From nobody Wed Jun 12 01:58:47 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CFB16120113 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:58:44 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -2.011 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.011 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, DKIM_SIGNED=0.1, DKIM_VALID=-0.1, DKIM_VALID_AU=-0.1, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE=-0.0001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, T_DKIMWL_WL_HIGH=-0.01] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Authentication-Results: ietfa.amsl.com (amavisd-new); dkim=pass (1024-bit key) header.d=ericsson.com Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 4Tvk1jzSaR8y for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 01:58:42 -0700 (PDT) Received: from EUR03-AM5-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-eopbgr30043.outbound.protection.outlook.com [40.107.3.43]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 942FB1200C5 for ; 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DIR:OUT; SFP:1101; SCL:1; SRVR:HE1PR0701MB2539; H:HE1PR0701MB2522.eurprd07.prod.outlook.com; FPR:; SPF:None; LANG:en; PTR:InfoNoRecords; MX:1; A:1; received-spf: None (protection.outlook.com: ericsson.com does not designate permitted sender hosts) x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: T5LOLvGyNNq4CIFxYXZ+/Mz4mYB2Wunx9FNQusw+tWo7bnBed8vAfK9c+LNauQF7VzjW7N6dnChdUN+l0ikemotgswT/S/iwntba8YNMkhQ43SAl0E68xG7AuIuMMBjHUyJqs67xVPZhbRnq58sFkyXPCuqGjU/uf3er0hwHDQacd/kzU0DrkYFj92oPOnKSzBmw0V9NGAeJNOIOwbloGdfy0sLSRhsJk0CQ5beGvVq5nrqJaZkcnyFfgIC8yW0hrO/ZQxjSIDaapmIvg5KSdVlYKEF+CiTQzsZJISpjNZ1jyfjsLSdagiHrmXOm1qQXjzxBVW8+UKrvnowo/SjOW/2tvzqVL3/0qj3Ic6rDaX3dufoFcn+gXviSqeg44ZJzitIYNEambsoGmDu237GjHkpOBnErY6NzgM1d6wN07X4= Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: 491a45d4-a22a-4a6e-025f-08d6ef142530 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 12 Jun 2019 08:58:32.0540 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 92e84ceb-fbfd-47ab-be52-080c6b87953f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: HE1PR0701MB2539 Archived-At: Subject: [LOOPS] Loops BOF approved X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 08:58:45 -0000 Hi,=0A= =0A= We have approved a non-wg forming BOF for Loops. The reason for Non-WG=0A= forming is that we ADs first like to determine the interest in the=0A= problem space and the proposed technical direction to solve the problem.=0A= As this problem space falls across both transport and internet area we=0A= feel it is important that Loops gets known in these communities.=0A= =0A= As there are some question marks around how to best organize the work=0A= and the relation to existing WGs for example in INT area working on=0A= tunnels, we can avoid that distraction at the BOF with the exact details=0A= of the charter and focus on the bigger picture. If the BOF is showing=0A= sufficient interest in the problem, a WG charter and potential charter=0A= updates for existing WGs can be discussed in between the meetings. A=0A= second BOF would in that case only be needed if there is a perceived=0A= need to discuss the charter details in a face to face meeting.=0A= =0A= The ADs are working on appointing BOF chairs.=0A= =0A= I hope to see more activity on this mailing list leading up to the meeting.= =0A= =0A= Cheers=0A= =0A= Magnus Westerlund =0A= Transport AD=0A= =0A= =0A= ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= Network Architecture & Protocols, Ericsson Research=0A= ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= Ericsson AB | Phone +46 10 7148287=0A= Torshamnsgatan 23 | Mobile +46 73 0949079=0A= SE-164 80 Stockholm, Sweden | mailto: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com=0A= ----------------------------------------------------------------------=0A= =0A= From nobody Wed Jun 12 02:09:23 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0FDF11200BA for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:09:22 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Zl2z_r6Rn0FK for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 22830120077 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:09:20 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45P1Js6hyFzyh4; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:09:17 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:09:19 +0200 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582023355.475948-4c16e650ee0dd5fefdf89b36b0e7b623 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <577583BB-0044-4400-94EE-144913CF6A90@tzi.org> References: To: "loops@ietf.org" X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Loops BOF approved X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:09:22 -0000 On Jun 12, 2019, at 10:58, Magnus Westerlund = wrote: >=20 > I hope to see more activity on this mailing list leading up to the = meeting. Thank you, Magnus. Given that we have a solution proposal, https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info I think a good next step would be to have some discussion about its = general technical direction, as well as a number of specific issues that = have already been raised off-line. I=E2=80=99ll send a (paced) sequence of messages asking specific = questions about the solution draft to the list. Please reply within = those threads, so we can maintain some structure. If you have even more general observations/questions about the next = steps for this activity, the present thread is probably the best to = reply to. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jun 12 02:18:09 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 321C212011D for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:18:08 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id muzR8-aqwUow for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id B905A120119 for ; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 02:18:06 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45P1W03k8tzySG; Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:18:04 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582023884.371924-b655e8ed9d71376e36f38d043f5a0290 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 11:18:05 +0200 Message-Id: To: loops@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [LOOPS] draft-welzl-loops-gen-info: general direction X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2019 09:18:08 -0000 Is the general direction taken by https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info the one that should be pursued in the LOOPS activity? Specifically: =E2=80=94 protocol is run between an ingress and an egress, apart from = some form of controller for setup purposes no other nodes are involved. =E2=80=94 two modes for recover: retransmission mode, FEC mode =E2=80=94 protocol operates on sparse forward information (for = retransmission mode, pretty much a sequence number and an ACK request) = and reverse information that can be piggybacked on a reverse tunnel or = sent in separate messages =E2=80=94 no =E2=80=9Cconnection setup=E2=80=9D between ingress and = egress nodes =E2=80=94 the protocol defines a generic information model; specific = encodings are defined for specific encapsulation protocols such as GUE = or Geneve (The draft actually offers two slightly different approaches, one in the = main body, one somewhat more innovative approach in Appendix B. If you = think that Appendix B could be used in a kind of deployment that you are = interested in, we would like to hear from you.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Thu Jun 13 22:59:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietf.org Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 1217E120421; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:46:04 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: IETF Meeting Session Request Tool To: Cc: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, lflynn@amsl.com, loops-chairs@ietf.org, loops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.97.0 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156044076406.12459.6827648732879670209.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 08:46:04 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 22:59:04 -0700 Subject: [LOOPS] loops - New Meeting Session Request for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2019 15:46:10 -0000 A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Liz Flynn, on behalf of the loops working group. --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Local Optimizations on Path Segments Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Liz Flynn Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 150 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: SPRING, NVO3, PANRG, INTAREA, TSVWG, IPPM, MPTCP, QUIC, RMCAT, TAPS, TCPM, TRAM, ALTO, DTN, NFSV4 People who must be present: Magnus Westerlund Resources Requested: Special Requests: --------------------------------------------------------- From nobody Thu Jun 13 23:26:03 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 148FA120410 for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 23:25:57 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id p-xdhhZtI-pD for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 23:25:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out01.uio.no (mail-out01.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 745F412013D for ; Thu, 13 Jun 2019 23:25:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-mx11.uio.no ([129.240.10.83]) by mail-out01.uio.no with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hbfeo-0002y4-Cr for loops@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:25:50 +0200 Received: from boomerang.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.135]) by mail-mx11.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hbfen-0008t8-RM for loops@ietf.org; Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:25:50 +0200 From: Michael Welzl Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 08:25:49 +0200 References: To: loops@ietf.org In-Reply-To: Message-Id: X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx11.uio.no: 129.240.68.135 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=129.240.68.135; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=boomerang.ifi.uio.no; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: E0149BAC110B2E3D5CCE3AC8D4CA32ED6850EDAC Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] draft-welzl-loops-gen-info: general direction X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 14 Jun 2019 06:26:01 -0000 Hi everyone, > On 12 Jun 2019, at 11:18, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > Is the general direction taken by >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info >=20 > the one that should be pursued in the LOOPS activity? >=20 > Specifically: > =E2=80=94 protocol is run between an ingress and an egress, apart from = some form of controller for setup purposes no other nodes are involved. > =E2=80=94 two modes for recover: retransmission mode, FEC mode > =E2=80=94 protocol operates on sparse forward information (for = retransmission mode, pretty much a sequence number and an ACK request) = and reverse information that can be piggybacked on a reverse tunnel or = sent in separate messages > =E2=80=94 no =E2=80=9Cconnection setup=E2=80=9D between ingress and = egress nodes > =E2=80=94 the protocol defines a generic information model; specific = encodings are defined for specific encapsulation protocols such as GUE = or Geneve >=20 > (The draft actually offers two slightly different approaches, one in = the main body, one somewhat more innovative approach in Appendix B. If = you think that Appendix B could be used in a kind of deployment that you = are interested in, we would like to hear from you.) +1 on that, I'd love it if we could hear comments on this new mode. Personally I prefer the approach in appendix B as it minimizes = potentially negative side-effects (at least when using retransmissions = instead of FEC): no header overhead, no delays, ... there's only the = overhead of ACK packets sent back and the local memory + processing = overhead at the LOOPS ingress and egress. Cheers, Michael From nobody Sun Jun 16 20:55:53 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id A76DE1200DB for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:55:51 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.201 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.201 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id mj030MyANm6T for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 0BD6312003F for ; Sun, 16 Jun 2019 20:55:49 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id C1CAA5C31E2E70A535D7 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 04:55:46 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.102) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 04:55:46 +0100 Received: from dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.104) by dggeme706-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.102) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:55:43 +0800 Received: from dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.69]) by dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.69]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 11:55:44 +0800 From: "Zhouxingwang (Joe)" To: "loops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [LOOPS] draft-welzl-loops-gen-info: general direction Thread-Index: AdUku2sVQG/Wp3UJR5aCILBBxKZ0tw== Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 03:55:44 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.27.230] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] draft-welzl-loops-gen-info: general direction X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 03:55:52 -0000 SGksDQoNCuKAlCB0d28gbW9kZXMgZm9yIHJlY292ZXI6IHJldHJhbnNtaXNzaW9uIG1vZGUsIEZF QyBtb2RlDQoNCkZvciB0aGlzIGl0ZW0sIHRoZSBBQ0svTkFDSyBwYWNrZXRzIGluIHJldHJhbnNt aXNzaW9uIG1vZGUgbWFpbmx5IGhhcyB0d28gZnVuY3Rpb25zLCBvbmUgaXMgZm9yIGxvc3MgZGV0 ZWN0aW9uIGFuZCBhbm90aGVyIGlzIGZvciBsb2NhbCBtZWFzdXJlbWVudChsb2NhbCBSVFQsIGxv c3MgcmF0ZSwgdGhyb3VnaHB1dC4uLikgd2hpY2ggaXMgaW1wb3J0YW50IGZvciBMT09QUyB0byBp bnRlcmFjdCB3aXRoIEVuZC10by1FbmQgY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBjb250cm9sLg0KU28gYSBUQ1AtbGlr ZSBkZWxheWVkIEFDSyBtZWNoYW5pc20gaXMgc3VpdGFibGUgKE5BQ0sgZG9lcyBub3QgYXBwbHkg dGhpcywgaXQgd2lsbCBiZSBzZW50IG91dCBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBvbmNlIHBhY2tldCBsb3NzKSwg YnV0IHVubGlrZSBUQ1AgTE9PUFMgZG9lcyBub3QgcmVxdWlyZSBjcml0aWNhbCBBQ0sgY2xvY2tp bmcgZm9yIGl0cyBzbGlkaW5nIHdpbmRvdywgc28gTE9PUFMgY291bGQgdXNlIGEgKmxvbmdlciog ZGVsYXllZCBBQ0sgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGJ5IG1pbWlja2luZyBUQ1AuDQpGb3IgdGhlIG92ZXJoZWFk IG9mIEFDSyAocGFja2V0cyBhbmQgcHJvY2Vzc2luZyksIGlmIHRoZXJlIGlzIGJpZGlyZWN0aW9u YWwgdHJhZmZpYyBiZXR3ZWVuIExPT1BTIGluZ3Jlc3MgYW5kIGVncmVzcywgdGhlbiBwYWNrZXRz IG92ZXJoZWFkIGlzIGxpbWl0ZWQ7IGZvciBwcm9jZXNzaW5nIG92ZXJoZWFkLCBpdCBtYXkgbmVl ZCBtb3JlIENQVSByZXNvdXJjZS4NCg0KVGhhbmtzDQpKb2UNCg0KLS0tLS1PcmlnaW5hbCBNZXNz YWdlLS0tLS0NCkZyb206IExPT1BTIFttYWlsdG86bG9vcHMtYm91bmNlc0BpZXRmLm9yZ10gT24g QmVoYWxmIE9mIENhcnN0ZW4gQm9ybWFubg0KU2VudDogV2VkbmVzZGF5LCBKdW5lIDEyLCAyMDE5 IDU6MTggUE0NClRvOiBsb29wc0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KU3ViamVjdDogW0xPT1BTXSBkcmFmdC13ZWx6 bC1sb29wcy1nZW4taW5mbzogZ2VuZXJhbCBkaXJlY3Rpb24NCg0KSXMgdGhlIGdlbmVyYWwgZGly ZWN0aW9uIHRha2VuIGJ5DQoNCmh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC13ZWx6 bC1sb29wcy1nZW4taW5mbw0KDQp0aGUgb25lIHRoYXQgc2hvdWxkIGJlIHB1cnN1ZWQgaW4gdGhl IExPT1BTIGFjdGl2aXR5Pw0KDQpTcGVjaWZpY2FsbHk6DQrigJQgcHJvdG9jb2wgaXMgcnVuIGJl dHdlZW4gYW4gaW5ncmVzcyBhbmQgYW4gZWdyZXNzLCBhcGFydCBmcm9tIHNvbWUgZm9ybSBvZiBj b250cm9sbGVyIGZvciBzZXR1cCBwdXJwb3NlcyBubyBvdGhlciBub2RlcyBhcmUgaW52b2x2ZWQu DQrigJQgdHdvIG1vZGVzIGZvciByZWNvdmVyOiByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBtb2RlLCBGRUMgbW9k ZSDigJQgcHJvdG9jb2wgb3BlcmF0ZXMgb24gc3BhcnNlIGZvcndhcmQgaW5mb3JtYXRpb24gKGZv ciByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBtb2RlLCBwcmV0dHkgbXVjaCBhIHNlcXVlbmNlIG51bWJlciBhbmQg YW4gQUNLIHJlcXVlc3QpIGFuZCByZXZlcnNlIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIHRoYXQgY2FuIGJlIHBpZ2d5 YmFja2VkIG9uIGEgcmV2ZXJzZSB0dW5uZWwgb3Igc2VudCBpbiBzZXBhcmF0ZSBtZXNzYWdlcyDi gJQgbm8g4oCcY29ubmVjdGlvbiBzZXR1cOKAnSBiZXR3ZWVuIGluZ3Jlc3MgYW5kIGVncmVzcyBu b2RlcyDigJQgdGhlIHByb3RvY29sIGRlZmluZXMgYSBnZW5lcmljIGluZm9ybWF0aW9uIG1vZGVs OyBzcGVjaWZpYyBlbmNvZGluZ3MgYXJlIGRlZmluZWQgZm9yIHNwZWNpZmljIGVuY2Fwc3VsYXRp b24gcHJvdG9jb2xzIHN1Y2ggYXMgR1VFIG9yIEdlbmV2ZQ0KDQooVGhlIGRyYWZ0IGFjdHVhbGx5 IG9mZmVycyB0d28gc2xpZ2h0bHkgZGlmZmVyZW50IGFwcHJvYWNoZXMsIG9uZSBpbiB0aGUgbWFp biBib2R5LCBvbmUgc29tZXdoYXQgbW9yZSBpbm5vdmF0aXZlIGFwcHJvYWNoIGluIEFwcGVuZGl4 IEIuICBJZiB5b3UgdGhpbmsgdGhhdCBBcHBlbmRpeCBCIGNvdWxkIGJlIHVzZWQgaW4gYSBraW5k IG9mIGRlcGxveW1lbnQgdGhhdCB5b3UgYXJlIGludGVyZXN0ZWQgaW4sIHdlIHdvdWxkIGxpa2Ug dG8gaGVhciBmcm9tIHlvdS4pDQoNCkdyw7zDn2UsIENhcnN0ZW4NCg0KLS0NCkxPT1BTIG1haWxp bmcgbGlzdA0KTE9PUFNAaWV0Zi5vcmcNCmh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlz dGluZm8vbG9vcHMNCg== From nobody Mon Jun 17 15:42:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 801E61202F1 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 15:42:21 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.198 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.198 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id cQPIjCBY8fx0 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 15:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 087AA1202D8 for ; Mon, 17 Jun 2019 15:42:19 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.113] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45SR6c4897zytB; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 00:42:16 +0200 (CEST) From: Carsten Bormann Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 582504134.6774009-5056aea306dc323b565e9b72f9f0d676 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 00:42:15 +0200 Message-Id: To: loops@ietf.org X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 17 Jun 2019 22:42:22 -0000 The proposal in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info measures forward latency by having the egress node send back some = acknowledgements that carry a timestamp of arrival (expressed in egress = node local clock time). No timing information is conveyed in the = forward direction. This assumes that the local clock of the egress node is useful for = relaying timing information to the ingress node. In many cases in = today=E2=80=99s networks, nodes are synchronized using NTP (or maybe = even PTP), so the clocks should not be diverging wildly. Also, the = assumption is that today=E2=80=99s nodes can keep their clock drift in = check well enough that the latency measurements are not useless. However, there is some systematic error being introduced if the nodes = are not perfectly in sync. This error should be an essentially constant = addend (positive or negative) to the measured latency (maybe even = leading to mostly negative =E2=80=9Clatency=E2=80=9D measurements, which = may seem illogical but may not invalidate the congestion detection = math). If the latency measurement is mostly used to detect upticks in latency = that might be indicative of congestion, all this should not be a big = problem. Alternative approaches might: =E2=80=94 need to send more information (essentially running a = per-tunnel time synchronization protocol, which is wasteful) =E2=80=94 complicate the processing. Note that the ingress node has under control how many ACKs with a time = stamp it receives, by controlling the rate of setting the =E2=80=9CACK = desired=E2=80=9D flag; an ingress node that does not care about latency = might never set that flag (and rely on cumulative =E2=80=9Cbitmap=E2=80=9D= style acknowledgements, called =E2=80=9Cblock 2=E2=80=9D in section = 4.3). So are we happy with the latency measurement approach described in the = proposal? Note that an ingress node can independently estimate RTT by noting when = packets have been sent (in ingress node clock time) and noting the = arrival time of an acknowledgement for that packet (if the PSN is = different per transmission there is no ambiguity). The overhead for = storing the transmission point in time nearly vanishes behind the = storage of the packet itself (which is needed at least in retransmission = mode). This independent RTT measurement is necessary because the path = for the reverse information may be rather different from the forward = path and also because delayed acknowledgement schemes add to the RTT. Does the proposed design look right? Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Tue Jun 18 05:39:50 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5D21312010D for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id vLWZPFDtoWWa for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 6763B1200EA for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:39:45 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 7E41921E3725AB8393B5; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:39:42 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.47]) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.34]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:39:40 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Carsten Bormann , "loops@ietf.org" CC: Cociglio Mauro , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Thread-Topic: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency Thread-Index: AQHVJV35lIvtQhu2ckClUnIb0DJ98aahUGqw Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:39:39 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.204.62.190] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:39:49 -0000 RGVhciBDYXJzdGVuLCBBbGwsDQpJIHRoaW5rIGl0IHdvdWxkIGJlIHZlcnkgdXNlZnVsIHRvIGRv IGEgY2xhc3NpZmljYXRpb24gb2YgdGhlIHBvc3NpYmxlIG1lYXN1cmVtZW50IG1ldGhvZHMgZm9y IExPT1BTLg0KQW5kLCB0aGVyZSBhcmUgUHJvcyBhbmQgQ29ucyB0byBiZSBjb25zaWRlcmVkIGZv ciBlYWNoIG1ldGhvZG9sb2dpZXMuDQpJbiBhZGRpdGlvbiB0byB0aGUgbWV0aG9kb2xvZ2llcyBh bHJlYWR5IG9uIHRoZSB0YWJsZSAoVENQLWxpa2UgbWVjaGFuaXNtcywgb25lLXdheSBmb3J3YXJk IGxhdGVuY3kgbWVjaGFuaXNtIGFuZCBzbyBvbi4uLikgSSB3b3VsZCBzdWdnZXN0IHRvIGNvbnNp ZGVyIGFsc28gdGhlIHNvIGNhbGxlZCBzcGluIGJpdCBhcHByb2FjaCBhcyBkZXNjcmliZWQgaW4g dGhlIGZvbGxvd2luZyBkcmFmdHM6IGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFmdC10 cmFtbWVsbC1pcHBtLXNwaW4tMDAgYW5kIGh0dHBzOi8vdG9vbHMuaWV0Zi5vcmcvaHRtbC9kcmFm dC1jZmItaXBwbS1zcGluYml0LW5ldy1tZWFzdXJlbWVudHMtMDAuDQpUaGUgbWFpbiBkaWZmZXJl 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w59lLCBDYXJzdGVuDQoNCi0tDQpMT09QUyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCkxPT1BTQGlldGYub3JnDQpo dHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3RpbmZvL2xvb3BzDQo= From nobody Tue Jun 18 05:53:05 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id C3EC1120047 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:53:02 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id xo1IgxrEpz3l for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:52:59 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out01.uio.no (mail-out01.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D23A51200FD for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 05:52:58 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-mx12.uio.no ([129.240.10.84]) by mail-out01.uio.no with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hdDbS-0003q2-B5; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:52:46 +0200 Received: from boomerang.ifi.uio.no ([129.240.68.135]) by mail-mx12.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hdDbR-0005tO-E7; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:52:46 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:52:41 +0200 Cc: Carsten Bormann , "loops@ietf.org" , Cociglio Mauro , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> References: To: Giuseppe Fioccola X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx12.uio.no: 129.240.68.135 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=129.240.68.135; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=boomerang.ifi.uio.no; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 2479DBB2EF0F81B8D1CEAF5CF021E7A9DDF1B4B6 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 12:53:03 -0000 Hi, I thought the spin bit is meant for a router somewhere along the path to = understand the end-to-end RTT of a flow. We, on the other hand, need a LOOPS ingress node to understand the RTT = (or, better, OWD) to the LOOPS egress node. So this is = (LOOPS-)end-to-(LOOPS)-end. Cheers, Michael > On 18 Jun 2019, at 14:39, Giuseppe Fioccola = wrote: >=20 > Dear Carsten, All, > I think it would be very useful to do a classification of the possible = measurement methods for LOOPS. > And, there are Pros and Cons to be considered for each methodologies. > In addition to the methodologies already on the table (TCP-like = mechanisms, one-way forward latency mechanism and so on...) I would = suggest to consider also the so called spin bit approach as described in = the following drafts: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-trammell-ippm-spin-00 and = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-cfb-ippm-spinbit-new-measurements-00. > The main difference is that the spin bit is a resource conserving = mechanism since there is no timestamp processing and no timestamp on the = wire, the RTT is given by the duration of the spin period. But it can = only do measurements once for every RTT. > What do you think? >=20 > Best Regards, >=20 > Giuseppe >=20 >=20 > -----Original Message----- > From: LOOPS [mailto:loops-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Carsten = Bormann > Sent: Tuesday, June 18, 2019 12:42 AM > To: loops@ietf.org > Subject: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency >=20 > The proposal in >=20 > https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info >=20 > measures forward latency by having the egress node send back some = acknowledgements that carry a timestamp of arrival (expressed in egress = node local clock time). No timing information is conveyed in the = forward direction. >=20 > This assumes that the local clock of the egress node is useful for = relaying timing information to the ingress node. In many cases in = today=E2=80=99s networks, nodes are synchronized using NTP (or maybe = even PTP), so the clocks should not be diverging wildly. Also, the = assumption is that today=E2=80=99s nodes can keep their clock drift in = check well enough that the latency measurements are not useless. >=20 > However, there is some systematic error being introduced if the nodes = are not perfectly in sync. This error should be an essentially constant = addend (positive or negative) to the measured latency (maybe even = leading to mostly negative =E2=80=9Clatency=E2=80=9D measurements, which = may seem illogical but may not invalidate the congestion detection = math). >=20 > If the latency measurement is mostly used to detect upticks in latency = that might be indicative of congestion, all this should not be a big = problem. >=20 > Alternative approaches might: >=20 > =E2=80=94 need to send more information (essentially running a = per-tunnel time synchronization protocol, which is wasteful) =E2=80=94 = complicate the processing. >=20 > Note that the ingress node has under control how many ACKs with a time = stamp it receives, by controlling the rate of setting the =E2=80=9CACK = desired=E2=80=9D flag; an ingress node that does not care about latency = might never set that flag (and rely on cumulative =E2=80=9Cbitmap=E2=80=9D= style acknowledgements, called =E2=80=9Cblock 2=E2=80=9D in section = 4.3). >=20 > So are we happy with the latency measurement approach described in the = proposal? >=20 > Note that an ingress node can independently estimate RTT by noting = when packets have been sent (in ingress node clock time) and noting the = arrival time of an acknowledgement for that packet (if the PSN is = different per transmission there is no ambiguity). The overhead for = storing the transmission point in time nearly vanishes behind the = storage of the packet itself (which is needed at least in retransmission = mode). This independent RTT measurement is necessary because the path = for the reverse information may be rather different from the forward = path and also because delayed acknowledgement schemes add to the RTT. >=20 > Does the proposed design look right? >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 > -- > LOOPS mailing list > LOOPS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/loops > --=20 > LOOPS mailing list > LOOPS@ietf.org > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/loops From nobody Tue Jun 18 06:19:08 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E632E120088 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:19:06 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MJD5jQIj7d7t for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 71D7B120047 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:19:04 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 3939543F110822CE0FEA; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:19:02 +0100 (IST) Received: from DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.3.20.209) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:18:39 +0100 Received: from DGGEMM526-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.8.116]) by DGGEMM401-HUB.china.huawei.com ([10.3.20.209]) with mapi id 14.03.0439.000; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 21:15:00 +0800 From: "Roni Even (A)" To: Michael Welzl , Giuseppe Fioccola CC: Cociglio Mauro , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" , Carsten Bormann , "loops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency Thread-Index: AQHVJV35lIvtQhu2ckClUnIb0DJ98aahUGqw//+IK4CAAIvFgA== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:14:59 +0000 Message-ID: <6E58094ECC8D8344914996DAD28F1CCD18D3855D@dggemm526-mbx.china.huawei.com> References: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.200.202.60] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:19:07 -0000 SGksDQpUaGUgc3BpbiBtZWFzdXJlbWVudCBkZXBlbmRzIG9uIHRoZSBudW1iZXIgb2YgbWVhc3Vy ZW1lbnQgcG9pbnRzLiBVc2luZyBvbmUgcG9pbnQgeW91IGNhbiBjYWxjdWxhdGUgdGhlIGVuZCB0 byBlbmQgUlRUIGJ1dCBieSB1c2luZyB0d28gbWVhc3VyZW1lbnQgcG9pbnRzIHlvdSBjYW4gY2Fs Y3VsYXRlIHRoZSB0aW1lIGJldHdlZW4gdGhlbQ0KUm9uaQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFsIE1lc3Nh Z2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogTE9PUFMgW21haWx0bzpsb29wcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3JnXSBPbiBC ZWhhbGYgT2YgTWljaGFlbCBXZWx6bA0KU2VudDogVHVlc2RheSwgSnVuZSAxOCwgMjAxOSAzOjUz IFBNDQpUbzogR2l1c2VwcGUgRmlvY2NvbGENCkNjOiBDb2NpZ2xpbyBNYXVybzsgQnJpYW4gVHJh bW1lbGwgKElFVEYpOyBDYXJzdGVuIEJvcm1hbm47IGxvb3BzQGlldGYub3JnDQpTdWJqZWN0OiBS ZTogW0xPT1BTXSBNZWFzdXJpbmcgZm9yd2FyZCBsYXRlbmN5DQoNCkhpLA0KDQpJIHRob3VnaHQg dGhlIHNwaW4gYml0IGlzIG1lYW50IGZvciBhIHJvdXRlciBzb21ld2hlcmUgYWxvbmcgdGhlIHBh dGggdG8gdW5kZXJzdGFuZCB0aGUgZW5kLXRvLWVuZCBSVFQgb2YgYSBmbG93Lg0KV2UsIG9uIHRo ZSBvdGhlciBoYW5kLCBuZWVkIGEgTE9PUFMgaW5ncmVzcyBub2RlIHRvIHVuZGVyc3RhbmQgdGhl 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IGFsc28gYmVjYXVzZSBkZWxheWVkIGFja25vd2xlZGdlbWVudCBzY2hlbWVzIGFkZCB0byB0aGUg UlRULg0KPiANCj4gRG9lcyB0aGUgcHJvcG9zZWQgZGVzaWduIGxvb2sgcmlnaHQ/DQo+IA0KPiBH csO8w59lLCBDYXJzdGVuDQo+IA0KPiAtLQ0KPiBMT09QUyBtYWlsaW5nIGxpc3QNCj4gTE9PUFNA aWV0Zi5vcmcNCj4gaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5vcmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sb29wcw0K PiAtLSANCj4gTE9PUFMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQo+IExPT1BTQGlldGYub3JnDQo+IGh0dHBzOi8v d3d3LmlldGYub3JnL21haWxtYW4vbGlzdGluZm8vbG9vcHMNCg0KLS0gDQpMT09QUyBtYWlsaW5n IGxpc3QNCkxPT1BTQGlldGYub3JnDQpodHRwczovL3d3dy5pZXRmLm9yZy9tYWlsbWFuL2xpc3Rp bmZvL2xvb3BzDQo= From nobody Tue Jun 18 06:32:37 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 94774120043 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:32:35 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id Gu1dZxf6gele for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:32:33 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D7B9812002E for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 06:32:32 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id EF31F728AB45C1AD8435; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:32:30 +0100 (IST) Received: from LHREML507-MBS.china.huawei.com ([10.201.109.47]) by lhreml706-cah.china.huawei.com ([10.201.108.47]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 14:32:29 +0100 From: Giuseppe Fioccola To: Michael Welzl CC: Carsten Bormann , "loops@ietf.org" , Cociglio Mauro , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Thread-Topic: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency Thread-Index: AQHVJV35lIvtQhu2ckClUnIb0DJ98aahUGqw///9hICAABd+UA== Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:32:29 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> In-Reply-To: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.204.62.190] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 13:32:35 -0000 WWVzLCBpdCBzdGFydGVkIGFzIHRoZSBzb2x1dGlvbiBmb3IgYW4gb24tcGF0aCBvYnNlcnZlciB0 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autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id 90cEqdtsJHXs for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:45:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from chinatelecom.cn (prt-mail.chinatelecom.cn [42.123.76.227]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id D73A4120309 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 08:45:24 -0700 (PDT) HMM_SOURCE_IP: 172.18.0.92:49205.1595164492 HMM_ATTACHE_NUM: 0000 HMM_SOURCE_TYPE: SMTP Received: from clientip-157.230.39.112 (unknown [172.18.0.92]) by chinatelecom.cn (HERMES) with SMTP id 8BA2C280098 for ; Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:45:08 +0800 (CST) X-189-SAVE-TO-SEND: wangjl1.bri@chinatelecom.cn Received: from EHLO ip<157.230.39.112> ([172.18.0.92]) by App0021 with ESMTP id fd8252c4-c53b-4caf-83bd-57e30edbc307 for loops@ietf.org; Tue Jun 18 23:45:13 2019 X-filter-score: filter<0> X-Real-From: wangjl1.bri@chinatelecom.cn X-Receive-IP: 172.18.0.92 X-MEDUSA-Status: 0 Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 23:45:04 +0800 From: wangjl1.bri To: loops Reply-To: =?utf-8?B?546L5rGf6b6Z?= References: , X-Priority: 3 X-Has-Attach: no X-Mailer: Foxmail 7.0.1.91[cn] Mime-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <2019061816240279598176@chinatelecom.cn> Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_001_NextPart146174512338_=----" Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] FW: draft-welzl-loops-gen-info: general direction X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Jun 2019 15:45:34 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_001_NextPart146174512338_=---- Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 RGVhciBDYXJzdGVuLCBBbGwNCiAgICAgICBUaGlzIGlzICBKaWFuZ2xvbmcgV2FuZyBmcm9tIENo aW5hIFRlbGVjb20uIEZvciB0aGUgdXNlIGNhc2UgbWVudGlvbmVkICBpbiBkcmFmdC1saS10c3Z3 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       This=20 is  Jianglong Wang from China Telecom. For the use case mentione= d=20  in draft-li-tsvwg-loops-problem-opportunities, it talked about using= LOOPS=20 for different path segments over a selected path. I think SRv6 is a good=20 candidate here too as it provides the path selection (source routing) natu= rally.=20 So SRv6 could be a specific encapsulation protocol for LOOPS. SRv6 + LOOPS= may=20 benefit two other deployments which are currently under our evaluation.=20  =20

 

1.     =20 Enterprise bra= nch=20 connection over public Internet

SiteA GW1=20 -------------(SRv6)-------------vCPE1 -------------(Internet, multiple SRv= 6=20 segments)---------------vCPE2---------( SRv6 )---------SiteB GW2=20

  &n= bsp;     =20        |---<- LOOPS enabled=20 here -> ---|----------------------<- LOOPS enabled=20 here -> - ---------------------|    =   

  &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;       

  &n= bsp;  In=20 this scenario, the enterprise accesses to the Internet backbone network th= rough=20 vCPE, and uses SRv6 encapsulated packets to carry the end-to-end= =20 services. Considering the operation of the existing network, there=20 are certain packet loss in the Internet backbone network. In addition= ,=20 operators have to provide service guarantees when the quality of the acces= s=20 network is not good. The application of srv6+loops may solve the path sele= ction=20 and long packet loss retransmission problems at the same time.

 

2.     =20 Connect=20 an enterprise GW to a cloud based POP for public cloud access  = ;            &= nbsp;     

SiteA GW1=20 -------------(SRv6)-------------vCPE1 -------------(Internet, multiple SRv= 6=20 segments)--------------PoP in public cloud-----vPC-----( DC Interconnectio= n=20 )------- vPC

  &n= bsp;     =20             &n= bsp;           &nbs= p;            =             &n= bsp;           =20 |----------------------<- LOOPS enabled=20 here -> - ---------------------|    =   

  &n= bsp; 

 In this=20 scenario, vCPE connects to a cloud based PoP which further directs direct=20 traffic to vPC. vCPE can be city or province based. Number of cloud based = PoP is=20 much fewer. So vCPE to PoP can be over a long distance. If srv6+loops can = be=20 enabled for segments of this sub-path, that would be useful too.=20

 

It seems that = your=20 current assumption is ingress and egress are virtual nodes based. So it wo= uld be=20 easier to embed LOOPS function for virtual nodes in terms of computing and= =20 memory resources. If embeded in srv6 over the abovementioned Internet path= ,=20 LOOPS may need to be supported by all the intermediate SRv6 nodes in addit= ion to=20 ingress and egress. It may not be easy, considering they are hardware base= d.=20  But it should be considered in my opinion for future=20 deployment.

Regards

=

Jianglong=20 Wang

 
 
 
From: LOOPS [mailto:loops-bounces@ietf.org] On Be= half Of Carsten Bormann
Sent: Wednesday, June 12, 2019 5:18 PM<= /DIV>
To: loops@ietf.org
Subject: [LOOPS] draft-welzl-loops-gen-info: general&n= bsp;direction
 
Is the general direction taken by
 
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info
 
the one that should be pursued in = the LOOPS activity?
 
Specifically:
=E2=80=94 protocol is run between an in= gress and an egress, apart from some fo= rm of controller for setup purposes no = other nodes are involved.
=E2=80=94 two modes for recover: retransmiss= ion mode, FEC mode =E2=80=94 protocol operat= es on sparse forward information (for retran= smission mode, pretty much a sequence number=  and an ACK request) and reverse inform= ation that can be piggybacked on a reve= rse tunnel or sent in separate messages = ;=E2=80=94 no =E2=80=9Cconnection setup=E2=80=9D betwe= en ingress and egress nodes =E2=80=94 the&nb= sp;protocol defines a generic information model;&= nbsp;specific encodings are defined for specific&= nbsp;encapsulation protocols such as GUE or = Geneve
 
(The draft actually offers two slightly = ;different approaches, one in the main body,=  one somewhat more innovative approach in&nb= sp;Appendix B.  If you think that Appen= dix B could be used in a kind of&n= bsp;deployment that you are interested in, w= e would like to hear from you.)
 
Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten
 
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------=_001_NextPart146174512338_=------ From nobody Wed Jun 19 02:45:06 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id F0953120478 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 02:45:04 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id XRJC07fRf65H for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 02:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1156B120473 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 02:45:02 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.106]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id B24BC8AB865520DA6EE9 for ; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:44:59 +0100 (IST) Received: from NKGEML414-HUB.china.huawei.com (10.98.56.75) by lhreml704-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.45) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 10:44:59 +0100 Received: from NKGEML513-MBX.china.huawei.com ([169.254.1.66]) by nkgeml414-hub.china.huawei.com ([10.98.56.75]) with mapi id 14.03.0415.000; Wed, 19 Jun 2019 17:40:50 +0800 From: Liyizhou To: Carsten Bormann , "loops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency Thread-Index: AQHVJV33hqbu9tEJD0KYGyxbIxeNM6aiQR+g Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:40:51 +0000 Message-ID: References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.186.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 19 Jun 2019 09:45:05 -0000 SGkgQ2Fyc3RlbiwNCg0KVGhlcmUgYXJlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBtZXRyaWNzIHRvIG1lYXN1cmUgZm9y IExPT1BTIGVuYWJsZWQgc2VnbWVudCwgaS5lLiBiZXR3ZWVuIGluZ3Jlc3MgYW5kIGVncmVzcy4N Ci0gbG9jYWwgUlRUIG9yIG9uZS13YXkgbGF0ZW5jeQ0KLSBsb3NzIHJhdGUgb3ZlciBjZXJ0YWlu IHRpbWUgcGVyaW9kDQotIHRocm91Z2hwdXQgKGJ5IGNhbGN1bGF0aW9uKQ0KDQpUaGUgZnVuZGFt ZW50YWwgcHVycG9zZSB0byBtZWFzdXJlIGRpZmZlcmVudCBtZXRyaWNzIGFuZCBtb25pdG9yIHRo ZWlyIGNoYW5nZSBpcyB0byBoZWxwIGRldGVybWluZSB3aGF0IGtpbmQgb2YgbG9zcyBzaWduYWwg KENFIG9yIG5vdCBDRSBtYXJraW5nLCByZWNvdmVyIG9yIG5vdCByZWNvdmVyIHRoZSBsb3NzLCBl dGMpIHNob3VsZCBiZSByZWxheWVkIHRvIGVuZCBob3N0IHNlbmRlciB3aGVuIGEgcGFja2V0IGxv 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14.03.0415.000; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 11:57:34 +0800 From: Liyizhou To: "loops@ietf.org" CC: Carsten Bormann Thread-Topic: Some observations regarding ioam//RE: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency Thread-Index: AdUq/4JSZvT0+8g2QXC4W/upPsqEPg== Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:57:34 +0000 Message-ID: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.186.90] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: [LOOPS] Some observations regarding ioam//RE: Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2019 03:59:08 -0000 SGksDQoNCklPQU0gd29yayBoYXMgYmVlbiBicm91Z2h0IHVwIG9mZmxpbmUgZnJvbSB0aW1lIHRv 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loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 605D9120096 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:12:32 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id MWaaa8agvfJT for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 1B30E120122 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:12:30 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45YXkN2QfSzygP; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:12:28 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:12:27 +0200 Cc: Giuseppe Fioccola , "loops@ietf.org" , Cociglio Mauro , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 583222345.9755009-18d7ec7c009535603c4008f314da2a3c Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <0D13F099-6EC3-427F-A2A2-BED45E781766@tzi.org> References: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Welzl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:12:32 -0000 On Jun 18, 2019, at 14:52, Michael Welzl wrote: >=20 > I thought the spin bit is meant for a router somewhere along the path = to understand the end-to-end RTT of a flow. > We, on the other hand, need a LOOPS ingress node to understand the RTT = (or, better, OWD) to the LOOPS egress node. So this is = (LOOPS-)end-to-(LOOPS)-end. We need a number of measurements, and an implementation could also make = use of additional measurements. If a measurement for the end-to-end RTT = is available for a flow, it can be used to properly dose congestion = event signaling for non-ECT flows in the way described at the end of = Section 2.4 of gen-info [1]. It may also be useful to derive an upper = limit for the timing of retransmissions (and the latency variance these = will introduce). But I would argue that getting that end-to-end RTT measurement is not a = function of LOOPS =E2=80=94 it is a function that implementations could = provide to improve the LOOPS function of congestion signaling. = (Besides, that measurement is per-flow, not a per-tunnel wholesale = measurement.) As Yizhou listed [2], we need a number of different per-tunnel = measurements, and we need them to be available for different functions = of the LOOPS protocol. Specifically: =E2=80=94 per-tunnel RTT, to time retransmissions =E2=80=94 per-tunnel one-way latency, to detect congestion and sort = congestion from non-congestion losses =E2=80=94 per-tunnel loss rate (and other statistical properties of the = loss), for parameterizing FEC These differ in how they can be achieved, where the data is produced and = where it is needed, and that should guide the design. E.g., moving the = timestamps into the forward information makes latency variation = immediately available at the egress, which is also the place where the = congestion signaling to non-ECT transports will need to happen. Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten [1]: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info-00#section-2.4 [2]: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/loops/P3LdmvVvMeeYUzv-6r9oB91pkvQ= From nobody Tue Jun 25 23:39:22 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id E7AF8120256 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:39:19 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id hqeL8h0KE_XI for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:39:17 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out02.uio.no (mail-out02.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:8210::71]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EAAAB12016B for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2019 23:39:16 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-mx10.uio.no ([129.240.10.27]) by mail-out02.uio.no with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hg1aD-000CFk-QI; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:05 +0200 Received: from ti0182q160-3005.bb.online.no ([62.16.247.223] helo=[10.0.0.2]) by mail-mx10.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hg1aC-000Fo1-Ty; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:05 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: <0D13F099-6EC3-427F-A2A2-BED45E781766@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:39:01 +0200 Cc: Giuseppe Fioccola , "loops@ietf.org" , Cociglio Mauro , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <7A59934F-9143-4048-950F-02E1D7E7C795@ifi.uio.no> References: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> <0D13F099-6EC3-427F-A2A2-BED45E781766@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx10.uio.no: 62.16.247.223 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=62.16.247.223; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=[10.0.0.2]; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: 597289F9C04AB0951FB7E843392441A6681A7E20 Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 06:39:20 -0000 Hi, Thanks, all of this is very reasonable IMO. More below: > On Jun 26, 2019, at 8:12 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On Jun 18, 2019, at 14:52, Michael Welzl wrote: >>=20 >> I thought the spin bit is meant for a router somewhere along the path = to understand the end-to-end RTT of a flow. >> We, on the other hand, need a LOOPS ingress node to understand the = RTT (or, better, OWD) to the LOOPS egress node. So this is = (LOOPS-)end-to-(LOOPS)-end. >=20 > We need a number of measurements, and an implementation could also = make use of additional measurements. If a measurement for the = end-to-end RTT is available for a flow, it can be used to properly dose = congestion event signaling for non-ECT flows in the way described at the = end of Section 2.4 of gen-info [1]. It may also be useful to derive an = upper limit for the timing of retransmissions (and the latency variance = these will introduce). >=20 > But I would argue that getting that end-to-end RTT measurement is not = a function of LOOPS =E2=80=94 it is a function that implementations = could provide to improve the LOOPS function of congestion signaling. = (Besides, that measurement is per-flow, not a per-tunnel wholesale = measurement.) I see - I didn=E2=80=99t think of this being useful additional = information, but I agree it can be. > As Yizhou listed [2], we need a number of different per-tunnel = measurements, and we need them to be available for different functions = of the LOOPS protocol. Specifically: >=20 > =E2=80=94 per-tunnel RTT, to time retransmissions > =E2=80=94 per-tunnel one-way latency, to detect congestion and sort = congestion from non-congestion losses > =E2=80=94 per-tunnel loss rate (and other statistical properties of = the loss), for parameterizing FEC >=20 > These differ in how they can be achieved, where the data is produced = and where it is needed, and that should guide the design. E.g., moving = the timestamps into the forward information makes latency variation = immediately available at the egress, which is also the place where the = congestion signaling to non-ECT transports will need to happen. I agree with all that. Just a side question: what makes you say = =E2=80=9Cnon-ECT transports=E2=80=9D? How is this different for ECT = ones? Cheers, Michael >=20 > Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten >=20 >=20 > [1]: = https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-welzl-loops-gen-info-00#section-2.4 > [2]: = https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/loops/P3LdmvVvMeeYUzv-6r9oB91pkvQ From nobody Wed Jun 26 01:50:44 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 06B5212010E for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:50:43 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.197 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.197 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_NONE=0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id YUmqqU1XcL51 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from smtp.uni-bremen.de (gabriel-vm-2.zfn.uni-bremen.de [134.102.50.17]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5B24F120043 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:50:41 -0700 (PDT) Received: from [192.168.217.110] (p54A6CA4C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de [84.166.202.76]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by smtp.uni-bremen.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 45YcDt5ms9zyW7; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:50:38 +0200 (CEST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 11.5 \(3445.9.1\)) From: Carsten Bormann In-Reply-To: <7A59934F-9143-4048-950F-02E1D7E7C795@ifi.uio.no> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:50:38 +0200 Cc: Giuseppe Fioccola , Cociglio Mauro , "loops@ietf.org" , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" X-Mao-Original-Outgoing-Id: 583231836.690906-9b3c705cb345bb56ae69fe3e970128ab Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <45F6651A-A39E-4A98-9C16-B7314AE37D51@tzi.org> References: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> <0D13F099-6EC3-427F-A2A2-BED45E781766@tzi.org> <7A59934F-9143-4048-950F-02E1D7E7C795@ifi.uio.no> To: Michael Welzl X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.9.1) Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:50:43 -0000 On Jun 26, 2019, at 08:39, Michael Welzl wrote: >=20 >> E.g., moving the timestamps into the forward information makes = latency variation immediately available at the egress, which is also the = place where the congestion signaling to non-ECT transports will need to = happen. >=20 > I agree with all that. Just a side question: what makes you say = =E2=80=9Cnon-ECT transports=E2=80=9D? How is this different for ECT = ones? Indeed, congestion signaling has to happen for either. It is just massively simpler for ECT transports, as we can simply hand = through loss/CE events in the CE marking. For non-ECT transports, we don=E2=80=99t want to hand through each loss = (there would be no point in recovering them if we then have to drop all = of them). (This requires per-flow state, which definitely should remain optional = in a LOOPS implementation.) Gr=C3=BC=C3=9Fe, Carsten From nobody Wed Jun 26 01:52:27 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id CB8771201CF for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:52:25 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.199 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.199 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_HELO_NONE=0.001, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id BcfHd3_C9Am8 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-out01.uio.no (mail-out01.uio.no [IPv6:2001:700:100:10::50]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D803120170 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 01:52:23 -0700 (PDT) Received: from mail-mx12.uio.no ([129.240.10.84]) by mail-out01.uio.no with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hg3f1-0008S5-H4; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:52:11 +0200 Received: from ti0182q160-3005.bb.online.no ([62.16.247.223] helo=[10.0.0.2]) by mail-mx12.uio.no with esmtpsa (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) user michawe (Exim 4.92) (envelope-from ) id 1hg3f0-0004my-Q8; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:52:11 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 12.4 \(3445.104.11\)) From: Michael Welzl In-Reply-To: <45F6651A-A39E-4A98-9C16-B7314AE37D51@tzi.org> Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 10:52:09 +0200 Cc: Giuseppe Fioccola , Cociglio Mauro , "loops@ietf.org" , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <97809E35-385B-4579-B1CD-9BCD407223C8@ifi.uio.no> References: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> <0D13F099-6EC3-427F-A2A2-BED45E781766@tzi.org> <7A59934F-9143-4048-950F-02E1D7E7C795@ifi.uio.no> <45F6651A-A39E-4A98-9C16-B7314AE37D51@tzi.org> To: Carsten Bormann X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3445.104.11) X-UiO-SPF-Received: Received-SPF: neutral (mail-mx12.uio.no: 62.16.247.223 is neither permitted nor denied by domain of ifi.uio.no) client-ip=62.16.247.223; envelope-from=michawe@ifi.uio.no; helo=[10.0.0.2]; X-UiO-Spam-info: not spam, SpamAssassin (score=-5.0, required=5.0, autolearn=disabled, UIO_MAIL_IS_INTERNAL=-5, uiobl=NO, uiouri=NO) X-UiO-Scanned: FFA7A9386596324537062BA93E6F281E6B6A73BC Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2019 08:52:26 -0000 > On Jun 26, 2019, at 10:50 AM, Carsten Bormann wrote: >=20 > On Jun 26, 2019, at 08:39, Michael Welzl wrote: >>=20 >>> E.g., moving the timestamps into the forward information makes = latency variation immediately available at the egress, which is also the = place where the congestion signaling to non-ECT transports will need to = happen. >>=20 >> I agree with all that. Just a side question: what makes you say = =E2=80=9Cnon-ECT transports=E2=80=9D? How is this different for ECT = ones? >=20 > Indeed, congestion signaling has to happen for either. > It is just massively simpler for ECT transports, as we can simply hand = through loss/CE events in the CE marking. > For non-ECT transports, we don=E2=80=99t want to hand through each = loss (there would be no point in recovering them if we then have to drop = all of them). Ahh, sure > (This requires per-flow state, which definitely should remain optional = in a LOOPS implementation.) Yes. Got it, thanks! Cheers, Michael From nobody Wed Jun 26 19:39:32 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC129120130 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:39:30 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id EpwhwWbbv4Gq for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:39:29 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C9E8E120041 for ; Wed, 26 Jun 2019 19:39:28 -0700 (PDT) Received: from lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.107]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 138032CB945B4A9C0C4B; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:39:27 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.104) by lhreml709-cah.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.32) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 03:39:26 +0100 Received: from dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.104) by dggeme708-chm.china.huawei.com (10.1.199.104) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:39:24 +0800 Received: from dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.69]) by dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.69]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Thu, 27 Jun 2019 10:39:24 +0800 From: "Zhouxingwang (Joe)" To: Carsten Bormann , Michael Welzl CC: Giuseppe Fioccola , Cociglio Mauro , "loops@ietf.org" , "Brian Trammell (IETF)" Thread-Topic: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency Thread-Index: AQHVJV33B5QH8c2280y2us4ehkzqwqag1PGAgAADpICADCLUgIAAB2yAgAAkxgCAAZnWcA== Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:39:24 +0000 Message-ID: References: <8033CD47-410C-4C04-B4E1-F70EBC2B92C3@ifi.uio.no> <0D13F099-6EC3-427F-A2A2-BED45E781766@tzi.org> <7A59934F-9143-4048-950F-02E1D7E7C795@ifi.uio.no> <45F6651A-A39E-4A98-9C16-B7314AE37D51@tzi.org> In-Reply-To: <45F6651A-A39E-4A98-9C16-B7314AE37D51@tzi.org> Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.27.230] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 27 Jun 2019 02:39:31 -0000 SGksDQoNCkdlbmVyYWxseSBzcGVha2luZywgbWFpbnRhaW5pbmcgcGVyLWZsb3cgc3RhdGUgaW4g YSBuZXR3b3JrIG5vZGUgaXMgYSBoZWF2eSBzb2x1dGlvbi4NCkJ1dCBmb3IgdGhpcyBzY2VuYXJp bywgIHRoZSBMT09QUyBub2RlIGRvZXMgbm90IG5lZWQgdG8gbWFpbnRhaW4gdGhlIHN0YXRlIGZv ciBldmVyeSBmbG93IGFsbCB0aGUgdGltZSwgdGhlIGluZ3Jlc3Mgbm9kZSBjYW4gc3RhcnQgdG8g bWFpbnRhaW4gdGhlIHN0YXRlIG9mIHRoZSBmbG93cyBvbmx5IGZvciB0aGUgcmV0cmFuc21pc3Np b24gcGFja2V0cywgdGhlbiB0aGUgbnVtYmVyIG9mIHRoZSBmbG93cyBzaG91bGQgYmUgbXVjaCBz bWFsbGVyIHRoYW4gdGhlIHRvdGFsIG51bWJlciBvZiBmbG93cywgYmFzZWQgb24gdGhpcywgaW5n cmVzcyBub2RlIG1heSBtYWtlIHN1cmUgZXZlcnkgbG9zcy1hZmZlY3RlZCBmbG93IGhhcyBvbmUg bG9zcyBldmVudCBmb3IgZXZlcnkgUlRULg0KDQpUaGFua3MNCkpvZQ0KDQotLS0tLU9yaWdpbmFs IE1lc3NhZ2UtLS0tLQ0KRnJvbTogTE9PUFMgW21haWx0bzpsb29wcy1ib3VuY2VzQGlldGYub3Jn XSBPbiBCZWhhbGYgT2YgQ2Fyc3RlbiBCb3JtYW5uDQpTZW50OiBXZWRuZXNkYXksIEp1bmUgMjYs IDIwMTkgNDo1MSBQTQ0KVG86IE1pY2hhZWwgV2VsemwgPG1pY2hhd2VAaWZpLnVpby5ubz4NCkNj OiBHaXVzZXBwZSBGaW9jY29sYSA8Z2l1c2VwcGUuZmlvY2NvbGFAaHVhd2VpLmNvbT47IENvY2ln bGlvIE1hdXJvIDxtYXVyby5jb2NpZ2xpb0B0ZWxlY29taXRhbGlhLml0PjsgbG9vcHNAaWV0Zi5v cmc7IEJyaWFuIFRyYW1tZWxsIChJRVRGKSA8aWV0ZkB0cmFtbWVsbC5jaD4NClN1YmplY3Q6IFJl OiBbTE9PUFNdIE1lYXN1cmluZyBmb3J3YXJkIGxhdGVuY3kNCg0KT24gSnVuIDI2LCAyMDE5LCBh dCAwODozOSwgTWljaGFlbCBXZWx6bCA8bWljaGF3ZUBpZmkudWlvLm5vPiB3cm90ZToNCj4gDQo+ PiBFLmcuLCBtb3ZpbmcgdGhlIHRpbWVzdGFtcHMgaW50byB0aGUgZm9yd2FyZCBpbmZvcm1hdGlv biBtYWtlcyBsYXRlbmN5IHZhcmlhdGlvbiBpbW1lZGlhdGVseSBhdmFpbGFibGUgYXQgdGhlIGVn cmVzcywgd2hpY2ggaXMgYWxzbyB0aGUgcGxhY2Ugd2hlcmUgdGhlIGNvbmdlc3Rpb24gc2lnbmFs aW5nIHRvIG5vbi1FQ1QgdHJhbnNwb3J0cyB3aWxsIG5lZWQgdG8gaGFwcGVuLg0KPiANCj4gSSBh Z3JlZSB3aXRoIGFsbCB0aGF0LiBKdXN0IGEgc2lkZSBxdWVzdGlvbjogd2hhdCBtYWtlcyB5b3Ug c2F5IOKAnG5vbi1FQ1QgdHJhbnNwb3J0c+KAnT8gIEhvdyBpcyB0aGlzIGRpZmZlcmVudCBmb3Ig RUNUIG9uZXM/DQoNCkluZGVlZCwgY29uZ2VzdGlvbiBzaWduYWxpbmcgaGFzIHRvIGhhcHBlbiBm b3IgZWl0aGVyLg0KSXQgaXMganVzdCBtYXNzaXZlbHkgc2ltcGxlciBmb3IgRUNUIHRyYW5zcG9y dHMsIGFzIHdlIGNhbiBzaW1wbHkgaGFuZCB0aHJvdWdoIGxvc3MvQ0UgZXZlbnRzIGluIHRoZSBD RSBtYXJraW5nLg0KRm9yIG5vbi1FQ1QgdHJhbnNwb3J0cywgd2UgZG9u4oCZdCB3YW50IHRvIGhh bmQgdGhyb3VnaCBlYWNoIGxvc3MgKHRoZXJlIHdvdWxkIGJlIG5vIHBvaW50IGluIHJlY292ZXJp bmcgdGhlbSBpZiB3ZSB0aGVuIGhhdmUgdG8gZHJvcCBhbGwgb2YgdGhlbSkuDQooVGhpcyByZXF1 aXJlcyBwZXItZmxvdyBzdGF0ZSwgd2hpY2ggZGVmaW5pdGVseSBzaG91bGQgcmVtYWluIG9wdGlv bmFsIGluIGEgTE9PUFMgaW1wbGVtZW50YXRpb24uKQ0KDQpHcsO8w59lLCBDYXJzdGVuDQoNCi0t IA0KTE9PUFMgbWFpbGluZyBsaXN0DQpMT09QU0BpZXRmLm9yZw0KaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuaWV0Zi5v cmcvbWFpbG1hbi9saXN0aW5mby9sb29wcw0K From nobody Thu Jun 27 06:39:35 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id B97D41200EB for ; 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charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Loops Interested, I have apponited as chairs of the LOOPS BOF Ole Troan and Spencer Dawkins. Proponents please work with them to prepare the BOF. Cheers Magnus Westerlund TSV AD --=-/P/nWagA2Jlcv4qTWcLU Content-Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature; name="smime.p7s" Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="smime.p7s" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIAGCSqGSIb3DQEHAqCAMIACAQExDzANBglghkgBZQMEAgEFADCABgkqhkiG9w0BBwEAAKCCEtww ggYHMIID76ADAgECAhALRm3NcHtuMGWutmt5cXntMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBCwUAMEcxCzAJBgNVBAYT AlNFMREwDwYDVQQKDAhFcmljc3NvbjElMCMGA1UEAwwcRXJpY3Nzb24gTkwgSW5kaXZpZHVhbCBD QSB2MzAeFw0xNzEyMTUwNzIyMjNaFw0yMDEyMTUwNzIyMjJaMHAxETAPBgNVBAoMCEVyaWNzc29u MRowGAYDVQQDDBFNYWdudXMgV2VzdGVybHVuZDEtMCsGCSqGSIb3DQEJARYebWFnbnVzLndlc3Rl cmx1bmRAZXJpY3Nzb24uY29tMRAwDgYDVQQFEwdlcmFtc3dkMIIBIjANBgkqhkiG9w0BAQEFAAOC AQ8AMIIBCgKCAQEAsKlHZvB3TsmLEDtPSiFFKAh73S2wApt+laqg5eXTqonqnzT9ykEGL2dx9mBT +2WZiIKxo4w2sisVl3EEYTqXTkctpur7cN29gLC8F3tJHGI2sUVpO9AwpVrN+UuHEVetHt7hdxW9 uYd0LJJ8TP6/wGkIfAFaZxlZUn79O2eHElfih1iVIiTZXLcEe1rBJtzhUNRHWgOm2vQlDJ4sCpig GFq5w+XSRviEQMkQZRvw1CQmb35QS/C/T36ogzIRHDuAdkoSaiUOY/S2dLp4HkwvOOg+tADpaHkr 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[127.0.0.1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9450C120146 for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:02:29 -0700 (PDT) X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at amsl.com X-Spam-Flag: NO X-Spam-Score: -4.2 X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-4.2 tagged_above=-999 required=5 tests=[BAYES_00=-1.9, RCVD_IN_DNSWL_MED=-2.3, SPF_PASS=-0.001, URIBL_BLOCKED=0.001] autolearn=ham autolearn_force=no Received: from mail.ietf.org ([4.31.198.44]) by localhost (ietfa.amsl.com [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with ESMTP id ww2Wr-JDeqmz for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from huawei.com (lhrrgout.huawei.com [185.176.76.210]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7E04D12004A for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 06:02:26 -0700 (PDT) Received: from LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (unknown [172.18.7.108]) by Forcepoint Email with ESMTP id 211A12A6ED35078ADB3E for ; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:02:24 +0100 (IST) Received: from dggeme756-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.102) by LHREML711-CAH.china.huawei.com (10.201.108.34) with Microsoft SMTP Server (TLS) id 14.3.408.0; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 14:02:23 +0100 Received: from dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.104) by dggeme756-chm.china.huawei.com (10.3.19.102) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_128_CBC_SHA256_P256) id 15.1.1591.10; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 21:02:21 +0800 Received: from dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.69]) by dggeme758-chm.china.huawei.com ([10.6.80.69]) with mapi id 15.01.1591.008; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 21:02:21 +0800 From: "Zhouxingwang (Joe)" To: Liyizhou , Carsten Bormann , "loops@ietf.org" Thread-Topic: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency Thread-Index: AQHVJV33B5QH8c2280y2us4ehkzqwqaiNVGAgA7bGXA= Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:02:21 +0000 Message-ID: <832ebb890727455d9a16dd0d3d5742cb@huawei.com> References: In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: zh-CN, en-US Content-Language: zh-CN X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.134.27.230] Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-CFilter-Loop: Reflected Archived-At: Subject: Re: [LOOPS] Measuring forward latency X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 Precedence: list List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 13:02:30 -0000 SGksIA0KDQpXaG8gd2lsbCBjb25zdW1lIHRoZSBtZWFzdXJlbWVudCBpbmZvcm1hdGlvbj8gDQoN CkZvciBFQ04tY2FwYWJsZSBjYXNlOiBpdCBpcyBib3RoIE9LIGZvciBpbmdyZXNzIG9yIGVncmVz cyBub2RlIHRvIGRvIHRoZSBDRSBvciBub3QgQ0UgbWFya2luZyBpbiByZXRyYW5zbWlzc2lvbiBv ciBGRUMgbW9kZS4NCkZvciBub24gRUNOLSBjYXBhYmxlIGNhc2UsIGl0IGlzIGNvbmdlc3RlZCBh bmQgaWY6DQoxKSB0aGUgZWdyZXNzIG5vZGUgcGVyY2VpdmVzLCBlZ3Jlc3Mgbm9kZSBjYW4gc3Rv cCByZXRyYW5zbWl0dGluZyB0aGUgcmV0cmFuc21pc3Npb24gcGFja2V0cyBmb3IgcmV0cmFuc21p 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11:02:29 2019 Return-Path: X-Original-To: loops@ietf.org Delivered-To: loops@ietfa.amsl.com Received: from ietfa.amsl.com (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by ietfa.amsl.com (Postfix) with ESMTP id DE30D1202BD; Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:58:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From: "\"IETF Secretariat\"" To: , Cc: magnus.westerlund@ericsson.com, loops@ietf.org X-Test-IDTracker: no X-IETF-IDTracker: 6.98.1 Auto-Submitted: auto-generated Precedence: bulk Message-ID: <156176268090.11015.4442395441313807857.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 15:58:00 -0700 Archived-At: X-Mailman-Approved-At: Sat, 29 Jun 2019 11:02:28 -0700 Subject: [LOOPS] loops - Requested session has been scheduled for IETF 105 X-BeenThere: loops@ietf.org X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.29 List-Id: Local Optimizations on Path Segments List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 28 Jun 2019 22:58:15 -0000 Dear Liz Flynn, The session(s) that you have requested have been scheduled. Below is the scheduled session information followed by the original request. loops Session 1 (2:00 requested) Monday, 22 July 2019, Morning Session I 1000-1200 Room Name: Laurier size: 250 --------------------------------------------- iCalendar: https://datatracker.ietf.org/meeting/105/sessions/loops.ics Request Information: --------------------------------------------------------- Working Group Name: Local Optimizations on Path Segments Area Name: Transport Area Session Requester: Liz Flynn Number of Sessions: 1 Length of Session(s): 2 Hours Number of Attendees: 150 Conflicts to Avoid: First Priority: spring nvo3 panrg intarea tsvwg ippm mptcp quic rmcat taps tcpm tram alto dtn nfsv4 People who must be present: Magnus Westerlund Resources Requested: Special Requests: ---------------------------------------------------------