,N): > > Port PIM (S,G,N) Prune State: > > > > * DownstreamPState(S,G,N,Port): One of {"NoInfo" (NI), "Pruned" > (P), "PrunePending" (PP)} > > * Prune Pending Timer (PPT) > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 23] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > * Prune Timer (PT) > > * Upstream Port (valid if the PIM(S,G,N) Prune State is > "Pruned"). > > 2.9.2. PIM-DM Downstream Per-Port PIM(S,G,N) State Machine > > The downstream per-port PIM(S,G,N) state machine is as defined in > section 4.4.2 of [PIM-DM] with a few changes relevant to PIM > Snooping. When reading section 4.4.2 of [PIM-DM] for the purposes of > PIM-Snooping please be aware that the downstream states are built per > (S, G, N, Downstream-Port} in PIM-Snooping and not per {Downstream- > Interface, S, G} as in a PIM-DM router. As noted in the previous > Section 2.9.1, the states (DownstreamPState) and timers (PPT and PT) > are per (S,G,N,P). > > 2.9.3. Triggering ASSERT election in PIM-DM > > Since PIM-DM is a flood-and-prune protocol, traffic is flooded to all > routers unless explicitly pruned. Since PIM-DM routers do not prune > on non-RPF interfaces, PEs should typically not receive Prunes on > Rport(RPF-neighbor). So the asserting routers should typically be in > pim_oiflist(S,G). In most cases, assert election should occur > naturally without any special handling since data traffic will be > forwarded to the asserting routers. > > However, there are some scenarios where a prune might be received on > a port which is also an upstream port (UP). If we prune the port > from pim_oiflist(S,G), then it would not be possible for the > asserting routers to determine if traffic arrived on their downstream > port. This can be fixed by adding pim_iifs(S,G) to pim_oiflist(S,G) > so that data traffic flows to the UP ports. > > 2.10. PIM Proxy > > As noted earlier, PIM Snooping will work correctly only if Join > Suppression is disabled in the VPLS. If Join Suppression is enabled > in the VPLS, then PEs MUST do PIM Proxy/Relay for VPLS Multicast to > work correctly. This section applies specifically to the full Proxy > case and not Relay. > > 2.10.1. Upstream PIM Proxy behavior > > A PIM Proxy PE consumes Join/Prune messages and regenerates PIM Join/ > Prune messages to be sent upstream by implementing Upstream FSM as > specified in the PIM RFC. This is the only difference from PIM > Relay. > > **** Is the idea that Proxy aggregates all downstream Joins for (x,G), while > **** Relay does not? That's an interesting advantage over Relay (and > **** Snooping) that is never quite mentioned explicitly. > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 24] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > The source IP address in PIM packets sent upstream SHOULD be the > address of a PIM downstream neighbor in the corresponding join/prune > state. > > **** How do you choose which one, and when do you need to change it? > > The address picked MUST NOT be the upstream neighbor field to > be encoded in the packet. The layer 2 encapsulation for the selected > source IP address MUST be the encapsulation recorded in the PIM > Neighbor database for that IP address. > > > > 2.11. Directly Connected Multicast Source > > If there is a source in the CE network that connects directly into > the VPLS instance, then multicast traffic from that source MUST be > sent to all PIM routers on the VPLS instance apart from the IGMP > receivers in the VPLS. > > **** "apart from"? Why isn't it "in addition to"? > > **** Could you include an explanation of why the traffic from that source > **** must be sent to all the PIM routers? > > If there is already (S,G) or (*,G) snooping > state that is formed on any PE, this will not happen per the current > forwarding rules and guidelines. So, in order to determine if > traffic needs to be flooded to all routers, a PE must be able to > determine if the traffic came from a host on that LAN. There are > three ways to address this problem: > > o The PE would have to do ARP snooping to determine if a source is > directly connected. > > **** Are there any issues if a router is doing proxy ARP for a host behind > **** it? > > o Another option is to have configuration on all PEs to say there > are CE sources that are directly connected to the VPLS instance > and disallow snooping for the groups for which the source is going > to send traffic. This way traffic from that source to those > groups will always be flooded within the provider network. > > **** This would require customer/SP coordination on a per-group basis. > **** While such coordination is sometimes necessary, I think it would be > **** difficult if the customer is not going to get any added functionality > **** from it. > > o A third option is to require that sources of CE multicast traffic > must be behind a router. > > This document recommends the third option - sources traffic must be > behind a router. > > **** I agree. But this is an important applicability restriction, and it's > **** buried quite deep in the document. > > 2.12. Data Forwarding Rules > > First we define the rules that are common to PIM-SM and PIM-DM PEs. > Forwarding rules for each protocol type is specified in the sub- > sections. > > If there is no matching forwarding state, then the PE SHOULD discard > the packet, i.e., the UserDefinedPortList below SHOULD be empty. > > The following general rules MUST be followed when forwarding > multicast traffic in a VPLS: > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 25] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > o Traffic arriving on a port MUST NOT be forwarded back onto the > same port. > > o Due to VPLS Split-Horizon rules, traffic ingressing on a PW MUST > NOT be forwarded to any other PW. > > > 2.12.1. PIM-SM Data Forwarding Rules > > Per the rules in [PIM-SM] and per the additional rules specified in > this document, > > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = immediate_olist(*,G) (+) > UpstreamPorts(*,G) (+) > Rport(PimDR) > > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = inherited_olist(S,G) (+) > UpstreamPorts(S,G) (+) > (UpstreamPorts(*,G) (-) > UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt)) (+) > Rport(PimDR) > > [PIM-SM] specifies how immediate_olist(*,G) and inherited_olist(S,G) > are built. PimDR is the IP address of the PIM DR in the VPLS. > > The PIM-SM Snooping forwarding rules are defined below in pseudocode: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 26] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > BEGIN > iif is the incoming port of the multicast packet. > S is the Source IP Address of the multicast packet. > G is the Destination IP Address of the multicast packet. > > If there is (S,G) state on the PE > Then > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList(S,G) > Else if there is (*,G) state on the PE > Then > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList(*,G) > Else > OutgoingPortList = UserDefinedPortList > Endif > > If iif is an AC > Then > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList (-) iif > Else > ## iif is a PW > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList (-) PWPorts > Endif > > Forward the packet to OutgoingPortList. > END > > First if there is (S,G) state on the PE, then the set of outgoing > ports is OutgoingPortList(S,G). > > Otherwise if there is (*,G) state on the PE, the set of outgoing > ports is OutgoingPortList(*,G). > > The packet is forwarded to the selected set of outgoing ports while > observing the general rules above in Section 2.12 > > 2.12.2. PIM-DM Data Forwarding Rules > > The PIM-DM Snooping data forwarding rules are defined below in > pseudocode: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 27] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > BEGIN > iif is the incoming port of the multicast packet. > S is the Source IP Address of the multicast packet. > G is the Destination IP Address of the multicast packet. > > If there is (S,G) state on the PE > Then > OutgoingPortList = olist(S,G) > Else > OutgoingPortList = UserDefinedPortList > Endif > > If iif is an AC > Then > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList (-) iif > Else > ## iif is a PW > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList (-) PWPorts > Endif > > Forward the packet to OutgoingPortList. > END > > If there is forwarding state for (S,G), then forward the packet to > olist(S,G) while observing the general rules above in section > Section 2.12 > > [PIM-DM] specifies how olist(S,G) is constructed. > > > 3. IANA Considerations > > This document makes no request of IANA. > > Note to RFC Editor: this section may be removed on publication as an > RFC. > > > 4. Security Considerations > > Security considerations provided in VPLS solution documents (i.e., > [VPLS-LDP] and [VPLS-BGP]) apply to this document as well. > > > 5. Contributors > > Yetik Serbest, Suresh Boddapati co-authored earlier versions. > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 28] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > Karl (Xiangrong) Cai and Princy Elizabeth made significant > contributions to bring the specification to its current state, > especially in the area of Join forwarding rules. > > > 6. Acknowledgements > > Many members of the L2VPN and PIM working groups have contributed to > and provided valuable comments and feedback to this draft, including > Vach Kompella, Shane Amante, Sunil Khandekar, Rob Nath, Marc Lassere, > Yuji Kamite, Yiqun Cai, Ali Sajassi, Jozef Raets, Himanshu Shah > (Ciena), Himanshu Shah (Alcatel-Lucent). > > > 7. References > > 7.1. Normative References > > [PIM-BIDIR] > Handley, M., Kouvelas, I., Speakman, T., and L. Vicisano, > "Bidirectional Protocol Independent Multicast (BIDIR- > PIM)", RFC 5015, 2007. > > [PIM-DM] Adams, A., Nicholas, J., and W. Siadak, "Protocol > Independent Multicast Version 2 - Dense Mode > Specification", RFC 3973, 2005. > > [PIM-SM] Fenner, B., Handley, M., Holbrook, H., and I. Kouvelas, > "Protocol Independent Multicast- Sparse Mode (PIM-SM): > Protocol Specification (Revised)", RFC 4601, 2006. > > [PIM-SSM] Holbrook, H. and B. Cain, "Source-Specific Multicast for > IP", RFC 4607, 2006. > > [RFC2119] Bradner, S., "Key words for use in RFCs to Indicate > Requirement Levels", BCP 14, RFC 2119, 1997. > > [RPF-VECTOR] > Wijnands, I., Boers, A., and E. Rosen, "The Reverse Path > Forwarding (RPF) Vector TLV", RFC 5496, 2009. > > 7.2. Informative References > > [IGMP-SNOOP] > Christensen, M., Kimball, K., and F. Solensky, > "Considerations for IGMP and MLD Snooping PEs", RFC 4541, > 2006. > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 29] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > [VPLS-BGP] > Kompella, K. and Y. Rekhter, "Virtual Private LAN Service > using BGP for Auto-Discovery and Signaling", RFC 4761, > 2007. > > [VPLS-LDP] > Lasserre, M. and V. Kompella, "Virtual Private LAN > Services using LDP Signaling", RFC 4762, 2007. > > [VPLS-MCAST-REQ] > Kamite, Y., Wada, Y., Serbest, Y., Morin, T., and L. Fang, > "Requirements for Multicast Support in Virtual Private LAN > Services", RFC 5501, 2009. > > [VPLS-MCAST-TREES] > Aggarwal, R., Kamite, Y., Fang, L., and Y. Rekhter, > "Multicast in VPLS", draft-ietf-l2vpn-vpls-mcast-11, Work > in Progress. > > > Appendix A. PIM-BIDIR Thoughts > > **** I don't understand the purpose of this Appendix. If the procedures > **** below work, why aren't they in the body of the draft? If they don't > **** work, why are they described here. > > This section describes some guidelines that may be used to preserve > PIM-BIDIR functionality in combination with Pim Snooping. > > In order to preserve PIM-BIDIR Pim snooping routers need to set up > forwarding states so that : > > o on the RPL all traffic is forwarded to all Rport(N) > > **** What about received on PW, sent on PW? > > o on any other interface traffic is always forwarded to the DF > > The information needed to setup these states may be obtained by : > > o determining the mapping between group(range) and RP > > o snooping and storing DF election information > > o determining where the RPL is, this could be achieved by static > configuration, or by combining the information mentioned in > previous bullets. > > A.1. PIM-BIDIR Data Forwarding Rules > > The PIM-BIDIR Snooping forwarding rules are defined below in > pseudocode: > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 30] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > BEGIN > iif is the incoming port of the multicast packet. > G is the Destination IP Address of the multicast packet. > > If there is forwarding state for G > Then > OutgoingPortList = olist(G) > Else > OutgoingPortList = UserDefinedPortList > Endif > > If iif is an AC > Then > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList (-) iif > Else > ## iif is a PW > OutgoingPortList = OutgoingPortList (-) PWPorts > Endif > > Forward the packet to OutgoingPortList. > END > > If there is forwarding state for G, then forward the packet to > olist(G) while observing the general rules above in Section 2.12 > > [PIM-BIDIR] specifies how olist(G) is constructed. > > > Appendix B. Example Network Scenario > > Let us consider the scenario in Figure 3. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 31] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > An Example Network for Triggering Assert > > +------+ AC3 +------+ > | PE2 |-----| CE3 | > /| | +------+ > / +------+ | > / | | > / | | > /PW12 | | > / | /---\ > / |PW23 | S | > / | \---/ > / | | > / | | > / | | > +------+ / +------+ | > +------+ | PE1 |/ PW13 | PE3 | +------+ > | CE1 |-----| |-------------| |-----| CE4 | > +------+ AC1 +------+ +------+ AC4 +------+ > | > |AC2 > +------+ > | CE2 | > +------+ > > In the examples below, JT(Port,S,G,N) is the downstream Join Expiry > Timer on the specified Port for the (S,G) with upstream neighbor N. > > B.1. Pim Snooping Example > > In the network depicted in Figure 3, S is the source of a multicast > stream (S,G). CE1 and CE2 both have two ECMP routes to reach the > source. > 1. CE1 Sends a Join(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor(S,G) = CE3. > 2. PE1 snoops on the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding states since it > is received on an AC. It also floods the Join(S,G) in the VPLS. PE2 > snoops on the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding state since the Join(S,G) > is targeting a neighbor residing on an AC. PE3 does not create > forwarding state for (S,G) because this is a PW-only join and there is > neither existing (*,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G) nor an > existing (S,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G). Both PE2 and PE3 > will also flood the Join(S,G) in the VPLS > > The resulting states at the PEs is as follows: > > At PE1: > JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) = JP_HoldTime > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 32] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW12 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { AC1, PW12 } > > At PE2: > JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) = JP_HoldTime > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { AC3 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW12, AC3 } > > At PE3: > No (S,G) state > > 3. The multicast stream (S,G) flows along CE3 -> PE2 -> PE1 -> CE1 > 4. Now CE2 sends a Join(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor(S,G) = CE4. > 5. All PEs snoop on the Join(S,G), build forwarding state and flood the > Join(S,G) in the VPLS. Note that for PE2 even though this is a PW-only > join, forwarding state is built on this Join(S,G) since PE2 has existing > (S,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G) > > The resulting states at the PEs: > > At PE1: > JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) = active > JT(AC2,S,G,CE4) = JP_HoldTime > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3, CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW12, PW13 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { AC1, PW12, AC2, PW13 } > > At PE2: > JT(PW12,S,G,CE4) = JP_HoldTime > JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3, CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { AC3, PW23 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW12, AC3, PW23 } > > At PE3: > JT(PW13,S,G,CE4) = JP_HoldTime > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { AC4 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW13, AC4 } > > 6. The multicast stream (S,G) flows into the VPLS from the two CEs > CE3 and CE4. PE2 forwards the stream received from CE3 to PW23 > and PE3 forwards the stream to AC4. This facilitates the CE > routers to trigger assert election. Let us say CE3 becomes the > assert winner. > 7. CE3 sends an Assert message to the VPLS. The PEs flood the > Assert message without examining it. > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 33] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > 8. CE4 stops sending the multicast stream to the VPLS. > 9. CE2 notices an RPF change due to Assert and sends a Prune(S,G) > with Upstream Neighbor = CE4. CE2 also sends a Join(S,G) with > Upstream Neighbor = CE3. > 10. All the PEs start a prune-pend timer on the ports on which > they received the Prune(S,G). When the prune-pend timer expires, > all PEs will remove the downstream (S,G,CE4) states. > > Resulting states at the PEs: > > At PE1: > JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW12 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { AC1, AC2, PW12 } > > At PE2: > JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { AC3 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW12, AC3 } > > At PE3: > JT(PW13,S,G,CE3) = JP_HoldTime > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW23 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW13, PW23 } > > Note that at this point at PE3, since there is no AC in > OutgoingPortList(S,G) and no (*,G) or (S,G) state with an AC in > UpstreamPorts(*,G) or UpstreamPorts(S,G) respectively, the existing > (S,G) state at PE3 can also be removed. So finally: > > At PE3: > No (S,G) state > > Note that at the end of the assert election, there should be no > duplicate traffic forwarded downstream and traffic should flow only > on the desired path. Also note that there are no unnecessary (S,G) > states on PE3 after the assert election. > > B.2. PIM Proxy Example with (S,G) / (*,G) interaction > > In the same network, let us assume CE4 is the Upstream Neighbor > towards the RP for G. > > JPST(S,G,N) is the JP sending timer for the (S,G) with upstream > neighbor N. > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 34] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > 1. CE1 Sends a Join(S,G) with Upstream Neighbor(S,G) = CE3. > > 2. PE1 consumes the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding state since the > Join(S,G) is received on an AC. > > PE2 consumes the Join(S,G) and builds forwarding state since the > Join(S,G) is targeting a neighbor residing on an AC. > > PE3 consumes the Join(S,G) but does not create forwarding state for > (S,G) since this is a PW-only join and there is neither existing (*,G) > state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G) nor an existing (S,G) state with > an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G) > > The resulting states at the PEs is as follows: > > PE1 states: > JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) = JP_HoldTime > JPST(S,G,CE3) = t_periodic > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW12 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { AC1, PW12 } > > PE2 states: > JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) = JP_HoldTime > JPST(S,G,CE3) = t_periodic > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { AC3 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW12, AC3 } > > PE3 states: > No (S,G) state > > Joins are triggered as follows: > PE1 triggers a Join(S,G) targeting CE3. Since the Join(S,G) was received > on an AC and is targeting a neighbor that is residing across a PW, the > triggered Join(S,G) is sent on all PWs. > > PE2 triggers a Join(S,G) targeting CE3. Since the Joins(S,G) is > targeting a neighbor residing on an AC, it only sends the join on AC3. > > PE3 ignores the Join(S,G) since this is a PW-only join and there is > neither existing (*,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G) nor an > existing (S,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G) > > 3. The multicast stream (S,G) flows along CE3 -> PE2 -> PE1 -> CE1. > > 4. Now let us say CE2 sends a Join(*,G) with UpstreamNeighbor(*,G) = CE4. > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 35] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > 5. PE1 consumes the Join(*,G) and builds forwarding state since the > Join(*,G) is received on an AC. > > PE2 consumes the Join(*,G) and though this is a PW-only join, forwarding > state is build on this Join(*,G) since PE2 has existing (S,G) state with > an AC in UpstreamPorts(S,G). However, since this is a PW-only join, PE2 > only adds the PW towards PE3 (PW23) into UpstreamPorts(*,G) and hence > into OutgoingPortList(*,G). It does not add the PW towards PE1 (PW12) > into OutgoingPortsList(*,G) > > PE3 consumes the Join(*,G) and builds forwarding state since the > Join(*,G) is targeting a neighbor residing on an AC. > > The resulting states at the PEs is as follows: > > PE1 states: > JT(AC1,*,G,CE4) = JP_HoldTime > JPST(*,G,CE4) = t_periodic > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(*,G) = { PW13 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { AC2, PW13 } > > JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) = active > JPST(S,G,CE3) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW12 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { AC1, PW12, PW13 } > > PE2 states: > JT(PW12,*,G,CE4) = JP_HoldTime > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(G) = { PW23 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { PW23 } > > JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) = active > JPST(S,G,CE3) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { AC3 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW12, AC3, PW23 } > > PE3 states: > JT(PW13,*,G,CE4) = JP_HoldTime > JPST(*,G,CE4) = t_periodic > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(*,G) = { AC4 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { PW13, AC4 } > > Joins are triggered as follows: > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 36] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > PE1 triggers a Join(*,G) targeting CE4. Since the Join(*,G) was received > on an AC and is targeting a neighbor that is residing across a PW, the > triggered Join(S,G) is sent on all PWs. > > PE2 does not trigger a Join(*,G) based on this join since this is a > PW-only join. > > PE3 triggers a Join(*,G) targeting CE4. Since the Join(*,G) is targeting > a neighbor residing on an AC, it only sends the join on AC4. > > 6. In case traffic is not flowing yet (i.e. step 3 is delayed to come after > step 6) and in the interim JPST(S,G,CE3) on PE1 expires, causing it to > send a refresh Join(S,G) targeting CE3, since the refresh Join(S,G) is > targeting a neighbor that is residing across a PW, the refresh Join(S,G) > is sent on all PWs. > > 7. Note that PE1 refreshes its JT timer based on reception of refresh joins > from CE1 and CE2 > > PE2 consumes the Join(S,G) and refreshes the JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) timer. > > PE3 consumes the Join(S,G). It also builds forwarding state on this > Join(S,G), even though this is a PW-only join, since now PE2 has existing > (*,G) state with an AC in UpstreamPorts(*,G). However, since this is a > PW-only join, PE3 only adds the PW towards PE2 (PW23) into > UpstreamPorts(S,G) and hence into OutgoingPortList(S,G). It does not add > the PW towards PE1 (PW13) into OutgoingPortList(S,G). > > PE3 States: > JT(PW13,*,G,CE4) = active > JPST(S,G,CE4) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(*,G) = { AC4 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { PW13, AC4 } > > JT(PW13,S,G,CE3) = JP_HoldTime > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(*,G) = { PW23 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { PW13, AC4, PW23 } > > Joins are triggered as follows: > PE2 already has (S,G) state, so it does not trigger a Join(S,G) > based on reception of this refresh join. > > PE3 does not trigger a Join(S,G) based on this join since this is a > PW-only join. > > 8. The multicast stream (S,G) flows into the VPLS from the two > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 37] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > CEs, CE3 and CE4. PE2 forwards the stream received from CE3 to > PW12 and PW23. At the same time PE3 forwards the stream > received from CE4 to PW13 and PW23. > > The stream received over PW12 and PW13 is forwarded by PE1 to > AC1 and AC2. > > The stream received by PE3 over PW23 is forwarded to AC4. The > stream received by PE2 over PW23 is forwarded to AC3. Either of > these facilitates the CE routers to trigger assert election. > > 9. CE3 and/or CE4 send(s) Assert message(s) to the VPLS. The PEs > flood the Assert message(s) without examining it. > > 10. CE3 becomes the (S,G) assert winner and CE4 stops sending the > multicast stream to the VPLS. > > 11. CE2 notices an RPF change due to Assert and sends a > Prune(S,G,rpt) with Upstream Neighbor = CE4. > > 12. PE1 consumes the Prune(S,G,rpt) and since PruneDesired(S,G,Rpt,CE4) is > TRUE, it triggers a Prune(S,G,rpt) to CE4. Since the prune is > targeting a neighbor across a PW, it is sent on all PWs. > > PE2 consumes the Prune(S,G,rpt) and does not trigger any prune > based on this Prune(S,G,rpt) since this was a PW-only prune. > > PE3 consumes the Prune(S,G,rpt) and since PruneDesired(S,G,rpt,CE4) > is TRUE it sends the Prune(S,G,rpt) on AC4. > > PE1 states: > JT(AC2,*,G,CE4) = active > JPST(*,G,CE4) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(*,G) = { PW13 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { AC2, PW13 } > > JT(AC2,S,G,CE4) = JP_Holdtime with FLAG sgrpt prune > JPST(S,G,CE4) = none, since this is sent along > with the Join(*,G) to CE4 based > on JPST(*,G,CE4) expiry > UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) = { PW13 } > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G,rpt) = { CE4 } > > JT(AC1,S,G,CE3) = active > JPST(S,G,CE3) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW12 } > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 38] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { AC1, PW12, AC2 } > > At PE2: > JT(PW12,*,G,CE4) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(*,G) = { PW23 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { PW23 } > > JT(PW12,S,G,CE4) = JP_Holdtime with FLAG sgrpt prune > JPST(S,G,CE4) = none, since this was created > off a PW-only prune > UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) = { PW23 } > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G,rpt) = { CE4 } > > JT(PW12,S,G,CE3) = active > JPST(S,G,CE3) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { AC3 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { PW12, AC3 } > > At PE3: > JT(PW13,*,G,CE4) = active > JPST(*,G,CE4) = active > UpstreamNeighbors(*,G) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(*,G) = { AC4 } > OutgoingPortList(*,G) = { PW13, AC4 } > > JT(PW13,S,G,CE4) = JP_Holdtime with S,G,rpt prune flag > JPST(S,G,CE4) = none, since this is sent along > with the Join(*,G) to CE4 based > on JPST(*,G,CE4) expiry > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G,rpt) = { CE4 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G,rpt) = { AC4 } > > JT(PW13,S,G,CE3) = active > JPST(S,G,CE3) = none, since this state is > created by PW-only join > UpstreamNeighbors(S,G) = { CE3 } > UpstreamPorts(S,G) = { PW23 } > OutgoingPortList(S,G) = { PW23 } > > > Even in this example, at the end of the (S,G) / (*,G) assert > election, there should be no duplicate traffic forwarded downstream > and traffic should flow only to the desired CEs. > > However, the reason we don't have duplicate traffic is because one of > the CEs stops sending traffic due to assert, not because we don't > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 39] > > Internet-Draft l2vpn-pim-snooping April 2014 > > > have any forwarding state in the PEs to do this forwarding. > > > Authors' Addresses > > Olivier Dornon > Alcatel-Lucent > 50 Copernicuslaan > Antwerp, B2018 > > Email: olivier.dornon@alcatel-lucent.com > > > Jayant Kotalwar > Alcatel-Lucent > 701 East Middlefield Rd. > Mountain View, CA 94043 > > Email: jayant.kotalwar@alcatel-lucent.com > > > Venu Hemige > > Email: vhemige@gmail.com > > > Ray Qiu > Juniper Networks, Inc. > 1194 North Mathilda Avenue > Sunnyvale, CA 94089 > > > Email: rqiu@juniper.net > > > Jeffrey Zhang > Juniper Networks, Inc. > 10 Technology Park Drive > Westford, MA 01886 > > Email: zzhang@juniper.net > > > > > > > > > > > Dornon, et al. Expires October 31, 2014 [Page 40] > > From nobody Tue Aug 19 10:25:38 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 241D61A06DF for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 10:25:24 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.567 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.567 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id T4BtYy3Qpkza for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 10:25:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp-fr.alcatel-lucent.com (fr-hpgre-esg-02.alcatel-lucent.com [135.245.210.23]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC1E31A06DE for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 10:25:15 -0700 (PDT) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (unknown [135.239.2.122]) by Websense Email Security Gateway with ESMTPS id 330F94A7003; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:25:10 +0000 (GMT) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id s7JHPCUQ031906 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:25:12 +0200 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.230]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:25:12 +0200 From: "Rabadan, Jorge (Jorge)" To: Antoni Przygienda , "l2vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Re: Some observations/questions on inter-subnet and type-5 draft for EVPN Thread-Topic: Some observations/questions on inter-subnet and type-5 draft for EVPN Thread-Index: Ac+54Vj/kFnQLaMuTYuhBZ6GvOXmLQBLzcyAABNcYIAACkVcAA== Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:25:12 +0000 Message-ID: References: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F181845DE@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F18188FDD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2E4BB27CAB87BF43B4207C0E55860F18188FDD@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.4.2.140509 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.40] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_D018D6094C8F4jorgerabadanalcatellucentcom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/-X3Jwio2V2hHjYZcVlG3B0ZD4yg X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:25:25 -0000 --_000_D018D6094C8F4jorgerabadanalcatellucentcom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 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X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.646 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.646 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.8, DOS_OUTLOOK_TO_MX=2.845, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Cvzh3xMhPC_3 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:01:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from hickoryhill-consulting.com (hhc-web3.hickoryhill-consulting.com [64.9.205.143]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4AEAD1A88D9 for ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 12:01:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Default-Received-SPF: pass (skip=forwardok (res=PASS)) x-ip-name=50.79.160.246; From: "Susan Hares" To: Subject: seeking information on draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 15:00:58 -0400 Message-ID: <00ac01cfbbdf$e9a1f440$bce5dcc0$@ndzh.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00AD_01CFBBBE.6290F080" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Content-Language: en-us Thread-Index: Ac+735DGL/F4J7ALQ5eQWNtJsOMlqg== X-Authenticated-User: skh@ndzh.com Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/if-GdoNGzByP8xZwZ6n6ufdq6C8 Cc: "Ali Sajassi \(sajassi\)" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Aug 2014 19:01:34 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01CFBBBE.6290F080 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi all: The draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-04.txt proposes a tunnel attribute which is similar to draft-vandevelde-idr-remote-next-hop-07 (which is up for WG Adoption in IDR). Can you tell me why we have two proposed BGP attributes for tunnels with a high overlap? My first impression is that "great minds" think align to solve different problems using BGP, but had not chatted with each other to collaborate. Is this reason the drafts are alike? Sue Hares ------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01CFBBBE.6290F080 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi all:

 

The = draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-04.txt proposes a = tunnel attribute which is similar to = draft-vandevelde-idr-remote-next-hop-07 (which is up for WG Adoption in = IDR).   Can you tell me why we have two proposed BGP = attributes for tunnels with a high overlap? =  

 

My first impression is that “great = minds” think align to solve different problems using BGP, but had = not chatted with each other to collaborate.  Is this reason the = drafts are alike?  

 

Sue Hares

 

------=_NextPart_000_00AD_01CFBBBE.6290F080-- From nobody Tue Aug 19 17:30:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 29E921A89FE; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:30:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.081 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BNxt6mj7aiKQ; Tue, 19 Aug 2014 17:30:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9AD7C1A004B; 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boundary="_000_D01A2830E437Csajassiciscocom_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/2xo4zTVXqRDpW0OwsRkXc6f2Qvg X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:32:40 -0000 --_000_D01A2830E437Csajassiciscocom_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Sue, Very good observation! And you are right, there is a high degree of overlap= between the two. As the matter of fact, during the IETF meeting, I had a c= hat with some of the co-authors to point out this overlap and to request to= go with the one in the remote-next-hop draft. Cheers, Ali From: Susan Hares > Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:00 PM To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" > Cc: Cisco Employee >, 'Lucy yon= g' >, "linda.dunbar@huawe= i.com" > Subject: seeking information on draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-inter-subnet-forwa= rding Hi all: The draft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding-04.txt proposes a tunn= el attribute which is similar to draft-vandevelde-idr-remote-next-hop-07 (w= hich is up for WG Adoption in IDR). Can you tell me why we have two propo= sed BGP attributes for tunnels with a high overlap? My first impression is that =93great minds=94 think align to solve differen= t problems using BGP, but had not chatted with each other to collaborate. = Is this reason the drafts are alike? Sue Hares --_000_D01A2830E437Csajassiciscocom_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-ID: <3AC46EDFC541934092429DB7CEA7E31D@emea.cisco.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Sue,

Very good observation! And you are right, there is a high degree of ov= erlap between the two. As the matter of fact, during the IETF meeting, I ha= d a chat with some of the co-authors to point out this overlap and to reque= st to go with the one in the remote-next-hop draft.

Cheers,
Ali

From: Susan Hares <shares@ndzh.com>
Date: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 12:0= 0 PM
To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" <l2v= pn@ietf.org>
Cc: Cisco Employee <sajassi@cisco.com>, 'Lucy yong' <lucy.yong@huawei.com>, "linda.dunbar@huawei.com" <linda.dunbar@huawei.com= >
Subject: seeking information on dra= ft-sajassi-l2vpn-evpn-inter-subnet-forwarding

, "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZvciBkcmFmdC1oYW8t?= =?gb2312?Q?idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt?= Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHPvAyV6atOnhH9DE6j9dLImcRrM5vYoV9zgADsHqCAAMQoQA== Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 02:10:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140820002030.18902.50278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.135.23.94] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/E94xrAazixbSacjjhFEkGpmf4mM Cc: liuweihang X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Aug 2014 02:11:06 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[10.114.31.5]) by omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id EEDD127C053; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:22:40 +0200 (CEST) Received: from OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([169.254.4.43]) by OPEXCLILH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:22:40 +0200 From: To: Haoweiguo , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "'idr@ietf.org'" , "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHPvAyV6atOnhH9DE6j9dLImcRrM5vYoV9zgADsHqCAAMQoQIAB9eqQ Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:22:40 +0000 Message-ID: <29476_1408695761_53F6FDD1_29476_12929_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DB14@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20140820002030.18902.50278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.168.234.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2014.8.22.75120 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/u1YpGSqHi4p9l52FYgxTOyZY8Sc Cc: liuweihang X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:22:47 -0000 SGksDQoNCkkgdGhpbmsgdGhpcyBpcyBhIHZhbHVhYmxlIGFkZGl0aW9uLCBidXQgSSB3b3VsZCBs aWtlIHRvIHNlZSB0aGVzZSBNQUMgZmlsdGVycyBiZWluZyBhcHBsaWNhYmxlIGFsc28gdG8gSVB2 NCBwbHVncyAoRlMgSVB2NCAmIFZQTnY0KQ0KDQpNb3Jlb3ZlciAsIHRoZSBuZXcgQUZJL1NBRkkg c2hvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSByZXN0cmljdGVkIHRvIEVWUE4sIGFueSBMMiBpbnRlcmZhY2UgbWF5IGJl IGludGVyZXN0ZWQgYnkgc3VjaCBmaWx0ZXIgKFZQTFMsIGJhc2ljIEwyIHN3aXRjaGluZyAuLi4p 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b3VsZCBub3QgYmUgZGlzdHJpYnV0ZWQsIHVzZWQgb3IgY29waWVkIHdpdGhvdXQgYXV0aG9yaXNh dGlvbi4KSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5v dGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVyIGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVu dHMuCkFzIGVtYWlscyBtYXkgYmUgYWx0ZXJlZCwgT3JhbmdlIGlzIG5vdCBsaWFibGUgZm9yIG1l c3NhZ2VzIHRoYXQgaGF2ZSBiZWVuIG1vZGlmaWVkLCBjaGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNpZmllZC4KVGhh bmsgeW91LgoK From nobody Fri Aug 22 03:15:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6543A1A0240; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:15:07 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tW216Kb09KIT; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:15:05 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22d.google.com (mail-ie0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 075E01A020A; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id tr6so6165603ieb.4 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:15:04 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=d8vyXLtrQFiH75xcrR0t/M6mzfzTvSvjSom9JUeYf3s=; b=c7TS7FR9iyu0ViBQsfax1IeQ+yNgQRKSpYOhIJjU3TNdKHDibIPtRHLIw0pA/4XgGZ 2wGzIkExpmjJizucJ8cGe2QpT/kpaRQZkXwvB0CCxWFKdSogaPaAtrawjiF/6xX+t+44 Wuc1H6DWlRtCQR6XgFfcDpnlWPFV203N2X6XxzqII8PwOLTo9zVvd9CJLrnnYeygzI8B kugFPr9O4AHFqFsQ5qJhiSp2UVyl8PDir2z6S5zMgepTyDWU3lWkcnRqxmMdpdEmJtax G7xUzIPA3WjfZmy81yQrL+aleyL0dKDwSIzBgKIFWIm0sLRmtBHVio+G2s22Nj4bDZdK 7dWQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.79.132 with SMTP id j4mr26373048igx.9.1408702504373; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.32.141 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:15:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.32.141 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 03:15:04 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <29476_1408695761_53F6FDD1_29476_12929_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DB14@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <20140820002030.18902.50278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <29476_1408695761_53F6FDD1_29476_12929_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DB14@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:15:04 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: CLvZmOFfGxOhVD0pGrYNOzdERQQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: [Idr] New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt From: Robert Raszuk To: "" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e01228e0c5e32690501351c28 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/oDkHwxbAMCAA6lRGe0qoeYi3Zcg Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" , liuweihang , ju1738@att.com X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:15:07 -0000 --089e01228e0c5e32690501351c28 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Stephane, Is FS even comparable to openflow? Are you one of them who believes that SDN =3D OF ? P2MP distribution has advantage when same type of information is required to be present in large number of locations. I think the attempt to build directed arcs with RTC for more and more types of data is not right direction. How about Opflex ? http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-opflex-00 Best, R. On Aug 22, 2014 10:22 AM, wrote: > Hi, > > I think this is a valuable addition, but I would like to see these MAC > filters being applicable also to IPv4 plugs (FS IPv4 & VPNv4) > > Moreover , the new AFI/SAFI should not be restricted to EVPN, any L2 > interface may be interested by such filter (VPLS, basic L2 switching ...)= . > > Route distinguisher may be is missing ... > > Now more globally, may be it's time to think more globally about the > evolution of FS. I pretty see FS evolution largely beyond DDoS domain. FS > is a very good protocol for SDN applications. The question behind is do w= e > really need to work with multiple address families for each type of > "service"/"interface type" to filter or do we need to have a more global > model where we would be able to put any type of filter any where and appl= y > multiple actions (openflow like FS). Compared to openflow, FS has the mag= ic > to enable multipoint distribution of actions. > > Best Regards, > > Stephane > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 04:11 > To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org' > Cc: liuweihang > Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for > draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > Hi Jim, > Thanks for your comments. The BGP Flowspec procedures is illustrated as > following: > > EVPN FlowSpec Session > EVPN FlowSpec Session > DDOS Detection Appliance--------------------------Egress > PE-----------------------------Ingress PE------CE2 > > | > > CE1 DDOS Detection Appliance establishes EVPN flowspec sessio= n > with Egress PE, it detects DDOS attack traffic and generate ACL rule, the > ACL rule is announced to Egress PE through EVPN flowspec protocol, then t= he > egress PE announces it to ingress PE, finally ingress PE installs the ACL > rule for traffic filtering. > DDOS Detection Appliance only needs to support EVPN flowspec function, it > doesn't need to support basic EVPN function. > Thanks > weiguo > ________________________________________ > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: UTTARO, JAMES [ju1738@att.com] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 = 0:29 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Haoweiguo; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org' > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: liuweihang > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowsp= ec-evpn-00.txt > > Weiguo, > > I would like to better understand how a remote PE will "learn" > that it needs to deliver a FS path to the ingress PE?? It cannot come fro= m > the CE as that is data plane learning. I would think that all FS paths ha= ve > to be disseminated by a centralized controller. > > Jim Uttaro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:31 PM > To: idr@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org > Cc: liuweihang > Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for > draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > Hi All, > We have submitted a draft of " Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules > for EVPN". I will appriciate if you can give us some suggestions and > comments. > Thanks > weiguo > > ________________________________________ > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@ie= tf.org] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 = 8:20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; liuweihang; Zhuang= shunwan; liuweihang; > Haoweiguo > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-e= vpn-00.txt > > A new version of I-D, draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Weiguo Hao and posted to the IETF > repository. > > Name: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn > Revision: 00 > Title: Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for EVPN > Document date: 2014-08-20 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 7 > URL: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn/ > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00 > > > Abstract: > This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Ethernet traffic > filtering in EVPN network. A new BGP NLRI type (AFI=3D25, SAFI=3DTBD) > value is proposed to identify EVPN flow-spec application. A new > subset of component types and extended community also are defined. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme o= u > falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have bee= n > modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > --089e01228e0c5e32690501351c28 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Stephane,

Is FS even comparable to openflow?

Are you one of them who believes that SDN =3D OF ?

P2MP distribution has advantage when same type of informatio= n is required to be present in large number of locations.

I think the attempt to build directed arcs with RTC for more= and more types of data is not right direction.

How about Opflex ?

http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-opflex-00

Best,
R.

On Aug 22, 2014 10:22 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote= :
Hi,

I think this is a valuable addition, but I would like to see these MAC filt= ers being applicable also to IPv4 plugs (FS IPv4 & VPNv4)

Moreover , the new AFI/SAFI should not be restricted to EVPN, any L2 interf= ace may be interested by such filter (VPLS, basic L2 switching ...).

Route distinguisher may be is missing ...

Now more globally, may be it's time to think more globally about the ev= olution of FS. I pretty see FS evolution largely beyond DDoS domain. FS is = a very good protocol for SDN applications. The question behind is do we rea= lly need to work with multiple address families for each type of "serv= ice"/"interface type" to filter or do we need to have a more= global model where we would be able to put any type of filter any where an= d apply multiple actions (openflow like FS). Compared to openflow, FS has t= he magic to enable multipoint distribution of actions.

Best Regards,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.= org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 04:11
To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'idr@ietf.org= 9;; 'l2vpn@ietf.org'
Cc: liuweihang
Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-hao-i= dr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt

Hi Jim,
Thanks for your comments. The BGP Flowspec procedures is illustrated as fol= lowing:

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 E= VPN FlowSpec Session=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0= =C2=A0 EVPN FlowSpec Session
DDOS Detection Appliance--------------------------Egress PE----------------= -------------Ingress PE------CE2
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 CE1 DDOS Detection Appliance establishes EVPN flowspec session with = Egress PE, it detects DDOS attack traffic and generate ACL rule, the ACL ru= le is announced to Egress PE through EVPN flowspec protocol, then the egres= s PE announces it to ingress PE, finally ingress PE installs the ACL rule f= or traffic filtering.
DDOS Detection Appliance only needs to support EVPN flowspec function, it d= oesn't need to support basic EVPN function.
Thanks
weiguo
________________________________________
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: UTTARO, JAMES [ju1738@att.com]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 0:= 29
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Haoweiguo; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.= org'
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: liuweihang
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec= -evpn-00.txt

Weiguo,

=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I would like to better understand how a remote = PE will "learn" that it needs to deliver a FS path to the ingress= PE?? It cannot come from the CE as that is data plane learning. I would th= ink that all FS paths have to be disseminated by a centralized controller.<= br>
Jim Uttaro

-----Original Message-----
From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.= org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:31 PM
To: idr@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org
Cc: liuweihang
Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-hao-i= dr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt

Hi All,
We have submitted a draft of " Dissemination of Flow Specification Rul= es for EVPN".=C2=A0 I will appriciate if you can give us some suggesti= ons and comments.
Thanks
weiguo

________________________________________
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: in= ternet-drafts@ietf.org [int= ernet-drafts@ietf.org]
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 8:= 20
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; liuweihang; Zhuangsh= unwan; liuweihang; Haoweiguo
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evp= n-00.txt

A new version of I-D, draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
has been successfully submitted by Weiguo Hao and posted to the IETF reposi= tory.

Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dissemination of Flow Specificatio= n Rules for EVPN
Document date:=C2=A0 2014-08-20
Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 7
URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 htt= p://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatrack= er.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn/
Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://tools.ietf.org/html= /draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00


Abstract:
=C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Ethernet tra= ffic
=C2=A0 =C2=A0filtering in EVPN network. A new BGP NLRI type (AFI=3D25, SAFI= =3DTBD)
=C2=A0 =C2=A0value is proposed to identify EVPN flow-spec application. A ne= w
=C2=A0 =C2=A0subset of component types and extended community also are defi= ned.




Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submissio= n until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

The IETF Secretariat
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Idr mailing list
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htt= ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
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a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message= s electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci.

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--089e01228e0c5e32690501351c28-- From nobody Fri Aug 22 04:55:11 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B15E51A02A5; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 04:54:59 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.898 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.898 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wI7sHPbxcNYJ; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 04:54:55 -0700 (PDT) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias245.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.245]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ADH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with 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dmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBlbWFpbCBpbiBlcnJvciwgcGxlYXNlIG5vdGlmeSB0aGUgc2VuZGVy IGFuZCBkZWxldGUgdGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMuCkFzIGVtYWlscyBt YXkgYmUgYWx0ZXJlZCwgT3JhbmdlIGlzIG5vdCBsaWFibGUgZm9yIG1lc3NhZ2VzIHRoYXQgaGF2 ZSBiZWVuIG1vZGlmaWVkLCBjaGFuZ2VkIG9yIGZhbHNpZmllZC4KVGhhbmsgeW91Lgo8L1BSRT48 L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DBD1OPEXCLILM34corpor_-- From nobody Fri Aug 22 06:46:15 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E24DF1A03A8; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 06:46:13 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id iJuAlPAV85Eu; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 06:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ig0-x22f.google.com (mail-ig0-x22f.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c05::22f]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7AB2B1A03A0; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 06:46:11 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ig0-f175.google.com with SMTP id uq10so14966137igb.8 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 06:46:10 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=rNJa3YFLtOY0wAaCOPQU3qlDs7z8H+gkK2fkv7CXv8I=; b=r4qO+bAF4+I0XiTRWr4MHQs5pr/oyIl8dfQGcHpIrJidb75o5PRGM3F4aD9HeUo28G pH4krG0jipGC8c3Bovo4G0egGAFWtXcCF724yo0yhUjpgysTTDQaPNfRN+MfvRR9C64e BoZlnYTTpwewrahxx090Q7007q3folxDIHIpHwgxqCCjfPSquNpmsijhw1QhwkKzuxUD 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Message-ID: Subject: RE: [Idr] New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt From: Robert Raszuk To: "" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e013cbb8a57d4b80501380f53 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/-GPg9DCorSwH3lL9rD1azbsFLFA Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, "idr@ietf.org" , liuweihang , "ju1738@att.com" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 13:46:14 -0000 --089e013cbb8a57d4b80501380f53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > Is FS even comparable to openflow? > > [SLI] It may be used in a similar way You must be joking ... Best, R. > > P2MP distribution has advantage when same type of information is required to be present in large number of locations. > > [SLI] Right, and there are plenty of applications beyond DDoS. > > > > I think the attempt to build directed arcs with RTC for more and more types of data is not right direction. > > [SLI] I don=E2=80=99t really see why you=E2=80=99re talking about RTC the= re =E2=80=A6 > > > > How about Opflex ? > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-opflex-00 > > [SLI] May be another tool in the tool chest =E2=80=A6 > > > > Best, > R. > > On Aug 22, 2014 10:22 AM, wrote: > > Hi, > > I think this is a valuable addition, but I would like to see these MAC filters being applicable also to IPv4 plugs (FS IPv4 & VPNv4) > > Moreover , the new AFI/SAFI should not be restricted to EVPN, any L2 interface may be interested by such filter (VPLS, basic L2 switching ...). > > Route distinguisher may be is missing ... > > Now more globally, may be it's time to think more globally about the evolution of FS. I pretty see FS evolution largely beyond DDoS domain. FS is a very good protocol for SDN applications. The question behind is do we really need to work with multiple address families for each type of "service"/"interface type" to filter or do we need to have a more global model where we would be able to put any type of filter any where and apply multiple actions (openflow like FS). Compared to openflow, FS has the magic to enable multipoint distribution of actions. > > Best Regards, > > Stephane > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 04:11 > To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org' > Cc: liuweihang > Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > Hi Jim, > Thanks for your comments. The BGP Flowspec procedures is illustrated as following: > > EVPN FlowSpec Session EVPN FlowSpec Session > DDOS Detection Appliance--------------------------Egress PE-----------------------------Ingress PE------CE2 > | > CE1 DDOS Detection Appliance establishes EVPN flowspec session with Egress PE, it detects DDOS attack traffic and generate ACL rule, the ACL rule is announced to Egress PE through EVPN flowspec protocol, then the egress PE announces it to ingress PE, finally ingress PE installs the ACL rule for traffic filtering. > DDOS Detection Appliance only needs to support EVPN flowspec function, it doesn't need to support basic EVPN function. > Thanks > weiguo > ________________________________________ > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: UTTARO, JAMES [ju1738@att.com] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8821=E6=97=A5 = 0:29 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Haoweiguo; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org' > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: liuweihang > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowsp= ec-evpn-00.txt > > Weiguo, > > I would like to better understand how a remote PE will "learn" that it needs to deliver a FS path to the ingress PE?? It cannot come from the CE as that is data plane learning. I would think that all FS paths have to be disseminated by a centralized controller. > > Jim Uttaro > > -----Original Message----- > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:31 PM > To: idr@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org > Cc: liuweihang > Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > Hi All, > We have submitted a draft of " Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for EVPN". I will appriciate if you can give us some suggestions and comments. > Thanks > weiguo > > ________________________________________ > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@ie= tf.org] > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8820=E6=97=A5 = 8:20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; liuweihang; Zhuang= shunwan; liuweihang; Haoweiguo > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-e= vpn-00.txt > > A new version of I-D, draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > has been successfully submitted by Weiguo Hao and posted to the IETF repository. > > Name: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn > Revision: 00 > Title: Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for EVPN > Document date: 2014-08-20 > Group: Individual Submission > Pages: 7 > URL: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn/ > Htmlized: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00 > > > Abstract: > This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Ethernet traffic > filtering in EVPN network. A new BGP NLRI type (AFI=3D25, SAFI=3DTBD) > value is proposed to identify EVPN flow-spec application. A new > subset of component types and extended community also are defined. > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. > > The IETF Secretariat > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. > > _______________________________________________ > Idr mailing list > Idr@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged information that may be protected by law; > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and delete this message and its attachments. > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been modified, changed or falsified. > Thank you. --089e013cbb8a57d4b80501380f53 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable


> Is FS even comparable to openflow?
>
> [SLI] It may be used in a similar way

You must be joking ...

Best,
R.

>
> P2MP distribution has advantage when same type of information is requi= red to be present in large number of locations.
>
> [SLI] Right, and there are plenty of applications beyond DDoS.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> I think the attempt to build directed arcs with RTC for more and more = types of data is not right direction.
>
> [SLI] I don=E2=80=99t really see why you=E2=80=99re talking about RTC = there =E2=80=A6
>
> =C2=A0
>
> How about Opflex ?
>
> http://to= ols.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-opflex-00
>
> [SLI] May be another tool in the tool chest =E2=80=A6
>
> =C2=A0
>
> Best,
> R.
>
> On Aug 22, 2014 10:22 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think this is a valuable addition, but I would like to see these MAC= filters being applicable also to IPv4 plugs (FS IPv4 & VPNv4)
>
> Moreover , the new AFI/SAFI should not be restricted to EVPN, any L2 i= nterface may be interested by such filter (VPLS, basic L2 switching ...). >
> Route distinguisher may be is missing ...
>
> Now more globally, may be it's time to think more globally about t= he evolution of FS. I pretty see FS evolution largely beyond DDoS domain. F= S is a very good protocol for SDN applications. The question behind is do w= e really need to work with multiple address families for each type of "= ;service"/"interface type" to filter or do we need to have a= more global model where we would be able to put any type of filter any whe= re and apply multiple actions (openflow like FS). Compared to openflow, FS = has the magic to enable multipoint distribution of actions.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Stephane
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@= ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 04:11
> To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org'
> Cc: liuweihang
> Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-= hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
>
> Hi Jim,
> Thanks for your comments. The BGP Flowspec procedures is illustrated a= s following:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 EVPN FlowSpec Session=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 EVPN FlowSpec Session
> DDOS Detection Appliance--------------------------Egress PE-----------= ------------------Ingress PE------CE2
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 CE1 DDOS Detection Appliance establishes EVPN flowspec session w= ith Egress PE, it detects DDOS attack traffic and generate ACL rule, the AC= L rule is announced to Egress PE through EVPN flowspec protocol, then the e= gress PE announces it to ingress PE, finally ingress PE installs the ACL ru= le for traffic filtering.
> DDOS Detection Appliance only needs to support EVPN flowspec function,= it doesn't need to support basic EVPN function.
> Thanks
> weiguo
> ________________________________________
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: UTTARO, JAMES [ju1738@att.com]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8821=E6=97= =A5 0:29
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Haoweiguo; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@= ietf.org'
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: liuweihang
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flo= wspec-evpn-00.txt
>
> Weiguo,
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I would like to better understand how a re= mote PE will "learn" that it needs to deliver a FS path to the in= gress PE?? It cannot come from the CE as that is data plane learning. I wou= ld think that all FS paths have to be disseminated by a centralized control= ler.
>
> Jim Uttaro
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@= ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:31 PM
> To: idr@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org
> Cc: liuweihang
> Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-= hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
>
> Hi All,
> We have submitted a draft of " Dissemination of Flow Specificatio= n Rules for EVPN".=C2=A0 I will appriciate if you can give us some sug= gestions and comments.
> Thanks
> weiguo
>
> ________________________________________
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8820=E6=97= =A5 8:20
> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; liuweihang; Zhu= angshunwan; liuweihang; Haoweiguo
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspe= c-evpn-00.txt
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Weiguo Hao and posted to the IETF r= epository.
>
> Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-hao-idr-flowspec-e= vpn
> Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dissemination of Flow Specifi= cation Rules for EVPN
> Document date:=C2=A0 2014-08-20
> Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
> Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 7
> URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ietf.= org/internet-drafts/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
> Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://datatracker.ietf.org/d= oc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn/
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-id= r-flowspec-evpn-00
>
>
> Abstract:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Etherne= t traffic
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0filtering in EVPN network. A new BGP NLRI type (AFI=3D25,= SAFI=3DTBD)
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0value is proposed to identify EVPN flow-spec application.= A new
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0subset of component types and extended community also are= defined.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
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> Idr mailing list
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> ______________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________
>
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> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con= fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez= recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
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--089e013cbb8a57d4b80501380f53-- From nobody Fri Aug 22 09:35:01 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A06B11A03F1; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 09:34:56 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.867 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.867 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id jddyW0s4Mgly; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 09:34:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo05.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo05.seg.att.com [209.65.160.92]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 29BC41A019B; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 09:34:53 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<19516_1408708492_53F72F8C_19516_6719_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DBD1@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.203.55] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550F06D75242MISOUT7MSGUSRCD_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=Ba5vJMR2 c=1 sm=1 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=BlBDPaJd33wA:10 a=Dpy9C0dmZysA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=Rme] X-AnalysisOut: [NMasrQ9oA:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=pGLkceISAAAA:8 a=z9tbli-vAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 ] X-AnalysisOut: [a=SWWn2GPEBppi7uYCQDwA:9 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=MSl-tDqOz04A:] X-AnalysisOut: [10 a=oAXR_kdF8uMA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=Hz7IrDYlS0cA:10 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=rX0H-kwJ-oEA:10 a=IFasRjKLk4jefekn:21 a=Q-7kfMOHtvkPjr-z:] X-AnalysisOut: [21 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ZSBhbHRlcmVkLCBPcmFuZ2UgaXMgbm90IGxpYWJsZSBmb3IgbWVzc2FnZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGJl ZW4gbW9kaWZpZWQsIGNoYW5nZWQgb3IgZmFsc2lmaWVkLjxicj4NCiZndDsgVGhhbmsgeW91Ljxv OnA+PC9vOnA+PC9wPg0KPC9kaXY+DQo8L2JvZHk+DQo8L2h0bWw+DQo= --_000_B17A6910EEDD1F45980687268941550F06D75242MISOUT7MSGUSRCD_-- From nobody Fri Aug 22 10:04:46 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4A7231A066D; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:04:45 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.277 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.277 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9DY279o5nLsE; Fri, 22 Aug 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MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.79.135 with SMTP id j7mr12929045igx.9.1408727082021; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:04:42 -0700 (PDT) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.107.32.141 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.107.32.141 with HTTP; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 10:04:41 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: References: <20140820002030.18902.50278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <29476_1408695761_53F6FDD1_29476_12929_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DB14@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <19516_1408708492_53F72F8C_19516_6719_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DBD1@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 19:04:41 +0200 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Tzdu5ycP0sYdhyl62Wxsgqk8Jf8 Message-ID: Subject: RE: [Idr] New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt From: Robert Raszuk To: "UTTARO, JAMES" Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=089e0122a7544f3cdd05013ad5f2 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/8NoaQKACH8pHCHDeab3pytMKZ0A Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, "idr@ietf.org" , liuweihang X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 17:04:45 -0000 --089e0122a7544f3cdd05013ad5f2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, Can you name one serious vendor which will let you directly add state to their distributed (read LC based) FIB by openflow ? Alternatively can you described any real policy push which will be able to work full p2mp (no src filtering) yet still meet your goals ? /* Stephane .. that was my RTC point */ Best regards, R. On Aug 22, 2014 6:34 PM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: > Robert, > > > > Why can=E2=80=99t it be used in a similar way? > > > > Jim Uttaro > > > > *From:* rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] *On Behalf Of *Rober= t > Raszuk > *Sent:* Friday, August 22, 2014 9:46 AM > *To:* > *Cc:* l2vpn@ietf.org; liuweihang; UTTARO, JAMES; idr@ietf.org; Haoweiguo > *Subject:* RE: [Idr] New Version Notification for > draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > > > > > Is FS even comparable to openflow? > > > > [SLI] It may be used in a similar way > > You must be joking ... > > Best, > R. > > > > > P2MP distribution has advantage when same type of information is > required to be present in large number of locations. > > > > [SLI] Right, and there are plenty of applications beyond DDoS. > > > > > > > > I think the attempt to build directed arcs with RTC for more and more > types of data is not right direction. > > > > [SLI] I don=E2=80=99t really see why you=E2=80=99re talking about RTC t= here =E2=80=A6 > > > > > > > > How about Opflex ? > > > > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-opflex-00 > > > > [SLI] May be another tool in the tool chest =E2=80=A6 > > > > > > > > Best, > > R. > > > > On Aug 22, 2014 10:22 AM, wrote: > > > > Hi, > > > > I think this is a valuable addition, but I would like to see these MAC > filters being applicable also to IPv4 plugs (FS IPv4 & VPNv4) > > > > Moreover , the new AFI/SAFI should not be restricted to EVPN, any L2 > interface may be interested by such filter (VPLS, basic L2 switching ...)= . > > > > Route distinguisher may be is missing ... > > > > Now more globally, may be it's time to think more globally about the > evolution of FS. I pretty see FS evolution largely beyond DDoS domain. FS > is a very good protocol for SDN applications. The question behind is do w= e > really need to work with multiple address families for each type of > "service"/"interface type" to filter or do we need to have a more global > model where we would be able to put any type of filter any where and appl= y > multiple actions (openflow like FS). Compared to openflow, FS has the mag= ic > to enable multipoint distribution of actions. > > > > Best Regards, > > > > Stephane > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo > > Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 04:11 > > To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org' > > Cc: liuweihang > > Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for > draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > > > Hi Jim, > > Thanks for your comments. The BGP Flowspec procedures is illustrated as > following: > > > > EVPN FlowSpec Session > EVPN FlowSpec Session > > DDOS Detection Appliance--------------------------Egress > PE-----------------------------Ingress PE------CE2 > > > | > > > CE1 DDOS Detection Appliance establishes EVPN flowspec > session with Egress PE, it detects DDOS attack traffic and generate ACL > rule, the ACL rule is announced to Egress PE through EVPN flowspec > protocol, then the egress PE announces it to ingress PE, finally ingress = PE > installs the ACL rule for traffic filtering. > > DDOS Detection Appliance only needs to support EVPN flowspec function, > it doesn't need to support basic EVPN function. > > Thanks > > weiguo > > ________________________________________ > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: UTTARO, JAMES [ju1738@att.com] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8821=E6=97= =A5 0:29 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Haoweiguo; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org= ' > > =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: liuweihang > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flow= spec-evpn-00.txt > > > > Weiguo, > > > > I would like to better understand how a remote PE will "learn" > that it needs to deliver a FS path to the ingress PE?? It cannot come fro= m > the CE as that is data plane learning. I would think that all FS paths ha= ve > to be disseminated by a centralized controller. > > > > Jim Uttaro > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo > > Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:31 PM > > To: idr@ietf.org; l2vpn@ietf.org > > Cc: liuweihang > > Subject: [Idr] =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for > draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > > > Hi All, > > We have submitted a draft of " Dissemination of Flow Specification Rule= s > for EVPN". I will appriciate if you can give us some suggestions and > comments. > > Thanks > > weiguo > > > > ________________________________________ > > =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: internet-drafts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@= ietf.org] > > =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2014=E5=B9=B48=E6=9C=8820=E6=97= =A5 8:20 > > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; liuweihang; Zhua= ngshunwan; liuweihang; > Haoweiguo > > =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec= -evpn-00.txt > > > > A new version of I-D, draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > has been successfully submitted by Weiguo Hao and posted to the IETF > repository. > > > > Name: draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn > > Revision: 00 > > Title: Dissemination of Flow Specification Rules for EVPN > > Document date: 2014-08-20 > > Group: Individual Submission > > Pages: 7 > > URL: > http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt > > Status: > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn/ > > Htmlized: > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00 > > > > > > Abstract: > > This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Ethernet traffic > > filtering in EVPN network. A new BGP NLRI type (AFI=3D25, SAFI=3DTBD= ) > > value is proposed to identify EVPN flow-spec application. A new > > subset of component types and extended community also are defined. > > > > > > > > > > Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at > tools.ietf.org. > > > > The IETF Secretariat > > _______________________________________________ > > Idr mailing list > > Idr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > _______________________________________________ > > Idr mailing list > > Idr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message= s > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme > ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have > been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Idr mailing list > > Idr@ietf.org > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr > > > > > _________________________________________________________________________= ________________________________________________ > > > > Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations > confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc > > pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez > recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler > > a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les message= s > electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, > > Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme > ou falsifie. Merci. > > > > This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged > information that may be protected by law; > > they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. > > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and > delete this message and its attachments. > > As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have > been modified, changed or falsified. > > Thank you. > --089e0122a7544f3cdd05013ad5f2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jim,

Can you name one serious vendor which will let you directly = add state to their distributed (read LC based) FIB by openflow ?

Alternatively can you described any real policy push which w= ill be able to work full p2mp (no src filtering) yet still meet your goals = ?

/* Stephane .. that was my RTC point */

Best regards,
R.

On Aug 22, 2014 6:34 PM, "UTTARO, JAMES&quo= t; <ju1738@att.com> wrote:

Robert,

=C2=A0

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Why can= =E2=80=99t it be used in a similar way?

=C2=A0

Jim Uttaro<= /span>

=C2=A0

From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mail= to:rraszuk@gmail.com= ] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk
Sent: Friday, August 22, 2014 9:46 AM
To: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.o= rg; liuweihang; UTTARO, JAMES; idr@ietf.org; Haoweiguo
Subject: RE: [Idr] New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowsp= ec-evpn-00.txt

=C2=A0


> Is FS even comparable to openflow?
>
> [SLI] It may be used in a similar way

You must be joking ...

Best,
R.

>
> P2MP distribution has advantage when same type of information is requi= red to be present in large number of locations.
>
> [SLI] Right, and there are plenty of applications beyond DDoS.
>
> =C2=A0
>
> I think the attempt to build directed arcs with RTC for more and more = types of data is not right direction.
>
> [SLI] I don=E2=80=99t really see why you=E2=80=99re talking about RTC = there =E2=80=A6
>
> =C2=A0
>
> How about Opflex ?
>
> http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-smith-opflex-00
>
> [SLI] May be another tool in the tool chest =E2=80=A6
>
> =C2=A0
>
> Best,
> R.
>
> On Aug 22, 2014 10:22 AM, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I think this is a valuable addition, but I would like to see these MAC= filters being applicable also to IPv4 plugs (FS IPv4 & VPNv4)
>
> Moreover , the new AFI/SAFI should not be restricted to EVPN, any L2 i= nterface may be interested by such filter (VPLS, basic L2 switching ...). >
> Route distinguisher may be is missing ...
>
> Now more globally, may be it's time to think more globally about t= he evolution of FS. I pretty see FS evolution largely beyond DDoS domain. F= S is a very good protocol for SDN applications. The question behind is do w= e really need to work with multiple address families for each type of "service"/"interface type" t= o filter or do we need to have a more global model where we would be able t= o put any type of filter any where and apply multiple actions (openflow lik= e FS). Compared to openflow, FS has the magic to enable multipoint distribution of actions.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> Stephane
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
> Sent: Thursday, August 21, 2014 04:11
> To: UTTARO, JAMES; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org'
> Cc: liuweihang
> Subject: [Idr] =E7= =AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec= -evpn-00.txt
>
> Hi Jim,
> Thanks for your comments. The BGP Flowspec procedures is illustrated a= s following:
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 EVPN FlowSpec Session=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 EVPN FlowSpec Session
> DDOS Detection Appliance--------------------------Egress PE-----------= ------------------Ingress PE------CE2
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0|
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 = =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2= =A0 =C2=A0 CE1 DDOS Detection Appliance establishes EVPN flowspec session w= ith Egress PE, it detects DDOS attack traffic and generate ACL rule, the AC= L rule is announced to Egress PE through EVPN flowspec protocol, then the egress PE announces it to ingr= ess PE, finally ingress PE installs the ACL rule for traffic filtering.
> DDOS Detection Appliance only needs to support EVPN flowspec function,= it doesn't need to support basic EVPN function.
> Thanks
> weiguo
> ________________________________________
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= : UTTARO, JAMES [ju1738= @att.com]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97= =B4: 2014=E5=B9=B4= 8=E6=9C=882= 1=E6=97=A5 0:29 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6= =E4=BA=BA: Haoweiguo; 'idr@ietf.org'; 'l2vpn@ietf.org'
> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: liuweihang
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: RE: New Version Notificat= ion for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
>
> Weiguo,
>
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I would like to better understand how a re= mote PE will "learn" that it needs to deliver a FS path to the in= gress PE?? It cannot come from the CE as that is data plane learning. I wou= ld think that all FS paths have to be disseminated by a centralized controller.
>
> Jim Uttaro
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Idr [mailto:idr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Haoweiguo
> Sent: Tuesday, August 19, 2014 8:31 PM
> To: idr@ietf.org= ; l2vpn@ietf.org
> Cc: liuweihang
> Subject: [Idr] =E7= =AD=94=E5=A4=8D: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec= -evpn-00.txt
>
> Hi All,
> We have submitted a draft of " Dissemination of Flow Specificatio= n Rules for EVPN".=C2=A0 I will appriciate if you can give us some sug= gestions and comments.
> Thanks
> weiguo
>
> ________________________________________
> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA= : internet-drafts@ietf.org [internet-drafts@ietf.org]
> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97= =B4: 2014=E5=B9=B4= 8=E6=9C=882= 0=E6=97=A5 8:20 > =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6= =E4=BA=BA: Zhuangshunwan; Haoweiguo; liuweihang; Zhuangshunwan; liuw= eihang; Haoweiguo
> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: New Version Notification = for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
>
> A new version of I-D, draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt
> has been successfully submitted by Weiguo Hao and posted to the IETF r= epository.
>
> Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0draft-hao-idr-flowspec-e= vpn
> Revision:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A000
> Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Dissemination of Flow Specifi= cation Rules for EVPN
> Document date:=C2=A0 2014-08-20
> Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Individual Submission
> Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 7
> URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt<= br> > Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0https://data= tracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn/
> Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0http://tools.ietf.org= /html/draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00
>
>
> Abstract:
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0This document defines BGP flow-spec extension for Etherne= t traffic
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0filtering in EVPN network. A new BGP NLRI type (AFI=3D25,= SAFI=3DTBD)
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0value is proposed to identify EVPN flow-spec application.= A new
> =C2=A0 =C2=A0subset of component types and extended community also are= defined.
>
>
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of subm= ission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> The IETF Secretariat
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
> ______________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con= fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez= recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me= ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform= e ou falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege= d information that may be protected by law;
> they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.<= br> > If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and= delete this message and its attachments.
> As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have = been modified, changed or falsified.
> Thank you.
>
> _______________________________________________
> Idr mailing list
> Idr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/idr
>
> ______________________________________________________________________= ___________________________________________________
>
> Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations con= fidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
> pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez= recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
> a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les me= ssages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
> Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deform= e ou falsifie. Merci.
>
> This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privilege= d information that may be protected by law;
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FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHwINnBkdp4d; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-ie0-x22c.google.com (mail-ie0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22c]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 37DC51A0AFE; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:30:40 -0700 (PDT) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id lx4so7164568iec.31 for ; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 14:30:39 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=2xnjJHYI1+uTZ7FbddsZFt/5QhLHDBN1fKpD4M6jKD0=; b=zB8JTgUzBjVAFcVwDb7GJumFwxLKvudGUdKGmRa0PrUZpH4kn9i8b2yTWKjf8ZUgbv 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draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt From: Robert Raszuk To: "UTTARO, JAMES" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/s3PrCr0sym6c34LiaN8upAR8Hfs Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "idr@ietf.org" , liuweihang X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 21:30:41 -0000 > Hi Jim, > > Can you name one serious vendor which will let you directly add state to > their distributed (read LC based) FIB by openflow ? > > [Jim U>] I would not presume that folks will not try to incorporate openflow > into their existing networks. Good luck ! > IMO this is not trivial. You are very correct here. > I am confused as to your statement that FS cannot do similar things to OF.. Well this discussion is well beyond email one I am afraid. For someone who spend last three years with goal to use openflow I can rest assure you that OF does not go any good to push policy to end points, nor it does any good to push policy to RIBs. If I compare the portfolio forces in fact could be made much closer to compliment I2RS then OF is today with their research 1.x version. And this is not about OF believes/religion .. this is all about L3 mindset vs L2 mindset of folks involved. Most OF folks are happy to run 5 L2/L3 (same segment) pings to prove their solution is rock solid. Some folks with some years of large scale routing behind their belts are however a bit different in the way they build networks .... Best, R. From nobody Fri Aug 22 15:19:10 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 09C731A06FB; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:19:09 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.818 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.818 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_42=0.6, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FdTsdN4nvqIS; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:19:07 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 04B841A03FA; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 15:19:06 -0700 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verify=NO); Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:33:22 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUBAG.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUBAG.itservices.sbc.com [130.9.129.151]) by mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:33:11 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSRCD.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.4.153]) by MISOUT7MSGHUBAG.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.9.129.151]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Fri, 22 Aug 2014 08:33:11 -0400 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "'stephane.litkowski@orange.com'" , "'Haoweiguo'" , "'idr@ietf.org'" , "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHPvAyV6atOnhH9DE6j9dLImcRrM5vYoV9zgADsHqCAAMQoQIAB9eqQgABKgsA= Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 12:33:11 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140820002030.18902.50278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , <29476_1408695761_53F6FDD1_29476_12929_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DB14@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> 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X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/SfYx_3zlSKFQ6rbPJqEqxeL-l7o Cc: 'liuweihang' X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Aug 2014 22:19:09 -0000 U3RlcGhhbmUsDQoNCglDb21tZW50cyBJbi1MaW5lLg0KDQpKaW0gVXR0YXJvDQoNCi0tLS0tT3Jp Z2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBzdGVwaGFuZS5saXRrb3dza2lAb3JhbmdlLmNvbSBb bWFpbHRvOnN0ZXBoYW5lLmxpdGtvd3NraUBvcmFuZ2UuY29tXSANClNlbnQ6IEZyaWRheSwgQXVn dXN0IDIyLCAyMDE0IDQ6MjMgQU0NClRvOiBIYW93ZWlndW87IFVUVEFSTywgSkFNRVM7ICdpZHJA aWV0Zi5vcmcnOyAnbDJ2cG5AaWV0Zi5vcmcnDQpDYzogbGl1d2VpaGFuZw0KU3ViamVjdDogUkU6 IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaGFvLWlkci1mbG93c3BlYy1ldnBu LTAwLnR4dA0KDQpIaSwNCg0KSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIGEgdmFsdWFibGUgYWRkaXRpb24sIGJ1 dCBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gc2VlIHRoZXNlIE1BQyBmaWx0ZXJzIGJlaW5nIGFwcGxpY2FibGUg 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bWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzLg0KQXMgZW1haWxzIG1heSBiZSBhbHRlcmVkLCBP cmFuZ2UgaXMgbm90IGxpYWJsZSBmb3IgbWVzc2FnZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4gbW9kaWZpZWQs IGNoYW5nZWQgb3IgZmFsc2lmaWVkLg0KVGhhbmsgeW91Lg0KDQo= From nobody Sat Aug 23 00:08:41 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 149111A00A9; Sat, 23 Aug 2014 00:08:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.081 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mHsNXEPjbjEI; Sat, 23 Aug 2014 00:08:21 -0700 (PDT) Received: from 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Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Aug 2014 07:08:25 -0000 SGkgU3RlcGhhbmUsDQpUaGFua3MgZm9yIHlvdXIgZGV0YWlsIGNvbW1lbnRzLiBQbHMgc2VlIG15 IHJlcGx5IGlubGluZSB3aXRoIFt3ZWlndW9dIGJlbG93Lg0Kd2VpZ3VvDQoNCl9fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18NCreivP7Iyzogc3RlcGhhbmUubGl0a293c2tp QG9yYW5nZS5jb20gW3N0ZXBoYW5lLmxpdGtvd3NraUBvcmFuZ2UuY29tXQ0Kt6LLzcqxvOQ6IDIw MTTE6jjUwjIyyNUgMTY6MjINCsrVvP7IyzogSGFvd2VpZ3VvOyBVVFRBUk8sIEpBTUVTOyAnaWRy QGlldGYub3JnJzsgJ2wydnBuQGlldGYub3JnJw0Ks63LzTogbGl1d2VpaGFuZw0K1vfM4jogUkU6 IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQtaGFvLWlkci1mbG93c3BlYy1ldnBu LTAwLnR4dA0KDQpIaSwNCg0KSSB0aGluayB0aGlzIGlzIGEgdmFsdWFibGUgYWRkaXRpb24sIGJ1 dCBJIHdvdWxkIGxpa2UgdG8gc2VlIHRoZXNlIE1BQyBmaWx0ZXJzIGJlaW5nIGFwcGxpY2FibGUg YWxzbyB0byBJUHY0IHBsdWdzIChGUyBJUHY0ICYgVlBOdjQpDQpbd2VpZ3VvXTogVGhhbmtzLiBC 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ZCwgY2hhbmdlZCBvciBmYWxzaWZpZWQuDQpUaGFuayB5b3Uu From nobody Sun Aug 24 22:14:55 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD6FC1A8A16; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 22:14:53 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -100.893 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-100.893 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, LOCALPART_IN_SUBJECT=1.107, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-0.7, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FcHkN6Hy9UV1; Sun, 24 Aug 2014 22:14:51 -0700 (PDT) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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boundary="_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82567Eeusaamb103erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrLLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPn+6Swl/BBt8a+Sz2bnvJavH42yF2 i1tLV7JazL/YyGrxdL6kxec/2xgtjl/4zWgxb9cHJgcOjyVLfjJ5fLn8mS2AKYrLJiU1J7Ms tUjfLoEr4/yZ1ewFN6oqdrT/YGlg3JTVxcjJISFgIvHgxG0mCFtM4sK99WwgtpDAUUaJX4/0 IezljBJbvumA2GwCRhIvNvawg9giAuESK+7/ALK5OJgFGpkk5j5+BdYsLKAgsfndbxaIIlWJ /Y3/mSFsPYn38w+CxVmA4lc6JoIN4hXwlZjWfAaslxHoiO+n1oAdxCwgLnHryXyo4wQkluw5 zwxhi0q8fPyPFcJWkvj4ez47RH2+xJUdp1kgZgpKnJz5hGUCo/AsJKNmISmbhaQMIq4jsWD3 JzYIW1ti2cLXzDD2mQOPmZDFFzCyr2LkKC1OLctNNzLYxAiMr2MSbLo7GPe8tDzEKMDBqMTD u2D7z2Ah1sSy4srcQ4zSHCxK4ryzaucFCwmkJ5akZqemFqQWxReV5qQWH2Jk4uCUamBk2JL7 oOnR171K7X9yJ/8N3Gi1VcxsvsNGufZ+i3lznpjezzKb6+DSW3XFP3ey28Rp7U0+1e/WlL2N 4t280WCqyoLXKxKfak7dan3F5eXBuX1f37vMrzaasdZdfjHjTTV2Kft/r8yuH+linHP6FN83 HfN7B7o3KpqlB1jWZUQdb45PPTBlUd4aJZbijERDLeai4kQAvcFrVJACAAA= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/yTFz35jDmuXwMBAtvUjOjZllAHE Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "time@ietf.org" , "'netmod@ietf.org'" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 05:14:54 -0000 --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82567Eeusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Dear Authors, et.al, please kindly consider my comments and questions to this document: * Introduction o "... it is a reasonable choice to develop the unified OAM framework ba= sed on those (CFM) concepts." I agree that for packet switching connection-= oriented networks that are based on G.800 architecture CFM, but more so Y.1= 731, provides shared concepts. I think that the same cannot be said for con= nectionless packet switching networks. Thus extending CFM model onto arbitr= ary networks without consideration whether these are connection-oriented or= connectionless is very questionable approach, IMO; o "...CFM, it is a reasonable choice to develop the unified OAM framework= based on those concepts" IP OAM is not based on Ethernet Service OAM model= or principles but, IMO, OAM of overlay networks more closer resemble IP OA= M as these networks are connectionless in their architecture; o "The YANG model presented in this document is the base model and suppor= ts IP Ping and Traceroute." If only these and similar OAM tools, e.g. LSP p= ing, Loopback/Linktrace, are in scope of the document, then, I believe, the= title may say something like "YANG model of on-demand OAM tool to detect a= nd localize Loss of Continuity defect". Referring to ping/traceroute as "ge= neric OAM" comes as stretch too far; o "...initiate a performance monitoring session can do so in the same ma= nner regardless of the underlying protocol or technology" I'd point to work= of LMAP WG on informational model of performance measurements in large-sca= le access networks, work of ITU-T's SG15, MEF. Perhaps sentence can be stop= ped after "... or a Traceroute". o "In this document we define the YANG model for Generic OAM" Can you pro= vide definition or reference to the definition of the "Generic OAM"? It is = challenging to validate informational model of something that not been suff= iciently defined. * Section 3 o "This allows users to traverse between OAM of different technologies at= ease through a uniform API set." Usually relationships between OAM layers = referred and viewed as OAM interworking. There are several examples of IETF= addressing aspects of OAM interworking. I think that interworking includes= not only scenarios of nested OAM layers but peering layers and thus is bro= ader than introduced in the document "nested OAM". o Figure 1 depicts OAM of both connection-oriented and connectionless net= works. What you see common, generic in respective OAM of these networks? * Section 4 o "In IP, the MA can be per IP Subnet ..." As there's no definition of MA= in IP, is this the definition or one of examples. Can MA in IP network be = other than per IP Subnet? o "Under each MA, there can be two or more MEPs (Maintenance End Points)"= Firstly, since you adopt MA-centric terminology, MEP stands for Maintenanc= e Association End Point. Secondly, in some OAM models Down and Up MEP being= distinguished. Would your model consider that? As there's no definition of= MEP for several networks you've listed, e.g. IP, how the YANG model will a= bstract something that is not defined? And thirdly, how and where MIPs are = located in IP OAM? Thank you for your consideration of my notes and looking forward to the int= eresting discussion. Regards, Greg --_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82567Eeusaamb103erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Dear Authors, et.al,

please kindly consider my comments and questions to = this document:

·         Introduction

o    “… it is a reasonable choi= ce to develop the unified OAM framework based on those (CFM) concepts.̶= 1; I agree that for packet switching connection-oriented networks that are = based on G.800 architecture CFM, but more so Y.1731, provides shared concepts. I think that the same cannot be said for connectionless p= acket switching networks. Thus extending CFM model onto arbitrary networks = without consideration whether these are connection-oriented or connectionle= ss is very questionable approach, IMO;

o   “…CFM, it is a reasonable choice= to develop the unified OAM framework based on those concepts” IP OAM= is not based on Ethernet Service OAM model or principles but, IMO, OAM of = overlay networks more closer resemble IP OAM as these networks are connectionless in their architecture;

o   “The YANG model presented in this docu= ment is the base model and supports IP Ping and Traceroute.” If only = these and similar OAM tools, e.g. LSP ping, Loopback/Linktrace, are in scop= e of the document, then, I believe, the title may say something like “YANG model of on-demand OAM tool to detect a= nd localize Loss of Continuity defect”. Referring to ping/traceroute = as “generic OAM” comes as stretch too far;

o    “…initiate a performance m= onitoring session can do so in the same manner regardless of the underlying= protocol or technology” I’d point to work of LMAP WG on inform= ational model of performance measurements in large-scale access networks, work of ITU-T’s SG15, MEF. Perhaps sentence can be stopped= after “… or a Traceroute”.

o   “In this document we define the YANG m= odel for Generic OAM” Can you provide definition or reference to the = definition of the “Generic OAM”? It is challenging to validate = informational model of something that not been sufficiently defined.

·         Section 3

o   “This allows users to traverse between= OAM of different technologies at ease through a uniform API set.” Us= ually relationships between OAM layers referred and viewed as OAM interwork= ing. There are several examples of IETF addressing aspects of OAM interworking. I think that interworking includes not only s= cenarios of nested OAM layers but peering layers and thus is broader than i= ntroduced in the document “nested OAM”.

o   Figure 1 depicts OAM of both connection-orie= nted and connectionless networks. What you see common, generic in respectiv= e OAM of these networks?

·         Section 4

o   “In IP, the MA can be per IP Subnet &#= 8230;” As there’s no definition of MA in IP, is this the defini= tion or one of examples. Can MA in IP network be other than per IP Subnet?<= o:p>

o   “Under each MA, there can be two or mo= re MEPs (Maintenance End Points)” Firstly, since you adopt MA-centric= terminology, MEP stands for Maintenance Association End Point. Secondly, i= n some OAM models Down and Up MEP being distinguished. Would your model consider that? As there’s no definition of MEP for = several networks you’ve listed, e.g. IP, how the YANG model will abst= ract something that is not defined? And thirdly, how and where MIPs are loc= ated in IP OAM?

 

Thank you for your consideration of my notes and loo= king forward to the interesting discussion.

 

Regards,

    =     Greg

--_000_7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82567Eeusaamb103erics_-- From nobody Mon Aug 25 02:53:30 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C25A91A8BB1; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 02:53:26 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.419 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.419 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0W2FqmxRHgGh; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 02:53:24 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 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d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWRyDQo= From nobody Mon Aug 25 09:28:40 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F1A11A0141; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:28:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.001 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.001 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_20=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TP_Tms56c3Mc; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:28:36 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7BEA1A0410; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:13:48 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-09.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140825161348.27460.76172.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 09:13:48 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/3t4Vi6bNapBl0BGwOKITuJfeXe4 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 16:28:38 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for Ethernet Tree (E-Tree) Service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Network Authors : Raymond Key Lucy Yong Simon Delord Frederic Jounay Lizhong Jin Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-09.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2014-08-25 Abstract: This document describes an Ethernet-Tree (E-Tree) solution framework for supporting the Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) E-Tree service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) network. The objective is to provide a simple and effective approach to emulate E-Tree services in addition to Ethernet LAN (E-LAN) services on an existing MPLS network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-09 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-09 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Aug 25 14:54:20 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D22F51A0328; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:54:17 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id IFj0qY9QWRXC; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:54:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 63AD21A03BE; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:54:14 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-10.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140825215414.12099.53620.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 14:54:14 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/2iMrTGTxoiEOdjVV-R9XddgpwD0 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 21:54:18 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories. This draft is a work item of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group of the IETF. Title : A Framework for Ethernet Tree (E-Tree) Service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Network Authors : Raymond Key Lucy Yong Simon Delord Frederic Jounay Lizhong Jin Filename : draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-10.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2014-08-25 Abstract: This document describes an Ethernet-Tree (E-Tree) solution framework for supporting the Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) E-Tree service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) network. The objective is to provide a simple and effective approach to emulate E-Tree services in addition to Ethernet LAN (E-LAN) services on an existing MPLS network. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk/ There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-10 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-10 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From nobody Mon Aug 25 15:19:05 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8AE31A03ED; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:19:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rFwMcRriPX9B; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:19:01 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2A4E1A03EF; Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:18:31 -0700 (PDT) Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: The IESG To: IETF-Announce Subject: Document Action: 'A Framework for Ethernet Tree (E-Tree) Service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Network' to Informational RFC (draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-10.txt) X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140825221831.32496.72419.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 15:18:31 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/ky_bn26qV-OSzAQ4V4NWdH7LEfY Cc: l2vpn mailing list , l2vpn chair , RFC Editor X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Aug 2014 22:19:02 -0000 The IESG has approved the following document: - 'A Framework for Ethernet Tree (E-Tree) Service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) Network' (draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk-10.txt) as Informational RFC This document is the product of the Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks Working Group. The IESG contact persons are Adrian Farrel and Alia Atlas. A URL of this Internet Draft is: http://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l2vpn-etree-frwk/ Technical Summary: This document describes an Ethernet-Tree (E-Tree) solution framework for supporting the Metro Ethernet Forum (MEF) E-Tree service over a Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) network. The objective is to provide a simple and effective approach to emulate E-Tree services in addition to Ethernet LAN (E-LAN) services on an existing MPLS network. An E-Tree service is defined by one or more roots and one or more leaves. Roots can send traffic to other roots and leaves and receive traffic from other roots and leaves within the same service instance. Leaves can only receive traffic from roots and send traffic to roots in the same service instance. Working Group Summary: This document is an L2VPN Working Group document. It has gone through few iterations and addressed quite few comments/input/edits from the WG chairs that resulted in draft version 4 that passed WG LC with many people supporting it. Versions 5 and 6 addressed some indicts. Document Quality: The document has good quality. It is clear on the technical content and written with good English and layout. There are a couple of edits needed that can be taken up during the RFC edits. Personnel: Document Shepherd: Nabil Bitar (nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com) Area Director: Adrian Farrel (adrian@olddog.co.uk) From nobody Wed Aug 27 04:31:26 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3FADE1A0646; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 04:31:23 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.081 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.081 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id JIXMJ2rDnoiv; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 04:31:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher 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ciBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gSWRyQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21h aWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vaWRy From nobody Wed Aug 27 06:35:08 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71F2E1A06BB; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 06:35:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.418 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.418 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7kKLFdXbDhKj; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 06:35:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by 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[130.9.128.239]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s7RDWhwn014280 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Wed, 27 Aug 2014 09:32:53 -0400 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUBAE.itservices.sbc.com [130.9.129.149]) by mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Wed, 27 Aug 2014 13:32:23 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSRCD.ITServices.sbc.com ([169.254.4.175]) by MISOUT7MSGHUBAE.ITServices.sbc.com ([130.9.129.149]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 09:32:23 -0400 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "'Haoweiguo'" , "'Dongjie (Jimmy)'" , "'stephane.litkowski@orange.com'" , "'idr@ietf.org'" , "'l2vpn@ietf.org'" Subject: RE: [Idr] New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt Thread-Topic: [Idr] New Version Notification for draft-hao-idr-flowspec-evpn-00.txt Thread-Index: AQHPwEpwnawqpEyPCE6UVQB6lL32KZvkl0KA///fPYA= Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 13:32:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <20140820002030.18902.50278.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> , <29476_1408695761_53F6FDD1_29476_12929_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9207DB14@OPEXCLILM34.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, <76CD132C3ADEF848BD84D028D243C927337098E0@nkgeml512-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.91.76.224] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=AqZZKpBP c=1 sm=1 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=BlBDPaJd33wA:10 a=Dpy9C0dmZysA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=a6l] X-AnalysisOut: [YbgGDhh4A:10 a=BLceEmwcHowA:10 a=_l4uJm6h9gAA:10 a=zQP7CpK] X-AnalysisOut: [OAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32RAAAA:8 a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=z9tbli-vAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=Te5OmtpG8VwVMJoOXoQA:9 a=mFyHDrcPJccA:] X-AnalysisOut: [10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10 a=oAXR_kdF8uMA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a] 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by9pZHINCg== From nobody Wed Aug 27 10:56:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 094AB1A0337; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 10:53:28 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MwewNHdSz1BD; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 10:53:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D6E7A1A0035; Wed, 27 Aug 2014 10:53:26 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Secretariat To: raggarwa_1@yahoo.com, sajassi@cisco.com, aisaac71@bloomberg.net, uttaro@att.com, nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com Subject: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-07 X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 5.6.2.p5 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20140827175326.16957.8212.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 10:53:26 -0700 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/udVCVWx4-G0D3iFpEgt1tmP5RtY X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 10:56:48 -0700 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, giheron@cisco.com, akatlas@gmail.com, ipr-announce@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Aug 2014 17:53:28 -0000 Dear Rahul Aggarwal, Ali Sajassi, Aldrin Isaac, Jim Uttaro, Dr. Nabil N. Bitar: An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "BGP MPLS Based Ethernet VPN" (draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn) was submitted to the IETF Secretariat on 2014-08-27 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual Property Rights Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2420/). The title of the IPR disclosure is "Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-07.""); The IETF Secretariat From nobody Thu Aug 28 08:24:50 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E2D9C1A030A; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:24:38 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -13.168 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-13.168 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_05=-0.5, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_22=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.668, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BDtdGBpeqD9G; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:24:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com [173.37.86.75]) (using TLSv1 with cipher RC4-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4C96D1A06FC; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 08:24:33 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=29477; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1409239473; x=1410449073; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:mime-version; bh=UUaWlJnTkIdT2jpeN2ooo6VAdPLfWpG3/ZUrZmZ7C7o=; b=haYGHHnGj4B1Y2Tx04CiPsMf2sKsQxzuhGAmkkvXrElFO6Ra94bOS4kG Ixc5ncHRZAYdoLggiZwDsm7CGKbmDBFuh2tpXZUkyqR0ctCz4DaFZjEsQ SlLkPv3Szn64ip29nnzxCJdyT1A+W37xaLUC3Jhge7MjN4QaQQTvbgU1G 0=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag0FACFJ/1OtJV2R/2dsb2JhbABbgkdGU1cE03YBgRkWd4QDAQEBBC05DAcQAgEIEQEDAQELFgcHMhQDBggBAQQBDQUIE4gnv0oXjnQnMQYBgy+BHQWRL6BIg15sgQYCHgYcgQcBAQE X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="5.04,418,1406592000"; d="scan'208,217";a="351062464" Received: from rcdn-core-9.cisco.com ([173.37.93.145]) by rcdn-iport-4.cisco.com with ESMTP; 28 Aug 2014 15:24:15 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com [173.37.183.84]) by rcdn-core-9.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id s7SFOF8Q007812 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:24:15 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x08.cisco.com ([169.254.8.110]) by xhc-rcd-x10.cisco.com ([173.37.183.84]) with mapi id 14.03.0195.001; Thu, 28 Aug 2014 10:24:15 -0500 From: "Tissa Senevirathne (tsenevir)" To: Gregory Mirsky , "'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org'" Subject: RE: draft-tissa-netmod-oam Thread-Topic: draft-tissa-netmod-oam Thread-Index: Ac+tKouGZjiF/7GjRZGwGunQsgwS9AVplJ1w Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:24:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82567E@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <7347100B5761DC41A166AC17F22DF1121B82567E@eusaamb103.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.89.14.1] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_FBEA3E19AA24F847BA3AE74E2FE193562EF118C6xmbrcdx08ciscoc_" MIME-Version: 1.0 Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/nsIVBv_YGEfznPWnMH-ysB8t1b0 Cc: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "mpls@ietf.org" , "spring@ietf.org" , "time@ietf.org" , "'netmod@ietf.org'" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , "rtg-bfd@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Aug 2014 15:24:39 -0000 --_000_FBEA3E19AA24F847BA3AE74E2FE193562EF118C6xmbrcdx08ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Greg Before answering the specific questions below, would like explain few aspe= cts related to the extended CFM model used here. CFM originally was design= ed exclusively for Ethernet. As part of the TRILL OAM work we decoupled CFM= model from Ethernet based addressing and made it addressing independent. T= hat is the CFM model that is referred here. CFM defines a complete fault model that include fault domains, Test point, = Layering etc. Strict definition of such is needed to develop a complete OAM= solution regardless of the underline technology. CFM does a fantastic job = in accomplishing that and AFIK there is no other model. We are leveraging t= hat model. The word generic OAM is utilized here to indicate that the model can be app= lied regardless of the underlying technology. YANG model is not a one-one copy of CFM YANG defined in MEF. Rather it is d= efined with address independent and extensibility in mind. With the above in mind, specific answers in-line: From: L2vpn [mailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Mirsky Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:15 PM To: 'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org' Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; time@ietf.org; 'netmod@= ietf.org'; nvo3@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org Subject: draft-tissa-netmod-oam Dear Authors, et.al, please kindly consider my comments and questions to this document: * Introduction o "... it is a reasonable choice to develop the unified OAM framework ba= sed on those (CFM) concepts." I agree that for packet switching connection-= oriented networks that are based on G.800 architecture CFM, but more so Y.1= 731, provides shared concepts. I think that the same cannot be said for con= nectionless packet switching networks. Thus extending CFM model onto arbitr= ary networks without consideration whether these are connection-oriented or= connectionless is very questionable approach, IMO; [Answer] As stated above it is the OAM Model that is leveraged here. Regard= less of connection oriented or not the model on Fault domains, Test points = etc is valid. In theory connection oriented can be broken in to connection establishment = and data forwarding. With that in mind, one can define Fault domain and tes= t points. Followed by definition of the Fault identifications tools accordi= ngly. Do you have a preferred OAM tool for fault verification/isolation and loss= and performance monitoring for connection oriented connectuons ?. If so wo= uld like to review and map to the model. o "...CFM, it is a reasonable choice to develop the unified OAM framework= based on those concepts" IP OAM is not based on Ethernet Service OAM model= or principles but, IMO, OAM of overlay networks more closer resemble IP OA= M as these networks are connectionless in their architecture; [Answer] Please see the answer above and extended CFM model. It is the mod= el that is presented here, regardless of the connectioness, OAM tools need= fault domains and fault boundaries. Addidtionally as stated in the explana= tion above, there is nothing Ethernet in CFM, once the addressing is decoup= led. o "The YANG model presented in this document is the base model and suppor= ts IP Ping and Traceroute." If only these and similar OAM tools, e.g. LSP p= ing, Loopback/Linktrace, are in scope of the document, then, I believe, the= title may say something like "YANG model of on-demand OAM tool to detect a= nd localize Loss of Continuity defect". Referring to ping/traceroute as "ge= neric OAM" comes as stretch too far; [Answer] I think there is a miss understanding this model is not limited to= Ping and Trace route. Ping and traceroute are only examples to get the wor= k stared and discussion going. As we go along other tools will be mapped to= the model. o "...initiate a performance monitoring session can do so in the same ma= nner regardless of the underlying protocol or technology" I'd point to work= of LMAP WG on informational model of performance measurements in large-sca= le access networks, work of ITU-T's SG15, MEF. Perhaps sentence can be stop= ped after "... or a Traceroute". [Answer] I did not fully understand your point. o "In this document we define the YANG model for Generic OAM" Can you pro= vide definition or reference to the definition of the "Generic OAM"? It is = challenging to validate informational model of something that not been suff= iciently defined. [Answer] As explained earlier terminology generic OAM is used to indicate = that the presented OAM model can be applied independent of the underlying t= echnology. In section 1, we have stated the following: "..In this document,= we take the [8021Q] CFM model and extend it to a technology independent fr= amework and build the corresponding YANG model accordingly. The YANG model = presented in this document is the base model and supports IP Ping and Trace= route. The generic OAM YANG model is designed such that it can be extended = to cover various technologies. Technology dependent nodes and RPC commands = are defined in technology specific YANG models, which use and extend the ba= se model defined here. .... " * Section 3 o "This allows users to traverse between OAM of different technologies at= ease through a uniform API set." Usually relationships between OAM layers = referred and viewed as OAM interworking. There are several examples of IETF= addressing aspects of OAM interworking. I think that interworking includes= not only scenarios of nested OAM layers but peering layers and thus is bro= ader than introduced in the document "nested OAM". [Answer] Can you please provide some example here, I am not quite clear. Guessing from the word peering, if we are referring to cascaded sections of= different technologies such as IP Cloud, MPLS cloud and another IP cloud. = Then the model presented here is the answer. You can have an end end OAM se= ssion at a higher MD-Level. Each of the clouds below can have separate OAM = at a lower MD-Level. These can be utilized for fault isolation. o Figure 1 depicts OAM of both connection-oriented and connectionless net= works. What you see common, generic in respective OAM of these networks? [Answer] Please see the answers above. * Section 4 o "In IP, the MA can be per IP Subnet ..." As there's no definition of MA= in IP, is this the definition or one of examples. Can MA in IP network be = other than per IP Subnet? [Answer] It is ".. can be", so it meant to be an example and other possibil= ities are not ruled out and model does not assume any such limitation. o "Under each MA, there can be two or more MEPs (Maintenance End Points)"= Firstly, since you adopt MA-centric terminology, MEP stands for Maintenanc= e Association End Point. Secondly, in some OAM models Down and Up MEP being= distinguished. Would your model consider that? As there's no definition of= MEP for several networks you've listed, e.g. IP, how the YANG model will a= bstract something that is not defined? And thirdly, how and where MIPs are = located in IP OAM? [Answer] Yes model accept both UP/Down. One cannot say for IP there is no MEP. MEP is a functional abstraction of a= test point that generate and respond to OAM messages. In that regard IP de= vices today have an implicit MEP at the CPU. The model allow to provide mor= e semantics to the MEP and allow to create UP/Down per interface or other s= cope, hence providing more granularity in fault isolation/verification and = monitoring. Thank you for your consideration of my notes and looking forward to the int= eresting discussion. Thank you for spending time to review and comment. We are updating the next= version with comments received so far and specifically during IETF in Cana= da. We are more than happy enhance where applicable or need more clarity. Regards, Greg --_000_FBEA3E19AA24F847BA3AE74E2FE193562EF118C6xmbrcdx08ciscoc_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Greg=

 

Before answering the s= pecific questions below,  would like explain few aspects related to th= e extended CFM model used here. CFM  originally was designed exclusive= ly for Ethernet. As part of the TRILL OAM work we decoupled CFM model from Ethernet based addressing and made it addressi= ng independent. That is the CFM model that is referred here.

 

CFM defines a complete= fault model that include fault domains, Test point, Layering etc. Strict d= efinition of such is needed to develop a complete OAM solution regardless o= f the underline technology. CFM does a fantastic job in accomplishing that and AFIK there is no other model. We= are leveraging that model.

 

The word generic OAM i= s utilized here to indicate that the model can be applied regardless of the= underlying technology.

 

YANG model is not a on= e-one copy of CFM YANG defined in MEF. Rather it is defined with address in= dependent and extensibility in mind.

 

With the above in mind= , specific answers in-line:

 

From: L2vpn [m= ailto:l2vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Gregory Mirsky
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:15 PM
To: 'draft-tissa-netmod-oam@tools.ietf.org'
Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org; mpls@ietf.org; spring@ietf.org; time@ietf.org; '= netmod@ietf.org'; nvo3@ietf.org; rtg-bfd@ietf.org
Subject: draft-tissa-netmod-oam

 

Dear Authors, et.al,

please kindly consider my comments and questions to = this document:

·         Introduction

o    “… it is a reasonable choi= ce to develop the unified OAM framework based on those (CFM) concepts.̶= 1; I agree that for packet switching connection-oriented networks that are = based on G.800 architecture CFM, but more so Y.1731, provides shared concepts. I think that the same cannot be said for connectionless p= acket switching networks. Thus extending CFM model onto arbitrary networks = without consideration whether these are connection-oriented or connectionle= ss is very questionable approach, IMO;

 

 

[Answer] As stated abo= ve it is the OAM Model that is leveraged here. Regardless of connection ori= ented or not the model on Fault domains, Test points etc is valid.

 

In theory connection o= riented can be broken in to connection establishment and data forwarding. W= ith that in mind, one can define Fault domain and test points. Followed by = definition of the Fault identifications tools accordingly.

 

Do you have a preferre= d OAM tool  for fault verification/isolation and loss and performance = monitoring for connection oriented connectuons ?. If so would like to revie= w and map to the model.

 

 

o   “…CFM, it is a reasonable choice= to develop the unified OAM framework based on those concepts” IP OAM= is not based on Ethernet Service OAM model or principles but, IMO, OAM of = overlay networks more closer resemble IP OAM as these networks are connectionless in their architecture;

 

[Answer]  Please = see the answer above and extended CFM model. It is the model that is presen= ted here, regardless of the connectioness,  OAM tools need fault domai= ns and fault boundaries. Addidtionally as stated in the explanation above, there is nothing Ethernet in CFM, once the addre= ssing is decoupled.

 

o   “The YANG model presented in this docu= ment is the base model and supports IP Ping and Traceroute.” If only = these and similar OAM tools, e.g. LSP ping, Loopback/Linktrace, are in scop= e of the document, then, I believe, the title may say something like “YANG model of on-demand OAM tool to detect a= nd localize Loss of Continuity defect”. Referring to ping/traceroute = as “generic OAM” comes as stretch too far;

 

[Answer] I think there= is a miss understanding this model is not limited to Ping and Trace route.= Ping and traceroute are only examples to get the work stared and discussio= n going. As we go along other tools will be mapped to the model.

o    “…initiate a performance m= onitoring session can do so in the same manner regardless of the underlying= protocol or technology” I’d point to work of LMAP WG on inform= ational model of performance measurements in large-scale access networks, work of ITU-T’s SG15, MEF. Perhaps sentence can be stopped= after “… or a Traceroute”.

[Answer] I did not ful= ly understand your point.

 

o   “In this document we define the YANG m= odel for Generic OAM” Can you provide definition or reference to the = definition of the “Generic OAM”? It is challenging to validate = informational model of something that not been sufficiently defined.

 

[Answer]  As expl= ained earlier terminology generic OAM is used to indicate that the presente= d OAM model can be applied independent of the underlying technology. In sec= tion 1, we have stated the following: “..In this document, we take the [8021Q] CFM model and extend it to a technology= independent framework and build the corresponding YANG model accordingly. = The YANG model presented in this document is the base model and supports IP= Ping and Traceroute. The generic OAM YANG model is designed such that it can be extended to cover various t= echnologies. Technology dependent nodes and RPC commands are defined in tec= hnology specific YANG models, which use and extend the base model defined h= ere. …. “

 

 

·         Section 3

o   “This allows users to traverse between= OAM of different technologies at ease through a uniform API set.” Us= ually relationships between OAM layers referred and viewed as OAM interwork= ing. There are several examples of IETF addressing aspects of OAM interworking. I think that interworking includes not only s= cenarios of nested OAM layers but peering layers and thus is broader than i= ntroduced in the document “nested OAM”.

[Answer]  Can you= please provide some example here, I am not quite clear.<= /p>

 

Guessing from the word= peering, if we are referring to cascaded sections of different technologie= s such as IP Cloud, MPLS cloud and another IP cloud. Then the model present= ed here is the answer. You can have an end end OAM session at a higher MD-Level. Each of the clouds below can = have separate OAM at a lower MD-Level. These can be utilized for fault isol= ation.

 

o   Figure 1 depicts OAM of both connection-orie= nted and connectionless networks. What you see common, generic in respectiv= e OAM of these networks?

 

[Answer] Please see th= e answers above.

 

·         Section 4

o   “In IP, the MA can be per IP Subnet &#= 8230;” As there’s no definition of MA in IP, is this the defini= tion or one of examples. Can MA in IP network be other than per IP Subnet?<= o:p>

[Answer] It is “= .. can be”, so it meant to be an example and other possibilities are = not ruled out and model does not assume any such limitation.

 

o   “Under each MA, there can be two or mo= re MEPs (Maintenance End Points)” Firstly, since you adopt MA-centric= terminology, MEP stands for Maintenance Association End Point. Secondly, i= n some OAM models Down and Up MEP being distinguished. Would your model consider that? As there’s no definition of MEP for = several networks you’ve listed, e.g. IP, how the YANG model will abst= ract something that is not defined? And thirdly, how and where MIPs are loc= ated in IP OAM?

 

[Answer] Yes model acc= ept both UP/Down.

 

One cannot say for IP = there is no MEP. MEP is a functional abstraction of a test point that gener= ate and respond to OAM messages. In that regard IP devices today have an im= plicit MEP at the CPU. The model allow to provide more semantics to the MEP and allow to create UP/Down per inter= face or other scope, hence providing more granularity in fault isolation/ve= rification and monitoring.

 

Thank you for your consideration of my notes and loo= king forward to the interesting discussion.

 

Thank you for spending= time to review and comment. We are updating the next version with comments= received so far and specifically during IETF in Canada. We are more than h= appy enhance where applicable or need more clarity.

 

Regards,

    =     Greg

--_000_FBEA3E19AA24F847BA3AE74E2FE193562EF118C6xmbrcdx08ciscoc_-- From nobody Sat Aug 30 04:43:57 2014 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l2vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 57B8A1A89CB for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2014 04:33:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -101.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-101.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id R5zSGrlaHYnD for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2014 04:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (asmtp4.iomartmail.com [62.128.201.175]) (using TLSv1 with cipher DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 649731A89CA for ; Sat, 30 Aug 2014 04:33:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from asmtp4.iomartmail.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s7UBX0kH032423; Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:33:00 +0100 Received: from 950129200 ([149.254.186.28]) (authenticated bits=0) by asmtp4.iomartmail.com (8.13.8/8.13.8) with ESMTP id s7UBWuEQ032397 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=NO); Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:32:57 +0100 From: "Adrian Farrel" To: , , , , References: <20140827175326.16957.8212.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> In-Reply-To: <20140827175326.16957.8212.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Subject: RE: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-07 Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 12:32:56 +0100 Message-ID: <008d01cfc446$27c0b810$77422830$@olddog.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 14.0 Thread-Index: AQHubsssqjqui5wiHQwOTWeTcTPAk5urqjew Content-Language: en-gb X-TM-AS-MML: disable X-TM-AS-Product-Ver: IMSS-7.1.0.1576-7.5.0.1018-20916.006 X-TM-AS-Result: No--9.713-10.0-31-10 X-imss-scan-details: No--9.713-10.0-31-10 X-TMASE-MatchedRID: DESagSzwLRMtjw5zGtj91AhWgIsZuXlPcHdSqDyzIhTFJnEpmt9OE+pU Olu1Vn8QKzkurtOr5+qNbWLcD74x2ZShxRaS8Dn1ACs2C3nGlBheyAynqQ0GCsu4R0wGfYgMfgz ZAgJekeO4G/8PwEHazfBJ3OU8aKAxfTkLb0WYa8CU7+YDSFPeDQJsUwU2UTnQ0mAM2eipqlp/9t MKhlGm0k1i8No7236cXEGAbuaD8OUgIlyOJob3kvVFR4sC8dPymru3TC/mLU61eX0jEQ9c6sG7H RHtDQUnGfx7bMMvmMhXJ4hYFl91+4cfs847XUwnnVTWWiNp+v99LQinZ4QefNZE3xJMmmXc+gtH j7OwNO3UxgjQabZ2Lvg1kTQMVt4YOL8E/NAqowbi26Z3m8mfyPOqDwIua6gAVlxr1FJij9s= Archived-At: http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l2vpn/Fz3yZJZpR3nWML1qyVCS9zVUhbY X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 04:43:56 -0700 Cc: l2vpn@ietf.org, giheron@cisco.com, dlang@cisco.com, akatlas@gmail.com X-BeenThere: l2vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: adrian@olddog.co.uk List-Id: Layer 2 Virtual Private Networks List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 30 Aug 2014 11:33:29 -0000 Hello working group, This disclosure might be considered to have arrived late in the cycle = since the I-D completed WG last call on 23rd May 2014. There is at least come visible overlap with = http://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/1910/ but I think there is also new IPR = covered by this new disclosure. We are, of course, always grateful to see IPR disclosures so that = implementers know where they stand in advance of implementation, but it = is worth noting that on or before 30th of May all of the authors = explicitly declared that they knew of no undisclosed IPR, so if anyone = has anything they want to say by way of explanation, now would be a good = time. I have neither the time nor the Internet access at the moment to = research who is listed as inventors and who worked on this I-D, but = since the I-D is still waiting for an update after AD review (42 days!) = this affords the WG some time to look at the IPR and consider whether it = changes the way the WG wants to proceed. Thanks, Adrian > -----Original Message----- > From: IETF Secretariat [mailto:ietf-ipr@ietf.org] > Sent: 27 August 2014 18:53 > To: raggarwa_1@yahoo.com; sajassi@cisco.com; aisaac71@bloomberg.net; > uttaro@att.com; nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com > Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk; akatlas@gmail.com; giheron@cisco.com; > nabil.n.bitar@verizon.com; l2vpn@ietf.org; ipr-announce@ietf.org > Subject: IPR Disclosure: Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to = draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn- > 07 >=20 >=20 > Dear Rahul Aggarwal, Ali Sajassi, Aldrin Isaac, Jim Uttaro, Dr. Nabil = N. Bitar: >=20 > An IPR disclosure that pertains to your Internet-Draft entitled "BGP = MPLS Based > Ethernet VPN" (draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn) was submitted to the IETF = Secretariat on > 2014-08-27 and has been posted on the "IETF Page of Intellectual = Property Rights > Disclosures" (https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/2420/). The title of = the IPR > disclosure is "Cisco's Statement of IPR Related to = draft-ietf-l2vpn-evpn-07.""); >=20 > The IETF Secretariat