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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaj.bri@chinatelecom.cn>
To: <lsr@ietf.org>
Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 16:51:37 +0800
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Subject: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Hi, All:

 

We found there were some inconsistence for the definition of "Adjacency
Segment Identifier" between OSPF and ISIS extension for segment routing,
please see the link below for comparison.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15#se
ction-2.2.1

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extension
s-10#section-7.1

 

Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? We think
this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS implementation for
segment routing extension, as that defined in
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#sec
tion-2.2.1, which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different from
OSPF extension for SR.

 

Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition in OSPF
extension may be less influence for the existing related drafts.

 

Best Regards.

 

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

 


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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi, =
All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We found there were some inconsistence for the definition =
of &#8220;Adjacency Segment Identifier&#8221; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for segment routing, please see the link below for =
comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exten=
sions-15#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segme=
nt-routing-extensions-15#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-extensions-10#section-7.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-=
ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-10#section-7.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here we want to know is there any =
reason for this inconsistence? We think this inconsistence can easily =
cause error for BGP-LS implementation for segment routing extension, as =
that defined in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-=
segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1</a>, which is similar with ISIS =
extension for SR, but different from OSPF extension for =
SR.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the =
definition in OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing =
related drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Network R&amp;D and Operation =
Support Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research =
Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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Subject: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Hi, All:

 

We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of "Adjacency
Segment Identifier" between OSPF and ISIS extension for segment routing,
please see the link below for comparison.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15#se
ction-2.2.1

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extension
s-10#section-7.1

 

Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? We think
this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS implementation for
segment routing extension, as that defined in
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#sec
tion-2.2.1, which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different from
OSPF extension for SR.

 

Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition in OSPF
extension may be less influence for the existing related drafts.

 

Best Regards.

 

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China.

 


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vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi, =
All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We found there were some inconsistence<span =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>s</span> for the definition of &#8220;Adjacency =
Segment Identifier&#8221; between OSPF and ISIS extension for segment =
routing, please see the link below for =
comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exten=
sions-15#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segme=
nt-routing-extensions-15#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-extensions-10#section-7.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-=
ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-10#section-7.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Here we want to know is there any =
reason for this inconsistence? We think this inconsistence can easily =
cause error for BGP-LS implementation for segment routing extension, as =
that defined in <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-=
segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1</a>, which is similar with ISIS =
extension for SR, but different from OSPF extension for =
SR.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the =
definition in OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing =
related drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Network R&amp;D and Operation =
Support Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research =
Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Hi Aijun,

Can you clarify what you mean by "inconsistencies"?

Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before it was al=
igned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-11#section-6.1

OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are some differences betwee=
n them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS spec refers to the in=
dividual IGP drafts for interpretation of flags. So please specifically poi=
nt out what inconsistency you are referring to.

Thanks,
Ketan

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
Sent: 02 April 2018 14:23
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" =
between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

Hi, All:

We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of "Adjacency Se=
gment Identifier" between OSPF and ISIS extension for segment routing, plea=
se see the link below for comparison.
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15#s=
ection-2.2.1
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensio=
ns-10#section-7.1

Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? We think t=
his inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS implementation for segm=
ent routing extension, as that defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft=
-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1, which is similar wit=
h ISIS extension for SR, but different from OSPF extension for SR.

Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition in OSPF =
extension may be less influence for the existing related drafts.

Best Regards.

Aijun Wang
Network R&D and Operation Support Department
China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, China=
.


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<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">Hi Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">Can you clarify what you mean by &#8220;inconsistenci=
es&#8221;?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR =
draft before it was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routi=
ng-extensions-11#section-6.1">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensio=
ns-11#section-6.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are s=
ome differences between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS=
 spec refers to the individual IGP drafts
 for interpretation of flags. So please specifically point out what inconsi=
stency you are referring to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US">Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-fa=
reast-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span la=
ng=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US=
" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Aijun Wang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 April 2018 14:23<br>
<b>To:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of &quot;Adj-S=
ID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing<o:p></=
o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;=
</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Hi, All:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">We found there were some inconsistence<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">s=
</span> for the definition of &#8220;Adjacency Segment Identifier&#8221; be=
tween OSPF and ISIS extension for segment routing, please
 see the link below for comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routin=
g-extensions-15#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-=
segment-routing-extensions-15#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment=
-routing-extensions-10#section-7.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-=
ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-10#section-7.1</a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? We t=
hink this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS implementation fo=
r segment routing extension, as that defined
 in <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-ro=
uting-ext-04#section-2.2.1">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#se=
ction-2.2.1</a>, which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different=
 from OSPF extension for SR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition in=
 OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing related drafts.<o:p>=
</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">Network R&amp;D and Operation Support Department<o:p></o:p></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN">China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing,=
 China.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:Z=
H-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Hi, Ketan:

There is one two-bytes =E2=80=9CReserved=E2=80=9D field in =E2=80=9CAdjacenc=
y Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D TLV for OSPF extension, but this field doesn=E2=
=80=99t exist in the corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every other field=
s are same.=20
Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with OSPF(not similar with ISI=
S as I mentioned in previous mail). Then when the router reports/redistribut=
es the ISIS LSDB information to BGP protocol, the router must add two bytes t=
o the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and add/stuff the =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=
=9D field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need only copy the corresponding fi=
elds according.
We have found the error arises from this inconsistency from the real router a=
nd think it is better to align this definition in different IGP protocol.

Update to ISIS related extensions draft may be easier.

Aijun Wang
China Telecom

> =E5=9C=A8 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C18:26=EF=BC=8CKetan Ta=
laulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A
>=20
> Hi Aijun,
> =20
> Can you clarify what you mean by =E2=80=9Cinconsistencies=E2=80=9D?
> =20
> Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before it was a=
ligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check https://tools.ietf.org/html/dr=
aft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-11#section-6.1
> =20
> OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are some differences betwe=
en them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS spec refers to the in=
dividual IGP drafts for interpretation of flags. So please specifically poin=
t out what inconsistency you are referring to.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Ketan
> =20
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Aijun Wang
> Sent: 02 April 2018 14:23
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV"=
 between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
> =20
> Hi, All:
> =20
> We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of =E2=80=9CAdj=
acency Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D between OSPF and ISIS extension for segme=
nt routing, please see the link below for comparison.
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15#=
section-2.2.1
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensi=
ons-10#section-7.1
> =20
> Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? We think t=
his inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS implementation for segme=
nt routing extension, as that defined in https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-i=
etf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1, which is similar with I=
SIS extension for SR, but different from OSPF extension for SR.
> =20
> Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition in OSPF=
 extension may be less influence for the existing related drafts.
> =20
> Best Regards.
> =20
> Aijun Wang
> Network R&D and Operation Support Department
> China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, Chin=
a.
> =20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto"><div><span></span></div><div><meta http-equ=
iv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dutf-8">Hi, Ketan:<div><b=
r></div><div>There is one two-bytes =E2=80=9CReserved=E2=80=9D field in&nbsp=
;<span style=3D"text-align: justify; background-color: rgba(255, 255, 255, 0=
);">=E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D TLV for OSPF extension, b=
ut this field doesn=E2=80=99t exist in the corresponding TLV for ISIS extens=
ion.&nbsp;</span><span style=3D"text-align: justify;">Every other fields are=
 same.&nbsp;</span></div><div style=3D"text-align: justify;">Corresponding d=
efinition in BGP-LS is similar with OSPF(not similar with ISIS as I mentione=
d in previous mail). Then when the router reports/redistributes the ISIS LSD=
B information to BGP protocol, the router must add two bytes to the =E2=80=9C=
length=E2=80=9D field and add/stuff the =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field; bu=
t for OSPF LSDB, the router need only copy the corresponding fields accordin=
g.</div><div style=3D"text-align: justify;">We have found the error arises f=
rom this inconsistency from the real router and think it is better to align t=
his definition in different IGP protocol.</div><div style=3D"text-align: jus=
tify;"><br></div><div style=3D"text-align: justify;">Update to ISIS related e=
xtensions draft may be easier.</div><div><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">=
Aijun Wang</div><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">China Telecom</div><div><br>=E5=
=9C=A8 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C18:26=EF=BC=8CKetan Talauli=
kar (ketant) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt=
; =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US">Hi Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US">Can you clarify what you mean by =E2=80=9Cinconsistenci=
es=E2=80=9D?<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US">Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR dr=
aft before it was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-extensions-11#section-6.1">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extension=
s-11#section-6.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US">OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are som=
e differences between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS sp=
ec refers to the individual IGP drafts
 for interpretation of flags. So please specifically point out what inconsis=
tency you are referring to.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US">Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D;mso-far=
east-language:EN-US"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0=
cm 0cm">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><b><span lan=
g=3D"EN-US" style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang=3D"EN-US" s=
tyle=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org">l=
sr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Aijun Wang<br>
<b>Sent:</b> 02 April 2018 14:23<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub=
-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span><=
/p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" align=3D"left" style=3D"text-align:left"><o:p>&nbsp;<=
/o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Hi, All:<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">We found there were some inconsistence<span style=3D"color:#1F497D">s</=
span> for the definition of =E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D b=
etween OSPF and ISIS extension for segment routing, please
 see the link below for comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-=
extensions-15#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-seg=
ment-routing-extensions-15#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-r=
outing-extensions-10#section-7.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-osp=
f-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-10#section-7.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p>=

<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? We thi=
nk this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS implementation for s=
egment routing extension, as that defined
 in <a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-rou=
ting-ext-04#section-2.2.1">
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#sec=
tion-2.2.1</a>, which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different f=
rom OSPF extension for SR.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition in O=
SPF extension may be less influence for the existing related drafts.<o:p></o=
:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">Network R&amp;D and Operation Support Department<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN">China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, C=
hina.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span lang=3D"EN-US" style=3D"mso-fareast-language:ZH=
-CN"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>Lsr mailing list</span><br><span=
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tinfo/lsr</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></div></body></html>=

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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2018 12:19:47 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2018 09:34:35 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Speaking as WG member:
>
> I couldn’t agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to these
> documents.

as a coauthor of the OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Ketan Talaulikar
> (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
> *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 AM
> *To: *Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID
> Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
>
> Hi Aijun,
>
> I understand what you are referring to now, but these are not
> inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 different protocols. Their
> encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses 1 byte for type/length and
> has LSP space constraints which you would notice in the protocol
> encodings. OSPF doesn’t have the same challenge and you would notice how
> its TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat similar to OSPF from
> these size constraints perspective.
>
> I do not see the implementation challenges in encoding from the two IGPs
> into BGP-LS. It does not make sense to change any of the protocol
> encodings that you ask for currently since implementations have been
> shipping with them for many years.
>
> IMHO it is not necessary to put such constraints for what you call
> “consistency” on these 3 protocol encodings in the future. However, we
> do try to be consistent in semantics as much as possible.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ketan
>
> *From:*Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
> *Sent:* 02 April 2018 16:52
> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID
> Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
>
> Hi, Ketan:
>
> There is one two-bytes “Reserved” field in “Adjacency Segment
> Identifier” TLV for OSPF extension, but this field doesn’t exist in the
> corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every other fields are same.
>
> Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with OSPF(not similar with
> ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then when the router
> reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to BGP protocol, the
> router must add two bytes to the “length” field and add/stuff the
> “reserved” field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need only copy the
> corresponding fields according.
>
> We have found the error arises from this inconsistency from the real
> router and think it is better to align this definition in different IGP
> protocol.
>
> Update to ISIS related extensions draft may be easier.
>
> Aijun Wang
>
> China Telecom
>
>
> 在 2018年4月2日，18:26，Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)
> <ketant@cisco.com<mailto:ketant@cisco.com>> 写道：
>
>     Hi Aijun,
>
>     Can you clarify what you mean by “inconsistencies”?
>
>     Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before it
>     was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-11#section-6.1
>
>     OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are some differences
>     between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS spec
>     refers to the individual IGP drafts for interpretation of flags. So
>     please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring to.
>
>     Thanks,
>
>     Ketan
>
>     *From:*Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> *On
>     Behalf Of *Aijun Wang
>     *Sent:* 02 April 2018 14:23
>     *To:* lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
>     *Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID
>     Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
>
>     Hi, All:
>
>     We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of
>     “Adjacency Segment Identifier” between OSPF and ISIS extension for
>     segment routing, please see the link below for comparison.
>
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15#section-2.2.1
>
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-10#section-7.1
>
>     Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? We
>     think this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS
>     implementation for segment routing extension, as that defined in
>     https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1,
>     which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different from OSPF
>     extension for SR.
>
>     Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition
>     in OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing related drafts.
>
>     Best Regards.
>
>     Aijun Wang
>
>     Network R&D and Operation Support Department
>
>     China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research
>     Institute,Beijing, China.
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Lsr mailing list
>     Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


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From: stefano previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
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Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2018 09:38:47 +0200
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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References: <008101d3ca60$073f81b0$15be8510$@org.cn> <c5a4d1de5e7943318821018c138b5562@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <1B346347-9242-4EE4-BDA2-F024EF483B8A@tsinghua.org.cn> <aab65c5b06d346d2a5a4ef8cef5ad28b@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <8C26288C-54C3-4C04-91A6-2B99562A1DE9@cisco.com> <5AC32E8B.6090202@cisco.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/4ctTXFg2HebzS0rI7yPzQgVWzVo>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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me too.=20

If we want to align the encoding, we should probably better align the =
protocol name directly...

s.


> On Apr 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>> Speaking as WG member:
>>=20
>> I couldn=E2=80=99t agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to =
these
>> documents.
>=20
> as a coauthor of the OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.
>=20
> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Acee
>>=20
>> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Ketan Talaulikar
>> (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
>> *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 AM
>> *To: *Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
>> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID
>> Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
>>=20
>> Hi Aijun,
>>=20
>> I understand what you are referring to now, but these are not
>> inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 different protocols. =
Their
>> encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses 1 byte for type/length =
and
>> has LSP space constraints which you would notice in the protocol
>> encodings. OSPF doesn=E2=80=99t have the same challenge and you would =
notice how
>> its TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat similar to OSPF from
>> these size constraints perspective.
>>=20
>> I do not see the implementation challenges in encoding from the two =
IGPs
>> into BGP-LS. It does not make sense to change any of the protocol
>> encodings that you ask for currently since implementations have been
>> shipping with them for many years.
>>=20
>> IMHO it is not necessary to put such constraints for what you call
>> =E2=80=9Cconsistency=E2=80=9D on these 3 protocol encodings in the =
future. However, we
>> do try to be consistent in semantics as much as possible.
>>=20
>> Thanks,
>>=20
>> Ketan
>>=20
>> *From:*Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
>> *Sent:* 02 April 2018 16:52
>> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
>> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID
>> Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
>>=20
>> Hi, Ketan:
>>=20
>> There is one two-bytes =E2=80=9CReserved=E2=80=9D field in =
=E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment
>> Identifier=E2=80=9D TLV for OSPF extension, but this field doesn=E2=80=99=
t exist in the
>> corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every other fields are same.
>>=20
>> Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with OSPF(not similar =
with
>> ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then when the router
>> reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to BGP protocol, the
>> router must add two bytes to the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and =
add/stuff the
>> =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need =
only copy the
>> corresponding fields according.
>>=20
>> We have found the error arises from this inconsistency from the real
>> router and think it is better to align this definition in different =
IGP
>> protocol.
>>=20
>> Update to ISIS related extensions draft may be easier.
>>=20
>> Aijun Wang
>>=20
>> China Telecom
>>=20
>>=20
>> =E5=9C=A8 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C18:26=EF=BC=8CKetan=
 Talaulikar (ketant)
>> <ketant@cisco.com<mailto:ketant@cisco.com>> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A=

>>=20
>>    Hi Aijun,
>>=20
>>    Can you clarify what you mean by =E2=80=9Cinconsistencies=E2=80=9D?
>>=20
>>    Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before =
it
>>    was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check
>>    =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensi=
ons-11#section-6.1
>>=20
>>    OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are some =
differences
>>    between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS spec
>>    refers to the individual IGP drafts for interpretation of flags. =
So
>>    please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring =
to.
>>=20
>>    Thanks,
>>=20
>>    Ketan
>>=20
>>    *From:*Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> *On
>>    Behalf Of *Aijun Wang
>>    *Sent:* 02 April 2018 14:23
>>    *To:* lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>
>>    *Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID
>>    Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
>>=20
>>    Hi, All:
>>=20
>>    We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of
>>    =E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for
>>    segment routing, please see the link below for comparison.
>>=20
>>    =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15#=
section-2.2.1
>>=20
>>    =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensi=
ons-10#section-7.1
>>=20
>>    Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? =
We
>>    think this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS
>>    implementation for segment routing extension, as that defined in
>>    =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#s=
ection-2.2.1,
>>    which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different from =
OSPF
>>    extension for SR.
>>=20
>>    Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition
>>    in OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing related =
drafts.
>>=20
>>    Best Regards.
>>=20
>>    Aijun Wang
>>=20
>>    Network R&D and Operation Support Department
>>=20
>>    China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research
>>    Institute,Beijing, China.
>>=20
>>    _______________________________________________
>>    Lsr mailing list
>>    Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
>>    https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>=20
>>=20
>>=20
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Yang Data Model for OSPF Protocol
        Authors         : Derek Yeung
                          Yingzhen Qu
                          Jeffrey Zhang
                          Ing-Wher Chen
                          Acee Lindem
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-yang-11.txt
	Pages           : 108
	Date            : 2018-04-03

Abstract:
   This document defines a YANG data model that can be used to configure
   and manage OSPF.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-yang/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-11
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-yang-11

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-yang-11


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'stefano previdi'" <stefano@previdi.net>, "'Peter Psenak'" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: <lsr@ietf.org>, "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" <ketant@cisco.com>, "'Acee Lindem \(acee\)'" <acee@cisco.com>
References: <008101d3ca60$073f81b0$15be8510$@org.cn> <c5a4d1de5e7943318821018c138b5562@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <1B346347-9242-4EE4-BDA2-F024EF483B8A@tsinghua.org.cn> <aab65c5b06d346d2a5a4ef8cef5ad28b@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <8C26288C-54C3-4C04-91A6-2B99562A1DE9@cisco.com> <5AC32E8B.6090202@cisco.com> <CF9450C5-028B-4B29-9F3A-137254AFF320@previdi.net>
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Subject: [Lsr] =?utf-8?b?562U5aSNOiAgSW5jb25zaXN0ZW5jZSByZWdhcmRpbmcgdGhl?= =?utf-8?q?_definition_of_=22Adj-SID_Sub-TLV=22_between_OSPF_and_ISIS_exte?= =?utf-8?q?nsion_for_Segment_Routing?=
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Hi, All:

=20

We have found some inconsistencies for the implementation of BGP-LS =
protocol regarding this =E2=80=9CAdj-SID SubTLV =E2=80=9D, please see =
the following screenshot.

I think we should do some works for the related drafts to clarify this =
ambiguous/easy to be ignored definition.

=20



=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, =
China.

=20

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: stefano previdi =
[mailto:stefano@previdi.net]=20
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5 =
15:39
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Acee Lindem =
(acee); Aijun Wang
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

=20

me too.=20

=20

If we want to align the encoding, we should probably better align the =
protocol name directly...

=20

s.

=20

=20

> On Apr 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Peter Psenak < <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> =
ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

>=20

> On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:

>> Speaking as WG member:

>>=20

>> I couldn=E2=80=99t agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to =
these=20

>> documents.

>=20

> as a coauthor of the OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.

>=20

> thanks,

> Peter

>=20

>>=20

>> Thanks,

>>=20

>> Acee

>>=20

>> *From: *Lsr < <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on =
behalf of "Ketan Talaulikar=20

>> (ketant)" < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com> ketant@cisco.com>

>> *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 AM

>> *To: *Aijun Wang < <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> =
wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>

>> *Cc: *" <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org" < <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
lsr@ietf.org>

>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of=20

>> "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>> Hi Aijun,

>>=20

>> I understand what you are referring to now, but these are not=20

>> inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 different protocols.=20

>> Their encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses 1 byte for=20

>> type/length and has LSP space constraints which you would notice in=20

>> the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn=E2=80=99t have the same challenge =
and you=20

>> would notice how its TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat=20

>> similar to OSPF from these size constraints perspective.

>>=20

>> I do not see the implementation challenges in encoding from the two=20

>> IGPs into BGP-LS. It does not make sense to change any of the=20

>> protocol encodings that you ask for currently since implementations=20

>> have been shipping with them for many years.

>>=20

>> IMHO it is not necessary to put such constraints for what you call=20

>> =E2=80=9Cconsistency=E2=80=9D on these 3 protocol encodings in the =
future. However,=20

>> we do try to be consistent in semantics as much as possible.

>>=20

>> Thanks,

>>=20

>> Ketan

>>=20

>> *From:*Aijun Wang < <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> =
wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>

>> *Sent:* 02 April 2018 16:52

>> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com> =
ketant@cisco.com>

>> *Cc:*  <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org

>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of=20

>> "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>> Hi, Ketan:

>>=20

>> There is one two-bytes =E2=80=9CReserved=E2=80=9D field in =
=E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment=20

>> Identifier=E2=80=9D TLV for OSPF extension, but this field =
doesn=E2=80=99t exist in=20

>> the corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every other fields are =
same.

>>=20

>> Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with OSPF(not similar=20

>> with ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then when the router=20

>> reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to BGP protocol, the=20

>> router must add two bytes to the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and =
add/stuff the=20

>> =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need =
only copy the=20

>> corresponding fields according.

>>=20

>> We have found the error arises from this inconsistency from the real=20

>> router and think it is better to align this definition in different=20

>> IGP protocol.

>>=20

>> Update to ISIS related extensions draft may be easier.

>>=20

>> Aijun Wang

>>=20

>> China Telecom

>>=20

>>=20

>> =E5=9C=A8 =
2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C18:26=EF=BC=8CKetan Talaulikar =
(ketant)=20

>> < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com%3cmailto:ketant@cisco.com> =
ketant@cisco.com<mailto:ketant@cisco.com>> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A

>>=20

>>    Hi Aijun,

>>=20

>>    Can you clarify what you mean by =
=E2=80=9Cinconsistencies=E2=80=9D?

>>=20

>>    Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before =
it

>>    was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex

>> tensions-11#section-6.1

>>=20

>>    OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are some =
differences

>>    between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS spec

>>    refers to the individual IGP drafts for interpretation of flags. =
So

>>    please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring =
to.

>>=20

>>    Thanks,

>>=20

>>    Ketan

>>=20

>>    *From:*Lsr < =
<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> *On

>>    Behalf Of *Aijun Wang

>>    *Sent:* 02 April 2018 14:23

>>    *To:*  <mailto:lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

>>    *Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID

>>    Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>>    Hi, All:

>>=20

>>    We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of

>>    =E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for

>>    segment routing, please see the link below for comparison.

>>=20

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension

>> s-15#section-2.2.1

>>=20

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex

>> tensions-10#section-7.1

>>=20

>>    Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? =
We

>>    think this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS

>>    implementation for segment routing extension, as that defined in

>>     =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04=
#section-2.2.1> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#=
section-2.2.1,

>>    which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different from =
OSPF

>>    extension for SR.

>>=20

>>    Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition

>>    in OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing related =
drafts.

>>=20

>>    Best Regards.

>>=20

>>    Aijun Wang

>>=20

>>    Network R&D and Operation Support Department

>>=20

>>    China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research

>>    Institute,Beijing, China.

>>=20

>>    _______________________________________________

>>    Lsr mailing list

>>     <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:Lsr@ietf.org> =
Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>>=20

>>=20

>>=20

>> _______________________________________________

>> Lsr mailing list

>>  <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

>>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>>=20

>=20

> _______________________________________________

> Lsr mailing list

>  <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

=20

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

 <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Hi, =
All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have found some inconsistencies for the implementation =
of BGP-LS protocol regarding this </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Adj-SID SubTLV </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US>, =
please see the following screenshot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>I think we should do some works =
for the related drafts to clarify this ambiguous/easy to be ignored =
definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><img width=3D818 height=3D316 =
id=3D"=E5=9B=BE=E7=89=87_x0020_3" =
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01D3CBFE.02902850"></span><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Best Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Network R&amp;D and Operation =
Support Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research =
Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>-----</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=
=B6</span><span lang=3DEN-US>-----<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US>: stefano previdi [mailto:stefano@previdi.net] =
<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=
=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US>: 2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>3</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 15:39<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US>: Peter Psenak<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>: lsr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Acee Lindem =
(acee); Aijun Wang<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
&quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment =
Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>me too. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>If we want to align the encoding, we should probably better =
align the protocol name directly...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>s.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; On Apr 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, =
Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ppsenak@cisco.com</span><=
/a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Speaking as WG member:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I couldn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to these =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; as a coauthor of the =
OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *From: *Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</spa=
n></a>&gt; on behalf of &quot;Ketan Talaulikar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; (ketant)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com</span></=
a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *To: *Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a>&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Hi Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I understand what you are referring to now, but =
these are not <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 =
different protocols. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Their encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses =
1 byte for <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; type/length and has LSP space constraints which =
you would notice in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t have the same challenge and you <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; would notice how its =
TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; similar to OSPF from =
these size constraints perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I do not see the implementation challenges in =
encoding from the two <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IGPs into BGP-LS. It =
does not make sense to change any of the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; protocol encodings that =
you ask for currently since implementations <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; have been shipping with =
them for many years.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IMHO it is not =
necessary to put such constraints for what you call =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>consistency</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
on these 3 protocol encodings in the future. However, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; we do try to be consistent in semantics as much as =
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *From:*Aijun Wang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Sent:* 02 April 2018 =
16:52<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com</span></=
a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
*Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Hi, Ketan:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; There is one two-bytes </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Reserved</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field in </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>Adjacency Segment =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Identifier</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
TLV for OSPF extension, but this field doesn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
exist in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; the corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every =
other fields are same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with =
OSPF(not similar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; with ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then =
when the router <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to =
BGP protocol, the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; router must add two bytes to the </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>length</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field and add/stuff the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>reserved</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need only copy the =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; corresponding fields =
according.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; We have found the error =
arises from this inconsistency from the real <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; router and think it is =
better to align this definition in different <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IGP =
protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Update to ISIS related =
extensions draft may be easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; China Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=9C=A8</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>2</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>18:26</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=EF=BC=8C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com%3cmailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com&lt;mailt=
o:ketant@cisco.com</span></a>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi =
Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Can =
you clarify what you mean by </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>inconsistencies</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Also, =
you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR =
draft. Please check<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-ex"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
tensions-11#section-6.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 OSPF and ISIS are different =
protocols and there are some differences<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS =
spec<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 refers to the individual IGP =
drafts for interpretation of flags. So<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
*From:*Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr-bounces@ietf.org&lt;m=
ailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt; =
*On<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Behalf Of *Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *Sent:* 02 April 2018 =
14:23<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 *To:* <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ls=
r@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
*Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
&quot;Adj-SID<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Hi, All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 We found there were some =
inconsistences for the definition of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>Adjacency Segment =
Identifier</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 segment routing, please see the =
link below for comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exten=
sion"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
s-15#section-2.2.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-ex"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
tensions-10#section-7.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Here we want to know is there =
any reason for this inconsistence? We<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 think =
this inconsistence can easily cause error for =
BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 implementation for segment =
routing extension, as that defined in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-2.2.1"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1</span></a>,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 which is similar with ISIS =
extension for SR, but different from OSPF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
extension for SR.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Do we =
need to make them consistent? It seems change the =
definition<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 in OSPF extension may be less =
influence for the existing related drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Network R&amp;D and Operation Support Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 China Telecom Corporation =
Limited Beijing Research<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Lsr =
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a =
href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org&lt;mailto:Ls=
r@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>, Jeffrey Haas <jhaas@pfrc.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 07:54:03 +0000
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References: <008101d3ca60$073f81b0$15be8510$@org.cn> <c5a4d1de5e7943318821018c138b5562@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <1B346347-9242-4EE4-BDA2-F024EF483B8A@tsinghua.org.cn> <aab65c5b06d346d2a5a4ef8cef5ad28b@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <8C26288C-54C3-4C04-91A6-2B99562A1DE9@cisco.com> <5AC32E8B.6090202@cisco.com> <CF9450C5-028B-4B29-9F3A-137254AFF320@previdi.net> <009b01d3cbbb$6bfc3510$43f49f30$@org.cn>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: RFC 8362 on OSPFv3 Link State Advertisement (LSA) Extensibility 
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Subject: [Lsr] RFC 8362 on OSPFv3 Link State Advertisement (LSA) Extensibility
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 19:26:20 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 19:39:25 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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From: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 20:03:13 +0000
Message-ID: <CAMj-N0Lph_AUFTpimu_YaM_XzxZm6-R1fbi35VziBMNpvEzEJA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/MTr1uNtpBgEEYjZOjXocqE3tFHY>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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I don=E2=80=99t see the big deal in having the WG name in the draft title, =
even for
category 1 documents.

It=E2=80=99s only the name of the draft and the fact that it is protocol sp=
ecific
doesn=E2=80=99t really need to be called out at that level.  People who rea=
d the
document will certainly figure it out.

Tony


On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 12:39 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feedback from th=
e
> WG.
>
> Combining IS-IS/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument there.
> But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:
>
> 1)Documents which are specific to a protocol (IS-IS or OSPFv2 or OSPFv3)
>
> 2)Documents which cover 2 or more protocols
>
> draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt is Category #1 - and there is NO
> CHANCE this document will EVER cover OSPF - since OSPF already has RFC 74=
71
> and this bis document is a correction to the IS-IS specific RFC7810.
> Calling it "-lsr-" to me is simply confusing as it in no way indicates th=
at
> it is IS-IS specific.
> I suggest that any document which falls into Category 1 should continue t=
o
> follow the traditional protocol specific naming.
> If this somehow violates some IETF rule then I suppose we could use
> "-lsr-isis-". (somewhat verbose)
>
> For Category 2 documents "-lsr-" certainly makes sense.
>
> Comments??
>
>    Les
>
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Acee Lindem (acee)
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 7:45 AM
> > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis=
-
> > rfc7810bis-00.txt
> >
> > Hi Les,
> >
> > Can you resubmit as draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc7810bis-00.txt? Also, please
> add a
> > "Changes from RFC 7810" section to the "Introduction". I see you have
> added
> > RFC8174 to the "Requirements Language" section already.
> >
> > I think we should accept this as an LSR Working Group document - does
> > anyone disagree?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Acee
> >
> > =EF=BB=BFOn 3/30/18, 6:39 PM, "Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)=
" <lsr-
> > bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
> >
> >     Folks -
> >
> >     A bis version of RFC 7810 has been submitted to address the issue
> reported
> > in Errata ID: 5293 https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D7=
810
> >
> >     Given that there exist implementations which have interpreted the
> > ambiguous encoding of some sub-TLVs in different/non-interoperable ways
> > it was felt that a bis version of the RFC was justified.
> >     Please see the Appendix of the draft for a discussion of the change=
s
> from
> > RFC 7810 and the reasons why.
> >
> >        Les
> >
> >
> >     -----Original Message-----
> >     From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
> >     Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 PM
> >     To: Qin Wu <sunseawq@huawei.com>; David Ward (wardd)
> > <wardd@cisco.com>; Spencer Giacolone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com>;
> > Spencer Giacalone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com>; John Drake
> > <ldrake@juniper.net>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>;
> David
> > Ward (wardd) <wardd@cisco.com>; Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
> >     Subject: New Version Notification for
> draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
> >
> >
> >     A new version of I-D, draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
> >     has been successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and posted to the
> IETF
> > repository.
> >
> >     Name:             draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis
> >     Revision: 00
> >     Title:            IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions
> >     Document date:    2018-03-30
> >     Group:            Individual Submission
> >     Pages:            19
> >     URL:
> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-isis-
> > rfc7810bis-00.txt
> >     Status:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis/
> >     Htmlized:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00
> >     Htmlized:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-
> > rfc7810bis
> >
> >
> >     Abstract:
> >        In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial
> >        information networks (e.g., stock market data providers), networ=
k-
> >        performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to
> >        data-path selection as other metrics.
> >
> >        This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering
> >        Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information
> can
> >        be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion.  The
> information
> >        distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used to
> make
> >        path-selection decisions based on network performance.
> >
> >        Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which
> >        network-performance information is distributed.  The mechanisms
> for
> >        measuring network performance or acting on that information, onc=
e
> >        distributed, are outside the scope of this document.
> >
> >        This document obsoletes RFC 7810.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
> tools.ietf.org.
> >
> >     The IETF Secretariat
> >
> >     _______________________________________________
> >     Lsr mailing list
> >     Lsr@ietf.org
> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

--001a1141d818ca54e105690b504d
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><div dir=3D"auto">I don=E2=80=99t see the =
big deal in having the WG name in the draft title, even for category 1 docu=
ments.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">It=E2=80=99s only=
 the name of the draft and the fact that it is protocol specific doesn=E2=
=80=99t really need to be called out at that level.=C2=A0 People who read t=
he document will certainly figure it out.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div>=
<div dir=3D"auto">Tony</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><br><div class=3D"g=
mail_quote"><div>On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 12:39 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &l=
t;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<b=
r></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border=
-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Well...this raises a topic on which =
I would like to have feedback from the WG.<br>
<br>
Combining IS-IS/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument there.<br=
>
But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:<br>
<br>
1)Documents which are specific to a protocol (IS-IS or OSPFv2 or OSPFv3)<br=
>
<br>
2)Documents which cover 2 or more protocols<br>
<br>
draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt is Category #1 - and there is NO CHAN=
CE this document will EVER cover OSPF - since OSPF already has RFC 7471 and=
 this bis document is a correction to the IS-IS specific RFC7810. Calling i=
t &quot;-lsr-&quot; to me is simply confusing as it in no way indicates tha=
t it is IS-IS specific.<br>
I suggest that any document which falls into Category 1 should continue to =
follow the traditional protocol specific naming.<br>
If this somehow violates some IETF rule then I suppose we could use &quot;-=
lsr-isis-&quot;. (somewhat verbose)<br>
<br>
For Category 2 documents &quot;-lsr-&quot; certainly makes sense.<br>
<br>
Comments??<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Les<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 7:45 AM<br>
&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.or=
g" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isi=
s-<br>
&gt; rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Les,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Can you resubmit as draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc7810bis-00.txt? Also, please=
 add a<br>
&gt; &quot;Changes from RFC 7810&quot; section to the &quot;Introduction&qu=
ot;. I see you have added<br>
&gt; RFC8174 to the &quot;Requirements Language&quot; section already.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think we should accept this as an LSR Working Group document - does<=
br>
&gt; anyone disagree?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Acee<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BFOn 3/30/18, 6:39 PM, &quot;Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (gin=
sberg)&quot; &lt;lsr-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">bounces@ietf.org=
</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">g=
insberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Folks -<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A bis version of RFC 7810 has been submitted to add=
ress the issue reported<br>
&gt; in Errata ID: 5293 <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search=
.php?rfc=3D7810" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.rfc-edito=
r.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D7810</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Given that there exist implementations which have i=
nterpreted the<br>
&gt; ambiguous encoding of some sub-TLVs in different/non-interoperable way=
s<br>
&gt; it was felt that a bis version of the RFC was justified.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please see the Appendix of the draft for a discussi=
on of the changes from<br>
&gt; RFC 7810 and the reasons why.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:interne=
t-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 PM<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Qin Wu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sunseawq@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank">sunseawq@huawei.com</a>&gt;; David Ward (wardd)<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wardd@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">wardd@cisco.c=
om</a>&gt;; Spencer Giacolone &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spencer.giacalone@gmail=
.com" target=3D"_blank">spencer.giacalone@gmail.com</a>&gt;;<br>
&gt; Spencer Giacalone &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spencer.giacalone@gmail.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">spencer.giacalone@gmail.com</a>&gt;; John Drake<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ldrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank">ldrake@jun=
iper.net</a>&gt;; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@ci=
sco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; David<br>
&gt; Ward (wardd) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wardd@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">=
wardd@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Stefano Previdi &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stefano@prev=
idi.net" target=3D"_blank">stefano@previdi.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ginsber=
g-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A new version of I-D, draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bi=
s-00.txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0has been successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and=
 posted to the IETF<br>
&gt; repository.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Revision: 00<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IS-=
IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2018-03-30<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ind=
ividual Submission<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 19<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-isis-" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsb=
erg-isis-</a><br>
&gt; rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D=
"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis/" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsber=
g-isis-rfc7810bis/</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00" rel=3D"noreferre=
r" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc781=
0bis-00</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-" rel=3D"noreferrer" =
target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis=
-</a><br>
&gt; rfc7810bis<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In certain networks, such as, but not limit=
ed to, financial<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information networks (e.g., stock market da=
ta providers), network-<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 performance criteria (e.g., latency) are be=
coming as critical to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 data-path selection as other metrics.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes extensions to IS-IS=
 Traffic Engineering<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-per=
formance information can<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be distributed and collected in a scalable =
fashion.=C2=A0 The information<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extension=
s can then be used to make<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 path-selection decisions based on network p=
erformance.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Note that this document only covers the mec=
hanisms with which<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 network-performance information is distribu=
ted.=C2=A0 The mechanisms for<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 measuring network performance or acting on =
that information, once<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 distributed, are outside the scope of this =
document.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document obsoletes RFC 7810.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please note that it may take a couple of minutes fr=
om the time of<br>
&gt; submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a hre=
f=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">tools.ietf=
.org</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The IETF Secretariat<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lsr mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">L=
sr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ls=
r" rel=3D"noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listin=
fo/lsr</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div></div>

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From: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 20:05:31 +0000
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To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, lsr@ietf.org, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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...and, probably, this draft won't stay a draft long enough for the problem
to have any sort of materialisation.

s.

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018, 10:03 PM Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li> wrote:

>
> I don=E2=80=99t see the big deal in having the WG name in the draft title=
, even
> for category 1 documents.
>
> It=E2=80=99s only the name of the draft and the fact that it is protocol =
specific
> doesn=E2=80=99t really need to be called out at that level.  People who r=
ead the
> document will certainly figure it out.
>
> Tony
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 12:39 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <
> ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feedback from
>> the WG.
>>
>> Combining IS-IS/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument there.
>> But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:
>>
>> 1)Documents which are specific to a protocol (IS-IS or OSPFv2 or OSPFv3)
>>
>> 2)Documents which cover 2 or more protocols
>>
>> draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt is Category #1 - and there is NO
>> CHANCE this document will EVER cover OSPF - since OSPF already has RFC 7=
471
>> and this bis document is a correction to the IS-IS specific RFC7810.
>> Calling it "-lsr-" to me is simply confusing as it in no way indicates t=
hat
>> it is IS-IS specific.
>> I suggest that any document which falls into Category 1 should continue
>> to follow the traditional protocol specific naming.
>> If this somehow violates some IETF rule then I suppose we could use
>> "-lsr-isis-". (somewhat verbose)
>>
>> For Category 2 documents "-lsr-" certainly makes sense.
>>
>> Comments??
>>
>>    Les
>>
>>
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: Acee Lindem (acee)
>> > Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 7:45 AM
>> > To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> > Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isi=
s-
>> > rfc7810bis-00.txt
>> >
>> > Hi Les,
>> >
>> > Can you resubmit as draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc7810bis-00.txt? Also, please
>> add a
>> > "Changes from RFC 7810" section to the "Introduction". I see you have
>> added
>> > RFC8174 to the "Requirements Language" section already.
>> >
>> > I think we should accept this as an LSR Working Group document - does
>> > anyone disagree?
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Acee
>> >
>> > =EF=BB=BFOn 3/30/18, 6:39 PM, "Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg=
)" <lsr-
>> > bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >     Folks -
>> >
>> >     A bis version of RFC 7810 has been submitted to address the issue
>> reported
>> > in Errata ID: 5293
>> https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D7810
>> <https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search..php?rfc=3D7810>
>> >
>> >     Given that there exist implementations which have interpreted the
>> > ambiguous encoding of some sub-TLVs in different/non-interoperable way=
s
>> > it was felt that a bis version of the RFC was justified.
>> >     Please see the Appendix of the draft for a discussion of the
>> changes from
>> > RFC 7810 and the reasons why.
>> >
>> >        Les
>> >
>> >
>> >     -----Original Message-----
>> >     From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> >     Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 PM
>> >     To: Qin Wu <sunseawq@huawei.com>; David Ward (wardd)
>> > <wardd@cisco.com>; Spencer Giacolone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com
>> <spencer.giacalone@gmail..com>>;
>> > Spencer Giacalone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com>; John Drake
>> > <ldrake@juniper.net>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>;
>> David
>> > Ward (wardd) <wardd@cisco.com>; Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
>> >     Subject: New Version Notification for
>> draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
>> >
>> >
>> >     A new version of I-D, draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
>> >     has been successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and posted to the
>> IETF
>> > repository.
>> >
>> >     Name:             draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis
>> >     Revision: 00
>> >     Title:            IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions
>> >     Document date:    2018-03-30
>> >     Group:            Individual Submission
>> >     Pages:            19
>> >     URL:
>> https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-isis-
>> > rfc7810bis-00.txt
>> >     Status:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis/
>> >     Htmlized:
>> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00
>> >     Htmlized:
>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-
>> > rfc7810bis
>> >
>> >
>> >     Abstract:
>> >        In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial
>> >        information networks (e.g., stock market data providers),
>> network-
>> >        performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical t=
o
>> >        data-path selection as other metrics.
>> >
>> >        This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering
>> >        Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information
>> can
>> >        be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion.  The
>> information
>> >        distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used t=
o
>> make
>> >        path-selection decisions based on network performance.
>> >
>> >        Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which
>> >        network-performance information is distributed.  The mechanisms
>> for
>> >        measuring network performance or acting on that information, on=
ce
>> >        distributed, are outside the scope of this document.
>> >
>> >        This document obsoletes RFC 7810.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> > submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at
>> tools.ietf..org <http://tools.ietf.org>.
>> >
>> >     The IETF Secretariat
>> >
>> >     _______________________________________________
>> >     Lsr mailing list
>> >     Lsr@ietf.org
>> >     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"auto">...and, probably, this draft won&#39;t stay a draft long =
enough for the problem to have any sort of materialisation.<div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">s.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">=
<div dir=3D"ltr">On Wed, Apr 4, 2018, 10:03 PM Tony Li &lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:tony.li@tony.li">tony.li@tony.li</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div><div dir=3D"auto">I don=E2=
=80=99t see the big deal in having the WG name in the draft title, even for=
 category 1 documents.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">I=
t=E2=80=99s only the name of the draft and the fact that it is protocol spe=
cific doesn=E2=80=99t really need to be called out at that level.=C2=A0 Peo=
ple who read the document will certainly figure it out.</div><div dir=3D"au=
to"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Tony</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><br><=
div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div>On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 12:39 PM Les Ginsberg=
 (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=
=3D"noreferrer">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote clas=
s=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;pad=
ding-left:1ex">Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have fee=
dback from the WG.<br>
<br>
Combining IS-IS/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument there.<br=
>
But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:<br>
<br>
1)Documents which are specific to a protocol (IS-IS or OSPFv2 or OSPFv3)<br=
>
<br>
2)Documents which cover 2 or more protocols<br>
<br>
draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt is Category #1 - and there is NO CHAN=
CE this document will EVER cover OSPF - since OSPF already has RFC 7471 and=
 this bis document is a correction to the IS-IS specific RFC7810. Calling i=
t &quot;-lsr-&quot; to me is simply confusing as it in no way indicates tha=
t it is IS-IS specific.<br>
I suggest that any document which falls into Category 1 should continue to =
follow the traditional protocol specific naming.<br>
If this somehow violates some IETF rule then I suppose we could use &quot;-=
lsr-isis-&quot;. (somewhat verbose)<br>
<br>
For Category 2 documents &quot;-lsr-&quot; certainly makes sense.<br>
<br>
Comments??<br>
<br>
=C2=A0 =C2=A0Les<br>
<br>
<br>
&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>
&gt; From: Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
&gt; Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 7:45 AM<br>
&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;; <a href=3D=
"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">lsr@ietf.org</a>=
<br>
&gt; Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isi=
s-<br>
&gt; rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Les,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Can you resubmit as draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc7810bis-00.txt? Also, please=
 add a<br>
&gt; &quot;Changes from RFC 7810&quot; section to the &quot;Introduction&qu=
ot;. I see you have added<br>
&gt; RFC8174 to the &quot;Requirements Language&quot; section already.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I think we should accept this as an LSR Working Group document - does<=
br>
&gt; anyone disagree?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thanks,<br>
&gt; Acee<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; =EF=BB=BFOn 3/30/18, 6:39 PM, &quot;Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (gin=
sberg)&quot; &lt;lsr-<br>
&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferre=
r">bounces@ietf.org</a> on behalf of <a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Folks -<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A bis version of RFC 7810 has been submitted to add=
ress the issue reported<br>
&gt; in Errata ID: 5293 <a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search=
..php?rfc=3D7810" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://w=
ww.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D7810</a><br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Given that there exist implementations which have i=
nterpreted the<br>
&gt; ambiguous encoding of some sub-TLVs in different/non-interoperable way=
s<br>
&gt; it was felt that a bis version of the RFC was justified.<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please see the Appendix of the draft for a discussi=
on of the changes from<br>
&gt; RFC 7810 and the reasons why.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Les<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0-----Original Message-----<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0From: <a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">internet-drafts@ietf.org</a> &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">=
internet-drafts@ietf.org</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 PM<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0To: Qin Wu &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:sunseawq@huawei.co=
m" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">sunseawq@huawei.com</a>&gt;; David =
Ward (wardd)<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wardd@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"norefe=
rrer">wardd@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Spencer Giacolone &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spen=
cer.giacalone@gmail..com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">spencer.giac=
alone@gmail.com</a>&gt;;<br>
&gt; Spencer Giacalone &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:spencer.giacalone@gmail.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">spencer.giacalone@gmail.com</a>&gt;; Jo=
hn Drake<br>
&gt; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ldrake@juniper.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer">ldrake@juniper.net</a>&gt;; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ginsberg@c=
isco.com</a>&gt;; David<br>
&gt; Ward (wardd) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wardd@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" =
rel=3D"noreferrer">wardd@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Stefano Previdi &lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:stefano@previdi.net" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">stefano@pr=
evidi.net</a>&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ginsber=
g-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0A new version of I-D, draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bi=
s-00.txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0has been successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and=
 posted to the IETF<br>
&gt; repository.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Name:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=
=A0draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Revision: 00<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Title:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 IS-=
IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Document date:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 2018-03-30<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Group:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Ind=
ividual Submission<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Pages:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 19<=
br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0URL:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 <a hr=
ef=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-isis-" rel=3D"nor=
eferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/=
draft-ginsberg-isis-</a><br>
&gt; rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Status:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D=
"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis/" rel=3D"n=
oreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/dr=
aft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis/</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http=
s://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00" rel=3D"noreferre=
r noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-=
isis-rfc7810bis-00</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Htmlized:=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"http=
s://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-" rel=3D"noreferrer n=
oreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-gi=
nsberg-isis-</a><br>
&gt; rfc7810bis<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Abstract:<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 In certain networks, such as, but not limit=
ed to, financial<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 information networks (e.g., stock market da=
ta providers), network-<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 performance criteria (e.g., latency) are be=
coming as critical to<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 data-path selection as other metrics.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document describes extensions to IS-IS=
 Traffic Engineering<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-per=
formance information can<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 be distributed and collected in a scalable =
fashion.=C2=A0 The information<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extension=
s can then be used to make<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 path-selection decisions based on network p=
erformance.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 Note that this document only covers the mec=
hanisms with which<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 network-performance information is distribu=
ted.=C2=A0 The mechanisms for<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 measuring network performance or acting on =
that information, once<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 distributed, are outside the scope of this =
document.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0 This document obsoletes RFC 7810.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Please note that it may take a couple of minutes fr=
om the time of<br>
&gt; submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at <a hre=
f=3D"http://tools.ietf.org" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank"=
>tools.ietf..org</a>.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0The IETF Secretariat<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0_______________________________________________<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0Lsr mailing list<br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" r=
el=3D"noreferrer">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
&gt;=C2=A0 =C2=A0 =C2=A0<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ls=
r" rel=3D"noreferrer noreferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mai=
lman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Lsr@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br=
>
</blockquote></div></div>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">Lsr@ie=
tf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer nor=
eferrer" target=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br=
>
</blockquote></div>

--94eb2c0b7cf4075db705690b5922--


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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2018 13:57:30 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <6304AF65-771B-46E8-8CBA-F62FD5A12BFB@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
References: <303B9428-1EF5-417C-8223-DCB34440677B@cisco.com> <69468450ae0141098f7579d630b9cd33@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <CAMj-N0Lph_AUFTpimu_YaM_XzxZm6-R1fbi35VziBMNpvEzEJA@mail.gmail.com> <9469617E-7079-4374-86D7-A3EC721834F4@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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+1

=20

I=E2=80=99d think the below would work:

lsr for #2

lsr-ospf(ospfv3) / lsr-isis for #1=20

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@ci=
sco.com>
Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2018 at 13:27
To: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.co=
m>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc=
7810bis-00.txt

=20

I think the WG name should be in the expected place in the file name. I see=
m to remember some drafts with -bgp- rather than -idr- that flew under the r=
adar for a while.=20

Thanks,
Acee

=20

From: Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
Date: Wednesday, April 4, 2018 at 4:03 PM
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc=
7810bis-00.txt

=20

=20

I don=E2=80=99t see the big deal in having the WG name in the draft title, even f=
or category 1 documents.

=20

It=E2=80=99s only the name of the draft and the fact that it is protocol specific=
 doesn=E2=80=99t really need to be called out at that level.  People who read the =
document will certainly figure it out.

=20

Tony

=20

=20

On Wed, Apr 4, 2018 at 12:39 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
> wrote:

Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feedback from the =
WG.

Combining IS-IS/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument there.
But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:

1)Documents which are specific to a protocol (IS-IS or OSPFv2 or OSPFv3)

2)Documents which cover 2 or more protocols

draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt is Category #1 - and there is NO CHAN=
CE this document will EVER cover OSPF - since OSPF already has RFC 7471 and =
this bis document is a correction to the IS-IS specific RFC7810. Calling it =
"-lsr-" to me is simply confusing as it in no way indicates that it is IS-IS=
 specific.
I suggest that any document which falls into Category 1 should continue to =
follow the traditional protocol specific naming.
If this somehow violates some IETF rule then I suppose we could use "-lsr-i=
sis-". (somewhat verbose)

For Category 2 documents "-lsr-" certainly makes sense.

Comments??

   Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Acee Lindem (acee)
> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 7:45 AM
> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-
> rfc7810bis-00.txt
>
> Hi Les,
>
> Can you resubmit as draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc7810bis-00.txt? Also, please ad=
d a
> "Changes from RFC 7810" section to the "Introduction". I see you have add=
ed
> RFC8174 to the "Requirements Language" section already.
>
> I think we should accept this as an LSR Working Group document - does
> anyone disagree?
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> On 3/30/18, 6:39 PM, "Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <lsr-
> bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>     Folks -
>
>     A bis version of RFC 7810 has been submitted to address the issue rep=
orted
> in Errata ID: 5293 https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D7810
>
>     Given that there exist implementations which have interpreted the
> ambiguous encoding of some sub-TLVs in different/non-interoperable ways
> it was felt that a bis version of the RFC was justified.
>     Please see the Appendix of the draft for a discussion of the changes =
from
> RFC 7810 and the reasons why.
>
>        Les
>
>
>     -----Original Message-----
>     From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>     Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 PM
>     To: Qin Wu <sunseawq@huawei.com>; David Ward (wardd)
> <wardd@cisco.com>; Spencer Giacolone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com>;
> Spencer Giacalone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com>; John Drake
> <ldrake@juniper.net>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; David
> Ward (wardd) <wardd@cisco.com>; Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
>     Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-=
00.txt
>
>
>     A new version of I-D, draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
>     has been successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and posted to the IET=
F
> repository.
>
>     Name:             draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis
>     Revision: 00
>     Title:            IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions
>     Document date:    2018-03-30
>     Group:            Individual Submission
>     Pages:            19
>     URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-i=
sis-
> rfc7810bis-00.txt
>     Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-isis-=
rfc7810bis/
>     Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc78=
10bis-00
>     Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-=
isis-
> rfc7810bis
>
>
>     Abstract:
>        In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial
>        information networks (e.g., stock market data providers), network-
>        performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to
>        data-path selection as other metrics.
>
>        This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering
>        Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information ca=
n
>        be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion.  The informati=
on
>        distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used to m=
ake
>        path-selection decisions based on network performance.
>
>        Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which
>        network-performance information is distributed.  The mechanisms fo=
r
>        measuring network performance or acting on that information, once
>        distributed, are outside the scope of this document.
>
>        This document obsoletes RFC 7810.
>
>
>
>
>
>     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.iet=
f.org.
>
>     The IETF Secretariat
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Lsr mailing list
>     Lsr@ietf.org
>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

_______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.o=
rg https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=20


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ction1><p class=3DMsoNormal>+1<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o=
:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>I=E2=80=99d think the below would work:<o:p></o:p></p><p=
 class=3DMsoNormal>lsr for #2<o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>lsr-ospf(ospfv3=
) / lsr-isis for #1 <o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p><=
div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></=
p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'color:black'>Jeff</span><o:p></o:p><=
/p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Fr=
om: </span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Lsr &lt;lsr-bounce=
s@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee@cisco.co=
m&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 4, 2018 at 13:27<br><b>To: </b>Tony L=
i &lt;tony.li@tony.li&gt;, &quot;Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)&quot; &lt;ginsberg@=
cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;lsr@ietf.org&quot; &lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br=
><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-i=
sis-rfc7810bis-00.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><o:=
p>&nbsp;</o:p></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>I =
think the WG name should be in the expected place in the file name. I seem t=
o remember some drafts with -bgp- rather than -idr- that flew under the rada=
r for a while. </span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:16.0pt'>Thanks,<br>Acee</span><o:p></o:p></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></p><div style=3D'border:none;bo=
rder-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal s=
tyle=3D'margin-left:.5in'><b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>From: =
</span></b><span style=3D'font-size:12.0pt;color:black'>Tony Li &lt;tony.li@to=
ny.li&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, April 4, 2018 at 4:03 PM<br><b>To: </b>=
&quot;Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)&quot; &lt;ginsberg@cisco.com&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b=
>Acee Lindem &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, &quot;lsr@ietf.org&quot; &lt;lsr@ietf.o=
rg&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-g=
insberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoN=
ormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><a name=3D"_MailOriginalBody">&nbsp;<o:p></o:p>=
</a></p></div><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span st=
yle=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>I don=E2=80=99t see the big deal in having th=
e WG name in the draft title, even for category 1 documents.<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'ms=
o-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p clas=
s=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginal=
Body'>It=E2=80=99s only the name of the draft and the fact that it is protocol spe=
cific doesn=E2=80=99t really need to be called out at that level.&nbsp; People who=
 read the document will certainly figure it out.<o:p></o:p></span></p></div>=
<div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_=
MailOriginalBody'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>Tony<o=
:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><=
span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p></di=
v><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mai=
lOriginalBody'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal styl=
e=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>On Wed, Ap=
r 4, 2018 at 12:39 PM Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:gin=
sberg@cisco.com"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>ginsberg@cisco=
.com</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span sty=
le=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><=
blockquote style=3D'border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0in 0i=
n 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-botto=
m:5.0pt'><p class=3DMsoNormal style=3D'margin-left:.5in'><span style=3D'mso-bookma=
rk:_MailOriginalBody'>Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to ha=
ve feedback from the WG.<br><br>Combining IS-IS/OSPF into one working group =
is fine - no argument there.<br>But, we now may be producing two classes of =
documents:<br><br>1)Documents which are specific to a protocol (IS-IS or OSP=
Fv2 or OSPFv3)<br><br>2)Documents which cover 2 or more protocols<br><br>dra=
ft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt is Category #1 - and there is NO CHANCE t=
his document will EVER cover OSPF - since OSPF already has RFC 7471 and this=
 bis document is a correction to the IS-IS specific RFC7810. Calling it &quo=
t;-lsr-&quot; to me is simply confusing as it in no way indicates that it is=
 IS-IS specific.<br>I suggest that any document which falls into Category 1 =
should continue to follow the traditional protocol specific naming.<br>If th=
is somehow violates some IETF rule then I suppose we could use &quot;-lsr-is=
is-&quot;. (somewhat verbose)<br><br>For Category 2 documents &quot;-lsr-&qu=
ot; certainly makes sense.<br><br>Comments??<br><br>&nbsp; &nbsp;Les<br><br>=
<br>&gt; -----Original Message-----<br>&gt; From: Acee Lindem (acee)<br>&gt;=
 Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 7:45 AM<br>&gt; To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &=
lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'm=
so-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>ginsberg@cisco.com</span><span style=3D'mso-boo=
kmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalB=
ody'>&gt;; </span><a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D=
'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>lsr@ietf.org</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmar=
k:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'=
><br>&gt; Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg=
-isis-<br>&gt; rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Hi Les,<br>&gt;<br>&gt; Can=
 you resubmit as draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc7810bis-00.txt? Also, please add a<br=
>&gt; &quot;Changes from RFC 7810&quot; section to the &quot;Introduction&qu=
ot;. I see you have added<br>&gt; RFC8174 to the &quot;Requirements Language=
&quot; section already.<br>&gt;<br>&gt; I think we should accept this as an =
LSR Working Group document - does<br>&gt; anyone disagree?<br>&gt;<br>&gt; T=
hanks,<br>&gt; Acee<br>&gt;<br>&gt; On 3/30/18, 6:39 PM, &quot;Lsr on behalf=
 of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)&quot; &lt;lsr-<br>&gt; </span><a href=3D"mailto:bo=
unces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'=
>bounces@ietf.org</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span>=
</a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'> on behalf of </span><a hre=
f=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mai=
lOriginalBody'>ginsberg@cisco.com</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOrigi=
nalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt; wrote:=
<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Folks -<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp;A bis version of RFC 7810 has been submitted to address the issue reporte=
d<br>&gt; in Errata ID: 5293 </span><a href=3D"https://www.rfc-editor.org/erra=
ta_search.php?rfc=3D7810" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOrigi=
nalBody'>https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=3D7810</span><span s=
tyle=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_=
MailOriginalBody'><br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Given that there exist=
 implementations which have interpreted the<br>&gt; ambiguous encoding of so=
me sub-TLVs in different/non-interoperable ways<br>&gt; it was felt that a b=
is version of the RFC was justified.<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Please see t=
he Appendix of the draft for a discussion of the changes from<br>&gt; RFC 78=
10 and the reasons why.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Les<br>&g=
t;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;-----Original Message-----<br>&gt;&nbs=
p; &nbsp; &nbsp;From: </span><a href=3D"mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org" targe=
t=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>internet-drafts@ietf=
.org</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span sty=
le=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'> &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:internet-dra=
fts@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>i=
nternet-drafts@ietf.org</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><=
/span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp;Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 PM<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;T=
o: Qin Wu &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:sunseawq@huawei.com" target=3D"_blank"><s=
pan style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>sunseawq@huawei.com</span><span s=
tyle=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_=
MailOriginalBody'>&gt;; David Ward (wardd)<br>&gt; &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailt=
o:wardd@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBo=
dy'>wardd@cisco.com</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></spa=
n></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt;; Spencer Giacolone &=
lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:spencer.giacalone@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span=
 style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>spencer.giacalone@gmail.com</span><s=
pan style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookm=
ark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt;;<br>&gt; Spencer Giacalone &lt;</span><a href=3D"m=
ailto:spencer.giacalone@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark=
:_MailOriginalBody'>spencer.giacalone@gmail.com</span><span style=3D'mso-bookm=
ark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBod=
y'>&gt;; John Drake<br>&gt; &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:ldrake@juniper.net" t=
arget=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>ldrake@juniper.n=
et</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=
=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt;; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;</span><=
a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark=
:_MailOriginalBody'>ginsberg@cisco.com</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mail=
OriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt;; =
David<br>&gt; Ward (wardd) &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:wardd@cisco.com" targe=
t=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>wardd@cisco.com</spa=
n><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-b=
ookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt;; Stefano Previdi &lt;</span><a href=3D"mailto:=
stefano@previdi.net" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginal=
Body'>stefano@previdi.net</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'=
></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp;Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc78=
10bis-00.txt<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;A new version of I-D=
, draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;has been =
successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and posted to the IETF<br>&gt; reposi=
tory.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Name:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;=
Revision: 00<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Title:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp; IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions<br>&gt;&nbsp; &=
nbsp; &nbsp;Document date:&nbsp; &nbsp; 2018-03-30<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;Group:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Individual Submission<br>&=
gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Pages:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 19<br=
>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;URL:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; </spa=
n><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-isis-" target=
=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>https://www.ietf.org/=
internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-isis-</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOr=
iginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><br>&gt;=
 rfc7810bis-00.txt<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Status:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &n=
bsp; &nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-i=
sis-rfc7810bis/" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody=
'>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis/</span><sp=
an style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookma=
rk:_MailOriginalBody'><br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp; &nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rf=
c7810bis-00" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>ht=
tps://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00</span><span styl=
e=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mai=
lOriginalBody'><br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Htmlized:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nb=
sp;</span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis=
-" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>https://data=
tracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-</span><span style=3D'mso-bookma=
rk:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody=
'><br>&gt; rfc7810bis<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Abstract:<b=
r>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; In certain networks, such as, but not limi=
ted to, financial<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; information networks (e=
.g., stock market data providers), network-<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p; performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to<br>&gt;&=
nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; data-path selection as other metrics.<br>&gt;<br>=
&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document describes extensions to IS-IS =
Traffic Engineering<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Extensions (RFC 5305)=
 such that network-performance information can<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &=
nbsp; be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion.&nbsp; The informat=
ion<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Ext=
ensions can then be used to make<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; path-sel=
ection decisions based on network performance.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; =
&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which<=
br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; network-performance information is distri=
buted.&nbsp; The mechanisms for<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; measuring=
 network performance or acting on that information, once<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp=
; &nbsp; &nbsp; distributed, are outside the scope of this document.<br>&gt;=
<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; This document obsoletes RFC 7810.<br>&gt=
;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Please note tha=
t it may take a couple of minutes from the time of<br>&gt; submission until =
the htmlized version and diff are available at </span><a href=3D"http://tools.=
ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>tools=
.ietf.org</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><spa=
n style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>.<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbs=
p;The IETF Secretariat<br>&gt;<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;__________________=
_____________________________<br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;Lsr mailing list<br=
>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank=
"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>Lsr@ietf.org</span><span styl=
e=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mai=
lOriginalBody'><br>&gt;&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;</span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.=
org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOri=
ginalBody'>https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</span><span style=3D'mso-=
bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOrigin=
alBody'><br>&gt;<br><br>_______________________________________________<br>L=
sr mailing list<br></span><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank"><spa=
n style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>Lsr@ietf.org</span><span style=3D'mso=
-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOrigi=
nalBody'><br></span><a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" targ=
et=3D"_blank"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>https://www.ietf.or=
g/mailman/listinfo/lsr</span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></=
span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><o:p></o:p></span></p>=
</blockquote></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailO=
riginalBody'>_______________________________________________ Lsr mailing lis=
t Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr </span><o:p></o:p><=
/p></div></body></html>

--B_3605695052_2071492309--



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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
Thread-Index: AQHTy1pTDYQOpMXw80qZxNEhmGwTFaPw/uwggABeHYCAAAbEAIAACGcA//+xPrA=
Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 21:18:01 +0000
Message-ID: <54c850e7622e46388cc52ac25b251c6a@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com>
References: <303B9428-1EF5-417C-8223-DCB34440677B@cisco.com> <69468450ae0141098f7579d630b9cd33@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <CAMj-N0Lph_AUFTpimu_YaM_XzxZm6-R1fbi35VziBMNpvEzEJA@mail.gmail.com> <9469617E-7079-4374-86D7-A3EC721834F4@cisco.com> <6304AF65-771B-46E8-8CBA-F62FD5A12BFB@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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--_000_54c850e7622e46388cc52ac25b251c6aXCHALN001ciscocom_--


From nobody Thu Apr  5 07:32:17 2018
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From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
To: "Les Ginsberg \(ginsberg\)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem \(acee\)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr\@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2018 10:32:10 -0400
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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I think that the only time we should include the protocol (in addition to '-lsr-') is if we have split documents (for whatever reason) on the same solution. We have an example of this actually:

    draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-09
    draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-09

Going forward we either combine these types of documents into a single document (discussion started @101) so "-lsr-" is appropriate, or if there's some reason not to merge them then we have 2 documents that need the protocol identifier to disambiguate.

In this case there's no ambiguity so I don't see the need of adding an extra "-isis-".

Thanks,
Chris.

Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> writes:

> Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feedback from the WG.
>
> Combining IS-IS/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument there.
> But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:
>
> 1)Documents which are specific to a protocol (IS-IS or OSPFv2 or OSPFv3)
>
> 2)Documents which cover 2 or more protocols
>
> draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt is Category #1 - and there is NO CHANCE this document will EVER cover OSPF - since OSPF already has RFC 7471 and this bis document is a correction to the IS-IS specific RFC7810. Calling it "-lsr-" to me is simply confusing as it in no way indicates that it is IS-IS specific.
> I suggest that any document which falls into Category 1 should continue to follow the traditional protocol specific naming.
> If this somehow violates some IETF rule then I suppose we could use "-lsr-isis-". (somewhat verbose)
>
> For Category 2 documents "-lsr-" certainly makes sense.
>
> Comments??
>
>    Les
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Acee Lindem (acee)
>> Sent: Tuesday, April 03, 2018 7:45 AM
>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-
>> rfc7810bis-00.txt
>>
>> Hi Les,
>>
>> Can you resubmit as draft-ginsberg-lsr-rfc7810bis-00.txt? Also, please add a
>> "Changes from RFC 7810" section to the "Introduction". I see you have added
>> RFC8174 to the "Requirements Language" section already.
>>
>> I think we should accept this as an LSR Working Group document - does
>> anyone disagree?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> ﻿On 3/30/18, 6:39 PM, "Lsr on behalf of Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <lsr-
>> bounces@ietf.org on behalf of ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
>>
>>     Folks -
>>
>>     A bis version of RFC 7810 has been submitted to address the issue reported
>> in Errata ID: 5293 https://www.rfc-editor.org/errata_search.php?rfc=7810
>>
>>     Given that there exist implementations which have interpreted the
>> ambiguous encoding of some sub-TLVs in different/non-interoperable ways
>> it was felt that a bis version of the RFC was justified.
>>     Please see the Appendix of the draft for a discussion of the changes from
>> RFC 7810 and the reasons why.
>>
>>        Les
>>
>>
>>     -----Original Message-----
>>     From: internet-drafts@ietf.org <internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>>     Sent: Friday, March 30, 2018 3:33 PM
>>     To: Qin Wu <sunseawq@huawei.com>; David Ward (wardd)
>> <wardd@cisco.com>; Spencer Giacolone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com>;
>> Spencer Giacalone <spencer.giacalone@gmail.com>; John Drake
>> <ldrake@juniper.net>; Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; David
>> Ward (wardd) <wardd@cisco.com>; Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
>>     Subject: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
>>
>>
>>     A new version of I-D, draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
>>     has been successfully submitted by Les Ginsberg and posted to the IETF
>> repository.
>>
>>     Name:		draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis
>>     Revision:	00
>>     Title:		IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions
>>     Document date:	2018-03-30
>>     Group:		Individual Submission
>>     Pages:		19
>>     URL:            https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-ginsberg-isis-
>> rfc7810bis-00.txt
>>     Status:         https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis/
>>     Htmlized:       https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00
>>     Htmlized:       https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ginsberg-isis-
>> rfc7810bis
>>
>>
>>     Abstract:
>>        In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial
>>        information networks (e.g., stock market data providers), network-
>>        performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to
>>        data-path selection as other metrics.
>>
>>        This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering
>>        Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information can
>>        be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion.  The information
>>        distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used to make
>>        path-selection decisions based on network performance.
>>
>>        Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which
>>        network-performance information is distributed.  The mechanisms for
>>        measuring network performance or acting on that information, once
>>        distributed, are outside the scope of this document.
>>
>>        This document obsoletes RFC 7810.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>     Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>>
>>     The IETF Secretariat
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Lsr mailing list
>>     Lsr@ietf.org
>>     https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: "Van De Velde, Gunter (Nokia - BE/Antwerp)" <gunter.van_de_velde@nokia.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
CC: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2018 16:26:31 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF
        Authors         : Jeff Tantsura
                          Uma Chunduri
                          Sam Aldrin
                          Peter Psenak
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2018-04-05

Abstract:
   This document defines a way for an OSPF Router to advertise multiple
   types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link
   granularity.  Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized
   controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack can be
   supported in a given network.  This document only defines one type of
   MSD maximum label imposition, but defines an encoding which can
   support other MSD types.  Here the term OSPF means both OSPFv2 and
   OSPFv3.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Thread-Topic: LSR WG IPR Query for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
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Thread-Topic: LSR WG IPR Query for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt (one more @#$ time)
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Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Query for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt (one more @#$ time)
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 5:26 PM

> Chris -
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
> > Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 7:32 AM
> >
> > I think that the only time we should include the protocol (in
addition to '-lsr-')
> > is if we have split documents (for whatever reason) on the same
solution.
> > We have an example of this actually:
> >
> >     draft-ietf-xxxx-segment-routing-msd-09
> >     draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-09
> >
> > Going forward we either combine these types of documents into a
single
> > document (discussion started @101) so "-lsr-" is appropriate, or if
there's
> > some reason not to merge them then we have 2 documents that need the
> > protocol identifier to disambiguate.
> >
> > In this case there's no ambiguity so I don't see the need of adding
an extra "-
> > isis-".
> [Les:] RFC 7810 is xxxx specific.
> There is a separate document for equivalent OSPF functionality (RFC
7471).
>
> My point is - the reader should not have to go through the body of the
document to find out that the document is specific to a particular
protocol. The document name (which is preserved in the text even when it
becomes an RFC) should make that clear.
>

I agree.

>From a purely personal point of view, I track OSPF but have no interest
in the other protocol (mention of which causes my ISP to blackhole my
e-mail).  I filter the I-D announce list and will see notification of
any I-D with OSPF in the title - any without OSPF in the title will pass
under the radar.

Tom Petch

>    Les
>
> > Thanks,
> > Chris.
> >
> > Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> writes:
> >
> > > Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feedback
from the
> > WG.
> > >
> > > Combining xxxx/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument
there.
> > > But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:
> > >


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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
References: <B2F48CF9-4853-479D-BAD9-4A4AD7088375@cisco.com>
From: Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>
Organization: Cisco Systems
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Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 13:32:23 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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    Hi Acee,
    my answers below (I didn't vet them with other authors, so they may 
express different opinions).

 >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For example: “OSPF
 >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?

    Your proposed variant drops two pieces: "Routing with" and "MPLS". 
Dropping mention to MPLS is fine with me. Dropping "Routing with" seems 
to me less correct because the draft is about ways to compute routes and 
not about setting up/managing tunnels.
    But ultimately I have no strong feelings here and if there is a 
requirement to shorten document's name then that would be a good candidate.


 >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC 8174 
version?

    OK, we will publish new document revision when we agreed on other 
points.


 >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
 >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area of local
 >     IP address?

    Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area borders are 
laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that router is 
ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective this, of 
course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.


 >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also discuss the
 >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints? Also state
 >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the endpoints are
 >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or describe the
 >     behavior if this is not the intension.

    We can add paragraph saying something like:
"In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST 
advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that will 
perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both tunnel headend 
and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing XAF 
routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other routers 
in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or interpret Node 
Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels signaled 
by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route computation in 
OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as tunnel 
endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."

Will this text work?

---
Anton


On 04/04/18 20:13, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Anton, Alvaro, and Mike,
> 
> In preparation for WG last call, I have a couple comments.
> 
>  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For example: “OSPF
>     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC 8174 version?
>  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area of local
>     IP address?
>  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also discuss the
>     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints? Also state
>     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the endpoints are
>     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or describe the
>     behavior if this is not the intension.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Acee
> 


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Hi Tony,

while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized 
computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:

1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding 
dependent on the flooded data itself.

2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the 
convergence towards the new "flooding topology".

Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology" 
using some standardized algorithm?

Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node can 
advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" algorithm is 
selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all nodes in 
the flooding domain select the same one.

thanks,
Peter



On 27/03/18 18:07 , tony.li@tony.li wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I’ve submitted an updated version of my draft.  Several changes:
>
> - This collapses the two documents into one, so IS-IS is now included.
>   Placeholders are there for OSPF.
> - I’ve expanded the discussion of failure modes.
> - Minor bug fixes.
>
> Your comments are solicited…
>
> Tony
>
>
>> Begin forwarded message:
>>
>> *From: *internet-drafts@ietf.org <mailto:internet-drafts@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: **New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt*
>> *Date: *March 27, 2018 at 9:01:30 AM PDT
>> *To: *"Tony Li" <tony.li@tony.li <mailto:tony.li@tony.li>>
>>
>>
>> A new version of I-D, draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
>> has been successfully submitted by Tony Li and posted to the
>> IETF repository.
>>
>> Name:draft-li-dynamic-flooding
>> Revision:04
>> Title:Dynamic Flooding on Dense Graphs
>> Document date:2018-03-26
>> Group:Individual Submission
>> Pages:17
>> URL: https://www.ietf.org/internet-drafts/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
>> Status: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-li-dynamic-flooding/
>> Htmlized: https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04
>> Htmlized: https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-li-dynamic-flooding
>> Diff: https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04
>>
>> Abstract:
>>   Routing with link state protocols in dense network topologies can
>>   result in sub-optimal convergence times due to the overhead
>>   associated with flooding.  This can be addressed by decreasing the
>>   flooding topology so that it is less dense.
>>
>>   This document discusses the problem in some depth and an
>>   architectural solution.  Specific protocol changes for IS-IS, OSPFv2,
>>   and OSPFv3 are described in this document.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of
>> submission
>> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org
>> <http://tools.ietf.org>.
>>
>> The IETF Secretariat
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


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Hi Peter,

Thank you for your comments.

> while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized =
computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:
>=20
> 1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding =
dependent on the flooded data itself.


Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that =
would certainly be a bug.=20


> 2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the =
convergence towards the new "flooding topology=E2=80=9D.


Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology =
failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.


> Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology" =
using some standardized algorithm?


Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical =
issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?=20

There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology might =
be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk =
tolerances.=20

Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between =
two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to =
detect until there is a catastrophic failure.

I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing =
this in a centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust =
way forward.


> Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node can =
advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" algorithm is =
selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all nodes in =
the flooding domain select the same one.


Seems like that would also require some administrative input.

So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think =
that there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer =
to focus on something that we can implement more quickly.

Tony



--Apple-Mail=_D8D63913-B3F6-4BDB-9E5E-4D30811421DE
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	charset=utf-8

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; =
charset=3Dutf-8"></head><body style=3D"word-wrap: break-word; =
-webkit-nbsp-mode: space; line-break: after-white-space;" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""></div>Hi Peter,<div class=3D""><br =
class=3D""></div><div class=3D"">Thank you for your comments.</div><div =
class=3D""><br class=3D""><div><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div =
class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none; float: none; display: inline !important;" class=3D"">while I =
appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized computation =
of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">1. "flooding topology" must be =
flooded. This makes the flooding dependent on the flooded data =
itself.</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Absolutely true. If the computation of the =
topology is incorrect, that would certainly be a =
bug.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay =
in the convergence towards the new "flooding topology=E2=80=9D.</span><br =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none;" =
class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Since we distribute the flooding topology before =
there are topology failures, it would seem like the latency is not a =
significant concern.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br =
class=3D""><blockquote type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span =
style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: =
12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: =
normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; =
text-transform: none; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; =
-webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: none; float: none; =
display: inline !important;" class=3D"">Have you considered the =
distributed computation of "flooding topology" using some standardized =
algorithm?</span><br style=3D"caret-color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: =
Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: normal; font-variant-caps: =
normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: normal; text-align: start; =
text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; white-space: normal; =
word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; text-decoration: =
none;" class=3D""></div></blockquote><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There =
are some practical issues with this. How do we ever converge on an =
algorithm?&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>There are many =
perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology might be. Different =
administrations have different considerations and risk =
tolerances.&nbsp;</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>Debugging is going =
to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between two nodes with =
different ideas of the topology will be difficult to detect until there =
is a catastrophic failure.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>I=E2=80=99m=
 trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing this in a =
centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way =
forward.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><br class=3D""><blockquote =
type=3D"cite" class=3D""><div class=3D""><span style=3D"caret-color: =
rgb(0, 0, 0); font-family: Helvetica; font-size: 12px; font-style: =
normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: normal; letter-spacing: =
normal; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; =
white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; =
text-decoration: none; float: none; display: inline !important;" =
class=3D"">Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A =
node can advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" =
algorithm is selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that =
all nodes in the flooding domain select the same =
one.</span></div></blockquote><br class=3D""></div></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Seems like that would also require some =
administrative input.</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div>So, I agree =
that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think that there=E2=80=99=
s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to focus on =
something that we can implement more quickly.</div><div><br =
class=3D""></div><div>Tony</div><div><br class=3D""></div><div><br =
class=3D""></div></body></html>=

--Apple-Mail=_D8D63913-B3F6-4BDB-9E5E-4D30811421DE--


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Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 17:50:24 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Hi Tony,

if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to 
implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional 
algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.

I have the feeling that the dependency of the "flooding topology" on the 
flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of 
the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more 
then one.

thanks,
Peter


On 06/04/18 17:19 , tony.li@tony.li wrote:
>
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thank you for your comments.
>
>> while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized
>> computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:
>>
>> 1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding
>> dependent on the flooded data itself.
>
>
> Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that
> would certainly be a bug.
>
>
>> 2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the
>> convergence towards the new "flooding topology”.
>
>
> Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology
> failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.
>
>
>> Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology"
>> using some standardized algorithm?
>
>
> Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical
> issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?
>
> There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology might
> be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk
> tolerances.
>
> Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between
> two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to
> detect until there is a catastrophic failure.
>
> I’m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing this in a
> centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way forward.
>
>
>> Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node can
>> advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" algorithm is
>> selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all nodes in
>> the flooding domain select the same one.
>
>
> Seems like that would also require some administrative input.
>
> So, I agree that that’s a technical possibility, but I think that
> there’s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to focus on
> something that we can implement more quickly.
>
> Tony
>
>


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From: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 16:02:30 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Peter,

How do we transition between algorithms in the approach that you suggest?
Do all non-stub devices need to be upgraded to support the new algorithm
before such time as we can use it? (I think so, because otherwise some
non-stub device cannot be guaranteed to flood to its downstream stub
devices - so we may end up isolating some devices if any device transitions
before all nodes support it).

The advantage of having something advertised is that one can compute it
centrally - and keep the per-node functionality simply obeying the
advertised flooding graph. From an operational perspective, this means that
one can introduce new experimental flooding topology computation approaches
in a manner that is decoupled from needing to do software upgrades across
the whole network. I can also implement non-standard flooding topology
computations based on the network topology which could be only applicable
to that particular network (consider if I wanted to do something like take
into account shared-risk information in the algorithm to allow the
most-SRLG disjoint flooding topology or so).

This is in addition to the points Tony made. I think this
centralised-computation-and-flooded approach is elegant. If the error
handling behaviour for not being able to parse the flooding topology is to
revert to flooding everywhere, then it seems non-destructive too.

Cheers,
r.

On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Tony,
>
> if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to
> implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional
> algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.
>
> I have the feeling that the dependency of the "flooding topology" on the
> flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of
> the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more
> then one.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
> On 06/04/18 17:19 , tony.li@tony.li wrote:
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thank you for your comments.
> >
> >> while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized
> >> computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:
> >>
> >> 1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding
> >> dependent on the flooded data itself.
> >
> >
> > Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that
> > would certainly be a bug.
> >
> >
> >> 2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the
> >> convergence towards the new "flooding topology=E2=80=9D.
> >
> >
> > Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology
> > failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.
> >
> >
> >> Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology"
> >> using some standardized algorithm?
> >
> >
> > Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical
> > issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?
> >
> > There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology might
> > be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk
> > tolerances.
> >
> > Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between
> > two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to
> > detect until there is a catastrophic failure.
> >
> > I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing t=
his in a
> > centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way
> forward.
> >
> >
> >> Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node can
> >> advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" algorithm is
> >> selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all nodes in
> >> the flooding domain select the same one.
> >
> >
> > Seems like that would also require some administrative input.
> >
> > So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think th=
at
> > there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to f=
ocus on
> > something that we can implement more quickly.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

--0000000000008d60f70569302fb0
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<div dir=3D"ltr">Peter,<div><br></div><div>How do we transition between alg=
orithms in the approach that you suggest? Do all non-stub devices need to b=
e upgraded to support the new algorithm before such time as we can use it? =
(I think so, because otherwise some non-stub device cannot be guaranteed to=
 flood to its downstream stub devices - so we may end up isolating some dev=
ices if any device transitions before all nodes support it).=C2=A0</div><di=
v><br></div><div>The advantage of having something advertised is that one c=
an compute it centrally - and keep the per-node functionality simply obeyin=
g the advertised flooding graph. From an operational perspective, this mean=
s that one can introduce new experimental flooding topology computation app=
roaches in a manner that is decoupled from needing to do software upgrades =
across the whole network. I can also implement non-standard flooding topolo=
gy computations based on the network topology which could be only applicabl=
e to that particular network (consider if I wanted to do something like tak=
e into account shared-risk information in the algorithm to allow the most-S=
RLG disjoint flooding topology or so).</div><div><br></div><div>This is in =
addition to the points Tony made. I think this centralised-computation-and-=
flooded approach is elegant. If the error handling behaviour for not being =
able to parse the flooding topology is to revert to flooding everywhere, th=
en it seems non-destructive too.</div><div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div=
>r.=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri=
, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com"=
>ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote=
" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">H=
i Tony,<br>
<br>
if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to<br>
implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional<br>
algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.<br>
<br>
I have the feeling that the dependency of the &quot;flooding topology&quot;=
 on the<br>
flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of<br>
the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more<br>
then one.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/04/18 17:19 , <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">to=
ny.li@tony.li</a> wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Peter,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thank you for your comments.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized=
<br>
&gt;&gt; computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as wel=
l:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 1. &quot;flooding topology&quot; must be flooded. This makes the f=
looding<br>
&gt;&gt; dependent on the flooded data itself.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that=
<br>
&gt; would certainly be a bug.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 2. The extra flooding of &quot;flooding topology&quot; adds some d=
elay in the<br>
&gt;&gt; convergence towards the new &quot;flooding topology=E2=80=9D.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology<br=
>
&gt; failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Have you considered the distributed computation of &quot;flooding =
topology&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; using some standardized algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical<b=
r>
&gt; issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology migh=
t<br>
&gt; be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk<b=
r>
&gt; tolerances.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between<=
br>
&gt; two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to<br=
>
&gt; detect until there is a catastrophic failure.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing =
this in a<br>
&gt; centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way forw=
ard.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node=
 can<br>
&gt;&gt; advertise support for several algorithms and the &quot;active&quot=
; algorithm is<br>
&gt;&gt; selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all node=
s in<br>
&gt;&gt; the flooding domain select the same one.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Seems like that would also require some administrative input.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think t=
hat<br>
&gt; there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to =
focus on<br>
&gt; something that we can implement more quickly.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a><br>
</blockquote></div>

--0000000000008d60f70569302fb0--


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 11:02:44 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Query for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Query for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
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Hi Acee,

=20

I=E2=80=99m aware of the IPR and it has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IP=
R rules.

https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3040/

=20

Thanks!

Cheers,

Jeff

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@ci=
sco.com>
Date: Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 18:22
To: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segm=
ent-routing-msd-10@ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Query for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) usin=
g OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt

=20

Authors,=20

=20

Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-ms=
d-10.txt?

If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see R=
FCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).

=20

If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to thi=
s email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The=
 response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document will no=
t advance to the next stage until a response has been received from each aut=
hor and contributor.

=20

If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or cont=
ributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR tha=
t has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.

=20

Thanks,

Acee=20

_______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.o=
rg https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=20


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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div clas=
s=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hi Acee,<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>I=E2=80=99m=
 aware of the IPR and it has been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rule=
s.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><a=
 href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/3040/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/=
ipr/3040/</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt'>Thanks!<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DM=
soNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Jeff</span><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:s=
olid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span st=
yle=3D'color:black'>From: </span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Lsr &lt;lsr-bou=
nces@ietf.org&gt; on behalf of &quot;Acee Lindem (acee)&quot; &lt;acee@cisco=
.com&gt;<br><b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 5, 2018 at 18:22<br><b>To: </b>&quo=
t;draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10@ietf.org&quot; &lt;draft-ietf-ospf-=
segment-routing-msd-10@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Cc: </b>&quot;lsr@ietf.org&quot; &=
lt;lsr@ietf.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>[Lsr] LSR WG IPR Query for &quot;Sign=
aling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-rou=
ting-msd-10.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><=
a name=3D"_MailOriginalBody"><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Authors, </span><o=
:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalB=
ody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p cl=
ass=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font=
-size:16.0pt'>Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ietf-ospf-segme=
nt-routing-msd-10.txt?</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>If so,=
 has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 397=
9, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p cla=
ss=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-=
size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>If you ar=
e listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email re=
gardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The response =
needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document will not advance =
to the next stage until a response has been received from each author and co=
ntributor.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-b=
ookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalB=
ody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>If you are on the LSR WG email list but =
are not listed as an author or contributor, then please explicitly respond o=
nly if you are aware of any IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conforman=
ce with IETF rules.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span sty=
le=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mail=
OriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></span=
></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span s=
tyle=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>Acee </span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'=
>_______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.o=
rg https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr </span></span><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>

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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 18:05:42 +0000
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To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>
Cc: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, lsr@ietf.org, tony.li@tony.li
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I agree with Rob & Tony.

Converging on single algorithm across zoo of vendors is not going to happen
bearing in mind that every single change to such algorithm will require a
massive 1000s nodes software upgrade each time.

Note that even if IETF converges industry may not and that is a practical
aspect.

With current proposal this is just one time upgrade.

Thx,
R.

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018, 18:02 Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh> wrote:

> Peter,
>
> How do we transition between algorithms in the approach that you suggest?
> Do all non-stub devices need to be upgraded to support the new algorithm
> before such time as we can use it? (I think so, because otherwise some
> non-stub device cannot be guaranteed to flood to its downstream stub
> devices - so we may end up isolating some devices if any device transitio=
ns
> before all nodes support it).
>
> The advantage of having something advertised is that one can compute it
> centrally - and keep the per-node functionality simply obeying the
> advertised flooding graph. From an operational perspective, this means th=
at
> one can introduce new experimental flooding topology computation approach=
es
> in a manner that is decoupled from needing to do software upgrades across
> the whole network. I can also implement non-standard flooding topology
> computations based on the network topology which could be only applicable
> to that particular network (consider if I wanted to do something like tak=
e
> into account shared-risk information in the algorithm to allow the
> most-SRLG disjoint flooding topology or so).
>
> This is in addition to the points Tony made. I think this
> centralised-computation-and-flooded approach is elegant. If the error
> handling behaviour for not being able to parse the flooding topology is t=
o
> revert to flooding everywhere, then it seems non-destructive too.
>
> Cheers,
> r.
>
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>
>> Hi Tony,
>>
>> if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to
>> implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional
>> algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.
>>
>> I have the feeling that the dependency of the "flooding topology" on the
>> flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of
>> the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more
>> then one.
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>
>> On 06/04/18 17:19 , tony.li@tony.li wrote:
>> >
>> > Hi Peter,
>> >
>> > Thank you for your comments.
>> >
>> >> while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized
>> >> computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:
>> >>
>> >> 1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding
>> >> dependent on the flooded data itself.
>> >
>> >
>> > Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that
>> > would certainly be a bug.
>> >
>> >
>> >> 2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the
>> >> convergence towards the new "flooding topology=E2=80=9D.
>> >
>> >
>> > Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology
>> > failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology=
"
>> >> using some standardized algorithm?
>> >
>> >
>> > Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical
>> > issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?
>> >
>> > There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology migh=
t
>> > be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk
>> > tolerances.
>> >
>> > Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between
>> > two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to
>> > detect until there is a catastrophic failure.
>> >
>> > I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing =
this in a
>> > centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way
>> forward.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node ca=
n
>> >> advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" algorithm i=
s
>> >> selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all nodes i=
n
>> >> the flooding domain select the same one.
>> >
>> >
>> > Seems like that would also require some administrative input.
>> >
>> > So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think t=
hat
>> > there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to =
focus on
>> > something that we can implement more quickly.
>> >
>> > Tony
>> >
>> >
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Lsr mailing list
>> Lsr@ietf.org
>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

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<div dir=3D"auto">I agree with Rob &amp; Tony.<div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><=
div dir=3D"auto">Converging on single algorithm across zoo of vendors is no=
t going to happen bearing in mind that every single change to such algorith=
m will require a massive 1000s nodes software upgrade each time.=C2=A0</div=
><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Note that even if IETF conve=
rges industry may not and that is a practical aspect.</div><div dir=3D"auto=
"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">With current proposal this is just one time u=
pgrade.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thx,</div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">R.</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote"><div dir=3D"ltr">O=
n Fri, Apr 6, 2018, 18:02 Rob Shakir &lt;rjs@rob.sh&gt; wrote:<br></div><bl=
ockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #=
ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">Peter,<div><br></div><div>How =
do we transition between algorithms in the approach that you suggest? Do al=
l non-stub devices need to be upgraded to support the new algorithm before =
such time as we can use it? (I think so, because otherwise some non-stub de=
vice cannot be guaranteed to flood to its downstream stub devices - so we m=
ay end up isolating some devices if any device transitions before all nodes=
 support it).=C2=A0</div><div><br></div><div>The advantage of having someth=
ing advertised is that one can compute it centrally - and keep the per-node=
 functionality simply obeying the advertised flooding graph. From an operat=
ional perspective, this means that one can introduce new experimental flood=
ing topology computation approaches in a manner that is decoupled from need=
ing to do software upgrades across the whole network. I can also implement =
non-standard flooding topology computations based on the network topology w=
hich could be only applicable to that particular network (consider if I wan=
ted to do something like take into account shared-risk information in the a=
lgorithm to allow the most-SRLG disjoint flooding topology or so).</div><di=
v><br></div><div>This is in addition to the points Tony made. I think this =
centralised-computation-and-flooded approach is elegant. If the error handl=
ing behaviour for not being able to parse the flooding topology is to rever=
t to flooding everywhere, then it seems non-destructive too.</div><div><br>=
</div><div>Cheers,</div><div>r.=C2=A0</div></div><br><div class=3D"gmail_qu=
ote"><div dir=3D"ltr">On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">ppsenak@=
cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Tony,=
<br>
<br>
if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to<br>
implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional<br>
algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.<br>
<br>
I have the feeling that the dependency of the &quot;flooding topology&quot;=
 on the<br>
flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of<br>
the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more<br>
then one.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/04/18 17:19 , <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank" re=
l=3D"noreferrer">tony.li@tony.li</a> wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Peter,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thank you for your comments.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized=
<br>
&gt;&gt; computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as wel=
l:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 1. &quot;flooding topology&quot; must be flooded. This makes the f=
looding<br>
&gt;&gt; dependent on the flooded data itself.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that=
<br>
&gt; would certainly be a bug.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 2. The extra flooding of &quot;flooding topology&quot; adds some d=
elay in the<br>
&gt;&gt; convergence towards the new &quot;flooding topology=E2=80=9D.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology<br=
>
&gt; failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Have you considered the distributed computation of &quot;flooding =
topology&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; using some standardized algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical<b=
r>
&gt; issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology migh=
t<br>
&gt; be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk<b=
r>
&gt; tolerances.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between<=
br>
&gt; two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to<br=
>
&gt; detect until there is a catastrophic failure.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing =
this in a<br>
&gt; centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way forw=
ard.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node=
 can<br>
&gt;&gt; advertise support for several algorithms and the &quot;active&quot=
; algorithm is<br>
&gt;&gt; selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all node=
s in<br>
&gt;&gt; the flooding domain select the same one.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Seems like that would also require some administrative input.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think t=
hat<br>
&gt; there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to =
focus on<br>
&gt; something that we can implement more quickly.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
_______________________________________________<br>
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From: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: lsr@ietf.org
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload@ietf.org, lsr-chairs@ietf.org,  "Acee Lindem (acee) (acee@cisco.com)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: [Lsr] Implementations of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload
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Dear lsr WG:

draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload [1] defines a new BGP-LS
Graceful-Link-Shutdown TLV.  When an early allocation was requested, it was
mistakenly requested from the "BGP-LS NLRI-Types" registry [2], not from
the "BGP-LS Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and
Attribute TLVs=E2=80=9D registry [3].  IANA allocated a value according to =
the
request: 1101.

The mistake wasn't noticed until the document was in IESG Evaluation -- we
are in the process of correcting it.  However, the 1101 code point is
already allocated [*] in the "BGP-LS Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor,
Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute TLVs=E2=80=9D registry, so a different val=
ue is
needed - the current suggested value is 1121.

Are there implementations of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload with the 1101
code point?  Are there deployments of those implementations?  What will be
the impact of changing the value to 1121?

Thanks!

Alvaro.

[*] The 1101 code point in the "BGP-LS Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor,
Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute TLVs=E2=80=9D registry corresponds to the
Peer-Node-SID, an early allocation made to
draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe [4], which says that "several
early implementations exist".

[1] https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload/
[2]
https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml#=
nlri-types

[3]
https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml#=
node-descriptor-link-descriptor-prefix-descriptor-attribute-tlv

[4]
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe/

--0000000000000954ef0569328432
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<html><head><style>body{font-family:Helvetica,Arial;font-size:13px}</style>=
</head><body style=3D"word-wrap:break-word"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" st=
yle=3D"margin:0px"><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">Dear l=
sr WG:</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><di=
v id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">draft-ietf-ospf-link-overloa=
d [1] defines a new BGP-LS Graceful-Link-Shutdown TLV.=C2=A0 When an early =
allocation was requested, it was mistakenly requested from the &quot;BGP-LS=
 NLRI-Types&quot; registry [2], not from the &quot;BGP-LS Node Descriptor, =
Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute TLVs=E2=80=9D registry [3=
].=C2=A0 IANA allocated a value according to the request: 1101.</div><div i=
d=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_cust=
omfont" style=3D"margin:0px">The mistake wasn&#39;t noticed until the docum=
ent was in IESG Evaluation -- we are in the process of correcting it.=C2=A0=
 However, the 1101 code point is already allocated [*] in the &quot;BGP-LS =
Node Descriptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute TLVs=E2=
=80=9D registry, so a different value is needed - the current suggested val=
ue is 1121.</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"><br></di=
v><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">Are there implementatio=
ns of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload with the 1101 code point?=C2=A0 Are the=
re deployments of those implementations?=C2=A0 What will be the impact of c=
hanging the value to 1121? =C2=A0</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=
=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"=
>Thanks!</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><=
div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">Alvaro.</div><div id=3D"bl=
oop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont"=
 style=3D"margin:0px">[*] The 1101 code point in the &quot;BGP-LS Node Desc=
riptor, Link Descriptor, Prefix Descriptor, and Attribute TLVs=E2=80=9D reg=
istry corresponds to the Peer-Node-SID, an early allocation made to draft-i=
etf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-epe [4], which says that &quot;several early =
implementations exist&quot;.</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"mar=
gin:0px"><br></div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">[1] <a=
 href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload/">h=
ttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload/</a>=C2=A0</d=
iv><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">[2] <a href=3D"https:/=
/www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.xhtml#nlri-ty=
pes">https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parameters.x=
html#nlri-types</a>=C2=A0</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin=
:0px">[3] <a href=3D"https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp=
-ls-parameters.xhtml#node-descriptor-link-descriptor-prefix-descriptor-attr=
ibute-tlv">https://www.iana.org/assignments/bgp-ls-parameters/bgp-ls-parame=
ters.xhtml#node-descriptor-link-descriptor-prefix-descriptor-attribute-tlv<=
/a>=C2=A0</div><div id=3D"bloop_customfont" style=3D"margin:0px">[4] <a hre=
f=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing-=
epe/">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-idr-bgpls-segment-routing=
-epe/</a>=C2=A0</div><div style=3D"color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:Helvetica,A=
rial;font-size:13px"><br></div></div><br><div id=3D"bloop_sign_152304037342=
5820928" class=3D"bloop_sign"></div></body></html>

--0000000000000954ef0569328432--


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 20:06:57 +0000
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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 14:27:27 -0700
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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References: <303B9428-1EF5-417C-8223-DCB34440677B@cisco.com> <69468450ae0141098f7579d630b9cd33@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <87h8op911x.fsf@chopps.org> <80eda7a4488a421b90027a702b2440d0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <041f01d3cd94$4d3eede0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <3d9104924be14e699317af63b903d54e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <91F6295C-E0FA-4BAE-8CC1-2FCD60F6B8FE@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/9zQaR8tyhew_hZpjVpWdjhvrdkU>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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+1

Regards,
Jeff

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 12:25, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> I'm fine with the proposed naming conventions for new drafts. Formally:=20=

>=20
>    <author-name>-lsr-ospf-<draft-specific-name>   - OSPF Specific drafts
>    <author-name>-lsr-isis-<draft-specific-name>      - IS-IS Specific draf=
ts=20
>    <author-name>-lsr-<draft-specific-name>             - Drafts covering b=
oth protocols.=20
>=20
> Anyone strongly disagree?=20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOn 4/6/18, 1:57 PM, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com=
> wrote:
>=20
>    Tom -
>=20
>    Thanx for the support.
>=20
>    It occurs to me that your filter still needs adjustment however - since=
 there will be cases when a common document is used for all protocols - and i=
n such a case you can only expect "-lsr-" to be in the title.
>=20
>    My point is there should be a straightforward way to identify the scope=
 of the content from the name - just using "-lsr-" for all documents is very=
 sub-optimal - and the fix for this is very easy.
>=20
>       Les
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2018 3:43 AM
>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Christian Hopps
>> <chopps@chopps.org>
>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-
>> rfc7810bis-00.txt
>>=20
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 5:26 PM
>>=20
>>> Chris -
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 7:32 AM
>>>>=20
>>>> I think that the only time we should include the protocol (in
>> addition to '-lsr-')
>>>> is if we have split documents (for whatever reason) on the same
>> solution.
>>>> We have an example of this actually:
>>>>=20
>>>>    draft-ietf-xxxx-segment-routing-msd-09
>>>>    draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-09
>>>>=20
>>>> Going forward we either combine these types of documents into a
>> single
>>>> document (discussion started @101) so "-lsr-" is appropriate, or if
>> there's
>>>> some reason not to merge them then we have 2 documents that need
>> the
>>>> protocol identifier to disambiguate.
>>>>=20
>>>> In this case there's no ambiguity so I don't see the need of adding
>> an extra "-
>>>> isis-".
>>> [Les:] RFC 7810 is xxxx specific.
>>> There is a separate document for equivalent OSPF functionality (RFC
>> 7471).
>>>=20
>>> My point is - the reader should not have to go through the body of the
>> document to find out that the document is specific to a particular protoc=
ol.
>> The document name (which is preserved in the text even when it becomes
>> an RFC) should make that clear.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I agree.
>>=20
>> =46rom a purely personal point of view, I track OSPF but have no interest=
 in the
>> other protocol (mention of which causes my ISP to blackhole my e-mail).  I=

>> filter the I-D announce list and will see notification of any I-D with OS=
PF in the
>> title - any without OSPF in the title will pass under the radar.
>>=20
>> Tom Petch
>>=20
>>>   Les
>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Chris.
>>>>=20
>>>> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> writes:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feedback
>> from the
>>>> WG.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Combining xxxx/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument
>> there.
>>>>> But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:
>>>>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 14:29:36 -0700
Cc: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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References: <303B9428-1EF5-417C-8223-DCB34440677B@cisco.com> <69468450ae0141098f7579d630b9cd33@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <87h8op911x.fsf@chopps.org> <80eda7a4488a421b90027a702b2440d0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <041f01d3cd94$4d3eede0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <3d9104924be14e699317af63b903d54e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <91F6295C-E0FA-4BAE-8CC1-2FCD60F6B8FE@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/MqLcYNTi7dO0ugB30P4q_NB7tSA>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Acee,

What about ospfv2 vs ospfv3 specifics?
We keep it as before - eg =E2=80=9Cospf=E2=80=9D covers either or ospfv2, =E2=
=80=9Cospfv3=E2=80=9D is for ospfv3 only?=20

Regards,
Jeff

> On Apr 6, 2018, at 12:25, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> I'm fine with the proposed naming conventions for new drafts. Formally:=20=

>=20
>    <author-name>-lsr-ospf-<draft-specific-name>   - OSPF Specific drafts
>    <author-name>-lsr-isis-<draft-specific-name>      - IS-IS Specific draf=
ts=20
>    <author-name>-lsr-<draft-specific-name>             - Drafts covering b=
oth protocols.=20
>=20
> Anyone strongly disagree?=20
>=20
> Thanks,
> Acee=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> =EF=BB=BFOn 4/6/18, 1:57 PM, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com=
> wrote:
>=20
>    Tom -
>=20
>    Thanx for the support.
>=20
>    It occurs to me that your filter still needs adjustment however - since=
 there will be cases when a common document is used for all protocols - and i=
n such a case you can only expect "-lsr-" to be in the title.
>=20
>    My point is there should be a straightforward way to identify the scope=
 of the content from the name - just using "-lsr-" for all documents is very=
 sub-optimal - and the fix for this is very easy.
>=20
>       Les
>=20
>=20
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
>> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2018 3:43 AM
>> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Christian Hopps
>> <chopps@chopps.org>
>> Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-
>> rfc7810bis-00.txt
>>=20
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 5:26 PM
>>=20
>>> Chris -
>>>=20
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 7:32 AM
>>>>=20
>>>> I think that the only time we should include the protocol (in
>> addition to '-lsr-')
>>>> is if we have split documents (for whatever reason) on the same
>> solution.
>>>> We have an example of this actually:
>>>>=20
>>>>    draft-ietf-xxxx-segment-routing-msd-09
>>>>    draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-09
>>>>=20
>>>> Going forward we either combine these types of documents into a
>> single
>>>> document (discussion started @101) so "-lsr-" is appropriate, or if
>> there's
>>>> some reason not to merge them then we have 2 documents that need
>> the
>>>> protocol identifier to disambiguate.
>>>>=20
>>>> In this case there's no ambiguity so I don't see the need of adding
>> an extra "-
>>>> isis-".
>>> [Les:] RFC 7810 is xxxx specific.
>>> There is a separate document for equivalent OSPF functionality (RFC
>> 7471).
>>>=20
>>> My point is - the reader should not have to go through the body of the
>> document to find out that the document is specific to a particular protoc=
ol.
>> The document name (which is preserved in the text even when it becomes
>> an RFC) should make that clear.
>>>=20
>>=20
>> I agree.
>>=20
>> =46rom a purely personal point of view, I track OSPF but have no interest=
 in the
>> other protocol (mention of which causes my ISP to blackhole my e-mail).  I=

>> filter the I-D announce list and will see notification of any I-D with OS=
PF in the
>> title - any without OSPF in the title will pass under the radar.
>>=20
>> Tom Petch
>>=20
>>>   Les
>>>=20
>>>> Thanks,
>>>> Chris.
>>>>=20
>>>> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> writes:
>>>>=20
>>>>> Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feedback
>> from the
>>>> WG.
>>>>>=20
>>>>> Combining xxxx/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argument
>> there.
>>>>> But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:
>>>>>=20
>=20
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
CC: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2018 21:45:06 +0000
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References: <303B9428-1EF5-417C-8223-DCB34440677B@cisco.com> <69468450ae0141098f7579d630b9cd33@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <87h8op911x.fsf@chopps.org> <80eda7a4488a421b90027a702b2440d0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <041f01d3cd94$4d3eede0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <3d9104924be14e699317af63b903d54e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <91F6295C-E0FA-4BAE-8CC1-2FCD60F6B8FE@cisco.com> <6A46ECB1-A0AD-4A94-9EDF-7EA9812B416D@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2018 15:09:04 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
CC: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "t.petch" <ietfc@btconnect.com>, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Message-ID: <D6D0E5BF-F91F-4054-B538-A753DD1340B0@gmail.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
References: <303B9428-1EF5-417C-8223-DCB34440677B@cisco.com> <69468450ae0141098f7579d630b9cd33@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <87h8op911x.fsf@chopps.org> <80eda7a4488a421b90027a702b2440d0@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <041f01d3cd94$4d3eede0$4001a8c0@gateway.2wire.net> <3d9104924be14e699317af63b903d54e@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <91F6295C-E0FA-4BAE-8CC1-2FCD60F6B8FE@cisco.com> <6A46ECB1-A0AD-4A94-9EDF-7EA9812B416D@gmail.com> <90CE5899-3AFE-42D9-BD5A-CC4A53BE6CC5@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/umTLX-QX4ZKHucHQT6FgovgALi8>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Sold!

Cheers,
Jeff
=EF=BB=BFOn 4/6/18, 14:45, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

    Good point - we will expand to:=20
   =20
        <author-name>-lsr-ospf-<draft-specific-name>      - OSPF Specific d=
rafts pertaining to both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3
        <author-name>-lsr-ospfv2-<draft-specific-name>  - OSPFv2 only Speci=
fic drafts=20
        <author-name>-lsr-ospfv3-<draft-specific-name>  - OSPFv3 only Speci=
fic drafts    =20
        <author-name>-lsr-isis-<draft-specific-name>        - IS-IS Specifi=
c drafts
        <author-name>-lsr-<draft-specific-name>               - Drafts cove=
ring both protocols.
   =20
    I'd hope the OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 specific drafts are few and far between =
but I can still see reasons to have both (e.g., OSPFv2 will never support mu=
ltiple address familes).=20
   =20
    Thanks,
    Acee   =20
   =20
    =EF=BB=BFOn 4/6/18, 5:29 PM, "Jeff Tantsura" <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com> wrote:
   =20
        Acee,
       =20
        What about ospfv2 vs ospfv3 specifics?
        We keep it as before - eg =E2=80=9Cospf=E2=80=9D covers either or ospfv2, =E2=80=9Cos=
pfv3=E2=80=9D is for ospfv3 only?=20
       =20
        Regards,
        Jeff
       =20
        > On Apr 6, 2018, at 12:25, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wro=
te:
        >=20
        > I'm fine with the proposed naming conventions for new drafts. For=
mally:=20
        >=20
        >    <author-name>-lsr-ospf-<draft-specific-name>   - OSPF Specific=
 drafts
        >    <author-name>-lsr-isis-<draft-specific-name>      - IS-IS Spec=
ific drafts=20
        >    <author-name>-lsr-<draft-specific-name>             - Drafts c=
overing both protocols.=20
        >=20
        > Anyone strongly disagree?=20
        >=20
        > Thanks,
        > Acee=20
        >=20
        >=20
        >=20
        >=20
        > On 4/6/18, 1:57 PM, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com=
> wrote:
        >=20
        >    Tom -
        >=20
        >    Thanx for the support.
        >=20
        >    It occurs to me that your filter still needs adjustment howeve=
r - since there will be cases when a common document is used for all protoco=
ls - and in such a case you can only expect "-lsr-" to be in the title.
        >=20
        >    My point is there should be a straightforward way to identify =
the scope of the content from the name - just using "-lsr-" for all document=
s is very sub-optimal - and the fix for this is very easy.
        >=20
        >       Les
        >=20
        >=20
        >> -----Original Message-----
        >> From: t.petch <ietfc@btconnect.com>
        >> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2018 3:43 AM
        >> To: Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>; Christian Hopp=
s
        >> <chopps@chopps.org>
        >> Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
        >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsbe=
rg-isis-
        >> rfc7810bis-00.txt
        >>=20
        >> ----- Original Message -----
        >> From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
        >> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 5:26 PM
        >>=20
        >>> Chris -
        >>>=20
        >>>> -----Original Message-----
        >>>> From: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
        >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 05, 2018 7:32 AM
        >>>>=20
        >>>> I think that the only time we should include the protocol (in
        >> addition to '-lsr-')
        >>>> is if we have split documents (for whatever reason) on the sam=
e
        >> solution.
        >>>> We have an example of this actually:
        >>>>=20
        >>>>    draft-ietf-xxxx-segment-routing-msd-09
        >>>>    draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-09
        >>>>=20
        >>>> Going forward we either combine these types of documents into =
a
        >> single
        >>>> document (discussion started @101) so "-lsr-" is appropriate, =
or if
        >> there's
        >>>> some reason not to merge them then we have 2 documents that ne=
ed
        >> the
        >>>> protocol identifier to disambiguate.
        >>>>=20
        >>>> In this case there's no ambiguity so I don't see the need of a=
dding
        >> an extra "-
        >>>> isis-".
        >>> [Les:] RFC 7810 is xxxx specific.
        >>> There is a separate document for equivalent OSPF functionality =
(RFC
        >> 7471).
        >>>=20
        >>> My point is - the reader should not have to go through the body=
 of the
        >> document to find out that the document is specific to a particul=
ar protocol.
        >> The document name (which is preserved in the text even when it b=
ecomes
        >> an RFC) should make that clear.
        >>>=20
        >>=20
        >> I agree.
        >>=20
        >> From a purely personal point of view, I track OSPF but have no i=
nterest in the
        >> other protocol (mention of which causes my ISP to blackhole my e=
-mail).  I
        >> filter the I-D announce list and will see notification of any I-=
D with OSPF in the
        >> title - any without OSPF in the title will pass under the radar.
        >>=20
        >> Tom Petch
        >>=20
        >>>   Les
        >>>=20
        >>>> Thanks,
        >>>> Chris.
        >>>>=20
        >>>> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> writes:
        >>>>=20
        >>>>> Well...this raises a topic on which I would like to have feed=
back
        >> from the
        >>>> WG.
        >>>>>=20
        >>>>> Combining xxxx/OSPF into one working group is fine - no argum=
ent
        >> there.
        >>>>> But, we now may be producing two classes of documents:
        >>>>>=20
        >=20
        >=20
        >=20
        > _______________________________________________
        > Lsr mailing list
        > Lsr@ietf.org
        > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
       =20
   =20
   =20



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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Alvaro Retana <aretana.ietf@gmail.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload@ietf.org>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Implementations of draft-ietf-ospf-link-overload
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Given Les chimed in I can't resist either now ;-)  Individual musings a bit
having done some of the stuff in the past ;-)

On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 1:06 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> I think this discussion has already gone much too far in the direction of
> customized flooding optimizations. Such is the nature of the engineering
> mind =E2=80=93 give us a problem to solve and we=E2=80=99ll come up with =
a plethora of
> solutions.
>
>
>
> The right perspective (for me anyway) is this:
>
>
>
> IGPs have been  popular as distribution mechanisms in part because of the
> reliability of  their flooding process. This wasn=E2=80=99t easy to achie=
ve =E2=80=93 and
> those of us who have been in the business long enough have seen attempts =
to
> create something equivalent fall flat on their face because they couldn=
=E2=80=99t
> handle the corner causes. Simple yet robust has been the guiding principl=
e
> and both IGPs do this well.
>

yepp, flooding is hard to get right ;-) However, flooding _is_ a problem in
a highly densed mesh @ scale (which DC fabrics are), bandwidth less so then
the sheer amount of updates generated & necessary CPU power needed IME.
That can be addressed in different ways, flooding DAG optimization variants
being one of them ;-)


>
>
>
>
>
> I agree with Peter=E2=80=99s suggestion  that a common decentralized algo=
rithm is
> desirable. It will simplify problems associated with reconvergence which =
I
> think is key.
>

well, on one hand we have the "telephony networks solution" a.k.a.  a
single node doing all the computation/enforcing state on all. Intoxicating
in its simplicity, unpleasant in its fragility. Plus, what happens if a
_2nd_ node happens to start advertising something else ;-) ?  I think that
e.g. the FlexAlgo currently suggested solution for that problem (i.e.
multiple sources of truth with preference tie-breaking) is a good trade-off
here modulo the necessary convergence time.

On the other hand we have the "fully distributed algorithm" which is
intoxicating in its robustness and frustrating in the time it takes to get
them right if not highly skilled in the art or specs have holes ;-) Well,
for that matter any eventual consistency distributed system is hard (unless
epsilon is inifite ;-)


> And I don=E2=80=99t think we really need to support multiple algorithms =
=E2=80=93 it was
> nice of Peter to allow for that =E2=80=93 but as we see now everyone is c=
oncerned
> about the upgrade issues that come with introducing a new algorithm.
>

That I would concur with ...


>
>
> Let=E2=80=99s agree on one algorithm and be done.
>
> A variant on https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.5.1 is one
> such candidate.
>
>
>
>
And here the dog has more hair than what it initially looks like (from
[however quite dated in case of this problem ;-)] implementation
experience).   First, @ scale a single spanning tree tends to be tad
fragile on failures/convergence, generates "hot-links" on which e'one has
to wait to converge. Doing two max disjoint trees is not easy but doable
from experience @ very non-neglectible complexity. And it's still not fully
"load-balancing" flooding which would be the ideal thing of course. Then,
and I think Tony describes the problem quite well in the draft in its
nature, the problems of diameter and fanout control starts to play a role.
A min-diameter algorithm is (non-distributed) AFAIR a clique problem and
with that NP complete (albeit some good heurestics were around, it's too
long for me to recall).

This of course all having to do with trying to solve a generic graph
problem. If we focus on lattices/Haase/partially ordered graphs (think CLOS
as practical variant or anything that has a north and a south) then the
problem of almost optimal flood reduction while load balancing is quite
tractable in distributed fashion we discovered but we're working on it as
we speak so look for the -06 draft update in another group ;-)

my 2c, rusty and dented but not debased l;-)

--- tony

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Given Les chimed in I can&#39;t resist either now ;-)=C2=
=A0 Individual musings a bit having done some of the stuff in the past ;-)<=
br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 6,=
 2018 at 1:06 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US">
<div class=3D"m_-6397711123682828253WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think this discussion has already g=
one much too far in the direction of customized flooding optimizations. Suc=
h is the nature of the engineering mind =E2=80=93 give
 us a problem to solve and we=E2=80=99ll come up with a plethora of solutio=
ns.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The right perspective (for me anyway)=
 is this:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">IGPs have been =C2=A0popular as distr=
ibution mechanisms in part because of the reliability of=C2=A0 their floodi=
ng process. This wasn=E2=80=99t easy to achieve =E2=80=93 and those of us
 who have been in the business long enough have seen attempts to create som=
ething equivalent fall flat on their face because they couldn=E2=80=99t han=
dle the corner causes. Simple yet robust has been the guiding principle and=
 both IGPs do this well.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div>=
<div>yepp, flooding is hard to get right ;-) However, flooding _is_ a probl=
em in a highly densed mesh @ scale (which DC fabrics are), bandwidth less s=
o then the sheer amount of updates generated &amp; necessary CPU power need=
ed IME. That can be addressed in different ways, flooding DAG optimization =
variants being one of them ;-)<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=
=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padd=
ing-left:1ex"><div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=
=3D"m_-6397711123682828253WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=
=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f49=
7d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><br></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I agree with Peter=E2=80=99s suggesti=
on =C2=A0that a common decentralized algorithm is desirable. It will simpli=
fy problems associated with reconvergence which I think is
 key.</span></p></div></div></blockquote><div><br></div><div>well, on one h=
and we have the &quot;telephony networks solution&quot; a.k.a.=C2=A0 a sing=
le node doing all the computation/enforcing state on all. Intoxicating in i=
ts simplicity, unpleasant in its fragility. Plus, what happens if a _2nd_ n=
ode happens to start advertising something else ;-) ?=C2=A0 I think that e.=
g. the FlexAlgo currently suggested solution for that problem (i.e. multipl=
e sources of truth with preference tie-breaking) is a good trade-off here m=
odulo the necessary convergence time. <br><br></div><div>On the other hand =
we have the &quot;fully distributed algorithm&quot; which is intoxicating i=
n its robustness and frustrating in the time it takes to get them right if =
not highly skilled in the art or specs have holes ;-) Well, for that matter=
 any eventual consistency distributed system is hard (unless epsilon is ini=
fite ;-)<br></div><div>=C2=A0</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=
=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div lin=
k=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" lang=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_-639771112368282=
8253WordSection1"><p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">And I don=E2=80=99t think we really n=
eed to support multiple algorithms =E2=80=93 it was nice of Peter to allow =
for that =E2=80=93 but as we see now everyone is concerned about the upgrad=
e
 issues that come with introducing a new algorithm.</span></p></div></div><=
/blockquote><div><br></div><div>That I would concur with ... <br>=C2=A0<br>=
</div><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-l=
eft:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple" la=
ng=3D"EN-US"><div class=3D"m_-6397711123682828253WordSection1"><p class=3D"=
MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,=
sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Let=E2=80=99s agree on one algorithm =
and be done.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">A variant on
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.5.1" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>rfc6325#section-4.5.1</a> is one such=
 candidate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><br></p></div></div>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">And here the do=
g has more hair than what it initially looks like (from [however quite date=
d in case of this problem ;-)] implementation experience).=C2=A0=C2=A0 Firs=
t, @ scale a single spanning tree tends to be tad fragile on failures/conve=
rgence, generates &quot;hot-links&quot; on which e&#39;one has to wait to c=
onverge. Doing two max disjoint trees is not easy but doable from experienc=
e @ very non-neglectible complexity. And it&#39;s still not fully &quot;loa=
d-balancing&quot; flooding which would be the ideal thing of course. Then, =
and I think Tony describes the problem quite well in the draft in its natur=
e, the problems of diameter and fanout control starts to play a role. A min=
-diameter algorithm is (non-distributed) AFAIR a clique problem and with th=
at NP complete (albeit some good heurestics were around, it&#39;s too long =
for me to recall). <br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">This of course =
all having to do with trying to solve a generic graph problem. If we focus =
on lattices/Haase/partially ordered graphs (think CLOS as practical variant=
 or anything that has a north and a south) then the problem of almost optim=
al flood reduction while load balancing is quite tractable in distributed f=
ashion we discovered but we&#39;re working on it as we speak so look for th=
e -06 draft update in another group ;-)<br><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_ex=
tra">my 2c, rusty and dented but not debased l;-)<br></div><div class=3D"gm=
ail_extra"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra">--- tony <br></div></div>

--94eb2c1cd46c588b1b056945b5f6--


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Cc: Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>
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Les,

Isn't RIFT effectively a new flooding algorithm - while not strictly
designed to be used within current link state protocols - it has the
potential to achieve what you and Peter are proposing isn't it ?

My personal take here would be to progress dynamic flooding *as is* with
the use of DR/DIS as flooding oracles.

If you or anyone however would like to propose a new flooding algorithm to
link state protocols I think nothing stops you to write a separate draft on
that and call it say -optimal-flooding-.

Best,
Robert.



On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 10:06 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.co=
m
> wrote:

> I think this discussion has already gone much too far in the direction of
> customized flooding optimizations. Such is the nature of the engineering
> mind =E2=80=93 give us a problem to solve and we=E2=80=99ll come up with =
a plethora of
> solutions.
>
>
>
> The right perspective (for me anyway) is this:
>
>
>
> IGPs have been  popular as distribution mechanisms in part because of the
> reliability of  their flooding process. This wasn=E2=80=99t easy to achie=
ve =E2=80=93 and
> those of us who have been in the business long enough have seen attempts =
to
> create something equivalent fall flat on their face because they couldn=
=E2=80=99t
> handle the corner causes. Simple yet robust has been the guiding principl=
e
> and both IGPs do this well.
>
>
>
> It is also useful to remember that bandwidth utilization for IGP flooding
> is not a problem which we need to solve. It has been demonstrated =E2=80=
=93 even
> long ago with much less bandwidth than we have today =E2=80=93 that IGP f=
looding
> bandwidth isn=E2=80=99t a concern. So proposals which suggest we might ne=
ed to come
> up with an algorithm that optimizes for bandwidth or SRLGs or whatever
> criteria one could imagine seem unnecessary =E2=80=93 as well as incestuo=
us. And
> they certainly complicate the problem.
>
>
>
> I agree with Peter=E2=80=99s suggestion  that a common decentralized algo=
rithm is
> desirable. It will simplify problems associated with reconvergence which =
I
> think is key.
>
> And I don=E2=80=99t think we really need to support multiple algorithms =
=E2=80=93 it was
> nice of Peter to allow for that =E2=80=93 but as we see now everyone is c=
oncerned
> about the upgrade issues that come with introducing a new algorithm.
>
>
>
> Let=E2=80=99s agree on one algorithm and be done.
>
> A variant on https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.5.1 is one
> such candidate.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Rob Shakir
> *Sent:* Friday, April 06, 2018 9:03 AM
> *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; tony.li@tony.li
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for
> draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
>
>
>
> Peter,
>
>
>
> How do we transition between algorithms in the approach that you suggest?
> Do all non-stub devices need to be upgraded to support the new algorithm
> before such time as we can use it? (I think so, because otherwise some
> non-stub device cannot be guaranteed to flood to its downstream stub
> devices - so we may end up isolating some devices if any device transitio=
ns
> before all nodes support it).
>
>
>
> The advantage of having something advertised is that one can compute it
> centrally - and keep the per-node functionality simply obeying the
> advertised flooding graph. From an operational perspective, this means th=
at
> one can introduce new experimental flooding topology computation approach=
es
> in a manner that is decoupled from needing to do software upgrades across
> the whole network. I can also implement non-standard flooding topology
> computations based on the network topology which could be only applicable
> to that particular network (consider if I wanted to do something like tak=
e
> into account shared-risk information in the algorithm to allow the
> most-SRLG disjoint flooding topology or so).
>
>
>
> This is in addition to the points Tony made. I think this
> centralised-computation-and-flooded approach is elegant. If the error
> handling behaviour for not being able to parse the flooding topology is t=
o
> revert to flooding everywhere, then it seems non-destructive too.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> r.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to
> implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional
> algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.
>
> I have the feeling that the dependency of the "flooding topology" on the
> flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of
> the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more
> then one.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
> On 06/04/18 17:19 , tony.li@tony.li wrote:
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thank you for your comments.
> >
> >> while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized
> >> computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:
> >>
> >> 1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding
> >> dependent on the flooded data itself.
> >
> >
> > Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that
> > would certainly be a bug.
> >
> >
> >> 2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the
> >> convergence towards the new "flooding topology=E2=80=9D.
> >
> >
> > Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology
> > failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.
> >
> >
> >> Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology"
> >> using some standardized algorithm?
> >
> >
> > Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical
> > issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?
> >
> > There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology might
> > be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk
> > tolerances.
> >
> > Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between
> > two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to
> > detect until there is a catastrophic failure.
> >
> > I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing t=
his in a
> > centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way
> forward.
> >
> >
> >> Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node can
> >> advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" algorithm is
> >> selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all nodes in
> >> the flooding domain select the same one.
> >
> >
> > Seems like that would also require some administrative input.
> >
> > So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think th=
at
> > there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to f=
ocus on
> > something that we can implement more quickly.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
>

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Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Les,</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-seri=
f;font-size:small">Isn&#39;t RIFT effectively a new flooding algorithm - wh=
ile not strictly designed to be used within current link state protocols - =
it has the potential to achieve what you and Peter are proposing isn&#39;t =
it ?=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,hel=
vetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" s=
tyle=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">My personal=
 take here would be to progress dynamic flooding *as is* with the use of DR=
/DIS as flooding oracles.=C2=A0</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"=
font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div><div clas=
s=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-si=
ze:small">If you or anyone however would like to propose a new flooding alg=
orithm to link state protocols I think nothing stops you to write a separat=
e draft on that and call it say -optimal-flooding-.=C2=A0</div><div class=
=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-siz=
e:small"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,=
helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Best,<br>Robert.</div><div class=3D"g=
mail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:sma=
ll"><br></div><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helve=
tica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"=
><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 10:06 PM, Les Ginsbe=
rg (ginsberg) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" t=
arget=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote cl=
ass=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;p=
adding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_610344821833359972WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think this discussion has already g=
one much too far in the direction of customized flooding optimizations. Suc=
h is the nature of the engineering mind =E2=80=93 give
 us a problem to solve and we=E2=80=99ll come up with a plethora of solutio=
ns.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The right perspective (for me anyway)=
 is this:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">IGPs have been =C2=A0popular as distr=
ibution mechanisms in part because of the reliability of=C2=A0 their floodi=
ng process. This wasn=E2=80=99t easy to achieve =E2=80=93 and those of us
 who have been in the business long enough have seen attempts to create som=
ething equivalent fall flat on their face because they couldn=E2=80=99t han=
dle the corner causes. Simple yet robust has been the guiding principle and=
 both IGPs do this well.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">It is also useful to remember that ba=
ndwidth utilization for IGP flooding is not a problem which we need to solv=
e. It has been demonstrated =E2=80=93 even long ago with
 much less bandwidth than we have today =E2=80=93 that IGP flooding bandwid=
th isn=E2=80=99t a concern. So proposals which suggest we might need to com=
e up with an algorithm that optimizes for bandwidth or SRLGs or whatever cr=
iteria one could imagine seem unnecessary =E2=80=93 as well
 as incestuous. And they certainly complicate the problem.<u></u><u></u></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I agree with Peter=E2=80=99s suggesti=
on =C2=A0that a common decentralized algorithm is desirable. It will simpli=
fy problems associated with reconvergence which I think is
 key.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">And I don=E2=80=99t think we really n=
eed to support multiple algorithms =E2=80=93 it was nice of Peter to allow =
for that =E2=80=93 but as we see now everyone is concerned about the upgrad=
e
 issues that come with introducing a new algorithm.<u></u><u></u></span></p=
>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Let=E2=80=99s agree on one algorithm =
and be done.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">A variant on
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.5.1" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>rfc6325#section-4.5.1</a> is one such=
 candidate.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-=
bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob Shakir<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 06, 2018 9:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">tony.li@tony.li</a=
><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynami=
c-flooding-04.<wbr>txt<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Peter,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How do we transition between algorithms in the appro=
ach that you suggest? Do all non-stub devices need to be upgraded to suppor=
t the new algorithm before such time as we can use it? (I think so, because=
 otherwise some non-stub device cannot
 be guaranteed to flood to its downstream stub devices - so we may end up i=
solating some devices if any device transitions before all nodes support it=
).=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The advantage of having something advertised is that=
 one can compute it centrally - and keep the per-node functionality simply =
obeying the advertised flooding graph. From an operational perspective, thi=
s means that one can introduce new
 experimental flooding topology computation approaches in a manner that is =
decoupled from needing to do software upgrades across the whole network. I =
can also implement non-standard flooding topology computations based on the=
 network topology which could be
 only applicable to that particular network (consider if I wanted to do som=
ething like take into account shared-risk information in the algorithm to a=
llow the most-SRLG disjoint flooding topology or so).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is in addition to the points Tony made. I think=
 this centralised-computation-and-<wbr>flooded approach is elegant. If the =
error handling behaviour for not being able to parse the flooding topology =
is to revert to flooding everywhere, then
 it seems non-destructive too.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">r.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Tony,<br>
<br>
if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to<br>
implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional<br>
algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.<br>
<br>
I have the feeling that the dependency of the &quot;flooding topology&quot;=
 on the<br>
flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of<br>
the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more<br>
then one.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/04/18 17:19 , <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">to=
ny.li@tony.li</a> wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Peter,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thank you for your comments.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized=
<br>
&gt;&gt; computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as wel=
l:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 1. &quot;flooding topology&quot; must be flooded. This makes the f=
looding<br>
&gt;&gt; dependent on the flooded data itself.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that=
<br>
&gt; would certainly be a bug.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 2. The extra flooding of &quot;flooding topology&quot; adds some d=
elay in the<br>
&gt;&gt; convergence towards the new &quot;flooding topology=E2=80=9D.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology<br=
>
&gt; failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Have you considered the distributed computation of &quot;flooding =
topology&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; using some standardized algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical<b=
r>
&gt; issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology migh=
t<br>
&gt; be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk<b=
r>
&gt; tolerances.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between<=
br>
&gt; two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to<br=
>
&gt; detect until there is a catastrophic failure.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing =
this in a<br>
&gt; centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way forw=
ard.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node=
 can<br>
&gt;&gt; advertise support for several algorithms and the &quot;active&quot=
; algorithm is<br>
&gt;&gt; selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all node=
s in<br>
&gt;&gt; the flooding domain select the same one.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Seems like that would also require some administrative input.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think t=
hat<br>
&gt; there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to =
focus on<br>
&gt; something that we can implement more quickly.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lsr</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

--f403045cf07862888e056945b7f4--


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
Thread-Index: AQHTxeXEUxECD0PlS0CiuFJsFhuGJKP0Nz6AgAAGLACAAAiPAIAAA2EA///cLsCAAdJ7gP//zXIg
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 19:47:30 +0000
Message-ID: <614aab647fec410f839fe29d0aa86f87@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com>
References: <152216649041.5234.6342137041063769692.idtracker@ietfa.amsl.com> <7D2C1874-8B55-45B1-8C5F-D4C9C1F47D11@tony.li> <5AC78AE5.8020707@cisco.com> <6E69B9E3-14A6-4EED-BBE4-F5A424D57787@tony.li> <5AC79740.6060205@cisco.com> <CAHxMReakZU0hgzXos0XF2xh0g0LaY2xYnkOCE9peQ0W=y-kL8Q@mail.gmail.com> <d95ca87a910546bda94b1ed7be2f35d9@XCH-ALN-001.cisco.com> <CA+b+ERmpe0mJa5G=C6wco-uF9MUvi6oLidhODoh2_tNLaz_D4Q@mail.gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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From: Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2018 21:52:17 +0200
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>,  "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Hi Les,

Just to clarify ..

*as is* - was meant to indicated as described in draft-li-dynamic-flooding
proposal. Not *as is* today in IGPs.

Thx,
R.

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Robert =E2=80=93
>
>
>
> I think discussion of RIFT belongs in the appropriate WG =E2=80=93 not he=
re.
>
>
>
> Flooding =E2=80=9Cas is=E2=80=9D isn=E2=80=99t relevant here =E2=80=93 si=
nce =E2=80=9Cas is=E2=80=9D would mean as the
> IGPs do it today.
>
> Whether the flooding topology is calculated/advertised by a designated
> node or is calculated in a distributed fashion clearly a different floodi=
ng
> topology from the one IGPs use today is required or we will have
> accomplished nothing.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Robert Raszuk
> *Sent:* Saturday, April 07, 2018 10:44 AM
> *To:* Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>; tony.li@tony.li; Peter
> Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for
> draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
>
>
>
> Les,
>
>
>
> Isn't RIFT effectively a new flooding algorithm - while not strictly
> designed to be used within current link state protocols - it has the
> potential to achieve what you and Peter are proposing isn't it ?
>
>
>
> My personal take here would be to progress dynamic flooding *as is* with
> the use of DR/DIS as flooding oracles.
>
>
>
> If you or anyone however would like to propose a new flooding algorithm t=
o
> link state protocols I think nothing stops you to write a separate draft =
on
> that and call it say -optimal-flooding-.
>
>
>
> Best,
> Robert.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 10:06 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <
> ginsberg@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> I think this discussion has already gone much too far in the direction of
> customized flooding optimizations. Such is the nature of the engineering
> mind =E2=80=93 give us a problem to solve and we=E2=80=99ll come up with =
a plethora of
> solutions.
>
>
>
> The right perspective (for me anyway) is this:
>
>
>
> IGPs have been  popular as distribution mechanisms in part because of the
> reliability of  their flooding process. This wasn=E2=80=99t easy to achie=
ve =E2=80=93 and
> those of us who have been in the business long enough have seen attempts =
to
> create something equivalent fall flat on their face because they couldn=
=E2=80=99t
> handle the corner causes. Simple yet robust has been the guiding principl=
e
> and both IGPs do this well.
>
>
>
> It is also useful to remember that bandwidth utilization for IGP flooding
> is not a problem which we need to solve. It has been demonstrated =E2=80=
=93 even
> long ago with much less bandwidth than we have today =E2=80=93 that IGP f=
looding
> bandwidth isn=E2=80=99t a concern. So proposals which suggest we might ne=
ed to come
> up with an algorithm that optimizes for bandwidth or SRLGs or whatever
> criteria one could imagine seem unnecessary =E2=80=93 as well as incestuo=
us. And
> they certainly complicate the problem.
>
>
>
> I agree with Peter=E2=80=99s suggestion  that a common decentralized algo=
rithm is
> desirable. It will simplify problems associated with reconvergence which =
I
> think is key.
>
> And I don=E2=80=99t think we really need to support multiple algorithms =
=E2=80=93 it was
> nice of Peter to allow for that =E2=80=93 but as we see now everyone is c=
oncerned
> about the upgrade issues that come with introducing a new algorithm.
>
>
>
> Let=E2=80=99s agree on one algorithm and be done.
>
> A variant on https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.5.1 is one
> such candidate.
>
>
>
>    Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Rob Shakir
> *Sent:* Friday, April 06, 2018 9:03 AM
> *To:* Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>
> *Cc:* lsr@ietf.org; tony.li@tony.li
> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for
> draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
>
>
>
> Peter,
>
>
>
> How do we transition between algorithms in the approach that you suggest?
> Do all non-stub devices need to be upgraded to support the new algorithm
> before such time as we can use it? (I think so, because otherwise some
> non-stub device cannot be guaranteed to flood to its downstream stub
> devices - so we may end up isolating some devices if any device transitio=
ns
> before all nodes support it).
>
>
>
> The advantage of having something advertised is that one can compute it
> centrally - and keep the per-node functionality simply obeying the
> advertised flooding graph. From an operational perspective, this means th=
at
> one can introduce new experimental flooding topology computation approach=
es
> in a manner that is decoupled from needing to do software upgrades across
> the whole network. I can also implement non-standard flooding topology
> computations based on the network topology which could be only applicable
> to that particular network (consider if I wanted to do something like tak=
e
> into account shared-risk information in the algorithm to allow the
> most-SRLG disjoint flooding topology or so).
>
>
>
> This is in addition to the points Tony made. I think this
> centralised-computation-and-flooded approach is elegant. If the error
> handling behaviour for not being able to parse the flooding topology is t=
o
> revert to flooding everywhere, then it seems non-destructive too.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
> r.
>
>
>
> On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to
> implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional
> algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.
>
> I have the feeling that the dependency of the "flooding topology" on the
> flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of
> the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more
> then one.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
> On 06/04/18 17:19 , tony.li@tony.li wrote:
> >
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thank you for your comments.
> >
> >> while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized
> >> computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:
> >>
> >> 1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding
> >> dependent on the flooded data itself.
> >
> >
> > Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that
> > would certainly be a bug.
> >
> >
> >> 2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the
> >> convergence towards the new "flooding topology=E2=80=9D.
> >
> >
> > Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology
> > failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.
> >
> >
> >> Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology"
> >> using some standardized algorithm?
> >
> >
> > Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical
> > issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?
> >
> > There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology might
> > be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk
> > tolerances.
> >
> > Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between
> > two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to
> > detect until there is a catastrophic failure.
> >
> > I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing t=
his in a
> > centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way
> forward.
> >
> >
> >> Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node can
> >> advertise support for several algorithms and the "active" algorithm is
> >> selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all nodes in
> >> the flooding domain select the same one.
> >
> >
> > Seems like that would also require some administrative input.
> >
> > So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think th=
at
> > there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to f=
ocus on
> > something that we can implement more quickly.
> >
> > Tony
> >
> >
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
>
>

--f4030439c7b497e52b05694782de
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr"><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,he=
lvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small">Hi Les,</div><div class=3D"gmail_defaul=
t" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_default" style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-s=
erif;font-size:small">Just to clarify ..</div><div class=3D"gmail_default" =
style=3D"font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;font-size:small"><br></div>=
<div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif">*a=
s is* - was meant to indicated as=C2=A0described in=C2=A0draft-li-dynamic-f=
looding proposal. Not *as is* today in IGPs.=C2=A0</font><br></div><div cla=
ss=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br></font=
></div><div class=3D"gmail_default"><font face=3D"arial, helvetica, sans-se=
rif">Thx,<br>R.</font></div></div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=
=3D"gmail_quote">On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 9:47 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <s=
pan dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank"=
>ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quo=
te" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"=
>





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"blue" vlink=3D"purple">
<div class=3D"m_-2037247769891612679WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Robert =E2=80=93<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think discussion of RIFT belongs in=
 the appropriate WG =E2=80=93 not here.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Flooding =E2=80=9Cas is=E2=80=9D isn=
=E2=80=99t relevant here =E2=80=93 since =E2=80=9Cas is=E2=80=9D would mean=
 as the IGPs do it today.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Whether the flooding topology is calc=
ulated/advertised by a designated node or is calculated in a distributed fa=
shion clearly a different flooding topology from
 the one IGPs use today is required or we will have accomplished nothing.<u=
></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></span>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-=
bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Robert Raszuk<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Saturday, April 07, 2018 10:44 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com=
" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; Rob Shakir &lt;rjs@rob.sh&gt;; <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" targe=
t=3D"_blank">tony.li@tony.li</a>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;<a href=3D"mai=
lto:ppsenak@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;</span></=
p><div><div class=3D"h5"><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynami=
c-flooding-04.<wbr>txt<u></u><u></u></div></div><p></p>
</div>
</div><div><div class=3D"h5">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Les,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Isn&#39;t RIFT effectively a new flooding algorithm - while not strict=
ly designed to be used within current link state protocols - it has the pot=
ential to achieve what you and Peter are proposing
 isn&#39;t it ?=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">My personal take here would be to progress dynamic flooding *as is* wi=
th the use of DR/DIS as flooding oracles.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">If you or anyone however would like to propose a new flooding algorith=
m to link state protocols I think nothing stops you to write a separate dra=
ft on that and call it say -optimal-flooding-.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif">Best,<br>
Robert.<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-family:&quot;Arial&quot;,sans-se=
rif"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, Apr 6, 2018 at 10:06 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsb=
erg) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@c=
isco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-right:0in">
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I think this discussion has already g=
one much too far in the direction of customized flooding optimizations.
 Such is the nature of the engineering mind =E2=80=93 give us a problem to =
solve and we=E2=80=99ll come up with a plethora of solutions.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">The right perspective (for me anyway)=
 is this:</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">IGPs have been =C2=A0popular as distr=
ibution mechanisms in part because of the reliability of=C2=A0 their floodi=
ng
 process. This wasn=E2=80=99t easy to achieve =E2=80=93 and those of us who=
 have been in the business long enough have seen attempts to create somethi=
ng equivalent fall flat on their face because they couldn=E2=80=99t handle =
the corner causes. Simple yet robust has been the guiding
 principle and both IGPs do this well.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">It is also useful to remember that ba=
ndwidth utilization for IGP flooding is not a problem which we
 need to solve. It has been demonstrated =E2=80=93 even long ago with much =
less bandwidth than we have today =E2=80=93 that IGP flooding bandwidth isn=
=E2=80=99t a concern. So proposals which suggest we might need to come up w=
ith an algorithm that optimizes for bandwidth or SRLGs or
 whatever criteria one could imagine seem unnecessary =E2=80=93 as well as =
incestuous. And they certainly complicate the problem.</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">I agree with Peter=E2=80=99s suggesti=
on =C2=A0that a common decentralized algorithm is desirable. It will simpli=
fy
 problems associated with reconvergence which I think is key.</span><u></u>=
<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">And I don=E2=80=99t think we really n=
eed to support multiple algorithms =E2=80=93 it was nice of Peter to allow =
for
 that =E2=80=93 but as we see now everyone is concerned about the upgrade i=
ssues that come with introducing a new algorithm.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">Let=E2=80=99s agree on one algorithm =
and be done.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">A variant on
<a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc6325#section-4.5.1" target=3D"_bl=
ank">https://tools.ietf.org/html/<wbr>rfc6325#section-4.5.1</a> is one such=
 candidate.</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les</span><u></u><u></u>=
</p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot;Ca=
libri&quot;,sans-serif;color:#1f497d">=C2=A0</span><u></u><u></u></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;font-family:&quot=
;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif">From:</span></b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:&quot;Calibri&quot;,sans-serif"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-=
bounces@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Rob Shakir<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Friday, April 06, 2018 9:03 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> Peter Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" =
target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br>
<b>Cc:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a>; <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">
tony.li@tony.li</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynami=
c-flooding-04.<wbr>txt</span><u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Peter,<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">How do we transition between algorithms in the appro=
ach that you suggest? Do all non-stub devices need to be upgraded to suppor=
t the new algorithm before such time as we can use
 it? (I think so, because otherwise some non-stub device cannot be guarante=
ed to flood to its downstream stub devices - so we may end up isolating som=
e devices if any device transitions before all nodes support it).=C2=A0<u><=
/u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">The advantage of having something advertised is that=
 one can compute it centrally - and keep the per-node functionality simply =
obeying the advertised flooding graph. From an operational
 perspective, this means that one can introduce new experimental flooding t=
opology computation approaches in a manner that is decoupled from needing t=
o do software upgrades across the whole network. I can also implement non-s=
tandard flooding topology computations
 based on the network topology which could be only applicable to that parti=
cular network (consider if I wanted to do something like take into account =
shared-risk information in the algorithm to allow the most-SRLG disjoint fl=
ooding topology or so).<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">This is in addition to the points Tony made. I think=
 this centralised-computation-and-<wbr>flooded approach is elegant. If the =
error handling behaviour for not being able to parse the
 flooding topology is to revert to flooding everywhere, then it seems non-d=
estructive too.<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Cheers,<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">r.=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">=C2=A0<u></u><u></u></p>
<div>
<div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">On Fri, 6 Apr 2018 at 08:50 Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=
=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt; w=
rote:<u></u><u></u></p>
</div>
<blockquote style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0i=
n 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-=
bottom:5.0pt">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal">Hi Tony,<br>
<br>
if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to<br>
implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional<br>
algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.<br>
<br>
I have the feeling that the dependency of the &quot;flooding topology&quot;=
 on the<br>
flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of<br>
the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more<br>
then one.<br>
<br>
thanks,<br>
Peter<br>
<br>
<br>
On 06/04/18 17:19 , <a href=3D"mailto:tony.li@tony.li" target=3D"_blank">to=
ny.li@tony.li</a> wrote:<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Hi Peter,<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Thank you for your comments.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized=
<br>
&gt;&gt; computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as wel=
l:<br>
&gt;&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 1. &quot;flooding topology&quot; must be flooded. This makes the f=
looding<br>
&gt;&gt; dependent on the flooded data itself.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that=
<br>
&gt; would certainly be a bug.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; 2. The extra flooding of &quot;flooding topology&quot; adds some d=
elay in the<br>
&gt;&gt; convergence towards the new &quot;flooding topology=E2=80=9D.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology<br=
>
&gt; failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.=
<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Have you considered the distributed computation of &quot;flooding =
topology&quot;<br>
&gt;&gt; using some standardized algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical<b=
r>
&gt; issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology migh=
t<br>
&gt; be. Different administrations have different considerations and risk<b=
r>
&gt; tolerances.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between<=
br>
&gt; two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to<br=
>
&gt; detect until there is a catastrophic failure.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; I=E2=80=99m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing =
this in a<br>
&gt; centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way forw=
ard.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;&gt; Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node=
 can<br>
&gt;&gt; advertise support for several algorithms and the &quot;active&quot=
; algorithm is<br>
&gt;&gt; selected based on some criteria that would guarantee that all node=
s in<br>
&gt;&gt; the flooding domain select the same one.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Seems like that would also require some administrative input.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; So, I agree that that=E2=80=99s a technical possibility, but I think t=
hat<br>
&gt; there=E2=80=99s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to =
focus on<br>
&gt; something that we can implement more quickly.<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt; Tony<br>
&gt;<br>
&gt;<br>
<br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>
______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" target=3D"_blank">htt=
ps://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lsr</a><u></u><u></u></p>
</blockquote>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
</div>
</div></div></div>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div><br></div>

--f4030439c7b497e52b05694782de--


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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: "'Jeffrey Haas'" <jhaas@pfrc.org>, <lsr@ietf.org>, <idr@ietf.org>
References: <008101d3ca60$073f81b0$15be8510$@org.cn> <c5a4d1de5e7943318821018c138b5562@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <1B346347-9242-4EE4-BDA2-F024EF483B8A@tsinghua.org.cn> <aab65c5b06d346d2a5a4ef8cef5ad28b@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com> <8C26288C-54C3-4C04-91A6-2B99562A1DE9@cisco.com> <5AC32E8B.6090202@cisco.com> <CF9450C5-028B-4B29-9F3A-137254AFF320@previdi.net> <009b01d3cbbb$6bfc3510$43f49f30$@org.cn> <bb5ff9928fb245739ae5480b884f1edd@XCH-ALN-008.cisco.com>
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Hi, Ketan:

=20

I think there is another reason that causes this semantic error-----that =
is there is many similarities for the definition of =E2=80=9CAdj-SID =
Sub-TLV=E2=80=9D for ISIS and OSPFv3 in the following draft:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extens=
ions-11#section-6.1

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15=
#section-2.2.1

=20

but there is no any description in the relevant paragraph to  =
distinguish them in BGP-LS document.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#=
section-2.2.1

=20

Ketan explained that =E2=80=9CISIS uses 1 byte for type/length and has =
LSP space constraints which you would notice in  the protocol encodings. =
OSPF doesn=E2=80=99t have the same challenge and you would notice how =
its TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat similar to OSPF from =
these size constraints perspective.=E2=80=9D But when I compared another =
TLV definition =E2=80=9CSRMS Preference TLV=E2=80=9D in randomly, I =
found the definition in BGP-LS is different from that both in ISIS and =
OSPFv3.(include the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and =
=E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field) I don=E2=80=99t know there are how =
many inconsistence among them and think this will induce other =
inconsistencies when the vendor implements the BGP-LS protocol.

=20

Can we align these definitions as consistence as possible among them? Or =
add clear distinguish statements for the different IGP protocol?

The consumer can add some detections for such kind semantic errors but =
the better is not to produce them.

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, =
China.

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) =
[mailto:ketant@cisco.com]=20
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5 =
15:54
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Jeffrey Haas; lsr@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

=20

< including IDR WG where BGP-LS work is being done >

=20

Hi Aijun,

=20

As discussed offline, this is a bug in this particular implementation =
where it is not following the spec properly.

=20

This goes back to the discussion in the IDR WG about the semantic and =
syntactic validation for BGP-LS messages which Jeff had brought up. In =
this case, my understanding was that there was a semantic error in this =
TLV encoding? The consumer (application/BGP speaker) in this case should =
detect and ignore this update =E2=80=93 which is what was being done as =
well in this case?

=20

Thanks,

Ketan

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>=20
Sent: 04 April 2018 07:50
To: 'stefano previdi' <stefano@previdi.net>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) =
<ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; Acee =
Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for =
Segment Routing

=20

Hi, All:

=20

We have found some inconsistencies for the implementation of BGP-LS =
protocol regarding this =E2=80=9CAdj-SID SubTLV =E2=80=9D, please see =
the following screenshot.

I think we should do some works for the related drafts to clarify this =
ambiguous/easy to be ignored definition.

=20



=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, =
China.

=20

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: stefano previdi =
[mailto:stefano@previdi.net]=20
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5 =
15:39
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Acee Lindem =
(acee); Aijun Wang
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

=20

me too.=20

=20

If we want to align the encoding, we should probably better align the =
protocol name directly...

=20

s.

=20

=20

> On Apr 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Peter Psenak < <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> =
ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

>=20

> On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:

>> Speaking as WG member:

>>=20

>> I couldn=E2=80=99t agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to =
these=20

>> documents.

>=20

> as a coauthor of the OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.

>=20

> thanks,

> Peter

>=20

>>=20

>> Thanks,

>>=20

>> Acee

>>=20

>> *From: *Lsr < <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on =
behalf of "Ketan Talaulikar=20

>> (ketant)" < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com> ketant@cisco.com>

>> *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 AM

>> *To: *Aijun Wang < <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> =
wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>

>> *Cc: *" <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org" < <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
lsr@ietf.org>

>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of=20

>> "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>> Hi Aijun,

>>=20

>> I understand what you are referring to now, but these are not=20

>> inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 different protocols.=20

>> Their encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses 1 byte for=20

>> type/length and has LSP space constraints which you would notice in=20

>> the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn=E2=80=99t have the same challenge =
and you=20

>> would notice how its TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat=20

>> similar to OSPF from these size constraints perspective.

>>=20

>> I do not see the implementation challenges in encoding from the two=20

>> IGPs into BGP-LS. It does not make sense to change any of the=20

>> protocol encodings that you ask for currently since implementations=20

>> have been shipping with them for many years.

>>=20

>> IMHO it is not necessary to put such constraints for what you call=20

>> =E2=80=9Cconsistency=E2=80=9D on these 3 protocol encodings in the =
future. However,=20

>> we do try to be consistent in semantics as much as possible.

>>=20

>> Thanks,

>>=20

>> Ketan

>>=20

>> *From:*Aijun Wang < <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> =
wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>

>> *Sent:* 02 April 2018 16:52

>> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com> =
ketant@cisco.com>

>> *Cc:*  <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org

>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of=20

>> "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>> Hi, Ketan:

>>=20

>> There is one two-bytes =E2=80=9CReserved=E2=80=9D field in =
=E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment=20

>> Identifier=E2=80=9D TLV for OSPF extension, but this field =
doesn=E2=80=99t exist in=20

>> the corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every other fields are =
same.

>>=20

>> Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with OSPF(not similar=20

>> with ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then when the router=20

>> reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to BGP protocol, the=20

>> router must add two bytes to the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and =
add/stuff the=20

>> =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need =
only copy the=20

>> corresponding fields according.

>>=20

>> We have found the error arises from this inconsistency from the real=20

>> router and think it is better to align this definition in different=20

>> IGP protocol.

>>=20

>> Update to ISIS related extensions draft may be easier.

>>=20

>> Aijun Wang

>>=20

>> China Telecom

>>=20

>>=20

>> =E5=9C=A8 =
2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C18:26=EF=BC=8CKetan Talaulikar =
(ketant)=20

>> < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com%3cmailto:ketant@cisco.com> =
ketant@cisco.com<mailto:ketant@cisco.com>> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A

>>=20

>>    Hi Aijun,

>>=20

>>    Can you clarify what you mean by =
=E2=80=9Cinconsistencies=E2=80=9D?

>>=20

>>    Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before =
it

>>    was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex

>> tensions-11#section-6.1

>>=20

>>    OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are some =
differences

>>    between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS spec

>>    refers to the individual IGP drafts for interpretation of flags. =
So

>>    please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring =
to.

>>=20

>>    Thanks,

>>=20

>>    Ketan

>>=20

>>    *From:*Lsr < =
<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> *On

>>    Behalf Of *Aijun Wang

>>    *Sent:* 02 April 2018 14:23

>>    *To:*  <mailto:lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

>>    *Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID

>>    Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>>    Hi, All:

>>=20

>>    We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of

>>    =E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for

>>    segment routing, please see the link below for comparison.

>>=20

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension

>> s-15#section-2.2.1

>>=20

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex

>> tensions-10#section-7.1

>>=20

>>    Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? =
We

>>    think this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS

>>    implementation for segment routing extension, as that defined in

>>     =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04=
#section-2.2.1> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#=
section-2.2.1,

>>    which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different from =
OSPF

>>    extension for SR.

>>=20

>>    Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition

>>    in OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing related =
drafts.

>>=20

>>    Best Regards.

>>=20

>>    Aijun Wang

>>=20

>>    Network R&D and Operation Support Department

>>=20

>>    China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research

>>    Institute,Beijing, China.

>>=20

>>    _______________________________________________

>>    Lsr mailing list

>>     <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:Lsr@ietf.org> =
Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>>=20

>>=20

>>=20

>> _______________________________________________

>> Lsr mailing list

>>  <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

>>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>>=20

>=20

> _______________________________________________

> Lsr mailing list

>  <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

=20

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

 <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

 <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hi, Ketan:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I think =
there is another reason that causes this semantic error-----that is =
there is many similarities for the definition of =E2=80=9CAdj-SID =
Sub-TLV=E2=80=9D for ISIS and OSPFv3 in the following =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-extensions-11#section-6.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-=
ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-11#section-6.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exten=
sions-15#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segme=
nt-routing-extensions-15#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>but there =
is no any description in the relevant paragraph to =C2=A0distinguish =
them in BGP-LS document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-=
segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ketan =
explained that =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>ISIS uses 1 byte for =
type/length and has LSP space constraints which you would notice in =
=C2=A0the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
have the same challenge and you would notice how its TLVs tend to be =
aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat similar to OSPF from these size constraints =
perspective.</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9D =
But when I compared another TLV definition =E2=80=9CSRMS Preference =
TLV=E2=80=9D in randomly, I found the definition in BGP-LS is different =
from that both in ISIS and OSPFv3.(include the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D =
field and =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field) I don=E2=80=99t know there =
are how many inconsistence among them and think this will induce other =
inconsistencies when the vendor implements the BGP-LS =
protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Can we =
align these definitions as consistence as possible among them? Or add =
clear distinguish statements for the different IGP =
protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The consumer can add some =
detections for such kind semantic errors but the better is not to =
produce them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Network R&amp;D and Operation Support =
Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing =
Research Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> Ketan =
Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] <br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>4</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 15:54<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Aijun =
Wang<br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US> Jeffrey Haas; lsr@ietf.org; =
idr@ietf.org<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence =
regarding the definition of &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for Segment =
Routing<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&lt; including IDR =
WG where BGP-LS work is being done &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As discussed offline, this is a =
bug in this particular implementation where it is not following the spec =
properly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This goes back to the =
discussion in the IDR WG about the semantic and syntactic validation for =
BGP-LS messages which Jeff had brought up. In this case, my =
understanding was that there was a semantic error in this TLV encoding? =
The consumer (application/BGP speaker) in this case should detect and =
ignore this update =E2=80=93 which is what was being done as well in =
this case?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t; <br><b>Sent:</b> 04 April 2018 07:50<br><b>To:</b> 'stefano previdi' =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stefano@previdi.net">stefano@previdi.net</a>&gt;; =
Peter Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-IN><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi, All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have found some inconsistencies for the implementation =
of BGP-LS protocol regarding this </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Adj-SID SubTLV </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US>, =
please see the following screenshot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>I think we should do some works =
for the related drafts to clarify this ambiguous/easy to be ignored =
definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><img border=3D0 width=3D818 height=3D316 =
id=3D"_x0000_i1037" =
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01D3CF17.F0542480"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Network R&amp;D and Operation Support =
Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research =
Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>-----</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=
=B6</span><span lang=3DEN-US>-----<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US>: stefano previdi [<a =
href=3D"mailto:stefano@previdi.net">mailto:stefano@previdi.net</a>] =
<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=
=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US>: 2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>3</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 15:39<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US>: Peter Psenak<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>: <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; Ketan =
Talaulikar (ketant); Acee Lindem (acee); Aijun Wang<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
&quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment =
Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>me too. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>If we want to align the encoding, we should probably better =
align the protocol name directly...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>s.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; On Apr 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, =
Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ppsenak@cisco.com</span><=
/a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Speaking as WG member:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I couldn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to these =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; as a coauthor of the =
OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *From: *Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</spa=
n></a>&gt; on behalf of &quot;Ketan Talaulikar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; (ketant)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com</span></=
a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *To: *Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a>&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Hi Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I understand what you are referring to now, but =
these are not <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 =
different protocols. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Their encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses =
1 byte for <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; type/length and has LSP space constraints which =
you would notice in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t have the same challenge and you <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; would notice how its =
TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; similar to OSPF from =
these size constraints perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I do not see the implementation challenges in =
encoding from the two <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IGPs into BGP-LS. It =
does not make sense to change any of the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; protocol encodings that =
you ask for currently since implementations <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; have been shipping with =
them for many years.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IMHO it is not =
necessary to put such constraints for what you call =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>consistency</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
on these 3 protocol encodings in the future. However, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; we do try to be consistent in semantics as much as =
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *From:*Aijun Wang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Sent:* 02 April 2018 =
16:52<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com</span></=
a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
*Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Hi, Ketan:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; There is one two-bytes </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Reserved</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field in </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>Adjacency Segment =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Identifier</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
TLV for OSPF extension, but this field doesn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
exist in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; the corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every =
other fields are same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with =
OSPF(not similar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; with ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then =
when the router <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to =
BGP protocol, the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; router must add two bytes to the </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>length</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field and add/stuff the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>reserved</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need only copy the =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; corresponding fields =
according.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; We have found the error =
arises from this inconsistency from the real <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; router and think it is =
better to align this definition in different <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IGP =
protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Update to ISIS related =
extensions draft may be easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; China Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=9C=A8</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>2</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>18:26</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=EF=BC=8C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com%3cmailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com&lt;mailt=
o:ketant@cisco.com</span></a>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi =
Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Can =
you clarify what you mean by </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>inconsistencies</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, =
you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR =
draft. Please check<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-ex"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
tensions-11#section-6.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OSPF and ISIS are different =
protocols and there are some differences<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS =
spec<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; refers to the individual IGP =
drafts for interpretation of flags. So<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
*From:*Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr-bounces@ietf.org&lt;m=
ailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt; =
*On<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Behalf Of *Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *Sent:* 02 April 2018 =
14:23<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *To:* <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ls=
r@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
*Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
&quot;Adj-SID<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi, All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We found there were some =
inconsistences for the definition of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>Adjacency Segment =
Identifier</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; segment routing, please see the =
link below for comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exten=
sion"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
s-15#section-2.2.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-ex"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
tensions-10#section-7.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Here we want to know is there =
any reason for this inconsistence? We<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; think =
this inconsistence can easily cause error for =
BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; implementation for segment =
routing extension, as that defined in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-2.2.1"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1</span></a>,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; which is similar with ISIS =
extension for SR, but different from OSPF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
extension for SR.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do we =
need to make them consistent? It seems change the =
definition<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in OSPF extension may be less =
influence for the existing related drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: "'Jeffrey Haas'" <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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From nobody Mon Apr  9 06:18:01 2018
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using IS-IS
        Authors         : Jeff Tantsura
                          Uma Chunduri
                          Sam Aldrin
                          Les Ginsberg
	Filename        : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
	Pages           : 9
	Date            : 2018-04-09

Abstract:
   This document defines a way for an IS-IS Router to advertise multiple
   types of supported Maximum SID Depths (MSDs) at node and/or link
   granularity.  Such advertisements allow entities (e.g., centralized
   controllers) to determine whether a particular SID stack can be
   supported in a given network.  This document only defines one type of
   MSD maximum label imposition, but defines an encoding that can
   support other MSD types.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-10
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-10

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-msd-10


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


From nobody Mon Apr  9 08:57:24 2018
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Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2018 17:57:18 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG IPR Query for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt (one more @#$ time)
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Hi Acee,

I'm not aware of any IPR related to this draft.

thanks,
Peter

On 06/04/18 03:27 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Authors,
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" <draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: IPR Call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2018 19:41:59 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: John E Drake <jdrake@juniper.net>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" <draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] IPR Call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2018 19:56:17 +0000
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From: Paul Wells <pauwells@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Support (as an implementer of the existing rfc7810).

Paul Wells

On 04/09/2018 02:20 PM, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>
> This draft simply fixes a problem in RFC 7810 that resulted in an 
> incompatibility issue with implementations. Given the simplicity of 
> this document, I’d like to have an abbreviated WG adoption call of one 
> week. Please indicate your support or objections to this document by 
> April 17^th , 2018.
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
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    Support (as an implementer of the existing rfc7810).<br>
    <br>
    Paul Wells<br>
    <br>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/09/2018 02:20 PM, Acee Lindem
      (acee) wrote:<br>
    </div>
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        <p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:16.0pt">This draft
            simply fixes a problem in RFC 7810 that resulted in an
            incompatibility issue with implementations. Given the
            simplicity of this document, I’d like to have an abbreviated
            WG adoption call of one week. Please indicate your support
            or objections to this document by April 17<sup>th</sup>,
            2018.  <o:p></o:p></span></p>
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Lsr mailing list
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<a class="moz-txt-link-freetext" href="https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr</a>
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: Stefano Previdi <stefano@previdi.net>
Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2018 21:02:55 +0000
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" <draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org>, lsr@ietf.org
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/9LI92vCItFfWJ-0Ee5yPZqdQ-fY>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Hi Acee, all,

I'm not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this draft.

Thanks.
s.

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 9:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Authors,
>
>
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to
> draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 in addition to the IPR declared on
> RFC 7810:
>
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=draft&id=draft-ietf-isis-te-metric-extensions
>
>
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see
> RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
>
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR.
> *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The document
> will not advance to the next stage until a response has been received from
> each author and contributor.
>
>
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>

--00000000000073f693056970bb5c
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
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<div dir=3D"auto"><div>Hi Acee, all,</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div =
dir=3D"auto">I&#39;m not aware of any undisclosed IPR related to this draft=
.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks.=C2=A0</d=
iv><div dir=3D"auto">s.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div=
 dir=3D"ltr">On Mon, Apr 9, 2018, 9:39 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote =
class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid=
;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"m_-1103794387867763889WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">Authors=
,=C2=A0</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">Are you=
 aware of any IPR that applies to draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 in =
addition to the IPR declared on RFC 7810:<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black"><a href=
=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&amp;id=3Ddraft-=
ietf-isis-te-metric-extensions" target=3D"_blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https:=
//datatracker.ietf.org/ipr/search/?submit=3Ddraft&amp;id=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-=
te-metric-extensions</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black"><u></u>=
=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">If so, =
has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules (see RFCs 397=
9, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).</span><span style=3D"color:black"=
><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">If you =
are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to this email=
 regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant IPR. *The respo=
nse needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing
 list.* The document will not advance to the next stage until a response ha=
s been received from each author and contributor.</span><span style=3D"colo=
r:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">If you =
are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or contributor=
, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any IPR that has =
not yet been disclosed in conformance
 with IETF rules.</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">=C2=A0<=
/span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">Thanks,=
</span><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt;color:black">Acee</s=
pan><span style=3D"color:black"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>

</blockquote></div></div></div>

--00000000000073f693056970bb5c--


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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" <draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR Call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: Qin Wu <bill.wu@huawei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org" <draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: IPR Call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00 
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Support!

Regards,
Jeff

> On Apr 9, 2018, at 21:20, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:
>=20
> This draft simply fixes a problem in RFC 7810 that resulted in an incompat=
ibility issue with implementations. Given the simplicity of this document, I=
=E2=80=99d like to have an abbreviated WG adoption call of one week. Please i=
ndicate your support or objections to this document by April 17th, 2018. =20=

> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Support!<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignatu=
re">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></div><div><br>On Apr 9, 2018, at 21:20, Acee Lin=
dem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrot=
e:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">This draft simply fi=
xes a problem in RFC 7810 that resulted in an incompatibility issue with imp=
lementations. Given the simplicity of this document, I=E2=80=99d like to hav=
e an abbreviated WG adoption call of one
 week. Please indicate your support or objections to this document by April 1=
7<sup>th</sup>, 2018. &nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee <o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
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tinfo/lsr</a></span><br></div></blockquote></body></html>=

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From nobody Tue Apr 10 01:16:19 2018
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From: "Aijun Wang" <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
To: "'Ketan Talaulikar \(ketant\)'" <ketant@cisco.com>
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Hi, Ketan:

=20

I read through the section that you provided at =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#=
section-3, and think 3/4 parts of them are unnecessary because the =
contents of 3.1,3.2 and 3.3 has been mentioned at the corresponding TLV =
definition parts. Only 3.4 part is necessary because it mentions the =
composite usage of two TLVs and can=E2=80=99t fit in any previous TLV =
definition.

=20

My suggestion is that we add some clarification under the error-prone =
TLV definition respectively, to let the vendor refer them clearly when =
implementing the BGP-LS protocol.=20

=20

ISIS/OSPF/OSPFv3/BGP-LS are different protocols in mainly the mechanism =
to transfer/digest the message, not the extensible TLVs definition, =
especially for the same purpose TLVs. There are some reasons that need =
to keep the definition compact/different, but beyond that, we should =
align them as same as possible to eliminate the error arose from =
inter-operation activities among different vendor or between device =
vendor and the SDN controller.

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, =
China.

=20

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) =
[mailto:ketant@cisco.com]=20
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=889=E6=97=A5 =
16:45
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: 'Jeffrey Haas'; lsr@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

=20

Hi Aijun,

=20

As responded previously and also clarified by few others, the 3 IGP =
protocols (ISIS, OSPFv2 and OSPFv3) and BGP-LS are different protocols. =
Their encodings need not be identical. However, their semantics =
generally are so when it comes mapping them into BGP-LS.

=20

At this stage, given the advance state of implementations and =
deployments for all these IGP and BGP-LS drafts involved, I =
don=E2=80=99t think we can undertake such =E2=80=9Ccosmetic=E2=80=9D =
changes.

=20

However, the draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04 is in WGLC and =
I can definitely take your feedback for any updates in the text or =
clarifications necessary in this document. Note that the procedures for =
the TLVs where mappings were non-trivial are described in the Procedures =
section - =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#=
section-3 . The TLVs you mention below are very trivial and the mapping =
from IGPs to BGP-LS is straightforward so the authors believe the =
explanation in Section 2 where each TLV field is described is =
sufficient.=20

=20

In the end, I am not sure if any of this helps/addresses implementation =
defects (where the reserved field itself was skipped from the BGP-LS =
TLV) that you have identified in your deployment on the producer side.

=20

Thanks,

Ketan

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>=20
Sent: 08 April 2018 07:02
To: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>
Cc: 'Jeffrey Haas' <jhaas@pfrc.org>; lsr@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for =
Segment Routing

=20

Hi, Ketan:

=20

I think there is another reason that causes this semantic error-----that =
is there is many similarities for the definition of =E2=80=9CAdj-SID =
Sub-TLV=E2=80=9D for ISIS and OSPFv3 in the following draft:

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extens=
ions-11#section-6.1

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-15=
#section-2.2.1

=20

but there is no any description in the relevant paragraph to  =
distinguish them in BGP-LS document.

https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#=
section-2.2.1

=20

Ketan explained that =E2=80=9CISIS uses 1 byte for type/length and has =
LSP space constraints which you would notice in  the protocol encodings. =
OSPF doesn=E2=80=99t have the same challenge and you would notice how =
its TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat similar to OSPF from =
these size constraints perspective.=E2=80=9D But when I compared another =
TLV definition =E2=80=9CSRMS Preference TLV=E2=80=9D in randomly, I =
found the definition in BGP-LS is different from that both in ISIS and =
OSPFv3.(include the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and =
=E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field) I don=E2=80=99t know there are how =
many inconsistence among them and think this will induce other =
inconsistencies when the vendor implements the BGP-LS protocol.

=20

Can we align these definitions as consistence as possible among them? Or =
add clear distinguish statements for the different IGP protocol?

The consumer can add some detections for such kind semantic errors but =
the better is not to produce them.

=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, =
China.

=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) =
[mailto:ketant@cisco.com]=20
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=884=E6=97=A5 =
15:54
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Aijun Wang
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: Jeffrey Haas; lsr@ietf.org; idr@ietf.org
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

=20

< including IDR WG where BGP-LS work is being done >

=20

Hi Aijun,

=20

As discussed offline, this is a bug in this particular implementation =
where it is not following the spec properly.

=20

This goes back to the discussion in the IDR WG about the semantic and =
syntactic validation for BGP-LS messages which Jeff had brought up. In =
this case, my understanding was that there was a semantic error in this =
TLV encoding? The consumer (application/BGP speaker) in this case should =
detect and ignore this update =E2=80=93 which is what was being done as =
well in this case?

=20

Thanks,

Ketan

=20

From: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>=20
Sent: 04 April 2018 07:50
To: 'stefano previdi' <stefano@previdi.net>; Peter Psenak (ppsenak) =
<ppsenak@cisco.com>
Cc: lsr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <ketant@cisco.com>; Acee =
Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>
Subject: =E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for =
Segment Routing

=20

Hi, All:

=20

We have found some inconsistencies for the implementation of BGP-LS =
protocol regarding this =E2=80=9CAdj-SID SubTLV =E2=80=9D, please see =
the following screenshot.

I think we should do some works for the related drafts to clarify this =
ambiguous/easy to be ignored definition.

=20



=20

=20

Best Regards.

=20

Aijun Wang

Network R&D and Operation Support Department

China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research Institute,Beijing, =
China.

=20

-----=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=B6-----
=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: stefano previdi =
[mailto:stefano@previdi.net]=20
=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4: 2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=883=E6=97=A5 =
15:39
=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA: Peter Psenak
=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81: lsr@ietf.org; Ketan Talaulikar (ketant); Acee Lindem =
(acee); Aijun Wang
=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

=20

me too.=20

=20

If we want to align the encoding, we should probably better align the =
protocol name directly...

=20

s.

=20

=20

> On Apr 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, Peter Psenak < <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com> =
ppsenak@cisco.com> wrote:

>=20

> On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:

>> Speaking as WG member:

>>=20

>> I couldn=E2=80=99t agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to =
these=20

>> documents.

>=20

> as a coauthor of the OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.

>=20

> thanks,

> Peter

>=20

>>=20

>> Thanks,

>>=20

>> Acee

>>=20

>> *From: *Lsr < <mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on =
behalf of "Ketan Talaulikar=20

>> (ketant)" < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com> ketant@cisco.com>

>> *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 AM

>> *To: *Aijun Wang < <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> =
wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>

>> *Cc: *" <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org" < <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
lsr@ietf.org>

>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of=20

>> "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>> Hi Aijun,

>>=20

>> I understand what you are referring to now, but these are not=20

>> inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 different protocols.=20

>> Their encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses 1 byte for=20

>> type/length and has LSP space constraints which you would notice in=20

>> the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn=E2=80=99t have the same challenge =
and you=20

>> would notice how its TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat=20

>> similar to OSPF from these size constraints perspective.

>>=20

>> I do not see the implementation challenges in encoding from the two=20

>> IGPs into BGP-LS. It does not make sense to change any of the=20

>> protocol encodings that you ask for currently since implementations=20

>> have been shipping with them for many years.

>>=20

>> IMHO it is not necessary to put such constraints for what you call=20

>> =E2=80=9Cconsistency=E2=80=9D on these 3 protocol encodings in the =
future. However,=20

>> we do try to be consistent in semantics as much as possible.

>>=20

>> Thanks,

>>=20

>> Ketan

>>=20

>> *From:*Aijun Wang < <mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn> =
wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>

>> *Sent:* 02 April 2018 16:52

>> *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com> =
ketant@cisco.com>

>> *Cc:*  <mailto:lsr@ietf.org> lsr@ietf.org

>> *Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of=20

>> "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>> Hi, Ketan:

>>=20

>> There is one two-bytes =E2=80=9CReserved=E2=80=9D field in =
=E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment=20

>> Identifier=E2=80=9D TLV for OSPF extension, but this field =
doesn=E2=80=99t exist in=20

>> the corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every other fields are =
same.

>>=20

>> Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with OSPF(not similar=20

>> with ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then when the router=20

>> reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to BGP protocol, the=20

>> router must add two bytes to the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and =
add/stuff the=20

>> =E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need =
only copy the=20

>> corresponding fields according.

>>=20

>> We have found the error arises from this inconsistency from the real=20

>> router and think it is better to align this definition in different=20

>> IGP protocol.

>>=20

>> Update to ISIS related extensions draft may be easier.

>>=20

>> Aijun Wang

>>=20

>> China Telecom

>>=20

>>=20

>> =E5=9C=A8 =
2018=E5=B9=B44=E6=9C=882=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C18:26=EF=BC=8CKetan Talaulikar =
(ketant)=20

>> < <mailto:ketant@cisco.com%3cmailto:ketant@cisco.com> =
ketant@cisco.com<mailto:ketant@cisco.com>> =E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A

>>=20

>>    Hi Aijun,

>>=20

>>    Can you clarify what you mean by =
=E2=80=9Cinconsistencies=E2=80=9D?

>>=20

>>    Also, you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before =
it

>>    was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR draft. Please check

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex

>> tensions-11#section-6.1

>>=20

>>    OSPF and ISIS are different protocols and there are some =
differences

>>    between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS spec

>>    refers to the individual IGP drafts for interpretation of flags. =
So

>>    please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring =
to.

>>=20

>>    Thanks,

>>=20

>>    Ketan

>>=20

>>    *From:*Lsr < =
<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org> =
lsr-bounces@ietf.org<mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org>> *On

>>    Behalf Of *Aijun Wang

>>    *Sent:* 02 April 2018 14:23

>>    *To:*  <mailto:lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr@ietf.org> =
lsr@ietf.org<mailto:lsr@ietf.org>

>>    *Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
"Adj-SID

>>    Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing

>>=20

>>    Hi, All:

>>=20

>>    We found there were some inconsistences for the definition of

>>    =E2=80=9CAdjacency Segment Identifier=E2=80=9D between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for

>>    segment routing, please see the link below for comparison.

>>=20

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension

>> s-15#section-2.2.1

>>=20

>>   =20

>>  =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex

>> tensions-10#section-7.1

>>=20

>>    Here we want to know is there any reason for this inconsistence? =
We

>>    think this inconsistence can easily cause error for BGP-LS

>>    implementation for segment routing extension, as that defined in

>>     =
<https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04=
#section-2.2.1> =
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#=
section-2.2.1,

>>    which is similar with ISIS extension for SR, but different from =
OSPF

>>    extension for SR.

>>=20

>>    Do we need to make them consistent? It seems change the definition

>>    in OSPF extension may be less influence for the existing related =
drafts.

>>=20

>>    Best Regards.

>>=20

>>    Aijun Wang

>>=20

>>    Network R&D and Operation Support Department

>>=20

>>    China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research

>>    Institute,Beijing, China.

>>=20

>>    _______________________________________________

>>    Lsr mailing list

>>     <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:Lsr@ietf.org> =
Lsr@ietf.org<mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>

>>     <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>>=20

>>=20

>>=20

>> _______________________________________________

>> Lsr mailing list

>>  <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

>>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

>>=20

>=20

> _______________________________________________

> Lsr mailing list

>  <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

>  <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr> =
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

=20

_______________________________________________

Lsr mailing list

 <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org> Lsr@ietf.org

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<o:shapedefaults v:ext=3D"edit" spidmax=3D"1026" />
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<o:shapelayout v:ext=3D"edit">
<o:idmap v:ext=3D"edit" data=3D"1" />
</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=3DZH-CN link=3Dblue =
vlink=3Dpurple style=3D'text-justify-trim:punctuation'><div =
class=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hi, Ketan:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I read =
through the section that you provided at </span><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-3">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segm=
ent-routing-ext-04#section-3</a></span><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>, and think 3/4 parts of them =
are unnecessary because the contents of 3.1,3.2 and 3.3 has been =
mentioned at the corresponding TLV definition parts. Only 3.4 part is =
necessary because it mentions the composite usage of two TLVs and =
can=E2=80=99t fit in any previous TLV =
definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>My suggestion is that we add =
some clarification under the error-prone TLV definition respectively, to =
let the vendor refer them clearly when implementing the BGP-LS protocol. =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>ISIS/OSPF/OSPFv3/BGP-LS are =
different protocols in mainly the mechanism to transfer/digest the =
message, not the extensible TLVs definition, especially for the same =
purpose TLVs. There are some reasons that need to keep the definition =
compact/different, but beyond that, we should align them as same as =
possible to eliminate the error arose from inter-operation activities =
among different vendor or between device vendor and the SDN =
controller.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Network R&amp;D and Operation Support =
Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing =
Research Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> Ketan =
Talaulikar (ketant) [mailto:ketant@cisco.com] <br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4<span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span>=E6=9C=88<span lang=3DEN-US>9</span>=E6=97=A5<span =
lang=3DEN-US> 16:45<br></span><b>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Aijun =
Wang<br></span><b>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81<span lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 'Jeffrey Haas'; lsr@ietf.org; =
idr@ietf.org<br></span><b>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98<span =
lang=3DEN-US>:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US> Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence =
regarding the definition of &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for Segment =
Routing<o:p></o:p></span></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As responded previously and =
also clarified by few others, the 3 IGP protocols (ISIS, OSPFv2 and =
OSPFv3) and BGP-LS are different protocols. Their encodings need not be =
identical. However, their semantics generally are so when it comes =
mapping them into BGP-LS.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>At this stage, given the =
advance state of implementations and deployments for all these IGP and =
BGP-LS drafts involved, I don=E2=80=99t think we can undertake such =
=E2=80=9Ccosmetic=E2=80=9D changes.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>However, the =
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04 is in WGLC and I can =
definitely take your feedback for any updates in the text or =
clarifications necessary in this document. Note that the procedures for =
the TLVs where mappings were non-trivial are described in the Procedures =
section - <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-3">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segm=
ent-routing-ext-04#section-3</a> . The TLVs you mention below are very =
trivial and the mapping from IGPs to BGP-LS is straightforward so the =
authors believe the explanation in Section 2 where each TLV field is =
described is sufficient. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>In the end, I am not sure if =
any of this helps/addresses implementation defects (where the reserved =
field itself was skipped from the BGP-LS TLV) that you have identified =
in your deployment on the producer side.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t; <br><b>Sent:</b> 08 April 2018 07:02<br><b>To:</b> Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b> =
'Jeffrey Haas' &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:jhaas@pfrc.org">jhaas@pfrc.org</a>&gt;; <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br><b>Subject:</b> =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-IN><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Hi, Ketan:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>I think =
there is another reason that causes this semantic error-----that is =
there is many similarities for the definition of =E2=80=9CAdj-SID =
Sub-TLV=E2=80=9D for ISIS and OSPFv3 in the following =
draft:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-extensions-11#section-6.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-=
ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-11#section-6.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exten=
sions-15#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segme=
nt-routing-extensions-15#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>but there =
is no any description in the relevant paragraph to &nbsp;distinguish =
them in BGP-LS document.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-2.2.1">https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-=
segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1</a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Ketan =
explained that =E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>ISIS uses 1 byte for =
type/length and has LSP space constraints which you would notice in =
&nbsp;the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
have the same challenge and you would notice how its TLVs tend to be =
aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat similar to OSPF from these size constraints =
perspective.<span style=3D'color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9D But when I compared =
another TLV definition =E2=80=9CSRMS Preference TLV=E2=80=9D in =
randomly, I found the definition in BGP-LS is different from that both =
in ISIS and OSPFv3.(include the =E2=80=9Clength=E2=80=9D field and =
=E2=80=9Creserved=E2=80=9D field) I don=E2=80=99t know there are how =
many inconsistence among them and think this will induce other =
inconsistencies when the vendor implements the BGP-LS =
protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Can we =
align these definitions as consistence as possible among them? Or add =
clear distinguish statements for the different IGP =
protocol?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>The consumer can add some =
detections for such kind semantic errors but the better is not to =
produce them.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>Network R&amp;D and Operation Support =
Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'color:#1F497D'>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing =
Research Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><div><div =
style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm =
0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>:</span></b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> Ketan =
Talaulikar (ketant) [<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com">mailto:ketant@cisco.com</a>] =
<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=
=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=B4</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>:</span></b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span=
><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> =
15:54<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=
=B6=E4=BA=BA</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>:</span></b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> Aijun =
Wang<br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=
=81</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>:</span></b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> Jeffrey Haas; =
<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; <a =
href=3D"mailto:idr@ietf.org">idr@ietf.org</a><br></span><b><span =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=
=98</span></b><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>:</span></b><sp=
an lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:10.0pt;font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'> Re: [Lsr] =
Inconsistence regarding the definition of &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; =
between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment =
Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal =
align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-IN style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&lt; including IDR =
WG where BGP-LS work is being done &gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi =
Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>As discussed offline, this is a =
bug in this particular implementation where it is not following the spec =
properly.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>This goes back to the =
discussion in the IDR WG about the semantic and syntactic validation for =
BGP-LS messages which Jeff had brought up. In this case, my =
understanding was that there was a semantic error in this TLV encoding? =
The consumer (application/BGP speaker) in this case should detect and =
ignore this update =E2=80=93 which is what was being done as well in =
this case?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-IN =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><div=
><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt =
0cm 0cm 0cm'><p class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft =
style=3D'text-align:left'><b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn">wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn</a>&g=
t; <br><b>Sent:</b> 04 April 2018 07:50<br><b>To:</b> 'stefano previdi' =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:stefano@previdi.net">stefano@previdi.net</a>&gt;; =
Peter Psenak (ppsenak) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com">ppsenak@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Cc:</b>=
 <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; Ketan Talaulikar =
(ketant) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com">ketant@cisco.com</a>&gt;; Acee Lindem =
(acee) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt;<br><b>Subject:</b> =
</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"MS =
Gothic"'>=E7=AD=94=E5=A4=8D</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p =
class=3DMsoNormal align=3Dleft style=3D'text-align:left'><span =
lang=3DEN-IN><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Hi, All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>We have found some inconsistencies for the implementation =
of BGP-LS protocol regarding this </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Adj-SID SubTLV </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US>, =
please see the following screenshot.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>I think we should do some works =
for the related drafts to clarify this ambiguous/easy to be ignored =
definition.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><img border=3D0 width=3D818 height=3D316 =
id=3D"_x0000_i1025" =
src=3D"cid:image001.png@01D3D0E4.CE2C5890"><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span lang=3DEN-US>Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Network R&amp;D and Operation Support =
Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
lang=3DEN-US>China Telecom Corporation Limited Beijing Research =
Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>-----</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E9=82=AE=E4=BB=B6=E5=8E=9F=E4=BB=
=B6</span><span lang=3DEN-US>-----<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US>: stefano previdi [<a =
href=3D"mailto:stefano@previdi.net">mailto:stefano@previdi.net</a>] =
<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=8F=91=E9=80=81=E6=97=B6=E9=97=
=B4</span><span lang=3DEN-US>: 2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>3</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 15:39<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=94=B6=E4=BB=B6=E4=BA=BA</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US>: Peter Psenak<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=8A=84=E9=80=81</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>: <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a>; Ketan =
Talaulikar (ketant); Acee Lindem (acee); Aijun Wang<br></span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E4=B8=BB=E9=A2=98</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
&quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment =
Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>me too. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>If we want to align the encoding, we should probably better =
align the protocol name directly...<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>s.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; On Apr 3, 2018, at 9:34 AM, =
Peter Psenak &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ppsenak@cisco.com</span><=
/a>&gt; wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; On 02/04/18 14:19 , Acee Lindem (acee) =
wrote:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Speaking as WG member:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I couldn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
agree more with Ketan. No changes are required to these =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; documents.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; as a coauthor of the =
OSPF/OSPFv3 SR drafts, I fully agree.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Peter<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Acee<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *From: *Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr-bounces@ietf.org</spa=
n></a>&gt; on behalf of &quot;Ketan Talaulikar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; (ketant)&quot; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com</span></=
a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Date: *Monday, April 2, 2018 at 7:36 =
AM<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *To: *Aijun Wang &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Cc: *&quot;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a>&q=
uot; &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a>&g=
t;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the =
definition of <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Hi Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I understand what you are referring to now, but =
these are not <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; inconsistencies. ISIS, OSPF and BGP-LS are 3 =
different protocols. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Their encodings may not all be the same. ISIS uses =
1 byte for <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; type/length and has LSP space constraints which =
you would notice in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; the protocol encodings. OSPF doesn</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>t have the same challenge and you <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; would notice how its =
TLVs tend to be aligned. BGP-LS is somewhat <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; similar to OSPF from =
these size constraints perspective.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; I do not see the implementation challenges in =
encoding from the two <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IGPs into BGP-LS. It =
does not make sense to change any of the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; protocol encodings that =
you ask for currently since implementations <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; have been shipping with =
them for many years.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IMHO it is not =
necessary to put such constraints for what you call =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>consistency</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
on these 3 protocol encodings in the future. However, =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; we do try to be consistent in semantics as much as =
possible.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *From:*Aijun Wang =
&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn=
</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Sent:* 02 April 2018 =
16:52<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *To:* Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com</span></=
a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; *Cc:* <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
*Subject:* Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &quot;Adj-SID Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Hi, Ketan:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; There is one two-bytes </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Reserved</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field in </span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>Adjacency Segment =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Identifier</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
TLV for OSPF extension, but this field doesn</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=99</span><span lang=3DEN-US>t =
exist in <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; the corresponding TLV for ISIS extension. Every =
other fields are same.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Corresponding definition in BGP-LS is similar with =
OSPF(not similar <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; with ISIS as I mentioned in previous mail). Then =
when the router <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; reports/redistributes the ISIS LSDB information to =
BGP protocol, the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; router must add two bytes to the </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>length</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field and add/stuff the <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>reserved</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> =
field; but for OSPF LSDB, the router need only copy the =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; corresponding fields =
according.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; We have found the error =
arises from this inconsistency from the real <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; router and think it is =
better to align this definition in different <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; IGP =
protocol.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Update to ISIS related =
extensions draft may be easier.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Aijun Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; China Telecom<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=9C=A8</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US> 2018</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=B9=B4</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>4</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=9C=88</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>2</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E6=97=A5=EF=BC=8C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>18:26</span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=EF=BC=8C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>Ketan Talaulikar (ketant) <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:ketant@cisco.com%3cmailto:ketant@cisco.com"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>ketant@cisco.com&lt;mailt=
o:ketant@cisco.com</span></a>&gt;&gt; </span><span =
style=3D'font-family:=E5=AE=8B=E4=BD=93'>=E5=86=99=E9=81=93=EF=BC=9A</spa=
n><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi =
Aijun,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Can =
you clarify what you mean by </span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>inconsistencies</span><span lang=3DEN-US =
style=3D'font-family:"Courier New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span =
lang=3DEN-US>?<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Also, =
you are referring the old version of OSPFv3 SR draft before =
it<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; was aligned with the OSPFv2 SR =
draft. Please check<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-ex"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
tensions-11#section-6.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; OSPF and ISIS are different =
protocols and there are some differences<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
between them. I would not call them inconsistencies. BGP-LS =
spec<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; refers to the individual IGP =
drafts for interpretation of flags. So<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
please specifically point out what inconsistency you are referring =
to.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Thanks,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Ketan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
*From:*Lsr &lt;<a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr-bounces@ietf.org&lt;m=
ailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;&gt; =
*On<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Behalf Of *Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *Sent:* 02 April 2018 =
14:23<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; *To:* <a =
href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>lsr@ietf.org&lt;mailto:ls=
r@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
*Subject:* [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of =
&quot;Adj-SID<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Sub-TLV&quot; between OSPF and =
ISIS extension for Segment Routing<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Hi, All:<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; We found there were some =
inconsistences for the definition of<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9C</span><span lang=3DEN-US>Adjacency Segment =
Identifier</span><span lang=3DEN-US style=3D'font-family:"Courier =
New"'>=E2=80=9D</span><span lang=3DEN-US> between OSPF and ISIS =
extension for<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; segment routing, please see the =
link below for comparison.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exten=
sion"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
s-15#section-2.2.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routin=
g-ex"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-ex</span></a><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
tensions-10#section-7.1<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Here we want to know is there =
any reason for this inconsistence? We<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; think =
this inconsistence can easily cause error for =
BGP-LS<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; implementation for segment =
routing extension, as that defined in<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing=
-ext-04#section-2.2.1"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://tools.ietf.org/ht=
ml/draft-ietf-idr-bgp-ls-segment-routing-ext-04#section-2.2.1</span></a>,=
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; which is similar with ISIS =
extension for SR, but different from OSPF<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
extension for SR.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Do we =
need to make them consistent? It seems change the =
definition<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; in OSPF extension may be less =
influence for the existing related drafts.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Best =
Regards.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Aijun =
Wang<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Network R&amp;D and Operation Support Department<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; China Telecom Corporation =
Limited Beijing Research<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
Institute,Beijing, China.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; Lsr =
mailing list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org%3cmailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org&lt;mailto:Ls=
r@ietf.org</span></a>&gt;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt;&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; =
_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>&gt; <a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoPlainText><span =
lang=3DEN-US>_______________________________________________<o:p></o:p></=
span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US>Lsr mailing =
list<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>Lsr@ietf.org</span></a><o=
:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoPlainText><span lang=3DEN-US><a =
href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr"><span =
style=3D'color:windowtext;text-decoration:none'>https://www.ietf.org/mail=
man/listinfo/lsr</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></body></html>
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Aijun Wang <wangaijun@tsinghua.org.cn>
CC: "'Jeffrey Haas'" <jhaas@pfrc.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "idr@ietf.org" <idr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Inconsistence regarding the definition of "Adj-SID Sub-TLV" between OSPF and ISIS extension for Segment Routing
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Hi Acee,

On 11/04/18 22:36 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> In preparation for WG adoption and IANA early code point allocation, I suggest that we rename the “Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV Metric Registry” to the “Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV Metric Type Registry” to avoid confusion as to whether we are defining the actual metrics here. I know that in the contexts of the drafts, it is clear but the registries are going to be on their own. Additionally, while protocol TLV types should not be shared between protocols, it seems this registry could be common and placed in our "Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) Parameters" registry.

sure I can make that change.

>
> Finally, the OSPF version has a typo in section 8.2. The last two types should be 2 and 3.

right, will fix it.
>
>     o  0 - Reserved
>
>     o  1 - Flexible Algorithm Exclude Admin Group Sub-TLV
>
>     o  1 - Flexible Algorithm Include-Any Admin Group Sub-TLV
>
>     o  1 - Flexible Algorithm Exclude-All Group Sub-TLV
>
> Also, how so the authors feel about combining the drafts? I know the IS-IS version has had more discussion and wouldn't want to hold it up if there is a possibility. I don't feel strongly one way or another.

I'm fine both ways.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>


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To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
CC: "draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Last Call for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
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Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 13:08:53 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Last Call for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
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From: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 08:44:49 -0700
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flex Algorithms Drafts
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On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 2:52 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> Hi Peter,
>
> Ok - we'll decide during whether to merge during the WG adoption call. It
> would be a good LSR experiment for a combined draft if there are no
> significant differences between the protocols that would make a combined
> draft unwieldy.
>
>
agreed ... If the only difference is encoding really it may be far more
practical to have one draft with appendix/section per protocol giving
those, in a sense I wish we had a single bier-lsr draft albeit IME
Peter/Les are doing an excellent job keeping things in tight lock-step ...

thanks

--- tony

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<div dir=3D"ltr"><br><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quo=
te">On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 2:52 AM, Acee Lindem (acee) <span dir=3D"ltr">&=
lt;<a href=3D"mailto:acee@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">acee@cisco.com</a>&g=
t;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0=
 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Hi Peter,<br>
<br>
Ok - we&#39;ll decide during whether to merge during the WG adoption call. =
It would be a good LSR experiment for a combined draft if there are no sign=
ificant differences between the protocols that would make a combined draft =
unwieldy.<br>
<br></blockquote><div><br></div><div>agreed ... If the only difference is e=
ncoding really it may be far more practical to have one draft with appendix=
/section per protocol giving those, in a sense I wish we had a single bier-=
lsr draft albeit IME Peter/Les are doing an excellent job keeping things in=
 tight lock-step ...<br><br></div><div>thanks <br><br></div><div>--- tony=
=C2=A0 <br></div></div><br></div></div>

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From: "Dolganow, Andrew (Nokia - SG/Singapore)" <andrew.dolganow@nokia.com>
To: Tony Przygienda <tonysietf@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Flex Algorithms Drafts
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From: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@huawei.com>
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From: Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com>
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 19:36:58 +0200
Message-ID: <CAG-CQxoFyU19Mujbe4Aa=hxnRbsxA0EP+W14jN7QLi6uy0ynvA@mail.gmail.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Cc: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>,  Padma Pillay-Esnault <padma.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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--f403043ec138e2890a0569aa337d
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Support

Thanks
Padma

On Mon, Apr 9, 2018 at 9:28 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com=
>
wrote:

> Support (as co-author).
>
>
>
> This correction is needed to insure that interoperability is assured.
>
>
>
>     Les
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Monday, April 09, 2018 12:20 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE)
> Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
>
>
>
> This draft simply fixes a problem in RFC 7810 that resulted in an
> incompatibility issue with implementations. Given the simplicity of this
> document, I=E2=80=99d like to have an abbreviated WG adoption call of one=
 week.
> Please indicate your support or objections to this document by April 17th=
,
> 2018.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>
>

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<div dir=3D"ltr">Support<div><br></div><div>Thanks</div><div>Padma</div></d=
iv><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Mon, Apr 9,=
 2018 at 9:28 PM, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"=
mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com" target=3D"_blank">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt;</sp=
an> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;=
border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"m_-2306261283480113898WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">Suppo=
rt (as co-author).<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">This =
correction is needed to insure that interoperability is assured.<u></u><u><=
/u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d">=C2=
=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Les<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1f497d"><u></=
u>=C2=A0<u></u></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in =
4.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #e1e1e1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in =
0in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b>=
<span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@iet=
f.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 09, 2018 12:20 PM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org" target=3D"_blank">lsr@ietf.org</=
a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for &quot;IS-IS Traffic Engineer=
ing (TE) Metric Extensions&quot; - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-<wbr>rfc7810bis-=
00<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div>
</div><span class=3D"">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">This draft simply f=
ixes a problem in RFC 7810 that resulted in an incompatibility issue with i=
mplementations. Given the simplicity of this document, I=E2=80=99d like to =
have an abbreviated WG adoption call of one
 week. Please indicate your support or objections to this document by April=
 17<sup>th</sup>, 2018. =C2=A0<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">Thanks,<br>
Acee <u></u><u></u></span></p>
</span></div>
</div>
</div>

<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
Lsr mailing list<br>
<a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<a href=3D"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr" rel=3D"noreferrer" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/<wbr>listinfo/lsr</a><br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div>

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    Hi Acee,

    sorry for my slow response.

    Before answering questions lets establish 'prerequisites' of the 
problem.

- Network is dual stack, OSPFv2 is used to route IPv4, OSPFv3 is used to 
route IPv6

- TE LSAs are originated as per [RFC3630] and flooded in OSPFv2

- 'Endpoint' of each MPLS TE tunnel is IPv4 address

- There is a desire to make OSPFv3 to compute IPv6 routes over TE 
tunnels - of which OSPFv3 has no topological information


>      >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>      >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area 
> of local
>      >     IP address?
>
>         Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area 
> borders are
>     laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that 
> router is
>     ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective 
> this, of
>     course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
>
> I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are 
> advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the 
> TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to search 
> all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment model makes 
> sense and I don't think this should be supported.


    No, TE LSAs are advertised only in OSPFv2.
    Consider information available to OSPFv3 on tunnel headend router. 
Endpoint address of TE tunnel is IPv4 address, say 7.7.7.7 (this address 
is what tunnel tailend router advertises in OSPFv2 TE LSA in the Router 
Address TLV). OSPFv3 needs to find what router in what area corresponds 
to router that advertises that TE LSA in OSPFv2.

    That is, OSPFv3 has no its own TE information and not even a hint to 
which area may belong the tailend router.


>
>
>      >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also discuss the
>      >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints? 
> Also state
>      >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the 
> endpoints are
>      >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or 
> describe the
>      >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>
>         We can add paragraph saying something like:
>     "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST
>     advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that will
>     perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both tunnel 
> headend
>     and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing XAF
>     routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other 
> routers
>     in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or interpret 
> Node
>     Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels 
> signaled
>     by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route computation in
>     OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as 
> tunnel
>     endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."
>
>     Will this text work?
>
> I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the 
> perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also, 
> you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single 
> protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and 
> IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to operate 
> both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF LSP - 
> correct?
>

But OSPFv2 does not produce IPv6 routes. Both protocols operate in the 
network:

- OSPFv2 computes IPv4 routes and distributes TE database

- OSPFv3 computes IPv6 routes. If TE tunnels provide shortcut to 
destination then OSPFv3 will point route into the tunnel.

---
Anton

On 04/07/18 23:06, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Anton,
>
> ﻿On 4/6/18, 7:33 AM, "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com> 
> wrote:
>
>         Hi Acee,
>         my answers below (I didn't vet them with other authors, so 
> they may
>     express different opinions).
>
>      >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For 
> example: “OSPF
>      >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>
>         Your proposed variant drops two pieces: "Routing with" and 
> "MPLS".
>     Dropping mention to MPLS is fine with me. Dropping "Routing with" 
> seems
>     to me less correct because the draft is about ways to compute 
> routes and
>     not about setting up/managing tunnels.
>         But ultimately I have no strong feelings here and if there is a
>     requirement to shorten document's name then that would be a good 
> candidate.
>
>
>      >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC 8174
>     version?
>
>         OK, we will publish new document revision when we agreed on other
>     points.
>
>
>      >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>      >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area 
> of local
>      >     IP address?
>
>         Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area 
> borders are
>     laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that 
> router is
>     ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective 
> this, of
>     course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
>
> I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are 
> advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the 
> TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to search 
> all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment model makes 
> sense and I don't think this should be supported.
>
>
>      >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also discuss the
>      >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints? 
> Also state
>      >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the 
> endpoints are
>      >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or 
> describe the
>      >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>
>         We can add paragraph saying something like:
>     "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST
>     advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that will
>     perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both tunnel 
> headend
>     and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing XAF
>     routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other 
> routers
>     in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or interpret 
> Node
>     Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels 
> signaled
>     by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route computation in
>     OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as 
> tunnel
>     endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."
>
>     Will this text work?
>
> I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the 
> perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also, 
> you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single 
> protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and 
> IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to operate 
> both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF LSP - 
> correct?
>
> Thanks,
> Acee
>
>
>     ---
>     Anton
>
>
>     On 04/04/18 20:13, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>     > Hi Anton, Alvaro, and Mike,
>     >
>     > In preparation for WG last call, I have a couple comments.
>     >
>     >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For example: 
> “OSPF
>     >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>     >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC 
> 8174 version?
>     >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>     >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area of 
> local
>     >     IP address?
>     >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also discuss the
>     >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints? 
> Also state
>     >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the 
> endpoints are
>     >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or 
> describe the
>     >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>     >
>     > Thanks,
>     >
>     > Acee
>     >
>
>


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<html>
  <head>
    <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
  </head>
  <body text="#000000" bgcolor="#FFFFFF">
    <p>   Hi Acee,</p>
    <p>   sorry for my slow response.</p>
    <p>   Before answering questions lets establish 'prerequisites' of
      the problem.</p>
    <p>- Network is dual stack, OSPFv2 is used to route IPv4, OSPFv3 is
      used to route IPv6</p>
    <p>- TE LSAs are originated as per <font size="2"><span
          style="font-size:10pt;">[RFC3630] and flooded in OSPFv2</span></font></p>
    <p><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt;">- 'Endpoint' of each
          MPLS TE tunnel is IPv4 address</span></font></p>
    <p><font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt;">- There is a desire
          to make OSPFv3 to compute IPv6 routes over TE tunnels - of
          which OSPFv3 has no topological information<br>
        </span></font></p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
    <p>
      <blockquote type="cite"><font size="2"><span
            style="font-size:10pt;">     &gt;  3. In the section 3
            mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF<br>
                 &gt;     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not
            just the area of local<br>
                 &gt;     IP address?<br>
                <br>
                    Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when
            area borders are <br>
                laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even
            possible that router is <br>
                ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design
            perspective this, of <br>
                course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.<br>
            <br>
            I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you
            are advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and
            aggregating the TED and since the area boundaries may be
            different, you need to search all the areas LSP endpoints? I
            don't think this deployment model makes sense and I don't
            think this should be supported. <br>
          </span></font></blockquote>
    </p>
    <p><br>
    </p>
       No, TE LSAs are advertised only in OSPFv2.<br>
       Consider information available to OSPFv3 on tunnel headend
    router. Endpoint address of TE tunnel is IPv4 address, say 7.7.7.7
    (this address is what tunnel tailend router advertises in OSPFv2 TE
    LSA in the Router Address TLV). OSPFv3 needs to find what router in
    what area corresponds to router that advertises that TE LSA in
    OSPFv2.<br>
    <p>   That is, OSPFv3 has no its own TE information and not even a
      hint to which area may belong the tailend router.<br>
    </p>
    <p><br>
      <blockquote type="cite"><font size="2"><span
            style="font-size:10pt;">    <br>
                <br>
                 &gt;  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you
            also discuss the<br>
                 &gt;     requirements for backward compatibility of the
            endpoints? Also state<br>
                 &gt;     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized
            unless the endpoints are<br>
                 &gt;     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or
            OSPFv3); or describe the<br>
                 &gt;     behavior if this is not the intension.<br>
                <br>
                    We can add paragraph saying something like:<br>
                "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend
            routers MUST <br>
                advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF
            instance that will <br>
                perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints
            (both tunnel headend <br>
                and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance
            performing XAF <br>
                routing must implement XAF as described in this
            document. Other routers <br>
                in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
            interpret Node <br>
                Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE
            tunnels signaled <br>
                by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
            computation in <br>
                OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that
            serve as tunnel <br>
                endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this
            specification."<br>
                <br>
                Will this text work?<br>
            <br>
            I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from
            the perspective of the head-end router performing the
            calculation. Also, you lost me completely with the last
            sentence. We are uses a single protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to
            advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and IPv6 traffic is
            tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to operate both
            protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF LSP -
            correct? <br>
            <br>
          </span></font></blockquote>
      <br>
    </p>
    <p>But OSPFv2 does not produce IPv6 routes. Both protocols operate
      in the network:</p>
    <p>- OSPFv2 computes IPv4 routes and distributes TE database</p>
    <p>- OSPFv3 computes IPv6 routes. If TE tunnels provide shortcut to
      destination then OSPFv3 will point route into the tunnel.<br>
    </p>
    <pre class="moz-signature" cols="72">
---
Anton

</pre>
    <div class="moz-cite-prefix">On 04/07/18 23:06, Acee Lindem (acee)
      wrote:<br>
    </div>
    <blockquote type="cite"
      cite="mid:E721F0E4-D4E9-4D03-AA5E-0FB31F8F1B49@cisco.com">
      <meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8">
      <meta name="Generator" content="Microsoft Exchange Server">
      <!-- converted from text -->
      <style><!-- .EmailQuote { margin-left: 1pt; padding-left: 4pt; border-left: #800000 2px solid; } --></style>
      <font size="2"><span style="font-size:10pt;">
          <div class="PlainText">Hi Anton, <br>
            <br>
            ﻿On 4/6/18, 7:33 AM, "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)"
            <a class="moz-txt-link-rfc2396E" href="mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com">&lt;asmirnov@cisco.com&gt;</a> wrote:<br>
            <br>
                    Hi Acee,<br>
                    my answers below (I didn't vet them with other
            authors, so they may <br>
                express different opinions).<br>
                <br>
                 &gt;  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the
            RFC? For example: “OSPF<br>
                 &gt;     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering
            Tunnels”?<br>
                <br>
                    Your proposed variant drops two pieces: "Routing
            with" and "MPLS". <br>
                Dropping mention to MPLS is fine with me. Dropping
            "Routing with" seems <br>
                to me less correct because the draft is about ways to
            compute routes and <br>
                not about setting up/managing tunnels.<br>
                    But ultimately I have no strong feelings here and if
            there is a <br>
                requirement to shorten document's name then that would
            be a good candidate.<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                 &gt;  2. Can you change the requirements language text
            to the RFC 8174 <br>
                version?<br>
                <br>
                    OK, we will publish new document revision when we
            agreed on other <br>
                points.<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                 &gt;  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you
            walk the X-AF<br>
                 &gt;     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not
            just the area of local<br>
                 &gt;     IP address?<br>
                <br>
                    Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when
            area borders are <br>
                laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even
            possible that router is <br>
                ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design
            perspective this, of <br>
                course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.<br>
            <br>
            I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you
            are advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and
            aggregating the TED and since the area boundaries may be
            different, you need to search all the areas LSP endpoints? I
            don't think this deployment model makes sense and I don't
            think this should be supported. <br>
                <br>
                <br>
                 &gt;  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you
            also discuss the<br>
                 &gt;     requirements for backward compatibility of the
            endpoints? Also state<br>
                 &gt;     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized
            unless the endpoints are<br>
                 &gt;     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or
            OSPFv3); or describe the<br>
                 &gt;     behavior if this is not the intension.<br>
                <br>
                    We can add paragraph saying something like:<br>
                "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend
            routers MUST <br>
                advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF
            instance that will <br>
                perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints
            (both tunnel headend <br>
                and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance
            performing XAF <br>
                routing must implement XAF as described in this
            document. Other routers <br>
                in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
            interpret Node <br>
                Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE
            tunnels signaled <br>
                by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
            computation in <br>
                OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that
            serve as tunnel <br>
                endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this
            specification."<br>
                <br>
                Will this text work?<br>
            <br>
            I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from
            the perspective of the head-end router performing the
            calculation. Also, you lost me completely with the last
            sentence. We are uses a single protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to
            advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and IPv6 traffic is
            tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to operate both
            protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF LSP -
            correct? <br>
            <br>
            Thanks,<br>
            Acee <br>
            <br>
            <br>
                ---<br>
                Anton<br>
                <br>
                <br>
                On 04/04/18 20:13, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:<br>
                &gt; Hi Anton, Alvaro, and Mike,<br>
                &gt; <br>
                &gt; In preparation for WG last call, I have a couple
            comments.<br>
                &gt; <br>
                &gt;  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC?
            For example: “OSPF<br>
                &gt;     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering
            Tunnels”?<br>
                &gt;  2. Can you change the requirements language text
            to the RFC 8174 version?<br>
                &gt;  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you
            walk the X-AF<br>
                &gt;     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not
            just the area of local<br>
                &gt;     IP address?<br>
                &gt;  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you
            also discuss the<br>
                &gt;     requirements for backward compatibility of the
            endpoints? Also state<br>
                &gt;     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized
            unless the endpoints are<br>
                &gt;     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or
            OSPFv3); or describe the<br>
                &gt;     behavior if this is not the intension.<br>
                &gt; <br>
                &gt; Thanks,<br>
                &gt; <br>
                &gt; Acee<br>
                &gt; <br>
                <br>
            <br>
          </div>
        </span></font>
    </blockquote>
    <br>
  </body>
</html>

--------------C4D78121742BBCEB8BA3CC83--


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From nobody Mon Apr 16 15:28:25 2018
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From: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com>, Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, Tony Li <tony.li@tony.li>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] FW: New Version Notification for draft-ginsberg-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
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Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 22:41:52 +0000
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--_000_f75c21fcb8bf4defacbeb53127faa916XCHALN001ciscocom_--


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Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2018 16:02:23 -0700
From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
To: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Hi Ketan

=20

Thank you for your review, I=E2=80=99ll address the comments during this week.

Thanks!

=20

Cheers,

Jeff

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <=
ketant@cisco.com>
Date: Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 05:04
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Last Call for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) =
using OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt

=20

Hi Acee,

=20

I have reviewed this draft for OSPF but in the same context also gone over =
its corresponding ISIS draft (https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-is=
is-segment-routing-msd/ ) and some of the comments apply to both since they =
are mostly identical in content.

=20

I need to ask the question if it makes sense to merge these drafts into a s=
ingle one to save everyone cycles and ensure consistency in the spirit of LS=
R J

=20

General Qs:
There are some differences between the ISIS and OSPF versions of this draft=
. Could I request the authors to please cross-check and fix? The ISIS draft =
does not have some of the issues mentioned below.
Do these TLVs apply only when the router is enabled for Segment Routing? i.=
e. they should be originated when SR is enabled on the router and the receiv=
er should not expect them when SR is disabled? Or do we foresee MSD to be mo=
re generic. This aspect needs to be clarified.
The allowable values are specified as 0-254 in OSPF draft while ISIS one al=
lows 255 as well. The IANA section though says that 255 is reserved.
The draft using =E2=80=9Csub-type=E2=80=9D in some places and =E2=80=9Ctype=E2=80=9D in some places=
. This is confusing. The ISIS draft uses =E2=80=9Ctype=E2=80=9D everywhere which seems b=
etter.
Several comments below about the section where OSPF TLVs are defined and I =
would suggest to use similar text as in the ISIS draft.
I think it is better that the draft mandates that the  MSD sub-types SHOULD=
 be encoded in ascending order? This makes it easier for the receiver/consum=
er to detect absence or removal of a specific sub-type from signalling.
Reference to RFC4970 should be replaced with RFC7770
Both the ISIS and OSPF drafts are asking IANA for creation of MSD type regi=
stry. Should the creation not be done by only one of them and the other poin=
ts to it?
=20

=20

Sec 1

=20
can be imposed at each node/link on a given SR path
=20
It laso also defines
   the Base MPLS Imposition MSD type.
=20
Sec 1.1.1

=20
   BMI: Base MPLS Imposition is the number of MPLS labels that can be
   imposed inclusive of any all service/transport/special labels
=20

Sec 3

=20
Node MSD is the minimum MSD supported by all the links of the node.
=20
Sub-Type 1 (IANA Section), MSD and the Value field contains maximum
   MSD of the router originating the RI LSA.
=20
=20

Some Qs on Sec 3:
In my understanding, the Node MSD is the minimum value of all the Link MSDs=
 for the links on that node that are enabled in that specific IGP instance. =
There may be another IGP instance configured on the same node with a differe=
nt set of links and for that instance, the Node MSD may be higher. The same =
goes for links that are not configured/enabled under the specific IGP instan=
ce. The draft needs to clarify this aspect.
The draft needs to specify how many instances of this TLV are allowed in th=
e RI LSA and when there are multiple instances in the same or multiple RI LS=
A fragments, then how should the receiver handle or interpret them? E.g. use=
s the minimum of the signalled Node MSD values or uses the first instance of=
 the TLV in the lowest fragment, etc. Also, we don=E2=80=99t want multiple instanc=
es of the MSD TLV to be encoded for different types =E2=80=93 all of them must be =
in a single instance of the MSD TLV.
=20

Sec 4

=20
   For OSPFv3, the Link level MSD value is advertised as an optional
   Sub-TLV of the Router-Link E-Router-LSA TLV as defined in
   [I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend], and has value of TBD3.
=20
   Sub-Type 1 (IANA Section), MSD and the Value field contains Link MSD
   of the link router originating the corresponding LSA as specified for
   OSPFv2 and OSPFv3.
=20

Some Qs on Sec 4:
The draft needs to specify how many instances of this TLV are allowed in th=
e Extended Link Attribute/E-Router LSA and when there are multiple instances=
 then how should the receiver handle or interpret them? Also, we don=E2=80=99t wan=
t multiple instances of the MSD TLV to be encoded for different types =E2=80=93 al=
l of them must be in a single instance of the MSD TLV.
=20

=20

Sec 5

=20
Suggest to add =E2=80=9CWhen a Link MSD type is not signalled but the Node MSD ty=
pe is, then the value of that Link MSD type MUST considered as the correspon=
ding Node MSD type value.=E2=80=9D I realize this is obvious but it is better to b=
e clarified. This enables routes with homogenous link MSD values to advertis=
e just the Node MSD values. I also think this should be RECOMMENDED by the d=
raft for flooding efficiencies.
=20
Sec 6
=20
   The Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) signals the total number of
   MPLS labels a node is capable of imposing, including any all service/
   Transport/special labels.
=20
Sec 8
=20
I think the security section just points to the RI LSA draft, but it also n=
eeds to cover the other LSAs. IMHO the security considerations are fairly ge=
neric for the protocols but we need the right references here?
=20
Thanks,
Ketan
=20

From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
Sent: 06 April 2018 06:19
To: lsr@ietf.org
Subject: [Lsr] LSR WG Last Call for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) usin=
g OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt

=20

This begins an LSR WG last call for the subject draft. Please send your

comments to this list prior to 12:00 AM GMT, April 20th, 2018.=20

=20

Thanks,

Acee and Chris

=20

_______________________________________________ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.o=
rg https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=20


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--></style></head><body lang=3DEN-US link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72"><div clas=
s=3DWordSection1><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Hi Ketan<o:=
p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&n=
bsp;</o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thank=
 you for your review, I=E2=80=99ll address the comments during this week.<o:p></o:=
p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>Thanks!<o:p><=
/o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp=
;</o:p></span></p><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;colo=
r:black'>Cheers,<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'=
font-size:11.0pt;color:black'>Jeff</span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p=
></o:p></span></p><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;pad=
ding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><b><span style=3D'color:black'>From=
: </span></b><span style=3D'color:black'>Lsr &lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; on b=
ehalf of &quot;Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)&quot; &lt;ketant@cisco.com&gt;<br><=
b>Date: </b>Thursday, April 12, 2018 at 05:04<br><b>To: </b>&quot;Acee Linde=
m (acee)&quot; &lt;acee@cisco.com&gt;, &quot;lsr@ietf.org&quot; &lt;lsr@ietf=
.org&gt;<br><b>Subject: </b>Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Last Call for &quot;Signaling M=
SD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF&quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-ms=
d-10.txt<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'fon=
t-size:11.0pt'><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></span></p></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><a name=3D=
"_MailOriginalBody"><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Hi Acee,</s=
pan><o:p></o:p></a></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOri=
ginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBod=
y'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I have reviewed this draft f=
or OSPF but in the same context also gone over its corresponding ISIS draft =
(</span></span><a href=3D"https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-seg=
ment-routing-msd/"><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D=
'font-size:11.0pt'>https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-=
routing-msd/</span></span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></spa=
n></a><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11=
.0pt;color:#1F497D'> ) and some of the comments apply to both since they are=
 mostly identical in content.</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal=
><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span s=
tyle=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'>I need to ask the question if it makes sense to merge these drafts in=
to a single one to save everyone cycles and ensure consistency in the spirit=
 of LSR </span></span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span sty=
le=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1F497D'>J</span><o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>General Qs:</span><o:p></o:p></span></p=
><ol style=3D'margin-top:0in' start=3D1 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D=
'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOri=
ginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>There are some diffe=
rences between the ISIS and OSPF versions of this draft. Could I request the=
 authors to please cross-check and fix? The ISIS draft does not have some of=
 the issues mentioned below.</span><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoListP=
aragraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style=3D'mso-bo=
okmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Do th=
ese TLVs apply only when the router is enabled for Segment Routing? i.e. the=
y should be originated when SR is enabled on the router and the receiver sho=
uld not expect them when SR is disabled? Or do we foresee MSD to be more gen=
eric. This aspect needs to be clarified.</span><o:p></o:p></span></li><li cl=
ass=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span s=
tyle=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1=
F497D'>The allowable values are specified as 0-254 in OSPF draft while ISIS =
one allows 255 as well. The IANA section though says that 255 is reserved.</=
span><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0i=
n;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><spa=
n style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The draft using =E2=80=9Csub-type=E2=80=9D in s=
ome places and =E2=80=9Ctype=E2=80=9D in some places. This is confusing. The ISIS draft =
uses =E2=80=9Ctype=E2=80=9D everywhere which seems better.</span><o:p></o:p></span></li>=
<li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><=
span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;co=
lor:#1F497D'>Several comments below about the section where OSPF TLVs are de=
fined and I would suggest to use similar text as in the ISIS draft.</span><o=
:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-l=
ist:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=
=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>I think it is better that the draft mandat=
es that the &nbsp;MSD sub-types SHOULD be encoded in ascending order? This m=
akes it easier for the receiver/consumer to detect absence or removal of a s=
pecific sub-type from signalling.</span><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMso=
ListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 lfo2'><span style=3D'm=
so-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Reference to RFC4970 should be replaced with RFC7770</span><o:p></o:p></span=
></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l0 level1 l=
fo2'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'>Both the ISIS and OSPF drafts are asking IANA for creatio=
n of MSD type registry. Should the creation not be done by only one of them =
and the other points to it?</span><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNo=
rmal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.=
0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;colo=
r:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>Sec 1</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-boo=
kmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;=
</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBod=
y'><span style=3D'color:black'>can be imposed at each node/link</span><b><span=
 style=3D'color:red'> </span>on </b><span style=3D'color:black'>a given SR path<=
/span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBo=
dy'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><spa=
n style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>It <s>las=
o</s> <b>also</b> defines</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'ms=
o-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; the Bas=
e MPLS Imposition MSD type.</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'=
mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p>=
</o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOrigina=
lBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sec 1.1.1</span><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody=
'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:b=
lack'>&nbsp;&nbsp; BMI: Base MPLS Imposition is the number of MPLS labels th=
at can be</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mail=
OriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; imposed inclusive of <s=
>any</s> <b>all</b> service/transport<b>/special</b> labels</span><o:p></o:p=
></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody=
'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span =
style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sec 3</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p =
class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span =
style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>Node MSD is=
 the minimum MSD supported by <b>all the links of </b>the node.</span><o:p><=
/o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span st=
yle=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso=
-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>Sub-Type 1 (IANA Sect=
ion), MSD and the Value field contains maximum</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre=
><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'=
>&nbsp;&nbsp; MSD of the router <s>originating the RI LSA</s>.</span><o:p></=
o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span sty=
le=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><sp=
an style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;colo=
r:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=
=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497=
D'>Some Qs on Sec 3:</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0in' =
start=3D1 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l1=
 level1 lfo4'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font=
-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>In my understanding, the Node MSD is the minimum=
 value of all the Link MSDs for the links on that node that are enabled in t=
hat specific IGP instance. There may be another IGP instance configured on t=
he same node with a different set of links and for that instance, the Node M=
SD may be higher. The same goes for links that are not configured/enabled un=
der the specific IGP instance. The draft needs to clarify this aspect.</span=
><o:p></o:p></span></li><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;ms=
o-list:l1 level1 lfo4'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span st=
yle=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The draft needs to specify how many ins=
tances of this TLV are allowed in the RI LSA and when there are multiple ins=
tances in the same or multiple RI LSA fragments, then how should the receive=
r handle or interpret them? E.g. uses the minimum of the signalled Node MSD =
values or uses the first instance of the TLV in the lowest fragment, etc. Al=
so, we don=E2=80=99t want multiple instances of the MSD TLV to be encoded for diff=
erent types =E2=80=93 all of them must be in a single instance of the MSD TLV.</sp=
an><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:=
_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span=
><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOri=
ginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sec 4</span><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody=
'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:b=
lack'>&nbsp;&nbsp; For OSPFv3, the Link level MSD value is advertised as an =
optional</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailO=
riginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Sub-TLV of the <s>Router=
-Link</s> <b>E-Router-LSA</b> TLV as defined in</span><o:p></o:p></span></pr=
e><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black=
'>&nbsp;&nbsp; [</span></span><a href=3D"https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-iet=
f-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10#ref-I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend"><span sty=
le=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>I-D.ietf-ospf-ospfv3-lsa-extend</span><s=
pan style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'></span></a><span style=3D'mso-bookm=
ark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>], and has value of TBD3.</=
span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_M=
ailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Sub-Type 1 (IANA Section), MSD and the Val=
ue field contains Link MSD</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'm=
so-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; of the=
 link <s>router originating the corresponding LSA as specified for</s></span=
><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><=
s><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; OSPFv2 and OSPFv3</span></s><span s=
tyle=3D'color:black'>.</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span =
style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#=
1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'm=
so-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>=
Some Qs on Sec 4:</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><ol style=3D'margin-top:0in' sta=
rt=3D1 type=3D1><li class=3DMsoListParagraph style=3D'margin-left:0in;mso-list:l2 le=
vel1 lfo6'><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-si=
ze:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>The draft needs to specify how many instances of th=
is TLV are allowed in the Extended Link Attribute/E-Router LSA and when ther=
e are multiple instances then how should the receiver handle or interpret th=
em? Also, we don=E2=80=99t want multiple instances of the MSD TLV to be encoded fo=
r different types =E2=80=93 all of them must be in a single instance of the MSD TL=
V.</span><o:p></o:p></span></li></ol><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-boo=
kmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;=
</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_M=
ailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><=
o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOrigi=
nalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>Sec 5</span><o:p></o:p=
></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'>=
<span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span>=
</p><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size=
:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Suggest to add =E2=80=9C</=
span><span style=3D'color:black'>When a Link MSD type is not signalled but the=
 Node MSD type is, then the value of that Link MSD type MUST considered as t=
he corresponding Node MSD type value.</span></span><span style=3D'mso-bookmark=
:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans=
-serif;color:#1F497D'>=E2=80=9D I realize this is obvious but it is better to be c=
larified. This enables routes with homogenous link MSD values to advertise j=
ust the Node MSD values. I also think this should be RECOMMENDED by the draf=
t for flooding efficiencies.</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D=
'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"=
Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre=
><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;=
font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Sec 6</span><o:p></o:p></spa=
n></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-=
size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:=
p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span=
 style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; The Base MPLS Imposition MSD (BMI-MSD) sig=
nals the total number of</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso=
-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; MPLS lab=
els a node is capable of imposing, including <s>any</s> <b>all</b> service/<=
/span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBo=
dy'><span style=3D'color:black'>&nbsp;&nbsp; Transport<b>/special</b> labels.<=
/span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBo=
dy'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F=
497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_M=
ailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-se=
rif;color:#1F497D'>Sec 8</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso=
-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Cali=
bri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><sp=
an style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font=
-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>I think the security section jus=
t points to the RI LSA draft, but it also needs to cover the other LSAs. IMH=
O the security considerations are fairly generic for the protocols but we ne=
ed the right references here?</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pre><span style=
=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;font-family:=
"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></pre><pr=
e><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt=
;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></=
span></pre><pre><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'fo=
nt-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri",sans-serif;color:#1F497D'>Ketan</span><=
o:p></o:p></span></pre><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOri=
ginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></=
o:p></span></p><div><div style=3D'border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;p=
adding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_Mail=
OriginalBody'><b><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>From:</span></b></span><span=
 style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'> Lsr =
&lt;lsr-bounces@ietf.org&gt; <b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br><b>Se=
nt:</b> 06 April 2018 06:19<br><b>To:</b> lsr@ietf.org<br><b>Subject:</b> [L=
sr] LSR WG Last Call for &quot;Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using OSPF&=
quot; - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt</span><o:p></o:p></span><=
/p></div></div><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBod=
y'>&nbsp;<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:=
_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;color:black'>This begins an=
 LSR WG last call for the subject draft. Please send your</span><o:p></o:p><=
/span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><s=
pan style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;color:black'>comments to this list prior to 12:0=
0 AM GMT, April 20th, 2018. </span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal>=
<span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;c=
olor:black'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span styl=
e=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;color:black=
'>Thanks,</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bo=
okmark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt;color:black'>Acee an=
d Chris</span><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-book=
mark:_MailOriginalBody'><span style=3D'font-size:16.0pt'>&nbsp;</span><o:p></o=
:p></span></p><p class=3DMsoNormal><span style=3D'mso-bookmark:_MailOriginalBody=
'><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'>___________________________________________=
____ Lsr mailing list Lsr@ietf.org https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr=
 </span></span><span style=3D'font-size:11.0pt'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div></=
body></html>

--B_3606743302_1840689867--



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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 11:31:11 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flex Algorithms Drafts
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Hi Uma,

please see inline:


On 17/04/18 00:14 , Uma Chunduri wrote:
> Dear All,
> I am neutral to combining the content of OSPF and IS-IS into a single
> draft.
> However, I have 2 questions on this draft.
> 1.
>    0                   1                   2                   3
>      0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 0 1
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     |      Type     |    Length     |   Algorithm   |  Metric Type  |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     |   Alg. Type   |    Priority   |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
>     |                          Sub-TLVs                             |
>     +                                                               +
>     |                            ...                                |
>     |                                                               |
>     +-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
> */       Algorithm: Flex-Algorithm number.  Value between 128 and 255/*
> */      inclusive./*
> */      Algorithm Type: Single octet identifying the algorithm type used/*
> */      to compute paths for the Flex-Algoritm.  Values are defined in/*
> */      "IGP Algorithm Types" registry defined under "Interior Gateway/*
> */      Protocol (IGP) Parameters" IANA registries./*
> Why there are two fields "Algorithm" and "Algorithm Type" ?

these are being renamed in the next update to:

Flex-Algorithm - Single octet value between 128 and 255 inclusive


IGP Alg. Type - Single octet. Value between 0 and 127 inclusive, that
identifies IGP algorithm type used to compute paths for the 
Flex-Algoritm. Values are defined in "IGP Algorithm Types" registry 
defined under "Interior Gateway Protocol (IGP) Parameters" IANA registries.

> While algorithm-type defines currently only 2 algorithms (0-SPF and
> 1-Strict SPF), that space can be carved out for user defined computation
> algorithms (I presume). If yes, then "Algorithm Type" becomes user
> defined flexible algorithm.
> 2. Also some of the sub-tlvs defined in the draft doesn't seem to belong
> to Router capabilities; where algorithm description is being advertised.
> Flexible Algorithm Exclude Admin Group Sub-TLV
>     "The Flexible-Algorithm definition can specify 'colors' that are used
>     by the operator to exclude links during the Flex-Algorithm path
>     computation.

FAD Sub-TLV is a sub-TLV of the IS-IS Router Capability TLV-242.

Flexible Algorithm Exclude Admin Group Sub-TLV is a sub-TLV of the FAD 
Sub-TLV.

thanks,
Peter

> --
> Uma C.
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
> Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2018 2:53 AM
> To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Cc: draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Flex Algorithms Drafts
> Hi Peter,
> Ok - we'll decide during whether to merge during the WG adoption call.
> It would be a good LSR experiment for a combined draft if there are no
> significant differences between the protocols that would make a combined
> draft unwieldy.
> Thanks,
> Acee
> ﻿On 4/12/18, 3:35 AM, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com
> <mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com>> wrote:
>      Hi Acee,
>      On 11/04/18 22:36 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>      > In preparation for WG adoption and IANA early code point
> allocation, I suggest that we rename the “Flexible Algorithm Definition
> TLV Metric Registry” to the “Flexible Algorithm Definition TLV Metric
> Type Registry” to avoid confusion as to whether we are defining the
> actual metrics here. I know that in the contexts of the drafts, it is
> clear but the registries are going to be on their own. Additionally,
> while protocol TLV types should not be shared between protocols, it
> seems this registry could be common and placed in our "Interior Gateway
> Protocol (IGP) Parameters" registry.
>      sure I can make that change.
>      >
>      > Finally, the OSPF version has a typo in section 8.2. The last two
> types should be 2 and 3.
>      right, will fix it.
>      >
>      >     o  0 - Reserved
>      >
>      >     o  1 - Flexible Algorithm Exclude Admin Group Sub-TLV
>      >
>      >     o  1 - Flexible Algorithm Include-Any Admin Group Sub-TLV
>      >
>      >     o  1 - Flexible Algorithm Exclude-All Group Sub-TLV
>      >
>      > Also, how so the authors feel about combining the drafts? I know
> the IS-IS version has had more discussion and wouldn't want to hold it
> up if there is a possibility. I don't feel strongly one way or another.
>      I'm fine both ways.
>      thanks,
>      Peter
>      >
>      > Thanks,
>      > Acee
>      >
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org <mailto:Lsr@ietf.org>
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 11:39:02 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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To: Uma Chunduri <uma.chunduri@huawei.com>, "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Hi Uma,

please see inline:

On 17/04/18 00:20 , Uma Chunduri wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
>> I have the feeling that the dependency of the "flooding topology" on the flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more then one.
>
>
> I see
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/?include_text=1 proposes flexible algorithms for route computation.
>
> Here, you are saying similar to flexible algorithms for route computation - flexible algorithms can be used for computing "flooding topology" in a distributed fashion ; is that correct?

that's not what we are proposing. At least not at this point.

>
> Else I don't see any connection to different algorithms in the flooding topology context; please clarify?

the discussion we are having in the context of the
draft-li-dynamic-flooding is whether to use the centralized or 
distributed approach to compute the flooding topology.

Current text in the draft mandates the centralized approach and requires 
flooding of the data to describe the "flooding topology" itself.

We are proposing to also support distributed version of it with either a 
single standardized algorithm or possibly multiple distributed 
algorithms, which would require some agreement between all devices in 
the flooded domain.

thanks,
Peter


> --
> Uma C.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Peter Psenak
> Sent: Friday, April 06, 2018 8:50 AM
> To: tony.li@tony.li
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
>
> Hi Tony,
>
> if we start with a single standardized algorithm, that is easy to implement and deploy. We can leave the door open for additional algorithms to be defined later together with the selection mechanism.
>
> I have the feeling that the dependency of the "flooding topology" on the flooded data is going to bring more complexity, than the selection of the distributed algorithm to be used, if we ever need to support more then one.
>
> thanks,
> Peter
>
>
> On 06/04/18 17:19 , tony.li@tony.li wrote:
>>
>> Hi Peter,
>>
>> Thank you for your comments.
>>
>>> while I appreciate the flexibility associated with the centralized
>>> computation of the flooding topology, it has some drawbacks as well:
>>>
>>> 1. "flooding topology" must be flooded. This makes the flooding
>>> dependent on the flooded data itself.
>>
>>
>> Absolutely true. If the computation of the topology is incorrect, that
>> would certainly be a bug.
>>
>>
>>> 2. The extra flooding of "flooding topology" adds some delay in the
>>> convergence towards the new "flooding topology”.
>>
>>
>> Since we distribute the flooding topology before there are topology
>> failures, it would seem like the latency is not a significant concern.
>>
>>
>>> Have you considered the distributed computation of "flooding topology"
>>> using some standardized algorithm?
>>
>>
>> Yes, Kireeti raised this in London as well. There are some practical
>> issues with this. How do we ever converge on an algorithm?
>>
>> There are many perspectives on what an adequate flooding topology
>> might be. Different administrations have different considerations and
>> risk tolerances.
>>
>> Debugging is going to be more challenging, as inconsistencies between
>> two nodes with different ideas of the topology will be difficult to
>> detect until there is a catastrophic failure.
>>
>> I’m trying to do something practical, and it seems like doing this in
>> a centralized fashion is the quickest, easiest, and most robust way forward.
>>
>>
>>> Eventually we can support multiple standardized algorithms. A node
>>> can advertise support for several algorithms and the "active"
>>> algorithm is selected based on some criteria that would guarantee
>>> that all nodes in the flooding domain select the same one.
>>
>>
>> Seems like that would also require some administrative input.
>>
>> So, I agree that that’s a technical possibility, but I think that
>> there’s significant problems in making that work. I prefer to focus on
>> something that we can implement more quickly.
>>
>> Tony
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


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From nobody Tue Apr 17 07:56:21 2018
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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 16:56:13 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Support as coauthor on both drafts.

thanks,
Peter

On 17/04/18 16:44 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex Algorithm
> drafts:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>
> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018. Please
> indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>
> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into a
> single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: IPR for IS-IS and OSPF Flex Algorithm Drafts
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@huawei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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--_000_711ccebaae2f438588124fb35062d7b4XCHALN008ciscocom_--


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From: "Stefano Previdi (IETF)" <s@previdi.net>
Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 17:18:45 +0000
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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I support both drafts.

Thanks.

s.

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:44 PM Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com> wrote:

> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex Algorithm
> drafts:
>
>
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>
>
>
> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2nd, 2018. Please
> indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>
>
>
> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into a
> single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>

--001a114b60508afd1b056a0e8804
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<div dir=3D"auto"><div>I support both drafts.</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></=
div><div dir=3D"auto">Thanks.=C2=A0</div><div dir=3D"auto"><br></div><div d=
ir=3D"auto">s.<br><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote" dir=3D"auto"><div dir=3D"l=
tr">On Tue, Apr 17, 2018, 4:44 PM Acee Lindem (acee) &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:=
acee@cisco.com">acee@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br></div><blockquote class=3D=
"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding=
-left:1ex">





<div lang=3D"EN-US" link=3D"#0563C1" vlink=3D"#954F72">
<div class=3D"m_1412525762002742938WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">This begins a two-w=
eek adoption poll for the following Flex Algorithm drafts:
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><a href=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/" target=3D"_=
blank" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsen=
ak-isis-sr-flex-algo/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><a href=3D"https://=
datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/" target=3D"_blank=
" rel=3D"noreferrer">https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr=
-flex-algo/</a><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">The adoption poll w=
ill end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2<sup>nd</sup>, 2018. Please indicate your s=
upport of opposition of the drafts.=C2=A0
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">Additionally, the a=
uthors are amenable to combining the drafts into a single draft. If you hav=
e an opinion, please state that as well.
<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">Thanks,<u></u><u></=
u></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">Acee <u></u><u></u>=
</span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u><u></u></spa=
n></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><u></u>=C2=A0<u></u=
></span></p>
</div>
</div>

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</blockquote></div></div></div>

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "bruno.decraene@orange.com" <bruno.decraene@orange.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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From nobody Tue Apr 17 12:00:21 2018
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Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2018 21:00:11 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>,  "draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR for IS-IS and OSPF Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Acee,

there is pending IPR and the formal IETF IPR Disclosure will be filed soon.

thanks,
Peter



On 17/04/18 17:16 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Authors,
>
> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-algo
> and draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo?
>
> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>
> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The
> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
> received from each author and contributor.
>
> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, "tony.li@tony.li" <tony.li@tony.li>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Cc: Les Ginsberg <ginsberg@cisco.com>, Robert Raszuk <robert@raszuk.net>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, Rob Shakir <rjs@rob.sh>, Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Fwd: New Version Notification for draft-li-dynamic-flooding-04.txt
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Acee,

> I think a distributed flooding algorithm is more robust and will =
converge faster when there more than one concurrent failure in the =
flooding topology.


No doubt. However, we do not normally attempt to protect against =
multiple concurrent failures. Regardless of how the flooding topology is =
computed, multiple failures can partition it and convergence will become =
seriously problematic.  In the face of multiple failures, no node could =
have a complete and consistent database and even with a distributed =
algorithm, you may have multiple iterations of computing a new topology, =
flooding, and computing.

Let=E2=80=99s not kid ourselves: distributed is no panacea.=20

We do not design our redundant hardware systems to deal with multiple =
concurrent failures, simply because the complexity of such failures is =
so high. It=E2=80=99s paid off as these things simply don=E2=80=99t =
happen with significant frequency.  What is important is that we have =
eventual consistency.


> Additionally, if there is a node failure of the flooding leader and =
that node is a node is on flooding topology, there could be greater =
delays.


All nodes are on the flooding topology, necessarily.

If the leader fails, then it=E2=80=99s similar to any other node =
failure.  Flooding happens around the failed node. Assuming the flooding =
topology was bi-connected, flooding is not interrupted and the network =
should converge in a single flood/SPF cycle.

If the old leader returns to the topology quickly, then there is no =
issue.

If the old leader does not return, then there is a leader =
election/computation/flooding sequence, but that happens while there is =
a functioning flooding topology. NBD.

> =20
> The same solution suggested for the centralized approach of flooding =
on the union of the old and new topologies could be used for =
transitions. However, prune to the newer topology could be quicker since =
it should be easier to assure downstream neighbors have converged on the =
new topology than the whole domain. =20


You can=E2=80=99t assume that you had complete information when =
computing the distributed version.

Tony


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From: Shraddha Hegde <shraddha@juniper.net>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>, "draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR for IS-IS and OSPF Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 03:35:14 +0000
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>, "draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: IPR for IS-IS and OSPF Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 03:51:49 +0000
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From nobody Wed Apr 18 01:55:44 2018
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To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>, "draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org" <draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo@ietf.org>
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From: "Clarence Filsfils (cfilsfil)" <cfilsfil@cisco.com>
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Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2018 10:55:37 +0200
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/uwAQSIOCh6sAi4bvBckYyFIRK4U>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] IPR for IS-IS and OSPF Flex Algorithm Drafts
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There is pending IPR and the formal IETF IPR
Disclosure will be filed soon.

Cheers,
Clarence

On 17/04/2018 21:00, Peter Psenak wrote:
> Hi Acee,
> 
> there is pending IPR and the formal IETF IPR Disclosure will be filed soon.
> 
> thanks,
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> On 17/04/18 17:16 , Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>> Authors,
>>
>> Are you aware of any IPR that applies to draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-algo
>> and draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo?
>>
>> If so, has this IPR been disclosed in compliance with IETF IPR rules
>> (see RFCs 3979, 4879, 3669 and 5378 for more details).
>>
>> If you are listed as a document author or contributor please respond to
>> this email regardless of whether or not you are aware of any relevant
>> IPR. *The response needs to be sent to the LSR WG mailing list.* The
>> document will not advance to the next stage until a response has been
>> received from each author and contributor.
>>
>> If you are on the LSR WG email list but are not listed as an author or
>> contributor, then please explicitly respond only if you are aware of any
>> IPR that has not yet been disclosed in conformance with IETF rules.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Acee
>>
> 
> .
> 


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From: "Jeffrey (Zhaohui) Zhang" <zzhang@juniper.net>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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From: "Zafar Ali (zali)" <zali@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 10:27:41 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Dongjie,

please see inline:

On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
>
> SR algorithm as defined in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions is
> about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, strict SPF, etc.
>
> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended to
> include topological constraints and the metric type used in calculation,
> which makes its functionality analogous to multi-topology routing (MTR).

not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR 
participation needs to be advertised on a per link basis. There is no 
such concept in flex-algo draft. Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP 
topologies.

>
> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm definition is
> topology independent", while in some places Flex Algo is described as a
> "light weight alternative" to MTR.

there is no mention of MTR in the document.

>
> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and MTR can
> be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are complementary to
> each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace MTR?

they are orthogonal.

thanks,
Peter

>
> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it would
> be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two mechanisms somewhere.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Jie
>
> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
>
> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex Algorithm
> drafts:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>
> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018. Please
> indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>
> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into a
> single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : IS-IS Extensions for Segment Routing
        Authors         : Stefano Previdi
                          Les Ginsberg
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Ahmed Bashandy
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Stephane Litkowski
                          Bruno Decraene
                          Jeff Tantsura
	Filename        : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16.txt
	Pages           : 35
	Date            : 2018-04-19

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end
   paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of
   topological sub-paths, called "segments".  These segments are
   advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF).

   This draft describes the necessary IS-IS extensions that need to be
   introduced for Segment Routing operating on an MPLS data-plane.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16.txt
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This just updates/corrects some references which was necessary as some of t=
he referenced content moved into a different draft.

   Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 9:42 AM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16.=
txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : IS-IS Extensions for Segment Routing
>         Authors         : Stefano Previdi
>                           Les Ginsberg
>                           Clarence Filsfils
>                           Ahmed Bashandy
>                           Hannes Gredler
>                           Stephane Litkowski
>                           Bruno Decraene
>                           Jeff Tantsura
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16.txt
> 	Pages           : 35
> 	Date            : 2018-04-19
>=20
> Abstract:
>    Segment Routing (SR) allows for a flexible definition of end-to-end
>    paths within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of
>    topological sub-paths, called "segments".  These segments are
>    advertised by the link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF).
>=20
>    This draft describes the necessary IS-IS extensions that need to be
>    introduced for Segment Routing operating on an MPLS data-plane.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensio=
ns/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-
> extensions-16
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-
> extensions-16
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
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A new meeting session request has just been submitted by Acee Lindem, a Chair of the lsr working group.


---------------------------------------------------------
Working Group Name: Link State Routing
Area Name: Routing Area
Session Requester: Acee Lindem

Number of Sessions: 1
Length of Session(s):  2.5 Hours
Number of Attendees: 70
Conflicts to Avoid: 
 First Priority:  idr rtgwg rtgarea lsvr rift spring
 Second Priority:  bess bier netmod



People who must be present:
  Acee Lindem
  Christian Hopps
  Alvaro Retana

Resources Requested:

Special Requests:
  
---------------------------------------------------------


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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels
        Authors         : Anton Smirnov
                          Alvaro Retana
                          Michael Barnes
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te-02.txt
	Pages           : 8
	Date            : 2018-04-19

Abstract:
   When using Traffic Engineering (TE) in a dual-stack IPv4/IPv6 network
   the Multiprotocol Label Switching (MPLS) TE Label Switched Paths
   (LSP) infrastructure may be duplicated, even if the destination IPv4
   and IPv6 addresses belong to the same remote router.  In order to
   achieve an integrated MPLS TE LSP infrastructure, OSPF routes must be
   computed over MPLS TE tunnels created using information propagated in
   another OSPF instance.  This is solved by advertising cross-address
   family (X-AF) OSPF TE information.

   This document describes an update to RFC5786 that allows for the easy
   identification of a router's local X-AF IP addresses.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te/

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From nobody Thu Apr 19 14:04:23 2018
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
References: <B2F48CF9-4853-479D-BAD9-4A4AD7088375@cisco.com> <5189f820-58a2-7783-284f-1bdbfc5f054f@cisco.com> <E721F0E4-D4E9-4D03-AA5E-0FB31F8F1B49@cisco.com>
From: Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>
Organization: Cisco Systems
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Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 23:04:15 +0200
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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    Hi Acee,
    to refresh the draft I published a new revision with changes we 
agreed upon (like dropping 'MPLS' from title) and minor editorial 
changes (change group to LSR and the like). I didn't add text to the 
backward compatibility section that you found confusing.
    Please give me know if answers in my previous email didn't clarify 
your questions/concerns.

---
Anton


On 04/07/18 23:06, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Anton,
> 
> ﻿On 4/6/18, 7:33 AM, "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com> wrote:
> 
>          Hi Acee,
>          my answers below (I didn't vet them with other authors, so they 
> may
>      express different opinions).
> 
>       >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For example: 
> “OSPF
>       >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
> 
>          Your proposed variant drops two pieces: "Routing with" and "MPLS".
>      Dropping mention to MPLS is fine with me. Dropping "Routing with" 
> seems
>      to me less correct because the draft is about ways to compute 
> routes and
>      not about setting up/managing tunnels.
>          But ultimately I have no strong feelings here and if there is a
>      requirement to shorten document's name then that would be a good 
> candidate.
> 
> 
>       >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC 8174
>      version?
> 
>          OK, we will publish new document revision when we agreed on other
>      points.
> 
> 
>       >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>       >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area of 
> local
>       >     IP address?
> 
>          Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area 
> borders are
>      laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that 
> router is
>      ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective this, of
>      course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
> 
> I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are 
> advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the TED 
> and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to search all 
> the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment model makes sense 
> and I don't think this should be supported.
> 
> 
>       >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also discuss the
>       >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints? 
> Also state
>       >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the 
> endpoints are
>       >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or 
> describe the
>       >     behavior if this is not the intension.
> 
>          We can add paragraph saying something like:
>      "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST
>      advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that will
>      perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both tunnel 
> headend
>      and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing XAF
>      routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other 
> routers
>      in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or interpret 
> Node
>      Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels 
> signaled
>      by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route computation in
>      OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as tunnel
>      endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."
> 
>      Will this text work?
> 
> I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the 
> perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also, you 
> lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single 
> protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and 
> IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to operate 
> both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF LSP - correct?
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> 
>      ---
>      Anton
> 
> 
>      On 04/04/18 20:13, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>      > Hi Anton, Alvaro, and Mike,
>      >
>      > In preparation for WG last call, I have a couple comments.
>      >
>      >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For example: 
> “OSPF
>      >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>      >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC 8174 
> version?
>      >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>      >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area of 
> local
>      >     IP address?
>      >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also discuss the
>      >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints? 
> Also state
>      >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the 
> endpoints are
>      >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or 
> describe the
>      >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>      >
>      > Thanks,
>      >
>      > Acee
>      >
> 
> 


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
Thread-Index: AQHTzECcXJCh/T3oREuLrU8t7rUtP6Pz4GmAgAHvowCAC1/egIAHgnmA
Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2018 21:29:09 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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--_000_9D9A9DC646594603AE55A4A444687D71ciscocom_--


From nobody Thu Apr 19 20:05:10 2018
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 03:04:57 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Peter,

Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Dra=
fts
>=20
> Hi Dongjie,
>=20
> please see inline:
>=20
> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
> >
> > SR algorithm as defined in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
> > is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, strict S=
PF, etc.
> >
> > In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended to
> > include topological constraints and the metric type used in
> > calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to multi-topology =
routing
> (MTR).
>=20
> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR participation=
 needs
> to be advertised on a per link basis. There is no such concept in flex-al=
go draft.

Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific sub-topology in th=
e network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality. Flex-algo =
uses link affinity to describe the constraints of the corresponding topolog=
y, which is also a link attribute and needs to be configured on a per-link =
basis.=20

The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent topology i=
s constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the topolo=
gy. While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the alg=
orithm definition by each node, and priority based selection is used to rea=
ch a consistent view by all nodes.=20

> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
=09
Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology, and can =
also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR? In the latter=
 case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on top of a sub-topology (M=
TR) of the default topology, which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another =
way is to use MTR to create the sub-topology needed, and define the metric =
type and computation algorithm using a particular flex-algo?=20

> > Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm definition is
> > topology independent", while in some places Flex Algo is described as
> > a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
>=20
> there is no mention of MTR in the document.

I was referring to another relevant draft: draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-t=
opology-00. Sorry for the confusion caused. It seems that draft considered =
MTR and flex-algo as comparable candidates for creating sub-topology.

> > It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and MTR
> > can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are complementary
> > to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace MTR?
>=20
> they are orthogonal.

If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid overlapping=
 functionalities in topology definition and creation.=20

Best regards,
Jie


> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
> >
> > And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it would
> > be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two mechanisms somewher=
e.
> >
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Jie
> >
> > *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem
> > (acee)
> > *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
> > *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> > *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
> > Drafts
> >
> > This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex Algorithm
> > drafts:
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/
> >
> > https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
> >
> > The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018. Please
> > indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
> >
> > Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into a
> > single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Acee
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >


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Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 09:31:05 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Dongjie,

please see inline:


On 20/04/18 05:04 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
>>
>> Hi Dongjie,
>>
>> please see inline:
>>
>> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
>>>
>>> SR algorithm as defined in draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
>>> is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, strict SPF, etc.
>>>
>>> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended to
>>> include topological constraints and the metric type used in
>>> calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to multi-topology routing
>> (MTR).
>>
>> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR participation needs
>> to be advertised on a per link basis. There is no such concept in flex-algo draft.
>
> Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific sub-topology in the network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality. Flex-algo uses link affinity to describe the constraints of the corresponding topology, which is also a link attribute and needs to be configured on a per-link basis.
>
> The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent topology is constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the topology. While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the algorithm definition by each node, and priority based selection is used to reach a consistent view by all nodes.
>
>> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
> 	
> Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology, and can also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR?

yes

> In the latter case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on top of a sub-topology (MTR) of the default topology,

no. We don't create any topologies with flex-algo. We compute 
constrained based paths.

> which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another way is to use MTR to create the sub-topology needed, and define the metric type and computation algorithm using a particular flex-algo?

what we propose is simple - compute multiple constrained based paths on 
top of a given topology.

What you propose is indeed complicated - create as many topologies as 
many constrained based paths you need. That solution does not scale.

>
>>> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm definition is
>>> topology independent", while in some places Flex Algo is described as
>>> a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
>>
>> there is no mention of MTR in the document.
>
> I was referring to another relevant draft: draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-00. Sorry for the confusion caused. It seems that draft considered MTR and flex-algo as comparable candidates for creating sub-topology.

then please talk to the authors of that draft.

>
>>> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and MTR
>>> can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are complementary
>>> to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace MTR?
>>
>> they are orthogonal.
>
> If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid overlapping functionalities in topology definition and creation.

orthogonal does not mean overlapping.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Best regards,
> Jie
>
>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>>
>>> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it would
>>> be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two mechanisms somewhere.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Jie
>>>
>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem
>>> (acee)
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
>>> Drafts
>>>
>>> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex Algorithm
>>> drafts:
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/
>>>
>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>>>
>>> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018. Please
>>> indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>>>
>>> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into a
>>> single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> Acee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Lsr mailing list
>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>
>
> .
>


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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Peter,=20

Please see inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:31 PM
> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Dra=
fts
>=20
> Hi Dongjie,
>=20
> please see inline:
>=20
>=20
> On 20/04/18 05:04 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> >> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
> >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> >> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
> >> Drafts
> >>
> >> Hi Dongjie,
> >>
> >> please see inline:
> >>
> >> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
> >>>
> >>> SR algorithm as defined in
> >>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
> >>> is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, strict=
 SPF, etc.
> >>>
> >>> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended to
> >>> include topological constraints and the metric type used in
> >>> calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to
> >>> multi-topology routing
> >> (MTR).
> >>
> >> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR
> >> participation needs to be advertised on a per link basis. There is no =
such
> concept in flex-algo draft.
> >
> > Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific sub-topology i=
n the
> network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality. Flex-algo =
uses link
> affinity to describe the constraints of the corresponding topology, which=
 is also
> a link attribute and needs to be configured on a per-link basis.
> >
> > The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent topolo=
gy is
> constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the topolo=
gy.
> While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the algor=
ithm
> definition by each node, and priority based selection is used to reach a
> consistent view by all nodes.
> >
> >> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
> >
> > Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology, and =
can
> also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR?
>=20
> yes
>=20
> > In the latter case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on top of
> > a sub-topology (MTR) of the default topology,
>=20
> no. We don't create any topologies with flex-algo. We compute constrained
> based paths.

MTR is also used to compute constrained based path:) The constraint is desc=
ribed as a sub-topology.

With flex-algo, you need to define the algorithm first, then the constraine=
d path can be computed according to the algorithm.=20

According to your presentation in IETF101, a flex-algo specifies:=20

  a) Set of constraints - e.g affinity exclude-any, include-any, include-al=
l
  b) Metric type - IGP metric, Delay (RFC7810), TE metric (RFC5305), ...
  c) Algorithm type - SPF, ...

As I see a) defines a constrained topology, or a sub-topology.=20

> > which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another way is to use MTR to crea=
te
> the sub-topology needed, and define the metric type and computation
> algorithm using a particular flex-algo?
>=20
> what we propose is simple - compute multiple constrained based paths on t=
op
> of a given topology.
>=20
> What you propose is indeed complicated - create as many topologies as man=
y
> constrained based paths you need. That solution does not scale.

Not exactly. Multiple constrained paths can be created in the same sub-topo=
logy. You don't need as many topologies as the number of paths.=20

> >
> >>> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm definition
> >>> is topology independent", while in some places Flex Algo is
> >>> described as a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
> >>
> >> there is no mention of MTR in the document.
> >
> > I was referring to another relevant draft:
> draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-00. Sorry for the confusion cause=
d. It
> seems that draft considered MTR and flex-algo as comparable candidates fo=
r
> creating sub-topology.
>=20
> then please talk to the authors of that draft.

OK. It seems some sync up is needed to have consistent understanding of wha=
t flex-algo means.

> >
> >>> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and MTR
> >>> can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are
> >>> complementary to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace MTR=
?
> >>
> >> they are orthogonal.
> >
> > If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid overlap=
ping
> functionalities in topology definition and creation.
>=20
> orthogonal does not mean overlapping.

Right, in order to make them orthogonal, overlapping (if any) should be res=
olved.=20

Best regards,
Jie

>=20
> thanks,
> Peter
>=20
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jie
> >
> >
> >> thanks,
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>>
> >>> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it
> >>> would be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two mechanisms
> somewhere.
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>>
> >>> Jie
> >>>
> >>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem
> >>> (acee)
> >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
> >>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> >>> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
> >>> Drafts
> >>>
> >>> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex
> >>> Algorithm
> >>> drafts:
> >>>
> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-alg
> >>> o/
> >>>
> >>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
> >>>
> >>> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018.
> >>> Please indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
> >>>
> >>> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into
> >>> a single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>>
> >>> Acee
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> Lsr mailing list
> >>> Lsr@ietf.org
> >>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >>>
> >
> > .
> >


From nobody Fri Apr 20 02:18:42 2018
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12.txt
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : OSPFv3 Extensions for Segment Routing
        Authors         : Peter Psenak
                          Clarence Filsfils
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Hannes Gredler
                          Rob Shakir
                          Wim Henderickx
                          Jeff Tantsura
	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12.txt
	Pages           : 28
	Date            : 2018-04-20

Abstract:
   Segment Routing (SR) allows a flexible definition of end-to-end paths
   within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological
   sub-paths, called "segments".  These segments are advertised by the
   link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF).

   This draft describes the OSPFv3 extensions required for Segment
   Routing.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 11:33:51 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/uc6H6apmoXiW-YDq1mr66dFDzUQ>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Dongjie,

On 20/04/18 11:00 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Please see inline:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:31 PM
>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
>>
>> Hi Dongjie,
>>
>> please see inline:
>>
>>
>> On 20/04/18 05:04 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
>>> Hi Peter,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
>>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
>>>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
>>>> Drafts
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dongjie,
>>>>
>>>> please see inline:
>>>>
>>>> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
>>>>>
>>>>> SR algorithm as defined in
>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
>>>>> is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, strict SPF, etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended to
>>>>> include topological constraints and the metric type used in
>>>>> calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to
>>>>> multi-topology routing
>>>> (MTR).
>>>>
>>>> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR
>>>> participation needs to be advertised on a per link basis. There is no such
>> concept in flex-algo draft.
>>>
>>> Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific sub-topology in the
>> network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality. Flex-algo uses link
>> affinity to describe the constraints of the corresponding topology, which is also
>> a link attribute and needs to be configured on a per-link basis.
>>>
>>> The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent topology is
>> constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the topology.
>> While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the algorithm
>> definition by each node, and priority based selection is used to reach a
>> consistent view by all nodes.
>>>
>>>> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
>>>
>>> Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology, and can
>> also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR?
>>
>> yes
>>
>>> In the latter case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on top of
>>> a sub-topology (MTR) of the default topology,
>>
>> no. We don't create any topologies with flex-algo. We compute constrained
>> based paths.
>
> MTR is also used to compute constrained based path:) The constraint is described as a sub-topology.

you are mixing two different things - topology and path computations, 
these are two different things.

>
> With flex-algo, you need to define the algorithm first, then the constrained path can be computed according to the algorithm.
>
> According to your presentation in IETF101, a flex-algo specifies:
>
>    a) Set of constraints - e.g affinity exclude-any, include-any, include-all
>    b) Metric type - IGP metric, Delay (RFC7810), TE metric (RFC5305), ...
>    c) Algorithm type - SPF, ...
>
> As I see a) defines a constrained topology, or a sub-topology.

again, you are mixing "set of constraints" with a "topology", these are 
two different things.

>
>>> which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another way is to use MTR to create
>> the sub-topology needed, and define the metric type and computation
>> algorithm using a particular flex-algo?
>>
>> what we propose is simple - compute multiple constrained based paths on top
>> of a given topology.
>>
>> What you propose is indeed complicated - create as many topologies as many
>> constrained based paths you need. That solution does not scale.
>
> Not exactly. Multiple constrained paths can be created in the same sub-topology. You don't need as many topologies as the number of paths.

if you calculate multiple constrained paths on a single MT, you need to 
agree what the constraints are for each calculation and that is what the 
flex-algo draft is doing.

regards,
Peter

>
>>>
>>>>> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm definition
>>>>> is topology independent", while in some places Flex Algo is
>>>>> described as a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
>>>>
>>>> there is no mention of MTR in the document.
>>>
>>> I was referring to another relevant draft:
>> draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-00. Sorry for the confusion caused. It
>> seems that draft considered MTR and flex-algo as comparable candidates for
>> creating sub-topology.
>>
>> then please talk to the authors of that draft.
>
> OK. It seems some sync up is needed to have consistent understanding of what flex-algo means.
>
>>>
>>>>> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and MTR
>>>>> can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are
>>>>> complementary to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace MTR?
>>>>
>>>> they are orthogonal.
>>>
>>> If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid overlapping
>> functionalities in topology definition and creation.
>>
>> orthogonal does not mean overlapping.
>
> Right, in order to make them orthogonal, overlapping (if any) should be resolved.
>
> Best regards,
> Jie
>
>>
>> thanks,
>> Peter
>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jie
>>>
>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it
>>>>> would be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two mechanisms
>> somewhere.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Jie
>>>>>
>>>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem
>>>>> (acee)
>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
>>>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
>>>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
>>>>> Drafts
>>>>>
>>>>> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex
>>>>> Algorithm
>>>>> drafts:
>>>>>
>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-alg
>>>>> o/
>>>>>
>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>>>>>
>>>>> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018.
>>>>> Please indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>>>>>
>>>>> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into
>>>>> a single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>
>>>>> Acee
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>
> .
>


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12.txt
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This just updates/corrects some references which was necessary as some 
of the referenced content moved into a different draft.

On 20/04/18 11:18 , internet-drafts@ietf.org wrote:
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.
>
>          Title           : OSPFv3 Extensions for Segment Routing
>          Authors         : Peter Psenak
>                            Clarence Filsfils
>                            Stefano Previdi
>                            Hannes Gredler
>                            Rob Shakir
>                            Wim Henderickx
>                            Jeff Tantsura
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12.txt
> 	Pages           : 28
> 	Date            : 2018-04-20
>
> Abstract:
>     Segment Routing (SR) allows a flexible definition of end-to-end paths
>     within IGP topologies by encoding paths as sequences of topological
>     sub-paths, called "segments".  These segments are advertised by the
>     link-state routing protocols (IS-IS and OSPF).
>
>     This draft describes the OSPFv3 extensions required for Segment
>     Routing.
>
>
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions/
>
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12
>
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-ospf-ospfv3-segment-routing-extensions-12
>
>
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> .
>


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/yAVFYPwuNdXhGzExry_MpDqGXvs>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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From nobody Fri Apr 20 05:02:09 2018
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From: "Kenji Kumaki" <ke-kumaki@kddi.com>
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Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2018 21:01:24 +0900
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi,

I'd like to support the following draft. Actually, it is a very useful draft from operational perspective.

Regards,
Kenji

> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee Lindem
> (acee)
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm 
> Drafts
>
> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex 
> Algorithm
> drafts:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-alg
> o/
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>
> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018. 
> Please indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>
> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into 
> a single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr



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From: Huaimo Chen <huaimo.chen@huawei.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Jie -

I strongly agree with Peter here.

It is "tempting" to think of algorithm/topology as interchangeable - but I =
think it is wrong to do so.
It is true that some things achievable via flex-algo could be achieved usin=
g a separate topology - but at a much higher deployment cost and with consi=
derably less flexibility.

The "right way" to think of flex-algo is as a constraint based SPF applied =
to a given topology.=20

Today, topologies are most commonly used to define a set of nodes/links whi=
ch support a particular functionality (e.g., IPv4, IPv6, multicast).

To take a simple example, if a given flex-algorithm  is defined to prefer "=
blue" links one could:

1)Calculate shortest path using only blue links on a unicast topology. Resu=
lt would be used to forward a certain class of unicast traffic.

2)Calculate shortest path using only blue links on a multicast topology. Re=
sult would be used to build an RPF tree for some subset of multicast traffi=
c.

Could you do this purely with MT? Yes - but it would require introducing tw=
o new topologies (blue unicast, blue multicast), advertising additional top=
ology specific support per adjacency, and configuring additional topology s=
upport per link on every router in the network which participates in the ne=
w topologies.
And if you wanted to prefer green links for another use case, you would the=
n have to introduce two more topologies.
Much much easier to simply advertise support for a given algorithm and use =
it on the topology(s) where you have a use case.

And this example is a very simple one. Flex-algo supports multiple constrai=
nts besides affinity - so the scalability of using a separate topology for =
each set of constraints is extremely poor.

HTH

    Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Peter Psenak (ppsenak)
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 2:34 AM
> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Dra=
fts
>=20
> Dongjie,
>=20
> On 20/04/18 11:00 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Please see inline:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:31 PM
> >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> >> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
> >> Drafts
> >>
> >> Hi Dongjie,
> >>
> >> please see inline:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 20/04/18 05:04 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> >>> Hi Peter,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
> >>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> >>>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
> >>>> Algorithm Drafts
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Dongjie,
> >>>>
> >>>> please see inline:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> SR algorithm as defined in
> >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
> >>>>> is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, stri=
ct SPF,
> etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended
> >>>>> to include topological constraints and the metric type used in
> >>>>> calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to
> >>>>> multi-topology routing
> >>>> (MTR).
> >>>>
> >>>> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR
> >>>> participation needs to be advertised on a per link basis. There is
> >>>> no such
> >> concept in flex-algo draft.
> >>>
> >>> Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific
> >>> sub-topology in the
> >> network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality.
> >> Flex-algo uses link affinity to describe the constraints of the
> >> corresponding topology, which is also a link attribute and needs to be
> configured on a per-link basis.
> >>>
> >>> The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent
> >>> topology is
> >> constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the
> topology.
> >> While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the
> >> algorithm definition by each node, and priority based selection is
> >> used to reach a consistent view by all nodes.
> >>>
> >>>> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
> >>>
> >>> Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology,
> >>> and can
> >> also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR?
> >>
> >> yes
> >>
> >>> In the latter case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on top
> >>> of a sub-topology (MTR) of the default topology,
> >>
> >> no. We don't create any topologies with flex-algo. We compute
> >> constrained based paths.
> >
> > MTR is also used to compute constrained based path:) The constraint is
> described as a sub-topology.
>=20
> you are mixing two different things - topology and path computations, the=
se
> are two different things.
>=20
> >
> > With flex-algo, you need to define the algorithm first, then the constr=
ained
> path can be computed according to the algorithm.
> >
> > According to your presentation in IETF101, a flex-algo specifies:
> >
> >    a) Set of constraints - e.g affinity exclude-any, include-any, inclu=
de-all
> >    b) Metric type - IGP metric, Delay (RFC7810), TE metric (RFC5305), .=
..
> >    c) Algorithm type - SPF, ...
> >
> > As I see a) defines a constrained topology, or a sub-topology.
>=20
> again, you are mixing "set of constraints" with a "topology", these are t=
wo
> different things.
>=20
> >
> >>> which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another way is to use MTR to
> >>> create
> >> the sub-topology needed, and define the metric type and computation
> >> algorithm using a particular flex-algo?
> >>
> >> what we propose is simple - compute multiple constrained based paths
> >> on top of a given topology.
> >>
> >> What you propose is indeed complicated - create as many topologies as
> >> many constrained based paths you need. That solution does not scale.
> >
> > Not exactly. Multiple constrained paths can be created in the same sub-
> topology. You don't need as many topologies as the number of paths.
>=20
> if you calculate multiple constrained paths on a single MT, you need to a=
gree
> what the constraints are for each calculation and that is what the flex-a=
lgo
> draft is doing.
>=20
> regards,
> Peter
>=20
> >
> >>>
> >>>>> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm
> >>>>> definition is topology independent", while in some places Flex
> >>>>> Algo is described as a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
> >>>>
> >>>> there is no mention of MTR in the document.
> >>>
> >>> I was referring to another relevant draft:
> >> draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-00. Sorry for the confusion
> >> caused. It seems that draft considered MTR and flex-algo as
> >> comparable candidates for creating sub-topology.
> >>
> >> then please talk to the authors of that draft.
> >
> > OK. It seems some sync up is needed to have consistent understanding of
> what flex-algo means.
> >
> >>>
> >>>>> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and
> >>>>> MTR can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are
> >>>>> complementary to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace
> MTR?
> >>>>
> >>>> they are orthogonal.
> >>>
> >>> If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid
> >>> overlapping
> >> functionalities in topology definition and creation.
> >>
> >> orthogonal does not mean overlapping.
> >
> > Right, in order to make them orthogonal, overlapping (if any) should be
> resolved.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jie
> >
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Jie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> thanks,
> >>>> Peter
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it
> >>>>> would be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two
> >>>>> mechanisms
> >> somewhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jie
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee
> >>>>> Lindem
> >>>>> (acee)
> >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
> >>>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
> >>>>> Algorithm Drafts
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex
> >>>>> Algorithm
> >>>>> drafts:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-a
> >>>>> lg
> >>>>> o/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018.
> >>>>> Please indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts
> >>>>> into a single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as w=
ell.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Acee
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Lsr mailing list
> >>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>> .
> >>>
> >
> > .
> >
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


From nobody Fri Apr 20 12:41:21 2018
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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From: Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>
Organization: Cisco Systems
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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    Hi Acee,

 > I guess I see the use case described below as only one of the potential
 > use cases for the X-AF tunnels.

    Correct. At the very minimum technique is symmetric, i.e. can 
equally be applied to compute OSPFv2/IPv4 routes over TE tunnels with 
IPv6 tailend where TE LSAs were distributed by OSPFv3. But as you noted 
the same technique can be applied to other use cases, i.e. to tunnels 
other than MPLS TE and even use cases other than tunneling.
    The document's text tries to account for these multiple 
applications. This is good for generalization but makes text a bit 
abstract and thus difficult to understand. We tried to mitigate 
abstractness of general description with down-to-earth example of IPv6 
routes over IPv4 TE tunnels that present day reader (or should I already 
say year-2013 reader? things have already changed quite a bit since 
then) should find most practical.


 > You can certainly keep this use case but I’d reference RFC
 > 3906 (informational reference) and state that there could alternate use
 > cases.

    At one point in time authors discussed adding one sentence saying 
that proposed technique can be employed in other use cases, notably 
those requiring mapping of an address from OSPFv2 database to router LSA 
in OSPFv3 LSDB and vice verse. I don't see any similar statement in the 
latest text, we must have dropped it. May be we should reinstall it.

---
Anton


On 04/19/18 23:29, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Anton,
> 
> I guess I see the use case described below as only one of the potential 
> use cases for the X-AF tunnels. It seems that path computation, either 
> head-end or PCE, could also use the dual-stack endpoint information. 
> Note that the OSPF doesn’t establish the LSPs or even advertise the LSPs 
> themselves– it merely populates the TE Database. I know that you know 
> this but you want to assure your text doesn’t imply otherwise. Do you 
> disagree? You can certainly keep this use case but I’d reference RFC 
> 3906 (informational reference) and state that there could alternate use 
> cases. Perhaps, your fellow author Alvaro (of OSPF TTZ fame) could help 
> with some generic text preceding the specific IGP Shortcut use case.
> 
> Let me see if I can massage the backward compatibility text. I’m 
> requested a Routing Directorate review and I’m going to start the LSR WG 
> last call shortly.
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> *From: *"Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>
> *Organization: *Cisco Systems
> *Date: *Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:48 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" 
> <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic 
> Engineering Tunnels
> 
>     Hi Acee,
> 
>     sorry for my slow response.
> 
>     Before answering questions lets establish 'prerequisites' of the 
> problem.
> 
> - Network is dual stack, OSPFv2 is used to route IPv4, OSPFv3 is used to 
> route IPv6
> 
> - TE LSAs are originated as per [RFC3630] and flooded in OSPFv2
> 
> - 'Endpoint' of each MPLS TE tunnel is IPv4 address
> 
> - There is a desire to make OSPFv3 to compute IPv6 routes over TE 
> tunnels - of which OSPFv3 has no topological information
> 
>           >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>           >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the
>     area of local
>           >     IP address?
> 
>              Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area
>     borders are
>          laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that
>     router is
>          ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective
>     this, of
>          course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
> 
>     I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are
>     advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the
>     TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to
>     search all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment
>     model makes sense and I don't think this should be supported.
> 
>     No, TE LSAs are advertised only in OSPFv2.
>     Consider information available to OSPFv3 on tunnel headend router. 
> Endpoint address of TE tunnel is IPv4 address, say 7.7.7.7 (this address 
> is what tunnel tailend router advertises in OSPFv2 TE LSA in the Router 
> Address TLV). OSPFv3 needs to find what router in what area corresponds 
> to router that advertises that TE LSA in OSPFv2.
> 
>     That is, OSPFv3 has no its own TE information and not even a hint to 
> which area may belong the tailend router.
> 
> 
> 
>           >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>     discuss the
>           >     requirements for backward compatibility of the
>     endpoints? Also state
>           >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>     endpoints are
>           >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>     describe the
>           >     behavior if this is not the intension.
> 
>              We can add paragraph saying something like:
>          "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST
>          advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that
>     will
>          perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both
>     tunnel headend
>          and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing
>     XAF
>          routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other
>     routers
>          in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
>     interpret Node
>          Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels
>     signaled
>          by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
>     computation in
>          OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as
>     tunnel
>          endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."
> 
>          Will this text work?
> 
>     I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the
>     perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also,
>     you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single
>     protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and
>     IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to
>     operate both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF
>     LSP - correct?
> 
> But OSPFv2 does not produce IPv6 routes. Both protocols operate in the 
> network:
> 
> - OSPFv2 computes IPv4 routes and distributes TE database
> 
> - OSPFv3 computes IPv6 routes. If TE tunnels provide shortcut to 
> destination then OSPFv3 will point route into the tunnel.
> 
> ---
> 
> Anton
> 
> On 04/07/18 23:06, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> 
>     Hi Anton,
> 
>     On 4/6/18, 7:33 AM, "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)"
>     <asmirnov@cisco.com><mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com>wrote:
> 
>              Hi Acee,
>              my answers below (I didn't vet them with other authors, so
>     they may
>          express different opinions).
> 
>           >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For
>     example: “OSPF
>           >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
> 
>              Your proposed variant drops two pieces: "Routing with" and
>     "MPLS".
>          Dropping mention to MPLS is fine with me. Dropping "Routing
>     with" seems
>          to me less correct because the draft is about ways to compute
>     routes and
>          not about setting up/managing tunnels.
>              But ultimately I have no strong feelings here and if there
>     is a
>          requirement to shorten document's name then that would be a
>     good candidate.
> 
> 
>           >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC
>     8174
>          version?
> 
>              OK, we will publish new document revision when we agreed on
>     other
>          points.
> 
> 
>           >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>           >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the
>     area of local
>           >     IP address?
> 
>              Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area
>     borders are
>          laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that
>     router is
>          ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective
>     this, of
>          course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
> 
>     I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are
>     advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the
>     TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to
>     search all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment
>     model makes sense and I don't think this should be supported.
> 
> 
>           >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>     discuss the
>           >     requirements for backward compatibility of the
>     endpoints? Also state
>           >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>     endpoints are
>           >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>     describe the
>           >     behavior if this is not the intension.
> 
>              We can add paragraph saying something like:
>          "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST
>          advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that
>     will
>          perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both
>     tunnel headend
>          and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing
>     XAF
>          routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other
>     routers
>          in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
>     interpret Node
>          Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels
>     signaled
>          by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
>     computation in
>          OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as
>     tunnel
>          endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."
> 
>          Will this text work?
> 
>     I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the
>     perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also,
>     you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single
>     protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and
>     IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to
>     operate both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF
>     LSP - correct?
> 
>     Thanks,
>     Acee
> 
> 
>          ---
>          Anton
> 
> 
>          On 04/04/18 20:13, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>          > Hi Anton, Alvaro, and Mike,
>          >
>          > In preparation for WG last call, I have a couple comments.
>          >
>          >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For
>     example: “OSPF
>          >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>          >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC
>     8174 version?
>          >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>          >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area
>     of local
>          >     IP address?
>          >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>     discuss the
>          >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints?
>     Also state
>          >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>     endpoints are
>          >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>     describe the
>          >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>          >
>          > Thanks,
>          >
>          > Acee
>          >
> 
> 
> 


From nobody Fri Apr 20 19:42:21 2018
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From: Mach Chen <mach.chen@huawei.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Les, Jie and others,

I think both Flex Algo and MTR are useful and have their own use cases. And=
 actually Flex Algo and MTR could be complementary each other.=20

As Les said, flex-algorithm calculates paths on a specific topology (defaul=
t, blue, green...).  So, it implies that the precondition is that there sho=
uld be a topology.  The topology can be the default IGP topology, or a cust=
omized topology created by MTR or flex-algorithm.  There may be different u=
nderstandings about the topology creation, but it's not that important, IMH=
O.  To "create/form" the topology, both MTR and flex-algorithm need to do s=
ome planning and configurations.=20

Best regards,
Mach=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Les Ginsberg (ginsbe=
rg)
> Sent: Saturday, April 21, 2018 1:44 AM
> To: Peter Psenak (ppsenak) <ppsenak@cisco.com>; Dongjie (Jimmy)
> <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee) <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Dra=
fts
>=20
> Jie -
>=20
> I strongly agree with Peter here.
>=20
> It is "tempting" to think of algorithm/topology as interchangeable - but =
I think it
> is wrong to do so.
> It is true that some things achievable via flex-algo could be achieved us=
ing a
> separate topology - but at a much higher deployment cost and with
> considerably less flexibility.
>=20
> The "right way" to think of flex-algo is as a constraint based SPF applie=
d to a
> given topology.
>=20
> Today, topologies are most commonly used to define a set of nodes/links w=
hich
> support a particular functionality (e.g., IPv4, IPv6, multicast).
>=20
> To take a simple example, if a given flex-algorithm  is defined to prefer=
 "blue"
> links one could:
>=20
> 1)Calculate shortest path using only blue links on a unicast topology. Re=
sult
> would be used to forward a certain class of unicast traffic.
>=20
> 2)Calculate shortest path using only blue links on a multicast topology. =
Result
> would be used to build an RPF tree for some subset of multicast traffic.
>=20
> Could you do this purely with MT? Yes - but it would require introducing =
two
> new topologies (blue unicast, blue multicast), advertising additional top=
ology
> specific support per adjacency, and configuring additional topology suppo=
rt per
> link on every router in the network which participates in the new topolog=
ies.
> And if you wanted to prefer green links for another use case, you would t=
hen
> have to introduce two more topologies.
> Much much easier to simply advertise support for a given algorithm and us=
e it
> on the topology(s) where you have a use case.
>=20
> And this example is a very simple one. Flex-algo supports multiple constr=
aints
> besides affinity - so the scalability of using a separate topology for ea=
ch set of
> constraints is extremely poor.
>=20
> HTH
>=20
>     Les
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Peter Psenak (ppsenak)
> > Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 2:34 AM
> > To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> > <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> > Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
> > Drafts
> >
> > Dongjie,
> >
> > On 20/04/18 11:00 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > > Hi Peter,
> > >
> > > Please see inline:
> > >
> > >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> > >> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:31 PM
> > >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> > >> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> > >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
> > >> Algorithm Drafts
> > >>
> > >> Hi Dongjie,
> > >>
> > >> please see inline:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 20/04/18 05:04 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > >>> Hi Peter,
> > >>>
> > >>> Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:
> > >>>
> > >>>> -----Original Message-----
> > >>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> > >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
> > >>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> > >>>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> > >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
> > >>>> Algorithm Drafts
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Hi Dongjie,
> > >>>>
> > >>>> please see inline:
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > >>>>> Hi,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> SR algorithm as defined in
> > >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
> > >>>>> is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF,
> > >>>>> strict SPF,
> > etc.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended
> > >>>>> to include topological constraints and the metric type used in
> > >>>>> calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to
> > >>>>> multi-topology routing
> > >>>> (MTR).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR
> > >>>> participation needs to be advertised on a per link basis. There
> > >>>> is no such
> > >> concept in flex-algo draft.
> > >>>
> > >>> Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific
> > >>> sub-topology in the
> > >> network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality.
> > >> Flex-algo uses link affinity to describe the constraints of the
> > >> corresponding topology, which is also a link attribute and needs to
> > >> be
> > configured on a per-link basis.
> > >>>
> > >>> The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent
> > >>> topology is
> > >> constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the
> > topology.
> > >> While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the
> > >> algorithm definition by each node, and priority based selection is
> > >> used to reach a consistent view by all nodes.
> > >>>
> > >>>> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
> > >>>
> > >>> Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology,
> > >>> and can
> > >> also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR?
> > >>
> > >> yes
> > >>
> > >>> In the latter case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on
> > >>> top of a sub-topology (MTR) of the default topology,
> > >>
> > >> no. We don't create any topologies with flex-algo. We compute
> > >> constrained based paths.
> > >
> > > MTR is also used to compute constrained based path:) The constraint
> > > is
> > described as a sub-topology.
> >
> > you are mixing two different things - topology and path computations,
> > these are two different things.
> >
> > >
> > > With flex-algo, you need to define the algorithm first, then the
> > > constrained
> > path can be computed according to the algorithm.
> > >
> > > According to your presentation in IETF101, a flex-algo specifies:
> > >
> > >    a) Set of constraints - e.g affinity exclude-any, include-any, inc=
lude-all
> > >    b) Metric type - IGP metric, Delay (RFC7810), TE metric (RFC5305),=
 ...
> > >    c) Algorithm type - SPF, ...
> > >
> > > As I see a) defines a constrained topology, or a sub-topology.
> >
> > again, you are mixing "set of constraints" with a "topology", these
> > are two different things.
> >
> > >
> > >>> which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another way is to use MTR to
> > >>> create
> > >> the sub-topology needed, and define the metric type and computation
> > >> algorithm using a particular flex-algo?
> > >>
> > >> what we propose is simple - compute multiple constrained based
> > >> paths on top of a given topology.
> > >>
> > >> What you propose is indeed complicated - create as many topologies
> > >> as many constrained based paths you need. That solution does not sca=
le.
> > >
> > > Not exactly. Multiple constrained paths can be created in the same
> > > sub-
> > topology. You don't need as many topologies as the number of paths.
> >
> > if you calculate multiple constrained paths on a single MT, you need
> > to agree what the constraints are for each calculation and that is
> > what the flex-algo draft is doing.
> >
> > regards,
> > Peter
> >
> > >
> > >>>
> > >>>>> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm
> > >>>>> definition is topology independent", while in some places Flex
> > >>>>> Algo is described as a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> there is no mention of MTR in the document.
> > >>>
> > >>> I was referring to another relevant draft:
> > >> draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-00. Sorry for the confusion
> > >> caused. It seems that draft considered MTR and flex-algo as
> > >> comparable candidates for creating sub-topology.
> > >>
> > >> then please talk to the authors of that draft.
> > >
> > > OK. It seems some sync up is needed to have consistent understanding
> > > of
> > what flex-algo means.
> > >
> > >>>
> > >>>>> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and
> > >>>>> MTR can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are
> > >>>>> complementary to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to
> > >>>>> replace
> > MTR?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> they are orthogonal.
> > >>>
> > >>> If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid
> > >>> overlapping
> > >> functionalities in topology definition and creation.
> > >>
> > >> orthogonal does not mean overlapping.
> > >
> > > Right, in order to make them orthogonal, overlapping (if any) should
> > > be
> > resolved.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Jie
> > >
> > >>
> > >> thanks,
> > >> Peter
> > >>
> > >>>
> > >>> Best regards,
> > >>> Jie
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> thanks,
> > >>>> Peter
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it
> > >>>>> would be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two
> > >>>>> mechanisms
> > >> somewhere.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Best regards,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Jie
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee
> > >>>>> Lindem
> > >>>>> (acee)
> > >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
> > >>>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> > >>>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
> > >>>>> Algorithm Drafts
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex
> > >>>>> Algorithm
> > >>>>> drafts:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex
> > >>>>> -a
> > >>>>> lg
> > >>>>> o/
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo
> > >>>>> /
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018.
> > >>>>> Please indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts
> > >>>>> into a single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as=
 well.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Thanks,
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Acee
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> _______________________________________________
> > >>>>> Lsr mailing list
> > >>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
> > >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> > >>>>>
> > >>>
> > >>> .
> > >>>
> > >
> > > .
> > >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Lsr mailing list
> > Lsr@ietf.org
> > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Peter,=20

Please see inline:

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 5:34 PM
> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Dra=
fts
>=20
> Dongjie,
>=20
> On 20/04/18 11:00 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > Please see inline:
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> >> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:31 PM
> >> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> >> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> >> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
> >> Drafts
> >>
> >> Hi Dongjie,
> >>
> >> please see inline:
> >>
> >>
> >> On 20/04/18 05:04 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> >>> Hi Peter,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:
> >>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
> >>>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
> >>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
> >>>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
> >>>> Algorithm Drafts
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Dongjie,
> >>>>
> >>>> please see inline:
> >>>>
> >>>> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> SR algorithm as defined in
> >>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
> >>>>> is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, stri=
ct SPF,
> etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended
> >>>>> to include topological constraints and the metric type used in
> >>>>> calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to
> >>>>> multi-topology routing
> >>>> (MTR).
> >>>>
> >>>> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR
> >>>> participation needs to be advertised on a per link basis. There is
> >>>> no such
> >> concept in flex-algo draft.
> >>>
> >>> Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific
> >>> sub-topology in the
> >> network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality.
> >> Flex-algo uses link affinity to describe the constraints of the
> >> corresponding topology, which is also a link attribute and needs to be
> configured on a per-link basis.
> >>>
> >>> The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent
> >>> topology is
> >> constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the top=
ology.
> >> While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the
> >> algorithm definition by each node, and priority based selection is
> >> used to reach a consistent view by all nodes.
> >>>
> >>>> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
> >>>
> >>> Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology,
> >>> and can
> >> also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR?
> >>
> >> yes
> >>
> >>> In the latter case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on top
> >>> of a sub-topology (MTR) of the default topology,
> >>
> >> no. We don't create any topologies with flex-algo. We compute
> >> constrained based paths.
> >
> > MTR is also used to compute constrained based path:) The constraint is
> described as a sub-topology.
>=20
> you are mixing two different things - topology and path computations, the=
se
> are two different things.

As I mentioned in previous mail, there are two steps:=20

1. Define a particular topology or topological constraints.
2. Perform path computation using specific metric type and computation algo=
rithm (currently SPF).

IMO these two steps can be orthogonal to each other. The topology can be de=
fined using either MTR or link affinities. IMO they provide the same functi=
onality with similar cost. Note that using affinity does not mean less conf=
iguration workload, as affinity also needs to be configured on each link. I=
f you want to define a particular topology (topological constraint), you pr=
obably need to introduce new affinities and configure them on the links you=
 want to include.

To me it makes more sense to decouple step 1 and step2, and only use flex-a=
lgo to cover the step 2. For example, flex-algo 1 can be defined as "using =
SPF computation with latency metric". This way, this flex-algo can be reuse=
d in different topologies. Also multiple flex-algos can be used in one topo=
logy. So it would be more flexible than binding a flex-algo with particular=
 topological constraints.

> >
> > With flex-algo, you need to define the algorithm first, then the constr=
ained
> path can be computed according to the algorithm.
> >
> > According to your presentation in IETF101, a flex-algo specifies:
> >
> >    a) Set of constraints - e.g affinity exclude-any, include-any, inclu=
de-all
> >    b) Metric type - IGP metric, Delay (RFC7810), TE metric (RFC5305), .=
..
> >    c) Algorithm type - SPF, ...
> >
> > As I see a) defines a constrained topology, or a sub-topology.
>=20
> again, you are mixing "set of constraints" with a "topology", these are t=
wo
> different things.

As I mentioned above, what I mean is to separate the "topological constrain=
ts" and the "algorithm constraints". The former can be done in multiple way=
s, and requires distributed configuration, while the latter is more like a =
centralized definition.

> >
> >>> which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another way is to use MTR to
> >>> create
> >> the sub-topology needed, and define the metric type and computation
> >> algorithm using a particular flex-algo?
> >>
> >> what we propose is simple - compute multiple constrained based paths
> >> on top of a given topology.
> >>
> >> What you propose is indeed complicated - create as many topologies as
> >> many constrained based paths you need. That solution does not scale.
> >
> > Not exactly. Multiple constrained paths can be created in the same
> sub-topology. You don't need as many topologies as the number of paths.
>=20
> if you calculate multiple constrained paths on a single MT, you need to a=
gree
> what the constraints are for each calculation and that is what the flex-a=
lgo
> draft is doing.

That's why in the beginning I want to confirm whether flex-algo can be used=
 with MT.=20

But within an MT, I'm not sure whether topological constraint should be fur=
ther specified using the mechanism defined in flex-algo. Maybe only use fle=
x-algo to define the metric type and computation algorithm used in this MT?

Best regards,
Jie
>=20
> regards,
> Peter
>=20
> >
> >>>
> >>>>> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm
> >>>>> definition is topology independent", while in some places Flex
> >>>>> Algo is described as a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
> >>>>
> >>>> there is no mention of MTR in the document.
> >>>
> >>> I was referring to another relevant draft:
> >> draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-00. Sorry for the confusion
> >> caused. It seems that draft considered MTR and flex-algo as
> >> comparable candidates for creating sub-topology.
> >>
> >> then please talk to the authors of that draft.
> >
> > OK. It seems some sync up is needed to have consistent understanding of
> what flex-algo means.
> >
> >>>
> >>>>> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and
> >>>>> MTR can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are
> >>>>> complementary to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace M=
TR?
> >>>>
> >>>> they are orthogonal.
> >>>
> >>> If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid
> >>> overlapping
> >> functionalities in topology definition and creation.
> >>
> >> orthogonal does not mean overlapping.
> >
> > Right, in order to make them orthogonal, overlapping (if any) should be
> resolved.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Jie
> >
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>>
> >>> Best regards,
> >>> Jie
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> thanks,
> >>>> Peter
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it
> >>>>> would be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two
> >>>>> mechanisms
> >> somewhere.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best regards,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Jie
> >>>>>
> >>>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee
> >>>>> Lindem
> >>>>> (acee)
> >>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
> >>>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
> >>>>> Algorithm Drafts
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex
> >>>>> Algorithm
> >>>>> drafts:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-a
> >>>>> lg
> >>>>> o/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018.
> >>>>> Please indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts
> >>>>> into a single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as w=
ell.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Thanks,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Acee
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> Lsr mailing list
> >>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
> >>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
> >>>>>
> >>>
> >>> .
> >>>
> >
> > .
> >


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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2018 03:42:46 +0000
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From: "Dongjie (Jimmy)" <jie.dong@huawei.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "Peter Psenak (ppsenak)" <ppsenak@cisco.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2018 21:26:32 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
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Hi Jie,

On 21/04/18 05:26 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
> Hi Peter,
>
> Please see inline:
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 5:34 PM
>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
>>
>> Dongjie,
>>
>> On 20/04/18 11:00 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
>>> Hi Peter,
>>>
>>> Please see inline:
>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>>>> Sent: Friday, April 20, 2018 3:31 PM
>>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
>>>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm
>>>> Drafts
>>>>
>>>> Hi Dongjie,
>>>>
>>>> please see inline:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 20/04/18 05:04 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
>>>>> Hi Peter,
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for the prompt response. Please see inline:
>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: Peter Psenak [mailto:ppsenak@cisco.com]
>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, April 19, 2018 4:28 PM
>>>>>> To: Dongjie (Jimmy) <jie.dong@huawei.com>; Acee Lindem (acee)
>>>>>> <acee@cisco.com>; lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
>>>>>> Algorithm Drafts
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi Dongjie,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> please see inline:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 19/04/18 09:10 , Dongjie (Jimmy) wrote:
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Here are some comments on the Flex Algo drafts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> SR algorithm as defined in
>>>>>>> draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions
>>>>>>> is about the algorithm used for path calculation, such as SPF, strict SPF,
>> etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In the Flex Algo drafts, the definition of algorithm is extended
>>>>>>> to include topological constraints and the metric type used in
>>>>>>> calculation, which makes its functionality analogous to
>>>>>>> multi-topology routing
>>>>>> (MTR).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> not really. MTR is defined on a per link basis and each MTR
>>>>>> participation needs to be advertised on a per link basis. There is
>>>>>> no such
>>>> concept in flex-algo draft.
>>>>>
>>>>> Both mechanisms have the capability to define a specific
>>>>> sub-topology in the
>>>> network, that's why I say they are analogous in functionality.
>>>> Flex-algo uses link affinity to describe the constraints of the
>>>> corresponding topology, which is also a link attribute and needs to be
>> configured on a per-link basis.
>>>>>
>>>>> The difference is in topology advertisement. In MTR a consistent
>>>>> topology is
>>>> constructed by each node advertising its own adjacent links in the topology.
>>>> While in flex-algo, the whole topology is advertised as part of the
>>>> algorithm definition by each node, and priority based selection is
>>>> used to reach a consistent view by all nodes.
>>>>>
>>>>>> Flex-algo works on top of existing IGP topologies.
>>>>>
>>>>> Do you mean flex-algo can work on top of the default IGP topology,
>>>>> and can
>>>> also work on top of multiple IGP topologies created with MTR?
>>>>
>>>> yes
>>>>
>>>>> In the latter case, it seems you would create sub-topologies on top
>>>>> of a sub-topology (MTR) of the default topology,
>>>>
>>>> no. We don't create any topologies with flex-algo. We compute
>>>> constrained based paths.
>>>
>>> MTR is also used to compute constrained based path:) The constraint is
>> described as a sub-topology.
>>
>> you are mixing two different things - topology and path computations, these
>> are two different things.
>
> As I mentioned in previous mail, there are two steps:
>
> 1. Define a particular topology or topological constraints.
> 2. Perform path computation using specific metric type and computation algorithm (currently SPF).
>
> IMO these two steps can be orthogonal to each other. The topology can be defined using either MTR or link affinities. IMO they provide the same functionality with similar cost. Note that using affinity does not mean less configuration workload, as affinity also needs to be configured on each link. If you want to define a particular topology (topological constraint), you probably need to introduce new affinities and configure them on the links you want to include.
>
> To me it makes more sense to decouple step 1 and step2, and only use flex-algo to cover the step 2. For example, flex-algo 1 can be defined as "using SPF computation with latency metric". This way, this flex-algo can be reused in different topologies. Also multiple flex-algos can be used in one topology. So it would be more flexible than binding a flex-algo with particular topological constraints.
>
>>>
>>> With flex-algo, you need to define the algorithm first, then the constrained
>> path can be computed according to the algorithm.
>>>
>>> According to your presentation in IETF101, a flex-algo specifies:
>>>
>>>     a) Set of constraints - e.g affinity exclude-any, include-any, include-all
>>>     b) Metric type - IGP metric, Delay (RFC7810), TE metric (RFC5305), ...
>>>     c) Algorithm type - SPF, ...
>>>
>>> As I see a) defines a constrained topology, or a sub-topology.
>>
>> again, you are mixing "set of constraints" with a "topology", these are two
>> different things.
>
> As I mentioned above, what I mean is to separate the "topological constraints" and the "algorithm constraints". The former can be done in multiple ways, and requires distributed configuration, while the latter is more like a centralized definition.
>
>>>
>>>>> which sounds quite complicated. Maybe another way is to use MTR to
>>>>> create
>>>> the sub-topology needed, and define the metric type and computation
>>>> algorithm using a particular flex-algo?
>>>>
>>>> what we propose is simple - compute multiple constrained based paths
>>>> on top of a given topology.
>>>>
>>>> What you propose is indeed complicated - create as many topologies as
>>>> many constrained based paths you need. That solution does not scale.
>>>
>>> Not exactly. Multiple constrained paths can be created in the same
>> sub-topology. You don't need as many topologies as the number of paths.
>>
>> if you calculate multiple constrained paths on a single MT, you need to agree
>> what the constraints are for each calculation and that is what the flex-algo
>> draft is doing.
>
> That's why in the beginning I want to confirm whether flex-algo can be used with MT.

yes, it can be used with MT.

>
> But within an MT, I'm not sure whether topological constraint should be further specified using the mechanism defined in flex-algo. Maybe only use flex-algo to define the metric type and computation algorithm used in this MT?

in your mind you are still mixing the topology with constraints. We do 
not want to use MT to define constraints. We want to use flex-algo to 
represents the constraints.

thanks,
Peter

>
> Best regards,
> Jie
>>
>> regards,
>> Peter
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> Section 4.1 of the Flex Algo drafts says "Flex-Algorithm
>>>>>>> definition is topology independent", while in some places Flex
>>>>>>> Algo is described as a "light weight alternative" to MTR.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> there is no mention of MTR in the document.
>>>>>
>>>>> I was referring to another relevant draft:
>>>> draft-wijnands-mpls-mldp-multi-topology-00. Sorry for the confusion
>>>> caused. It seems that draft considered MTR and flex-algo as
>>>> comparable candidates for creating sub-topology.
>>>>
>>>> then please talk to the authors of that draft.
>>>
>>> OK. It seems some sync up is needed to have consistent understanding of
>> what flex-algo means.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>> It would be necessary if the relationship between Flex-Algo and
>>>>>>> MTR can be further clarified. Whether the two mechanisms are
>>>>>>> complementary to each other, or Flex-Algo will be used to replace MTR?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> they are orthogonal.
>>>>>
>>>>> If as you said they are orthogonal, it would be better to avoid
>>>>> overlapping
>>>> functionalities in topology definition and creation.
>>>>
>>>> orthogonal does not mean overlapping.
>>>
>>> Right, in order to make them orthogonal, overlapping (if any) should be
>> resolved.
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>> Jie
>>>
>>>>
>>>> thanks,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>> Jie
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> thanks,
>>>>>> Peter
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> And if it is claimed that Flex-Algo is light weight than MTR, it
>>>>>>> would be helpful to give a thorough comparison of the two
>>>>>>> mechanisms
>>>> somewhere.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Best regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Jie
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *From:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *On Behalf Of *Acee
>>>>>>> Lindem
>>>>>>> (acee)
>>>>>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 17, 2018 10:44 PM
>>>>>>> *To:* lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>>> *Subject:* [Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex
>>>>>>> Algorithm Drafts
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex
>>>>>>> Algorithm
>>>>>>> drafts:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-a
>>>>>>> lg
>>>>>>> o/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018.
>>>>>>> Please indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts
>>>>>>> into a single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Acee
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Lsr mailing list
>>>>>>> Lsr@ietf.org
>>>>>>> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> .
>>>>>
>>>
>>> .
>>>
>
> .
>


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From nobody Mon Apr 23 07:02:54 2018
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Subject: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Hi Folks,

We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions/

as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG last call last year. Here's the diff.
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-12&url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16

Will end Monday May 7th.

Thanks,
Chris.

(*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in London. :)


From nobody Mon Apr 23 10:49:43 2018
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Secretary
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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 17:49:35 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Secretary
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr-ads@ietf.org" <lsr-ads@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2018 17:51:29 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Support as co-author.

Note that the substantive changes to the document were to remove the unused=
 ERO types - which was a widely supported change.

    Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Christian Hopps
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 7:03 AM
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Cc: lsr-chairs@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; chopps@chopps.org
> Subject: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension=
s-16
>=20
> Hi Folks,
>=20
> We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on
>=20
>   https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-
> extensions/
>=20
> as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG las=
t
> call last year. Here's the diff.
>     https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-
> extensions-12&url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
>=20
> Will end Monday May 7th.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Chris.
>=20
> (*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in London. =
:)
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/tR4H__BGH25y2c9-HhHKKwhnwIU>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Secretary
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Couldn=E2=80=99t agree more!
Yingzhen is great at everything she does, thanks!
(Don=E2=80=99t forget us, at RTGWG ;-))

Regards,
Jeff

> On Apr 23, 2018, at 10:49, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) <ginsberg@cisco.com> wr=
ote:
>=20
> Bravo!
> Now LSR is a world class WG.
> =20
> Thanx to Yingzhen for taking on this additional responsibility.
> =20
>    Les
> =20
> =20
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Acee Lindem (acee)
> Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 6:43 AM
> To: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] LSR Working Group Secretary
> =20
> All,
> =20
> I=E2=80=99m delighted to announce that Yingzhen Qu has volunteered to take=
 on the role of WG secretary. Yingzhen took the minutes at the first formal m=
eeting of the LSR WG in London and is also RTG WG secretary.
> =20
> Thanks,
> Acee
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Couldn=E2=80=99t agree more!<div>Yingzhen i=
s great at everything she does, thanks!</div><div>(Don=E2=80=99t forget us, a=
t RTGWG ;-))<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Regards,<div>Jeff</div></=
div><div><br>On Apr 23, 2018, at 10:49, Les Ginsberg (ginsberg) &lt;<a href=3D=
"mailto:ginsberg@cisco.com">ginsberg@cisco.com</a>&gt; wrote:<br><br></div><=
blockquote type=3D"cite"><div>

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<div class=3D"WordSection1">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Bravo!=
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Now LS=
R is a world class WG.<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Thanx t=
o Yingzhen for taking on this additional responsibility.<o:p></o:p></span></=
p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">&nbsp;=
&nbsp; Les<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"><o:p>&=
nbsp;</o:p></span></p>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-left:solid blue 1.5pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 4=
.0pt">
<div>
<div style=3D"border:none;border-top:solid #E1E1E1 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0=
in 0in">
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><b><span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt">From:</span></b><=
span style=3D"font-size:11.0pt"> Lsr &lt;<a href=3D"mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.=
org">lsr-bounces@ietf.org</a>&gt;
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Acee Lindem (acee)<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, April 23, 2018 6:43 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href=3D"mailto:lsr@ietf.org">lsr@ietf.org</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> [Lsr] LSR Working Group Secretary<o:p></o:p></span></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">All, <o:p></o:p></sp=
an></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">I=E2=80=99m delighte=
d to announce that Yingzhen Qu has volunteered to take on the role of WG sec=
retary. Yingzhen took the minutes at the first formal meeting of the LSR WG i=
n London and is also RTG WG secretary.
<o:p></o:p></span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt"><o:p>&nbsp;</o:p></s=
pan></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">Thanks,<o:p></o:p></=
span></p>
<p class=3D"MsoNormal"><span style=3D"font-size:16.0pt">Acee<o:p></o:p></spa=
n></p>
</div>
</div>


</div></blockquote><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><span>____________________=
___________________________</span><br><span>Lsr mailing list</span><br><span=
><a href=3D"mailto:Lsr@ietf.org">Lsr@ietf.org</a></span><br><span><a href=3D=
"https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr">https://www.ietf.org/mailman/lis=
tinfo/lsr</a></span><br></div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>
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To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>
Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/hPR7fgIcnu-D052hNPFAa0VzYNM>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Support as co-author

Regards,
Jeff

> On Apr 23, 2018, at 07:02, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> wrote:
>=20
> Hi Folks,
>=20
> We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on
>=20
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension=
s/
>=20
> as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG last=
 call last year. Here's the diff.
>   https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-exte=
nsions-12&url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
>=20
> Will end Monday May 7th.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Chris.
>=20
> (*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in London. :=
)
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr-ads@ietf.org" <lsr-ads@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
Thread-Index: AQHT2wvdNYXd1FQ5GU6peErl1wWLQKQPMcXQ
Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 02:34:37 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Hi Chris,

I had shared some comments and requests for clarifications on the OSPF MSD =
draft. Some of them are also applicable to the ISIS version. Please find th=
e same attached.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Christian Hopps
Sent: 23 April 2018 19:33
To: lsr@ietf.org
Cc: lsr-chairs@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; chopps@chopps.org
Subject: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-=
16

Hi Folks,

We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensio=
ns/

as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG last =
call last year. Here's the diff.
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-ext=
ensions-12&url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16

Will end Monday May 7th.

Thanks,
Chris.

(*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in London. :)

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr

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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Subject: RE: LSR WG Last Call for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using
 OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Last Call for "Signaling MSD (Maximum SID Depth) using
 OSPF" - draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd-10.txt
Thread-Index: AQHTzUETs42zzUGpBkCsVN6fOMVtjqP88MKQ
Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2018 12:04:07 +0000
References: <AEAFF7C7-29D3-4812-9BA9-545946E66A2F@cisco.com>
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
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Thread-Topic: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 03:37:33 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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From: "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr-ads@ietf.org" <lsr-ads@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 04:46:04 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Please ignore my email below, it is not applicable to the ISIS SR draft in =
subject.

I support draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions progressing further.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)=20
Sent: 24 April 2018 08:04
To: 'Christian Hopps' <chopps@chopps.org>; lsr@ietf.org
Cc: lsr-chairs@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org
Subject: RE: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensi=
ons-16

Hi Chris,

I had shared some comments and requests for clarifications on the OSPF MSD =
draft. Some of them are also applicable to the ISIS version. Please find th=
e same attached.

Thanks,
Ketan

-----Original Message-----
From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of Christian Hopps
Sent: 23 April 2018 19:33
To: lsr@ietf.org
Cc: lsr-chairs@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; chopps@chopps.org
Subject: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-=
16

Hi Folks,

We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensio=
ns/

as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG last =
call last year. Here's the diff.
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-ext=
ensions-12&url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16

Will end Monday May 7th.

Thanks,
Chris.

(*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in London. :)

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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From: Lizhenbin <lizhenbin@huawei.com>
To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr-chairs@ietf.org" <lsr-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr-ads@ietf.org" <lsr-ads@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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Support.

Best Regards,
Zhenbin (Robin)



-----Original Message-----
From: Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] On Behalf Of Christian Hopps
Sent: Monday, April 23, 2018 10:03 PM
To: lsr@ietf.org
Cc: lsr-chairs@ietf.org; lsr-ads@ietf.org; chopps@chopps.org
Subject: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-=
16

Hi Folks,

We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on

  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensio=
ns/

as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG last =
call last year. Here's the diff.
    https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-ext=
ensions-12&url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16

Will end Monday May 7th.

Thanks,
Chris.

(*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in London. :)

_______________________________________________
Lsr mailing list
Lsr@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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To: Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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From: Ahmed Bashandy <abashandy.ietf@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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support at a co-author


Ahmed



On 4/23/18 7:02 AM, Christian Hopps wrote:
> Hi Folks,
>
> We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on
>
>  https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions/ 
>
>
> as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG 
> last call last year. Here's the diff.
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-12&url2=draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
>
> Will end Monday May 7th.
>
> Thanks,
> Chris.
>
> (*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in 
> London. :)
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


From nobody Tue Apr 24 13:13:17 2018
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From: Yingzhen Qu <yingzhen.qu@huawei.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
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To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
Cc: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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From: Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>
Organization: Cisco Systems
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 22:56:39 +0200
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Archived-At: <https://mailarchive.ietf.org/arch/msg/lsr/k5oRhAtMuyEMwTvFnSLWRsOEmag>
Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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    Hi Acee,
    this text looks good to me, if other authors do not object I will 
add it to the Backward Compatibility section.

    Do we have other potential changes to discuss before I refresh the 
draft one more time?

---
Anton


On 04/24/18 05:37, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> Hi Anton
> 
> Since the IGP shortcut use case you reference does, in fact, use the TED 
> populated by an instance of one protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3) in an 
> instance of the other protocol (OSPFv3 or OSPFv2), I don’t think we want 
> to say anything about instances in the backward compatibility section. I 
> think we can reduce the text you provided below to:
> 
>              X-AF only requires the head-end and the tail-end of the 
> advertised TE tunnels to support
> 
>              X-AF advertisement and usage as described herein. 
> Intermediate OSPF Routers on the TE
> 
>              tunnel path need not support X-AF functionality.
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
> *Date: *Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 5:29 PM
> *To: *"Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>, 
> "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic 
> Engineering Tunnels
> 
> Hi Anton,
> 
> I guess I see the use case described below as only one of the potential 
> use cases for the X-AF tunnels. It seems that path computation, either 
> head-end or PCE, could also use the dual-stack endpoint information. 
> Note that the OSPF doesn’t establish the LSPs or even advertise the LSPs 
> themselves– it merely populates the TE Database. I know that you know 
> this but you want to assure your text doesn’t imply otherwise. Do you 
> disagree? You can certainly keep this use case but I’d reference RFC 
> 3906 (informational reference) and state that there could alternate use 
> cases. Perhaps, your fellow author Alvaro (of OSPF TTZ fame) could help 
> with some generic text preceding the specific IGP Shortcut use case.
> 
> Let me see if I can massage the backward compatibility text. I’m 
> requested a Routing Directorate review and I’m going to start the LSR WG 
> last call shortly.
> 
> Thanks,
> Acee
> 
> *From: *"Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>
> *Organization: *Cisco Systems
> *Date: *Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:48 PM
> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" 
> <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *Re: OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic 
> Engineering Tunnels
> 
>     Hi Acee,
> 
>     sorry for my slow response.
> 
>     Before answering questions lets establish 'prerequisites' of the 
> problem.
> 
> - Network is dual stack, OSPFv2 is used to route IPv4, OSPFv3 is used to 
> route IPv6
> 
> - TE LSAs are originated as per [RFC3630] and flooded in OSPFv2
> 
> - 'Endpoint' of each MPLS TE tunnel is IPv4 address
> 
> - There is a desire to make OSPFv3 to compute IPv6 routes over TE 
> tunnels - of which OSPFv3 has no topological information
> 
>           >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>           >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the
>     area of local
>           >     IP address?
> 
>              Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area
>     borders are
>          laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that
>     router is
>          ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective
>     this, of
>          course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
> 
>     I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are
>     advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the
>     TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to
>     search all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment
>     model makes sense and I don't think this should be supported.
> 
>     No, TE LSAs are advertised only in OSPFv2.
>     Consider information available to OSPFv3 on tunnel headend router. 
> Endpoint address of TE tunnel is IPv4 address, say 7.7.7.7 (this address 
> is what tunnel tailend router advertises in OSPFv2 TE LSA in the Router 
> Address TLV). OSPFv3 needs to find what router in what area corresponds 
> to router that advertises that TE LSA in OSPFv2.
> 
>     That is, OSPFv3 has no its own TE information and not even a hint to 
> which area may belong the tailend router.
> 
> 
> 
>           >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>     discuss the
>           >     requirements for backward compatibility of the
>     endpoints? Also state
>           >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>     endpoints are
>           >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>     describe the
>           >     behavior if this is not the intension.
> 
>              We can add paragraph saying something like:
>          "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST
>          advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that
>     will
>          perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both
>     tunnel headend
>          and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing
>     XAF
>          routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other
>     routers
>          in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
>     interpret Node
>          Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels
>     signaled
>          by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
>     computation in
>          OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as
>     tunnel
>          endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."
> 
>          Will this text work?
> 
>     I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the
>     perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also,
>     you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single
>     protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and
>     IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to
>     operate both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF
>     LSP - correct?
> 
> But OSPFv2 does not produce IPv6 routes. Both protocols operate in the 
> network:
> 
> - OSPFv2 computes IPv4 routes and distributes TE database
> 
> - OSPFv3 computes IPv6 routes. If TE tunnels provide shortcut to 
> destination then OSPFv3 will point route into the tunnel.
> 
> ---
> 
> Anton
> 
> On 04/07/18 23:06, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
> 
>     Hi Anton,
> 
>     On 4/6/18, 7:33 AM, "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)"
>     <asmirnov@cisco.com><mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com>wrote:
> 
>              Hi Acee,
>              my answers below (I didn't vet them with other authors, so
>     they may
>          express different opinions).
> 
>           >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For
>     example: “OSPF
>           >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
> 
>              Your proposed variant drops two pieces: "Routing with" and
>     "MPLS".
>          Dropping mention to MPLS is fine with me. Dropping "Routing
>     with" seems
>          to me less correct because the draft is about ways to compute
>     routes and
>          not about setting up/managing tunnels.
>              But ultimately I have no strong feelings here and if there
>     is a
>          requirement to shorten document's name then that would be a
>     good candidate.
> 
> 
>           >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC
>     8174
>          version?
> 
>              OK, we will publish new document revision when we agreed on
>     other
>          points.
> 
> 
>           >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>           >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the
>     area of local
>           >     IP address?
> 
>              Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area
>     borders are
>          laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that
>     router is
>          ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective
>     this, of
>          course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
> 
>     I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are
>     advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the
>     TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to
>     search all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment
>     model makes sense and I don't think this should be supported.
> 
> 
>           >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>     discuss the
>           >     requirements for backward compatibility of the
>     endpoints? Also state
>           >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>     endpoints are
>           >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>     describe the
>           >     behavior if this is not the intension.
> 
>              We can add paragraph saying something like:
>          "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers MUST
>          advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that
>     will
>          perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both
>     tunnel headend
>          and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing
>     XAF
>          routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other
>     routers
>          in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
>     interpret Node
>          Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels
>     signaled
>          by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
>     computation in
>          OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as
>     tunnel
>          endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this specification."
> 
>          Will this text work?
> 
>     I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the
>     perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also,
>     you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single
>     protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and
>     IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to
>     operate both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF
>     LSP - correct?
> 
>     Thanks,
>     Acee
> 
> 
>          ---
>          Anton
> 
> 
>          On 04/04/18 20:13, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>          > Hi Anton, Alvaro, and Mike,
>          >
>          > In preparation for WG last call, I have a couple comments.
>          >
>          >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For
>     example: “OSPF
>          >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>          >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC
>     8174 version?
>          >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the X-AF
>          >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area
>     of local
>          >     IP address?
>          >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>     discuss the
>          >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints?
>     Also state
>          >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>     endpoints are
>          >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>     describe the
>          >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>          >
>          > Thanks,
>          >
>          > Acee
>          >
> 
> 
> 
> 


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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
CC: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2018 21:15:21 +0000
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References: <46292A51-A693-4397-9FAF-796B8EBEB28A@cisco.com> <c11491bc-6cd9-3ab7-d58d-0b800423b5fd@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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To: Anton Smirnov <asmirnov@cisco.com>, Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>
Cc: draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org, lsr@ietf.org
References: <46292A51-A693-4397-9FAF-796B8EBEB28A@cisco.com> <c11491bc-6cd9-3ab7-d58d-0b800423b5fd@cisco.com>
From: Michael Barnes <mjbarnes@cisco.com>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic Engineering Tunnels
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I am fine with it as well.

-Michael

On 04/24/2018 01:56 PM, Anton Smirnov wrote:
>     Hi Acee,
>     this text looks good to me, if other authors do not object I will 
> add it to the Backward Compatibility section.
> 
>     Do we have other potential changes to discuss before I refresh the 
> draft one more time?
> 
> ---
> Anton
> 
> 
> On 04/24/18 05:37, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>> Hi Anton
>>
>> Since the IGP shortcut use case you reference does, in fact, use the 
>> TED populated by an instance of one protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3) in an 
>> instance of the other protocol (OSPFv3 or OSPFv2), I don’t think we 
>> want to say anything about instances in the backward compatibility 
>> section. I think we can reduce the text you provided below to:
>>
>>              X-AF only requires the head-end and the tail-end of the 
>> advertised TE tunnels to support
>>
>>              X-AF advertisement and usage as described herein. 
>> Intermediate OSPF Routers on the TE
>>
>>              tunnel path need not support X-AF functionality.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> *From: *Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Acee Lindem 
>> <acee@cisco.com>
>> *Date: *Thursday, April 19, 2018 at 5:29 PM
>> *To: *"Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>, 
>> "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
>> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: [Lsr] OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS 
>> Traffic Engineering Tunnels
>>
>> Hi Anton,
>>
>> I guess I see the use case described below as only one of the 
>> potential use cases for the X-AF tunnels. It seems that path 
>> computation, either head-end or PCE, could also use the dual-stack 
>> endpoint information. Note that the OSPF doesn’t establish the LSPs or 
>> even advertise the LSPs themselves– it merely populates the TE 
>> Database. I know that you know this but you want to assure your text 
>> doesn’t imply otherwise. Do you disagree? You can certainly keep this 
>> use case but I’d reference RFC 3906 (informational reference) and 
>> state that there could alternate use cases. Perhaps, your fellow 
>> author Alvaro (of OSPF TTZ fame) could help with some generic text 
>> preceding the specific IGP Shortcut use case.
>>
>> Let me see if I can massage the backward compatibility text. I’m 
>> requested a Routing Directorate review and I’m going to start the LSR 
>> WG last call shortly.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Acee
>>
>> *From: *"Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)" <asmirnov@cisco.com>
>> *Organization: *Cisco Systems
>> *Date: *Saturday, April 14, 2018 at 6:48 PM
>> *To: *Acee Lindem <acee@cisco.com>, "draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org" 
>> <draft-ietf-ospf-xaf-te@ietf.org>
>> *Cc: *"lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
>> *Subject: *Re: OSPF Routing with Cross-Address Family MPLS Traffic 
>> Engineering Tunnels
>>
>>     Hi Acee,
>>
>>     sorry for my slow response.
>>
>>     Before answering questions lets establish 'prerequisites' of the 
>> problem.
>>
>> - Network is dual stack, OSPFv2 is used to route IPv4, OSPFv3 is used 
>> to route IPv6
>>
>> - TE LSAs are originated as per [RFC3630] and flooded in OSPFv2
>>
>> - 'Endpoint' of each MPLS TE tunnel is IPv4 address
>>
>> - There is a desire to make OSPFv3 to compute IPv6 routes over TE 
>> tunnels - of which OSPFv3 has no topological information
>>
>>           >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk 
>> the X-AF
>>           >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the
>>     area of local
>>           >     IP address?
>>
>>              Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area
>>     borders are
>>          laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that
>>     router is
>>          ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective
>>     this, of
>>          course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
>>
>>     I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are
>>     advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the
>>     TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to
>>     search all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment
>>     model makes sense and I don't think this should be supported.
>>
>>     No, TE LSAs are advertised only in OSPFv2.
>>     Consider information available to OSPFv3 on tunnel headend router. 
>> Endpoint address of TE tunnel is IPv4 address, say 7.7.7.7 (this 
>> address is what tunnel tailend router advertises in OSPFv2 TE LSA in 
>> the Router Address TLV). OSPFv3 needs to find what router in what area 
>> corresponds to router that advertises that TE LSA in OSPFv2.
>>
>>     That is, OSPFv3 has no its own TE information and not even a hint 
>> to which area may belong the tailend router.
>>
>>
>>
>>           >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>>     discuss the
>>           >     requirements for backward compatibility of the
>>     endpoints? Also state
>>           >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>>     endpoints are
>>           >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>>     describe the
>>           >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>>
>>              We can add paragraph saying something like:
>>          "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers 
>> MUST
>>          advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that
>>     will
>>          perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both
>>     tunnel headend
>>          and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing
>>     XAF
>>          routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other
>>     routers
>>          in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
>>     interpret Node
>>          Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels
>>     signaled
>>          by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
>>     computation in
>>          OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as
>>     tunnel
>>          endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this 
>> specification."
>>
>>          Will this text work?
>>
>>     I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the
>>     perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also,
>>     you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single
>>     protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and
>>     IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to
>>     operate both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF
>>     LSP - correct?
>>
>> But OSPFv2 does not produce IPv6 routes. Both protocols operate in the 
>> network:
>>
>> - OSPFv2 computes IPv4 routes and distributes TE database
>>
>> - OSPFv3 computes IPv6 routes. If TE tunnels provide shortcut to 
>> destination then OSPFv3 will point route into the tunnel.
>>
>> ---
>>
>> Anton
>>
>> On 04/07/18 23:06, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>>
>>     Hi Anton,
>>
>>     On 4/6/18, 7:33 AM, "Anton Smirnov (asmirnov)"
>>     <asmirnov@cisco.com><mailto:asmirnov@cisco.com>wrote:
>>
>>              Hi Acee,
>>              my answers below (I didn't vet them with other authors, so
>>     they may
>>          express different opinions).
>>
>>           >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For
>>     example: “OSPF
>>           >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>>
>>              Your proposed variant drops two pieces: "Routing with" and
>>     "MPLS".
>>          Dropping mention to MPLS is fine with me. Dropping "Routing
>>     with" seems
>>          to me less correct because the draft is about ways to compute
>>     routes and
>>          not about setting up/managing tunnels.
>>              But ultimately I have no strong feelings here and if there
>>     is a
>>          requirement to shorten document's name then that would be a
>>     good candidate.
>>
>>
>>           >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC
>>     8174
>>          version?
>>
>>              OK, we will publish new document revision when we agreed on
>>     other
>>          points.
>>
>>
>>           >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk 
>> the X-AF
>>           >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the
>>     area of local
>>           >     IP address?
>>
>>              Idea behind this wording is to cater for cases when area
>>     borders are
>>          laid differently in OSPFv2 and OSPFv3. It's even possible that
>>     router is
>>          ABR in OSPFv2 but not OSPFv3. From network design perspective
>>     this, of
>>          course, is a terrible thing to do - but not impossible.
>>
>>     I guess I still don't understand. Are you implying that you are
>>     advertising TE LSAs using both OSPFv2 and OSPFv3 and aggregating the
>>     TED and since the area boundaries may be different, you need to
>>     search all the areas LSP endpoints? I don't think this deployment
>>     model makes sense and I don't think this should be supported.
>>
>>
>>           >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>>     discuss the
>>           >     requirements for backward compatibility of the
>>     endpoints? Also state
>>           >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>>     endpoints are
>>           >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>>     describe the
>>           >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>>
>>              We can add paragraph saying something like:
>>          "In order for XAF computation to work tunnel tailend routers 
>> MUST
>>          advertise XAF Node Local Address sub-TLVs in OSPF instance that
>>     will
>>          perform XAF computation. Thus only tunnel endpoints (both
>>     tunnel headend
>>          and tailend routers) and only OSPF protocol instance performing
>>     XAF
>>          routing must implement XAF as described in this document. Other
>>     routers
>>          in the network do not need to implement XAF algorithm or
>>     interpret Node
>>          Local Address sub-TLVs. For example, if network uses TE tunnels
>>     signaled
>>          by OSPFv2 [RFC3630] and intends to use cross-AF route
>>     computation in
>>          OSPFv3 then only OSPFv3 implementation on routers that serve as
>>     tunnel
>>          endpoints in OSPFv2 needs to be compliant with this 
>> specification."
>>
>>          Will this text work?
>>
>>     I think this could be a lot clearer if it were written from the
>>     perspective of the head-end router performing the calculation. Also,
>>     you lost me completely with the last sentence. We are uses a single
>>     protocol, OSPFv2 or OSPFv3 to advertise TE LSAs. Since both IPv4 and
>>     IPv6 traffic is tunneled over that LSP, there is no reason to
>>     operate both protocols since traffic will take the path of the X-AF
>>     LSP - correct?
>>
>>     Thanks,
>>     Acee
>>
>>
>>          ---
>>          Anton
>>
>>
>>          On 04/04/18 20:13, Acee Lindem (acee) wrote:
>>          > Hi Anton, Alvaro, and Mike,
>>          >
>>          > In preparation for WG last call, I have a couple comments.
>>          >
>>          >  1. Have you considered a shorter name for the RFC? For
>>     example: “OSPF
>>          >     Cross Address Family Traffic Engineering Tunnels”?
>>          >  2. Can you change the requirements language text to the RFC
>>     8174 version?
>>          >  3. In the section 3 mapping algorithm, why do you walk the 
>> X-AF
>>          >     endpoints from all connected areas? Why not just the area
>>     of local
>>          >     IP address?
>>          >  4. In the backward compatibility section, can you also
>>     discuss the
>>          >     requirements for backward compatibility of the endpoints?
>>     Also state
>>          >     that the X-AF tunnel will not be recognized unless the
>>     endpoints are
>>          >     advertised by the same protocol (OSPFv2 or OSPFv3); or
>>     describe the
>>          >     behavior if this is not the intension.
>>          >
>>          > Thanks,
>>          >
>>          > Acee
>>          >
>>
>>
>>
>>
> .
> 


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 19:16:44 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2018 20:34:23 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] LSR WG Adoption call for "IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions" - draft-ginsberg-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
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A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : IS-IS Traffic Engineering (TE) Metric Extensions
        Authors         : Les Ginsberg
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Spencer Giacolone
                          Dave Ward
                          John Drake
                          Qin Wu
	Filename        : draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00.txt
	Pages           : 19
	Date            : 2018-04-25

Abstract:
   In certain networks, such as, but not limited to, financial
   information networks (e.g., stock market data providers), network-
   performance criteria (e.g., latency) are becoming as critical to
   data-path selection as other metrics.

   This document describes extensions to IS-IS Traffic Engineering
   Extensions (RFC 5305) such that network-performance information can
   be distributed and collected in a scalable fashion.  The information
   distributed using IS-IS TE Metric Extensions can then be used to make
   path-selection decisions based on network performance.

   Note that this document only covers the mechanisms with which
   network-performance information is distributed.  The mechanisms for
   measuring network performance or acting on that information, once
   distributed, are outside the scope of this document.

   This document obsoletes RFC 7810.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-lsr-isis-rfc7810bis-00


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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--_000_06CF729DA0D6854E8C1E5121AC3330DF9E0A5D2ANKGEML515MBXchi_--


From nobody Thu Apr 26 02:52:02 2018
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Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2018 11:51:56 +0200
From: Peter Psenak <ppsenak@cisco.com>
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To: Huzhibo <huzhibo@huawei.com>, "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] Hi, Here are some clarification questions about the flex-algo draft.
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Hi ZhiBo

On 26/04/18 09:50 , Huzhibo wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Here are some clarification questions about the flex-algo draft.
>
> 1. As described in section 5, in path computation for a flex-algorithm,
> the node firstly needs to prune the links not included for this
> flex-algorithm, then run SPF or other algorithm within the pruned
> topology. If a node supports multiple algorithms, does this mean the
> node needs to maintain multiple pruned topologies?

no, there is no need to maintain any additional topologies for Flex-algo 
functionality.

There is however a need to run multiple SPFs, one for each Flex-algo in 
which the calculating node participates.

>
> 2. If one path computed in algorithm-1 with latency metric and another
> path computed in algorithm-2 with bandwidth metric traverse the same
> link(s) in the network, can the latency or bandwidth SLA be guaranteed
> for the service? Or the path may need to be re-computed and adjusted to
> another link to avoid potential performance degradation?

above depends on how you define you Flex-algo 1 and 2 respectively. If 
you define it in a way that they may share links, they may impact each 
other. If you define in in a way that they would never share any link, 
they would not impact each other. You choose the behavior you need - 
that's the beauty of the Flex-algo solution.

thanks,
Peter

>
> ZhiBo Hu
>
> *发件人:*Lsr [mailto:lsr-bounces@ietf.org] *代表 *Acee Lindem (acee)
> *发送时间:*2018年4月17日22:44
> *收件人:*lsr@ietf.org
> *主题:*[Lsr] LSR Working Group Adoption Poll for Flex Algorithm Drafts
>
> This begins a two-week adoption poll for the following Flex Algorithm
> drafts:
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-hegdeppsenak-isis-sr-flex-algo/
>
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ppsenak-ospf-sr-flex-algo/
>
> The adoption poll will end at 12:00 AM EST on May 2^nd , 2018. Please
> indicate your support of opposition of the drafts.
>
> Additionally, the authors are amenable to combining the drafts into a
> single draft. If you have an opinion, please state that as well.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Acee
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr
>


From nobody Fri Apr 27 14:45:59 2018
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Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04.txt
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X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2018 21:45:58 -0000

A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts directories.
This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.

        Title           : IS-IS TE Attributes per application
        Authors         : Les Ginsberg
                          Peter Psenak
                          Stefano Previdi
                          Wim Henderickx
                          John Drake
	Filename        : draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04.txt
	Pages           : 17
	Date            : 2018-04-27

Abstract:
   Existing traffic engineering related link attribute advertisements
   have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  In cases
   where multiple applications wish to make use of these link attributes
   the current advertisements do not support application specific values
   for a given attribute nor do they support indication of which
   applications are using the advertised value for a given link.

   This draft introduces new link attribute advertisements which address
   both of these shortcomings.  It also discusses backwards
   compatibility issues and how to minimize duplicate advertisements in
   the presence of routers which do not support the extensions defined
   in this document.



The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-te-app/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/


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From: "Les Ginsberg (ginsberg)" <ginsberg@cisco.com>
To: "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>
Thread-Topic: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04.txt
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This version contains corrections/clarifications to the IANA section which =
were identified during the recent early allocation of codepoints process.

    Les


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Lsr <lsr-bounces@ietf.org> On Behalf Of internet-drafts@ietf.org
> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2018 2:46 PM
> To: i-d-announce@ietf.org
> Cc: lsr@ietf.org
> Subject: [Lsr] I-D Action: draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04.txt
>=20
>=20
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts direct=
ories.
> This draft is a work item of the Link State Routing WG of the IETF.
>=20
>         Title           : IS-IS TE Attributes per application
>         Authors         : Les Ginsberg
>                           Peter Psenak
>                           Stefano Previdi
>                           Wim Henderickx
>                           John Drake
> 	Filename        : draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04.txt
> 	Pages           : 17
> 	Date            : 2018-04-27
>=20
> Abstract:
>    Existing traffic engineering related link attribute advertisements
>    have been defined and are used in RSVP-TE deployments.  In cases
>    where multiple applications wish to make use of these link attributes
>    the current advertisements do not support application specific values
>    for a given attribute nor do they support indication of which
>    applications are using the advertised value for a given link.
>=20
>    This draft introduces new link attribute advertisements which address
>    both of these shortcomings.  It also discusses backwards
>    compatibility issues and how to minimize duplicate advertisements in
>    the presence of routers which do not support the extensions defined
>    in this document.
>=20
>=20
>=20
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-te-app/
>=20
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-isis-te-app-04
>=20
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-te-app-04
>=20
>=20
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submiss=
ion
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
>=20
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


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Subject: Re: [Lsr] WG Last Call for draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
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support.

s.


> On Apr 23, 2018, at 4:02 PM, Christian Hopps <chopps@chopps.org> =
wrote:
>=20
> Hi Folks,
>=20
> We are starting a new 2 week WG last call on
>=20
> =
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extension=
s/
>=20
> as there have (*) been some changes to the document since our last WG =
last call last year. Here's the diff.
>   =
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url1=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extens=
ions-12&url2=3Ddraft-ietf-isis-segment-routing-extensions-16
>=20
> Will end Monday May 7th.
>=20
> Thanks,
> Chris.
>=20
> (*) contrary to what you may have heard from folks at the mic in =
London. :)
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Lsr mailing list
> Lsr@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/lsr


From nobody Sun Apr 29 04:08:13 2018
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From: Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2018 14:08:07 +0300
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+ LSR mailing list.

Cheers,
Tal.

On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Hello
>
> I have been selected to do a routing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D =
review of this
> draft.
> =E2=80=8Bhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing=
-msd/
>
> The routing directorate will, on request from the working group chair,
> perform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of a draft before it is submitt=
ed for publication
> to the IESG. The early review can be performed at any time during the
> draft=E2=80=99s lifetime as a working group document.
>
> For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8B
> http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>
> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd.txt
> Reviewer: Tal Mizrahi
> Review Date: April 2018
> Intended Status: Standards Track
>
> *Summary:*
> This document is basically ready for publication, but has a couple of
> issues and a few nits that should be considered prior to being submitted =
to
> the IESG.
>
> *Comments:*
>
>    - The Security Considerations should be more detailed. The reference
>    to RFC 7770 is a good start, but please add more details about potenti=
al
>    attacks. For example, what happens if there is a spoofed MSD with a lo=
w MSD
>    value? What is the impact of such an attack?
>    - Section 3:
>       - The description of the Length field says =E2=80=9Cminimum of 2=E2=
=80=9D, implying
>       it can be higher than 2.
>       On the other hand, the Value field: =E2=80=9Cconsists of a 1 octet =
sub-type
>       (IANA Registry) and 1 octet value.=E2=80=9D, which implies that the=
 Length is equal
>       to 2.
>       Please align the two descriptions, i.e., if flexibility for future
>       sub-types is required, please change the description of Value to al=
low
>       longer values.
>       - The comment applies to Section 4 as well.
>
> *Nits:*
>
>    - The term =E2=80=9Cminimum MSD=E2=80=9D, which translates to =E2=80=
=9Cminimum maximum SID
>    Depth=E2=80=9D should be explained.
>    - The term =E2=80=9Cmaximum MSD=E2=80=9D appears twice in the document=
, which seems
>    either redundant, or a typo (did you mean minimum MSD?).
>    - The acronym SID should be spelled out on its first use.
>    - The acronyms RI and LSA should be added to the Terminology
>    subsection.
>    - Section 1.1.1 and Section 2 are both titled =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=
=80=9D. It would
>    be best to merge Section 1.1 into Section 2, and avoid the duplicate t=
itle.
>    - =E2=80=9Ceach node/link a given SR path=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9Ceach no=
de/link of a given SR
>    path=E2=80=9D
>    - =E2=80=9Cnodes and links which has been configured=E2=80=9D -> =E2=
=80=9Cnodes and links that
>    have been configured=E2=80=9D
>    - =E2=80=9Claso=E2=80=9D->=E2=80=9Dalso=E2=80=9D
>    - =E2=80=9COther Sub-types other than defined=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9CSub=
-types other than
>    defined=E2=80=9D
>
>
>
> Cheers,
> Tal Mizrahi.
>

--000000000000839116056afac095
Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<div dir=3D"ltr">+ LSR mailing list.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>T=
al.</div><div class=3D"gmail_extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, =
Apr 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Tal Mizrahi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailt=
o:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" target=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com</a=
>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 =
0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">


















<p style=3D"background:white;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12p=
t;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Hello<span></span></span></=
p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-col=
or:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">I have been selected to do a=
 routing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of
this draft.=C2=A0<br>
<a style=3D"color:blue;text-decoration:underline"><span class=3D"m_30421019=
95271386572gmail-icon"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rg=
b(187,0,0);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"background-position:0% 50%"=
>=E2=80=8B</span></span></span><span style=3D"color:rgb(187,0,0)">https://d=
atatracker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(187,0,0);text-=
decoration:none">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-<wbr>routing-msd</span><span style=
=3D"color:rgb(187,0,0)">/</span></a><span></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-col=
or:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The routing directorate will=
, on request from the working group
chair, perform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of a draft before it is su=
bmitted for
publication to the IESG. The early review can be performed at any time duri=
ng
the draft=E2=80=99s lifetime as a working group document. <span></span></sp=
an></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12p=
t;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:1=
0pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">For more information about =
the Routing Directorate, please
see=C2=A0<a href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir" s=
tyle=3D"color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank"><span class=
=3D"m_3042101995271386572gmail-icon"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-=
serif;color:rgb(187,0,0);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"background-po=
sition:0% 50%">=E2=80=8B</span></span></span><span style=3D"color:rgb(187,0=
,0)">http://trac.tools.ietf.<wbr>org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</span></a><s=
pan></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-col=
or:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10=
pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Document: draft-ietf-ospf-se=
gment-<wbr>routing-msd.txt=C2=A0<br>
Reviewer: Tal Mizrahi<br>
Review Date: April 2018=C2=A0<br>
Intended Status: Standards Track<span></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-col=
or:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><strong><span style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Summary:</span></str=
ong><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:blac=
k">=C2=A0<br>
This document is basically ready for publication, but has a couple of issue=
s
and a few nits that should be considered prior to being submitted to the IE=
SG.<span></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12p=
t;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><strong><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Comments:</span></s=
trong><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:bl=
ack"><span></span></span></p>

<ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:=
normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-bottom:0cm">
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The Security
     Considerations should be more detailed. The reference to RFC 7770 is a
     good start, but please add more details about potential attacks. For
     example, what happens if there is a spoofed MSD with a low MSD value? =
What
     is the impact of such an attack?<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Section 3:<span></span></span=
></li>
 <ul type=3D"circle" style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm">
  <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The description
      of the Length field says =E2=80=9Cminimum of 2=E2=80=9D, implying it =
can be higher than 2.<br>
      On the other hand, the Value field: =E2=80=9Cconsists of a 1 octet su=
b-type (IANA
      Registry) and 1 octet value.=E2=80=9D, which implies that the Length =
is equal to
      2.<br>
      Please align the two descriptions, i.e., if flexibility for future
      sub-types is required, please change the description of Value to allo=
w
      longer values.<span></span></span></li>
  <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm =
0cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"=
font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The comment applies to Secti=
on 4 as well.<span></span></span></li>
 </ul>
</ul>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-cap=
s:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-col=
or:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><strong><span style=3D"font=
-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Nits:</span></strong=
><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">=
<span></span></span></p>

<ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:=
normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-bottom:0cm">
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The term =E2=80=9Cminimum
     MSD=E2=80=9D, which translates to =E2=80=9Cminimum maximum SID Depth=
=E2=80=9D should be explained.<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The term =E2=80=9Cmaximum
     MSD=E2=80=9D appears twice in the document, which seems either redunda=
nt, or a
     typo (did you mean minimum MSD?).<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The acronym
     SID should be spelled out on its first use.<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The acronyms
     RI and LSA should be added to the Terminology subsection.<span></span>=
</span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Section 1.1.1
     and Section 2 are both titled =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D. It would =
be best to merge
     Section 1.1 into Section 2, and avoid the duplicate title.<span></span=
></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9Ceach
     node/link a given SR path=E2=80=9D -&gt; =E2=80=9Ceach node/link of a =
given SR path=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9Cnodes and
     links which has been configured=E2=80=9D -&gt; =E2=80=9Cnodes and link=
s that have been
     configured=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9Claso=E2=80=9D-&gt;=
=E2=80=9Dalso=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"f=
ont-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9COther
     Sub-types other than defined=E2=80=9D -&gt; =E2=80=9CSub-types other t=
han defined=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
</ul>





<div><br></div><br><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tal Mizrahi.</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>

--000000000000839116056afac095--


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Hi Tal,

Many thanks for your review!
Coming week I=E2=80=99ll be working to address them as well as on earlier co=
mments provided by Ketan.=20
Should be done by the end of the week.

Regards,
Jeff

> On Apr 29, 2018, at 04:08, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com> wrote:
>=20
> + LSR mailing list.
>=20
> Cheers,
> Tal.
>=20
>> On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com> w=
rote:
>> Hello
>>=20
>> I have been selected to do a routing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D r=
eview of this draft.=20
>> =E2=80=8Bhttps://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing=
-msd/
>>=20
>> The routing directorate will, on request from the working group chair, pe=
rform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of a draft before it is submitted fo=
r publication to the IESG. The early review can be performed at any time dur=
ing the draft=E2=80=99s lifetime as a working group document.
>>=20
>> For more information about the Routing Directorate, please see =E2=80=8Bh=
ttp://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir
>>=20
>> Document: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd.txt=20
>> Reviewer: Tal Mizrahi
>> Review Date: April 2018=20
>> Intended Status: Standards Track
>>=20
>> Summary:=20
>> This document is basically ready for publication, but has a couple of iss=
ues and a few nits that should be considered prior to being submitted to the=
 IESG.
>>=20
>> Comments:
>>=20
>> The Security Considerations should be more detailed. The reference to RFC=
 7770 is a good start, but please add more details about potential attacks. =
For example, what happens if there is a spoofed MSD with a low MSD value? Wh=
at is the impact of such an attack?
>> Section 3:
>> The description of the Length field says =E2=80=9Cminimum of 2=E2=80=9D, i=
mplying it can be higher than 2.
>> On the other hand, the Value field: =E2=80=9Cconsists of a 1 octet sub-ty=
pe (IANA Registry) and 1 octet value.=E2=80=9D, which implies that the Lengt=
h is equal to 2.
>> Please align the two descriptions, i.e., if flexibility for future sub-ty=
pes is required, please change the description of Value to allow longer valu=
es.
>> The comment applies to Section 4 as well.
>> Nits:
>>=20
>> The term =E2=80=9Cminimum MSD=E2=80=9D, which translates to =E2=80=9Cmini=
mum maximum SID Depth=E2=80=9D should be explained.
>> The term =E2=80=9Cmaximum MSD=E2=80=9D appears twice in the document, whi=
ch seems either redundant, or a typo (did you mean minimum MSD?).
>> The acronym SID should be spelled out on its first use.
>> The acronyms RI and LSA should be added to the Terminology subsection.
>> Section 1.1.1 and Section 2 are both titled =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D=
. It would be best to merge Section 1.1 into Section 2, and avoid the duplic=
ate title.
>> =E2=80=9Ceach node/link a given SR path=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9Ceach node/li=
nk of a given SR path=E2=80=9D
>> =E2=80=9Cnodes and links which has been configured=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9Cn=
odes and links that have been configured=E2=80=9D
>> =E2=80=9Claso=E2=80=9D->=E2=80=9Dalso=E2=80=9D
>> =E2=80=9COther Sub-types other than defined=E2=80=9D -> =E2=80=9CSub-type=
s other than defined=E2=80=9D
>>=20
>>=20
>> Cheers,
>> Tal Mizrahi.
>=20

--Apple-Mail-C80D7328-BDEB-4396-9F0F-33CB6D0E3B36
Content-Type: text/html;
	charset=utf-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

<html><head><meta http-equiv=3D"content-type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3D=
utf-8"></head><body dir=3D"auto">Hi Tal,<div><br></div><div>Many thanks for y=
our review!</div><div>Coming week I=E2=80=99ll be working to address them as=
 well as on earlier comments provided by Ketan.&nbsp;</div><div>Should be do=
ne by the end of the week.<br><br><div id=3D"AppleMailSignature">Regards,<di=
v>Jeff</div></div><div><br>On Apr 29, 2018, at 04:08, Tal Mizrahi &lt;<a hre=
f=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com</a>&gt; wro=
te:<br><br></div><blockquote type=3D"cite"><div><div dir=3D"ltr">+ LSR maili=
ng list.<div><br></div><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tal.</div><div class=3D"gmail_=
extra"><br><div class=3D"gmail_quote">On Sun, Apr 29, 2018 at 2:04 PM, Tal M=
izrahi <span dir=3D"ltr">&lt;<a href=3D"mailto:tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com" ta=
rget=3D"_blank">tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com</a>&gt;</span> wrote:<br><blockquo=
te class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc sol=
id;padding-left:1ex"><div dir=3D"ltr">


















<p style=3D"background:white;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Hello<span></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps=
:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">I have been selected to do a rout=
ing directorate =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of
this draft.&nbsp;<br>
<a style=3D"color:blue;text-decoration:underline"><span class=3D"m_304210199=
5271386572gmail-icon"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-serif;color:rgb(=
187,0,0);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"background-position:0% 50%">=E2=
=80=8B</span></span></span><span style=3D"color:rgb(187,0,0)">https://datatr=
acker.ietf.org/<wbr>doc/</span><span style=3D"color:rgb(187,0,0);text-decora=
tion:none">draft-ietf-ospf-segment-<wbr>routing-msd</span><span style=3D"col=
or:rgb(187,0,0)">/</span></a><span></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps=
:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">The routing directorate will, on r=
equest from the working group
chair, perform an =E2=80=9Cearly=E2=80=9D review of a draft before it is sub=
mitted for
publication to the IESG. The early review can be performed at any time durin=
g
the draft=E2=80=99s lifetime as a working group document. <span></span></spa=
n></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10p=
t;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">For more information about the=
 Routing Directorate, please
see&nbsp;<a href=3D"http://trac.tools.ietf.org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir" st=
yle=3D"color:blue;text-decoration:underline" target=3D"_blank"><span class=3D=
"m_3042101995271386572gmail-icon"><span style=3D"font-family:Arial,sans-seri=
f;color:rgb(187,0,0);text-decoration:none"><span style=3D"background-positio=
n:0% 50%">=E2=80=8B</span></span></span><span style=3D"color:rgb(187,0,0)">h=
ttp://trac.tools.ietf.<wbr>org/area/rtg/trac/wiki/RtgDir</span></a><span></s=
pan></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps=
:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;f=
ont-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Document: draft-ietf-ospf-segment=
-<wbr>routing-msd.txt&nbsp;<br>
Reviewer: Tal Mizrahi<br>
Review Date: April 2018&nbsp;<br>
Intended Status: Standards Track<span></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps=
:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><strong><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Summary:</span></strong><=
span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">&nb=
sp;<br>
This document is basically ready for publication, but has a couple of issues=

and a few nits that should be considered prior to being submitted to the IES=
G.<span></span></span></p>

<p style=3D"background:white;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt=
;font-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><strong><span style=3D"font-=
size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Comments:</span></stro=
ng><span style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"=
><span></span></span></p>

<ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:n=
ormal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:i=
nitial;word-spacing:0px;margin-bottom:0cm">
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The Security
     Considerations should be more detailed. The reference to RFC 7770 is a
     good start, but please add more details about potential attacks. For
     example, what happens if there is a spoofed MSD with a low MSD value? W=
hat
     is the impact of such an attack?<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Section 3:<span></span></span></=
li>
 <ul type=3D"circle" style=3D"margin-bottom:0cm">
  <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The description
      of the Length field says =E2=80=9Cminimum of 2=E2=80=9D, implying it c=
an be higher than 2.<br>
      On the other hand, the Value field: =E2=80=9Cconsists of a 1 octet sub=
-type (IANA
      Registry) and 1 octet value.=E2=80=9D, which implies that the Length i=
s equal to
      2.<br>
      Please align the two descriptions, i.e., if flexibility for future
      sub-types is required, please change the description of Value to allow=

      longer values.<span></span></span></li>
  <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0=
cm 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fo=
nt-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The comment applies to Section 4=
 as well.<span></span></span></li>
 </ul>
</ul>

<p style=3D"background:white;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps=
:normal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color=
:initial;word-spacing:0px;margin-right:0cm;margin-left:0cm;font-size:12pt;fo=
nt-family:&quot;Times New Roman&quot;,serif"><strong><span style=3D"font-siz=
e:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black">Nits:</span></strong><spa=
n style=3D"font-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif;color:black"><span>=
</span></span></p>

<ul type=3D"disc" style=3D"font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:n=
ormal;text-align:start;text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:i=
nitial;word-spacing:0px;margin-bottom:0cm">
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The term =E2=80=9Cminimum
     MSD=E2=80=9D, which translates to =E2=80=9Cminimum maximum SID Depth=E2=
=80=9D should be explained.<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The term =E2=80=9Cmaximum
     MSD=E2=80=9D appears twice in the document, which seems either redundan=
t, or a
     typo (did you mean minimum MSD?).<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The acronym
     SID should be spelled out on its first use.<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">The acronyms
     RI and LSA should be added to the Terminology subsection.<span></span><=
/span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">Section 1.1.1
     and Section 2 are both titled =E2=80=9CTerminology=E2=80=9D. It would b=
e best to merge
     Section 1.1 into Section 2, and avoid the duplicate title.<span></span>=
</span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9Ceach
     node/link a given SR path=E2=80=9D -&gt; =E2=80=9Ceach node/link of a g=
iven SR path=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9Cnodes and
     links which has been configured=E2=80=9D -&gt; =E2=80=9Cnodes and links=
 that have been
     configured=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9Claso=E2=80=9D-&gt;=E2=80=
=9Dalso=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
 <li class=3D"MsoNormal" style=3D"color:black;background:white;margin:0cm 0c=
m 0.0001pt;font-size:11pt;font-family:Calibri,sans-serif"><span style=3D"fon=
t-size:10pt;font-family:Verdana,sans-serif">=E2=80=9COther
     Sub-types other than defined=E2=80=9D -&gt; =E2=80=9CSub-types other th=
an defined=E2=80=9D<span></span></span></li>
</ul>





<div><br></div><br><div>Cheers,</div><div>Tal Mizrahi.</div></div>
</blockquote></div><br></div></div>
</div></blockquote></div></body></html>=

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From: "Acee Lindem (acee)" <acee@cisco.com>
To: Jeff Tantsura <jefftant.ietf@gmail.com>, Tal Mizrahi <tal.mizrahi.phd@gmail.com>
CC: "draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org" <draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd@ietf.org>, "ospf-chairs@ietf.org" <ospf-chairs@ietf.org>, "lsr@ietf.org" <lsr@ietf.org>, "rtg-dir@ietf.org" <rtg-dir@ietf.org>, "rtg-ads@ietf.org" <rtg-ads@ietf.org>, "Ketan Talaulikar (ketant)" <ketant@cisco.com>
Thread-Topic: RtgDir Early review: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd.txt
Thread-Index: AQHT36nN6o1KN0Oydk+ebtPVYwdCT6QX2G6AgAE2GICAACCYgA==
Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2018 11:34:40 +0000
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Subject: Re: [Lsr] RtgDir Early review: draft-ietf-ospf-segment-routing-msd.txt
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