From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Mar  1 08:52:25 2005
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From: Eric Burger <eburger@brooktrout.com>
To: "Stephane H. Maes" <stephane.maes@oracle.com>
Subject: RE: [lemonade] TENTATIVE Schedule
Date: Tue, 1 Mar 2005 08:40:30 -0500 
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<cynic>hahahahahahaha</cynic>

It is supposed to be jelled.  However, there is a small possibility the time
of the Thursday session may move around.  We asked for 2 hours, but only got
1 hour.  They may accommodate us, but at the expense of the timing.

Then again, there is a possibility that TPTB will move the session to Monday
morning to ensure I can't be there :)


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Stephane H. Maes [mailto:stephane.maes@oracle.com]
> Sent: Thursday, February 24, 2005 12:47 PM
> To: Eric Burger; lemonade@ietf.org
> Subject: RE: [lemonade] TENTATIVE Schedule
> 
> 
> Eric,
> 
> When can we assume that it is frozen? I believe that we were 
> told this would be stabler this time after last time screw ups?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Stephane
> 
> _____
> Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
> Director of Architecture - RTCC & Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
> Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax / Office UM: +1-650-607-6296.
> e-mail: stephane.maes@oracle.com
> IM: shmaes (AIM/Y!/skype) or stephane_maes@hotmail.com (MSN Messenger)
>  
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: lemonade-bounces@ietf.org 
> [mailto:lemonade-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Eric Burger
> Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2005 2:26 AM
> To: lemonade@ietf.org
> Subject: [lemonade] TENTATIVE Schedule
> 
> Wednesday 9 March
> 1300-1500 lemonade
> 
> Thursday 10 March
> 1645-1745 lemonade
> 
> _______________________________________________
> lemonade mailing list
> lemonade@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade
> 

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Mar  1 08:53:25 2005
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Rather than spamming the list with "Out of Office Autoreply", I'll just spam
the list with, "I'm out of touch."

I'm sure many of you think I'm out of touch normally, but, really, I
probably will not have e-mail access until the Monday of IETF.

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Sun Mar  6 15:57:44 2005
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mp3 streaming:

http://videolab.uoregon.edu/events/ietf/ietf62.html

jabber chat:

http://www.xmpp.org/ietf-chat.html

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Sun Mar  6 17:36:44 2005
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From: "Moustafa Youssef" <moustafa@cs.umd.edu>
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Subject: [lemonade] [Deadline Approaching] Final CFP: IEEE WirelessCom
	Symposium on Mobile Computing, 2005
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This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

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(Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP)

-------------------------------------------------------------
                    Final Call for Papers
              Symposium on Mobile Computing
  http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~younis/WC_MobCom05.htm
                       as part of=20
                IEEE WirelessCom 2005
Sheraton Maui Resort, Kaanapali Beach, Maui, Hawaii, USA
           http://sa1.sice.umkc.edu/wc05/=20
                   June 13-16, 2005
  Technical Sponsorship: IEEE TCCC, TCPC, and SSCTC


Recent years have witnessed an enormous growth in the development and
applications of mobile computing environments and devices. Many
practitioners envision a future empowered with context and location =
aware
computation and communication infrastructure that allow users to access =
data
and receive service at any place and any time. Compared to conventional
platforms, the mobility of computing nodes introduces many challenges to =
the
design of almost all systems components.=20

This symposium will foster a forum for discussing and presenting recent
research results on mobile computer systems. Original papers are invited =
in
the broader area of mobile computing. Papers must report high-quality =
and
previously unpublished work. Topics of interest include, but are not =
limited
to, the following:

=95	Architecture and infrastructure support=09
=95	Middleware and operating systems services
=95	Development platforms and environments
=95	Adaptive resource management schemes
=95	Pervasive and Context-aware Computing
=95	Performance metrics and studies
=95	Power aware computation and communication
=95	Data consistency and synchronization protocols
=95	Fault-tolerant architectural and operation models
=95	Wearable computing devices and systems
=95	Time constrained mobile systems
=95	Robust ad-hoc networking techniques
=95	Efficient localization techniques
=95	Wireless sensor networks
=95	Mobile peer to peer systems
=95	Quality of service provisioning
=95	Context-conscious computing
=95	Web caching and services
=95	Emerging applications and systems
=95	Mobile agents
=95	Mobile commerce
=95	Security and privacy issues


Submission Guidelines
---------------------
Original papers are solicited and must represent high-quality and =
previously
unpublished work, not currently under review by another conference or
journal. Prospective authors should submit their paper electronically
through https://msrcmt.research.microsoft.com/WirelessCom2005. All =
papers
are limited to 6 pages in standard IEEE double-column format.=20

Important Dates
---------------
Paper Submission Deadline: 	March 15, 2005
Notification of Acceptance: 	April 15, 2005
Camera-Ready Papers: 	May 1, 2005

Symposium Co-Chairs
-------------------
Mohamed Younis
Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of
Maryland Baltimore County, 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
Voice: (410) 455-3968,    FAX: (410) 455-3968
E-mail: younis@csee.umbc.edu=20

Hesham El-Rewini
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Southern Methodist University
3145 Dyer Street, Dallas, TX 75205
Voice: (214) 768-3278,	FAX: (214) 768-3085
E-mail: rewini@engr.smu.edu


Publicity Chair
----------------
Moustafa Youssef
Department of Computer Science
University of Maryland at College Park,
College Park, MD 20742
Voice: (301) 405-0341,    FAX: (301) 405-6707
E-mail: moustafa@cs.umd.edu

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Mar  7 12:10:29 2005
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Sorry, I've missed the deadline. The latest version is available at:
<http://ietf.webdav.org/users/amelnikov/draft-ietf-lemonade-reconnect-03.txt>

Alexey


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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Mar  7 17:33:37 2005
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On Mon, 7 Mar 2005, Alexey Melnikov wrote:

> Sorry, I've missed the deadline. The latest version is available at:
> <http://ietf.webdav.org/users/amelnikov/draft-ietf-lemonade-reconnect-03.txt>

I think there might be an active attack against this extension (at least 
when integrity protection is negotiated by the AUTHENTICATE command).

In this case, the SID has been passed from the client to server, but may 
have been modified in transit.  When the server authenticates the client, 
it doesn't verify that the correct SID was actually received once the 
integrity layer is active.

I think this can be fixed by having the server *always* send the SID back 
to the client after the authentication succeeds, as opposed to only when 
the SID is changing (note that we shouldn't use the NEWSID response for 
this).  If the SIDs don't match, the client knows that an attack is in 
progress.

I'm not really sure what the purpose of this attack would be, but there it 
is.

-Rob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Siemborski        |     PGP:0x5CE32FCC     |      rjs3@andrew.cmu.edu 
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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Mar  8 14:34:33 2005
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Lemonade Profile Comments

In general, this document is written more as a tutorial than a standards document. I'd like to suggest specific "lemonade servers must support" kind of language.  The value to the profile document is to have a marketing-ready tag to slap on a large chunk of interrelated new and pre-existing standards.  


This profile is also intended to support multi-media messaging and certain entrenched unified messaging concepts.  In particular, a system supporting the Lemonade profile must support a set of miscellaneous extensions necessary to make such an experience possible.

- Future Delivery.  The diverse client can't send the message upon it's appointed time if it is in bad coverage, or otherwise doing something else interesting.  Needs server-side support as provided in draft-ietf-lemonade-futuredelivery.

- Message context.  The clients need to present the proper icon's, message counts, and/or views based on the historical context of the message without downloading the entire message header for each message in a mailbox.  To do this, the LMTP deposit process is expected to set a new IMAP flag to indicate the message context.  The client has ready access to flags and can use them for local processing without downloading all the message headers.

- Security.  I understood an earlier agreement that the profile would have a minimum encryption and authentication scheme adequate to permit reasonable enterprises to allow a limited capability device to connect through a firewall, authenticate, and retrieve messages without use of a VPN client and the necessary overhead associated with establishing a VPN session.

- Compression. I understood a consensus around using StartTLS with possibly a null ciphers to achieve transport-level compression.  We had some discussions from Nortel about the relative values of such, but my recollection was general agreement that this would be a good and required thing for a server to support.  I don't think this is "future work" in the sense of a later document.

Greg V.

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Tue Mar  8 14:57:00 2005
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From: "Stephane H. Maes" <stephane.maes@oracle.com>
To: "Vaudreuil, Greg M (Greg)" <gregv@lucent.com>, lemonade@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lemonade] Lemonade Profile Comments
Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 11:53:33 -0800
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Greg

Thanks for the comments.

I have added in line marked <SM> ... </SM>

Stephane
_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - RTCC & Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax / Office UM: +1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane.maes@oracle.com
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 =


-----Original Message-----
From: lemonade-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal=
f Of Vaudreuil, Greg M (Greg)
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:32 AM
To: lemonade@ietf.org
Subject: [lemonade] Lemonade Profile Comments



Lemonade Profile Comments

In general, this document is written more as a tutorial than a standards do=
cument. I'd like to suggest specific "lemonade servers must support" kind o=
f language.  The value to the profile document is to have a marketing-ready=
 tag to slap on a large chunk of interrelated new and pre-existing standard=
s.  =


<SM> Will try for next version. </SM>

This profile is also intended to support multi-media messaging and certain =
entrenched unified messaging concepts.  In particular, a system supporting =
the Lemonade profile must support a set of miscellaneous extensions necessa=
ry to make such an experience possible.

- Future Delivery.  The diverse client can't send the message upon it's app=
ointed time if it is in bad coverage, or otherwise doing something else int=
eresting.  Needs server-side support as provided in draft-ietf-lemonade-fut=
uredelivery.

<SM> Hmm how does it access the server then if in bad coverage? Isn't it si=
mply client side storage? </SM>

- Message context.  The clients need to present the proper icon's, message =
counts, and/or views based on the historical context of the message without=
 downloading the entire message header for each message in a mailbox.  To d=
o this, the LMTP deposit process is expected to set a new IMAP flag to indi=
cate the message context.  The client has ready access to flags and can use=
 them for local processing without downloading all the message headers.

<SM> Can you elaborate. </SM>

- Security.  I understood an earlier agreement that the profile would have =
a minimum encryption and authentication scheme adequate to permit reasonabl=
e enterprises to allow a limited capability device to connect through a fir=
ewall, authenticate, and retrieve messages without use of a VPN client and =
the necessary overhead associated with establishing a VPN session.

<SM> =

As I understand this will be discussed for the next version more focused on=
 profile and when in charter. (See ppt for lemonade 61.5 interim meeting) =


I agree that it is critical.</SM>

- Compression. I understood a consensus around using StartTLS with possibly=
 a null ciphers to achieve transport-level compression.  We had some discus=
sions from Nortel about the relative values of such, but my recollection wa=
s general agreement that this would be a good and required thing for a serv=
er to support.  I don't think this is "future work" in the sense of a later=
 document.

<SM> This is not my recollection. It was shown that application compression=
 can sometimes be more efficient and sometimes buys little depending on the=
 type of e-mail... =


Also this is material for future work (again see 61.5 intermediate meeting =
ppt).

Also discussions of the point above (firewalls / intermediaries) may affect=
 this too.</SM>

Greg V.

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Folks,

Apologies for not posting an agenda yet...

Our view for the topics we should cover this week is as follows.  Let us
know if you have any comments.

Cheers,
Glenn.


LEMONADE WG  Agenda
===================

Wednesday  - 1pm
-----------------
1.  Status review
             Goals, S2S Notification, MMS, Future Delivery, Pull Trio 
2.  Security issues
3.  Media Conversion
4.  Deployment Challenges (L3/L7 Interaction)
5.  Profile (phase 1)

Thursday - 4:45pm
-------------
6.  Goals (phase 2)

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charset=3Dus-ascii">
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5.5.2658.2">
<TITLE>Agenda</TITLE>
</HEAD>
<BODY>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Folks,</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Apologies for not posting an agenda =
yet...</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Our view for the topics we should =
cover this week is as follows.&nbsp; Let us know if you have any =
comments.</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Cheers,</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Glenn.</FONT>
</P>
<BR>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">LEMONADE WG&nbsp; Agenda</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Wednesday&nbsp; - 1pm</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-----------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">1.&nbsp; Status review</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 =
FACE=3D"Arial">&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nb=
sp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Goals, S2S Notification, MMS, Future Delivery, Pull =
Trio </FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">2.&nbsp; Security issues</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">3.&nbsp; Media Conversion</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">4.&nbsp; Deployment Challenges (L3/L7 =
Interaction)</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">5.&nbsp; Profile (phase 1)</FONT>
</P>

<P><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">Thursday - 4:45pm</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">-------------</FONT>
<BR><FONT SIZE=3D2 FACE=3D"Arial">6.&nbsp; Goals (phase 2)</FONT>
</P>

</BODY>
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Glenn Parsons wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Apologies for not posting an agenda yet...
>
> Our view for the topics we should cover this week is as follows.  Let 
> us know if you have any comments.
>
> Cheers,
> Glenn.
>
>
> LEMONADE WG  Agenda
> ===================
>
> Wednesday  - 1pm
> -----------------
> 1.  Status review
>              Goals, S2S Notification, MMS, Future Delivery, Pull Trio
> 2.  Security issues
> 3.  Media Conversion
> 4.  Deployment Challenges (L3/L7 Interaction)
> 5.  Profile (phase 1)
>
Due to time differences with London, I would prefer to move Profile 
discussion earlier, if possible.

> Thursday - 4:45pm
> -------------
> 6.  Goals (phase 2)
>


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When love is not madness, it is not love. It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. Books are the shoes with which we tread the footsteps of great minds. The secret of success is to know something nobody else knows. The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same level of thinking we were at when we created them. It is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrate my perfect right. When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. Reality is an illusion that occurs due to lack of alcohol. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It's the transition that's troublesome. Most people would sooner die than think; in fact, they do so. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. A book may lie dormant for fifty years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of a library, only to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses that it contains, or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect the writer is not different from any other human being: whatever we say or do can have far-reaching consequences. Three o'clock is always too
 late or too early for anything you want to do. It's kind of fun to do the impossible. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad. A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Thank you for sending me a copy of your book - I'll waste no time reading it. You can't wait for inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. No matter what looms ahead, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjoy it and bless God for it. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop speech when words become superfluous. A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. Don't be so humble - you are not that great. While we are postponing, life speeds by. Everyone is a genius at least once a year; a real genius has his original ideas closer together. I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Give me chastity and continence, but not yet. Take away love and our earth is a tomb. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. All right, Brain, I don't like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his delusion is called a philosopher. Love does no
t begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up. A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on. When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but because you are. In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. Egotist: a person more interested in himself than in me. Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away. Luck is the residue of design. Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. But at my back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Drinking provides a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasure -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. The only time you run out of chances is when you stop taking them. Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go. Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact. From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. A narcissist is someone better looking than you are. I can write better than anybody who can w
rite faster, and I can write faster than anybody who can write better. Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not heart; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world. I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. Life is a waste of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have the time of your life. The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth without it. Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. Of cheerfulness, or a good temper - the 
more it is spent, the more of it remains. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Time is never wasted when you're wasted all the time. 

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<FONT face=3DArial>When love is not madness, it is not love. It has become=
 appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. The Es=
kimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there o=
ught to be as many for love. Books are the shoes with which we tread the f=
ootsteps of great minds. The secret of success is to know something nobody=
 else knows. The significant problems we face cannot be solved at the same=
 level of thinking we were at when we created them. It is better to have a=
 permanent income than to be fascinating. You can widen your life by yours=
elf, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a fri=
endship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many =
to properly take care of. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by f=
ighting back. I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later to demonstrat=
e my perfect right. When I am working on a problem I never think about bea=
uty. I only think about how to solve the problem. Reality is an illusion t=
hat occurs due to lack of alcohol. Life is pleasant. Death is peaceful. It=
's the transition that's troublesome. Most people would sooner die than th=
ink; in fact, they do so. A human being should be able to change a diaper,=
 plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a s=
onnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take=
 orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new=
 problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight effic=
iently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. A mathematician is a=
 device for turning coffee into theorems. A book may lie dormant for fifty=
 years or for two thousand years in a forgotten corner of a library, only =
to reveal, upon being opened, the marvels or the abysses that it contains,=
 or the line that seems to have been written for me alone. In this respect=
 the writer is not different from any other human being: whatever we say o=
r do can have far-reaching consequences. Three o'clock is always too late =
or too early for anything you want to do. It's kind of fun to do the impos=
sible. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. The only differ=
ence between me and a madman is that I'm not mad. A positive attitude will=
 not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it w=
orth the effort. A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor k=
nows the open sea. You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and =
an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuc=
lear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Thank you for sending=
 me a copy of your book - I'll waste no time reading it. You can't wait fo=
r inspiration. You have to go after it with a club. No matter what looms a=
head, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today=
 enjoy it and bless God for it. First they ignore you, then they laugh at =
you, then they fight you, then you win. In theory, there is no difference =
between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. Don't stay in bed=
, unless you can make money in bed. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by n=
ature to stop speech when words become superfluous. A positive attitude wi=
ll not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it=
 worth the effort. Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all w=
ithin yourself, in your way of thinking. Don't be so humble - you are not =
that great. While we are postponing, life speeds by. Everyone is a genius =
at least once a year; a real genius has his original ideas closer together=
 I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools.=
 Let's start with typewriters. Give me chastity and continence, but not ye=
t. Take away love and our earth is a tomb. When solving problems, dig at t=
he roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. All right, Brain, I don't =
like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back =
to killing you with beer. All are lunatics, but he who can analyze his del=
usion is called a philosopher. Love does not begin and end the way we seem=
 to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up. =
A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get i=
ts pants on. When I am working on a problem I never think about beauty. I =
only think about how to solve the problem. The problem with some people is=
 that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. Treat everyone with politenes=
s, even those who are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but because =
you are. In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be under=
stood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, =
it's the exact opposite. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their name=
s. Egotist: a person more interested in himself than in me. Perfection is =
achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing=
 left to take away. Luck is the residue of design. Love does not begin and=
 end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; lo=
ve is a growing up. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. Wh=
en you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. But at my =
back I always hear Time's winged chariot hurrying near. A woman drove me t=
o drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. Drinking provides=
 a beautiful excuse to pursue the one activity that truly gives me pleasur=
e -- hooking up with fat, hairy girls. The only time you run out of chance=
s is when you stop taking them. Some cause happiness wherever they go; oth=
ers, whenever they go. Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abst=
ains from giving wordy evidence of the fact. From the moment I picked your=
 book up until I laid it down I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I in=
tend reading it. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains f=
rom giving us wordy evidence of the fact. When I am working on a problem I=
 never think about beauty. I only think about how to solve the problem. A =
narcissist is someone better looking than you are. I can write better than=
 anybody who can write faster, and I can write faster than anybody who can=
 write better. Any man who is under 30, and is not a liberal, has not hear=
t; and any man who is over 30, and is not a conservative, has no brains. I=
t is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have=
 one's doubts. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an in=
vasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, bala=
nce accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, gi=
ve orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, p=
itch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die=
 gallantly. Specialization is for insects. Give me a woman who loves beer =
and I will conquer the world. I do not consider it an insult, but rather a=
 compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many =
ignorant men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means. You can widen=
 your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Sometimes our =
light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us =
owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. Life is a wast=
e of time, time is a waste of life, so get wasted all of the time and have=
 the time of your life. The game of life is not so much in holding a good =
hand as playing a poor hand well. C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the=
 foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg.=
 You can only find truth with logic if you have already found truth withou=
t it. Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and pres=
erves. Its eternal goal is life. You can widen your life by yourself, but =
to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship t=
urns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to proper=
ly take care of. Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in=
 eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and=
 melting like a snowflake. Of cheerfulness, or a good temper - the more it=
 is spent, the more of it remains. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water =
loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction=
 sap the vigor of the mind. Time is never wasted when you're wasted all th=
e time.=20</FONT>
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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar  9 12:28:02 2005
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On 3/8/05 at 3:07 PM -0500, Glenn Parsons wrote:

>1.  Status review
>              Goals, S2S Notification, MMS, Future Delivery, Pull Trio

Note that in the review of CATENATE, I'll want to discuss:

1 Process: Do we recycle WG last call given the recent core change to 
using APPEND?
2. Technical: Resolution of use/interpretation of absolute/relative URL issues

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar  9 12:31:36 2005
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Everything is on the Supplemental Web site, including agenda & some slides:

http://flyingfox.snowshore.com/i-d/lemonade/


There is mp3 streaming, but no video.

Note the Carver Room is on the SECOND Floor of the Hilton, next to the
Terminal Room.

See you / Jabber you / mp3 you at 1PM CT.

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From: Randall Gellens <randy@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [lemonade] catenate-04 submitted
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At 9:01 PM -0600 2/16/05, Pete Resnick wrote:

>  It does no data conversion (e.g. MIME transfer encodings)

Does this imply that for binary content, the client inserts a C-T-E 
header of binary, and assumes the Submit server can use the 
BINARYMINE extension or add an encoding if needed?
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
Some days you feel like Schrodinger's cat.   --M. S. Hutchenreuther

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Here are my comments.  See lines starting with ">>>".

                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


Lemonade
Internet Draft: Lemonade Profile                             S. H. Maes
Document: draft-ietf-lemonade-profile-01.txt                A. Melnikov
Expires: August 2005                                      February 2005


                              Lemonade Profile

Status of this Memo

    This document is an Internet-Draft and is subject to all provisions
    of Section 10 of RFC2026. By submitting this Internet-Draft, each
    author represents that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of
    which he or she is aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of
    which he or she become aware will be disclosed, in accordance with
    RFC 3668.

    Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering
    Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that
    other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
    Drafts.

    Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months
    and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any
    time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference
    material or to cite them other than as "work in progress."

    The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at
         http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt

    The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at
         http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html.

Abstract

    This document describes the Lemonade profile to allow clients to
    submit new email messages incorporating content which resides on
    locations external to the client ("forward without download").
>>>  ...describes a profile (a set of required extensions, restrictions,
>>>  and usage modes) of mail protocols such as IMAP and Submission.
>>>  This profile allows clients (especially those that are constrained
>>>  in memory, bandwidth, processing power, or other areas) to
>>>  effeciently use IMAP and Submission to access and submit mail.
>>>  This includes the ability to forward received mail without needing
>>>  to download and upload the mail, to have media attached to a
>>>  message converted if required, and to more efficiently maintain
>>>  a synchronized cache of received messages.

    The Lemonade profile relies upon extensions to other protocols;
>>>                                                ^^^^^ -> "various"
    specifically URLAUTH, CATENATE, Lemonade Command Extensions in the
    IMAP protocol [RFC 3501] and BURL in the SUBMIT protocol [RFC 2476].

    In addition, the Lemonade profile contains Lemonade Command
    extensions for quick reconnect and media conversion.
>>>  No, these must not be in a profile document, they must be in
>>>  their own documents and referenced here.

Conventions used in this document




Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 1]




=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


    In examples, "M:", "I:" and "S:" indicate lines sent by the client
    messaging user agent, IMAP e-mail server and submit server
    respectively.

    The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT",
    "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this
    document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119].


Table of Contents

    Status of this Memo...............................................1
    Abstract..........................................................1
    Conventions used in this document.................................1
    Table of Contents.................................................2
    1. Introduction...................................................2
    2. Forward without download.......................................3
       2.1. Motivations...............................................3
       2.2. Message Sending Overview..................................3
       2.3. Traditional Strategy......................................4
       2.4. Step by step description..................................4
       2.5. Additional Considerations.................................8
       2.6. The fcc problem...........................................8
    3. Media Conversion...............................................9
       3.1. Introduction..............................................9
       3.2. Static media conversion...................................9
       3.3. Conversion of streamed media..............................9
       3.4. Quick Reconnect scheme....................................9
    4. Future work...................................................10
    Security Considerations..........................................10
    References.......................................................10
    Version History..................................................12
    Acknowledgments..................................................12
    Authors Addresses................................................12
    Intellectual Property Statement..................................12
    Full Copyright Statement.........................................13


1.
    Introduction

    Lemonade provides enhancements to Internet email to support diverse
    service environments.

    This document describes the lemonade profile that includes:
       - The Lemonade Pull Model that describes exchanges between
         Lemonade Agents to allow clients to submit new email messages
         incorporating content which resides on locations external to
         the client and allow forward without download.
       - Media conversion


Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 2]



=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


       - Quick reconnect

    The organization of this document is as follows.  Section 2 describes
    the Lemonade Pull Model. Section 3 Section 3 describes the Media
    Conversion. Section 4 describes quick reconnect

2.
   Forward without download

2.1.
     Motivations

    The advent of client/server email using the [RFC3501] and [RFC2821]
    protocols has changed what formerly were local disk operations to
    become excessive and repetitive network data transmissions. This is
>>>        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <<delete>>
    an onerous burden for clients operating over low-bandwidth and/or
>>>  ^^^^^^^^^ <<delete>>
    high-latency links.

    The Lemonade Pull Model makes use of the [BURL] SUBMIT extension to
    enable access to external sources during the submission of a message.
    In combination with the IMAP [URLAUTH] extension, inclusion of
    message parts or even entire messages from the IMAP mail store is
    possible with a minimal trust relationship between the IMAP and
    SUBMIT servers.

    Pull has the distinct advantage of maintaining one submission
>>>^^^^ -> "This approach"
>>>              ^^^^^^^^ <<<delete 'distinct'>>>
    protocol, and thus avoids the risk of having multiple parallel and
    possible divergent mechanisms for submission.  Furthermore, by
    keeping the details of message submission in the SUBMIT server, the
    Lemonade Pull Model can work with other message retrieval protocols
    such as POP, NNTP, or whatever else may be designed in the future.

2.2.
     Message Sending Overview

    The act of sending an email message is best thought of as involving
    multiple steps: initiation of a new draft, draft editing, message
    assembly, and message submission.

    Initiation of a new draft and draft editing takes place on the MUA.
    Frequently, users choose to save more complex and/or time-consuming
>>>                                                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>>  (What is a "time-consuming message"?)
    messages on an [RFC3501] server (via the APPEND command with the
    \Draft flag) for later recall by the MUA and resumption of the
    editing process.

    Message assembly is the process of producing a complete message from
    the final revision of the draft and external sources.  At assembly
    time, external data is retrieved and inserted in the message.

    Message submission is the process of inserting the assembled message
    into the [RFC2821] infrastructure, typically using the [RFC2476]
    protocol.


Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 3]

=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005



2.3.
     Traditional Strategy

    Traditionally, messages are initiated, edited, and assembled entirely
    within an MUA, although drafts may be saved to an [RFC3501] server
    and later retrieved from the server.  The completed text is then
    transmitted to an MSA for delivery.

    There is often no clear boundary between the editing and assembly
    process.  If a message is forwarded, its content is often retrieved
    immediately and inserted into the message text.  Similarly, once
    external content is inserted or attached, the content is usually
    retrieved immediately and made part of the draft.

    As a consequence, each save of a draft and subsequent retrieve of the
    draft transmits that entire (possibly large) content, as does message
    submission.

    In the past, this was not much of a problem, because drafts, external
    data, and the message submission mechanism were typically located on
    the same system as the MUA.  The most common problem was running out
    of disk quota.
























2.4.
     Step by step description




Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 4]


=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


    The model distinguishes between a Messaging User Agent (MUA), an
    IMAPv4Rev1 Server ([RFC3501]) and a submit server ([RFC2476]), as
    illustrated in Figure 1.

         +--------------------+               +--------------+
         |                    | <------------ |              |
         |     MUA (M)        |               | IMAPv4 Rev1  |
         |                    |               |  Server      |
         |                    | ------------> | (Server I)   |
         +--------------------+               +--------------+
                ^  |                             ^     |
                |  |                             |     |
                |  |                             |     |
                |  |                             |     |
                |  |                             |     |
                |  |                             |     |
                |  |                             |     v
                |  |                          +--------------+
                |  |------------------------->|              |
                |                             |   Submit     |
                |-----------------------------|   Server     |
                                              |  (Server S)  |
                                              +--------------+
                      Figure 1: Lemonade Pull Model


    The Lemonade Pull Model allows a Messaging User Agent to compose and
    forward an e-mail combining fragments that are located in an IMAP
    server, without having to download these fragments to the server.

    In the [BURL]/[CATENATE] variant of the pull strategy, messages are
    initially composed and edited within an MUA.  The [CATENATE]
    extension to [RFC3501] is then used to upload the message to the IMAP
    server and assemble it, and finally a [URLAUTH] format URL is given
    to a [RFC2476] server with the [BURL] extension for submission.

    The flow involved to support such a use case consists of:
       M: {to I -- Optional} The client connectects to the IMAP server
      and IMAP Fetch of body structures and UIDs (See [RFC3501])

      Example:
            M: A0051 FETCH 161 (UID BODYSTRUCTURE)
            I: * 161 FETCH (UID 25627 BODYSTRUCTURE (("TEXT" "PLAIN"
      ("CHARSET" "US-ASCII") NIL
               NIL "7BIT" 1152 23)("TEXT" "PLAIN" ("CHARSET" "US-ASCII"
      "NAME"
               "cc.diff")
               "<960723163407.20117h@washington.example.net>" "Compiler
      diff"


Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 5]




=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


               "BASE64" 4554 73) "MIXED"))
            I: A0051 OK completed

       M: {to I} The client invokes CATENATE (See [CATENATE] for details
      of the semantics and steps =9A this allows the MUA to create messages
      on the IMAP using new data combined with body structure already
      present on the IMAP server.

      <<Editor=90s note: Draft editing/catenation is omitted for now>>

         M: A0052 CATENATE Sent FLAGS (\Seen $MDNSent) TEXT {738}
         I: + Ready for literal data
         M: Return-Path: <bar@example.org>
         M: Received: from [127.0.0.2]
         M:           by rufus.example.org via TCP (internal) with
      ESMTPA;
         M:           Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:57:07 +0000
         M: Message-ID: <419399E1.6000505@example.org>
         M: Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2004 16:57:05 +0000
         M: From: Bob Ar <bar@example.org>
         M: X-Accept-Language: en-us, en
         M: MIME-Version: 1.0
         M: To: foo@example.net
         M: Subject: About our holiday trip
         M: Content-Type: multipart/mixed;
         M:               boundary=3D"------------030308070208000400050907"
         M:
         M: --------------030308070208000400050907
         M: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed
         M: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
         M:
         M: Our travel agent has sent the updated schedule.
         M:
         M: Cheers,
         M: Bob
         M: --------------030308070208000400050907
         M:  URL "imap://imap.example.org/INBOX;UIDVALIDITY=3D385759045/;
            UID=3D25627;Section=3D1.2" TEXT {44}
         I: + Ready for literal data
         M: --------------030308070208000400050907--
         M:
         I: A0052 OK [APPENDUID 387899045 45] CATENATE Completed
         M: A0053 UID STORE XXX +FLAGS.SILENT ($Forwarded)
         I: A0053 OK STORE completed


      << Editor=90s note: Recommend UIDPLUS extension =9A especially useful
      when appending messages to a non-selected mailbox>>



Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 6]




=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


       M: {to I} The client uses GENURLAUTH command to request and
      URLAUTH URL (See [URLAUTH]).
       I: {to M} The IMAP server returns URLAUTH URL suitable for later
      retrieval with URLFETCH (See [URLAUTH] for details of the semantics
      and steps).

      M: A0054 GENURLAUTH
      "imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;url=
a
      uth=3Dsubmit+bar" INTERNAL
             I: * GENURLAUTH
      "imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;url=
a
      uth=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038"
             I: A0054 OK GENURLAUTH completed

       M: {to S} The client connects to the submission server and starts
      a new mail transaction. It uses BURL to let the submit server fetch
      the content of the message from the IMAP server (See [BURL] for
      details of the semantics and steps =9A this allows the MUA to
      authorize the submit server to access the message composed as a
      result of the CATENATE step).

      M: EHLO potter.example.org
         S: 250-owlry.example.com
         S: 250-8BITMIME
         S: 250-BURL imap
         S: 250-AUTH PLAIN
         S: 250-DSN
         S: 250 ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
         M: AUTH PLAIN aGFycnkAaGFycnkAYWNjaW8=3D
         S: 235 2.7.0 PLAIN authentication successful.
         M: MAIL FROM:<bob.ar@example.org>
         S: 250 2.5.0 Address Ok.
         M: RCPT TO:<ron@gryffindor.example.com>
         S: 250 2.1.5 ron@gryffindor.example.com OK.
         M: BURL
      imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urla=
u
      th=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038 LAST

       S: {to I} The submission server uses URLFETCH to fetch the message
      to be sent (See [URLAUTH] for details of the semantics and steps.
      The so-called "pawn-ticket" authorization mechanism uses a URI
      which contains its own authorization credentials.).
       I: {to S} Provides the message composed as a result of the
      CATENATE step).

      Submission server opens IMAP connection to the IMAP server:

             I: * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 URLAUTH] example.com IMAP
      server ready


Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 7]




=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


             S: a001 LOGIN submitserver secret
             I: a001 OK submitserver logged in
             S: a002 URLFETCH "
      imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urla=
u
      th=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038"
             I: * URLFETCH "
      imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urla=
u
      th=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038" {15065}
             ...message body follows...
             S: a002 OK URLFETCH completed

      << Editor=90s note: The submission server may LOGOUT>>

       S2: {to M} OK (2XX)

      Submission server returns OK to the MUA:
         S: 250 2.5.0 Ok.

    The messaging user agent, mail server and submit server MUST support
    IMAPv4 Rev1 [RFC3501], CATENATE [CATENATE] and URLAUTH [URLAUTH].

2.5.
     Additional Considerations

    The so-called "pawn-ticket" authorization mechanism uses a URI which
    contains its own authorization credentials using [URLAUTH].  The
    advantage of this mechanism is that the submit [RFC2476] server can
    not access any data on the [RFC3501] server without a "pawn-ticket"
    created by the client.  The "pawn-ticket" grants acces only to the
    specific data that the submit [RFC2476] server is authorized to
    access, can be revoked by the client, and can have a time-limited
    validity.

2.6.
     The fcc problem

    The "fcc problem" refers to a frequent need to deliver a copy of the
    message to a "file carbon copy" recipient.  By far, the most common
    case of fcc is a client leaving a copy of outgoing mail in a "sent
    messages" or "outbox" mailbox.

    In the traditional strategy, the MUA duplicates the effort spent in
    transmitting to the MSA by writing the message to the fcc destination
    in a separate step.  This may be a write to a local disk file or an
    APPEND to a mailbox on an IMAP server.  The latter is one of the
    "excessive and repetitive network data transmissions" which
    represents the "problem" aspect of the "fcc problem".

    The [CATENATE] extension to [RFC3501] addresses the fcc problem.  It
    requires making several simplifying assumptions:



Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 8]


=0C
                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


        (1a) there is one, and only one, fcc destination on a single
    server
        (2a) the server which holds the fcc is the same as the server
    which stages the outgoing message for submission
        (3a) it is desired that the fcc be a copy of the complete message
    text with all external data inserted in the message

    << Editor=90s note: [POSTADDRESS] can be used to address issues (1a)
    and (2a). To be done later>>

3.
   Media Conversion

3.1.
     Introduction

    <<Editor=90s note: To be done when agreed by WG>>

3.2.
     Static media conversion

    <<Editor=90s note: To be done when agreed by WG>>


3.3.
     Conversion of streamed media

    <<Editor=90s note: To be done when agreed by WG>>

3.4.
     Quick Reconnect scheme

    Mobile operators usually charge users for the time their mobile
    client gets connected to the Internet and/or for the amount of
    information sent/received. Thus a mobile client should minimize time
    it stays connected to its mail server, which suggests that it should
    disconnect and reconnect frequently.

    Also, it is possible that the mobile client unexpectedly leaves area
    of connectivity, which will require that the client reconnects when
    connectivity returns.

    << Editor=90s note: Discussion about voluntarily versa non-voluntarily
    disconnects might go here>>

    IMAP can be verbose. Usually, in order to synchronize a client with a
    server after a disconnect, the client needs to issue at least the
    following commands: LOGIN/AUTHENTICATE, SELECT and several FETCH
    commands (see [IMAP-DISC] for more details).

    Thus, there is a desire to have a quick reconnect facility in IMAP,
    which will give a mobile client ability to resume a previously
    abandoned session, without the need to perform the full
    synchronization sequence as described above.


=0CMaes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 9]











                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005




    << Editor=90s note: Example is as per reconnect-02, syntax is subject
    to change>>

       S: * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 STARTTLS AUTH=3DLOGIN CONDSTORE
          X-DRAFT-W02-RECONNECT] imap.example.com IMAP4rev1 2001.315rh
          at Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:47:49 -0400 (EDT)
       C: b0002 authenticate login (SID P1234567890 56789
    20010715194045000
       41,43:211,214:541)
       S: + VXNlciBOYW1lAA=3D=3D
       C: dGVzdDg=3D
       S: + UGFzc3dvcmQA
       C: dGVzdDg=3D
       S: * FOLDER INBOX
       S: * 464 EXISTS
       S: * 3 RECENT
       S: * OK [UIDVALIDITY 3857529045] UIDVALIDITY
       S: * OK [UIDNEXT 550] Predicted next UID
       S: * OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 20010715194045007]
       S: * 1 FETCH (UID 1 FLAGS (\Seen))
       S: b0002 OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 IDLE NAMESPACE MAILBOX-REFERRALS
    SCAN
       SORT THREAD=3DREFERENCES THREAD=3DORDEREDSUBJECT MULTIAPPEND] User
       test8 authenticated

4.
   Future work

    Future versions of the Lemonade profile are expected to address
    issues related to access of email form mobile devices, possibly
    including:
       - transport optimization for low or costly bandwidth and less
         reliable mobile networks
       - server to client notifications outside of the traditional IMAP
         band
       - dealing with firewall and intermediaries
       - compression
       - filtering

Security Considerations

    Security considerations on the Lemonade Pull Model are discussed
=0C   throughout section 2.

    << Editor=90s note: TBD (Reconnect, etc.)>>

References



Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 10]











                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005



    [IMAP-DISC] Melnikov, A.  "Synchronization Operations For
       Disconnected Imap4 Clients", IMAP-DISC, work in progress,  draft-
       melnikov-imap-disc-XX.txt

    [RFC2119] Brader, S.  "Keywords for use in RFCs to Indicate
       Requirement Levels", RFC 2119, March 1997.
       http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119

    [RFC2180] Gahrns, M.  "IMAP4 Multi-Accessed Mailbox Practice", RFC
       2180, July 1997.
       http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2180

    [RFC2234] Crocker, D. and Overell, P.  "Augmented BNF for Syntax
       Specifications", RFC 2234, Nov 1997.
       http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2234

    [RFC2683] Leiba, B. "IMAP4 Implementation Recommendations", RFC 2683
       Sep 1999.
       http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2683

    [RFC2821]  Klensin, J., "Simple Mail Transfer Protocol", RFC 2821,
       April 2001.

    [RFC2822] Resnick, P. "Internet Message Format", RFC 2822, April
       2001.  http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822

    [RFC3501] Crispin, M. "IMAP4, Internet Message Access Protocol
       Version 4 rev1", RFC 3501, March 2003.
       http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3501

    [RFC2476] Gellens, R. and Klensin, J., "Message Submission", RFC
       2476, December 1998.

    [CATENATE]Resnick, P., "Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP)
       CATENATE Extension", draft-ietf-lemonade-catenate-XX, (work in
=0C      progress).

    [BURL]    Newman, C., "Message Composition", draft-ietf-lemonade-
       burl-xx (work in progress).

    [URLAUTH] Crispin, M. and Newman, C., "Internet Message Access
       Protocol (IMAP) - URLAUTH Extension", draft-ietf-lemonade-urlauth-
       XX.txt, (work in progress).

    [POSTADDRESS] Melnikov, A., "IMAP4 POSTADDRESS extension", work in
       progress, draft-melnikov-imap-postaddress-XX.txt




Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 11]











                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


    [RECONNECT] Melnikov, A. and C. Wilson, " IMAP4 extension for quick
       reconnect ", work in progress, draft-ietf-lemonade-reconnect-
       XX.txt

Version History

    [1] We removed the sections of the profile related to mobile e-mail
       as well as discussion. This will be part of the next version of
       the Lemonade profile work.
    [2] We added detailed examples for the different steps included in
       section 2.4.
    [3] We added section 3 on media conversion
    [4] We added examples on Quick reconnect schemes in section 4.
    [5] We updated the security considerations
    [6] We fixed references based on updates above
    [7] We added a future work section
    [8] We fixed the boiler plate statements on the =D9status of this memo=
=96
       and =D9Copriright=96.

Acknowledgments

    This document is based on the work in progress described in draft-
    crispin-lemonade-pull-xx.txt.

Authors Addresses

    Stephane H. Maes
    Oracle Corporation
    500 Oracle Parkway
=0C   M/S 4op634
    Redwood Shores, CA 94065
    USA
    Phone: +1-650-607-6296
    Email: stephane.maes@oracle.com

    Alexey Melnikov
    Isode Limited
    5 Castle Business Village
    36 Station Road
    Hampton, Middlesex
    TW12 2BX
    UK
    Email: Alexey.melnikov@isode.com

Intellectual Property Statement

    The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any
    intellectual property or other rights that might be claimed to
    pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in


Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 12]











                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


    this document or the extent to which any license under such rights
    might or might not be available; neither does it represent that it
    has made any effort to identify any such rights.  Information on the
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    The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any
    copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary
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    this standard.  Please address the information to the IETF Executive
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Acknowledgement

    Funding for the RFC Editor function is currently provided by the
    Internet Society.

=0C
=46ull Copyright Statement

    Copyright (C) The Internet Society 2004. This document is subject to
    the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and except
    as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights.

    This document and the information contained herein are provided on an
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    ENGINEERING TASK FORCE DISCLAIM ALL WARRANTIES, EXPRESS OR IMPLIED,
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    This document and translations of it may be copied and furnished to
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    copyrights defined in the Internet Standards process must be



Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 13]











                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005


    followed, or as required to translate it into languages other than
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    The limited permissions granted above are perpetual and will not be
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=0C

Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 14]












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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar  9 13:55:38 2005
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From: "Vaudreuil, Greg M (Greg)" <gregv@lucent.com>
To: "Stephane H. Maes" <stephane.maes@oracle.com>, lemonade@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lemonade] Lemonade Profile Comments
Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 12:52:19 -0600 
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GV1:- Future Delivery.  The diverse client can't send the message upon it's appointed time if it is in bad coverage, or otherwise doing something else interesting.  Needs server-side support as provided in draft-ietf-lemonade-futuredelivery.

<SM> Hmm how does it access the server then if in bad coverage? Isn't it simply client side storage? </SM>

GV2: Presumably, when the message is submitted, the mobile client has connectivity. If not, the message is not submitted and is presumably stored locally.  The role of the future-delivery enabled submission server is to make sure the message is actually injected into the mail system at the appointed time, even if the client is on an airplane, out-of-battery, on a cruise vacation, or otherwise without digital coverage at that time.

GV:1 - Message context.  The clients need to present the proper icon's, message counts, and/or views based on the historical context of the message without downloading the entire message header for each message in a mailbox.  To do this, the LMTP deposit process is expected to set a new IMAP flag to indicate the message context.  The client has ready access to flags and can use them for local processing without downloading all the message headers.

<SM> Can you elaborate. </SM>

GV2: Current user interfaces for unified messaging systems use colors, icons, or other means to visually distinguish between voicemail, fax, MMS, and email messages in a lengthy mailbox listing.  Each of these messages context's can/should be indicated by a message-context RFC2822 header.  Unfortunately for a limited-connectivity device, IMAP does not provide an easy way to get that header information without retrieving the full headers of all messages.  By copying that information into an IMAP flag at deposit time, the information is available by a much cheaper mechanism.  (recall I had an Internet draft on this topic, draft-ietf-lemonade-msg-context-00.txt, and the consensus was that it was unnecessary and could be adequately covered in the profile since no new protocol was defined)

I now understand the other two items I mentioned are for a later phase.

Greg V.

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Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 11:30:11 -0800
To: "Marek Pola" <marek.pola@home.se>, lemonade@ietf.org
From: Randall Gellens <randy@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [lemonade] Push IMAP questions
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At 11:56 AM +0100 1/4/05, Marek Pola wrote:

>  I wish to start implementing the Push IMAP protocol that is 
> currently in Draft state.

By the way, the document I believe you are referring to is an 
Internet Draft, which is not the same as a Draft Standard.  Internet 
Drafts are temporary documents which expire in six months.  Draft 
Standards have bene through multiple approvals and hurdles.

Are you interested specifically in implementing only the P-IMAP 
document, or also the outcome of the lemonade working group?
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
The best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas.
                                           --Linus Pauling

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From: "Stephane H. Maes" <stephane.maes@oracle.com>
To: Randall Gellens <randy@qualcomm.com>, Marek Pola <marek.pola@home.se>,
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Randy,

I think this is a timing issue...

Lemonade is not in any shape ready to resolve the issues of mobile e-mail t=
oday...

Stephane

_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - RTCC & Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax / Office UM: +1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane.maes@oracle.com
IM: shmaes (AIM/Y!/skype) or stephane_maes@hotmail.com (MSN Messenger)
 =


-----Original Message-----
From: lemonade-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-bounces@ietf.org] On Behal=
f Of Randall Gellens
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 11:30 AM
To: Marek Pola; lemonade@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [lemonade] Push IMAP questions

At 11:56 AM +0100 1/4/05, Marek Pola wrote:

>  I wish to start implementing the Push IMAP protocol that is =

> currently in Draft state.

By the way, the document I believe you are referring to is an =

Internet Draft, which is not the same as a Draft Standard.  Internet =

Drafts are temporary documents which expire in six months.  Draft =

Standards have bene through multiple approvals and hurdles.

Are you interested specifically in implementing only the P-IMAP =

document, or also the outcome of the lemonade working group?
-- =

Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
The best way to have a good idea is to have lots of ideas.
                                           --Linus Pauling

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar  9 15:12:15 2005
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Hi Stephane,

At 11:49 AM -0800 3/9/05, Stephane H. Maes wrote:

>  I think this is a timing issue...
>
>  Lemonade is not in any shape ready to resolve the issues of mobile 
> e-mail today...

Does this mean that organizations are planning on deploying p-imap 
immediately?  If so, what happens when lemonade publishes its 
documents?  Do we then have an incompatible deployed base that can't 
use the IETF published standards?

lemonade seems to be making good progress.  I think it would be a 
shame if we end up with multiple incompatible solutions.
-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
The "press conference" is a politician's way of being informative
without saying anything. Should he accidentally say something, he
has at his side a "press officer" who immediately explains it away
by "clarifying" it.
      -- Emery Kellen

_______________________________________________
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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar  9 15:33:32 2005
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Randy,

Good point and I am very keen on making sure that anything happening now ha=
s a well thought path towards Lemonade and solely an "intermediate" role.

Let's discuss on how this can be achieved.

Stephane

_____
Stephane H. Maes, PhD,
Director of Architecture - RTCC & Mobile, Oracle Corporation.
Ph: +1-203-300-7786 (mobile/SMS); Fax / Office UM: +1-650-607-6296.
e-mail: stephane.maes@oracle.com
IM: shmaes (AIM/Y!/skype) or stephane_maes@hotmail.com (MSN Messenger)
 =


-----Original Message-----
From: Randall Gellens [mailto:randy@qualcomm.com] =

Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 12:11 PM
To: Stephane H. Maes; Randall Gellens; Marek Pola; lemonade@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lemonade] Push IMAP questions

Hi Stephane,

At 11:49 AM -0800 3/9/05, Stephane H. Maes wrote:

>  I think this is a timing issue...
>
>  Lemonade is not in any shape ready to resolve the issues of mobile =

> e-mail today...

Does this mean that organizations are planning on deploying p-imap =

immediately?  If so, what happens when lemonade publishes its =

documents?  Do we then have an incompatible deployed base that can't =

use the IETF published standards?

lemonade seems to be making good progress.  I think it would be a =

shame if we end up with multiple incompatible solutions.
-- =

Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
The "press conference" is a politician's way of being informative
without saying anything. Should he accidentally say something, he
has at his side a "press officer" who immediately explains it away
by "clarifying" it.
      -- Emery Kellen



_______________________________________________
lemonade mailing list
lemonade@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade


From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar  9 15:34:31 2005
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Randall Gellens wrote:

> At 9:01 PM -0600 2/16/05, Pete Resnick wrote:
>
>>  It does no data conversion (e.g. MIME transfer encodings)
>
> Does this imply that for binary content, the client inserts a C-T-E 
> header of binary, and assumes the Submit server can use the BINARYMINE 
> extension or add an encoding if needed?

Correct. So when the client CATENATEs, it needs to know if the 
submission server supports BINARYMIME. Or the client can always play 
safe and just encode it.

Hmm, there is no way to change encoding during CATENATE (?).

Alexey


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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar  9 15:48:04 2005
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From: Randall Gellens <randy@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [lemonade] catenate-04 submitted
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At 8:32 PM +0000 3/9/05, Alexey Melnikov wrote:

>  Randall Gellens wrote:
>
>>  At 9:01 PM -0600 2/16/05, Pete Resnick wrote:
>>
>>>   It does no data conversion (e.g. MIME transfer encodings)
>>
>>  Does this imply that for binary content, the client inserts a 
>> C-T-E header of binary, and assumes the Submit server can use the 
>> BINARYMINE extension or add an encoding if needed?
>
>  Correct. So when the client CATENATEs, it needs to know if the 
> submission server supports BINARYMIME.

We may need to require BINARYMIME as part of lemonade.

>   Or the client can always play safe and just encode it.

How can the client do this without downloading the data, encoding it, 
then uploading it?

>
>  Hmm, there is no way to change encoding during CATENATE (?).
>
>  Alexey


-- 
Randall Gellens
Opinions are personal;    facts are suspect;    I speak for myself only
-------------- Randomly-selected tag: ---------------
> This is not to say that programming in, say, C++ takes a
> super human effort.  What I mean is that it makes sense to
> develop tools that lessen the effort and increase the chance
> for success.  C was a step in that direction....

First there was ALGOL... this was a big step in the right
direction, then CPL which was supposed to be practical ALGOL,
was a slight step backwards.  BCPL which was Basic CPL was
another step backwards.  Then came B, a big step backwards (it
took the Basic and dropped the CPL), and C was a small step
forwards over this.  I think in all this C had by the time it
came around lost the plot.

The plot that it really found, which was more by accident than
intention was cross platform development, but that would have
been in ALGOL anyway.  C did not prove that OSs could be
written in HLLs: that belonged already to ALGOL on the B5000
(~1964), and this OS survives today as still much better,
fully featured and robust than Unix or any other OS for that
matter.

As C.A.R Hoare said, Algol was a great improvement on most of
its successors.

  --from Usenet post by Ian Joyner,
    <http://www.mri.mq.edu.au/people/ian.html>

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http://rafferty.volosko.com/575r.html



http://cryptanalytic.volosko.com/nothanks.php




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<CENTER><A HREF="http://via.volosko.com/575r.html"><img src="http://taft.volosko.com/pics/105.jpg"></A></CENTER>
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<BR><BR><BR><BR>

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Subject: [lemonade] Re: Lemonade Profile Comments
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I'm resending this to make it easier to read.

Here are my comments.  See lines starting with "]]]".

                           <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
Lemonade                                                                
Internet Draft: Lemonade Profile                             S. H. Maes 
Document: draft-ietf-lemonade-profile-01.txt                A. Melnikov 
Expires: August 2005                                      February 2005 
    
    
                             Lemonade Profile 
    
Status of this Memo 
 
   This document is an Internet-Draft and is subject to all provisions 
   of Section 10 of RFC2026. By submitting this Internet-Draft, each 
   author represents that any applicable patent or other IPR claims of 
   which he or she is aware have been or will be disclosed, and any of 
   which he or she become aware will be disclosed, in accordance with 
   RFC 3668. 
    
   Internet-Drafts are working documents of the Internet Engineering 
   Task Force (IETF), its areas, and its working groups.  Note that 
   other groups may also distribute working documents as Internet-
   Drafts. 
    
   Internet-Drafts are draft documents valid for a maximum of six months 
   and may be updated, replaced, or obsoleted by other documents at any 
   time.  It is inappropriate to use Internet-Drafts as reference 
   material or to cite them other than as "work in progress." 
    
   The list of current Internet-Drafts can be accessed at 
        http://www.ietf.org/ietf/1id-abstracts.txt 
    
   The list of Internet-Draft Shadow Directories can be accessed at 
        http://www.ietf.org/shadow.html. 
    
Abstract 
    
   This document describes the Lemonade profile to allow clients to 
   submit new email messages incorporating content which resides on 
   locations external to the client ("forward without download").  
]]] ...describes a profile (a set of required extensions, restrictions,
]]] and usage modes) of mail protocols such as IMAP and Submission.
]]] This profile allows clients (especially those that are constrained
]]] in memory, bandwidth, processing power, or other areas) to
]]] effeciently use IMAP and Submission to access and submit mail.
]]] This includes the ability to forward received mail without needing
]]] to download and upload the mail, to have media attached to a
]]] message converted if required, and to more efficiently maintain
]]] a synchronized cache of received messages.
    
   The Lemonade profile relies upon extensions to other protocols; 
]]]                                               ^^^^^ -> "various"
   specifically URLAUTH, CATENATE, Lemonade Command Extensions in the 
   IMAP protocol [RFC 3501] and BURL in the SUBMIT protocol [RFC 2476]. 
 
   In addition, the Lemonade profile contains Lemonade Command 
   extensions for quick reconnect and media conversion. 
]]] No, these must not be in a profile document, they must be in
]]] their own documents and referenced here.
 
Conventions used in this document 
    

 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 1] 




=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
   In examples, "M:", "I:" and "S:" indicate lines sent by the client 
   messaging user agent, IMAP e-mail server and submit server 
   respectively. 
    
   The key words "MUST", "MUST NOT", "REQUIRED", "SHALL", "SHALL NOT", 
   "SHOULD", "SHOULD NOT", "RECOMMENDED", "MAY", and "OPTIONAL" in this 
   document are to be interpreted as described in [RFC2119]. 
 
 
Table of Contents 
          
   Status of this Memo...............................................1 
   Abstract..........................................................1 
   Conventions used in this document.................................1 
   Table of Contents.................................................2 
   1. Introduction...................................................2 
   2. Forward without download.......................................3 
      2.1. Motivations...............................................3 
      2.2. Message Sending Overview..................................3 
      2.3. Traditional Strategy......................................4 
      2.4. Step by step description..................................4 
      2.5. Additional Considerations.................................8 
      2.6. The fcc problem...........................................8 
   3. Media Conversion...............................................9 
      3.1. Introduction..............................................9 
      3.2. Static media conversion...................................9 
      3.3. Conversion of streamed media..............................9 
      3.4. Quick Reconnect scheme....................................9 
   4. Future work...................................................10 
   Security Considerations..........................................10 
   References.......................................................10 
   Version History..................................................12 
   Acknowledgments..................................................12 
   Authors Addresses................................................12 
   Intellectual Property Statement..................................12 
   Full Copyright Statement.........................................13 
    
    
1. 
   Introduction 
    
   Lemonade provides enhancements to Internet email to support diverse 
   service environments.  
    
   This document describes the lemonade profile that includes: 
      - The Lemonade Pull Model that describes exchanges between 
        Lemonade Agents to allow clients to submit new email messages 
        incorporating content which resides on locations external to 
        the client and allow forward without download. 
      - Media conversion 
 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 2] 



=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
      - Quick reconnect   
    
   The organization of this document is as follows.  Section 2 describes 
   the Lemonade Pull Model. Section 3 Section 3 describes the Media 
   Conversion. Section 4 describes quick reconnect  
    
2. 
  Forward without download 
    
2.1. 
    Motivations 
    
   The advent of client/server email using the [RFC3501] and [RFC2821] 
   protocols has changed what formerly were local disk operations to 
   become excessive and repetitive network data transmissions. This is 
]]]       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ <<delete>>
   an onerous burden for clients operating over low-bandwidth and/or 
]]] ^^^^^^^^^ <<delete>>
   high-latency links. 
    
   The Lemonade Pull Model makes use of the [BURL] SUBMIT extension to 
   enable access to external sources during the submission of a message.  
   In combination with the IMAP [URLAUTH] extension, inclusion of 
   message parts or even entire messages from the IMAP mail store is 
   possible with a minimal trust relationship between the IMAP and 
   SUBMIT servers. 
    
   Pull has the distinct advantage of maintaining one submission 
]]]^^^^ -> "This approach"
]]]             ^^^^^^^^ <<<delete 'distinct'>>>
   protocol, and thus avoids the risk of having multiple parallel and 
   possible divergent mechanisms for submission.  Furthermore, by 
   keeping the details of message submission in the SUBMIT server, the 
   Lemonade Pull Model can work with other message retrieval protocols 
   such as POP, NNTP, or whatever else may be designed in the future. 
    
2.2. 
    Message Sending Overview 
    
   The act of sending an email message is best thought of as involving 
   multiple steps: initiation of a new draft, draft editing, message 
   assembly, and message submission. 
    
   Initiation of a new draft and draft editing takes place on the MUA. 
   Frequently, users choose to save more complex and/or time-consuming 
]]]                                                     ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
]]] (What is a "time-consuming message"?)
   messages on an [RFC3501] server (via the APPEND command with the 
   \Draft flag) for later recall by the MUA and resumption of the 
   editing process. 
    
   Message assembly is the process of producing a complete message from 
   the final revision of the draft and external sources.  At assembly 
   time, external data is retrieved and inserted in the message. 
    
   Message submission is the process of inserting the assembled message 
   into the [RFC2821] infrastructure, typically using the [RFC2476] 
   protocol. 
 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 3] 

=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
    
2.3. 
    Traditional Strategy 
    
   Traditionally, messages are initiated, edited, and assembled entirely 
   within an MUA, although drafts may be saved to an [RFC3501] server 
   and later retrieved from the server.  The completed text is then 
   transmitted to an MSA for delivery. 
    
   There is often no clear boundary between the editing and assembly 
   process.  If a message is forwarded, its content is often retrieved 
   immediately and inserted into the message text.  Similarly, once 
   external content is inserted or attached, the content is usually 
   retrieved immediately and made part of the draft. 
    
   As a consequence, each save of a draft and subsequent retrieve of the 
   draft transmits that entire (possibly large) content, as does message 
   submission. 
    
   In the past, this was not much of a problem, because drafts, external 
   data, and the message submission mechanism were typically located on 
   the same system as the MUA.  The most common problem was running out 
   of disk quota. 
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
    
2.4. 
    Step by step description 
    

 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 4] 


=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
   The model distinguishes between a Messaging User Agent (MUA), an 
   IMAPv4Rev1 Server ([RFC3501]) and a submit server ([RFC2476]), as 
   illustrated in Figure 1. 
    
        +--------------------+               +--------------+ 
        |                    | <------------ |              |   
        |     MUA (M)        |               | IMAPv4 Rev1  | 
        |                    |               |  Server      | 
        |                    | ------------> | (Server I)   | 
        +--------------------+               +--------------+ 
               ^  |                             ^     | 
               |  |                             |     | 
               |  |                             |     | 
               |  |                             |     | 
               |  |                             |     | 
               |  |                             |     | 
               |  |                             |     v 
               |  |                          +--------------+ 
               |  |------------------------->|              |   
               |                             |   Submit     | 
               |-----------------------------|   Server     | 
                                             |  (Server S)  | 
                                             +--------------+ 
                     Figure 1: Lemonade Pull Model 
             
    
   The Lemonade Pull Model allows a Messaging User Agent to compose and 
   forward an e-mail combining fragments that are located in an IMAP 
   server, without having to download these fragments to the server. 
    
   In the [BURL]/[CATENATE] variant of the pull strategy, messages are 
   initially composed and edited within an MUA.  The [CATENATE] 
   extension to [RFC3501] is then used to upload the message to the IMAP 
   server and assemble it, and finally a [URLAUTH] format URL is given 
   to a [RFC2476] server with the [BURL] extension for submission. 
 
   The flow involved to support such a use case consists of: 
      M: {to I -- Optional} The client connectects to the IMAP server 
     and IMAP Fetch of body structures and UIDs (See [RFC3501]) 
      
     Example: 
           M: A0051 FETCH 161 (UID BODYSTRUCTURE) 
           I: * 161 FETCH (UID 25627 BODYSTRUCTURE (("TEXT" "PLAIN" 
     ("CHARSET" "US-ASCII") NIL 
              NIL "7BIT" 1152 23)("TEXT" "PLAIN" ("CHARSET" "US-ASCII" 
     "NAME" 
              "cc.diff") 
              "<960723163407.20117h@washington.example.net>" "Compiler 
     diff" 
 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 5] 




=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
              "BASE64" 4554 73) "MIXED")) 
           I: A0051 OK completed 
      
      M: {to I} The client invokes CATENATE (See [CATENATE] for details 
     of the semantics and steps =9A this allows the MUA to create messages 
     on the IMAP using new data combined with body structure already 
     present on the IMAP server. 
      
     <<Editor=90s note: Draft editing/catenation is omitted for now>> 
      
        M: A0052 CATENATE Sent FLAGS (\Seen $MDNSent) TEXT {738} 
        I: + Ready for literal data 
        M: Return-Path: <bar@example.org> 
        M: Received: from [127.0.0.2] 
        M:           by rufus.example.org via TCP (internal) with 
     ESMTPA; 
        M:           Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:57:07 +0000 
        M: Message-ID: <419399E1.6000505@example.org> 
        M: Date: Thu, 12 Nov 2004 16:57:05 +0000 
        M: From: Bob Ar <bar@example.org> 
        M: X-Accept-Language: en-us, en 
        M: MIME-Version: 1.0 
        M: To: foo@example.net 
        M: Subject: About our holiday trip 
        M: Content-Type: multipart/mixed; 
        M:               boundary=3D"------------030308070208000400050907" 
        M:  
        M: --------------030308070208000400050907 
        M: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=3Dus-ascii; format=3Dflowed 
        M: Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit 
        M:  
        M: Our travel agent has sent the updated schedule. 
        M:  
        M: Cheers, 
        M: Bob 
        M: --------------030308070208000400050907 
        M:  URL "imap://imap.example.org/INBOX;UIDVALIDITY=3D385759045/; 
           UID=3D25627;Section=3D1.2" TEXT {44} 
        I: + Ready for literal data 
        M: --------------030308070208000400050907-- 
        M:  
        I: A0052 OK [APPENDUID 387899045 45] CATENATE Completed 
        M: A0053 UID STORE XXX +FLAGS.SILENT ($Forwarded) 
        I: A0053 OK STORE completed 
      
      
     << Editor=90s note: Recommend UIDPLUS extension =9A especially useful 
     when appending messages to a non-selected mailbox>> 
      
 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 6] 




=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
      M: {to I} The client uses GENURLAUTH command to request and 
     URLAUTH URL (See [URLAUTH]). 
      I: {to M} The IMAP server returns URLAUTH URL suitable for later 
     retrieval with URLFETCH (See [URLAUTH] for details of the semantics 
     and steps). 
      
     M: A0054 GENURLAUTH 
     "imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urla
     uth=3Dsubmit+bar" INTERNAL 
            I: * GENURLAUTH 
     "imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urla
     uth=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038" 
            I: A0054 OK GENURLAUTH completed 
 
      M: {to S} The client connects to the submission server and starts 
     a new mail transaction. It uses BURL to let the submit server fetch 
     the content of the message from the IMAP server (See [BURL] for 
     details of the semantics and steps =9A this allows the MUA to 
     authorize the submit server to access the message composed as a 
     result of the CATENATE step). 
      
     M: EHLO potter.example.org 
        S: 250-owlry.example.com 
        S: 250-8BITMIME 
        S: 250-BURL imap 
        S: 250-AUTH PLAIN 
        S: 250-DSN 
        S: 250 ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES 
        M: AUTH PLAIN aGFycnkAaGFycnkAYWNjaW8=3D 
        S: 235 2.7.0 PLAIN authentication successful. 
        M: MAIL FROM:<bob.ar@example.org> 
        S: 250 2.5.0 Address Ok. 
        M: RCPT TO:<ron@gryffindor.example.com> 
        S: 250 2.1.5 ron@gryffindor.example.com OK. 
        M: BURL 
     imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urlau
     th=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038 LAST 
      
      S: {to I} The submission server uses URLFETCH to fetch the message 
     to be sent (See [URLAUTH] for details of the semantics and steps. 
     The so-called "pawn-ticket" authorization mechanism uses a URI 
     which contains its own authorization credentials.). 
      I: {to S} Provides the message composed as a result of the 
     CATENATE step). 
      
     Submission server opens IMAP connection to the IMAP server: 
      
            I: * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 URLAUTH] example.com IMAP 
     server ready 
 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 7] 




=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
            S: a001 LOGIN submitserver secret 
            I: a001 OK submitserver logged in 
            S: a002 URLFETCH " 
     imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urlau
     th=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038" 
            I: * URLFETCH " 
     imap://bob.ar@example.org/Sent;UIDVALIDITY=3D387899045/;uid=3D45/;urlau
     th=3Dsubmit+bar:internal:91354a473744909de610943775f92038" {15065} 
            ...message body follows... 
            S: a002 OK URLFETCH completed 
      
     << Editor=90s note: The submission server may LOGOUT>>    
      
      S2: {to M} OK (2XX) 
      
     Submission server returns OK to the MUA: 
        S: 250 2.5.0 Ok. 
       
   The messaging user agent, mail server and submit server MUST support 
   IMAPv4 Rev1 [RFC3501], CATENATE [CATENATE] and URLAUTH [URLAUTH]. 
 
2.5. 
    Additional Considerations 
    
   The so-called "pawn-ticket" authorization mechanism uses a URI which 
   contains its own authorization credentials using [URLAUTH].  The 
   advantage of this mechanism is that the submit [RFC2476] server can 
   not access any data on the [RFC3501] server without a "pawn-ticket" 
   created by the client.  The "pawn-ticket" grants acces only to the 
   specific data that the submit [RFC2476] server is authorized to 
   access, can be revoked by the client, and can have a time-limited 
   validity. 
    
2.6. 
    The fcc problem 
    
   The "fcc problem" refers to a frequent need to deliver a copy of the 
   message to a "file carbon copy" recipient.  By far, the most common 
   case of fcc is a client leaving a copy of outgoing mail in a "sent 
   messages" or "outbox" mailbox. 
    
   In the traditional strategy, the MUA duplicates the effort spent in 
   transmitting to the MSA by writing the message to the fcc destination 
   in a separate step.  This may be a write to a local disk file or an 
   APPEND to a mailbox on an IMAP server.  The latter is one of the 
   "excessive and repetitive network data transmissions" which 
   represents the "problem" aspect of the "fcc problem". 
    
   The [CATENATE] extension to [RFC3501] addresses the fcc problem.  It 
   requires making several simplifying assumptions: 

 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 8] 


=0C
                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
       (1a) there is one, and only one, fcc destination on a single 
   server 
       (2a) the server which holds the fcc is the same as the server 
   which stages the outgoing message for submission 
       (3a) it is desired that the fcc be a copy of the complete message 
   text with all external data inserted in the message 
    
   << Editor=90s note: [POSTADDRESS] can be used to address issues (1a) 
   and (2a). To be done later>> 
    
3. 
  Media Conversion 
    
3.1. 
    Introduction 
    
   <<Editor=90s note: To be done when agreed by WG>> 
      
3.2. 
    Static media conversion 
    
   <<Editor=90s note: To be done when agreed by WG>> 
      
 
3.3. 
    Conversion of streamed media 
 
   <<Editor=90s note: To be done when agreed by WG>> 
 
3.4. 
    Quick Reconnect scheme 
    
   Mobile operators usually charge users for the time their mobile 
   client gets connected to the Internet and/or for the amount of 
   information sent/received. Thus a mobile client should minimize time 
   it stays connected to its mail server, which suggests that it should 
   disconnect and reconnect frequently. 
    
   Also, it is possible that the mobile client unexpectedly leaves area 
   of connectivity, which will require that the client reconnects when 
   connectivity returns. 
    
   << Editor=90s note: Discussion about voluntarily versa non-voluntarily 
   disconnects might go here>> 
    
   IMAP can be verbose. Usually, in order to synchronize a client with a 
   server after a disconnect, the client needs to issue at least the 
   following commands: LOGIN/AUTHENTICATE, SELECT and several FETCH 
   commands (see [IMAP-DISC] for more details). 
    
   Thus, there is a desire to have a quick reconnect facility in IMAP, 
   which will give a mobile client ability to resume a previously 
   abandoned session, without the need to perform the full 
   synchronization sequence as described above. 
 
 
=0CMaes                    Expires - August 2005                [Page 9] 











                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
    
    
   << Editor=90s note: Example is as per reconnect-02, syntax is subject 
   to change>> 
    
      S: * OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 STARTTLS AUTH=3DLOGIN CONDSTORE 
         X-DRAFT-W02-RECONNECT] imap.example.com IMAP4rev1 2001.315rh 
         at Thu, 15 Jul 2004 11:47:49 -0400 (EDT) 
      C: b0002 authenticate login (SID P1234567890 56789 
   20010715194045000 
      41,43:211,214:541) 
      S: + VXNlciBOYW1lAA=3D=3D 
      C: dGVzdDg=3D 
      S: + UGFzc3dvcmQA 
      C: dGVzdDg=3D 
      S: * FOLDER INBOX 
      S: * 464 EXISTS 
      S: * 3 RECENT 
      S: * OK [UIDVALIDITY 3857529045] UIDVALIDITY 
      S: * OK [UIDNEXT 550] Predicted next UID 
      S: * OK [HIGHESTMODSEQ 20010715194045007] 
      S: * 1 FETCH (UID 1 FLAGS (\Seen)) 
      S: b0002 OK [CAPABILITY IMAP4REV1 IDLE NAMESPACE MAILBOX-REFERRALS 
   SCAN 
      SORT THREAD=3DREFERENCES THREAD=3DORDEREDSUBJECT MULTIAPPEND] User 
      test8 authenticated 
 
4. 
  Future work 
    
   Future versions of the Lemonade profile are expected to address 
   issues related to access of email form mobile devices, possibly 
   including: 
      - transport optimization for low or costly bandwidth and less 
        reliable mobile networks 
      - server to client notifications outside of the traditional IMAP 
        band 
      - dealing with firewall and intermediaries 
      - compression 
      - filtering  
    
Security Considerations 
    
   Security considerations on the Lemonade Pull Model are discussed 
=0C   throughout section 2. 
    
   << Editor=90s note: TBD (Reconnect, etc.)>> 
    
References 
    
 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 10] 











                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
    
   [IMAP-DISC] Melnikov, A.  "Synchronization Operations For 
      Disconnected Imap4 Clients", IMAP-DISC, work in progress,  draft-
      melnikov-imap-disc-XX.txt 
    
   [RFC2119] Brader, S.  "Keywords for use in RFCs to Indicate 
      Requirement Levels", RFC 2119, March 1997.  
      http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2119 
    
   [RFC2180] Gahrns, M.  "IMAP4 Multi-Accessed Mailbox Practice", RFC 
      2180, July 1997.  
      http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2180 
    
   [RFC2234] Crocker, D. and Overell, P.  "Augmented BNF for Syntax 
      Specifications", RFC 2234, Nov 1997.  
      http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2234 
    
   [RFC2683] Leiba, B. "IMAP4 Implementation Recommendations", RFC 2683 
      Sep 1999. 
      http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2683  
    
   [RFC2821]  Klensin, J., "Simple Mail Transfer Protocol", RFC 2821, 
      April 2001. 
    
   [RFC2822] Resnick, P. "Internet Message Format", RFC 2822, April 
      2001.  http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2822 
     
   [RFC3501] Crispin, M. "IMAP4, Internet Message Access Protocol 
      Version 4 rev1", RFC 3501, March 2003. 
      http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3501 
    
   [RFC2476] Gellens, R. and Klensin, J., "Message Submission", RFC 
      2476, December 1998. 
    
   [CATENATE]Resnick, P., "Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP) 
      CATENATE Extension", draft-ietf-lemonade-catenate-XX, (work in 
=0C      progress). 
    
   [BURL]    Newman, C., "Message Composition", draft-ietf-lemonade-
      burl-xx (work in progress). 
    
   [URLAUTH] Crispin, M. and Newman, C., "Internet Message Access 
      Protocol (IMAP) - URLAUTH Extension", draft-ietf-lemonade-urlauth-
      XX.txt, (work in progress). 
    
   [POSTADDRESS] Melnikov, A., "IMAP4 POSTADDRESS extension", work in 
      progress, draft-melnikov-imap-postaddress-XX.txt 
    

 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 11] 











                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
   [RECONNECT] Melnikov, A. and C. Wilson, " IMAP4 extension for quick 
      reconnect ", work in progress, draft-ietf-lemonade-reconnect-
      XX.txt 
    
Version History 
    
   [1] We removed the sections of the profile related to mobile e-mail 
      as well as discussion. This will be part of the next version of 
      the Lemonade profile work. 
   [2] We added detailed examples for the different steps included in 
      section 2.4. 
   [3] We added section 3 on media conversion 
   [4] We added examples on Quick reconnect schemes in section 4. 
   [5] We updated the security considerations 
   [6] We fixed references based on updates above 
   [7] We added a future work section 
   [8] We fixed the boiler plate statements on the =D9status of this memo=96=
 
      and =D9Copriright=96. 
    
Acknowledgments 
    
   This document is based on the work in progress described in draft-
   crispin-lemonade-pull-xx.txt. 
 
Authors Addresses 
    
   Stephane H. Maes 
   Oracle Corporation 
   500 Oracle Parkway 
=0C   M/S 4op634 
   Redwood Shores, CA 94065 
   USA 
   Phone: +1-650-607-6296 
   Email: stephane.maes@oracle.com 
    
   Alexey Melnikov 
   Isode Limited 
   5 Castle Business Village 
   36 Station Road 
   Hampton, Middlesex 
   TW12 2BX 
   UK  
   Email: Alexey.melnikov@isode.com 
    
Intellectual Property Statement 
    
   The IETF takes no position regarding the validity or scope of any 
   intellectual property or other rights that might be claimed to 
   pertain to the implementation or use of the technology described in 
 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 12] 











                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
   this document or the extent to which any license under such rights 
   might or might not be available; neither does it represent that it 
   has made any effort to identify any such rights.  Information on the 
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   obtain a general license or permission for the use of such 
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   be obtained from the IETF Secretariat.  
            
   The IETF invites any interested party to bring to its attention any 
   copyrights, patents or patent applications, or other proprietary 
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   this standard.  Please address the information to the IETF Executive  
   Director. 
    
Acknowledgement 
    
   Funding for the RFC Editor function is currently provided by the 
   Internet Society. 
    
=0C    
=46ull Copyright Statement 
    
   Copyright (C) The Internet Society 2004. This document is subject to 
   the rights, licenses and restrictions contained in BCP 78, and except 
   as set forth therein, the authors retain all their rights.  
        
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   copyrights defined in the Internet Standards process must be 

 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 13] 











                          <Lemonade Profile>             February 2005 
 
 
   followed, or as required to translate it into languages other than 
   English.  
            
   The limited permissions granted above are perpetual and will not be  
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=0C 
 
Maes                    Expires - August 2005               [Page 14] 












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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Mar 10 13:32:29 2005
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My sense of the room from the LEMONADE session yesterday was that:

1. This version should require relative IMAP URLs and that absolute 
IMAP URLs (or any other kind of URL) would need an extension.

2. The base URL for evaluation of relative URLs should change to 
include the current mailbox in the selected state.

3. No "AUTH=" should be in the URL.

Assuming that is the desire of the list, how's this for replacement text:

    In the extended APPEND command, the string following "URL" is an IMAP
    URL [2] and is interpreted according to the rules of [2].  This
    document only describes the behavior of the command using IMAP URLs
    which refer to specific messages or message parts on the current IMAP
    server.  Because of that, only relative IMAP URLs (i.e., IMAP URLs
    which have no scheme or <iserver>) which refer to messages or parts
    of messages are used.  For evaluation of the relative URL, the base
    URL is considered "imap://user@server/", where "user" is the user
    name of the currently authenticated user, and "server" is the domain
    name of the current server.  When in the selected state, the base URL
    is considered "imap://user@server/mailbox", where "mailbox" is the
    encoded name of the currently selected mailbox.  Additionally, since
    the APPEND command is valid in the authenticated state of an IMAP
    session, no further LOGIN or AUTHENTICATE command is performed for
    URLs specified in the extended APPEND command, and therefore no
    ";AUTH=" string is used in the URL.

       Note: Use of an absolute IMAP URL or any URL that refers to
       anything other than a message or message part on the current IMAP
       server is outside of the scope of this document, would require an
       extension to this specification, and a server implementing only
       this specification would return NO to such a request.

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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The work group last call for BURL has completed.

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The work group last call for Future Delivery has completed.

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The work group last call for MMS Mapping completed a long time ago.

Thank you for your input.

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From: Eric Burger <eburger@brooktrout.com>
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Subject: [lemonade] Draft Day 1 Minutes
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Minutes by Eric Burger Compiled from Jabber Log taken by Pete and others

Goals in RFC Editor Queue
Server-to-Server Notifications Needs WG Chair Write-Up for IESG
MMS Mapping Needs WG Chair Write-Up for IESG
Future Delivery and BURL needs nits review
Tool to help nits review: http://ietf.levkowetz.com/tools/idnits/idnits.pyht

URLAUTH
-------
- url interpretation: basic concern is "what is the base url for relatively
interpretation? does it change in selected state as opposed to authenticated
state?"
- if you are going to use an absolute url we have an issue of a server
needing to know its own domain name and do you always want to include the
username
- an absolute url without a user seems to indicate an anonymous user
- Philip Gunther: favor of changing base url in selected state
- Chris Newman: the complexity is how to deal with ".." in a relative url?
seems to be consensus for selected state changing base URL for relative
urls, specifically, to "this mailbox"

Are absolute URLs allowed? is the client required to use relative URLs where
possible?
- general agreement that we should force clients to use relative URLs and
have a different extension for absolute URLs.
- John Klensin that disallowing absolute URLs is weird. Why have URLs at all
if we can only use relative URLs?
- Chris Newman: we should require relative URLs but need to make clear that
"/random/mailbox" refers to "random/mailbox"
Consensus that absolute URLs are out for this extension
";AUTH=" is also not allowed
Absolute URLs are syntactically allowed, but not supported by the CATENATE
extension.
Absolute URLs get a "NO" from the server.
Same for AUTH.
Needs new draft, new Chairs say enough has changed for new WGLC

Alexey notes there are some ABNF issues with IMAP URL RFC, which he sent to
Chris.,


Profile
-------
Greg V: are requirements on server only or client, too?  Consensus is
requirements are on server, but document needs to give hints to client for
how to use server extension.
Needs lots of work. Right now document is a tutorial. Needs to be a
standards document.

Security Issues
---------------
EKR: Comfortable if we use same authentication method for reconnect as for
initial IMAP connect. Using *only* a cookie opens up passive attack. Using
cookie after authentication is OK.
Alexey & Corby: This is how Quick Reconnect works today (using cookie after
full authentication).
Cyrus Daboo points out that this is needed for desktop clients, as well as
mobile clients.
Edwin Aoki asks about single use schemes (e.g., SecurId). EKR says that if
that is the authentication method, that is the authentication method.

Transcoding & Security
---------------------
Drawing on fact that there is a possibility for the server to hand the
encrypted session key to the client, the client can decrypt the session key,
and hand back the key to the server, we can (1) ANNOTATE clear key to
message, (2) decrypt message using session key and CATENATE message to
temporary/permanent storage, (3) hand session key over for each IMAP
operation.
One problem is key is part of encrypted blob. [BTW: Ned pointed out need for
separate carriage of key back in early 90's.] EKR points out that key almost
always lives in first 4KB of blob, so can hack extraction.
Jim Shod states that API's exist for S/MIME to do separate session key
extraction, session key decryption, and decryption of the message using the
decrypted session key.
Will form design team to address this issue.

On the streaming issue, URLAUTH addresses the Streaming Server-IMAP Server
association, so long as the Streaming Server is authenticated to the IMAP
Server; can use the same mechanism a SUBMIT server authenticates with the
IMAP server for forward-without-download. Normal IMAP authentication
addresses the IMAP Server-IMAP Client association. Using a secure channel
between the IMAP Client and Streaming Server should be OK (EKR), but Sam
Hartman separately expressed concern that the association between the IMAP
Client and the Streaming Server has to use the same method as the IMAP
Client and IMAP Server. For example, if the IMAP login does not use
certificates, then we should not require the use of certificates for the
IMAP Client-Streaming Server link.

Stan Turner volunteered to participate on e2e design team.

EKR volunteered to help review specific documents.

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Subject: [lemonade] WGLC for Server-to-Server Notification Requirements
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The work group last call for Server-to-Server Notification Requirements
completed a long time ago.

Thank you for your input.

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Mar 10 17:04:17 2005
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From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
To: Eric Burger <eburger@brooktrout.com>
Subject: Re: [lemonade] Draft Day 1 Minutes
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Could someone send me a list of what, precisely, needs to be done to the 
URLAUTH document to comply with the WG's decisions?

I also have a question: are these really changes to URLAUTH, or are they 
rather changes to URLAUTH *as used by LEMONADE* (e.g. CATENATE, etc.).

Do we need to spawn an additional document dictating usage of URLAUTH type 
URLs in the LEMONADE context, and cause the URLAUTH document itself to 
focus on the actual URLAUTH mechanism?

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Mar 10 18:32:07 2005
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Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 17:34:39 -0600
From: Chris Newman <Chris.Newman@Sun.COM>
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Subject: [lemonade] future delivery and quotas
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The future delivery specification does have the security consideration warning 
about filling up the MSA's queue space and suggests quota as a solution.  This 
is good.

Unfortunately, it does not tell what to do when a message can't be submitted 
for future delivery because the MSA storage for the submitting user would be 
over quota.  The X.2.2 Mailbox full status response from RFC 3463 is not 
appropriate because it refers to the recipient's mailbox.  We need a new 
response code to indicate that the sender's future delivery storage quota has 
been exceeded.

I suggest the future delivery spec update RFC 3463 with a new code (similar to 
the way BURL updates RFC 3463):
  X.7.9  Future Submission Quota Exceeded

This response code means future delivery is not permitted because the message 
size exceeds the submitting user's future delivery quota.  This further implies 
the client may be able to successfully send the message if future delivery is 
not used.

To simplify user management, it's my belief that the user's future delivery 
quota and their submission quota should be the same quota.  Thus deleting mail 
from the user's IMAP store may permit that user to submit mail for future 
delivery.  I don't believe it's necessary or desirable to communicate this.


The document should also have an informative reference to RFC 3885 as a way to 
confirm that a specific message is still queued for future delivery.

                - Chris


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From: "Vaudreuil, Greg M (Greg)" <gregv@lucent.com>
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Along the lines of guidance about error codes, what is the reasonable error code for the case where a client submits a message for an interval greater than the advertised maximum?  If feels like Protocol error? Should we make the error code for this case explicit?

In general, we don't have error codes for all the various ways a client can violate standards, but because we discuss this particular case often, if feels appropriate to offer specific guidance as to the appropriate error code.

Greg V.

-----Original Message-----
From: Chris Newman [mailto:Chris.Newman@Sun.COM]
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:35 PM
To: lemonade@ietf.org
Cc: g.a.white@comcast.com; GregV@ieee.org
Subject: future delivery and quotas


The future delivery specification does have the security consideration warning 
about filling up the MSA's queue space and suggests quota as a solution.  This 
is good.

Unfortunately, it does not tell what to do when a message can't be submitted 
for future delivery because the MSA storage for the submitting user would be 
over quota.  The X.2.2 Mailbox full status response from RFC 3463 is not 
appropriate because it refers to the recipient's mailbox.  We need a new 
response code to indicate that the sender's future delivery storage quota has 
been exceeded.

I suggest the future delivery spec update RFC 3463 with a new code (similar to 
the way BURL updates RFC 3463):
  X.7.9  Future Submission Quota Exceeded

This response code means future delivery is not permitted because the message 
size exceeds the submitting user's future delivery quota.  This further implies 
the client may be able to successfully send the message if future delivery is 
not used.

To simplify user management, it's my belief that the user's future delivery 
quota and their submission quota should be the same quota.  Thus deleting mail 
from the user's IMAP store may permit that user to submit mail for future 
delivery.  I don't believe it's necessary or desirable to communicate this.


The document should also have an informative reference to RFC 3885 as a way to 
confirm that a specific message is still queued for future delivery.

                - Chris

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The first two sentences in the abstract seem inconsistent.. or at least they read odd.  The Abstract states that the BURL is for submission of complete messages. This was expanded to include use of BURL for incorporation of message fragments in conjunction with BDAT.  I suggest rewording the abstract to maybe to indicate useful for submission of fully composed messages or for assembly of messages from various piece-parts.

It would be useful to add an example of mixing BURL and BDAT.  In particular, some details about getting the MIME boundary markers right for piece-wise assembled messages for reference content would help gain confidence.  

I think security considerations require that the IMAP server MUST be federated with the particular IMAP server a client is using before it should trust it to fetch info for that server.   Further, somewhere we need language that a SMTP-submission server should authentiate to the IMAP server in a submission role.  Is that text for the BURL document or the Lemonade profile?  I suspect the BURL document since this is supposed to be secure independent of Lemonade.  I think the examples should be enhanced to note this.

Greg V.

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In the spirit of getting the profile fleshed-out, I offer the following additional text for consideration.  This list exceeds what we discussed in the most recent meetings, but I believe that complexity can be reduced in the client if we set a firm baseline of required SMTP extensions. 


Section: Message Submission Profile

A LEMONADE compliant submission server is expected to implement a set of SMTP extensions to make message submission efficient.  LEMONADE is also an attempt to raise the bar for a new generation of clients and servers, and thus many well established extensions of proven value are required.  The following extensions are profiled for use by Lemonade clients.

Subsection: Future Delivery

Mobile and diverse clients may suffer from intermittent or unpredictable connectivity.  A common user end-user function  for message senders is to mark a message for future submission into the mail system.  For well-connected clients, the senders client can hold a message in the conceptual "outbox" until an appointed time, and them release the message.  For a client subject to coverage outage, battery outage, or higher priority tasks, the client may need to rely upon a well-connected server for this function.  

LEMONADE compliant submission servers MUST support the SMTP service extension for future delivery.  If future delivery is not permitted by policy, the submission server may advertise a future delivery interval of zero seconds.

LEMONADE clients requiring the ability to reliably send future delivery messages can expect that a lemonade submission server supports the SMTP service extension for future deliver (REF Futuredelivery].  Such clients may cache or otherwise remember the advertised future delivery interval from a previous submission transaction to guide the human user into the selection of a valid future delivery interval.  

Subsection: BURL Submission

LEMONADE Clients require SMTP-Submission support for the submission of complete messages composed on an IMAP message store. 

LEMONADE compliant submission servers must support the Message Submission BURL Extension [REF BURL].

Additional text needs to be worked out between the profile and the BURL document to address necessary security considerations.

Subsection: Binary and 8-bit MIME Transport

Mobile and diverse clients often connect over constrained bandwidth, especially upstream bandwidth used for submission of mobile originated contents such as picture, audio, or video content.  These large contents are canonically encoded into a binary content format.  Application of a content-transfer-encoding results in up to a 30% increase in total message size, a substantial penalty.  Further, any modern mail system should also support 8 bit clean transport.

LEMONADE Compliant submission serves MUST support the SMTP Service Extensions for Transmission of Large and Binary MIME Messages [REF RFC3030] in the submission service.  Servers MUST support downgrade to 8-bit transport as necessary to deliver the message to the next hop.  This is a stricter requirement than is specified in RFC30303 which permits a server to fail a message that requires downgrade.  Such behavior would defeat the purpose of this facility for Lemonade.  

LEMONADE Compliant submission servers MUST support the SMTP service extension for 8bitMIMEtransport. 

Lemonade clients can select among BDAT, BURL, and DATA transport based on the nature of the content to be submitted.  

Subsection: Pipelining

Mobile clients regularly use networks with a relatively high latency.  Avoidance of round-trips within a transaction has a great advantage for the reduction in both bandwidth and total transaction time.  For this reason Lemonade servers and clients should use SMTP command pipelining for message submission.

LEMONADE compliant submission servers MUST support the SMTP Service Extensions for Command Pipelining. [REF 2197]  

Clients would be crazy not to pipeline.

Subsection: TLS

LEMONADE clients may use the BURL extension to SMTP Submission, a protocol that requires sending a URLAUTH token to the submission server.  Such a token should be protected from interception to avoid a replay attack that will disclose the contents of the message to an attacker.  TLS based encryption of the SMTP submission path will provide protection against this attack.

LEMONADE Compliant submission servers MUST support SMTP Service Extension for Secure SMTP over TLS [REF 2487] supporting at least PLAIN authentication.  (magic words needed)

LEMONADE clients SHOULD use TLS protected submission channels when using BURL-based message submission to protect the URLAUTH token from interception.


Subsection: DSN Support

LEMONADE Clients are just as interested as any other in getting useful error reports service, so it seems reasonable to expect any self-respecting Lemonade system to support delivery status notifications.  

LEMONADE Servers MUST support SMTP service extensions for delivery status notifications.  Lemonade Servers MUST support SMTP service extensions for extended status codes.  


Subsection: Message size declaration

It is a real bummer to use minutes of expensive bandwidth to determine that the submitted video message is too long for the policy of the submission server. Therefore, lemonade servers and clients should use the SMTP Service Extension for Message Size Declaration.

LEMONADE Compliant Servers must support the SMTP Service Extension for Message Size Declaration [REF RFC 2927]




Greg V.

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On 3/10/05 at 2:03 PM -0800, Mark Crispin wrote:

>Could someone send me a list of what, precisely, needs to be done to 
>the URLAUTH document to comply with the WG's decisions?
>
>I also have a question: are these really changes to URLAUTH, or are 
>they rather changes to URLAUTH *as used by LEMONADE* (e.g. CATENATE, 
>etc.).

This was simply completely mislabeled in the draft minutes. The stuff 
under the title "URLAUTH" has nothing to do with URLAUTH. It's about 
the paragraph I posted earlier today with regard to the use of URLs 
in CATENATE. There is nothing that needs to be changed in URLAUTH at 
all.
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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On Fri, 11 Mar 2005, Pete Resnick wrote:
> This was simply completely mislabeled in the draft minutes. The stuff under 
> the title "URLAUTH" has nothing to do with URLAUTH. It's about the paragraph 
> I posted earlier today with regard to the use of URLs in CATENATE. There is 
> nothing that needs to be changed in URLAUTH at all.

OK, thanks.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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Pete Resnick wrote:

> There is nothing that needs to be changed in URLAUTH at all.

Except for addressing few issues I've posted earlier ;-).


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Vaudreuil, Greg M (Greg) wrote:

>Along the lines of guidance about error codes, what is the reasonable error code for the case where a client submits a message for an interval greater than the advertised maximum?  If feels like Protocol error? Should we make the error code for this case explicit?
>  
>
Returning "protocol error" seems appropriate in this case.

>In general, we don't have error codes for all the various ways a client can violate standards, but because we discuss this particular case often, if feels appropriate to offer specific guidance as to the appropriate error code.
>  
>


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Pete Resnick wrote:

> My sense of the room from the LEMONADE session yesterday was that:
> 
> 1. This version should require relative IMAP URLs and that absolute IMAP 
> URLs (or any other kind of URL) would need an extension.
> 
> 2. The base URL for evaluation of relative URLs should change to include 
> the current mailbox in the selected state.
> 
> 3. No "AUTH=" should be in the URL.
> 
> Assuming that is the desire of the list, how's this for replacement text:
> 
>    In the extended APPEND command, the string following "URL" is an IMAP
>    URL [2] and is interpreted according to the rules of [2].  This
>    document only describes the behavior of the command using IMAP URLs
>    which refer to specific messages or message parts on the current IMAP
>    server.  Because of that, only relative IMAP URLs (i.e., IMAP URLs
>    which have no scheme or <iserver>) which refer to messages or parts
>    of messages are used.  For evaluation of the relative URL, the base
>    URL is considered "imap://user@server/", where "user" is the user
>    name of the currently authenticated user, and "server" is the domain
>    name of the current server.  When in the selected state, the base URL
>    is considered "imap://user@server/mailbox", where "mailbox" is the
>    encoded name of the currently selected mailbox.  Additionally, since
>    the APPEND command is valid in the authenticated state of an IMAP
>    session, no further LOGIN or AUTHENTICATE command is performed for
>    URLs specified in the extended APPEND command, and therefore no
>    ";AUTH=" string is used in the URL.
> 
>       Note: Use of an absolute IMAP URL or any URL that refers to
>       anything other than a message or message part on the current IMAP
>       server is outside of the scope of this document, would require an
>       extension to this specification, and a server implementing only
>       this specification would return NO to such a request.

Maybe I'm missing something or just being thick, but doesn't this text 
imply that when in selected state, a message from a different mailbox on 
the same server can't be referenced?

The only difference that I would expect between legal URLs in 
authenticated and selected state is that in selected state, the mailbox 
name is optional if referring to a message in the currently selected 
mailbox:

/;UID=<nnn>

Otherwise, URLS of the following form are always allowed:

<mailbox>/;UID=<nnn>

(optionally using UIDVALIDITY)

-- 
Kenneth Murchison     Oceana Matrix Ltd.
Software Engineer     21 Princeton Place
716-662-8973 x26      Orchard Park, NY 14127
--PGP Public Key--    http://www.oceana.com/~ken/ksm.pgp

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On 3/11/05 at 9:22 AM -0500, Ken Murchison wrote:

>Maybe I'm missing something or just being thick, but doesn't this 
>text imply that when in selected state, a message from a different 
>mailbox on the same server can't be referenced?

No. If you start the relative URL with a "/<mailbox>", you can refer 
to any other mailbox.

>The only difference that I would expect between legal URLs in 
>authenticated and selected state is that in selected state, the 
>mailbox name is optional if referring to a message in the currently 
>selected mailbox:
>
>/;UID=<nnn>
>
>Otherwise, URLS of the following form are always allowed:
>
><mailbox>/;UID=<nnn>
>
>(optionally using UIDVALIDITY)

Or you could refer to a mailbox *in* the currently selected mailbox 
by skipping the leading "/".

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated

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Hi Alexey,

--On March 11, 2005 10:54:58 +0000 Alexey Melnikov 
<alexey.melnikov@isode.com> wrote:

>> There is nothing that needs to be changed in URLAUTH at all.
>
> Except for addressing few issues I've posted earlier ;-).
>

Also please add a 'capability' formal syntax element to both URLAUTH and 
CATENATE as per discussion in IMAPext:

For URLAUTH add:

        capability      =/  "URLAUTH"

For CATENATE add:

        capability      =/  "CATENATE"



-- 
Cyrus Daboo

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Mar 11 11:21:28 2005
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Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:19:52 -0500
From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com>
To: lemonade@ietf.org
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Subject: [lemonade] server-side cryptographic oeprations
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Since I have been thinking about this type of operations for a while, I 
though I would pass on my notes on this issue, as they may be useful. Feel 
free to comment on this, including pointing out any flaws...

Notes on server-side cryptographic operations:

NB Assumes that client<->server session is encrypted (TLS). Client has to 
implicitly trust the server to a degree in that unencrypted data may reside 
on the server, if even only on a temporary basis. However, user's private 
key/cert is not stored or passed to the server - it always resides on the 
client.

Signatures:

1. Client catenates message to the server
2. Client requests digital signature operation providing message seq/uid, 
crypto parameters (e.g. PGP or SMIME, hash type etc)
3. Server returns hash to client
4. Client processes hash with user private key to provide crypto 'signature 
packet'
5. Client sends 'signature packet' to server
6. Server builds multipart/signed using message and client signature data 
and stores in client specified mailbox

Alternatively the client could ask for the appropriate hash, and then 
catenate the multipart/signed itself to the server, using a reference to 
the original message. However, I would be vary of doing that, as it 
requires the server and client to 'generate' exactly the same data for the 
first part of the multipart/signed. For example, if the message being 
signed is only a single part (e.g. text/plain), in order to generate 
multipart/signed, the MIME headers from the top-level 2822 headers in the 
original message need to be extracted and placed in the first part of the 
multipart/signed so that the hash can be calculated over that. If the 
client and server differ in even the slightest way on how that header 
extraction is done (e.g. slightly different line wrapping) then that would 
break the digital signature. Thus I think it better for the entity 
generating the hash to also be responsible for creating the 
multipart/signed for consistency.

Encryption:

1. Client catenates message to the server
2. Client instructs server to encrypt message providing a list of 
recipients or public keys/certs to encrypt to
3. Server will lookup any recipient public keys/certs, if not provided
4. Server builds multipart/encrypted etc and stores in client specified 
mailbox

Alternatively, the encryption could be done as part of the catenate 
operation all in one go. The client would need to provide recipient or 
public key/cert data as part of the catenate operation.

Verify:

1. Client requests server to verify signature on message, optionally 
providing a public key/cert for the verification
2. Server will lookup any public key/cert, if not provided
3. If public key/cert is not found, server asks client to provide one, and 
fails if one is not returned
4. Server does verification of message using public key/cert
5. Server returns success code to client, along with appropriate crypto 
information for client display (e.g. details on the actually key ids used 
for signing, date/time of signature etc) and optionally sets 
keyword/annotations to indicate signature verification details on the 
actual message

Decrypt:

1. Client requests server to descrypt a message
2. Server extracts 'encrypted to/session key packets' from message and 
sends to client
3. Client examines server info to determine whether recipient private 
key/cert exists, and fails if not
4. Client uses appropriate private key/cert to decrypt session key
5. Client sends session key to server
6. Server decrypts message using session key and stores new message in 
client specified mailbox, and optionally sets keywords/annotations to 
indicate decrypt details

Obviously the details of what crypto 'packets' get extracted and passed 
around will depend on the type of crypto in use (i.e. PGP or SMIME). It may 
be necessary to define a 'generic framework' for these types of operations, 
and then have separate profiles for PGP and SMIME for practical 
implementations.

-- 
Cyrus Daboo

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Sat Mar 12 17:18:46 2005
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To: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com>
From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [lemonade] server-side cryptographic oeprations
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I think this is really good input into the discussion we're starting. 
I will leave it to the chair as to whether we should rope Cyrus into 
the design team discussed in Minneapolis.

Taking these in reverse order:

On 3/11/05 at 11:19 AM -0500, Cyrus Daboo wrote:

>Decrypt:
>
>1. Client requests server to descrypt a message
>2. Server extracts 'encrypted to/session key packets' from message 
>and sends to client
>3. Client examines server info to determine whether recipient 
>private key/cert exists, and fails if not
>4. Client uses appropriate private key/cert to decrypt session key
>5. Client sends session key to server
>6. Server decrypts message using session key and stores new message 
>in client specified mailbox, and optionally sets 
>keywords/annotations to indicate decrypt details

The more I think about it, the more I think this is probably right. 
Since it is not only a message, but perhaps a message part, that the 
client will want to decrypt, I think step 1 is more likely:

1. Client request encrypted session keys from a message or message part.

I also think that 5 becomes:

5. Client requests server to decrypt message (or part) into a 
specified mailbox given the decrypted session key.

I can see that being implemented with a modified APPEND command or a 
variant of CATENATE.

>Verify:
>
>1. Client requests server to verify signature on message, optionally 
>providing a public key/cert for the verification
>2. Server will lookup any public key/cert, if not provided
>3. If public key/cert is not found, server asks client to provide 
>one, and fails if one is not returned
>4. Server does verification of message using public key/cert
>5. Server returns success code to client, along with appropriate 
>crypto information for client display (e.g. details on the actually 
>key ids used for signing, date/time of signature etc) and optionally 
>sets keyword/annotations to indicate signature verification details 
>on the actual message

I think overall, this operation is pretty noncontroversial. The only 
thing I would point out here is that I wouldn't want the server 
"asking" the client anything. The client can either ask the server to 
verify without providing keys (which will fail if the server doesn't 
have or can't get the keys), the client can provide some keys it 
thinks are right (which will fail if they are the wrong keys), or the 
client can ask for MIME part with the signature, figure out which 
public key goes with that signature, and ask the server to verify 
providing that signature.

I also think there's another way to approach this one:

1. Client asks server for the MIME part with the signature. (Standard 
IMAP operation.)
2. Client asks server for the hash of the plain text message.
3. Client verifies the signature against the hash.

That requires the client to keep track of public keys and is more 
work for the client, but maybe it's an easy thing to provide.

>Encryption:
>
>1. Client catenates message to the server
>2. Client instructs server to encrypt message providing a list of 
>recipients or public keys/certs to encrypt to
>3. Server will lookup any recipient public keys/certs, if not provided
>4. Server builds multipart/encrypted etc and stores in client 
>specified mailbox
>
>Alternatively, the encryption could be done as part of the catenate 
>operation all in one go. The client would need to provide recipient 
>or public key/cert data as part of the catenate operation.

Yup. That all seems pretty straightforward.

>Signatures:
>
>1. Client catenates message to the server
>2. Client requests digital signature operation providing message 
>seq/uid, crypto parameters (e.g. PGP or SMIME, hash type etc)
>3. Server returns hash to client
>4. Client processes hash with user private key to provide crypto 
>'signature packet'
>5. Client sends 'signature packet' to server
>6. Server builds multipart/signed using message and client signature 
>data and stores in client specified mailbox

It seems that 5 & 6 seem could be done by the client simply 
catenating the new signed message to the server.

But this whole signature operation is the only one of the four that 
I'm a bit dubious about. There is something different about signing a 
message for which you've generated the hash and signing a message 
where the server has generated the hash. In the former, you're 
claiming that you know that the data was sent in a particular form. 
In the latter, you're claiming that you know the server said that the 
data was sent in a particular form. If you never sign your own 
messages, then there's no difference, but in that case why not give 
the server your private key for signing purposes?

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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Date: Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:09:14 -0500
From: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com>
To: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [lemonade] server-side cryptographic operations
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Hi Pete,

--On Saturday, March 12, 2005 04:17:06 PM -0600 Pete Resnick 
<presnick@qualcomm.com> wrote:

> On 3/11/05 at 11:19 AM -0500, Cyrus Daboo wrote:

>> Decrypt:

> The more I think about it, the more I think this is probably right. Since
> it is not only a message, but perhaps a message part, that the client
> will want to decrypt, I think step 1 is more likely:

Agreed, signed/encrypted data can appear not only at the 'top-level' of the 
message, but as any part within the message, so clients need to be able to 
communicate a body part specifier to the server.

>> Verify:

> I think overall, this operation is pretty noncontroversial. The only
> thing I would point out here is that I wouldn't want the server "asking"
> the client anything. The client can either ask the server to verify
> without providing keys (which will fail if the server doesn't have or
> can't get the keys), the client can provide some keys it thinks are right
> (which will fail if they are the wrong keys), or the client can ask for
> MIME part with the signature, figure out which public key goes with that
> signature, and ask the server to verify providing that signature.
>
> I also think there's another way to approach this one:
>
> 1. Client asks server for the MIME part with the signature. (Standard
> IMAP operation.)
> 2. Client asks server for the hash of the plain text message.
> 3. Client verifies the signature against the hash.
>
> That requires the client to keep track of public keys and is more work
> for the client, but maybe it's an easy thing to provide.

Bear in mind that there are non-clear-text signature options available and 
those bundle up the data and signature into one part (e.g. 
application/pkcs7-signature).

One of the tasks that the design team ought to do is enumerate all the 
possible message formats that can be used for sending cryptographic data, 
because those will dictate to a certain extent how this protocol will work 
given the facilities in IMAP etc. For example, crypto messages can contain:

multipart/signed
multipart/encrypted
application/pkcs7-signature
application/pkcs7-mime (typically used for S/MIME encryption - 
multipart/encrypted is not used with S/MIME)

Then there is the 'inline' mode of PGP with --- BEGIN PGP --- etc 
delimiters in the text. We should rule out support for that IMHO, as that 
mode is not at all IMAP friendly in that you cannot detect it without 
either searching on the server for the boundary strings, or downloading the 
content and doing local search for the strings. With the other types, they 
can all be detected via IMAP BODYSTRUCTURE.

Also, one thing I left out of my initial list was the combined 'encrypt & 
sign' and 'decrypt & verify' operations. We need to support those as well, 
so should ideally design the separate pairs of operations so that they can 
also work together for the combined crypto action.

>> Encryption:

>
> Yup. That all seems pretty straightforward.

>> Signatures:

> But this whole signature operation is the only one of the four that I'm a
> bit dubious about. There is something different about signing a message
> for which you've generated the hash and signing a message where the
> server has generated the hash. In the former, you're claiming that you
> know that the data was sent in a particular form. In the latter, you're
> claiming that you know the server said that the data was sent in a
> particular form. If you never sign your own messages, then there's no
> difference, but in that case why not give the server your private key for
> signing purposes?

If you want the client to do the actual hash calculation, then of course it 
has to have local copies of all the parts of the message being signed. 
However, it can still use catenate to reconstruct the message on the server 
without having to upload the parts already on the server. In other words 
you pay half of the cost of data transfer, with the tradeoff that you can 
be absolutely sure of what you are signing. You also have to make sure that 
the client and server generate EXACTLY the same message data byte-for-byte 
in order for the signature to be valid.

In terms of the private key - frankly I won't trust the server with my 
private key - or more specifically I don't trust the server admin. 
Alternatively if you do trust the server with your private key, then this 
whole protocol design becomes somewhat moot as all crypto operations take 
place on the server. The question of where the private key can reside is 
the first that has to be answered...


-- 
Cyrus Daboo

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To: Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com>
From: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>
Subject: Re: [lemonade] server-side cryptographic operations
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On 3/12/05 at 6:09 PM -0500, Cyrus Daboo wrote:

>Bear in mind that there are non-clear-text signature options 
>available and those bundle up the data and signature into one part 
>(e.g. application/pkcs7-signature).
>
>One of the tasks that the design team ought to do is enumerate all 
>the possible message formats that can be used for sending 
>cryptographic data, because those will dictate to a certain extent 
>how this protocol will work given the facilities in IMAP etc.

Yes. Blech. It will have to be a decision based on how much 
deployment of this stuff there is.

>Also, one thing I left out of my initial list was the combined 
>'encrypt & sign' and 'decrypt & verify' operations. We need to 
>support those as well, so should ideally design the separate pairs 
>of operations so that they can also work together for the combined 
>crypto action.

You would not support those by iterative operation?

>>But this whole signature operation is the only one of the four that 
>>I'm a bit dubious about. There is something different about signing 
>>a message for which you've generated the hash and signing a message 
>>where the server has generated the hash. In the former, you're 
>>claiming that you know that the data was sent in a particular form. 
>>In the latter, you're claiming that you know the server said that 
>>the data was sent in a particular form. If you never sign your own 
>>messages, then there's no difference, but in that case why not give 
>>the server your private key for signing purposes?
>
>If you want the client to do the actual hash calculation, then of 
>course it has to have local copies of all the parts of the message 
>being signed. However, it can still use catenate to reconstruct the 
>message on the server without having to upload the parts already on 
>the server. In other words you pay half of the cost of data 
>transfer, with the tradeoff that you can be absolutely sure of what 
>you are signing.

True enough, though I think we'd agree that downloading everything is 
not desirable in some cases.

>In terms of the private key - frankly I won't trust the server with 
>my private key - or more specifically I don't trust the server 
>admin. Alternatively if you do trust the server with your private 
>key, then this whole protocol design becomes somewhat moot as all 
>crypto operations take place on the server. The question of where 
>the private key can reside is the first that has to be answered...

I wasn't arguing that the server should have *your* private key; I 
agree that this would make the whole conversation moot. I was arguing 
that the server should have *a* private key if you want it to sign 
things. Then you're not saying that *you* signed the message; you're 
saying that the *server* signed the message. When you have (e.g.) PGP 
sign on a message on your local machine, you are saying, "The 
hardware and software that I have enough trust in to expose my 
private key to has generated this hash for this message." That's a 
very different statement from what you're suggesting.

Maybe we need some security input on this, but it seems to me that 
the exposure in this case is different from the other three.

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Mar 14 16:14:48 2005
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Having heard no further comments, I made a few minor changes to the 
text and submitted draft-ietf-lemonade-catenate-05. Please see 
<http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/> if you would like to have a look 
before the I-D editor posts the new draft.

Chairs: Would you please WG last call this document?

pr
-- 
Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: (858)651-1102

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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service environments Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Message Submission BURL Extension
	Author(s)	: C. Newman
	Filename	: draft-ietf-lemonade-burl-01.txt
	Pages		: 12
	Date		: 2005-3-10
	
The submission profile of Simple Mail Transfer Protocol (SMTP)
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Subject: [lemonade] IMPORTANT: WIRELESSCOM extension March 31 -- Symposium
	on Mobile Computing, 2005
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(Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP)

Due to the large number of requests, the submission deadline has been
extended to March 31.
-------------------------------------------------------------
                    Call for Papers
              Symposium on Mobile Computing
  http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~younis/WC_MobCom05.htm
                       as part of 
                IEEE WirelessCom 2005
Sheraton Maui Resort, Kaanapali Beach, Maui, Hawaii, USA
           http://sa1.sice.umkc.edu/wc05/ 
                   June 13-16, 2005
  Technical Sponsorship: IEEE TCCC, TCPC, and SSCTC


Recent years have witnessed an enormous growth in the development and
applications of mobile computing environments and devices. Many
practitioners envision a future empowered with context and location aware
computation and communication infrastructure that allow users to access data
and receive service at any place and any time. Compared to conventional
platforms, the mobility of computing nodes introduces many challenges to the
design of almost all systems components. 

This symposium will foster a forum for discussing and presenting recent
research results on mobile computer systems. Original papers are invited in
the broader area of mobile computing. Papers must report high-quality and
previously unpublished work. Topics of interest include, but are not limited
to, the following:

* Architecture and infrastructure support	
* Middleware and operating systems services
* Development platforms and environments
* Adaptive resource management schemes
* Pervasive and Context-aware Computing
* Performance metrics and studies
* Power aware computation and communication
* Data consistency and synchronization protocols
* Fault-tolerant architectural and operation models
* Wearable computing devices and systems
* Time constrained mobile systems
* Robust ad-hoc networking techniques
* Efficient localization techniques
* Wireless sensor networks
* Mobile peer to peer systems
* Quality of service provisioning
* Context-conscious computing
* Web caching and services
* Emerging applications and systems
* Mobile agents
* Mobile commerce
* Security and privacy issues


Submission Guidelines
---------------------
Original papers are solicited and must represent high-quality and previously
unpublished work, not currently under review by another conference or
journal. Prospective authors should submit their paper electronically
through https://msrcmt.research.microsoft.com/WirelessCom2005. All papers
are limited to 6 pages in standard IEEE double-column format. 

Important Dates
---------------
Paper Submission Deadline: 	March 31, 2005 (extended)
Notification of Acceptance: 	April 22, 2005
Camera-Ready Papers: 	May 1, 2005

Symposium Co-Chairs
-------------------
Mohamed Younis
Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of
Maryland Baltimore County, 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
Voice: (410) 455-3968,    FAX: (410) 455-3968
E-mail: younis@csee.umbc.edu 

Hesham El-Rewini
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Southern Methodist University
3145 Dyer Street, Dallas, TX 75205
Voice: (214) 768-3278,	FAX: (214) 768-3085
E-mail: rewini@engr.smu.edu


Publicity Chair
----------------
Moustafa Youssef
Department of Computer Science
University of Maryland at College Park,
College Park, MD 20742
Voice: (301) 405-0341,    FAX: (301) 405-6707
E-mail: moustafa@cs.umd.edu

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http://vpdfmqumsodae.amb5.com/p/sevy/20/euhoicdzv.sdx
Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. Give me a museum and I'll fill it. If we had no winter, the spring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity, prosperity would not be so welcome. Grove giveth and Gates taketh away. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. The power of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it. Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do. You can't be a real country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least you need a beer. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. Black holes are where God divided by zero. Everything in excess! To enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. This book fills a much-needed gap. C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. Love is life. And if you miss love, you miss life. We have art to save ourselves from the truth. Who so loves believes the impossible. C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. No matter what looms ahead, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjoy it and bless God for it. Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love
 is a growing up. How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance Black holes are where God divided by zero. Black holes are where God divided by zero. We have art to save ourselves from the truth. Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake. Distance between two hearts is not an obstacle; rather a great reminder of just how strong true love can be. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of the mind. A positive attitude will not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. In the end, everything is a gag. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. True friendship comes when the silence between two people is comfortable. Three o'clock is always too late or too early for anything you want to do. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant men are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce themselves. Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names. When we drink, we ge
t drunk. When we get drunk, we fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin, we go to heaven. So, let's all get drunk and go to heaven! Sometimes when reading Goethe I have the paralyzing suspicion that he is trying to be funny. Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. Love does not begin and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a growing up. The full use of your powers along lines of excellence. A witty saying proves nothing. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. The problem with the world is that everyone is a few drinks behind. Black holes are where God divided by zero. A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. I can write better than anybody who can write faster, and I can write faster than anybody who can write better. Facts are the enemy of truth. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. Egotist: a person more interested in himself than in me. God, please save me from your followers! Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches. People demand freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid. A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rather a person with a certain set of attitudes. Whenever I climb I am followed by a dog called 'Ego'. The great thing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind look
s at what happens. I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter. What lies behind us and what lies before us, are only small matters compared to what lies within us. Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce themselves. Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches. Sometimes our light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of us owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. I'll moider da bum. Talent does what it can; genius does what it must. The only way to get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. I'm all in favor of keeping dangerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. Give me a museum and I'll fill it. Everything has been figured out, except how to live. Thank you for sending me a copy of your book - I'll waste no time reading it. What lies behind us and what lies before us, are only small matters compared to what lies within us. If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe. In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. When you do the common things in life in an uncommon way, you will command the attention of the world. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. 

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<FONT face=3DArial>Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly a=
nd without expectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. The po=
wer of accurate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don=
't have it. Give me a museum and I'll fill it. If we had no winter, the sp=
ring would not be so pleasant; if we did not sometimes taste of adversity,=
 prosperity would not be so welcome. Grove giveth and Gates taketh away. N=
othing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe t=
hat something inside them was superior to circumstances. The power of accu=
rate observation is frequently called cynicism by those who don't have it.=
 Some cause happiness wherever they go; others, whenever they go. What the=
 world really needs is more love and less paper work. Three o'clock is alw=
ays too late or too early for anything you want to do. You can't be a real=
 country unless you have a beer and an airline. It helps if you have some =
kind of a football team, or some nuclear weapons, but at the very least yo=
u need a beer. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant water loses its purity and=
 in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inaction sap the vigor of th=
e mind. Black holes are where God divided by zero. Everything in excess! T=
o enjoy the flavor of life, take big bites. Moderation is for monks. This =
book fills a much-needed gap. C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foo=
t; C++ makes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. Goo=
d people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad peopl=
e will find a way around the laws. Love is life. And if you miss love, you=
 miss life. We have art to save ourselves from the truth. Who so loves bel=
ieves the impossible. C makes it easy to shoot yourself in the foot; C++ m=
akes it harder, but when you do, it blows away your whole leg. No matter w=
hat looms ahead, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with fr=
iends today enjoy it and bless God for it. Love does not begin and end the=
 way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war; love is a =
growing up. How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the wor=
ld she wants, rather than to create it herself. To love oneself is the beg=
inning of a lifelong romance Black holes are where God divided by zero. Bl=
ack holes are where God divided by zero. We have art to save ourselves fro=
m the truth. Victory goes to the player who makes the next-to-last mistake=
 Distance between two hearts is not an obstacle; rather a great reminder =
of just how strong true love can be. Iron rusts from disuse; stagnant wate=
r loses its purity and in cold weather becomes frozen; even so does inacti=
on sap the vigor of the mind. A positive attitude will not solve all your =
problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort. In =
the end, everything is a gag. Opportunity is missed by most people because=
 it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. What the world really need=
s is more love and less paper work. True friendship comes when the silence=
 between two people is comfortable. Three o'clock is always too late or to=
o early for anything you want to do. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes no=
t only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to frate=
rnize with itself. I do not consider it an insult, but rather a compliment=
 to be called an agnostic. I do not pretend to know where many ignorant me=
n are sure -- that is all that agnosticism means. The Babylon project was =
our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Sha=
dow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. T=
he year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.Never interrupt your enemy when he i=
s making a mistake. A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into th=
eorems. The great thing about television is that if something important ha=
ppens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the chann=
el. Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of lif=
e, and the labors of life reduce themselves. Forgive your enemies, but nev=
er forget their names. When we drink, we get drunk. When we get drunk, we =
fall asleep. When we fall asleep, we commit no sin. When we commit no sin,=
 we go to heaven. So, let's all get drunk and go to heaven! Sometimes when=
 reading Goethe I have the paralyzing suspicion that he is trying to be fu=
nny. Love is always bestowed as a gift - freely, willingly and without exp=
ectation. We don't love to be loved; we love to love. Love does not begin =
and end the way we seem to think it does. Love is a battle, love is a war;=
 love is a growing up. The full use of your powers along lines of excellen=
ce. A witty saying proves nothing. When solving problems, dig at the roots=
 instead of just hacking at the leaves. The problem with the world is that=
 everyone is a few drinks behind. Black holes are where God divided by zer=
o. A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses bot=
h. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, b=
efore he is born and long after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste,=
 and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children short on pocket m=
oney - but long on hugs. I can write better than anybody who can write fas=
ter, and I can write faster than anybody who can write better. Facts are t=
he enemy of truth. Blessed is the man who, having nothing to say, abstains=
 from giving us wordy evidence of the fact. Egotist: a person more interes=
ted in himself than in me. God, please save me from your followers! Fill w=
hat's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches. People demand=
 freedom of speech to make up for the freedom of thought which they avoid.=
 A happy person is not a person in a certain set of circumstances, but rat=
her a person with a certain set of attitudes. Whenever I climb I am follow=
ed by a dog called 'Ego'. The great thing about a computer notebook is tha=
t no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. =
Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the=
 attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the =
way your mind looks at what happens. I am ready to meet my Maker. Whether =
my Maker is prepared for the great ordeal of meeting me is another matter.=
 What lies behind us and what lies before us, are only small matters compa=
red to what lies within us. Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating t=
he needless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce themselves. Fill =
what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches. Sometimes ou=
r light goes out but is blown into flame by another human being. Each of u=
s owes deepest thanks to those who have rekindled this light. I'll moider =
da bum. Talent does what it can; genius does what it must. The only way to=
 get rid of a temptation is to yield to it. I'm all in favor of keeping da=
ngerous weapons out of the hands of fools. Let's start with typewriters. G=
ive me a museum and I'll fill it. Everything has been figured out, except =
how to live. Thank you for sending me a copy of your book - I'll waste no =
time reading it. What lies behind us and what lies before us, are only sma=
ll matters compared to what lies within us. If you want to make an apple p=
ie from scratch, you must first create the universe. In the End, we will r=
emember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. When=
 you do the common things in life in an uncommon way, you will command the=
 attention of the world. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepe=
n it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns int=
o a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take =
care of.=20</FONT>
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service environments Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP) CATENATE Extension
	Author(s)	: P. Resnick
	Filename	: draft-ietf-lemonade-catenate-05.txt
	Pages		: 11
	Date		: 2005-3-15
	
The CATENATE extension to the Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP)
allows clients to create messages on the IMAP server which may
contain a combination of new data along with parts of (or entire)
messages already on the server. Using this extension, the client can
catenate parts of an already existing message on to a new message
without having to first download the data and then upload it back to
the server.

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar 16 23:50:27 2005
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From: Rob Siemborski <rjs3+lemonade@andrew.cmu.edu>
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Subject: [lemonade] Alternate Reconnect Model
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The current authentication model used by the reconnect draft has several problems.

* The MITM attack I described earlier
* The problem of how to send the untagged responses directly following a
successful AUTHENTICATE or LOGIN command.

Additionally, it might be nice to be able to do multiple reconnects within 
a single connection (e.g. maintain a session for each of several folders, 
so that one would not have to reconnect in order to avoid resyncing each 
session.)  I propose the following model instead of what is in the current 
draft:

Instead of extending both LOGIN and AUTHENTICATE, add a separate RECONNECT 
command that takes an SID, and may be issued at any time during the 
session.

In this model, if the RECONNECT command is issued in a non-authenticated 
state, then the request is simply queued by the server (note that the 
server may issue an immediate BAD, but SHOULD NOT issue an immediate NO if 
the SID is bad, since the user isn't authenticated).  Obviously since the 
user isn't authenticated, an OK isn't possible. Note that these responses 
are all tagged.

When the session does finally enter the AUTHENTICATED state, then the 
server can finally process the RECONNECT command.  This allows the 
reconnect untagged responses to have their own tagged OK to indicate that 
the server has completed sending them, and does not potentially cause a 
problem with sending untagged responses before the AUTHENTICATE OK.

Note that it is probably prudent that if any commands are between the 
RECONNECT and the AUTHENTICATE or LOGIN, then the server SHOULD respond NO 
to the RECONNECT before processing the other command.  If another 
RECONNECT is issued before authentication, the server MUST respond NO to 
the first.

Also note that the RECONNECT can be pipelined with an AUTHENTICATE or 
LOGIN safely.

This model looks something like:

C: a RECONNECT (SID foo)
C: b AUTHENTICATE MY-MECH
S: + asdf
C: hjlk
S: b OK User Authenticated
S: * NEWSID asdf
S: * FOLDER INBOX
S: a OK Session Resumed

Note that this is the first time that we'd be actually requiring a server 
to perform out of order responses, but this is definately allowed by the 
spec (and clients should be able to support it for non-ambiguous cases 
such as this even today).

This also significantly mitigates the MITM problem (as I sent in my 
message, the server should also be sending back the SID to the client 
now).  This will still result in some data being improperly sent by the 
server, however.  But the client can completely avoid this at the expense 
of an additional round trip if it waits to send the RECONNECT until after 
the authentication has completed (provided this is all under integrity 
protection of course :).

----

You can also now perform multiple reconnects during a session.  Simply 
record the current modseq and contents, then issue a new RECONNECT 
command.  (It may be nice to extend CLOSE and UNSELECT to allow you to 
checkpoint a session also).

About the only thing I don't like about this is that it creates an 
interaction between two commands where the server needs to wait for the 
second before it responds to the first, which is ugly, but the benefits 
might be worth it.

-Rob

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Rob Siemborski        |     PGP:0x5CE32FCC     |      rjs3@andrew.cmu.edu 
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From carole1y@enu.com  Thu Mar 17 02:04:55 2005
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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Mar 17 04:01:41 2005
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Subject: Re: [lemonade] Alternate Reconnect Model
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On Thu Mar 17 04:49:32 2005, Rob Siemborski wrote:
> The current authentication model used by the reconnect draft has several problems.
> 
> * The MITM attack I described earlier
> * The problem of how to send the untagged responses directly following a
> successful AUTHENTICATE or LOGIN command.

Out of interest, is there any comparison in round-trips and data transfer between using RECONNECT and using the equivalent commands, assuming a CONDSTORE capable server, etc?

As far as I can tell, RECONNECT is purely a shorthand - nothing in either the current draft, nor Rob's suggestion here, gains any functionality over and above CONDSTORE.

Something like:

C: A01 AUTHENTICATE XMECH
...
S: A01 OK Completed.
C: A02 SELECT INBOX
C: A03 UID FETCH 1:* (FLAGS) (CHANGEDSINCE 1)
C: A04 UID SEARCH RETURN (ALL) UID 3000:*
S: ...

This is assuming that the A04 above is good enough to find all expunged messages, which generally speaking it seems to be in my experience.

This exchange appears, to me, to add one round-trip over RECONNECT, but not require a new extension. Moreover, it's reusable, just as Rob would like - A02-A04 above can be pipelined again for a different mailbox. The client just has to cope with A03 and A04 both returning BAD in the case where the SELECT fails.

Am I missing some crucial functionality here?

Dave.

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From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
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Draft -06 is a nits-correct draft only, and does not address Alexey's 
issues.

-- Mark --

http://staff.washington.edu/mrc
Science does not emerge from voting, party politics, or public debate.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Mar 18 09:41:43 2005
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From: Eric Burger <eburger@brooktrout.com>
To: lemonade@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [lemonade] future delivery and quotas
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 09:31:32 -0500
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Sound reasonable to me.  Does this open another DoS attack: fill both
mailbox and future delivery queue?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lemonade-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-bounces@ietf.org]On
> Behalf Of Chris Newman
> Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 6:35 PM
> To: lemonade@ietf.org
> Cc: g.a.white@comcast.com; GregV@ieee.org
> Subject: [lemonade] future delivery and quotas
> 
> 
> The future delivery specification does have the security 
> consideration warning 
> about filling up the MSA's queue space and suggests quota as 
> a solution.  This 
> is good.
> 
> Unfortunately, it does not tell what to do when a message 
> can't be submitted 
> for future delivery because the MSA storage for the 
> submitting user would be 
> over quota.  The X.2.2 Mailbox full status response from RFC 
> 3463 is not 
> appropriate because it refers to the recipient's mailbox.  We 
> need a new 
> response code to indicate that the sender's future delivery 
> storage quota has 
> been exceeded.
> 
> I suggest the future delivery spec update RFC 3463 with a new 
> code (similar to 
> the way BURL updates RFC 3463):
>   X.7.9  Future Submission Quota Exceeded
> 
> This response code means future delivery is not permitted 
> because the message 
> size exceeds the submitting user's future delivery quota.  
> This further implies 
> the client may be able to successfully send the message if 
> future delivery is 
> not used.
> 
> To simplify user management, it's my belief that the user's 
> future delivery 
> quota and their submission quota should be the same quota.  
> Thus deleting mail 
> from the user's IMAP store may permit that user to submit 
> mail for future 
> delivery.  I don't believe it's necessary or desirable to 
> communicate this.
> 
> 
> The document should also have an informative reference to RFC 
> 3885 as a way to 
> confirm that a specific message is still queued for future delivery.
> 
>                 - Chris
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> lemonade mailing list
> lemonade@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade
> 

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Mar 18 09:42:44 2005
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	sium on Mobile Computing, 2005
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What do people think of messages like this?  I can block it as spam, or
allow it as "of interest to the community".

PLEASE respond directly to me, and not to the list.

Thanks.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lemonade-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-bounces@ietf.org]On
> Behalf Of Moustafa Youssef
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 7:49 AM
> To: lemonade@ietf.org
> Subject: [lemonade] IMPORTANT: WIRELESSCOM extension March 31 --
> Symposium on Mobile Computing, 2005
> 
> 
> (Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP)
> 
[snip]

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Fri Mar 18 15:35:22 2005
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--NextPart

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Enhancements to Internet email to support diverse service environments Working Group of the IETF.

	Title		: Internet Message Access Protocol (IMAP) - URLAUTH Extension
	Author(s)	: M. Crispin
	Filename	: draft-ietf-lemonade-urlauth-06.txt
	Pages		: 5
	Date		: 2005-3-18
	
This document describes the URLAUTH extension to the Internet
    Message Access Protocol (IMAP) (RFC 3501) and the IMAP URL Scheme
    (IMAPURL) (RFC 2192).  This extension provides a means by which an
    IMAP client can use URLs carrying authorization to access limited
    message data on the IMAP server.

    An IMAP server which supports this extension indicates this with a
    capability name of "URLAUTH".

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Subject: RE: [lemonade] Alternate Reconnect Model
Date: Mon, 21 Mar 2005 09:41:32 -0600
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: lemonade-bounces@ietf.org=20
> [mailto:lemonade-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of ext Rob Siemborski
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 23:50 PM
> To: lemonade@ietf.org
> Subject: [lemonade] Alternate Reconnect Model
>=20
> The current authentication model used by the reconnect draft=20
> has several problems.
>=20
> * The MITM attack I described earlier
> * The problem of how to send the untagged responses directly=20
> following a successful AUTHENTICATE or LOGIN command.
>=20
> Additionally, it might be nice to be able to do multiple reconnects
within=20
> a single connection (e.g. maintain a session for each of several
folders,=20
> so that one would not have to reconnect in order to avoid resyncing
each session.)

Several people have tried to address this where we can sync multiple
folders simultaneously.
I don't think QR should be the method to solve this since it goes so far
beyond QR and can be a more generalized method for quick sync and
multi-folder notifications through IDLE.

>  I propose the following model instead of what is in the current=20
> draft:
>=20
> Instead of extending both LOGIN and AUTHENTICATE, add a separate
RECONNECT=20
> command that takes an SID, and may be issued at any time during the=20
> session.

Allowing it to be issued at any time seems to defeat the purpose of
doing a QR at the beginning of the session.
I do agree that we may not want to bind the action into a specified
sequence, but allow it to be executed asynchronously.

>=20
> In this model, if the RECONNECT command is issued in a
non-authenticated=20
> state, then the request is simply queued by the server (note that the=20
> server may issue an immediate BAD, but SHOULD NOT issue an immediate
NO if=20
> the SID is bad, since the user isn't authenticated). =20
> Obviously since the user isn't authenticated, an OK isn't possible.
Note that=20
> these responses are all tagged.

I definitley would NOT want to allow this in non authenticated state.
It breaks the security model.
It allows DoS attacks at pre-auth time.
It also exports account state information without requiring
authentication (If no BAD or NO is received, assume the SID is correct).
This is a fundamental breach in security.

>=20
> When the session does finally enter the AUTHENTICATED state, then the=20
> server can finally process the RECONNECT command.  This allows the=20
> reconnect untagged responses to have their own tagged OK to indicate
that=20
> the server has completed sending them, and does not potentially cause
a=20
> problem with sending untagged responses before the AUTHENTICATE OK.

This may cause undetermenistic behavior between the client-server
communication.
Say I issue a RECONNECT w/SID pre-auth and don't authenticate.
Now I log in with another device which has a different SID.  Which SID
should the server process?
The delay in processing generates a processing hole which generates
quite a few corner cases.

>=20
> Note that it is probably prudent that if any commands are between the=20
> RECONNECT and the AUTHENTICATE or LOGIN, then the server SHOULD
respond NO=20
> to the RECONNECT before processing the other command.  If another=20
> RECONNECT is issued before authentication, the server MUST respond NO
to=20
> the first.
>=20
> Also note that the RECONNECT can be pipelined with an AUTHENTICATE or=20
> LOGIN safely.
>=20
> This model looks something like:
>=20
> C: a RECONNECT (SID foo)
> C: b AUTHENTICATE MY-MECH
> S: + asdf
> C: hjlk
> S: b OK User Authenticated
> S: * NEWSID asdf
> S: * FOLDER INBOX
> S: a OK Session Resumed
>=20
> Note that this is the first time that we'd be actually=20
> requiring a server to perform out of order responses, but this is
definately=20
> allowed by the spec (and clients should be able to support it for=20
> non-ambiguous cases such as this even today).
>=20
> This also significantly mitigates the MITM problem (as I sent in my=20
> message, the server should also be sending back the SID to the client=20
> now).  This will still result in some data being improperly=20
> sent by the server, however.  But the client can completely avoid this
at=20
> the expense of an additional round trip if it waits to send the
RECONNECT=20
> until after the authentication has completed (provided this is all
under=20
> integrity protection of course :).
>=20
> ----
>=20
> You can also now perform multiple reconnects during a=20
> session.  Simply record the current modseq and contents, then issue a
new RECONNECT=20
> command.  (It may be nice to extend CLOSE and UNSELECT to allow you to

> checkpoint a session also).
>=20
> About the only thing I don't like about this is that it creates an=20
> interaction between two commands where the server needs to wait for
the=20
> second before it responds to the first, which is ugly, but=20
> the benefits might be worth it.

Agreed, it is ugly.  I'd prefer this to be as clean and simple as
possible.
I will take a look at your sugestions and see if they mesh.
The only part here I strenuously object to is the multi folder sync.  I
think this should be a separate draft.


>=20
> -Rob
>=20
> --------------------------------------------------------------
> -----------
> Rob Siemborski        |     PGP:0x5CE32FCC     |     =20
> rjs3@andrew.cmu.edu=20
> -----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK----
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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Mar 21 14:53:39 2005
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As promised, and on time, Pete delivered CATENATE.

http://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ietf-lemonade-catenate-05.txt

It is now our turn to get it reviewed.

WGLC is hereby open.  WGLC is scheduled to close at 5pm ET on Monday, April
4.

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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Mar 21 16:04:08 2005
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In section 3:
 - I suggest putting the numbers in parens to match the majority of
   already existing SMTP extension RFCs
 - ditto for putting the name of the extension (the second paragraph)
   as item (1) in the list and moving the others down one
 - in what's currently item (3), change "required parameter" to
   "optional parameter"

Section 4.1.1, item 1 seems redundant; if you want to use the
extension, you have to use the extension.  Or maybe this is a
statement that a client that uses some other mechanism to access
this capability in the MSA is not compliant with _this_ spec?  That
would make this statement a ban on other classes of extensions,
which seems out of scope or inappropriate for an RFC.  Would this
make a client that supports a prestandardization version of this
extension non-compliant?  Item 3 also seems unnecessary; if the
server isn't advertising this extension, than use of the 'AFTER'
parameter is not bound by this extension but rather the base doc,
RFC 2821.  Indeed, I can find no other SMTP extension that states
such a requirement on clients.

Section 4.1.2, item 2 seem redundant as well: isn't it implicit in
the fact that this extension is via the extension mechanism in 2821?
If an MSA doesn't support the 2821 extension mechs, then it isn't
non-compliant to support Future Delivery, it's *impossible*!

For section 4.1.2, item 3, what would it mean for an MSA to support
Future Delivery without advertising it?  I.e., what server behavior
is this 'MUST' banning and does such behavior really endanger
interoperability such that a 'MUST' is in order?  (I would just
drop this item)

Regarding section 4.2, should there be a note that a DSN from a
message submitted with the Future Delivery extension won't include
the Future-Delivery-Date: field and might not include the Arrival-Date:
field if the MDN wasn't generated by the MSA?  For example, clients
cannot depend on those fields being present as a replacement for
use of the envelope-ID via the DSN ENV parameter.

Regarding section 6 (IANA), isn't the registration process for SMTP
extensions exactly that a Standards Track RFC describing the extension
has been published?  At least that's how I read RFC 1869 and RFC 2821.


Philip Guenther
guenther@sendmail.com

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From hided@emailaccount.com  Tue Mar 22 21:33:22 2005
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

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 Luis Dooley
 
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From andi@yebox.com  Tue Mar 22 21:48:04 2005
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Subject: Lowest rate approval
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

 http://www.sarefi.net/?id=n51



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 Myles Crow
 
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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Wed Mar 23 11:47:43 2005
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From: Eric Burger <eburger@brooktrout.com>
To: Pete Resnick <presnick@qualcomm.com>, Cyrus Daboo <daboo@isamet.com>
Subject: RE: [lemonade] server-side cryptographic oeprations
Date: Wed, 23 Mar 2005 11:35:34 -0500
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One idea from the PGP list is:

  Let's say we have a message with a large, encrypted attachment.  I don't
trust the server that much, or, for that matter, I know from out-of-band
methods what is in the attachment.  Either way, I don't have a need to
decrypt the message.  Now let's say I want to forward that message securely.
Rather than having to decrypt the message, all I have to do is encrypt the
session key with the public key of the recipient.

Very elegant.

Yet another operation (Forward-without-download without modification using
THIS key).

> -----Original Message-----
> From: lemonade-bounces@ietf.org [mailto:lemonade-bounces@ietf.org]On
> Behalf Of Pete Resnick
> Sent: Saturday, March 12, 2005 5:17 PM
> To: Cyrus Daboo
> Cc: lemonade@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [lemonade] server-side cryptographic oeprations
> 
> 
> I think this is really good input into the discussion we're starting. 
> I will leave it to the chair as to whether we should rope Cyrus into 
> the design team discussed in Minneapolis.
> 
> Taking these in reverse order:
> 
> On 3/11/05 at 11:19 AM -0500, Cyrus Daboo wrote:
> 
> >Decrypt:
> >
> >1. Client requests server to descrypt a message
> >2. Server extracts 'encrypted to/session key packets' from message 
> >and sends to client
> >3. Client examines server info to determine whether recipient 
> >private key/cert exists, and fails if not
> >4. Client uses appropriate private key/cert to decrypt session key
> >5. Client sends session key to server
> >6. Server decrypts message using session key and stores new message 
> >in client specified mailbox, and optionally sets 
> >keywords/annotations to indicate decrypt details
> 
> The more I think about it, the more I think this is probably right. 
> Since it is not only a message, but perhaps a message part, that the 
> client will want to decrypt, I think step 1 is more likely:
> 
> 1. Client request encrypted session keys from a message or 
> message part.
> 
> I also think that 5 becomes:
> 
> 5. Client requests server to decrypt message (or part) into a 
> specified mailbox given the decrypted session key.
> 
> I can see that being implemented with a modified APPEND command or a 
> variant of CATENATE.
> 
> >Verify:
> >
> >1. Client requests server to verify signature on message, optionally 
> >providing a public key/cert for the verification
> >2. Server will lookup any public key/cert, if not provided
> >3. If public key/cert is not found, server asks client to provide 
> >one, and fails if one is not returned
> >4. Server does verification of message using public key/cert
> >5. Server returns success code to client, along with appropriate 
> >crypto information for client display (e.g. details on the actually 
> >key ids used for signing, date/time of signature etc) and optionally 
> >sets keyword/annotations to indicate signature verification details 
> >on the actual message
> 
> I think overall, this operation is pretty noncontroversial. The only 
> thing I would point out here is that I wouldn't want the server 
> "asking" the client anything. The client can either ask the server to 
> verify without providing keys (which will fail if the server doesn't 
> have or can't get the keys), the client can provide some keys it 
> thinks are right (which will fail if they are the wrong keys), or the 
> client can ask for MIME part with the signature, figure out which 
> public key goes with that signature, and ask the server to verify 
> providing that signature.
> 
> I also think there's another way to approach this one:
> 
> 1. Client asks server for the MIME part with the signature. (Standard 
> IMAP operation.)
> 2. Client asks server for the hash of the plain text message.
> 3. Client verifies the signature against the hash.
> 
> That requires the client to keep track of public keys and is more 
> work for the client, but maybe it's an easy thing to provide.
> 
> >Encryption:
> >
> >1. Client catenates message to the server
> >2. Client instructs server to encrypt message providing a list of 
> >recipients or public keys/certs to encrypt to
> >3. Server will lookup any recipient public keys/certs, if 
> not provided
> >4. Server builds multipart/encrypted etc and stores in client 
> >specified mailbox
> >
> >Alternatively, the encryption could be done as part of the catenate 
> >operation all in one go. The client would need to provide recipient 
> >or public key/cert data as part of the catenate operation.
> 
> Yup. That all seems pretty straightforward.
> 
> >Signatures:
> >
> >1. Client catenates message to the server
> >2. Client requests digital signature operation providing message 
> >seq/uid, crypto parameters (e.g. PGP or SMIME, hash type etc)
> >3. Server returns hash to client
> >4. Client processes hash with user private key to provide crypto 
> >'signature packet'
> >5. Client sends 'signature packet' to server
> >6. Server builds multipart/signed using message and client signature 
> >data and stores in client specified mailbox
> 
> It seems that 5 & 6 seem could be done by the client simply 
> catenating the new signed message to the server.
> 
> But this whole signature operation is the only one of the four that 
> I'm a bit dubious about. There is something different about signing a 
> message for which you've generated the hash and signing a message 
> where the server has generated the hash. In the former, you're 
> claiming that you know that the data was sent in a particular form. 
> In the latter, you're claiming that you know the server said that the 
> data was sent in a particular form. If you never sign your own 
> messages, then there's no difference, but in that case why not give 
> the server your private key for signing purposes?
> 
> pr
> -- 
> Pete Resnick <http://www.qualcomm.com/~presnick/>
> QUALCOMM Incorporated - Direct phone: (858)651-4478, Fax: 
> (858)651-1102
> 
> _______________________________________________
> lemonade mailing list
> lemonade@ietf.org
> https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade
> 

_______________________________________________
lemonade mailing list
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http://djivxxjmtuscqdkzsycvwx6v2aev.elreposteg.ws/
Maybe this world is another planet's Hell. Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation I have while working. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. Dancing is silent poetry. Opportunity is missed by most people because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. Luck is the residue of design. Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the needless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce themselves. The Babylon project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the year of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.What do you take me for, an idiot? All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. He who has a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'. We have art to save ourselves from the truth. His ignorance is encyclopedic All right, Brain, I don't like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. I'll moider da bum. It is better to have a permanent income than to be fascinating. Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be looking for it Hatch a dream and then believe it. It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid. Whether you think that you can, or that you can't, you are usually right. Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever. Love is the energy of the soul. Love is what heals the personality. There is nothing that cannot be healed by love. There is nothing but love. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop speech when words become superfluous. The power of accurate observation is frequentl
y called cynicism by those who don't have it. A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. Once is happenstance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. The full use of your powers along lines of excellence. The man who says I told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. No elected body is the country, we are the country. You and me. Us. It can only stay that way as long as we care to keep it so. A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you. Not because they are nice, but because you are. The Eskimo has fifty-two names for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for love. If a man does his best, what else is there? I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. Once you eliminate the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the truth. Don't be so humble - you are not that great. Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. Books are the shoes with which we tread the footsteps of great minds. A mathematician is a device for turning coffee into theorems. Don't stay in bed, unless you can make money in bed. Those who are willing to sacrifi
ce essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. How wrong it is for a woman to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it herself. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. Love is life. And if you miss love, you miss life. I would have made a good Pope. Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as by the way your mind looks at what happens. If you find a path with no obstacles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. He who has a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'. God, please save me from your followers! Talent does what it can; genius does what it must. A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance Luck is the residue of design. Facts are the enemy of truth. Maybe this world is another planet's Hell. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. Take away love and our earth is a tomb. From the moment I picked your book up until I laid it down I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it. No elected body is the country, we are the country. You and me. Us. It can only stay that way as long as we care to keep it so. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. It is unbecoming for young men to utter maxims. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. This book fills a much-needed gap. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. What contemptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? The game of life is not so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a ... brain operation. The difference between 'involvement' 
and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. He who has a 'why' to live, can bear with almost any 'how'. Thank you for sending me a copy of your book - I'll waste no time reading it. I discovered I always have choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. A doctor can bury his mistakes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. Do, or do not. There is no 'try'. Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producing random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. I would have made a good Pope. When you're in love you never really know whether your elation comes from the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to her; whether the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, from her, or from the meeting of your sparks. In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. No one can earn a million dollars honestly. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. Always remember that I have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. All right, Brain, I don't like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you with beer. 

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<FONT face=3DArial>Maybe this world is another planet's Hell. Basically, I=
 no longer work for anything but the sensation I have while working. It is=
 much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one=
's doubts. Dancing is silent poetry. Opportunity is missed by most people =
because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work. Abstainer: a weak p=
erson who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. Luck is =
the residue of design. Reduce the complexity of life by eliminating the ne=
edless wants of life, and the labors of life reduce themselves. The Babylo=
n project was our last, best hope for peace. .. It failed. .. But in the y=
ear of the Shadow war it became something greater: our last, best hope .. =
for victory. The year is 2260, the place: Babylon 5.What do you take me fo=
r, an idiot? All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed=
 Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evi=
dent. Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. He who has a 'why' to live, ca=
n bear with almost any 'how'. We have art to save ourselves from the truth=
 His ignorance is encyclopedic All right, Brain, I don't like you and you=
 don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back to killing you w=
ith beer. I'll moider da bum. It is better to have a permanent income than=
 to be fascinating. Success usually comes to those who are too busy to be =
looking for it Hatch a dream and then believe it. It is dangerous to be si=
ncere unless you are also stupid. Whether you think that you can, or that =
you can't, you are usually right. Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is fore=
ver. Love is the energy of the soul. Love is what heals the personality. T=
here is nothing that cannot be healed by love. There is nothing but love. =
I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. Love is the immortal =
flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is =
life. A kiss is a lovely trick designed by nature to stop speech when word=
s become superfluous. The power of accurate observation is frequently call=
ed cynicism by those who don't have it. A doctor can bury his mistakes but=
 an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. Once is happenst=
ance. Twice is coincidence. Three times is enemy action. I have often regr=
etted my speech, never my silence. Always do sober what you said you'd do =
drunk. That will teach you to keep your mouth shut. Love is the immortal f=
low of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is l=
ife. Always do sober what you said you'd do drunk. That will teach you to =
keep your mouth shut. If everything seems under control, you're just not g=
oing fast enough. I have often regretted my speech, never my silence. It i=
s much more comfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have on=
e's doubts. The full use of your powers along lines of excellence. The man=
 who says I told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his positio=
n clearly in the first place. What the world really needs is more love and=
 less paper work. No elected body is the country, we are the country. You =
and me. Us. It can only stay that way as long as we care to keep it so. A =
woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. =
When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the lea=
ves. Treat everyone with politeness, even those who are rude to you. Not b=
ecause they are nice, but because you are. The Eskimo has fifty-two names =
for snow because it is important to them; there ought to be as many for lo=
ve. If a man does his best, what else is there? I discovered I always have=
 choices and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. Once you eliminate =
the impossible, whatever remains, no matter how improbable, must be the tr=
uth. Don't be so humble - you are not that great. Try not to become a man =
of success but rather to become a man of value. Books are the shoes with w=
hich we tread the footsteps of great minds. A mathematician is a device fo=
r turning coffee into theorems. Don't stay in bed, unless you can make mon=
ey in bed. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a li=
ttle order, will lose both and deserve neither. How wrong it is for a woma=
n to expect the man to build the world she wants, rather than to create it=
 herself. Problems worthy of attack prove their worth by fighting back. Lo=
ve is life. And if you miss love, you miss life. I would have made a good =
Pope. Your living is determined not so much by what life brings to you as =
by the attitude you bring to life; not so much by what happens to you as b=
y the way your mind looks at what happens. If you find a path with no obst=
acles, it probably doesn't lead anywhere. He who has a 'why' to live, can =
bear with almost any 'how'. God, please save me from your followers! Talen=
t does what it can; genius does what it must. A people that values its pri=
vileges above its principles soon loses both. To love oneself is the begin=
ning of a lifelong romance Luck is the residue of design. Facts are the en=
emy of truth. Maybe this world is another planet's Hell. When solving prob=
lems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the leaves. Take away lo=
ve and our earth is a tomb. From the moment I picked your book up until I =
laid it down I was convulsed with laughter. Some day I intend reading it. =
No elected body is the country, we are the country. You and me. Us. It can=
 only stay that way as long as we care to keep it so. The ultimate measure=
 of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, bu=
t where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. It is unbecoming =
for young men to utter maxims. Always remember that I have taken more out =
of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. This book fills a much-needed=
 gap. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared be=
lieve that something inside them was superior to circumstances. What conte=
mptible scoundrel has stolen the cork to my lunch? The game of life is not=
 so much in holding a good hand as playing a poor hand well. I'd rather ha=
ve a bottle in front of me than a ... brain operation. The difference betw=
een 'involvement' and 'commitment' is like an eggs-and-ham breakfast: the =
chicken was 'involved' - the pig was 'committed'. He who has a 'why' to li=
ve, can bear with almost any 'how'. Thank you for sending me a copy of you=
r book - I'll waste no time reading it. I discovered I always have choices=
 and sometimes it's only a choice of attitude. A doctor can bury his mista=
kes but an architect can only advise his clients to plant vines. The great=
 thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in=
 the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. Do, or do not=
 There is no 'try'. Anyone who considers arithmetical methods of producin=
g random digits is, of course, in a state of sin. I would have made a good=
 Pope. When you're in love you never really know whether your elation come=
s from the qualities of the one you love, or if it attributes them to her;=
 whether the light which surrounds her like a halo comes from you, from he=
r, or from the meeting of your sparks. In science one tries to tell people=
, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one eve=
r knew before. But in poetry, it's the exact opposite. Change is inevitabl=
e, except from vending machines. No one can earn a million dollars honestl=
y. When solving problems, dig at the roots instead of just hacking at the =
leaves. Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. Always remember that I =
have taken more out of alcohol than alcohol has taken out of me. You can w=
iden your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encou=
nter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have t=
oo many, only too many to properly take care of. All right, Brain, I don't=
 like you and you don't like me -- so let's just do this and I'll get back=
 to killing you with beer.=20</FONT>
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------=0SK_07V3820GI_02T.117Y88U0--


From ounia@yebox.com  Sun Mar 27 05:56:42 2005
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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 12:55:25 +0200
From: "Agnes Schulz" <ounia@yebox.com>
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To: ldapext@ietf.org
Cc: ldapext-admin@ietf.org, ldapext-archive@ietf.org,
        ldapext-web-archive@ietf.org, lemonade@ietf.org,
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        leslie.rice@ietf.org, licy@ietf.org, lionel.peters@ietf.org,
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Subject: You've been selected for a low rate
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

 http://www.forever-mrt-now.net/nowss.asp



 Best Regards,

 Lacey Trent
 
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 this process takes one week, so please be patient. we do our 
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From dcamp@emailaccount.com  Sun Mar 27 07:07:48 2005
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Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2005 06:02:43 -0600
From: "Britney Maloney" <dcamp@emailaccount.com>
To: ldapext@ietf.org
Cc: ldapext-admin@ietf.org, ldapext-archive@ietf.org,
        ldapext-web-archive@ietf.org, lemonade@ietf.org,
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Subject: Rates fixed 
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

 http://www.forever-mrt-now.net/nowss.asp



 Best Regards,

 Lane Hunt
 
 to be remov(ed:	http://www.forever-mrt-now.net/gone.asp

 this process takes one week, so please be patient. we do our 
 best to take your email/s off but you have to fill out a rem/ove
 or else you will continue to recieve email/s.


From wieldy@doneasy.com  Sun Mar 27 08:32:18 2005
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From: "Constance Key" <wieldy@doneasy.com>
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To: ldapext@ietf.org
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

 http://www.forever-mrt-now.net/nowss.asp



 Best Regards,

 Young Strong
 
 to be remov(ed:	http://www.forever-mrt-now.net/gone.asp

 this process takes one week, so please be patient. we do our 
 best to take your email/s off but you have to fill out a rem/ove
 or else you will continue to recieve email/s.


From maryrae3g@iya.com  Mon Mar 28 05:11:38 2005
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Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 04:11:19 -0600
Message-Id: <85728546.85579@cristin>
From: allaryce bauer <maryrae3g@iya.com>
To: Ldapext <ldapext@ietf.org>
Subject: Name-brand software at low, low, low, low prices 
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Did you know you could purchase the most popular and needed software with <B>% 80-90</B> discount ?<BR>
Do<B> NOT</B> pay a fortune for your usual software needs.Check our site and compare the prices.<BR>
You will see that you save a lot if you purchase the software from us and this is completely legal.<BR>
Below there is a very little list that shows our oem software's prices comparison with original manufacturer.<BR>
<BR>
<TABLE BORDER="3" CELLSPACING="2" CELLPADDING="1">
<TR>
	<TD><B>Oem Software Name</B></TD>
	<TD><B>Our Price</B></TD>
	<TD><B>Manufacturer Price</B></TD>
	<TD><B>Your Save</B></TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>Microsoft Windows XP Professional with SP2 Full Version + Office 2003 Professional</TD>
	<TD><B>99 $</B></TD>
	<TD>430 $</TD>
	<TD>331 $</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>Microsoft Windows 2000 Professional</TD>
	<TD><B>59 $</B></TD>
	<TD>430 $</TD>
	<TD>371 $</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>MS Windows XP Pro + MS Office XP Pro</TD>
	<TD><B>89 $</B></TD>
	<TD>760 $</TD>
	<TD>671 $</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>Adobe Photoshop 7 + Adobe Premiere 7 + Adobe Illustrator 10</TD>
	<TD><B>129 $</B></TD>
	<TD>720 $</TD>
	<TD>591 $</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>Adobe Acrobat 6 Professional</TD>
	<TD><B>80 $</B></TD>
	<TD>569 $</TD>
	<TD>489 $</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>Corel Draw 11 Graphic Suite</TD>
	<TD><B>59 $</B></TD>
	<TD>437 $</TD>
	<TD>378 $</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>Corel WordPerfect Office 10</TD>
	<TD><B>69 $</B></TD>
	<TD>200 $</TD>
	<TD>131 $</TD>
</TR>
<TR>
	<TD>Macromedia Dreamweaver Mx 2004</TD>
	<TD><B>69 $</B></TD>
	<TD>390 $</TD>
	<TD>321 $</TD>
</TR>
</TABLE>
<BR>
The list you see above is just % 1 of our software list.You can find loads of cool software at <BR>
incredibly low prices.There are also Macintosh editions of our softwares.We guarantee that <BR> 
we are the cheapest oem software seller site on the net.Just click our link and check our prices. <BR>
<BR>
<A HREF="http://parentage.cheapoemz4u.info"><B><FONT FACE="Verdana"><B>The Cheapest Oem Software Store Here</B></FONT></B></A>


From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Mon Mar 28 15:36:46 2005
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From: "Moustafa Youssef" <moustafa@cs.umd.edu>
To: <lemonade@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 28 Mar 2005 15:33:27 -0500
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Subject: [lemonade] Deadline approaching: IEEE WirelessCom Symposium on
	Mobile Computing, 2005
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(Our apologies if you receive multiple copies of this CFP)
-------------------------------------------------------------
                    Call for Papers
              Symposium on Mobile Computing
  http://www.csee.umbc.edu/~younis/WC_MobCom05.htm
                       as part of 
                IEEE WirelessCom 2005
Sheraton Maui Resort, Kaanapali Beach, Maui, Hawaii, USA
           http://sa1.sice.umkc.edu/wc05/ 
                   June 13-16, 2005
  Technical Sponsorship: IEEE TCCC, TCPC, and SSCTC


Recent years have witnessed an enormous growth in the development and
applications of mobile computing environments and devices. Many
practitioners envision a future empowered with context and location aware
computation and communication infrastructure that allow users to access data
and receive service at any place and any time. Compared to conventional
platforms, the mobility of computing nodes introduces many challenges to the
design of almost all systems components. 

This symposium will foster a forum for discussing and presenting recent
research results on mobile computer systems. Original papers are invited in
the broader area of mobile computing. Papers must report high-quality and
previously unpublished work. Topics of interest include, but are not limited
to, the following:

* Architecture and infrastructure support	
* Middleware and operating systems services
* Development platforms and environments
* Adaptive resource management schemes
* Pervasive and Context-aware Computing
* Performance metrics and studies
* Power aware computation and communication
* Data consistency and synchronization protocols
* Fault-tolerant architectural and operation models
* Wearable computing devices and systems
* Time constrained mobile systems
* Robust ad-hoc networking techniques
* Efficient localization techniques
* Wireless sensor networks
* Mobile peer to peer systems
* Quality of service provisioning
* Context-conscious computing
* Web caching and services
* Emerging applications and systems
* Mobile agents
* Mobile commerce
* Security and privacy issues


Submission Guidelines
---------------------
Original papers are solicited and must represent high-quality and previously
unpublished work, not currently under review by another conference or
journal. Prospective authors should submit their paper electronically
through https://msrcmt.research.microsoft.com/WirelessCom2005. All papers
are limited to 6 pages in standard IEEE double-column format. 

Important Dates
---------------
Paper Submission Deadline: 	March 31, 2005 (extended)
Notification of Acceptance: 	April 22, 2005
Camera-Ready Papers: 	May 1, 2005

Symposium Co-Chairs
-------------------
Mohamed Younis
Department of Computer Science and Electrical Engineering University of
Maryland Baltimore County, 1000 Hilltop Circle, Baltimore, MD 21250
Voice: (410) 455-3968,    FAX: (410) 455-3968
E-mail: younis@csee.umbc.edu 

Hesham El-Rewini
Department of Computer Science and Engineering
Southern Methodist University
3145 Dyer Street, Dallas, TX 75205
Voice: (214) 768-3278,	FAX: (214) 768-3085
E-mail: rewini@engr.smu.edu


Publicity Chair
----------------
Moustafa Youssef
Department of Computer Science
University of Maryland at College Park,
College Park, MD 20742
Voice: (301) 405-0341,    FAX: (301) 405-6707
E-mail: moustafa@cs.umd.edu

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From bouknight@didamail.com  Wed Mar 30 05:36:10 2005
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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 07:28:48 -0300
From: "Ramon Conway" <bouknight@didamail.com>
To: <ldapext@ietf.org>
Subject: Approved mortage rate
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

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From lylem@doneasy.com  Wed Mar 30 05:38:17 2005
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To: ldapext@ietf.org
Cc: ldapext-admin@ietf.org, ldapext-archive@ietf.org,
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Subject: Become one of the low rates
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

 http://www.go-mrt-now.com/sign.asp



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 Lara Mead
 
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http://qmqibs5u9kq456pg5uko5.kmerodentcb.com/
Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation of denying himself a pleasure. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. But, in practice, there is. Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches. There are people in the world so hungry, that God cannot appear to them except in the form of bread. Why is it drug addicts and computer afficionados are both called users? Very little is needed to make a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. A man can't be too careful in the choice of his enemies. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die. Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation I have while working. Memory is a child walking along a seashore. You never can tell what small pebble it will pick up and store away among its treasured things. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. We all agree that your theory is crazy, but is it crazy enough? I can write better than anybody who can write faster, and I can write faster than anybody who can write better. When love is not madness, it is not love. I heard someone tried the monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying for the plays of W. Shakespeare, but all they got was the collected works of Francis Bacon. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned population by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants a
nd armies cannot stand. Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation I have while working. Not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted.A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank her. It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. Take away love and our earth is a tomb. If you haven't got anything nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me. Moral indignation is jealousy with a halo. It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are also stupid. Love is the beauty of the soul. Can miles truly separate you from friends... If you want to be with someone you love, aren't you already there? The nice thing about being a celebrity is that if you bore people they think it's their fault. Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scratch where it itches. The man who says I told you so is making an excuse for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. To love oneself is the beginning of a lifelong romance I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a ... brain operation. The artist is nothing without the gift, but the gift is nothing without work. Talent does what it can; genius does what it must. Hatch a dream and then believe it. What do you take me for, an idiot? Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from giving wordy evidence of the fact. Give me a woman who loves beer and I will conquer the world. No one can earn a million dollars honestly. Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. The great thing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. The mistakes are all waiting to be made.  The quality of the moment is more important than the number of our days. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. It is much more co
mfortable to be mad and know it, than to be sane and have one's doubts. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a friendship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many to properly take care of. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also gazes into you. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties for a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves. Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in beer. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. The problem with some people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. I would have made a good Pope. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid each other to persevere in the road to a happier life. Give me chastity and continence, but not yet. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. Love is the immortal flow of energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. When a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is anything you can do. Think up something appropriate and do it. Always listen to experts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time. The true measure of a man is how he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. Before I got married I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and no theories. A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor knows the open sea. A 
witty saying proves nothing. You can widen your life by yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it. Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand and melting like a snowflake. I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it. Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. Change is inevitable, except from vending machines. Each problem that I solved became a rule which served afterwards to solve other problems. We have art to save ourselves from the truth. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circumstances. All love shifts and changes. I don't know if you can be wholeheartedly in love all the time. It was the experience of mystery -- even if mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. No matter what looms ahead, if you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjoy it and bless God for it. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? The full use of your powers along lines of excellence. In any contest between power and patience, bet on patience. Sleep is an excellent way of listening to an opera. A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. The opposite of a correct statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may well be another profound truth. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in times of challenge and controversy. Books are the shoes with which we tread the footsteps of great minds. I begin by taking. I shall find scholar
s later to demonstrate my perfect right. The great thing about television is that if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you can always change the channel. Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. What the world really needs is more love and less paper work. 

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<FONT face=3DArial>Abstainer: a weak person who yields to the temptation o=
f denying himself a pleasure. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only =
a privilege but a necessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize w=
ith itself. In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.=
 But, in practice, there is. Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and scr=
atch where it itches. There are people in the world so hungry, that God ca=
nnot appear to them except in the form of bread. Why is it drug addicts an=
d computer afficionados are both called users? Very little is needed to ma=
ke a happy life. It is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. A man=
 can't be too careful in the choice of his enemies. Touch is the most fund=
amental sense. A baby experiences it, all over, before he is born and long=
 after he learns to use sight, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases=
 to need it. Keep your children short on pocket money - but long on hugs. =
Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewe=
r and die. Basically, I no longer work for anything but the sensation I ha=
ve while working. Memory is a child walking along a seashore. You never ca=
n tell what small pebble it will pick up and store away among its treasure=
d things. Solitude, if rightly used, becomes not only a privilege but a ne=
cessity. Only a superficial soul fears to fraternize with itself. Only two=
 things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure a=
bout the former. We all agree that your theory is crazy, but is it crazy e=
nough? I can write better than anybody who can write faster, and I can wri=
te faster than anybody who can write better. When love is not madness, it =
is not love. I heard someone tried the monkeys-on-typewriters bit trying f=
or the plays of W. Shakespeare, but all they got was the collected works o=
f Francis Bacon. No dictator, no invader, can hold an imprisoned populatio=
n by force of arms forever. There is no greater power in the universe than=
 the need for freedom. Against that power, governments and tyrants and arm=
ies cannot stand. Knowledge speaks, but wisdom listens. Basically, I no lo=
nger work for anything but the sensation I have while working. Not everyth=
ing that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be coun=
ted.A woman drove me to drink and I didn't even have the decency to thank =
her. It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded ou=
r humanity. Take away love and our earth is a tomb. If you haven't got any=
thing nice to say about anybody, come sit next to me. Moral indignation is=
 jealousy with a halo. It has become appallingly obvious that our technolo=
gy has exceeded our humanity. It is dangerous to be sincere unless you are=
 also stupid. Love is the beauty of the soul. Can miles truly separate you=
 from friends... If you want to be with someone you love, aren't you alrea=
dy there? The nice thing about being a celebrity is that if you bore peopl=
e they think it's their fault. Fill what's empty, empty what's full, and s=
cratch where it itches. The man who says I told you so is making an excuse=
 for not expressing his position clearly in the first place. To love onese=
lf is the beginning of a lifelong romance I'd rather have a bottle in fron=
t of me than a ... brain operation. The artist is nothing without the gift=
, but the gift is nothing without work. Talent does what it can; genius do=
es what it must. Hatch a dream and then believe it. What do you take me fo=
r, an idiot? Blessed is the man, who having nothing to say, abstains from =
giving wordy evidence of the fact. Give me a woman who loves beer and I wi=
ll conquer the world. No one can earn a million dollars honestly. Obstacle=
s are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal=
 The great thing about a computer notebook is that no matter how much you=
 stuff into it, it doesn't get bigger or heavier. The mistakes are all wai=
ting to be made.  The quality of the moment is more important than the num=
ber of our days. First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they =
fight you, then you win. It is much more comfortable to be mad and know it=
, than to be sane and have one's doubts. You can widen your life by yourse=
lf, but to deepen it you need a friend. Each encounter that becomes a frie=
ndship turns into a lifeline. One can never have too many, only too many t=
o properly take care of. When you gaze long into the abyss, the abyss also=
 gazes into you. Those who are willing to sacrifice essential liberties fo=
r a little order, will lose both and deserve neither. I don't know why we =
are here, but I'm pretty sure that it is not in order to enjoy ourselves. =
Not all chemicals are bad. Without chemicals such as hydrogen and oxygen, =
for example, there would be no way to make water, a vital ingredient in be=
er. I shall not waste my days in trying to prolong them. Obstacles are tho=
se frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goal. What th=
e world really needs is more love and less paper work. The problem with so=
me people is that when they aren't drunk, they're sober. I would have made=
 a good Pope. Friends are as companions on a journey, who ought to aid eac=
h other to persevere in the road to a happier life. Give me chastity and c=
ontinence, but not yet. Touch is the most fundamental sense. A baby experi=
ences it, all over, before he is born and long after he learns to use sigh=
t, hearing, or taste, and no human ever ceases to need it. Keep your child=
ren short on pocket money - but long on hugs. Love is the immortal flow of=
 energy that nourishes, extends and preserves. Its eternal goal is life. W=
hen a friend is in trouble, don't annoy him by asking if there is anything=
 you can do. Think up something appropriate and do it. Always listen to ex=
perts. They'll tell you what can't be done, and why. Then do it. We didn't=
 lose the game; we just ran out of time. The true measure of a man is how =
he treats someone who can do him absolutely no good. Before I got married =
I had six theories about bringing up children; now I have six children and=
 no theories. A woman knows the face of the man she loves as a sailor know=
s the open sea. A witty saying proves nothing. You can widen your life by =
yourself, but to deepen it you need a friend. I've had a wonderful time, b=
ut this wasn't it. Begin doing what you want to do now. We are not living =
in eternity. We have only this moment, sparkling like a star in our hand a=
nd melting like a snowflake. I've had a wonderful time, but this wasn't it=
 Education is a progressive discovery of our own ignorance. Change is ine=
vitable, except from vending machines. Each problem that I solved became a=
 rule which served afterwards to solve other problems. We have art to save=
 ourselves from the truth. Nothing splendid has ever been achieved except =
by those who dared believe that something inside them was superior to circ=
umstances. All love shifts and changes. I don't know if you can be wholehe=
artedly in love all the time. It was the experience of mystery -- even if =
mixed with fear -- that engendered religion. No matter what looms ahead, i=
f you can eat today, enjoy today, mix good cheer with friends today enjoy =
it and bless God for it. 24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidenc=
e? The full use of your powers along lines of excellence. In any contest b=
etween power and patience, bet on patience. Sleep is an excellent way of l=
istening to an opera. A human being should be able to change a diaper, pla=
n an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a shp, design a building, write a sonne=
t, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take ord=
ers, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new pro=
blem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficient=
ly, die gallantly. Specialization is for insects. The opposite of a correc=
t statement is a false statement. The opposite of a profound truth may wel=
l be another profound truth. The ultimate measure of a man is not where he=
 stands in moments of comfort and convenience, but where he stands in time=
s of challenge and controversy. Books are the shoes with which we tread th=
e footsteps of great minds. I begin by taking. I shall find scholars later=
 to demonstrate my perfect right. The great thing about television is that=
 if something important happens anywhere in the world, day or night, you c=
an always change the channel. Good people do not need laws to tell them to=
 act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around the laws. What t=
he world really needs is more love and less paper work.=20</FONT>
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From loretta@mailAccount.com  Thu Mar 31 01:39:20 2005
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Subject: High rates? Not with us! low fixed rate
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

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 Best Regards,

 Eric Castle
 
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From mckevitt@fadmail.com  Thu Mar 31 02:00:59 2005
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From: "Pam Valenzuela" <mckevitt@fadmail.com>
To: ldapext@ietf.org
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        ldapext-web-archive@ietf.org, lemonade@ietf.org,
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

 Ba(d credit? Doesn't matter, low rates are fixed no matter what!

 
 To get a free, no obli,gation consultation click below:

 http://www.now-and-forever.net/sign.asp



 Best Regards,

 Dino Mckinley
 
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From lemonade-bounces@ietf.org  Thu Mar 31 05:12:45 2005
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Date: Wed, 30 Mar 2005 22:21:22 +0100
From: Alexey Melnikov <alexey.melnikov@isode.com>
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Subject: Re: [lemonade] comments on draft-ietf-lemonade-futuredelivery-01
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Philip Guenther wrote:

>[...]
>Section 4.1.1, item 1 seems redundant; if you want to use the
>extension, you have to use the extension.  Or maybe this is a
>statement that a client that uses some other mechanism to access
>this capability in the MSA is not compliant with _this_ spec?  That
>would make this statement a ban on other classes of extensions,
>which seems out of scope or inappropriate for an RFC.  Would this
>make a client that supports a prestandardization version of this
>extension non-compliant?  Item 3 also seems unnecessary; if the
>server isn't advertising this extension, than use of the 'AFTER'
>parameter is not bound by this extension but rather the base doc,
>RFC 2821.  Indeed, I can find no other SMTP extension that states
>such a requirement on clients.
>  
>
I suggest something like the following text to address the issues raised 
by Philip:

      An SMTP client wishing to use Future Delivery MUST check that the
      MSA advertises the FUTUREDELIVERY keyword in a reply to the EHLO
      command. The client signals that it requires Future Delivery by 
including a
      future-delivery-interval-param with the MAIL command, the value of the
      future-delivery-interval-param MUST be less or equal to the value 
of the
      max-future-delivery-interval  advertised with the FUTUREDELIVERY
      keyword in the MSA's reply to the EHLO command.

>Section 4.1.2, item 2 seem redundant as well: isn't it implicit in
>the fact that this extension is via the extension mechanism in 2821?
>If an MSA doesn't support the 2821 extension mechs, then it isn't
>non-compliant to support Future Delivery, it's *impossible*!
>  
>
I agree.
[...]

Additional comments:

 >4.3.2 MSA interaction with DELIVERBY
 >
 >   1) If an MSA supports Future Delivery and Deliver By, and receives
 >      a MAIL command containing a future-delivery-interval-param    
 >      whose value is greater than or equal to the value of the by-time
 >      parameter, the MSA MUST reject that MAIL command.

I suggest that an appropriate enhanced status code is mentioned here.

 >4.4.1 SMTP client interaction with MDN
 >
 >   1) An SMTP client MUST NOT request Future Delivery when sending an
 >      MDN to the MSA.

Is there any justification for this requirement?

Alexey



_______________________________________________
lemonade mailing list
lemonade@ietf.org
https://www1.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lemonade


From yuasa@doramail.com  Thu Mar 31 11:34:55 2005
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From: "Judith Tatum" <yuasa@doramail.com>
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Cc: ldapext-admin@ietf.org, ldapext-archive@ietf.org,
        ldapext-web-archive@ietf.org, lemonade@ietf.org,
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Subject: High rates? Not with us! low fixed rate
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Hello,

 We tried contacting you awhile ago about your low interest morta(ge rate.

 You have qualified for the lowest rate in years...

 You could get over $380,000 for as little as $500 a month!

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