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BY2PR05MB079.namprd05.prod.outlook.com ([169.254.8.16]) with mapi id 15.00.0810.005; Fri, 1 Nov 2013 14:10:26 +0000 From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" To: "wang.cui1@zte.com.cn" , "erosen@cisco.com" Subject: RE: Re: Global Table Multicast Thread-Topic: Re: Global Table Multicast Thread-Index: AQHO0MCUTNSfr0sao06EAsVxLEs5KpoPuQiAgAC5KcA= Date: Fri, 1 Nov 2013 14:10:25 +0000 Message-ID: <841e2028a3134acab3c9c42ce8a0bf83@BY2PR05MB079.namprd05.prod.outlook.com> References: <2187.1382622852@erosen-linux> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [66.129.241.10] x-forefront-prvs: 00179089FD Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_841e2028a3134acab3c9c42ce8a0bf83BY2PR05MB079namprd05pro_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Cc: "mboned@ietf.org" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: 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Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Linda,<= /p>

 <= /p>

Please see zzh> below.=

 <= /p>

From: wang.cui= 1@zte.com.cn [mailto:wang.cui1@zte.com.cn]
Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 10:52 PM
To: erosen@cisco.com
Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; mboned@ietf.org; Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang
Subject: =B4= =F0=B8=B4: Re: Global Table Multicast<= /p>

 



Hi=A3=AC<= /span>Eric=A3=AC

  Today is a specia= l day, so, first, Happy Halloween :)

  Then thanks for your reply. I still= have some questions seeing inline below. Would you please explain for me?

  Thanks:)

BRs,
Linda Wang

Eric Rosen <erosen@cisco.com> =D0=B4=D3=DA 2013-10-24 21:54:12:

> > If providers just want to enable Global Multicast Reachablity= only, they
> > just need enable MCAST-IPv6(define in
> > draft-wang-mboned-glo-ipv6-mcast-reachability) address family= only without
> > enable MCAST-VPN address family which may cause unnecessary r= oute
> > advertisements.
>
> I really don't understand this line of reasoning.
>
> Suppose a provider wants to use his backbone network to support bo= th VPN
> Multicast (MVPN) and and Global Table Multicast (GTM), and wants t= o use
> protocols and procedures based on RFC6514 for both.  Perhaps,= e.g., the
> provider is already supporting MVPN and now wants to add GTM suppo= rt, using,
> as much as possible, the same set of protocols and procedures.
//Linda:Suppose a provider = enables MCAST-VPN ability in his backbone network for
only support VPN Multicast,= except all MVPN I-PMSI tunnels are building for every VRF ,
every PE would additionally= built a default tunnel for GTM and all the procedures
using for building the GTM = tunnel are redundant.

Zzh> If the provider only support MVPN, why would every PE have to= build a default tunnel for GTM?

And on the other hand, a provider enables MCAST-= VPN ability in his backbone network
for only support GTM, excep= t GTM tunnels are building, every PE would additionally
built default tunnels for e= very VRF and all the procedures for building the MVPN I-PMSI
tunnels are redundant.So dr= aft-wang can avoid the unneccery tunnel building. Am I right?
If I missing anything, plea= se point out:) <= /span>

Zzh> If the provider only support GTM, why would every PE have to = build a default tunnel for every VRF?
 
>
> Following the procedures of draft-zzhang-l3vpn-mvpn-global-table-m= cast, the
> MVPN C-multicast and A-D routes use the same AFI/SAFI (MCAST-VPN) = as the GTM
> C-multicast and A-D routes.  Existing procedures and tools co= ntinue to
> apply.  If draft-wang is used, then the provider needs to use= two different
> AFI/SAFIs, one for MVPN and one for GTM.  What is the point o= f using the
> additional AFI/SAFI?  It's just a complication for no benefit= ; every
> additional AFI/SAFI brings some operational overhead. =
//Linda: Yes,from the persp= ective of coding, two different AFI/SAFIs lead to two
kinds of codec,but except c= odec, GTM can reuse many interaction procedures that
MVPN is using :)
Zzh> Use/no-use of the RD will also lead to d= ifferent coding. Since we have an option to make things (almost identical),= why not?
>
> If a provider only wants to use his backbone for GTM, the MCAST-VP= N SAFI is
> still fine.  I don't know why you think it causes unnecessary= route
> advertisement.  You just have to set the RD field in the NLRI= to zero, so
> that the NLRI identifies the global table rather than a VRF.<= br> //Linda: Sorry for misunderstanding there ar= e unnecessary route advertisements.
 Yes,you're right.Than= ks for pointing it out:)
> It isn't worth introducing a new SAFI just to shorten the NLRI by = a few
> octets.
>
> > 1.Without RD:
>
> > a. All the A-D route is more simpler in encoding.
>
> Setting the RD to zero is not much of a complication.  It's a= lot simpler
> than having a new SAFI.
//Linda=A3=BARD = 0:0 is reserved by GTM,which means VPN VRF can't use RD 0:0,right?

Zzh> So? RD 0:0 was not used before anyway.


> > 2.Without RT
>
> No, it's not possible to eliminate the RTs.  RTs are absolute= ly required on
> the C-multicast Join routes and the Leaf A-D routes.  These r= oute types are
> always "targeted" to a single upstream node, and that no= de is identified by
> the RT.  Not only is that important for constraining the dist= ribution of
> the routes, it is also needed so that the upstream node can tell t= hat it is
> the target of a particular C-multicast Join or Leaf A-D route.
//Linda: I think the upstre= am node is identified by the unicast route and the selected route policy,
 once the C-multicast = Join routes received by the upstream node,then RT decides which VRF import = the
 C-multicast routes.In= the context of GTM, there is no consideration which VRF import the c-mulit= cast
 routes but the global= muticast route table.So i doute where need RT in GTM ?  <= tt>

Zzh> The VRF import RT has two parts: global admin field and local= admin field. The global admin field constrains the distribution to only the upstream PE and the local admin field identifies the particula= r VRF. In draft-zzhang, the local admin field is set to 0 because as you sa= id there is only one global table; but we still need the global admin field= to constrain the distribution of the c-mcast route to only the upstream PE.

Jeffrey

>
> I also think it would be unwise to distribute the other route type= s without
> RTs, as that would eliminate the ability to constrain the distribu= tion of
> those routes.  It would also eliminate the ability to create = extranets that
> contain both VRFs and global tables.
>
> > We can remove VRF Route Import Extended Community
>
> No you can't, as that is needed, in general, to identify the "= ;Upstream PE"
> for a given multicast source or RP.  The MVPN procedures depe= nd on being
> able to identify the Upstream PE ("Upstream PBR" in the = draft-zzhang-...-01
> terminology).  Without the VRF Route Import Extended Communit= y, the MVPN/GTM
> procedures will only work within a single AS.
>
> >.Global multicast reachability is not going to aggregate,so we= can remove
> > the MPLS Label field in PMSI Tunnel Attribute
>
> The MPLS Label field in the PMSI Tunnel Attribute of a Leaf A-D ro= ute is
> needed to support Ingress Replication, so it cannot be eliminated.=
>
> Also, one may wish to aggregate GTM and MVPN traffic in the same t= unnel, in
> which case one would want to use the MPLS label field of the PMSI = Tunnel
> Attribute in an I/S-PMSI A-D route to distinguish the MVPN traffic= from the
> GTM traffic.
>
> For cases where the label is not needed, RFC6514 already specifies= a way to
> encode "no label", i.e., set the label field to zero. &n= bsp;There is no need to
> add another yet another attribute just so that one can omit the la= bel field
> instead of setting it to zero.
>
> From draft-wang:
>
>    the 6MPE routers convey the IPv4 address of
>    6MPE Router-ID as the BGP Next Hop for the advertised= A-D routes.
>    And the IPv4 address MUST be encoded as an IPv4-mappe= d IPv6 address
>    in the BGP Next Hop field.  This encoding is con= sistent with the
>    definition of an IPv4-mapped IPv6 address in [RFC4291= ].
>
> I was surprised to see this; if one objects to carrying eight octe= ts of RD=3D0
> and/or three octets of label=3D0, surely one will object to encodi= ng a
> four-octet IPv4 address in a 16-octet field ;-)
//Linda: Thanks for your hu= morous:) This section is only used for 6-4-6 scenario.
  I should clearly des= cribe this section in next version:)
>
> Note that this method of encoding the next hop is not consistent w= ith the MVPN
> standards; please see RFC 6515 for details.  
>
>
>
>
> 

 
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aW5lZCBpcyBzdHJpY3RseSBwcm9oaWJpdGVkLiAgSWYgeW91IGhhdmUgcmVjZWl2ZWQgdGhpcyBt YWlsIGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2UgZGVsZXRlIGl0IGFuZCBub3RpZnkgdXMgaW1tZWRpYXRlbHku DQoNCjwvZm9udD48L3ByZT48YnI+DQo= --=_alternative 0025FED048257C1B_=-- From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Thu Nov 7 10:11:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C0A4611E825C; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 10:11:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.018 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.018 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=2.581, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TZhN3nHCGUfB; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 10:11:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 611AE21E81C2; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 10:08:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AXQ62628; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:08:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 18:07:40 +0000 Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 18:08:22 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.193]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 02:08:14 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 Thread-Topic: Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 Thread-Index: Ac7b4Ko9s6ZYJuKKSlmTI20ULf2POw== Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 18:08:13 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.144.187] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 18:11:19 -0000 Hi co-author of this draft, As I had mentioned at the mic, the mechanism proposed in this draft needs t= o consider the prefix overlapping issue which has been considered and addre= ssed by LISP. To Ron, The default route on the spoke can not be resorted to address the potential= issue caused by the prefix overlapping issue. The reason is that it's the = longest-matching route 10/8, rather than the default route is used to route= the packet destined for 10.10.10.10, in the case where a route for 10/8 ha= s been returned to that spoke due to a request from that spoke for the long= est-matching route for a given host address 10.0.0.1. As a result, the tra= ffic for 10.10.10.10 would be forwarded to the nexthop for 10/8 which in tu= rn forward that traffic according to a more spefic route for 10.10.10.10. T= his is suboptimal. Assume the traffic volume for the destination of 10.10.1= 0.10 is high, how to trigger a requtst for a "real" direct route to 10.10.1= 0.10 if there exists a host route for 10.10.10.10/32 at the hub? One possib= le way is to always request a more specific route until a host route for th= e destination of the received packet is found at the spoke. Since this issue has been disccussed at LISP WG many years before. I copy t= his email to LISP as well. Best regards, Xiaohu= From zhangmingui@huawei.com Thu Nov 7 11:41:17 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 50E9911E827D for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 11:41:17 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.091 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.091 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.507, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xo32e+tZpGlB for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 669C111E822F for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 11:40:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAA48738; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:40:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 19:39:53 +0000 Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 19:40:35 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.179]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 03:40:29 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5A== Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 19:40:28 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.155.143] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBAnkgeml508mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 19:41:17 -0000 --_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBAnkgeml508mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, As a choice of fast PE protection, 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp= lex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stored re= peatedly on RG members. 2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of= PE routers. 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no penultimate-hop-p= opping=94. Thanks, Mingui --_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBAnkgeml508mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<= span style=3D"LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: both; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FO= NT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,
 
As a choice of fast PE protection,
 
1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp= lex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stored&nb= sp;repeatedly on RG members.

<= br> 2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plan= e of PE routers.

<= br> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no penultimate-hop-p= opping=94.

<= span style=3D"LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: both; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FO= NT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> 

<= span style=3D"LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: both; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FO= NT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,
Mingui

--_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBAnkgeml508mbxchi_-- From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Thu Nov 7 13:50:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9929621E80DF for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 13:50:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.574 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.574 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.024, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Tt7xIGzbKjQF for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 13:50:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DB34111E8101 for ; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 13:50:36 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-f8-527c0b2a63d5 Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id C8.01.23183.A2B0C725; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:50:34 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 16:50:34 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz To: Mingui Zhang , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JoaTP2j Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 21:50:33 +0000 Message-ID: <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCCeusaamb109erics_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrGLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt64Wd02QwaIz6hZn5/tbXJnbyObA 5NFy5C2rx5IlP5kCmKK4bFJSczLLUov07RK4Mq7e2MZW0KpecW3XEtYGxg2KXYycHBICJhJ3 H21khrDFJC7cW8/WxcjFISRwhFGi814zK0hCSGAZo8TaFRkgNpuAjsS3611gDSICPhI7uo6w gdjCAsESnc0fGSHiIRLfD76Eso0krvXsYQKxWQRUJHpufAaL8wr4Sszd2MUGMT9UYt/1ZWAz OQXCJFYfuwwWZwQ66PupNWC9zALiEreezGeCOFRAYsme81BHi0q8fPyPFcJWlvg+5xFLFyMH UH2+xPZWJ4hVghInZz5hmcAoMgvJpFkIVbOQVEGUGEi8PzefGcLWlli28DWUrS+x8ctZRmTx BYzsqxg5SotTy3LTjQw2MQLj5pgEm+4Oxj0vLQ8xSnOwKInzfnnrHCQkkJ5YkpqdmlqQWhRf VJqTWnyIkYmDU6qBscn1wbyyNZVT1a+smjC5RezLTtHtGdHpf56+Y2NK/djVujk8+s711S9M eHVar7s3/LHY8FBCN/vqnRcPhA98OzTF1tzhl6SR+USXjHX9P42URCbp/7riP2vid/5ponnX JcrsL0ziW/alUkDsgNax6Za3Pt5qfvl2FaPh5su5f0KDQoKE/XsEjZRYijMSDbWYi4oTAfIC 2GNpAgAA X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 21:50:45 -0000 --_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCCeusaamb109erics_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Several people at the mike asked this question: How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important. If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant label allocators needs to be standardized. -- Jakob Heitz. ________________________________ From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Mingui Z= hang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM To: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protectio= n" Hi, As a choice of fast PE protection, 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp= lex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stored re= peatedly on RG members. 2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of= PE routers. 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no penultimate-hop-p= opping=94. Thanks, Mingui --_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCCeusaamb109erics_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Several people at the mike asked this question:
How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label?

This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important.<= /div>
If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol
between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized.
Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the
label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a
redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant
label allocators needs to be standardized.

--

Jakob Heitz.

From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounc= es@ietf.org] on behalf of Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM
To: l3vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast = PE protection"

Hi,
 
As a choice of fast PE protection,
 
1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp= lex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stored&nb= sp;repeatedly on RG members.

2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plan= e of PE routers.

3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no penultimate-hop-p= opping=94.

 

Thanks,
Mingui

--_000_2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCCeusaamb109erics_-- From zhangmingui@huawei.com Thu Nov 7 14:15:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4D84711E8282; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 14:15:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.467 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.467 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=1.131, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Rm8c27hyyAZq; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 14:15:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19C0F21E80B0; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 14:15:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAA55974; Thu, 07 Nov 2013 22:15:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:14:33 +0000 Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:15:20 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.179]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 06:15:12 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: Jakob Heitz , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JoaTP2jgAACoOM= Date: Thu, 7 Nov 2013 22:15:10 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8C@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com>, <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.151.219] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8Cnkgeml508mbxchi_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 07 Nov 2013 22:15:44 -0000 --_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8Cnkgeml508mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jakob, There are three ways, 1. Always, this label can be configured. 2. We do have a companion draft to realize this. Please look at http://tool= s.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-pwe3-iccp-label-sharing-00 . We already present= ed this draft in pwe3. (Let me copy this track to the pwe3 mailing list.) W= ith the ICCP connection established, PEs can negotiate this label. 2. The last choice is to use a global label if it was supported. Thanks, Mingui ________________________________ From: Jakob Heitz [jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 5:50 To: Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Several people at the mike asked this question: How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important. If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant label allocators needs to be standardized. -- Jakob Heitz. ________________________________ From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Mingui Z= hang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM To: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protectio= n" Hi, As a choice of fast PE protection, 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp= lex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stored re= peatedly on RG members. 2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of= PE routers. 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no penultimate-hop-p= opping=94. Thanks, Mingui --_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8Cnkgeml508mbxchi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Jakob,

 

There are three ways,

 

1. Always, this label can be configured.

 

2. We do have a companion draft to realize this. Please look at http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-pwe3-iccp-label-sharing-00 = . We already presented this draft in pwe3. (Let me copy this trac= k to the pwe3 mailing list.) With the ICCP connection established, PEs= can negotiate this label.

From: Jakob Heitz [jakob.heitz@ericsson.co= m]
Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 5:50
To: Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org
Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for f= ast PE protection"

Several people at the mike asked this question:
How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label?

This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important.<= /div>
If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol
between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized.
Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the
label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a
redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant
label allocators needs to be standardized.

--

Jakob Heitz.

From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounce= s@ietf.org] on behalf of Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM
To: l3vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast = PE protection"

<= span style=3D"LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: both; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FO= NT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Hi,
 
As a choice of fast PE protection,
 
1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp= lex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stored&nb= sp;repeatedly on RG members.

<= br> 2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plan= e of PE routers.

<= br> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no penultimate-hop-p= opping=94.

<= span style=3D"LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: both; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FO= NT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US"> 

<= span style=3D"LAYOUT-GRID-MODE: both; FONT-FAMILY: 'Arial','sans-serif'; FO= NT-SIZE: 11pt" lang=3D"EN-US">Thanks,
Mingui

--_000_4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8Cnkgeml508mbxchi_-- From rraszuk@gmail.com Fri Nov 8 22:09:43 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C4A4721E80CE; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:09:43 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id opFBj5Qg5Xuj; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:09:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x232.google.com (mail-ie0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 953A211E8160; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:09:41 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id to1so3079256ieb.9 for ; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:09:41 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=L16BtakHYi+idkJHq8NzBQUMMDRqeAN3yPqQ8I2j7hA=; b=XBazWsUIJcYeHP24Dgsaf52WNCw0CewDHj+3CWaTmW4eP+F5O9KPMNjonGtH+c2QUa KRnt1zXIPUhKEr3W2FxzfNCozfD2J5GwtMWTU8OQfa99g6zR5CDqS164UEpg2REzsuki MBRpofML5+gbY0N9RBN6AiGoyCvk+IWv768TrSUUtl+GDI8hATFNJsdDtszeMSvpcu+6 Fg3uhL+uj2a6xa1IWHXFIcIxtIOtrQI2qQPjc2Xd4f7yfbpxCC5Muk+es7u26+Pm/+iN Fic+dE88le3ODPQ6pU9G6FK+5ltVYc2gABC1NoZVBzIa28dti9wLbO9gPAsxe/xrUgJN lhUg== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.117.103 with SMTP id kd7mr5458527igb.4.1383977381336; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:09:41 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:09:41 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 07:09:41 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: IgepLOYW2K6lmNJ0NygwMRG9hqE Message-ID: Subject: Re: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 From: Robert Raszuk To: Xuxiaohu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 06:09:44 -0000 Hi Xiaohu, While you are asking Ron directly you are cc-ing the lists so let me clarify your observation .. In each L3VPN context each PE advertise set of routes towards other PEs. Those routes are most often advertised via RR. I have never seen the case where RR or set of RRs would in any sort summarize routes more then PEs advertise. So if site has a host with the address of 10.10.10.10 which our high bandwith flow is destined to PE (or PEs) connected to such site will advertise the most specific subnet possible to reach 10.10.10.10. And that is all what is needed here. Based on the request from the v-spoke RR will return the longest match which will have next hop pointing to one of PEs connected the end site. I see really no problem there. If customer/provider on purpose enforced that to get to 10.10.10.10 you need to traverse some other site (for example DMZ/firewall/service XYZ) that is on purpose and we MUST honor it. This draft RFC7024 can not modify such routing enforced by customer. Best, R. PS. I see no relation to LISP here ;) From rraszuk@gmail.com Fri Nov 8 22:20:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D196911E8100; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:20:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.398 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.398 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.020, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id NjvCBJUoEPUU; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:20:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22a.google.com (mail-ie0-x22a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22a]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2628311E80E7; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:20:31 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f170.google.com with SMTP id at1so4815125iec.15 for ; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:20:28 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=pnVsQgy79nSZm1oGcUgWHTollFDy1wznQ0OjeMevqXo=; b=BJR34vi4F6JLQjW1scPSuVhl5UyYOw8CKxzXO2BYPFCCM7YpYTUbfKAh+fzjmGbkGV mNYqq+QpX7o6KpH+Lm9VTK2++ieY0pq5X0oxMom0pG6uTSuDIbLX7nxusDx/TmC84gBI x9ijd0BgPbSa1p1CdPYPAkXhhqh4XFycKrcNEoHlTTAuBPedOHH42XSVfkIiyLwlL6pN WVFUXhtkpywCMPDEc5yrvJ35e9/EHlNIJ4OKKbC0lBzWp3aXXaqYZ7SXVrt+OFzYd19N l+zWDeQ3UVPUm3iFPa8kaauj4wSF3pHPUqy06lhStiH9TKU5JPzDPCGcBiLr8wVaFySu u7yw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.117.103 with SMTP id kd7mr5482569igb.4.1383978028020; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:20:28 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:20:27 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8C@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8C@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 07:20:27 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 7KZb6tGUQkNU4SdN1Wj4j9UdeoQ Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: Mingui Zhang Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 06:20:33 -0000 Hi Mingui, If your implementation configures a same VPN label across N sites manual or by SDN magic you are free to advertise it along with VPNv4 routes. I am not sure why any draft is needed for that at all. After all it is your implementation. To the best of my knowledge L3VPN spec does not prohibit in any RFC to advertise the same label across N PEs. In fact it does not mandate any correlation of label value across PEs so you are pretty free to go. However if you go that path please notice that this is not just about .. "let's configure same VPN label". We do have three types of VPN labels: - per vrf - per next hop - per prefix I am a bit implicitly assuming you are talking about per vrf label only. Other modes of label allocation would be rather cumbersome to be done manually or even programmatically as their appearance and allocation must be coordinated with new CE or new VPN advertisement in any VPN site and across existence of already provisioned sites. As Eric mentioned today devil is in details and where you go down to actually implement robust solution I can bet that you will start very much to like to concept of context labels for protection and independent VPN (or for that matter any other application - pwe3/l2vpn etc) label allocation pardigm :) Best regards, R. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Mingui Zhang wrot= e: > Hi Jakob, > > > > There are three ways, > > > > 1. Always, this label can be configured. > > > > 2. We do have a companion draft to realize this. Please look at > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-pwe3-iccp-label-sharing-00 . We > already presented this draft in pwe3. (Let me copy this track to the pwe3 > mailing list.) With the ICCP connection established, PEs can negotiate th= is > label. > > > > 2. The last choice is to use a global label if it was supported. > > > Thanks, > Mingui > ________________________________ > From: Jakob Heitz [jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 5:50 > To: Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" > > Several people at the mike asked this question: > How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > > This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important. > If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > label allocators needs to be standardized. > > -- > > Jakob Heitz. > > ________________________________ > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Mingui > Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > To: l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" > > Hi, > > As a choice of fast PE protection, > > 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the > complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be sto= red > repeatedly on RG members. > > > 2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P ro= uters > (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of P= E > routers. > > > 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no > penultimate-hop-popping=94. > > > > Thanks, > Mingui From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Fri Nov 8 22:37:08 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3BDD411E8100; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:37:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.156 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.156 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.893, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 2+GDoHxjiECY; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:37:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2FBE911E80E7; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:37:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAB71257; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 06:36:58 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 06:36:53 +0000 Received: from NKGEML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.32) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 06:36:57 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.193]) by nkgeml401-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.32]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 14:36:49 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Robert Raszuk Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogW2xpc3BdIFByZWZpeCBvdmVybGFwcGluZyBpc3N1ZSBmb3IJZHJh?= =?gb2312?Q?ft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00?= Thread-Topic: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 Thread-Index: AQHO3RJNFCbVoFDJaEyCzaQ7NJc1dJocbSd8 Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 06:36:48 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227BF1@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.157.237] Content-Type: text/plain; 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Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:51:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.337 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.337 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-3.580, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 8QsZezjIWclp; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x230.google.com (mail-ie0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1751E11E80E7; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:51:24 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id x13so2111742ief.7 for ; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:51:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=LpT0wQJp9yzpLSzyP1TH6OJ82UNc4U1DsAis6QAohxY=; b=Qfj6pgT3Le2cu9wgAKlZlJHVgw7yD5K3XCXUq279/3s+dfXML0iEf+UrL5QkcTXDwV suEU8MrKPcoOisewJoQbhqCn2cd0goQzPM1CIKwso4+Zf1zs3wZmktkk4FSDxcs8Gnsq ktHjpq3MGfeQq0cBjBwCvq540HJasHWyCbTqN/eL+lrjF+605yY7lD7ZR6xrHUjcsfSB Ncz4A0jX3qnrul5+N6PoJvqph6E3Mx17zAPu+iSuwtiWMMEWSTyLlwVFCjpF6vyHXajI oQgMGW8okSXyTAbS30EF33KkgPNVmHDXbdbs6+lSQ56XdFcVvXDhKOi/dFnC9AZ4C6V1 QjnQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.11.67 with SMTP id o3mr5413949igb.55.1383979883407; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 22:51:23 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 22:51:23 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227BF1@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227BF1@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 07:51:23 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: lCtlMaDR1taUpKMga_jkEg1mRX4 Message-ID: Subject: =?GB2312?Q?Re=3A_=B4=F0=B8=B4=3A_=5Blisp=5D_Prefix_overlapping_issue_for_draf?= =?GB2312?Q?t=2Dbonica=2Dl3vpn=2Dorf=2Dcovering=2Dprefixes=2D00?= From: Robert Raszuk To: Xuxiaohu Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 06:51:24 -0000 Hi Xiaohu, Prefix overlap within VPN is either on purpose injected into given VPN or is due to VPN misconfiguration. Detection or mitigation of this as far as I can see is outside of scope of this draft. LISP operates in global space, this draft operates in VPN space. Those spaces while seemingly similar in reality have very different routing characteristics. Best, R. On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote: > Hi Robert, > > As long as there is a possibility of prefix overlapping within a given VP= N instance, the mechanism defined in this draft would encounter the same pr= oblem that LISP had ever encountered. > > Best regards, > Xiaohu > ________________________________________ > =B7=A2=BC=FE=C8=CB: lisp-bounces@ietf.org [lisp-bounces@ietf.org] =B4=FA= =B1=ED Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.net] > =B7=A2=CB=CD=CA=B1=BC=E4: 2013=C4=EA11=D4=C29=C8=D5 14:09 > =CA=D5=BC=FE=C8=CB: Xuxiaohu > =B3=AD=CB=CD: l3vpn@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org > =D6=F7=CC=E2: Re: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3= vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 > > Hi Xiaohu, > > While you are asking Ron directly you are cc-ing the lists so let me > clarify your observation .. > > In each L3VPN context each PE advertise set of routes towards other > PEs. Those routes are most often advertised via RR. > > I have never seen the case where RR or set of RRs would in any sort > summarize routes more then PEs advertise. > > So if site has a host with the address of 10.10.10.10 which our high > bandwith flow is destined to PE (or PEs) connected to such site will > advertise the most specific subnet possible to reach 10.10.10.10. > > And that is all what is needed here. > > Based on the request from the v-spoke RR will return the longest match > which will have next hop pointing to one of PEs connected the end > site. I see really no problem there. > > If customer/provider on purpose enforced that to get to 10.10.10.10 > you need to traverse some other site (for example DMZ/firewall/service > XYZ) that is on purpose and we MUST honor it. This draft RFC7024 can > not modify such routing enforced by customer. > > Best, > R. > > PS. I see no relation to LISP here ;) > _______________________________________________ > lisp mailing list > lisp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp From zhangmingui@huawei.com Sat Nov 9 00:33:14 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 656B821F9F19; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 00:33:14 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.394 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.394 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.605, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bluFnTIrR7ar; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 00:33:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7B82A21F9F01; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 00:33:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAB76209; Sat, 09 Nov 2013 08:33:07 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 08:32:59 +0000 Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 08:33:02 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.179]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 16:32:57 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: Robert Raszuk Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JoaTP2jgAACoOOAAZoGgIAAp16e Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 08:32:57 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336612A0@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660E8C@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.148.66] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 08:33:14 -0000 Hi Robert, Thanks for your comments! >If your implementation configures a same VPN label across N sites >manual or by SDN magic you are free to advertise it along with VPNv4 >routes. I am not sure why any draft is needed for that at all. After >all it is your implementation. [ZMG] The point is that each PE used to allocate the VPN label for each VRF= locally without knowing what label has been assigned by other PEs. Now, we= need them =93happen to=94 allocate the same label for each VRF.=20 >To the best of my knowledge L3VPN spec does not prohibit in any RFC to >advertise the same label across N PEs. In fact it does not mandate any >correlation of label value across PEs so you are pretty free to go. [ZMG] Or you can speak in this way. It=92s free for this draft to mandate a= REQ to the label allocation that PEs in a Redundant Group always allocate = the same label for each VRF. >I am a bit implicitly assuming you are talking about per vrf label >only.=20 [ZMG] Yes, you are right. We are assuming the =93per VRF=94 allocation in o= ur draft for the sake of scalability.=20 >Other modes of label allocation would be rather cumbersome=20 [ZMG] I agree with you. Other two finer grained label allocations are not r= ecommended.=20 >As Eric mentioned today devil is in details and where you go down to >actually implement robust solution I can bet that you will start very >much to like to concept of context labels for protection and >independent VPN (or for that matter any other application - pwe3/l2vpn >etc) label allocation pardigm :) [ZMG] I believe when Eric made that statement, he assumed the label allocat= ion was done by a =93SDN central controller=94. I guess that was simply an = abstraction caused by the chaos of the =93central controlled=94 conception.= =20 [ZMG] To make the discussion clear, let=92s forget about the =93central con= trolled=94 like stuff from now on. We proposed the draft leveraging ICCP co= nnection to do the label negotiation. Please focus on that choice. ICCP ha= s already provided that robustness. Why reinvent the wheel? :) Regards, Mingui ________________________________________ From: rraszuk@gmail.com [rraszuk@gmail.com] on behalf of Robert Raszuk [rob= ert@raszuk.net] Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 14:20 To: Mingui Zhang Cc: Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org; pwe3@ietf.org Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Hi Mingui, If your implementation configures a same VPN label across N sites manual or by SDN magic you are free to advertise it along with VPNv4 routes. I am not sure why any draft is needed for that at all. After all it is your implementation. To the best of my knowledge L3VPN spec does not prohibit in any RFC to advertise the same label across N PEs. In fact it does not mandate any correlation of label value across PEs so you are pretty free to go. However if you go that path please notice that this is not just about .. "let's configure same VPN label". We do have three types of VPN labels: - per vrf - per next hop - per prefix I am a bit implicitly assuming you are talking about per vrf label only. Other modes of label allocation would be rather cumbersome to be done manually or even programmatically as their appearance and allocation must be coordinated with new CE or new VPN advertisement in any VPN site and across existence of already provisioned sites. As Eric mentioned today devil is in details and where you go down to actually implement robust solution I can bet that you will start very much to like to concept of context labels for protection and independent VPN (or for that matter any other application - pwe3/l2vpn etc) label allocation pardigm :) Best regards, R. On Thu, Nov 7, 2013 at 11:15 PM, Mingui Zhang wrot= e: > Hi Jakob, > > > > There are three ways, > > > > 1. Always, this label can be configured. > > > > 2. We do have a companion draft to realize this. Please look at > http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-zhang-pwe3-iccp-label-sharing-00 . We > already presented this draft in pwe3. (Let me copy this track to the pwe3 > mailing list.) With the ICCP connection established, PEs can negotiate th= is > label. > > > > 2. The last choice is to use a global label if it was supported. > > > Thanks, > Mingui > ________________________________ > From: Jakob Heitz [jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] > Sent: Friday, November 08, 2013 5:50 > To: Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" > > Several people at the mike asked this question: > How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > > This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important. > If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > label allocators needs to be standardized. > > -- > > Jakob Heitz. > > ________________________________ > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Mingui > Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > To: l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" > > Hi, > > As a choice of fast PE protection, > > 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the > complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be sto= red > repeatedly on RG members. > > > 2. Also, it=92s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P ro= uters > (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of P= E > routers. > > > 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of =93no > penultimate-hop-popping=94. > > > > Thanks, > Mingui= From farinacci@gmail.com Fri Nov 8 23:01:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1941021E80EB; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:01:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.151 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.151 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_QP_LONG_LINE=1.396, SARE_SUB_ENC_UTF8=0.152] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id foRZGnIdKLjd; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-pb0-x235.google.com (mail-pb0-x235.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:400e:c01::235]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7780A21E8056; Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-pb0-f53.google.com with SMTP id up7so3087729pbc.26 for ; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 23:01:17 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=content-type:mime-version:subject:from:in-reply-to:date:cc :content-transfer-encoding:message-id:references:to; bh=7tSiBRhWisFQRRUlBSxMWs4k2gFYKU+wjVuP/b5dRlk=; b=FS/DgN7WwH++tkhd+DOut1e+k/bli9morUGjx/PYBb2cnNlkqYptC7qv9m3DbfqmMV xl1vJVVUg1rru0nBELICozcTTvJGa/urM2wGS9j1jJv1QWwQpplnjldzIQjqNaLHA40Z TkrmsZ4MBJ/S9EhBwjt6AUEXFA2Z8IVucwQpeX7sVtfojBWZlOKPTGRzBAn7eNGxuoRl A/drU5cZCl2/fN30pigWPDDPGgVUSRVLmKUm6uE8J+8pXSGmAt/8IwnP4pVKCFebfD8A aoAIxDhabHKAgHWvZ4WGUaYmipVal63McYEb4muT2htekHSkbLTuh3fTjdyjtXJW3kVV jt/A== X-Received: by 10.66.150.41 with SMTP id uf9mr20010959pab.108.1383980477124; Fri, 08 Nov 2013 23:01:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from [10.9.48.204] (mobile-166-137-184-163.mycingular.net. [166.137.184.163]) by mx.google.com with ESMTPSA id rv9sm16620580pbc.4.2013.11.08.23.01.16 for (version=TLSv1 cipher=ECDHE-RSA-RC4-SHA bits=128/128); Fri, 08 Nov 2013 23:01:16 -0800 (PST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) Subject: =?utf-8?Q?Re:_[lisp]_=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D:__Prefix_overlapping_iss?= =?utf-8?Q?ue_for_draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00?= From: Dino Farinacci X-Mailer: iPhone Mail (11B511) In-Reply-To: Date: Fri, 8 Nov 2013 23:01:17 -0800 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7CDF7688-E52D-4CCD-B813-FD46BBFBB3EA@gmail.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227BF1@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> To: Robert Raszuk X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 01:15:52 -0800 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 07:01:18 -0000 Can you guys give us context. Robert, you didn't copy lisp@ietf.org with the= original message/claim from Xiaohu.=20 Dino > On Nov 8, 2013, at 10:51 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote: >=20 > Hi Xiaohu, >=20 > Prefix overlap within VPN is either on purpose injected into given VPN > or is due to VPN misconfiguration. >=20 > Detection or mitigation of this as far as I can see is outside of > scope of this draft. >=20 > LISP operates in global space, this draft operates in VPN space. Those > spaces while seemingly similar in reality have very different routing > characteristics. >=20 > Best, > R. >=20 >> On Sat, Nov 9, 2013 at 7:36 AM, Xuxiaohu wrote: >> Hi Robert, >>=20 >> As long as there is a possibility of prefix overlapping within a given VP= N instance, the mechanism defined in this draft would encounter the same pro= blem that LISP had ever encountered. >>=20 >> Best regards, >> Xiaohu >> ________________________________________ >> =E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: lisp-bounces@ietf.org [lisp-bounces@ietf.org= ] =E4=BB=A3=E8=A1=A8 Robert Raszuk [robert@raszuk.net] >> =E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2013=E5=B9=B411=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 1= 4:09 >> =E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Xuxiaohu >> =E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: l3vpn@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org >> =E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bon= ica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 >>=20 >> Hi Xiaohu, >>=20 >> While you are asking Ron directly you are cc-ing the lists so let me >> clarify your observation .. >>=20 >> In each L3VPN context each PE advertise set of routes towards other >> PEs. Those routes are most often advertised via RR. >>=20 >> I have never seen the case where RR or set of RRs would in any sort >> summarize routes more then PEs advertise. >>=20 >> So if site has a host with the address of 10.10.10.10 which our high >> bandwith flow is destined to PE (or PEs) connected to such site will >> advertise the most specific subnet possible to reach 10.10.10.10. >>=20 >> And that is all what is needed here. >>=20 >> Based on the request from the v-spoke RR will return the longest match >> which will have next hop pointing to one of PEs connected the end >> site. I see really no problem there. >>=20 >> If customer/provider on purpose enforced that to get to 10.10.10.10 >> you need to traverse some other site (for example DMZ/firewall/service >> XYZ) that is on purpose and we MUST honor it. This draft RFC7024 can >> not modify such routing enforced by customer. >>=20 >> Best, >> R. >>=20 >> PS. I see no relation to LISP here ;) >> _______________________________________________ >> lisp mailing list >> lisp@ietf.org >> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp > _______________________________________________ > lisp mailing list > lisp@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lisp From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Sat Nov 9 08:34:00 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF83821E80DB; Sat, 9 Nov 2013 08:34:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.215 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.215 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-1.834, BAYES_00=-2.599, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_BASE64_TEXT=1.753, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4, SARE_SUB_ENC_GB2312=1.345] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost 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14.03.0158.001; Sun, 10 Nov 2013 00:33:46 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: Dino Farinacci , Robert Raszuk Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogW2xpc3BdILTwuLQ6ICBQcmVmaXggb3ZlcmxhcHBpbmcgaXNzdWUg?= =?gb2312?Q?for_draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?W2xpc3BdILTwuLQ6ICBQcmVmaXggb3ZlcmxhcHBpbmcgaXNzdWUgZm9yIGRy?= =?gb2312?Q?aft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00?= Thread-Index: AQHO3RmH5ngqah8fpUS6wDlz3mGrZJodGG+7 Date: Sat, 9 Nov 2013 16:33:45 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227C9E@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227BF1@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> , <7CDF7688-E52D-4CCD-B813-FD46BBFBB3EA@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <7CDF7688-E52D-4CCD-B813-FD46BBFBB3EA@gmail.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.141.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 09 Nov 2013 16:34:01 -0000 SGkgRGlubywNCg0KdGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBpcyB0aGUgb3JpZ2luYWwgZW1haWw6DQoNCisrKysr KysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKysrKw0KSGkgY28tYXV0aG9yIG9mIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQsDQoNCkFzIEkg aGFkIG1lbnRpb25lZCBhdCB0aGUgbWljLCB0aGUgbWVjaGFuaXNtIHByb3Bvc2VkIGluIHRoaXMg ZHJhZnQgbmVlZHMgdG8gY29uc2lkZXIgdGhlIHByZWZpeCBvdmVybGFwcGluZyBpc3N1ZSB3aGlj aCBoYXMgYmVlbiBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGFuZCBhZGRyZXNzZWQgYnkgTElTUC4NCg0KVG8gUm9uLA0K DQpUaGUgZGVmYXVsdCByb3V0ZSBvbiB0aGUgc3Bva2UgY2FuIG5vdCBiZSByZXNvcnRlZCB0byBh ZGRyZXNzIHRoZSBwb3RlbnRpYWwgaXNzdWUgY2F1c2VkIGJ5IHRoZSBwcmVmaXggb3ZlcmxhcHBp bmcgaXNzdWUuIFRoZSByZWFzb24gaXMgdGhhdCBpdCdzIHRoZSBsb25nZXN0LW1hdGNoaW5nIHJv 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with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:01:10 +0000 Received: from DFWEML509-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.11.113]) by dfweml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.131]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Sun, 10 Nov 2013 23:00:59 -0800 From: Lucy yong To: Robert Raszuk , Xuxiaohu Subject: RE: ??: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 Thread-Topic: ??: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 Thread-Index: AQHO3Rgk0EGAccVZrEOtrYlS51WxCpofmj4A Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:00:59 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D452EC235@dfweml509-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227BF1@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.135.129] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:01:19 -0000 V2hlbiByZXF1ZXN0aW5nIGNvdmVyaW5nIHByZWZpeCwgaXQgaGFzIHRoZSBjaGFuY2UgdGhhdCBh IHByZWZpeCBtYXkgYXBwbHkgdG8gbW9yZSB0aGFuIG9uIFZQTiBzaXRlIGluIHRoZSBlbnZpcm9u bWVudCBvZiBWTSBtb2JpbGl0eS4gSWYgd2UganVzdCByZXF1ZXN0IGEgaG9zdCBvciBhIHNldCBv ZiBob3N0IGFkZHJlc3NlcywgYW5kIGdpdmUgdGhlIHJ1bGUgdGhhdCBvbmx5IFBFcyB0aGF0IGhh cyB0aGUgaG9zdCByb3V0ZSByZXBsaWVzIHRoZSByZXF1ZXN0LiBUaGlzIG1heSBhZGRyZXNzIHRo ZSBpc3N1ZSwgaXNuJ3QgaXQ/IE90aGVyd2lzZSwgZHVlIHRvIHRoZSByZXNwb25zZSB0aW1lIGRp ZmZlcmVuY2UsIHRoZSBpbmdyZXNzIFBFIG1heSBzZW5kIHRoZSBwYWNrZXQgdG8gdGhlIHdyb25n IFBFLCBpc24ndCBpdD8gQnV0IGlmIFBFIGRvZXMgbm90IGhhdmUgaG9zdCBhZGRyZXNzIHZpc2li 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ZWFsbHkgbm8gcHJvYmxlbSB0aGVyZS4NCj4NCj4gSWYgY3VzdG9tZXIvcHJvdmlkZXIgb24gcHVy cG9zZSBlbmZvcmNlZCB0aGF0IHRvIGdldCB0byAxMC4xMC4xMC4xMCANCj4geW91IG5lZWQgdG8g dHJhdmVyc2Ugc29tZSBvdGhlciBzaXRlIChmb3IgZXhhbXBsZSBETVovZmlyZXdhbGwvc2Vydmlj ZQ0KPiBYWVopIHRoYXQgaXMgb24gcHVycG9zZSBhbmQgd2UgTVVTVCBob25vciBpdC4gVGhpcyBk cmFmdCBSRkM3MDI0IGNhbiANCj4gbm90IG1vZGlmeSBzdWNoIHJvdXRpbmcgZW5mb3JjZWQgYnkg Y3VzdG9tZXIuDQo+DQo+IEJlc3QsDQo+IFIuDQo+DQo+IFBTLiBJIHNlZSBubyByZWxhdGlvbiB0 byBMSVNQIGhlcmUgOykNCj4gX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX18NCj4gbGlzcCBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gbGlzcEBpZXRmLm9yZw0KPiBodHRwczov L3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xpc3ANCg== From rraszuk@gmail.com Mon Nov 11 01:30:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DF5BB21F9F62; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 01:30:00 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.473 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.473 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.505, BAYES_00=-2.599, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, NO_RELAYS=-0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id qQMCzOyPWv+A; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 01:30:00 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22c.google.com (mail-ie0-x22c.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22c]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 79E5B21E805D; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 01:21:20 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f172.google.com with SMTP id to1so1580472ieb.17 for ; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 01:21:03 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type:content-transfer-encoding; bh=/NTlicejbVSdFASX6OVAogGPNRnUMJbA5HDHrbT1qfg=; b=0u7rJ7778djfWV6KwMogrVwVZR+oO7EWLKzbJzCP150vscVtGYfBZXaHy/RDBFp1vf 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draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 From: Robert Raszuk To: Lucy yong Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 09:30:05 -0000 Hi Lucy, Proposed solution works within a VPN context. It is not a general design at this point. I am actually looking what would be the optimal encoding to address the VPN case particulary RFC7024 optimality as well as possibly to also allow for other applications. Enforcing to request host address will not work as PEs do not carry host routes for VPNs .... at least those which are properly configured :) Site addresses are advertised in blocks. Of course if site consists of single tenant VM that would be host address - but this is rather special case for one solution space. To your point of sending to "wrong PE" I do not really see that. At most it may be suboptimal PE for some duration of time ... not wrong one. And the case will self-cure when more specific get's advertised anyway. Best regards, R. On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Lucy yong wrote: > When requesting covering prefix, it has the chance that a prefix may appl= y to more than on VPN site in the environment of VM mobility. If we just re= quest a host or a set of host addresses, and give the rule that only PEs th= at has the host route replies the request. This may address the issue, isn'= t it? Otherwise, due to the response time difference, the ingress PE may se= nd the packet to the wrong PE, isn't it? But if PE does not have host addre= ss visibility, this will not work. > > IMO: We need a solution to work w/ or w/o RR. > > Lucy > > -----Original Message----- > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Robert Raszuk > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 12:51 AM > To: Xuxiaohu > Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: ??: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-o= rf-covering-prefixes-00 > > Hi Xiaohu, > > Prefix overlap within VPN is either on purpose injected into given VPN or= is due to VPN misconfiguration. > > Detection or mitigation of this as far as I can see is outside of scope o= f this draft. > > LISP operates in global space, this draft operates in VPN space. Those sp= aces while seemingly similar in reality have very different routing charact= eristics. > > Best, > R. From lucy.yong@huawei.com Mon Nov 11 13:31:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1ACC21E809D; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:31:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.161 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.161 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.438, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id OOPr5Yist7Fw; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:31:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D74EC21E8090; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:31:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AXT83593; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 21:31:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 21:30:51 +0000 Received: from DFWEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.134) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 21:31:02 +0000 Received: from DFWEML509-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.11.113]) by dfweml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.134]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 11 Nov 2013 13:30:54 -0800 From: Lucy yong To: Robert Raszuk Subject: RE: ??: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 Thread-Topic: ??: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 Thread-Index: AQHO3Rgk0EGAccVZrEOtrYlS51WxCpofmj4AgACwXYCAAELFIA== Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 21:30:53 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D452ECC2F@dfweml509-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227588@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08227BF1@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D452EC235@dfweml509-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.142.132] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 21:31:11 -0000 Hi Robert, Please see inline. -----Original Message----- From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Rasz= uk Sent: Monday, November 11, 2013 3:21 AM To: Lucy yong Cc: Xuxiaohu; l3vpn@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org Subject: Re: ??: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf= -covering-prefixes-00 Hi Lucy, Proposed solution works within a VPN context. It is not a general design at= this point. I am actually looking what would be the optimal encoding to address the VPN= case particulary RFC7024 optimality as well as possibly to also allow for = other applications. [Lucy] that is great to hear. Glad to work together on the solution. Enforcing to request host address will not work as PEs do not carry host ro= utes for VPNs .... at least those which are properly configured :) Site addresses are advertised in blocks. Of course if site consists of s= ingle tenant VM that would be host address - but this is rather special cas= e for one solution space. [Lucy] Agree. My use cases are in DC and for VN overlay now. So requesting = host address works there. But not work if PE does not have the host visibil= ity. Our goal should target to address both cases. If it runs into too comp= lex in BGP environment, we can scale back. Love to hear your proposal. To your point of sending to "wrong PE" I do not really see that. At most it= may be suboptimal PE for some duration of time ... not wrong one. And the = case will self-cure when more specific get's advertised anyway. [Lucy] This is what I mean. Agree that "suboptimal PE" only happens in a sh= ort period. Regards, Lucy Best regards, R. On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 8:00 AM, Lucy yong wrote: > When requesting covering prefix, it has the chance that a prefix may appl= y to more than on VPN site in the environment of VM mobility. If we just re= quest a host or a set of host addresses, and give the rule that only PEs th= at has the host route replies the request. This may address the issue, isn'= t it? Otherwise, due to the response time difference, the ingress PE may se= nd the packet to the wrong PE, isn't it? But if PE does not have host addre= ss visibility, this will not work. > > IMO: We need a solution to work w/ or w/o RR. > > Lucy > > -----Original Message----- > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf=20 > Of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Saturday, November 09, 2013 12:51 AM > To: Xuxiaohu > Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; lisp@ietf.org > Subject: Re: ??: [lisp] Prefix overlapping issue for=20 > draft-bonica-l3vpn-orf-covering-prefixes-00 > > Hi Xiaohu, > > Prefix overlap within VPN is either on purpose injected into given VPN or= is due to VPN misconfiguration. > > Detection or mitigation of this as far as I can see is outside of scope o= f this draft. > > LISP operates in global space, this draft operates in VPN space. Those sp= aces while seemingly similar in reality have very different routing charact= eristics. > > Best, > R. From bruno.decraene@orange.com Tue Nov 12 07:59:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9A9921E8288 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 07:59:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.048 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.048 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.050, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_16=0.6, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0gAko115a8w5 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 07:59:55 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias244.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.244]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5B7E821E8289 for ; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 07:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfeda07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.200]) by omfeda14.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 8663C2AD182; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:59:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.186]) by omfeda07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 5B07515808A; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:59:37 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a441:e6a9:6143:6f0f]) by PEXCVZYH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:59:37 +0100 From: To: Mingui Zhang Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JohspVQ Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 15:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.3] Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8FPEXCVZYM11corpo_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.11.12.74814 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 16:00:00 -0000 --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8FPEXCVZYM11corpo_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mingui, Please see comments inlined. #Bruno Plus some comments below on the draft: 1) The document does not describe the scaling impact on the core as it= creates, in the core IGP, states on a per CE (customers'site) basis. For l= arge SP, this will represent a significant impact on the IGP and will degra= de the IGP convergence time. ( o(number of important IGP prefixes to rewrit= e) ) 2) > A master PE is elected in the same way the DR is selected (see sectio= n 7.3 of [RFC2328]), or the= DIS is selected [ISIS]. I don't think that this is directly applicable. You may need to elaborate o= n this and specify the corner cases (e.g. CE starts and advertise its route= s to both PE at the same time. Hence both PE believes they are the first on= e and hence are the master.) Also in BGP VPN or IGP there is no advertiseme= nt of "Router Priority". I guess that this can always be specified, but thi= s remains to be done. 3) " Suppose PE3 fails and the packet with VPN route label 1100 is redirected to PE4. PE4 can recognize this shared label. It simply looks up the packet's destination address in the VRF identified by this label. As specified in Section 5 of [RFC4364], PE4 will be able to determine, the attachment circuit over which the packet should be transmitted (to the CE) as well as the data link layer header for that interface. In this way, the failed egress PE is smoothly protected. > "It simply looks up the packet's destination address in the VRF identified by this label". IMHO additional elaboration may be required as the nominal = PE may be the nominal because it has advertised a more specific route. Henc= e a look up in the VRF will match the more specific route from the nominal/= failed PE. Not sure how a vanilia PE implementation would react. The issue = is that when receiving the packet, the backup PE does not know whether the = nominal is dead or not. In contrast to draft-minto for which the PE know wh= ether it's used as backup or not, thanks to the contextual label. Regards, Bruno From: Mingui Zhang Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 8:40 PM Hi, As a choice of fast PE protection, 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp= lex context label table in PE routers. #Bruno: draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protection is simple and light-w= eight ;-) More seriously: - Draft minto does not need to define a new protocol (ICCP) in order to lea= rn the labels of the backup PE. BGP already provides this. While ICCP is a = 79 pages draft, plus 11 for the extension. - Draft zhang relies on the having the same label on redundant PE. While th= is is doable, this is a significant change compared to the existing deploye= d model. - regarding context label tabel - From a standardization standpoint, context-specific lab= el space is already defined in RFC 5331, so nothing new. - From an implementation standpoint, I agree that this re= quires some additional resources in the forwarding plane. But draft minto d= oes not require that all PE support this. This can be performed by a protec= tor PE if some PE do not support it. So label table need not be stored repeatedly on RG members. #Bruno: agreed. 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P router= s (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of P= E routers. #Bruno: It's not easy to deploy as it mandates to update all PE routers, bo= th nominal and backup. While with draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protect= ion the deployment of a single protector PE can fast protect all PE of the= AS with no change on existing PE. 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no penultimate-hop-pop= ping". #Bruno: ultimate hop poping is only required for the label associated with = the context table of the backup PE. This is required to identify the contex= t-specific label space. This is not an additional argument compared to 1 (c= ontext label table). Thanks, Mingui ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. --_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8FPEXCVZYM11corpo_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Mingui,

 <= /p>

Please see= comments inlined. #Bruno

 = ;

Plus some = comments below on the draft:

 

1)      The document does not describe the scalin=
g impact on the core as it creates, in the core IGP, states on a per CE (cu=
stomers’site) basis. For large SP, this will represent a significant =
impact on the IGP and will degrade the IGP convergence time. ( o(number of =
important IGP prefixes to rewrite) )


 

2)  > A master PE is elected in t=
he same way the DR is selected (see section 7.3 of [RFC232=
8]), or the DIS is selected [ISIS].


I don’t think that thi=
s is directly applicable. You may need to elaborate on this and specify the=
 corner cases (e.g. CE starts and advertise its routes to both PE at the sa=
me time. Hence both PE believes they are the first one and hence are the ma=
ster.) Also in BGP VPN or IGP there is no advertisement of “Router Pr=
iority”. I guess that this can always be specified, but this remains =
to be done.


 =
;


3)  “   Suppose PE3 =
fails and the packet with VPN route label 1100 is


   redirected to PE4. PE4 can recognize=
 this shared label. It simply


   looks up the packet's destination ad=
dress in the VRF identified by


   this label. As specified in <=
a href=3D"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc4364#section-5">Section 5 of [RFC4364], PE4 will be =
able


   to determine, the attachment circuit=
 over which the packet should be


   transmitted (to the CE) as well as t=
he data link layer header for


   that interface. In this way, the fai=
led egress PE is smoothly


   protected. »<=
/o:p>


 


 “=
It simply


   looks up the packet's destination ad=
dress in the VRF identified by


   this label”. IMHO additional elaboration may be required=
 as the nominal PE may be the nominal because it has advertised a more spec=
ific route. Hence a look up in the VRF will match the more specific route f=
rom the nominal/failed PE. Not sure how a vanilia PE implementation would r=
eact. The issue is that when receiving the packet, the backup PE does not k=
now whether the nominal is dead or not. In contrast to draft-minto for whic=
h the PE know whether it’s used as backup or not, thanks to the conte=
xtual label.


 =
;


Regards,


Bruno=



 =
;








From: Mingui Zhang
Sent: Thursday, November 07, 2013 8:40 PM










 




Hi,

 

As a choice of fast PE protection, 

 

1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the comp=
lex context label table in PE routers.



#Bruno: <=
span lang=3D"EN-US">draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protection=
 is simple and light-weight ;-) M=
ore seriously:


- Draft minto does not need =
to define a new protocol (ICCP) in order to learn the labels of the backup =
PE. BGP already provides this. While ICCP is a 79 pages draft, plus 11 for =
the extension.


- Draft zhang relies on the =
having the same label on redundant PE. While this is doable, this is a sign=
ificant change compared to the existing deployed model.

- regarding context label ta=
bel


    &nbs=
p;             =
- From a standardization standpoint, context-specific label space is alread=
y defined in RFC 5331, so nothing new.


    &nbs=
p;             =
- From an implementation standpoint, I agree that this requires some additi=
onal resources in the forwarding plane. But draft minto does not require th=
at all PE support this. This can be performed by a protector PE if some PE =
do not support it.


 =
;


So label table=
 need not be stored repeatedly on RG members.


#Bruno: ag=
reed.=





2. Also, it’s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P =
routers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data =
plane of PE routers.


#Bruno: It=
’s not easy to deploy as it mandates to update all PE routers, both n=
ominal and backup. While with
draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-p=
rotection

the deployment of a single protector PE can fast protect all PE of the AS w=
ith no change on existing PE.





3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of “no penultimate-h=
op-popping”.


#Bruno: ul=
timate hop poping is only required for the label associated with the contex=
t table of the backup PE. This is required to identify the
 context-specific label space. This is not an additional argument compared =
to 1 (context label table).


 


Thanks,

Mingui






______________________________________________________________________=
___________________________________________________

Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden=
tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc
pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu=
 ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler
a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el=
ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration,
Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou =
falsifie. Merci.

This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf=
ormation that may be protected by law;
they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation.
If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele=
te this message and its attachments.
As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been =
modified, changed or falsified.
Thank you.
--_000_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8FPEXCVZYM11corpo_-- From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Nov 12 09:40:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 91F5D21E8141; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:40:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.593 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.593 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.007, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id g5Iz4Uh6a9FU; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:40:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5A53011E8142; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:40:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-02.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.83 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20131112174012.28777.97849.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 09:40:12 -0800 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 17:40:25 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working = Group of the IETF. Title : Encoding mLDP FECs in the NLRI of BGP MCAST-VPN Routes Author(s) : IJsbrand Wijnands Eric C. Rosen Uwe Joorde Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-02.txt Pages : 11 Date : 2013-11-12 Abstract: Many service providers offer "BGP/MPLS IP VPN" service to their customers. Existing IETF standards specify the procedures and protocols that a service provider uses in order to offer this service to customers who have IP unicast and IP multicast traffic in their VPNs. It is also desirable to be able to support customers who have MPLS multicast traffic in their VPNs. This document specifies the procedures and protocol extensions that are needed to support customers who use the Multicast Extensions to Label Distribution Protocol (mLDP) as the control protocol for their MPLS multicast traffic. Existing standards do provide some support for customers who use mLDP, but only under a restrictive set of circumstances. This document generalizes the existing support to include all cases where the customer uses mLDP, without any restrictions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From lucy.yong@huawei.com Tue Nov 12 12:25:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BDE8E21E80F9; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:25:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.836 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.836 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.163, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KHg9FU4g4R7N; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:25:45 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A9AB21F9C6A; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:25:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAE73950; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:25:31 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:24:33 +0000 Received: from DFWEML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.193.5.102) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:25:29 +0000 Received: from DFWEML509-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.11.113]) by dfweml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.193.5.102]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 12:25:24 -0800 From: Lucy yong To: "l2vpn@ietf.org" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "lisp@ietf.org" , "trill@ietf.org" Subject: FW: New Version Notification for draft-yong-nvo3-nve-01.txt Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-yong-nvo3-nve-01.txt Thread-Index: AQHO39Rm8NXMttcE5UeGJuimDcGum5oh/RIggAAMXZA= Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:25:23 +0000 Message-ID: <2691CE0099834E4A9C5044EEC662BB9D452ED194@dfweml509-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.47.136.214] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 20:25:54 -0000 VGhpcyBpcyBmb3IgdGhvc2Ugd2hvIGFyZSBub3QgaW4gTlZPMyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QuIFNpbmNl IHRoZXJlIGFyZSBwb3RlbnRpYWwgdG8gdXNlIGwydnBuLCBsM3ZwbiwgbGlzcCwgdHJpbGwgc29s dXRpb24gZm9yIE5WTzMsIGl0IGlzIGJlbmVmaWNpYWwgdG8gbGV0IHRoZXNlIGNvbW11bml0aWVz IGF3YXJlIG9mIHRoaXMgZHJhZnQuDQoNClNvcnJ5IGlmIHRob3NlIGdldCBtdWx0aXBsZSBvZiB0 aGlzLg0KDQpSZWdhcmRzLA0KTHVjeQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJv bTogTHVjeSB5b25nIA0KU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMTMgMTo0NCBQTQ0K VG86IG52bzNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IEZXOiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24g Zm9yIGRyYWZ0LXlvbmctbnZvMy1udmUtMDEudHh0DQoNCkhlbGxvIE5WTzMgQ29tbXVuaXR5LA0K DQpUaGlzIGlzIGEgbmV3IGRyYWZ0LiBUaGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IHNwZWNpZmllcyBOVkUgZGF0YSBw bGFuZSBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5LiBUaGVzZSBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5IHNwZWNpZmljYXRpb25zIGFy ZSBuZWNlc3NhcnkgZm9yIHRoZSBpbnRlcm9wZXJhYmlsaXR5IGJldHdlZW4gYW4gTlZFIGFuZCBp dHMgYXR0YWNoZWQgdGVuYW50IHN5c3RlbXMgYW5kIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlIE5WRXMuIFRoZSBkYXRh IHBsYW5lIGZ1bmN0aW9uYWxpdHkgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGluIHRoaXMgZG9jdW1lbnQgaXMgaW5kZXBl bmRlbnQgb2YgTlZFIG9yIE5WTzMgY29udHJvbCBwbGFuZSBmdW5jdGlvbmFsaXR5LiBIb3dldmVy IHRoZSBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9ucyBpbiB0aGlzIGRvY3VtZW50IGNhbiBzdXBwb3J0IGFueSBjb250 cm9sIHBsYW5lIHNvbHV0aW9uIGFuZCBhcmUgaGVscGZ1bCBpbiB0aGUgY29udHJvbCBwbGFuZSBw cm90b2NvbCBkZXZlbG9wbWVudC4NCg0KV2UgbG92ZSB0byBoZWFyIHBlb3BsZSBmZWVkYmFja3Mg b24gdGhlIGRyYWZ0LiBTb21lIHNlY3Rpb25zIGluIHRoZSBkcmFmdCBhcmUgbm90IGNvbXBsZXRl ZCB5ZXQgYW5kIHdpbGwgYmUgdXBkYXRlZCBpbiBuZXh0IHZlcnNpb24uDQoNClJlZ2FyZHMsDQpM dWN5DQoNCi0tLS0tT3JpZ2luYWwgTWVzc2FnZS0tLS0tDQpGcm9tOiBpbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNA aWV0Zi5vcmcgW21haWx0bzppbnRlcm5ldC1kcmFmdHNAaWV0Zi5vcmddIA0KU2VudDogVHVlc2Rh eSwgTm92ZW1iZXIgMTIsIDIwMTMgMTI6MjQgUE0NClRvOiBMdWN5IHlvbmcNClN1YmplY3Q6IE5l dyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQteW9uZy1udm8zLW52ZS0wMS50eHQNCg0K DQpBIG5ldyB2ZXJzaW9uIG9mIEktRCwgZHJhZnQteW9uZy1udm8zLW52ZS0wMS50eHQgaGFzIGJl ZW4gc3VjY2Vzc2Z1bGx5IHN1Ym1pdHRlZCBieSBMdWN5IFlvbmcgYW5kIHBvc3RlZCB0byB0aGUg SUVURiByZXBvc2l0b3J5Lg0KDQpGaWxlbmFtZToJIGRyYWZ0LXlvbmctbnZvMy1udmUNClJldmlz aW9uOgkgMDENClRpdGxlOgkJIE5ldHdvcmsgVmlydHVhbGl6YXRpb24gRWRnZSAoTlZFKQ0KQ3Jl YXRpb24gZGF0ZToJIDIwMTMtMTEtMTENCkdyb3VwOgkJIEluZGl2aWR1YWwgU3VibWlzc2lvbg0K TnVtYmVyIG9mIHBhZ2VzOiAxNw0KVVJMOiAgICAgICAgICAgICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3Jn L2ludGVybmV0LWRyYWZ0cy9kcmFmdC15b25nLW52bzMtbnZlLTAxLnR4dA0KU3RhdHVzOiAgICAg ICAgICBodHRwOi8vZGF0YXRyYWNrZXIuaWV0Zi5vcmcvZG9jL2RyYWZ0LXlvbmctbnZvMy1udmUN Ckh0bWxpemVkOiAgICAgICAgaHR0cDovL3Rvb2xzLmlldGYub3JnL2h0bWwvZHJhZnQteW9uZy1u dm8zLW52ZS0wMQ0KRGlmZjogICAgICAgICAgICBodHRwOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL3JmY2RpZmY/ dXJsMj1kcmFmdC15b25nLW52bzMtbnZlLTAxDQoNCkFic3RyYWN0Og0KICAgVGhpcyBkb2N1bWVu dCBzcGVjaWZpZXMgTmV0d29yayBWaXJ0dWFsaXphdGlvbiBFZGdlIChOVkUpIGRhdGEgcGxhbmUN CiAgIGZ1bmN0aW9uYWxpdHkgZm9yIE5ldHdvcmsgVmlydHVhbGl6YXRpb24gT3ZlcmxheXMgKE5W TzMpLiBUaGVzZQ0KICAgZnVuY3Rpb25hbGl0eSBzcGVjaWZpY2F0aW9ucyBhcmUgbmVjZXNzYXJ5 IGZvciB0aGUgaW50ZXJvcGVyYWJpbGl0eQ0KICAgYmV0d2VlbiBhbiBOVkUgYW5kIGl0cyBhdHRh Y2hlZCB0ZW5hbnQgc3lzdGVtcyBhbmQgYmV0d2VlbiB0aGUgTlZFcy4NCg0KDQoNCiAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICANCg0KDQpQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0YWtlIGEgY291 cGxlIG9mIG1pbnV0ZXMgZnJvbSB0aGUgdGltZSBvZiBzdWJtaXNzaW9uIHVudGlsIHRoZSBodG1s aXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQoN ClRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQoNCg== From loa@pi.nu Tue Nov 12 13:59:48 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 248E311E810B; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:59:48 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 0Qn+RDHoi6yV; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:59:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from pipi.pi.nu (pipi.pi.nu [83.168.239.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE7B611E80E6; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:59:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from [192.168.252.96] (107-1-141-74-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net [107.1.141.74]) (using TLSv1 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) (Authenticated sender: loa@pi.nu) by pipi.pi.nu (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 93B2B1802038; Tue, 12 Nov 2013 22:59:37 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <5282A4C9.4080603@pi.nu> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 13:59:37 -0800 From: Loa Andersson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 6.2; WOW64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "mpls@ietf.org" , "ccamp@ietf.org" , "pwe3@ietf.org" , "nvo3@ietf.org" , l2vpn@ietf.org, L3VPN , Vero Zheng , Adrian Farrel , "stbryant@cisco.com" Subject: MPLS VPN Scaling Bof in London Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 21:59:48 -0000 Working Groups, We will run a non-Working Group forming BoF in London to discuss issues around Scaling of MPLS VPNs. Lou Berger and i have accepted to chair this BoF, Vero Zheng will take on the role as list admin and secretary. We plan to kick-off the discussion on a problem statement as soon as we have enough participants on the mailing list We gave a heads up for this BoF in Vancouver - these slides were presented in the RTG Area Open Meeting. http://www.ietf.org/proceedings/88/slides/slides-88-rtgarea-5.pptx We have started to prepare the BoF, and the discussion on how we set it up will take place on a new mailing list: scale-request@ietf.org Please subscribe to this list through: https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/scale /Loa -- Loa Andersson email: loa@mail01.huawei.com Senior MPLS Expert loa@pi.nu Huawei Technologies (consultant) phone: +46 739 81 21 64 From thomas.morin@orange.com Wed Nov 13 00:35:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CDDF821E8099 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 00:35:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.598 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.598 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YAt2ugm1U0AU for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 00:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias92.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 710E021E8082 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 00:35:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.1]) by omfedm10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 357BC264316 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 09:35:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.186]) by omfedm05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 1F3C335C0D0 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 09:35:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cc7e:e40b:42ef:164e]) by PEXCVZYH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 09:35:29 +0100 From: To: L3VPN Subject: IETF 88, draft minutes Thread-Topic: IETF 88, draft minutes Thread-Index: AQHO4EtPcgKW/xXGgEaEosT1V6sm3Q== Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 08:35:29 +0000 Message-ID: <14827_1384331730_528339D2_14827_9067_1_528339D1.20908@orange.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.11.12.214815 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 08:35:36 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpEcmFmdCBtaW51dGVzLCBraW5kbHkgdGFrZW4gYnkgSmVmZiBIYWFzIGFuZCBK ZWZmIFRhbnRzdXJhLCBjYW4gYmUgc2VlbiBhdDoNCg0KaHR0cDovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9wcm9j ZWVkaW5ncy84OC9taW51dGVzL21pbnV0ZXMtODgtbDN2cG4NCg0KUGxlYXNlIGhhdmUgYSBsb29r IGFuZCBzZW5kcyB1cyBhbnkgZmVlZGJhY2sgeW91IGhhdmUuDQoNClRoYW5rcywNCg0KLVRob21h cw0KDQoNCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpDZSBtZXNzYWdlIGV0IHNlcyBwaWVjZXMgam9pbnRlcyBwZXV2ZW50 IGNvbnRlbmlyIGRlcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbnMgY29uZmlkZW50aWVsbGVzIG91IHByaXZpbGVnaWVl cyBldCBuZSBkb2l2ZW50IGRvbmMKcGFzIGV0cmUgZGlmZnVzZXMsIGV4cGxvaXRlcyBvdSBjb3Bp ZXMgc2FucyBhdXRvcmlzYXRpb24uIFNpIHZvdXMgYXZleiByZWN1IGNlIG1lc3NhZ2UgcGFyIGVy cmV1ciwgdmV1aWxsZXogbGUgc2lnbmFsZXIKYSBsJ2V4cGVkaXRldXIgZXQgbGUgZGV0cnVpcmUg YWluc2kgcXVlIGxlcyBwaWVjZXMgam9pbnRlcy4gTGVzIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGVsZWN0cm9uaXF1ZXMg ZXRhbnQgc3VzY2VwdGlibGVzIGQnYWx0ZXJhdGlvbiwKT3JhbmdlIGRlY2xpbmUgdG91dGUgcmVz cG9uc2FiaWxpdGUgc2kgY2UgbWVzc2FnZSBhIGV0ZSBhbHRlcmUsIGRlZm9ybWUgb3UgZmFsc2lm aWUuIE1lcmNpLgoKVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdlIGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4g Y29uZmlkZW50aWFsIG9yIHByaXZpbGVnZWQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdGhhdCBtYXkgYmUgcHJvdGVj dGVkIGJ5IGxhdzsKdGhleSBzaG91bGQgbm90IGJlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCB1c2VkIG9yIGNvcGll ZCB3aXRob3V0IGF1dGhvcmlzYXRpb24uCklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZW1haWwg aW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkgdGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVzc2Fn ZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzLgpBcyBlbWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIE9yYW5nZSBp cyBub3QgbGlhYmxlIGZvciBtZXNzYWdlcyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hhbmdl ZCBvciBmYWxzaWZpZWQuClRoYW5rIHlvdS4KCg== From wwwrun@rfc-editor.org Wed Nov 13 17:52:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DD7E011E8142 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:52:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.447 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.447 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.153, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WR5vyA6d2F9R for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6893F11E80ED for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:52:07 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 15A7275E015; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:42:12 -0800 (PST) To: raggarwa_1@yahoo.com, erosen@cisco.com, thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com, yakov@juniper.net, stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com, thomas.morin@orange.com Subject: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6514 (3801) From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20131114014212.15A7275E015@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:42:12 -0800 (PST) Cc: naikumar@cisco.com, l3vpn@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:52:08 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6514, "BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6514&eid=3801 -------------------------------------- Type: Editorial Reported by: Nagendra Kumar Section: 4.1 Original Text ------------- Usage of Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.2. Corrected Text -------------- Usage of Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.1. Notes ----- Section 9.2 defines Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D operation and is not the right reference to be called in Section 4.1 Instructions: ------------- This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC6514 (draft-ietf-l3vpn-2547bis-mcast-bgp-08) -------------------------------------- Title : BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs Publication Date : February 2012 Author(s) : R. Aggarwal, E. Rosen, T. Morin, Y. Rekhter Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From wwwrun@rfc-editor.org Wed Nov 13 17:52:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 10CF311E8145 for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:52:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -102.449 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-102.449 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.151, BAYES_00=-2.599, NO_RELAYS=-0.001, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ukUJBaFwoBzj for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (unknown [IPv6:2001:1890:123a::1:2f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8844D11E80ED for ; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:52:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id C191875E015; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:43:01 -0800 (PST) To: raggarwa_1@yahoo.com, erosen@cisco.com, thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com, yakov@juniper.net, stbryant@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, martin.vigoureux@alcatel-lucent.com, thomas.morin@orange.com Subject: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6514 (3802) From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20131114014301.C191875E015@rfc-editor.org> Date: Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:43:01 -0800 (PST) Cc: naikumar@cisco.com, l3vpn@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 01:52:57 -0000 The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6514, "BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6514&eid=3802 -------------------------------------- Type: Editorial Reported by: Nagendra Kumar Section: 4.2 Original Text ------------- Usage of Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.1 Corrected Text -------------- Usage of Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.2 Notes ----- Section 9.1 defines Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D operation and is not the right reference to be called in Section 4.2 Instructions: ------------- This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. -------------------------------------- RFC6514 (draft-ietf-l3vpn-2547bis-mcast-bgp-08) -------------------------------------- Title : BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs Publication Date : February 2012 Author(s) : R. Aggarwal, E. Rosen, T. Morin, Y. Rekhter Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From zhangmingui@huawei.com Wed Nov 13 20:57:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 71C1221E81A5; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:57:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.61 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.61 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.389, BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_16=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id a97NuEDesaFG; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:57:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6B31521E81A4; Wed, 13 Nov 2013 20:57:30 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAG45685; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:57:29 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:56:29 +0000 Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:57:28 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.179]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 12:57:23 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JohspVQgAJ79ZA= Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:57:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 04:57:36 -0000 Hi Bruno,=20 My comments inline below. [Mingui] >1) The document does not describe the scaling impact on the core as i= t >creates, in the core IGP, states on a per CE (customers'site) basis. For l= arge SP, >this will represent a significant impact on the IGP and will degrade the I= GP >convergence time. ( o(number of important IGP prefixes to rewrite) ) [Mingui] Here, I need to point out that the vNH is not created per CE. If m= ultiple CEs are connected to an RG, one vNH is enough. When you read the fi= rst sentence of Section 2.1, you will be clear. [Mingui] "A vNH router is created in IGP to represent the set of CEs which = are dual-homed to the same egress PEs in the Service Provider's backbone". [Mingui] Exactly, it's per RG basis. In a real network, the numbers of RGs = is comparable to the number of PEs, so it's similar to the per PE basis cho= ice (the best choice) in draft-minto. >2) > A master PE is elected in the same way the DR is selected (see secti= on 7.3 >of [RFC2328] ), or the DI= S is >selected [ISIS > ]= . >I don't think that this is directly applicable. You may need to elaborate = on this >and specify the corner cases (e.g. CE starts and advertise its routes to b= oth PE >at the same time. Hence both PE believes they are the first one and hence = are >the master.) Also in BGP VPN or IGP there is no advertisement of "Router >Priority". I guess that this can always be specified, but this remains to = be done. [Mingui] That's a valid point. We did define the "Priority" in the "vNH TLV= " in Section 2.3.3 of the companion draft (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft= -zhang-pwe3-iccp-label-sharing-00). We can change the words to fix this inc= onsistence. >IMHO additional elaboration may be required as the nominal PE >may be the nominal because it has advertised a more specific route. Hence = a >look up in the VRF will match the more specific route from the nominal/fai= led PE. >Not sure how a vanilia PE implementation would react. The issue is that wh= en >receiving the packet, the backup PE does not know whether the nominal is d= ead >or not. In contrast to draft-minto for which the PE know whether it's used= as >backup or not, thanks to the contextual label. [Mingui] So you propose the scenario that the backup PE directs packets to = the primary PE since the primary PE advertised a more specific route. This = makes the primary PE be an inevitable point on all forwarding paths to the = CE. Eric ever used "BGP LOCAL_PREF" to compose a similar scenario (http://w= ww.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/l3vpn/current/msg03691.html). [Mingui] For this subtle case, the redundant connection is not utilized in = the first place. If customers prefer resilience to more specific routes, th= e backup PE should not use the primary PE as the next hop.=20 [Mingui] All in all, if customers really want the resilience, those routes = via the primary PE SHOULD NOT be installed in the FIBs of backup PEs.=20 [Mingui] By the way, the scenario you designed may suffer from transient lo= op issue. Imagine that the more specific routes fails on the primary PE, th= e primary PE will resort to the backup PE. At that time, it's probably that= the backup PE is unaware of the failure. It will send packet back to the p= rimary PE. Oops, loop occurs. Following the above "SHOULD NOT be installed"= requirement, such kind of loops can be avoided. >More seriously: >- Draft minto does not need to define a new protocol (ICCP) in order to le= arn the >labels of the backup PE. BGP already provides this. While ICCP is a 79 pag= es >draft, plus 11 for the extension. >- Draft zhang relies on the having the same label on redundant PE. While t= his is >doable, this is a significant change compared to the existing deployed mod= el. >- regarding context label tabel > - From a standardization standpoint, context-specific la= bel >space is already defined in RFC 5331, so nothing new. > - From an implementation standpoint, I agree that this >requires some additional resources in the forwarding plane. But draft mint= o >does not require that all PE support this. This can be performed by a prot= ector >PE if some PE do not support it. [Mingui] If nothing new for protocols, this becomes an implementation issue= . Then, should this be considered in IETF? :-) [Mingui] We do not define ICCP, we make use of it. If we can have a solutio= n happen in purely the control plane, as IETFers, we should be happy. If cu= stomers want this feature, I promise you will see this feature supported by= products in several months. For vendors who have already implemented ICCP,= it can be faster. More importantly, this is a "once for all" effort compar= ed to the redundant forwarding tables.=20 [Mingui] As Robert and I discussed previously, existing deploy model does n= ot prohibit PE to advertise the same label. I don't think this changes the = existing deploy model. >So label table need not be stored repeatedly on RG members. > >#Bruno: agreed. > > >2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P route= rs >(control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of PE >routers. > >#Bruno: It's not easy to deploy as it mandates to update all PE routers, b= oth >nominal and backup. While with draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protectio= n > >the deployment of a single protector PE can fast protect all PE of the AS = with no >change on existing PE. [Mingui] As I explained above, the update to the control plane should be OK= . [Mingui] OK. Let me give an analysis of the draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fa= st-protection. I hope this is constructive when the draft is updated. [Mingui] a. The co-located and hybrid models require configuration, which i= s error prone and increases a management burden to operators. [Mingui] b. The centralized model is not robust. How do you handle the fail= ure of the centralized protector itself? This problem had been proposed for= the "central controller" stuff.=20 [Mingui] c. The delegation of protector is topology dependent. I guess the = number of possible alternative paths held by the protector is a much smalle= r set of all possible alternative paths.=20 [Mingui] d. The centralized protector has to manage the context label assig= nment and maintain multiple forwarding tables for all RGs. I am afraid this= model is not scalable.=20 [Mingui] e. There is a brief description on Fast ReRoute in Section 5.3. Fo= r the "RSVP" choice, it depends on another individual draft [http://tools.i= etf.org/html/draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protection-02]. Does this dr= aft mandates update on P and PE routers? For the "LDP" choice, it's not cle= ar how IGP can find alternative paths (I find the "beyond the scope" words.= ). I think the coverage of alternative paths cannot be very good, especiall= y when the centralized protector is used. >3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no penultimate-hop-po= pping". > >#Bruno: ultimate hop poping is only required for the label associated with= the >context table of the backup PE. This is required to identify the context-s= pecific >label space. This is not an additional argument compared to 1 (context lab= el >table). [Mingui] I agree.=20 Thanks, Mingui From bruno.decraene@orange.com Thu Nov 14 02:12:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C31F221E808D; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 02:12:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.866 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.866 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.218, BAYES_00=-2.599, HELO_EQ_FR=0.35, J_CHICKENPOX_16=0.6, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id rn+sh-ceHyOb; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 02:12:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias243.francetelecom.com [80.12.204.243]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 90CD321E81DD; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 02:12:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from opfeda41.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [10.98.245.92]) by omfeda10.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 24726376BA8; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:12:23 +0100 (CET) Received: from opfeda41.si.francetelecom.fr (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Email Security Appliance) with SMTP id EBFFF821AC_284A25DB; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:13:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from omfeda05.si.francetelecom.fr (omfeda05.si.francetelecom.fr [xx.xx.xx.198]) by opfeda41.si.francetelecom.fr (Sophos Email Appliance) with ESMTP id 9D25A7F4B0_284A25DF; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:13:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.183]) by omfeda05.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 90A73180274; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:12:22 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a441:e6a9:6143:6f0f]) by PEXCVZYH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 11:12:22 +0100 From: To: Mingui Zhang Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JohspVQgAJ79ZCAAEGdEA== Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:12:21 +0000 Message-ID: <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.11.14.23914 Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 10:12:30 -0000 Hi Mingui, Thanks for the answers. You have added pwe in cc. I'm not sure why as I'm following up on your pres= entation during L3 VPN WG on L3 VPN PE protection. My comments inline below [Bruno] >From: >Mingui Zhang >Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 5:57 AM > >Hi Bruno, > >My comments inline below. [Mingui] > >>1) The document does not describe the scaling impact on the core as = it >>creates, in the core IGP, states on a per CE (customers'site) basis. For = large SP, >>this will represent a significant impact on the IGP and will degrade the = IGP >>convergence time. ( o(number of important IGP prefixes to rewrite) ) > >[Mingui] Here, I need to point out that the vNH is not created per CE. If >multiple CEs are connected to an RG, one vNH is enough. When you read the >first sentence of Section 2.1, you will be clear. >[Mingui] "A vNH router is created in IGP to represent the set of CEs which >are dual-homed to the same egress PEs in the Service Provider's backbone". [Bruno] Agreed.=20 >[Mingui] Exactly, it's per RG basis. In a real network, the numbers of RGs >is comparable to the number of PEs, so it's similar to the per PE basis >choice (the best choice) in draft-minto. [Bruno] First, consider that in a "POP" there may be multiple PE, i.e. more= than the 2 required for the dual homing. Let's say 5 PE. The number of RG is flexible, but this also comes with drawbacks. One option is to have a single RG. In this case, you indeed need a single v= NH but you require global label allocation for the perimeter of those 5 PE.= Which roughly divide the available label space by 5. Then if this represen= ts a scaling issue, I guess you can call for bigger labels, e.g. by stackin= g 2 labels. But this requires more lookup work in the forwarding plane. Rou= ghly equivalent to the label context space that you did not want in the fir= st time... Another option is to have one RG per couple of PE. In this case you need 10= vNH (IINM). That's roughly the number of PE but that's still *3 the number= of states in the IGP so I think the document should talk about this. >>2) > A master PE is elected in the same way the DR is selected (see >section 7.3 >>of [RFC2328] ), or the D= IS >is >>selected [ISIS >> = ]. >>I don't think that this is directly applicable. You may need to elaborate >on this >>and specify the corner cases (e.g. CE starts and advertise its routes to >both PE >>at the same time. Hence both PE believes they are the first one and hence >are >>the master.) Also in BGP VPN or IGP there is no advertisement of "Router >>Priority". I guess that this can always be specified, but this remains to >be done. > >[Mingui] That's a valid point. We did define the "Priority" in the "vNH TL= V" >in Section 2.3.3 of the companion draft (http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft- >zhang-pwe3-iccp-label-sharing-00). We can change the words to fix this >inconsistence. [Bruno] Ack.=20 > >>IMHO additional elaboration may be required as the nominal PE >>may be the nominal because it has advertised a more specific route. Hence= a >>look up in the VRF will match the more specific route from the >nominal/failed PE. >>Not sure how a vanilia PE implementation would react. The issue is that >when >>receiving the packet, the backup PE does not know whether the nominal is >dead >>or not. In contrast to draft-minto for which the PE know whether it's used >as >>backup or not, thanks to the contextual label. > >[Mingui] So you propose the scenario that the backup PE directs packets to >the primary PE since the primary PE advertised a more specific route. This >makes the primary PE be an inevitable point on all forwarding paths to the >CE. Eric ever used "BGP LOCAL_PREF" to compose a similar scenario >(http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/l3vpn/current/msg03691.html). > >[Mingui] For this subtle case, the redundant connection is not utilized in >the first place. If customers prefer resilience to more specific routes, t= he >backup PE should not use the primary PE as the next hop. [Bruno] IMO this is a normal routing behavior which needs to be supported. = It doesn't mean that the redundant is not utilized because another more spe= cific prefix could be "attached" to this redundant connection. It probably = means that the CE/customer is using TE to better load balance the flows acr= oss both connections. >[Mingui] All in all, if customers really want the resilience, those routes >via the primary PE SHOULD NOT be installed in the FIBs of backup PEs. [Bruno] Good point. So you probably should add this to the document. >[Mingui] By the way, the scenario you designed may suffer from transient >loop issue. Imagine that the more specific routes fails on the primary PE, >the primary PE will resort to the backup PE. At that time, it's probably >that the backup PE is unaware of the failure. It will send packet back to >the primary PE. Oops, loop occurs. Following the above "SHOULD NOT be >installed" requirement, such kind of loops can be avoided. [Bruno] You are right. I suspect that RFC 4364 implies that a PE should not= reflect back to the core, a VPN packet received from the core. But I haven= 't checked. > >>More seriously: >>- Draft minto does not need to define a new protocol (ICCP) in order to >learn the >>labels of the backup PE. BGP already provides this. While ICCP is a 79 >pages >>draft, plus 11 for the extension. >>- Draft zhang relies on the having the same label on redundant PE. While >this is >>doable, this is a significant change compared to the existing deployed >model. >>- regarding context label tabel >> - From a standardization standpoint, context-specific >label >>space is already defined in RFC 5331, so nothing new. >> - From an implementation standpoint, I agree that this >>requires some additional resources in the forwarding plane. But draft min= to >>does not require that all PE support this. This can be performed by a >protector >>PE if some PE do not support it. > >[Mingui] If nothing new for protocols, this becomes an implementation issu= e. >Then, should this be considered in IETF? :-) [Bruno] That's not a local implementation issue as this is a global behavio= r/feature at the network level. And to allow this behavior we need all impl= ementations to implement this feature. Note that all IETF documents do not describe change of the bits sent on the= wire. Finally, one protocol changed will be required. >[Mingui] We do not define ICCP, we make use of it. [Bruno] idem for context label :-) > If we can have a solution happen in purely the control plane, as IETFers,= we should be happy.=20 [Bruno] Sure. But the solution relies on global VPN labels which is not wha= t is deployed today. So it all depends on whether you will be able to deplo= y such change before. Which will requires all implementations to do it whil= e draft minto has no such dependency. > If customers want this feature, I promise you will see this feature suppo= rted >by products in several months. [Bruno] Ok. But I guess you mean a subset of the products currently deploye= d. There may be multiple vendors/implementations in a given network. And so= me implementations are sometimes even considered as legacy (by the vendor). > For vendors who have already implemented >ICCP, it can be faster. More importantly, this is a "once for all" effort >compared to the redundant forwarding tables. > >[Mingui] As Robert and I discussed previously, existing deploy model does >not prohibit PE to advertise the same label.=20 [Bruno] Agreed. > I don't think this changes the existing deploy model. [Bruno] I think it does. >>So label table need not be stored repeatedly on RG members. >> >>#Bruno: agreed. >> >> >>2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P >routers >>(control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of PE >>routers. >> >>#Bruno: It's not easy to deploy as it mandates to update all PE routers, >both >>nominal and backup. While with draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protecti= on >>02> >>the deployment of a single protector PE can fast protect all PE of the AS >with no >>change on existing PE. > >[Mingui] As I explained above, the update to the control plane should be O= K. > >[Mingui] OK. Let me give an analysis of the draft-minto-2547-egress-node- >fast-protection. I hope this is constructive when the draft is updated. > >[Mingui] a. The co-located and hybrid models require configuration, which = is >error prone and increases a management burden to operators. #Bruno: You need to configure the pairs of PE. But this is a one time confi= guration on a per PE basis when the PE is provisioned. I don't think per VP= N configuration is required as by listening to BGP routes, the backup PE ca= n discover that it needs to back up the nominal one. Your proposition proba= bly need the same configuration effort (configuring RG and vNH) >[Mingui] b. The centralized model is not robust. How do you handle the >failure of the centralized protector itself? This problem had been proposed >for the "central controller" stuff. #Bruno: If one wants to protect the protection one may use a second (redund= ant) protector.=20 However, as the protector is expected to be in use only few seconds per day= at most, I'm not sure people would consider such specific case of double f= ailure. >[Mingui] c. The delegation of protector is topology dependent. I guess the >number of possible alternative paths held by the protector is a much small= er >set of all possible alternative paths. #Bruno: Indeed, currently the location of the protector is topology indepen= dent. Simply because this relies on the existing FRR mechanism used in the = core and this FRR may have coverage limitations (e.g. LFA). There are plans= to remove this limitation. I'm not sure to understand your second point (second sentence). >[Mingui] d. The centralized protector has to manage the context label >assignment and maintain multiple forwarding tables for all RGs. I am afraid >this model is not scalable. #Bruno: Just like a PE does (maintain multiple forwarding tables) so I thin= k this is just as scalable as 4364 VPNs are. Besides, we are talking about = dedicated protector PE so it can be choosen to scale in that direction (jus= t like for VPN BGP RR) >[Mingui] e. There is a brief description on Fast ReRoute in Section 5.3. F= or >the "RSVP" choice, it depends on another individual draft >[http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-minto-2547-egress-node-fast-protection- >02]. Does this draft mandates update on P and PE routers? For the "LDP" >choice, it's not clear how IGP can find alternative paths (I find the >"beyond the scope" words.). I think the coverage of alternative paths cann= ot >be very good, especially when the centralized protector is used. #Bruno: For LDP, cf 2 points above. >>3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no penultimate-hop- >popping". >> >>#Bruno: ultimate hop poping is only required for the label associated with >the >>context table of the backup PE. This is required to identify the context- >specific >>label space. This is not an additional argument compared to 1 (context >label >>table). > >[Mingui] I agree. > >Thanks, >Mingui ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From stbryant@cisco.com Thu Nov 14 05:51:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DCD011E8127 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 05:51:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -110.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-110.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=-0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599, HTML_MESSAGE=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BwbZvErRZX+2 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 05:51:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from ams-iport-2.cisco.com (ams-iport-2.cisco.com [144.254.224.141]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1E6EA11E80E2 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 05:51:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7926; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1384437103; x=1385646703; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to; bh=XL2ivNZfCAL+GnOCzY9b0youAdUN0cdD7O0XFu6qFqY=; b=larbg3BB0UChmQlRhDlhkSS62Sh46jC/wUhYR797tcMDvPbQJE5N6IwG uix7Ls7RrrccFt08QPHEAqSxbNfjZrined0ApblJaggOPMv6XW2vAL+zI WTh0TCrFQzZgjXGt4Y8mANlLRtzrwjNSGOaLU+Ko29wdrXLBPebGvgzwR M=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: Ag8FAN3UhFKQ/khL/2dsb2JhbABagkNEOIkltk+BHxZ0giUBAQEEeBELEQQBAQEJFg8JAwIBAgE9CAYBDAYCAQEXh2YNwD2PZoQxA5gQkgyDKA X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,699,1378857600"; d="scan'208,217";a="88170556" Received: from ams-core-2.cisco.com ([144.254.72.75]) by ams-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 14 Nov 2013 13:51:41 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-2.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAEDpZ4c008315 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:51:37 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id rAEDpYTa005851; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:51:34 GMT Message-ID: <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:51:34 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jakob Heitz , Mingui Zhang , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------070409090404060105090003" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:51:49 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070409090404060105090003 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently allocating labels from their default label table, possibly with different hardware base and range, so there may not be a common label available that can be allocated by both. - Stewart On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: > Several people at the mike asked this question: > How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > > This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important. > If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > label allocators needs to be standardized. > > -- > > Jakob Heitz. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *From:* l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of > Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > *Sent:* Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > *To:* l3vpn@ietf.org > *Subject:* Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" > > Hi, > > As a choice of fast PE protection, > > 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the > complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be > stored repeatedly on RG members. > > > 2. Also, it’s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P > routers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data > plane of PE routers. > > > 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of “no > penultimate-hop-popping”. > > Thanks, > Mingui > -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html --------------070409090404060105090003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be
independently allocating labels from their default
label table, possibly with different hardware base
and range, so there may not be a common label
available that can be allocated by both.

- Stewart

On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote:
Several people at the mike asked this question:
How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label?

This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important.
If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol
between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized.
Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the
label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a
redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant
label allocators needs to be standardized.

--

Jakob Heitz.

From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com]
Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM
To: l3vpn@ietf.org
Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection"

Hi,
 
As a choice of fast PE protection,
 
1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stored repeatedly on RG members.


2. Also, it’s easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P routers (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of PE routers.


3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of “no penultimate-hop-popping”.

 

Thanks,
Mingui



-- 
For corporate legal information go to:

http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html
--------------070409090404060105090003-- From yakov@juniper.net Thu Nov 14 13:28:24 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BEC8411E8135 for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:24 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.107 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.107 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.492, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EYnakIgvyYJM for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co1ehsobe005.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.188]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1A11611E810D for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail90-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.230) by CO1EHSOBE005.bigfish.com (10.243.66.68) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:15 +0000 Received: from mail90-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail90-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E36A280594; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:15 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.11; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -1 X-BigFish: VPS-1(zz1432Izz1f42h2148h208ch1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h2146h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1de098h17326ah172cdfh8275bh8275dh19a27bh1de097h186068hz31h2a8h839h944hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h1ad9h1b0ah1b2fh224fh1fb3h1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1fe8h1ff5h2216h1155h) Received-SPF: softfail (mail90-co1: transitioning domain of juniper.net does not designate 66.129.239.11 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.129.239.11; envelope-from=yakov@juniper.net; helo=P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net ; SAC.jnpr.net ; Received: from mail90-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail90-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1384464493541973_1595; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS004.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.243]) by mail90-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7E5AC18005B; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:13 +0000 (UTC) Received: from P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.11) by CO1EHSMHS004.bigfish.com (10.243.66.14) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:13 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:12 -0800 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id rAELSAL80384; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:10 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-ID: <201311142128.rAELSAL80384@magenta.juniper.net> To: RFC Errata System Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6514 (3801) In-Reply-To: <20131114014212.15A7275E015@rfc-editor.org> References: <20131114014212.15A7275E015@rfc-editor.org> X-MH-In-Reply-To: RFC Errata System message dated "Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:42:12 -0800." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <84802.1384464488.1@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:09 -0800 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Cc: thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com, l3vpn@ietf.org, yakov@juniper.net, naikumar@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, raggarwa_1@yahoo.com, erosen@cisco.com, thomas.morin@orange.com, stbryant@cisco.com X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:24 -0000 Dear RFC Editor, > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6514, > "BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6514&eid=3801 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Editorial > Reported by: Nagendra Kumar > > Section: 4.1 > > Original Text > ------------- > Usage of Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.2. > > > Corrected Text > -------------- > Usage of Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.1. > > > Notes > ----- > Section 9.2 defines Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D operation and is not the right refere nce to be called in Section 4.1 > > Instructions: > ------------- > This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. This errata is correct. Yakov. From yakov@juniper.net Thu Nov 14 13:28:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB1EF21E811D for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:56 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -103.178 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-103.178 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.421, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW=-1, USER_IN_WHITELIST=-100] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id V50RDVLfQd+u for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from co1outboundpool.messaging.microsoft.com (co1ehsobe004.messaging.microsoft.com [216.32.180.187]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9A2B311E810D for ; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:51 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail58-co1-R.bigfish.com (10.243.78.247) by CO1EHSOBE007.bigfish.com (10.243.66.70) with Microsoft SMTP Server id 14.1.225.22; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:50 +0000 Received: from mail58-co1 (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mail58-co1-R.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CC2E064038E; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:66.129.239.11; KIP:(null); UIP:(null); IPV:NLI; H:P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net; RD:none; EFVD:NLI X-SpamScore: -1 X-BigFish: VPS-1(zz1432Izz1f42h2148h208ch1ee6h1de0h1fdah2073h2146h1202h1e76h1d1ah1d2ah1fc6hzz1de098h17326ah172cdfh8275bh8275dh19a27bh1de097h186068hz31h2a8h839h944hf0ah1220h1288h12a5h12a9h12bdh137ah13b6h1441h1504h1537h153bh162dh1631h1758h18e1h1946h19b5h1ad9h1b0ah1b2fh224fh1fb3h1d0ch1d2eh1d3fh1dfeh1dffh1fe8h1ff5h2216h1155h) Received-SPF: softfail (mail58-co1: transitioning domain of juniper.net does not designate 66.129.239.11 as permitted sender) client-ip=66.129.239.11; envelope-from=yakov@juniper.net; helo=P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net ; SAC.jnpr.net ; Received: from mail58-co1 (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by mail58-co1 (MessageSwitch) id 1384464528888289_30871; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from CO1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (unknown [10.243.78.231]) by mail58-co1.bigfish.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35B59C003F; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:48 +0000 (UTC) Received: from P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net (66.129.239.11) by CO1EHSMHS029.bigfish.com (10.243.66.39) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.16.227.3; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:48 +0000 Received: from magenta.juniper.net (172.17.27.123) by P-EMF02-SAC.jnpr.net (172.24.192.21) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.146.0; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:47 -0800 Received: from juniper.net (sapphire.juniper.net [172.17.28.108]) by magenta.juniper.net (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id rAELSkL80642; Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:46 -0800 (PST) (envelope-from yakov@juniper.net) Message-ID: <201311142128.rAELSkL80642@magenta.juniper.net> To: RFC Errata System Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6514 (3802) In-Reply-To: <20131114014301.C191875E015@rfc-editor.org> References: <20131114014301.C191875E015@rfc-editor.org> X-MH-In-Reply-To: RFC Errata System message dated "Wed, 13 Nov 2013 17:43:01 -0800." MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: <84820.1384464526.1@juniper.net> Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 13:28:46 -0800 From: Yakov Rekhter X-OriginatorOrg: juniper.net X-FOPE-CONNECTOR: Id%0$Dn%*$RO%0$TLS%0$FQDN%$TlsDn% Cc: thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com, l3vpn@ietf.org, yakov@juniper.net, naikumar@cisco.com, adrian@olddog.co.uk, raggarwa_1@yahoo.com, erosen@cisco.com, thomas.morin@orange.com, stbryant@cisco.com X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Nov 2013 21:28:57 -0000 Dear RFC Editor, > The following errata report has been submitted for RFC6514, > "BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs". > > -------------------------------------- > You may review the report below and at: > http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6514&eid=3802 > > -------------------------------------- > Type: Editorial > Reported by: Nagendra Kumar > > Section: 4.2 > > Original Text > ------------- > Usage of Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.1 > > Corrected Text > -------------- > Usage of Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.2 > > Notes > ----- > Section 9.1 defines Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D operation and is not the right refere nce to be called in Section 4.2 > > Instructions: > ------------- > This errata is currently posted as "Reported". If necessary, please > use "Reply All" to discuss whether it should be verified or > rejected. When a decision is reached, the verifying party (IESG) > can log in to change the status and edit the report, if necessary. This errata is correct. Yakov. From thomas.morin@orange.com Fri Nov 15 01:44:07 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 781C811E810A for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 01:44:07 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.002 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.002 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_50=0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id McxBj-3IA9Rk for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 01:44:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1477111E8102 for ; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 01:44:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by omfedm12.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 7983C18C839; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:44:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.186]) by omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 4673727C064; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:44:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM13.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::cc7e:e40b:42ef:164e]) by PEXCVZYH01.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 15 Nov 2013 10:44:01 +0100 From: To: Yakov Rekhter , RFC Errata System Subject: Re: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6514 (3802,3801) Thread-Topic: [Editorial Errata Reported] RFC6514 (3802,3801) Thread-Index: AQHO4ec2Cvo11WaxuEySqtHzccUtmw== Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:44:01 +0000 Message-ID: <23900_1384508642_5285ECE2_23900_35_1_5285ECE1.6040401@orange.com> References: <20131114014301.C191875E015@rfc-editor.org> <6912_1384464533_52854095_6912_5696_1_201311142128.rAELSkL80642@magenta.juniper.net> In-Reply-To: <6912_1384464533_52854095_6912_5696_1_201311142128.rAELSkL80642@magenta.juniper.net> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.1] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-ID: <92F64A50B6B86D408CAC462671B88FD8@adroot.infra.ftgroup> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.11.15.22114 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "naikumar@cisco.com" , "adrian@olddog.co.uk" , "raggarwa_1@yahoo.com" , "erosen@cisco.com" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 15 Nov 2013 09:44:07 -0000 RGVhciBhbGwsDQoNClRoZXNlIGVycmF0YXMgYXJlIGluZGVlZCBjb3JyZWN0IGFzIGFuc3dlcmVk IGJ5IFlha292Lg0KDQpOb3RlIHRoYXQgdGhlc2UgYXJlIG9ubHkgKmVkaXRvcmlhbCogKGZpeGVz IGluIGludGVybmFsIHJlZmVyZW5jZXMgdG8gDQpzdWJzZWN0aW9uIG9mIHRoZSBkb2N1bWVudCku DQoNClRoYW5rcywNCg0KLVRob21hcw0KDQoNCg0KMjAxMy0xMS0xNCwgWWFrb3YgUmVraHRlcjoN Cj4NCj4gRGVhciBSRkMgRWRpdG9yLA0KPg0KPj4gVGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBlcnJhdGEgcmVwb3J0 IGhhcyBiZWVuIHN1Ym1pdHRlZCBmb3IgUkZDNjUxNCwNCj4+ICJCR1AgRW5jb2RpbmdzIGFuZCBQ cm9jZWR1cmVzIGZvciBNdWx0aWNhc3QgaW4gTVBMUy9CR1AgSVAgVlBOcyIuDQo+Pg0KPj4gLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4+IFlvdSBtYXkgcmV2aWV3IHRo ZSByZXBvcnQgYmVsb3cgYW5kIGF0Og0KPj4gaHR0cDovL3d3dy5yZmMtZWRpdG9yLm9yZy9lcnJh dGFfc2VhcmNoLnBocD9yZmM9NjUxNCZlaWQ9MzgwMg0KPj4NCj4+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tDQo+PiBUeXBlOiBFZGl0b3JpYWwNCj4+IFJlcG9ydGVkIGJ5 OiBOYWdlbmRyYSBLdW1hciA8bmFpa3VtYXJAY2lzY28uY29tPg0KPj4NCj4+IFNlY3Rpb246IDQu Mg0KPj4NCj4+IE9yaWdpbmFsIFRleHQNCj4+IC0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCj4+IFVzYWdlIG9mIElu dGVyLUFTIEktUE1TSSBBLUQgcm91dGVzIGlzIGRlc2NyaWJlZCBpbiBTZWN0aW9uIDkuMQ0KPj4N Cj4+IENvcnJlY3RlZCBUZXh0DQo+PiAtLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KPj4gVXNhZ2Ugb2YgSW50ZXIt QVMgSS1QTVNJIEEtRCByb3V0ZXMgaXMgZGVzY3JpYmVkIGluIFNlY3Rpb24gOS4yDQo+Pg0KPj4g Tm90ZXMNCj4+IC0tLS0tDQo+PiBTZWN0aW9uIDkuMSBkZWZpbmVzIEludHJhLUFTIEktUE1TSSBB LUQgb3BlcmF0aW9uIGFuZCBpcyBub3QgdGhlIHJpZ2h0IHJlZmVyZQ0KPiBuY2UgdG8gYmUgY2Fs bGVkIGluIFNlY3Rpb24gNC4yDQo+Pg0KPj4gSW5zdHJ1Y3Rpb25zOg0KPj4gLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LQ0KPj4gVGhpcyBlcnJhdGEgaXMgY3VycmVudGx5IHBvc3RlZCBhcyAiUmVwb3J0ZWQiLiBJZiBu ZWNlc3NhcnksIHBsZWFzZQ0KPj4gdXNlICJSZXBseSBBbGwiIHRvIGRpc2N1c3Mgd2hldGhlciBp dCBzaG91bGQgYmUgdmVyaWZpZWQgb3INCj4+IHJlamVjdGVkLiBXaGVuIGEgZGVjaXNpb24gaXMg cmVhY2hlZCwgdGhlIHZlcmlmeWluZyBwYXJ0eSAoSUVTRykNCj4+IGNhbiBsb2cgaW4gdG8gY2hh bmdlIHRoZSBzdGF0dXMgYW5kIGVkaXQgdGhlIHJlcG9ydCwgaWYgbmVjZXNzYXJ5Lg0KPg0KPiBU aGlzIGVycmF0YSBpcyBjb3JyZWN0Lg0KPg0KPiBZYWtvdi4NCj4NCgpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fCgpDZSBtZXNz YWdlIGV0IHNlcyBwaWVjZXMgam9pbnRlcyBwZXV2ZW50IGNvbnRlbmlyIGRlcyBpbmZvcm1hdGlv bnMgY29uZmlkZW50aWVsbGVzIG91IHByaXZpbGVnaWVlcyBldCBuZSBkb2l2ZW50IGRvbmMKcGFz IGV0cmUgZGlmZnVzZXMsIGV4cGxvaXRlcyBvdSBjb3BpZXMgc2FucyBhdXRvcmlzYXRpb24uIFNp IHZvdXMgYXZleiByZWN1IGNlIG1lc3NhZ2UgcGFyIGVycmV1ciwgdmV1aWxsZXogbGUgc2lnbmFs ZXIKYSBsJ2V4cGVkaXRldXIgZXQgbGUgZGV0cnVpcmUgYWluc2kgcXVlIGxlcyBwaWVjZXMgam9p bnRlcy4gTGVzIG1lc3NhZ2VzIGVsZWN0cm9uaXF1ZXMgZXRhbnQgc3VzY2VwdGlibGVzIGQnYWx0 ZXJhdGlvbiwKT3JhbmdlIGRlY2xpbmUgdG91dGUgcmVzcG9uc2FiaWxpdGUgc2kgY2UgbWVzc2Fn ZSBhIGV0ZSBhbHRlcmUsIGRlZm9ybWUgb3UgZmFsc2lmaWUuIE1lcmNpLgoKVGhpcyBtZXNzYWdl IGFuZCBpdHMgYXR0YWNobWVudHMgbWF5IGNvbnRhaW4gY29uZmlkZW50aWFsIG9yIHByaXZpbGVn ZWQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gdGhhdCBtYXkgYmUgcHJvdGVjdGVkIGJ5IGxhdzsKdGhleSBzaG91bGQg bm90IGJlIGRpc3RyaWJ1dGVkLCB1c2VkIG9yIGNvcGllZCB3aXRob3V0IGF1dGhvcmlzYXRpb24u CklmIHlvdSBoYXZlIHJlY2VpdmVkIHRoaXMgZW1haWwgaW4gZXJyb3IsIHBsZWFzZSBub3RpZnkg dGhlIHNlbmRlciBhbmQgZGVsZXRlIHRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzLgpB cyBlbWFpbHMgbWF5IGJlIGFsdGVyZWQsIE9yYW5nZSBpcyBub3QgbGlhYmxlIGZvciBtZXNzYWdl cyB0aGF0IGhhdmUgYmVlbiBtb2RpZmllZCwgY2hhbmdlZCBvciBmYWxzaWZpZWQuClRoYW5rIHlv dS4KCg== From zhangmingui@huawei.com Mon Nov 18 01:32:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 58ED811E81FD; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:32:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -5.999 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-5.999 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, J_CHICKENPOX_13=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id WjLVpJc-1Rln; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:32:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC39511E81E6; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:32:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AXZ72481; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:31:52 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:31:45 +0000 Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:31:48 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:31:42 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO4SIRsyqoYXqpzk6PHbocPpEtZZoqX9ZQ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:31:41 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF3A@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "pwe3@ietf.org" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:32:59 -0000 Hi Bruno, Please find my comments inline below [Mingui]. >You have added pwe in cc. I'm not sure why as I'm following up on your >presentation during L3 VPN WG on L3 VPN PE protection. [Mingui] Sorry that I didn't explain the reason every time. There was a com= panion draft presented in pwe3 for this l3vpn-PE-protection draft. Pwe3 WG = determined they also need know the progress of this l3vpn draft. >[Bruno] First, consider that in a "POP" there may be multiple PE, i.e. mor= e than >the 2 required for the dual homing. Let's say 5 PE. >The number of RG is flexible, but this also comes with drawbacks. >One option is to have a single RG. In this case, you indeed need a single = vNH but >you require global label allocation for the perimeter of those 5 PE. Which= roughly >divide the available label space by 5.=20 [Mingui] That is a misinterpretation. Actually, all 5 PEs share the same la= bel range (e.g., 1~1100) rather than dividing the label space. There is no = scaling issue. >Then if this represents a scaling issue, I >guess you can call for bigger labels, e.g. by stacking 2 labels. But this = requires >more lookup work in the forwarding plane.=20 [Mingui] As explained above, it does not need multiple lookup. Remember, we= do not want to change the forwarding plane. >Roughly equivalent to the label >context space that you did not want in the first time... >Another option is to have one RG per couple of PE. In this case you need 1= 0 vNH >(IINM). That's roughly the number of PE but that's still *3 the number of = states >in the IGP so I think the document should talk about this. [Mingui] On one hand, the above extreme case happens only in theory. The re= ason we scope the document to talk about 2 PEs is that duel homing is the B= CP. Think about the real deployment, I believe most POPs will use two PEs f= or the redundant connection. On the other hand, even if you have 5 PEs in o= ne POP, just put them into one RG. Therefore, the increase of the number of= states in the IGP is not so big. [Mingui] But I agree with your advice that we can spend some words to addre= ss this scaling issue in the document. >>[Mingui] All in all, if customers really want the resilience, those >>routes via the primary PE SHOULD NOT be installed in the FIBs of backup P= Es. > >[Bruno] Good point. So you probably should add this to the document. [Mingui] Sure. >>[Mingui] By the way, the scenario you designed may suffer from >>transient loop issue. Imagine that the more specific routes fails on >>the primary PE, the primary PE will resort to the backup PE. At that >>time, it's probably that the backup PE is unaware of the failure. It >>will send packet back to the primary PE. Oops, loop occurs. Following >>the above "SHOULD NOT be installed" requirement, such kind of loops can b= e >avoided. > >[Bruno] You are right. I suspect that RFC 4364 implies that a PE should no= t >reflect back to the core, a VPN packet received from the core. But I haven= 't >checked. [Mingui] OK. How about the local-repair and label-retention technique? With= that technique, the primary PE may cache the route advertised by the backu= p PE and use it when the route it learns from the CE fails. I guess this is= sue is kind of off the track. We can talk more about it between us two. >[Bruno] Sure. But the solution relies on global VPN labels which is not wh= at is >deployed today. So it all depends on whether you will be able to deploy su= ch >change before. Which will requires all implementations to do it while draf= t minto >has no such dependency. [Mingui] The solution does not rely on *global* VPN labels. They are still = locally assigned in the scope of the RG. >> If customers want this feature, I promise you will see this feature >>supported by products in several months. > >[Bruno] Ok. But I guess you mean a subset of the products currently deploy= ed. >There may be multiple vendors/implementations in a given network. And some >implementations are sometimes even considered as legacy (by the vendor). [Mingui] For those legacy products, operators can update their software. If= bare legacy PEs and label-sharing PEs are interconnected, ICCP connection = will not be established. It allows PEs falls back to the non-redundant conn= ection. For those label-sharing PEs from different vendors, if they impleme= nt the same RFC, they are supposed to be interoperable. >>[Mingui] c. The delegation of protector is topology dependent. I guess th= e >>number of possible alternative paths held by the protector is a much >>smaller set of all possible alternative paths. > >#Bruno: Indeed, currently the location of the protector is topology indepe= ndent. >Simply because this relies on the existing FRR mechanism used in the core = and >this FRR may have coverage limitations (e.g. LFA). There are plans to remo= ve >this limitation. >I'm not sure to understand your second point (second sentence). [Mingui] The central protector is delegated as the PLR, right? This further= reduces the coverage of LFA. As we know, a free LFA can have any router as= the PLR. Thanks, Mingui From zhangmingui@huawei.com Mon Nov 18 01:35:38 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 47EA311E81E6 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:35:38 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.300, BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Lzm9CMU4boGg for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:35:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9FB2F11E81A5 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 01:34:57 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AXZ72845; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:34:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:34:35 +0000 Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:34:38 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:34:30 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Jakob Heitz , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JoaTP2jgAn2WQCABnlXUA== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:34:29 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:35:38 -0000 Hi Stewart, Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label range fo= r sharing. With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup PE, the= primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the intersection of = the unused label space. Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently alloca= ting >labels from their default label table, possibly with different hardware ba= se and >range, so there may not be a common label available that can be allocated = by >both. > >- Stewart > >On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: > > > Several people at the mike asked this question: > How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > > This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important. > If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > label allocators needs to be standardized. > > > > -- > > Jakob Heitz. > >________________________________ > > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of >Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > To: l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > > > > Hi, > > As a choice of fast PE protection, > > 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the >complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stor= ed >repeatedly on RG members. > > > 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers >(control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of PE >routers. > > > 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >penultimate-hop-popping". > > > > Thanks, > Mingui > > > > >-- >For corporate legal information go to: > >http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From eosborne@cisco.com Mon Nov 18 04:52:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8E9D11E83E2 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 04:52:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -10.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-10.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-8] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id aLBrDS702FKT for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 04:52:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com (rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.86.76]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E0CF11E8116 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 04:52:30 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=3189; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1384779150; x=1385988750; h=from:to:subject:date:message-id:references:in-reply-to: content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=5vgYcRpmMcZUxRcNIfnzHPbcg5Gtvhu3zu0adCV1em4=; b=AZ06WcwJthMueszqLBjd5JU9dCpxEh+ZjBFKqj7OlsiXD5/WnraDdNiU RjbMbp3hp0+lxur8cJlYz9gnTV7H1BLOTAEDVwewBSV7/4KoVVHIgfaVj ybLuF1fn8CJ7hPAGYavyGT6MIPQF93tlxjL8GtkZhL9HUUtqmPGL0frk6 k=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFAAcNilKtJXHB/2dsb2JhbABZgwc4U782gRgWdIIlAQEBBDpLBAIBCBEEAQEBChQJBzIUCQgCBAESCBOHZg3BfReOFIEkMwUGgxqBEQOqHYMogio X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,723,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="285805072" Received: from rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com ([173.37.113.193]) by rcdn-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Nov 2013 12:52:30 +0000 Received: from xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com (xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com [173.37.183.75]) by rcdn-core2-6.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAICqTWR009987 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 12:52:30 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.122]) by xhc-rcd-x01.cisco.com ([173.37.183.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 06:52:29 -0600 From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" To: Mingui Zhang , "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" , Jakob Heitz , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO3ANvEbMszSZInEuYe9UixPEyUJolLdAAgAYBgID//9KI0A== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 12:52:29 +0000 Message-ID: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.98.66.68] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 12:52:54 -0000 It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label per VR= F. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making sure you ha= ve the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of primary/backup PEs. eric > -----Original Message----- > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Mingui Zhang > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM > To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" >=20 > Hi Stewart, >=20 > Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label range > for sharing. >=20 > With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup PE, > the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the > intersection of the unused label space. >=20 > Thanks, > Mingui >=20 > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > >Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM > >To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org > >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >protection" > > > >Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently > allocating > >labels from their default label table, possibly with different hardware > base and > >range, so there may not be a common label available that can be > allocated by > >both. > > > >- Stewart > > > >On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: > > > > > > Several people at the mike asked this question: > > How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > > > > This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite > important. > > If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > > between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > > Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > > label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > > redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > > label allocators needs to be standardized. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jakob Heitz. > > > >________________________________ > > > > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of > >Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > > Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > > To: l3vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >protection" > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > As a choice of fast PE protection, > > > > 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce > the > >complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be > stored > >repeatedly on RG members. > > > > > > 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to > P routers > >(control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of > PE > >routers. > > > > > > 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no > >penultimate-hop-popping". > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Mingui > > > > > > > > > >-- > >For corporate legal information go to: > > > >http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From ju1738@att.com Mon Nov 18 05:51:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 35B6611E8196 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:51:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id PKkAES822+68 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:51:12 -0800 (PST) Received: from nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com [209.65.160.93]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id BD5A911E8121 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:51:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) with ESMTP id f4b1a825.69929940.941302.00-595.2598270.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:51:11 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a1b4f754e7815-1cc815e15d3e53c2bc519c978765dcd71296320d Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id e4b1a825.0.941291.00-490.2598235.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:51:11 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a1b4f5699e47a-c76355cbea16037b16bb7a36cafe4588ddb5ca63 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIDp9Uo007060; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:51:09 -0500 Received: from mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.240]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIDowaj006901 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:51:02 -0500 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.93]) by mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:50:37 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.56]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:50:37 -0500 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" , Mingui Zhang , "Stewart Bryant (stbryant)" , Jakob Heitz , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JoaTP2jgAn2WQCABnlXUIAAmWiA//+8UYA= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:50:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.91.76.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=JfYLWz2V c=1 sm=0 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=yKoewWPzswEA:10 a=RKUqKanIpfwA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=6CO8hjaBWl0A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=AUd_NHdVAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=-QGX7_-mWKPglwh9THsA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:] X-AnalysisOut: [10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=JfD0Fch1gWkA:10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=llcmoPyNoWdTpFZc:21 a=KD5WpDo2-1UzqIBv:21] X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:51:18 -0000 That sounds doable ;) -----Original Message----- From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of E= ric Osborne (eosborne) Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label per VR= F. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making sure you ha= ve the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of primary/backup PEs. eric > -----Original Message----- > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Mingui Zhang > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM > To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" >=20 > Hi Stewart, >=20 > Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label range > for sharing. >=20 > With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup PE, > the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the > intersection of the unused label space. >=20 > Thanks, > Mingui >=20 > >-----Original Message----- > >From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > >Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM > >To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org > >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >protection" > > > >Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently > allocating > >labels from their default label table, possibly with different hardware > base and > >range, so there may not be a common label available that can be > allocated by > >both. > > > >- Stewart > > > >On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: > > > > > > Several people at the mike asked this question: > > How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > > > > This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite > important. > > If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > > between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > > Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > > label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > > redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > > label allocators needs to be standardized. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Jakob Heitz. > > > >________________________________ > > > > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of > >Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > > Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > > To: l3vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >protection" > > > > > > > > Hi, > > > > As a choice of fast PE protection, > > > > 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce > the > >complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be > stored > >repeatedly on RG members. > > > > > > 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to > P routers > >(control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of > PE > >routers. > > > > > > 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no > >penultimate-hop-popping". > > > > > > > > Thanks, > > Mingui > > > > > > > > > >-- > >For corporate legal information go to: > > > >http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From ju1738@att.com Mon Nov 18 05:52:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2F88F11E8121 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:52:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id GVQ2gGxiB3yX for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com [209.65.160.93]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8826B11E8183 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 05:51:59 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) with ESMTP id f7b1a825.79d43940.941661.00-503.2599304.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:51:59 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a1b7f0a49a50c-ea15b2d3ab1fdb9537869406ed5a8463f3f8dd47 Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id e7b1a825.0.941657.00-230.2599287.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:51:59 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a1b7f36d9211a-2e12501cead9c8a22c5a1d2c049ce98419af02ca Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIDpv4t007820; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:51:58 -0500 Received: from mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.240]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIDpmsJ007667 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:51:53 -0500 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.61]) by mlpi408.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:51:41 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.56]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.61]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:51:41 -0500 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: Mingui Zhang , "stbryant@cisco.com" , Jakob Heitz , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JoaTP2jgAn2WQCABnlXUIAAVetA Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:51:41 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.91.76.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=JfYLWz2V c=1 sm=0 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=yKoewWPzswEA:10 a=RKUqKanIpfwA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=6CO8hjaBWl0A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=AUd_NHdVAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=A3mWuWIvzLLhfoOnUioA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:] X-AnalysisOut: [10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=JfD0Fch1gWkA:10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=4EIHnPxMdBS2JYM_:21 a=h6PBq9vwpbo8sbpL:21] X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:52:07 -0000 Not realistic.. How about if I run out of capacity on the primary PE?? What= would I do?? Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of M= ingui Zhang Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM To: stbryant@cisco.com; Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Hi Stewart, Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label range fo= r sharing. With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup PE, the= primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the intersection of = the unused label space. Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently alloca= ting >labels from their default label table, possibly with different hardware ba= se and >range, so there may not be a common label available that can be allocated = by >both. > >- Stewart > >On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: > > > Several people at the mike asked this question: > How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > > This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite important. > If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > label allocators needs to be standardized. > > > > -- > > Jakob Heitz. > >________________________________ > > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of >Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > To: l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > > > > Hi, > > As a choice of fast PE protection, > > 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce the >complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be stor= ed >repeatedly on RG members. > > > 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to P rout= ers >(control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of PE >routers. > > > 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >penultimate-hop-popping". > > > > Thanks, > Mingui > > > > >-- >For corporate legal information go to: > >http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Mon Nov 18 08:01:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DC8111E81E6 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:00:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UicnW1QxzOxo for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:00:46 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 84F0F11E8199 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 07:57:45 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-13-528a38e9e78b Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B1.EF.23183.9E83A825; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:57:30 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:57:24 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz To: "UTTARO, JAMES" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5F0WuYQl+BSp+0uQIPBp3p1xuZorVWgA///PmyU= Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:57:23 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrBLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPlO4ri64gg63/hC2a5mxmtHg+6wCr xdn5/hbnns5htLgyt5HNgdXjZf8cRo8pvzeyerQcecvqsWTJT6YAligum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSu jOWXDrIVXFaouDG/ibWB8YdkFyMnh4SAicTbJ1uYIWwxiQv31rN1MXJxCAkcYZT4v/YUlLOc UWLizNksIFVsAjoS3653gXWICKhI9DYtYgcpYhbYxCix5uoSsCJhgWCJ1glXmboY2YGKQiRm yXUxcgBZVhJ3L4aCFLAIqEpcvb0GbAqvgL3EunOnGUFsIYGpzBJLTuSC2JwCURK/V81gA7EZ gW77fmoNE4jNLCAucevJfCaImwUkluw5D3W/qMTLx/9YIWp0JBbs/sQGYWtLLFv4GmqXoMTJ mU9YJjCKzkIyahaSlllIWmYhaVnAyLKKkaO0OLUsN93IYBMjMHaOSbDp7mDc89LyEKM0B4uS OO+Xt85BQgLpiSWp2ampBalF8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhgzdWsWrlh0b+NHXomPdvumspfe/RW5 pOCyzpvuxXrvrsuaFbK4ic7V2/xV+TNTrnreL03eVVnnJ6Ur7bge/u3miwJNrhMabUpCk4Tt 98pWNdcu8twiWlofah7c0NCx68ra/zMcgmv/M7UILroqezhDpf3QxSmZxjdtbgtvcD2/jenO 5xvGK48qsRRnJBpqMRcVJwIAMZb7TWsCAAA= Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:01:01 -0000 "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using the sa= me algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different neighbors, th= ey still won't allocate the same labels. The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other ways. -- Jakob Heitz. On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: > That sounds doable ;) >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of= Eric Osborne (eosborne) > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM > To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE pro= tection" >=20 > It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label per = VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making sure you = have the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of primary/backup PE= s. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > eric >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of Mingui Zhang >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >> protection" >>=20 >> Hi Stewart, >>=20 >> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label range >> for sharing. >>=20 >> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup PE, >> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >> intersection of the unused label space. >>=20 >> Thanks, >> Mingui >>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>>=20 >>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently >> allocating >>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different hardware >> base and >>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >> allocated by >>> both. >>>=20 >>> - Stewart >>>=20 >>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>=20 >>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >> important. >>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>>=20 >>> Jakob Heitz. >>>=20 >>> ________________________________ >>>=20 >>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf of >>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Hi, >>>=20 >>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>=20 >>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not introduce >> the >>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not be >> stored >>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change to >> P routers >>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane of >> PE >>> routers. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> Thanks, >>> Mingui >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> -- >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>=20 >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >=20 From eosborne@cisco.com Mon Nov 18 08:01:59 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2952811E8125 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:01:59 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ig3RuL++mGn5 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:01:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from alln-iport-5.cisco.com (alln-iport-5.cisco.com [173.37.142.92]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2DDC711E81C5 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 07:59:45 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=4982; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1384790385; x=1385999985; h=from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:references: in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding:mime-version; bh=UZI/HKtqlMQMs9Xvt6hp4KA1YMxljZRAo2TjM1Jhw54=; b=OZxadu9VGK7KCZYbFVRQZy5DZaMw/JUrspwC9VhtkWCOYtj0mE5CFLU8 SIfhKfM8w66wDsq5OmjuCJsB+1fnXRODkn49GOAKjT4B/NZUdsYoNtTqy nhjnAx3ma5HvI37OwCB49q3LO7DEfkygBycLNgHm1jdym2JYugD5NV1D5 Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AgsFANw4ilKtJV2a/2dsb2JhbABZgwc4U782gRoWdIIlAQEBBDo/DAQCAQgRBAEBAQoUCQcyFAkIAgQOBQgTh2YNwkYXjhSBJDECBQaDGoERA6odgyiCKg X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,724,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="356674" Received: from rcdn-core-3.cisco.com ([173.37.93.154]) by alln-iport-5.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Nov 2013 15:59:42 +0000 Received: from xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com (xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com [173.36.12.82]) by rcdn-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIFxg35004323 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:59:42 GMT Received: from xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com ([169.254.9.122]) by xhc-aln-x08.cisco.com ([173.36.12.82]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 09:59:41 -0600 From: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" To: Jakob Heitz , "UTTARO, JAMES" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO3ANvEbMszSZInEuYe9UixPEyUJolLdAAgAYBgID//9KI0IAAdQcAgAAjbID//5umcA== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 15:59:41 +0000 Message-ID: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.98.66.68] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:01:59 -0000 Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. I'= m trying to point out that there isn't one. The problem gets harder, too. PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup and so forth. eric > -----Original Message----- > From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM > To: UTTARO, JAMES > Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); > l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" >=20 > "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using the > same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different > neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >=20 > The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other > ways. >=20 > -- > Jakob Heitz. >=20 >=20 > On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >=20 > > That sounds doable ;) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) > > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM > > To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; > l3vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" > > > > It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label > per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making > sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of > primary/backup PEs. > > > > > > > > > > > > eric > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf > >> Of Mingui Zhang > >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM > >> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org > >> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >> protection" > >> > >> Hi Stewart, > >> > >> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label > range > >> for sharing. > >> > >> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup > PE, > >> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the > >> intersection of the unused label space. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Mingui > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > >>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM > >>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast > PE > >>> protection" > >>> > >>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently > >> allocating > >>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different > hardware > >> base and > >>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be > >> allocated by > >>> both. > >>> > >>> - Stewart > >>> > >>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Several people at the mike asked this question: > >>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > >>> > >>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite > >> important. > >>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > >>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > >>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > >>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > >>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > >>> label allocators needs to be standardized. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Jakob Heitz. > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> > >>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf > of > >>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > >>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > >>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org > >>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >>> protection" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> As a choice of fast PE protection, > >>> > >>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not > introduce > >> the > >>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not > be > >> stored > >>> repeatedly on RG members. > >>> > >>> > >>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change > to > >> P routers > >>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane > of > >> PE > >>> routers. > >>> > >>> > >>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no > >>> penultimate-hop-popping". > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Mingui > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> For corporate legal information go to: > >>> > >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > > From ju1738@att.com Mon Nov 18 08:03:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0232411E81A8 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:03:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -6.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-6.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-2.599, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-4] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sQw4VvQSySOA for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:03:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com [209.65.160.94]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8A96611E8185 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:00:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) with ESMTP id 0b93a825.2aaadee2a940.2606275.00-529.7304756.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:00:48 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a39b00ee5f24f-f7f0db3cb7651084a6631fef19eff697f3149c51 Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id ea93a825.0.2606260.00-190.7304665.nbfkord-smmo06.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:00:47 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a39af2406a95d-64c33f4ccd10b92ca44e02b8fc1354c78be5627a Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIG0jBi021140; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:00:46 -0500 Received: from mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.241]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIG0eGF020985 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:00:42 -0500 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.61]) by mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:00:27 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.56]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.61]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:00:26 -0500 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" , Jakob Heitz Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO2+geoImqeN4PM02OPNhQaq9T5JolLdAAgAYBgID//9KI0IAAdQcAgAAjbID//5umcIAAANCQ Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:00:25 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.91.76.245] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=GKm/5JxK c=1 sm=0 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=yKoewWPzswEA:10 a=RKUqKanIpfwA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=6CO8hjaBWl0A:10 a=AUd_NHdVAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=0FD05c-RAAAA:8 a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=tUutklz57KsJcDJSIJ0A:] X-AnalysisOut: [9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=JfD0Fch1gWkA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=] X-AnalysisOut: [f7GxY0FH8QIA:10 a=Hz7IrDYlS0cA:10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10 a=Tk3w] X-AnalysisOut: [uIkVsQC6aUcW:21 a=chzIhRV-JCcLEKZA:21] Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:03:13 -0000 +1 -----Original Message----- From: Eric Osborne (eosborne) [mailto:eosborne@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:00 AM To: Jakob Heitz; UTTARO, JAMES Cc: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. I'= m trying to point out that there isn't one. The problem gets harder, too. PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup and so forth. eric > -----Original Message----- > From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM > To: UTTARO, JAMES > Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); > l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" >=20 > "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using the > same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different > neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >=20 > The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other > ways. >=20 > -- > Jakob Heitz. >=20 >=20 > On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >=20 > > That sounds doable ;) > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf > Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) > > Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM > > To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; > l3vpn@ietf.org > > Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > protection" > > > > It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label > per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making > sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of > primary/backup PEs. > > > > > > > > > > > > eric > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On > Behalf > >> Of Mingui Zhang > >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM > >> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org > >> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >> protection" > >> > >> Hi Stewart, > >> > >> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label > range > >> for sharing. > >> > >> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup > PE, > >> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the > >> intersection of the unused label space. > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Mingui > >> > >>> -----Original Message----- > >>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] > >>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM > >>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org > >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast > PE > >>> protection" > >>> > >>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently > >> allocating > >>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different > hardware > >> base and > >>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be > >> allocated by > >>> both. > >>> > >>> - Stewart > >>> > >>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: > >>> > >>> > >>> Several people at the mike asked this question: > >>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? > >>> > >>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite > >> important. > >>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol > >>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. > >>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the > >>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a > >>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant > >>> label allocators needs to be standardized. > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> > >>> Jakob Heitz. > >>> > >>> ________________________________ > >>> > >>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf > of > >>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] > >>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM > >>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org > >>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE > >>> protection" > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Hi, > >>> > >>> As a choice of fast PE protection, > >>> > >>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not > introduce > >> the > >>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not > be > >> stored > >>> repeatedly on RG members. > >>> > >>> > >>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change > to > >> P routers > >>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane > of > >> PE > >>> routers. > >>> > >>> > >>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no > >>> penultimate-hop-popping". > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> Thanks, > >>> Mingui > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> -- > >>> For corporate legal information go to: > >>> > >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > > From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Mon Nov 18 08:10:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3635711E812D for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:10:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.599 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.599 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[AWL=0.000, BAYES_00=-2.599] Received: from mail.ietf.org ([12.22.58.30]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id CDddctvNz6Lh for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:10:03 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AFD1121F8D62 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 08:05:56 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7fbd8e0000011cc-b1-528a3ada7526 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CB.C2.04556.ADA3A825; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 17:05:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:05:46 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz To: "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5F0WuYQl+BSp+0uQIPBp3p1xuZorVWgA///PmyWAAFR1gP//reE8 Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:05:45 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoO4tq64gg/fHFCya5mxmtHg+6wCr xdn5/hbnns5htLgyt5HNgdXjZf8cRo8pvzeyerQcecvqsWTJT6YAligum5TUnMyy1CJ9uwSu jHXn9rAXnNSqWNd3k7WBcaFSFyMnh4SAicS+SetYIWwxiQv31rN1MXJxCAkcYZTY1r4DylnO KHHr9hlGkCo2AR2Jb9e7mEFsEQEjif7t+5lAipgFljBKzJ6xHGyUsECwROuEq0AJdqCiEIlZ chDlbhJbP7YCzeTgYBFQlVi4IAskzCtgL3H4/w1miFU9LBI7Hl1lB0lwCvhKTFnRAmYzAh33 /dQaJhCbWUBc4taT+UwQRwtILNlznhnCFpV4+fgfK0SNjsSC3Z/YIGxtiWULXzNDLBOUODnz CcsERtFZSEbNQtIyC0nLLCQtCxhZVjFylBanluWmGxluYgRGzzEJNscdjAs+WR5ilOZgURLn /fLWOUhIID2xJDU7NbUgtSi+qDQntfgQIxMHp1QD48HNDt+vMqnaXphsuZ5bdNWhrMC43cyb tjpavJ1pdKX33bzPUoX7Z3HwqJ1Yte/Z0sxyufKrmV8S4tpWVEwLFYlc/bLTTkil4a5TeMIz r7erQl8ZH11nmvnWYd/mxcm6UzYckPXy27jXTfiPl+kv7i1+506VlDH++nqPpy33xTLt6l+G MUqcAkosxRmJhlrMRcWJAAwPd1psAgAA Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.12 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 16:10:09 -0000 We are on the same page. I misinterpreted your :) I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. It's definitely not a generic solution. -- Jakob Heitz. On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" = wrote: > Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. = I'm trying to point out that there isn't one. >=20 > The problem gets harder, too. >=20 > PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup > PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup > PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >=20 > and so forth. >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > eric >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >> To: UTTARO, JAMES >> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); >> l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >> protection" >>=20 >> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using the >> same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>=20 >> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >> ways. >>=20 >> -- >> Jakob Heitz. >>=20 >>=20 >> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>=20 >>> That sounds doable ;) >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >> l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >> protection" >>>=20 >>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label >> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making >> sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of >> primary/backup PEs. >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>>=20 >>> eric >>>=20 >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >> Behalf >>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>> protection" >>>>=20 >>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>=20 >>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >> range >>>> for sharing. >>>>=20 >>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup >> PE, >>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>=20 >>>> Thanks, >>>> Mingui >>>>=20 >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >> PE >>>>> protection" >>>>>=20 >>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently >>>> allocating >>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >> hardware >>>> base and >>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>> allocated by >>>>> both. >>>>>=20 >>>>> - Stewart >>>>>=20 >>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>=20 >>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>> important. >>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>>=20 >>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>=20 >>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>=20 >>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf >> of >>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>>> protection" >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi, >>>>>=20 >>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>=20 >>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >> introduce >>>> the >>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not >> be >>>> stored >>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change >> to >>>> P routers >>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane >> of >>>> PE >>>>> routers. >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Mingui >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> -- >>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>=20 >>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>=20 From stbryant@cisco.com Mon Nov 18 10:41:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1F0B11A1F48 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:41:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.126 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.126 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 80v66iIO8e22 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:41:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801911A1F4F for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:41:43 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=5811; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1384800098; x=1386009698; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=OQ+mpvgsI8oRt7MJIDf981AWmxYZTwDUiQ4bmt+LVA8=; b=a1NNn9ucX8iWqU1IucCbCXU2yFjQ0P71kTVHlpz2nIspOTPzDIxvKSbC LRdso492wYsocwOq0yCPLuJCEDsqMfKRAmjnUX2Ub/VJ578nTy7eh5anK CRff4zp1cg85lh06fAyDX4nLXlPsWRgFe98QxiFOBcK96mt4PTTgE+WAg Q=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,725,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="105665" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 18 Nov 2013 18:41:37 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIIfTsg013282 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:41:31 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id rAIIfSGP023383; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:41:28 GMT Message-ID: <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:41:28 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Jakob Heitz , "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:41:46 -0000 The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may be disjoint. Stewart On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: > We are on the same page. > I misinterpreted your :) > > I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. > It's definitely not a generic solution. > > -- > Jakob Heitz. > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" wrote: > >> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. I'm trying to point out that there isn't one. >> >> The problem gets harder, too. >> >> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >> >> and so forth. >> >> >> >> >> eric >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); >>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>> >>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using the >>> same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>> >>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>> ways. >>> >>> -- >>> Jakob Heitz. >>> >>> >>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>> >>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label >>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making >>> sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of >>> primary/backup PEs. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> eric >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf >>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>>> protection" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>> >>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>> range >>>>> for sharing. >>>>> >>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup >>> PE, >>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Mingui >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>> PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently >>>>> allocating >>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>> hardware >>>>> base and >>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>> allocated by >>>>>> both. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>> >>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>> >>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>> important. >>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf >>> of >>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>> introduce >>>>> the >>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not >>> be >>>>> stored >>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change >>> to >>>>> P routers >>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane >>> of >>>>> PE >>>>>> routers. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Mingui >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > . > -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From ju1738@att.com Mon Nov 18 10:56:15 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B656B1A1F53 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:56:15 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.825 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.825 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id bzDC5LQ85qLN for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:56:14 -0800 (PST) Received: from nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com [209.65.160.93]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B8D3D1A1F56 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 10:56:13 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) with ESMTP id 8c26a825.2aab00a60940.1149606.00-502.3193651.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:56:08 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a62c8697a8872-6f90b5548f298138dc375008dc395f34d96473a2 Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id ff16a825.0.1147248.00-157.3186840.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:52:48 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528a6200353e65e4-7bd72304687d2d3e6303a66c42e64e8d06450893 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIIqlVR009022; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:52:47 -0500 Received: from mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.241]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAIIqacq008826 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:52:46 -0500 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.93]) by mlpi409.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:52:18 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.56]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9D.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.93]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 13:52:17 -0500 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Jakob Heitz , "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5I9NkbnJcl/IikSOw406AEsRSQ== Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:52:17 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.115.9] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=JfYLWz2V c=1 sm=0 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=JvbjcI7rmGYA:10 a=RKUqKanIpfwA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=6CO8hjaBWl0A:10 a=AUd_NHdVAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=0FD05c-RAAAA:8 a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=NBRh1pdRjHhjUT0I7yIA:] X-AnalysisOut: [9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=JfD0Fch1gWkA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=] X-AnalysisOut: [f7GxY0FH8QIA:10 a=Hz7IrDYlS0cA:10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10 a=vsbl] X-AnalysisOut: [RkLLT_xJf3w1:21 a=EV56trog41g8GOnQ:21] Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 18:56:15 -0000 IMO solutions need to be deployable.. So, I would like to see some text des= cribing how this solution would work in a real network. Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com]=20 Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:41 PM To: Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may be disjoint. Stewart On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: > We are on the same page. > I misinterpreted your :) > > I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. > It's definitely not a generic solution. > > -- > Jakob Heitz. > > > On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" wrote: > >> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. = I'm trying to point out that there isn't one. >> >> The problem gets harder, too. >> >> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >> >> and so forth. >> >> >> >> >> eric >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); >>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>> >>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using th= e >>> same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>> >>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>> ways. >>> >>> -- >>> Jakob Heitz. >>> >>> >>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>> >>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf >>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label >>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making >>> sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of >>> primary/backup PEs. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> eric >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf >>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>>> protection" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>> >>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>> range >>>>> for sharing. >>>>> >>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup >>> PE, >>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Mingui >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>> PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be independently >>>>> allocating >>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>> hardware >>>>> base and >>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>> allocated by >>>>>> both. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>> >>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>> >>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>> important. >>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf >>> of >>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>> introduce >>>>> the >>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not >>> be >>>>> stored >>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change >>> to >>>>> P routers >>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data plane >>> of >>>>> PE >>>>>> routers. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Mingui >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > . > --=20 For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From rraszuk@gmail.com Mon Nov 18 11:25:30 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4FD201AE0B2 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:25:30 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 0.622 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=0.622 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id y8CfJEtoRx0m for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:25:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x231.google.com (mail-ie0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEDC61AE0B1 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:25:28 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id tp5so2144311ieb.8 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:25:23 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:date:message-id:subject:from:to:cc:content-type; bh=KLFqHO98967r11IF1LQQ0OcrKlPwRsPXFQ3dgoOKd9c=; b=Qk5C6M2rRlCViiBgL7C7PpwhUSFwkzQTGTCRr96wCXsdZmRYDuWGd0kYYitg66ZQe3 cw5xk1cNNx0gNNKxW8lzHY67ABzpTe3eHKk02/57r33j8uRMDLI7jg++o2qCDVqHt4rD UW3VGN1TSNHb7sQ8MeyjYj6r8FPMxJ43iSlMVVBx3OZnwVQr7CA8KLC0s49FY6pN9oXY jg8N1AUh3GwgxF5f971/WxQD/EHR9TO//slNEPp+4AN92yOn1q0hhc+0KYRBO/AXd9wm gQYQt6yDDPV2ibtpXUEna4HVs10bNRNpUlyQLP6Rf5rE21NYtKOAYaMINwio5T/1a21A 7ylQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.117.103 with SMTP id kd7mr15889864igb.4.1384802723064; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:25:23 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 11:25:23 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 20:25:23 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: v7XD7TB_9AG9kvOW22TknNGDLs8 Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: "l3vpn@ietf.org" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Nov 2013 19:25:30 -0000 Indeed. To summarize my former comments: - Proposal works only with per VRF label not per CE and per prefix .. Last two label allocation modes are the most popular today - not sure if all operators are ready to switch to per vrf label. - Allocation has to be either manual - configuration (just like RT configuration) assuming multi-homed sites are connected to those PEs which do share common label space or - PE must ask (or be told) some form of central controller (PCE like) which label to allocate for a given VPN. To summarize I think we already have solution to this problem space with using context labels (provides 1:N PE protection scheme which this proposal does not) hence I would rather not continue further with this proposal. Interested vendors can still provide a local option to configure per vrf VPN label, but this is rather not something L3VPN or IETF should standardize or ack. If there is protocol work required to communicate labels from central allocation pool (both push and pool model) I would rather suggest this to be written as a separate spec and discussed in I2RS WG. Applicability of such protocol may be perhaps useful beyond this particular PE protection application. Best, R. On Mon, Nov 18, 2013 at 7:52 PM, UTTARO, JAMES wrote: > IMO solutions need to be deployable.. So, I would like to see some text describing how this solution would work in a real network. > > Jim Uttaro From zhangmingui@huawei.com Mon Nov 18 21:04:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 210821AE0BA for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:04:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.726 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.726 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cpzwQm2IE9J5 for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:04:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DA341AEB6E for ; Mon, 18 Nov 2013 21:04:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AYB28151; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 05:04:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 05:04:28 +0000 Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 05:04:33 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 13:04:28 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: Jakob Heitz , "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5F0oZNr1pQQqIEaFdHsYJvmkB5oqe3oAgAAjbICAAACkgIAAAbKAgAE2wPA= Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 05:04:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336843A4@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 05:04:46 -0000 Hi, In a real network, one PE cannot be freely interconnected with any PE in an= y geographic position to form an RG. In most cases, one PE is connected to = the left and right PEs to form the RG. The example you propose is complex e= nough. For your example, let RG1 =3D (PE1, PE2), RG2=3D(PE2, PE3), RG3=3D(P= E1, PE3). Then each label is shared for each VPN in the scope of each RG. Firstly, statically allocating can always serve as a choice. The second way is to let both PEs in an RG to have the "same algorithm". Op= erators reserve a label range for each RG and use a _hashing_ algorithm to = allocate each label for each VPN in each RG. This hashing algorithm can be = designed independent of the router boot time. Each PE sort the VPNs and the= n assign labels one by one according to the hashing algorithm.=20 Let me introduce the third way: the "synchronization" method. In each RG, o= ne master PE will be elected according to their priorities. The master PE m= andates the range and also assign the VPN route label for each VPN in this = RG. The backup PE acks the assignment. They can also do periodic synchroniz= ation of their label assignment to cope with exceptions.=20 Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 12:06 AM >To: Eric Osborne (eosborne) >Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >We are on the same page. >I misinterpreted your :) > >I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. >It's definitely not a generic solution. > >-- >Jakob Heitz. > > >On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" >wrote: > >> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. = I'm >trying to point out that there isn't one. >> >> The problem gets harder, too. >> >> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >> >> and so forth. >> >> >> >> >> eric >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); >>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>> >>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using >>> the same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>> >>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>> ways. >>> >>> -- >>> Jakob Heitz. >>> >>> >>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>> >>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf >>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>> PE >>> protection" >>>> >>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same label >>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or making >>> sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every pair of >>> primary/backup PEs. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> eric >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>> Behalf >>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>> PE protection" >>>>> >>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>> >>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>> range >>>>> for sharing. >>>>> >>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and backup >>> PE, >>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> Mingui >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>> PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be >>>>>> independently >>>>> allocating >>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>> hardware >>>>> base and >>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>> allocated by >>>>>> both. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>> >>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>> >>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>> important. >>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>> >>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on behalf >>> of >>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi, >>>>>> >>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>> >>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>> introduce >>>>> the >>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need not >>> be >>>>> stored >>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any change >>> to >>>>> P routers >>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data >>>>>> plane >>> of >>>>> PE >>>>>> routers. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Mingui >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >>>> From zhangmingui@huawei.com Tue Nov 19 02:01:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1DC931AD958 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 02:01:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.726 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.726 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AEiV76BTmxFJ for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 02:01:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 69C511AD944 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 02:01:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAL55615; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:01:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:01:22 +0000 Received: from NKGEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.39) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:01:13 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:01:05 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Jakob Heitz , "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5I3T0VAcgGhjAEeT/uX7AMAJ/posNSEA Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:01:05 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 10:01:51 -0000 Hi Stewart, >The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. I am not sure I've got the point. Are your still talking about the label al= location issue? Could you please explain it more specifically?=20 >If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may b= e >disjoint. PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then it= becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:41 AM >To: Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) >Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. > >If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may b= e >disjoint. > >Stewart > >On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: >> We are on the same page. >> I misinterpreted your :) >> >> I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. >> It's definitely not a generic solution. >> >> -- >> Jakob Heitz. >> >> >> On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" > wrote: >> >>> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution.= I'm >trying to point out that there isn't one. >>> >>> The problem gets harder, too. >>> >>> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >>> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >>> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >>> >>> and so forth. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> eric >>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant >>>> (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>> PE protection" >>>> >>>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using >>>> the same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>>> >>>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>>> ways. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>>> >>>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>> PE >>>> protection" >>>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same >>>>> label >>>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or >>>> making sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every >>>> pair of primary/backup PEs. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> eric >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>> >>>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>>> range >>>>>> for sharing. >>>>>> >>>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and >>>>>> backup >>>> PE, >>>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>> Mingui >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>> fast >>>> PE >>>>>>> protection" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be >>>>>>> independently >>>>>> allocating >>>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>>> hardware >>>>>> base and >>>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>>> allocated by >>>>>>> both. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>>> >>>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>>> important. >>>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on >>>>>>> behalf >>>> of >>>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>>> introduce >>>>>> the >>>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need >>>>>>> not >>>> be >>>>>> stored >>>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any >>>>>>> change >>>> to >>>>>> P routers >>>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data >>>>>>> plane >>>> of >>>>>> PE >>>>>>> routers. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.htm >>>>>>> l >> . >> > > >-- >For corporate legal information go to: > >http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From internet-drafts@ietf.org Tue Nov 19 03:12:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC8B41ADEBB; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:12:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id TjaJ4y5fTHYi; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:12:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7A8951ADEAE; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:12:09 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3vpn-mldp-vrf-in-band-signaling-02.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.83.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20131119111209.12919.64925.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:12:09 -0800 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:12:11 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working = Group of the IETF. Title : Multipoint Label Distribution Protocol In-Band Signaling= in a VRF Context Author(s) : IJsbrand Wijnands Paul Hitchen Nicolai Leymann Wim Henderickx Arkadiy Gulko Jeff Tantsura Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-mldp-vrf-in-band-signaling-02.txt Pages : 13 Date : 2013-11-19 Abstract: An IP Multicast Distribution Tree (MDT) may traverse both label switching (i.e. - Multi-Protocol Label Switching, or MPLS) and non- label switching regions of a network. Typically the MDT begins and ends in non-MPLS regions, but travels through an MPLS region. In such cases, it can be useful to begin building the MDT as a pure IP MDT, then convert it to an MPLS Multipoint Label Switched Path (MP- LSP) when it enters an MPLS-enabled region, and then convert it back to a pure IP MDT when it enters a non-MPLS-enabled region. Other documents specify the procedures for building such a hybrid MDT, using Protocol Independent Multicast (PIM) in the non-MPLS region of the network, and using Multipoint Extensions to Label Distribution Protocol (mLDP) in the MPLS region. This document extends those procedures to handle the case where the link connecting the two regions is a "Virtual Routing and Forwarding Table" (VRF) link, as defined in the "BGP IP/MPLS VPN" specifications. However, this document is primarily aimed at particular use cases where VRFs are used to support multicast applications other than Multicast VPN. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mldp-vrf-in-band-signaling There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mldp-vrf-in-band-signaling-02 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3vpn-mldp-vrf-in-band-signal= ing-02 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From rraszuk@gmail.com Tue Nov 19 03:30:47 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1BA9D1ADEDC for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:30:47 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id dkfgHzSSdAk2 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x232.google.com (mail-ie0-x232.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::232]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C58C21ADED5 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:30:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f178.google.com with SMTP id lx4so2794596iec.9 for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:30:38 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Foj86DFYMbLuJzVBGO169ggIP/izyZ8lfwUDGNJ98Ak=; b=IbnvnfQ84GbwQnurslRvsvtpV90bS99vnj69DhkgGpgVyTglLdBC3nxd2a+5/9Jm1c EnmSvX9h6bK0+22jdN7oLciWEsYQ/0GzdxhALpgUUKdz4go6jMYpFghF2fXrOoXOC+QJ AYBwHeXVxaBgmJsElPt/2glgjP4BOglyCE5edKZXHk18wzeJnpMbPDAwq4Q6hSz9haxn DvD38R/G5M6qNsHnOMVevQBvJvpaeTjfgQyLw0U2qq1HYv/ZUu0+aPUqX80PNUTlWHFt tkdd6eubHyOzky/Z0gM8SCEAQ7B4z75MuM9TG50M6/7NDMylVm8ZknUIklzEYjepU9MN 5Aag== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.117.103 with SMTP id kd7mr18451437igb.4.1384860638657; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:30:38 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 03:30:38 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 12:30:38 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: ZerzABHOG5RosaZsUZ5Y1WG2MdA Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: Mingui Zhang Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 11:30:47 -0000 Hi Mingui, Imagine PE implementation that has no option to configure label ranges for LDP, SR, PE protection, RSVP-TE or that even if it does it's reconfiguration across entire domain to find common block across required set of devices is not possible. That is what Stewart referred to as "SPRING lesson" and the solution to play with block + index hack. What do you do then with your scheme ? Ask operator to remove such PEs from the network ? Best, R. On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Mingui Zhang wrote: > Hi Stewart, > >>The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. > > I am not sure I've got the point. Are your still talking about the label allocation issue? Could you please explain it more specifically? > >>If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may be >>disjoint. > > PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then it becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. > > Thanks, > Mingui > >>-----Original Message----- >>From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:41 AM >>To: Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>protection" >> >>The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >> >>If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may be >>disjoint. >> >>Stewart >> >>On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>> We are on the same page. >>> I misinterpreted your :) >>> >>> I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. >>> It's definitely not a generic solution. >>> >>> -- >>> Jakob Heitz. >>> >>> >>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" >> wrote: >>> >>>> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. I'm >>trying to point out that there isn't one. >>>> >>>> The problem gets harder, too. >>>> >>>> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >>>> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >>>> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >>>> >>>> and so forth. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> eric >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>>>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>>>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant >>>>> (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>> PE protection" >>>>> >>>>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using >>>>> the same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>>>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>>>> >>>>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>>>> ways. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>>>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>> PE >>>>> protection" >>>>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same >>>>>> label >>>>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or >>>>> making sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every >>>>> pair of primary/backup PEs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> eric >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>>>> range >>>>>>> for sharing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and >>>>>>> backup >>>>> PE, >>>>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>>> fast >>>>> PE >>>>>>>> protection" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be >>>>>>>> independently >>>>>>> allocating >>>>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>>>> hardware >>>>>>> base and >>>>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>>>> allocated by >>>>>>>> both. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on >>>>>>>> behalf >>>>> of >>>>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>>>> introduce >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need >>>>>>>> not >>>>> be >>>>>>> stored >>>>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any >>>>>>>> change >>>>> to >>>>>>> P routers >>>>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data >>>>>>>> plane >>>>> of >>>>>>> PE >>>>>>>> routers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.htm >>>>>>>> l >>> . >>> >> >> >>-- >>For corporate legal information go to: >> >>http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > From jeff.tantsura@ericsson.com Tue Nov 19 09:22:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 96F9F1AE0FF for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 09:22:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id C8zk0GOompiv for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 09:22:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CD61A1AE10B for ; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 09:22:03 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-06-528b9e324d2e Received: from EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.90]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 60.94.23183.23E9B825; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 18:21:55 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC006.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.90]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 19 Nov 2013 12:21:53 -0500 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Robert Raszuk , Mingui Zhang Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5JENGZmP7EDEWEe4cL+XAHsUtJospzSAgAAZBQD//9wEAA== Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 17:21:52 +0000 Message-ID: <60DEDD93F5E54B4AB55647B8B6C748399CD60D@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.5.121010 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFmpgkeLIzCtJLcpLzFFi42KZXLonStd4XneQQe8DJovnsw6wWpyd72/R tLCJ2eLc0zmMFlfmNrI5sHq87J/D6DHl90ZWj5Yjb1k9liz5yeSxe+MCpgDWKC6blNSczLLU In27BK6Mbcd6mAqmOVdM23uFtYHxm1kXIyeHhICJxOovf9khbDGJC/fWs4HYQgJHGCUe3lPq YuQCspczSnxd8p4JJMEmYCDx/9txFhBbRMBH4vzOB6xdjBwczAIlEsv/1IKEhQWCJe6tOcYK URIi8f3gS0YI20li659JYPNZBFQlXr6azgzSyivgLbHsVhFImFMgUGLiik1gmxiBzvl+ag2Y zSwgLnHryXwmiDMFJJbsOc8MYYtKvHz8D2yVqICeRNuxM1CvKEt8n/OIBaJXR2LB7k9sELa1 xKbXaxghbG2JZQtfg83hFRCUODnzCcsERvFZSNbNQtI+C0n7LCTts5C0L2BkXcXIUVqcWpab bmSwiREYi8ck2HR3MO55aXmIUZqDRUmc98tb5yAhgfTEktTs1NSC1KL4otKc1OJDjEwcnFIN jD6u+rVf3mbfYQ/rO+J+ZGLEfG6fTbd0/3+sD+LwXD9/7RTrTWfT932LiKtvv2O28MTN4+mX vh2pCzSUe37HJnR/WOzMDa4b5tnNY3q4Tm37H22eDH+jus21QXsey0X4r31rJnl17bwucV2+ WC3Zzqt3GWsX/rxz//sX/l9O33c8YHp33lzy6SQlluKMREMt5qLiRACJK78xkwIAAA== Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2013 17:22:06 -0000 Hi, Completely agree with Robert, add to this - operation folks use label ranges for troubleshooting, i.e. They (their tools) know what label range to look for is there is a particular issue with LDP or RSVP, etc so changing the range is not so trivial Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: "robert@raszuk.net" Date: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 3:30 AM To: Mingui Zhang Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "stbryant@cisco.com" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" >Hi Mingui, > >Imagine PE implementation that has no option to configure label ranges >for LDP, SR, PE protection, RSVP-TE or that even if it does it's >reconfiguration across entire domain to find common block across >required set of devices is not possible. That is what Stewart referred >to as "SPRING lesson" and the solution to play with block + index >hack. > >What do you do then with your scheme ? > >Ask operator to remove such PEs from the network ? > >Best, >R. > > >On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Mingui Zhang >wrote: >> Hi Stewart, >> >>>The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >> >> I am not sure I've got the point. Are your still talking about the >>label allocation issue? Could you please explain it more specifically? >> >>>If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w >>>may be >>>disjoint. >> >> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. >>Then it becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >> >> Thanks, >> Mingui >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:41 AM >>>To: Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>protection" >>> >>>The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >>> >>>If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w >>>may be >>>disjoint. >>> >>>Stewart >>> >>>On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>> We are on the same page. >>>> I misinterpreted your :) >>>> >>>> I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. >>>> It's definitely not a generic solution. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable >>>>>solution. I'm >>>trying to point out that there isn't one. >>>>> >>>>> The problem gets harder, too. >>>>> >>>>> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >>>>> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >>>>> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >>>>> >>>>> and so forth. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> eric >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>>>>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>>>>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant >>>>>> (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using >>>>>> the same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>>>>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>>>>> >>>>>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>>>>> ways. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>>>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>>>>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>> PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same >>>>>>> label >>>>>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or >>>>>> making sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every >>>>>> pair of primary/backup PEs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> eric >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>>>>> range >>>>>>>> for sharing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and >>>>>>>> backup >>>>>> PE, >>>>>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>>>> fast >>>>>> PE >>>>>>>>> protection" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be >>>>>>>>> independently >>>>>>>> allocating >>>>>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>>>>> hardware >>>>>>>> base and >>>>>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>>>>> allocated by >>>>>>>>> both. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on >>>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>>>>> introduce >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>> be >>>>>>>> stored >>>>>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> P routers >>>>>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data >>>>>>>>> plane >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> PE >>>>>>>>> routers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.htm >>>>>>>>> l >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>For corporate legal information go to: >>> >>>http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >> From zhangmingui@huawei.com Wed Nov 20 18:20:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EBD571A1F3F for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:20:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.726 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.726 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Dx239A-JCvm5 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:20:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D35201A802B for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:20:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAN71378; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:20:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:19:07 +0000 Received: from NKGEML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.37) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:19:17 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:19:09 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: Robert Raszuk Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5I3T0VAcgGhjAEeT/uX7AMAJ/posNSEA//+xMQCAAgxiAA== Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:19:08 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336869D8@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:20:13 -0000 Hi Robert, >it's reconfiguration across >entire domain to find common block across required set of devices is not >possible. That's the misinterpretation. The proposal never requires a common block in= the _entire_ domain. The common block is required only in the scope of an RG. Imagine the real u= se cases in IPRAN and MAN, most likely one POP will deploy only two PEs for= each RG. Think about other redundant connection techniques, e.g., MC-LAG, = two PEs in an RG are even from one vendor in most cases. Anyway, I think it's able to reserve a common block for just two PEs.=20 >Ask operator to remove such PEs from the network ? Certainly not, the proposal is designed to be incrementally deployable in t= he network. The trick is confined in the RG. Other P and PE routers are una= ware of the change. I think you didn't follow all the comments. Let me explain the most rigid i= ncremental deployment scenario: a legacy PE and a label sharing PE form an = RG. Since the proposal does not require data plane update on PE routers in = the RG. Operators need only update the software of the legacy PE.=20 Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert >Raszuk >Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 7:31 PM >To: Mingui Zhang >Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne); UTTARO, JAME= S; >l3vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >Hi Mingui, > >Imagine PE implementation that has no option to configure label ranges for= LDP, >SR, PE protection, RSVP-TE or that even if it does it's reconfiguration ac= ross >entire domain to find common block across required set of devices is not >possible. That is what Stewart referred to as "SPRING lesson" and the solu= tion >to play with block + index hack. > >What do you do then with your scheme ? > >Ask operator to remove such PEs from the network ? > >Best, >R. > > >On Tue, Nov 19, 2013 at 11:01 AM, Mingui Zhang >wrote: >> Hi Stewart, >> >>>The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >> >> I am not sure I've got the point. Are your still talking about the label= allocation >issue? Could you please explain it more specifically? >> >>>If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w >>>may be disjoint. >> >> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then= it >becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >> >> Thanks, >> Mingui >> >>>-----Original Message----- >>>From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:41 AM >>>To: Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>>protection" >>> >>>The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >>> >>>If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w >>>may be disjoint. >>> >>>Stewart >>> >>>On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>> We are on the same page. >>>> I misinterpreted your :) >>>> >>>> I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. >>>> It's definitely not a generic solution. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" >>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable >>>>> solution. I'm >>>trying to point out that there isn't one. >>>>> >>>>> The problem gets harder, too. >>>>> >>>>> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >>>>> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >>>>> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >>>>> >>>>> and so forth. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> eric >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>>>>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>>>>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant >>>>>> (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers >>>>>> using the same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with >>>>>> different neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>>>>> >>>>>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in >>>>>> other ways. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" >wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>>>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>>>>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>> fast PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same >>>>>>> label >>>>>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or >>>>>> making sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every >>>>>> pair of primary/backup PEs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> eric >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>>> fast PE protection" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same >>>>>>>> label >>>>>> range >>>>>>>> for sharing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and >>>>>>>> backup >>>>>> PE, >>>>>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>>>> fast >>>>>> PE >>>>>>>>> protection" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be >>>>>>>>> independently >>>>>>>> allocating >>>>>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>>>>> hardware >>>>>>>> base and >>>>>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>>>>> allocated by >>>>>>>>> both. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on >>>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>>>> fast PE protection" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>>>>> introduce >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>> be >>>>>>>> stored >>>>>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> P routers >>>>>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data >>>>>>>>> plane >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> PE >>>>>>>>> routers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.h >>>>>>>>> tm >>>>>>>>> l >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> >>>-- >>>For corporate legal information go to: >>> >>>http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >> From lizhenbin@huawei.com Wed Nov 20 18:22:01 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 39C231ADFA9 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:22:01 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.563 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id uHIlFUT35AJX for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 487C91ADF87 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 18:21:58 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAN71562; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:21:50 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:21:39 +0000 Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:21:49 +0000 Received: from NKGEML506-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.3.72]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:21:40 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Mingui Zhang , "stbryant@cisco.com" , Jakob Heitz , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogV2h5IHdlIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRoZSBtZXRob2Qgb2YgImxhYmVsIHNo?= =?gb2312?Q?aring_for_fast_PE=09protection"?= Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO3ANwfo46SQrvy0meF2QzgZz4npokQx8AgAYBf4CABLxnIA== Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:21:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0319@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> 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nkgeml406-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 10:57:20 +0800 From: Lizhenbin To: Jakob Heitz , "UTTARO, JAMES" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogV2h5IHdlIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRoZSBtZXRob2Qgb2YgImxhYmVsIHNo?= =?gb2312?Q?aring_for_fast_PE=09protection"?= Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO3ANwfo46SQrvy0meF2QzgZz4npokQx8AgAYBf4CAADdSgIAAED0AgAAjbICABFqrUA== Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 02:57:20 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0352@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: 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Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0156A1AE008 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:09:08 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.563 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FEwUtNtrmjb2 for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:09:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 858F01ADF7D for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:09:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with 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21 Nov 2013 03:08:48 +0000 Message-ID: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E036C@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.76.77] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B820D1AE08E for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:52:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.563 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.563 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d2gQHYW1POZb for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:52:35 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 766FB1AE08B for ; Wed, 20 Nov 2013 19:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAN77903; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 03:52:25 +0000 (GMT) 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DQo+IFRoaXMgbWVzc2FnZSBhbmQgaXRzIGF0dGFjaG1lbnRzIG1heSBjb250YWluIGNvbmZpZGVu dGlhbCBvciBwcml2aWxlZ2VkDQo+IGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRoYXQgbWF5IGJlIHByb3RlY3RlZCBi eSBsYXc7IHRoZXkgc2hvdWxkIG5vdCBiZSBkaXN0cmlidXRlZCwgdXNlZA0KPiBvciBjb3BpZWQg d2l0aG91dCBhdXRob3Jpc2F0aW9uLg0KPiBJZiB5b3UgaGF2ZSByZWNlaXZlZCB0aGlzIGVtYWls IGluIGVycm9yLCBwbGVhc2Ugbm90aWZ5IHRoZSBzZW5kZXIgYW5kIGRlbGV0ZSB0aGlzDQo+IG1l c3NhZ2UgYW5kIGl0cyBhdHRhY2htZW50cy4NCj4gQXMgZW1haWxzIG1heSBiZSBhbHRlcmVkLCBP cmFuZ2UgaXMgbm90IGxpYWJsZSBmb3IgbWVzc2FnZXMgdGhhdCBoYXZlIGJlZW4NCj4gbW9kaWZp ZWQsIGNoYW5nZWQgb3IgZmFsc2lmaWVkLg0KPiBUaGFuayB5b3UuDQoNCg== From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Thu Nov 21 12:09:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DBCD41AE1AB for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:09:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id coRRB6XxkV9p for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:09:20 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 31D851AE02B for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:09:20 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7fbd8e0000011cc-50-528e6867c7a4 Received: from EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.93]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 80.E6.04556.7686E825; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 21:09:12 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC007.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.93]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:09:09 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz To: Lizhenbin , "UTTARO, JAMES" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5F0WuYQl+BSp+0uQIPBp3p1xuZorVWgA///PmyWABDDeAIAAyywg Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:09:08 +0000 Message-ID: <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EEF4EC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0352@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0352@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrHLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPrG5GRl+QwY2TnBbPZx1gtTg7399i d+MfdotzT+cwOrB4vOyfw+gx5fdGVo+WI29ZPZYs+ckUwBLFZZOSmpNZllqkb5fAlbG/5zVb wV+WitPnrjA2MP5n7mLk5JAQMJG4NecqE4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBI4wSzXs/skI4yxklXk5c AFbFJqAj8e16F1i3iICbRE9HM5jNLBApsfHZO0YQW1ggWOLDowMsXYzsQDUhErPkYKqP7Z7C CmKzCKhKbJ8CMYVXwFeifXU/mC0kMItF4vBvji5GDg5OgTCJKW2GIGFGoNO+n1rDBLFIXOLW k/lQJwtILNlzHuoVUYmXj/+xQtjKEt/nPGKBqNeRWLD7ExuErS2xbOFrqLWCEidnPmGZwCg2 C8nYWUhaZiFpmYWkZQEjyypGjtLi1LLcdCPDTYzAODomwea4g3HBJ8tDjNIcLErivF/eOgcJ CaQnlqRmp6YWpBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi4JRqYIyplgjbXs72a/aP78k6y7dxGzzy/8NWs+b+Wg2e xzempojwhM6etm3+Stmp0tP5ZxUbyXNn+K9++tuur57p9vSsquJ3dmv0BVh45j98WeA2caYe 6wyjmolWDtc02nMn8VxLSNu1uq8ke8ukzga36q/X5njuW+lcVjbdhudGgvfdbSnHuDcul1Vi Kc5INNRiLipOBABvr+91cQIAAA== Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:09:22 -0000 What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? You need to think about partitioned networks too. It's not as simple as you think. -- Jakob. -----Original Message----- From: Lizhenbin [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com]=20 It is not like this way. For the ICCP-based label allocation method, the pr= imary PE is allocate the label for VPN by its own label allocation algorith= m. The backup PE is just to allocate the label specified by the primary PE.= The process is just like label backup. They need not use the same label al= location algorithm. From ju1738@att.com Thu Nov 21 12:17:50 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1EFAE1AE07D for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:17:50 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.725 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.725 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xQvMm5V7AogL for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:17:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com [209.65.160.93]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DABF1AE04D for ; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 12:17:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) with ESMTP id 26a6e825.66eb3940.283281.00-598.813014.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:17:38 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528e6a62357f2d74-ba974d20095d36e664da75a2e4fbdccd03922a4a Received: from unknown [144.160.229.24] (EHLO alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com) by nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com(mxl_mta-6.15.0-1) over TLS secured channel with ESMTP id 16a6e825.0.283270.00-153.812985.nbfkord-smmo07.seg.att.com (envelope-from ); Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:17:37 +0000 (UTC) X-MXL-Hash: 528e6a6159488f40-d2b2173018a413ef24219caee06344832ae06a57 Received: from enaf.aldc.att.com (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rALKHaGn013307; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:17:36 -0500 Received: from mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com (mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com [130.9.128.239]) by alpi155.enaf.aldc.att.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rALKHQob013144 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:17:28 -0500 Received: from MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com (MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.itservices.sbc.com [144.151.223.61]) by mlpi407.sfdc.sbc.com (RSA Interceptor); Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:17:17 GMT Received: from MISOUT7MSGUSR9I.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.56]) by MISOUT7MSGHUB9E.ITServices.sbc.com ([144.151.223.61]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 21 Nov 2013 15:17:17 -0500 From: "UTTARO, JAMES" To: Jakob Heitz , Lizhenbin Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5F0WuYQl+BSp+0uQIPBp3p1xuZorVWgA///PmyWABDDeAIAAyywggAADN2A= Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:17:16 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0352@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EEF4EC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EEF4EC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.191.74] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=N/Ce4RBB c=1 sm=0 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=LOYLubJGhHEA:10 a=RKUqKanIpfwA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=kj9zAlcOel0A:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=6CO8hjaBWl0A:10 a=0FD05c-RAAAA:8 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=gUf9G6QUUv48f0_TRjoA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:] X-AnalysisOut: [10 a=f7GxY0FH8QIA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10] Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 21 Nov 2013 20:17:50 -0000 As I stated before an operational section that anticipates running the netw= ork would be useful in this discussion. I would like to see various scenari= os, restrictions, failure modes etc.. Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:09 PM To: Lizhenbin; UTTARO, JAMES Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? You need to think about partitioned networks too. It's not as simple as you think. -- Jakob. -----Original Message----- From: Lizhenbin [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com]=20 It is not like this way. For the ICCP-based label allocation method, the pr= imary PE is allocate the label for VPN by its own label allocation algorith= m. The backup PE is just to allocate the label specified by the primary PE.= The process is just like label backup. They need not use the same label al= location algorithm. From wwwrun@rfc-editor.org Fri Nov 22 01:36:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 763451ACCDA; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:36:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.913 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.913 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id d62hRnHWJZJp; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3085D1ACAD7; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:36:17 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id A82E875E019; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:25:45 -0800 (PST) To: naikumar@cisco.com, raggarwa_1@yahoo.com, erosen@cisco.com, thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com, yakov@juniper.net Subject: [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6514 (3802) From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20131122092545.A82E875E019@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:25:45 -0800 (PST) Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, iesg@ietf.org, stbryant@cisco.com X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:36:18 -0000 The following errata report has been held for document update for RFC6514, "BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6514&eid=3802 -------------------------------------- Status: Held for Document Update Type: Editorial Reported by: Nagendra Kumar Date Reported: 2013-11-13 Held by: Stewart Bryant (IESG) Section: 4.2 Original Text ------------- Usage of Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.1 Corrected Text -------------- Usage of Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.2 Notes ----- Section 9.1 defines Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D operation and is not the right reference to be called in Section 4.2 -------------------------------------- RFC6514 (draft-ietf-l3vpn-2547bis-mcast-bgp-08) -------------------------------------- Title : BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs Publication Date : February 2012 Author(s) : R. Aggarwal, E. Rosen, T. Morin, Y. Rekhter Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From wwwrun@rfc-editor.org Fri Nov 22 01:36:46 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0C5961ACCFC; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:36:46 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.913 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.913 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_HELO_PASS=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 7V4PowAtzzCa; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from rfc-editor.org (rfc-editor.org [IPv6:2001:1890:126c::1:2f]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B46C51ACAD7; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:36:44 -0800 (PST) Received: by rfc-editor.org (Postfix, from userid 30) id 37D9575E019; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:26:13 -0800 (PST) To: naikumar@cisco.com, raggarwa_1@yahoo.com, erosen@cisco.com, thomas.morin@orange-ftgroup.com, yakov@juniper.net Subject: [Errata Held for Document Update] RFC6514 (3801) From: RFC Errata System Message-Id: <20131122092613.37D9575E019@rfc-editor.org> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:26:13 -0800 (PST) Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org, rfc-editor@rfc-editor.org, iesg@ietf.org, stbryant@cisco.com X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:36:46 -0000 The following errata report has been held for document update for RFC6514, "BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs". -------------------------------------- You may review the report below and at: http://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=6514&eid=3801 -------------------------------------- Status: Held for Document Update Type: Editorial Reported by: Nagendra Kumar Date Reported: 2013-11-13 Held by: Stewart Bryant (IESG) Section: 4.1 Original Text ------------- Usage of Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.2. Corrected Text -------------- Usage of Intra-AS I-PMSI A-D routes is described in Section 9.1. Notes ----- Section 9.2 defines Inter-AS I-PMSI A-D operation and is not the right reference to be called in Section 4.1 -------------------------------------- RFC6514 (draft-ietf-l3vpn-2547bis-mcast-bgp-08) -------------------------------------- Title : BGP Encodings and Procedures for Multicast in MPLS/BGP IP VPNs Publication Date : February 2012 Author(s) : R. Aggarwal, E. Rosen, T. Morin, Y. Rekhter Category : PROPOSED STANDARD Source : Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Area : Routing Stream : IETF Verifying Party : IESG From stbryant@cisco.com Fri Nov 22 01:56:18 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 889F21AC862 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:56:18 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -8.512 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-8.512 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id oBe5o_yEZ150 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:56:16 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-1.cisco.com (aer-iport-1.cisco.com [173.38.203.51]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4DBE91ACCE4 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 01:56:15 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=7692; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1385114168; x=1386323768; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=GvBRchTGbfzqQC1yM7uFm1BCVUQVv4Sr8pTGCkVE4Rk=; b=A/nZIlA4+hGV3/m98YSBhHGXsbNPpAhVxYaYysxnIcQdaJ/S9NubFeU0 QYak4zJIrufm0xagNDEUgUUQ9xM6EWTNIfbp2fdlq5WxhAH2DvmNziJsh XgyuErP+1BbDEnr/YcXK1pmR5uLzgfiP9uiiPmkgly3srFFDMOfw5rbeB Y=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,751,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="1074866" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by aer-iport-1.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Nov 2013 09:56:07 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAM9txDd018907 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:56:01 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id rAM9tvdc017800; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:55:58 GMT Message-ID: <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:55:59 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mingui Zhang , Jakob Heitz , "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 09:56:18 -0000 On 19/11/2013 10:01, Mingui Zhang wrote: > Hi Stewart, > >> The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. > I am not sure I've got the point. Are your still talking about the label allocation issue? Could you please explain it more specifically? Different equipment types and different s/w versions use different label ranges for a specific purpose. So, you need the same h/w version and the same s/w version and a co-ordination policy that may well need to be domain wide to be able to use an identical label on two separate PEs. > >> If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may be >> disjoint. > PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then it becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies as to label base and range. - Stewart > > Thanks, > Mingui > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:41 AM >> To: Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) >> Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >> protection" >> >> The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >> >> If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w may be >> disjoint. >> >> Stewart >> >> On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>> We are on the same page. >>> I misinterpreted your :) >>> >>> I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. >>> It's definitely not a generic solution. >>> >>> -- >>> Jakob Heitz. >>> >>> >>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" >> wrote: >>>> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solution. I'm >> trying to point out that there isn't one. >>>> The problem gets harder, too. >>>> >>>> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >>>> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >>>> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >>>> >>>> and so forth. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> eric >>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>>>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>>>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant >>>>> (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>> PE protection" >>>>> >>>>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using >>>>> the same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>>>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>>>> >>>>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>>>> ways. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>>>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>> PE >>>>> protection" >>>>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same >>>>>> label >>>>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or >>>>> making sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every >>>>> pair of primary/backup PEs. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> eric >>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>> Behalf >>>>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>>>> range >>>>>>> for sharing. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and >>>>>>> backup >>>>> PE, >>>>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>>> fast >>>>> PE >>>>>>>> protection" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be >>>>>>>> independently >>>>>>> allocating >>>>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>>>> hardware >>>>>>> base and >>>>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>>>> allocated by >>>>>>>> both. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on >>>>>>>> behalf >>>>> of >>>>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>>>> introduce >>>>>>> the >>>>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need >>>>>>>> not >>>>> be >>>>>>> stored >>>>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any >>>>>>>> change >>>>> to >>>>>>> P routers >>>>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data >>>>>>>> plane >>>>> of >>>>>>> PE >>>>>>>> routers. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.htm >>>>>>>> l >>> . >>> >> >> -- >> For corporate legal information go to: >> >> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html > . > -- For corporate legal information go to: http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From stbryant@cisco.com Fri Nov 22 02:00:57 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 636FA1ACCFC for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 02:00:57 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.562 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.562 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.525, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_RHS_DOB=1.514, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ogrLvTrveIsI for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 02:00:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 363E11ACCE4 for ; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 02:00:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=532; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1385114445; x=1386324045; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=s6q7+zM2ahWKqPGJWi4BTqjOMou6rMPu8QULXuxXOIQ=; b=VTkIwdMDXYVuErzSY3rC38V5SC/+emzpqmv5sc67ejUY9iGpMQeqH6qi o87RdlLprjI/edohY0Q0GLgA6n5jeUGogZd0ktVJ71975IcDKEbNAe4OV Ve+hfhsJreyaBunLXRvPFwZxIMAakQPcnqhvEqALQbvyahpQTl9YItWMS Q=; X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Filtered: true X-IronPort-Anti-Spam-Result: AksFADcqj1KQ/khM/2dsb2JhbABZgweEA7YOBYJyEYEgFnSCJQEBAQRnEREJAhgEBRYNAgkDAgECAToLBgEMCAEBh32UVptYCJEOF4EljWmCZ4FLA4kPjwWSEoMo X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,751,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="423022" Received: from ams-core-3.cisco.com ([144.254.72.76]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 22 Nov 2013 10:00:44 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-3.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAMA0c9D019986 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:00:40 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id rAMA0bFb018032; Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:00:37 GMT Message-ID: <528F2B46.5070009@cisco.com> Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:00:38 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Lizhenbin , Mingui Zhang , Jakob Heitz , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Re: =?GB2312?B?tPC4tDogV2h5IHdlIGNvbnNpZGVyIHRoZSBtZXRob2Qgb2YgIg==?= =?GB2312?B?bGFiZWwgc2hhcmluZyBmb3IgZmFzdCBQRSBwcm90ZWN0aW9uIg==?= References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0319@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0319@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=GB2312 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 22 Nov 2013 10:00:57 -0000 On 21/11/2013 02:21, Lizhenbin wrote: > Hi Stewart, > I add following points: > 1. since the protection is based on multi-homing or dual-homing scenarios, according to my experience on the network deployment design of carriers, they always use the devices with similar capacity for the multi-homed PEs. That is, the hardware and label range could be matching. That may be the case, assuming that all PEs need the same capacity. Now consider one generation later, different equipment different vendors..... - Stewart From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Sun Nov 24 18:22:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6E8E51A16F0 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 18:22:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id c5EfpzA-k3ri for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 18:22:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A49A11A1DFA for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 18:22:37 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AYG72378; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 02:22:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 02:22:09 +0000 Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 02:22:33 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.45]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 10:22:27 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: fwd: New Version Notification for draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHO6YN/slkHHzJR0Uqi4RBXoYfomZo1NEAg Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 02:22:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237B54@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 02:22:40 -0000 SGkgYWxsLA0KDQpNYWpvciBjaGFuZ2VzIHNpbmNlIHRoZSAtMDEgdmVyc2lvbiBpbmNsdWRlOg0K DQoxKSBhZGQgYSBzZWN0aW9uIGFib3V0IFRUTCBjb25zaWRlcmF0aW9uOw0KMikgcmVtb3ZlIHRo ZSBzZWN0aW9uIG9mIFBFIFJvdXRlciBGSUIgUmVkdWN0aW9uOw0KMykgcmVtb3ZlIHRoZSBzZWN0 aW9uIG9mIFBFIFJvdXRlciBSSUIgUmVkdWN0aW9uOw0KDQpBbnkgZnVydGhlciBjb21tZW50cyBh cmUgd2VsY29tZS4gQlRXLCB0aGUgcmVtb3ZlZCBzZWN0aW9ucyBhcyBtZW50aW9uZWQgYWJvdmUg 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Nov 2013 22:08:33 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-122.lucent.com [135.239.2.122]) by ihemail4.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id rAP68Obg014467 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Nov 2013 00:08:26 -0600 (CST) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id rAP68Nrx022369 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:08:23 +0100 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.62]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:08:23 +0100 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: Xuxiaohu , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Re: New Version Notification for draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt Thread-Topic: New Version Notification for draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt Thread-Index: AQHO6YN/slkHHzJR0Uqi4RBXoYfomZo1NEAggABCMIA= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 06:08:19 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237B54@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: <853263FCF177E0418A91C0CD339D37EE@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.39 Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 06:08:35 -0000 T24gdGhlIFRUTCBpc3N1ZSBJIGJlbGlldmUgdGhpcyBpcyBub3QgYWRkcmVzc2luZyB0aGUgaXNz dWUuIFdlIGNhbiBzYXkNCmRvbqGvdCBkZWNyZW1lbnQgYnV0IHdoZW4gYW5kIGhvdyB3aWxsIHRo 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<1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237C44@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237C22@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 06:40:17 -0000 DQoNCj4gLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQo+ILeivP7IyzogSGVuZGVyaWNreCwgV2ltIChXaW0p IFttYWlsdG86d2ltLmhlbmRlcmlja3hAYWxjYXRlbC1sdWNlbnQuY29tXQ0KPiC3osvNyrG85Dog MjAxM8TqMTHUwjI1yNUgMTQ6MjkNCj4gytW8/sjLOiBYdXhpYW9odTsgbDN2cG5AaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4gs63LzTogZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJuZXRAdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g 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From wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com Sun Nov 24 23:26:56 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F3F6F1AC7F2 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:26:55 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 1.289 X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, score=1.289 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id sF_Ggm2HxI8i for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:26:54 -0800 (PST) Received: from ihemail3.lucent.com (ihemail3.lucent.com [135.245.0.37]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DDFC31A1F74 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:26:53 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-122.lucent.com [135.239.2.122]) by ihemail3.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id rAP7QmbL021503 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Nov 2013 01:26:50 -0600 (CST) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id rAP7Ql1d013160 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Mon, 25 Nov 2013 08:26:48 +0100 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.62]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 08:26:47 +0100 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: Xuxiaohu , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?UmU6ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9y?= =?gb2312?Q?_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJh?= =?gb2312?Q?ft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO6YN/slkHHzJR0Uqi4RBXoYfomZo1NEAggABCMICAAAB8gIAABV+AgAAAqRCAAA9nAA== Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:26:46 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237C44@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.37 Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:26:56 -0000 VGhlcmUgYXJlIGVhc2llciB3YXlzIHRvIGRvIHRoaXMgd2hpY2ggZG9uoa90IHJlcXVpcmVkIGRh 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aw0KPj4oTDNWUE4pLQ0KPj4gPj4gPj4gICAgYmFzZWQgc3VibmV0IGV4dGVuc2lvbiBzb2x1dGlv biByZWZlcnJlZCB0byBhcyBWaXJ0dWFsIFN1Ym5ldCwNCj4+ID4+d2hpY2gNCj4+ID4+ID4+ICAg IGNhbiBiZSB1c2VkIGFzIGEga2luZCBvZiBMYXllcjMgbmV0d29yayB2aXJ0dWFsaXphdGlvbiBv dmVybGF5DQo+PiA+PiA+PiAgICBhcHByb2FjaCBmb3IgZGF0YSBjZW50ZXIgaW50ZXJjb25uZWN0 Lg0KPj4gPj4gPj4NCj4+ID4+ID4+DQo+PiA+PiA+Pg0KPj4gPj4gPj4NCj4+ID4+ID4+IFBsZWFz ZSBub3RlIHRoYXQgaXQgbWF5IHRha2UgYSBjb3VwbGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1l IG9mDQo+PiA+PiA+PnN1Ym1pc3Npb24gIHVudGlsIHRoZSBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBk aWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQNCj4+ID4+ID4+dG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQo+PiA+PiA+Pg0K Pj4gPj4gPj4gVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCj4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4NCg0K From zhangmingui@huawei.com Sun Nov 24 23:41:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AAC2B1AC828 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:41:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id irgQskvOWY_d for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:41:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 159121AC82B for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:41:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AYG95194; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:13 +0000 Received: from NKGEML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.34) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:37 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml403-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:41:25 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "UTTARO, JAMES" , Jakob Heitz , Lizhenbin Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5vWTTrHiJ+b8PEKB+gs6cO6u+povmVAAgAFdwmA= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:25 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A359@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0352@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EEF4EC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:42 -0000 Hi Jim & Jakob, I think you proposed a valid point. If we continue this proposal, we should= include an operational section. I believe this point applies to all such k= ind of "fast egress PE node protection" schemes.=20 >What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? >What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? > >You need to think about partitioned networks too. If two PEs can reserved a label space to be used as the label range for sha= ring, the proposal is workable. However, we can slightly relax this constra= int, i.e., PEs in an RG MUST reserve one label space for sharing. The PEs i= n an RG just need a common available label range, right? There are various = ways to achieve this. For example, we can divide the label spaces into seve= ral blocks beforehand. Give them priorities. When PEs locally allocate labe= ls, blocks with the higher priority will be used earlier. Then PEs in an RG= can agree on those common blocks with lower priorities. This relaxation in= troduces flexibility. Imagine the case that an operator may be not sure abo= ut the size of the label space to be reserved at the beginning. In this way= , even the primary come online after the backup, it can negotiate a label r= ange for sharing with the backup.=20 At last but not least, even if PEs cannot find a common label range in the = worst case or the network is partitioned, the ICCP connection will not be e= stablished. In this case, the PEs just fall back to the non redundant mode.= So the two scenarios proposed by Jakob can be handled. Anyway, I don't think there is no way to achieve such proposal. Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of UTTARO, JAMES >Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 4:17 AM >To: Jakob Heitz; Lizhenbin >Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) >Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >As I stated before an operational section that anticipates running the net= work >would be useful in this discussion. I would like to see various scenarios, >restrictions, failure modes etc.. > >Jim Uttaro > >-----Original Message----- >From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:09 PM >To: Lizhenbin; UTTARO, JAMES >Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) >Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? >What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? > >You need to think about partitioned networks too. >It's not as simple as you think. > >-- Jakob. > >-----Original Message----- >From: Lizhenbin [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com] > >It is not like this way. For the ICCP-based label allocation method, the p= rimary PE >is allocate the label for VPN by its own label allocation algorithm. The b= ackup PE >is just to allocate the label specified by the primary PE. The process is = just like >label backup. They need not use the same label allocation algorithm. From zhangmingui@huawei.com Sun Nov 24 23:42:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2E1181AC8F5 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:42:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.302 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.302 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id AH9Aa6wPdY25 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 393821AC828 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:42:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AYG95239; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:42:01 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:37 +0000 Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:58 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:41:54 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "stbryant@cisco.com" , Jakob Heitz , "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5I3T0VAcgGhjAEeT/uX7AMAJ/posNSEAgARNvYCABQIgcA== Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:41:53 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:42:05 -0000 Hi Stewart, >> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then= it >becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. > >Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >as to label base and range. At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w. For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a co= mmon block.=20 If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end up= with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 5:56 PM >To: Mingui Zhang; Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) >Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >On 19/11/2013 10:01, Mingui Zhang wrote: >> Hi Stewart, >> >>> The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >> I am not sure I've got the point. Are your still talking about the label= allocation >issue? Could you please explain it more specifically? >Different equipment types and different s/w versions >use different label ranges for a specific purpose. > >So, you need the same h/w version and the same >s/w version and a co-ordination policy that may >well need to be domain wide to be able to use >an identical label on two separate PEs. >> >>> If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w ma= y be >>> disjoint. >> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then= it >becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. > >Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >as to label base and range. > >- Stewart > >> >> Thanks, >> Mingui >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:41 AM >>> To: Jakob Heitz; Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>> Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>> >>> The authors need to take onboard the findings of the SPRING designers. >>> >>> If the PE equipments are different the label ranges supported by h/w ma= y be >>> disjoint. >>> >>> Stewart >>> >>> On 18/11/2013 16:05, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>> We are on the same page. >>>> I misinterpreted your :) >>>> >>>> I guess it could be done at small scale with certain restrictions. >>>> It's definitely not a generic solution. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 7:59 AM, "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" >>> wrote: >>>>> Oh, yeah. I'm not actually proposing that there's a workable solutio= n. >I'm >>> trying to point out that there isn't one. >>>>> The problem gets harder, too. >>>>> >>>>> PE1: VRF-A primary, VRF-B backup >>>>> PE2: VRF-B primary, VRF-C backup >>>>> PE3: VRF-C primary, VRF-A backup >>>>> >>>>> and so forth. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> eric >>>>> >>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 10:57 AM >>>>>> To: UTTARO, JAMES >>>>>> Cc: Eric Osborne (eosborne); Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant >>>>>> (stbryant); l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>> >>>>>> "same algorithm" is not good enough on its own. If two routers using >>>>>> the same algorithm boot up at different times and/or with different >>>>>> neighbors, they still won't allocate the same labels. >>>>>> >>>>>> The algorithm cannot just be "same". It must be restricted in other >>>>>> ways. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 18, 2013, at 5:51 AM, "UTTARO, JAMES" >wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That sounds doable ;) >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>>> Behalf >>>>>> Of Eric Osborne (eosborne) >>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 7:52 AM >>>>>>> To: Mingui Zhang; Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; >>>>>> l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>> PE >>>>>> protection" >>>>>>> It's not just the range, right? You have to allocate the same >>>>>>> label >>>>>> per VRF. So you either end up statically allocating labels or >>>>>> making sure you have the same label allocation algorithm on every >>>>>> pair of primary/backup PEs. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> eric >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On >>>>>> Behalf >>>>>>>> Of Mingui Zhang >>>>>>>> Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 4:34 AM >>>>>>>> To: Stewart Bryant (stbryant); Jakob Heitz; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast >>>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Operators can configure the PEs in an RG to reserve the same label >>>>>> range >>>>>>>> for sharing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> With the ICCP connection established between the primary and >>>>>>>> backup >>>>>> PE, >>>>>>>> the primary PE can mandate the sharing label range out of the >>>>>>>> intersection of the unused label space. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>>>>>> From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stbryant@cisco.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, November 14, 2013 9:52 PM >>>>>>>>> To: Jakob Heitz; Mingui Zhang; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for >>>>>>>>> fast >>>>>> PE >>>>>>>>> protection" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Isn't the normal problem that the two systems will be >>>>>>>>> independently >>>>>>>> allocating >>>>>>>>> labels from their default label table, possibly with different >>>>>> hardware >>>>>>>> base and >>>>>>>>> range, so there may not be a common label available that can be >>>>>>>> allocated by >>>>>>>>> both. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> - Stewart >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 07/11/2013 21:50, Jakob Heitz wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Several people at the mike asked this question: >>>>>>>>> How do you make sure that the PEs allocate the same label? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> This needs to be part of the document, because it is quite >>>>>>>> important. >>>>>>>>> If an external entity allocates the labels, the protocol >>>>>>>>> between the PEs and that entity needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>>> Since this is a feature that provides redundancy, the >>>>>>>>> label allocating entity also needs to be backed up by a >>>>>>>>> redundant entity. The protocol between the redundant >>>>>>>>> label allocators needs to be standardized. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Jakob Heitz. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ________________________________ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> From: l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org [l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] on >>>>>>>>> behalf >>>>>> of >>>>>>>>> Mingui Zhang [zhangmingui@huawei.com] >>>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, 07 November 2013 11:40 AM >>>>>>>>> To: l3vpn@ietf.org >>>>>>>>> Subject: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fas= t >>>>>>>>> PE protection" >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> As a choice of fast PE protection, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 1. This solution is simple and light-weight. We need not >>>>>> introduce >>>>>>>> the >>>>>>>>> complex context label table in PE routers. So label table need >>>>>>>>> not >>>>>> be >>>>>>>> stored >>>>>>>>> repeatedly on RG members. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 2. Also, it's easy to be deployed. It does not bring any >>>>>>>>> change >>>>>> to >>>>>>>> P routers >>>>>>>>> (control plane & data plane). It even does not change the data >>>>>>>>> plane >>>>>> of >>>>>>>> PE >>>>>>>>> routers. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> 3. In addition, it does not bear the restriction of "no >>>>>>>>> penultimate-hop-popping". >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>>> Mingui >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> For corporate legal information go to: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.htm >>>>>>>>> l >>>> . >>>> >>> >>> -- >>> For corporate legal information go to: >>> >>> http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html >> . >> > > >-- >For corporate legal information go to: > >http://www.cisco.com/web/about/doing_business/legal/cri/index.html From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Sun Nov 24 23:52:37 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 426EF1AC862 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:52:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 3.987 X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, score=3.987 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ijs026x2Ggkg for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 536B41AC7F3 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 23:52:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AYG96337; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:52:34 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:52:09 +0000 Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:52:32 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.45]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 15:52:26 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBm?= =?gb2312?Q?or_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJh?= =?gb2312?Q?ft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO6YN/slkHHzJR0Uqi4RBXoYfomZo1NEAggABCMICAAAB8gIAABV+AgAAAqRCAAA9nAIAABojw Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 07:52:26 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237C9C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237C44@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: 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Subject: =?gb2312?B?UmU6ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0?= =?gb2312?Q?ion_for_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24g?= =?gb2312?Q?for_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO6YN/slkHHzJR0Uqi4RBXoYfomZo1NEAggABCMICAAAB8gIAABV+AgAAAqRCAAA9nAIAABojwgAA43oA= Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 11:15:49 +0000 Message-ID: In-Reply-To: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237C9C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.8.130913 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: <99B0D9205BA7FF448ACCB1A18BFBAEBD@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.37 Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 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bGUgb2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lDQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+Pm9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24gIHVu dGlsIHRoZSBodG1saXplZCB2ZXJzaW9uIGFuZCBkaWZmIGFyZSBhdmFpbGFibGUNCj4+ID4+ID4+ ID4+YXQgdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcuDQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+Pg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gVGhlIElFVEYg U2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCj4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4NCg0K From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Mon Nov 25 09:13:29 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 54D691ADF80 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 09:13:29 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nFcdxqvamMPv for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 09:13:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7727F1ADF62 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 09:13:26 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-fd-52938533f121 Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 1B.FB.23183.33583925; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 18:13:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 12:13:24 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz To: Mingui Zhang Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO6bHIz0eRrrYkF0eeNRkvUMZv55o2L+gE Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:13:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0352@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EEF4EC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> , <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A359@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A359@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrFLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt65J6+Qgg/4XIhbPZx1gtTg7399i d+MfdotzT+cwWlyZ28jmwOrxsn8Oo8eU3xtZPVqOvGX1WLLkJ1MASxSXTUpqTmZZapG+XQJX xox9B1kK1klXLHxf3MD4XbSLkZNDQsBE4tPhl+wQtpjEhXvr2boYuTiEBI4wSmz9u4gZwlnO KNE7YQMzSBWbgI7Et+tdYLaIgKbEy69X2EGKmAXmM0qsfdrKCJIQFgiWuLfmGCtEUYjE94Mv GSFsI4nNE2cDreDgYBFQlbh0VBUkzCtgLzFx0lp2iGU/WCWu9k0Cq+cUCJO4v/AyG4jNCHTe 91NrmEBsZgFxiVtP5jNBnC0gsWTPeWYIW1Ti5eN/rBA1OhILdn9ig7C1JZYtfM0MsUxQ4uTM JywTGEVnIRk1C0nLLCQts5C0LGBkWcXIUVqcWpabbmSwiREYP8ck2HR3MO55aXmIUZqDRUmc 98tb5yAhgfTEktTs1NSC1KL4otKc1OJDjEwcnFINjEaWT7ak/C69/UYq8+Dvxtn7GApChPZ4 3Vt8wHbBvkhXu4Ith1raFkQqJGxl1N2W/vnv0d/8BhxqyvMDF63SffH8tsbbmPc+7ye+fO3e tnaTeNBNFfVnrHtKnl30sa5w9tq4xzBqvcv3fM/PaYIMdeazJ13IKT3DHOKb8unnpMiTXsxd eYcmP1RiKc5INNRiLipOBADCwERMbQIAAA== Cc: "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Nov 2013 17:13:29 -0000 You missed my point. I asked about a single label. You answered a label blo= ck question. -- Jakob Heitz. On Nov 24, 2013, at 11:41 PM, "Mingui Zhang" wrote= : > Hi Jim & Jakob, >=20 > I think you proposed a valid point. If we continue this proposal, we shou= ld include an operational section. I believe this point applies to all such= kind of "fast egress PE node protection" schemes.=20 >=20 >> What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? >> What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? >>=20 >> You need to think about partitioned networks too. >=20 > If two PEs can reserved a label space to be used as the label range for s= haring, the proposal is workable. However, we can slightly relax this const= raint, i.e., PEs in an RG MUST reserve one label space for sharing. The PEs= in an RG just need a common available label range, right? There are variou= s ways to achieve this. For example, we can divide the label spaces into se= veral blocks beforehand. Give them priorities. When PEs locally allocate la= bels, blocks with the higher priority will be used earlier. Then PEs in an = RG can agree on those common blocks with lower priorities. This relaxation = introduces flexibility. Imagine the case that an operator may be not sure a= bout the size of the label space to be reserved at the beginning. In this w= ay, even the primary come online after the backup, it can negotiate a label= range for sharing with the backup.=20 >=20 > At last but not least, even if PEs cannot find a common label range in th= e worst case or the network is partitioned, the ICCP connection will not be= established. In this case, the PEs just fall back to the non redundant mod= e. So the two scenarios proposed by Jakob can be handled. >=20 > Anyway, I don't think there is no way to achieve such proposal. >=20 > Thanks, > Mingui >=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of UTTARO, JAMES >> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 4:17 AM >> To: Jakob Heitz; Lizhenbin >> Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) >> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >> protection" >>=20 >> As I stated before an operational section that anticipates running the n= etwork >> would be useful in this discussion. I would like to see various scenario= s, >> restrictions, failure modes etc.. >>=20 >> Jim Uttaro >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:09 PM >> To: Lizhenbin; UTTARO, JAMES >> Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) >> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >> protection" >>=20 >> What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? >> What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? >>=20 >> You need to think about partitioned networks too. >> It's not as simple as you think. >>=20 >> -- Jakob. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Lizhenbin [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com] >>=20 >> It is not like this way. For the ICCP-based label allocation method, the= primary PE >> is allocate the label for VPN by its own label allocation algorithm. The= backup PE >> is just to allocate the label specified by the primary PE. The process i= s just like >> label backup. They need not use the same label allocation algorithm. From zhangmingui@huawei.com Mon Nov 25 22:18:26 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 870101AE179 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:18:26 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id wrFdG44X6yzM for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 463A71AE178 for ; Mon, 25 Nov 2013 22:18:24 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAS10893; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:18:22 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:17:53 +0000 Received: from NKGEML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.35) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:18:20 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml404-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.35]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 14:18:09 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: Jakob Heitz Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5vWTTrHiJ+b8PEKB+gs6cO6u+povmVAAgAFdwmCABLgyAIABBkZg Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:18:09 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368B9AD@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, <5A5B4DE12C0DAC44AF501CD9A2B01A8D081E0352@nkgeml506-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EEF4EC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> , <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A359@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "Stewart Bryant \(stbryant\)" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 06:18:26 -0000 Hi Jakob, Oh, sorry for the misunderstanding.=20 So you advised we consider how to handle the label allocation exceptions. C= ompared to the long duration of label usage, the allocation happens instant= ly. Once the label is allocated, PEs should keep using it even the network = is partitioned. Let's distinguish the exceptions happen in label usage and = label allocation. Exceptions on label allocation must be rare. For these ra= re cases, operators are responsible to fix the label allocation exceptions. >From the side of the network devices, PE should be clear which VPNs should = be protected at the first place. When the primary PE allocates the sharing = label for each VPN, the backup should acknowledge it. If the allocation fai= ls, an exception should be reported. [Primary after backup] If the backup PE comes online first and already used= some labels without considering the protection. Afterwards, the primary PE= comes online and operators must have them work in redundant mode. Then ope= rators should be ready to modify labels allocated by the backup to achieve = the label sharing proposal. Let's consider another possibility, suppose ope= rators intentionally need the "backup" PE be online first and the "primary"= be online later. The "backup" can locally assign a label from the sharing = block. When the "primary" comes online afterwards, it should reuse the labe= l that the "backup" used. [Network is partitioned so backup cannot reach primary] Suppose operators h= ave the primary and backup online at the same time. The primary and backup = are responsible to establish the ICCP connection with each other. If the pr= imary/backup cannot be reached, an exception should be reported. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 1:13 AM >To: Mingui Zhang >Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; Lizhenbin; l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >You missed my point. I asked about a single label. You answered a label bl= ock >question. > >-- >Jakob Heitz. > > >On Nov 24, 2013, at 11:41 PM, "Mingui Zhang" >wrote: > >> Hi Jim & Jakob, >> >> I think you proposed a valid point. If we continue this proposal, we sho= uld >include an operational section. I believe this point applies to all such k= ind of "fast >egress PE node protection" schemes. >> >>> What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? >>> What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? >>> >>> You need to think about partitioned networks too. >> >> If two PEs can reserved a label space to be used as the label range for = sharing, >the proposal is workable. However, we can slightly relax this constraint, = i.e., PEs >in an RG MUST reserve one label space for sharing. The PEs in an RG just n= eed a >common available label range, right? There are various ways to achieve thi= s. For >example, we can divide the label spaces into several blocks beforehand. Gi= ve >them priorities. When PEs locally allocate labels, blocks with the higher = priority >will be used earlier. Then PEs in an RG can agree on those common blocks w= ith >lower priorities. This relaxation introduces flexibility. Imagine the case= that an >operator may be not sure about the size of the label space to be reserved = at the >beginning. In this way, even the primary come online after the backup, it = can >negotiate a label range for sharing with the backup. >> >> At last but not least, even if PEs cannot find a common label range in t= he worst >case or the network is partitioned, the ICCP connection will not be establ= ished. >In this case, the PEs just fall back to the non redundant mode. So the two >scenarios proposed by Jakob can be handled. >> >> Anyway, I don't think there is no way to achieve such proposal. >> >> Thanks, >> Mingui >> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of UTTARO, >>> JAMES >>> Sent: Friday, November 22, 2013 4:17 AM >>> To: Jakob Heitz; Lizhenbin >>> Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) >>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>> >>> As I stated before an operational section that anticipates running >>> the network would be useful in this discussion. I would like to see >>> various scenarios, restrictions, failure modes etc.. >>> >>> Jim Uttaro >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >>> Sent: Thursday, November 21, 2013 3:09 PM >>> To: Lizhenbin; UTTARO, JAMES >>> Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org; Stewart Bryant (stbryant) >>> Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >>> protection" >>> >>> What if the primary PE comes online after the backup? >>> What label should the backup use if it can not reach the primary? >>> >>> You need to think about partitioned networks too. >>> It's not as simple as you think. >>> >>> -- Jakob. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Lizhenbin [mailto:lizhenbin@huawei.com] >>> >>> It is not like this way. For the ICCP-based label allocation method, >>> the primary PE is allocate the label for VPN by its own label >>> allocation algorithm. The backup PE is just to allocate the label >>> specified by the primary PE. The process is just like label backup. The= y need >not use the same label allocation algorithm. From stbryant@cisco.com Tue Nov 26 04:31:54 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 144891AE1D0 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:31:54 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -9.502 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-9.502 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, USER_IN_DEF_DKIM_WL=-7.5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id tMGG9guCO_Yu for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:31:52 -0800 (PST) Received: from aer-iport-2.cisco.com (aer-iport-2.cisco.com [173.38.203.52]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 992811AE1C5 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 04:31:52 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=cisco.com; i=@cisco.com; l=1173; q=dns/txt; s=iport; t=1385469113; x=1386678713; h=message-id:date:from:reply-to:mime-version:to:cc:subject: references:in-reply-to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=bnuojubxb8hoeJCzQhEPOwbSf10OFkApNhw5Yur9H2w=; b=XAJkbGTa8RsjjnDHLmjsyaKglrP3mjopMkVufdK7fGCvy2chWe3LFNAN 9KFDwDDzCgiOpKeAWry+W3J4gzCr56TRFqbZ/JlMjy6GqC8zlGcZkg+Lx c3gbQRgWIMti7F/LgKk46jJ5nDUy1vePu3wiinAR46ZTSKl0VbQOXbupc 8=; X-IronPort-AV: E=Sophos;i="4.93,774,1378857600"; d="scan'208";a="649064" Received: from ams-core-4.cisco.com ([144.254.72.77]) by aer-iport-2.cisco.com with ESMTP; 26 Nov 2013 12:31:52 +0000 Received: from cisco.com (mrwint.cisco.com [64.103.70.36]) by ams-core-4.cisco.com (8.14.5/8.14.5) with ESMTP id rAQCViZd001231 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:31:46 GMT Received: from [IPv6:::1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by cisco.com (8.14.4+Sun/8.8.8) with ESMTP id rAQCVgeD003458; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:31:43 GMT Message-ID: <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:31:42 +0000 From: Stewart Bryant User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; Intel Mac OS X 10.8; rv:24.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/24.1.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: Mingui Zhang , Jakob Heitz , "Eric Osborne (eosborne)" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com>, , <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list Reply-To: stbryant@cisco.com List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:31:54 -0000 On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: > Hi Stewart, > >>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then it >> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >> >> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >> as to label base and range. > At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w. > > For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a common block. > > If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. > The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of establishing protocol invariants and designing our protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break that invariant. That is a bad idea. Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages the future of the network that this will be deployed in, and I do not think that is something the IETF should support. - Stewart From rraszuk@gmail.com Tue Nov 26 07:11:49 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7680E1ACCE3 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:11:49 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id b1c_iPSAxUO9 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:11:42 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x230.google.com (mail-ie0-x230.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::230]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AF6751ACAD7 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:11:42 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f176.google.com with SMTP id at1so9567951iec.35 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:11:42 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Sxm7CxUnbnkV7JOUvfUF3/z9lDJ60tu6aLN/tyrpw4s=; b=NCZN+VXk4kuZRKjADfrzWSTfLnjVKyVYVtluGd73ABGT4SHJaCRV5EBivNx3nO2XEc 9v492kBDODmm/fQrTQUFe5KBEPOjQBE2FkHHYtPHF1njfPE2PZYtKRMFyRpAUej1DQOg jSwqG9zfdW4iHAWeR2Nco643h4kJzK3OM94wD11hqatkUcy2uySCPN07PEqRYSPPKhZM wiDekzghxXlPziBTGR77x0Mh9un39bd/tasm3pMYqgxQjmzrHittXjud8yCAoNMumjGx jc2IWLYR97eJU/AKgr5AqZQqu3xuHezqww4/hT6UcBLAu1P6SzrKRnC5AN0rRGP/QYYH VKiA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.117.103 with SMTP id kd7mr17262895igb.4.1385478702414; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:11:42 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:11:42 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:11:42 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Ne6qLK314VlbPtVkHNvXPkEqc5I Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: "stbryant@cisco.com" Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:11:49 -0000 Hi Stewart, > It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported > is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break > that invariant. That is a bad idea. Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on that too. I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. Practically we already have solution for this problem using context labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another solution for the exact same problem. But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. Best regards, R. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >> >> Hi Stewart, >> >>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then >>>> it >>> >>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>> >>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>> as to label base and range. >> >> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w. >> >> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a >> common block. >> >> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end >> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. >> > The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of > establishing protocol invariants and designing our > protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. > > It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported > is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break > that invariant. That is a bad idea. > > Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible > in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages > the future of the network that this will be deployed > in, and I do not think that is something the IETF > should support. > > - Stewart From eric.gray@ericsson.com Tue Nov 26 07:17:10 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D9AA91AC85E for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:17:10 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 55lBuBbVcYQA for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:17:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DEC4B1AC4C1 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:17:08 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7fbd8e0000011cc-77-5294bb730234 Received: from EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.84]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id B5.98.04556.37BB4925; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:17:07 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB104.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.121]) by EUSAAHC004.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.84]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 10:17:07 -0500 From: Eric Gray To: Robert Raszuk , "stbryant@cisco.com" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5JENNeslIAghtUuB4PpO2cTPd5ospzSAgAS1koCABJGHgIAB404AgAAstAD//60PsA== Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:17:06 +0000 Message-ID: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPiG7x7ilBBptOaFg8n3WA1eLsfH+L poVNzBbnns5hdGDxeNk/h9Fjyu+NrB5Llvxk8ti9cQFTAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8aiVw9Z C76JVew81MPewNgp1MXIySEhYCLxfWEvC4QtJnHh3nq2LkYuDiGBI4wSb7p3MkE4yxkl+lau ZQKpYhPQkDh2Zy1jFyMHh4hAkMSHGWEgJrOAu8T203wgFcICwRKdzR8ZQWwRgRCJ7wdfQtlh EsuuPmQGsVkEVCV2bj8ONpFXwFdi54q3rBCrGtgl7i1pZQdJcAoESmy+eQysgRHouO+n1oA1 MAuIS9x6Mp8J4mgBiSV7zjND2KISLx//Y4WwlSWWPNnPAlGvI7Fg9yc2CFtbYtnC18wQiwUl Ts58wjKBUWwWkrGzkLTMQtIyC0nLAkaWVYwcpcWpZbnpRoabGIGxdEyCzXEH44JPlocYpTlY lMR5v7x1DhISSE8sSc1OTS1ILYovKs1JLT7EyMTBKdXAyMyn+l8zaMEeu+n7vrA+bb4h3PHM 8Fxw0+wtU77sK+54x79ANu/NlV02exp47rW2PWJKOhvheSNNtP/rrxu3N7Wa3w5qe/pJzPmt 4urd97hfVktF6n8qCb99ZO/pJCOTZ7X24dPuPnsx1YBLnNE0Sreue/VMPTv3MynXws6w9XxV X5gww0KaR4mlOCPRUIu5qDgRADpbWNpzAgAA Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:17:11 -0000 R, I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing about any for= m of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of making = deployed=20 implementations more complex. -- Eric -----Original Message----- From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM To: stbryant@cisco.com Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Hi Stewart, > It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported > is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break > that invariant. That is a bad idea. Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on that too. I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. Practically we already have solution for this problem using context labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another solution for the exact same problem. But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. Best regards, R. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >> >> Hi Stewart, >> >>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Th= en >>>> it >>> >>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>> >>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>> as to label base and range. >> >> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w= . >> >> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a >> common block. >> >> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end >> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. >> > The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of > establishing protocol invariants and designing our > protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. > > It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported > is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break > that invariant. That is a bad idea. > > Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible > in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages > the future of the network that this will be deployed > in, and I do not think that is something the IETF > should support. > > - Stewart From rraszuk@gmail.com Tue Nov 26 07:20:02 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CCD9B1ACC88 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:20:02 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id m3J9VyibT91M for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22b.google.com (mail-ie0-x22b.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22b]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 37A331AC4C1 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:20:01 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f171.google.com with SMTP id ar20so9648694iec.30 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:20:01 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=91fFkAIkbcj0fdsCb8qXJ4J8kPPe126p4W1aW3J6WeE=; b=ZXWCoRKwyUfsZ+dCoXeWTl1pQjfrlMTUXGGXT10EwKYIZDuyF6fcKD8ZAggAaHCx3J mPYWip18x0NJOATBoQ1+6qHfoZHY45+ylbIFEwPA5+1TrR2Wv4nsJWz0dUlxTXyg+i2Z XmDKh2WrgEeTEL/5MioQMHgz82f8V38/+GAhEJjCSGtwb7XjG2RpQhGwJDU2suvhIOhB toozI/l7aTI4q+FVjlmRmY0r87rtvOBiSqcqrGvlu4eT1Mpw2BIhFML4YoRJtzeRtEFQ wzuIAStzHgv8xQ8Nk+Osf9jBETpb93SO53haayCkAoXefCC0bfW3Rk8LFMTdBuhA5r8D dkXw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.117.103 with SMTP id kd7mr17308841igb.4.1385479200945; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:20:00 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 07:20:00 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:20:00 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: 0FHLaHDtEcjYJPYuOXEKuI2XV_g Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: Eric Gray Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:20:03 -0000 E, I think you have misunderstood. What do you refer as "deployed implementations" as more complex in the light of using notion of global label in segment routing ? That was my point regarding innovation in local vs global label allocation paradigm. r. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Eric Gray wrote: > R, > > I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing about any form > of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of making deployed > implementations more complex. > > -- > Eric > > -----Original Message----- > From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM > To: stbryant@cisco.com > Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" > > Hi Stewart, > >> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >> that invariant. That is a bad idea. > > Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain > wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on > that too. > > I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not > trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to > return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the > disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. > > Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. > > Practically we already have solution for this problem using context > labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another > solution for the exact same problem. > > But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find > the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the > node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's > innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. > > Best regards, > R. > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: >> On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >>> >>> Hi Stewart, >>> >>>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then >>>>> it >>>> >>>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>>> >>>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>>> as to label base and range. >>> >>> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w. >>> >>> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a >>> common block. >>> >>> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end >>> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. >>> >> The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of >> establishing protocol invariants and designing our >> protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. >> >> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >> >> Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible >> in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages >> the future of the network that this will be deployed >> in, and I do not think that is something the IETF >> should support. >> >> - Stewart From eric.gray@ericsson.com Tue Nov 26 08:02:12 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B1F841ADC03 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:02:12 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id q98fJ6lFxbKX for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:02:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg21.ericsson.net (usevmg21.ericsson.net [198.24.6.65]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F41281AD8F3 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:02:10 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c6180641-b7fbd8e0000011cc-b8-5294c601e4d4 Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg21.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id CD.9B.04556.106C4925; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:02:10 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB104.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.121]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:02:09 -0500 From: Eric Gray To: Robert Raszuk Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5JENNeslIAghtUuB4PpO2cTPd5ospzSAgAS1koCABJGHgIAB404AgAAstAD//60PsIAAVUMA//+saMA= Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:02:09 +0000 Message-ID: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9722@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoC7TsSlBBk2SFs9nHWC1ODvf36Jp YROzxbmncxgdWDxe9s9h9JjyeyOrx5IlP5k8dm9cwBTAEsVlk5Kak1mWWqRvl8CVMePgYaaC +8YVl7btYm9g/K7RxcjJISFgIrHv9xIWCFtM4sK99WxdjFwcQgJHGCXONR6BcpYzSnStvc8K UsUmoCFx7M5aRhBbREBVovPEI2YQm1mgROLO1oPsILawQLBEZ/NHqJoQie8HX0LZSRI3vyxi A7FZgHpfHJkFNpNXwFfi8tY7TCC2kEA3h8TFN8kgNqdAoMTBP51g1zECXff91BomiF3iEree zGeCuFpAYsme88wQtqjEy8f/WCFsZYklT/azQNTrSCzY/YkNwtaWWLbwNTPEXkGJkzOfsExg FJuFZOwsJC2zkLTMQtKygJFlFSNHaXFqWW66keEmRmAsHZNgc9zBuOCT5SFGaQ4WJXHeL2+d g4QE0hNLUrNTUwtSi+KLSnNSiw8xMnFwSjUwFiR/P5/C9rPAhfU5/7qs8oN5pcnfN/xMDPlR FXDaU27lync/suaI3DgayPOT18SkJyzzeOAT3l1Ry1hKq8Tid7EFiEbcKzsjvfNIpxlnKIvR qtcfOHu/zIv1yPwbacsf3vRG8MAlYYcX/PW6KkueGHyUaagUOHOlZF9AUxrr12vNAlIPDS2V WIozEg21mIuKEwENIUcmcwIAAA== Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:02:12 -0000 Possibly, I have misunderstood. :-) Stewart made the point that allocation of labels is the business of the dev= ice that needs to interpret them. I agree with this. You seemed to argue that this is not necessary, saying that you: "do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance= to the node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innovat= ion of=20 using mpls label [SIC] in new and novel ways." The way that I understand this statement is that you feel that it is okay t= o make most currently deployed MPLS implementations (which currently operate based= on=20 the "principle" that they are mostly free to allocate labels on whatever ba= sis they=20 later will use to interpret them) change this fundamental operating princip= le to suit=20 arbitrary "novel" approaches. My further understanding - based on this - is that you feel that complicati= ng existing and deployed implementations in favor of some arbitrary set of "novel" appr= oaches=20 is okay. Since it is not impossible to support arbitrarily many uses with currently = deployed implementations, it seems likely that the reason to suggest different appro= aches=20 is to simplify some proposed "novel" approach (or set of approaches). This is certainly not a new idea. This gets proposed by someone every few = months. So, the ongoing issue with these proposals is simply this: without a very c= ompelling=20 reason to do so - specific to any proposal in question - changing the parad= igm used=20 in allocating labels to suit that proposal should not be given serious cons= ideration. Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being r= equired to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpretati= ons of the labels they allocate. In my understanding, the yardstick against which to measure the degree to w= hich=20 any "novel" proposal is compelling is to consider it in comparison to simil= ar proposals made in the past, against the degree to which the proposed approach is actu= ally needed, against the finite resources that will be consumed (such as demulti= plexing code points - e.g. - Ethertypes, etc.) and the complexity required to suppo= rt it in an existing implementation. To date, the only proposal (I am immediately aware of) that has measured u= p using=20 this yardstick is the need to provide for upstream allocation to support P2= MP LSPs. If the above understanding is incorrect, please feel free to tell me in wha= t way I have misunderstood you. -- Eric PS - I addressed my previous mail to "R" as that was how you signed the mai= l to=20 which I was responding. If you wish to address replies to "E", that is fin= e with me, but it is not how I have indicated that I wish to be addressed. -----Original Message----- From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Rasz= uk Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:20 AM To: Eric Gray Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Importance: High E, I think you have misunderstood. What do you refer as "deployed implementations" as more complex in the light of using notion of global label in segment routing ? That was my point regarding innovation in local vs global label allocation paradigm. r. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Eric Gray wrote: > R, > > I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing abou= t any form > of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of makin= g deployed > implementations more complex. > > -- > Eric > > -----Original Message----- > From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM > To: stbryant@cisco.com > Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE pro= tection" > > Hi Stewart, > >> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >> that invariant. That is a bad idea. > > Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain > wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on > that too. > > I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not > trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to > return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the > disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. > > Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. > > Practically we already have solution for this problem using context > labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another > solution for the exact same problem. > > But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find > the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the > node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's > innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. > > Best regards, > R. > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrot= e: >> On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >>> >>> Hi Stewart, >>> >>>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. T= hen >>>>> it >>>> >>>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>>> >>>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>>> as to label base and range. >>> >>> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/= w. >>> >>> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out = a >>> common block. >>> >>> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will en= d >>> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. >>> >> The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of >> establishing protocol invariants and designing our >> protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. >> >> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >> >> Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible >> in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages >> the future of the network that this will be deployed >> in, and I do not think that is something the IETF >> should support. >> >> - Stewart From rraszuk@gmail.com Tue Nov 26 08:32:21 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 036B71AD6B9 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:32:21 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id QHhJxsYTi43q for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:32:19 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22d.google.com (mail-ie0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EF5B41AD8F3 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:32:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id to1so9776301ieb.32 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:32:18 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=WfbEijLsVIRkfc/upUnht2E2gjMkOCoIe5iFDFyr98c=; b=VkLkrv5oNAtIUnK30yE5O9Rvyh9gwByWYPLVHfuHspdGbYXdC60QvBKiBPUgAt+4eJ C9OAzTJQMdIRXP6oTt3EY8QTBxPDjWZHvZGA/1BfLiT4rBK6u3Q3kjEGZN9xxHb8vss2 30HbO1Tz4K14i75HJtsXSCiwb0HTtml35q5u0gPWCia7xRczhG+caPfWaCtag3Ind+fb FiMpCxapgHvZEzLUDoU/1lpEIL/yg81YMCQrJRTZ6NB3yIJEJKqnUfzTXWAySgUWdKGN B328awPyPXOVmQEFJIbwzooSD8tBtyddO8t9DGIQPIihpGchuns0FD5csaWuzD9z9EYN jB9A== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.27.104 with SMTP id s8mr17647501igg.4.1385483538709; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:32:18 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:32:18 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9722@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9722@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:32:18 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: Aj6dwMM2LPoVYGODEOViGF_Iqgc Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: Eric Gray Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:32:21 -0000 Hi Eric, > Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being required > to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpretations of > the labels they allocate. I am actually not sure what you mean by "existing implementations" In none of the proposals there is any change suggested to "existing implementations" both control or data plane as far as processing the labels. Where I am getting to is that we do see growing need for opening APIs for label allocations. I2RS is a good protocol example which can support it. That's it. Today depending on applications labels are allocated from a local pool via local function call. The same function call could be remote to SDN controller or PCE and I do see some benefits. In fact such allocation mode could be push/pull. This does break original local label significance of MPLS what Stuart based his point on - and that was what I reacted to as something I do not agree with in principle. Best, R. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Eric Gray wrote: > Possibly, I have misunderstood. :-) > > Stewart made the point that allocation of labels is the business of the device that > needs to interpret them. > > I agree with this. > > You seemed to argue that this is not necessary, saying that you: > > "do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the > node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innovation of > using mpls label [SIC] in new and novel ways." > > The way that I understand this statement is that you feel that it is okay to make > most currently deployed MPLS implementations (which currently operate based on > the "principle" that they are mostly free to allocate labels on whatever basis they > later will use to interpret them) change this fundamental operating principle to suit > arbitrary "novel" approaches. > > My further understanding - based on this - is that you feel that complicating existing > and deployed implementations in favor of some arbitrary set of "novel" approaches > is okay. > > Since it is not impossible to support arbitrarily many uses with currently deployed > implementations, it seems likely that the reason to suggest different approaches > is to simplify some proposed "novel" approach (or set of approaches). > > This is certainly not a new idea. This gets proposed by someone every few months. > > So, the ongoing issue with these proposals is simply this: without a very compelling > reason to do so - specific to any proposal in question - changing the paradigm used > in allocating labels to suit that proposal should not be given serious consideration. > Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being required > to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpretations of > the labels they allocate. > > In my understanding, the yardstick against which to measure the degree to which > any "novel" proposal is compelling is to consider it in comparison to similar proposals > made in the past, against the degree to which the proposed approach is actually > needed, against the finite resources that will be consumed (such as demultiplexing > code points - e.g. - Ethertypes, etc.) and the complexity required to support it in an > existing implementation. > > To date, the only proposal (I am immediately aware of) that has measured up using > this yardstick is the need to provide for upstream allocation to support P2MP LSPs. > > If the above understanding is incorrect, please feel free to tell me in what way I have > misunderstood you. > > -- > Eric > > PS - I addressed my previous mail to "R" as that was how you signed the mail to > which I was responding. If you wish to address replies to "E", that is fine with me, > but it is not how I have indicated that I wish to be addressed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:20 AM > To: Eric Gray > Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" > Importance: High > > E, > > I think you have misunderstood. > > What do you refer as "deployed implementations" as more complex in the > light of using notion of global label in segment routing ? > > That was my point regarding innovation in local vs global label > allocation paradigm. > > r. > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Eric Gray wrote: >> R, >> >> I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing about any form >> of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of making deployed >> implementations more complex. >> >> -- >> Eric >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk >> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM >> To: stbryant@cisco.com >> Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" >> >> Hi Stewart, >> >>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >> >> Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain >> wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on >> that too. >> >> I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not >> trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to >> return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the >> disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. >> >> Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. >> >> Practically we already have solution for this problem using context >> labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another >> solution for the exact same problem. >> >> But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find >> the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the >> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's >> innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. >> >> Best regards, >> R. >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: >>> On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Stewart, >>>> >>>>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then >>>>>> it >>>>> >>>>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>>>> >>>>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>>>> as to label base and range. >>>> >>>> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w. >>>> >>>> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a >>>> common block. >>>> >>>> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end >>>> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. >>>> >>> The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of >>> establishing protocol invariants and designing our >>> protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. >>> >>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>> >>> Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible >>> in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages >>> the future of the network that this will be deployed >>> in, and I do not think that is something the IETF >>> should support. >>> >>> - Stewart From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Tue Nov 26 08:56:25 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94D691ADF0E for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:56:25 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xRLCh5xagYgB for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:56:23 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5F7B81ADEAE for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 08:56:23 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-a4-5294d2b434f7 Received: from EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.75]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 01.EC.23183.4B2D4925; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:56:20 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC001.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.75]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 11:56:21 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz To: Robert Raszuk Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5I3TOlohLvEZH0+OpvX3hFa7zpospzuAgAS1kYCABJGHgIAB404AgAAstQCAAAGCAIAAAM8AgAALx4CAAAhtAP//suVE Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:56:20 +0000 Message-ID: <474F94AD-451D-42BA-B742-FFB19FE5A439@ericsson.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9722@eusaamb104.ericsson.se>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrOLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXSPt+6WS1OCDJ52m1k8n3WA1eLsfH+L poVNzBbnns5hdGDxeNk/h9Fjyu+NrB5Llvxk8ti9cQFTAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8azFbtY CpY4V7z7N5m9gfGMaRcjJ4eEgInE8f2bmCFsMYkL99azdTFycQgJHGGUePtrDTuEs5xR4s7T drAqNgEdiW/Xu8BsEQFVic4Tj5hBipgFZjBKbOm/zAiSEBYIlri35hgrRFGIxPeDLxkh7DyJ hf1PwOIsQM1L1t1jB7F5Bewl3p/aDbVtCqfErYkr2UASnAKBEg9/vgArYgS67/upNUwgNrOA uMStJ/OZIO4WkFiy5zzUD6ISLx//Y4Wo0ZFYsPsTG4StLbFs4WtmiGWCEidnPmGZwCg6C8mo WUhaZiFpmYWkZQEjyypGjtLi1LLcdCODTYzAyDkmwaa7g3HPS8tDjNIcLErivF/eOgcJCaQn lqRmp6YWpBbFF5XmpBYfYmTi4JRqYJQNuPByrv6dhlOX3fv1v+Y+zWJ4//KJ847VKYz2k9Vf M5UvEq070ef9q+V6wt3C3rIbzDHftV+eqns1P0ruGo/sPcYr3rMlj3V+551m/UN2sfKbhJC4 xKf1v4oOb9bae/uWw4MpC5QOdJ9l+LWmp+P2o36Jfxul9UUy5l+a861L9gpbuQZjdIsSS3FG oqEWc1FxIgDwLynXagIAAA== Cc: "stbryant@cisco.com" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 16:56:25 -0000 To my understanding, one reason for the private allocation invariant of MPL= S is that all the participating entities can boot up and down in any order = or not at all and the system "just works" without any careful configuration= . -- Jakob Heitz. On Nov 26, 2013, at 8:32 AM, "Robert Raszuk" wrote: > Hi Eric, >=20 >> Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of bein= g required >> to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpret= ations of >> the labels they allocate. >=20 > I am actually not sure what you mean by "existing implementations" In > none of the proposals there is any change suggested to "existing > implementations" both control or data plane as far as processing the > labels. >=20 > Where I am getting to is that we do see growing need for opening APIs > for label allocations. I2RS is a good protocol example which can > support it. That's it. Today depending on applications labels are > allocated from a local pool via local function call. >=20 > The same function call could be remote to SDN controller or PCE and I > do see some benefits. In fact such allocation mode could be push/pull. >=20 > This does break original local label significance of MPLS what Stuart > based his point on - and that was what I reacted to as something I do > not agree with in principle. >=20 > Best, > R. >=20 >=20 > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Eric Gray wrote= : >> Possibly, I have misunderstood. :-) >>=20 >> Stewart made the point that allocation of labels is the business of the = device that >> needs to interpret them. >>=20 >> I agree with this. >>=20 >> You seemed to argue that this is not necessary, saying that you: >>=20 >> "do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significan= ce to the >> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innov= ation of >> using mpls label [SIC] in new and novel ways." >>=20 >> The way that I understand this statement is that you feel that it is oka= y to make >> most currently deployed MPLS implementations (which currently operate ba= sed on >> the "principle" that they are mostly free to allocate labels on whatever= basis they >> later will use to interpret them) change this fundamental operating prin= ciple to suit >> arbitrary "novel" approaches. >>=20 >> My further understanding - based on this - is that you feel that complic= ating existing >> and deployed implementations in favor of some arbitrary set of "novel" a= pproaches >> is okay. >>=20 >> Since it is not impossible to support arbitrarily many uses with current= ly deployed >> implementations, it seems likely that the reason to suggest different ap= proaches >> is to simplify some proposed "novel" approach (or set of approaches). >>=20 >> This is certainly not a new idea. This gets proposed by someone every f= ew months. >>=20 >> So, the ongoing issue with these proposals is simply this: without a ver= y compelling >> reason to do so - specific to any proposal in question - changing the pa= radigm used >> in allocating labels to suit that proposal should not be given serious c= onsideration. >> Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of bein= g required >> to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpret= ations of >> the labels they allocate. >>=20 >> In my understanding, the yardstick against which to measure the degree t= o which >> any "novel" proposal is compelling is to consider it in comparison to si= milar proposals >> made in the past, against the degree to which the proposed approach is a= ctually >> needed, against the finite resources that will be consumed (such as demu= ltiplexing >> code points - e.g. - Ethertypes, etc.) and the complexity required to su= pport it in an >> existing implementation. >>=20 >> To date, the only proposal (I am immediately aware of) that has measure= d up using >> this yardstick is the need to provide for upstream allocation to support= P2MP LSPs. >>=20 >> If the above understanding is incorrect, please feel free to tell me in = what way I have >> misunderstood you. >>=20 >> -- >> Eric >>=20 >> PS - I addressed my previous mail to "R" as that was how you signed the = mail to >> which I was responding. If you wish to address replies to "E", that is = fine with me, >> but it is not how I have indicated that I wish to be addressed. >>=20 >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert R= aszuk >> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:20 AM >> To: Eric Gray >> Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE pr= otection" >> Importance: High >>=20 >> E, >>=20 >> I think you have misunderstood. >>=20 >> What do you refer as "deployed implementations" as more complex in the >> light of using notion of global label in segment routing ? >>=20 >> That was my point regarding innovation in local vs global label >> allocation paradigm. >>=20 >> r. >>=20 >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Eric Gray wrot= e: >>> R, >>>=20 >>> I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing abo= ut any form >>> of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of mak= ing deployed >>> implementations more complex. >>>=20 >>> -- >>> Eric >>>=20 >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM >>> To: stbryant@cisco.com >>> Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE p= rotection" >>>=20 >>> Hi Stewart, >>>=20 >>>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>>=20 >>> Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain >>> wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on >>> that too. >>>=20 >>> I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not >>> trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to >>> return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the >>> disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. >>>=20 >>> Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. >>>=20 >>> Practically we already have solution for this problem using context >>> labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another >>> solution for the exact same problem. >>>=20 >>> But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find >>> the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the >>> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's >>> innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. >>>=20 >>> Best regards, >>> R. >>>=20 >>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wr= ote: >>>> On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>=20 >>>>>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up.= Then >>>>>>> it >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>>>>>=20 >>>>>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>>>>> as to label base and range. >>>>>=20 >>>>> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same = h/w. >>>>>=20 >>>>> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find ou= t a >>>>> common block. >>>>>=20 >>>>> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will = end >>>>> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mod= e. >>>>>=20 >>>> The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of >>>> establishing protocol invariants and designing our >>>> protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. >>>>=20 >>>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>>>=20 >>>> Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible >>>> in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages >>>> the future of the network that this will be deployed >>>> in, and I do not think that is something the IETF >>>> should support. >>>>=20 >>>> - Stewart From rraszuk@gmail.com Tue Nov 26 09:05:11 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7521AE1A2 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:05:11 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, GB_I_LETTER=-2, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id yzh_Yo79obbO for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x231.google.com (mail-ie0-x231.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::231]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9B7E51ADF87 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f177.google.com with SMTP id tp5so9456302ieb.22 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=kDJ81S4/5+ET6LWgPfB+WPJf85ucbo5Ev9k++rUxQH4=; b=OeD7AfAKtXFy4GywojOEXBICwOESDXqZcltKwpW8cwgovIrxBF1A27seN8m7hSuyJi 9JsU6wulDAbkAjzZ022ZNnnEWKfkcWbXsrGJyzOcE1qlktP9HJA6g4pZlXDEA4bZoTry jHDXi7m3uMtL1nLsit44sFDQETUItyTTV5XlD1Qet6ixrVx1e+52PpGL8wmJ43iwNDZc c4s4oKWFQVZB9mO5a1UMiIhR/QQAWNHRm3kPKN909QzD7meGx4FuvqyCMMKUbHcizSCp Jzis0M/OXrIRqf/ulyrYZ0gCTdXQl8a+68sTDheJKqd0JmmpxyQ+IJqX/N2on6WsfYPA Ztqw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.27.104 with SMTP id s8mr17786169igg.4.1385485509427; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:05:09 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <474F94AD-451D-42BA-B742-FFB19FE5A439@ericsson.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9722@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> <474F94AD-451D-42BA-B742-FFB19FE5A439@ericsson.com> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:05:09 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: TKw_CfUaLFpcv_bjF0i-z3kMGew Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: Jakob Heitz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "stbryant@cisco.com" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:05:12 -0000 True .. But one can't escape from "careful configuration" .. imagine if you would assign wrong IP addresses to interfaces :) So allocating VPN X for given VRF in the config is at the end not that hard. After all in any decent size configuration of any router and it's deltas are all automated and scripted. I think to conclude if MPLS folks will keep protecting the original MPLS assumptions we will see more and more transition to VXLAN or NVGRE where application demux is no longer required to be of the magic 4 letters 20 bits ..... Would that simplify existing products ? Best, r. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:56 PM, Jakob Heitz wrote: > To my understanding, one reason for the private allocation invariant of MPLS is that all the participating entities can boot up and down in any order or not at all and the system "just works" without any careful configuration. > > -- > Jakob Heitz. > > > On Nov 26, 2013, at 8:32 AM, "Robert Raszuk" wrote: > >> Hi Eric, >> >>> Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being required >>> to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpretations of >>> the labels they allocate. >> >> I am actually not sure what you mean by "existing implementations" In >> none of the proposals there is any change suggested to "existing >> implementations" both control or data plane as far as processing the >> labels. >> >> Where I am getting to is that we do see growing need for opening APIs >> for label allocations. I2RS is a good protocol example which can >> support it. That's it. Today depending on applications labels are >> allocated from a local pool via local function call. >> >> The same function call could be remote to SDN controller or PCE and I >> do see some benefits. In fact such allocation mode could be push/pull. >> >> This does break original local label significance of MPLS what Stuart >> based his point on - and that was what I reacted to as something I do >> not agree with in principle. >> >> Best, >> R. >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Eric Gray wrote: >>> Possibly, I have misunderstood. :-) >>> >>> Stewart made the point that allocation of labels is the business of the device that >>> needs to interpret them. >>> >>> I agree with this. >>> >>> You seemed to argue that this is not necessary, saying that you: >>> >>> "do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the >>> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innovation of >>> using mpls label [SIC] in new and novel ways." >>> >>> The way that I understand this statement is that you feel that it is okay to make >>> most currently deployed MPLS implementations (which currently operate based on >>> the "principle" that they are mostly free to allocate labels on whatever basis they >>> later will use to interpret them) change this fundamental operating principle to suit >>> arbitrary "novel" approaches. >>> >>> My further understanding - based on this - is that you feel that complicating existing >>> and deployed implementations in favor of some arbitrary set of "novel" approaches >>> is okay. >>> >>> Since it is not impossible to support arbitrarily many uses with currently deployed >>> implementations, it seems likely that the reason to suggest different approaches >>> is to simplify some proposed "novel" approach (or set of approaches). >>> >>> This is certainly not a new idea. This gets proposed by someone every few months. >>> >>> So, the ongoing issue with these proposals is simply this: without a very compelling >>> reason to do so - specific to any proposal in question - changing the paradigm used >>> in allocating labels to suit that proposal should not be given serious consideration. >>> Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being required >>> to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpretations of >>> the labels they allocate. >>> >>> In my understanding, the yardstick against which to measure the degree to which >>> any "novel" proposal is compelling is to consider it in comparison to similar proposals >>> made in the past, against the degree to which the proposed approach is actually >>> needed, against the finite resources that will be consumed (such as demultiplexing >>> code points - e.g. - Ethertypes, etc.) and the complexity required to support it in an >>> existing implementation. >>> >>> To date, the only proposal (I am immediately aware of) that has measured up using >>> this yardstick is the need to provide for upstream allocation to support P2MP LSPs. >>> >>> If the above understanding is incorrect, please feel free to tell me in what way I have >>> misunderstood you. >>> >>> -- >>> Eric >>> >>> PS - I addressed my previous mail to "R" as that was how you signed the mail to >>> which I was responding. If you wish to address replies to "E", that is fine with me, >>> but it is not how I have indicated that I wish to be addressed. >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:20 AM >>> To: Eric Gray >>> Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" >>> Importance: High >>> >>> E, >>> >>> I think you have misunderstood. >>> >>> What do you refer as "deployed implementations" as more complex in the >>> light of using notion of global label in segment routing ? >>> >>> That was my point regarding innovation in local vs global label >>> allocation paradigm. >>> >>> r. >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Eric Gray wrote: >>>> R, >>>> >>>> I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing about any form >>>> of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of making deployed >>>> implementations more complex. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Eric >>>> >>>> -----Original Message----- >>>> From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk >>>> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM >>>> To: stbryant@cisco.com >>>> Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >>>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" >>>> >>>> Hi Stewart, >>>> >>>>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>>>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>>>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>>> >>>> Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain >>>> wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on >>>> that too. >>>> >>>> I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not >>>> trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to >>>> return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the >>>> disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. >>>> >>>> Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. >>>> >>>> Practically we already have solution for this problem using context >>>> labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another >>>> solution for the exact same problem. >>>> >>>> But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find >>>> the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the >>>> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's >>>> innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. >>>> >>>> Best regards, >>>> R. >>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: >>>>> On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then >>>>>>>> it >>>>>>> >>>>>>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>>>>>> as to label base and range. >>>>>> >>>>>> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w. >>>>>> >>>>>> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a >>>>>> common block. >>>>>> >>>>>> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end >>>>>> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. >>>>>> >>>>> The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of >>>>> establishing protocol invariants and designing our >>>>> protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. >>>>> >>>>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>>>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>>>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>>>> >>>>> Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible >>>>> in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages >>>>> the future of the network that this will be deployed >>>>> in, and I do not think that is something the IETF >>>>> should support. >>>>> >>>>> - Stewart From eric.gray@ericsson.com Tue Nov 26 09:24:28 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 98B6C1ADF59 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:24:28 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id KiKLkMWcVwj7 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:24:26 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 19A721ADF73 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:24:26 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-99-5294d94820be Received: from EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.96]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id 66.DE.23183.849D4925; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:24:24 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB104.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.121]) by EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 12:24:16 -0500 From: Eric Gray To: Robert Raszuk Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO5JENNeslIAghtUuB4PpO2cTPd5ospzSAgAS1koCABJGHgIAB404AgAAstAD//60PsIAAVUMA//+saMCAAGfLAP//sqlw Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:24:16 +0000 Message-ID: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329AA893@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9722@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFnrALMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPgq7HzSlBBltm6Vk8n3WA1eLsfH+L poVNzBbnns5hdGDxeNk/h9Fjyu+NrB5Llvxk8ti9cQFTAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8adlTuZ Co4FVjzufc7YwHjWoYuRk0NCwETiYuN3JghbTOLCvfVsILaQwBFGiSULTbsYuYDs5YwSbeca WUASbAIaEsfurGUEsUUEVCU6TzxiBrGZBUok7mw9yA5iCwsES3Q2f4SqCZH4fvAlkM0BZOdJ XD9oCBJmAWr9tPA/WAmvgK/E5Kuv2CF2TeOUmPJtK9gRnAKBEg9/vgCbyQh03PdTa5ggdolL 3HoyH+poAYkle84zQ9iiEi8f/2OFsJUlljzZzwJRryOxYPcnNghbW2LZwtfMEIsFJU7OfMIy gVFsFpKxs5C0zELSMgtJywJGllWMHKXFqWW56UYGmxiBsXRMgk13B+Oel5aHGKU5WJTEeb+8 dQ4SEkhPLEnNTk0tSC2KLyrNSS0+xMjEwSnVwMi22FLj097kpAO9+o8SpvlVeru//vMzYYbj X5+6lbMPJG/5kHJwZZ6Rwp3zywuWLNxqsUsj4U76NzeR5Jm3k2+5FZWyp5m9FPvxkL3iT/jD n7++Xk/qMVax+bvt7ffry+PXlGz8uddjZUyyhk25x5RPAQYXxI9tWDb3RfYdW3Of4xUfhXOd cxyUWIozEg21mIuKEwFacydPcwIAAA== Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:24:28 -0000 Hmmm. Maybe we're arguing semantics in more than one way. The simplest (i.e. - proof of concept) approach to label allocation is that= an LSR plugs label interpretation information into a row in a table, and gives the= row=20 number as the label. This doesn't necessarily have to happen in this order= , but an LSR cannot properly interpret a label allocated in this way until it has= created the row - hence it will not normally allocate and distribute the label unti= l it has completed the corresponding row-entry. Architecturally, this "table" corresponds to (at least) the ILM (RFC 3031).= In a very simple implementation, this row may combine both ILM and NHLFE. A very simple implementation (consistent with the model referenced above) may only support a smaller subset of the possible 1M rows in its table, hen= ce=20 asking this implementation to provide a specific label that may fall outsid= e of a limited range will not work. In addition, asking this LSR to allocate any = specific=20 label - even from within the supported range - either risks a collision wit= h that label (if already allocated for some other purpose) or a sparse population = of table rows and a need to track which labels have already been given, and wi= ll result in complicating the allocation process by fragmenting row population= . One reason to "protect" this reference implementation approach is that it c= an (quite quickly) become difficult to justify use of MPLS at all if implement= ations using this (or a similar) approach are not allowed (or become significantly= less than optimal) because of subsequent proposals. If I end up having to do a CAM lookup to find the row corresponding to a la= bel,=20 it is not clear at all why I don't just do a CAM lookup for key fields in t= he IP=20 header. If you're talking about making the (commonly used) internal allocation func= tion available to a higher-layer entity, that doesn't break this paradigm at all= . But I would not get that from your earlier mail, nor would I be able to determine= - based on this - how this is inconsistent with Stewart's comment. -- Eric -----Original Message----- From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Rasz= uk Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:32 AM To: Eric Gray Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Importance: High Hi Eric, > Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being= required > to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpreta= tions of > the labels they allocate. I am actually not sure what you mean by "existing implementations" In none of the proposals there is any change suggested to "existing implementations" both control or data plane as far as processing the labels. Where I am getting to is that we do see growing need for opening APIs for label allocations. I2RS is a good protocol example which can support it. That's it. Today depending on applications labels are allocated from a local pool via local function call. The same function call could be remote to SDN controller or PCE and I do see some benefits. In fact such allocation mode could be push/pull. This does break original local label significance of MPLS what Stuart based his point on - and that was what I reacted to as something I do not agree with in principle. Best, R. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Eric Gray wrote: > Possibly, I have misunderstood. :-) > > Stewart made the point that allocation of labels is the business of the d= evice that > needs to interpret them. > > I agree with this. > > You seemed to argue that this is not necessary, saying that you: > > "do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significan= ce to the > node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innov= ation of > using mpls label [SIC] in new and novel ways." > > The way that I understand this statement is that you feel that it is okay= to make > most currently deployed MPLS implementations (which currently operate bas= ed on > the "principle" that they are mostly free to allocate labels on whatever = basis they > later will use to interpret them) change this fundamental operating princ= iple to suit > arbitrary "novel" approaches. > > My further understanding - based on this - is that you feel that complica= ting existing > and deployed implementations in favor of some arbitrary set of "novel" ap= proaches > is okay. > > Since it is not impossible to support arbitrarily many uses with currentl= y deployed > implementations, it seems likely that the reason to suggest different app= roaches > is to simplify some proposed "novel" approach (or set of approaches). > > This is certainly not a new idea. This gets proposed by someone every fe= w months. > > So, the ongoing issue with these proposals is simply this: without a very= compelling > reason to do so - specific to any proposal in question - changing the par= adigm used > in allocating labels to suit that proposal should not be given serious co= nsideration. > Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being= required > to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpreta= tions of > the labels they allocate. > > In my understanding, the yardstick against which to measure the degree to= which > any "novel" proposal is compelling is to consider it in comparison to sim= ilar proposals > made in the past, against the degree to which the proposed approach is ac= tually > needed, against the finite resources that will be consumed (such as demul= tiplexing > code points - e.g. - Ethertypes, etc.) and the complexity required to sup= port it in an > existing implementation. > > To date, the only proposal (I am immediately aware of) that has measured= up using > this yardstick is the need to provide for upstream allocation to support = P2MP LSPs. > > If the above understanding is incorrect, please feel free to tell me in w= hat way I have > misunderstood you. > > -- > Eric > > PS - I addressed my previous mail to "R" as that was how you signed the m= ail to > which I was responding. If you wish to address replies to "E", that is f= ine with me, > but it is not how I have indicated that I wish to be addressed. > > -----Original Message----- > From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Ra= szuk > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:20 AM > To: Eric Gray > Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE pro= tection" > Importance: High > > E, > > I think you have misunderstood. > > What do you refer as "deployed implementations" as more complex in the > light of using notion of global label in segment routing ? > > That was my point regarding innovation in local vs global label > allocation paradigm. > > r. > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Eric Gray wrote= : >> R, >> >> I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing abo= ut any form >> of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of maki= ng deployed >> implementations more complex. >> >> -- >> Eric >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk >> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM >> To: stbryant@cisco.com >> Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE pr= otection" >> >> Hi Stewart, >> >>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >> >> Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain >> wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on >> that too. >> >> I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not >> trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to >> return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the >> disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. >> >> Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. >> >> Practically we already have solution for this problem using context >> labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another >> solution for the exact same problem. >> >> But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find >> the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the >> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's >> innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. >> >> Best regards, >> R. >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wro= te: >>> On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Stewart, >>>> >>>>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. = Then >>>>>> it >>>>> >>>>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>>>> >>>>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>>>> as to label base and range. >>>> >>>> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h= /w. >>>> >>>> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out= a >>>> common block. >>>> >>>> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will e= nd >>>> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode= . >>>> >>> The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of >>> establishing protocol invariants and designing our >>> protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. >>> >>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>> >>> Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible >>> in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages >>> the future of the network that this will be deployed >>> in, and I do not think that is something the IETF >>> should support. >>> >>> - Stewart From rraszuk@gmail.com Tue Nov 26 09:53:58 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8C2541ADEBE for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:53:58 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.278 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.278 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, FM_FORGED_GMAIL=0.622, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id N1u9uOwLOkJs for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: from mail-ie0-x22d.google.com (mail-ie0-x22d.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4001:c03::22d]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 15B4B1ADFBE for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:53:56 -0800 (PST) Received: by mail-ie0-f173.google.com with SMTP id to1so9766533ieb.18 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:53:55 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:sender:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject :from:to:cc:content-type; bh=Ik2ZPMDiWEbGS0DvM/nYLvIqd66k9BRXBIi64Oi1VV8=; b=v+GRkOm8Bmy3Ypn97V0yBV7Cr4JTymS/df5FXxqJtbDp5IbUyBx6e4rGdaM3PmCCvD ZZNuaf2rPfq+S4TRnpsPFOxPq64kzSENDhdP7FmpfWNZ9xToYWxGUDypStIXUvNzu+kH Rrrqrpa8v0h1Ru2eEXG4olmq3w8l0hahKyNXxfX4URmitmLYMG5KZVy3gKTwoMWWIPHi 9uaN+QYfHVNeb+HpwepMNGYuv0uV8UpsZuaLUS56UtwFLrMqAob32S6e2JrF35mN3bki ku5Rnb0RUL+SpfhG051FjwmWI+5HyMvSIkR5kK/6V9BBQK6ul5Q9k1IvdXpGFdByeaaQ H9hQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.50.164.130 with SMTP id yq2mr17773200igb.53.1385488435755; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:53:55 -0800 (PST) Sender: rraszuk@gmail.com Received: by 10.64.61.129 with HTTP; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 09:53:55 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329AA893@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <2F3EBB88EC3A454AAB08915FBF0B8C7E02EB9CCC@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> <5284D566.8000704@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF48@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A2757210468E9C@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <20ECF67871905846A80F77F8F4A275721046972B@xmb-rcd-x09.cisco.com> <528A5F58.4030505@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733684402@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <528F2A2F.4050905@cisco.com> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368A366@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <529494AE.20701@cisco.com> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9722@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329AA893@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:53:55 +0100 X-Google-Sender-Auth: FpOKTOcBoHTDsWFTvBfAvslV6yk Message-ID: Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" From: Robert Raszuk To: Eric Gray Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" , "stbryant@cisco.com" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:53:58 -0000 Hi Eric, Indeed we are getting into as multi-dimentional thread :) Stewart comment was to protect local significance of a label. Label X allocated by node N must be only used by node N. That is something I commented on. You on the other hand are more worried about allocation algorithm chosen by given implementation. I think both are quire orthogonal aspects. I can see that without breaking any of your model I could still use label X to be meaningful on more then single node. Simply I allocate a block of L labels (even in the table model by null prepopulation of the table) and give to higher application to use such block. That is all fine and I do not think we are in any discussion breaking that. Regards, R. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 6:24 PM, Eric Gray wrote: > > Hmmm. Maybe we're arguing semantics in more than one way. > > The simplest (i.e. - proof of concept) approach to label allocation is that an LSR > plugs label interpretation information into a row in a table, and gives the row > number as the label. This doesn't necessarily have to happen in this order, but > an LSR cannot properly interpret a label allocated in this way until it has created > the row - hence it will not normally allocate and distribute the label until it has > completed the corresponding row-entry. > > Architecturally, this "table" corresponds to (at least) the ILM (RFC 3031). In a > very simple implementation, this row may combine both ILM and NHLFE. > > A very simple implementation (consistent with the model referenced above) > may only support a smaller subset of the possible 1M rows in its table, hence > asking this implementation to provide a specific label that may fall outside of a > limited range will not work. In addition, asking this LSR to allocate any specific > label - even from within the supported range - either risks a collision with that > label (if already allocated for some other purpose) or a sparse population of > table rows and a need to track which labels have already been given, and will > result in complicating the allocation process by fragmenting row population. > > One reason to "protect" this reference implementation approach is that it can > (quite quickly) become difficult to justify use of MPLS at all if implementations > using this (or a similar) approach are not allowed (or become significantly less > than optimal) because of subsequent proposals. > > If I end up having to do a CAM lookup to find the row corresponding to a label, > it is not clear at all why I don't just do a CAM lookup for key fields in the IP > header. > > If you're talking about making the (commonly used) internal allocation function > available to a higher-layer entity, that doesn't break this paradigm at all. But I > would not get that from your earlier mail, nor would I be able to determine - > based on this - how this is inconsistent with Stewart's comment. > > -- > Eric > > -----Original Message----- > From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk > Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 11:32 AM > To: Eric Gray > Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org > Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" > Importance: High > > Hi Eric, > >> Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being required >> to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpretations of >> the labels they allocate. > > I am actually not sure what you mean by "existing implementations" In > none of the proposals there is any change suggested to "existing > implementations" both control or data plane as far as processing the > labels. > > Where I am getting to is that we do see growing need for opening APIs > for label allocations. I2RS is a good protocol example which can > support it. That's it. Today depending on applications labels are > allocated from a local pool via local function call. > > The same function call could be remote to SDN controller or PCE and I > do see some benefits. In fact such allocation mode could be push/pull. > > This does break original local label significance of MPLS what Stuart > based his point on - and that was what I reacted to as something I do > not agree with in principle. > > Best, > R. > > > On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 5:02 PM, Eric Gray wrote: >> Possibly, I have misunderstood. :-) >> >> Stewart made the point that allocation of labels is the business of the device that >> needs to interpret them. >> >> I agree with this. >> >> You seemed to argue that this is not necessary, saying that you: >> >> "do not find the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the >> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innovation of >> using mpls label [SIC] in new and novel ways." >> >> The way that I understand this statement is that you feel that it is okay to make >> most currently deployed MPLS implementations (which currently operate based on >> the "principle" that they are mostly free to allocate labels on whatever basis they >> later will use to interpret them) change this fundamental operating principle to suit >> arbitrary "novel" approaches. >> >> My further understanding - based on this - is that you feel that complicating existing >> and deployed implementations in favor of some arbitrary set of "novel" approaches >> is okay. >> >> Since it is not impossible to support arbitrarily many uses with currently deployed >> implementations, it seems likely that the reason to suggest different approaches >> is to simplify some proposed "novel" approach (or set of approaches). >> >> This is certainly not a new idea. This gets proposed by someone every few months. >> >> So, the ongoing issue with these proposals is simply this: without a very compelling >> reason to do so - specific to any proposal in question - changing the paradigm used >> in allocating labels to suit that proposal should not be given serious consideration. >> Otherwise, existing implementations would be continually at risk of being required >> to support arbitrary and increasingly complex "novel" semantic interpretations of >> the labels they allocate. >> >> In my understanding, the yardstick against which to measure the degree to which >> any "novel" proposal is compelling is to consider it in comparison to similar proposals >> made in the past, against the degree to which the proposed approach is actually >> needed, against the finite resources that will be consumed (such as demultiplexing >> code points - e.g. - Ethertypes, etc.) and the complexity required to support it in an >> existing implementation. >> >> To date, the only proposal (I am immediately aware of) that has measured up using >> this yardstick is the need to provide for upstream allocation to support P2MP LSPs. >> >> If the above understanding is incorrect, please feel free to tell me in what way I have >> misunderstood you. >> >> -- >> Eric >> >> PS - I addressed my previous mail to "R" as that was how you signed the mail to >> which I was responding. If you wish to address replies to "E", that is fine with me, >> but it is not how I have indicated that I wish to be addressed. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: rraszuk@gmail.com [mailto:rraszuk@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk >> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:20 AM >> To: Eric Gray >> Cc: stbryant@cisco.com; UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" >> Importance: High >> >> E, >> >> I think you have misunderstood. >> >> What do you refer as "deployed implementations" as more complex in the >> light of using notion of global label in segment routing ? >> >> That was my point regarding innovation in local vs global label >> allocation paradigm. >> >> r. >> >> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 4:17 PM, Eric Gray wrote: >>> R, >>> >>> I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing about any form >>> of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of making deployed >>> implementations more complex. >>> >>> -- >>> Eric >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk >>> Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM >>> To: stbryant@cisco.com >>> Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org >>> Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" >>> >>> Hi Stewart, >>> >>>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>> >>> Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain >>> wide labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on >>> that too. >>> >>> I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not >>> trivial, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to >>> return same label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the >>> disjoined label ranges it would not be supported. >>> >>> Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. >>> >>> Practically we already have solution for this problem using context >>> labels and personally I do not find sufficient need for another >>> solution for the exact same problem. >>> >>> But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find >>> the principle of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the >>> node which allocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's >>> innovation of using mpls label in new and novel ways. >>> >>> Best regards, >>> R. >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: >>>> On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hi Stewart, >>>>> >>>>>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up. Then >>>>>>> it >>>>>> >>>>>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>>>>> >>>>>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies >>>>>> as to label base and range. >>>>> >>>>> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w. >>>>> >>>>> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find out a >>>>> common block. >>>>> >>>>> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will end >>>>> up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mode. >>>>> >>>> The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of >>>> establishing protocol invariants and designing our >>>> protocols withing the constraints of those invariants. >>>> >>>> It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported >>>> is a private matter, and you seem to wish to break >>>> that invariant. That is a bad idea. >>>> >>>> Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible >>>> in an unspecified (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages >>>> the future of the network that this will be deployed >>>> in, and I do not think that is something the IETF >>>> should support. >>>> >>>> - Stewart From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Tue Nov 26 17:31:35 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id AE7F01A8034 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:31:35 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.087 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id kZqf23PZZHl8 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:31:32 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 8BD811A8032 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 17:31:31 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAS98297; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:31:30 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:30:59 +0000 Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:31:26 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.45]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:31:19 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmlj?= =?gb2312?Q?ation_for_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24g?= =?gb2312?Q?for_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO6YN/slkHHzJR0Uqi4RBXoYfomZo1NEAggABCMICAAAB8gIAABV+AgAAAqRCAAA9nAIAABojwgAA43oCAARhUIA== Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:31:19 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08238846@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08237C9C@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 01:31:35 -0000 RmluZS4gSW4gbXkgZHJhZnQsIGJvdGggaW50cmEtc3VibmV0IGFuZCBpbnRlci1zdWJuZXQgSVAg dHJhZmZpYyBhcmUgZm9yd2FyZGVkIGF0IGxheWVyMyB3aGlsZSBpbiB0aGUgZHJhZnQgeW91IG1l bnRpb25lZCBiZWxvdyBvbmx5IGludGVyLXN1Ym5ldCB0cmFmZmljIHdvdWxkIGJlIGZvcndhcmRl ZCBhdCBsYXllcjMuIFRoZXkgYXJlIHRvdGFsbHkgZGlmZmVyZW50IGFwcHJvYWNoZXMgYW5kIHRo ZXJlZm9yZSBpdCdzIG1lYW5pbmdsZXNzIHRvIHNheSB3aGljaCBvbmUgaXMgZWFzaWVyIG9yIG5v dC4NCg0KWGlhb2h1DQoNCj4gLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQo+ILeivP7IyzogSGVuZGVyaWNr eCwgV2ltIChXaW0pIFttYWlsdG86d2ltLmhlbmRlcmlja3hAYWxjYXRlbC1sdWNlbnQuY29tXQ0K PiC3osvNyrG85DogMjAxM8TqMTHUwjI1yNUgMTk6MTYNCj4gytW8/sjLOiBYdXhpYW9odTsgbDN2 cG5AaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gs63LzTogZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJuZXRAdG9vbHMu 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PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+Pg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiBUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlhdA0K PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPiA+PiA+DQo+ID4NCg0K From jewpon.zhou@huawei.com Tue Nov 26 18:35:13 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6C7CF1AE0DE for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:35:13 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hXUmeskX1hOs for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:35:11 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B91DF1A82E2 for ; Tue, 26 Nov 2013 18:35:10 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAT02167; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:35:08 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:34:40 +0000 Received: from NKGEML408-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.39) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:35:07 +0000 Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.75]) by nkgeml408-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.39]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 10:34:55 +0800 From: "Zhoupeng (Jewpon)" To: "eric.gray@ericsson.com" Subject: RE: L3VPN Digest, Vol 113, Issue 25 Thread-Topic: L3VPN Digest, Vol 113, Issue 25 Thread-Index: AQHO6rsEcdN/EZrugkGrEHibigujcZo4WHDw Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:34:55 +0000 Message-ID: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A4E34B@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.80.97] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mailman-Approved-At: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:03:36 -0800 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 02:35:13 -0000 Hi Eric, Actually, the global label here used is partial global. That means only PEs= in same RG need sense it. Other nodes can be same as before. I agree with Raszuk that we do need some innovation to deal with centralize= d control, such as PCE, SDN etc. The shared label is a kind of centralized = control in some sense. Regards, Zhoupeng Date: Tue, 26 Nov 2013 15:17:06 +0000 From: Eric Gray To: Robert Raszuk , "stbryant@cisco.com" Cc: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Message-ID: <48E1A67CB9CA044EADFEAB87D814BFF6329A9694@eusaamb104.ericsson.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" R, I agree with Stewart and find nothing particularly appealing about any for= m of "innovation" that makes a proposed approach simpler at a cost of makin= g deployed implementations more complex. -- Eric -----Original Message----- From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Robert Raszuk Sent: Tuesday, November 26, 2013 10:12 AM To: stbryant@cisco.com Cc: UTTARO, JAMES; l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Hi Stewart, > It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported is a private=20 > matter, and you seem to wish to break that invariant. That is a bad=20 > idea. Well let's be fair ... there is nothing wrong with using global/domain wide= labels. As you know segment routing mpls forwarding is based on that too. I think using same application label for reasons stated before is not trivi= al, if so we should ask for given VPN_ID a PCE/SDN like device to return sa= me label for N PEs attached to such VPN. Maybe for the disjoined label rang= es it would not be supported. Moreover the granularity could be more then per vrf. Practically we already have solution for this problem using context labels = and personally I do not find sufficient need for another solution for the e= xact same problem. But I - as someone involved with MPLS for a long time - do not find the pri= nciple of MPLS label to be of only local significance to the node which all= ocated it to be sufficient reason to limit one's innovation of using mpls = label in new and novel ways. Best regards, R. On Tue, Nov 26, 2013 at 1:31 PM, Stewart Bryant wrote: > On 25/11/2013 07:41, Mingui Zhang wrote: >> >> Hi Stewart, >> >>>> PEs can reserve some label ranges to be shared before they boot up.=20 >>>> Then it >>> >>> becomes easy for an RG to figure out a common range. >>> >>> Only if the equipment type is the same. h/w varies as to label base=20 >>> and range. >> >> At least we know that the proposal is feasible for PEs with the same h/w= . >> >> For PEs with different h/w, it's still possible that they can find=20 >> out a common block. >> >> If they cannot find a common block, the connection between them will=20 >> end up with failure, then they have to fall back to the non-redundant mo= de. >> > The success of the IETF protocol suite sits on a policy of=20 > establishing protocol invariants and designing our protocols withing=20 > the constraints of those invariants. > > It is an MPLS invariant that: the label range supported is a private=20 > matter, and you seem to wish to break that invariant. That is a bad=20 > idea. > > Sure you can make this work if the h/w is compatible in an unspecified=20 > (in MPLS) way, but that mortgages the future of the network that this=20 > will be deployed in, and I do not think that is something the IETF=20 > should support. > > - Stewart From internet-drafts@ietf.org Wed Nov 27 08:12:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E49231AE01A; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:12:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.9 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id upp_vJGmIPMg; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:12:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5BF5C1ACCE8; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:12:28 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable From: internet-drafts@ietf.org To: i-d-announce@ietf.org Subject: I-D Action: draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-03.txt X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 4.83.p1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <20131127161228.15700.89812.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 08:12:28 -0800 Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 16:12:32 -0000 A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts director= ies. This draft is a work item of the Layer 3 Virtual Private Networks Working = Group of the IETF. Title : Encoding mLDP FECs in the NLRI of BGP MCAST-VPN Routes Author(s) : IJsbrand Wijnands Eric C. Rosen Uwe Joorde Filename : draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-03.txt Pages : 10 Date : 2013-11-27 Abstract: Many service providers offer "BGP/MPLS IP VPN" service to their customers. Existing IETF standards specify the procedures and protocols that a service provider uses in order to offer this service to customers who have IP unicast and IP multicast traffic in their VPNs. It is also desirable to be able to support customers who have MPLS multicast traffic in their VPNs. This document specifies the procedures and protocol extensions that are needed to support customers who use the Multicast Extensions to Label Distribution Protocol (mLDP) as the control protocol for their MPLS multicast traffic. Existing standards do provide some support for customers who use mLDP, but only under a restrictive set of circumstances. This document generalizes the existing support to include all cases where the customer uses mLDP, without any restrictions. The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri There's also a htmlized version available at: http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-03 A diff from the previous version is available at: http://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-l3vpn-mvpn-mldp-nlri-03 Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org. Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at: ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/ From wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com Wed Nov 27 09:53:31 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C21DD1AD8C4 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:53:31 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id fCU-u3lajOV4 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:53:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from ihemail2.lucent.com (ihemail2.lucent.com [135.245.0.35]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CF3911ACCDE for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 09:53:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by ihemail2.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id rARHrMC9002548 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 11:53:24 -0600 (CST) Received: from FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr711wxchhub01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.111]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id rARHrKH6015480 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:53:20 +0100 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.62]) by FR711WXCHHUB01.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.111]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 18:53:20 +0100 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: Xuxiaohu , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?UmU6ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVy?= =?gb2312?B?c2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LXh1LWwzdnBuLXZpcnR1YWwt?= =?gb2312?Q?subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9u?= =?gb2312?B?IE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJu?= =?gb2312?Q?et-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO65mOclO+XvpGKEWnxqZaK/2xHA== Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:53:19 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.41] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.35 Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Nov 2013 17:53:32 -0000 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from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAU09198; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:02:40 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML402-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:02:09 +0000 Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml402-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.241) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:02:39 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.45]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:02:33 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBW?= =?gb2312?B?ZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVh?= =?gb2312?Q?l-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9u?= =?gb2312?B?IE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJu?= =?gb2312?Q?et-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO65mOclO+XvpGKEWnxqZaK/2xHJo572hg Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:02:33 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0823908D@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:02:45 -0000 DQoNCj4gLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQo+ILeivP7IyzogSGVuZGVyaWNreCwgV2ltIChXaW0p 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([10.98.56.37]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 15:33:30 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0?= =?gb2312?B?OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LXh1LWwzdnBu?= =?gb2312?Q?-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcg?= =?gb2312?B?VmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0LXh1LWwzdnBuLXZpcnR1?= =?gb2312?Q?al-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO7ADmioSpeazU1UqCRNMgYnS6Cpo6LElQ Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 07:33:29 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE0823913B@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 07:33:56 -0000 DQoNCj4gLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQo+ILeivP7IyzogSGVuZGVyaWNreCwgV2ltIChXaW0p IFttYWlsdG86d2ltLmhlbmRlcmlja3hAYWxjYXRlbC1sdWNlbnQuY29tXQ0KPiC3osvNyrG85Dog MjAxM8TqMTHUwjI4yNUgMTQ6MTMNCj4gytW8/sjLOiBYdXhpYW9odTsgbDN2cG5AaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4gs63LzTogZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJuZXRAdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g 1vfM4jogUmU6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9u IE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3INCj4gZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJuZXQtMDIudHh0 DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IE9uIDI4LzExLzEzIDA0OjAyLCAiWHV4aWFvaHUiIDx4dXhpYW9odUBo dWF3ZWkuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+ID4NCj4gPg0KPiA+PiAtLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+LS0tLS0N Cj4gPj4gt6K8/sjLOiBIZW5kZXJpY2t4LCBXaW0gKFdpbSkNCj4gW21haWx0bzp3aW0uaGVuZGVy 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ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 65C871AE1D7 for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:44:37 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id x4lHrPvsjcnZ for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [135.245.0.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 2887E1AE1DD for ; Wed, 27 Nov 2013 23:44:34 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id rAS7iQWW013790 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 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Thu, 28 Nov 2013 07:44:23 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.40] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: <88D2290FC328974296E8DBAB332994CE@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.33 Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 07:44:37 -0000 DQoNCk9uIDI4LzExLzEzIDA4OjMzLCAiWHV4aWFvaHUiIDx4dXhpYW9odUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPiB3 cm90ZToNCg0KPg0KPg0KPj4gLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQo+PiC3orz+yMs6IEhlbmRlcmlj a3gsIFdpbSAoV2ltKSBbbWFpbHRvOndpbS5oZW5kZXJpY2t4QGFsY2F0ZWwtbHVjZW50LmNvbV0N Cj4+ILeiy83KsbzkOiAyMDEzxOoxMdTCMjjI1SAxNDoxMw0KPj4gytW8/sjLOiBYdXhpYW9odTsg 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X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:45:45 -0000 DQoNCj4gLS0tLS3Tyrz+1K28/i0tLS0tDQo+ILeivP7IyzogSGVuZGVyaWNreCwgV2ltIChXaW0p IFttYWlsdG86d2ltLmhlbmRlcmlja3hAYWxjYXRlbC1sdWNlbnQuY29tXQ0KPiC3osvNyrG85Dog MjAxM8TqMTHUwjI4yNUgMTU6NDQNCj4gytW8/sjLOiBYdXhpYW9odTsgbDN2cG5AaWV0Zi5vcmcN Cj4gs63LzTogZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJuZXRAdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4g 1vfM4jogUmU6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6ILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBW ZXJzaW9uDQo+IE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJuZXQt MDIudHh0DQo+IA0KPiANCj4gDQo+IE9uIDI4LzExLzEzIDA4OjMzLCAiWHV4aWFvaHUiIDx4dXhp YW9odUBodWF3ZWkuY29tPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+ID4NCj4gPg0KPiA+PiAtLS0tLdPKvP7Urbz+ LS0tLS0NCj4gPj4gt6K8/sjLOiBIZW5kZXJpY2t4LCBXaW0gKFdpbSkNCj4gW21haWx0bzp3aW0u 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YSBjZW50ZXIgaW50ZXJjb25uZWN0Lg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+Pg0KPiA+PiA+ PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+Pg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+Pg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+ PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+Pg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiBQbGVhc2Ugbm90ZSB0 aGF0IGl0IG1heSB0YWtlIGEgY291cGxlIG9mIG1pbnV0ZXMNCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4g Pj4gPj5mcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24gIHVudGlsIHRoZSBodG1saXplZA0KPiA+ PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PnZlcnNpb24gYW5kIGRpZmYgYXJlIGF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdCB0 b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4NCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4NCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4g Pj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gVGhlIElFVEYgU2VjcmV0YXJpYXQNCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4g Pg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4g Pj4gPg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPg0KPiA+DQoNCg== From bruno.decraene@orange.com Thu Nov 28 01:38:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 522461ADEA6 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:38:06 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.299 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.299 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EqeMvUUD7kEJ for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5AF971ADBD5 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 01:38:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.3]) by omfedm11.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id C5F693B42CE; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:38:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.183]) by omfedm07.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id ABB224C0B1; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:38:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a441:e6a9:6143:6f0f]) by PEXCVZYH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:38:02 +0100 From: To: Mingui Zhang Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO4SIRsyqoYXqpzk6PHbocPpEtZZoqX9ZQgBARl0A= Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 09:38:01 +0000 Message-ID: <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF3A@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF3A@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.11.20.60015 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 09:38:06 -0000 Hi Mingui, Please find my comments inline [Bruno2] >From: Mingui Zhang [mailto:zhangmingui@huawei.com] >Sent: Monday, November= 18, 2013 10:32 AM > >Hi Bruno, > >Please find my comments inline below [Mingui]. > [...] > >>[Bruno] First, consider that in a "POP" there may be multiple PE, i.e. mo= re >than >>the 2 required for the dual homing. Let's say 5 PE. >>The number of RG is flexible, but this also comes with drawbacks. >>One option is to have a single RG. In this case, you indeed need a single >vNH but >>you require global label allocation for the perimeter of those 5 PE. Which >roughly >>divide the available label space by 5. > >[Mingui] That is a misinterpretation. Actually, all 5 PEs share the same >label range (e.g., 1~1100) rather than dividing the label space. There is = no >scaling issue. [Bruno2] Let's assume: - 5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels (e.g., 1~1100). - 5 VPNs in connect to this group of PE, 2 of which being dual-homed (VPN1 = & VPN2). With label sharing: Label:1 2 3 4 5 PE1 VPN1 x x x x=09 PE2 VPN1 VPN2 x x x PE3 x VPN2 x x x=09 PE4 x x VPN3 x x PE5 x x x VPN4 VPN5 All labels marked as "x" are burned/lost because of the label sharing. Without label sharing: Label:1 2 3 4 5 PE1 VPN1=09=09=09=09=09 PE2 VPN1 VPN2=09=09=09 PE3 VPN2 VPN2=09=09=09=09 PE4 VPN3=09=20=09=09=09=20 PE5 VPN4 VPN5=09=20=09=20=09=20 Here no label is lost. So, in that specific example, 7 labels*PE are used out of 25 while 18 are l= ost. Hence you need/use a label space which is 3.5 times bigger. (25/7) > >>Then if this represents a scaling issue, I >>guess you can call for bigger labels, e.g. by stacking 2 labels. But this >requires >>more lookup work in the forwarding plane. > >[Mingui] As explained above, it does not need multiple lookup. Remember, we >do not want to change the forwarding plane. [Bruno2] I was referring to a different draft: draft-renwei-l3vpn-big-label= -00 >>Roughly equivalent to the label >>context space that you did not want in the first time... >>Another option is to have one RG per couple of PE. In this case you need = 10 >vNH >>(IINM). That's roughly the number of PE but that's still *3 the number of >states >>in the IGP so I think the document should talk about this. > >[Mingui] On one hand, the above extreme case happens only in theory. The >reason we scope the document to talk about 2 PEs is that duel homing is the >BCP. Think about the real deployment, I believe most POPs will use two PEs >for the redundant connection. On the other hand, even if you have 5 PEs in >one POP, just put them into one RG. Therefore, the increase of the number = of >states in the IGP is not so big. > >[Mingui] But I agree with your advice that we can spend some words to >address this scaling issue in the document. [Bruno2] ok, thanks. > >>>[Mingui] All in all, if customers really want the resilience, those >>>routes via the primary PE SHOULD NOT be installed in the FIBs of backup >PEs. >> >>[Bruno] Good point. So you probably should add this to the document. > >[Mingui] Sure. > >>>[Mingui] By the way, the scenario you designed may suffer from >>>transient loop issue. Imagine that the more specific routes fails on >>>the primary PE, the primary PE will resort to the backup PE. At that >>>time, it's probably that the backup PE is unaware of the failure. It >>>will send packet back to the primary PE. Oops, loop occurs. Following >>>the above "SHOULD NOT be installed" requirement, such kind of loops can = be >>avoided. >> >>[Bruno] You are right. I suspect that RFC 4364 implies that a PE should n= ot >>reflect back to the core, a VPN packet received from the core. But I >haven't >>checked. > >[Mingui] OK. How about the local-repair and label-retention technique? With >that technique, the primary PE may cache the route advertised by the backup >PE and use it when the route it learns from the CE fails. I guess this iss= ue >is kind of off the track. We can talk more about it between us two. > >>[Bruno] Sure. But the solution relies on global VPN labels which is not >what is >>deployed today. So it all depends on whether you will be able to deploy >such >>change before. Which will requires all implementations to do it while dra= ft >minto >>has no such dependency. > >[Mingui] The solution does not rely on *global* VPN labels. They are still >locally assigned in the scope of the RG. > >>> If customers want this feature, I promise you will see this feature >>>supported by products in several months. >> >>[Bruno] Ok. But I guess you mean a subset of the products currently >deployed. >>There may be multiple vendors/implementations in a given network. And some >>implementations are sometimes even considered as legacy (by the vendor). > >[Mingui] For those legacy products, operators can update their software. [Bruno2] not always. There is public/ietf example for this: draft-l3vpn-leg= acy-rtc-00 Bruno > If >bare legacy PEs and label-sharing PEs are interconnected, ICCP connection >will not be established. It allows PEs falls back to the non-redundant >connection. For those label-sharing PEs from different vendors, if they >implement the same RFC, they are supposed to be interoperable. > >>>[Mingui] c. The delegation of protector is topology dependent. I guess >the >>>number of possible alternative paths held by the protector is a much >>>smaller set of all possible alternative paths. >> >>#Bruno: Indeed, currently the location of the protector is topology >independent. >>Simply because this relies on the existing FRR mechanism used in the core >and >>this FRR may have coverage limitations (e.g. LFA). There are plans to >remove >>this limitation. >>I'm not sure to understand your second point (second sentence). > >[Mingui] The central protector is delegated as the PLR, right? This further >reduces the coverage of LFA. As we know, a free LFA can have any router as >the PLR. > >Thanks, >Mingui ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. From wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com Thu Nov 28 02:46:09 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5963B1ADFF3 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:46:09 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ALBESNHFL_cn for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:46:05 -0800 (PST) Received: from ihemail4.lucent.com (ihemail4.lucent.com [135.245.0.39]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DECE21AD939 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 02:46:04 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-42.lucent.com [135.239.2.42]) by ihemail4.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id rASAjv5b024525 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 04:45:59 -0600 (CST) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr712usmtp2.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id rASAjtt1008858 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:45:57 +0100 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.62]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:45:56 +0100 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: Xuxiaohu , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?UmU6ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDog?= =?gb2312?B?ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRy?= =?gb2312?Q?aft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPA=?= =?gb2312?B?uLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0?= =?gb2312?Q?-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO7CcEjESOeExXCEGgUsB3t3gT9A== Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:45:56 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.39 Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 10:46:09 -0000 UGxlYXNlIGxvb2sgYXQgdGhlIFZSRiB0YWJsZSBpbnN0YW5jZSBpbiB0aGF0IGV4YW1wbGUuIFRo 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LmlldGYub3JnLg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4NCj4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ ID4+ID4+ID4+IFRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+ DQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+ PiA+PiA+DQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+PiA+PiA+DQo+PiA+DQo+DQoNCg== From jewpon.zhou@huawei.com Thu Nov 28 03:20:44 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4E101AE033 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:20:44 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id FrMPMkqH4doV for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:20:41 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 01D691ADFD4 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 03:20:40 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAU52492; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:20:39 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML406-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:20:03 +0000 Received: from nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.36) by lhreml406-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.243) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:20:36 +0000 Received: from NKGEML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.6.75]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 19:20:23 +0800 From: "Zhoupeng (Jewpon)" To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7CvU5Pk1cB+qj0i4HhLsFMoz7Q== Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:20:22 +0000 Message-ID: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A4E7BD@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.80.97] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:11:37 -0800 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 11:20:44 -0000 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DQpUaGFuayB5b3UuDQoNCg0KDQotLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0NCg0KU3Vi amVjdDogRGlnZXN0IEZvb3Rlcg0KDQpfX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19f X19fX19fX19fX19fXw0KTDNWUE4gbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpMM1ZQTkBpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6 Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sM3Zwbg0KDQoNCi0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0t LS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLS0tLQ0KDQpFbmQgb2YgTDNWUE4gRGlnZXN0LCBWb2wgMTEzLCBJc3N1ZSAz Mg0KKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioqKioNCg== From ju1738@att.com Thu Nov 28 08:20:19 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id ABDFB1AE07C for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 08:20:19 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.601 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.601 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from 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Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7CvU5Pk1cB+qj0i4HhLsFMoz7Zo60b+Q Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 16:19:56 +0000 Message-ID: References: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A4E7BD@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A4E7BD@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.91.71] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public, General SSNFP Patterns X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=cZ5lWA/M c=1 sm=0 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=P7JGrYgE33UA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=2Wh_XiZiiD8A:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=ZPSk82zQDygA:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=6CO8hjaBWl0A:10 a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=z9tbli-vAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=Vn9VZx-PYHXQnGTAm_QA:9 a=UAVRJdkkkM0A:] X-AnalysisOut: [10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a=oAXR_kdF8uMA:10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=RLRlaeNvDH2o803_:21 a=_DQyPyy03ZrwZmbA:21 a=lSEh-1_Qnumbf] X-AnalysisOut: [PaY:21] Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 16:20:19 -0000 Hmm.. So my first thought here is that we are now basing the performance of= this technology on assumptions about how customers are homed to PEs, this = essentially becomes a gating factor. I can tell you that there are features= that customers utilize which spread attachment circuits for a given VPN am= ong more than two PEs in a POP. Utilizing load balancing and diversificatio= n designs attachment circuits for a given VPN to be spread across 6 PEs in = a given POP. Have you canvassed SPs about how spreading for a VPN is done o= r is the scenario described below a hope/wish? Instead of guessing it would= be better to get facts. -----Original Message----- From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zhoupeng (Jewpon) Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 6:20 AM To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Hi, Bruno, First, 5 PEs in a POP hardly happens in real world. In most cases, there ar= e two PEs in a POP which usually lie in different places for the sake of di= saster tolerant. Then, the RG can be design as below:=20 PE1 and PE2 in RG1 which server VPN1, VPN1 use label L1,say 100; PE2 and PE3 in RG2 which server VPN2, VPN2 use label L2,say 101; Label 100 and 101 can be allocated from pre-allocated label block, say 100-= 4000. VPN3 to VPN5 is not dual-homed, so the label are allocated as usual, for ex= ample:=20 PE4 allocates label 100011 for VPN3, PE5 allocates label 100011 for VPN4, PE5 allocates label 100012 for VPN5, The labels used by PE5 for VPN4,VPN5 are not related with labels on PE1 and= PE2. Even if there is VPN6 which is dual-homed to PE3 and PE4, the label 100 can= be used for the VPN6 as long as it is not used by other VPN or other servi= ces on PE3 and PE4. PE3 and PE4 no need to perceive how PE1/PE2 allocate th= eir labels. So the shared label is only limited to the RG members. In extreme case, Suppose :=20 VPN1 is dual-homed to PE1 and PE2; VPN2 is dual-homed to PE2 and PE3; VPN3 is dual-homed to PE3 and PE4; VPN4 is dual-homed to PE4 and PE5; VPN5 is dual-homed to PE5 and PE1; We can design as below: PE1 and PE2 in RG1 for VPN1 and use label L1,say 100; PE2 and PE3 in RG2 for VPN2 and use label L2,say 101; PE3 and PE4 in RG3 for VPN3 and use label L1,say 100; PE4 and PE5 in RG4 for VPN4 and use label L2,say 101; PE5 and PE1 in RG5 for VPN5 and use label L3,say 102; So, PE1 need 2 labels: 100, 102 PE2 need 2 labels: 100, 101 PE3 need 2 labels: 100, 101 PE4 need 2 labels: 100, 101 PE5 need 2 labels: 101, 102 The label 100 on PE5 cannot be shared between PE1 and PE5,but it can still = be used for other RG, for example, RG6 between PE5 and PE3, if there is new= VPN dual-homed to PE5 and PE3. In a word, the shared label is not-so-globe and limited in the specified RG= members. The labels amount needed will not significant increase due to the= draft. regards=1B$B!$=1B(B Zhou Peng Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 09:38:01 +0000 From: To: Mingui Zhang Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Message-ID: <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070= A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> =09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Hi Mingui, Please find my comments inline [Bruno2] >From: Mingui Zhang [mailto:zhangmingui@huawei.com] >Sent: Monday,=20 >November 18, 2013 10:32 AM > >Hi Bruno, > >Please find my comments inline below [Mingui]. > [...] > >>[Bruno] First, consider that in a "POP" there may be multiple PE, i.e.=20 >>more >than >>the 2 required for the dual homing. Let's say 5 PE. >>The number of RG is flexible, but this also comes with drawbacks. >>One option is to have a single RG. In this case, you indeed need a=20 >>single >vNH but >>you require global label allocation for the perimeter of those 5 PE.=20 >>Which >roughly >>divide the available label space by 5. > >[Mingui] That is a misinterpretation. Actually, all 5 PEs share the=20 >same label range (e.g., 1~1100) rather than dividing the label space.=20 >There is no scaling issue. [Bruno2] Let's assume: - 5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels (e.g., 1~1100). - 5 VPNs in connect to this group of PE, 2 of which being dual-homed (VPN1 = & VPN2). With label sharing: Label:1 2 3 4 5 PE1 VPN1 x x x x=09 PE2 VPN1 VPN2 x x x PE3 x VPN2 x x x=09 PE4 x x VPN3 x x PE5 x x x VPN4 VPN5 All labels marked as "x" are burned/lost because of the label sharing. Without label sharing: Label:1 2 3 4 5 PE1 VPN1 =09 PE2 VPN1 VPN2 =09 PE3 VPN2 VPN2 =09 PE4 VPN3 =20 PE5 VPN4 VPN5 =20 Here no label is lost. So, in that specific example, 7 labels*PE are used out of 25 while 18 are l= ost. Hence you need/use a label space which is 3.5 times bigger. (25/7) > >>Then if this represents a scaling issue, I guess you can call for=20 >>bigger labels, e.g. by stacking 2 labels. But this >requires >>more lookup work in the forwarding plane. > >[Mingui] As explained above, it does not need multiple lookup.=20 >Remember, we do not want to change the forwarding plane. [Bruno2] I was referring to a different draft: draft-renwei-l3vpn-big-label= -00 >>Roughly equivalent to the label >>context space that you did not want in the first time... >>Another option is to have one RG per couple of PE. In this case you=20 >>need 10 >vNH >>(IINM). That's roughly the number of PE but that's still *3 the number=20 >>of >states >>in the IGP so I think the document should talk about this. > >[Mingui] On one hand, the above extreme case happens only in theory.=20 >The reason we scope the document to talk about 2 PEs is that duel=20 >homing is the BCP. Think about the real deployment, I believe most POPs=20 >will use two PEs for the redundant connection. On the other hand, even=20 >if you have 5 PEs in one POP, just put them into one RG. Therefore, the=20 >increase of the number of states in the IGP is not so big. > >[Mingui] But I agree with your advice that we can spend some words to=20 >address this scaling issue in the document. [Bruno2] ok, thanks. > >>>[Mingui] All in all, if customers really want the resilience, those=20 >>>routes via the primary PE SHOULD NOT be installed in the FIBs of=20 >>>backup >PEs. >> >>[Bruno] Good point. So you probably should add this to the document. > >[Mingui] Sure. > >>>[Mingui] By the way, the scenario you designed may suffer from=20 >>>transient loop issue. Imagine that the more specific routes fails on=20 >>>the primary PE, the primary PE will resort to the backup PE. At that=20 >>>time, it's probably that the backup PE is unaware of the failure. It=20 >>>will send packet back to the primary PE. Oops, loop occurs. Following=20 >>>the above "SHOULD NOT be installed" requirement, such kind of loops=20 >>>can be >>avoided. >> >>[Bruno] You are right. I suspect that RFC 4364 implies that a PE=20 >>should not reflect back to the core, a VPN packet received from the=20 >>core. But I >haven't >>checked. > >[Mingui] OK. How about the local-repair and label-retention technique?=20 >With that technique, the primary PE may cache the route advertised by=20 >the backup PE and use it when the route it learns from the CE fails. I=20 >guess this issue is kind of off the track. We can talk more about it betwe= en us two. > >>[Bruno] Sure. But the solution relies on global VPN labels which is=20 >>not >what is >>deployed today. So it all depends on whether you will be able to=20 >>deploy >such >>change before. Which will requires all implementations to do it while=20 >>draft >minto >>has no such dependency. > >[Mingui] The solution does not rely on *global* VPN labels. They are=20 >still locally assigned in the scope of the RG. > >>> If customers want this feature, I promise you will see this feature=20 >>>supported by products in several months. >> >>[Bruno] Ok. But I guess you mean a subset of the products currently >deployed. >>There may be multiple vendors/implementations in a given network. And=20 >>some implementations are sometimes even considered as legacy (by the vend= or). > >[Mingui] For those legacy products, operators can update their software. [Bruno2] not always. There is public/ietf example for this: draft-l3vpn-leg= acy-rtc-00 Bruno > If >bare legacy PEs and label-sharing PEs are interconnected, ICCP=20 >connection will not be established. It allows PEs falls back to the=20 >non-redundant connection. For those label-sharing PEs from different=20 >vendors, if they implement the same RFC, they are supposed to be interoper= able. > >>>[Mingui] c. The delegation of protector is topology dependent. I guess >the >>>number of possible alternative paths held by the protector is a much=20 >>>smaller set of all possible alternative paths. >> >>#Bruno: Indeed, currently the location of the protector is topology >independent. >>Simply because this relies on the existing FRR mechanism used in the=20 >>core >and >>this FRR may have coverage limitations (e.g. LFA). There are plans to >remove >>this limitation. >>I'm not sure to understand your second point (second sentence). > >[Mingui] The central protector is delegated as the PLR, right? This=20 >further reduces the coverage of LFA. As we know, a free LFA can have=20 >any router as the PLR. > >Thanks, >Mingui ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou = copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez= le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Le= s messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline to= ute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used= or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. 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Thank you. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ L3VPN mailing list L3VPN@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/l3vpn ------------------------------ End of L3VPN Digest, Vol 113, Issue 32 ************************************** From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Thu Nov 28 17:35:42 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D75211AE265 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 17:35:42 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.087 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost 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14.03.0158.001; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:35:29 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0?= =?gb2312?B?OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNhdGlvbiBmb3Ig?= =?gb2312?Q?draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPA=?= =?gb2312?B?uLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRpb24gZm9yIGRyYWZ0?= =?gb2312?Q?-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO7CcEjESOeExXCEGgUsB3t3gT9Jo7Z0eg Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 01:35:28 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE08239510@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: 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ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ IFRoZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4g Pj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPg0K PiA+DQoNCg== From zhangmingui@huawei.com Thu Nov 28 18:16:45 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id EB7AE1AE09B for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:16:45 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YreaoRVXxd2S for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:16:44 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E74301AE075 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:16:43 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg02-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id AYK80459; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:16:42 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:15:54 +0000 Received: from NKGEML410-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.41) by lhreml401-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.240) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:16:27 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml410-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.41]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 10:16:21 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO4SIRsyqoYXqpzk6PHbocPpEtZZoqX9ZQgBARl0CAAQk0AA== Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:16:20 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368C4ED@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF3A@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> In-Reply-To: <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:16:46 -0000 Hi Bruno,=20 So you suppose the label used in an RG cannot be used again out of the RG. = That is not correct. Please find my comments inline [Mingui]. >[Bruno2] Let's assume: >- 5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels (e.g., 1~1100)= . >- 5 VPNs in connect to this group of PE, 2 of which being dual-homed (VPN1= & >VPN2). > >With label sharing: >Label:1 2 3 4 5 > >PE1 VPN1 x x x x >PE2 VPN1 VPN2 x x x >PE3 x VPN2 x x x >PE4 x x VPN3 x x >PE5 x x x VPN4 VPN5 > >All labels marked as "x" are burned/lost because of the label sharing. [Mingui] Not true. Where we got this constraint? For an explicitly example,= PE4 can well use label 1,2,4,5.=20 [Mingui] I anticipate you assume PE1~PE5 are forming an RG, so that once a = label is used it is used across the RG. I need to point out that the unit o= f "RG" is independent of PEs. It depends on the VPN connections. I saw Zhou= Peng has already given examples on this point.=20 >[Bruno2] not always. There is public/ietf example for this: >draft-l3vpn-legacy-rtc-00 [Mingui] It's designed to be incrementally deployable in the network. The t= rick is confined in the RG. Other P and PE routers are unaware of the chang= e. [Mingui] I guess you may change to imagine the scenario that operator need = a legacy PE and a label sharing PE form an RG. Let's consider the analogy t= hat the operator interconnects two switches using LAG while one of them doe= s not support LAG at all. :)=20 [Mingui] Thanks for continuing the discussion. I think the discussion about= label ranges reservation in another thread is related to our discussion. T= o my understanding, the conclusion is that it's not OK to require a label b= lock to be supported across multiple PEs. A possible escape is to resort to= a higher-layer authorized entity out of the RG to assign the label. Thanks, Mingui From wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com Thu Nov 28 20:59:32 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C0941AE0C1 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:59:32 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id UpukCr3G9M9g for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:59:29 -0800 (PST) Received: from ihemail1.lucent.com (ihemail1.lucent.com [135.245.0.33]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 3A7E21AE18C for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 20:59:28 -0800 (PST) Received: from fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (h135-239-2-122.lucent.com [135.239.2.122]) by ihemail1.lucent.com (8.13.8/IER-o) with ESMTP id rAT4xKHj028299 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=FAIL); Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:59:23 -0600 (CST) Received: from FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (fr712wxchhub03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com [135.239.2.74]) by fr711usmtp1.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com (GMO) with ESMTP id rAT4xGoQ015169 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=AES128-SHA bits=128 verify=FAIL); Fri, 29 Nov 2013 05:59:20 +0100 Received: from FR711WXCHMBA07.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([169.254.3.62]) by FR712WXCHHUB03.zeu.alcatel-lucent.com ([135.239.2.74]) with mapi id 14.02.0247.003; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 05:59:18 +0100 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: Xuxiaohu , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?UmU6ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDog?= =?gb2312?B?ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9u?= =?gb2312?Q?_for_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPA=?= =?gb2312?B?uLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZv?= =?gb2312?Q?r_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO7L/Cz0GeFUIbg0utr8KyXAnLUA== Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 04:59:18 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.38] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.57 on 135.245.2.33 Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 04:59:32 -0000 SSBiZWxpZXZlIHdlIGhhdmUgYSBkaXNhZ3JlZW1lbnQgaGVyZS4gVGhlIHRyYWNlIHJvdXRlIGlz 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Cj4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ID4+ID4NCj4+ID4NCj4NCg0K From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Thu Nov 28 21:53:51 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 151021AE114 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 21:53:51 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.901 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.901 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nrEgyZ_-uj-J for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 21:53:49 -0800 (PST) Received: from usevmg20.ericsson.net (usevmg20.ericsson.net [198.24.6.45]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9E7BE1AE0D6 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 21:53:49 -0800 (PST) X-AuditID: c618062d-b7f278e000005a8f-b2-52982be8ad1e Received: from EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se (Unknown_Domain [147.117.188.81]) by usevmg20.ericsson.net (Symantec Mail Security) with SMTP id E6.E3.23183.9EB28925; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:53:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from EUSAAMB109.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.126]) by EUSAAHC003.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.81]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 00:53:46 -0500 From: Jakob Heitz To: Mingui Zhang Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7B2OWOFauJJXEky43e96FnFGeJo7zZIA///o7kc= Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 05:53:45 +0000 Message-ID: <67847892-1927-44F0-AD4F-D104EA64A332@ericsson.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF3A@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368C4ED@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368C4ED@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFjrJLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPoO5L7RlBBrt2i1r82DGH2eLsfH+L K3Mb2RyYPVqOvGX1WLLkJ5NHy7OTbAHMUVw2Kak5mWWpRfp2CVwZF24cYy1oF6rovriSrYHx CG8XIyeHhICJxIoHlxkhbDGJC/fWs3UxcnEICRxhlLjUep4JwlnOKNHy9AcTSBWbgI7Et+td zCC2iICmxMuvV9i7GDk4mAUSJLZPVgQJCwsES9xbc4wVoiRE4vvBl4wQtpXE0TUHWEBsFgFV iZ8XFoKN4RWwl9j0dB1YXEhgA6vE1ctFICM5BcIkek9WgoQZgW77fmoN2AXMAuISt57MZ4K4 WUBiyZ7zzBC2qMTLx/9YIWp0JBbs/sQGYWtLLFv4GmqVoMTJmU9YJjCKzkIyahaSlllIWmYh aVnAyLKKkaO0OLUsN93IYBMjMDqOSbDp7mDc89LyEKM0B4uSOO+Xt85BQgLpiSWp2ampBalF 8UWlOanFhxiZODilGhgLFXhZv3ln2eqXXXdy63ge2CkRInP94PbEB/LvAiRC/ijEx9QYBjcu lcx8J353p+nFmVU2gpvj1kfcFclr013JkWcWLdclrmUkxpgTuueYnIM904PcLXbbFk3aztt4 b4HAr+QOox2nptufnGvV/lRwl6Wr5fsMN8MPW1aJ8q3k2vPpZ1SbtBJLcUaioRZzUXEiACha MaRcAgAA Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 05:53:51 -0000 I any PE is part of 2 RGs, then those RGs can not have overlapping label sp= aces.=20 -- Jakob Heitz. On Nov 28, 2013, at 6:16 PM, "Mingui Zhang" wrote: > Hi Bruno,=20 >=20 > So you suppose the label used in an RG cannot be used again out of the RG= . That is not correct. > Please find my comments inline [Mingui]. >=20 > >> [Bruno2] Let's assume: >> - 5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels (e.g., 1~110= 0). >> - 5 VPNs in connect to this group of PE, 2 of which being dual-homed (VP= N1 & >> VPN2). >>=20 >> With label sharing: >> Label:1 2 3 4 5 >>=20 >> PE1 VPN1 x x x x >> PE2 VPN1 VPN2 x x x >> PE3 x VPN2 x x x >> PE4 x x VPN3 x x >> PE5 x x x VPN4 VPN5 >>=20 >> All labels marked as "x" are burned/lost because of the label sharing. >=20 > [Mingui] Not true. Where we got this constraint? For an explicitly exampl= e, PE4 can well use label 1,2,4,5.=20 >=20 > [Mingui] I anticipate you assume PE1~PE5 are forming an RG, so that once = a label is used it is used across the RG. I need to point out that the unit= of "RG" is independent of PEs. It depends on the VPN connections. I saw Zh= ou Peng has already given examples on this point.=20 >=20 > >=20 >> [Bruno2] not always. There is public/ietf example for this: >> draft-l3vpn-legacy-rtc-00 >=20 > [Mingui] It's designed to be incrementally deployable in the network. The= trick is confined in the RG. Other P and PE routers are unaware of the cha= nge. >=20 > [Mingui] I guess you may change to imagine the scenario that operator nee= d a legacy PE and a label sharing PE form an RG. Let's consider the analogy= that the operator interconnects two switches using LAG while one of them d= oes not support LAG at all. :)=20 >=20 > [Mingui] Thanks for continuing the discussion. I think the discussion abo= ut label ranges reservation in another thread is related to our discussion.= To my understanding, the conclusion is that it's not OK to require a label= block to be supported across multiple PEs. A possible escape is to resort = to a higher-layer authorized entity out of the RG to assign the label. >=20 > Thanks, > Mingui From zhangmingui@huawei.com Thu Nov 28 22:49:40 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A02E31AE131 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:49:40 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.202 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.202 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id RcOTXbINXS5j for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:49:39 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C39571A1F71 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:49:38 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAV25222; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:49:36 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML404-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:49:03 +0000 Received: from nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.40) by lhreml404-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.218) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:49:35 +0000 Received: from NKGEML508-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.7.180]) by nkgeml409-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.40]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:49:28 +0800 From: Mingui Zhang To: Jakob Heitz Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7MeCnrD5fUtElEm43lvaoTS5vpo7wSNw Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:49:27 +0000 Message-ID: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368C593@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF3A@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup>, <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368C4ED@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <67847892-1927-44F0-AD4F-D104EA64A332@ericsson.com> In-Reply-To: <67847892-1927-44F0-AD4F-D104EA64A332@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US, zh-CN Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.102.175] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:49:40 -0000 Suppose RG1=3D(PE1,PE2) using label space 1~5, RG2=3D(PE2, PE3) using label= space 6~10. So PE2 is in 2 RGs. But, PE1 can well use label space 6~10 for other RG, say RG3 and PE3 can us= e label space 1~5 for RG4.=20 Thanks, Mingui >-----Original Message----- >From: Jakob Heitz [mailto:jakob.heitz@ericsson.com] >Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 1:54 PM >To: Mingui Zhang >Cc: bruno.decraene@orange.com; l3vpn@ietf.org >Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE >protection" > >I any PE is part of 2 RGs, then those RGs can not have overlapping label s= paces. > >-- >Jakob Heitz. > > >On Nov 28, 2013, at 6:16 PM, "Mingui Zhang" >wrote: > >> Hi Bruno, >> >> So you suppose the label used in an RG cannot be used again out of the R= G. >That is not correct. >> Please find my comments inline [Mingui]. >> >> >>> [Bruno2] Let's assume: >>> - 5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels (e.g., 1~11= 00). >>> - 5 VPNs in connect to this group of PE, 2 of which being dual-homed >>> (VPN1 & VPN2). >>> >>> With label sharing: >>> Label:1 2 3 4 5 >>> >>> PE1 VPN1 x x x x >>> PE2 VPN1 VPN2 x x x >>> PE3 x VPN2 x x x >>> PE4 x x VPN3 x x >>> PE5 x x x VPN4 VPN5 >>> >>> All labels marked as "x" are burned/lost because of the label sharing. >> >> [Mingui] Not true. Where we got this constraint? For an explicitly examp= le, >PE4 can well use label 1,2,4,5. >> >> [Mingui] I anticipate you assume PE1~PE5 are forming an RG, so that once= a >label is used it is used across the RG. I need to point out that the unit = of "RG" is >independent of PEs. It depends on the VPN connections. I saw Zhou Peng has >already given examples on this point. >> >> >> >>> [Bruno2] not always. There is public/ietf example for this: >>> draft-l3vpn-legacy-rtc-00 >> >> [Mingui] It's designed to be incrementally deployable in the network. Th= e trick >is confined in the RG. Other P and PE routers are unaware of the change. >> >> [Mingui] I guess you may change to imagine the scenario that operator >> need a legacy PE and a label sharing PE form an RG. Let's consider the >> analogy that the operator interconnects two switches using LAG while >> one of them does not support LAG at all. :) >> >> [Mingui] Thanks for continuing the discussion. I think the discussion ab= out label >ranges reservation in another thread is related to our discussion. To my >understanding, the conclusion is that it's not OK to require a label block= to be >supported across multiple PEs. A possible escape is to resort to a higher-= layer >authorized entity out of the RG to assign the label. >> >> Thanks, >> Mingui From xuxiaohu@huawei.com Thu Nov 28 22:57:06 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F09E91AE12D for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:57:05 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: 2.087 X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.087 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id nKtM4lajjz5T for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:57:02 -0800 (PST) Received: from lhrrgout.huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [194.213.3.17]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4F1951ADF77 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 22:57:01 -0800 (PST) Received: from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml203-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAV25743; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:56:59 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML403-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) by lhreml203-edg.huawei.com (172.18.7.221) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:56:23 +0000 Received: from nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.36) by lhreml403-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.217) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:56:58 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.45]) by nkgeml405-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.36]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 14:56:53 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0?= =?gb2312?B?OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiBOZXcgVmVyc2lvbiBOb3RpZmljYXRp?= =?gb2312?Q?on_for_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPA=?= =?gb2312?B?uLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90aWZpY2F0aW9uIGZv?= =?gb2312?Q?r_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO7L/Cz0GeFUIbg0utr8KyXAnLUJo7uzQw Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:56:51 +0000 Message-ID: <1FEE3F8F5CCDE64C9A8E8F4AD27C19EE082395A5@NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.98.134] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Cc: "draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet@tools.ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: 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Fri, 29 Nov 2013 08:55:09 +0100 From: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" To: Xuxiaohu , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?UmU6ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDog?= =?gb2312?B?ILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlm?= =?gb2312?B?aWNhdGlvbiBmb3IgZHJhZnQteHUtbDN2cG4tdmlydHVhbC1zdWJuZXQtMDIu?= =?gb2312?Q?txt?= Thread-Topic: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPA=?= =?gb2312?B?uLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6IE5ldyBWZXJzaW9uIE5vdGlmaWNh?= =?gb2312?Q?tion_for_draft-xu-l3vpn-virtual-subnet-02.txt?= Thread-Index: AQHO7NhSDCBZ5IM8DEaFcZGW93KEFw== Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 07:55:08 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.3.9.131030 x-originating-ip: [135.239.27.39] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-ID: <6988B92BF8AF1347BAC1FFFE6D2119B4@exchange.lucent.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 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amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -1.899 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.899 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, FREEMAIL_FROM=0.001, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, UNPARSEABLE_RELAY=0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 9VwuqBCQhDUl for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 00:13:48 -0800 (PST) Received: from relais-inet.francetelecom.com (relais-ias91.francetelecom.com [193.251.215.91]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B82E71AE0F5 for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 00:13:47 -0800 (PST) Received: from omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (unknown [xx.xx.xx.2]) by omfedm12.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id ADE6318C7E2; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:13:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from Exchangemail-eme1.itn.ftgroup (unknown [10.114.1.183]) by omfedm06.si.francetelecom.fr (ESMTP service) with ESMTP id 9418827C058; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:13:45 +0100 (CET) Received: from PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([fe80::a441:e6a9:6143:6f0f]) by PEXCVZYH02.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup ([::1]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:13:45 +0100 From: To: Mingui Zhang Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO4SIRsyqoYXqpzk6PHbocPpEtZZoqX9ZQgBARl0CAAQk0AIAAciqw Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 08:13:45 +0000 Message-ID: <11232_1385712825_52984CB9_11232_17684_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A9509@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> References: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E733660DBA@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <19124_1384271977_52825069_19124_7825_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A3C8F@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E7336623C5@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <28062_1384423942_5284A206_28062_2935_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A4BFE@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73367FF3A@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368C4ED@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <4552F0907735844E9204A62BBDD325E73368C4ED@nkgeml508-mbx.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: fr-FR, en-US Content-Language: fr-FR X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.197.38.3] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-PMX-Version: 6.0.3.2322014, Antispam-Engine: 2.7.2.2107409, Antispam-Data: 2013.11.29.44815 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 08:13:50 -0000 Hi Mingui, Please see inline. >From: Mingui Zhang [mailto:zhangmingui@huawei.com] >Sent: Friday, November= 29, 2013 3:16 AM > >Hi Bruno, > >So you suppose the label used in an RG cannot be used again out of the RG. No I'm not. My assumptions were indicated at the beginning of the email. I = assumed: "5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels". By "g= roup" I meant "redundant group" if that was the unclear point. =20 >That is not correct. >Please find my comments inline [Mingui]. > > >>[Bruno2] Let's assume: >>- 5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels (e.g., 1~1100= ). >>- 5 VPNs in connect to this group of PE, 2 of which being dual-homed (VPN1 >& >>VPN2). >> >>With label sharing: >>Label:1 2 3 4 5 >> >>PE1 VPN1 x x x x >>PE2 VPN1 VPN2 x x x >>PE3 x VPN2 x x x >>PE4 x x VPN3 x x >>PE5 x x x VPN4 VPN5 >> >>All labels marked as "x" are burned/lost because of the label sharing. > >[Mingui] Not true. Where we got this constraint? For an explicitly example, >PE4 can well use label 1,2,4,5. The 5 PE are in the same RG. > >[Mingui] I anticipate you assume PE1~PE5 are forming an RG, Correct. > so that once a >label is used it is used across the RG. I need to point out that the unit = of >"RG" is independent of PEs. It depends on the VPN connections. I saw Zhou >Peng has already given examples on this point. OK. I know the proposition is flexible: - You can increase the number of PE in the RG which, from a scaling standpo= int, reduce the number of Virtual Next-Hop which is good, but waste VPN/MPL= S label space, which is not good. - Or you can go the opposite way, with the opposite trade off. The point is that whatever option you pick, there is a scaling impact in th= e network. You document should discuss this. (rather than assuming the simp= le case: there are only 2 PE in the POP, and both support this solution) > > >>[Bruno2] not always. There is public/ietf example for this: >>draft-l3vpn-legacy-rtc-00 > >[Mingui] It's designed to be incrementally deployable in the network. The >trick is confined in the RG. Other P and PE routers are unaware of the >change. > >[Mingui] I guess you may change to imagine the scenario that operator need= a >legacy PE and a label sharing PE form an RG. Let's consider the analogy th= at >the operator interconnects two switches using LAG while one of them does n= ot >support LAG at all. :) Whatever the analogy, this does not change the fact that your solution requ= ires interoperability with the PE to be protected, not to mention a new lab= el allocation scheme that people are reluctant to use. Hence it will be dif= ficult to deploy in a multi-vendor network having legacy PEs. Bruno >[Mingui] Thanks for continuing the discussion. I think the discussion about >label ranges reservation in another thread is related to our discussion. To >my understanding, the conclusion is that it's not OK to require a label >block to be supported across multiple PEs. A possible escape is to resort = to >a higher-layer authorized entity out of the RG to assign the label. > >Thanks, >Mingui ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu= ce message par erreur, veuillez le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Les messages el= ectroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline toute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou = falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. 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from 172.18.7.190 (EHLO lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com) ([172.18.7.190]) by lhrrg01-dlp.huawei.com (MOS 4.3.7-GA FastPath queued) with ESMTP id BAV37305; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:03:49 +0000 (GMT) Received: from LHREML405-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) by lhreml204-edg.china.huawei.com (172.18.7.223) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:03:14 +0000 Received: from nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.38) by lhreml405-hub.china.huawei.com (10.201.5.242) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.158.1; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 09:03:46 +0000 Received: from NKGEML512-MBS.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.45]) by nkgeml407-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.38]) with mapi id 14.03.0158.001; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 17:03:39 +0800 From: Xuxiaohu To: "Henderickx, Wim (Wim)" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: =?gb2312?B?tPC4tDogtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0?= =?gb2312?B?OiAgtPC4tDogILTwuLQ6ICC08Li0OiAgtPC4tDogTmV3IFZlcnNpb24gTm90?= 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ZSBJRVRGIFNlY3JldGFyaWF0DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4g Pj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+ DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPiA+PiA+ PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4NCj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPiA+PiA+PiA+DQo+ ID4+ID4NCj4gPg0KDQo= From jewpon.zhou@huawei.com Thu Nov 28 18:23:03 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0558B1AE276 for ; Thu, 28 Nov 2013 18:23:03 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -3.602 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-3.602 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, J_CHICKENPOX_62=0.6, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, RP_MATCHES_RCVD=-0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 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+0800 From: "Zhoupeng (Jewpon)" To: "UTTARO, JAMES" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7KnhXvgCG5Rqe0SlRmw6eRpRHg== Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 02:22:41 +0000 Message-ID: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A5016D@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> References: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A4E7BD@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.111.80.97] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected X-Mailman-Approved-At: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 01:09:48 -0800 Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , 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(Jewpon)" , "bruno.decraene@orange.com" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7CvU5Pk1cB+qj0i4HhLsFMoz7Zo60b+QgAD9fYCAAEeZEA== Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:44:03 +0000 Message-ID: References: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A4E7BD@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A5016D@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A5016D@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [135.70.200.48] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-RSA-Inspected: yes X-RSA-Classifications: public, General SSNFP Patterns X-Spam: [F=0.2000000000; CM=0.500; S=0.200(2010122901)] X-MAIL-FROM: X-SOURCE-IP: [144.160.229.24] X-AnalysisOut: [v=2.0 cv=cZ5lWA/M c=1 sm=0 a=dhB6nF3YHL5t/Ixux6cINA==:17 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=P7JGrYgE33UA:10 a=ofMgfj31e3cA:10 a=7d4oZUkZpbcA:10 a=BLc] X-AnalysisOut: [eEmwcHowA:10 a=ZPSk82zQDygA:10 a=zQP7CpKOAAAA:8 a=XIqpo32R] X-AnalysisOut: [AAAA:8 a=6CO8hjaBWl0A:10 a=i0EeH86SAAAA:8 a=z9tbli-vAAAA:8] X-AnalysisOut: [ a=48vgC7mUAAAA:8 a=bfeHn8wiVpnPcxj_dZsA:9 a=UAVRJdkkkM0A:] X-AnalysisOut: [10 a=hPjdaMEvmhQA:10 a=oAXR_kdF8uMA:10 a=lZB815dzVvQA:10 a] X-AnalysisOut: [=Hz7IrDYlS0cA:10 a=4WaYbU159pCY_RQn:21 a=1eycUCo9tcruhBD-:] X-AnalysisOut: [21 a=33cLFCSJ9VCdvfy7:21] Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" X-BeenThere: l3vpn@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.15 Precedence: list List-Id: List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 11:44:44 -0000 So the draft speaks to as you say "most cases" and you have determined this= by?? Here is another example, there are customers that actually demand mul= ti-homing of attachment circuits to PEs in different POPs to avoid catastro= phic outages. There would be additional operational concerns revolving arou= nd capacity mgmt. of PEs. Although I have concerns about scaling, I am as = much if not more concerned about how this would add an order of complexity = to managing the network.=20 Jim Uttaro -----Original Message----- From: Zhoupeng (Jewpon) [mailto:jewpon.zhou@huawei.com]=20 Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 9:23 PM To: UTTARO, JAMES; bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" I don't exclude the case you said. I just said "in most cases". Because every PEs multi-homed to by a customer even have to allocate a labe= l for the customer without this draft, more PEs in a POP doesn't negate the= conclusion: " The labels amount needed will not significant increase due t= o the draft ". regards=1B$B!$=1B(B Zhou Peng -----Original Message----- From: UTTARO, JAMES [mailto:ju1738@att.com]=20 Sent: November 29, 2013 0:20 to: Zhoupeng (Jewpon); bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Hmm.. So my first thought here is that we are now basing the performance of= this technology on assumptions about how customers are homed to PEs, this = essentially becomes a gating factor. I can tell you that there are features= that customers utilize which spread attachment circuits for a given VPN am= ong more than two PEs in a POP. Utilizing load balancing and diversificatio= n designs attachment circuits for a given VPN to be spread across 6 PEs in = a given POP. Have you canvassed SPs about how spreading for a VPN is done o= r is the scenario described below a hope/wish? Instead of guessing it would= be better to get facts. -----Original Message----- From: L3VPN [mailto:l3vpn-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Zhoupeng (Jewpon) Sent: Thursday, November 28, 2013 6:20 AM To: bruno.decraene@orange.com Cc: l3vpn@ietf.org Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE prote= ction" Hi, Bruno, First, 5 PEs in a POP hardly happens in real world. In most cases, there ar= e two PEs in a POP which usually lie in different places for the sake of di= saster tolerant. Then, the RG can be design as below:=20 PE1 and PE2 in RG1 which server VPN1, VPN1 use label L1,say 100; PE2 and PE3 in RG2 which server VPN2, VPN2 use label L2,say 101; Label = 100 and 101 can be allocated from pre-allocated label block, say 100-4000. VPN3 to VPN5 is not dual-homed, so the label are allocated as usual, for ex= ample:=20 PE4 allocates label 100011 for VPN3, PE5 allocates label 100011 for VPN4, PE5 allocates label 100012 for VPN5, The labels used by PE5 for VPN4,VP= N5 are not related with labels on PE1 and PE2. Even if there is VPN6 which is dual-homed to PE3 and PE4, the label 100 can= be used for the VPN6 as long as it is not used by other VPN or other servi= ces on PE3 and PE4. PE3 and PE4 no need to perceive how PE1/PE2 allocate th= eir labels. So the shared label is only limited to the RG members. In extreme case, Suppose :=20 VPN1 is dual-homed to PE1 and PE2; VPN2 is dual-homed to PE2 and PE3; VPN3 is dual-homed to PE3 and PE4; VPN4 is dual-homed to PE4 and PE5; VPN5 is dual-homed to PE5 and PE1; We can design as below: PE1 and PE2 in RG1 for VPN1 and use label L1,say 100; PE2 and PE3 in RG2 for VPN2 and use label L2,say 101; PE3 and PE4 in RG3 for VPN3 and use label L1,say 100; PE4 and PE5 in RG4 for VPN4 and use label L2,say 101; PE5 and PE1 in RG5 for VPN5 and use label L3,say 102; So, PE1 need 2 la= bels: 100, 102 PE2 need 2 labels: 100, 101 PE3 need 2 labels: 100, 101 PE4 need 2 labels: 100, 101 PE5 need 2 labels: 101, 102 The label 100 on PE5 cannot be shared between PE1 and PE5,but it can still = be used for other RG, for example, RG6 between PE5 and PE3, if there is new= VPN dual-homed to PE5 and PE3. In a word, the shared label is not-so-globe and limited in the specified RG= members. The labels amount needed will not significant increase due to the= draft. regards=1B$B!$=1B(B Zhou Peng Date: Thu, 28 Nov 2013 09:38:01 +0000 From: To: Mingui Zhang Cc: "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: RE: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Message-ID: <32614_1385631482_52970EFA_32614_183_1_53C29892C857584299CBF5D05346208A070= A9136@PEXCVZYM11.corporate.adroot.infra.ftgroup> =09 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3D"us-ascii" Hi Mingui, Please find my comments inline [Bruno2] >From: Mingui Zhang [mailto:zhangmingui@huawei.com] >Sent: Monday,=20 >November 18, 2013 10:32 AM > >Hi Bruno, > >Please find my comments inline below [Mingui]. > [...] > >>[Bruno] First, consider that in a "POP" there may be multiple PE, i.e.=20 >>more >than >>the 2 required for the dual homing. Let's say 5 PE. >>The number of RG is flexible, but this also comes with drawbacks. >>One option is to have a single RG. In this case, you indeed need a=20 >>single >vNH but >>you require global label allocation for the perimeter of those 5 PE.=20 >>Which >roughly >>divide the available label space by 5. > >[Mingui] That is a misinterpretation. Actually, all 5 PEs share the=20 >same label range (e.g., 1~1100) rather than dividing the label space. >There is no scaling issue. [Bruno2] Let's assume: - 5 PE in the group, hence sharing the same range of labels (e.g., 1~1100). - 5 VPNs in connect to this group of PE, 2 of which being dual-homed (VPN1 = & VPN2). With label sharing: Label:1 2 3 4 5 PE1 VPN1 x x x x=09 PE2 VPN1 VPN2 x x x PE3 x VPN2 x x x=09 PE4 x x VPN3 x x PE5 x x x VPN4 VPN5 All labels marked as "x" are burned/lost because of the label sharing. Without label sharing: Label:1 2 3 4 5 PE1 VPN1 =09 PE2 VPN1 VPN2 =09 PE3 VPN2 VPN2 =09 PE4 VPN3 =20 PE5 VPN4 VPN5 =20 Here no label is lost. So, in that specific example, 7 labels*PE are used out of 25 while 18 are l= ost. Hence you need/use a label space which is 3.5 times bigger. (25/7) > >>Then if this represents a scaling issue, I guess you can call for=20 >>bigger labels, e.g. by stacking 2 labels. But this >requires >>more lookup work in the forwarding plane. > >[Mingui] As explained above, it does not need multiple lookup.=20 >Remember, we do not want to change the forwarding plane. [Bruno2] I was referring to a different draft: draft-renwei-l3vpn-big-label= -00 >>Roughly equivalent to the label >>context space that you did not want in the first time... >>Another option is to have one RG per couple of PE. In this case you=20 >>need 10 >vNH >>(IINM). That's roughly the number of PE but that's still *3 the number=20 >>of >states >>in the IGP so I think the document should talk about this. > >[Mingui] On one hand, the above extreme case happens only in theory.=20 >The reason we scope the document to talk about 2 PEs is that duel=20 >homing is the BCP. Think about the real deployment, I believe most POPs=20 >will use two PEs for the redundant connection. On the other hand, even=20 >if you have 5 PEs in one POP, just put them into one RG. Therefore, the=20 >increase of the number of states in the IGP is not so big. > >[Mingui] But I agree with your advice that we can spend some words to=20 >address this scaling issue in the document. [Bruno2] ok, thanks. > >>>[Mingui] All in all, if customers really want the resilience, those=20 >>>routes via the primary PE SHOULD NOT be installed in the FIBs of=20 >>>backup >PEs. >> >>[Bruno] Good point. So you probably should add this to the document. > >[Mingui] Sure. > >>>[Mingui] By the way, the scenario you designed may suffer from=20 >>>transient loop issue. Imagine that the more specific routes fails on=20 >>>the primary PE, the primary PE will resort to the backup PE. At that=20 >>>time, it's probably that the backup PE is unaware of the failure. It=20 >>>will send packet back to the primary PE. Oops, loop occurs. Following=20 >>>the above "SHOULD NOT be installed" requirement, such kind of loops=20 >>>can be >>avoided. >> >>[Bruno] You are right. I suspect that RFC 4364 implies that a PE=20 >>should not reflect back to the core, a VPN packet received from the=20 >>core. But I >haven't >>checked. > >[Mingui] OK. How about the local-repair and label-retention technique?=20 >With that technique, the primary PE may cache the route advertised by=20 >the backup PE and use it when the route it learns from the CE fails. I=20 >guess this issue is kind of off the track. We can talk more about it betwe= en us two. > >>[Bruno] Sure. But the solution relies on global VPN labels which is=20 >>not >what is >>deployed today. So it all depends on whether you will be able to=20 >>deploy >such >>change before. Which will requires all implementations to do it while=20 >>draft >minto >>has no such dependency. > >[Mingui] The solution does not rely on *global* VPN labels. They are=20 >still locally assigned in the scope of the RG. > >>> If customers want this feature, I promise you will see this feature=20 >>>supported by products in several months. >> >>[Bruno] Ok. But I guess you mean a subset of the products currently >deployed. >>There may be multiple vendors/implementations in a given network. And=20 >>some implementations are sometimes even considered as legacy (by the vend= or). > >[Mingui] For those legacy products, operators can update their software. [Bruno2] not always. There is public/ietf example for this: draft-l3vpn-leg= acy-rtc-00 Bruno > If >bare legacy PEs and label-sharing PEs are interconnected, ICCP=20 >connection will not be established. It allows PEs falls back to the=20 >non-redundant connection. For those label-sharing PEs from different=20 >vendors, if they implement the same RFC, they are supposed to be interoper= able. > >>>[Mingui] c. The delegation of protector is topology dependent. I guess >the >>>number of possible alternative paths held by the protector is a much=20 >>>smaller set of all possible alternative paths. >> >>#Bruno: Indeed, currently the location of the protector is topology >independent. >>Simply because this relies on the existing FRR mechanism used in the=20 >>core >and >>this FRR may have coverage limitations (e.g. LFA). There are plans to >remove >>this limitation. >>I'm not sure to understand your second point (second sentence). > >[Mingui] The central protector is delegated as the PLR, right? This=20 >further reduces the coverage of LFA. As we know, a free LFA can have=20 >any router as the PLR. > >Thanks, >Mingui ___________________________________________________________________________= ______________________________________________ Ce message et ses pieces jointes peuvent contenir des informations confiden= tielles ou privilegiees et ne doivent donc pas etre diffuses, exploites ou = copies sans autorisation. Si vous avez recu ce message par erreur, veuillez= le signaler a l'expediteur et le detruire ainsi que les pieces jointes. Le= s messages electroniques etant susceptibles d'alteration, Orange decline to= ute responsabilite si ce message a ete altere, deforme ou falsifie. Merci. This message and its attachments may contain confidential or privileged inf= ormation that may be protected by law; they should not be distributed, used= or copied without authorisation. If you have received this email in error, please notify the sender and dele= te this message and its attachments. As emails may be altered, Orange is not liable for messages that have been = modified, changed or falsified. Thank you. ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ L3VPN mailing list L3VPN@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/l3vpn ------------------------------ End of L3VPN Digest, Vol 113, Issue 32 ************************************** From wim.henderickx@alcatel-lucent.com Fri Nov 29 06:51:33 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 474FD1ADBCD for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 06:51:33 -0800 (PST) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -0.611 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.611 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, CHARSET_FARAWAY_HEADER=3.2, CN_BODY_35=0.339, MIME_8BIT_HEADER=0.3, MIME_CHARSET_FARAWAY=2.45, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_HI=-5] autolearn=ham Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) 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ID4+b2YgbWludXRlcyBmcm9tIHRoZSB0aW1lIG9mIHN1Ym1pc3Npb24NCj4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+dW50aWwgdGhlIGh0bWxpemVkIHZlcnNpb24gYW5kIGRpZmYg YXJlDQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PmF2YWlsYWJsZSBhdA0KPj4g Pj4gPj50b29scy5pZXRmLm9yZy4NCj4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ID4+ DQo+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiA+PiBUaGUgSUVURiBTZWNyZXRhcmlh dA0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4g Pj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4g Pj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4g Pg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPj4gPg0KPj4gPj4gPg0K Pj4gPg0KPg0KDQo= From jakob.heitz@ericsson.com Fri Nov 29 10:06:05 2013 Return-Path: X-Original-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: l3vpn@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7D9151ADFDF for ; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 10:06:05 -0800 (PST) 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"Zhoupeng (Jewpon)" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7S2oHO0tbAHw/0e09MOfKUwq5w== Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 18:05:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3D5F67B7-F96F-4B61-B6C1-4C12D8DB0B07@ericsson.com> References: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A4E7BD@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> , <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A5016D@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> In-Reply-To: <005B2911ABA9D54C950235844D19DB2052A5016D@nkgeml507-mbs.china.huawei.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: text/plain; charset="gb2312" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFrrCLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPgm779RlBBisOWln82DGH2eLVuteM Fs9nHWC1ODvf34HF42X/HEaPliNvWT2WLPnJ5NHy7CRbAEsUl01Kak5mWWqRvl0CV8aMJzEF 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EUSAAHC008.ericsson.se ([147.117.188.96]) with mapi id 14.02.0328.009; Fri, 29 Nov 2013 16:01:49 -0500 From: Jeff Tantsura To: Jakob Heitz , "Zhoupeng (Jewpon)" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Topic: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" Thread-Index: AQHO7S23R6TE5OayRUWATNNMWKCpkJo8f8kA Date: Fri, 29 Nov 2013 21:01:48 +0000 Message-ID: <60DEDD93F5E54B4AB55647B8B6C748399E30CD@eusaamb109.ericsson.se> In-Reply-To: <3D5F67B7-F96F-4B61-B6C1-4C12D8DB0B07@ericsson.com> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: user-agent: Microsoft-MacOutlook/14.2.5.121010 x-originating-ip: [147.117.188.135] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-2022-jp" Content-ID: <3947B4822AE62A4581B119E66896A2C3@ericsson.com> Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Brightmail-Tracker: H4sIAAAAAAAAA+NgFvrFLMWRmVeSWpSXmKPExsUyuXRPgu4ehplBBtt+aVr82DGH2eLVuteM 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into 4761 which took a similar approach. Cheers, Jeff -----Original Message----- From: Jakob Heitz Date: Friday, November 29, 2013 10:05 AM To: "Zhoupeng (Jewpon)" Cc: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" , "UTTARO, JAMES" , "l3vpn@ietf.org" Subject: Re: Why we consider the method of "label sharing for fast PE protection" >When you allocate a label range, you must allocate more than you need for >room to grow. This could cause you to use 2 to 10 times as many labels as >you would were you to allocate the labels individually. > >In addition, once a label range runs out, you have to find a new range >and possibly rearrange your existing ranges to make room. Once that >happens, you will cause a lot of network churn when you change thousands >of labels. > >-- >Jakob Heitz. > > >On Nov 29, 2013, at 1:09 AM, "Zhoupeng (Jewpon)" >wrote: > >> " The labels amount needed will not significant increase due to the >>draft ". >>=20 >> regards=1B$B!$=1B(B >> Zhou Peng >>=20