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From: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>
To: "'Qin Wu'" <bill.wu@huawei.com>, <l3sm@ietf.org>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA852A9724@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <015f01d13dfc$925ce730$b716b590$@kddi.com>
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Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.

*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?

*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".

*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
_______________________________________________
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Date: Tue, 5 Jan 2016 14:13:02 +0900
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
I-D-Announce mailing list
I-D-Announce@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/i-d-announce
Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
_______________________________________________
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https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/l3sm

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From nobody Mon Jan  4 21:23:33 2016
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Dear All,

I would like to ask you if a notification support is necessary on the model.
I don't want to stick to this at this phase, but there are some use cases.

Operators must sometimes notify various information to customers under each SLA with them.
-maintenance schedule (planned, in operation)
-proactive report when a failure occurred(, even if the customer is not aware)

YANG1.1 will allow notifications to be tied to data nodes.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-netmod-rfc6020bis-09#section-7.16

https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/35eO1KXYYBEhQ5TXI0ijWe5Nqj4
--
*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?


ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}
--

-- 
Kenichi Ogaki
KDDI Corp. | IP Network Dept.
+81-(0)80-5945-9138 | www.kddi.com




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Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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I-D-Announce@ietf.org
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Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Stephane,

If a simple multihomed site case is, I agree.
But, as the diagram in section 5.2.2, a site connects to multiple VPNs =
and each vpn policy is controlled per connection. The current model =
cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection.

The current model cannot realize the case described in the following =
sentence, for example.
=20
>   Consider a site#1 in VPN3 that must communicate only in VPN3, in =
this
>   case, the vpn-policy will be similar to Site#1 of VPN1.  The VRF on
>   PE5 for VPN3 will be so provisioned by the management system using
>   RT3 value as import and export value.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Kenichi,

IMO, for a multihomed site, the VPN policy will always be the same on =
each network connection  the site is using. Do you see a reason why it =
could be different ?


Brgds,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:48
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
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From nobody Mon Jan 11 18:49:00 2016
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>, "stephane.litkowski@orange.com" <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, "l3sm@ietf.org" <l3sm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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From: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>
To: "'Qin Wu'" <bill.wu@huawei.com>, <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, <l3sm@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Qin,

>If there is a need, I am wondering whether we can use route filter to =
do this job.
>
>Suppose a specific LAN LAN1 of site 2 must communicate with VPN2, LAN1 =
of site2 corresponds to site-network-access1, Then we can use filter >to =
represent LAN1 of site 2 and map LAN1 to specific site network access, =
can we?

Although I thought the same idea at first, it seems not good idea. In =
this case, customer must register all the lan addresses to which VPN =
they are advertised. It's consuming and causes misconfiguration.
When our customer uses bgp as the routing protocol, they don't want to =
write each lan address like static routing.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 11:49 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; stephane.litkowski@orange.com; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Stephane and Kenici:
In multihomed site case, there are multiple PEs and each PE is =
corresponding to one site-network-access.

Talking about the case in diagram of section 5.2.2, the vpn policy in =
the current model support attaching a site to one or multiple VPN, =
distribute route across VPNs, however in case of multiple network =
accesses within one site, Do we need to attach each network access to =
different VPNs? Do we need to distribute route to specific network =
access or subnet within a VPN?
If there is a need, I am wondering whether we can use route filter to do =
this job.

Suppose a specific LAN LAN1 of site 2 must communicate with VPN2, LAN1 =
of site2 corresponds to site-network-access1, Then we can use filter to =
represent LAN1 of site 2 and map LAN1 to specific site network access, =
can we?

Stephane, please correct me if I am wrong.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA=B1=ED =
Ogaki, Kenichi
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2016=C4=EA1=D4=C212=C8=D5 9:29
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

If a simple multihomed site case is, I agree.
But, as the diagram in section 5.2.2, a site connects to multiple VPNs =
and each vpn policy is controlled per connection. The current model =
cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection.

The current model cannot realize the case described in the following =
sentence, for example.
=20
>   Consider a site#1 in VPN3 that must communicate only in VPN3, in =
this
>   case, the vpn-policy will be similar to Site#1 of VPN1.  The VRF on
>   PE5 for VPN3 will be so provisioned by the management system using
>   RT3 value as import and export value.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Kenichi,

IMO, for a multihomed site, the VPN policy will always be the same on =
each network connection  the site is using. Do you see a reason why it =
could be different ?


Brgds,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:48
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Stephane,

Could you model the site#1 in the diagram, including all the VPNs and =
connections?
How can we make VPN3_Site1 only talk to VPN3?

<sites>
  <site-id>Site#1</site-id>
  <site-network-accesses>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN1_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE1 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN2_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE3 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN3_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE5 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
  </site-network-accesses>
  <vpn-policy>
    <entries>
      <id>1</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>2</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
        <site-role>hub-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>3</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
  </vpn-policy>
</sites>

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:08 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

There should be something I'm missing here ...

First, 5.2.2 text was not reviewed after creating the hierarchy between =
sites and accesses. So may be there is something to fix.

But reading the text again, I think this is still applicable.
In the diagram, a site connects to multiple VPNs but VPN policy is not =
controlled per connection from a modeling point of view. It is =
controlled per site. The diagram has only single homed site so may be =
the confusion comes from here.
Yes the model cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection, but IMO, =
this is not desirable.

I don't see why the model cannot achieve the paragraph you pointed.

<sites>
	<site-id>Site#3</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
</sites>

The second part of the paragraph you mentioned talks about the device =
configuration, not the modeling part. So the model will allow PE5 to be =
configured with the VPN policy (import/export RT3).
May be there is also a confusion there introduced by the text.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 02:29
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

If a simple multihomed site case is, I agree.
But, as the diagram in section 5.2.2, a site connects to multiple VPNs =
and each vpn policy is controlled per connection. The current model =
cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection.

The current model cannot realize the case described in the following =
sentence, for example.
=20
>   Consider a site#1 in VPN3 that must communicate only in VPN3, in =
this
>   case, the vpn-policy will be similar to Site#1 of VPN1.  The VRF on
>   PE5 for VPN3 will be so provisioned by the management system using
>   RT3 value as import and export value.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Kenichi,

IMO, for a multihomed site, the VPN policy will always be the same on =
each network connection  the site is using. Do you see a reason why it =
could be different ?


Brgds,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:48
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
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To: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>, "l3sm@ietf.org" <l3sm@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/hFGMBO9UVPXPOdBOReS07_Y9Vso>
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Stephane,

>As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site =
with one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2.

We have many use cases.
When a site is a multi tenant one, each tenant basically connects each =
different vpn.
In cases that the site is:=20
-a DC
-a large office like HQ. Each administrative section/department =
sometimes connects each different vpn.
-a site used by a second provider.

>If multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN =
policy to express it.

As I sent to Qin in the following email, In the above cases, to use LAN =
is not good idea. When a customer uses a dynamic routing protocol, bgp =
or ospf, they don't write lan-prefixes and don't want to write each =
lan-prefixes one by one. It obviously kills the merit to use a dynamic =
routing protocol.
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/5mSlmD1QehjPz-HZIW12pzxgFao

Can we just duplicate vpn-policy under site-network-access?
Or we can use choice statement if any inconsistency occurs.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:36 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

I think there is a misunderstanding in the naming used in the diagram.

VPN1_site1 and VPN2_site2 are not referring to the same customer site. =
VPN_site1 means site number#1 in VPN1. And VPN2_site1 means site =
number#1 in VPN2, but these are not the same customer site.
I can change the naming to ensure better reading and prevent such =
misunderstanding.=20


As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site with =
one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2. If =
multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN policy =
to express it.

Best Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 15:33
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Could you model the site#1 in the diagram, including all the VPNs and =
connections?
How can we make VPN3_Site1 only talk to VPN3?

<sites>
  <site-id>Site#1</site-id>
  <site-network-accesses>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN1_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE1 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN2_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE3 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN3_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE5 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
  </site-network-accesses>
  <vpn-policy>
    <entries>
      <id>1</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>2</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
        <site-role>hub-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>3</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
  </vpn-policy>
</sites>

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:08 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

There should be something I'm missing here ...

First, 5.2.2 text was not reviewed after creating the hierarchy between =
sites and accesses. So may be there is something to fix.

But reading the text again, I think this is still applicable.
In the diagram, a site connects to multiple VPNs but VPN policy is not =
controlled per connection from a modeling point of view. It is =
controlled per site. The diagram has only single homed site so may be =
the confusion comes from here.
Yes the model cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection, but IMO, =
this is not desirable.

I don't see why the model cannot achieve the paragraph you pointed.

<sites>
	<site-id>Site#3</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
</sites>

The second part of the paragraph you mentioned talks about the device =
configuration, not the modeling part. So the model will allow PE5 to be =
configured with the VPN policy (import/export RT3).
May be there is also a confusion there introduced by the text.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 02:29
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

If a simple multihomed site case is, I agree.
But, as the diagram in section 5.2.2, a site connects to multiple VPNs =
and each vpn policy is controlled per connection. The current model =
cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection.

The current model cannot realize the case described in the following =
sentence, for example.
=20
>   Consider a site#1 in VPN3 that must communicate only in VPN3, in =
this
>   case, the vpn-policy will be similar to Site#1 of VPN1.  The VRF on
>   PE5 for VPN3 will be so provisioned by the management system using
>   RT3 value as import and export value.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Kenichi,

IMO, for a multihomed site, the VPN policy will always be the same on =
each network connection  the site is using. Do you see a reason why it =
could be different ?


Brgds,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:48
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/ietf/1shadow-sites.txt
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To: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>, "l3sm@ietf.org" <l3sm@ietf.org>
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Hi Stephane,

Site means site. IMO, the location node in the current model also =
implies that a site is a physical customer site.

This must depend how each operator uses site-id (mapping to their own =
existing site id).
Since this must affect the other existing system's modelling, especially =
to billing mechanism in BSS, this must be carefully dealt with and must =
leave some options.=20

>- for the multiVPN case, you have no choice, you need to bind LANs to =
VPNs, that's why you need to put LANs in the VPN policy and attach them=20
>to a VPN. There is no other possibility, as the customer has to express =
what part of the site belongs to what VPN.

I can't agree this. This means that a customer cannot use any dynamic =
routing protocol in this case. Why a real service is restricted by a =
service model definition?

Although I don't think a smart idea, if we can put a lan-tag under bgp =
or ospf, we can differentiate VPN with LAN as same as static routing in =
the current model.=20

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 8:41 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

One addition, from a service point of view, if we want to model the =
hierarchy site vs subsite, we can add a subsite hierarchy under site to =
mark the relationship, this will complexify a bit the model. But the =
site-network-access is really the network attachment and I do not want =
to use it to express subsites. As mentioned in the previous email, =
subsite can already be modeled as a separated site : only relationship =
is missing.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 02:20
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

>As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site =
with one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2.

We have many use cases.
When a site is a multi tenant one, each tenant basically connects each =
different vpn.
In cases that the site is:=20
-a DC
-a large office like HQ. Each administrative section/department =
sometimes connects each different vpn.
-a site used by a second provider.

>If multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN =
policy to express it.

As I sent to Qin in the following email, In the above cases, to use LAN =
is not good idea. When a customer uses a dynamic routing protocol, bgp =
or ospf, they don't write lan-prefixes and don't want to write each =
lan-prefixes one by one. It obviously kills the merit to use a dynamic =
routing protocol.
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/5mSlmD1QehjPz-HZIW12pzxgFao

Can we just duplicate vpn-policy under site-network-access?
Or we can use choice statement if any inconsistency occurs.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:36 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

I think there is a misunderstanding in the naming used in the diagram.

VPN1_site1 and VPN2_site2 are not referring to the same customer site. =
VPN_site1 means site number#1 in VPN1. And VPN2_site1 means site =
number#1 in VPN2, but these are not the same customer site.
I can change the naming to ensure better reading and prevent such =
misunderstanding.=20


As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site with =
one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2. If =
multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN policy =
to express it.

Best Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 15:33
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Could you model the site#1 in the diagram, including all the VPNs and =
connections?
How can we make VPN3_Site1 only talk to VPN3?

<sites>
  <site-id>Site#1</site-id>
  <site-network-accesses>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN1_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE1 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN2_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE3 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN3_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE5 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
  </site-network-accesses>
  <vpn-policy>
    <entries>
      <id>1</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>2</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
        <site-role>hub-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>3</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
  </vpn-policy>
</sites>

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:08 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

There should be something I'm missing here ...

First, 5.2.2 text was not reviewed after creating the hierarchy between =
sites and accesses. So may be there is something to fix.

But reading the text again, I think this is still applicable.
In the diagram, a site connects to multiple VPNs but VPN policy is not =
controlled per connection from a modeling point of view. It is =
controlled per site. The diagram has only single homed site so may be =
the confusion comes from here.
Yes the model cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection, but IMO, =
this is not desirable.

I don't see why the model cannot achieve the paragraph you pointed.

<sites>
	<site-id>Site#3</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
</sites>

The second part of the paragraph you mentioned talks about the device =
configuration, not the modeling part. So the model will allow PE5 to be =
configured with the VPN policy (import/export RT3).
May be there is also a confusion there introduced by the text.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 02:29
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

If a simple multihomed site case is, I agree.
But, as the diagram in section 5.2.2, a site connects to multiple VPNs =
and each vpn policy is controlled per connection. The current model =
cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection.

The current model cannot realize the case described in the following =
sentence, for example.
=20
>   Consider a site#1 in VPN3 that must communicate only in VPN3, in =
this
>   case, the vpn-policy will be similar to Site#1 of VPN1.  The VRF on
>   PE5 for VPN3 will be so provisioned by the management system using
>   RT3 value as import and export value.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Kenichi,

IMO, for a multihomed site, the VPN policy will always be the same on =
each network connection  the site is using. Do you see a reason why it =
could be different ?


Brgds,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:48
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

_______________________________________________
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Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
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To: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>, "l3sm@ietf.org" <l3sm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: "l3sm@ietf.org" <l3sm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: Modeling a site with multiple subsites
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Date: Fri, 15 Jan 2016 14:31:11 +0000
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Subject: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites
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[Creating another topic for better followup]

Today the model has the ability to create sites, a site can be multihomed t=
o the network thanks to the site-network-access sub-tree.

Now the question is how to we model such scenarios :


a)      "SUBVPN case" : Single "physical" access between SP and customer, b=
ut multiple sub-accesses on top (VLAN, PPP sessions, or whatever ...), each=
 one pointing to a specific VPN. It is expected for the customer to ensure =
flow separation (VRF lite, VLANs ...). It's typically a big company with a =
Hub site used where affiliates have dedicated resources in the Hub site, an=
d affiliates must not talk to each other or even share resources. Note that=
 I putted "physical" between quotes because it can be a nested logical acce=
sses ...




b)      "INTER-AS option A like " case : this is the back to back VRF case,=
 as previously single "physical" access and multiple logical accesses on to=
p each one pointing to a separate VPN. I putted interAS, but this can be "i=
ntra-AS" with iBGP back to back VRFs also (internal DC for example)



c)       What about option B ? Do we consider option B as a service ? I wou=
ld not be in favor of that. Option B setups are really particular in term o=
f design, security ...  So I would like to have option B out of scope.


Even if a) and b) are separated use cases from a service point of view, the=
se are similar in term of modeling.

Today we can model it has a collection of separated sites without any relat=
ionship between each other. The other point is that we cannot express any  =
property of the "physical" attachment but there may few (encryption ?). We =
can keep the model as it is with this limitation or we can create site and =
sub-site hierarchy which as I already said may complexify the reading and u=
sability (IMO).
It may look like this :


=B7         Sites

o   Site-only-parameters :

=A7  Location

=A7  Diversity

=A7  management

=A7  Security

o   Specific-parameters : <- to be used only if there is no subsite.

=A7  Vpn-policy

=A7  Services

=A7  Routing-protocols

=A7  Site-network-accesses

=B7         ....

o   Sub-sites : <- to be used in case of sub sites present

=A7  Specific-parameters :

=B7         Vpn-policy

=B7         Services

=B7         Routing-protocols

=B7         Site-network-accesses

o   ...

I'm also wondering if bearer parameters must also be taken out in this case=
 and putted in the site-only-parameters.
The hierarchy becomes really complex here and I would like to keep it as si=
mple as possible.


Would be good to have multiple feedbacks from the WG to see where the conse=
nsus is.


[Orange logo]<http://www.orange.com/>

Stephane Litkowski
Network Architect
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/OINIS/NET
Orange Expert Future Networks
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</head>
<body lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">[Creating another topic for better followup]<o:p></o=
:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Today the model has the ability to create sites, a s=
ite can be multihomed to the network thanks to the site-network-access sub-=
tree.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Now the question is how to we model such scenarios :=
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">a)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>&#8220;SUBVPN case&#8221; : Single &#8220;physical&=
#8221; access between SP and customer, but multiple sub-accesses on top (VL=
AN, PPP sessions, or whatever &#8230;), each one pointing to a specific VPN=
. It is expected for the customer to ensure flow separation (VRF
 lite, VLANs &#8230;). It&#8217;s typically a big company with a Hub site u=
sed where affiliates have dedicated resources in the Hub site, and affiliat=
es must not talk to each other or even share resources. Note that I putted =
&#8220;physical&#8221; between quotes because it can be
 a nested logical accesses &#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">b)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>&#8220;INTER-AS option A like &#8221; case : this i=
s the back to back VRF case, as previously single &#8220;physical&#8221; ac=
cess and multiple logical accesses on top each one pointing to a separate V=
PN. I putted interAS, but this can be &#8220;intra-AS&#8221; with iBGP
 back to back VRFs also (internal DC for example)<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l1 level=
1 lfo1"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">c)<span style=
=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;
</span></span><![endif]>What about option B ? Do we consider option B as a =
service ? I would not be in favor of that. Option B setups are really parti=
cular in term of design, security &#8230;&nbsp; So I would like to have opt=
ion B out of scope.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Even if a) and b) are separated use cases from a ser=
vice point of view, these are similar in term of modeling.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Today we can model it has a collection of separated =
sites without any relationship between each other. The other point is that =
we cannot express any &nbsp;property of the &#8220;physical&#8221; attachme=
nt but there may few (encryption ?). We can keep the
 model as it is with this limitation or we can create site and sub-site hie=
rarchy which as I already said may complexify the reading and usability (IM=
O).<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">It may look like this :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"text-indent:-.25in;mso-list:l0 level=
1 lfo2"><![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=
=3D"mso-list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quo=
t;">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Sites<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Site-only-parameters :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Location<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Diversity<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>management<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Security<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Specific-parameters : &lt;- to be used only =
if there is no subsite.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Vpn-policy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Services<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Routing-protocols<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Site-network-accesses<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&#8230;.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level2 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Sub-sites : &lt;- to be used in case of sub =
sites present<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:1.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level3 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Wingdings"><span style=3D"m=
so-list:Ignore">=A7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&=
nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Specific-parameters :<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Vpn-policy<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Services<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Routing-protocols<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.0in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level4 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:Symbol"><span style=3D"mso-=
list:Ignore">=B7<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Roman&quot;">&nbs=
p;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>Site-network-accesses<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoListParagraph" style=3D"margin-left:2.5in;text-indent:-.25in=
;mso-list:l0 level5 lfo2">
<![if !supportLists]><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Courier New&quot;"><s=
pan style=3D"mso-list:Ignore">o<span style=3D"font:7.0pt &quot;Times New Ro=
man&quot;">&nbsp;&nbsp;
</span></span></span><![endif]>&#8230;<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">I&#8217;m also wondering if bearer parameters must a=
lso be taken out in this case and putted in the site-only-parameters.
<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The hierarchy becomes really complex here and I woul=
d like to keep it as simple as possible.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Would be good to have multiple feedbacks from the WG=
 to see where the consensus is.<o:p></o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><a href=3D"http://www.orange.com/"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;;co=
lor:blue;text-decoration:none"><img border=3D"0" width=3D"40" height=3D"40"=
 id=3D"Picture_x0020_1" src=3D"cid:image001.gif@01D14FA9.5D377D40" alt=3D"O=
range logo"></span></a><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ti=
mes New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt"><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;">&nbsp;<=
o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Stephane Litkowski
</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roma=
n&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Network Architect
</span><span style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&qu=
ot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;=
sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Orange/SCE/EQUANT/OINIS/NET</span><span style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&qu=
ot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ar=
ial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Orange Expert
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">Future Networks</span><span lang=
=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&=
quot;serif&quot;"><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-fam=
ily:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">phone:
<a href=3D"https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=3Dhttp%3A%2F=
%2Fclicvoice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddef=
ault%26rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D&#43;33%202%2023%2028%2049%2083%20">
<span style=3D"color:black;text-decoration:none">&#43;33 2 23 28 49 83 </sp=
an></a></span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
</span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:10.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&=
quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:black">mobile:
<a href=3D"https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=3Dhttp%3A%2F=
%2Fclicvoice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddef=
ault%26rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D&#43;33%206%2037%2086%2097%2052%20">
<span style=3D"color:black;text-decoration:none">&#43;33 6 37 86 97 52 </sp=
an></a></span><span lang=3D"FR" style=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&quot;"><br>
<a href=3D"mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0.0pt;font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,&quot;sans-serif&quot;;color:#FF6600;te=
xt-decoration:none">stephane.litkowski@orange.com</span></a>
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"line-height:15.0pt"><span lang=3D"FR" style=
=3D"font-size:12.0pt;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,&quot;serif&qu=
ot;">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
</div>
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From: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>
To: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, <l3sm@ietf.org>
References: <B8F9A780D330094D99AF023C5877DABA852A9724@nkgeml513-mbx.china.huawei.com> <015f01d13dfc$925ce730$b716b590$@kddi.com> <007d01d14695$e7de9310$b79bb930$@kddi.com> <3603_1451920156_568A8B1C_3603_701_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF9216815E11@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <016901d14777$c0408830$40c19890$@kddi.com> <006201d14c55$2993fab0$7cbbf010$@kddi.com> <1999_1452523041_5693BE21_1999_114_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF92168371C7@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <00fc01d14cd8$ac7216a0$055643e0$@kddi.com> <3657_1452589685_5694C275_3657_16_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921683C0E2@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <007501d14d46$2a090a20$7e1b1e60$@kddi.com> <1706_1452760540_56975DDC_1706_13886_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921683EAEB@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <00bd01d14f32$e1097eb0$a31c7c10$@kddi.com> <7349_1452858032_5698DAB0_7349_249_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921683F21F@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.f tgroup> <000c01d14f98 $879c0f30$96d42d90$@kddi.com> <22092_1452866258_5698FAD2_22092_9182_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921683F283@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/OvrIC2kcFs6mEK90hDzGjcAPEsI>
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Stephane,

>Now talking about VPN policy, you need a way to identify from a =
modeling point of view, which part of the site is attached to which VPN.
>From a modeling perspective, how a customer can express a part of a =
site ? You definitely need to run in some policy details. Now we are =
supporting=20
>per prefix mapping (LAN config) for the VPN policy and also lan-tag =
which brings more "dynamicity".

The problem is here. There is no dynamicity in what you call subVPN =
case.
Customers really exist connecting to each different VPN per =
ip-connection by using bgp. They don't want to inform us of each lan =
prefixes when they change their internal topology. That's the dynamic =
routing merit.

All the best.
Kenichi


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:58 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

>>- for the multiVPN case, you have no choice, you need to bind LANs to=20
>>VPNs, that's why you need to put LANs in the VPN policy and attach =
them to a VPN. There is no other possibility, as the customer has to =
express what part of the site belongs to what VPN.

>I can't agree this. This means that a customer cannot use any dynamic =
routing protocol in this case. Why a real service is restricted by a =
service model definition?

>Although I don't think a smart idea, if we can put a lan-tag under bgp =
or ospf, we can differentiate VPN with LAN as same as static routing in =
the current model.

You are mixing routing protocol and VPN policy which are two different =
things.
You can use any dynamic routing protocol and as pointed, for routing you =
do not need to put LANs. Any address will be learned dynamically from =
the customer site.

Now talking about VPN policy, you need a way to identify from a modeling =
point of view, which part of the site is attached to which VPN.
>From a modeling perspective, how a customer can express a part of a site =
? You definitely need to run in some policy details. Now we are =
supporting per prefix mapping (LAN config) for the VPN policy and also =
lan-tag which brings more "dynamicity". So I do not really see how we =
can improve and it does not prevent any dynamicity or usage or dynamic =
routing protocols.



-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 14:28
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Site means site. IMO, the location node in the current model also =
implies that a site is a physical customer site.

This must depend how each operator uses site-id (mapping to their own =
existing site id).
Since this must affect the other existing system's modelling, especially =
to billing mechanism in BSS, this must be carefully dealt with and must =
leave some options.=20

>- for the multiVPN case, you have no choice, you need to bind LANs to=20
>VPNs, that's why you need to put LANs in the VPN policy and attach them =
to a VPN. There is no other possibility, as the customer has to express =
what part of the site belongs to what VPN.

I can't agree this. This means that a customer cannot use any dynamic =
routing protocol in this case. Why a real service is restricted by a =
service model definition?

Although I don't think a smart idea, if we can put a lan-tag under bgp =
or ospf, we can differentiate VPN with LAN as same as static routing in =
the current model.=20

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 8:41 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

One addition, from a service point of view, if we want to model the =
hierarchy site vs subsite, we can add a subsite hierarchy under site to =
mark the relationship, this will complexify a bit the model. But the =
site-network-access is really the network attachment and I do not want =
to use it to express subsites. As mentioned in the previous email, =
subsite can already be modeled as a separated site : only relationship =
is missing.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 02:20
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

>As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site =
with one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2.

We have many use cases.
When a site is a multi tenant one, each tenant basically connects each =
different vpn.
In cases that the site is:=20
-a DC
-a large office like HQ. Each administrative section/department =
sometimes connects each different vpn.
-a site used by a second provider.

>If multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN =
policy to express it.

As I sent to Qin in the following email, In the above cases, to use LAN =
is not good idea. When a customer uses a dynamic routing protocol, bgp =
or ospf, they don't write lan-prefixes and don't want to write each =
lan-prefixes one by one. It obviously kills the merit to use a dynamic =
routing protocol.
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/5mSlmD1QehjPz-HZIW12pzxgFao

Can we just duplicate vpn-policy under site-network-access?
Or we can use choice statement if any inconsistency occurs.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:36 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

I think there is a misunderstanding in the naming used in the diagram.

VPN1_site1 and VPN2_site2 are not referring to the same customer site. =
VPN_site1 means site number#1 in VPN1. And VPN2_site1 means site =
number#1 in VPN2, but these are not the same customer site.
I can change the naming to ensure better reading and prevent such =
misunderstanding.=20


As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site with =
one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2. If =
multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN policy =
to express it.

Best Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 15:33
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Could you model the site#1 in the diagram, including all the VPNs and =
connections?
How can we make VPN3_Site1 only talk to VPN3?

<sites>
  <site-id>Site#1</site-id>
  <site-network-accesses>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN1_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE1 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN2_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE3 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN3_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE5 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
  </site-network-accesses>
  <vpn-policy>
    <entries>
      <id>1</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>2</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
        <site-role>hub-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>3</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
  </vpn-policy>
</sites>

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:08 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

There should be something I'm missing here ...

First, 5.2.2 text was not reviewed after creating the hierarchy between =
sites and accesses. So may be there is something to fix.

But reading the text again, I think this is still applicable.
In the diagram, a site connects to multiple VPNs but VPN policy is not =
controlled per connection from a modeling point of view. It is =
controlled per site. The diagram has only single homed site so may be =
the confusion comes from here.
Yes the model cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection, but IMO, =
this is not desirable.

I don't see why the model cannot achieve the paragraph you pointed.

<sites>
	<site-id>Site#3</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
</sites>

The second part of the paragraph you mentioned talks about the device =
configuration, not the modeling part. So the model will allow PE5 to be =
configured with the VPN policy (import/export RT3).
May be there is also a confusion there introduced by the text.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 02:29
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

If a simple multihomed site case is, I agree.
But, as the diagram in section 5.2.2, a site connects to multiple VPNs =
and each vpn policy is controlled per connection. The current model =
cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection.

The current model cannot realize the case described in the following =
sentence, for example.
=20
>   Consider a site#1 in VPN3 that must communicate only in VPN3, in =
this
>   case, the vpn-policy will be similar to Site#1 of VPN1.  The VRF on
>   PE5 for VPN3 will be so provisioned by the management system using
>   RT3 value as import and export value.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Kenichi,

IMO, for a multihomed site, the VPN policy will always be the same on =
each network connection  the site is using. Do you see a reason why it =
could be different ?


Brgds,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:48
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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Internet-Draft directories: http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html or =
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From: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>
To: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, <l3sm@ietf.org>
References: <11137_1452868271_569902AF_11137_18933_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921683F2D0@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites
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Hi Stephane,

>Single "physical" access between SP and customer, but multiple =
sub-accesses on top (VLAN, PPP sessions, or whatever ...), each one =
pointing to a specific VPN.

As you wrote above in the scenario a) and b), vpn-policy only have to be =
controlled per logical access, equivalent to the site-network-access in =
the current model. To solve the issue as simple as possible, it's =
sufficient to duplicate vpn-policy under site-network-access.
In these cases, a completely different conceptual element, sub-sites, is =
not required. This must bring a complexity, and sometimes hard to be =
understood, depending on operator's usecase.=20
Although we shouldn't discuss the device modelling, the granularity of =
sub-sites corresponds to a VRF=92s one from the viewpoint of vpn-policy. =
In this case, nobody intuitively imagines (sub-)sites from VRF, because =
it's commonly in a single physical box.

FYI, our commercial service honestly has a similar element as sub-sites, =
corresponding to vlan, but we still allows multiple vpns and bgp peers, =
each different vpn access per peer, within a single vlan.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 11:31 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites

[Creating another topic for better followup]

=20

Today the model has the ability to create sites, a site can be =
multihomed to the network thanks to the site-network-access sub-tree.

=20

Now the question is how to we model such scenarios :

=20

a)      =93SUBVPN case=94 : Single =93physical=94 access between SP and =
customer, but multiple sub-accesses on top (VLAN, PPP sessions, or =
whatever =85), each one pointing to a specific VPN. It is expected for =
the customer to ensure flow separation (VRF lite, VLANs =85). It=92s =
typically a big company with a Hub site used where affiliates have =
dedicated resources in the Hub site, and affiliates must not talk to =
each other or even share resources. Note that I putted =93physical=94 =
between quotes because it can be a nested logical accesses =85

=20

=20

b)      =93INTER-AS option A like =94 case : this is the back to back =
VRF case, as previously single =93physical=94 access and multiple =
logical accesses on top each one pointing to a separate VPN. I putted =
interAS, but this can be =93intra-AS=94 with iBGP back to back VRFs also =
(internal DC for example)

=20

c)       What about option B ? Do we consider option B as a service ? I =
would not be in favor of that. Option B setups are really particular in =
term of design, security =85  So I would like to have option B out of =
scope.

=20

=20

Even if a) and b) are separated use cases from a service point of view, =
these are similar in term of modeling.

=20

Today we can model it has a collection of separated sites without any =
relationship between each other. The other point is that we cannot =
express any  property of the =93physical=94 attachment but there may few =
(encryption ?). We can keep the model as it is with this limitation or =
we can create site and sub-site hierarchy which as I already said may =
complexify the reading and usability (IMO).

It may look like this :

=20

=B7         Sites

o   Site-only-parameters :

=A7  Location

=A7  Diversity

=A7  management

=A7  Security

o   Specific-parameters : <- to be used only if there is no subsite.

=A7  Vpn-policy

=A7  Services

=A7  Routing-protocols

=A7  Site-network-accesses

=B7         =85.

o   Sub-sites : <- to be used in case of sub sites present

=A7  Specific-parameters :

=B7         Vpn-policy

=B7         Services

=B7         Routing-protocols

=B7         Site-network-accesses

o   =85

=20

I=92m also wondering if bearer parameters must also be taken out in this =
case and putted in the site-only-parameters.=20

The hierarchy becomes really complex here and I would like to keep it as =
simple as possible.

=20

=20

Would be good to have multiple feedbacks from the WG to see where the =
consensus is.

=20

=20

Orange logo <http://www.orange.com/>=20

=20

Stephane Litkowski=20
Network Architect=20
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/OINIS/NET

Orange Expert Future Networks

phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83 =
<https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fclicv=
oice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddefault%2=
6rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%202%2023%2028%2049%2083%20>=20
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<https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fclicv=
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stephane.litkowski@orange.com <mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com> =20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
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This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
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Thread-Topic: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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From: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>
To: "Ogaki, Kenichi" <ke-oogaki@kddi.com>, "l3sm@ietf.org" <l3sm@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites
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Hi,

We cannot use site-network-access which is used for multihoming only.
How to you differentiate multihoming from your subVPN case ? they are two d=
ifferent things.
So I'm completely against using site-network-accesses as a subVPN can be al=
so multihomed ...

> FYI, our commercial service honestly has a similar element as sub-sites, =
corresponding to vlan, but we still allows multiple vpns and bgp peers, eac=
h different vpn access per peer, within a single vlan.
Could you provide more technical detail so I will be able to understand wha=
t exactly you are trying to achieve ?

Best Regards,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]=20
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 01:55
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites

Hi Stephane,

>Single "physical" access between SP and customer, but multiple sub-accesse=
s on top (VLAN, PPP sessions, or whatever ...), each one pointing to a spec=
ific VPN.

As you wrote above in the scenario a) and b), vpn-policy only have to be co=
ntrolled per logical access, equivalent to the site-network-access in the c=
urrent model. To solve the issue as simple as possible, it's sufficient to =
duplicate vpn-policy under site-network-access.
In these cases, a completely different conceptual element, sub-sites, is no=
t required. This must bring a complexity, and sometimes hard to be understo=
od, depending on operator's usecase.=20
Although we shouldn't discuss the device modelling, the granularity of sub-=
sites corresponds to a VRF's one from the viewpoint of vpn-policy. In this =
case, nobody intuitively imagines (sub-)sites from VRF, because it's common=
ly in a single physical box.

FYI, our commercial service honestly has a similar element as sub-sites, co=
rresponding to vlan, but we still allows multiple vpns and bgp peers, each =
different vpn access per peer, within a single vlan.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of stephane.litkowski@o=
range.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 11:31 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites

[Creating another topic for better followup]

=20

Today the model has the ability to create sites, a site can be multihomed t=
o the network thanks to the site-network-access sub-tree.

=20

Now the question is how to we model such scenarios :

=20

a)      "SUBVPN case" : Single "physical" access between SP and customer, b=
ut multiple sub-accesses on top (VLAN, PPP sessions, or whatever .), each o=
ne pointing to a specific VPN. It is expected for the customer to ensure fl=
ow separation (VRF lite, VLANs .). It's typically a big company with a Hub =
site used where affiliates have dedicated resources in the Hub site, and af=
filiates must not talk to each other or even share resources. Note that I p=
utted "physical" between quotes because it can be a nested logical accesses=
 .

=20

=20

b)      "INTER-AS option A like " case : this is the back to back VRF case,=
 as previously single "physical" access and multiple logical accesses on to=
p each one pointing to a separate VPN. I putted interAS, but this can be "i=
ntra-AS" with iBGP back to back VRFs also (internal DC for example)

=20

c)       What about option B ? Do we consider option B as a service ? I wou=
ld not be in favor of that. Option B setups are really particular in term o=
f design, security .  So I would like to have option B out of scope.

=20

=20

Even if a) and b) are separated use cases from a service point of view, the=
se are similar in term of modeling.

=20

Today we can model it has a collection of separated sites without any relat=
ionship between each other. The other point is that we cannot express any  =
property of the "physical" attachment but there may few (encryption ?). We =
can keep the model as it is with this limitation or we can create site and =
sub-site hierarchy which as I already said may complexify the reading and u=
sability (IMO).

It may look like this :

=20

=B7         Sites

o   Site-only-parameters :

=A7  Location

=A7  Diversity

=A7  management

=A7  Security

o   Specific-parameters : <- to be used only if there is no subsite.

=A7  Vpn-policy

=A7  Services

=A7  Routing-protocols

=A7  Site-network-accesses

=B7         ..

o   Sub-sites : <- to be used in case of sub sites present

=A7  Specific-parameters :

=B7         Vpn-policy

=B7         Services

=B7         Routing-protocols

=B7         Site-network-accesses

o   .

=20

I'm also wondering if bearer parameters must also be taken out in this case=
 and putted in the site-only-parameters.=20

The hierarchy becomes really complex here and I would like to keep it as si=
mple as possible.

=20

=20

Would be good to have multiple feedbacks from the WG to see where the conse=
nsus is.

=20

=20

Orange logo <http://www.orange.com/>=20

=20

Stephane Litkowski=20
Network Architect=20
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/OINIS/NET

Orange Expert Future Networks

phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83 <https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?targ=
et=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fclicvoice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do=
%3Faction%3Ddefault%26rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%202%2023%2028%2049=
%2083%20>=20
mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52 <https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?tar=
get=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fclicvoice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.d=
o%3Faction%3Ddefault%26rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%206%2037%2086%209=
7%2052%20>=20
stephane.litkowski@orange.com <mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com>=20=20

=20

=20

___________________________________________________________________________=
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From nobody Mon Jan 18 14:07:28 2016
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Subject: [L3sm] Heads up on probable virtual interim
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Hi,

Just to give you as much warning as possible.

Qin and I are discussing a possible future virtual interim to close off the
remaining open issues.

Our target is Thursday 25th February at 14.00 Paris time.

Adrian



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References: <11137_1452868271_569902AF_11137_18933_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921683F2D0@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <009a01d1518a$dccd16e0$966744a0$@kddi.com> <28946_1453107612_569CA99C_28946_1310_1_9E32478DFA9976438E7A22F69B08FF921683F60F@OPEXCLILMA4.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>
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Subject: Re: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites
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Hi Stephane,

>We cannot use site-network-access which is used for multihoming only.

Why do we have to use site-network-access only for multihoming? This is =
intuitively mapped to a logical access as you wrote.


>How to you differentiate multihoming from your subVPN case? they are =
two different things.

As I wrote, we just have to *duplicate* vpn-policy under =
site-network-access. When an operator's use case requires multiVPN, then =
vpn-policy should be under sites as the current model does.
When the other operator requires subVPN, vpn-policy should just be under =
site-network-access. It's sufficient to use these two cases exclusively.


>Could you provide more technical detail so I will be able to understand =
what exactly you are trying to achieve ?

Our existing commercial service allows the *logically* following =
diagram.
PE1, PE2 and PE3 can be VRFs inside a single physical PE, or may be =
physically separate PEs. Same as CEs. L2SW can be QinQ sub-interfaces on =
a single physical PE depending on the above case.

Then, we may map each element like this.

sites: A customer premises connected via QinQ (stag 100)
sub-sites: A customer premises' layer 2 segment separated by .1Q (ctag =
10 or 20), a ctag segment can include multiple logical accesses with bgp =
peer per logical access. For example, PE1 has a bgp peer with CE1, and =
PE2 has a different bgp peer with CE2.

In this case, when VPN X only talks to LAN X, we need subVPN inside =
sub-sites. But, we can deal with a sub-sites as a sites for the =
simplicity to minimally extend the current model. Even so, we still need =
vpn-policy per site-network-access.

+-----------------------------+        +------------------------------+
|                             |        |                              |
|        /---\ ctag 10        |        |        ctag 10 /---\         |
| VPN A-+ PE1 +--------+      |        |      +--------+ CE1 +-LAN A  |
|        \---/         |      |        |      |         \---/         |
|                      |      |        |      |                       |
|        /---\ctag 10+-+----+ |stag 100| +----+-+ctag 10/---\         |
| VPN B-+ PE2 +------+ L2SW +-+--------+-+ L2SW +------+ CE2 +-LAN B  |
|        \---/       +-+----+ |        | +----+-+       \---/         |
|                      |      |        |      |                       |
|        /---\ctag 20  |      |        |      | ctag 20 /---\         |
| VPN C-+ PE3 +--------+      |        |      +--------+ CE3 +-LAN C  |
|        \---/                |        |                \---/         |
|                             |        |                              |
+-----------------------------+        +------------------------------+
         Central Office                        Customer Premises

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 6:00 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites

Hi,

We cannot use site-network-access which is used for multihoming only.
How to you differentiate multihoming from your subVPN case ? they are =
two different things.
So I'm completely against using site-network-accesses as a subVPN can be =
also multihomed ...

> FYI, our commercial service honestly has a similar element as =
sub-sites, corresponding to vlan, but we still allows multiple vpns and =
bgp peers, each different vpn access per peer, within a single vlan.
Could you provide more technical detail so I will be able to understand =
what exactly you are trying to achieve ?

Best Regards,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]=20
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 01:55
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites

Hi Stephane,

>Single "physical" access between SP and customer, but multiple =
sub-accesses on top (VLAN, PPP sessions, or whatever ...), each one =
pointing to a specific VPN.

As you wrote above in the scenario a) and b), vpn-policy only have to be =
controlled per logical access, equivalent to the site-network-access in =
the current model. To solve the issue as simple as possible, it's =
sufficient to duplicate vpn-policy under site-network-access.
In these cases, a completely different conceptual element, sub-sites, is =
not required. This must bring a complexity, and sometimes hard to be =
understood, depending on operator's usecase.=20
Although we shouldn't discuss the device modelling, the granularity of =
sub-sites corresponds to a VRF's one from the viewpoint of vpn-policy. =
In this case, nobody intuitively imagines (sub-)sites from VRF, because =
it's commonly in a single physical box.

FYI, our commercial service honestly has a similar element as sub-sites, =
corresponding to vlan, but we still allows multiple vpns and bgp peers, =
each different vpn access per peer, within a single vlan.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 11:31 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: [L3sm] Modeling a site with multiple subsites

[Creating another topic for better followup]

=20

Today the model has the ability to create sites, a site can be =
multihomed to the network thanks to the site-network-access sub-tree.

=20

Now the question is how to we model such scenarios :

=20

a)      "SUBVPN case" : Single "physical" access between SP and =
customer, but multiple sub-accesses on top (VLAN, PPP sessions, or =
whatever .), each one pointing to a specific VPN. It is expected for the =
customer to ensure flow separation (VRF lite, VLANs .). It's typically a =
big company with a Hub site used where affiliates have dedicated =
resources in the Hub site, and affiliates must not talk to each other or =
even share resources. Note that I putted "physical" between quotes =
because it can be a nested logical accesses .

=20

=20

b)      "INTER-AS option A like " case : this is the back to back VRF =
case, as previously single "physical" access and multiple logical =
accesses on top each one pointing to a separate VPN. I putted interAS, =
but this can be "intra-AS" with iBGP back to back VRFs also (internal DC =
for example)

=20

c)       What about option B ? Do we consider option B as a service ? I =
would not be in favor of that. Option B setups are really particular in =
term of design, security .  So I would like to have option B out of =
scope.

=20

=20

Even if a) and b) are separated use cases from a service point of view, =
these are similar in term of modeling.

=20

Today we can model it has a collection of separated sites without any =
relationship between each other. The other point is that we cannot =
express any  property of the "physical" attachment but there may few =
(encryption ?). We can keep the model as it is with this limitation or =
we can create site and sub-site hierarchy which as I already said may =
complexify the reading and usability (IMO).

It may look like this :

=20

=B7         Sites

o   Site-only-parameters :

=A7  Location

=A7  Diversity

=A7  management

=A7  Security

o   Specific-parameters : <- to be used only if there is no subsite.

=A7  Vpn-policy

=A7  Services

=A7  Routing-protocols

=A7  Site-network-accesses

=B7         ..

o   Sub-sites : <- to be used in case of sub sites present

=A7  Specific-parameters :

=B7         Vpn-policy

=B7         Services

=B7         Routing-protocols

=B7         Site-network-accesses

o   .

=20

I'm also wondering if bearer parameters must also be taken out in this =
case and putted in the site-only-parameters.=20

The hierarchy becomes really complex here and I would like to keep it as =
simple as possible.

=20

=20

Would be good to have multiple feedbacks from the WG to see where the =
consensus is.

=20

=20

Orange logo <http://www.orange.com/>=20

=20

Stephane Litkowski=20
Network Architect=20
Orange/SCE/EQUANT/OINIS/NET

Orange Expert Future Networks

phone: +33 2 23 28 49 83 =
<https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fclicv=
oice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddefault%2=
6rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%202%2023%2028%2049%2083%20>=20
mobile: +33 6 37 86 97 52 =
<https://monsi.sso.francetelecom.fr/index.asp?target=3Dhttp%3A%2F%2Fclicv=
oice.sso.francetelecom.fr%2FClicvoiceV2%2FToolBar.do%3Faction%3Ddefault%2=
6rootservice%3DSIGNATURE%26to%3D+33%206%2037%2086%2097%2052%20>=20
stephane.litkowski@orange.com <mailto:stephane.litkowski@orange.com> =20

=20

=20

_________________________________________________________________________=
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_________________________________________________________________________=
________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations =
confidentielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez =
recu ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages =
electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme =
ou falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged =
information that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and =
delete this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have =
been modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.

_______________________________________________
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To: <stephane.litkowski@orange.com>, <l3sm@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/Mst8CP6lBfii_3pt_CKIoDsj6x8>
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
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Hi Stephane,

>I think you are mixing subVPN and multiVPN modeling.

Yes, I firstly tried to realize both subVPN and multiVPN by minimally =
extending the current multiVPN model. But, this is an option and =
exercise.
If we just allow to set a lan-tag under each dynamic routing protocol, =
bgp, ospf and rip, we can semantically map each site-network-access to =
each VPN.
Logical-Access-1 only talks to VPN1 and Logical-Access-2 to VPN2 in the =
following model, for example.

<sites>
	<site-id>subVPN-site</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<filter>
				<lan-tag>100</lan-tag>
			</filter>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
		<entries>
			<id>2</id>
			<filter>
				<lan-tag>200</lan-tag>
			</filter>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
	<site-network-accesses>
                <site-network-access>
                       =
<site-network-access-id>Logical-Access-1</site-network-access-id>
	                <routing-protocols>
		                <routing-protocol>
			                <type>bgp</type>
			                <bgp>
				                ...
                                              <lan-tag>100</lan-tag> =
<!-- allow lan-tag under bgp -->
			                </bgp>		=09
		                </routing-protocol>
	                </routing-protocols>
                       ...
                </site-network-access>
                <site-network-access>
                       =
<site-network-access-id>Logical-Access-2</site-network-access-id>
	                <routing-protocols>
		                <routing-protocol>
			                <type>bgp</type>
			                <bgp>
				                ...
                                              <lan-tag>200</lan-tag>
			                </bgp>		=09
		                </routing-protocol>
	                </routing-protocols>
                       ...
                </site-network-access>
	...
	</site-network-accesses>
</sites>


All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 18, 2016 5:55 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

I think you are mixing subVPN and multiVPN modeling.

multiVPN is a single site and single routing (single logical access) =
where some LANs belongs to one or more VPNs, and some others to others =
VPNs. This can be modeled as follows :
<sites>
	<site-id>MultiVPN-site</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<filter>
				<lan-tag>100</lan-tag>
			</filter>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
		<entries>
			<id>2</id>
			<filter>
				<lan-tag>200</lan-tag>
			</filter>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
	<routing-protocols>
		<routing-protocol>
			<type>bgp</type>
			<bgp>
				...
			</bgp>		=09
		</routing-protocol>
	</routing-protocols>
	<site-network-accesses>
	...
	</site-network-accesses>
</sites>


"SubVPN" is a collection of sites sharing a common infrastructure =
"generally CE and physical/logical access" and generally CE is =
implementing VRF-lite to keep isolating the sub-sites between them.
This can be modeled today as a collection of sites (but with no =
relationship between each other). Each subVPN may also be using =
multiVPN.

<sites>
	<site-id>SubVPN_subsite1 </site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN5</vpn-id>
				<site-role>spoke-role</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
	<routing-protocols>
		<routing-protocol>
			<type>bgp</type>
			<bgp>
				...
			</bgp>		=09
		</routing-protocol>
	</routing-protocols>
	<site-network-accesses>
	...
	</site-network-accesses>
</sites>
<sites>
	<site-id>SubVPN_subsite2_as_multiVPN</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<filter>
				<lan-tag>100</lan-tag>
			</filter>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
		<entries>
			<id>2</id>
			<filter>
				<lan-tag>200</lan-tag>
			</filter>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
	<routing-protocols>
		<routing-protocol>
			<type>bgp</type>
			<bgp>
				...
			</bgp>		=09
		</routing-protocol>
	</routing-protocols>
	<site-network-accesses>
	...
	</site-network-accesses>
</sites>


=09
=09

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 15:29
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

>Now talking about VPN policy, you need a way to identify from a =
modeling point of view, which part of the site is attached to which VPN.
>From a modeling perspective, how a customer can express a part of a=20
>site ? You definitely need to run in some policy details. Now we are =
supporting per prefix mapping (LAN config) for the VPN policy and also =
lan-tag which brings more "dynamicity".

The problem is here. There is no dynamicity in what you call subVPN =
case.
Customers really exist connecting to each different VPN per =
ip-connection by using bgp. They don't want to inform us of each lan =
prefixes when they change their internal topology. That's the dynamic =
routing merit.

All the best.
Kenichi


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 10:58 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

>>- for the multiVPN case, you have no choice, you need to bind LANs to=20
>>VPNs, that's why you need to put LANs in the VPN policy and attach =
them to a VPN. There is no other possibility, as the customer has to =
express what part of the site belongs to what VPN.

>I can't agree this. This means that a customer cannot use any dynamic =
routing protocol in this case. Why a real service is restricted by a =
service model definition?

>Although I don't think a smart idea, if we can put a lan-tag under bgp =
or ospf, we can differentiate VPN with LAN as same as static routing in =
the current model.

You are mixing routing protocol and VPN policy which are two different =
things.
You can use any dynamic routing protocol and as pointed, for routing you =
do not need to put LANs. Any address will be learned dynamically from =
the customer site.

Now talking about VPN policy, you need a way to identify from a modeling =
point of view, which part of the site is attached to which VPN.
>From a modeling perspective, how a customer can express a part of a site =
? You definitely need to run in some policy details. Now we are =
supporting per prefix mapping (LAN config) for the VPN policy and also =
lan-tag which brings more "dynamicity". So I do not really see how we =
can improve and it does not prevent any dynamicity or usage or dynamic =
routing protocols.



-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 14:28
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Site means site. IMO, the location node in the current model also =
implies that a site is a physical customer site.

This must depend how each operator uses site-id (mapping to their own =
existing site id).
Since this must affect the other existing system's modelling, especially =
to billing mechanism in BSS, this must be carefully dealt with and must =
leave some options.=20

>- for the multiVPN case, you have no choice, you need to bind LANs to=20
>VPNs, that's why you need to put LANs in the VPN policy and attach them =
to a VPN. There is no other possibility, as the customer has to express =
what part of the site belongs to what VPN.

I can't agree this. This means that a customer cannot use any dynamic =
routing protocol in this case. Why a real service is restricted by a =
service model definition?

Although I don't think a smart idea, if we can put a lan-tag under bgp =
or ospf, we can differentiate VPN with LAN as same as static routing in =
the current model.=20

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 8:41 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

One addition, from a service point of view, if we want to model the =
hierarchy site vs subsite, we can add a subsite hierarchy under site to =
mark the relationship, this will complexify a bit the model. But the =
site-network-access is really the network attachment and I do not want =
to use it to express subsites. As mentioned in the previous email, =
subsite can already be modeled as a separated site : only relationship =
is missing.


-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 02:20
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

>As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site =
with one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2.

We have many use cases.
When a site is a multi tenant one, each tenant basically connects each =
different vpn.
In cases that the site is:=20
-a DC
-a large office like HQ. Each administrative section/department =
sometimes connects each different vpn.
-a site used by a second provider.

>If multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN =
policy to express it.

As I sent to Qin in the following email, In the above cases, to use LAN =
is not good idea. When a customer uses a dynamic routing protocol, bgp =
or ospf, they don't write lan-prefixes and don't want to write each =
lan-prefixes one by one. It obviously kills the merit to use a dynamic =
routing protocol.
https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/5mSlmD1QehjPz-HZIW12pzxgFao

Can we just duplicate vpn-policy under site-network-access?
Or we can use choice statement if any inconsistency occurs.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Thursday, January 14, 2016 5:36 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

I think there is a misunderstanding in the naming used in the diagram.

VPN1_site1 and VPN2_site2 are not referring to the same customer site. =
VPN_site1 means site number#1 in VPN1. And VPN2_site1 means site =
number#1 in VPN2, but these are not the same customer site.
I can change the naming to ensure better reading and prevent such =
misunderstanding.=20


As we discussed there is no real use case to have a multihomed site with =
one connection belonging to VPN1 and another connection to VPN2. If =
multiple VPNs are used by the site, LAN will be used in the VPN policy =
to express it.

Best Regards,

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 15:33
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Could you model the site#1 in the diagram, including all the VPNs and =
connections?
How can we make VPN3_Site1 only talk to VPN3?

<sites>
  <site-id>Site#1</site-id>
  <site-network-accesses>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN1_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE1 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN2_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE3 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
    <site-network-access>
      <site-network-access-id>VPN3_Site1</site-network-access-id>
      <!--ip-connection to PE5 --> =20
      ...
    </site-network-access>
  </site-network-accesses>
  <vpn-policy>
    <entries>
      <id>1</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN1</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>2</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN2</vpn-id>
        <site-role>hub-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
    <entries>
      <id>3</id>
      <vpn>
        <vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
        <site-role>any-to-any-role</site-role>
      </vpn>
    </entries>
  </vpn-policy>
</sites>

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 6:08 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

There should be something I'm missing here ...

First, 5.2.2 text was not reviewed after creating the hierarchy between =
sites and accesses. So may be there is something to fix.

But reading the text again, I think this is still applicable.
In the diagram, a site connects to multiple VPNs but VPN policy is not =
controlled per connection from a modeling point of view. It is =
controlled per site. The diagram has only single homed site so may be =
the confusion comes from here.
Yes the model cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection, but IMO, =
this is not desirable.

I don't see why the model cannot achieve the paragraph you pointed.

<sites>
	<site-id>Site#3</site-id>
	<vpn-policy>
		<entries>
			<id>1</id>
			<vpn>
				<vpn-id>VPN3</vpn-id>
				<site-role>any-to-any</site-role>
			</vpn>
		</entries>
	</vpn-policy>
</sites>

The second part of the paragraph you mentioned talks about the device =
configuration, not the modeling part. So the model will allow PE5 to be =
configured with the VPN policy (import/export RT3).
May be there is also a confusion there introduced by the text.




-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Tuesday, January 12, 2016 02:29
To: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

If a simple multihomed site case is, I agree.
But, as the diagram in section 5.2.2, a site connects to multiple VPNs =
and each vpn policy is controlled per connection. The current model =
cannot differentiate vpn policy per connection.

The current model cannot realize the case described in the following =
sentence, for example.
=20
>   Consider a site#1 in VPN3 that must communicate only in VPN3, in =
this
>   case, the vpn-policy will be similar to Site#1 of VPN1.  The VRF on
>   PE5 for VPN3 will be so provisioned by the management system using
>   RT3 value as import and export value.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 11:37 PM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Kenichi,

IMO, for a multihomed site, the VPN policy will always be the same on =
each network connection  the site is using. Do you see a reason why it =
could be different ?


Brgds,

Stephane


-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Monday, January 11, 2016 10:48
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane and All,

One more comment.

Leaving issue#10 and vpn-policy in vpn-svc discussion aside, the =
vpn-policy in the current model should be under site-network access?

According to section 5.2.2, a vpn-policy should be controlled per pair =
of a PE and a site, corresponding to site-network-access /ip-connection.
When we place the vpn-policy directly under "sites", how can we relate a =
vpn-policy to a specific PE.

Thanks,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 2:13 PM
To: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi Stephane,

Please see inline.

All the best,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of =
stephane.litkowski@orange.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 05, 2016 12:09 AM
To: Ogaki, Kenichi; 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi,

Best wishes for this new year.

Pls find inline comments.

-----Original Message-----
From: Ogaki, Kenichi [mailto:ke-oogaki@kddi.com]
Sent: Monday, January 04, 2016 03:16
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: LITKOWSKI Stephane SCE/OINIS; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: RE: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

Additional comments are here:

*svc-id
The type "svc-id" is used for lots of data node. Is this necessary?
When we say "vpn-id", this is obviously an id by its name, and the only =
thing to define is how we represent this, string, integer or =
something=A1=AD If the type "svc-id" defines the length of string or =
something constraint, it makes sense. =20
[SLI] svc-id just brings consistency on how we define all the =
identifiers in the model (we ensure easily that all are using the same =
encoding =3D> string)

[KO] I understand.

*routing-protocol
The current model allows multiple routing protocols for a =
site-network-access. It's technically possible, but is there any use =
case for l3vpn service?
#Is this only for dual-stack, one for IPv4 and the other for IPv6?
[SLI] It is really usual to have dynamic routing + static routing at the =
same time. (e.g. dynamic routing for customer LANs, + static routing for =
admin)

[KO] I understand.

*QoS classification
Since 5.2.6.1.1. says "The order of rule is defined by the "id" leaf.  =
The lowest "id" MUST be processed first.", we have to change the "id" =
value whenever we want to reorder the existing rules. But the "id" is =
key, and a key should not be changed in DB principle. Although it may be =
an implementation matter, can we just use "ordered-by user" statement =
for the list "rules"?
[SLI] Agree, I will add the ordered-by user. Do you see other lists that =
would require such user ordering ?

[KO] I can't find any other ordered list.

*std-qos-profile/custom-qos-profile
If "std-qos-profile and custom-qos-profile cannot be used at the same =
time." in 5.1.6.1.2, we can use a choice statement for std-qos-profile =
and custom-qos-profile.
[SLI] Agree, will fix it.


*traffic protection
Can we cover the function of "traffic-protection" by =
"site-network-access/availability"?
[SLI] Ack, I moved the traffic protection under availability.


*vpn-policy
For an readability of the model, the node name =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn" should be =
"vpn-policy/entries/id/vpn/vpn-id".
[SLI] Fixed.


*notification
How about defining notification node under vpn-svc and =
site-network-access?
We sometimes have to actively inform our customers of a failure or =
something.
What kind of the information depends on each operator, then anydata or =
anyxml suits this.

[SLI] Notification are normally not part of the tree, we can create rpcs =
or notifications if necessary to retrieve operational infos.
Could you raise a separate thread to discuss the need of notifications ?

[KO] I will raise a separate thread.

ex.)
container site-network-accesses {
    list site-network-access {
        key site-network-access-id;
        ...
        notification info {
            anydata data;
        }
        ...
}


-Editorials
Sec. 5.1.2.
2nd and 3rd configuration examples still use "name" and "id".

Sec. 5.2.
typo "ressources" in Location description.
Sec. 5.2.1.2
typo "ressources" in 2nd paragraph

Sec. 5.2.5.7.
In 2nd paragraph, AS number is defined in routing-protocol/bgp in the =
current model, and customer-specific-information is already deleted.
The configuration example should also include "autonomous-system".

Sec. 6.
The configuration example still use "name" and "id".

[SLI] Thanks for catching the errors, as the model evolved a lot, it s =
hard to keep all the example synchronized :)


Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Ogaki, Kenichi
Sent: Thursday, December 24, 2015 12:39 PM
To: 'Qin Wu'; l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Dear All,

>https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12

Two comments for the current routing-protocols:

1. Node name "cascaded-lan-prefixes" should be reworded, for example of =
"customer-lan-prefixes".
No longer only for *cascaded* lan.

2. Should we have a mean to retrieve the provider autonomous system =
number for bgp type?
ro node/ops state is enough.
In the case of customer managed CE, our customer must know what AS =
number the PE has.
#Usually, we let them know it outside the user interface.

Merry X'mas & Happy New Year,
Kenichi

-----Original Message-----
From: L3sm [mailto:l3sm-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Qin Wu
Sent: Wednesday, December 23, 2015 5:15 PM
To: l3sm@ietf.org
Cc: stephane.litkowski@orange.com; adrian@olddog.co.uk
Subject: Re: [L3sm] I-D Action: =
draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt

Hi, All:
As a follow-up to the discussion during the L3SM interim call we had in =
December 2015, We as chairs have filed two issue tickets in the issue =
tracker
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/12
https://trac.tools.ietf.org/wg/l3sm/trac/ticket/13

Authors have revised ID based on the discussion and agreed point during =
interim call.
Thanks Stephane to get this done and close most of open issues we had in =
the issue tracker except the following two issues:
1.Inventory ops state issue
2. VPN merging issue
The diff:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2
Please review the changes and let us know if there is anything missed or =
addition change that needs to be incorporated in.

-Qin
-----=D3=CA=BC=FE=D4=AD=BC=FE-----
=B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: I-D-Announce [mailto:i-d-announce-bounces@ietf.org] =
=B4=FA=B1=ED internet-drafts@ietf.org
=B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2015=C4=EA12=D4=C215=C8=D5 18:33
=CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: i-d-announce@ietf.org
=B3=AD=CB=CD: l3sm@ietf.org
=D6=F7=CC=E2: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts =
directories.
 This draft is a work item of the L3VPN Service Model  Working Group of =
the IETF.

        Title           : YANG Data Model for L3VPN service delivery
        Authors         : Stephane Litkowski
                          Rob Shakir
                          Luis Tomotaki
                          Kevin D'Souza
	Filename        : draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02.txt
	Pages           : 100
	Date            : 2015-12-15

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to deliver a
   Layer 3 Provider Provisioned VPN service.  The document is limited to
   the BGP PE-based VPNs as described in RFC4110 and RFC4364.  This
   model is intended to be instantiated at management system to deliver
   the overall service.  This model is not a configuration model to be
   used directly on network elements.  This model provides an abstracted
   view of the Layer 3 IPVPN service configuration components.  It will
   be up to a management system to take this as an input and use
   specific configurations models to configure the different network
   elements to deliver the service.  How configuration of network
   elements is done is out of scope of the document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model/

There's also a htmlized version available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-02

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3sm-l3vpn-service-model-0=
2


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of =
submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at =
tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Adrian Farrel, a Chair of the l3sm working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: L3VPN Service Model 
Area Name: Operations and Management Area
Session Requester: Adrian Farrel

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  1 Hour
Number of Attendees: 50
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority:  teas, lime,  bess,  i2nsf, supa, 
 Second Priority: rtgwg, idr, netconf, netmod, opsawg, rtgarea
 Third Priority: ccamp, sdnrg, i2rs, pce, mpls


Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


From nobody Tue Jan 19 14:35:24 2016
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From: "Adrian Farrel" <adrian@olddog.co.uk>
To: <l3sm@ietf.org>
References: <20160119223115.16513.45074.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>
In-Reply-To: <20160119223115.16513.45074.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 22:35:10 -0000
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Archived-At: <http://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/l3sm/_fOQYmpi1VKtOWynj0eN0g9cmTI>
Subject: Re: [L3sm] l3sm - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 95
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X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Jan 2016 22:35:22 -0000

All,

Qin and I have put in a request for a meeting in Buenos Aires, but it is =
far from certain that we will need it.

It is a lot easier to cancel a meeting than to ask for one at the last =
minute, so we will let this stand until closer to the time and then =
decide where we stand. it is possible that the interim meeting and some =
email exchanges will see us through.

Anyway, we have also asked for Meetecho support to enable remote =
participation if the meeting goes ahead.

Regards,
Adrian

> -----Original Message-----
> From: "IETF Meeting Session Request Tool"
> [mailto:session_request_developers@ietf.org]
> Sent: 19 January 2016 22:31
> To: session-request@ietf.org
> Cc: l3sm@ietf.org; bclaise@cisco.com; afarrel@juniper.net; =
l3sm-chairs@ietf.org
> Subject: l3sm - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 95
>=20
>=20
>=20
> A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Adrian =
Farrel, a Chair
> of the l3sm working group.
>=20
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------
> Working Group Name: L3VPN Service Model
> Area Name: Operations and Management Area
> Session Requester: Adrian Farrel
>=20
> Number of Sessions: 1
> Length of Session(s):  1 Hour
> Number of Attendees: 50
> Conflicts to Avoid:
>  First Priority:  teas, lime,  bess,  i2nsf, supa,
>  Second Priority: rtgwg, idr, netconf, netmod, opsawg, rtgarea
>  Third Priority: ccamp, sdnrg, i2rs, pce, mpls
>=20
>=20
> Special Requests:
>=20
> ---------------------------------------------------------

