From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 2 08:25:34 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id IAA16351 for ; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 08:25:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19u5ym-0005gx-QX for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 02 Sep 2003 03:53:32 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h827rW0Y021871 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 2 Sep 2003 03:53:32 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19u18h-0001q5-9M for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 22:43:27 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id WAA29158 for ; Mon, 1 Sep 2003 22:43:19 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19u18b-000129-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 22:43:21 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19tsZ7-0004TS-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 13:34:09 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19tocU-00078r-1C for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:21:22 -0400 Date: Mon, 01 Sep 2003 09:21:22 -0400 Message-ID: <20030901132122.21711.52334.Mailman@www1.ietf.org> Subject: ietf.org mailing list memberships reminder From: mailman-owner@www1.ietf.org To: lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org X-No-Archive: yes X-Ack: no Sender: mailman-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: mailman-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: mailman@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk This is a reminder, sent out once a month, about your ietf.org mailing list memberships. 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Passwords for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org: List Password // URL ---- -------- lemonade@ietf.org ewunaw https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/options/lemonade/lemonade-web-archive%40ietf.org From exim@www1.ietf.org Thu Sep 4 20:48:30 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05843 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:48:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19v4lh-0007JQ-M5 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:48:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h850m5rX028102 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:48:05 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19v4lh-0007JB-Ga for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:48:05 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05824 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:47:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19v4lf-00027F-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:48:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19v4le-00027B-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:48:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19v4ld-0007In-5R; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:48:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19v4lE-0007IJ-Ig for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:47:36 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id UAA05802 for ; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 20:47:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19v4lC-00026b-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:47:34 -0400 Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([216.123.230.114]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19v4lB-00026W-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:47:33 -0400 Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h850lWtE027737 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:47:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h850lVZx001033; Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:47:31 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Date: Thu, 4 Sep 2003 18:47:31 -0600 (MDT) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: lemonade@ietf.org cc: imap@u.washington.edu Message-ID: <20030904184237.H1003@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Subject: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Folks, I'm preparing an update to the Channel draft. The two major changes are: 1) Split the core protocol specification off into its own document again, and 2) Change the Capability token from Channel=xxx,yyy to just Channel. In support of (2) I will be adding a new parameter to the Channel command that will allow clients to discover the list of supported schemes. Anyone with suggestions or updates for the draft should send them along within the next week or so (to me directly, and feel free to CC the lists as you see fit). --lyndon _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Sep 5 07:03:14 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14188 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:03:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vEMZ-0007KZ-05 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:02:47 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h85B2kIb028171 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:02:46 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vEMY-0007KD-6S for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:02:46 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14161 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:02:38 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vEMO-0001nc-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:02:36 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vELy-0001kg-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:02:10 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vELp-0007G4-JK; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:02:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vELC-0007Fa-H1 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:01:22 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id HAA14102 for ; Fri, 5 Sep 2003 07:01:09 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vEKy-0001iD-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:01:08 -0400 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vEKT-0001ga-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 07:00:37 -0400 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 18603; Fri, 05 Sep 2003 06:56:17 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Date: Fri, 5 Sep 2003 06:59:21 -0400 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F66F4@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: Important Dates for 58th IETF Thread-Index: AcNzmwY7CdPRl1JBTCivT6cMeUu1AQ== From: "Eric Burger" To: "IETF LEMONADE (E-mail)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [lemonade] Important Dates for 58th IETF Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable September 6, Thursday - Working Group and BOF scheduling begins =3D=3D=3D Consider this a call for discussion items Week of September 8 - Registration begins =3D=3D=3D Don't forget to register! October 20, Monday - Internet Draft Cut-off for initial document (-00) = submission at 09:00 ET =3D=3D=3D Get your drafts in by next week, and you will get an extra = week for a revision: October 27, Monday - Internet Draft final submission cut-off at 09:00 ET November 9-14 - 58th IETF Meeting in Minneapolis, MN, USA _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Sun Sep 7 02:38:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26546 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 02:38:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vtBY-00007T-IU for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:38:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h876c8b9000449 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 02:38:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vtBX-00006y-9Q for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:38:07 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26519 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 02:38:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vtBS-0003Cb-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:38:02 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vtBS-0003CX-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:38:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vtBQ-0008WE-DN; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:38:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19vtAv-0008NC-NU for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:37:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id CAA26481 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 02:37:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vtAr-000395-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:37:25 -0400 Received: from il-tlv-firewall-main.icomverse.com ([192.118.48.248] helo=il-tlv-smtpout2.icomverse.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19vtAq-00036p-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 02:37:24 -0400 Received: from il-tlv-mbdg1.comverse.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by il-tlv-smtpout2.icomverse.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h876aoo15246; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:36:50 +0300 X-Authentication-Warning: il-tlv-smtpout2.icomverse.com: iscan owned process doing -bs Received: by il-tlv-mbdg1.comverse.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:36:54 +0300 Message-ID: <7D4344E32B34D511A6500002A560C60207C8BA1F@IL-TLV-MAIL4> From: Erev Ari To: "'Lyndon Nerenberg'" , lemonade@ietf.org Cc: imap@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 09:36:53 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C3750A.0957795A" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3750A.0957795A Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lyndon, It would be nice IMHO if the protocol schemes supported would have an indication whether the protocol supported is a "push" or "pull" type. For example, when announcing support for FTP, the IMAP server may want to announce that the message can be retrieved (pull model) with FTP, or - another scenario - that the server is ready to send the message (push model) using ftp. Regards, Ari Erev > -----Original Message----- > From: Lyndon Nerenberg [mailto:lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca] > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:48 AM > To: lemonade@ietf.org > Cc: imap@u.washington.edu > Subject: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates > > > Folks, I'm preparing an update to the Channel draft. The two > major changes > are: > > 1) Split the core protocol specification off into its own > document again, > and > > 2) Change the Capability token from Channel=xxx,yyy to just Channel. > > In support of (2) I will be adding a new parameter to the > Channel command > that will allow clients to discover the list of supported schemes. > > Anyone with suggestions or updates for the draft should send > them along > within the next week or so (to me directly, and feel free to > CC the lists > as you see fit). > > --lyndon > > _______________________________________________ > lemonade mailing list > lemonade@ietf.org > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C3750A.0957795A Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates

Lyndon,

It would be nice IMHO if the protocol schemes = supported would have an indication whether the protocol supported is a = "push" or "pull" type.

For example, when announcing support for FTP, the = IMAP server may want to announce that the message can be retrieved = (pull model) with FTP, or - another scenario - that the server is ready = to send the message (push model) using ftp.

Regards,
Ari Erev

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lyndon Nerenberg [mailto:lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca]
> Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:48 AM
> To: lemonade@ietf.org
> Cc: imap@u.washington.edu
> Subject: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft = updates
>
>
> Folks, I'm preparing an update to the Channel = draft. The two
> major changes
> are:
>
> 1) Split the core protocol specification off = into its own
> document again,
>    and
>
> 2) Change the Capability token from = Channel=3Dxxx,yyy to just Channel.
>
> In support of (2) I will be adding a new = parameter to the
> Channel command
> that will allow clients to discover the list of = supported schemes.
>
> Anyone with suggestions or updates for the = draft should send
> them along
> within the next week or so (to me directly, and = feel free to
> CC the lists
> as you see fit).
>
> --lyndon
>
> = _______________________________________________
> lemonade mailing list
> lemonade@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C3750A.0957795A-- _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Sep 8 00:05:45 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA04462 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:05:45 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wDHD-0005rQ-Qi for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 00:05:21 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8845JER022527 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:05:19 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wDHD-0005rG-87 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 00:05:19 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id AAA04325 for ; Mon, 8 Sep 2003 00:05:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wDGf-0005Vq-08; Mon, 08 Sep 2003 00:04:45 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wB76-0001ft-DZ for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:46:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id VAA26322 for ; Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:46:37 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wB73-0006hn-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:46:41 -0400 Received: from goalie.snowshore.com ([216.57.133.4] helo=webshield.office.snowshore.com) by ietf-mx with smtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wB72-0006a1-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:46:41 -0400 Received: from zoe.office.snowshore.com(192.168.1.172) by webshield.office.snowshore.com via csmap id 18600; Sun, 07 Sep 2003 21:42:10 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft Exchange V6.0.6249.0 content-class: urn:content-classes:message MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates Date: Sun, 7 Sep 2003 21:46:11 -0400 Message-ID: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F6709@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Thread-Topic: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates Thread-Index: AcN1CprN2qu3dTgSQkqSE6h9PqOoyAAnbkpQ From: "Eric Burger" To: "Erev Ari" Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable How would ftp push work? -----Original Message----- From: Erev Ari [mailto:Ari.Erev@comverse.com] Sent: Sun, September 07, 2003 2:37 AM To: 'Lyndon Nerenberg'; lemonade@ietf.org Cc: imap@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates Lyndon,=20 It would be nice IMHO if the protocol schemes supported would have an = indication whether the protocol supported is a "push" or "pull" type. For example, when announcing support for FTP, the IMAP server may want = to announce that the message can be retrieved (pull model) with FTP, or = - another scenario - that the server is ready to send the message (push = model) using ftp. Regards,=20 Ari Erev=20 > -----Original Message-----=20 > From: Lyndon Nerenberg [mailto:lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca]=20 > Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 3:48 AM=20 > To: lemonade@ietf.org=20 > Cc: imap@u.washington.edu=20 > Subject: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates=20 >=20 >=20 > Folks, I'm preparing an update to the Channel draft. The two=20 > major changes=20 > are:=20 >=20 > 1) Split the core protocol specification off into its own=20 > document again,=20 > and=20 >=20 > 2) Change the Capability token from Channel=3Dxxx,yyy to just Channel. = >=20 > In support of (2) I will be adding a new parameter to the=20 > Channel command=20 > that will allow clients to discover the list of supported schemes.=20 >=20 > Anyone with suggestions or updates for the draft should send=20 > them along=20 > within the next week or so (to me directly, and feel free to=20 > CC the lists=20 > as you see fit).=20 >=20 > --lyndon=20 >=20 > _______________________________________________=20 > lemonade mailing list=20 > lemonade@ietf.org=20 > https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade=20 >=20 _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 9 19:42:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12747 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:42:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ws7Z-00051I-0L for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:42:05 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h89Ng4DW019292 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:42:04 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ws7Y-000515-P2 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:42:04 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12735 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:41:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ws7X-0005LA-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:42:03 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ws7W-0005L6-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:42:02 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ws7V-00050N-ON; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:42:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19ws77-0004zj-Sx for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:41:38 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12711 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ws75-0005Kf-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:41:35 -0400 Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([216.123.230.114]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19ws75-0005Ka-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:41:35 -0400 Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h89NfTtE056566 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:41:29 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h89NfSfW026836; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:41:28 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:41:28 -0600 (MDT) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: Eric Burger cc: Erev Ari , lemonade@ietf.org Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates In-Reply-To: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F6709@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Message-ID: <20030909173949.N15665@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <4A3384433CE2AB46A63468CB207E209D4F6709@zoe.office.snowshore.com> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > How would ftp push work? By giving a fully specified URL. E.g., 0 CHANNEL 1 ftp://example.com/filename. --lyndon _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Tue Sep 9 19:48:27 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12929 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:48:27 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wsDK-0005Dd-HP for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:48:02 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h89Nm2xQ020055 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:48:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wsDK-0005DO-BX for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:48:02 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12915 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:47:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wsDI-0005PK-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:48:00 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wsDI-0005PH-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:48:00 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wsDI-0005C2-R3; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:48:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wsCx-0005Bj-Ta for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:47:39 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id TAA12897 for ; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 19:47:32 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wsCw-0005Ot-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:47:38 -0400 Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([216.123.230.114]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wsCv-0005Oq-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Tue, 09 Sep 2003 19:47:37 -0400 Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h89NlatE056593 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h89NlafW026855; Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:47:36 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Date: Tue, 9 Sep 2003 17:47:36 -0600 (MDT) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: Erev Ari cc: lemonade@ietf.org, imap@u.washington.edu Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates In-Reply-To: <7D4344E32B34D511A6500002A560C60207C8BA1F@IL-TLV-MAIL4> Message-ID: <20030909174212.D15665@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <7D4344E32B34D511A6500002A560C60207C8BA1F@IL-TLV-MAIL4> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > It would be nice IMHO if the protocol schemes supported would have an > indication whether the protocol supported is a "push" or "pull" type. I'm not sure this is a good idea. It requires the IMAP server to have knowledge of the external service provider, which places an implementation burden on the IMAP server -- it forces a much tighter coupling between the two. Push vs. pull is really an attribute of the scheme itself. IMAP itself shouldn't be announcing these sorts of attributes, and in many cases it won't know what they are, anyway. If a client wants a push, it can just issue the command. If that fails, it can re-issue the request as a pull. Or pull and fall back to push. Or fall back to a different scheme. --lyndon _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Wed Sep 10 03:24:33 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA20825 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wzKi-0002Ci-MJ for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:08 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8A7O8NQ008471 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:08 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wzKg-0002CY-C6 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA20821 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wzKe-0001JB-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wzKd-0001J8-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wzKb-0002Bh-Iz; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:24:01 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19wzK5-0002Ak-9P for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:23:29 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id DAA20806 for ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:23:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wzK2-0001Ij-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:23:26 -0400 Received: from il-tlv-firewall-main.icomverse.com ([192.118.48.248] helo=il-tlv-smtpout1.icomverse.com) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19wzK2-0001Ig-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 03:23:26 -0400 Received: from il-tlv-mbdg1.comverse.com (localhost.localdomain [127.0.0.1]) by il-tlv-smtpout1.icomverse.com (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id h8A7NF714936; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:23:15 +0300 Received: by il-tlv-mbdg1.comverse.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:23:21 +0300 Message-ID: <7D4344E32B34D511A6500002A560C60207C8BA58@IL-TLV-MAIL4> From: Erev Ari To: "'Lyndon Nerenberg'" Cc: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:23:20 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----_=_NextPart_001_01C37767.7EC267F4" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , This message is in MIME format. Since your mail reader does not understand this format, some or all of this message may not be legible. ------_=_NextPart_001_01C37767.7EC267F4 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Lyndon, You answered Eric, that the "push" vs. "pull" differentiation can be underdstood from the client that provides the URL. >> How would ftp push work? >By giving a fully specified URL. E.g., > > 0 CHANNEL 1 ftp://example.com/filename. However, this means that when the server announces support for FTP (e.g. in: CHANNEL=imap,ftp), it needs to support each protocol both as a server as well as a client (as it does not know yet what URL the client will provide later, in the CHANNEL command). I can see cases where a server would choose to support (for example) ftp only as a server and not necessarily as a client. There is no provisioning to announce this capability right now. Also - see my comments below. Regards, Ari > -----Original Message----- > From: Lyndon Nerenberg [mailto:lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca] > Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 2:48 AM > To: Erev Ari > Cc: lemonade@ietf.org; imap@u.washington.edu > Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates > > > > It would be nice IMHO if the protocol schemes supported > would have an > > indication whether the protocol supported is a "push" or > "pull" type. > > I'm not sure this is a good idea. It requires the IMAP server to have > knowledge of the external service provider, which places an > implementation > burden on the IMAP server -- it forces a much tighter > coupling between the > two. Why? Doesn't the channel-announcement (provdied by the imap server) need to reflect exactly which protocol "the system" supports and whether they are push (ie. servers) or pull (i.e, clients)? (the system, being the collection of servers, and protocol clients in this installation/site implementing the support for the announced channel protocols). After all, "something" in the system whether it is the imap server itself, or other servers) will need to support the actual functionality. > > Push vs. pull is really an attribute of the scheme itself. IMAP itself > shouldn't be announcing these sorts of attributes, and in > many cases it > won't know what they are, anyway. Maybe the server does not "know" what they are, but the system of which the imap server is part of (together with the other protocol servers and/or client) is a finite one. So, the channel capabiliy announced by the imap server should reflect the actual servers/clients that the "system" can support. > > If a client wants a push, it can just issue the command. If > that fails, it > can re-issue the request as a pull. Or pull and fall back to > push. Or fall > back to a different scheme. > > --lyndon > ------_=_NextPart_001_01C37767.7EC267F4 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates

Lyndon,

You answered Eric, that the "push" vs. = "pull" differentiation can be underdstood from the client = that provides the URL.

>> How would ftp push work?

>By giving a fully specified URL. E.g.,
>
>  0 CHANNEL 1 ftp://example.com/filename.

However, this means that when the server announces = support for FTP (e.g. in: CHANNEL=3Dimap,ftp), it needs to support each = protocol both as a server as well as a client (as it does not know yet = what URL the client will provide later, in the CHANNEL = command).

I can see cases where a server would choose to = support (for example) ftp only as a server and not necessarily as a = client.

There is no provisioning to announce this capability = right now.

Also - see my comments below.

Regards,
Ari


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lyndon Nerenberg [mailto:lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 2:48 = AM
> To: Erev Ari
> Cc: lemonade@ietf.org; = imap@u.washington.edu
> Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft = updates
>
>
> > It would be nice IMHO if the protocol = schemes supported
> would have an
> > indication whether the protocol supported = is a "push" or
> "pull" type.
>
> I'm not sure this is a good idea. It requires = the IMAP server to have
> knowledge of the external service provider, = which places an
> implementation
> burden on the IMAP server -- it forces a much = tighter
> coupling between the
> two.

Why? Doesn't the channel-announcement (provdied by = the imap server) need to reflect exactly which protocol "the = system" supports and whether they are push (ie. servers) or pull = (i.e, clients)?

(the system, being the collection of servers, and = protocol clients in this installation/site implementing the support for = the announced channel protocols).

After all, "something" in the system = whether it is the imap server itself, or other servers) will need to = support the actual functionality.

>
> Push vs. pull is really an attribute of the = scheme itself. IMAP itself
> shouldn't be announcing these sorts of = attributes, and in
> many cases it
> won't know what they are, anyway.
Maybe the server does not "know" what they = are, but the system of which the imap server is part of (together with = the other protocol servers and/or client) is a finite one. So, the = channel capabiliy announced by the imap server should reflect the = actual servers/clients that the "system" can support.

>
> If a client wants a push, it can just issue the = command. If
> that fails, it
> can re-issue the request as a pull. Or pull and = fall back to
> push. Or fall
> back to a different scheme.
>
> --lyndon
>

------_=_NextPart_001_01C37767.7EC267F4-- _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Sep 12 16:24:36 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13928 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:36 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xuSh-0006CN-6I for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:14 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8CKOBam023821 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:11 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xuSh-0006C8-1U for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:11 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13868 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xuSf-0004vF-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:09 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xuSe-0004vB-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:08 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xuSY-00065V-KW; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:24:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xuSG-00064G-6Q for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:23:44 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id QAA13861 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:23:35 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xuSE-0004v4-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:23:42 -0400 Received: from orthanc.ab.ca ([216.123.230.114]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xuSD-0004uy-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 16:23:41 -0400 Received: from gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca [IPv6:3ffe:b00:4001:0:290:27ff:fe93:7e92]) by orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8CKNWtE092463 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA bits=256 verify=NO); Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Received: from localhost (localhost4 [127.0.0.1]) by gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca (8.12.9/8.12.9) with ESMTP id h8CKNWfW030850; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:23:32 -0600 (MDT) (envelope-from lyndon@orthanc.ab.ca) Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:23:32 -0600 (MDT) From: Lyndon Nerenberg To: Erev Ari cc: lemonade@ietf.org Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates In-Reply-To: <7D4344E32B34D511A6500002A560C60207C8BA58@IL-TLV-MAIL4> Message-ID: <20030912140146.P40751@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <7D4344E32B34D511A6500002A560C60207C8BA58@IL-TLV-MAIL4> Organization: The Frobozz Magic Homing Pigeon Company MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , > However, this means that when the server announces support for FTP (e.g. in: > CHANNEL=imap,ftp), it needs to support each protocol both as a server as > well as a client (as it does not know yet what URL the client will provide > later, in the CHANNEL command). No, and this is where I think we have a disconnect. Just because an IMAP server advertises ftp as a Channel scheme does NOT mean the IMAP server implements the ftp protocol itself. Imagine an interface whereby you could arbitrarily attach "scheme modules" to an IMAP servers channel mechanism. This would be through (say) an API where the IMAP server passes a message reference and the suggested URL (from the client) to an external via the API. The outside service would reply with the URL representing the actual message as expressed by the scheme (or a failure code). The IMAP server cannot know ahead of time if any specific URL passed to it by the client will be honoured (or honourable) by the external scheme server. The only way the IMAP server could correctly indicate the push/pull semantics of a particular scheme is if it was fully cognizant of the scheme. With an external API-based interface, you cannot guarantee this, therefore I'm very reluctant to require this functionality in the specification. --lyndon If we do not succeed, then we run the risk of failure. -- Vice President Dan Quayle _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Fri Sep 12 17:32:28 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17679 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:32:28 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xvWQ-00024Y-Nr for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:32:06 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8CLW6qe007960 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:32:06 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xvWQ-00024J-I3 for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:32:06 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17601 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:31:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xvWO-00064y-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:32:04 -0400 Received: from ietf.org ([132.151.1.19] helo=optimus.ietf.org) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xvWN-00064u-00 for lemonade-web-archive@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:32:03 -0400 Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xvWM-00023f-0P; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:32:02 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 19xvVV-00021t-5T for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:31:09 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA17560 for ; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:31:00 -0400 (EDT) From: hardie@qualcomm.com Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xvVS-00064P-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:31:06 -0400 Received: from ithilien.qualcomm.com ([129.46.51.59]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 19xvVS-00064I-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 17:31:06 -0400 Received: from magus.qualcomm.com (magus.qualcomm.com [129.46.61.148]) by ithilien.qualcomm.com (8.12.9/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id h8CLUxuI019417; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:30:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [129.46.227.161] (carbuncle.qualcomm.com [129.46.227.161]) by magus.qualcomm.com (8.12.9/8.12.5/1.0) with ESMTP id h8CLUvsh000843; Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:30:57 -0700 (PDT) Mime-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: hardie@mage.qualcomm.com Message-Id: In-Reply-To: <20030912140146.P40751@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> References: <7D4344E32B34D511A6500002A560C60207C8BA58@IL-TLV-MAIL4> <20030912140146.P40751@gandalf.orthanc.ab.ca> Date: Fri, 12 Sep 2003 14:30:58 -0700 To: Lyndon Nerenberg , Erev Ari Subject: RE: [lemonade] IMAP Channel draft updates Cc: lemonade@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed" Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Hi Lyndon, A question in line. At 2:23 PM -0600 09/12/2003, Lyndon Nerenberg wrote: > > However, this means that when the server announces support for >FTP (e.g. in: >> CHANNEL=imap,ftp), it needs to support each protocol both as a server as >> well as a client (as it does not know yet what URL the client will provide >> later, in the CHANNEL command). > >No, and this is where I think we have a disconnect. > >Just because an IMAP server advertises ftp as a Channel scheme does NOT >mean the IMAP server implements the ftp protocol itself. Imagine an >interface whereby you could arbitrarily attach "scheme modules" to an IMAP >servers channel mechanism. This would be through (say) an API where the >IMAP server passes a message reference and the suggested URL (from the >client) to an external via the API. The outside service would reply with >the URL representing the actual message as expressed by the scheme (or a >failure code). The IMAP server cannot know ahead of time if any specific >URL passed to it by the client will be honoured (or honourable) by the >external scheme server. I don't think I understand what "The outside service would reply with the URL representing the actual message as expressed by the scheme" means or would buy you. Let's say we have a channel support advertisement for imap,https. The IMAP server passes the reference https://secure.example.com/message-id=GIGO12345 to an external service. What does the outside service reply with? Does it reply immediately, or only after dereferencing the URI? >The only way the IMAP server could correctly indicate the push/pull >semantics of a particular scheme is if it was fully cognizant of the >scheme. With an external API-based interface, you cannot guarantee this, >therefore I'm very reluctant to require this functionality in the >specification. > I'm not sure I follow this logic either. If the IMAP server is advertising support, presumable we have some minimal level of protocol processing (it can read scheme names and pass them to the appropriate handler). It doesn't seem unreasonable for that protocol processing to include basic knowledge of the result code semantics on a per protocol basis, so that it can register success vs. failure. It might not need to understand the full protocol semantics, but knowing that the 2xx series in HTTPS is a success and the 4xx a failure does seem useful. There are, of course, other issues in that--hold the process while you wait for success or failure and you create conditions for a denial of service. But there may be some place in the trade off other than "no results expected". regards, Ted Hardie _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade From exim@www1.ietf.org Mon Sep 22 17:12:56 2003 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11164 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:12:56 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A1Xz0-0006xl-Q9 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:12:34 -0400 Received: (from exim@localhost) by www1.ietf.org (8.12.8/8.12.8/Submit) id h8MLCY8f026761 for lemonade-archive@odin.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:12:34 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A1Xz0-0006xY-Lj for lemonade-web-archive@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:12:34 -0400 Received: from optimus.ietf.org (ietf.org [132.151.1.19] (may be forged)) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11155 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:12:25 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost.localdomain ([127.0.0.1] helo=www1.ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A1XyS-0006st-DC; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:12:00 -0400 Received: from odin.ietf.org ([132.151.1.176] helo=ietf.org) by optimus.ietf.org with esmtp (Exim 4.20) id 1A1XyG-0006rh-O0 for lemonade@optimus.ietf.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:48 -0400 Received: from ietf-mx (ietf-mx.ietf.org [132.151.6.1]) by ietf.org (8.9.1a/8.9.1a) with ESMTP id RAA11100 for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ietf-mx ([132.151.6.1]) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A1XyE-0001kX-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:46 -0400 Received: from oe-im2pub.managedmail.com ([206.46.164.53] helo=oe-im2.bizmailsrvcs.net) by ietf-mx with esmtp (Exim 4.12) id 1A1XyE-0001ht-00 for lemonade@ietf.org; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 17:11:46 -0400 Received: from mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net ([206.46.164.29]) by oe-im2.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20030922211116.FPQH2818.oe-im2.bizmailsrvcs.net@mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net> for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:11:16 -0500 Received: from openwave.com ([64.93.16.234]) by mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net (InterMail vM.5.01.06.05 201-253-122-130-105-20030824) with ESMTP id <20030922211115.CRLV24233.mm-ismta4.bizmailsrvcs.net@openwave.com> for ; Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:11:15 -0500 Message-ID: <3F6F654F.5000608@openwave.com> Date: Mon, 22 Sep 2003 16:10:39 -0500 From: Ted Wugofski User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.5b) Gecko/20030901 Thunderbird/0.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: lemonade@ietf.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: [lemonade] MMS URI schemes I-D posted Sender: lemonade-admin@ietf.org Errors-To: lemonade-admin@ietf.org X-BeenThere: lemonade@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.0.12 Precedence: bulk List-Unsubscribe: , List-Id: Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service enivronments List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit I have recently posted an I-D pertaining to Multimedia Messaging Service (MMS) URI schemes. Please see: http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-wugofski-mms-uri-scheme-00.txt These URI schemes are being developed based on functionality defined in the 3GPP specifications as well as the requirements coming from members in the Open Mobile Alliance (OMA). I would like feedback on this from members of this list. From the abstract: This memo specifies URI (Universal Resource Identifier) schemes used in Multimedia Messaging, as specified by the 3GPP. The 'mmsto' URI scheme is used to designate the MMS address of an individual or service. In its simplest form, an 'mmsto' URI contains either an E.164 phone number or an Internet mail address. For greater functionality, because interaction with some resources may require message headers or message bodies to be specified as well as the MMS address, the 'mmsto' URI scheme may optionally include MMS header fields and the message body. The 'mms' URI scheme is used to designate an MMS message and the sending of that message from the message originator. -- Ted Wugofski CTO Office Openwave +1 817 658 6195 (m) +1 817 737 4533 (o) ted.wugofski@openwave.com _______________________________________________ lemonade mailing list lemonade@ietf.org https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade